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MANDI - Set was a bit of a controversy for us when we discussed the Egyptian pantheon in relation to the Unseelie War; most of us saw him as evil, but there were one or two exceptions, who pointed out that he wasn't always a villain in Egyptian mythology. (In particular, he actually fought alongside Ra against the great serpent Apep/Apophis). That's all that I'm at liberty to say for now.

The person whom you really want to question on Egyptian gods, of course, is Nicodemus. He's a real expert on the subject (as his Sekhmet dissertation from last week shows).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, December 6, 1998 10:13:44 PM
IP: pn2-ppp-52.primary.net

Mary Sues> Oh, boy. My $.02 on the subject is that a character with a lot of Mary Sue qualities is not automatically a bad or annoying character. (Witness Avery and Rowan.) But a lot of Mary Sue qualities increases the character's potential to be annoying tenfold. You can write a character with a lot of MS qualities, but it's consequently much more difficult to flesh the character out enough for him/her to rise above the MS stigma. Missy's test is extremely helpful pertaining to Trek and Garg fiction; I conned her into adapting the test for fanfics pertaining to...please don't throw a fit when you hear this...Power Rangers. **ducks the rotten fruit thrown at her** Hey, knock it off! PR Mary Sues have to be among the most grating MS characters I've read. Oh well...

Stormy> No problem. I loved it so much I just had to share! You know, if you can't upload stories, you could appoint someone to get into your author directory on the GFW archive and post them for you. I'd advise a trustworthy someone.

Todd> I've been doing a little research for the Garg/SG-1/TP crossover that I've plugged shamelessly in here, and was wondering. According to the book I've got, Ra, Anubis, Horus, Osiris, Isis, and Thoth are considered to be "good", while Set, Sekhmet, and Apep/Apophis are considered to be evil. (This is derived from the myth that says that Anubis was Osiris' illegitimate son by Set's wife, but that's not totally relevant to my question.) If you do introduce further Egyptian gods into the Unseelie War, would the gods I've mentioned be on the good/evil sides according to the book? I'm asking this because I've seen some fics that incorporate Egyptian myth into their plots, and Set is always evil. Whatever. You can ignore this if it doesn't make sense.

As usual, I'm avoiding doing work, so I'd better get to it. Until the new ep is posted,

Mandi Ohlin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 10:08:06 PM
IP: 144.175.17.40

**RP!!!**The screen lights up to reveal Coyote's tank and crew zooming toward the River Walk to provide backup for Doug and Kitainia. Preston is still securely tied to the fender of the tank.**

Hi, guys. We're on our way to help out the Ravens after taking out the morons and their tank.

<"Hey, Coyote, what's that?">

**All eyes turn toward the tied up bully, as Ravyn asks. Preston starts to fade out.**

Hey! What happened to the magnetic jammer thingie?!

<"Uhh, Coyote ... we fired the turret. The recoil must have shorted it out.">

D'OH!! I knew we should've just used the RPG's.

**Preston fades completely out.**

Well, crud. We're back to square one, and we still didn't find out anything else about the earthquake projector. Well, let's make some replies while we cruise along. **END RP FOR NOW!!**

Mary Sues: By the two definitions given here, I have placed two left-handed Mary Sues into my fics, purely by accident:
Love interest: Obviously, that would have to be Rain. (Wouldn't I call him a Bobby Joe, then? ;)
Author cameos: The only one I've put in is that Steve Bluestone drives my Cadillac.

AOL IM: Well I certainly had a fun time with Mandi, Robby and JEB last night (fun thing to try tonight: keeping current with three IM conversations at 1 AM.). And I just had an extended nice chat with Skydancer. So I'm getting good use out of it, thus far.

Ravyn: Well, here's hoping you get to go, at least!

Mandi: Yep. See you online right now. Mind if I drop you a line ...? ;)

Censoring anime: You should see the hack-jobs Sci-Fi channel has to do on their annual "Japanimation Festival" (ugh, I hate the name!!). It hasn't really been any good since the first year they did it (when they showed Dominion: Tank Police (both parts), Project A-Ko and The Venus Wars, all in one week! Personally, I'm waiting for them to put A Wind Named Amnesia on.).

Mary: OUCH! **winces in sympathetic pain.**

SOROW: I noticed your absence as well. Glad to have ya back.

Heather: Writing a ST novel? Kewl ... maybe sometime I'll tell you about the Voyager script I only got halfway through writing before terminal writer's block took over ...

Coyote and the Mazas (sounds like the name of a band! ;): I already put in my two cents about this one in my fics.

Deuce: You think that's bad? My Wings started a road trip by losing to the much-hated-Claude-Lemieux-is-the-Antichrist Avalanche this last week. (They did manage to beat the Kings last night, though, not that it's saying much. And that's considering Ozzie's out right now and Norm Maracle is in goal.)

New machine: Thanks for the congratulations. Now I can finally get up to speed in the real world. YAY!

**RESUME RP!!**The tank begins bearing down on the River Walk. Coyote's whipping the backside of the turret for some weird reason.*

GIDDYAP, HORSEY!

<"What's going on with him?" "Speedlust, don't mind him. This happens all the time, Rav." "Ohh ...">

**The tank comes up behind the Ravens, speeding to help Doug and Kitainia as the screen winks off.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Sunday, December 6, 1998 10:02:43 PM
IP: modem73.i-is.com

DURID - In that case, I think that what you're really thinking of is "News From the South".
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, December 6, 1998 09:42:51 PM
IP: pn2-ppp-52.primary.net

**Kyryn walks in the door with a small fuzzy wolf (about the size of a cat).**

Hey all, this is Stefan Wolf. RL he's a fuzzy hand puppet with an attitude. Yes, his name is a pun for the band. Just thought I'd add two cents to the name pronunciation.

Accidents> Kind of funny that this topic should come up. I was hit this weekend. Not my fault. The poor Saturn got blindsided by a Nissan Pathfinder coming out of a driveway. Luckily no one was hurt! Funny, it was up in Bandera, and one of the witnesses was the Bandera Chief of Police. We had three black and whites on the scene in minutes. Oh well, the poor Saturn is going to need a new windshield (it got cracked and a small hole on the passenger side), a new radio antenna (Ack! No radio!), and new panels on the passenger side. (I really should've gone to Denton this weekend :) )

Wilek> *l* - I remembered that line from Aliens, I think. It seemed appropriate.

Doug> Sorry about the link. I had to finish my post in kind of a hurry, but no harm done. My views on both religion and firearms pretty much parallel yours. I just have problems when people like Sarah Brady try to legislate my right to protect myself out of existence as she seems to be trying again.

Green Baron> Religion and Politics - You'd like my fiance. Too bad he doesn't post here, but he's not a huge gargs fan.

Spike> *l*

Deuce> I think that we are agreeing to disagree. Unless I'm mistaken, the Stars play your team either tonight or tomorrow. :) . BTW, I had a 'rumour' (that was actually the truth) follow me from grade school through high school. My sympathies. My solution was to ignore it mostly, and the guys who brought it up were usually labeled instant jerks unless they just wanted to know the real circumstances and weren't trying to use it to bug me.

Jackal> Regarding suicide - I had thoughts and came close during the depths of my depression. Luckily I realized that it was my messed up brain chemistry and not the 'real' me. Happily I'm much better and not going there again.

Coyote> Congrats on the new machine. Wish I could get my pentium at home to work properly so I could post from home.

Christine> LOL

Aris> I think that you are forgetting that Emrys is in the body of a hormonally unstable young man. Normally he might be able to deal with this in an 'adult' fashion, but now he will tend to blow events out of proportion and his frustrations will become evident. Also, consider, Macbeth *still* has problems with revisionist history and he's also been dealing with it for a long time.

SOROW> Good to see you back.

Heather> I liked the pic.

**Stefan looks at Kyryn. This fun place. Stef like! Kyryn and Stef both leave**
Kyryn - [bmashburn@yahoo.com]
Uvalde, TX
Sunday, December 6, 1998 09:01:16 PM
IP: 168.37.239.86

T.J.: Actually, I did mean Pilgramage. I am not talking about the three visiting priests, though they could be part of Madoc's plans as well. I was talking about the people who drove that one clan of Gargoyles out of the city they lived in. A city where Gargoyles and humans were actually living in peace until these hate-mongers started stirring things up. Then when that murder happened, 'apprently' by a Gargoyle.... well, the ones who were passing through Wyvern only survived because they were out hunting for a few days. It was those hate-mongers I was talking about.
Durid - [durid@bitstream.net]
MN, USA
Sunday, December 6, 1998 08:43:07 PM
IP: dialupj209.mpls.uswest.net

GREEN BARON - So Matt's Jewish, eh? Kind of amusing, in view of the fact that one of the recent "X-Files" episodes said that "Mulder" is a Jewish name. BTW, I heard that joke about Jesus and Peter in Sunday School once, when I was around 11 or 12.

RELIGION - Actually, the "Dark Ages" story in question was "Perspectives" rather than "Pilgrimage" (trust me, I wrote "Perspectives"). I had a lot of fun writing it, since it gave me the opportunity to explore the whole business of where Christianity would stand on the gargoyles, with Brother Edmund taking one side, the three visiting priests the other. (I'm particularly proud of supplying through Brother Edmund's mouth an explanation for how the gargoyles can be involuntarily nocturnal without being demons or demonic in nature).

I've my own suspicions that Madoc infiltrated the Church and helped encourage that anti-gargoyle attitude, but I don't think that it was his entire doing. There had to be some xenophobia there for him to work with, for a start. On the other hand, it probably amused him to corrupt a religion originally based on peace, love, and the notion that we are all God's children, into one based on persecution, bloodshed, and so on, producing things such as the Spanish Inquisition. I can easily imagine Madoc taking part in things like the Inquisition and various witch-hunts, as a little token of whose side the people doing those things *really* were on, even if they thought that they were serving God when they were doing them.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, December 6, 1998 06:32:09 PM
IP: pn8-ppp-139.primary.net

I think the main problem with "Mary-Sue" type characters is that it's boring to read about an absolutely perfect character whom everyone loves who is invincible. It's too cliched. If you're going to introduce someone as a love interest, etc, you have to really concentrate on character development or else the story fizzles into one more happily-ever-after caricature.

I agree that Angela seems to be the prototype Mary Sue. However, the series' character development, and the fact that Angela has to LEARN to fight and adapt to the modern world, and her interesting relationship with Demona made up for that.

Another side note...when I first started writing fanfics...(I look back at AASHLEE: LOST SOUL and grit my teeth, saying it wasn't bad for a first attempt) ...originally, Aashlee was supposed to be my main character and Wagner only secondary supporting cast...problem is, no sooner did I introduce Wagner than I found I couldn't stop writing fics with him. He's got more depth than Aashlee and I just find him more interesting. And while Aashlee may flirt with Mary-Sue-ism, especially in the first fic, Wagner...well...he's another case...

Mandi: thanx for the Shameless Plug ;-)
Stormy - [<--WAGNER SAYS, "CLICKEN SIE"!]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 06:25:43 PM
IP: vulpecula.huron.uwo.ca

**Green Baron appears in his trademark green three-piece suit**

Hello all! I was just inducted into Phi Beta Lambda, Future Business Leaders of America. I know have another Business related organization and more contacts for future job opportunities. Hopefully, some will be Investment Bankers.

Mary Sue> Merlin Missy has a test used to determine what level of Mary Sue one is. I did a draft fanifc that I recalled, and the character was too Mary Sueish and also useless fo rthe plot, so I'm doing soem definite revisions. My first fanfic will be a "lost episode" of Avalon where teh four trekkers :) meet Prospero in the Carribean. As soon as I have it typed, shredded by a proofreader and re-done, it's going to you, Christine for AvMists.

As for Mary Sue quality, Tara O'Shea did an excellent job, but others are not as good. There are also male Mary Sue characters, including soem that are created by the original writers, like Wesley Crusher. Before you create a character, it might be good to take Merlin Missy's Mary Sue litmus test.

Aris> According to the almighty Greg, the Mazas are 100% human, but in your fanfic Universes, laissez faire.

Religion in fics> In my pilot fic, I had the gargs rescue Cardinal O'Connor, but I noticed soem of the themes were a little too imposing, which is one of faults and biases, so I will always have aproofreader who can warn me of certain mistakes. I talekd to Greg about the whole idea, and he said it should be used when appropriate, and only when it advances the plot. BTW, he also told me that Matt Bluestone is Jewish, and Matt's beliefs are similar to Greg.

Religion in General> That and politics are discussions I love, but not many share my fondness. Another great thing are all the jokes you can generate regarding a faith, especially your own. I think Doug would remember when my card key was having trouble, so I made the sign of the cross before I tried to open the door. Here's an example of one of my favorite religious jokes:

When Jesus was on the cross, he called out, "Peter! Peter!"
Peter came, but the guards pushed him away. Jesus called out again, "Peter! Peter!", but the same happened. After two more futile attempts, Jesus cried out, "Peter! Peter!". Peter arrived before the guards could stop him and said, "Yes. What is it, my Lord?"
Jesus responded, "Peter! Peter! I can see your house from here."

I know that was bad, but taht's one of my favorite jokes. I also the preacher voices, too.

Now I must leave for a Deltasig meeting. Bye!
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
Sunday, December 6, 1998 05:13:54 PM
IP: 141.164.133.107

Aris: Okay, maybe I have things wrong. Thanks for correcting me. I will go back, read the stories again, and reestablish my opinion.

Christine: Aiden, Elektra, and Birdie Mary Sues? Oh, come on! :)

Robby: If what you're planning to do in San Antonio involves the monsters in any way, you better do it quick. In the next RP post Doug or I make, we'll be removing them from the city.
Kitainia
Sunday, December 6, 1998 04:04:20 PM
IP: hil-qbu-ptf-vty60.as.wcom.net

ARIS> You got the Mary Sue definition right, but I dunno about your examples.

Oh, and everyone else: I FINALLY GOT ICQ!!! My UIN is 25105603, so anyone who wants to chat may do so.
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 04:03:03 PM
IP: ppp0098.connect.ab.ca

Mary Sues> Let me see if I get this straight: Mary Sue is a female character who manages to be an absolute goddess defeating every evil character, impressing every good character, almost never making any wrong decision, and always fearless and bold wooes and is wooed by the male sex symbol of the series, and proceeds to ride into the sunset with him, am I correct? That's pretty much the definition I was thinking of.

Kitainia> Trust me, Gemini is definitely not a Mary Sue character. I can't put enough emphasis in this. No way in hell she could be considered a Mary Sue character. I can think of very few female heroines who are less Mary Sue-ish than she is. Read 'Gemini' and 'Mutatis Mutandis' (and the rest of the Athenaverse ofcourse) if you like.

Btw, besides Rowan isn't Spike's Avery a Mary Sue as well?
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 03:45:46 PM
IP: athe530-a102.otenet.gr

Green Baron > I heard that! ; )

Kitania > ya know, a lot of people thought that Aiden was a Mary-Sue. Then people thought Elektra was. People must not know me very well ; ) If I have one, it's Birdie Yale <g>

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 03:24:57 PM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net

I don't usually post on Sundays, but today I make an exception (despite the size of the room).

COLDSTONE> Yeah, the Lightning smoked the Oilers on Friday. My team seems to be winning ev'ry OTHER game. Not good it we want the playoffs again.

MARY SUE> A "Mary-Sue" is a female character (mostly) in fan fiction who winds up falling for the series' resident sex-symbol, and they ride off into the sunset. VERY annoying.

***SPOILERS FOR THE LION KING II FOLLOW!***

Well... not bad. The music and animation weren't quite up to par, but Kiara was an absolutely lovable character, and Kovu had a lot more depth than your average Disney leading male. I, for one, found it to be a lot darker than many other Disney movies, especially Zera's "Lullaby". Damn frightening, that one.

***NO MORE SPOILERS**

That'll be all for now. See y'all tomorrow! (Lunchtime, likely; I have to use the morning computer period for homework).

** leaves **
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
City of Champions, Alberta, Canada
Sunday, December 6, 1998 02:48:59 PM
IP: ppp0098.connect.ab.ca

***The winds suddenly rise, making a bunch of leaves form a minature torando. When they disperse they reveal the form of Durid!***

Sevarius Jr.: I believe that Willow becomes a Vampire. And you know what happens in Buffy's world when a person becomes a Vampire. They die, and a demon takes the place of the soul in the body left behind. I am sorry to tell you Jr., but that isn't really Willow.

Wilek: Hyproicy - Not really. Just politicts in action. Have to plase some people some of the time, and displease them another time.
Leos taking over the world - YES! Go forth and conquer, our army!.... Um, Wilek, just who are we conquering anyway?

Sorrow: I have a feeling we are going to get death when the Unseele war really starts. Right now it is just in opening moves and massing of forces.

Aris: Coyte and Mazas - Eaaah. Oh, what the heck, lets make a couple of perdication, and see if they come true or not.
1. I believe it will turn out that Coyte and Maza will be more like a generations old friendship. Each respects the other, Coyte was just rembering an incident with Beth's Grandmother.
2. When Dark Ages re-starts, we will find out that Madoc has inflitrated the church, and is behind their anti-Gargoyle belief. He has done this to prevent the prophesy of his destruction from coming about. You may rember the hate-mongers in "Pilgrimage" in the first season. Sounds like a Madoc-plan to me.

And Morrigon, she is the one who is first set on trial 11,000 years ago, but had it intruppted because of Oberon and Madoc's father's death. Morrigon is also the 'crow' who sees Elisa and Goliath sharing a tender moment when the Unseele were attacking New York.

Heather: Really? I thought it was something like a kind-and-innocent chacter. If Angela is a Mary Sue to your defination, who is she a Mary Sue of?

And writeing a Star Trek Novel? You don't mean part of that paperback seris that has dozens of authors on it? How did you become a part of that?

***The winds rise once again, making a swarm of leave go around Durid, obscureing him. And when they settle down, Durid is gone.***
Durid - [durid@uswest.net]
MN, USA
Sunday, December 6, 1998 02:43:26 PM
IP: dial-207-225-154-216.mpls.uswest.net

Aris > As I know a Mary-Sue character is where you the author put yourself into the story. Like I have one Star Trek novel I'm writing * Blushes * where somehow I am transported into the Star Trek universe....on the U.S.S. Voyager to be right. I'm writing it and I'm also in it.

So far my novel story is only 7 chapters long. On paper to be right. Took me a week. It's pretty long.

I need more comments about my pic.

Spike > Your "Ricky" picture on your Art Gallery , she looks exactly like my "Cassie Maza" character in my fan-fic "Future's Turning" .
Heather - [kheetor84@aol.com]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 02:19:14 PM
IP: 209-186-48.ipt.aol.com

Aris: Your definition of a Mary Sue is probably correct. I just see Gemini as one because from the little I've read of her, she's always kicking ass and taking names, getting all smoochy with Mars, or being liked by the clan. That makes her feel Mary Sue-ish to me. I probably haven't read as much of the Athenaverse as you, you don't seem to share my feelings about the character, I'm sorry. I really don't want to start a debate over this issue, I was just stating my opinion. Hope this puts your mind at ease.

SOROW: I noticed you weren't here, and missed you. But there was so much else going on I didn't say anything. Sorry. (Boy, do you constantly feel the emotion that is your name!

See everyone with RP after the CR is cleared. Later!
Kitainia
Sunday, December 6, 1998 01:00:01 PM
IP: hil-c45-008-vty54.as.wcom.net

*creeps in*

No, I did NOT get my name from the Simpsons!*L*

Now if I were a guy at my school, I would be getting birthday beatings! I would get pounded for as many minutes as I am old.*shudders*

*creeps out*
Mary Flanders
Sunday, December 6, 1998 12:36:54 PM
IP: ramp-1-14.ucdavis.edu

Mary Sue characters> Could someone give me a brief explanation of what a Mary-Sue character is? I've heard a definition, but I'm puzzled to how it could be apply to Ryan Stout's Gemini, so perhaps I've got it wrong.

Beth as 'witch'> Yeah, I know it's not the best word I could have used. I meant it in the general 'magic-user' sense.

Coyote and Mazas> I think that I too would prefer Elisa Maza to be completely human. Perhaps something else then. A favour the Mazas did for Coyote, and one the Coyote is still grateful after many generations, perhaps? I think this has potential

Crow-Morrigan> Hmm... That's a problem for me. I've not read every single Pendragon of the first season. I'll have to go back to know who the Morrigan is.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 05:49:55 AM
IP: athe530-e014.otenet.gr

I guess nobody noticed that I wasn't here all week :(

Happy birthday to all those I missed. I was really busy this week.

To anyone>Princess Bride is a favorite of mine too.

***SPOILER'S ***
Actually, I guess everybody's read it already. I just finished it, and I thought it was pretty good. What I'm most curious about is when Madoc was looking into the mirror, and I think we can safely say the stocky red gargoyle was Brooklyn. I wonder what Madoc did to the world. I think it would be really cool if one of the gargoyles in Manhattan was injected with a disease by the Unseelie. The suspense and mere death experience would really add character development into the story, and we need more of it.
***END SPOILER'S***

Well, bye for now.
SOROW
Sunday, December 6, 1998 02:48:03 AM
IP: usr2-4-dialup25.mix1.irving.cw.net

31 OR 32 DAYS UNTIL TIMEDANCER SEASON 2!!!
Woah, the rooms at 450K now... Maybe DumaloaX will clear it early this week because of it...

Wilek-I would counter what you said about Leos with some information I recently came accross, but then I'd be saying too much.
As far as the Sailor Moon being censored... Among other things, its a Japanese cartoon, so its gonna get censored anyway, since Japan has different ideas about whats okay to air on television. SM is missing a lot of things from the Japanese version, including nudity, minor cussing, certain character traits, (That cats have a more interesting relationship in the Jap. version, and a gay guy was turned female...) and clearly, the crosses were also cut out. Plus, its shown at a kid friendly time-slot on a kid friendly station. And Cartoon Network censors a lot, like certain scenes from Robotech, (Heck, the whole Invid invasion was cut because there's a cross dresser in the first couple episodes.) and they also cut the Sonov-a-vitch song from Road Rovers, among other things. I wouldn't have double posted here with the room as full as it is, but I hate censorship in all its many forms and had to say something about it...

Robby - [MrNoying@aol.com]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 01:30:22 AM
IP: spider-tp073.proxy.aol.com

**RP**
[The landing craft and SJ's TIE Scimitar are barely holding their own in a battle between the Empire and the Dark Star's forces. Wilek: "We have to get on board the Dark Star! I've been listening to their comm channels, and this whole thing started when some saboteurs on board disabled the DS's shields!" Jake: "Easier said than done, man! There's a snot load of TIE fighters out there and a lot of them aren't on our side. Some have enemy pilots, but they're of Dark Star registry, so this thing's threat assessment system won't let me shoot 'em!" Miriam: "Why don't you simply deactivate it?" Teri: "It asked us for a password!" Miriam: "What? That should be impossible..." Wilek: "More sabotage, has to be. We have to get on that station and figure out what happened..." This whole thing would make a great fanfic.]
**PAUSE RP**

Interesting thought> They edited out some scenes in Sailor Moon where the girls were tied to crystal crosses. Yet they left in a scene in The Lawnmower Man where Jobe affixes that one guy to a black cross and tortures him. This was not on a premium channel, this was broadcast. Hypocrisy?

Coyote> YES!!! Congratulations on the upgrade, man! Finally, you've rid yourself of that old calculator and gotten a REAL machine! There's something about owning powerful machinery that does something real interesting to the male ego, isn't there? I know that's the case with me. It makes you want to hike up your pants, sniff, and say in a redneck voice: "Yeah, I got me a Pentium now. What *you* got under that there hood, boy?" Well, that's the effect on humans anyhow, at least according to Scott Adams. We gargs tend to beat our chests like Tarzan, roar a little more than usual, and speak like a knight issuing a challenge. (Fortunately, I was able to resist that particular urge for several days after getting my current computer.) Speaking as a former 386 owner (a time long since past, thank Oberon), I know just how excited you are about this. BTW, I think you'll have an easier time installing that scanner, now that you probably have Windows 95 or 98.

Fleur> Ack, you have to leave?! <snif> Come back soon...

Leos taking over the world> Actually they're just the foot soldiers for us Capricorns. Heh heh heh...

GB> <<That would just kick ass!!>> Really, what would the Pope say about such language? ;) j/k Eh, Santa Claus was killed a few centuries ago? Now THERE's a Timedancer story. I wonder if that'll show up in the holiday issue of Avalon Mists...

"The Princess Bride"> Go to www.rinkworks.com and click the image that says something like "Duel Of The Ages" for a bizarre but entertaining story with about a gazillion TPB quotes.

Heather> Sailor Midael ROCKS!!!

Ravyn> Ack, you're leaving too? We'll miss you...

Theresa> <<Names and phrases are funny. Something totally innocuous to one person, could get you shot by someone else.>> That reminds me. The former principal of a friend of mine's school, surnamed Hammond (the principal not the school), had a relative who would hit anyone who pronounced his last name as "Hammonds", which was an easy mistake to make because there was a student at that school named Hammonds. Hm. <<We all know eggplants aren't too intelligent.>> You been in SJ's lab recently? When I was there, several of the things were debating about quantum mechanics and chaos theory as applied to Fey abilities. No matter how weird any of your lives are, I think SJ could top it.

Jackal> Suicide?! That's never the way to go, man. If there's something particular that happened to cause you to get like this, then we can help. Feel free to vent here if you feel you need to. Believe me, if we lose you, we're losing a very welcome amount of twistedness in the CR.

Religion in Gargs> Well, in my fanfic, there's Forfexx here who was actually Longinus. And Anoth here is a Greek Catholic.

**RESUME RP**
[The landing craft and the Scimitar finally make it into one of the Dark Star's numerous landing bays--and are greeted with the sight of several of Guod's Borg shock troops fighting it out with Dark Star stormtroopers and automated defenses. Wilek: "So *this* is who's been sabotaging things...it figures that Zale, Jerec, AND Guod are all in on this..." Several Borg scuttlers happen to see the team and open fire...SJ: "Oh, SHOOT! Man, I had my fill of those stupid things back at Area 51!"]
**END RP**
Wilek Nereus
Sunday, December 6, 1998 01:03:06 AM
IP: tnt-2-176-56k.portsmouth.zoomnet.net

I'll keep it short now, the room is way past 400K, and it doesn't get cleared until tomarrow! Jackal-Don't think about suicide. Stephen- There is no FF8 yet. Mandi and Ravyn- Thanx for the story links, I haven't read them yet. Durid- I'll proofread your stuff. May as well, I'm proofing like four other people's stories already... Mary- Happy early B-Day! Coyote-I'm IMing you right now... And lastly, Total Recall 2070 is going to be a series, not a movie.
RPers, try not to take the battle out of SA yet, I want to do something monday RP related after the room clears...
Robby - [MrNoying@aol.com]
Sunday, December 6, 1998 12:04:00 AM
IP: spider-tp044.proxy.aol.com

SJ> I think it's a "what if Buffy never showed up" scenario; my money is that Willow ended up as a vampire.

Kitania> **raises hand** I got it! I got it! :)

People for Plants> Gee, that IP sounds familiar, doesn't it, Spike? ;)

Geez, I haven't IMmed in a long time, but what the heck: if anyone's curious, my screen name is Mandolin 6. (Someone else had my nickname! Sob!)


Mandi Ohlin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 11:55:45 PM
IP: 144.175.17.40

Coyote> Oh, I'm not thinking of staying behind just because of the RP! It is fun and all, but I wouldn't miss a tournament for it! (no offense!) It's just that the coach is only going to take so many players, and if he decides to bring along one of the really good JV girls, then I get to stay behind. :( Oh, well, either way, I'm sure I'll have fun! :)

Kitainia> Thanks for the support! :)
Ravyn
Saturday, December 5, 1998 11:40:12 PM
IP: svm-ts6-15.c2i2.com

Got back from "A Bug's Life" and I and my daughter LOVED it! I especially liked the fact Jonathan Harris (The ORIGNIAL Dr. Smith from Lost In Space) had a part in it!

Deuce> What!? Cursing my Second Hometown??? What? Did the Lighting beat out your hockey team? The Bucs win last week? What did Tampa do? <smiles> Not angry, just curious.

Rayvn> Yep, I get that a lot. People call me 'Steven' and a few do the 'Stefan'...

Maintain and Check Six! ***goes off chuckling at the line "How many cockroaches does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Don't know! Soon as the light goes on, they SCATTER!"***
Stephen "Coldstone" Sobotka, Jr. - [stephenrs@xoommail.com]
Spokane, WA, USA
Saturday, December 5, 1998 11:36:09 PM
IP: m4.ieway.com

I just had to add this.

I saw a commercial for the new Buffy episode. It has Willow....I guess under a spell or something....and let's just say she's all freaky and wearin' leather. And she's lickin' people. I swear to God, Joss Whedon ripped this one right out of my fantasies...

DEUCE: Yes, actually, it hurts me to be the voice of reason. I had a headache for hours afterward. Finally, I can be goofy again!

DOUG: Um...excuse me...but I don't remember saying that you force your beliefs on anyone. I saw you two guys getting pissed off, and I just wanted to cool you guys down.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 11:24:23 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.webcache.erols.net

**RP!** On the highway, Coyote's tank pulls up beside the Onslaught and he talks with Jammer and Gubio about the various Borg-monster problems. The Ravens inside the truck realize Doug and Kitainia need their help and decide to head for the River Walk, where they were last seen. The two vehicles drive off, Mitsuki and Mothra having turned away from them to respond to a call for help from Godzilla. On the road itself, meanwhile, four flattened heads suddenly pop up. "Borgis and Butt-Borg!" Borgcut rages. "Do you morons even know how to drive a tank?" Butt-Borg answers, "Uh, no." "It doesn't matter if they do or not," says Borg Dreissen. "The tank's been destroyed now, okay?" "And if it wasn't for their stupidity, we'd still have it!" yells Borgcut. "Next time I'm driving!" "Aren't we, like, supposed to be giving the orders here?" asks Borgis. The four then vanish through one of Guod's portals for repairs on their smashed bodies.

The screen changes to the Alamo, where the good guys are enjoying watching the monsters kill each other. King Kong has already perished on the good side due to Godzilla burning his fur off, but not before he broke all three of Ghidra's necks, also taking that monster out of the fight. Godzilla and his mechanical double are now facing off against Gigan, Megalon, and the spike-shelled Anguilias. The sides seem evenly matched. Inside the Alamo itself, Kitainia smiles and turns to face the CR. **PAUSE RP**

Coyote: Don't worry, it's completely okay. I was just pointing out the possible consequences of you doing that in the RP. Good job taking out the morons' tank, even if they did survive being flattened. (How they did probably has something to do with their assimilation programs.) Hope you guys can find us at the Alamo, the remaining monsters are fighting each other to a standstill but we need to kill them all before any more of San Antonio is destroyed.

Robby: I hear they're also making a Total Recall 2, hope it's at least as good as the first movie.

Green Baron: Well, these clowns don't exactly consider a lot of people saints other than themselves. And they are by no means saints, as everyone knows by now. Their play was supposed to be a reenactment of the first South Park ep, twisted to suit their purposes. Making a terrible cartoon even worse of course only increases my dislike of them.

Jackal: *SPOILERS* Read your third fic. So it was all a dream, huh? Good, I was getting pretty freaked out and worried all throughout. Although I liked what you did with Angela. She's the closest thing Gargoyles has ever had to a Mary Sue character, and was shown to be quite different in your saga. Kudos! *SPOILERS END*

Speaking of Mary Sues, I'm glad they aren't in most of the good fanfic universes such as TGS or Christine's work. A lot of fanfic writers out there unfortunately fall into the trap with characters like Kjay's Mysteria or Ryan Stout's Gemini. (This is just my opinion, I know it is not shared by a lot of people.) Then there are the ones like Tara O'Shea's Rowan, who are enjoyable even if they are Mary Sue-ish. One of Doug's characters, Changeling, has also been accused of being a Mary Sue type recently. If any who have read the events concerning her in "Masterpiece" and/or "Through the Ages" here agree, fear not. She's not going to stay that way forever. In fact, in her next appearance, she will make several very big mistakes. Uh oh, Doug's not going to like this, I'm giving away his plans again. Better get on to the next topic before I reveal any more.

Jackal: I've come the closest to committing suicide here of anyone, I think. You don't purposely crash into a tree while skiing and expect to live, right? If it wasn't for my family and the local hospital, I wouldn't be here today. The episode brought us all pain and anger, it was not fun. I'm still dealing with the consequences. What's the lesson from this? Suicide is never the right thing, it's just the easy way out of life. It's an escape, not a solution. If you die, your friends and family really experience pain. If you live, it's even worse because you have to face the problems that brought you to trying it. Plus, if you do kill yourself, you deny yourself all the happiness that could come when things get better, as they always do. I would never have met Doug, or anyone in here, if that branch had gotten an inch closer to my heart, and for that I'm grateful. You'll probably be able to say the same once your pain has passed. If you let the pain win and kill yourself, it will only continue. For others if not for you. I told Gore as much when he had thoughts of suicide a while ago. Now I'm telling you. Hope for your sake that you'll also listen.

Todd: Thanks for the interesting King Arthur info. I look forward to hearing more next week. St. Cadoc, huh? Wonder if he ever met the fay whose name rhymes with his.

Mandi: I've read "Wagner's Vendetta" and would recommend it to everyone here as well-written and hilarious! The best Vinnie fic I've ever read. It also has good development on Wagner, the Pack's terrible twins, and Demona. Kudos to Stormy for the entertainment!

Ravyn: Miss you, good luck at the game. I know you'll win, I have a feeling. <crosses fingers>

Durid: I proofread for Doug all the time, I could probably do it for you also. Feel free to send your stories to my e-mail. I'll also read them and give you feedback.

People for Plants: Your organization must be led by Pamela Isley, or she is/was a member of it. (Everyone knows who I'm talking about, right?)

That's all for now. Later!
**RP AGAIN** Mitsuki and Mothra arrive at the Alamo and join in the battle. They are both quickly killed, Mothra blown to bits by Megalon's lightning rays and Anguilias crushing Mitsuki underneath him in a spikes-down shell dive after Borg-Godzilla throws him up in the air. Anguilias is unfortunately now laying on his back and thus helpless. Before he can roll over again, Borg-Godzilla walks over and slices his belly open with claws, then blows radioactive fire into his former friend's innards. The spiky turtle roars in extreme pain and dies. Now it's just Godzilla and Mecha-Godzilla versus Gigan and Megalon. Kitainia and the others with her watch as the battle continues, Janice warning the US Armed Forces to "stay back and let the monsters finish each other" via her cell phone. The screen fades out, to be continued. **END RP AND POST**
Kitainia - [dierdre34@yahoo.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 11:17:26 PM
IP: fac-b-x8.lib.utexas.edu

Sorry for the double post ... anyone in here with AOL Instant Messenger, look for me (my AOL IM name: CoyoteBndo)!!
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, December 5, 1998 11:04:31 PM
IP: modem92.i-is.com

**picketeers bearing signs reading "Veggie Rights!" and "Politically Correct Veggies Today!" stampede through the TGS Comment Room.**
People for Plants
Saturday, December 5, 1998 10:58:00 PM
IP: dal-as3-2065.cmpu.net

Well the mystery is solved. We all know eggplants aren't too intelligent. By the by, Inuit people are most commonly called Eskimo. They dislike the name for several reasons, one it is the name given them by another tribe one of their enemies, and the lose translation is "eater of fish". My understanding of that translation is fighting words. Sometimes it helps to ask. Like Stephen.
I pronounce it with an f i.e. Stefen. Others pronounce it with a v. i.e. Steven. In part, my grandfather was a Stefen and my nephew is a Stefen not Steven. Names and phrases are funny. Something totally innocuous to one person, could get you shot by someone else.

I tryed to rent Mask of Zorro today. Hastings was out of 85 copies, which was great. I get a free rental when I go back in a couple of days. I might even get around to seeing X-files.

Bedtime calls people. Nite, nite.

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 10:57:33 PM
IP: proxy-311.public.rwc.webtv.net

Sorry again. That previous post was mine.
kathy - [kpogge@atl.mediaone.net]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 10:19:40 PM
IP: client38034.atl.mediaone.net

Felicia wrote I know tthat the TGS staff did not mean to but when you use pharses like "lacks the intelligence of an aubergnie" it is racist and wrong. I can't tell you how offensive it is andphases like that should be dropped from our vocabulary."
Sorry, typo. The word should have been spelled 'aubergine'. It's another word for "eggplant". If any eggplant have been offended then I am truly afraid.

Beth > fay touched or just gifted - hmm, interesting question. Isn't it?
Anonymous
Saturday, December 5, 1998 10:18:25 PM
IP: client38034.atl.mediaone.net

**RP!!**The screen lights up, revealing Coyote and crew still being pursued by the Borgified monsters. Coyote is still deep in thought; everyone else looks at him for guidance.**

<"Well?">

Don't rush me! **looks ahead** Okay, change of plans! Load up a twelve-incher, Jason.

<"Gotcha."> **Jason ducks under.**

Cover your ears, folks, this is gonna be loud!

**A giant BOOM! accompanies the firing of the tank's massive turret, blasting a shot across the bow of the other tank gaining on the Onslaught. The other tank revolves its treads, turning to face Coyote's M1.**

Okay, knowing the guys driving that thing, it's going to take a while for them to get here. So let's make some replies in the meantime. **END 1ST HALF RP!!**

Brooklyn at the Crucifixion: Actually, I seem to recall that when I learned about the Crucifixion in Sunday School, the evening became dark at an unnatural time on Good Friday (to signify God's wrath), which I had always heard estimated at around 3 PM. But still, I would think it would be dark enough for Brooklyn's garg-biorhythms to become totally wonky if he arrived to witness the event.

Religion in fics: I try to use it only when appropriate. Example from my own fics **SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT!!**: "Life and Death at Castle Wyvern," I had Goliath praying for his daughter's life in a room I figured the Castle would have (a chapel). In fact, he prefaces his plea by saying "I know you don't hear very many gargoyle prayers ..." so I tried to keep with the idea that I'd heard before in some other fics (Spike's comes to mind) that the gargoyles practice solstice worship; however, Goliath has kept the human religions as part of his self-learning, because, as I put it, "he always felt a need for something to believe." **END SHAMELESS PLUG! IT IS NOW SAFE TO RE-ENTER THE WATER!!**

Ravyn: Please, don't stay behind just on our account. A torunament title is a great thing to try for (this from someone who won two state championships in high school marching band), I for one wouldn't want you to have to miss it just for this silly thing. I can hold the fort until you return.

Christine: Well, *I* liked it! And if you think about it, it probably makes a lot of sense!

Deuce: YOU SAID THE MAGIC WORD! (the magic word being "tenor sax.") That's my instrument. It's also my heirloom ... maybe when I get around to posting pics of my car I'll post pics of the horn, too.

Mary Flanders: Happy early-B-Day! Say the word and I'll personally order another Chocolate Execution cake for you.

Green Baron: HEY, THAT'S MY LINE!! ;) j/k, don't sweat it, really. I don't particularly care for the McLaughlin Group, anyway.

Todd: I always thought he had some weird fascination with their bloodline. At least, that's how I wrote him into my fics.

Robby: Yes, I'm a poet. Ask me sometime about the 22-line poem I wrote in college about toilets. Big fun. And I wrote it for class, too!

Starsinger: It's not just restricted to Australia, either; I listen to Canadian radio and have heard the Inuit people referred to as "aboriginals."

Mandi: Yes, quite. I love having a fast connection!

**RESUME RP!!**

Range, anyone?!

<"200 yards and closing, boss!">

All right, Buick, time to play chicken.

<"You're kidding!">

What's wrong, Ravyn, haven't ya played chicken before?

<"A couple times, but never with TANKS!!!">

And why would you ever thank anyone for playing chicken?

**Ravyn groans about the bad joke as the two tanks speed toward each other.**

Steady ... steady ... NOW, BUICK!

**Coyote's M-1 swerves wildly to the left, as the two Borgified idiots' tank (along with their Borgified teachers) zooms past ... right into the path of the Borgified monsters.**

<"This sucks.">

<"Yeah.">

**The monsters, not realizing what they're doing, completely flatten the tank and its occupants as the screen winks off.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, December 5, 1998 09:07:51 PM
IP: modem111.i-is.com

Aaah... I slept 'til 11:00 this morning, did lots of French homework, and now I get the computer. Wow... we're at 420K. That's BIG.

GREEN BARON re: COMMERCIALIZING CHRISTMAS> Recently, Alberta's very own local phone/long-distance/internet provider/cellular service/Big Brother company had to pull an ad that featured the Three Wise Men presenting the Christ Child with frankincense, myrrh, and a Telus Mobility cell phone package. TRIVIA! Nowhere in the Bible does it mention how many Wise Men there actually were at Jesus' birth. As for not commericializing Lent, just wait. It'll happen. (re: RELIGIOUS CHARACTERS) Like Mulder being "Jewish"?

JACKAL re: SUICIDE> I've thought about it, and was about five seconds from actually doing it. Don't ask me why I didn't; my general response is that I "chickened out". Lame excuse, je sais, but I've no better reason. Similar feelings resurfaced this fall as a result of The Rumour and its results, but I was able to keep a better handle on them.

SJ> You? The voice of reason? *falls over laughing* (Just kidding, man.)

MARY FLANDERS> Happy early birthday! I know I'll forget before Friday, so birthday bump time!!! *several people from the room come up, seize her by ankles and wrists, and bonk her on the floor 17 times* One for good luck, ya know.

For any people who wish revenge, my 15th birthday cometh on June 25, exactly six months from Christmas. (I know I'll regret this later).

RELIGION> I'm Roman Catholic. That's it. I'm not TOUCHING this one. *nod to Doug, who'll know why*

T.J.> RoUSs? Uh, look behind you. >:)

That should be all for now. I think I'll go watch Lion King 2 now. Au revoir!

** leaves **
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
City of Champions *curses Tampa Bay*, Alberta, Canada
Saturday, December 5, 1998 08:38:02 PM
IP: ppp0208.connect.ab.ca

Uh, may I ask for Proofreaders? With Krytina gone, and now Fluer on vacation.... Can I ask for a proofreader who will not disappear before they proofread my story, now stories? :) Got attacked by a creatavity demon and it wouldn't let go until I made this short story. (AAARRRRRGHHH!!! Leggo! Letg-ACK! GURGULE GURGLE)

Oh, and something TGS related. Some of the other plot-lines that have yet to be done. At the beginning of this season, Garlon says he is going to Austrlia. Heheh, not very many fanfics have Dingo and Matrix in their stories, hope the TGS puts those guys in. Also near the beginning of the first season of the TGS, Jerry Pearson picked up a piece of the Coyote robot that the clan destroyed. Nothing was written of what he found out from that piece.
Doug: Know better than to mess with a good thing? I don't think so. Look at what happened in the Gargoule third season, instead of improveing the marketing technuque, which could have been easily improved, they messed with the show, which was a good thing.

Jaden: Disney having people everywhere? Hmmm, wonder if they are actually a front of the Illumaniti (I know that isn't spelled right). Has anyone here heard of my consparicy theory about the ruining of Gargoyles?

Christine: As the angels? I don't think so, both Brooklyn's and Sata's horns would shoot that belief right out of the sky. Don't even metion Brooklyn's foot-ling honker. And I hope to read your next fanfic! I can't wait to hear about what Castway has planned for Elisa, Goliath, and Amber. Hmmm, now that Margot knows about Amber from Castway, what do you think she will do leagally. And will Chavez be able to defend Elisa in that matter?

Accidents: We don't exactly have to slow down you know. We see 2 cop cars, and an ambluiance we have to watch for slippery blood smears on the road. Don't want to get into another accident because of THAT. (sorry if that was in poor humor, I am in a morbid mood right now.)

Jackel: Humf. Well, there was a time in my life when I did serioulsy think about it, and it is a time that I would rather forget now. Though I never actually went and tried to do it. You just have to live thrgouh those times of your life, and hopefully come out of the end of them stronger than you were.

Aris: Beth a witch? With her Hopi hearitage she would more likely be called a Shamen. And I think that Crow was Morrigon.

Mary Flanders: That movie? And here I thought you got your name from the Simpsons neighbors.

Stephen: Aye, I rember reading that one. Hey, if you get a playstation, ask for Parasite Eve. Great modren-day roleplaying game.

Todd Jenson: I thin she is 100% human. The talent for magic in her bloodline I believe is mainly from this 'Could father' dance that her father, and who know how many fathers before him do. Having a 'piece of a fae' in alot of your ancestors has to do something.

T.J. Veil: Yeah, I would like to see that Madoc scene as well "You mean that Voguel clone is who!!?!?" And Mauve breaking down into laughter. Oh, and thanks for reminding me about my usual chatroom entrances and exits! though I haven't done them here.

Rayven Maza: Nope, not yet. I have DL it, now I just have to read it. Still working on Footman's fics. *sigh* This 7day a week new job isn't helping....

***The shadows suddenly move from their corners and Durid dissapears without a trace***
Durid - [durid@uswest.net]
MN, USA
Saturday, December 5, 1998 08:29:40 PM
IP: dialupf241.mpls.uswest.net

Doug & Mandi> Thanks! If I go, I'll miss you guys too! :)

BTW, since there's all this talk about religion and how some people can twist it, I thought I'd post a link to (in my humble opinion) one of the best fanfics ever written. Clicky on my name to read Dylan Blacquiere's "A Gargoyle Went A' Courting." Y'all have probably already read it, but it's a great story if there's anyone out there that hasn't! It's kinda long, tho, so give yerself lots of time to enjoy it. :)

See y'all around! *waves*
Ravyn Maza
Saturday, December 5, 1998 08:16:26 PM
IP: svm-ts1-11.c2i2.com

Saw "The Princess Bride" mentioned and had to jump in. I too love that movie, although "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." probably ranks up there with Star Wars quotes on the top ten most frequently used movie quotes of all time. :)

Heather> Sailor Midael looks really good! Cute! :)

Aris> I think that was just a typo that threw you off. (Felicia, did you mean to type "aborigine" instead of "aubergnie"?) As for Anubis, well, I kind of found an excuse for his adopting the persona of a god in a future fic (which won't be out for a long while, sadly).

Coyote> Congrats on the new machine! Isn't it nice?

Robby> Speaking of Vinnie, ever read Stormy's fic "Wagner's Vendetta"? (I will not spoil it further; click on my name to read it.)

Ravyn> Aww! If you do have to sit out, we'll miss you, and good luck with the tournament. (And if not...well, yay! You'll be here!)

Stephen> Seeing "A Bug's Life"? Well, you'll have seen it by the time you read this, but it's great!!

Doug> I wonder about Dingo and Matrix too; Titania of all people should remember them, since she apparently helped develop the Matrix as Anastasia. Hmm, there's a thought...what if that went along with her plans to leave a line of defense against the Unseelie? And I read "Through the Ages" last night, BTW, and thoroughly enjoyed it. **applauds** Now I just have to catch up on about a dozen more fics...

Religion> Always a touchy subject. I personally stay out of those type of discussions. But having a mother who survived Catholic school (she has many tales to tell about the nuns), a father who's an atheist (NEVER start a religious discussion with him), and a bunch of friends at school who are Wiccan, Buddhist, Hindi, I'm pretty open-minded about religion, although I don't like to discuss it much.

T.J> I believe the Sicilian was named Vizzini. "Inconceivable!" "You keep saying that word. I don't think you even know what it means." I have really got to get out more...

DumlaoX> FYI, I *am* looking over the script you sent me. There's a few nitpicks about the differences between C and C++ I'm muddling with right now. Just so you know.

that's all...
Mandi Ohlin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 07:54:52 PM
IP: 144.175.17.40

Aris The correct spelling is Aborigine. It means a native of Australia. Felicia was using phonetic spelling in her post. We met an aborigine in the gargoyle episode which introduced the Matrix. They even showed an important part of their religion. The dreamtime. My little dictionary says original inhabitants of a country. Any of our Aussie friends out their know what they call themselves?

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 07:49:29 PM
IP: proxy-321.public.rwc.webtv.net

***T. J. Veil steps out of the shadows***

The Princess Bride > I have to agree that this is one of the best movies ever. It ranks right up there with Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I love the scene with Miracle Max and the scene where Wesley outsmarts the sicilian (can't recall his name.) Oh, and RoUS's? I don't believe they exist. ;-)

I must say that there have been some excellent episodes of TGS lately, and I too recognized the several B5 references. One thing that I think I would have liked to see though, is Madoc's reaction to the discovery that Owen is Puck.

Thought for the day:
"Inauguration is simply a signal to assassins that a new target has been set up on the firing range."

***T. J. Veil disappears into the shadows.***
T. J. Veil - [hiddenagenda@rocketmail.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 07:36:16 PM
IP: welch-roberts-171-165.res.iastate.edu

KING ARTHUR AND THE CHURCH - In answer to Aris's request. Arthur was a devout Christian, but he does seem to have had some difficulties with the Church - partly because (in the TGS Universe) he had a half-human wizard for his chief advisor and an alliance with gargoyles, which so many people (including a lot of priests) in Arthurian Britain believed to be demons. There was also the fact that Arthur sometimes had to ask the wealthy monasteries to contribute to the war effort against the Saxons, and they didn't take it too well.

A legacy of this uncomfortable attitude that the Church had towards Arthur (on the one hand, a champion of Christianity against the pagan Saxon invaders, on the other hand, a consorter with "demons" and a "half-demon wizard") can be found in the Saints' Lives (an actual set of documents from Dark Age Britain) in which he appears, in particular the Lives of Saint Cadoc, Saint Carannog, Saint Padern, and Saint Gildas. I'd go into more detail about them here, but I think that I'd better wait until next week to go into details, when the comment room gets cleared. They're not reliable documentaries for the TGS Universe, but they may be based on actual events (if distorted) that took place during Arthur's reign in it.

The Church had some serious problems when Mordred rebelled against Arthur, however; despite some uncertainty about Arthur, the fact was that Mordred was an usurper, had allied himself with the still-pagan Saxons, and was anything but devout himself. When Archbishop Dubricius of Caerleon protested his behavior, Mordred tried to kill him; the Archbishop formally excommunicated him in retaliation and then went into hiding in the Glass Isles (now Glastonbury).

COYOTE - I hope that he's not an ancestor of the Mazas; I've always wanted to believe that Elisa's 100 % human with no fay in her bloodline. It's better, in my opinion, if she is fully human. For one thing, if she is, then that means that it's possible for any and all of us to do what she did: reach out to the strange and seemingly threatening as she did, and befriend it.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, December 5, 1998 06:45:50 PM
IP: pn5-ppp-228.primary.net

Hi.
You remember I told about I'm in a Sailor Moon RPG but it's with angels ? Here's my angel Sailor Midael - Angel of Warriors. I drew the pic !

** smiles and sees Q with his arms folded ** I'm coming , I'm coming ! Geez.
** snaps her fingers and she and Q disappear **
Heather - [kheetor84@aol.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 06:13:58 PM
IP: 168-127-193.ipt.aol.com

Jackal, Frodo, Doug> I believe that noone ever said anything about Aborigines. It was 'Aubergines' I was asking about. My dictionary says that this translates to the greek word 'melitzana' which is a kind of vegetable. So, unless people meant that fruits would get upset I don't see what you are talking about.

Is there something I'm missing here?
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 05:39:33 PM
IP: athe-l13.otenet.gr

**RP!** The Ravens and bikers are still running down the San Antonio streets. Methos is still with them, though the McLeods have by now both fled in terror. They eventually reach the Alamo and duck inside as Godzilla, MechaGodzilla, Ghidra, and Rodan close in. Doug draws a line in the sand with his foot and everyone steps over it, completing the Alamo's last stand ritual. Doug then turns to face the CR. **RP PAUSE**

Molly: Robin Wright played Buttercup.

Green Baron: No problem, it's okay. I just got a little ticked off when the scene I spent two hours writing and I was sure could work got taken down in such a Pastor Paul -esque manner. But I hold no grudge against you, don't worry. Now I'll just drop this topic.

Coldstone: I completely agree with you about religion. My grandparents are Baptist, mom Episcopalian, stepfather Catholic, sister practically an Aggie-worshipper, Lisa and I follow our own amalgamated religion; and we have Wiccan (is that the proper spelling?), pagan, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, and born-again Christian (but tolerant) friends. So we're pretty pro-religious freedom people. It's only the religion of those like Pastors John and Paul who try to ram religion down your throat and threaten you based on it that we have problems with. I don't think we do that ourselves, no matter what SJ thinks. :P

Wilek: Since I may not be able to e-mail this to you, I'll say it here and now. Your Doom Commandos sound TOUGH! I'll make cards for them later, and for the rest of you. Glad Forfexx liked the line I gave him. Thanks for the message, too. That's all I have to say in reply.

This talk of Aborigines reminds me. When, if ever, are we going to see Dingo, Matrix, and Coba (the shaman) again, and when we do are they going to fight the Unseelie monster Whowies?

Ravyn: Will miss you if you go, but good luck in your basketball game.

Coyote: Be alert, that tank I have driving toward the Onslaught is there for yours to destroy. You can get the two inside also, feel free to do a little comedy bit if you're familiar with Buzzcut (ex-Army jerk coach) and Van Dreissen's (hippie English teacher) characters. Good luck.

Today's RP Bad Guy OverPower Card: I haven't made up any more yet, sorry. Will post one if I have it for the next post.

That's all for now, later ppl!
**RP AGAIN** The monsters, under command from Guod through their Borg implants, surround the Alamo. "This is it," Doug sighs, getting into a sniping position. "Wait," says Lathrop, who is flipping through his spellbook. "I may have found something." He reads off a page and summons King Kong, Anguilas, Gigan, and Megalon. These four monsters appear beside the enemy monsters and begin fighting them. Gigan grabs Rodan and cuts the pterodactyl to ribbons with his chest buzzsaw. A huge all-out battle then ensues between the remaining monsters, the good guys sit back to watch. The screen then goes blank, to be continued! **END POST AND RP**
Doug
Saturday, December 5, 1998 04:32:31 PM
IP: dal-qbu-zoj-vty62.as.wcom.net

**Green Baron walks in slowly**

Doug> I am truly sorry for my earlier post. It was wrong of me to bring in McLoughlin in a such a jerky manner, and I am a putz for doing it. I am also sorry that I upset you and if you don't want to speak to me again, I understand. If you're really angry at me, I give you permission to have your Ravens kill me in an RP. I was out of line in that statement and if i could retract it I would. I also checked my Bible and it stated that Jesus was crucified on the sixth hour and he died on the ninth hour, and that the land was covered in darkness. In that case, Brooklyn could be awake, so I concede that I was wrong. Mea culpa! Mea culpa! Mea maxima culpa!

**Green Baron then readies to play drywall roulette and he runs into a CR wall head first**
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
Saturday, December 5, 1998 03:49:27 PM
IP: 201-228-186.ipt.aol.com

PRINCESS BRIDE> Yes! Very good movie! I love all the characters, especially Fezzik (aka The Late, Great Andre The Giant) and Indigo ("...You kill my father. Prepare to die!"), but my favorite has to be Billy Crystal as Miracle Max! He was just soooo fun to watch! ("Love is the most wonderful thing in the _World_... except for a nice MLT. Mutton, Lettuce, and Tomato sandwich... where the mutton is nice and lean, and the tomatoes are ripe <smacks lips>! They're so perky! I luv that!"). :)

SHAMELESS PLUG TIME!> Just in case anyone misses it, I posted my first 5 stories of my own Garg-fics to GFW, all revised and re-edited! <END SHAMELESS PLUG!>

RELIGEON> Being my family was Methodist, and one of my cousins recently married a Baptist minister, and one other and my sister became Catholic when they married, and that I know friends that are practicing Wiccans and Athiests, my view on religion in Gargs is somewhat mixed. But I will state this: so long as you don't try to cram your belief down my throat, you can believe what you want to.

Incidentally, in one of my own fics, I had Goliath and Elisa get married by a Christian priest, but that's as far as I go with religion.

Going out to see "A Bug's Life" with my daughter, while the wife goes Xmas shopping. I hope she gets me a Gameboy w/ Pokemon or a Playstation wiht FF7 or 8! :) Gotta go butter up to Santa! <grin!>

Maintain and Check Six!
Stephen "Coldstone" Sobotka, Jr. - [stephenrs@xoommail.com]
Spokane, WA, USA
Saturday, December 5, 1998 03:25:17 PM
IP: m107.ieway.com

Hold on, hold on..., I hate to be a butthole about this but, This is world isn't gonna come crashing down into cosmic dust because someone gets offended. It happens, it's one of the "cons" of humanity. I'm not sayin it's wrong to get offended, I sayin it's wrong to get all pissy and pouty about it, and not to lower yourself to the offending party's level. So what if someone calls you a jewish prick, ignorant X-ian, or whatever! Bust 'em in the eye and get over it, do not whine about it! I've been in several fights about stuff like that, and everytime it was settled right then and there. I didn't go home and get mad at society for it, I got mad at the individual and handled it. But then, as I say, "That's just me", I'm just a crazy little jackal.
Jackal
Saturday, December 5, 1998 02:36:53 PM
IP: spider-wg041.proxy.aol.com

Aboriginy> They are the native Australian people, with quite intersting religions and culture....and I agree that questioning theyr intelligence is not somthing anyone should do....exept if the individual whants to sound like an English aristocrat from the mid 1700's.......
Frodo
Saturday, December 5, 1998 01:59:41 PM
IP: ras119.vortex.is

Green Baron< My Clan is set in modern times.

Here are the names of my Roman Clan.
Minerva< Clan leader, named after the Roman Goddess of wisdom.
Mars< Secound in command, named after the Roman God of war.
Dark Speed< Gargoyle beast, made up his name.

Now I am starting to work on all three of their historys.
Lawrence Stone - [st1@bright.net]
Chillicothe, Ohio, u.s.a.
Saturday, December 5, 1998 01:59:01 PM
IP: chil-ras4-1-cs-12.dial.bright.net

*creeps in*

Princess Bride>The coolest love story on video!!! I don't remember the actress's name who played Buttercup, but she was also in the movie "Moll Flanders" (you can see where I got my name). She was VERY good in that film. Strong and independent women are my favorite characters. And she's so pretty!!! Now what girl wouldn't want to look like her?

NOTE>Dec. 11 is my birthday!!!!!!!!! I'll be 16!!!!!!! *gives everyone a piece of cyber cake*

Later ppl!

*creeps out*
Mary Flanders
Saturday, December 5, 1998 01:51:24 PM
IP: ramp-1-33.ucdavis.edu

**RP!**
**Ravyn is firing explosive arrows at the Borgified monsters that are chasing Coyote's tank. Buick is still at the wheel, swerving like mad. Ravyn takes a time-out to make some comments.** **END RP FOR NOW**

Rahsaan> I LOVE "The Princess Bride!" It's a _way_ too cool movie!!!! (and also quite romantic.) ;) BTW, Happy Birthday!!!

Coyote> Congrats on getting upgraded! :) BTW, I might have to leave the RP for most of next week. It depends on whether or not my basketball team is going to a tournament in Alamogordo, NM. I'll let you know, though, and then I'll try to figure out a way to write myself out for a while if I have to. :(

**TGS SPOILERS!!!**
I finally got to read "A Call to Arms." Great work! I really liked how you tied up the loose ends on some of the characters, especially Rory and the Banshee. I really loved the scenes between those two. And Beth as backup? That's a scary thought...;) Really, though, it's neat to see Coyote taking an interest in her. But what was that mysterious comment about Beth's grandmother? Hmm...and I feel really bad for Goliath and Elisa. Here they were, trying to have a romantic evening, and the stupid Unseelie war has to ruin the mood. ;) I really liked this one, TGS staff! Good job!!! **END TGS SPOILERS**

**MORE RP!**
**Mitsuki (Son of Godzilla) roars as Ravyn's arrows are hitting him. "Coyote, the arrows are only making him angrier! We've gotta do something!"
Mothra is gaining on the tank as the Gearhead replies, "Don't worry, Ravyn, we've got a plan...right?"
Coyote seems to be deep in thought, and the wild chase continues as this post ends...**
Ravyn Maza
Saturday, December 5, 1998 01:14:59 PM
IP: svm-ts3-27.c2i2.com

Time for me to be the voice of reason here.

RELIGION: It's a great thing. But every single time it's been brought up in here, someone's gotten pissed off. I don't think it's one of the RP rules, but I think we should all just take a step back and proceed reeeeeeeal carefully when the topic is brought up. This comment room is meant for diverse people, from different walks of life, including religions, to get together and enjoy Gargoyles and each other. We shouldn't have to spend our time getting in each other's faces and getting angry. So chill, hermanos!

By the way, I have no idea what a abergiwhooey is.


Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 11:30:35 AM
IP: cache-1.spg.webcache.erols.net

My native language isn't English, so forgive me for asking, but: what's aubergini? I checked the English-Greek dictionary and it says it's some kind of vegetable.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 09:15:56 AM
IP: athe530-b067.otenet.gr

I know tthat the TGS staff did not mean to but when you use pharses like "lacks the intelligence of an aubergnie" it is racist and wrong. I can't tell you how offensive it is and phases like that should be dropped from our vocabulary. I hate it when people use phases like "indian giver", "jew people down" "they're are irish twin" they are always said in mean spirit and never acceptable. I sure you did mean to but sure aubergenies wouldn't appericate having their intelligence questioned.
Felicia - [2funk@sprynet.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 09:07:35 AM
IP: hil-qbu-ppk-vty17.as.wcom.net

Religion & Fays> I doubt that any fay would have any religion that humans would believe in. I think that an almost unobtrusive, pantheistic one (where God=universe) and a general belief in fate or karma, could be shared by some though.

Beings like Anubis brings even more dilemmas and problems to the debate.

Todd> I would be interested in learning more about Arthur's problem with the Church.

Review> It took a little longer than I had hoped, but here it is at last.

**** REVIEW FOR 'A Call to Arms' BEGINS *****

In a nutshell: Yet another very good story that brings up and ties to the storyline threads that I had thought abandoned. After the mediocre 'Yorkshire Adventure', the very good 'Disobedience' and now 'A Call to Arms' bring rhythm and strength back to the Saga's storyline.

Let me begin by saying this: Yeah! Yipee! RORY IS BACK, RORY IS BACK! I thank the TGS staff for his return, and I apologise for my impatience in previous reviews. (It seems that Arthur didn't eat Rory after all. Ah, well.)

Ahem... Is it just me or is there a big B5 fan in the TGS staff? A few weeks back we had 'Signs and Portents', the title of one of the most famous episodes of B5's first season. Now we have 'A Call to Arms', the TV movie which will connect B5 to Crusade. Not to mention that Titania seemed a B5 fan. "Our last, best hope for peace?" LOL! (Okay, perhaps it was Lincoln and not B5 that she was quoting. Nevertheless...) Anyway as a B5 fan I thank the TGS staff for the B5 references.

Last week I had asked for Titania's reappearance, saying I missed her. The gods and goddesses of TGS were quick to answer my requests. Thank you! :) It was generally very good that we saw some of the Fair (and some of the not-so-fair like Banshee and Anansi) Folk back to the storyline. After so many evil fays, we really needed that.

Is Oberon aware of all that is happening? His absense is strange. I think he doesn't care enough about the events in the world outside, or that he doesn't consider the Madoc problem serious enough. Is Titania holding back info to prevent the all-out she's afraid of?

The joke of Emrys's school troubles is still a very good one. "Yes! No history class tomorrow!": LOL! (Though Rory's coming on his own, means that he WILL have history class) I mean, fighting Madoc is nothing compared to the torments of going through school... I still object though to the idea that Emrys would feel helpless fury against his teachers and the classes he has to go through: Let me expand on this.

If there's someone who has known the tragedies of life, that must be Emrys. He's older than Macbeth, his loved one betrayed him, his own father is trying to kill him, almost everything he had fought for died at Camlann. But more importantly: How many dark periods of history has he lived through? The Spanish Inquisition, the witch-hunts, Galileo's persecution, the Holocaust? In great part I can understand that his new form almost makes this the first time for everything... but still, he should have known of historical revisionism far before this time. I want him after a period of adjustment to get cooler about it, and *do* something about it, rather than whine and get frustrated and pod a blood vessel. I want him to show us the burden of his knowledge and the weight of his experiences.

Let's move forwards. The story of Natsilane and Grandmother brings and ties to the storyline yet another thread previously seemed forgotten. Kudos. (Though still other bigger threads - Matt in the Illuminati, ColdTrio, Mutates - still seem forgotten and I would like them to be brought to the story (not necessarily the Unseelie story- the TGS story in general) as well). I loved Natsilane's progress though I hope he hasn't left all his science behind him.

Similarly with Beth and Coyote. Another thread from the first season that is brought forward with interesting result. Beth, the witch? Interesting. Coyote is my favourite fay and I was glad to see him again. I wonder if Coyote's ties to the Maza family will be explored further. It could be an interesting background. Could he possible even be an ancestor of them, and the attention he gives to them similar to that of a man looking over his grandchildren? I also liked Elisa's frustration, concerning it, her realisation (once again) that her family will be involved despite her wishes.

Back to Rory and Molly. Their relationship and feelings for each other are confused and self-contradictory - which is precisely how it must be, since 'The Hound of Ulster' was itself confusing and contradictory in this aspect. I never liked in the original ep how Rory simply kills (or thinks he does) Banshee when she's revealed to him, or that Banshee would so successfully pretend to be in love with him. These feelings (of duality) in Rory were well expressed in 'The Tain' and are still well-expressed here. Kudos again.

I also like that Banshee would not care whether Madoc or Oberon rules, as well as the fact that she leaves at the episode's end. Though I think she will end up in the good guys' side, something far more personal than fear of Madoc should drive her to it. Fear for Rory perhaps.

Originally I thought the crow in the vision was a 'The Stand' homage. Rereading 'The Tain' I wondered if it was Corbie, who was a mysterious character, and I was mystified about.

Nitpicking time: Rory knew of Maeve only as Medb. Here he called her Maeve, though.

In conclusion: A very good story that serves to tidy up the incoherent mess that 1st season threads often ended up looking, and more importantly bring well-liked and well-needed character evolution in Rory, Natsilane, Banshee, Beth. Kudos, once again to everyone. When in TGS new recurring characters appear every single story (most of which are not interesting enough to have entered the story), going back to the old, interesting, well established ones was a very good move.

**** END REVIEW ****

Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 08:10:58 AM
IP: athe530-e078.otenet.gr

ROAR - I rather liked that one, though with reservations. One of the biggest problems that I had with it was the whole concept of the Romans invading Ireland in A.D. 400, given that by this point in history, the Roman Empire was having so many difficulties in western Europe that any sort of military adventure in an out-of-the-way place (as Ireland would have seemed to the Romans) would have been unthinkable. (In fact, they had to let go of Britain just a few years later, when the Emperor Honorius declared the island independent in A.D. 410 and told the Britons to take up arms in their own defense).

Incidentally, Fergus was played by the guy who voiced King Arthur in "Gargoyles", which led in turn to a "Roar" in-joke in one of my stories for "Pendragon", "The Goddess of Winter Part Three"; in the Accolon flashback of that story, Arthur used the alias of "Sir Fergus of Cornwall" while interacting with Sir Damas. (There was an actual "Sir Fergus of Cornwall" in Malory, which helped things out a bit there).

GARGOYLES AND RELIGION - I've sometimes wondered if Angela and the other Avalon gargoyles might have been raised as Christians. Greg was asked about that once at "Ask Greg", and said that while it might have been an influence on their upbringing, he didn't think that Princess Katharine, the Magus, or Tom were all that devout, and also that the Magus would have taken the time to research gargoyle religion before the eggs hatched so that he could teach the hatchlings about it. Still, I wouldn't consider it too surprising if Angela did have some leanings in that direction.

As to the other characters, of course, it's hard to say. The Mazas undoubtedly have some strong religious faith in them, or at least Diane does, in view of the "We can pray" line from "Deadly Force". King Arthur intended to stand vigil in Westminster Abbey just after arriving in London in "Pendragon", and he was traditionally a Christian anyway (although he had some problems with the Church in his time; more about that another post, if anybody's interested). As far as the new characters in TGS are concerned, I don't know about most of them, but I imagine that Merlin/Emrys would also have been raised a Christian (nearly everybody was one in 5th century Britain then, except for the Saxons and some of the Picts), if a bit on the unorthodox side, given that he's a practicing wizard. (His being a Christian doesn't make his feelings about his father any better. Merlin knows consciously that Madoc isn't Satan, but he may equate the two subconsciously, and that doesn't make him very comfortable. I wouldn't be too surprised if he worries from time to time about whether he might be condemned to everlasting Hell-fire merely for being the son of the ruler of the Unseelie Court).

As for the fay, the question of whether they have a religion is particularly interesting, given that so many of them are the gods of ancient myths and legends. I doubt that Oberon's religious, however, if for no other reason than that I can't imagine him acknowledging any being having authority over him, at least, not willingly.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, December 5, 1998 07:24:27 AM
IP: pn2-ppp-65.primary.net

<<Too many people have learned the hard way that suicide attempts bring you, as well as your friends and family, nothing but pain.>>
I've attempted suicide my share of times in the past, I'm not gonna lie about that. It's not that I'm going thur hard times, it's..., whatever. And yes I do outlet my mental problems in my "fics" why do you think they're soo sick? Oh, haven't posted that story yet, nevermind..., Anyway I'm just weird I guess...
Jackal
Saturday, December 5, 1998 04:24:27 AM
IP: spider-wg073.proxy.aol.com

<<how the hell did Chris shoot himself at the end and then come back to life? You better explain this, mano>>
You know, one of those weird endings you gotta think about..., I'll email you and explain...
Jackal
Saturday, December 5, 1998 04:01:02 AM
IP: spider-wg084.proxy.aol.com

Jackal: I'm still up, I'll answer you. Everyone has had suicidal thoughts at one time or another, they're normal. But they're also bad. Trust me, don't go through with it. Too many people have learned the hard way that suicide attempts bring you, as well as your friends and family, nothing but pain. So please, if you're having these thoughts, feel free to vent your emotions in here or by e-mail to me, and I and everyone else will try to help you feel better. We care about you, Jackal. We really missed you when you were gone last time. Please don't leave us for good.

Green Baron: Just checked my copy of the Bible for collaborating evidence. According to it, Jesus was crucified on a Friday evening and rose on a Sunday morning. Evening means night. So, according to the Bible, Brooklyn could have seen the Crucifixion. McLaughlin needs to get his facts right. And not to sound judgemental, but so do you.

Later,
Doug
Saturday, December 5, 1998 03:49:21 AM
IP: dal-qbu-zop-vty50.as.wcom.net

<<I'm sorry you feel that way.>>
No, don't be, I'm not. I wanted to ask yall a question and I wanted to be sure my suga-lump here was asleep, so she couldn't read what I was typing... But I was just wonderin if any of you thought about and tried to commit suicide. I mean, I know it sounds dumb coming from someone my age, but I was just wonderin...
End of today's rambling....
Jackal
Saturday, December 5, 1998 03:42:06 AM
IP: spider-wg014.proxy.aol.com

**This post is almost entirely fanfic related material. I apologize for posting it here and possibly cluttering the room. **

Christine: That is one nutty creativity demon. I don't think it would really happen, but thanks for the idea. :)

Robby: I'll let someone else do a Vinnie card, I'm only doing RP and fanfic characters myself.

Green Baron: I really do not appreciate being corrected like that, I am not amused by it in the least. No offense taken, but let me explain why I didn't like that comment. Listen, man, I am not the religious scholar you are. And every pic I've seen of the Crucifixion shows it happening at night, by the light of torches. Every story I've read of it also shows the event happening at that time. I'm sorry if I didn't get it right from your viewpoint, but I was doing the scene based on my knowledge of the event. Said knowledge may or may not be correct, after all I wasn't there to see the event happen. Please remember, Green Baron, that not everyone may know as much as you do about Christian history. Also, my stories are fiction and as such, take place in an alternate universe. Maybe the Crucifixion took place at night in that AU, even if it didn't in the real world. Therefore, Brooklyn could have seen it, and did in my fanfic. Too late for me to go back and change the plot now, and frankly I don't want to because I really enjoyed writing that scene. Now why don't you please go read the story before you make any more snap judgements? Thank you.

Jackal: *SPOILERS* I really prefer getting comments by e-mail, but I'll respond to yours in here since you posted them in the CR. Glad you liked the Crucifixion scene, I did too. The Jerry Garcia scene I intended to be partially funny, what with the Kevorkian line, music-related comment, and Meet Joe Black reference. I thought Garcia deserved to go out in comic style because his band's name and his songs have always made me smile. Yes, I am a Grateful Dead fan. Glad you had fun reading the story, Jackal, I had lots of fun writing it. Thanks for your comments.

I read your latest, by the way. Nice chemistry between Chris and Angela. But how the hell did Chris shoot himself at the end and then come back to life? You better explain this, mano. *END SPOILERS*

That's all I had to say. Later.
Doug Elder - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 03:39:09 AM
IP: dal-qbu-zop-vty50.as.wcom.net

**Green Baron enters teh CR with John McLoughlin who has a few opinions on the Jesus debate**
<Mc Loughlin Group>
Fact!! There are four non-Christian writers, including Tacitus, who mentioned a man named Yeshua of Nazareth and that he was executed by Pontius Pilate. The question is: Would it be controversial to have Brooklyn witness the Crucifixion?
Pat Buchanan.....Wrong!!
Eleanor Clift.....Wrong!!
Doug Elder......Wrong!!
William F. Buckley...Wrong!!

It would be controversial, because Jesus was crucified at noon and he died at approximately 3pm, and Brooklyn would be in stone hibernation. Bye! Bye!
</McLoughlin>

That was part amusement and part to explain my opinion. ASide from the fact taht Brooklyn would be asleep during that time, it would probably not be controversial for him to witness the Crucifixion. If Brooklyn witnessed events after that, it would be controversial since these are Christian doctrines, and are a matter of faith. As mentioned earlier there is some secular proof that a man named Yeshua (Jesus) lived in Nazareth, was a good guy, and was executed for blasphemy during the reign of Pontius Pilate and Emperor Tiberius. In fact, tacitus made some rather unkind comments about Christianity. I guess he is an honorary member of the ACLU and People for the American Way :)

Gun Control Facism> Personally, I view these laws as an example of the Religious Left's attempts to rob our freedoms. if the laws actually reduced crime, I might support them on a persoanl level, but in most cases, they do little to stem crime. On the contrary crime has dropped where concealed weapons are legal, like in Texas. As for Assault Rifles, I odn't see teh big need for them, but I see no purpose in banning them, since criminals don't follow gun laws anyway. Beisdes, the recent shootings involved individuals hwo did not get the guns legally. I prefer higher penalties for crimes committed with guns, which is a better alternative, since guns are rights, so like any right they also require responsibility.

Doug and Kitainia> These clowns sound awful and as Phil Gramm said, they make it uncool it to be conservative. As for Santa Claus, he was a martyr during the first few centuries of the Church named St. Nicholas. I really doubt Jesus would fight with a saint, since they are the cream of the crop of Christianity. As for teh way Christams has been secularized and commercialized I do not really care for it, and if I become a father, Christmas day will be spent with my family volunteering at the Salvation Army and Midnight Mass beforehand. At least they won't commercialize Lent :)

Jackal> I'm sorry you feel that way. As for the red light, the city makes money on traffic tickets, so of course they try to get them. In teh New Oxford Revue, a man witnessed a teenager slitting his wrists, so he calls 911 and a meter maid arrives, and she calls an ambulance. In New orleans, teh cops pull you over and a simple bribe is all taht you need to get rid of them.

Rashaan and Nicodemus> Happy Birthday

Lawrence Stone> Interesting idea. Is the fic set in modern times or ancient times?

Thanks to everyone on correcting my error. I was curious about who that was. Personally, I have no idea if that legend is true, nor do I really care. If teh pope mentions it, which I doubt, I'll have an opinion on the subject. I was thinking of that centurion in King of Kings played by John Wayne. "Well I reckon he was the son of God, pilgrim" :)

Prince of Egypt> I'm glad to know it is PG, because soem of teh stuff is not G rated. Personally, I would love it if Charleton Heston palyed the voice of God. That would just kick ass!!!

Religion in fics> I think it is a great idea if done right. In Dylan's fics, the Newfie Gargoyles are Catholic, though not overly devout. I think it varies among Gargs. As for characters in the show, I have an essay about Halcyon Renard and I used his religious views to explain his actions. It's in the Grimorum Arcanorum. Greg and I talked about the subject, and he believs in using religion to enhance a charatcer, but not for the simple sake of assigning a faith to a charcter. Soemtimes people throw in some details that give a character a certain faith without intending to, which is really fun, especially when I point it out to those talented fic writers :)

**Green Baron leaves followed by John McLoughlin**
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
Saturday, December 5, 1998 02:51:23 AM
IP: 175-188-134.ipt.aol.com

No, no, no.., yall are viewing this Jesus/Gargoyle thing the wrong way. To hell with religion, (forgive the pun), ok, here's this human, known for doing kind things, (miracles aside), nice, loving man.., coming face to face with a.., I don't wanna say demonic, but "traditionally thought to be demonic" creature.., that would kick asses up and down the road! I'd pay to see that! Anyway, I think I'm about to do my first *SPOILER* in "Through the Ages" Jesus did see Brook, and Brook was like- "Oh my God", that was cool, to me anyway. And..., something's crawling on me...., ok, anyway, I probably shouldn't have thought so, but I thought that part about Jerry Garica was funny, is that wrong of me? I was just amused by it, is all. All in all I had fun reading this story, and to me having fun while reading is what it's all about, then again that's just me. *End of my excuse for a SPOILER*
Speakin of fanfics, did i advertise my third story? Oh well, it's been up since Thanksgiving, it ain't goin no where. What else was I gonna say? Oh yeah...., wait I'll be back.
Jackal - [Jkal1127@aol.com]
Ga, usa
Saturday, December 5, 1998 01:31:46 AM
IP: spider-wd054.proxy.aol.com

SOMETHING** "Click click." **END SOMETHING?

32 OR 33 DAYS UNTIL TIMEDANCER SEASON 2!

Just found a very fun site that explains Macbeth, and has a large amount of humor to it. Hopefully, you can click my name and check it out. If not, the address is
http://www.webcom.com/falcon/Macbeth.html
It's funny, AND the story makes sense! Worth checking out!

Tonight I watched Miracle on 34th Street and Starship Troopers at the same time, flipping back and forth. Now THAT is interesting television...

Showtime has a new original series coming called Total Recall 2070, based off the Swartzenager movie...

Accidents- It just bothers me that EVERY SINGLE CAR that passes by one has to slow down and look at them, even if there is no flaming wrekage or anything interesting about it...

Leos taking over the world- Shortly after my post, I recieved a mysterious e-mail saying I shouldn't talk about it anymore to any non-Leos...

SOMETHING** "Click click." **END SOMETHING

Rashaan- Happy B-Day. Nichodemus, if I missed you before, happy B-Day to you too.

Doug-Tyl's overpower set is appropriate... I was wondering though, what would a card for Vinnie be like? I can imagine it now, special attack "Mr. C." Can temporarily blind the enemy, but slows character down by 90%, increases odds of getting hurt... Special attack "Comic relief" Vinnie delivers some of the best lines in the series, everyone stops fighting to laugh. Get in a free hit. A Vinnie card would be fun...

Durid-I should be registered, I haven't checked since I signed up... And as near as I can tell from what is referred to later, anything involving Two-Spear's line ended up dead and without too much to follow it up...

Lawrence Stone- Rome gargs? Sounds interesting. I have Australian ones myself.

SOMETHING** "Click click.""ZORAK! CUT IT OUT!"** END SOMETHING

Coyote- "While we run for our lives, lets make some replies." You're a poet, and you probably didn't know it.
New machine? Coolness.
Disney's attempted assassinations of other good animated films always fail, as Anastasia proved. And now its too late for them to release Beuty and the Beast as competition for Prince of Egypt anyway... (To any Disney people reading this, no offense, but re-releasing The Little Mermaid right before Anastasia was a slightly apparent ploy...)
And actually, when I spoke of opening night for movies, I was talking about the audience participation you only get then, not the seating...

Jaden-No harm done with my name... And it isn't too surprising that you found Thailog so easily, Jim plastered him with enough drinks to give him a hangover that could last for weeks...

SOMETHING** "Click Click." "Zorak! I said cut it out!" "Sorry. Gobba hey gobba hey gobaa hey hey hey..."** END SOMETHING
Robby - [MrNoying@aol.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 01:16:41 AM
IP: spider-tn062.proxy.aol.com

Creativity De -- uh -- Angel? >> All this talk of the Crucifixion has made me wonder why nobody's mentioned the flip side, esp. as we are now in the holidays season. Brooklyn and Sata as the "angels" appearing to the shepherds? ; ) 'Scuze me if this has been done, or offends someone; I just woke up and am off to work (where, finally, I hope to begin my next fic!)

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Saturday, December 5, 1998 01:12:58 AM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net

Kitainia: I bow to the wisdom of the RP Ref. Please excuse my lapse in timing ... shortly before making the last post we were going north of nuts trying to figure out why the monitor of the new machine wouldn't work (answer: the monitor was shot. At least it's under warranty.). My mistake, mea culpa ... I will *try* not to make it again.
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, December 5, 1998 12:33:48 AM
IP: modem66.i-is.com

Last post of the night...

** Deuce walks in, bleary-eyed. He is just beginning his sixth hour straight on the computer, and he has been reading X-Files fanfic for a good 1.5 hours now. **

COYOTE> Congrats, man! Welcome to the wonderful world of advanced technology! (Speaking as someone who just upgraded from a 486, I know how you feel). And yes, Dan and I are bandos. I play a very recently repaired and thus perfect flute, and Dan plays the tenor sax. (He's off the 'net for the weekend, poor guy). As for the S.O. issue, I'm nowhere near getting one. I think. *ponders*

FLEUR> I'll miss your interesting little brand of insanity. God bless, and come back soon!

** leaves, kicking himself for not taping "Early Edition" tonight. By "kicking himself", I mean literally; I'm quite flexible. **

Thus concludes Deuce's 4-post Friday. See y'all tomorrow (or, God forbid, Monday).
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
City of Champions, Alberta, Canada
Friday, December 4, 1998 11:52:09 PM
IP: ppp0172.connect.ab.ca

<Double Post Apologies>

Glad you're with us now, Jaden. If you want to see a good telling of Brooklyn at the Crucifixion (and yes, Jesus does see him), check out Doug's latest on the GFW archive.

Later.
Kitainia
Friday, December 4, 1998 11:36:54 PM
IP: hil-qbu-ppw-vty63.as.wcom.net

**RP ALERT** The screen comes back on. Mitsuki (Son of Godzilla) and Mothra (this is the caterpillar form, btw) are chasing Coyote and his tank. The others in the party are racing down the River Walk, trying to distract and get away from Ghidra, Godzilla, MechaGodzilla, and Rodan. Kitainia ducks into a coffee shop, drinks an entire pot of capucino in one gulp, and then runs back outside. While escaping from the monsters, she also turns to make a post in the CR. **PAUSE RP**

DumlaoX: Many thanks for your post on the censorship issue. I'm glad to know we're safe. For now, anyway. We must still keep our guard up.

Doug: Don't forget what the Remnant did with Kenny all throughout their play. They had him act just like their kind of twisted "Christian," and he "died" and got "raised" a la Lazarus just to promote the FE's view. I don't know why we watched that play. Oh well, something to do in free time. And the old adage about knowing your enemies.

Princess Bride: Cool, hilarious, romantic, and overall good movie. I liked Inigo and Fezzik best, but the other characters were also all good. Thanks for reminding me of it.

Happy Birthday to Rahassan and Nicodemus!

Get-well card to Dan, miss-you one to Fleur.

Leos taking over the world: We control the world already, people. You just don't realize it. Duval, Oberon, and Madoc are all Leos. And I am as well, I control my life, the part of the world I live in. Just as everyone does, Leo or not. So yeah, we control the world. But it's not a major conspiracy.

Gun Control: I'm all for the second amendment, personally. I think the good guys need whatever they can get in order to combat the bad guys. At the same time, we have to know how and always remember to use our guns safely and responsibly, not like the Jonesboro boys or Charles Whitman or Homer Simpson (in the Simpsons ep on gun control) did. If people would do that, we wouldn't need gun control laws. But they don't, so we do need them. That's my two cents.

Umbriel Pic: This reminds me how many pics have been done of characters that we can't use in here. Umbriel, Garlon, Ultra-Pack Jackal and Coyote, Sekhmet, Sevarius, Lucy, and oh so many more. Wonder when they'll be added.

Coyote: Congrats on your new computer. I must alert you to a possible continuity error in your RP. How did Buick know Gubio and everyone at the Onslaught was in trouble? Animal sixth sense and a psychic message from Tricia are two possible explanations, I suggest you use one of them. If you saw it happening in the CR through your tank's computer, that could also work. Just letting you know you should not just go blindly running off into a situation without telling us how you know about it first. RP can easily get out of hand if people keep doing that.

Also, are you aware how big these monsters are? This is Godzilla, Ghidra, etc. from the original Japanese movies, in all their fury. No wa a truck like the Onslaught (which is only as big as a normal Mack) could run over or even make a dent by crashing into them. The truck would be much more damaged than the monster. I trust there are enough cool heads inside our vehicle to not try anything so dumb. Looks like Gubio's shut-down program is our only way of stopping them. Hope it works!

Later.
**RP AGAIN** The Ravens, bikers, and those with them flee on down the River Walk, hoping Jaden will catch up to them soon and that Coyote can bring back their other friends. Meanwhile, aboard the Onslaught, Keith has succesfully disarmed the bomb (this one wasn't a collapsible circuit) and removes it. Jammer slows down and breathes a sigh of relief. "Uh, guys," Tricia says suddenly. "There's a big tank coming up behind us." Jammer looks in his mirror and growls. "It's the Borg-morons tank, piloted by Borg Dreissen and Borgcut! We better alert Shap and Gubio." Trish nods and sends a message to the two of them, who are still in the trailer. The screen then fades out. To be continued! **END RP AND THIS POST**
Kitainia - [dierdre34@yahoo.com]
Friday, December 4, 1998 11:34:09 PM
IP: hil-qbu-ppw-vty63.as.wcom.net

****RP!!!****
Jaden and Fleur run toward the sounds of battle as fast as possible. They find Doug fighting a group of Borg monsters. Fleur moves in to help laser cannon blazing, while Jaden drops the club he's been using. "That club is NOT going to any good," he says looking around. "I need something much bigger." Screen fades out.**

Doug-Bobby Oy! I meant Robby. I was in a hurry that night.

Nicodemus-Happy Birthday! By the way I like the name. I used to watch that cartoon all the time when I was younger.

Crucifixion-Brooklyn witnessing the Crucifixion, hmmmmm. That has possiblities. Brooklyn trying to stop it, even more interesting. Jesus actually seeing or saying something to Brooklyn...Whoa sensory overload!

Rahsaan Footman-Hey! How can you know about the our plans to take over the world? Only Leos are supposed to know about that!! Who told you!? You better not tell anyone else!!! Oh and Happy Birthday.

DumlaoX-Disney actually has people who surf Gargoyle sites? For a job? Um yes I'll take that job. Disney really does have people everywhere. Next thing you know the President of the United States will also be a Disney employee. Well if they happen to read this I'd like to make a suggestion...Make a new Star Tours ride. The one you got is getting old.

Robby (see I got it right this time)-Your a Leo and you don't know about the world domination plan? I'm shocked...you havn't been coming to the meeting have you. Shhhh it's a secret.

Princess Bride-I liked that movie too.

****RP!!!****
Tracker has finally found Thailog. He had been tracking for what seemed like weeks. He had left an obvious trail and had been easy to find. He moved from his hiding spot and approached him. Screen fades out. To be continued.
****RP!!!****
Jaden - [smokey1@silcom.com]
Los Alamos, CA, U.S.A.
Friday, December 4, 1998 11:30:54 PM
IP: pm1-12.sma.silcom.com

**RP!!**The screen lights up to reveal everyone on Coyote's tank lurching as Buick makes a sudden judgment call, turning the tank away from the chaos and running away from the Borgified monsters.**

BUICK!! Whaddya think you're doing?!

<"ARF! ARF!">

What? There's trouble with the Onslaught?

<"You understood that?">

Didn't you know, Jason? I'm fluent in dog. Oh well, fire off your arrows toward the monsters!

**Coyote, Jason and the Gearhead let fly with their arrows, striking the monsters square in their backs. The explosives in the arrows slow the monsters down for a bit, then they start chasing after the tank itself.**

Well, that certainly didn't go as planned. While we run for our lives, let's make some replies. **END RP FIRST HALF!!**

Why I'm so happy tonight: I have a new machine!! YEESSS! **compses self** Sorry. But I'm happy, I'm now in the '90s! For anyone who cares ... the new machine is an IBM Aptiva, with a Centrix 166 MMX processor and a 56K modem. Fun stuff!!

Censorship: I tried to post on this last night, but about that time my old machine threw up its hands and quit. Anyway, Doug, it was disheartening to hear that Tom Simpson (an on-line buddy of mine) was forced to take down his X-Files site: his Xena site is one of the biggest and most popular on the Web and he helped me and my ex in promoting our own Xena site. This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder ... if Tom or the guy with the KOTH page had been putting up photos of lewd sex acts, the ACLU would have sprung to their defense. However, since they were being sued over fansites and the suing lawyers were Baker and Hostetler, IMHO, the ACLU played chicken-s**t with the whole situation. (pardon my French)

Robby: That gets into a rumor *I* heard ... that Disney, in its tradition of brutally assassinating all other studios' attempts at animated features, would be re-releasing "Beauty and the Beast" with the intent of killing "Prince of Egypt." Although that rumor has turned out to be false ... thus far.

Fleur: Don't make me do this ... I promised myself I would cry ... **sniff** ;) We'll miss ya, Fleur.

Nicodemus: Happy Birthday!

Deuce, Dan: Dost mine ears deceive me, or do I detect fellow bandos? YAY, I'm not the only one anymore! (since AotN doesn't post as often as she used to) And I wouldn't kick you out if you finally found a SO, but I would think you would rather be with her than hanging around with a bunch of losers like us. ;)

Ravyn: Well, it just goes to show ya the corporate mindset ... no matter how devoted the fans are, if it interferes with their profit margins, they're dead meat.

Robby again: Acually, it doesn't really matter here whether you go on the opening *night* or the opening *day,* it's equally as slow. Example ... I was at my local theater at the *very* first showing of "Titanic" on opening day. I was there two hours early, having bought my tickets the day before in anticipation of the crowd. And I wound up with the best seat in the house (stadium seating, it's the middle of the sloped section.). I always go early.

Rahsaan: Happy Birthday, too!

Durid: That's nothing. This city (not Algonac) sent out three black and whites ... for a breakdown in the turn lane, almost in the exact same spot. Why would you need three, when two will suffice just as well?

**RP!!**

Great, now we're being chased by giant Borg monsters!

<"I have a thought, Coyote.">

Okay, what is it?

<"Maybe we can draw the monsters in the path of the Onslaught?">

Hey, that's a thought. I've been monitoring, they've got a Speed-style bomb aboard. Maybe we can get the monsters to get run over! Buick, full speed ahead!!

<"ARF!">

**Buick hits the acceerator, speeding the tank even faster than it had been as the screen winks off.**
Coyote the MUCH FASTER LOADING Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, State of Euphoria, (YEE-HAWW!)
Friday, December 4, 1998 11:04:52 PM
IP: modem66.i-is.com

Post #3...

DOUG> His site's up, but he's not writing any more books. Damn Paramount.

One more to get my goal....

(Sorry if these multiple posts bug anyone...).
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
City of Champs, Alberta, Canada
Friday, December 4, 1998 10:35:33 PM
IP: ts1371.connect.ab.ca

**RP** The screen comes on. The Onslaught is speeding down the San Antonio freeway, Jammer and Keith in the cab with Tricia. All of a sudden, a hologram of the ski-masked Tyl appears between them. "You know, idiots," he chuckles. "I left a few presents in this truck you haven't found yet." He points to a large metal box at Jammer's feet. "That's a bomb," he says as they all point weapons at him. "You go above 50, it's armed. You drop below 50 or go over 80, kablam! Later!" His image fades away. Jammer looks at the spedometer. "Aw, f&*k, I'm already at 75!" He starts to slow down a little as Keith bends down to try and disarm the explosives.

Meanwhile, Doug and those with him are engaged in a fierce battle with the Borg monsters, doing little real damage to them. "If only there was some way to get rid of Borg assimilation," Doug sighs as he fires a plasma-blast at Mecha-Ghidra, only to have it only cause a minor wound and then the monster assimilates himself to this form of damage. Doug dashes away from the monster's triple breath-weapon blast, ducks behind a parked car, and turns to face the CR. **RP PAUSE**

Hey, everyone. We have a huge battle raging here, and right now it's looking like we're about to lose. These things have already assimilated themselves to all our guns, Lathrop and Orion's magic, the immortals' swords, and most of our explosives. If Gubio were here, his Borg shut down program might work on them, but we don't know where he is.

Deuce: Actually, Phil Farrand's Star Trek Nitpicker site is still up, I accessed it earlier today. It just hasn't been updated in a while.

Dan: Get well soon. We're praying for you.

Happy birthday to Rahassan and Nicodemus!

Jackal: Great, I'll be eagerly awaiting your comments on my story. :)

Fleur: Miss you.

Kyryn: Uh, your name on the last post is not a link. I can't get to the site you were describing. Oh well, I probably know what's there already, being an advocate of gun control. I think they should be used for hunting and self-protection, yeah, that's good. But at the same time, you don't need to go Jimbo and Ned on animals, nor do you need an Uzi when a shotgun or rifle will do just as well to get the bad guy attacking you. Therefore, guns should be available to anyone 18 or older who can use them safely (i.e. I support background checks so these things don't end up in the hands of every John Q. Maniac), but it should still be illegal to give people weapons they don't really need. That way, everyone is in less danger. I know, this doesn't sound like I'm supporting freedom. But I have to also support safety amd responsibility. The two go hand in hand, and guns don't really promote either. Not only do they make maniacs or angry people even more dangerous, they can easily make someone crazy with power because they're such fast-kill weapons. That's what happened with Charles Whitman, with the Jonesboro boys, and in several other instances. That's my opinion, anyway. I prefer clubs and other non-lethal-at-first-hit weapons to guns myself, but of course since most bad guys these days carry guns, the good guys have to fight fire with fire. It sucks. But hey, if it gets the job done, and there's no other choice, why not use it? Ugh, circular argument. I better get off this subject and on to another.

Leos taking over the world: Hmm, Kitainia's a Leo. I wonder if she's in on the conspiracy. :)

DumlaoX: Thanks for flushing my wor