TGS Full Comment Room

Add to the Comment Room | Last week's Comment Room | TGS WebSite | Text-only Comment Room

Hi all!

Coyote: Sorry we didn't make it out today. Weather and personal stuff. Well... mainly personal stuff.

I hate Hard Drives. SMART status FAILURE... DERN LOT BOYS!
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Sunday, June 13, 1999 12:11:40 AM
IP: t3-27.visitus.net

No RP. Last night, I couldn't even get in the room practically. Tonight, I'm just too tired, and I want to see if TRC does post something. But tomorrow, no more excuses--an RP is certain. Sorry to those in my branch of the RP who I may be letting down.
BTW, thanks for the Pokemon again, Argent! :)

Pokemon: Speaking of Pokemon, I saw the absolute cutest thing in Wizare magazine the other day. (Wizard is a fanboy magazine about comics, to those who don't know). Every issue, one of their features is the "Top Ten Heroes & Villains", where they show which good guys and baddies are the most popular. This latetest issue had the "Top Ten POKEMON Heroes and Villains"--heroes and villains such as "Punishu" (Pikachu + Punisher), "Spider-Meowth" (Spiderman + Meowth), "Alaka-Shazam" (Alakazam + Capt. Marvel), and "Teenage Mutant Ninja Squirtle" (sort of self explanatory). They were even drawn like the comics characters. Nothing is more adorable than seeing Pikachu wearing a black bodysuit with a death skull and ammo on the front. :)

A MOMENT OF SILENCE....
For DeForest Kelly. He truly was a legend in science fiction, and was the absolute epitome of what all sci-fi doctors should be. And he was often the voice of reason for Jim and the crew....I'll miss him.

MOVIE NEWS!!!!
Some cool, and strange bits today...
1. Apperently, Jeremy Irons has joined the cast of the new "Dungeons and Dragons" movie. Hmm....this movie could be pretty good....
2. Apperently, the folks over at Disney are working with ABC to make a live-action Pinnochio musical for TV. So far, Drew Carrey is going to play Geppetto, I believe...but what's really cool, Brent Spiner is going to play Stromboli! The Puck sings!
3. Semi-scandal happening with George Lucas. Seems the author of the Dinotopia books is claiming George ripped off his designs from Dinotopia, and used them for SW1, such as the Naboo Palace...seems like a bunch of funny business, but then again, a few years ago Lucas *was* involved in attempting to make a Dinotopia film....

Mr. Sinister: I too am a big Sinister fan. He's always been an interesting character, IMO, and my second favorite X-Men villain. Plus, he's a true mad scientist, which I find endearing! ;)

Gargoyles Afterlife: I feel that one exists. It's only logical for one to, after all. We've seen the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain, leading us to believe that humans in the Gargoyles universe have some sort of afterlife. If they do, why not Gargoyles? It's possible they were created by the same deity as the humans. It could be the same afterlife as humans ("Heaven", for example), or could be specific for their race.
Personally, I'd enjoy it greatly if humans and gargoyles shared an afterlife. It'd be pretty tragic for characters such as Elisa or Matt to get into, say, Heaven, and be separated from their Gargoyle loved ones. This is one heck of a good question to Ask Greg.

The Weird Sisters: I too have the sneaking suspicion that they are actually the same being, just in three separate forms. I believe that in Neil Gaiman's "Sandman" series, he had his own version of the 3 witches, and that they were really one entity, yet in 3 incarnations. Perhaps this is the same with the Sisters....I can't really recall ever seeing them apart at any one time...

Paul: I think I should have explained myself better. Everyone has a psychological need for love and affection; we also have a need for companionship, to "fit in" with someone....anyone. It's part of our psychological makeup; we cannot truly develop socially unless we have the love or companionship of another, and this carries through until the day we die. (That's why solitary confinement is such a harsh punishment; it's not as easy as it seems to spend a extended period of time away from any contact with another human being). Some people are more solitary, and can handle lacks of love and companionship better, but everyone needs them. As for "peace"...perhaps cooperation would be a better word. Humans are social creatures; deep down we need to cooperate with each other to survive and thrive. In retrospective, I think that my use of the word "desire" was inappropriate. "Need" is a better word. Yes, we have choice in pretty much all we do, but we do need, on some level, love, companionship, and cooperation.
I was trying to make the point that Gargoyles seem very similar to humans in their mental processes. In fact, due to their very tight knit clan structure, I would assume that they are even more social than humans, and therefore would need just as much love, companionship, and cooperation as humans, if not more. (And they do seem to have this; with the exception of a few malcontents such as Demona or Iago, the clan is a very loving, friendly, cooperative family structure.)

Finally...about my JackaL post...I meant it. I'm glad to see a lot of you folks didn't take it the wrong way. I just feel that a good friend is about to leave us, when it need not happen. Jack, I'm serious, don't go.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Sunday, June 13, 1999 12:11:26 AM
IP: 207-172-45-179.s179.tnt5.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

Where is this Star Wars personality test?

Coyote> Thanks for the clarification on the harpoon thing.

Elisa and weaponry> I think she would resist wearing more than standard police issue while dealing with the usual New York thugs. Maybe she'd wear a bulletproof vest or carry a different gun in a stakeout situation, but nothing any other New York cop wouldn't be using under the same circumstances. If she were wearing something like Xanatos' exo armor, it would make her stand out too much in her capacity as a plainclothes detective. But if Coldsteel or Jackal and Hyena came after her, she might be convinced that she should wear exo armor when she went after them. I don't see this being a regular occurrence though. She's too fond of that black shirt/ blue jeans/ red jacket outfit. I think it would be pretty much the same deal for the gargoyles. They might arm themselves before going up against a specific enemy such as Coldsteel or the cyborg twins, but for daily patrols they'd probably wear the usual.

I wonder how soon it will be before the Unseelie become a threat again. They'd need time to reorganize if they were going to strike as a group. But individual Unseelie would probably enjoy going out at night to play nasty tricks on humans and gargoyles. And there's no Madoc to tell them to restrict themselves to Halloween - or to any particular city. If a large group of them did decide to reorganize, Garlon might not be the one who ends up being the new Unseelie leader. He's not exactly charismatic. We all know what Sekhmet thought of him. I see him aiming at a more Rasputin-type role as advisor to some other Unseelie who the other Unseelie would follow.

What do you suppose Thailog has been doing all this time? Any chance we'll see him next season?

There was something else I wanted to say but I forgot it.

Jenniren
Saturday, June 12, 1999 11:38:37 PM
IP: user-2ivf0cb.dialup.mindspring.com

Re: Gargs Weaponry>> I hate to say it guys, but you CAN NOT load solid iron bullets into a rifled barrel, due to the fact that they will wear out the barrel within five rounds and jack chamber preasure off the scales. For the uninitiated out there, this means that the accuracy will suck and your gun might blow up. As you can see, this ain't exactly an ideal situation. Smoothbore weapons, such as shotguns, would still work, but don't try to just dump iron rounds into any old gat
Ghost of Gunjack
Saturday, June 12, 1999 10:52:56 PM
IP: spider-tm054.proxy.aol.com

CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC

Homosexuality: I'll be perfectly honest on this subject; I find sexual relations between two men wrong and somewhat disgusting. But don't get me wrong, although I don't approve of male homosexuality, that doesn't mean I think male homosexuals are evil. I've known a couple of gay men (they're not the same couple) and they seem to be pretty decent guys. To me, a gay man is like some guy who picks his nose in public. He may be well behaved, well dressed, and a pleasent person, but there's something about him that bugs you. And although I don't like those who take violent action against gays, I dissaprove of special laws that protect them and make heterosexuals "inferior" in the eyes of the law. And I don't entirely believe the stuff that people say about homosexuality being genetic a result of living in certain environments. They are strong factors, sure, but it sounds alot of the old "Blame Game." As I said before, I don't hate gays, I just dissapprove of some of their activities.

Lesbians, on the other hand, I have no problem with. I don't want to sound sexist, but lets be honest folks. Hasn't anyone noticed that lesbians are more socially acceptable than male gays. In fact, many men (admittingly, myself included) find the concept of female homosexuality allurring. Personally, I'm surprised that the ratings for "Ellen" didn't skyrocket when she came out. Of course after that, all the episodes were all about her being gay, so it got real old real fast.

I don't mean to offend anyone.

END CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC

Yesterday I went to the "Mark-it" store in the mall to pick up a pair of urban cammo fatigue pants for an outfit I'm putting together for the gathering, when I came across a bunck of t-shirts that have the names of various Government agencies (ATF, CIA, DEA, FBI, INS, IRS). I instantly bought the FBI shirt (I'm a big fan of the Bureau, although I could care less about the ATF or IRS) and went back into my van and put it on. I went back inside to see a movie and people kept asking me if I was really an agent or were saying "Hey look! That guy's in the FBI!" And every time I came across a bunch of those so-called "Goth" kids, they immediatly dispersed. In the theater, there was a group of guys who where so concerned because I was hanging around nearby them that one of the guys asked me if I was an agent. When I told him I wasn't, he said he was glad because he and his buddies were drinking.

I think that me and this shirt are in for some fun.

In fact, I might go back to the "Mark-it" for a couple of DEA and INS ones. I'll take the DEA one and visit a couple of public schools, and then wear the INS one and visit a few businesses just to see how they react:)
Tim P.
Saturday, June 12, 1999 10:24:17 PM
IP: s13-onawa.pionet.net

Kit Cloudkicker... The Disney Prince of Darkness? Attached to my name (clickie) is a spiffy web page that analyzes Talespin, and makes quite a lot of comments that I think cross over to Gargoyles very well, including Disney's treatment of it, and it also shows that another Disney show has a dedicated legion of fans that wants their series back, and more, including brief notes from a Talespin co-creator and list of edits that rivals the ammount of edits in Gargs. Definatley worth checking out and reading everything if ya have a few hours to spare.
Robby
Saturday, June 12, 1999 09:25:13 PM
IP: spider-to032.proxy.aol.com

I think I finally found it! I first posted in here on October 1 at 4:42 pm...and I don't regret one second of it :)

****REVIEW FOR MOVIE INSTINCT****
I'll admit that I get a little misty eyed in the movies as much as the next person, but I usually never cry. This movie makes my third tear jerker. I get very emotional when it comes to killing animals. Very funny---one of the gorillas was named Goliath! Go see it while you still can!
****END REVIEW****

Deuce> I was actually referring to some damn hot gargs ;) But if I make contact with any other species, I'll put in a good word for you!

Green Baron> I just want to strangle Clinton with his freakin' Monica tie! If I were any member of his family, I would legally change my identity!

Gyre> Freakin' hysterical!
SOROW
Saturday, June 12, 1999 09:24:29 PM
IP: usr12-dialup372.mix1.irving.cw.net

RP WARNING!!!!
**Chicago, IL
Cardinal Francis George is in his Office with Father Frank, Sr. Steve, and the Catholic schoolgirl scouts. He is congratulating them for their efforts in battling the AmChurch and the Call to Action, a dangerous order of Catholic herectics. Syddnely a voice is heard on the intercom.

"There are spaceships nearing Chicago. Mayor Daley has declared a state of emergency. Everyone has been ordered to evacuate Cook County. Meanwhile, the base of Daley's voters have risen from their graves and are attacking the city. We need help and a miracle."

Everyone looks aghast at the news. Cradinal George talks to Ave Maria.

"Ave, we need your help..."
"Sure thing, your Eminence. I sense Dahak is leading this attack and raising the dead. Brigitte, contact Rep. Hyde and Speaker Hastert. We need them to authorize some major defense spending. Therese, contact Rome with the need for some major help and some exorcists. Angelica, contact Toku Kaioto in Boston. He may be bale to help us on this mission. He sent in aide for GB a few months ago, and I think he may like battling an evil faerie and his minions. Bernadette, get our manuals on fighting the undead. It's in the special catechism. Everyone, grab your rosaries. This may be a battle we can only win on a wing and a prayer.**
To Be Continued, END RP for now

SJ> You didn't upset anyone. You were well spoken, though I doubt you can top Kaioto :)

Starsinger> You're right, roomie. Both sides should be considered.

Glimmer> I've had my fill of family vacations, though lack of funds really make them suck. I will neevr subject my family to them, ever. I'm glad you like how I look in a kilt **blush**

Aaron> Yep, that John Bellairs is one and the same. He worte a series of parodies titeld St. Fidgeta, which was about a Catholic girl in german before St. Boniface came, and she was killed for her faith. It was actually a joke like the other saints mentioned, but fairly funny. How many of his tales have you read?

CONTROVERSIAL STUFF!!!!!

Homosexuality> I agree with what Kaioto said about it. I think the amin cause of homophobia is that radicals like Gore Vidal and Barney Frank are shown as representative of homosexulas, while I bet the vast majority of homosexuality are not what the stereotypes show. Even though I am pretty conservative, I alos have no problem with legalizing same-sex marriages, though I suspect Democrats back this, because they can tax homosexuals more,a nd I've always viewed that Democrats in Office get horny whenever tehy can tax someone. I picture Senator Schumer and the three Dems he lives with in his DC townhouse watching re-runs of tax bills getting past the way some guys watch pornos to get a rise :)

Wilek and Christine, I always thought choice applied to someone choosing to practice. I find it odd taht soem people beleive a homsoexual is a heterosexual if they don't have sex with soemone of the same gender. I'm a heterosexual who doesn't practice, but I don't think that makes a homosexual, which is exactly what those people would be saying.

Abortion> Yep, I have the same beleif shared by Kaioto and SJ. This is that controversial social issue where I am super- conservative, I guess it comes form my beleif taht life begins at conception, not birth. To me, tehre may be justifications for abortion, since therea re justifications for taking a life generally.

Gun Control> Charlton Heston absolutely rules!!!!! :)

END CONTROVERSIAL STUFF!!!!

Pistoff> That sounds ridiculous what happened to you. i wear a trenchcoat with my suit in the winter. I wonder what reaction I'll get when winter rolls around.

SOROW> I hate Clinton too. I'll be glad to see that SOB go. I wish he could be appointed US Ambassador to Thailand, where his antics can get him a nice case of VD. Clinton could also be an Ambassador to China, since tehy've given him so much money.

Gunjack's ghost> I imagine Elisa's in the NRA and she should go down to Texas where she can get some real guns :)

Star Wars personality test> I tested as Darth Vader. I odn't what to make of that :)

Now, I must go. That's all folks.

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Saturday, June 12, 1999 08:14:05 PM
IP: abd105be.ipt.aol.com

Here's a thought. I was watching "Action in The North Atlantic", and wondered how the characters in TGS would fit into a war movie from the 40's

Garlon, the evil nazi U-Boat captain. He specializes in ramming lifeboats full of survivors from his torpedoes.

Maeve, nazi spymaster

Madoc, commander of a nazi U-Boat Wolfpack. He only shows up when the escort destroyers take off after the decoy U-Boat.

George Harrison, commander of the decoy U-Boat.

Goliath, Captian of the tanker about to get torpedoed by Garlon's U-Boat.

Brooklyn, First Mate, who for some reason has never captained a ship of his own.

Broadway, ship's cook.

I can't think of any more for the moment.:(
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Saturday, June 12, 1999 08:07:37 PM
IP: fltg-ppp46.fltg.net

**enters the room, dressed in a fire suit, switching out the candles. People around the room start giving him angry looks.**

What? **looks down** Oh no, this isn't because of the flame war. Tomorrow I'm going to that race ... thought I'd dress for the occasion. **plops on the racing helmet, sits in the big chair** Well now, what's happened here ...

JackaL: Two words: DON'T LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!

**takes helmet off and places it respectfully over his chest in memoriam of Deforest Kelley**

SOROW: Revolving restaurant? Too kewl! Then all I'll need to do is get to the one at the summit of the Space Needle! :)

Star Wars test: I came up as Obi-Wan ... my mother came up as Chewbacca.

Pistoff, re: sucky stories: I'm still convinced that at least three of the fics I wrote in G:CM could've been left out, had they not had major plot points in them. (The three being "The Innocent Warrior," "Voices in the Dark Night," and "You're Not Cleared For That.") You're not alone, as Kitainia said. (Oh, and Mandi ... my offer still stands. Aim yer MSTie gun at any of my fics at any time ye please. :)

Dumb customers with buzzers: Heh ... I don't exactly deal with buzzers, but I *do* deal with folks equally as immature. But I have more trouble with people who don't keep their kids under control. Case in point ... one afternoon, when this couple weren't paying attention to their kid, it took the little brat exactly half an hour to ... **growls** ... push a bunch of distributor caps to the back of the shelf they were on and scramble the order to make them OUT OF SEQUENCE!!! It took *me* two hours to put everything back after the little craphead left. **mummble grumble**

Jenniren: I think I'm seeing what Paul is getting at, friend. He's talking about the differences of injury locations. While Oberon conceivably *could* eventually recover from the harpoon injury (much faster if it *wasn't* made of iron), Madoc ain't coming back from catastrophic head trauma inflicted by an enraged Demona swinging a cast iron morning star. He's talking about wound severity here, and in the big scheme of things a piercing wound in the gut will inflict decidedly less damage than being struck in the head with a heavy blunt object.

Hmm, the show just ended. Was watching that "Tarzan Live" show with the music ... I don't know about everyone else, but to me Tarzan looks like it's gonna be one hell of a movie.

Deuce: Bummer, dude ... hey, a bunch of us could get together and pummel the jerk into next week, whaddya think? (j/k)
Seriously, though ... I sincerely hope you have a chance to make up the project.

And that's all for me. If you get a chance, check out the race and see if you can spot me ... I'll be the 300+ pound guy in Row 9 of the center section wearing an airbrushed Goliath and Elisa shirt!

**puts the helmet back on, plants chin in hand, and fixates, though nobody can see his eyes through the face shield.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, June 12, 1999 07:58:24 PM
IP: 207.91.254.7

***INCREDIBLY LONG DC DEATH TO KICK OFF AN INCREDIBLY LONG POST!***

** Oddly enough, Deuce opens the skylights of the CR wide before beginning. He then approaches DC. His voice is quiet, deep, and laced with an edge that speaks of all the fires of hell... or more accurately, all the glories of heaven� denied you forever, while you watch your worst enemy enjoy them. **

I couldn't get into the CR all morning yesterday. Did you know that?

** DC nods, looking like a frighted rabbit. Deuce grabs his throat. **

I did, briefly, so at least I could compose some replies. Did you know that?

** DC tries to nod, but Deuce's hand around his windpipe makes it kinda tough. **

But then, I couldn't post. I tried. And tried. But it just. Didn't. Work.

** Deuce's hand tightens, and then loosens. He throws DC to the floor, steps on his ankle, and pulls out his pocketknife. He opens the longest blade: 2 1/2" (it's a cheap knife). DC's eyes go wide. **

It sucked to be me. But now it'll suck to be you.

** With a grim look of pure evil on his face, Deuce begins carving DC, first with light strokes, then deeper, more aggressive ones. When he is finished, there is little more than a pinkish mess on the floor. Deuce pours acid all over it, and adds a couple handfuls of some sort of white powder. DC's mutilated carcass bursts into pinkish-purple flames, hissing and smoking. Once they subside, a black scorch mark is all that's left. The toxic fumes float out through the skylight. **

***END DEATH!***

I... am... excessively... pissed off. Turns out the Drama presentation I was supposed to do yesterday fell through. My partner, who shows up for ONE out of FIVE rehersals, left the music tape with a friend who lives a few HUNDRED miles away. We, therefore, could not perform today. We, therefore, get a ZERO on our major term project. We, therefore, fail Drama.

** Deuce quietly goes severely insane... but then rights himself. **

SJ> Yeah, I watched parts of the movie awards. As soon as Mr. Perversity (aka Adam Sandler) came on, I turned it off. OK, he can be funny at times, but when every other word the guy says is "f�", it gets old. OK? You can be damned hilarious and at least keep it to a PG-13 level; overflows of obscenity totally turn me off, no matter what else he says.

SOROW> ["I vote that Stephen Dorff is the hottest *human* guy on the face of the planet!"] There are hot INhuman guys on this planet? Are their female counterparts equally attractive? Can I meet them somehow? 8-)

Kaioto> ["...this isn't half as bad as Freshman bus-rides home in Highschool."] Sophomores, juniors, and seniors aren't much better. There are these bus ads, with little pads of brochures. You're supposed to rip ONE off for more information on summer attractions/college or whatever... we crumple them up in balls and have paper fights. :-)

Gargoyle afterlife: My opinion, since I try to reconcile my beliefs with Gargoyles (it works, too), is that God know the ColdDuo would be returning to life eventually ("Of course I know. That's what omniscient means."), so He kept them in limbo. Or something. But when a gargoyle ceases to live (sufficeint damage to stone or flesh form), I believe they go wherever humans go. Fey... I'm not sure.

Wilek> ["..what *is* the point to catching them all?"] Umm... so you can say that you did? Maybe they all combine to form a Super Pok�mon? *smacks self in head* No, this is not Transformers....

Glimmer> *LOL at the Savage Garden reference* I know how you feel; my sister loves those guys. Good luck at the reunion. I've mentioned anecdotes from my family get-togethers before... maybe I'll tell them another time. Don't sound as hellish as yours, I think.

DeForest Kelly died Friday. *bows head*

...

The Jackal/Aris "thing": Never again. We are mature enough, we are intelligent enough, and we should be careful enough not to seriously offend each other. This incident arose from some extreme miscommunication, which degenerated into a near flame war. Both parties have shown not to get along too well, and they knew that. Toes were stepped on, tempers flared, and nobody stopped it in time. Either Aris or JackaL could have just stopped, but ego and pride wouldn't allow it. I'm going to EM JackaL on Monday and talk to him, and I'll do the same with Aris. I want to patch this up before anyone gets too mad/sad/alienated.

But never, ever again will this sort of thing happen. If anyone sees that two people are getting close to flaming, play administrator for a minute and try to defuse it.

SJ> Funny, you always seem to think you're about to tick somebody off, and then you don't. :-)

*sighs* And you know what? That's all, folks. See you on Monday.

** Deuce walks out. **
Deuce @ the library (Again) - [deuce@softhome.net]
Saturday, June 12, 1999 06:29:36 PM
IP: 198.161.203.25

Gunjack: Love your ideas about Elisa "upgrading." She and the rest of the gargoyles should've started wearing armor a long time ago, given the number of times they keep getting shot at. In my ficverse, I have them using armor made out of spider web silk, which has already proven more effective than Kevlar IRL. Elisa definitely needs to build up her arsenal, too, even if she only does so by stocking up with iron bullets. Though I have to admit it'd be amusing to see her get fed up, as you said, and load herself up with some heavy artillery. Maybe she can keep a chaingun in her Fairlane's trunk ... ;)

SJ: I agree completely. I don't think anybody here will hate you for being a voice of reason.

JackaL: Please don't go. Your comments have always brightened my mood after a crappy day. This mess will blow over. Don't let it drive you away. But if you leave already, or have stopped reading the CR, you'll be missed. :(

The trenchcoat thing: This is ridiculous! When I delivered those pizzas, several people said hi to me, and one guy started in with the "Ohh! Pizza! Is it for me?" routine. Nobody noticed my trenchcoat except that woman in the office. School dress codes apply ONLY to the students. I graduated seven years ago, and nobody in that hellhole has any business telling me what I can or can't wear. I wear my trenchcoat because I like the way it looks, and that's all there is to it. If anybody wants to stop me from wearing it, they'll have to rip it off themselves. Personally, I wouldn't advise it.

**POSSIBLE CONTROVERSIAL STUFF**

Christine: To be honest, I probably wouldn't mind if a gay guy hit on me. At least then I could honestly say that SOMEBODY did. I'd prefer it to be a woman making moves on me, but it's been almost eight years since I've had anything of the sort happen to me. If a gay guy made a pass at me, I'd say thanks, I'm flattered, but I'm straight, sorry, here's your ten bucks back.

Interspecies sex vs. bestiality: Zath said it best. We humans are animals. There are only two basic forms of life (called "kingdoms," if I remember correctly), plant and animal. Humans certainly aren't plants. Well, a lot of my customers could be considered vegetables, but still ... Humans and gargoyles are both animals, they're just sentient ones. If the plumbing fits together and both partners are happy with it, go for it. Too bad IRL people like me don't have that additional option ...

CONTROVERSIAL STUFF OVER

Glimmer, Dags, Wilek, GXB: Thanks for the support. :)

Kitainia: Ye gods, your customer story really hit home. I run into people like that all the time. Where I work, people are compelled to play with the bell on the door until we give them their pizza. And then there are the people who insist on jangling their keys constantly. But the ones you mentioned have all the others beat. I hope those childish twerps never return to your store.

And thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm glad I'm not alone, in regards to paranoia about my stories. They seem to be coming out okay, though ten years of rejection by publishers and magazine editors definitely takes its toll. Truce should be ready soon; there are only two major scenes left, I believe, then it should be finished. Then maybe I can have time for a full night's sleep and then catch up on some things I should've been doing weeks ago. Again, thanks. :)
Pistoff - [pistoff@anti-social.com]
Saturday, June 12, 1999 05:51:26 PM
IP: wire-14.koalas.com

Ooo, one last note - I agree w/ David G: Elisa needs more guns. However, don't mock the one she's got. The sucker looks like a Glock, and all of those, from the lowly .380 to the awesome 10mm and .45, look almost exactly alike. The only reason I can think up of to suggest that her pistol is a 9mm is that she survived getting shot with it by Broadway.

Still, she needs bigger guns. I freakin' LOVE the idea of elisa in powered armor, and that would really start evening up the odds in the fights she gets into. At the least, Xanatos should provide her with a suit like the one he wore in... "Eye Of The Beholder", I think it was, where he had a suit hidden under his trenchcoat. Barring that, she should invest in a good shotgun, possibly a SPAS-12, or a light auto such as a MP-5K. Those would easily put her back in the running as nasty fighter.

How do we bring about these upgrades? Try this!

Elisa was almost killed by Madoc, and had to be saved by Demona. After her recovery, she becomes fed up with always being left behind in battles, and goes on a self-defense rip.
The ghost of Gunjack Valentine
Saturday, June 12, 1999 04:43:23 PM
IP: spider-tl072.proxy.aol.com

*A ghostly hologram of Gunjack Valentine enters the room*

Just a few quick notes here, folks...

Jackel - If you're reading this, please don't leave. This whole mess ain't worth the loss of a Clan member, so let's just all chill out. And no, I for one don't think that you just cause trouble all the time. I was here when this all started and I STILL don't understand what kicked this mess off, but it ain't worth people leaving.

On the other hand, I don't want to see Aris walk either. The idea here is for everybody to just get along, not for people to worry about pride or winning a flamewar.

On a lighter note, I was wondering if anybody here can give me a hand. I'm about to start a GURPS campaign with my friend Ben, and we've decided to set it in Gargoyles 2158. He's playing a covert agent for a rich corperate official(think Xanatos' Bruno or Fleance and Banquo for MacBeth). Anyway, any fun ideas for stuff to put him through?

More comments as time permits

The ghost of Gunjack Valentine
Dallas
Saturday, June 12, 1999 03:45:48 PM
IP: spider-tl054.proxy.aol.com

SJ> Well Said! I am neither angered nor alienated. I was trying to think of something like that last night (this morning?) but after all my other comments, my brain was shot and it wasn't coming out right.

JackaL> Let me change my plea of "come back soon" to match SJ's "Don't leave at all". (you can keep the fish)
Zath
Saturday, June 12, 1999 01:40:48 PM
IP: ns11-17.viptx.net

Here's where I probably anger and alienate most of you.

I couldn't read the entire CR last night because, whatever problem was afflicting it, I could only load about 3 percent of it. What I did see, however, was Jackal banning himself.

I read his post, and I got PISSED. Because, you see, I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel that the whole thing was unnecessary. This whole "controversy" did not start because JackaL made some dark, evil comment about Brooklyn being gay. He made a silly little post about questioning Brooklyn's sexuality--like a million of his other posts, which have been FAR more "controversial" and "extreme" in the past--but this thing only blew up when his message got confused, and one particular individual said something to him. You know who I'm talking about, and if I catch a lot of crap for saying this, so be it. We all know who the individual is, and unlike others, I myself do not see that person as an innocent victim. JackaL's whole original comment was nothing. It was harmless, just like all his other posts are harmless, even though some found it distasteful and that it borderlined on "R" rated. However, when you-know-who decided to say something, things hit the fan. JackaL was making one of his usually posts, being sort of silly, and this person took it seriously. And this BS began.

I'm not saying JackaL is innocent in all this. Yeah, he sort of fueled the fire. True, he didn't help himself much by repeatedly posting certain remarks. I'm just saying all this could have been avoided if a certain someone, who has a bad history with JackaL, who "can't win", had known not to get into something with him. Even when JackaL made another comment, they should have stopped right there and realized what could start, and they should have backed down before the fireworks began. No, Jack shouldn't have kept pushing the issue, but the way I see it, I didn't see the other party exactly drop it either.

Maybe I'm rambling. But what I see here is, a friend of mine feels that he has to leave because he can't get along with ONE individual. ONE individual who, way I see it, didn't do a whole lot to stop the situation from degenerating into a shouting match. Everyone in this room can hate me for coming to Jack's defense, I don't care. Flame me, do whatever you want. I think, in some ways, he got the raw end of the deal. If you disagree, fine. That's how I feel.

I'm gonna say what others aren't seeming to do: JACKAL, DON'T GO. If you want, lay low for a while, keep it low key. But don't leave because of ONE individual. I for one would hate to see you go because of this whole entire BS. I'm asking you NOT TO LEAVE. Don't fall on your sword over this crap.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Saturday, June 12, 1999 01:28:35 PM
IP: 207-172-120-111.s111.tnt14.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

Kitainia > <> I'm a fan of Mr. Sinister myself. <> The part about killing Cable or the part about the character development? Killing Cable is certainly possible since Marvel specializes in bringing dead characters back. Character development is another thing entirely. Having the X-Men wallow in grief and self-pity is not the same as character development.
Kitainia > <<It made me wonder if dragons got the more creative powers while fay got the more destructive ones.>> and Wilek <<That made me wonder if dragons and Fey were once the same species, and somehow separated into these two very different aspects.>> Very interesting comments. Do dragons have the power to give life - real life and not some semblance of it - where there was none before? I'd like to know more about that human who was fighting on the side of the dragons against the fey in the First Great War. Was the human repaying a debt to a dragon? Why are dragons usually viewed as benevolent in China yet evil in many other parts of the world? Is it merely because of their appearance or ?

Goliath's Age:
Here's a list of character ages that I copied out of Ask Greg. By "biological age" I think it means how aged the character is, keeping in mind that gargoyles age at half the rate that humans do. Goliath is as aged as a 29 year old human, which is as aged as a 58 year old gargoyle would be. Add 1000 to that for the 1000 years Goliath was under the sleep spell and not aging at all. So in 1999, Goliath would be 1061 and the equivalent of a human 30 � years old (as Wilek said).
*****
Ages in parenthesis represent biological age when that age differs from the character's chronological age.
As of December 31, 1996:
Hudson - 1118 (59)
Goliath - 1058 (29)
Trio - 1038 (19)
Angela - 952 (21)
Bronx - 1018 (9)
Demona - 1058 (35)
Coldstone - 1058 (28)
Macbeth - 991 (52)
Xanatos - 41
Fox - 30
Alexander - not yet 1
Elisa - 28
Talon, Dracon - 26
Beth - 21
Katharine - 1020 (62)
Tom - 1010 (52)
Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca - 952 (20)

In 994, Demona and Goliath were both 56 years old chronologically (twenty- eight biologically, i.e. in human terms.) In 1020, Demona was 82 (or 41) and aging prematurely because of the extremely difficult life she was leading. In 1040, Demona was 102 (51) until she recieved Macbeth's youth in magical trade. He was 35 (35) so she became 102 (35). He became 35 (51). They've been stuck at those (biological) ages ever since.

*****
Paul Allen Nathans> <<As for power level, Oberon got nailed, in armor, with a harpoon. Madoc got smashed in the head with a mace. Both are iron. Oberon was nailed in the midsection or slightly below, meaning the abdemon, but I think it was the midsection. Madoc was bashed in the head. There's no 'power level'. What does this tell you people!?>> Umm... That Oberon and Madoc have brains but no guts? I'm not sure I get your point.

Jenniren
Saturday, June 12, 1999 10:36:18 AM
IP: user-2ivf54u.dialup.mindspring.com

Now I finally have time for a Post. I've been busy playing LUNAR: SILVER STAR STORY: COMPLETE. Doug, I'd get that Game, if you don't already have it. I've been waiting three Years for it, and now I finally have it. Its no XENOGEARS, but its still incredible.

Sevarius Junior-Before I get to the THE GARGOYLES SAGA Commentary I have to put in a word here. Okay, this may turn into one of my 10K commentaries or it may not, it depends on whether or not I feel like using my time this way. Oh, and don't ask me about my life, people, please. I don't 'find time' to type a lot, I'm able to type 11 Pages in as little as 2 Hours sometimes, if inspired enough, and I know where I'm going.
Anyways, your 'basic desires' about love, peace, and companionship is what I'm going to comment on. Nearly everyone wants somebody to care about them, but placing this under 'desire' makes me think you mean 'desire as in 'for a toy' or for something petty. Wanting to be cared about is completely different than desiring something. Please do not insult any aspect of life in any reason. Wanting to be cared about grows out of having family and all that. Or wanting to be loved can come from elsewhere, but it only comes from the individual. Don't ever say 'base desire'. Humans choose how to live themselves. There's no 'base desire' at all for anything. Nothing but our own choices can control us, and those choices are fully under our control. There are no exceptions. Companionship I presume means friendship. Again, same thing. Peace!? Uh, there are waaaaay too many people who seem to think violence is right. Or there are idealists who picture themselves as heroes or heroines who seem to want to deal with all the world's problems. The latter is mostly story-related, but I disapprove of those dreams. I can't answer beyond that, because I don't have any answers yet. You should try to help, but beyond that, I dunno'. I'll touch back on this one because its patrially related to further commentary.

THE GARGOYLES SAGA: AFTERMATH, PART I: Neat Episode, although not as great as THE DARKEST HOUR. Someone needs to watch their 'End Tags', though, for lack of a better term.
The Othello/Desdemona character development was great, obviously, but that's not first because its best. I'm not sure there was a best; the whole story was great. I'm mentioning it first because it seems to be the most widely debated.
Titania saved them as thanks. She helped Elisa (thanks to Jenniren, I believe, for pointing out why she couldn't save her 'directly', to spare me that time of having to say so, which I kept forgetting, and would've eventually mentioned) indirectly, and helped the others directly.
As for how, they were revived through technology, so Titania could repair them from their fragments. Attempt that with a lifeless gargoyle and you'd fail. That's obvious.
Owen is gone. Puck is gone. I thought he 'might' have been sharing Alex's mind briefly in THE DARKEST HOUR, PART II, or in the stuffed animal, but I dismissed it. Alex is simply talking to the fuzzy. I hope.
We've had too many deus ex machinas. As much as I regret someone having perished, let's be realistic here.
Matthew and Sara-Handled well. If Martin Hacker was still following them around, though, he might've had a bit of a problem. Well, then, who knows what the Illuminati can do, but I think he'd use normal means.
Angela and Demona-That one scene with Angela flying that was around four paragraphs long could've been done better. The rest was great, as was Demona's turmoil.
Lexington-Great there too.

Now, regarding a few other topics.

Here's one I forgot from last week.
Madoc doesn't control the Unseelie Court, they heard his cry because it was psychic. That alone could be distracting, and in some cases, demoralizing.
As for power level, Oberon got nailed, in armor, with a harpoon. Madoc got smashed in the head with a mace. Both are iron. Oberon was nailed in the midsection or slightly below, meaning the abdemon, but I think it was the midsection. Madoc was bashed in the head.
There's no 'power level'.
What does this tell you people!?

Elisa-Okay, here we go.
Elisa would not, read, would not, be happy as a gargoyle. Furthermore, the only way Elisa and Goliath's relationship could go further is if they became mates/married, whatever term you wish to use. That might happen, but that is so far off from the center of her character that its unimportant. Elisa has been the first, and the closest, friend to the Manhattan Clan. Her trust in them, and her devotion, and friendship to them, as well as her devotion to her friends, devotion to protect, and, her devotion to her family, is her Character. Anything else besides is what developed from that Character. She has been developing steadily outside of her relationship with Goliath, which is rather peripheral to her Character. And to her, if you count those other factors. This should be read by all those people who consume her Character with romance with Goliath.
I remember skimming a Fanfiction waaay back and arriving at something where Elisa was under someone's control and wouldn't shoot Goliath because she loved him, but couldn't stop herself from shooting herself. Hah!
She regards her life as important, and is very good at differentiating between living, and not. Fighting against control to save her life would be as easy as not shooting Goliath. Oh, and if she had, they could've dodged. They didn't even try to stop her from shooting Goliath, which, thankfully, she didn't. She's sacrificed herself numerous times to aid others, but to save her own life, when others are in danger, would be just as easy.
It wouldn't been more plausible if she hadn't shot Goliath because she wouldn't hurt any of her friends.
The only place I see wavering with reason is choosing between what's more important. The life of everyone, or her friends. As LETHE demonstrates.
Speaking of said argument, I have commentary on a comment Sara made in THE LONGEST DAY. 6,000,000 to 0 for apologies, as male, to female!? Even if that was true, and if she did 'know all', Elisa was the one doing the apologizing over the Dracon argument. I know it was a joke, but I am going to defend apologies anyway.
Back to topic.
Elisa is not the type of person who would give up everything for love. To help any of her friends, yes. Point is, if both Goliath, and one of the other Clan were being fired on, she'd be just as likely, if she had equal distance in time, to throw herself in front of either one. It'd be a hard choice, but that's because she could only try to save one, and hope the other could dodge.
She is much more than a 'love interest for Goliath', and calling her only that I take as an insult to her.

Fighting, Winning, Good, and Evil-GARGOYLES has never been about those four in a 'versus' sense, to whoever mentioned the 'not able to win'. Like XENOGEARS, the theme of GARGOYLES is life.

'Dancing the Colors'-I believe I stated that this isn't the most accurate way to portray Demona. She's been hurt, and she still doesn't really have a reason to live. Even in DARK AGES, that seemed to be lacking. Everything possible for her to enjoy was taken away. She was emotionally unstable from even in DARK AGES.

XENOGEARS: Yesssss!!!!! Another XENOGEARS fan!!!!! Okay, Kitania, what's your favorite parts, and/or least favorite parts? Also, since I haven't settled this part with you, yet, as this is obviously my first commentary to you, what did you feel the theme of XENOGEARS was?
That brings up another point.
Doug, what did you originally think the theme of XENOGEARS was?
Also, by the crossover idea, I didn't mean placed in the Season. I meant however you wanted to do so with it.
Back to LUNAR: SILVER STAR STORY: COMPLETE.

"Duty, or love?"-Ghaleon
LUNAR: SILVER STAR STORY: COMPLETE
Paul Allen Nathans - [LacanPanother@worldnet.att.net]
Saturday, June 12, 1999 09:30:26 AM
IP: 34.morristown-03-04rs.nj.dial-access.att.net

JackaL> While some of your posts were a little on the disturbing side, they were always interesting. You will be missed. Here, have a snack for the road. **Zath gives JackaL a clear plastic bag containing water and a small orange fish.** Come back soon.

***** WARNING: CONTROVERSIAL CONTENT *****
I know I'm a bit late with this, but everyone else shared their views and I felt I should do the same, so I'm tossing in my $0.02. If you're sick of it all by now, feel free to skip this. I have no intention of starting another flame war. I just wish to share what's in my head at the moment.

First off, I personally don't see anything wrong with homosexuals or homosexual acts as long as all the participants are consenting adults. So long as no one is forcing anything on anyone else, what they do together is fine and dandy. In response to whoever it was who said that homosexuality was unnatural because it did not contribute to the continuation of the species, I would like to point out that there are many things about humans that do not focus on passing genes. I'm not just talking about watching sunsets (an example someone used) either. Just look at post-menopausal women. They can't have children, but they aren't unnatural and they still have much to share with society because, unlike many species, humans can pass on more to the next generation than just our genes. They can pass on knowledge, something that at times can be far more important than a mere double helix or two. And anyway, as other people pointed out, the human race seems to be doing far more procreating than is necessary at the moment.

As far as interspecies romance is concerned, I must say that I consider gargoyles to be animals. Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me also add that I think humans are animals too. Just because we have opposable thumbs and use tools doesn't make us any better than the rest of the monkeys on this planet. If you don't like that reason, think of this: gargoyles are neither vegetables nor minerals (at least not at night) so that doesn't leave very much else for them to be other than animals, but the same thing goes for humans so neither species is any better than the other in that respect. On the topic of humans and gargoyles actually getting "intimate" with each other, it all goes back to my statement about consenting adults. Sure, it's kinky, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it bestiality (that word makes me think of rednecks raping farm animals). If they can make the parts fit together and everyone is happy, then good for them, just don't wake me up with the bellowing and moaning.

That's pretty much all I can think of to say on those subjects at the moment. If I've offended some people, tough, just file me and my opposing view point under the category of "diversity" and thank me for spicing up your life. If everyone thought the same way, this place wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun as it is.
***** END CONTROVERSIAL TYPE STUFF *****

Wilek> <<made me wonder if dragons and Fey were once the same species, and somehow separated into these two very different aspects>> You mean the Dragons and the Fey are like the Mystics and the Skeksis? Hmmm... makes me wonder what gargoyle muppets would look like : )

***** DC ABUSE *****
Zath whistles and T Horror enters carrying a thoroughly bound but struggling Dis Connect. A convenient hook lowers itself from the CR ceiling and T Horror attaches it to the obnoxious hacker's feet. The blond clone releases DC and he swings like a pendulum as the hook raises slightly, bringing him up to Zath's eye level. DC tries to say something, but TH grabs his head and forces the man's jaws open, allowing Zath to snap a mousetrap on his tongue (can you tell I just saw Payback >: )?). DC squeals in pain and then his eyes go wide in terror as he sees what else TH was carrying, a pair of whips. T Horror gives one of the whips to Zath and the pair take turns working over DC. "This is for making me have to try so many times to get a connection that actually works!" *Whack* "This is for making the room so slow today!" *snap* "This is for making the problem twice as bad by having my server be such a piece of junk!" *Crack* etc... Eventually, after several hours. the two get tired. Suddenly Zath gets an idea and shouts "Anyone else want a turn at it?" There is loud cheering from around the room and a long line forms. DC whimpers as Zath and T Horror hand over their whips to the first pair of CR dwellers in the line, who step up and begin to take their own revenge.
*****END DC ABUSE. (Who knows, maybe if we smack him enough he'll break open and candy will fall out.)*****

Wow, it's almost dawn. I guess I should log off and head to my roosting perch. Hopefully, next time I come through here, everyone (myself included) will be in a better mood. Bye all.
Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Saturday, June 12, 1999 06:17:05 AM
IP: ns7-08.viptx.net

Only thirteen days until the Gathering 99.

You know people, everyone's sympathy is with 'poor' misunderstood Jackel. Well, what about Aris. All he did was use Jackel's name to get his attention to say ok we're quits. He got a major flame for it. I just hope this doesn't drive Aris away as well.

People, we are family. We have people here from every corner of the globe. Many of them have very different points of view. We have people from Canada, England, Austrailia, New Zealand, Germany, Greece, Poland, islands in the Carriabean, and other places I probably have missed. The point?? If we can't be civil with one another, if one word can set off a tirade of bad language (and that's my pet hate) what's the use of coming here?

When the Littleton crisis hit, when Kosovo hit, when we loss members of our family for timeout, family (their family) misunderstandings, sickness, weddings and the like, we put together. We discuss. We argue. We share ourselves. Most of all we act civil towards one another even if our point of view is so different we may not be on the same planet. Mostly, we RESPECT OUR DIFFERENCES.

Aris and Jackel will never be friends. They have mutually agreed to stay in neutral corners. But please don't leave us. Either of you.

Jackel we are concerned about you. We need to know if things are rough. We listen. We don't always agree with what you say, but having someplace to go where you can shout at the wind, helps keep the hurt from festering.

Ok people remember. Be civil. Repect each other. And above all, remembe WE ARE CLAN.

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Saturday, June 12, 1999 05:17:03 AM
IP: proxy-393.public.rwc.webtv.net

The Aris/Jackal thing> I hope I'm wrong, but I'm starting to think that I set this whole thing off by telling Jackal about Matthew Watson's fanfic, and for this I humbly apologize. <hands Deuce and Robby a set of matching light antitank weapons with the CR logo on them> <sigh> Fire at will...

David G.> <<A boken (which I may have spelled wrong) is a wooden Katana. Sata probably has a spare one somewhere.>> Ah. Hm, that sounds like something that's used in kendo training...

Star Wars personality test> Apparently I'm similar to the older Obi-Wan Kenobi. Can't really see it, but then I wasn't fully awake when I took the test...

**Bit of controversy**

Christine> <<a reference to a gargoyle _choosing_ homosexuality. As I understand it, it's not a _choice_; nobody deliberately sets out to be one way or t'other or both or neither. Similarly, people can't really be 'turned' or 'cured.'>> Actually...no offense to you or anyone else, but...I've always thought that one chooses one's sexuality, whether consciously or not, and the fact that a number of homosexuals have indeed been 'turned'--by their own decision; it's pretty much impossible to force the matter--would seem to bear this out. Heh, if it were genetic, as has been suggested, the whole issue could be solved with a simple airborne retrovirus. >:)

**End**

Glimmer> Ack...that town sounds *awful*. Like something right out of a Stephen King novel...

Bronx Wyvern> <<How old is Goliath?>> Um...I'm not sure, actually. Not counting his 1000 years in stone sleep, I always thought he was chronologically in his late 60s (biological late 30s). I'm probably wrong though...

Argent> <<Thanks for the technical info!>> You're quite welcome. ^_^ <<The point of 'catching them all'? If you get right down to it: bragging rights.>> Really? Hm. I had no idea; I've never really understood the concept of bragging rights...

Blue Caeru> <> Me neither. I thought it was just my ISP acting up (as usual), but a lot of other ppl seem to be having the same problem. Fortunately, it loads my previous post, so I can respond to everything since then. :)

Coyote> <<Hyena manages to smuggle herself into Rose's Connecticut private high school as a substitute teacher, in order to fulfill a contract on Rose's life. Thanks, dude!!!>> Kewl! And you're welcome. :)

Toku Kaioto> That...was so...brilliant... <snif>

Gunjack Valentine> Forgot last time: Goodbye, and I hope you can get back soon. :)

Jackal> Leaving, huh. Well, Kaioto said it better than I ever could, but...you're a brave individual. Goodbye.

Kitainia> <<Two guys kept holding tapes up to the anti-theft system, not stealing them but instead triggering the system with the tapes and then as soon as it stopped beeping triggering it again.>> This kind of person is why the powers that be invented bladed weapons. <<Pistoff, you're not the only writer who's often afraid his work will suck as he or she writes it and yet keeps at it anyway, trusting himself or herself to do a good job. Doug's that way, too.>> So I see I'm not alone. I was sure my first two stories would bomb, but ppl seemed to like them. Now all I'm worried about is being unable to carry out my current plans, due to my unpredictable writing schedule. :) <<It made me wonder if dragons got the more creative powers while fay got the more destructive ones.>> That made me wonder if dragons and Fey were once the same species, and somehow separated into these two very different aspects. Bizarre, I know, but it's late. :)
Wilek Nereus
Saturday, June 12, 1999 03:20:11 AM
IP: tnt-1-91-56k.portsmouth.zoomnet.net

**RP HERE**

In the Phalanx-infested city of Giza, Major Charleston (Zale's aide) and Cameron Hodge are watching over several Phalanx drones as they install a TechnoNuke generator dish and control console on the Great Pyramid's top. "Now remember," Charleston tells Hodge as he hands him a remote control for the sound-weapon. "Your new device is to be used only if enemy Borg attack you. If they don't, it will be useless. You got that?" "I do," Hodge says, taking the control and assimilating it into his skin. "Does Thailog have any further instructions for us?" "Only that your operation proceed on schedule. How close are you to launching the assimilation-ICBMs?" "We have just finished mass production of the virus. Even as we speak, it is being loaded into the nine missiles that will target each of Earth's continets and the two major oceans. Our bombs can each assimilate twenty thousand square miles, and when deployed simultaneously with Guod's assimilation of the Earth's core and lower surface layers, the whole planet should be under our control in a matter of hours." "Excellent. I trust they will be launched on schedule. I'll leave things in your hands and your master's now, Hodge, I need to get back to the secret base."

The display changes to the Onslaught's trailer at Crown Point, where Doug and Kitainia are talking with Ruth. "Listen," Ruth is saying to them, "I was a fool to want to join you and come save the world like this. In my first fight with one of their elite soldiers, I easily got knocked out. I don't know how much use I'm going to be to you guys. I probably shouldn't be here anyway, I am only fourteen." "Listen, Ruth," Doug says, "we understand your feelings, but we want you to know that we still trust and believe in you. We also need all the help we can get here, and if you want to stay, that'd be great. If you want to leave, though, we understand." Ruth nods. "Thank you. I think I'm going to stay for your battle with the Borg. I'm a good shot with a hunting rifle, maybe if I stay out of the action I can take down a few of them without getting myself killed. After it's over, I'll leave." "But I thought you didn't have anywhere to go," says Kitainia. "I lied," Ruth says. "My mother lives in Chicago, she and my dad divorced when I was five. I just wanted to come with you more than I wanted to go to her. I'm sorry." "It's okay," Doug replies. "We understand. Just try to stay out of trouble in our coming battle, okay? We want you to go back to your mother alive." Ruth nods. "I'll do my best." Kitainia smiles and turns to face the CR.

**PAUSE RP**

Hi everyone. My first annoying customer incident occured at Blockbuster today. Two guys kept holding tapes up to the anti-theft system, not stealing them but instead triggering the system with the tapes and then as soon as it stopped beeping triggering it again. They did this when myself and the other employees were busy with a long line of customers, so we could not respond to their antics. Finally Martha, the night manager, had to come out and yell at them. The jerks engaged her in a vigorous shouting match, angry at Martha for spoiling their fun. Eventually she took the tapes from them and loudly ordered them to get out of the store and never come back. They left. Throughout all this, myself and the other employees kept manning our counters and helping people check out, trying to ignore the episode. <sighs> Hope those guys never come back again.

In other news, Doug and I saw Austin Powers 2 this afternoon. Here's our review of it:

**BEGIN SPOILERS FOR THE NEW AUSTIN POWERS FILM**

This movie wasn't as good as we expected it to be. It got a 5/10 from us, sideways thumbs. It was in many ways better than the first movie, but also in many ways worse. The bad parts- it had a more convoulted and cliched plot, there were still WAY too many unnecessarily obscene sex jokes, Dr. Evil's two new henchmen were not interesting characters (Fat Bastard was stupid, cliched, and so disgusting he almost made me throw up a couple times; and Mini-Me was not only stupid and annoying but also terribly cliched and not funny at all), Dr. Evil had fewer memorable lines and unfortunately became the victim of two many stupid jokes (a great comic villain like him does not deserve this, IMO), and Austin was not an admirable hero in this movie thanks to his ego growing larger as the film progressed and thus in many ways totally ruining the plot.

Those were the bad points. There were good things about the film, too, however. One, Felicity Shagwell was a good heroine whose character was developed well in most of her scenes (she was also rather cliched, but in a good way). Heather Graham pulled off an excellent preformance. My only complaint about Felicity was that she was a little too victimized by the script (did they have to make her sleep with that obscene obese jerk?). Another good part of the movie was the characters of Scott Evil, Frau Farbisia (sp?), and Number 2. These characters were all shown and developed well, the actors playing them pulled off great preformances, and their presence actually made parts of the movie enjoyable and interesting. I hope they team up to kill off Dr. Evil and Mini-me in the next movie, thus becoming Austin's major nemeses. No way he'll stand a chance against their efficency and intelligence (and since Austin is little more than an annoying egotistical pervert IMO, I kinda want the bad guys to beat him). Also, some of the movie's jokes were funny (emphasis on some), like the Jerry Springer bits. So it had its ups and downs. I recommend that people should go see it, but go in prepared to be disgusted and bewildered (were all the music video bits really necessary, how could anyone possibly think some of the scenes (eg, the penis jokes) were funny?) several times as you watch.

BTW, Doug and I know the film was supposed to be a spoof of spy movies and little more than that. We know it wasn't supposed to have an interesting plot or characters, we know it was supposed to be slightly offbeat humorous entertainment and little more. But we still evaluated it in the same way we would any other movie, no matter what it was or was not supposed to do.

**END SPOILERS FOR AUSTIN POWERS 2**

X-Men Characters: I too dislike Cable and typically root for Apocalypse in their battles. (Side note- I was always hoping Apocalypse would kill Cable, making Scott and/or Jean really pissed off, thus giving them some character development. Looks like that will never happen. Oh well.) Look at Doug and Robby's earlier remarks about their characters for my feelings on Scott and Jean. I too used to like them, but now I don't because they've gotten so cliched and stale.

SJ: I agree with you about the President. He needs more intelligent people for political advisers, people more dedicated to serving America and not helping their boss stay in Washington and thus staying in power themselves. Come to think of it, the entire government of our country needs more people like this. We need to stop letting stupid censorship anti-everything-except-what-we-think-is-good people and political action groups run the country, and put power back in the hands of the smart caring people where it belongs. Of course, with the way our country has unfortunately become, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon, if it does at all. <sighs>

Thanks for the commentary on the MTV movie awards. Too bad I was unable to watch them, that Jim Carrey speech and the Alyson Hannigan tongue-kiss sound like they were interesting to see. :) I regret that James VanDerBeek and Katie Holmes got undeserved awards, though. Oh well, can't change it now. You may be interested to know that tonight Doug and I made some suitable plans for VanDerBeek in the RP. You're really going to be entertained by them when they come out. <Muhahahhahaha>

Coyote: You're welcome. Looking forward to reading WCC when the parts of it you've written come out.

Christine, Pistoff: Looking forward to reading your upcoming new stories, too. Oh, and Pistoff, you're not the only writer who's often afraid his work will suck as he or she writes it and yet keeps at it anyway, trusting himself or herself to do a good job. Doug's that way, too. I often have to help him keep some optimism about his work, in addition to my other contributions. :)

SOROW: Sorry to hear you had a less-than-enjoyable vacation, but glad you survived it. Welcome back!

Valentine: Will miss you. Hope you have fun at camp and with your friend.

Deuce: Hope you start feeling better very soon. Let us know if there's anything we can do to help speed your recovery. :) Good luck on your finals, too.

StarWarsTest: Doug and I are both most like Obi-Wan. Guess that's a good thing. <grin>

David G: Good character sketch of Elisa. Hope to see the rest of your magic essay (particularly the section on Artifacts) soon.

Garg Equipment: I agree that they need more than they have. Radio headsets would be a good thing, also some armor that is easy to move in and yet very protective against bullets and other weapons used by the modern crook. I know that Brooklyn already has such armor, and his family probably does too (after all, they've been to the future, they probably got some futuristic light and yet very protective layers of armor woven into their clothes), but the rest of the clan should also get some if they can.

Mary: Congrats on completing your sophomore year of high school.

Fay Power: Good comments about this, Kaioto and SJ. Your talks gave me a creativity demon, btw. I thought about how in Sun and the Serpent Apep mentioned that dragon magic can't take life, just as fay magic can't give it. It made me wonder if dragons got the more creative powers while fay got the more destructive ones. If this is true, it's interesting that so many of the fay are seen by humans as creators and gods of some kind, whereas dragons are mostly seen as the most destructive beings in existence. Wonder if the more visible dragons outside of China all used their powers in the wrong way.

Taleweaver: I think you have, and written some damn good stories about it, too. :)

<Moment of silence for Deforest Kelly, one of my father's longtime idols. I never watched the original Star Trek show, but as the daughter of a Trekkie, I still feel regret at his death.>

Jackal: You will be missed, thanks for all the entertainment you've provided during your time here. I agree with Kaioto that your departure was a noble act, my blessings go with you. Even if you don't post in here, I hope you will still lurk around and read our words.

That's all for tonight. Later ppl!

**BEGIN SECOND HALF OF RP**

Kitainia turns back to Doug as Ruth walks off to do some practice with her rifle. "You really think we can win this one?" she asks. "I saw that listing of Guod's possible forces, and their numbers and apparent high level of armament and skills make me very concerned." "We're going to win, Kit," Doug assures her. "We have to. We're the good guys here, we need to save the world. Besides, we've beat Guod and his Borg before, we can do it again." "We've never fought them in such high numbers, though." "Don't worry. We have Wilek's forces and all our friends backing us up, plus the best possible weapons and supplies from DumlaoX. I think, that baring anything unexpected such as a Traveler interference or some secret weapon that Thailog has and we don't know about yet, we have a very good chance." "I hope you're right," Kitainia says. She leans back and begins field-stripping her laser rifle, awaiting the time when Agent Rho's recon patrols will locate Guod's army and their battle can begin.

Meanwhile, in the skies over Chicago, the Star Destroyers sent out by Admiral Nipon to attack the city come to a stop. "We're in a holding pattern now, sir," one of the lead ship's officers says to the fleet commander Captain Teruda. "Ready to attack as soon as we recieve okay." "Very well," Teruda says. "What do you think, Dahak? Should we attack now?" "Yes," the evil fay says. "Begin by destroying their factories and railroad depots, then move on to the militia installations, the other industrial and transport areas, and finally the residential and commercial districts. Engage any Avatar of Ganon forces as soon as they appear. Our mission is one of distraction as well as destruction, Captain, I hope you will remember that." Neruda nods, realizing Dahak knows of his reputation for having a very bad temper. "I will do my best," he says. "Weapons Officers, you may begin the bombardment as soon as you are ready. Decloak and fire at will." The ships drop their invisibility shields and begin shelling Chicago with powerful laser blasts as the screen goes blank.

**TO BE CONTINUED, END RP**
Kitainia - [dierdre34@yahoo.com]
Saturday, June 12, 1999 02:46:49 AM
IP: pool-207-205-237-147.dlls.grid.net

Aaron & Durid> Touring Dallas? Hmmmm... let me think about that one? (very long pause) Okay, I got it! My house! Come tour my house, even though I won't be in town (obviously, cause then I'd be with you guys!) I'm sure my parents wouldn't charge too much ;)

ATTENTION G99 GOERS
If anyone has thought about eating at the famous "rotating restaurant" (The Antares) in Dallas, the prices are lower than the average restaurant so try it! I recommend the Triple Chocolate Truffle Cheesecake (even though I got sick that night)!

I finally saw A Midsummer's Night Dream and I thought it was great! But it was kinda sad watching all the familiar characters and we still don't know what really happened to Puck...
SOROW
Saturday, June 12, 1999 01:43:27 AM
IP: usr12-dialup246.mix1.irving.cw.net

That was probably one of the most noble, if foolish, things I've ever scene online ... Still, it was something I find I could easily believe JackaL doing strangely enough. He wasn't running away, I'll swear to that. He was leaving because he was putting you and this chat room ahead of himself. He left because he is the consumate artist, and refused to be the cause of destroying something beautiful. He was a man who lived through conflict, and had a fascination with death that stemmed perhaps from the only source of peace he could ever see. And yet, in a world where he's been so emersed so deeply in pain, darkness, and selfishness, at a time where he'd been hurt, persecuted, and likely to be prosecuted, JackaL was still able to see pain his own emotions and selfishness were causing. He wrenched himself away from something that brought him such joy to try and give us the simplest and most precious gift of peace.

In the end, this was perhaps indeed heroic.

To my friend, if you feel you must go, my blessings go with you.
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 11:15:42 PM
IP: 1cust224.tnt1.brockton.ma.da.uu.net

Last Thing to Say-

I apologize for making you people mad, that wasn't my intention, I'm sorry. However, I will not apologize for what I've said. I firmly believe I had very right to go off like I did. Don't worry, this will never happen again, from me anyway. I'll just ban myself, it's clear I do nothing but cause trouble in here, and that's not what I want to do. I want you people to enjoy yourselves and that can't be done as long as I'm here. If I don't ban myself, someone else more than likely will. I mean, really, it's bound to happen sooner or later, we all know this...

Hugs to all...., ALL.
Goodbye.
JackaL
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:59:14 PM
IP: spider-wk054.proxy.aol.com

He's dead Jim.

A moment of silence for Deforest Kelly, aka Bones.

...

Robby
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:44:56 PM
IP: spider-we022.proxy.aol.com

Darn, just when I had extra time to post... DC gets in the way hmmm... *writes down a reminder to kill him later*
cya later
"Twidle Blane and Twidle Brain? If it's all the same I'll play your game!"
Bronx Wyvern - [Bronx4me@aol.com]
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:14:03 PM
IP: spider-tn041.proxy.aol.com

**enters the room, switches out the candles, uses flint and steel to light the new one, then sits back down in the big chair.**

Robby: Thanks. Yes, that was the right song. She sent me a line from it months ago ... it reminds me so much of her ...

**fixates sadly, whimpering, for a moment before continuing ...**

Caeru: Yes, I'm having the same problem. The CR times out on me about halfway down. And yes, yours was pretty good. Tom Cruise, eh? Coolies.

Wilek, re: Jackal and Hyena as teachers: Oh no! Look what you're making me do!! CREATIVITY SPAWN! AAAAAHHHHHH!!

**composes self**

Sorry. But this one's too twisted ... so twisted, in fact, that I might use it for a story ... picture this, if you will ... Hyena manages to smuggle herself into Rose's Connecticut private high school as a substitute teacher, in order to fulfill a contract on Rose's life. Thanks, dude!!!

Kyryn: Stars win! WOO HOOO!!

**composes self again**

Sorry ... but it's great! For the first time in five years, the Stanley Cup finals will *NOT* be a sweep! (Four consecutive years of sweeps: New Jersey, Colorado, and Detroit twice. :)
Okami would probably have absolutely *loved* my mother's '93 Escort. This miserable car ... I decided to be a good son and tune up her car for him. What I didn't count on was needing *AN HOUR* to change the #1 spark plug!! (The socket had too much suction on the plug, and my extender kept popping off when I tried to pull it out. On top of that, there was a power steering pressure hose in the way, and the plugs are so far recessed that you can't reinstall the plugs properly!!)
Of course, then again, I'm slowly starting to learn that every Big Three automaker has a particular annoyance in their engineering. Chrysler, it's shoehorning any import part they can get their grubby mitts on, even if it won't work, and forcing it to work. GM, it's that everything is incredibly heavy. And Ford ... with Ford, absolutely *nothing* can ever make sense with those people!!

Aaron: I'd be happy to take some pics, I'm bringing my new APS camera with me. :)

Ed: **bows deeply** Thank you so much!

**sigh** The room won't load completely. Oh well. That's all from me for tonight.

**returns to fixating, whimpering softly as he does**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Friday, June 11, 1999 09:50:57 PM
IP: modem67.i-is.com

Testing, testing... I can't seem to load the whole CR... :-P
Blue Caeru
Friday, June 11, 1999 09:32:50 PM
IP: spider-wc022.proxy.aol.com

What about Demona as the head of BS&P (Broadcast standards and practices?)

"I am Miss Conduct, head of netherworld broadcast standards and Practices or BS&P"
"BS&P, can you say that on TV?"~Beetlejuice
Shogun raptor
Friday, June 11, 1999 09:32:00 PM
IP: mia1-wc2.atlas.digex.net

Try this, Demona as a Drill Sergeant. No one dares flunk out of basic training in her platoon.
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Friday, June 11, 1999 08:41:39 PM
IP: fltg2-ppp42.fltg.net

(Walks in, wearing an outfit that's both fire and ice-proof.)
Yeesh, training a dual-type draco isn't the only thing this get-up's useful for!
ROBBY> Grrrrrrr, that stinks (I mean about DBZ season three, not your post concerning the room!). I suppose they ditched the guy who did Vegeta too, huh?
SOROW> Sorry your trip was so bad. But hey, at least it's over!
JADEN & DEUCE> Good luck on your tests!
WILEK> Thanks for the technical info! The point of 'catching
them all'? If you get right down to it: bragging rights.
GUNJACK VALENTINE> Bye!
AARON> [Demona as a fitness instructor] LMHO!

Situation in the CR> I wasn't here when this happened. All that's been needed to say has been. No comment.
Twins raised in the future> It makes sense. I was wondering how Brooklyn and Sata were going to manage protecting two eggs for ten years of time dancing, not to mention a couple of newborn hatchlings
Star Wars personality test> I'm Obi Wan Kenobi from the original trilogy. I guess it's pretty close. Anyone get Darth Vader or Boba Fett?

***RP!***
"We're dead."
(Argent is rummaging through her backpack, and hauls out the pokeballs again. She shoves them at SJ.)
"Well we _will_ be with that attitude." (Points at each sphere.) "Golem, Pikachu, Hypno, and Alakazam, remember?"
"What's the point?" (moans the scarecrow as one of the monkeys gets too close, and Kari 'persuades' it to back off.) "Even if they stood in a line to be killed we'd die of old age first!"
"Well then, isn't it nice of them to be in a large group instead?"
(Wilek's thinking out loud.) "Wait a minute, didn't we hear someone else fighting as we were com i-"
"Enough stalling, you only delay the inevitable." (Growls Eisner)"ATTACK!"
***STAY TUNED!***

Gotta Jet! Go Tribe!
(Four months 'till the new 'Dark Ages' eps)
Argent (aka Tribe Fanatic)
stable, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 08:24:44 PM
IP: dyn009-nas01.marietta.frognet.net

Okay people, this is getting out of hand now. I was hoping this would stop without intervention, but I don't want to see a flame war go any further than it has. Deny thats what is is, call it something else, but it is certainley a flame war from where I am sitting.

It has been brought to my attention via E-mail that the CR has gotten out of hand. Certain posts that contain people's "twisted fantasies" and such, major use of offensive language, and even when overly asteriked, it still counts. The room was originally meant to be PG only. It slowly evolved to PG-13 just due to the fact we're all mature enough to handle that, and sometimes, when a person is ticked off, foul language slips out. But, as more than one person has complained to me about this, and my own personal judgement sees things getting bad, I have realized this room is slowly slipping past the PG-13 rating and into R due to CONSISTENT use of foul language and thoughts. I was willing to let it go to PG-13, since everyone here is over 13 and generally mature. But, if this continues, some measures will be taken into place to tone things down. And I really don't want to have to ban anyone from the room.

Remember people, this is a room intended to reply to TGS stories first, and prvide a second home, a clan, on the side. I consider us all family here, but there *are* some things you can keep to yourself.

So, lets try this. No offensive language if you can help it. (Exceptions will be made on a by case and sevarity basis) Asteriking or symbols in place of foul language once or twice is okay on occassion, but when repeated, it is not tolerated. Sex is okay to talk about if vauge and not past the PG-13 rating maximum, but this room should stay PG when possible. I'm pretty leniant, so we may evolve back to PG-13 someday again.

And while generally warnings like these are addressed to the whole room in general, I am going to be specific since specific individuals are being the problem. Aris, if you had just ignored Jackal, this would probably be over by now. You should have been able to tell he was going to react wildly to anything you did. But I'm not blaming you, you were pretty calm about the matter. Jackal, this isn't the first time you've caused problems in here as you seem to have a difficult time with the concept of PG room, and your reaction to the word "okay" was entirely out of hand. Now, both of you, don't bring this up again, and consider this your first warning.

Thank you everyone else for your patience, and have a good day.
Robby the CR Co-Administrator
Friday, June 11, 1999 07:24:41 PM
IP: spider-wl064.proxy.aol.com

[SRS steps into the CR, driving a modified F-9SR "Firestarter" Battlemech. Dropping the crosshairs onto the flamers and flamees, he triggers the firing studs, and gouts of fire-retarding foam gush out from the 'Starter's former flamethrowers; hosing down the CR in a wave of cool white...]

Okay, I've been silent for a while, but in the words of Little Enis Burdette, "Daddy... this BS has got to stop!"

Let's have everyone cool their jets and settle back down, okay? Remember the topic of this room here? [Jerks a thumb up to the graphic at the top of the page] Let's drop the flames, put that subject in the round file (or File-13, if you will), and get back to the normal discussion here! I'm not taking sides here, thus I won't name names, but I will say that I'm sick and tired of the whole affair.

Drop it, move on, get on with it, get back to life in general. Got it? Good.

[Cranks back on the controls, moving the mech out of the CR] I'll park this outside, just in case...

Will talk to everyone later! Maintain and Check Six!
Stephen "Coldstone" Sobotka, Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Spokane, WA, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 07:10:04 PM
IP: 207.170.232.37

Oh and just one more thing....
JackaL> Please stop being so rude, this material your posting is unessesary and just annoying. Remember the golden rule now. Be kind please. This is all I ask and all what I will say.
Bronx Wyvern - [Bronx4me@aol.com]
Friday, June 11, 1999 06:37:30 PM
IP: spider-tr051.proxy.aol.com

Hey all! just a quick long over due posting- sadly it's short because I have finals to study for.

Q: How old is Goliath?

"Twidle Blane and Twidle Brain? If it's all the same I'll Play Your Game!"
Bronx Wyvern - [Bronx4me@aol.com]
Friday, June 11, 1999 06:34:49 PM
IP: spider-tr051.proxy.aol.com

**Glimmer comes in under the weight of a huge stack of papers and is fallowed by a hostein wearing a clerical collar with a weezing printer strapped to its back**

Holy cow! I think I just killed the printer!
Thanks for link JEB. Unfortunantly I decided to print the whole Ask Greg archive to read on my trip. Everything was fine until page 108. I can't get it to print anymore. Maybe later.
Greg Weisman makes the rest of us look sane. I suppose those creative genius types are naturally nuts.

Deuce> Feeling any better? Good luck on your finals. <<Where ya going?>> Love I'm flying to the moon and back. If you'll be, if you'll be my baby. Got a ticket to a world where we belong.....*a disembodied hand smacks Glimmer*
Sorry. My niece has been playing that CD all morning.
Actually I'm going to a big family reunion/Gradma's 75th birthday party in East Otto, New York. Every summer my mother and brother go back to her home town. 2/3 of the time my dad goes with them. I try to go with them 1/3 of the time. I'm scared of that town. I really am. I said before that it is only a four way stop town. The whole north-east side of town is the graveyard. The north-west side has a store that is smaller that a bait shop, a tiny post office, a bar, and a couple of houses(including Grandma's). The south-west side has a church, the fire house, another rinkadink store, and a couple of houses. That's pretty much everything.
Last time I was there a teenage boy chased his little brothers into the store. He was wearing an Elmer Fudd-style flannel hunting cap in the middle of summer. He kept yelling at the younger boys," Yous(with the 's') is so stupid. You ain't got enough money to buy them water ballons." I left the store at a high rate of speed.

Three weeks of hell on earth.

Pistoff> Does the woman at the high school actually think she can control the way you dress just because you delivered a pizza to them? You're right, she is a rotten b!tch.

Aaron> Pokemon/Highlander crossover- ROTFL

Christine> You'll be putting photos and commentary about Gathering '99 up on your website when you get back, right?

I was considering kidnapping my family as we drive through Texas and forceing them to head for Dallas. Too bad that it's illegal. :)

**Glimmer goes to see if she can bribe the printer into working again**
Glimmer
Boulder City
Friday, June 11, 1999 06:34:40 PM
IP: 136.gardena-05rs.ca-las-vegas-05rs.nv.dial-access.att.net

Greg> Thanx a lot for posting that quote from jms! I feel a lot better now, and am looking forward to the next ep. As long as the premier was the only one TNT had an influence on (those jackasses...) Crusade might turn around.

Saving Private Ryan> I just saw this yesterday, and I have to comment on one part... near the end, when the German slowly eases the knife into that guy's chest... Oh, God, that was disturbing. It still disturbs me, I can't get it out of my head. But anyway, to anyone who hasn't seen it yet, it's a little weak in the plot department (their mission to 'save Private Ryan' didn't have much drive, the movie could've just as easily been about a random squad of soldiers and it would've been much the same). The thing that makes this film memorable isn't saving Private Ryan, it's the battle sequences... particularly the one that comprises the last 40 minutes of the film.

Anywho, to move on...

Pirates of Silicon Valley> Has anyone seen previews for this on TNT? Brace yourselves, they've Jerry Springerized the story of Bill Gates and Apple guy (Jobe something or other, can't remember his name). From the looks of it, Bill Gates is put into a Hitlerish role, with Jobe as the Einstien (that can't be spelled right...), and Windows is the atom bomb. Of course, in this version Hitler gets the bomb, but I couldn't help but make that comparison.
Entity
Friday, June 11, 1999 06:14:55 PM
IP: ely-oh4-117.ix.netcom.com

Glad you liked it Ed. Unless you have road runner the background looks whack cause of the typings but I thank you for your support.
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 06:11:30 PM
IP: dt045nd6.san.rr.com

<<More Columbine-related idiocy?! I thought this would be over by now!>>
Sadly no..., that's the reason I'm facing trial, because of people freaking out about stupid sh*t.

Christine- I agree with you on the thing about guys asking guys out..., kinda weird, huh? I kinda liked being asked out, makes me feel all special inside! :o)
::Switches emotions::

��Say this is from Hell, cause it's certainly flamin��
You smart ass motherf***er. Why did you have to say something? By motherf***er I mean, you.., the NAMABLE ONE..., F***ing Aris! You know I not gonna f***in shut up, why are you pushing my buttons? You say you can't get out of the game.., NO ONE KEEPING YOU HERE, GET THE FU** OUT! IT'S A SIMPLE AS NOT ADDRESSING ME IN ANYWAY..., THAT'S HOW YOU GET OUT OF THE "GAME". YOU KEEP COMING UP AGAINST ME AND YOU WILL LOSE. YOU ARE PICKING THE WRONG TIME TO FU** WITH ME, BUDDY!! I'M STRESSED OUT ENUF AS IT IS... DON'T THINK I WON'T FIGHT THIS THUR TO THE END!!!!

There's nothing wrong with you saying, "Okay". Point is you addressed me. Don't f***in do that! I didn't tell you- you were looking for an oppurtunity to attack me..., I was mainly talking to Kaioto, why the f*** were you reading it if you have no interest in what I say?!? You contradictory motherf***er. I am sooo goddamn sorry there's nothing in my posts you can respond to.., you know what..., F*** you. That's all I know what to say.. F*** you, you contradictory ass, whiny little motherf***er. Go ahead and say something about the puppies, GO AHEAD!! Does it f***in matter now, go ahead and say something!

You're retarded ass wasn't around when I was talking about the gargoyles.., I'm old school! I'm one of the first's. Look in the f***ing Archives!! I've argued with no one..., this is me arguing, goddamn it! This is my defintion of arguing.., do you f***ing like? You better remember it, it doesn't happen often! Should I pose for a f***ing picture?! Yes, some people have had comments about my kids, and Yes, some people have questioned my sanity..., I was in a good mood when the comments were made about my kids, so I chose not to pursue it all that much. We're not talking about them any f***ing way! Aris, just shut the f*** up.

::JackaL leaves, fearing the police have been called::
JackaL
Friday, June 11, 1999 06:04:47 PM
IP: spider-to074.proxy.aol.com

Kyryn> Part of thinking on your feet is preparing for the next encounter, at the very least Elisa should have had an extra clip for her 9mm filled w/iron bullets.
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Friday, June 11, 1999 05:58:32 PM
IP: fltg2-ppp42.fltg.net

***SPOILERS FOR �AFTERMATH�***

I haven�t read any of the comments since they�re so far down the bottom of the screen and I�m too tired to read that far. I�m also pretty tired to make some real comments but a few points�

1. Why was it �part 1� when the ending seemed more fitting a stopping point than most other episodes, especially with the great big �the end� bit slapped on as a clue.

2. Alex was cute throughout. I was glad Titania acted, and it was cool to see the Cold duo given rewards for their efforts. It�s fitting. Still, I don�t think CS can smell; remember how he was yearning for the soft scent of Desdemona�s hair in that Puck/Cold Trio episode. (Sorry, I can�t even remember *that* now� it�s been a long week). Unless I�m missing something, which is highly probable.

3. A little bit of Emrys slipped apologetically into the episode under the cover of nightfall does not nearly suffice for a full episode explaining the results of the Unseelie War upon London, leave alone the other clans! Were I feeling more talkative I�d probably go into a full-blown rant here about neglecting characters, but since I�m not just consider you guys having a finger wagged at you. ;) Seriously though, it seems obvious that as long as the two series are one, Pendragon will always be getting the short end of the stick so I can�t wait until it splits off again. We might still not get many more episodes but Arthur can be dignified with his own consistency at least, not fitting in whenever Goliath fancies snoozing for an episode.

4. The Lex/Liz stuff was fun.

OK, that�s it. Sorry if this is unwittingly regurgitating stuff previously but that�s just the way it goes. Nice work overall.

8/10

***END SPOILERS***

OK, some replies to last week, which I can get to� (the end of it at least)

Coyote: That was you as well? You were on top writing form doing that! Spectacular job! ^_^ Look forward to seeing you write more next season :)

James Birdsong: Neat site, although the background makes it a little difficult to see. Unless it�s my slow connection not loading a background� ? I�m looking through it now and it has some interesting stuff.
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
London, England
Friday, June 11, 1999 05:58:16 PM
IP: p56-hawk-gui.tch.virgin.net

*** WARNING: TOPIC WON'T INTEREST THE MAJORITY ***

I don't know anymore. I'm just fed up. Murphy was right: No matter what I do I can't win, I can't propose a draw, and I can't even get out of the game.

If anyone's interested enough, these are my thoughts on the subject of Him Who Must Not Be Named. I hope that after this I'll be strong enough that I won't be pulled back into a flame war, no matter how much He Who Must Not Be Named tries to make me do so. That this will be indeed my final post on the subject.

As I said I'm fed up. Could someone please explain to me how my saying the simple word 'Okay' could result to two near-flames from the Unnameable One? I just don't get it. The last flame war occurred when I used the phrase 'goddamnit'. I suppose that the Unnameable One may be enough of a puritan to consider it an unbearable insult towards his sensibilities. But what's the harm with 'okay'?

He tells that it seems I was looking for an opportunity to attack him. Sheesh. If I was looking for such an opportunity wouldn't I have said something concerning the dead-puppies incident? About other controversial subjects? I never talked to him for a simple reason: For months he had never said something I could comment upon. He's spoken about his personal life which I don't give a damn about, about the shooting incident which I wouldn't talk about since I'm an outsider to American society, about Buffy that I can't comment upon (since I've not seen a single whole episode), about JarJar (which I don't know about since I've not seen The Phantom Menace).

I dare anyone (not the Unnameable One - I won't reply to his posts) to find me a post of His that I could reply to, a post concerning gargoyles, or mythology or some such thing. The first such post of his concerned Brooklyn's possible depiction as a homosexual. I replied to it.

Major mistake on my part. I realised that he didn't like me to talk to him ever again. I asked him concerning it, and when he confirmed it (without replying concerning where I offended him) I said ok. I thus became a bickering 10-year old.

I am just fed up. I certainly don't care about a telephone discussion. Since I can't say 'okay' I'm certain I can't say seven digits plus area codes, and certainly won't submit to a discussion with him. I don't like him, he hates me, and I'M JUST FED UP.

I don't know what's the big deal. He has argued with a lot of people. I am the only one who never said anything about his children. Who never told him to seek proffessional help. Perhaps I should have done so but when I am calm (or only mildly angry) I would never say such things - I find them truly offensive. If I had so insulted him, perhaps he would like me more.

Whatever. As I said this is hopefully the final post on the subject of the Unnameable One. He doesn't exist to me anymore. Life's too short for me to care about him. On second thought I shouldn't have even cared to write *this* but I have and I don't want it to go wasted.

I truly hope I don't exist for him either.

*** END MESSAGE ***
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Friday, June 11, 1999 05:09:54 PM
IP: athe530-h034.otenet.gr

I just have two questions today. 1- When I finally finish the essay on Magic, how do I submit it to the Grimorium? 2-Does anybody know where/how I could get tapes of all the Gargoyles cartoons in chronological order. If this involved copies somebody's personal collection, I'd pay for it. I'd also be willing to trade for copies of my fan sub anime collection. Highlights include all of Esclaflone, all of Marmalade boy, and (I think) all of Fushigi Yuugi (which I technically shouldn't copy, since it's been released as a really bad dub).
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 04:34:55 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

Aaron stggers into the CR, wearing his trenchcoat with no shirt. He bellyflops onto a couch, and immediatly regrets it.

I know, I know, I'm not nearly buff enough to pull off this look, but I'm avoiding shirts.

Remember two weeks ago, when I said getting a tattoo didn't hurt near as much as I'd thought? I will clarify that statement: Getting at tattoo *inked* doesn't hurt as much as I'd thought. Getting it colored in hurts rather more. Coloring bleeds. But, I did it, and I'm okay. The only good thing is it doesn't hurt near as much the second day. I'm rather pleased with the results though.

Actually, while I was having it done, I had a really bizarre creativity demon: What do you get when you combine "Gotta catch 'em all!" with "There can be only one!"? Either sword fights to the death to capture pokemon, or immortals having pokemon battles in the parking garage at Madison Square Garden.

Speaking of the pokemon, I'm told this morning's episode was the pokemon version of Yojimbo. Maybe there is more to this show then I thought. Onto replies.

I took the SW test and I'm..... Luke Skywalker? Must've been the bad haircut question.

Coyote> I would like to put up pics, but I don't have a scanner. Maybe someone at the Gathering could take some photos and scan them in. Also, I'd like for it to heal first. It'll look better then.

Durid> Extra touring in Dallas. Good idea. We should really check out Dealy Plaza while we're there.

Aaron lies back on the couch, and stares at the ceiling, humming "Waiting for the Miracle" by Leonard Cohen.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 02:22:48 PM
IP: ppp-6.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

Deuce>Good luck on your finals. Just remember this: Take deep breaths and try to remain calm and cool headed. Worked for me. :)
Mary Flanders
Friday, June 11, 1999 01:01:13 PM
IP: stk-ts4-h1-21-46.ispmodems.net

**Kyryn comes in and high-fives Coyote**

The Stars won! We aren't out of this yet!

On Elisa> I think that her strengths lie in her ability to think on her feet. I've often found some of the most interesting characters to be ordinary ones who are dropped into weird situations and have nothing but their wits and what's at hand to get out of things with.

Jackal> *g* I've seen far worse flame wars/controversial discussions on other boards. I love the image of a fork and an outlet.

Coyote> Okami once had a Subaru wagon that had 17 bolts holding the oil pan on! He said that he always had the image of some Japanese guy madly drilling holes and saying, "This is our revenge. It will drive them nuts!"

**Kyryn takes off out of the room**
Kyryn
Uvalde, TX
Friday, June 11, 1999 12:21:17 PM
IP: 168.37.239.86

~~ A little more on the controversy ~~

I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't laugh, but I can't help but find it funny how, after thousands of years of women having to put up with getting hit on, made passes at, and enduring crude comments from guys, guys utterly wig out when another _guy_ does the same to them. Now, before anyone in here starts yelling defensively about how he personally never treated a woman like that, I'm not pointing any fingers. I just think it's funny. "Gays are okay as long as they don't hit on me" is really the same thing as "Men are okay as long as they don't hit on me," which really basically all comes down to "I don't want anyone to hit on me that I don't personally find desirable," and really, how the heck is the other person supposed to know unless they try? We don't wear signs.

One other thing -- someone, I forget who, made a reference to a gargoyle _choosing_ homosexuality. As I understand it, it's not a _choice_; nobody deliberately sets out to be one way or t'other or both or neither. Similarly, people can't really be 'turned' or 'cured.'

~~ Enough of that; I'm rambling and ranting ~~

Star Wars test > where is this? I missed it somehow.

Fork and outlet > LOL, that's great, gonna have to remember that one!!!

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Friday, June 11, 1999 11:36:23 AM
IP: 03-117.009.popsite.net

School's out for me! But I missed most of the topics this week. Darn!

As far as Elisa> Don't counter out. The one thing the series has demonstrated is that success doesn't come out from mere force of arms. Unlike the power Rangers who constantly get a new machine every year. Elisa's held her own against a lot. And in the end it isn't the fact that you win, but that you are willing to fight for what's right, that matters.

Crusade> I enjoyed it. I'm willing to watch the next episode. That's my sop with new shows. If it's interesting enough I'll watch the next episode. That's what happened when i first saw Gargoyles, Fox was running the nextseason of X-men opposite it. I taped Xmen and watched Gargoyles. After that, first day, I taped Gargoyles and watched Xmen during the commercial breaks.

Someone mentioned Jean and Scott. You know i've noticed that in a lot of TV shows. They spend a lot of effort and episodes on the chase. the guy chases the girl, the girl chases the guy, but once they get together it's like a death sentence. i hope that I've bucked the odds in showing that marriage, or mating in Brooklyn and Sata's case, is just the beginning of a most interesting adventure.
taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Friday, June 11, 1999 11:18:15 AM
IP: dialup-209.244.75.8.losangeles1.level3.net

Entity> You may want to read this.

From a recent Usenet Post from JMS:

quote:

Just for the record: I think the first one
-- the only one written directly at TNT's
behest -- is probably the weakest one,
certainly the one I find least interesting.
It's lumbered with buckets of
exposition, explaining things that don't
need explaining, too many fights, too
many explosions, too much
swaggering around, all stuff the net
wanted.

Then we go back to the show we
wanted to make...Path of Sorrows is
terrific, Well of Forever is a solid
character story, The Long Road is just
pure fun (that's pretty much reverse
broadcast order, btw)...there's one or
two in the bunch that are a bit slower
than I'd like, but those are the
exception rather than the rule.

Just to get my own feelings on this out
there.

jms
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@aol.com]
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:58:20 AM
IP: 166.109.44.39

Hi there! I hope you won't mind.... :) You can send virtual gargoyles postcards to a friend now at www.gargs.de/pcards ! Gargs.de is a big project that has just started and will offer a lot - in both languages english and german. Actually, only the forum and the postcard service is available... but take a look anyways!
(MadBrook, Webmaster)
MadBrook - [MadBrook@gmx.de]
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:54:42 AM
IP: 145.253.69.140

I just took the Star Wars Personality Test. I'm more like Obi Wan Kenobi. I guess I can see that.

I wear a trenchcoat myself, and have gotten a lot of annoyances out of it. But I'm not changing the way I like to dress because of those lowlives.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@aol.com]
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:39:28 AM
IP: 166.109.44.39

Wilek> A boken (which I may have spelled wrong) is a wooden Katana. Sata probably has a spare one somewhere.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:38:50 AM
IP: 198.215.20.3

Pissoff > I know how you feel, I have to wear prescription shades myself. And not to mention I also happen to ocationally wear a trenchcoat too. I've had people at my....(I guess that since I'm now graduated, it would now be my old school) well most of them would get onto me about wearing them and thanks to those bleedin' high school shooting it got worse. Goddam bleedin' boarding schools..... oh well, atleast I dont have to worry about _that_ school anymore. (not a penny is going to go to them, now that I graduated)
Dags - [Dagastino_2000@hotmail.com]
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:32:20 AM
IP: 216.1.24.210

Mary Flanders> Congratulations! I only have three days of school before finals, myself.... Yikes.

Glimmer> ["One more week till I disappear off the face of the earth."] Where ya going?

** the bell rings in the background ** Oh, hell. I'll be back at lunch. ** leaves **
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Friday, June 11, 1999 10:15:13 AM
IP: edtn003995.hs.telusplanet.net

The whole point is Elisa needs some sort of equelizer, given that she's a wierdness magnet, and the villians she
continueously runs into. So far she's been lucky, but that will not last. The Illuminati being the next big antagonist, that is Bluestone's place to shine given how he's been obcessed with the Illuminati. Give Bluestone his moment of glory. Now on to Elisa. Now on to Elisa, how would Elisa having magical abilities change the character of the story? The story has changed all around her, if Elisa doesn't change with the times, she'll be left in the dust. She's a fairly static character as things stand now. I'll admit the possibility of an E-frame incase some major villian comes on the scene is an interesting idea, but I prefer the other option of turning Elisa into gargoyle. This is in truth what would make Elisa very happy as she would be with Goliath, and the romance could finally go forward.
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Friday, June 11, 1999 06:51:21 AM
IP: fltg-ppp32.fltg.net

Gunjack> <<Also, a semantic question: Why is it that "heehehee" seems a surer sign of craziness than "hee hee hee"?>> Not sure...but if that's the case, then what level of insanity is "HAAAaaaaaaHAhahaaahAhAhahaahHahAhahahaHAhAhAhAhAHAHH!" indicative of? <g>

Doug> <> Which reminds me...if one of the other bad guys wanted to make a clone army, would they need him, or could they just plunder his notes, steal his genetic samples, and do it themselves? I'm kinda hoping for the former, since I have plans that require his presence. <G>

David G.> Hm, interesting analysis of Elisa. Now I'm looking for an excuse to write a story with her in it. :) <<If he doesn't like the bloodshed, give the man a Boken. It'd be about the size of a tree, but who's counting.>> Um, what's a Boken?

James Birdsong> <> Go to AuthAdmin and type your username and password; there are instructions from there. You'll need at least a 4.0 browser.

Alternative Occupations>
Jackal and Hyena as teachers (as if the educational system weren't already messed up)
Hm...can't think of any more...

Glimmer> <<And I still can't convince my dad that a cube is a three dimensional object.>> Hm...have you tried explaining and illustrating exactly what the three dimensions are?

Kaioto> <<I give them this stupid $9.99 to get my pictures on CD, and what do they do, they neglect to tell me it�ll take an additional 2 days before I can have then until I come in to pick them up. Then they hand me a bleeding BLANK CD!>> Now *that* kind of stupidity and arrogance takes real nerve. Nerve for which they will someday be killed in a most objectionable manner. >:)

Robby> <<BROCK: "So Ash, what happens when you catch all the Pokemon?" **long moment of silence** ASH: "I... Don't know...">> Heh...which reminds me, what *is* the point to catching them all?

Pistoff> <<when I got back, I found out that some bitch in the office had called to complain because ... brace yourself ... because I was wearing a trenchcoat and sunglasses!>> WHAT?! <grr> More Columbine-related idiocy?! I thought this would be over by now! I thought society's attention span was shorter than this! Has this become hard-wired into American thinking (by the dragon, I hope not!). WHAT THE <censored> IS GOING ON?!! I'm about to tick off a few ppl, but I'm starting to hope that some idiot in stereotypical preppie or jock attire who hates violent video games and movies goes on a similarly horrible shooting spree, just so this country will WAKE UP. <sigh>

SJ> $Just curious--what did Eisner do with TRC and DMW?$ <<As the Weird Sisters said--"Every life is precious".>> Heh...true. But a tad out of character for the Sisters, unless they were using it to mess with someone's emotions. :)

Speaking of the Sisters, an odd thought just struck me--are they three separate beings, three aspects of the same being, or one being in three bodies? <blink> OK, bedtime for the twisted little blue garg...
Wilek Nereus
Friday, June 11, 1999 05:50:36 AM
IP: tnt-2-71-56k.portsmouth.zoomnet.net

POSSIBLE OFFENSIVE MATERIAL, AND ALL THAT CRAP

Bestiality: I'm not *that* desperate. ;)

Homosexuality: I've never had a gay guy hit on me, but I saw it happen to somebody else once. Two of them were flirting with him at a bar, for over an hour. He did his best to ignore them and concentrate on his buddies. Finally one of them dropped a $10 bill down his shirt. Then his girlfriend started a fight with him--I think she was jealous or something--and he ended up using the ten bucks to pay for a taxi ride home.

OFFENSIVE STUFF OVER

Doug: Thanks, I hope so. I've been working on this so long, I've lost all objectivity. I'm in the stage now where I'm paranoid that it'll suck. But then, I'm that way about everything I write. ;)

Vegas Gathering? Hmm ... Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. heheheheee

Durid: Yup, it's pretty frightening, isn't it? At least the Assassin website put a Hampsterblast page up; maybe they'll do the same for the Cowdance. :)

Okay, now for something truly offensive: This morning I delivered a pizza to my old high school, and when I got back, I found out that some bitch in the office had called to complain because ... brace yourself ... because I was wearing a trenchcoat and sunglasses! When told that they were prescription sunglasses, she said, "Well, we'll allow the sunglasses, then."

Grrrr! Rotten bitch!
Pistoff - [pistoff@anti-social.com]
Friday, June 11, 1999 04:23:18 AM
IP: wire-18.koalas.com

Hi everyone it's the end of the week at last!!(Queen's birthday on Monday overhear so I get three days of YESSSS!!:-)

PETER:Thanks for answering my question it was appreciated:)

Aaron:Demona's extremely high impact aerobics>>*ROTFLMAO (Literaly)*I can see it now,Inside an aerobics hall a class of middle aged fittness freaks(Full tracksuits,bottles of Gatorade,Headbands you know the type)running like they have never run before,they can't escape(Sombody locked the doors:)),Demona corner's one of them and goes into an exercise routine"one-two-three-KICK"Roudhouse kicking the unfortunate in the head knocking it clean off"Who's going to be the next to reach the PAIN barrier":-)

GLIMMER:Now I have the random image of Demona in a leotard carring a mace:)>>There's a picture I wont be able to get out of my head for a while ;)

Click my name for something I found the other day.
PEZ"It's more than just a candy":)

Xanathar
Melbourne, victoria, Australia
Friday, June 11, 1999 04:15:53 AM
IP: 203.29.192.74

Okay... Everybody in the room had BETTER recognize this tune...
Robby the CR DJ
Friday, June 11, 1999 03:50:17 AM
IP: spider-wa044.proxy.aol.com

***Entrance***
"Ok, technical problems more or less sloved. *sigh* I can't believe the moment that I choose to thank DC is the moment he starts working on my computer! Oh well, he should be taken care of now, and I can get a fairly serious post up!"
***End Entrance***

Doug: Hmmm, true. Oh well.

Greg and Keith interview: Just wondering, when was this done? Anybody know? (I noticed that the copywrite is 1999) And what exactly is this Critical Eye thing? A Magizine?

G'99 schedlues> That reminds me, anyone arriveing in Dallas the day BEFORE the G'99? The afternoon of the 24th I believe? *shrug* so I was thinking of doing some extra touring before.

Gargoyle Afterlife> My personel oponion about that - they do have one. The Coldtrio just don't rember it while liveing. Or (and this is actually a little disturbing) that when in stone form, Gargoyles can never truly die until they are dust.

Blue Caeru> Glad you like it, this place is a great source of inspiration! And it has the added bounus of keeping several crazies off the strees, includeing your's truly :).
WE ARE THE GARGOYLES FANDOM, YOU WILL BE ASSLIMIATED. YOUR PECLURTIES AND INSANTIES WILL BE ADDED TO OUR OWN, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE! Uh, I get that right?
And I was wondering what happened to Fluer myself, thanks.

Sevarius Jr. rant> Good point. I said this to some people before, I will say it again (though addimtly I am largly repeating what others have said, I agree with it). The Media is just a reflection of society itself, it is not the cause. If you truly want to prevent another Littleton from happening, see what can be done on teaching children better. And get the kids and their parents to accept respionsabilty for their actions instead of relying in Government to raise your family.

Buffy Online> Is that still up? And is it working? I DL it, but all I got was a green window and no sound.

Pistoff> Eaaaaah. *Homer Voice* Hmmmm, Cows Dancing. Hmmmm, more beer. *normal voice* You're right, that was truly disturbing Pissy, just what exactly is that, and how can we stop it?

Christine> Demon Whispers> Oh yes, that reminds me, I need to get an adult pass to that area.... Then I'll read it. Next fic about Amber? Great, I have been wondering what Castaway has planned for her.

***RP Exit with DC***
"Well, it's getting late, I'll have to read everything from Wendsday afternoon and on later." raises his arms, but stops suddenly. "Oh you were wondering what I did to DC? *grins maically* I did the worst thing I could possibly do to him." Gestures quickly and disappears in a puff of smoke.

"But MOOOOMMMMM! It's what I do!" Says a whiney voice from the side.

"I don't care boy, while I'm liveing with you, you will be following my rules if you want to stay with your wife, is that clear! Why I ever let her marry a worthless person like you.... Just how are you supporting my daughter anyway?" replies an elderly woman's voice.

"Umm, ahhh. I manage." says DC.

"Really now. Well Durid made arrangement for me to live with you for awhile, let's just see how well you *manage*."

"Ummm, that's a bad id-OOOWWWWWWWWW!!! Let go of my ear!!" And the voice fades off in the distance..
***End RP exit with DC***
Durid - [durid@uswest.net]
MN, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 01:52:02 AM
IP: dialupd250.mpls.uswest.net

Star Wars Personality Quiz: I've taken it before, but decided to try again... and I ended up being C-3PO AGAIN! Maybe I really am a prissy, uptight kind of person who doesn't care for too much excitement. :-P *l* Oh well.

Kaioto> Well-said. :-) Really.

Coyote the Bando> Oh, cool! I have an entry on your "Six Degrees of Gargoyles" page! :-) Speaking of which...

Tom Cruise can be linked to "Gargoyles" by Kristen Scott Thomas ("Mission: Impossible" and "The English Patient") through the same way as the Gene Hackman one.

Well, I'm rather tired, so good night, everyone. :-)
Blue Caeru
Friday, June 11, 1999 12:11:10 AM
IP: spider-tr082.proxy.aol.com

One last question ... JackaL: Which one of you is the fork? >^..^< *G*
Toku Kaioto
Friday, June 11, 1999 12:05:22 AM
IP: 1cust55.tnt2.brockton.ma.da.uu.net

JackaL: You're not even close to being disowned ... About the worst thing directed at you was a disclaimer request from Deuce ... If people can't deal with the way you express yourself because they have their briefs wedged up a little to high, they should likely switch to boxers ... There is nothing overly offensive in what you talk about, at least most of it. Maybe some disclaimer work might be in order with the necrophiliac jokes *G* I dunno.

But seriously, this isn't half as bad as Freshman bus-rides home in Highschool. Just respect the PG-13 and they ain't no disowning possible or justifiable IMO. People don't have to read what you write, or like it. This is easier to avoid if you use disclaimers, but hey, I'd never want to see you leave the place, or be forced to mellow ... It'd be like losing my left kidney ... without anestisia ..
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, June 11, 1999 12:02:31 AM
IP: 1cust55.tnt2.brockton.ma.da.uu.net

Coyote- Looked and looked... this is the only song with that title I found... And its been a long time since I saw that movie so I don't know if this is it or not... Ah well...

More fun WB commercials... Batman giving the new Robin driving lessons, the final result being the Batmobile has to be towed...

or an even better one... (This one sorta has to be seen and heard tho...)

BROCK: "So Ash, what happens when you catch all the Pokemon?"
**long moment of silence**
ASH: "I... Don't know..."

Hee hee... And I'm still cracking up from the Jigglypuff commercial!

Theresa- Interesting link. I ended up being an Obi Won Kenobi. The older wise hermit of the classic trilogy.

Toku Kaioto- Well said.

SJ- Ditto.

**RP**

Dis Connect looks at several of the Dark Star Two's monitors, and considers what has happened. "This is very interesting... And the odds of it happening are about as good as HFIL freezing over..." He stops to pet his giant hampster Calvin.

"When Lonny blew up to atoms, that REALLY cheezed me off. And part of me was really, really angry. So angry in fact, it wanted to get revenge on Lonny as soon as possible, and reformed before the rest of my body could... So the end result is two me's... The evil and revengeful side which reformed first, creating the evil, nasty, ruthless, murdering psycho from HFIL with all of Dis Connect's powers upgraded that I am... And later the wimp that simply enjoys disconnecting stuff that everyone loves to kill and can... In essance, I'm my own evil twin! Cool! Hmm, I wonder if I have to grow a goatee now..."

Meanwhile, Jim is still sharing company with Tina.
"So Jim, what *DO* you do in your free time?"
"Well, I used to have a were-tiger for a girlfriend, but she kinda vanished a while back for no apparent reason... And I generally spend time throwing parties and rebuilding my house and stuff, and acting like the billionaire I am. Kinda dull most of the time, but I enjoy it."
"Oh. Do you have any friends?"
"Yeah. They get into the car and sing "Bohemian Rhapsody" with me in a Wayne's World tribute every now and again."
"And are they all three foot tall munchkins with cloaks and silver daggers?"
"No..."
"Dang." Tina curses, as forty or so three foot tall munchkins with cloaks and silver daggers surround the two.
Robby
Thursday, June 10, 1999 11:57:48 PM
IP: spider-wm014.proxy.aol.com

Shogun> Laughed my @$$ off! I gotta save that one...

Jenniren> It was me, thanks...

Dags> You're worthy man, you're worthy ;)

As far as the MTV Movie Awards went, I vote that Stephen Dorff is the hottest *human* guy on the face of the planet! Yowza!
SOROW
Thursday, June 10, 1999 11:54:16 PM
IP: usr11-dialup178.mix1.irving.cw.net

Thank you SJ..., and you're not to blame. Most everyone in here knows Aris and Jackal goes together like a fork and an outlet. You're right though, you're post elimated half of what I was going to say, but you put it in better words! However..., I'm keeping this part in.
And for the record (as if yall really wanted to know)- I'm straight but I had a guy hit on me, and I started to take him up on his offer but.... oh well. I'm a tease...

Kaioto, there's no need for you to apologize, I completely understand where you're coming from. Despite what people may think, the last thing I wanna do is go around and piss people off. That's not me. It's really not. On the other hand, I'm not gonna sit idly by and let someone talk to me like trash because they misunderstand what I'm trying to say. Yes, I didn't bring the point across as well as Christine did..., or whoever else..., but Aris started on me along time ago, I'm here tryin to finish it. (Yes, I am that ignorant). When I had left for a couple of months and came back to the CR, I let everyone know that I no longer had a problem with him, and he acknowledged it. Never again did one word come from him, directed at me until now. It's as if he was looking for something to jump on me about. And if he wants to handle this like bickering 10 year olds, we can do that! I'll lower or streach myself to any level to get my point across. It's as simple as that, I don't know what else to say. I know I never would have even looked his way if I wouldn't have seen my name. That's the way it was and that's the way it'll remain. I am the easiest goin person on this planet, but if someone's gonna mess with me, hell yeah I'm gonna mess back. Another thing would be..., ya know what..., bump this. Aris, you want my phone number, or do you want to give me yours? Can we discuss this in person, so to speak..., because we both know it's easy to type whatever... I'm not gonna fuss, you're not gonna fuss, nobody's gonna fuss. Just a simple little converstation, I don't care how far you live.

That being said, I'll withdrawl from this little conversation..., I am sorry for being the overly curious one here. And I'll encourage everyone else to drop the topic as well. Why am I the one alwayz causing shit like this? What am I doing?
JackaL (the only clan member on the verge of being disowned).
Thursday, June 10, 1999 11:30:59 PM
IP: spider-wa062.proxy.aol.com

**SJ bangs his head with a large mallet**

Work, brain, work! The link for the Lord of the Rings website is http://www.lordoftherings.net. Or you can just click on my name.
Sevarius Jr. - [<---Click here, or suffer a plague of flatulent Orcs!]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 11:24:26 PM
IP: 207-172-117-242.s242.tnt12.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

***BEGIN RP!!!***
The heroes slowly enter the throne room of Eisner, vampire prince and current ruler of Oz. At first, the darkness is complete; little can be seen anywhere. However, they can all feel that they are inside a very large room; and the evil of the place is tangible.
"So", a booming voice calls out, seemingly from every direction at onece. "You've made it this far, have you? Ahh...and I see some of MY soldiers with you. Lion, Mambi...I would have thought you'd have been wiser than to cast your lot with these worms."
"I serve my lord the Scarecrow!" Lion growls. "He was a just and wise ruler of Oz, unlike you! He will--"
"ENOUGH!" Eisner shouted. "I did not ask you to speak." The heroes could feel themselves being watched by the blackness around them...it seemed as if eyes were everywhere. "I see everyone is here, even Venrik. I thought I had locked your miserable hide up. No matter--I'll make sure next time to bury you so deep in the ground you'll never seen the light of the moon!"
Venrik began to move forward, but was held back. "Don't listen to him!" Wilek said in hushed tones. "Don't you see? He's trying to anger us--make us slip up! We have to be calm..."
"I'm through with calm," SJ shouts. "Eisner! I came here for two reasons! The first--to find out where my dad is. I know you know his location--hey, you own the copyrights after all. But I have to find him. Secondly...well, whether you like it or not, you have to give up Oz. You've...you've twisted this once great land, and if you don't give it up peacefully, we'll have to take it from you."
A snister laugh echoed throughout the chamber. "YOU? You worthless insects? You'll never defeat me. And you--you'll never see your father alive."
"Then you leave us no option," SJ called out into the darkness. "It's a fight then. To the end!"
"Oh yes..." the voice called out. "To the end." And abruptly, the throne room was filled with light, all of it radiating from dozens of candles placed around the room. It was a huge chamber; as large as an cathedral, and at the far end there stood a platform, and seated on a throne--Eisner. His red eyes glowed in the shadows. "My minions," he called out. Instantly, dozens of vampires--dressed in business suits--as well as several humans with hollow expressions on their faces (ghouls), and, coming from outside, the Wicked Tribe of Flying Monkeys, all began to surround the heroes. Fangs glinted in the candlelight.
"Dear God," Scarecrow uttered in horror. "He...he must have Embraced all the executives at Disney, and made the other staff members ghouls....There...there must be HUNDREDS of them. I think--"
"We're dead," SJ said, and deep down he believed it.
***END LONG RP!!****

Well, the final battle with Eisner is about to begin! And...maybe one final character will pop up later on...someone I'd love to see take on Eisner...all will be revealed in time!

***BEGIN CONTROVERSIAL STUFF***
Whoa boy, here we go again. Can open, worms everywhere...let me try to rectify the situation.

About this whole homosexuality thing...I feel I have to take partial responsibility for causing this whole debate/pseudo-flame war. But, no offense to all of you, EVERYONE WENT OFF TOPIC. In JackaL's post, in his own unique way, he was bringing up the subject of homosexuality in Gargoyles; stating, essentially, that he felt a homosexual or bisexual relationship involving the Gargoyle characters could be possible--that was the point. Aris came in, said he thought that that would not happen, that's not the way the characters are portrayed, which is pretty valid given the past work done on the characters. In my post, what I was doing, was taking the subject of a Gargoyle being a homosexual, and trying to give a rational argument to show that, no maybe not in the series because the characters weren't written that way, but Gargoyles ARE more than capable of choosing a same-sex mate. I used humans as the reference point; if humans can be homosexual, than it's reasonable to say that Gargoyles can be as well.

Well, things sort of hit the fan. Practically everyone came out and made a statement about whether they approved or disapproved of homosexuality. That wasn't really the issue. I, nor JackaL I believe, was asking whether being gay was wrong, just hypothesizing as to whether or not a Gargoyle would choose to be gay. That was the purpose of our posts (at least mine, and I'm fairly certain his). But by this point, some statements had been made (and no offense, but I think Aris set him off), and JackaL took some of them as an attack on him and/or his beliefs, so he posted again...and a semi/pseudo flame war began. I didn't want any of this to happen; I was merely commenting on the fact that I would not be surprised if, somewhere, sometime, a homosexual Gargoyle made it's appearance, because certainly Gargoyles, being the highly evolved and developed race that they are, are capable of it as much as humans are (not in the way animals are capable of it; capable as in, choosing homosexuality of your own will, and not simply a animalistic desire). I think JackaL, in his own way, was going that direction too, at first, but things got a little out of hand. Jack, if you're reading this, I'm sorry about all this; I totally understood what you were trying to say initially, and if my comments fueled this whole thing, I gotta apologize. And perhaps it is best if you and Aris don't speak again, for both your sakes.

As for the various comments on homosexuality...I agree with most of them, even though I wasn't asking for everyone to pledge their beliefs. As you all have said, being homosexual doesn't make you evil, and I love gays and lesbians as much as any other type of person. Sexual preference doesn't matter to me when it comes to making friends.
As for a man coming on to me....it's never happened. Probably never will happen, cause Lord knows I have a hard enough time getting WOMEN interested in me. I think I would probably be flattered, though, but that's about all.
****END CONTROVERSIAL STUFF****

Well, hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to see Austin Powers, so maybe I can whip up a review of some sort, if Doug or Kit doesn't beat me too it! :)
BTW, I'm a bit confused as to why everyone's making such a big deal over Heather Graham. I mean, yeah, she's very pretty...she's even HOT....but IMO, she's no Elizabeth Hurley! Now THERE is a woman!

Speaking of good looking women...anyone see that Blockbuster commercial with the Goth-ish young woman? She sure is cute...:)

MTV Movie Awards! AKA The Dawson's Creek Movie Awards.
Geez, you know the awards show isn't that great when the kids from Dawson's Creek win all the awards. Seriously, James Van DerBeek won for that dumb football movie, Katie Holmes won for "Disturbing Behavior"....Anyone ever see *that* movie? No? Well neither did about 99 percent of America. She even beat out Rachel Leigh Cook, Cate Blanchett, and Catherine Zeta Jones, all of whom are infinitely more talented than her.
If that wasn't bad enough, Adam Sandler won, beating out Ben Stiller for best comedic performance. Are they on pot? NO CHANCE the Waterboy beats Mary. Plus those comedy vignettes starring Lisa Kudrow are just lame and not funny, AND we had to suffer through a Will Smith "Wild Wild West" song....ugh. So far, the only good things to come from the show were 1) Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker winning best Duo (Rush Hour rocks!!!), Kevin Smith and Ben Affleck shared a kiss (uh oh, homosexual talk again...), Jim Carrey's "hippie" speech, and--in a parody of "Cruel Intentions" that left me breathless--Alyson Hannigan tongue kissed a girl. I had to dump ice down my pants for that.

ATTENTION LORD OF THE RINGS FANS!!! The "Official" LOTR website has opened! Now, there's not a whole lot on there just yet, but under the section labeled "Creation", there's several conceptual pictures of Peter Jackson's take on Tolkien. And man do they look GOOD!
I'm not even a huge Tolkien fan, but I'm anticipating this trilogy as much as I was anticipating the Star Wars films!

Kaioto: You know, you're in here far less than you should be, my friend. Where ya been?
I agree with your views on Fae power; I think they are less powerful than they claim to be, but perhaps differently than just magic. Your mention of their lack to create is especially poignant; perhaps this is why so many humans turned away from them (they could, in some instances, such as Odin or Loki, be considered "elder gods") and chose to use their own creative forces to build a world of technology and science. Perhaps they realized that many of the Fae, though technically more powerful (and in their eyes "superior") than humans or gargoyles, are really little more than childish brats. So they told the fae to stick it, and went about ignoring the jerks. Humans--and gargoyles--really don't need the fae at all. The Children of Oberon may have "power" in the sense that they can use magic most efficiently, but they do NOT hold any true power other than that over anything. The destinies of man and Gargoyle are now their own; it's time for the fae to realize this and stop intruding so much, stop trying to destroy us, etc.
I also agree with you on your stance about abortion. I too feel that, in modern society, it has become an easy out to dodge responsibility. The defense "it's my body, I'll do what I want with it" has lost its effect in my opinion; with me at least, dealing with unplanned/unwanted pregnancies, a woman's irresponsiblity with her body (not using protection, being unreasonably promiscuous when knowing of the risks involved) has already been shown. You're telling me you weren't responsible enough to *not* have an unwanted pregnancy, but you are responsible enough to terminate it? That logic seems faulty in my eyes. As the Weird Sisters said--"Every life is precious".

Whoo, I got end this long post before my name changes to Traveler.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 11:14:07 PM
IP: 207-172-117-242.s242.tnt12.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

**enters the room, arms up to his elbows covered in black grease. He switches out the candles, accidentally sets the grease on his arms ablaze with the new candle's flame, beats them out, then sits down.**

Ugh ... stupid stupid engineer creatures!! How else do you explain having to move the friggin' A/C compressor to replace the thermostat?!

I am avoiding the controversial talk. I don't want no flaming in here. We're all friends here, or so I've been led to believe.

WCC: Thanks everyone for your continued patience!

Valentine: Hope to see ya's in Dallas!

Deuce: Yikes. Get well soon, dude.

Kyryn: Here's hoping they did better tonight. I haven't heard the score yet ...

Aaron: Please, put pics up of the tat when you get it done! Speaking of Demona tats ... anyone seen Baby Fey around here lately? **sighs, fixates on the candle briefly, then continues**

Shogun: Nice creativity demon there. I liked 'em both!

And speaking of creativity demons ... I took a short amount of time and assembled the page linked to my name. It's the best of those Six Degrees of Gargoyles things from earlier in the week, at least IMHO, organized, easy to read, and collected by author. Have fun!

Robby: Request for the CR DJ, if'ns ya don't mind: "Looking Through Your Eyes." **groans from around the room** I know, I know, it's from *THAT* movie ... but ... well ...

**falls silent, plants chin firmly in hand, and fixates on the candle, whimpering quietly.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Thursday, June 10, 1999 11:06:26 PM
IP: modem48.i-is.com

ah well, just for the fun of re-casting
THE CAST OF GARGS AS THE CAST OF AUSTIN POWERS
Brooklyn>Austin Powers
Thailog>Dr. Evil
Xanatos> #2
Demona> Frau Farbisina
Lexington>Seth Evil
Elisa> Ms. Kensington
Delilah> Alotta Fagina
The Valkyries(The Demona version steel clan)> Fembots
Wolf> the irish guy with the Charm Bracelet
Coyote> Random Task
Owen> Basil Exposition
Fang> Mr. Bigglesworth
if someone else thought of this first, chalk it up to coincidence, and as for Madoc as Dr. Evil, somehow I don't see him using lines like "Activate the unneccessarily slow dipping mechanism"
Shogun raptor
Thursday, June 10, 1999 10:04:55 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

RANDOM TGS CREATIVITY DEMON:
Alexander is a young adult when he falls over while vacationing in Alaska, He sees the ghostly image of Puck who directs him to go to the Everglades and seek out his old teacher: and as-yet unnamed fey with green skin, big ears and rampant dyslexia
Shogun raptor
Thursday, June 10, 1999 09:56:47 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

Sorrow > oops.....sorry. forgive me, please.
Dags - [Dagastino_2000@hotmail.com]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 09:56:20 PM
IP: 216.1.24.219

***MORE CONTROVERSY***

Aris> Homosexuality doesn't compare to sunsets or counting stars, because the latters are a result of our human psyche. Homosexuality, on the other hand, has been proven to be genetic, and although it influences people mentally (sexual orientation is psychological) it has nothing to do with "what makes us human"; the ability to appreciate the beauty of a sunset, for example.

Like Christine said, we humans aren't the only species on this earth that exhibit homosexuality (though I'll admit I didn't know that before she said it ;)).

As for things like priesthood, oral sex and masturbation being impediments to procreation, those are not comparable at all to homosexuality because they are ALTERNATIVES. Someone who is gay can't decide to have straight sex, like someone who is a priest can decide to drop out to raise a family.

The idea that homosexuality is a form of natural population control instituted by evolution is intriguing, though. And it makes sense. If any species was in need of population control, it would be us.

That doesn't explain bisexuality, though. Could -it- be an unintended off-shoot of nature's attempt to control procreation? I.e. the genes for homosexuality and heterosexuality get mixed up every now and then, as happens with genetics, and bisexuality results?

In any case, I can't see Brooklyn as gay. If we were to really stretch it, we might say that he'd experiment, given his rebellious nature and retro inclinations. But there's no way he could be inherently gay. With gargoyles, would nature even institute homosexuality? The gargoyle race is inherently a sparse one; I don't think population control would be necessary (if we were to take it from that angle)...

***END CONTROVERSY***
Entity
Thursday, June 10, 1999 09:51:43 PM
IP: 207.223.222.32

Glimmer> You're right. Thanks for pointing that out.

The only thing I might add is that everybody else pretty much knows what Elisa knows. Your comment does feed into my main thrust, though. For Elisa to really pull her weight, we need to see the situations where she comes in handy. Elisa is probably the reason that the Gargoyles' patrols are so effective. With her knowledge of the streets and the police, she can tell the Gargoyles where they need to be. Otherwise they'd just have to fly around at random. They'd still be effective against petty criminals, but mostly useless against organized crime, like the Yakusa or Tony Dracon.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Thursday, June 10, 1999 09:43:22 PM
IP: pppb39-resalefortworth1-1r1035.saturn.bbn.com

**Aftermath Part I Spoilers**
I liked it. I genuinely liked this episode a lot. The scenes with Alex and the fuzzy are perfectly done. The conflict Demona is feeling is certainly impressive. The crying is realistic yet necessarily vague. Demona has a lot to feel miserable about. For one thing, she finally rediscovered the gargoyle way after centuries gone astray, and reflection can be murderous as it unburies the conscience. Also, she saves Elisa, abandoning her hate�s control on her life. Remove the hate from Demona�s existence and she�s left quite hollow with the exceptions of Andrea and Angela. Also, she has to accept that Elisa has a positive impact in the life of her clan, and is a far better clan-member than she ever has been. What is more, she is a better influence and example for Angela than Demona herself.

Othello and Desdemona: Well, yes, I�ll admit that this violates a lot of trends in some respects. However, though magic comes with a price, Coldstone and Coldfire had paid the ultimate price. They were corpses, waiting to fall over, and the only one who could save them was the one whose cause they sacrificed themselves for. They have already paid very heavy prices, though the physics of magic doesn�t really work out based on justice. Still, isn�t the favor of Titania worth something?

**end spoiler type stuff**

JEB: Rastifarians actually are an odd Christian sect from the Caribbean who use Ganja in their sacraments � Ah well, ours in not to judge *shakes his head and chuckles*

Power: You know, maybe it is just my worldview, but I don�t think the Fay really have all the power they let on. Sure, they can manipulate things, destroy continents, but they demonstrate very little power to create. They are incapable of creating a Utopia, obviously, or they would�ve done it by now. They aren�t gods, nor come close to replacing God. They didn�t create the universe, nor can they cure all its ills. They can use and abuse only what is already there, just like Man with science. Too much attention is being paid to flashy power, at times, and less to the ability to do good, which comes from within. Power like that of the Fay, where is the price in that, I might add?

**Controversial Issues:**

Homosexuality: Well, simply put, I�m pro-people and anti-behavior. I understand and accept that people can not and should not be expected to change their sexual preferences. Being homosexual or bisexual does not in any way mean that you are a defective or evil person. I find the immorality in sexuality comes from fornication of any sort. I�m perhaps one of the few true believers and practitioners of abstinence before marriage. I believe that sex is a grave responsibility, and should be reserved only for relationships already dedicated towards providing a stable family environment for a child. It also has severe emotional effects on the human psyche that have been proven, but largely ignored by a culture whose sexual mores are more and more selling out to the media�s realization that sex sells. Sex without intimacy is not healthy for human beings. False intimacy and lack of communication and commitment are not healthy either. Fornication is selfish and unhealthy. Sure, it is an animal instinct, but it is also a severe impactive on the mental, spiritual, and emotional states of human beings. Playing games and risking damage to the well being of others and yourself for a selfish want is irresponsible and sinful. I�m against fornication in all forms, but not against homosexuals or bisexuals or heterosexuals, only the behavior. As for homosexual marriages � marriage is another ball of wax entirely, but let�s just say I tend to think that commitment between life-mates in too sacred to squander because of gender.

As for promiscuity, I think it is shameful and reflects poorly on a person�s character, but I pass very few heavy or non-temporal judgements on actual people, though I am quick to mark the right and wrong in actions. I find what JackaL does often totally reprehensible and saddening, but that does not change the fact that I love him as a fellow human being and a friend. What is more, it does not make him any less worthy of that respect.

Gargs etc. : No, gargoyles are not beasts, they are people. They are capable of intimacy, sensitively and sentiently raising children, and they are capable of love as truly as any human. Same thing in other fantasy worlds about aliens or demi-humans. Elves, were-folk, Minbari, Vulcans etc. It is never treated like bestiality by any but the ignorant in the worlds of Dungeons and Dragons, Star Trek, and Babylon 5. The factor is not biology, as JackaL indicated in his monkey comments, but sentience and spirituality, which some people have problems having faith in.

Much related to my stance on abortion, I find the 99% of abortion that I object to unswervingly answers the �Right to Choose� stance with the simple fact that in these 99% of cases, there was a choice already made, the choice to put one�s selfish desires ahead of severe consequences. As a result of this choice, an unplanned pregnancy. Abortion should not be an option to avoid the responsibility of a selfish decision at the expense of an unborn child�s life. Saving a mother�s life and such, I understand and can accept. Committing murder because you couldn�t keep it in your pants: never.

Passes: I don�t appreciate that sentiment much, people making passes at me of the same gender. I also find that certain types of approaches by heterosexuals are even more offensive, however. I don�t like being sized up like meat, and watching other people do it, especially my friends, sickens me. I find unwanted attentions are annoying, not lifestyles. Still, I feel less comfortable being naked in front of women than men for one reason: sexuality. I have the same feelings, if not perhaps unwittingly worse, about being in the same situation with homosexual males. The main reason I�ve always appreciated gender-separated locker rooms. *shrugs*

**End Controversial Stuff**

Avis and JackaL : Neutral corners. If you don�t have anything nice to say, shut your mouths. No back handed put downs either. I hate squabbling 10 year olds on my train in the morning, and I hate to come home to it. BTW, the level of expression in these arguments may be more articulate, but the emotional coping skills and ability to forgive is a little behind. You guys can�t say three words without dripping of anger or condescension. I like you both, but not together. Sorry guys.

Peace in Kosovo: My hopes are up, my thanks are in my prayers, but my eyes remain watchful as to how real our military presence will be. If we station something moderately permanent and move back the Albanians, it�ll be a harder task than the average American may want to stomach, but it will be the only thing that will make the death, suffering, and use of ammunition worthwhile IMO. If we do put forth the effort, however, it could lead to the eventual nullification of Milosevich�s threat and a new center of stability and peace in the Balkans. Let�s build another major foreign military base. *grins*

These cursed people from Kodak and CVS. I give them this stupid $9.99 to get my pictures on CD, and what do they do, they neglect to tell me it�ll take an additional 2 days before I can have then until I come in to pick them up. Then they hand me a bleeding BLANK CD! Oh, God grant me patience, but heads are going to ROLL!

*calms down, thinks of something happier*

On the up side, I love FTD delivery service � and long stem roses � well, tips aren�t THAT hard to come by for me, I guess. :)

*walks off whistling* *pauses* Any day you can walk away from 6 controversial paragraphs whistling, you have to be either insane or doing something right �

Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, June 10, 1999 09:43:12 PM
IP: 1cust55.tnt2.brockton.ma.da.uu.net

Quickie:

Glimmer> Ask Greg is located at http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/, or you can click my name to go to it.
JEB
Thursday, June 10, 1999 07:50:37 PM
IP: abd5f39c.ipt.aol.com

Patrick> I don't think any of those others are official bids (yet), just places several people would like to see a Gathering. Sorry for the misconception.

SOROW> WB! And congratulations for your accomplishments in your time away. :)

TRC> Ah, okay. Thanks for the info. :)

Coyote> Sorry to hear that about WCC, but I understand.

WB Kyryn!

Aaron> *LOL* Love Demona's Extremely High Impact Aerobics. ;)

Doug> Heh, looking forward to that... :)

*CONTROVERSY WARNING*

Homo- and Bisexualiy> Like several others, I have no problem with this, though I am quite heterosexual myself and reserve the right to get annoyed when hit on by another guy. But I figure if two people love each other, it doesn't matter much what gender they are.
I have as much of a problem with the idea of Brooklyn being homosexual in fan fiction, however, as I do with Napoleon Solo being so in slash fiction (and how many people will recognize that reference?)- it just doesn't fit with the personality they had on-screen. Both spent way too much time following after females onscreen to prefer other men.

And I personally think homosexuality and other non-reproductive sexual tendencies are created by nature as population controls. We probably have a lot of non-heterosexuals now because our population is so dang big.

Just my opinions, mind you.

*END CONTROVERSY*

JEB - [JEb215@aol.com]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 07:47:00 PM
IP: abd5f39c.ipt.aol.com

Glimmer, you could always get your dad a set of wooden blocks and show him show to build a cube with a cube. :>

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 07:37:45 PM
IP: proxy-563.public.rwc.webtv.net

**Glimmer takes a chance and puts her head in the CR. "Is it safe to come in now?" Seeing that it is enters.**

Speaking of smoke and flames, there was a brush fire at the waste treatment facility last night. The whole town stank for hours.

The Gathering goes to Washington D.C.> I can see it now. Everyone will dress up as there favorite gargs and fey and start a picket line in front of the Whitehouse demanding equal rights for non-humans.

How about Vegas Gathering? Everyone would fit right in. The town that rose to greatness because of the mob now has a former mob lawyer as mayor. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

TRC> I was reading the warranty on my new discman and the top of the disclaimer states that it doesn't cover cosmetic damage or acts of God. Hope the surge didn't damage your PC.

Gunjack><<Vinnie(hee hee)- Billionare owner of Madox Cyberxananight Techstone, Inc.>> Hahahahaha
How about Vinnie as the next President of the U.S. of A.?

Maybe I should explain my reasons for my Alterantive Occupations....

Lex delivering papers- He's stuck with a little brother image
Goliath as a janitor- I just want to know if he can look dignified while mopping the floor
Brooklyn serving fastfood- "Umm... I'll have to ask my manager." -Anamaniacs
Xanatos as a N.Y. cabbie- Has he ever had to drive through N.Y.? Wasn't he rich before he arrived? That would mean a private chauffeur. And then he has his private helecopter. Would he even know the way to Times Square?
Demona as a therapist- I have Counciler Troy on the brain. Besides it would be fun to hear her say, "You really need to resolve these issues and then let go of the anger."

I guess the rest don't need explaination.

Aaron> Now I have the random image of Demona in a leotard carring a mace. :) Try not to breathe in that asbestos.

David G.> You missed an important point about Elisa. She has a LOT of knowledge about things most ordinary people don't have a clue about. She knows about the existence magic, even if she doesn't posses it. She knows about the second and third races and their strengths and weaknesses. Elisa just needs to find a better way to apply that knowledge.

Christine> Hiphip horray! hiphip horray! hiphip horray!<g>
A story about Elisa and Amber? Aww, how sweet.

Question: Where can I find Ask Greg?

And I still can't convince my dad that a cube is a three dimensional object.<sigh>

One more week till I disappear off the face of the earth.

**Glimmer leaves**
Glimmer
Boulder City
Thursday, June 10, 1999 07:25:31 PM
IP: 74.las-vegas-01-02rs.nv.dial-access.att.net

I hope I addressed that last post to the right person. I can't find the original question now. It was back down in the CR a ways...

Jenniren
Thursday, June 10, 1999 07:12:29 PM
IP: user-2ivf7bh.dialup.mindspring.com

Sorow> As of December 31, 1996, Hudson was the equivalent of a human 59-year-old. So he could be around for quite a few more years.

Jenniren
Thursday, June 10, 1999 06:57:15 PM
IP: user-2ivf7bh.dialup.mindspring.com

Just want to apologize for not putting warning markers around my last post. I know better now, thanks for the info.
Blue Caeru
Thursday, June 10, 1999 06:17:59 PM
IP: spider-tn051.proxy.aol.com

I'll avoid those other topics, thank you...

***** SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT! DUCK!! *****

I've recently revised and updated my Gargoyles Site! Yay!
Anyone interested in seeing the changes, please clickie my name or go to:

http://members.xoom.com/StephenRS/indxmain.htm

Thanks for your support!

***** END SHAMELESS PLUG! *****

Maintain and Check Six!
Stephen "Coldstone" Sobotka, Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Spokane, WA, USA
Thursday, June 10, 1999 05:27:33 PM
IP: m60.ieway.com

*walks in*

YEAHHH!!!!!!!!!! School is finally out!!!!!!!!!!!!! *does cartwheels, back flips, and all thing gymnastic-like across the CR* On an even happier note, my mom gave me the soundtrack to Tarzan *grins* I'm listening to it write now, and let me tell you, this is a great soundtrack and I can't wait to see the movie!
Ohmygawd....It just occurred to me...I'm a junior now! AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2 more years until college!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ahem) sorry, I just feel like screaming and running around the house like a wild child. I'm just so glad school is out (which is very understandable) and German 3 from Hell is over!!!!!!!!! :))))))))))))))))))

*does back flips as she exits*
Mary Flanders
Thursday, June 10, 1999 05:17:47 PM
IP: stk-ts2-h1-38-31.ispmodems.net

Anyone have any idea how to summit a story or poem to the Gargoyles Fan website's fanfiction section? I filled out the new author form and sent it in but I didn't see where to send the poem I wanna write about MacBeth.
James Birdsong
Thursday, June 10, 1999 05:17:44 PM
IP: gateway2.sharp.com

~~BEGIN CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC~~

Actually, just because _we_ see gargoyles as not-animals, that's no reason why society as a whole wouldn't. Sentience? Ability to communicate? Okay ... some argue that chimps and dolphins can do that and _they're_ still considered animals. "...why I let you creatures live" (Xanatos). Creatures. Odd way of putting it. Even given Brooklyn's statement, "I'm not a man, I'm a _gargoyle_," would still allow them to be described as "people," for instance. But they're, to Xanatos, 'creatures.'

And when our world is still full of those who don't think humans should mate with other humans of another color, it would be very easy for many to think of interspecies whoopie as bestiality.

Homosexuality -- it's not just a human condition (now that'd make a heck of a bumper sticker). Many animals engage in homosexual behavior. As for it being non-procreative, so are many other things like masturbation, oral sex, and contraceptive-protected sex. Besides, with our population soaring out of control, three cheers for non-reproductive sex!

Gargoyles have a more limited fertility cycle anyway, so what difference would it make? Unless they're actively breeding, _all_ their sex is non-productive.

~~ END CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC ~~

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 05:10:14 PM
IP: 06-075.009.popsite.net

JackaL--all's well that ends well--;)
jenna
Thursday, June 10, 1999 04:37:13 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Nice to see the smoke is clearing. It was getting hard to breathe in here.

Anyway, a few days ago I said something about doing an analysis of Elisa Maza, mostly to explore what she has to offer the clan in light of their current enemies.

First, let's see what Elisa can do. She's an investigator, she knows enough about acting and street culture to do undercover work, and she's a pretty good fighter. She's gone toe to toe with Demona both as a human and as a gargoyle. That's fairly impressive. On the nebulous Gargoyles Fighting Scale Demona is better than Hudson, and worse than Goliath, but not much.

Here's the problems she faces. First, she doesn't know anything about magic, or have any supernatural powers. The Unseelie war really seperated the Haves from the Have-nots on that score. The most effective fighters were those with some form of supernatural talent. Second, she's under-equipped. Her only weapon is her automatic, which looks about like a 9mm. (and is NOT a revolver, despite what the cartoon writers thought) Since the writers shy away from allowing her to really shoot people, the handgun is kind of worthless.

Now, there are three ways to aproach these problems. The first is to focus stories on investigation. If the next enemy is the Illuminati, or a smaller, sneakier group of Unseelie (either, both, or a combination would be cool), than Elisa's abilities become more useful, even though she's still not much good in a fight.

Second, you could give her supernatural powers. If she could have Demona's deal (Gargoyle by night, Human by day) she'd probably be happy. DON'T DO THAT. IT'S WAY TOO EASY!!! Besides, Demona is only able to survive because she's immortal. Gargoyles need the healing that comes from stone sleep. Presumably they have no other way to heal, so a mortal Human/Gargoyle would not stay healthy for long, and would still age at the human rate. Giving Elisa any other powers is also a bad idea. Her role in the story is to be the anchor to the 'real world.' If she becomes a supernatural character, the story looses some of its integrety.

The thrid option is to give her some decent equipment. For big fights there's no reason for Xanatos not to provide her with a hardsuit, or at least a plasma rifle. His own security guards are better armed than Elisa is. Assuming Goliath ever thought about it, I'm pretty sure he'd want that situation rectified. Obviously Elisa couldn't carry a blaster on duty, but it'd be nice to know she had one when she needed it.

The best answer is probably a combination of 1 and 3. Elisa's skills should be worked into an ocassional story, and she should start using better equipment. You could have a really fun 'danger room' scene where Fox and Elisa have a knock down, drag out brawl in hardsuits under the guise of Fox teaching Elisa how to use her new suit. (Anybody watch Macros Plus?)

Now, on to some stray comments.
More about Magic: I'm about half way through with the new version of my Magic in Gargoyles essay. Before I post it, I'm going to put out a list of questions. There are some events I want to cite, but I can't remeber what episodes they happened in. It seems easier to just ask you people than to track down every TV episode (but god, I wish I had them all) and re-read all three series.

Gargoyles and equipment: Particularly during the Unseelie war people mentioned that it would make sense for more of the gargoyles to carry weapons. I agree. Goliath knows how to use a sword (from Dark Ages), so why doesn't he carry one? If he doesn't like the bloodshed, give the man a Boken. It'd be about the size of a tree, but who's counting. The field radios should also be standard equipment, not just something for special ocassions. The clan should have learned by now that communication is important.

Oh well, there was something else, but I can't remember, and I'm out of break time.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Thursday, June 10, 1999 04:28:03 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

On a lighter note:

Forwarded message ----------
The "Star Wars" personality quiz is offered by Career Path, one of the flock of job-finding Web start-ups making a splash these days. It's a nice PR gimmick -- once you've figured out whether you lean more toward Princess Leia than R2-D2, you can rummage around the site to see if there are any jobs available for intergalactic royalty or gay robots. Can anyone argue that this isn't a vitally important service?
http://www.careerpath.com/ows-bin/editorial.cgi/special/s5quiz.htm?style=cp
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 04:15:16 PM
IP: proxy-443.public.paix.webtv.net

**RP HERE**

The screen comes on, revealing an image of Daria walking into the Crown Point donut shop. Doug is still sitting in there, now going over the possible depositions of Guod's forces with Agent Rho. "Is this the man who can fix Jane and everyone else from Lawndale?" Daria asks. Doug nods. "Who is this woman?" inquires Rho. "This is Daria Morgendorfer, Agent Rho," Doug introduces them. "Some of her town's residents were assimilated by Guod's collective." "Yeah," Daria says. "They're annoying people, but they're still my friends and family. I want them back. Is there any way to reverse their Borg transformations?" "Yes," Rho says. "It requires a complex operation that can only be given with the equipment here on the Avatar of Ganon space station. If we can disable the Borg in question without killing them, and bring them up here, it is possible." "Alright then," Doug nods. "That's good." "Sets my mind at ease," Daria agrees. "Hope we are able to go after these Borg things soon, then. See you back at the truck." She turns and leaves out. Doug looks back at Rho. "What's the best way to disable a Borg without killing them?" he asks. "You can use the kind of stun rays our Borg soldiers are all equipped with," Rho replies. "Get DumlaoX to give your Ravens some of their own." "Will do," Doug says. "Is there anything else we need to discuss?" Rho shakes his head. "I don't think so. Just make sure you and the others with you are ready to help in the attack as soon as we locate Guod's nearby base." "Okay," Doug says. "I'll do that right now." He gets up and shuts off the holovid unit, then as he is walking back to the Onslaught makes a CR post.

**END RP 1ST HALF**

Hi everyone. Yes, I know Kitainia and I ordinarily trade off on making posts, but this time she didn't have anything to say and I did, so here goes. :)

Fanfic Progress: "Innocence" is going well so far. Mandi, I think you were looking forward to seeing the immortal evil kid Kenny in my fanfic. You'll be pleased to know that he'll make his first appearance in this one. We'll also see special guest stars Michael Ironside (as a Quickling named Ernst Robinson), Chris O'Donnel (reprising his role as Brad Weston), and Craig T. Nelson (as Anthony Friedman, the Commissioner of the NYPD). I'll get the story out as soon as it's done, hope you and my other readers are enjoying the ones I already have up.

Valentine: Miss you while you're gone. Glad you're going to check out my fanfic saga, hope you enjoy it. I'll appreciate your feedback on the stories. Oh, and btw, I still do treat Sevarius as a walking mass of complexes. I just don't have him wear women's underwear and I try to keep his usefulness to the other bad guys in mind. :) Good advice to Garlon, too. Sounds like what his character would do. It's also similar to what I'm doing with the evil dragon Jadriel and some of the Unseelie in my fics.

Pistoff: Hope Truce is as good as it is long. I look forward to reading it very soon. <grin>

Christine: A story about Elisa and Amber? Alright, sounds good. Look forward to reading it when you get it out.

JEB: No, the Slayer and Quickling (Highlander immortal) Watchers are not the same organization in my ficverse. Their circles are both part of the Illuminati, however, and they share the same nickname. Yes, this will cause a few jokes and moments of confusion in my saga's upcoming chapters. :)

Argent: $ Yes, but I happen to like that show. So I didn't mention it along with the annoying ones. $

SOROW: Congrats on surviving your stressful vacation, and welcome back.

Fang: I miss him, too. Hope he comes back into the TGS action soon, or we find out what happened to him after escaping the fire in Turncoat.

TRC: Sorry to hear about what happened to your computer. Hope it's not harmed too much, and that you can remember the RP bit you lost.

SJ: You'll probably like even more that the Sevarius Overmind's leader/Alpha clone has the ability to telepathically communicate with and control all the others, and can be told apart from them by his golden eyes.

Coyote: Looking forward to reading what you've done of WCC when it comes out.

Deuce: Hope you get well very soon. Summer is not a fun time to be sick.

Robby: Jarjar the secret Kosovo peace weapon? You know, I can believe that. Just give Milosevic two minutes in the same room with that guy and he would probably agree to anything. Jarjar is THAT stupid and annoying. At least in my opinion. :) Glad peace in Bosnia has once again temporarily been reached.

The Twins: Yeah, I'm sure they stayed in the future for a while. Their attitude and friendliness with humans reflects that. However, I also hope Ari and Graeme went timedancing for at least a few years. I want to see them have some adventures through time with their parents, and their reactions to all the various time periods in the past and future, you know?

**begin statement that deals with controversial topic**
Bi/Homosexuality: I have no huge problem with this, like most people in here. However, like Deuce and (I think) most other guys in here, I am completely heterosexual. I also DO NOT like guys hitting on me, I think I've already told everyone in here the story of how I once beat up an asshole who wouldn't stop coming on to me at summer camp back when I was thirteen. My view on this issue is much the same as my view is on most issues. I have no problem with it existing, as long as it isn't being forced to affect my life.
**controversial topic ends**

Jenna: <The thing I loved about Gargoyles is that it really seemed to strive to bring it's viewers to a higher level, rather than pander to the least common denomenator.> I liked that about Gargoyles too.

Aaron: <Demona's Extremely High Impact aerobics> LOL!!!

Hmm, guess that's all I had to say. Hope I enjoy seeing Austin Powers 2 tomorrow. Later!

**BEGIN SECOND HALF OF RP**

Doug has by now reached the Onslaught. "Is everyone ready to take on the Borg?" he asks the Ravens. They all nod. "Ready when you are, Doug," says Lathrop. "Yeah," Elena adds, "so when do we take them on?" "Soon as Rho finds them."

The display changes to the World Devestator, where some of Guod's minions with handyman talents are installing a heavy-duty Techno-Nuke control console and wave generator dish. "What is this stuff gonna do again?" Hank Hill asks, screwing in the last nut. "It's our ultimate secret weapon," Guod replies. "Ultimate secret weapon?" asks Thurgood (from the PJs). "Cool! What does it do?" "Not what it does do," Guod snaps. "What it will do. It will destroy the entire Collective of enemy Borg." "Alright!" Buckley's demon (also from King of the Hill, this demon happens to look a lot like a dumbass angel btw) chuckles. "Groovy, man!" "Yes," Guod agrees. "Now get it set up, and remember that if anything goes wrong with this device because it's installed wrong, I will have all your heads." "You don't have to worry about that, Mr. Guod," Hank Hill assures him. The evil Borg leader nods. "Good." The screen goes blank.

**END RP AND POST**
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 04:08:51 PM
IP: pool-207-205-236-196.dlls.grid.net

Sorry Jenna, I didn't mean to jump down your throat.

Aris, what the f***, man?!?? Don't even say my name, keep my name out of your mouth. (typing at least). I'm not playin, leave me alone! Why is that soo hard? How can I not exist if you're still addressin me? Don't answer that!
JackaL
Thursday, June 10, 1999 04:08:08 PM
IP: spider-wj034.proxy.aol.com

It came out great, thanks for asking. It's right across my chest. I'm actually going back tis afternoon to get it colored. Wish me luck.

Later.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Thursday, June 10, 1999 04:02:06 PM
IP: ppp-116.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

Hey there--Aaron!! How did the tattoo come out of Demona. And where is it anyway? Can't believe the Gathering is so close-and yet it cannot come fast enough. Oh well--hows the fic coming along?
Jenna
Thursday, June 10, 1999 03:35:20 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Hi, Jenna. Long time no see. How are you?

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Thursday, June 10, 1999 03:32:19 PM
IP: ppp-83.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

Hey there aaron!! Your comment with the fire extinguishers made me laugh!!Thanks I needed that (I was taken my self a bit to seriously) **laughs**
Jenna
Thursday, June 10, 1999 03:16:13 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Jackal> Okay.

Deuce> <<Lt. Hawk in First Contact was homosexual, I believe.>> I don't even remember him actually doing anything substantial other than being killed by the Borg, so I really doubt we saw him have a homosexual relationship.

The only bis or homosexuals we've seen in Star Trek come from the Mirror Universe I think. (And we've also seen a Trill same-sex relationship). But some would say that neither counts.

Entity> Well, some would say there are a number of things in Nature that seem to serve no real purpose (where evolution is concerned). Watching at sunsets. Counting Stars. Homosexuality. There's nothing wrong with the first two so I don't think there's nothing wrong with the third.

If we take the point of view that it goes against procreation there are a number of things in human society that also go against it: The idea that premarital relationships are wrong for example. Priests being forbidden marriage and sex. Many other similarly weird stuff.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:59:03 PM
IP: athe530-g036.otenet.gr

Aaron creeps quietly into the CR, wearing an asbestos bodysuit. I smell a flame war brewing, and I don't wanna get vaped.

But I kid people. On to replies. Possible objectionable, yadda, yadda, yadda.

TRC> Thanks for the info on Rastas. (Does Eek the cat voice) I was unaware.

Glimmer> Demona as therapist. Now would that be primal scream therapy, or tough love? But I have a better idea:

Demona as a fitness instructer. Demona's Extremely High Impact aerobics. Demona chases you with a mace. (Or a laser rifle, for the advance classes) Running for your life is a great way to stay in shape.

Robby> Yeah, I got the poster. But I really like the regular GD 50 cover better. I should go back and pick one up. As for Jar Jar being our secret weapon, it's just Jimmy Carter's Camp David strategy all over again.

Patrick Toman> A Scotland Gathering? Cool idea, but probably too expensive.

JackaL><<Sexuality is not something you tolerate to begin
with, it's something you accept.>> Well said. And the thing about you being on something is just my version of those "Whatever you're on, cut the dose" shirts.

Gunjack> Clone the Wyvern Clan, eh? Check out Pistoff's fic verse.

Later. (Go Knicks)

Aaron leaves again, placing fire extinguishers at strategic places around the CR as he goes.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:44:15 PM
IP: ppp-83.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

JackaL> ["Why a disclaimer?... Everyone seems to be having a rather mature discussion about this."] Yes, BUT: some people may find the topic of our mature, intellectual discussion offensive. C'mon, people find anything offensive. And I don't like flame wars. I really don't mind talking about it, as long we're discreet. :-)

Aris> ["Some months ago I had vigorously supported the inclusion of gay and bi characters in the Star Trek series, for example."] Lt. Hawk in First Contact was homosexual, I believe.

Further homsexuality talk: I've said before I have little problems with gay people, as long as they follow God's commandments. I have a very good friend who happens to be a lesbian. The topic of her sexuality almost never comes up, unless we're at the beach checking out girls (or on the 'net checking out Natalie Portman).

Jenna> I don't think this conversation is any kind of lowest common denominator. We're all mature adults/teenagers here; we're keeping it mostly clean, and it is a hypothetical "what-if" intellectual scenario, the kind that Gargoyles stimulates. If you're offended, skip the talk. We'll be using disclaimers.

And that is all.
Deuce the CR Co-Admin - [deuce@softhome.net]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:35:57 PM
IP: edtn003995.hs.telusplanet.net

JackaL--perhaps I misinterpeted your post, I thought- first reading it that it was a jab at me, and I defended. If it was not intended this way, I apolgize.
Now as for why I found that topic out of line. Well, first I think Duece's comments were pretty much right on target. Second, if we look at gargs as species and not as animals, then we wander into the area of the intermixing of species. This has been a topic already addressed by many scifi genres since Star Trek went on the air (remember that Spock was a vulcan/human hybrid. Third--gargoyles adult sites may be a more appropriate place to discuss this in full detail. Fourth--People will find this topic to be offensive simply because of what it is.(I'm talking about the beastailty comment here.) I personally find it degrading. The thing I loved about gargoyles is that it really seemed to strive to bring it's viewers to a higher level, rather than pander to the least common denomenator.

Jenna
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:25:27 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Crusade> Yeah, maybe I'm jumping to an opinion. But I've had really high hopes for this. I mean, after watching B5, how could you _not_ have high hopes for its spin-off? Even if the series improves, though, the music will remain... and I dislike the music greatly. That is going to be a terminal problem with me.

***CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC***

Before I say anything, I'd just like to remind everyone of what happened in the S8 room a little while back. Let's not get carried away with this.

Homosexuality> I have nothing against people who are gay. Heck, I'd even think having a gay friend would be kind of cool. I definitely wouldn't end a friendship based on homosexuality. However, I've never known someone who is gay before, so unknown to me I might actually be very put-off by it. I don't think I would, but I might. *shrug*

IMO, there is nothing wrong with homosexuals. There is something wrong with homosexuality, though, simply because it directly impedes natural procreation. Therefore, I can't see how something like it could be meant to exist. I would think it is some sort of unintended evolutionary off-shoot. But then again, its one LARGE off-shoot, and from what I've heard it has gone way back in our history. So maybe it _is_ meant to be. I just can't see the logic in it. What is there to gain from being homosexual, in the eyes of Mother Nature?

***END CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC***
Entity
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:04:52 PM
IP: ely-oh4-09.ix.netcom.com

��An irriated, hungry Jackal enters the CR, warning enuf?��

ARIS...,you know what, Aris? It's best if you just ignore me totally, Aris. You have nothing to say I wanna hear right now, and you do nothing but piss me off. Your very presence in this CR pisses me off. You misunderstand what I say, I misunderstand what you say, we're not compatible people..., I don't exist to you anymore, ok?

Jenna, the only thing I asked you was, why do you think I'm out of line. Why are you over looking that?
JackaL
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:57:32 PM
IP: spider-te063.proxy.aol.com

I just heard the funniest thing on the radio! There's a new commercial out with these two guys in a waiting room for their new baby girls, and they start talking about Washington Mutual Funds...and one of the guys is Thom Adcox Hernandez! Trust me, I was laughing my @$$ off. Got it on tape too!
SOROW
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:47:43 PM
IP: usr11-dialup68.mix1.irving.cw.net

Jackel--oh, that smart monkey comment was so clever--did you think that up all by yourself? (and in case you don't know I am being very sarcastic, here)

Jenna
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:46:16 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

*** CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT POSSIBLY WITHIN ***

Jackal> Bestiality is sex with an animal. Gargoyles aren't animals. Gargoyles beasts are. Sex with Bronx would be bestiality - and yes that would disgust me.

I assume that you are referring to me throughout the post of yours that followed mine. Sorry if I am incorrect: it would be easier if you used names. However it was hard on my part to attribute some of your comments to myself - some really don't fit.

<<Ya know it's kinda strange, I think, that in over six months (maybe more) I don't get a response from certain people, until I make a *remote* comment about the bi/gay community.>>

My not responding to some of your post was only in the first month or so really connected to that flame war we had. After that it was really that you didn't bring up any issue I was really interested in. The bi/gay community as represented in stories does interest me greatly, as you may find if you search through Dejanews for my comments. Some months ago I had vigorously supported the inclusion of gay and bi characters in the Star Trek series, for example.

But since it seems you'd prefer it that way, I'll keep on not responding to your posts - this is my last reply: I won't respond further in this discussion.

<< I'm just trying to make a point. Point being, don't say you "tolerate" bisexuality or homosexuality, when you don't. Sexuality is not something you tolerate to begin with, it's something you accept.>>

Uh... I never said I "tolerated" bisexuality or homosexuality. I said that I tolerated self-insertion and Mary Sue fics. I do completely accept homosexuality as an alternate lifestyle and as I said I like when it's mentioned in a respectful way (as in some Merlin Missy stories - an important subplot is concerned with Beth Maza's girlfriend for example, a storyline I loved and praised accordingly). My major complaints with the Brooklyn depiction as homosexual is that it's wrong characterisation. Goliath likes reading, Lex likes technological stuff, Brooklyn is straight: these things are parts of their character - you can't change them without having a different character. (My problem with his depiction in the Matthew story though are far greater than this - Brooklyn is a whining and unstable hater of himself and the world, who spends his time either sobbing or shouting curses at the top of his lungs. If I was bi I would have been insulted with such a representation of bisexuals)

<<But don't go around down talking me or anyone else because you have a conscience or sub-conscience problem with it.>>

Once again I don't see how it applies to me. Sorry if you meant it for another.

*** END CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT ***
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:31:26 PM
IP: athe530-b019.otenet.gr

Why a disclaimer? I'm saying nothing offensive to anyone. Everyone seems to be having a rather mature discussion about this. I really want to know answers, if that's offensive, I don't care. I'm seeking personal knowledge. Should I censor my right to education in this subject matter? Seriously..., I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
jackal - [jkal1127@aol.com]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:22:43 PM
IP: spider-te063.proxy.aol.com

Jenna, I'm outta line how? Based on what, I really want to know, if I'm wrong tell me.
And a very smart monkey can pass for a very dumb human...
jackal
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:13:46 PM
IP: spider-te014.proxy.aol.com

***WARNING! POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE TOPIC AHEAD! IF YOU ARE WEAK OF STOMACH, STEER CLEAR!***

Jackal> Please, if you discuss things like this in the future, use a disclaimer like the one above. You are toeing the line as far as appropriateness goes.

Bestiality and interspecies sex are the same thing... in our universe, in which humans are the only sentient beings on earth. I don't think bestiality (sex with animals) applies to human/gargoyle sex, merely because gargoyles aren't animals.

***END TWISTED DISCUSSION!***

If anyone would like to add, please use disclaimers. Remember, this is a PG(-13) room.
Deuce *sneeze* - [deuce@softhome.net]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:12:11 PM
IP: edtn003995.hs.telusplanet.net

UGh!!!!!!!!
Jackel--no offense to you, but you are--
way, way, way, way, way, way, way out of line.
Jenna
Thursday, June 10, 1999 12:31:56 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

JackaL> Bestiality? With Goliath and Elisa? Hmm, I don't think so because although they are of different species, both species are intelligent and sentient. SJ did mention that Gargoyles and Humans were similar cognitively. Okay, I admit it, at first I was kinda surprised when Elisa and Goliath got together (with them being of different species and all), even though I thought it was very sweet. But now I think it's fine. <:-)
Blue Caeru
Thursday, June 10, 1999 11:28:24 AM
IP: spider-wc064.proxy.aol.com

Nothing constructive to say..., but then does anything constructive ever some from my......, fingers?

Kid Rock- I hate his trashy ass as well. I'd like to see Manson get medieval on his ass.

<<..had sex with a teddy bear. I immediately though of you!>>
Aww, how sweet! I feel special. :o)

<<..does this have some profound effect on the rest of the world?>>
Probably only to the people that view inter-racial couples as "wrong". Which is realtively the same as Elisa and Goliath- but that more applys to interspecies realtionships much like a monkey and a human..., seriously, break it down and think about it. It's bestiality if you really think about it. What I don't understand is, Elisa and Goliath are accepted, but bisexuality and homosexuality are not, between the SAME species? Am I evaluating this too much? If I'm outta line let me know...

<<We offer this sacrifice of virgin blood in the name of the almighty NOOKIE!>>
Cherry Poppin, huh... wha? hehehee Defintion "nookie"- umm..., it's sexual.. :o)

<<Why is it that �heehehee� seems a surer sign of craziness than �hee hee hee�?>>
What?! Am I missing something? I don't get it, really, I don't.
JackaL
Thursday, June 10, 1999 11:10:26 AM
IP: spider-wb011.proxy.aol.com

Duece> Get well soon.

Welcome all newcomers!

Coyote> I will look forward to what you do have of WCC

Homosexuality> I personally disapprove of this, though I would not hold it against someone who does have this lifestyle.

Xanathar> Type the full URL of the picture or website in the box marked URL including the http://

Cold Duo> I don't think that there will be any problems with their new bodies, as Titania seems to have done the magical equivalent of cloning enough to make up their entire bodies. I think that any future problems will likely come from an outside source, possibly Garlon seeking revenge.

Future Gathering Sites> Vancouver seems like a good place...

My granduncle is coming over from The Netherlands for six days today. As I haven't seen him in four years this should be an interesting visit.
Peter - [peter_bijl@hotmail.com]
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Thursday, June 10, 1999 10:53:32 AM
IP: kam-53-0124.direct.ca

Deuce> I hope you feel better, and yes...food is good!

Dags> That's Miss Man to you, dude! Thanks for missing me :)

Coyote & Xanathar> Thanks!

Wilek> Yes, I must agree! Life in here is near to perfection than real life! You don't have to clean up other people's crap...most of the time :) Well, at least it's nice crap!

Off to my SAT class, OKIloveyoubyebye!
SOROW
Thursday, June 10, 1999 10:49:24 AM
IP: usr12-dialup190.mix1.irving.cw.net

**Kyryn drags herself into the CR, looking like something ran over her several times**

Hey all. I'm back. I've actually been back for a couple of days, but been too busy to do more than skim the CR.

A-kon was a blast, but an extremely tiring one. Most of us on staff didn't get to see a lot of the con, but the congoers had fun. And, to us on the staff, that means that it was a good con. I didn't even get to see Bruce Campbell, but I did get to meet Tim Thomerson briefly and some friends gave me a stuffed Totoro as a delayed wedding present.

Gunjack> I don't think that it would be that easy. Remember, Demona had to cast a magical spell during the re-animation. I would assume that that was to bring the 'soul' back to the body. That's not something that would be easy to do. It might be possible -- but not easy in any sense.

Deuce> Get well soon.

Welcome newcomers!

SOROW> Hey, maybe you can make A-kon next year.

Coyote>Well, I'm happy that the Stars are in the finals, but upset that they lost the other night. I look forward to seeing what you have of WCC, but will happily wait until it gets finished to see it.

Later all!

**Kyryn turns and dives through a window out of the room**

Kyryn
Uvalde, TX
Thursday, June 10, 1999 10:32:50 AM
IP: 168.37.239.86

D'oh.... That was me.
Deuce the sick idiot
Thursday, June 10, 1999 10:13:06 AM
IP: webcache.telusplanet.net

** Deuce walks in, sneezes, and collapses. He accepts the chicken soup from Glimmer, and tries to post. **

This is SO not fair. I've got SEVEN days of school before summer vacation, and I don't think I'll be better before the break. My immune system bites. Thanks to all the well-wishers. :-)

Click my name for the sort of thing my friends and I amused ourselves with in junior high. (Alternate site: stickmorgue.com).

Magic: I prefer not to think of it as "magic"... more like "advanced energy manipulation". :-)

SOROW> Welcome back! Sorry to hear your vacation was so lousy... but at least the food was good. Good food makes many things worthwhile. :-)

Bi/Homosexuality> I don't have a huge problem with it... unless a guy hits on me. Then I get _really_ mad. My first week in the CR I made some remark on my opinion, and pissed off a lot of people. My opinions haven't changed, but I'm sure not as vocal about them.

Anyway, I'd better get off to my Religion class, and I still have to check my email.

** still eating/drinking the soup, Deuce leaves **
Deuce - [<--- Clickie, clickie....]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 10:12:36 AM
IP: webcache.telusplanet.net

There was no way this room would escape a review of "Crusade" from me.

**** CRUSADE SPOILERS *******

I really enjoyed. It was a good opening episode, could've been better, but I'll blame TNT for that.

The Music> Its still the first episode so I'm not going to form an opinion on it. But I do miss Christopher Franke's score for the series.

The Drakh> These aliens are getting cooler by the minute. Though I do think Wayne Alexander's Drakh from the fifth season of B5 was far more menacing than the Drakh captain in this episode. I hope they get Wayne to come back and play a Drakh again soon. (assuming the series is picked up, lousy TNT)

Like SJ, my favorite characters are also Galen and Dureena. I like Captain Gideon too, though he reminds me of CommanderSinclair from season 1 of B5 (I liked Sinclair, but I hope that there are more differences between them later on).

I'm interested in learning about the new rules for Telepaths now that the Psi Corps has fallen.

All in all, I give the ep an 8/10, and look forward to the rest of the *ugh* "limited" series.

BTW> TNT cancelled production right before they were ready to film an episode with Bester (who would've been a war criminal). That really p!$$ed me off.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@aol.com]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 09:55:27 AM
IP: 166.109.44.39

**Quick post**

Question,How do you link your name to a website/picture?

SORROW:Welcome back!!,sorry to hear you had such a bad vacation.

GUNJACK:See you when you come back from camp.

Goodnight all!!

Xanathar
Melbourne, victoria, Australia
Thursday, June 10, 1999 08:44:52 AM
IP: 203.29.192.74

Fifteen days until the Gathering 99.

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 04:53:06 AM
IP: proxy-363.public.rwc.webtv.net

*Valentine enters the CR to a full volume, glass rattling soundtrack of �Head Like A Hole�*

Hi, everyone. Well, looks like this is goodbye for a while...:( Tomorrow morning, a good friend of mine will be stopping by for a week and a half, and most of that time will be spent hardlining GURPS. after that, I�ll be leaving for camp, and thence to the Gathering, so it doesn�t look like I�ll have much time for reading or posting for quite a while... Still, you never know...

*Valentine�s eyes flicker as he scans the last several posts*

Sorow>> Sorry to sound pessimistic, but it seems to me that Brooklyn�s gonna be gone for a while... The twins� attitudes seem to reflect a far more stable childhood than would be available while Timedancing. Plus, I seem to recall one of the characters in a TGS season 2 ep (Witness, I believe it was) thinking how odd it was that the twins were comfertable with humans, as if they�d grown up side-by-side all their lives. Now, how many stable, futuristic, AND gargoyle-friendly places have Brook and Sata visited?

Jackel>> No matter what my personal views on the subject, homosexuality has GOT to be more mainstream than I-wanna-screw-a-gungan-sexuality :) Also, a semantic question: Why is it that �heehehee� seems a surer sign of craziness than �hee hee hee�?
Maybe it�s rabies...;)

Glimmer - Try these two Alternate Occupations:

Tony Dracon - Hair stylist (At the risk of perpetuating stereotypes, I�d love to see Dracon try to fit his mouth around a mixture of gangsterspeak and that lispy voice that stylists always have in movies ;))

Vinnie(hee hee) - Billionaire owner of Madox Cyberxananight Techstone, Inc.

Pissy>> I still say that the biggest threat to the Deep-freeze Duo should be a slow, ugly slide into insanity. Barring the above, I�d give my vote to Coldsteel getting his hands on a geneticly programable virus (ie �Syphon filter�, for you Playstation fans out there), and using it to snuff one or both of them.

Gyre>> I STILL haven�t read the stories that are sparking all of these comments, but this discussion is too interesting to pass up.

As I see it, Garlon would be at his most dangerous as a sort of Unseelie terrorist. Try this scenario...
*Valentine slips into lecture mode*

**************TGS SPOILERS**************
With Maduc dead and the Unseelie Court defeated, it seems unlikely that Garlon could summon up enough firepower to seriously threaten Oberon. Also, it seems that Maduc�s biggest mistake was his �Take on the World� attitude. As any stratigist can tell you, starting wars on three fronts at the same time is never a good idea... Plus, he failed to strike decisive blows against his enemies. The great NY quake would have been a descisive blow, but it was foiled by Demona�s semi-casting of the Nantes spell, and as of �In The Blood�, the idiot has failed to follow up that failure. Clearly, Maduc wasn�t as smart as he thought he was...

Garlon, on the other hand, has a style and mentality far better suited to conducting a sucsessful war against the three races. Instead of concentrating on small, pestering attacks at his enemies� flanks (ie the Great Ride, the minions, etc...) that serve only to push the three races into a tighter alliance, Garlon would do better to stick to guerilla warfare: a quick, nasty strike, lasting only until the enemy begins to rally, and then slipping away to hit from another point entirely. Also, I�d like to see some REAL damage done by the Unseelie, like a small country being annihalated or some such thing.

*Valentine yawns tiredly, and snaps out of lecture mode*

Just one last thought... If gargoyles really are �a stone-like organic compound� during the night, does that mean that genetic material could be gleaned from smashed garg frags? Does the whole �Cold Trio� arc mean that the departed souls of smashed gargoyles can be recovered if you have access to their shattered bodies? If so, it should be possible to recapture the souls, clone the bodies, and with a little soul-transference, PRESTO!!! You�ve got the entire Wyvern Clan back! Of course, if my �slow slide into insanity� theory holds, than that means you�d get to watch ALL of them go depressingly insane all at the same time... Hmm. Now wouldn�t that be a fitting revenge for Garlon to inflict on
the clan?
This bears contemplation....

C ya at the Gathering!!!

-Micheal Singleton, aka Gunjack Marius Valentine: A man who desperately wants a pic of Demona dressed for the Wild West
Gunjack Valentine
Dallas
Thursday, June 10, 1999 03:11:08 AM
IP: spider-tp053.proxy.aol.com

Just found this out while watching Conan O' Brian. Apparently, a peace agreement has been made in Kosovo! Yay! And also according to Conan, our secret weapon in establishing peace was... Jar Jar Brinks?
Robby
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:46:48 AM
IP: spider-te054.proxy.aol.com

Pistoff> That dancing cow page...<shudder> Although at least they had slightly less annoying music this time around (hey it's Star Wars)...<<I still don't buy it. Especially when it's used the way it was in AFTERMATH. I can almost accept something like telekinesis or pyrokinesis, stuff like that, but I've always had an aversion to calling it "magic.">> I've always been of the opinion that there was nothing supernatural about the 'magic' of the Gargs universe, that it was just energy to be manipulated. Sooner or later, technology will not only be indistinguishable from magic, but magic will *be* technology. >:)

Aris> <<Hmm it pretty much works out, but remember that super-Archmage could also make magic without words.>> I always thought that was because he was getting much of his power from a Fey artifact, the Eye Of Odin.

Doug> $<> Heh...not really more powerful, just sneakier. <evil grin> <<We just want to create a real conflict, and an episode in which the Borg have to depend on the unassimilated humans to save them.>> Ah...I like it. A lot. >:) $ <<Sorry for misspelling your name in the post below.>> No problem; you wouldn't believe how many typos I make (I spend almost as much time editing my posts as I do typing them).

Jenniren> <<If Halflings have to be taught magic, who taught Umbriel?>> Um...for some reason, I always got the impression it was Madoc. I'm probably wrong, though...

Deuce> Should have said it before, but get well soon! <pulls off Sli Sludge's head and tosses it in a trash compactor>

Robby> <<Forced to stick with AOhell, its the only thing my Apple will run>> O_o An Apple...running AOL?! My sincerest condolences, friend. $<<And has anyone else noticed yet that Dis Connect is on the Dark Star 2 and someplace else entirely at the same time?>> I noticed that, yes. Didn't say anything because I'm waiting quite patiently for the explanation. :) $

Argent> <<Okay, how do I get a pic _online_?>> Um...first you get a webspace provider (I use GeoCities, but www.4freenet.com has a list of other providers), then you upload the pic to your web space, preferably using FTP. There's usually a help page about this on a space provider's site; it's a little hard to explain, but it's easy when you're used to it...

SOROW> Ack, I'm glad you're back from that trip. The CR is always so much better than real life. <g>

Aris> <<The guy who wrote those stories was obviously projecting himself into the story (having a main character with the same name as yourself is an obvious clue concerning it). That's not the only problem though - God knows I've tolerated enough self-insertion and Mary Sue stories. The problem is that it seems he has also projected his entire family into the clan and placed Brooklyn as his own self: there's nothing recognizable about Brooklyn in the story.>> Hm...I actually hadn't noticed all that (until you alerted me to it), although I was rather disturbed that Brook's <ahem> 'new friend' had the same name as the author. Basing a fic character upon one's RP identity is one thing, ;) but *this*...

SJ> <<The exact root of homosexuality is not really known; it could be genetic>> Actually...science has narrowed it down a bit. Some science foundation somewhere did some rather extensive tests, and found no significant genetic differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals. As for my general opinion...well, no offense meant to anyone here, but Aris's "distaste towards homosexuality" comment summed it up quite nicely. <<You haven't seen the new Star Wars movie, have you?>> 'Fraid not; I prefer seeing movies at home instead of a theater. So I won't be seeing the movie until next year, when it comes out on DVD. <sigh> (The only DVD player in the house is my PC's DVD-ROM drive. Heh.) By the way...what exactly is The Nookie? Some pagan deity? "We offer this sacrifice of virgin blood in the name of the almighty NOOKIE! Sint mihi dei acherontis propitii!" <g>
Wilek Nereus
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:44:12 AM
IP: tnt-1-55-56k.portsmouth.zoomnet.net

Entity: Um, remember, you've only seen one episode so far. Babylon 5 got off to a shaky start, with terrible acting and a couple of eps that were real clunkers. But it got better, a lot better. The reason so many good shows get put down before their first season is over is because people make snap judgements based on seeing a single episode. Sure, this one could've been better, but give it a chance. At least watch more than one episode before you decide that it sucks. If B5 had been judged on the merits of its pilot or the series premiere, we probably would never have seen the wonderful epic that it became.
Pissy again
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:31:11 AM
IP: wire-21.koalas.com

Possible future Gathering site: Hey, how about Coos Bay, Oregon? Wouldn't you love a chance to scare the crap out of these yokels? We could bring JackaL on a tour of the churches and just turn him loose. Give 'em a little payback, hehe. "This is what happens when you don't tip me!" *eg*

Welcome to Coos Bay, where the men are men ... and so are the women.

Crusade: I agree with SJ, pretty good opening. Captain Gideon rocks! "... and I'll probably piss off a lot of people ..." Yeah!! I like this guy already!

The music during the battle sequence, though, was annoying. I understand that there can't be any sounds in space, but come on, we've all grown up hearing spacecraft engines that sound like an 18-wheeler climbing a steep hill, and explosions accompanied by loud BOOMs. But other than that, a pretty good start.

Best of all: Tim Thomerson had a major role! As soon as I saw him on the screen, I said, "Whoa! It's Jack Deth!" hehehe

One thing caught my attention when they showed the preview for next week's ep: I'm not sure, but I think I saw Edward Woodward pop up a couple of times. Somebody that looked like him, anyway. I remember watching him in The Equalizer, and this doesn't seem like the kind of show he'd be on. But y'never know ....

Homosexuality: I don't give a damn one way or another. Except when it's applied to Brooklyn. Not because of personal feelings or anything. It just seems really out of character for him. But other than that, whatever works for you is great. Hey, I sometimes fantasize about having sex with cartoon characters, so I'm not gonna condemn anybody else, heh. ;)
Pistoff - [pistoff@anti-social.com]
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:24:53 AM
IP: wire-21.koalas.com

Crusade> I gotta throw in my opinion. All in all, I was kind of let down. The series is trying to distinct itself from Babylon 5, but you can't have a show take place in the same universe, and follow the same plot threads, with the same writing (Strazinski's dialogue is blatently noticeable), and try to be something different. So, all through this I was wanting to hear the music from B5. Instead, I got this crappy new score that just doesn't have the same dramatic impact. It was cool when I first heard it in "Call to Arms", but it can't carry a series! I regrettably think this series will bomb. And I'm not holding my breath for it to stay alive. IMO, its not that good. It was pretty poorly thrown together, kind of like season five of B5. It had way too much action and FX when it should've had character development (and it didn't help that all the action sequences sucked, due to this new muted style that "Call to Arms" started, with that crappy music playing).
Entity
Thursday, June 10, 1999 02:10:49 AM
IP: 207.223.222.2

*gasp* Wrong color, oops.
Jaden
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:31:42 AM
IP: cache2.avtel.net

****NO RP TONIGHT****

Just stopped in while studying for a final for tomorrow. History (grown)!
Gathering-it's that close? Send me a picture! Have fun all you lucky people.

Homosexuality-I really don't see a problem with this. If two people like each other why should it matter if they are the same sex? Think about it, does this have some profound effect on the rest of the world? Is the world going to come to end because of it? No, I don't think so. Sort of like same-sex marriages...why do people want to stop this? I dont' get it. It's none of their business if two people want to get married.
Well I'd better get back to studying before I go off on a rant (too later?).

See ya later!
Jaden - [smokey1@silcom.com]
Los Alamos
Thursday, June 10, 1999 01:30:47 AM
IP: cache2.avtel.net

**returns to the room, smoking. And no, he has nothing that he can suck on.**

Oyy ... looks like I burn a sick day tomorrow trying to figure out what the hell's wrong with my car (lastest guess: a pinhole leak in the head gasket). :P

Firstly, though, somewhat of an announcement ... due to the completely screwed RL interferences going on, it looks like I won't make my June 20th deadline on WCC. However, come anyway on June 20th, because I *promise* ... I swear on a stack of Bibles and all that's holy ... that I will post what I have finished of WCC at my site on the 20th. It will also premiere a new site at my space, specifically for WCC.
And I certainly want to thank everyone for their patience.

Gargoyles On Ice: yeah, probably from the time when they *didn't* treat Gargs like the orphaned stepchild it seems to have become ... but I digress ...

Gathering 2000: I suppose it would be too much to ask if a group could get together to hold it in Detroit, wouldn't it? :)

SOROW: I'm sure when Rahsaan gets back he'll certainly appreciate your feedback on "Crossroads 2." I know I do. :)

**sits down in the big chair, planting chin in hand and fixating ... and still smoking!**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Thursday, June 10, 1999 12:29:39 AM
IP: modem50.i-is.com

No RP tonight. Crap...I was sorta waiting on TRC, but now that he's not posting till Friday...Well, tomorrow, I promise, the final battle with Eisner begins, TRC or no TRC!!! (Sorry, buddy, I know how server problems can be. No offense.)

Garg Homosexuality & the Fanfiction of Matthew Watson: I would have to agree with JackaL in the sense that it is not impossible for there to be Gargoyle homosexuality. Gargoyles seem to be, cognitively, very similar to humans (although I'm sure there are some who would disagree :p). Most Gargoyles do seem to be operating at a level of formal operational thought, and thus, psychologically, are not dissimilar than humans. They seem to have many of the same desires as we do (basic desires, that is, for love, companionship, peace [or in some cases, money and power]). They do seem to be more open and accepting than humans (however, I believe that man's inherent fear of the strange and the different is more a survival tactic than anything else; they need to fear strange things, since those strange things could very well, oh, *eat* them. Gargoyles, with their superior strength and relatively high-level of survival skills, don't need to fear), and they have different "nesting" instincts (which I believe ties into the whole "protectorate" concept), but they're quite alike with humans. So, it would be of no surprise that a Gargoyle decides to live a homosexual lifestyle. The exact root of homosexuality is not really known; it could be genetic, in which case the Gargoyles, being reasonably similar to humans, could be effected. It would be perfectly understandable if Brooklyn would choose, as his mate, a fellow male. True, during the course of the series, and in most incarnations of fanfiction, he did not show any perceivable interests in males or homosexual tendencies, that doesn't mean he couldn't be bisexual. However, as intolerant as some humans are with gays, I would think that Gargoyles, in general, would be very disapproving of homosexual activity amongst their clan members. The Gargoyle race is not a large one; there are only a handful of known clans. If a clan member was strictly homosexual, and engaged only in same-sex relationships, I would think a severe stigmata would be placed on them; no doubt, they would be expected to carry on the bloodlines. The Manhattan Clan would probably be more accepting...but I'm very sure.
As for Matthew Watson's fanfic....it was a bit odd...and I did find some of it very strange. I would agree with Aris in that it seemed less of a story about Brooklyn being gay than a semi-autobiographical story written by a young gay/bi man, under the backdrop of a Gargoyles fan fiction. Still, some of us are guilty of including ourselves in our work--myself included (however, I don't really include any of my RL problems in the RP...). Perhaps Matthew has met some real obstacles in his RL personal life dealing with homo/bisexual tendencies, and this was a sort of catharsis to him. If that is the case, I would have to say more power to him; all of us may not like his story, but if it was a way for him to vent some of his problems, than perhaps we can understand it better.
As for Matthew's "bad taste in music", that's subjective. I for one like MManson, and wouldn't be too surprised that Brooklyn listened to him. No offense to the folks in here, who have very different musical tastes, but I've never pictured Brooklyn grooving to the lastest opera song, or singing along with Elton John to the "Circle of Life". I've always thought of him as a rock fan, either modern day or classic rock (Brooklyn wearing John Lennon shades playing air guitar to Hendrix comes to mind! :).

Doug: A Sevarius Overmind, huh? I like that idea....*begins to grin evilly*

Wilek: You haven't seen the new Star Wars movie, have you? Well, if you haven't, here's the deal: you, my friend, will probably HATE Jar Jar. I found him very annoying, and disliked his character enough that I was hoping and praying he was left out of the next 2 films. I'm none to thrilled that he's gonna get a larger part, and I'll have one heck of a time admiring his goofy, scaly hide.

JEB: God, would I LOVE a D.C. Gathering. That's one I could actually go to! God, it'd be great! Hey, if it was close enough, I could actually commute there and back from my house, and save hotel fees! SOMEBODY MAKE THIS A REALITY!!!

****WARNING: REVIEW OF CRUSADE, 1ST EPISODE****
A decent opener. Not the best I've seen for a new series, but then again, TNT has so screwed over the production of the show that it's a wonder they even got what they did filmed. It introduced the characters, set up the series, and gave us a little action thrown in. It could have been better, and at times things seemed a little stiff, but overall it was okay. One big negative, however, was the music they played during the space battles; I mean, I need explosions during my star fights, not instrumentals!
So how does it compare with B5? Well, hard to tell from just one episode. We're dealing with pretty much an entire new cast, with totally new faces. Still, it did have a somewhat Bab 5ish feel to it; only time will tell how much similar it is to it's predecessor. Already though, I can tell my two favorite characters are Dureena (HOT alien babe) and Galen (cool Techno mage). Both are very fun characters, and I can't wait to see more of them.
PLEASE watch Crusade, folks. It needs the ratings badly. As I've said before, the series is only going to air 13 episodes (cause TNT canceled it, those rat bastards). HOWEVER, should Crusade get good ratings, another network would probably be interested in ponying up the dough to continue the show. So PLEASE, watch Crusade, will ya? For ol' SJ! :] )

JackaL: I finally heard that Limp Bizkit song "Nookie" today. I must say, I hate Limp Bizkit (and Godsmack, and Kid Rock, and most of the seemingly new wave of rock music, with the exception of Korn), but I like the song. Or the chorus, anyhow.
"I did it all for the Nookie!
The Nookie!
So you can take the cookie,
and shove it up your @$$!
Shove it up your @$$!"
Some great lyrics!
Oh, and I was listening to a local radio show today (a couple of "shock jocks"), and some guy called in to tell them that he recently had sex with a teddy bear. I immediately though of you! ;)
And you can send me as many annoying emails as you want, I don't care. ;p
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 11:53:35 PM
IP: 207-172-44-229.s229.tnt3.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

Sorrow > welcome back, man
Dags - [Dagastino_2000@hotmail.com]
ICQ# 31444485
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 11:36:20 PM
IP: 216.1.24.229

Oz RP'ers : I'd written my next chapter in the RP and by some outlandish chance it got erased BY A POWER SURGE CAUSED BY A BOLT OF LIGHTNING I thereby assume that some inhumanly cruel force does not wish me to continue my thread for now . I've got a an exam on Friday to study for and I ca'nt write it again . If it's still going on after that (doubtful) I'll either make the post Friday night or Saturday morning .

JEB : Bob is THE foremost Reggae master in Jamaican history .

Aaron : Rastas do not worship Bob Marley . The majority of them worship Haile Sellasie . They believe he was Christ in his second coming .

More on these related topics Friday . If anyone would like to know something specific about Rastafarianism let me know and I'llsee what I can do for you .
The Rolling Calf - [aliscke@jamweb.net]
Kingston, Jamaica
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 11:14:43 PM
IP: 208.244.41.200

Oh, sorry but I forgot something! What ever happened to Fang? It seemed like he was actually going to do some good in Turncoat?
SOROW
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 11:12:05 PM
IP: usr11-dialup114.mix1.irving.cw.net

Aw, SCREW IT! I really, really skimmed the last weeks comments...but now I'm back and I have so much to say! I'll start at the beginning...

Colorado...
This was by far the worst vacation of my life! You all remember my stomach condition? Well, it started acting up again and I was sick the ENTIRE time I was there! Talk about miserable! I stayed in the hotel room and watched The Exorcist, The Shining, Footloose, ER, Flashdance, and Buffy to name a few. And I also had to observe my brother and his girlfriend (probably fiancee) sucking face the whole time. The only good thing about this trip was seeing my other brother graduate from the Air Force. But the ceremony...ugh! "Ladies and Gentlemen: Please welcome the President of the United States. Mr. William Jefferson Clinton"...(Twenty minute pause)..."Again." And he walks out with the limo driving behind him!!! Let's just say I didn't clap. Other things: I got my mom to check out two comic book stores for gargs but she said they were sold out. Can't say I didn't try. But I did buy a really cool garg picture frame at this store called Get Waxed (candle store). I saw Star Wars and I know you all will hate me for this...but I thought it sucked hard! I thought there was no plot, stupid dialouge, and it was really slow! Last thing, my plane was two hours late cause they wouldn't let us leave until Air Force One was out of the area! AAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!!!

Officer Camp...
This was probably the most physically stressful experience of my whole life. I had to dance four days straight for twenty hours a day! I'm still freakin' sore! The A&M dorms were really old and nasty, but I must say the food was superb! Better than my house! Our officers received a lot of awards! I got into the All American Kick Company, which is pretty hard to make (5 out of 120 made it)! I guess it was all beneficial in some way...hmmm. Oh yeah, we ate in a beer bar on our way back :)

****SPOILERS FOR DARKEST HOUR 2****
Wow! This was totally excellent! I thought that the consistent jumping around was pretty annoying, but it was all handled very nicely! Someone else mentioned this..but for a war there were very few casualties! You'll all hate me for thinking this, but when is Hudson going to kick the bucket? Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to die. But isn't he pretty old now? Demona and George being the heroes...never saw that one coming! And for some reason, I kinda think Elisa is a boring character IMO...the near death thing was surprising, though.
****END SPOILERS****

****SOILERS FOR AFTERMATH 1****
The fuzzy is possessed :P The whole Alex taking Owen's bye-bye is really sad. And the ColdDuo's transformation...wow! They really didn't need to change their names, though! I think that we're losing the characters of Graeme and Ariana...we need some more scenes with them. And Demona needs to come back to the clan!
****END SPOILERS****

****SPOILERS FOR CROSSROADS 2****
WWWWWAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!! Not the season finale! I was so upset my whole trip cause I thought I missed Sata's laying, and now we have to wait for months! GGGGRRRRR!!!! Besides Daylight, this was the saddest ep of all. I was total tears at the end! I really hope that Brook and Sata are reunited soon. It would be a shame to see the twins grow up without their father for most of their childhood! And the scenes with Gwen...Oh my GOSH! Brooklyn's getting raped! ;)
****END SPOILERS****

A special HELLO to all the newbies in here. I've been gone a real long time and I hope you all feel content in here as I am. The Happy Queen salutes you!

Happy Belated Birthdays that I missed and I think there was a marriage, right? Congrats!

My idea for my special sweatshirt...the front will say SOROW, and the back will say TGS CR Clan...yeah! Has it really been a year? Now I got to go study for this SAT Prep course I'm taking this summer :( I hope everyone is having a great summer! It's great to be back! OKIloveyoubyebye!
SOROW
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 11:06:44 PM
IP: usr11-dialup114.mix1.irving.cw.net

Godd**n annoying emails- Heheheee, ok no probs!

Ya know it's kinda strange, I think, that in over six months (maybe more) I don't get a response from certain people, until I make a *remote* comment about the bi/gay community. Most people say they have no problem with it, yet when they see people of the same sex kissing, they get all crazy. If I saw Brooklyn doing these things, I wouldn't mind, I'd possibly be turned on in a weird way, but that's just me. And don't get me wrong..., I'm not bitching, I'm not ranting.., and I'm certainly not raving (hehhe). I'm just trying to make a point. Point being, don't say you "tolerate" bisexuality or homosexuality, when you don't. Sexuality is not something you tolerate to begin with, it's something you accept. And if you find that's something you don't wanna accept, then don't, no one is saying that you should. But don't go around down talking me or anyone else because you have a conscience or sub-conscience problem with it.

And for the record- There's nothing YOU can ever do or say that'll disappoint me. And I'm not on anything..., I'm naturally this way. :o)
JackaL
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 10:38:51 PM
IP: spider-ta062.proxy.aol.com

JEB said: Gathering 2000> I've heard lots of bids for this, including Los Angeles, Chicago, Cleveland, Orlando, and even Scotland. As I read, though, the Orlando one seemed to be the best bid... but we'll see. Me, I'd like a Washington DC Gathering, but that's probably just me. ;)

Everything but Orlando is news to me. If anyone else is preparing to make a bid for G2000, they need to get an e-mail to us at G99 informing us officially of their bid ASAP, and letting us know who they will have in attendance to represent them at GWT/G99. There's only a little more than two weeks to go... anyone preparing bids, we MUST hear from you before the con!
Patrick Toman - [gwtg99@khatt.net]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 10:21:41 PM
IP: 98afa478.ipt.aol.com

Argent- Dragon Ball season 3 will AIR starting this September on Cartoon Network, but the next two videos are already out. And the translation is as bad as before, and they still use that "next dimension" garbage. As far as who's voices have changed... Well... Everyone's. The studio thats translating has gone to an in-house team, so none of the Canadian actors, (Not even the great Scott McNeil as Piccolo) are around. And all the voices are HORRIBLE. They only have 5 men and five women to play every character! (And Freeza sounds more like a woman than ever... There is no reason at all to believe he's male now...) And the show has a regular cast of like 20! Idiots... I had a true full out rant on it the other day, but that was when the computer wouldn't let me post...
Robby
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 10:11:05 PM
IP: spider-wl044.proxy.aol.com

(Skips in, singing the Go-Go's 'Vacation' at top of lungs.)
Whoo-hoo! FREE!
ORACLE and FORREST> Always nice when lurkers decide to introduce themselves. Welcome to our assylum away from home!:)
DAVID G> [scared about Alex throwing tantrums] My thoughts exactly, but wouldn't that make a cool story?
ARIANNA> If you're not finished, good luck on your exams!
DEUCE> Hurry up and get better! (Snap kicks Sli Sludge.)
WILEK> Okay, how do I get a pic _online_? (Sorry for all the questions, but I really only have a vague idea of what I'm doing.)Also: Oh, _now_ I remember who the Belmont's are.
ROBBY> Whose voices changed in DBZ season 3? Wait a minute, it's not even out yet (is it?), so how do you know?
$Oh, and yeah, I was wondering why DC was in two places.$
DOUG> $Weren't some Pokemon characters assimilated too?$
TODD JENSON> So _that's_ why Anubis sounded familiar!

Gargs on Ice> Why does this conversation sound familiar?
Future 'Gathering' sites> Columbus, Cleveland, or Cincinnati! (I can wish can't I?)

***RP!***
(Everyone is too preoccupied with catching up, introductions, and sneaking in to notice the commotion coming from the 'shadows')
"Clumsy stupid, get offa me!"
"_You_ clumsy, _you_ stupid." (A second voice snarls back. A third harshly cuts in before it gets any louder.)
"Hey, you two! You two shut mouths!"
"We get them now,leader?"
"No, Eisner tell King no attack yet. No fight 'less they try to run. Be ready, get ready."
(An odd rustling noise follows the order, like thousands of feathers brushing apart on spreading wings...)
***STAY TUNED!***

Gotta Jet! Go Tribe!
(Four months 'till the new 'Dark Ages' eps!)
Argent (aka Tribe Fanatic)
stable, USA
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 10:01:44 PM
IP: dyn010-nas01.marietta.frognet.net

Glimmer> MacBeth as a front desk secretary w/ glasses :P
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 10:01:05 PM
IP: dt045nd6.san.rr.com

-Timedancer-

It's time for summer reruns to begin.

The Sun and the Serpent- Part 1

Written by Rahsaan Footman

Story Concept by Nicodemus

Illustrations by Amber

Just clickie my name to go back to the season premiere...
Robby
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 09:27:35 PM
IP: spider-ta082.proxy.aol.com

Doug- You said it yourself about Scott and Jean... "Used to like them." Nowadays, no one likes them. THey are almost always in the bottom five in fan polls that declare least popular characters, they aren't in any X-title, and they're written terribly because in everyone's eyes they're the "old, boring, married couple." AH well... (Before they left they tried to spice it up by putting Jean back in the good ol' Phoenix costume... Wasn't quite enough.

Wilek- Forced to stick with AOhell, its the only thing my Apple will run. But whenever that computer is replaced, about the next day I'll be off of AOL...

Garg on ice- If only Demona May would scan that skit she did with the gargs vs. Mighty Ducks... She designed some skates for garg feet that look wearable...

AAron- Ah, you got the special collector's edition, print run of 2,300 version of Gold Digger 50 with poster eh? Pooie... They were out when I got to my store today and I had to settle for a regular issue 50. Fun cover tho.

Jenniren- The Phoenix Gate broke when it was sent into the timestream without a mind to guide it, yes.

Glimmer- Actually, my current RP thread is gonna hit on Dis Connect's history sometime soon. Minds DO think alike don't they? (And has anyone else noticed yet that Dis Connect is on the Dark Star 2 and someplace else entirely at the same time?)

Robby
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 09:22:00 PM
IP: spider-ta082.proxy.aol.com

ATTENTION ALL B5 AND/OR SCI FI FANS: TONIGHT, at 10 p.m. on TNT, the B5 spinoff show, CRUSADE, will premiere.

Remember, this is the show the @$$holes at TNT pulled the plug on. It was supposed to run five years, now it's only 13 measly episodes. So please, for the love of God, WATCH THE SHOW!!! GIVE IT HUGE RATINGS WHILE YOU CAN! SHOW TURNER WHAT A FOOL HE REALLY IS!!!
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 09:09:43 PM
IP: 207-172-187-151.s151.tnt18.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

Hope everyone realizes Garlon is still out there, and will no doubt cause trouble. And we can't really ignore the possibility of a jail break on Maeve's part. Now, wouldn't that stir up the pot a little.:)
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 08:50:08 PM
IP: fltg2-ppp40.fltg.net

Glimmer >> :� I ran out of salt. Besides, it'll take me most of monday to catch up on three days of the cr rooms. My eyes will be in poor shape by the time I get through.

Besides, we haven't had the countdown for this Gathering.

Do you realize WE DON'T GET AN EPISODE OF TIMEDANCER TONIGHT!!!!!

Starsinge

Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 08:44:13 PM
IP: proxy-563.public.rwc.webtv.net

**Glimmer enters through a mysterious black hole with her arms filled with wood, a hammer, and nails and starts to construct an object. When she is finished she passes back into the black hole and returns to set up a microphone. "This is a permanent soapbox for lecturing and ranting about the goverment, TV, school of any level, stupid people and anything else that comes to mind. Feel free to jump on up and sound off." **

I compose an email and send it to the outbox but it doesn't show as being in the outbox. Invisiable email. I give up.

Question- What is Mr. DC's bio? I think it would be cool for him to be the son of Miss Connect and the unacknowledged son of Bill Gates. That's just in my mind. And it's probably way off.

I spent forty-five minuntes arguing with my dad last night. The subject at hand: The differance between a number squared and a number cubed. He still belives that in geometric applications a number cubed is two demensional.
And then I got into an argument with my mother about my choice of clothing. She wants me to go out and spend a whole bunch of money for some frilly dresses for attending church socials and family reunions on our trip. I bought a black skirt instead. Much more practical and I'll actually wear it more than once. Besides, I know what will happen when we get to New York, we'll spend all of our time on my aunt and uncle's dairy farm and I'll be forced to muck stalls. I'm sure the cows would appreciate me dolling up. So I finally told her if she wants me to wear fancy dresses SHE'D have to buy them for me. *groan* She did. At least I found a Gargoyles activity set for only five bucks.

David G.> Don't worry about it.
You really should consider contributing to the Grimorum pages on a regular basis. Your posts are always well thought out and well written.

Starsinger> <<16 days until the Gathering>> A sarcastic thanks for the reminder from all of us not going. j/k

X-men movie> Dugray Scott as Wolvie? I just don't see it. He had better do one heck of an acting job.

X-men cartoon> I always thought that Jean and Cyclops had so much potential. If they had stopped with the constant birage of mush and made Cyclops seem like more than a goody two shoes soldier boy. As characters on TV they lack demension. But I never read the comics so I don't know how they were portrayed originally.

I've been thinking about Archangel's line from Airwolf. When he was asked about what he would do if he lost his job, "I could always drive an icecream truck with one headlight." What jobs could we employ the Gargs cast in that are completely oppisite their personalities? Here is part of my list:
Elisa- pizza delivery(popular suggestion in the room)
Goliath- a janitor
Brooklyn- fastfood service
Broadway- nutritional consultant
Lex- delivering newspapers on a bike
Hudson- A staff writer for Playboy
Bronx- the next Tacobell dog
Xanatos- Back to the fishing village or a cab driver
Owen- Grunge rocker
Fox- a nun
Demona- therapist
I could keep going but I won't.
Come on, share your thoughts and opinions.

**Glimmer passes a box of tissues and some chicken soup to Deuce and leaves**
Glimmer - [tlmccabe@worldnet.att.net]
Boulder City, NV
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 08:33:11 PM
IP: 107.las-vegas-01-02rs.nv.dial-access.att.net

Oops, forgot something ....

David G.: Interesting essay on magic. But I still don't buy it. Especially when it's used the way it was in AFTERMATH. I can almost accept something like telekinesis or pyrokinesis, stuff like that, but I've always had an aversion to calling it "magic." I guess I just have too hard a time suspending my disbelief about this. I could accept it if it were the result of technology that's so advanced that it just *looks* like magic, but to have somebody just wave his hand and chant some sort of rhyming passage, or twitch her nose or something ... ick! Just seems like a childish notion to me.

And yet I'm a huge Gargoyles fan. I guess I'm just kooky.
Pissy
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 05:43:15 PM
IP: wire-2.koalas.com

Yes Arlington post it in the Grimorum pleeeease. hehe ah man would that be easier for me anyways. I won't have to post it on my webpage. :P
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 05:40:59 PM
IP: dt045nd6.san.rr.com

Aris: Well, easiness doesn't necessarily have to be undramatic, either. Especially if it's used as a set-up for some serious $h!t hitting the fan later. Still, I agree that the ColdDuo's change was *too* easy. So I hope there are some serious consequences later. I still like the idea that their new bodies should develop some severe defects because of the way they were created. I still can't get past the idea that two full bodies were created from a single partial one. There's got to be some sort of genetic damage, at least. Their bodies should start breaking down in some fashion. There's still a lot of things that can be done to rake these two over a cheese grater. :)
Pistoff - [pistoff@anti-social.com]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 05:26:33 PM
IP: wire-2.koalas.com

*JEB walks in, and promptly falls face down on the floor. He begins posting from there.*

Oy, that was a tiring trip. Walking all over the place in 99+ degree heat... but, it was worth it. Learned a lot about my college, and it looks like it'll be a good one t'attend. :)

Anyway, I see this has been one of those busy weeks... so lessee if I can catch up. :)

Austin Powers 2> This looks like it'll be great! "We don't gnaw on our kitty." ;)

Gathering 2000> I've heard lots of bids for this, including Los Angeles, Chicago, Cleveland, Orlando, and even Scotland. As I read, though, the Orlando one seemed to be the best bid... but we'll see. Me, I'd like a Washington DC Gathering, but that's probably just me. ;)

Jar Jar Binks: The Series> Well, they made an Ewoks show, doesn't surprise me there'd also be a Jar Jar Binks one... but still... *shudder*

Kitainia> Said it before, but I wanna say it again: Welcome back! :)
I'll be missed- er, was missed? Nah. But, I don't mind. :)

Gunjack Valentine> Interesting idears ye have...

Aaron> Ah, thank you for the info. :) *pauses* Uh... now, who's Bob Marley? I oughtta know that, but I only recognize the name...

Oracle, Forrest> Welcome to the room! :)

Welcome back, Lady Arianna!! Heh, just mentioned you being gone last week and here you are...

Robby> <<In it, there's a scene where Vader prevents Bobba Fett from shooting Chewbacca, who is carrying a partially dismantled Threepio. Hmm. Sheds a bit of new light on that scene don't it?>> I didn't remember that... but that is
interesting, and makes sense...

Six Degrees of Separation from Gargoyles> I got one that should get me hurt...

Leonardo di Caprio, go!

Leonardo di Caprio was in "The Man In The Iron Mask" with John Malkovich who was in "Con Air" with Nicholas Cage who was in "The Rock" with Sean Connery who was in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" with John Rhys-Davies who played MacBeth in Gargoyles.

Doug> Question: Are the Watchers of Buffy and the Watchers of Highlander one and the same in your ficverse?

Deuce> You're sick? Get well soon. <:)

David G.> Very interesting essaylet on magic in the Gargoyles universe. I'll have to keep that one. :) Or wait fer the post in the Grimorum. :)

Glimmer> That ice show sounds kewl!! :) Wish I'd seen it... I bet it was made in '94 or '95, when Goof Troop was in the Disney Afternoon lineup and Disney was still proud of Gargoyles.

SJ & Doug> I completely agree on Clinton's stupidity. He, like, many authorities now, only see the exceptions to the rule and coincidences, and not the unaffected majority when it comes to objectionable materials now. I fear for what's going to happen if this witch-hunt continues.

Jar Jar Binks> I think I would have loved Ep 1 if we'd seen Darth Maul slice Jar Jar into little pieces. But that's MHO.

*JEB picks himself up, and writes on a Notepad. "1. Write the letter. 2. Read the story. 3. Read the article." He then walks out to do just that.*
JEB - [JEB215@aol.com]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 05:05:01 PM
IP: 98afd973.ipt.aol.com

Ok, just a quick note before I get back to work.

Rahsaan Footman? You out there somewhere? If so, I�d just like to say... I�M NOT WORTHY!!! I just got done w/ �Crossroads 1&2�, and I was absolutely floored! Great stuff, man! I�m really looking forward to more when the season starts up again.

Doug> A story where the good(ha!) docter is treated as something other than a walking mass of complexes?!? This I gotta see!

Also, has anybody out there heard from Ryan Stout? I've been gone for a year, and there still aren't any new posts...:( Proteus? You out there, man?
Gunjack Valentine
Dallas
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 04:44:01 PM
IP: spider-wa042.proxy.aol.com

Thanks for everyone who enjoyed my magic essay, and particulary to people who gave me feedback and suggestions. When I get the chance, I plan to go back through the CR and pull up the various things I missed before and put them into one (hopefully) final version. Not today, though, since I'm spending today rewriting one of my old stories because my computer won't acknowledge its existance.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 04:10:35 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

A couple of questions:

1. If Halflings have to be taught magic, who taught Umbriel?

2. When did the Phoenix Gate get "broken?" Demona broke it in half in the "Vows" TV ep, but it still worked after the halves were reunited. The last time I remember anyone using that incantation with it was when Goliath threw it into the timestream. Is that what broke it? Not having a mind to guide it?

***
The Dark Ages ep that features Merlin is "Wanderer." It's the second ep listed in the Season 1 archive. Merlin is the wandering minstrel going by the name Rhodri ap Iefan. I believe we saw Lyre, Rhodri's sentient musical instrument, in the TV episode about the Scrolls of Merlin. In the scene where those two archeologist types discover the scrolls, you see Lyre in the background, getting excited and playing music as is described in the Dark Ages ep.

I'll be interested to see what happens to Othello and Desdemona. The staff must have something interesting in mind to have changed them like that. As Coldstone and Coldfire there was only so much you could do with them. Their situation was unique and sad, but what was there about it that was left to explore? I don't think Greg Weisman would have changed them back, but sometimes TGS diverges from Greg's gargoyle universe. In Greg's version, Brooklyn's children aren't twins and are named Nashville and Tachi instead of Graeme and Ariana. Finella's fate is certainly different and so is the way the Phoenix Gate works. I never could quite understand Greg's explanation of how it would work in his Timedancer series so I'm not surprised that TGS changed that.

I hope we can eventually get a Desdemona pic in here. She's such an interesting looking gargoyle with her double wings and that interesting horn arrangement. But I'm still waiting for a Harthoth pic to show up. Or maybe a pic of Harthoth and Meryt together...and Isfet and Apep...
Jenniren
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 02:26:34 PM
IP: user-2ivf07h.dialup.mindspring.com

Wilek: Sorry for misspelling your name in the post below.
Doug
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 01:58:42 PM
IP: pool-207-205-237-104.dlls.grid.net

Wielk: $ I seem to remember that the last time your Borg fought Guod's, you were assimilating them without any trouble, and to me that means your Borg are a little more powerful. As for the geometric glitch bombs and that stuff you said about the Borg chain of communication, I didn't know about it until now. And I guess Edison didn't, either. :) (He's gonna get in trouble when Thailog finds out about it.) Look, don't worry about the enemy superweapon. Kit and I have plans for it, we'll shut down the enemy's transponder or something before your attacking forces get destroyed. We just want to create a real conflict, and an episode in which the Borg have to depend on the unassimilated humans to save them. <grin> And Guod's collective is made up of Borg who all retained their original personalities while becoming completely subservient to their master. Unlike most Borg collectives, it has no ranks of mindless drones. Guod does serve the same function for it as the Admin does for hers, but he's less complex than she is and thus can't control and command all his minions at once. Judging by what I've seen of her in your RPs so far, the Admin can do that and more. Guod's lucky his troops still follow him even when he's not giving them orders every minute. Of course, they are mostly a bunch of incompetent dumbass stupid dorks, so...:) $

Valentine: That's a real funny image, but my Sevarius Overmind is not like that. Read my story "Masterpiece" for an example of the things it does. Hope you enjoy it and the rest of my fic.

Aris: Good points about the magic-user's power. Thanks for filling in my post with examples and stuff I missed.

More later.
Doug
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 01:56:06 PM
IP: pool-207-205-237-104.dlls.grid.net

Aaron wanders into the CR, and scoops DC into a giant tupperware container. This way, when he reforms, he'll still suffocate.

Replies..

Rev Atilla> Is that the same John Bellairs who wrote The House with a Clock in it's Walls?

Zath> Cool. I was wondering if anyone would use Joe Bob's Face/Off appearance (Well happy day, it's Castor Troy!) but I didn't know about Desdemona. The way I was going to connect them was that Joe Bob had Rowdy Roddy Piper on as a guest host when Monstervision showed They Live.

Robby> I'm with Zath. I always played Six degrees as a competition, to see who could connect things with the fewest steps, but I guess your way would throw in an additional challenge. And yes, GD 50 is out. Be sure to check out the poster inside.

JackaL> Whatever you're on... Pass it around! ;)

Xanathas> I would pay to see that.

Christine: Demon Whispers.. That was seriously twisted. And I mean that in a good way. ;>

Later.

Aaron wanders away, whistling the theme from Twin Peaks.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 01:01:16 PM
IP: ppp-66.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

I'd be glad too. I just finished a slightly expanded version that I may re-post next week if people are interested. If I was going to submit it to the Grimorium, I'd rewrite it again to get rid of a few references to the comment room.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 12:49:23 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

David G. > hey, have you considered submitting your essay on magic to the Grimorum Arcanorum over on Gargoyles-Fans? I think it would fit right in, and it's been a while since we've seen any new essays over there. To check it out, clickie or go to http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/grimorum/index.html

Garg Goodies > had some luck in Vancouver, found the Puzz 3D and some pogs. Be sure to check out the Sabledrake Enterprises table in the Dealer's Room at the Gathering ; )

Fanfic updates > thanks, all, for the comments on "Demon Whispers." I haven't yet begun my next fic, which will be about Elisa and baby Amber, but hope to soon. In the meantime, I've been distracted by planning for my new GURPS campaign that'll begin once we're settled in the new house.

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 11:12:06 AM
IP: 05-027.009.popsite.net

**enters, switching out the candles**

Briefly while I prepare to work today and hope my car makes the trip in one piece ...

Doug and Kitainia: **glances at the candle and whimpers** Thanks for the wellwishes.

Ordell: Good analysis of the price of magic there.

Deuce: ehh ... isn't that the long way around? I wouldn't do David Duchovny in one of those because he was in a film *with* a Garg actor (as mentioned last week, he was in "Red Shoe Diaries" with Brigitte Bako (Angela)).

**glances back at the candle, whimpers softly, then leaves** I'll be back later tonight ...
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 10:22:49 AM
IP: modem8.i-is.com

** Deuce enters. He's singing. ** "He�trained�O�bi-Wan! Livin' La Vida Yoda!"

Oops. Sorry.

All right, I think I got a "Six Degrees" thing, but I might be using TV shows.

David Duchovny... GO!

DD was in "The X-Files" with Mimi Rogers who was in "Lost in Space" with Lacey Chabert (babe) who is in "Party of Five" with Neve Campbell who was in "Scream 2" with Jerry O'Connell who was on "Sliders" with John Rhys-Davies who, as we all know, played MacBeth. I know, I'm sure I broke a rule in there somewhere.

Robby> ["Heck, love is the best reward in the world as far as I'm concerned."] That and an MLT, you know: mutton, lettuce, and tomato; where the mutton is nice and lean... oh, never mind.

JackaL> The scene with Picard "smashing his little ships" is probably one of Patrick Stewart's finest TNG moments. That, and most of "The Best of Both Worlds".

Oh, yeah: I heard Keith David on a Gatorade commercial yesterday! He was saying "Gatorade. Is it in you?" Hehehehehe.... I love those commercials; people bleeding green reminds me of Spock.

** runs out, laughng maniacally and singing about water buffalos **
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 10:14:33 AM
IP: edtn003995.hs.telusplanet.net

16 days until the Gathering.

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 09:47:22 AM
IP: proxy-553.public.rwc.webtv.net

Jenniren> Who says something good can't happen? Everything has a price, anyways:

Coldstone and Coldfire are restored to Othello and Desdemona respectivaley; they are now signifigantly weaker to Coldsteel.

Other examples throughout the series:

Madoc dies by Demona's hand; Elisa is mortaly wounded.

Elisa is saved by Demona; Demona no longer has the same villianous appeal to Elisa (somewhoat of a joke, I guess).

Lexington is saved by Maddox; Lexington has to deal with the pain of being betrayed by someone who he thought was a friend.

George Harrison turned into a Halfling; has to deal with not being human and serving Madoc, eventually dies to save the clan.

Puck saves Alexander from Oberon; Puck is banished from Avalon.

Coldstone is resurrected by Xanatos; has to deal with not being 100% alive and having three entities within him.

The three entities are each given their own bodies; Coldsteel escapes to wreak havoc on the world....

The list, of course, goes on...
Until next time......
Ordell - [awaltrip@cableone.net]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 07:34:38 AM
IP: ppp-132.ode.cableone.net

You know, you people playing the "6 Degrees of Separation" game and using Tony Jay as one of the degrees of separation are making things a little too difficult for yourselves; Mr. Jay actually did get into the cast of "Gargoyles". He was the voice of Anubis in "Grief". (I might add here also that I always saw him as the voice of Madoc in TGS - especially after seeing the animated "Hunchback" on ABC a year ago as the voice of Frollo).

Interesting comments on ColdStone's afterlife, and I rather like Aris's suggestion that those due to return to life might not get it. I'd certainly noticed that the humans do get an afterlife, at least (I wonder how many of them get reincarnated, or is Rory/Cuchulain a unique case?)

Reminds me of the earlier query that I raised here as to whether faerie-folk get an afterlife or not. Traditional legends say that when they die, they just stop existing, but that could be nothing more than prejudice directed against them by the medieval Church, which viewed them as pagan beings.

Incidentally, I was watching "Buffy" last night, and suddenly started wondering something. The Mayor's full name, you might recall, is "Richard Wilkins III". I suddenly found myself wondering if that could have been a deliberate echo of one of Shakespeare's most famous villains, Richard III. After all, just drop out the "Wilkins", and you've got the notorious hunchback king. Of course, I might be reading too much into it.

One other "Buffy" thought that just occurred to me: has anybody ever noticed that Wesley looks a bit like a dark-haired version of Owen? (I was watching a "Gargoyles" tape after I watched "Buffy", and the similarity of appearance suddenly popped into my head).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 07:33:45 AM
IP: 208-19-232-131.dialup-stl.primary.net

Sorry for the double post, discovered I had some things to say:

Deuce> Don't feel bad about it... But anyway we weren't told at the time that it was Merlin - it was just a mysterious bard who could foresee a lot of weird stuff. It was also mentioned at that episode or a later one that (though he helped Edmund decide on names for Demona, the Trio, other) he had difficulty coming up with the names for Othello, Desdemona and Iago....

Doug> Hmm it pretty much works out, but remember that super-Archmage could also make magic without words.

It seems to depend on how powerful the magic-user is, and how important the spell. Oberon in his weakened state (Ill met by moonlight) used long spells. In his normal state (The Gathering) he used either single words: "Revert" "Sleep" or in only one case "Let frozen rain be your bane."

The super-Archmage also used short words "Revert" "Ice" "Boat" or no words at all (his handling of the Phoenix Gate)

Jackal> Your Brooklyn comment fits you. I'm sorry to disappoint you though, but if Brooklyn was bi, he would not have chased after the few females around with such vigour. Moreover (and this is bound to dissapoint you) Greg Weisman has said that gargoyles are monogamous (though he has admitted they violated that with the Goliath-Elisa situation). This means that Brooklyn, not yet having a mate (up to the end of 'The Journey') is a virgin. Sorry!! :-)

As for the Matthew story that Wilek has mentioned, I agree that it's an absolutely hideous story, even though I don't share Wilek's distaste towards homosexuality (I've liked a lot the mentions of it in some of Merlin Missy's stories for example). The guy who wrote those stories was obviously projecting himself into the story (having a main character with the same name as yourself is an obvious clue concerning it). That's not the only problem though - God knows I've tolerated enough self-insertion and Mary Sue stories. The problem is that it seems he has also projected his entire family into the clan and placed Brooklyn as his own self: there's nothing recognizable about Brooklyn in the story. I could possibly tolerate (with a major "ugh!") a bisexual Brooklyn. But a whining and sobbing Brooklyn with bad taste in music and the habit of shouting at odd times "I'm not a devil worshipper!" is too much to bear.... :)

I had thought of sending an email of criticism but decided against it, knowing that I had absolutely nothing good to say...
Aris Katsaris
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 07:33:34 AM
IP: athe530-g087.otenet.gr

*Xanathar walks into the CR and steps over the mess that was once DC*

Mmm it seems DC's been busy today :)

Welcome to the Comment room forrest and oracle from a fellow newbie.

BLUE CAERU: I agree this place is a sanctuary from the outside world full of interesting discussions and people who are always willing to listen to anything you have to say,I should have found this place a long time ago.

GUNJACK:(Hundreds of mad scientists pull of their lab coats to reveal a suprisingly wide variety of womens underwear)>>*ROTFLMAO*

G,X,B,: thanks for putting up that interview link.

JAR JAR:I know that their are some people in this room who like Jar jar but to be quite honest within the first 30 seconds of watching him carry on I had decided that I'd like to see him Ripped apart in a similar fashion as that tv reporter at the begining of the Starship Troopers movie was:-)

GARGS ON ICE: I can see it now,all of the cast is being introduced,when it gets to Demona's turn she pulls out a laser cannon and starts firing into the audience "DIE HUMANS!!!!" :-)

(Looks at SJ's rant and starts clapping)I couldn't agree more with what you're saying censoring the Tv shows,Movie's and games that I love is not the answer.(besides Bill's in no position to give lectures on morality and decency to anybody president or not)

C'yas!!!

*Xanathar walks out of the room*

Xanathar
Melbourne, victoria, Australia
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 07:26:55 AM
IP: 203.29.192.74

Pistoff> I didn't say that giving the characters an occasional break is un-dramatic. I said that "easiness" is undramatic.

The Coldtrio were dead and then were resurrected. If it was an easy situation it would not be dramatic: The drama came that they are ressurected but incomplete: robots with dull senses. Why change that? Before it was difficult and dramatic. Now it's easy.

The "oblivion" comment> That's similar to the Neelix situation in "Mortal Coil" isn't it?

Somehow this has never been much of a problem with me. We have already had proof that humans have an afterlife (the ghosts, Rory etc) For me that constitutes also proof that the Gargoyles have an afterlife (the concept of a soul afterall is completely linked with afterlife's concept).

But a) Even if we assume that the Coldtrio was experiencing some sort of afterlife before it was ressurected, that certainly does not mean they'd remember it: Memory comes primarily from the brain, not the soul, and though in fantasy worlds (including Gargoyles e.g. "Possesion") the soul often retains its memories, that does not mean it retains them in full. For example, Rory didn't remember his past life as Cuchullain even though he was the same soul. And even now, where he does remember his old life, I'd be very much surprised if he could remember any afterlife in between.

b) But I don't really believe the Coldtrio ever experienced any kind of afterlife. From God's (or the Universe's) metaphysical point of view, since they were to be ressurected they were never "really" dead. It was as if they were in a coma, their souls kept in stasis inside their bodies until they awakened again. I'm sure that the Universe would know not to give them an afterlife if they were destined to live again.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 06:39:33 AM
IP: athe530-f080.otenet.gr

Sorry about the double post, but this couldn't wait.

Wilek: Thanks. :)

Okay, just when you think you've seen everything ... click my name for something truly disturbing ...
Pissy
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 05:40:22 AM
IP: wire-15.koalas.com

Kitainia: Thanks, glad you enjoyed the story. Truce will be ready soon, I hope. It's taking longer than we thought it would. As of now it's 113 pages and still growing ...

As for the DC death, he's got it coming. He kept me from hooking up for three hours the other day, and he's been kicking me off at the worst moments, again and again, for several days. I'm teaching him a lesson.

Still, I had already planned to finish him off tonight. So, without further ado ...

**DC DEATH: THE GRAND FINALE**

Jack has finally finished peeling DC. He stands and admires his handiwork. DC moans weakly. Jack thinks it over for a moment, then heads for the door. "I'll be back in a minute ...."

**DC DEATH TO BE CONCLUDED**

Deuce: You're sick? Aww, man, I hope you get better soon. :)

Cold Duo: While I do think all the characters should get a break now and then, I do think that what happened to these two was too easy. It would've been more logical to either let them die, or put them in new cybernetic bodies. Or maybe back into the computer until new bodies could be built. And maybe the bodies could have a few glitches or defects, and break down often ...

Aaron: Glad I could help. Wincott's accent kinda threw me several times. In The Crow, he sounded almost southern, and in Strange Days, he was sorta British-like, I think.

Somebody mentioned in here that giving the characters an occasional break would be un-dramatic. Not necessarily. A few quiet episodes here and there just gives you opportunities for character development and maybe some comic relief, stuff like that. I did a few eps like that in my series, with Elisa and Brooklyn delivering pizzas. Neither of them were the same after that, hehe. And then there was "Sit on my Interface." But the title says it all. ;)

Anyway, those stories weren't heavy-duty apocalyptic stuff, but they weren't undramatic, either. At least, I hope they weren't. ;) And later on "heavier" stories can be done. Lighter stuff helps balance things out, though, otherwise it gets *too* intense.

Okay, now that that's out of the way ...

**DC DEATH CONCLUSION**

Jack comes back in, carrying a huge bucket of Crystal Drano.

"No," DC whispers. "No!"

"You've screwed me over for the last time. Suck it down!" Jack pours the bucket's contents all over DC. The Drano slowly eats through what's left of DC's body, until there's nothing but a blob left.

"Heh heh heh, what a mess!" His work finished, Jack turns and stomps out of the room.

**GRATUITOUS VIOLENCE FINALLY OVER**
Pistoff - [pistoff@anti-social.com]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 05:27:15 AM
IP: wire-15.koalas.com

**RP!**

[On the Avatar Of Ganon, the Administrator is meeting with the gargoyle formerly known as Wilek Fieger III. His assimilation is now complete; he now sports a red cyberscope for a left eye, a jetpack, chest armor, a prosthetic right arm containing a heavy blaster, and a stinger tail. Administrator: "Tell me...what is your designation?" WF3: "X of Three, primary adjunct to Unimatrix 014 (beta designation pending final assignment)." Administrator: "Good, good. Your final designation--your name--is..." Before the Administrator can think of one, WF3 interrupts her. WF3: "I notice, after my assimilation, that much of my individuality is intact, the major change consisting of a fierce loyalty to you. Is there any particular reason?" Administrator: "I have always wanted more than a simple drone, more than just another machine to command and control. I wanted...an equal, a peer, someone who could rule with me rather than be ruled by me. When I first saw a gargoyle, species 5619, I knew that it could only be one of your race...<takes his hand>...and, quite honestly, I had expected it to be either your master print or your former employer, when the time came. <kisses him> But you'll do."]

**END RP!**

Robby> <> Do you use the AOL browser? I've heard it has those kinds of design flaws.

Pistoff> <<Still, it makes sense to give your characters a few breaks and happy endings now and then, because it gives them a breather--and allows them time to become complacent. Then, when you drop a $h!tstorm on them, it's that much more devastating because they weren't expecting it. :)>> I probably say this too much for your own good, but I like the way your mind works. >:)

Coyote> <<When I fixate to music, it's usually Meat Loaf.>> Heh...when I fixate, it's usually on the music itself. Some of my choices are O Fortuna, Duel Of The Fates, Hymn To Red October, and the theme from The Omen. Which may explain a lot...<<the C3PO tape dispenser which was a reclining 3PO, and the tape roll was between his legs.>> <cranial GPF, reboot> What? Er...<GPF again> I'd better stay away from that one...

**AFTERMATH SPOILERS**

<<By the way, he isn't even a halfling. How does he have enough power to draw a full blooded fey against her will to him?>> Maybe he caught her off guard...or, it could have something to do with the fact that even though he doesn't have much in the way of Fey genes, what he does have were inherited from possibly the most powerful member of the Third Race.

**END SPOILERS**

Aaron> <<Where're the life-sized gargoyle stand-ups and the stuffed Scar I ordered?>> I don't know about the stand-up gargs, but I once saw a Scar beany baby in a Disney Store. I loved the irony. :) <<This game's completely pointless, but it is fun, no?>> It *does* have a certain addictive quality....for those who are better at it than me, which is darn near everyone...

David G.> Wow, kewl magic essay. I'll have to keep it in mind when writing magic for my own ficverse. :) <<Possibly, if some evil geneticist created a halfling with copper based blood, his power level would increase.>> Vulcans have copper-based blood (I *think*), for anyone out there who's interested in writing a rather...odd...Star Trek crossover. <g>

Deuce> <<I've read the first six episodes of Dark Ages; that's it. Sorry, Aris.>> Heh...I've only read one ep, and that was the one with the Babylon 5 references. :)

Gunjack> <<Were this whole mess taking place in my reality, I think I�d use Iago to kill Dessy and let the heartbraek drive Othello insane.>> You too? >:) <<*The hundreds of mad scientists pull off their lab coats to reveal a suprisingly wide variety of women�s underwear*>> That, I think, is a fairly accurate description of Hell...

SJ> <<Look, Jar Jar was annoying. Not as much as I thought he'd be....but enough. His character has no further purpose. Don't try to turn him into Chewbacca, cause frankly, that'd be insulting.>> Maybe the entire reason Jar Jar was made such an idiot in the first movie was so everyone would be surprised when he redeems himself in the second or third one. Well, we can hope...

Jackal> <<Brooklyn..., yes. I mean, come on.., you can tell by looking at him, he wants to or has ventured to the "other side".>> Eh...<shudder> Ew, don't get me started. I'm in a generous mood, so my only comment will be to refer you to the fanfic of Matthew Watson. Very disturbing to me, but I figure you'll like it.

Doug> <<Threepio mistook Vader for a guard droid? Hahahahaha!!!! What book was that scene in? I have to read it. :)>> Um...I don't know exactly; I learned that from The Essential Guide To Characters, which doesn't give specific references, I'm afraid. :/ $<<the reason Kit and I had the enemy develop TechnoNuke is that we think your Borg forces may be a little too powerful, and want to create some way for the bad guys to be able to beat them>> I understand, of course, but...wouldn't the enemy Borg be enough? I kinda thought Guod's forces were a match for my own...This TechnoNuke sounds like it'll destroy my entire army; it's like using a superlaser on a single starfighter. I suppose I could do what the Unseelie did about iron bells, though...oh wait, that requires advance knowledge of the weapon, which my characters don't have...unless WF3 was briefed on it, which I doubt...<<You know how Wilek's Borg are all controlled and constantly in contact with their queen?" "Yes," says Zale. "So?" "So these waves are designed to be naturally transmitted along any recieving device that picks them up.>> Remember the unsolvable geometric glitch bomb thing from Hugh's episode of Star Trek TNG? This is like a sonic version of that (although far less subtle and complex). These are called cascade weapons, and all Borg have a defense--Borg collectives aren't quite as simple as Edison thinks; there are several levels of command, or submatrices, that the queen's orders pass through rather than a direct uplink (What do you think the 'Nine' is in 'Seven Of Nine', for example?). That is why Hugh's individuality didn't spread to more than one ship or so, it's why the collective didn't end immediately with the death of the Queen from First Contact, and it's why the glitch bomb wouldn't have worked quite as well as Starfleet thought. The command structure can prevent the damage from spreading by severing the affected submatrix's links to the rest of the collective. Every Borg within earshot would go down, of course, but it wouldn't take out the entire collective, although I doubt the Borg could adapt to it since fatally affected drones *probably* wouldn't survive long enough to transmit the weapon's specs to any of the other submatrices, and there are still the Daleks and droids to consider (although they're fortunately not all interconnected), so I'm still in deep trouble and should probably start writing my will anyhow <looming sense of own mortality>. The main reason we have so many Daleks and droids and Borg (oh my) is that the station is hideously understaffed; we don't have that many organics to spare for combat. Oh, and...the ships sent to Chicago were in fact from the Iowa fleet; there are only a very few vessels and troops on guard at the station. BTW...does Guod serve the same role for his collective that the Administrator does for hers? I kind of got that impression, but I could be wrong...$
Wilek Nereus
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 04:51:34 AM
IP: tnt-2-38-56k.portsmouth.zoomnet.net

*Valentine is kicking back in his favorite chair, rocking out to �Meaning of Life� as he cleans his handguns*

Oy, what a day. I crashed from sleep deprivation right after I posted that last comment,
and have been dragging ever since. I swear, gargoyles�ll be the death of me yet... but until
then, I guess I�ll just have to content myself with hanging out w/ you crazies :)

A quick question: aren�t the events in �Trust No Future� mentioned in an erlier fic? I think the archive has chronology problem here... Also, in �TNF�, Dr. Payne refered to Coldstone as a great danger. Yes, I know, Payne was a psycho-nutcase, but that doesn�t mean that he�s not telling the truth...

Jackel>> OOOoookay, buddy, just take it easy...Nobody make any sudden moves...;) Seriously, though, you MIGHT think about cutting back on your stimulant of choice....

Doug>> A Sevarius Overmind? Oh dear...

*An image appears of a huge room filled wall to wall with copies of the S-man. One of them steps up to a podium, and adresses the multitude*
S1 - Yes, yes, quiet everyone... Let us all join in our anthem!

*The hundreds of mad scientists pull off their lab coats to reveal a suprisingly wide variety of women�s underwear*
All - (Singing) I�m just a sweet little Transvestite...

*Valentine shakes his head to clear away the vision*

Ick... I can see that... :)
Yes, despite appearences, I do know how the fanfic concept works.:) I�ll have to check out that saga as soon as I finish catching up. *Sigh*... Only twelve more fics to go...

Anyway, the reason I asked is that one of my hobbies is examining Fanfiction as an art form, and I was wondering how long it takes for the same ideas to appear in two differant threads. Still, an Overmind sounds like a MUCH differant deal than a collective. By definition, Collectives are strictly extra-realital...

Anyway, I�m up an hour past when I was planning on crashing for the night.

C ya...
Gunjack Valentine
Dallas
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 03:04:14 AM
IP: spider-wb084.proxy.aol.com

All I can say is wow, and I'll send you a copy of the Review I do. I post reviews of net.fiction on an irregular basis, and this is on the agenda.
Daniel Sauve - [ahsdreamwalker@home.com]
Stouffville, ON, Canada
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 02:25:42 AM
IP: 24.64.136.158.on.wave.home.com

**RP HERE, CONTINUING KITAINIA'S THREAD**

"TechnoNuke," Asil repeats, shaking her head slowly. "Why do your inventions always have to have such stupid names?" "Hold on!" Edison shouts. "You have not heard how it works yet!!" "Okay," Asil rolls her eyes. "How does it work?" "Very simple," Edison replies, taking a small radio out of his lab coat pocket and holding it up. "Our enemy's forces almost entirely incorporate Borg technology, correct?" "Yes," says Zale. "That's the problem." "The problem for them!" Edison laughs. "You see, my new invention is highly lethal when used against all technology-based organisms, especially ones that are part of a Borg Collective! TechnoNuke emits sound waves at a certain frequency that is too low for humans to hear. Dogs and other animals can hear them, and will be in very much discomfort when they do, but that is beside the point. These waves are harmless to humans and most biological creatures. However, when used against technological creatures such as robots, cyborgs, Borg, Daleks, or just about any other sentient life that is whole or part machine, they cause the molecules of any organism that hears them to vibrate wildly at increasing speed. Observe." He switches on the radio. No noise seems to come out, but Guod suddenly grits his teeth and starts shaking and screaming, his body twitching as though it is undergoing a grand mal epileptic seizure. "Turn it off!" the Borg leader wails. Edison does so, and Guod calms down, sighing heavily in relief. The doctor smiles. "If TechnoNuke's waves had played for about five more seconds," he says, "they would have acclerated your molecular motion beyond the capacity any organism can handle, and caused your body to explode." "These sound waves can make Borg explode?" Thailog says. He laces his fingers together and smiles evilly. "Interesting."

The display changes to Crown Point's donut shop, where Doug is reading over the list of Guod's possible forces. He pauses in reviewing it to make a CR post.

**PAUSE RP**

Hi folks. It's been a tiring day for me, glad it's almost over. Stayed up late last night responding to Traveler's feedback (it was worth reading, Traveler, thanks!). I've been going around town handing in job applications most of the day, hope one of them comes through. So right now I'm beat, but not beat enough to post. :)

Fanfic Progress: Got the first action scene of "Innocence" done today. No, the fic's not even an eighth finished yet, so don't start asking when it will be out. It's gonna be a while, especially with the job I'm gonna get taking up my time. But tomorrow, I will introduce a new immortal antagonist and start the main plot. Hope I get more feedback on Beneath the Streets and my other fics before I finish this one, to the people who have sent me feedback recently thanks again.

Coldstone and Coldfire's Names: Plenty of good points have been made about the name change, both positive and negative. I personally agree with Valentine about Coldstone. He went through hell while a cyborg, and would not like to remember that now that it's over. As for Coldfire, maybe she changed her name to go along with Coldstone. The Cold-Duo seems to have very much in common with each other, and we know that they are very much in love. So Coldfire went through that hell with her mate, and maybe she wanted to change her name for similar reasons now that she has her gargoyle form back. She could also have been making a concession to her mate by doing the same thing he did, and choosing a name that according to Xanatos complemented his. I wonder what their reactions will be to the play from which Xanatos drew those names.

Coyote: Thanks for the well-wishes. What Kitainia said earlier about hoping you feel better soon goes double for me.

Tarzan: I bought the soundtrack for it, it has some pretty cool songs. However, I'm getting frustrated with all the commercials they're doing for it. Fears of over-hyping and all. I'm still going to see the movie, though. Tarzan and Jane seem like good characters, and the animation looks very neat. However, I also think the young gorillas are stupid characters, and not the kind of role models our children need to have. Particularly not that smartass mohawked silverback kid. Hope the movie either doesn't concentrate on them a lot except for comic relief, or that during the plot they make them mature and grow up.

Wilek: Threepio mistook Vader for a guard droid? Hahahahaha!!!! What book was that scene in? I have to read it. :) $ Oh, by the way, the reason Kit and I had the enemy develop TechnoNuke is that we think your Borg forces may be a little too powerful, and want to create some way for the bad guys to be able to beat them. If we didn't do this, our RP would get too predictable and our victories would come too easily. We need real conflict here, so we need a weapon that our most powerful force (ie, your Borg army) is nearly helpless against. Hope you understand. $

Valentine: I'm doing a Sevarius Overmind in my fic saga. That doesn't mean other writers can't do an Overmind with another character, though. Fanfic's a pretty free market. However, if someone wants to use another author's concepts or characters, and they know the other author thought of them first, they have to ask that author if it's okay. And give them credit in the story disclaimer. So as long as nobody's doing a Sevarius Overmind that rips off my idea, I don't care if another Overmind exists in another author's work. Same deal for any author and concept in Gargoyles fanfiction, I think. :)

Aris: Good points about the Coldstone-Coldfire arc. I too wish there had been more dramatic point to their transformation. I know their time as cyborgs had to have affected their characters in some ways and they may have difficulty getting used to being normal gargs again. Maybe in future stories TGS will move forward with some of the ideas we've brought up in here, and explore how the Cold-Duo were affected by their change. (I wonder if they'll miss their old forms any? :) Creativity demon- Othello tries to shoot at a criminal, then remembers too late that he no longer has an arm-cannon. Uh oh!

GXB: Thanks for posting the interview link. Good to know Keith and Greg still have so many fond memories of Gargoyles. (And why shouldn't they? :)

Welcome back Jaden! Hope you did well on your exams.

Stephen: $ Okay, will do. Thanks for mentioning what you want done with Jake to me, and reminding me of his jet's name. $

David G: Good points about how magic works in the Gargs Universe. I've always thought it works about the way you said, and written it that way in my fics. I'd like to add one important thing you implied but left out. Fay, wizards, and Halflings must all know magic spells before they can cast any of them. Sure, casting and manipulating magic comes easier to Fay and Halflings, but they still have to operate by the system's laws. If they don't know a spell for some magical effect, they can't produce that effect. Fay are probably taught magic from birth, and we know the Unseelie Halflings were brainwashed, so they both knew a lot of spells. Most Halflings and wizards have to have a teacher or study a spellbook for their magics, and both can be hard to find, so they don't have it as easy. Judging by what we saw in the series, all spellcasters have to know exactly what they want to do with magic (i.e. what spell they want to cast) before they can call upon it, and then draw upon and manipulate magic in the right way for what they want without a single mistake. They can't just will an effect into existence. Yes, they can seem to on occasion, but I have a theory about that. I think that wizards need to speak spells in order to cast them, due to their being unable to naturally call upon magic. They have to invoke it with conduits and words. Fay and Halflings can call upon magic naturally, so they don't need to speak the words. They can think them, and manipulate the magics how they choose, based on the spell they are thinking in their mind, to produce the desired effect. Speaking the spell, however, is sometimes necessary for more complex spells like the one the Weird Sisters cast on Macbeth and Demona or what Titania did for Coldfire and Coldstone. It can also make the call for magical energy stronger, and the resulting magical effects stronger as well. Only fay as powerful as Oberon or Madoc can will powerful complex spells into effect with thoughts alone, most fay need to speak the words. Of course if they're specialized in certain effects, like tricks or weather, then they have little problem casting those spells by thought alone. I think this theory could work in the Gargoyles Universe, I know it does in my fics. Any comments?

Atilla: That's nice. :)

Umbriel: I miss him too. Glad his memory lives on in the minds of some characters, especially Banshee.

Blue: I agree with your comments about the room's atmosphere. The things you mentioned about it are the main reasons I like this place so much. :)

SJ: You're right about Cable, he is little more than a big guy with a gun. I never cared much for the guy myself. Major Kickass characters like him can be fun to watch sometimes, but you have to make them something more than just a big gunman in order to give them real staying power and make their character cool. Hope I've done that with Seth, the resident Big Guy with a Gun of my fics.

I also agree with you about Clinton. He has done a terrible thing in siccing his goons on the entertainment industry like he has. I shudder to think of all the good shows like Buffy that may get censored and/or banned because of this. The majority is supposed to rule in this country, so why does the minority so often have control of the government? What about all the people who like to watch violence and haven't gone crazy, huh, Clinton? Why do you and so many of the other people in our government have to keep blaming the tools and the media for bad things instead of the perps? <sighs> I pray to God that this new stupid censorship campaign will have little lasting effect, and that the Littleton fallout blows over soon. Yes, the event was bad. Yes, it happened. And yes, we know who is to blame. The kids who did it, and nothing and no one else. No wonder most of the American people have lost faith in the government if its officials can't udnerstand that. Please people, learn the lesson! Let the evil stop with the perps!!! <sighs again>

Jarjar: We're suppsoed to learn to admire the guy? Okay, Lucas, you've given yourself a very difficult goal. Good luck with it. Right now I don't see how this guy could possibly be admired by anyone, hope you have a good story for making it possible. I suggest having Jarjar mature a lot, get a speech therapist, and go through a lot of dangerous situations that he must survive through skill and intuition instead of dumb luck. Above all, he must stop goofing around. He must be more than comic relief, because people never admire characters who are just that and nothing more. You're going to need some very good scripts for this, Lucas, ones much longer and better than what Phantom Menace had. Again, good luck. You're really gonna need it. (Personally, I think Lucas also needs to stop thinking he's God and that the fans will like whatever he produces no matter what. He needs to lower his optimism some, and stop expecting everything to go the way he wants to. In other words, he needs to get his mind back in the real world and his head out of his ass.)

Robby: I agree that WB has no right to be mad. I think it's a kind of poetic justice how they paid a million dollars for the rights to show the ep, and now people can see and are seeing it without turning on their station because of the mistake they made. The WB executives get no sympathy from this Buffy fan. :)

Oh, and btw, you're wrong about Jean and Scott. I like them, or more accurately, used to like them. In the first X-Man comics, and the Fox TV show, their characters were interesting and cool. However, once the comics got new writers who made Jean and Scott stale characters with all their angst and repeated lovey-dovey stuff, I stopped liking them. I still like the old Jean and Scott, I just hate the way their characters have turned out in the present comics. I wish they had been developed in a more realistic way that made them more characters and less annoyances. Do you get what I'm saying? Needless to say, I hope to handle and develop Scott and Jean's characters much better in my fics (though since they're minor characters now and are largely going to stay that way, I can't really do much).

Jackal: I have a request for you. If all you're going to send me is annoying chain letters and stupid "intelligence tests," I would like to please be deleted from your mailing list. I don't like that stuff coming into my e-mail. Now if you have something valuable to send me, like feedback for my fics, questions I might be able to help you answer, and so on, feel free to send it. I will be glad to recieve messages like that. But the stuff you've sent so far is not appreciated, please stop sending it to me. And please don't think I don't value you as a friend.

That's all for now. Good night, everybody.

**BACK TO RP**

Doug returns to reading over the list of Guod's possible forces. "Hmm," he muses, "Guod may have the casts of Histeria, King of the Hill, PJs, Rug Rats, Nick's Doug, Home Movies, and Family Guy. I hope he does have them, I hate their shows and would enjoy hurting all those characters a lot." The Ravens' leader indulges in a maniacal laugh.

The display switches back to Thailog's base, where the bad guy leaders are further discussing Dr. Edison's new invention. "Won't the enemy Borg be shielded against sound weapons?" asks Asil. "This may not be as good as we think." "I don't think we need to worry," says Jerec. "Guod is shielded against sound weapons, and it got him. Right?" "Right," Guod says. "My Borg use the most advanced defensive technologies that exist. That includes shielding for weapons based on sound. This 'TechnoNuke' easily penetrated the shields we have." "Its waves work like a sound-based drill," says Edison. "No shielding can block them for long, they will penetrate any barrier in their way." "Hmm," Guod replies. "Great. Now I'm worried about this weapon affecting my Borg as bad as it affects Borg if we use it against them." "Don't worry," Edison grins. "You were just exposed to the effects of TechnoNuke without it killing you, that means you've assimilated to it and it can no longer harm you or the Borg that belong to your Collective, who naturally assimiliated to TechoNuke along with their head. So you have nothing to fear from my new invention. That which does not kill Borg makes them stronger, remember?" Thailog glares at him. "What? So we can only use this weapon once?" "Once will be enough!" Edison shouts. "You know how Wilek's Borg are all controlled and constantly in contact with their queen?" "Yes," says Zale. "So?" "So these waves are designed to be naturally transmitted along any recieving device that picks them up. Guod wasn't using one when I shot him with the waves, so they weren't transmitted to the rest of his collective. However, if the recievers Wilek's Borg are using pick up the waves, and they should because they're almost always turned on,..." "The whole Collective will hear them and be affected!" Guod finishes. "That's brilliant!" "Yes," Edison nods. "I estimate TechnoNuke can destroy Wilek's entire Collective after about thirty minutes of exposure. You see, the Collective's members will explode in succession as more powerful techno-organisms take more exposure to destroy. The newer and lesser members will explode first, then the greater ones, and on up to the large starships in the enemy fleet that use Borg technology, the enemy's Borgified space station, and finally the enemy Borg Queen herself. None of them will be able to act in any significant way against us while affected, their bodies will be too busy dancing to my invention's tune." "We'll have to keep this as a surprise weapon," Thailog says with a smile. "After all, we don't want the enemy finding out about it and somehow finding a way to avoid its effects. So we will not use it until we are forced to decloak and begin the assimilation of Earth, and then we will use it on the enemy Borg forces attacking our World Devestator, thus affecting and destroying the entire Collective. That will leave only the Ravens and their fellow biologicals to deal with." "Yes," Guod smirks, "and my Borg army can easily handle them." Thailog lets off a cruel chuckle. "You have done very well, Doctor. You're going to find something extra in your paycheck this week." "Oh goodie!" Edison cheers. He shares in the others' laughter as the screen fades out.

**TO BE CONTINUED, END RP**
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 02:11:21 AM
IP: pool-207-205-151-173.dlls.grid.net

***** Spoilers for Aftermath 1 and Crossroads 2 *****
I'm shocked. O_o Something "nice" actually happened to the Cold duo. Unbelievable. But how long will it last. I do believe the writers are setting me up.

On the other hand, Titania did it for her grandson Alex, and not for the Cold duo. And fays seem to wield their magic without ill effect. So maybe there won't be that much of a price to pay for the Cold duo - aside from the fact that they're now comparatively helpless against Coldsteel. Besides, the Cold duo paid their price in advance. Being dismembered and nearly destroyed in the process of protecting Alex has got to count for something.

Well despite the fact that the restoration of Desdemona and Othello seemed a little too good to be true, I liked the happy ending of "Aftermath1" and hope it doesn't all fall apart in "Aftermath2". It sort of counterbalanced what went on in Timedancer "Crossroads2." We know Brooklyn and Sata will eventually be reunited, but Brooklyn may bounce around the timestream for ten years before being reunited with Sata ten years in her future. All we know is that Ariana and Graeme will be raised in the future. Do we know that Brooklyn was with them during that time?
***** End Spoilers *****

David G. > Interesting discussion of magic you wrote. Thanks for taking the trouble.

Todd> Coldstone saying "Dawn came, and then oblivion." That line bothered me a lot too. I preferred to think that he simply couldn't remember where he'd been.

Jenniren
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 01:56:23 AM
IP: user-2ivf557.dialup.mindspring.com

Thanks Kitaina (whipes tears away and goes to bed)
James Birdsong
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 12:42:42 AM
IP: dt045nd6.san.rr.com

<<Oh, what the hell, I'm willing to share if you are>>
Hehehe, 3-some?! Ohh yeah! And I have already had sex with the "sucker Jar Jar". Well.., as best I could anyway. Don't worry..., I did it with a group of friends watching. I'd like to have sex with a gargoyle too! Angela..., yeah.., I'd like to make my tongue sore by... Opps... nevermind. Brooklyn..., yes. I mean, come on.., you can tell by looking at him, he wants to or has ventured to the "other side".

Kaless- Aww..., I remember his great tale!! I was inspired like a true Klingon should be! But Worf is cool too, "If you were any other man I would kill you where you stand!"
"Get off my bridge!" heheheee I like it was Picard goes...
"Noo!! NOOOOO!!!" and smashes his little ships..., I can watch that scene over and over again!! "NOOOO!!!" ::smash!!:: hehehee *rewind* "NOOOO!!!" ::smash!!:: hehehee
JackaL - [Jkal1127@aol.com]
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 12:35:34 AM
IP: spider-tq054.proxy.aol.com

I've been doing some thinking, and I have come to a conclusion. Don't stick is the YTV-7 rating. Instead follow the Comic Code Authority. We could enjoy the animation and visual action on the television series, but for a webfiction storyline, we might need more to capture our interest. The Comic Code is better for this type of thing.
Ash
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 12:32:09 AM
IP: yktnsk01d01040198.sk.sympatico.ca

SJ- NO ONE likes Jean or Cyclops. Why do you think they've been taken out of the lineup? And Cable is the son of Cyclops and Madlyne Prior who is Jeans clone from when she was Phoenix and killed and then Cable was taken by Askani into the far future to be cured of a virus and he was cloned to make the insidious Stryfe and it gets more interesting because when he came back he had a sister in Rachel, aka Phoenix 2, because technically... and thats now even getting into X-Man who came from Age of Appocolypse who... As I said, the current writers on the X-titles have no freakin' clue what they're doing. The scary part? Thats the toned down summary which ommits a lotta crap...

Hee hee.. Fun bit of news... Apparently Warner Brothers is *REALLY* ticked off that the season finale of Buffy is online since they paid something like a million bucks to air it. They're calling copyright infringement and are just ticked off as can be... But I feel no sympathy for them at all. Who's fault is it the episode had to go online to be seen in the first place? Hmm?
Robby
Wednesday, June 9, 1999 12:09:40 AM
IP: spider-ta052.proxy.aol.com

****BEGIN RP!!!****
"Reverend Attila?!?!" SJ exclaims in pleasant surprise. "What are you doing here?"
Attila, who at the present time was being given a lavish back rub by Kari, took a moment in answering. "Well, I figured that you could use all the help you could in taking down Eisner. That's why Roy and I came to help. What do you say?" The cat eyed the Hounds suspiciously; they seemed a little too eager to come forward and greet their new feline ally...
SJ glanced at the armored warrior. "Sure. The more the merrier. I have the feeling what we'll face in there won't be too pleasant."
"No, it won't," Giles added. "Vampiric princes are notoriously powerful, and Eisner will be no exception."
"Right," SJ said. He looked at his friends and allies: Kari, the Hounds, Wilek, Miriam, Argent, Jewel*D, Giles, the Lion, Venrik, Roy Disney and Attila, Mambi, and of course, the Scarecrow. "Well guys, here we go....I'd just like to thank those of you who have joined to help me find out where my dad is...that's very important to me. But more importantly, we're here to stop Eisner's evil--"
"And get my kingdom back," Scarecrow added.
"--AND wrestle Oz from his hands. The battle isn't going to be easy. But together, we'll make it through! Ready? Alright, folks: IT'S BOOTY-KICKIN' TIME!"
Resolved to win at any cost, the heroes advance upon the open gates into the darkness within....None of them, however, realize that now, just a few feet behind them, shadowey shapes follow their ever movements, into the black halls of the palace....
***TO BE CONTINUED!!!****

Bad day today. Got one wicked case of poison ivy today, and it's killing me not to scratch.

****WARNING: LITTLE RANT HERE****
What the hell is our President doing? I just heard today that he's authorized a million dollar probe into the entertainment industry, and has let loose his dogs (the Federal Trade Commission and the Justice Department) upon Hollywood. This is unfreakin'believable. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it many of his Hollywood buddies that helped him get elected? Now he's stabbing them in the back.
God, how inept is this man? Once again, as he's done time and time again, he changes position to satisfy the minority. How many times can it be said: MOVIES, MUSIC, AND VIDEO GAMES DON'T KILL PEOPLE, CRAZY NUTJOB PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!! But no, let's play Big Brother and screw over the entertainment industry. Now, I'm not exactly defending them; I know the industry isn't exactly known for consisting of innocent little lambs. But to attack them is assinine in the least. THIS is why great, entertaining shows like Buffy will get pulled or censored. Because no one in the goverment can understand the fact that the industry doesn't make one goddamn soul pick up a gun and kill someone. But no, as soon as someone mentions the word "violence" in association with a movie, or a song, or a video game, that product is evil. This is nostalgic of that book "Seduction of the Innocent" way back in the forties/fifties that said comic books made your brains rot (it's true--some genius claimed that the rise in juvenile crime was do to good ol' comics). That was BS, so is this. God, if we followed this new line of thought, we'd become a nation of pansy-asses. Face it: life, by it's very nature, is violent. We have to kill just to stay alive. But massacres like Littleton don't happen cause some little dipsh!t got off on playing Doom.
Christ, what is bill thinking? God, somebody hire him another fat intern, maybe that'll get Bubba's mind off this whole mess.
***END RANT***

Goddamnit.
Well, JackaL will be happy. According to recent interviews by Lucas, not only will JAR JAR return for episodes 2 and 3 (what, didn't get you fill of clumsy pratfalls or fart jokes in TPM, George?), but his role will be LARGER. Lucas claims we will come to "admire" Jar Jar. His own words.
Oooooh God. Look, Jar Jar was annoying. Not as much as I thought he'd be....but enough. His character has no further purpose. Don't try to turn him into Chewbacca, cause frankly, that'd be insulting. I've always thought the Wookies were cool; Gungans, however, pale in comparison.
Here that sound folks? That sound like a heavy stone falling a great distance? That's my hope that episodes 2 and 3 will actually be better movies than TPM...

X-Men Characters: I never liked Phoenix. Jean is...well, an okay character, I guess. Way too much angst with Cyclops (and they fall into that whole soap opera melodrama far too often--"Scott, I love you!" "Jean! I can't bear to ever lose you!" Puh-lease). But to make her suddenly, a god...I didn't like it. Phoenix was actually pretty annoying at times, and for my money only got really interesting when she turned evil. God-like characters have to be handled very carefully; you can't have them do too much, yet they still have to have a presence. Unfortunately, she wasn't handled that way.
As for Cable...I've never really like him. Blah blah blah, so he's Jean and Scott's kid. He always seemed sort of a Terminator rip-off to me (think about it--he's at least partially cybernetic, aka a cyborg; he comes from a twisted, evil future; his purpose in this timeline is to destroy the root of the evil, Apocalypse, before he can conquer the world). His background is far too complicated. He seems to me to be little more than a Big Guy With Guns--a comic book character with rather large muscles, who happens to have an arsenal of artillery each larger than one of his limbs, and spends most of the issue using said muscles and guns to blow the hell out of everything (but then again, he was created by Rob Liefeld, who knows little about making any other kind of character other than the Big Guy With Guns stereotype). I always root for Apocalypse whenever he fights Cable; he's far more interesting and fun in my book.

Oh, and um, XENOGEARS!!!
I still have no clue as to what it is, but somebody seems to like it a lot.

Gargs on Ice: That idea is too humiliating it's pathetic. But what if it wasn't just guys in costumes?
Lex: "Broadway, I'm freezing! My feet are going numb!"
Broadway: "You're cold? I'm seriously beginning to debate a warmer change of wardrobe. This loincloth ain't doing much!"

Anthony Edwards: I think I can do him a little better. Edwards is on "ER", which also happened to guest star Clancy Brown, aka Hakon and Wolf, on more than one occasion.

Bruce Campbell: Easy too. Bruce was in the movie "Congo" for all of 5 minutes...but that movie starred Tim Curry, aka MY DAD!!! :)
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:52:20 PM
IP: 207-172-44-199.s199.tnt3.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

James Birdsong: I'm very sad Umbriel's gone. I always liked the guy.

Sorry for the double post, had to answer that quick question. Later,
Kitainia
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:47:08 PM
IP: pool-207-205-151-173.dlls.grid.net

Yes Kitania, at least you remember him. Are you sad as me that's he's gone or not?
James Birdsong
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:42:38 PM
IP: dt045nd6.san.rr.com

**RP HERE**

Kitainia carries Ruth back to the Onslaught, and explains what happened to her worried friends. "I hope the Admin can take care of that WF3 guy," says Jammer. "If he were to get unassimilated, or somehow take on his own intelligence and initiave, he could come after us again. And that would be a bad thing." "Yes," Kitainia says. "It would. It would also be bad if Wilek Fieger II were to overcome Dark Mage Wilek's domination of him, or DMW were to go bad again. Safeguards to prevent them attacking him or not, I'm worried that Wilek is surrounding himself with too many evil clones." "Let's worry about ourselves, okay?" Shauna suggests. "Let Wilek's lady watchdog worry about him." "Careful Miriam doesn't hear you call her that, Shaun," Jammer says. Kitainia rolls her eyes and turns to make a quick post.

**END RP 1ST HALF**

Hi everyone. Thanks for the continued welcome-backs. Two bits of good news today. One, I got a new job working at the local Blockbuster. Hope I encounter few idiot customers during my time there. Two, Doug finally recieved Traveler's promised feedback last night, so he's happier than he's been in a while. And when he's happy, I usually am, too. As I am now. :) Hope everyone else also had a good day.

Pistoff: First, I wanted to let you know that I read and enjoyed your Oberon vs. Jack Hammer fic. Your writing's really improving as you go, keep at it please. Hope Truce is posted soon. Second, can you please stop the disgusting DC continual death soon? He deserves it, but I'm sure it's grossing out a lot of people in the CR.

Argent: Did I have fun without you? Yeah, I had a little. But I'm having more now that I'm back.

Airwalker, Aris: Good points about the Cold-Duo's switch. I agree that they changed their names a little too quickly, and Titania's saving them was a little too convienent. But I liked seeing both in the story, and good reasons have been stated for things to happen the way they did, so I have no problem with the changes made by the TGS Staff. Good points about Titania's reasons for saving them, Theresa and Valentine, and thanks to Valentine for the good reasons for Coldstone's quick name change, too.

Welcome to Forrest, Oracle, and any other newcomers to the CR!

Heather, Jaden, Arianna: Missed you all. Welcome back!

Airwolf: Thanks for telling us the station, Glimmer. Too bad we don't have cable and thus can't watch that show. We both used to enjoy it. Oh well.

Gargs on Ice: So it was part of a Mickey Mouse skit? Rats, I was hoping they'd given the Gargs their own storyline to act out in their ice show. They do deserve it, after all. If Gargs on Ice ever becomes a show unto itself, I hope it gets a good storyline (preferably written by Greg) and comes to Austin so Doug and I can go see it easily. :)

Coyote: Hope you start feeling better real soon. Good luck with your car and WCC.

David G: Good explanation of magic in the Gargoyles Universe. I can hardly wait to see the two additional sections you are adding. Hope you post them in here soon.

Rev. Atilla: Hey you. <long pat>

Blue: Thanks for your good comments on the room's atmosphere. I completely agree with them. Also, congrats on beating Soul Caliber with Mina, and thanks for the Fleur info. Hope her exams end soon so she can come back.

James Birdsong: Uh, don't you mean Umbriel? Try to get the names right, please!

Shogun Raptor: Bruce Campbell? Okay, he guest-starred on X-Files one time, as a demon. Ed Asner has also guest-starred on X-Files, as a ghost.

That's all for now. Later!!

**BEGIN SECOND HALF OF RP**

Kitainia finishes her post just as Orion finishes healing Ruth's wounds. The cleric waves some smelling salts under her nose, and the young Iowan girl comes around. "Oh man," she says, "that guy really got me. Maybe I made a mistake in coming here with you guys." "You shouldn't have gone running off like that, Ruth," says Keith. "You were practically inviting an attack." "Hey!" Gubio yells at the ninja. "She didn't know that WF3 guy was in town. None of us did until Djedi shot him down and Rho faxed us a warning. Ruth had already run off by then." Ruth sighs heavily. "I just wanted to look around. There's so much cool stuff here. Giant spaceships, Borg troopers and scuttlers, Daleks, I wanted to see it all." "You should have gotten an escort just in case," Shap tells her. "Even the most well-defended fortress can be penetrated by the enemy." Ruth nods. "So I learned." Kitainia grins and motions to her. "Come on, I'll show you around the town and introduce you to everyone. I don't have anything better to do." Ruth smiles gleefully. "Alright! Thank you, Kitainia." "Anytime. Now come on, what do you want to see first?"

Meanwhile, in Thailog's secret base, the bad guy leaders are gathering for a meeting. "An obstacle to our current takeover plan has appeared," Thailog says. "A huge force that outnumbers and technologically outclasses ours has gathered in Crown Point, Iowa. They are very close to our World Devestator assimiliation machine and could attack it at any moment. We need to find a way for Guod to effectively resist their attack." "I can't do that now," Guod says, stepping out of a portal into the room. "There's just way too many Borg in Crown Point, and they're too heavily armed. Not only that, none of them went off to meet the Star Destroyers we have approaching Chicago. The whole force remained!" "So you need some way to beat them then," says Asil. Guod nods in agreement. "I could conjure up all manner of horrible magical monsters to fight them," says Kharsus, "but they could all get assimilated by the Borg and then be turned against us. Not only that, any powerful spell I cast to destroy the enemy Borg will only work on them once due to their collective's assimilation power. I know of no spell that could take them all out at once." "God Almighty," Zale breathes. "I've read all the documentation on them, and it seems these Borg are just too powerful for us. We may have to abort our mission, gentlemen. The good guys have on their side an invincible and nearly all-powerful force." "Hold on!" Dr. Edison shouts in his high-pitched voice. "I have a new invention that might help!!!" "What?" Asil asks skeptically. "Since when did any of your inventions ever help us? Your clone soldiers have failed us miserably so far!" "This one will work better than they did!" the mad scientist declares. "Fine," says Thailog. "Tell us what it is, then. Maybe we'll use it, if it sounds good." "The invention is called..." Dr. Edison pauses dramatically. "TechnoNuke."

**THIS THREAD WILL BE CONTINUED IN DOUG'S UPCOMING POST, BUT FOR NOW END RP**
Kitainia - [dierdre34@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:41:03 PM
IP: pool-207-205-151-173.dlls.grid.net

Robby> I always thought the idea was to get it in as few steps as possible and six was just the maximum number. I guess there are all sorts of ways to play the game.

Shogun Raptor> You can also link Bruce Campbell to Ed Asner through the X-files.
Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:34:54 PM
IP: ns4-14.viptx.net

Coyote> well, you win, but I was hoping for some other ones *awards the cybercookie retroactively* okay, who else wants to give it a shot?

shogun raptor
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:30:22 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

Gaaahhh ... I'm an idiot ... Bill Faggerbakke was the voice of the oafish soldier in HOND so that does it right there ...
Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:23:50 PM
IP: 06-111.009.popsite.net

Shogun: Does that mean I can win the cookie retroactively? Go to my first one this week, knock Lucy Lawless off the top of it and you have ...

BRUCE CAMPBELL ... GO!
Bruce Campbell was in "Escape from L.A." with Kurt Russell, who was in "Executive Decision" with Steven Segal, who was in "Under Siege II: Dark Territory" with Thom Adcox-Hernandez.
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:20:28 PM
IP: modem30.i-is.com

And yes, I know Mulgrew is a ST actor, but She hasn't been used yet
shogun raptor
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:14:36 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

*enters, dressed in full top hat and tails, a hush falls over the crowd as the six degrees virtuoso begins*
"Wierd al Yankovic....GO!
Wierd Al was in "UHF" with Michael Richards who played on Seinfeld with Jason Alexander who did a guest shot on voyager with Kate Mulgrew who does the voice of Titania
*takes a bow* Y'know, we should archive some of the more unusual one, BTW, in the spirit of the Joe Bob Briggs Challege, I am issuing my own cyber-cookie contest...Link Bruce Campbell to Gargoyles (I am a HUGE army of darkness fan)
shogun raptor
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:13:32 PM
IP: mia1-wc2.atlas.digex.net

James - my name is David G. Arlington is where I live. I'm not (quite) egotistical enough to believe the city would die without me.

Anyway, I have the updated, expanded, spell-checked version of the Magic thing done. I can't send it from here because, for some wierd reason, my Browser won't do attachments. I'll send it from work in the morning.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 10:46:00 PM
IP: pppa22-resalefortworth3-1r1006.saturn.bbn.com

**reenters the room, sits down in the big chair.**

Okay, now that I'm back ...

Interview: Oh, how I wish this interview had been more recent! (latest it could've been is May 1997, due to the mention of "Spawn" coming out soon) But I *did* certainly enjoy it. :)

Glimmer: I believe it's supposed to be films and television shows, in the case of "6 Degrees of Gargoyles." You limit it to movies when you're doing Kevin Bacon. Myself, I like to give myself the added challenge of trying to create links **without** resorting to Star Trek paths, since that's just way too easy!

And speaking of which ...
MADONNA ... GO!
Madonna was in "A League of their Own" with Rosie O'Donnell, who was in "Exit to Eden" with Dana Delany, who appears regularly in "Superman" which has occasional guest appearances by Ed Asner, who played Hudson. (BTW, his "Superman" character? **chortle** Granny Goodness.)

Or you could've done Michael Dorn, too ... but that's a Trek actor. Too easy. :)

Starsinger: I'll be arriving probably around 2:30 at the hotel or so, roomie. Look for me! :)

Christine: Hmm ... the Tony Jay link, you have your choice, because he was also in "ReBoot" with Paul Winfield (Robbins/Cyrus).

**slaps self on head** Waitaminit! Almost forgot, Paul Winfield is *also* a Trek actor! (Captain Terrell in STII).

**sigh** Ah well ...

**plants chin firmly in hand and fixates on the candle's flame again**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 10:26:11 PM
IP: modem30.i-is.com

Okay computer... WORK!

Yesterday this thing cut me off from posting more times than I care to count... Grr... So now I don't remember everything I was gonna say... Ah well... I had a big ol' rant on the third season of Dragonball because of the truly lame voices and translations...

Airwalker- Your example of Phoenix in X-Men coming along and fixing everything with a wave of her hand isn't quite accurate, as she screwed up a lot more than she helped. She killed and hurt and brought misery, And the battle against Phoenix left Jean Grey dead. And Chris Claremount woulda left her dead too. Blasted lousy modern X-Men writers came up with a lame excuse to bring her back.. It wasn't Phoenix they killed... Of coruse, these are the same writers who convulted Cable's timeline so much it litterally takes a page to summeriza it... Ah well... I get the point you were trying to make. Having godlike characters in the way is no fun. But its a ball when they go evil! (Hee... The X-Men fan I am at heart got to me.)

Gyre- Elisa may get into a lot of trouble because of Goliath, but love is a HUGE reward, not a non-reward. Heck, love is the best reward in the world as far as I'm concerned.

Aaron- Gold Digger 50 is out? Cripes, I gotta go to my comic store tommarrow! Also, the whole point of the six degrees game is to make it as difficult as possible, and have it be, SIX degrees. Thats why we try to avoid Trek actors, its wasy too easy.

Mandolin- Of course, John Travolta *IS* Vinnie, but no one will admit it.

SJ- Yes having the Star Wars universe so closely tied together stinks, but it helps a little to see and think that it has always been Lucas' intention for Anakin to make Threepio.

Kitainia- Uh, late Welcome Back!

**RP WHICH I WANTED TO DO TWO DAYS AGO... STUPID COMPUTER**

Aboard the Dark Star Two, Dis Connect feeds his giant hampster Calvin. Calvin used to be Lonny's giant pet hampster, but since Lonny's dead, DC has it now. Suddenly, warning lights flash, and DC investigated the cause. "What the HFIL? It can't be..."

Elsewhere, a portal opens, and Dis Connect steps through, fully regenerated after that explosion that blew him up good a few weeks ago. "Ah, its good to be home!"

And, at Disneyworld, Jim's party is finally ending. (Mostly because all of the RPing guests are gone.) Jim hasn't really noticed, and most of his attention is on the Tina girl he met earlier.
"So you have your own private army of giant anime style mecha?"
"Yup! Cool huh?" Jim brags. "I also have a sister who is the avatar of a goddess!"
"That's pretty... Neat I suppose."
"Yeah. So, what about you?"
"Me?" Tina struggles for a moment. "Nothing special really... Why?"
"I was just kinda wondering... Because you seem VERY familiar to me... Like that were rat that kidnapped me and took me to Lonny last week..."
"Heh heh... You don't say..."
Robby
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 10:13:30 PM
IP: spider-wj052.proxy.aol.com

TODD - I never thought that Coldstone's comment "Dawn came, and then.... Oblivion." meant that he didn't actually gain access to the afterlife. I think that he just didn't have any memories because you either live in this world or the next one. If he did remember the afterlife it would prevent him from being able to live his life here. The memories would haunt him. That's why I think he didn't have any memories except Oblivion.

It's kind of like the Star Trek:TNG episode where Kaless (the founder and basically prophet of Klingon society) was cloned. When he was asked by Worf what Stovokor, Klingon heaven, was like, Kaless said that while he is here he has no memory of that place. I think that the same explination could hold true for Coldstone. Heaven is supposed to be ultimate bliss. Can you imagine experiencing that and then being forced back to a mockery of life with those memories intact? It could be enough to drive a person mad.

Also I'm sure that the whole ordeal of being brought back and put in a cyborg body had to have caused some memory loss. Even as far as LEGION, he was saying that his memories were clouded and that he was "lost". Coldfire and Coldsteel may have escaped this because they were really accidental after-effects of his resurrection but he bore the brunt of the magic that brought them back. It's possible that he has some major memory loss that may never come back and massive confusion that may never get fixed.
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 10:08:48 PM
IP: 15.new-york-53-54rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

Gosh, there's always so much to read in here when I've been gone for a few days!

Aaron > actually, if you count Salli Richardson's guest spot on an episode of ER, you get the Anthony Edwards one right away. Also, I _have_ a stuffed Scar for sale, mint condition with tags, only $100.00 ; )

Gunjack > uh, you do realize you're supposed to be the _good_ guys, right? ; )

All these connections are so weird ... here's one that's _all_ voice acting ...
Demi Moore -- GO!
Demi voiced Esmeralda in HOND with Tony Jay's Frollo who also voices Dr. Lipschitz on Rugrats where Cree Summer voices Susie Carmichael.

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 09:26:12 PM
IP: 05-045.009.popsite.net

Yes you Arlington. John you remember Madoc's nephew I hope
James Birdsong
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 09:20:56 PM
IP: dt045nd6.san.rr.com

Darn, forgot to mention this (apologies for yet another post)...

Kitainia (or Doug, or whoever was wondering where Fleur was)> I received an email from Fleur a few days ago. She's been very busy lately with exams and such, and hasn't had time to drop by. Hopefully things'll lighten up for her soon. :-)
Blue Caeru
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 08:37:40 PM
IP: spider-tn074.proxy.aol.com

*walks into the CR, in a more somber mood than in her previous post*
I know this is sudden, but I just want to tell you all how much I appreciate you and this comment room. This is one of the only places on the net I've encountered where people actually try to remain civil to one another while exchanging widely different opinions and RPing. Maybe it's the general "atmosphere" of this comment room or something, but this is truly one of the most open, tolerant, friendly places I've been to. Sorry, I know I should have said this last week when the CR became one year old. Anyway, thank you all, and I really enjoy reading everyone's posts.
*walks out of the CR, feeling awkward after getting emotional so suddenly*
Blue Caeru
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 08:30:29 PM
IP: spider-tn074.proxy.aol.com

Glimmer - Yes, I got it. That was quick. I don't have a copy of that story right now. It's on a disk my computer can't read anymore. I'll have to see if I can get onto an older PC. Otherwise, I'm going to scream, cause that was the first story that I ever wrote that I also liked a year later.

James Birdsong - I suppose you meant me?

Sure, I can send you a copy. You could just copy and paste it out of the CR, too. If you don't mind waiting for a while, I'm going to add a section on the actual mechanics of spellcasting, and one on Faerie Artifacts.

In other news, recent comments on Elisa have given me enough inspiration to start thinking about a post analizing her as a character. I may do it at lunch tomorrow.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 08:09:10 PM
IP: pppb2-resalefortworth1-1r1035.saturn.bbn.com

This is merely a test...please ignore
Anonymous
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 07:53:12 PM
IP: ppp-90.ode.cableone.net

I don't have anything very interesting to say today so I'll just try my hand at Aaron's challenge...

JOE BOB BRIGGS...GO!
Briggs (real name John Bloom) was in Face/Off with CCH Pounder, who did the voice of Desdemona.
Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 07:42:22 PM
IP: ns4-14.viptx.net

**Glimmer Reappears with a sheepish grin**
Forgot my name, email, and color

**Glimmer is gone AGAIN**
Glimmer - [tlmccabe@worldnet.att.net]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 07:30:00 PM
IP: 104.las-vegas-01-02rs.nv.dial-access.att.net

**Glimmer stops lurking**
Sorry, real quick

David G.> Did you get my email? My computer is acting funny.

**Glimmer grabs a pitchfork and starts to chase Bill Gates**
Anonymous
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 07:27:15 PM
IP: 104.las-vegas-01-02rs.nv.dial-access.att.net

JAMES BIRDSONG - Who's Umbrisius? I don't recall anybody with that name in TGS anywhere.

COLDSTONE - I'm not commenting on the "Aftermath" debate, but it has reminded me of one element in "Re-Awakening" that I found, when I gave it a little thought, disturbing in its implications. When Xanatos and Demona revived him in their "Frankenstein" parody scene, Coldstone said about his memories from just before the Massacre, "Dawn came, and then oblivion." Does this mean that gargoyles don't get an afterlife, unless stuck in cyborg bodies? I sincerely hope not. (If "Ask Greg" ever goes up again, I'm going to have to ask Greg about it).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 07:05:56 PM
IP: 208-19-232-133.dialup-stl.primary.net

Arlington Whoa you're right, BRILLIANT. Can you please sent me an e-mail copy of that post about magic? if yes then DO!
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 06:30:58 PM
IP: dt045nd6.san.rr.com

Durid: Actually I think Vinny fits Big Joe better. They're closer in personality, and Vinny also turns up in the oddest places. :) Plus Vinny carries cool weapons, while Big Joe sells them. Thanks for reminding me about that guy.

More later.
Doug
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 06:12:26 PM
IP: pool-209-138-163-76.dlls.grid.net

I just read Aftermath. Am I the only one sad Umbrisius is dead?
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 06:10:59 PM
IP: dt045nd6.san.rr.com

Hey, today I finally beat "Soul Calibur" with Seung Mina (with only one buck!)... I think. How many stages are there? Eight? I had to leave right away to catch the bus after beating Inferno, so I don't know if I was supposed to advance to another level or what. Anyway, the "story" at the end had me LMAO, eliciting odd looks from a guy waiting for me to finish. It was so cheesy! Something like, "...exhausted, she collapses into the strong arms of Huang..." Ick, I don't like Huang, he just seems so smug. *l* Well, today I was very tense, so I played decently, IMHO. :-)

Six degrees with "Gargoyles": Gee, this game is kinda addictive. All these connections just randomly enter my head. Anyway, I got one:
Gene Hackman - Go!
Hackman was in "Mississippi Burning" with Willem Dafoe, who was in "The English Patient" with Ralph Fiennes, who was in "The Avengers" with Uma Thurman, who was in "Gattaca," which also starred Jayne Brooke, who is in the TV series (okay, it's not a movie, so I'm cheating :-P) "Chicago Hope," with Rocky Carroll, who is Derek Maza/Talon!

Magic in "Gargoyles": Some interesting points/theories are being brought up about it. I'll be reading those posts. :-)
Blue Caeru
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 05:52:49 PM
IP: spider-wg071.proxy.aol.com

Someone last week was requesting schedules so they could hook a ride from the airport. The Radisson has a shuttle from Love Airfield. It says so in their site info under amenitities.

I'm confirmed for Friday morning early. And will take shameless advantage of their good nature.

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 05:44:00 PM
IP: proxy-443.public.paix.webtv.net

RP WARNING!!
**Land of Oz.
As SJ, Kari, and the others are heading for Eisner, a man in chainmail with a shamrock crest and a sword with a Celtic cross hilt appears next to a familiar-looking cat.
"SJ, I have soemone who wants to help. Meet Roy Disney."
"Friends, I must battle Eisner, since his evil is my fault. I hired Mike in 84 to be CEO of Disney, so I bear the responsibility of his evil deeds. I will accompany you if you will have me."
Kari turns to SJ, "We need all the help we can get and that cat is soooo cute."
What will SJ decide?**
END RP for Now!!!

Sevarius Jr> I hope this helps. Meow.

Glimmer> I'm glad you like GB's use of Father Dowling. John Belairs wrote awhol book on parodies of Saints and such, including the communion pom-pom gun. I bet Belairs is Catholic :)

I take it you've seen GBs pic since you like the way he looks in a kilt. I bet a few ladies want to see him swimming at G99 :) On the other hand, I don't like swimming. Meow!! Hiss!!

Doug> I've heard about Genghis. Reminds me of my late brother George.

Joe Bob Briggs> he is owned by the nefarious Ted Turner who is a demon in RPs for this CR. Better yet, Turner owns a bunch of cartoons that feature Frank Welker, Jeff Bennet, and others.

Sonny Bono Go.

Sonny was married to Cher, who starred with Winona Ryder in Mermaids, who starred with Michael Keaton in Beetlejuice, who was in a movie with Brigitte Bako (One Good Cop).

Also Sonny was a House Republican while Fred Dalton Thompson was and still is a Republican Senator who played a cop in Curly Sue with James Belushi (Fang).

Macauley Culkin- Go!> Nooo! somebody stop me.
He starred in My Girl with Dan Akroyd who was in Blues Brotehr with John Belushi, who is the brother of James Belushi.

Wilek> Well, it might not be too bad. The villains could also go on strike, leaving the three to fight Rick Moranis as Dark Helmet, when the Spaceballs get the Phoenix Gate and invade Earth :)

That's all for now.
Reverend Attila - [RevAttila@aol.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 04:33:32 PM
IP: 141.164.133.103

Hey, Glimmer- E-mail me and tell me which story you want. Then I'll know which one to try to find.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 04:32:39 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

**Glimmer comes in to collect her prizes and spread mayhem**

David G.> Thanks for the goodies

IF YOU HAVE NOT CLICKED ON GREG "XANATOS" BISHANSKY'S LINK DO SO NOW!!!

Keith David is working on recording contract!?! Holy shades of Ebon. ;)
Also enjoyable: Greg Wiesman and Keith David idea for Gargoyles, The Musical on Broadway. And the Jalapeno story.

Doug> Airwolf is showing on TVLAND at 11:00am out here on the west coast. It was just added to the line up last week.

Aaron> Archangel(also a cool character) was played by Alex Cord. The best line from yesterday's ep was when Hawk asked Archangel what would happen if he lost his job. Archangel's reply, "I could always drive an icecream truck with one headlight."

Six degrees of seperation> So you really are supposed to limit yourself to movies? That's no fun. I like useing movies, tv shows, family ties, marriages, and shared time in corrections facility. It gives you so many more opptions.

Merlin providing names for the Cold Trio to Brother Edmund> I wonder... what if Brother Edmund wrote down the problems between Othello and Desdemona caused by Iago. And then, as the centuries past, a certain English playwrite comes a cross a journal belonging to an certain English preist who stayed for a time in a certain Scotish castle......

*Glimmer's older sister is reading over her shoulder and promptly beans her on the head with The Complete Works of Shakespeare and remindes her that she is supposed to be on her way to the bank*
All in good time sister dear.

Gargs on ice> I kid you not, it was real! Disney on Ice came to Vegas. Goofy brought Max and Mickey was useing a magic wand to recreate Disney movies on the ice. Max decided to try to use Mickey's wand and accidently brings forth demons(from Bald Mountain?) which the Gargoyles are summond to fight. And of course, the Gargoyles save the day. Oops, I mean night.
At least that's what the souvenir program said. And the more I think about it, the more I want to say it was in 1996. I could be wrong about the year. I've never been good with dates or names. Dang I wish my sister hadn't thrown the program away when she moved. It had a great picture. Hudson lost weight for the occasion.

People complaining about the Cold Duo's transformation> Would you rather have had the staff let them die?

"Insanity is not applicable to memory archives."-Selma, off of Timetrax
Yeah right

**Glimmer returns to a lurking state, humbly asking for forgiveness for misspelled words, a chaotic thought process, and possibly misquoting Selma**
Glimmer - [tlmccabe@worldnet.att.net]
Boulder City, NV
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 04:20:18 PM
IP: 59.las-vegas-01-02rs.nv.dial-access.att.net

Coldstone and Coldfire transfornation> I for one like the way they were transformend back into their original boddies and that they are alive again. Titania gave them a wish out of gratitude for saving her grandson and they wished to be hole again and she gave it to them. I think Meryt would love to be back into her original gargoyle form again and also to truely be alive again. And so Coldstone and Coldfire got their wish.

About the coldstell thing> Coldstone/Othello and Coldfire/Desdemona are not weaker than Coldstell. I do not think they are weaker because they have a Clan to help take him done.

Coldstone and Coldfire changeing their names> I do thin it was kind of fast of them to change their names so quickly. But sense they are truely alive again I can see way they did. I not not think they would like to be called Coldstone and Coldfire when they are alive again because cold is saying they are still dead and so I do not think they would like to be called Coldstone and Coldfire sense they are turely alive again. Also their names are the same from the Dark Ages maybe Xanatos found Brother Edmunds Journals. Probly Brother Edmund describe what the looked like.
Lawrence Stone - [Craft_Celtic@yahoo.com]
Chillicothe, Ohio, U.S.A.
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 04:03:14 PM
IP: chil-ras3-2-cs-24.dial.bright.net

***RP Entrance***
"That took longer than I thought, guess his regeration factor keep on fighting the burning." Looks down at the pile of ash that DC is and shrugs, "Now what do to with this...."
***End RP entrance***

Deuce> Whoops, forgot about that rule. It's been awhile, sorry.

Xenogears> Old reply, I know, but you did forget one chacter in there. Big Joe. That one he most closly resembles would be the jogger. Joe keeps on appearing in the oddest of places. The jogger tends to be in places where odd things are happening.

Oh, great, now I can't load any but the first post of this week!!!! DC!!!!!!!!!

***we are experancing technical diffculties, please stand by. (a crackling sound is heard in the backgroud)***
Durid the Druid - [durid@uswest.net]
MN, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 03:43:38 PM
IP: dialupb235.mpls.uswest.net

OK, let�s count it up for those just joining us. I�ve had four hours of sleep, there�re two
days worth of dirty dishes awaiting my attention, and I�ve got to go play a Pharisee in
front of a hundred screaming kids in a few hours. Life is good.:)

*Valentine�s eyes flicker rapidly as he downloads the last days postings into his cortex*

Re> Cold Duo - Ok, I haven�t even read the story yet, but I think of got the gist of it from
the twenty or so comments made so far. Guys, what is the big deal? let�s see if I
understand the sitch...

Coldstone and Coldfire are transformed back into living, breathing gargoyles thanks to
Titania�s intervention. So they didn�t earn it. Big deal. There are about three billion ways
to handle this while both enriching the overall story AND bringing Des and Oth further
into the limelight of good characterization. For example, why did Titania do it in the first
place? Ok, let�s look closer.

We have a farie queen of immense power. Merlin was only a halfling, yet he could still see
better than a thousand years into the future. How far, and in what detail, can Titania see?
Might she have done this knowing that the Duo would play a major role in a future event,
and that they would need their mortal forms? Or perhaps she granted them that gift to gain
�Pull� with the clan at a future date. As I see it, Titania is FAR too calculating to just dish
out the power on a whim like Oberon. No, I�d say that this is a setup for something big,
nasty, and unexpected. If nothing is ever easy, but you think you just got a free lunch, that
means you didn�t notice the hook...

Airwalker>If I had just spent five years as a animated stone cyborg or as a soul in a robot
I admit that I wouldn't exactly look fondly on those years. On the other hand, if I had
spent five years in that condition and then was suddenly restored to living flesh, I would
remember those years as a lesson of how precious life and feeling is so that I would
cherish it more than I had before the entire unliving experience. >> Ok, buddy, let�s kill
you, yank you out of the abyss, shove you into a malformed body with your dearest love
and your foulest hate, whiplash you through betrayel, grief, and insanity, let you stew in
your own personal version of Hell for a few years before finally releasing you into rellative
paradise, and then see how quick you are to hold on to the trappings...:)
Ya gotta remember, folks, that this is one HECK of a lot differant than the torment that
Demona puts herself through. This isn�t something that slowly occured over a thousand
years. It was lightning fast, with little or no time to cope with the stress. As soon as
Coldstone got the other two out of his head, he and Coldfire had to take off after Iago.
Also, I think it�s time to remember that while the Duo dosn�t have any truly distiguishing
characteristics, they have next to no LIMITATIONS either. Up until now, the Cold trio
have been side characters, and this plot twist simply reflects a move into center stage. All
three of them are primed for exploration. Were this whole mess taking place in my reality,
I think I�d use Iago to kill Dessy and let the heartbraek drive Othello insane. Heck with it,
the series needs more evil gargoyles...:)

Anyway, I�m sure you TGS authors out there already have something big planned, right
guys?

Right?

*Listens to the uncomfortable silence coming from the Writer�s Area*

Oh, dear...

Remeber, guys, that just because you didn�t have something worked into the plot when
you came up with it, doesn�t mean that you can�t work it in later. The only thing set in
stone is the fics you�ve already posted...
Gunjack Valentine
Dallas
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 03:31:00 PM
IP: spider-wm023.proxy.aol.com

Once again, my incredible idiocy manifests itself. I've read the first six episodes of Dark Ages� that's it. Sorry, Aris.
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 03:15:48 PM
IP: webcache.telusplanet.net

DEUCE> <<How convenient that Xanatos thinks along the same veins as Brother Edmund, mmm? *chortle*>>

Ahem... According to 'Dark Ages' it's "How convenient that Brother Edmund met Merlin who foretold the names Xanatos later picked."

Otherwise, we would also be wondering about how Edmund named the trio as Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway without having ever been to New York... :)
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 02:09:45 PM
IP: athe530-b021.otenet.gr

Hi folks. This is a really long post. I hope you enjoy it.

Magic in the world of Gargoyles:

A lot has been said recently about magic in Gargoyles, notably concerning the 'price' of magic. I thought it would be useful to try to work out the "rules" of magic based on what I have read in TGS and seen on the series.

First, there are two major types of magic user in the Gargoyles universe, mortals (hereafter referred to as wizards) and Faeries. Faeries and Wizards can pretty much do the same things, but do so in vastly different ways. Let's start with the basics. I think all magi use a common type of energy, but draw on different sources to get it. A rough analogy would be the electricity that runs technology. Electricity is the same everywhere, but you can get it by running steam engines, nuclear plants, or windmills, or by chemical reactions. Magical energy seems to be channeled into the physical realm and shaped into whatever form the spell requires. Some energy from the spellcaster opens the conduit that allows the magical energy to flow.

The differences between Faeries and Wizards are (a) how they open the conduit, and (b) how they shape the magic. Both of these differences come from one factor. Faeries ARE magic. They sense it intuitively, shape it easily, and thrive on it. Humans and Gargoyles have no natural connection to the magical world. For them to work magic requires lengthy preparation and precise focus. Thus, Faeries can 'improvise' spells with little effort, but if a Wizard doesn't know how to do something, he's pretty much stuck.

Faeries
Most of the Fey draw their power from Avalon, which is the magical equivalent of a really big generator/capacitor/battery array. The Children of Oberon have a virtually unlimited power supply. The only limits on their spellcasting are the limits of what their bodies can channel.

This is why Madoc was so weakened by being banished from Avalon. I think his banishment was more than physical. He was somehow 'cut off' from the Avalon power supply. Even when his ability to work magic returned, he had to draw upon the more limited power sources available on Earth. This may be why a mace to the head killed him when a harpoon to the chest didn't kill Oberon. Oberon was about to die, but had time to replenish his magic reserves and heal himself. That would also explain why Madoc needed a spell to get back into Avalon. If his total connection to the realm was broken, he wouldn't be able to just teleport in like everybody else does.

Note also that Faeries seem to have different talents. Puck is a trickster. Odin can manipulate the weather. One reason for this is that they 'specialized' when they were learning to work magic. Neither is as strong as Oberon overall, but they might get close to his strength in a single area. The other factor might be personal inclination. Since Faeries work their spells almost subconsciously, the kinds of things they do could be shaped by their personalities. Puck just wants to have fun. Odin is big and overbearing.

Wizards
Wizards don't have it so easy. Mortals have no way to sense magic. Like most of the laws of physics, we can't see them, only their effects. Wizardry is a type of science and technology for gaining access to magic. The 'science' is the rules and the spells that tell a wizard what he can do. At least on earth, wizards have to be careful since they can't really 'see' what they're doing. Spells are carefully constructed and formalized so they'll work the same way every time.

The 'technology' is the tools, talismans, and places of power that give a Wizard access to his 'fuel.' Just like a Faerie, a Wizard will use some of his own life-force to open the conduit, but he can't open it to Avalon unless he's been there or something. Magic is also less available on Earth. There's as much magic on Earth as on Avalon, but it's all bound up in various forms. Most of it flows along the Ley Lines, which crisscross the planet. Since mortals can only find magic by using magic, and even then they aren't as efficient as Faeries, they have found ways to work around their limitations. Talismans and Places of Power store up energy against need.

The Magus talked about the Grimorum as a "conduit" for his will to work on. I think he didn't fully understand what was involved. The Grimorum soaked up ambient magic, most of it absorbed through generations of Wizards who worked on the book, and worked as a capacitor for the Wizard using it. Each page was a small battery holding enough magic for the spell written on it. Even if a Wizard knew the spell by heart, he probably couldn't cast it without the book, since he wouldn't have enough power to make it work.

Many Talismans are dedicated to a specific purpose. Demona's bloodstone is only good for healing spells. Andrea's crystal makes the wearer more lucky. The pendants the Amazon clan wear only power one spell, the one that prevents a Gargoyle from sleeping in stone.

Places of Power are similar, but store up much larger supplies of energy which are replenished more slowly. They're useful for big, slow spells.

The other option for a Wizard who wants to cast a big spell is to time it properly. The energy flowing along the Ley Lines ebbs and flows so that at certain times it is more readily available. Really powerful spells require all three. The Wizard needs a personal talisman in a place of power at just the right time.

Halflings
I haven't forgotten the Halflings. Here's how I think their magic works. Halflings have the Faerie ability to sense magic, so they can open conduits intuitively the way Faeries can. The difference is that they don't have the connection to Avalon, so they're limited to the reduced level of power on earth. Further, Iron seems to restrict spellcasting somehow, so the iron in blood limits their potential. Possibly, if some evil geneticist created a halfling with copper based blood, his power level would increase. Of course, if he were ever seriously injured, he'd probably die since he'd have no blood donors.

The one problem with Halflings is that the Unseelie Halflings had the Faerie allergy to iron, while natural Halflings don't seem to have that problem. My theory is that Madoc designed his Halflings to be vulnerable to iron. If they weren't, and if they found a way to resist the Geas, they'd be dangerous to the Unseelie.

The Price of Magic.
Demona said to Angela that all magic comes with a price. With Wizardry, the price is paid in life-force. Small spells have a small price. Big spells have a big price. The Wizard has to give of his energies a percentage of the total cost of the spell. If that percentage of the total comes to all of the Wizard's lifeforce, he dies.

Faerie magic has a price, too, the price of being at the mercy of the Fey. Also, their magic seems to demand some kind of 'poetic justice.' I would hazard a guess that this is because their magic is shaped by imagination.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 01:56:07 PM
IP: pppa39-fortworthc8-3r5191.saturn.bbn.com

Greetings all... First, in answer to Aaron's challenge:

JOE-BOB BRIGGS... GO!

Joe-Bob is on "MonsterVision", which is owned by Ted Turner, who is married(?) to Jane Fonda, who went to Vietnam, which was visited by Jeffrey Robbins, who as you know is on the case of Gargoyles.

(Okay, it's not a _true_ "six degrees" sort of thing, but you have to give me credit for original thinking, eh?) :)

COMMENTS ON AFTERMATH> Well, I guess the critics had to nail me on something sometime. Seriously, I appreciate all of the feedback - good and bad - on this story. While I can't comment on the reasons behind what was done, I am surprised that the Colds Duo part has stirred up such a windstorm of comments. But, what I can say is that I appreciate the feedback, Aris and Airwalker.

Also, kudos and another boquette of flowers to my co-writer, Kathy. We did good!

DOUG> (Re: RP) Just Keep Jake in the background for a bit, until you all need to get after Thailog and Guod directly. Jess still has to recover, so the big guy needs to stay neutral for a bit. Besides, we still have to deal with Jess's asimilated sister... Oh! And Jake's hoverjet is called "Big-Bird".

Will talk to everyone later! Maintain and Check Six!
Stephen "Coldstone" Sobotka, Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Spokane, WA, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 01:32:31 PM
IP: m79.ieway.com

I think I can get Travolta to Gargs quicker.

Travolta was in Pulp Fiction, written by Quentin Tarantino.
Tarantino also wrote Natural Born Killers, which had Rachael Ticotin in it. This game's completely pointless, but it is fun, no? I'll give a big cyber-cookie to anyone who can connect Joe Bob Briggs with Gargs.

Later.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:59:24 PM
IP: ppp-215.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

****RP!!!!****
"HMMMMM" mumbles the evil scientist. "Hades isn't performing as well as I had expected. Maybe I should begin work on a replacement. That link was an excellent idea, but needs work, hypnosis perhaps or mind contr...." His voice trails off as he begins his work.
****END RP!!!****

Hey everybody! Mesa back!
For the past few weeks I've hardly had time to even turn on my computer. Oy!

Timedancer ep-Ok now that one was very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very (have you ever noticed that "very" is easy to type?), very, very SAD!

You know during Darkest Hour pt. 2 I almost expected Vinnie to appear and say "Oh man! Why does this always happen to me?" HA! He should be so lucky for that to always happen to him.

Well, got class soon.
See ya later!

Jaden - [smokey1@silcom.com]
Los Alamos, CA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:50:49 PM
IP: cache2.avtel.net

I screwed up that last post. That's supposed to say I wanted see *Owen* do the spock line at Oberon, not Hudson.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:44:51 PM
IP: ppp-215.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

Kitania> Welcome back!

John Travolta to Gargs, Go!

Travolta was in "Get Shorty" w/ Rene Russo
... who was in "Lethal Weapon 3" w/ Mel Gibson
... who was in "Conspiracy Theory" w/ Patrick Stewart
... who, of course, was on ST:TNG with Jonathan Frakes.

This has now ended a fairly pointless post. :)
Mandolin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:14:05 PM
IP: 131.92.161.117

No weird entrance today, too tired.

Hmmmm. Anthony Edwards to Gargs GO!

Edwards was on ER with George Cloony, who was in From Dusk Til Dawn with Juliette Lewis, who was in Natural Born Killers with Rachael Ticotin. I too went through a phase where all I did was play this game.

Glimmer> I mostly remember the boss on Airwolf was a cool guy with an eyepatch named Archangel. Does anyone know who played him?

<The mouse will stoop to any level for merchandising> But they never do the right stuff, do they? Where're the life-sized gargoyle stand-ups and the stuffed Scar I ordered?

Pistoff> Thanks. I just could not for the life of me remember Ron Pearlman's name. As to Michael Wincott, if he was their leader, he just had that weird accent, kind of like Christopher Lambert, that you can't really place anywhere, so I guessed French.

As for putting Bad Guys in LA, that was sort of a lame joke about Snake Plisskin. "After New York, where do you send semi-reformed criminals on covert missions?

SJ> <No way I'm doing a seven foot reptile> Well, not that one, anyway, gargs being sorta reptillian after all.

Robby> <If I were human, I believe my response would be: Go to Hell. If I were human.> I always wanted to see Hudson say that. Preferably to Oberon.

Gunjack> (Does Hudson voice) Why would you want to hit a sack, lad?

Whoops gotta go.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 11:38:45 AM
IP: ppp-215.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

One thing I've noticed in the Gargoyles universe is that everything come with a price, and the price is often more then is obvious. For Coldstone, and Coldfire, the obvious price is they are now weeker then Coldsteel, but you can be sure that is only a down payment. The question I have is about the price Elisa seems to be paying, and for what? She's been shot at, nearly killed, and run into numerous antagonist, all of whom outclass her. Added to this, she's sent around the world by Avalon itself, because it's where she needs to be, and what does she get out of it? So far all I see is she's in love with Goliath. It looks like she pays the highest price, and gets no return for her trouble. What is wrong with that picture?
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 10:44:48 AM
IP: fltg2-ppp22.fltg.net

I found an interview with Greg Weisman and Keith David on the net. Click on my name to read it.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@aol.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 10:43:31 AM
IP: 166.109.44.39

**DISCUSSION WITH TGS SPOILERS**

WILEK - About the "Nothing is ever easy" rule in the Gargoyles Universe, I do agree that once in a while the characters do deserve a break. But in general, the characters shouldn't have that easy a time. The Gargoyles could always have had someone cast a spell on them that allows them to become human in daylight, or Elisa could have has a spell cast on her that would turn her into a gargoyle at night. But it feels like cheating. If everything can be worked out so easily then where is the drama of the story?

Besides, one of those interesting things that attracted me to GARGOYLES was that besides the fact that this universe had some slight differences from our own (more advanced technology, living Gargoyles, Fey, stuff like that) it still followed the same rules more or less. It felt like it could be taking place right outside my window. Life isn't easy for us in the real world. It's not a bitter, depressing struggle either, but good doesn't always win, and sometimes there isn't a happy ending.

With Coldstone and Coldfire, I have to agree with what Aris wrote. Before when they were both robots, it was a bad situation. They weren't happy and they did want to live again. But if we applied this situation to the real world, would it have happened that a powerful magical being would just show up and grant them their fondest wish? Even in a fictional universe, it's kind of a stretch. If the Fey can just pop in and do what they want then why do anything? Just learn magic or sit around and wait for a Fey to come and fix up everything for you.

(Besides, Titania transforming them to flesh gives me the feeling that she was trying to eliminate a possible future threat to her. After all from everyone in the clan who would she be vulnerable to? Flesh and blood Goliath or Iron and Stone Coldstone?)

I know that it isn't the real world, but like I said above, the series had that feel of the real world. Things don't always work out that happily in real life. And the Gargoyles Universe for the most part followed along the rules of the real world. "Nothing is ever easy" is one of those rules.

Now I'm not exactly sure what is to be done with them. Before they might have been unhappy, and upset about the situation, but that's where the interesting story comes in. How do the characters feel about this? How do they deal with it? They aren't anatomically correct but they are married. What do they do about that? What about feeling like outcasts even among gargoyles? What about being able to finally see the sun but not really feel it's warmth? What about how Gabriel and Ophelia would see them? These are questions that could lead in a million different directions and to many interesting stories. Now that they are flesh, what are they going to do? They hang around Manhattan and fight crime. Alright. But what makes them different, worth reading about now? They are pretty much just a regular gargoyle couple now. They still have to worry about Coldsteel but other than that they don't stand out anymore. They could just be another version of Broadway and Angela except they argue much more.

Also what about the fact that war has to have casualties? Owen is dead, that's true. But we've already been getting hints that he might still be around in one form or another. Elisa almost died but almost is vastly different from actually did. So where are the casualties? Everyone is alive and fine. No permanent damage because of stone sleep and magic. There was a quote by Robert E. Lee that goes through my head when I read about battles and war: "It is good that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it." What was so terrible about this war? Good won, evil lost, and everyone got out of it alright except for Owen/Puck and as a trickster, he probably found a way out of that also. If Coldstone and Coldfire had died then, it would have be really realistic. They just couldn't be helped and Madoc, even in death, managed to strike one last blow against Goliath and his clan. As it is, they got saved by Titania. What if she had been less willing to help or if Alex's magic hadn't been enough to draw her to the castle? (By the way, he isn't even a halfling. How does he have enough power to draw a full blooded fey against her will to him?) It's one thing to give them a break. This didn't feel like a break. Elisa managing to survive death because Demona decided to do her daughter a favor is unexpected to everyone in the clan and is kind of giving Elisa a break since otherwise she was going to die. Having Titania show up and wave her hand isn't giving a break. It makes everything feel like an X-Men comic where Phoenix comes along and make everything all better so that nobody has to worry about anything.

As for the changing of the names, well as I think on it, Coldstone does seem like an individual who would be willing to dump that name in a second. But he is a rash, gullible individual. He's not that bright and jumps into things without thinking about them. He would probably change his name in a second, if he ever really thought about his name at all. He also strikes me as being more traditional than anyone else because that could act as an anchor for him in a completely upside down world where he had been dropped after his resurrection. (He might have recognised Gabriel as his son after a while but I think that he would have been even more stubborn than Goliath in the matter and it would have taken a really long time.)

Coldfire on the other hand strikes me as being more introspective. She would have thought on it for a long time and then come to a decision. Would that decision have been to drop the name? I don't think that it would be. She doesn't strike me as being as fickle as him in that regard. I don't think that she would be willing to just simply forget that painful episode in her life where she was a robot.

If I had just spent five years as a animated stone cyborg or as a soul in a robot I admit that I wouldn't exactly look fondly on those years. On the other hand, if I had spent five years in that condition and then was suddenly restored to living flesh, I would remember those years as a lesson of how precious life and feeling is so that I would cherish it more than I had before the entire unliving experience. I wouldn't be hesitant to think back on those years because they would have taught me something. Coldstone might not think back on those years though but then again he isn't the brightest person in that clan. Coldfire on the other hand, she would think back on her life as a robot and would probably gain a greater appreciation for the new life she has now.

**END OF DISCUSSION WITH TGS SPOILERS**
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 10:11:14 AM
IP: 140.new-york-01-02rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

** walks in, coughing up phlegm by the pound. **

Damn, am I ever sick.

Glimmer> ["What the world needs now is GARGOYLES ON ICE!!"] Yeah, but how could they fit their feet into skates?

ColdDuo's transformation: How convenient that Xanatos thinks along the same veins as Brother Edmund, mmm? *chortle*

SJ> Gungan coming onto you? "Messa wanna get inna you pants!"

David G.> I never took your sanity? Damn. *holds jar (jar) out* Hand it over.

Elisa delivering pizza: She'd look cute in a Pizza Hut uniform! Not as cute as the girl on the Episode 1 PH commercials, but still... maybe as good a shot, yeah.

And that, my friends, is all.
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 10:09:53 AM
IP: webcache.telusplanet.net

**enters the room, switching out the candles.**

A few quickies this early in the morning ...

JackaL: You probably would've liked one of Jay Leno's "Headlines" last night ... someone sent him an ad for some really bad Phantom Menace merchandise ... in particular, a sucker that comes out of Jar Jar's mouth. I believe his comment was, "This is something great to teach the kids, learn how to French kiss the big monster." :)

Of course there have been worse pieces of Star Wars merchandise ... the immediate thought that comes to my mind is the C3PO tape dispenser which was a reclining 3PO, and the tape roll was between his legs.

Valentine: Nah, celtic music just isn't my speed. When I fixate to music, it's usually Meat Loaf.

Six Degrees: just thought of another one this morning ...

ICE T -- GO!
Ice T was in "Players" with Costas Mandylor, who was in "Picket Fences" with Lauren Holly, who was in "Dumb and Dumber" with Jim Carrey, who was in "The Mask" with Cameron Diaz, who was in "There's Something About Mary" with Keith David.

More from me tonight, I believe ...

**fixates briefly on the candle before leaving.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 09:38:02 AM
IP: modem28.i-is.com

Attention X-Men Fans: Click on my name to see a picture of the new WOLVERINE, Mr. Dougray Scott. Apperently, Scott just signed on to play Logan in the upcoming live-action X-Men movie.
Not exactly my choice, but then again, who knows...
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 09:02:46 AM
IP: 129.174.56.161

Yes, it was easy. And for those who are saying that the characters deserve a break every once in a while - you are right. But the break shouldn't be easy.

But I think the reason for this 'rule' isn't understood by all. It's not that things shouldn't be easy because that's 'unrealistic': Not just because of that anyway. It's because easiness is undramatic. Easiness is wasteful. Easiness at the end makes for bad stories.

To those people who say that Coldsteel and Coldfire are now vulnerable, I say "Nonsense.". Can you see any of the living gargoyles desiring to enter the bodies of the cyborgs? On the other hand Coldsteel and Coldfire wished desperately to live once again. They got their greatest wish without paying the least price. Where's the drama in that?

Moreover what was the point of the whole Coldstone - Coldfire arc? To have them once again be normal gargoyles? A radical transformation should never be reversed, because then there's no point to the whole arc. The mutates should never become human again (Greg has confirmed that). Demona wouldn't become mortal. Coldstone and Coldfire should never have become gargoyles.

The problem once again isn't one of logic - Titania could quite possibly do it. It's one of drama. Why did the writers do it? If they wanted to explore Othello and Desdemona they could have used flashbacks or 'Dark Ages'. If they wanted to add living gargoyles they could have used any of a number of gargoyle worlds worldwide. Why waste two characters with a special characteristic to do something that any gargoyle could do?

I don't hate the transformation - after all Coldstone and Coldfire were never my most favourite characters, so I don't mind that much. I simply see no dramatic reason for it, storywise.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 08:26:07 AM
IP: athe530-d119.otenet.gr

Just a reminder... there's still a little bit of time left to register for GWT/G99 and book your hotel room!

So we've got some people out there are just now reading "Longest Day"... thanks for the compliments. I'm glad you liked it. :)

Regarding magic > Two things to remember to answer two questions that have been raised: 1) The "price" of a magic spell is typically paid by the spellcaster or the user of the talisman. 2) Einstein's theory states that matter and energy are interchangable. That's a pretty good thing for the fay, who tend to like to do things like change into giant monster worms or pull huge watches out of thin air.
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 07:45:58 AM
IP: abd5e2a4.ipt.aol.com

To everyone who is complaining about Titania repairing Coldstone and Coldfire so easily. Who said it was easy. That was a piece of major magic. They are now, once more, true gargoyles with all their vulnerabilities. Besides they were instrumental in protecting Alex. And she didn't just decide to do it. What grandmother could resist a heart wrenching request from their dearst grandbaby??

We still have to resolve Danu, Banshee, and other odds and end and of course end with an excellant cliff hanger like with Timedancer.

Later world.

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 06:12:53 AM
IP: proxy-513.public.rwc.webtv.net

Just a few quick notes, and then it�s back to the old archive...

******* Minor TGS Spoilers(But only if you�re really behind)**********

First off, I just got done w/ �Longest Day 1&2�. Todd Jensen, Patrick Toman, kudos to both of you. This sucker freakin� ROCKED!!! You guys did a great job portraying
Demona�s inner struggles, and that Apocalypse sequence realing got my mind cranking.:)
Oh, and I loved the lecture hall scene...

*Switches to his yiddish accent*

�Ok... there are people...making out in here...� hee hee hee:) Given the image of Fox I�ve gotten from all the fics I�ve read, I somehow doubt that this is an isolated occurance...;)

**********End TGS SPOILERS****************
Also, the TMNT plug reminded me of an old story idea off of castle.net. By pure chance, Elisa Maza, Louis Lane, and April O�Niel all end up taking the same elevator while going
to interview/arrest somebody. The elevator breaks, and all three summon their friends using their distinctive methods (Radio, communicator, screaming). A few minutes later...
�Cowabunga!!� �Da-dadaDA!!� �Who�s the guy in tights?� :)

Wilek>Demona Collective? Wow...that sounds so kewl! Or better--the Demona Overmind. Oh wait, I think someone else is doing an Overmind (but not with
Demona)...>Who? I�m really interested in all this stuff, and I�d like to read their take on it.

Oh, and thanks for the pic links

Sounds like DC is batting a perfect .1000 today. I think my computer got nailed by a virus
yesterday; It�s starting to act wierd... Anyway, add some hydrocloric acid into that peeling
job for me, will ya, pisstoff?

Coyote> If you really wanna fixate, pal, try some good celtic music. I just got done
listening to a bittersweet tune called �One I love�. Why is it that celtic music is always
filled with melancholy?

*Valentine checks his watch*

Oops, it�s three in the morning again. well, looks like I�d better hit the sack.

Gunjack Valentine
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 04:34:52 AM
IP: spider-wk013.proxy.aol.com

**EVEN MORE DC DEATH**

Jack has now worked his way up to DC's chest--then he frowns. "Oops, missed a spot." He peels a bit of remaining flesh off DC's scrotum, then goes back to work on DC's man-boobies.

**DC DEATH TO BE CONTINUED**

Robby: Ohh, that *would* explain a lot, wouldn't it? Actually, I had Elisa delivering pizzas in G2K Episode 6, "Fear and Loathing with Jack Hammer." She's not eager to repeat the experience. ;)

JackaL: <Female Jar Jar? Absolute heaven! ::orgasm::> ROTFLMAO! But hey, I saw her first! ... Oh, what the hell, I'm willing to share if you are. :)

About the "Nothing is ever easy" stuff: Well, making things too difficult every second of every day would be just as unrealistic as making things too easy. My own series has had its share of events that could almost be considered deus x machina, though I tried to set things up in such a way from the very beginning. Still, it makes sense to give your characters a few breaks and happy endings now and then, because it gives them a breather--and allows them time to become complacent. Then, when you drop a $h!tstorm on them, it's that much more devastating because they weren't expecting it. :)
Pistoff - [pistoff@anti-social.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 04:12:45 AM
IP: wire-18.koalas.com

Okay, I had a couple of fun Star Trek quotes pulled out since I just finished watching that great classic, Star Trek 6, a nice decent sized RP bit, a rant on how awful the third season of Dragonball Z is, and my usual replies,but my computer has cut me off in the middle of posting FIVE times now. I would just type it up offline, but I can't cut and paste into the CR for some unfathomable reason. And since I probably don't have the time to properly kill DC, I won't. This ticks me off quite a bit... Grr... True post tommarrow if my computer will allow it...

"If I were human, I believe my response would be, 'Go to Hell.' If I were human." -Spock
Robby
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 03:32:23 AM
IP: spider-tp041.proxy.aol.com

I see there's some sort of actor-tracking going on... here we go with a dual path:

CARRIE FISHER...GO!
Carrie Fisher was in Star Wars with Harrison Ford who was in Last Crusade with John Rhys-Davies
*OR*
Carrie Fisher was in Star Wars with Mark Hammill (uh... Hamill? Hammil? Aw, whatever) who was in Wing Commander IV: The Price of Freedom with John Rhys-Davies.

HAH!

On a personal level: Life wanted, any one will do.

And I am considered strange... I feel at home here...
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@geocities.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 03:10:59 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

**RP!**

[In Oz, Wilek notices his odd new clothing and is *most* surprised. Wilek: "What the <censored>?!" He hears the familiar laughter of a now-ghostly trickster before his clothing returns to normal. Wilek: "So you had to get in one last joke. Do that again and I'm tossing Fuzzy into a wood chipper." He listens to Argent's explanation of just how she was separated from the team...and doesn't notice Venrik shooting a hateful glare at the Lion, who also doesn't notice him. Venrik quietly sneaks up behind Lion and taps him on the shoulder. Lion turns around, whereupon Venrik's face contorts into a mask of rage. Venrik: "*YOU!*" Lion: "Er...me?" Venrik: "You are one of Eisner's servants! You are the one who took me to this place, the one who torched my haven, the one who destroyed my experiments!" Lion: "I...I did those things against my will! I was blood bound, Eisner's servant! I couldn't disobey his commands, and believe me, I wanted to. I...I'm sorry." Venrik starts to say something, then pauses, not having expected his former tormentor to have had such a thorough change of heart. Venrik: "Of...of course..." The Tzimisce wanders back to the group, more than a little baffled. Meanwhile, the shadows mentioned in Argent's last post continue to close in...]

**PAUSE RP!**

Kitainia> Hey, you're back! Welcome! :D <> Me too; it's been a while!

Gunjack> Demona Collective? Wow...that sounds so kewl! Or better--the Demona Overmind. Oh wait, I think someone else is doing an Overmind (but not with Demona)...<<how exactly do you view the pics w/out posting them?>> Click my name.

Zath> <<Wasn't there an Ewoks cartoon show about a decade ago?>> Which demonstrated my point. Ecch.

Argent> <<What do you mean by 'open pic in my browser--online, not the local copy...?'>> Well, a pic has to be on the Web for you to link to it; linking to a file on your hard drive--a local file--won't work. You have to go to wherever the pic is on the Internet and copy the URL from there. $<<One of them is doing a Belmont Impression. [whatever that is.]>> Heh...that was SJ's figurative (and rather clever, I think) way of notifying us all that I (and presumably the rest of the team) will be kicking some vampire booty. >:) The Belmonts are a family of vampire hunters from the Castlevania video games.$

Deuce> <<There's a lovely little show on late Saturday nights called "Breaker High". It's a teen soap opera where the main characters go to school on a boat>> AUGH. I once caught an episode of that, quite against my will I assure you. One more reason that HAIM SABAN MUST DIE.

**DISCUSSION WITH TGS SPOILERS**

There's been much talk these days of a rule of the Gargs universe, of nothing ever being easy. Is it me, or has this been expected to be taken *way* too far lately? Now, in terms of characters' motives and psychology, I can understand it...but really, when it goes too far, it becomes ridiculous. I like to think that Titania, for all her manipulativeness, is unusually beneficent for a Fey; there's nothing wrong with what she did for Coldfire and Coldsteel. Besides, Fey tend to do interesting things when you don't specify *exactly* what you want. >:)

Airwalker> <<The second thing that really really bothers me is that they automatically decided to change their names. Coldstone is now Othello and Coldfire is Desdemona. I don't like that at all. It's like the years they spent as cyborg and robot were all a dream and now they can continue their lives as if nothing had happened.>> If I'd spent several years of my life in a construct like that, and I were as suddenly and thoroughly liberated from it as the Cold Duo were, I'd want to divest myself of any reminders of that time, including the names of the robots.

**END SPOILERS**

Oracle, Forrest> Welcome! :D Don't mind the evil hacker who's getting his skin slowly peeled off in the corner; you'll come to enjoy his screams...

David G.> <<Now that I think about it, nobody told me to check my sanity at the door, either, not that I had much left.>> Oh...allow me to help correct that little oversight. Deuce? >:)

Green Baron> <<The world is in danger. All the superheroes unionized and they went on strike, since they turned bad when they started their union. Now, the world only has three guardians to defend them form evil. Vinnie Gregarino, Joxur the Mighty, and Jar Jar Binks.>> O_o When did NASA say the Mars colony would be ready?

Glimmer> Gargs On Ice? Interesting...do they have it at Disney World?

SJ> <<I don't know about that Vader/C-3PO bit. I mean, there's about a bazillion droids that look JUST LIKE 3PO. It'd be pretty darn extraordinary for Ani to look at this one droid, after years spent apart between creator and creation, and know somehow it's his.>> Maybe he heard one of the other characters call 3P0 by name. You know...in one of the novels, 3P0's first encounter with Darth Vader is said to be when 3P0 mistook Vader for a guard droid at an Imperial social function. Instead of tossing him into an ion furnace and melting him down into commemorative coins like everyone expected, Vader assigned him to preschool duty for a year. Cruel, yes, but not as brutal as Vader is usually known for. Hm.

Ordell> <<I'm telling you, it all starts here...>> Which reminds me of a creepy bit I encountered today...Has anyone here seen Transformers: The Movie? Does anyone know the rock remix of the theme that appeared in the movie? It was something of an extended version, with actual lyrics instead of just 'robots in disguise, the autobots wage their battle to destroy etc. etc'. The aforementioned actual lyrics seem eerily reminiscent of the Unseelie War. Example: "Something evil's watching over you/Coming from the sky above/And there's nothing you can do [...] So stand united or we're sure to fall/Until the darkest hour/When the righteous save us all". Spooky, no?

Jackal> <<but godd**n it, Wilek, that was the loudest "NO" I've ever heard in my life!!!! That got the attention of starfleet command across the galaxy!!! LMAO..., sorry, I thought it was funny...>> So did I. :)

**RESUME RP!**

[In an alley in Iowa, Wilek Fieger III and Kitainia are engaged in a furious battle, and the better-armed WF3 appears to be winning, despite Kitainia's superior agility and combat expertise. Suddenly, they hear a voice, the voice of the Borg Collective, echo from all around..."Kitainia, disengage your target. Wilek Fieger III has been marked for assimilation." Kit & WF3 together: "What?!" A spiderlike Borg scuttler leaps down from a fire escape and fires a stun blast at WF3, knocking him out. The Borg explains, in the droning voice of the hive mind, "You were ordered to retreat for your own safety; your injury or assimilation would have proven disadvantageous at this juncture." Kitainia doesn't like the sound of that 'at this juncture', but she doesn't make an issue of it. She instead asks, "Who wants Fieger 3 assimilated?" Scuttler: "Administrator, Avatar Of Ganon, core adjunct of Unimatrix 014." ~So that's the Administrator's full name~, thinks Kitainia. The scuttler sprouts assimilation tubules from the razor-sharp ends of two of its six legs, and sticks them into WF3's neck, injecting assimilation nanites. Kitainia: "Ah...well, give her my thanks; she saved my life." The now-assimilated clone gargoyle now awakens, and unsteadily rises to its feet. The scuttler tells it: "You are designated X of Three, primary adjunct to Unimatrix 014. Report to Core Adjunct for completion of assimilation and assignment of final designation. You must comply." The Borg-goyle nods and disappears into what Kitainia recognizes as one of the Administrator's portals. Scuttler: "The Administrator, as your kind has designated her, orders us to inform you that you are welcome. We comply." With that, it skitters off to patrol the area. Ever so slightly shaken by the coldness and subtle brutality of what she has just witnessed, Kitainia attends to the unconscious Ruth, wondering if there are any medic drones around...]

**END RP!**
Wilek Nereus
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 02:48:17 AM
IP: tnt-3-242-56k.portsmouth.zoomnet.net

I wasn't going to..., but I can't help myself.... I understand that some people don't like Jar Jar the way I do...., the way I can..., the way I alwayz will..., none of you can ever comp..... ::ahem:: Anyway.., I realize this..., some of you don't like Jar Jar..., but godd**n it, Wilek, that was the loudest "NO" I've ever heard in my life!!!! That got the attention of starfleet command across the galaxy!!!
LMAO..., sorry, I thought it was funny...
JackaL
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 01:17:06 AM
IP: spider-tq082.proxy.aol.com

::Observes Deuce's behavior:: I'll have whatever he took.

An animated Jar Jar?!??? YaY!!!!! "Mesa called Jar Jar Binks."

A Female Jar Jar- Absolute heaven!! ::orgasm::

<<Gungan coming on to you... I can't understand a dern word that comes out of their mouths>>
"Yousa gonna poke me wit dat?"
"Huh? Wha?? Look... see..., this is what we call Bondage. Now, shut up."
Does that answer your question..., or did I put an image in your head that you didn't want? :o)

Umm..., is anyone in here named Joe? (there's a reason for my asking).
Possibly the only person that wants Jar Jar Binks......, JackaL
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:56:08 AM
IP: spider-tq082.proxy.aol.com

Austin Powers/Mastercard commercial> I'm telling you, they steal all of the idea from here. We were doing that a while back, remember that? Any one see that episode of Hercules with Merlin and King Authur? The younger version of Merlin look JUST like Emrys is portrayed, no? I'm telling you, it all starts here....

DS9 Finale> Not what I expected, indeed. But I wouldn't call it bad. I thought the Gul Dukat arc was rushed way to much, but other than that, the only thing I can complain about is that Jadzia was not in Worf's nostalgia scene.

All for now, I must be going....
Ordell - [awaltrip@cableone.net]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:50:58 AM
IP: ppp-9.ode.cableone.net

**enters the room sweating profusely, produces a pre-lit candle from his pocket a la Gomez Addams' cigars, and switches out the candles.**

Whew, it's hot here. **spreads a towel out on the big chair before sitting down in it.** It doesn't help when you drive a gigantic car with an overactive heater and leather upholstery. :)

Shogun: Thanks for the complement on the six degrees. And since I really ought to complete the Action Pack duo ...
KEVIN SORBO ... GO!
Kevin Sorbo was in "Kull the Conqueror" with Tia Carrere, who was in "Wayne's World" with Dana Carvey, who was a Saturday Night Live regular with Jon Lovitz, who was in "The Critic" with Kath Soucie, who played a number of characters (including Princess Katherine and the Weird Sisters) on "Gargoyles."

Kitainia: Welcome back!

Doug: Glad you're feeling better. Wish I could say the same ... **sighs sadly, fixates briefly on the candle's flame, then continues**

Tarzan: Has anyone picked up the soundtrack to this movie yet? I have ... it's great! Many of the songs that Phil Collins has composed for it are great stand-alone songs in and of themselves ... depending on your mood, "You'll Be In My Heart" can be either a lullaby or a love ballad.

**the mention of love ballads causes more sighs and more fixation, this time for the rest of the night.**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:18:17 AM
IP: modem45.i-is.com

*Valentine appears dressed in a white robe, and humming to himself*

Ahh, good old celtic music

Sorry about the messy nature of my last posts. Just goes to show that you should never do
heavy thinking at three in the morning. By the way, how exactly do you view the pics
w/out posting them?

Anyway, I was trying to show that there are better ways around Demona�s problems than
killing her. To my cold, pragmatic way of thinking, Demona owes one whopper of a debt
to both her clan and humanity in general, it�s gonna take a heck of a lot longer than a
hundred years to pay off that debt, and until she does, her life is not her own. Like in
1984, it�s only AFTER your soul is clean that they give you the bullet in the head. At
least, that�s the way it should be...

Oracle>OK, here I am, a constant lurker and reader.>> You too, eh? Well, it�s nice to
know I�m not alone. :)

Out of curiosity, is there anybody here who is gonna be playing in the GGG (Garg
GURPS Game) at the gathering, and if so, who are you playing as? I�m workin� on a nasty
South African sniper garg.

See ya there

Gunjack Valentine
Dallas
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:16:58 AM
IP: spider-wj083.proxy.aol.com

****BEGIN RP****
Everyone turns suddenly from the open gate to see Argent and Jewel*D head towards them, followed at a distance by Venrik.
"Argent? Jewel*D?" SJ says in disbelief. "Wha-we thought you guys had been captured by Eisner? Where have you been all this time? And what the heck happened?"
"Plothole," someone muttered.
"What?"
"Nothing."
"Let me explain," Argent begins, but she's interrupted.
"Waitta minute," SJ says, scratching his chin. "If you're here...and we're here too....then who's in there with Eisner?"
"Can I explain?," Argent says loudly. "You see, Jewel*D and I were--what the...why is he dressed like that?" She to Wilek, who is busy clothing himself in lightweight chainmail, and gleefully holding a very dangerous-looking whip.
"Oh, um, never mind that. He's just a little anxious to fight Eisner, that's all."
"God, who's writing this RP?" Venrik mutters.
"What?"
"LISTEN!!" Argent shouts. "Let me explain! You see, this is what happenned..."
***PAUSE RP FOR NOW****

Argent, Wilek, TRC, anyone else in our bit of RP...I'm trying to wrap it up soon, if you guys don't mind. So please, if you can, do try to help out; I want the battle with Eisner to be a good one! :)

Kitiana: Good to see you back! We missed you! :)

REMINDER: This Wensday, on TNT, at 10 pm, CRUSADE (the sequel to B5) begins! Watch it! Please! Ratings are everything!
And then remember that it was supposed to be a 5 YEAR series, now cut down to a mere 13 episodes of a "limited series" by the a-holes running TNT. Screw you, Ted Turner.

"Ewoks" & "Droids": UGH. That's the word to best describe the 2 shows. Droids wasn't too bad, I suppose; by no means worthy of the name Star Wars, IMO, but not that bad I suppose. It was mildly entertaining, but did have some serious flaws (as well as crummy animation, I might add). Ewoks on the other hand....let's attempt to forget the show ever existed. I don't remember much of it, but what I do is enough to make me wish to purge it form my memory. If you're going to make a Star Wars tv show, give me big, exciting space battles, Jedi knights, bad-ass Naziesque storm troopers! NOT F-ING TEDDYBEARS!!!

Female Jar Jar.....Yeck. No way I'm doing a 7 foot tall *reptile*. Especially one that looks like Jar Jar. Interesting question though--how could you tell a female Gungan was coming on to you? I mean, I can't understand a dern word that comes out of their mouths to begin with...

Austin Powers Mastercard commercial: Are you talking about the Dr. Evil one? ROTFLMAO!!! "Creating 1/8th size clone of myself: Priceless." I have GOT to see AP:TSWSM this Friday!

Robby: I don't know about that Vader/C-3PO bit. I mean, there's about a bazillion droids that look JUST LIKE 3PO. It'd be pretty darn extraordinary for Ani to look at this one droid, after years spent apart between creator and creation, and know somehow it's his.
I still don't like the idea of Vader creating 3PO. I don't know, for me, the appeal of the droids was that they weren't really special; just regular droids thrown into very irregular situations. Now, they're given some very important origins: R2 was a Naboo astromech droid who just happened to save the butts of Obi-Wan, Amidala, and the future little space-Hitler; and 3PO was created by the Jedi Fuhrer himself. It's a big universe; you don't have to have EVERYTHING fit into one massive continuity.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, June 8, 1999 12:14:53 AM
IP: 207-172-33-69.s69.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

Real post momentarily....

Sean Connery: This is too easy. Sean Connery was in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" with John Rhys-Davies, who of course played Macbeth.

Shogun Raptor: You could also say Cheech is in "Nash Bridges" with Don Johnson, who was in "G.I.Joe the Movie" with Ed Gilbert, aka The Captain.

Sam Jackson...GO!!!
Sam Jackson was in "Die Hard 3" with Jeremy Irons, who was in the Lion King with Whoopi Goldberg, who was on Star Trek with Jon Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Brent Spiner, Michael Dorn, and Levar Burton...take your pick.

And just for laughs....
HOWARD STERN....GO!!!
Howard was in "Private Parts" with Paul Giamatti (Paul played the evil executive dubbed Pig Virus); Paul played in Donnie Brasco with Johnny Depp, who starred on the show "21 Jumpt Street" with Richard Grieco, aka Tony Dracon.

I used to OBSESS over this game. Drove everyone around me nuts.
Sevarius Jr.
Monday, June 7, 1999 11:44:04 PM
IP: 207-172-33-69.s69.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

On of Pistoff's remars lef to a creativity demon... Elisa was a Pizza girl for a while before she was a cop, and THAT'S what made her a wierdness magnet!
Robby
Monday, June 7, 1999 11:13:20 PM
IP: spider-wb082.proxy.aol.com

Well, even the best of us mess up once in a while. Here I was worried that MacDowell wasn't the voice of Proteus, well on to Plan B, Whoopi was in Star Trek Generations with Marina Sirtis who does the Voice of Demona
Shogun raptor
Monday, June 7, 1999 11:12:21 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

And just for the heck of it

Jar jar Binks...Go

Binks was in Episode one with Jake Lloyd who was in Jingle all the way with Ah-nold who was in batman and Robin with Chris O'Donnel who was in Batman Forever with Tommy Lee Jones who was in Men in Black with Will Smith who was in Independance day with Brent Spiner who did the voice of Puck
Shogun raptor
Monday, June 7, 1999 11:09:56 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

Shogun Raptor: Um, Roddy MacDowell wasn't in Star Trek Generations. That was Malcolm McDowell. O_o
Pissy again
Monday, June 7, 1999 11:09:35 PM
IP: wire-24.koalas.com

Blue Caeru> regarding the Batman one, you forget that Ed Asner was Roland Daggett on that show as well, not to mention David Warner as Ra's Al Ghul
Shogun raptor
Monday, June 7, 1999 11:06:36 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

**DC DEATH CONTINUES ...**

Jack has just reached DC's knees. DC screams in agony as Jack begins on his kneecaps. Jack slaps DC across the face.

"Shut up, you maggot." Jack glances up and grins, then starts to sing. "Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of Jack!"

He continues peeling ...

**DC DEATH TO BE CONTINUED ...**

Aaron: Unless I'm mistaken, Michael Wincott is Canadian. I'm not sure, but I think I saw an article somewhere that mentioned that he was from Canada. And the other guy you're thinking of is Ron Perlman. My favorite scene of his in that movie is when he climbs to the top of the ladder and almost walks into a spider web. He yelps, then places the barrel of his gun against the spider and pulls the trigger. I was laughing my ass off for ten minutes.

Oh, and LA is a good place for Bad Guys. Considering the way a lot of people there dress and style their hair, Yama and Fang probably wouldn't even be noticed.

ColdDuo's price: Well, I have an idea that probably won't actually happen, but here it is anyway. Remember that Othello and Desdemona were created from the body of a single gargoyle--and not even a whole body, at that. I just have to wonder how two whole bodies could be created from organic matter that didn't have enough mass to form even *one* body, much less two.

BTW, this is one of the things about magic that really pisses me off. When you use magic, you can do any damn thing you want. Even if it carries a heavy price, it still allows you to do the impossible. You can't create *two* intact bodies with the amount of mass that was used.

Anyway, back to my theory. What if Othello and Desdemona begin to develop some sort of genetic defect due to the way they were recreated? Maybe their genetic structure begins to break down, and they have to be put back in cyborg bodies. Maybe cancer starts to chew them up alive. Any way you look at it, it seems that something should go severely wrong with their bodies because of the way they were created. At the very least, if they had children, the kids should be deformed because Desdemona's body was created from Othello's DNA.

But that's assuming the writers use proven scientific theories rather than magic. Oh well, just my two cents ...

Green Baron: I have considered trucking, actually. I looked into it, and realized I'd rather not spend 12 or 14 hours or more on the road, then stopping somewhere to sleep for a few hours, then hitting the road again. The money would be good, yes, but I'm planning to avoid any kind of delivery jobs. Thanks anyway. :)

Elisa as a weirdness magnet: I know how she must feel. Oh god, do I know ... ;)

**MORE DC DEATH**

Jack has now reached DC's waist. He pauses long enough to whip out his Bowie knife and Bobbitize DC. Jack looks around and says, "Anybody care for sausage?" Then he goes back to work.

**DC DEATH TO BE CONTINUED ...**
Pistoff - [pistoff@anti-social.com]
Monday, June 7, 1999 11:04:58 PM
IP: wire-24.koalas.com

Coyote, Robby and others who know the art of "six degrees">Impressive, most impressive, and Blue, I've got a version of the seth green one that's a little Similar

Mike Meyers...GO!
Meyers was in Austin Powers with Seth Green who plays in Buffy the Vampire Slayer with Armin Shimmerman who played Quark on DS9 along with Michael Dorn who does Coldstone and Taurus

Or.
Cheech and Chong...GO!
Cheech Marin was in The lion King with Whoopi Goldberg who played in Star Trek Generations with Roddy macDowell who does Proteus 0n Gargoyles,

there you go..Six Degrees: the New Olympus version.
and for the record, I was under the impression that only movie roles could be used, although whether sequels could be used is something I'm not sure of

Shogun raptor
Monday, June 7, 1999 11:04:51 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

**FURTHER COMMENTS ON CURRENT TGS EPISODE**

Going back, rereading, and thinking about this episode, I still stand by what I said before. But the transformation from cybernetic life to true life doesn't really bother me that much. I can live with Coldstone and Coldfire being truly alive. (I still feel that it is a wasted potential but it doesn't upset me THAT much. I can get used to it.)

What really, really bothers me is the immediate name change. I can never really see them as anyone other than Coldstone and Coldfire, no matter what form they have - robot and cyborg or living flesh. I can accept everything else but a name is a name. It helps to define you. They had two names - Coldstone and Coldfire. Now that they are flesh, those names should have stuck because they had to have been changed tremendously by the whole unliving experience. They were Othello and Desdemona before the undead experience. (I know that they didn't actually have a name but I mean in terms of personality. That's who they were in 994. In 1996 when they finally got seperate bodies, that's not who they were anymore. They grew passed that point and evolved.) After the undead experience they became Coldstone and Coldfire. That's who they evolved into. Even if the bodies change, that evolution of the mind can't go back. Othello and Desdemona disappeared in POSSESSION. That's when Coldstone and Coldfire were born. No matter what happens to them, that really should never have changed. That name change just seems like a step back. It just feels really wrong.

Goliath was called that from the beginning of the series but he didn't think of it as a name for a while - it was just some nickname that humans identified him by. During the series he came to recognise himself as Goliath and not as "Leader who humans call Goliath". Coldstone refered to the shell as Coldstone not really taking the name for himself until POSSESSION. Once he took the name, it became his. He began to think of himself in those terms and it began to help define him. I just find it hard to believe that he would so easily dump it.

I wonder now, what's going to happen with them? Now that they are flesh, they are just like everyone else in the clan except they argue a bit more. They are no longer useful to protect anyone from Coldsteel and are vulnerable themselves. Perhaps they should retire to Avalon. It has a more kind of medieval life that they could appreciate more now that they have go retro.

**END OF FURTHER COMMENTS ON CURRENT TGS EPISODE**
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Monday, June 7, 1999 10:05:03 PM
IP: 214.new-york-53-54rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

Back for the third, and probably final, time today (Unless somebody else says something I feel compelled to respond to).

Glimmer- Congratulations. You're the first person to ever figure out the bees. Lots of people get the rose, but almost nobody remembers the bees. If you want your prize, I have a really twisted version of Little Red Riding Hood, a couple of gamer stories (One for Shadow Run and two related ones for Werewolf: the Apocalypse) and a smattering of other stories that would take too long to describe.

Gyre- Yes, Elisa almost died, and yes, she's going through enough pain of her own, but (a) things are actually pretty good for her, and (b) nobody had been talking about Elisa recently when I read the post that gave me the idea for my latest assessment of Demona's character. Sorry if I seemed insensitive. The thing is, ever since Demona's past was revealed (City of Stone?), she's been my favorite character, and I've hoped someone would be able to show her the way out of her self created hell.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Monday, June 7, 1999 09:20:34 PM
IP: pppa74-fortworthc12-2r5202.saturn.bbn.com

**RP HERE**

The screen comes on with an image of the highway near Crown Point. Hades is cursing to himself, brushing dust and ash off his clothing. The psychic tracker's phone rings, and he answers it. "Yes?" "It's your master. Have you captured Jaden?" "Not yet," Hades laments. "And now he's inside a town that's been turned into a veritable fortress. I can't get in there to hunt him down." "Hmm," the evil scientist replies. "Alright, you still have your psychic link with Jaden, right?" "Yes. I know that right now he and his friends are planning to attack some forces of Thailog's who are hiding nearby." "Excellent. Find out their plans through your link, and send Thailog a complete run-down on all their forces and capabilities. We want him to have an advantage in the upcoming battle. The more of Jaden's friends he can take out, the easier it will be to abduct Jaden later." "Brilliant, master," Hades says. "I shall do as you command."

The display changes to Crown Point's donut shop, where Doug is munching on a cherry frosted pastry and talking with Agent Rho. "So this Wilek Fieger III just jumped down into the town?" Doug asks. "Yes, but I don't think he'll be a problem," Rho replies. "The Administrator has already sent in someone to assimilate him." "Good. You know, I worry, though." "About what?" "About the fact that practically all of your and Wilek's forces somehow incorporate Borg upgrades and technology. I'm worried that so much symmetry could be used against us somehow." "You don't need to be concerned, Mr. Elder. Our technology may all have the same root source code due to it all being part of the same collective, but we have placed in so many shields and safeguards that there is no way that could be used against us." "I wonder." "Fine, if you want to worry, go ahead. Excuse me for a moment, I need to visit the restroom." "Okay," Doug says. While he's waiting for Rho to get back, Doug makes a post.

**END RP 1ST HALF**

Hi everyone! Today was a good day, especially since Kitainia's back in the same town as me. :) Hope all of you had a good day as well, and that everyone has a good summer.

Fanfic Progress: Got the outline, intro, and opening scene done for Innocence today. The latter contains an interesting description of The Phantom Menace. :) Teaser time-
Coming by early July...
Graeme and Arianna make a new friend, who unfortunately may turn out to be a deadly enemy in disguise. Also, Zack Sheppard gets a Watcher. "Innocence."

Thanks to everyone who has sent me feedback on Beneath the Streets so far. I value every bit of it, and hope to get more soon. Particularly from Green Baron (because the character based on him makes his first onscreen appearance in this tale). Hope everyone reads and enjoys it, though. BTW, if anyone's wondering about the voices of some of the characters, I don't know who would do Greene, Jack, or Charlie, but Kurtz is Robert Duval and Max is Ice Cube.

Wilek: $ I didn't know Forfexx wore a mask, thanks for telling me. For some reason I always pictured him having a long face that sports a cruel grin when he's killing someone. But the mask is cool, too. I guess the evil clone left it off. <shrugs> $

Jarjar: Everything I hear about this guy makes me despise him even more. Just the other day I read in the paper how Lucas is really glad he was able to create Jarjar and find a good actor to play him. Lucas said it was "the first time I got a really good preformance of an alien character on screen." Excuse me, what about Chewbacca, Jabba the Hutt, the Rancor, Bib Fortuna, Greedo, Yoda, Neen Nub, the Ewoks, and Admiral Akbar? All those aliens were way better characters than Jarjar, and the actors who played them turned in fantastic preformances that were way more enjoyable and interesting than anything Jarjar could possibly have done! This makes one worry that Lucas knows nothing about his own films. Hope Jarjar gets taken out of episode 2, if he hasn't already been, and that nobody watches his animated series (if he gets one, and my money says he will just because Lucas wants it <sigh>).

Paul: That sounds like an interesting crossover idea. I'd pick up on it if I had the space available in my current season of fics. Maybe I'll be able to do it in the future, thanks.

Coyote: I am feeling very much better now. :) Thanks.

Mandi: Yep, it's done. :) So when will I get your feedback? :)

Argent: Congrats on the new scanner.

**BEGIN SPOILERS FOR CURRENT TGS EP**

Aftermath: This was a pretty good episode. The plot flowed well, and was full of good dialogue and character bits. I liked the relationship development on Matt and Sara, and was cheering along with Kitainia when they kissed at the end. The character development on Goliath, Elisa, Demona, Angela, Xanatos, Fox, Lex, and Liz was also done very well. I liked seeing Coldstone and Coldfire getting transformed into Othello and Desdemona, but I agree with Airwalker's points about how the transformation and name changes seemed too easy and out of character for them. Oh well, it's the TGS Staff's story, and I'm sure they have something planned. I also agree that every once in a while the clan deserves a break. Great pic of Titania and the Cold Duo. I hope that in next week's episode we see what's happening with the clans in the rest of the world and the bad guys, as well as Richard's reaction to the death of George. 7/10, everything else has already been said.

**END SPOILERS FOR CURRENT TGS EP**

Oracle, Forrest: Welcome!!

Green Baron: That TV series idea does sound like a nightmare. $ BTW, is Ted Kennedy dead along with Harkin? (I'm betting he's not) $

Arianna: I missed you. Welcome back!

Airwolf: They brought it back? Cool. What station is it on, Glimmer? I used to enjoy that show a lot, and wouldn't mind doing so again. Especially since I plan to make String and his chopper part of Earth's air force during my fic saga's Apocalypse War.

Glimmer: Gargs on Ice? You're right, this is something we need to see! Hope that if the show does happen it comes to the ice rink at Austin's Erwin Center or Northcross Mall, Kit and I'd gladly pay money to see it. :)

Hmm, no more threads to respond to. Okay, post ended. Night!

**BACK TO RP**

Agent Rho comes back, and Doug turns to face him. "Alright," Doug says, "time for battle plans. We don't know exactly where Guod is, right?" "Unfortunately, no," Rho laments. "At least not yet. The Administrator is working on it, though. She's also compiled a list of his possible forces based on the TV stars who have disappeared recently and the time periods we think his Borg have visited. I'm faxing Gubio the list now." "Alright," Doug nods. "Now you were going to tell me about Agent Tau." "Tau? Oh yes. He belongs to an alien race of sentient crystals. They can shift their consciousness to any body, taking control of it and making the body generate an illusory face and build corresponding to their preferences. While posessing a body, they have a strength and dexterity similar to the agents from that movie The Matrix. That's in addition to their genius-level intelligence." "So how does one kill a guy like Tau?" "You have to destroy the crystal in which his body normally resides. Once you do that, he's trapped in his current body. Kill the body, and bam, he's dead." Doug groans. "Okay, looks like we may have to go crystal-hunting later. When we destroy Tau's crystal, I hope he doesn't go into one of my friends." "Yes," says Rho. "I hope so, too." The screen goes blank.

**RP ENDS HERE**
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Monday, June 7, 1999 09:03:01 PM
IP: pool-207-205-151-92.dlls.grid.net

**Glimmer comes back in for a sec**

Sorry if this is a double post but there is something stuck in my head.

Forget the gargoyles movie, forget new gargoyles series. What the world needs now is GARGOYLES ON ICE!!

This is not an original idea. Gargoyles were apart of Disney on Ice(94 or 95?) I didn't believe my niece when she told me she had just finished watching skating gargoyles. Then she showed me the booklet she had gotten from the show. Sure enough, Gargoyles meets Ice Capades. I almost wish I had blown my cash and gone to see it myself.

The mouse will stoop to any level for merchandising.

**Glimmer promises not to show her face again until tomorrow**
Glimmer again
Monday, June 7, 1999 07:57:46 PM
IP: 53.las-vegas-01-02rs.nv.dial-access.att.net

**Glimmer pops into the CR**

Airwolf is back on! I don't really remember much about this show other than its kickin helicopter(does Mr. X own one of these?) and I always thought that Stringfellow Hawk was a kewl name. Then again, that's probably all there is to it.
Blue Thunder vs. Airwolf: Who would win?

Connect the stars(and don't yell at me for spelling names wrong) Francias Ford Coppala.. Go
Drop down a few limbs on his family tree to Nicholas Cage who starred with Meg Ryan in City of Angels. Meg Ryan was in Courage Under Fire with Lou Diamond Philips. Lou also starred in Souix City opposite Salli Richardson. And if you don't know Richardson's tie in to Gargs go back to start and lose a turn.
David G.> Umm.. the queen is a rose and her subjects are bees?

SJ> Sorry I was so brief but I wrote that running out the door. The whole Time-Life Enchanted World books look pretty good. I'll check some more out next week and let ya know if they're any good. Oh, and I was a fan of Silk Stalkings too.

Aaron> <Had a sudden image of Elisa saying this> ROTFLMAO

Green Baron> I find your RP use of Father Dowling highly amusing:)

The price Othello and Desdemona paid? How about the fact that they are now weaker than Coldsteel. How are they going to stop him? Or the fact they can no longer protect their clan during the day. Imagine how guilty they would feel if tomorrow afternoon all the other clan members were shattered.

And on that note: Spoilers
Oh my God! The stuffy is possesed!
It's good to see an ep dealing with the emotional state of the characters. Not that I'm putting down the action stories. I just think that an ep furthering the developement of the old characters is overdo. After all, nothing stays the same forever. And nobody told Richard how his brother died? I like the Matt and Sara interaction and the wasy Morgan is ever so slowly being introduced to the main fold. I read this story over nine hours ago and the rest of the details are swirling together. I've got to read it again and then if anything else catches my eye I'll write some mini spoilers. But my initial opinion is 7.5/10 stars.
End Spoilers

Gee, It's kinda slow today.

Two more weeks to Summer Solstice!!

**Glimmer departs from the CR, waving good bye to all the other newbies**
Glimmer
Boulder City, NV
Monday, June 7, 1999 07:24:20 PM
IP: 179.las-vegas-03-04rs.nv.dial-access.att.net

Demona is going through a lot right now? Excuse me, who is it that almost died?
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Monday, June 7, 1999 06:59:35 PM
IP: fltg3-ppp3.fltg.net

Hi folks. I'm back again. There was some stuff I forgot before. First of all, another good series/one shot/fanfic idea occured to me recently - Immortal Legacy - a series exploring the immortal members of the Gargoyles univrese. There's a lot to work with. Demona/Macbeth, some of the Egyptian characters from Timedancer who's names elude me at the moment, Merlin, various Illuminati... The list goes on. Instead of a full series, this could be a recurrent theme in Timedancer (Though stories involving Demona's past might be tricky). The idea is to play around with the thousand years when the Manhattan clan was frozen, and to do some nice historical fiction with a steady cast.

The other thing I was going to say relates to Demona, so:
*** AFTERMATH 1 SPOILER WARNING *** (Just in case)
Demona has to be going through a lot right now. In her mind, vengance was what made her strong. She had to be strong to survive, and to survive she had to eleminate her enemies... (It's a nasty cycle). Now she's been fully confronted with the fact that she doesn't really want revenge anymore. That's going to leave a void she doesn't know how to refill. Also, as her priorities change, she's going to be overwhelmed by remorse for her past. I'd be willing to guess that this is why she wanted to leave Manhattan for a while. Even though she loves Angela, seeing her is a reminder of how she wasted and abused the last thousand years. She's also being drawn back to her clan (Who, I've said before, are the heart of her campaign of revenge), but doesn't think she's worthy of their love. Feeling unworthy makes her feel weak...(back to those cycles again).
*** End SPOILERS ***

Let's see, there was something else, but I can't remember it right now. Oh well.

No guesses on the riddle yet?
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Monday, June 7, 1999 05:40:36 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

Here's an evil thought. Garlon thinks Elisa, and Goliath destroyed Madoc, blames them for it, and decides to take revenge. And before anyone points out it was Demona who destroyed Madoc, Garlon wasn't there, and doesn't know that.
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Monday, June 7, 1999 05:32:29 PM
IP: fltg3-ppp3.fltg.net

Test emergency text-only browser access.... Sorry; this is a test.
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Public Library, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada [using Lynx]
Monday, June 7, 1999 05:23:10 PM
IP: freenet.edmonton.ab.ca

Hey, I got a short connection (I think!):
Seth Green - GO!
Seth Green (Scott Evil) was in "Austin Powers" with Carrie Fisher (the therapist), who was in "Star Wars" with Mark Hamill, who is The Joker on "Batman: The Animated Series," where Tom Wilson was Tony Zucco, and he played Matt Bluestone in "Gargoyles." Okay, so maybe it's a little TOO short... :-P But it just popped into my head because so many people in here have posted their versions. *g*

Jenniren> Thanks for clearing up the Beth and Coyote thing. I remember reading that excerpt, but I didn't really think about it that much. The mentorship idea makes sense.

Kitainia> Welcome back. :-)

Welcome Newbies!

*****MORE COMMENTS ON "AFTERMATH PART I"*****
Titainia: I agree with the person (sorry, can't remember who) who thinks that she's basically benevolent. She's not as insensitive as Oberon. And she is probably just as powerful as him.

Demona: Okay, I read that section of the ep again, and she says she was crying because she was thinking of leaving Manhattan - and Angela - "for a while." I think there may be something else that's bothering her though, or she's not telling Angela everything about why she was considering leaving.

Othello and Desdemona: I felt their "transformation" was sudden, but maybe it's good that something goes right in the Gargoyles Universe every once in a while. *g*

Elisa: Hmm, she does end up suffering often, doesn't she? She's like a weirdness magnet... she finds out about the Gargoyles, ends up actually falling in love with one, her brother gets mutated, her sister is a magic-user-in-training, etc.
*****END COMMENTS ON "AFTERMATH PART I" AND POST*****
Blue Caeru
Monday, June 7, 1999 04:54:06 PM
IP: spider-wc052.proxy.aol.com

*Arianna appears.*
Hi, all! Miss me? *ignores the incredible silence.*
RL got me for awhile, but now ... I'm back!

Hmmm...noticed the six degrees of Kevin Bacon thing that you people were doing. Interesting. I'd try it but I'm at a loss for movie stars who weren't in Gargoyles already. Only one I can think of Sean Connery, who was in "Darby O'Gill and the Little People", which was produced by Disney, who produced Gargoyles, but that really doesn't work very well.

On an only slightly related topic. I've been on a Highlander kick lately. And I found an awesome song by Queen that was based on it. "Who Wants to live forever?" It kind of reminded me of Demona. Or perhaps more appropriately of MacBeth. Talk about someone who would understand that sentiment.

Anyway.

Oracle> Welcome to the realm of total and complete insanity.

Wilek> You didn't happen to get my e-mail did you? My computer's been acting up. Again. It has about one more chance before I destroy it.

Well, I've got to go. I've got exams this week...very not fun. Oh, well. Later!
*Arianna disappears, humming "Who wants to live forever."*

Lady Arianna of Annwn
Monday, June 7, 1999 04:25:29 PM
IP: hil-qbu-ppo-vty7.as.wcom.net

I'm back from DC !
Man, am I going to be busy or what ?
For my birthday I got the Ricky Martin cd, Britney Spears cd, Big Willie style, and Blackstreet : Finally.
One of the songs from the Ricky Martin cd is called " I Count the Minutes" I listened to that song all the way to DC. I reminded me of Robby and I.
**smiles and wraps her arms around his neck** It did. **kisses**

This world don't turn when you're not in my arms
The sun don't shine whenever I'm without you
And there's an empty space inside my heart
When you're gone
And whenever you're gone, it's too long
And the waiting is driving me crazy
Baby, I'm not alive
Till you're here by my side, oh

CHORUS
I count the minutes
I count the hours
I count the seconds
Till you're here by my side again
And every minute(every minute)
Goes on for hours(hours)
Until you're with me
Till I look in your eyes again
And time is standing still till you're here with me
I need your love to set me free, set me free
Each night's a lifetime when I'm not with you
And every day just seems to take forever
I'm missing when I should be kissing you
I can't wait
'Cause I live for the love that we make
I can't breathe till I feel you beside me
And I'm lost in the dark
Till you're here in my arms, oh

REPEAT CHORUS

I can't wait a minute more
Just to touch you
Cause I love you baby
Don't make me stay away from you too long
'Cause this waiting is driving me crazy
Baby I'm not alive
Till you're here by my side
Here by my side

REPEAT CHORUS

**smiles and kisses Robby one more time before leaving**
Heather - [kheetor84@aol.com]
Monday, June 7, 1999 03:56:57 PM
IP: abd8f859.ipt.aol.com

I'll have a full post later, but I just wanted to point out something I just realized about Phantom Menace.

Threepio was not forced into the movie. I do believe Lucas had always planned for Anakin to build Threepio. Why do I think this? Think back to Empire Strikes Back. In it, there's a scene where Vader prevents Bobba Fett from shooting Chewbacca, who is carrying a partially dismantled Threepio. Hmm. Sheds a bit of new light on that scene don't it?
Robby
Monday, June 7, 1999 03:52:41 PM
IP: spider-wj054.proxy.aol.com

RP WARNING and brief lesson in what a really nice Church looks like!!
**St. James Catholic Church
Chicago, Illinois

Fr. Dowling, Sr. Steve, and the Catholic schoolgirl scouts are now lined up against the evil progressives. Ave Maria points her rosary at Sr. Steve giving her a super-sized ruler for battle (proper nun gear) while the other four scouts use their rosary power to restore the Church to it's original grandeur. Most of the Call to Action hippies have fled like cowards leaving only Sr. Sue, Bishop Gumbleton, Archbishop Weakland, Ted Kennedy, and Tom Harkin. Sr. Steve takes up her ruler and flings it at Ted Kennedy while he makes some lewd comments. Teddy flies into a holy water fountain which sets his hair on fire. Meanwhile, Brigitte points her roasry at Mary's altar cleaning it and adding thousands of roses and beautiful flowers along with ten rows of candles and a crown of rare roses on Mary's head.
Angelica points her rosary at the folding chairs turning them into mahogany pews with intricate religious designs and kneelers at the back of each pew with royal blue velevet seat covers and royal blue velvet covers on the kneelers.

Bernadette points her rosary to the center of the church where there is an ugly table with some stale wine and a stale loaf of bread. Suddenly, the table changes to a beautifully decorated lower altar which is attached to an even more beautiful high altar with candles for benedictions and adorations, as well as a monstrance for both events at the top. Above them is an intricately designed crucifix showing an accurate portrayal of the crucifiction that would bring tears to the eyes of anyone, regardless of their religious beliefs. The glass of stale wine becomes a jewel-encrutsed platinum chalice with red wine to match the wedding at Canaan. The stale loaf, becomes a jewel-encrusted gold plate full of unleavened hosts.

Therese spins around the church firing her rosary at the walls and windows showing a beautiful portrayal of the stations of the cross as well as adorning the windows with stain glass designs of the mysteries of teh rosary form Gabriel's announcemnet to Mary to Mary's coronation as queen of Heaven.

Ave Maria points her roasry to the floor cleaning it and turning the ratty carpet to a new fresh blue carpeting that covers the church.

Fr. Frank takes a relic out fo his pocket, kisses it,a nd places it in the reliquary on the altar. He then takes out aholy water super-soaker and a communion pom pom gun and fires both at Senator Harkin, until he dissapears in a ball of flame.

Ted Kennedy runs out the door screaming, and the three remaining scowl at the restoration job, and then point their orange disks to the sky and dissapear.

"Well, thanks for the help, girls."
"Anytime Father."
"Let's celebrate, but first Mass. By the way, do anyof you want to go to Confession?"
"Yeah, let's clean ourselves first. It may be slightly worng to laugh when Ted Kennedy caught on fire."
Everyone bursts out laughing and then apologize to God for laughing in his house.**
END that RP Session

How's that for a long RP?

Kitainia> Welcome back

Paul> Are you saying that good and evil are realtive, or just that Demona is neither?

Shogun> Actually, OJ is closer to Gargoyles than you think. Steven Weber was in Dracula and he plays Brian Hackett on Wings. Tony Shahloub (Antonio) played the Emir in Grief.
OJ-Leslie Nielson-Steven Weber-Tony Shalhoub. I guess we need a white Bronco on TGS :)

Oracle> Welcome.

Batya> Click on my name for the article about Jar Jar and Watto. I agree with you, but the PC troopers have to find soemthing to whine about. Lord knows what those critics would think of anything Mel Brooks did :)

Pistoff> Ever considered trucking? You may hate it, but at least you could make some decent money and meet some really cheesy trucker women :)

Natalie Portman-Go!

Natalie Portman was a guest on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, which used to be hosted by Carig Killborn and one of his guests was Richard Greico (Dracon)

Really scary thought for a TV series>

The world is in danger. All the superheroes unionized and they went on strike, since they turned bad when they started their union. Now, the world only has three guardians to defend them form evil. Vinnie Gregarino, Joxur the Mighty, and Jar Jar Binks.

Now, I must go as I see rocks flying :)

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Monday, June 7, 1999 03:40:30 PM
IP: 141.164.64.119

Hi Oracle. I didn't notice any "another stupid newbie" looks when I first posted, but then again my first post was about the Pole Position cartoon...

Now that I think about it, nobody told me to check my sanity at the door, either, not that I had much left.

Now, on to my commentary:
*** Spoilers for Aftermath 1 ***
Othello & Desdemona: I personally would have used the names from Taming of the Shrew instead, but I'm twisted that way. I also have to agree that their return to flesh seemed a little too easy. On the other hand, Titania doesn't seem to be cruel enough to have returned them to their cybernetic bodies. She's subtle about it, but she really seems to have everybody's best interests at heart.

Alex: Anybody but me scared about when this kid starts throwing tantrums?

*** End Spoilers ***

Titania: There's been some talk lately about Titania's personality. I'd like to chime in with a bit of insight. Titania is at least as powerful as any of the Children, and potentially as powerful as Oberon. If she wanted to, she could solve everybody's problems with a wave of her hand. The thing is, then everybody would start to become dependant on her, instead of solving their own problems. That doesn't really help, does it?

Oracle raised a good point, though. Here's my take on the situation. Titania was really the one who wanted Alex. Oberon was trying to please his wife. For Titania, this had two advantages. First, she arranged for Alex to have powerful protectors, and second, she found out how far she could push Oberon (a long way). Now that Puck is dead, the deal IS technically off, but I don't think Titania cares. Even if she does, she has demonstrated enough love for her daughter that she wouldn't insist on having Alex taken to Avalon right away.

On the subject of Titania, here's a bit of poetry. This is a riddle poem. I'll send the answer some time tomorrow, or confirm somebody's correct answer. The first person to guess correctly wins ABSOLUTLY NOTHING, but I will send you more riddles or one of my short stories to read if you want. Actually, I'll do that anyway since I'm an attention starved neurotic.

The Faerie Queen, garbed in crimson
Awakens with the day.
And her subjects, all on fragile wings
Draw near, their court to pay.
And she gives them gifts of essence,
Which they, flying, take away
(And transmute it into treasure,
in their magic, faerie way)
But beware the red robed Faerie Queen,
She'll prick you if she may.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Monday, June 7, 1999 03:33:29 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

Well, this is my first post here, though I have been lurking around for quite a while. I'm not really sure whether I will need to ask forgiveness for my comments or not, being a newbie, but I will just to be on the safe side.

Anyway, I must admit that until recently my interest was slightly waning, but with the episodes posted in the last few weeks, my interest is back at full swing. My need to suddenly know everything got me reading all of the posts over the last two weeks, and that led me here. Well what do you know, there is a logical reason for me to do this.

Since this is my first post, I have a lot to catch up on. But I'll keep it quick. Crossroads 1 $ 2, great, you've tied up loose ends, set the stage for season three, and finally given us a point to quest. The Darkest Hour 1 & 2, again, one of the best yet. The only thing I wish were different is that there is no part 3, 4, or 5, and so on. There was som much that could have been said without possibly making the story drag any. But I guess all those loose ends will be tied up I hope.

Now the big discussion right now seems to be the appearant use of Deus ex Machina in the Coldstone/Coldfire transformations. Well if you want, or not, I don't care, I'm writing it any way, !whew!, deep breath, my opinion. Well all I have to say is that while it might not score well in a comp class, I see no problem with it. I think they deserve to have something good come easily every once in a while. As for the price they will pay, well, I for some reason see a big two parter coming up when the confrontation with Coldsteel finaly comes around. Not everything has to paid for on delivery.

Well, I think I've rambled long enough. I'll sign off now and see what happens.

P.S. There is no way you can take more of my sanity than has already been taken. I am insane beyond comprehension, and I mean that literally too.
Forrest - [fdavids@clemson.edu]
Clemson, SC, USA
Monday, June 7, 1999 03:27:52 PM
IP: 206-74-93-47.generic.clemson.edu

Deuce> It appears twisted minds think alike...
Zath
Monday, June 7, 1999 02:55:45 PM
IP: ns9-04.viptx.net

Oracle> Those aren't "oh gawd, another newbie" looks. They're "heh, heh, heh, fresh meat" looks ; P Since you claim to lurk here, you already know how things are. Please, feel free to participate in our little den of insanity more often.
Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Monday, June 7, 1999 02:51:12 PM
IP: ns9-04.viptx.net

** through the laughter, Deuce manages to stand up **

I will not be able to go to Tarzan now. Damn you, Aaron! (j/k)

Oracle> Not "oh no, another newbie", but "oh yessss... fresh blood...." Or something like that. Please allow me to relieve you of your sanity so you may permanently join us. *holds up vaccum cleaner feeding into a glowing jar*

"Get off, get off. GET OFF!"

** falls over laughing again **
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Monday, June 7, 1999 02:48:40 PM
IP: webcache.telusplanet.net

OK, here I am, a constant lurker and reader. I'm deciding to post so if I look totally lame, don't tell me. O.o

****Spoilers****

Well, not spoilers per se, but a question. If Puck is dead, wouldn't Alex have to go back to Avalon? He has no teacher to guide him anymore and as far as I can remember, that was the main reason for Oberon letting Alex stay with his parents. Puck was there to teach him, Oberon was happy (sorta) and Mom and Dad were happy. Umm..so now that happy little deal is broken. Granted, supposedly Puck is not dead but Titania doesn't know that. Anyway, just wondering if this was an oversight or it is going to be dealt with at all.

****End Spoilers/Question Thing****

Thats my debut. *bows and ignores the "oh gawd, another newbie" looks* :)
Oracle
Monday, June 7, 1999 02:32:54 PM
IP: dyn1-tnt2-153.milwaukee.wi.ameritech.net

Kitania> Welcome back

SPOLIERS FOR AFTERMATH PART 1
I really liked this episode. When Elisa told Goliath about Demona cured her he did not kmow what to think, also it is good that Elisa and Goliath are going to give her another chance. I really liked the Coldstone and Coldfire scenes a while their I thought that they were done for. It was nice of Titania to give Coldstone and Coldfire to give back their lives and their true Gargoyle form back to them. At the end of this ep the Clan did not now what to think of Coldstone and Coldfire or should I say Ohhello and Desdemona. Also great pic of Othello and Desdemon and Titania
END SPOLIERS

New topic> Sense Coldstone and Coldfire are back to their true
gargoyle form and they are alive again can they still have chilldren? I think they can.
Lawrence Stone - [Craft_Celtic@yahoo.com]
Chillicothe, Ohio, U.S.A.
Monday, June 7, 1999 02:29:35 PM
IP: chil-ras3-3-cs-21.dial.bright.net

** Deuce stumblies in, tears rolling down his face, which is bright red. He's laughing. **

Aaron> ["Had sudden image of Elisa saying this."] And then... I got this picture... Goliath checking out Elisa's legs under her Beauty dress....

** falls over on the floor laughing, and doesn't bother to get up. **
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Monday, June 7, 1999 02:13:29 PM
IP: webcache.telusplanet.net

Course everything has it's price, but the way the Gargoyles universe seems to run, the price is often greater then, and not what anyone expected.So I have no doubt that Desdemona, and Orthello have yet to pay the full price to be flesh, and blood gargoyles once more.The question is, why is Elisa paying such a high price for her love of Goliath? Is it a down payment for what is to come?
Gyre - [wseeley@epix]
Monday, June 7, 1999 01:34:21 PM
IP: fltg2-ppp42.fltg.net

Yeahhhhhhhhhh Boyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Aaron backflips into the CR, wearing a chainmail shirt. He thinks briefly about killing DC but decides he's in too good a mood, and besides, Jack Hammer's not done peeling him yet. Best not to get in Jack's way.

I had the best weekend. The Spurs swept to the NBA finals, the Knicks are up 2-1 on a miracle finish, Andre Agassi completed a career grand slam, Steffi (The Wererat) Graff beat Martina (The Mallrat) Hingis, I ditched my brother to DC (the city, not the gremlin. Although..) for the next two days so I get to use the computer,(finally) and Gold Digger 50 came out. A good weekend all round. Also, Gadzooks is the coolest store.

Okay, sorry to be so hyper. On to replies.

JEB> Rastafarians are (I think) those who worship Bob Marley as a god. They tend to be from the Caribean and have long dreadlocks.

Jenniren>hee hee, ductape. Aaron conjures wicked image of Owen b!tching out the castle cleaning crew, who're standing next to Goliath, who's missing an arm.

Owen: "Don't just stand there! Get some ductape."

Wilek> The story where Goliath curses is called "Halapena My @$$! But last time I checked, only half of it was on file in the archive.

Pistoff> Michael Wincott? Was that the French guy with the really cool voice? My fav line from that movie is still when the guy from Beauty and the Beast (whose name escapes me right now) says "Don't look at me, ironsides, I'm not a pilot! I just hurt people!"

JackaL> <M-O-O-N> L-M-A-O! I've always wanted to see Broadway do that bit.

SJ> It seems like everything's being cancelled or wrapping up, doesn't it? Soon TV will be an even vaster wasteland.

Bad Guys> I'd base them in LA. After New York is out, where do you send semi-reformed criminals to on covert missions?

I finally saw a preview for Disney's Tarzan. Best line: "I was saved by a flying wildman in a loincloth!" Had sudden image of Elisa saying this. Couldn't stop laughing for five minutes.

Must go now and read Aftermath.

Later.

Aaron wanders away, humming "Atomic" by Sleeper.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Monday, June 7, 1999 01:31:56 PM
IP: ppp-3.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

****TGS SPOILERS****
Aftermath Part 1: This was a good episode with a lot of character developement. It was well written and entertaining. The scenes with Alex were especially well done. Perhaps the price involved in the Cold Duo's transformation has yet to be revealed. The illustration was great.
****END SPOILERS****

Kitania> Welcome back!!

Peter - [peter_bijl@hotmail.com]
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Monday, June 7, 1999 12:00:13 PM
IP: kam-53-0135.direct.ca

**COMMENTS ON CURRENT TGS EPISODE**

After huge battle episodes like THE DARKEST HOUR, it's good to get a quiet character driven episode like AFTERMATH 1. There are a lot of good points in this episode.

I loved the Matt/Sara sections. It was good that they didn't just come out and start talking about everything, or that they suddenly fell into each other's arms. What we got instead was extremely realistic and very well done. I'm looking forward to seeing how Matt and Sara's relationship will be progressing from here.

I loved the Owen/Puck hints that were given by Alex through out the episode. Why is it that parents always think that children don't understand anything that is going on? Alex, being a child, has levels of perception that any adult lost a long, long time before.

(Anyway, if Xanatos stopped to think for a second then everything would fall into place. After all, if I had been a long lived shapeshifting trickster and I had about a second or two before I knew I was going to die, what would I do but move my consciousness somewhere else? And who and where was avaliable at the time? Fox, Alex, and Alex's stuffed bear. So if I was Xanatos, I probably would have come to the conclusion that Owen/Puck was either inside Fox's head, Alex's head, or in the stuffed animal that Alex keeps insisting is "Uncle Owen". Alternately since I know I'm dealing with a shapeshifting trickster, I could say that he switched places with the stuffed animal and that the body in the morgue is a transformed stuffed animal while the real Owen/Puck is in Alex's arm's, still close by, protecting him, and keeping his promise to never leave him.)

My major problem with this episode is what happened to Coldstone and Coldfire. Having Titania appear and transform them into flesh and blood gargoyles just goes against everything that the Gargoyles Universe is built on, mainly the rule that "Nothing is every easy" and "All magic has a heavy price". They were hurt and then a magic being shows up and not only heals them but restores them to true life. It just feels wrong. The two of them were trapped in an unhappy existance with dull senses and no way to consumate their love. (They weren't exactly anatomically correct.) It's not fair but then again who said life was fair? They were alive, they managed to cheat death, but the price of it was the type of existance they were forced to endure afterwards in those two new bodies. The Gargoyles Universe is so enjoyable because of the amount of realism that is in it. Even though it is a universe that deals with stone by day gargoyles, and magical creatures and stuff like that, there is a realism in the way things happen. Goliath didn't always win, and there wasn't always a happy ending. As it stands now, there is only one casualty of the Unseelie war in Manhattan, and from hints given, he might not actually be dead. I like Coldstone and Coldfire but it might have been better to let them get killed, to say that this war truly had some casualties instead of having everyone escape by the skin of their teeth.

Now that they are flesh and blood, what is the magical price that they are paying for this new life? All magic has a price. Look at a few examples:

For Macbeth and Demona to be immortal, they have to feel each other's pain. And that's not the only price the Immortality exacts. They are forced to become eternal wanderers, eternally alone, both linked to a person they hate while everyone they love is mortal and slowly wither around them.

Demona can function in daylight but in order to become that, she has to undergo a painful transformation twice a day.

To gain the power of the Eye of Odin is to become corrupt.

Time travel is not only useless because you can't change the past but the Phoenix Gate (before Goliath got rid of it in FUTURE TENSE) plays games with you. Remember that Goliath almost got killed because the gate landed him in front of a 1940's airplane in M.I.A.

Even Avalon exacts a heavy price in it's magic. The price for the use of it's magic in AVALON was the life of the Magus. And it's power sents a traveller where it needs to be, holding them in an almost endless journey that doesn't even free you when you reach the destination you desire. (Goliath and company got home and what was the first thing they had to do? Another mission Avalon sent them on.)

Now Coldstone and Coldfire are flesh and blood. But what is the price they paid? They are vulnerable to Coldsteel? What kind of a price is that? Compared to everything I listed, it's nothing. They can no longer see the sun? Again, that's not much of a price when weighed against the typical price that magic exacts.

They were in an interesting position previously because they were alive and yet not alive. Deeply in love and yet almost unable to feel the touch of the other's hand. Now they are just two gargoyles who overcame some hardship and now can go on to a completely normal life. They could go to Avalon and be reunited with Gabriel and perhaps live a happier version of what might have happened to Goliath and Demona if she hadn't crushed all the love he felt for her. As what they were, it would have been interesting. Would Oberon have let two beings with so much iron in them on Avalon at all? How would Gabriel react to his half-alive parents? How would Ophelia react to her unliving in-laws? Now they are just a normal gargoyle couple. They can come and go as they want to Avalon without any problems. They can perhaps relate better to Gabriel because they are now flesh. What is there to do with them now besides watch them argue occasionally, fight Colsteel, and wonder what they think of Jello now that they can once again eat?

The second thing that really really bothers me is that they automatically decided to change their names. Coldstone is now Othello and Coldfire is Desdemona. I don't like that at all. It's like the years they spent as cyborg and robot were all a dream and now they can continue their lives as if nothing had happened. Something did happen. They can't forget it. And there are still consequences of it. They should have kept the names they had as reminders of the long and hard road that they had to go down in the modern era. Now they feel like they are almost completely new characters.

(Also, I want to see what Coldstone will say when he finds out the actual details of Shakespeare's play. I mean Othello did kill Desdemona. That alone should convince Coldstone not to take the name.)

**END OF COMMENTS ON CURRENT TGS EPISODE**
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Monday, June 7, 1999 10:54:17 AM
IP: 9.new-york-30-35rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

ATTENTION! I need some help...The Darkest Hour Pt 2 isn't in the archives yet. Someone please give me the link quick!
SOROW
Monday, June 7, 1999 10:11:42 AM
IP: usr11-dialup68.mix1.irving.cw.net

What a Monday, what a world.... "What's with today, today?"

Jenniren> ["...Goliath would have died."] Um... yeah. Inflict that much damage on anybody's face, and they won't be around to laugh about it. The question now is how much damage must be inflicted before they don't wake up at all?

Mandolin> ["...in Haim Saban's little world, emotion, plot, and drama have no place in a children's show."] Even when he _tries_, it falls flat. There's a lovely little show on late Saturday nights called "Breaker High". It's a teen soap opera where the main characters go to school on a boat, and are constantly dating and breaking up with each other. It SUCKS. (And yet, I watch it, because there is nothing better on after Deepwater Black).

SOROW> Welcome back! We missed you!

Remember those Mastercad commercials we did a while back? THEY'RE DOING ONE FOR AUSTIN POWERS!!! Hehehehe....

Zath> ["Wasn't there an Ewoks cartoon show about a decade ago?"] Mention that again and I will not be held responsible for my actions. ;-)

And that's all I have to say about that....
Deuce - [deuce@softhome.net]
Monday, June 7, 1999 10:10:24 AM
IP: webcache.telusplanet.net

Blue Caeru> I inferred Coyote's relationship with Beth's grandmother mainly from one of the scenes in "A Call to Arms." Here's a couple of excerpts from Coyote's speech to Beth in the scene just after he teaches her to sprout squash seeds:

"Once I told you yours was a family of Qaletaqa - Guardians of the People, remember?...Each member of your family has chosen a Guardian role. Derek is a guardian of people. A protector. Elisa is a guardian of justice. You are a guardian of knowledge..."

"Do you know how to make knukquivi?"
"Lamb and hominy stew?" Beth asked puzzled. "Sure. Grandma used to make it when we'd visit sometimes."
"She made great knukquivi," Coyote recalled.
"You knew my grandmother?" Beth sat bolt upright, her exhaustion temporarily forgotten.
"Oops. I shouldn't have said that." Coyote admitted. "Let's just say I've had a close association with your family for a very long time."
*****
This scene takes place about 4/5 of the way through "A Call to Arms" if you want to go back and look for it.
And then in "Darkest Hour" Beth and a few others keep the Unseelie from discovering the portal to Avalon that exists in Arizona. If Beth's ancestors haven't been carrying out the duty of concealing the portal throughout successive generations then I must have misread a lot. I believe Coyote has been a mentor to past members of the Maza family, helping them develop the innate magical talent which at least some of them seem to possess. I am not sure the Maza's are the only family which Coyote has honored in this manner, since there were others who helped Beth hold off the Unseelie in "Darkest Hour" and at least some of them seemed to know the importance of what they were doing.

What, no picture of Beth or Coyote to choose? Oh well here's a picture of Ajax. Reminds me I gotta clean the sink soon.

Jenniren
Monday, June 7, 1999 10:04:13 AM
IP: user-2ivf53r.dialup.mindspring.com

<<Now, when does Garlon start causing trouble?>>

Hopefully, not for a long time. And hopefully not too much trouble. The original Gargoyles series didn't contain unseelies. Though they are a very reasonable addition, TGS should be able to find a number of interesting stories to say that don't contain them.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Monday, June 7, 1999 07:41:12 AM
IP: athe530-f064.otenet.gr

Ok I stand corrected, but I still don't see Elisa just passively taking the news that Titania refused to heal her.

As to "Aftermath prt.1", I loved it. Now, when does Garlon start causing trouble?
Gyre - [wseeley@epix.net]
Monday, June 7, 1999 07:11:20 AM
IP: fltg-ppp30.fltg.net

***RP! (FINALLY)***
(Venrik and Argent have gotten to the ground floor and are going as fast as they can without getting lost or tripping. Jewel*D is keeping up easily in the air.)
"Venrik," (Argent pants) " why are we running?"
"That thing your lizard attacked was one of Eisner's spies. If it survived to tell him I'm free and we're here before we can find your friends..." (He cuts himself off.)
"What? What's with the dramatic pause?"
"Given your feelings concerning vampires, I don't think you really need to know."
"Oh."
***MORE LATER***

WILEK> Thanks for the advice, but I'm a little confused. What do you mean by 'open pic in my browser--online, not the local copy...?'
SJ> $Nope, I don't have any suggestions, other then a good fight. Oh yeah, and a chance to explain what happened to Jewel*D and I.$
KITANIA> Welcome back! Have fun without us?

Six degrees of separation in Gargs> I'll probably waste time in History class working on that.

***CONT'D RP***
(The small group is carefully avoiding the open windows that dot a side hall. It's evening, and the decaying stone is bathed crimson. Shadows are closing in as the sun sets, but that's just a trick of the light.)
"At least it better be." (Argent mutters to Jewel*D, who nods in agreement, then begins sniffing around curiously.) "Venrik, do you know where we're going?"
"Only vaguely, I _was_ asleep when I was imprisoned. Does anything look familiar to you?"
"How would I know, we fell through a plot hole, remember?"
"What?"
"Nothing. I-" (Argent is interrupted by excited chattering from Jewel*D, who's perched on a window ledge.) "Jewel*D,- Oh!" (Spots a band of familiar figures in front of a huge door. One of them is doing a Belmont Impression. [whatever that is.])"There they are!" (Jumps out the window and hits the ground three feet below running. Jewel*D, for once, is way ahead of her.)
"Hey guys- OOF! Get offa me!"
(The 'shadows' are far from illusions.)
***STAY TUNED!***

Gotta Jet! Go Tribe!
(Four months 'till the new 'Dark Ages' eps!)
Argent (aka 'Tribe Fanatic')
stable, USA
Monday, June 7, 1999 07:07:13 AM
IP: dyn030-nas01.marietta.frognet.net

Hi everyone!!

I'm glad to be back in the CR again I've been unable to get in all weekend due to bad connection problems*pokes DC in the eye with a nearby dinner fork*other than that I had a pretty good weekend,I also got to see The Phantom Menace on Friday:-)

***AFTERMATH SPOILERS***
A great story but I do agree with Pistoff the Coldduo's rejuvination did seem to straitforward(It does not seem to go along with the nothing is easy everyhing has a price way that the gargoyles universe works,feel free to disagree with me.)other than that I loved it!:-)
***END SPOILERS***

ZATH:Wasn't there an Ewoks cartoon show about a decade ago?>>Yes there was they also had another one called Droids too if I remember right.

Gotta go bye!!

Xanathar
Melbourne, victoria, Australia
Monday, June 7, 1999 06:37:29 AM
IP: 203.29.192.74

Noticed we have a lot of console RPG players in both forums - click on my name to go to a big list of RPG cliches.

*****Spoilers for Aftermath******
After such a big 'event' piece over the last couple of weeks it's good to see that there has been no drop in the quality of either the quality of writing or the storyline. I hope the rest of the consequences surrounding the battles all over the world are followed up as well.

Hopefully this will bring the focus back onto Goliath and Elisa a little more than it has been this series as they have had little to do compared to other characters and Demona in particular, though her change throughout TGS has been interesting.
She almost left Manhattan altogether - only Angela stopped her, but it might have done her good to get away entirely and have time to re-evaluate her life.

Heh, suddenly have visions of her travelling the world on a Kung-fu/Xena-style redemption kick, learning to accept humanity.

Sorry, I was just reading last weeks suggestions for TGS spin offs :)

********* End Spoilers ********

Matt Dymond - [MDY21940@yahoo.com]
UKMonday, June 7, 1999 05:54:43 AM
IP: 195.195.164.7

SJ: Hmm ... Vinnie: The Movie? Sounds like fun. I might take a shot at it. I've already given Vinnie an interesting role in my ficverse, though he hasn't really been seen much. I'm planning to have a little fun with him and Sora and Yama sooner or later ... **evil chuckle**

AFTERMATH 1 SPOILERS

Well, they're finally getting better. The bit about Titania turning Coldstone and Coldfire into flesh-and-blood gargs was an interesting surprise, though it also felt a lot like deus x machina. It was a little too convenient, but what the hell.

SPOILERS OVER

Wilek: Sure, I would. When I said I'm "flexible," what I meant was that I'm *desperate.* I'd just wear earplugs so I wouldn't have to listen to her talk. ;) Though if I got her screaming good and loud, I'm sure I'd hear it ...

Hmm. Probably shouldn't have gone there, but I'm in a weird mood tonight. Mainly because DC kept me from hooking up for 3 solid hours tonight. I'm too tired to kill him, though. I know, I'll have Jack Hammer do it.

**DC DEATH WARNING!!**

Jack stomps into the room and zeroes in on DC

"I'm gonna put the smack-dab right on your ass!" He pulls out his cattle prod, corners DC and shocks him into submission. Then he pulls a potato peeler out of a pocket and starts to peel DC alive, starting with his toes and working up from there ... slowly ... slooooooooowly ....

Jack glances up and says, "Please bear with me. This is gonna take a while ...."

**DC DEATH TO BE CONTINUED ...**
Pistoff - [pistoff@anti-social.com]
Monday, June 7, 1999 05:11:42 AM
IP: wire-4.koalas.com

Wilek> <<Star Wars just isn't suited to episodic television>> Wasn't there an Ewoks cartoon show about a decade ago?

***** MINOR AFTERMATH SPOILERS *****
I loved the story, and most of what I have to say has already been said, so I'll just mention one of my little nit-picks... Since Lex is wearing a loincloth while he does the head-stand, does anyone else think Alex might have been laughing at something other than the funny face Lex was making? **Loud boos echo through the CR as Zath ducks a hail of rotten fruit.**
***** END SPOILERS *****

JESSE VENTURA AND ALEX TREBEK... GO!
Ventura and Trebek guest-starred as men in black in an episode of the X-Files. Ed Asner (voice of Hudson) guest-starred as a ghost in another episode of the X-Files

Hmmm... There was something else I wanted to say, but I forget what it was. I'm sure I'll remember it as soon as I turn off my computer.

Bye all.
Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Monday, June 7, 1999 02:51:31 AM
IP: ns14-06.viptx.net

*Valentine leaps back into the room after a brief look at the pic he just posted*
AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGHHH!!!!!! Remind me never to use that pic again!!!!!!

*Collapses on the floor in spasms and disappears*
Gunjack Valentine
Monday, June 7, 1999 02:00:29 AM
IP: spider-tk031.proxy.aol.com

*Valentine enters the room looking slightly pained*

Oh, dear... I�m starting to feel an unholy presence... a voice in my head that whispers ...
RP... RP...

*He turns pale as a thought strikes him*

Oh, crap! This means I�ll have to read the entire CR archive too... But not today. Hey!
The CR just turned over, didn�t it! *Waits patiently for mocking laughter to die down
from all quarters* Hey, I can�t help it. I�m new here :)

Taleweaver>>Elisa and Goliath romance> *Jumps in the audience crowd* Yeah, lets
some more Goliath and Elisa romance. *Quickly jumps back to this side before anyone
notices* One of the myths I'm trying to debunk is that once your in love the stories
over.>> My hat�s off to you, but be careful of filling the the plot with too many
relationship problems...
*Slips into �Old-timer mode*
Knew a chap once, back in Nerima, who did awesome work in the romance/action fic
department. All the right touches, except for one thing: Every one of his stories started
out w/ a new relationship crisis. Every Freaking One. It seemed like they never got
anywhere, and I was beginning to think that it might be a good idea for one of the main
characters to have a fatal accident.
Start doing that, and two things will happen: (1) Your readers will go away, and (2),
you�ll find yourself the star of a nasty revengefic. Speaking of which...

Wilek>Gunjack> <<Also, IMHO, this constitutes senseless cruelty to the characters in
question.>> You say that like it's a bad thing. >:) <<Has anybody here heard of
revengefics?>> No, but they sound interesting. :) >> You haven�t heard of revengefics?
Jeeze, you guys must not travel as much as I thought... Anyway, I think it would be better
to show than to tell. Wouldn�t want to spoil the suprise, now would I?;)

Valentine<<The year is... oh, around the time of Requiem. Demona is lonely, and sick of
watching all her loved ones pass away. But her clan loves her, and would hate to see her
die. Is there a solution that will leave everyone happy?>>
Wilek<<Make everyone immortal?>> Not quite. Here�s another trick from those crazy
Neo-Nerima days...
*Valentine pulls out a folder full of data*
Hold on to your butts, folks, cause it�s gonna get technical.
Ok, let�s look at the sitch again. The year is 2158, let�s say, so they�ve made some pretty
good advances in medical technology. �Future Tense� (My favorite ep of all time, by the
way...) shows that braintaping, or at least near-flawless personality simulation, is a reality.
Smartdrugs (For you GURPsies out there, check UTII) aren�t all that much of a stretch
either when you�ve got cloning, mutating, and the carrier virus available in the late
twentieth century. So let�s say that Demona develops a process that wipes the mind clean
of all memories, personality, and so on, leaving only a young child behind. Furthermore,
this process allows that child-mind to grow, and, barring outside interferrence, once again
become a fully functioning adult personality.
So, Demona braintapes herself, and then undergoes the Process. A short while later, a new
individual, still having access to all of Demona�s advantages, emerges from the operating
room and into the arms of her new clan. Demona�s braintape, meanwhile, is placed in
storage for a time when her wisdom and experience is needed. And so the Demona
Collective is born...

So whaddya think of that? Sorry for the length, but that idea has been stuck in my head for
the last week or two. It�s the back story to a character in one of the fics I�m planning, but
since I�ve been trying to get #1 written for the last five years and that stuff happens in #25,
nobody�ll remember by the time the story finally arrives :)

*Valentine checks his watch and frowns*

Great. Not only is my computer starting to act possessed, but I�ve still gotta get some
�Timedancer� under my belt before I go to bed. C ya

*Starts to walk out, then turns around*

By the way, if anyone would be interested in working on a quick, moderatly evil little fic,
email me. I promise, It�ll be loads of fun.;)

Gunjack Valentine - [singletn@writeme.com]
Dallas, Tx
Monday, June 7, 1999 01:50:49 AM
IP: spider-tk031.proxy.aol.com

**LONG RP HERE, YOU ARE WARNED**

In the blasted town square in Iowa, DC's molecules reform, and he lurches to his feet. "Man!" the immortal loser screams. "That death was a doozy!! I still feel messed-up, like there's part of me missing or something!" He shakes his head slowly and opens a portal to the CR. "Well, it will all be okay as long as I get back home." DC steps through the portal and walks up to his Internet command console. "Let's see, I need to feel better. I need to bother someone. Hmm, Kitainia looks good. She's about to make a post in the CR tonight, and she hasn't been there for a while. Perfect!" DC begins tapping keys. "Let's see, I'll make her browser preform an illegal operation before it even finishes booting up, that will force it to prematurely shut down. Then I'll give her busy signals, unable to establish a connection messages, connection cutoffs,..." Suddenly DC becomes aware of a shadow standing over him. He glances over his shoulder. "Hi, Kitainia. Welcome back. Wait a minute. Kitainia!!!" DC screams louder as Kitainia grabs him, slams him against the wall, and then in the most gory and violent fashion possible rips him to pieces with her teeth and claws. "Oh, the pain!" moans DC's severed head. "The pain! The pain!!" "That's right," Kitainia says, looking down at him. "And you'll get more pain if you even try to mess with my Internet activity again. Or Doug's. So don't. Got it?" DC nods as best he can. "Good." Kitainia wipes the blood off her hands, mumbles, "Loser," under her breath, and stalks back into the main CR to make a post.

**END RP 1ST HALF**

Hi everyone! <sings> This girl is back in town! Did ya miss her? This girl is back in town! <stops singing> Okay, that was pathetic, I know. :) Would have been on sooner, but a certain immortal jerkhead got in the way. Time for me to start catching up on what I missed.

First of all, thanks to all who missed me, and thanks in advance to all who will welcome me back. I missed you, too. Glad you all have become my clan, I love all of you very much. Happy first anniversary of this CR, and may it continue to stand many more years! <grin>

**BEGIN COMMENTS ON TGS EPISODES**

Darkest Hour: I enjoyed this story a lot. Great action, character development on all involved, and plot. I found myself completely caught up in the suspense of the first part, and clapping and cheering throughout the second, especially when George rang the bell, Demona saved Elisa, and at Madoc's moment of death. Very well-written episode (both parts), even though the war's fast ending had a few problems and there were so many unanswered questions and loose ends. The pics were also excellent. I give the whole episode 8/10. Everything else has already been said.

Crossroads: Good job on this episode too. It had great artwork and storyline. Brooklyn and Sata were developed well throughout the first and second parts. I also liked the development done on Gwen, Artus, Broadway, and Angela. 2153 New York is a very cool place, even with idiots like the Digital Dork and a-holes like the Chiselers running around. I wonder if there are going to be any future stories that detail a resistance movement against those who live in "heaven." A group of people assumed to be criminal riff-raff by everyone just because they have to steal food and electricity to survive. The gargoyles meet them, and learn they are just as human as anyone and don't deserve their lot in life. Wonder if anyone will carry out that creativity demon.

I also enjoyed the Harthoth-Isfet plot in this one. Wonder what Apep will do now that he's come back to life. The ending scenes where Brooklyn was forced to accept his mission and leave Sata were very poignant and emotional. I hope he gets back in her life very soon. Overall, I give Crossroads 9/10 stars. Good job on it, TGS Staff!!

Aftermath 1: This story was all character interaction and no combat, but that wasn't a problem. It developed the plot significantly, and did a good job on further developing all the characters. I liked seeing Othello and Desdemona restored to their original gargoyle forms. Other favorite moments included Goliath and Elisa's talk about Demona and decision to start giving her a chance, Matt's kiss with Sara (that one made me stand up and cheer, for a moment I thought the staff was going to make them split up! Also enjoyed the development done on theire relationship and their conversations with each other and themselves), and Lex's chat with Liz. I'm a little disappointed that we only saw the good guys in this story, and only the good guys who are in Manhattan at that, but I suppose we'll see how the other characters are recuperating from their big battle in the next part. There was also no cliffhanger, so this didn't really feel like a multi-part episode. <shrugs> Oh well, I suppose that doesn't really matter, right? 9.5/10, great job!!

I'm also sure now that Owen is inside Alexander's fuzzy. Hope he comes back in full very soon.

**END COMMENTS ON TGS EPS**

Happy birthday to everyone whose birthday I missed, welcome to all newcomers!!

Robby: $ Good RP bits and story with Lonny last week. I liked his character and felt suprisingly saddened by your evil clone's death. I'll miss him, thanks for the entertainment. $

Tim: Congrats on finishing high school. Good luck to all who still have exams.

Christine: Congrats on finishing Black Roses. Hope I get to read it soon. Thanks for the naughty entertainment you provided with Demon Whispers. Also you and the other contributors did a great job you on this quarter's Avalon Mists. I liked the Party on Avalon stories, the artwork, and the cartoons the best.

Congrats to Batya and Alex on their wedding. If you two are reading this, I hope you two enjoy your long and happy life together now that you have formally become a family. :)

Demona: I am among the many who like her better changed than I did back when she was a bad guy. True, she did change very quickly, but a lot has happened in her life to motivate it. IMO, that excuses the speed. Hope she continues to evolve.

Buffy Season Finale: My family and I were very disappointed when they canceled its showing. We had planned to sit down and watch it in front of the TV. Then Doug e-mailed us that website link with the RealPlayer files, and the next night we were able to sit down and watch it in front of the computer screen. :) Fun, fun! I enjoyed the episode very much, especially the end battle and the character development done on Buffy, Willow, Wesley, Angel, and "Key Guy." Great plot, excellent ending to the season. Hope that the next season of Buffy remains uncensored and is at least as good as this one was.

Xenogears: Loved that game myself. Excellent characters, animation, and storyline. The action was also done very well, especially the Gear battles. Hmm, maybe I should start playing the game again now that I have some free time. :)

Todd: I too do not blame you for the flaws of TGS's Unseelie plot. You did a wonderful job in writing it, as did all the TGS Staff. Yes, there were bad parts, but there were good parts as well. And IMO, there were enough good parts to excuse the bad ones. So you have nothing to be sorry for and moan about. But I think you already know that, right? :)

Firestorm: Sorry that my life puzzles you so much. If you have any questions about it, I am now back in Austin and able to answer them. So please, feel free to ask away! I will try to give you an honest and complete response. <grin>

Doug: Well-said response to Firestorm, and good comments on the way the Unseelie War has and might should have gone. I missed you a lot in the past two weeks, as you know. :) Glad we're finally back together.

Traveler: Just so you know, my mate is VERY dissapointed in you, and does not appreciate your continued promises and failure to deliver. Hope you send in the you-know-what very soon so he can stop worrying about it and put all three of our minds at ease.

Welcome back to all who left us temporarily! That includes Gooch, Demona Taina, TRC, Stephen, and a few others. Hope Ravyn joins the ranks of comebackers soon. I also wonder what's happened to Fleur.

Batman Jiggilypuff Commercial: I agree, it is hilarious. The best crossover commercial of the many WB has. Wonder if they're going to top it somehow, and doubt they can. :)

JEB: You'll be missed in the time you're gone.

Wilek: $ I like your RP plans for WF3. Feel free to have your Administrator interrupt the little duel I'm going to have with him at the end of this. She can assimiliate the guy, and recieve my thanks for the save of life. :) $

Okay, that's all for tonight. Boy, am I glad to be back! Later everyone!!!

**RESUME RP**

Kitainia walks through a portal that opens behind her, appearing next to the Onslaught outside Crown Point's town hall. "There you are!" Stephanie calls to her. "Did you post?" "I did," Kitainia smiles. "Where's Doug?" "He's in the donut shop across the street, using a holovid linkup to discuss battle plans with Agent Rho," Steph replies with a grin. "Where else would one find a future cop?" Kitainia glares at her. "Stephanie, please. Doug is not going to be a Chief Wiggum type." "I know," Stephanie smirks. "I just enjoy teasing him. See you in a minute, I'm going to go see DX about making some improvements on the strength and lightness of my sword." Kitainia waves to her sister as she runs off, then nods at the other Ravens (who are gathered around the Onslaught, talking and checking their gear). "Ruth wandered off," Tom calls. "Can you try and find her?" "Sure," says Kitainia. She heads across the street, then suddenly hears a scream from an alley close by. "That sounded like Ruth!" Kitainia cries, rushing into the alley. Inside it, she finds Wilek Fieger III, standing over Ruth's unconscious form with his laser gun and energy blade drawn. "Ah, my brother's killer!" the evil clone laughs. "Prepare to see him in hell." "You prepare," says Kitainia, whipping out her own laser gun. "Because you're going down!!!" WF3 roars a battle cry and leaps at her, soon the two are involved in a huge fight.

**SCREEN FADES OUT, TO BE CONTINUED, END RP**
Kitainia - [dierdre34@yahoo.com]
Monday, June 7, 1999 01:48:10 AM
IP: pool-209-138-62-60.dlls.grid.net

**RP!**

[At Crown Point...Djedi: "Avatar, this is the Ice Dagger. The Onslaught has arrived safely at Crown Point. Ran into a bit of a roadblock along the way, but we handled it. New orders?" Rho: "Hm...has anything happened at Crown Point just yet?" Djedi: "Nothing that you didn't send. <shudder> It's a little creepy seeing an entire countryside covered with Borg and Daleks, with the sky above choked with Imperial hardware. I keep expecting to be shot down or assimilated." Rho: "What works, works. Patrol the area until further notice."]

**PAUSE RP!**

Deuce> <<Jackal sprouted a chisel and re-carved Goliath's face to be an exact copy of his own.>> ACK.

Pistoff> <<That got me to thinking ... hmm ... a female Jar Jar ... okay, sure, I'd do her.>> No, you wouldn't. I encountered female Gungans in the Phantom Menace PC game. They're even more annoying than the males, and they don't look much different.

Jeniren> Hm, interesting dictionary. I'll have to remember it...

Argent> <<Now can anyone share any hints on how to link a pic with your name?>> What I usually do is, open the pic in my browser--online, not the local copy--and copy its URL to the URL text box in the submit form.

**NEW EP SPOILERS**

<<Fox continued on her way, occasionally encountering several more fallen Unseelie as she turned into the hallway that lead to the nursery>> So Unseelie leave corpses? Hm, I kinda thought they exploded or evaporated. :/ Oh well, since I'm doing an alternate universe...Hm, kewl bit with Coldstone's repairs. Made me think of Reboot for some reason. Ok...what's with Alex and that fuzzy...? Hm, so Coldstone and Coldfire are probably going to die. I wonder, then, who'll handle Coldsteel...What the...How in the world did Alex do that?! For that matter...Titania made Coldstone and Coldfire organic again? Cool. Looks like I needn't have worried about Coldsteel, thanks to a bit of Titania ex machina. <g> Hm, so Othello and Desdemona are officially their names now. Kewl.

Blue Caeru> <<I didn't expect Titainia to be _that_ powerful though, being able to "rebuild" bodies like that. I guess the Weird Sisters did something somewhat like that when they cast that spell on Demona and Macbeth (youth and immortality), but I don't know... can anybody think of other examples?>> Hm...Titania's spell struck me pretty much as the magical equivalent of cloning. I think the only reason they didn't clone new bodies for the Cold Duo was because they didn't have anyone to do the the soul transfer, unless of course the organic matter's stone condition interfered with the sampling.

**END SPOILERS**

Shogun Raptor> <<The trek-less six degrees of gargoyles, ladies and germs>> Actually...Matt Frewer was on Star Trek: The Next Generation as Berlinghoff Rasmussen. It was only in one episode though, so I'm not sure it counts...

SJ> $<<I'm working on finishing the Oz Rp now....that is, unless the others want it to go longer, in which case I'd follow their wishes. Argent, Wilek, any suggestions?>> Um...not really, no...<<COMING UP NEXT--WILEK DOES HIS BELMONT IMPRESSION>> O_o Can't wait for that one. :)$ <<Jar Jar Binks may get his own animated tv show.>> <ahem> BY THE DRAGON, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not only is the galaxy's most irritating Gungan unworthy of his own show, but Star Wars just isn't suited to episodic television! Each movie or book or whatever should be an epic, and a part of a greater epic, and that just can't be done in television! (With the possible exception of Babylon 5...)

Vinnie: The Movie> Eh...only if he died horribly at the end.

A Juhl> Welcome to our little nest of insanity. <g> And the Darkest Hour part 1 is at http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/garg/season2/darkesthour1.html; part 2 should be http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/garg/season2/darkesthour2.html.

Maurice LaMarche! Go!
Maurice LaMarche was on Pinky And the Brain as the Brain. Mark Hamill made a guest appearance in PATB once or twice (I am not making this up; check with IMDB), and was in the last two Star Wars movies with Frank Oz, who was in Muppet Treasure Island with Tim Curry, who of course plays Dr. Sevarius on Gargs.

**RESUME RP!**

[A few minutes later...Djedi: "Avatar, this is the Dagger. Are you seeing what I'm seeing?" Djedi sends the station his sensor readings, which show a single unmarked shuttlecraft heading toward the Avatar's fleet. Rho: "That doesn't look good. Find out who they are and what they want. If you don't like what you hear, blow them out of the sky." Djedi: "Right. This is the Ice Dagger to unidentified shuttlecraft. State your name and purpose." WF3: "You know my name and purpose, scum! Don't tell me you don't remember watching that vomitous halfbreed kill my brother!" Djedi: "Who..." Toliana: "Djedi, I think that's that clone gargoyle your friend briefed us about." WF3: "Of course I am, simpleton. Now watch as I reduce your little friends to ash!" The shuttle angles toward the Onslaught. Djedi: "I don't think so!" The Ice Dagger fires a concussion missile at the shuttle, which hits its port ion engine. WF3 leaps out just as the shuttle explodes. Djedi: "Avatar? We got the shuttle, but the pilot bailed out. He's one of those clones, and apparently he and the one that one of our allies just killed were pretty close. He was trying to take out the Onslaught." Rho: "Leave him. No matter how well armed he is, one gargoyle is no match for that thing, from what I've heard." Djedi: "Should we shoot him anyhow?" Rho: "Maybe we should take him pris--" The Administrator interrupts, in a voice like poison over ice: "Leave him for *us*. I have wanted a gargoyle for the longest time..."]

**END RP!**
Wilek Nereus
Monday, June 7, 1999 01:32:41 AM
IP: tnt-1-66-56k.portsmouth.zoomnet.net

A Juhl check you e-mail for a forward with the URL.

Starsinger
Theresa - [Starsinger@Webtv.net]
Monday, June 7, 1999 01:13:35 AM
IP: proxy-333.public.rwc.webtv.net

The Gathering: Uh, any news on where it'll be held in 2000?

Shogun Raptor> *applauds* My, my, it really was Trek-less! And hey, you weren't the only one connecting "Uncle Owen" to Aunt Beru on some bizarre level. *g*

Beth Maza and Coyote: I think I read somewhere in the CR that they were developing a relationship similar to the one that Coyote and Beth's grandmother had shared. Could someone elaborate on that, please? I haven't seen every single episode of "Gargoyles" when it was on TV, though I wish I had. I've never even seen the much-lauded "Future Tense."

*****MAJOR SPOILERS FROM "AFTERMATH PART I"*****

Cool, this is a character-oriented episode, which is a nice break from all the action we've been seeing lately. I really thought Coldstone and Coldfire were going to die, so I was pleasantly surprised when they were still alive at the end of the episode AND in true gargoyle form. (Great illustration!) Anyway, I really felt sad when they were dying and Lexington was trying to help make them comfortable - very emotional, kinda like George Harrison's redemption/death from "The Darkest Hour Part 2." (BTW, nice to have Liz mentioned again, hope we see her again very soon to develop Lex some more). I didn't expect Titainia to be _that_ powerful though, being able to "rebuild" bodies like that. I guess the Weird Sisters did something somewhat like that when they cast that spell on Demona and Macbeth (youth and immortality), but I don't know... can anybody think of other examples?

Some of the theories concerning Puck/Owen from last week's CR seem to be correct, judging from Alex's behavior, although I don't have any ideas about how Puck/Owen will be "officially" brought back. I suppose we'll find out next week... then again, I said that back when "The Darkest Hour Part I" was released. *sigh* Hmm, I wonder if Puck/Owen helped Alex summon Titainia? That was definitely unexpected, as the Seelie Queen herself noted.

I wasn't really sure if Elisa would reveal early on that it was Demona who had saved her life. I guess I thought she would spend some time thinking about why Demona did it and re-evaluate her relationship to her first. Well, Elisa seems much more accepting of Demona now, but Goliath still appears to be stubborn and too wary (once again, freaking out over Elisa in this ep, though I admit I don't know how else he'd react to her being in danger *g*). Wonder how the rest of the clan will react - grudgingly accept Demona, or remain wary and distant?

Demona herself still seems confused. Why was she crying when Angela found her? Maybe I missed something; I'll go read the ep again.

BTW, nice touch/detail, having Brooklyn and Sata sort of speak up about something they know from their Timedancing (that Elisa will be all right).

It was good to see some conflict in the Matt/Sara relationship. If it had just been a "confession-of-love-and-everything's-just-great-now" sort of thing starting from "The Darkest Hour Part I", it wouldn't have been as interesting. Early in this ep I was dumbfounded and my mouth dropped open as I thought, "A love triangle?! What the heck is going on?!" Fortunately, that was remedied. *grins sheepishly* Anyhow, I liked the stream-of-thought monologues for Sara. Anxious, yet funny: "I sort of like him, he sort of likes me, and we were going to die... that's it..." Well, something like that. :-P Oh, and in that one scene where Matt is described as "tongue-tied," I instantly thought of The Cat in "Red Dwarf" singing the song "Tongue-Tied" from his dream. (I have it stored in my comp... Heheh, that show is so funny. :-)

I guess in Part 2 we'll find out how the other clans and characters around the world are faring.

*****END SPOILERS FROM "AFTERMATH PART I" AND POST*****
Blue Caeru
Monday, June 7, 1999 01:03:15 AM
IP: spider-th081.proxy.aol.com

Definatley tryin' too hard. Said Shatner was in an episode of TNG... Eeesh...
Robby
Monday, June 7, 1999 12:42:44 AM
IP: spider-te071.proxy.aol.com

BARBARA FELDON- GO!
Barbara Feldon was in an episode of Man From Uncle. Man from Uncle had an episode with Will Shatner. Shatner was in an episode of Star Trek:TNG with Leonard Nimoy. Nimoy was in an episode of Next Generation with Brent Spiner. Brent Spiner of course played Puck, but also, had a cat named Spot on TNG. And while Spot was a cat, there was also a cat in gargoyles!

Hmm, meybe I'm trying too hard...
Robby
Monday, June 7, 1999 12:35:50 AM
IP: spider-te071.proxy.aol.com

For you wrestling fans...

HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN....GO!!
Hollywood Hulk Hogan was in "Assault on Devil's Island" (tv movie) with Carl Weathers. Carl Weathers was in "Action Jackson" with Craig T. Nelson. Craig T. Nelson was in "Coach" with Bill Fagerbakke!!

Or how about "Stone Cold" Steve Austin?
STEVE AUSTIN...GO!!! Steve Austin has appeared on "Nash Bridges" with Don Johnson, who played Lt. Falcon in "G.I.Joe the Movie" alongside the late great Ed Gilbert (Eddie was General Hawk).

And just for kicks.....
VANILLA ICE...GO!!! Vanilla Ice was in "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: the Secret of the Ooze" with David Warner, aka the Archmage.
Anonymous
Monday, June 7, 1999 12:25:42 AM
IP: 207-172-52-25.s25.tnt1.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

Im veery sad, I can't find the gargoyles story the Darkest hour paert two An I so wanted to read it. I can't in good faith skip to aftermath One with out reading the other. Does some one know where it is located.
thanks
A Juhl - [Juhl@hotmail.com]
sc, ca, us
Monday, June 7, 1999 12:09:48 AM
IP: spider-wc071.proxy.aol.com

DANG IT!!!

Forgot to add this little bit of Rp to the last post....um, have to say something so this isn't all RP thought....uh....

Well, Star Wars was number one again....and I'm really looking forward to seeing Austin Powers this upcoming Friday. Anyone hear that Dr. Evil commercial/song they're playing? ROTFLMAO!

BTW, I just got done watching "La Femme Nikita" (the series that is) on the USA network, and I must say that Peta Wilson is a rather fetching young lass.

****OKAY, ENOUGH BABBLE, HERE'S THE REST OF THE RP****8
Suddenly, Scarecrow snapped his fingers. "That's it! I know how we can beat Eisner!"
"How?" the others ask in anticipation.
"The Dorothy!" Scarecrow said, his sewn-on mouth strecthed in a smile. "Remember, he who holds the Dorothy rules Oz. If I can get her away from Eisner, I'll be the most powerful being in Oz again!"
"Can your power stop a master vampire of the level of Eisner?" Giles asks.
"Are you kidding? Oz is practically made of magic. Once I get the Dorothy, Eisner won't stand a chance."
"IF YOU GET HER," a voice boomed from deep within the palace. It seemed to rattle inside everyone's head at once. "COME AND GET HER IF YOU CAN, STRAW MAN," it said. And with that, the gates of the palace began to open....
****COMING UP NEXT--WILEK DOES HIS BELMONT IMPRESSION!!!!*****
Sevarius Jr.
Monday, June 7, 1999 12:03:09 AM
IP: 207-172-52-25.s25.tnt1.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

**stops fixating for a moment**

Interesting game ye have there, Shogun ... is it a private party, or can anybody play? I think I have one ...

LUCY LAWLESS ... GO!
Lucy Lawless stars in "Xena," which occasionally has appearances by Bruce Campbell, who was in "Escape from L.A." with Kurt Russell, who was in "Executive Decision" with Steven Segal, who was in "Under Siege II: Dark Territory" with Thom Adcox-Hernandez, who was Lexington in "Gargoyles."

taa daa!!

**returns to fixating**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Monday, June 7, 1999 12:00:25 AM
IP: modem41.i-is.com

Nuts, had to make two posts. Darn memory...

I won't be around for the next two days, I have a college orientation and will be away from contact. So, seey'all on Tuesday evening. :)
JEB
Monday, June 7, 1999 12:00:14 AM
IP: 98a7956d.ipt.aol.com

Darn! **holds fingers an inch apart** I missed top 10 by that much... Oh well, I'm off to read the new episode.
Zath
Sunday, June 6, 1999 11:58:40 PM
IP: ns14-06.viptx.net

*Zings in*

Zipping in to make a shameless plug... my site has been updated! Go, look, admire, jeer, comment, whatever. :)

*Kapwings out*
JEB - [JEB215@aol.com]
Sunday, June 6, 1999 11:57:06 PM
IP: 98a7956d.ipt.aol.com

*****RP HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!!!****
The heroes all stand ready before the gates to the Emerald Palace, the throneroom of the Kindred Eisner. Each is a bit nervous, despite their bravery--they know that this is a serious situation. Possibly two of their friends could be trapped inside, and Eisner may prove even too powerful for their combined strength....
"It's go time," SJ says with a determined look on his face. "We hit him hard and fast, but we have to find out where my dad is. He's the only one who knows!"
"I fear that it may be impossible to defeat Eisner," Lion said, shaking his head sorrowfully, his mane of hair moving from side to side. "I was the mightiest of Oz's warriors, but even I could not stop him. He enslaved me to his will, and if he does not destroy you--which he very well may--he will enslave you as well." Lion's remarks spread a sense of dread through the heroes. Their difficult task now seemed even more impossible.
"You're NOT helping!" Kari hissed at the leonine warrior. She grabbed her spear tighter and looked menacingly at SJ. "You know, I blame YOU for this."
"ME?"
"Yes you! Fighting killer flying apes, a giant robot, vampires! And for what? To rescue a father who only cares about mutating all of humanity! I swear, if you weren't so cute, I'd--" she abruptly ceased talking, realizing she had spoken too much already.
SJ looked hurt. "Well, if I had known you felt this way....Wait, did you just say I was cute?"
****PAUSE RP FOR NOW!!!*****

Doug: No problem about the RP. It wasn't really a broken thread; I just got involved in this Oz bit, plus things went a little haywire when the server went down, plus the fact that everyone was doing their own thing and therefore not ready to be involved in what could be the total assimilation of the Earth....I had planned to get back onto it once everyone else wanted to. You just saved me the trouble! :)
I'm working on finishing the Oz Rp now....that is, unless the others want it to go longer, in which case I'd follow their wishes. Argent, Wilek, any suggestions?

Robby: Lots of good shows, non-sci fi/toon-wise have left this season. Cupid and Brimstone were gone by midseason. Homicide: Life on the Streets was arguably the best crime show on TV, and it's ended (at least, however, after a long, 7 year lifespan). Silk Stalkings, which I'm sure no one else here was a fan of (okay, I know it's just a T & A show on the USA network, but damn it, it had Chris Potter as the lead, and I've been a fan of his since his days voicing Gambit in the X-Men cartoon). As you said, BeastWars has ended. Now, so has DS9. To those who were still fans, Millennium (with the aforementioned Lance Henriksen) is no more. And the latest casualty: apperently, Crow: Stairway to Heaven--even though it was renewed for a second season. Some folks here may have not been a fan of the Crow show, but I've always been a Crow fan, and I thought the series grew quite nicely over the course of season.
As can be expected, next season will be loaded with new shows.....and most of them will suck; which is why they'll last forever. The one's that are actually intelligent and downright good entertainment (I have to use the Cupid analogy) will be gone after a handful of weeks. Hollywood is like the poisonous snake that in it's ignorance doesn't realize it's bitten it's own tail.

ENTERTAINMENT NEWS!!!!
1. For those who are big Sean Connery fans, the rumors that he will be playing the wizard Gandalf in the upcoming "Lord of the Rings" trilogy won't stop coming. The latest rumor is that Peter Jackson, the director/writer for LOTR, has bought Connery a house in New Zealand, where the trilogy will be filmed over the course of the next few months....

2. As for the other bit....let me preface this:
TO BE HONEST, YES, AFTER HEARING THIS, I DO THINK THE WORLD MAY BE ENDING. Also,
YES, IF THIS IS TRUE, LUCAS IS A TOTAL SELL-OUT. And,
I'M SURE THAT SOMEPLACE, SOMEWHERE, jACKAl IS SMILING.
What the hell am I talking about? This piece of horrifying news: Jar Jar Binks may get his own animated tv show.
If this isn't a drop of piss on all the talented folks who have labored tirelessly to bring respect to the animation profession, I don't know what is....

David G: Make Vinnie: The Movie happen! Seriously! I can see it being this great, big epic! Action! Romance! Comedy! Drama! Explosions! Maybe a little hanky panky! And most of all, every one's favorite loveable oddball, the world's greatest Travolta clone, VINNIE!!!! Anyone brave enough to actually write the screenplay should be declared a saint!

Glimmer: Thanks for the booklist!
Sevaruis Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Sunday, June 6, 1999 11:55:43 PM
IP: 207-172-52-25.s25.tnt1.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

Blast..wrong pic, ah what the smeg
OJ SIMPSON...GO!
OJ was in the naked Gun with Leslie Neilsen who was in Dracula: dead and loving it with Mel Brooks who was in Spaceballs with Michael Winslow who was in Police Academy 3 with Bobcat Goldthwait who was in Hercules with Matt Frewer who did the voice of Jackal *bows* The trek-less six degrees of gargoyles, ladies and germs!
Shogun raptor
Sunday, June 6, 1999 11:33:52 PM
IP: mia1-wc2.atlas.digex.net

Just finished reading "aftermath" quite the tale, that one, I'd put spoilers but I hate to be the one to give stuff away so all I'm gonna say is that Alexander's referring to our favorite dead majordomo as "Uncle Owen" had me waiting for some kind of line about Aunt Beru, speaking of odd connections, I have recently discovered I have the mutant power to connect virtually any celebrity to gargoyles by way of the "six degrees of kevin bacon method"
Observe
TREY PARKER AND MATT STONE...GO!
parker and Stone were in Baseketball with Robert Stack who was in Transformers the movie with Frank Welker who did Bronx, and if that was wierd, just wait until I post the OJ Simpson one
Shogun raptor
Sunday, June 6, 1999 11:31:09 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

AAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
I'm Back! I'll be back later later to tell you all about the worst vacation of my life...but there's two weeks of comments and three eps to read! I'll catch up...:)
SOROW
Sunday, June 6, 1999 11:03:54 PM
IP: usr11-dialup236.mix1.irving.cw.net

**stops fixating for a moment**

Top ten.

**fixates once more**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:59:54 PM
IP: modem41.i-is.com

TOP TEN!!

Real post in a moment...
Sevaruis Jr.
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:55:59 PM
IP: 207-172-52-25.s25.tnt1.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com

Lucky 7! :-)
Blue Caeru
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:50:20 PM
IP: spider-th052.proxy.aol.com

Sixth?

Gyre> Elisa doesn't even need to know that Titania ever refused to heal her to have a grudge against fay. She already knows that her race and the gargoyle race essentially fought Oberon's war for him and got precious little thanks for it...and it was the human and gargoyle races that suffered all the losses due to the war. That alone would be enough to make her doubt whether she should ever give her aid to a fey again. Garlon MAY be able to make use of this, though I wonder at what his ultimate plans are now. He might aspire more towards taking over the mortal world behind the scenes (controlling it sort of like the Illuminati do) rather than risk Oberon's wrath by trying to invade Avalon. Garlon might actually prefer living in the mortal world to living on Avalon. He has more opportunity to make use of his expertise as a sneak and more potential for gaining power. He probably knows all about Maddox Industries and Madoc's financial resources. The only way I see him being a threat to Titania is by being a threat to Alex. And I can't see Elisa or the gargoyles refusing to help Alex. But I can see Elisa at some time having an argument with Beth about fey. Beth and Coyote seem to be developing a relation similar to the one Coyote had with Beth's grandmother. Elisa may not approve.

New Topic:
I spent about 3 hours scanning through Ask Greg for info on things like damage during stone sleep and healing ability. I found a few questions about that as well as some which relate to other topics that have been discussed in here recently. I've copy/pasted some excerpts below. If this is illegal for some reason (copywright?) just tell me and I won't do it again. The rest of this post is lifted from Ask Greg.

Q: If a gargoyle is chipped or slightly damaged in stone form, what happens when they wake up? Do chips tranlate to scars, or just disappear? What if someone vandalizes a stone gargoyle, such as chiseling off just their hand?

Greg: I guess a lot would depend on how much time was left before sunset. Slight damage would have time to heal. Gross damage might have time to seal up at least, but I wouldn't count on a gargoyle surviving major trauma.
(GDW / 7-14-98)

Q: If Gargoyles heal when they turn to stone, how did Hudson get that scar and discoloration in his eye?

Greg: The magic that caused it didn't heal in one night, thus it scarred and blinded him permanently.
(GDW / 7-22-98)

Q: In "The Green," if Jackal had succeeded in carving Goliath's face into a likeness of his own as Goliath slept (like he planned to do) what would have happened to Goliath when he woke up?

Greg: Death.
(GDW / 3-24-98)

Q: Can Gargoyles get sick (i.e. colds, the flu, etc.)?

Greg: I suppose, but they heal fast, so they don't stay sick very long.

Q: Could Demona ever get sick, or does the immortality spell make her immune system invincible?

Greg: She could definitely get sick. But the condition wouldn't be fatal. Of course, Gargoyles have a fairly substantial immune system of their own. Most sicknesses don't last past sunrise. A lot of the fun of Demona's present condition (a gargoyle with TWO magical spells that have a physical effect on her) is that these are all unanswered questions UNTIL we do the story that demonstrates the answer. Even Demona doesn't know for sure how her body will react.

Q: Since a gargoyle turns to stone if touched by sunlight why dont they stone up if you shine a bright light on them? Also on a related topic if a gargoyle avoids sun wont they stay awake for a while?

Greg: Gargoyles have internal biological clocks. Sunlight acts as a psychological trigger, but it's really the internal clock that makes the change. A bright light doesn't affect the clock, nor does it act as a trigger. Avoiding the sun, for example by being indoors at sunrise, might have a slight delaying effect but not more than a few minutes, because the clock triggers the change, not the sun. The clock is simply "set" by the sun.

Q: How long do the New Olympians generally live for, naturally?

Greg: They're all pretty different, but I'd guess it ranges from between 13 and 250 years.
(GDW/12-15-97)

Q: My question is this, by the time "Bad Guys" rolls around, Yama is a member of this covert team. What is his "status"? Does the mysterious group behind this Dirty Dozen-esque team grant him any legal rights or acceptance, or is he considered along the lines of a trained animal, more like Hunter's property than a sentient beast?

Greg: The Director and the Hunter both know that Yama is fully sentient. That doesn't mean that they choose to recognize that he has any rights. As with Dingo and Fang, they basically blackmail Yama into joining the team or else. The Squad's operations are, at least in theory, covert, so there wasn't any need for a public stance on this point. Good question though. (GDW/12-15-97)

Q: What is BAD GUYS?

Greg: BAD GUYS was a spin-off series which I developed at Disney. It would have been set in the same "universe" and featured characters already introduced in the GARGOYLES series, specifically Robyn "The Hunter" Canmore, Dingo, Matrix, Fang and Yama. These five would have formed a team of expendable "bad guys" who were given a choice between prison and working on the dirty missions no one else could handle.

Q: Oberon's children are not to interfere with the live's of humans right. So how can the Weird Sisiters give immortality to Demona and MacBeth without violating this law? How is this "bending the law without breaking it?"

Greg: The short answer is that Macbeth & Demona asked for it. The Sisters weren't enforcing their will on the mortals, (well, they were, but Mac & D didn't know it), they were simply granting a request.
Actually, they were aiding Demona & Mac's desire to trade youth for power. They then slipped the link in by using a specific magic spell for the youth transfer that included the immortality link. Sneaky, huh?

What you need to understand is that Oberon isn't constantly watching. His magical dictate hangs in the air around them. If they can create a justification in their own minds, no matter how superficial, they can magically get away with a hell of a lot. There's a risk involved. What if Oberon found out later? Would he care or regard it as insignificant? Would he buy their justification? Depends on his mood, probably. He's not exactly Mr. Consistent-Letter-Of-My-Law. As it is, I don't think he has found out, at least not so far.

(By the way, the reason that Demona is perpetually 35 years old is because Macbeth was 35 when they made that trade. He couldn't give her youth that he himself no longer possessed.)

Jenniren
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:44:59 PM
IP: user-2ivf09s.dialup.mindspring.com

Fifth. Woohooo!!!
Reverend Attila
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:43:33 PM
IP: abd5d98a.ipt.aol.com

Fourth!!!
Green Baron
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:42:52 PM
IP: abd5d98a.ipt.aol.com

Second! :)

Hope everyone enjoys the story!
Stephen "Coldstone" Sobotka, Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:38:08 PM
IP: m171.ieway.com

firt or secound

Going to read the episode now
Lawrence Stone - [Craft_Celtic@yahoo.com]
Chillicothe, Ohio, U.S.A.
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:36:55 PM
IP: chil-ras5-2-cs-21.dial.bright.net

-Gargoyles/Pendragon-

The battle is over... now the healing begins.

Aftermath, part 1

Written by: Kathy Pogge and Stephen R. Sobotka, Jr.

Illustrations by: Noel Leas
Robby
Sunday, June 6, 1999 10:31:02 PM
IP: spider-th064.proxy.aol.com