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DANIEL - You wrote: [First of all, gargoyles do age at half the rate of humans. This does NOT mean that they live twice as long.]

Your technically right. They live about the same amount as Humans but its spread out over twice the amount of time because of the whole Stone Sleep thing. So it isn't really living twice as long. But at the same time there is the mindset that it is - a Gargoyle is going to know that he or she is going to live a spread out 200 years compared to the compact 100 years a Human being might live. That is going to effect their idea's on how they manage the time of their lives. (I'm speaking of Gargoyles in modern times.)

You wrote: [Most of the current Manhattan clan grew up in the 10th century. I suspect that a significant percentage of the clan at that time never made it to old age. They lived fairly violent lives.]

It's probably true that in the 10th century Gargoyles lived violent lives and didn't much make it to old age. (And when you analyze it they do still lead violent lives - less violent than it used to be but still a bit violent.) That would play a significant factor in the midset of a Gargoyle clan. But let's not forget that most of the Manhattan Clan that made it down to the 20th century was made up of youngsters - I don't think it really started to sink in by the time of the Massacure that they might live short lives. What young person dwells on such a thing? (And besides that don't forget that the Trio were still young enough that even with a violent 10th century lifestyle they still had long lives ahead of them. Why would they start thinking about short lives at that point?) And after the Massacure they were in the 20th century where they could be shaped by different modern and less violent concepts. Angela was raised on an empty island and didn't have to worry about a life shortened by violence until the Archmage attacked. So really only Hudson and Goliath should really be shaped by the "I'm might die anytime due to violence" mentality. And Goliath is still young himself and still very optimistic about the world so this idea might not have effected him as much.

You wrote: [Then there is the matter of gargoyle fertility.]

That is a good point that tends to slip my thinking sometimes. A new Gargoyle rookery is only going to pop up every 20 years. But we don't know when they are first going to claim that opportunity to have children. Do they have some biological urge to breed when the opportunity comes up or do they wait until they have found someone? On that we're only guessing. I'm not exactly sure where to stand on the topic. It would make sense that with such a limited number of times that they could breed there would be something biological that would motivate them to do so. But at the same time they are not animals. They don't have to claim each and every opportunity - in terms of survival of the species it's a bad idea to miss a chance to have a child but are individual Gargoyles going to be thinking about that? Will Asrial to use a TGS example mate with someone she has no feelings for just to have a child when the 20 year mark rolls around? Will Caspian and Rosalind to use another example consumate a relationship if the 20 year mark rolls around but they aren't ready yet? The thing to keep in mind is just because biology says yes doesn't mean the individual has to. (The individual would be more inclinded, that's true but they aren't animals after all. They have the free will to make a choice.)

You wrote: [Saying "I don't think it's realistic for them to be going this fast" is more difficult. What is the realistic speed for a relationship to develop? Is there a universal constant? Has anyone calculated how long it takes a gargoyle-human couple, or any couple, to be sure that they are doing the right thing?]

A good point - every relationship is different and goes at a different speed. My argument is that they were going at one speed and then suddenly shifted abruptly to a completely different speed. They went from no/little movement in two years to warp speed movement in three years. It stands out in light of the first two years that the next set of three years might be moving things too fast. That's not so much demanding that the relationship move at a certain speed but that the speeds remain consistant or at least have major explination for the increase in speed.

(I've pointed out that there is a possible explination that could be worked into a major plot point - Tragedy moves them in major steps rather than they themselves moving because they want to. They are reacting to things that are forced on them rather than figuring out for themselves that this is the right thing for them to do.)

Also in my questioning of the TGS speed the Goliath/Elisa relationship is going is first a question in the back of my head of what then? And second why should they - two quiet, introspective, careful, and even privately fearful individuals - rush into marriage? They have all the time in the world; why run into something that could ruin everything when things are fine the way they are now? (And on top of all that they made this decision to become engaged without really discussing it - Goliath and Elisa usually act a lot more on logic and this was a much more emotional decision. They didn't really talk things through - there are a ton of unaddressed questions they seem to be ignoring just so that the Finale of TGS S2 could go out on a high note.)

You wrote: [I WOULD have a problem with a radical slowdown in their relationship given the context of the TGS stories to date.]

Nothing has to be radical. They don't have to break up immediately. But if they get married at the end of S3 then it's a huge jump. They should sit down and really talk. Make some decisions, take some time. They don't have to break up although that is an option they could take for a certain amount of time. But marriage is a huge thing especially for them. Why run into it just so they could reach a happy status quo? Let them angst a bit - it'll make it feel so much more better when everything finally does fall into place. Why should everything be predictable?

You wrote: [At this point, I don't think any significant backsliding would be believable. Maybe it was wrong for her to change so quickly, but what's done is done.]

Behaviorally there is no going back. But in attitude she doesn't have to behave like 200 years of complete redemption have happened. She still hates Humanity. She still can't really come to grips with her guilt although she is moving in that direction. She doesn't really trust anyone outside of Angela and even with her there should be a level that is hard to cross. She still has her own ideas on how things should be done and why they should be done. Her attitude shouldn't really change that much. She should still be the same hard, cold, immortal glacier that's only starting to show here and there some small sign of melting. Her beliefs should only have shifted slightly; she realizes that she can't kill off humanity and has to accept that they are going to be around at least for the immediate future. That doesn't mean she has to like them or get along with them that well. She doesn't have to be a bitch all the time but remember her in the Robyn interview in HUNTERS MOON 2. She can deal pretty well with people unless she loses her temper. She gets along well with Andrea and considers her a friend. Yet at the same time she hasn't really shared anything with her - if she was truly her friend then Demona would have shared the fact that she's a Gargoyle with her. Andrea should be the grey area - someone she's more than civil with, someone who is her friend but someone with whom there is always a gulf since there isn't really any complete openness.

Above all Demona should not be running around crying and saying "I Love You" to everyone in sight. This is an immortal who made keeping her emotions in check (except anger) an art. She should say "I love you" to Angela but only with significent effort, not because she doesn't want to but because she doesn't know how to say it. And like with Xanatos why is she completely legit? She doesn't care about Humanity so why not make money off of them in every way possible so that she and her daughter (and descendents) can be as comfortable as possible? Behavior can always change and be modified, it can always shift. The question here is in internal thought and belief. Her brainwaves shouldn't have suddenly transformed into something else. She should still think the same way.

You wrote: [I don't think that the Gargoyle Gathering has to be the beginning of some kind of utopia.]

But it is. We've seen the final product in the most recent episode of TIMEDANCER. The Gargoyle Dark Age started to come to an end in 1994. From about 1996-1997 up an age of exploration started, with clans only then really finding out that there are others, that the Gargoyle world is a bigger place than they thought. Some communication started. (And there should be some communication. In a world of telephones and e-mail that shouldn't be a problem.) But its still an early time. There should be groups within clans who want to keep their isolation. There should be factions that are worried about the way things are going, who wouldn't want anything to do with other clans. Ishimura and London might want to deal with Manhattan but why would an isolationist Chinese Clan for example want to deal with a Clan who has reminded the world that there are Gargoyles around, thus making their lives more difficult?

Getting all the clans together and unified turns everything from a bunch of small seperate isolated clans having to deal with the world into a sort of one united clan that can always turn to the others for support if necessary. I wouldn't be suprised if the Gargoyle exchange program seen in TIMEDANCER doesn't start as soon as that Gathering does. It does seem like an easy way to introduce new blood into a clan.

Should tired clans just coming out of hiding, still not sure about how they might do in the immediate world around them start getting together only a year or two after the human world finds out about them? Shouldn't they be thinking more of stablizing their own situations and only then about a big Gargoyle council?

You wrote: [As far as happy endings go, I admit that I tend to prefer them. I have no problem with realism and tragedy in fantasy, but if I really want to hear a depressing story, I just turn on the news.]

I like happy ending too. And I know what you mean - if I want to be depressed then I'm not going to read fiction or go to a movie for that - I'll turn on the news instead. But the difference here is that this is a serial story - it might have a sad ending in one episode but a happy ending in the bitter end. If every single ending of every episode is happy then the final ending is meaningless. Why should the happy finale of a season mean anything when its just one of a long string of continous happy endings? There should be some happy endings and some sad ending - when the story and the characters dictate there should be. There should be tons of THE MIRRORS. But we do occasionally need a METAMORPHASIS or a HUNTERS MOON 1.
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Sunday, July 9, 2000 09:52:15 PM
IP: 53.new-york-28-29rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

CHRISTINE AND GREG BISHANSKY - Re the bit about getting tired of the corny old "I won't kill the villain because I'd then be no different from him" - you might in that case appreciate the "Mighty Max" episode where Norman goes into battle with the guy who killed his father, and which reaches its climax with the villain about to fall to his doom. He pleads to Norman that "If you kill me, you'll be no better than I am!" Norman replies, "I can live with that."
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, July 9, 2000 07:31:41 PM
IP: 216.87.46.221.dialup-stl.primary.net

It's so good to have Airwalker back. I missed his posts.

Some of his comments got me thinking. My comments are not necessarily directed towards him, since others have said similar things; his post was merely a catalyst.

Gargoyles taking longer to do things because they live twice as long:
I've seen this idea mentioned before. And I dispute it. First of all, gargoyles do age at half the rate of humans. This does NOT mean that they live twice as long. That potential exists, but there are other factors to consider. Most of the current Manhattan clan grew up in the 10th century. I suspect that a significant percentage of the clan at that time never made it to old age. They lived fairly violent lives. I'm sure that would have some effect on clan's decisions about mating, for instance.

Then there is the matter of gargoyle fertility. Gargoyles are fertile once every 20 years. Human females are fertile once EVERY MONTH. They are capable of having children roughly once a year. Humans males are ALWAYS fertile. This means that humans can afford to take their time before starting families. Gargoyles CAN'T take their time. By the time they are seriously thinking about pairing up, they probably have only a couple of years before they are ready to breed. Missing even one fertile period could be disastrous for the clan. Humans can just try again next month; gargoyles must wait 20 years. In my opinion, given these facts, gargoyles should want to establish stable pair-bonds as soon as possible in order to ensure the clan's survival. The key here is when do gargoyles first breed? I'm assuming that they breed soon after reaching maturity. If there is a significant period of time before breeding, then they could afford to wait, of course. But that wouldn't make much sense for species survival.

Now, that would apply to Broadway and Angela. What about Goliath and Elisa? If we assume that they can't have children anyway, then clan survival isn't a factor. Should they go slower? Maybe, but it's a matter of opinion. Saying "I want to see them go slower" is an opinion, and a perfectly valid one at that. Saying "I don't think it's realistic for them to be going this fast" is more difficult. What is the realistic speed for a relationship to develop? Is there a universal constant? Has anyone calculated how long it takes a gargoyle-human couple, or any couple, to be sure that they are doing the right thing? The length of time that two people know each other before marriage is not necessarily correlated to the success of that marriage. That doesn't mean that waiting is bad, it just doesn't mean that it has to be good. Basically, the correct speed is whatever the author(s) thinks it should be.

I have no problem with Goliath and Elisa taking their time. I WOULD have a problem with a radical slowdown in their relationship given the context of the TGS stories to date. It wouldn't feel right (to me). I think it's better to remain consistent with what has come before. I could make the same argument with Demona. Perhaps it would be best if she had reached some plateau and would remain at that level until something dramatic caused a jump to the next level. At this point, I don't think any significant backsliding would be believable. Maybe it was wrong for her to change so quickly, but what's done is done.

I don't think that the Gargoyle Gathering has to be the beginning of some kind of utopia. As I understood it, Goliath's idea was to foster better communication among the clans in order to help their species' survival. Survival is the key. They came very close to being wiped out by Madoc. If there had been better communication, they could have mounted a more coherent defense. Goliath realized this, and is trying to insure that it doesn't happen again. Survival is far from utopia. Besides, I expect that there will be plenty of conflict between the clans. They must all have distinct cultures. All gargoyles behaving the same way is as unbelievable as all humans behaving the same.

I agree about the Unseelie; I was getting tired of them even before the final battle. I also don't care for apocalyptic battles between Good and Evil. It feels too superheroish, and then what do you do for an encore?

As far as happy endings go, I admit that I tend to prefer them. I have no problem with realism and tragedy in fantasy, but if I really want to hear a depressing story, I just turn on the news. The good has to outweigh the bad, otherwise I don't see the point. That's why I don't generally read fanfics in which most of the characters get killed. Occasionally, I'll find one I like, such as "I'm Sorry", but that was just a one-shot story. A whole series of stories with such content loses my interest quickly. But that's just my opinion.

Wow, this turned out to be really long! I didn't really say everything I wanted to yet, but my brain is getting tired. :) Please forgive me if I seem to ramble.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Sunday, July 9, 2000 06:58:14 PM
IP: ppp-28.rb5.exit109.com

Warpmind: < Um, where on earth did you come up with that particular piece of mythology?> from a website containing info on Mesoamerican civilizations and myths.

Derek'd probably find it amusing that most of the deities in meso- and south america are panthers and human-panther hybrids.

<Or would that be a "no"?> no what? no comet??

Rodlox - [Rodlox@hotmail .com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 05:41:12 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

Warpmind< He's probably *checks clock* Yup, he's at home daydreaming of me *grins shamlessly* *reaches for her 10G's*

*g* *JK!!* Honest!!
Lexy
Sunday, July 9, 2000 05:23:30 PM
IP: spider-ta034.proxy.aol.com

Does anyone know if there is going to be an Art Show at G2K? I didn't see any mention of it in the last couple of emails, maybe I missed it. But I was just wondering if there is going to be one, and if so is it too late to enter? *shrugs* I should really know this by now...

Anyone? If ya know email me ok?

Thanks!

Lexy ^_^V
Lexy - [izzolexington3@yahoo.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 05:20:54 PM
IP: spider-ta034.proxy.aol.com

*Warpmind sneaks in.*

Curly++: Well, your point is good, but I sort of thought that was understandable from my comment; as I quite clearly said, I'd *question* it. I never said I'd go on a berserker rage, or call the cops, did I? As for Cyborg expecting privacy from parental eyes... well, think about it a bit: this is on the internet. Privacy on the net, particularly in a CR like this, is pretty much nothing more than a big laugh. :)

Rodlox: Um, where on earth did you come up with that particular piece of mythology? Or would that be a "no"? ;)

GXB: You don't want happy endings all the time? Have you read my fanseries? So far, the bodycount is just about 1.5 billion humans. ;) (No, not a typo.)

*Blinks at wristwatch.*
Eeep, gotta run!
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, July 9, 2000 05:05:47 PM
IP: mp-217-218-11.daxnet.no

**SPAM RELATED**
It never ceases to amaze me how I get spam to an email address never posted on the internet. If anyone has theories to explain this problem, let me know.
**END SPAM RELATED**

**RP RELATED**
I guess I should have told you, Winterwolf. If you could take time to post at egroups explaining your plans so I could develop a time-table of what is happening, I would be gratefull. Make sure you select to send the message after you type it in.
**END RP RELATED**

How many people out there have overtime that includes Saturday AND Sunday? I am curious.

**Happy endings comments**
Personally, I like things to not always turn out right. In the BFTS RP, things went really bad and are slowly reverting back to normal. I especially like the twists in the other RP.

I would like to some series take one entire season to make things really bad and it take more than two seasons to make things right.
**END HAPPY ENDINGS COMMENTS**

The time listed that I post at is one hour off what time it is where I post.

I finally registered a game for my computer.

Curly++, tell me this: why 'modern' javascript causes error messages on older browsers?

**BFTS RP continues**
DPH locks all doors to his door. Jason Filler, Plastique Saber, and DPH all head to the basement for some mental training.

"Guys, I am going to take you into my VR world through a magical spell. It boosts mental consentration by a factor of 10. Please don't try to explore my mind while in the VR World." says DPH.

Plastique Saber and Jason Filler nod their heads in agreement.

DPH casts the spell to enter the VR world bringing Plastique Saber and Jason Filler with him.
(side note: nobody in the VR world can hear anything going on in the real world right now).
**END BFTS RP for now**
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 04:47:51 PM
IP: max1-65.cwy.cei.net

STEPHEN - You wrote: [Not to sound like I'm flaming, but what is it with people that feel you have to drag out a relationship in a story, or drag things out in general?]

I'm not saying that everything has to be dragged out but they don't have to be run through either. Griff and Briana for example found each other and fell in love over the course of a single night. They then had an extended period of time in which they didn't see each other but if there hadn't been a quest, Griff probably would have married her on either a day or two after meeting her. Nobody sees anything wrong with this. I don't see anything wrong with this. For that relationship that pacing was right. (Of course the consequences have yet to really be explored. Two wildly different individuals fell in love and got married. Great. But we haven't seen any post Honeymoon interaction. She's a country girl with raw warrior instinct who has been raised to be very wary of Humans while he's a city guy from the 1940's who's spent most of the 1990's wandering around with a medieval king and is dedicated to the protection of Humans. Where is the conflict? I don't mean even anything physical, just in outlook. Must they look at the same event and see the same thing?)

Now taking Goliath and Elisa as another example, to say that after two years at a snail's pace, two years to a single kiss, that suddenly after only three years they would be ready to jump into marriage is rushing things. (Maybe this is the plan the TGS staff has, to have them come to the conclusion that maybe they are rushing things. But at this point I don't know that and have to go with the information that's available.) That's just moving the pace forward not to suit the relationship in the story but to suit the storyline itself. The Unseelie war ended and so suddenly everyone has to go into a great Baby Boom. (Although like I mentioned in my previous post, movement in the Goliath/Elisa relationship seems to be motivated by near tragedy Elisa always seems to suffer, and maybe this will become a major plot point in the next season, with both of them realizing that and deciding that outside events shouldn't dictate how they should do things but that they should go at a pace of their own choosing.) I'm not saying that it should be two years to every kiss and that events in between shouldn't have an effect but the pacing has to be consistant. You can't go from snail to rabbit just like that.

Every story has to take its time to develop. The timeframe that's given in TGS is usually good if the characters involved happen to be Human. The fact that Matt and Sara for example discovered their feelings for each other and might be doing something about it makes sense and fits great into the time it's taken place over given the personality of the two characters. But Gargoyle characters have to run on a different timeframe because they are going to live twice as long. So the story has to be paced differently when dealing with a Gargoyle relationships. And Immortals, particularly old immortals have to run by a timeframe that's completely different from everyone else.

Look at Demona in TGS for example. She's a full elder of the Clan! Broadway not only doesn't have even slight distrust of her but he's completely comfortable around her. She's nice around Elisa and Delilah. She doesn't do anything illegal. She has friends. She's not still uncomfortable about her 12 hours a day as a human being. There's no mention of her attitude towards humans as if suddenly after a thousand years of wanting every single person dead, she's gotten used to them. At the end of the 21st century I can see that being normal because it would be within timeframe that allows a proper amount of development. But at the end of the 20th century it's just a huge rush. Angela and Andrea have been a big influence but she's still got all those guilt issues, not to mention that the time right now is still too close to the Demona complete insanity era. That's just pacing again not for the sake of the character but because a good Demona was necessary for the overall Unseelie storyline. (I don't even advocate a return to her 1995 era behavior. That's long gone. But the way she thinks, what she believes, and how she feels shouldn't have changed THAT much. What she does on the other hand is a completely different story. She doesn't have to be trying to kill Elisa or even try to make her life miserable but she doesn't have to have anything but raw hate for Elisa. She can have friends but for her to go around wimpering "I Love You" to everyone is a bit much. Even to Angela it should be hard to do; after all this is someone who's been repressing herself for the last thousand years.)

Now if I was saying that a thousand years down the line Demona and Macbeth should be acting the same as they do now I would be completely wrong. But saying that 5 years to Demona, someone who learned the art of patience as a female Gargoyle sitting through Medieval Europe, is going to make a major difference is unreasonable.

You wrote: [Or that every story can't have a happy ending?]

If your not writing in a universe that's supposed to be realistic then every story can have a happy ending. But the Gargoyles Universe is supposed to be realistic. That's one of the things that makes it appealing. It feels like something that could be happening outside your window.

And in such a universe, things happen and mean something. The clock doesn't get reset at the end of every story. And not every story has to turn out happy in that case. Magic has a price. Resurrection can be a bitch. Going Cyborg loses you a lot of the sensations that make life worth living. You can't go home again. And good doesn't always defeat evil. Darkwing Duck gets the happy endings where everything is bright and sunny. Gargoyles don't always win every battle. And sometimes even when they win they lose. They stopped Demona in CITY OF STONE but the dead didn't come back to life. They stopped Oberon from taking Alex in THE GATHERING 2 but they couldn't help Puck. They defeated the Hunters and saved the world in HUNTERS MOON 3 only to end up spurned, hated, hunted, vulnerable, and in the hands of what had been an enemy the night before. (Now I'm not saying that it has to be constantly depressing - that would get equally boring. But every victory and happy ending has to be earned. And even then its not always complete. There is always another battle to be fought. That's life. And the Gargoyles Universe is trying to model itself on real life so it has to stick to that.)

You wrote: [True, not every situation ends up like the ending of a fairy tale, but dangit I say WHY NOT!?]

Some can end up like in a faily tale. The Broadway/Angela wedding episode had a great ending. It was a happy, complete one. But if that would happen at the end of every episode who would want to read about it? There has to be mystery, the idea that maybe things won't work out. And again I revert to my realistic universe argument. We don't always get a happy ending and the Gargoyles universe, in modeling itself after our own has to stick to that. Derek is still a mutate, Xanatos is still free, Elisa almost died when Broadway shot her, Owen's hand is still stone. If every ending was completely happy then these things wouldn't matter - Derek would be human, Owen would have two hands, Xanatos would have been in prision since AWAKENINGS 5, and there wouldn't have been a single worry about if Elisa would live or not. Not only that but creative use of the Phoenix Gate would have saved the Wyvern Clan from massacure. But not every ending is a happy one so none of these things have happened.

You wrote: [To give a good example, I was tortured endlessly when "Beauty & The Beast" ran on CBS (the Linda Hamilton/Ron Perlman series), and they took forever for Vincent and Catherine to finally realize and consumate their relationship. THEN they had to go off and KILL Catherine!]

I remember that show but never really watched it that much so I can't really say if the pacing they had was good or not. But they took their time developing it and in the end when the relationship was consumated, didn't it feel worth the time invested in it? If they had just off the bat entered into a relationship with little build-up or had sped through it to get to the consumation, would it have felt worth it? And would you have felt as cheated by Catherine's death if that much build-up time hadn't been invested, if the relationship hadn't been developed and worked over, if Vincent and Catherine had just jumped into things right away?

You wrote: [I mean, if you want to see the things you talk about in TGS, why not do this then: get up, speak to the staff, and volunteer as a writer?]

Everytime I sit down to write something it never sounds right to me. I can write wonderfully on subjects, on topics, but to sit down and write down dialogue - well I'll just be nice to myself and say that I'm not that good at it. And I wouldn't want to volunteer for something unless I could give it my best effort possible which I don't think I could do as a writer. Instead I read the stories and offer my suggestion and comments. I don't intent to hurt the feelings of anyone on the staff. They have produced tons of stories that I have enjoyed greatly. But if everyone says that everything is perfect then what's the point to say anything about it? And how can there be evolution, improvement if an opinion that might not have occured to someone is not expressed?

You wrote: [I don't mean to sound snappish, but it galls me when people complain about things that don't suit them in a series/tv show/movie/etc.]

I'm a fan. That's what we do.:-) Besides it makes for great debate. After all today is a Sunday - this room should be dead. But here we are discussing a difference in opinion and hopefully sparking ideas in people's minds that might not have occured to them otherwise. After all isn't that one of the reasons for discussion and debate?

You wrote: [ah, heck. There I go again. Much apologies, Airwalker.]

Nothing to apologise for. But thanks for letting me know in advance about the tone of this post was meant to sound like. Sometimes with the Internet you can never tell if someone is just speaking calmly or if they are trying to grind you into pulp. I usually try to make myself clear in the tone I want to give when I post but it doesn't always work out. I don't actually ever set out to insult anyone in tone with my comments.
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Sunday, July 9, 2000 04:39:49 PM
IP: 15.new-york-15rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

Sorry for the double post. But I have a little more to say on happy endings.

Dark endings when used I found quite cool. The end of "Metamorphosis" for example. In "Beast Wars" when Dinobot dies and Megatron has victories. "Babylon 5" also did this well. The deaths of Marcus, Byron, Talia, Sheridan, Kosh, Londo, G'Kar etc. As I recall "Reprisals" did not end so happily and I thought that was one of our better stories. Same with "Consequences" and I'm sure we had a few others.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:56:36 PM
IP: dialin-8-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

And on happy endings. While they are important I for one do not think they should be used at the end of every episode. I know that my own personal fanfic series will have some very dark twists and victories for my villains. And while at the end of the saga my heroes will win, the cost will be very high.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:50:12 PM
IP: dialin-8-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Curly++: Okay. Whatever you want to do is fine. Sorry if you thought I was being a little bossy. Not my intention. :(

GXB: Your opinion on Stephen's comments is seconded. And not just cause I agree with almost everything Airwalker said.
Doug
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:47:29 PM
IP: pool-209-138-62-57.dlls.grid.net

Stephen> I asked the board what they wanted to see, and Airwalker replied. No harm there.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:44:35 PM
IP: dialin-8-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

[A familar fellow wearing a big white hat strolls in to the CR, a very-papable bass-beat emitting from the walkman at his waist...]

Greetings all... sorry for not posting in a while, but a fried modem, a-la lighting strike, doesn't make for the most usuable hookups for the internet... Oh, as for the music, I just picked up Leftfield's "Rhythm & Stealth". Not a bad Techno-band, but I got it strictly for the track "Phat Planet", which Mainframe used for part of the opening theme to Beast Machines. :)

WEB PAGE PROGRESS - Sort of moving at a snails pace, since I'm still learning the quirks of Dreamweaver 2 (a new WYSIWYG web design program)... but the good news is I should have Wyvern-On-The-Aerie back in place in it's new server slot soon enough.

AIRWALKER - Not to sound like I'm flaming, but what is it with people that feel you have to drag out a relationship in a story, or drag things out in general? Or that every story can't have a happy ending? True, not every situation ends up like the ending of a fairy tale, but dangit I say WHY NOT!? To give a good example, I was tortured endlessly when "Beauty & The Beast" ran on CBS (the Linda Hamilton/Ron Perlman series), and they took forever for Vincent and Catherine to finally realize and consumate their relationship. THEN they had to go off and KILL Catherine! ARRGH! IDIOTS! It's only now I see they were only doing something to try and boost the series, since the producers thought they couldn't continue if those two had a happily-everafter... but still!

I mean, if you want to see the things you talk about in TGS, why not do this then: get up, speak to the staff, and volunteer as a writer? Then, as a member of the TGS staff, you'll have a good chance to have some of those things happen in the course of the TGS storyline. <sighs> I don't mean to sound snappish, but it galls me when people complain about things that don't suit them in a series/tv show/movie/etc. ... ah, heck. There I go again. Much apologies, Airwalker.

OTHER NEWS - I just recently got my scanner hooked back up, and I got a new inkjet printer! This should make getting my manuscripts out to the publishers a lot easier. :)

A lot has been going on, and I can't comment on a lot of it due to my absence. But I'll jump back into things after a bit.

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka, Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Spokane, WA, USA
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:35:55 PM
IP: m108.ieway.com

Warpmind: don't torment her like that....try like this...

Christine: all great civilizations have a comet! Haley, for one. and those that don't, like the Mayans, end up with deities like Coatlicue, who got pregnant by a feather, and all her first batch of kids tried to kill her, only for 'Left-Handed Hummingbird' to surge forth from his mother's womb and slay them - leaving them in the sky as stars.

*wipes words from brow, continues speaking in sweat*

...that wasn't right, wsa it?

::)

Rodlox
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:24:38 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

First I like to start with a big Hello to RAVEN who just posted here for the first time....the Wacky welcome wagon will be next

Secondly...went to the bookstore around 2 pm yesterday I wasnt expecting the new one to be there I was going to get a book on cats bt they still had some copies of the 4th Harry Potter... I recieved the first 3 for Christmas, I bought the 4th, another reason to read them is to get it on a bestsellar, cause in my twited mind it will spite those Religious Wackos who consider the book evil

YIPES....Just had my first viewing of Slayers...Gourry being voiced by the guy who voiced Brock?! and Magic Knight RayEarth is pretty good...the dubbing company is called Anime works for Rayearth and they had some interesting preivews in one anime called Shine Soliders(or something similar) One character rips off South Park

Non Conformity-poll, uh I dont know what I am yet...besides shy

and does anyone know how to install a computer microphone...a hands free one cause I sure don't
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:13:08 PM
IP: user-37kaosj.dialup.mindspring.com

Two bleary eyes peer at a time marker... 06:19:55 AM ...and wonders, Nyawk? Paree? Can not be Losang or Sydney. Can you tell Curly++ is reading Sci-Fi from the 30's?

WEBMASTER>>
Why doesn't the time of a post include a time zone? Just three more characters...

Mary Flanders>>
<I'M ONLY 17 YEARS OLD YOU PERVTED IDIOTS!!!!!!> Well, yes, perveted, but I don't think this particular perversion is natural in most of us. Hmm. There are two kinds of people in the world, those that handle stress better if they have an idea of the cause, and those that handle it worse. If you like, I'll post my hypothesis. It's really a collection of ideas from science editorials and research I've been exposed to over the last 15(?) years.

Warpmind de InzanE>>
<Provided, of course, it is not in direct violation of local law, [snip] (One such example might be Mary Flanders' grievances.)> I would add to that "and understanding that the act is a violation." I know the principle that "ignorance of the law is no excuse," but the law does allow for ignorance of the facts.

Doug>>
<There's a link to an archive of last week's comment> Can't read that. When Cyborg told me the room was wiped, I told her I'd start reading. But to read last weeks, when she might have expected some privacy from parental eyes, that would be almost as bad as reading her diary. Not that I expect I would find any great surprises, but it's by following our principles that we remain true to ourselves even when we don't know the full situation. I can live with missunderstanding the situation for a couple of days; go ahead, call me a newbie. Anyway, it took me most of the day to catch up with 6AM. Now I can post this much and decide if I'm going to read more now or do something else for a while. I should read some RGRN, but I feel less techie and more like talking about people these days. Or maybe I'll try to get my current game copied over...

Gside>>
<Anyone else think Java could be called C+=2> Absolutely not. Practicaly every major project attempted with java has failed. It's one of the major reasons Corel is currently in financial trouble, they wasted a year trying to convert Word Perfect to java, failed, and now they're a year behind their marketing. Java is a gimmick for people who don't understand why HTML has limits. Java is an invitation for crackers to invade your system. Don't tell me "they said they fixed it," I've looked at java; be glad I'm not a cracker.

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:12:50 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

*Warpmind enters, carrying a thick envelope.*
Well, I have now finally written my formal letter to Chaosium concerning the Call of Cthulhu campaign I'm working on; all that remains for me now is to go to the Post Orifice tomorrow, buy the prerequisite amount of stamps, and send it off... :)

Doug: RP: SJ's on Earth, while the contract is drawn up on the Avatar? Sheesh... and I thought RL could be confusing at times. ;)

Christine: We have our vays of getting ze information, ja? ;)

**RP**
Warpmind and the Quencher are on Earth, looking around.
"Hey, I know this place. We're in Prague, for some reason. Okay, Quencher, do your thing; see if you can't find the Seeker."
The Quencher sneers.
"It is only my my Lord's bidding that I follow your orders. Had he not commanded that I be set free for the sole purpose of aiding you and the Seeker in battling the Ten, I would have ripped your guts out where you stand."
"Had he not ordered so, you'd still be staring at cute, fluffy bunnies in endless green fields. Now, where's the Seeker?"
The Quencher sneers again, pointing.
"He's in that direction."
**RP END**
Okay, the 10,000 dollar question: Where Is Kaioto Now?

Well, gotta run. Oh, and is here anyone present who manages to e-mail Wilek, without getting the e-mail in return, with some "subsystem unavailable" error message or anything? 'Cause I've got something to send him, and it just won't reach him. :(
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, July 9, 2000 02:06:14 PM
IP: mp-217-237-30.daxnet.no

Hola! Sorry I haven't posted in a few nights!
Let's see if I can cover it in one post.
<Winterwolf>
How's the webpage coming? I'd like to see that animation when you're done. I've a bunch of pics to give you so whenever you want them! I'm going to tape all of the episodes when the series turns over. Which should be in a few days. Then they'll get shipped off to you!
<Janine>
I hope you have a good time with RHPS.Here are some things I was thinking about for our story.
1)Asile meets many different clans during is jump in the timestream. He even brings a few gargoyles back to Manhattan.
2)He joins Cucullain for a time.
3)Gets transported to Castle Wyvern in 970.
Those be a few tell me what you thimk.
<Rodlox>
Where have you been? I have IMed you for weeks but no response. If you don't feel like talking then say so! Unless you've blocked me then in which case tell here or my mail so I don't continually make a fool of myself. By the way I'm done with my half of the study. So whenever you're interested I'm here nad we can discuss it!
<SHAMELESS PLUG>
Episode 2 "No where to hide" part 2 will be up today! I hope all of you enjoy it!. I promise after the intro there will be more vivid character descriptions. Sean will have a story soon, as well as others. Kepp reading if you want!
<END SHAMELESS PLUG>
I don't have much else to say until tonight.
See you then!
Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 01:10:41 PM
IP: usr56.cqc.com

Christine> While I definetly agree that that arguement is really cliched, at that time it was new for animation and that episode almost wasn't aired way back then. So I wouldn't blame them for over using it.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 12:38:32 PM
IP: dialin-475-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Rodlox and Warpmind > oh, okay! Right! For some reason I was thinking you meant the comet (which I don't think is even in the series until the 3rd book) and for the life of me couldn't figure out how you'd know! ; )

Dungeons and Dragons > I've been able to catch it a few times now, and while it is a little hokier than I remember, I still enjoy it. Except for Uni ... "Ooh, look, we've finally got a way home!" "But I can't leave Uni, whine-whine-whine!" "Mehhhh, mehhh ..." As for the recent ep with the Dragon's Graveyard, my main objection wasn't that they didn't kill Venger but that they trotted out that same old damn tired wheeze about how they wouldn't be any different from him if they did. Am I the only one to think that argument is total crap? I about chewed my lips off when Elisa used it on Goliath, too. IT IS TOO DIFFERENT! Arrrrrgh! ::bangs head on desk::

Christine
Sunday, July 9, 2000 12:28:53 PM
IP: 15-127.009.popsite.net

Airwalker> The TGS staff has discussed a lot of the points you made over the last several months. While I am not at liberty to divulge spoilers, I'm sure that the new season will be to most people's liking.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 12:14:11 PM
IP: dialin-475-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Ummm...hi. I recently just got enlighted on the greatness that is TGS. So, well, hi!
Raven - [madhatter58@theglobe.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:45:00 AM
IP: 216.248.90.97

Shadowrider: Thanks. I'm sure Enzo will enjoy the poem. On the feedback, I will accept it whenever it comes. The sooner the better, but I understand your committments and can wait. :) Glad you're enjoying the story a lot (your post said so).

Airwalker: Good points and ideas about the upcoming TGS season. Hope they get read and some make it into the actual episodes. :)

Warpmind: Good point about laws. $ I did miss that RP bit. Sorry. It's rectified below, I hope. BTW, you've missed a few bits yourself recently. SJ's soul is on Earth, not on the Avatar. <shrugs> But I can see how you made the mistake. $

**QUICK RP, SINCE IT'S NECESSARY AND THIS IS A NEW DAY**

On board a shuttle heading for Earth from the Avatar, the Ravens sit in a cabin with Jake, Wilek's wolf-mutate friend. "We're almost to Earth now," he is telling Doug and Kitainia. "I want to thank you again for helping us out on the Avatar. We really appreciate it." Kit smiles. "Yeah, we know. That's why we did it, of course." Doug nods in agreement. "Hope you don't have any more problems with powerful demons." "We hope that too," Jake laughs. "You know, Warpmind visited the control room shortly after you and Mephisto entered it. He had the Quencher with him." Kit nods. "Yeah, I know. Our minds were occupied, so we noticed but we barely reacted. Then he was gone." Jake nods. "Miriam helped him as best she could with information on the Seeker. We had no idea where he was, but suggested Warpmind might have been able to use the Quencher to track him. Then they left. Funny how he seemed to have the Quencher under control up there. Strange really." "Who is this Quencher?" Doug asks, frowning. "I'll tell you later," Kit replies. "It's a long story." "We have a lot of those, don't we?" Doug grins. Kit smiles and nods.

Suddenly Tricia gasps from her seat. Kit and Doug spin to face her, but their attention is caught by a hologram of Wilek that suddenly appears before them. "Ravens, I have bad news," he says. "Mephisto just escaped the station. Somehow he overpowered the guards we had on him and freed his remaining minions. They battled their way to the hangar, stole a Star Destroyer, and took off on it. I couldn't spare any ships to go after him. Thought you should know." "Okay," Lathrop answers. "Not much we can do about that now." "It gets worse," Wilek sighs. "I took the liberty of analyzing Mephisto's power level during the brief time we had him in custody. It's 250,000. He could have taken out that Nine demon, or any of us, with a snap of his fingers." "Then why didn't he?" Doug frowns. "He was using us!" Stephanie roars. "That...that evil demon!" Keith nods. "That was what he was alright." "And we fell for his charade," mutters Tom. "Wasted all that time and effort fighting a demon he could have taken down himself." "Uh, guys," Tricia jumps in, "I hate to bring this up now, but check out this contract." She holds up the paper she's been examining with a magnifying glass. "Jammer, these ink smudges you noticed?" "What about them?" Jammer frowns. "They're not ink smudges, they're fine print. The gist of it is that the contract is declared null and void on every plane of existence. Mephisto screwed us. He still has power over SJ's soul." "Are you sure?" Jammer gasps along with the others. Tricia nods. "Unfortunately yes. Dating you has taught me a lot of lawyer-speak." "This is just great," Elena sighs. "Why did we even go to the Avatar? We've accomplished nothing!" "That's not true," Orion counters. "We did kick Mephisto off it, and return control to Wilek. We helped some of our friends." "Yeah," Kit agrees. "I wish we'd helped more but," she sighs, "there's not much we can do about it now. If we ever see Mephisto again, though, I want a piece of him." "You're not the only one," Doug grumbles. "I did not see this one coming." "None of us did," Wilek nods. "Mephisto's one devious jerk. I hope we see him again someday too, though I doubt it will happen. Best thing to do now is deal with our more immediate problems. I have to fix the Avatar and get it moving again, you have plenty to deal with on Earth." Kit and the others nod, sighing as they begin debating what has happened, which they will continue doing until the shuttle docks back at Area 51.

**END THIS BAD NEWS RP**
Doug
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:12:47 AM
IP: pool-209-138-202-242-dlls.grid.net

TGS PICTURE VOTE - I submitted my vote for it. Was it received or should I resubmit it?

(And I have to say that I loved some of the new pictures included - particularly Harthoth, Artus, Gwen, and Samson. It's good to finally have a picture to go with the story.)

TODD - You wrote: [What would you most like/expect to see in "Pendragon"'s Season Three?]

I'd like to see much more of the main PENDRAGON Gargoyle cast. PENDRAGON Season 2 was a vast improvement over the first season in that it began to really introduce and develop these characters. I hope to see that development continue in Season 3.

I'd love to see more of Griff and Briana - although it would be nice if they didn't get along all the time. After all he is a Gargoyle not only from the 1940's but also from the City while she's a country person. There should be some difference in outlook. Besides TGS couples seem to get along so well together - a little realistic conflict should jump in once in a while. The Honeymoon can't last forever after all.

I'd like to see more Caspian and Rosalind as well. Now that the main series has quickly run through Broadway and Angela's relationship - I'd like to see a slow relationship between these two. There was mention of problems just as much as there was mention of love between the two. It would be nice to see slow (I'd underline it if I could - SLOW) development with some problems here and there along the line. After all this isn't like the Manhattan Clan where there was one Female and three males. Both Caspian and Rosalind have more of a choice in dates if they argue. Just because they have an interest in each other doesn't mean that they have to immediately hook up for life.

Now that the Unseelie have been put rest as a major plot in Main TGS maybe some of them could be recycled into PENDRAGON. Morrigan for example showed up as a major player in the S2 finale. Rather than having some huge reconsturction of the Unseelie Court and some huge threat to the world (which if it happens too often not only turns the Gargoyles into superheroes but also makes it boring - every threat has to get bigger and bigger until its just not taken seriously anymore) it would be nice to focus of something smaller. Instead of Unseelie trying to enslave the world, how about some more focus of wrestling some control from the Illuminati or fighting some secret force thats not interested in control of the world but maybe only economic control in Europe or in becoming King of England or in starting a war with Ireland - something like that. Let PENDRAGON focus itself on Britain and Europe. The fact that Goliath can pick up a phone and call up should be largely ignored. Let's pretend that the London Clan is still in isolation a bit. TGS is in a hurry to get to the 2158 utopia but it can wait for a little bit.

The London Clan actually protecting London - I don't really have anything against a few young Gargoyles here and there who actually want to go into the city and fight crime or who want to go to Scotland and train to fight. But the London Clan has been in isolation for a long time. Desire to protect should have atrophied a bit. Griff should be a trendsetter in the Protection idea. Not only that but there should be some resistance from a good part of the clan to this - after all it can become a threat to them. There should be an isolationist faction. The London Clan in TGS seems to have a council - let them argue. Why should politics be easy among them? It's not like its Manhattan where Goliath is the beginning and the end of Leadership.

(Also this should be a source of friction between Griff and Briana. She grew up her entire life being told that Humans were no good. And now she's suddenly completely comfortable protecting them?)

Also since there are some Gargoyles going into the city to fight then there should also be a return of Leo and Una to the shop. Not because they haven't changed in outlook but because they are in charge of the income of the clan. They can't spend every night going out - sometimes they have to stay in and make a living. Also seeing them with Aslan (the newborn) wouldn't hurt - they aren't machines after all. They might want to have him around them while they remain at the store for a while.

Continue with the Lucy/Graeme thread. I love that one.

With Arthur it would be nice to see more development with his relationships with Duval's wife and with Jennifer. I found those to be quite interesting. Also even though he's been living in the modern world for a while now it would be nice if he still showed some distance from it - he was middle aged when he got here and should be somewhere between Goliath and Hudson attitude in dealing with modern times. (It would also be nice to emphasis that he is a King - he should hold himself up like one. He hasn't been forced to wander for centuries like Macbeth after all - he should be much closer to his Royal attitudes and roots.)

Merlin - I'd like to see less of a role for Merlin. He's been a major focus since the beginning - first with the quest and then with his own problems. He seems like a drain on Arthur. Arthur is and isn't in his shadow. Is because this is Merlin, his teacher after all. Isn't because he's just a kid at this point. It would be nice to see him sort of drift into the background a bit - the pain of betrayal from the last episode would fit in nicely in letting this happen. That way Arthur can finally move onto different things - threats to the London Clan, threats to Britain (he still sees himself as King of Britain so he should still take such threats seriously), adventures and mysteries.

Three last things -

First Rory and Banshee should be developed much more in this season. With Morrigan now in PENDRAGON (as shown by the S2 Finale) there is an antagonist for Banshee to fight - the Pendragon crew could use a Fey to fight a Fey. Also seeing how she's reacting to Umbriel's death and how that effects her dealings with mortals, especially Rory would be interesting.

Second is Morgana. Todd mentioned earlier how she's more like Jon Castaway than like Demona. Maybe it might be worthwhile to throw in the idea that she is kind of like Macbeth too - at least in motivation. She wants not just revenge but peace also. That's what she thinks revenge is going to give her. She's fighting now for mistakes that both sides made - Arthur as well as her - and she doesn't seem to want to admit to her role in it, instead placing everything with Arthur. (Now admittedly in Macbeth's case he has a better argument to throw against Demona but it does seem similier when you look at it.) I'd like to see her be more like A LIGHTHOUSE IN THE SEA OF TIME Macbeth - looking for revenge, not particularly liked by the main cast of protagonists, but also doing her own thing, going after her own ideas with her own idea of honor, of what's right and wrong. She's not Demona - revenge doesn't have to be the Alpha and the Omega to her.

Finally, the Minions. There are now tons of them wandering around. Some I imagine would go off with the Morrigan and some would go off somewhere else on their own. But it would be nice to see a few groups of them band together and begin to try and take over the British Underworld. They have the power after all - shouldn't they become a major force? And I don't mean in such a way as they just become underlings for existing crime families although that is possible - I mean independent Minion crime families in competition with existing ones - either wiping out the existing one's (ala Batman: Dark Victory) or transforming the very nature of the underworld itself (ala Savage Dragon).

GREG - You wrote: [As Todd asked what would you like to see in season 3 of "Pendragon", what would you like to see in season 3 of "Gargoyles"?]

A huge slowdown. (Like I said above, I'd underline it if I could - SLOW.) Main TGS plots have been moving at rocket speed. I expect that by Season 5 Demona will be the Gargoyle Mother Teresa and Goliath/Elisa will have 4 or 5 children the way things are going. There should be a slowdown in movement - specifically in two relationships and one redemption plot.

First Goliath and Elisa. In the original series they went at a snail's pace - it took them two years before they even had a first kiss. Now suddenly three years later they are ready to get married. Now I'll admit that near tragedy does seem to motivate the two of them - both times Elisa almost dies and then afterwards comes some movement in the relationship. But it would be nice if one of them noticed this, brought it up, discussed it, and decided that they should move at a pace they decide, not one that outside forces are going to rush them into. This engagement should be a very long one. They should sit down and discuss how things are going to be. Will they live together? Where? At the Castle with Xanatos or in her apartment? What about Sex? (I don't expect that to actually be discussed since TGS is trying to keep the TV-Y7 rating on itself but it is a good example of a question they would ask themselves.) Are they ready for such a move in the relationship? Are things moving too quickly? The Staff should not be afraid to break up this engagement (only for a while to keep get eveything back on a realistic pace - we all know that Goliath and Elisa belong together - but do they really know that yet?) if keeping it going for a really long time seems way too unrealistic.

Second Broadway and Angela. Another relationship that's been moving too fast. They probably got married way too early. They only knew each other 4 years which is actually 2 years of Gargoyle time. But that's not such a big deal - its the direction that they were heading toward anyway, it's just that they jumped right into it rather than taking small, slow steps that you would expect them to take. After all Broadway is a romantic, stuck in the era of detective novels where everything took a really long time and Angela is someone who was raised by a Princess on a mystical island and comes with all the ideas about love that someone raised in that environment would have.

The problem with them is that they are being run on an internal Human Clock instead of a Gargoyle one. Things are supposed to take longer - it's a difference between Gargoyles and Humans. Humans live fast paced lives, trying to get everything we can from the few moments of time that we have. Gargoyles live twice as long - they don't have to move at the same speed; And why is there such a rush for everyone to get married? I know Gargoyle fans are hopeless romantics but I never met people who got along as well as the couples in TGS. (That's probably why I enjoyed TIMEDANCER S2 so much - Sata and Brooklyn got along like real people. They were in love but they argued too; they disagreed, fought, and had different opinions.) With Broadway and Angela, it's almost like they are becoming one entity the way they agree on everything. Are we looking at a Gargoyle version of the X-Men's JeanScott entity, God Forbid?! It would be nice for them to act more realistically - argue/fight/quarell/etc. They are two people - let them remain that way. They don't have to be around each other all the time and they don't have to be in perfect synch on everything. (Besides if they do argue it makes for interesting story - especially since they do live with Goliath who likely to interfer which leads to a bigger argument, etc.)

Finally Demona. The speed at which she's been turned around is alarming. She's not in a marathon. One thousand years of reenforced behavior doesn't change in such little time even with Andrea and Angela hanging around her. I'm not saying that she has to revert to full 1995 Demona - that regression would make everything that's happened since that point in TGS meaningless. But she sure shouldn't be getting along with as many people as she has been. She should still have tremendous hate for Elisa and Delilah. The Clan should still be uncomfortable around her. Brooklyn shouldn't hate her like he used to but Broadway shouldn't be so happy to be around her. She's the sore point - the one that nobody can really trust no matter what, the one they tolerate only because of Angela. There should be a return to an older Demona attitude, although not to an older Demona behavior.

Xanatos - He's gone from someone who kept you on your toes and who you don't know what to expect to a trusted ally of the Clan. Two years of lies and tricks are instantly forgotten. Turning the Mutates into Mutates is forgotten. Has Xanatos lost his edge? Yes. Again like with Demona there should be tension existing. Can he be trusted? What is his angle? If something he's suggested is helping me then what is he getting out of it? Like it is now, he's just this benevolent billionaire who's learned his lesson and doesn't have to pay for anything he's done. The Mutates should still hate him. Derek should barely be able to control his rage around him - not to mention what his parents would say, no matter what he ever does for them. Elisa herself might be resigned to the fact that she has to deal with him but she should always have a thought against him in the back of her mind and an expression of contempt ready to flash at him. And some schemes on the side would be nice. After all it looks at this point like Xanatos has gone legit. And that would be such a terrible ending for such a great character.

The Gargoyle Gathering - Again its way too soon! There shouldn't be any major gathering of clan leaders before the middle of the 21st century. These are small isolated clans just coming out of their personal Dark Age. Why such a rush at a World Gargoyle Order when they don't even know if the currently exposed clans will be able to deal with the Humans as is? Utopia isn't coming anytime soon. One of the strengths of the Gargoyles Universe is that is was almost just like our universe. Changing that is a huge mistake especially since Utopia's are usually really boring - it's only the end of a Utopia or a threat to the Utopia that makes things interesting. On there own there's just no exicitement in the perfect world.

Less to no more Unseelie. They completely took over TGS - everything was connected to them and everything turned into one big cosmic battle with the fate of the world at stake. Enough of them - let's return to smaller foes, and more realistic threats. The same as I said with PENDRAGON, let Main TGS focus on NYC, or at least on North America - on a smaller area with less connection to other clans. Remember the days when the Manhattan Clan was on its own? To a certain extent I believe that it should be presented that way again. If there is a problem there shouldn't be a telephone call to Merlin for the answer - let Goliath and Company figure it out on their own. And above all remember that at the end of the day that as good a show as it was, this isn't Babylon 5.

In general I think TGS has been taking too optimistic a view. Most episodes end with a happy ending. Where is our METAMORPHASIS? Not everything turns out well. Not every ending is a good one. Not everyone makes it out alive from a conflict. Sometimes friends argue and relationships break up. And sometimes just having a draw with the villain is a positive. I hope that TGS S3 will remember that. It's good to have a happy ending but in a series if every ending is a happy one then it gets boring and unrealistic.
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:01:11 AM
IP: 136.new-york-13-14rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

Rodlox: Yes, officially the two series were mixed last season, but as I recall very few actually crossed the characters. There were Gargoyles episodes sometimes, and Pendragon episodes sometimes. Sometimes there were stories that featured Gargoyles events and Pendragon events in tandem. But very rarely did the characters actually mix.
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 08:53:59 AM
IP: webcacheh09a.cache.pol.co.uk

Hey, everyone! Got a good weekend?

Winterwolf:> If you didn't yet, please check your email.

Niamhgold:> So you've seen "Il Postino" with Massimo Troisi, isn't it? It is a very good movie IMO, Troisi was one of the best actors in Italy and his sudden death some years ago left an empty space in the soul of many...
About origins: my parents come from Naples (well, the surroundings) but they came here to Milan some years before I arrived in this world. My family's origin, though, is quite dispersed, I have ascendances from all zones of Italy and out of Italy too (I have dark hair and eyes, but my skin is quite pale). I've read of your sight problems. Ack! I'm afraid of hearing it. I have some sight problems too, but light...just enough to stop me from entering Italian Air Force :(. Anyway, I don't use contact lenses...they cause irritation in my eyes after a while, and furthermore I find them unpractical (to wear them I need a ten minutes and a table...while I can wear glasses in a second).
About your being a Daria-esque pessimist...I admit I am the same sometimes...as well as very sarcastic as I feel the need. I can be quite destructive with my coments if I want...;)
I got your email, will reply soon (as I finish "Full Bounty"...)

Doug:> Sure, I think there's no problem in you sharing the poem with your stepfather. Nico gave me permission to show his works to anyone I liked. Let me know what your stepfather thinks! I've started Nots 3...the problem with your works is that they're so damn good, that I can't read them in haste...so, if (like now) RL gets in my path, I need some time to finish it. Anyway, I'll send you feedback soon, it is a promise!

Katara:> Of course I remember you. Welcome back, and happy belated birthday!

See you all! I feel the temptation to try the run for the Top Ten tonight...we'll see.

Ciao ciao!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Sunday, July 9, 2000 06:19:55 AM
IP: h213-46-70.mi2.albacom.net

*Warpmind enters, holding a mug of coffee, blacker than a black hole.*
Must... have... morning... caffeine... *Slllp*

Rodlox: Simple question. It is, without a shadow of doubt, d).

Cyborg: Why do people see me as different? Umm... lessee now... My usual attire consists of a velvet jacket of a cut that was modern about 40 years ago, by my estimates, and I favor a felt hat which has over the years become quite shapeless... add then the walking cane I like using (I don't need it, it's just a gimmick) and my cigars, plus the fact that I'm just 20... yup, I stick out like a sore thumb. :) Oh, and I like to have my hair cut down to, oh, about 1/8", too. :)

Emambu: Erik isn't all that uncommon, I guess... I am forcibly reminded of a certain Erik Giles... But unless you've read the Jay Omega murder mysteries, that one's utterly beyond you. ;)

Christine: Rodlox was referring to Talus Yor's last line in "Battle of the Sexpots". That's the solar flare reference for you. ;) *High-fives Rodlox.*

Curly++: Actually, we *were* discussing peoples' sexual preferences. What other people do in that respect is something I do not interfere with. Provided, of course, it is not in direct violation of local law, in which case I feel morally obligated to question it. (One such example might be Mary Flanders' grievances.)

Doug: True, but they came from the other direction. Aw, sod it, it weren't the vikings, it wasn't Colombus and his crew, America was discovered by the Asians! Which does make one wonder what on earth the white man has been thinking of, using his own laws to get himself such a position of power, when that selfsame law actually would leave him powerless... :| By the way, on RP subjects: did you miss the scene when I brought the Quencher to the control room? Just wondering...

Daniel Johnson: Your birthday is May 23? Fnord! (Coincidencially, my closest friend was born on that date...)

Gside: Ack, never saw the Flying Circus? Oh, well... you've seen the movies, I've seen the Flying Circus. Together, we've seen it all. ;) (Okay, no Freudian interpretations of that comment, please...)

Archwolf: How I'm gonna pull the semi-organic hull off? I'm not going to pull it off; I'm going to make it a permanent part of the ship. Oh, wait... Oh, now I get it. I don't need Jedi for that; I have hired a certain genetic engineer completely lacking in the ethics department for that job. I'm sure you know him. :)

**RP**
Warpmind looks interestedly at the debate in the control room of the Avatar.
"So, you're the real SJ, are you?"
SJ turned to face Warpmind.
"Yeah?"
Warpmind grinned and stuck out his hand.
"A pleasure to meet you. I hold your father in high esteem. It's not easy to combine such an absolute lack of professional ethics with such a unique acting talent as he obviously can."
**RP END**(Okay, a bit short, but my creativity demons aren't awake yet...)

Cheerio for now, gang.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, July 9, 2000 05:48:10 AM
IP: mp-217-208-92.daxnet.no

GXB: It's okay, I understand. I've been busy this week too. Really busy. :) Looking forward to the feedback when it comes. <no killer rabbits or sock puppets> Ahh. :(

Gside: That's a good quote too. Thanks for it and also the bit about old wounds.

Curly++: Well, you must have played some role in her upbringing. Surely. :) Good to see you're modest, though, as well as proud. <grin> Yes, indeed there were. There's a link to an archive of last week's comment room at the top of the page if you want to go back and read over them. Don't worry, they're almost right at the top, you won't have to hunt that much. Cyborg can probably point you to most of it. Hope you read it soon (before tomorrow night when the room gets wiped).

Archwolf: That stuff about WOT 9 sounds intriguing alright. Hope you find that e-mail, I would be very interested in checking it out. BTW, who was it from? (Just wondering if we can count on them to be in the know.)

Gasper: Thanks for your words. Just so you and everyone know, I did not intend to put Graham Johnson (yes, I still remember the bastard's name) in critical care. Sometimes when you get violent you first get so mad you don't know what you're doing, you lash out without thinking and just go nuts, and it takes three people bigger than you are to stop you. That's about what happened with me. You're very right when you say violence isn't the answer, I understand that now. If I had understood it then, and if every other course I could have taken (telling them to stop, ignoring it, asking authorities for help, running away, etc.) had not been tried and failed to do anything, I probably would not have hurt him. But circumstances weren't like that. :( What happened to you sounds not quite as bad, but still unfortunate. Glad that you're over it now.
<Jean Grey> Sorry, I'm not too excited about her. Ever since Goldeneye, it's been impossible for me to think about Famke Jansen in any way without shivering and grimacing a lot. And that's the only movie I've seen her in too. <sighs> The cute girl I'm going for in X-Men is Anna Paquin, who's doing Rogue. Yeah, she's young and not that well-known, but she's an Oscar winner. She's got talent, brains, personality. She's cute too IMO. And I can be comfortable thinking about her in the way you think of the actress playing Jean Grey. (Yeah, I know, Jammer wondered what I'm on too.) Just hope her role looks better onscreen than it did in the comic adaptation of the movie that came out this week (same for Jean's and everyone else's- I expected a lot better than I saw).

All for now. Later.
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 03:15:00 AM
IP: pool-209-138-207-236-dlls.grid.net

Ah...the pleasures of Castlevania Symphony of the night and Suikoden. I got a PSX recently, along with those two games and FF7. I love it....How did I ever live without it.
Anyway, Doug, you are completely justified in what you did, though not so violently to put him in Critical care...damn, you must given that punk a wallop! In anycase, I know what it's like, and if you wish, though I will, I'm going to relate a story or mine.

Teasing sucks, popularity sucks...and I've advocated for a long time to stop following those damned jocks who tease and punish others for not being lucky in the genetic lottery. Well, in 8th grade (Graduated in 97), I was teased to the point where I did hurt someone. Someone decided to stick a label with a crude phrase on my back, and another person decided to ask about it, as if it was a joke. Over the next hour, he kept asking. Well, after lunch, I was talking to the girl I had a LARGE crush on at the time, and lo and behold, this kid comes up and asks. Well, I decided to get him to knock it off by grabbing his neck....so happens that he had a small neck and I had big hands, ended up leaving fingernail marks. Again, long fingers as well.

I ended up with Detention. ANd the kid...well, he still made fun of me afterwords, though it died down enough in High school...but sometimes Violence isn't the answer...so the point being....critical care might be something you aim for.....

anyway, enough rambling. 6 days till X-men....ahh....Jean Grey....

Nuff said, later.

Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Sunday, July 9, 2000 03:00:12 AM
IP: 209.83.84.4

*Archwolf slowly walks in, still wearing fencing gear* AHHH!!!! First time in 6 weeks I have been able to fence. GOD I MISSED IT!! And because of the way we built our Salle, the floors are not hurting my knee.

Mecord>ACK!! Well, lets hope your problems resolve themselves soon. God Speed, friend. And no, I won't eat any elves during your leave.

Katara>*Hugs* Hey, welcome back! Happy Birth Day, too!!

Thank you to every one who has wished me well at work. Things are getting better, since my partner and I started getting back at the Day Shift supervisor (she isn't the brightest, so we use really big words on our production reports).

Kit>Thanks for the well wishes. The one night stand taught me some things, but I still consider it a mistake. One that won't be repeated.

Doug>I was trying to find an email I recieved a couple weeks ago about WoT book 9. It looks promising (and in the end, Lews Therin is back. Rand is no longer in the land of the living. Not dead, just not here.) Lots of goodies happen. If i find it, I will send it.

Warpmind>Predator Mark II Semi-organic hull. Ouch. How are you gonna pull that one off without Jedi to blend the two?

Non-Conformity Poll>Chalk up one Furry (not, not a sexual preference, though for some reason, ppl think it is...go fig.)Werewolf computer geek fencer bike rider type person.

More later...got company.
Shade and Sweet Water
Archwolf - [archwolf@collegeclub.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 01:06:23 AM
IP: pumpkin-b-16.mcmurray.nb.net

"Xanatos">> sanity...got to have it first in order to surrender it. LOL

Currly++...>>. thanks for the song! Nice to see the new faces that have joined while I was gone.

Thanks to everyone for all the warm welcomes.

Katara - [garglover66f@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA
Sunday, July 9, 2000 12:58:35 AM
IP: aca6eeb1.ipt.aol.com

Doug>>
<the support we have was not done to be PC.> I didn't see that part, I only started reading with this weeks postings. I gather there were important elements of the discussion that I missed?

<BTW, hope you're proud of your daughter.> Not only proud, often amazed. I wish I could take credit, but she's a much better person than I.

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Saturday, July 8, 2000 11:30:14 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Warpmind> <<You're the only Pythonist loopy enough around here that I could think of>>: Sadly, I have seen hardly any of the Flying Circus. I really do need to rectify this someday (though the mp3 of the skits seem to help).
<<And we're PROUD of it!>>: Heck yeah! Can I get a Halleluja from the congregation?

Rodlox> cat: You forgot something semi-improtant. What are the chances of the radioactive element decaying in the time frame? Anyway, there will be two probability waveforms of the cat, one alive and one dead. It is so much fun applying quantum mechanics to marcoscopic systems.

Curly++/Cyborg> ++: Well, if you take the meaning it uses in the language, it could be applied to mean the next in the series. C++ is the language as incremented from C. Anyone else think Java could be called C+=2 ?

Emambu> <<whoever designed your roadway systems must have been drunk at the time>>: It still annoys one of my exroomies that you have to turn right to turn left.
<<There's a lot more to do in Atlantic City then in Rehoboth>>: You mean like playing a life sized version of Monopoly?

Mrs. Morgan> <<My cat is named Schroedinger ... usually gets weird blank looks, especially at the vet's>>: That's because they're worried about what you are doing to it between the times you see it (of course, so was Shro�dinger).

GXB> <<what would you like to see in season 3 of "Gargoyles">>: Lucy and Graeme to finally figure it out. I mean, you'd think they'd be suspicious about the odd times they are consious. No more armadillos. More Lex (hey, I'm a nerd, and would love to see some of the funky stuff he can do with his interface). Maybe Meryt sneaking around for a visit. Thailog threatening some more, and some non fay conflict. And it would probably be good to see Xanatos involved in some dirty deals. A thought about other series: What would Arthur do if he accidentally said five when he meant three (we do know he hates the movie)?

Winterwolf> <>: I think I might hold off on specializing until I get access to the really good stuff.
<<Cold is a minor group for me>>: I think cold might be a good thing to have, since you can't resurrect a chattered creature.
<>: I think that happens with Hell level Advocates in I. No sir, I don't like it. Another (confirmed) rumor:
**SPOILER** There really is a Cow level. After you win, transmute Wirt's leg and a tome of town portal. **/SPOILER**
<>: I'm starting I Charsi didn't geve me that unique staff. It only gives +1 telekinseis, but it does give such nice other bonuses.
<<Still there are other things I can do>>: Cue evil laughter.

Welcome back Katara, and many happy returns.

Curly++> <<CD recommendation: "Pachalbel's Greatest Hit">>: Is that the one with the many different versions, including a Japanese electronic orchestra (or something like that)?
<<so Larry became Shemp>>: That was not what I expected.

Doug> <<maybe, I should have used that one>>: Perhaps, but you could also have looked through Bartlett's on subjects associated with you. Maybe "Fool! said my muse to me, look in thy heart, and write" Sir Philip Sidney (who preceeded Longfellow's Voices of the Night).
camp: May old wounds heal.

GXB> <<There are no killer rabbits or sock-puppets>>: Aw, man.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, July 8, 2000 11:13:51 PM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

GXB:
What!?!?! No rabbits or sock puppets? It was all a deception? What's wrong with you people! Hell in a hand basket, I tell you--hell in a hand basket. Now I'll never be able to trust anyone again. :(
:(
:(
Ok, I'm better now. :)
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Saturday, July 8, 2000 10:32:29 PM
IP: ppp-05.rb5.exit109.com

Katara:
Welcome back and happy birthday! I don't think it'll be necessary to ask for your sanity since it seems you haven't acquired any while you were away. (:
----
Niamhgold:
May 23. I've never believed in astrology, but it can be fun sometimes.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Saturday, July 8, 2000 10:26:37 PM
IP: ppp-05.rb5.exit109.com

Doug> There are no killer rabbits or sock-puppets. it was all a joke ;)

And sorry I have not sent the promised feedback but I have been too busy to read part 3 so far. Though I promise feedback will come soon.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Saturday, July 8, 2000 10:19:08 PM
IP: dialin-514-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

**RP WARNING**

In the Underground City, Gubio, Mist, and Erin have just stepped off the elevator and been confronted by an armed and vicious-looking lion-man. Gubio and Mist are going for their weapons, but a gesture from Erin makes them frown in confusion and stop. "You old kidder," she tells the red-furred caiveh. "How dare you try to frighten my friends!" "I frightened you plenty of times when you were a child," the caiveh chuckles back, smiling as he drops the fearsome look, "and you never got angry, but now�" He laughs and then bows. "Welcome to the Underground City. I am Terrell Moonsword, your guide." "Uh, hi," Gubio grins sheepishly, nodding. "I'm Gubio, this is Mist. Do you always have to scare people like that when you meet them?" "If they're human, yes, he does," Erin answers. "He gets off on it." "I wouldn't call it that," Terrell shrugs, then looks at Gubio. "So you are the famous Alex Cleary. Erin has told me much about you. Now we finally meet. I expected someone a little more handsome." "Hey," Erin points out, "he's good enough for me." "I know, I know," Terrell snaps. "You don't have to justify yourself. Remember, my wife is the largest female in the City." He chuckles, then looks at Mist. "You are not a caiveh, but you look so much like one. What is the deal?" Mist meows and Gubio translates, "Magic. Ordinarily she's a housecat." Terrell nods. "I see. Welcome. So, Erin, have you been keeping your fighting skills up?" "I have," she nods. "We can spar later if you want. For now, we must see Vincent. There is a herb Gubio's friend needs desperately." "I know," Terrell nods. "You told me on the phone. Come, I shall take you to see him." "I have a few questions first," Gubio jumps in. "One, are you the one Erin said was her teacher?" Erin and Terrell both nod. "He's taught me almost everything I know," Erin says. "You can trust him." Gubio grins. "I'm not disputing that. But is your name really Terrell? It seems so�human." Terrell laughs. "My real name is very difficult for humans to pronounce. It is the same with all caiveh. So we adopt lesser names when associating with lesser beings." "I see," Gubio frowns. "Okay, that answers my questions. Lead the way." Terrell nods, turning to a nearby door. "Follow me."

The display changes to a large office full of strange sculptures where a golden-furred caiveh wearing a dark blue suit who bears an astonishing resemblance to Ron Perlman is yelling into a phone. "You must understand!" he shouts. "My people are not your slaves! I do not care what you threaten us with! The things you force us to do kill us, and you make us do them by threatening more death? We prefer a quick death to a lingering one of the kind your drugs can give us, Abdullah." "Is that so?" the person on the other end sneers in reply. "So you won't be making my drugs for me anymore?" "No!" Vincent snaps. "It has gone on long enough. Before, our Council feared your threats and agreed. Now that we have discovered what the very fumes of your drugs do to us, it will be different." "Very well," Abdullah shrugs. "I shall give you a day to change your mind. Enjoy that time. Remember, death by nuclear fire is not always quick." Vincent slams the phone down and starts going into a loud roaring tantrum that makes Gubio and Erin frown as they hear it from nearby while Terrell shakes his head. In his own office, Abdullah hangs up his phone and grins. "They will come around," he tells himself. "Of that I am sure." "You wanted to see me, sir?" a voice asks from the doorway, and Abdullah turns to see Tyl, Gubio's Evil Hacker nemesis, entering. "Yes, Tyler," the evil Arab crimelord nods, waving him to a chair. "How goes progress on the programming of what Khensu requires of us?" Tyl smiles as he takes a seat. "Almost done."

**SCREEN FADES OUT, END FIRST HALF RP**

<Doug walks in, smiling though he looks fatigued> Greetings everyone. How you all doing? Good, I hope. Sorry I haven't been able to come in here before now, this week has been one time constraint and RL hassle after another. Summer classes, work, family conflicts, and other things have pretty much all spoiled my vacation time. I had a good Fourth, but other than that I have not had the opportunity to relax until now. <smiles> But now I can relax for a while, and get caught up. Goodie. :) Next week should be even more hectic, what with it being the last week of summer classes for both me and Kit, but for now it can wait and be looked forward to (not!). And I can post and make replies.

Fanfic Progress: Thanks again to Peter for his feedback on Night of the Symbiotes Part 3, the only bit I've gotten so far. More is on the way, hopefully. I put a lot of time and effort into that story, hope it won't be ignored. :) As for the next one, I have thought about what I'm going to do in it, but not had time to put anything down on silicon because of the RL hassles mentioned above. Maybe next week I will have the chance to start writing. If anyone's wondering, it will be called "Losses," and deal with some of the immediate aftermath of what happened to Manhattan and many of the characters in NotS. There will also be a serial killer after Elisa's mom for some reason (don't worry, he probably won't succeed in his objective). Not sure when I'll start this story, but it will be soon.

Shadowrider: Thanks for translating your friend's poem and sending it to us. Thanks to him for writing it too. :) It's even better than his previous work that we saw in here. May I please have your permission to share it with my Italian stepfather Vincenzo Masi? Thanks again. Glad we agree about the publishing industry and hope they change their way of thinking soon. :) Looking forward to your NotS 3 feedback, whenever it comes.

Aaron: <"I'm glad I didn't ask him to park the car."> That wasn't about Kano, that was about Liu Kang. Easy mistake. The great line with Kano was, "C'mon, girl, give me a break!" Sonya- "Okay." <snaps his neck>

Ordell: Thanks for posting the Return to Paradise Making Of� link. It was a very interesting document that helped resolve a lot of confusion I underwent and issues I developed while reading the story, especially the first part. The director's cut was good too.

Daniel: <grins at reading last week's post on writing> I know what you mean, friend. I too try to be a perfectionist when it comes to writing. You wouldn't believe how often that eats up my time. No, maybe you would. <shrugs> :)

"Isacc Payne": Good Timedancer filk. You summed up the season's events and emotions well. I must say that I will miss your character after this season, even if his development could have used more attention at times. :)

Welcome back Lawrence, Airwalker, Zath, and others who have returned! Welcome back Katara, especially- Happy Birthday and thanks for the cake! Missed you all, good to see you again. Hope you will stick around a while. Welcome also to the newcomers. <grins>

SJ: <grins> Glad you have also read and enjoyed Long Walk. I remember that kid who ripped out his own throat, I was chilled by him too. I was affected more so by the Rabbit, though (you should remember who I mean). $ BTW, don't worry about the contract we got with Mephisto in the RP below disrupting any plans you have for him and your character too much. The Ravens won't find out for a while, but Mephisto's really been deceiving us- it's revoked by its own fine print. :) $

Rodlox: Didn't know there was a real legend involving the continent of Mu. Hmm, can't help but wonder if it will ever make into Gargoyles. Doubt it, since it sounds like one of those legends too blown out of proportion to be true, but still�Hmm. :)

Gside: <"To appreciate nonsense requires serious interest in life"> Hmm, maybe, I should have used that one. Oh well. Mine was "It's more satisfying when others discover your good qualities without your help." Yes, pretty dorky, I know. <sigh>

Robby: <if you ever do anything non garg-related, be sure to let me know!> Will do. Thanks for your interest, sorry you can't read and enjoy. :( Oh well, maybe someday. <shrugs>

Jannie: Will miss you, but have a great vacation! :)

Firestorm: Good bit about the CR atmosphere. I too have been wanting it to improve, like I told Theresa. Glad it seems to be doing that now, I'll help it along if I need to. :) Put me down for a lasting meaningful relationship with one person. Kit's taught me that the feelings you get in that are wonderful, and make the loving even more so. <grins, hugs his girl> As for your other question, well, I have no idea what my answer to it is. Never thought about it. Probably a lot like Kit's though. <shrugs> Glad you and Lady Mystic got our votes, thanks for telling us. Sorry about you losing your van. Have a good vacation with LM and your family. :)

GXB: Sorry to hear about what happened to you with Blockbuster. There goes my desire to ever work for them. :( Good luck getting another better job, hope you do soon. :) Thanks for the good Kurt Cobain quote also. If only I had heard that one back in my senior year and they would have let me include the word "asshole." <sigh>

Jenna: Sorry that troublesome co-worker of yours caused so much trouble when she left, but glad she's gone now. May your work be easier and your life be more comfortable now. <grin> If not, let us know what we can do to help.

Mary: Congrats on your courage and your good grades. <frustration with men> I can definitely understand that. <grimaces> Especially with the people you got mad at. You were in every right to do what you did, hope you don't have to do more than that at any time in the future. And hope you someday find some guy who does not frustrate you (congrats if you already have).

Mary, Mara, Cyborg, Bronx, Lawrence: Well, you all have certainly surprised me. :) Kit's sexual orientation and the related feelings I knew about, but yours I didn't. Not till now at least. :) Thank you all for revealing them, I know it took a lot of courage and trust (sad, but true :( ). Glad no one in here has lashed out at you because of the feelings (I'd be one of the many who'd be after them if they did). Also sorry about all the troubles you've undergone in the past due to these feelings of yours (especially the really awful ones like what happened with Mary's sister and Bronx's former friends), glad you've gotten through them and hope any troubles in the future will be easier for you to handle and deal with. Let me and Kit know if we can do anything to help other than provide friendship and emotional support (which we're doing anyway :).

Spacebabie: The abuse you describe is horrible and unfortunate. I'm sorry to hear it happened. I'm even more sorry I don't know what more than that to say to you. :( Glad you've gotten over the experience (it seems that way at least) and become a stronger person. If that's not so, and you need support or some other help I can provide you to make it so, just let me know.

Coyote: Your abuse experience I can empathize with more, I had one like it at a summer camp once. I've told you about it before, when I was thirteen I was sent to camp and thought it would be fun. Instead I had to endure a cabin full of snotheads and jerks for a month. There was the guy who pointed out everyone's insecurities and snickered at people over them, his big bully pal, a fat jerk who supported them, another little jerk who did the same, a wannabe bull queer, and me all in the same cabin. I became the target for all their verbal and emotional abuse, I don't know why but I did. The one guy in the cabin who wasn't a part of their gang kept to himself and ignored it, one of our counselors didn't take it seriously and said I was crazy to do that myself (he was wrong), and the other was an ex-Marine who egged the losers on. One of the most terrible experiences in my life. They made fun of everything about me- my speech impediment, my being overweight (never mind that one of them was even more so), my disdain for and ineptness at most sports, my lack of skill with the ladies (like they were any better, we were thirteen!), my snoring, everything. They would also short-sheet my bed, steal my stuff and hide it (the counselors wouldn't help me find it either), throw soap and shampoo at me in the showers, and do all kinds of other horrible things. It was a living hell. As you know, I finally snapped during the second to last week of it and put the queer in the infirmary in critical condition (note- this guy deserved what he got. Ordinarily I can accept and tolerate homosexuals, but when they sexually harass me and won't stop no matter how often I tell them it's uncomfortable and I'm not gay, and no one will do anything to intervene that works, I believe I'm in the right to do what I must). That made everyone but the guy who pointed out insecurities back off at teasing me and divested him of his power. Things were a bit easier after that, but still the experience pains me whenever I think about it. I had to endure vicious teasing when I was a kid too, but nothing as bad as this. :( Like you, I can't forget it, nor can I forgive the people who caused the experience. :( Sorry you had to experience something that sounds even worse, glad you've gotten through it. From now on, may you always have friendship and support wherever you go. If you don't get that, just look in here and you will find it. :)
<reads story about Detroit shoplifter and drops jaw> That shocks me. Especially the sheep's interpretation of events. :( Hope the truth is argued for by someone and gets accepted by more people. <fingers crossed> Also, congrats to your mom on the new car.

Non-Conformity: Put me down on the list for my being individual in thought, word, and deed as often as possible, like Kit said. :) I also happen to like a lot of things the community around me dislikes, and vice versa, and I'm willing to assert my opinions. Example- a couple years ago in Austin, some neighborhood organization tried to close down an adult movie theater on South Congress for obvious reasons. Kit and I were among the many who protested because of the place's right to free expression and so on (even though we had never been inside the place, we cared about its cause). We were unsuccessful in our efforts, but still we did what we had to. We're also gamers, fantasy and sci-fi fans, people who think animation's not just for kids, and a hundred other things of which the mainstream population of the world would not approve. Many have tried to normalize us, with no success. :)

Pendragon Season 2: Put me down for all the things Ed and Graymonk mentioned, except the Elaine and Arthur one (I'm another Arthur and Jennifer fan, and I really don't like Elaine- she's the kind of woman who needs to be rescued if she's in trouble, while Jennifer is the kind of woman who can deal with the trouble effectively herself and only needs a man for a little extra help. IMO, that makes her more attractive and a better mate for the modern Arthur :). I'm also hoping for some really significant development on the antagonists- Duval, Morgana, and so on- this season. Pendragon hasn't gotten that yet, and should. As for sock puppets and killer rabbits, well, I suppose those could be good for a few jokes. <shrugs> I'll see how things turn out.

Green Baron: You're indeed right that the hateful actions of militants promote more anger and phobia about things not considered normal than they do acceptance and understanding. I've known that for a long time. Still wishing more people would learn the same lesson, especially the militants. Treat other people the way you want to be treated by them- that is IMO the wisest bit of advice Jesus gave us and my philosophy on life.

Xenatrek: <nods> I too agree with you about disability. It should be overcome IMO if it can be, but people should not disdain those who have it if overcoming it is difficult or impossible, the way yours sounds. :( Sorry you have it, but congratulations on being able to live with it, hope you don't have any more serious problems with it in the future. As I have said to people above, if you need friendship and emotional support, it's easily found in here. :)

Emmabu: I agree with you about sexual preference, and think who a person is summed up by their character too. Your friend is definitely a good person with many wonderful qualities, no matter her sexual orientation. It is always very sad when people obsess over bad things and forget the good just because the bad things are there. :( Kit knows this too, probably the only reason she didn't go through high school with experiences like your friend had was that she kept her sexual orientation from everyone other than people she could trust (being a good judge of character, she thankfully didn't make any mistakes). Glad that she's gotten support and friendship from some people, including you (and us if we ever meet her). I also agree with you about differences of opinion. Everyone has the right to think what they want about anything, but no one should be trying to force that opinion on others. Especially not when it goes into cruelty and malice like it did with your friend. <sighs> I pray nightly for humanity to end this practice, and yet it never seems to do that. <shakes head> Wonder why.

Warpmind: <For crying out loud, it was the VIKINGS who found America 500 years before that upstart Christopher Columbus!> Don't forget the Asian ancestors of today's Native Americans were there even before them. :)

Silycondr/Curly++: Welcome to the CR. I agree with your opinion about bigots, and I also agree that seeing homosexual issues dealt with so much in the TV of the 90s was often tiresome. I didn't watch all the shows that dealt with it, but hearing about them was bad enough (don't get me started on Ellen Degenerate or Friends). Glad it is at least being dealt with better on TV now, or in Buffy anyway. When you deal with an issue on a TV show just for the attention it will get you, IMO it's wrong. When you have other reasons, like it's right for the characters involved, that's different. Same for real life. :) Again, welcome. Hope you enjoy this place. Some of your opinions I don't quite agree with (giving the people who've made confessions in here the support we have was not done to be PC, it was given because of who we are, the relationship we have with one another, and what this place is), but any friend of Cyborg's is a friend of mine. (BTW, hope you're proud of your daughter. She is truly a wonderful person and a great friend.)

Niamhgold: I too will be keeping the abandoned children in my prayers and hoping that things turn out good for them. Glad I'm not the only one in here who admits to enjoying solitude (though my time is always spent better when it's with Kit :) and being a heavy pessimist IRL at times. I'm nearsighted too, though not as much as you are. Glad you've been able to get over it and not suffered too many problems. :) I also agree with you and with Curly++ about science and art.

Harry Potter Books: IMO they're good but overrated. I've read many books that are better. Almost no books intended for young audiences, but many for adults. And being an adult, I am thus biased. :) As for the new one, well, I'm going to wait a while to buy it. Till the hype dies down at least. And till I have the time in my schedule. Then maybe I'll enjoy it as I have the first three. <shrugs> Sometimes the majority is right about things being good. Usually not (they certainly are about Backstreet Boys and N'Sync IMO, though I enjoyed Titanic), but sometimes they are. <shrugs>

That's about all for tonight. I'm caught up now. :) There was a lot to address, so I apologize if I didn't get to everything or address some topics as much as I might have. Next time I may remedy that. : ) That next time will come soon, I hope. <crosses fingers> Until then, everyone stay cool and have good lives! <waves>

**MORE RP NOW**

The screen comes back on, displaying the Avatar control room. Wilek sits at the main computer console, tapping keys and looking at screens as they are displayed. The Ravens who came up to the Avatar with him, Miriam, Mephisto, and others, are clustered around. "So is the station gonna be alright?" Stephanie is asking. Wilek nods. "It's going to take a lot of time to repair, but yeah. Thank you guys again for helping me get it back." "No problem," Kit smiles, looking at Mephisto. "Of course, it wasn't that easy." "You must understand," the demon lord growls, "I had my reasons for what I did. You think Nine is the worst of the Ten? The others can cause much greater destruction and they will. You can't fault me for wanting to escape." "Whatever," shrugs Jammer. "If they all can die like that Nine could, they shouldn't be too hard. Now about our deal�" "Oh, right," Mephisto sighs, taking a sheet of paper out of his pocket and handing it over. "Is that contract acceptable?" "I, Mephisto, relinquish the soul of Sevarius Jr. to the person who cares about him most," Jammer says after giving it the once-over. He nods. "It'll do." "Wait a minute, Jammer," Tricia cuts in. "Is it really that short?" "No, it's written in perfect legalese," Jammer replies, handing her the contract. "Look for yourself. What I said was just the translated gist of it. Except for a lot of ink smudges down at the bottom, it seems okay to me." "And you're our legal expert," Kit nods. She then turns back to Mephisto. "Alright, thank you, I guess you've fulfilled our deal." "Indeed," Mephisto nods. "Now, if I may have some means of leaving this station, I will depart." "Sorry," Miriam tells him. "We can't spare any ships. Nine's was destroyed by Khesaat, and the rest are ours. We can't give them to demons." "Then how am I to continue fleeing the Ten?" Mephisto asks, his eyebrows raised. "Hey pal," Keith says, "we never said we'd help you do that. The deal was, if we killed Nine, you'd give up SJ's soul and leave the station in peace." "But without a ship, how may I leave the station?" Everyone frowns, realizing he has a point. "You don't have to," Doug says before anyone else can reply. "You can stay here. The Ten are interested in Earth, right? So here they won't come after you. You'll be safe." "No, I won't!" Mephisto complains. "Nine came after me!" "The others might not," says Kit. "Anyway, you have no choice. We're not taking you back to Earth with us." She looks at Wilek. "Uh, you can spare a ship to get us back to Earth, right? We're needed there." "Don't worry," Wilek replies. "I will be sending Jake and Teri with a supply convoy to Area 51, we need supplies to rebuild. You can go back with that. I'll miss you, but I understand." "Thanks," Tom nods. "We'll miss you too." "And I can't go back to Earth on the same convoy?" Mephisto asks. "Would you want to?" Anthony asks him. "Your Ten friends are there." Mephisto sighs, nodding to show he concedes the point. Wilek grins. "Okay then. Miriam, take this guy to room with his minions who surrendered. Then come back here and we'll see what we can do about getting the station fixed and able to move again. That could take a while, but we'll do it. Ravens�" "Just tell us when the ship's leaving," says Lathrop. "Any minute now," Wilek replies. "I told Jake and Teri to wait for you in the hangar. Better hurry up." "We'll see you," Kit tells him and he nods. "Bye." The rest of the group also says goodbye and then they walk out of the control room, leaving Wilek to his tasks. "You coming with us?" Elena asks Anthony, who nods. "Still some things I have to do back on Earth." "Okay," Doug replies. "Guess we'll be glad to have you along." "Yeah," agrees Kit. "Oh, Doug, by the way, how you feeling? You've been getting a lot of good ideas recently like you did before your accident, is your memory coming back?" Doug sighs. "Yes and no. I'm remembering how to think creatively, how to deal with demons, and so on. But I still can't recall a lot of things. Like who Sevarius Jr. is for example, and why we did all this for him." "He's a good friend," says Boris. "That's enough." Kit nods in agreement as they keep heading for the hangar. "I hope he's alright."

**ONLY SJ CAN KNOW THAT, OF COURSE. :) END RP**
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Saturday, July 8, 2000 09:31:13 PM
IP: pool-209-138-160-214.dlls.grid.net

Ed: < Plus it might be nice to have a crossover with Pendragon at one point.> last i checked, at least *half* of all the Pendragon stories were also in the Gargoyles file {garg series, distinct from pendragon}.

a scary thing, that is!

Rodlox
Saturday, July 8, 2000 08:33:53 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

Curly++ wanders by wondering about artistic scientists...

Niamhgold>>
<it takes an artistic mind to develop scientific tools, theories, and models.> I would agree if you would add the word "good" before each. In fact, good scientists evaluate each others work (peer review) using a number of criteria, one of which is "beauty." As well as Da Vinci, Einstien is a good example of this. Einstien tore the universe apart and rebuilt it, yet quotes from his informal communications are peppered with appreciation of the beauty of the universe and it's maker.

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Saturday, July 8, 2000 07:10:19 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

GREG - I agree with you about "The Dragons' Graveyard" - it was a very effective episode indeed, and a thought-provoking one. (It was also written by the same Michael Reeves who wrote for "Gargoyles" later on). Had shades, for me, of "Hunter's Moon" in it.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, July 8, 2000 06:44:45 PM
IP: 216.87.46.178.dialup-stl.primary.net

Curly++ arrives with a look of ecstasy. The strong smell of roquefort cheese sends half the CR, choking, as far as they can get from the screen.

Revel>>
<saw this pad that you can use to draw on your computer> For a computer artist it is *the* input device. It replaces your mouse and lets you draw with amazing speed and flexibility you will never achieve with mouse or keyboard. I saw an artist demonstrating Corel Draw 9, not so much the program but the pad she used blew my socks off. I'm sure her pad was professional quality. <you can create graphics of trace something> If you just want to get existing graphics in, a low end scanner would be faster and easier.

Katara>>
Happy bird day to you,
Happy bird day to you,
Happy bird day Katara
from all us bird brains.

Sevarius Jr.>>
 Sounds like me talking about the gay rights movement. Lucky I had already got the point before the hype started, eh?

Gside>>
<Canon> CD recommendation: "Pachalbel's Greatest Hit". My friends are tired of it.
<Curly++ imply the sixth stooge?> No, originally it was just "Curly". I hung out with with a couple of friends at work, one named "Larry", another maned "Meyer" and me, "Curtin". We had a bad sense of humor, picked on the really bad programmers we had to work with, so naturally, people started referring to us as The Three Stooges. Meyer became Moe, I became Curly, so Larry became Shemp. It was later, when I tried to use Curly on a BBS that I found out common it was. Curly was taken, Curly1 was taken, Curly2 was taken, when suddenly I remembered how many people knew me first by phone and were surprised to find I had a thick head of hair. C++ was new and everyone was "++"ing everything so... "++" means "with hair". I expect I'll have to change it to "--" for a while. :-)

Warpmind de InzanE>>
<It's the EXCUSE> ROFL Yeah, I've been using the tumor as an excuse for *everything* for the last month. Very liberating. :-) It'll be a shame when I have to go back to being (ir)responsible.
<if someone shows severe sociopathic tendencies> Ok, I guess I missed the mention of that. I'm gonna blame the tumor. I thought we were only talking about acceptance of other people's sexual preferences.

Kyryn>>
<easy way to roughly figure a poster's id is the ip address> Yeah, noticed that after. Not a pleasant thing to see. It's either meaningless for most dialup accounts or for permanent connections using M$-Windows it's an invitation for a security breach.
<That's not the type of image you want to have running around> Very good advice!

Cyborg>>
<You mean I'm the first (or only) to do something... again?> Yes, you were the first to suggest baby pictures. Now let's see what I have near the scanner... Try this: http://pages.infinit.net/curlypp/cyborg/lunch.jpg

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Saturday, July 8, 2000 06:29:08 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

** Niamhgold enters **

Hi, guys! Won't be here for long, since it's Saturday and it's *pretty* out! :)

Titanic: Since so many people are sharing their thoughts on this movie, I think I should share my personal experience. Because I didn't go to see it on my own...a guy I am glad I no longer hang around with was the one who *wanted* to see it; he dragged me with him. Since I was working my butt off at the time, I hadn't seen any commercials about the flick, and had no idea what it was about. Imagine my surprise when it turned out this guy was *begging* me to go to a sentimental movie? And liked it better than me?

Weird. ;}

N'sync (is that how you spell it?): Hate 'em too.

Winterwolf: Thanks for clearing up the Diablo II spell info! I think Niamhgold should be a definite lightning snapper (then I can *really* use "boy/girl fried") ;D So water's not really an elemental choice?

Shadowrider: Replied to your email!

Gside: I see your correlation between spell-slingers and engineers now! :) (And don't worry, I don't have any misconceptions about what ceramics people do--at least, not since Ed took up the profession with high hopes, then told me it's not all it's cracked up to be (no partial-pun intended! ;))

Curly++ : Nice point about the science/art thing. But I feel that it takes an artistic mind to develop scientific tools, theories, and models. Just as a visual artist renders a landscape to their viewpoint, a scientist can render our perception of the world by developing a model system. Most people who are greatly artistic are (or should allow themselves to be) highly adept at science and mathematics; one cannot live without the other. Da Vinci is a good example one thusly blessed. And, personally, I feel that art (and any other skill) is not a talent, but an innate ability that one merely has to tap, train, and grow. The only reason we humans are not running around as geniuses in every field may just be because we haven't learned how to develop each skill to its fullest extent, without taxing our physical strength. Dern it, we *need* that extra 90% of our brains!

Er, okay...I tend to go off on tangents when I start waxing philosophical ;0 I'll try to be better this time!

Daniel Johnson: ** High five! ** Hello, fellow Gemini! Yep, we're the mutable Air sign, meaning we tend to scatter our energies in every direction. It has to do with the Twins in the sign. Apparently, we're also supposed to have a great general knowledge, hate to be consistent, be un-superficial, act cheery yet pessimistic/realistic, and be mostly introverted. They don't say anything about eyesight...but I'll look into it! ;) What month are you, May or June? You can figure out more stuff by determining the star fixed to your birthday, as well.

Did I say this post would be short? Sheesh! I'll leave before I get booted out! ;)

Adios, amigos!
Niamhgold - [niamhgold@hotmail.com]
Saturday, July 8, 2000 06:25:29 PM
IP: lac-flex106.ncia.net

Hi guys!

Winterwolf: Thanks! ^_^

What I'm expecting/hoping for in the third "Gargoyles" season replying to Greg. Um, above all the same level of accessibility for new readers that I mentioned with regard to 'Pendragon'. I don't have the memory to remember all of the older stories that well even with the out-of-context previously sections so I'm hoping that the new season will be fully accessible to even new TGS readers. That doesn't mean abandoning continuity, simply taking care that where references to past episodes are important to the plot, they're explained nicely.

Other than that, I hope Elisa and Goliath slow down a bit. Because of the whole Madoc thing they've been given less focus time than I think they might have. I hope that the scale of the series zooms right back in so that Goliath is central again. It would be nice to see lots more of Thailog, the Ultra-Pack and the Canmores. Plus it might be nice to have a crossover with Pendragon at one point. It would also be nice to see the nastier side of Demona resurface more often.

I've been reading through the "Timedancer" episodes with varying attentiveness (mainly because I want to get through them all while I have time). The stories are pretty good but not all of them really reach out and grab me. In fact, a lot of the focus is on characters new to TGS and while I like these characters, it might be good to have some old foes like Macbeth in. (I haven't finished reading the series yet).

"DEALS AND EXCHANGES" was touching, and packed with emotion. Outstanding stuff. "A THOUGHT OF THE HEART" was nice because I like the characters featured, but it did feel awfully like a sequel for the sake of a sequel - I mean, the concept driving the story was 'the Caliph has started his menagerie again' which isn't exactly original. "I AM BECOME DEATH" has a great title, but Payne annoys me intensely for no reason I can lay my hand on, so irrespective of the terribly poignant ending this wasn't my favourite. Still, I like the idea that Brooklyn gains a regular travelling companion besides those that would are expected. Same with Harthoth and Isfet as effectively regular villains. "ABANDONMENT" had quite a bit of character, with a lovely ending despite the convenient time-jumps.

Anyway, I'm off to read the rest. Good stuff, guys! ^_^
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
London, England
Saturday, July 8, 2000 06:22:18 PM
IP: webcachew10b.cache.pol.co.uk

Christine: that was a reference to the end of 'battle of the s*xpots' by a certain someone...."something safer - like solar flares." sorry for being hard to understand!

Rodlox - [Rodlox@hotmail.]
Saturday, July 8, 2000 05:14:47 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

Welcome back to the CR Katara. If you would please re-surrender your sanity it will be as if you never left.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Saturday, July 8, 2000 04:03:41 PM
IP: dialin-514-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

*The doors to the CR fly open, bouncing off the wall with a resounding bang. Katara and Canyon enter, dragging behind them an ENOURMOUS cake. They drag the cake into the middle of the room. With a wave of her hand, the lights slowly fade out. After 3 seconds of complete darkness, fireworks and sparklers go off, heralding 2 special occassions...1) the anniversary of her birth...and more importantly..2) her return to the CR!...*insert big cheesy grin here*

GREETINGS AND SALUTATIONS EVERYONE!!!

It's been a long, long time I know. And more than likely most of you have forgotten me, but that's okay. I have returned once again to bring a little nonsense to this room. (like we need anymore of it right? LOL) Anyways, I thought of going through this week's comments and see if I had anything worthwile to contribute. However seeing as it's already Saturday, the room will be wiped tomorrow, and there is just to much here for me to shift through..(heck.. i'll be here until my NEXT birthday at this rate! LOL)...I'll just wait until the room wipes and see what the topic is then.

So, in the meantime, everyone help yourself to some cake. It's fat-free...the fat won't cost you a dime! LOL I'm glad to be back, as I've missed everyone dreadfully. I promise to try to stay current with the room disscussions and dedicate as much lurking time as possible. *MAJOR BIG HUGGLES TO EVERYONE!!*
Katara - [garglover66f@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA
Saturday, July 8, 2000 03:30:55 PM
IP: 98a829e0.ipt.aol.com

**Winterwolf enters**

Hi gang! Well now I know you can't drop any html in a post.

Gside> Why can't we all just get along? I could always give you some good stuff. :) <specializing> I think you have to specialize to a certain degree. I have one big attack for each group but only use certain spells. It makes playing the same character again later interesting. My primary group is Fire and my secondary is Lightning. Cold is a minor group for me. Looking it over specializing in any element will work well. Be careful it is important to have back up spells in the other two elements. Some monsters are resistant to certain elements. I heard a disturbing rumor that some monsters are resistant to all magic. It sounds like pro Barbarian propaganda to me. Here are my spell picks the first time around. If you want damage numbers or other info just ask. If I put used one skill point then I don't think it is worthwhile to put more than one skill point in the skill.

******WARNING MINI DIABLO II MAGIC SPOILER******

Fire:
Warmth - Mana regeneration is big. I've only spent one on this since I use a staff with +3 skill to warmth.
Inferno - This is a good offensive skill available at level 6. Can hit multiple targets. Con: Big mana drain.
Blaze - This is a great spell against all the monsters that want to go into melee with you.
Fire Wall - Excellent spell for killing enemies.
Lightning:
Static Field - This is an excellent spell to soften you enemies. It is supposed to reduce heath by 33%.
Nova - This is a great spell.
Telekinesis - Push monsters back and pick up items (destroy barrels) from a distance. Used one skill point.
Teleport - Excellent spell to get you out of difficult situations. Used one skill point
Ice:
Frozen Armor - Useful for when you must go into melee. Any hand to hand hit will freeze attacker.
Ice Nova - Great for slowing all monsters near you. Damage is negligible. Used only one skill point on it.
Ice Blast - Great for immobilizing enemies. Damage is key on this one. Shoots a little slow.

******END MINI DIABLO II MAGIC SPOILER******

Mecord> I hope you get everything resolved soon. You will be missed while you are away.

Janine> <mom> What? She couldn't just have a rational discussion with you. Explain how she didn't like what you have to wear. Sometimes people just seem to go too far. :( **HUGZ**

Zath> <cat> Maybe there is a real phantom cat watching you. O.O

Lady Mystic> Got your email. Totally understand. I'm just a little sad now.

Niamhgold> Wow it's Saturday already! I'll reply to your last email right after this post.

Cyborg> <Testing - Monty Python reference> I like it. I like it a lot! :)

DPH> That was meant to be a surprise? Oops!

Skippy the Klingon> <net access> Ack!! That sucks.

Matthew> Yeah we all know he was off hiding somewhere. ;)

Brooklyn> Sorry for the delay. Check your email.

Brooklyn and Janine> I seem to be missing you guys lately. :(

Gside> <s8_cgi.h> Interesting. Still there are other things I can do. ;p

**Winterwolf exits.**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Saturday, July 8, 2000 03:07:57 PM
IP: nas-7-193.nyc.navipath.net

Non-Conformist Poll> I'm definetly a non-conformist. I wear my hair long, I wear black, and a black trench-coat with a silver medalion shaped like a dragon. I sort of wanted to make myself look like a modern day sorceror (the coat instead of a cloak). I am flexible though and will try anything once. But like Severius Jr, i have not and will never watch "Titanic". And I'm a big believer in standing up for the rights of the individual.

I remember a couple weeks ago people here were talking about how the "Dungeons and Dragons" cartoon was hokey and poorly done. Well, I'd like to think those of you who watched today's episode, entitled "Dragon's Graveyard" would change your minds. It was a very powerful, chilling story which asked the question, do we have the right to kill a living being even if they are evil. Though the protagonists did not slay Venger, they came close to commiting murder. And I found myself wondering what I would do in their shoes. And I still wonder. This was surely the best episode Fox has re-ran, and I hear back in 1983 it caused a battle royale between the writers and CBS S&P.

Now for something "Gargoyles" related. As Todd asked what would you like to see in season 3 of "Pendragon", what would you like to see in season 3 of "Gargoyles"?
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Saturday, July 8, 2000 02:57:23 PM
IP: dialin-514-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

My cat is named Schroedinger ... usually gets weird blank looks, especially at the vet's.

Rodlox > solar flares in MageLore? Huh?

Christine
Saturday, July 8, 2000 02:34:00 PM
IP: 07-124.009.popsite.net

*Emambu bounds into the room, slips on a banana peel that someone has carefully placed at the doorway, and lands face first into the coat rack. He gets up shakily, with nothing bruised except his pride of course*

Oh real original, guys! :)

Gside: I have nothing against New Jersey (although whoever designed your roadway systems must have been drunk at the time). There's a lot more to do in Atlantic City then in Rehoboth. I just prefer Delaware's beaches which are cleaner and hold a friendlier atmosphere, that's all.

Warpmind: Well, it's hard to boast ones Scandanavian roots when there's less then 10% of it in ones blood. :) Besides, everytime I tell someone my name, I'm boasting my heritage in a way. I mean, "Erik" isn't that uncommon a name (example: Erik the Red).

Brooklyn: Glad your back. Hope you had a good time. BTW, could send me part 2 of your story also? If not, that's fine. I'll read it when it appears on the fanfic site.

Firestorm: I did follow the FAQ. Oh well, I probably missed something.

Mary: That's too bad. Men can be slobs sometimes; I know because I am one (a man, not a slob) :). When my mom was thirteen some guy asked to marry her, so whatever our collective hormonal problems are, they've been around for a while.

Rodlox: If you're thinking of Schroedinger's Cat, then my answer would be neither (or "e"). The cat would both alive and dead until the cat's state is actually observed. Of course, this is only if you're talking about Schroedinger's Cat. Otherwise, I have no idea.

Non conformity poll: I guess I'm an oddball too. I mean, I won't go against the grain just for the sake of being different. I didn't like the movie Titanic either. However, it wasn't because the majority loved it. I didn't like it because I thought it was a crappy movie. I really don't like N'sync and the Backstreet Boys. It's not because everyone else loves them. It's because I personally don't like their music, or any of that modern techno-pop for that matter.

Matthew: Aside from the lines that borrow from Star Wars, as Revel pointed out, there are a couple other spots too where the scenes look like they're from Star Wars. For example, on the drifter ship "New Bangkok" there's a section of the ship that looks exactly like the Death Star. The gun consoles on the Titan that Stith uses to shoot down the incoming Drej fighters look suspiciously like the gun consoles on the Millenium Falcon that Han and Luke use to shoot down the incoming TIE Fighters in ANH (A New Hope).

---Emambu
Emambu - [ErikMambu@aol.com]
Philadelphia, PA, USA
Saturday, July 8, 2000 01:53:31 PM
IP: spider-wm022.proxy.aol.com

<<I'M ONLY 17 YEARS OLD YOU PERVTED IDIOTS!!!!!! LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!!>>
You don't know how often I've begged to hear a line like that!! :o)
The way I hear it, in the state of Ga 16 is the age of consent. Hehhee ::perverted thoughts::

Hey child molesters! Luk but don't touch!! I'm fine with lukin... cause sum 13 year olds are the BOMB!!! Just don't touch!!! ;o)

Metallica/koRn concert last night- OMG!! That I was gonna die from over sexual excitment, plus just plain excitment!!! Kid Rock was ok...., but I was really anticipating koRn. When Jonathan Davis stepped on stage I thought I was gonna die! I mean he's the most popular sexually deranged freaks in the world!!! The koRn set was such a stress reliever for me, just because I got to scream along, I don't dig the whole moshin thing. Metallica's lead singer, James was in the hospital..., so what did metallica do??!?! They offered a free concert for Aug. 4th, plus got kid rock and koRn to play with them!!! Talk about FUN!!!!!!! YaY!!!
jacKal
Saturday, July 8, 2000 12:57:58 PM
IP: ac868c7e.ipt.aol.com

Rodlox:
Ah, the Schroedinger's Cat paradox. I've always been fascinated by quantum mechanics. :) I know the answer and the explanation behind it, but I'll let someone else take a crack at it before I say anything. And it's not really simple unless you're familiar with quantum theory. In fact, it's counter-intuitive. And Cyborg is right: it matters whether the box is opened or not.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Saturday, July 8, 2000 11:49:49 AM
IP: ppp-28.rb5.exit109.com

Hello and good morning to those of us it is still morning to. Anyhow I always thought this was the most interesting thing about this comment room that even though nothing new is running we still have discussions going on.

Now I just have to think of something to say.
Oh yeah, now I remember. I was at Best Buy yesterday with a friend of mine and I saw this pad that you can use to draw on your computer. FRom what I could tell from the box is that you can create graphics of trace something (a drawing in my case) so that it will apear on the screen. My question to any and all who read this is, is it worth buying or does it come out like crap and I should just pass on this one?

Titan AE- The only line from Star Wars that they used deliberatly that I saw was, "Should I get out and push?" When they were leaving the Drifter Colony.

Christine-Another Shameless Plug? Sounds good already.
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
the bayou city , tx
Saturday, July 8, 2000 11:47:03 AM
IP: spider-wd052.proxy.aol.com

Rodlox:> Simple logical question: Is the box gas-proof? And what are its dimensions?

Real post later
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Saturday, July 8, 2000 11:44:24 AM
IP: h255-20-156.mi2.albacom.net

Non- conformity poll update> one goth, two oddballs, one gifted, two who prefer not popularized pastimes, four individualists, one hellraiser, one with Asperger's Syndrome, one Daria- esque, one FTW type

I am really begining to wish that I could cut and paste from the text editor to netscape. This is my last post untill Monday or Tuesday, as the Comicon is on this weekend. It's not so large (or well known) that I'd expect anyone else here to be in attendance (even had I mentioned it earlier). Last year I picked up a good Siverburg/Blish pulp twofer.

Warpmind>"I don't use Asperger's as the CAUSE for my being different. It's the EXCUSE." Ahh. If that is your excuse, why do people see you as different before you excuse it to them?
"Warpmind enters, with no special effects, for once." In a way, that IS a special effect.

Gside>"would Curly++ imply the sixth stooge?" My Dad is a computer programmer; think language. Really Gside, with the amount you and he have in common, I'm surprised you did not pick up on this. Then again, if you have that much in common, maybe it makes sense...
Alot of thought went into my Dad's handle, I'll let him explain the rest of it (if he wants to).

Brooklyn> Thanks! I received Part II no problem. I'll tackle it right after the Comicon.

Rodlox, re: simple physics question> Do we observe the cat after the five minutes have passed, or is that simply the elapsed time (wheather or not the trigger mollicule has decomposed). In each case, it is a compleatly different question.

*looks over to her bed, a small grey cat is on it* Stormy is sooo funny sometimes. She tries to dig through my bed, which makes me glad that she has been de- clawed or there would be a BIG mess (and no bed). Well, she has managed to move some blankets to her satisfaction and is curled up in her nest, happy as can be. The funniest is when she diggs herself UNDER all the covers, so that you can't see her at all, or at most, only her little face poking out.
*She leaves to pet her pussy cat*
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Saturday, July 8, 2000 11:15:56 AM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

<---sadly not Cagney, so this'll have to do for this Poll.

simple physics question:

lock a cat in a box with a can of poison gas - the gas will only be released when the measuring item {measuring the decay of a radioactive atom} strikes.

what state would the cat be in after five minutes?

a) Alive.
b) Dead.
c) what cat? it's a doornail.
d) bloody furious.
e) other - fill in answer.

Rodlox
Saturday, July 8, 2000 10:55:12 AM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

*Warpmind enters, with no special effects, for once.*

Cyborg: I think you misunderstood me... I don't use Asperger's as the CAUSE for my being different. It's the EXCUSE. :)

Gasper: Considering I saw "Toys" on one of the 24/7 movie channels, I'd say there's a fair chance I didn't see the edited thing. :)

Curly: Okay, if someone shows severe sociopathic tendencies, I would most likely err on the side of caution rather than acceptance. You see?

Aaron: Sorry, bud, but you were WAY off target... to give the joke away: I'm not sure if that slogan is used in the US, but over here, the AXE series of hygiene products (deodorants, after shave, et cetera) for men is advertised with "Axe. Don't use it if you don't mean it." ;)

Daniel Johnson: Well, if I gave you some food for thought, and even a place to start, well, all for the better. :) Good luck.

Mary Flanders: Speak softly, and carry a big stick. ;) Seriously, though, maybe you should consider "wearing" a physically aggressive aura? ;)

Gside: The Eric the Half-A-Bee thing? You're the only Pythonist loopy enough around here that I could think of. ;) And as for your Asperger info, well, yeah, it DOES sound like most of the world's nerds. And we're PROUD of it! ;) But really, there's actually a lot of research going into those areas even as I type - it's damn near the "flavor of the month"...

Well, this is Warpmind de InzanE, logging off.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, July 8, 2000 05:29:08 AM
IP: mp-217-209-197.daxnet.no

What does it say that I am currently wearing a Vernmont cribbage t-shirt?

And does anyone else think (Pachelbel's) Canon sounds amazing with the bass pumped all the way up? To the point where the car starts vibrating?

Mecord> May your problems be resolved sooner and easier than you expect.

Zath> <<but does the "art" include a broken microwave, or merely a messed up cd>>: As long as you put a piece of paper towel under the CD, you will be fine (as far as I know, the only problem is melted labels sticking).

Fire Storm> <<Will there be a way I could get the MP3's you post while I am gone?>>: If you have a large quota, I could email them, but I don't think that is generally a good idea. I haven't been regularly using AIM or ICQ lately. Unless you are absonlutely desperate for whatever my deranged little mind decides to do next, I think the best/easiest might be to repost, as I did for Gunjack.

Warpmind> <<spontaneously bringing Gside in on an astounding performance of "Eric the half-a-bee">>: "Half a bee, philosophically, must, ipso facto, half not be..." "Cyril Connolly? No, semi-carnally!" To what do I owe this honor?
<<Asperger's Syndrome>>: "qualitative impairment of reciprocal social interaction...a restricted, stereotyped, repetitive repertoire of interests and activities...common for them to be markedly clumsy" Is it just me, or does that describe geeks/nerds/etc. the world over? And it just could be an X-linked trait (8-1 male-female ratio, so those of us with Ys are more likely not to get a correct dominant gene).

Naimhgold> <<so near-sighted that I can't see anything once it moves two feet away>>: I can't focus on anything unless it is about 6 inches away.
<<However, I think that whatever talent/skill anyone has is their personal form of magic>>: Sounds about right, but I was thinking more in the cannonical sense with an analogue between a well designed spell and a well designed feat of engineering (building, circuit, toilet bowl (what do you think cremaic people did, fiber optics?)). Plus the character focus in intelligence.

Winterwolf> <>: s8_cgi.h replaces any characters that could remotely be interpreted as part of html tags, and replaces them with their html character entities.

Daniel Johnson> <<Zip Disk? 400 megs?>>: I was referring to the fact that the intelligence in quesion only required 380 megs to store his consiousness.

Curly++> <>: I'd say the idea behind it is that things happen for you when you observe them. Which leads to a whole bunch of funky stuff.
BTW, does your handle imply "Joe"? I mean, if Moe++ implies Shemp, Shemp++ implies Larry, and Larry++ implies Curly, would Curly++ imply the sixth stooge?

Aaron> <<DII is out?!? No way! Where can I get a copy?>>: I got mine at ebworld.com, preordered five days in advance.
<<San Antonio was recently called Newark with better margaritas>>: Newark is not a good place. a worse place would generally be Camden. Both have Rutgers campi. Coincidence?
<<Nudge, nudge, wink wink>>: Grin grin, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more. Say no more, Squire!

Mary Flanders> May you not have to deal with such improprieties again.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, July 8, 2000 02:05:46 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

Cyborg:
Ah, well you did open your mouth and must therefore accept responsibility. I'm sure the teasing won't last too long. Probably.
----
Mary:
I'm very sorry to hear about your problems. Such stories always anger me. Why do so many men act this way? It's always puzzled me. Is there something wrong with me that I don't think this way? I'd better stop now or I'll go on a rant.
----
SJ:
Hear, hear! We may have different opinions on many things, but we're definitely in agreement here.
----
'Nite folks.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Saturday, July 8, 2000 12:39:33 AM
IP: ppp-36.rb5.exit109.com

Winterwolf>> You failed the test. That'll teach you to trust Thersites to do what you ask him :)

Titan A.E.>> There was a dig at Star Wars? What was it? I didn't notice it when I saw the movie.
Matthew - [matts1@bellatlantic.net]
New City, NY, USA
Friday, July 7, 2000 11:55:38 PM
IP: adsl-151-202-114-87.adsl.bellatlantic.net

Just a couple things tonight. I want to rush out to the bookstore, because as we all know the new Harry Potter book goes on sale this weekend, and people are already lining up for it. I don't want to buy it, I just want to laugh my ass off at the poor schmucks who'd stand in line at midnight just to get the first copy. As I'm sure my hero, Tyler Durden, would say, we truly live in a consumer society.

Bigot Question: I would say that Daniel Johnson brought up the important point of whether you're defining someone as a bigot by their thoughts or actions. I would say that no one has the right to act like a bigot. But I would absolutely say that someone has the right to be a bigot in their own mind. Like DJ said, controlling thoughts is the ultimate in political correctness. We don't live in a big brother society just yet. If someone wants to be an asshole, that's fine, they just shouldn't act like an asshole.

Speaking of acting like an asshole.....as far as the non-conformity poll goes, I consider myself to be a FTW type. You can figure that out. FTW stands for F*** The World. I'm vigorously non-conformist at times, to the point where I experience anger at things that are so strictly conformist.....Take the whole Harry Potter thing. I'm not liking Harry Potter too much right now. I've never read the books, and in fact I'm sure they're entertaining. I just can't stand them, though, because I have a million newspapers, tv shows, etc. telling me how GREAT they are. Same way with the movie Titanic. I HATE THAT MOVIE. Hate it with a passion. Of course, I've never SEEN it. Ever. And I never will. Because so many people have *told* me that it was "the best movie they've ever seen"....it's like a warning bell goes off in my head. I got so sick of hearing praise for that movie, I developed this intense hatred for the movie, and I've never even seen it. As soon as something becomes very popular or "hip" or "in"....I just start hating it.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Friday, July 7, 2000 11:50:35 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

*enters*

OK, a really disgusting thing happened to me this past week. Twice! On Tuesday, I was downtown at Borders with my parents looking through the Wicca and Magick books they had, when a grad student tried to pick me up! O.o Luckily my dad was just around the corner and scared him off when the guy asked me what I was planning to do for the 4th of July. ^_^ Then today when I was walking around downtown again, our town's local homeless guy (an disgusting old man with a long beard. >:P) asked me if I had change. I said no, then he tried to tell me where to meet him at 5 o'clock after he got off of work! (I know this guy had to be either homeless, crazy, perverted, or most likely all of the above.)
What the f%#$@ing hell is up here?!?! Do I appear to be easy or vacant to guys????? I'M ONLY 17 YEARS OLD YOU PERVTED IDIOTS!!!!!! LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!!!!! If they try to do that again I think I'm gonna have to beat someone's @ss!!!! grrrrrrrrr.........>:P

*breathes deeply and calms down* sorry about that. just need to deal with this frustration I have with men. :P
Mary Flanders
Friday, July 7, 2000 11:13:32 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

Non- conformity poll update> one goth, two oddballs, one gifted, two who prefer not popularized pastimes, four individualists, one hellraiser, one with Asperger's Syndrome, one Daria- esque

Brooklyn> my crosswinds account should be working now.
May I send you a short- short to read? I found a _Gargoyles_ one I didn't throw out that I would like some feed- back on.

DPH>"I do not want to work on Sunday for religious reasons." Unfortunatly, the way the world is today, if you were to tell your boss this, he would not believe you.

Coyote the Bando>"the first *posting* parent- child combo in the room." *reads that unenthusiastically* You mean I'm the first (or only) to do something... again?

Daniel Johnson>"Oooh, baby pictures!" Note to self: keep big mouth shut, and your own as well ;) Dad was threatening to put them on his web page. I really have to remember to hide those.

Bon nuit mes amis
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Friday, July 7, 2000 10:09:22 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Just a quick post....

I've recently moved, and am without proper net access. This silly excuse of a system they set up here at the mall thatI am focred to use is pathetic. Oh well, at least it's free...

I should be back online by the end of the month. In he meantim I'll pop in on occasion. Till then....

Skippy the Klingon
Friday, July 7, 2000 08:49:28 PM
IP: 63.209.48.114

Ok, last week it seemed like the room was falling apart; this week has been one of the most fun and memorable I've participated in. Kudos to everyone! The lunatics are firmly in control of the asylum. :) I'm having a blast!
----
Sillycondr/Curly++:
Your identity wasn't too hard to deduce; you have exactly the same IP address as Cyborg. :) I assumed you had your reasons to remain anonymous, so I didn't say WHO you were. A lot of people around here feel more comfortable if no one knows who they are. It gives one a sense of security. If you do something you regret, you can always come back later under a different name. I personally prefer to use my real name and email address since I feel more responsible for my actions. Besides, I'm a pretty amiable guy and don't make many enemies. :)

"What cause or nature would make you suddenly dissaprove[sic] of people?" (Sorry, I'm one of those spelling freaks.)
That wasn't worded quite right (and Warpmind was quoting me). What I meant was that I don't think it's right to make a moral judgement about something that might have a biological basis. I, personally, would not change my view in any case.

"Speach is a tool." I agree completely.

Let me also take this opportunity to thank you for your contribution. This has been a great discussion.
----
Warpmind:
I'm not freaked out in the slightest. I've had this problem all my life and have never found an adequate explanation for why. Personally, I find it fascinating.

Ok, I just did a quick search on Asperger Syndrome (gotta love the Internet) and now I'm even more fascinated. The DSM IV description sounds a LOT like me, especially when I was much younger. However, there are differences. I AM pretty good at understanding body language. My verbal comprehension is excellent. And yes, I have no trouble understanding puns. Bo Derek. That was just awful! :P Anyway, you've given me something to think about. Aspergers wasn't even listed in the DSM when I was being tested.
----
Cyborg:
Oooh, baby pictures!
----
Ok, people: listen up! Christine just implied that she and I think alike. Be very afraid. >:)
----
Rodlox:
"We can always see what fun can be had by over-analysing your phrasings."
:P
Bonobos: Yep, they particularly came to my mind when I was writing that last post. Bonobos will have sex at the drop of a hat. To them it's like shaking hands. And it reinforces the social bonds within the group. And diffuses aggression. And they just seem to like it. :) Bonobo society is relatively peaceful in any case. Maybe they're on to something. ::snicker::
----
Kyryn:
Klingon Playboy Bunny? I'll resist the temptation to ask for pictures. Barely. :)
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Friday, July 7, 2000 07:24:08 PM
IP: ppp-13.rb5.exit109.com

**grumbles as he enters** Had a big long post last night, and it got lost with the CGI troubles ... **mutter, grumble, graphic DC death** Anyway ...

To make a correction to my post about available hotel space in Orlando, I have one more space for a woman, so it comes to two and two. Let me know if you're interested!

Thanks to everyone who's given me sympathy for my camp experience.

TRC: You're certainly correct, I do have a *great* lady supporting me ... **huggles Mara-ko**

XenaTrek, re: bad camp: Whew, that sounds about as bad as my experience at an abortive Scout camping trip on Goat Island in Puget Sound ... we wound up in the middle of gale-force winds which rendered firebuilding impossible, and also broke numerous tentpoles (I brought my own tent and it threw two poles ... I think we wound up tossin' it.). We left a day early because the weather report didn't bode well for the next night either. :)

Crzy: **fans self** Wow, that looks like one hot costume!

Nonconformist poll: Count me as one who bucks conventional wisdom, not always to my advantage because dammit, if it's worth doing, it ain't worth doing normal!! ;)

**reads over recent posts by Cyborg and Curly++** Hmmm ... I thought there was something afoot here ... well, I guess this makes the first *posting* parent-child combo in the room. :)

Aaron: Will do. What I can tell ya right now is approximately what it's going to cost me to do them, at full price from my store:
Headlight covers (clear): $37.79
The Mask (masking material): $10.77
Two 5oz cans of black matching spray paint: $10.00
Expressions on oncoming motorists' face when the black monster approaches: priceless. ;)

Ah well, all for me for now ... **skips out with Mara-ko hand-in-hand**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Friday, July 7, 2000 06:45:23 PM
IP: 216.28.101.6

***Kyryn wanders in***

Shadowrider>Check your email. Grazie.

Non-conformity poll> Well, count me as a gifted oddball (I don't know anyone else who's ever dressed up in a Klingon Playboy Bunny outfit!)

Curly++/Sillycondr> Actually, the easy way to roughly figure a poster's id is the ip address posted at the bottom of each post. The posting style didn't match Cyborg's but the ip did.

Zath> Hallucinating a dead kitty? Hmm. I'm like Niamhgold and start thinking that everything in the world is funny although sometimes I go into a "hyper" mode where it seems that everything in the world is slowing down and I'm speeding up. (Now if only I could use that state to get work done faster!)

J.R.> Well I have a costume similar to that (read not-so-little red riding hood). Everything is covered, so it is technically legal, but I still wouldn't want to walk around a con all day in the thing. Up on stage for a short time is one thing... I've also done several "scantily clad babe" costumes but the characters both had big chips on their shoulders so I could get away with the "back off or I'll beat you to a pulp" attitude while wearing them. One costume, Princess Kahm from Outlanders, amounted to a "battle bikini."

I understand about the stage thing. It's actually a mild case of stage fright. I go through the same thing although I have to keep telling my stomach to behave beforehand.

I also understand about your not wanting to show that type of outfit to your stepdad. That's not the type of image you want to have running around in your stepdad's mind when he thinks of you (Note: This is not to imply anything about your stepdad. I would feel the same about any close, older male relative).I wouldn't let my family, including my mom, see some of the costumes I wore for years. I didn't want to deal with the comments of how "inappropriate" some of it was( my family is somewhat prudish). IMHO, you should only wear the costume in situations where YOU feel comfortable and, more importantly, in control of the situation.

Later All!

****Kyryn pulls a large monkeywrench out of midair and heads out the door to do battle with the ISP at home.****
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Friday, July 7, 2000 06:37:47 PM
IP: 216.35.46.129

**RP RELATED**
Winterwolf, occasionally, I have had problems getting my own posts posted there. It's enough that you have read my plans.

Since Winterwolf mentioned my suprise, I will make the formal announcement. The BFTS RP is moving its headquarters from my homepage to egroups. The new location is my link or www.egroups.com/group/tgs-cr-rp. people from the other RP, when we start seriously working on an RP crossover, I would like to have the discussion and plans made there. Oh yea, I am the moderator over there.
**END RP RELATED**

**WORK RELATED/ETHICS**
I went to work today at a factory. It is really easy work. You only have to do overtime every other weekend. But my problem is that overtime includes working Saturday AND Sunday. I do not want to work on Sunday for religious reasons. If I had an option of working every Saturday instead of the above overtime setup, I would take it but I do not have that option.
**END WORK RELATED/ETHICS**

No BFTS RP today. I have to work out plans.
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Friday, July 7, 2000 06:06:02 PM
IP: max1-9.cwy.cei.net

Aaron wanders in, staggering under the weight of an enormous pile of paperwork, which he procedes to dump on DC, and then light.

My boss finally cleaned off his desk before he went on vacation. Unfortunatly, he cleaned it by dumping most of it back on me, which is why this is my first post all week.

And what a week it's been. Lots of brave confessions this week. I salute you all.

And while we're defining our sexuality, put me down as "Looking for cat-girls." ;) Sorry, too much Vision of Escaflowne this weekend, combined with those Felicia pics. Purrrrrrrr.

*****Semi-review with spoilers for Titan AE************

Titan AE was a step in the right direction for American animation. Unfortunatly, due to the $60 million loss the movie took, it was a step right off a cliff.

Honestly, if this movie weren't animated, it'd just be a ho-hum sci-fi actioner. The plot is a little formulaic, nothing groundbreaking. And let's face it, a lot of the visual imagery seemes to have been cribbed from other movies. (Although, that could be intentional. There is certainly a great dig at Star Wars about halfway through the film)

On the other hand, and bless the folks at Fox for trying, (tho' at PG they didn't try very hard) somebody stood up and took a shot at the mouse by making an animated feature with some balls.

The film's not cute. People die, some in fairly graphic ways. (One full-body disintigration and one zero-g bleed-out)

There's no singing. The characters don't feel compelled to break into a big production number every fifteen minutes. There is, however, a pretty kick @$$ soundtrack, which I'll be looking for the second I'm not so broke.

Although I've no idea what they have against humanity, the Drej do make scary enough villians, in a Borg kinda way.

Nathan Lane and Jeannene Garafolo are both entertaining, and it is especially cool to see Lane be bad for a change.

And, on one hand, it should really tax my suspension of disbelief when aliens from 1200 years in the future use 21st century Earth pop culture phrases. On the other hand, I nearly died laughing when Jon Leguzamo yelled "Who's your daddy?!? Guon's your daddy!" while blowing up all the Drej fighters.

If it's still showing in your area, go see this movie.

Aaron Bob says 3.3/5 skulls.

******End review/spoilers on to huge catch up post**************

Moment of silence for Walter Mattheau.

Tenshi> Caught the first two eps, I'm a bit underwhelmed. I think I'll look for the subbed versions instead. Tho' it does teach an important lesson. When it comes to demons, you woke her, you bought her.

Gside> DII is out?!? No way! Where can I get a copy? Oh, and San Antonio was recently called Newark with better margaritas. Should be be insulted or not?

Lady Mystic> Due to the way out network is set up here, rman40 is me.

Warpmind> The only broad axes I know are from Diablo. And at least your weapon wasn't named Diddly, eh?

Janine> Hail Columbia! You are so lucky to have RHPS where you live. Our local showing closed four years ago. BTW, you should talk to Coyote, he's our resident Eddie.

GB><<Ramming people with your longboat>> Is *that* what the Norse call it? Nudge, nudge, wink wink.

Mara> A Utena fan, eh? I think I've got a pic of Kaji and Utena together. An amusing duo to say the least. And you should've seen the Utena skit at the A-kon cosplay. I can't do the whole thing, but here's an excerpt.

Rose Bride: "Could you pull the sword out from between *your* breasts for a change? You know how much it hurts?!?"

Utena: "Shut up b!tch."

Coyote> Congrats on your mom getting the new car. And if you have any luck getting the angry gargoyle eyes headlights thing to work, let me know. I wanna set too.

Cyborg> <Why guys find lesbians attractive> Well, Freud said it was because we were all latently gay ourselves. But Freud was a coke-sniffing mama's boy, so what did he know? j/k

SJ><<inadvertently compared women to candy, in what I'm sure could be considered a sexist fashion.>> I smell sex and candy! Bwahahahahaha! (Sorry, having a JaKal moment) <Harry Potter vs. The Predator> Now there's the only one of those books I'd ever read. Too bad it'd be about as long as Bambi vs Godzilla. Hmm, Harry Potter vs Pinhead would be amusing too.

SOROW> What an emotional rollercoaster this week has been. Sorry. Hugs.

Whoever said this><<A long and lasting relationship with someone, or having sex with a different man/woman every night?>> I should have such a dilemma.

Later.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Friday, July 7, 2000 05:31:25 PM
IP: ppp-124.tnt-2.sat.smartworld.net

Warpmind de InzanE>> <research indicates there may be a neural anomaly [snip] that causes homosexuality> I dunno, I'm not up on the latest, but this seems to come up every decade and get shot right back down again. <as long as the cause and nature is unknown, let's err on the side of acceptance.> Uhm, what cause or nature would make you suddenly dissaprove of people?

Daniel Johnson>> <homosexuality is more common among animals then you probably think> I don't know about formal studies, but I have a personal observation. As a kid, I spent a few summers at a camp that was also a working ranch. I got used to seeing the bulls and stallions being rather indescriminate. If there were no willing females of their species about, some would give up, but others would try anything on four legs that was about the right size. I don't know what preferences they had, I though they were just too horny to care.

<Is speech an expression of thought or is it an action?> I think, as I do about science, that speech is a tool. Stand on a soapbox and preach, it's an action. Sit on a bench alternately speeking and listening, it's an experience.

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Friday, July 7, 2000 05:30:01 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Warpmind- Toys, Robin Williams, Joan Cusack, Robin Wright Penn and LL Cool J. GREAT show. I own it both on Video and I have the CD of the music. Some of the sweetest stuff I've ever gotten to listen to. Brings back a LOT of fond memories. Anyway, if you are able to, and you haven't, find the full movie. The one on Comedy Central is CUT TO SHREDS.

Brooklyn-- I have no clue what happened...just goes to show you how crappy Microsoft is sometimes.

not much else. I'm at work right now, so I probably need to go...though there is barely ANYTHING going on right now. Anyway, I'll catch ya'll later. '

Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Friday, July 7, 2000 05:09:34 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Hola!
How is everyone?Just stopping by.
<Emambu>
Thanks for asking as to my were abouts! Those carmels are delicious!
<Winterwolf>
Will you be on later? So how is the page coming? My pics are coming along well when ever you want to see more!
I'm in the process of taping all three seasons so when I'm done you'll have your tapes!
<Janine>
First and for most, CONGRATULATIONS on getting the part! I'm very happy for you! Second is to ask how long you'll be on later. I understand now that you have a part talking late won't happen as much! Just let me know!
<Cyborg>
Sorry to keep you waiting on episode 2! I was on vacation and I didn't have time to send it! Do you have an alternate email? If so I'll send it through that.
Keep me posted!
<Gasper>
Where did you go last night?

That's about it see you guys later for an evening post!
Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Friday, July 7, 2000 04:06:54 PM
IP: usr163.cqc.com

Christine: looking forwards to seeing what solar flares are like in the MageLore books!

Daniel Johnson: go ahead and post it anyway....we can always see what fun can be had by over-analysing your phrasings. :)

Warpmind, DJ: actually, using rams as the example some more, even a ram that {how to say this in PG terms?} 'goes for' {that good?} another ram - if you put that ram in with a fertile ewe {female ram}, then he'll go for her.

Another example, in the Primate family - the Great Apes - is a cousin of hte ultra-agressive chimpanzee: the Bonobo {aka, the Pygmy Chimp} seems to be a female-oriented society which replaces most combats with sex - male/male, male/female, female/female.

something to remember: a 50-pound Chimpanzee can rip a man's arm clean off - bonobos are the same size as chimps....and so, i think, are most gargoyles!

Rodlox
Friday, July 7, 2000 03:45:24 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

Daniel > great minds, that's all ; )

Update > have begun work on a crossover that for the time being is called "Another Shameless Plug." Gonna mix MageLore and Gargoyles again, whee! So far it is going very well, and I am having quite a bit of fun. Hope to have it done by the end of next week.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, July 7, 2000 03:09:40 PM
IP: 07-154.009.popsite.net

Zath> I have changed my mind on how this is scary. Now it is just bad! (j/k) Next thing you know, he is going to bring out the embarasing baby pictures.
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Friday, July 7, 2000 01:33:57 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Niamhgold>> <Some people don't see science as an art form, but I do.> Interesting, I see it as a tool. Any tool can be used to create art, to do evil or to do good. The tool is unalligned, who weilds the tool is not. I see Einsteins special theory of relativity as a work of art. I always read that normal relativity is simple and understandable while special relativity is not understandable at all. I try but barely groc "normal relativity." Maybe I should go down on the uniqueness poll for understanding the wrong relativity. :-)

Kitainia>> <Uh, welcome?> Er, thanks? :-)
<can't see how we've been expressing it in our recent discussion> I didn't read last weeks discussion, but so far this week I could summarize all the posts as either "I'm such-and-so" or "I support such-and-so". It is good to be supportive, but when *all* opinions agree, especially on a topic so near to our hard, I suspect not everyone is being totally honest.
<update> Since I wrote that, there have been more opinions expressed and less PC. Hmm, maybe I should post a little instead of trying to get all caught up.

<what you said happened with movies and TV> Well, I did exageratte the quantity, but I didn't mention that it was almost impossible to read any weekend newspaper or any interesting magazine, including New Scientist, without running into the same thing. Anyway, that is not the only thing wrong with the big and small screens. There are, and were then, very few programs worth watching. Even then, I always had a good book with me when I watched TV and even during the best programs I was likely to read a few pages. Since one of my main criteria for judging a program/movie is whether it makes me think something interesting about life, the universe or the resteraunt at the end of it all, then I was set up to see the programs most likely to tackle the issue. When the internet became available from home, the non-interactive screen rather quickly lost what little appeal it had.
<Hope you didn't miss Gargoyles> I saw a few episodes, I made sure I was aware of, not all programs, but the type of selections Cyborg was making when she was younger. I was impressed with Gargoyles. While she was excitedly explaining all the "in" jokes and the history of each charachter, I was watching how the program took the typical "good vs. evil" out of the absolutes and into the more difficult grey areas of morality and actually dealt with issues instead of just assigning them to good-guy or bad-guy behaviour. Then Power Rangers came on. <sigh> Not every choice was good. Fortunately, my little thinker figured out how bad that program was, I only had to suggest it should be thought about. I did watch a couple more episodes of Gargoyles just because I wanted to.

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Friday, July 7, 2000 01:23:21 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Non- conformity poll update> one goth, one oddball, one gifted, two who prefer not popularized pastimes, three individualists, one hellraiser, one with Asperger's Syndrome, one Daria-esque
If anyone does not like their characterizations here, just tell me what you would prefer.

Mecord> Thank you for the answer, and yes, Steve and I are carefull. I too like having a permament monogamous relationship (though that does not stop me from finding girls attractive as well).

Zath><good type of scary or a bad type of scary?> I'll let you decide that *blows a rasberry at Silycondr cum Curly++*

Warpmind> You know, even though my own handicaps set me apart, I never thought to call them a seperate reason for being different. It all just goes together to make one really strange person. One reason I am the goth I am is because I can't wear pants over my hardwear, my treanchcoat has to be oversized in order to fit over my arm hardwear, and I tend to wear ratty clothes because they don't stay pretty when they are being streatched in odd directions and caught by velcro and metal hinges. Of course, I also find black an easy colour to wear (every thing matches and all laundry goes together), so I might have become a goth anyway.

Winterwolf><This is only a test> ...Testing 1, 2, 5.
That's '3' sir.
3?
3.
Of cours, a- hem. Testing 1, 2, 3.
Sorry, just couldn't resist. ;)
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Friday, July 7, 2000 01:09:14 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

*Warpmind enters, twirling a bo, which slips through his fingers and spins through the air, elegantly landing, standing leaned up against the corner.*
Humh, I never cease to impress, amaze and dumbfound myself... if someone was watching, they might think that was an intentional action...

Rodlox/Daniel Johnson: Dudes, I remembered incorrectly. I managed to dig up the article again, and for some obscure, bizarre reason, I had remembered the exact reverse of what it said. I think whoever has my sanity jar should check the lid. But, here's some food for thought: research indicates there may be a neural anomaly (some poor sot used the word "dysfunction" about it - he was sent home in a bucket) that causes homosexuality; a potentially inheritable trait. Now, this suggests a quite good reason why, then, it is likely homosexuality is less common among animals than among humans: among humans, you have the "hidden" homosexuals, who deny their own inclinations, marry and have children. In nature, homosexual animals are, well, less likely to pass on their genes, for rather obvious reasons. To finish this bit off, I'll just say I agree with Daniel: as long as the cause and nature is unknown, let's err on the side of acceptance. :)

Daniel Johnson: Okay, this might freak you out a bit, but what you described there about yourself and your past... yeah, while I'm no expert on the subject, beyond my firsthand knowledge, I'd say there's a great chance you're an Asperger. While you function well enough to not worry about it, having the actual diagnosis may (depending on local/national legislation on the matter) give you the right to some forms of social benefits. What you mentioned about storing sensory information and having problems with verbal expressions is, as far as I understand it, two of the most common denominators among Aspergers. I am in a rare part of the spectrum - I am among the relatively few Aspergers with sufficient lingual skill to make and understand puns. In fact, there is only one thing I need to know from you to make me certain you've got Asperger: do you easily interpret body language, or are you slow at taking hints in the form of looks and slight-of-hand suggestions?

Well, that's it for now.
*Warpmind fetches his bo, shows it around the CR, revealing the name "Derek" on it, and heads out to avoid the clouting that is sure to come when people get the pun.*

Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, July 7, 2000 01:09:09 PM
IP: mp-217-237-1.daxnet.no

ALL>> Ok, a few people said it was obvious who I was. I guess my little masquerade wasn't too effective... or was it? Were you right? This will be my last post as Silly Silicon Dr., my next, hopefully I'll get caught up and post again today, will be with my normal handle, Curly++. So, was it that obvious?

Why? Two reasons: I was curious how Cyborg would react to my posts if she didn't know it was me posting; I'm having increasing difficulty getting the thoughts I'm thinking to come out of my fingers at the keyboard, I'm embarrassed by the errors I make these days. The first reason, I think Cyborg was suspicious, if not downright sure. The second reason, after following this board for a couple of days I realize you folk here deserve more respect than that. You are a really great group, but I should have known that because Cyborg likes you.
Sillycondr - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Friday, July 7, 2000 12:41:16 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Niamhgold:
Geminis are scatterbrained nutballs? That explains a great deal about myself then. :) Solitude, check. Pessimist, check. Blind as a bat...er...near-sighted, check. Are all Geminis like this? BTW, I assume you're exaggerating for humorous effect with the 20/2400 bit. 20/200 is the lowest the scale goes; it's considered legally blind. My left eye is 20/200. Even my right eye, without glasses, can only read something about 6 inches away.
----
Warpmind:
Rodlox is correct; homosexuality is more common among animals then you probably think. Unfortunately, I don't think that there have been too many studies done on this. Such behavior is most obvious among primates, I believe. The interesting thing about animal homosexuality is how do we explain it. Do animals make "life-style choices" or is there something hard wired into their brains? Or a combination? Can something that occurs in the "natural" world be considered "unnatural"? I don't know, but I think it's worth considering before making a judgement. As long as the cause and nature of homosexuality is unknown, I think it's best to err on the side of acceptance. At least that's how I view homosexuality.

Bigot debate: I think the problem is how different people define "bigot." Is a bigot defined by thought or action? Everyone has the right to think whatever they want. Trying to control people's thoughts is the height of PC. Everyone does NOT have the right to act on those thoughts if it means attacking someone else. The problem is with speech. Is speech an expression of thought or is it an action? It can be both. However, as far as a purely verbal environment like this comment room is concerned, I think it's best to let everyone speak their mind. Of course, everyone should also be allowed to debate something they don't agree with. ;)

Autism: I'm not at all insulted. In fact, it's interesting that you bring it up since I HAVE thought about it before. I have had extensive psychological testing as a child, but no one ever said anything about autism. I did have a psychologist once say that I was schizophrenic. :) Of course, this wasn't until after my parents stopped taking me to him because they didn't like his approach. :P The only disorder that I know I was diagnosed with is ADD and I've mostly overcome that. I have other learning difficulties that are harder to describe. The way I store and process sensory information is...different. It can make it difficult for me to express myself verbally. Ten years ago I wouldn't have been able to write like I am now. It took a long time to overcome, and sometimes it still strikes. I do sometimes have bouts of mild depression, but not serious enough to have much affect on my life. Occasionally I experience something could be described as hypomania, again very mild, so I've wondered about Bipolar II. In any case, I function pretty well, so I don't worry about it. Wow, that was awfully long!
----
Janine:
Feel free to rant anytime. We don't mind.
----
Mecord:
Good luck with your RL problems, and I'm glad you felt you could explain your opinion.
----
Gside:
Write Only Memory? WOM? Isn't that what Elmer Fudd would call a CD-ROM? (:

Zip Disk? 400 megs? Is it my turn to correct you? ;)
----
Rodlox:
I had something to say about your hermaphrodite question, but then the room wasn't working and when I checked this morning, Christine had already said what I wanted to say. She's always doing that to me! :P It's a plot! Now I'm going to develop a complex! :)
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Friday, July 7, 2000 12:34:44 PM
IP: ppp-26.rb5.exit109.com

<img src="http://www.veoweb.com/members/brooklyn/images/thersites2.jpg" align=left>This is a test post. I want to see what this will look like. It probably won't work but that never stopped me before. I just want to see if I can include html elements in my post. I apologize in advance to anyone that sees this as annoying or childish. Real post later.

This was only a test!
Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Friday, July 7, 2000 11:36:07 AM
IP: 206.15.122.13

** Niamhgold enters **

Hola, guys! Told ya'll I'd be back! :)

Non-conformity poll: Well, in RL I'm a scatterbrain nutball (Gemini trait), and so I tend to try and do *way* too many things at once. I'm not adept at any particular thing, but I've always been picked on for loving solitude and being a Daria-esque pessimist--as well as being so near-sighted that I can't see anything once it moves two feet away (seriously, folks, my vision in either eye is around 20/2400). TG for contact lenses! :)

Gside: <Spell slingers and engineers> Hmm, never thought of the similarities before...but I see them now. However, I think that whatever talent/skill anyone has is their personal form of magic. Some people don't see science as an art form, but I do. ;}

Winterwolf: Sent you an updated email this manana! Ah, Winterwolf having cold aura powers...now _that_ is definitely more along the lines I was thinking :) Freeze 'em, Winterwolf, freeze 'em good! I'll help you defrost them later! :) Thanks for all your kind words about my fanfic, they are *so* much appreciated! ** Huggles ** Also, thanks for the room-wipe info, and don't forget to have fun at G2K! (Will be eagerly awaiting your next email, although there's no rush!)

Shadowrider: Got Nicola's poem in email today :) If the translated version was _that_ good, then the Italian version must kick butt! It was awesome; I don't particularly care the political implications of the piece, I just loved the word arrangement and the way he intersects dialogue with heart-hitting words. It reminds me of an Italian-subbed movie I once watched, called "El Postina" (The postman, I think?) The ending was so sad!
As for where my mother's grandparents were from: Well, I believe they were from the Naples region, although I also think there's some Venice in there somewhere. My godmother is always saying how I have that "Roman profile." Unfortunately, I didn't get any of that beautiful dark hair,
dark skin, or dark eyes (derned Scottish blood!) Although I don't burn, either :)

Kit: Thank you for your words on the well-being of the abandoned children. :)

Zath: <Hallucinating a dead kitten> Well, I don't tend to have hallucinations when I'm really tired--I go into giggling fits. A paper falls on the floor, I laugh. Somebody sneezes, I'm ROTFL. That big, giant marshmallow creature on my windowsill blinks its eight eyes when I'm working, and I'll be chuckling all night. <;p

Mecord: I hope you can solve whatever problems you may in RL; we'll surely be awaiting your return! Additionally, I won't bash you for your position on sexuality, since you have the same viewpoint as my mother (a devout Catholic).

Adios, muchachos!
Niamhgold - [niamhgold@hotmail.com]
Friday, July 7, 2000 10:24:30 AM
IP: lac-flex85.ncia.net

Warpmind: "But seriously, I seem to
recall reading somewhere that outside of the human race, homosexuality is rare."

- actually, it's surprisingly common. a few examples are rams, whiptail lizards in the american southwest - they're all female....by and large it's otherwise restricted to mammals.

question: if a fish species changes from female to male after it mates, and then mates again, does that qualify it as homosexual?

Rodlox
Friday, July 7, 2000 07:39:23 AM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

DERN FS's LOT BOYS!

I forgot to add one other voter to the list!

Here's a repeat (and update) just for clarity:

Recieved votes from:

- Susan Foster
- Shadowrider
- Winterwolf
- Doug & Kit
- Revel
- Starsinger
- Daniel Johnson
- Peter Bijl
- Jenna
- Jannie
- Warpmind de InzanE
- Sigma28 - email username (minus domain name)
- Green Baron
- Ordell
- Brooklyn (Brooklyn Future Tense)
- Gside
- Fire Storm
- rman40 - email username (minus domain name)
- Spike (WD Hayden)
- Wilek Nereus
- Cyborg (SD Curtin)
- Graymonk
- Fluer

Recieved empty email from (Please vote via email.):

- Robby
- Emambu

Refer to my previous post for other TGS CR Images Information.

Now THIS is my last post. :)
Lady Mystic - [<-- VOTE PAGE!!!!]
Senior Administrator of TGS CR Info
Friday, July 7, 2000 07:03:09 AM
IP: 1cust1.tnt6.det3.da.uu.net

*Warpmind enters, spontaneously bringing Gside in on an astounding performance of "Eric the half-a-bee".*
Whee, I think my sanity is trying for me... will whoever has that particular jar please check the lid? ;)

Wilek: Ever seen the movie "Toys" with Robin Williams? I saw it last night... and it gave me some nifty ideas for the Mansion. ];)

The "Nobody has the right to be a bigot" debate: I disagree with that. Anyone has the right to be a bigot. However, at the very least, they could have the decency as to not spread the virus...

Daniel Johnson: You say you've got a high IQ and learning problems? I'm going out on a limb here, but have you ever been tested for autistic traits? You see, I have had a lot of the same: high-level IQ, and a HUGE learning problem, and I've been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome (the very upper end of the Autistic spectrum). I'm not saying you have it, nor am I trying to insult you; I'm just thinking out loud, so to speak.

Rodlox: The hermaphroditic species hust have a quite f*cked-up sexual life, after human standards. ;) But seriously, I seem to recall reading somewhere that outside of the human race, homosexuality is rare. Maybe when we encounter an intelligent species (note the lack of the word "other", guys), we might find it thriving elsewhere...

Cyborg: Add one with Asperger's Syndrome to that non-conformity poll... I'l never be normal, nor do I want to.

Shadowrider: I haven't reviewed the data records, no... Kruger has apparently "misplaced" them. Hah, probbly in his nightstand drawer, I'll wager. Oh, well, I'll leave him to his simple fun. ;)

Winterwolf: Hmmm... you may be right... the 5-foot Pikachu is the one most resembling a beanbag chair... :| And no, I don't think you're hallucinating. :(

Zath: Well, I guess that scene might have ended thusly (I've never actually *seen* that scene, myself - the AOD versions I've seen had a few minutes cut out, that scene included), but I was thinking of how he was stomping them, not how they got even...

Well, that's it for now, gang. See y'all later.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, July 7, 2000 06:19:53 AM
IP: mp-217-214-25.daxnet.no

This will be my last post until FS, my family, and I get back from vacation.

Just to inform/remind all of you...

*** TGS CR IMAGES ANNOUNCEMENT ***

Recieved votes from:

- Susan Foster
- Shadowrider
- Winterwolf
- Doug & Kit
- Revel
- Starsinger
- Daniel Johnson
- Peter Bijl
- Jenna
- Jannie
- Warpmind de InzanE
- Sigma28 - email username (minus domain name)
- Green Baron
- Ordell
- Brooklyn (Brooklyn Future Tense)
- Gside
- Fire Storm
- rman40 - email username (minus domain name)
- Spike (WD Hayden)
- Wilek Nereus
- Cyborg (SD Curtin)
- Fluer

Recieved empty email from (Please vote via email.):

- Robby
- Emambu

Again, if you haven't voted already, please do so.

*** IMPORTANT ***

The voting ends Sunday July 16th at midnight (CR time). We will not accept any votes after midnight. A tally will be posted along with a list of those who voted. I will also post a list of the cut images. I will accept emails for as yet an undetermined length of time concerning appeals on cut images. After which we will not accept any more appeals, requests and votes until the next CR pics update.

This information is also posted on the voting page.

*** /IMPORTANT ***

*** /TGS CR IMAGES ANNOUNCEMENT ***

Winterwolf = Sent you an email to what I think is your work address. I hope you recieve it. If not, please wait patiently until FS and I return.

I'll leave the rest for after I return.

See ya in about a week. :)
Lady Mystic - [lady-mystic@usa.net]
Senior Admin. of TGS CR Info
Friday, July 7, 2000 05:52:03 AM
IP: 1cust56.tnt2.det3.da.uu.net

Hey all!

LM and I are going on vacation today for a week, but we will still continue to take CR votes.

If we can, we will check our e-mails, but don't count on it.

Could someone please remind newbies/new-boots/Posters-formerly-known-as-lurkers/etc about the CR pic voting page?
(http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/new/index.html)
AOL USERS! FOR OBERON'S SAKE, READ THE F-FAQ! Some of you have, but others...

Emambu: I got your message, but not your vote. Please read and follow the FAQ
(http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/new/faq.html)

Gside: Will there be a way I could get the MP3's you post while I am gone?

I have typed alot of a longer post, but will post it when I get back. I want to be able to respond to responses! :)

All other loose ends: I'll take care of it later.

See ya all in a week!
Fire Storm - [<--- Once again, the CR voting page.]
Friday, July 7, 2000 04:50:56 AM
IP: 1cust93.tnt5.det3.da.uu.net

Winterwolf> <<Still try to keep the hallucinations down to a minimum or maybe that was something that only happened to me.>> It's been my experience that the hallucinations start after about 30+ hours without sleep (but occasionally sooner). It's strange but they always start with exactly the same thing, visions of a cat I had that died back when I was in 7th or 8th grade. I'll glimpse it out of the corner of my eye, just walking around randomly. This'll happen a couple of times and then my brain moves on to spewing out more interesting things, but it always starts with that one cat.

Jessie Feff> <<She sat quietly and watched Gargoyles with me last night, though, so I know she's got good taste. :) >> So that's why I can't get Kitty to hold still! It's because I don't have any Gargoyles tapes to show her!

Gside> <<But it did get you to come back for a visit, right?>> Actually, my mom mailed it to me or something like that, but I came back for the summer, so it doesn't really matter. <<CDs are constantly being burned (not always in drives: seven seconds reading surface up in a microwave will give you a great show, and leave you with some great art>> *LOL* but does the "art" include a broken microwave, or merely a messed up cd?

Warpmind> <<Actually, the scene would be more along the lines of the windmill scene in Army of Darkness... "London Bridge is coming down, coming down, coming doooowwwwwnnnn...">> Didn't that scene end with Ash getting a nail in his foot, falling on the floor, and getting tied down by all the little versions of humself like in Gulliver's Travels?

Cyborg> <<You want to know something scary? My Dad has decided to read this room>> Is that a good type of scary or a bad type of scary?

David G.> <<Demona / Macbeth - They both have lots of spare time. If nothing else, they could use spoons to dig the entire place away to nothing, but they'd probably get bored.>> *LOL* That's just a really funny mental image...

jacKal> <<I'm talkin about feeling a life grow inside me>> If you want a *human* life, that could be very difficult to arrange, but if you're willing to settle for any old life growing inside you there's always the option of a tapeworm, trichinosis, or some other parasite ; ) (like these weird little worms that live inside your lymph-nodes and poke their heads out the back of your hand at night so they can breathe, with them not only do you get a life growing inside of you but you get freaky sores that look like the stigmata wounds)

Okay, that seems to be all for the moment. Bye for now.
Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Friday, July 7, 2000 03:53:00 AM
IP: ns1-14.viptx.net

***CAUTION: RANT AHEAD***

I simply cannot believe my mother. I have two of ~my~ costumes complete. No big deal. Well one of my costumes consists of a corset, fishnet hose, a garder belt, and underwear. Also no big deal, for me any way. I had one of my friends over today and she ~told~ me to model for him because I was going to have to go in front of and audience any way. I cannot believe her. She also wanted my step-father to see my costume. That is just wrong! My friend is one of my body-guards so its not that big of a deal in that perspective, I was going to show him before Saturday any way, but she ~told~ me to model it. Being onstage is different, I block out the audience therefore I can wear stuff like that. Also onstage it is called 'costuming' not 'okay I'm going to flaunt myself in front of people I would never want to see me in my underwear'. My step-dad is one I would never want to see me in my underwear. I don't think any of this is making any sense. I'm just typing my thoughts as they come. I'm sorry to bother you with all of this.

***END RANT***

Winterwolf> I'm sorry I missed you tonight. You logged off just before I logged on.

Well its off to bathe then off to bed. See ya'll later.
J. R. - [Purple_Pixy@hotmail.com]
Friday, July 7, 2000 03:37:03 AM
IP: phx-213.treknet.net

Cyborg>> You want to know the why of it? I mentioned upbringing. In a religious community such as mine where abstinence from any form of sexual activity until after marriage is taught, it is hard not to be influenced one way or the other. Admittedly many grow tired of such pressures and go the opposite way. Most come to a point where they question everything they are taught and have to decide for themselves or find out the hard way. There are many reasons to remain abstinent, AIDS and other STDs for instance, but I admit that there are many arguments for safety precautions. The sad thing to me is that these precautions are now taught at the elementary level. Putting such ideas into the heads of little children may have many repercussions on their later life, but in many cases this action is seen as necessary and repercussions acceptable. To me it seems to have turned into a big mess of argument and endless debate. I could go into a long sermon about religious ramifications of instant gratification, the carnal nature of man, and a few other good topics that relate to the subject but like I said, I grew up with those. They are indoctrinated into my head like so much brainwashing. Don't get me wrong, I have studied them and found them to be good and true, but that just may make people less likely to listen. Here's another thought. I see something romantic and lasting about waiting for marriage and staying within that marriage. When I get married I want it to be for life, and beyond. I have seen firsthand the effect on a marriage of one or the other sneaking off to carouse for alternative or temporary partners. As for a sexual life before marriage, what influence will it have over a person after they get married? Maybe none. Or maybe a lot, I dont know. It's not something I've studied that much. I suspect that it can have a great impact on a relationship. Now I'm not singling out any one practice as evil here, rather I'm endorsing what I see as an ideal. I should also say that I myself am not as innocent as this may make me sound. With an imagination like mine, there is little my mind has not explored at one time for another. But when it comes to explorative thoughts of a sexual nature I usually end up in a state of revulsion and even feeling physically ill. Bad part is, once something enters the mind it is subject to recall at any given time. This is why I tend to avoid such debates, but I did voice my opinion and with it you deserve to know a why. Like I said before though, just because it has such a negative affect on me, I don't shun my friends if they make different decisions. I respect my friends and their decisions. But I wouldn't be a good friend if I didn't let them know when I think they may be making the wrong decision. Which is why I spoke up in the first place. What people do is generally not my business, but please, be careful.

On a sadder note. I will be scarce in the next few weeks. RL is making its presence known and I have to put more concentration into it. There's also a few other issues I need to put to rest in the meantime. Realize that my absence has nothing to do with any of you or this room. It's just that my attention is needed elsewhere until a resolution can be determined.

Kit and Doug>> $I'm temporarily turning over complete control of my RP character Lloky to you for the time being. I'm confident you'll do fine with her character. Just remember her history. The past often shapes the future.$

General Rper's notice>> $should any of you feel the need to bring in my characters go ahead. The only restrictions are that none of them should battle the ten for the time being.$

*****RP*****
At the Guild base.
Senthet entered the construction area and called Mecord over.
"How did it go?" she asked.
"I don't think Thailog knew anything, but I can guarantee he's looking into it as we speak."
"But how do we get the information from him?"
"We ask someone close to him."

On the Avatar.
Lithanne lifted her head weekly. The sounds of battle that had been resounding through the floor panels had stopped. Her brother stood over her, and two massive dragon heads peered from over his shoulders.
"How do you feel sis?"
"Like I've been ambushed by three dozen ogres."
"At least you killed all the ogres."
Mery, the dragon, lowered her head, "We must leave, the others have gone ahead."
Thicarrn nodded, "You up for a ride, sis?"
"Sure. I need to speak with Mec about a bonus."
The Elf groaned as she rose to her feet with Thicarrn's aid. Kyrel extended her wing with the tip to the ground and waited patiently as the elves walked its length to her back. The dragons began to chant in their language. As one they swept their wings downward and took to the air. Then they began to shrink and glow brightly. Their forms continued to collapse until they were nothing more than two particles of light. They then sped to earth.

Near the battle ground with Four.
The man in the crimson tunic stroked an enormous blue gem and whispered his plans of revenge. The blue mastergem glowed with an inner light in response.
*****End RP*****

Until next time.
Mecord
Friday, July 7, 2000 03:25:05 AM
IP: pool-207-205-151-34.dlls.grid.net

I noticed I made a moronic error in my last post. Write Only Memory is a joke invented by engineers from Signetics when they noticed no one was checking their technical specs. I must have been thinking about not being able to write, so I wrote write instesad. Or maybe I'm just trying to cover my tracks.

Kitainia> <<as for the bodies from Pompeii, they sure looked ash-covered to me>>: I'm willing to bet that they were actually molds of the air pockets left by the bodies. Which is why an ash covered Payne would tour so much.

Kyryn> <<Yes, the comments were very helpful>>: Glad to hear I was somewhere approaching accurate. May your internet problems be solved soon, but feel free to update at your leisure.

Davvid G> <<my keyboard doesn't have an infinity key>>: It's not in standard ASCII (assuming times new roman follows standard), but for other purposes, it's in symbol as Alt-0165.

Daniel Johnson> Thank you for providing the technical specifics for CD- ROM/R/RW in my absence.

Kitainia> <<guess I should apologize to Gside>>: It's not a problem in the least. I am used to an environment where CDs are constantly being burned (not always in drives: seven seconds reading surface up in a microwave will give you a great show, and leave you with some great art).
<<maybe next time I'll have him use a data crystal or a ZIP disk or something?>>: Go with the crystal. I think 400 megs would be rather cramped.

SOROW> May you have more days like Tuesday, and fewer like yesterday.

Winterwolf> <<Look out for my personal level 20 scatterbrain>>: I hate you. I only have one character and she's now 15. I blame summer courses (with the hour commute). Question for you though: Have you been specializing in on element? The only skill I have with multiple points is warmth. (If only I could restart act one whenever I wanted...)

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, July 7, 2000 02:02:34 AM
IP: proxy1-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

**A frozen orb enters the room and releases Winterwolf into the CR.**

Hi! I was feeling sleepy when I was ready to post last night and I was swamped at work so I had to hold off my CR post until now. Am I going to go into CR withdrawal when I go on vacation later this year? :p

DPH> I'm sorry I haven't posted any messages in the BFTS eGroup. I wrote a really long post yesterday and something went terribly wrong and it was never posted. After that I didn't feel like trying again. **sigh**

Warpmind> <Bean bag chair Pikachu> Nah! That would be the 5 foot plush one for sure ;) I'm just making it up now or maybe hallucinating. I can't really tell right now.

Lady Mystic> <problems with Thersites pic> As soon as I read that earlier today I send an email from my work account with the Thersites attachments. I wanted to be extremely thorough so I sent all 4 copies that I worked on. Actually you could just read the email. If you reply to that email I'll should get your reply asap. :) If you don't get this one I'm just going to cry. :(

Ed> Welcome back! The more the merrier! :)

Silycondr> Welcome!

Gasper> I'm glad to see you back. :)

Violent thoughts> I think what really matters how you react to the violent thoughts. I you act violently on these thoughts then yes. If you are disturbed by your own violent thoughts then I say no. If you are just thinking violent thoughts to escape from reality then you are probably just releasing some of the frustrations and tension that could cause you to become physically violent. So I think the real question is why are you having these violent thoughts and what effect they have on you.

Niamhgold> Really? I thought it fit perfectly. You frequently use the weird sisters and their magic in the CR. ;) <Winterwolf> I take back what I said there. I see him more as a paladin with cold aura powers. :) <room wipe> It is done manually so in theory it can happen anytime. Normally it is sometime Sunday night. <fanfic> On a happy and sad note I've finished reading you latest fanfic. This means I've read all your stories. I'm happy I read them and recommend them to everyone. I'm sad because now I don't have any more of your stories to read at the moment. So I need to figure what to read next. <email> I'll be sending email sometime tomorrow for a quick review of the most recent fanfic. ^_^

Plug: Read Niamhgold's fanfic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is worth every minute you spend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Emambu> Notes mental picture. Okay hope to see you there! :)

Gside> <sorceress> I bet my lovely and powerful Niamhgold can take you on in Battle.Net :) Look out for my personal level 20 scatterbrain. I won't even know what I'm doing! Seriously, I just felt like being fun fun silly willy right now! (That's serious? Actually, yes it is.) :p

Shadowrider> So if you don't go by September you are discharged from having to serve? Hmm... I was about to mention that I hadn't seen you post in a while but I haven't been much better lately myself. ^_^

Brooklyn> Hi! I've been looking for you. I have an email I'll send you later for your approval then I'll post part 2 to the CR. Maybe I'll catch you online later.

SOROW> That is terrible! **hugz** I'm going to send you a special email. I hope you have fun camping!

******BFTS - RP******

After breakfast Winterwolf gathers his belongings to go and find SOS.

Jason wanting to continue working on his mental abilities so decides to stay behind.

DPH gives Winterwolf his cell phone and a magical device to locate SOS.

Winterwolf leaves the house and rides off on his motorcycle. He notes that he is running low on feul.

******BFTS - RP******

Okay. I should get some sleep now. Good night to my CR friends! BTW - That's all of you. ^_^

**Winterwolf is sucked into the frozen orb which darts out of the room.**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Friday, July 7, 2000 12:26:53 AM
IP: nas-5-43.nyc.navipath.net

Oh great, *NOW* it works. **mutter, grumble**
Coyote the Bando
Thursday, July 6, 2000 11:44:56 PM
IP: 216.28.101.145

This has been a really stressful week. Tuesday was one of the best nights of my life while today was one of the worst. I lost my promotion at work because all the new staff quit. So I don't feel like writing much, but I just wanted to say that I'll be gone for a couple days on a camping trip with some school people (not really friends) so I'll see ya on Sunday. Lots of love and don't do anything that I wouldn't!
SOROW
Thursday, July 6, 2000 11:44:41 PM
IP: dll2a030-0781.splitrock.net

Rodlox > It would be my guess that an hermaphroditic species wouldn't have any need to differentiate into homo, hereo, or bi, since they'd all be the same. Unless they were getting involved with members of another species. In which case, they probably would think that being with either sex was perfectly natural depending on mood and personal inclination. Such would be my guess, anyway.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, July 6, 2000 11:40:03 PM
IP: 07-155.009.popsite.net

Hello
Quick post
To everyone who was wondering Brooklyn is back from vacation in Chicago! I'm writing episode three now and I'll be on for a while if anyone wants to talk!
The webpage is up. Not much to see as Winterwolf has said but check back soon!

Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Thursday, July 6, 2000 06:02:30 PM
IP: usr130.cqc.com

Hello here! A bit busy recently, no time to post.

Warpmind:> I guess you have now reviewed the TIE data records...did you learn something new? ;) <<not a speck of dust anywhere.>> Well, I told you I was going to return it washed...;)

Green Baron:> World Gay Pride: Hm, I somewhat agree with you about Imma Battaglia...her attitude sometimes I find a bit irritating. I, for myself, have no problem for homosexuals parading in Rome (the fact that disturbs me is that there is need of a parade...), as long as they don't cause problems. About the Vatican's position...well, it was more or less what I expected...
Why would Paris or London be better places? Anyway, in both of them there had already been a World Gay Pride week, while in Rome still don't.

Kitainia:> Be sure, Nicola is a very good poet (and singer...he used to be lead vcalist in a rock band we had in HS, now he sings in the same chorus I sing in as first tenor...), and the fact he is not published is still something that makes me feel upset. Anyway, he thanks you very much for the compliments.

Niamhgold:> Got your mail, now check yours...(I seem to recall someone mentioning a badminton match...oh, BTW, something I forgot in my mail...of which zone exactly were your mother's grandparents from?
About the military...I don't know. Voices say my contingent is probable to leave in September...but they're unconfirmed. Anyway, they can delay my leaving at maximum for three months, then they are forced for law to make me leave or give me the discharge. So, I stay waiting...

Non-comformity:> Put me in. Not for a particular reason...simply, I can't remember in my life I've ever done anything to conform myself to any kind of group. Everything I decided to do, I did because I believed it was necessary, or because I liked it. Although sometimes I acted like the others around me, it was casually...or, better, it was mot me acting like others, but the others acting like me...;)
And there is one thing that makes me different from others for sure...I have never believed, even for the slightest moment, to be totally right about anything. Often partially right, sometimes almost totally right...but, totally, never.

Kyryn:> Check your email.

Madame Destine:> It was time! Gonna read as possible!

Enough now! See you all!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milano, Italy
Thursday, July 6, 2000 05:44:51 PM
IP: h213-18-103.mi2.albacom.net

**rushes in**

Kathy brought it up ... hotel space for the Gathering is at a premium. And I happen to have three spaces available in two rooms remaining (two for men and one for a woman, best of my knowledge). Anyone who needs a room, let me know, we'll be happy to have ya if you're willing to pitch in for the room costs. Anyone? Anyone? (Bueller ...)
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Thursday, July 6, 2000 05:40:29 PM
IP: 216.28.101.145

** BEGIN SHAMELESS ADULT FIC PLUG **

Now appearing in a gargoyles fanfic archive near you... the latest story from Madame Destine.

Demona stands at a crossroads. Which path will she choose: personal happiness or her place in the clan? And will Lexington see what's been in front of him all along?

Presenting "Where Fools Rush In." Happy reading. :)

** END SHAMELESS ADULT FIC PLUG **

And please remember everybody... send comments to my e-mail or the adult comment room. I post here because a lot of poeple don't check that room regularly... but I don't want to start another riot in here. :)
Madame Destine - [m_destine@hotmail.com]
Thursday, July 6, 2000 04:35:56 PM
IP: ac8a8f02.ipt.aol.com

Non conformity poll-----One person who likes to raise hell when he sees unfairness and injustice.
Gasper
Thursday, July 6, 2000 04:05:17 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Daniel: Okay, guess I should apologize to Gside. (Sorry, Gside.) Again, I did not know that about technology, I don't know much about computer hardware and didn't bother to seek out more thinking what I knew was enough. :( That's sometimes the way things go. Sorry about it, I'll try to not make it happen that way again (maybe next time I'll have him use a data crystal or a ZIP disk or something?). Thanks also for the explanation of how CD-ROMs and so on work.

Cyborg: You're welcome. I don't really think I can explain why Doug and I are considered non-conformist, we just are. We don't have any specific attitudes that make us this way, we just act like individuals instead of members of some group, thus not conforming with anyone's demands. :) Good enough explanation?
Kitainia
Thursday, July 6, 2000 03:59:49 PM
IP: pool-207-205-146-237.dlls.grid.net

Non- conformity poll update> one goth, one oddball, one gifted, two who prefer not popularized pastimes

Mecord (and Peter)><Rarely do we have prolonged debates about it because there is not much we can do to change the mind of the other.> I don't care about changing anyone's mind here, I just want to know why you feel that way (call it morbid curiosity). You say it is mostly you upbringing, but what specifically in it. What else besides your upbringing formed that opinion?

Silycondr><the moment you decide that what other people should be allowed to think, _you_ are a bigot.> I agree.
<every movie and program was either about gay issues or included> It did get to be anoying, even though I would not go so far as say every one- just the mainstream ones. Recipie for a program/movie: Take one part topic of the day, one part of what has worked before, and one part flavor of the season, and combine by industry standard formula. The worst part of that is that the lifestyles they showed were rarely accurate, and besides, morality plays have always gotten on my nerves.
<Even Cyborg was fast to point out that this was an effort to create a debate rather than actually express an opinion.> I gather you missed my posts last week were I mentioned I'm bi. *wry smile* I wanted to be clear that I was niether going to flame or shoot down anyone who would express that opinion. I'm a pussycat with short life- span.

Daniel Johnson><You seemed to indicate that I did as well.> Sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I was trying to compare your response to Greg's.

Kitainia>Thanks for the well wishes, and IMO you are right about my Father, he is a great man (a better friend than father though that's not really a bad thing). I'll wait to add your number to the poll until you explain why (so I know what to call your kind of non- conformity).

*Cyborg looks to see if her Father is still reading the room*
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Thursday, July 6, 2000 03:46:06 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

a quesiton that's been bugging me ever since the start of this Discussion:
can a member of a hermaphroditic species {each individual is both male & female} be bi, or is that {bi} only for members of a species in which an individual is either male or female?

...speaking of which, what about those fish that start life female, then become male when they hit Middle-Aged?

just wondering.

Rodlox
Thursday, July 6, 2000 03:14:05 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

Kitainia:
Our Learned Friend, Gside, can't help it; he is an engineer after all, and therefore can't stand imprecise terminology. ;) CD-ROMs (Compact Disc Read Only Memory) aren't "burnt" by a recorder. They are aluminum discs which are "pressed" at the factory and can't be altered afterward. CD-R (Compact Disc Recordable) and CD-RW (Compact Disc ReWritable) are the discs that you can "burn" at home. They consist of a metallic layer and one or more dye layers. The recording laser doesn't actually burn holes in the metal; it changes the light transmission characteristics of the dye. Anyway, that's probably more than you ever wanted to know about CD technology.
----
DPH:
"People assume that if you are 'gifted' in one area, you're equally 'gifted' in other areas."
Exactly.
----
Kyryn:
"The second answer is correct."
I know. I just wish people would spend more effort trying to overcome "disabilities" than trying to redefine them as "differences." I'm blind in one eye and therefore have no depth perception. That is a disability. A disability that I will always have to compensate for. Calling it something else isn't going to make my life easier. Sorry, I seem to be rambling again. :P
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Thursday, July 6, 2000 02:09:16 PM
IP: ppp-05.rb5.exit109.com

DPH> Sorry about that. I was tired and not paying attention.

Now, as to your question, Yes, there are lots of power scales. I'm going to assume you don't play Roleplaying Games. If you did, you could one of those. For your purposes, the old Marvel Superheros system would probably be best. Abilities are ranked from Feeble (2) up to Beyond (Infinity - my keyboard doesn't have an infinity key). Typical (6) is about normal for a human. Each step on the scale is an order of magnitude (more or less). Conversions are really easy. If you know that Galactus can destroy a planet, you can look up his stats and find out that he has some powers in the range of Class 5000 (5000). Then you'd know that you need something in the range of C5000 to destroy a planet all at once. (As I pointed out before, someone fairly weak could destroy a whole planet if he had a long, long time, and nobody was trying to stop him.)

Give me a day or so, and I'll post the entire scale, along with some examples of who would have abilities at that rank.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Thursday, July 6, 2000 11:57:49 AM
IP: 198.215.20.3

***Kyryn backs in through the door, mutters a spell and tosses a fireball out the door. A muffled whumph is heard and the smell of roasted bug fills the CR. She hurriedly sets up a couple of giant fans to remove the smell.***

Sorry about that. I've been fighting a battle with the outside roaches trying to come in lately. *grin* I've been winning.

Gside> Yes, the comments were very helpful. I just haven't had time to implement them yet. (Read access time at home between the ISP acting up and my husband spending time on the phone with family matters.)

DPH> It is hard to define power levels when you are crossing different universes with different power definitions.

Daniel Johnson> <Does changing the name change the nature of the problem? Or is it intended to make me feel better about myself? > Unfortunately, the second answer is correct. No matter how we label a problem, its essential nature remains the same. I could call the black plague the flower plague and it would still kill people in an ugly way and at the same rate. And the sad truth of the matter is that once people become used to the new name the same stigma attaches to it that the old one had.

TRC> Good to see you back again!

Silycondr> Welcome to the room.

Zath> Good to see you back as well!

Later All!

****Kyryn cautiously peers out the door then takes off, looking for more giant bugs.****

Kyryn
Denton, TX
Thursday, July 6, 2000 11:30:34 AM
IP: 216.35.46.129

**POWER LEVEL/RP RELATED**
Wait a minute. Such a low spot can destroy a moon? I am being to think that the scale is bad. A really weak character could destroy a moon before destroying some people? It is easier to destroy a moon before destroying a city? and you guys in the other RP are battling someone who could destroy your planet? This sounds like an inconsistent scale to me. Are there any other scales to use for measuring powers? If not, I may be tempted to create my own scale that will take into account everything in the Gargoyles universe. I am already tempted to create one to use with ITAG. If so, I will need to do a lot of consulting with a lot of different opinions to create an equitable scale.

BTW, Fred Hitman was in Speed Star HQ last time, not ITAG HQ.
**END POWER LEVEL/RP RELATED**

**WORK RELATED**
Bad directions and inadequate information lead to problems for people working for temping agencies.
**END WORK RELATED**

David G, it's DPH not DHP. Another thing I thought of yesterday, if you switch places with the 'e' and 'a' in Daniel, you get 'denial'.

'gifted' - My problem with the term is people assume if you are 'gifted' in one area, you're equally 'gifted' in other areas. I wish there was some way on my resume to list being 'gifted'.

**BFTS RP continues**
*Speed Star HQ*
Fred Hitman had been rereading the report for an hour when he was interrupted by Janet Williams.

"Sir, the police are trying to catch one of our members buying illegal drugs." said Janet Williams.

"Thanks for the information. A lawyer might get a member to plea bargain and shut down this gang. Wait a minute, I thought all our members are drug-free." replied Fred Hitman.

"There is a rumor that certain members are addicted." replied Janet Williams.

"Who?" replied Fred Hitman.

"Some who sell the drugs are rumored to be addicted." said Janet Williams.

"Hmm, I want Todd Johnson, Kate Bowers, and you to investigate it. Directly and only report to me." said Fred Hitman.

"Yes sir." replied Janet Williams.
**END BFTS RP FOR NOW**
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Thursday, July 6, 2000 11:29:04 AM
IP: max1-24.cwy.cei.net

For those of you procrastinating on making Gathering arrangements (ahem, who me?) be advised that the hotel has booked solid for Saturday and Sunday Night. Time to start working those email addresses for friends that thought ahead.
kathy
Thursday, July 6, 2000 10:34:11 AM
IP: rr-165-123-73.atl.mediaone.net

Gside: What's a CD burner do then? Forgive me for knowing little about computer hardware! And as for the bodies from Pompeii, they sure looked ash-covered to me. <sighs> Whatever.
Kitainia
Thursday, July 6, 2000 10:20:17 AM
IP: pool-209-138-207-137-dlls.grid.net

DPH:
Oh, no! You mean that we have something else in common? :) The term "gifted" has always bothered me. People often have unreasonable expectations of those who carry that label. My teachers would often seem puzzled by my difficulty in school since testing had pronounced me "gifted." I guess they couldn't fathom how someone could have a "gifted" IQ and still have a learning disability. Speaking of which, I once had a discussion with a counselor where I talked about my learning disability, and she immediately stopped me and said that they now preferred to call it a "learning difference." Excuse me? Am I a moron? Does changing the name change the nature of the problem? Or is it intended to make me feel better about myself?
Sorry; bit of a rant there.
----
Cyborg:
RE: "No one has the right to be a bigot." Umm, Greg said that. You seemed to indicate that I did as well. So did Silycondr, whose identity is fairly obvious BTW. I wouldn't say such a thing. Think it? Probably. Imply it? Possibly. I would say that no one has the right to shove their prejudiced crap down my throat and if they try, they'll get an earful. I won't, however, dispute someone's right to think whatever they want. Thought and action are two separate things.

As far as my town goes, I think that the reason that homosexuals seem to be so tolerated here is primarily economic. They've brought a LOT of money into town. The almighty dollar triumphs again. :) Also, while they are open about their orientation, they don't flaunt it either. And most of them are in stable monogamous relationships. The attitude is "live and let live."
----
Silycondr:
Thanks for the comments, and welcome! I think I clarified myself I bit better above, so I won't repeat it.
----
Mecord & Peter:
If Greg didn't jump on you, I think you're safe. ;) It IS ok to have differing opinions.
----
There goes Todd, dropping tantalizing hints again :P
----
Oh, Crzy, I have to agree with the comments about your costume for Aimee. I didn't know it was possible to do so much with so little. ;) I guess overheating wouldn't be a problem.
----
I actually typed this last night, but I was having connection problems and then fell asleep. :P
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Thursday, July 6, 2000 08:52:33 AM
IP: ppp-16.rb5.exit109.com

*Warpmind enters, still drooling over the pics of Aimee Major.*
So she's good-looking. Sue me. ;)

Silycondr: I was counting on the advertisement effect. ;) Plus, in my local area, there *are* actually peoplewho still thing anything outside of heterosexuality is a thing of the Devil. I actually pity them...

Todd Jensen: The werewolf you mentioned in Arthurian legend... that'd be Marrok. He is one of the reincarnated knights in my ficverse. :) And just to be cruel and punnish, his name is now Wolfgang Ritter. ]:)

Christine: I suspected it would have to be second-hand... oh, well, I'll keep an eye open, I guess... :|

Jackal: You want to feel life growing inside of you? Sheesh, enlist for the Company; maybe you'll get to team up with Lt. Ripley. ;)

Emambu: *Gasp* You won't boast your Scandinavian heritage often? For cryin' out loud, it were the VIKINGS who found America 500 years before that upstart Cristopher Colombus! ;)

**RP**
Warpmind strides into the control room of the Avatar of Ganon, closely followed by the Quencher.
"Well, hello? Fancy meeting the lot of you here."
Mephisto rasies his head, staring at Warpmind and the Quencher. So do the others.
"Foolish mortal, you defeated the Quencher, and now you've brought her back? Why?"
The Quencher grimaces and sneers at Mephisto.
"As if you should care. Lord Lucifer is joining forces with the other side to battle the Ten. I have been ordered by them to cooperate with the Realmsfarer and the Seeker. And by the way... why have YOU come here?"
Mephisto coughs and turns his head to SJ again.
"Ehum, right... Sevarius Jr, shall we return to the business at hand?"
Warpmind clears his throat.
"Everybody, I need your help. Where is the Seeker, and where is the most urgent need for help right now?"
**RP END**
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Thursday, July 6, 2000 05:00:01 AM
IP: mp-217-203-117.daxnet.no

Rolling Calf> <<electrostatic bond>>: Sounds yummy. also sounds like a suite project for next year (if Tom ever finishes that rail gun (sreiously)).

Xenatrek> <<one of those floating bed thing that you use for the water>>: Air mattress. Also good for dealing with those pointy rocks that seem to be right under your sleeping bag. My parents used to take students out west camping, and have done it with me a couple times, so I know a couple things: a hotel room is the best way to go.

Graymonk> <<Why talking Monkeys? I think the better question is Why not?>>: Sifu, drunken zen master Immortal Monkey King. (see http://www.journeytothewest.com/ I am addicted to online comics)
<<Actually the sock puppets were GXB's idea>>: !@$#. Oops.
GXB> Forgive me?

DPH> <<being 'gifted' is not all it is cracked up to be>>: but if you find the right place, it can be quite fun. I love Rutgers honors housing. Where else can you get someone almost getting a Trivial Prusuit answer wrong because he was being too specific? "I think it was the infrared infrarometer." The answer should have been
just the 'Hubble Telescope'. (source: http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~tfarrell/stupid.html ) We also have people yelling at professors because of their mistakes.

Spacebabie> <>: You really only need to get the surface of steaks. Ground beef and chicken are what needs to be cooked all the way through.

Todd Jensen> <<there are, in fact, "good werewolves" in the Arthurian legend>>: Marrok, needed his clothes to be human, which his wife hid on him.

Kitainia> <<CD-ROM with at least 380 Megabytes of free space>>: Inherent in the definition of ROM is the notion of write only. I do not think that CDROMS are designed to have their bits flipped.
<<ash-covered bodies from Pompeii>>: There aren't any. When they first started digging at Pompeii, they were stumpped by these weirdly shaped holes/air pockets. Someone had this great idea of pouring cement into the holes. They wound up with a nice statue. The trapped bodies decayed leaving the holes.

Niamhgold> <>: That's right, I'm the sorceress! Ha ha! Actually, I think the spell slingers are probably the closest approximation to an engineer.
<<About when, EDT, does the room wipe?>>: I think they try to go for midnight between Sunday and Monday.

Emambu> <>: Hey! Just because they have the lowest highest point...

They got a call to write a song about the war in the gulf, but they shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings. So they tried, and gave up, 'cause there was no such song, but the trying was very revealing. I am late once again, but by popular demand, I give you The Gulf War Song, by Moxy Fr�vous.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, July 6, 2000 03:37:25 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

*Emambu enters after a brief absense. I've decided to add a picture to my name. After a month in this CR, I feel that I've earned it. :)*

I hope everyone had a happy Fourth of July. If you didn't celebrate it, then I hope that you still had a good day regardless. I got back from Danville on Tuesday, but I haven't had time to do much else except read and comment on two fanfic stories (nods to Rodlox). Seems I've missed a lot, but I'll do my best to catch up.

Gside and Wilek: Thank you for you condolences. I ended up staying in Danville for about 36 hours longer then I originally expected because my cousin took it kind of hard, as did my aunt (since that was her father).

Warpmind: I would boast my Scandinavian roots, but since it only makes up about 1/10 of my heritage, I don't do it often. When people ask, I tell them I'm Italian because that's where the majority of my lineage comes from *sees a nod of approval from Shadowrider :)*.

Winterwolf: Have a good time at G2K (Actually, this applies to everyone who is attending)! Like I said, maybe I'll run into your group. If you see an 18-year old, short Italian kid with puffy hair who's wearing a Mos Eisely Cantina shirt... that's me :)

Brooklyn: Haven't heard from you in a while. I hope everything's ok with you (I need someone to help me finish all these caramels that I brought back form Delaware). I look foward to part 2 of your story.

Doug: If you get the chance you should go to Delaware. IMHO, I enjoy it more then the Jersey shore. There's not as much noise pollution and it's much cleaner. Also, as you said, the people down there are very friendly.

Starsinger: This is kind of late, so you might not be reading this. However, it wouldn't be right if I did wish a fond farewell. I haven't been around here long enough to know you very well but I do hope that you will decide to post here again one day.

Airwalker, Hyperion, Zath, Cyborg, and Mandolin: I see that all of you have already been welcomed backed, but what's one more? Anyway, welcome back!

Firestorm: If it's not too late, I going to vote on the CR pics tomorrow.

Mary Flanders, Shinigami, Bronx, and Lawrence: I applaud your courage. I doubt that sharing personal information about yourselves was easy. Personally, I don't care if a person is bisexual or homosexual or heterosexual or anything like that. Sexual preference does not a person make. To me, a person is summed up by his/her character. I am ashamed by those who discriminate because someone else has a different look on life. One of my best friends is bisexual, and because of that she wasn't well respected in my high school. However, she's one of the smartest people I've met. She finished her junior year, but is already going to college. She's has an amazing singing voice (alto). She's also very athletic. She plays water polo, and was the only woman to start on the varsity team. However, the greatest quality about her is her kindness. She has one of the kindest hearts I've ever seen. But she's bisexual, and as a result, all of those wonderful qualities seem to vanish in most people's eyes. Now, I don't mind if people have opinions against homosexuality or bisexuality. After all, they're opinions. I was raised to never look down on someone just because they were different from me. That doesn't make me better, it's just what I was taught. To dislike someone for there opinions, even if I don't personally agree with them, would make me a hypocrite. However, what my friend went through was beyond a difference of opinions. At times it was pure cruelty and malice, and that's what I could not stand.

Spacebabie and Coyote: I also applaud you for your courage as well as offer my condolences to any trauma that you might have experienced during those times.

I hope you all have a nice evening. Take care,

---Emambu
Emambu - [ErikMambu@aol.com]
Philadelphia, PA, USA
Thursday, July 6, 2000 03:09:50 AM
IP: spider-wj054.proxy.aol.com

Robby----No problem, glad we can get this problem resolved. ANyway, No offense, but the RP, if you could take over my character for a while, or write him away for a bit, I would thank you. LegionQuest is starting to itch at me...and I have to devote a lot of time to that coming up soon.

Let's see. For collectors out there, I keep seeing the Gundam MS's for GW at Kay-Bee toys for 10 bucks a piece. ALmost bought DeathScythe, but the service at the store was horrible. But For Heavy Arms and Sand Rock, they have the Kai Conversions with them, which rocks. Now if I could only find DS Hell and Altron

Tenchi- Good series so far. Ryoko is pretty interesting, and you have to wonder if there isn't ANYTHING between Ayaka and Tenchi.

DBZ Tapes. Androids: INvasion and Dr. Gero is out...about 10 days before the expected date...and they DON"T HAVE GOKU"S ORDEAL! KAMI! HELP US!!!!! If you ever get a chance, See Goku's Ordeal, Robby, you probably know what I'm talking about...with Chi Chi making Goku Drive....I'll leave it at that.

Extended Toonami...if only the kept Ronin...though I stopped watching it after seeing the whole series over again. Too bad they'd never add Transformers...The Adventures of Batman is great...don't get me wrong...but that's better for outside Toonami

X-men- 9 more days they say. YES! Been meaning to get the Jean Grey Figure...but never can find it for Cheap.

Timedancer---Read the last two eps, LOVED THEM.

Not much else going on. Sorry I left...things got hectic bnth on and off the net. Later folks.

Gasper
MN, US
Thursday, July 6, 2000 01:21:41 AM
IP: 209.83.84.4

<<the baby will be removed by Ceasaring...leaving a scar for life and lactating nipples?>>
MMmmm lactating nipples!!! :o)~
Well, you're lukin at the "negative" side of it. I'm talkin about feeling a life grow inside me.

How did charred mammal flesh get to be a topic??

I hate to be an asshole, but f**k, I just can't help it, I'm soo bitter about everything, I need more than a hug...
Robby- How do you feel about the main topic of discussion in the CR? Guess what?! I had nothin to do with it..., well I didn't start it. You make me sick. Don't address or relate to me ever again.
JackaL
Thursday, July 6, 2000 01:02:36 AM
IP: ac9d6bee.ipt.aol.com

** Niamhgold comes in for a *real* quickie **

Just coming in to say hi! and that I had a great 4th. Hope you guys did too! I'll [hopefully] have a longer post tomorrow, when my brain isn't so fuzzy :)

Winterwolf: Will respond to e-mail as soon as my writing is coherent enough! Shoulda known you would have been the Barbarian...although I still can't picture myself as being a sorceress! ;)

Shadowrider: Check your e-mail! I think my server was slow in delivering to me. So, since you haven't been contacted by the military yet, does that mean you'll be around here for a long time? Here's hoping (although I'll still be sure to give you a "glad you're staying" cake!) :)

Just a naive, Niamhgold-esque question (as Tony the Tiger rides by on a tricycle in the background): About when, EDT, does the room wipe? I wanna stake a claim on the top ten! ;)

** A sleepy niamhgold exeunts **

Adios, amigos!
Niamhgold - [niamhgold@hotmail.com]
Thursday, July 6, 2000 12:21:21 AM
IP: lac-flex157.ncia.net

DPH- SOmeone with a power level of about 150 can blow up the moon going by DBZ standards. (Muten Roshi blew up the moon early on in Dragonball. Later on Piccolo with his power of under a 1000 blew it up again...) SOmeone with a power of 5000 can blow up a city real easy just by flicking their fingers... 18,000 can blow up a planet with power manipulation into a fireball or some such, but there are exceptions. Someone with a power over a million might not be able to destroy a planet if its big and they've been weakened...

Gasper- You didn't get my e-mail? Figures, my e-mail has been screwy the last few days... Basically I appologized. No one else seems to mind about you using DBZ references even if they don't get them, so I suppose I was being overcautious. *Shrugs*

Pendragon teasers- And you thought *I* was bad where TImedancer was involved... Todd's gonna be just as bad with Pendragon I think...

Tenchi- I'm just glad this show was originally dubbed with only video release in mind. As a result, its a lot closer to the original japanese version in content and dubbing quality than most anime dubbed for television, like SAILOR MOON seems to be... I've already seen the whole series, but its fun anyway...

Lady Mystic- I assume you didn't get my e-mail either? Oii...

I'll RP this weekend when I have a bit more free time on my side... I'll be trying to bring the fight with 4 close to its end... But I gotta get back to work right now...

Robby
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 11:19:12 PM
IP: spider-we014.proxy.aol.com

DHP> Power level question: There's not really a good way to answer you without a basis for comparison. In an RPG, you would determine the ammount of damage the island could take without being destroyed, then you'd be able to say that anyone who could deal that much damage would be powerful to destroy an island.

To confine our exploration to Gargoyles, I present the following list of people who could reasonably destroy an entire island. (Defining "Destroy" as making the island pretty well usless)

David Xanatos
Halcyon Renyard - Either one by buying some illegal nukes and blowing it up.

Oberon
Madoc
Danu - They're really powerful spellcasters

Demona
Macbeth - They both have lots of spare time. If nothing else, they could use spoons to dig the entire place away to nothing, but they'd probably get bored.

There are probably more, but that's a good start. The problem is that we don't have an agreed upon way to quantify their power levels.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 10:56:16 PM
IP: ip8.fort-worth8.tx.pub-ip.psi.net

Hmm. I am stumped by how to start. I should be sleeping. :( I gotta go to work at 7:10am tomorrow.

Star Trek - I was watching the original series on sci-fiction and a thought occured to me: not all episodes of star trek the original series should be canon:an errand of mercy and the one they showed today (a machine that could make androids).

**power level debate**
No one has responded to my question about power levels required to destroy an island, asteroid, moon, or planet.
**end power level debate**

darn, I don't have a long enough post to write RP today.
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 10:19:23 PM
IP: max1-55.cwy.cei.net

Kit> Thanx for the support, and anyone else I forget to mention. I'm not sure I want to work there anymore any way.

And don't worry, the killer bunny rabbits and the Sock Puppets will be dominating "Pendragon" this season;) Arthur will be going on a quest for the Golden Grail which was crafted by the less talented brother of the guy who crafted the Holy Grail and has the power to make you glow for a bit after you drink from it. On the way they'll encounter Morgana's evil killer bunnies as well as a tribe of lawn gnomes that are members of the Illuminati. And the Connection will turn out to be Elisa's cat Cagney who is actually evil.

::Runs out of the room as the TGS Anti-Spoiler Corps led by Batman enter:: YOU'LL NEVER CATCH ME BATMAN!!! HA HA HA HA!
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 09:55:50 PM
IP: dialin-628-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Crzy > amazing costume! Woo, Aimee! How'd that stay on? Hot glue? ; )

Warpmind > you can find the original Demon Seed in paperback occasionally at used bookstores, along with many of his books done under pseudonyms.

Jackal > illusions shattered, eh? ; ) Sorry ...

Christine
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 09:08:39 PM
IP: 16-201.009.popsite.net

*** BEGIN TGS CR INFO UPDATE ANNOUNCEMENT ***

The archive has been updated.

I also added due date information to the voting page and some more questions to the FAQ (#7-8).

You can get to all these pages from the index page (see name's link).

*** END TGS CR INFO UPDATE ANNOUNCEMENT ***

Fire Storm =

<<If someone thinks violent thoughts, writes violent thoughts, but does not act out violent thoughts (Quite the contrary, the person is very caring), should that person be considered a violent person?>> Depends. If the person's first impulses and initial reactions to stimuli are violent yet the person does not react violently then I say the person has violent tendencies as a characteristic to their personality. However, he/she would not be considered violent do to his/her self-restraint. If the person only thinks violent material when daydreaming or when composing art or literature but not at any other given time then I say the person is average. He/She has an imagination characteristic of violence. However, he/she isn't violent by nature. If the person only thinks violent material when dreaming then I say that the person may possess violent tendencies very deep within his/her psyche but has enough restraint to block those tendencies and thus be considered non-violent. If the person's first impulses and initial reactions to stimuli are violent and the person has acted out violence only occasionally yet with growing occurences then I say that the person has lost self-restraint and, who was probably once a non-violent person, would now be considered violent. Anyone can become this way due to various factors, usually stress. And it can be corrected.

<<And, if this CR is not a very relaxing place, why do so many people feel free to tell things you may never share with another person?>> People don't necessarily confide in others only when the atmosphere is calm and relaxing. Things get said during arguements, casual chats, ramblings, etc. It doesn't always go hand in hand with a relaxing atmosphere. -- Even though a relaxing atmosphere may be the first thing that comes to mind with the mention of confidence of things secret. I believe people come here not only to relax and chat but to relinquish stress also. And sometimes that means telling others about a secret that has been causing a lot of stess.

<<Why do men like lesbian/bisexual women? Hmm... I guess because men like the idea of women being open with thier sexuality. I think men think that if a women is open to different things, he has a better chance of scoring. PLUS the idea of two women together doubles a man's odds of having sex with one of them.>> All true, IMO. But just because a woman is "open," "fun/perky," and is "willing" it doesn't necessarily mean that you will get sex as frequently as you would like or even at all. Men automatically assume that if a woman is bi- or homosexual she is automatically the ideal woman. But in actuallity, she's like any other heterosexual woman. She has traits that are attractive, nice, tollerable, less than tollerable, unattractive, and even down right annoying. She's average. Too many people stereotype orientation. For many people, a bi- or homosexual woman is initially considered better and funner to be with in a relationship than a heterosexual one. That a bi- or homosexual female is devoid of flaws that a heterosexual female possesses. It's unfair and makes it harder for woman of any orientation to prove who they truely are. This can cause trouble in relationships (social, romantic, and friendship), in various enviroments (work, home, etc), and in numerous situations. I look at it as a prejudice. These views of bi- and homosexual women are a part of today's human nature, but I wish it weren't so.

<<My personal reason is that I REALLY like women with short hair.>> Yeah, FS used to go GA-GA for women with short hair, as long as he found them attractive in short hair. Luckily, he now has restraint and had some sense knocked into him (thanks to the "troublemaker" at Office Depot -- who coincidentally had short hair). Considering FS's attraction to short haired women, he has never dated anyone with short hair. Go figure!

<<My Aerostar is beyond recovery.>> **HUGS** I wish it weren't so. I know how much you wanted to get the Aerostar repaired and use everyday. Sorry, hon. :(

<<Now, would you consider someone bisexual who feels bisexual/homosexual tendencies but never acts upon them bisexual or just hetero? Is someone who firts but never dates someone of the same sex bi?>> I'd consider them bisexual/homosexual for both circumstances. I believe that a person's sexual orientation is based on the gender of the individuals he/she is and has been attracted to, dated, crushed on, flirted with, and bonded intimately and romantically with (not necessarily a significant other or sexually). All these components make up an individual's sexual orientation. However, I do not include sexual activity among the factors. A person can have sex with someone regardless of the above factors.

<<Society, for one part, says that men are for women ONLY. Women can be for men and women. (Society sucks!)>> I see that too, and agree.

<<Thats why the old phrase "All the good men are either taken or gay" is so true! (The male counterpart is: "The best women are bi!" :)>> I disagree, for many reasons already stated above.

<<A long and lasting relationship with someone, or having sex with a different man/woman every night?>> A long lasting monogamous relationship. The other lifestyle never appealed to me and I plan on never trying it.

Daniel Johnson = RE: The CR as a community = Very well formulated and writen comment. I believe that the CR is a community and thus has a web of personalities that make up a larger personality. Possessing a personality dictates that one can look at the room through psychological means. Personalities evolve and change over time. They are also governed by the situation at hand and the enviroment in question. Thus there isn't any "black and white" answer to your question or approach to the CR and its personality.

Coyote = RE: Your experiences at camp = I'm more sorry than words can say. I know that some things scar for life and that this sounds like one of those things. I hope that your pain and troubles caused by what happened are few and that they will decrease as time goes by. I understand a bit of what you are dealing with, I too have been victimized in the past (in different circumstances than your own). I'm not going to go into further detail due to the fact that it's too private. Again, my condolences. **HUGS**

Add to the list of votes recieved:

Graymonk

That's all for now. Later, 
Lady Mystic - [lady-mystic@usa.net]
Dearborn, MI
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 08:58:49 PM
IP: 1cust108.tnt5.det3.da.uu.net

Tenchi/Ayeka (I know I hacked it.)---Todays episode explained the Yosho Marriage. Customary ritual in the planet Jurai's customs. Hope this helps explain what's going on.

Kit--Not leaving, just waiting to get this resolved.
Gasper
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 08:14:56 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

**RP ALERT**

The screen comes on displaying a landscape we have not seen before in the RP- the moon. A crashed escape pod from the Avatar lies in the center of a large crater, and landing beside it is an Imperial shuttle. Admiral Nipon steps out dressed in a spacesuit and walks over to the escape pod. Looking inside, he calls out, "Guod?!" "Here!" says a voice from the pod's computer equipment. "You're�you're," Nipon frowns. Guod's smiling face appears on a monitor and he laughs. "Yes, this is about all that's left of me now. I no longer have a body. How that came about I will explain later. Where's Thailog?" "He sent me to come get you. I'm supposed to take you to Atlanta to aid in a spying operation there. Something's going on in that city that the boss is worried about. If you help me find out what, Thailog will let you back onto our team." "I see. Too bad he didn't forget my failure." Guod sighs. "Oh well. So let's get me back to Earth then. You'll need a CD-ROM with at least 380 Megabytes of free space." "I have one," Nipon says, taking it out and placing it in a drive. Guod smiles and begins to self-download.

The display changes to an elevator in the Ankara apartment complex owned by Erin's family. Gubio, Mist, and Erin have just stepped inside. "I didn't realize the Underground City was this close," Gubio remarks as Erin pushes in a combination of buttons and lets a machine that pops out of a secret panel scan her eyes. "I did say it was right underneath Ankara," Erin grins. "Pretty deep down, though, to effectively remain hidden from humans. Most humans, anyway." She presses another button and steps back from the panel as the elevator begins its descent. "Okay, we'll be there shortly." "Good," Gubio replies, and Mist meows in agreement. "Your family and Bessus will contact the people who can help us against Abdullah while we're down here?" Gubio then asks, and Erin nods. "Yes. By this evening, we should have all the help we'll need lined up, and the flower for your friend." "Good," Gubio nods, smiling. Then he frowns. "By the way, there's something I've been meaning to ask you." "Yes?" Erin asks. "You and that Bessus guy�were you ever an�" "An item?" she chuckles. "Once, but it was a long time ago. Don't worry about any competition from him now." Gubio smiles. "You broke up, huh?" "Yes," Erin nods. "When he discovered he was more inclined to be like TE Lawrence than any other man when it came to matters of love." Gubio looks confused for a second, then realizes what she means and nods. "I see. Let's, uh, change the subject. These lion people, caiveh or whatever you called them, they have any customs I'll need to observe while I'm in their town?" "Not really," Erin replies. "They have their own language, but Vincent and most of the other leaders speak English. Just act your usual cheerful self, treat everyone with respect, do as the Romans do, and you will be fine." "Alright," Gubio shrugs, nodding. Erin gives him a smile and then looks at Mist, who meows as the elevator comes to a stop and its doors open. The three step out into the interior of a small stone building dimly lit by glowing fungi. A loud roar from nearby causes them to turn and gasp as a huge red-furred creature that looks half-man/half-lion, is wearing chainmail armor and combat harness, and carries several weapons, leaps out of the shadows and points a laser rifle at them with a grim expression on his face. The screen fades out as Gubio and Mist's hands involuntarily reach for their guns.

**ON A POSSIBLE CLIFFHANGER ($nobody intervene, please, Doug and I have plans. Thank you $), END THIS BIT OF RP**

Hi everyone! <sighs> Looks like it's time for me to play catch-up once again. :) Good that the CR is back to an apparently peaceful atmosphere now, the lack of one before and other things kept me from doing it earlier. Now I feel like I can once again enter here and relax. Hope everyone had a good Fourth. Doug and I attended the local free patriotic music concert and watched the fireworks while eating snow cones as we do every year. This time around it was just as much fun. :) Now on to comments and replies.

Gasper: $ Your DBZ influence in the RP didn't upset me or Doug, but then we don't watch DBZ that much, so maybe it confused us too much for that. <shrugs> I regret you've apparently left the room over it, there are many other enjoyable things to do in here besides participate in the RP. But it's your decision. For the record, I believe that both you and Robby have good cases in your debate, I don't think I'm going to favor one or the other. Hope you soon are able to get things resolved by yourselves. $

Jackal: I'm still sorry about the hassles you're encountering in your life, but it's good that you've calmed down now and become more accepting as far as your new baby goes. Bringing a child into the world should always be more of a joy than a burden IMO. Regardless of that, I do still understand why it might be difficult for you to handle this new addition to your life and family. If you need any help dealing with the situation that Doug and I can provide, just ask and we'll do our best. Good luck to you and all your family with the child, and same to it when it begins life outside the womb.

Shadowrider: Your friend has never been published? That's disappointing. If the awards you mentioned and the little bit of his work I've seen are any key, he certainly should have been by now. Lousy industry. Oh well, I wish him good luck in getting his work out to more people real soon. Same to you in all your endeavours. :)

Niamhgold: <nods> I too hope those kids get a good and safe home now. Too bad we'll never know for sure, but we can hope and pray. :)

SJ: Yep, Tower Records is indeed a cool place to work. If it weren't for the too-loud and often bad music we have to play over the loudspeakers all day and the parade of annoying customers it would be almost perfect. But we unfortunately have to deal with those. :( I will be praying for your father as his healing continues. Thanks for the info on Chris Noth (I too would like to see him on X-Files if that's going to happen) and for making me laugh for a few seconds with the Elian-related joke.

**MILD TIMEDANCER SPOILERS**

Return to Paradise 2: Great job on the TD Season 3 finale, Robby, Ordell, and Stephen (as if that hasn't been said enough already :). Really enjoyed the action and development in the episode, and liked the pics, dialogue, and surprises too. Seeing Lex again was great, though I am wondering when we'll find out how he became the way he was. Harthoth's involvement also made an interesting side plot, a good correlating story to the problem of having to save the twins (glad that they lived :). Seeing what's gone on with Payne since his burial in Pompeii was good too, it made his character a lot more well-developed and sinister. Now I'm going to be wondering if any ash-covered bodies from Pompeii are really him the next time I see such things in a museum. :) Overall, excellent work on this story. It was all good, even the scene with Gwen and Angela (though I agree that did feel a little tossed-in, wish she had at least mentioned why she called). Looking very forward to next season, but of course know I will see Pendragon first (and thus looking forward to it more :).

**SPOILERS END**

Archwolf: <mutters> Sorry to hear about your suffering under a supervisor who's a selfish idiot. Hope you got things resolved to the benefit of both you and your partner. If not, well, I hope in the future you both have much better luck at work. <sighs> Also sorry to hear about the awful one-night stand you endured. I can proudly say I have never used any person for that and never intend to. Hope that you will be luckier in love in the future and never have to endure such an experience again.

Kyryn: I too am sorry about Okami's grandmother. <moment of silence> At least she's hopefully in a better place.

New Movies: Looking forward to Jurassic Park 3 and Indy 4, if only because I enjoyed all the previous installments in those franchises (Temple of Doom had a lot of problems, but some bits of it were good). Terminator 3 I won't be so keen on if they don't bring back Cameron's involvement in the series, therefore I hope they do. :)

Long Walk: I too enjoyed the book, even though it creeped me out more than any other Stephen King novel. :) I might tolerate a game show based on it, with the changes SJ mentioned. Do have to wonder how they'd eliminate contestants without exhaustion, dehydration, and don't-stop rules.

<moment of silence for Walter Matthau>

Welcome back to Cyborg, Zath, Joe, Airwalker, and everyone else who's left us behind for a while and has now thankfully returned! :) Hope you will soon come back again.

Cyborg: Sorry to hear your father's in the hospital, your posts have made him sound like a good man, and it's never easy to see a good man in pain, especially when it's someone you love. Therefore I hope he gets out soon and will be praying for him. :) Glad his surgery at least went well. Guess I should also win you good luck curing the muscle/ligament disorder you have, if that's possible. Good luck. :)

Jannie: Good luck with the reunion and your trip. Will miss you while you're gone.

Mary: Sorry I missed saying this earlier (easily explained by the distraction of your last few posts), but congrats on the good grades!

GXB: Also sorry that I forgot to comment on you getting discriminated against because of your hair up until now. That was really a wrong thing, and I hope that you can soon find a job that will let you be who you are and keep it the length you want while providing a good salary and benefits. Wish I could give more aid with that than I can. :(

Jenna: Glad your annoying co-worker is gone now and I too hope that your work will be more pleasant and endurable as a result. Let your friends in here know if we can help that be so in any way. :)

Startling Confessions: Well, we had a lot more of these in here than I ever expected. Amazing. :) Don't know really what to say about all of them, other than that they have surprised me and everyone who's gone through them has my sympathy and/or understanding. Coyote, the abuse you describe indeed sounds like it was very traumatic. I completely agree with you that the purveyors of it deserve some form of really awful (for them) revenge. Congratulations on surviving what they did to you, and turning out a good person in general even if you're still bitter about it. :) Same to you, Spacebabie, with your awful past experience. I am very glad that it's over now. To both of you, as well as to Bronx, Mary, Lawrence, Cyborg, and all the other people who have recently confessed something about themselves others might find uncomfortable, congratulations on your courage and thanks for trusting us with these things like you have. I am very glad to see that so far you have not found anyone speaking out against you and your decisions, instead only supportive and accepting friends. :) I too would be angry at anyone who tried to attack you because of the words you have spoken. When someone makes a confession, getting mad at them is not the way to go, especially when it involves something about who they are and it would really hurt them if someone pointed out that they shouldn't be revealing such things, that such things are wrong, and so on. Very glad no one in here has done this. :) Nobody of good heart and decent intelligence likes a bigot (people who disapprove of such things as we said, but tolerate them are okay, don't worry Peter and Mecord :). As for the confessions that involve stuff bigots might not necessarily protest, well, it's been the decision of the people involved to reveal them and now they're getting even more friendship and support from the rest of us as a result. <grin> Good things all around. Hope that in the future if and when we choose to share any more of our secrets with one another, they get just as good a reception (I know I still have many secrets myself I'll be keeping inside for a while, though :). Thanks to all who have given us hugs and warm wishes. <returns them> Good luck to everyone here in staying comfortable with who we are and what has made us so, and in helping others to deal with it, as we continue to undergo the trials of our lives.

Firestorm: Give me a long-lasting relationship with one person any day. Those are way more special. I know a few men who would pick one too. :) I agree with you that women are more tolerant and open about things. <smile> Don't fully know why, but it's true. As for whether I'd consider someone who has bisexual thoughts but doesn't act on them bisexual I don't know. IMO, a person's sexual orientation should be more up to them than anyone else. Thus it would depend on the feeling of the person in question, whoever that might be.

Green Baron: I too am glad my family dropped their prejudice, and I agree with you about Republicans. Political people in general are unfortunately very close-minded when it comes to worldviews not their own, or so it seems. :(

Pendragon Season 3: Not sure what I'd like to see in it, Todd, though many of the things Graymonk mentioned do sound intriguing (btw, welcome Graymonk and thanks for all the intriguing character and relationship sketches and ideas). More development on Griff and Brianna's relationship would be very welcome, as would more on the lives of Arthur's modern knights and all the various villains he brought up. The one thing Graymonk mentioned that I'd dislike seeing is Arthur and Elaine together, I like Jennifer Camford a lot more than her, plus her relationship with Arthur seems to have less complications and thus more likelihood of getting off the ground. But I will deal with whatever ends up happening. :) I also agree with Ed about flashbacks and the overall feel the series should have. The possibility of killer bunnies and sock puppets GXB mentioned sounds nice too, provided they're used sparingly as comic relief and don't dominate things. :) Until August, I will be eagerly waiting for all the Pendragon action to begin.

Cyborg again: Good points about the reasons for being attracted to guys and girls. Sometimes you seek understanding and closeness, sometimes you want strong protectors. Both are good things to have, and it's even better to have both if you're lucky enough to find them in the same person. :) <it is nice to be able to kiss without being scratched by beard stubble> That's true, unless you're the kind of girl who likes things rough. <grins, kissing Doug on his bearded face> Also good bit about cops (though I must add to it the opinion that even if they're not chosen for intelligence, it is good to have smart ones around :).

Xenatrek: I agree with you about disability, congrats on being able to deal with and overcome yours as much as you have. Sorry to hear about the discrimination you've experienced because of it, hope that will soon die down. :) And welcome back!

Non-Conformists: Add me and all my friends to the list. We are considered to be non-conformists by many people, and we flaunt it, not caring what they think. :)

Lady Mystic: Glad you received the votes from Doug and me, and so many other people. Thanks for telling us, hope that many more votes are on the way.

Silycondr: Uh, welcome? Thanks for expressing your opinion. I agree with you about bigots and about PC being bad, though I really can't see how we've been expressing it in our recent discussion. I also know I never intended to start a debate with that discussion, don't think anyone else did either. <shrugs> About what you said happened with movies and TV in the '80s, forgive me for not knowing what the heck you're talking about. There have been plenty of movies and shows that don't even mention, let alone deal with, the issues you describe. Guess you've missed them by swearing off TV and movies. <grimace> Regrettable. Hope you didn't miss Gargoyles because of that oath. (Hope you will have and take the opportunity to watch eps of it sometime soon if so, and not just because that would make you more able to contribute to our discussions here. It's a very good and entertaining show after all.)

And I've reached the top of the room. :) That's all the catching-up I had to do, I guess. Boy, there were quite a few topics, weren't there? I know there will be even more next time I stop by. <grins> Looking forward to it. Later, friends.

**MORE RP ACTION**

The screen comes on again, showing the arena room on the Avatar of Ganon. Nine is still battling Forfexx and Anoth, but due to her higher power-level and Invincible Near-Nudity she is now winning easily. The Ravens have been trying to assist with sniper fire from the bleachers, but none of their shots do her the slightest harm. "This is getting tedious!" Kit is complaining to the others. "Why can't this fight just end?" "Beats me," Doug says. "Maybe that 'Nine' demon has some weakness we haven't found yet?" "None I know of," Mephisto yawns, looking at the arena below and watching Nine laugh as she tosses Anoth and Forfexx around like rag dolls. "And your friends are losing. This does not bode well for our deal." "Shut up," Kit orders him, then looks back at the others. "Think, guys. What are we gonna do?" "I don't know," Tricia sighs, having come into the room with Jammer a few short moments ago after visiting the infirmary and getting everyone more supplies. "My own psionic powers aren't nearly developed enough to take on that demon." "Neither are my magical ones," Elena grimaces. Boris and Tom simply sigh and shake their heads. "Maybe we can put some clothes on her or something," Jammer suggests, "cover up that bodysuit. That might deal with the Invincible Near-Nudity at least." "I doubt it," Kit shakes her head. She then looks at Miriam. "Doesn't this station have some secret weapon we can use on it?" "Not really," the Woman-In-Black solemnly replies. "Nearly all of the defense systems were knocked out when the Avatar collided with the asteroid. Mr. Nereus has informed me that he and the others have secured the place and are trying to get everything back online, but they're not having much success." "So no secret weapon?" Tom sighs. "Damn it." "You know," Doug speculates, looking at Kit and the rest of them, "we were teleported here from the control room by that guy named Anoth. Could he teleport just Nine somewhere else? Say somewhere like the core of an erupting volcano that would mean instant death?" Everyone turns and stares at him, then they almost spontaneously begin to smile. "That's it!" Kit whoops, hugging him. "Doug, you're a genius!" "Well, I�" he grins, but the rest of his words are cut off by a kiss. Kit releases him, then looks at Miriam. "We better call Anoth over." Miriam nods and shouts for the fay, who tells Forfexx to hold off Nine for a while and runs up. The Ravens quickly explain Doug's plan and he nods. "That's a good idea, I'm surprised I didn't think of it myself. I'll try it." "Good luck," Doug tells him. "I hope it works." Anoth nods that he does too and then goes running back. As Nine swats Forfexx away from her again, he shouts, "Yo, lady! Using the term loosely of course. Take this!!" Nine spins around to face him, just in time to get hit with a beam of magic that makes her disappear. Shortly afterwards a titanic scream shakes the station's walls, but it only lasts a few seconds. "Where'd you send her?" Boris asks. "Into the vacuum of space outside where she'd suffocate," Anoth smiles. "It was most convenient." "Good job, bro," Forfexx grins. "That fight was starting to stop being fun." Anoth nods in agreement and then looks back at the Ravens and Miriam. "So is the station secure now?" Miriam nods, then looks at Mephisto. "Except for him, yes." "And we have a deal, Mephisto," Doug adds. "You have to leave here in peace and relinquish control of our friend's soul." "I know, I know," Mephisto sighs, taking out a sheet of paper and pen from his pocket. "Let's go back to that control room, we can draw up the agreement there. I made a contract with Sevarius Jr., another contract will be required to undo it." "Okay," Kit nods in understanding. "We can check up on everything that's going on while we're up there too. Let's go." The others nod and they all get up and start walking out of the arena as the screen begins to fade. Outside the station, Nine's body is now drifting silent and lifeless among the asteroids in the void of space. It is obvious to any onlooker that she will never be bothering anyone again.

**THAT'S THE END OF HER AND THIS RP :)**
Kitainia - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 07:44:55 PM
IP: pool-209-138-163-66.dlls.grid.net

GRAYMONK - Actually, the original series itself made it clear that not all weres are bad: think of the werepanthers Fara Maku and Tea. True, they start off having some serious flaws, but they do atone for them at the end by setting out to be protectors to the innocent in Nigeria.

And there are, in fact, "good werewolves" in the Arthurian legend. One of the medieval tales about King Arthur says that he had a knight who periodically became a werewolf, but a benevolent one. His wife, who was secretly having an affair with another man, found out about this and found a way of trapping him in his wolf-form permanently so that he would disappear, she could have him declared legally dead, and then marry her lover (kind of like Demona's scheme against Macbeth in "Sanctuary", only substituting the transformation of her husband into a wolf for Demona locking Macbeth up in his own dungeon). Some years later, King Arthur was on a hunt when he came upon a tame wolf which amazed him by its human-level intelligence. He brought it back to court, where it got along nicely with everybody - except for the faithless wife and her lover, whom it angrily growled at whenever it encountered them. Arthur noticed this, got suspicious, and finally learned the truth. He found the means to get the werewolf back into his human form, and presumably the faithless wife and her lover were executed or underwent some other form of punishment.

However, that's all that I'll say about werewolves now. Particularly in a TGS context.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 07:31:50 PM
IP: 216.87.46.163.dialup-stl.primary.net

Sexuality> I find pretty well agree with Mecord on this matter (though I don't know any homo or bisexual people myslef).

Doug> I'll get you feedback as soon as possible, unfortunately my email is not co-operating right now.
Peter - [hybridone@ignmail.com]
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 06:50:05 PM
IP: dial-216.ocis.net

Hi, I'm me. There, I've identified myself. If you need to know more, uh, you'll just have to guess.

I'm not really here, I hardly even lurk, just once in a while stick my head in and skim. It looks fun in here, but I'm usually two weeks in my usual internet spot and you guys are *prolific* posters. I dropped in today because I heard about the "sexuality debate" and wanted to read it. I decided to post my views 'cause you guys seem afraid to tackle it. Since I'm posting, I'll respond to a few other things first...

Green Baron> Dead relatives name? Don't all kids get one, "Smith" or something following their unique personal name like "John" or something?
Oh, and about men liking bisexual women? I think that has more to do with photographers desperately seeking some way to make their pictures of naked women stand out from all the other very similar pictures of very similar naked women. Take my word for it, most men will look at naked women no matter what they are doing or who they are doing it with. I'm pretty sure this was carefully arranged by a certain woman... mother nature. Of course, once those pictures start publicising it, you are advertising and that, of course, has some effect.

Warpmind>> "POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE AND POLITICALLY INCORRECT?" Gimme a break, that's about as "party line" as you can get.

Green Baron>> LOL

Charred mammal flesh: As a lover of red meat, I was gratified to read the other day that charred, or even heavily browned, is definitely not good for you. Unfortunately, they wouldn't go as far as to say rare is best, but we all know that anyway. 8-[)

Daniel Johnson>> I actually got a "reasoned" answer from a bigot once. I was tired of hearing his opinion on every other race than his so I challenged him. His justification was that "we" have to keep separate and out-survive all the other races for purely Darwinian reasons. I suggested he should apply for the Darwinian Award; no luck so far.

Also... <No one has the right to be a bigot.> That is of censorship of the worst kind. I believe that no one has the right to spread bigotry and anyone who is bigoted has the right to be sneered at and ridiculed. I also believe that the moment you decide that what other people should be allowed to think, _you_ are a bigot.

Merced>> Bravo. I don't approve of your attitude, but there was a time when I shared it and I'm glad you feel safe expressing it. I hate PC, it just hides what people think and prevents real discussion. When I grew up, homosexuals were mythical creatures who could be safely be disapproved of and used as the butt of jokes because they didn't really exist so the jokes couldn't hurt anyone, right? I was shocked when I read in Scientific American that 1 in 6 males and 2 in 6 females were homosexual. It took many months, but just knowing that statistic did eventually change my attitude. I expect the statistic is wrong or has changed, but numbers aren't really the point.

Ok, my own opinion... Other than Merced, this has been quite a display of PC. Even Cyborg was fast to point out that this was an effort to create a debate rather than actually express an opinion. Ha! How can you have a debate without having an opinion? Ok, you want a dissenting opinion, I have *one* problem with gays. Not how they chose their partners and what they do with them, I don't care, it's none of my business, I'm even a little flattered when I notice I'm being hit on by some guy has *no* chance. The problem is, I used to like movies and even some TV shows. Then in the mid 80's, every movie and program was either about gay issues or included a little mimi-morality play about attitudes toward gays. EVERY SINGLE ONE. This went on for at least 10 years. I don't know if it's still like that, because I stopped watching movies and TV in the mid nineties. Don't the rest of us, as many as 5 of 6 males and 4 of 6 females, entitled to a little culture too?

Silycondr
EarthWednesday, July 5, 2000 06:49:49 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Graymonk> Not all the dragons are 100% evil. I'd hardly call Apep that. His entire race was slain, he was imprisoned in a pocket dimension rather than slain out-right to put salt on the wound. Why would he not be a tad bitter.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 06:18:56 PM
IP: dialin-628-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Remember me? :) I haven�t popped by this room in ages (about as long as it�s been since I�ve read a TGS episode actually). I�m hoping to get up to date with Timedancer in the current break though I�m not sure how much hope of achieving that I still have. It�s been such a long time that I�ve mostly forgotten what happened last. Thank heavens for the �previously� bits. I�m glad to hear Pendragon is coming soon. At least I�m still up-to-date reading that. :)

Todd: You asked at the beginning of the week about expectations for �Pendragon�. Actually I can�t remember half of it. I�d like to see Morganna being a regular villain again and given a bit more depth to distance her from being a �Demona-type� character. I�d also like to see more flashback scenes incorporated. I know these have been avoided because of the mishandling of them in the first half of season 1, but these always quite appealed to me and I think would look good mixed in with about the same level of usage as in �Gargoyles� at the beginning.

One thing I do hope that will happen is that the stories will treat the new season as a new season and not just episodes that continue straight on. What I mean by this is that the season will hopefully be self-contained to a degree, and that all characters should be introduced again in such a way that doesn�t impede the flow for older readers, but does make perfect sense for newcomers. This makes much more sense to me than the daunting stack of �previously� tags that are on some episodes. I�ve read all the Gargs/Pendragon stories (unlike the other 2 series which I�m behind in) but it�s been ages. It would be nice to have the stuff presented in such a way that is easy to explain. The further TGS goes from the original, the less accessible it�s going to be to people less familiar with it. I hope that the writers will take care in adapting to suit all audiences in this respect.
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
London, England
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 05:43:24 PM
IP: webcacheh13a.cache.pol.co.uk

*** BEGIN TGS CR IMAGES ANNOUNCEMENT ***

Winterwolf = <<Thersites I cleaned him up myself.>> Actually, no. That's what I tried emailing you about. There were a few problems with your image so I made a new one. Sorry. My email explained more. I'm sorry I couldn't get it to you beforehand. If you want me to try re-emailing you the original email again just let me know. Again, I appologize for the confusion and any misunderstandings.

Zath = <<I haven't voted because I never use the pictures and don�t plan on using them in the future, so any vote I sent in would just be a group of completely random selections serving no purpose other than possibly counteracting the votes of people who actually have an opinion on the subject.>> Thanks for mentioning this and for your consideration. :)

Recieved votes from:

- Susan Foster
- Shadowrider
- Winterwolf
- Doug & Kit
- Revel
- Starsinger
- Daniel Johnson
- Peter Bijl
- Jenna
- Jannie
- Warpmind de InzanE
- Sigma28 - email username (minus domain name)
- Green Baron
- Ordell
- Brooklyn (Brooklyn Future Tense)
- Gside
- Fire Storm
- rman40 - email username (minus domain name)
- Spike (WD Hayden)
- Wilek Nereus
- Stephanie D Curtin

Recieved empty email from (Please vote via email.):

- Robby

Again, if you haven't voted already, please do so.

IMPORTANT = The voting ends Sunday July 16th at midnight (CR time). We will not accept any votes after midnight. A tally will be posted along with a list of those who voted. I will also post a list of the cut images. I will accept emails for as yet an undetermined length of time concerning appeals on cut images. After which we will not accept any more appeals, requests and votes until the next CR pics update.

*** END TGS CR IMAGES ANNOUNCEMENT ***
Lady Mystic - [<-- VOTE for new CR images!!!!]
Dearborn, MI
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 05:37:41 PM
IP: 1cust15.tnt25.det3.da.uu.net

Charred Mamml Flesh....Well I had grilled jumbo sea scallops but my Dad also BBQ up a mess of ribs. And yes I want my meat well done..thenaks to all those E.Coli scares.

Jackal>>>so you want to be pregnant? Do you also want the bizar cravings, your breast's enlargeing, the emotions,the fact that the baby will be removed by Ceasaring...leaving a scar for life and lactating nipples?

Guys and lesbianism>>>>I'm still wondering why the image of two men making out doesnt turn me or other women on? but with Sevarius jr its like this When he thinks of two women doing spells together, he does a spell himself.

Jessie isnt the only person with a new kitten...finaly picked a name for the lil calico...Charisma, After the actress and since she is so full of it.

Sailormoon recently...hmm it seems that they are keeping the original names of the targets and daimons and the BGM of Neptune and Uranus, and I'm surprised that they didn't cut out the scene where Elsa was feeling the hips and the way the glossed over the Background story of Amara and Michelle.

Tenchi They didnt gloss over the fact that that one princess wanted to marry her half brother?! why is it ok to show incest but not homosexuality on cartoons?

EVERYONE! I want to thank you for your kind words.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, FL, USA
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 04:07:38 PM
IP: user-37kaote.dialup.mindspring.com

Can't talk...lotsa things going on. Robby, you haven't sent an e-mail, and I still don't understand how using some DBZ attacks has hurt the RP beyond repair and made it any less fun. If you find someone who was hurt by my RP post with me fighting 4, please let me know, and I'll make reparations. Same goes for anyone. If I've ruined or made the RP less fun. please let me know by E-mail. Thanks. Anyway, gotta run. Can't stay long.

Later
Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 03:43:58 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Mecord> I don't really see disapproving as being bigoted. You have friends that are homo or bi-sexual but don't seem to mind what they do on their own. I still disagree with you, but I would not call you a bigot.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 03:33:58 PM
IP: dialin-628-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Finally! A day off from work! Now I can return to the things I enjoy.

Wow I missed a lot.

Cyborg> Because I haven�t been around to say ought about it. <how many people here are considered to be 'non- conformists' by others where they live, and why> Generally I�m considered a non-conformist in the sense that I rarely follow the crowd around to do what they�re doing (whatever it is that the crowd does). I�m also called anti-social for the same reason.

Sexuality �debate�> Since no one else will stand in voice against it, I will. I will just say that I am strongly against both homo- and bi- sexuality. Mostly because of my upbringing I guess. But those who are homo- or bi- certainly don�t need my permission. Nor do I shun friends because of their preferences. Knowing about Bronx, Mara, and the others doesn�t change my opinion of them any. I still think they are great people, they just have one aspect about them I tend to frown upon. Chances are there is something about me they wouldn�t like. I do have other friends who are homosexual, though there�s not many here in Logan �happy valley� Utah. If it comes up I simply tell them I disapprove and generally we move on to more relevant subjects. Rarely do we have prolonged debates about it because there is not much we can do to change the mind of the other. So Greg you can shoot me down if you want. :) *switches on his borg adapted personal shield*

XenaTrek>> <Childhood teasing> I hear ya on that one. I didn�t have any disabilities, but I had the handicap of red hair (and freckles of course), hot temper, and a new school every year. Sometimes I felt I had a big sign that said �Please come belittle my pathetic and worthless life until I go over the edge.� That�s the poetic version of the sign anyway. When I was in elementary it was more simplistic. At its peak in the ninth grade I came to the point of pondering some serious and rather final resolutions to my problem. Slowly and without the aid of professional help (I probably needed but I didn�t trust anyone else with my problems) I slowly pulled myself out of the pit of despair and depression. People wonder why I don�t socialize much. I just shake my head and tell them that they would have to experience it to fully understand.

*****RP*****
Thailog entered his office to find an elf sitting in his chair.
�Whoever you are, you have two seconds to convince me not to kill you.�
�I come to offer a treaty.�
�Ah Mecord. We had this discussion before. Now, if you will tell me how you found me I still might let you live.�
�We�ve always known. You are a power in this world and my Guild keeps tabs on powerful people.�
�And has you Thieves Guild come to steal from me?�
�No, to trade power for information.�
�What information could you give me?�
�Other way around. Start by telling me what you know about a large gem with powerful magic.�
�You offer me power? Very humorous.�
�Not offering you more power, just the chance to keep what you have. The Gem?�
�How dare you threaten me!�
�I�ll come back when you�ve calmed down,� The elf disappeared from the office.
*****END RP*****

Mecord
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 03:22:47 PM
IP: usr37.mtwest.net

Sorry for the multiple posts, but for some odd reason, no posts after XenaTrek's are showing when I reload the room.
Cyborg
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 01:36:27 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

...
Anonymous
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 01:34:02 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

For some reason, I can't post to the room.
Cyborg
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 01:32:52 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

You want to know something scary? Now my Dad is reading the room :O

Non- conformity poll update> one goth, one oddball, one who preferes not popularized pastimes, one gifted

G'X'B and Daniel Johnson><No one has the right to be a bigot. Sorry, this a topic I feel very strongly about.> I was just interested in what kind of response they (and I) would get. I have a bad habit, when I am in a good mood I will play Devil's Advocate in the hopes of stimulating conversation. Daniel's responce was very interesting. Actually, my Dad and I discussed your reply for the better part of an hour, so now I have nothing to say :( I hate it when that happens. I wonder how your town develloped such tollerant attitudes, since one doesn't often associate openmindedness with strong religious beliefs. As to why noone posted an opposing opinion: well, you could be right that _Gargoyle_ fans may be more open- minded. Science fiction and fantasy tends to do that to people in my experiance. If they are too shy (or frightend) to, that's too bad. I'm actually still quite upset with myself for not having posted my opinion on a subject last week because I lost my nerve (probably why I brought up this topic in the first place). You are also right when you say that you can't discuss anything when someone's opinion is 'It's just not right' (or something similar)

Jackal> If you want a purity test, just clicky on my name- link. Boy, will you ever get purity tests!
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 01:32:03 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

You want to know something scary? My Dad has decided to read this room :O

Non- conformity poll update> one goth, one oddball, one who prefers not popularized pastimes, one gifted

G'X'B and Daniel Johnson><No one has the right to be a bigot. Sorry, this is a topic that I feel very strongly about.> I was just interested in what kind of response they (and I) would get. I have a bad habit, when I am in a good mood I will play devil's advocate in hopes of stimulating conversation. Daniel's response was very interesting. Actually, my Dad and I discussed your reply for the better part of an hour, so now I have nothing to say :( I really hate when that happens. I wonder how your town developed such tollerant attitudes, since one doesn't often associate openmindedness with strong religous beliefs. As to why noone posted an opposing oppinion, well, you could be right that _Gargoyle_ fans may be more open- minded. Science fiction and fantasy tends to do that to people in my experiance. If they are too shy (or frightend), well that's too bad. I'm actually still quite upset with myself for not posting my opinion on a subject last week because I lost my nerve (probably why I brought this up in the first place).

Jackal> If you want purity tests, just clicky my name link and wow, will you ever find purity tests!
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 12:51:19 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

*Warpmind slinks in, ogles the pics of Aimee Major that CrzyDemona just provided, and pretty much loses any and all amount of conciousness; he just stands there, drooling and grinning sheepishly.*
Nice costume, nice lady... mmmmmmm... :)

Um, I mean... *cough* Just meant to pop in to say I'd be at Sabledrake Hall, except for the fact that I pretty much boicott Yahoo! I am NOT bothering to figure out how to eradicate the account that they forced on me when Yahoo! and Geocities merged, and I'm NOT bothering to open a new one. Pity, really... I'd like to stay at Sabledrake Hall from time to time...

*Ogles the pictures of Aimee Major a bit more, then is washed out the door in a river of drool.*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 12:45:30 PM
IP: mp-217-218-116.daxnet.no

XenaTrek - Utena is about a young girl who wants to be a prince. ;) She is orphaned at a young age and a prince comes to her and gives her a rose crest ring and tells her to be strong. she is so impressed by it that she inspires to become a prince herself. So eventually she ends up in school where the Student Council fights duels for the Rose Bride. Who ever possesses the rose bride will have the power to bring revolution to the world. It is a twisted and awesome show that I highly recommend.

Christine - you are so pure and VIRGINAL! hee hee

Anime Expo - I had a great time... I made a Felica costume for Aimee Major (She is a were kitty from Darkstalkers). If you wanna see it check out these pics:

http://www.geocities.com/demona.geo/ax/jenpose.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/demona.geo/ax/touga.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/demona.geo/ax/pose1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/demona.geo/ax/tourists.jpg

Amusing no? Aimee was just too damn hot in that costume. and I did all that without a pattern. WHEW!
CrzyDemona
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 12:12:16 PM
IP: 209.150.94.79

Not much to say today.

One question, though: at what power levels is one strong enough to destroy islands, asteroids, moons, and planets?

What separates me from the norm: above average intelligence. But being 'gifted' is not all it is cracked up to be.

That is all for now; expect BFTS RP later.
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 10:26:10 AM
IP: max1-43.cwy.cei.net

Todd - I'm sure I will enjoy Season 3, Pendragon was my favorite series in season 2. I hated the combined series of season 2 I liked the storyline and most of the stories, just hated that Pendragon and Gargoyles were combined because we didn't get to see enough of Arthur and company. Excellent points about Morgana. I ussually compare her to Demona not only for the reasons you cited but also because there is actually a brief comparisson between her characterization in "Godess of Winter" and Demona in "The Stone of Destiney".
You're right though she does seem to have more in common with Jon (maybe we should set them up on a date, get `em out of the good guys life for a while :) ). I still prefer her portrayal in "Stone" to "Winter", no offense.

GB - Thanks for the welcome but I have been here before :)

Gside - Actually the sock puppets were GXB's idea, but you're right it does deserve a hoo-hah, in fact double HOO-Hah!!!

And now for what Graymonk would like to see in Pendragon season 3 Deuxieme Partie. I'll try to keep it from becoming quite as long and ...verbose as last time.

Still on the subject of villains I'd like to see Garlon pop in "Pendragon". This guy's one of the architects of, or at least partially for, the fall of Camelot. In the past whenever Garlon showed up in "Penfdragon" he took a back seat to the more serious threats such as Madoc or Sevarius but on his own I think he'd make a good villain, if only to see what Arthur's reaction was. Merlin once said that Garlon killed several of Arthur's knights, would Arthur allow his new knights to fight him, or fearing for their safety try to defeat him solo? Now that we know who the eight Arthurian survivors in TGS are all of them, including this one should become more active in "Pendragon".

Now on tho the good guys,

Arthur - I'd like to see Arthur and Elaine become an item. Don't get me wrong, I like Jennifer Camford, I just like Elaine better. She tends to bring Arthur out of his shell as it were. He tends to act less like the ultimate chivilrous Knight and more like a regular man around her. Again, don't get me wrong, I like it when Arthur is chivilrous and brave but the poor guy never gets to relax. Around Griff, his other knights, Jennifer or any of the supporting cast Arthur is always trying to act confident, calm, and controlled. No good leader wants his followers to see him worry or stressed. The problem is he rarely has any time to blow off steam, let his hair down and just relax, even Superman and Captain America, who's sort of the American King Arthur, have friends and family they can talk to about their problems. Right now the only person he can do that with is Merlin and with Rory and Leba sharing their flat it's rather hard for them to have a heart to heart chat without their two house guest over hearing. I think Elaine would be a good influence on Arthur. Maybe Jennifer can become a knight.

Griff & Briana - Does anyone else think their relationship moved a little to fast? It makes sense that they would become mates so quickly, after all Griff was a foot soldier in a war aginst people who wanted to wipe their race of the map. They had no way of knowing If they would see eachother agian. It's sort of like in WWI & WWII, when couples would get married before one of them went over seas. Now that the war is over though let's see their relationship get a little more attention. I don't want them to break up or anything I just want to see some repurcussions from their hasty marriage than just back room tickling and giggling.

Rory - I'd like to see a reckoning between Rory and Banshee and maybe he could meet Prometheus (or his father could meet Prometheus, one of them should).

Leba, Dulcinea and Kevin - A lttle more development of the Knights' past and personality. Right now the Knights seem like the Trio at the end of "Awakenings", likeable characters whose personalities are promising but haven't been completely flesshed out yet. Why is it Leba is one step removed from homelessness (as "Beginning Again" implied) yet can afford to travel to Ireland to sing in airport lobbies? How does Kevin balance his job with the cab and his adventures with Arthur, does he have any family or friends outside of the Knights? Do they know about his activites? In "Seeds of Change" Dulcinea really managed to calm the cast down after they learned Arthur was wanted from the law, I'd really like to see her evolve into Arthur's second in command among the Knights.

If any new Knights are introduced this season I'd like them not to be humans, unless th its Jennifer Camford. We already have four (five if you count Rory) so how about a little more diversity? How about a magical mutate such as Daht, or a Werewolf, Yeti, New Olympian or a robot. Just no Gargoyles, Griff should be unique.

Werewolves - If they do show up pleas, please, PLEASE don't make them all evil like the Dragons. In "Gargoyles" no species is one 100% good or bad.

Talking Monkeys - Why talking Monkeys? I think the better question is Why not? :)

Robin Canmore and the Director - I'm not suggesting bringing in the entire Bad Guys cast, just these two. With the Director's adversarial relationship with the Illuminati and crimminals it makes sense that he and his first recruit would pop up in "Pendragon" especially this season.

I think that's about it, thanks for this opportunity to contribute Todd.
Graymonk - [Bgray@Upei.ca]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 08:43:32 AM
IP: asy03.dial.upei.ca

Hey room! Long time no 'see'! Been busy at work and my home internet connection doesn't like to remain connected.

Mara and Bronx: >> I've seen you guys online usually before I get disconnected. How do you do that? (Just kidding) Hope school and/or summer break is treating you guys well.

Re: Camp Experience >> I still remember my first and last camping experience. It was in 1985, girl scouts of Halifax, Nova Scotia. First off, our tent didn't get set up properly and second, Mother Nature decided to give us a downpour that night. Amazingly our tent didn't collapsed, but did get very flooded all of us but one girl slept thru it (she was on one of those floating bed thing that you use for the water.... how convient!). That same weekend I had a nasty case of heat stroke. What a weekend!

Re: Childhood Teasing >> Coyote already knows my "life" story about my childhood. There are two things that separate me from the "norm". 1. I have partial facial paralysis from birth (they used a forceps to get a me out of a very small woman). Even after 10 years of reconstructive surgery (late 70's to mid-80's), it better, but not perfect, therefore my speech is a bit distorted and I can't blink my right eye naturally. 2. I have hard-of-hearing... back then I was consider deaf and dumb by both peers and believe it or not adults (teachers and other parents). With the teasing I have received all thru elementary and junior high from people and strangers, I closed myself into isolation, up to the point where I rarely allowed people into my 'space'. It wasn't until I moved to Michigan in 1991, and was introduced to the HS Social Worker/Counselor, that I learned how to open up again, and made a lot of friends at my new school.

I find that people today are still too quick to judge, in fact I was in Winn-Dixie the other day, and as a worker was trying to talk to me, I asked her to speak up since I couldn't hear well, she completely closed herself off from me. She wasn't the only one that day either, the cashier and bagger did the exact same thing. I searched for a manger and told him what happened, and suggested that his employees need to learn how to deal with people with disability and not (actually they should never, ever) closed themselves off when asked (in my case) to speak up.

Although I have been given an opportunity to 'hear 100%' a few years ago, I don't think I would want to correct the disability. People with disability need to be recognized and not pushed under a rug. I applaud Disney's effort to advocate and promote castmembers and guests with disabilities... they spent 2 hours in training on how to approach, treat and communicate to people with a disability. I wish that other companies took the time to get into this practice. As frustrating it is to me to have people close up on me, some negative/unwanted attention such as pity, etc., I am proud to have this uniqueness especially when people are aware of it and do positive things for me.

For those who wonder how much I can hear, I can hear up to 86% with a hearing aid in my right ear (GB, etc., do expect to be walking on the right side of me) in an isolated environment. I don't do well in large crowds and noisy environment. I can not hear anything in my left unless I am paying attention to you (i.e. lip reading).

Coyote, GB >> Sometime this month, I should be hearing from a local trainer this month about the hearing dog, and at the same time, find out about private fundraising. I'll keep you posted on that.

Re: Utena >> Coyote, Mara or GB, could you please tell me again what 'Utena' is about? I know one of you told me, but I seem to have forgotten already.

Star Wars Rumor/News >> Believe it or not, nothing at this moment�, I believe Sev. Jr. has been up to speed on it. Oh yeah! Coyote, remember Draco from Xena? He and about a few dozen New Zealander/Auzzie actors are going to be in it� as either members of the political counsel and the Jedi's in training.

This must be the longest post I have written� whew! Sorry about that.

*gives GB a warm hug and kiss before exiting the room*

XenaTrek - [ellislis@yahoo.com]
Orlando, FL, USA
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 08:27:14 AM
IP: proxy2b.lmco.com

*Warpmind enters, surrounded by his chibis, who are persistently pestering him and everyone in the vicinity for candies.*
Sheesh! They're on a massive sugar rush - beware their sweet tooth, guys!

On an entirely different subject: those of you who remember and miss Pistoff, might be interested in this: he's managed to publish his first Jack Hammer novelette - at MightyWords.com - and I'm just spreading the word here. If you're interested, check it out: I think it was at about $2 or so; you'll figure it out I'm sure...

Zath: Actually, the scene would be more along the lines of the windmill scene in Army of Darkness... "London Bridge is coming down, coming down, coming doooowwwwwnnnn..."

Winterwolf: I agree with you about the three-foot-Pikachu. That one DOES look like a marshmallow. Or maybe a beanbag chair...

Cyborg: Why nobody's posted harshly against homo- or bisexuality? Well... that would qualify as one of the few things that piss me off, dig? ;)

Green Baron: Heh, trust me, I would NEVER suspect your viking comments to be serious. ;) Still, the main reason I try to avoid violent situations is that I just don't want to hurt anyone... unnecessarily. My biggest problem is that I can't always limit the force I put into a punch, or a twist, or anything that might cause damage; particularly when I use technique and not just brute force... I've actually shattered one of those measure-your-strength arcade machines once - the lever that held the punching bag broke. :|

Christine: Oh, you have both versions? Heh, I just have the rewrite - I liked it, but if you say the original is better, well, I guess I'll just have to keep an eye open for it, eh? :) 'Course, being born into a world where the technological advances are coming as rapidly as they do, I'm likely to prefer the rewrite, I fear...

Not many replies to make today, it seems... well, gotta run. See ya.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 06:06:51 AM
IP: mp-217-218-101.daxnet.no

Gside : Dammit , I knew there was a mistake in their . You are of course quite right , the one thing I know of that's actually better than duct tape is an actual electrostatic bond , basically making it a part of the surface it's being placed on . hmmm . (runs to the patent office)
Rolling Calf
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 02:38:35 AM
IP: 208.244.41.207

Zath> <<any vote I sent in would just be a group of completely random selections serving no purpose>>: But you can help by voting for the pictures that would be most aesthetically pleasing next to large blocks of other people's text.
<>: But it did get you to come back for a visit, right?

Todd Jensen> Pendragon predictions: They'll find a couple more treasures, perhaps putting their mystical properties to good use. There will also most likely be some cleaning up of the flotsam and jetsam of the Unseelie War. To come up with anything else, I'd have to reread the seasons.

Graymonk> sock puppets: Hoo yah.

Rolling Calf> <<masking tape>>: There is no substitute for duct tape, though a case could be made for electrical tape.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 02:21:43 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

*Jessie pokes her head in*

Wow, where'd all the queers come from? LOL...Actually I'm not surprised one bit that they are at least this many of us in the Garg fandom, it just seems overwhelming when, like, five people post practically on top of one another stating their orientation. And I do agree that it is easier in our society for a woman to explore her sexual orientation that for men; unfortunately that is a result of long conditioning through societal pressure to be "a real man." It's one of those things that seems to be breaking down, though, slowly. Well, good luck to all my queer cuties in the house, especially those who are recently out; remember, society may try and define you with a label, but the only thing you have to be is YOU. :D

Car & Kitten > The car is great; the kitten is even better, even though if I had to describe her in one word it would be PSYCHO. She's a black cat (only a tiny path of white fur on her belly) and I would guess between 4 and 6 weeks old (got her from a shelter). Her name is either KC or Casey, haven't decided on the spelling yet. She has a tendancy to climb up my legs when I am wearing shorts, so I've got millions of little kitty scratches. She sat quietly and watched Gargoyles with me last night, though, so I know she's got good taste. :)

Okay, finally, is anyone planning to go to the Gathering that hasn't registered yet? My friend from up here was planning on coming with me, and he has his registration and dinner paid for, but now he can't come. They were purchased before the rates went up, so if you are waiting until the last minute, you might wanna save some bucks and buy his registration from him. E-mail me if you are interested.
Jessie Feff - [feff@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 01:42:30 AM
IP: ctrts1-5.mrs.umn.edu

* Rolling Calf enters pulling a large briefcase behind him and surveys the room until he eyes DC . He then walks across to him and swings the briefcase into his head dazeing him . Rolling Calf then proceeds roll up his sleaves , put on a pair of goggles and set up a tray with masking tape , embalming equipment , a drill , , a bottle of water labeled "tongue" unmarked bottles of fluids of different coulours and a candle which he lights . He then sets up a metal pole on which a large plastic circle is supporetd, on which he sets up plastic shower curtains that surround the two of them . A few moments later a single scream is heard followed by the sound of muffled moaning and the curtains show signs of a great deal of thrashing and convulsing within . After a few minutes Rolling calf exits , cleans his hands with a towel and closes the curtains behind him .)

I must say that felt particularly good , my ISP has been giving me trouble by not accepting my authorisation for the past few days and so I've had to play catchup , and the way this place fills up faster than an empty cup at the bottom of the sea , it's always misery .

Man , some heavy stuff has gone on in here in my relatively short absence .

Jackal : Chiffon ??? That's one of the more unusual names I've ever heard for a child but that's probably because that's a brand name of butter down here .

Non Heterosexuals - The sheer number of you in here kinda took me by suprise I gotta say . Personally I have nothing against people of different sexual preference which I consider strange since I live in one of the most homophobic countries on Earth . You folks are people and deserved to be treated as such despite what those who are unable to accept it believe . I'm glad that you've all come to term with it , and I hope you are able to deal with the discrimination that you will likely be exposed too and if you're not strong enough on your own , you know where to come to for support and encouragement , that's one of the things I like most about this room . But remember to watch out for yourselves , and I'm deadly serious about that .

Darwin Awards - I heard of a guy a couple of years ago who got his jollies walking into the middle of the road and mooning oncomming vehicles , I think he normally did it in one neighbourhood . Now one day a man is driving along at a roughly sixty miles an hour , he looks down to adjust his radio , and I'm sure you do'nt need me to tell you what happened . The idiot got a hood ornament up his @$$ and his hips fused with his rib cage .

Coyote : I'm sorry that kind of thing happened to you man , I understand the anger (hell of an understatement there) and the pain that can result from an experience like that . Those experiences are never forgotten but the pain grows less over time , some take longer than others but you've got a good lady to support you , guaranteed to hurry it along .

G 'X' B : A person is only a bigot if they try to press their beliefs on others or if they believe themselves superior because of their beliefs . Uh . . . but that's just my opinion . :)

Well folks , sleep well . Oh , and a Happy belated 4th of July .
Rolling Calf
JamaicaWednesday, July 5, 2000 01:01:26 AM
IP: 208.244.41.207

Winterwolf- You're right, and I agree with you. Like you said, maybe it's just the way I deal with it..

<<try to keep the hallucinations down to a minimum>>
WHY?!?! That's half the fun! ;o)

Christine- WTF?!?! ::gasps:: Is that al... wha.. huh?!? ::runs to weep in the corner::

Speakin of purity tests, where are sum at? I love those things!!
I just wanted to tell yall, I know you don't care but- I got al dog tag made today that says, "I am your sex puppy" YaY for me!!! okies... bye...
jacKal
Wednesday, July 5, 2000 12:37:23 AM
IP: aca44138.ipt.aol.com

Happy 4th. I hope your day has been interesting. I know mine has. Well I don't have much to say so I'll be going now.

Winterwolf> I will be online in a couple of hours. You will probably be asleep, but I will e-mail you as soon as I get back.

Bye all.
Janine - [Purple_Pixy@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 11:37:21 PM
IP: phx-238.treknet.net

Yay, the room wiped. Reloading was becoming a pain.

Jessie:
A car and a kitten, huh? Congratulations. Of course that also means car insurance and cat litter. :)
----
::Waves to the anonymous number ten::
----
Charred mammal flesh:
I agree with Zath. I never understood why some people feel the need to turn perfectly good meat into lumps of charcoal. Bleh. Give me medium rare any day; that way it's cooked but not burnt.
----
Todd:
I'll have to give the Pendragon question some thought, although I like much of what Graymonk said. Good point about Morgana. I hadn't thought of that.
----
GXB:
Sock puppets? Really? You wouldn't joke about something like sock puppets, would you? It would be so cruel to get our hopes up like that. Next thing you'll be telling us is that Arthur and Griff will be forced by a ferocious storm to spend the night in Castle Anthrax.
----
Cyborg:
Yes, you are bad. :P I think I'd be disappointed if no one picked that one up; it was just so obvious. :)

As to why no one has posted a counter-opinion: I'd like to think that as Gargoyles fans we tend to be more open-minded. Of course, it may simply be that those who are opposed are too intimidated to comment. GXB is right: such a post would provoke an immediate response from several people, including myself. I can tolerate almost anything, but not prejudice. It's one of the things that truly makes me angry, since it's so senseless.

"Don't they have a right to their opinions too?" Certainly, but it depends on how they express those opinions. I have no problem with a thoughtful and reasoned explanation for their belief. Unfortunately, I've rarely seen such people respond in a thoughtful or reasonable manner on this subject. Their argument usually comes down to saying that it's wrong to be homosexual because homosexuality is wrong. How can that be debated? I don't object to such opinions, but I do object to trying to force that opinion on others.

Incidently, that got me thinking about something. My town is inextricably linked with religion; it was founded as a Methodist seaside retreat over a hundred years ago, and the town is still technically owned by the Camp Meeting Association, which is strongly connected to the church. As recently as the 1970's life here was governed by the "blue laws", a set of religion inspired rules of behavior. The most famous of these was the "no cars on Sunday" rule, but there were many others. In fact, in order to buy a house here, you had to have a letter of recommendation from your hometown minister. A Protestant minister. Other groups need not apply. All of that was struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. Why am I rambling about this? Today, as you stroll down the tree lined streets, admiring the architecture of the Victorian homes, you will see a number of rainbow flags prominently displayed. Several business owners are openly gay or lesbian. And no one seems to bat an eye. I just find that interesting.
----

Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 11:14:43 PM
IP: ppp-02.rb5.exit109.com

Cyborg> No one has the right to be a bigot.

Sorry, this is a topic that I feel very strongly about.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 11:04:33 PM
IP: dialin-379-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

New on my site --
4 pics in the Gallery, by Aurora, Dirce, and Graymonk.
A link to the July issue of Sabledrake Magazine (we'll fix the cover blooper; Tim couldn't read it and I wasn't here).
Added "Battle of the Sexpots," previously only available on the Adult site.
Find it all from http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html, or click.

Green Baron > LOL, don't tell them that! I'm sure that the life my readers imagine I must live, like the appearance they imagine I must have, is a lot more fun than the reality! I've got a reputation to uphold here, and if everybody finds out that at the age of 33 I have been with only two men, it could ruin my credibility! ; )

Warpmind > I have both versions of Demon Seed ... I think the original was better, before he jazzed it up with all the pop-culture references and such. Hardly the same story at all, really.

Christine
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 10:54:49 PM
IP: 15-127.009.popsite.net

Green Baron><poll> I'm just wondering how many people here are considered to be 'non- conformists' by others where they live, and why. As one, I know that it can cause problems (such as G'X'B was having with the job and his hair).
<Why woudl anyone object to someone's orientation.> I don't know why, that's why I was wondering why noone had posted such an opinion. Whether you understand it or not, you know that people do. In the same post, your response to SadowRider had as base that the Vatican objects. <objections towards sexual activity> Sexual activity is an assumed part of orientation (at least as I understand it) and I was looking for a different word since my posts of late have been _interesting_ and the phantom eight year- old gave me a kick in the shins.
<I'll do a full shave before I meet you, too> Carefull, you might turn a girl's head with talk like that ;)

Rodlox and G'X'B><shoot them down.> Just for conversations' sake, don't they have a right to their opinions too? Besides, if it did not turn into a flame war, it might make an interesting discussion.

*Cyborg sticks around to see if she is going to be tar- and- feathered*
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 09:47:30 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Hmm!! One day, I'll rememebr to always use my Archmage pic unless new pics come in :)

Archwolf> I had a girlfriend who tried to take my virginity, and was upset when I wouldn't have sex with her.

SOROW> Well, that is a fitting day.

Shinigami> <<Do people question the heterosexuality of a virgin?>> That happened to me, actually.

Fire Storm> <<I got a question for ya all: If someone thinks violent thoughts, writes violent thoughts, but does not act out violent thoughts (Quite the contrary, the person is very caring), should that person be considered a violent person? >>
Replace violence with sex and it would surprise many that Christine Morgan has a score of 70 on a purity test.

Niamhgold> Well, the cow bit was more a slam at Rosie O'Donnell, inspired by Sevarius Jr.

SJ> Well, Freud stated that eevryone was born bisexual but became homosexual or heterosxual due to their external circumstances or something like that. Personally, I think that is a lot of manure, and about as credible as the recent whinings of the ACLU.

Jessie> How's your kitten?

Wilek> I thought you might also go after Paul Nathans. Didn't Miriam beat the hell out of Crackers?

Charred mammal flesh> Give me rare or give me salad!!

Shadowrider> Well, you may know more about it, but from what I heard the Vatican just wants it postponed or rerouted around Vatican City. I am disturbed by the Parade Director's (Imma Battaglia) attitude toward the Pope and her reason for picking Rome (which I heard was to basically stick the middle finger at the Vatican). I imagine you may know more about it, but that's all I know. Personally I have no problem with such an eevnt, but I knwo soem in it are militants and they may wish to go through Vatican City and cause trouble like how its equivaent in NYC has vandalized St. Patrick's Cathedral. It's the militants who have undoubtedly promoted more homophobia through their own hateful actions. I also don't understand why Rome, when I would think Paris or London would be a better choice.

Confession> Well, I'm heterosexual, and now I feel left out because I am :), but I have some English blood, so I doubt I'm 100% hetero :)

Zath> Sadly, I might not be able to make G01.

Warpmind> I'm joking. Besides, I'm part Danish so half my squarehead & Viking jokes apply to me too. I guess I won't ask you about ramming people with your long boat then :p

Graymonk> Welcoem to TGS CR.

Todd> I can't wait for Pednragon stuff. If I take a course on Arthurian Legends, I won't buy any books, I'll just e-mail you :)

Cyborg> What's this poll?
I'll do a full shave before I meet you, too :)

<>
Why woudl anyone object to someone's orientation. I can understand objections towards sexual activity, but not towards orientation.

Bronx> I'll be waiting ::kisses::

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 09:16:08 PM
IP: proxy1-external.elmwd1.la.home.com

Happy 4th all!
::smiles:: Y'know.. I was ready to close the door to this place forever. Thanks for the support everyone.

Wilek/GB- > <<Maybe Bronx has a top ten for us about how Tim Burton will alter Planet of the Apes.>> Hehe wouldnt you like to know? Keep your eyes peeled guys ::winks::

Shadorider> <<BTW, do you say "straight" to mean hetero? I don't know why, but I don't like it so much...does it mean that non-heteros are "bent"?>> It might mean that for some people, but I tend to call people who are attracted to the opposite straight. Then, for me I just call myself bi.

hmmm... ::remembers:: Oh yeah! More post later, I have to vote for the CR pics! laters =)

Bronx - [BronxWyvern4@aol.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 08:44:31 PM
IP: spider-wi053.proxy.aol.com

Rodlox> Probably? I'd definetly shoot them down.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 08:11:21 PM
IP: dialin-379-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Cyborg: <>

well, for one thing, they'd probably be shot (down).

Rodlox
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 08:07:03 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

GRAYMONK - Thanks for your reply. We hope that you will enjoy this season of "Pendragon" and find it (more or less) matches your expectations.

While I can't say anything about what we will be doing or not be doing with the rogues' gallery (or other characters in "Pendragon") in Season Three, I thought that I would make one comment on Morgana that had occurred to me for some time.

Graymonk's comparison of her to Demona is apropos, but in one sense, the Gargoyles villain whom Morgana resembles even more (from the point of view of development) might very well be Jon Canmore/Castaway.

Morgana, Demona, and Jon Canmore all start off their careers as antagonists with a major family tragedy. Demona's clan is massacred by the Vikings. Morgana's father is slain by Uther Pendragon's men and her mother forced to wed Uther in the aftermath. Jon and his older siblings lose their father when Demona kills him in Paris. But where the tragedies are concerned, Morgana's more closely resembles Jon's than Demona's. Both Morgana and Jon are children when their fathers are killed; Demona is an adult when her clan is destroyed. Demona is partly responsible for the slaughter of her clan; Morgana and Jon are not even partly responsible for the deaths of their fathers. Demona immediately undergoes her suppressed guilt then with the "What have I - what have they done to you?" statement; but Morgana and Jon do not undergo it at the time of their childhood tragedies. That waits until later on when they are adults - for Morgana, when her initial scheming against Arthur gets Accolon and Morfydd killed, for Jon Canmore, when his vendetta against the gargoyles gets Jason Canmore paralyzed from the waist down.

Admittedly, it's easier to compare Morgana to Demona since both are female and both are sorceresses. But in terms of development, Morgana is more like Castaway than she is like Demona.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 07:01:00 PM
IP: 216.87.46.129.dialup-stl.primary.net

Something fun my Dad said today, thought I'd share it (I think you'll like this especially, Jackal): Cops are not chosen for their intelligence- so don't confuse them.

Spacebabie><so if you have kids please get a nanny cam> I'm sorry to hear that you had such a traumatic experiance. People like that should be... well lets just say they should have something as horrible as what they did (from their victim's point of view) done to them. It is good that you had such a good time with your second babysitter. I have to admit, I find that bit of paranoia is not a good thing. When I was twelve, I was trained as a Mother's Helper (think babysitter/cleaning lady in one that is also around when the parents are). When I got older, and learnt about Nannies who abuse the kids, and especially those nanny cams, I became very worried for myself, always looking over my shoulder, not because I had done anything wrong, but because I was afraid it would look that way if I comforted a child who had a scraped knee or a nightmare, or if I were to dicipline them. I had alot of problems with the children because of that.

Daniel Johnson(re: guys and lesbians)><it's at a lower level> That's obvious, *giggles like the schoolgirl she once was* and of course you have to admit to it since it is too hard to hide. (Yes, I know I'm bad)

Sevarius Jr.><so this is like 4 people who have "come out" in the last....hell, it seems like 5 minutes.> I didn't really 'come out'. I have never hidden the fact I'm bi (hard to do), except around my mom (she is really closed minded), and I just havn't gotten around to telling my Dad (he's oblivious).
I never came out of my shell (in RL at least), but I guess since girls are easier to get closer to, I get attracted to them more. I've always seen myself as a small weakling, so you big strong guys can be intimidating if you get too close too soon. Though having a strong protector... Besides which, it is nice to be able to kiss without being scratched by beard stubble.

About one's sexuality> I wonder why no one has posted an opinion against homo- or bisexual orientations yet.

Non- conformity poll update>one goth, one oddball, one who prefers not popularized pastimes

GreyMonk>Welcome back.

*Cyborg wonders if she should be singing DPH's _It's A Long Post After All_*
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 06:34:08 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

A few additions:

Since we are all sharing I should share too. I'm heterosexual. I don't have a problem with anyone's sexual preference.

Zath> <sleep cycles> Oh okay. Still try to keep the hallucinations down to a minimum or maybe that was something that only happened to me.

Jackal> <get it all> It is great to give. Give me more :D

Happy Fouth!

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@wildmail.com]
Bronx, NY
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 02:57:49 PM
IP: nas-27-213.nyc.navipath.net

**Winterwolf enters holding a sparkler.**

Happy Fourth of July! Let me see what's going on it in here.

Daniel x2> I don't see it. There are some similarities but that is only on the surface. I think what happens sometimes is that we can be in such a rush to post that these little details can trip us up and we make mistakes.

Jenna> It's disturbing to hear how some people act. I'm glad that it's over and that you won't have to deal with her anymore. Hopefully she will mature in time.

Airwalker> Welcome back! Besides being tired how did you enjoy your vacation? I'm interested in all the details you are willing to give. I have yet to make a trip out of the US.

Shadowrider> <Diablo II> I'll be sure to give you all the good stuff when I see you online. :) <visiting Italy> I'll be sure to let you know in advance. It will be after your military service unless you don't have to go. <What have I been up to?> Monday: I went in to work only to receive an email saying that I didn't have to go to work on Monday. I wound up staying to finish some things I was working on. On the plus side now I have a bonus vacation day. So it all works out. Last night I was online and spent way too much time playing Diablo II. I was getting ready to post last night but my eyes were so tired I went to take a brief nap and went right to sleep. Sunday: I spent most of the day shopping. Saturday: I went upstate to hang out with friends. I had a great time. I'm not sure what I'm doing today yet, but I'm sure I'll have a good time. ^_^

Warpmind> Ahh! Most of the time I encounter the large three foot Pikachu. That's the one I was thinking about when I said big yellow marshmallow. :) On the other hand you also have five fingers. Sorry just had to say something silly. Seriously though, Meowth looks great no matter what the size. Plus he is one of the most interesting pokemon. ;)

Mary Flanders> I applaud your courage and I don't have any problem with the way you feel. You are who you are. I'm happy that you can accept that and find others who accept you.

Mary Flanders, Shinigami, Kitainia, Bronx, Cyborg and Lawrence> I'm feeling a very positive atmosphere here in the CR right now. :) It is good to see that each of you can share your feelings. I feel honesty is very important so I think being true to your self is wonderful and it is great that you feel able to share that with your friends here. Hugs and warm wishes to each of you. :)

Spacebabie> <abuse> Hopefully sharing your pain helps you feel a little better. It is terrible when someone hurts you. :(

Coyote> <teasing> Kids can be especially cruel. I was overweight myself in my earlier days so I understand what you are talking about. Moving on to the better times, for the most part it ended after I played hockey. I managed to take down plenty of other players gaining their respect. I guess they realized I was a strong guy and could probably beat then up. **shrug** I'm normally fairly cool headed and I've never gotten into a fight before. Or maybe they just matured.

Jackal> In my opinion thinking it (abuse) happens to everyone is dangerous. No one should have to go through physical or mental abuse. It is a common thing but that doesn't make it right. I figure it's your way of protecting yourself from those feelings of hurt. My concern is that you could also use it as an excuse to hurt another without even realizing it. It can be very dangerous to rationalize that way things are. Now I'm not accusing you of anything or trying to say anything bad about you. I'm just stating what I feel might be a problem in your belief. You probably didn't mean it the way I interpreted it but I just wanted to respond to be sure. Still hoping things get better for you.

Robby> I had a feeling it might be you, but since I wasn't positive... Well you know what I did. Bravo Robby!
Hmm... I can't seem to get into the CR. I'll probably need to add more after this.

Niamhgold> <Lake George> I had a great time. Thanks for asking. <Diablo II> Winterwolf would have to be a Barbarian. It just goes with the name. ;) <leisure stuff> Not a problem. You'll have it ready when it is ready! ;) I just tend to keep myself busy most of the time. You know?

Janine> Mean nasty trick MSN played on us. I'll catch up with you later. ^_^

SOROW> Having fun on the fourth I hope! ;)

Gside> <Diablo II> Open characters are not a problem. <more Diablo stuff> You've given me some interesting tidbits to check out now.

Wilek> <British town names> Something I'll have to look at! <plushie Machoke> I haven't seen one but maybe. :)

******CR PICTURE VOTE******

<Fire Storm and Lady Mystic> <CR picture votes>Here are my votes posted.

Originals & New Replacements

Cavall 2
Goliath and Elisa 2
Sata and Brooklyn 2
Sharon Nimura 2

New Single Versions

Angela & Broadway
Ariana in Formal Attire
Coldstone, Coldfire, & Alex
Desdemona & Othello
Fushcia
Iago
Thailog
Thersites

New Multiple Versions

Cornelia 1 & 3
Harthoth 2
Kemuri-Kazan 2
Prince Malcom 2

Originals & Altered Versions

Graeme 2
Nudnik 1
Sata 1 & 2

Cleaned-Up Originals

Angela
Asrial
Brianna
Broadway
Bronx
Brooklyn (Timedancer)
Brooklyn's Family
Caspian
Human Demona
Human Lexington
Lucy & Gargbeast
MacBeth
Madoc (Full Shot)
Maeve (Full Shot)
Owen Burnett
Puck
Rory
Sailor Ariana
Teen Goliath
Weird Sisters

Questions & Comments

Hopefully this is easy enough to read. In general for the majority of pictures I picked the ones I thought looked the best. There are a few that I absolutely want to see. They are: (listed in section order) Goliath and Elisa 2 Sata and Brooklyn 2. Both of couple pictures look great. Thersites I cleaned him up myself. I love this graphic and would use him as my primary posting picture. Cornelia 1 & 3 I like both. Harthoth 2 I'd pick the first one except then I can't see his mouth. Kemuri-Kazan 2 I think the second one has more detail than the first even though it is cropped. Sata 1 & 2 I don't think having both is needed. I love the pick but I'm not sure if I prefer 1 or 2.

******END CR PICTURE VOTE******

Fire Storm> You already got it? Oops! Well at least others can see if they want to. :)

DPH> Oh yeah make me look like a bad guy for writing this up! Just kidding! ;)

******WARNING BFTS - RP******

Winterwolf found some doughnuts in the refrigerator. He looked at each one left in the box until he found a Boston Creme and ate it. He grabbed a few other items, brought them to the table, sat down and finished his breakfast. After he cleaned up, Winterwolf walked around inside the house and found DPH. He asked, "When should I head out to find SOS?"

**Meanwhile**

With the information that NCA had he was in the process of designing a special technology that would render all of his enemies powerless. He chuckled to himself. He felt another powerful presence in the room and turned to see a large gargoyle standing in his workshop. No, it wasn't a gargoyle, it was a grendel. Excellent he would test his creation right now. "I don't know who you are but you've made the biggest mistake of your life."

The tall figure yawns. "The name is Rodlox and I suggest you put the weapon down or I might have to hurt you."

NCA fires his weapon and he watches in disbelief as it passes through the target.

"You are pathetic! You have so much power but you don't know how to use it. Observe you master." With that the Rodlox fires an intense beam of magic at NCA. The beam passes through his shield as if it didn't exist and shatters all the bone in NCA's left arm.

NCA screams and falls to his knees. The magic bonds to the bone and prevents the arm from healing. NCA looks up at the intruder.

"What's it like living in fear? I'll just take this weapon you were working on it might be useful. The next time we meet I will be ready to extract every last bit of your power. Enjoy your existence until then." With that Rodlox leaves.

**Much later in a secure location filled with electronics**

DC beamed "It worked according to your plan! We each gave NCA a portion of our power and he gave us a greater portion of his own power in order to restore his arm and unlock his powers."

"Excellent. We must continue with the Rodlox farce so that NCA will be kept off guard of our activities."

******END WARNING BFTS - RP******

I'll be watching fireworks later tonight! Bye!

**Winterwolf puts out his sparkler before leaving.**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 02:46:45 PM
IP: nas-27-213.nyc.navipath.net

Hmm. No BFTS RP today in honor of Independence Day.

By the way, I voted a few days ago for a pic. Did my vote get counted? Daniel Johnson, just don't choose the same picture I use. I don't mind guns for self-defense and hunting but beyond that I won't comment.

Christine - 3rd shift is for sound sleepers. I jokingly once told my dad that if he leaves the door unlocked while I am sleeping, I won't hear the shot that kills me.
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 02:12:57 PM
IP: max1-27.cwy.cei.net

Green Baron> Yes I still have the pony tail.

Todd> I want to see killer bunny rabbits in this season of "Pendragon", and instead of illustrating the scenes with art, we should photograph sock puppets that are made to look like the characters ;)

Actually everyone here knows I'm on staff and thus knows what's coming. Be ready for the sock puppets.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 01:17:51 PM
IP: dialin-674-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Warpmind> <<the results would be rather... ugly. It could best be compared to two regular ants versus a very big foot>> *LOL* For some reason the image that comes to mind is two little tiny versions of you, wearing cheesy red plastic devil horns waving match-sticks like clubs trying to look menacing and running around in fast-forward, suddenly getting squashed by the Monty Python foot, complete with the usual sound effects. : )
Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 12:28:34 PM
IP: ns8-04.viptx.net

ARRRG! I meant to say that Duval believes the ends justifies the means! Again I say ARRRG! Also, apologies for the run on sentance in the Morgana section and of course the duble posting.
Graymonk
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 11:30:41 AM
IP: asy01.dial.upei.ca

Todd - What would I like to see in Pendragon season 3? Well right off the bat I'll tell you what I wouldn't like to see - The Connection turns out to be Darien Montrose or William Powell. It would be incredibly anti-climatic. If the Connection is someone we've seen before I hope She/he is someone we'd never suspect. If the Connection is someone new as long as he/she isn't some guy in a bussiness suit I'll be happy with how the storyline wraps up.

Now that that unpleasantness is over the first thing I'd like to see is Arthur's rogues gallery become better developed. Greg once rambled "Each villain needs to make us feel, at least in that individual story, that he or she is the ultimate nemesis is. This is accomplished not simply with opposition, but by juxtaposing similarities and contrasting them with opposition." TGS has already suceeded in creating marvelous reverse heros for their other spin-off shows (Harthoth and Payne are reverse Brooklyns, Atlanta a reverse Asrial, Roland reverse Thersites and Asrial, Lord Ravyn is a reverse Prince Malcom etc.) Arthur deserves to at least one. So far He has three enemies who could potentially be developed into reverse heros:

Morgana - At first I didn't like TGS' depiction of Morgana. She seemed too much like a human Demona. Then I read "The Stone of Destiney" which had a slightly different take on the character than "The Godess of Winter", her first appearance and I realized(sp?) what a great villain she could be. Arthur is a man out of time. He has awakened some fifteen hundred years after his birth in a world that is very different from the one he knew. While he seems to have dealt with the lose of camelot and the death of his old friends he has had some trouble adjusting to this new world. Morgana is like wise a person out of time but because she was alive to see the changes to the world she can easily pass herself off as one of us. Like Arthur her family and friends are gone and she seems to have fooled herself into thinking that she has dealt with her grief but she hasn't. Like Demona she blames Arthur for deeds he is not responsible for but unlike Demona her guilt hasn't led her to hate Arthur (at least according to "Stone") but rather to fear him. Because of her guilt she believes he destroyed her old life and as Arthur has built a new life for himself she has created a new life for herself in the form of Morgana Cornish but she's afraid he'll take this life away from her so she's reluctantly decided to make a pre-emptive strike and kill him. Ironically if anything ruind her new identity it will be Morgana and her fear. If the TGS cast keep Morgana in her marvelous "Stone of Destiney" characterization and not revert to her Demona-esque interpretation in "Godess of Winter" they will sonn have a villain as three-dimensional, intriguing and engaging as any adversary from the cannon series.

The Illuminati - The reverse of Arthur, Camelot and the original knights of the round table. Duval (Arthur) is "king" of the human world (Camelot) through the Illuminati (The Knights of the Roundtable, Arthur's Lords and vasals). Just as Arthur tried to use his power as king to do what was best for his subjects Duval uses the Illuminati to do what he feels is best for the people of the world. What seperates Arthur from Duval is that Duval belives that the means justify the ends. It doesn't matter matter if you resort to black mail, torture, murder, brainwashing as long as the result is benificial, benificial meaning it benifits the Illuminati. Just as Xanatos is "the ultimate modern stand-in for human amorality" as opposed to Goliath being "the ultimate medieval bastion for gargoyle morality" the legendary Arthur and his court were the ultimate embodiment for the ideal of the state using its power to benifit everyone Duval and his Illuminati are the ultimate embodiment of the state being corrupted by its power. All the Illuminati need to become a true reverse version of King Arthur's court is to become a physical threat. So far in "Pendragon" the Illuminati have resorted to conventional fire arms, tranquilizers, a old suit of medieval armour and possibly electrified nets. Arthur and his knights were formidible warriors with access to magic and weapons powerful weapons like Excalibur. With their resources the Illuminati should have access to advanced weapons like robots, non projectile blasters ala "Deadly Force", Exo-suits like Xanatos' Red gargoyle armour or Demona's armour in "The Reckoning" or the Hunters' battle suits from "Hunter's Moon Part Three". I realize the Illuminati's main power lies in their ability to manipulate the system for their own ends but Arthur and his new knights opperate outside of the human system so the Illuminati's threat to them from that area is greatly diminished. Besides Duval has been around for the last 1500 years. He knows that there are creatures out there that neither human laws nor conventional weapons can stop, it only makes sense that he would have his people researching more exotic armaments. At the very least in the aftermath of the Unsilee War the Illuminati should be trying to find effective ways to kill non-humans in case something like that happens again.

Finally, the Minions - Arthur has gathered a group of virtous people, most of them average humans to help him defend the innocent under the guise of being employees at his private investigation firm. Lucius has gathered the dregs of society to help him destroy that society, under the guise of being a street gang. Arthur is aided by Merlin's magic, Lucius is aided by Grimalkin's magic. Just as the Illuminati are the anti-legendary knights the minions are the antithesis of Arthur's modern knights. Lucius strikes me as the sort of meglomaniac who, after losing his master, would try to become a master in his own right. I'd like to see Lucius and the remaining Minions become a recurring threat to the Arthur and his knights the way Dracon or the Pack were recurring threats to Goliath and his clasn. Besides Lucius' mysterious past always interested me and I'd like to see it explored in more detail.

Sorry if the above post was confusing, I tend to ramble when writing about something I've given a lot of thought to. There is mpre I'd like to see done in Pendragon but I have to get ready for work. I'l post the rest of my requests later. `Bye!
Graymonk - [bgray@upei.ca]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 11:24:24 AM
IP: asy01.dial.upei.ca

*Warpmind enters, scratching his chin.*
Well, I've got something of a bout of indecision... I have finally written my first complete Call of Cthulhu investigation, actually intended for a campaign I am working on (around the world even), and I am seriously considering putting this first investigation up on the web (modified to standalone), to see how it is recieved... but if I do so, there's the risk of someone nicking it... so, if anyone here would care to betatest the investigation for the Call of Cthulhu RPG, let me know, and I'll make it available. If not, it shall remain in utter secrecy until the entire campaign is finished...

Hyperion: Nice, funny transcript. Uh... better luck next time? :)

*WARNING: POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE AND POLITICALLY INCORRECT*
The Bisexuality Debate: In my eyes, this is really not a concern for a full-blown debate anyway. Sure, it takes a fair bit of courage to come out of the closet, so to speak, but, when you think about it, it *is* kind of stupid. The courage bit, that is, not being bisexual. Why on earth should one be ashamed of one's preference? Me, I'm strictly heterosexual, and the very thought of actually having sex with another male does repulse me, BUT, I have no problem with others being attracted to the same sex. Heck, if a man tried to pick me up, chances are I'd be flattered (but I'd still be quite clear about the reason for turning him down). I was once asked by a friend, upon his revelation of him being homosexual, "do you mind?" My response, which surprised him a fair bit, was "Do I mind? Do I *care* is a better question." I keep an open mind, and I try to preach that whenever possible, for I have seen too much grief come from a lack of acceptance. (My mother's cousin is gay, and parts of the family has completely written him off, but fortunately, my mother and he are still close.) So, here's to Free Choice and Acceptance! *Raises a glass of 12-years-old Chivas Regal.* To each his/her own, whatever that choice may be. Cheers.
*POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE MATERIAL OVER*

Christine: Now you're talking; while we're just about rarely in control, we all oughtta own up to our fumbles, right? :) Ever read Dean Koontz' book Demon Seed? ;) Oh, and as for the Temple of Talopea thing, well, isn't part of the point that you should take pleasure in your body? After all, if the High Priestess was unhappy or uncomfortable with her body, wouldn't that render her unfit? :|

Jackal: You miss having hair? Tsk... *Removes his hat to reveal a 1/8" layer of hair.* I quite enjoy such a light hairdo - I'd shave it, but that feels *really* weird when I put my hat on. :)

Archwolf: You're up for a tech trade? Excellent; if you're interested, I might send you the specs for the atmosphere/gravitational cockpit stabilizer. It's an excellent design; no need for the helmet, so I can lean back with a cup of coffee or one of my cigars whenever I like. :)

Green Baron: Helmet? Pillage? Um, while I am of Viking descent, I'll have to say no... as I said, I'm a rather non-violent man. If you read my previous post carefully, does it say anywhere that *I* was the one who caused that jerk's cranial fracture? Really, he said himself that he tripped in the staircase and hit his head on the metal railing... funny thing is, nobody believed him at the time... :) Still, he said he tripped because he was dizzy after I conked him, so the concussion might have been my fault... :|

Gside: Thanks, bud. I forgot their frequency... if nothing else about them impressed me, that did... ;)

Wilek: Now, as much as I like your clocktower idea, I deem it a bit difficult to implement, especially if we are going to have total visual coverage of the whole place... besides, I figure we'd need at least four or five sub-basements. ]:) As soon as I get access to a scanner, I'll send you the sketches I made for the lowest sub-basement, 'kay? :)

Shadowrider: Did I find the TIE? Did I ever... your knack for cleaning is impressive; not a speck of dust anywhere. :) As for the data recorders, they were offline when we shipped the Predator off, so you must have messed with them... but the way Kruger's stuck to the analysis machine is amazing; I'll be VERY interested in seeing his final report. ;)

Zath: If my ego and my id were to gang up on my self-irony, the results would be rather... ugly. It could best be compared to two regular ants versus a very big foot.

Well, that's about it for now. Happy ID4, all you US citizens out there. :) And stay in good health, y'all hear? ;)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 08:06:46 AM
IP: mp-217-200-155.daxnet.no

Happy Independence Day, everybody!

Since "Timedancer" is now over, I'll give some general indication of what's up next. Our current plan is to next release "Pendragon", beginning most likely in early August after the Gathering (so as to give us a bit more time to edit it and finish up Breakdowns and Writing for "Gargoyles" - sorry about the long delay on this one, but we've had a lot of problems with this cycle due to staff shortages). More details about its scheduling will become available as we work them out.

Just for the fun of it (it won't actually affect anything, since all the "Pendragon" stories have been written already and are going through Edits), what would you most like/expect to see in "Pendragon"'s Season Three? Just curious about this one.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 07:27:13 AM
IP: 216.87.46.133.dialup-stl.primary.net

First of all, I'd like to thank all those who welcomed me back and wish a happy 4th of July to everyone. It's strange, this is the first time I've actually been in the country to celebrate it since 1996. Let the explosions begin! (Me, a pyro? Whatever gave you that idea?)

Green Baron> <<Are you still going to G2K?>> I never had any certain plans to go, but I had hoped the opportunity would arise somehow. Now the answer sadly looks like a definite no. The Gathering is just too close to the time I need to head back to school for the trip to be possible (among several other problems). : ( Hopefully G01 will be in Los Angeles, then I wouldn't have to travel halfway across the country in the wrong direction to get there.

Wilek> <<Or bees? Or dogs with bees in their mouths so when they bark they shoot bees?>> Or a robotic Richard Simmons? <<have you seen Kitty lately? Because I think she's been travelling>> *LOL* I had been wondering where she's been going at night... I guess my long absence from the CR meant she had to find a target other than DC : )

Fire Storm> <<You haven't voted yet? Why not? >> I haven't voted because I never use the pictures and don�t plan on using them in the future, so any vote I sent in would just be a group of completely random selections serving no purpose other than possibly counteracting the votes of people who actually have an opinion on the subject.

SOROW> <<our yearbook staff is crappy and slow>> So was mine. My 11th and 12th grade year books don't have any signatures in them because the books were not finished until halfway through the next school year, meaning I didn't get my 11th grade book until nearly Christmas of 12th grade and I didn't get my 12th grade book until the end of the first semester of my freshman year of college. : (

Winterwolf> <> But if I didn't have wildly fluctuating sleep patterns, there might not be anything interesting about me at all. ; )

Warpmind> <<my level of self-irony is at such a level, it by far outweighs my ego>> But what if your ego decided to work with your id and gang up on it? ; )

SJ> <<Lots of charred mammal flesh for everyone!!>> Eeeewwwwwww! I can't stand charred mammal flesh! Just because an animal is carbon-based doesn't mean you have to burn out all other elements. Now if you happen to have some nice juicy nearly raw mammal flesh I'll be happy to partake. : )

Okay, it's after 5am now (where does the time go?). I guess I should at least *try* to go to bed. Bye for now.

Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 06:14:18 AM
IP: ns4-09.viptx.net

A good July 4th to every American here!

Kyryn:> I think I will have no problem in getting the addresses you need (I was supposed to get them as I went seeking infos...sorry). I'll try today if I can, tomorrow at worst. I'll mail them ASAP.

Wapmind:> Did you find the TIE? <<...do tell, or is it
only appropriate for the Adult CR? ;) >> The second one you mentioned...;)...and, since I KNOW the data recorders were on-line (I checked before...) you'll know every detail soon...;)...let your engineers see it, with the workloads you charge them with, I think they have not so many chances of fun...;) (OK, we stretched the CR rules almost to the break point, I think...;)

Mary, Mara, Bronx, Cyborg, Lawrence:> Hm, we have a good amount of non-strictly-hetero people here, isn't it? As far as I'm concerned, no problem with it. I am hetero, at least as far as know, and I have some non-hetero friends, people like everyone else I think. Each of them has chosen freely to tell me about their sexual attitude...for sure I never asked to anyone about it, for I'm not interested...for sure I don't choose my friends according to their preferences. I usually evaluate a person for his/her actions, and not for his/her tastes. Judging a person for sexual attitudes is just like judging according to religion or race...it's stupid. Anyway, I feel to express my admiration to the ones who shared their souls with us...unluckily, these topics are still difficult to talk about, and revealing themselves to a bunch of people you know just slightly...well, it needs courage for sure, and courage is something I like. For sure you all will have no trouble about it coming from me.
SEMI-RELATED LINGUISTICAL DOUBTS
BTW, do you say "straight" to mean hetero? I don't know why, but I don't like it so much...does it mean that non-heteros are "bent"?
I also feel to contest the use of the word "confession" I've seen...I confess when I committed a crime or something similar, and as far as I've seen, none has committed one here...
Delirium? Ok, I cut short...
END DOUBTS

Green Baron:> Because of we are in topic, may I ask you what do you think about the Vatican's position on the World Gay Pride week in Rome?

Spacebabie:> <reads the babysitter thing> Hm...I'm speechless. These are things that make me upset. I'm firmly against capital punishment, but in such cases...
Words are inadequate to comment things like these. Sorry, I really don't know what to say.

Daniel Johnson:> I too like what I'm seeing here now. :)

Niamhgold:> Please, check you email (sorry to harass you, but I think my email provider is becoming unreliable, so I need to know at least if you received my mail...)

Fire Storm & Lady Mistic:> I re-sent you a email with my votes for the CR pictures...did you get it?

Nothing more now. See you all soon, I hope.
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milano, Italy
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 05:46:44 AM
IP: h255-20-28.mi2.albacom.net

Niamhgold> <<They should have a confetti font color in here to match!>>: That would get very annoying unless forcibly restricted to special events.

Fire Storm> <<If someone thinks violent thoughts, writes violent thoughts, but does not act out violent thoughts..., should that person be considered a violent person?>>: Who do you like better, the Walrus or the Carpenter (see http://www.chch.ox.ac.uk/~grossel/chch/alice/lookgls/chap4.html)? Sorry about that, I wrote quite a few papers on Carroll in High School.
EMP: Try http://www.capital.net/com/docrob/nukes.html
<<More Moxy Fruvous!>>: I take it you've been to fruvous.com? Let's see, I have two nearly complete CDs (see my previous post as to why I don't have Lowest Highest Point and Naked Puppets (it's amazing I've kept Kasparov vs. Deep Blue)), plus a couple randoms, so I'll be able to do quite a few more. Though I'd rather have groups interspersed.
<<Just no teeny-bopper crap>>: Do the Monkees count?

Charred mammal flesh: I have recently become addicted to self grilled and marinated meat. Oh, so good.

Wilek> <<It's a game about...Alice In Wonderland>>: American McGee's Alice (I did that without looking it up)? I think it's been in development for a while now.
<>: I only know it because I read through most of the quiz answers. It involves Gwynn and a loofah (actually a mesh bath sponge).
<<this is now one of my favorite comics>>: I originally linked to it through FreeFall (http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/).
<<Stuff I Wish I Could Work Into Casual Conversation: Exhibit #01>>: Exhibit #04: Drunken Monkey Kung Fu. Exhibit #05: The problem with chewing is that you don't get enough torque. Never mind, I already did that last one...

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 04:10:06 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

Tenth!!!��
Anonymous
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 03:36:27 AM
IP: proxy-612.public.rwc.webtv.net

Top 10, with any luck...

Warpmind> <<Ah, the TIE Seraphim, it is mainly on the scetchboard at present?>> Partially...the fighter itself--the engine, hull, and standard weapons (lasers, ions, warheads) are mounted, but the bells and whistles aren't finalized...<<I'm tellin' you, FF8 music can be fun, but putting the hammer down on an enemy starfighter while YMCA blares out of the speakers is PRICELESS! Plus, my private Predator is equipped with a transmissions interceptor... I'm tellin' you, hammering the enemy with laser blasts while booming the Macarena into his ears is HIGHLY demoralizing. ]:)>> Woah...gotta remember that. =) <<Oh, and no, no nanofabrication facility... just a huge crew of engineers. (But hey, still, considering they spent three days on those ten prototypes, it's an impressive feat.)>> O_O Now that is fast work... <<And as for your comment last week about the mansion, sorry, I must have missed it... :(>> Reprinted for thy convenience. ^_^ I'm thinking, have the place riddled with spatial distortions, such that the rooms appear to rearrange themselves randomly. This would be worst in the basement labyrinth, where the exit door would be located; the distortions would be designed to never allow anyone to come within sight of the exit door. The house would have a grand clocktower, which would be the source of the distortions--to stop them and have a chance of getting out, the prisoner would have to make it to the top of the tower and solve some kind of mechanical puzzle to start the clock. However, once that was done, the distortions would collapse into the tower, turning it into something right out of the nightmares of M.C. Escher. >:) And worse, the clock would only run for just long enough for the contestant to make it to the exit, if he hurries, if he knows the layout, and if he already has all the keys. Three very big ifs. >8) <<as I understand it, the ULC provide the means for their ordained ministers to found their own churches. Now, if Christine Morgan was to have herself ordained... can you guys say "Temple of Talopea"?>> Hm...<considers founding the Church Of The Poisoned Mind>

Tim Burton's Planet Of The Apes> This will rock. :) I tend to like remakes better than the originals anyhow, and although I'm not really into what (admittedly little) I've seen of the original Planet Of The Apes, Burton's movies typically end up very kewl (Sleepy Hollow is among my favorites ever). ^_^ (I'm still waiting for him to remake The Wizard Of Oz...)

**GAMING NEWS!**

Has anyone seen this (http://pc.ign.com/news/21650.html)? It's a game about...Alice In Wonderland. Looks pretty cool; I believe the people working on this have temporarily become possessed by the spirits of Tim Burton, Wes Craven, and Clive Barker...Hope it runs on my computer; it uses the Quake 3 engine, and for some reason my PC won't run the Quake 3 demo...

Also intriguing is Evil Dead: Hail To The King for the Playstation (http://psx.ign.com/previews/13415.html). Looks neat; kind of Resident Evil-ish. [Wilek gets out of SJ's way before he can be trampled. ^_^]

**END**

<moment of silence for Walter Matthau>

Gside> <<And I named my soreress (still haven't gotten around to rogue and warrior in I yet) Perky. Sluggy fans, tell me why.>> I just know this is related somehow to some strip I read long, long ago and forgot, and I'm too lazy to read the entire archive again... ;P <<you know I was talking about what tends to crop up in the most innocuous searches when it's the least thing from your mind...>> Ugh...I know that all too well... Tip: Never, *ever* use Yahoo to search for "Men In Black"...Japanese Beetle> OMG...this is now one of my favorite comics. =)

Fire Storm> <<The only reason I did the Tie Predator is because all I had to do was clone a wing. THAT is easy. I have yet to figure out 3d Studio MAX. IF it is just cut-and-paste from a few different models, I might be able to do that. If I have to actually model something... sorry, not yet.>> Do you have models of a Klingon Bird Of Prey and Darth Vader's TIE fighter close at hand? <<Besides... I have the Tie-Dest to work on too!>> Sounds intriguing... ;) <<It is quite surprising to find out that most of us turned out to be relatively normal.>> There's someone relatively normal? In here?! The festering snotrag of the criminally insane?!! <wields sanity sucker> Lemme at 'em! I'll take so much of his/her sanity, it'll make Jackal look like Mr. Rogers! ;P <<Should have used CGI... but there is no way of telling how WyvernWeb would handle a new CGI-bin file.>> Given its track record for stability, I estimate that no one within a 30-mile radius would survive the explosion. ;P j/k <<Hmm... no Wilek...>> I was waiting for a dramatically appropriate moment. ;)

Jackal> <<Anyway..., where's a gud place to buy CDs online?????>> Try www.amazon.com; they have stuff there I'd been seeking for a very long time. ^_^ <<"Thank you flithy whore, now hand over the uterus!">> Stuff I Wish I Could Work Into Casual Conversation: Exhibit #01 <<About Elian's aunt and uncle.... (you can skip this part now if you want), shouldn't they be in prison by now? Seriously think about it, you have obstruction of justice, inciting riots, assaulting police officers, disturbing the peace, to name a few... Really now, all these are actual laws that have been broken, am I missing sumthing here?>> Hm...admittedly I don't know much about the whole thing (are the aunt and uncle in Cuba or the States?), but this is an interesting point...<<Hahaeyy, guess it happens to ever1, huh? ::raises hand:: I was molested!!! But it never really affected me, it's in my mind that it happens to everyone.>> :O You as well...?! :( So far that's at least three people who have been molested or abused in some manner, unless I've missed anyone (which I probably have)...far too many. >:( <<F@#K Yeah!! Impregnant me!!! Insert Here!!!>> Stuff I Wish I Could Work Into Casual Conversation: Exhibit #02 <<I'm just sexually greedy, I guess. I want everything... Are you done with that charred mammal flesh???>> Stuff I Wish I Could Work Into Casual Conversation: Exhibit #03

Cyborg> <<That worked when I was using the tool of the apocalypse (or maybe just the diskcalypse?) But I'm using (mostly) RedHat now.>> Hm...not sure what I can do to help, then...my experience is mostly with Windows; I'm kind of not into the whole OS-by-committee thing... :/ <<how many of us are considered 'non- conformists' by the people around us where we live.>> I suspect I am, because I find RL stultifyingly dull and prefer things like video games, roleplaying games (which I don't have the option of actually playing, but I enjoy the ficverses they're a part of, especially Call Of Cthulhu and the World Of Darkness), and the Internet (including the CR)...this may have something to do with the fact that I know perhaps two or three people in RL who are anywhere near as generally kewl as the people here...<<Why do lesbians turn guys on so often?>> It is a mystery...I mean, it isn't as if two females who are interested in *each other* would want a guy coming in (I think I'd better rephrase that) and ruining the moment...

Christine> <<it would cost a lot of money to buy me a High Priestess kind of bod ; )>> Neurosurgery and genetic engineering are becoming more and more advanced; with any luck, a full body transplant will be available within our lifetimes, hopefully with full insurance coverage...

Green Baron> <<Maybe Bronx has a top ten for us about how Tim Burton will alter Planet of the Apes.>> Well, it's a given that someone at some point will wear a black and white striped garment (Sleepy Hollow, Beetlejuice, A Nightmare Before Christmas)... ;) Planet Of The Cows> <ROTFLMTO> <> <blush> Although I have been tempted on occasion (Dr. Nguyen, Rene and Satan, Crackers the Lobster)...<<Rambo would be good battling against the Smurfs.>> How 'bout Ash from Army Of Darkness? "London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down..." hehehe <<Attila: But my mind wasn't neutered. ::purrs at all the ladies::>> Veritable phantasmagoria of bizarre and grotesque imagery there. ;P j/k

Winterwolf> <<My sister's place in Throgsneck. Don't ask me what I Throg is. I just don't know. Even better the area my sis is in is called Locust Point.>> And I thought British town names were bizarre (Ugley, Nasty, Great Snoring, Seething, Donkey Town, Toad's Mouth, Maggot's End, Foulbog, Belchford, Spital In The Street, Nether Wallop, North Piddle). ;) <> Do they have a plushie Machoke? :)

Jenna> That one 18 yr old> Glad to see you're finally rid of her. :D

Hyperion> <<SO the current topic's reproduction hmm...I'm all for parthnogensis m'self.>> You too? :) Really, the mechanics of the traditional method are so...uncouth...

Mary Flanders> Sister> Ack...that must have been horrible. :(

Spacebabie> <<When I was about 3 or 4 ( I think it was around that age) I was abused by my babysitter at the time. My parents didnt know and I was told not to tell. They found out when she made a mistake and left a red swollen hand print on my face and thats when my parents called the cops.>> OMG... :O That...that...<speechless>

Coyote> Camp experiences> Dear gods... :`( If there be any justice, in this world or the next, your tormentors will spend eternity being violated in body and spirit. (I really have to convince a friend of mine to start posting here; I think he could really relate to this...)

SJ> Harry Potter Rejected Titles> <ROTFL>

Niamhgold> <> The British (see above). ;P
Wilek Nereus
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 03:30:23 AM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

Got to see the ships that'll be sailing into New York. Quite interesting, even though not a sail was up, and I was at the highest point on the eastern seabord (all of 3 minutes from my house).

Daniel Johnson> <<I'll be hanging out mostly in the S8 room>>: I really gotta get back there. Ever since the Ask Greg incident (probably also combined with the possibly incendiary guns topic), I haven't been over there very much.

Winterwolf> <<We can have a gargoyles fan Diablo II romp. Gside are you in?>>: Would be interesting, but it would have to be an open game so I could use my (lowly Lev11) single player character. The problem is that I'm not sure how good of a team person I would be (never went with a group before), and I would probably only be available at odd times (after midnight EST mostly). There should probably also be some finegaling to check for a balanced party. Oh, and did you notice that Bill Roper (Blizzard high muckamuck) did the voice for Diablo? Plus, there were special thanks to Sluggy Freelance and Napster.

Jakal> Rebeka w/ k: I know someone with it spelled Rebekah.

Welcome back Airwalker.

Kyryn> email: Were what I found anywhere near accurate?
<<the "protect the children from violence and guns" people>>: Wonder what they say about Henry V? All the English squires were slaughtered by the French. And I love Branaugh's scene of Henry carrying Falstaff's boy while Non Nobis plays.

Warpmind> <<Jay and Silent Bob... they're potheads, right?>>: Yeah. Jay tends to bring that fact to light more easily than SB. **SPOILER**In Dogma, they expanded their minds with a couple fallen angels.**/SPOILER**
<<they were doing nothing but insulting Brooklyn and his Estrogen Brigade, and they were posting in all caps>>: You forgot about the frequency. What was it, like 40 posts in ten minutes?

Hyperion> <<Just taking a break for a metric buttload of work I have>>: You measure that with a Laplace transformation?
<<HOLY HELL!!!!!!!!>>: What? Over 50% packet collisions?
Sorry about that, they just reminded me of a couple stupid quotes from my last year at Rutgers. (http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~tfarrell/stupid.html)

Cyborg> nonconformity: I'd say here too. Mostly for general oddness, but I also have a rather painfully Victorian vocabulary (the only time I let myself swear is when I make it clear I am quoting someone else), I refue to wear shorts in the hottest weather, the upper half of my wardrobe is limited to tshirts, turtlenecks, and sweatshirts; I have again started wearing the oddest bandanas possible (holstien, lilac tiedyed, plaid, camoflague) (and don't ask about my winter hat), dated taste in music (what was the most recent mp3 I put up? (Weird Al, but that was a take off of Don McLean)), plus I don't get out much.

Spacebabie, CtB, Jackal> May old wounds heal.

CtB> <<giving the headlights an "angry gargoyle eyes" appearance>>: I was surprised when I didn't find any (computer) wallpapers that were just a couple pairs of glowing eyes (one red and one white for a couple sects, the white for some others).

8th.

Will finish off the old CR soon.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 02:59:29 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

TOP TEN!
Zath
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 02:13:30 AM
IP: ns4-09.viptx.net

6TH
Janine - [Purple_Pixy@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 02:03:59 AM
IP: phx-211.treknet.net

No RPs tonight. Nothing really worth mentioning in RP for now..

Mara> I saw the first four episodes of Utena on video. It was weird but I liked it.

Cyborg> <<I'm not. I got pregnant by accident, then miscarried. Because of my illness, pregnancy is dangerous for both me and the child.>> I can see. Still, it sucks to miscarry. My mother lost a child when I was three. Sh etold me about it and how upset she was. I really was too young to feel anything about it.

Gside> There's soemthing on newgrounds where Jay and Silent Bob must solve a mystery.

Jackal> A sense of humor is good. As for a kid's name, I always look for a dead relative's name.

I fear my heart will always be like it is. Such is my path in life. I do hope that isn't true, but I've learned to accept it.

Kyryn> Well, I guess then we should have a Hessian guy named Schumer in Brooklyn and a British Captain O'Donell condemn the child revolutionaries in some scene in the movie :)

Warpmind> So if angered, you don your helmet and pillage us, right :)

Mary Flanders> My e-mail address is greenbaron@hotmail.com
and my ICQ # is 22382390

Also, I'm glad you shared your soul with us like that ::hugs::

GXB> I sit still in a pony tail?

Mara> When did you learn you were bi?

Kitainia> Well, I'm glad your parents dropped such a predjudice. As for being Republican, I'll neevr understand why so many dislike homosexuals. If they dropped that predjudice, the Log Cabin Club would double over night.

Bronx> Well, that was very courageous of you my dear. I imagine it took a lot out of you to share your secret with the rest of the room. ::pulls her on his lap and huggles her::

Cyborg> I think men like bisexual women, because of certian fantasies they have about having sex with two women. It's also more accepted than male bisexuality.

Spacebabie> ::hugs:: That's horrible.

Coyote> You're story is worse. I used to get teasd a lot, though it had an opposiet effect. I can't cry now, becasue of what happened back in my youth.

Lawrence> I am glad you shwoed your courage too. You'll find another one soon enough, but you're still young, and love is for people in their 30s.

And.....fifth!!

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 01:56:27 AM
IP: proxy1-external.elmwd1.la.home.com

forth or fifth

hey, it's tuesday, what gives already?
shinigami
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 01:55:38 AM
IP: spider-te082.proxy.aol.com

Top Ten! :P

Hey, everybody, I got a new car and a new kitten all in the same week!
Jessie Feff - [feff@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 01:43:02 AM
IP: ctrts2-2.mrs.umn.edu

Oh, sure. NOW you wipe the room! :)
Fire Storm
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 01:39:44 AM
IP: 2cust23.tnt4.det3.da.uu.net

Firestorm and Lady Mystic: Doug and I voted on pics today. Did you get it?

Top Something!

More soon.
Kitainia
Tuesday, July 4, 2000 01:39:08 AM
IP: pool-209-138-200-250-dlls.grid.net