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Anonymous
Sun Aug 23 03:54:33 AM
IP: slip-32-100-243-32.ma.us.ibm.net
Christine: A few days? God, you must have passion for fanfiction! You are the fastest writer I've ever met! I know my saga's next installment isn't going to be posted any time soon, you'll probably have at least ten more stories up before I finish it. Sigh, oh well...
Lisa: Hope Madoc likes his present. MUHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Doug
Sun Aug 23 03:09:44 AM
IP: hd42-111.hil.compuserve.com
Coyote > I made the buttons myself, with color print-outs of CrzyDemona's pic (hi, Jen!) and my button-maker.
Book stuff > still nothing. But I'll be posting a crossover fanfic in a few days! Crossing over with myself ... how weird! How vain! How ... how about I don't use the word I was gonna use? ; )
Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Sun Aug 23 12:06:34 AM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net
(Lisa quickly dives back down and intercepts the mailperson)
Whoops! It's Brocken, not Brogan. Wrong address. (The mailperson nods and switches it as Lisa grins evilly.) Get that express mail, please!! (hands the mailperson a tenspot) Bye now!
(Lisa zips off and glides away as the mailperson rushes to get Madoc his present.)
Lisa
Sat Aug 22 09:55:04 PM
IP: hil-dnppi-095.oh.compuserve.net
(Lisa suprises Coyote by walking in carrying a huge mail package that appears to have something kicking and screaming around inside it. She marks it "Nicholas Maddox, Brogan Castle, Germany" and hands it to a chatroom mailperson to send off.)
Heh heh, now Todd won't get that present SJ sent but those Unseelie assholes will!! I am so glad I intercepted it! Take that, Madoc Morfyrn and Queen Maeve!! (smiles wryly)
Coyote: Where am I tonight? Well, right now the rest of the Ravens and I are together for our weekly D&D game. It's breaktime right now (We take a half-hour break at 8:30) and I thought I'd check out what was going on in here. Not much, I see. Guess this is as good a time as any to tell you where those gargs I gave you for WCC sleep during the day. As I've said before, I don't turn to stone by day, I just regenerate like Wolverine of the X-Men does. The others, though, roost on the deck on top of the UT Tower (with UT President Larry Faulkner's permission; apart from us Ravens, he's their only human friend, the clan saved his life once, the campus is part of their protectorate, and the Tower observation deck is closed due to all the suicides back in the seventies and Charles Whitman, so President Faulkner lets them stay up there). Before that, I'm not sure where they slept by day or even where they came from. Maybe someday I'll find out. Just thought you might want to know this information.
Ravyn and SJ: Thanks for the warm welcome. It's good to be back. Too bad I have to go now. My cleric is needed to help the rest of the party against some really bad undead. See y'all next time! Doug sends his regards.
(Lisa catches an updraft and soars back out the skylight grate.)
Lisa - [dierdre34@yahoo.com]
Sat Aug 22 09:48:45 PM
IP: hil-dnppi-095.oh.compuserve.net
**Coyote enters the room, standing in the center and listening to the wind whistle hollowly through it.**
Geez, does this place clear out after 4pm Saturday or something?? Where is everybody?!
Lisa/Kitainia: Yes, I will send you URL's for assessing my artwork (my computer kind of dies when I try to send graphic file attachments through e-mail) once I have them at my Geocities space. Already have pencils done on your pic ... ready for action with Rosanna ... ;) (don't mind me, thought I'd tantalize you a little.)
Christine: Loved the Gathering report. Makes me look forward even more eagerly to Dallas. Question, though: how much did it cost you apiece to have the Jericho buttons made up, or did you do them yourself? (just as a guide for me for next year.) Hope my experience next year isn't quite as hectic but equally as enjoyable (too bad everybody'll miss out on the fabulous bathroom view you had.).
Well, just thought I'd try to get a conversation started ... excuse me for a moment ...
**Coyote cups his hands around his mouth, yelling out and listening to the echo reverberate around the room. He shrugs his shoulders, slowly walking out of the room.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Sat Aug 22 09:31:21 PM
IP: 207.91.254.58
44 days until the Rising.
SEVARIUS, JR. - Ulp. I'm not exactly sure what I did to deserve that sort of birthday present from you. I can only hope that you somehow forgot to put enough postage on it, so that it wound up being returned to sender :)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sat Aug 22 07:50:44 AM
IP: pn3-ppp-144.primary.net
Greetings. 16,666 people have come through the front door of the TGS main page. Welcome back all who have traveled. You were missed. The pictures and stories are welcomed. Your save return, more so. I know it's going to be a bad day at work, the last two were, but being here keeps me going. Later world.
Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Sat Aug 22 07:04:31 AM
IP: proxy-155.iap.bryant.webtv.net
JEB- alternate net name, please.
That's all I have to say for now.
Lisa - [dierdre34@yahoo.com]
Sat Aug 22 12:57:18 AM
IP: hd53-079.hil.compuserve.com
Welcome back, Lisa! We all missed you!
Ravyn Maza
Arizona
Fri Aug 21 07:31:57 PM
IP: svm-ts1-26.c2i2.com
LISA'S BACK! LISA'S BACK! Finally, I think the room's roster is now complete.
And Todd, happy (belated) b-day man. Your present is in the mail. You'll know which one is mine, cause I had to poke holes in the box for "it" to breathe. Just a few rules of ownership on your gift: it likes to be called "Roy", never handle it without rubber gloves, and never, NEVER feed it after midnight.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Fri Aug 21 05:52:21 PM
IP: client-151-200-125-155.bellatlantic.net
Hmmm....still a month and a few days to go...*pout*
Eld
Fri Aug 21 11:00:41 AM
IP: chrisreed.ne.mediaone.net
Lisa> Will do! :) You want me to put Kitainia as your fandom name or as an alternate net name?
Yes, I am still here. I'm just silent. <:)
JEB
Fri Aug 21 10:24:55 AM
IP: 204-98-109.ipt.aol.com
Did I say When Clans Collide? I meant Clan Manhattan! Sorry!!
Lisa
Fri Aug 21 09:17:07 AM
IP: hd9-205.hil.compuserve.com
(Trumpets fanfare loudly and party streamers blow as Lisa dives in through the skylight, executes a dizzying set of aerial acrobatics, and then lands on the CR floor and takes a bow.)
I'm back!! Anybody miss me?
My trip was okay, family sends their regards. I missed all you guys and gals here, though I did read over the room every chance I got. There's a lot here, I see. Gore, why haven't you gotten it clearing yet?
Now I must announce to everyone my new improved Internet handle- Kitainia! JEB, please update your registry with this if you find the time. In case anyone's wondering, it's a combination of the word Tain and the name of the Dragonlance villainess Kitiara (who somehow got left out of our fave list). I'll still call myself Lisa in here, wouldn't want to force you guys to get used to a new name, but everywhere else I am Kitainia!
9th of 2- Welcome! On your question about Picard's baldness, maybe he likes it that way. I know a lot of people who think baldness makes them look more distinguished, and thus better, than they do with hair. Plus, I just can't see him with hair for some reason.
Todd- Happy belated Birthday! I have another survey for this page, but I'll hold off on it till it starts clearing out of respect for the wishes of such a great fanfic writer.
Coyote- Enjoy the clan I sent, I know you'll find a good use for them. If anybody has a picture of the Gathering 99 Mascot they can send Coyote, please do. Until Alex gets his scanner fixed or replaced (he's still procrastinating), we can't do it from here. Coyote's going to draw the rest for me, and hopefully send them to me for evaluation when he gets finished (hint hint). And Coyote, I will be waiting anxiously for the next chapter of When Clans Collide!
Sevarius Jr.: I missed you most of all. Come here, you big lug. (holds out her arms, SJ smiles and approaches. Doug drops his jaw and looks at them both in disbelief as they share a long comforting hug before Lisa pats him on the back, releases SJ, and turns away.) Don't worry, Doug, that was entirely platonic (not that you would mind if it wasn't. I hope). Okay, now that I'm back, I hope to hear some more of your great jokes. And on why Gorelisa won't call you, I bet it's that s/he thinks your breath smells. Whenever I don't call a guy, it's either that or that I don't like him. With you, what's not to like?
The Gathering: I've heard so many good things about it, I am really angry I wasn't able to come up there. Next year it will be in Dallas so dollars to donuts I'll try my best and be able to!! Look forward to meeting all of you then. From what I've heard of this year's and seen in Doug's pictures, everyone had a blast! Wish I could have enjoyed it with y'all (okay, I've said that enough already). The most interesting thing I've heard so far is that a lot of people were making out during Greg's panel. Looks like Doug and I have some catching up to do.
That's all for now. We'll be back. Later!
(Lisa grabs Doug and they jet out the skylight on his rocketpack, acting out a popular make-out-while-flying fantasy as they go. As they head out into the sky, Doug quickly activates the invisibility shield so nobody will be embarrassed.)
Lisa - [dierdre34@yahoo.com]
Fri Aug 21 09:13:59 AM
IP: hd9-205.hil.compuserve.com
(Doug strides in with a long speech prepared. Uh oh.)
Todd: Happy belated birthday, man!
Coyote: Yep, that was a good story, so all copliments were well-deserved. Can't wait till the next one.
(raises speech) And Now Presenting, returned from her much too-long absence, the illustrious, the great, the wonderful, (stops and reads ahead) wait, this can't be who I'm announcing. This description is way too good. Lisa, just get in here!!
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Fri Aug 21 08:51:35 AM
IP: hd1-209.hil.compuserve.com
45 days until the Rising.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Fri Aug 21 07:32:31 AM
IP: pn9-ppp-172.primary.net
WOW! According to my clock, this room has been going on, without being cleared, for 15 days, 2 hours, and 13 minutes. (Ah-oh, did I just start a new count-down, more like count-up? Scary thought: it actually sounds like a good idea! (hint, hint) <G>)
Lady Mystic
Fri Aug 21 04:12:02 AM
IP: 174-190-72.ipt.aol.com
Just a quick post out of consideration for the room's length:
Hello Everyone!
Todd: HaPpY BiRtHdAy! :)
Christine AND Christi: <Laughs> Since I will be attenting the G'99 with Fire Storm I'll be sure to shove him your way! Although, would that make him and/or both of you growl at *me*? Hmm... <G>
Lady Mystic - [TJSSLSSAS@aol.com]
Dearborn, MI
Fri Aug 21 03:57:45 AM
IP: 174-190-72.ipt.aol.com
My Gathering Report is now posted! Click on my name to read all the dirt that's fit to print! Got my pictures back today, so hopefully I'll have them posted soon!
Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Fri Aug 21 12:44:51 AM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net
Finally got some AVI's up of Gathering 98.
Gorelisa shaking her .. um.. whatever that is that is shaking there...
and Seth "I'm too sexy for my mask" Jackson...
I hope you get a good laugh out of them... I sure did >:)
*Clicky clicky*
CrzyDemona
Thu Aug 20 08:40:08 PM
IP: host6.sn180-3.sysci.org
**Coyote enters the room. That's it. Nothing too special.**
Doug: Thanks for the complements. I was hoping the developments with Angela and Samson would completely throw everybody. And BTW, before I forget (and since I'm already talking to Doug), Lisa, thanks for Clan Austin (and for yourself, additionally.)! They will find themselves in the thick midst of the story, believe me.
Sevarius Jr.: Don't worry about getting the URL wrong. Maybe the folks who click through will stick around to read some stories! I certainly don't mind. ;)
**Coyote leaves the room. On his way out the door, he picks up a box that reads "McCord Gaskets" and heads toward the Tazilac, rolling up his sleeves.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Thu Aug 20 07:33:16 PM
IP: 207.91.254.65
46 days until the Rising.
(Sorry for not saying this earlier today).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thu Aug 20 06:45:18 PM
IP: pn5-ppp-229.primary.net
Well...click on the "When Clans Collide" banner...Damn computer! I ALWAYS mess up my addeys....
Sevarius Jr.
Thu Aug 20 06:21:21 PM
IP: client-151-200-125-43.bellatlantic.net
I don't mean to brag...but go to Coyote's website for his upcoming "When Clans Collide", and coast on down to the wee bottom to see a familiar name...just click on my name to go there.
Sevarius Jr. - [<-----------Coyote's Site]
Thu Aug 20 06:18:51 PM
IP: client-151-200-125-43.bellatlantic.net
Hi again! I'm not feeling really crazy or anything today. It's really freaking me out. I think it's because I have to head back to school tomorrow...
Coyote>>As always, another wonderful addition to the Clan Manhattan series! Good job!
Jackal>>Man, I hope things work out for you, whatever's wrong. And although I may not seem like a religious person, I really am, so Yes, I'll pray for ya, pal.
Well, that's it for me now. Bye!
Ravyn Maza
Arizona
Thu Aug 20 03:59:47 PM
IP: svm-ts1-6.c2i2.com
9th of 2- Yeah, I agree with you on the B duo. And on original and easy-to-remember names. When I'm a Gargs fan, I'm Doug. Everywhere else, I'm usually Mikrog, the orc warlock. That was a character I did for a fantasy novel I scrapped halfway through the third chapter when I realized I didn't like what I had going. So far, I haven't gotten back to it, all the writing I do nowadays is fanfiction. Oh well, I enjoy that much more and so does my audience (if all the good feedback I get isn't a lie and I'm sure it can't be), so for a long long time it will continue. Hope it's the same for all the fanfic writers whose stuff I love to read (Christine Morgan, the TGS people, Christi Smith Hayden, A Fan, and Lex Wyvern come easiest to mind).
Doug
Thu Aug 20 01:16:47 PM
IP: 199.174.204.238
Out of curiousity, doesn't ne1 ever wonder why Picard can be altered into a Romulan but on the other hand, he's still bald? You'd think they'd have something for hair-loss after 300 years.
ninth of two
Thu Aug 20 11:59:12 AM
IP: h24-64-138-38.mt.wave.shaw.ca
Sevarius: You don't get nine from two. Unless you do, then my bad
ravyn - thanks. i think i'll manage.
fire storm - LOL wasn't it beavis and butthead?
they're not that bad. sure the topics are a
little doesn't-concern-the-world but it's
a nice show when nothing else is on
ninth of two - [ninth_of_two@yahoo.com]
Thu Aug 20 11:54:04 AM
IP: h24-64-138-38.mt.wave.shaw.ca
Apollo: It's not really a Borg name since there wouldn't be a ninth person if there are ony two. It's sort of a joke but not really. I was just tired of seeing everyone with the same name in the chat places so I decided to go for something original and easy to remember.
ninth of two - [ninth_of_two@yahoo.com]
Thu Aug 20 11:48:08 AM
IP: h24-64-138-38.mt.wave.shaw.ca
Sevarius Jr., "I feel your pain." Just work your jaw out, you'll be fine..., uhh right, anyway, I meant to say that Sata won't return my calls, I see her in public and she just ignores me..., I'm not mad at her though. Oh, I think "Darkwing Duck" and "Bonkers" should've been on that list. "Bonkers" was cool until they got rid of Lucky. Crazy D, I think you did freak out Greg.
Hey, on a personal note, Yall, I think I messed myself up bad. Jackal's seriously concerned about his well being. Man, I got in serious trouble with my suga-lump 2day, now I'm about to wake her up and say, "By the way, can you take me to the ER?" Heh heh, Oh God help me, someone pray for me?
jackal
ga, usa
Thu Aug 20 12:29:18 AM
IP: spider-to062.proxy.aol.com
SJ: Yeah, but no way in hell do you miss her as much as me. That woman has changed my life for the better majorly. To put it in Forgotten Realms deity terms, she's made me feel like I'm living with Tymora, Sehanine Moonbow, Sune, The Red Knight, Loviatar, Lloth, Aerdrie Faenya, Mystra, Selune, Mielikki, Waukeen, Llira, and Hanali Celanil all at the same time and merged into the same person who is my soulmate (good goddesses dominant of course!). I can hardly wait till Friday when I get to see more of her than just loving e-mails. And right now, I am sure her heart is singing "Austin Rain" (Heather Nova's song "London Rain" with different city mentioned) as she feels the same way I do. God, how I yearn for and need her more than any woman I've loved before, and I know this passion will never end and only increase as time goes on, no matter what happens. It's till death do us part for us two, even if we're far from getting married formally, we already are in heart, mind, and spirit. She completes me, without her I am a force to be reckoned with but together we are unstoppable and truly the ultimate team. Sigh, why must the wait till I see Lisa again be so long? I need to speak to her, hear her voice, feel her in my arms and hers around mine, her lips against my own and her tongue gently probing my mouth as her passion answers my own, feel her touching me, feel her eyes on me... (Suddenly a fist flys out of nowhere and hits Doug on the cheek, slapping him out of the getting-too-involved romance talk. He thanks Jim, and continues on with currently more important things.) Hope your sister is feeling better now, and continue to lay the guilt on if you like. It doesn't bother me in the least. Heh heh.
Coyote: Just got done with the latest installment. Good job, especially on Angela's character development. When she hit Rosanna in the back like that, I dropped my jaw in shock. I'm worried just how good she's gonna stay even though the clan's welcomed her back into its ranks. She can't stay bad forever, but... And now that Demona's charmed Samson, uh oh. Somebody needs to find her magical library and take a flamethrower to the place!! Hope to see more from you soon, and I have more possibly good news: Lisa has informed me in her latest e-mail that she has now taken the time to fully develop the physical descriptions and personalities for Clan Austin, the group of gargoyles that have taken shape in her imagination since she began posting here at my suggestion. She'll have them for WCC when she returns. Hope Gore has the clearing feature set up by Friday, because her comeback post is probably going to be huge!
Kathy: Alright, thanks for the go ahead. Now if I can only find the right filk tune...
Later all!
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Thu Aug 20 12:28:21 AM
IP: hd71-191.hil.compuserve.com
O Sorry, forgot to ask! Nine of Two, concerning your name VII is it a Borg name or something else? I was just I curious!
I I Bye all!
Apollo - [ORF4@aol.com]
VA, USA
Wed Aug 19 11:52:40 PM
IP: 171-152-133.ipt.aol.com
Well, I sent my letter as well! Can't be too lengthy, but I would like to give my top 5 cartoons, in no particular order! What can I say, I love them all so much! :) *Gargoyles *Darkwing Duck *Batman: TAS *Animaniacs *Rocky and Bullwinkle
I can't think of a single episode of any of these that I did not enjoy thoroughly.
I am leaving for a day, but I am looking for some WAV files concerning the Pheonix Gate. If anyone has something they could mail me, twould be much appreciated! :) Thanx
Apollo - [ORF4@aol.com]
VA, USA
Wed Aug 19 11:46:42 PM
IP: 171-152-133.ipt.aol.com
Uh oh...hmmm...well, I suppose now is not the time for me to tell you that I liked the old G.I.Joe show...But you shouldn't feel too bad about Wizard not mentioning Gargoyles. They're mainly a fanboy magazine, so I'm sure the 25 they listed were all based on comics (I know that Gargoyles was briefly a comic, but it was mainly a cartoon show). I haven't seen that issue, but I'm willing to bet that stuff like Spiderman and Xmen were probably listed. They were decent shows, but c'mon, where else you gonna find a show that not only has great action, but teaches world history (and even a little Shakespeare) and promotes positive morals? Only in Gargoyles my friend. (by the way, I've seen Spawn, and I've seen Gargoyles, and Keith's Goliath could whup his Spawn any day of the week)
Doug: I'm SORRY! I've had a rough week, plus my younger sister was sick this past weekend, so I had to take care of her (while all of you were having fun at the Gathering...gee, I'm not laying the guilt on too thick am I?), and I guess I'm still a little stressed out. Forgive me, my meds didn't kick in soon enough. Frankly, though, I think it's all just cause I miss Lisa ;-)
Ninth of two (? waitta minute howja get nine from two????) I'd just like to welcome you here to the site. I know I'm a little late with the welcome, but hey, my motto's always been "Why do today what you can put off till tomorrow." Didn't Ben Franklin write that?
AND FINALLY...Gorelisa, why won't you talk to me? You never call, you never write...I will not be IGNORED, Gore, do you understand me??? Do you??!!
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wed Aug 19 11:25:51 PM
IP: client-151-200-126-165.bellatlantic.net
**Having calmed down considerably, Coyote enters the room.**
Thank you to all of you who have supported my rant against Wizard Press.
And as long as I'm here, I'm just informing all you folks who are interested that G:CM volume #14, "Prodigals," is now
available on the G:CM main site. Follow my name link to go directly to the story. (And isn't it awesome? It's up a day early!!)
**Coyote leaves, gaily beating up on an effigy of Gareb Shamus (Wizard Press' CEO) just outside the door.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Wed Aug 19 09:35:57 PM
IP: 207.91.254.68
*kathy skips her signature pic in deference to the over full comment room*
Doug (and anybody else who wants to) The TGS staff loves mail. Please be our guest. Send us your filk and your comments. Just don't send us plot ideas. We can't accept outside submissions for story lines etc. TGS season 2 has been scripted and the eps are either in or nearing post production.
*Hint to the readers* If you haven't read all of last season's Gargoyles you should.
*kathy bolts out of the room before she's tempted to drop a real teaser type comment.*
kathy - [kpogge@atl.mediaone.net]
Wed Aug 19 07:48:46 PM
IP: client38034.atl.mediaone.net
If bevis and butlick are in the top 25, I would hate to see thier BOTTOM 25 list!
I am thinking of having a tee-shirt printed for me:
"I went to New York and all I got was this lousy flu"
I feel terrible. And I have to work tomorrow! (Joy!)
And remember: The link still goes to Gorelisa!
Fire Storm - [GatheringJ@aol.com]
Wed Aug 19 07:29:24 PM
IP: 174-168-68.ipt.aol.com
Whoops, I meant to say when Spike came on to Elisa. Sorry.
Doug
Wed Aug 19 07:26:32 PM
IP: hd51-183.hil.compuserve.com
(Until Gore gets this page clearing again, Doug is toning down on the Blaise-isms to save post length. He just walks in to say his piece without any big entrance.)
There, hope I gave Gore some more incentive. I know my entrances and exits are usually very interesting and since Blaise may be going away, someone has to do what he made famous. Might as well be me (and Lisa, and anyone else, if they so decide).
Spike: Thanks for saving me the trouble of hunting through the archive at www.gargoyles-fans.org when I got the time. For months, I've been promising myself I would check out Leva's fanfic, and now I have even more reason to. When I get time, I will. With school starting in a week, I don't know how soon I'll be able to read it, but I swear it will happen. And I'm sure I'll enjoy the experience. Already skimmed through "Beastly Knights," and no, the premise is not the same as my idea for Vincent and Talon. So I'll still be doing the story if nobody else does it before I finish the next three, which I've told myself must come first. Haven't thought of a title yet, but I know I will do it between "Masterpiece," and "Clash of the Titans." Maybe I'll make references to "Beastly Knights" within the tale if Leva will let me. I already have plans to draw on material from the only other Gargs/Beauty&Beast crossover I'm aware of, the great and wonderful Merlin Missy's "All Through the Night" (With disclaimer mention of course). Thanks AOT for posting the picture of me as Richard Harrisson. One last thing, I just got done reading "Impossible Dream." It is your best yet! I found myself missing the Spikester so much, and when he came to Elisa I laughed harder than I have in a long time. Thank you for bringing me that experience. And I can hardly wait for the next one!
SJ: Man, you have snapped. Lisa is probably going to give you a major counseling when she gets back on Friday. Better brace yourself. Sorry if I offended you with the sitting on your ass remark. As you know, before determination, boredom, a desire to meet Greg and at least some of my fellow fans face to face and vist New York, a lot of extra money, and Lisa's suggestion I go ahead and go kicked in, I was planning to not go to the Gathering either. Thank God I listened to all that instead of my earlier crazy and stupid idea!
Coyote: Jim was rough with you? I specifically told him to ask you nicely! Boy, is he gonna get it!! (Though, because he's a nightclub bouncer and works out much more often than I do I probably won't be able to back up my words with action too well.) Oh well, thanks for the money. At least now my fictional boss at the pizzeria (I really don't work for one, I'm back to being an understandably unemployed college student) will stop yelling at me about it. In other news, I've just finished the "Escape from Avalon" scene in "Choices," my next work of fanfiction. Next up, Puck's serpent prank and the introduction of Sycamore and the Swamp Forest clan of gargoyles. Soon, though how soon I cannot yet say, you'll be better able to write the characters I gave you for WCC. Look forward to your next installment on Clan Manhattan.
Top Cartoons: Okay, Wizworks, you are in serious trouble. Mr. Carter, please!! (And I ain't loading him with cream this time!!) Man, has their refusal to ackowledge Greg's masterpiece and our passion got me steamed. So steamed I feel like posting my own feelings on the top twenty-five cartoons of all time, based on personal opinion of what I've seen so far in this lifetime. Here goes:
1. Simpsons. 2. Gargoyles. 3. Batman: The Animated Series. 4. He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. 5. Transformers. 6. Invasion America. 7. Looney Tunes. 8. Sailor Moon. 9. Ninja Turtles. 10. Thundercats. 11. SilverHawks. 12. The Real Ghostbusters. 13. GI Joe (the original, not its truly unspeakable sucessor, GI Joe Extreme, which was worse than TGC plot and character wise). 14. Beavis and Butthead.
15. X-Men. 16. Scooby Doo. 17. Tale Spin. 18. Duck Tales. 19. Flintstones. 20. Jetsons. 21. Spiderman. 22. Gummi Bears. 23. Bullwinkle and associates. 24. Jonny Quest (old and new series). 25. Yogi Bear and associates.
There, got that steam off my chest. Now to e-mail Wizworks and unleash more of it!
(Doug leaves, rage boiling on his features as he contemplates how exactly to make Wizworks regret its error.)
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Wed Aug 19 07:24:38 PM
IP: hd51-183.hil.compuserve.com
I'm back!!
Coyote>>G.I. Joe?!? God help us all! Let us storm the gates of the fortress of Wizard Works and put and end to this evil! I'm with you!
Ninth of Two>>Welcome! Hope you can keep your sanity around us! ;)
Gotta go again! Bye!
Ravyn Maza
Arizona
Wed Aug 19 06:32:42 PM
IP: svm-ts7-11.c2i2.com
**Coyote stomps into the room, looking furious, and not just because one of Doug's muscle-bound companions just shook him down for $800 to pay for the WCC characters' pizzas.**
All right, there's something that I've just seen that has raised my ire considerably, and I'm sure it will raise yours, as well.
I just picked up a recent Wizard Press publication, "Toons," which focuses solely on animation (TV, movies, etc.). Among the features in this magazine were a list of their top 25 cartoons of all time, and an article about the voice actors on the series "Spawn" (the main one of which is your friend and mine, Keith David.).
The first thing that made me mad: In the "Spawn" article, no mention was ever made of Mr. David's previous work on "Gargoyles" or anything else, while everybody else at least had a mention of live-action films and TV series they had made.
The second one is what really did it: "Gargoyles" did NOT make their top 25 cartoons of all time!
How is this possible, you ask? They had to make room for such unspeakable crap (IMPO) as:
Dungeons & Dragons
Beavis and Butt-Head
Ren & Stimpy
Battle of the Planets
and (God help us!!) G.I. Joe.
What do we do about this? I suggest that we, the loyal fans of "Gargoyles" who love the show even though it's been off TV for over a year, deluge Wizard's E-mail box with pro-"Gargoyles" messages.
If you want to jump in, Wizard's editorial e-mail addy is:
WizWords@aol.com
Let's stand up for our favorite guys! I'm sending my message as soon as this gets posted.
**Coyote exits smiling, feeling surprisingly cleansed.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Wed Aug 19 06:03:02 PM
IP: 207.91.254.50
Thanks Mary
ninth of two - [ninth_of_two@yahoo.com]
Wed Aug 19 05:40:06 PM
IP: h24-64-138-38.mt.wave.shaw.ca
Doug - thanks. Very nice to be welcomed.
ninth of two - [ninth_of_two@yahoo.com]
Wed Aug 19 05:34:58 PM
IP: h24-64-138-38.mt.wave.shaw.ca
Yeah Doug, there has been a Gargoyles/Beauty of the Beast crossover before. Don't know if it follows the same premise as your idea. AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION, SOME OF US HAD PERSONAL COMMITMENTS THAT KEPT US FROM GOING TO THE GATHERING, SO NO MATTER HOW HARD WE TRIED WE COULDN'T COME, SO WE WEREN'T, _REPEAT_ WE WERE NOT JUST SITTING ON OUR ASSES!
There, I feel so much better. The prozac is finally working this time.
And, to Gore....are you free for dinner Friday night?
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wed Aug 19 03:46:46 PM
IP: client-151-200-125-78.bellatlantic.net
Doug>> Yep, a Gargoyles/Beauty & The Beast crossover has been done and very well indeed. Check out "Beastly Knights" by Leva Mevis over at the gargoyles-fan.org fanfic archive. Look for her sequel to "Beastly Knights" coming soon!!
And while I do in fact grrrrrrrrrrrowl, I never bite.
Unless asked nicely. >:)
Spike
Wed Aug 19 03:38:44 PM
IP: dal-mm5-2246.cmpu.net
Just three things to say this time:
1. I have a fanfic idea kicking around in my head that I don't know if anyone has already done. If someone has, great, they saved me the trouble. If not, I'll be happy to turn this idea into another story. Since there are many fanfic readers prowling this page, I thought I'd ask y'all. The idea is for a Gargoyles/Beauty and the Beast crossover where Vincent meets and joins forces with the Labyrinth's other beast-men, the Mutates. Does anyone know if someone has done this already? I don't want to unknowingly copy anybody's ideas. If you know, please tell me whether or not. Thanks.
2. Message to Gore: Your costume was great, daring, excellent, hilarious. The developer guy down at Eckerds is going to freak when he sees! Now that you're home, though, you have a special mission. What is it? Get the repost and clearing features back on this page asap! I have lots of things to say, but am keeping them unsaid until their length won't make this room humongous! And I'm sure it's likewise for other people out there! Come on and make it so we can let our demons out!
3. ninth of two: Welcome to the wild, wacky, and amazing world of Gargoyles fandom! Hope the experience is an enjoyable one!!
Later all!!
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Wed Aug 19 02:32:29 PM
IP: chi-dnnve-087.il.compuserve.net
**Ravyn walks in with a big grin on her face, then can't hold it back any longer and bursts out laughing, rolling on the floor giggling** I just saw some rather interesting Gathering pics, but **giggle** GORE AS ELISA?!? **Ravyn bursts out laughing again** That was funny!! **she laughs some more, then finally regains her composure and walks out of the room** See ya'll later! **a chuckle can be heard as Ravyn leaves**
Ravyn Maza
Arizona
Wed Aug 19 12:11:45 PM
IP: svm-ts3-8.c2i2.com
Lady Mystic and/or FireStorm > but why? We're just regular folks, me and Spike! Regular goddess-upon-the-earth kind of folks ... no, really, we don't bite. Well, Spike doesn't. As far as I know. And me, I've never left a mark that a little ointment and a Band-Aid couldn't fix right up ... Anyway (clears throat). Sorry we didn't get a chance to talk!
Mary > nuts? Yep. But in a good way! ; )
Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Wed Aug 19 11:47:47 AM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net
Ninth of two> The Rising is the next season of TGS. To have any idea about what happens you better read last season's TGS
To those who went to the Gathering in costumes> No offence, but I think you're all a little nuts ;)
Mary Flanders
Wed Aug 19 10:56:28 AM
IP: stk-ras1-21-215.thegrid.net
What's the Rising?
ninth of two - [ninth_of_two@yahoo.com]
Wed Aug 19 10:19:50 AM
IP: h24-64-138-38.mt.wave.shaw.ca
47 days until the Rising.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wed Aug 19 07:27:08 AM
IP: pn3-ppp-102.primary.net
Christine: Friday?! YESSSS!!! I can't wait to recieve it in the mail! :D
Oh...
Christine AND Spike: Fire Storm is a BIG fan. He said he was too shy to talk to both of you more. He's kind of upset about blowing his chances ...
Thanks everyone who responded to my request for help about the co-workers and Gargoyles ep's thing. You helped a lot. Thanks. :)
Everyone from the Gathering: Welcome back! I hope all of you plan to share your own accounts of what went on. Please! :)
Demona debate: I'm not even going to put my 2 cents into this topic. I've said the basics of my opinions on this before and I have no urges to get into the arguement. (And besides, mentioning my ideas on the topic would make my usually long posts too long even for me. <G>)
Starsinger's back! Hi Theresa! :)
TGS Staff: Out of curiosity, what's the scoop on the room being cleared? Don't worry, I'm not being impatient. I understand the reasoning for the delay (Gathering, RL, TGS work, ...). And what's the decision on the matter of the CR pics' sizes? (I noticed I was the only one (at least that I know of) that answered that question.)
Lady Mystic - [TJSSLSSAS@aol.com]
Dearborn, MI
Wed Aug 19 05:34:52 AM
IP: 204-136-253.ipt.aol.com
(Doug walks in, dragging behind him several wagons full of pizza. He screams out an order and Coyote's many WCC characters come and relieve him of it.)
You owe me a lot of money for this, Coyote!
Here's some new stuff:
Sevarius Jr.: Geez, I didn't know I was supposed to record all that! Okay, what I usually ate for breakfast was the Big Breakfast Combo at McDonalds, and I usually got the other two meals there or at the Tick-Tock Diner next door to the hotel. I can't tell you anything about the digestive process. Here's the top five worst Gathering moments.
5. It rained the last day and I walked in it, ignoring the fact that it ruined all my book covers beyond repair until it was too late. At least my film was waterproof!
4. When Gore's 'boobs' popped at the masquerade. It was funny and all, but poor guy!
3. When Salli didn't show up. We were all so disappointed. Maybe next year...
2. Being grilled for information like this by the people who couldn't get off their asses and come!
1. Having to say goodbye to everyone when it was over and come back to Austin and real life. Augh!! For a while, I'll just be seeing everyone on the Internet!
Kathy: Part 2? I can hardly wait. Oh and by the way, I may soon write an Unseelie Ride filk. Mind if I send it to the TGS staff by e-mail? (If not, I'll just post it here.)
Shameless Plug: Anyone read my fanfic and wondered what some of the new characters look like (besides my description text)? Just e-mail me and I can send you pictures of them, even though they're ones that aren't drawn very well. Currently on file- O'Neil, Seth, Laura, all the named Commandos but three, Silvan Farrow, and the yet-to-be-introduced Changeling. Coming next when I feel like drawing them: Future World Terrorism Alliance leaders and current Iluminati high-ups Benito Cruz and Nick Mackovic. Then I'll probably do some of the Zenthrans, my universe's space spawn. But stories must come first! (Duh) (end shameless plug)
See y'all in cyberspace!
(Doug jets out, pulling the wagons behind and pursued by several very angry WCC characters who didn't like the cold pizza.)
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Wed Aug 19 05:31:24 AM
IP: hd11-021.hil.compuserve.com
VERY important! Click my link for a picture of Gorelisa!
Fire Storm - [GatheringJ@aol.com]
Dearborn, Michigan, Earth
Wed Aug 19 02:39:46 AM
IP: 200-26-177.ipt.aol.com
Here is a preliminary site for some Gathering Pics. Hope you get a kick out of them. Once again, I have posted a pic of what Elisa SHOULD look like as compared to Gore (Affectionately known as Gorelisa)
I will add more when I get my film developed. :)
CrzyDemona - [<---- Gathering Masquerade Pics!]
Tue Aug 18 10:14:22 PM
IP: host1.sn180-3.sysci.org
I will be writing and posting my full account of the Gathering tomorrow. It was a great time, and yes, Gore was Elisa, and he was _magnificent_! ; )
In other news, the book should be here on Friday! Thanks to all who just couldn't wait to give me money and ordered their advance copies at the Gathering! They'll go in the mail as soon as I get them and sign them!
Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Tue Aug 18 09:12:29 PM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net
Damn! Yall, Apollo is like, one of my internet buddies. And like any other buddy, I'm gonna defend him. Even though I'm on the verge of 22, I can learn a thing or 2 from him! Now he's been busy bustin his ass, and don't think he really has the time to look for 1 sentence in an entire room, ya know what I'm sayin? Now I'm not mad, I'm just voicin my opinion. Yall saw how I defended Demona, even though I know she's wrong, I feel like she's my buddy, therefore I'll defend her, that's just the way I am. Just like (in contradiction to Demona), I defended Brooklyn, Now (even at my age), Brooklyn's my role model. I don't care what anybody has to say about that, a gargoyle is my role model! *Jackal snaps his fingers* And let me tell ya somethin else! Next year's Gathering is in Dallas, TX? I will be there as sure as the sun will rise, I know that area, my home away from home! Now, smoke that! I'm out!
Jackal
Ga, Usa
Tue Aug 18 09:06:20 PM
IP: spider-wb052.proxy.aol.com
Sorry about that Todd. I guess you didn't notice, I'm not in here very much, busy schedule. If there is message that is improtant to the CR maybe you should find a way to post it at the top or something else so people always see it. You can hardly hold someone accountable for something they never see.
Man, with the Gathering 99 in Dallas, I can be there for sure. That rocks!
Apollo - [ORF4@aol.com]
VA, USA
Tue Aug 18 08:36:52 PM
IP: 173-148-7.ipt.aol.com
You know people, the one thing about Demona that everyone, including me, has forgotten is: Demona is NOT human. Her value system and judgement is not human nor is her logic. When reading Christine Morgan's story of Demona and Jerico as lovers, I had to work the logic of Gargoyles don't know their own children. Yes, you can tell a lot by coloring and some facial/wing/body features. Their being lovers in the Middle ages would have been mildly scandalous, but only because of the older female/younger male scenario. Gargoyles primarily take their mates from their hatchmates, not from other memebers of their clan.
I still don't see Demona at totally evil. We never found out what the Archmage did to her to turn her off to humans. It couldn't be just the beast comments and the attitude of the humans. Something besides betraying her clan scarred her deeply. We just don't know what it was.
Does anyone have a text version of the Gargoyle font. I need it for a project and unless I can get a text version to print on my printer, I have no way of storing it. Thanks for sharing the Gathering with us. Just let everyone know when we can hit your websites for pictures of Gore as Elisa and the other wining costumes and all the fun we missed.
Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Tue Aug 18 08:07:19 PM
IP: proxy-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net
Hi everybody! It was great fun to meet some of you all at the Gathering.
Doug > I'm glad that you liked The Rising part 1, but as they say, hold on to your hat because The Rising part 2 (IMHO) really rocks!
Keep counting down to Ragnorok!
kathy - [kpogge@atl.mediaone.net]
Tue Aug 18 07:15:03 PM
IP: client38034.atl.mediaone.net
Hey, Doug's back! C'mon Elder, you gotta give us a more detailed report than that. I wanna know EVERTYTHING about the trip. You hear me? I wanna know when you ate breakfast, what you ate, and just what time it completed the digestive process. I want details!
And if I get to go to the Gathering next year, I warn all of you I will be going to the costume party as Princess Katherine. Or one of the Weird Sisters. Depends on whether or not I can find a pretty dress.
And on a side note to Coyote, I'm going to be emailing you my very own Gargoyle clan for When Clans Collide soon, so look for it.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tue Aug 18 05:38:02 PM
IP: client-151-200-125-233.bellatlantic.net
Mary - sort of. I started watching it when it started but they changed the time slot and I couldn't find out when it was on. And sometimes I just couldn't understand what's going on because I'd miss a couple of shows and get totally lost.
I was never even into Gargoyles that much. The only way I got really interested in it was when I saw that some of the Star Trek people did the voices.
ninth of two
Tue Aug 18 04:24:36 PM
IP: h24-64-143-141.mt.wave.shaw.ca
All right, I'm intrigued: Someone tell me more about Gore's costume! I hear he went as ELISA?!? I can only imagine what _that_ must have looked like...
Ravyn Maza
Arizona
Tue Aug 18 02:37:59 PM
IP: svm-ts2-6.c2i2.com
Alright everyone, I'm back!! From the Gathering!!
Here's a list of the best Gathering moments:
1. Getting to hear the TGS season preimere. That was excellent and a great start to the new season. I can hardly wait to find out what happens next in there. Unseelies riding down Broadway, ouch. And good news- Liz is back!
2. Gore's costume. It was very daring and hilarious. I'm not gonna say more, except that we all had a great laugh over it. I hope we see something equally as funny next year.
3. Getting to meet so many great people face to face.
4. Getting to meet Greg, and learning just how much he enjoys Gargoyles, the fandom, etc. He is one great guy, and I hope he gets to continue to do his Gargoyles project soon.
5. Greg showing us the original plans for Bad Guys and New Olympians. That was very interesting to learn and will help bring more flavor to many people's fanfic.
6. Alan and Jennifer Andersen's great Macbeth and Demona costumes. Man, did they go all out!
7. Batya's song when it was all over- "Glory, Glory, Jalapena. Glory, Glory, Jalapena. Glory, Glory, Jalapena, the fans are going home."
Sevarius Jr.: I like the Gargoyles villians, too. Especially Xanatos, who in some ways is still a bad guy. Like Greg said at the Gathering, his motives have changed but not his methods. He still has a long way to go before he can become fully a good guy. If you've read some of my fanfic, you'll know I try to show that aspect of his character as much as I can. Speaking of fanfic, I'll get back to that as soon as I can. Lots of other things to do first now that I'm back.
I'll go get started on them...Later!
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Tue Aug 18 02:24:15 PM
IP: hd15-140.hil.compuserve.com
Ninth of two> oh yeah, no there won't be any new episodes. The show is in reruns. :( You must be new to watching the show. R U?
Mary Flanders
Tue Aug 18 02:04:01 PM
IP: stk-hras2-21-128.thegrid.net
Ninth of two> It's a Gargoyles convention.
Mary Flanders
Tue Aug 18 01:58:22 PM
IP: stk-hras2-21-128.thegrid.net
Yeah, and um.. what's the Gathering?
ninth of two
Tue Aug 18 12:50:42 PM
IP: h24-64-143-141.mt.wave.shaw.ca
<b>Coyote: </b>Thanks. It's nice to be welcomed.
I don't know if anyone else said anything to me or anything that concerned me so I won't make any comments about anything else. Except for are they going to have new episodes of the series? And sorry for the two thingies that came after what I said last night. I just wanted to see what the pictures looked like.
ninth of two - [ninth_of_two@yahoo.com]
Tue Aug 18 12:48:38 PM
IP: h24-64-143-141.mt.wave.shaw.ca
48 days until the Rising.
*sigh* I specifically asked people here to stop filling out the long survey forms at this place, since it makes a site that can currently not be cleared extremely bulky and unwieldy. I see that I have been ignored by Apollo. So I'm going to repeat my request again: please do not post anything particularly long here until we can get the clearing mechanism working again, and use it to start up a fresh new comment room.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tue Aug 18 07:58:02 AM
IP: pn9-ppp-177.primary.net
<<if you really did those things against people who've not hurt you or another, then you are a bully.>>
Of course I had "relative" just cause. I just don't go around lookin for trouble.
<<if you are telling me you would kill them, the same way Demona tried to, then you are a murderer>>
Be at ease..., to date, I've haven't had to take a life...., yet! hahahhahahhahaa
<<she said that she had a spell that would make him see things clearer.>>
The spell was complex, if seeing clearer meant taking away one's free will, then so be it.
<<his crime was one of stupidity, not one of weak morality.>>
Defending Brooklyn, I'd say more innocence than stupidity.
<<Demona started it. She sure did>>
Nope, nope, nope.
<<DALLAS GATHERING 99>>
Is that Dallas, Tx? Good, I'll be there for no other reason, because I have asses to kick down there! Hahahahahaha
All right..., Being I'm gettin no help, I'll forfeit this round. Goodie goodies......
Jackal
Ga, Usa
Tue Aug 18 06:48:43 AM
IP: spider-te032.proxy.aol.com
Jackal> <Even though I'm not a gargoyle, I'm sittin here with my eyes hella glowin. Aris, you mean to tell me you never did a wrongful act for someone you love? >
Still young; I've not fallen in love so many times.
<Because personally, I can't say that! I may be as scrawny as Brooklyn (Pre Timedancer), but I HAVE kicked the a**es of ex-boyfriends, took a bat and busted out windows to their homes and cars, I'm not crazy, I was just doin what I was told to do by my mate, (at that time). >
Forgive me, but if you really did those things against people who've not hurt you or another, then you are a bully. I won't excuse you the same way I've not excused Demona. And if you are telling me you would kill them, the same way Demona tried to, then you are a murderer. Sorry. I'll hope this is just a misunderstanding on my part.
>> As far as that cloning thing goes, I believe it was all Thailog and he influenced Demona to be apart of it.
We've not seen any real evidence for that. It may have been a mutual decision.
< <<immobilized.. guards with a net;.. then kills them even when they can't harm her>>
They would have followed, it was to her advantage to take them out then and there. >
Ofcourse it was to her advantage! That's why people do evil things; because it's to their advantage! That's why Hitler began World War II, because he thought it would be to his advantage! But it's also morally wrong. Killing the guards who did nothing but protect a warehouse was also morally wrong.
<<Have you seen Temptation? She lied to him; and she planned to enslave Goliath forever to her will..>>
Yes, I can tell you every word and make every sound effect in that episode, I love it! But I did NOT hear Demona tell the first lie! I personally believe Demona when she said "This is only temporary, we can protect him for his naivety until we reach our goals." UNTIL WE REACH OUR GOALS!!!
Her previous words were lies, when she said that she had a spell that would make him see things clearer. She had a spell which would enslave him. She lied to Brooklyn and used him.
< <<When did Goliath or Brooklyn betray her?>>
Let's start with Goliath..., "Awakenings" part 5? When Goliath whined about seeing his human friend, he was putting the clan in danger, he did not know this woman, he plianly chose to trust this strange human over his mate! Of course that made her mad. >
That's not betrayal. And your continuously referring to her as 'human' is wrong IMO. People should be judged based on their actions, not through Demona's racist reasoning. Saying she cannot be trusted in part because she's human, is racist.
<ow Brooklyn..., He could have said, Hey I don't like this plan. Hello?!! Red flags should've went up with the mention of a spell. Brooklyn knew good and well what he was doing, and he started gettin scared as soon as everything ACTUALLY started happening, he let the fear put his a** into place. >
I've already replied to that. She had lied to him, and she saw what was truly happening.
He betrayed Demona because he got too scared, she told him "The spell required is complex." But he couldn't and wouldn't understand what Demona was trying to do.
Brooklyn acted as a buffoon prior in that episode. But his crime was one of stupidity, not one of weak morality.
< <<Demona was Goliath's second in command, she should obey him>>
Now, Demona did take the role of leader in the Airship, but why shouldn't she? She has more experince with what was going on than both Goliath and Hudson combined. >
A) Because she was not chosen, or agreed upon. One does not assume leadership B) Because her choices have been catastrophical C)Because she's evil D) Because if they were to believe her, she spent 1000 years as stone and had no more experience than they did.
< The Captin of the Gaurd situation was all Goliath's fault! >
The Captain was a traitor. The death of dozens of gargoyles is his fault and probably dozens of humans as well. And it's also Demona's fault, who was too coward to warn off Coldstone and the others, but taking herself to safety nonetheless.
Sevarius Jr> How many episodes have you seen with Xanatos after he turned good? None. A couple of episodes showed him briefly, and he wasn't central to either. Demona turning good could also be very well done. Her hatred, like in Castaway's case, is mostly self-hatred though she doesn't understand it yet. Her understanding this could be the key to her salvation.
Theresa> I think that the way TGS handled Demona is one of its greatest flaws. They've made her (and Xanatos IMO) far too good. Mistreating her employees frankly isn't good enough. She's still quite evil and should be presented as such...
Aris Katsaris - [Katsaris@otenet.gr]
Tue Aug 18 06:01:48 AM
IP: athe530-e062.otenet.gr
Greetings>> 16,000 people have come to the TGS site since the counter was set. That's a lot of hits people. Not all of them coming to this room.
Demona betrayed her clan by going behind the back of her leader Goliath. She conspired with the Captain of the Guard to betray her protectorate, the castle and the people in it. You say Goliath had to no reason to trust Elisa. When he was vulnerable during the day and the Goon Squad loose,
she stayed with him. She didn't know he turned to stone during the day, she only knew that he needed to be kept safe. I think that shows that Elisa early on, had the beginings of a true gargoyle friend. Demona started it. She sure did. She was born and everything she did was dependent on that little know biological fact. If she hadn't been born none of this could have happened. (Next story.)
It's late/early should be in bed but can't sleep.
DALLAS GATHERING 99. YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES. I will be calm. Ten month until Gathering 99.
Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Tue Aug 18 05:04:57 AM
IP: proxy-127.iap.bryant.webtv.net
A few Q's: How smart are Gargoyles beasts really? And does anyone else feel that Cavall in Pendragon is just a token character?
Jackel -
<<She violated the members of her former clan, taken their DNA and creating the clones.>>
>She was blindly in love and would have done anything for Thailog. <
Oh, come on! She said it herself, she did the whole thing to try to win over Angela, she could care less about her own clan, and when it came down to it, Thailog as well.
<<She's shattered the trust in both Brooklyn and Goliath, betraying them personally..>>
>They betrayed HER. As much as I like Brooklyn, yes, he betrayed HER!<
Well, I think there has been enough betrayal to go around, but at the risk of sounding childish, SHE STARTED IT! :)
<<If it is that I'm-jealous-because-he-used-to-be-mine-and-now-he-is-yours thing, I just don't buy it!>>
>Wouldn't you be mad? You wait thousand years for your man and some human bimbo gets him? I'd want to kill her too!<
Well, gee, it isn't like Goliath didn't except her with total open arms and trust when they were reunited in Awakenings, no, nothing like that!
>I have yet to hear Demona tell a lie. Aside from explaining how she survived all those centuries.<
1) "it was the humans who betrayed us" 2) to Angela during "the Clone Wars"
and many other instances where she has mislead and distorted things to fit into her little hate-filled vision of the world
um......sorry if I am picking on you too much, :0
Sevarius Jr.
>>I find it very refreshing and uplifting that there are those of us here who want to see the inherent good that exists in Demona....but come on, she's a total evil bitch. A thousand Angela's ain't gonna change that.<<
I have to agree I guess, she may try to be good for Angela but I think the best to hope for is that she will help the good guys in an evil way, like the answer to The Rising is to just nuke Avalon or something.
Survey Time I guess:
What do YOU do when your computer acts disobediently? Reset it many times
What do you do when it talks back to you? Turn off the Volume, Reset in mant times
What does it say? Beep, Beep, Beep
What do you do when it punishes YOU? "beep beep beep"
What do you do to punish it back? Reset it many times
What's Your Hobbies: ReadingWritingSwimmingTennisThinking nothing as glorious as stamps
Favorite Activities (Keep it clean): Same as above, chess, chatting online, making $$$$
Most Favorite Meal(s): Shrimp, Corn, Chewy Chips Ohoy w/ Milk,
What's Your Zodiac Sign? Cancer (July 1st)
What do you like and dislike about your sign? Bad name, good karma, lousy luck
What do you like and dislike about other zodiac signs? No preference
What's Your Element? Water
What do you like and dislike about your element? Weak but fair, can't live without it, shallow far too often
Favorite Quote -Yours: "There is more of you nothing than there is of you anything."
Someone else's: "The best ideas come when you think"
Most Annoying Pet-Peeve: Cotton balls inside medicine containers, what's the point?
Favorite Animal Pet Name: Abercrombie (after a dog)
Least Favorite Pet Name: Fluffy
Favorite Type of Animal Pet: CATS!!!!!!
Least Favorite Animal Pet: Spiders or Snakes
Favorite Gargoyles Joke(s): Your loincloth is untied....
Favorite Joke(s) You Tell People: none
Favorite Computer Game And/Or Other Games: Monopoly, I love the classics
Favorite Magazine: Washington Post magazine, It has Dilbert
Favorite Word(s): Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz, Dociusaliexpiliciousfragacalirupus
Least Favorite Word(s): Putz, weasel, any -ism
What's the color of your blankie (blanket)? Actually, I have a stuffed Tiger, orange/black
How often do you visit this page per day or week? Every day if possible
How often do you visit other Gargoyles-related sites? Every now and then
Which ones do you visit? Random
Why and how gargoyle females have such skinny waists? That isn't a question
If a group of birds are called a flock and a group of cattle is called a herd -- What's a group a gargoyles gliding in the air called? A clan!
What's a group of garg-beasts called? A pack.
If Alex did an "Equality" thing to the twins, what do you think would be the first things they say after turning human?What do you think they would do during the day?Where would they go?What would they do? Ok, this one is getting run into the ground!
If Puck played a joke on Demona again (ala "The Mirror"), what do you think she might be turned into this time? A gargoyle beast. Sit Demona, Sit!
Why did the gargoyle cross the road? To get to the other protectorate....
Why do pens dry up or leak when you need them the most? Bad pen, bad!
Why do bad things happen in groups? Less people notice when they happen to just one
Is the grass always greener on someone else's lawn? Nope, you just don't have to cut it
Is the sky always bluer on someone else's planet? Not at night time
Are fish using our oceans and lakes for their own private toilets? - Are we?
Are You Going To The Gathering? After the fact, no
Are You Going Next Year? I had damn well better find a way!
K, I'm done. Good night!
Apollo - [ORF4@aol.com]
VA, USA
Tue Aug 18 02:59:18 AM
IP: 207-71-36.ipt.aol.com
Wow... finally back from the Gathering.
I think I am still in shock from last nights events. I knew I had a kick tail costume... but I NEVER in a million years expected to win the art show. I was up against the best of the best. Christi, Aimee, Kanth, RW.... wow. Well, my win there is a tribute to them all. If it wasnt for their influence I may have never picked up a pencil again... So I just want to tell them all thanks...
Gathering 1999!!! Well, we got the bid. I think we have some great leaders and organizers on the G99 staff and I am really looking forward to the opportunity to contribute to this.
My e-mail calleth... Talk to everyone soon!
CrzyDemona - [demonacrzy@aol.com]
Mon Aug 17 10:47:49 PM
IP: 201-178-145.ipt.aol.com
Even though I'm not a gargoyle, I'm sittin here with my eyes hella glowin. Aris, you mean to tell me you never did a wrongful act for someone you love? Because personally, I can't say that! I may be as scrawny as Brooklyn (Pre Timedancer), but I HAVE kicked the a**es of ex-boyfriends, took a bat and busted out windows to their homes and cars, I'm not crazy, I was just doin what I was told to do by my mate, (at that time). So forgive me if I don't see what Demona was doing wrong! I'm by no means a bad person, I'm also by no means a perfect person, I got my flaws and my worse one is my temper, (which my baby daughter is startin to develop), so you can forgive me if I take a liking to Demona and Brooklyn! As far as that cloning thing goes, I believe it was all Thailog and he influenced Demona to be apart of it.
<<immobilized.. guards with a net;.. then kills them even when they can't harm her>>
They would have followed, it was to her advantage to take them out then and there.
<<Have you seen Temptation? She lied to him; and she planned to enslave Goliath forever to her will..>>
Yes, I can tell you every word and make every sound effect in that episode, I love it! But I did NOT hear Demona tell the first lie! I personally believe Demona when she said "This is only temporary, we can protect him for his naivety until we reach our goals." UNTIL WE REACH OUR GOALS!!! I believe that, I have yet to hear Demona tell a lie. Aside from explaining how she survived all those centuries.
<<When did Goliath or Brooklyn betray her?>>
Let's start with Goliath..., "Awakenings" part 5? When Goliath whined about seeing his human friend, he was putting the clan in danger, he did not know this woman, he plianly chose to trust this strange human over his mate! Of course that made her mad. Now Brooklyn..., He could have said, Hey I don't like this plan. Hello?!! Red flags should've went up with the mention of a spell. Brooklyn knew good and well what he was doing, and he started gettin scared as soon as everything ACTUALLY started happening, he let the fear put his a** into place. He betrayed Demona because he got too scared, she told him "The spell required is complex." But he couldn't and wouldn't understand what Demona was trying to do.
<<Demona was Goliath's second in command, she should obey him>>
Now, Demona did take the role of leader in the Airship, but why shouldn't she? She has more experince with what was going on than both Goliath and Hudson combined.
<<It's your own explanation that's very weak IMO.>>
Every explaintion I have is "weak", that's because I like for people to use their brains and figure out what's being said...... The Captin of the Gaurd situation was all Goliath's fault!
<<Was I the only one cheering when she fell off the dam into the water? & Are Jackal and I the only guys in here who like the bad guys>>
Heh heh, though I don't wish Elisa dead, I could care LESS if she died! As a matter of fact, (I'm not tryin to build this up or tear it down before it begins), but in my fanfics, I purposely avoid Elisa where ever possible! As far as bad guys go, I'm gonna love to see what yall think about my original characters, because by the simple defintion of what yall interpert to be evil, Every..... Single..... Last.... One of my characters is evil. They say write what you know, what's that sayin about me? I'll be the frist to tell ya, I have a very dark series, Hell, I've written stories holding a cross! (I'm kidding)
<<what in hell are gargoyles?>>
Your worst nighmare! OR your best friends... Well I'm off to see what the President as to say....
Jackal
Ga, Usa
Mon Aug 17 09:39:54 PM
IP: spider-th053.proxy.aol.com
**Coyote enters the room, knuckles bleeding.**
No, this isn't from my car ... I've been doing an awful lot of drawing lately, trying to catch up on pics promised to WCC folks!
ninth_of_two: You're a new face around here, aren't you? Allow me to be the first to welcome you (if somebody else hasn't beaten me to it ;)). And to answer your questions ...
1) Gargoyles lasted two seasons in syndication, after which a third season called "The Goliath Chronicles" (which most fans agree wasn't really the best the concept had to offer) aired on Saturday mornings on ABC. But because of some programming concerns brought up by the Disney-appointed head of ABC's children's programming (who said outright that Gargoyles was a show that was "not meant for children to watch," despite a lot of educational content), it was canceled. The series has only seen the light of day as of late on USA Network, who has been rerunning the first two seasons. (An aside -- according to gargoyles-fans.org, Gargoyles is being moved to Toon Disney in the fall ... where does that leave us Toon Disney-less folks?!)
Anyway, I'm rambling (as usual, just ask some of the folks around here!). The point is that the only way Gargoyles has been kept alive is through the efforts of fanfiction writers, a lot of which comprise the staff of "The Gargoyles Chronicles," who follow the creator's original plan for the series and continue where the second season left off.
2) That was just an incredible coincidence. Originally, it was just the two (Marina Sirtis, Jonathan Frakes), but it soon branched out to other Starfleet vets (Nichelle Nichols (incidentally, I believe she was the only TOS Trekker to do a voice.), Michael Dorn, Brent Spiner, Avery Brooks, and even a pre-Voyager Kate Mulgrew). I don't really know if that was just a coicidence or if it was done by design, but I thought (IMHO) that was one of the coolest parts of the series, all of these recognizable voices showing up.
Hope that answers your questions. Some of the other folks here could probably answer them better than I can, I'm just standing out here on the fringe of things ...
**Coyote turns and leaves the room, wrapping up his bleeding fingers in athletic tape and groaning, "back to the drawing board ..."**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Mon Aug 17 09:36:42 PM
IP: 207.91.254.67
...
Anonymous
Mon Aug 17 08:58:06 PM
IP: h24-64-143-233.mt.wave.shaw.ca
test
what in hell are gargoyles?
Mon Aug 17 08:57:33 PM
IP: h24-64-143-233.mt.wave.shaw.ca
Yeah, uh.. one more thing. Why are the characters on the show voiced by Star Trek people? I don't really expect anyone to know or to care but I'd asked anyways. So..yeah. That's it. Unless I forgot to mention something in which case, I'll be back to make up for.
ninth_of_two - [ninth_of_two@yahoo.com]
Mon Aug 17 08:55:06 PM
IP: h24-64-143-233.mt.wave.shaw.ca
Do I have to write something long? Cause I don't know what to say. And I'll feel obligated to talk about nothing in particular just so I can take up space because that's what everyone else did. But yeah, no. That's not what I wanted to say. It's more of a question than a comment, really. What happened to the Gargoyles now? I don't see any new episodes. If you have any idea where or how I can get anything on this, please e-mail me or post back. Whichever. Thanks. :)
ninth_of_two - [ninth_of_two@yahoo.com]
Mon Aug 17 08:50:01 PM
IP: h24-64-143-233.mt.wave.shaw.ca
Spike>> You got to play that thrilling spectator sport in NYC. Dodge car. We play it alot out here in Albuquerque. Thanks also for giving us who had to stay behind, something enjoyable to read. The Impossible Dream was a delight, as well as the character outakes. (Spike flirting with Elisa and Goliath's being sooo upset *snicker*.
On the question of Demona's redemtion. You can be redeemed, but you have to be willing to make some hard and fast changes in your life. Demona is not yet at that stage. (Using the TGS series as background.) Reread how she is treating her employees at Nightstone. She has only toned down her hatred, not given it up. It took a lot out of her to call Elisa and ask about Angela. It would take very little for her to go berserk again. Right now Demona's on a hair edge. A little more kindness from the clan and Angela and while she could never go back to her innocence of a thousand years ago, she could activly stop hating humans. (Might take another thousand years.) Something happens to Angela and she would snap. And I don't think even the clan or Macbeth could stop her at that point.
My thoughts about a real complex character.
Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Mon Aug 17 06:26:34 PM
IP: proxy-215.iap.bryant.webtv.net
I luv surveys!
What do YOU do when your computer acts disobediently? Say bad words to it.
What do you do when it talks back to you? What does it say? Freak out. I hate error messages!
What do you do when it punishes YOU? Say more bad words.
What do you do to punish it back? Hit it and go find a computer ad and think about replacing it.
What's Your Hobbies: Drawing, Computer, Music, Writing, Dreaming, TV, chatting, the Dark Side.....
Favorite Activities (Keep it clean): I have favorite activities?! whoa!
Most Favorite Meal(s): It's food. Speaking of which, I'm hungry.
What's Your Zodiac Sign? What do you like and dislike about your sign? Libra. I don't dislike anything about it. It describes the way I am and I'm not ashamed of it.
What do you like and dislike about other zodiac signs? Nothing really.
What's Your Element? What do you like and dislike about your element? Air.
Favorite Quote> Yours: Someone else's: "Carpe Diem - Seize the day
Carpe Noctum - Seize the night
Carpin Denium - there's a fish in my pants
Carpe ovum - sieze the egg
Cave Canem - beware of the dog "
Most Annoying Pet-Peeve: Error messages and Popup windows (that's why I've turned off my Java).
Favorite Animal Pet Name (doesn't have to be YOUR pet's name, a name reserved for pets, or a pet-like name; it can be any name you would like for a pet) - specify the type of animal it's for (cat, dog, lizard, fish... type of cat, dog... color of animal...): Notspot (my cat's name)
Least Favorite Pet Name (same guidelines as specified above): Huh??
Favorite Type of Animal Pet (cat, dog, lizard, fish... type of cat, dog... color of animal...): Cats, Fish, Birds
Least Favorite Animal Pet (same guidelines as specified above): Dogs and Spiders
Favorite Gargoyles Joke(s): n/a
Favorite Joke(s) You Tell People: n/a
Favorite Computer Game And/Or Other Games: the Breath of Fire series. And about every other game as well.
Favorite Magazine: Wizard.
Favorite Word(s): Words are words.
Least Favorite Word(s): I dislike words?
What's the color of your blankie (blanket)? blue and white.
How often do you visit this page per day or week? not enough. once a week if i remember.
How often do you visit other Gargoyles-related sites? everyday!
Which ones do you visit? don't remember.
Why and how gargoyle famales have such skinny waists? They just do. Unless if you're gonna draw 'em.... ^_^!
If a group of birds are called a flock and a group of cattle is called a herd -- What's a group a gargoyles gliding in the air called? I'd say a group of gargoyles.
What's a group of garg-beasts called? Nasty...don't want a group of them coming after me!
If Alex did an "Equality" thing to the twins, what do you think would be the first things they say after turning human? No idea.
What do you think they would do during the day? Where would they go? What would they do? Again, no idea.
If Puck played a joke on Demona again (ala "The Mirror"), what do you think she might be turned into this time? A human. Day and Night.
Why did the gargoyle cross the road? To get away from Demona who's wielding a bazooka.
Why do pens dry up or leak when you need them the most? Because they're assholes.
Why do bad things happen in groups? Dunno. I tend to wander off by myself at times.
Is the grass always greener on someone else's lawn? No. Because we water ours! ^_^!
Is the sky always bluer on someone else's planet? Depends on their sun(s). Purple skies are coming!! (if our sun goes ultraviolet).
Are fish using our oceans and lakes for their own private toilets? (...NEXT on Sick Sad World) Yes. It's really disgusting, especially since they're swimming in their own filth.
Are You Going To The Gathering? No.
Are You Going Next Year? Yes. Hopefully.
Dark Autumn - [haitori@usa.net]
Mon Aug 17 05:52:32 PM
IP: ts2-00.cam.cyberhighway.net
What I don't understand, is why people always want the bad guys to be good. Okay, sometimes it works--Like Dingo. He's now a good guy. But some characters are just plain better as villains. Case in pont--Demona. As soon as she starts reevaluating killing humanity because of Angela-BOOM! Instant snore factor. She's ten times more interesting as a villain.
Don't think I'm right? Take Xanatos for example. He was such a friggin' cool bad guy. Now what does he do? Nothing much. Now I realize that he's got a family, and that being evil isn't much his first priority, but frankly, as soon as he switched jerseys to the side of angels, he didn't have that big a role in the show.
Geez...Are Jackal and I the only guys in here who like the bad guys?
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Mon Aug 17 05:11:36 PM
IP: client-151-200-126-169.bellatlantic.net
**A taxi crashes through the nearest wall and screeches to a halt in the middle of the room, miraculously avoiding hitting any of the people here. The window opens and a furry ball is catapulted out. Mandi opens the door, and hops out, pays the driver, and once he's sped out the hole he made, pulls a wand out of her pocket and restores the wall in perfect order.**
Okay, who stuffed that insane canine in my luggage? NYC drivers are nuts enough without a psychotic dog trying to eat the driver's cap! Spike was not kidding at all about traffic in New York!
*sigh* Wish I could say more, but here comes Mom with "Are you STILL online?" Which translates into "If you don't get off in five minutes, you'll regret it." Oh well.....until later....
Mandi Ohlin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Mon Aug 17 05:04:20 PM
IP: p1-40.netgsi.com
Jackal> I agree with you on Gillecomgain. He's evil, far more evil than Demona. More so, since his crimes were done against people who had not hurt him at all (like Findlaech and Macbeth). He didn't even have Demona's conviction that all of humanity is to be blamed. His immediate genocidal wish for revenge far outweighed his injury by Demona and cannot be excused by it. When I said 'innocent' I meant not 'innocent in the heart, good-hearted' I meant it as 'not guilty of anything yet'. Gillecomgain (and Duncan) were in my opinion beyond redemption (unlike Demona) since many of their crimes were not motivated by revenge or hatred.
Canmore in my opinion is a different case. Though he betrayed Demona and destroyed her clan, his war against Macbeth could be considered an honorable one, since Macbeth killed his father and exiled him. I can understand him if as a child he could not (or did not want to) see that it was his own father that was in the wrong side. His not killing Gruoch also suggests that deep down he was honourable.
I also agree that the last three hunters (as well as their father) were good guys thrust into a tragedy they didn't deserve.
Sevarius Jr. and Ravyn Maza> I'd disagree of your 'totally evil' estimation concerning Demona. Thailog, the Archmage... those could be considered all evil. But the series has done a great job in showing us that Demona is a enemy to be pitied rather than hated, one who has created her own tragedy; and ultimately one not beyond redemption.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Mon Aug 17 03:43:31 PM
IP: athe530-b098.otenet.gr
Oh my goodness! How can you all hate Elisa? She was my favorite character from the show! As for Demona, she made a great bad guy, but let's face it, she was an evil psycho. She became _way_ too obsessed with killing humanity and that led to the death of her clan and tons of other sorrow. And guys, Demona rejected Goliath (as seen in "Vows"), so why shouldn't he be with Elisa instead of Demona? I think Goliath deserves someone like Elisa and if that makes the psycho Demona jealous, well then so be it. I wouldn't mind seeing Demona come back to the world of the sane, but she's a pretty evil gal on my list right now.
Ravyn Maza
Arizona
Mon Aug 17 01:42:00 PM
IP: svm-ts4-13.c2i2.com
I find it very refreshing and uplifting that there are those of us here who want to see the inherent good that exists in Demona....but come on, she's a total evil bitch. A thousand Angela's ain't gonna change that.
As for Demona wanting to kill Elisa...forget her stealing her man, I'd want to kill Elisa just cause she's so damn annoying! She's the character I hated on the show the most! Was I the only one cheering when she fell off the dam into the water?
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Mon Aug 17 12:40:23 PM
IP: client-151-200-125-73.bellatlantic.net
I don't know that I'd consider Gillecomgain all that "innocent", Aris. While I certainly don't condone Demona attacking him (it struck me as a deliberate act of vengeance rather than just self-defense), I'd still consider him a nasty piece of work, on this grounds: he wanted revenge (almost immediately after Demona attacked him), not just against Demona, but against her entire species, regardless of guilt or innocence. That's one thing that made me find it difficult to really feel sorry for him. Another reason was the fact that he didn't just want to destroy Demona in vengeance; he also wanted power. He willingly served as Duncan's hired assassin in murdering Findlaech, and eagerly took Findlaech's lands and title (which he had no legal right to) afterwards. And as for the hints that we got about his marriage to Gruoch (such as the bit where he crushed her rose underfoot) - suffice it to say that he was a real rotter, beyond the mere consequences of being attacked by a gargoyle in youth.
Incidentally, has anybody noticed that the Hunters in some ways got better over the centuries? The first three Hunters, Gillecomgain, Duncan, and Canmore, were all scoundrels, who thirsted for power as well as for the destruction of the gargoyle race, and when they got it, wielded it like tyrants. In fact, a lot of Duncan and Canmore's part of the Hunt seemed more like a cover for their feud with Clan Moray over the succession to the Scottish throne (although I got the feeling that neither of them liked gargoyles much anyway) than a genuine anti-gargoyle crusade. Duncan and Gillecomgain even betrayed each other.
But Jason, Robyn, and Jon felt more like basically decent people who had been trapped by a horrible family tradition; they hunted gargoyles because they believed it to be their duty (particularly after Demona killed their dad in Paris), and had no ulterior motives of the sort that Duncan and Canmore had. Jason certainly had enough humanity in him to get seriously involved with Elisa in a genuine relationship (and it says a lot about him that he chose to concentrate on saving her at the clock tower rather than joining Jon in making certain that the gargoyles didn't escape the explosion), and until he went insane and became Castaway, Jon did clearly show a conscience, even though he didn't have the strength enough to follow it. Whatever you can say about the Canmores of "Hunter's Moon", they had much more honor and integrity than their 11th century ancestors.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Mon Aug 17 12:35:24 PM
IP: pn11-ppp-176.primary.net
Howdy!
Just back from Gathering 1998 and **sniff** taking my big 1st grader to school, so I'm not feeling particularly verbose at the moment. However, it was a lot of fun seeing what everyone looked like in person and I hope people were not too disappointed by the sight of plain li'l ole me. I discovered that those white dashed lines painted on the streets of NYC are solely for decoration because they practice freeform driving there! I got to hear part of the TGS reading but didn't get to stay for the Q&A. Somehow I got volunteered to be Con Suite hostess then. (I was surprised at how often G98 staffers came after me with a clipboard and saying "...um, Spike?")
I abandoned the G98 Central Park tour to go through Metropolitan Museum of Art, where I lost about 3 hours going through the exhibits. *L* It caused a minor panic back at the hotel because when the tour got back, no one knew where I was and it was well-known that I had a plane to catch. (Which I did, by the skin of my teeth. I checked in at the same moment that they started boarding the plane!)
I have to say this: Chris Rogers and Gorebash are two REALLY good-looking webmasters. *L* I've got a picture of Doug dressed as Richard Harrison from "Turncoat" which I'll put up as soon as I finish up that roll of film.
Spike
Mon Aug 17 12:29:25 PM
IP: dal-as2-1039.cmpu.net
Here's my reply. Btw, despite what I say below, I don't believe she's beyond redemption (meaning she could turn good), only that she's guilty for her crimes and though I understand her I could never excuse or really forgive her. (Mainly because the taking of even a single life is something irreversible)
<She was blindly in love and would have done anything for Thailog.>>
a) Not an excuse. Many people are blindly in love; they don't go into criminal and unethical activities. And don't forget that she fell in love with Thailog *because* he didn't have Goliath's annoying morality. At the end he ended up being more evil than even she could stomach; but that doesn't mean she can be excused for what she did.
b) Was it ever said that Thailog was the one to think of the plan? How do we know that she didn't originate it?
<<I'm not gonna discuss City of Stone...>>
Why? I think that's the ultimate Demona episode, showing both her evil and her reasons for it, and even glimpses of an ultimate redemption. She killed tens, possibly hundreds of people, in cold blood; both the stone statues and in the various flashbacks.
<<but the others were so that she could survive.>>
Not always. If I remember correctly in the 11th century flashback the gargoyles she led first immobilized the guards with a net; and then she kills them even when they can't harm her.
< <<She's shattered the trust in both Brooklyn and Goliath, betraying them personally..>>
They betrayed HER. As much as I like Brooklyn, yes, he betrayed HER! >
EXCUSE ME!?!? Have you seen Temptation? She lied to him; and she planned to enslave Goliath forever to her will, making him nothing more that a soulless robot! When did Goliath or Brooklyn betray her? Was it when Brooklyn objected to having his leader for all intents and purposes killed?
And btw, since Demona was Goliath's second in command, she should obey him, not vice versa. She betrayed him in Awakening.
< <<If we went with that logic, then the Archmage really wanted to die in Avalon Pt.3>>
Your only understanding the surface meaning of my words. >
It's your own explanation that's very weak IMO. She told her plan, so that Goliath would jump over her to take the statue and break it, so that she would have an excuse not to drop the vial? Please... She told her plan because she believed that they couldn't possibly stop her. Goliath's unexpected action managed to; something she couldn't have predicted. And even after that, she threw it in the air; endangering both all Gargoyles and all humanity.
<<If it is that I'm-jealous-because-he-used-to-be-mine-and-now-he-is-yours thing, I just don't buy it!>>
Wouldn't you be mad? You wait thousand years for your man and some human bimbo gets him? I'd want to kill her too!
A) Elisa didn't have Goliath at that point of time.
B) There's a great difference between wanting to kill someone and doing it. Demona shot Elisa and would have killed her if it wasn't for Elisa's luck. She attempted to kill another; and there's no excuse for that. I wouldn't go around killing the boyfriends of my ex-girlfriends.
Here are a few more of her crimes: Trying to kill Goliath with a bazooka, conspiring to have Macbeth fall in love with her, so as to take his money and then imprison him for all eternity... attacking an innocent boy in City of Stone... asking Puck to destroy all of humanity, and then Elisa personally... creating the clones whose intellects and education were deliberately designed inferior. (so as to have her very own slave clan)
And we can always go back to her very first crime where she cooperated with the Captain of the Guard to leave the castle defenseless; and betray her clan and castle.
Aris Katsaris - [katsari@otenet.gr]
Mon Aug 17 09:44:47 AM
IP: athe530-a112.otenet.gr
Demona's explanation> To me, the obvious reason is this:
a) She knew the clan would be against this, because of their role as protector.
b) She did not believe that there was any way for them to stop her. If someone attempted to grab the vial from her, she could simply break it open.
c) She wanted them to know exactly what was about to happen, so when humans started dropping like flies, they'd know why and who was responsible; perhaps she even thought she'd be hailed as a hero afterwards.
Demona IS the hero of her personal universe; she sees herself as being in an endless, one-Gargoyle fight against the humans, who are universally evil and despicable creatures. But there are things she's done every bit as despicable as the deeds of the humans she's fought against.
Laudre - [laudre@null.net]
Mon Aug 17 09:44:38 AM
IP: p02-06.stamford.dialin.ntplx.com
I seem to have time for this, so here I go...., Todd, I've read something to that effect, and that maybe true, but this statement...
<<perhaps he and his clan would have let Demona succeed in her genocidal scheme>>
Can you tell what Brooklyn was doing then? But yeah, she may have thought that Goliath was like, f*** humans, now.
<<I don't believe the explain the plan away defense. What villian hasn't explained their plan.>>
I don't, and villians I create don't. And if they do, they tell you by not telling you...., (it's a long story).
<<Xanatos really wanted to be foiled at every instance>>
From what I can remember, Xanatos rarely told the clan of his intention, we may have heard when he was talking to Owen or someone.
<<A guilty conscious isn't punishment>>
It can be, depends on the situation.
<<It is true you can justify anything, if you're distracted from the facts.>>
Facts can be bended in more wayz than fiction. Take prayer for instance, some people can justify (tell you facts) why you need it in your life, other people can justify (tell you facts) why you don't need it in your life. So who's the one that's "distracted"?
Jackal - [Jkal662@aol.com]
Ga, Usa
Mon Aug 17 08:32:09 AM
IP: spider-tf073.proxy.aol.com
49 days until the Rising.
I've sometimes wondered if Demona's little revelation of her plans in "Hunter's Moon Part Three" may have come in part from the fact that she could have believed that she'd finally converted the clan to her way of thinking. Remember that when she'd last seen Goliath (during the fight on the Hunters' airship) he was all out to destroy the Hunters for revenge, and had forgotten about protecting the city. And the gargoyles had come to St. Damien's Cathedral for the purpose of killing Robyn and Jon Canmore, *and* the place was now surrounded by humans who wanted to kill them. Maybe Demona believed that she'd actually convinced the clan to hate humans at last. And it's just possible that if Elisa and Jason hadn't shown up when they had, if Goliath had still believed Elisa to be dead, that perhaps he and his clan would have let Demona succeed in her genocidal scheme, having been sufficiently embittered against humanity by the fact that they were now hated and actively hunted by the entire city.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Mon Aug 17 07:59:43 AM
IP: pn4-ppp-168.primary.net
It's early, but I'm still gonna sock it ya....
<<She violated the members of her former clan, taken their DNA and creating the clones.>>
She was blindly in love and would have done anything for Thailog.
<<She killed numerous people from the bystanders in City of Stone, to the Canmores father, to simple guards in the 11th century.>>
I'm not gonna discuss City of Stone..., but the others were so that she could survive.
<<She's defiled another clan member, bring him back to life and casting three souls to a quasi life in Coldstone.>>
She didn't really know that was gonna happen....
<<She's shattered the trust in both Brooklyn and Goliath, betraying them personally..>>
They betrayed HER. As much as I like Brooklyn, yes, he betrayed HER!
<<If we went with that logic, then the Archmage really wanted to die in Avalon Pt.3>>
Your only understanding the surface meaning of my words.
<<If it is that I'm-jealous-because-he-used-to-be-mine-and-now-he-is-yours thing, I just don't buy it!>>
Wouldn't you be mad? You wait thousand years for your man and some human bimbo gets him? I'd want to kill her too!
Jackal - [Jkal662@aol.com]
Ga, Usa
Mon Aug 17 06:45:06 AM
IP: spider-wb021.proxy.aol.com
Ah, but Taleweaver, everything changed for Demona when she found out about Angela. She tried to destroy The Clan, but when it came down to it, she did the right thing. In Hunter's Moon, she wasn't trying to hurt Gargoyles, only humans, and who's to say with magic, that she would die too. Maybe the magic that links her with Macbeth would save him instead of killing her. Anyway, you try living alone for 1000 years, with only people who hate and betray you.
But I do have to say, Jackel, I don't think Demona has much of a right to be mad at Elisa. If it is that I'm-jealous-because-he-used-to-be-mine-and-now-he-is-yours thing, I just don't buy it! I mean, she kinda blew any chance she had with Goliath first when she betrayed the clan, then when she tried to blow him up in Awakenings. Seriously, you can only give a women so many chances...
Ordell, do you mean fav recouring character in just Gargoyles, or in all 4 series?
On that note, I have finally finished Dark Ages and I am well into Pendragon. At this pace I'll probably finish just in time for The Rising. School and work first.
Apollo - [ORF4@aol.com]
VA, USA
Mon Aug 17 01:44:48 AM
IP: 173-139-206.ipt.aol.com
No one wins in these Demona debates, but since the comment room is pretty quiet. I'll jump into the quagmire again. What is Demona guilty of? She violated the members of her former clan, taken their DNA and creating the clones. She killed numerous people from the bystanders in City of Stone, to the Canmores father, to simple guards in the 11th century. She's defiled another clan member, bring him back to life and casting three souls to a quasi life in Coldstone. She's shattered the trust in both Brooklyn and Goliath, betraying them personally, Goliath twice. The list goes on. I'm unconvinced Demona's a good person deep down. One reason, she's had many chances to turn good and never took them. Goliath reached out to her Long Way, and again in Vows. I don't believe the explain the plan away defense. What villian hasn't explained their plan. If we went with that logic, then the Archmage really wanted to die in Avalon Pt.3. He just didn't want to do it himself. Xanatos really wanted to be foiled at every instance. And Oberon really wanted to be humiliated and defeated. Would Demona die from the virus? My vote is yes. The virus was harmless, a carrying agent. The DI 7 was harmless, a cleaner. The spell was harmless, until cast on holy ground on Hunter's Moon. Demona put them all together and made them deadly. Just like an unloaded gun and bullet are both harmless until someone puts the two together, points and fires. And spells aren't deeply philosophical. It would follow the surface logic. MacBeth is dead > what killed him? The virus > Where did the virus come from > Demona! Demona dies. Any way genocide is an all consuming thing. If not the virus certainly something else. I know many like the idea of Demona redeaming herself. But oten the redemption comes without accountability. A guilty conscious isn't punishment. If all it took for a criminal to get off was to say "I feel really bad about it" There'd be riots in the streets. Maybe it's the dragon part of me that takes such a draconian stance on this. It is true you can justify anything, if you're distracted from the facts. The facts point to Demona being more evil than good. She'll get no succor from me.
Taleweaver - [rdfootman@csupomona.edu]
Sun Aug 16 11:18:20 PM
IP: ppp-207-214-176-32.anhm01.pacbell.net
Aris, YOUR definition of "Involuntary" would be if Goliath tripped up, and.... made it a bad day for humanity. OK. My definition of "Involuntary", Jackal's dictionary states: "An intentional act done without an individual's voluntary participation."
Let me explain..., Oh, hey Firestorm!!! Anyway, I know this may not make sense to "normal" people. If I was in a heated argument and I pull out a fully loaded gun, aim it at my opponent and continue arguing with the opponent, then I have no purpose in using that gun, the only reason that gun is there, is for the intention of scaring the other person. Now, if I'm still aiming my weapon at my opponent, and get so caught up in the moment, I pull the trigger, that gun shot is an involuntary act from me. My intention was not kill the other person, if it was, I would have shot 'im the second I pulled that gun out.
Let me explain it like this, if there's still a question...., Demona and her "Dooms Day Vile". All right, if she REALLY wanted to kill off humanity, the split second she saw Goliath she would've dropped that vile like it was the plague.... (you know what I mean). Demona knows good well that Goliath is gonna stop her, she's too smart to see past that! But wait a minute! What was her reason for delaying? Only Demona really knows, but the way I see it is like this, her thought process, deep down, was like "This is wrong, you know you ain't suppose to be doin this." So her good side took over and when it did, the good side in her got her to show off just how smart she was by explaining her plan to the clan. I know what you're thinking, "What kind of good side is that?" I know people like this..., They will tell you what bad thing they want to do, because, though they don't say it, they want you to stop them for doing it. You know what I sayin, right? Hell, I'm one of those people! There's one real life situation that comes to mind, to help better explain, let me tell ya..., I won't be detailed about it, for my own reasons.
Anywayz, there was this dude that pissed me off royally and would not get off my lawn. I turn around to go inside and get a (weapon of my choice), while I'm doin that, I repeatedly say, "I'm gonna kill this mutha*****". When I walk back outside my sister's like, Hold up, whatcha doin?! And I repeat seemingly the only words in my vocabulary, which is the phrase stated above. Needless to say I'm stopped and all returns to normal. If I had a true intention of killing that person, I wouldn't have said a word and just done it.
Now, genocide, as Tupac would say, "When we ride on our own kind", I personally believe Demona is not guilty of. I maybe guilty of ending a sentence with a preposition, but that has nothing to do with nothing, so just ignore that. Anyway, upon evaluating this situation, I've come to the conclusion that Demona is not genocidal as much as she may be homicidal, but even that "homicide" is involuntary. How many people did I just confuse, not counting me?
I guess it's true....., anything can be rationalized, everything can be justified, any other thing is neutralized. But seriously, what crimes is she guilty of? She hasn't done anything REALLY wrong, aside from shooting Elisa with that posion dart thingy, and she has every reason in the world to be mad at Elisa.
Jackal
Ga, Usa
Sun Aug 16 10:20:27 PM
IP: spider-te052.proxy.aol.com
Okay, I've been going a little postal here. I wasn't able to go to the Gathering. And the whole weekend, I've been stuck at home taking care of my younger sister (she's got the flu or sumthin'). Unless those gone to the Gathering don't get back soon and start some conversation...I...I won't be responsible for my actions. I'M BORED OUTTA MY FREAKIN' MIND!!!!! If only the voices in my head would shut up for a minute...
And you Gathering folks had better have brought me back something. Forget about Lisa, Doug, those Lexington-shaped earrings would look better on me.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Sun Aug 16 10:08:26 PM
IP: client-151-200-121-213.bellatlantic.net
Static-Pulse> Someone asked Greg this; the answer depends on a few factors, subjective ones. Demona doesn't necessarily intend to kill Macbeth specifically, nor does she do so directly; the virus is what would kill him. Thus, it depends on whether or not she's directly culpable from the spell's perspective for his death.
Don't really have much else to say right now. People who didn't go to the Gathering: I'll be getting my camera back Wednesday, should have the pictures Friday... don't know when I'll be able to get them scanned, but hopefully within the next couple of weeks.
Laudre - [laudre@null.net]
Sun Aug 16 09:10:21 PM
IP: p02-38.stamford.dialin.ntplx.com
This might be an oldie, but I'm curious:
Q: If all the humans were wiped out in Hunter's Moon, would Demona die too. I'm figuring this because MacBeth is human, so he'd be killed by Demona and thus she'd die ala the curse.
If I'm wrong on any pf my facts -- which my logic is based -- please let me know. :-)
Static-Pulse - [khovak@hotmail.com]
Sun Aug 16 07:25:04 PM
IP: dialin10.sel.the-link.net
ARIS - Well, it's actually the Avalon Archives staff who "update" the "Gargoyles Guide"; I just e-mail them the various sections, and they post them for me. So if the Guide goes for a long time without being updated, that generally means that the Avalon Archives staff haven't managed to get to it yet. (And, with the Gathering taking place this weekend, they obviously wouldn't have that much opportunity to do so for a while).
At any rate, thanks for the kind words on the Gargoyles Guide, which, on the whole, I enjoyed writing. Perhaps my favorite parts were the bits on the real-world background for the various myths and legends. That's one of the things that I've most enjoyed about "Gargoyles", in fact; it made use of "real" legends, and did so in a generally serious and dignified manner (though you've got to admit that a good number of the legendary beings in that series were anything but serious - take Puck, for instance:). Something that few television series, live-action or animation, have done, and that's one reason why I miss "Gargoyles".
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sun Aug 16 06:25:51 PM
IP: pn13-ppp-67.primary.net
Jackal> Well, frankly, involuntary genocide would be if Goliath had tripped and dropped the bottle with the virus in Hunter's Moon. Demona on the other hand is quite willing to kill off all of the human race. If we had to go and find what she wants deep deep down... well everyone would be considered innocent that way. There's still good inside her; however that doesn't mean that she's not guilty for her crimes.
Todd> I'm gonna change mental gears and play the really annoying and impatient fanboy: When are you gonna update your guide to the Gargoyles Universe? I mean, 'A' and halfway through 'B' is fine and all, but there are 24 and a half letters left in the alphabet! YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION MISTER!(Sorry just joking. You know that, right? Right...?) Anyway, I only recently read your guide and it's great so far. The way you've taken all of the info of the series, and combined it with the Ask Greg tidbits, and the real world myths. Nice... Very nice. Can't wait to read the rest.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Sun Aug 16 05:38:50 PM
IP: athe530-e048.otenet.gr
Hey, again! Hello to everyone at the Gathering! I hope ya'll are having a great time. Well, I have to admit, I'm bored too. Anybody have any good fanfic recommendations for me to read? Well, gotta go for now. See ya!
Ravyn Maza
Arizona
Sun Aug 16 12:43:05 PM
IP: svm-ts4-22.c2i2.com
50 days until the Rising.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sun Aug 16 07:40:02 AM
IP: pn3-ppp-111.primary.net
Finally got my data port installed in this room.
Todd: Heard the season premiere of TGS! It IS great!
Everyone that was not able to come, you are deeply missed.
From all of us here, we say hello
Fire Storm - [GatheringJ@aol.com]
Sun Aug 16 01:21:19 AM
IP: 201-188-29.ipt.aol.com
Gargs episodes>> I too like them all, but my top five are Future Tense, Kingdom, Reawakening, Long Way Till Morning and Temptation......hey I have a question....., just out of curiosity, what's everyone's favorite reoccuring character(s) in the Saga?? Mine would have to be the Harrison brothers or Sharon.....I'm bored, as always....later people
Ordell - [ordell9425@geocities.com]
Sat Aug 15 07:40:52 PM
IP: 205-61-98.ipt.aol.com
COYOTE - I don't think that "The Thrill of the Hunt" is that preachy or cutesy in tone. Maybe it's not especially profound, compared to "City of Stone" or "Hunter's Moon", but it's still reasonably fun (especially the bit where Billy and Susan interrupt the Pack to ask for their autographs just when they're about to finish off Goliath and Lexington).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sat Aug 15 07:11:04 PM
IP: pn5-ppp-196.primary.net
Hmm...I like all the Gargoyles episodes, but if I had to pick some to show to someone to get them hooked on the show, I would go with Awakenings, Deadly Force, The Mirror, City of Stone, Future Tense (although I do agree that one should be familiar with all the characters before they can really enjoy this episode), and Hunter's Moon.
Ravyn Maza
Arizona
Sat Aug 15 06:37:47 PM
IP: svm-ts7-1.c2i2.com
**Coyote enters the room, dressed to the nines in his new $350 suit.**
I'd better look good in this, the store said there were only 6 in existence in North America that were my size!
Recommended episodes: I can only vouch for my personal favorites, but here goes: