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Good evening everyone, okay I thought I'd give you a break for the play on words jokes.

Here are some Politically Correct Ways to Say
Someone is Stupid:
>A few clowns short of a circus.
>
>A few fries short of a happy meal.
>
>the wheel's spinning, but the hamster's dead.
>
>All foam, no beer.
>
>The butter has slipped off his pancake.
>
>The cheese slid off her cracker.
catch ya'll tommorrow
delphi - [cmiller@magiclink.com]
Twin Falls, Idaho
Sunday, November 14, 1999 10:44:10 PM
IP: twin58bb.magiclink.com

:) :) :) Thanks for the Bday wishes and cake everyone!!! :)\

Atilla (blushes) hehehe!
jenna
Sunday, November 14, 1999 10:43:17 PM
IP: ppp-207-193-227-172.hstntx.swbell.net

I HAVEN'T BEEN IN HERE IN FIVE DAYS!!!!! What was I thinking?! I promise it'll never happen again! It must have been work, and school, and all that other crap. But.... what the hell has been going on in here?! I'm glad I avoided it.

JackaL> YOU'RE BACK!!!!! I wished you back into this room, ya know. Where have you been? I thought you'd been eaten and chopped up into little tiny pieces! *HUGZ* We all missed you sooooo much! Don't ever scare us like that again!

Jenna> HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU! I made a special point to post today cause it was your hatching day! May all your wishes come true and stay with us forever!

Welcome to all newbies! May this come to be your second home!

Green Baron> Actually, Carrollton is a very popular name for small towns. I think there's at least one in every state. Go fig.

Joe> *wink* Since I'm off on Thursday... I guess we'll just have to entertain ourselves ;)

Still gotta see Dogma, House on Haunted Hill, Princess Mononoke, Pokemon, and who knows what else! Sorry it's been so long... I missed you all! New ep! New ep!
SOROW
Sunday, November 14, 1999 09:59:43 PM
IP: dll2a020-0579.splitrock.net

Heh, I've been grading papers on the current event lesson on Friday (4th grade & resource class). I'm used to phonetic spelling and can usually decipher it. However, I may need some help with this one! The question is:
Martin Luther King was leader in the ______ rights movement in the 1960's. The boy wrote: penus O.O Now, some of the kids wrote siblizashun = civilization or sibil, sivle = civil (correct answer, of course) but for the love of pete, I can't figure out this one! I know what it is sounded out, but surely he didn't mean *that* ! *LOL* at least I HOPE he didn't mean that! *blinks* Any suggestions as to what it could be that would apply to the question? He needs a good grade on this, so I'm willing to accept anything even close to the right answer! ;)

I saw something today that was really disturbing. A homeless man walking across an intersection at an underpass. I've seen homeless people before, but this one touched my heart even more than usual. I don't know what it was about him... maybe it was that he crossed in front of 2 lanes of traffic without flinching or hesitating, or that he had several layers of tattered and soiled clothing on, or even that his shoes were obviously several sizes too large and flopped as he walked. He pointed and spoke to a pile of dirt and as he passed my vehicle, I caught the scent of filth and urine. It broke my heart and I immediately began counting my blessings. I was once again reminded that no matter how many problems I might have IRL or how disappointed I am when I can't afford to buy that extra outfit to squeeze into my over crowded closet, I am truly blessed - I have a roof over my head, food on the table, and I don't have to wear my entire wardrobe wherever I go. One man brought humility back into my life. Very appropriate timing for the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday.

Pistoff> touche' you are THE man! ;D

Jenna> happy birthday!! I hope you see this before the clock strikes midnight! *L*
Jannie
Sunday, November 14, 1999 09:06:05 PM
IP: 168-171-197-146.academicplanet.com

Dang, the post went through just as mine did ...

**tackles and hugs Fleur** Welcome back!! Stick around a little longer this time ... nice to have your smiling face amongst us. :)
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Sunday, November 14, 1999 08:08:07 PM
IP: zzz-209252248074.splitrock.net

And now it's time for that new indie flick, "My Dinner with Fire Storm and Lady Mystic!" ;)
Well, they came over to my house at about 2 yesterday afternoon ... of course, my not knowing what FS's car looks like, I was totally bewildered until they pulled up asking where to park. After spending some time checking out the car and taking some pics (if you could, FS, could ye e-mail me the pics ya took yesterday?), we took a trip over to Harsen's Island, got thoroughly lost, baja'd in a Tempo (big fun! ;), and came back across the channel after a half hour of reminiscing. After which we enjoyed a peaceful dinner at Bill's, and a nice drive to the theater (a little over an hour from the opposite side of Algonac) to see "Mononoke."

**WARNING! SPOILERS AHEAD FOR "PRINCESS MONONOKE!!" AVERT YER EYES IF YOU'VE STILL GOT A CHANCE OF GOING TO SEE IT!!**

We got in the theater just as it was starting, just as Keith David's *MAGNIFICENT* voice, in Goliath mode, was relating the backstory. This movie was well worth the money FS paid (hey, I paid for dinner!) ... great vocal work, stunning visuals (I never knew an arrow could cut off a man's head so *cleanly!*), and maddeningly recognizable voices, besides that of Keith David (took me, FS and LM until the closing credits to figure out the wolf spirit's voice was being done by Gillian Anderson ...). Besides that, you gotta love a movie that nearly starts with Billy Bob Thornton's character telling a chef "this soup tastes like donkey piss." This was an amazing film ... a definite keeper. I claim dibs on first in line at Media Play when it goes on sale on video!!!

**END SPOILERS FOR "PRINCESS MONONOKE!!" YOU CAN LOOK NOW!**

Ahh, yes, it was a magnificent time. We looked at my pictures from Dallas, talked up various fanfics and CR happenings, even wound up in a Batman Beyond discussion on the way back from the theater ... all in all a rewarding experience, and one I am very much looking forward to repeating, *hopefully* before Orlando. :)

Pissy, re: self-gratifying writing: If you *really, really* want to make me shudder in total embarrassment ... goad me into talking about the story serial I wrote between my senior year in high school and freshman college ... the one that tried, failed, and ultimately rose above its concept of a cross between Star Trek and the Love Boat. :P

Jessie: Well, I'm waiting for my Car-O-Scope to be processed ... I wonder if me and my DeVille are going to be compatible, eh? :)

Furby: I've heard horror stories of adult employees of my store (different branch) getting transferred and leaving behind Furbys that will, without warning, cuss a blue streak like a sailor on crack. :)

Odd little bit of dialogue that if you've got your mind in the gutter, it works weirdly ... from "The Silver Falcon," tonight's Disney Channel "Gargs" episode:

Elisa: "I know where Mace stashed your family jewels."
Dracon: "Don't play with me, Maza."

**shudders at the naughty thoughts going through his brain. ;)**

Wilek: I remember MASK. You're speaking of the gullwing Camaro, right? :)

Jenna: Happy B-day, chica! WHEEL 'ER IN, BOYS!!
**a moving crew lugs in a patented Execution^TM cake. Hands Jenna the remote** Pick yer flavor. **hugs**

Pissy again: Uhmm ... I got blank attachments on your mailing, bud. I think ya'll are gonna have to send it to me again. (sorry)

Skippy: Most likely, I'll have to rent "Dogma" to see it ... the *other* Landmark theater in the Detroit area is showing that one, and it's all the way on the other side of the city from me. But I do think it's on my "must-rent" list. :)

Warpmind: Sounds like a neat idea. You certainly have my permission ... hell, Mara's proven, *it can be done!*

Oh, Mara ... almost forgot ... next time I update my site, I have the HTML conversion of Joel and the 'bots MSTing "Sleepover" on my hard drive, I just have to upload it ...
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Sunday, November 14, 1999 08:02:08 PM
IP: zzz-209252248074.splitrock.net

*A strange, yet familiar figure enters the CR, and starts walking around, finally settling down with a happy sigh of 'It's so good to be back'.*

Yes, it's me, Fleur! *screaming, dwellers bolt for the door* Come back! I know, I know, I haven't been around for a while, but you didn't _honestly_ think it meant I had abandoned you? I'd never do that. *more screaming*

WHY I HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND.(AKA Boring stuff from Fleur's life)
Five exams (each worth between 40 and 60 percent of my final grade for this semester), and there were..
Four in one week. (Yes, four. My brain melted.) And I had..
Three job interviews. (Please employ me. I'm kind to animals and I have a sunny disposition. (cyber cookie if you can guess where I got that quote from!) which lead..
To a job!! (yea! I'm going to be a check-out chick! This goes to show how much I need the money if I think that's a good thing. :) ) and, of course, what would my life be without..
One car accident. (Yes, another one. *pout* Not my fault the driver behind me forgot that we use the BRAKE to stop. *eternal optimist rears its annoyingly cheerful head* But at least the driver didn't _mean_ to hit you, and he was insured. *eternal cynic headbutts the optimist and adds* And he didn't back up and hit you again!)

So now that I've bored you all with my life, I'm going to go read all the stuff I've missed about everybody else's life, and come back later with a post of Traveller-esqe proportions. :)

TTFN!
Fleur - [newgoyle@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 14, 1999 07:47:32 PM
IP: pig.cc.monash.edu.au

RP WARNING!!!!
**Joyride
Reverend Attila is siytting back in Cthuhullu when he looks at his credit card bill. "meoooooooowwww!!"

In the process he wakes up Wilek.
"What happened? Attila?"
"I just got my American Express card. Someone charged three million dollars with it last month. There goes a week's worth of profit form illegal activities. It's time to cancel this baby and find out who stole my card."
"Maybe the others can help."
"I'm afraid not. I've always gotten a request from Margarert Thatcher to release General Pinochet from his prison in London and return him to his mansion in Santiago. This is more a job for the Catholic school girl scouts and their little cat, too. Besides, I have an idea of who ripped me off and the joyride would get killed in the process. Besides, I have other enemies and I don't want you getting hurt by them. So far now, I must be off.

Attila lights a match near hsi rear, causing another explosion propelling the Reverend Attila to the nearest airport.**
END RP for NOW!!

Fire Strom><< "I love my country but fear my government." (BTW... who said that?)>>
I'd like to say Thomas Jefferson or Adam Smith. I agree with it wholeheartedly.

Jenna> Happy Birthday. That reminds me.
::Large cake is pulled in by the Catholic schoolgirl scouts, and Attila jumps out of the cake, naked::

You might want to get the furs out :)

Jericho> Yeah! He's a creep, but he's a fun creep to read.

Gunjack> Mera sounds like she has a taste for violence. They're the best type of women around :)

I find trouble with peopel who find Lord of the Rings Satanic. Most of thos etypes are the same crack monkeys who think Pope John Paul II is the anti-Christ.

Skippy> Dogma doesn't strike me as something to be taken too seriously. As for TBN stuff, you must admit Benny Hinn is quite an entertaining dog and pony show :) If you want to give money to some religious charlatan, you might as well give it to me :)

Mara> New fics. I'll have GB read them to me as soon as he returns home :)

Stormy> From my discussions with Green Baron, medals are not used as charms since they only act toi nspire confidence, calm, and inspiration. If a medal of St. Christopher makes you feel better about traveling, more power to you. If it were used for good luck, then it would be a charm, and that's a big no no.

rosary magick> It sounds like the scouts powers to me :)

Jessie feff> Furbies. I have ways of tormenting them.

ED> I think the main reason that Jews are mentioned whne they talk about Holocauts victims is because half of those killed were Jewish. In addition, the Jewish people have been persecuted ever since they've existed. The Holocaust has hopefully taight most of us just how evil and inexcusable anti-semitism is, as well as andy form of bigotry. Sadly, we have yet to learn that rule.

Besides, I really woudln't compare the IRA to the Nazi Party. The Orange Order seems much more similar to the Nazi party, anyway.

Doug> That was a definite typo. You know that :) BTW, General Rommel was not a Nazi. In fact, only 20% of Germans actually belonged to the Nazi party.

Anne> What's going on with your bestfriend is awful ::kitty hugs::

As for your cousin, hopefully that's just a phase.

Pistoff and Crzy> If Jericho issue causes trouble, I can offer marriage counseling services for only $50.00 an hour :)

Christine> Well, GB's RPs have had some semi-sexual situations. You can use teh scouts in a fic if you want, though they don't go all the way :)

Now, I'm off. Meow!!


Reverend Attila - [RevAttila@catsrule.garfield.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Sunday, November 14, 1999 03:27:12 PM
IP: 141.164.133.103

Joyriding Jericho > no. Nor any other of my characters. Until and unless I can play _my_ sort of games with other peoples' toys here in this room. As long as RP violence is cool and RP sex is a no-no, I'm going to take the moral low road and be a b***h about it. Leave me and mine out of it, please.

Beautiful people > ah, well, pretty women have been getting away with anything for thousands of years. All I can say is it's about time that the shoe's on the other foot. Boys are having body image issues based on muscular action figures, girls can never have Barbie bodies, we're approaching equilibrium. Huzzah!

Incest > read in the paper yesterday about a woman who is having an affair with her own son, had a child by him, and is trying to get her _other_ kids from another marriage to call their half-brother "daddy." Now, see, I find that even grosser and more disturbing than that Le Tourneau woman (Joyride _them_, howabouts?).

V.C. Andrews > as a matter of fact, I do have a shelf-ful, but quit recently when they went into the dinky mini-book almost-a-serial-novel thing. Huge waste of money. And by now they're really all the same. Even moreso than John Saul's early stuff. Way predictable. Yet weirdly compelling. Maybe it's similar to why people watch soaps.

Book stuff > okay, I am off to the Book Fest! Went to the author's reception last night but it was a dud; I didn't know anyone even by reputation, nobody knew me, and it was just a bunch of strangers milling about noshing and drinking. But today's my panel, and signings before and after. Wish me luck! ; )

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Sunday, November 14, 1999 01:58:12 PM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net

Well it's the 14th- and I was born on this night at 11:35--:P born at night- maybe I am a gargie!

Well, more later..
jenna
Sunday, November 14, 1999 01:56:18 PM
IP: ppp-216-62-143-13.dialup.hstntx.swbell.net

Just a quickie before going to work--

Warp: Don't blame that one on me. *g* Delphi sent it to me last night, and I just forwarded it. But hey, when ya see a picture like that, what else could it make you think of except "redneck hot date"? *maniacal laughter*

Real post later, this evening if possible... :)
Pissy
Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:40:25 AM
IP: wire-24.koalas.com

*Sleepily get out of bed. Trips over scattered toys. Gets up. Falls down again. Gets up. Nearly loses balance again. Takes a step--**BOOM***

I'm awake I'm awake I'm awake! Oh. Good morning everybody!

I spent most of last night typing up story lines for Gargoyles fanfic. Many of them will be used in my fanfic (how things led up to a world similar to what we saw on "Future Tense").

Wilek> Good news: yep, Brooklyn and Demona are gonna lock lips (and stay that way). Bad news: it's gonna be at the end of the fanfic's finales. Lex is dragged through one end of hell and out the other by Demona's aunt. Xanatos gets...HEY! Sorry, still trying to wake up. Can't let out too many secrets, now can we?:)

SJ> Hmm...now that conversation sounds more then familiar!

Warpmind> *scratches head* huh?

TGS staff> Great story!

OH yeah, I saw "Saving Private Ryan" last night *shudders* I can't believe I didn't get nightmares from that movie. It's awesome but so...so...tragic, um.... Don't wanna give any spoilers. :)

Well, anyway, gotta get going on my fanfic. Hopes everybody has a nice day! ^_^
Anne
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:35:04 AM
IP: 204-246-241-37.nas2.apv.gblx.net

Okay, just managed to check my mail...

Aaron: I'll send my form back as soon as I get access to the LAN server (Some freaky set-up here... LAN storage areas become inaccessible on weekends... internet access remains, though) but mark my words: You'll probably get it tomorrow.

Pistoff: Redneck's Hot Date? Man, you are probably sicker than most of those chicks in the Jericho Fanclub that you mock... *Shudder*

Well, that wraps it up for now. Later, folx.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:18:49 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

I went and saw Dogma yesterday evening, damn funny movie. The opening disclaimer was easily the funniest bit. I have to agree with Kevin and say that the Platypus must be God's idea of a joke.

Another thing I think is funny is that Kevin Smith with his distinctly secular bent film, did a better job of exporing issues of faith than TBN's similar attmept with the Omega Code.

But then what do you expect? TBN was relying on getting all their sheeple out to see the movie and not the general public. They were expecting the audience to be aware of all the end times nonsense the story was spouting. Omega Code was not a movie about faith, the faith of the characters had little bearing on the story. Arguably, God was railroading everyone in that story into the actions they took. The only attempt they made at questioning this was Micheal York's one comment on whether or not he was going to be damned for following God's script. The only answer (coming from Micheal Ironside's character) was to believe in the codes.

At least Dogma tried to give a better answer than that. They were actually acting of their own free will and were determing their own actions and not being manipulated in some vast drama God had arranged.

Skippy The Klingon
Sunday, November 14, 1999 10:45:33 AM
IP: uv1cisco01-35.ultravision.net

Hi, guys. I'd check in here yesterday, but I was unable because I happened to get properly introduced to this wonderful RPG called Vampire: The Masquerade... such fun. Oh, well, such trivial matters matter not now.

Stormy: Thanks for the lowdown. The whole business makes more sense now. Alas, we have nothing like that here, since Norway has not had much war on its hands this past century. Cowardly bastards in politics, I say. (Though we DID fight during WWII, when those damned Nazis attacked). *High-fives Stormy for those comments on RPG and Magic.* Too true... now, if we could only make this world's NPCs (Non-Playing Characters) realize this, this peaceful pastime might get a little more acceptance...

Aaron: Any time, bud... um, what was it I did for ya again? (Short-circuit memory.)

As for Aaron's weird Garg-Sliders idea... well, how'bout this?

Goliath, MacBeth and Puck (the last of which is bound by magical iron) are somehow trapped in an underground cell, forced by Demona to MiST fanfics by all sorts of authors. Now, as most of the not-so-good fics have, no doubt, already been MiSTed, Demona is only willing to consider the release of the three males who have caused her most agony and frustration if they make wisecracks on the well-written Gargoyles fanfics that roam this world... Christine Morgan, Christi Smith Hayden, TGS (?) and so on, and so on, and so on...

Now, what I had in mind is this: Each fanfic author (or, what the heck, any CR resident, for that matter) pick one - 1 - fanfic and begins to mist it with this background in mind. Self-instertion is a big no-no, and every episode must end with MacBeth, Goliath and Puck being freed by the others in some odd, hardly probable manner. Only to be captured again next time Demona has found a suitable fanfic... With this in mind, the cell layout does not have to be the same from episode to episode, so that leaves room for a lot of creativity from the writers... and I know it'll be fun to read, (almost) no matter what. Anybody up for the challenge?

*Throws a handful of peanuts at Delphi.* Those groaners would keep you on a VERY good foot with the Callahanians...

Mara Cordova: Yeah, I suggested a MiSTing of my own work... but which one is it? (I just wanna know for myself, but if you don't want the others to know prematurely, just drop me an e-mail, and I'll keep it under wraps.) *Gives Mara a friendly pat on the back, knowing all too well the troubles of keeping an old computer alive.* Heck, I've had to replace the hamster a few times, myself. And I killed it when I tried to overclock it, the damn predatory critter I inserted exhausted my present hamster prematurely... I'll pull a veil of ignorance over the rest...

Jessie Feff: That Car-o-Scope seems disturbing... but as I don't have a car, nor do I want piles and piles of e-mail concerning car owners, I refrained from filling out the survey. Disturbing stuff, I'd guess...

Creating Villains vs. Nice Guys: Well, I'm in the processing stages of creating one of my own... only thing is, his stage-life is marginally longer that that of our dual-lightsaber-wielding favorite Bad Guy, Darth Maul. He was first seen as an innocent bystander in "Abduction" (I think that was what I called that particular fic, maybe it was "Abducted") and is soon turning up as the local leader of the secret Crime-Syndicate Darkon, on which even the Illuminati only have small bits of information... of course, he'll die even more terribly than Darth Maul did (I plan a complete deterioration of all vital organs, better known as Massive Dim Mak). *Chuckles evilly.* Oh, well, at least Jackal and Hyena will emerge a bit more upgraded this time... but not as extenively as to the Ultra-Pack, mind you...


Pistoff: Actually, that application stuff... no joke. Sorry. But, it's the psychological makeup of Jericho that intrigues me, not his build. Actually, I find the guy slightly disturbing, not the kind of guy I'd want to meet in a dark alley at night. His sister, though... ;) Fear not, I won't let my fascination with his psychosis drive a wedge between us for the Joyride (and no Freudian interpretations of _that_ one, please) even though you find his fanclub revolting. I'm still the same, crazy-violent biochemist that you all have come to like. ;) As for your fanfic series... Otto WHAT??? For some reason, I take it he must get the "blow me" retort a lot... ;)

Gunjack Valentine: Oooh, you're an XCOM player, too? I frequently kick alien butt in the two first games, but, alas, Ahasverus will never have the capacity for the third of the series. (Not that it tempts me much, though... realtime... UgH!)

Wilek: Jar Jar Death Archive... man, those pics were made by some disturbed individuals... What the heck am I saying? Those guys got it RIGHT!!! I think Deuce missed some of my sanity during the extraction...

Christine: <<I can't use it for AvMists because of the PG rating thing.>> *Swears creatively.* Oh, well. Maybe elsewhere, then. At least I know you have them, now...

CrzyDemona: Hey! I beg to differ! I'd like to see Ricky Martin humiliated in such a situation as has been mentioned, and I sure as heck don't _despise_ Jericho... he is sick, twisted and a big-league bad guy, but those are fascinating factors to me, rather than repulsing... but as I've already stated, it's as a psychological case he intrigues me, and nothing more. See, not all of those who seek membership in the Jericho Fanclub considers him desirable. I know that if I met him, I'd be moving faster than an experienced Call of Cthulhu investigator. (Inside joke - e-mail me if you don't get it.)

Jewel: Hmmm... that sounds almost as amusing as the guy who called his dog "Sex"... I presume most of you here have encountered that story on one or more occasions...

Anne: Looking at the description of your cousin's hobbies... ugh, another of those hobby satanists. ;) To the extent that I am familiar with Satanism, I've come to believe that the REAL bigwigs are far more covert than that... and they certainly don't randomly torture animals... Heck, if you just take a look at the Bible; Lucifer, the Bearer of Light, was originally an Archangel, who fell from grace. Thus true Satanism, in fact, goes all the way back to God... *Sadistic chuckle.*

Delphi: Aaaargh, more groaners! *Calmly draws a HUGE Bastard Sword and calmly starts sharpening it.* Don't mind me, I'm just sitting here...

Sevarius Jr.: What are you saying? That Stephen King writes fiction? But... ;) Well, in my opinion, Koontz is better (a little more plausible, mayhap) but King is still... well, maybe at least a Viceroy. ;) Heck, The Shining is my all-time King Fave, (And the Kubrick movie is, subsequently, very high on my top-ten Movies list), and is one of the scariest books I have ever read... and I've read a LOT of books...

Pistoff: <<We don't _really_ think Ricky Martin does anything with sheep.>> We don't?

Sevarius Jr. Again: Writing is masturbation? Sheesh, thanks, pal. I'll never look at a keyboard in the same manner again... *Shudder.*

Well, that's just about it for now, I might check back later.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, November 14, 1999 10:41:28 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

Aggghh! I hate Assembly Language! Is there ANYONE with experience with MIPS that can help me??

*sigh* I'm okay. Really.

Jewel> I totally missed this, but a SNAKE BITE? Owww! Hope it gets better! As for the job interview - I'm sorry. I've been strung around like that trying to get a job, and it's hateful.

The Jericho Debate> Personally, I'm not a member of the Jericho fan club... I think his relationship with Demona in Christine's fics works in the respect that it serves to show just how twisted the two of them are. Pistoff, Crzy, maybe we should all just agree to disagree; this could go on for weeks.

**"NOW AND AGAIN" SPOILERS!**

Well, last week's episode was lousy - but "A Girl's Life" made up for it. I found the entire setup implausible myself. (Why the hell are they risking his life by making him jump from a plane with no chute??) However, this time around the payoff made it worth it. For a faith episode, it was very well done, and had some extremely touching moments. And Heather Matarazzo FINALLY got something to do; she did a great job in this episode, especially when Michael visited her that second time. The teen subplot wasn't too bad and fortunately not "Dawson's Creek"-ish, especially the part where Heather's boyfriend stood up for her. 8/10.

For those who haven't watched this show in a while, next week's episode looks absolutely implausible, but also absolutely hilarious. I'd advise giving it a look, just to see all the main characters finally interacting with each other in the same room. :)

**END N&A SPOILERS!**

Fanfic Progress> Thanks to Coyote's "Team Delta," my creativity demons pertaining to my fic cycle have awoken and have been driving me nuts with ideas for "Of Caffeine Withdrawal..." I've been sitting on "The Waiting Game" since I need to think about that one. I'm making myself devote time to TGS writing, but it's been difficult.

Anyway, I'd better get some work done... :)
Mandolin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 14, 1999 10:39:16 AM
IP: 144.175.18.15

Hi all!!

CrzyDemona:<<Okay, here is what I find amusing. The same people who DISPISE Jericho for his relationship to Demona, are the same people who think it is halarious to talk about Ricky Martin with sheep. ... and I thought I was the CRZY one.>>Umm I've never read christine's fic's so I'm not going to form opinions about one of her characters(nor should I)that is why I stayed out of the Jericho discussion,but the Ricky Martin-sheep joke was mine(I really hate Ricky Martin and I'll stick a boot in 'im when ever I can>:) ),so....are you insinuating that I am being hypocritical?(Note:this question is not intended to be a flame,I just wish to know I'm being paranoid friend:))

Delphi re puns:*Groan*:)

Robby re Tigger Movie:NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Goodnight all!!
Xanathar
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Sunday, November 14, 1999 05:43:17 AM
IP: 139.134.27.66

Did anyone else see an ep of Timon and Pumbaa that Disney showed this morning? For some reason, it kinda freaked me out. Here's the gist of it: It was one of those that guest-starred Simba. (T&P has no business involving Simba in its idiocies IMHO, but oh well.) The plot revolved around him being captured and forced to participate in the Roman gladiatorial games. As if that weren't odd enough, his final opponent was a lion named, if I recall correctly, Claudius. The guy looked *awfully* familiar, too...Watch the ep and you'll understand...

Oh, and I got to see unfortunately only a few minutes of Snow White: A Tale Of Terror, and *dang*, I can see why it's recieving such positive reviews. :) I'll have to find it again sometime... (From Timon & Pumbaa to A Tale Of Terror in two short paragraphs. This would cause severe whiplash among sane people. :P )

Forgot last time> Ray Bradbury> Ack! Hope he makes a full recovery. :(

Nightwalker> <<Well, the tube in our tv is going out and it take about 2 hours for the images to reach the bottom of the screen. Plus about 2 weeks ago the webtv creators offered an upgrade. I was so happy, I thought that I'd finally be able to load up the fics, everytime I try I only get about half of it and never any more. But now I can't even load up the entire CR. It's even worse now. And I found out that I'm not getting a comp. in Dec. It might be another year. This sux.>> Ack. Sorry to hear of it, friend; here's hoping that computer will come sooner than you think. :/

Good and Evil characters> One reason I usually like the villains is because they always get the coolest stuff. They have the weird magic, the insane weapons, the creepy mansions, the incredible wardrobes, you name it. I took this all into account when constructing my ficverse, so I could give the good and bad guys some equal ground in such matters. Hehe.

Robby> <<Then there's that Dreamworks move El Dorodo movie coming out, and also apparently "The Tigger Movie"?>> Tigger...movie? <snarl> It's time for these demonic little plushies to die...

Jewel> <<When I was little, my dog's name was Satan (I didn't name him!). So when I would go play with my dog, I would say I was going to go play with Satan... and when I talk about him I usualy would say, "Oh, Satan was such a sweetie! I loved Satan when I was a little kid!">> <blink> <LOL> Snake bite> ACK!!! Hope it gets better! o_o <<As for the job interview, it was a joke. The twists didn't actually have an opening--they're just trying to find IT/helpdesk people for when they *do* (she said as soon as they had an actually opening, they would call me for a second interview). It was a waste of my time, and it meant I had to drive on Ga400 in the middle of rushhour to get home.>> This is the kind of person who will be used as vozhd food when my New Order engulfs this pitiful planet.

Anne> <<But then again who wants to see Brooklyn and Demona hook up?>> I've always thought they made an intriguing couple. It'll never happen in my ficverse of course (she's destined for another and he's destined to die), but I've always liked the concept. :)

Pistoff> <<just be glad that Christine hasn't allowed us to Joyride Jericho himself...which reminds me...Christine: May we? Puhhhleeeeeeeeze? *evil grin* ;)>> <evil laughter> Oh, that would be *epic*...hehehe...

SJ> <<It ties into the whole "authors are the gods of their literary universes" deal. Writing can be masturbatory, in the sense that self-gratification is found in both. Masturbation is a physical gratification, while writing is a mental and psychological gratification, because in one's own fiction the world is exactly how YOU want it to be.>> That, friend, is why I got into fic writing. It gives the author his very own universe, to build and populate and run as he sees fit. It's quite the power trip. Muhahahaha.
Wilek Nereus
Sunday, November 14, 1999 01:29:43 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

SJ- Beast Machines has been planned out for two seasons, both seasons being full arcs, and both arcs combining to make one huge story. And supposedly the second arc brings in a few more female characters...
Robby
Sunday, November 14, 1999 01:19:00 AM
IP: spider-wc074.proxy.aol.com

Quickie before I go to bed ... I'll be brief ...

Fire Storm: Glad to see you two made it home safely. :)
And as for doing it again sometime ... damn straight!! :)

Oh yeah ... the movie kicked serious. I'll review it tomorrow when I'm more conscious. ;)
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Sunday, November 14, 1999 01:04:22 AM
IP: zzz-209252248219.splitrock.net

Well, LM and I just got back from seeing Princess Mononoke with Coyote, and we had a great time! (The movie wasn't too bad either!>
We have GOT to do it again some time!

For all of you expecting e-mails from Lady Mystic, she will get to them this week.

Pissy: < Ack! ACK!! AAAAAAAAAACK!!!! *pukes* Uh...NO.>
Hmm... ok... mental note...

Wilek: Drivers: Yes, some are that bad. We have too many here to only get hit by the good ones!

Jaden: getting hit: You are not the only one that dosn't want me to get hit!

Crzy: <Ricky Martin with sheep>
Hmm... no sir, I ain't going there.
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Sunday, November 14, 1999 12:59:43 AM
IP: 216.90.45.172

Sorry for the 2x post, but:

About the "writing is masturbation" thing--don't take it too literally. King was using it as a metaphor for self-gratification. It ties into the whole "authors are the gods of their literary universes" deal. Writing can be masturbatory, in the sense that self-gratification is found in both. Masturbation is a physical gratification, while writing is a mental and psychological gratification, because in one's own fiction the world is exactly how YOU want it to be.

As for the killer in Se7en....just watched that movie again on Fox this past Friday, and I still love it. And yeah, I'm glad the killer "won". Cause, frankly, I think that's what works best for the movie. After 2 hours of a very dark story, I couldn't exactly picture a happy ending. It wouldn't have, IMO, worked well for the plot.
And yeah, in my own sick way, I sometimes have a soft spot for the really twisted psychos. I don't sympathize for them, but I do think they can make some pretty darn interesting villains. But, except for movies like Se7en, I don't think they should win....all the time.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Sunday, November 14, 1999 12:10:09 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Wilek: <<Congratulations, Pis, you've destroyed someone's mind. ;)>> Hmm...one more down... ;) And the Jar Jar Sucks website--ROTFLMAO! Loved it! Thanks! :D

Xanathar: Heh, that's pretty much what I thought. ;)

Jenna: Um, no, I didn't get a Furby, fortunately. But if I were given one (I'd have to be given one, since I wouldn't pay so much as a penny for one), I'd probably use it for target practice. I'd go totally Hunter S. Thompson on it. Tape it to a propane tank, strap a couple of nitroglycerin charges on the sides of the tank, move back at least 100 yards and then start shooting at it. :D But I love your Furby story. "May we see Lucifer?" LMAO!! I'd love to see that. ;) And I agree with you 100 percent (still paranoid about the percent-sign thing ;) about what you said in the good vs. evil debate. I noticed the trend in here seems to be the opinion that "evil characters are more interesting, and more fun." You're right, that _is_ frightening. A character doesn't have to be evil or completely perverted and disgusting like Jericho and Demona (heh heh, just had to slip in yet another potshot, *g*). I think I managed to prove that with my "good-guy" characters. You give your good guys the proper personality quirks, make them fresh and interesting, and you'll have fun characters. Rather like the character Rutger Hauer played in "Split Second"--the movie itself was pretty much just another monster movie, but Hauer's character was just priceless--guilt-ridden, often mean-spirited, had poor impulse control, and occasionally just completely wigged out on everybody...yet he was very clearly the good guy. I've always found that type of character more interesting than any villain. I've always used villains as plot devices and obstacles for the good guys--basically, the villains in my stories are there to spur the heroes into action, to put them into extraordinary situations that will make them change and grow. The bad guys are there to help the good guys develop and evolve.

You said this attitude that villains are more interesting is an embracing of what is foul _because_ it is foul, and I agree, for the most part. Now, I'm not saying that people who like interesting villains are evil, or anything like that. Not at all. I'm sure that in most cases, people prefer villains that are interesting simply because the authors/scriptwriters have _made_ them more interesting than the good guys. People like what's interesting. However, there are some people who prefer villains just because of their villainy. I had a personal experience with this just a couple of days ago, and it totally freaked me out. I could be overreacting, but I just don't know. A couple of good friends of mine were chatting, and I entered the conversation just as one friend said that he cheered when the villain won at the end of "Seven." (If I remember the statement correctly, the villain "won" by chopping some poor woman's head off. I haven't seen the movie and don't intend to, so I'm relying on his description of what happened.) Now, in a TV series, it makes things more interesting if the bad guys win occasionally--it adds an air of unpredictability and danger, and makes the situation tense, and gives the good guys more obstacles to overcome. HOWEVER, in a movie, when it's over, it's OVER. And when the bad guy wins, especially if it's a truly dispicable villain, it's just a downer. When I see a movie like that, I end up wanting my money back, because it just offends my sense of justice.

When my friend said he cheered for the bad guy in that movie...I just freaked out. I was disgusted. Especially when he acted as if it was no big deal. He seemed surprised by my reaction, and the reaction of my other friend, who was just as horrified and disappointed as I was. And that's what really had me flabbergasted. He didn't even seem to realize how creepy he was being. O_O It just made my skin crawl. And just a few moments before this revelation, I had found out that this same guy was a member of the Jericho Fanclub, so I was already on edge...I was just totally depressed for the rest of the night.... :( Could be the Jericho thing making me overreact, I admit...both of those hitting me at the same time...so it may not really be as bad as it seems. But right now, it seems pretty damn bad...

I also agree with your comments on the "writing is a form of masturbation" matter. When I write, it's _nothing_ like whacking off. Masturbation is a physical release, and writing...when I'm really on a roll and the story is flowing perfectly, it's as close to a spiritual experience as I'll ever have. As Harlan Ellison once said, "Writing is a holy chore."

Crzy: Well, at first I was simply stumped...unable to understand why, why, WHY anybody could be attracted to a hideous character like that, no matter what he looks like...but now I'm starting to get annoyed. Your comment about the Ricky Martin thing is _way_ off-base. The whole Ricky Martin-sheep thing was a JOKE. We were being smartasses. We were being crude and insulting. We don't _really_ think Ricky Martin does anything with sheep. But the thing is, we despise him, so that's why we're insulting him. It's part of the Joyride mentality--heh, and just be glad that Christine hasn't allowed us to Joyride Jericho himself...which reminds me...

Christine: May we? Puhhhleeeeeeeeze? *evil grin* ;)

Back to Crzy: The crush you have on a character who has sex with his own mother simply doesn't compare to our low-rent, back-alley cheap shots at Ricky Martin. I don't understand it at all, except maybe the sheer shallowness of being willing to let it slide just because he's a "beef cake." (Implying that someone _less_ attractive would _not_ be allowed to get away with something of this brain-damaged magnitude...) This kind of attitude in people is something that I find offensive, disturbing and terribly, terribly disappointing. I mean, sure, I think Demona is physically attractive (at the same time, there are gargs and human characters out there who are just as attractive if not _more_ so...personally, I think my adult version of Arianna is the hottest one of them all :), but I freely admit that she's heinous, I don't drool over her with every breath (my Arianna's the one I drool over, *g*), I don't go join a Demona Fanclub--and the particular version of her that sleeps with her own sun makes me want to vomit. I could never have any kind of attraction for someone like that, and I simply don't understand why anyone else could, I honestly don't get it. Which is why I'm simply dumbfounded by the very knowlege that such a thing as the Jericho Fanclub even exists. Oh, hell, now I'm gonna be depressed for the rest of the night...again.

But whatever. As you and I have both said, let's agree to disagree. I know now that nothing I say will make any difference, anyway, so there's no point in continuing the argument. I'm glad ya still love me :) and hope I haven't offended you with this rant. I'm just being honest and making things "crunchier" as Jewel once phrased it. ;) It's just that...right now, this whole thing is seriously giving me the creeps. But I still love ya, too. :)

Robby: Uhh...the Tigger Movie? Oh gawd...noooooo...things are just looking more and more hopeless... *adds another target to the Joyriders hit list...* ;)

jewel: Yikes! Sorry about the snake bite getting worse. Do you have anything that can bite him and show him what it feels like? *g* Sorry about what happened with the interviews, too. :( I hope one works out very soon. Oh, and the thing about your dog Satan...LMAO! I can just imagine the looks on people's faces. Talk about a picture being worth a thousand words... ;)

Delphi: LMAO!! Feel free to email me some more of those groaners. And don't worry about keeping it PG rated. :) Thanks!

SJ: That "birds and the bees" talk sounds familiar. ;) It's ironic that kids usually know more about sex than their parents. *g* And as for your Jericho comments--*applauds* Bravo! That's exactly the way I feel about it! The Beutfiful People can get away with damn near anything--but if you're not a "hunk" or a "beefcake" your ass is goin' down in flames. *rolls eyes at the stupidity of it all* :) I mean, I think Demona's kinda hot, but in my ficverse, she's gonna be doing a lot of penance... *evil grin*
Pistoff - [phred@koalas.com]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 11:41:30 PM
IP: wire-6.koalas.com

***BEGIN RP***
Back in Hell...

SJ watches as Lonny leaves Mephisto's mansion and the demonic lord swallows his glass of milk in one gulp. He scratches his head in confusion. "Okay, that was a bit surreal...Um, what did you mean about my body being alive without a soul?"
"Well, technically, it does have a soul in it. Just not *your* soul."
SJ's jaw dropped open. "What....what do you mean?"
Mephisto cocked his head. "I'm sorry, are you not following me? I placed another soul in your body. Simple as that."
"What....who-who's soul?"
"Oh, one of my servants."
"For the love of God, WHY???"
Mephisto made a pained face. "Oh, please don't use HIS name here." He smirked. "And I did it because I have plans for you. Your body that is. And, of course, for your dear, sweet, unsuspecting friends."
***END RP***

***BEAST WARS REVIEW***
Good episode today. I like the way the storyline is going, even if Rhinox seems to have become one hell of an enemy. Plus you gotta love a "kiddie" show that's not afraid to get into some of the more metaphysical aspects of reality, i.e. Optimus' "conversations" with the Oracle. I'm excited to see how this season's going to end.
Question for Robby--is there going to be a season 2? For some reason, I was under the impression that a 13 episode run was it for the series. Not due to bad ratings, just that was how they planned it. Am I wrong? I hope so, cause I am digging the show.
***END REVIEW***

***AVENGERS REVIEW****
Okay, this show today committed what I perceive to be a travesty. Today's episode starred Kang the Conqueror as the villain....and he so totally sucked.
Understand this, all non-Marvel or non-comic book fans: Kang the Conqueror is a Marvel villain that frequently fights (primarily) the Avengers. He's also something of a god figure. He's a time traveler, a time manipulator, and he's conquered a future earth. He's been killed numerous times, but he keeps coming back cause he's *everywhere* in time--kill him today, he's there tomorrow. He even played somewhat of a hand in the origin of Apocalypse. In other words, he's a major heavy, and is one of my personal favorite Avenger villains.
Today, he got whored. Pretty much the old "I have technology so superior to yours it'll make you look like a caveman but I think I'll just try to hurt you with a few puny lasers" type of thing....he was a lame-assed villain. All he wanted was this damn obelisk, and spent his time begging the Avengers for it when a being of his power could have just wiped them out of existence. This show is annoying the hell out of me.
***END REVIEW***

Anne: Ah, the old "birds and the bees" talk. Here's where I actually thank God for the lost innocence of youth, cause I learned pretty much everything about sex from friends (and *ahem* the occasional late-night Cinemax movie). My parents tried to talk to me about it once. Without a doubt the MOST uncomfortable non-conversation I've ever had. Went something along the lines of:
Mother: Um, do we need to talk, you know...about sex?
Me: What? JESUS! No, God! I know all about that, okay?
Mother: Well, we didn't know...
Me: God! Can I leave the room now? I have to go vomit.
Sorry, I'm one of those old-fashioned people who don't want to even think of any kind of sexual act and have my parents there, in body or in my mind. To this day I still will never tell a dirty joke when my momma is present. And speaking of mothers and sex....

Jericho: All us non-beautiful guys in the room, we should take the Jericho Factor to heart--the guy's a homicidal maniac, he f***s his momma, and he's insane in the membrane. But he's also beautiful, so CHICKS STILL DIG HIM.

Jenna: I agree about the fallen angel comments. In the Bible Lucifer was called the Morningstar, and was the most beautiful of all the angels. That is how I will portray him in any of my fiction--as perhaps the most beautiful thing in all of creation. I too like the contrast of the most vile beings also supposedly the most beautiful.

I also agree about Stephen King. I have totally burned on King in the last few years. I used to be pretty into his work, but not really anymore. I find his fiction...well, I don't know, lacking. He was sort of my gateway, though, to (IMO) better horror writers such as Clive Barker and H.P. Lovecraft.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 11:14:56 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Light and Darkness> I'll give you a perfect example: Batman (stay with me here on this) Here we've got a guy who chooses a typically demonized animal, the bat as his "crest" and what is he known as? Gotham's "guardian Angel" sure it's no garg thing, but it fits the whole "darkness and light" thing
shogun raptor
Saturday, November 13, 1999 10:07:46 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

Hi everyone, glad you liked the puns. I wish I could say that I made them but most of this stuff is just passed along to me. I've got a great folder full of them now. If anyone would like them let me know and I'll email you some. oh and tell me if you want them PG rated or anything goes cause I've have some I'd never post in here.

here's some more, enjoy:
> Left Bank \left' bangk'\:
> what the robber did when his bag was full of loot.
> Misty \mis'-tee\:
> How golfers create divots
> Paradox \par'-u-doks\:
> two physicians.
> Parasites \par'-uh-sites\:
> what you see from the top of the Eiffel Tower.
> Pharmacist \farm'-uh-sist\:
> a helper on the farm.
> Polarize \po'-lur-ize\:
> what penguins see with.
> Primate \pri'-mat\:
> removing your spouse from in front of the TV.
catch ya'll next time
Delphi - [cmiller@magiclink.com]
Twin Falls, Idaho
Saturday, November 13, 1999 08:36:25 PM
IP: twin58aa.magiclink.com

Hi all:)

Jenna & Warpmind> congrats on the apartments *hugs*

Autumn> Welcome! I came here a few days ago too, and as they say, welcome to insanity ^_^

Christine> *smiles* I think you've been reading too much V.C. Andrews! But Jericho sounds like a pretty interesting character. Can't really say anything on the incest because I don't want to hurt one of my bestfriends who's going through one of these situations with her brother :(

Ironwolf> My cousin is a Satan worshipper, so I can happily say that you, friend, are indeed NOT a Satanist. Not unless you like to torture animals, hiss at black cats, loath white candles, and practice demonology (all of my cousin's hobbies).

Jaden>>Body Basics>> You lucky! I have to buy myself one of those and they're so over-expensive around here.*sigh* Makes me want to be a little kid so I have an excuse for my parents to buy everything for me. But then again the sooner I grow up the sooner I get to the adult comment room.

As for Michael Jackson becoming Edgar Allan Poe...Nonononono! We researchd Poe's life in seventh grade and it was not a pretty picture. Now he's being subjected to this nightmare and now I feel like crying for him!

As for fanfic, I'm thinking about doing this too. If I go on with this, it'll be about how things similary led up to "Future Tense". But then again who wants to see Brooklyn and Demona hook up? *Laughs* Now I'm all the curious to find out!

Oh yeah, my little sister just found out about the birds and the bees a few hours ago. One of her best friends are a boy, and she keeps shivering whenever somebody mentions his name. That girl that dunked our cat in carmel hinted her about it and then she asked mom (if her reaction is this bad then I'm going to really regret it when she finds out about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny). Hopefully we won't have to bring out the ducttape to keep her mouth swinging open to tell all her friends....

Hope everybody has a nice night!

Bye all! :)
Anne
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Saturday, November 13, 1999 07:42:56 PM
IP: 204-246-241-161.nas2.apv.gblx.net

Again, a double post...

Pistoff: Oh, the snake bite's doing better. Or was, until I remimbered I hadn't put neosporin on it in days. I just did, and now it's flared up to a very pretty red and it hurts, which I'm guessing is a sign I shouldn't have slacked all this week. I love my snake, really I do, but I was mightly close to finding out if ball python tastes like chicken. As for the job interview, it was a joke. The twists didn't actually have an opening--they're just trying to find IT/helpdesk people for when they *do* (she said as soon as they had an actually opening, they would call me for a second interview). It was a waste of my time, and it meant I had to drive on Ga400 in the middle of rushhour to get home. But it did have the upside of sending a headhunter who called me into a panic (he heard that I had an interview and flipped) and started talking that the company he was headhunting for offered $17-$18 an hour. Unfortunately, that company is an hour away, so forget it--the commute would hit over 1 1/2 hours. But hopes are high...
jewel
Saturday, November 13, 1999 06:37:35 PM
IP: spider-wk041.proxy.aol.com

"asking to see Lucifer": hee hee. That's familar. When I was little, my dog's name was Satan (I didn't name him!). So when I would go play with my dog, I would say I was going to go play with Satan... and when I talk about him I usualy would say, "Oh, Satan was such a sweetie! I loved Satan when I was a little kid!"
jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 05:56:09 PM
IP: spider-wj021.proxy.aol.com

Hiya Cairo. or Jenna. Or whoever you are. :P

nightwalker: hey, try and persuade your parents to get a cheaper, non-Web TV but with a Dreamcast system for the Internet. That should be a much cheaper alternative. Not ideal still, but probably better than right now by the sounds of it.
Ed
Saturday, November 13, 1999 05:13:12 PM
IP: webcachew07a.cache.pol.co.uk

Long time no write ... been busy with stuff, you know who it gets.

* * * * * REVIEW AND SPOILERS FOR THE BONE COLLECTOR * * * * *
I enjoyed this. It had that classic horror movie feel, and the chick from Hackers was in it. It did have the Scooby Doo ending (the guy with the bit part in the beginning actually being the killer), but that's what gave it the classic horror movie feel. 7/10

* * * * * END SPOILERS FOR THE BONE COLLECTOR * * * * *

* * * * * REVIEW AND SPOILERS FOR KEVIN SMITH'S DOGMA * * * * *

I was lucky enough to get to see this film LONG before it ever came out. It was an unedited, unscored copy, shown to me only days after the filming had ended. Some outtakes weren't even edited out yet. It was an experience. Last Friday I finally saw the final version, and it was just as good. I want to say that alot of stuff WAS edited because of the fit the Catholic League threw, and it was mostley George Carlin's scenes. I am a film and literature student. Kevin Smith is one of my idols. This film, in short, was, in my perfect honest and true opinion, a masterpiece.

* * * * * END SPOLIERS FOR DOGMA * * * * *

* * * * * SPOLIERS FOR TO EVERY SEASON / DRAGON'S STONE * * * * *

Let me say that To Every Season set up alot of characters that will be portrayed this season. I was lucky enough to be accepted onto the TGS writing staff, and I've written four Dark Ages stories this season (two co-writes, two solos) ... it was quite an experience. Dragon's Stone was one of the best Dark Ages stories I think we've ever put out, next to Prince of Thieves and Coming of Age.
* * * * * END SPOILERS FOR TO EVERY SEASON / DRAGON'S STONE * * * * *

All for now, I have some more stuff to do ...

Later all . . .
Ordell - [awaltrip@cableone.net]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 05:05:25 PM
IP: spider-tf011.proxy.aol.com

**RP HERE**

Way down under in the depths of HFIL, Sevarius Junior is conversing with... Some guy he sold his soul to apparently. There is a knock at the door, and the current owner of SJ's soul seems a bit annoyed to be interrupted.
"Come in."
The door opened wide, and in stepped... Lonny.
"Lonny?" Junior exclaimed. "What are you doing here?"
"Uh Hello genius, I'm an *EVIL* twin? Subsequently, after being thrown off a ten thousand foot cliff into a bed of jagged rocks TWICE, cut up into little pieces, pureed in a blender, DNA checked to make sure I wasn't a clone of a clone, and then burned to ash, well, the end result is, I'm dead. And dead evil guys come here, to HFIL."
"You mean you actually use the Saban designation from Dragonball of HFIL?"
Mephisto nodded. "Something of a fun joke."
"Ah." Junior looks to Lonny again. But I gifured why you were HERe, I meant what are you doing HERE in this room?"
"Oh, just delivering the all mighty one here his lunch time glass of milk."
SJ looks incrediously at the villain. "You drink MILK?"
"I like it, so don't knock it. Now then SJ, about whats going on with your body..."
Lonny stepped out of the room, but listened at the door...

**END EP**

**SPOILERS FOR... STUFF!**

TODAY'S BEAST MACHINES

Finally, an episode that had SOMETHING unexpected happen. I swear, up until now its been easy to see episodes in advance what was going to happen next. Rhinox WANTING to stay a vehicon... Sweet! Now I just hope they keep their continuity straight about this... I mean, the writers have forgotten that Ratrap betrayed the Maximals for an episode, (Something I still say he shouldn't get off so easy about) and that the Vehicons wanted their sparks taken back to be free, and they've apparently forggotten Megatron needs only to hit a button to reset a Vehicon's memory... All in all, even after this little plot twist, I still prefer Beast Wars. There was far more character interaction and distinction. Its just not the same without Dinobot or Black Arachnia or Depth Charge being a jerk to the rest of the Maximals, or Waspinator getting blown up all the time, or Rampage, Terrasaur, Tarrantulus, or Quickstrike trying to betray Megatron... I don't know, I just don't think I *CAN* like Beast Machines with the current cast. Maybe season two, when they're supposed to get another female or two...

**END BEAST MACHINES SPOILERS< BEGIN POKEMON THE MOVIE REVIEW**

Well, to anyone who doesn't like the show, this movie probably isn't going to make you convert, but it definatley is a couple of notches above the series. My experiance was a bit tainted because I saw it with friends, but still... Pikachu's Vacation wasn't as annoing as its been made out to be, and was in fact, pretty dang funny. And the actual movie itself had an awesome villain with an awesome voice and power, the music was for the most part very good, (I hope the soundtrack has some of the instrumentals and not just songs "From and inspired by"... the fights were practically taken straight out of dragonball Z, (Heck, I've seen almost all of DBZ including 11 of the 13 movies, and I was still impressed...) and the humor was well done. The movie's only real flaw is that it *did* get a bit preachy near the end, and that the ending made little sense, but otherwise, excellent for any Pokemion fan, and perhaps those out just to watch a battle or DBZ fans. (ANd Mew's actions were just so durn cute!)

**END POKEMON MOVIE REVIEW**

Jackson as Edgar Allan Pow... Um.... No...

Jericho- Um... No opinion really. I never atually got around to reading the stories with him in them. I joined TGS right when I'd started on Christine's stuff and i was around then that I swore of garg fanfic. Ah well...

Jenna- Hey, congrats!

Shogun Raptor- People preffering the dark characters over the light ones because they can get away with more... Usually thats true because the squeaky clean characters are TOO squeaky clean. There's a reason why everyone prefers Wolverine leading the X-Men over cyclops, he's more interesting. But thats not always the case. You pointed out Goku and Vegeta as an example. Well personally, I prefer Goku, though Vegeta has his moments.

SJ- ANother X-men cartoon? Oh geez. Hope they don't pull an Avengers again. If the team is comprised of lousy second teir X-Men with no Wolverine, Storm, ROuge, etc. because they're being "licensed elsewhere"... Ugg. No wait, this is X-Men. Of course they'll have Wolverine. Probably won't have Jubilee or Kitty Pride though...

Doug- Okay, so my number were off by two weeks. Fact still remains, Toy Story two is a large factor in why Disney is dissing Mononoke. They aren't going to have two of their own animated films compteting with one another. Cause heck, if Mononoke did WELL, they wouldn't want Toy Story breaking that up. Yes, Pokemon is a factor I won't deny that, but DIsney themselves is a problem. Then there's that Dreamworks move El Dorodo movie coming out, and also apparently "The Tigger Movie"? Oii... I like Winnie the poo and all but "The Tigger Movie"?

Robby
Saturday, November 13, 1999 04:12:00 PM
IP: spider-wb053.proxy.aol.com

CRZY girl::

*looks at Jericho pic and drools* Ooooo....

Now you see, good or bad, it doesn't matter... fi you got a rear like that one does...

just wanted to share that little hentai thought...

(thinks she has jericho pic froma while back.. clicky!)
Mara Cordova - [MCordova99@hotmail.com]
Brooklyn, NY, USa
Saturday, November 13, 1999 02:49:55 PM
IP: spider-tp063.proxy.aol.com

Hi guys, **sigh**. I hate webtv. Well, the tube in our tv is going out and it take about 2 hours for the images to reach the bottom of the screen. Plus about 2 weeks ago the webtv creators offered an upgrade. I was so happy, I thought that I'd finally be able to load up the fics, everytime I try I only get about half of it and never any more. But now I can't even load up the entire CR. It's even worse now. And I found out that I'm not getting a comp. in Dec. It might be another year. This sux.

We're going soon , I just wanted to check in really quick. I'll try to get in later to post my Princess Mononoke review and the hell that it was getting there. I've missed you all. And I'm sorry that I couldn't get here earilier. I wish I had a computer. I wish I had a computer I wish I had a computer........

Chris- well, I shouldn't say this but, he backed out. He gave my mom that stupid I think I should have time to think about this excuse. The last few weeks have been filled with my mom looking a bit down . Lately though, she gotten through it. I admire her so much. Looks like it's just the three of us again.

I gotta go. Bye all.
nightwalker - [goliath01@hotmail.com]
hobart, IN, usa
Saturday, November 13, 1999 01:54:52 PM
IP: proxy-383.public.rwc.webtv.net

Okay, here is what I find amusing. The same people who DISPISE Jericho for his relationship to Demona, are the same people who think it is halarious to talk about Ricky Martin with sheep. ... and I thought I was the CRZY one.

I got a bit rebellious yesterday. For those of you who think that Jericho is ONLY my favorite character because he Gargoyle beef cake, I drew a picture for you all! >:) Clicky clicky!! MWAAA HAA HAAA!! :P

Pistoff - My love... I think we should just agree to disagree on this one. I still love ya! :)
CrzyDemona
Saturday, November 13, 1999 01:37:45 PM
IP: 209.150.94.75

Warpmind > I did get the MiST thing you sent, and while I got quite a few chuckles out of it, I can't use it for AvMists because of the PG rating thing.

Jericho > the next major developments in his storyline (not counting all this weirdness in Birdie's apartment) will take place in a story called "Damien," but I have no idea when that one'll be ready.

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 01:17:58 PM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net

Ed- Hey there Clan Brother!!
jenna
Saturday, November 13, 1999 09:43:58 AM
IP: ppp-207-193-227-167.hstntx.swbell.net

Lots to comment to in just one night- whew! :)

Servius Jr- RAY BRADBURY!!!!! NOOOOOO!!! NOt my idol!!!! I love his work, and one of my most treasured posessions is a autographed copy of "martian chronicles"- Hell definately be in my prayers.

Writing as a form of mast.- *rolls eyes- oh, please* I am not surprised as to who said this- I for one can't stand Steven King- The only bits of his work I like are his short stories, where he can't carry on for 20 pages about this or that * rolls eyes again *

**********rant bit ***********

Writing can be very akin to that- if you choose to write that way. But I think that like sex, not mas. , writing can produce life- I pretty much agree with Jeffery Robbins and his stance on the written word- it is our legacy, even if it doesn't neccessarly get published in our lives, at least now we have the internet where it can be published-- (to me that is one of the best things about the net- to display writing and art in a way that the establishment cannot control. But I digress.

***************End***********

Pistoff- you got a furbee??! My coworker and I got one and boy did we have evil fun with him. He was all white so we called him "Lucifer" as a joke (Lucifer is latin for 'cast in light') He was trying to "currupt" him, but my coworker lost intrest- But people used to stop by the mailroom at work (that's where we work) and ask to see lucifer- it was hilarous!!

Good characters vs Bad-- well, I for one don't think that if a charcter is good, that doesn't mean they are now perfect. then they be boring. But as for evil charcters- I find them interesting, but I do see one disturbing trend in today. There is a growing tendecy to make the most perverted character and embrace him- I'm thinking of things like "American Psycho." I once had one person tell me as he was watching silence of the lambs, that the serial killer (not hannibal lecter but the guy who was killing women) was just a part of nature- that this type of evil was a part of nature. My response: Yeah, I'd like to see you in that pit and tell me that. (those of you who have seen this movie will know what I'm talking about)

That type of attitude scares me- it seems- an embrassing of what is foul, because it is foul.

One of the things I like to write about the most, regarding evil and good, is they so rarely come out in the forms that we suspect them too. That is why in my fan cycle the most angelic looking gargoyle is the most evil- (Titan) .In my story, demons don't have horns,ect. They look like angels- because that is what they are. Fallen Angels. And again Lucifer does mean cast in light, and he's called the "son of the morning" in the bible. He wouldn't be called that if he was the typcial characture of the devil. And that's why in "let there be gargoyles" I had gargoyles be a direct creation of God. It's kind of a reverse - what looks angelic, turns out to be demonic; and what appears demonic (the gargoyles and angels) turn out to be divine. And I don't do this as a parody.

I suppose this goes to my belief that God is not as shallow as we are. After all he did make both the day and night in Genesis and said they were BOTH GOOD. I get really tired of having the night or nocturnal animals demonized- that gets very old.

Well, I ranted a bit.

Thanks for all those who congradulated me on the new apt- we can't wait to move!! :D


jenna
Saturday, November 13, 1999 09:39:58 AM
IP: ppp-207-193-227-167.hstntx.swbell.net

***TGS: DARK AGES SPOILERS***

Finally, a chance to read this!! And... I loved it. Well-written, well-characterised, a solidly good story which kept a character focus on the Archmage but incorporated a wealth of other important points at the same time. Just the job! The Archmage does make a nice villain for such occasions – not as a Shredder-style ‘how shall we beat the Archmage’s plot this week chappies?’ but certainly cropping up from time to time. He has a great role to play anyway, so you can’t overlook him.

This was a wonderful ep. Lovely job.

8/10

***END SPOILERS***

Jenna: Big double congrats to you and Mike for getting the flat you wanted! ^_^

Well, here’s a little bag of contention. I realise this is late, but here are my comments on the matter…

***CONTROVERSIAL HITLER STUFF***

Stalin and Hitler: In my mind Stalin is ‘worse’ if that’s a worthwhile judgement. The only reason that he isn’t treated as such can only be because the Western World never sorted him out. He died peacefully in his bed… it wasn’t a victory.

The WW2 Holocaust: Firstly, I find it somewhat annoying that the only people remembered for having been killed here are Jews… Hitler killed a load of people, but it’s only the largest (and most vocal) group that get registered. Now – was it bad? Yes, of course it was bad. You just can’t go around saying ‘hey, here’s a fabbo idea… let’s wipe out a minority group today!’.

But then, although I can’t condone Hitler, I can’t bring myself to hold him in that great a contempt. I really think he was convinced of his views and carried out what he felt was best for the advancement of his country. I can’t really find fault with that…

And to an extent I can see why he might see that. Germany gets done over in a world war. It’s a proud brilliant nation, and suddenly it’s robbed blind by British and American vultures after it’s narrowly toppled in ‘the war to end all wars’. Then, just as foreigners are a bit of a nightmare, it starts becoming apparent that Jewish people and gypsies are prospering… but these aren’t really seen as German. You’ve got to expect some kind of knee-jerk reaction here. That’s not to say he was right to kill them. But at the time he carried it out, I doubt he was thinking about how right it was. Galvatron, I think, hits the nail on the head here (comment dated, Friday, November 12, 1999 05:09:43 AM). It’s a similar instinctive hatred.

Hitler genuinely did try to further his nation (Greater Germany, I mean – I’m not talking about Austria). I have a hard time hating this sort of stuff. What I hate is petty acts of maliciousness. Paedophiles, murders etc. And larger scale acts of maliciousness which use nationalism as an excuse, like Gerry Adams who will never reach an agreement as long as his protection rackets are succeeding, but will claim that he acts for the good of the people. That’s just sick. But since I myself have nothing but contempt for the man, I can understand therefore why many in this room would feel similarly about Hitler.

But I don’t think pure evil can exist; it’s too subjective to ever truly come out. I don’t believe the Holocaust in Germany was pure evil, nor the IRA, nor any paedophile on the street. Good and bad cannot exist independent of one another.

Green Baron (re: post dated Tuesday, November 9, 1999 02:29:15 PM, Chamberlain rant) I think judging Chamberlain on his ineffectiveness then is perhaps overly harsh. Ask yourself this: if he had acted, could he have beaten Germany? I suspect not. Him acting too early could have made things worse for Britain, not better.

***THAT’S ALL FOLKS!***

hahah... England have just scored against the Scots --- woo-hoo!! Right, off to watch the match with the rest of the nation - ta-ta for now. :)
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
London, England
Saturday, November 13, 1999 09:19:39 AM
IP: webcacheh05a.cache.pol.co.uk

Hi all!!

Green Baron:<<What exactly is Remembrance Day?>>It's the day that we remember our war dead.I think you call it veteran's day,am I right?

Pistoff:<<*applause* Bravo! Very well done! :D I just have one question about the photograph of Ricky Martin and the sheep--which one was pitching, and which was catching? *evil grin* MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!>>*Snickers*Ricky would definatly be catching>;)

Ray Bradbury:Oh my!,I do hope he recovers.

Wilek:<<I'd like to call everyone's attention to my name link, one of the best pages on the Internet. >:)>>Yay!! a killing Jar Jar Binks website.>:)

Jenna:Congrats on the new place.

Goodnight all!!
Xanathar
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Saturday, November 13, 1999 06:18:48 AM
IP: 139.134.27.66

Gunjack> <<when I was telling one of the guys in my youth group about it. When I got to the summon spells, he just looked at me and said, "You know that's withcraft, right?">> <blink> What? <sigh> Such ignorance...<<Pity the poor gunjack who doesn't know who ANY of the mad scientists are... Who's this Dr. Nguyen?>> Some idiot who posted here and flamed Theresa for no apparent reason just to see what would happen. He wasn't quite expecting rants, death threats, and de facto banishment. >:) <<I think I'll just crawl under my desk and gibber now, if it's all the same to you...>> Congratulations, Pis, you've destroyed someone's mind. ;) <<A simple statement? Or a multilayered explanation of Life, Death, Love, The National Tax Code, and Why Limburger Cheese Smells So Bad?>> Actually, it's a densely-coded summary of the international/interplanetary conspiracy to create a biogenic interstellar vehicle known as the Cthulhu Project. ;)

Warpmind and Jenna> Congratulations on the new apartments! :)

Christine> <<was the name I had for Renard's doc long before the whole sociology thing, actually; I hadn't given it another thought. It was in, I think, "Romances" that he was first mentioned.>> O_O' The Garg-Fans Collective Subconscious strikes again...<<I am an emotional vampire>> Oh dear gods...it all makes sense now...the strange ceremonies, the mysterious suicides, the crop circles...<composes a frantic e-mail to Lord Malkav> ;)

Taleweaver> <<Characters I write have a habit of jumping off the page. (Some even decide to move in, but that's another story) Does anyone else find themselves having to explain a characters death to them.>> Not really, but my own character Dahak DEMANDED--I mean he stopped just short of taking hostages--that I base his appearance on the cover of Amadeus (instead of upon Ashtar from Ninja Gaiden II).

Warpmind> <<my computer. Which, by the sound of it, seems much similar to yours. I call it Ahasverus nowadays...>> <blink> Who else in here has named their computer? o_o

Aaron> <<Really bizarre fic idea, partially inspired by Vatana: A group of characters, and/or fans get picked up by a mysterious force and sent bombing, Sliders-like, through the wild and wcky world of gargoyles fan fic.>> <muhahaha> Brilliant. >:) If you ever get around to writing this thing, I'll be happy to lend you my ficverse. ;)

Groaners> Please...make...the hurting...stop... :P

Killing Characters>
**SPOILERS FOR MY FICS**

Anyone remember Cocytus from This Ascension? In the first draft of that, he would have died, horribly. But...I started to realize that he was too cool and had too much potential to just kill off like that. So I had him tossed into an Annwnian prison. Where he is expected to starve to death sometime within the next few years, but who knows. As for everyone else...well, there are a few characters who are pretty much destined to die, both original Gargs cast and my own characters. I think that'll be fun. >:)

**END**

Mara> Oh, BTW, you're welcome to MST my fics. ;)

Fire Storm> car troubles> ACK!!! Are there THAT many bad drivers in your area (ironic, since it's Detroit)?! O_O'

Doug> Welcome back!! :D And thanks for the Devil's Advocate review. :) <<Al Pacino did a great job as Satan in the form of a lawyer. :)>> In the form of--you know, that just makes so much sense it's scary. <<Interesting choice. I'd go for a black convertible version of Knight Rider's KITT myself, one that could transform into a Humvee, a minisub, and a helicopter. <grin>>> I think mine would be along the lines of something from MASK. Does anyone else remember that show?

Pistoff> <<Uhhh...your friends gave you a Furby for your birthday? Oh gawd... well, perhaps you can think up something...creative to do with it.>> Heh...maybe she could use parts of an old broken stereo or computer or something to Borgify it? :)

BTW, all, I'd like to call everyone's attention to my name link, one of the best pages on the Internet. >:)
Wilek Nereus
Saturday, November 13, 1999 04:06:55 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

Lady Mystic: Uhh...oops. It wasn't Ghost in the Machine. It was Ghost in the _Shell_ . *smacks my forehead* Heh...well, I said my thoughts were in a jumble... ;)

Gunjack: Heh, glad I could provide some laughs. But... <<gibbergibbergibber*>> Um, are you gonna be okay?
Pissy yet again
Saturday, November 13, 1999 03:58:04 AM
IP: wire-7.koalas.com

All wound up and nothing to shoot.

Dang.

It's been a gunny (or is that gunnish?) evening... I've spent the last six hours playing X-COM, watching "Patriot Games", working out a character death for one of my innumerable unwritten fics, and figuring out how to rig a telescoping, auto-extend/retract folding silencer onto a 10mm pistol...
How's that for abnormality?

And then I get in here, and most of the discussion has been about the relative merits of incestous relationships between gargoyles. And as I sit here trying to formulate a post, it seems that my internet service is about to terminate... Bummer.

Ooo, cherry cheesecake! *slips into Homer Simpson voice*
Mmm... cheese and cherry cake... wonder if it's chedder?

Delphi - Where the HECK do you get those marvelous puns?!? :) Loved 'em!

Mary C><<Eh... ignore her, she's stil recovering from WEEDS.>> Weeds? Did she eat poisenous plants? Smoke four joints at a time? I'm so confused... And combat trousers?!?
*Valentine sinks back into his chair* I'm almost CERTIAN I missed something here... :)

Shogun Raptor><<speaking of fanfics and bloodshed, If anyone wants one, I'll send a copy of "oooh that's GOTTA hurt" to 'em, it's a gargs/CDM crossover[.]>> MUST HAVE!!!

Kaito><<You know, it never ceases to amaze me how a $6,000 photocopier can be crippled by a $0.0001 staple. It also fascinates me how the situation can be remedied with a paperclip.>> A simple statement? Or a multilayered explanation of Life, Death, Love, The National Tax Code, and Why Limburger Cheese Smells So Bad? Find out next time on *Secrets... Of The Sage!*
Heh. How's that for a TV show? Any time Kaito says something un-philosophical, an independent panel of intelectuals picks his statement appart looking for hidden meaning. :) Just kidding, Kaito... ;)
Sort of...

Kaito><<Oscar Schindler, I do believe, eventually joined the Nazi party to keep his factory open>> According to the movie, Schindler STARTED OUT as a Nazi...

Jenna - Glad to hear that the new place is safer... As for that old complex... *spits disgustedly* Two words.
Shot. Gun.
Personally, I don't like even passing by places like that without some kind of weapon on my person...

Pisstoff><<And as for the infamous "Scully and Mulder will kiss this season," I think it'd be amusing if they finally kissed...and it didn't cause any sparks between them. They liplock, then give each other funny looks and say, "You know...this just doesn't do it." ;)>> ROTFLMFHO
YESSS!!!! *Trying to supress a facebending grin, Valentine scans through Pisstoff's character rundown* Otto *WHAT*? Arraina and Clyde... Canmore? Horn-

oh...

oh, my...

I think I'll just crawl under my desk and gibber now, if it's all the same to you...
*gibbergibbergibber*
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 03:16:26 AM
IP: 1cust34.tnt3.dfw5.da.uu.net

Oops, forgot something....

Mandolin: I forgot to put the link to Cool Page in the last post. Here it is.... :)
Pissy again
Saturday, November 13, 1999 02:32:42 AM
IP: 207.48.109.31

NO RP TONIGHT I'VE HAD A HEADACHE FOR ABOUT 6 HOURS NOW AND I CAN'T THINK.

Jar Jar- Jaden quickly dives under his bed and wimpers, "No! No please not again!"

Jericho-Well since everyone is giving their views why not mine? He's a rather odd character (in a good way). He sort of contradicts himself...a rather human-like quality. ;)

Fire Storm-At least they weren't life threating hits. I hope you don't have to go through any more.

*****THE BONE COLLECTOR MOVIE REVIEW****
It's not much of one, but I saw this movie and just had to talk about it. I went to see it because I had some time to kill and I didn't really know what it was about. The ticket-teller said it was like the movie Seven only better, and it was. There were some surprises, but it got a little predictable toward the end if you knew what to look for.
All in all I would recommend it if you like cop/psycho films. Though if I never see a guy being eaten alive by rats I'll be extremely happy.
****END MOVIE REVIEW****

See ya later!
Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.com]
Los Alamos, CA
Saturday, November 13, 1999 02:32:17 AM
IP: cache2.avtel.net

Okay, finally geting caught up...this is some stuff from last week. Hope I don't miss any replies, but my thoughts are kind of a jumble, right now....

Warp: Ah that scene with the Stormtrooper nearly getting his head knocked off...actually, I don't have a clip of it. I saw a photo of it in a magazine I've got laying around here somewhere. I'll put it on my site as soon as I find it... <<I don't really know if Jericho dying is such a good thing. After all, when he goes, that will most likely be the last straw for Demona.>> Well, good! I hope that's exactly what happens. As I mentioned earlier, when this particular version of Demona started bumping pubes with her own son, she passed the point of no return. I hope her spirit is completely broken and left in a thousand pieces, and she spends the rest of eternity locked in a room with soft walls, weeping until her tear ducts run dry. :) <<By the way, you have received my application, right? *Looks over at Pistoff and cringes.*>> Bubba, I _do_ hope that was just a joke. ;)

Jannie: Glad you enjoyed Clerks. :) Had me pegged as the video clerk, eh? Heh, that sounds about right. ^_^ That "sequel" we talked about was delayed by RL problems today. I'm still working on it, though....

SJ: (re: "Happy Scrappy Hero Pup" scene) LOL! One of my favorites, too. This is the main reason I sometimes entertain thoughts of working in a video store that rents porno movies, just so I can see the looks on people's faces in a scene like that. heheheh And I agree with you about Dark City--it tanked at the box office because people would rather see crap than something that might make them think. :( And I also agree about sitcoms--I can't stand them. The only one I ever really cared for was "Married...with Children." ;) Sorry about the problems you've been having with your family. :( How _dare_ they say you're worthless and stupid?! Screw 'em! You're _not_ either of those things! You're part of _our_ family, you mean a great deal to us and we value your insights. :)

Jessie: Uhhh...your friends gave you a Furby for your birthday? Oh gawd... well, perhaps you can think up something...creative to do with it. ^_~ Glad your birthday was a good time in spite of this. :D

Kitainia: I may have mentioned this before, but I don't remember. So, just in case, I'm glad you and Doug are looking forward to Vacuum Riders. A major part of the storyline was changed due to a disagreement, but most of it is salvageable. :) In fact, it opens up a few possibilities. I'm already getting ideas for adding Graeme into the mix... *g* Thanks again for suggesting him. :D

Mandolin: Glad you like my site. :D And yep, I used an automatic HTML editor. It's called Cool Page, and boy, it's cool, alright! It took me about an hour to set up the entire website. I'll put the link on my name, click away to see the description of Cool Page. :)

X-Files season premiere: Well, this one is sort of an "in-between" story, indicated by the "TO BE CONTINUED" at the end of the ep. The conclusion should clear some things up. Then again, this _is_ the X-Files. Everything will probably end up being even more muddled than before... ;) One thing I liked about the premiere was that the character who was assisting Scully (I don't remember her name or what kind of doctor or whatever she was) was kinda hot. ;) I love that accent, it kinda reminds me of my last girlfriend... *sigh*. Oh boy, I better not get started on _that_... ahem... I also agree with Doug--I'd like to see Scully and Fowley get into a catfight. *g* And as for the infamous "Scully and Mulder will kiss this season," I think it'd be amusing if they finally kissed...and it didn't cause any sparks between them. They liplock, then give each other funny looks and say, "You know...this just doesn't do it." ;)

Okay, now for some...slightly...more recent stuff... ;)

Zath: (re: more pics) Thanks, I'm glad you'd like to do more for me. :D Next one I'd like to see (from Vacuum Riders) is Boiler, or (from the main G2K series) Otto Fellatio. A pic of him and Purgatory together would be fun.... *just brainstorming a little* I'll send a description or two, when I have time... <<Since I was just about the "right age" when it was on the air, I didn't have to hide the fact that I was watching Gargoyles, but I did have to start keeping all my writing on unlabeled floppies because I found out my mom would periodically go through Windows Explorer and read all my recently modified .doc files on the hard drive.>> ACK!!! That just isn't right at ALL! What _is_ it with parents who think they have the right to violate their kids' privacy?! That's one of the worst things anybody could do--and to do it to their own kids... *growls* My mom does similar things to me...sometimes she walks up behind me when I'm chatting with a friend on ICQ and reads over my shoulder. I ask her to go away, and she acts as if I have no right to try to run her off. So I just type, "brb" and then shut the monitor off until she leaves. That's one of the reasons I never indulged in cybersex--just imagine what I'd have to put up with if she ever saw something like _that_... ;) But I just don't understand why some parents want to spy on their kids like that...it just ain't right... :(

Lady Mystic: <<YES! Another person who actually HATES Pokemon!>> Yessss! With a vengeance! Bad enough that it's...uggh!...CUTE...but it continues the trend in animation of giving so-called adults the impression that animation is just kids' stuff. Heh, that's the impression my mom always had...but then one day she was sitting there while I was watching Ghost in the Machine...*L* To say she was shocked would be like saying that the sun is kinda bright. ;)

Coyote: <<I had as much fun writing those captions as you did reading them.>> Thanks! I think the others who sent theirs in had just as much fun. :) I'll be adding more of the one-liners to that page when I have time. Now, if I can just remember to email Mara and ask her if she'd like to take a shot at it. This is right up her alley. ;)

jewel: (re: snake bite) ack! I didn't see that one when I was skimming the room earlier. I hope it wasn't too serious. Congrats on the job interviews, and good luck. :)

Dags: Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner. "Injustice" part 2 is sill "in production." It's coming along, though, and we hope to have it finished soon. I'm also working on the first installment of "Vinnie's Story" as well, and I think it's close to being finished... :)

Xanathar: (re: Ricky Martin public humiliation scene) *applause* Bravo! Very well done! :D I just have one question about the photograph of Ricky Martin and the sheep--which one was pitching, and which was catching? *evil grin* MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Skippy: (re: PI) Ack, I missed that one. But I guess I didn't miss much, judging from your comments. Who would've guessed that Kevin Smith would've been such a gentleman??? O_O

Aaron: Another good point about Jericho--no loyalty. He had Demona, then tried to do Angela...it's things like that which will probably lead to his death...and the sooner, the better. :) <<"Could be worse. We coulda ended up in the Watsonverse.">> ROTFLMAO! That's great! I'd love to see that one! :D

Fire Storm: Glad you liked the Jericho Fanclub Joyride. :) Thanks. <<I take it you are not too fond of seeing Jackal and Hyena together either.>> Ack! ACK!! AAAAAAAAAACK!!!! *pukes* Uh...NO. If that ever happened in my ficverse, those two would be slaughtered immediately. ;)

marc: About adaptations for gargoyles' nocturnal life--I'd say it's very likely. They probably have eyes that can see farther into ranges of the EM spectrum that humans can't see. One theory I've put forth in my own fics is that, if gargoyles no longer turn to stone, they would be almost blinded by sunlight because their eyes aren't adapted for it. So, in my ficverse, gargoyles have to wear sunglasses during the day in order to see....

Jenna: In case I didn't mention it earlier, congrats on the new apartment! :D I'm so glad you and Mike got away from that crappy place you were in. *hugs* I'm glad to hear that things are so much better now. :) Sorry I've taken so long to answer your email, things have been hectic here. I'll reply soon. :)

Stephen: You find incest to be "slightly disagreeable"? Ehhhh...no, I'm not gonna start on this one... Anyway, about your point that the Jericho thing is just fiction--well, DUH! Obviously, it's just fiction. But it's a part of Gargoyles fanfic, and this is a Gargoyles comment room. And it's better than the flame wars we've had recently, isn't it? :)

Spike: <<I have to remind myself that this is not a human species we're dealing with and that they no doubt have different cultural values.>> Well, IMO, people who say this are simply making excuses. In fact, if the Demonas from other ficverses could see what was going on in this particular ficverse, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just as sickened by this Demona and her boy-toy as many other people here.... ;-D

Christine: <<There's little that could be said about Jericho that would offend me. He _is_ a spoiled brat, he _is_ pretty much everything that everyone says he is. I don't have a big personal stake tied up in him. He's INSANE, an utter psycho, sociopathic, a master of self-delusion and rationalization.>> *nods* Well, there you have it, people. ;)

Mara: Another MiST? Oh jeez, yet _another_ fic I have to read as soon as I can get to it... ;)

Good or evil characters: Well, personally, I prefer writing about my good guys. Of course, the reason they're more interesting to me could be that they're rather twisted, themselves. I mean, my ficverse has a horny 13-year-old hacker named Otto Fellatio (I must point out that he's an emancipated minor, just so I don't get anybody jumping on me about child pornography ;) whose lover is a 120-year-old gargoyle who ended up in a 30-something body due to a side-effect of a cloning process...Jack Hammer, who's been delivering pizzas for five years (no explanation needed for why he's screwed-up ;)... Vince Kozlowski, who witnessed the Earth's destruction and the deaths of 9 billion people before being sent into the past (and that's bound to mess ya up a little ;)...Machiko Ryushi, a chain-smoking gargoyle who's a bit of a psycho hose-beast (Jon Canmore can tell you plenty about _that_)...Horny-Corny (her nickname says it all)..."Vinnie's Story" will introduce a couple of new characters (I'm not sure how they'll evolve, but I'll find a way to make 'em slightly skewed :)...and "Vacuum Riders" will have the always-angry Boiler, the always-naughty Arianna the sex maniac, and her mate Clyde Canmore--both of whom have a tendency to keep everybody awake at night. Heh, this is gonna be fun... *g*

Delphi: Oh gawd, more groaners! ROTFLMAO!! Thanks. :)

Knowing when your characters are going to die: I usually try to avoid this until a character is no longer useful, then it doesn't matter much whether they die or not. If a certain plot requires a character to die, then that's what'll happen, even though I do get attached to my characters. Can't stand in the way of a good story. And then there are a few characters who were created for the specific purpose of dying at a certain plot point, though that's also difficult when I get attached to them--but ya gotta do what needs to be done. Occasionally I let a character be killed just for the hell of it, or just for shock value, but to do that too often would cause it to lose the shock effect. But mostly I like to just keep tormenting my characters, raking them over a cheese grater. ;) tee hee hee

Ray Bradbury: I hadn't heard about this. Thanks, SJ. I, too, hope he has a speedy recovery.

Writing as a form of masturbation: Hmmm...well, that's certainly the case when writing pornography. *L*

Doug: Glad to see you back in here, and glad you're feeling better. :) I was happy to send that feedback, finally, and will send more as soon as I can.

Oh my god, I'm actually caught up! Wonder how long it'll last... ;)

"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive, but it's lightning that does the work." --Mark Twain to Nikola Tesla

Pistoff - [phred@koalas.com]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 02:26:59 AM
IP: 207.48.109.31

**WARNING- STORM OF RP HEADED THIS WAY :)**

"What was that, Jaden?" Jammer asks, hearing the werewolf make a comment as they walk down the hall. "Nothing!" Jaden quickly shouts. "I was just, uh, acknowledging a reality of life." Keith nods. "So I heard. It's nothing to get mad about, people, don't worry. Just unpleasant but true. Sooner or later we all die." "Oh, shut up," Kit's immortal sister Stephanie snaps, and Keith rolls his eyes. "Pika?" a small yellow creature following the Ravens asks in confusion. Mist answers it with a loud hiss and Pikachu runs away chirping loudly. "Hmm," Gubio muses, "why didn't he shock you?" Mist shrugs. "Mrow." "It doesn't matter," Doug says, pointing to the infirmary ahead of them (which Teri just walked into). "Let's go see SJ." The others nod and they head in to find a doctor and Wilek waiting for them. "Where's Sevarius Jr.?" Kit asks the latter. "We heard he died but came back." Wilek points to one of the ICU rooms and says, "He's in there, but don't go in yet. Corrie still has visitation on family only status. So only his dad and Kari, who I told Corrie was SJ's fiance, are allowed to go in. They're in there with him now." "You must have seen a certain Sandra Bullock movie," Shauna chuckles, then sits down. "Fine, guys, let's wait. I'm just glad SJ's alright." "Me too," Elena agrees, then notices that Shap and Orion are both frowning. "Guys, what's the matter?" "That room," Shap replies, pointing to where Wilek said SJ was. "I don't know about you guys, but my God-given detect evil power is pinpointing some major bad vibes in there." Orion nods, indicating his own sense evil power is doing the same. "That's strange," Wilek frowns. "I thought we cleaned out all the evil on the Avatar." "Maybe not," Erin says, checking her assualt rifle's magazine. "Shall we head on in there?" "Wait," Doug frowns. "The evil could just be coming from Sevarius Sr. He's usually a pretty bad guy." "True," Lathrop agrees. A polite cough interrupts them, and the group turns to see a very sad-faced Avatar doctor who happens to look like a blue-haired Nurse Joy (of Pokemon fame). "You're the Black Ravens?" she asks them. "We are," Tricia replies. "Is there something wrong?" The doctor nods grimly. "Your friend, Ms. Ripowski, is..." "No!" Tom shouts, pushing past her into the room the doctor just came out of. "Wait, Tom!" Kitainia yells as the other Ravens chase the engineer. The doctor giggles in their wake, looking at Wilek. "I was just going to tell them that she's alright now despite the complex operation we had to do. Can you believe how often that trick works?" "Now that I've seen it so many times," the blue gargoyle laughs along, "yes."

**TUNE IN NEXT TIME TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENED TO JANICE. END RP FIRST HALF**

Greetings everyone. As you can see, I am now back in good spirits and the CR. :) Again, sorry about my rant provoking such a terrible flame war, I'll try not to let it happen again. <tosses salt over shoulder for luck> Glad that it at least inspired the mention of some good quotes and a lot of friendly support. Those are two gifts that always brighten a person up, so again, thanks to all who gave them. I really appreciated it, glad to know I have so many friends beside me even if we don't agree all the time. :) Anyway, now that I'm back, I of course have to reply to stuff, so let's begin. L

Fanfic Progress: Been continuing work on Part 1 of "Inner Demons" despite my recent depression. Yes, the story is a two parter now. It was just getting so long I had to make it so. :) Part 1 is going to mainly be dealing with Seth's homecoming and the various characters' reactions to it (most of which are of course welcoming) and the setup for Part 2, which will tell the story of a campaign of race riots in Harlem that in a single day erupt into street war and then are even more quickly snuffed out. After the obligatory huge gargoyles and cops vs. punks and super-thugs battle scene and an impressive speech by Diane Maza, of course. :) Almost through with the first part right now, I just have to set up the big end cliffhanger where Goliath...wait, that would be a spoiler. I'm not going to say till after it's out. <grin>

Todd: I thought those monsters looked a little familiar. :) Glad to know I'm not the only writer in the business who's bringing Chulthu-type demons into the Gargs universe. (The Demon Lord Cantrum, an upcoming Season 3 villain in my ficverse, is going to like and act kinda Chulthu-esque. He'll have shimmering dark green skin, purple tentacles for hair, be able to set off telekinetic explosions, and abhor making collect calls. :) Cyber cookie to the one who can explain the latter joke.)

Robby: Actually Toy Story 2 doesn't come out till Thanksgiving. Sorry to have to correct you on this information error. Hmm, this makes things look like Princess Mononoke was limited in release by Disney partially because of Pokemon. <grimaces> This is bad. Oh well, Kit and I still intend to see Princess Mononoke when we're in Houston on the 23rd. Hope it's still playing. <prayer to God>

Wilek: I thought Devil's Advocate was a pretty good movie. Al Pacino did a great job as Satan in the form of a lawyer. :) The film went a little nuts toward the end with lousy plot developments and Keanu Reeves was his usual vapid self but other than that it was great. I recommend you rent it. :)

David G: Like Kit said, good luck with the novel and hope you're able to soon work on Freelance 4 again. I'll be waiting to read both.

Hitler: Can't really have much of an opinion on this guy since he was before my time. However, from what I've read and heard about him, I do agree that Hitler was one of this century's most awful villains. His pal Himmler was just as bad and so were a lot of the other Nazis (not Rommel, though, or at least not right before his end). Some of them may still be out there. (I know that at least one of the main Nazis, Martin Bormann, escaped. He could be around today, I know he is in my ficverse. :) Anyway, Hitler was a bad guy and the Holocaust was one of his most despicable acts. If somebody like Hitler showed up today, I would definitely be opposing and if necessary fighting against that person. With all my skill. :) <Wicked Witch voice> "I'd get that crazy Nazi and his little dogs too! Ehheheheheh!" <back to normal> Sorry, couldn't resist doing that. My apologies to any people in here who believe Hitler was on some level a decent man. You can't help but have a negative opinion of him and all he stands for when you've played Wolfenstein 3d as much as I. <grin>

David G: You have the flu? Hope it's over by now (if so, I'm glad). If not, I'll keep up the prayers for you. <kills Sli Sludge in despicably undescribable manner, hoping it helps>

Buffy and Angel eps: Like I said before, they were good. Both had excellent plots and acting. Angel was hilarious and full of memorable moments, as was Buffy to a lesser degree (it wasn't funny, of course, but memorable, yes). The emotion in both was also really prevalent, and I could feel it just by watching. I had no trouble suspending disbelief. :) Some of your best writing yet, Whedon, despite the very sad ending of the Buffy episode. Hopefully when the Wizard comes back, he'll have more control over his hairy side. :)

Christine: You're an emotional vampire? That sure explains a lot! :) As for Jericho, I too like him because he's an excellent character. Sometimes the most despicable villains can be the most fun to read about. I must say, though, that I've liked Jerry better in Club Gung-Ho and the Amazon stories than his stories with Demona. Oedipal relationships sicken me as much as, if not more than, anyone else. Despite that aspect of his life, he's still a good character, though, I'm not disputing that. Can hardly wait to see any further development ahead.

Writing Villains: I agree, they are much funner to develop than heroes. Don't know why, but they are. Lots of examples of it in my writing- I know I like Jadriel's egotism more than Nikki's angst, the super-thugs' development is taking over a lot of scenes in my upcoming story, and Silvan was my favorite original character in all the ficverse (and many fans' as well, shame he had to die).

Delphi: Great jokes, even if they made me roll my eyes as well as laugh. Let us know if you find more, okay? <smiles, then frowns, thinking of his recently deceased great Uncle James who was great at finding jokes like that and other humor bits on the net>

Jewel: Congrats on the job interview. Hope it comes through. Definitely share your opinion on Misery (one of my favorite Stephen King stories along with Needful Things, the Dark Half, and the Stand). Glad you, Kit, and I have the same opinion on Blair Witch. :)

SJ: <You're lucky you have someone like Kit--or Lisa if you want--to give you some hands-on support. :)> I never cease doubting that. ;) Thanks again to you and everyone for being friends.

Micheal Jackson as Poe: No! Don't get me wrong, I adore the guy's music, but can he act? No! At least, to my knowledge, he can't act well enough to give a complex role like Poe's the justice it deserves. Why couldn't Hollywood get someone who could do the part, like I don't know, Edward Norton? He's old enough for it, and he excels at deep creepy complex messed-up roles. I can even see him in it. Can I see Jackson? No. Looks like I may be boycotting the Poe film even though I like the man's work because Mr. Thriller's the star. :(

Jackal: Sound the trumpets and release the kitties of Heck! Thou hast returned!! <dances around, singing the Happy Happy Joy Joy song> Welcome back, man. Place wasn't the same without you. Hope you stick around. :) Now if only the other absent friends would also come back...

Kyryn: Glad Okami's grandmother is feeling better. It's always nice when you know your prayers have paid off.

GXB: I'll be waiting for that feedback. :) Hope it soon comes. (Pistoff, thanks again for yours.)

Green Baron: <I'm glad you're not staying.> Was the word not a typo here? Sorry to disappoint you if it wasn't (and ashamed I ever called you friend <jk>).

Jenna: Congrats on the new apartment. Hope you and Mike enjoy life in the place (you should, especially since no burglar except the very best or the very stupid will dare to rob it due to what's across the street :). And your dream car is Christine, eh? Interesting choice. I'd go for a black convertible version of Knight Rider's KITT myself, one that could transform into a Humvee, a minisub, and a helicopter. <grin>

**AND NOW, SPOILER-FILLED REVIEWS FOR SOME WEEKEND MOVIES**

Pokemon: Saw it yesterday, it was about what I expected and yet so much more. :) Pikachu's Vacation was dumb, but also suprisingly funny. Watching it made me think of Looney Tunes, Pokemon style. :) Mewtwo Strikes Back was a lot better of course, since it worked for the intelligent side of the Pokemon fad where the Vacation worked for the comic one. Mewtwo made a very interesting and neato antagonist, I enjoyed seeing him in action. The other characters were also good and entertaining, as was the plot. The ending I didn't like, not because of the prejudice-damning bits (which I enjoyed seeing), but because of the way Mewtwo erased everyone's minds to make them forget about him. Didn't the guy develop a heart? :( <sighs> It always saddens me when characters get to have an amazing experience of some sort in a film and don't get to remember it, I hated the deal with that in MIB too. <shakes head> Can't stop these instances, I guess. Hope the trend ends soon. Anyway, Pokemon gets 8/10, thumbs up.

Also saw Dogma tonight. Enjoyed it too, despite the fact that I went in expecting a bad movie (thanks a lot, local critics, it was due to your bad reviews that I felt this way!). And yes, it was bad in some ways. The sex jokes were too great in number, Jay was not an interesting character, Silent Bob added almost nada to the plot, Chris Rock did some terrible acting, the scripting was formulaic, God required some suspension of disbelief (except when Metatron explained him/her to us, that made things a little more decent), Azrael and his demon pals were more boring than enjoyable, and those were just the bits I can remember now. Nevertheless I found the movie a masterpiece of comic satire against the Church. Maybe the critics didn't, but then they're critics, they have higher standards than I do. :) Good points of it included Alan Rickman's dynamite preformance as Metatron (looking forward even more now to having him do Madoc in upcoming fics), Linda Fiorentino's acting (she did a pretty good job in her role, I thought, despite the fact that it didn't get as much attention from the audience as Rufus and Jay); and somewhat interesting film premise. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck also turned in wonderful preformances as the fallen angels, I never expected them to make such good villains. Maybe in my fanfics they could do the voices of black dragons Varg and Wave. :) Anyway, Dogma was good, but it still had so many faults I only give it a 6.9/10, thumb sideways. Chasing Amy was a lot better. Better luck with the critics next time, Smith, keep up your good work.

**END WEEKEND MOVIE SPOILERS AND REVIEWS**

Character Death: Yep, I hate writing it too. Even when I know a character has to die, I often get to like them and then... :) As mentioned above, Silvan was an example of this. Another one that had to happen (and one I feel a little good as well as bad about due to the fact that the character in question was going nowhere) will show up in the next fic.

<smiles once more> Rebecca Romjin-Stamos was on Conan again tonight, always entertaining to watch their banter. <"I will have my revenge on _Stamos_!"> Hope you all saw it, they had a pretty good conversation about her role in the upcoming X-Men (I still think she should be the White Queen and not Mystique, since she looks that part more, but hey, what can a guy do?). On that note, I'll be going now. See y'all again soon sometime. <waves>

**MORE RP**

In Los Angeles, the Batmobile and Dirty Laundry Gang's truck come to a stop in a run-down area of Beverly Hills after eluding the police on the highway. "Before we go to your hotel, Detergent," Asil says, "Storm Eagle and I need to find ourselves a more low-profile vehicle." She looks around and spots a gleaming blue Lexus parked outside a strip club. "That will do." "Hope it has gas," Storm Eagle says as they park, hopping out and running over to the vehicle. She starts it with a spell and then Asil hops in beside her. As they are closing the doors and pulling out, a tall black man runs from the sidewalk to address them. "Hey!" he shouts. "Haven't seen you people around here before! Welcome to Hollywood!" "Uh, thank you?" Storm Eagle raises an eyebrow, looking at the frowning Asil. "No problem!" the man replies. "Now tell me, everyone who comes to Hollywood's got a dream. What's your dream?" "We have our dream," Al Detergent says. "A new job, finally." "Good dream, mister. Anyone else have a dream?" "I do," Bleach Man declares. "My dream is to get busy with either Jennifer Love Hewitt, or one of those honies over there." He points at Storm Eagle and Asil who vent angry sighs. "We don't need to talk to this human!" Asil snaps just as some of the other DLG members are about to reveal their dreams. "Let's get on with our business!" "Wait!" the man begs her. "At least tell me your dream!" Asil grimaces, then chuckles. "My dream is simple," she says. "I want to kill my weakling original and her stupid pigheaded boyfriend, then go on a shooting spree around the world taking out everyone who I think doesn't deserve to live." She smiles as Storm Eagle looks shocked, then motions her partner to head on down the street ahead of them. The mage nods and drives off, leaving the now-vacant Batmobile behind. The Dirty Laundry Gang speedily follows her. "Damn," the strange man shakes his head as he watches them leave, "that's some messed-up dream."

**END LATEST INSTALLMENT IN RP**
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 01:47:11 AM
IP: pool-207-205-149-168.dlls.grid.net

<sigh> What is it wi th me and double posts?!!?

Misery and writing: I think "Misery" was one of the greatest books for insight into the mind of a writer while they're writing. Stephen King had some of the best descriptions of the head of a writer that I've ever come across--stuff like "falling ito the hole in the paper" and the idea that writing is masturbatory (but god forbid it should be auto-canibalism!) 'Tis rather..."oogy," as SJ put it (and as I'm sure Annie Wilkes would have as well), but I think all us writers can admit, it's kinda true... And there's always that writing is a release--I've always said that it's the safe place for me to let all my little inner demons come out and play for a while...

jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 01:36:51 AM
IP: spider-we042.proxy.aol.com

Well, I just saw "The Blair Witch Project." I was bored to tears through the whole thing, until the very end. Then I got creeped out. Of course, the video immediately *undid* all of that, with the "recently discovered footage" garbage at the end... But I think if I'd seen it in the theatres, Id have spent the first 99% of the movie wanting my money back, and then left the theatre going "Um, I think I'm sleeping with the light on tonight...."
jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 01:28:49 AM
IP: spider-we042.proxy.aol.com

Sorry, just remembered something. Has anyone seen this Cartalk site? Has a feature called Car-O-Scopes that is supposed to tell you if you are compatable with your car. Apparently my Cutlass Ciera and I couldn't be more wrong for each other. *g* Check it out. Good for a laugh.
Jessie Feff - [<--Car-O-Scopes]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 01:18:11 AM
IP: ctrts1-6.mrs.umn.edu

Whoo-hoo! I just got back from RUN, LOLA, RUN. See it if you have the chance...I still can't believe it came to my dinky little college town's one screen theatre. Must...resist temptation...to dye hair...electric red... *Phew* Okay, Lola's my new hero. :)

Jericho > I dunno. I don't have the crush thing on him, as some seem to, but I think he's an interesting character. He could have been one-dimensional evil, sleep-with-his-mother type, but Christine is an awesome writer, so I really like to read about him and try to get into his head. What motivates him, that sort of thing. Also, I guess the incest doesn't gross me out as much as it might, because of its circumstances. True, Jericho _did_ find out Demona was his mother before he bedded her, but all the barriers aren't there. She didn't raise him; he never developed those sort of "mother/son" feelings that would make it totally wrong in my book. I'm not saying its all right the way it is, but it is _less_ wrong...Imagine you were raised by someone you knew was not your real mother. You would most likely still view her as such. Then imagine a woman shows up at your door; a beautiful woman that you can't help but desire, and tells you _she_ is your mother. Most people would be grossed out, but really, the initial desire you felt will be a lingering presense. I'm not saying it would continue, because probably in most people it _wouldn't_, but the truth is it was an intial reaction, and those tend to make lasting impressions. Jericho did _try_ to resist for a time, but Demona kept with her subtle manipulations and his feelings persisted.

*shrug* I basically find the whole storyline pretty fascinating, but logically it _does_ have to come to some sort of an end (apparently, according to Christine, a bad one, which only figures...) Er...has anyone seen LONE STAR? The situation reminds me of that wonderful movie, sorta. If you've seen in you know what I mean.

Okay, dang...rambled enough on that subject. And now I've forgotten whatever else I had to say.

Well, I may have missed a November birthday or two since I've been here last, so if you had one, "Happy Birthday!"
Jessie Feff - [feff@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 01:12:00 AM
IP: ctrts1-6.mrs.umn.edu

***BEGIN RP***
Miriam turned to Wilek. "Do you really think it is wise to let Sevarius remain here in the medical ward instead of in a prison cell?"
Wilek thought on this for a moment. "You have a point...but for once, I think he deserves this time to be with his son. He can face whatever punishment he deserves after SJ gets a little better. Until then, I think we should allow him to remain by his bedside." He paused. "Better post a few guards outside the room, though. Just to play it safe.
***END RP***

First off, I want to extend some prayers and well wishes to Mr. Ray Bradbury. He's one of the undeniable heavies in the field of science fiction, and one of the best authors of this century if you ask me. Unfortunately, Mr. Bradbury recently suffered a stroke. While there is some partial paralysis on one side of his body, doctors do expect a full recovery. I just hope that the recovery is quick and easy.

Knowing Characters are gonna die: I remember reading in Stephen King's "Misery" how the narrator, a writer, remarks that writing is something akin to masturbation. That's a rather ooogy analogy, true, but true in some regards. As writers, we are not bound by the laws of physics, gravity, hell, not even reality. We are the gods of our own little universes, and as such it is within our power to do what we wish with their inhabitants. I myself, even though I am a colossaly slow writer, have created several characters that I just plan to martyr. It's fun, and intriguing, and can get real interesting, especially when you grow to attached to them. Personally, I try my best to become attached to the ones that are going to die; that way, I'll hopefully write them out of existence with loving care. Plus it helps me keep things in perspective, so as to not get too static. Sometimes its better to let the characters die instead of stagnating while alive.

Jericho into B & D: And this is supposed to be appealing? I don't know, I may be a little repressed here, but the whole domination thing never did anything for me. I guess Jericho gets his jollies from it. He must be something of a masochist, if you ask me, but his continued devotion to Demona also proves some of those dark, naughty little theories I've had about her...;)

Living near cops: You shouldn't feel apprehensive about it, unless you have something to hide. Naturally, as simple logic would tell you, crime rates are generally lower in those residential areas where police live. The whole notion of "community policing" and all that. That's a pretty good advantage, especially if you had previously lived in a high crime area.

The Nazis: I don't wish to open this can of worms again, and Kaioto and Galvatron had some good points, but I don't think it's fair to compare the Jews and Nazis in terms of discrimination against the groups. One group is a group because of birth (or in the rarer cases, in dealing with the religion, through conversion), and the other group is a group out of choice. (Yes, I am aware of the fact that this argument could be used to justify discrimination against, say, homosexuals, who choose their lifestyle). Jews can't help being Jewish, but Nazis can choose not to live their particular lifestyles. Yes, sharing a common hatred of one group of people is what started the Holocaust, but I think you're dealing with a different deck of cards altogether in a hatred for the Nazis. The hatred for them stems not from them being part of a particular race, but from the fact that they were responsible for the death of millions of people just cause they felt they were superior.
While I suppose under the free speech amendment the Nazis have an equal right to profess their views as anyone else, I have never seen a Nazi, Neo or otherwise, profess anything other than a doctrine of hate and intolerance. And as far as those individuals in the Nazi empire who may have joined the party, not because they believed in the cause, but because they did not wish to die or become political prisoners....I am sorry, but forgive me if I have little to no sympathy for them. At best they are cowards, but the way I see it, the bottom line is that those people were just trying to save their own ass. I can understand their point of view, but I don't exactly think highly of individuals who join a group that was systematically exterminating an entire RACE of people just to save their own skins. If they get lumped together with the truly "evil" Nazis because of that, I'm sorry, but you know the old saying, "if you lay down with dogs..." It's easy for me to take a "holier-than-thou" moral highground on this one, but that's how I feel.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Saturday, November 13, 1999 12:34:53 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Jaden: Hit: Lets see... one time, the other car was only going about 5mph and I tried to put my hand out, and the car hit my hand and I hurt my wrist. (Damn school plays.)
The second time that I remember was when I was riding a bike, and I KNEW this guy was going to run the red light, so I turned my bike paralell, so I just got rearended. (He was going about 35-45). I got accelerated VERY fast, but no damage to me or the bike (BUT I was all shaken up for the next few hours. Literally. I have been told that was shock.)
I seem to remember at least ONE more time, but I can't remember it right now...

Toku Kaioto: Paperclips: Yes, good old paperclips. If I were ever trapped on a deserted island and I could have any 2 items (besides any communications equiptment), it would be paperclips and duct tape. Given those and a wooded island, anything is possible.

Christine: <I wonder why?>
Well, I think most people realized that a bad Jericho is a good Jericho.

Stormy: Poppy: Yeah, thats done here in the states, except we usually give a little donation for a cheap little plastic one from vertrans asking for donations while standing in the middle of the intersection.

shogun raptor: Coldstone Vs. "Stone Cold"? Hmm... Whelp, could you send it my way?
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Friday, November 12, 1999 10:23:35 PM
IP: t2-30.visitus.net

I'm still not caught up on everything, RL has been especially hectic today...but I just have to chime in for a moment.

Jewel: Um, sorry, but I gotta disagree. :) There's absolutely _NOTHING_ sexy or appealing about a character who copulates with his own mother. Sorry to sound like a broken record with this, but it's just one of those things that I can't let go....

Uggh, still got more catching up to do...real post later, I hope...
Pistoff - [phred@koalas.com]
Friday, November 12, 1999 10:16:08 PM
IP: wire-14.koalas.com

*returns, with her SD creativity demons. SD Demmie-chan is smiling deviantly with some unknown plan to take over the world, becuase she has chewing gum. It's hard to tell which. SD Angie-chan and SD Xelloss-kun are fighting, as usual.*

Behave children...

*the trio of chibis sulk in the background*

"We've fallen into... (dramatic pause) The Morganverse." (reverb) "verse
verse verse verse."
"Could be worse. We coulda ended up in the Watsonverse."

EH... if you can stand yaoi sex scenes and combat trousers, it's not that bad a place to be.

*SD pets blanch and shake their heads wildly, she blatantly ignores their denials and gives them cherry cheese-cake in an effore to quiet them. SD Xelloss-kun, OFCOURSE asks for tea. Sigh.. and you thought your creativity demons were annoying*

InZane:

my computer i have decided to name Lazurus, and with all teh files i have in it, i'm just glad it came back from the dead. i feel like a child at christmas.

by teh way... i have one of your stories on my hard-drive..you didnt happen to suggest a MiSTIng for yourself, did you? My short-term memory is nil...

*SD Demmie-chan* Which, ofcourse, is my fault, since everything is MY fault... The Mets not making it to teh World Series was MY fault... The fact Xelloss-kun is a fruitckae is MY fault...

Eh... ignore her, she's stil recovering from WEEDS.

by the way, if you cant read the last to parts of that just highlight it... i dont know why it happened

*SD Demmie-chan* it was my fault, didn't you know that?

*sweatdrop* I... better go before the other two start up...

*Walks off into the sunrise (hows that for cliche?) with her SD pets in tow, SD xelloss-kun complaining that he never got his tea. The cherry cheese-cake, however is left for all those who want a piece*
Mara Cordova - [MCordova999@hotmail.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Friday, November 12, 1999 09:00:40 PM
IP: spider-we041.proxy.aol.com

Predestined character deaths: **sigh** I fit into this category.
**SPOILERS FOR MY CYCLE AHEAD, AVERT YOUR EYES IF YOU HAVEN'T READ ANY OF MY STORIES AND DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!**
I know that I've received a lot of feedback regarding "Team Charlie," insomuch as they regard Samson's death. And I must confess that Samson was predestined in my cycle to die.
If it hadn't been as it was performed (all the spells over him being broken at once, causing him to age too rapidly), he would have eventually succumbed to the mutation that was implanted into him. The only thing I had no control over with him was which side he would die on ... as it was seen, while he had been turned to the Rokkans, he died, for all intents and purposes, as part of the Earth Resistance, in Ariana's arms, having had his one and only glimpse at his son. It was a fittingly tragic, and at the same time hopeful, end to him ... tragic that he should never know his son longer than a few minutes ... but hopeful in that his son *did* know his father, *plus* Solomon's inheritance of Samson's mutation has been controlled by fae interference.
**END SPOILERS, YOU CAN LOOK NOW!!**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Friday, November 12, 1999 08:38:24 PM
IP: zzz-209252248212.splitrock.net

Knowing when characters are going to die-- some times I know, sometimes the character totally takes me by surprise. They seem to really have a life of there own, some times..
jenna
Friday, November 12, 1999 08:25:08 PM
IP: ppp-216-62-143-192.dialup.hstntx.swbell.net

Character fate: Sometimes, you just *know* a character's going to die, as soon as you create them. And that's always hard when you start to *like* them... For example, I like my character Kamiko a whole lot...and I *have* to kill her off. Ditto with another character popping up in my very last story. I'm creating them, they're kinda cool, and *boom*, I have to kill them off. And there's one character I really like, abnd I know he's gotta die, too. (Although, I gotta admit, I am currently pulling a Paul Sheldon (Misery) pre-Annie Wilkes, and am all but jumping for joy about killing off *some* characters...)

Sadistic pleasure in torturing characters: Yeah, there's always this, to. It's *fun* to twist the psychological screws; to see how far you can go, and how much you can do, to a character before they crack and shatter to bits. The more I like a character, the more I torment them. hee hee hee...

Jericho: Well, I only read one or two stories with him (nothing against your writing, Christine--it's just when I try, I'm usually blushing so hard I feel like my face is gonna explode...although one would never guess this from the rest of my post), but I think I understand the appeal of him--partially, it is the fact that he is dominated by Demona. But it is by choice, and in so being, it gives him control. He allows himself to be dominated, but he is always masculine, even masculine to a heightened degree. He's dark, he's sexy, he's the kind of guy our parents always warned us about. He's sexual, he knows it, and he's not afraid to use that power--in fact, he draws on it, just as he draws on being masculine. Wrap that core around the dominated aspect--the willing bottom, but still in control, as anyone in B&D will tell you is the case (the top only seems to have control; all control is actually held through the bottom)--and you have a character who is incredibly appealing.

jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Friday, November 12, 1999 07:58:41 PM
IP: 98a9932b.ipt.aol.com

Aaron> say, I'd like to see that list, maybe characters I know are on it
shogun raptor - [shogun_raptor@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 12, 1999 06:20:55 PM
IP: user-38ldckl.dialup.mindspring.com

speaking of fanfics and bloodshed, If anyone wants one, I'll send a copy of "oooh that's GOTTA hurt" to 'em, it's a gargs/CDM crossover, Coldstone Vs. "stone cold" steve austin, Jackal & Hyena Vs. Hugh and 7 of 9 and the main event, the high king of the Fey takes on the dark lord of the sith as Oberon Vs. Darth Vader
shogun raptor - [shogun_raptor@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 12, 1999 06:15:00 PM
IP: user-38ldckl.dialup.mindspring.com

Good afternoon everyone, here's a few more groaners:
> Burglarize \bur'-gler-ize\:
> What a crook sees with.
> Control \kon-trol'\:
> A short, ugly inmate.
> Counterfeiters \kown-ter-fit-ers\:
> Workers who put together kitchen cabinets.
> Eclipse \i-klips'\:
> what an English barber does for a living.
> Eyedropper \i'-drop-ur\:
> a clumsy ophthalmologist.
> Heroes \hee'-rhos\:
> what a guy in a boat does.
catch ya'll next time- have a great weekend
Delphi - [cmiller@magiclink.com]
Twin Falls, Idaho
Friday, November 12, 1999 06:13:49 PM
IP: twin5933.magiclink.com

The Poppy Thing... Yes, we in the States celebrate on November 11th too. The holiday is Veteran's Day. It used to be Armistice Day, because it was created on the one year anniversery of the end of WWI, but then we had WW2 and Korea and Viet Nam and so on.

The wearing of the poppy comes from the following poem which I meant to post yesterday: In Flanders Field by John McCrae
McCrae was a soldier during WWI.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard among the guns below

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If you break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
kathy
Friday, November 12, 1999 06:05:13 PM
IP: mail.avon.com

Aaron-- <my dream car is Christine> hmmm.. never thought about it that way :P *LOL*

Regarding Jerico or Thailog, yeah, I guess both of us are biased towards our fav female character but that's okay. :)
jenna
Friday, November 12, 1999 06:00:09 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Jericho > Ironically, I think the gargoyle gets a weird power trip from submitting so completely to Demona. Maybe it's a bondage thing. As for Jericho being a victim... I sure don't see him *suffering* very much!

As for how/when/if he's going to die, I'm venturing that it will be Demona's doing. Whether it's on purpose or not...

Demona treasures the *power* she has over him. As I mentioned, I think Jericho is feeling mighty powerful himself. In "Breeding Season," he almost betrayed her. There might be some contest of supremacy between them, of which the mortal one will be a casualty.

On the other hand, Christine has a way of pulling a fast one on us. I'm sure the more we make suggestions, the more Christine will deviate from them. Writers do that, sometimes.

Scott Iskow - [smiskow@wam.umd.edu]
Friday, November 12, 1999 05:44:04 PM
IP: 129-2-251-16.student.umd.edu

Jenna> Got your em. So your dream car is Christine, huh?

Later.


Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Friday, November 12, 1999 05:39:23 PM
IP: ppp-91.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

Well, I saw the Pokemon movie, but I'm not gonna do a full review, since I'm sure someone else will, and I didn't love it or hate it enough to make the effort.

I will say that it had some moments, mostly near the beginning, but it got boring and preachy toward the end.

I couldn't decide whether Mewtwo reminded me more of Thailog or Ventura.

Jenna> Congrats on the appartment. The reason I dislike Jerico less then Thailog is that Jerico does seem to genuinely love Demmie, albeit in a twisted way, whereas Thailog was just using her from the minute they met. But then, we all know I'm biased on this stuff. :)

Shogun><Picking evil over good> Hell yeah! 's funny you should bring this up, because this month InQuest is running the top ten (fictional) women in gaming contest. My brother showed it to me and asked me to pick my fave. I didn't particularly like any of them until, on the last page, is a pic of Sonja Blue with her straight razor. I had my pick. My brother gives me his patented "you are such a freak" look and says "How did I know you'd say that?"

That is, of course, based strictly on asthetics. Judging by that book I read, I find Sonja to be a bit of an ungrateful b!tch in practice. *I'd* like to be a vampire, and she uses her vamp powers to kill any other vamps she can find. I'd love to see a cross over where she comes after Jean-Claude and has to fight Anita Blake.

But I digress...

Taleweaver> Oh yeah. All the time. In fact, since I know (sort of) what happens in advance, I get to pull a Roz Gibson when they pester me to write faster and say "Trust me, if you knew what happens to you, you wouldn't be so eager for me to right those fics."

Warpmind> Thanks a lot. You cut off a whole string of "Offers to fill the void" jokes.

Really bizarre fic idea, partially inspired by Vatana: A group of characters, and/or fans get picked up by a mysterious force and sent bombing, Sliders-like, through the wild and wcky world of gargoyles fan fic. Excerpt:

"Guys, I have a really bad feeling about this one." Spots something.

"We've fallen into... (dramatic pause) The Morganverse." (reverb) "verse verse verse verse."

"Could be worse. We coulda ended up in the Watsonverse."

Later.


Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Friday, November 12, 1999 05:06:41 PM
IP: ppp-91.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

WARPMIND: Re: The Poppy Thing

I'm honestly unsure if this is done in the States...can someone enlighten me?

But in Canada, November 11 is Remembrance Day when we honour those individuals who gave their lives in wars (WWI, WWII, Korea) as well as the various peacekeeping operations, and also those who served our country and survived. This is not a glorification of war but a reminder of the horrific cost of war and the need to work for peace.

Most Canadians wear plastic poppy flowers as a symbol of this remembrance. The red colour symbolizes blood and sacrifice, and the actual flower cut open, I believe, looks like a Cross. The poppy grows natively on the land in Europe that used to be the Battlefields of WWI.

Magic=Satanism Three points here:

1. RPG's--there is a big difference between playing/reading/imagining/acting and actually DOING. If RPG spellcasting is devil worship, then by the same logic, playing a killer in a theatre production is the same as actually having killed someone :-P

2. From my study of religions, there's not much difference between what Wiccans call "magick" and what Christians call "prayer", save for the gods addressed. In fact, I've found the terms "prayer magick", "rosary magick," "angel magick," etc.

3. Not an insult to Catholics, just an observation. Feel free to discuss with me on this. Whit (The Catholic) and I were having a discussion one night about religion and he quoted to me from one of his books about how Catholicism prohibits the use of charms. I start giggling, "this from the guy with the St. Christopher's Medal on his suitcase" (it's for safe travel, as St. Chris is the patron saint of travellers) EVEN THOUGH...heh heh...the Church now disavows St. Christopher because they have no concrete proof that he actually existed, and suspect that he is a folklore construct or possible transformation of a Pagan figure into a saint. Long, amusing, and civil debate on whether the St. Christopher's medal was a charm or not. He said, "It's a holy artifact." me: "in other words, a charm." :-) I recall all the Catholic pilots on glider training getting and wearing St. Christopher necklaces from the priest. It seems they nominated St. Chris as the patron saint of CRGS (Central REgion Gliding School) as well. I also remember how we all wanted to be Catholics so we could get one too ;-)

Jenna: Congratulations on the new place. Glad to hear you're getting to a safer neighbourhood. :-)

Gargoyle Inbreeding: In Greg's version, gargoyles usually only lay one egg at a time, therefore, if a gargoyle is mating with another of his/her own rookery generation, the odds of them being brother/sister are zilch except for the rare case of twins. In Christine's world where gargoyles have several eggs at a time, the odds are of course higher. And that's one of the things about fan fic--being able to re-create on your own rules.
Stormy
Friday, November 12, 1999 04:36:01 PM
IP: dynixpc2.huron.uwo.ca

Hi, guys... server trouble, but it seems somewhat stable now.

Christine: No prob... received those MiSTings yet? Still unreliable mail server here...

Jenna: Now, technically, one cannot say that Jericho wears pants, no matter the family. :)

Taleweaver: You get the feeling that the characters speak up for themselves, too? I have this weird situation myself... Manxine keeps arguing about why I haven't let her tumble Lexington yet... I'll get around to it, but not yet... I like to hear her suggestions... ;)

Mara: Oooo, new MiSTing? Goodie. That'll give me a few laughs while I move my furniture and my computer. Which, by the sound of it, seems much similar to yours. I call it Ahasverus nowadays... it's ancient, but it still works, as long as I don't put the cover on, in which case the darn thing shorts out... but it works... Six years and counting... *Moans and whines about wanting and needing a better computer.*

Well, check back later, everyone.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, November 12, 1999 02:10:50 PM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

Character's destiny> Unfortunately I'm a slow writer and reader, so I don't know enough to get in on this discussion though I do have a question. Characters I write have a habit of jumping off the page. (Some even decide to move in, but that's another story) Does anyone else find themselves having to explain a characters death to them. I remember one original I was writing and quite suddenly one of the characters was killed off. In half a blink I found myself trying to explain to said character why they needed to die. It's weird I konw. Most folks wouldn't last 5 minutes in my world, but I just wonder if this happens to anyone else.
taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Friday, November 12, 1999 01:52:28 PM
IP: wwweic.engineering.csupomona.edu

Jenna>
Your insight is a contribution to the discussion, another perspective that adds to things for everyone. You ~ shouldn't ~ have to be fearful of voicing your opinion in here, just of having it argued against.

You ~ shouldn't ~ have to worry about getting flamed in here. Robby made it very clear that there are no flames of denizens allowed in here. People may disagree with you, and counter your argument, but they aren't allowed to go after you personally in the process of doing it ...

At least, that's the rule/ideal ...

Back to work with me ... boy do I slackwhen everyone else is one lunch-break ...
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, November 12, 1999 01:44:47 PM
IP: 141.133.116.103

One final thing about Jerico- if this offends anyone, sorry.

He is a very weak male. And I think in a very real way, this is part of his appeal to some.

Think of the relationship that governs his life- in that realtionship he is not on equal footing. Demona is in charge. Always in charge. I think part of the appeal of this is that some women like to see men in more submissive roles, and in a way, to be a sex object. It strikes me as a reverse of what has been the standard for so long in gender relations. It is an issue of power in the genders. It seems to a rejection of the traditional role women have played, and an embracing of the other.

I think that is another reason I don't like Jerico. I know it is old fashioned, ect, ect, but I can't really respect a guy that doens't wear the pants in the family.

Boy hope I don't get flamed over this..


jenna
Friday, November 12, 1999 01:14:00 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

The Jericho Debate.

My $.02

I personally love this story-line, it's one of the few fanfic arcs (from any fanfic series) that I read religiously. I like dark, vile, evil characters. And Jericho is all three of those things and more. I also really like Demona, as a character, AND as a villain. And I have yet to see her more villainous than as Christine writes her.

Now, is Jericho a victim? Yes, and no. He could have turned away from her at any time. He didn't. He has commited murder, when he was brought up by the same people who raised Angela and Gabriel. Demona cares only about controlling him (or she did at first, now I'm not so sure). And she's doing a good job at it... most of the time. Then again he did try to mate with Angela.

There are times when I'm not really sure about his character, and that's one of the reasons why I enjoy this story-line. One thing I am sure of, is that Jericho is a truly evil villain. And I like EVIL. My psychiatrist told me I'm evil. Okay that last sentence was a lie.

Each of us is entitled to his or her own opinion. And as for him dying, I'm looking forward to that to. Not becase I hate the character, but story-wise it's going to be great. I eagerly await the next chapter in the Jericho/Demona arc. When can we expect it Christine?

I would be so lucky to create such a controversal character.

And though this is well known, I feel the same way about Demona that the charter members of the Jericho Fan Club feel about Jericho. SHE IS HOT!!!
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 12, 1999 01:03:56 PM
IP: spider-we062.proxy.aol.com

*appears, in her gargoyle form, holding a long leash, and pulling along her SD Angie-chan, SD Demmie-chan and SD Xelloss-kun creativity demons*

Hi folks, just letting you know that there is one more MISt added to the archive, AND that although my computer died, through a mix of science, sorcery and kicking thedamn thing, it was resurrected.

(a la Xanatos from Future Tense) rejoice my people...

That will be all... for now.

*walks off, SD Demmie-chan picking Everyone's pockets in search of a SD Jericho*

Mara Cordova - [MCordova999@hotmail.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Friday, November 12, 1999 01:02:19 PM
IP: hien-tran.dynamic.fitsuny.edu

Warpmind > oops, sorry about the pun mix-up!

Wilek > re: Dr. Ngyuen -- that was the name I had for Renard's doc long before the whole sociology thing, actually; I hadn't given it another thought. It was in, I think, "Romances" that he was first mentioned.

Jericho's destiny > poor guy was doomed from even before I discovered him ... in 2030-something, Demona's supposed to have finally made a great sea-change in her life. Having lost _everything_. That's ultimately what brings her together with MacBeth ("Ever After"). Trouble is, at the time I wrote it, I didn't know about Jericho ... but still, that _everything_ has to apply to him, too. He's been slated for death ever since before he first turned up. And no, I don't need volunteers or suggestions. No, he will _not_ die out of some noble change-of-heart ... some baddies are just plain irredeemable (I used to get a lot of letters asking/suggesting he go noble; it just wasn't gonna happen; those letters tapered off after a while; I wonder why? <g>).
There's little that could be said about Jericho that would offend me. He _is_ a spoiled brat, he _is_ pretty much everything that everyone says he is. I don't have a big personal stake tied up in him. He's INSANE, an utter psycho, sociopathic, a master of self-delusion and rationalization (in his mind, going after Angela did make sense to him, just as saving Elisa from Castaway made sense to him).

What matters most to me is that he sure isn't boring ... he generates an emotional response in just about everyone. Love him or hate him, I've met very few who are indifferent.

And as I am an emotional vampire, that's just the way I like it ... ; )

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Friday, November 12, 1999 12:57:22 PM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net

Warpmind + Jenna>> Congratulations on the new housing.

Galvatron>> A very good point indeed. Sounds like a compare and contrast essay for Ethics class, or just a really good topic for multiple points of view to consider.

**Pointless Philosophizing**

Sometimes we forget how dangerous our petty grudges and hatreds are, and how easily they crop up in our behavior. I've done that a lot, with a loathing for people I've never met, rather than their actions or ideals. Sure, I despise what they stood for, but I never truly knew all of them, and yet I judge them all just to make starting a conversation easier to start. It is lazy thinking, and dangerous as you say.

The last time a large number of people stood around saying, "How about them Jews?" to start a social action or group on common ground, we got the Nazi party. Sure, we say the Nazi's are evil, and yes, that which they stood for and did ~ is ~ evil, but that should warn us to turn a wary eye even further from taking those first steps of dehumanization that they took.

But isn't "I hate Nazi's" so much easier than, "You know, the Holocaust was really a horrible thing to do to people," when starting up a conversation? Well, one is a stereotype and a character judgment of a large group of people, some of whom were merely forcibly enrolled due to where they lived. Oscar Schindler, I do believe, eventually joined the Nazi party to keep his factory open. When we say, "I hate Nazi's" we basically lump everyone who wasn't willing to be killed or interned as a political prisoner in the Nazi empire into our hate category. Hate is a dangerous thing, and so is lazy thinking.

It is a pity it is so deeply rooted in our social nature to act on both so darn often. I've had my share of regrets because of it.

I would also note, however, that the Nazi's are pretty much dead as an empire and a group, and the only people joining them now are usually acting in a racist manner. We really aren't hurting the feelings of many innocent people, nor are we finding a group and planning on rounding them up and killing them off. Sometimes we are just hating a point in human history that stains and shames us as the Human Race, and vowing never to act like that again. Without a healthy does of aversion and distaste for the Nazi's, we may slowly begin to consider Nazism "not a big deal."

Well, it is a big deal. It is something we can't risk forgetting. Even now we have people who pretend the Holocaust never even happened. The prospect of losing our disdain is rather scary in itself.

We could be in a big, nasty gray fog, walking on the razor's edge with a slippery slope on either side … or simply over analyzing what we do. It is certainly a riddle worth reflecting on. There are consequences and dangers to falling too far in either direction.

Then again, perhaps I'm just skeptical about any ice-breaker as I'm kind'a poor at starting conversations. :)

Just my pair of pennies to throw in to reflect on something we often dismiss out of hand.

**End pointless Philosophizing**

You know, it never ceases to amaze me how a $6,000 photocopier can be crippled by a $0.0001 staple. It also fascinates me how the situation can be remedied with a paperclip.

Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, November 12, 1999 12:29:06 PM
IP: 141.133.121.148

Warp- I know I complain about the cops, but I'd rather be nearer to it that not- I'ts pretty nice, it's in suburbia. But the biggest plus about being across a police station, is that the past two places Mike and I have lived were crawling with felons. And I'm not talking about the traffic, copyright type. I'm talking about rapists and murder types. I mean, we had looting here just this week after the fire. Weve lived across from several people who were fresh out of jail and on parol. One guy broke it, and dissappeared. I always felt worried about my safty, and I didn't want to be alone, or out at night by myself. I actually had one guy try to sneak up on me, that was scary. Nothing happened, I was saved by luck- or someone else was protecting me. To me a place with a lot of cops is a plus- I know no place is 100 percent safe, but at least it's a little safer than where we have been.
jenna
Friday, November 12, 1999 11:27:00 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Okay, checking in now, might be able later tonight, as well...

Spike: Thanks. I appreciate the second round. Now, if this Battle of the Bands (which I can vividly imagine, mind you) is already written... WHERE IS IT? *Eager panting, followed by loud, squeaky barking.*

Jenna: Thanks, and congrats. Y'know, I might feel slightly concerned if I lived across the street from a police station... I happen to usually break a law or three by lunchtime... mostly minor copyright violations and stuff, but still... and I'm expecting a concealed weapon by mail soon... I just hope it won't be stopped at the post orifice or in customs... On the bright side, you have an excellent stake-out position...

Well, no more replies to make right now, so I might (if I'm lucky) check back later.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, November 12, 1999 11:12:36 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

Warp - your apt sounds great (neighbor :)

Our new location- well, the best thing- It's going to be right across from a police station, it's clean, and in a nice location- and the rent will be cheaper believe it or not-- well lose some footage, but we can manage. And well have a bigger balcony, nice kept up facilities, and alot closer to work. ^_^
jenna
Friday, November 12, 1999 10:56:41 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Well We just got some more good news- My brother-in-law is going to be in his own place by the end of Dec. I am relieved, because it will be a lot of pressure off me financially and Mike and I will have our privacy again. ^_^
jenna
Friday, November 12, 1999 10:50:19 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Warpmind>> Here's where you can find Cyrway's GCD fanfic series, more entries hopefully to come. I opened my mouth and volunteered to do one more when the orginal writer dropped the ball -- "The Battle of The Bands." Spike and the Great Afterlife Band meet the Spice Girls. *evil cackle*

*clears throat and looks about innocently* What? That didn't come from me, no.....

The whole Jericho silliness>> I could care less. The whole incestuous relationship does trouble me on some moral levels but I have to remind myself that this is not a human species we're dealing with and that they no doubt have different cultural values. Jericho does make a good baddie and I liked him best in "Club Gung Ho" where he was largely away from Demona.

As to killing him off --- *laughs* I've never liked Goliath or Demona, so I could probably very cheerfully kill Jericho off with a smile of my face. I'm just odd that way.
Spike - [<===<< GARGOYLES CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH]
Friday, November 12, 1999 09:49:25 AM
IP: pppt06-50.ght.iadfw.net

A strange conversation I once had with an equally strange friend yielded this comment from him: "If you ever want to start up a dialogue with someone you don't know, you can always begin with, 'How about them Nazis?' Because they're so despised, you can use that as a way to find common ground."
It's sad but true--finding a common enemy can bring a group of people to bond in a way that could not happen with any other incentive; yet it is this fact that is probably responsible for the Holocaust happening in the first place.
I don't want to re-ignite a flame war over this, but I was just reflecting on all the comments made here about the Holocaust, and thought this might be a relevant point to meditate on.
Be seeing you...
Galvatron - [tbramfeld@hotmail.com]
Our Lady, IN, USA
Friday, November 12, 1999 05:09:43 AM
IP: bramfeld-1a.student.nd.edu

Sorry about the double post, guys. I just wondered if anyone could direct me to this Gargoyle Celebrity Deathmatch stuff, or was it called the Gargoyles Challenge, or whatever. What I know is that it started with a race between Elisa's Fairlane and some other car, and then there was a greased Brooklyn contest that Spike wrote. But I gotta go.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, November 12, 1999 04:29:54 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

*Warpmind comes running into the CR, clad as a replica of the famous Jogger in Grey.* Hi, guys. I just exercised a few demons.

Hi, y'all. Back again.

Christine: I think you're mixing up names here. I was the one who shared the Tall Tale. Wilek was the one who didn't get it (the lucky bastard). As for whether to be flattered or worried... I'd say a bit of both, actually. If you don't want me to do it, heck, just let me know, but this time, the temptation was just to great for me to pass it up.

Aaron: The Yukon pun was not terminal. It just left its victims severely injured, but with a good recovery prognosis.

CrzyDemona: You are one crazy woman, y'know? What with all this Jericho Fan club stuff? By the way, you have received my application, right? *Looks over at Pistoff and cringes.* Hey, what can I say? He's an intriguing character.

Gunjack Valentine: *Sigh* All right, I'll e-mail you that pun, but you'll have to wait a bit... until I reach a computer on which Netscape functions. I abhor Microsoft Mail, Netscape Composer does at least function without two years of setting it up.

Jenna: Congrats with the apartment. Hope you're as lucky as me. (Look below for more accurate review/description).

Green Baron: I like your comment about Roleplaying. As far as I know, the only RPG that causes insanity is Call of Cthulhu... and that is only causing it in the characters, not the players. (Could be some GREAT jokes there, my friends... how 'bout a bit of kleptophobia?)

Does a kelptomaniac hoard seaweed? (A #Callahans topic of the past)

Housing situation: Been off to give the new place a review. It is slightly smaller (by a couple of square feet), but it has laundry capacity, a spacious bathroom, a conveniently shaped kitchen, and a real sweet-lookin' dame next door. And I mean next door, as in the-door-not-even-a-foot-from-mine. And what I hear, she's not the type to drag in guys every night... but then again, neither em I. ;) Sorry, that one just needed to get out.

Pistoff: I don't really know if Jericho dying is such a good thing. After all, when he goes, that will most likely be the last straw for Demona. After all, when Jericho dies, Demona will most likely have this huge hollow spot inside of her. *Looks at what he just said, then realizes what it _could_ mean.* Um, I _do_ mean emotionally... :)

Marc: You've seen how the gargoyles have glow-in-the-dark eyes, right? They've got excellent night vision.

Stephen: What do you mean, characters on a written page? They're not real? *Gasps, chokes!* ;)

What be this poppy flower business about?

Sevarius Jr.: Demona is one Craaaaazy, psychotic gargoyle, and that is most likely the prime cause... the rest was an unnatural (?) evolution...

Okay, got to go, there are people waiting to use the computer.

Catch y'all later, okay?
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, November 12, 1999 03:49:26 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

****BEGIN RP!!!****
"Yippy, SJ's alive." Jaden says in a not so cheery voice. "He's dead, he's alive, he's dead, he's alive. I wish he'd make up his mind not that it matters much; funeral now, funeral later."
****END RP!!!****

Well I finally got to the top of the comment room. It would seem that every time we have a big flame war type thing the posts get longer and longer. Oh well at least now we can have even longer posts with people making up.

Anne-I have this Body Basics by Homedics, it's a clock/radio/alarm and best of all it has rain, ocean, river, forests and night time sounds. I sleep perfectly when I use it.

Jewel- Groaners-hee hee hoo ha HAHAHA! I think I got my meaning across with that.

Kitainia- <thinking too much about the world recently and that's contributed to a possible emotional burnout> I'm sorry to hear about that. I think I go through some similar to that sometimes. When I think about what's going on in the world or if I just try to life as a whole I sink into this almost emotionless attitude. I wouldn't say I lose all feelings it's rather like everythings 'off' or different like I'm being swallowed. Nothing seems to matter and all of my plans for the future seem impossible. I also have the uncontrollable urge to be alone when I'm like that. I used to think that these moods were just periods of deep reflection, but now it's starting to sound more like depression. I'm glad it's only temperary.

Doug-Glad to see that you're staying. I nearly fell out of my chair when I "heard" that you might be leaving.

Fire Storm- times? As in you've been hit more than once? I guess I should consider myself lucky. I've been through some rough stuff, but never have I been hit by a car.

Well that's all for now.
See ya later!
Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.com]
Los Alamos, CA
Friday, November 12, 1999 03:01:49 AM
IP: cache2.avtel.net

Finally, I'm done with all the nastiness and can go back to my pic... *Valentine looks around, and notices several people that he doesn't recognize*

Dang, I keep forgeting to say this...

WELCOME TO ALL THE NEWCOMERS!!!
Grab a chair! Get comfy! Oops, watch out for the flying bodyparts... Never did like that guy anyway... And don't get in the way of that decked out hearse. But I doubt if that'll be a problem! Good fortune for everyone!

Ooo, and a big 'ole welcome back to Jackel! Where you been, man?

GB>D&D/witchcraft - That burns me up every time I run into it. I remember one time, shortly after I got FFVII, when I was telling one of the guys in my youth group about it. When I got to the summon spells, he just looked at me and said, "You know that's withcraft, right?" I nearly fell over backward. Personally, I was raised on "The Lord of The Rings", so I draw a distinction between magic and devilworshipping; however, an acquaintence of mine believes that the word "magic", in any context or form, is straight from the devil...:(

GB><<Since you mentioend her, how and where is Mera?>> Mera's a bit of a lurker, I'm afraid... Don't worry, she's never very far away...
Speaking of which... MERA'S COMING DOWN FOR THANKSGIVING!!!!! YEEHAW!! WOOHOO!!! *Throwing all sense of decorum to the four winds, Valentine runs up a wall, across the ceiling, down the oppisite wall, and begins turning backflips.* ETA a week and a half. In case you couldn't tell, I'm rather happy about this. :D

Jenna - Congrats on the Apartment! Now, if only we could find a way to ensure that all these landlord problems stay gone... *Starts giving his 10mm Op Special a checkup*

Coyote><< And guess who winds up at the business end of a Rokkan devastator. (better yet, knowing how completely despicable my Demona is, guess *what* winds up at the business end of that devastator. ;)>> I'm choking back a REALLY bad joke of that one...

Bronx><<everyone! Hope your day was pretty good, mine was, and I'll explain in a few more sentences. ^-^ I'm watching the Matrix while posting, and after 4 times it is still the best movie I've seen in a long time.>> Lucky stiff! That has to be my favorite action movie of all time! Mera still hasn't seen it, so I'll be renting it when she comes down for thanksgiving.

Heh. The last movie I took her to see was "Thirteenth Warrior", and she burst out laughing when the guy got his head ripped off. I think she'll be able to handle it...;)

FS><<Gunjack: Insane Jesus Clone: Hmm... if ya write it, I will DEFINATELY read it! >> Add that to the list of good band names...
I wonder how long it'll take for someone else to notice the possibilities presented by this little twist...

Yggdrasil(mind if I call you Yggi?) - Thanks for the great poem!

Wilek><<Why do I get the feeling that there'll be Dr. Nguyens showing up in a lot of ficverses. Evil minds think alike, lass. ;)>> Pity the poor gunjack who doesn't know who ANY of the mad scientists are... Who's this Dr. Nguyen?

Urgh... My computer has been taking five minutes to reload the CR...
L A G !

*Valentine hits the refresh button several times hoping for fresh posts, but none come.*

Oh well, it's past my bedtime anyway...
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 12, 1999 01:28:05 AM
IP: 1cust20.tnt4.dfw5.da.uu.net

Netscape officially stinks. Their mail notification thingie has locked up my computer and forced a reboot twice in as many hours. <grr>

Kyryn> <<Okami's grandmother is doing much better. Thanks for all the good wishes. She is going home from the hospital tomorrow and appears to be fully recovered.>> I'm glad. :)

Pistoff> <<Jericho and Michael Jackson would make a cute couple, wouldn't they?>> O_O ... ROTFLMTO!!! >8D <<I'm sure Wilek would lend you Mr. Thingy for this purpose...>> <muhahaha> I'll provide a 2.0 beta version--more pain, more gore, easier cleanup, autonomous travel capabilities (ie it comes when called), and a voice-controlled user interface! :D (Of course, I'd have to run the thing myself; the multiple-user voice authorization system hasn't been completed yet...hehe...)

Warpmind> <<if you still don't get that pun, I could tell you. You'd probably hate me for it, but I'm giving you the option of backing out now...>> Um...This is One Of Those Things I Don't Want To Know, isn't it? ;) I'll pass for now; who knows what kind of physiological and psychological damage this thing can cause...

Christine> <<Jericho's pre-destined-to-die life ... >> I'll be more than happy to make a few suggestions. >;) <<To all who didn't get it, try reading the punchline out loud, and that's all I'm gonna say on the subject ; )>> Ah. I'll try it once I work up the nerve, but I'll probably be too busy laughing at the characters' reactions (masterful work, that). :) <<Wilek > you shared it with Callahanians?>> Er...perhaps you were thinking of Warpmind? :) Oh, and Christine...

**SPOILERS FOR 'HEALING HANDS'**

<<His heart hammered, not in the spastic rhythm that had so lately begun to worry Dr. Nguyen but in the solid beat of wellness.>> Why do I get the feeling that there'll be Dr. Nguyens showing up in a lot of ficverses. Evil minds think alike, lass. ;)

**END**

Ironwolf> <<my friend’s wife (they were separated but not divorced) had informed us that it was us his satan worshiping friends (she said this cause we watch gargoyles and play d&d apparently if you do these things then you must also worship satan go figure) that led her husband (Charles) astray. She also said she did not want any of us at the grave sight.>> [Wilek simmers for a while, clearly fighting back homicidal urges.] That...that is just...<sigh> There are no words. >:(

Green Baron> <<Q: What did Michale Jackson say to OJ Simpson? A: Don't worry, I'll take care fo the kids.>> OH THE PAIN!!! <<I'm actually better than I used to be. I used to flog myslef with a belt when I was younger.>> <blink> <blink blink> Ye know, lad, this explains a *lot*...

Jenna> <<Thanks for all those who have been wishing me and Mike to get the apt, sending us their prayers and crossing their talons for us-- WE GOT IT!!! ^_^ :D>> YEAH!!!! <high-five> Congratulations!!! :D

Marc> <<I started to wonder shouldn't the gargoyles have adaptations for their nocturnal life. Do they have eyes designed for it,etc, etc.? Maybe they're like bats and have some sort of internal sonar?>> Probably something like enhanced (partly into infrared/ultraviolet?) sight and hearing. I don't know about sonar, although the ears are probably sensitive enough...
Wilek Nereus
Friday, November 12, 1999 12:47:02 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

Just a few quick things:

X-Men news: Looks like the people over at Marvel Comics are once again either milking their cash cow or beating a dead horse. They evidently must feel pretty secure that the X-Men movie will do gangbusters at the box office and that the infusion of new creators to the X-Titles (i.e. Chris Claremont and Grant Morrison) will revitalize the franchise, cause apparently they are already planning a NEW X-Men animated show. Word has it that the animation style for this one will be different than the previous series. I pray that means more of an anime influence, but that's probably a a stretch.

Greed: I know this is the show that has taken over where Action failed (*sigh*)...but has anybody else in here seen this game show? I don't know, I'm hooked on it. I like it better than that Regis show, even...

Jericho: Ugh, what a nasty villain. I'm sorry, but I never got the ol' incest thing. I mean....to make an understatement, that's pretty darn sick. Yeah, I suppose Goliath and Demona could be siblings, but I'd doubt that statement. Whether they were or not, doing it with someone you *know* is your own kid.....All I gotta say is, Demona must have been one hoooooooooorny gargoyle.

Jenna: *hugs* Glad you got the apartment ;) Hopefully you'll have a much better time there than at your current location.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 11:37:36 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Jenna> WHOOHOO! Congrats on the apartment! That's wonderful!

Fire Storm> <<Heck, I would be happy if the posters that have a REASON for not being here came back. (DumlaoX, Merlin Missy...)>> So do I, and you just reminded me... does anyone have Missy's new address? I lost it, and as a Hood-lum she'd probably be interested in all the sh*t that's hitting the fan here - if she doesn't know already.

Green Baron> << Villains are much more fun to observe than heroes :) >> Oh, yes, and much more fun to write... a group of bad guys I included in a Buffy fic who were just there for "monster of the week filler" ended up taking over the sucker, and consequently the fic became my longest ever. :)

MJ as Edgar Allan Poe? Gaaaahhh!!! Noooo!

Coyote> Just got your e-mail... I need to think about it for a bit before I let you know.

*sigh* Must go work on writing now. I was dumb enough to read spoiler info during November sweeps (bad Mandi! No biscuit!) and now I'm alternately excited, frustrated, and wishing I could just "jump" to certain nights of the week. Stupid TV writers, messing with us poor viewers...

**sees all the knowing looks people are giving her and sighs**

Yes, I found out the summaries of the "Now and Again" eps airing this month. And I have the feeling I'll be throwing more cushions at the TV set the 26th. (Let's just say I'm sensing possible Veruca Syndrome, and I don't like it.)
Mandolin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 11:12:59 PM
IP: 144.175.18.15

Lest We Forget.

In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.


We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.


Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

John McCrae(1915)

Good Night Everyone.
Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Thursday, November 11, 1999 11:07:13 PM
IP: dialin39.kitchener.globalserve.net

Green Baron: <Yep. Th eevil is attractive, just like Thailog. Villains are much more fun to observe than heroes :)>
Boy, do I know that! They are also SO much more fun to write about. As I think about my own fic-verse (Yes, it is still out there. I just have to post the new stories), I usually write one main stream story and one alternative story just so the bad guys can win.
Also, it is also so much more fun to take some of the regular 'good' characters and turn them 'bad'. VERY fun!

Jewel: Mengele: Hmm... maybe his BODY died, but his mind is still alive in the body of one of his "children."
(Inspiration VIA Christine.)

SJ: Holocaust Museum: Been there...
I believe that the glass encased walkway above the lobby says it all...
It is just so... morbid. It makes you say "I can't beleive this happened."
Our tax dollars put to a GOOD use: The Smithsonian Museums.

Wilek: <(Now if only the other inexplicably absent posters would return...)>
Heck, I would be happy if the posters that have a REASON for not being here came back.
(DumlaoX, Merlin Missy...)

Christine: Jericho is a GREAT character. Nice and evil... just how I like'em!

Ironwolf: <Actually didn’t Cleopatra’s family tree look like a 2 by 4>
Thats where we get the term "Blueblood." In some royal families, they do not give the gene pool a chance to breathe.

Gunjack: Insane Jesus Clone: Hmm... if ya write it, I will DEFINATELY read it!

Pistoff: I take it you are not too fond of seeing Jackal and Hyena together either.

Jenna: Apartment: WAY TO GO! (when and where's the house warming party?)

Marc: I am not sure what Greg's vision says, but it is pretty much a common fan-fic trend that the Gargoyles do have increased night vision and better hearing.
Fire Storm
Thursday, November 11, 1999 10:01:42 PM
IP: t2-10.visitus.net

Sorry about the double post, forgot one thing!

Micheal Jackson> Ewww... Poe must be turning over in his grave, finding out that this guy is going to play him.
Bronx - [Bronx Wyvern4@aol.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 09:45:21 PM
IP: spider-wc064.proxy.aol.com

*Walks in planting a poppy flower* And they shall be remembered for their heroic acts.

............


Hi everyone! Hope your day was pretty good, mine was, and I'll explain in a few more sentences. ^-^ I'm watching the Matrix while posting, and after 4 times it is still the best movie I've seen in a long time. Normally I'm not the type who loves shoot 'em up flims, but the plot in this movie is clever. Besides, Trinity kicks major butt, and gets to have a really cute guy at the end :)

*Spoliers for Princess Monomoke*

Wow, seeing an anime on the big screen is something totally different for me. If you haven't experianced something like it, I recommend it highly! To be honest I was expecting this movie to have very good animation, but the plot a little shady. Man was I wrong! PM has beautiful animation and a spectacular plot at the same time. At the begining, it was really exciting to hear Keith David narroating, and then later playing the old boar (I forget his name at the present moment!) My friend actually had to cover my mouth from screaming, "HEY EVERYONE, THAT"S GOLIATH!!" It was really funny. Gb, I gotta tell you later what Matt said about that one! LoL! Anyway, I really liked many of the messages sent, how nature and the animals that dwell in it must be kept. Did anyone think that the forest spirit had a creepy face? whew.. the deer can smile I'm telling ya!

*End spoilers*

Anyone in the Manhattan area> Look alive! I was just there today and I saw large amounts of Gargoyle merchandice. Now if only I had the money to get some of it ;_;

That's all for now rookery sibs! love ya
Bronx - [Bronx Wyvern4@aol.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 09:30:55 PM
IP: spider-wc064.proxy.aol.com

JERICHO - Had to wait for the proper time to say this, but Jericho has his good points and his bad...

**** SEMI SPOILERS ****
In my own DeGuy Saga, Jericho will make a showing, more along the time "Generations Quest", but he's not like the Jerry in Christine's stories. Yes, he is cunning, twisted, and evil enough, but that's more to an outside influence. In truth he has his own sense of honor, and does take some offense and slights...

*** END SPOILERS ***

In truth, I find incest in general to be slightly disagreable, and I don't condone it at all as a practice in RL.

But, lets be frank here... the way Christine uses it in her stories is just that. A fictional take on one format of relations between the sexes. True, some don't like it, and some find it vile, but the fact remains... these are characters on a writen page. Let's not get too worked up about this, okay?

If it had been a video tape of someone 'bumpin' uglies' with a close blood relation, yes we'd all have something to gripe about...

And that's all I'll say on that.

JENNA - Glad to hear you got that apartment! Sorry I haven't been too communicative with you and Mike lately. My own life has been going all to heck lately...

Maintain and Check Six!
Stephen R. Sobotka, Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Spokane, WA, USA
Thursday, November 11, 1999 08:58:20 PM
IP: m156.ieway.com

Evil attraction, my 2 decicreds>
I noticed that a LOT of people, if given the chance between getting "with" a good or evil character of their choosing, most would go with the evil, or at any rate, the brash rebellious Bad@ss, for example, who would most guys like, Demona or Angela? Airazor or Blackarachnia? or in the case of darkstalkers, Felicia or Morrigan? Which Bond women are more popular? the evil ones, and I can explain it: No moral objections from evil sorts, that and they're just more open-minded, you could do things with them you'd never get away with with say a "lawful-good" type, Just look at DBZ, who's more popular, Goku or Vegeta?
shogun raptor
Thursday, November 11, 1999 08:47:39 PM
IP: user-38lddlm.dialup.mindspring.com

Jenna> Happy new apartment!
Pogo
Thursday, November 11, 1999 08:06:13 PM
IP: fwnt.dorseylaw.com

Jenna: **HUGE HUGS!!** Congrats! May you and Mike be happier than happy in your new digs. :)

Jericho: Hmmm ... **strokes chin** interesting conversation topic. To toss in my two cents ...

All right, *had* Jericho been in WCC, here's what I would've done with him ... I've already told Christine this, and although she was willing to let me use him retroactively, I politely declined, but *only* because I was already in the middle of writing it.
Anyway, *my* Demona sees an opportunity with Jericho ... a gargoyle accomplice, who happens to be madly in love with her, and is *totally* compliant to her every whim. (Thinking that the time he'd be snatched would be shortly after "Demon Whispers," which would definitely tell you exactly *how* vile Jericho is.) Although the discovery that Jericho is her son, despite his being from an alternate universe, would at the same time sicken my Demona. But she doesn't want to waste him, really. She would place him in a position where he's commanding the otherworldy Rokkan-allied forces ... but as soon as the tide turns against them, he'd be a convenient scapegoat. And guess who winds up at the business end of a Rokkan devastator. (better yet, knowing how completely despicable my Demona is, guess *what* winds up at the business end of that devastator. ;)
But it's all theory now. 'Tis too late, I'm too far into the writing to put him in now. Besides, I'm sure any death I deal out to Jericho *pales* compared to the death that I'm sure Christine has planned ... and besides that, it would've been only a temporary death anyway. :)
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Thursday, November 11, 1999 06:53:47 PM
IP: zzz-209252248235.splitrock.net

Jewel- good comments as always...

Green Baron - I agree with you on your D&D comments, and regarding the incest issue in royalty.

Regarding Jerico=-- Hoh, Boy..

I have to agree with Pistoff on this. I really don't like Jerico either.

Regarding that he is destined to die- I am not surprised. Weather by karma, or divine intervention wickedness is always punished, usually by it's own actions.

As comparing him to Thailog- well, you have to give Thailog this- he may be a B@stard, and he certially has issues with Elisa, but he's not chasing after either one of his 'real' parents. Thank goodness.(no offense anyone)

Jerico also reminds me- well, sorry Christine, of a spoiled brat. I mean, Thailog probally had it alot harder being looked after by Servirus of all people (would you trust your kids with this freak?). To me Jerico probally had it alot better- at least he HAD a childhood!

And remeber Thailog saught Goliath out in Double Jeapordy, he wanted SOME type of relationship- and he was willing to share the most important thing in his world, money with him. I know alot of people don't like him, but I like Thailog- that's why I started my "Misbegotten Son" fic. In a few incidences in the show I see glimmers of something - not entirely evil. (I know everyone gags at The Goliath Chronicles) but I did like the bit about Genesis Undone. I really want to see Thailog redeemed, in some way.

But I want to see Jerico be damned.- sorry, Christine.

JENNA
Thursday, November 11, 1999 06:40:54 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Hey, everyone. I've been studying evolution for my bio test and reading the posts down below about the inbreeding stuff, and I started to wonder shouldn't the gargoyles have adaptations for their nocturnal life. Do they have eyes designed for it,etc, etc.? Maybe they're like bats and have some sort of internal sonar? Just a thought.
marc - [dadigan@uiuc.edu]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 06:26:34 PM
IP: farm1-cache1.gw.uiuc.edu

I will read the other posts later, so forgive the inevitable double post that will come later- I just couldn't wait to tell you all.

Thanks for all those who have been wishing me and Mike to get the apt, sending us their prayers and crossing their talons for us--

WE GOT IT!!! ^_^ :D




jenna
Thursday, November 11, 1999 06:12:11 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Crzy: Love, I do understand the difference between fiction and reality. Though my own reality is severely skewed becuase of my job ;)...but anyway--one point at a time, here.

The possibility that Goliath and Demona could be brother and sister. Sure, maybe. But the fact is, they don't _know_ that. Demona and Jericho, however, _do_ know that they're mother and son. Sure, maybe this wouldn't matter to gargoyles--in times past. Nowadays, so many of them have had so much contact with humans that human values have "seeped into" them to a certain extent. Remember, in "Breeding Season," Angela was pretty horrified and disgusted when she found out what a motherf--ker Jericho is (pun intended...too easy, but irresistable nonetheless). Besides, I've heard a theory (from Weisman himself, I believe, though I could be mistaken) that gargoyles have ways of instinctively knowing when they're related--possibly through pheromones, or some sort of sixth-sense type of thing, if for no other reason than to prevent genetic defects caused by inbreeding. I just wish more of my customers had this ability. ;) ("Hi, I'm Billy-Bob, and I'm gon' marry my sister when we're sixteen...just like our parents did..." :) Yes, I'm looking at this from human standards. Because I'm human (but aside from that, I'm an okay guy. *g*). Yes, gargoyles are very different, and maybe they don't have anything against incest (or maybe they do, we don't know for sure because the TV series was aimed mainly at kids, and you're not gonna see that kind of subject matter on a kids' show). But even so, that doesn't mean I have to approve of it, nor does that mean anyone else should, either.

You said Demona is the villain and Jericho is the victim. Well, considering how many people Jericho murdered in cold blood, I'd say that makes him a villain, no matter the circumstances. Yes, Demona is a villain, even though certain events in her life made her that way. The massacre resulted because she tried to do what she thought was right, and it backfired, and she refused to accept responsibility. She's had moments when she guilt-trips about it, and should have some heavy payback coming. In my own ficverse, she's trying to redeem herself, but will _never_ feel completely successful. She'll always have the blood on her hands, and she'll always be aware of it. Because she has that tragedy in her past, there's the chance of redemption (though in Christine's stories, the instant Demona started humping her own son, she passed the point of no return). Jericho, on the other hand...what does he do? He murders people and has sex with his mommy. No matter how Demona manipulated him, it just doesn't compare.

You said you get slammed a lot because of this. I don't doubt that. However, I'm not slamming _you._ I'm simply voicing my opinion about a single detail. I'm just saying that the knowlege that this mama's boy has tons of women drooling over him makes me want to drink an entire bottle of Maalox, then wash it down with a bottle of Pepto.

You said you don't condone this type of behavior, you said it's revolting...and then you ended your post with, "WHOO!! what a BODY!" Um...sorry, but that, to me at least, indicates that you do condone it. Or at least, you're willing to let it slide simply because Jericho has a nice body. "Oh, sure, what he does isn't right...but it's okay, because he's a HUNK!" Maybe if he were less attractive physically, fewer women would be willing to forgive his behavior....

Please understand that I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking the fact that a disgusting character like Jericho can have such rabid, drooling fans. People are worshipping Jericho the same way teeny-boppers worship prefab pansy-asses like the New Kids on the Block, Backstreet Boys and Ricky Martin. This is akin to certain Trekkies claiming that Kirk and Spock are homosexual lovers. All I'm doing is pointing out something that is terribly wrong and disturbing.

This attitude is perfectly illustrated whenever Christine announces new pics on her site. It usually goes something like this--"New on my site: One pic of [insert character's name] and THREE new pics of Jericho." And of course the pics of Jericho are often "erotic." Which reminds me, I was surfing the net one day and stumbled across a picture of Demona and Jericho having sex. I clicked the "back" button so fast that it almost caused a time warp. An artist who draws a picture like that is not only condoning the act it depicts, but very likely gets off on it as well. The people who request and look at these pics sure as hell get off on it.

Sorry if this offended you, love, but I just had to say it. I had to try one more time to get through to people...but the addition of even more members to the Jericho Fanclub tells me that it's a hopeless cause. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

Christine: <<The mystique of Jericho ... I dunno, maybe I'm way off base here, but I _am_ the one who gets all the letters about him ... and at the risk of upsetting the applecart, I think part of the attraction is _because_ of his "habits", not "in spite of". A distressing amount of women are drawn toward guys who are absolute poison, and Jericho is perhaps the most extreme example thereof. He is _evil_ and one of its anagrams, _vile_, and I really do think that's part of it.>> I agree completely--a lot of women are possibly drawn to this character _because_ of the things he does--and that's what truly disturbs me.... As for Jericho being "pre-destined to die"... 8D YAY!!! I didn't know about this development. I'm eager to see this one. I'd be glad to loan you Jack Hammer for this event, and Jack would be happy to cooperate, too. ;) And I'm sure Wilek would lend you Mr. Thingy for this purpose... *evil grin and cackle* ^_~

Green Baron: Michael Jackson Daycare Center? ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Oh gawd, that was a good one! A true nightmare if it ever happened, but a great one-liner nonetheless. :)

That's all I have time for now. Still trying to get caught up on everything, and I just end up falling farther and farther behind. More later tonight, I hope....
Pistoff - [phred@koalas.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 06:07:47 PM
IP: wire-7.koalas.com

Oh boy...

Ya know... maybe I WON'T post that post I have been writing...
Well, at least not in here.

Here is some highly edited parts of my post:

Jenna: No, I do not thing that Hitler's personal life justifies what he did. He is still someone that the world is better off without. One thing that happened because of Hitler, though, was the development of the United Nations. (You decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing.)
Pledging your allegiance to this country: Not in it's messed up state. If it got a helluva lot better, yes, but not in it's current state.
"I love my country but fear my government." (BTW... who said that?)

Airwalker: <May his name be cursed to the end of time and beyond. >
I fear it will not, due to how history gets changed over the years.

Jewel: <Shorts in November>
Heck, I wear shorts outside almost every day of the year!
(Detroit, MI)
Mengel! Thank you! I have been trying to remember that name!
Rant: Yow...
Mengel: Thank you for the history lesson about him.
BTW... was he a Sevarius type? I mean, did he try to TOTALL alter somebody, even to the point of combining parts from one twin onto the other?
Voltaire quote: Ahh... good old Voltaire. Another motto I like to live by.
(Hmm... after reading your posts, I think I like you! ;)

Jannie: No one has the right to decide how someone shall live.
I have no right telling you how you should live, and no one should be able to tell you how you can live, ESPICAILLY the government.



Robby: Don't worry... these discussions usually fizzle out in a few days. (Well... at least they USUALLY do.
<Ya hear that? No use of science equipment in this here CR! j/k>
<Fire Storm is standing in the CR mixing a few chemicals over a Bunsen burner when he reads the post above. Quickly, he hides the flasks behind his back. >

Ya know... I should start a CR where all of these potentially flammable discussions can be moved to.

Jenna: Whoa... I missed that previous comment about management trying to cash in on peoples suffering.
I swear...
Haven't these people been through enough? I guess management believes: "Well, they are getting insurance checks soon, so they can afford to pay for the damage they caused!"

Toku: Very well thought out comments and addition to this discussion.

SJ: VERY good comments!

Jaden: At least the times I was hit by a car they were nice enough to stop and make sure I was all right.

Pistoff: Jericho Joyride ROFL!

Warpmind: Congrats on finding a new and better place!
Death sentence: Well, they may not learn from their mistakes, but it makes sure they will never be able to make them again.
The seagull: Don't worry. You did the right thing.

Xanathar: <Blinks*isn't that just a tad excessive of advertising companies. >
Oh yeah.

Wilek: <Ah, but would they have done so without Hitler ordering it in the first place...? >
Hmm. good point. Probably would have, at least some of them.

Delphi and Jewel: I think we really needed that little bit of laughter in here to ease the tension.

Jewel: < What does it mean when the flag is at half-mast at the Post Office?
They're hiring.>
Groan... THAT was bad!

Spike: Interesting use.

For everyone that has decided to stay out of the discussion, you made a good choice! <G>

Yow! I did NOT want to start a flame war, but it almost looks like I did in here!) (About Hitler)

CrzyDemona: For some reason, Geocities won't let me see your artwork on the Jerricho fanpage.
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 06:04:00 PM
IP: t1-20.visitus.net

Welcome back to the fray, Jackal.

Tim P.> Welcome back to the fray, as well, friend, though I fear you may have presented yourself poorly with a well-thought out response that contained a somewhat incnediary nature and appearance. I know what you mean, so I'm glad you said what you did.

Ironwolf> Thank you for saying no one is truly bad in this CR. Perhaps I was a bit harsh on myself when I called myself evil.

As for the Satanist angle, I wish people would eb more informed before they start throwing in accusations. Duengeones and Dragons is far from Satanic and she should meet my Southern Baptist friend who has played it, beofre she draws that conclusion :) The negative publicity D&D is like the negative publicity airlines get. When soemone plays the game and kills him/herself, that individual had severe mental problems and couldn't tell fiction form reality. In fact, fewer players of RPGs kill themselves in proportion to the average suicide rate in the world. The same kind of mentality that gives players of RPGs a bad name are the same kind of mentality who misinterpret the Bible and start organizations like the Aryan Nation, the World Church of the Creator, the Cathari and Waldigensi (sp), and Fred Phelps. I'm probably drifting aimlessly here, but I just wish people would see that a product or a book or an organization does not make people bad, but just a few bad apples misuse the book, tool, or organziation, and spoil the bunch.

I also disagree with you on incest and royalty. By and large, the practice has had all sorts of negative effects. For instance, the Hapsburgs were so inbred that they began to develop tusks and other porcine facial features. In fact, one of teh Hapsburg Kings of Spain coudln't pronounce the Spanish properly, so a new dialect was formed so as not to insult the King. In addition, inbreeding is what led to the decline of many ancient dynasties. One reaosn Egypt had so many was because the Pharoahs were so inbred, they could not rule effectively. I do agree that we shouldn't be as shocked by Jericho's behavior, but I don't think its a good thing.

Gunjack> Since you mentioend her, how and where is Mera?

Jenna> Any news on the apartment?

Christine> Yep. Th eevil is attractive, just like Thailog. Villains are much more fun to observe than heroes :)

Michael Jackson as Edgar Alan Poe> Well, they're both white and eccentric, but Michale Jackson is rich, while Poe was always broke. A joke comes to mind with all the talk of Michael Jackson.

Q: What did Michale Jackson say to OJ Simpson?
A: Don't worry, I'll take care fo the kids.

Skippy> Actually, it might be fun to have Keving Smith and Bob Weinstein on the same show. I bet Kevin woudl have some choice words for him :)

Xanthar> What exactly is Remembrance Day?

Warpmind> I forgot in my last post, but I don't think what you did with the seagull was wrong. To let an animal slowly die in pain would have been far crueler.

Doug> I also apologize for being so self-absorbed that I forgot to say anything to you. I'm glad you're not staying. I at first was shocked by what you were saying, but I later realized you were saying it more out of anger, sinc eyou targeted your usual suspects and I know you're not the type to wish for such stuff to actually happen.

Aris> I don't know how well you value my opinion, but I ask that you stay. One individual has asked you to leave, though mainly out of anger. When we are emotional, our better judgemnet is clouded. I'm hoping you're threatening to leave because of strong emotions, just as I hope Doug's desire for you to leave was done due to emotions.

I don't wish you to leave, and hopefully no one else does either.

BTW, I heard about the bombings in Athens, I hope you and your family weren't affected.

Sevarius Jr> <<But when I am passionate about something, I get animated, and when I really feel very strongly about something, it's easy for me to curse. If that makes anyone in here think less of me, I am sorry, but that is how I am. I have never made any claims to being very articulate or intelligent, so forgive my uncouth language. >>

I don't think any less of you though it may not help your argument as much when you use profanity. I think you are intelligent, though emotions do cloud our better judgement, but it's probably better that you let them out, becuase suppressing them can turn you into...well me without the cuteness factor ;)

Jewel> <<And as an aside, GB, you castigate yourself too much! Sheesh! No need to throw yourself on your sword that much>>

I'm actually better than I used to be. I used to flog myslef with a belt when I was younger. I guess I made up for having nuns that didn't use rulers in grade school :)

You also present good points. If we don't accept flare ups and forgive and forget, we will wind up with the same "Office politics" in the CR that exist in Universities and Businesses. We are better than that.

Bronx> It's no problem. I rather enjoy being first to know what's going on with your life, before the rest of the CR finds out.

SOROW and Joe Boxer> I know this is really off-topic, but the part of New Orleans I live in was the town of Carrollton about 150 years ago and it was then the seat of the neighbouring parish (county).

Pistoff> Speaking of Michael Jackson, how about the Michael Jackson daycare center :)

I'm off.




Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Thursday, November 11, 1999 05:35:04 PM
IP: 141.164.133.103

Everyone, it's time to chill out. Yes, we all have to rage occasionally (as my ...rant earlier proved) but come on, aren't most of us friends here? Or trying, anyway? Aiya, people. I'm not trying to be preachy or anything, but I think everyone here needs to be reminded of a certain fact: it is OK to attack someone's idea, but it is *not* OK to attack the person. (When I went into a rabid frenzy over something Green Baron said, I attacked the idea, but was back to e-mailing and IM-ing him the next day. And as an aside, GB, you castigate yourself too much! Sheesh! No need to throw yourself on your sword that much.) Just because you attack an idea, that does not mean you attack a person. Yes, sometimes tempers flare. Welcome to *reality*. This may be a comment room, but we're still thinking, emotionaly creatures, and here, we lack the context clues of tone of voice, body language, and facial expression. That means it's a lot easier to take what someone says the wrong way. That that *means* is that *all* of us have to keep those things in mind, in both our posts and our responces to someone's else posts. (And I don't feel I'm being a hypocrite--I may rant, I many flame an idea or political stance, but I don't flame the *person*). Try not to take people's rants against your idea as a personal attack. It's usually not. But if you respond to it as if it is, it can very quickly turn *into* one.

In one week--shiesse, in only what, 2 days--we've had two people threaten to leave. I can understand the need to withdraw from the room--I've done it myself, but usually quietly and with as litte fanfare as possible--but this is becoming insane. I'm not asking that we always turn the other cheek, but what I am asking is that we be a little more forgiving what people say in the heat of the moment. Because otherwise, these little flare-ups are going to become a lot more common, as more people come on board, and as old grudges flare up in new and intersting ways.

OK, that said, I'm getting off my high horse now.

jewel
Thursday, November 11, 1999 05:06:22 PM
IP: spider-te081.proxy.aol.com

Ironwolf- hang in there man, Hugz..

Aaron- thanks.
jenna
Thursday, November 11, 1999 04:59:55 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

ironwolf- about the gal that thinks your a satanist-- yeah, Ive run into that too. I'm really thinking about doing a little fic on it..

More later- please keep talons crossed for me- we find out today if we get the apt.
jenna
Thursday, November 11, 1999 04:03:43 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Darnit!
That last one was me...
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 03:29:44 PM
IP: 1cust99.tnt3.dfw5.da.uu.net

Man, this place gets slow in the afternoon... Of course, that COULD be because most of the people in here actually work or go to school...
******************SPOILERS FOR "HEALING HANDS***************
Christine - Just read "Healing Hands"... Quite good, though a few lines made me REAL curious about what's been going on in the preceding fics... And I can't quite figure out that pun...

Also, the story gave me a creativity demon. Let's assume that Julian really is who Sevarious (nice touch on him/her, by the way) thinks he is, and the good doctor manages to escape from Xanatos. Let's further assume that he somehow gets his hands on the kid, and through some sort of evil actions (torture, expirimentation, attempts at brainwashing, etc.) permanently damages or twists Julian's mind. If there's anybody who could accomplish this, it would be Anton.
Yeah, I know that it's pretty far fetched, but so is cloning Jesus. Besides, following the basic clone model, we have no idea what programing has been crammed into Julian's mind.
So now we have an insane clone of Jesus running around the world. Does anybody else see where this could go?

I'm going to quit this train of thought before I get hit by lightning.
*************************END SPOILERS***********************

Mera - I think I'm competeing with your "Chicken talk" in lightning atraction...;)

Warpmind(I think) - If you wouldn't mind, can you send that pun explanation to me, too? Thanks!
Anonymous - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 03:24:36 PM
IP: 1cust99.tnt3.dfw5.da.uu.net

Aris Katsaris I owe you an apology. My post may have been a little harsher than I wanted. What I meant by the post was that green baron was only kidding and that mabey you should glance over it again. I guess the “post before looking” may have been to harsh. It was not meant to be but I have had a bleeping year and well it may have influenced my post. I don’t think anyone in here is a bad person so I really don’t take any of the rants seriously. Mabey that is why I caught the smiley face and the sarcasm Oh and the old argument we had while I don’t remember insulting you in a round about way (I thought I did it directly but I have slept since then and mabey I didn’t) yea you are right I did over react and if I didn’t apologize for that well; sorry. (you just happened to have found my one button; which is to accuse me of something I didn’t do; and well it just bypassed the fuse)
This is not an excuse for the harshness of the post just a way to explain why it may have come out the way it did, but well my friend’s wife (they were separated but not divorced) had informed us that it was us his satan worshiping friends (she said this cause we watch gargoyles and play d&d apparently if you do these things then you must also worship satan go figure) that led her husband (Charles) astray. She also said she did not want any of us at the grave sight. I thought I was dealing then she pulls this bleepin bleep. Sorry cuss words are the only thing I can think of so you the reader can fill in the bleeps. This worse part is well his daughters are like nieces and well I’ll never see them again.

Jericho. Actually didn’t Cleopatra’s family tree look like a 2 by 4 ? Royalty has also practiced incest for centuries so it might not be as bad as everyone thinks it is if you look at it form the big picture

ironwolf
Thursday, November 11, 1999 02:44:24 PM
IP: host-209-214-41-90.cha.bellsouth.net

Perhaps not my place to voice my opinion, but my real beef with Jerico isn't the incest angle, but that his loyalty is seriously questionable. Vid Breeding Season, part one I think, where he offers to f**k Angela behind Demona's back. Not because she's his sister, but that he'd cheat on Demona with anyone just bugs the hell out of me.

Well, my $.02.

Later.


Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Thursday, November 11, 1999 02:41:59 PM
IP: ppp-26.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

Pistoff - My love... man do I have bad news for you.

First off... I helped a bit in goading Christine to rationalize Demona and Jericho's current relationship. After all, for all we know (in Christine's universe). Goliath and Demona could be brother and sister. That is part of what happens when you don't know who your parents are... when you are raised with all the other hatchlings as brothers and sisters that eventually you will mate with.

You are looking at the situation from HUMAN standards. And yes... it is REVOLTING from our point of view. Gargoyle standards are a bit different. They don't get married, they don't know their Biological parents, they are not human... as much as we (in story and our minds) want to put our standards on them... they are simply, VERY different from us. But it also shows how much Demona has poisoned his mind. Her need to control him COMPLETELY has taken it to this level. Demona is the villian here... Jericho is the victim (BIG TIME).

I get slammed a lot for my love of the tortured soul that is Jericho... I don't CONDONE this type of behavior in humans... and I remind everyone that this is JUST A STORY! This is in no way shape or form, REAL. If you haven't been able to tell yet, the stories that were written for my birthday include a character that is modeled after me... That doesn't mean the "CRZY one" will act as the "WCKY one" does. (at least not until I get the funding and a plane of my own... but I digress) You can say what you want about me... about Jericho... you are all entitled to your opinions. Just keep in mind that this isnt reality... please.

The Jericho Fanclub is being updated right now... those of you who have recently sent in your applications, look for your name on the Member site soon. I don't plan on turning my back on Jericho any time soon. He isn't a shallow 2D character. He has depth and is very complex. I will always love him for that.... heh... that and WHOO!! what a BODY! :P
CrzyDemona - [<--- Jericho Fanclub Website]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 01:33:16 PM
IP: mp2e8.ez2.net

Hmmm, I listen to Jackyl, and JackaL returns. JackaL returns, and Aris bails. The balance tilts the other way for a while, I guess.

Jenna> Good luck with the apartment application. Hugz.

Tim> Since I've never claimed to be PC, I can safely say... You're an @$$hole. And so am I. ;)

JackaL> Welcome back man. It's not the same here without you. BTW, have you posted since The Fragile was released?

Pistoff> Umm, Christine has a character named "Wcky" who I think may be a mask for someone else. Vid the second Amazon Women story.

Warpmind> I think I'll stay in ignorance on this, thanks. It could be like the Monty Python ep with the lethal joke.

Later.


Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Thursday, November 11, 1999 01:26:00 PM
IP: ppp-26.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

Aris: Now, nothing I'm saying here is to be taken as anything negative. I'm only trying to explain my rationale.

In jest, I would first note that you are not the center of my attention, negative or positive, so don't assume it. There is only room for one center of attention in my life right now, and Lexy-chan is it. ;) ,V..

Aris, maybe my post would've been more efficient and eloquent had I single people out and yelled at them. It would, however, be both lazy and hypocritical on my part. The entire point I stressed to make was that we don't need to go around verbally abusing our clan-mates to make our points. In a room full of bad vibes and flames, what kind of example and point would I have made had I singled people out and labeled them "bad" or just simply embarrassed them? It would be like screaming my fool head off about how shouting never helped anything.

Sometimes, we are faced with the difficult choice between speaking our Truth and living it.

And, yes, Aris - as a general rule for all of us - people should not be issuing backhanded apologies or roundabout insults. It is merely another veiled flame, and flaming is not permitted in this room, no matter how nicely we wrap it up. Lacing comments with "I hate you" 's is not exactly a good way to end a flame war.

We may think apologies are due to us sometimes, but we are often forced to get over it instead of stewing or seeking restitution/"Justice". It is run into the ground, yes, but two wrongs do not make a right. I've learned that, in many cases, people who aren't going to apologize for their behavior will merely ignore the issue or even the person. It might not seem very big of them, but I think it is better than flaming.

You know what they say, "If you can't say something nice …"

Ah heck … screw that platitude.

How about, "The rule of the CR are NO flaming." ? That is pretty much to the point.

Toku Kaioto - CR Sage - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, November 11, 1999 01:06:48 PM
IP: 141.133.121.148

::reads all the Jericho stuff and laughs herself into a coughing fit::

Oh, ow, ow, that hurts, where's my inhaler? (yes, they've got me on an _inhaler_ for this).

The mystique of Jericho ... I dunno, maybe I'm way off base here, but I _am_ the one who gets all the letters about him ... and at the risk of upsetting the applecart, I think part of the attraction is _because_ of his "habits", not "in spite of".

A distressing amount of women are drawn toward guys who are absolute poison, and Jericho is perhaps the most extreme example thereof. He is _evil_ and one of its anagrams, _vile_, and I really do think that's part of it.

Converting Crzy > oh, dear ... I don't think that'll _ever_ happen ... the woman is insanely obsessed ... she is trying to bribe me and get me to make bets and do anything she can in order to save Jericho's pre-destined-to-die life ...

Wilek > you were the first to mention it, but by no means the only. To all who didn't get it, try reading the punchline out loud, and that's all I'm gonna say on the subject ; )

Gunjack > it's on my page at http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/healing_hands.htm

Wilek > you shared it with Callahanians? And told them where it came from? Eep, I don't know whether to be flattered or worried!

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 01:00:59 PM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net

SJ> <<Don't exacerbate the problem. Doug made his comments, apologized for them, and let's let it end there>>

Yeah I suppose you are right (though btw, Doug explained in email that he will not give an apology to me, therefore his apology was directed towards everyone except me- but one way or another i don't care). But still point taken.

Ways of addressing people> Okay, I *know* that this will be seen by many as a way of restarting the flame war which has stopped, but it honestly is not. It's a question which sincerely puzzles me due to something which I've seen from atleast four different people in here.

Take as a point of example Doug's last comments (and previous ones as well): "I want us all to be friends and a clan (except for one person, who can leave and never come back for all I care, by now I'm sure you all know who he is)" and "..and I do not support mass killing or genocide (no matter what certain selfish idiots think)"

Everyone can see that those sentences are completely equivalent to "I want us all to be friends and a clan (except for Aris, who can leave and never come back for all I care)" and "..and I do not support mass killing or genocide (no matter what Aris who's a selfish idiot thinks)"

It seems to me that people seem to think that the former sentences are somehow better manners than the latter ones, that the first sentences are conciliatory while the second ones are flaming. But *I* not only think that not the former sentences are ridiculous, but as far as I know myself, they are also far *far* more likely to get me angry. Honesty I accept - such 'maneuvering' annoys the hell out of me. In fact it was atleast in part the reason for my flame war with Ironwolf (who had also used such a roundabout way of insulting me - I then insulted him back directly) and one of my fights with Jackal (for somewhat more complicated reasons)...

Moreover I think that both Kaioto and Tim could have made their posts both simpler and more elegant if they had been willing to use my name clearly in certain places of their posts. But for some reason I do not understand they did not.

So why does this happen? Why is it used as a way of referring to people when it is neither clearer, nor more direct nor more sincere nor more polite?

As I said it *is* a sincere question, and not an effort to restart the flame war.

Doug> <<I want us all to be friends and a clan (except for Aris, who can leave and never come back for all I care)>>

Kazaam - you got it! (with the possible exception of announcing a fic or something of the sort)
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:16:30 PM
IP: athe530-i160.otenet.gr

Michael Jackson as Poe: <makes face> Yup. I heard about that last night at salon.com. Here's the clipping:

Nov. 11, 1999 | Edgar Allan uh-oh?
Michael Jackson has signed on to play the neurotic 19th century poet in the big-budget indie flick "The Nightmare of Edgar Allan Poe." Filming will start next year in Montreal.
Quoth the raven: "What the ...?!"

<g> But, to say something in favor of Jackson as Poe, ya gotta admit--he *is* one of the scariest guys out there... ;) And Poe *did* have a thing for a young girl...(well, can't get *everything* right...)

jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 11:59:29 AM
IP: spider-to035.proxy.aol.com

Haven't had much time to post lately. Been hideously busy with school and a new Commercial Art course I'm taking.

Doug> Glad to see you won't be leaving the CR. It wouldn't be the same without you. BTW, I will be sending you feedback for your recent fics as soon as I can.

Speaking of fanfic, I'm almost finished with the first chapter of a multi-part pilot (TGS/Babylon 5 crossover) that will lead into my main saga "Gargoyles: 2267" (B5 fans should know the signifigance of this date. The pilot "Dark Unions" will take place in 2260-61 (More dates B5 fans should know). I also plan to set up a webpage for this saga. It should be a blast.

**** Buffy Angel Spoilers *****

Buffy and Angel were very good this week. I will miss Oz a lot. He reminds me of a lot of my RL friends. And it was fun to Angel's sensitive side. Looking forward to seeing Spike again next week (hopefully we'll see Drusilla again as well soon).

**** Beast Machines Spoilers ****

The first two parts of "Revelations" have been great so far. The scene with all the lifeless Transformer bodies was particularly chilling. Had the feel of a concentration camp.

I actually had a theory that Megatron broke free from his chains while time-traveling and fell through time landing on Cybertron before the Maximals arrived. Never thought it'd be true.

I am enjoying the Blackarachnia/Thrust/Silverbolt thread very mch. It feels as if things have come full circle.

I never liked Cheetor as a character, but I like what is being done with him story-wise Optimus has gone crazy. Personally I'd like to see Optimus get over it and focus on what must be done.

And the Vehicons have really grown on me, especially Jetstorm. He has a cool personality. And I'm waiting to find out who his spark really belongs to.

**** End Spoilers ****

I'll try to stop by more often, I really miss this place when I'm not here.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 10:23:10 AM
IP: spider-tp034.proxy.aol.com

Wilek, Pistoff> I watched PI last night and Kevin Smith was too much of a gentleman honestly. He did bring up the fact that Bob performs exorcisms and that he has allegations of misconduct surrounding him. But he didn't do much more with it...If we had known that he was going to be such a wimp we should have sent the info to Howie Mandel he's the one that looked like he needed something to talk about :)
Skippy The Klingon
Thursday, November 11, 1999 08:49:15 AM
IP: uv1-38.ultravision.net

*Walks into the CR with a red Poppy pinned to his shirt*

"We shall remember them"







It's good to see that this place has cooled down at last.

Warpmind:<<I FOUND A NEW PLACE>>Congratulations.

Wilek re Brocken/broken:<<I was unaware you had contacts within the Unseelie Court. ;) j/k>>Don't make me come over there;)

Kaioto:It's okay,let's just put this mess behind us friend.

Autumn:Welcome.

JackaL:Welcome back!

Doug:Glad to hear that you're not leaving.

marc:<<Everyone-Bad news. Star Wars web page has just released that Ahmed Best (aka Jar Jar) will be returning to Star Wars-Episode II>>Jar Jar in EP II!!!,I hope they chuck him in the Sarlac pit(Jar Jar enduring a thousand years of pain and suffering,I know I know,it's to good for him>;) )

Pistoff:<<Yessss! Publicly humiliated! As often as possible, I hope! :)>>of course>:),picture the scene.......

**WARNING this part of the post could be considered by some to be disturbing**



Ricky Martin's been stripped naked and is being paraded down main street in front of a crowd of millions.(Live T.V. too)

"When this is over,then will you give me that photograph" said Ricky Pleeding.

"Maybe"said Xanathar as he waved a scandelous picture of Ricky Martin and a sheep just outside of the singers(ugh!)grasp.



**END WARNING**

Goodnight all!!
Xanathar
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Thursday, November 11, 1999 07:16:01 AM
IP: 139.134.27.66

Hi, guys. Feelin' better now.

Jannie: Funny thing is, just after I had written that post, I started feeling better already. Probably just needed to get it off my chest, I guess. :)

Jenna: My cheeryness over having found a new place obviously made me temporarily unaware of your problems in the same lane. Best of luck.

Anne: Any time, lass. Any time.

Wilek: Y'know, if you still don't get that pun, I could tell you. You'd probably hate me for it, but I'm giving you the option of backing out now...

Airwalker: And I thought Hitler being a vegetarian was because he just hated vegetables... :)

Jewel: You forgot one: What has four legs and one arm? A happy pit bull.

Aaron: What I said to Wilek goes for you too; I can explain the pun, if Christine is still reluctant... but of course, it WAS pretty gruesome.

Commencing replies after an unfortunate disconnection (ani I don't even bother wasting DC for that one). Fortunately, I saved what I had written yestereve.

Kaioto: Oh-kay. Back in the trade, I see. Well, now that's cleared up.

Gunjack Valentine: The Oedipal Complex and Multiple Homicide thing was intentional. And no, I don't know why they sound so amusing together, either.

Tim P.: Temper, friend. Temper... Good points, but you might want to try some relaxation techniques. ;)

Coyote: You get funny visions about someone of your characters pulling a stunt like gargoyle furniture, too? Me, I don't have any unique gargoyle characters yet, but I know Manxine would be likely to employ Lexington for furniture... read into that statement what you will... you might be right... Lex might get the idea in a soon upcoming fic ;) if you don't mind my plugging...

Michael Jackson as Poe: Gods have mercy on our souls...

Welcome back, Jackal.

**JOYRIDE**
The Joyriders roam into the casino, heading for the stage where Jerry Seinfeld is speaking.
"Well, so much for a low profile," Warpmind mutters. "I better find that fuse. You guys enjoy Seinfeld, okay?"
The other Joyriders grin and wave Warpmind off to find his equipment. Checking out a floor plan displaying all emergency exits etc. Warpmind quickly locates the storage room and makes his way there. Quickly locating the fuse he's looking for, he swaps the defect fuse for a new one, and then grabs a couple of spares before heading out. At the door he spies some unusual electronic equipment.
"Hmmm... this looks like some pretty unusual electronic equipment. If my eyes do not deceive me, that's a Flux Condensator, and over there... I better bag this stuff. We might get some laughs from it ,if we can hook it up to Cthulhu."
Stepping out of the storeroom, Warpmind heads back to the stage, from whence a few screams can be heard.
"Okay, what's the gang up to in my absence?"
**TO BE CONTINUED**

Oh, Christine: That Tall Tale of Ebon's... I checked into #Callahans yesterday, and the temptation was too great... I told it in there (clearly stating the origin, mind you) and was dumb enough to peek out from cover afterwards. A St. Bernhard was needed to locate me in the pile of peanuts. ;) It was an undeniable success, and I owe you for it.

Well, seems there is nothing more to be said now, so I'll catch you later.

*Draws a katana and performs an amazing show of swordsmanship before limping out, clutching his left thigh.*
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Thursday, November 11, 1999 03:54:10 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

Okay, a few replies here...I've still got stuff to catch up on from last week, but I'll get to that tomorrow, since I have the day off and will actually have time...

Warp: That thing about the seagull is so sad. I'm sorry that happened. Taking a life is not an easy thing (if it _is_ easy, then it's time to worry), but in this case it was the lesser of two evils. Better than letting the poor thing suffer, since it would've died anyway. :( I'm glad the Joyride was able to lighten things up for you, though. :) <<He's his mother's son, no question about that.>> LMAO! Oh, good one! Wish I'd thought of that.... And I agree about violence in diplomatic terms being more entertaining. As the one I did a couple of weeks ago showed, just _implying_ everything can be even more effective than stating it straight-on...and Kaioto's reaction to that one proves it. ;) And congrats on getting a new place to live! :D

Jenna: Sorry about that fire. That's absolutely disgusting, what the management people are doing. And now people are looting it?! *adds them to the growing list of Joyride targets* I hope you can get out of that place soon. *hugs* I'm glad that assistance was there for your mother in law, too. It's a shame that the level of medical care we get depends on the amount of money we have, unless we can get this kind of assistance... :(

Xanathar: <<And as for killing Ricky Martin no I would not like to see him dead,publicly humiliated yes;) killed no>> Yessss! Publicly humiliated! As often as possible, I hope! :)

Jannie: *bows* Thank you! I hope to work on that..."sequel"...sometime tomorrow or the next day. It'll be on my Rant Page as soon as possible. ;-D

Wilek: *bows* Thank you! :D

Skippy: (re: Politically Incorrect) Ohhh! Ohhhhh!!! I've GOT to watch this one!!! 8D

Delphi and Jewel: (re: groaners) Ohhhhhh gaaaaaawwwwwwwd! ;) I've got one of my own. It involves a little container that's kept on the front counter at work, which contains pennies and some other loose change...one of the drivers was taking pennies out to use as change for the customers, and wasn't putting more pennies in to replace them. One of the bosses chewed him out a bit, and of course, I had to jump into it: "So, I guess this is what they call...pennies envy?" ;)

Aaron: <<Never thought I'd see you look like a humanitarian.>> Uh...me, neither. It sure came as a shock... ;) And about Crzy...hmmm...well, I've seen her comment about Jericho before, but I didn't know she was the "head" of the fan club. *sighs* Well, I still stand by what I said. I'm sorry if this hurts her feelings, but I just say what I need to say. And the fact that there are women out there who drool over a character who has sex with his own mother absolutely disgusts me. It makes my skin crawl. It makes me want to run to the nearest toilet. If Crzy doesn't like me anymore because of this, what can I say except that I'm only being honest and speaking out against something I believe is wrong? With luck, maybe this will cause her to reevaluate her feelings about Jericho. And if not...well, I tried.

Gunjack: Thanks. :)

Kitainia: Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. :) Yes, Jericho works well as a twisted villain, and the incest angle makes him more despicable than a "regular" villain would be. It's great as a plot device and character development, but the fact that certain people drool over this character, conveniently ignoring the most hideous parts of his personality, is simply _vile._ I certainly hope this snaps at least a few of his most rabid fans out of it. Thanks again. :)

Jar Jar in the next Star Wars movie: Oh gawd...well, the guy on my Revenge Page oughta be happy about that... ;)

SJ: Eh...Michael Jackson wants to play Poe?? Wrong, just plain wrong. An abomination. I mean, come on...Poe wasn't a black guy who turned white. ;) Hey, y'know, I'm suddenly having evil thoughts...Jericho and Michael Jackson would make a cute couple, wouldn't they? MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

JackaL: HEEEEEYYYYYYY! Welcome back! :D Don't stay away so long this time, 'k?

Kyryn: I'm glad Okami's grandmother is better. :)

And finally, Doug: I'm glad you're staying, bud. :D
Pistoff - [phred@koalas.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 01:55:42 AM
IP: wire-20.koalas.com

Hey all. I would like to announce that my band is going to throw a concert in downtown Carrollton on the 16th of December. It'd be cool if yall could make it. E-mail me if you have any questions or mail to: ogburrito@hotmail.com Other than that, there's nothing much to say. Right now, I'm just downloading a demo game from the BeastWars website. later..
JOE BOXER - [jboxer82@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 01:05:05 AM
IP: spider-th032.proxy.aol.com

I promise, last post of the evening...

Dang it, it took the near meltdown of the CR to get him back in here, but thank God, JACKAL'S BACK!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! ;)
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:50:38 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Jackal> **Pounce/Tackles/Hugs** We missed you! Where you been?!?

SJ> I swear too, but I keep it bleeped, just like the rules tell us to. I don't "think less of you" for swearing, but I'll certainly voice disapproval when people violate the rules of this room, whether it be swearing or flaming.

It doesn't mean I don't love ye, lad, or think any less of ye.

Night people.

Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:48:50 AM
IP: 141.133.150.161

Jenna> They were Looting your apartment complex?! Sheesh! Talk about insult to injury!

Jackal's Back! Yay! And yes, we've all done our share to start a little havoc around here. We can't be conformative tight-@$$es ALL of the time. ;)
Tim P.
Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:47:21 AM
IP: bn706-01.wsc.edu

****Kyryn peers into the room. She's got a pencil tucked behind one ear and a red pen in one hand*****

Hi all. I'm busy editing away.

Okami's grandmother is doing much better. Thanks for all the good wishes. She is going home from the hospital tomorrow and appears to be fully recovered.

Gargs next season> We're working on it and Timedancer and Pendragon.

Later All!

**Kyryn puts her editing hat on and disappears in a cloud of red ink and computer bits****
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:35:38 AM
IP: denm1-16.iglobal.net

Autumn> Welcome to the CR! :D Sorry about the...controversy...going on; we're usually a little more laid-back than this. As for the next season of Gargs...um, staff?

Jenna> <<Last night I think I saw some people looting the remains- man, I want out of this complex!!>> ACK! I hope you'll get that new place you applied for! o_o'

Gunjack> <<Where the has everyone been disappearing to? *lowers voice conspiritorialy* My guess is that they're being abducted by the Illuminati!>> <gasp> I never thought of that...Or maybe it's something even more sinister? Right off the top of my head I can think of several organizations who'd like nothing better than to see this place fall off the face of the earth...

Kitainia> <<The cause of his depression and mine we're still unsure about. Maybe it's just that we've been thinking too much about the world recently and that's contributed to a possible emotional burnout, to use the term Coyote recently did. Don't worry, everyone, we know this is only temporary, and can assure you of that.>> Whatever its cause, I'm very glad it's only temporary. :) There are advantages to disavowing any ties to RL...

Jewel> <<Guess who has a job interview? I swear--the day I posted my resume, I got a phone call from a headhunter. The next day I get two e-mails from headhunters, and ten minutes ago I got a call from a woman who needs tech support people, like, yesterday. I mean, second sentance out of her mouth was, "So, how much compensation are you looking for?" and then asked if I could come in tomorrow for an interview. Note: For any computer geeks looking for work, Atlanta is the place to be. Take my word on it...>> Congratulations! :D

Doug> <<I also want to express thanks to all the people in here who have been supporting me and telling me not to leave. I'm not going to. :)>> I'm very glad to hear it friend; here's hoping you come back soon. :)

Pogo> <<What's the word for a pact in which the last surviving member of the pact gets a (previously jointly-owned) item of property? This term was used in a "Simpsons" ep and I need that word! :)>> I remember that ep (but not the word; thanks Zath)! :D I think what I loved about it was the locking mechanism thingie, a version of which I have to incorporate in my fics somehow...

Marc> <<Star Wars web page has just released that Ahmed Best (aka Jar Jar) will be returning to Star Wars-Episode II.>> VOROX EXIM'HA ET MORIEX, CRUENTO PESTIS SHATRUEX JAR JAR!!!!!!!! <twitch> I'm OK. Really. <twitch twitch>

SJ> <<Have you heard the latest stink out of Hollywood? Michael Jackson wants to make a movie called "The Nightmare of Poe". It's about the mysterious last few days of Poe's life (Poe, as you may or may not know, was found inexplicably in a coma one day and died a few days later). The reeeeeeally scary thing? I've heard Jackson wants to play Poe himself.>> I've officially had enough. It's time this man (?) dies. JOYRIDE!!!! <<Think of the worst thing Sevarius could do, and even that can't touch Mengele.>> Good point. Sevarius is simply uncaring, Mengele was pure evil.

Jackal> Dude, welcome back! :D We were afraid you'd been eaten or something. :P (Now if only the other inexplicably absent posters would return...)
Wilek Nereus
Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:07:46 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

YaY!!!
The CR rules are comin down and I have nothing to do with it!!! YaY!!!
I mean..., that's bad... Bad!

Oh..., Hey everyone!!! Sorry I haven't been around.., but anyway...

Yall see buffy?!? That was some sad sh*t! I cryed... really I did.., but then maybe it was the drugs I took. ?? :o)
I'm not gonna go back and read everything I don't have the time..., oh and to whoever did the jar jar "don't kill me thing".
Jar Jar would say, "Mesa no wanten crunchin."
Don't ask how i know that... so! Talk to yall laters!!!


JackaL - [Jackal1127@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:03:24 AM
IP: spider-we073.proxy.aol.com

Typos, typos, spellcheck shall be the death of me. That Poe comment title should have read "If Edgar Allen Poe weren't DEAD", not "if Edgar Allen Poe weren't Poe." I'm sure lots of other typos were present, but that was perhaps the most glaring.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:56:52 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Wow... still alot going on in the CR. ::shrugs:: I thought about replying to some of these posts, but then I just figured (no, not that it wouldn't be a waste of time)that my words would only cause more trouble.
Anyway, I'm not going to go on and on with this, onto other stuff!

Autumn- Welcome to the CR! ::gives a box of candy::

School problems> Well thank God I'm in one piece, after having a long talk with my Mom, she decided to take me to work with her. (sorry GB! this must be such a bore for you to hear this again) I'm really glad that she took me because later I found out that the school was swarmed in police and FBI agents. The letter itself was sent by mail so that's why they were involved. My friend said it was very eerie and distracting. Gosh, what has the world come to.. sometimes I just can't understand why anyone would want to play games like this.

Hmm.. well, that's about all I have to say right now Rookery sibs. (sorry if my posts seem redundant) Pleasent dreams!
Bronx - [Bronx Wyvern4@aol.com]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:55:20 PM
IP: spider-wg033.proxy.aol.com

***BEGIN RP***
Kari looked at Corrie expectantly. "Is...is he going to be okay?"
The Wookie took a moment to study her equipment before speaking. <<Yes, I believe so. His condition seems to have stabilized. Still, even with Borg technology aiding his recovery, it will still be some time before he is up and around again.>>
"That's okay," Kari said, wiping the tears from her face with one hand, and holding SJ's limp hand with her other. "I'll stay with him."
She felt a hand on hers and realized it was Anton's. "I will stay as well," the mad scientist said. "After all that I have done to...to put him in this situation, the least I can do is remain by his side."
***PAUSE RP***

Well, I've certainly added fuel to the fire so to speak. First let me begin with a remark about my swearing, cause that seemed to have offended some people in here. I'm sorry that it did so.
I will not, however, apologize for those words. Let me explain: this may lessen your opinion of me (that is, believing you have a high opinion of me to begin with), but the swearing? That's me. To be honest with you, when I get emotional and passionate about something, especially when I get angry about something, I curse. It's a nasty habit and a personal fault, I know, but it's one that is mine. It's me. You may or may not believe it, but in RL I'm actually a fairly soft-spoken guy. I'm almost downright shy. But when I am passionate about something, I get animated, and when I really feel very strongly about something, it's easy for me to curse. If that makes anyone in here think less of me, I am sorry, but that is how I am. I have never made any claims to being very articulate or intelligent, so forgive my uncouth language.
That is why I cannot necessarily apologize for my language, because you see, that is who I *am*. I can't apologize because that is the kind of person I am. I may not necessarily apologize for cursing, but I do realize it wasn't necessarily appropriate and was perhaps a bit harsh I've had a bad week, it's quite true that I was more prone to make such an outburst. I can promise in the future that I will attempt to refrain from using such harsh language outright, or certainly not without a veil of protection (the ever popular "****"). Again, I'm sorry if my language offended some of you, but as you probably know by now, I can be very emotional, and when that happens my mouth often wins the battle. It is a flaw, I know, but it is, for good or bad, a part of my personality.

I would personally wish to thank Jewel for her comments. They inspired me, and let me know that someone out there understands. Thanks, Jewel ;)

Doug: Yes, I understood your post cause frankly, it's how I've felt before too, in my darker moments. Just realize, as depressed as you may be, we've all been there at one time or another, so we can relate. And we are more than willing to give you our time and love to help you through it all. You're lucky you have someone like Kit--or Lisa if you want--to give you some hands-on support. :)

Aris: Don't exacerbate the problem. Doug made his comments, apologized for them, and let's let it end there. Don't start things up again by having him try to explain his remarks.

Jenna: Wow, a fire that big? Man...well, I'll be praying that you and Mike get that new apartment. That complex you are currently in now sounds dangerous...I hope you'll be able to move out soon.

Star Wars News: Well, after feeling numb for the last few minutes upon hearing of the continuting torture that is Jar Jar Binks, I did get some good news about Star Wars....in the books and comics (which, with the exception of killing of Chewie, I think are still largely free from the now-tainted hand of Mr. Lucas) Luke is FINALLY going to marry Mara Jade! What took them so long? I've been waiting most of the 90s to see those too hook up together! And finally, Luke actually gets some. It's about time he stopped being the bachelor of the bunch. ;)

If Edgar Allen Poe weren't Poe, he'd kill himself: Have you heard the latest stink out of Hollywood? Michael Jackson wants to make a movie called "The Nightmare of Poe". It's about the mysterious last few days of Poe's life (Poe, as you may or may not know, was found inexplicably in a coma one day and died a few days later). The reeeeeeally scary thing? I've heard Jackson wants to play Poe himself. I'm currently rethinking my belief that Armageddon is *not* around the corner....

Mengele: Oh yeah, all talk about Hitler aside, this guy was probably the worst piece of trash this century has ever seen. I'm serious, he was a literal waste of skin. Most of you do not live in the Washington D.C. area, so you may not have seen the Holocaust Museum. If you're ever in these parts, you must go see it--nothing will so touch your soul as this museum. It will literally get inside you. I went there one morning on a class field trip, and it just completely drained me emotionally and psychologically. You will never know the exact meaning of "Never Again" until you witness the atrocities committed by the Nazis. One exhibit was set aside to show Mengele's "experiments"; it was shown on a tv screen set inside a box, with the box too high off the ground for young children to peer over the lid to see inside. I have never witnessed more horrific deeds in the name of medicine or science EVER. Think of the worst thing Sevarius could do, and even that can't touch Mengele.

***SOUTH PARK COMMENTS***
Ironic that we were just talking about homeschooling vs. public schooling when the theme of this week's South Park was just that. I must say, it was pretty funny, but personally, if I was that poor homeschooled boy....I don't know how thrilled I would be to be socialized into the SOUTH PARK elementary school. Any other public school, maybe, but South Park? That's gotta be enough to send you into that house for the rest of your academic career! ;)
***END SP TALK***

***RESUME RP***
Back in Hell....

"Whoa, whoa, whoa!" SJ exclaimed. "Let me get this straight--I'm alive?"
Mephisto smiled cruelly. "Of course you are."
"But...but I'm in Hell!"
"Well, yes, your spirit is. But your body is still alive back on Earth."
"Is...is that possible? Can someone really live without a soul?"
"Oh yes, all the time. For example, those executives who canceled Gargoyles."
SJ nodded solemnly. "Well...good point."
"But I never said your body was currently soul-less."
SJ's eyes narrowed. "...please tell me you aren't implying what I think you are. Are you saying....my body isn't empty???"
Mephisto laughed raucously. "Oh, hardly, my boy. Hardly."
***END RP FOR NOW!***
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:51:53 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Sorry about yet another double post, but I came acorss something while surfing salon.com. Not to revisit the brouhaha of the last few days over Hitler, but here's a review of the book "Explaining Hitler," which looked at all the different explainations of "What made Hitler *Hitler*." This review gives a quickie overview of many of the theories Rosenbaum looked at. Click on my name, and here's the URL:
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/1998/06/cov_30feature.html
I freely admit I'm plugging the book; even if I wasn't fascinated by the subject, I would have liked it--it really makes you think. And it's actually written in *English*, not academia-ese like most of the books out there written by over-educated Foucault-worshipping navel-gazers (and I wondered why the history profs disliked me so intently...).

trent: Only *splat* for Jar Jar? I wanna see this guy roasted alive over an open spit, and I'll leave for your imaginations just where that stick he'll be turning on should be...
jewel
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:45:55 PM
IP: abd141ab.ipt.aol.com

Jar Jar: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! <twitch, twitch, twitch>

OK, random question: Do any of y'all speak Japanese? One of my characters is going to blow up and go into Japanese--a language I don't speak beyond the standard "yes," "no," "thank you," "hello," "good-bye," and "I don't understand". Bleh. Anyway, how does one say, "I am ___, daughter of ___, granddaughter of ____--the son of ___ and ____! I will not be spoken to like that, least of all by pathetic little wannabe-demon such as *you*!"

jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:03:13 PM
IP: abd141ab.ipt.aol.com

marc> That could mean we get to see Jar Jar die...

"Me-sa no wanna be a dyin'! Me-sa too marketa-" *splat!*
evil, naughty trent
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 09:53:52 PM
IP: 147.226.219.226

TONTINE. Thanks to all who responded about that so quickly.

Coyote> yeah, that's the ep (Simpsons)!!
Pogo
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 09:35:13 PM
IP: fwnt.dorseylaw.com

the word is tontine (sp?, pronounced tahn-teen)
shogun raptor
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 09:10:33 PM
IP: mia1-wc2.atlas.digex.net

Everyone-Bad news. Star Wars web page has just released that Ahmed Best (aka Jar Jar) will be returning to Star Wars-Episode II.
marc
IL
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 09:06:06 PM
IP: farm1-cache1.gw.uiuc.edu

Pogo> Zath got it right in one. It is a tontine.
taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 08:37:33 PM
IP: ced60-112.ced.csupomona.edu

I don't understand it. I gave you people all a friendly warning two days
ago. I was in here briefly earlier and decided it was not worth my time to
repost the CR rules or clarify anything, thinking that this would have blown
over by now as it usually does. And for a moment, I almost believed that
this was the case. Then, I came in here, not really in a good mood because I
didn't get to see the Pokemon movie today like planned, but was really ticked
off by one poster who used swear words for absolutley no reason. So, as
great a waste of my time as this is, it looks like it needs to be done. I am
going to repost the CR rules, and I may need to make an addendum or two.
Honestly, you people dissapoint me right now. I thought I would not need to
repost these for some time, if ever again, and yet, a scant two months after
the last time I posted them... (And I know it was two months ago because I
had to waste my time to check.)

-Everything is welcome here to be posted except pornography, pornographic
links, useless spam, viruses, and flames to another person (which would start
huge flame wars). Breaking this important law the first time warrants a
warning from me. A second time this law is broken by the same person, I will
give a severe warning, announcing to the room that the law breaker is in
danger of being banned unless they appologize. The third strike, and a
person is banned. The unbanning of said person can only be done directly by
me and it's gonna take a lot for that happen. But it takes a lot to tick me
off in the first place, let alone merit banning.

-Role Playing (RP) or any variation therof is allowed in here without only a
couple restrictions. The RPing MUST be accompanied with text about something
else NOT related to RP. Preferably, at least half of a post should be topic
related, and no more than half should be RP, but there is quite a bit of
leniancy in this as I see fit. The other restriction is that it does not
involve gratuitous descriptions of sex (i.e.- you can have Demona shoot
someone's head and play strip poker but you can't be descriptive about it.)

-Anytime RPing is done, it must be accompanied by a header and an ending
indicating that RPing is being done. This header and ending is to be done in
all caps, accompanies by asteriks, and double spaced.

-Anytime spoilers for ANYTHING, be it movie, comic, TGS or fanfic, it must
also be accompanied by heading and ending warnings done in all caps and
accompanied by asteriks. Exceptions will apply with age and total group
familiarity.

-All comment room pictures can be used by anyone posting except one pic:
DumlaoX. That is the CR Administrator's personal pic and used only when the
CR Adminstrator posts. However, chivalrous responses are expected to anyone
who claims a picture as theirs, as some people do tend to have a personal
claim to a pic. This has not been a problem as of yet, but I'm insuring
against future cases.

-This is a PG room. For a while a PG-13 rating was allowed as all posters
were thought mature enough to handle such a level. Recently, not only has it
been shown that there *ARE* younger readers in the CR, and overall room
maturity has not been at all appropriate. As such, the rating has been
revoked back to PG. This means no cussing or overly zealous sexual content.
If you feel the need to express anything with more mature content than
that, there IS an adults only comment room.
Robby, the CR Administrator - [MrNoying@aol.com]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 08:24:24 PM
IP: zzz-209252248093.splitrock.net

Doug: Glad to see you're stickin' around. Hang loose and stay frosty, bro.

Kitainia: Hope ye don't mind, but I want to get in a review of this movie ...

**SPOILERS FOR "POKEMON" AHEAD, AVERT YER EYES IF YOU DON'T WANT 'EM!**

Okay, all of you that were afraid of something on the level of the Barney or Elmo movies ... fear not. This movie was definitely not as juvenile as you might expect. I mean, only in Japan would they produce a feature film based on a children's TV series that comes thisclose to *killing off the leading man* (trust me folks, Ash is up to his arse in serious trouble in this 'un), not to mention the kind of death and destruction handed out in *the first five minutes* by Mewtwo (and believe me ... people *do* die in this movie). As far as the preceding short, "Pikachu's Vacation," it's kind of interesting to see the Pokemon in an environment with no trainers ... for that matter, nobody who even speaks English (with the sole exception of ... natch ... Meowth), but it is kind of directed toward the littler ones. And the film itself was kind of marred by a short bit near the end which projected vibes like an anti-prejudice PSA ... but thankfully the preaching was short. Most of it, indeed, was Pokemon whaling on each other ... but it had a much deeper plot than most "children's" movies that I've seen.
Incidentally, I should mention this ... one of the previews that came with it for me was for Dreamworks' new traditional animated feature, "The Road to El Dorado." Another one that looks like a winner ... plus you get to hear Kevin Kline go "Ohhhhhhhhhhh ... ship!" :)

**END SPOILERS FOR "POKEMON!!"**

Spike: Nice picture ... but you're right, during the day you *would* need cushions ... and Spike must have the patience of Job. I can just imagine what would happen if someone tried that with any of my original characters ... **suddenly gets images of poor Vinnie getting mauled by Rosanna** ;)

As for my reaction to the recent almost-flame-war ... **reaches into his once-again-obscenely deep pockets and pulls out his handy-dandy thermal foam fire extinguisher, spraying every surface of the room and every person within it**
There. That should take care of it.

Upcoming movie advisory: Folks, watch out for a film coming early next year titled "Pitch Black." Four stars in it, three of which are unknown, at least to me, but the fourth you'll definitely recognize ... that's right ... our guy Keith David is in this movie. :)
(The other three, incidentally, might be known to others ... Vin Diesel, Radha Mitchell and Cole Hauser)

Jenna: Buena suerte, amiga. **hugs**

Pogo: I remember the ep, but for the life of me I can't remember the damned word! (This *is* the Hellfish ep with Abe Simpson, if I'm not mistaken, correct?)
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 07:34:40 PM
IP: zzz-209252248093.splitrock.net

Pogo> I think it's a tontine

real post later...
Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 07:33:21 PM
IP: ppp-229-244.usc.edu

VOCABULARY WHIZ FOLKS> What's the word for a pact in which the last surviving member of the pact gets a (previously jointly-owned) item of property?

This term was used in a "Simpsons" ep and I need that word! :)
Pogo
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 07:14:37 PM
IP: fwnt.dorseylaw.com

Stormy- whoops sorry. This funky board is tough on my simpleton mind.
marc - [dadigan@uiuc.edu]
IL
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 07:06:05 PM
IP: farm1-cache1.gw.uiuc.edu

Marc: You got the wrong person...I know zilch about Apes of any sort! I think ye got me mixed up with another poster, me son! :-)
Stormy
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:48:26 PM
IP: pc20.huron.uwo.ca

One more thing.

Tim P.: I'll tell you what I'm going to say. Bravo! More people need to listen to words like yours.
Doug
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:31:16 PM
IP: pool-209-138-62-205.dlls.grid.net

Aris: The answer is no. I thought I made that clear to you. Now kindly leave me alone. I don't care what you think of my viewpoint.

That's all I'll say for now, except I also want to express thanks to all the people in here who have been supporting me and telling me not to leave. I'm not going to. :) Like Kaioto, I want us all to be friends and a clan (except for one person, who can leave and never come back for all I care, by now I'm sure you all know who he is). Once again, I am sorry for offending people. I did not mean any of those statements I made, and I do not support mass killing or genocide (no matter what certain selfish idiots think). I was only blowing off steam, something I thought I could do in here. Hopefully next time (if there is one) it won't start a war like this. I also hope to see you all again soon. Stay friends.
Doug
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:29:10 PM
IP: pool-209-138-62-205.dlls.grid.net

<<<WARNING! POTENTIONALLY OFFENSIVE RANT AHEAD!>>>

I am not here to blow sunshine up anyones ass. Becuase I am cynical ,you will not like what I have to say. I am cynical, but I am fair. I am not here to take sides. I do not care about what you think about the language I use. I don't care how smart you THINK you are. I do not care
how nice you THINK you are. I do not care what race you are. I do not care what religion you’re in. I do not care who your ancestors were or what they went through. I do not care what income bracket you are in. I do not care how you are connected to TGS or the comment room. If you think my response is unbecoming of a TGS vistor, so be it. Because I am not here as a TGS visitor. At this moment, you WILL think of me as your fucking drill instructor!

Why is it that when somebody makes a few cynical comments, all these PC-holier-than-thou people start going ape-shit?
IT WAS JOKE! You don't need to be a shrink top know that! You paint people as something they are not. You Just wanna chance to put your two damn cents in, HUH?!

Why are people who always preach tolerance are so oftent intolerent themselves? Whenever someone makes a comment that is not of the social or political norm, people throw a fit, even though the comment was just a damn joke! You assume bigotry and disrimination were it doesn’t exist! You want people to act and think like you! You think it’s your way or the highway!

Then why do the assholes who make these comments put heir foot in their mouths and retract what they say. Then they go around kiss everones ass! It makes you look spineless and that all you wanted was to evoke a reaction.

So what are you going to say to me?! "Watch your language. Control your temper. Act more mature."? Bullshit! You can't do that yourselves!

So. What are your comments to me gonna be? Are you gonna call me an ASSHOLE? I know you want to! Or are you gonna go on with your new-age mumbo-jumbo?

What are you going to say? Will It solve anything?
Tim P.
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:27:51 PM
IP: bn706-01.wsc.edu

Jewel- that's awesome, congrads. ^_^

Drac- Hmmm- haven't heard that book, will look into it. I'm okay now, not as bad as I was before a few weeks ago. Thanks for thinking of me tho sweetie. ^_^
jenna
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:19:23 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Darn it, why does everyone post at the same bloody time?

Ironwolf> <<Aris Katsaris you have a real bad habit of posting/leaping before looking>> Umm, don't have the people in here (myself included) have that same problem...? ;)

Kitania: No prob. =)

Guess who has a job interview? I swear--the day I posted my resume, I got a phone call from a headhunter. The next day I get two e-mails from headhunters, and ten minutes ago I got a call from a woman who needs tech support people, like, yesterday. I mean, second sentance out of her mouth was, "So, how much compensation are you looking for?" and then asked if I could come in tomorrow for an interview. Note: For any computer geeks looking for work, Atlanta is the place to be. Take my word on it...

jewel - [Jewe.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:14:22 PM
IP: spider-ti052.proxy.aol.com

Hey, new kid's back. I have one question before a few comments. Are there any TGSers out there willing to listen to an outside source for a story idea?

Jenna-I've only been browsing the board for a week or so, but I'm sorry to hear about all your apartment problems. It's definitely sobering for someone like me whose biggest worries are their grades. BUt if you're ever feeling down, might I suggest taking a look at the book ANGELA'S ASHES. Its an incredible memoir, and really makes the problems americans had during the depression era seem petty compared to what this one kid went through in Ireland. I don't know, maybe I'm little biased about the therapeutic value of books.

Stormy- I agree that the Apes ending would have been cooler, but they probably didn't do it because it had already been done in Planet of the Apes. I still hate that part at the end where he points to his heart and stuff. Total corn. Other than that I think it's awesome and very imaginative.
Marc - [dadigan@uiuc.edu]
IL
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:09:21 PM
IP: farm1-cache1.gw.uiuc.edu

Gunjack Valentine: Alas, Mengele did *not* get what he deserved. From what is now accepted, he escaped germany before at the end of the war, before the Allies really knew who he was. He fled to Argentina, where he lived out a cushy life, and died there (I believe from an accident of some sort, in the mid-1980's). There is still a mystery as to whether or not hes really dead, since his children in Germnay won't give anyone a DNA sample to test against the bones in Argentina.
jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:06:31 PM
IP: spider-ti052.proxy.aol.com

Gunjack> <<No effort was made to determine what was solid belief and what was invective.>>

Okay, since many will consider me to have started this (and this is one case where I'll be proud to be so considered) let me make a further effort to "determine" it:

Doug, please tell us all, do you (for the sake of the remaining survivors) hope for a war, yes or no? One word will suffice.

(And Toku, please don't assume that he doesn't hope for one - his email in my Inbox tells me something far different)

Ironwolf> <<Aris Katsaris you have a real bad habit of posting/leaping before looking>>

Sometimes. I'm still sorry about the time where I attacked *you* because of that stupid misunderstanding (though I still think you were far more rude in your own response than warranted). But I'm not sorry this time. Not by far.
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:06:06 PM
IP: athe530-d067.otenet.gr

Darn sensitive submit button! Sorry about the double post.
Kit
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:03:06 PM
IP: pool-209-138-62-205.dlls.grid.net

**RP HERE**

Asil and Storm Eagle roar down the Los Angeles freeway in their stolen Batmobile, both firing off spells and BFG blasts at the pursuing police (Note- Asil is shooting over her shoulder and steering with her tail). The Dirty Laundry Gang follows them in their laundry truck, police bullets bouncing off the armored sides as they try to keep up. "You aren't taking us down, pigs!" Static Cling leans out of the passenger window and shouts, flinging bolts of electricity to short out the police cars' transmissions. This move is successful and the cars soon become obstructions for their fellow police cars to smash into and a huge police car pileup has blocked the entire freeway. Other LAPD squad cars that get too close to the back of the laundry truck have their windshields sprayed by a laughing Staina (who's standing in the open left back door) with view-obstructing foam. Socko, Scrubber, and Bleach Man cheer as each cop car veers off and crashes, occassionally lobbing grenades to aid in the action. Al Detergent meanwhile rolls his eyes and Nylon Man looks worried while Lint Man keeps driving emotionlessly. "We're beating them!" Storm Eagle shouts jubilantly as she knocks two cops screaming out of their car with a fireball to the engine and citizen drivers all around continue to flee. "There's still too many!" Asil says. "Hang on, I've got an idea!" With that she veers off the main freeway and onto a new partially constructed overpass. "Um, new boss lady," Nylon Man moans, leaning out of the laundry truck's back window, "that section freeway isn't finished!" "I know," Asil growls. "Just follow my lead!" She then floors the pedal of the Batmobile and jumps a large gap in the road ahead. The Dirty Laundry Gang scream as Lint Man makes the leap after her, barely crashing down just behind the Batmobile as they both zip onwards. Five police cars try to follow, but only two make it. The laughing and cheering Static quickly disables one with a lightning bolt and Scrubber blows up the other with a thrown grenade. "We're home free!" Storm Eagle whoops. "Not quite yet," Asil shakes her head, pointing at an LAPD helicopter rising up from below the overpass in front of them. A sniper in the passenger bay takes aim at her but Kit's evil clone fires faster and hits the chopper in the tail, causing it to veer off balance and flip over. The cops inside are barely able to parachute out in time. "Now we're free," Asil corrects. The Dirty Laundry Gang sighs in relief behind her. "We need to find a place to hide out though!" Detergent shouts as they come alongside. "There's an old hotel I know downtown, let's go there!" "Fine!" Asil agrees, taking the next exit. Behind them, a police lieutenant shakes his head as he watches the escape and calls for backup. The chase may not be over just yet.

**END RP FIRST HALF**

Hi. Is everyone having a good week so far? As Doug's rant may have made clear, we haven't exactly been enjoying one. :( No, it's not due to grades as some have speculated, our recent grades have been good. The cause of his depression and mine we're still unsure about. Maybe it's just that we've been thinking too much about the world recently and that's contributed to a possible emotional burnout, to use the term Coyote recently did. Don't worry, everyone, we know this is only temporary, and can assure you of that. Thanks to all who have supported Doug in this, we're both grateful to you. Especially Kaioto, Pistoff, SJ, and all who sent e-mail. Glad most of you understood the rant. :) That's all I'll say about this, on to replies.

Mandi: Congrats getting through with your play and making it a success. I'm sure it was a very enjoyable experience. :)

Hitler: I agree with most people in here about him. The man was an evil guy who did evil things, and the fact that he may have had some good qualities does not excuse that. Nor does the fact that several of his followers were more evil by comparison. Hitler was the one who brought them to power, and it was his ideology and leadership that helped inspire all their deeds. It is a truth of history, and I do not like that it is being disputed so much today. :( Like Airwalker, I come from a Jewish family that has Holocaust-surviving relations, but even if I didn't I would still not like all the terrible things Hitler did to people. Who cared whether he liked dogs, was a vegatarian, or had the people's will in mind? The man was an insane evil a-hole, and I hope that right now he is burning in hell.
On a related note, I am also disturbed by the evidence today that shows we may not have learned the lessons Hitler's existence should have taught us. The main reason he caused so many problems, I think, was that the world allowed him to stay in power too long. Like Green Baron said, they didn't take him seriously until it was too late. Today there are still many dictators who are very Hitler-like and we allow them to stick around, oppressing and harrassing their people. It's horrible, and I hope it doesn't take another world war for their reigns of terror to be stopped.

Dark City: I liked that movie a lot too. Thought it had excellent character scenes and development (much better than I've seen in similar films such as Strange Days). Great plot and acting as well, despite some bits of the former being contrived. Truly one of '98's best films overall. For a full review, check the CR archives.

SJ: Yep, Action's canceled. <sighs> I'll miss it. The worst part of this happening is that I had to read about it in the paper. The station didn't tell the viewers what it had done. Come to think of it, they never do that. Instead we have to find out through other sources. I wonder why. Maybe they're scared of fan backlash? (Considering some of the awful shows they put in to replace what they cancel, I wouldn't be surprised.)

Re Pokemon: I too do not think is killing animation. On the contrary, I consider it one of the best animated shows on network TV right now. I hope that it will help open the door for more of the excellent animated products Japan has turned out over the years. Yes, I do agree that its characters and plots can often seem unintelligent and contrived, but they are nevertheless enjoyable and almost always have some good point or moral to them. (At least Doug and I think so.) True, Pokemon is not as good as Gargoyles was, or as good as Big Guy and Rusty, Tick, Freakazoid, or any of the other classic American cartoons of the past. But it is still a good show in and of itself. Like Doug said, the fad surrounding it will end soon (and hopefully not go on like Power Rangers is). Hope that it leaves animation better off when it goes. <fingers crossed>

On a related topic, Doug and I will go see the Pokemon movie tomorrow (possible review this weekend). Hope it lives up to the hype (the paper gave it a good review today, so it's possible :). As mentioned previosuly, we also plan to see Princess Mononoke on Thanksgiving with our parents. However, I've learned some good news recently that may enable us to see it sooner. In the Minneapolis/St. Paul area this week, they have released Princess Mononoke in several theaters. If it does well in that area, they're planning to let it go wide-release. So if you live in that area, and want to help ensure that lots of other people go see Mononoke, the best thing you can do is go see it yourself. I pray that lots of people do so and the movie succeeds. :)

**SPOILERS FOR DRAGON'S STONE**

Enjoyed the new Dark Ages a lot, even though I agree that the Archmage doesn't make that great a villain. Nevertheless his character development on this story was enjoyable, as was that of the clan's. Also liked the plot and its history of Wyvern elements. The three Chulthu-like demons made very menacing and mysterious antagonists, and the clan's reaction to them as well as the Illuminati tie-in at the end were both well-thought-out, interesting, and realistic things to have occur. The pictures were great too, especially the second one. Kudos on your work, Todd and Jessica. Keep it up, TGS Staff.

**SPOILERS END**

Welcome all newcomers! Welcome back Baby Fey and thanks for the good quote. Welcome back also to Lady Mystic, glad that your life is perking up. :) My prayers to you on the situation with your sister, to Jenna on finding a new apartment, and to all other people who might need praying for in here.

Public School: I agree with what most people have said, it can be terrible. Having gone to one myself, I know that all too well. :) However, people can also come out of public school just fine. I know many who are evidence of this. Private schools do usually have better curriculums, but people in them can also follow Kaioto's list of commandments. Their cliques can be just as bad as the public schools', if not worse (I know people who have come out of them emotionally broken down as well as feeling satisfied and successful). Home schooling has its good points and bad points as well. On the one side, there's usually no cliques and peer pressure to worry about, but on the other you have less interesting curricula and almost no chance to make friendships with other people your age (so you miss out on a lot of life). Which is the best of the three? I don't know. If I had to choose it would probably be private due to the better teaching and curriculum. It still has some bad points of course, but in this life one has to take the bad with the good. :) It's often true, too, that only if they can appreciate the latter and deal with the former while not letting it get them down can they be satisfied with life. This is of course hard to do in any school situation with the kind of stuff people are put through. <sighs> I wish luck in doing it to everyone in here who's going through school now. Another part of the solution is of course parental, and SJ's already made very good suggestions for that. <grins in thanks>

SOROW: re- animal murders- <shakes head> Terrible. What kind of people would do something like that. It makes me want to throw up. Hope the ones still at large are caught soon and that they all get an appropriate punishment. :)

David G: I've been looking to Freelance 4 also, but I understand why you're taking hiatius. Good luck on the novel, hope to read it and the story someday soon.

Overpopulation: Don't really have an opinion on this that someone hasn't voiced already (and even if I did, I probably wouldn't say it because I don't want to contribute to the flame war :). I do agree that it is a problem, and across the board birth control is probably the best solution available for it at this time. Green Baron also made a few interesting suggestions, which I support in theory but not in practice. (I would never let such things as castrating deadbeat dads be done, though I agree they are terrible people. I'm against cruel and unusual punishment like that.) I too am saddened when I see large and growing families, as Christine and Jannie have mentioned, despite the fact that it is good to bring life into the world. <sighs> Doug and I have already decided to have no more than two children when we get to the stage of our life where it's doable. Some people would like for us to have more (such as my mother) but even they agree that the responsibility of two is quite enough. Like David G said, taking responsibility for one's actions may very well be the solution to a lot of problems in this world. :)

Buffy and Angel: What I thought of last night's eps has pretty much been said already. I enjoyed them like everyone else has. Buffy had good foreshadowing and great emotion (I feel really sad for Willow and Oz). Angel also had excellent character development (especially on Kate and Doyle), a good plot, and many nice comic bits that were refreshingly funny after the heart-wrenching breakup in the Buffy ep. Both episodes get a 9/10, hope the trend continues next week (it should in Buffy, what with Spike showing up again. Angel I'm not sure about yet, I hope for a good ep though).

Pistoff: Good rant against some people in the Jericho fan club. I like Jericho too, but more for the fact that Christine writes him as an interesting character and good villain than his looks. And said looks, though nice, are ignored by me due to the despicable parts of his personality (one of which you called attention to) which I dislike too much to fall for the guy. I too am sickened by people pining over him because of his physical qualities (though I have enjoyed the two Amazon Women stories Christine wrote). Hope your rant will cause a few of the more rabid ones to wise up. :)

Jewel: Thanks for the hilarious if stupid jokes. And again for your support of Doug in his current depression. Same once again to everyone else. :)

And I think that's about all I'm going to say in here for now. I'll see you again soon, everyone. Later!

**MORE RP, RETURNING TO THE AVATAR**

"SJ is dead?" Doug asks, grim horror growing in his eyes. "That's right," Tom nods, shaking his head sadly. "No!" Stephanie wails, pulling out a handkerchief and sobbing into it. "This shouldn't be happening! Part of the reason we fought down there was to save that guy." "War is hell," Keith sighs. "One of us had to die sooner or later." "Yeah," Jammer agrees angrily. "But now, like this, with him?" Tricia nods, also crying. "Kari must be feeling terrible." "And so must his father," Lathrop sighs heavily, taking off his glasses to wipe tears of his own. Shauna, Orion, Boris, Elena, and Tom nod in agreement. "SJ was a good man," Gubio speaks for all of them. "I'm going to mourn him terribly." "I am too," Shap says. "This is a sad day for us all, even though SJ is probably in Heaven now." "Yeah," Kit nods. "Where's his body, Tom? I..I want to see it." "It's in the infirmary," Tom says. "Come, I'll show you the way."

Just then Teri Laughton runs into the hangar looking jubilant. They all turn to her as she calls out, "Guys!" "What is it?" Doug asks. "You look happy." "Why shouldn't I be?" the foxwoman replies. "We beat the Phalanx!" "Yeah," Shauna agrees, "but didn't our pal SJ go to that big genetics lab in the sky because of them?" Teri shakes her head. "That's the good news! He was dead, but now he's alive again. It's like a miracle." "A miracle?" Orion frowns. "If it is, then praise Allah," says Erin. "It is good that a friend of ours has lived." "Yes," Doug agrees, his frown turning to a smile. The other Ravens nod in agreement, their expressions doing the same (though Orion still looks a little worried). "Let's go see him," Kit says. "We can do that, can't we?" "Of course," Teri nods. "That's why I came to tell you he was alright." The Ravens nod and follow her into the Avatar's halls.

**TO BE CONTINUED, END RP**
Kitainia
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:02:13 PM
IP: pool-209-138-62-205.dlls.grid.net

**RP HERE**

Asil and Storm Eagle roar down the Los Angeles freeway in their stolen Batmobile, both firing off spells and BFG blasts at the pursuing police (Note- Asil is shooting over her shoulder and steering with her tail). The Dirty Laundry Gang follows them in their laundry truck, police bullets bouncing off the armored sides as they try to keep up. "You aren't taking us down, pigs!" Static Cling leans out of the passenger window and shouts, flinging bolts of electricity to short out the police cars' transmissions. This move is successful and the cars soon become obstructions for their fellow police cars to smash into and a huge police car pileup has blocked the entire freeway. Other LAPD squad cars that get too close to the back of the laundry truck have their windshields sprayed by a laughing Staina (who's standing in the open left back door) with view-obstructing foam. Socko, Scrubber, and Bleach Man cheer as each cop car veers off and crashes, occassionally lobbing grenades to aid in the action. Al Detergent meanwhile rolls his eyes and Nylon Man looks worried while Lint Man keeps driving emotionlessly. "We're beating them!" Storm Eagle shouts jubilantly as she knocks two cops screaming out of their car with a fireball to the engine and citizen drivers all around continue to flee. "There's still too many!" Asil says. "Hang on, I've got an idea!" With that she veers off the main freeway and onto a new partially constructed overpass. "Um, new boss lady," Nylon Man moans, leaning out of the laundry truck's back window, "that section freeway isn't finished!" "I know," Asil growls. "Just follow my lead!" She then floors the pedal of the Batmobile and jumps a large gap in the road ahead. The Dirty Laundry Gang scream as Lint Man makes the leap after her, barely crashing down just behind the Batmobile as they both zip onwards. Five police cars try to follow, but only two make it. The laughing and cheering Static quickly disables one with a lightning bolt and Scrubber blows up the other with a thrown grenade. "We're home free!" Storm Eagle whoops. "Not quite yet," Asil shakes her head, pointing at an LAPD helicopter rising up from below the overpass in front of them. A sniper in the passenger bay takes aim at her but Kit's evil clone fires faster and hits the chopper in the tail, causing it to veer off balance and flip over. The cops inside are barely able to parachute out in time. "Now we're free," Asil corrects. The Dirty Laundry Gang sighs in relief behind her. "We need to find a place to hide out though!" Detergent shouts as they come alongside. "There's an old hotel I know downtown, let's go there!" "Fine!" Asil agrees, taking the next exit. Behind them, a police lieutenant shakes his head as he watches the escape and calls for backup. The chase may not be over just yet.

**END RP FIRST HALF**

Hi. Is everyone having a good week so far? As Doug's rant may have made clear, we haven't exactly been enjoying one. :( No, it's not due to grades as some have speculated, our recent grades have been good. The cause of his depression and mine we're still unsure about. Maybe it's just that we've been thinking too much about the world recently and that's contributed to a possible emotional burnout, to use the term Coyote recently did. Don't worry, everyone, we know this is only temporary, and can assure you of that. Thanks to all who have supported Doug in this, we're both grateful to you. Especially Kaioto, Pistoff, SJ, and all who sent e-mail. Glad most of you understood the rant. :) That's all I'll say about this, on to replies.

Mandi: Congrats getting through with your play and making it a success. I'm sure it was a very enjoyable experience. :)

Hitler: I agree with most people in here about him. The man was an evil guy who did evil things, and the fact that he may have had some good qualities does not excuse that. Nor does the fact that several of his followers were more evil by comparison. Hitler was the one who brought them to power, and it was his ideology and leadership that helped inspire all their deeds. It is a truth of history, and I do not like that it is being disputed so much today. :( Like Airwalker, I come from a Jewish family that has Holocaust-surviving relations, but even if I didn't I would still not like all the terrible things Hitler did to people. Who cared whether he liked dogs, was a vegatarian, or had the people's will in mind? The man was an insane evil a-hole, and I hope that right now he is burning in hell.
On a related note, I am also disturbed by the evidence today that shows we may not have learned the lessons Hitler's existence should have taught us. The main reason he caused so many problems, I think, was that the world allowed him to stay in power too long. Like Green Baron said, they didn't take him seriously until it was too late. Today there are still many dictators who are very Hitler-like and we allow them to stick around, oppressing and harrassing their people. It's horrible, and I hope it doesn't take another world war for their reigns of terror to be stopped.

Dark City: I liked that movie a lot too. Thought it had excellent character scenes and development (much better than I've seen in similar films such as Strange Days). Great plot and acting as well, despite some bits of the former being contrived. Truly one of '98's best films overall. For a full review, check the CR archives.

SJ: Yep, Action's canceled. <sighs> I'll miss it. The worst part of this happening is that I had to read about it in the paper. The station didn't tell the viewers what it had done. Come to think of it, they never do that. Instead we have to find out through other sources. I wonder why. Maybe they're scared of fan backlash? (Considering some of the awful shows they put in to replace what they cancel, I wouldn't be surprised.)

Re Pokemon: I too do not think is killing animation. On the contrary, I consider it one of the best animated shows on network TV right now. I hope that it will help open the door for more of the excellent animated products Japan has turned out over the years. Yes, I do agree that its characters and plots can often seem unintelligent and contrived, but they are nevertheless enjoyable and almost always have some good point or moral to them. (At least Doug and I think so.) True, Pokemon is not as good as Gargoyles was, or as good as Big Guy and Rusty, Tick, Freakazoid, or any of the other classic American cartoons of the past. But it is still a good show in and of itself. Like Doug said, the fad surrounding it will end soon (and hopefully not go on like Power Rangers is). Hope that it leaves animation better off when it goes. <fingers crossed>

On a related topic, Doug and I will go see the Pokemon movie tomorrow (possible review this weekend). Hope it lives up to the hype (the paper gave it a good review today, so it's possible :). As mentioned previosuly, we also plan to see Princess Mononoke on Thanksgiving with our parents. However, I've learned some good news recently that may enable us to see it sooner. In the Minneapolis/St. Paul area this week, they have released Princess Mononoke in several theaters. If it does well in that area, they're planning to let it go wide-release. So if you live in that area, and want to help ensure that lots of other people go see Mononoke, the best thing you can do is go see it yourself. I pray that lots of people do so and the movie succeeds. :)

**SPOILERS FOR DRAGON'S STONE**

Enjoyed the new Dark Ages a lot, even though I agree that the Archmage doesn't make that great a villain. Nevertheless his character development on this story was enjoyable, as was that of the clan's. Also liked the plot and its history of Wyvern elements. The three Chulthu-like demons made very menacing and mysterious antagonists, and the clan's reaction to them as well as the Illuminati tie-in at the end were both well-thought-out, interesting, and realistic things to have occur. The pictures were great too, especially the second one. Kudos on your work, Todd and Jessica. Keep it up, TGS Staff.

**SPOILERS END**

Welcome all newcomers! Welcome back Baby Fey and thanks for the good quote. Welcome back also to Lady Mystic, glad that your life is perking up. :) My prayers to you on the situation with your sister, to Jenna on finding a new apartment, and to all other people who might need praying for in here.

Public School: I agree with what most people have said, it can be terrible. Having gone to one myself, I know that all too well. :) However, people can also come out of public school just fine. I know many who are evidence of this. Private schools do usually have better curriculums, but people in them can also follow Kaioto's list of commandments. Their cliques can be just as bad as the public schools', if not worse (I know people who have come out of them emotionally broken down as well as feeling satisfied and successful). Home schooling has its good points and bad points as well. On the one side, there's usually no cliques and peer pressure to worry about, but on the other you have less interesting curricula and almost no chance to make friendships with other people your age (so you miss out on a lot of life). Which is the best of the three? I don't know. If I had to choose it would probably be private due to the better teaching and curriculum. It still has some bad points of course, but in this life one has to take the bad with the good. :) It's often true, too, that only if they can appreciate the latter and deal with the former while not letting it get them down can they be satisfied with life. This is of course hard to do in any school situation with the kind of stuff people are put through. <sighs> I wish luck in doing it to everyone in here who's going through school now. Another part of the solution is of course parental, and SJ's already made very good suggestions for that. <grins in thanks>

SOROW: re- animal murders- <shakes head> Terrible. What kind of people would do something like that. It makes me want to throw up. Hope the ones still at large are caught soon and that they all get an appropriate punishment. :)

David G: I've been looking to Freelance 4 also, but I understand why you're taking hiatius. Good luck on the novel, hope to read it and the story someday soon.

Overpopulation: Don't really have an opinion on this that someone hasn't voiced already (and even if I did, I probably wouldn't say it because I don't want to contribute to the flame war :). I do agree that it is a problem, and across the board birth control is probably the best solution available for it at this time. Green Baron also made a few interesting suggestions, which I support in theory but not in practice. (I would never let such things as castrating deadbeat dads be done, though I agree they are terrible people. I'm against cruel and unusual punishment like that.) I too am saddened when I see large and growing families, as Christine and Jannie have mentioned, despite the fact that it is good to bring life into the world. <sighs> Doug and I have already decided to have no more than two children when we get to the stage of our life where it's doable. Some people would like for us to have more (such as my mother) but even they agree that the responsibility of two is quite enough. Like David G said, taking responsibility for one's actions may very well be the solution to a lot of problems in this world. :)

Buffy and Angel: What I thought of last night's eps has pretty much been said already. I enjoyed them like everyone else has. Buffy had good foreshadowing and great emotion (I feel really sad for Willow and Oz). Angel also had excellent character development (especially on Kate and Doyle), a good plot, and many nice comic bits that were refreshingly funny after the heart-wrenching breakup in the Buffy ep. Both episodes get a 9/10, hope the trend continues next week (it should in Buffy, what with Spike showing up again. Angel I'm not sure about yet, I hope for a good ep though).

Pistoff: Good rant against some people in the Jericho fan club. I like Jericho too, but more for the fact that Christine writes him as an interesting character and good villain than his looks. And said looks, though nice, are ignored by me due to the despicable parts of his personality (one of which you called attention to) which I dislike too much to fall for the guy. I too am sickened by people pining over him because of his physical qualities (though I have enjoyed the two Amazon Women stories Christine wrote). Hope your rant will cause a few of the more rabid ones to wise up. :)

Jewel: Thanks for the hilarious if stupid jokes. And again for your support of Doug in his current depression. Same once again to everyone else. :)

And I think that's about all I'm going to say in here for now. I'll see you again soon, everyone. Later!

**MORE RP, RETURNING TO THE AVATAR**

"SJ is dead?" Doug asks, grim horror growing in his eyes. "That's right," Tom nods, shaking his head sadly. "No!" Stephanie wails, pulling out a handkerchief and sobbing into it. "This shouldn't be happening! Part of the reason we fought down there was to save that guy." "War is hell," Keith sighs. "One of us had to die sooner or later." "Yeah," Jammer agrees angrily. "But now, like this, with him?" Tricia nods, also crying. "Kari must be feeling terrible." "And so must his father," Lathrop sighs heavily, taking off his glasses to wipe tears of his own. Shauna, Orion, Boris, Elena, and Tom nod in agreement. "SJ was a good man," Gubio speaks for all of them. "I'm going to mourn him terribly." "I am too," Shap says. "This is a sad day for us all, even though SJ is probably in Heaven now." "Yeah," Kit nods. "Where's his body, Tom? I..I want to see it." "It's in the infirmary," Tom says. "Come, I'll show you the way."

Just then Teri Laughton runs into the hangar looking jubilant. They all turn to her as she calls out, "Guys!" "What is it?" Doug asks. "You look happy." "Why shouldn't I be?" the foxwoman replies. "We beat the Phalanx!" "Yeah," Shauna agrees, "but didn't our pal SJ go to that big genetics lab in the sky because of them?" Teri shakes her head. "That's the good news! He was dead, but now he's alive again. It's like a miracle." "A miracle?" Orion frowns. "If it is, then praise Allah," says Erin. "It is good that a friend of ours has lived." "Yes," Doug agrees, his frown turning to a smile. The other Ravens nod in agreement, their expressions doing the same (though Orion still looks a little worried). "Let's go see him," Kit says. "We can do that, can't we?" "Of course," Teri nods. "That's why I came to tell you he was alright." The Ravens nod and follow her into the Avatar's halls.

**TO BE CONTINUED, END RP**
Kitainia
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 06:01:40 PM
IP: pool-209-138-62-205.dlls.grid.net

Gunjack> (re starting last flamewar) Yup, you're right, and that's why I had to apologize last time -- came down to hard on someone in a rant. *nods* I was ashamed.
Pogo
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 05:48:51 PM
IP: fwnt.dorseylaw.com

So give three cheers, and one cheer more
For the well-bred captian of the Pinafore...

Heh! I stumbled across my brother's "Gilbert and Sullivan" cd... Great music!

*Valentine scans across the afternoon's posts and sighs*

Ugh. I got on the computer this morning to write a nice long post, spent two hours extemporating, and then got my thunder stolen by Kaito and GB. Kudos to both on their last posts, by the way. Maybe we can finally lay the mess to rest once and for all.

IMO, this whole mess is unpleasently familiar. Does anybody remember the last flamewar we had? It all started because one person came down too hard on the another OVER A RANT. No effort was made to determine what was solid belief and what was invective. Instead of simply disagreeing, the first person went on the offensive, and we ended up with several days worth of unpleasentness. (BTW, I hope that the people involved don't take this as an attack; I'm assuming that this is all in the past, and merely want to show a dangerous parralel.)

Jewell - Thanks for the history lessons, especially the background on Mengele. *Valentine starts stropping a skinning knife on his jacket sleeve* Sounds like the kind of guy I'd like to catch up with in a dark alley someplace uncivilised...
Incidentally, where'd the freaker end up?

Christine - I keep seeing all these comments on "'Healing Hands". Where can I find it?

Pisstoff><<Now, I want to make note of something: I am not angry. This was not a shoot-from-the-hip post. I thought about this a long time before responding. I am just annoyed at your attitude, Kaioto--as if it's okay for you and Doug to say what's on your minds, but not those of us who don't agree. *shrugs* Interperet it as you see fit...>> Once more, gratz on not living up to your name. I don't think Kaito was trying to say that noone else could respond, just that we shouldn't respond by imediately ripping a chunk out of them. Personally, I agree with him.

Also, on the whole Joyride thing, I cant remember a single joyride that even came CLOSE to some of the DC deaths that have been posted. Personally, I'm hoping that both can escape being watered down, but I REALLY don't want some tender little kid reading some of the stuff I've seen (and done) in here...

Aaron><<Starsinger: If you're lurking, please come back.>> That's right! Where is she? Where the has everyone been disappearing to? *lowers voice conspiritorialy* My guess is that they're being abducted by the Illuminati!

Jenna><<I know what we have in America is far from perfect, but IMO if it feeds one person, it shouldn't be done away with>> The question usually isn't whether or not to feed one person, but if the WAY that we are feeding that one person could be reorginized to feed more.

Groaners - Ohhhhhhhh, the horror of being killed by a hail of cornballs... MUST HAVE MORE!

Kaito><<Yes, the image of Boba Fett laying the smack-down on Lexy-chan's deadbeat father makes me smile[.]>> Would you allow disintegrations? :) Also, good work on your posts today.

Warpmind><<As for your comments on swearing... well, there's another thing about effect... you don't always get the desired effect by stating that "fecal matter was intercepted by the ventilation system"... Still, foul language should not be used when other terms could have the same effect.>> I prefer "the fecal matter strikes the impeller" myself... <<Let me take a look at Jericho's background... Hmmm... Massive Oedipal Complex, multiple homicide,>> why do those two sound so funny when placed side by side?
Sorry about the seagull... If it's any consilation, you did the right thing.

Bronx><<Heh Anyway, this has been a stressful couple of days for me, because it appears that my school has been receving threats. It was sent via snail mail saying that if one of the girl swimmers on the team did not die then on Wednesday all of the school would suffer and die.>> Sounds like this poor sap has a simple case of Upper Vertabral Misaliagnment. All that needs to be done is to find him and twist his head around backward; after that, he shouldn't give you any more problems...

SJ - Excellent comments on Hitler!

Buffy Spoilers - Never seen the show, so when I saw SJ talking about Spike getting captured by the inquasition, I thought that the "Avery" stories were about to come to an abrupt end...

And with that odd note, I'm oughta here...
Gunjack Valentine
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 05:35:00 PM
IP: 1cust81.tnt5.dfw5.da.uu.net

Lordy, what a flame war. Gah.

jenna> Good luck on the apt application!
Pogo
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 05:03:22 PM
IP: fwnt.dorseylaw.com

Well, keep your talons crossed for us, and keep us in your prayers-- Mike and I put in an application for a nicer and cheaper apt today, and we'll know in 24 hours if we get it. I really want it- we did the number chruching, and if we get it, we'll save one month's entire paycheck over the next year!

Over 60 units were destoryed in the fire over here. Last night I think I saw some people looting the remains- man, I want out of this complex!!
jenna
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 03:46:31 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Green Baron- I wasn't offended, just kind of surprised. It didn't sound like you.--but that's all over with now, and don't worry about it any more-- HUGZ
jenna
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 03:29:19 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Well, I think it's time I explain myself. Many of the comments I made were wrong and inexcusable. My ideas for controlling overpopulation were by and large not ideas that I personally support. Many of them were silly, immoral, illegal, and a violation of my own beliefs. By and large, I should be more careful of what I say and how I say things. I do not in any way advocate sterilization as a means of population control, though I do not personally agree with my faith's satnce on it. In fact, if my religion didn't forbid it, I would have had myself sterilized years ago, or at least right before I get married. The suggestions were ways that woudl reduce teh population, and by and large, they are wrong, as I find most "solutions" to overpopulation. This is why I agree with rumors that Margaret Saenger had ties to the Nazi party, even though I do not have actual proof.

Now, to address a few people.

Aris> By and large, I have learned thatyou are very courageous. You do not let anything stop you from criticizing someone when you consider them to be dead wrong. Even when I do not agree with you or with your approach, I find your courage to be admirable. I do wish you'd have told me of previous tiems when my comments have upset you. I od not know what your personal opinion of me is, and I doubt it is a high one, but I don't blame you if you do have a low opinion of me.

There are a few comments yous aid that I wish to address

<<Though I'm not a socialist, I have to say that those "stupid social programs" have been to some extent a great benefit to them. In some Scandinavian countries 50% of children born by single mothers wouldn't be strange nor unacceptable - the mothers know they are going to have the state's support.>>
Considering what could have happened to thso echildren, I agree with you. The one downside to these programs is that Sweeden's National Debt equals it's Gross Domestic Product.
<<And crime rate is far, far lower in Europe than in America - European "social programs" just might have something to do with that too. The individual child is supposed to be a responsibility of the society here - not a responsibility of just one's parents.>>
In general, my feelings about social programs are in large part due to being a moderated Austrian Economist and a general lack of faith in the Government's ability to administer such help. By and large, social programs do appear good at first, but they have negative effects on teh country over the long run, like England before Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister, or Germany with an abundance of worker's benefits, but 20% unempoloyment. I can understand that these progarms do a lot of good, but they also do a lot of harm. I don't knwo your exact opinions and this could be due to different beleifs we may share about the Government's role in society as well as our own backgrounds and education. If you still regard me as an evil man, feel free to, because I nwo realize I am still an evil man.

Now, to answer some of your questions:

<<2. Raise retirement age to 80.

How will that curb overpopulation? >>

By and large this has to do with the US Social Security system. When it was started, the average lifesapn was 57 years and teh retiremnt age was 65. Now, the avergae life span is 76, so it would just seem in par to extend the retiremnt age. Also the elderly are living longer healthier lives and since Socila Security isn't privatized, we can't afford any other option :( I wish it was made a private investment program so we coudl have people retrie much earlier and many coudl devote time to humanitairan causes, like retired doctors who offer to treat uninsured working poor, like those mentioned in John Kasich's Courage is Contagious.

<<Ah, *castrating*. Not even sterilising. Way to go, man. *Way* to go! Obviously only the wealthy must be allowed to have children. Poor people having children must be destroyed, they must shudder before thinking to breed, before trying to destroy the class purity of the society. Castrating them will be for their own good.>>

Well, I have a more casual attitude about castration than most peopel do, In fact, I've though of doing it to myself more than once. Largely, the dead beat dads are not poor. They live quite nicely while their children and teh women they use are living in poverty. In fact, some of these fathers are in high society and would be very emberrassed if others knew how irresponsible they are. I find castration is the most effective method to keep them from having more kids that they refuse to take care of, and not just financially but emotionally. I admit castration is a bit harsh, but I really have no mercy for men who pull this kind of crap, including and especially my father.

As for the rich, I'd like a lot of them to not have children. Most children of wealth and power wind up being like Ted Kennedy and I'd rather see the ranks of our wealthy renewed with entrepeneurs, many of them born poor who accomplish great things, like Andrew Carnegie.

<<Does that imply that being a vegetarian is somehow morally superior to not being one? I can understand
(though disagree with) the other comments but how does being a vegetarian fit in among them?>>

It doesn't make someone a better person, but there is a rather twsited and ironic humour to think that someone who murdered twelve million people was a vegetarian and couldn't stand the sight of blood.

Jewel> I also want to thank you for reminding me that I must consider people when I suggest any changes, regardless of whetehr I mean them or not. Too often, I forget about indiviulas that can be affected. You remind me that I do have a heart and your examples helped to melt the ice covering that lump of coal.

David G.> I agree with what you said. I do feel social programs can be phased out, which is good, since they are menat to be temproary solutions, not permanent ones.

Hitler> It is the human aspects of this villain that makes him such a fascinating topic. By and large, i beleive he was evil, but like all evildoers, he is not soem killing machine. This is a man with thoughts and feelings and problems. In no way, should we ever excuse his actions ro teh actions of otehr monsters, but we must remember he was human like all of us, and there are others like him. Additionally, we shoudl take these people seriously. If Winston Churchill took the approach of Chamberlain, the movie Fatherland would be a documentary and not historical fiction. In fact, Churchill's knwoledge of Hitler form reading Mein Kampf allowed him to win the Battile of Britain.

When the English bases were being bombed by Germany, Churchill arranged for a squadron of planes to dromp a few bombs over Berlin. Hitler was so enraged, he demanded that his planes carpet bomb all of England not just the bases. Thsi allowed the RAF to rebuild and win. If not for that tactical move, Churchill woudl ahve had to surrender to Germany in a matter of months, and he knew it.

Stalin> Stalin and Hitler signed a non-agression pact, which was why he got caught off guard. Joe took a lesson from Churchill so when he learned about Barbarossa, he got Hitler to take Stalingrad and Rommell's Unit was defeated, becuase of a blunder prompted by getting Hitler's gander.

The reason he is not seen for the monster he was is because Stalin allied with us. If Henry Wallace were elected Preisdent in 1948, he'd have remained a US allay.

One thing we should eb thankful of during that time is while other countries fell to Hitler, Stalin, Peron, and Mussollini, we should consider ourselves lucky that FDR was our President. FDR may have been something of a dicator and his actions to the Japaneese is indefensible, but hwen you consider that Huey P. Long could have been Priesdent of the US (can we say American Soviet Socialist Republic?), we shoudl count our blessings that we did not fall to the rantings of a demagouge, but instead to a decent caring leader who may have bended the Constitution and is largely misunderstood by those who idolize him.

Yggdrasil> Outlawing them would be a bit too far, but my cousin used them becuase she could not have any other kids afetr her first son, and she miscarried and almost died form a staph infection. By and large, I think adoption shoudl be promoted, since it helps so many deserving children and it even has good Utilitarian values, though I am not a Utilitarian, but that still adds another plus to adoption.

Welfare> What I menat by wanting it ended is to end teh current system, not all forms of aid. Largely, children do not see any of teh ebnefits of welfare, which is why I want them removed from those families, not to be cruel, but because I find it wrong to subject children to that environment. I know we can't all find an army of Father Flannagans to take in all these children, but we need something better and these children deserve better. I support programs like WIC and Headstart, because these directly benefit dependent children. I also think more needs to be doen to help the working poor. On ebig problem with welfare is that resipients are discouraged from working and forced to remain in a vicious cycle of dependence where they stripped of their humanity, dignity, and citizenship. The problem with overhauling welfare is that soem people will be hurt especially in teh short run. Perhaps it si better for some to exeprience a littel pain in the short run, if there lives are better for it in the long run.

I know that many social programs were created with the best of intentions, but they are failing. We need to find better ways. Ways that help people instead of hurting them with our "compassion". We need to create opportunities, not gurantees.

I also apologize to everyone for comments that were upsettng and disturbing, and should never have been posted. I guess it proves that I still evil.

Jenna> I hope I didn't upset you by what I said. I apologize for that. I also beleive you have a right to your supplemental assistance, since you will make good use of it. I also hope you can find a better place. The thought of a country has no appeal to me, but maybe a nice condo in uptown Houston, until you can get that country house :)

Kaioto> Thank you fo rnot being too harsh with me. Perhaps you knew my comments were not serious. You are an understanding friend, and you are right, I do need to step into the light. As for the use of astericks in curse words, I though that was appropriate as a substitute.

Actually, I remember a story about that story of when they tried to stone Mary Magdalene. After he said his part and the people left, soem stones came flying by Mary Magdalene and Jesus said, "Aw, mom!! Cut it out." :)

Cherry Blossom> CYO means Catholic Youth Organization. It is largely a parish operated organization for younger Catholci to be invovled, make firends, and get dates in later years. I imagine your Church has a similar organziation within it.

Pistoff> Please don't be too harsh on Kaioto. I don't agree with his concerns about the Joyride or Capital Punishmnet, but I don't think he meant it to be a codemning attitude. I largely find the Joyride a good way to reduce stress and get a few chuckles. I guess Kaioto's not perfect :)

Warpmind> Congratulations on finding a new place.

Anne> Well, I realized my decision to become a priest was for the wrong reasons. I considered it more as an act of insecuirty fearing knwo one would marry me or I'd never get a good job (even with my Majors), so I thought of doing soemthing taht would mask my fears in a noble light. I've also always liked teh thought of being an ArchBishop, especially being called "Your Excellency" and being greeted by having people genuflect and kiss my ring. These were not the right reasons to be a preist. I would be serving myself and not God. Instead I plan to get amrried at 35 or later and after marriage, become a deacon. I am also the last male Forsyth of Nydrie and Tailzertoun, so if I became a priest, that line would die out, so instead I hope that some of my sons, grandsons, great-grandsons, etc. consider the priesthood. That's also a part of my dynasty project :)

I agree with you about Pentecostals. The Catholci Church does have a charismatic movement that woudl appeal in form to Pentecostals and I sugegsted that to Jessica as a compromise, which she found amusing. Well, this reminds me fo a joke:

How many Penetcostals does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Four. One to screw it in, and three to wave their hands in the air for guidance from the Holy Spirit :)

I take it you are a convert too. Welcome to Mother Church, then.

Autumn> Welcome to the insanity. Things should cool down in a few days. I take full blame for it, too.


Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 02:16:41 PM
IP: 141.164.133.102

I have to run to class so this thing is probably horrendously editted. Assume the best of me if something is ambiguous, I beg of you.

Re: JoyRides> Oh, I love the Joy-Rides, don't get me wrong. I don't want to see them gone either. I just think we need to recognize that a disclaimer is not a license to abuse the rating of the comment room. I'm not saying anyone is abusing it, I'm saying we need to be aware and reign them in a little to consider that there may be hatchlings reading this sort of thing, and we rate this place PG.

Jewel> You are taking my post too personally. It wasn't addressed personally because I didn't want it to be taken personally by anyone. I insinuated and tried to insinuate nothing. The comment about a dictionary should more propose that if it means enough to you to say, you will take the time to find a way to say it that does not violate the rules of the CR.

<<when you become the CR admin, you can ask people to leave. Personally, I can say that if Robby
does ask me to leave over my comments …>>

Actually, just as your First Amendment protects, I can ask anyone to leave. The CR Administrator can FORCE anyone to leave.

AND I'M NOT ASKING PEOPLE TO LEAVE!!! I'm asking people to vent their swearing and their hatred elsewhere. Karate, biking, and writing have all worked great for me. I'm sure every individual can find a way to vent without hurting others and without posting something in here that violates the PG rating.This is a PG forum, and a clan. There are hatchlings about. I think we all need to respect that, that is all.

<<The greater hypocrisy is self-censorship. You are putting a false-face to yourself and giving a false impression of the kind of person you are.>>

I have to disagree about that. Self-censorship is just like self-discipline. We use self-discipline because we have impulses we don't truly want to act on, or (in reflection) would shame us to act upon. The reason a governing body has to take such extreme measures such as censorship by the Feds or Robby banning someone is because people do NOT exercise self-control in their speech. There are things we wouldn't want to say in front of our kids. Why should we try to get away with saying them in a PG-rated comment room where some ~ else's ~ kids can read them?

<<If you think otherwise, then you have obviously never been so passionately enraged/hurt/pushed into self-righteous wrath to the extent where you are reduced to a frothing, raving, lunatic.>>

Oh … I have … and I've decided I don't like to be around people I can hurt when I'm like that. I used to not care, and when I got like that I hurt friends and loved-ones. I don't want to ever do that again. An act that hurts someone else to make me feel better? *shakes his head* I can't be proud of that. I could never be proud or take pleasure in hurting my clan-mates, at least not for long - I hope.

<<I suppose someone who is always as calm as you are--or as you present yourself to be, whichever the case may be--can never understand this>>

Oh, I understand. I write long, angry, vicious, crippling flaming posts … then I step away. I come back, and I read it again. I reflect on how I'd feel if it were directed at me. I reflect on how making someone feel that way should make me proud or ashamed. Then I usually wind up throwing that post away and writing something a lot more considerate of people's feelings other than my own selfish ones. I AM A VERY SELFISH PERSON. It takes a lot of effort to work that out of the way I treat people, and I fail miserably many times. I'm certainly not perfect, but that doesn't keep me from seeing the ideals of doing no harm to others. The Wiccans have a great commandment about that sort of thing I've tried to take to heart, but I'm certainly just as fallible as the next being.

<<I, sir, am an extremist.>> I, my friend, am one as well. I just can't stand hurting people over my own feelings, or seeing people hurt. I am very sorry if I hurt you, my friend.

Pistoff:

<<You have no right to suggest we're not Doug's friends just because we disagreed with something he said, when we couldn't tell that he wasn't being serious.>>

I never suggested we weren't Doug's friends. I suggested that, as Doug's friends, we have an obligation to treat him a little better than we did. There is also a big different between a disagreement and a fight. In fight, we hurt and try to hurt each other. In disagreements we deal with issues. We don't defame character and call people "disturbed" in disagreements. Them are fighting words.

You came in here, upset by something (though not angry), perhaps thinking you were the center or a focus of the attention in my post. You never were. I never said so. You assumed. Out of all the posts yours was perhaps one of the best examples of having a disagreement without flaming someone and hurting people.

<< -as if it's okay for you and Doug to say what's on your minds, but not those of us who don't agree. ->> No, I think it is fine to say what is on your mind, whether I agree of not. I don't think it is fine to say things to hurt your clan-mates. Again, we cross the line between a disagreement and a fight without seeing it until it is too late.

The idea I am trying to get across is that disagreements don't constitute a call for character defamation. Disagreements don't warrant violence or assault. Disagreements don't necessitate condescension and threats. Disagreements don't give a license to throw rocks or flames. When you flame people, no matter how hard you try and disguise it in the façade of politeness, you aren't having a reasonable disagreement anymore, you are having a fight.

My point was only (and still only is) that YOU DON'T HAVE TO HURT YOUR CLANMATES TO DISAGREE!!!! Nay, you ~ should ~ not hurt your clan-mates in a disagreement.

As for my Pedestal, Pistoff my friend, you can have it. I don't want it, and I didn't go looking for it. I don't hold myself as anyone's better, just with a different perspective or insights that might prove useful. I try and hold myself to a high standard, because I care about the feelings of the people in this room, my clan. I'm sorry if that seems arrogant. When I see something wrong, I do my best to lead by example, and I'm very sorry if that comes across as condescending. If I looked down on people, then we wouldn't be friends. That does not mean, however, that I can't observe when our actions are breaking the rules or hurting others. It also does not mean that I can't voice that disapproval when I see my dear friends hurting one another.

I said, "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone."

Well, I never intended to throw any rocks myself (though it seems I might have).
I did not go around chewing people out in specific and try to label them as bad people.
I did only note that our room was not behaving as I felt a clan should treat one another.

Pistoff, my friend, why did I offend you by my post? I never claimed I was perfect. Why must I be taking up a pedestal every time I try to lead by example? All I try to do is reflect on how what we say effects other people's feelings before I speak, and recommend that others consider and respect the feelings of their clan-mates. I'm very sorry if in doing so, I made it seem like I was talking down to anyone. I'm just as guilty as the next man, but that doesn't mean we can't try for something better, does it?

Yesterday, I tried to avoid getting into the messy and hurtful mire of flaming people. I'm sorry if in doing so, and in keeping my own anger out of my post as best I could, I came across as condescending. I'm sorry if it seemed that way to you, my friends. I don't pretend in my head that I'm any less flawed then the next man or woman.

I'm sorry if not wanting my friends to keep wantonly hurting one another seems arrogant.
I'm sorry if trying to encourage alternatives makes me seem elitist.

Pistoff, I know you well enough as a friend to know that you don't attack people unless they attack you. In light of that, I am terribly and sincerely sorry that I hurt your feelings and gave you the impression I was attacking you. I never meant to hurt my friends.

Today, I have been attacked, for voicing an opinion that apparently people felt hurt/shamed them, or was intended to. All I wanted to do was propose that we stop hurting one another, and now I have had my feelings very much hurt.

I walked around today thinking off all sorts of nasty things to say, writing drafts notes … and then, in the end, I sat down, thought about it, and threw them all away … because it isn't worth hurting my friends, because I care about and love you guy and gal-goyles. I don't want to continue a cycle of pain and hurt feelings and wounded pride. I want us to be a clan.

Look, I'm sorry if I hurt people's feelings, I mean sincerely sorry. That is the LAST thing I want to do. I'll admit that I'm arrogant enough to sometimes want to raise the bar in hopes it'll encourage people into conducting themselves in a manner more worthy of the wonderful friends I know them for. That is me being egotistical, and I'll admit to it.

I'll never take back the ideal that we can blow off steam without compromising the rating of the CR or hurting our fellow clan-mates.

I'll never take back the ideal that you are all wonderful people, who don't deserve to be hurt, and that it is beneath us to try and hurt each other, no matter how strongly we disagree.

Dona nobis pacem.

Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 02:06:39 PM
IP: 141.133.150.161

THIS POST IS FOR DOUG IF I CAN POST IT YOU CAN READ IT
I am trying to catch up on my life and well this place is part of it
Yes this is a gargoyles room to all newcomers, but it is also more; it is a family, and a family that I have needed lately so lets start.
Aris Katsaris you have a real bad habit of posting/leaping before looking. Reread GB’s post there is a smiley face.
I mean did you really think tight underwear was a real solution? Also he said dead beat dads he didn’t say anything about poor or wealthy. Yet you have a right to rant just make sure your ranting for the right reasons :o)
Dougs comments. Sorry I could tell it was a simple rant. I probably would not have made it through the week if I could not rant here. if you want to take a break ok but make it a break and not a seperation please.:(
Jewel’s comments mabey they could have been toned down or slightly edited but when we talk about things that lie close to our emotions well colorful language is sometimes the only way you can express yourself. Still saying that the posters need; well jackal had a post that was accidentally non pg. once. He came back and apologized and edited his statements for the sake of the younger readers and that is fine because if you know what f--- means then you already heard the word before and know what it means, but if you don’t then f--- will not have any meaning and you are not teaching swear words.

I guess this is up to the room; is this a family where we can come too and let off steam and bond or is it simply an archive of stories that we critique?

Man this is more than I can really take. The writing I mean. Chest still feels tight even after a week. I will try and organize my thoughts and post more later just one last thing
Ironwolf shimmers and transforms to big brother mode (I am a licensed big brother don’t try this at home kiddies) Cherry Blossom be careful about online dating yea it’s a great way to know some one if they are honest but it is also dangerous tell you what watch a movie called strangeland made by dee snider. If that don’t scare you careful then nothing will
If I was a better person mabey I could post more but I am in too much pain so little steps is the way to go and more later I promise
ironwolf turns his big sad eyes to the cr "what do you mean there is know Santa Clause?" leaves room with his lower lip trembling
ironwolf - [cag16@bellsouth.net]
buckle of the, bible belt
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 01:58:14 PM
IP: host-209-215-9-187.cha.bellsouth.net

Warpmind>> *laughs* Actually, this <click!> is probably a one-time thing. I did the pic to illustrate my new Art Tutorial and nothing else. The caption came to me while I was pounding away on the treadmill and my mind was wandering. I figure people can think up their own 101 Things to do with a Live Gargoyle themselves.

*resumes coloring Dark Ages illustrations*
Spike
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:38:27 PM
IP: pppt07-67.ght.iadfw.net

Autumn: Welcome, newcomer! As far as the new season of "Gargoyles" goes, there's no set date for it yet ... currently the series running is "Dark Ages." The other series, however, *are* in production.
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:10:13 PM
IP: zzz-209252248093.splitrock.net

Please does anyone know when the next season of gargoyles will be writen? Im very excited and eger to read more.
thanks
Autumn - [Juhl@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:55:09 AM
IP: 207.62.186.254

Just a quick line ...

Doug: Check your e-mail, if you're still here. And just to add to it ...

"There are some things that are more important than grades." -- Wally Maurer, "Finals" #4.
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:48:51 AM
IP: zzz-209252248093.splitrock.net

Aaron- Thanks

Regarding Thailog- hey, no problem here. I firmly agree he needs a long hard fall to straighten him out- or a good bitch slapping--

(And in my fic- He's gonna get it) :P
jenna
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:11:16 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Few more comments-

Cherry Blossem ^_^

Anne- reagarding your aunt- I hope you all find a solution. One thing I have done when I was in a similar situation is that I went to stay with a friend of the family, there is that and extended family members. I am a firm believer that no one should be homeless, and that's even if there a bear to live with, but esp. children. And fosterhomes tend to break up familys of kids, so that's not the answer. Let me know what happens. I'm keeping them in my prayers. Also look to the church's extended network, or coworkers to help out. Pray on it too,I know it sounds corny, but do it. God provides, and it may come from the most unlikely places.** HUGZ**

Warp-- <reg. seagull> I think you did the right thing in that case. You showed Mercy. Life is so rarely black and white.
jenna
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:07:12 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Warpmind>> *laughs* Actually, this <click!> is probably a one-time thing. I did the pic to illustrate my new Art Tutorial and nothing else. The caption came to me while I was pounding away on the treadmill and my mind was wandering. I figure people can think up their own 101 Things to do with a Live Gargoyle themselves.
Spike
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:04:03 AM
IP: pppt03-131.ght.iadfw.net

Robby: i don't think that Toy Story 2 is necessarily going to be crap--from what I've seen it looks like it might be pretty good. Not that I wouldn't want a wide release for Mononoke--maybe Disney shoulda released that EARLIER so as not to conflict with pokemon or TS2--but I'm going to give TS2 a chance before I call it crap. I liked the original, and I like the stronger female character (Jessie) that's going in this one.

Hitler & co.--despite my interest in WWII Germany I'm staying out of this one. This kind of reaction is why I thought long and hard about posting BLACK WINGS PASSED OVER (and BLACK WINGS is gone from the archive NOT because of this, but because of the archive screwup and me not having a HTML coded copy. As soon as I code it, it'll be back)

*Wagner slinks out of the Comment Room with Stormy close behind*
Stormy
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:00:58 AM
IP: dynixpc4.huron.uwo.ca

Geez, I get a little behind, catch up, and then we've quit most of the topics. Where's Stephen and his flame-retardant mecha when we need him? Ah, well.

Hitler, overpopulation, etc.> Not touching those with an eleven foot pole.

Although, I would like to point out that when the feudal chinese government wanted to limit population, they would offer a lifetime pension to anyone who'd be voluntarily castrated.

Back to our more normal insanity... ;)

I'm told that Minneapolis will be a test center for Princess Mononoke, and if it does well there it will get a wider release. Cross fingers.

New Dark Ages> Well, I hadn't gotten to comment on the first one yet, so this is a bit of a spoiler for it.

Annnnnnnd Demona's estimation of humanity's trustworthiness goes down another notch.

End semi-spoiler.

I want to ask, has anyone seen the new Brut commercials? If you've seen them, you'll know what I'm talking about. If you haven't, I don't wanna ruin the surprise.

Robby>Yeah, I hate when the guns on a shooting game are missaligned.

Kyryn> Best vibes toward your husband's grandma.

Jannie> Glad you liked House on Haunted Hill. Are you still creeped out?

Jenna>Geez, your landlords sound like total schmucks. First the bait and switch with the free rent, and now this. Good luck on finding someplace else.

SOROW> I cannot believe those guys. I hope all of them spend their time in prison being someone in the Aryan brotherhood's... well, prison b!tch. (Sorry Toku, couldn't think of any other way to describe it)

Marc> I loved Dark City, right up until the last five minutes. I thought it would've been cooler to go for the Planet of the Apes ending. (i.e., that was earth, and that left our hero and Mr. Book as God and the Devil, with Mr. Hand as their uneasy go-between. And which one of them would've been which...)

Toku> Your ten commandments were beautiful. Some of you later stuff was not so.

SJ> I dunno, I've been round and round on that one. You can argue that Pokemon can be a gateway anime to "harder" things like Vampire Hunter D and Fist of the North Star, or you can say that it perpetuates the animation as kids stuff stereotype. I dunno.

Pistoff> Never thought I'd see you look like a humanitarian. And while I agree with you about Jerico, who ranks *just* below Thailog on my list of characters who need a good b!tchslapping, (Sorry Jenna, I just don't like him) preferably with one of those things Ripley fought the Alien queen with, you *do* know Crzy is the head of the Jerico fanclub, don't you?

Gunjack><<Who hasn't swallowed their foot before?>> Heck, I've inhaled it up to the knee more then once.

Doug>As Denis Hopper said to Newt Gingrich: "Go home, get yourself together, come back and kick @$$." I swear I'm not making this up.

Christine> Cool story. And I was wondering where Return... fit into you're regular continuity. But I'm with Hudson and Wilek. I don't get it.

Starsinger> If you're lurking, please come back. This goes for you too JackaL.

Later.

Aaron leaves, whistling John Williams' Raiders March.


Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:00:49 AM
IP: ppp-233.tnt-1.sat.smartworld.net

Warp De CONGRADS ON Finding a new Place!!!!!!!!! ^_^
jenna
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:48:46 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Pistoff- ROTFLOL (I think that's the proper abrevaition) Hilarious Joy ride! Comments were well done

Kioto- very good comments. Excellent

Regarding whole overpopulation thing, I pretty much said it way before this thing started, though probally in a softer voice than most here. So I really don't see the need to repeat..I do think however that any nations' first responsiblity should be to cloathe and feed the poor. Yeah, I'm an idealist, what can I say. I know what we have in America is far from perfect, but IMO if it feeds one person, it shouldn't be done away with. I get my medicine through public assistance.

My mother in law also had an operation for her aherna and a full hysterctomy that was paid for mostly my the government. Without it, she probally would have died- it was full of tumors. So I am very glad for the assitance the government has provided.

Wilek- about the complex- yeah, It's pretty disgusting, trying to make a buck off of the suffering of others like that- I know it happens all the time, but still kind of makes me ill seeing it again.
jenna
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:06:25 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Sorry for the double post!

The 'he' to which I was referring to in the beginning of my last post was SJ--someone the name got deleted out when I was doing so shifting of stuff.

Delphi: <g>Grooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooan.
But since we're doing groaners, these are from a forward I got awhile back:

How do crazy people go through the forest?
They take the psycho path.

What do Eskimos get from sitting on the ice too long?
Polaroids.

What do you call a boomerang that doesn't work?
A stick.

What do you call cheese that isn't yours?
Nacho Cheese.

What do you call Santa's helpers?
Subordinate Clauses.

What do you call four bullfighters in quicksand?
Quatro sinko.

What do you get from a pampered cow?
Spoiled milk.

What do you get when you cross a snowman with a vampire?
Frostbite.

What lies at the bottom of the ocean and twitches?
A nervous wreck.

What's the difference between roast beef and pea soup?
Anyone can roast beef.

Where do you find a dog with no legs?
Right where you left him.

Where do you get virgin wool from?
Ugly sheep.

What do you get when you cross a pit bull with a collie?
A dog that runs for help ... after it bites your leg off.

What does it mean when the flag is at half-mast at the Post Office?
They're hiring.

Q: What's black and brown and looks good on a lawyer?
A: A Doberman.

Q: What goes clop, clop, clop, bang, bang, clop clop clop?
A: An Amish drive-by shooting

Q: How many Harvard students does it take to change a tire?
A: Two - one to hold the drinks and one to call dad

jewel
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:04:26 AM
IP: spider-ti044.proxy.aol.com

Kaioto: Oh, where to begin. Note that I am not starting a flame war, because even if I hurl a few attacks, I never continue them past one, at the outside two, posts.
Yes, the politcal climate in the CR is a wee bit hotter than normal, but why, pray tell, should that mean he should change something he has always and consistently done? (I am referring to his bleepng out one letter). And he isn't the only one who does this. But why is it that only now you chastize him for it?
"1.) Find better words. They are in the dictionary. Use it."--Do not imply that simply because one is cursing in a given situation, they have no other words to use. As I'll show in this post--without the dictionary you so blithely suggested people use--one can argue without them. But there are times, sir, when even an articulate and eloquent person is reduced to a long stream of curses. If you think otherwise, then you have obviously never been so passionately enraged/hurt/pushed into self-righteous wrath to the extent where you are reduced to a frothing, raving, lunatic.

"2.) Calm down before you go ranting and raving. If you are that angry that you have to violate the CR rules, vent someplace else." Why? If you don't vent it immediately, it simply festers and becomes worse--I've learned that from personal experience. And if you don't induce a little vitriol into the place that caused that much passionate fury, venting it elsewhere does you no good. I know I personally felt much, much better after my invective-filled rant, and know that if I'd just sent an e-mail, it would have done me no good. SUch things are rare, but when they come, they must be expressed. I admit to be a very extremist personality; I'm all or nothing, and that will forever come out in my posts. When something moves me beyond all rational thought, when somethign enrages me to that level, it comes out as it did, and then it burns away. I suppose someone who is always as calm as you are--or as you present yourself to be, whichever the case may be--can never understand this, because it is a personality type so fundamentally different that you perhaps can not grasp the the idea of having or being moved by that level of emotion. I live the emotional rollercoaster, and I know others who do as well, and I've seen the calm, placid type pooh-pooh them and tell them not to get so worked up, when to do so would be the antithesis of all that they are and the very essence of their nature. I, sir, am an extremist. I experienced one of my not-that-common blind fury rages. And just as quickly as it came, it burnt out and was gone--thanks to my post. (And this post, BTW, is an example of my cold fury. I am seething in a very cold way, as opposed to yesterday, which was fiery. Note the differences--such as extreme distance, reflected by my referring to you as "sir" and my formal grammer structure--and note that I see neither as less valid as the other. I see both as simple exhibitions of anger. Both are self-righteous, and neither will I apologize for.)

"3.) To the excuse of "But it was how I felt and could best express those feelings."
"Quoth the Rock, "IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU FEEL!!!!"

To quote Voltaire: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it."

"If you'd be getting bleeped off of network television for what you say in here, you are breaking the rules."

Considering that you can now say "shit" on network TV and that I saw a comic strip (Foxtrot) that had a character say "crap"...

"If you are going to break the rules because you are feeling selfish, I've got only one thing to say to you.
Take your sorry excuse for a carcass. Drag it out those doors. Turn a left onto Jabronie Blvd. Then keep on walkin' until you check into the Smack-Down hotel."

And as for that idea, well, when you become the CR admin, you can ask people to leave. Personally, I can say that if Robby does ask me to leave over my comments, I will make a final post consisting of a reprint of the first amendment, and from then on out wear my expulsion as a badge of honor, making it the new blinky on my webpage and e-mailing a columnist I met at a convention to boast that I got outlawed. Merda, I'd probably send a mass e-mail to all my friends with the subject 'Guess who got kicked out of a CR!' with a big bunch of smiley-faces right after. (as you can tell, I am an odd one--after all, I did take a perverse glee in all the hate-mail I got for one of my webpages) Especially since this would be something touching on my right to speak--an even bigger badge of honor for someone who carries a copy of the Consititution in her purse.

"Note: I could've used the phrase, "Rudie-poo candy-ass" like the Rock does for the sake of authenticity, but it would seem to be a wee-bit hypocritical, eh? I don't want to deal with charges of hypocrisy, even if hypocrisy chances absolutely NOTHING of the truth value of a statement … just muddies the waters … :)"

Hypocrasy? The greater hypocrasy is self-censorship. You are putting a false-face to yourself and giving a false impression of the kind of person you are.

People write the way that they speak. No one can change their speech patterns or writting patterns. Yes, they can censor occasionally, telling someone to change what they've done in the past and which no one has objected to until now seems to me a wee bit opportunistic and/or partonizing.

This post has been an example of one of my speech patterns (<g> Actually, the one that had this linguistics major ask me if she could write her thesis on me in a few years--apparently, my grammar structure, while perfectly understandable, is one that she'd never heard before). The "other" post is an example of the other. The two live in harmony the vast majority of the time, but there are times when there simply are no other words. Not because the vocabulary is somehow limited, but because there literally *are* *no* *other* *words* *at* *one's* *disposal*.

This is the last I'm going to say on the subject.

And as for Doug--I emailed him last night to ask if he was leaving for good, and he's not. He's just taking a break, because there are times when one has to, which I can certainly understand.

jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 09:50:28 AM
IP: spider-ti044.proxy.aol.com

GoodMorning everyone, it is time for some humor in here:
Hey everybody it's... G R O A N T I M E A G A I N

> Arbitrator \ar'-bi-tray-ter\:
> A cook that leaves Arby's to work at McDonalds

> Avoidable \uh-voy'-duh-buhl\:
> What a bullfighter tries to do

> Baloney \buh-lo'-nee\:
> Where some hemlines fall.

> Bernadette \burn'-a-det\:
> The act of torching a mortgage.
more next time- have a great day


Delphi - [cmiller@magiclink.com]
Twin Falls, Idaho
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 09:20:39 AM
IP: twin6117.magiclink.com

SEVARIUS JR - You wrote: [Christ, is anyone in here Jewish? I would love for someone to be, cause I'd love to hear their take on this.]

I'm Jewish and my entire take on this is that basically the seventh level of Hell is too good for the bastard. All this humanizing basically boils down to "hitler killed millions but besides that he was nice to his pets as well as other animals by being a vegetarian" I see why things like this happen. It's hard for people in general to believe that a human being could be capable of such evil. But he was capable of such evil - HE WAS EVIL. I didn't want to get into this debate because there really is no debate, no room for compromise on the subject. He was evil and anyone who says that he had some redeeming qualities is wrong. The "great animal lover" tested out the cynide that he later used on himself on his dogs. He was a vegetarian because he had intestinal problems, not because he didn't like meat.

Millions dead by INDUSTRIALIZED MURDER, all the secrets of the Third Reich lying exposed, and there still has to be a debate? If he were alive and in front of me right now I would kill him with my bare hands. hitler was EVIL. To say "yeah he was but he also loved his dogs" is a tragedy. May his name be cursed to the end of time and beyond.
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 08:43:00 AM
IP: 91.new-york-20-25rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

Xanathar> <<I think I've brocken at least three of those rules in my time>> I was unaware you had contacts within the Unseelie Court. ;) j/k

Jenna> Fire> Ack! I hope no one was hurt; it's bad enough that people have lost their homes and are being exploited <grr>. :(

Galvatron> <<Anyone here fans of Beast Wars and/or Beast Machines?>> I'm a big fan of the latter. :)

Christine> <<I knew there'd be at least one ... as Dogbert said, "puns ... never apologize, never explain." ; )>> You mean I'm the first? ;P

Fire Storm> <<My main problem with it is that whenever it moves to another song, it takes me back to that program (VERY annoying when you are trying to read the CR.) ALSO, when doing that last night, I couldn't click back to the CR. I had to press ALT-TAB to get back to the CR.>> Ah. MusicMatch Jukebox doesn't have that problem (I think you can get it at www.mp3.com). (However, there is one minor bug with my system--it prevents alt texts from showing in pictures on web sites. Hm.) <<How fast does your ripper encode?>> Um...well, those I've ripped so far have been about 3 minutes long; they've encoded in about half a minute. Or perhaps less; I've never really kept track. <<My father brought up the interesting point that most of the damage was caused by his generals and leaders who developed the methods for killing and such.>> Ah, but would they have done so without Hitler ordering it in the first place...?

Interesting bit> Recently, I have acquainted myself with an interesting little Christmas song called A Coventry Carol. Apparently, it's about...the Weird Sisters (yes, *those* Weird Sisters) discussing the protection of a Certain Rather Famous Infant from King Herod. Interesting, no?

Green Baron> <<Double sales tax on boxers and eliminate sales tax on tight underwear.>> I *would* protest, but that'd disturb a lot of people...

Bronx> Threats> ACK! I hope whatever sicko's doing this is just bluffing or somesuch. o_o'

Project Kotton> <<just how do I go about and losing my sanity?>> It's a natural process once you're here (my sanity was never confiscated, yet I no longer have it), although Deuce's sanity-sucking apparatus greatly simplifies and accelerates the process. :)

Skippy> Politically Incorrect> <chilling laughter> Oh, I HAVE to see *this*. >:)

Doug> <<For now, though, I think I'll take a hiatus from the Comment Room. Until I can get my feelings in order, at least.>> Oh, no! Please, *please* don't leave just because a few people took a comment of yours the wrong way. <sigh> If you feel you *must*, then please at least let it be a short absence. :(

Kaioto> <<Yes, the image of Boba Fett laying the smack-down on Lexy-chan's deadbeat father makes me smile … >> Heh. Not to mention Samus Aran disintegrating some idiot with that arm-mounted plasma cannon of hers... <<Let you who is without sin cast the first stone.>> Somehow, every time I read this, I can't help envisioning this huge rock falling out of the sky. ;P j/k

Pistoff> <snicker> Interesting Joyride, friend. <knowing grin>

Warpmind> <<My living problems: I FOUND A NEW PLACE!>> I'm very glad; I was getting worried about that. :) Seagull> That's so sad. :`(

Anne> <<my aunt is dying from cancer and she still has six kids that are going to become homeless unless one of their older sisters or brother take them in.>> :O I don't even know where to start, except to say that I sincerely hope things will improve (especially your aunt's health, whether it currently looks likely or not, never give up hope). :( <<Talking about people who are sick, so is my sister. She just went through the last of her candy from Halloween and got a belly ache.>> Oh no! Hope she gets better soon. :(
Wilek Nereus
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 08:20:38 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

Good morning everyone:)

Since everybody is starting this fight and are scared that the new people are going to go away don't worry--I'm loyal to the end ^_^ I just found out some news that involves this ancient saying:

"There is no fate but what we make for ourselves..."

James Cameron is planning to make Terminator 3 which is starring Arnie. Hope it's as good as the first two.

Hitler...hmm...I'm a semi-expert on this since my dad's gotten a lot of WWII movies (and they're not just for me to learn). But until today I didn't know this much about the torture that went on in the concentration camps. Hitler was either insane...evil...bigoted...corruptive, or even all, but he was the head of a war that we all either try to hide from or face with different intentions. It's maddening to know what those people went through, and even my father, a 43-year-old man, cringes whenever somebody goes into all the awful details of war. As for me, I don't really know what to say. It is apparent that Hitler definitely was something in the midst of destruction and tears: Hitler was a BAD genius. He used his mind to blind those people who are rational and he was able to change their views. He used people as the Archmage in Dark Ages uses people as pawns to get what he wants: they both wanted power. Unfortunately Hitler DID get that and we are now trying to crawl out of the cracks that we've dug for ourselves. Most people have, but some are still struggling, especially those that suffered the most. I'm speaking of my viewpoint of this, though I know many people in this comment room may view differently.

Over-population. Don't know much to say about this other then the facts that people should learn that we need to become rational and smart in how we do things. Don't leap before looking, as the good ole saying goes. Like my aunt who lives in California. When she was young she needed more money so she decided to have a kid to get welfare money. So she did. That money quickly disappeared. So she had another kid. And another one. And another one. And another one. Finally she's stuck with eight kids, no husband, and barely any money since she has to support her kids (we've been helping her out and now my aunt is a great grandma. Don't ask!). One of my friends had parents that divorced. She had four siblings, and then suddenly her mom has a boyfriend. Both are unwilling to be married but decided to have kids until the guy gets a son (and he has five other daughters, and after this his new girlfriend, my friend's mom, gives birth to two other little girls and finally a boy on the third try). Just imagine how much that guy has to work for to get enough money! Eight kids, four step children (one of them moved out), that's twelve people all in all. Anyway, I don't and can't really say anything because I don't want to hurt anybody...oh yeah, a minor note: my aunt is dying from cancer and she still has six kids that are going to become homeless unless one of their older sisters or brother take them in. My mom doesn't really know (one of the kids is a Satanist, another once smashed a kid's head through the cement after this girl called my cousin a thief, and I don't really even want to get going) if she wants to take in any of the children, but if my aunt needs help then we'll help. Family can be harsh but it also holds its promises.

Kyryn> I hope your grandma's all right!

Zath> If my mom tried to read all my stories, I'd gone insane by now! Good luck with that!

Jaden> You said the rain comforts you, it does for me too:) My parents used to have a CD that played rain music when I was a baby so I could go to bed easier.

Warpmind>Thanks for the RP info. Once again I appreciate it!

Green Baron> I'm taking the latin course next year. But you said you were going to join the priesthood...what happened? Sometimes I don't understand Pentecostal people. My grandpa's like that and we haven't told him that we're Catholic yet. He's going to be so mad when he finds out because his family is really anti-Catholic. But my family is happy in the Catholic faith so we'll probably be staying where we are and nobody can really change that, not even my grandpa.

***Buffy Spoilers***
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Oz how can you leave?! Poor Willow! They made the perfect couple, I hate that *#@c% that broke them up! >=< Is Seth Green really leaving the show? Boy, this is going to change the show a lot--and next week episode? That blonde-haired excuse for a vampire is really going to get Willow's blood after all this time? *moaning* Bet Buffy stops him before he can get through with Willow or whatever. This is the second time I've cried from this show, the first when Buffy had to kill Angel a few seasons ago. Ack! Stop making such sad episodes!

Talking about people who are sick, so is my sister. She just went through the last of her candy from Halloween and got a belly ache. My condolences to those other people who are sick or are beginning to think they have the flu.

Anyway, I have to go. Bye!
Anne
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 08:09:44 AM
IP: 209-130-164-114.nas1.apv.gblx.net

Pistoff> *wipes laughter tears from eyes* Bravo! I can't hardly wait for the "sequel" to this JoyRide :)
Also, I agree with everything else you've said here.

Warp> I have an unholy fear of birds and won't go near any of them - dead or alive. However, I think I might have done the same thing (if I could have brought myself to get that close to it). You showed great compassion in doing what you did. It was a difficult task but one that was compassionate and was humane. If you hadn't felt bad about what you did, then there would be reason for concern. I hope that you are feeling better though. Take care!
Jannie
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 07:47:33 AM
IP: 168-171-196-65.academicplanet.com

Hi all!!

Bronx:<<this has been a stressful couple of days for me, because it appears that my school has been receving threats>>Oh how horrible,school is stressful enough as it is without that:(

jenna:<<there was a four alarm fire at our complex. Now several familes are without homes. And the worse thing is the management of our place want to make a dollar off these people's suffering. They want to force them into smaller apts than they were in and make them sign a three month lease. I am so disgusted. I cannot wait to leave this place...we hope to move the first of this month.>>I don't blame you,what a bunch of cheapskates>:(

Warpmind:<<How did you come to presume I was in possession of temporal equipment? Fair enough, my neurolink implant is future technology, but it is still a spatial reallocator of sorts... still, nice Joyride, can't wait to see what ensues. And I need a fuse, not a battery...>>Woops!!,sorry my gaff,that'll teach me to rely on just memory.

Doug:I'm afraid that there's no better way I can think of to say this but "GET YOUR BUTT BACK IN HERE!!"

Kaioto:I have to side with Pistoff on this one,the Joyride RP's are labled so that you can avoid them if you don't want to read them.And as for killing Ricky Martin no I would not like to see him dead,publicly humiliated yes;) killed no.

Fire Storm:<<I have seen infomercials (READ: 30 minute ads) interupted by ads!>>*Blinks*Isn't that just a tad exessive of adverising companies.

Goodnight all!!
Xanathar
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 07:11:36 AM
IP: exip-t-002-p-202-116.tmns.net.au

Replies will commence presently...

Overpopulation: I realize, after reviewing my previous post, that my suggestion of The Joyride being a possible solution may easily be misinterpreted. I meant that entirely in jest. Naturally, when looking away from Hanson, Ricky Martin, Backstreet Boys and other famous people who have been justifiably Joyrided... ;)

My living problems: I FOUND A NEW PLACE! It' a little smaller "living quarters" than the present one, but it's got a good-sized kitchen and laundry possibility... and it's closer to both school AND the supermarket, plus the rent is about 50$ LOWER than my present one... I consider myself extremely fortunate, and I will most likely be moving sometime next week. And even better: My nearest neighbour is an attractive female, so... naah, better not speculate, I'd just wind up let down anyway...

Jewel: *Looks at post about dr. Mengele, then scratches his head.* Y'know, I just can't help comparing Mengele to our own, very popular geneticist... Of course, I'll be willing to admit, Anton does have better humor, and does seem more loath to terminate his specimens...

Kaioto: I agree with your belief that Death Penalty is a bad idea... to a certain extent. They cannot really learn from being hung, or electrocuted, or gassed, or whatever. Of course, if the offender upon return to society repeatedly commits the same manner of crime, one might open for the POSSIBILITY of Death Sentence, given that the individual offender has shown no remorse for his actions, has shown little or no respect for human life, etc. But, all things being equal, Death Penalty may just happen to be a necessary evil, if for nothing more, then for discouraging effect rather than for punishment. As for your comments on swearing... well, there's another thing about effect... you don't always get the desired effect by stating that "fecal matter was intercepted by the ventilation system"... Still, foul language should not be used when other terms could have the same effect. And if someone please give me a hand with this beam I've got stuck in my eye...? And as for the Joyride... well, it MAY just be that it's the most violent and in any and all ways most adult-oriented, but I don't think this RP should be aborted... particularly considering the brilliant time-travelling idea. Nevertheless, we might try to moderate the language some. After all, violence described in diplomatic terms may often be the most entertaining... and politically correct terms even more so... But every Joyride event comes with fair warning, and should as such not be banned for contents. Just take a look at South Park: the disclaimer states clearly that because of its offensive contents, it should not be viewed by anyone... Some might object to mentioning South Park in such a reference, but try to see a little beyond the mere words, without losing track of the words themselves (and never mind the fnords). You say that the one with no sin shall cast the first stone... what about us who prefer edged weapons? ;) Yeah, I know, that little joke was tasteless, but I had to make it.

Jaden: It was a sorry attempt at a joke? Well, as one egghead to another... the yolk'll be on you. ;) And sorry for snatching that one, Christine.

Pistoff: *Chokes on laughter, then grins.* Nice Joyride... of course, it wasn't being very nice, was it? Then again... there's case precedent, I guess. Let me take a look at Jericho's background... Hmmm... Massive Oedipal Complex, multiple homicide, clear signs of inherited psychosis and xenophobia... yup, one sick puppy, all right. He's his mother's son, no question about that.

Over to more serious things...

I know this is probably bad timing, but I killed a living being yesterday. A seagull. Before you start condemning me, allow me to speak for the defense: Although it is true that I have, for several years and counting, hated seagulls with a passion, the fowl in question had already been hit by a car, and had at least a triple fracture in its right wing, completely beyond repair. So, considering the large amounts of cats in the area, I did the only humane thing I could. I picked up a two-by-four and clubbed it to death. As much as I hate seagulls, the actual kill was the hardest thing I have ever done, and I am not proud of it. Still it was something that had to be done, to put the poor creature out of its misery. It died swiftly and without (I hope) too much pain. I hope I never have to do it again...

After I slew the bird and disposed of it (making sure it was dead and not just KO) I went home, and soothed myself with a few shots of scotch. As it turns out, Spider Robinson was right: "[Alcohol] cannot blunt the edge of sorrow." By now, some of you might think me a closet psychotic just for being able to go through with the kill, but I beg thee to give it more thought... how much more would that seagull have suffered, had I left it alone in the ditch? And what about my feelings about the killing? Aw, heck with it, I gotta go to class. Maybe, just maybe, I can forget it ever happened... though I doubt it. Now, for some reason, I have another doubt: I don't really think that the filk I'm writing will be done by the 24th, no matter how much I try... Or maybe I'm just a tad hypersensitive right now...

Well, I'll try to get through it, and when I do, well, there'll be a Joyride to be reckoned with. Note that this obvious difference in attitude is that when I Joyride someone, it is because of direct physical or emotional pain that or those individuals have personally caused me. The seagull had caused me none...

Well, class in a few, so I gotta go.

Later.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 07:01:51 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

* BUFFY/ANGEL SPOILERS *

The response to these two eps was pretty good here. One of the best things about last night's "Buffy" - no more mention of Parker! :) Of course, now it's Willow who's in trouble; I really felt sorry for her in this episode. And I've got to admit with the others that Veruca definitely could tie with Faith for the "bad girl" title (although I really oughtn't to be saying anything about female werewolves at the moment because - oops, I believe that I've said too much already). To make matters worse for Willow, it seems that she's going to get seriously attacked by Spike in next week's episode, judging from the preview that they showed - let's hope that she doesn't become a casualty.

Speaking of Spike, I've got to admit that I'm even more eager to see those mysterious vampire-hunters come to the fore (and was glad to see Buffy and Giles now becoming aware of them). After all, if these guys are capable of bringing *him* down, they've got to be a serious threat. (Although, since Spike's apparently to be back in next week's episode, they must not have been able to hold him for very long - or does he escape on his own? Well, we'll see).

"Angel" was also a good one, and quite funny; the "over-sensitized" characters were amusing, and it was great to see those vampire lawyers back again. (Cynics might raise the question as to how you tell a vampire lawyer apart from a human lawyer, by the way :) I also LOL at the bit where Cordelia's grumbling at the beginning about how Angel never even pays close attention to them, while Doyle's getting attacked by the weird monster without her even noticing.

I've got to admit that these two shows are one of the best things to come along to television since "Gargoyles" went off the air.

* BUFFY/ANGEL SPOILERS END *

As for the overpopulation/Hitler debates currently raging in the room, I think I'd better stay out of them. (Although I imagine that Demona would be very interested in contributing to the overpopulation debate :)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 07:00:20 AM
IP: 216.87.46.195.dialup-stl.primary.net

Hi, guys. Replies first, then on to other stuff.

Wilek: You didn't get it? Count your blessings...

Xanathar: How did you come to presume I was in possession of temporal equipment? Fair enough, my neurolink implant is future technology, but it is still a spatial reallocator of sorts... still, nice Joyride, can't wait to see what ensues. And I need a fuse, not a battery...

Spike: Checked out your new updates... thanks for linking to my page, I will update the Gallery as soon as I get FTP access. As for that 101 things list... do you have all 101 things listed, ready for drawing, or do you take suggestions? And will the collection be published and sold? After all, if you stick to Spike in all the pictures, Disney are unlikely to have much basis for a lawsuit anyway... and I know I'd be first in line to buy a copy of the "101 things to do with a live gargoyle" collection... So, what's it gonna be?

Overpopulation: Well, I figure one might consider the Joyride a possible solution... removing certain undesirable genotypes from Creation, etc. What do you think?

Aris Katsaris: *Walks up to Aris with a HUGE syringe.* Um... I think you need a mild tranquilizer... that rant of yours seemed slightly excessive...

Will finish replies at later hour.

Until later, friends.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Nowhere
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 05:09:42 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

Kaioto: Before you put yourself on your pedastal yet _again_ and condemn the rest of us and the Joyride and the RP stuff...take a moment to notice that the Joyride and other RP are all LABELED and everybody KNOWS it's just an RP or a bit of satire or venting. Were Doug's comments labeled in any way? Did he say the things he said with a ";)" or anything else that indicated that he wasn't serious?

And how dare you suggest that we're not his friends because we disagree with him about something? How dare you say that we "betrayed" him? Immediately after he made his apology post, I sent him an email telling him that we DON'T hate him and that we don't want him to leave. We simply disagreed with something he said, and voiced our own opinions. If Doug is allowed to make the comments he made, why shouldn't the rest of us be allowed the same courtesy? After all, you've just voiced your own opinion--but I guess that's perfectly okay, since it's YOUR opinion, because you're the CR Sage. Sheesh!

This is just a disagreement. We've had them before, and we'll have more in the future. The CR is like a family, and what family doesn't have arguments? NONE! Everybody will get over it and life will go on, as it has before. It's part of life. And if that's too much for you to handle, Mr. CR Sage, then you shouldn't watch the evening news or even leave your house. These things happen, and it all blows over and we move on and still remain friends and family. You have no right to suggest we're not Doug's friends just because we disagreed with something he said, when we couldn't tell that he wasn't being serious. But then, I suppose you see things _so much more clearly_ than the rest of us. After all, you _are_ the CR Sage. *rolls eyes*

Now, I want to make note of something: I am not angry. This was not a shoot-from-the-hip post. I thought about this a long time before responding. I am just annoyed at your attitude, Kaioto--as if it's okay for you and Doug to say what's on your minds, but not those of us who don't agree. *shrugs* Interperet it as you see fit....

And now for a Joyride segment--something that has been bothering me for a LONG time. And notice that the following is LABELED and is clearly meant to be satirical...yet it's guaranteed to piss off a lot of people. :)

**JOYRIDE**

Pistoff glances around and something catches his attention. "'Scuse me for a moment." He wanders off, and the others stare at him, worried.

"What's he gonna do now?" Xanathar says.

Jack points. "See those women over there? The ones wearing the T-shirts with pictures of Jericho on them?"

Wilek blinks. "You mean that fanfic character who is having sex with his own mother?"

"That's the one. Those women are members of Jericho's fan club. Pis kinda lets things like that get to him, sometimes."

"Um...Jericho has a fan club? Why?"

Jack shrugs. "I can't imagine why. That character brings a whole new meaning to the words, 'mama's boy.' For some reason, women seem to be attracted to the guy."

Wilek just gags. He and the others watch as Pistoff as he reaches the group of fangirls.

Pistoff waits till he has their attention. Then he points at their shirts. "You're fans of this guy?"

"Oh yeah!" one of them squeals. "He's a hunk!"

"You do realize he does it with his own mother, right?"

"So? He's just soooo hot!"

Pis just sighs and shakes his head...then slaps the nearest fangirl. "Pervert!" He moves on to the next one. "Sicko!" **SLAP!** And so on, moving from one to the next, until he has slapped each one. Then he turns and walks back to the Joyriders.

"That's it?" Jack asks. "That's all you're gonna do? Just slap 'em?"

Pistoff shrugs. "They're not worth a bullet."

**JOYRIDE DONE**
Pistoff
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 02:51:34 AM
IP: wire-15.koalas.com

Just stopped in before I lose consciousness.

Warpmind-Bugging me? Never, I thought it was funny. My last response to you was a sad sorry attempt at making another joke.

Doug> <Big war or epidemic> Sort of like that movie/book The Stand. Once I thought about something like that it really seemed inevitable. Maybe it will you never know till it happens. I've even had dreams about it. Sometimes a nuclear war or a disease.

Fire Storm <Never stopped> That's so sad.:( People like that really shouldn't drive. A friend of mine once got hit by a car and the person just kept going. Talk about road-rage. She was lucky she wasn't hurt.

See ya later!
Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.co]
Los Alamos, CA
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 02:22:07 AM
IP: cache2.avtel.net

*walks in, tired*
just a quick post......

Christine > I enjoyed The Boy With Healing Hands. *groans at the pun though* I was an interesting story

Dragon's Stone > good story......I enjoyed it........

Pistoff > when is the second part to "Injustice for All" coming out? I still want to find out what happens......

Spike > I hope the next story with Avery will be coming out soon. I'm interested in seeing what happens next in that universe

*********BEGIN BUFFY & ANGEL SPOILERS*********

Buffy > good episode, though I felt bad for Willow. She didnt deserve for verula to do what she did. Verula was a vile bitch and it was wrong for her to try and talk Oz into trying to see it her way. I shed no tears for her. I know one of my friends might get pissed that Oz and Willow broke up. and spike getten taken.....hmm, wonder what's going to happen to him now.........

Angel > it was a good episode, I enjoyed it. there were some funny parts, but still a good episode. it was good to see more of that evil law firm.

*********END BUFFY & ANGEL SPOILERS*********

well, I better be going to bed.......see ya'll later.......

*fades into thin air*
Dags - [Dagastino_2000@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 01:52:35 AM
IP: host-209-214-119-36.bna.bellsouth.net

hey everybody!
busy room tonight, I think it only took me an hour to read the comments from the last day! I'm getting better!!

Warpmind< I think you said something about finding the local Illuminati. Its a tempting thought, but I don't know what their number is! :P

Green Baron< I don't know what CYO is. I'm figuring its catholic something but I can't figure out what the YO is for. I can't really tell ya if my church has an equivalent then... sorry.

everybody< Lexy wanted me to remind anybody who has not mailed her their money for the Robby-Heather fund please do *hides* I can't remember and I only live two miles away from the girl!! aah!! we are going to try to get Lexy over here at my house as soon as possible though!!

overpopulation< what is the definition of it? I looked in 3 Webster's dictionary's. it wasn't in a single one of them. I've asked people all over the place and no one can really define it for me. Can one of you define it for me?? If not, how do we know that maybe we haven't reached overpopulation already. there are people in China, India, and lots of other countries that have no food daily, and that prostitute their bodies for a living. If overpopulation is having so many people on the earth that not everybody can be properly supported, well, then I say we have already reached that limit. as for the big family's and all the hostility toward them, back way back when people had big families, they had 8 to 10 kids and no one worried about the problems of feeding the entire world. but of course there also wasn't vaccinations so more people died from diseases. maybe it is majority technology's fault that overpopulation could happen? and yet the answer to surviving from overpopulation is also technology because it can give us more ways to produce more energy so more people can use it. Sometimes I wonder about these things a little too much for my own good.

Hitler< I have one word for this man. MURDERER. plain and simple. Any person that can in cold blood murder 6 million people simply because of their religion or the way they look is more despicable than I have an opinion for. Even if he didn't consider them "people" it doesn't matter because they were of the human race, so they are people. They had family's and feelings and all the things that people that are german with blonde hair and blue eyes have. What would amaze me the most was if he was able to sleep at night knowing that people's blood was on his hands because he happened to hate God.

Jenna< I love talking about homeschooling :) it is one of my favorite things to talk about.

I had to type this twice now so I probably left some things out but frankly, I'm tired and going to bed! g'nite everybody!!

cherry blossom
WI, USA
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:57:46 AM
IP: spider-tk061.proxy.aol.com

Evil, Vegetarianism, and Nazis:

Being kind to animals does not necessarily make one a nice person. Some people find animals so much more agreeable than humans that they will kill their fellow man but give their lives to save a cow. This isn't even a mental illness, it is an opinion.

Illogic does not always make one insane.
Evil is not an insanity of the mind, but a sickness of the soul.
A man can have a perfectly sound mind, and no constraints, and choose to act evil.

"Children of the Flies" in fact proposes the stark and frightening idea that indeed, when you remove the controls from behavior, men regress to evil and barbaric behavior. I don't personally think that characterizes humanity, only some individuals.

Some of us want evil.
Some of us are easily seduced by power. It isn't always a mental illness. Sometimes it is just a choice.
Sometimes, we decide human life isn't worth anything, or that our selfish pleasures are worth more than other people's needs, or that our own race has more right to the planet than another. Sometimes, we decide to be evil.

What power truly does, is allows the evil men to act evil without fear, and tempt the good to act out the darkness they fight so hard to repress. This is why they say that absolute power corrupts absolutely. It may not hold for all good men, but all who would choose the lures of evil given the opportunity thrive when they are above or escape from "the rules." Power makes it easy to be evil, and hard to be good.

Some of us have evil values. They see themselves as good. They see nothing wrong in murder or rape or destruction of others. They are not sick in the head, per se, they have an evil set of values.

People like to decide that people are "madmen" more often than accept that a person might simply decide some day that it is quite alright to kill you or I for no reason other than spilling soda on their shoes. Accepting that there are evil people in the world makes life a whole lot more scary. It also forces us to decide that there are objective values for determining right and wrong, at least at the most base level. To condemn a murderous act, we must first decide that the murder was objectively wrong. If it is subjectively wrong, then we have no more right to judge the righteousness of such a killing than the murderer. And finally, to judge an act as evil or good, we submit ourselves to the terrifying reality that our OWN actions and lives shall be judged on some objective scale we can't control.

Yes, there are mentally ill people out there who are destructive instead of evil. There are also evil people out there who rationally and calculatedly commit evil acts with evil motives.

Overpopulation:

We need to cut down the number of people we are adding to the population. This is true.

Population control is a matter of responsibility.
Right now, it can only be personal responsibility.
Someday, if we fail with option one, we will no longer have the option … and people will be sterilized or worse just plain murdered to make room. I hope we succeed with option one.

We need to stop having more kids than we can support and raise well. For some people their limit is 0. We can't enforce this, except the criminals and the dangerously insane. It is a sad thing that people think sex is for fun and then are caught so ignorant of the consequences which are the naturally intended out comes of sex. I think birth control is not perfected yet. I think that young people who by no stretch of the imagination are ready for a child shouldn't be having sexual intercourse, "protected" or not. You aren't supposed to play dice with that sort of thing. There is plenty you can do with the one you love without risking a child.

I'm a firm believer in strong punishment for crimes, but I can't agree to the death penalty. Based on that, there is no way I can approve of weeding the population for people with attitudes and genes we find objectionable. Even jerks have a right to live.

You know, the main problem with reproduction is that many people aren't qualified to be good parents who are having children now a days. I doubt my own abilities, true, but after I graduate and get my degree from my particular skills I'll be place and I'd at least be able to ~ feed and shelter ~ my child, if I have one. If you can't provide the necessities (including time), you should not be creating dependants. That is irresponsible.

The problem to this, however, is that the rich can provide for more children. Some of the poor may not be able to have any children. I think the best solution to this problem, however, is making sure that the capitalist system has fair avenues for people who work hard to escape poverty. Sadly, this avenue has yet to be made real for a LARGE number of people in this world.

In the end, overpopulation is supposed to be solved not by death, but by respect and responsibility for the life we create and are capable of creating ...

Well-fare and children:

I want to know at what point having MORE children you couldn't be responsible for was supposed to be rewarded?

Then I want to know at what point punishing the children, directly or indirectly, became an acceptable avenue of punishing a parent?

The problem with paying to support more children: The money goes to the parents, who keep proving they are irresponsible. If a parent keeps having children they can't provide for, aren't they proving they are irresponsible parents?

Don't punish the children! Hell no, don't punish the children. Don't take the food off the dinner table or the clothes off their back which that money provides. Don't encourage the parents either! It seems like a parent who keeps having kids in such a situation is not paying much care to these children's conditions, at least not enough to STOP HAVING SEX!

These are the cases where it needs to be considered as to whether or not reproducing wantonly to the detriment of your children constitutes abuse/negligence. Abuse/negligence is grounds to arrest and prosecute a parent as well as take their children away.

If only, again, the adoption and child-placement systems WORKED, this wouldn't be so dangerous.
If only, again, people did not exploit and abuse children, this would not be so dangerous
If only, again, people wouldn't abuse this idea by saying that the poor can't reproduce.
If only, again, people would not abuse the system in the first place.
If only, again, people would start acting responsibly.

My own mother went through the DSS thing, abused and harmed most of her life. She was also abused and harmed by her own family. Hell, it didn't matter whether they were blood-kin or no, these people were either irresponsible or exploitative of children. They shouldn't have been her "guardians."

Deadbeat fathers AND mothers …

Just reverse the contraction to find a solution:
Beat Dead …

Now, that was a feeble attempt at caustic humor, but I look at this country and I want to know how is it that we can find out so many useless details about the personal lives of entertainers, but we can't find deadbeat parents or make them pay up. Come on, this system sucks. Reform this thing, and quick. Make results a requirement for continued cushy government offices including this one. I'm about ready to recommend bounty-hunters.

Yes, the image of Boba Fett laying the smack-down on Lexy-chan's deadbeat father makes me smile …


I might also add, about all the swearing going on.

1.) Find better words. They are in the dictionary. Use it.

2.) Calm down before you go ranting and raving. If you are that angry that you have to violate the CR rules, vent someplace else.

3.) To the excuse of "But it was how I felt and could best express those feelings."

Quoth the Rock, "IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU FEEL!!!!" If you'd be getting bleeped off of network television for what you say in here, you are breaking the rules.

If you are going to break the rules because you are feeling selfish, I've got only one thing to say to you.

Take your sorry excuse for a carcass. Drag it out those doors. Turn a left onto Jabronie Blvd. Then keep on walkin' until you check into the Smack-Down hotel.

Note: I could've used the phrase, "Rudie-poo candy-ass" like the Rock does for the sake of authenticity, but it would seem to be a wee-bit hypocritical, eh? I don't want to deal with charges of hypocrisy, even if hypocrisy chances absolutely NOTHING of the truth value of a statement … just muddies the waters … :)

PS: SJ … can't you READ THE SIGN!!! No swearing in here! No using the F-word! I don't CARE if you delete a vowel. That doesn't cut it. I'd say even the first letter with @#$ behind it is borderline. There are 8 year olds present.

Finally, Regarding Doug and all those people who decided to rip him a new rear-oriface.

Now come on … sure … we all need to rant. We all need to make harsh jokes. We all say things we don't mean. It is important that people don't think we mean them literally.

Sure, I have negative feelings too, and I need to vent them. But a general rule the Wiccans have made very clear is, "Do no harm."

Sometimes, hell, on a daily basis, we do harm. We try to keep it to a minimum. We try to keep it in jest.

If something is offered as a "I need to get emotions off my chest rant." The last thing people should do is start spell-checking it and focussing on content reading and judging the person for how they feel at the moment.

Sometimes we say outrageous things to make an non-literal point. We are free to do so.
Sometimes people take umbrage.
Sometimes they are being hurt.
Sometimes they have sticks up their butts.
At least Doug doesn't go around swearing a blue-streak at people to relieve his stress, or hurting them. He writes out his frustrations. He vents them in front of people who he expects to help him work through those feelings. He vents to his FRIENDS.

Friends don't listen to their friends after a bad day at work and say: "You are a bad, disturbed person."

If they object to the idea in the rant, they mention that it is not something they consider logical, moral, or rational. Anyone who actually knows Doug or pays attention to Doug in here would know darn well that Doug would never want to see people really hurt or killed. People thought about it would know it was a morbid, outrageous observation offered in the context of the "silver-lining" of war, which there isn't.

His friends wouldn't suddenly assume or insinuate that Doug was either: A.) Ignorant. Or B.) A monster.

We've behaved like poor friends today. Within our bounds as individuals, truly and rightly, but we made lousy friends. Friends give friends the benefit of the doubt.

I think it will be a long time before Doug trust us in this CR with his feelings again.
Because we betrayed that trust.

And don't anyone of you tell me you haven't had that impulse to play God and exert some huge judgmental manner. It is human nature as both creator and destroyer. We all have egos. It isn't like Doug wrote a manifesto to actualize his impulse. He simply told us, honestly, how he felt.

Hell, take a look back at all the joy-rides we've had in here (Which, btw, need to get neutered quickly to get the room down to PG level). Does Ricky Martin deserve do die, honestly? No. Does he piss some people off to the point where they might SAY "Ricky Martin needs to die?" YES. Sometimes we forget too easily that we too can be the butt of frustrations and jokes. We have to learn to laugh stuff off and let go. We also have to learn when our own venting needs to take a back-seat to other people's feelings.

Haven't we all had the urge to hurt or kill someone, or many people? Haven't we all had the impulse to leave those who make life miserable to the very misery they create for us? Haven't we all vented about that before, or gone all cynical and caustic instead of exploding?

*collects all the rocks and flames already tossed"

Let you who is without sin cast the first stone.

*stalks out, his head bowed*

Toku Kaioto - CR Sage - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:42:50 AM
IP: 141.133.150.161

Gunjack Valentine: <g> I don't think you look stupid at all--after all, one only looks stupid if they don't ask. And as I've shown, I love giving little history lessons...
Dr. Mengele was the head doctor at Auschwitz. He was one of the men who did the selections (he points right, you go back to the barracks and "live" a little longer, he points left, you go to the gas chamber and die) and who did experiments on the prisoners. He's most notorious for his twin experiments. He would save any twins who came in, only to experiment on them. He was especially interested in blond twins with brown eyes, and would do things like inject die into their eyes to try and turn them blue. Likewise, he would often experiment on one twin and leave the other as a control, and then have both twins killed and examine the differences. He was said to often treat the twins exceptionally well, bringing them candy, making sure they were well fed, and sometimes even give them a ride in his car...and once, he gave some twins a ride in his car...straight to the gas chamber. He also called for experiments such as radiation treatment, to find faster ways of mass sterilization (they wanted the Jews and homosexuals dead, but the mischlingen [half- or part-Aryan, part anything else such as Jew (but only if through the mother's side; if the father was Jewish, they were considered full Jew and sent to the camps--rather ironic, since typically, according to Jewish tradition, the religion is carried through the mother's side--but Germany was very male-centric, and the mother's genes were seen as less potent than the father's) or Black (mostly bastard children of American GI's after WWI)] and the sub-Aryans [Poles, Czechs, Russians] they wanted to exploit a little longer, but without the worry of them breeding). The "experiments" usually consisted of exposing people's sex organs to high amounts of radiation--there tales of men whose genitalia simply rotted away and fell off. It's because of things like this, becauase he was "hands-on" in his killings, because he could be so nice to these children and then butcher them the next day, because he was able to violate the Hippocratic oath in such unspeactable ways, and that he had no remorse, is why I consider Mengele to be the height of evil.
jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:20:12 AM
IP: spider-to021.proxy.aol.com

Serarius Jr- good comments.


jenna
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:58:17 PM
IP: ppp-209-184-83-63.hstntx.swbell.net

Valentine- LOL at your comments. :P
jenna
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:47:02 PM
IP: ppp-209-184-83-63.hstntx.swbell.net

Whoa, lot of crap to get to tonight. Must try to be non inflammatory...

Doug: Now, you see what you've done? You've made me agree with Aris!
Seriously, I'm not trying to break your balls, cause frankly I value you as a friend and you've been through the wringer enough. Any retorts you may have "deserved", you've already been given. I just want to tell you that, while I too was a bit disturbed by your comments, don't think you are alone in them. Everyone in here, everyone, whether they'll admitt it or not, have felt that way before. Hell, my life isn't full of wine and roses, I can generally feel pretty antisocial quite often. I just want you to know that you are not alone in feeling disgusted with the world; many of us have those moments. While I may not have agreed with your comments, I can't honestly say that I haven't taken a "F*** the World" before (or will again). I'm here for you if you need me, as are everyone else. If you're depressed, let us take off some of that load, bro, we'll be more than happy to help you. :)

Population: Well, to confirm something with Jannie....well, I can't honestly say I don't get a little disgusted when I see someone with like, say, 5 kids, and pregnant again. True, it's someone's right to have as many children as they want, but personally I'm not big on big families. Know that these feelings come from my dislike/hatred of my most of my own family (who, most of them, treat me like sh!t), so this is really sort of a psychological thing. My own bad experiences have led me to a somewhat aversion to big family units.
As for the various methods of population control....many sicken me. I'm for education in family planning and increased birth control methods, but I am absolutely, with all of my soul, opposed to sterilization. Same with forcing families to only have X number of children. What can I say? I'm antisocial, I don't want to share the earth with 9,999, 999, 999 other people.

Hitler: Okay, here's where I royally piss people off.
What the hell is wrong with people today? Jesus Christ, cut the bullshit. Hitler was f!cking nuts, okay? Whether he personally gassed the millions of Jews, blacks, gypsies, homesexuals, or other "undesirables" who died in the Holocaust, or whether others did it for him, the man is still responsible for the death of millions. Why? Cause he didn't like them, and in his own f!cked up way, thought they were against him. This isn't even like the Americans killing the Indians, cause at least the Americans had the homicidal greed to kill for land and resources. Hitler did it out of pure hate. I'm sorry, I'm sick of all this "good and evil are relative terms" bullshit. I have so few people in my existence that I can hate and still be "PC", so LET ME HATE THIS MAN.
What the hell is all this shit with "Hitler was a vegetarian, he was an environmentalist, he loved puppies"??? I'm sure that's true. Jeffrey Dahmer was a nice guy to his neighbors, it doesn't change the fact that he had a fucking head in his refridgerator. Hitler's regime is responsible for one of the darkest moments in human existence. Is it the only one? No, nor will it be. Yes, I know that America has done great evil. Many of my ancestors were Cherokees. Anybody here of the Trail of Tears? I know what evil men are capable of, and yes America has done very evil things. We were talking about the whole World War 2 thing a while back. America was portrayed very negatively. You know what the Japanese did to the Phillipines days before MacArthur recaptured it? They killed countless people in Manila. Men with their throats slit. Women gang raped then butchered. Babies' eyes were plucked and an the gelatinous masses were smeared across the walls. Yeah, we're fucked up, they're fucked up, we're all fucked up.
But what the hell is all this with Hitler? If people want to hate him, LET THEM. If they want to claim him as an unspeakable evil, LET THEM. Don't let the moral ambiguity target him. You wanna humanize somebody, humanize somebody else. Let people hate this man unconditionally. Christ, is anyone in here Jewish? I would love for someone to be, cause I'd love to hear their take on this. I've got a big mouth, but even I wouldn't have the balls to tell one single Jewish individual that, yeah, Hitler killed millions of your kind, but he sure did like cocker spaniels! He was one of the most bloodthirsty tyrants in recent history, but he sure did build good roads, the audoban kicks ass! Christ...

***BUFFY AND ANGEL***
Buffy was exceptional tonight. It was interesting to see how they wrote Seth out of the show. I must say that I shed no tears when Veruca bought it; she was perhaps the most vile villain, for me, I've seen all season. She was inhuman and *liked* it. It was pretty gut-renching to see Oz and Willow break up. I really felt for Willow tonight; most of the time she had that look on her face that just made you wanna grab her and hold her, right? Pretty good character dev. on both of them, because I think this could very well be the worst time of their lives. I eagerly anticipate where Joss goes from here.
I'm also interested in the apparent abduction of Spike by the Inquisition....oh I'm sorry, I was thinking in WoD terms...well, whoever this secret society is, they don't seem to tak too kindly to Buffy. Perhaps this could be a slow buildup to the season's big antagonist group? 10 outta 10

Angel was pretty good tonight too, with a strong showing by actress Elizabeth Rohm as Kate. The lovey dovey stuff was handled pretty humorously, and it was nice to see the return of the evil law firm again. I'm still a little bummed out that Doyle is leaving though...it makes it hard to get into his character now, cause I don't want to get too attached cause I just know he's not going to be around much longer.
And Cordy is right--stop Angel from brooding so much! Anyway, hmm....8 outta 10.
***END SPOILERS***
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:46:15 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Jenna - I think everybody has been too busy watching the four-alarm in here! Wait a few days, and hopefully everything will be sorted out and people will start paying attention to the outside world again.*sigh*

About the fire: Do they know what started it?
Valentine
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:41:06 PM
IP: 1cust153.tnt5.dfw5.da.uu.net

*On his way out, Valentine spots Doug's most recent post. Without another word, he begins to rythmicly beat his head against a convinient wall.*

Oh, bloody friggen' heck, not AGAIN! Doug, if you feel like you need to take a break, so be it. I hope you get everything sorted out soon, but take as long as you need. We'll be here when you get back, and I for one will be hoping and praying that your absense will be short.

And as for everyone else, I think that we all need to take a good long look at how we register disagreement with someone else's viewpoint. I've half a mind to lay down another monster post, but I promised that I'd get to bed by eleven. If Kaito hasn't already nailed this problem by tommorow morning, I'll have to try myself. The volitility in here is getting out of hand!
Gunjack Valentine
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:36:01 PM
IP: 1cust153.tnt5.dfw5.da.uu.net

Pistoff- sent you an em, keep eyes peeled.

Personal note- I don't know if anyone noticed, there was a four alarm fire at our complex. Now several familes are without homes. And the worse thing is the management of our place want to make a dollar off these people's suffering. They want to force them into smaller apts than they were in and make them sign a three month lease. I am so disgusted. I cannot wait to leave this place...we hope to move the first of this month.
jenna
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:34:24 PM
IP: ppp-209-184-83-63.hstntx.swbell.net

You know, I was thinking... what would a newcomer think right now if he/she clicked on the link to the TGS comment room and read the current discussion? My "little sis" Niana was using my PC a moment ago, and she brought up my bookmarks - suddenly, I hear her go, "Mandi, I thought this was supposed to be a GARGOYLES comment room??"

I'm not putting down the off-topic tendency of this CR - I enjoy it myself - but I just couldn't stop laughing. I'm staying out of the current discussion and getting on to more mundane things.

**BUFFY SPOILERS! MAJOR BUFFY SPOILERS, I MIGHT ADD! THE WHOLE @(#$&$% ENDING OF THE EPISODE!**

This is the second time in five days a TV show drove me to tears. I knew they were going to break Willow and Oz up, but oh, what a way to do it. Seth Green and Alyson Hannigan gave great performances this time around, and I could see why Oz was tempted by Veruca's way of life. The ending completely blindsided me - I didn't expect Veruca to go and attempt to kill Willow, but I was even more shocked that Oz actually killed Veruca. Oz's departure scene was heart-wrenching, and had me and Niana in tears... agh, I know I have no life, but first N&A and now BtVS. Are they deliberately trying to make us miserable over sweeps? Poor Oz. Poor Willow. 10/10 - best episode this season since "Living Conditions."

**END BUFFY SPOILERS, AND I MISSED ANGEL DUE TO A HALL MEETING**

Doug... *sigh* Oh, NO. No, no, no, no, no... Great. Now yet another friend is dropping out of sight thanks to a few cases of foot-in-mouth syndrome and a discussion getting out of hand. Yeesh.

That's it, I've got an exam tomorrow to study for. Night all.
Mandolin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:18:01 PM
IP: 144.175.18.15

Kaito - Before I forget again, I wanted to thank you for the excellent "Ten Commandments" post. Keep 'em coming!

*Valentine scans through the CR, noting with dismay the raised hackles and echoing invective.*

Yeesh, things really started getting warm in here today... I'll agree with FS and Jewell that Doug and GB said were wrong, but ease up a touch. Maybe it was the simultanious discussion about Hitler that threw their comments in such a bad light. Still, who here hasn't swallowed their foot before? I agree that such comments demand an immediate responce, but is it possible to show severe disagreement in a less violent way?

Out of the last day's comments, Pisstoff's struck me as the most mature. No shouting, no invective, just reason. True, this may be because the screaming and yelling were already finished, but my hat's still off to you.

******************End Boring Psuedo-Lecture****************

Patrick Toman - Sorry if I wasn't clear enough... When I said that "soil isn't consumed when used", I was comparing it to oil. Yes, soil can be exhausted, but after a decade or two it can be converted back into productive land (assuming that the soil hasn't been poisened). On the other hand, you can't exactly reconstitute burned gasoline, and an oil field takes one heck of a long time to grow back...
Anyway, thanks for the clarifacations.

Wilek><<Does that mean you'll implode at the end of this year?>> One never knows... Hmm...

David G.><<I'll be glad to tell you about Changeling. How much other World of Darkness stuff are you familiar with? If you know Mage, I can use that as a point of context in my explination.>> Actually, I've never touched the stuff. An old gaming buddy of mine was into Vampire and Werewolf, but I moved before he could give me the rundown. Mera spent about two hours giving me an overview of the basic history and politics (don't you love it when a basic overview takes two hours?:)), but I'm looking for more detail, especially about trolls...

If you've got the time and don't mind the bother, send me anything you've got. Thanks!
<<I guess that's enough social philosophy for one post. I've been thinking about entering the great religion debate, to try to explain a few things about Christianity (or at least my beliefs about Christianity, which is all I can really do) but there's enough explosives in the room right now that I don't need to be juggling lit torches.>> Smart man. Hopefully, the room will have aired out in a few days...
Oh, and good luck with dodging the flu... Seems like everybody's sick now... *Valentine hands David a bowl of enchanted chiken noodle soup*

Jewell - Um, this'll probably make me sound like a total idiot, but who's Josef Mengele?

Ugh...fifteen minutes until lights out. I thought about not even posting tonight, as I feel strangely compelled to explore the copy of the Prinipia Discordia (hope I spelled that right) that I stumbled across on the web.

Funny, I seem to be hearing voices calling me to the dark side...
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:15:11 PM
IP: 1cust153.tnt5.dfw5.da.uu.net

History lesson time!

Todd: The reason Stalin didn't think Hitler would invade the USSR was simple: A two-front war would have been military suicide, and Germany knew that better than anyone else--the two-front war was, in fact, part of why German lost the first world war--their defences and troops were split in two, to fight on both fronts. No one in their right mind would start a two-front war--especially Germany, he figured, since that's what had messed them up 20 years before--the two front war had strained them so much that, even when Russia pulled out of WWI because of the Bolshevik revolution, and reduced the war down to one front, Germany was already going down in flames. Plus, he and Hitler had the nice little "I don't invade you, you don't invade me, and while we're at it, let's carve up Poland" pact.
So in a nutshell...Stalin made the simple assumption that Hitler was sane, because no sane man in Hitler's position would have attacked Russia.
Whoops.

jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumane.brynmawr.edu]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 10:59:04 PM
IP: spider-to021.proxy.aol.com

To all who disagree with my previous stupid rant:

To quote this man, "you are taking things much too seriously!"

Guys, I realize now that I should not have made the remarks so far. I am truly sorry for them, I want no one in here or anywhere else to die so that I might prosper and live. I never have and I probably never will. What you read before was venting, the honest release of emotions brought on by words I read in here and recent events in my own messed-up life. I thought I could do that in here and be understood, without being pitied or yelled at for it. I guess Pistoff and Aris have proven me wrong. <sighs> Maybe I should stop doing it. Maybe I'll just take out any beefs I have on characters in some video game or the RP from now on, is that what you want? <sighs again> Right now I'm really feeling down, even more than when I made those comments. I feel like I'm willing retract every comment I made in that Monday post just to keep the majority of people in here as good friends. (Some of you I don't care about having as friends, but they are very very few, and if the newcomers stay around long enough the number will decrease to just one.) The fact is, I have a terrible life, and I'm starting to think I can't take it any more. Kit...no, Lisa, her name is Lisa has tried to help me, but even her usual curealls are not working on this bout of depression. I don't know what the cause of it is either, even if I did I'm not sure I should say it to you. I tried to express the feelings it gave me, and I got pitied, screamed at, and called things I do not intend to be. Exactly what I did not want. <hangs head in shame> Guys, I'm not asking for apologies. I will dispense them, however. To everyone who has in the slightest bit been shocked, saddened, appalled, or felt any other possibly negative emotion towards me or the world because of the post I earlier made I am very sorry. If you don't want it to happen again, it won't. For now, though, I think I'll take a hiatus from the Comment Room. Until I can get my feelings in order, at least. Some of you will no doubt be glad to see me leaving. Others may miss me greatly. Right now, I don't know whether or not I care. Yes, I know that sounds callous. Yes, I know I will probably draw even more pity and anger from people because of this. But I still had to say it. I have once again felt myself compelled by my own emotions to express myself honestly, trusting in the consequences to be good. I'm not asking for pity here (even though that's what I may get). I'm not asking for anger either. I'm not asking for attention or feedback (though the latter would be nice). I'm simply asking for friendship and understanding, what I thought this place was about. To those who have given it, I thank you very much. To those who have not, I'm sorry.

Hope you all watched the good Buffy and Angel episodes tonight. Inner Demons is going well, I will now get back to writing it. I just had to say this, and now it is said. Later.
Doug Elder
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 10:43:28 PM
IP: pool-207-205-236-207.dlls.grid.net

Wow...seems I've missed quite a lot...again. IRL things are still kinda crazy around here. I'll get to replies later, but for now I have something urgent to say about the comments of Doug and Green Baron. I would've jumped into this sooner, but I haven't had a chance to read the CR today. Nevertheless, I have to add my two cents....

I'm also disturbed by those comments. I won't go into a rant about it because anything I could say has already been said, and ranting would only keep the flaming going. However, I would like to add one little comment. Doug, you said you hoped a war or virus would wipe out enough people so that you and your family can be prosperous. Well, war and plague are objective--you and your family can be wiped out as easily as anyone else, so _wishing_ for something like that to happen is irresponsible, at best--and just plain appalling.

Now, let's assume that someone does find away to "weed out" the "undesirables." Who will decide who is worthy enough to live and who deserves to die? I'll tell you who--the same people who are in control now--the people who have the money. The people who can afford to offer large bribes to the ones who will pull the trigger. The same kind of people I talked about in my Rant about the local rich folks who want to shut down a homeless shelter because it "makes the neighborhood look bad." In such a situation, the rich make damned sure that they'll come out on top, and the poor people will get the Ultimate Shaft.

How many CR dwellers would be the victims in this scenario? How many of the friends you've made here would be massacred for the sake of convenience for a small, elite group? In such a situation, I would surely be screwed sideways--not that I'd go down without taking out as many of the "worthy" as possible, but that's beside the point--and how many others, who are lucky just to have a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs, whom you consider friends, would you have to watch die? There are a lot of people in here who can't afford a nice place to live or a nice car, people who are barely treading water. Think about this before you suggest such a thing, please.

Now, let's assume you're the one who makes that decision. Could you live with yourself after it's over? Could you live with all the blood on your hands? Would you even be able to make that choice in the first place? It's easy enough to suggest something like this. I could point to any number of people, for any number of reasons, and say, "They don't deserve to live." But what about the point of view of your intended victims? They could very well feel that you or Kit or I or anyone else here deserves to die for any number of reasons.

How would you feel if somebody decided YOU and your loved ones were the ones who should be wiped out? You'd say it's not fair, wouldn't you? You'd be hurt and angry and afraid, right? It puts a different spin on the subject, doesn't it, when _you're_ the one who could be wiped out by a plague or a war, or forced to dig your own mass grave and then gunned down just because you're an inconvenience or because you "lower the property value."

I'm shocked and angry about this, and I had planned to keep going, but I don't want to contribute to yet another flame war. I won't even start on the sterilizing and castration comments, as much as I want to just totally go off about it. Everything else I could say has been said anyway. All I can really add now, Doug and Green Baron, is that I'm disappointed by your callous remarks. Terribly disappointed.

Sorry for the rant, folks. I'll try to catch up on replies as soon as I can....
Pistoff - [phred@koalas.com]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 10:11:40 PM
IP: wire-22.koalas.com

Greetings

Hmm.... Two posts in one night. I need to get a life outside of school and this CR.

Jannie: Obviously you did not read the comment I made closely. I did say "The genetic flaws, if there are any, are then passed to the children." Please note the **if there are any** part of the quotation. I am fully aware of how damage and disease can cause infertility. but I would beware of making sweeping comments about the actual causes of infertility. Low sperm count can be cause by genetic damage, either inherited or caused by a mutegenic agent.[Ref. Carlson, B., Foundations of Embryology, Sixth Edition. McGraw-Hill(1996)]. I was fully aware of other causes when I wrote the comment, it is for this reason that I feel that care should be taken. If the cause is simply due to damage or ilness than there should be no problem. I was merely pointing out the fact that there is the POSSIBILITY of introducing an increased risk of genetic contaimnation into the population.

General comment to all: Please do watch your language in the CR. There may be minors reading this stuff.
Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 10:03:24 PM
IP: dialin35.kitchener.globalserve.net

Hello to all! Joe and I are working on a Latin project... about Atalanta! I just love how Dark Ages parallel so much to the Greek myths. We just wanted to drop a line while we're on the net.

As far as the whole sterilization, Hitler, overpopulation, kids and schools, and all those other rants... we're not going into that. I'll fall back on my favorite reason, "No one is going to win!"

JackaL, JackaL, where for art thou JackaL?
SOROW & Joe
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 09:36:12 PM
IP: dll2a020-0675.splitrock.net

From Random House's Webster's Dictionary

Retort- (ri tort) verb. 1. to reply to sharply. 2. to return an accusation, epithet, etc. upon the person uttering it. 3. A sharp, incisive, or witty reply. 4. The act of retorting.

Hope that clears up what I meant by "No retorting". I meant no harsh remarks that'll lead to hurt feelings. Intelligent conversation is fine, but cursing and throwing profanities left and right in a shouting match is not. Replying is fine, reorting is not. Of coure, there's the other definition of retort that makes no sense in this context...

Retort- A glass bulb with a long neck bent downward, used for distilling or decomposing substances by heat.

Ya hear that? No use of science equipment in this here CR! j/k
Robby
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 09:35:58 PM
IP: spider-ti054.proxy.aol.com

Todd> Vorn was a character from an episode of Freakazoid, a monster summoned by Jeepers who bore a most striking resembelance to the monsters you drew, just check any Freakazoid page under villains, which was ANOTHER brilliant show that would probably be canned due to Pokemon
shogun raptor
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 09:26:43 PM
IP: mia1-wc1.atlas.digex.net

Yggdrasil> ~One thing that people forget when they discuss infertility is that there is a reason why these people have
problems concieving children. The genetic flaws, if there are any, are then passed to the children. We
were designed so that these types of flaws would be bred out of the population because the
individuals that were affected could not breed. By circumventing this safeguard we do open ourselves
to possible genetic problems in the future. We must look at the possible problems that could arise
several generations from now in order to decide on the future of the new reproductive technologies. ~
Ummm.. pardon me? Apparently you are not all that familiar with the many reasons for taking fertility meds. Just because some woman takes these does NOT mean that there are genetic flaws! It could be something as simple as a low sperm count or low estrogen/egg count. Those are not "generic flaws".

I am curious as to who is willing to volunteer to decide who lives and who is not worthy enough to live in order to control the population? Who is willing to allow the government dictate to them how many and/or IF they can have children? Who is such an authority to make a decision or on whether or not someone should have more than 2 children? Sure, there are families that a shitload of kids and not taking care of them - but there are also single children families that are not being taken care of. I know of a family with 11 children and each have grown to be extremely productive and prosperous individuals. Some in here have acted as if it were a crime or that they are disgusted that a couple chooses to have a large family... *blinks* Yes, there are many cases of when a couple should not have made that choice, but there are many more that are success stories. I guess my point is: one of the nice things about living in America is the freedom that we have to make these choices. =)

Welfare and birthing children: welfare increases with each additional child born. If the welfare system was working, then these children would not be starving.... but it doesn't work - it only increases the attitude of selfishness on the parents's part and for long term users of welfare, increases the "laziness" within them. Welfare was never meant to be a form of permanent assistance - as one lady who was being interviewed on a TV show referred to her welfare check as her "paycheck". It has it's benefits - if used as it was originally intended - to give TEMPORARY assistance for those who are in need. For long term disability - there are programs for that. I assure you that abusers and lifers of welfare assistance DO consider how much more they are going to receive from welfare if they have another child. They don't care what the cost is of raising a child because they are not paying for it - taxpayers are. Cut that form of finacial assistance and ten bucks says that the birth rate will decrease for those on welfare.

Casterating those men who do not support their children: I have no problem with that whatsover ;) I don't recall who made the comment/assumption that this only applied to the poor - I know of a case right now that the father makes over $150,000 a year and won't pay the $500 a month for his 2 children and yet of another dad who pays over half of his bring home pay in child support and has never missed a payment in the past 10 yrs. So, where was it said that only the poor do not pay child support? *Responsiblity* doesn't give a rat's toot how much you make each year.


Jannie
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 08:22:18 PM
IP: 168-171-196-78.academicplanet.com

****I'm getting on one of my Bob Larson rants :)****

I'd mentioned about that crooked radio preacher Bob Larson to you, well, he's about to appear on Polically Incorrect tomorrow night and it looks like there will be a suprise for him :)

Kevin Smith, the director of Dogma and Mallrat, is scheduled to appear. Well, the Bob Larson Fan Club got ahold of Kevin's office and sent this nice big fax listing Bob's sins. Seeing how Bob is likely to attack Kevin for making Dogma we thought he might like some ammunition against him :)

Anway, it comes on after Nightline on ABC tomorrow night. It ought to be some interesting TV
Skippy The Klingon
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 08:06:24 PM
IP: uv1-32.ultravision.net

Thanks All for welcoming me here....
so just how do I go about and losing my sanity?
But I do think that my years at high school and the brain washing provied free thanks to the United States Army hasn't left me insane yet.. i don't know what else will... *grin*
Project Kotton - [lynxlynx@hotmail.com]
Seoul, Visiting Korea....
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 07:25:22 PM
IP: 210.183.28.99

*pours a bottle of serenity and good vibes on the CR*


Bronx - [Bronx Wyvern4@aol.com]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 07:22:19 PM
IP: spider-wg023.proxy.aol.com

LEPRECHAUNS - I also noticed that it did parallel "Romeo and Juliet" to such an extent that if Shakespeare was still around today, he could have sued the makers on charges of plagiarism. (Of course, Will didn't come up with that story on his own, but that's another matter....)

I did think that they had a few amusing parts in it, particularly the bit with the secret tunnel, where the Fairy King asks the General who's building it if he absolutely *had* to dig a hole in the ballroom floor during his start on it, and shows a strong desire to be presentwhen the Queen sees the big hole. But much of it did tend to drag.

OVERPOPULATION - I've read arguments on this one that state that overpopulation isn't, in itself, the big problem; after all, each person born means one person who can actually make and grow things. And also that a lot of those food shortages in Third World countries really come about because the local Corrupt Dictator and his henchmen seize up all the food so as to starve their subjects into submission rather than out of any natural cause.

HITLER AND STALIN - Considering how utterly paranoid Stalin was, the big surprise is that he never even anticipated Hitler's invasion of Russia. (Kind of like how Demona, Ms. "I don't trust anyone", never anticipated Thailog betraying her until he had to spell it out in front of her in "The Reckoning" by producing Delilah).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 07:13:40 PM
IP: 216.87.46.154.dialup-stl.primary.net

**Mandi is sitting in her room, looking between the Brit Lit studying, the Assembly Language program, the response paper for American Novel, and the TGS assignment she could be working on, then shrugs and turns to post to the CR.**

**CONTRIBUTION TO THE OVERPOPULATION DEBATE!**

I'm going to have to agree with Jewel that not supporting kids born on Welfare is a bad idea. Aside from everything Jewel already said... how would this prevent people from having kids on Welfare or getting unnecessarily pregnant? It won't. Very few people will think about this beforehand, or go "oh, I'd better not have unprotected sex/get pregnant since my baby won't get any support." Responsibility is the real issue here, like David G. said, and I can't give any simple solution to solving that one.

That's all I have to say.

**END CONTRIBUTION!**

David> **passes over a fresh box of Kleenex**

Gah, I'm a bit off-balance today, forgive my rambling. We've been having some real administrative problems here - namely, with the college president. Some of the students and faculty are fed up, some members of the Board of Trustees actually deigned to come and talk to us, and no one knows what's really going to happen. (Those who do aren't talking.) I'm not going into all the details as to WHY this is happening or it'll turn into a rant, but I'll say that on the students' end it's just an accumulation of "little things" that have been piling up.

Anne re: kittens> Awwww!! Great, now my cat withdrawal's back in full gear! :)

Lady Mystic> **smacks herself over the forehead** Doh! Happy very belated birthday!

Oh, lord, it's after 7 already. I have got to get to work. Hope my ramblings made some sense.
Mandolin
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 07:12:21 PM
IP: 144.175.18.15

Greetings

Wow, I leave the board for a week and it becomes a regular slugfest. Well allow me to put in my 2 cents.

Hitler: I really don't want to touch on this topic except to say that Hitler was just a man. A bigoted, hatefull man, but a man none the less. The horrors committed under his regime could appear again if another person were to take up a cause that the masses believed in to such an extent that they would follow them to the gates of hell and back.

As to if he was evil, or something beyond that, I don't know. His actions are only considered evil because we have something to compare them against. Good and Evil are relative terms. There can't be one without the other. We can now look back and say that his actions were of the darkest depths of evil, but that is also because the allied forces were the victors in the war. Had Hitler won would his actions be considered evil, probably not. The idea of good and evil is such a vast spectrum that there is really no true answer to this question of pure evil and pure good, there are only shades of grey. It is up to the current population to judge where on the spectrum it falls.

Overpopulation: Not going to talk about the sterilization part of this but one thing does need to be addressed. One of the ideas presented on this board was to outlaw the fertility drugs used to aid couples in having children. From my own education I can say that these drugs are a two edges sword. They work, plain and simple, but they can work too well. The number of multiple births have increased in the last 10 years and it is mostly due to the new reproductive technologies. One thing that people forget when they discuss infertility is that there is a reason why these people have problems concieving children. The genetic flaws, if there are any, are then passed to the children. We were designed so that these types of flaws would be bred out of the population because the individuals that were affected could not breed. By circumventing this safeguard we do open ourselves to possible genetic problems in the future. We must look at the possible problems that could arise several generations from now in order to decide on the future of the new reproductive technologies.

TGS Dark Ages: Yeah, its back.
Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 07:06:48 PM
IP: 209.167.129.40

Patrick> I believe Robby was referring to "retort" as in "respond harshly", as opposed to a more diplomatic word, like "reply" or "respond".
Entity
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 06:58:25 PM
IP: ely-oh4-61.ix.netcom.com

Robby wrote "NO retorting to what someone else has said..."

Well, I guess I'm in violation of that decree by bringing this up... but how can there be discussion if we are going to be prohibited from responding directly to earlier comments?

:: puzzled ::
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 06:50:22 PM
IP: 98a61740.ipt.aol.com

*comes in holding a DARK AGES poster*

Hitler> This man was just that - a man. I agree with whoever said we're beginning to become detached from what happened during those horrific years. Schindler's List should be made mandatory viewing-material for schools. The mistake we're making is what's already been stated, that we're dehumanizing Hitler. Hitler was human. That means his actions were within human scope. Humans are capable of what he and his men did. We have to realize that and accept that. And it's not like Hitler and his party have been the first to demonstrate what we're capable of... they're just the most recent and applicable example.

We need to stop dismissing him as this evil entity beyond decription. He _is_ within comprehension, and comprehend him is what we need to do. Like it or not, he had feelings, emotions, etc. just like all of us. Yet look what he did. LOOK.
Entity
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 06:41:03 PM
IP: ely-oh4-61.ix.netcom.com

Okay, I really don't have time to talk about anything going on in here right now, nor do I really care to because I don't really have an opinion on any of this.

I'll just say this now. The Religion, Hitler, and Population debates as well as any others I have missed seem to be causing a bit of a stir. Fine, conversation is what this room is about. (Granted it should try to stick to gargoyles...) But the swearing and flared attitutes I can not accept. Everyone step back, take a deep breath, and return to posting rationally. NO retorting to what someone else has said, no getting angry about opinions. If you must say something, try to be calm about it. Just a warning and friendly reminder now. These are all hot topics, obviously as cursing has already become involved, and I just don't want it any of them escalating into FLAMING hot topics. All right? And remember, we do have at least one 8 year old reader now.

Thank you for not flaming, have a nice day.
Robby the Cr Administrator
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 06:28:26 PM
IP: spider-tm014.proxy.aol.com

I don't have the flu, I don't have the flu, I don't have the flu...
If I say it often enough, maybe it will be true.

Anyway, we have some interesting discussions going on here. I hadn't read that Hitler was a vegitarian. I did see a book the other day that showed that the Nazis were years ahead of anyone else in the subjects of cancer research, nutrition, and similar public health fields. Of course, their reserach was all focused on improving the health of the Arians at the expense of everybody else...

Overpopulation is another interesting issue. I figure the easiest way to handle the problem is to develop really, really good data storage technology. Then we just wait. After the population reaches critical mass, and we have terrible, bloody, devistating wars, along with plauges and sociatial collapse, the few survivors can go to our near invulnerable libraries to pick up all the knowledge they lost. That way, nobody has to be faced with uncomfortable decisions about who gets to live and who gets to die until everybody in this CR is so old that we'll all be among the first to fall.

[The preceding paragraph employed sarcasm, and does not represent the real views of the writer - even though he figures that's pretty much what's going to happen anyway]

***Rant ahead***
The real issue, when you carve away everything else, is personal responsibility. Very few people are willing to accept the true consequences of their decisions. Instead of being concerned with what they SHOULD do, they're concerned with what they WANT TO do. This lifelong immaturity leads to a host of other problems. In fact, practically every problem in the world ultimately stems from selfishness. [examples: Casual sex, which leads to sexual diseases and single parents; drug abuse, which leads to crime, violence, and death]

I'm not willing to speak for any other societies, but in America people are focused on solving these symptomatic problems. While some of their efforts are admirable, they're ultimately doomed to failure. Even if we defeat one symptom, the real disease - lack of personal responsibility - remains, and will continue to cause more problems.

Of course, this has pretty much always been the case. The only real difference is that a single individual is capable of having a much larger impact on the world now than a similar individual would have had even 100 years ago, much less 1000. (The Columbine knifings just doesn't have the same ring, does it?)

And the issue is further complicated by the fact that we can't really stop our social programs. The symptoms are so virulent that we have to keep doing what we're doing, or face even worse problems. We just have to develop a culture of responsibility at the same time.

The irony is that our society of license is resulting in a gradual loss of freedom. The Second Amendment has been castrated by the Supreme Court. Various programs determine what we can say, who we can or can't associate with, and how we raise our children. The government is being forced into, or willingly accepting , the role of Parent for a nation of spoiled children.

I guess that's enough social philosophy for one post. I've been thinking about entering the great religion debate, to try to explain a few things about Christianity (or at least my beliefs about Christianity, which is all I can really do) but there's enough explosives in the room right now that I don't need to be juggling lit torches.
***End Rant***

I guess I'll go now.
I don't have the flu, I don't have the flu, I don't have the flu...
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 05:43:27 PM
IP: pppa46-fortworth12-2r235.saturn.bbn.com

Aris: I give you props for having the balss to say what was on your chest. I saw some of the rant-worthy comments and decided to say nothing because I abhor flame wars. But oh, well. You did what I should have done, and now I'm corecting for my mistake.

And excuse me n advance, because my language is not going to be very pretry right now. In fact, it's going to be a long serious of invectives and expletives.

Sterilization: My God. Dear fucking Christ. This in the same week as discussing Hilter. I think I'm actually going to be ill--I mean, if this isn't an example of us not learning shit from the past...Mein Gott, das Lebes unwertes Leben! Nazi Germnay sterilized over 5% of their population in less than 12 years--are you saying the rest of us should follow suit, and sterilize the life unworthy of life? "Voluntary"...how long before "voluntary" becomes a relative term? Before you just cut out that middleman of getting permission?

Not supporting children born on welfare: What the fuck kind of hyper-conservative bull-fucking-shit is that crap?!!? have you *ever* see the sorry-ass state these poor kids are in the fucking begin with?!!? What, because their parents fucked up, these kids have to suffer? I'm sorry, but I've seen one too many kid that was underdevelopped and lived through fucking hell because of poeverty, and that was when they were getting welfare. Ever seen an 18 month old who can't walk or talk because they weren't feed enough? And why weren't she fed enough? Her 2 1/2 year old sister was stealing her bottle at night because it was the only way she would get enough to eat. Look into the eyes of a child that's slowly starving to death and whom everyone thinks is mentally handicapped because she's underdevlopped, and then you fucking say to take away welfare.
Her name was Sasha.

And as for takling them out of toxic homes...and put them *where*? There's a huge difference between the number of kids needing good homes and good homes. Not too many happy smiling (White) couples out there want to take in the jet-black ghetto 12 year old whose grew up in a place where a 12 year old virgin is as rare as fucking shit and whose mother was on crack?!!?
Her name was Karey.
Or how about the 13 year old who grew up learning how to steal because it was the only way to get anything.
His name was Michael.
Or the 18 month old whose mother tried to suffocate her when she was 3 months old, and who was just taken out of the only home she's known--a foster home where she was raised by a woman in her 60's, who gave her up because she was swtiching programs so she could take care of kids where they'd pay her $1000 a month instead of $300.
Her name was Whitney.
And as for these "not toxic homes"...I already told y'all about one of my foster sisters, who was put into a new foster home and raped after a week.
Her name was Stacy.
jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 05:35:31 PM
IP: spider-wa042.proxy.aol.com

I won't start a flame war therefore this is my only post on the subject even if people reply (in whatever way they desire), but I *have* to say some things. And I'm not going to be gentle.

********** RANT **********

Green Baron/Doug> You know, sometimes the things you two guys say, scare me, especially when noone reacts negatively to them and I wonder if that's what all of the US thinks...

Doug> <<When too many members of one species are present in nature, it is more likely than not that the vast majority of them will be various sorts of idiots and weaklings who should not exist>>

And I guess that you place yourself in the shining minority which still has a right to exist?

Here's a quote: "..the assembled Brethren mentally divided the universe into the deserving and the undeserving, and put themselves on the appropriate side."

You know, man, I also know people that I think they should not exist. There was a guy here in Athens who two weeks ago went on a killing spree against muslims and immigrants- he killed 2 immigrants and injured about ten more before he was captured. A couple months before that, two young men killed a Nigerian with a dagger and tried to frame an Albanian for the murder. And it's not just haters who kill people: Flawed construction in buildings (so as to save money) caused the deaths of tens of people in the recent earthquakes. In Turkey, it caused the deaths of *thousands*.

There are nationalists and fascists. There are imperialist politicians who want a bite off neighbouring countries. There are demagogues who would not hesitate using nationalism and racism to get some extra votes. There are columnists in newspapers who support them. There are Neonazi and racist parties. There are religious fanatics. There are people who may have commited no legal crimes at all but who nevertheless are knee-deep in the *blood* of the innocent.

And you think that the ones who shouldn't exist are "sports stars", "rich popular snobs", "sluts", "jerk-losers", "selfish pretty boys" and "girls who are like the Friends cast"??

You really have a serious problem with facing reality if you think that these people are a problem. I *wish* that some of the people I referred to above were like those people which *you* referred to. The "sluts" you despise don't have as much blood on their hands as the people who *I* despise.

<<Hopefully by the time Kit and I are able to have children of our own some big war or epidemic will have happened that will really cut down the number of people in the world.>>

Why the hell don't you start cutting down the number of people yourself? I think there was a bomber in some government people over there who made a fine start on the subject. Those people who went on a shooting spree inside a school - they did yet another. Why don't you poison some food products, place some explosives, buy a gun and start shooting people? You'll be doing everyone a favour.

Or better yet: *Choose* three out of every four people here, and three out of every four of your friends and say that you *hope* we must die, so that the minority that remains will have a blast over our bodies. I think that your friends will very much appreciate it. Draw lots and kill three out of every four people in your group and take their property: the surviving ones will be *four* times as rich.

That you *hope* for a war so that you are going to have a better quality of life is as disgusting as anyone can get.

Green Baron> <<Western Europe has a very low birth rate and the Governments are encouraging people to have children. Instead, these nations should end their stupid social programs and allow in immigrants from the the thrid world who will be productive citizens and bless the socialist economies>>

Though I'm not a socialist, I have to say that those "stupid social programs" have been to some extent a great benefit to them. In some Scandinavian countries 50% of children born by single mothers wouldn't be strange nor unacceptable - the mothers know they are going to have the state's support. And crime rate is far, far lower in Europe than in America - European "social programs" just might have something to do with that too. The individual child is supposed to be a responsibility of the society here - not a responsibility of just one's parents.

<<1. Make child vaccinations optional>>

How will that curb overpopulation? Is it by allowing disease to kill children? If so why don't we do it faster: at the age of three we'll just kill off one out of every four children. That will help curb overpopulation, too.

<<2. Raise retirement age to 80.>>

How will that curb overpopulation?

<<4. Double sales tax on boxers and eliminate sales tax on tight underwear. >>

I do have to say that I admire the subtlety of this one... :-)

<<6. Do NOT grant welfare benefits to children born on welfare. In fact, take those children out of toxic homes and offer increased welfar benefits for voiluntary sterilization.

Why connect welfare with sterilization? Why not offer money to everyone, poor or wealthy who'll accept sterilisation? Perhaps because it's not overpopulation that bothers you, but overpopulation of poor minorities?

<<7. Castrate and father who will not pay for children he created. Dead beat dads tend to have lots of illegitemate children. Let's nip that in the bud. >>

Ah, *castrating*. Not even sterilising. Way to go, man. *Way* to go! Obviously only the wealthy must be allowed to have children. Poor people having children must be destroyed, they must shudder before thinking to breed, before trying to destroy the class purity of the society. Castrating them will be for their own good.

******** END RANT ************

Fire Storm> <<I am not too fond of Hitler, but there were some interesting things about him, such as he was an strong enviromentalist, he loved kids, loved animals, and was aa vegitarian>>

<raises eyebrow> Does that imply that being a vegetarian is somehow morally superior to not being one? I can understand (though disagree with) the other comments but how does being a vegetarian fit in among them?
Aris Katsaris - [katsaris@otenet.gr]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 04:50:22 PM
IP: athe530-c092.otenet.gr

My alot of people using blue today ^-^;;

*looks at all of the water on the floor* Here kitty kitty kitty......

Heh Anyway, this has been a stressful couple of days for me, because it appears that my school has been receving threats. It was sent via snail mail saying that if one of the girl swimmers on the team did not die then on Wednesday all of the school would suffer and die. Of all of the sports they had to pick.. swimming? why not football? That might sound a little weird...eh n/m Now, is that scary or what?! Not to mention the fact that our school ranks the second highest academically next to Columbine. I'm so worried right now, hopefully my mom will be merciful and let me stay home ::sighs:: Why does the world have to be like this?

Onto less worrisome things, if anyone is interested in reading some of my fanfic, go to www.egroups.com or clicky on my name. Then, find the egroups called "DarkAngel's Fanfic Mailing list" The fic is called "The Trials and Journeys: J" Tell me what you think!

Cya later all
Bronx - [Bronx Wyvern4@aol.com]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 04:22:36 PM
IP: spider-wd023.proxy.aol.com

Oh, forgot something:

Hitler wasn't the only high-anking Nazi who couldn't stand the side of blood. Goering (or Goebbels, I just remember the "Goe") went to go watch the mass shootings/CO gassings in Russia, and became physcially ill. The result? More booze for the troops (most of them were drunk during this stuff anyway) and a search for a more "humane" (for the *German troops*) way of killing. That's why they started using Zyklon-B. and if any of you wants to read a good book on how ordinary Germans could become killers, read "Ordinary Mean" by Christopher Browning... and avoid "Hitler's Willing Executioners" by Goldhagen--that PoS is a decuidedly strong example of bad historiography and scholarship.

As for evil...in my mind, Hitler himself wasn't as evil as someone like Dr. Josef Mengele (The Angel of Death). In my mind, Hitler was insane...Menegle was pure evil.
jewel
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 03:47:27 PM
IP: spider-tj043.proxy.aol.com

Greetings from Ga! Yup, I moved. I arrived here Saturday, and can I just say how much I lovwe being able to wear shorts in November? The only other news I have is that my stupid snake bit me. I was about ready to find out if snake really does taste like chicken...

Hitler: Hoo, what a can of worms. And, of course, I'm diving in with relish, since my degree kinda is in WWII Germany...
Hitler was a nutcase. He was *not* a figurehead. He had too much power, and managed it frightfully well, by means of constant chaos. He divided his own minions with minor power struggles that none of them could take power from him. The Hitler myth was the order of the day--the name of the Fuehrer and the wishes of the Fuehrer, spoken or simply implied--were paramount, and in the struggle to gain more power in the Party, whoever was the bigger Hitler zealot did the best.
Yes, he was insane. the reasons and nature and extent of said insanity will likely be debated for a long time to come--the one testacle theory, the perverted sex feind obssessed with his neice theory, the "just plain evil" theory--and for a good overview of the various theories, rad "Explaining Hitler" by Rosenbaum.
Was Hitler evil? Or was he beyond evil? These are questions asked as well. Evil, yes. But there is a scary contigency nowadays that says he was something *beyond* himan in his evil. I say scary because it tries to take away his humanity by demonizing him, and for better or worse, he was human. He was one extreme of the spectrum of human nature, and we have to accept the bad as well as the good--if we want to claim Mother Theresa as human, we'd better be prepared to claim Hitler as well. If we say that there is nothing in us that could create a Hitler--he was a sheer abberation--then we open up the potential to create another.
The revisionists are a scary bunch as well. There are some who argue that the rise in revisionism was what lead to Primo Levi's suicide--a common nightmare while in the Arbeitslager was the that of surviving and going home, and having no one beleive you when you told what had happened--one of teh most wrenching, I think, retellings of this dream in his Levi's "Se questo e un uomo" ("If This is a Man," the American edition called "Survival in Auschwitz," per Levi's own request). The revisionists do have one ...almost...legitimizing side-effect: they cause the historians to have to constantly check their facts, to prove things angain, and to cease to be complacent. (One must see the silver lining even in the crappiest situations, and all that rot...)
But, I wonder...why is so little attention focused on the other mass murders since the Holocaust? I think we're so certain of our "It'll never happen again" attitude that we've ignored when it *has*--Cambodia, Rwanda...

And on that depressing note...

jewel - [Jewel.Faulkner@alumnae.brynmawr.edu]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 03:41:02 PM
IP: spider-tj043.proxy.aol.com

**Reverend Attila walks into the CR with a remote. He presses the remote and a fiberglass tub with shower appears. Green Baron steps out the shower and seconds later, he sees everyoen staring at him, so he goes right back in. Attila laughingly hands the Baron a towel. Once he is covered, he grabs the remote form Attila and sends him five feet above the pool.**

Hello, all. Attila will clean up the water, when he dries off.

Project Kotton> Welcome to the insanity.

Doug> I fear you are looking at thgings too gloomily, my friend. The world population is growing at a slower growth rate. Even though we have gone up to six billion, largely because of advances in technology and health care, plus child vaccinations and the Industrial Revolution, the population rate is not growing as fast. One thing taht shoudl eb looked at is that overpopulation is more a result of poverty tahn a cause. In many countries, people had lots of children because of high infant mortality rates and the need to have children that would survive even after birth. We are in a transition throughout the world and what most of these countries need is to experience the Industrial Revolution and advance their technology and living standards. America's average family is less than 2 children per family. This numbers needs to dwindle so we can have room for immigrants who will come to America and make it great again. Western Europe has a very low birth rate and the Governments are encouraging people to have children. Instead, these nations should end their stupid social programs and allow in immigrants from the the thrid world who will be productive citizens and bless the socialist economies with the gift of capitalism.

The idiots you are concerned with are mainly Americans, though. I have some ideas on how to lower the population in America so we can open our borders to immigrants who will be cynical of Government social programs and do for this country what the Irish did for America a century ago. And soon those immigrants will be productive citizens with a patriotism that the babyboomers will never comprehend.

Here is my idea of how we can curb overpopulation in America:

1. Make child vaccinations optional
2. Raise retirement age to 80.
3. Outlaw all fertility drugs
4. Double sales tax on boxers and eliminate sales tax on tight underwear.
5. Reduce overpriced life extending treatments in Medicaid and Medicare.
6. Do NOT grant welfare benefits to children born on welfare. In fact, take those children out of toxic homes and offer increased welfar benefits for voiluntary sterilization.
7. Castrate and father who will not pay for children he created. Dead beat dads tend to have lots of illegitemate children. Let's nip that in the bud.

I hope those aren't too harsh. I tend to prefer methods that also promote responsibility. As for stupid peopel, we need to strip idiots of tehir power. Stupid people serve a purpose as an exploitable underclass who can make life more convenient for those of us who use our resources better :)

Sevarius Jr> You didn't step on any toes, though the countries with the overpopulation problems are not ones where the general religions oppose birth control. The best thing we can do is to increase education there, and reduce eldercare funds in these areas.

Anne> The wierd part is that when I first met Jessica, I was planning to enter the priesthood, so she knew I was Catholic. When she told me she was Penetcostal, she aked me if I was bothered by it, and I said, "Not at all." She was also greatly disturbed that I kissed her on the first date and she enjoyed it, which made her feel guilty. I guess it woke me up in some ways since I never experienced any anti-Catholic predjuidce before that.

BTW, I am curious about the program your taking, since I've only heard about Catholic homeschooling for a few years. Is Latin part of your carriculum?

I am also impressed by your writings and I recommend you get soem stuff published in articles if you can, to start a name for yourself. I also wish you well in getting to College early. My grandfather was 19 when he grduated from Fordham, and it has always impressed me.

Cherry Blossom> I empathize with your experience. My kids will get socialization from CYO. I imagine your church offers an equivalent.

Firestorm> I don't know if you said what you did to inspire conversation and controversy, or if you beleive what you said, but I recommend you read Mein Kampf.

The main problem we had with Hitler was no one took him seriously. That dip$h*t Neville Chamberlain gave in to his demands. Churchill knew what Hitler was and he used his knowledge to defeat Hitler. Even Stalin was caught by Hitler with his pants down.

I find the fact that Hitler was a vegetarian to be somewhat ironic and amusing. Hitler was also squeamish at the site of blood. Learning that made me laugh.

Valentine> You have soem good points. More food is being grown on more land with the increases in technology, but we should do some things to curb our population to make room for new Americans who will be very patriotic in the next generation.

Jenna> You have some good points about the targeting for overpopulation. Maragret Saenger proposed a plan to use birth control to reduce the black population in America and Planned Parenthood always likes to send their birth control to non-white countries with Catholic majorities like the Phillipines.
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 02:29:15 PM
IP: 141.164.133.103

Firestorm- uhm, no I haven't forgotten the Cival war, the acts of genocide to Native Americans, the use of internment camps. I know all about these dirty little secreats. I dont' get on my high horse and saw America is great, yadda, yadda yadda. I don't say the plege of Allegence. I don't swear undying loyalty to my country. Sorry, been called a traitor, but i don't. I agree that America has done some things it should be ashamed off, all nations have. All races have.

Hitler did do those things that you state, but does his personal life out weigh the evil he brought? In reality, does it really matter at all in the light of what he did?

jenna
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 02:14:28 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Jaden: Stopping: Thank you.
They never stopped when they hit my Emily. <sniff>

Warpmind: Healing hands: Well, The Outer Limits did a similar story where a woman had her egg switched with one that contained DNA from the shroud, and I didn't hear any complaints about that one.
Pooh: Personally, I like Pooh. My co-workers thought it was juvanile that I bought LM some Pooh merchandise.

Wilek: MP3: Virtuosa. My main problem with it is that whenever it moves to another song, it takes me back to that program (VERY annoying when you are trying to read the CR.) ALSO, when doing that last night, I couldn't click back to the CR. I had to press ALT-TAB to get back to the CR.
How fast does your ripper encode? No matter what system I use (my p150 laptop to my p3 450 desktop) they all rip at the same blasted speed: .4x to .7x!

Xanathar: No ads? WOAH! How can this be? Hell, here in the states I have seen infomercials (READ: 30 minute ads) interupted by ads!

jenna: Actually, my family and LM had a discussion about this at dinner the other night. My father brought up the interesting point that most of the damage was caused by his generals and leaders who developed the methods for killing and such. Don't get me wrong, I am not too fond of Hitler, but there were some interesting things about him, such as he was an strong enviromentalist, he loved kids, loved animals, and was aa vegitarian. Kinda does not fit the traits of most killers, eh?

Do not forget that the United States has killed more people than Stalin or Hitler. Remember your history when we gave small pox infected blankets to the indians?
And speaking of concentration camps, does anyone else remember what we did do asians during WWII? Thats right... rounded them up in concentration camps, didn't feed them too well, and alot of them died.
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 02:05:25 PM
IP: t1-31.visitus.net

Overpopulation- Don't really know the answer to this, and really I don't think anyone does. One thing I must bring to light however is an old quote from Scrouge by Charles Dickens. Scrouge at one point says its better for the poor to die to "decrease the surplus population". Later when he witnesses Tiny Tim dying, the ghost throws those same words back at him. He's ashamed.

I like that little bit, because it really brings a very ugly fact to light. When people talk about decreasing population, they target the lower classes first, not the higher class. They also tend to target more ethnic minority groups as opposed to higher income whites. If were going to "decrease overpopulation" shouldn't we do it all across the board, rich and poor, rather than target a "less desirable" bracket of society?

Michael and I are going thorough an extremely rough time finacially, so were not having kids now. But we do intend of having them, later, when things are not so tight. I wonder if people would look at us as we are now, and say, "They don't deserve to breed". Never mind that we are trying to improve our lot financially. And also there is the element of race, in our case. I have been told by people in rl that because of the difficulties interracially mixed kids in society have, that there shouldn't be any. --what? Were doing our kids a favor by not having them? What kind of logic is that?

jenna
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 01:45:12 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Wilek > I knew there'd be at least one ... as Dogbert said, "puns ... never apologize, never explain." ; )

Overpopulation > I know my attitude has shifted greatly; I saw a commercial the other day in which a family was getting a home loan just in time, and they had three kids and the woman was preggers ... and my reaction wasn't "awww, what a cute family!" as it might once have been but "four kids?! how (bleep) irresponsible!" Trouble is, too many people out there are like this guy I used to work with ... utter dorks but convinced that _they_ have such great genes it's to the benefit of all for them to have lots of kids. ::sigh::

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 01:04:19 PM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net

Spike & TGS illos> I don't see any problem with that. Since it is your work you have as much or more title to it than the group does. If you want to use other artist's work, you'll have to contact them. I'd say go for it. Just don't follow the kid who has a firemen for a dad. That's one act that's hard to beat.

NBC's Leperachans> Have to agree. If I wanted to see Romeo & Juliet I'd have rented the video. And if I wanted to watch Riverdance too. It did harken me back to the seventies and Blaxploitation films. For those who may not know, Blaxploitation films were very bad B rated movies with black folks as main characters. Often done by people who that putting a dashiki on meant you were back to your African roots. I could see that similiar lack of depth in Leperchans. Take afew sterotypes, toss in some special computer effects and you have a classic, right. Wrong. I couldn't rant all day on this, but I'll just say that it wasn't worth the time spent watching it.

Hitler> I'm sort of stuck in the Scylla and Charbydis conundrum here. On the one side, there is a growing movement to pretend that the holocaust didn't exists. On the other, a very strong mindset that Hitler was a madman, and such madness should be dismiss because it can't happen to normal ordinary people. The Holocaust did happen, but it is just as important to know that people participated in it. This wasn't just the scheme of one man. People took part in this. It's important to know what we are capable of otherwise this will happen again. Thought given history and my cynical nature, it will happen again, it's just a matter of time and opportunity.

That's the down side of humanity. It keeps repeating the same old tune. Just once, I'd like to see the human race do something truly original.

As far as the condition of the world. Doug, I disagree with you that the world is somehow on the wrong course. I think it's exactly where we want it to be. Granted, it doesn't say much about us that we allow others to suffer and die in pain, but I think it's very accurate. Kaito, you forgot the 11th commandment. If enough people believe in something it is true. (Nothing is stronger than mass stupidity) If only I could harness that stupidity, I could rule the world! (Excuse me, just a touch of meglomania.)

Gotta go
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 01:02:40 PM
IP: 134.71.32.54

The Gargoyles CCG is coming!
On the topic of population control, and possible solutions to it: I once read a well-done sci-fi story about a future wherein a dietary scheme worked out by the government caused all humans to grow to no taller than 4 feet...thereby solving problems of housing and food supply. Wish I could remember who wrote it.
Anyone here fans of Beast Wars and/or Beast Machines?
Be seeing you...
Galvatron - [tbramfeld@hotmail.com]
Our Lady, IN, USA
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:50:06 AM
IP: bramfeld-1a.student.nd.edu

Cherry Blossem- really liked your comments regarding homeshcooling. Thanks for the info.
jenna
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 11:09:51 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Spike- Thanks. Took a look- can see there point. I may put on my private site though.
jenna
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 10:54:24 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Well- I think I'll try the Phoenix Gate Pic-

Don't you just hate it when someone has a good idea, and the delivery is terrible. I'm talking about Leprechans- oh, it was TERRIBLE!!! UGH!!! It started off with such a good idea, but it was totally botched. :P Yck!

We had a four alarm fire at our old complex- all the electircity for the entire complex was shut off- it was away from where we were living, so that good. I hope no one was hurt, and I feel sorry for those who had there place burned. The management where we are now is so stingy, I think they'll try to stick them with charges, there just the kind of people that would do that type of thing.

Fire storm- regarding Hitler comments-- *Deep Breath* well, I really think your wrong on this one. I don't think Hitler was misunderstood, in fact I think he did exactly as he wanted to do, except he didn't succeed in wiping out the jewish race. To me Hitler is evil, and there are no apologies on my part for that opinon.

As we get further and further away from the event of the holocost, we seem to become more inclined to believe that it wasn't really as bad as people say it was. But it was. I think there was never more of a need to educate people on this atrocity, and on Hitler himself. REad Mein Kamph ("My struggle") that Hitler wrote- pretty disturbing stuff. The attiude that Hitler/the Holocost wasn't that bad, really frightens me. Weather this is done because it is more comfortable to believe he wasn't, or just lack of information, or under the pesdo sophesitication on being politically correct/artistic (and I'm referring to the Legos bit a month ago- ) the result is the same. Intentional, or not, it makes it easier to excuse the evil done. There is no excuse, and it was evil. Period. Some will say I'm too black and white on this issue, but for me I think we all should be. There is a saying, "All evil needs to thrive is for good men to be silent." We live in very silent times.

I don't mean this personally against you Firestorm, so please do not take this as a personal attack. You may want to educate yourself a little more on this topic. I know he was a vegetarian, but that doesn't excuse what he did.

Change of topic--My hubby just called--the complex did have a major fire. On one building, there is no top floor where the fire was- that's kind of unnerving because we are on the top floor...:/



jenna
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 10:52:14 AM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Jenna>>
Your answer's up in the MGC room. Just passing it along.

TGS staffers>>
I've got to visit my son's classroom this week and talk about being a freelance artist. Would it be all right if I bring along some of my TGS illos to talk about story illustrations?
Spike
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 10:12:58 AM
IP: ppp17-11.ght.iadfw.net

Quick post now. Real post later (if I have time)
Doug> I'm probably not going to finish Freelance 4 any time soon. I tried to work on it last week, and spent three hours writing one paragraph over and over. I need to work on my novel anyway. I won't be really comfortable about it until I'm two chapters ahead of my deadline.

Sorry for anyone who's disappointed about that. I hope the novel proves to be worth the wait.

Valentine> I'll be glad to tell you about Changeling. How much other World of Darkness stuff are you familiar with? If you know Mage, I can use that as a point of context in my explination.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 09:09:16 AM
IP: 198.215.20.3

Sevarius Jr.> re: parent's raising disrespectful thugs who have no sense of responsiblity.... AMEN!! *stands and applauds* Took the words right out of my mouth! I see this first hand on a daily basis and you are soooooo absolutely correct and hit the nail on the head!
Jannie
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 07:16:30 AM
IP: 196-066.c.esc4.net

Gunjack Valentine wrote: "As for food, think about how much of the world's farmable surface is actually being used for food. Soil isn't consumed when used like oil is, so the land will last until we either destroy it or outgrow the maximum amount that can be produced. Drive across america and check out how much of our country is actually being used to grow food."

Just because you have dry land doesn't mean you have arable land - i.e., land that can be farmed. Even before man started building cities and paving roads, there was vastly more land in the world that was insuitable for farming than there was land that would support it.

It is also grossly incorrect to say "soil isn't consumed when used." Crops exract nutrients from the soil they grow in. You can't get something (i.e., a plant) from nothing. Modern methods of farming rely heavily on fertilizers and crop rotation to overcome this problem, yet it is still possible to farm an area to the point where the soil is exhausted. This is why the problem of "slash and burn" farming exists in many less developed areas of the world - a patch of land is cleared of trees, farmed until nothing will grow anymore, and then abandoned for a newly cleared plot.

It's also incorrect to assume that food yield is only proportional to the ammount of land farmed. Less land in the United States is used for food crop farming today than was in use at the turn of the century, yet the country's population has grown by over tenfold since that time. The reason that is possible lies with the progress of farming technology. The key lies not in obtaining more land for farming, but in increasing the yield of the land already in use and sustaining its ability to continue producing crops year after year (see above).

In actuality, the shortage here at the tail end of the 20th century lies not in the producing food, but in transporting it to where it is needed. The United States, Europe, and the former Soviet Union have produced excesses of food from farming for decades. The reasons we see (and will continue to see) people starving in countries like Ethiopia - or even on our own streets here - are due to the socioeconomic forces that keep that excess production rotting in storage rather than being doled out to those who could make use of it.

No, in a country where the government runs programs that pay farmers NOT to grow certain crops, it's not possible to argue that there's a shortage of farming production.

</MINI-RANT>
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 07:12:52 AM
IP: abd31924.ipt.aol.com

Hi all!!

Welcome to all newcomers.

cherry blossom:<<I'm just curious.. how many of you actually watch Gargoyles on a regular basis?? so many people lately have told me that they don't actually watch the show even though they have cable and frankly, this confuses me. If I had cable I would watch it every night my mom wasn't home.... *g*>>Well Disney channel Australia took Gargoyles off it's line up back in october,but fortunately I have every EP on tape(even better,they are completely uncensored and at the time I taped them Disney didn't put adverts in their shows so the eps are completely ad free)

Lady Mystic:Welcome back!

Kaioto:great post as ever*reads the Ten Commandments of the Elementary School: (V.1.0)*I think I've brocken at least three of those rules in my time,I'm a baaaad boy!!>;)(number nine especially,I've never been popular in my entire life)

New Darkages ep:Good ep,the ending was completely unexpected.

Warpmind:Relax,there's no way I'd Joyride Tom Jones(my mum used to be a fan)

**THE JOYRIDE**

The Joyriders are driving around Las Vegas looking for a good place to begin their search for the batteries needed for Warpmind's time machine.

"Okay we may as well check out one of these casino's while we are here"said Warpmind.

"we'll go for that one up ahead"said Jack pointing towards a particularly tacky neon light covered building and then gunning the hearses engine.

up ahead at the door to the casino a bellhop was inspecting his uniform for crease marks and looked up just in time to see the Cthulu bearing down on him.The bellhop sceamed and leaped out of the way as the heavily modified hearse smashed through the glass doors to the casino,shortly after paniced paitrons ran out of the building screaming their heads off.

"Aww Crud!!,how are we supposed to play some poker with nobody around" said Xanathar slightly disapointed.

Sounds of movement could be heard comming from the other end of the building where a stage had been set up.

"It's comming from behind the curtins" said Wilek as pistoff went up to investigate.

"Well look what we have here"said Pistoff"It's Jerry Seinfeld"said the Joyrider's in unison.

**TO BE CONTINUED**

Goodnight all!!
Xanathar
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 06:58:49 AM
IP: melnc01.bigpond.com

ROBBY - Ah, I remember that character now. I'd forgotten that episode of "Freakazoid" until you mentioned it. IMO, it's most likely a case of parallel sources - i.e., both I and the "Freakazoid" production team had Cthulhu in mind. Thanks.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 06:42:35 AM
IP: 216.87.46.39.dialup-stl.primary.net

Oops...

**RP!**

[The scene is in the room where Solomon Brand is monitoring Asil and Storm Eagle's joyride. His mysterious assistants, Griffex and the others, are also there, watching and looking quite amused. Thing is, they're not human or anything like it. Choketaur, who looks for all the world like a cross between a centaur and a wingless gargoyle--to the untrained eye, at least--remarks, "You were so right about these cretins, Sol; I'd be amazed if they could fight their way out of a paper bag! <L>" Griffex, who looks something like a humanoid eagle with nine foxlike tails, adds, "Indeed. I'd almost keep these goons around for entertainment value! Hahaha!" Sol: "Hear here; I'll almost be sorry to have to take these guys down." The triple voices of what could be mistaken for three identical gargoyles with wings of fire, ice, and lightning toss in their two (six?) cents: "Why don't we wait and see what other mischief they get themselves into?" Sol: "Agreed. This should be fun..."]

**END RP!**

Project Kotton> Welcome! :D Go have your sanity extracted. (Kewl name BTW.)

Lady Mystic> Welcome back, friend! <hugZ> <<A nearby CVS store (formerly Arbors) had Halloween items on the rack down one side on their main central isle and Christmas items down the opposite side.>> There's a twisted irony there I just love. ^_^ Puppy Girl's situation> Hm...I'm afraid I have no idea what to tell you there. :/

Green Baron> <<Maybe you should use some passowrd protection devices to keep them from going where they shouldn't be.>> Ye know, Zath, I think Winzip has something like that, where you have to enter a password to unzip a file.

Kaioto> I'm sad to say that those ten commandments for public school can be seconded by anyone who's gone to the local toilet that dares to refer to itself as an educational facility. <sigh>

Doug> <<Hopefully by the time Kit and I are able to have children of our own some big war or epidemic will have happened that will really cut down the number of people in the world. I don't mean to be callous, but I really think this needs to happen. The many need to die in order for the few to have better lives (cite the reasons above). Hope that when whatever catastrophe is coming does arrive, the survival of the fittest principle holds true and all the idiots, losers, obnoxious lunatics, corrupt politicians, layabout egotistical celebrities, selfish manipulators, bad-tempered hateful street preachers and soccer moms, popularity-crazed star of Aaron Spelling or Kevin Williamson show wannabes, and other various assorted forms of slime we've spawned are the ones who die.>> I'm given to agree, but knowing the Iron Law Of Murphy...<shudder> <<I can't help but have the creativity demon, though, that things will turn out like the film Devil's Advocate with Mulder in Keanu's role, CSM in Pacino's, and Fowley's in that of the Dark Madonna.>> Hm...Is this a very good movie?

Anne> <L> Your Trio kittens sound adorable. ^_^

Cherry Blossom> <<what do you guys think about dating online?? I recently started dating a guy over the net and every one in my town is totally on my back about it and the fact that he might not really be who he says he is.... what do you think??>> Um...I can't really answer this, since I have little use for dating anyhow. :)

SJ> <<once again, I spent the evening being told how worthless and stupid I am by members of my own family.>> Ugh. I'm really sorry to hear that. (Not to mention ticked off at the kind of person who could say such a thing to a family member. >:/ )

Fire Storm> <<Lets just say that they thought that my liking Gargoyles was infintile BUT those same people found it ok to spend hundreds of dollars on Pokemon crap AND can name each and every Pokemon IN ORDER.>> Let me guess, your former cow-orkers at Office Depot? <sigh> I am so glad you've escaped that place. <<And don't get me started on Whinnie the Pooh.>> Ugh, that little beast must meet a horrible end. <<I am really starting to hate my MP3 ripper.>> Which one do you have? I have MusicMatch Jukebox, and it works pretty well.

Robby> <<Vorn the Unspeakable was from a Freakazoid episode. Large guy with garg wings and a squid for a face.>> Woah...a member of Cthulhu's species?! Kewl! I really have to find this show...

Gunjack> <<No, I'm not Y2K compliant>> Does that mean you'll implode at the end of this year? :P <<I'm looking for a rundown of the story of "Changeling: the dreaming".>> Figures; the one White Wolf game I *don't* have...

Christine> I saw Ebon's infamous Healing Hands pun. <Hudson accent> I dinna get it.
Wilek Nereus
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 06:37:56 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

...
Wilek Nereus
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 06:37:18 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

Okay, found a new computer. Replies will commence.

Jaden: Sorry if I was bugging you with that insect joke...

Lady Mystic: When I said that the term "newbie" was "bad", I said it half in jest. But seriously, the term does have a lot of negative... suggestions to it.

And Toku Kaioto does it again; Yet Another Brilliantly Written Post... I'm with ya, man. I'v been there, as well (The only seventh-grader with a physique like a first grader... believe you me, I got picked on a LOT! But I learned a great deal about humor as a defense that way... and of course, how to perform severely sadistic and non-traceable acts of vandalism, and how to blame the ones who picked on me...) but I'm a far better person now than in those days, having gained through "flashes" a better understanding and respect for life in its entirety. With the obvious exception of the human race, of course. ;)

Anne: If you keep an eye on the RPs running, like the Joyride, for instance, you might get an idea... someone in the RP gets an idea, writes an event, and the someone else gets a new idea based upon the previous, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on... As for your kittens: Awww...

Cherry Blossom: I'd watch Gargoyles... only two slight problems: I don't have my own TV, I don't have my own VCR... and my sister has borrowed the tapes, with no set date for returning them. :( As for the dating online... be careful. There are ways to find out if he is who he claims to be... Just call the local Illuminati office... It Is Their Business To Know Everything... ;)

Fire Storm: Hey, what's wrong with Winnie the Pooh? Mom's ADDICTED! And my sister just about freaks every time she uses the PC at my folks' place... 'cause guess what kind of desktop theme it has? Yup, Winnie the Pooh background, system sounds, mouse pointers, EVERYTHING! I think it's kind of cute...

Overpopulation: Well, I can say this much in my defense: I haven't contributed to the problem, myself... yet.

Well, then. I guess I should read the new episode, then.

Later.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 04:45:50 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

Quick post. more to come later.

*** Spoilers for new Dark Ages ep ***

Once again I was fairly dissappointed. This story was better than last weeks, but still, I don't really think the Archmage is that great of a villain, at least not the way he is portrayed here. And I would also like to point out the number of times in here that Batman/Superman have been criticized because we see the story of the enemy, and the heros are just there to stop them. That felt too much like what this story was. Sure there were some good points about the history of the clan and the area, but what it comes down to is this question: Is the Archmage a good enough villain to sustain an episode? My answer is no. What we have is a guy who cares only about himself and power, and that is the extent of his character. Not only that, but we knew at the start he wouldn't win. Part of what made Xanatos such a great bad guy was that even when the Gargoyles thought they won, he benefitted from it somehow. Look at episodes like The Edge and Metamorphosis. The archmage never wins even a small victory. I'm sorry, but this story just wasn't that great.

*** End Spoilers ***
T. J. Veil - [hiddenagenda@rocketmail.com]
Ames, IA
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 04:17:58 AM
IP: welch-roberts-187-24.res.iastate.edu

Hi, guys. May not have time for all the replies in this post; may have to finish later.

Fire Storm: I supplied the iBrator link, not Wilek. And I, too, hope it is a joke...

Christine: So, Avalon Mists is due in two weeks? And I am working on a filk even now... A love song from Goliath to Elisa... by the tune of "Green, green grass of home"... I'll try to keep the mushy bits out, but be afraid... be very afraid... As for "The boy with the healing hands", well, I liked it, but that pun of Ebon's was dreadful. And my reaction was almost identical to Owen's. ("Apalling", then notepad.) You might be in some trouble with a few bible belt preachers with that story, though...

No time to reply for what happened after CR cleaning... will finish next post.
Warpmind de InzanE - [de_InzanE@xoommail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 04:10:50 AM
IP: maaloeytnb-gw.online.no

****Begin Short RP!!!****
"SJ is dead?" Jaden says shocked. "How interes...I mean how terrible. He seemed like a very nice person."
****LIKE I SAID A SHORT RP****

Geez my classes were rather boring today. Seem just to go on and on and on and on. I shouldn't complain since I to be ready for the tests their giving me on Wednesday. Oh how fun that's going to be.

Lady Mystic- <What happened after that?> Sadly the dog died. I wish things like that didn't have to happen.

Fire Storm- Of course I stopped. How could anyone be so heartless to just keep driving and pretend like nothing had happened.

Overpopulation- I do think that there should be an attempt to at least try to control the rate of growth before it's too late. I'm not talking like some big program to slow the increase of our population just some small little experiments to see if it would do any good.

Well night everyone.
See ya later!
Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.com]
Los Alamos, CA
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 02:42:35 AM
IP: cache2.avtel.net

Uh... this is random.

Here's a quote from Albert Einstein I've seen, I'm not sure if it's word for word...

"Extraordinary minds have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
Baby Fey
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 01:54:37 AM
IP: dorm894.resnet.nau.edu

Looking over the content of this post, the pic of Broadway & Angela just doesn't seem very appropriate...

Firestorm><<Hitler: The worlds most misunderstood vegitarian. HITLER was just a figure head. His followers did all the damage.>> HOO boy, I think I'm gonna circle my wagons before the replies to THAT one start coming in...

How was Hitler a figurehead? If he wasn't the leader, who was? The man CREATED the nazi party! He wrote their manifesto, led them to power, and exterminated underlings who displeased him!
Hitler was a nutcase, and many of Germany's strategic actions in WWII clearly bear the mark of an irrational mind. He pushed forward "Panacea" projects such as the V1 & 2, shattered his army chasing after dreams of glory in Russia, and in general worked to lose the war for Germany!
As to his followers doing all the damage, that's true. However, dear old Adolf still had a heck of a lot of power. When his generals realized that he had to be stopped, they had to resort to assasination, and when they failed he had the conspirators hung with piano wire. If he were mearly a figurehead, why wasn't he simply removed from power when it became apparent that he was ruining the entire country? Why did some of his most capable men die trying to bump him off?

On to Stalin. The reason that Stalin doesn't get the same kind of negative reaction as Hitler is that Stalin actually killed people for, if not a good reason, at least one that makes sense. Stalin's murders were conducted for the pourpose of rooting out opposition that probably would have taken him down. Hitler killed people who posed absolutely no threat to him.

Personally, I think that Stalin and Hitler are equals in the history of Evil; Stalin for Magnitude, and Hitler for Malignancy.

And while we're on the subject of messy death...
Doug><<Personally I blame overpopulation for not just overtaxing the planet's resources but also both the cheapening of life[.]>> Oy, this is shaping up to be an interesting evening.

************************BEGIN POPULATION RANT***************
In '68, (No, I'm not Y2K compliant) Paul Ehrlich sent forth a book entitled "The Population Bomb". In it, he theorized, and I quote, "The battle to feed Humanity is over. In the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon know".

*Valentine pauses, looks around, and shrugs*

Sure, my memory isn't perfect, but I think I would remember experiencing the tail end of an apacolyptic famine...
"Experts", both scientific and religious, have been making predictions about their pet doomsday theories for thousands of years, and they've accumulated a pretty dismal track record. Yes, I know that the Earth's natural resources and living space WILL eventually run out, but I believe that they can be relied upon for at LEAST another century. Look how far we've come in the last century, and tell me that we won't be able to figure out solutions by then. Even if we could achieve zero growth, that still would only delay the problem. What the whole debate comes down to is a race between technology and demand. If oil had never been discovered and we still had to burn wood for warmth and power, we would probably have wiped out the world's resources of wood decades ago. Instead, we switched to coal and then oil, and with each switch we moved ahead another step in the race to meet demand. Now we have nuclear, solar, wind and water energy at our disposal, and we're working on more. As for food, think about how much of the world's farmable surface is actually being used for food. Soil isn't consumed when used like oil is, so the land will last until we either destroy it or outgrow the maximum amount that can be produced. Drive across america and check out how much of our country is actually being used to grow food.
In any case, the only real awnser is technology. If technology continues to win the race with demand, then there are no limits.
Personally, I think that Humanity will last long enough to build up the Earth to the level of Coruscant.

The push for action on the "population bomb" has another problem; namely, it's prefered method of population control.
We, as a society, still haven't come to a consensus on the ethics of abortion, but it continues to race ahead at a breakneck pace, and I, for one, don't think it needs any encouragement.
It is quite possible, maybe even probable, that most of the people in this CR believe that abortion is ethical. Fine. I disagree with you, but that doesn't mean that we can't be friends. However, putting brakes on our growth as a species calls for some rather drastic steps, and it would be better to look before we leap. Abortion is currently taking place all the way up to birth, and I think it's safe to say that the "It's not really a life" argument can be laid to rest. If it's acceptable or neccesary to so drasticly reduce our numbers, why not reverse the equation and begin killing the old? From a pragmatic point of view, this would be MORE ethical as the old have already had a chance at life...

The biggest problem with the whole mess is that the "experts" always seem to demand immediate action, which is, IMO asked for a tragedy of monumental proportions.
************************END POPULATION RANT*****************

Doug(again)><<Hopefully by the time Kit and I are able to have children of our own some big war or epidemic will have happened that will really cut down the number of people in the world. I don't mean to be callous, but I really think this needs to happen. The many need to die in order for the few to have better lives (cite the reasons above).>> Pragmatic today, aren't we? :)
Wait awhile. one of these days, some rogue genetics engineer (now doesn't THAT sound familiar?) will figure out a way to breed a highly lethal, easily transmitable SELECTIVE virus. When that happens, the world's population is REALLY going to start to drop... <<Hope that when whatever catastrophe is coming does arrive, the survival of the fittest principle holds true and all the idiots, losers, obnoxious lunatics, corrupt politicians, layabout egotistical celebrities, selfish manipulators, bad-tempered hateful street preachers and soccer moms, popularity-crazed star of Aaron Spelling or Kevin Williamson show wannabes, and other various assorted forms of slime we've spawned are the ones who die.>> Why does this remind me of the "Mikado" song "I've got a little list"?

SJ - *Valentine looks over SJ's post, and immediatly takes a step back*
Whoo, boy! Suddenly, it's feeling a bit warm in here!
*Valentine grins and hands SJ a large pint mug of chilled cider*
Here ya go, buddy, just take it easy for a bit... breath in, breath out. Breath in, breath out...:)
<<Well, to forewarn everyone, I am in high spirits tonight because, once again, I spent the evening being told how worthless and stupid I am by members of my own family. So beware, I am full of good cheer tonight.>>
*Valentine mutters something ugly under his breath, and hands SJ the cider jug*
I know how that one feels... My grandmother is under the impression that my mom, the sweetest, kindest, and most selfless person I know, has has ruined any chance of her grandchildren ever turning out well. Despite the fact that my brother has maintained a 4.0 average throughout two and a half years of college, she still believes that my mom is a failure. My conclusion? She doesn't have a friggin' clue what she's talking about.
Ignore 'em. I haven't met you face to face, but you strike me as an imminently intelligent person; something that the world seems to be in short supply of at the moment. Don't let idiots bring you down!

*Valentine looks at his watch*

Oops, time to go!
Before I forget, I was wondering if anybody could help me out. I'm looking for a rundown of the story of "Changeling: the dreaming". Mera tried to explain it all to me, but I need more detail...
Thanks!
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 9, 1999 01:47:15 AM
IP: 1cust210.tnt6.dfw5.da.uu.net

Oh yeah. Vorn the Unspeakable was from a Freakazoid episode. Large guy with garg wings and a squid for a face. Teemed up with a funny little guy named Jeepers who had a watch that turned beavers into gold. Freakazoid, great stuff...
Robby
Monday, November 8, 1999 11:36:44 PM
IP: spider-tm051.proxy.aol.com

No time for a real post, I just wanted to defend Pokemon real quick. I'm not gonna argue with anything Sj's said, cause it's all pretty much true. (I'm not boycotting the movie though, I've been waiting too long to see it.) But I do want to point one or two things out...

Mononoke not having a widespead release is not just Pokemon's fault. There's other factors too...

Like for instance, the fact that Anime isn't mainstream by any means yet. It really *IS* risky at this point to try andf give anime a wide release. Look at Akira and Ghost in the Shell. As anime, they got the exact same treatment when they were in theaters, and Pokemon wasn't opposing them at the time. Its just being cynical towards anime really....

Contrary to Pokemon the Movie killing Mononoke, if it does well, as it likeley will, it may encourage Disney to give Mononoke, another anime, a wider release.

Also, Disney IS just being stupid about it... But everyone seems to have totally missed THE REAL reason Mononoke isn't getting a wide release. I'm not surprised since no one's talking about it.

Do the words "TOY STORY 2" ring any bells? Disney's being a jerk about Mononoke cause they don't want three animated films on the market at once, and especially not competing with their "great, homemade" garbage... Toy Story 2 comes out this Friday, what would have been just 2 weeks after Mononoke's release if it had been widespread. Think about that for a moment. I think its not so much they're afraid of Monoke being too mature, (thats why its going through the Miramax line in the first place, to keep the Disney name off of it, so its definatley a reason) as much as it is Disney has other crab they want to show off.


Robby
Monday, November 8, 1999 11:25:31 PM
IP: spider-tm051.proxy.aol.com

Kitania: The boy with healing hands: Christine's ending said that they left, not disappeared. (re-read the epilogue)

Hitler: The worlds most mis-understood vegitarian. HITLER was just a figure head. His followers did all the damage.
And what about Stalin? He killed 5million+ RUSSIANS, and what mention of this is in history?

As LM said, the dinner with my family turned out VERY well (MUCH better than I have *EVER* expected!) We actually talked about intelligent things, and I didn't feel like I was not wanted! YEAH!
AND, as she mentioned, we told my mother about the REAL reasons I left Office Depot and needless to say, I think she understands why I don't go there anymore to shop.

Literacy: Hey, I learned all about computers not by reading a book, but by hands-on experience. Given, I can read (duh), but while reading is VERY important, there are many things that people can do without ever knowing how to read, such as drive, fix cars, and work at McDonalds.

Jaden: When you hit the dog, did you stop, or did you just keep on driving? (a few years ago, my black doggie was hit by a car, and the person did not stop)

Pokemon and work: Lets just say that they thought that my liking Gargoyles was infintile BUT those same people found it ok to spend hundreds of dollars on Pokemon crap AND can name each and every Pokemon IN ORDER.
If I asked "Whats number 95?" he could answer that.
BUT they thought Gargoyles was stupid to like at my age? (NOTE: he is OLDER than me.)
And don't get me started on Whinnie the Pooh.

Toku: Hey now... I understand ONE hug, but TWO hugs in the same post is where I draw the line! <G>

Todd: Vom the Unspeakable: Well, since you can't speak about him, it stands to reason that there is no way you could have heard about him, correct?

I am really starting to hate my MP3 ripper.
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Monday, November 8, 1999 11:04:38 PM
IP: t2-41.visitus.net

SHOGUN RAPTOR - Um, who is Vom the Unspeakable? I never heard of him/it before. (With a name like that, and judging from your remark that my "Cthulhuoid monsters" reminded you of Vom, Vom's more likely to be an it, IMHO).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 8, 1999 10:55:20 PM
IP: 216.87.46.155.dialup-stl.primary.net

**BEGIN RP***
Many of the heroes rushed into the medical ward, led by the Wookie Chief Medical officer, Corrie. Two borg medical drones were standing over the body of Sevarius Jr....which, everyone noticed, was breathing again.
<<How is this possible?>> Corrie was asking. <<I thought he was dead!>>
"Instrumentation show he *was* dead, but is no longer deceased," one of the drones stated.
<<Yes, I can see that. Please explain. Why is that so? I could feel no pulse myself, and saw no breathing earlier. Now...>> The Wookie studied the instruments. <<Now it appears that not only is he alive, but his condition is stabilizing!>>
The two Borg looked at each other and conferred telepathically through the Collective. "We are not certain," one of them said. "We have a theory. Perhaps the Phalanx nanites interfered with our technology...temporarily. Eventually, our machines adapted to the alien technology and deactivated it, initiating repair of the patient's systems."
The Wookie did not look completely convinced. <<I wish to study this matter further.>>
She was shoved to the side, however, by Kari and Dr. Sevarius. Kari's face was stained with tears, but hopeful. "SJ?" she called softly. The rythmic breathing of the young man's chest drew her closer. "You...you're alive!" Dr. Sevarius joined her as the others crowded around the fallen hero, a bit confused but thankful that their friend was indeed alive.
***PAUSE RP***

Well, to forewarn everyone, I am in high spirits tonight because, once again, I spent the evening being told how worthless and stupid I am by members of my own family. So beware, I am full of good cheer tonight.

Doug: Have they formally canceled "Action"? Figures, all the good shows get killed. I remember a funny, romantic, heartwarming show that debuted last year named Cupid. Best show of the season. Didn't even make the full season. Screw Fox, let them put on another half-hour of suck-assed animation.
I know that my Pokemon comments were somewhat harsh, and I know that Pokemon is a fad, but like I said, I don't think that fear is totally ungrounded. I mean, we already have proof--2 shows canceled....I'm sorry "temporarily replaced"...because Fox feels the need to plague our consciousness with 2 Pokemon ripoffs. The WB has felt the necessity to air, what? 3? 4? 5 goddamn episodes of Pokemon every Saturday? On one hand, I feel they should milk it for what it's worth before the short attention span of America's children moves on to the next thing. But I'm a little pissed that shows are being canceled for Pokemon. Pokemon is cute, I like it, it's a nice distraction. But it isn't as good as Superman or Batman. I disagree with you in your remarks about Superman and Batman (certainly Superman....what's the deal? True, it lacked much plot and characters, but so does Pokemon, and the Superman comic has never been the epitome of literaturary achievement. I don't think it's THAT bad...); frankly, I found both shows, while truthfully lacking in their finally seasons, to both be constant entertainment and better than anything else out there. Spider-Man Unlimited is not a big loss, I'll admitt, but I like the character, and it did have some room to improve. Big Guy I cannot forgive, cause the show was actually pretty damn good...certainly better than "Monster Rancher".
I know that Pokemon is a passing fad, but so was Power Rangers, and THAT goddamn show refuses to die after all this time. And I'm beginning to feel that even if Mononoke was given more support by the studioe, it still would be overlooked in favor of Pokemon....I like Pokemon, but I don't want every damn cartoon on Saturday morning to have some sort of damn cute-as-all-hell mouse thing fighting another cute-as-all-hell animal thing. Pokemon is becoming an annoyance, that's what I'm saying, and one that I'm choosing not to support any longer.

Overpopulation: Oh my God, don't get me started on this. One to two centuries ago, there was about 1 billion people on this earth. Today we have 6 billion. That's a 5 billion raise in only a century or two. Scientists are predicting we'll eventually level off in 2 centuries at about 10 billion people. People in India are starving. The number of children you can bear and raise is limited in China. Here's where I turn into an old geezer. My solution? Stop f!cking so much. Use a goddamn condom. I mean seriously, would it kill some people to actually practice birth control. I don't want to step on the toes of some of the folks in here, but I personally think that the worst thing that could have happened to this world, population wise, was for the numerous religions of the world to start teaching birth control was the work of the devil. God told us to be fruitful and multiply, true. He didn't tell us to breed like f***ing rabbits. I see Donny Osmond brag that he has like, 6, 7 kids. You should be proud of this? Okay, dude, congratulations, your penis works. Thank God, some men don't have that luxury. But you aren't doing the world a favor by starting your own personal army of Osmonds. When I think of all the unwanted kids out there, wasting away in the orphanages or worse, cause their parents didn't practice safe sex or birth control and either did not want them or could not afford to raise them...I fume. Pure and simple. I seeth.
At least one comedian had a sense of humor about the whole thing. He joked that "My wife and I are doing our best to help the overpopulation problem. We're raising our children to be cannibals."

***If that wasn't inflammatory enough, here comes the RANT***
Oh Christ, schools and kids. Schools and kids. What Kaioto said was so right. I'd like to take this shot to rail on the parents some, though.
I personally feel, thanks to such geniuses as Dr. Spock, our parent/child relationships are shot to hell and back. Dr. Spock, what a great guy. Taught us to let our children feel good about themselves. From one perspective, that's brilliant. From another, that's bullsh!t. The whole problem with kid's behaviors today is like the Queen of Soul sings: R E S P E C T. Kids don't have it for their parents today. Why? Cause their parents don't love them enough to discipline them. When their kids do something wrong, they look the other way, or place the blame on something else, or if they do dare to realize that its their own child's fault, they don't really discipline them. They may give them some light punishment, but it doesn't do any real good, and the kid doesn't learn (it's like the old "go to your room" punishment. That's not anything negative--all my toys and crap was in my room!). Kids grow up not respecting their parents. They treat them sh!tty cause they can't respect their folks. Then, when their kids shoot up a school, or get convicted for drugs or murder or rape, the dumbass parents blame society, or movies, or video games, instead of pointing the fingers at themselves. Make your kids feel good about themselves throughout their lives, okay; but when they do wrong (and I don't mean simple crap like getting a D on a report card, though that can be bad), come down hard on their ass. Give them an appropriate punishment that will make them realize who the boss is.
What some parents don't understand is, for most of the childs' life the parents are their model for GOD. It's true. When you were a kid, you probably thought your parent was some sort of Greek deity; awesome, flawless, perfect, worthy of respect and admiration. Rebellion against this is typical in adolescence, but if this respect is still there, if it has been instilled in the child, they will, to some extent, obey your wishes. Parents need to be benevolent dictators. Family, no matter what modern thought says, is NOT a democracy, and it never has been. There has always been a leader, a benevolent dictator. The denial of this is what's led to all the crap we're going through today.
***END RANT***

Literacy and Auto-repair: Hey, if they fix it like they're supposed to, and don't rip me off, it really doesn't matter to me how literate they are. They do a job I loathe to do myself anyway, I don't want to come down on them.

***RESUME RP***
Meanwhile, back in Hell....

It was desolation marked with occasional pits of flame. The damned burned in eternal torment, their screams filling the sulfurous air. It was a chorus of pain and suffering. Ugly demons tortured sinners with devices never meant for human eyes to see.
"This is...uh, gee, how to put this...DEPRESSING, okay? Can we go someplace a little more private, please?" asked SJ.
Mephisto nodded once, his long black hair blowing in the breeze. "As you wish." He snapped two slender fingers and instantly he and the scientist were in the den of a luxurious mansion.
"Wow, wish I could do that....but anyway, Mephisto, we gotta talk. About this whole 'soul' thing-"
The handesome young man shook his head. "You aren't looking for some way to get out of it, are you? I really hate it when that happens. It would...displease me."
"No, listen, I'll....I'll stand by my word and stay here with you for all eternity. But I'd like to see my friends, just one more time. To tell them goodbye. Please?"
"That's not necessary," Mephisto said, taking off his red trenchcoat and placing it on a coat rack. He took a luxurious, expensive red silk kimono off another hook and slipped into it. "You see, you are very much alive back on Earth."
"Excuse me?"
Mephisto smiled. Despite the scalding conditions of the realm, it was not an expression filled with warmth. "Let me explain."
***END RP****
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Monday, November 8, 1999 10:48:44 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

given all the brouhaha over the chimpokomon movie (cyber-cookie to whoever gets the reference) I figured I'd post this
shogun raptor
Monday, November 8, 1999 10:45:03 PM
IP: mia1-wc2.atlas.digex.net

Ahh now ... lots and lots to reply to ... first and foremost, welcome back, Lady Mystic!

Jenna: Thanks for the explanation ... dang, I wish you'd been able to contribute Cairo, it would've made a great subplot!

Aaron: Probably the same Lina. Matter of fact, other than my character, Lina Inverse is the only character I've ever seen using the name "Lina."

Doug: Thanks for the high praise. :)

Anne, Infinity, et. al. newbies: Welcome!!

Pissy: You're welcome. I had as much fun writing those captions as you did reading them. :)

Lady Mystic, re: literacy and auto repair: I would beg to differ where it comes to being able to read being related to auto maintenance. For starters ... repair manuals in recent years have gone further and further away from diagrams (if Chilton's is considered the standard), contain very murky black and white photography, and usually I find I have to refer to the text to figure out what the hell I'm doing. Now, if he's been doing suspension work for years, that's one thing. However, the car he was trying to do it on was a fairly new one ('94 Tempo), and while it has a fairly simple suspension, it also has to deal with MacPherson struts, power steering system, and a rack and pinion steering gear. He's around his 30's ... he would've probably learned to do it on older vehicles ('70s), which deal with much different steering systems (the CV Joint wasn't invented until '77, which would basically mean that any front-drivers he learned on would be different systems entirely. Thing is that they have certain specs on torque on the bolts (lb./foot), and this guy appeared to also be numerically illiterate, too ... he couldn't read the prices either.

Oh, incidentally ... I'm also looking forward to seeing both of ye on Saturday. And yes, please contact me first ...
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Monday, November 8, 1999 10:11:46 PM
IP: modem2053.netexp.com

as for the Mononoke limited release, to paraphrase Beast Wars Megatron: They will pay most dearly for that, Yessss!
shogun raptor
Monday, November 8, 1999 09:54:44 PM
IP: user-38ldc2l.dialup.mindspring.com

*begin RP* the deadly seven have arrived back at the Avatar of Ganon, where their ship is docked, some dalek and borg troops have gathered around the ship, weapons at the ready
"what's going on here?" asks shogun, the troop leader, a locutus-style borg speaks
"there's some sort of wierd power emanating from your ship, we tried to get close and analyze it but.."
the borg gestures to several drones that have been neatly sliced in half, suddenly a midnight-black katana comes flying out the side of the ship, shogun catches it but it begins to crack, the sword explodes in a burst of green lighting that spreads throughout his body before converging in his hands and dissipating
"Oh dear god no" whispers Fenrir
Doc looks at him quizically
"the soultaker blade only reveals it's true self when some seriously evil stuff is going down"
*end RP*
Begin Mel Function/sli Sludge death
shogun draws the two of them out
"THIS IS FOR CAUSING MY CROHN'S TO ACT UP AND MAKING ME MISS HALLOWEEN!!!" Shogun slices Sludge in twain, stuffing his lower half in a juicer and throwing it in sludge's face, he then turns to Function
"AND THIS IS FOR THE COSTLY CAR PROBLEMS!!" he repeats the process on Function, he then stitches the two upper halves together, waist to waist and pumps the misshapen beast full of acid shotgun rounds, before burning it to a crisp

Todd> Cthulu? (SP?) you mean they weren't modeled after Jeepers' accomplice Vorn the Unspeakable?


at least I can use what was going to be my costume at G2K
shogun raptor
Monday, November 8, 1999 09:52:37 PM
IP: user-38ldc2l.dialup.mindspring.com

****TGS SPOILERS****
Dragons' Stone: Overall this was a great episode. I liked the explaination of how wyvern hill got its name. I also enjoyed the possible forshadowing of how the carving of a Gargoyle got on the archway in the cave. As I was reading the description of when the creatures first turned up, with something falling out of the sky I kept thinking of a possible conection to Nokkar's space spawn. The illustrations were great.
****END SPOILERS****

Christine> I enjoyed "The Boy with the Healing Hands"

Public School> I was picked on alot during elementary and junior high. I got better during senior high, and when I moved to Kamloops grade 12 was just fine.

Santa Claus> I once got in trouble in grade 2 for telling my classmates that Santa didn't exist.
Peter - [hybridone@ignmail.com]
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Monday, November 8, 1999 08:19:25 PM
IP: border4.cariboo.bc.ca

hey everyone :)
***********BEGIN RANT***********
on school and homeschooling<I went to private school for Kindergarten and hated it. The kids were stuck up, snotty, and just plain mean. My entire class was also 7 kids....Of course after that in public school the kids weren't much better, but I did happen to make a couple of friends in the public schools that I went to. In the transation of going to elementary to middle school my whole life completely fell apart so when middle school started I was still a wreck and obviously did not fit in with the "in" crowd. The two years I spent in middle school were absolutely the WORST years of my life, and amazingly after my mom pulled me and my sister out of the public school I started getting proper socialization. My family joined a new church, I got a job, and I started leaving my house out of my own will. People have always asked me if I am getting enough "socialization" my answer is also always yes because I have friends at youth group, friends at church, friends at work, and of course friends online... since I left the public school i have learned how to properly talk to someone other than my mother on the phone, I've been to a movie theater with a friend, and I've even gotten a best friend. I was too afraid that I would just be made fun of or teased if I actually tried something like that....
***************END RANT******************

Anne< I feel soo horrible for your kitty!! dipped in carmel cannot possibly be the most positive experience for a kitty to endure. my little sisters have done many many things to our cats but definitely never that.

I have decided not to use a picture to save my brain from completely frying :)

well, my mom left on Saturday night to go "rest". *grins* that means that I have complete rule and reign over my house and my little sister... needless to say I am having fun and they are left to themselves.

everybody< I'm just curious.. how many of you actually watch Gargoyles on a regular basis?? so many people lately have told me that they don't actually watch the show even though they have cable and frankly, this confuses me. If I had cable I would watch it every night my mom wasn't home.... *g*

what do you guys think about dating online?? I recently started dating a guy over the net and every one in my town is totally on my back about it and the fact that he might not really be who he says he is.... what do you think??

so many questions tonight.... sorry :)

bye bye!!


cherry blossom
WI, USA
Monday, November 8, 1999 07:38:11 PM
IP: spider-te032.proxy.aol.com

"Healing Hands" > must say, in light of the recent religious discussion in the main comment room, I was worried when the time came to post this one. So far, though, it seems to be being received positively. As for that pun, I'm afraid I must admit that I came up with it all on my own, awful as it was ...

Christine - [vecna@eskimo.com]
Monday, November 8, 1999 07:06:39 PM
IP: vecna.ndip.eskimo.net

DOUG - Yep, those three monsters were deliberately modeled after Cthulhu in appearance by myself - and that's all that I'm gonna say about 'em.

I only saw a couple of episodes of "Big Guy and Rusty", and, alas, I missed the one that Greg Weisman wrote, but I did find it amusing. I especially liked the whole concept of Big Guy being really not a robot but a large humanoid machine with a human pilot inside, who occasionally finds the fact that only one or two people know that that's what Big Guy is rather difficult (in that he's got to stay stuck inside the thing).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 8, 1999 06:17:36 PM
IP: 216.87.46.83.dialup-stl.primary.net

I can't believe I don't have any homework! It must be a sign from God! Anyway, concerning our sad high school animal story... I heard today that the police only caught five out of the seven murderers. If they're still out there, I hope they all burn in hell! At least the others are going to be reduced to worms.

Joe> Aaaaaannnnnddddd...I also know where your spot is ;) Better watch out! And you need to write down those lyrics for me cause you tend to mumble a little. j/k
SOROW
Monday, November 8, 1999 05:38:00 PM
IP: dll2a030-0678.splitrock.net

Anne- regarding the writing stuff- that's awesome! ^_^
jenna
Monday, November 8, 1999 03:59:55 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Anne- <reg. kitten story> Awwwwwwwwww! :)
jenna
Monday, November 8, 1999 03:42:27 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Hi all!

The kitten that was drenched with carmel a few days ago is officially afraid of the bathroom. I had a huge male cat, and got another kitten for my mom as a Mother's Day Present (she almost killed me). The owner claimed it was a male too, but a month later the kitty is pregnant, and a few months after that we have five kittens. My parents are animal-lovers, and once we found that we had grown attached to the rat-looking kittens we decided to keep them. Now days they're very beautiful, with long hair. One of them is a creamy white, one my friends call "Megs", though his actual name is Tanner. He kind of reminds me of Broadway, because he's definitely the biggest of the kittens, the second oldest, and he's humble in many ways. The oldest brother has a weird shaped nose (it's very long and rose pink) and his leader-like manner reminds me of Brooklyn. And the youngest of the trio brothers is the runt of the family, who reminds me of Lexington, and he's probably the smartest of the family besides his dear old dad (a brutish Goliath type) who knows how to open up doors by the knob and watches TV. Hmm... I think I'm getting a little too bored (or weird) referring gargs to cats, but oh well. The one that got carmel-coated was the smallest brother. Ever since the kittens were born they had a love for dipping their toes in water and sometimes their whole paw. Now the youngest one, Georgie, is totally afraid of the bathroom, and won't take a step near any sinks. It's sad, really...gets me really mad at my sister's friend because Georgie's gotten this phobia. Anyway, that's my ranting for this hour.

Kaito> Being public schooled K-7 I can understand where you're coming from, even if I'm not a boy. Girls are almost alike in that way, though public school does have it's advantages in some ways *pausing thoughtfully*. Anyway, I was reading the school rules and I see you forgot one of them: sometimes the teachers can get revenge on the students if they don't like the parents. My sister and me are perfect examples....

Green Baron>Sorry I haven't written back, and yes, I enjoyed the cat welcome! And I can't believe that somebody would just dump their friend because their so narrow-minded, pig headed, *goes on ranting* just because their friend is Catholic! Yes, I'm taking the Catholic school course, though most students have a choice between using the computer or else the books and using the books is a lot harder then using the computer. Wish I had a thousand bucks to buy another computer to do my work on but I regretfully don't.

As for when you were talking about college, I'm happy and proud to say that I might be going at an early age. I'm kind of doing badly in math, but I'm doing well in everything else. The reason I mentioned coming to college at an early age is because many of my teachers have said I was college material (those that didn't berate my parents) about my writing. Many say that I show good efforts in becoming a novelist, which is my future goal, and I've been creating stories ever since I was in second grade. Hope my efforts are good enough in the real world. Most of my stories involve horror, suspense, or romance *giggle* Sounds stupid but what's a kid to do with fantasies when they especially get the nervous itch to pick up a pen and write?

Zath>I was going to write a message to you and a few other people but if I go back this whole message will get erased. So later tonight when I've gotten all my work done I'll write to those that have slipped my mind. Sorry!

Oh yeah, one more thing...I don't completely understand RP. I've heard of it but what exactly IS role playing? Anyway, somebody please help me out, I'm obviously new! Thanks:)

Bye everybody!
Anne
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Monday, November 8, 1999 02:49:26 PM
IP: 209-130-164-155.nas1.apv.gblx.net

To Lady Mystic again-- hmmm, I would tell her that Santa isn't real person. But St.Nicholas was- he was pretty cool. In addition to being Father Christmas- he is also the patron saint of Brides. There is a lot of history on him. But one thing I have learned from bitter experience, that lying just seems to cause more problems then it solves in the long run.
jenna
Monday, November 8, 1999 02:20:39 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

**RP HERE**

"So what are we going to do?" Storm Eagle is asking Asil while the Dirty Laundry Gang anxiously looks on. "Are we going to hire them?" "I don't know," Asil frowns. "They have skills we might need, but..." "But? Come on!" the ditzy mutant sorceress begs. "These people are the first possible goons we've found and now I want to do something with them! They can't be the worst possible goons out there, you know!" Asil grimaces and looks back at the DLG, turning aside just as Bleach Man waves at her. Her face shows she is wondering who could be worse. "Alright!" Kit's evil clone sighs finally. "I guess we'll hire them, since there is no one else." The gang hears this and break into cheers. "You won't regret this!" Amazing Socko shouts. "No, he's right," Al Detergent agrees, crossing his fingers. "You won't." "I certainly hope not," Asil smiles. "Now of course before we even discuss wages or job benefits, you will all have to prove your worth." "Prove our worth?" Static growls, releasing storms of electricity in his tirade. "Oh great, fine! We'll prove our worth!" "Yeah, we will," Nylon Man nods. "Just tell us what to do." "Maybe an assassination?" Storm Eagle asks. "The ratings geeks at Nielsen just canceled several of my favorite shows, let's have these guys kill them. Please?" Asil is about to respond when the sounds of over two hundred approaching police cars reach her ears.
"Uh oh," Staina mutters. "That doesn't sound good." They all turn to look at the highway, where the police cars are blazing through LA rush hour traffic and drawing close. A large grinning officer leaning out of the lead car's right window spots them and points. "You!" he screams at Asil and Storm Eagle. "Drop the weapons and down on the ground, face down!" "Yeah!" his driver agrees, slowing down and stopping the squad car. The ones behind them do likewise. "Do it now! You're under arrest for Grand Theft Batmobile, interfering with show business, and the murders of Joel Schumacher, Matt Damon, Michelle Williams, and Ben Affleck!" He is about to say more, but Asil raises her BFG and shoots the squad car. Both cops scream in terror as their vehicle is hurled off the road by the exploding shell. The other cops immediately hop out of their vehicles and draw various firearms. "Uh, girlfriend," Storm Eagle mutters. "Can we fight this many people?" Asil looks them over and shakes her head. "No, but there's no way in hell I'm going to prison! Let's make a run for it!" She jerks a finger at the Dirty Laundry Gang. "You chumps want to flee with us or stay behind?" "Flee with you!" Scrubber shouts. "We work for you now, remember?" "Yeah," Bleach Man concurs, "and I ain't letting you two out of my sight!" Lint Man nods in agreement, as do the rest. "Then let's go!" Storm Eagle waves at them. She and Asil then immediately run for the Batmobile as the police start opening fire. They soon speed off, the Dirty Laundry Gang quickly following after piling into their laundry truck. The police take a minute to realize what is happening as they cease shooting, then jump into their own cars to give chase.

**COMING NEXT TIME- HAVOC ON THE LA FREEWAY END RP FIRST BIT**

Hi. Happy Monday to you all. Enjoying it so far? :) For me it's just been a typical day since I woke up about three hours ago, which I suppose is a good thing. Hope it stays this way for the part that's left. On to comments and replies.

Fanfic Progress: "Inner Demons" is coming along. 43 pages and I'm almost to the halfway point. I've been wondering if I should make this one a two-parter, but that doesn't feel right at this moment so I probably won't. <shrugs> Hope to have it done by the end of the month, I'll keep you informed as things develop. At the first action scene right now. :)

Kaioto: Good rants on school, anti-religion propaganda, and criminal activity. I hate to say it, but I find a lot in them I can agree with. :( Makes one wonder how the world became like this, and what, if anything, we can do to guard ourselves and our own children from it. <RANT BEGINS> Personally I blame overpopulation for not just overtaxing the planet's resources but also both the cheapening of life (there's a whole bunch more humans out there like John Doe, so who cares if he dies?) and a lot of the things wrong with schools (we have a lot of people in them now and so to avoid having to deal with all their differences we take the easy way out and try to make them all the same sort of stupid easily manipulated loser-jerk; also we try to encourage each child to over-excel too much in fights, sports, grades, or whatnot so we can feel sure that people they are better than all the mediocre people around when they're really just part of the crowd). I also blame human nature, and you've done a good job of listing the reasons for that. <frowns> Like you said, one wonders WTF is wrong with the world. Hopefully by the time Kit and I are able to have children of our own some big war or epidemic will have happened that will really cut down the number of people in the world. I don't mean to be callous, but I really think this needs to happen. The many need to die in order for the few to have better lives (cite the reasons above). Hope that when whatever catastrophe is coming does arrive, the survival of the fittest principle holds true and all the idiots, losers, obnoxious lunatics, corrupt politicians, layabout egotistical celebrities, selfish manipulators, bad-tempered hateful street preachers and soccer moms, popularity-crazed star of Aaron Spelling or Kevin Williamson show wannabes, and other various assorted forms of slime we've spawned are the ones who die. <END RANT>

Reverend Atilla: $ Keep watching the RPs, you'll be informed. :) First Asil and co. will have to go through a huge police chase, assassinate the cast of Friends, and brainwash Leo diCrapio. After that, Love may come on the scene. :) $ And I agree with you about the Reform Party. L

David G: <nods> Thought I'd remind you just the same. BTW, forgot to say this before, but I'm sorry your LARP didn't go well. I'm also still looking forward to the next Freelance, hope it comes out soon.

Christine: Also sorry to hear about your bad vacation. Hope you've gotten over your illness. Enjoyed "Boy With the Healing Hands," it had a lot of good character and plot developments. Wonder if we'll ever see Ebon and Julian again (and whether or not the Lazarus deal at the end actually succeeded). Hope to read another great one from you soon, keep up the good work!

Robby: <nods> You're right about shooting games being less fun in arcades due to the lack of challenge (coins = lives). However, firing their guns is still a great way to let out frustration. ;) I think He-Man would probably win your odd fight.

Pistoff: Thanks for the further data on Vaccum Riders. I'm even more looking forward to it now. Hope that between writing it and the other stuff you've been doing, you're still finding time to enjoy other people's fics.

Firestorm: <RANT AGAIN> The cheapening of marriage and love in TV and movies sickens me too. As you already know from the other Comment Room. :) I think I can also blame overpopulation and human nature for it. Why? Well, if you think about it a certain way, one can say that by cheapening marriage and love, i.e. reducing them to just sex and no more, we are also doing our best to spread conformity so we don't have to deal with difference (see above) and extend the population even more by creating the idea that mating is the only thing central to life. We're also trying to ensure conformity and a vacant stupid population by encouraging people to only mate with the "fittest"- i.e. sports stars, rich popular snobs, sluts, jerk-losers, selfish pretty boys and girls who are like the Friends cast, etc, etc, etc. <growls angrily, clenches fists> This trend more than anything else I believe is a result of the world's overpopulation. When too many members of one species are present in nature, it is more likely than not that the vast majority of them will be various sorts of idiots and weaklings who should not exist. That is what has happened here, and IMO at least it is these members of our species who are responsible for much of the world's problems. The real scary part is they're growing in number every day thanks in part to the problems they've created. You're encouraged to conform and you do so, you're one of them. It's sad but true. Almost every minute another is born, and so far there looks like there is no end to it. A lot of people talk about the sanctity of human life, they say we should so all we can to ensure the survival and propogation of our race. Ordinarily I would support their view, but now I begin to wonder- If so many of our race are going to turn out to be part of the cancer on this planet who destroy intelligent television and ban intelligent books, discourage differance, refuse to trust or accept responsibility for their children and let them live their own lives, rant against anything that doesn't conform to their worldview, and in general ruin this world for the rest of us, one wonders if these people are not reality-blind. <END RANT>

Kyryn: My prayers are with your husband's grandmother, hope she soon gets better. If she doesn't and goes to a better place, well then, my prayers are still with you and my other friends. Thanks for stopping by. :)

**BEGIN REVIEWS OF RECENT SHOWS, SOME SPOILERS**

Good Simpsons last night, the Zorro bits were very entertaining and it was also great when the Laramie Cigarettes people got what they deserved. :) Futu-rama was also excellent, the aliens were hilarious. Once again I praise and admire Groening for being able to show and satirize the truth about the network that plays his products and their other shows (I'm also surprised that Fox lets him do it, considering all the other things they've done, but that's beside the point). Batman Beyond day before yesterday also had a decent episode, though it seemed more formulaic than interesting. Hope Melanie is able to get some actual character development next time she shows up. MIB and Pokemon also had okay new eps, and the Battle for the Badge matches were occasionally funny -"Batjet, I choose you!" "Dugong, Freeze Breath!" "Ouch!"- but overall dumb (that stupid Detention teacher won too many and I wanted Jessie to beat Superman. If there's any cartoon character whose ego really needs deflating, it's Supes'. <"Doomsday, I choose you!"> :)

Last night's X-Files was kind of good. I liked the development on Skinner and Kirtschgau(sp?). Mulder's ESP was also interesting to watch, and it felt good to see Scully actually sorting through her feelings towards him instead of just having them played as a subplot in the background. The bit where the driver killed Dr. Barnes was nice too. Other than that I hate to say it but this episode felt more like filler than a good season opener. Like SJ said, it didn't advance the plot at all. :( Next week's sounds like it will be much better (how long have we fans been waiting for Cancerman to take this step? :). I can't help but have the creativity demon, though, that things will turn out like the film Devil's Advocate with Mulder in Keanu's role, CSM in Pacino's, and Fowley's in that of the Dark Madonna. Know that probably won't happen, but you never know. :) I'm also hoping for a catfight between Scully and Fowley at some point in the future, hope Carter comes through on it. <grin>

**END TV SHOW REVIEWS**

Dark City: Enjoyed this film a lot when I saw it, I too agree that it should have made more money. Hope it retains its position as a cult classic for many years to come.

SJ: Paper confirmed it this morning, Action is canceled. <snarl> Thanks a lot, Fox. Now I have nothing to watch Thursday or Friday nights (well, maybe Diagnosis Murder in the former, when it has good eps).
Pokemon Killing Animation- I can see your point about this issue, but I also think that you're overreacting just a bit. After all Batman and Superman weren't that good shows and neither was Spiderman Unlimited, I'm kinda glad they're gone. (Big Guy and Rusty, though, was good. It will be missed.) I also like Pokemon a lot despite its somewhat vapid plots and character development, too much to damn it for forcing other good shows off the air. <shrugs> Maybe I'm just holding out the hope that it will only do this while the Pokemon fad is on (even this fad must someday come to an end) and afterwards we'll get intelligent cartoons back. I don't know. Whatever happens, though, I do not think that it will kill Princess Mononoke. Disney did that with limited release and almost no advertising before Pokemon could even get the chance. (Lousy SOBs!) Princess Mononoke's target audience, the people who like masterpieces of animation and historical sci-fi better than what will happen in Pokemon (i.e. people like you and me) will probably still see it either now or when it comes out on video. Thus the goal of releasing it here will have been accomplished, and that's a good thing. :) Most kids probably wouldn't want to watch it anyway, since they'd unfortunately be unable to truly appreciate it (that's society's fault for dumbing their lives down, as I'm sure you know). Pokemon they will be able to appreciate and thus enjoy, so I say let the little buggers see it if they have to. Kit and I plan to see both films.

**SPOILERS FOR DRAGON'S STONE**

Good job, Todd. I liked your development of the Archmage, Hudson, Demona, Thersites, and the rest. I very much enjoyed the realistic feel of the story (something I was glad to see in the original Gargoyles show and am also glad to see here :). Great plot too, and nice Illuminati bits. The demons made great mysterious villians (BTW, was it intentional for them to resemble the Great Old Ones of Lovecraft fame?). Kudos also to Jessica Entis on her excellent illustrations. Ep gets 9/10 overall and thumbs up. Hope episodes in the future are as good as or better than this one, keep up the great work!

**END SPOILERS FOR DRAGON'S STONE**

Project Kotton: Welcome, newcomer. Don't forget to give up your so-called sanity now that you've entered. Hope you like it here. <grin>

Lady Mystic: You're welcome on the birthday wishes, glad you had a pretty good one. And welcome back!

People You Care About Dying: Jenna already pretty much voiced my feelings on this (thanks!). I too believe it is never a failure and that it should not be worried about too much since it comes eventually to us all. Some might even welcome it considering how messed-up this world is. :( Nevertheless, I hope all the people we care about who do die (if they're worth it) end up in a better place.

And that's all for now. I must be traveling on to classes. Later!

**RESUME RP**

The Ravens' shuttle docks at the Avatar and the group disembarks. They find Tom waiting for them in the hangar bay. "Hi guys," he says. "Take care of the Phalanx?" "We did," nods Kitainia. "They won't bother us again. Oh, btw, this is Erin. She's decided to join us. Erin, Tom Miller, our friend and team chemical engineer." Tom nods at Erin and they shake hands. "Gubio's told me a lot about you," he says. "Likewise," Erin replies. "Your friend Janice, how is she? I heard the Phalanx assimilated her." Tom sighs and shakes his head. "I don't know. They're operating on her now and won't let me in. I hope she's alright." "We do too," Doug says. "What about SJ? He was brought up here to the infirmary a while ago after being badly injured in the fight down there. Do you know how he is?" Tom looks away, his sad look deepening. Then he turns back. "I hate to be the first to tell you this, guys, but..." "What?" asks Shauna. "Is he okay and you're doing that thing doctors do to get a rise out of people?" "I wish I were," Tom replies. "Believe me, I really do." "What?" Tricia asks. "Don't tell me he's..." "I'm afraid so," Tom nods. "I was in the infirmary about twenty minutes ago when they pronounced diagnosis. Our friend Sevarius Jr. has passed away."

**COMING NEXT TIME- THE RAVENS' REACTION. FOR NOW END RP**
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Monday, November 8, 1999 02:05:44 PM
IP: fac-b-b9.lib.utexas.edu

Christine- The boy with the healing hands is a great yarn. Interesting ideas there as well as character development. One thing: about that pun... Where did you get it?
Thanks for the story and please keep them coming.
Trey - [trey_palmer@yahoo.com]
Jackson, MS
Monday, November 8, 1999 01:36:03 PM
IP: 205.229.142.209

David- thanks and yeah, I should have choosen a better example. One came to me as I was reading your post, but it would seem kind of redundant now. Oh, well, hind sight is 20/20.

Kaioto- reg. comments-- wow! What can I say, but Wow!! Very well written!! ^_^ One of the things I remeber I loved about Goliath the best is that he's "garg" enough to cry.

Regarding public schools- well, I never went so I can't say. But my husband and his family did. They are very intelligent and artistically inclined, and they loved Montesorri School- then they went to public school. and it was sheer hell for them. I know Mike didn't finish, he left at 9th grade. As for the other siblings-they left as well, but at diff times,and for various reasons.

If I do homeschool, it will probally be me who will do the majority of it. Mike tends on working in computer animation, and that brings in a lot more money than working where I do now. Plus, call us old fashioned, or even repressed, but I want to stay home if we can afford it; (avoid the whole daycare thing).

Actually I know if I homeschool it will be alot of work. My mom's a teacher in private school, so she knows how hard it is and the way schools are going. So in that fashion I have a model.

Green Baron- Thanks ^_^

Lady Mystic- Thanks to you as well ^_^ I'd like to hear more of the details you were going to before you DC.

Also regarding the lying- hmm- that's a tricky situation. I don't think of Santa as being a person, but more of almost a sprit of giving. There is a wonderful article called, :"yes, virgina, there is a Santa Claus." Most people just know the title, but in the article it says essentually that santa isn't a person, but a sprit of kindness. Might be worth a read. I think I may see if I can find it my self on the net, or libeary as it's so well written.

As for dying, ouch. I am afraid, my friend, that the truth must be told in this case. It will be brutal, I know I have faced that truth in my own family. With your sister, it sounds like it may be compounded because of her own abdonement fears. How this is handled will be very important.

One thing I think that we as a society do is that we think death is a failure. It's not. It is inevitable, yes. But not a failure. There is nothing to be ashamed of in dying, and sooner or later it does come for everyone. If your sister has any relgious, or spritual beliefs, now will be the time to call on them. If it is any comfort to her, tell her she is not alone, not abadoned- because God is with her, even if she herself does not believe it.(Luke 12:6-7) I hope that helps, and I'll keep her in my prayers on this end.****HUGZ*****

On the apt/flat hunting project:

Saw one place yesterday that was both cheaper and nicer. I think were gonna try for it. Wish us luck!!

Christine- I liked "Healing Hands" very much. ^_^
jenna
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:59:37 PM
IP: unknown-31-157.glm.com

Green Baron> Thanks for the additional info. I would have remembered most of that if I'd taken time to think about it. Posting from work usually means I have to hurry.
The point I was trying (with limited success) to make was that the "pure" jews looked down on the Samaritians for something beyond their control, but that they weren't pagans. They practiced a divergent verison of the Jewish faith.

Jenna's original point was good, though. The Good Samaritain just isn't the best example. There are some other non Jew, non Christian characters in the bible who are portraied as good people.

I forgot to say that last time, too.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Monday, November 8, 1999 11:23:58 AM
IP: 198.215.20.3

SOROW> Hm … that is just plain sad … I mean wow … As Mike Weeks once put it, "This angers me." That definitive statement usually proceeded finding whoever was responsible and giving them a Navy basic-training-style regulation pink-belly … and then $***-kicking them from one end of the base to another.

The exception to this was when Mike told off his CO … he was cleaning the entire Weymouth Naval-Airforce base lawns for two months. This thing was like acres and acres. Mike never pulled that stunt again …

Zath: <Re: Unlabled Floppies> WTF? Doesn't anyone respect people's privacy? That is just so … so … untrustworthy …

Lady Mystic> *hugs* It is good to have you back … now if I could only get Lexy back … *sighs*

Ah well, here I am again, little to say and less to do.

SOROW> Hm … that is just plain sad … I mean wow … As Mike Weeks once put it, "This angers me." That definitive statement usually proceeded finding whoever was responsible and giving them a Navy basic-training-style regulation pink-belly … and then $***-kicking them from one end of the base to another.

The exception to this was when Mike told off his CO … he was cleaning the entire Weymouth Naval-Airforce base lawns for two months. This thing was like acres and acres. Mike never pulled that stunt again …

Zath: <Re: Unlabled Floppies> WTF? Doesn't anyone respect people's privacy? That is just so … so … untrustworthy …

Lady Mystic> *hugs* It is good to have you back … now if I could only get Lexy back … *sighs*

Schools> Now, I've discussed schooling in America with many professors on my campus, and one thing has come out as a super-majority opinion when we actually take the time to reflect.

For males at least (personal experiences are the only reason we segregate gender here) are severely abused as children in public school systems. It is quite simple, really. While some would claim that public schools are where children learn to interact socially, I would claim that it is largely a crock before highschool.

Let us face the first fact. Little kids don't really keep the bulk of their positive social and emotional conditioning after the onset of puberty. Once you reach about the age of 14 the social paradigm and emotional drives have shifted. You don't get the same set of emotions as a child, period. You re-learn almost everything. The opposite sex goes from something to avoid to something to court. Acceptance and play-time give way to competition. Mom and Dad go from all-knowing to knowing nothing. Your needs shift from being provide for to the "get a job" mentality. Your self-worth comes into question. The fears of the future become much more long-range. All these things take the bulk of what you learn in grade school and throw them right out the window.

The things you are taught in grade-school as a guy that stick:

The Ten Commandments of the Elementary School: (V.1.0)

1.) Don't act smart. Your peers hate smart. Your peers outnumber you. No one watches the playground until you've already been knocked down and kicked in the gut 6 or 7 times. Don't be smart …

2.) Older people always believe other older people before you. Your opinion does not matter. Voicing your opinion gets you into trouble. No older people will respect you, so you might as well live with it.

3.) People who are bigger than you get what they want, don't question it. They are bigger than you. No one watches the playground until you've already been knocked down and kicked in the gut 6 or 7 times. Don't question people bigger than you.

4.) People who are younger than you are stupid, and you should never pay them any heed. (learned from 3).

5.) Don't be a team player. People only like those who openly win. The definition of teamwork is having a lot of people to carry with you when you score all the goals yourself. Then your team-mates love you and your enemies fear you.

6.) People need to fear you. When you give of yourself, but people don't fear you, they'll just take without asking next time.

7.) Telling someone in authority is tattling. If you can't solve a problem with your fists or insults, you just have to sit there and take it.

8.) People who are different from you are to be shunned and excluded, lest you catch those attributes that make them unpopular, or simply their reputation. If you don't, you will be shunned as well.

9.) Being popular is good. It means people want to leach off you, which is good insurance against them beating you up, because they can't take what they want all at once.

10.) Having an opinion that is in disagreement with the majority is bad. Conform. If you do not conform, your peers will interpret your disagreement as a fight. Your peers outnumber you in a fight. No one watches the playground until you've already been knocked down and kicked in the gut 6 or 7 times. Conform.

Seriously though, public schools in this country and many others are barbaric when it comes down to the acceptable behavior of children. There is a reason the "average male" acts in insensitive ways. The reason is that our schooling conditions us for these rolls. Opening up is a sign of weakness. The weak are to be picked upon so others don't realize you are weak. Opening up, trusting, these things get you hurt. It is always better to solve a problem by yourself than to ask for help. Don't call the police, use your fists. THESE are the lessons males are programmed with from grade school onwards. These are the lessons that stick.

All the positive social growth experienced as a child is generally stripped away by high school. The entire paradigm shifts. Children find their illusions stripped away with a lot of painful experience with the "real" world. The only useful thing I took out of childhood was learning, and a healthy contempt for the standards I was programmed with. I'm still subject to programming, however, to this day, and I have to fight that programming to act as I truly want to. The other remotely useful thing I took out of a youth in public schools was a thick skin.

We wonder why we see cruelty, pain, and suffering as humorous? It is because we've become callused, our spirits that is. We are trained as children to take a lot of emotional and physical abuse. We are taught not to cry. We are instructed to "grow up" and "be a man". We are forced to endure pointless, cruel torment because no one who can stop it really regards it as serious. Seriously, why do we let kids hurt one another? Is it OK for little Johnny to go around hurting other people's feelings, just as long as he doesn't use swear words? *shakes his head* Honestly, no one really pays attention to how little kids feel.

In public schools (and even in private), parents and teacher both throw all the boys into a fenced in pen and let us fight amongst ourselves and call it "learning social skills." Teachers catch maybe the most obvious 10% of abuse and barely have any effect stopping it. Their answer to exclusion was to toss a child back into a circle of people who are predisposed to abuse him some more. Public schools simply train us to do two things socially: A.) Conform B.) Be tough.

Everything else we might learn as children: Sharing, Trusting, Communication … these all become shatter by a dose of "reality". Yes, we learn some of the basics of functioning in larger groups than our families, but WHAT are we learning about larger groups? Abuse and coping with abuse.

Really, the main reason some people are socially "behind" if they are introduced into schools late is that they haven't been abused enough to fit in yet. They have not been beaten into having conformity as second-nature. They don't know what forces to bow to yet, what makes people popular, why people get beat up, why people are excluded. Worst of all, they don't have any clique, and will have to work extra hard to join one of these bands to enjoy the benefits of mutual defense. When you throw a kid into school late, it is like throwing one cast-extra in with a hundred of the living dead. Not only is he going to be the prey, he is alone. Most important in this analogy, however, is that both the living guy still bleeds.

Personally, I'd love to trade in these scars and this programming for the chance to actually understand and care for people without reservations and fears. I would love to throw away all that extra baggage that made me "tough."

You know what was one of the most fulfilling times in my young-adult life? When I left Wisconsin and Lexy-chan last summer, I cried … I mean honestly cried … for the first time in about 8 years. I'd been taught so well, that I ~ couldn't ~ cry anymore, no matter how bad I wanted, until then. Now, I have my tears back, and I wouldn't trade the capacity to cry for anything I learned in grade-school, not one damn thing.

Toku Kaioto - [Kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Monday, November 8, 1999 10:35:30 AM
IP: 141.133.117.253

Happy Birthday, Jesse

SOROW> I'll be watching my butt, alright, and I'll make certain to keep it near you :) As for those punks in a rival school, this goes beyond the acceptable standards of rivalry. I can understand kidnapping a mascot, but slaughtering animals for the purpose of a cruel pranks goes beyond standards of any decency. The boys who did this should be thrown to the mercy of a bunch of environmenatlists with similar mentalities to Theodore Kaczynski. The worst my HS did with our rival Jesuit was have some guy walk up to the pep rally in a Jesuit uniform and act really effeminate. We also had tackle dummies in the other school's uniform, but that was it.

David> Samaritans were also the Israelites of the Northern Kingdom who were conquered by the Assyrians. They in fact still exist, though there are only a few hundred still in existence and by now fewer than that. It's amazing how much I learned in sophomore Religion, especially considering how Catholics are stereotyped as not knwoing the Bible :)

Anne> I hope you liked my cat's welcome. The homeschooling experience does sound like a good one. My last girlfirend was homeschooled and she did a great job with it. Jessica got a 33 on her ACT and a 4.0 her first year at Loyola. Her parenst used a very good program and she taught herself a lot of it as she was about your age. Sadly, she was also a bigot and dumped me because I'm Catholic :(

I saw you mentioend Mass, so are your parents using a Catholic homeschooling course? I recall they are growing in popularity with how inadequate and Liberal Catholic education is getting and in of 13 years, I will satrt thinking about marriage and a family and the thought of homeschooling holds a certain appeal to me, especially when I hear of how some peopel were homeschooled very well and are in College at 16. I would love for my children to be going to College at 16, and I'd also like it if they were Latin scholars, too :)

Janine> I never knew that some parents took that approach to homeschooling. I once asked my mother tod o that, and she balked at the idea, because she was obsessed with my socialization and she berated me for not being social enough when I started College. Frankly, my Socilaization in grade schoolw as being teased constantly and driven to tears frequently (I am so glad I cannot cry anymore). If I ever bring it up, she gets all defensive. I know she means the best for me, but sometimes I'd love to just strike that babyboomer with my century old walking stick.

As for public school, it is deplorable in New Olreans, but I ahve never been too critical of it, except that I don't care for the NEA (but I am incredibly anti-Union) or the Department of Education whgich has 500 limousines but doesn't educate a single student.

Zath> While I don't beleive in all that right to provacy stuff (especially since Supreme Court Justice William Douglas was a crackmonkey), but your property rights are being violated by them exploring your computer and all. Maybe you should use some passowrd protection devices to keep them from going where they shouldn't be.

Kyryn> I hope things go better for your grandmother-in-law. ::hugs::

Bronx> It's good to see you back in the CR

Sevarius Jr> <<Make it Catholic, with hard-assed nuns and all. >> I only wished that was still true. sadly, few nuns even wear ahbits today and I never experienced the tales of nuns with rulers. Catholic school has many advantages. In New Olreans, it is the main form of education for those who can afford it, since public school here re-emphasizes every negative that can be said about it. For top education a Jesuit high school is superb though it's debatable if Jesuits are really Catholic :) Sadly, teh discipline that existed in my parents' time is no longer there. 10 years before I went to De La salle, the Christian Brotehrs would slam kids through walls and beat them for misbehaving (and tehse are teenagers), though nowadays the bleedinghearts have stopped that and parents started reading quacks like Dr. Spock, instead of Sr. Mary Knucklewrapper's methods of child discipline. Depending on where you live, Catholic school might not be snobbish. In New Orleans, it is main stream. Where Entity lives, Catholic school is the best choice for College. Actually, if you want really stuck-up kids, try an Episcopalian school :)

Wilek> Frankly, I think most kids belong in sweatshops, but a prison system may be a good idea, too.

Kitainia> Thanks

Jenna> I truly enjoyed your Christmas story. I'm glad you still know the true meaning fo Christmas.

Lady Mystic>

<<Well, my sister Puppy Girl, who happens to be 18, is a firm believer in Santa and the like. >>

You will have to break it to her eventually.

<<But would you tell your loved one who is awaiting death from a disease that they don't have a chance, even though all the signs prove otherwise? Or would you tell that person to hang in there and that love and determination will get them through it? >>

I'd be honest. The sooner they know they will die, the sooner they can look through tehir own life and right any wrongs they might have committed and redeem themsleves, before it is too late. Plus, I hate being kept in the dark about anything.


Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Monday, November 8, 1999 10:24:54 AM
IP: 141.164.133.103

Up in Minnesota, we're having pretty good weather, considering it usually snows by now, sometimes even on Halloween. The sun just rose a few moments ago, its 6:29 in our timezone.

Well, since I've just slept through practically the whole Sunday I'm really mad at myself. I missed a whole bunch of Sunday morning cartoons and I missed X-files, The Simpsons, and Future-Rama *grr* I enjoyed church but the mass was kind of slow-moving. Gosh, I can stay up for church but I can't even stay up through a simple show called "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" to see the cartoon after it. Hmpp!

My lips are in pain because, in stupidity, I just tried some of my sister's pink lemonade and my lips are definitely chapped. As for the lemonade...I think today's cooking lesson with my sister will be how to make pink lemonade--I think she put salt in it or something, too.

Okay, I just noticed something: I've been watching Fox while writing this, and it just turned 7:01 AM. My parents will be getting up in four minutes, so I should probably go.

Lady Mystic> I sent an e-mail to you :)

Bye everybody!
Anne
Minneapolis, MN, USA
Monday, November 8, 1999 08:11:41 AM
IP: 209-130-164-180.nas1.apv.gblx.net

Zath> the doors are locked from the outside so that no one can enter any of the mulitude of doors that we have in our building - except the front door in front of the office. They are not locked from the inside. We can leave thru the doors at any time, but once they shut - we're locked out and have to send someone to the front door to let us back in. Pain in the butt process - but necessary for safety. For cases such as recess though, we put a small block in the door ;) (since we are standing in close proximity of the door & can refuse entry to anyone else) :)
Jannie
Monday, November 8, 1999 07:03:14 AM
IP: 196-061.c.esc4.net

Sorry, Correction:
Santa Claus section: "But would you tell your loved one who is awaiting death from a disease that they don't have a chance, even though all the signs prove the suspicion correct?"
Lady Mystic
Monday, November 8, 1999 05:55:12 AM
IP: 216.90.45.171

Ya see everybody: I DID get Lady Mystic to post after all!

Glad to see you again in the CR hon. <Gives Lady Mystic a BIG hug!>

house//body bill 10010: Proposal to sleep instead of posting
BODY: Yea
Mind: Yea
Heart: Ney

The proposal has passed by a margin of 2:1.
Heart makes note on the record that posting of reply to human\\animal <Lady-Mystic> shall proceed whenever.


MESSAGE FROM <CHOOSER-OF-TACTICS:FORTH>

WARNING//CAUTION:
SLEEP//REST CYCLE LATE//INEFFICIENT
CORE DIRECTIVE REQUIRES IMMEDIATE//WITHOUT-DELAY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT//SUBMISSION OF CORE DIRECTIVE:SUBSET SLEEP//NIGHTY-NIGHT IMMEDIATLY//NOW.

<GIVER-OF-WILL> KNOWS ALL

ACKNOWLEDGE//SUBMIT
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Monday, November 8, 1999 05:46:20 AM
IP: 216.90.45.171

<<WARNING LONG (AWAITED) POST>>

Thanks to Zath, Coyote, Doug, Kitania, Pistoff, Xanathar and anyone else I might be forgetting for all the birthday wishes.

My birthday wasn't so bad. FS cooked my family and I a delicious turkey dinner and a double chocolate cake for dessert. It was quite enjoyable, even when HFS beamed me into the CR and interrupted dinner. Although, FS and I had a bit of explaining to do when we returned to the table. <G>

FS and I also had a VERY GREAT!!! dinner with his family and grandmother at Olive Garden. It went better than any other past meals we've had with them. (Although, past meals always went relatively well.) It went so well that FS and I are still high and giddy. Definitely better that FS' birthday dinner. (Go ahead, ask him about it. :)

We even had a discussion with FS' parents about the *REAL* problems at Office Depot. Details were omitted and the content was toned down but at least they finally know the truth. And at least his mother shows understanding and gave support. His father on the other hand... Well since he's been in a funny mood lately (we already have suspicions on what it concerns though, and things looked grim -- will explain later) we really didn't get too much reaction from him. Although part of it has to do with the fact that he retired to bed early. The other part being the type of person he is.

Anyway, it was a GREAT night. Certain gave FS and I hope for the future involving rekindling family relationships.


Coyote: I'll take a dark chocolate cake topped with whole strawberries please. <G> (Can't wait to see you again. :) Oh yeah, could you bring your photos of your Halloween costume? I'd love to see it.) I'm still expecting you to email me, okay? Or should I get the ball rolling first?

Belated Happy Birthday to Gargoyles and anyone who has had birthdays recently. Congratulations to any achievements and special occasions. And of course...


<<MERLIN MISSY>>

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR RECENT MARRIAGE TO "THE BOY" <very enormous grin>
Hope to take up correspondence again with you soon. :)

(I hope you see this or that someone passes it along to you.)

<< / MERLIN MISSY>>

Belated Happy Halloween everyone. Alas, FS and I didn't partake in this year's festivities. Lack of money and time deemed it practically impossible to remedy the situation.

Zath: <<Just once I'd like to see a story where humans come in contact with all the other life in the galaxy/universe and find out they're just average.>> I agree. I'd actually prefer it that way in reality also.

Ironwolf: My condolences on your loss.

Coyote: I'm sorry to hear about your mother.

Jenna: Hope things get (and stay) better for you. Yes I know that didn't come out quite right. And in case I don't get a chance to later... Happy Birthday!

And Happy Birthday to all who will be celebrating theirs soon.

<<BEGIN SMALL RANT>>

<<Zath: what really got me about the illiterate guy who came into the store was that he was working ... on *SOMEONE ELSE'S CAR!!* Would you trust *this* man to align your suspension, when he can't even read "Dick and Jane?" I sure as hell wouldn't.>>

I don't know if this was already said before... And don't get me wrong, I think that all people should better themselves in the ways of literacy, but...

What does being able to read have to do with fixing a car? Many people learn how to do certain jobs, actions, and many other activities through the act of hands-on-experience. True, some things require the ability to read, or even require that you be able to read to learn about the thing, but I don't see what literacy has to do with skills. Depending on the situation, skills don't always, or even rarely, have anything to do with literacy. You don't need to know how to read to be ably to create beautiful works of art. You don't need to know how to read to design a model airplane from scratch. You don't even need to be literate to be able to give a great and memorable speech to an enormous audience. You need the skills, knowledge, and experience. (And in the speech's case: charisma.)

Literacy adds to our lives. It enriches our experiences. Literacy stretches the boundaries of our imaginations and greatens the number of possibilities given to us in life. Literacy is a plus in life. It is something that every human being should have the pleasure of experiencing. But all in all, it does not dictate the level of knowledge a person already possesses.

<<END SMALL RANT>>

Health: It seems like everyone here is under the weather. Most of us have "on & off" signs of mild yet annoying colds/flus. Hopefully it will all blow over or that we will all get very sick. Yes, you read that right. We are actually hoping on getting sick to get this annoying feeling over with and out of the picture. Until then we will keep going on as normal and try to pretend everything is alright.

November B-days: Add FS' mother and grandmother to the list.

Jaden: <<when I swerved to avoid it I hit another black dog that was right behind the first one.>> Awww, what happened after that? <:(

RE: People getting ready for holidays too early: A nearby CVS store (formerly Arbors) had Halloween items on the rack down one side on their main central isle and Christmas items down the opposite side. And BEFORE Halloween!

Jenna: Your Christmas story touched my heart. It's good to see that there are still people out there who value the simpler things in life. :) (A concept that certain acquaintances have had power in disproving. However, now and then FS and I are reminded that there are still good and "simple" people out there. <-- Connected to a few separate instances/events. We'll explain later.)

Newcomers: Welcome! :)
Is the term "Newbies" really not welcome in here anymore


Home Schooling: It has its good points and its bad points. When it comes to comparing home schooling to public/private schooling I'd say that they are both equal overall. Being one who has "tasted" both I'd say that it all boils down to the individual and that person's environment. I'm still finishing up my classes in home schooling (through correspondence) and regret certain things that this choice has over the other. Besides the fact that I have so many other responsibilities outside "school" I miss the social interaction during classes that only public school could bring. Although, if I were a child the possibility of social interaction could be wildly different from that of mine (an adult's). A child wouldn't have the responsibilities and duties that of an adult. In that they wouldn't have other activities that take away from "doing their homework," not including the cliche "the child avoids work with play." The child's parents, if they have chosen to home school their children, would probably arrange it so that the child would be and stay social with their peers. In my case, most of my peers had drifted apart to certain degrees during the last year of high school, or soon after. But I digress... One-on-one interaction between teacher and student probably outweighs the classroom of students to one teacher ratio in certain respects, but is it enough? I'm getting sleepy right now so I'll cut this short --

The choice of home schooling over public schooling depends on the individual and that person's environment. It depends on what that individual is like, how much social interaction the person receives, the level and degree of schooling he/she is aiming to receive, how well he/she can handle a less restrictive (which can be a hindrance) personalized schedule (as in hours reserved for work every day/week), and how much gumption the person possess to achieve those goals (WITHOUT BEING FORCED). It would be nice to combine the good points from both home and public schooling, but alas there are too many conflicting factors involved to make it a "new and improved" method. Even if it were possible, there would always be disadvantages mixed with the advantages. So as I've said, it depends on the individual and that person's environment. Yes, I seem to have made that line a cliche. But it's true. I know from experience. There's advice for ya. (Email me for details if you wish Jenna).

Jannie: re: The positive side of home schooling: Based on personal experiences that I won't get into right now -- It got me away from harassing students and faculty that wouldn't change their views on my situation even if HFS took his cannon and hit them in the side of the head with it. HARD! In that respect I am glad that I chose home schooling. There are also a few other reasons, but that one is the most important.

Anne: re: Home Schooling: Are you given a set schedule to follow every day? <<Besides, I'll have time to make up for a schooling social life once I hit college, if I have enough time.>> You may not understand this now but hopefully you will someday. In reality, there is no such thing as "making up for it later" involving actions that are important for your psychological development. It is important to have certain experiences and not pass them over when given the opportunity. Those very same experiences you pass up now may effect you in ways that you never thought possible in the future. If you used to be social when you were in public school and have decided that it won't effect you if you "let it slide" for awhile, let me tell you that it will effect you. If you've been out of society for awhile it's that much harder to get back into the groove of being socially comfortable and confident when you do decide to be social again. (Email me for a better explanation and further details.)


RE: Finding out about the existence (or lack there of) of Santa Claus and other similar characters:
Well, my sister Puppy Girl, who happens to be 18, is a firm believer in Santa and the like. On numerous occasions, FS, my father, and I have discussed what course of action to take pertaining to telling her the truth. A few factors preventing us from doing so are: (1) after all that she has gone through and is going through, why should we steal that last ounce of childhood that gives her true happiness, and (2) her happiness gives us happiness. We know that it is wrong to lie, especially to one who is old enough and mature enough to know the truth, but what will telling the truth accomplish. Seeing the gleam disappear from her eye forever; never to see her child self peak through on every one of those occasions. Not hearing the sincerity and happiness in her voice when she speaks of the value and meaning those occasions hold for her. Seeing her depressed over the fact that one more thing in this world lacks the genuine meaning it once had for us.

Yes it is wrong to lie. Yes she has a right to know. But she also has a right to be happy. And if her happiness can only stay intact through the work of a lie than so be it. The lie has done and is doing no harm to other parties involved, if anything it enriches our experiences. Some may say that this act is a major injustice but actually it works both ways. We have learned from past experiences that sometimes telling a loved one the truth does more damage than telling them what they want to hear. If it dealt with the concept of infidelity then, yes I'd prefer truth over deception any day (I say this from experience). But would you tell your loved one who is awaiting death from a disease that they don't have a chance, even though all the signs prove otherwise? Or would you tell that person to hang in there and that love and determination will get them through it?

My sister depends upon this little trivial thing. Her mother, whom she depended greatly on, was taken from her before she was a teenager. She grew up with a mother who was always very unhealthy in one way or another. The relatives she counted on have either passed on or have separated into conflicting parties. And the friends she counted on most betrayed her. Not to mention the rough days at school caused by the same people that gave me trouble and the fact that her household had problems that only recently have subsided. She's gone through just as much as I have. It's no wonder why FS always says: "It's amazing that LM and her family are as mentally sound as they are today with all that crap they went through in the past." (Heh, he just said that today too.) So is it really such a crime to continue this lie. In her case I think so. At least for now.


Pissy: YES! Another person who actually HATES Pokemon!

Everyone/Anyone: When mine and FS' rants are posted on this ordeal please remind me to tell you about a little tidbit involving FS' ex-co-workers and Pokemon.

Sarge Abernathy: re: Top Ten: <L>

Sorrow: How horrifying! Animal cruelty is bad enough, but to commit it out of a high school prank?!

And now... LM's new signature quote:
< IMAGINATION AND ENLIGHTENMENT | SPACE AND TIME >
Lady Mystic - [lady-mystic@usa.net]
Monday, November 8, 1999 05:25:44 AM
IP: 216.90.45.171

Ok, I've been away from the internet and the good old show Gargoyles for the longest of times. The other day while doing a fall clean up from a recent flood (old rusty pipe broke), I came a cross some gargoyle stories that I printed (over 15,000 pages, now all worthless and mostly unreadable) out from my early years in High School. Quite a bunch of them to. One of the stories that could still read is the old 'Drake and Athena' theme, any body remeber that one? But the link that I got them from (the burines A.. what ever fan site) is now gone/dead. I have found sites with the newer stories.. much of them good, but I was hopeing that anybody have/has or know here I could get the old stories from when the show just came out... I remember these stories, and as I read them for High School skits.

If you have any info.. thanks.
Project Kotton - [lynxlynx@hotmail.com]
Colo, us
Monday, November 8, 1999 05:20:18 AM
IP: 210.183.28.95

Ok, I've been away from the internet and the good old show Gargoyles for the longest of times. The other day while doing a fall clean up from a recent flood (old rusty pipe broke), I came a cross some gargoyle stories that I printed (over 15,000 pages, now all worthless and mostly unreadable) out from my early years in High School. Quite a bunch of them to. One of the stories that could still read is the old 'Drake and Athena' theme, any body remeber that one? But the link that I got them from (the burines A.. what ever fan site) is now gone/dead. I have found sites with the newer stories.. much of them good, but I was hopeing that anybody have/has or know here I could get the old stories from when the show just came out... I remember these stories, and as I read them for High School skits.

If you have any info.. thanks.
Project Kotton - [lynxlynx@hotmail.com]
coloradoMonday, November 8, 1999 05:18:18 AM
IP: 210.183.28.95

All newcomers> We have a lot lately! :D Prepare yourselves for sanity extraction. Don't worry, it won't hurt. Much.

Marc> Dark City> I haven't seen it, but it looks pretty kewl.

$Warpmind> <<Area 51 around there, right?>> What's left of it. Muhahaha.$

Fire Storm> <<Wilek: The iBrator link made me all shakey! <G>>> Um...I'm not sure I was the one who first linked to it here...? <<I just have ONE question: Are you CERTIAN thats only a gag? I fear it may be real.>> Ohhh, I hope not...Although they'd be in for a lawsuit from Apple if it were real, I think.

Christine> <<Leavenworth was pretty, the place we stayed was very nice, but I was sick the whole time and thus couldn't enjoy it much.>> Ack. Sorry to hear that. :/

SJ> Pokemon> Hm...I hadn't noticed that...and it looks a little too likely for my tastes. <eep> <<POKEMON WILL KILL PRINCESS MONONOKE.>> That and the vindictive children at Disney. Here's how I've heard it, and I'm given to believe it's pretty close to the truth--It was Miramax's idea to import and translate Mononoke, apparently to show Disney what innovative animation *really* is. A resentful Disney proceeded to limit its release to <however many> areas. Replace Mononoke with Gargs and Miramax with Greg and things start looking eerily familiar.

Zath> <<I did have to start keeping all my writing on unlabeled floppies because I found out my mom would periodically go through Windows Explorer and read all my recently modified .doc files on the hard drive.>> What?! <grr> That is nothing less than an invasion of privacy, something no one should be allowed to get away with. >:(
Wilek Nereus
Monday, November 8, 1999 02:51:59 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

****NO RP TONIGHT****

Just wanted to make a quick post. I'm soooo happy it raining!!!! Finally I've missed it so. The only problem is that there seems to be a small leak in my TV room. It will have to wait till later to be fixed since it is almost midnight here. But I do love the rain. I always sleep good when I hear it. :)

Gyre-Leslie Nielson as Madoc- I can't even type that without laughing.

Warpmind-Afraid of insects? Are you joking? I've lived out here in the sticks my entire life. Insects are everywhere here. But I will confess that giant FLESH EATTING bugs do creep me out a bit...oh what am I saying they creep me out a lot!

Dark City-I like to watch that movie over and over again. I was upset that I did so poorly.

Beast Machines-Why oh Why can't I ever the good shows here at home?

Well I'm going to bed to listen to the rain.
See ya later!
Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.com]
Los Alamos, CA
Monday, November 8, 1999 02:49:26 AM
IP: cache2.avtel.net

Well, it hasn't been the greatest weekend for me. I hope everyone else's went better than mine did.

Pistoff> <<and hopefully you'd like to do more drawings for us, too>> I'd love to : ) <<I always watched Gargs on the little TV in my room, and it was a long time before I let my mom know that I was writing this stuff, just because I didn't her giving me that _look_... ;)>> Since I was just about the "right age" when it was on the air, I didn't have to hide the fact that I was watching Gargoyles, but I did have to start keeping all my writing on unlabeled floppies because I found out my mom would periodically go through Windows Explorer and read all my recently modified .doc files on the hard drive. Believe me, when I found out, I was extremely glad I hadn't gotten around to writing more than a few paragraphs of the monster fic in my head. Not only would she not have approved of what the characters were doing, but she has this weird grudge against all things Disney that would have made the situation doubly bad.

Kyryn> <<My husband's grandmother, who reminds me very much of the Eldest, was taken to the hospital yesterday in an emergency. She is a dear lady in her nineties and we love her very much. All we know so far is that she had some kind of head pain and she was in stable condition last night. Could I ask you all as friends to send your best wishes our way?>> Oh no! I hope she recovers.

SOROW> <<N.S. students found the location of our barn...and slaughtered our animals. A horse, a pregnant pig, goats, and turkeys were all murdered by our rival school! The pig was beaten with a 2x4 and the turkeys were choked to death and then their heads were cut off and the blood was spread around the barn. Those animals that were spared were spray painted with suffocating paint in the N.S. colors>> Those people disgust me! >: (

Anne> <<my little sister had a friend sleep over last night>> *shudder* that story makes me glad I was the youngest (although I never did anything like that to my brother).

Jannie> <<our doors are locked from the outside.>> Maybe I'm misunderstanding things, but wouldn't that keep people from getting *out*? What if there was a fire?

Marc> <<Doesn't anyone else here think that besides for a slightly corny (but still cool) ending, that Dark City was one of the best, most entertaining sci-fi films to come along in awhile.>> A friend of mine and I watched it together and found it very entertaining, but probably not for the right reasons. As soon as we found out Richard O'Brien (Riff Raff from RHPS) was playing someone named Mr. Hand, we just couldn't take it seriously anymore and made fun of all the characters nonstop for the rest of the film. Keifer Sutherland's acting didn't help either.

Christine> << I was sick the whole time and thus couldn't enjoy it much.>> Ugh, I hope you feel better soon.

***** X-FILES SPOILERS *****
I'm not really sure what to make of the episode. I didn't actually hate it, but that was because I was too busy feeling sorry for everyone involved (and I'm not talking about the characters). Between Scully's stupidity (I bet she wouldn't have had that plague of locusts in her tent if she knew how to use mosquito netting. Every time it showed her tent, the nets had a big fat gap), Mulder's ESP/telepathy (however, this might be fun if he develops the power to make people's heads explode like in Scanners), and the mad scientist who kept dead fish in his backpack just so they could conveniently be brought to life by the artifact (and did anyone else expect him to claim he was the high commander? His whole performance just screamed "I want to be John Lithgow!") it seemed like Chris Carter and friends had run out of ideas and turned to the cheesy end of the fanfic spectrum for help. The only saving grace was the end where the crazy Lithgow-wannabe got killed by the guy he had chopped in the neck with the machete. If this episode is any indication for the future, having this be the last season is ending the show a season too late.
***** END SPOILERS *****

I really wanted to see the Simpsons too, but all my roommates wanted to watch Felicity instead. *grrr*


Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Monday, November 8, 1999 02:18:55 AM
IP: ppp-229-242.usc.edu

Hey everybody. Been a while huh? Sorry, I've just been busy whith band and crap. This past weekend I made my All-District Band as a saxaphonist. Next weekend I'll be at a drumline competition. Wish me luck. Other than that there's not much to say except that SOROW's gargoyle jackolantern (did I spell that right?) was freaken awesome.

SOROW: had a great time. Just love hangin out with you (and turning you on by tickling your feet :). Oh, and I'm glad you finally figured out some of my lyrics. Pretty nice huh?

JOE BOXER - [jboxer82@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 8, 1999 02:07:39 AM
IP: spider-wd053.proxy.aol.com

***Kyryn peers in yawning****

Thanks much for the announcement, oh Stripety One!

***Kyryn falls asleep and disappears******
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Monday, November 8, 1999 01:49:16 AM
IP: denm2-36.iglobal.net

The current story has just been posted. My apologies for the delay. The comment room was wiped before I managed to return home. So, without further ado, I present for your reading pleasure...

Dragon's Stone.
Even when they're dead, dragons can give you more trouble than you wanted.

Fuzzles unto all,
The Stripety One
Marlos Rawlings - [marlos@spottycat.com]
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Monday, November 8, 1999 01:34:25 AM
IP: ts7-54t-25.idirect.com

15th :)
Xanathar
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Monday, November 8, 1999 01:22:39 AM
IP: melnc01.bigpond.com

Top 50 or so! :P
Wilek
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:30:19 AM
IP: spaceproxy.com

13th again....
cherry blossom
WI
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:25:31 AM
IP: spider-wo012.proxy.aol.com

Traveler: May you soon be some number with one of your famous long posts. :)
Doug
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:20:33 AM
IP: pool-207-205-237-96.dlls.grid.net

Kit- *TTHHHHTTHH*

Rass-a-frazzin'.... Ok, I'm guess I'm number SIX!!!!!!!!
Traveler - [traveler45@geocities.com]
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:16:17 AM
IP: 98a79e92.ipt.aol.com

I meant to say 9th
Anonymous
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:15:33 AM
IP: proxy-443.public.paix.webtv.net

PRINCESS MONONOKE RULED!!!!!!

oh yeah. (th. I didn't go up any but what the hay.
night walker - [goliath01@hotmail.com]
hobart, IN, usa
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:14:56 AM
IP: proxy-443.public.paix.webtv.net

If I don't count Kit twice, seventh!
Mandolin
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:12:15 AM
IP: 144.175.18.15

Nope, sorry, Traveler, you're sixth. :)
Kit
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:11:03 AM
IP: pool-207-205-237-96.dlls.grid.net

MMMMUUUUUAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHH!!!!!! Fifth postition is MINE!!! Do you HEAR me?!?!??! ALL MINE!!!! *HEHEEHHEHE*
Traveler - [traveler45@geocities.com]
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:10:12 AM
IP: 98a79e92.ipt.aol.com

Kitainia- Where's the new ep? Beats me. I don't post 'em, I just announce 'em.
Robby
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:09:34 AM
IP: spider-tm064.proxy.aol.com

Top Ten!

And, uh, where's the new ep?
Kitainia
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:05:04 AM
IP: pool-207-205-237-96.dlls.grid.net

THIRD!

Lady Mystic is writing her post now!
Fire Storm and Lady Mystic
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:04:31 AM
IP: 216.90.45.189

Top ten!
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:03:34 AM
IP: 141.133.150.161

Top Ten!

Real post later in the week.
Doug
Monday, November 8, 1999 12:03:30 AM
IP: pool-207-205-237-96.dlls.grid.net