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I found a gaff in TGS's episode "The Tain" In "The Hound of Ulster" Rory's father says that "there's only one place like that around here, Cuchulain's tomb". Since Cuchulain lived and died in Ulster, it makes sense that he would have had to be buried there. What used to be called the province of Ulster is now called Northern Ireland. However, in the Tain, it shows Rory in around Dublin. Shouldn't he be in Belfast or some other place in Northern Ireland?
Terry D.
Friday, June 12, 1998 at 01:44:56 AM
IP: avro39.sk.sympatico.ca
Not to downtrodden you TGS artists, but wouldn't the Elisa picture look better on the comment room if the outlining grey background had a glowing effect like Sata's picture does, and possibly a color that befits the overall color theme of the piece, possibly the red in the highlights of the velvet dress or a slightly darker shade/tint of it. Although maybe the picture would look more appealing if just the "cookie-cutter" background were changed to the glowing effect of Sata's picture. You can decide.
Lady Mystic
Friday, June 12, 1998 at 12:23:07 AM
IP: 170-100-232.ipt.aol.com
I ALWAYS sing that "Green Tea" song!
(Today the chat room, tomorrow the WORLD, and next week, that diner down the street that makes the BEST burgers in town!)
Fire Storm
Friday, June 12, 1998 at 12:10:13 AM
IP: 170-100-232.ipt.aol.com
**LAUGHING** I've just read Fire Storm's post again. I can't tell you how much that makes me laugh! Maybe it's just me (and a few others here), but I find his sense of humor sometimes toxically funny! Maybe it's just me. :D Reads it again. **LAUGHS AGAIN**
Friday, June 12, 1998 at 12:07:07 AM
IP: 170-100-232.ipt.aol.com
As to the fate of Meryt, I always got this inppression that whatever happens or happened to her was predetermined (at least in Phoenix Gate science that was mention on the site on s8 or was it Avalon?). So that she had her own future that wasn't fully determined by Brooklyn and the Gate. And I don't think it makes any difference if Meryt and Sata run into each other or not. Sata has him now and Meryt wasn't in Brooklyn's life long enough to be a major importance to him for , even if she may have been his first time or at least a "girlfriend". Besides, Meryt seemed to be dealing with the loner role of life. I like her, she's got that attractive life of an adventurer/loner appeal that Brooklyn has. Besides, instead of the Meryt and Sata issue, shouldn't we be more worried about the incident between Sata and the gargoyle in Requiem who had a crush on Brooklyn? The female gargoyle that Demona had a hand in convincing to do something that made Sata mad. I think that issue is more important and is a more "foggy" topic. Hey jackal, I still say that quote is a good motto. Anyways every species is a hypocrite at times, and so are the gargoyles. Saying they don't take up human practices when they have adopted so many makes me spit when I here it. So I say let them be hypocrites some more and use that motto on the humans, even if they won't use it on their own kind. The Ask Greg page is available on the s8 (Station 8) web site. There's other interesting stuff there too. Plus a comment room that many of us TGS CR regulars go to. Here's the address: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/
In Dark Ages, what do you think becomes of Ian? I think he could be the Magus in later years. If not him, then someone who looks down upon his past. Doesn't the Magus display some of those feelings through his actions, basically with how he deals with people. There is a part of him that's...I can't describe it exactly...closed, always inwardly trying to prove himself to people and subconciously to himself. He seems to hold up this invisible barrior between himself and others, not wanting to get hurt again. So couldn't Ian be the Magus in the future? It seems like we haven't seen the last of him. And didn't the Magus say that the Archmage was once his teacher, and wasn't it indicated that the Archmage never finished teaching the Magus? (Although, maybe his abrupt end of teaching came about with his own banishment - speaking of the Archmage, not the Magus.) That's why the Magus never mastered spells fully. I can't remember details associated with Ian on this matter, so sorry if I'm wrong.
Dearborn, MI USA
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 11:59:22 PM
IP: 170-100-232.ipt.aol.com
Jackel> The Ask Greg can be found at Station 8. All I ever do is call up the link page and follow it from 
Shauntell> I tried to be gentle, because in truth I
only know its shouting to use the all cap key because
of my lurking. I do remember thatgown. I also love
the hot pink number she wore when spying on the Howl.
there.
Bedtime kids. (I really, really mean it this time)
Starsinger
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 11:52:34 PM
IP: proxy-114.iap.bryant.webtv.net
<<Master Greg>>
Where is this "Ask Greg" place? Yeah, i'm kinda new here..., and hey.., I've said dumber things other than the "stone" comment!! Just look at Sata!!
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 11:46:23 PM
IP: ww-tq06.proxy.aol.com
Sorry about that. Must not have realized that the caps were on... ( trust me I wasn't yelling at you. Not intentionally anyway. ) Anyway, I like that dress too. Have you ever read from the ElfQues books? That dress looks just like one that a character named Leetah weres. Only in that comic it was green. Also I was going to say that Asrial should not say that she does not love Goliath. It is quite obvious that they do love each other. Or... does she say that because she some how chages? I remeber that yesterday you were saying some things along those lines, but maybee I misunderstood them. It's also sad that Demona might be the one who kills her. If GOliath ever found out about that it would brake his heart. He seems like such a cutie as a teen ( he's still cute as an adult, very handsome, but anyway... )
OH yeah!! I was going to ask if you were wanting to bring Atalanta back? I loved that story " Coming of Age ", it was cool. I think it was funny too how Atalanta said that Goliath was handsome, it's quite obvious that he is but... ( Did Disney plan it that way? ) :-) Will she be invovled with Goliath or Asrial in any way? I think it would be good that way, after all she seems to have it in for them in particular. Also, I heard an idea from another guy ( or girl) that you should somehow make it that Asrial gets sent into the future instead of being killed, and maybe winds up back in the clan. But, loose the idea of Asrial and Lexington... no offense intended...... Of course Goliath and her can not be together, nad she can't be with Brooklyn or Broadway... Hmmm. Have you any plans for a mate for that little guy? I feel kind of bad for him, but I'm a little worried too. Will he and Goliath have a heart to heart? It might help them. Lex realy needs a friend right now, and as a leader Goliath should be the first to extend that friendship. Lexs brothers should also do that, wether or not they have mates. After all the clan means * Family* and they can't abandon that. If anything a loss of that most precious substance will be what causes Lexingtons fall, you know what I mean?
Either way you guys are doing an excellent job. You will do Master Greg and millions of other fans proud. I ha one more question though, not sure if you can answer... ( I may have pointed it the other night but I'm not certain. ) Do you know of a way that I can submitt my own stuff to this page, or any other that is offiated with it? Like I mentioned last night I don't have a scanner, and my closest friend lives in California. Do you have any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks for your time guys and sorry about last night. I honsetly was not yelling at you I promise. I just needed a little info and was trying to make some comments and asking a few questions. This isn't a kiss up or anything, its the truth. I really appreciate what you are trying to do and I'ld like to be part of it. I've sent as many letters as I can ( two) to Disney, but I fear like most of us do that it isn't enough. Hopefully those tides will change though.
Well, I'ld better go. Nice work guys and I am sorry...no offense intended at all to anyone. I just don't get around people much.... See ya.
Shauntell
<kholm@aol.com>
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 11:38:24 PM
IP: spider-wa044.proxy.aol.com
Starsinger came about because while I have no talent I love to listen to music. Mostly filk. The Bed time world. Starsinger
FireStorm > Check Mercedes Lackey Winds trilogy. Book two introduces the character of Firestorm. He
an adept level mage.
legend of the Starsinger is the she has a voice so beautify, she can call the stars from the heavens if
need be. (My little ego trip) Under really bad thoughts to go with your songs. Does anyone remember
Torn between two lovers? When I hear that one lately
all I can thing abouts are the words in reference Elisa telling Goliath about Thailog. Torn between two lovers, feeling like a fool. Loving both of you is breaking all the rules. I know. It's bad, but I
do have a slightly warped sense of humor
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 11:37:15 PM
IP: proxy-114.iap.bryant.webtv.net
Cold Trio?..... Hmmmm, it's better than the Coldy Bunch. Yeah, I'll go along with The Cold Trio.
Jackal
Ga Usa
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 11:11:31 PM
IP: ww-tk03.proxy.aol.com
<<Gargoyles using the bathroom?? Huh, I just thought that their stone sleep solved "problems" like that... >>
<Fire Storm removed two fingers from each temple and raises his head as if all of the secrets of the universe have been revealed to him> Yes, it is all perfectly clear to me! They poop by sheading thier skin! And when I sit on the toilet, all of my bodily ailments are repaired! (Singing) "I can pee green tea now, my brain is gone, moon shining night!" (Sorry "sunshining day"!)
<Lady Mystic is currently rolling on the floor laughing her butt off after reading this post>
(Oh, and refering to Lady Mystic's posts, what have I done?)
Fire Storm
<JeremyCBCD@aol.com>
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 11:07:35 PM
IP: 201-36-91.ipt.aol.com
<<"We're all different. That's what makes us the same." ...it makes a pretty good gargoyles motto...>>
Yeah, but I'm sure some gargoyles hate other gargoyles just because of the way they look, I've come to the conclusion that "beaked" gargoyles were/are the "minority" of the speices.
<<Don't you ever wonder what someone else's screen name means?>>
Me, personally.. "Jkal662". Jkal abbveration for Jackal. 662, well.., a beeper code....
<<Let's pick some new topics, people..>>
How about another impossible question to answer?? :) How is it physically possible for eyes to glow? Heh, if there's a way, let me know, I'd love nothing more than to walk around with white glowing eyes!!
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
GA usa
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 11:05:15 PM
IP: ww-tk03.proxy.aol.com
Given the fact that they (Coldstone, Coldfire, and Coldsteel) are not actually a trio and aren't really clan, what should we refer to them as? Since they all have "Cold" in their names and that I can't think of anything better, ED's "Cold Trio" is good. What do the rest of you think?
Lady Mystic
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 10:52:35 PM
IP: 173-107-93.ipt.aol.com
ED> I find nothing wrong with the "Cold Trio". I was just stating one of my criptic questions about the fact that it was taking too long to say the members names and that we all need to agree on a name for those three for future reference.
Lady Mystic
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 10:46:59 PM
IP: 173-107-93.ipt.aol.com
I have been "THE DARK CRYSTAL" worshipper since I first saw it when I was 3, the movie came out in 1981. I have "Jim Henson: The Works", "The World of the Dark Crystal" (a book), "The Making of the Dark Crystal" - the book and the documentary film, "The Dark Crystal" (by A.C.H. Smith) a novel based on the movie, and "The Dark Crystal" on video. You wouldn't believe the amount of stuff invented for the movie! The books mentioned above, especially "The World of the Dark Crystal", has so much information on: the planet (Thra), Gelfling culture, the prophesy and history behind the movie's story, the Mystic's (known as the urRu) culture and alchemy, the Skeksis' culture, the history behind how the urSkeks separated into the urRu and the Skeksis, the urSkeks' history, the Pod People's culture, the native animals of the planet, the non-native creatures (such as the Garthim), the Skeksis created animals (the Crystal Bats), the languages, and many other things, facts, and such. There is some storytelling by Aughra, the non-species creation of the planet, who comes from the trees, rocks, and who knows what else. She existed before the urSkeks ever came to the planet, to The Great Conjunction that brought the urSkeks to the planet, through the time of The Great Conjunction that separated the urSkeks, to The Great Conjunction that brought the urRu and the Skeksis back together again, and past the end of the story. BTW, The Great Conjunction, which is the joining of The Three Suns, comes around every 1,000 years. I love this creation - "The Dark Crystal". :D Did you know that JIM HENSON'S THE CREATURE SHOP was created for "The Dark Crystal" movie, and that The Creature Shop does more than just creating puppets and marrionettes? (BTW, the word "muppets" comes from combining the words puppet and marrionette together. So if you ever heard of "The Dark Crystal"s description as having muppets in it, it is NOT the Muppets like Kermit the Frog but the other definition of the term. So please explain this to others, I HATE it when people think that it has the Muppets in it or that the characters are like the Muppets. They are DEFINITELY NOT.) They also do CGI, make-up, costume design, animatronics, and possibly animation. Did you also know that it was The Creature Shop that created YODA in "The Empire Strikes Back"? They used the same technology on Yoda as they did on the characters in "The Dark Crystal". I am currently looking for "Dark Crystal" merchandise and the soundtrack, and anything else related to the movie. Sadly enough the stuff is hard to find. I heard that the soundtrack is available only in the UK and/or Germany, and that any floating around here (USA) are few and far between. I also have "THE LABYRINTH" movie and soundtrack. This movie came out in 1986. I like this movie too, but nothing tops "The Dark Crystal" in my opinion. David Bowie, Jennifer Connely and Brian Froud's son played in "The Labyrinth". Toby Froud was a baby when the movie was made. The movie came out in 1986. His parents met during the making of "The Dark Crystal". David Bowie sings most of the soundtrack, along with some of the puppet character voices. I have Brian Froud's "FAERIES". It includes interesting drawings and written descriptions of fairies and other types of species related to them. I find the book quite informational and entertaining. I am currently looking for his other works, some of which aren't available in the USA. His book "THE WORLD OF FROUD" inspired much of "The Dark Crystal" and is what caught Jim's attention to ask Froud's help for the movie. (Froud also worked with Jim on "The Labyrinth".) It is supposed to have I think it was Norse mythology inspired matterial in it. I'm having a hard time finding a copy of the book. The book isn't even at the Library. Then there is Froud's "GOBLINS" book, which I should have bought when I had the chance. I think that book is still in print. That's all I know of his works, there's not much available of his in the USA, so I am still in the process of becoming an all-knowing fan of his, but I am quite close to the all-knowing fan (I can't say I am completely all-knowing for I don't know how much I haven't learned yet) of Jim henson and "The Dark Crystal". For those of you interested, Showtime has been airing "JIM HENSON'S: THE STORYTELLER" and it's sequel series "JIM HENSON'S: THE STORYTELLER: GREEK MYTHS". It is a series that has a storyteller (whence the name of the series) telling a half hour story. Each story is the foretelling of a myth or a story from folklore. I find the episodes drastically cut to fit into the half hour time slot, but they are entertaining nonetheless. This series came out in 1986/1987. It started when Jim's daughter Lisa was studying folklore and mythology in college. She later suggested to her father to bring some of the stories she learned in school to life "in the way they were originally written, without any sugar coating". She thought that it would be interesting to investigate "some of the lesser-known stories and unfamiliar variations on the better-known tales" to life through The Creature Shop. Well, that's how that started. I have all of these episodes taped as well. Did you also know that Jim Henson created adult-content muppets for some of The Jim Henson Company skits on the older SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE shows? Sorry to say they don't air on Comedy Central, and I haven't seen these episodes in a long time. As you can see, I'm a VERY BIG Henson, "Dark Crystal", and Froud fan.
Just thought I'd repeat my post from s8 for those of you who haven't been there. I thought this might add to comment topics, sorry if it doesn't, this is just a fan who loves talking about this stuff.
Dearborn , MI USA
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 10:30:29 PM
IP: 173-107-93.ipt.aol.com
<<Apollo: Maybe this is just cause I'm fresh out of a Psychology class, but I don't think Roland hates Asrial. He has hated everyone and trusted almost no one his entire life and when he first saw Asrial, and realized she was so similar to him, I think he fell in love. Of everyone from his lost home she was the only one who could possibly understand him. What he did to her was the only way he knew to express himself.(Depressive people seldom know hold to manage their feelings...>> I agree with this part. Roland may have abused Asrial, but he did so to prove a point to the clan and get their attention. He picked her to accentuate his point, that she was like him and that they accepted her yet didn't accept him. He pushed his feelings for her aside to get done the task at hand. Otherwise I think he may have let his feelings free during that one moment in the cave just before he tore her to pieces the second time. Had he let his feelings overtake his plans he would have raped her there when he admired her figure and her legs. But he didn't, and I don't think he really regrets that for he knows he could just as easily run into her again. I think there will be a time when they actually get to know each other, or at least Asrial and the clan getting to know him more. Then it would be easier to decide if he remains an enemy or not, if he stays in exile or not, and if he has a possitive or negative future with Asrial. Only time will tell. BTW, no one has commented about my "We're all different. That's what makes us the same." philosophy. I had said that it makes a pretty good gargoyles motto. It IS what the gargoyles keep trying to prove to the humans no matter what time they live in (with the exception of Avalon). EVERYONE: If not an intrusion to anyone, just to get to know each other better: Don't you ever wonder what someone else's screen name means? I mean we're all becoming friends here, I hope, so it makes sense to get to know a little about each other. I'm not like asking you to tell the rest of us your "no one else is supposed to know" private life. If you don't want to tell or can't remember it's okay. I thought up mine because I like the title "Lady". It reminds me of times gone by, of days forgotten, when matters of eddiquete brought romance and respect to the eras from which it came (even if those times weren't so glamorous). Mystical because I like the mystical stuff, spiritual stuff, the zodiac, medieval, the mysterious "the unknown", magic, and the like; and because it sort of wraps up the general feel of the stories I like to read and the ones I write. ((Fire Storm: I chose this name because 1) I like fire, 2)it sounded cool, 3)storm because the rage part was kinda interesting, 4) ICEMAN was taken, and 5) it took me a few more years to think of the name Lord Temporal (My game handle now, and for the past 3 years.)<G> I have had the name Fire Storm since about 1989ish. WAY before that dang movie came around and stole my good name!)) In advance, thanks for answering! :D
Hi everyone!
Dearborn, MI USA
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 06:48:18 PM
IP: 201-210-106.ipt.aol.com
Um,...whoa. I didn't realize it was such an issue.
*looks down at recent discussion* Let's pick some new topics, people. :)
AotN
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 05:55:26 PM
IP: akron-157-43.sssnet.com
Bathing: The idea of their skin shedding when awakening as a form of the skin cleaning is a good assumption. Although we know that the gargoyles do bathe. <<Since they were regarded as beasts and monsters it seems unlikely that the Wyvern gargoyles were allowed by the humans to bathe.>> Like I mentioned earlier, in The Fox Came Back, there were a few gargoyles (Goliath and Demona) in the castle's communal bath 'house'. Remember Goliath chasing Reynard the Fox with a towel around his middle? Why would they bathe at all if their stone skin shedding daily took care of that? Unless they bathed when too dirty to wait until sunrise, but that doesn't seem too likely because they don't seem to care too much if they're dirty (ie Brooklyn not caring to bathe in Timedancer - not out of convenience but out of not careing to do so). Then there was the idea mentioned about the gargoyles not being able to bathe when living at the clock tower. Fire Storm said that it was possible that they went to the library (at least for going to the bathroom). Not being able to bathe at the clock tower is a hard issue to answer, maybe it's just one of those inconsistencies that the movie media always skips. It was also mentioned that the smell of them would have clued the inhabitants below of their presence. What about the fact of them just being there? One, the gargoyle statues weren't always on the building, weren't there at night, and were always in different possitions the following day. Don't tell me that no one ever looked at the clock. It's a clock, made for people to look at. People would have looked, even if it was broken - I do. Two, no one except Elisa ever went up there? What about clock maintainence? Three, no one ever smelled the food that Broadway cooked or heard the TV playing? No one heard the gargoyles talking? Four, no one ever noticed Elisa and Matt going up there? If Demona and Macbeth could have figured it out (even if it was the Weird Sisters who may have told them during their subtle interference of leading the lives of Demona and Macbeth, and who were pulling their strings), so could anyone else. Five, no one noticed small stone fragments (stone skin) falling to the steps below every evening? Or that the steps had excessive amounts of gravel? Six, no one saw them gliding from and to the Clock Tower (or from and to Errie for that matter)? There was accounts of people witnessing gargoyles gliding in other parts of the city, why not at the Clock Tower and at Errie? Wouldn't there be more gargoyle sitings at their place of origin (where they live) than anywhere else since they come and go and pass that location more often than any other location? Yes I know they are out more than they are at home, but that doesn't rule out the fact that there wasn't any or many sitings at the Clock Tower. The police were there all the time, wouldn't they have seen and heard the gargoyles? Seven, no one ever heard or paid attention to the sundown screams? At Errie I can understand, but at the Clock Tower, where there are people going in and out, and where there are people always present is hard to believe. Going to the bathroom/Waste excretion: What about the gargoyles' "call of nature" necessity? What did they do at the castle, at the Clock Tower (if they didn't use the library's or Clock Tower's facilities), at the Errie Building (although they probably use the facilities there)? What about when their on patrol? Do they use the "pee in a bush" philosophy? I hope and don't think that they do this stuff flying, although they may have done this before humans were around. <<Gargoyles using the bathroom? Huh, I just thought that their stone sleep solved "problems" like that. Jackal>> **LAUGHS** Somehow I don't think so, it sort of follows the thought of slone sleep taking care of other needs of nature, like eating. Their stone sleep may heal wounds but it doesn't heal hunger. So I don't think it "heals" cleanliness or lack there of. Grooming: Like I said earlier, I've read Greg's answers on shaving and hair growing. <<ED: Personally I doubt that he does. The world tour lasted months, and there was no hint in the scripts if not the animation (if they weren't going to get Elisa a casual pair of clothes I doubt they'd bother with bearded Goliath) that Goliath as growing hair. And in the clock tower it seems unlikely too. Besides, they wouldn't have been able to do that too easily at Wyvern, surely.>> Why? Why wouldn't they have been able to shave at Wyvern? There are records of humans shaving in ancient times and before, of course shaving would be possible in the Medieval time period. On the matter of gargoyles growing hair in places that humans do: It makes sense for there to be and not be hair in places that humans have hair. Greg said that maybe some gargoyles can grow beards and maybe some can't. So it makes sense for some to have hair grow in some areas of the body and for some not to have hair in those areas. Some gargoyles have hair on their heads, some don't. On ED's statement of the gargoyles not being able to shave at the Clock Tower: If they used the buildings' or the library's facilities for the bathroom, then they probably used it as well for grooming. On the grooming topic (ponytails, haircuts, etc.): I think that they have taken up the practice, just as they have with clothes. So it makes sense for them to groom. It seems gargoyles took up many practices since humans entered into their lives, and I didn't say started living in the Wyvern area, I meant started bumping into the species. According to the flashbacks in Dark Ages, the gargoyles didn't associate much with humans, just enough to know what they did and what their devices were. They already wore clothes, so the idea of them only wearing clothes as a practice not to offend humans is probably incorrect. The practice of them wearing clothes probably died with them long before they started associating with humans. They probably took up the practice as adornment like jewelry and by Goliath's generation it was just a common necessity. I assume Asrial isn't the only one who thinks about clothes as hiding private parts, I think all the gargoyles would be shocked (whether positively or negatively) at seeing another gargoyle, no matter what their age, naked or nearly so. That just shows that the gargoyles don't dress just for the humans. (And I never said that the gargoyles would dress in human's clothes, with a few exception like the Ishimura clan and probably others.) If an unnecessary habit or trend stays around long enough in due time it will become a part of life and become necessary. The same probably applies for the grooming, bathing, and so on. So the gargoyles are taking up more human practices the longer they associate with humans. Requiem and Dark Ages are proof of that. In Requiem gargoyles live together as humans, at least in certain ways. They define parentage instead of the old clan custom. They practice marriage (at least most of them) instead of the rituals of the old gargoyle custum of "mating". And from what I have observed in DA, combined with how the clan is in Manhatten, the gargolyes are slowly integrating human customs into their own existence. Whether they like it or not, whether they deny it or not, it is happening.
About my question on the lioncloths issue: I already knew for years about the complete structure on lioncloths throughout human history. I asked because I remembered seeing more scenes where the animaters made obvious the fact that there was no cloth between the legs. I recall now that there were some episodes where cloth between the legs was apparent. But the fact that you could see the same skin color under their lioncloths in many episodes kept changing my assumption. So I guess the Gargoyles artists weren't too picky on the issue of always making the area there the same color as the lioncloth instead of painting it the gargoyles' skin color.
Dearborn , MI USA
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 05:42:15 PM
IP: 172-221-225.ipt.aol.com
Obsidiana! That was her name! Thanks, Flynt!
<<..GOLIATH AND ELISA, AFTER ALL THEY ARE THE MAIN CHARACTERS...>>
I've alwayz believed that Demona, MacBeth, and Brooklyn were the main characters, i mean, the gargoyle world seems to revolve around them, (alota things happened because of Demona and MacBeth). An the reason why I say Brooklyn is because he was fated to be the "Quatum Leap" guy. :)
Gargoyles using the bathroom?? Huh, I just thought that their stone sleep solved "problems" like that...
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 04:34:08 PM
IP: ww-tq03.proxy.aol.com
FireStorm: Goliath was seen in the library once. In "Eye of the Beholder" when Fox was changing into the werewolf creature (maybe it was a were-fox?). When Elisa goes to talk to him about helping, he's looking at a book about werewolves in the library.
Cassandra
<nscoa3099@alpha.nsula.edu>
Natchitoches, Louisiana USA
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 04:10:45 PM
IP: 192.102.223.166
Oopsie! 'Broadway.jpg' gives 404 file not found :) neat pics apart from that, anyway!
ED
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 01:34:51 PM
IP: p37-plover-gui.tch.virgin.net
Shauntell: Hi. But please turn the Caps Lock button off next time :) DumlaoX: Thanks for updating pics. :) I'll go see them now…
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 01:22:15 PM
IP: p37-plover-gui.tch.virgin.net
<<I've always wondered myself; I mean, were there
bathrooms and showers in the clock tower? Hmmm... >>
Well, if you think about it, Goliath always went into the library next door, maybe they used the facilities there.
Which brings up the topic of why wasn't he seen when he was reading in there?
Fire Storm
<JeremyCBCD@aol.com>
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 01:01:44 PM
IP: 174-174-121.ipt.aol.com
I have a few problems with the Errie tower.
First, how did Xanatos retrofit the tower to support the weight of the castle? Or did he just build the tower to support a few million tons of weight at the top.
Also, have you ever been at the top of a tall sky-scraper? Ever notice how much they sway with the wind? Can you imagine a massive weight moving with the wind, like a pendulum? The castle would move so much, that I believe that it would topple the castle unless there were anchor cables stretched over several miles (Like broadcast towers). But cables like that would be VERY visable in the TV series.
With how much they removed from the walls to install sliding doors, how stable can the walls be? Way too much of the wall was removed for the doors (And probally plumming, electrical, and phone lines.)
Xanatos, if you think that Fox would complain about drafts in a standard house... In castles, tapestries were used to prevent drafts. But with the lack of tapestries in the castle, paired with the thin modern clothes worn by the humans, it would be down-right freezing in that castle. If Xanatos did want to install insulation, he would have to tear out half of the walls!
Also, how in the world did he get the castle over here? Aircraft Carrier? To my knowledge, there is no one ship large enough to carry that mass! Speaking of which, how did he get it from the pier to the tower, and from the ground up? Heavy lift choppers would constantly clip the other buildings around, and a crane wouldn't be tall enough (He would probally have to put it on another building, so the stone wouldn't be fractured by the weight of the crane, but since his building seems to be taller than the surrounding buildings by at least 200 feet, a crane would be a near impossability.
On a final note: How in the world did he get a building permit to build a castle on top of one of the tallest buildings in the city, in MANHATTAN none the less! I know bribery can do alot, but not THAT much!
BTW... does anyone know what happens at the Gathering?
Fire Storm
<JeremyCBCD@aol.com>
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 12:59:10 PM
IP: 174-174-121.ipt.aol.com
I need to know if anyone out there has any and all technical data on the Steel Clan Robots (armor composites, Flight Speeds, motor tensile strength, power plant specs, etc.) for a story I am writing? Otherwise, can you point me to a place where I can research the data myself? Thanks in Advance...
Greetings all . . .
Tampa, Fla. USA
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 12:54:55 PM
IP: 1cust139.tnt1.st-petersburg.fl.da.uu.net
I have all of the Gargoyles episodes on tape (Except for the TGC episode that Goliath is in court). And as Jackal and whoever has been reading this room for a while knows, I am currently transfering all of the episodes to CD-ROM movies. Maybe I will distribute them to others that want them, or missed a episode. I will charge, BUT only for shipping and
materials charges. I havent decided wether or not to do this, though. (Current plans are for one episode per person, but I may check with Disney if I can actually sell the whole set, giving them a hefty chunk of my profits, of corse :(
I'll keep you posted on that.
(Oh, BTW TGS staff... On the Video CD-ROM I created, I used some of your web page art for the back cover and included a copy of the stories on the CD. I also put the usual disclaimer, and I did give you credit on the Jewel Case insert. If you would prefer that I did not put that on the CD, even though it is non-profit, just tell me and I will stop.)
Fire Storm
<JeremyCBCD@aol.com>
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 12:44:15 PM
IP: 174-174-121.ipt.aol.com
Lady Mistic: In answer to your qestion about the loincloths, my twin brother and I once stopped this part in "Temptations" when Demona does a flip and played it in "frame advance". How do I put this--it like underwear, with flaps in the front and back. But, about the grooming question,... well, I can't help you there. I've always wondered myself; I mean, were there bathrooms and showers in the clock tower? Hmmm...
Hey, has anyone seen that totally awesome picture of Thersites in the picture archive? It's just how I imagined him! :)
AotN
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 12:06:49 PM
IP: akron-157-12.sssnet.com
Alright...I gotta say, I love the TGS series, and can't wait till it's second season. But I need some help. If anyone out there has copies of the The Goliath Chronicles on videotape, please email me, I'd be willing to buy a copy from you.
G.Steele
<g.steele>
Washington, D.C, U.S.A.
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 08:51:14 AM
IP: 129.174.56.57
Regarding gargoyles and their wardrobe: *laughs weakly* This has been a rather amusing topic. Why, you might ask? I've known for ages, thanks to various National Geographic documentaries, that a loincloth is ONE piece of material, passing between the legs and secured front and back by a belt. All the 'naughty bits' are safely tucked away, no underwear needed. If you look carefully at certain rear views, you can see that the gargoyle loincloth is modified with a split in the back for the tail. Any other clothing needed is dictated by fashion and regional human custom. You'll note that females of any species have a need to accessorize, evident by the number of lady gargs sporting jewelry and fancy hairstyles.
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 07:29:36 AM
IP: dal-as2-1038.cmpu.net
Starsinger
Shauntell. Please be gentle and not shout at us. I too am an Elisa and Goliath fanatic. Bataya the Toons gif of Elisa in the gown from Partnership is my most favorite. I WANT THAT GOWN!!! (even if red isn't my color. Maybe nice rich purple or forest green?)
DumlaoX > Please don't let our impatience to see everything mess up your finals. We have all summer
to bother you about our pictures, but finals are even
more important. Good luck and well wishes on them.
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 07:07:41 AM
IP: proxy-168.iap.bryant.webtv.net
IN ALL ACUALLITY I THINK YOU GYS NEED MORE PICTURES OF GOLIATH AND ELISA. EVERY TIME I GET ON LINE AND READ THE TGS STORIED ALL THAT I SEE IS PICTURES OF THE TRIO AND OTHER CHARACTERS. IN MY OPINION YOU SHOULD DO MORE OF GOLIATH AND ELISA, AFTER ALL THEY ARE THE MAIN CHARACTERS... ( AT LEAST FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND ANYWAY). ALSO, I WAS WONDERING WHAT KIND OF REACTION GOLIATH WOULD HAVE TO ASRIALS DEATH ( THAT'S SO SAD! ). THEY'VE ALWAYS SEEMED VERY CLOSE. I LIKE THE ARTIST WHO DOES THE PICTURES TOO BY THE WAY AND WOULD SOME HOW LIKE TO SUBMITT MY OWN PICTURES ( IF POSSIBLE) BUT I DON'T HAVE A SCANNER AND STUFF SO IT WOULD BE RATHER DIFFICULT. ANYWAY THAT IS ALL THAT I HAVE TO SAY FOR NOW.. NO WAIT!! WHAT IS THIS I HEAR ABOUT ANGELA MOVING AWAY FROM THE CLAN? YOU SERIOUSLY CAN'T DO THAT!! IT IS A REAL BIG NO NO, IT WOULD RUIN THE STORY!!
THANKS A BUNCH GUYS, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
( MORE GOLIATH AND ELISA PLEASE!!!! )
SHAUNTELL HOLM
SHAUNTELL
<KHOLM@AOL.COM >
LAYTON, UTAH USA
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 02:16:04 AM
IP: spider-td073.proxy.aol.com
Hmm been a few days ...wow this place is packed!! Gargoyle grooming- I cant see why Gargoyles wouldn't take care of their fieatures and hair in much the same way as humans do. Also it seems a few female Gargoyles wear ponytails apart from Asrail. Desdemona definatley does, as does Angela and I think Obsidiana head her hair braided or something too. Loincloths- :;laughs:: I often wondered this myself! I have no explanation for this. Hmmm maybe they are kind of like made up of two pieces. Maybe they wear something like underwear beneath the loincloth to stop thins "flapping in the breeze" And on that note i bid you all adieu :) til sunset! 
Hi all
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 12:02:30 AM
IP: myeah0.connect.com.au
being all these pics are coming up, where's Nudnik at?
you know me by now
<Jkal662@aol.com>
GA Usa
Thursday, June 11, 1998 at 12:02:28 AM
IP: spider-td031.proxy.aol.com
And the pic page has been updated to show these new additions
And there's a Delilah pic here too.
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 11:38:57 PM
IP: ts50-20.wla.ts.ucla.edu
3 more came down the pike: David Xanatos, Macbeth, and Bronx They will be added to the list of pics later tonight.
And apparently one of the staff artists added some pics without telling me :)
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 11:25:58 PM
IP: ts50-20.wla.ts.ucla.edu
And now the pic page has almost all of the artists names and what pics they did. All I need is to fill in the missing blanks. Will answer your questions later. Right now I have an English take-home final to take care of.
2 more pics added: Mavis 'O Connor and Elisa Maza
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 11:14:11 PM
IP: ts50-20.wla.ts.ucla.edu
Will drop by later when I have more to say... 
Finally got here to the Comment room. Looks good to me so far.
Tampa, Fla. USA
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 09:54:40 PM
IP: 1cust191.tnt1.st-petersburg.fl.da.uu.net
Cavall pic: Just thought I'd mention that it's surprisingly close to how I envisioned him. The only difference was I saw him a bit darker red, and with a little gold crest on his head. I expected an artist's version to be wildly different from what my poor little mind cooked up. :) APOLLO: I don't think it matters one bit if Roland didn't mean to hurt Asrial that much -- he still _did_. He abducted her, held her prisoner and tortured her until she was finally rescued. I don't see any way he could be forgiven or excused. Would you decide to spend your life with someone who'd tied you up on the floor of a cave and whipped and beat you? LADY MYSTIC: I suppose you're right. Your ideas about "testing the waters" do make sense. I'm still wondering how Goliath will make the transition from Asrial to Demona, though, since he and Demona don't seem very compatible at this point. Actually, the Demona of TGS Dark Ages seems more like the modern Demona in some ways than the kinder one we saw in flashbacks like "Long Way to Morning" and especially "Vows". (Mm, I suppose that point's already been made. No harm in bringing it up again, though.) *scratches head* Hmm, need to try to make at least one post without mentioning Asrial. At least a paragraph! :) Well, that'll be my goal for next time. *grins* Clear skies, all. *waves and crawls out the window*
Gargoyle dress and grooming: Well, there are a few rare instances where you can see that the gargoyles' loincloths actually cover them decently. The only one that comes to mind is in "The Mirror", where Goliath turns human and falls from the sky. As he's falling you can see for a second that he's covered. Of course, if the clothes are decent, it still begs the question of why the animators were always so careful not to let the flaps of the loincloths fly up whenever the gargoyles jumped or glided or anything. :/ As for bathing, I always assumed that waking up from stone sleep was the equivalent of a bath -- their skin turns to stone and is shed, along with any dirt that had accumulated on it over the night. Like growing a new clean skin every day.
I do agree that Asrial's death should have meaning, though. death in battle isn't too bad but not quite right, and a failed experiment is too meaningless. My vote (bet? prediction?) is that it's related to Roland the Unforgiveable.
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 07:04:19 PM
IP: grmn-105ppp47.epix.net
Just felt like saying hi
::Looks at the recent comments, chuckles, and leaves::
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 04:22:17 PM
IP: 166.109.92.222
Hmm. I think the gargoyles at Wyvern are probably less concerned about their lack of clothes, as judging by accounts they weren't bothered by that in the past, and the clan elders are still of a pre-human age. I think to them, it's a very human thing. I mean, gargoyles probably don't want cloth or stuff anyway. Why, when they could go after food. They don't feel the cold as much so really the only reason is for pride. And the gargoyles may not have seen going around naked or nearly naked as a problem. By the alliance, perhaps the situation would have changed slightly, but I still think that many would not be too bothered (with exceptions such as Asrail). The Manhattan clan… Goliath I think might feel uncomfortable in human clothes, and there are some very good reasons why making gargoyle design clothes would be tricky, even for David. If you ask for something like that, the person making is bound to be suspicious. And besides, gargoyles are battle creatures. Wearing little suits them. Perhaps they'd pick up some of the human customs and get some underwear or something, but apart from that, I don't see that they'd change their clothing too much. And the Ishimura clan I imagine would use plenty of clothes for celebration, tradition etc. although I suspect they'd use loincloths when doing their jobs as guardians. Well, I imagine that Katharine would have had the gargoyles bathe as often as they could. Since they were regarded as beasts and monsters it seems unlikely that the Wyvern gargoyles were allowed by the humans to bathe. But gargoyles had been there for a long while anyway, so perhaps they have their own habits, and are clean beasts anyway. I imagine that Elisa would have tried to encourage the gargs to bathe. Possibly in the clock tower they would have been unable too, but back with the Xanatoses I'm sure that David would have let them. (apart from anything else if the gargoyles leave a smell everywhere, it invites suspicion). As for the rest of your comments… Well, there was Greg's hint about gargoyles shaving ;) Personally I doubt that he does. The world tour lasted months, and there was no hint in the scripts if not the animation (if they weren't going to get Elisa a casual pair of clothes I doubt they'd bother with bearded Goliath) that Goliath as growing hair. And in the clock tower it seems unlikely too. Besides, they wouldn't have been able to do that too easily at Wyvern, surely. I was wondering that perhaps the hair on gargoyles grow for a while and then stop growing at a certain age, but since Hudson's hair was growing white in Dark Ages, I'm guessing that's not the case. I think that some gargoyles grow hair, and some don't. But some have fur, and feathers, etc.
Lady Mystic: Interesting q, which I couldn't reply to before, 'cause I was slightly rushed.
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 03:55:55 PM
IP: p15-kestrel-gui.tch.virgin.net
Thanx AotN. Queen Tanika - sorry, but I can't see it any other way! :\ Maybe this is just cause I'm fresh out of a Psychology class, but I don't think Roland hates Asrial. He has hated everyone and trusted almost no one his entire life and when he first saw Asrial, and relized she was so similar to him, I think he fell in love. Of everyone from his lost home she was the only one who could possibly understand him. What he did to her was the only way he knew to express himself.(Depressive people seldom know hold to manage their feelings. I don't think he meant to hurt her so much, and he is going to try to make it up to her soon. Maybe one of them will die, or both, but they belong together. I also don't think she should have (if any) a frivolous death(ie:battle, experiments). If they kill her it had better mean something! And Lex, you all know I love Lex, but I think that would go overboard on the Timetravel thing a little too much. :) Ok, my shpeal is done!
Go ED, but just in case the link doesn't work, here is the URL
http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org O
See ya later! V||
|
| |
Apollo
<ORF4@aol.com>
Falls Church, VA USA
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 03:50:21 PM
IP: 166-244-88.ipt.aol.com
This is to the Gathering site. :)
-ED
Link to the Gathering Site
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 03:21:50 PM
IP: p43-curassow-gui.tch.virgin.net
Could someone tell me what website I can go to get more information on The Gathering? I'd love to go, but I need some
details.
Thanks
Cassandra
<nscoa3099@alpha.nsula.edu>
Natchitoches, Louisiana USA
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 03:18:05 PM
IP: 192.102.223.166
<<Gargoyles mate in 20 year cycles (....they mate more often than that, but they're only fertile every 20 years), and their eggs take ten years to hatch.>>
I image they would mate more than once every 20 years, that's a given, right? 10 years?!! Is that what the Greg dude said? Ok, so now that I know that, does anyone know how long they take to be laid?
<<Jackal: But what about Goliath&Elisa?>>
I never really smiled upon them getting involved, it's like forbidden terriory or somethin, A look but don't touch thing, well you can touch, but just not too much!
<<..This is troubling because most of the gargoyles where short tunics and revealing loincloths.>>
I know whatcha mean, one gargoyle that comes to mind is uhh, what was her name.., that blue babe from "The Green"?? Man, she may as well been walkin around butt booty naked! But, you do have an interesting question, Lady Mystic...
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 03:15:21 PM
IP: spider-wa043.proxy.aol.com
Jackal: But what about Goliath&Elisa? Apollo: OK, then. EM you later if I can, otherwise tomorrow :) I think in some cases death is the most effective conclusion. If the Magus hadn't died then they could have prolonged his being the third person, but I suspect it would have gotten stale. The Magus died, and that tragedy is the most fitting conclusion in my opinion. Perhaps in the case of Asrail too… :\ Lady Mystic: What's wrong with the Cold Trio? Greg: Thanks! :)
Firestorm: Sorry. :) Lex and Asrail. And weirder things have happened, to those who disagree.
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 01:09:01 PM
IP: p20-jacana-gui.tch.virgin.net
I know it's kind of a perverse question, but according to what I noticed in the TV show, how do the gargoyles prevent their lower "private areas" from showing when they walk, sit, run, jump, fly, and especially crouch? On TV I saw no cloth go between their legs, the animation artists made it evident on Goliath (and other characters) in some close-up scenes where his back is facing you. And the TGS stories give no indication to that problem. I assume for the TV show it was unintentional, and for the TGS series it will be thought that there is cloth over the genitalia. This is troubling because most of the gargoyles where short tunics and revealing loincloths. Could you clarify this? I'm assuming from the Equality (Angela knew exactly what to do in and after a shower- what the shampoo was, etc.) episode and from The Fox Came Back (Goliath and Demona in the castle's community bath 'house') that the Wyvern/Manhatten Clan gargoyles bathe regularly. I know that the Ishimura Clan does from what the Timedancer series indicates and from what Sata has said (telling Brooklyn to bathe more regularly in Fleeting Encounters, when they were on the rice plantantion). Is this correct? On the same theme, I assume gargoyles also groom regularly? In Equality, Angela combed her hair and thought about the hair cut she got that day (when she was human). In one of the series, Ophelia combs Princess Catherine's hair. I just sited these as examples. Does this mean they take care of their hair instead of leaving it wild? (Yes I know, Asrial does take care of her hair - she wears a poytail.) I know that the gargoyles on Avalon were not raised in gargoyle tradition. I'm just including them as an example. I also assume that some gargoyles groom or shave beards and mustaches also, if they even grow them. Do gargoyles grow hair where humans normally grow hair - their arms and legs, underarms - just to name a few places? If so, do they shave the area or let it grow? I know that humans didn't always shave some of those areas in all cultures and time periods. I assume gargoyles are the same. I already know Greg's VERY short answer on this, FYI. What do you think?
TGS STAFF (and fans): I have some questions that just popped in my head that Fire Storm and I have talked about a long time age. I keep forgetting to ask them. I know that these questions are better directed to Greg on the Ask Greg page, but I've read much of what's been said there. I don't like his many times 'editted' answers. I also thought of asking you here because I'm familiar with the rest of you (TGS staff and fans). I also thought it would make an interesting topic for conversation - not to stop what we've been talking about, I'm just adding to the list.
Dearborn, MI USA
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 11:25:41 AM
IP: 168-92-12.ipt.aol.com
<< I'd really love to go to the gathering, but I live in Quebec, Canada. :( But I hope you guys have fun. Perhaps a photo segment so I and other like me can see what happens? - Pixie>>
Pixie brings up an interesting point: Will the gathering be fillmed or documented for those who don't go or for those who did and want to remember it? And no, I am not exactly volunteering, but...
Fire Storm
<JeremyCBCD@aol.com>
Avalon, Denial Hate country. Prefer Rock and roll.
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 11:16:38 AM
IP: 168-92-12.ipt.aol.com
From my comment on S8 CR: Commenting on one thing mentioned in the Weekly Update, Pink Floyd Symphonic "Us and Them" is really cool! It's totally played by the London Philharmonic Orchestra. The music is Pink Floyd songs and melodies, particularly from their "Us and Them" regular album. The whole symphonic album is intriging to the point of imagining the Dragon on the cover living in it's habitat that it's pictured in on the cover. I have the cassette, which explains the cover artwork- how it realates to the music, a little of Floyd's history, and excerpts on each song- it's background and how the instruments create the mood for the peice. The CD probaably includes the same information. If you like Pink Floyd and/or symphony music, get it. ~From a Pink Floyd and Moody Blues fan and worshipper.
Just thought you'd be interested:
Dearborn , MI USA
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 09:51:05 AM
IP: 168-92-12.ipt.aol.com
Ed> It's pronounced *Mad*oc. Not much else to say. Thamks for coming by to comment on TGS.
Since Ed switched to Castaway, I'll use this pic until a Xanatos pic goes up.
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 08:32:54 AM
IP: 166.109.92.181
<<Iago showed Othello an image of him hugging Desdemona, and while not as guilty as Iago implied, there did seem to be something to it. In fact, while Othello was being all jealous, neither Goliath nor Desdemona denied anything -- she just said "It doesn't matter now".>> Although, maybe Desdemona was just implying that there was other pressing matters and that it wasn't the time to have a childish squabble. On the mating for life issue, many humans mate for life too. Sometimes their mate dies and they eventually choose another mate. My father is in the process of doing that same thing, so I understand why it's done. The same goes for gargoyles, it was mentioned in Dark Ages after Deborah's death. (I really liked her, I cried a little when she died, even though I knew she wouldn't live long in the series.) Goliath choosing Elisa after Demona could have been because to him she is not the gargoyle he fell in love with and so the Demona he pledged life with is no more. She's deceased. So he let his feelings for Elisa grow.
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 08:22:32 AM
IP: 168-92-12.ipt.aol.com
For that matter, I wonder what's happening to the "Other Steel Clan", at least what Fire Storm calls them. 'Them' being Coldstone, Coldfire, and Coldsteel. I think we should call them the "Cold Clan Trio" or just plain "Cold Clan". What do you think?
Yeh, I noticed that too when I first saw the episode (Possessions). There could very well have been a little something between Goliath and Desdemona. (Doesn't that name just role off the toungue so beautifully! :)) But if it happened at all it was probably just one of those "test the waters" sort of things I mentioned in my previous comment. At least it shows how much Othello has grown in caring for her. I wonder what other types of scemes Iago has done in the past (during Dark Ages) that are similar to that.
Dearborn, MI USA
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 07:19:48 AM
IP: 168-92-12.ipt.aol.com
Oh, and speaking of Goliath and Asrial -- we already know he ends up with Demona, right? So there are those two. Then in -- "Possessions"? -- Iago showed Othello an image of him hugging Desdemona, and while not as guilty as Iago implied, there did seem to be something to it. In fact, while Othello was being all jealous, neither Goliath nor Desdemona denied anything -- she just said "It doesn't matter now". On top of that, once he's lost Demona, Goliath gets involved with Elisa a thousand years later. Probably nothing wrong with that for a human, but gargoyles supposedly mate for life, choosing one person early on and sticking to them forever. JACKAL: *strange look* Gargoyles mate in 20 year cycles (Greg has implied that they mate more often than that, but they're only fertile every 20 years), and their eggs take ten years to hatch. Oh, no. LATE!
Asrial: She and Roland? *cringes* No! Not after what he's done to her. I don't think he's quite through with her yet, though, and perhaps she'll die while his captive or something, or maybe he'll outright kill her, but they will never be mates! I see a few other possibilities. She may die as a result of one of her "experiments", or maybe die in battle, since her skills are a bit lacking. But I don't think she'll run away or disappear or choose a different mate or anything. A character that sweet and likeable and innocent just has to die some horrible death. I'll miss her terribly.
Of course, for those who want her spared, maybe she'll invent a time machine and accidentally transport herself to the future, where she meets up with Lex. :)
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 06:55:53 AM
IP: grmn-105ppp95.epix.net
To return to the romance issue yet still dealing with Past Perfect, he gave no indication of having current feelings for her, and that could just very well be because his feelings for her faded when he chose Demona permanently. So that doesn't give a clear enough indication that they were or weren't together. As for the accident she spoke of that occured the other day, how do we know (or don't know) that it was Goliath's subconcious telling him what actually happened to her, since his subconcious poked through quite a bit in that dream/spell. Therefore that could mean that one of her inventions accidentally killed her, whether by her own doing or by someone else accidentally foiling with one of her things (unless it was an intentional set-up by someone). Although, since Goliath's subcouncious poked through a lot, doesn't mean it was always there to tell him something, so maybe he didn't react shocked at seeing Othello and Thersites alive because it may not have kicked in. With this theory it could mean that Asrial does survive at least up to the slaughter. It seems we'll never know until Season 2 to find out what becomes of her. Well, like what was said earlier, Goliath doesn't have completely formed feelings of affection on the mating level for Asrial. And Asrial has SOME sort of feelings for him. BUT what I see between them are those undefined feelings between two people who like each other as friends but may like each other as more than just friends, although neither sure on what the feelings really are or on what to do about them and the situation. Like I mentioned earlier, "...If it can happen to one gargoyle it could happen to another, for who said gargoyles are only like humans in certain ways. They could just as easily loose interest in one another as humans. I think they may have said in an episode that they mate for life (with few exceptions like death), but that's only when they choose a mate, what about before?", so we're probably just witnessing the testing ground for their choosing a mate. That's why I said earlier that Asrial may choose someone else. She may not even consider Goliath. Goliath already showed a small sign of 'noticing' Demona as something other than a 'sister', even if for only a second. All the gargoyles from Goliath's generation are growing up, literally and figuratively. This also means Asrial. Like I mentioned earlier, she is displaying many changes. She is showing that she can take care of herself. She is in a sense becoming more independant. That's why I said maybe she never chooses or gets a mate. Although I think she may fit well with any of the males. Ajax has her intellect, and would make a nice protector (sorry for the cliche role of a male in a relationship). Roland, whether she reforms him or sides with him, creates electicity between them. Thersites, if he also grows up, has thought proccesses similar to hers (if that's enough to keep them together, or for that matter start an interest between them). Diomedes shares her compassion to coexist and work with the humans, and may share other ideas with her. Ajax and Diomedes, I know, would charish her if love was there. They could make her happy. But could Asrial make other people happy? That's hard to answer since at present her thoughts center around her little world of inventions that even her closest friend Goliath can't get past (if he ever tried). So we know from Goliath's little attitude towards Demona and what is happening inside Asrial that Goliath and Asrial may not even have a fling. If Demona and Diomedes are showing signs of "wandering eyes" then it could mean the same for the rest of the rockery. It seems we keep thinking that when the time of choosing a mate enters, the members of the rockery start pairing off into permanent relationships. However, it's only 'natural' for them to court first, test the waters, and possibly try someone else, like what we humans do with crushes, flirting, dating, breaking up, and marrying. So can't we expect this of gargoyles as well? Yes. Other beings in the animal kingdom do it (to a certain extent). Then so can gargoyles.
Who said that Asrial's fate has anything to do with not ending up with Goliath? He was surprised to see her alive in Past Perfect (I finally read it), but does that have anything to do with their possible romance? He didn't show anything but surprise and concern for her being alive and okay. Although this does give a clue that she probably dies before the massacre for he didn't react this was to some of his other clan mates that we are familiar with and that died in the slaughter, like Othello and possibly Thersites. So her fate is destined to be shorter than the rest. How much shorter? It's hard to say yet without more information from Season 2.
Since everyone keeps talking about what will happen to Asrial that will prevent or change her future with Goliath, and how that fits in with her fate. I prefer to point out her personal inner changes and how they're connected to her fate. I talked, very generally, about all the possible fates earlier.
Dearborn, MI USA
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 06:47:30 AM
IP: 168-92-12.ipt.aol.com
<<Lady Mystic> What you might try to to is keep a word program open while you're online. Type out all your thoughts there, then cut and paste. That might get around AOL's time restriction. >>
Taleweaver, thats not the problem. The fair lady and I have found a way around the time problem. And that is what she has been doing. She discovered that her problem was leaving a indent at the begining of a paragraph, AOL immediatly kicked her off shen she pressed send.
We have found a way around that, too.
Fire Storm
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 12:57:52 AM
IP: 168-92-12.ipt.aol.com
Sata's my mate! No, I'm just kiddin! Heh, heh, ohh Jesss. Hey everyone, I know I may be to curious for my own good, but ya know the gargoyle eggs, right? Does anyone know how long it takes for them to be produced and "poped out", and how long does it take for them to hatch afterwards? Really, I'm serious, I wanna know, just to satisfy my morbid curiousity????
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Wednesday, June 10, 1998 at 12:14:50 AM
IP: spider-wa063.proxy.aol.com
Amber> Thanks for the info. I'll check and see which Time to put the flying furfoots to sleep.
of my friends will be willing to let me use their computer and printer. It's only just the last few
stories that I've had trouble, of course it may be the type of file.
To those interestd in the Gathering 98. There is a web site with lots of information. The only reason I'm not up-to-date with it is I won't be able to go.
Mostly distance and a four or five day stay in one of
the most expensive cities around. But if there is a
99 Gathering I'm already planning for that. Again,
thanks for the feedback.
Starsinger
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 11:00:13 PM
IP: proxy-143.iap.bryant.webtv.net
Apollo: Roland and Asrial,...redemption,...Asrial tells Goliath she doesn't love him. "YEAH...."
I'm done now. Really.
AotN
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 10:12:36 PM
IP: dialup-103-99.sssnet.com
Cassandra: Yeah, but where does Goliath come in? As Taleweaver has said, Demona will have to go to a lot of work to "snare him". :)
Fire Storm: HELLO! I already gave this lecture today. Your comment about Demona was offensive and *just plain harsh*! Remember, we're talking about the *young, sweeter, kinder* Demona, and also consider the fact that she and Asrial are FAMILY. She would *never* kill Asrial for a rookery brother in who, so far in TGS:DA, she has shown little interest. *Think*, man!!
Taleweaver: You seem to be making the most sense out of this of everyone! We all should remember that Goliath's generation is still young and in experienced in male-female relationships. Yeah, Demona needs to prove herself, alright!
Sorry, everyone; I've been in a weird mood today! :)
AotN
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 10:10:24 PM
IP: dialup-103-99.sssnet.com
Here's my bit! Asrial...what to do? what to do? I just finished reading Prince of Thieves and I must say, I'll be suprised if Roland and she DON'T end up together. The stage is set for almost a million ways to redeption for either of them. Besides, it looks like Demona will have to kill Asrial or Asrial will have to tell Goliath she doesn't love him. 
"I have this story idea of how it might come close, though" - ED
I'd love to see it if you want to email it to me. :)
*I'm interested in going to The Gathering, is any one out there in the Maryland, DC, Virginia area also interested?
Falls Church, VA USA
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 10:03:43 PM
IP: 170-50-186.ipt.aol.com
Theresa> Checked the stories for you; the illustrations (which are JPEGs, btw) are there, so it must be you. Sorry. :)
Hmm... My first post in here, tho I've been lurking for a while. ;) *examens pic* Must say, it _does_ look... _different_ in here. *grins sheepishly* Heh. ^^;
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 09:28:00 PM
IP: ppp41.ljci.com
If it's me I'll check with go borrow the library computer for an hour and check the pictures. If it's Thanks, Starsinger
General question. In the Pendragon episode Dragon's
Wrath and the Time Dancer episode The Promise, there
appears to be a gif file that is not downloading. Is
it just me or has anyone else had that problem?
not me, can it be fixed?
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 08:18:27 PM
IP: proxy-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net
<<..he believed that a human and a gargoyle would never have a relationship.>>
Come on now, somebody must think that's kinda sick! A human and a gargoyle, ewww. Welllll..., it's time I confess something.., I, well I.., I'm attracted to Sata, in more ways than one. I know that maybe sick, but still..., I don't think gargoyles and humans should be together. But on the other hand..., it's not as though there's a threat of producing a child, ya know, it's a genetic thing..., BUT I'M NOT THINKING ABOUT THIS!!! Sata! Quit looking at me mean!!!
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 07:29:51 PM
IP: ww-tk03.proxy.aol.com
Asrial and Goliath> Aren't we all reading just a bit more than is there. Yeah, I see them close, but they are spending the night together or anything. But if Demona want Goliath, she's going to have do a whole lot of work to snare him. Whic I think is all to the good. Knowing how it turns out I think it's good Goliath has some options and nothing's set in stone. <pardon the pun>
Lady Mystic> What you might try to to is keep a word program open while you're online. Type out all your thoughts there, then cut and paste. That might get around AOL's time restriction.
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 07:26:22 PM
IP: 134.71.30.89
Sorry about that. I'll stop ranting now-The One Eyed Squid
Demona + Asrial: Demona kill Asrial! Yes, Demona has done some horrible things. Yse, she is a villian. Yes, she is very much insane. But, that is our Demona. Not the Demona of old, who was actually a nice person. Remember how, when Demona traveled back in time to convince her younger self to use the Phenix Gate to rule, her youger self rejected her. The idea of killing members of her own clan was inconceivable to the old Demona. I could allways tell the diference between Demona before and after the masacer in the show by the expretionon her face, let us try to do that in TGS as well.
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 06:52:39 PM
IP: ww-tf02.proxy.aol.com
As for the remark about gargoyle-fay hybrids, I don't recall any actual denial of their existence anywhere in TGS. You may be thinking of Blaise's remarks in "The Last Enchantment Part One". Bear in mind, however, that Blaise, although a very wise man, was not omniscient, and at least one remark of his has already been proven wrong - he believed that a human and a gargoyle would never have a relationship. Which means that he clearly didn't foresee Goliath and Elisa. It's entirely possible that such incidents have taken place, but that he didn't know about them.
CASSANDRA - The name Umbriel pops up in Alexander Pope's poem "The Rape of the Lock", where he's the leader of the gnomes. Also, one of the satellites of Uranus is named "Umbriel", and three of Uranus's other satellites are named Oberon, Titania, and Puck. (I think that the latter was a stronger motive of ours in choosing the name).
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 06:48:49 PM
IP: pn11-ppp-213.primary.net
A comment made in one of the series--I've read all of them and I can't remember which character said it--was that there had never been a Halfling between a fae and a gargoyle. Why not? Fae are shape-shifters, after all.
Reading the series, I was pleasantly surprised by who was becoming Halflings (ex. Arthur {actually explains a lot though}, Marie {from Time Dancer}). And bringing in the Unseelie Court, I love it! But then, I've always loved Gargoyles.
Quick Question before I go: What mythology is Umbriel from? The name rings a bell, but I don't remember him mentioned until Reprisals on the Main series.
Leaving now to the mundane world. Sigh.
Cassandra
<nscoa3099@alpha.nsula.edu>
Natchitoches, Louisiana USA
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 05:32:24 PM
IP: 198.79.157.69
<<I can see Demona tossing Diomedes in favor of Goliath--Asrial or no Asrial. Cassandra >
Not to sound Juvanile, but DUH! I think that Demona would go as far as even KILLING Asrial to get what she wants. When she is desperate enough, she will, and has, done anything. She may not have done these yet in Dark Ages, but there is always a start.
Fire Storm
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 04:32:29 PM
IP: 204-142-39.ipt.aol.com
OOPS! That last message was from me!
Fire Storm
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 04:28:42 PM
IP: 204-142-39.ipt.aol.com
<<Firestorm: heh. That would be good. >>
What do you mean ED? What would be good? I mentioned a few things. Could you please clarify?
Anonymous
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 04:27:57 PM
IP: 204-142-39.ipt.aol.com
AotN: Yeah, you're probably right about it being messy. But I also don't see Roland just leaving Asrial alone.
How does Goliath and Demona end up together? The young Demona is just a tad mercenary. In one of the Dark Ages episodes (I can't remember which) she starts wondering about a potential mate in terms of succesors to Hudson. Goliath and Diomedes were at the top of that list if I remember correctly. If Hudson announced that Goliath was his new Second (we know he will okay!), I can see Demona tossing Diomedes in favor of Goliath--Asrial or no Asrial.
Cassandra
<nscoa3099@alpha.nsula.edu>
Natchitoches, Louisiana USA
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 04:27:44 PM
IP: 198.79.157.69
AotN: Interesting thought about Asrial going into exile. Maybe she could get together with Roland. We know he has a thing for her, even if he has a really strange way of showing it. She could start him on the path to redemption. But then again, maybe not. I woner if she, or we for that matter, could ever forgive him for what he did. Well, that was short-The One Eyed Squid
Greetings
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 04:25:24 PM
IP: ww-tf05.proxy.aol.com
Thanks for the compliment AotN! The idea appeals to me. BUT it is up to the TGS staff on that decision. Since I don't want to get into hot water with TGS, I won't bug them. If anything, I'll prove my worth to us fans and to the TGS staff (like I and everyone else has been doing). Like I said, it is up to TGS to decide, but thanks for your support. :)
Most confusing TGS episode: I don't recall any. As for Maddox/Madoc, I never even for once was surprised that he was evil. I always suspected he was fae. I can't explain it- very observant I guess. And I knew he wasn't a friend of Oberon's. About the upcoming battle, I think we (as in us readers and all the characters in the stories) are in for more than we're expecting or ready for. And yes, from the moment Arthur kept rambling about awaking too early gave me a hint, combined with the suspicion about Maddox, the Unseelie information given in the Pendragon flashbacks, and the similation Unseelie battle game in Timedancer's Games Without Frontiers, I knew that Arthur was meant for the BIG war between the Fae that takes place at least in New York and on the shores of Avalon, but probably on most of the world.
Dearborn, MI USA
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 03:25:50 PM
IP: 200-223-37.ipt.aol.com
Okay, I'm leaving now!
AotN
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 03:05:15 PM
IP: akron-157-3.sssnet.com
GOSH, I love gargoyles! :)
AotN
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 03:04:32 PM
IP: akron-157-3.sssnet.com
Lady M: I think you should talk to the writers about coming up with more stories about other gargoyles, like other rookery brothers and sisters. It would certainly make things more interesting. :)
AotN
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 03:03:20 PM
IP: dialup-103-4.sssnet.com
Cassandra: Roland kill her? Nah, too messy!
Lady Mistic: as far as I can tell, what's happened is that so much has happened to her as opposed to the other characters that now everyone's attached to her. Unfortunately, this would make it a little too dramatic if she got killed. The Phoenix Gate escape would be just plain weird. I still think her fate should prove to be something unusual, such as banishment from the clan (yeah right, she's Miss Perfect :) ), or maybe she decides to leave on her own, because she doesn't fit in... hmm, strange ideas, I know!
As for who she should end up with, I think her Diomedes, and then the Goliath-Demona relationship would make sense...
Actually,...well, hmmm. I just ran out of guesses!! :P
AotN
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 03:00:53 PM
IP: dialup-103-4.sssnet.com
Vashkoda: post 'a la ED'? Why 'a la ED'? Oh, and :) Theresa: Most confusing TGS ep… hmm… not sure really… Todd: No, I was just wondering how far you lot had considered it, not 'what's going to happen?' Firestorm: heh. That would be good. Jackal: 'Maddox must've really hurt Lex's feelings' Um, that's one way to put it :) Another way is to say that the person he trusted as far as trusting him with his life apparently was only interested in betraying him from the beginning. Apollo: Lex totally evil… I don't think it'll come to that. I have this story idea of how it might come close, though. Flashbacks: Can work. Can drag on. But in the main I do like 'em. Cavall: Ah, Cavall still looks different in my mind. I know Cavall when I see him ;) Pics are as good as ever though. DumlaoX: could you put the names of the talented artists up when you put up the pictures? Just curious. :) Mandi: Sounds good. Pixle: See last week's room for ages and stuff. :) I'll use Castaway since Todd is using Madoc. How is that pronounced BTW? Ma-*doc* or *Ma*-doc?
One Eyed Squid: hmm. If the war comes to England I could go out and watch the fireworks :) Heh.
And yeah, there's a whole discussion at Station 8 about 'em. S8's at www.s8.org if you didn't already know, but the link I have for when I want to see the Comment Room there and I'm in a hurry is http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/comment2.html.
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 02:50:11 PM
IP: p12-nighthawk-gui.tch.virgin.net
Sorry, another one of my broken essay-comments again. At least this time I got it all on this page.
Lady Mystic
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 02:43:46 PM
IP: 200-223-37.ipt.aol.com
Although, I know we like her a lot, but what if she just has a normal life. I know, drama would make her so much more memorable than she already is and that somehow she deserves it (kind of weird hoping for an advevturous and evil fate for one so kind and likable, but we all can see why). So in a way we all want her immortalized. But what if she tones down to other gargoyle standards of behavior, attitude, and activities. She already shows signs of slightly becoming like everyone else. (She also shows signs of a feircer side that Brother Edmund has observed and has commented on understanding why. That's why I mentioned before about the mental attack or the evil side- even if unlikely.) She could very well make a stable future for herself with the clan and in itself that would solve this dilemma. I see no matter what her future is, we love her and that somehow she will always be accepted by the clan through one way or another. Whether by a tragic event or by her proving herself to the clan further than she already has. That's how she will be immortalized- through our memories. And with that I accept whatever happens to her with open arms.
Lady Mystic
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 02:42:13 PM
IP: 200-223-37.ipt.aol.com
Does she leave the castle? And why? By her own accord or by someone elses? Does Roland kidnap her away again only to torture her again, kill her, or take her as a mate? Does Atalanta do away with her? Now if she dies before the massacre, How soon before? How does she die? By accident (an actual accident or an accidental murder) or planned murder? If accident, is it by one of her inventions or in a battle. If on purpose, who does it? She could very well commit suicide (I know I'm being a little rash, but look at it: she could do this out of a mental attack or possibly to prevent from being murdered, or worse, by an enemy like Atalanta, but more likely Roland.) Does en enemy kill her? We know who her current enemies are, but could it be just an anonymous one, like a Viking; or a new one, one we haven't seen yet, or even Demona. Or does she die from a desease? The list goes on...
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 02:41:22 PM
IP: 200-223-37.ipt.aol.com
Who does she end up with? This can pertain to any of the survival fates mentioned above. Does she end up with a member of the Dark Ages clan? If so, is it in her time, the present DA time; in the mere to later future, whether by a Phoenix Gate jump or by just pure waiting around while others have mates. If she ends up with someone how? We know Goliath doesn't end up with her. But how do we know something happens to her before mating season? She could very well grow old of Goliath like Demona does of Diomedes. If it can happen to one gargoyle it could happen to another, for who said gargoyles are only like humans in certain ways. They could just as easily loose interest in one another as humans. I think they may have said in an episode that they mate for life (with few exceptions like death), but that's only when they choose a mate, what about before? Asrial could very well choose Diomedes, Ajax, Thersites, another brother, or even Roland (she could go insane and take his side or maybe there could be a twisted romance and she could be trying to reform him). But Roland is another story. Or does she die without ever knowing what it's like to have a mate, or for that matter a suiter? Does she choose to be independant?
Lady Mystic
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 02:39:15 PM
IP: 200-223-37.ipt.aol.com
First off let me say that I don't think I read Past Perfect. I think that may have been one of the stories I had a hard time loading and that by the time I got it I had forgotten about it because I moved on in the series. But anyway here's my synopsis. First of all we have to accept whatever fate she has. Then decide if she surives the massacre (by some interference, like the Phoenix Gate), dies before the massacre, or dies during the massacre.
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 02:38:15 PM
IP: 200-223-37.ipt.aol.com
As to the fate of Asrial, Fire Storm and I have been talking about this topic since her character appeared in Dark Ages. She's one of my favorite characters. (Although I like all the characters in TGS.) I could talk about her for hours. There's a lot of possibilities.
Lady Mystic
<TJSSLSSAS@aol.com>
Dearborn, MI USA
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 02:37:12 PM
IP: 200-223-37.ipt.aol.com
<<Is Meryt still around in the twentieth century? And if she is, will she encounter Brooklyn and Sata in the Present?>>
Even though I love Meryt, (better than Sata), I hope Meryt is dead, for Brooklyn's sake! Meryt was already "half dead" when we frist met her anyway.., You see how mean Sata looks at me, just image how she would look at Meryt!! But then again.., maybe Brooklyn didn't say anything about a past love to Sata, so she wouldn't know, even if Meryt lived(s) thur the 20th century.
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 02:12:34 PM
IP: spider-wa023.proxy.aol.com
You don't visit a site for a few days and look what happens.
But here's my idea for what could happen to Asrial. Roland.
He's already grabbed and tortured her once, what if he kidnapped
her again and this time killed her?
The character Pandora has always bothered me from Timedancer. Does she mean that there could be a clan of gargoyles living with the New Olympians (even though we never saw any evidence in the episode)? Or is she the mother of all gargoyles?
That's all for now. Bye.
Cassandra
<nscoa3099@alpha.nsula.edu>
Natchitoches, Louisiana USA
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 01:29:27 PM
IP: 198.79.157.69
AotN: Yeah, I see your point. Demona wouldn't be that twisted, not prior to the invasion. Sometimes I have trouble distinguishing the young Demona from the genocidal immortal we all know and love. Too used to the modern version, I guess :) I just don't like the idea of Asrial being killed, although I know finding her a loophole would be sort of a copout. *sigh*
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 01:08:01 PM
IP: 131.92.167.42
In relation to the on-going Asrial debate:
Airwalker: My thoughts exactly. It's all a big mess! :P
Mandi Ohlin: Why do you think Demona would do something as nasty as that to Asrial. Sure, everyone knows she was hatched a bit twisted, but she's a good person at heart (particularly as a young gargoyle). And, what it all comes down to in a gargoyle clan is-- FAMILY. Demona, Goliath, even Thersites knows this. They all care about eachother because they're rookery brothers and sisters!
One-Eyed Squid: It will probably be sooner than some would like, or so I'm assuming, based on a certain "VOWS" flashback...
The possiblities for the solution to this confusion are practically endless. So much could happen to Asrial--she could die, get banished from the clan, even leave on her own (a big doubt, though, considering the FAMILY consept). Anyway, it's fun to keep guessing!
AotN
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 12:50:34 PM
IP: akron-157-16.sssnet.com
That's all for now, Thank a lot 
Hello to anyone out there! I've read the Gargoyles Saga from day one, and I have to say that it is an excellent Fan Fiction. Some of the best I have seen for a fanfic series. I have a few question though, and if anyone could answer, i'd be more than happy :)
1) I heard some while ago that you might do some MP2, Mp3 of some episodes. If your going to do it on the Gargoyles one, are you going to change the voices of all the characters we know, or are you just going to do the series with new characters?
2) Get a bigger Gallery :)
3) I'd really love to go to the gathering, but I live in Quebec, Canada. :( But I hope you guys have fun. Perhaps a photo segment so I and other like me can see what happens?
4) Are you planing other sub series?
Ps---just how old are you guys (I'm just 16 :)
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 11:32:00 AM
IP: modemcable190.93.mtimi.videotron.net
Lexington - Lexington is now a cyborg. Will he go down the path to Future Tense, or will he become master of his own fate and choose his future for himself? I think that Lex will be very bitter and become very untrusting of humans (with certain exceptions) in the next season but he will remain on the side of good. What will happen to him in the future? I suspect that he will remain as he is for a while, and when Ragnarok starts, will go after Madoc, getting seriously injured, and requiring more cyborgization. In the far future, he will be mortally wounded saving Graeme and Ariana as eggs and his body will die. But since he is at that point part machine, maybe he downloads his mind into Xanatos' computer network. That would explain the twins mysterious comments in 'Out of Joint Part Two' about transmitters never reaching to far, and not being able to hug him. They wouldn't be able to if he was just a hologram wandering around Castle Wyvern. That would also explain the grave in 'Reqiuem'. His body died, but his mind lived on. He wasn't at the funeral, because he couldn't be. He is confined to the Eyrie Building and a few blocks around it. I know, I know this is a very depressing future for Lex, but let's not forget that inbetween the time that this might happen (I'm just guessing), and now he will live his life. He will hopefully find love, and who knows, maybe those implants will help him in some way to defeat the Unseelie in the future war. That was a long post, and my first one to this TGS comment room. Just two questions, that I have asked before but nobody seemed to answer: 1. How long had Brooklyn been timedancing when he encountered Sata in 'Dishonor'? 2. Is Meryt still around in the twentieth century? And if she is, will she encounter Brooklyn and Sata in the Present? (I would love to see how Sata and Meryt would react to each other.)
Asrial - I don't think that she will be among the living for much longer in Dark Ages. What is may evidence for this, you might ask. Go back and read TGS:G episode 'Past Perfect'. That was the episode where Mavis placed a spell on Goliath and he was living in an alternate medieval wyvern. Well, in that episode, when Goliath meets Asrial, he says that she is alive, and she replies that some invention that she was testing thatt had backfired didn't kill her, that she killed it. That supports my idea that curiousity will kill her. Now the other problem is how do you free up Demona? In TGS:DA isn't she interested in someone other than Goliath?
Brooklyn, NY
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 10:44:10 AM
IP: 150.new-york-16-17rs.ny.dial-access.att.net
To the best of my knowledge, we have no plans to include "spoilers" for future episodes next season. The original series didn't do it after "Awakening", and I certainly see no point in doing the same thing myself.
Todd Jensen
<merlyn@ninenet.com>
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 08:38:41 AM
IP: pn9-ppp-189.primary.net
A different possibility for Asrial's fate. I agree that I really can't see Goliath breaking up with her and going for Demona instead. But instead of an actual death, what about a disappearance? Say Demona sets her sights on Goliath and decides to get rid of the competition with a spell (it would depend on how long it takes the Archmage to twist her that much). Since she still might not be able to bring herself to cause her rookery sister's death, the spell instead makes Asrial vanish from Scotland. Where she ends up, nobody knows, but then Goliath would believe her dead anyway and hook up with Demona on the rebound. *closes eyes and prays that Internet Explorer doesn't time this out*
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 08:06:00 AM
IP: 131.92.167.42
Asrial+Lex: First off, I don't think Lex and Asrial should, or will, get together. I just don't see it. Even though we haven't seen her in a while, if Lex does get together with any of the current charicters it should probably be Liz. Just Asrial: Like Jackal I also think Asrial should die. I have three reasons for this. 1) I think it would just be to Convenient, to nice. 2) Goliath and her seem to have a bit of Chemistry. I really don't think an episode whare they brake up would work very well. 3) And lastly, I just think it would make a good story. I'd also like to say that Though I do think she should die, I don't think Asrial should die anytime soon. I do like her charicter, and I would miss her. Well, I'm done-The One Eyed Squid
Greetings All
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 06:35:52 AM
IP: spider-td051.proxy.aol.com
Also, the pic viewer page has been updated. More to come.
Just added: pics of Broadway and Angela.
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 05:53:16 AM
IP: ts36-11.wla.ts.ucla.edu
Laudre> Yup, if you ever saw the hardback version, it's a picture of Rand with his hands out in front of him (for no apparent reason, tho' I have't read it *yet*) in a dark city while those mutant creatures are watching him from the shadows. I wanted to make my collection of Rand versions complete, so I waited 'til the hardback cover went to soft. Oh, this is a garg room, huh? Okay. =) Asrial> Heh, does anyone else think of Gargamel's cat when they hear that name? Anyways, I don't think the staff will make her survive 'til the 21st century. After all, the Gargoyles show already went a bit far in allowing so many characters to survive to the '90s (the clan were asleep, Demona was immortal, Coldstone was resuscitated, Hakon & the Captain were ghosts, etc). The only way they could do it that I could possibly swallow would be for Brook & Co. to bring her back with them, but we alreay know that's not gonnna happen (or maybe they'll drop her off at a different time). I actually wrote a fic where Brook saves Dem's 2nd clan from Canmore's men and brings them to Avalon (those same gargs are present in scenes of "Avalon" if you look closely), but then Greg's answer already negated that possibility in his universe. Anyways, the one way I could imagine Asrail and Lex getting together (which I don't think is a good idea to begin with--they're just too similar) would be for Asrail to have escaped and maybe joined up with the London clan, and have one of her descendants meet Lex. Lex wouldn't know the relation, but I'm sure the staff would drop some hint, and then the fans would all release a huge collective sigh. Well, that's my 2 cents. Laters!
All right, once again, I will do a service to us all and display the newest pic. I must say, I am interested in seeing what Cavall looks like. =)
Anteater Land--but not for much longer!,
Tuesday, June 09, 1998 at 01:12:08 AM
IP: dialin9058.slip.uci.edu
OOPS! I missed a few points!
About the spoilers: Did you mean spoilers in this room, or at the end of the TGS episode: "Next week on TGS?" I don't think that I would like that. I mean,on television, there helpful to see if you saw the episode or not, but in story form, I think they would do more harm than good.
Jackal: I can easily see Lex going all Future Tense on us. <<Lady Mystic: I agree. Also, look at the information given in the Pendragon episode Visions, even if it could actually belong to a paralell universe.>>
^^^^^^I tend to agree. I think that particular vision was fairly accurate. I doubt that FT has been totally averted. It just may appear in another form. Since Lex knows that there is a Avalon, wouldn't it make sense to make your headquarters in a place where no person can touch you, just like the Archmage planned? For all we know, maybe the gargoyles gliding towards the beach were of the same clan? How do we even know if they WERE gargoyles (Think Unseelie and the Steel Clan). Maybe Lex was trying to help Oberon re-take avalon from the rebel Wierd Sisters (They DO have thier own agenda)? For all we know, maybe Lex was desperate for a mate! But, I can say this: I doubt lex will be what is considered 'completely good' until he saves Brooklyn and Sata's kids in the future. Until then, I think his life will be more than just a little shaky and painful.
Poor Lex? Hey, who else's life can we ruin? No one else, beacuse we know too much about thier current future. Thier future is set in digital stone allready. All we know about Lex's future is
a) He is a cyborg
b) he will stay a cyborg
c) he saves the kids
d) he dies before 2255
Thats it. Nothing else has really been said about him in the future.
Which reminds me (and Lady Mystic): What about the mutates? Absolutely nothing has been said about them in the future. What happens to them? Since they are underground, do they die in the earthquake?
I personally like flash backs. They do add to the story.
If Arthur goes to find the Holy Grail next season, will he meet the Vorpal bunnie and need the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch ('tis one of the sacred relics brother Mainard carries with him!) I just HAD to say that! I love Monty Python!
Also, when I think of the story Requiem, I think of the monks saying 'donna a es Requiem'(sorry about my absolutely lousy latin spelling) before the sound of them hitting thier head.
(Now I know they will NEVER go to castle Anthrax!(but it could be fun! ;)
Fire Storm
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 11:16:09 PM
IP: 167-170-167.ipt.aol.com
I'm thinking about going to the gathering, but I don't know yet..., No one get mad at what I'm about to say, I know this is on the verge of evil, but I'm feelin devilish anyway...., I think Asriel should die, if for no other reason than to prove a point..., Poor ol Lex.., heh, he just needs a girlfriend! But it's not as though he would be able to see her correctly because of his "6 million dollar man" eyes!! And being that I'm on this mean strick, What was Angela thinking?!! She coulda had Brooklyn! Why is that Sata could see past his temper and she couldn't, or did Sata just get used to him, and fooled herself into thinking that she loved him? Oh my.., did that come out of me? Jess, ah well!
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 11:09:13 PM
IP: ww-tc04.proxy.aol.com
NO! Don't even think of making Lex totally evil! ::knock on wood:: Yeah, times are difficult for him, but he's had it rough before (remember Possessions).
As for Demona, I think that if Goliath could forgive the Captain (of the guard)then he could forgive Demona too. And remember, she still has a 1000 xtra years of bitterness to work through. She'll get there! :]
Apollo
<ORF4@aol.com>
Falls Church, VA USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 10:45:18 PM
IP: 204-57-2.ipt.aol.com
Previously on Jackal's message- :)
"I don't feel Demona is a murderer..., and it's none of Sata's business anyway.."
Everyone agrees with that though, right? That Angela and Demona have the right to see each other. I don't care what she did, she's has the right to see her child. How would Sata like it if someone said, "Hey, we're not gonna let Ariana see you anymore because you look at Jackal mean!" Ya know what i mean? No matter how Sata looks at me, she should be able to see her child!! This is pretty close to my real life..., it doesn't matter what the mother did, she's gotta right to see her kid, And that child's love, may change that mother! (But this isn't Jerry Springer...) *Sigh*
Now, about Lex. If you think about it, Maddox must've really hurt Lex's feelings. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexington goes completely Demonaish, and is hateful towards everyone...
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 10:33:45 PM
IP: ww-ta02.proxy.aol.com
Well, besides my question of who is going to the Gathering, I have idea about Asriel, but I KNOW it won't happen:
What if Brooklyn and Sata bring Asriel to thier future (2005, and the like) and she gets together with Lex?
I know, I know, a little hokey and too "romantic", but hey, I can't help my self. I like her, and I don't want to see her die in the slaughter.
Fire Storm
<JeremyCBCD@aol.com>
Dearborn, Mi USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 10:25:06 PM
IP: 167-170-167.ipt.aol.com
more to come
Just added pic: Cavall
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 10:07:19 PM
IP: ts52-48.wla.ts.ucla.edu
Vashkoda> Two covers for Crown of Swords? I only saw one. It was black-on-red with a small painted image of a crown with swords sticking out of it (I think). (I'm currently reading The Dragon Reborn and dying of anticipation until Path of Daggers comes out in October.)
Todd> A villain from the Republic serials of the 40's and 50's. Back in the Golden Age of cinema, serials were one of the kinds of shorts run before the feature; others were cartoons and newsreels. Anyway, these serials ran for about twelve to fourteen fifteen-minute episodes, and featured fairly cookie-cutter plots and characters. A lot of what's treated as cliche in this day and age came from these serials; the villain explaining his masterstroke while he has the hero seemingly trapped, just in time for the hero to escape and, with the knowledge gained from the villain's explanation, stop his plan. (I say Republic because the vast majority of serials were distributed by Republic Pictures.) At any rate, you can rent serials compiled onto video at any decent video rental store, or a Blockbuster. (I swear by Tommy K's, but they're only in New Haven County, CT.) Check out the Zorro serials, for instance.
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 08:36:12 PM
IP: p01-04.stamford.dialin.ntplx.com
Though I understand your reason for thinking that. No, I'm not a member of the TGS staff, but thanks for the compliment!
Lady Mystic
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 07:17:03 PM
IP: 174-179-45.ipt.aol.com
Sorry Todd. I'll have to read the story again. I'll get back with you on that one. **GRIN** Oh no, I think you may have given away some criptic message!
Lady Mystic
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:56:59 PM
IP: 174-179-45.ipt.aol.com
BTW: I personally don't like the idea of spoilers for future episodes. I see them on TV and fequently they don't leave much to guess on as to what will happen, who caused it, what will be done about it,etc. For people like me who are good analyzers and watch things carefully, and are good at piecing things together, spoilers ruin the anticipation on what TGS has planned for the following week.
I like the flashbacks very much, in all the TGS series. I've always liked flashbacks. Many times they're my favorite parts, in books, movies, shows, etc. I think that's what attracted me so much to Highlander- the movies and the series (though I like Highlander 1 the best) and to the TGS series and Gargoyles the TV series. They give a story flavor and illuminates the events and characters, putting them on a more personal note, and it makes them more believeable, more like the're living, breathing beings.
Dearborn, Mi USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:50:15 PM
IP: 174-179-45.ipt.aol.com
LAUDRE - What's a Republic serial villain? NEW OLYMPIANS - I'm not at liberty to say anything about our plans for them, if any, in TGS. What I will say is that I did like the "New Olympians" concept, partly because of my interest in classical mythology. The actual name is a bit comic-bookish, but I found the notion of a hidden island of beings directly descended from the species of Greek mythology a fascinating one.
LADY MYSTIC - I don't recall anything about the visions being unfamiliar to Rhodri in "Wanderer" or having only started up once he got Lyre. Are you sure that's what the story said?
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:46:16 PM
IP: pn7-ppp-98.primary.net
I'm very glad to see my comment spurred people to delve deeper into the series than just saying what you like and dislike by way of characters. Like I said earlier, I'm not excusing Demona for her crimes and I DEFINITELY DON'T excuse the Nazis for their crimes. I'm just saying that I think of Demona not as a villain and not as a good guy. She's not even in the middle. I agree with Laudre on her comment about Demona and the villain idea. And I never said she had good intentions. Her intentions were good to a fault. She didn't think enough, her greedy side always gets the better of her. She wants things her way and when they don't go her way she can't handle it properly for a result she can put up with. (There's the reaction cycle.) THAT'S what prevents her from being able to just accept what she has or what's given to her. That's why she threw away all the chances of mending things with herself and with her x-clan. It boils down to psychology to understand her. Understanding doesn't mean liking nor accepting, it means knowing the concept better. (Here's one of my criptic hints. Whereas it pertains to more than just the Demona-villain idea, but to everything in existance. Then again I have a criptic message in this last statement too. Although this one would take too long to explain and covers too many topics and thoughts.)
Dearborn , MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:38:35 PM
IP: 174-179-45.ipt.aol.com
The idea of Merlin being the minstrel is kind of iffy. Though that was my first guess when Merlin mentioned it in Quest's End. Although, if you look closely again at the bond between the Lyre and Rhodri it's the same as the relationship between Rory and the Spear. Rhodri commented confidentially to the Lyre about the bursts of the images of the future coming only since he took up his perpose with the Lyre. He didn't have the ability before he found the Lyre (or the Lyre found him). He also said that this was new to him and that he wasn't used to it. If you look at the Pendragon flashbacks you'll see that Merlin was quite used to the ability of precognition and that it was a part of who he was his whole life. Why would Merlin think that if he already has the ability of precognition? That's why I think that it's not Merlin.
Thanks, that's a good idea to use an abbreviation only after you've already mentioned the name or title in the current post. I hope others catch on. It was kind of confusing last week at moments where a lot of abbreviations were used too much.
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:31:35 PM
IP: 174-179-45.ipt.aol.com
Looks like JACKAL, Lady Mistic and I all agree on the Demona debate! :)
One-Eyed Squid: I definitely share your belief that something will happen to Asrial before the massacre. Probably something within the next few years, by Wyvern time! I just don't see her having such a pointless death as the massacre.
Hmmm...
AotN
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:18:02 PM
IP: akron-157-4.sssnet.com
Lady Mystic: Hints? Are you on the TGS Staff? I didn't see you listed on the credits page. Most confusing episode: I really had trouble understanding what was hapening in Past Perfect. That's all for now-The One Eyed Squid
I'm back
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:03:34 PM
IP: ww-te01.proxy.aol.com
<<I can understand Goliath and Sata's trepedation in letting Angela see her mother. Because that mother is also a murderer.>>
I feel that Angela has a right to know her mother, wither she's a muderer or not. I don't feel Demona is a murderer..., and it's none of Sata's business anyway..., but Sata is another story!
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 05:54:25 PM
IP: spider-wa034.proxy.aol.com
Referances to ley lines. I first found this in Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar books. Also the reference Someone wanted a discussion. How about most confussing episode of TGS. My vote goes for TWO. I ED> have you posted you New Olympian information elsewhere? I would like to know more of your thoughts about them. I have a friend next door (Bless you Dennis) who would let me use his computer I haven't read all of the DA stories and only about
to being allergic to caffeine in her Elf books.
still can't understand it and I've read it twice.
to post stories on. He let me use it to print out stories when I couldn't get enough library time.
half of Pen and TD, but my favorite storyline is the
main Gargoyles. I plan of having everything read before the new season arrives.
Lurking as ever, Starsinger
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 05:44:57 PM
IP: proxy-113.iap.bryant.webtv.net
<<The people to really blame for "Gargoyles" being off the air are the kids..>>
Well if Gargoyles was put in a proper time zone it still may be on today! I still blame the execs, for thinking that it was a children's show. If the "Simpsons" were put on at 4pm.., Hell no it wouldn't have lasted!!!
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 05:32:43 PM
IP: spider-wa034.proxy.aol.com
Wanderer> I'm fairly certain the bard is Merlin. Merlin was a bard in some versions, and he did have a harp in his cave in the "Lighthouse" ep (or I think he did. Haven't seen that one in a while). Plus the ability to see into the future (or the "Sight", as M.Z. Bradley would call it) was ascribed to him as well. But those suggestions of him being in the harp or of it being Rory are interesting ones to consider. I liked the ep as a whole, though when the other characters came to life, it got kinda...weird. Un gargoyle-ish. But I guess it was necessary. Lady Mystic> I've come across ley lines before, though not in the series you've mentioned. I think it's a common idea that's used quite frequently in fantasy lit. In fact, I think it might have some scientific basis, with magnetic field lines and supposed focus points of energy around the globe. Don't quote me on that, tho'. As for nitpicking the TGS eps, we did a lot of it in the normal S8 CR already. I suppose someone should do what we did there a short while ago for TGC, and bring up one TGS ep every few days to discuss here. Laudre> I'm with you about those covers. I can see why "Crown" had two covers, for people who couldn't stand to see yet another version of Rand. ED> Heh, I loved your analysis of the NO's motives in the other CR, and here too, tho' I don't get some of it 'cause I still haven't finished all of TGS (Shame on me!). Hm, that wasn't as long a post as I thought. I'll try harder next time.
Hm.... I think I'll do a post "a la ED". =)
Irvine, CA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 04:16:19 PM
IP: dialin9121.slip.uci.edu
Question For the TGS Staff: I noticed a number of similarties between Thersites and the charicter Rincewind from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. Was Thersites based on Rincewind or is it just a coincidence. Demona a Villen? I'd have to say yes no matter her mentel health. She tried to kill the entie human population. Excusing her for her crimes would be like excusing the Nazis for their crimes. Theries on what will Hapin next: (Do Not read these If you are not caught up as they contain SPOILERS!) That's all for now, babye
Hallo Everyone
Gargoyles: I seems pretty obvious that there is going to be a war between Oberon's Children and the Unsealy Cort. Though I do believe Oberon will win in the end, I expect Maddoc to be winning for most of it. At one pint he may even controol Avalon, and force Oberon to establish a cort in exile. Seeing as the New Olimpions are Fay Hybrids New Olympus might be a good location.
Pendragon: Based on the events in Quests End, I expect Auther to play a large role in the fay war. According to the ledgends Auther would return when Britain needed him the most. I think his means that a good amount of the war will spill on the Earth. Manhatten and England Spacificly. Also since Garlon was one of Auther's enimies I expect him to be quite prominent in Pendragon. Any ideas who he is though, the only openent I think of of Auther's, who didn't get killed, was Lancerlot. And I find that rather unlikely.
Dark Ages: Though I do think Brother Edmond will retern to Wythern I beleave he may retern with another priest, one who will counteract his influence and atempt to spread a little anti-gargoyle feeling. Also I've noticed something between Goliath and Asrial. Since we know Goliath will eventually end up with Demona, I think something will hapen to Asrial BEFORE the masacer.
Timedancer: Since I'm not finished with this season of TD I'm not going to post any theries on the next.
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 04:14:59 PM
IP: ww-te02.proxy.aol.com
You might be too cryptic, but then so are the TGS crew and so is Greg Weisman. :) Cryptic is fun. Although annoying ;) this is turning into a chat room... I've got to go now anyway.
ED
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:53:32 PM
IP: p14-seedeater-gui.tch.virgin.net
Sorry if you can't recognize many of my hints. Fire Storm says my hints (whether in real life or on here) tend to be a little too criptic, with too many topics hidden in them. But thanks ED. At least somebody finally caught my obvious hint.
Lady Mystic
<TJSSLSSAS@aol.com>
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:50:48 PM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
Sorry for the abbreviations. I'll use NO though, if i've already said NEW OLYMPIAN, as otherwise it makes for a very long, and difficult to read post. :) But only if I've already used the word :) And yeah... the Avalon group have potential, although I think they'll have plenty of moments in the sun at the time of The Rising. I'd like to see more of the clan there.
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:49:58 PM
IP: p14-seedeater-gui.tch.virgin.net
TO EVERYONE: If it's not too much trouble, could you not abbrevieate titles and names so much. To the people who haven't read the stories in a long time. Sometimes, quite often, we get confused on what exactly you're talking about. Besides, what do we do when the abbreviations can pertain to more the one thing. Thanks ever so much.
I think that the New Olympians could maybe fit in TGS next season, MAYBE. They could enter TGS either by way of a new series or through the Gargoyles Main Story. (I call the series Gargoyles Main Story so as not to confuse you with the TV Show or with the species in general.) With the Rising coming up some time next season they might play a part, than again they might not. Or after one of the current series concludes, TGS might start a new series with The New Olympians. But they are interesting characters. They'd make for some interesting adventures. So would the AVALON inhabitants--gargoyles, humans, and fae.
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:44:21 PM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
Guess I'll have to go back and read your old posts more carefully to see what you're getting at...
ED
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:28:18 PM
IP: p12-oriole-gui.tch.virgin.net
Sorry about the spelling. I guess I'm typing too fast. Well, I got too many ideas to post! I've been posting my ideas every now and then instead of all at once like I tried to do the first time. I HATE what happened! AOL kept kicking me off and I never got to post everything on the room. I had to create a link. That'll show me. Besides, no one seems to catch my hints too well, so I'll give them one at a time. Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to.
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:20:16 PM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
And since I couldn't really enhance on my answer to Todd's 'what would have happened in THE NEW OLYMPIANS' question, in terms of TGS, I can do so here. To all that read my comments there, I'm sure you realise I mean Maddox/ Madoc. At the end of THE NEW OLYMPIANS, they say that Elisa was the first human to set foot on the island in over 2000 years. That doesn't take account of the third race. Now Maddox Technologies produces the best stuff on the market. Maddox needs that sort of technology to fuel his ambitions in the human world. But if his natural instincts are magical I see little reason why he would find it easy to set up something as successful as MT (OK, granted- he has a possible eternity to do it in). Besides, if Boreas tries to go for the 'pro-human' angle then the group that oppose him might well desire backup. And if Madoc needs troops for The Rising, then wouldn't it be advantageous for a deal to be struck. And the NO donate some technology to aid the Mr. M. Now, obviously that would crack NO society yet again, so he would probably be secret. OK, that's one idea based around how I think it would happen. But that sort of thing, with the NO war drawing in at least two gargoyle clans (Manhattan and New Olympus), and as I've described there, the CoO quite probably. I'm curious, so 2 qs: To the TGS crew: how far have you considered the New Olympians in the series (like 'no' or 'well, possibly we might do this' or 'when the time is right we'll do this' or 'we know exactly what we're going to do in the near future'.)? I appreciate that you may not want to answer that although it's hardly giving anything away. To whoever: What do you think would/should/will happen to the NOs in TGS? Heck, do you think it's worth them playing a part? While I can't for the life of me see why myself, I know there are people who are really disinterested in THE NEW OLYMPIANS. :|
Lady Mystic: Yeah… perhaps we should go through the saga again for as much as we can before the new season. Have a look at what we can uncover :)
And no, I haven't read that.
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:16:50 PM
IP: p12-oriole-gui.tch.virgin.net
TGS STAFF and TGS FANS:
Any of you read THE DRAGON NIMBUS series by Irene Radford? If so, did you notice that the magic blue ley lines in the TGS series (Gargoyles Main Story episodes say George uses them as a power source) is just like in the DRAGON NIMBUS books? TGS writers: is this just a coincidence or did you get the ideas from Irene Radford's books? If not, I surprised! There's just to much the same in your stories and hers (about the properties and principles of the ley lines) for there not to be a connection.
Lady Mystic
<TJSSLSSAS2aol.com>
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:07:48 PM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
Furthermore, her actions are deplorable; I think the only reason she stood there and told the clan about the virus like a Republic serial villain was because she believed there was nothing they could do to stop her masterstroke. Regardless of Demona's intentions and her history, she still made the choices that led her down this path: she betrayed Clan Wyvern, she betrayed Macbeth, and when she was finally reunited with the survivors of the Wyvern massacre, she betrayed them again. Art> The vast majority of the images here are not narrative images, like the covers of many novels (particularly, in my experience, fantasy novels) are. So there's no reason for them to necessarily look like a scene out of the story. (That's not to say there aren't terrible narrative artworks out there; anyone ever take a good look at the covers of the first six Wheel of Time novels? Rand looks different on each one.)
Demona as villain> Considering that "villain" is usually used in modern North American English to describe a role in a story, yes, Demona's a villain. Not as much in TGS as she was in Gargoyles, but a villain nonetheless.
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 02:46:37 PM
IP: p02-35.stamford.dialin.ntplx.com
TO EVERYONE: GOT ANY IDEAS ?
While I also agree with you ED on the debates giving the room color I am just waiting to have some of the intellectual conversation I was talking about. I didn't mean to sound as if I didn't want debates at all, and I didn't mean for all of us to agree. I meant for us to go to more topics than just stuff we've been agrueing about. I would like more talking about "Did you notice this in such and such episode? I wonder what will happen to so and so? Did you connect this with that? You know, stuff like that.
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 02:43:51 PM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
A Macbeth debate ending a Demona debate? Heh. :) Demona good? I think as long as she has the capacity to be 'evil' and would willingly do evil things, then she's still able to be classed as 'evil'. But it's a very poor word to use to describe her… never cared for 'good guys' 'bad guys' anyway: it's too black and white. Apart from in some cases where it works well. The BAD GUYS for instance, since it's a reflection on their past. Lady Mystic: The reason I originally was blocked by WANDERER is simply because it was so long. Almost 70 pages of word size 10 (I copy the stories to Word and read them there). It was quite good actually, but it did seem to drag on a bit… I liked the minstrel too. Oh, and argue away. (as in debate not as in shout and scream :) )- the room would be pretty dull if everyone's reply to a comment was 'I agree' :) Would Lex trust a human again? Hmmm… I think whether he does or doesn't is going to be key factor in how accurate the prophecies of FUTURE TENSE & VISIONS turn out to be... Theresa: 'Tis fine :) Just glad to have sorted it out. :) Hmm… I suppose if you've got a webtv that sort of rules out writing your stuff on word, and pasting it in (like I do) or answering from a separate window. Hmm… glad I get the net via computer. :\ DumlaoX: I've been impatient for these pics. I apologise.
Todd: Yeah, and more annoying still is that by the time all this stuff comes over to Britain it's the shows that are most popular in the US that get shown most, so Gargs and those in similar positions don't get a chance. :\
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 02:26:56 PM
IP: p19-guan-gui.tch.virgin.net
More to come.
Just added to the room: Human Lexington and Human Brooklyn.
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 01:58:16 PM
IP: clsc-pc-17.clicc.ucla.edu
Yes Tigron I did see your comment. My comment wasn't to start an arguement. I was just posting my support to a fellow artist. On the Demona debate: Taleweaver, I viewed her actions heavily at first, and sometimes still do. I was just trying to get others to see the psychological side of her actions. I am not waving away what she's done, just stating that we all make mistakes. And no I'm not saying that's an excuse. I'm saying: look at the psychological side of everyone. It boils down to the very basic. The cycle of life: for every action the is a reaction. The reaction creates another reaction and so on and so forth, FOREVER. What is crutial is how we deal with the action and what we choose our reaction to be for further cascading reations. I was just pointing out that Demona is one that hasn't mastered how to create the habit of thinking of the reation and how THAT will affect her. Like I said earlier, most of what I say in here is to have an intellectual conversation, NOT to start arguements and debates. And as Fire Storm knows, I am a VERY good debater and arguer in real life. He's complained enough times about my way of putting things where nothing else can be said. I don't want to turn the TGS Comment Room into a fighting match. I want, and I'm sure more can agree, to exchange ideas here and get our minds flowing more than they have been the past week.
Thanks for answering my question so quickly DumlaoX! I understand. I'll wait patiently. Be sure to let us know what you have planned to do about in the future. Thanks!
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 01:31:51 PM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
PICTURES-- I cannot place names of pics that were supposed to be on the comment room simply because Gorebash's script does not allow that to happen. Like I said, we are trying to do this as fast as we can. Glad to see that you are all patient :) And I will get to updating the picture viewer page. Have 2 weeks of finals left for me, you know. THE ROOM-- This is wiped every Monday at midnight and last week's room gets archived. What I am doing, since the script can't do it and since this is running of Gorebash's side of the server, is archiving the comment room. Soon, I'll place a link to the archive from the main TGS site so you can backtrack all the way to when this first started if you like. That's the only way I can do this now, unless I do something with Gore about linking back to current comment room. For now, the back button is your best friend. And, yes, this is what the room is all about. Discuss any and every part of TGS you like. There will be at least one person out there from the staff that will answer your query. You know me. More things to come soon. And a special congrats to y'all out there that posted during week one. Shows this room has a bright future ahead for itself.
A new room, new questiones to be answered.
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 01:12:45 PM
IP: clsc-pc-17.clicc.ucla.edu
Thanks Todd. It's always nice to here a positive response to my comments. And It's always nice to here from the TGS staff. I was beginning to wonder if anyone out there ever notices these things. I'd be glad to talk about these kinds of things with anyone. The only one I get to talk to on Gargoyles (TV) and TGS stories is Fire Storm and we keep wondering what others think. But no one seems to be latching on to my hints. I got more up my sleeve! So conversations on the less noticeable things in TGS and the TV show are welcome be me. I love intellectually stimulating conversations. Come on, talk to me. ;)
Lady Mystic
<TJSSLSSAS@aol.com>
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 01:01:02 PM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
Apparently, no one saw my defense from CS Hayden's comment, because it's on the very end of last week's comment list!
Tigron
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 12:43:15 PM
IP: ww-pa01.proxy.aol.com
There's another possibility behind why Demona told the gargs about the Praying Gargoyle, besides the suggestion that she was subconsciously trying to foil her scheme; she may genuinely not have been expecting them to try smashing it. For one thing, although Demona knows that Goliath won't let her attempt to wipe out humanity, she probably never anticipated that he'd be willing to sacrifice - or come close to sacrificing - his entire species in an effort to prevent her. And also, she might have believed that the clan had finally become anti-human; remember, when she last saw Goliath, he was going all out to get revenge on the Hunters. And there was an angry mob surrounding the cathedral wanting to kill the clan. Perhaps Demona believed that she'd finally gotten through to Goliath and the others about humanity being utterly evil. Of course, she was in for a big surprise if that was the case. LADY MYSTIC - Ah, you noticed that line in "Quest's End". I was wondering when somebody would. As for your question - "Was Rhodri the minstrel really Merlin or somebody else?" - that's a good question. A very good question indeed. I'm glad that you're paying attention to these things.
Another Demona debate, I see. Better sit down and get comfortable, people - these things are almost indestructible, just like the character. (Indeed, as I once said, it's possible that only a Macbeth debate can end a Demona debate :)
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 12:19:37 PM
IP: pn16-ppp-218.primary.net
Demona meant the best when she betrayed the castle to the vikings, but the clan is just as dead. So yes, I can understand Goliath and Sata's trepedation in letting Angela see her mother. Because that mother is also a murderer. And all the hopes and good wishes won't wash that blood off her hands.
Allow my dissenting opinon on Demona, Lady Mystic. I judge her actions very heavily. You can mean the best things in the world, but the proof is in the doing. and what Demona's done in the past can't be waved away with a 'but she's Angela's mother'. Demona has destroyed lives, murdered people and attempted to do the same for the Goliath, Elisa and the clan.
Yorba Linda,
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 12:06:04 PM
IP: 134.71.30.89
Sorry DumlaoX for spelling you name wrong. My apologies :(
Lady Mystic
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 10:12:19 AM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
DumloaX: are you going to update how the comment room works. It's not convenient the way you have it. At least when trying to get to the current comment page if you're in the archive page. Please make something easier for the future. What happens when the archive has to hold more than one week? The comment list for one week is long enough to scroll through. Are you going to make seperate archives for different weeks? Please answer on what you're plans are. I'm sure others will start wondering this also. Thanks.
Lady Mystic
<TJSSLSSAS>
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 10:06:01 AM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
To those commenting on not liking the "Wanderer" or on the stopping of reading the Dark Ages series because of it:
I personally liked the Wanderer. At least the minstrel in the episode. He had potential. I wish he was in more episodes. Although I think we haven't heard the last about him (refer to "Quest's End"). Fire Storm and I conversed on this. We went over possibilities: who could have been the minstrel? We thought maybe a new charactor, Merlin himself, or Rory (as another reincarnation). Then Fire Storm suggested that maybe Merlin was actually the Lyre! Merlin did comment that he traveled to the castle. Sorry, I can't remember what he actually said, I finished reading all the episodes weeks ago so my memory's fuzzy on certain events. Just food for thought! What do you think?
Lady Mystic
<TJSSLSSAS@aol.com>
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 09:41:55 AM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
To those who want her to change to be good at present in Gargoyles: refer to Requiem. You can't change the history that TGS has shown you already (sorry, if you haven't read it yet).
Jackal, I also think about Demona as not being a villain. I don't base this on her actions but on her history. I use psychology. She's just a person who's mind doesn't mesh well with certain topics of life. She's got a mind that doesn't listen to the rational, but instead to what she believes is rational. She doesn't think about all possible consiquences. She also has a mental block on dealing with these problems. She can't believe things to be her fault. Although, I think some part of her does and she can't handle that fact. So what does she do? She uses anger to deal with her problems. For times like now, where she isn't destructing anything (yet, anyway) she hides herself within. She's at that awkward stange of realizing that there is a problem, but it's still too early for her (remember the information in Requiem). I could get into the actual psychological comments on this but I won't. (FYI: I understand a lot of psychology naturally and am taking it in school. So don't think I don't know what I'm talking about. I do.) I haven't explained it in the best words but I'll leave it as is for now. She's also showing signs of this destructive attitude in Dark Ages, but not enough to surface. The Archmage is feeding it, very slowly but surely. There's still good in her in DA like one of the writers said a while back in the comments. The psychology behind her actions I mentioned above was always there. It's just who she is. Her "awakening" in Requiem was her changing of bad mental habits (psychology class thing, so feel free to ask if you"re confused on what I mean).
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 09:32:56 AM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
Teresa, thanks for clarifing the meaning of Ragnarok. I didn't think of checking my Mythology books for that. It makes sense that TGS would use a Norse mythological word or name for that particular upcoming event. It fits in quite well as a title for the Unseelie's plans of "ending the world", at least the world as we know it. Christi Smith Hayden: I agree with you on the "artist's liscence" comment. And I like you're sketches very much. Sorry if I didn't mention any other artists here, but I associate with Christi more. My art style, at least in sketches and drawing, is closer to her style. And yes, I notice that all too much about the artwork on the covers of paperbacks. <<The
Good day everyone!
Continueing comments said from last week's archive:
main purpose of illustration is not copy a story, but rather to enhance it and give the reader a vivid image.>> Too true, I agree.
Dearborn, MI USA
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 08:26:43 AM
IP: 200-41-22.ipt.aol.com
VALEENTINO - You're being a bit unfair on the Disney execs. The reason why they cancelled "Gargoyles" was because of its low ratings and the fact that they'd produced a whole set (65 episodes, 78 if you count TGC) of episodes, so they didn't need to order any more. The people to really blame for "Gargoyles" being off the air are the kids who chose to watch "Power Rangers" instead. (The mere fact that they chose "Power Rangers" over "Gargoyles" makes a very melancholy statement about America's youth).
Todd Jensen
<merlyn@ninenet.com>
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 07:18:24 AM
IP: pn3-ppp-133.primary.net
Tenth! Whee! Okay, proof that I have no life! I'm going to get breakfast now....*yawn*
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:26:55 AM
IP: p1-17.netgsi.com
*grins and hops over to find her place at S8*
Ninth! Top ten, yay!
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 06:08:33 AM
IP: grmn-105ppp170.epix.net
Just a quick comment to add: I've noticed that most pics of the DA clan have them dressed up in cool outfits or armor, but actually, all the ones we saw (save Hudson, the breastplate garg and the Cold guys) only had loincloths on (and the halters for the females). I know the new threads are probably more fun to draw, but I had to comment on it. =) Laters!
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:46:08 AM
IP: dialin9024.slip.uci.edu
Well, since it's not up on the view pics page (like so many others (*hint*)) I will use Ajax for today. =)
Seventh! A lucky number!
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:39:45 AM
IP: dialin9024.slip.uci.edu
More to come
Just added: a pic of Ajax
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 03:12:00 AM
IP: ts42-5.wla.ts.ucla.edu
Fifth! Whohoooo!!
Thalia
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 01:42:52 AM
IP: 140.174.119.79
Jackal: Hmm... I agree. He may never trust a human again. First, the Pack, then his 'friend' Maddox. But, who knows? If she thinks that he a human now, and we know that she is a member of the P.I.T. Crew, you never can be certian.
Fire Storm
<JeremyCBCD@aol.com>
Dearborn, Mi 48124
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 01:26:07 AM
IP: 173-252-21.ipt.aol.com
It seemed like we finally got some animation that gave us Shakesperean and thought-inciting writing. It got taken away from us because the TV execs seem to like things that only appeal to them. They're in the mode of dumbing down the rest of the viewing public.
valeentino
<valm@aol.com>
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 01:02:33 AM
IP: dhcppool226.ggu.edu
Third!! I think......., but no really. Is Lex gonna trust a human again, or better yet.., why should he?
Jackal
<Jkal662@aol.com>
Ga Usa
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 12:34:26 AM
IP: ww-tp05.proxy.aol.com
Second! Yee Haw!
Llewelyn
<narf3@hotmail.com>
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 12:15:20 AM
IP: user-38lc2ag.dialup.mindspring.com
(a Station 8 comment room tradition brought here by yours truly ^_^)
FIRST!
Monday, June 08, 1998 at 12:12:09 AM
IP: p02-23.stamford.dialin.ntplx.com