Add to the Comment Room | Last week's Comment Room | TGS WebSite | Text-only Comment Room

Niamhgold: Thanks! Looking very forward to the full feedback whenever you can get it to me, the little bits you did give were great to hear. :) On a related note, I hope you and my other fans aren't worrying too much about my burnout. It's slowing down and easing somewhat. :) I got the beat sheet for "Losses" done today, will begin the actual story on Monday probably. Looking forward to your next story as much as you are to mine. <grins>

Later!
Doug
Saturday, July 15, 2000 10:19:22 PM
IP: pool-209-138-63-116.dlls.grid.net

I cut my hair off today, so I'll no longer be known as "that dancer with the long blonde hair." I love it, thank God. I kinda look like Britney Spears now...(avoids the rotten vegetables thrown at me) ;)
SOROW
Saturday, July 15, 2000 10:15:19 PM
IP: dll2a020-0638.splitrock.net

Shadowrider>>
<we have to use this short time the best way we can, without wasting a single moment.>
Very well put, the whole thing. I certainly can't add anything to what you said, except to say that I've been told in no uncertain terms to head those words.

<I think that a God exists...and he created all of us...just to laugh of us.>
Ouch! That's a hard position to take.
I have a tough time getting away from the "old man with a white beard" image, it's hard to ignore the childhood programming. When I do let it go, I don't try to replace it with my own menu of what God should be. If pressed by some believer who wants to argue me out of my position, I'll point out that the most likely God is the entire universe. Not just the space and the stars, but us in it too. Kinda' puts a different perspective on God creating us. They usually give up then. Any other God they want me to accept must, by definition, be less than the one I proposed. :-)


Wow! I'm caught up!

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Saturday, July 15, 2000 09:30:26 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

**********Warning X-Spoilers********************************
I thought X-Men was a good movie too. They remained faithful to the characters, great acting on the part of the cast (particularily the actress playing Rogue), loved the cameos by Kitty Pryde, Pyro and Iceman. The best part though was the fact that they actually turned TOAD into a real threat, I was amazed, shocked even. I hope they incorporate his movie doppleganger's extending toungue and slightly higher intelligence into the comics. I just wish we could have seen a scene between Rogue and Mystique. Mystique was Rogue's foster mother in the comics, I know they couldn't have done anything with that in this version of Rogue's origin but it would have been nice to have some sort of exchange or conversation.

Rodlox - Re: Rogue having a kid. I'm not 100% sure of the details but in an alternate timeline Rogue and Magneto were able to have a child together because Mags could create some kind of electro-magnetic feild around his body to protect himself.

Re: Wolverine's origin and what to call people from Canada - What was done to Wolverine is nothing. In the most recent Alpha Flight (Canada's superhero team) comics Canada has resorted to everything from kidnapping to brainwashing in order to create our own superheros. BTW Canadians is the proper term. Canadiens refers to french settlers of the Quebec region. I believe it can also be used for modern French Canadians, although Quebecois, Acadian or French Canadian tend to be the more widely used terms depending on what part of the country they're in and who their ancestors are.
Graymonk - [bgray@upei.ca]
Saturday, July 15, 2000 08:42:07 PM
IP: asy07.dial.upei.ca

curly++ warily peeks through the door. Oh good, no-one is looking. This is going to be wierd, I opened the CR first thing this morning and now, practicaly last thing tonight after many interruptions, I'm up to date with 6am. I wonder when I'll read today's posts!


Warpmind de InzanE>>
<I doubt it would be ethically appropriate for me to join your church>
Just as well. Given my opinion of churches, I doubt it would be ethically appropriatte for me to start one. :-)


Archwolf>>
<Sheesh. I hate pain killers.>
I know exactly what you mean. Have you ever tried non-medicinal pain cotrol? I've often had excellent results with meditation, self-hypnosis and even just reading a book to take most of my mind into the protagonist's universe. I do find it depends on the type of pain and of course YMMV.


Sevarius Jr.>>
<the point of using such a camp would be to socially condition the inmates>
No. I don't believe that you can ever find a way to do evil to people by incarcertating them and have a good result like rehabilitation occur because of that.
Forcing someone to live on a reservation is not an act of kindness, it is segregation. It is recognizing that we don't want these people around, but minimizing the evil we do to them when we banish them. The best thing about it is that without our rules and our guards inside, people who reforms _themselves_ have a chance to build a good life inside Coventry.
BTW, this is not original. I stripped the unrealistic parts from the concept, but got if from a sci-fi short story called "Coventry". I don't have the book any more and don't remember who wrote it, but I was quite impressed with the story as well as the supporting concept. While I was looking, I did come across another short story, "The Country Of The Kind" by Damon Knight, first published 1955. A similar idea but boiled down to one single individual imprissoned without walls. Worth a read if you can dig it up.


DPH>>
<should be this: "Always do the right thing.">
The current fad in pop ethics is that "right" and "wrong" don't even exist, they are just cultural artifacts. Not that I agree with that, but I find most people who do will instantly agree if I propose "hurt no-one" instead. That sort of settles the argument, they just don't realise they have agreed to a definition of right and wrong. :-)


Jannie>>
<I was SUPPOSE to have my stomach surgery today>
Bummer! That's awfull to go through, having yourself ready and anticipating then having to adjust to another delay. Hope you can get it rescheduled without any more hitches.

<I say fry their ass and stop costing the taxpayers their upkeep.>
I heard on CNN that your death row process costs much more that imprisonment for life.
The studies are referenced in every scientific articles I've read on the subject. I haven't read anything lately, but such a preponderance from when I was reading more makes me doubt it has changed much. Have a look through the index for Scientific American, New Scientist and any other science mags you enjoy. Oddly enough, I've never seen anything that gave any scientific support to the American penal system, but ISTR one article started out by saying that was thier original intent until they actually looked at the evidence.

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Saturday, July 15, 2000 08:28:54 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

New Story!
"Shameless Plug II: Heartaches" is now posted. When Cagney goes missing, young Alex tries to help ... but summons the wrong Cat ; )
Set just after Curse of the Shadow Beasts, and before the events of the Damien trilogy.
Click or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/s_plug_2.html
Comments and feedback always welcome!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Saturday, July 15, 2000 07:58:15 PM
IP: 07-154.009.popsite.net

** Niamhgold in for a quickie **

Hi! RL is _really_ unbearable this week! Additionally, I'm getting those hap-snappy wisdom teeth out Monday, so you'll probably see even less of me then!

Winterwolf: Got your return e-mail! ** Hands him a s'more ** I've been recently camping, so you can have some leftovers. Made with a Wonka bar! (hint: Rice crispies don't fare so well in a microwave ;) ) But I've also decided I like my home, too. Camping's fun, but only for a few days. Then you just wanna go home, take a shower, and sleep on a mattress :) So, how are things?

Doug: I read pt. 3 of Night of the Symbiotes, but I'm backlogged on stuff right now, so I'm afraid feedback will have to wait :( But I _can_ tell you this--I gave ya five stars, loved the ending, and appreciated the character development!

Stephen Sobotka: Man, I'm so sorry to hear about the job! ** Fries boss with magical power ** It's such a downer when that happens! At least, now, you can have a crack at a job that'll respect your magnificent talents better than they could! It's good to know that your wife is so helpful, too! :) Much luck!

Christine: Congrats! Kick some business butt!

Shadowrider: The 19th of september? Ach, I'll be in college, but I'll try very hard to find time for your party! I've got to make a cake, you know! Multi-flavored cake, with some plastic soldiers on top ;) Yeah!

GB: Oddly enough, I always liked those family vacations. Maybe because we weren't going to visit family ;) Forget about hitting those clay pigeons...how about some of those annoying garden gnomes? :)

That's all for now, fellas!

Niamhgold
Saturday, July 15, 2000 07:52:52 PM
IP: lac-flex165.ncia.net

<---{see what this looks like}.

**SPOILR WARNINS FR _X-MEN_ MOVI**
{remind me to have a chat with my fingers about the meaning of Mutation, okay?}.
_X-MEN_ was a great movie! {and this is coming from somebody who never read the comics, and only caught one or two of the cartoon eps.

I honestly could NOT see any evidence of a love triangle between Logan/JeanGrey/Cyclops - though Cyclop's tension was there, there didn't seem to be anything more than neutrality between Logan and Jean Grey.

On the other claw {i'm a fadop member}, the interaction between Logan and {shoot, just forgot Rogue's name} was more memorable, and showed great promise as an indication of things to come.

i was trying to figure out how the HECK Rogue would/could ever have kids without draining the guy dry {and would she keep absorbing the fetus(es)??}...and i figured it out* - somebody/thing that keeps growing, possibly develops extreme body appendages and outgrowths {wings, vines, etc}, which might get him confused with a gargoyle in a crossover universe. after that, i invented Cladi, a Mutant woman who can devolve-and-reevolve into other branches of the system of Cladistics {kingdom, phylum, order, etc}.

* = this was before they mentioned Logan's healing ability....though a question: 1) if that stuff's a supermetal, then how was it forged, prior to entering him? 2) were his claws bending, or was it simply a trick of the spinning top? {near the end}...3) and - the CANADIANS did that to him? or was it the CANADIENS?

VERY touching scene in the beginning, with Magneto's origins...i'm frankly surprised that he wasn't killed then and there! {then again, maybe the guards saw him as the best of the [supposed] scrap of the inmates. {i easily can imagine them holding him up, saying "if this is what the Jews can spit out, imagine how much _our_ children can do!"}.

Toad, as a character, was just begging to be expanded upon...{and on that note, what was the meaning of that?: at least 6 X-Men against two or three of the Brotherhood??}.

Now i've got a story idea - Toad's niece! {frog tongues are longer and not as thick as toads'}. that - and she goes to school with ...you know who. <----.

small question: if somebody who can walk through walls picks up a pen and drops it into a gun, does the gun simply jam from the pen itself - or is there metal warping in there as well??
**END MOVIE SPOILERS**

Rodlox - [Rodlox@hotmail .com]
Saturday, July 15, 2000 07:15:41 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

<Shadowrider returns early>
Not my best Saturday night ever...rather the opposite, probably. Oh, well...at least I'll sleep a bit (I have an exam Tuesday...so, tomorrow I'll be able to study a little)

Green Baron:> No, I don't think you are too strict. I don't share your opinions about some things, and sometimes, just sometimes, I find your positions a bit too...radical (hope it means what I think), just because I usually try to see all the sides of any problem, but I don't consider you too strict for this. It's your opinions, after all, and you have every right to express them (I just hope I have the right to disagree...;). As far as I know, you could be right on all the line...I can't be sure, but it is at least possible. With a bit of luck, one day we will know...probably, if will turn out that I was wrong, my eternal punishment will be to listen forever a crowd of believers saying me:"I told you! I told you! I told you!..." ;)
Actually, I didn't want you to DO anything about the Vatican's attitude about homosexuals...I just wanted to know your opinion.
Hey, it is strange that you said that all we know of Jesus is second-hand...it is hard to find a believer who admits it.

Curly ++:> A little addendum to what I wrote before (actually, I was supposed to write it immediately, but it slipped out of my mind. Sorry.) I somehow agree with what you say about our souls, and about the role of everyone of us in this universe. I personally think that there are other phases of existance, but I think that, because of we can't know, we have to act as they don't exist. Our life, no matter how long, is insignificant compared to the flowing of Time. All the years we can live, are really as short as a single day. So, we have to use this short time the best way we can, without wasting a single moment. Many simply let it flow away, and they even don't try to do anything. They're like ghosts, and their passage leaves no sign. Some others try to accumulate money, just like their treasures could follow them in death. They live for temselves, and are forgotten. And a few try to use their short time to leave something behind them, a sign of their passage, something the others will recognize in the future. This has to be the purpose: build something for those who will live after us, be it a work of art, or a more equal society, or simply the example of a honest and decorous life. At least, I see it this way.
Hm...even less sense than before, isn't it? I did my best, but my best is not that much...

Maybe I'll just be better to go to bed.

Good night everyone!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Saturday, July 15, 2000 05:03:09 PM
IP: h255-22-95.mi2.albacom.net

Not much to say today.

Death penalty - (unfortunately) I am for only executing guilty people and not one innocent should be executed.

I can't people people would voluntarily work overtime when normal overtime includes Sundays.

My dad doesn't understand why I would want to shut the door when I go to bed and we had arguments about it. I think of my dad as more of a boss than a father and no one wants to be around the boss continiously.

Property rights - don't shoot before asking questions. You might kill a census worker, postal employee, or your new neighbor wanting to meet you.
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Saturday, July 15, 2000 04:36:04 PM
IP: max1-3.cwy.cei.net

RP WARNING!!!
**Secret headquarters of Cromwell
Oliver Cromwell and the Orange Duke sit at the altar to discuss what has happened.

"Now we have lost Paisley. It seems no matter what we do, we can't get rid of the scouts."
"Milord, perhaps we can't get rid of them, maybe only you are worthy, but perhaps I can turn the Green Baron to the Orange Side."
"You've been watching too much Star Wars, but do as you wish, if you think it will work."

The Orange Duke leaves with a few supplies, while Cromwell turns on a screen to contact Ted Turner.

"Turner!! The Orange Duke has left to challenge the Green Baron. Here's what I want you to do..."**
TO BE CONTINUED!!!

Hello all!! I'm back and glad the CR is up. I had dinner with my father and stepmother. I might also go shooting with him Sunday. It should help prepare me for Basic Training. Maybe I'll hit a clay pigeon this time :)

Cyborg> <<That can be construed as very naughty (then again, I have a dirty mind sometimes)>> I wasn't really thinking that. I was thinking something professional as in six or seven figure salary.

I also had a mother who was a housewife and when my father left, it was a crisis for her and she didn't get a job until many years later. My motehr is also a woman cursed with emotions and I find her very unpleasant when emotional. I also don't want my wife to be financially dependent on me, like my motehr was. I don't beleive in divorce, but if i die, she could be in a dire situation. I agree with you about day care and I don't like how soem view it as a substitute for child rearing. I also don't intend to spoil my child with designer baby clothes or otehr useless expenditures, and I woudl like it if my wife satyed home for the first few years of the child's life (preferrably her since I can't breatsfeed), but I think it was foolish of my mother to quit her job as soon as she got married. I also find other faults with my motehr, including her love affair with yardwork and all teh stupid plants she has around the house. I have no desire to ever bu a house. I regard yards as a way to absue chidlren, pools as unnecessary work when most gyms have them, and I want absolutely no plants in my apartment at all. I guess she's helped me realize what I don't want in my life. BTW, she also has horribel family vactaions that involve two day car rides to Florida starting at Christmas to visit my grandparents in their retirement community. It is horrible tos ay, but because of thsoe yearly trips, I was not too sad that my grandfather die, becuase it meant no more family vacations. That is another thing I will never subject my children to: family vacations.

I personally wish there was a way for both patrents to work and for the child to be raised as intensively by one. Well, with the internet one parent can work at home so that is more possible. I also want a dual income family, because my family ahsn't been rich in a century, and I want to be teh next wealthy Forsyth.

Sevarius Jr.> Well, Spike Lee is an idiot, an dhis comments express it when he ciriticizes the Patriot, or Mayor Guiliani, or when he sugegsted that Charleton Heston shoudl be shot. The guy is a typical Holloywood Liberal who needs to have his tongue cut out or throat cut. It would be so peaceful if all those bleedinghearts couldn't speak :)

<<because it's illegal in the USA to kill anyone over property. It's not justifiable homicide. >> More's the pity. It shows we've goen soft imo. Perhaps if that useless 8th Ammendment were repealed.....

Can't say that I heard of him. I don't watch Fox News. Most of my political info is from www.frontpagemag.com.

Warpmind> Well, I believe if someone encroaches on yoru property without permission, you shoudl be able to do whatever the Hell you want to do to them if you catch them. I think a few "it's you're ass" laws and the abolition of contingency lawsuits would cut down on a lot of breaking and entering crimes.

Shadowrider> Well, you know my stance and you probably think me too strict still. I don't know what exactly you want me to do about the Vatican's stance. Jesus never said anything about homsoexuality. In fact, Jesus worte down about as much as Socrates did. All we know of Jesus is second hand. When he brought up his stance on South Park, his message was interupted :) That position may cahnge, but it will still take a long time, and undoubtedly long after we are both dead.

Well, at least you know about your draft date and it may not seem like much pay, but just think of how much it is in lira :) Maybe after your year is up, you can volunteer for the Italian Air Force like you wanted to.

DPH> Hopefully, you can get an apartment soon, though your dad will be all alone.

Christine> I'll try to be there for the chat. If I can't, my mother is to blame.

Death Penalty> I hav eno real objection to it, except that its so expensive in the US. All the appeals and the silly mdoernized methods of execution. I'd be content to abolsih it if all the lifers were sent to tent prisons like that sherriff in Arizona runs. I think some of you know who he is. Sevarius Jr., I think you might like that system for all our convicts, especially the pink underwear :)

Doug> It seems my opinions about my father were painted by my mother's propaganda. I'm not surprised. She's a coddling, manipulative, over-protective, emotional, b*tch and I look forward to not being udner the same roof as her. I also hope she kicks the bucket soon.

Did Emmerich and Gibson do Braveheart? For some reason, the Patriot reminded me a lot of Braveheart.

Mary> Well, that sort of thing would be more common in New Orleans. Well, I doubt you're racist. Take your opinion fo them from a classist perspective instead.

SOROW> I hope you like you're enw computer. Now, let us know what free chat devices you'll get :)
I recommend Yahoo IM, AOL IM, and Hotmail's IM :)

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Saturday, July 15, 2000 04:15:28 PM
IP: proxy1-external.elmwd1.la.home.com

TaleWeaver>> Fox WILL be re-airing episodes of X-Men once again. I don't recall when they said the would start however.

RE Reality>> Refuses to stoop to such a low levelby responding to their comments..(except for this statement here) I just plan to ignore said person as all it seems they want to do is to start a flame-war.

Christine>> CONGRATULATIONS on the contract! I can't wait to order my copy. <<Adult Chat>> If I'm not busy loafing and schmoozing at the Comic Con that night, I'll be there with bells on! =]

ArchWolf>> glad to hear that the knees are basically okay, but bummer news on the kidneys. *Huggles.. Canyon pauses in the game of tag and walks over to rub his head against your legs in consolation, then runs off and nips WarFrost on the tail.^Tag! You're It!^*

Another Anime note>>Saw a commercial on Fox this morning that they will also be airing Escaflame <sp?> I've heard a few people make comments on this show, and juding from the little bit I saw of the commercial, it looks to be interesting at least. Of course it's probably going to be HEAVILY editted for TV.


Katara - [garglover66f@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA
Saturday, July 15, 2000 03:36:46 PM
IP: ac9326b7.ipt.aol.com

MAINFRAME: ONLINE

Hey all! I am back from vacation!

I'll post more later. Right now, LM, Puppy Girl and I are gonna check out some Rollerblades!

NEWBIES//NEWBOOTS//NEW POSTERS FORMERLY KNOWN AS LURKERS
Click my link to vote for the new CR pictures for this CR!
AND READ THE FFAQ! *ESPECIALLY AOL USERS!*
Fire Storm - [<--- For all of you newbies, here is the CR PIC vote page!]
Saturday, July 15, 2000 01:40:43 PM
IP: 1cust135.tnt2.det3.da.uu.net

Hello inhabitants! Just dropping in for a sec.
Hey, who's the weirdo (more weird than we are??)with the handle "Reality", and what is he/she/it trying to prove? That we all live in a fantasy world? Heckfire, we already KNEW that, didn't we? ;) That person evidently is stuck in a Very Mundane World, and desperately wishes to join us, but doesn't quite know how to go about it. poor thing...((((sympathy vibes))))

Welcome back Jannie! How'd it go with your daughter? I really hope it went well. Did you get my last email? Hey, good luck on your surgery and all. (((Jannie)))

Congrats on your contract Ms. Christine!

Winterwolf: hey buddy, I actually got a post in to the CR! Pretty amazing, huh?

Does anyone have any idea where I might find Gargoyle tee-shirts (in Texas-DFW area)? I would really like to have one, especially now that I've ordered 3 DBZ tees (one each for Bryant, Tommy and I - mine's "Piccolo's Wrath") from Funimation. Wouldn't want Goliath to get jealous or anything. :) Goliath, Piccolo, Goliath, Piccolo...oh, well maybe they will both understand? I think I'm starting my third or fourth childhood...

See y'all later!

Lynne 8-p
Lynne Like - [mjlike@yahoo.com]
Saturday, July 15, 2000 01:24:59 PM
IP: fw1.directlink.net

<Shadowrider appears from nothing>

Curly++:> Well, I currently consider myself an agnostic, because I'm not sure a God or anything like to exist or not. So, I can't say I believe in God as well, for believing in something implies that I don't question its existance. I eventually think that, even if an entity like God exist, it is so different from us, that we cannot even start to understand its nature...not to mention its intentions, or its moral attitude (if these human concepts are appliable to a God, of course). So, every attempt made by religions to "Make the will of God" is, as far as I'm concerned, at least utopian: how we can, in fact, be sure that what we consider "good" is "good" for God? In the name of God have been committed things that I find disgusting and horrible, but believing that God shares my view about it is at least selfish by me. So, I think that, in absence of an answer, everyone of us has to try doing what we believe to be "good"...and keep searching for answers, most of all keep asking ourselves questions: the fact we will never know the Truth is not a good reason to give up...Personally, though, in the deep of myself I think that a God exists...and he created all of us...just to laugh of us.
I'm sorry if I didn't make much sense above, speaking of these things is quite difficult to me, although I like these discussions a lot.

Winterwolf:> Yeah, the idea of meeting on the Chat sounds very good to me! :) I'll let you know when t works for me with a good advance.
As you correctly said, I'm looking forward to my service. In my family there's a tradition: everytime Fatherland called us, we always answered the call...some of us, to the extreme consequences. For sure, I'll not be the one who breaks the tradition. And, furthermore, military service will give me the chance to see some new places, and do something different from usual. Sure, the pay increasing is a good new, and being warned with a little advance is even better (now I'll be able to try a couple of exams, and have a bit of vacation too...)

Doug:> Well, Nico has not a email, he eventually has not a connection (there's a PC in his home, but he doesn't know how to use it, and doesn't want to learn...usually, if he needs something from the Net, he asks me to search...)
Anyway, I'll tell him your stepfather liked his work, I'm sure he'll be happy to know it.
About Troisi...<sighs>...his death was a bad blow for many of us. Anyway, there's no shame in you not knowing of it...as far as I know, "Il Postino" was his only movie that arrived in the USA, so probably the media there didn't mention his death.
About Blade Runner...you really liked more the original version? Weird...I always thought the Director's cut was better. I never liked the "Hollywoodian happy ending" final that they glued to the original version. The scenes with the unicorns was suggestive IMO and when in the end we find the unicorn origami...well, everything assumes a new meaning. The narrating voice was not bad, OK, but as far as I'm concerned the movie could easily do without...IMO, the Director's cut was nearer to the original "Do androids dream of electric sheep" novel by Philip Dick (one of my preferred writers). Oh, well...just taste, and I totally agree with the other things you say about the movie (particularily Roy's final monologue...). BTW, I like "Terminator" a lot as well!

Jannie:> Welcome back! Glad to know you had good time. :)

Archwolf:> Ack! I'm sorry about your knees! Well, at least it is nothing really bad, I hope you will recover soon!
<<I'l just have to callup a certain dance agency and reserve that date...... >> Thank you so much! You already know my tastes...;)

SOROW:> Congts about the new computer! May it give you hours of fun!

X-Men the movie:> Whoa! A lot of enthusiastic spoilers! It is quite a surprise, after months in which I heard speaking of it as a predestinated flop! I can't wait 27th of October, when it will be out in Italy (why all this delay, you ask? Good question...)

Death punishment:> I avoid political discussions here, usually, and I intend to continue avoiding them. I just want to state my opinion about death punishment, so to avoid misunderstandings. No offence intended to anyone, and I assure I have the maximum respect for everyone doesn't agree with me about it. I am definitely against death punishment. I think it is barbaric, too erratic, and uselessly cruel. How can the USA, a very civilized country for many other things, still use death punishment is something that escapes my comprehension. That's all.

Warpmind:> ;)

Ok, nothing more for now. See you tomorrow.
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Saturday, July 15, 2000 12:35:47 PM
IP: h213-18-248.mi2.albacom.net

Taleweaver > Fox Kids is showing the X-Men cartoons weekday afternoons starting Monday, according to the commercial that just ran during Dungeons and Dragons. Which means I'll be watching them all in hopes of catching the one with Nightcrawler, who was always my personal favorite.

Adult Chat > the reason I'll be there so late is that I have to get Becca to bed first or she'll never give me a moment's peace ; )

Update > too tired last night to do more than laze on the couch (and re-read MEG, great book, gotta get the sequel now). So Shameless Plug II still isn't up. I'll do it this afternoon when we get back from the movie. Thanks for the encouragement! It was fun getting to work with the characters again!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Saturday, July 15, 2000 12:17:19 PM
IP: 15-117.009.popsite.net

So I wasnt the only one who couldn't access the CR...I'm still having trouble with my Yahoo mail and my Smstars mail.

SJ>>>Glad your dad doesnt have Prostate cancer, I'll keep him in my thoughts, and I'll look for the book you recomended

Heather>>>Rini's transformations is that blink of an eye change you see with the lil hearts.Its the same in the Subs...nothing has been cutout. there were only two times where she had a long drawn out transformations, once in the S movie and once in SuperS.

Speaking of Sailormoon OMG they kept Hotaru's name. in the original it was Tomoe Hotaru and well here its Hotaru Tomoe wich means "Firefly of the Earth" The kept the same last names of the Outers as well
Amara Tenoh=Steadfast Skylord
Michelle Kaioh=Godlike Seaking
Trista Meioh= Sorrowfull Deadruler

And if your wondering whats the deal with Hotaru((the freaky voice change)) She is possesd, But I can't tell you by what. And there is something else special about her. That I also can't tell you

Mary Flanders>>> Yeah I was nerly moved to tears about Wasshu myself, but Firday's was hilarious when Washu wasteaching the other girls about Masses and Ryoko was flicking spit wads at Ayaka while Mioshi snoozed. I am also curious on when Kiyone...the blue haired cop arrives

Shinesman>>>I saw preiviews for this on my Magic Kights tape and got intrigued, so I did a little net research. It turns out its an anime that spoofs Power Rangers..as well as the anime genre, and there are a lot of funny lines in it
"Girls like a guy in spandex"
"She's one OAV short a sereis"
"Sheena get into the glowing green square"
"Oh my God you killed Kimonole! You Monsters!" I gotta buy this or atleast rent it

Jannie>>>I hate pantyhose too

Tries to leave the comment room, trips and crashes into a tree. Looks at everyone
"Koala"
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn]
Orlando, Fl, USA
Saturday, July 15, 2000 11:57:07 AM
IP: user-37kaoul.dialup.mindspring.com

SOROW:
Congratulations on the new computer. Now, just don't let all that freedom go to your head. :)
----
Gside:
RE: speech dictation. Is this better? I can say "dash,dash,dash,dash". I can also say "colon,close parenthesis". It just takes some getting used to. It's funny how we get so used to each other's mannerisms.
----
Well, I have to go. I have to work this morning. And it's supposed to rain all day. :P
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Saturday, July 15, 2000 06:05:39 AM
IP: ppp-03.rb5.exit109.com

Hey, everybody, just 20 days remain until The Gathering 2000. G2K has just added another special guest... here's a copy of the note Greg Weisman posted in Station 8 to tell you more:

** BEGIN REPOST OF S8 NOTE **

I have some really GREAT NEWS! Please help me spread the word! Brad Rader, one of Disney's best storyboard artists will be attending the Gathering in Orlando next month along with Thom "Voice of Lexington" Adcox and myself.

Brad worked on multiple episodes of GARGOYLES, including:
"Legion"
"The Mirror"
"City of Stone, Part One"
"City of Stone, Part Four"
"Revelations"
"Upgrade"
"Protection"
"Kingdom"
"Monsters"
"The Hound of Ulster"
"The New Olympians"
"The Gathering, Part One"
"The Gathering, Part Two"
"Hunter's Moon, Part Two"

Now GATHERING 2000 is truly a can't miss event. Hope to see you there.

Greg Weisman
Friday, July 14, 2000 07:27:32 PM
IP: pool0794.cvx6-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net

** END REPOST **
Patrick Toman
Saturday, July 15, 2000 06:04:58 AM
IP: ac94e345.ipt.aol.com

*Warpmind enters, taking a few potshots at DC for the unnecessary near-48-hours absence.*
The CR lives again... good.

Shadowrider: Yup, those are just examples of that delightful series of religios jests. :)

DPH: Maybe a solid lock on your door would keep your father from waking you up prematurely? ;)

Cyborg: Actually, 25 degrees isn't all that hot for me - I spent the summer months in my mother's womb with temperatures in the thirties... I guess it kind of made me immune. :) Oh, and no, I haven't heard the one about the Greek father who gave his son a tour of the town...

Christine: Greg has stated a one-egg-per-breeding-cycle law? Hm, I must have missed that one... But I agree with you - oughtta be the likelihood of twins or triplets, in the least. Oh, and do sign me up for an advance copy of Black Roses, will ya? :)

Curly++: I doubt it would be ethically appropriate for me to join your church - I'm already an ordained minister. :) ULC, if you wanted to know. If you want more details, you might want to ask Reverend Attila, Green Baron's cat. :)

Daniel Johnson: You're absolutely right. Killing an enemy for no other reason than that he's an enemy is foolish. Much better to trap him in lifelong suffering, I say. That way, you get both revenge AND entertainment. ;)

Gside: Um, I wasn't aware of any syrup called Jemima... my mind was (almost solely) on the cut little kitty in the musical, played by Veerle Casteleyn. :)

Well, gotta go. Oh, and I now have a guestbook on my website - please leave your mark there. (But don't piss on the Persian rug, or I'll use you to clean up the stain!) ;)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, July 15, 2000 06:02:58 AM
IP: mp-217-216-69.daxnet.no

Warpmind> <<You really believed me?>>: You do have to realize, that as a tenor sax who's played the stuff before, the music is the first thing that comes to my mind.
<<I'd better see if there's any updates on that Jemima shrine>>: I've never really liked syrup myself. Shame since we have a steady supply of new Hampshie maple.

Mrs. Morgan> Congratulations on the contract.
<<"Junkyard Wars." Tim loves that show!>>: Think the best part might be when they fail, and you get to see just how badly they fail.

CtB> <<I thought the Traveling Wilburys were the coolest thing I'd ever seen>>: Lately, on my commute to Rutgers, there have been two tapes I have listened to every time, Wilburys Vol 1, and Cannon.
<<[Ringo] appeared with the surviving Wilburys in the video for Tom Petty's song "Stand My Ground,">>: I Won't Back Down, but it's an understandable mistake (both counts).
Ever heard of the Silver Wilburys? Quite interesting, I got an mp3 of Dylan, Harrison, Taj Mahal, and John Fogerty doing Proud Mary, and it was labeled with that group name.

Curly++> <<The soul is a butterfly wing in the weather of human society>>: And a butterfly can cause a hurricane a thousand miles away.
<<still have access to the experimental technique if the the normal treatment doesn't do a good enough job>>: It is good that you have the option open.
<<Sorry, I should have checked>>: Not a problem, just lets me check my (lack of) sanity more often.

Winterwolf> <<looks like I wasn't the only one>>: With at timestamp jump of Thurs 9:30 to Fri 4:40? Yeah, I'd say so.

Daniel Jahnson> <<I'm getting DSL>>: Enjoy the bandwidth.
<<ViaVoice speech dictation>>: Fun. Though it doesn't seem to be very good with odd characters. It threw me off for a second when I didn't see your dash comment seperators. Supposedly, a lot of voice recognition problems are solved by having a camera look a the mouth to see the position of the lips.

Sev. Jr.> <<cropping off the tops and bottoms of the screen>>: Wouldn't they actually add previously cropped sides, if it was originally filmed as such?

Archwolf> <<2400mg>>: I wonder why they don't just say 2.4 grams.

Gasper> <<middle management nobodies. Well, I'll say this. I don't think anyone here is gonna end up like that>>: I'll probably be one step below that. But hopefully, I'll get to play with all the fun toys.
<<Baron Munchausen>>: Hoo yah.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, July 15, 2000 02:17:11 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

Ya know....reality.....You've tried to Fark me over so many times....well....
*Pulls out a Blaster Carbine and point's it at Realities Head.* Let's get this straight. I make my own fate....relatively, but I don't have to live in you. I'll let ya live....relatively speaking, but I'll tell you this once....*Puts the barrell up to his neck, pushing and grinding it in.* But I don't have to let you bother these nice people. See...I know you types. YOu like to come in and get it into peoples heads they have to be middle management nobodies. Well, I'll say this. I don't think anyone here is gonna end up like that any time in this life time. I won't take up anymore of your time, but a famous guy said something once....

"Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm
delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever."

Baron Munchausen, hardy har har. *Pulls the carbine up and blasts him in the side of the head, exposing brain tissue, but keeping him alive. Doctors and EMT's come by, pick him up, and hours later, he is in a vegitative state, unable to communicate with the outside world. His eyes see a Dragoon standing over him, smilin'.* Reality Bites, don't it...



End little RP*****************

Pardon the swearing. My bad. Just had to get a point. Screw Destiny, screw Reality. Choose your own path in life. And don't let these factors come into play. It ain't bloddy worth it. Just a friendly neighborhood service announcement from the Dragoon playing with 4 at the moment. She got a good hit in today, made my head ring a little...


Reality, you on the other hand, if you ever come out of that vegitable state I put you in, because I feel you need a lesson, can kiss my Rosey Red Arse. *Smacks the Vegitable around with his fist.* Enjoy buddy. Let's see ya do something now?



(Boy...am I asking for trouble or what....eh heh heh heh.)

Sorry, had to get my two cents in. Enjoy.
Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Saturday, July 15, 2000 01:10:26 AM
IP: 209.83.84.4

I am now the proud owner of my very own computer! I am sitting in my room alone with this baby and I never felt so free. I just saw X-Men and even though I didn't really know much about the story at first, I thought it kicked @$$! If Gargoyles ever ends up in the theater (we hope) then I want it to look like that!
SOROW
Saturday, July 15, 2000 12:53:39 AM
IP: dll2a030-0801.splitrock.net

*Archwolf enters wearing a knee brace on each knee. Warfrost takes a look around, pisses on Reality, then engages Canyon in a game of tag*

Greetings to all (except Reality..you can just f@ck off...each person is free to determine thier own reality, and how to employ it).

Got the results from my doctor's visit. Nothing in my knees is ripped or torn. They are just both arthritic. Not a good thing for a fencer. Oh well. The doctor seems to think that they will be fine for fencing (as long as i don't mind the aches and pains.). The thing that concerns me is that along with XRays, he has me signed up for blod work. Seems he thinks that some pain killers I was taking may have damaged my kidneys (I was taking like 1200mg of Advil a day) then he prescribes 2400mg of Ibuprofen per day. Sheesh. I hate pain killers.

Anyhew.

SJ>I am glad to hear your father does not have Caner.

Shadow Rider>19 September, huh? Well. I'l just have to callup a certain dance agency and reserve that date......

Kit and Doug>Still trying to find the WoT email. The information rates at 8 of 10 in reliability. Another note: R.J. has given the rights to Eye of the World to the ppl who did the Merlin miniseries a while back. Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Just have to wait and see.

Demona's Redemption> Has TGS really show Demona being redeamed, or just sliding towards 'neutral and awiating more info'? I mean, if she were really redeaming her self, wouldn't she be doing more than supporting an artist? Even that is self-serving. By helping PIT, she helps the gargoyles to survive as a race. This really isn't a big departure from her previouse mindset (except for the fact that she lost the 'and kill the humans to do it' mindset). She saved Elisa because it would have hurt Angela if she had died, and she realized that Elisa has been a help to the gargoyle cause as well. Two instances hardly make her reformed.

Christine>Gratz on the contract!

Well, I gotta get up early tomorrow to abuse my knees more
Shade and sweet water
Archwolf - [archwolf@collegeclub.com]
Friday, July 14, 2000 11:34:40 PM
IP: pumpkin-a-02.mcmurray.nb.net

*enters*

Ugh. Hot day today. X.x On my way home from the doctor's (I had to walk along the highway, don't ask) these two older black men were walk in my direction. Now, I'm afraid that living in an almost all-white town has made me wary of blacks (though I swear I'm not racist), but these guys were smoking, drinking and I was really wondering why they weren't at work (I'm guessing they didn't have a job). Then one of them looks at me and says "Hey Sweetie!" and not in a nice way. >:P What they hell is up here!?! Do I have to beat the perverts off with a stick??? I think I'm actually going to have to use a can of Mace on these guys. :P
Mary Flanders
Friday, July 14, 2000 11:22:46 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

Since the comment room has been down for a while, and thus things have been a little quiet in the CR, I only have a few things tonight:

It's now been CONFIRMED that Jimmy Smits will be in the next Star Wars movie, but not as a Jedi (which was the rumor). Instead he'll be playing the role of Bail Organa, who as you all know becomes Leia's foster father. It's been pointed out that there was a rumored love triangle supposedly taking place between Amidala, Anakin, and Bail....I'm hoping that this is not the case now, in the new movie. Maybe it's just me, but I would feel kind of oogey seeing Jimmy Smits, a man approaching middle-age, seeking the affections of the young Natalie Portman. Still, I'm very happy that Smits was cast. I've always liked him as an actor, and I'm glad to see him in the movie.

Bablyon 5 fans: It's been announced that when the Sci Fi channel begins airing Bab 5 reruns (starting Sept 25 at 7 p.m.), they will be in widescreen, letterbox format. JMS originally shot all the season episodes in a letterbox format, and now we will finally see the show in that way. I'm a bit concerned with them cropping off the tops and bottoms of the screen, but hey, any Bab 5 is welcome.

Curly: The idea of conventry is intriguing, but ultimately I do not feel that it would work in the long run. You're not recognizing the fact that some inmates are just too violent and unstable to function in ANY society, even one formed in the camp. There are some who simply can not be rehabilitated. For the camp society to work, all the members must work together, and there would be a fair number of inmates, I feel, who would just simply not care enough to participate. Or, in the worse case scenario (and don't think I'm saying this *would* happen, because it probably wouldn't. But still....), you could have the inmates create some bizarre, twisted criminal society like in Escape from New York...
Then again, I really do not like any sort of camp idea. It comes across to me as too much like Skinner's "Walden Two", which, frankly, horrified me. Perhaps it is a rather extreme reaction on my part, but I equate the kind of social conditioning used in Skinner's Walden with the dystopia found in Orwell's '84. Of course, the point of using such a camp would be to socially condition the inmates to actually behave themselves. This is noble, but I'm just not optimistic enough to feel that it would work well.

Mary: I enjoyed that episode of Tenchi Muyo as well. Most of my previous perceptions of Washu came from the movies, so I didn't really know much of her backstory. I thought the background info on her, and her husband / baby, really helped define her character. It was a sad tale, too, but I'm glad they punctuated it with all the humor at the end, to help lighten the mood.

Dark Endings: There are some stories where they are just not appropriate, but I like dark endings, most specifically because they're realistic. Although some of us may want happy endings all the time (and you have every right to do so), I feel that, occasionally, a darker or unsavory ending is necessary. Take the movie Se7en, or Fight Club.....you know neither movie could end with the good guys riding off into the sunset. But also, you wuldn't expect a Pokemon movie to end with something like the bloodbath in Scarface (although one can only dream....). I think dark endings are sort of like Mounds and Almond Joy candy bars--sometimes you feel like a horrifying, unhappy finale, sometimes you don't.

Reality: I've always thought that reality is overrated. 9 out of 10 users of certain chemical substances agree with me.
BTW, whoever you are, funny joke. Next time don't be so serious, though, we like it goofy in here. >:p
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Friday, July 14, 2000 11:15:48 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Hey all! Just a quickie.

*** X-Men Spoiler ***

Oh My God that was one of the best movies I have ever seen! I just got home from seing it. I ~highly~ recomend seeing it. The casting was wonderful dispite my contrary belief. The makeup is Fantastic. Mystique, well I would hate to be the actress who plays her, to have little spikes glued to your nipples is a disturbing thought. Wolverine's claws are... ooohhhhhhh...
*Janine melts to the floor*

***End X-Men Spoiler, on account of I'm a pool on the floor***
J. R. - [Purple_Pixy@hotmail.com]
Friday, July 14, 2000 09:39:42 PM
IP: phx-209.treknet.net

Good, the comment room is back up. I was going into withdrawal.

Yes! I'm getting DSL. Cool. And now I'm practicing using ViaVoice speech dictation. It works quite well, as you can see.

You know, reality is not very bright. Why give a hotmail address while posting from an America Online account? Doesn't it know how to create a new AOL address? Why give an address at all? I'll never understand reality. This is a good thing. :)

Welcome to all the newbies! Yes, even reality. A little reality every now and then helps to throw our insanity into sharp relief. I'm sorry, but I'm too tired right now to look up everyone's name.

Christine:
Congratulations on the book contract. Looking forward to Another Shameless Plug. 8:00 p.m. Pacific time? Let's see: that's 11:00 p.m. Eastern time. Hopefully I'll be awake.

Death penalty:
Didn't we have this discussion in the other comment room? All I'll say is that if even one person is executed by mistake that is one person too many. That is my main objection to the death penalty. On the issue of burning people alive for killing horses, there is a difference between wishing for such a thing to happen and actually doing it. And no, I would not condone such a thing.

Stephen:
My condolences. That really sucks. I'm sure you can find somewhere better.

For some reason I don't seem to have much to say right now. But, I did want to play with ViaVoice for a while. :)

Doug just reminded me of a couple of things.

As far as gargoyle aging goes, I was thinking about Demona. She is immortal and therefore has as much time as she wants in which to act. As we saw in "Hunter's Moon" she is capable of long-range planning. However, in "Long Way Till Morning" she demonstrated extreme impatience. In fact, she often acts impulsively. Just something I thought of.

In regards to the "you'll be as bad as your enemy" cliche, killing someone in cold blood is bound to take a toll on anyone's emotional and spiritual health. If it doesn't, one might be considered a psychopath. Look where revenge killing got Demona. And Macbeth realized the futility of revenge at the last moment. I always liked Xanatos's quote "Revenge is a sucker's game". Even the villain realizes how pointless it is to seek revenge. Killing someone in self-defense or to protect someone else is one matter; killing someone simply because they are your enemy is very different.

I guess I had a lot more to say that I thought. But this speech dictation software is fun! :)

Oops, I missed something else: welcome back Jannie!
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Friday, July 14, 2000 08:34:34 PM
IP: ppp-30.rb5.exit109.com

Here's a quick Xmen thought. The movie is made by 20th Century Fox. Now they've been replaying old Dungeon & Dragon eps to promote their movie. How come they didn't do the same for the X-men. Maybe I'm just getting greedy. I'd like to see Xmen again for this season's crop of cartoons. They're not terrible, but nothing I'm scrambling in the morning to watch.
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Friday, July 14, 2000 08:17:16 PM
IP: 233.santabarbara-01rs13-14rt.ca.dial-access.att.net

*DPH successfully completes a micro (less than 1/2 ") drill attack on one of DC's teeth. He proceeds to drill more of DC's teeth but DC teleports away. "That is for shutting down the room."*

I finally found out which weekends I have to do overtime. This weekend and every other weekend afterwards.

Religion - I do not follow this but this drives me nuts logically: The gurus of the hindu religion. If they are all in touch with the one god, the same 'truths' should flow out of everyone one of their mouths. Yet, I am willing to bet they all contradict each other on same basic 'truths'. If there is one truth, it should be this: "Always do the right thing.". Figuring out what the right thing to do involves considering all points of view.

*DC slips back in the CR, thinking DPH did not see him. DPH quickly proceeds to launch another micro drill attack on DC's teeth. "You can bother Reality, but do not bother us." DC nods in agreement and leaves.*
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Friday, July 14, 2000 08:02:01 PM
IP: max1-21.cwy.cei.net

well, I've returned from one of the best times I've had on vacation in ages! Missouri was beautiful and it was grand seeing old classmates and friends :) The reunion went well, despite the winch who is the banquet director at the lodge. I finally warned her that I was wearing pantyhose and not to mess with me anymore. (I HATE pantyhose) Anyway, good turnout and a great time! My mom spoiled me rotten all week. *hugs mom*
The only downside to the week was that I missed Denis, Juanita and my son Michael.

Surgery update: *shakes head* I was SUPPOSE to have my stomach surgery today.... but they called yesterday and told me that it was cancelled b/c some doctor had recommended that I have a cardiac work-up before surgery and they wouldn't do the surgery before this was done. Ok, fine. But, they tell me this less than 24 hours before I was suppose to have the surgery?? *fumes* So, I've been frantically trying to get a cardiac exam - which I don't need - so that I could have surgery on Monday. Finally, I have a consult with a cardiologist on Tuesday and possibly surgery on Wednesday. My biggest concern is recovery time since I'll be going to Orlando on the 31st. This gives me only 11 days of recovery time. The appt. for the surgery has been set for over 3 weeks and they are just now telling me about the cardiac requirement. *growls*

Curly++ > "As for rapists and murders, there are plenty of studies showing that capital punishment not only does not work as a deterrent, it even has a very slight opposite effect. Yes, you prevent a second offense by *that* bastard, but you also enhance the copy cat effect. In other words, it does not protect society, but increases the danger.
I like the idea of Coventry. Take a large area, fence it off, make a reservation for criminals. Or a bunch of reservations for so petty theives are not subjects of rapists and murderers. Keep the guards *outside* the fence and let the criminals run their own country where they cannot threaten good people. "
You know, I always hear people say about these "studies" that the death penality does not deter behavior, but I've never actually seen one. I don't even know if that's the intent of capital punishment. It's the consequences of the crime *shrugs*
You really think criminals would stay within a confined fenced area? Who's going to pay for this, anyway? I say fry their ass and stop costing the taxpayers their upkeep.
Yes, I'm from Texas and I have no problem with being from the state with the highest execuations in the USA.
Jannie
Friday, July 14, 2000 07:47:25 PM
IP: 209-144-251-209.hou.port.mytelco.com

**RP HERE**

The screen clicks on to display an opulently-furnished room full of Arabian d้cor. Sitting in the center of it on ottomans beside a large crystal ball on a pedestal are Abdullah and a skeletally-thin man in green and yellow robes with long scraggly dark hair and beard. "Alright, Jazeem," Abdullah says to the strange man. "I've sat down. Now what is it?" His associate grins, waving a long-nailed hand at the crystal ball. "Just wanted you to know I picked up the location of the people you wanted me to eliminate." Abdullah looks in the crystal and grimaces, seeing Mist, Erin, and Gubio standing inside an elevator with Terrell. "They're in the Underground City," he growls. "This does not bode well. Why have you not killed them as I instructed?" Jazeem shrugs, chuckling. "Sport first. Not to mention research. Don't worry, my friend. I've already alerted our agents in the City to their presence, they will not find the nuclear warhead we have there even if they should discover its existence. I've also dispatched my slave genie to attack and destroy them. He should reach the Underground City soon." "Excellent," Abdullah smiles. "I doubted you only for a moment, sorcerer. Carry on with your work. I have to go check on the progress of other ventures." Jazeem nods, grinning back. "You don't have to worry about me." He then turns back to the crystal ball and gazes into it as Abdullah leaves.

The camera moves in on the scene visible within the crystal, which soon expands to fill the picture. Gubio and Erin step off the elevator, Terrell and Mist just behind. The caiveh waves them to follow him and they head across a bridge connecting the pillar to the stalactite-building network above the Underground City. Several caiveh pass them, many frowning at the sight of humans in their home, while others just nod greeting and then move on. Terrell says hello to a few of them, but only exchanges brief words as they head for a large stalactite in the center of the network. "This is the place?" Gubio asks as they reach it. Terrell nods and holds the door open for them as they walk in. "Vincent speaks excellent English," Erin tells Gubio. "You don't need to worry about a language barrier." "I guessed that already," Gubio nods as they walk down a hall and turn right into a small outer office. A female caiveh sits behind a desk in the room. Terrell speaks to her for a moment in the strange caiveh language of purrs and growls, and she nods, then waves them towards the door in the back. Gubio and Erin follow Terrell through it, the former frowning a little as he goes. Nodding at the receptionist, Mist brings up the rear. Inside the inner office, Vincent sits behind a desk going over some paperwork. Terrell coughs to get his attention and he looks up and smiles. "Ah, Terrell," the caiveh leader says in English. "Welcome. And welcome to you too, Erin Bey. It has been a long time." He stands up and walks around the desk to bow in greeting to Erin. She returns the gesture and smiles. "Also good to see you, Vincent. This is Gubio and Mist, some friends of mine." "Hello," Gubio replies, and Mist meows the same. Vincent nods. "Welcome. It is good to meet friends of Erin. Any friends of hers are mine as well. Terrell told me you all were coming, and that you needed help only we could provide. Please sit down and tell me of the problem. I promise we will aid you as best we can." "Thank you," Erin nods, taking a seat in one of two visitors' chairs. Gubio smiles and takes the other as Mist and Terrell stand at attention beside the walls. "Before we start," Gubio tells Vincent, "I want to express my condolences for the pain you go through everyday, losing Catherine and all." Vincent nods, sighing. "You saw the story on television, I assume. They did not tell it all correctly, but they did get many of the main points." He is silent for a moment, then shakes his head. "Well, that's the distant past. No use talking much about it. Tell me what help you need from me and my kind." "It's a long story," Erin says. "You have some free time?" Vincent nods. "Very much of it. Please begin." Gubio nods and begins bringing him up to date on the Ravens and their troubles as the screen's image fades.

**END FIRST BIT OF THIS POST'S RP**

Good evening CR dwellers. I'm back once again. :) And I'm much happier than I was last time. My summer classes are over now, so are Kit's, and in the few days that remain of this week before we have to start working full time for the next month or so, we are finally getting the chance to enjoy our summer vacation. About time. <grins> So forgive me if I'm unusually cheerful tonight, I have good reason. :) Now on to comments and replies.

Fanfic Stuff: Me, I write fanfic both for my own enjoyment and that of others. The attention of others to my fanfic, however, is very important to me, far more than satisfying my creativity demons and getting their nagging voices out of my mind. Thus I always wish I would get more feedback than I do. :( And I'm still wishing that too. <sigh> I think I'll be waiting till I get a little more on NotS 3 than the one bit I've gotten so far before I begin work on the next story. If I do. I don't know what's wrong, but even though I've had free time to work on my stories since yesterday I haven't been able to. I don't feel burned out, it's not writer's block, it's more like I've lost the will to write, the interest. Very strange. I can still write RP segments and posts like this one, but fanfic just won't come out of my mind. I don't know why, but it won't. Needless to say, this is very disturbing to me. I hope it will soon pass. <sighs> Maybe if I give it a day or two.

**WARNING- SPOILERS AND REVIEW FOR X-MEN**

Saw this movie before posting, due to the CR being down. Speaking of which…. <throws DC into a room with a rabid Sabertooth, Toad, and Wolverine, locks the door, and ignores the screams> Okay, better. :) The X-Men movie was surprisingly good. After reading the awful comic book adaptation of it, I was disturbed and quite disappointed. Now, after seeing the actual film, I feel much better. This movie was just plain great in many ways. Every actor did an excellent job in their role, the dialogue was well-paced and very character-developing (Wolverine- "It's me, not Mystique." Cyclops- "Prove it." Wolverine- "You're a dick." Cyclops nods. L); there were a lot of great comedy bits, and they actually made the plot interesting and enjoyable even though it felt very comic bookish. :) Hugh Jackman made an excellent Wolverine, Anna Paquin did a good job as Rogue, and Patrick Stewart was as expected a brilliant Xavier, but what I was really surprised by was the job Ian MacKellen did as Magneto. His was the most well-acted part in the film IMO. Everyone else's was great too, even the actors who played bit parts like Senator Kelly and the student cameos such as Iceman, Kitty, etc. The effects were also wondrous of course, they spent the most money on them and got their money's worth in spades. Also enjoyed the direction, how all the mutants used their powers, and the plot's many surprising twists. It had a great script too (written by someone named David Hayter, I can't help but wonder if it's the same guy who played Solid Snake in Metal Gear Solid a few years back. Same name). And there was dynamic action helped by the talents of preformers like Ray Park and so on (I liked the pose of his that Heather pointed out too :). All in all, my only real problems with the film were a couple of plot holes, the fact that they used the ressurection staple of superhero films (somebody apparently dies but then they're alive again, that got irritating in the comics and was pretty much the same in the movie- except for what was done with Mystique), and that the rumor Robby told me last night about this film getting almost an hour of material cut from it was true. I'm really wondering what we missed out on. <sighs> Still, what we got was great. 9.5/10, thumbs up and my recommendation. Go see X-Men and enjoy!

**X-MEN SPOILERS END**

Raven, Acyn, Sidritch, Oracle, Icarus: Welcome, new friends. That's hopefully what you'll all turn out to be. <grin> May this room and the people within do all we can to enrich your reading and your lives. :)

Killing the Villain Makes You Like Him: I too dislike this clich้, yet I agree with Todd that it was appropriate in Awakenings and Dragon Graveyard. Usually it's not a very good argument, but there are exceptions. Sometimes it also turns out to be true. <cackles about possible future fanfic plans> But like all cliches, this one is best when it's not used too much, if used at all. :)

Curly++: Glad you didn't think I was being bossy. :) I can certainly agree with what you said about principles and why one must live up to them. Thanks for letting me know of yours and aiding my understanding. Don't worry, your newbie status shouldn't last too much longer. Especially since the discussion that caused mistakes on your part is now past. <shrugs> I too congratulate you on coming as far as you have in fixing the tumor, hope that soon the waiting will be over and you'll have it fully gone. :)
<an undefined God who wants no church but just might listen to individuals.> Hmm, never thought about God that way before. I think you might have something there though. Something that sounds a lot better than the usual church stuff I've heard. :) Good bits about the soul and the meaning of life too.

Stephen: Congratulations on fixing your scanner and getting a new printer. Sorry that you lost your job though. I wish you good luck finding a new one soon. <Volunteer to write for TGS> I've thought about doing that many times. If I had the will and the time, I would, but… <sighs> Oh well. You'll probably be glad to know that I too am often dismayed when people complain about things that don't suit them in TV shows, movies, series, and so on. Unless I agree with them about it, and then, well, that's different. <shrugs> I believe there's no harm in stating opinions either, like I said last week. Especially when, as Airwalker said, they can provide needed criticism and help us writers (and other artisans as well) improve our craft.

As far as the next season of TGS and what I want to see in it, I don't have much to add to what's already been said. But I do agree with Kit that we need more introspection and showcased character development on the Clan and its various nemeses. Hope we get it. Also want to see more of Thailog, the Ultra-Pack, Dracon, and Coldsteel in villainous roles. Demona and Xanatos can stay the way they are now, but we should see a little evidence of regression in them too now that the threat of the Unseelie is over and they don't have a super-ordinate goal to keep them completely allied with the clan. Of course, they may have found new reasons to be so, and if so, we should see those and how the characters in question thought of and decided to act upon them explored too. :) Hope we do, and also that most of the episodes this season are Manhattan-centric. I wouldn't mind a World Clans Gathering at this early date, but Goliath and the others' relations and interaction with the rest of the world's clans shouldn't take up the entire plot. Nor, if conflicts occur in those relations (as they should), should they all be completely resolved this season. The issues of human-gargoyle relations shouldn't be completely resolved this season, either, though they do need to be concentrated on in at least a few episodes. The so-called utopia of the future may be ahead for humans and gargoyles, but the road to it should be realistically long and hard. And not just because happy endings (and many other important events in stories) are best when they come after a lot of buildup. :)

Dark Endings: I too enjoy seeing them as much as happy endings for all the reasons others have posted before now. Thus I too hope to see more of them in the upcoming season. But of course there need to be many happy ending alongside them to balance things out. <grin> The only kind of endings I won't tolerate are those that leave lots of important things unresolved and then those things don't get resolved in what seems like an eternity, if ever. Final Fantasy 7 and a few other otherwise impressive video games have had endings like this, and upset me therefore. May TGS never follow their example.

Garg Aging and its Effects on Their Psychology: Kit, Zath, and Daniel have stated my opinion on this issue, I won't say much more than what they have. However I do think I should point out this- Does time flow more slowly for someone just because their lifespan lasts for more increments of it than someone else's lifespan does? No, it doesn't. At least there's no evidence I've ever seen that says it does. Has anyone else seen some? I'm not saying out perception of time can't alter its flow for us, or that we can't learn and mature differently based on the differing amounts of time we each have. We can. But that doesn't mean we do. All sentient creatures undergo frustration, impatience, eagerness, and other motivations to learn and grow quickly- gargoyles as well as humans, immortals as well as mortals. As Kit said, there is much evidence of this on the show. Those of us who live longer can be more patient, but even they can change and develop in a short time if they have the proper reasons to do so. That's what I think anyway. Another thing- like Daniel's pointed out, sometimes it's imperative we learn what we need to know as soon as possible. Particularly in a dangerous world where you might not live three hundred years or whatever your natural lifespan is even if you have the potential to do so. Every time a human walks out into the street, they risk getting hit and killed by a car. Every time a gargoyle goes to sleep, they risk the possibility of getting smashed before sunset and never waking up. That, IMO, can be a powerful motivation to learn as much as you can about the world and mature as quickly as possible, even if you're supposed to have all the time in the world. A mayfly is born, lives, eats, drinks, mates, breeds, and dies all in the same day. It uses the time it has well. Even if other creatures have more time, they can undergo a similar process given the right motivation. Particularly if they're intelligent, and can realize that even if they may live a thousand years, they could also die in a few minutes. To quote Blade Runner- "We don't know how long we have together. Who does?" When talking about the passage of time for intelligent beings, one must remember that we never really know how much we have left. That can apply to a lot of things besides maturation rates. There, that's all I have to say about that.

Gside: Glad you've been spared awful teasing in your lifetime but thanks for giving your sympathies to those of us who have not been. We all deal with it in our own ways. Some of us are able to triumph over it, and they are to be commended. Those who don't are to be helped to do so ASAP. :) Friends can aid the process more than anything else. (Now that's a good quote. :)

Taleweaver: I agree with you on the pacing of Demona's redemption. I don't think she's permanently reformed at the present moment in TGS either. Reformation is much more believable and lasting IMO when one tries to adjust to the world around them instead of having that world adjust to accommodate them. Of course, even if they do try to adjust, that process can be reversed and shown not to be complete yet in a number of ways. I'd say more, but it might create mega-spoilers for my fanfic.

Bronx: <grimaces> I too am quite upset over what happened to those horse friends of yours. My grandfather owns a ranch, and in my youth I had many a wonderful time riding the horses there. The horses in question were always killed and sold to the local glue and dog food factories when they got too old, and I always feel sad about that whenever I think about it (though I've never protested it, of course, they're my grandfather's horses and he can do with them as he will). Hearing of thirty-one horses burned to death for no good reason is even more terrible. May the perpetrator get punished with more than a slap on the wrist.

Mary: Glad those vandals you and your sis had to deal with got caught. I too would be angry if someone vandalized my car. :) May their punishment be long, hard, and lesson-teaching.

SOROW: Welcome back. Glad you had a good camping trip, but it's great to have you back in here too. :)

SJ: Good point about Demona's redemption, I too have sometimes wondered whether she really deserves it. But then I remember how she used to be and all the reasons I have for pitying her and I change my mind. I do still get creativity demons about her never changing, though. Some of them are fun. <Scene- Demona rampages into the Universal Shipping office (of Futu-rama fame) in the year 3000 and kills many of the annoying characters she finds within in an appropriate manner. She is about to shoot Bender when he says, "Hey there lady. You wanna kill all humans?" She nods, grinning evilly, and then blows him away too. L> Glad your father is recovering and doesn't have cancer after all. May his tumors soon be fixed by the doctors, and thanks for keeping us up to date. :)

Blade Runner: This film ranks with Return of the Jedi, Spaceballs, and Terminator as one of my all-time favorite sci-fi movies. Especially in the original version with the great happy ending, voice-overs that help fill in the story and make it meaningful, human Deckard (I agree with Kit that his character works best if human, though him being a replicant has intriguing possibilities too), and no weird unicorn that adds nothing to the plot. Mainly I like the film because of its great character development, script, and bits on what it means to be human and live in this world. The soundtrack, cinematography, and visual effects are great too, but of course nothing compares to the characters and their dialogue. :) Everything is charged with meaning and emotion, for the story and characters and often for real life too. Seeing it requires deep thought, but that's something easy to apply if you're motivated. Roy Batty's death speech is indeed one of the greatest last-words soliloquoys of all time, so great I want it carved on my own tombstone. This and other moments when the themes of life, death, and survival are expressed and explored are always intresting and cool to watch. If you want a film with much to say about life and other issues as well as intriguing characters and a wonderful plot and script, I definitely recommend you see Blade Runner. Maybe you won't enjoy it as much as I did, but I think it's at least a good way to spend time, much better than many of today's films. Fans of my stories might spot a few things I was inspired by in the movie too (where did you think Rachel got her name? :).

Green Baron: Congrats on achieving an easier and more beneficial relationship with your father. Kit gives the same, she's sorry she didn't say it before. I'm glad you too have been able to find things you can agree on, may the good relations between you continue. :) Also glad you enjoyed the Patriot, it is indeed a classic historical film and another great movie for Emmerich and Gibson to add to their roster. :) May they have many more (and few to none like Godzilla) ahead. :) I also agree with you about Tavington and Sherman. $ The latter is going to get what he deserves in the RP in the future, by the way, if the Ravens can stop him from burning Atlanta again. :) Good job giving the Orange Order what-for. $

Christine: Good luck with your in-laws, hope the visit with them goes well and will end before problems are created. Thanks for letting me know the adult fanfic you critiqued and praised is up, I'll read it. Will read Another Shameless Plug too when it gets up. :)

Ironwolf: Congrats on getting to meet Laurell Hamilton. I haven't read her books very much myself, they're a bit too weird for my taste, but Kit thinks they're classics and she's probably right. :) Ms. Hamilton is definitely right about characters sometimes writing their own development in ways you never intended. <grin> Welcome back.

Robby: $ Your plans for the Ten sound agreeable to me, as do your reasons for them. Hope you get more free time soon. That also goes for everyone. Don't worry, we'll do our best to keep the RP lively before and after the Ten thread starts up again. :) $

Shadowrider: <moment of silence for Masimo Trossi> I too did not know he was dead. Guess that's what happens when you see an excellent actor in one movie, get impressed by and enjoy his preformance, but then never bother to check on him again. <sighs> May he have gone on to a better place and may the wonderful entertainment he brought us while alive remain available forever. Hope your friend Nicola gets back to writing soon too. I'm glad we've been able to help you help him regain his confidence. You can tell him my stepfather Enzo really liked the poem too if you want. If your friend has e-mail, maybe I could even get Enzo to make some more specific and direct comments. I bet he'd enjoy that. :) Thanks also for telling us when your military service begins, good luck with it. We'll miss you while you're doing it and eagerly wait for you to get back.

Reality: I don't know who you are, but I don't think I appreciate your words or your tone that much. You are wrong about this place being insignificant, it certainly isn't to us. We also enjoy being outcasts with warped minds, even though we are only so from a certain point of view. We'll thank you to please leave us alone and go bother someone who actually cares what you think.

Kyryn: Hope Okami's car gets fixed soon, sorry to hear it died. May the problem be cheap to repair and nothing too terrible.

Siryn: A life-drawing workshop for G2000? Sounds interesting, thanks for telling us about it. I will be interested to look at the products of the workshop, even if I can't participate since I won't be attending G2000. :( Thanks very much.

Coyote: I agree with you about the Preacher Alamo series finale. It is indeed excellent. What happens with Cassidy and Jesse is great, second only to the excellent scenes involving Tulip and Starr. Everyone in here should definitely check it out if they can. Read the rest of Preacher too, it's one of the best comics of all time. :) Can hardly wait to see what happens in the next and final issue with God and the Saint of Killers. <grin>

And I've reached the top of the CR. :) I had lots to say, didn't I? <shrugs> Sure feels great to have the free time to say this much again. Hope I will have it once more very soon. Same goes for all our other dwellers. Of course, I hope even more that I soon again have the inclination, time, and will to write fanfic. That will come soon though, I am sure. <crosses fingers> While I'm waiting for it, I'll catch up on my reading, see X-Men tomorrow, and otherwise try to enjoy my vacation time. Later, friends!

**BACK TO RP NOW**

The screen comes back on, displaying Area 51 and most of the Ravens standing outside the main building, still wearing the same expressions they had on the last time we saw them. "Keith's right," Tricia is saying. "We may not be fighting demons again any time soon." "Then again you might be," Mansfield counters. "If so, maybe you could use our help. You seemed to be having a lot of trouble fighting those on the Avatar. We may be against you when it comes to fighting Lord Thailog, but demons, a force that threatens the entire world, that's another matter." "Yeah," Leah agrees. "We can fight them too, trust me. And we won't betray you. Sneed and some of the others might have, but Bobby and I won't." "Can we be sure of that?" Stephanie asks in a doubting tone of voice. "I think we can," Tom says. "Let's at least give them a chance, okay? Okay?" "Yes, let's do that," Keith rolls his eyes. "Then the next time we meet Thailog we can have them turn on us and be forced to fight people who might have almost become our friends." "Fine!" Leah snarls at him. "You guys figure it out. Meanwhile, we're going to go sit back in our cage and be bored almost to death. Come on, Bobby." Mansfield nods, shakes his head at the Ravens, and then follows Leah as she storms off. "What?" Keith asks as Tom, Jammer, Lathrop, Orion, Boris, and Elena all glare at him. "What did I say?" "Never mind," Elena snaps, looking at Kit. "Look, I understand why those two might not be easily trusted, but they seem like good people deep down. Shouldn't we at least…?" Kit sighs. "I don't know. What do the rest of you think?" "I think it'd be nuts to take them with us," Stephanie says. "Best to just leave them here if we can, or let them go. Either way, we don't have to worry about them for now." "But come on," Jammer counters, "they want to help us. Couldn't we use them?" "We could," Orion says. "Our side can always use more soldiers, against the demons if not Thailog." "You've got a point," Tricia nods. "Maybe we can make good enough friends with them to get them to tell us where Thailog's secret base is too. If they know." "Yes, if," Lathrop nods in agreement. "I don't think we should leave them here personally. Agent Rho's got enough to do shuttling supplies to the Avatar without guarding prisoners. And if we let them go, they could go back to Thailog and we'd have to fight them again." "If they betray us later, we'll have to fight them again anyway," Keith points out. "At least they'll be temporarily neutralized if we leave them here." "But guys," Tom frowns, "if they want to help us, shouldn't we give them a chance?" "Yeah," Boris agrees. "They could save our lives and help us a lot. Who knows?" "It's you guys' decision," Anthony says when everyone looks at him. "But let me point out, I'm here to help you and you guys don't even know me. Yet you're trusting me. Might it be the same with them?" Kit frowns, looking pensive. "Maybe." She glances at Doug. "What do you think?" "Hey, don't ask me," he answers. "I'm the one with the memory problems, remember? How would I know if they're friends or foe?" Kit grimaces. "Right. Oh well, I guess we have a while to think about this while we wait for them to finish fixing the truck. Our first order of business anyway is to call Shap, see what he was so worried about. If that Leah wasn't lying about him, maybe we can trust her." "Emphasis on maybe," says Keith. "Remember who she is." Tom sighs loudly. "You guys go call Shap, there's something I gotta take care of." "Ah, alright," Kit says as he walks away. "I'll call Shap, the rest of you should get some rest, check our supplies, do what we need to before it's time to move out again. We'll head for Santa Fe next so Lathrop can visit his family unless Shap brings up something more urgent." The others nod in agreement and begin heading off. "I'll see you guys later," Agent Rho tells Doug and Kit. "Thank you again for your help." Then he nods and leaves as well. Kit looks at Doug, frowning at the odd look in his eyes. "Are you okay?" "Yeah," he nods. "Just a little worried. But then I have a lot of reasons to be that way, don't I?" "Yeah, you do," Kit sighs. "We all do. Hopefully some more of them will soon be out of the way though. Want to come with me to call Shap?" Doug shakes his head. "Go on. I think I need to use the restroom." "Alright," Kit nods. "See you soon then." She pecks him on the lips, then turns and walks off.

Doug watches her go, smiling and then suddenly frowning as his hand flies to his forehead. "What?" he whispers, gasping in pain. "What's going on?" *Doug,* a voice speaks in his mind. *Douglas Elder, we need to talk.* "Who…," Doug gasps, "who are you?" *I am a friend,* answers the voice. *Come to me. Trust me. There is much I can tell you that you need to know. Come. I will meet you in the main barracks restroom.* Doug nods, looking confused but just the same turning and walking towards the main Area 51 barracks. In a bathroom stall inside that building, the Dark Jedi Jerec smiles as he continues to call Doug to him with the Force and the screen goes dark.

**UH OH, WHAT'S JEREC UP TO? WE'LL FIND OUT NEXT TIME. END RP**
Doug - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Friday, July 14, 2000 07:34:06 PM
IP: pool-209-138-212-227.dlls.grid.net

**Equus looks at DC and with a gesture teleports him into the core of a star going supernova. "Come in. You've wasted enough time trying to get in here." Winterwolf enters the CR. "Now be quick with your post. I have work for you to do."**

Hurray! I can post again! :) I kept getting a server down message before. :( It looks like I wasn't the only one.

Shadowrider> <service> At least you have some good advance notice! I know you mentioned on some levels how you are looking forward to service and going after the pay rate increase is a nice plus. :) We must have a party for you before you leave! What would be the best day and time for you before the 19th of September? We could meet for half an hour to an hour in the chat room. http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/chat/main/ I know there are several that want to attend so just let us know what works for you. ;)

Heather> Hi Heather! You can still go to the Gathering! If you want the offical word check it out at http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/

Wow that's it? I'll see you guys later!

**Winterwolf is removed from the CR in a crimson flash.**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Friday, July 14, 2000 06:18:00 PM
IP: 206.15.120.138

Curly++ runs in to take a look... it's 2PM... I'll just read what's new... well that took a while! Uhm, yeah, I did get interrupted a few times. Now it's 11:30 and the server is down. :-( <Sigh> Ok, 19:30 whew! There it is!


Shadowrider>>
<"And why DO you believe in God?">
Now you're sounding atheist; you sent me scrambling to a dictionary to see if I had the right meaning for agnostic. It seems I don't, but It's close enough. I learned the word as believing in God, but not believing in churches.
Mirriam-Webster has it as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god."
That's actually pretty close to my belief. People keep asking "why are we here?" and I think we are here so each one of us can personally find our own answer to the questions posed by an unknown God. I think we need to find ethics, morality, reason and humanity for ourselves, in our own terms and in our own time. Having been born catholic, I can imagine that if we do well enough searching for these answers, we can move on to another phase of existence. I'm also willing to accept that our "immortal soul" consists of the way we influence the world during our lives, the children we raise, the works we leave behind, the influence for good or evil that we are. The soul is a butterfly wing in the weather of human society.


Warpmind de InzanE>>
<"Sure, I believe in God, but I don't have a shred of faith in His messengers.">
I've think you've got it! I'd invite you to join my church since you are *obviously* qualified, but gee, I can't believe in any church, even if I started it myself!

<that wee thingie?> I don't think she's seen any that have had those stupid fig leaves removed.


Reality>>
Reality sucks.


Gside>>
<Hopefully the people behind it are on the right track.>
I trust my doctor. He believes that the study group is getting the best available treatment, even if it does take an extra six months. The tradeoff is that if I'm in the control group, I get back to my life faster, but still have access to the experimental technique if the the normal treatment doesn't do a good enough job.
<Shouldn't they not tell you?> It seems not to be a blind study. But of course, if it is, giving all the subjects the same expectation by describing a a control group they are *not* in, would make the study even less subject to placebo difference.
<Warpmind said [snip] I though that was me.> Oops! Sorry, I should have checked, but I was in a hurry.
<That might be considered a side effect> Sort of, I guess. A side effect of the month of June and a side effect of having a couple of conditions that require preparation before tests and operations. I actually had one test and the operation postponed for days *after* I was wheeled off for them because the preparations had not been made for a non-conformist like me.


Sevarius Jr.>>
<We're still concerned because he has a tumor around his spine.>
I'll add my prayers, to an undefined God who wants no church but just might listen to individuals.

<Yes, innocent people do get put on death row, but I see that more as the fault of the system>
I responded to your post because you had some thought behind your opinion. Most of the posts on this topic were thought-free rants.
I understand your position. I too have a part of me that says "wipe out the bastards," but I also have a part of me that says killing is wrong. I used to accept the catholic position that makes all kinds of exceptions, but it rings false when the hangman might well know his victim was railroaded and the soldier must know the women and children he has been ordered to gun down are innocent. I'm now down to the only exception being immediate protection of life and only when it is not possible to disable the attacker. Possible being, of course, a relative term.
As for rapists and murders, there are plenty of studies showing that capital punishment not only does not work as a deterrent, it even has a very slight opposite effect. Yes, you prevent a second offense by *that* bastard, but you also enhance the copy cat effect. In other words, it does not protect society, but increases the danger.
I like the idea of Coventry. Take a large area, fence it off, make a reservation for criminals. Or a bunch of reservations for so petty theives are not subjects of rapists and murderers. Keep the guards *outside* the fence and let the criminals run their own country where they cannot threaten good people. How hard would you try to avoid having your life run by "Big Bruce" and his boys? :-)

<If something is just so ridiculously overhyped, I'd rather say "F*** it" and just walk away.>
I've found that over-hyped entertainment is often shallow. So I have to say I often end up taking the same attitude. I don't dislike something because it's hyped, but it definitely goes into the negative side of the decision ledger. Of course, you must understand that I would never say F***, I'd say "poot" instead. :-)


Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Friday, July 14, 2000 05:56:40 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

**enters driving the Caddy and runs over DC on his way in** HAH! Take that, S8 crasher!!

Okay ... now that that unpleasantness is done ... oh wait ... **chooses to carefully ignore Reality since he's already Reality's b*tch, not to mention Murphy's ... Reality and Murphy get in a slapfight over him ...**

Gside: Actually, I thought the Traveling Wilburys were the coolest thing I'd ever seen ... kind of like the ultimate All-Star Band. And then Roy Orbison died and everything went sour ...
Incidentally, I cited Ringo because he appeared with the surviving Wilburys in the video for Tom Petty's song "Stand My Ground," so I assumed that he had become a Wilbury.

Headlights: Oh yeah ... in the interim, I ordered some of the parts necessary to begin construction on the Black Monster ... however, sadly, some jerkwad keyed the new Escort today. Wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the little juvy candidates I live around, the main excuse for why I'm waiting until I sharpen the bottom edge of it before I put the new hood ornament on the Caddy (Yeah, if you *really* want a frickin' hood ornament, you're gonna have to cough up a coupl'a fingers to get it!!!!!).

**WARNING SPOILERS AHEAD!!**

Anyone interested: If at any point in your comics reading you've ever picked up *any* issue of "Preacher," you have *got* to see the most recent issue (the end of the series' final major story arc, "Alamo"). After all's said and done, only one regular comes away alive ... and it ain't who ya think. And after that there's only one more left before Ennis and Dillon finally finish the series that changed comics in the late '90s.
(And the rest of the issue's good too ... basically amounts to Jesse beating the holy hell out of Cassidy prior to sunrise, for everything Cassidy's ever done in his life that proved he was a jerk.)

**END SPOILERS!!**

Raven: **gets a bitter flashback until he realizes it's spelled differently** Welcome.

Tenchi Muyo: I've only managed to catch a few eps of the series because of my working schedule ... but it's enough to get me interested. As far as my favorite girl goes to this point ... hmm, tough one, but I think I'll have to go with Ryoko. :)

Acyn, re: cancerous garggoyles: Actually, one of the things that makes cancer such a devious killer is its ability to fool the rest of the body into allowing a tumor to survive ... after all, one of the most dangerous things about cancer is that you can't develop antibodies against it. So I would imagine unless the cancerous garg underwent some form of chemotherapy, stone sleep would only serve to hasten the spread of cancer, because not only would the body heal ... the cancer would as well.

Room update: One slot has been filled (Blaqthorne will be joining us). One more for a man, two for women. Come on, time's growing short, and I've got the space to spare!

Shinigami-chan: You were looking for this, I think ... **hands over a jar of Nestea from his obscenely deep pockets, gets madly huggled by Mara-ko**

**drops jaw in shock** Folks ... NBC Nightly News just did an end story about *elementary school kids* getting involved in what basically amounts to little-league NASCAR-style racing ... on NASCAR speedways ... at 80mph ...
Part of me is thinking, "Oh, that's just WRONG!"
The other seven-eighths is thinking, "Man, where the hell was that when I was a kid?!?! That looks like fun!!"

Stephen: Bummer about your job, man ... here's hopin' you get a good one, soon. Here's also hoping that your ex-employers feel highly enough of you that you can use them as references in the future.

Robby, re: marketing: Since we've been talking Tenchi, maybe we should mention the item Dark Horse has been offering through its anime comics ... the Ryo-oki stuffed animal. :)

Heather: Glad to see ya 'round. **hugs**
Incidentally ... at this time, the payment for the con is now being taken at the door.

Christine: Depending on how the work schedule demons play havoc with my entrails to determine my schedule, I believe I'll be there again. :)

Ah well, that looks like enough for me to clog the room with for now. **grins, picks up Mara-ko and jumps into the Caddy with her in his lap, driving off ... quite a trick since she's still in his lap in the driver's seat. ;)**
Coyote the Bando - [1134@i-is.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Friday, July 14, 2000 05:39:48 PM
IP: 216.28.101.154

Finally! Haven't been able to get in here for a few days!

Warpmind > that egg thing was going from Greg's oft-stated one-egg-at-a-time law; I personally don't hold with it as shown by my stories. I also don't go by the 20-year breeding cycle; I've made it a voluntary decision by the females of the clan, based on how secure and well-provided-for they felt the clan to be at the time.

Gside > ah, "Junkyard Wars." Tim loves that show!

SJ > Survivor, yeah! I missed the first few, but now I'm hooked ... I bet it threw a lot of people off when ol' Greg won himself the immunity talisman!

New story > "Full Circle," by Karen Mason-Richardson, is now posted in the Adult Archive. Highly recommended! But please direct all comments to the adult site so's we don't have another snit-fit looming! ; )

Update > I got the contract today! For Black Roses from the audio book company! Whee! Feeling good now! And I'm sending in a story to an anthology Stephen steered me to (thanks, Stephen! pain about the job, damn, sorry to hear it!), so fingers are crossed on that one. I hope to post Shameless Plug II tonight; it just kept going and I finally had to say "enough!" and end the darn thing!

Adult Chat > next Friday, the 21st, I'll be in the chat room on the Adult Site starting around 8pm Pacific and ending whenever Tim's folks arrive ... maybe ... I could hide and say I _have_ to be there if lots of people show up ... ; )

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, July 14, 2000 05:04:06 PM
IP: 14-064.009.popsite.net

Hey, long time no see...
Just wanted to check up on everyone, I'm still alive but I think I'm turning into a semi-lurker. Anyway, is it still okay to send money to go to the Gathering?

Techi> Well, since I couldn't see the first week of Tenchi because I was in MISSISSIPPI *glares evily at parents* I only saw one episode. My favorite character so far is Washu! LOve the hair!

Sailor Moon> Okay, what is this about Reeni's transformation not showing on the eps? I know the censors are afraid of showing a seven or eight year old girl spinning around in pink sparkles but they'll show.. *counts* seven teenage girls spinnig arounf and you can see somewhat of their cleaveage lines? GRRRRR...
And another thing, what is up with Neptune's and Uranus' transformation calls? I mean, it sounded so cool with them saying "Planet Power"....

X-Men Spoiler > I just saw the first showing of the movie in my town and I got four words: WOLVERINE IS SO HOT! *adds him to her "hot actor guys list* Hugh is an awesome actor, the perfect Wolverine. Anna did have the southern accent so I was relieved about that, the love triangle between Logan/Scott/Jean was cute. Ray Park as Toad, so cool, if you guys go see this movie, look careful of how Ray poses right after he throws Halle Berry (Storm) into the elevator.
Rate : 10!
Heather - [kheetor84@aol.com]
Friday, July 14, 2000 04:40:48 PM
IP: ac8cb5e4.ipt.aol.com

Reality> Bah!!! You long-winded Roman twit!! You butt pirate for Nero!! You have a lot of nerve coming in here, using my pic and color, and then insulting all of us.

I also don't care for you insulting us. You're nothing but a lousy troll who has nothing better to do than insult us with your stupid post-modern rhetoric. Now, go read some Sartre and Camus, or other burn-out philosopher and never darken our Comment Room again. I have a fondness for fried troll, and it's been a while since I ate some.
Attila The Hun
Etzelnburg, Hungary
Thursday, July 13, 2000 09:24:23 PM
IP: proxy1-external.elmwd1.la.home.com

ATTENTION!!! GATHERING 2000 LIFE DRAWING ANNOUNCEMENT!

Hey gargs and goyles! If you are interested in participating in a life drawing workshop with REAL models (a choice between nude or clothed) and help improve those drawing skills (even if you've been drawing for YEARS, have just started, have taken TONS, or NO lifedrawing class in your life!) then sign up for the session at G2K. This session is PRE-registration..ONLY. (aka, if you're unsure if you'll be attending the con or not, sign up anyways, and worst comes to worst, we give your spot to somoeone else.) (gosh..this sounds SO much like an infomurtal. O.o)

Anyways, the deadline for registration is NEXT friday!! (aka the 21st, midnight at Pacific standard time I guess?)

We are STILL accepting registration, and there are spots open in BOTH sessions, so if you'd love to attend, Sign up! (more rules and information can be found on the page)


See you at the con! ^_^
Siryn
Thursday, July 13, 2000 07:04:30 PM
IP: ac8b4244.ipt.aol.com

I had thought up a really cool entrance effect last night, I didn't right it down, and now I forgot it. *Cyborg beats herself up over that one*

Sevarius Jr. (re: dad)> That's good news, hopefully it'll travel in threes.

Reality>"I followed one of you here. As I follow you almost everywhere you go." I don't know who you are, but you creep me out.
"Everyones truth is different." That is an imposible assumption. Truth is an absolute, it is fact. There is not one truth for one person and another for someone else- that idea is rediculous. If you were to believe hard enough that poison would not affect you, if you thought that was a truth for you, it would not keep you from dying if you were to drink some arsenic.
"What you do here, what you say here, is all insignifacant." What we do here, what we say here, is signigicant and very important to us.

Warpmind>"Well, people *do* look at me strangely when I wear this jacket... no big wonder; it's almost 25 degrees out thre." My sympathies, I know how you feel (hot)- I'm insulated too (the hardware). A persan CAN get used to such things though, in time.
"but it was certain... body parts I was refering to." I know, I was being deliberatly dense.
"how the heck were they subbosed to breed with that wee thingie?" The PC reply is: it's not how big it is, it's how you use it. My reply is: have you heard the one with the Greek father giving his son a tour of the town?

Mary Flanders>"I would be in the corner sobbing uncontrolablly" I turn into a water fountain too. Ever seen Simon Birch?

DPH (re: parent rant)> I can only suggest going to bed earlier untill you can figure out how to explain that to him. I had to deal with that too (still do in fact) but in my case, that was earned (I had alot of trouble getting out of bed in highschool). My Dad still sometimes wakes me up in the morning- usually five minutes before my alarm goes off.

Au revoir
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Thursday, July 13, 2000 06:26:21 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Reality - well congrationalitions on losing your sanity!! I do not take kindly to threats!!

*DPH calls DC and Netlag on a cellphone and asks them to have fun with Reality's internet connection.*

RL kept me from posting yesterday. I only checked 1 email account of my 4.

No BFTS RP until Monday for me.

What happenned to 'responsibilities' that
go along with rights?

**PARENT RANT**
I want to be 100% responsible for getting to work on time, but my dad insists on waking me up earlier because he thinks I might be late (I have not been yet). How slow (or fast) I am in the mornings depends on how much sleep I got the night before. This is the same idiot who does not understand why I would want to move out of the house. Any advice for me would be welcome.
**END PARENT RANT**
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Thursday, July 13, 2000 05:26:32 PM
IP: max1-1.cwy.cei.net

*enters*
Yo people. :)

Tenchi Muyo> Yesterday's episode was so hard for me. I was literally crying my ass off from learning about Washu's past with her baby and husband. Ugh! 20,000 years since she saw her husband and baby??? *sobs loudly* This is why it's so hard for me to watch even The Color Purple in my English class. Good thing we never finished watching it! I can just picture it: The teacher turns off the TV after the movie ends and starts to lecture on major themes in the novel, and I would be in the corner sobbing uncontrolablly. I'm just a sensitive young thing. ;P
Mary Flanders
Thursday, July 13, 2000 05:12:32 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

I have no problem with demona re-entering partial grace with the rest of the clan.

As for things moving too rapidly in the series my personal opinion on fixing that is to move the time in the series more rapidly. Nothing says that a season has to span a year. I would actually be happier if 10 years passed in a season. It would make a lot of things easier.

My favorite series is timedancer. I like the various periods, especially those taking place in the future. This does cause certain complications however because we "know" how certain things will come out in the main band, however and has diminished my enjoyment of the main series a little. This is one reason I never read dark ages -- I have a lot less interest in the history of the gargolyes than I have in where they are going.

I am also hoping that pendragon will separate more -- I prefer mainline to pendragon.

All in all though I am amazed that TGS has survived as long as it has -- it is a real testiment to how good the actual series was(at least the 1st 2 seasons of the tv series).

---

On gargoyle breeding -- even an every 20 year thing means that each female can bear young about 5 to 7 times during their lifespan(depending on how long they remain fertile which for gargolyes I would expect is a lot longer than humanx2). It does however make their "the clan is my father and mother" stance convenient. One doesnt have to be able to perform the full duties of mother 20 years after the egg is laid. I think that it would easily keep up with or exceed the gargoyle mortality rate.


ram
NJ
Thursday, July 13, 2000 02:13:30 PM
IP: cli-04-148.eclipse.net

SJ: I forgot to say it last night (sorry!) but I too am glad your father does not have cancer and hope he continues to be in good health. :)
Kitainia
Thursday, July 13, 2000 02:06:31 PM
IP: pool-209-138-202-213-dlls.grid.net

***Kyryn walks in****

S.J.> Glad to hear the news about your dad. I hope things continue to get better.

Stephen> Ack! Not again. I hope you find something better.

Hmmm. It looks like another troll has found the room. Ah well, the best thing to do with trolls is ignore them.

Well, Okami and I are down to one car again at the moment. His car decided to die on the freeway last night. It looks like a timing belt. (Crosses fingers that it is nothing worse). Ah well, we'll hear back from the mechanic later today.

Later All!

***Kyryn walks out the door***
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Thursday, July 13, 2000 11:34:45 AM
IP: 216.35.46.129

Hey hey!

News about my military service finally! My leaving is for 19th of September, day more day less. Still don't know the Battalion, though. Another new: yesterday they finally decided to increase pays for draft soldiers. New ones are equivalent of 400$ a month for privateers ane 500$ for Corporals. It's still not much, but compared to before...

Green Baron:> <<Actually, I said that in jest. >> Actually, I didn't.
Well, currently the Catholic church doesn't persecute openly homosexuals (but in past centuries, they were burned alive by the Inquisition...and none has still aopolgized with them for this), but for sure there is still intolerance, at various levels. The thing I don't understand is why the Church behaves this way with homosexuals, considering that I don't remember Jesus saying:"You will make love only with people of the opposite sex"...

Curly++:> <grins> No, I usually get not too much irritated when someone asks me why I don't believe in God. If they are really curious, I see no problem in answering. I usually, after answering them, ask: "And why DO you believe in God?". Often, this question gives them difficulties.;)
Seriously, there is one thing that I find irritating: it is when I say to people I don't believe in God, and they immediately decide, basing only on this, that I am some kind of amoral, perversed and swearer sinner, and they don't want to see me anymore. It really makes me upset (I am very slow in taking offence, and there are very few things that make me upset, but intolerance and prejudice are two of them...)

Brooklyn and Winterwolf:> Finally! Read and feedback ASAP

SJ:> Glad to know about your father!

Warpmind:> Funny! I remember some others similar.
1)"I have no problem with God, it's his fan club that makes me upset..."
2)"It's not me believing I am God, it is god believing he's Me..."

Niamhgold:> Got your email! :)

Later everyone.
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Thursday, July 13, 2000 09:40:24 AM
IP: h213-46-66.mi2.albacom.net

*Warpmind enters, flicking off his jacket and placing it on a convenient hanger.*
Well, people *do* look at me strangely when I wear this jacket... no big wonder; it's almost 25 degrees out there. :|

Green Baron: Okay, impalement as a punishment for property violation without any damage *might* be a tad on the excessive side. ;)

Curly++: Actually, Gside said the body doesn't reject the tumor. I would probably have said the same, but he beat me to it...

Curly++/Shadowrider: Here's a nice one for all you agnostics: If asked whether or not you believe in God, answer "Sure, I believe in God, but I don't have a shred of faith in His messengers." ;)

Cyborg: Um, wardrobe, too... but it was certain... body parts I was referring to. (Ever seen one of those Ancient Greek statues? Great body, but how the heck were they supposed to breed with that wee thingie?)

Gside: You really believed me? :) Oh, goodie. Now, I'd better see if there's any updates on that Jemima shrine. ;)

Reality: You claim to have a hold over us? Phah, you don't scare me! Just wait until I get one of Wilek's Vorhees Devices. :)

Well, gotta go.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Thursday, July 13, 2000 07:08:51 AM
IP: mp-217-200-155.daxnet.no

So, as I read these posts, I find yet another circle of dreamers stuck in their imagination. You come here," to get away" from the truth. Everyones truth is different. Yet somehow very common. You are out casts. Your thoughts are scary. You minds are warped. But yet somehow, you have found others, here, that can realate to you. But even that is a fantasy. What you do here, what you say here, is all insignifacant. As much of your lives are. Well why am I here? I followed one of you here. As I follow you almost everywhere you go. It is hard to hide on the web. It is vast, but very open. It took me all of five minutes to track you here. As well as at other sites. You know who you are. I will not let up on you. Where you go, I will be there. If I decide to come back in to this little " wonderland" it will only be to unveil you to your peers. Sleep tight.
Reality - [reality@hotmail.com]
Your_Town, America
Thursday, July 13, 2000 04:12:08 AM
IP: spider-tq012.proxy.aol.com

Warpmind- Ah, the fun of CATS... I've seen that video I dunno how many times... I've even drawn an animation sequence based off of part of it... But great music, great costumes...

And its late, I should be off to bed now. Work in the morning!
Robby
Thursday, July 13, 2000 02:54:07 AM
IP: spider-tr064.proxy.aol.com

**Winterwolf enters the CR**

Hi! I don't know what happened yesterday. I just touched my bed and it grabbed me and knocked me unconscious. Tonight I'm respecting the evil powers it has and finishing my post before going near it. :) Apologies for my absence.

I'm going to keep this post somewhat short. No RP and just a few replies.

Welcome to all the people I haven't seen before! :)

Welcome back to those that have been gone!

**Shameless Plug - Brooklyn's fanfic "No where to hide" Part 2 has been posted.**

SOROW> One thing I didn't mention in that last email was about the bugs. I guess you can say I'm a big wuss too because I hate bugs. Though the bigger reason has been because in the past mosquitoes find me irresistible. Fortunately I haven't been bitten yet this year. Oh no! I shouldn't have posted that! I'm going to get bitten for sure now! Doh! ^_^

Niamhgold> You aren't the only one who had difficulty! I was also having trouble with the CR page a few times earlier this week. :( <suntan> Cheers on the suntan! I can go either way myself. 50/50 tan or burn. Once I use suntan lotion it's all good. :) <you> I'm starting to wonder if we are related or something. There are just too many coincidences! <Monty Python> If you have Comedy Central they seem to show it one a month. You could also rent it or I'd be happy to lend you my copy. That last choice would probably just be the most difficult to work out. Oh well. Have you seen any British comedy? I know some people that don't like it and if you don't then you probably won't like the Monty Python and Holy Grail. I find that type of humor funny myself. ;)

Cyborg> <conformity poll> I'll get back to you on that then. :)

Stephen Sobotka, Jr> <job> Losing a job can be quite a hassle. I hope you get lucky and find something better to move on to.

Janine> I've sent you email since I haven't seen you online lately. Hope to see you soon. ^_^

Shadowrider> Wait no longer the story is up and available now! :)

Sevarius Jr.> <dad> That is good news! I'm happy to hear that! Now I'll pray to his full and speedy recovery.

Good Night!

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Thursday, July 13, 2000 01:54:32 AM
IP: nas-6-67.nyc.navipath.net

I was exposed to a new TV show today. It could probably be best described as a combination of the Iron Chef and the A Team. Two teams are given a project and access to a junkyard, their final products then compete for supremacy (e.g. target practice for cannons, a race for amphibious vehicles). This could be fun.

Warpmind> <<Really, it's for the music>>: Webber has done some great stuff, like the bari sax at the beginning of Superstar, the baseline eigth runs through Phantom, and I've heard a grat alto do an amazing job on Memories from two seats away.

Taleweaver> <<has anyone else noticed the painted on bathing suits?>>: Seeing as I never saw the original version, I was wondering if BS&P had been interfering there.

Curly++> <<I've signed up for an experimental study>>: Hopefully the people behind it are on the right track.
<<I'm now waiting to find out if I'm assigned to the control group>>: Shouldn't they not tell you?
<<Warpmind said the worst thing is that your body doesn't reject the tumor>>: I though that was me. Maybe not.
<<the worst thing is waiting and waiting for test results...>>:That might be considered a side effect, because it might otherwise be easier to figure out what's going on and what to do with it. Then again, I haven't had that much direct exposure to the process, despite the fact that it will most likely kill me.

Sev. Jr.> Glad to hear the good news about your father, and may the tumor be eliminated.

And I owe another mp3. For another bit of utter randomness, I have put up When You Awake by The Band. I really do like The Band.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, July 13, 2000 01:51:03 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

Hello everyone!
<Winterwolf>
How's life? Just thought I'd drop you a line. How's the web-page coming? I hope it's doing well! I'd love to see your opening animation, whatever you have done! So send on by! You still have failed to send me a pic of the Winterwolf:)
It would be nice to see it! Thanks for clearing everything up for me on Dark Ages! Don't worry you didn't ruin anything for me I'll still read it! I liked to see Goliath and Asrial get together. Not only is she a better person but the did happen to share a commom interest in each other.the s@*t had to go and muck it up for Asrial! I mean Demona was much more social she could have had any male she wanted.
Anyway thanks for the help! Talk to you later.
<Janine>
Where have you been? You still haven't sent me a mail on what you think of the story ideas. I'd like to hear from you. How's RHPS coming? I want to hear everything when you have the time to talk! Plus how's your page? I stopped by there today, still not much to see but, I'm sure once you get it to where you want it, it will be great! How are your wings coming? If you plan to have them on your site then you might want to take progress pics every step.
( Just a suggestion ) Any who get back to me soon.
<Rodlox>
By any chance do you know where I can find an online Latin/English translator? If so great! It's for my study.
I need some names.
Well that's it for tonight!
If I missed anyone then I promise I'll answer tomorrow I've just need to get some sleep so please everyone read the fic!

Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Thursday, July 13, 2000 12:58:10 AM
IP: usr88.cqc.com

SJ: Thanks for your response, I understand you a whole lot better now. :) The choices you make remain yours, glad you're content with those you have made and that I can see why that is now. I agree with much of what you said, and even though I don't fully support it I can understand it. Thanks again.

<Titanic is the most over-hyped movie ever made> Untrue. That candle goes to Star Wars Ep 1 IMO. With Titanic we weren't all sure it was going to be great beyond belief before it came out and proved us wrong. There was no huge merchandising campaign or egotistical and fan-apathetic director associated with it either. Still you're entitled to your opinion.

All for now.
Kitainia
Thursday, July 13, 2000 12:32:59 AM
IP: pool-209-138-215-91.dlls.grid.net

Sorry for the 2x post, but double duty tonight. :)

***BEGIN SHAMELESS PLUG***

ZANY STUFF: Moving on Up--MiSTed!
Episode 3 in the Demona's Payback Project. Goliath, Macbeth and Puck are joined by Jack Hammer as Demona makes them read Mandi Ohlin's "Moving on Up," a Gargoyles/Caroline in the City crossover. Posted here because the archive isn't accepting my password for the Payback Consortium account.

In other words, that's Story by Mandi Ohlin.......

And funny lines by Fred "Pistoff" Kerns!!!

***END SHAMELESS PLUG****
Sevarius Jr. - [<----Click here! It's about a third down the page!!]
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 11:15:15 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

***BEGIN RP***
Sammael and SJ wreslted with each other on the ground. The two were so preoccupied in their scuffle that they didn't notice that, around them, the battle was over.
"Guys!" Kari tried to get their attention. "Guys!" Neither male paid her any attention.
She drew in a deep breath. "BOTH OF YOU MORONS BETTER LISTEN UP, RIGHT NOW, OR YOU'RE GONNA GET THE SPEAR OF ATHENA RAMMED RIGHT UP A SENSITIVE PLACE!!!"
The two stopped fighting and looked at Kari meekly. They got to their feet, but still looked at each other ominously.
"Maybe if you two idiots would stop trying to pound each other's faces in, you would have noticed that our friend Gasper just sacrificed himself to stop Four. So SHOW A LITTLE RESPECT!!!"
Both men were silent, and looked at the ground sheepishly.
"Now, maybe you could explain why suddenly, my boyfriend shows up after being stuck in hell!"
"Oh, that's easy," SJ said. He pointed to Kitty. "She brought me here."
"Okay, that's explains virtually nothing," Kari replied. "And why are the two of you fighting each other."
Sammael looked perplexed. "Hey, Kari, he hit me! I was minding my own business--"
"Your own business? You bastard! You possessed my body! I was trapped in hell, while you were enjoying earth with my body, and my girlfriend. You think--"
"And how did you get a new body?" Kari asked.
"Well, I....um.....gee, I'm not really sure..."
Kari put her head in her hands. "We ALL need to sit down and talk."
Belzelk, the large, tusked green demon was observing the incident a short distance away with his fellow demon warrior Gigamantis. He snorted and poked a claw at the group. "I tell you, Gig, I love humans. They're ALWAYS fighting like this. Better than a soap opera, they are!"
****END RP****

Lots of replies and stuff to get into, so let's start.

First off, thank you to anyone who has prayed about my father. We received word today that he, for sure, does NOT have prostate cancer. His levels are a little high (I can't accurately describe this, so bear with me), which was cause for concern, but he does NOT have cancer. That's a blessing.
We're still concerned because he has a tumor around his spine. However, even though we do not know much about that, the doctors seem to feel that it is benign. So, not out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination, but this is good news.

Survivor update: Anyone still watching this show? God, it's getting good. I'm happy that my two personal favorites, Big Gay Richard and Rudy the Crusty Old Navy Seal are still alive and kicking. Unfortunately, poor Gretchen the School Marm was voted off tonight.
Why can't they all see that Gervase deserves to be booted! That lazy SOB doesn't do a damn thing, EVER, except sit on his butt all day, and he STILL hasn't been voted off!!!

Coyote: I'm sorry if I was harsh in my earlier comments, but I still stand by the general message of what I said. I understand that you presented a "theory", one that I'm sure quite a few people would find acceptable. But it horrified me. Again, I hate to take the stance, but the horses--regardless of how loved they are--are just animals. They are not humans. To kill ANYONE in retaliation for the life of an animal is, IMO, a huge injustice. Regardless of all of the beliefs that humans are animals, I don't equate human life as equal to animal life. I love animals, but I would never kill another human being as punishment for killing an animal. That's just too extreme for me.
Somebody mentioned that they used to hang horse thieves. That practice was instituted because, at that point in time in history, your horse was your life. You could often quite literally NOT survive without your horse. You could not easily replace it. However, I do not approve of that practice (hanging horse thieves) even taken in its proper historical context. Even taking Green Baron's p.o.v., that horses are property, is no excuse to kill someone, because it's illegal in the USA to kill anyone over property. It's not justifiable homicide.

Curly++: I knew somehow I'd get into some sort of capital punishment debate. I'll say now what I said a week or so ago in the other CR, when they were debating that issue--I still support capital punishment, even though the system is flawed and doesn't always work. Yes, innocent people do get put on death row, but I see that more as the fault of the system and not a reason to banish capital punishment. It's a good reason to massively reform the justice system, but not a good reason to elmininate executions. I'm sorry, but I still take the viewpoint that, while the system isn't perfect, it still ultimately does good. Not always, but still.
I did read something beautiful today, though. Many are now advocating the use of DNA tests to exonerate "innocent" death row inmates. Well, in Texas, the state where people feel the most abundant improper executions occur, DNA tests have shown that convicted rapist/murderer Ricky McGinn (who of course, said he was innocent) DID INDEED kill his stepdaughter. So now, hopefully, we can send this piece of excrement into the ground, and all breath a sigh of relief, realizing that we are indeed punishing the truly guilty.
And for the record, my neighbors love me. ;-p

I wonder, though--how many of you out there who oppose capital punishment were secretly agreeing with Coyote when he suggested torching the arsonist for his crime?

Stephen: For what it's worth, I'm sorry that you lost your job, and I'm hoping that you fine a new--and better one (with more money! :)-- very soon.

Green Baron: I've heard a lot of negative criticism about the Patriot, and I feel that some of it is just plain bitterness. I can understand the British being upset, but they should realize that this is an American movie about the Revolutionary War, so of course they are going to be portrayed as the bad guys. What really upsets me is the folks in this country who criticize the movie not for its plot or the technical aspects of the film like the directing or the acting, but because of idealogy. Case in point--Spike Lee is screaming about the movie, furious that people are going to see it because--get this--it doesn't accurately portray the culture of the times. In other words, he's mad because the studio decided NOT to include scenes of white slave owners beating the bejeezus out of their slaves. Personally, I think that the American public is mature enough to know that slaves were mistreated by their owners without having it be shown to them each and every time someone does a period piece on the war for independence, but hey, that's just me.
BTW, since I know you have some conservative leanings ;), I was wondering if you've ever watched the Fox News Channel. Most specifically, "The Factor" with Bill O'Reilly. Personally, I'm becoming a huge fan of the man. ;)

Niamhgold: I'm no biologist (although I play one in the CR), but I would think that Gargoyles, as a species, would have some diseases that are unique to their race. Perhaps they have their own version of a cold or flu. However, I wouldn't want to see a Gargoyle illness. Their stone sleep serves to cure them of their ailments, so if they ever have some sort of virus or disease that is able to affect them for more than a 24 hour period, I would think it would be pretty severe. I can see them getting cancer though, although I would think they would be better suited to fight such a malady with their hyperactive immune system.

Jason: I personally think that Sevarius was smart enough to create a counteragent for the mutate process. He seems like the kind of man who's smart enough to create a back door for whatever project he's working on. If for no other reason than self-preservation. What if he had accidentally injected himself with the mutagen? For all his devious experiments, he's never seem the type who would like to sacrifice himself for the sake of science.
The really nasty thought I have, though, is that the process is irreversible after the complete metamorphosis. It would make sense, right? Derek took time to mutate. Perhaps the counteragent has to be applied before the mutation is complete in order to be effective. It would make sense, I think. I would imagine that once the mutation has taken place, than it would just be far too difficult to de-mutate the subject. The change would, at that point, just be too great to be reversed.

Ironwolf: I'm one of the proud 2% who loves Laurell Hamilton's books. :) I'm a big fan of her Anita Blake series. I own all of them except for her latest, Obsidian Butterfly (I'm waiting for the paperback version). Personally, I think they're all great, and highly entertaining. Although I don't like Jean-Claude.....perhaps it's the pretentious French thing....

Spacebabie: There's a book that I wanted to recommend to you, but I can't remember the title or the author....I think it was called "Manga Dreams" or some thing.....anyway, the author had a lot to say about manga, which most anime come from. I'm no expert, but I think that the "cute sidekick characters" found in anime *could* come from us. It's no secret that the reason some anime characters have eyes the size of Buicks is because of American influence. Perhaps the sidekick characters are a byproduct as well. Certain Japanese artists, while having their own unique style, were influenced by the work of Walt Disney and Fleischman and Will Eisner, and others. Perhaps they took some of those animal concepts from such folks as Walt, and decided to incorporate them in anime. Hence, "cute" anime characters like Ryo-Ohki in Tenchi Muyo.
Speaking of Tenchi Muyo, I think the whole Yosho / Ayeka incest angle in the show is not that "incest is more acceptable than homosexuality". I think it has more of a historical context. If you look at many of the monarchies of Earth, incest is relatively common. In Europe and in Egypt, the monarchs and pharoahs were forced to marry in their own family, to sisters or cousins, in order to keep the bloodline "pure". I think this is the reason for the incest in Tenchi. Yosho pretty much admitted this. He told Ayeka that the people of Jurai did not really approve of the custom (as the people of Earth did not really approve of incest among their monarchs) but it was the way the Jurai monarchs did things. So that's the best explanation I can give.

Kit: I'm afraid that I've convinced you that I'm some sort of antisocial misanthrope. This is not really the case. I should probably clarify my remarks....I get completely mental at overhype. It's not as if I like a TV show, or a movie, or a song, and as soon as one other person says they like it, I suddenly hate it. That's not true (I'm not *quite* that shallow). I like shows like Buffy, groups like Metallica, movies like the Perfect Storm, and all of these are popular. The difference between these things and, say, Titanic, or Harry Potter, is that there's not all this unbelievable hype surrounding them. I suppose I get supremely hostile towards something if, all of a sudden, everyone TELLS me it's the best thing on the earth. If there's supreme hype. Such as, "Titanic is the best movie EVER!" I can take this. But by the 77, 245th time I've heard this, and after the umpteenth newspaper article I read saying the same thing, etc, I just get sick of the hype, and it's like overkill with me. I start to hate it. I refuse to see Titanic because, I feel, it's the most overhyped movie ever made. I'm not real psyched to read the Harry Potter books because they've been described as something akin to the second coming in book form. I do not take aversion to something just because it's well-liked, but rather if it's over-hyped. Maybe I feel that there's no way in which the object of the hype can live up to it. Sort of like your reaction to the Blair Witch Project. You didn't like the movie, and didn't understand the hype. At some point, didn't you feel like saying "Yeah, I know it's popular, but it was a piece of crap!" In a sense, that's sort of how I feel about something (although I usually just refrain from seeing the movie, reading the book, etc.). If something is just overhyped, I get this feeling that, "Gee, I could be like every other lemming and go see the movie/read the book/watch the tv show/listen to the music , knowing that it can't live up the hype, or I can choose to just stay away from that altogether." If something is just so ridiculously overhyped, I'd rather say "F*** it" and just walk away. Yes, that's judging them unfairly, but that's the way I feel. I'd rather not bother with it all. (Although, to be honest, I usually only apply this to things that I in general only have a marginal interest at best. Take Titanic. Even without the hype, I would not have been that interested in seeing it.) Although I don't think it necessary for me to see or read or listen to something I *think* I'll hate for me to then say "I hate that" and mean it. I feel that I can make a value judgement and just choose not to see it. I don't necessarily think that that attitude will draw me pity.....way I figure it, if *that's* what they pity me for, they don't know me that well. ;) That's how I feel. Hope this is a decent explanation. *Shrugs* Maybe this helps, maybe it doesn't change your opinion of me.


Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 10:53:47 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Non- Conformity Poll Update> two goths, three oddballs, one gifted, two who prefer not popularized pastimes, four individualists, one hellraiser, one with his own style, one Daria- esque, one FTW type, one F-W-C-G-F-B

Brooklyn> Did you get my e- mail and it's attachment?

Green Baron> We have been together for two years now. Yes, we have been talking about marriage, but I want to wait until I'm finished school first, and he wants us to have been together for five years first (he thinks that if I can put up with him for that long, I can put up with him for life). Put that together, and if one doesn't get us past age 25, then the other will.
"I want a wife with a career and a very professional one at that." That can be construed as very naughty (then again, I have a dirty mind sometimes). When I was a young child, my mother was a housewife. I saw how happy she was, and I want that for myself. I like volunteering and working in the community and I want the time to do that. I want to have children and actually raise them, not just stick them in front of thr television and hope they turn out all right. My mother must have taken me to every museum on the island- and made it fun. I never had a chocolate bar until I was in elementary school, mom's baked goods were tastier, helthier, and lots of fun to help make. I could go on and on on this subject, but I won't bore you with it. This is the lifestyle that I want, and not only that, I firmly believe that if one of the parental units in the family does take time to raise their family, there would not be as many problems as there are today.

Warpmind>"what they have I lack, and what they... lack, I have, if you get my drift." What they lack... clothes? You have a large wardrobe?

Au revoir
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 10:20:19 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Hi guys I'll post a larger post later but here is small update: My Irish clan part 2 is up for those who want to read it.So go read it and tell me what you think!

Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 09:27:12 PM
IP: usr61.cqc.com

****Brief RP******

Gasper smiled as he took out his spear, and went into an enguarde position. "Nice to see you again."
"I KILLED YOU!"
"Yeah, seems I came down here too, though King Youma or God, or whoever that bright light was, told me I really don't have to worry about you hurting me or those other two you sent. In fact, I think they wanted to join us in some battles as well. We're gonna be here for a while, so I think we might as well have some fun down here." he lunged at Four, and the battle was again in full swing. But one last thought remained on his mind, praying that the Mage, Kitty or something, would keep good on her word. He hit Four a couple times, poking holes in her when her weapons were down. No blood was evident, though after a while, he felt his power level fall. Putting up a hand, he stopped Four. She tried lopping off his hand, but he blocked and punched her in the shoulder, sending her off balance. Putting his spear away, he laughed.
"Oh we're really gonna have fun down here."
"Shut up infidel. Meet back here when you're ready. I'll destroy you."

****END RP******

Robby, I like it...hope you didn't mind me adding a little something. Call up Gasper when you need him, hell, I might use him as well, when the situation calls for.

NOt much on my end right now....probably later.
Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 08:38:40 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Quick question there is a really post later!
Does any one read Dark Ages? If so does anyone know who is Ajax's mate? Or Asial's, or Therisites'? Thanks
Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 07:53:14 PM
IP: usr61.cqc.com

Kitainia :Laurell Hamilton is pretty cool and she has a unique way of writing. She knows whom the killer or villain is in the book but that is all; the characters make the stories up as she writes the book. So she is as surprised as they are, and we the readers. Also she says the characters do not always do what she wants. Anita was never supposed to sleep with Jean Claude but He spoke up in her head and would stand for it her interview was great and well the BIG surprise in Obsidian Butterfly was a surprise to Ms Hamilton as she wrote it!
Ironwolf - [cag16@bellsouth.net]
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 07:35:53 PM
IP: host-216-78-82-205.cha.bellsouth.net

Curly++ takes a break... have a visitor in RL from the other side of the continent, so I guess I'll be just skimming the rest of the week. She's my favorite sister.


Shadowrider>>
<I'm an agnostic who sings in a chorus specialized in holy music.>
Don't you hate it when you tell someone you're agnostic and they ask you why you don't believe in God? That drives me bannanas!


Kitainia>>
<Now I know I shouldn't be so sure I'm always right.>
Don't worry, you'll *never* completely solve that one. Or at least, I still haven't. <sigh> Maybe next year I'll have it beaten.

<Congrats on triumphing over that tumor as much as you have, hope that soon it's completely gone if it's not already.>
Thanks, but treatment only starts in a week or two. I've signed up for an experimental study so I'm now waiting to find out if I'm assigned to the control group (normal 6 week treatment) or the study group (7 1/2 month course). Warpmind said the worst thing is that your body doesn't reject the tumor, no, the worst thing is waiting and waiting for test results, for OR scheduling, for this and that and the other.

<Freud [snip] was a lot more nuts than many of the people he evaluated>
Isn't it a well known saw that people go into psychology because they need to be diagnosed and don't trust anyone else to do it?

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 05:50:09 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

RP WARNING!!!
**Portadown

Paisley and Brigitte stand off against each other as the sun slowly sets on the Isle. She raises her rosary and begins to pray

"Ave Maria, gratia..."
Paisley grabs the rosary and sneers, "So this idolatry is your power. What blasphemy, you Mary worshipper. Don't you know she was no one special and does not deserve such praise. Besides, that's an engraven image you have there. Now, I'll be a good Christian and break it off..."

"I wouldn't do that if I were you."
"Well, you're not papist, so shut up. My men will have their way with you and your firends, after we win, then we'll murder you."

Paisley breaks off the image of Mary only to have blus light come out and swim around Paisley and two Orange Men who come up next to him. One is aged by about 200 years and crumbles to dust. Another slowly melts away. Paisley also slowly melts, but his face explodes while his body and uniform melt away. Then, all the remaining Orange soldiers (all entranced by the light show) are killed by the blue light that shoots through all of them. When they are finished, the blue light returns to the rosary and teh image of Mary is returned and the rosary once again made intact.

The five girls stand there in triumph as the Orange Order has been vanquished and the Peace Process can go much more smoothly in Northern Ireland.**
END RP!!!

Well, I doubt that will be exactly how it happens, but hopefully something like this will happen for Northern Ireland.

Niamhgold> I hop eyou got my e-mail. It has a few pictures of me, so you can judge how I look :)

Welcome Icarus

Gargoyle extinction> I imagine with changes in humanity, the Gargoyles will no longer have their traditional human predator. I bet it should not be diificult for a couple to have at least three eggs in their lifetime. The population is not doomed, but will be endangerd for at least the next millennium.

Cyborg> How long have you known him? It sound slike a long realtionship. Maybe you two should think about marriage, well at leats once you're older than 25.

As for barefoot and pregnant, I want a wife with a career and a very professional one at that.

Steven> That's awful. I hope you can find a new job soon.

Kitainia> Well, Ralph Nader may cost Gore the election. I think Nader's a fool who's past his prime, but he seems good for a laugh.

The British who dislike it are usually also more liberal and don't like the themes, plus the English have a nasty history of attrocities to their clonies. The best example is Ireland and what has been doen to the Irish since teh 12th century. Tavington is nothing compared to some of the earlier soldiers of English history.

Gside> I doubt Tavington knew his civillian occupation, but it seems fitting that he would be the one who kills a minister. There was a guy Tavington was absed on. I doubt South Carolina would see such a bloodthristy savage until William Sherman burns, rapes, and pillages his way down to Atlanta 90 years later.

Warpmind> Well, in most cases I would agree, but if they violate my property rights and don't cause any substantial damage, I'd still like to impale them with fence posts :)

Shadowrider> <<Why not? I don't like the Vatican, but it doesn't mean I can't recognize when they're right >> Actually, I said that in jest.

I didn't hear about the Neo-Nazis coming in. I don't quite understand why Nazis would have such problems with homosexuality since almost the entire SA was gay and I recall so were some of Hitler's main advisors.

Well, I imagine the Catholci Church will keep its position for a while. Things may change, but it will take time. Actually, I almost never hear the Catholic Church say anything about homosexuality. The Pope has his views, which may also be due to him being 80 and how he grew up. I think the Catholci Church is a bit harsh (I myself find nothing wrong with a monogamous homosexual couple), though it is consistent with the Catholic Churches very strict laws on sex in general, including contraception, masturbation, and any sex outside of marriage. I imagine the next Vatican Council will discuss the issue of homosxuality, though I imagine that will be sometime next century.

Mandolin> I wish I could help, but I'm not too knowledgable about tax laws.
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 04:32:54 PM
IP: 141.164.133.103

Rodlox here, with a Movie Warning!:

**Spoilers**
_Me, Myself, And Irene_ did have it's humorous scenes - mostly buried {the line about a mathematician rolling in his grave was one of the better ones}.

It is a rare movie that can get me to throw up, but this one pulled it off {and out}! i'm the guy who can watch _Screamers_, _Man's Best Friend_, and those nature documentaries with catepillars being stung by wasps....and this movie did what those couldn't - got me to barf.

{i don't think greased lightning moves as fast as i can at times like that}.

all in all, the best part of the movie was the previews - including the ones for the X-Men movie {which i read the prequel comic just released}...and on the The Making Of last night {about the X-Men film, the guy who plays Cyclops made a challenge: see how many X you can see during the movie.

I'm sorry, but if i want to watch an overactive Id, i'll just turn on sci-fi channel for 'The Invisible Man'.
**END**

this is rodlox, signing off.

Rodlox
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 03:55:34 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

Bronx> I am so sorry.

Stephen> Ouch. Sorry man. Good luck finding another job.

Robby> Now there's an assignment I like. I'll get started right away.

Mandi> I'm in a bit of a similar position myself with the IRS. I filed as single for the first time this year, expecting to take the earned income credit and clean up. Instead I was told that I wasn't allowed to do that until I turned 22, so my visions of a big refund went up in smoke.

Later.


Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 03:34:14 PM
IP: ppp-280.tnt-2.sat.smartworld.net

Hi all,

I've spent the past week or so arguing with the IRS, and I'd like to pose a question to you all: If I can be claimed as a dependent by someone else, but still file as single, isn't it still a bit steep for the IRS to be charging me 14% of my income in taxes? Especially when they didn't charge so much last year?

Is there anyone else here with a similar filing status who's had to pay that much? I'm asking because every single time I've called the IRS, I've been given a different reason for the fact that the amount I owe them doubled.

*sigh* I hate taxes, and Todd, THIS is one of the lovely RL things that's been keeping me busy. I've talked to six different IRS agents, four of whom all gave me different reasons, one who was nice but unable to get into the 1999 tax forms, and one guy who didn't speak clear English and wanted me to mail him a copy of my 1040. (The extra $$ they're claiming I owe them is due in two weeks, so I don't have time to do that.)

Anyway...

**MOVIE SPOILERS!**

Scary Movie> I think it pushed the envelope at times into stupidity. Some scenes and lines were pretty good, but many of the gags were just dumb (the snot parody of "Blair Witch" was pushing it, and the mid-air Irish jig had me going, "Huh?"). SJ, don't waste your money. It wasn't COMPLETELY awful - it had some inspired moments - but I spent most of the time wondering how they managed an R rating - and what on earth they cut out to get one.

(There was one line that had me cheering, though: "TV shows don't make people violent! CANCELLING them does!" Sorry, but this season has been a record for the number of shows I've liked that have been axed. )

Rocky and Bullwinkle> Cute, although sometimes the jokes were a bit thin; Karen Sympathy got on my nerves a bit, and there was too much of her and not enough Moose & Squirrel. As for the villains, Jason Alexander made an okay Boris, and DeNiro was fine as Fearless Leader... but Rene Russo was a surprisingly good Natasha. They came close to capturing the spirit of the old cartoon, but got too sentimental in parts, and most of the cameos were unnecessary and distracting (except for John Goodman's cameo, which you'll understand if you see it).

The Patriot> Most people have echoed my sentiments about this one. Great film - the only drawback was that Tavington seemed to reach a point where he just HAD to die... and then he went even further. Aside from that, I loved the movie.

**END SPOILERS!**

Bronx> Someone did WHAT??? Oh my God... that's an awful, senseless thing to do. I'm so sorry. *hugs*

All right, I have data entry to do. Til later, all...

23 days til the Gathering. 10 days til I turn 21. :)
Mandolin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 03:14:10 PM
IP: g6192.apgea.army.mil

A couple of days of absence...RL keeps me busy. Oh, well...
Still no news about my service.

Bronx:> I'm a bit late, but I wanted you to know that I understand you suffering. What I don't understand is why someone would do something like that. Well...words escape me, I don't know what to say. My toughts are with you, for what it is worth... *hugs*

Winterwolf:> Got your email. Glad you liked the poem, and good comments about it. I know you and others were to have no problem with its content, but I'm not sure of others, and the last thing I want to is to offend anyone.
I noticed afte posting my last one that Brooklyn's story was not on the Archive...so I wait.

Blade Runner:> I'm a bit late, but I am too a fan of this movie, I consider it a masterwork, particularily in the Director's Cut (the one with Deckard's oniric scene). Well, others have alredy told about the movie and its merits, so I add nothing.

Green Baron:> WGP Week: well, our discussion has become purely academic, 'cause the Parade has happened. There have been no offences to the Vatican or to the Pope, and the Neo-Nazi groups that had menaced to attack the parade didn't show themselves, probably also because of the massive deployment of Police and Carabinieri.
<<I'm also surprised that we agree that mush on any topic involving the Vatican :) >> Why not? I don't like the Vatican, but it doesn't mean I can't recognize when they're right (don't forget that I'm an agnostic who sings in a chorus specialized in holy music...;)...and I don't like Imma Battaglia. I don't like people who seek intentionally and countinuously to start flame wars...
<<London and Paris are more modern and cosmopolitan cities than Rome>> Who said it? Anyway, if it is true, it is a very good reason to *make* the World Gay Pride IN Rome and in no other place...for a city that is not cosmopolitan has something wrong to me. About the coincidence with the Jubilee...well, there are a lot of other things that are supposed to be stopped in coincidence with the Jubilee, but it didn't happen...
I also think that there is a reason for which they decided to set the World Gay Pride in Rome in the year of the Jubilee: the homosexuals wanted to ask to the Catholic Church to stop considering them "sinners" and "doomed to damnation" only because they follow their nature (just yesterday I read an interview with a Cardinal saying "...they should research more intensively a cure for these sexual disorders. Homosexual people should be cured by force, so to take them back to normality..." (the translation is mine, of course) ) and they also wanted the Pope to apologize for the persecutions homosexual people had undergone in centuries by the Church itself.

Icarus:> Welcome in this merry asylum! I assure you you'll never find a better place for a conversation...

Sidricht:> Welcome here!

Kitainia:> Hm, I am sorry to say it to you (Niamhglod already knows) but Nico in the last three years has practically stopped writing...it is one of the reasons for which I started posting his works here: to show him that people *like* his work...so your comments are more than welcome.
About Troisi...<sighs>...yes, he's gone...it's four years now. He had a heart disease since some years, and it had gone slightly deteriorating. He has gone away in a day of spring, while sleeping...and so "Il Postino" will be his last movie forever. *moment of silence*

Nothing more today!

Ciao Ciao!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 01:35:03 PM
IP: h213-18-20.mi2.albacom.net

*Warpmind enters, a glassy, dreamy look in his eyes.*
Hmmm... no, I haven't touched the dreamweed. I just saw Cats, remember? Ah, but Jem... uh... Veerle Casteleyn is a cute one... :)

Cyborg: Yeah, I guess I'll fall under "own style". But jeans and t-shirts are incidental to me... as long as I have some piece of cloth to cover my legs, and something to cover my not-precisely-Greek-god-like chest, I'm happy. T-shirt, shirt, sweater, it's all the same to me, mostly. Physically, I'm pretty much the opposite of one of those Ancient Greek statues - what they have, I lack, and what they... lack, I have, if you get my drift. ;)

Oh, well, I gotta try to scoop up some screenshots from Cats, I guess... particularly of Jemima. :)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 12:51:33 PM
IP: mp-217-198-194.daxnet

Warpmind> You're right, not quite goth. Sometimes I forget that there are these things called 'gee-knees' and 'tea-sherts' in the world (though after seeing a picture, I love that jacket even more). How about own style instead?
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 10:59:34 AM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Tenchi> Oh, so that's why I have a Powerpuff Girl episode. When I set my VCR I have it tape both Tenchi and Batman afterwards (These were the good ones from the first seasons) I can give a brief lowdown.

***Spoiler***Spoiler***Spoiler***
Much of the episode was Ryoko and Aekea trying to get Tenchi. They figured the best way to do that was eliminate some of the competition. So they convinced the Mhioshi to return to the Galaxy Police. She does, but after making her report turns around and returns to Earth. The house gets blown up again. Sasami has a dream of their next villain. And one of those Jrai tree spaceships is growing as a seedling.

How's that for under hundred words or less. I've been working on brevity in my writings. By the way has anyone else noticed the painted on bathing suits?

***End of Spoilers***End of Spoilers***End of Spoilers

Eggs and Lifespan> I try not to run the numbers game on species. For one things lifeforms are generally very resiliant. For another, species viability as a science is imprecise. Not to say it's wrong, but there are truckloads of cases where species thought on the brink of extinction or by all rights should be extinct survive.
Taleweaver - [Taleweaver@usa.net]
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 10:31:07 AM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

Actually, there's an even larger reason for the Breakdowns problems which Robby mentions (although the one that he cites is accurate). It's that most of the list has become so burdened with RL issues and malfunctioning computers (one of our best Breakdowns people lost his computer in late May and hasn't been able to get it replaced since - or rather, his replacements have all been in poor condition and broke down quickly as well) that we seldom have time to get to the mailing list any more. We hope that this will soon pass.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 07:33:18 AM
IP: 216.87.46.232.dialup-stl.primary.net

*Warpmind enters, back creaking.*
Agh, I'm weary... I went with my mother to her job today - she's a linoleum therapist. :|

Green Baron: Present case in mind, I do most certainly NOT consider your sense of justice neither harsh nor excessive. However, I kind of lean toward making the penalty a learning experience... and by that I mean making the offender REALLY learn how foolish it was. Such as by utilizing The Box, as I mentioned in my previous post...

Christine: Hey, hey, the gargs ain't necessarily doomed - as you yourself have pointed out (and others as well, I seem to vaguely recall), multi-egg layings aren't all that uncommon; whether or not that is canon is an entirely different matter, but I can't at present think of any egg-laying species that only lays one egg at a time... Doomed, you say? Not necessarily, I say...

Sidritch: Pistoff has permanently left the CR. However, he still writes, and will most likely respond to any and all e-mail. He had his reasons to leave, and the fools we were, did not raise our voices to urge him to stay...

Cyborg: Um, change me to Goth? Sure, I guess... And feel free to worship my jacket any time you like. ;) Actually, I use the jacket because it's comfy, it has all the pockets I need, and a couple to spare, and I like the cut. The velvet is incidental. (But at least it feels smooth when I draw my hands over it.) If you wish, there's a photo of me in my Gallery; it's at my website, and you can find it simply by clicking on my name. :)

Kitania: I agree unconditionally. Bigots are a present part of our society, we'd be happier without them, but legally, there's not a damn thing we can do about them without becoming just as bad, or worse...

Oh, well, coffee time. And, time to watch Cats. Really, it's for the music. Honest! No, it IS for the music, not for those skintight cat costumes on those cute women. Really! ;)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 07:17:09 AM
IP: mp-217-198-184.daxnet

Wilek> <<About the only Monty Python I've been exposed to is a calendar that kind of frightened me...>>: Terry Gilliam artwork may have that kind of effect if you are unprepared. Or was it Grahm Chapman in drag?

Green Baron> **SPOILERS**<<killing a minister on the field>>: I don't recall anything signifying Auberjonois as a minister when he was killed. **/SPOILERS**

Spacebabie> <<the computer only has on head phones jack>>: Odd. Usually, most sound cards have at least three speaker-type jacks (I really should know the name, but I'm still in training).
Cute characters in anime: Don't forget Pen^2 of Eva.

Niamhgold> <<I also tried the s8 page, too, but it wouldn't come up>>: Odd. Worked fine for me when gargfans was last down.
<<Where can I catch [Holy Grail]>>: Video rental. I've occaisonally seen it on Comedy Central. Or, you could stop by your local nerds and get a live performance (you probably wouldn't have to even cue them). Just be careful if you weigh about the same as a duck.

Acyn> <<stone sleep would "fix" the cell or eliminate the tumor>>: but the really ugly part of cancer is that your body still thinks of the whacked out cells as you.

SRS Jr.> May you find a new and better job soon.

Kitainia> <<not getting too mad about my lack of technical skills>>: Mad? Why? If anything it would fuel what microscopic ego I have buzzing around in my consiousness.
<<380 Megabytes of data, not 400>>: I have a habit of rounding, especially with space requirements. It can help keep you out of trouble.
<<One with a long half-life or a really short one that could release the gas in five minutes?>>: Half life is just a measure of probability. Even stuff like U238 could decay while you glance at it (especially if you have a huge chunk).
<<bad acting from Leo-nerdo Di-Crapio>>: Hey. He is not a nerd. Everything else, fine, but not a nerd.

Robby> <<My VCR timer didn't get all of [Tenchi]...>>: You too?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 04:03:07 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

Dang, life is keeping me busy. I'm only today watching episodes of Tenchi I taped last week. Oii... And today's ep seemed to go on quite long... My VCR timer didn't get all of it...

Garg breeding- This topic has been gone over before... What it boils down to is... Gargs can reproduce four times at least in their lifetimes, double the ammoutn of parents needed, so obviously they can breed enough to survive. But, natural problems like humans cause trouble. That's allt here is to it. On their own, the breeding cycle they have is just fine. In a world of humans, well...

TGS developments- Can't really comment on any of this, but season three of the main series is still in development. We're hitting some... snags... that are slowing us down. Oh well...

Goliath and Elisa moving too fast- Since I wasn'; really involved in season two planniong, honestly, personally, I felt the end of the second Unseelie War and the events that followed it upwere a little too rushed in an attempt to provide a "Happily ever after" feel before some of the staff left. Of course, this is part of what's causing the slowdown in creating season three...

Aaron- You seen Gold Digger number 12 yet? great coloring in that one. Shiela looks fantastic in color. And also... I have a small task for you before the next SAAS meeting.

I want you to compile a list of every cat girl you can think of that you like, and if possible, get a picture of obscure ones I might not be able to find a picture of or have ever heard of. I'm going to do the grand mother of all cat-girl group pictures soon as my submission to the Ninja High School annual is done...

Horses killed in fire arson- Bad, but how is it really THAT different from raising cows from birth for the sole purpose to be sent to the slaughter and eaten? Or a wolf attacking somethign in the wild to eat it? They are only animals, and while someone torching them out of sheer malice is a bad thing, well... They're just animals. Those of you calling for human blood on the matter, um... Doesn't seem quite right to me. Send the man to prison for it and make him pay for the loss, yes, but kill him for it? I don't think so.

This weekends X-men premiere- I've skimmed through the comic book adaptation. The overall plotline scares me and looks to be fairly bad. That's all I'll say for now...

"Popular movies"- WHen Titanic had stayed number one in the box office for 4 months and pulled in 300 million bucks, and one of my friends saw it every weekend and talked almsot endlessly about how good it was, I finally broke down and went to see it, despite the commercials not interesting me all that much. And I will admit, in a couple of scenes, I ewnjoyed the movie. But all in all, it was a three hour waste of my time. The general public isn't always right. ANd generally,when something gets TOO much hype, it worries me...

Gathering 2000- I can now say, with almost absolute certainty, that I will *NOT* being going. A con in Dallas I can get to. A con out of state, is something more of a stretch on the budget, particularly when I'm working at a job that basically just pays in food every couple of days... Ah well, maybe next year...

Ten Saga RP- Considering the fact that Gasper has dropped out of the RP for time constraints, I'm going to be ROYALLY busy until the end of the month (And living on two hours of sleep a night), and the other participants of the ten saga all also seem busy as well, I'm going to bring this particular part of the saga to a close for now, to be picked up again later when its more readily workable, probably in August or later, depending on how long other plot threads go... (I have some fun plans for 3, 2, and 1...) SOund agreeable to everyone involved?

Spacebabie- The cute anime characters are a little thing called "Marketing". Its not a carry over from Disney, its just a side effect of similar logic. If you have cute characters, you can make toys and plush dolls out of them. Kinda like in Pocahontas... The human characters weren't very marketable, so cute cuddly animals were brought in. (Tho in Pokahontas's case, the animals were the only good part of the movie...)

Gasper- Oolong stealing panties... In the American version he doesn't tho. And also, without theoriginal Dragonball, most american viewers miss out on his... More notorious days. Bear that in mind. Spacebabie probably doesn't know about howOolong really is. I think considering how he reached these shores, he can definatley be considered a "cute marketing tool."

In any event, I have an interesting idea for your RP character that might lead to some interesting stories down the road... They WERE my plans for Jim but they might suit your charcter better. Tell me what you think after this RP...

Sidritch- Pistoff left when he felt the entire CR was against him. Accounts on what happened vary, but from where I'm sitting, he took things a bit too personally, got angry without looking over the actual situation closer, and in a flaming fit yelled at us all before leaving forever, and has sicne said nasty things behind our backs. *Shrugs* That's more or less what the deal with Pistoff is...

Kitainia- Filling up the boundaries Traveler forced us to put in place eh? Wish I had that kind of free time anymore... Oh well, I'll be more freed up in August...


***LONG RP TIME! THE TEN SAGA- BATTLE WITH FOUR CONCLUSION!***

Various demons fought against Four, putting up a valiant fight but the tide was slowly turning against them. Things could not keep up, the heroes were just too outclassed in this instance.
Kitty Noying, (Jim's other sister) smiled. "FOur has a weakness. I spotted it before bringing Jim and Sevarius back to here..."
Those nearbye looked at her. "When Four uses her HFIL dragger, the moment it connects, all of her energy goes into the attack. For a moment, her power is almost nothing. Problem being, no one here is strong enough to get her to use that attack. WIth her dramatic power increase, Jim can't match her speed with his wierd abilities, and even the stronger demons on our side fall far too short. Dragon Warrior's armor is exhausted..."
The recently senzu recovered Gasper grinned. "My power is up to the task. Just have some one ready when she uses the attack."
Kitty looked at the warrior for a moment. "All right. Allow me to put a magical tag on you so I can bring you back from Hell as soon as this is over..."
Gasper shook his head. "No. I have... A lost friend who died I'd like to see again. And if you guys take out four, I'll be able to face her and train, not to mention all the other evil critters inhabiting the place. Let me train there and help police Hell until the next member of the ten shows up, then summon me."
"Very well." Kitty closed her eyes and with a brief chant, enhanced Gasper with a magical glow. "I can now retrieve you in a matter of minutes if you think it is needed, or if a new threat arrives. Get her to use the attack, and we'll take care of the rest." A silent nod and the plan commenced.
Gasper jumped in at full power, Kaio-ken three, and drew away 4's attention from the other demons. In a flurry of blows to fast for anyone else to see, combined with a number of ki-blasts, the end result was clear. Gasper and Four stood, both breathing heavily.
"Nod bad boy! Your power is increasing greatley with each battle. I would hate to have to face you again if you kept this up. Luckily, I won't."
Gasper grinned. "DOn't be so sure..." Four powerd up with the HFIL dragger, the attack that had sent Jim Noying and Mij to hell only minutes earlier. Gasper did not block the attack as it connected. ALl of four's energy went into sneding him away... There was a bright flash and then...

Four fell, one of the other hell demons (The one that looked like a cute marketing tool) ad finished her off when her power oh-so briefly dropped to five. A collective sigh of relief went up among everyone there. All that was left now until another member of the ten arrived was to tie up the loose ends...

Like...
-How did Kitty get the body-less soul of Sevarius Junior to Earth while Sammael was still possessing him? Why does henow have an extra body? More to the point, what to do now that there were two of them with tweo different souls? How will Kari feel about that? Does Kari remember that SJ said he loved her right before he died, like back in November?
-Why did Kari not use her goddess of Athena powers at all during this important battle where her powers would surely have been of use?
-Why kind of fun will the demons SJ introduced be?
-Why the hack have Jim and Kari never mentioned their magic wielding waitress sister Kitty (Katherine) before?
-Is Jim going to throw one of his legendary parties to celebrate the defeat of four?
The answers to all this and more, in the next episode of SOAP! Er... Later rather...

Meanwhile, in HFIL, Four arrived in a cry of agony. SHe looked annoyed, and then her eyes widened in surprise, as she saw the enemy she should have just gotten rid of...
Robby
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 03:14:25 AM
IP: spider-wc041.proxy.aol.com

*Janine wanders in.*

Hi guys. How is everything going? Me I 'm doing okay. I've been really busy. I have three and a half days before the big night. I've been working my butt off trying to get these costumes done and rehersing. I hope this is as fun as it looks. *Crosses her fingers hoping people will not throw rotten fruit at her on saturday.* My friend Jenn is being a pain. Last year I was in a play she directed and that didn't go so well. Now she thinks that I suck as an actress and she keeps harping on me about rehersing. She has no right to judge me on that one experience, but unfortuniatly that is how the world works:( It just means that I have to work twice as hard.

Winterwolf & Brooklyn> Sorry I haven't been online lately. I don't know wgen I'll have time. If you aren't mad at me please drop me a line. I promise I won't bite too hard:)

Gotta go. I'll be around on and off for the rest of the week. Bye.
J.R. - [Purple_Pixy@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 02:14:43 AM
IP: phx-230.treknet.net

And Part 2!

Killing the Villain Makes You Like Them: I too don't care for this clich้ much, and admire Goliath and Norman for breaking it when they did. I am also glad to see characters observe it at the right moments so they don't turn to the dark side, though, like in the episodes Todd mentioned. It does not apply to every situation, but when it does it's good to see. <grins> Just wish it wasn't overused as much as it is. :(

Blade Runner: <smiles> Ah, fond memories of a great movie. Yeah, it did badly at the box office, but I can easily see why that would happen. To experience and enjoy it fully requires a good hard look at the plot and some very deep thought, the kind of thing that most people don't want to apply to a movie unfortunately. That's why deep intelligent films like this (not to mention deep intelligent TV series like Gargoyles) so often fail to register with the majority of people. <sighs> What is wrong with us? Needless to say, I agree with Acyn about this movie. It's a truly great story with intriguing characters and great development of them, high-caliber acting, a decent script, cool sci-fi effects, powerful dialogue, excellent psychological material (I've gotten three A papers out of it up to now), cool soundtrack and visuals, and other great qualities. IMO it is truly a classic film that well deserves the cult following it has. Though there are some things about it I find fault with- it's disturbing at times and should have dealt with many things it didn't, I liked the original version far more than the director's cut, and I feel the story works a lot better if Deckard is human and not in fact a replicant (his relationship with Rachel works better too)- it is still an intriguing and excellently written movie IMO. Glad many people in here agree.

Green Baron: Hope you're right about Gore, good points about Republicans. Thanks for the review of the Patriot, I'm glad Doug and I aren't the only ones in here who really enjoyed it (the Frenchman and Martin becoming friends was also great to watch for us, as was the satisfaction we got at seeing the death of that awful villain Tavington. Most liked the character development done on everyone and the evidence of personal quandaries, deep thoughts, relationship growth and change, etc. This was evident in all the characters, the antagonists as well as the heroes. The Brits who are badmouthing this film IMO need to watch it again with a more open mind, paying less attention to the main villain Tavington and more to the soldiers who are horrified and angered by him, yet have to obey him anyway. They will see much about humanity and war if they do that, and probably think twice about the opinions they choose to have :). Thanks also for revealing the existence of the Orange Order to us, may you give that bunch and Paisley what they deserve in the RP. <grin>

Ironwolf: Welcome back! You got to meet Laurell Hamilton? Oh, great, yet another person in here of whom I'm jealous now. :) I too have enjoyed her books, looking forward to the next one. Congratulations on getting to meet the lady herself.

Stephen: Sorry to hear you got fired. Hope you find a good new job soon, I wish you luck. Will keep you in my prayers.

That's all for tonight. I'm caught up, and I'm tired. Need sleep, especially since I have a test on my last day of summer classes tomorrow. <sigh> Yeah, I've studied, I'm ready for it, and it's in the class with fair grading in which I'm doing well, but still one gets nervous. So pray for me, please, if you will. I would appreciate it. Until next time, and beyond, let us all remain friends, and have good happy wonderful lives.

**BACK TO RP ACTION, EXCUSE LENGTH**

The screen comes on again, showing Area 51 and the Avatar shuttle that has just touched down outside it. The Ravens are standing beside the shuttle, talking to Agent Rho. "So the Avatar is safe now?" Rho is asking. "Everything is fine?" "Except for Mephisto's escape and all the needed repairs," Kit replies, "yes." "I see," the MIB nods. "Well, all for the best. Repairs can be made, demons can be found and defeated later. No real problems. Speaking of repairs, we're almost done fixing all the damage on your truck. The cab we got done with an hour ago, and the trailer will be finished in another three hours. The damage on it was a lot more extensive." "We understand," Doug nods. "However long it takes." "What about the tank we had?" Keith asks. "Did you fix that up too?" "You didn't ask us to," Rho answers, "but yes we did. Any time you want to go bombing around in it, you can now." "Whoopee," Jammer grins. "So, Kit, where do we go next?" "That could take some discussion," she shrugs. Lathrop is about to speak up, but she cuts him off. "I know, you want to see your family. We might go to them, don't worry. Just have to check the news first, see if there's anything more drastic to deal with, any sign of Thailog and his plots." Lathrop frowns but nods, indicating he understands. Doug is about to make a comment, but is interrupted by a shout from nearby. "Hey guys!" Leah Howell calls out, running up with Mansfield just behind her. Kit and a few others look at Rho in confusion. "I let them out," he explains. "We couldn't fix the trailer with them inside it, and they promised not to escape or cause any trouble." "You trust them?" Stephanie raises her eyebrows. Rho nods. "Yes." "Guys!" Leah calls again and Kit, Doug, and Stephanie turn to face her (the others having already looked). "What?" Kit asks, earning several frowns. "Did you get the demons?" Mansfield asked. "It's obvious you're still alive, but did you win?" "Yeah," Tom replies. "We won. Didn't you see it on the camera?" "It turned into static during your fight with that female demon you called Nine," Leah says. "Looked like you ran out of film." "I did?" Tom frowns, looking at the camera. He grins sheepishly. "Oh, I did. Damn, I forgot to check. I'm sorry." "It's okay," Mansfield says. "You got the demon, right?" "Yeah," Boris nods. "We got her. Threw her into the vacuum of space, she suffocated and died. It was pretty cool." "The main demon escaped," adds Elena, "but we got all the others. We'll probably be able to get Mephisto next time we meet." "Yeah," nods Jammer, "and we really want to get him too. Let me tell you why. This demon made a contract with us that was revoked by its own fine print! It was to get him to give us back the soul of our…" He stops as Tricia gives him a glare. "What? She's an okay person?" "She works for Thailog," Tricia snaps, Kit and Stephanie nodding in agreement along with Keith. Lathrop, Orion, Boris, Elena, and Tom frown, while Jammer grins sheepishly and Doug and Anthony both look confused. "Uh, there's something we need to talk to you people about," Mansfield says. "Yeah," Leah adds. "You see, we used to work for Thailog, yes. But now, we've decided we don't want to do that anymore. We watched you bravely battling a kind of threat to the world we never imagined existing, that Thailog never worried about, that seems more dangerous than anything else. The next time you face a threat like that, Bobby and I want to be there to help you." The Ravens stop, all staring at her as she grins and Mansfield nods, shrugging. "It's up to you guys, of course. Do you want our help?" "Well, we…" Doug grimaces. "Guys," Kit raises her hand, "I don't know if we can…" "Kit, these are good people," Tom says. "Let's at least give them a chance." "By the way," Leah adds, "while you were gone, your friend Shap called. I took it. He needs you to call him back as soon as possible. Said it was really important." Kit frowns, looking at the others. "We need to call him, don't we?" Stephanie asks. "It could be more demons." "Or it could be their boss," Keith adds, frowning at the two commandos. "He would have told me if it was," Leah insists. "At least I think he would have. If it is Thailog, that's okay, too. We'll fight him, or I will anyway. He…" "Wait!" Doug jumps in. "There's something confusing me here. Are you guys our enemies or our friends?" "We don't know," Mansfield replies. "She wants to join you guys. Me, I'm not that sure, but…" "But what?" Kit asks. "You think we trust you? You worked for Thailog, we fight him." "Didn't he work for Thailog once?" Leah asks, pointing at Tom. "He fights with you now." "Yeah," Tom nods, "I did, and I do." "He's different," Kit snaps, making a scything gesture. "Tom was a friend of mine before he fought Thailog, and he didn't really know who his boss was. It's…" "It's not different, Kit," Tom insists. "She's a good person, trust me." "We may not be able to trust her completely against Thailog," Orion adds, "but against demons…" "Whoa," Keith cuts in. "Who says we're going to be fighting demons again any time soon? I'd prefer not to." The others frown, some nodding in agreement, as Leah and Mansfield exchange grimaces. Standing nearby, Anthony scratches his head.

The display suddenly changes to the depths of Hell, where Synatia reclines on a bed of hot coals, Pastor John Gould kneeling before her in full demonic glory. "You summoned me, Mistress?" he gulps. "I have told you why I summoned you," she snarls in reply. "I just got through with it. Did you not hear me?" "Yes, I heard, but…" "But what, John?" Synatia growls. "Are you afraid of your old enemies? Afraid you can't beat them? I've given you the power. Gothmenes is also providing help, as is Queen Valerian. They must die, John, do you not realize that? You're the one I've chosen to send after them." "But if I can't beat them, Mistress?" he stammers. "If I fail you?" "Then your demonic body will be destroyed and your soul will go on to eternal torture like that of any other soul in Hell," Synatia snaps. "Don't argue with me, John. I did not make you the way you are to have a servant who was a coward. You will do as I say. You can beat them, don't worry. Just be devious. The power is on your side." "But…" John stammers, "but…" Then he sees the hellfire in her red eyes and nods. "Alright, Mistress. I'll try." "Do or do not," Synatia orders, her eyes flashing. "There is no try." Pastor John nods, and the screen clicks off.

**TO BE CONTINUED NEXT TIME, END THIS CONFLICT-CREATING RP**
Kitainia - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Austin, TX, USA
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 01:53:42 AM
IP: pool-207-205-144-225.dlls.grid.net

**RP HERE- LOOK AWAY IF YOU WISH**

In the Underground City beneath Ankara, Gubio, Erin, Mist, and Terrell have just stepped out of the small building that houses the elevator to the surface. The trio of Ravens are now marveling at the size and beauty of the city spread below the tower on which they stand. Seven square miles, bisected by a wide underground river, are covered with buildings made of shimmering limestone, granite, and obsidian. Set in their walls are magically glowing gems that light everything up. Some of the structures are built into hollowed-out stalagmites and other natural formations, a few are even set into stalactites hanging from the ceiling and connected to the ground and each other by magically supported walkways of stone. Caiveh walk around these and the roads below, most on foot but some traveling on roller skates, motorbikes, and small open-top cars and trucks as well as boats on the river here and there. "How many people of your people are there?" Gubio asks Terrell, trying to count those he sees and giving up. "One thousand, five hundred or so, according to the last census," the caiveh warrior replies. "May I point out some interesting places before we see Vincent?" "Please do," Erin grins. "I think he's interested." Gubio chuckles and nods. "That's our military training facility over there," Terrell begins. "I run it when I'm not doing other things. Everyone undergoes mandatory training here, every caiveh who is born and some humans who choose to come. Erin has been through there of course." "There's some threat you're staying ready for?" Gubio asks. Terrell shakes his head. "Not right now, but there might be in the future. Caivehs are ever patient and ever prepared. Over there is our education complex, we all go through that as well. We learn everything about the world there- science, history, math, medicine, psychology, literature and languages of both your world and ours. It's like a school of the world above. Next to it is our central computer facility, the technology there is roughly equal to yours, all but a few of us are online for free." "Amazing," Gubio grins. "I wonder if I know any of them." "Probably," Terrell grins back. "Most of us use other names when on the Internet of course. That's the central market there, where we trade goods. The warehouse district where we store them is in the north part of the city, adjoining the factory district where things are built. You can see lots of trucks going back and forth between them." Gubio nods. "What's that big hole they're coming out of over there?" "That connects to the herb farms below us, and the gem and mineral mines below them," Terrell answers. "We get our wealth out of there and distribute it among the people in a fashion determined by the Economic Committee. The minting and ore processing facilities are next door, those are the herb processing facilities, and there are stores and houses spread out all over the town. Amusement complexes as well. That building there," he indicates a pillar-enclosed structure close to them, "is the connection to the buildings above us in the stalactites. All our government facilities and offices are housed in them." "We'll be going up there to see Vincent," Erin adds. Gubio nods, then grimaces as a loud roaring sound suddenly echoes from above them. Mist meows nervously. "Someone else scaring people?" Gubio asks. "Sounds more like anger," answers Terrell. "And like Vincent too. His temper must have been aroused. Probably by Kovu." "Kovu?" Gubio asks. "The City's Minister of Defense," Erin explains. "A very bad-tempered isolationist." "He and Vincent disagree often, especially about matters concerning our secrecy and the outside world," adds Terrell. "They argue frequently, and our more vicious arguments often include roars. If it gets bad enough, the two can fight it out in the dueling ground over there." He indicates an arena-like building. "Usually they duel till one yields to the other, but sometimes it's to the death. If Vincent wasn't a pacifist, he'd probably duel often with Kovu, but they never have." Gubio nods. "This Kovu, is his name and its similarity to the hero of a Disney movie a coincidence?" Terrell smiles. "Probably, though he does use it as his name when he's on the Internet. One of the few of us who use their actual names. Kovu is a shortened form of his full caiveh name like Terrell is of mine. He has many friends here and much support for his viewpoint, including our vice leader Tiara." He shakes his head. "I wonder if Vincent is mad at Kovu and Tiara this time, or if it's something else. He's been mad about a lot of other things recently. Of course, he has had frequent bouts of anger ever since he returned to us from your world fifteen years ago. He lived there for a long time. Our lifespan is about twice that of a human being, and Vincent spent much of his early life with the Mole People in the tunnels beneath your New York City. He fell in love with a human woman during that time, but she died and he hasn't been the same since. That's what brought him back to us before we elected him our leader when our old leader Khan passed away in 1992." "He's in a lot of pain," Erin adds. "I don't know him very well, but he undergoes emotional turmoil frequently." "Maybe he needs to get it out," Gubio says. "Tell people. That sometimes helps others." "Vincent has told many people of his life," Terrell sighs. "Both humans and caivehs. One of your kind even took the story and made it into a TV series a few years ago. Did you see it? It was called Beauty and the Beast." Gubio nods, smiling. "I thought the guy's name sounded familiar. But didn't he hook up with Diana?" Terrell frowns. "Who?" "I guess she was an invention of the creators," Gubio replies. Terrell shrugs. "Vincent has not loved anyone since the death of his Catherine. Some say he is incapable of it. He is a wise, intelligent, and worthy leader to us nonetheless. Don't worry, he calms down quickly when he gets angry, and he reacts well to new friends." "I hope you're right," Gubio nods, looking at Erin for confirmation. She nods too, shrugging while Mist meows. "Let's go see him," says Erin. Terrell nods and waves them to follow him toward the cavern pillar containing the elevator to the stalactites above.

**SCREEN FADES OUT, WE'LL SEE VINCENT MEET GUBIO NEXT POST, END FIRST HALF RP**

Hello CR dwellers! <grins> Good to be in the room again. Hassles have kept me away since last Wednesday, but today I am once again getting caught up. And after tomorrow, my life will once again be easier. Tomorrow being my last day of summer classes and all. :) Hope I did at least moderately well in the classes, one I'm not too worried about but the other (where I got that unfair grade) I know I won't be getting as high marks in as I should have. Oh well, sometimes grades don't reflect how well you've learned the material, sometimes you learn it better than the grade indicates. I can demonstrate that if necessary now that it's happened to me again. <sighs> Still wish it hadn't, though. On to replies.

Gasper: Alright, hope you and Robby get the problems resolved soon then. I'm glad you've been showing up in here now and then. Hope you will return again soon, and remain a friend. :) Thanks for the good points about violence you recently made.

Lady Mystic: Very good points about women and relationships. I agree with them, and I too wish that the prejudices you mentioned did not exist in the world. But unfortunately, prejudices are too often something you have to deal with, a necessary evil. <"What? No evil is necessary!"> <sighs> Sorry, Darkwing Duck, you're not always right. <rolls eyes> Firestorm likes short-haired girls and he's never dated one, huh? He's not the only man in the world who's never fulfilled some of his fantasies, I bet. :) But he seems happy enough with you, which is good. :) Good points about violent tendencies and relaxing atmosphere too. Thanks for stopping by and making them all. Enjoy your vacation, see you when you get back.

GXB: What? You were joking? Oh, rats, and you were getting me so excited too. I was even going to beat up Batman so you could keep spoiling things for me, it all sounded so great. Now…<pouts> Just kidding, of course. :)

Madame Destine: Liked "When Fools Rush In" a lot, I'll send you more detailed comments later. Just want to say thanks for letting us know it was up. :)

Shadowrider: Tell Nicola I said don't mention it. :) I too enjoyed his poem on Communists that you sent us, it had very good language. Showed it to a professor friend here who's a big poetry fan and he liked it too. He doesn't know anybody in the poetry publishing industry unfortunately, so he can't put in a good word, but he did like it. :) Hope your friend doesn't get discouraged and keeps writing, he's got a real talent. God willing, it will be recognized one of these days. :) BTW, I too have seen Il Postino and enjoyed it very much. A moment of silence for great actor Masimo Trossi, I had no idea he was dead. :(

Brooklyn: Welcome back! Hope you enjoyed your vacation in Chicago. Doug and I have been thinking of stopping by there one of these days. We want to see that big new T-Rex skeleton they have in the museum. Did you check it out? If so, was it spectacular as it seems on the news? Just curious. <shrugs> Good luck with your fanfic, hope you can get the next bit out soon.

SOROW: Sorry about your losing your promotion, that really bites. Hope you can get a chance at it again someday. At least you're not letting it get you down. Glad you had fun on the camping trip and returned safe. :)

Gside: Thanks for understanding and not getting too mad about my lack of technical skills. I'm glad you could clarify a few things for me. :) It was very much appreciated. You're right about CDs and the Pompeii bodies too, I looked it up. Now I know I shouldn't be so sure I'm always right. <sheepish grin> Thanks very much for that little lesson. $ By the way, Guod is 380 Megabytes of data, not 400. It's a Simpsons reference- "Here you are, sir, the M-380. Celebrate the freedom of your nation by blowing up a small part of it." :).

Mecord: Will miss you while you're gone, but understand. Hope you come back soon. As Gside said, may your problems be solved sooner and easier than you expect. :) $ Don't worry, we won't do anything drastic with Lloky while you're gone, we'll treat her well. And we'll give you a full update on anything we do wind up doing when you return. :) $

Warpmind: Good point about the rights of bigots. Still wish we didn't have them, though. I don't like them very much. <grins>

Niamhgold: Don't mention it. I'm just concerned about those children and hope they will have a good life now after going through such a traumatic experience. May no more lie in their future, near or far. :)

Curly++: Okay, we'll start calling you by your actual name now. Welcome to the CR, new friend. :) We've become pals with your daughter, and I'm sure it can be done with you as well. <grin> Glad you're enjoying the place enough to reveal your true identity and interact with us without your parenthood getting in the way too much. :) Congrats on triumphing over that tumor as much as you have, hope that soon it's completely gone if it's not already. :) Also glad that you did watch Gargoyles and enjoy it, it is a wonderful show. And someday, we'll see it and more programs like it on television instead of the dreck they usually put out. <fingers crossed>

Christine: Another Shameless Plug? Oh boy. :) Hope to be reading it real soon, am excited. Thanks for letting us know it was on the way. Good luck dealing with your in-laws, hope it's not too difficult. Thanks also for your good points about gargoyle psychology and the species being doomed. You're not the only one it disturbs. :(

Aaron: Freud as a coke-sniffing mama's boy. Hmm. I hate the guy, but I didn't think he was that bad. <shrugs> Oh well, at least I know he was a lot more nuts than many of the people he evaluated, and most of my professors agree.

DPH: Congrats on the job, sorry you have to work Sundays though. Hope you can somehow get them to ease off in the future. Good luck.

SJ: Sorry to hear you have such an unfortunate viewpoint about the world. You're right that sometimes the majority of people are being conformist and flat out wrong about things, but there are always the exceptions that prove the rule. The Internet is a good thing, right? Millions of people like it. There are also millions of people out there who like Buffy, Angel, Gargoyles, Cristina Aguilera, and lots of other things you like. Sometimes people are wrong about things, but sometimes they're right. Sometimes those things really are good, lots of people liking them does not make them bad no matter how often we've seen evidence of people being swayed to give something undeserving ignorance or praise. I'm not trying to change you, I just think you should acknowledge that. Also, you shouldn't judge things you have no experience with whatsoever in a negative fashion, like you've judged Titanic and Harry Potter. Both have their imperfections, yes (I too cannot believe all the hype and attention Harry Potter's getting despite it being a great series, Titanic did have a lot of bad acting and some plot holes as well as a song that the radio stations overplayed, and so on), but they have good points too. One should not be blind to them. Check them out before you make judgements, if you still don't like them after that at least you'll be better able to say why and justify your opinion instead of just going, "Oh, thousands of other people like them, but I don't want to be conformist, so I hate them." That will earn you confused looks and pity more than it will anything else, and you don't want that, right? You really should at least give them a chance, maybe you'd even find something you like. Harry Potter for example is a very dark series. I've read the books, and they're not all sunlight, happiness, and good magic like the hype makes them seem. They're also very realistic, and from what I've heard they're supposed to become more so (as well as darker and full of more violence and insanity) as the series goes on. Don't you go for that stuff? Hope you'll at least listen to this, you don't have to act on it, I'm just countering your viewpoint. Please note- I do not like things such as Harry Potter and Titanic just because thousands of others like them. I like them for the good qualities they have, and will keep giving them my positive attention because of those qualities. I'll give them negative attention too, if I feel it warranted. There are many things I'll also give purely negative attention to even though the majority of people like them- I despise Pokemon and almost everything about politics, I hate the Power Rangers, I have had fantasies about murdering the Backstreet Boys that have disturbed others but not me, I feel Demona could be a great advocate of Girl Power if she'd just give up the anti-human craze,…I don't need to go on. The point is- Don't make negative prejudgments. They're never worth it. Look at the things you think you don't like, and see if you're right or wrong. Don't just form an opinion, justify it. You'll end up a person who's more content with their life and has more friends. Take it from me, I've discovered this to be true. :)

Rodlox: Uh, also, what kind of radioactive atom are we talking about here? One with a long half-life or a really short one that could release the gas in five minutes? Those do exist, you know. :(

GXB: <I have not and never will watch Titanic> Read what I said to SJ above. If you still don't want to see the movie after reading the points I've made, that's fine, but I don't think you should judge something with which you've had no individual experience. Yeah, by missing out on Titanic, you don't have to suffer through a somewhat awful movie with plot holes bigger than any holes torn in the ship, bad acting from Leo-nerdo Di-Crapio, a song they played too much that isn't really that great, and so on. But you'll also miss out on watching a great actress who should have gotten an Oscar for the brilliant job she did in the role of a strong heroine trapped in a bad situation who gets out of it pretty much on her own initiave with only inspirational help from the guy she hooks up with. Billy Zane does a great job playing an evil selfish jerk too. And James Cameron's direction was wonderful, except for the plot holes and other flaws in the script. The movie does have its good points as well as its bad, everything does. Remember that, and don't make prejudgments. Or if you do, remember your life will be better if you can find some way to justify them that people will listen to and understand without your having to lie. "I hate X because the majority of people like it, and the majority's always wrong," does not apply. It's not always true either. :)

Katara: Welcome back! Great to see you again, I did not forget you. In fact, I've been missing you a lot. Glad you've returned, and you're doing alright. Also happy belated birthday. May your life continue to be enjoyable, and hope you come back soon.

Next Season of Gargoyles: Many things I want to see. More attention to Thailog, the Ultra-Pack, the Canmores, and all the other old series characters we know and love would be great. The new characters should get some attention too, but I do not want them dominating things like they did last season. The relationships between the characters we have now, and developing them as well as the characters themselves through the plots they create is enough to fill plenty of stories without bringing in anyone new. As for slowing down the progression of Goliath & Elisa's love and Demona's redemption, I tend to agree somewhat even though I like all the steps toward what they will become that have been made. There needs to be some conflict, some regression, a little emotional turmoil and debates before the big change so the series keeps its realistic feel. And especially at this point and time there should always be some hints that things really aren't as good and progressed as they seem- even in Doug's fanfics, where Demona is completely reformed by her own admonition and has a male human for a best friend, she still frequently has bouts of rage in which she curses humanity and expresses her hatred for it, suggesting it's still there even though she says she's given it up for Angela's sake and because of what she's learned. One often wonders whether she's really learned anything and changed at all. :) I'm not advocating that the same thing happen in TGS, but there should at least be something like it. I agree that Demon's redemption is much too fast at its present pace. Her own thoughts need to be dealt with more, she needs to be shown sorting through her feelings and deciding which she will adopt, rather than just reacting to situations and seeming to change without much of a decision-making process and self-debate like she did in Season 2 IMO. Hope we see some of this. The other characters need to undergo the same things also, and not just in response to what they think of Demona (though this is a good example, we really need to see more of the reasons for and process of how things change and not just have them be that way, especially when it comes to one character's viewpoint about another. Just something I've noticed and observed). Xanatos should also be shown to be his old self in some ways, though we should not erase or forget the progress he's made. I don't think things have moved too fast with anyone (especially not Goliath and Elisa, now that we know why they moved as far ahead as they did this season- thanks Kathy!), just that we should have seen more evidence of how and why they moved the way they did. That got lost somehow. Yeah, what went on was explained now by Patrick and others in ways with which we can agree, but IMO we should have been able to see it more easily right off. Guess we need more introspection. <shrugs> Hope the process of change will be explored more in this next season. I also hope to see more not-completely-happy endings to episodes in Season 3, part of the old Gargoyles charm were the episodes like that. Happy endings are great, yes, but I find them infinitely more satisfying when there's a lot of buildup and bad things happening that the characters have to triumph over first. Partial victories are also far more realistic. We hold Gargoyles as an ideal series, let us not forget the things that made it become so in our minds.

Archwolf: I too would be interested in seeing that WOT 9 e-mail. Hope you can find it and show it to us soon, and that they really end up doing the things you hinted at. The idea with Rand and Lews Therin sounds very intriguing. :) Also hope Jordan soon resolves the Asmodean and Mazrim Taim mysteries, and bring back all the great characters who weren't in the last book that I've been missing- like Thom, Shaidar Haran, Dain Bornhald (his problem with Perrin needs to be resolved sometime soon, damn it!), Aram, and especially Mat.

Gargoyle Biology, Lifespans, and Psychology: I could say a lot about this, but I don't have the energy right now. Human psychology is confusing and troublesome enough. :) I will say, though, that I agree with the people who debate the argument that gargoyles' and immortals' longer lifespan makes them do things slower than humans. There is evidence in the series for the truth of that, but IMO there is a lot more that shows they can be and often are creatures of the moment with very mortal-and-human-like qualities such as frustration, worry, fear, impatience, eagerness, desire to get things done NOW, and so on. If y'all want me to, in my next post I will go into why I believe this and the examples I have seen, but I don't want to tonight. I have other things I need to do, like sleep soon. :) You can also watch the series and read TGS and look for the examples yourself, thinking creatively about what they mean when you find them and not just taking the obvious argument. You'll learn more that way, probably, and it will save me some trouble too. :) Just the expression of an opinion. I also think Winterwolf makes a very good point about sleep.

Acyn, Icarus, Sidritch, Oracle, and Raven: Welcome, newcomers. Hope you enjoy this place and don't mind giving up your sanity during your stay (unless of course it's already gone :). We shall enjoy making friends with you and remaining so for as long as you stick around. :)

Bronx: <growls> I'm very mad at whoever burned down that horse barn too. I like horses too, and though I've only ridden one once (got thrown, bad experience, never did it again), I do agree they are noble and wonderful animals. Stridor of He-Man, 30-30 of Bravestar, Una of Gargoyles, and other horse-like heroes have also been favorite characters of mine in the past. It angers me greatly to hear of a person who could do such a thing as you describe. Even worse is the strange feeling I have that they did it for insurance money or something like that. <groans> May they be found, caught, and punished in an appropriate manner (nothing so drastic as some people describe, but I definitely would not mind if they were locked up for a VERY long time :).

Fanfic: I agree that it's done for the authors as well as the fans. I've seen much evidence of that with Doug. Of course, even he really looks forward to feedback and appreciates it when it comes. Wishes he'd get more too (hint, hint). Hope all of us will remember this as we read fanfic and also continue to read and think deeply and imaginatively about it. The experience we get out of doing this, the plot and character development we can enjoy watching and experiencing, is truly wonderful even if we don't see all our expectations meant. Hope we remember this when we give feedback, but more importantly that we remember to give some to those whose work we read. :)

Mary: <Those little brats are SO going to pay> Good! <grins> Jerks like that need serious reprimanding. Hope they get it and it pays off. :)

Uh oh, I'm getting close to the length limit. :( Part 2 of post coming up!
Kitainia - [frostfire@mail.utexas.edu]
Austin, TX, USA
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 01:52:36 AM
IP: pool-207-205-144-225.dlls.grid.net

Greetings all...

Well, the other shoe finally fell.

Today, after being told that my work hours were going to be increased, I went into work and was told to report to the new Assistant Manager (a new woman whose been rather nice to work with, I must say). She told me that the owner felt he had too many people on staff, so he told her and the current Head supervisor to pick 3 people out of the different areas (front counter, fry side and grill) and lay them off... well, guess who was # 3?

She told me this wasn't because of any poor work performance on my part (despite the fact of my bad ankles), but that it's just how the lots fell this time. I can expect my final paycheck on the 20th, she said, and then she told me it was good to work with me while it lasted.

So, now, I have no job... for the moment. I came home today and Andrea (my missus) turned around and took me out to a job fair that had been scheduled for a few hours. I found a few prospects... nothing guaranteed, but eh, we'll have to see...

Anyway, Just to let everyone know what's been going on. Maintain and Check Six.

Stephen Sobotka, Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Spokane, WA, USA
Wednesday, July 12, 2000 12:05:59 AM
IP: m169.ieway.com

*Cyborg enters, tierd from a very long weekend, and catching up afterwards*
This ComiCon was a small one (the Comicon happens a few times a year with only one 'big' one). It was only one room and there was no animee showing. I managed to pick up some Shirow trade paperbacks (Dominion and Appleseed (Prometheos)) and some of Conflict 1 (no more noise). Steve finished off his Animal Mystics collection and got some of Dragonball that he was missing. We blew way too much money (especially considering that we will be going back for the 'big' one in September) but had alot of fun.
I ended up spending more time with Steve than I was expecting too, now I'm too tierd to really post, just catch up, so please excuse my spelling and grammar. I have not even checked my e-mail, so if you tried to reach me I won't know until tomorow.
I found something interesting before the weekend- clickie my name (you literary persons), you won't want to have missed this!

**Non- COnformity Poll Stuff**
Update> two goths, three oddballs, one gifted, two who prefer not popularized pastimes, four individualists, one hellraiser, one with Asperger's Syndrome, one Daria- esque, one FTW type, one F-W-C-G-F-B

Archwolf>"one Furry Werewolf computer geek fencer bike rider type person" uh, that's kinda long, how could I shorten it?

Warpmind>"Why do people see me as different? Umm... lessee now..." Sounds goth to me (and a pretty one at that) *drools over mental image of that jacket* You like velvet? So do many of my friends here, in fact, worship of velvet is part of the docterine of our religion. I belong to the Church of Monkey; congregation of the Dawson Science- Fiction and Fantasy Assotioation (and University affiliates) *begins to caress a random item of velvet clothing someone is wearing* So I should change your number to 'goth'?

Spacebabie>"Non Conformity-poll, uh, I dont know what I am yet...besides shy" The thing with my survey is that YOU don't have to know why you don't conform to the norm- It's asking what those 'norm' think of you and how they see you as not like them.

Winterwolf>"I just don't know. Maybe I'll just go with dazed and confused for now." Should I actually put you down as that? Should I wait for you to make up your mind? As long as I get information, I'll run the survey, so don't rush yourself.

Green Baron>"monst non-conformists are not as conservative" My additudes are often considered non- conformist precisly because they are so conservative (bare- foot and pregnant, etc.)
**End of Non- Conformity Poll Suff**

Green Baron (again)>"With your father watching, I shouldn't flirt with you too much" You don't have to worry too much about my Father, it's my boyfriend you have to watch out for. *Cyborg starts to gush* He is soo overprotective (just like a gargoyle)! It is soooo nice, and I had best stop babbling about him before it gets so sacharine in here that someone sticks a finger down their throat (I love that line). Part of that is my fault, I know. I have been told that I sometimes display quite a flirtatious manner.
Unfortunatly, I don't really have any recent pictures of myself, the most recent one I have is not really accurate (my mother...)

Curly++>"you were the first to suggest baby pictures" Well I did not want to say that parents are embarasing because I don't think that you are going to embarase me. However, I wanted to make a common kid complaint (I don't know why, for effect or because I felt like it or something).

Brooklyn> I haven't had a moment yet, but soon I will read Part 2 and send you my coments (I'll try a little less red pen this time if you want). I'll also send you _Untitled Gargoyle Short- short_ then (if I CAN send it).

Wilek>"I got 90-100% on most of them..." Funny, (Dad, don't look, j/k (maybe)) my ego inflates when I get a LOW score. Must be me rebelling against my shelterd and catholic convent upbringing.

Well, I see that Ironwolf has returned. Somehow, I knew he (or Kitara) would. I had what Steve said was a werewolf... dream the other night. **Dream warning** We were all living in some kind of mansion or converted school or something, denziens of the CR turned denziens of a home. It was late night and everyone I saw was asleep, but I was restless (I have that problem, I wake up at 3 am), I was walking around the home. I went down a flight of stairs or two to the second floor, there was a balcony there. There were stairs down to the sitting room on the first floor and I saw a gargoyle reading there (I think it was Wilek- he had blue skin). I opened the sliding glass door to the balcony and took a step outside. It was a nice night. I looked for the moon. Have you ever seen a full moon low on the horizion so that it was tinged a brownish- red? A blood moon. That's how the moon was, and as I looked at it, I got such a feeling of wrongness, that I couldn't explain. It disturbed me so I looked down at the yard. There below me, staring at the house but also somehow at me, was a large dog/wolf of dark brown/black patterned fur. It was not acting doggish. It was not moving. It's toung was not hanging out of it's mouth and it's eyes were not moving but it was very alive. I looked at it and was terrified. There was the same wrongness with it as with the moon. I tried to scream, and I couldn't. I tried to turn and run, and I couldn't. I was paralized. I finally managed to silently, my mouth opened to scream, inch my way backwards. As I passed through the doorway, I woke up. Screaming. **End dream recitation**
I guess it is not very flattering to you (I am not terrified of you wolves, nor of dogs), but after that dream, I could not get you out of my head.

Au revoir
Cyborg - [sdcurtin@crosswinds.net]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:44:53 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Curly++ sticks his head in the door and quickly runs his fingers down the newest graffitti on the wall. "Yup, gotta get back and read that later... and that... oh yeah, that too! Hay, what's this! Humph, ok quick post."

Emambu>>
"Blade Runner" <The replicants ... are the supposed "bad guys" of the film.>
How do you figure that? IIRC, they barely got introduced until there was plenty of foreshadowing of the immensly abused power of the corporation that built them. The clues were subtle, but right from the start the replicants were portrayed as victims.

Sevarius Jr.>>
<what the hell's wrong with some of you? Wanting to set the offenders on fire?>
Some people haven't outgrown the need for gladiatorial spectacles. Murdering offenders is not about retribution or justice, it's about entertainment and feeling superior. When I was in the hospital, one of my roommates had CNN tuned in for the whole day when an execution was scheduled in the USA. What a horrible spectacle, the murder of a man by his government turned into a sideshow. I was sick all day. Well ok, that's redundant, I was sicker because I had to listen to that so-called news reporting.
We had a case here in Canada where a man who was convicted of the rape and murder of a 12 year old neighbor was still alive last year only because we abolished our death penalty just about the time he was convicted. His family, after many years of effort, convinced a judge to order DNA testing on the still-existing semen stains on the girls panties. Guess who was innocent? Then the star witness from the original trial steped forward and described how the police, twenty years ago, convinced her to change her story because if she told the truth this "guilty" man would have gone free. I wonder how many other little girls died because the police chose to railroad the wrong man. Are you arrogant enough to think this never happens in the great USA?
<Killing another human being because he lit up several horses is just wrong. [snip] comes to the taking of human life, do it for the right reasons>
So you think it would have been good to murder the unpopular neighbor boy 20 years ago. Are you popular with your neighbors?

<Ridley Scott has finally given us an answer> It's a while since I saw the movie, but wasn't it clear when he compared his own photos and letters with those of one of the known replicants? BTW, this was real sci-fi, most SF movies of today are just action pictures in costumes.
Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:16:28 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Christine::Gargoyle reproduction > I agree completely; the gargoyles being bound to a 20-year reproductive cycle, plus the slower aging rate, plus the one-egg-at-a-time thing and the ten year gestation pretty much means that they're doomed.

How so? It seems that the problem in Gargoyle population has not been so much a lack of babies being born, but a staggering amount of betrayal and violent death due to their acting out on their protective instincts. (Wyvern and Guatemala are instances of this)

Christine::Example: a human and gargoyle female are born/hatched on the same day. Fifteen years later, the human female has reached sexual maturity and can start having babies, as fast as one a year. By the time the gargoyle female reaches 40 (the age at which she's supposed to hit the next breeding cycle), the human female could have more than 20 kids (assuming that she doesn't die in childbirth and that they all survive), the oldest several of which could already have made her a grandmother. So our female gargoyle breeds, lays 1 egg, and then waits ten years before it hatches ... is it any wonder humans outnumber them so?


Ne ne.. that's not right.

You're assuming that the human female's had sexual relations during the three days up until ovulation (how long sperm survives in ideal conditions) from age fifteen to age forty when she was either not pregnant nor sexual active in the six weeks after birth.
The odds for that are highly unlikely, not mentioning trauma to the uterine area with each passing birth would make it highly difficult for each successive baby. Also, you're forgetting that Gargoyles age at 1/2 the rate of humans. When the gargoyle female is forty biologically, the human female will be eighty biologically and with an astromical amount of grandchildren, greatgrandchildren and great great grandchildren if her offspring live her exclusively insane breeding habits. (does Cuba export enough congradulatory cigars for this?)

Also, Gargoyle females dont lay only one egg in their lifetime. WIth their slow aging, the ideal gargie femme has from perhaps puberty at 15 to 45 biolgically (ninety years old chronologically) assuming they have the equivelent of human menopause she has the opportunity to breed at the biologicalages 15, 25 (in twenty years, she is bilogically only ten years older) 35, and 45. That's four eggs right there, in the conditions you laid out for a human female. There may not even be a menopause at biological 45.

Christine::Wait ... something in that doesn't add up ... breeding every 20 years but eggs take 10 to hatch ... an egg conceived in 2000 would hatch in 2010, the next breeding cycle would be in 2020 but the garg would be too young to participate, the one after that would be in 2040 ... that makes our garg 30 ... the equivalent of 15. So that's when she'd be able to start.

If she has a mate. If she wants to have children. Same with the human female. There are ofcourse social factors to take into account as well. The number of mated/unmated males in any given Clan. Food resources. Same with the human. If either species overpopulates any given area (with Gargoyles especially bound to the land of their ancestors, such as Ishimuru, London, Guatemala and the recently transported Wyvern-maybe they're not in Scotland, but they're in their castle. And Goliath made a large deal out of Angela's anscetreal grounds) they are liable to starvation, disease and the using up of reasources (which the Gargoyle species, is, ironically in such a situation, sworn to protect)

Christine::Bleah ... I just woke up ...

And I just wish I could sleep. Darn summer camp job. Overtired means no sleep for Mara.

this is hard to think about even when I'm at my best! Anyway, the species is doomed and would probably be even if they were the only sentients on the planet. A gargoyle couple would have to have two successful breeding cycles just to replace themselves in the population, and allowing for accidents, illness, infant mortality, and things like that ... yep, doomed.

Cheery thought.

Obviously, their numbers are far lower than the billions of humans on Earth, but I could think them far from doomed. Far less doomed than the human species at any rate. With less numbers, gargoyles standard of life is much higher, there is enough food to
go around. With their traditional communal lifestyle, there is less chance of accidents (if the elder generation is considered parents to ALL hatchlings, then there is better supervision) Illness is more or less rare with the "concrete cure all" that the sun's gives during their stone sleep. More adaptable to hot and cold, they could hypothetically live in climates and areas that humans can not. Given the chance, and the time needed, the species could easily bloom. Alas, it is not to be.

We humans have the shorter end of the stick. Overpoplated areas, lack of reasources, a capratistic society where money is the difference between those with good lives and those with empty bellies. Also, humans have a destrcutive tendency contradicting gargoyles protective tendencies. That's why, hypothetically, gargoyles are so near to endangerment or extinction than we are.

::goes off to find some ice tea mix::


Shinigami
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:08:02 PM
IP: spider-we071.proxy.aol.com

Niamhgold:
You haven't seen "Holy Grail"? Shocking, truly shocking. You should be able to rent it at any video rental store. It's worth it.

I agree with what you said about the Goliath/Elisa relationship. I've been known to over-analyze as well. :P Which is why I've probably finished with this topic for now.

There seems to be a number of people with Scottish blood here. I'm a quarter myself, and my middle name (and my mother's maiden name) is Bruce.
----
Icarus:
Welcome.
Theories? Conversation? Here? Never happen. :)
----
SOROW:
Hello. :) Welcome back from your trip.
----
::waves to "Anonymous":: ;)
----
Christine:
Good points. Although Todd is right: it is pretty depressing. One thing that always bothered me was the 10 period for the eggs to hatch. I don't see how it could be possible for a gargoyle egg to hold enough nutrients to last that long. Where does the embryo get it's energy? Not the sun (like the adults); the eggs are kept underground. Just something I was thinking about.
----
Sidritch:
Welcome.
Pistoff doesn't post here anymore. He has a web site at http://members.xoom.com/pissysplace/
----
I'm tired. 'Nite people.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 10:31:38 PM
IP: ppp-30.rb5.exit109.com

thought i post and let yall know i am alive. got back from dragon con and well they had a surprise guest Laurell Hamilton! I had a blast talking about the books with the girls in the line. Funny thing about her most 98% of her fans seem to be female. A matter of fact that was the bigest complaint i heard was that thier boyfriend/husbands wouldn't read the books. Now here the coolest part they handed out early copies of her book kiss the shadows. Yep i got a couple and it will be months before it hits the stores! This new series is set in another universe than the anita blake series and deals strictly with the faye!
later gators
Ironwolf - [cag16@bellsouth.net]
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 10:26:45 PM
IP: host-209-214-41-146.cha.bellsouth.net

*pops in for a sec* Heyo. I don't know if anyone is looking, but I figured I'd ask. I'm going to be able to make it to Orlando this year, but I still have my room reserved. If anyone is hard up for a room, seeing that the hotel is booked, give me a buzz. I don't know how it'd work, but I personally have no use for the room anymore. *sniffle* So if you're interested, you know where to reach me.
Oracle - [oracle@graffiti.net]
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 10:15:40 PM
IP: dyn1-tnt1-241.milwaukee.wi.ameritech.net

Spacebabie, I'm not questioning your sanity...just using caps for effects. I hope I did not offend you at all.

Gasper
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 09:35:23 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Ack.. I compleatly forgot that I was going out of the country for two weeks when I wrote the post about what happend to Pistoff.

I don't know what the replies were to that, and I was wondering what happened to him... IMO His fan fic's were great.

If anyone knows what happened to him.. (I'm sure someone must know something...)

Thanks beforehand
Bye *waves*


Sidritch
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 09:30:28 PM
IP: 63-226-131-102.customers.uswest.net

MY THOUGHTS- on a few topics.

****MOVIE SPOILERS ****
I use the spoilers sign above, because I wish to briefly discuss one of the MAJOR underlying riddles of "Blade Runner" (....hmmm..... hint.....)
One of the many reasons the movie was so great, was that it explored "What it means to be human." Remember the motto of the company that made replicants? "More Human than Human" The replicants had blood, flesh, sweat, emotions, desires, dreams.... Yet they are not considered human. They are machines. Tools. Slaves. Why? A five year life span? Lack of memories? The fact that it didn't come from a "mother and father?" Decker saw things this way, until he fell in love with one. Now where is the boundry drawn?
It wouldn't be hard to move the thought process over to the Gargoyles universe. Especially considering the apparent mating of G and E. And don't forget the mutates. Is Derrick a human? He was born of human parents. He's mortal, has no emotions or thoughts or memories forced/programmed into him from outside sources. His form was changed on the genetic level, but what about his mind is different?
So Blade Runner could be viewed on many different levels. The ascendance of "artificial" hunanity into true humanity. The struggle to find your true nature, no matter who/what you are. The fight of a race to survive, and even more, break the bonds holding it down from full self-realization.
That, and an ultra cool soundtrak, BEAUTIFUL visuals, and one of the best death speeches in movie history, IMO. I could go on and on, but this is the wrong list, so on to 3 quick other thoughts.

Gargoyles and cancer.
I don't know enough of the full nature of the ailment, but aren't tumors one of the seious effects of cancer? It is a cell that deteriorates from the healthy one to a malignant one. So I would think (if that assessment is right) that stone sleep would "fix" the cell or eliminate the tumor, even if it couldn't genetically get rid of the predisposition for such things to keep happening.

Fanfic Writers/writing. I "write" because it's how I can express myself. That, and music are two of the few ways I can "create." I will probably never build my own house or furniture, or paint, or operate and save a life, or program the next best-selling computer app. But I write. I write FANFIC because I can identify with the characters and emotions a particualr show may offer. And - finally - I POST fanfic because I hope (I admit it, I am a little vain here. Rightfully or not.) I can inspire other fans of the show. Or provoke them. Or please them. Or make them laugh or whatever, and THAT part requires feedback. Not "praise", necessarily, but feedback. A response, or rebuttal or acknowledgement that you are out there. No I don't "need" feedback to keep writing. I'll be doing that anyway. (hopefully.) But the reason I post is to join the society of Gargoyle fans. Or Star Trek fans, or whatever. The fanfic story starts a dialogue. At least that's how I see it.

Finally - I havent finished the second season TGS yet, so maybe this is not as informed as it could be, but as far as 3rd season stories? More Clones and Mutates! Including Fang, but especially Claw. :>

Acyn
OK, USA
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 09:27:50 PM
IP: ygordial141.gorilla.net

Gargoyle reproduction > I agree completely; the gargoyles being bound to a 20-year reproductive cycle, plus the slower aging rate, plus the one-egg-at-a-time thing and the ten year gestation pretty much means that they're doomed.

Example: a human and gargoyle female are born/hatched on the same day. Fifteen years later, the human female has reached sexual maturity and can start having babies, as fast as one a year. By the time the gargoyle female reaches 40 (the age at which she's supposed to hit the next breeding cycle), the human female could have more than 20 kids (assuming that she doesn't die in childbirth and that they all survive), the oldest several of which could already have made her a grandmother. So our female gargoyle breeds, lays 1 egg, and then waits ten years before it hatches ... is it any wonder humans outnumber them so?

Wait ... something in that doesn't add up ... breeding every 20 years but eggs take 10 to hatch ... an egg conceived in 2000 would hatch in 2010, the next breeding cycle would be in 2020 but the garg would be too young to participate, the one after that would be in 2040 ... that makes our garg 30 ... the equivalent of 15. So that's when she'd be able to start.

Bleah ... I just woke up ... this is hard to think about even when I'm at my best! Anyway, the species is doomed and would probably be even if they were the only sentients on the planet. A gargoyle couple would have to have two successful breeding cycles just to replace themselves in the population, and allowing for accidents, illness, infant mortality, and things like that ... yep, doomed.

Cheery thought.

In other news > be warned, I am liable to be b*tchier than usual for the next few days; no, not PMS, but my in-laws are visiting about a month sooner than I was under the impression they were visiting, so I have to cram all my usual stressing and whining into one week instead of four ...

Christine
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 09:09:39 PM
IP: 14-066.009.popsite.net

Quick Note, as in you'd HAVE TO BE CRAZY to consider Oolong a cute cuddly creature. He actually WANTS to collect as many womens panties to add to his collection.

Gregory and Bubbles are for training really, and comic relief, so cute and cuddly is out.

But that's my opinion.

Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 09:09:25 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Winterwolf, if you do not mind, I would like at least a 5 day period before anyone posts any more BFTS RP so we can do some major planning.

I sympathize with you, Winterwolf. My job takes 30 minutes to drive there and 30 minutes to go home. That is 9 hours of the day gone. Then, add in 9 hours of sleep plus 45 minutes to get up, eat breakfast, fix lunch, and get dressed to go to work, it adds up to 5 hours and 15 minutes usable time.
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 07:12:29 PM
IP: max1-16.cwy.cei.net

Icarus: this is a place for conversation....and what sort of theories tdo you mean??

Rodlox
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 05:03:19 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

It is always sad when the most helpless of our friends are hurt or killed. <<hugs>> Don't ever forget them Bronx. They live in your heart.

Fox is showing an X-men behind the scenes tonight at 7 mountain time. Check your schedule.
Anonymous
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 04:33:59 PM
IP: proxy-383.public.rwc.webtv.net

Just dropping in to say hello.
SOROW
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 04:07:34 PM
IP: dll2a010-0430.splitrock.net

Where do I look for the most plausible theories?
Any ideas would be great.y
Where is the best place for conversation?
Icarus
Sothampton, Hampshire, England
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 03:47:18 PM
IP: spider-th032.proxy.aol.com

...
Icarus
Southampton, Hampshire, England
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 03:43:15 PM
IP: spider-th032.proxy.aol.com

...
Icarus
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 03:40:10 PM
IP: spider-th032.proxy.aol.com

** Niamhgold enters **

Hola, gang! I have returned, and with a suntan! Do you know how _hard_ it is for me to change even the smallest increment in shading? Whoo-hoo!

GB: <derned Scottish blood> : Dark hair and blue eyes... *sigh* I feel that that is the most awesome color combination (other than red hair and green eyes)! My brother got that in our family. But don't get me wrong, I like my Scottish/Irish blood :) So much history on that side of my family...we originally came from the MacLochlans and the O'Hagens. Plus, that's where I get my light eye color :) I also have light brown hair (since you asked what I looked like) :) It's quite difficult to tell that I'm half Italian, but if you saw my nose, you'd know ;) <GB in a suit> I think I'm starting to get the general impression that you're very handsome :) Maybe it was because Christine almost swooned when she heard you'd be in an official uniform? ;)

Zath: < Aquarius as an air sign > That's one that has always bugged me. I'm not an expert, but I think that the reason is because Aquarius is representative of some who, for lack of a better phrase, "goes with the flow." So maybe they assumed that Aquariuses are so wafty and free-spirited allows them to be airy, as well. Or, they could have just started with fire and Aries, gone around the twelve signs of the Zodiac alternating with the four signs, and that's just what Aquarius got stuck with ;)

Wilek: < Chief Engineer > Then would you happen to know where my supplier got off to? He's got butterfly wings, an elephant nose, and...well, you'll know 'im when you see 'im ;)

Gside: I also tried the s8 page, too, but it wouldn't come up :( Was I the only one who encountered this problem? Thanks for the suggestion, though! <Monty Python and the Holy Grail> ** Whimpers pleadingly ** Where can I catch this? Even my parents make me feel left out in this department--it's one big joke for them, but peanuts to me because I haven't yet seen it! :0

Winterwolf: < Nova specialist > Yeah! ** Cracks her knuckles ** I can handle that! I'll always try and delude myself and say I'm using 95% of my brain. The other 5% I'm simply keeping for backup ;) Sorry you didn't get to do anything fun over the weekend--it's supposed to be a beautiful week, though! <Titanic> It was all right, but *very* drawn out. The love story unfortunately dwarfed the bigger picture of the overall tragedy. I'm more a fan of action/adventure flicks--and non-Disney animation :)

Bronx: ** Co-lights a candle ** That's horrible about the horses! Man, if I'm super-protective of _one dog_, then I don't know how I'd react if it happened over here! :(

Sevarius Jr.: I think your idea about natural selection and the disappearance of gargs is greatly founded--despite living longer, humans would be able to reproduce in shorter amounts of time. Maybe that's why, in the show, the Magus's act of magically entrapping the gargoyles was more an act of Fate (or God, or whatever have you), in order to save the race by transplanting them in the future. This way, gargs would have a better chance at survival (by changing their views about reproduction and such).

Quick TGS stuff, since most of my opinions have been said:

Goliath and Elisa: I don't think they're moving too fast, but I do think they should determine whether Goliath made the decision out of love or fear. However, I don't want to see over-analysis of the situation...because then, it stops being about love and becomes more mechanical, more planned. Life is not about well-made plans and a nicely paved path. It's about going off the path, playing things by ear, and going with what your heart tells you. If we all went to an amusement park, sat there, and over-analyzed the pros and cons of eating french fries, we'd all end up hungry and conflicted. I'm a chronic over-analyzer, but I'm slowly learning that relaxing and going with the flow yields less heartache and more inner peace.

Demona: I think she should stay a Xanatos-type character--nice to the clan, but still doing dirty deeds behind their backs. A villain. Heh heh heh.

Gargoyle aging: Has anyone wondered about coronary heart disease or genetic diseases in a garg that cannot be cured by stone sleep (because I don't see stone sleep as DNA-altering)? If they can get forms of a cancer-like illness, then that would cut down their aging.

Aggh, I think that's it for now! Too long of a post!

Adios, gang! :)

Niamhgold - [niamhgold@hotmail...bah, you know it! :)]
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 03:38:56 PM
IP: lac-flex122.ncia.net

About the Mic...well the computer only has on head phones jack,and the headeset has two plugs, If it helps the modle is a KOSS

Bronx Holy Sh**! I'm another horse lover,even when one kicked me I still love them. I was the little girl who prefered My Little Ponies over Barbie dolls.. I don't understand how anyone can hurt a horse. It is revered as a noble creature by nearly every culuture on the planet. This person is either
A. a sick person who likes to kill animals
B. A Pyrophile, who can't really help himself
C.Some moron punk kid
D. Someone who had too much, liquore and/or drugs
E.All of the above.
A decent punishment... at the very least should have him paing for a fine and damgaes to your friend(although money can't replace the creatures that she loves) 20 years in jail with back breaking labor, and psychiatry help.

Emammbu and Sevarius Jr.>>> Bladerunner. I have only recently seen the movie...wich is why the Eyrie pyramid reminds me of that one in the movie. I have also read the novel the movie was based on and Deckard is not an Android in the novel. I wouldnt have known if he was in the movie or not..it didnt pull a Sixth Sense on me.

Todd>>>Good points on why Hank didnt kill Venger, the same with Awakenings

Anime Question. Except for Gundam, Ronin and Slayers all the Anime I have seen has some cute little critter helping out the hero and providing comic relief..Even Voltron had those mice. Pokemon,Digimon,Monster Rancher has too many creatures to list but here are the others
Flint...those wierd lil critters
Sailormoon...the cats
DBZ...OOlong,Puar,Bubbles,Gregory
Tenchi...Ryo ohke
Card Captors...Kero
Wedding Bell Peach...Jemapi
Magic Knight Rayearth...Mokona(love how Fuu adresses him as Sir Mokona '_~) please dont tell me this is another Disney influence.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 01:30:02 PM
IP: user-37kap0f.dialup.mindspring.com

RP WARNING!!
**Northern Ireland
The Orange Order waits to march through a Catholic zone in Portadown, as lightning flashes through the sky and as it clears five girls in Catholic school uniforms stand at the threshold of the Catholic neighborhood defiantly daring the Orange Order to go any further.

"Desist and leave, herectics. You will no longer terrorize the rightful citiznes of this fair isle. For three centuries you ahvd raped, bullied, and slaughtered the Catholcis of this land. Well, now that will end. We are the Catholic schoolgirl scouts and we shall bring peace to Nortehrn Ireland, one way or another."

The corwd shouts and jeers at the girls, while one of the marchers, Sinead O'Connor, move to the front with two other sleazy-looking men in their Nazi-like uniforms and decide to respond.
"We only wish to celebrate our victory over these papists at the Battle of The Boyne and to sing praises to Oliver Cromwell. Go back to Rome and tell your sexist opressor Pope to open the gates of the Vatican as we drop kick his followers from Ireland...."

Ave Maria, Brigitte, and Therese aim their rosaries at the three lead Ornage scum and fire green energy at them, leaving only skeletons in Orange Order uniforms.

"You may have nice outfits, but so did the Nazis. You can send all your insults cowards, but you shall not defeat the Catholic schoolgirl scouts."

At that moment, another man steps up to the lead with a more prominent uniform over his graying features, indicating a high ranking in the Orange Order.

"Paisley!!!" Brigitte spits out the word in anger.
"You scouts have interfered with Lord Cromwell's plans, long enough. It's time we settled this once for all. How about it, Brigitte? Just one on one, or are you just a green papist coward?"

"Very well, heathen. It will just be you, me, and my little green rosary."

Brigitte takes out her rosary and points it at Paisley, while Paisley sneers at the image of Mary on the rosary.**
TO BE CONTINUED!!!!

What will happn to Paisley? Find out in my next post.

Well, the Orange Order is causing trouble in Northern Ireland again. They want to march through Drumcree, a Catholci neighborhood in Portadown, but Tony Blair is setting up a barrier to block the hate group from entering, which I think very admirable of Blair. In the US, Neo Nazis won teh right to march through Skokie, a predominately Jewish suburb of Chicago, but were never stupid enough to do it, but in the UK, the Orange Order (a group quite simialr to Neo Nazis in many ways) is not given the right to march through Drumcree, but it still tries though they will probably get themselves killed, and I think teh world would better off if that whole Order died, but it would not help the peace process there. It would be so much easier if all the Orange hardliners would just leave Ireland and never return. I hope I don't offend anyone by this, but the Ornage Order are part of eight centuries of attrocities committed against the Irish, and most Protestants and Catholcis are willing to work together, but these fanatics just want to cause mroe trouble and spread theri hate, and unlike the IRA, the media never discusses the Orange Order and their reign of hatred until 1998. All you heard on TV and movies was the IRA, but never the Orange hate groups.

Now on to a personal update. I saw my father this weekend, and things went unbelievably well. We had dinner and brought each other up to date. He thinks my decison to enter the military si excellent and he opposed a simialr thought years ago, because he wanted me to go to College, first. He was evry happy to see me, and I'll probably see him this weekend, too. I also began to realize much of my begative feelings towards him were more the result of my mother's propaganda. I don't really have many bad memories of him an dmost of it was implanted by my mother.

I also saw The Patriot Saturday.

SPOLIERS for The Patriot!!!!
**First of all, Mel Gibson is excellent at killing the Englsih. While this has a simialr theme to Braveheart, it is not an update of the movie as soem may suspect. Benjamin Martin and William Wallace are not the same chaarcters. Wallace was real. Martin was fictional. Wallace was pushed to heroism because his wife was killed. Martin joins the War, because Col. Tavington shot his 15 year old son. Wallace was a vital part of Scottish independence, while Martin was merely a Militia leader and was not instrumental in winning the Revolution. Still, the movie was excellent and deserves many Oscars.

The main reason it was probably rated R though it only deserved a PG-13 rating was because Martin and his two middle children take rifles and act as snipers taking out the British soldiers carrying Gabriel Martin to be hung.

Colonel Tavington is the main villain and the nemesis of Benjamin Martin. Tavington is exceptionally cruel as he locks an entire town in a Church and sets the Church on fire. Some have compared this to Waco, but I see it as Tavington being some sort of Enlightenment educated soldier who sees no problem killing civillians in their church and killing a minister on the field. Tavington also kills two of Benjamin Martin's children and has Martin's plantation set ablaze, but he is eventually killed by Martin, which was very satisfying to watch that butcher taken out.

It also shows Martin's predjudice towards the French (as he was a Captain in the French and Indian War) and his comments about the French are more typical of modern America's attitude towards them. By the end of the movie, Martin and the French Officer who assists the militia men become good friends and when the French ships arrive, Martin says, "Viva La France", followd by the frenchman saying, "Viva L'Americans".**
END PATRIOT SPOILERS!!!!

Cyborg> I guess my long-windedness and fondness for three-piece suits and bowties makes me a non-comformist, though usually most non-comformists are not as conservative.

<<Carefull, you might turn a girl's head with talk like that ;)>> With your father watching, I shouldn't flirt with you too much, but wait until you see me in a suit :)

As for activity and orientation, they are not the same. I am a heterosexual, but I am not sexually active (in fact, I'm a virgin and almost 23). There are also different types of sexual activity. No one, except for hardliners like Falwell would object to two men or two women spending a monogamous life-long raltionship akin to marriage, but most of us would object to something like the bath houses that existed in San Francisco twenty years ago and what went on in there. To me, that is why I can't really define sexuality as a lifestyle, because lifestyle is something completely different than orientation.

Christine> You're reputation is safe with me. I read Scobby Doo a few days ago :)

Rolling Calf> Welcoem to the CR. I neevr thought your nation would be that homophobic. I guess I'm so used to that laid-back craefree atmosphere the movies show about Jamaica.

Jessie Feff> But kittens are so cute when they're psycho.

Curly++> Well, you and Cyborg are the first parent/child pair in this room until Becca starts posting in a few years. I do admit I'd be very shocked if my mother read the room let alone posted here, but she's 55 and I imagine you're younger. As for baby pictures, I'm curious to see what Cyborg looks like now, but it wouldn't be nice to emberass her by displaying her baby pictures.

As for dead relative's name, everyone in my family has a first name after a dead relative. My mother discovered this by finding a death certificate for a Mary Elziabeth Worthington who died in 1945. My mother was born in 1945 so this creeped her out, even though this was her father's mother. My father was named William Bradish Forsyth after his great uncle. I was named after my great great grandfather, Gen. Thomas Muldrup Logan. Also in much of my family the middle name is a last name, like my two middle names being Mudrup (my Danish bllod) and Logan and my sister's middle name of Worthington. I guess my family is more known for the Old World practice :)

Xena Trek ::passioned kisses:: Let me knwo how I cna help with the funding, dear. I also got yoru e-mail.

Graymonk> You have? I didn't know that.

Mecord> Somehow I don't see many homosexuals in Logan Valley, or in Utah generally. The again, I imagine almost everyone in Utah is Mormon and of German or English descent.

Spacebabie> <<Tenchi They didnt gloss over the fact that that one princess wanted to marry her half brother?! why is it ok to show incest but not homosexuality on cartoons? >> Well, Cartoon Network is based out of Atlanta, and I suspect incest is more acceptable in Georgia than homosexuality :)

AirWalker> IMO, you have some interesting ideas for TGS. I sugegst you offer to be a writer for them. They need them and you could have some say over what you want done in TGS. Maybe I should volunteer too.

Kiatinia> Well, the GOP is more openminded than the Democrats, though that doesn't say much. I give them credit for allowing views that aren't in synch with their platform, like having a Keynote Speaker in 96 who was pro-choice, while no pro-life Democrat was given a prime-tiem speaking role. Pat Buchanan's departure will ultimately be good for the Republcians, while the Democarts will still be bogged down by the likes of Paul Wellstone and Jesse Jackson, plus Al Gore won't be able to sweet talk everyone liek Clinton. If Gore wins 2000, he'll be a one-term blunder at best.

Shadowrider> I'd prefer a different location than Rome for 2000, because I think Battaglia wanted it just because of the Jubilee going on at the same time. London and Paris are more modern and cosmopolitan cities than Rome, plus less controversial. So are New York and Los Angeles. I'd include San Francisco, but that may appear to be as snide a joke as suggesting Athens. New Orleans would also be good, because there are many homosexuals here (probably a higher percentage than San Francisco, which only has the Castro district), and the party atmospehere would settle the militants and make them lighten up, plus New Orleans could use the tourism dollars it would generate.

I'm also surprised that we agree that mush on any topic involving the Vatican :)

Doug> It's funny you shoudl mentione Ellen. She and Harry Connick Jr. are the two most famous people to flunk out of my College :)

Niamhgold> <<(derned Scottish blood!) >> Well, I have dark hair, but blue eyes. Besides, you should look proudly at you "derned" Scottish blood :p

Now, I'm curious to see what you look like too.

Demona's Redemption> I don't see that at all. At the end, she ahs undoubtedly conflicting feelings and I imagine her vacation will be to find hersef an deal with how she ahs been allied with humans against a greater enemy. All her good deeds was against a common foe, Madoc, but with Madoc dead, Demona now needs time to reflect, especially about saving Elisa. Perhaps Demona spared her, because she wanted Elisa to die by her hand, not by witchbolt.

Bronx> I may not be able to relate to your feelings about horses having grown up in New Orleans and neevr spending much time with them, but I wish I could do moe to help you in this sad hour. I wish I lived closer so you could come over and I oculd hold you. Well, how about I hold you while you're in the CR at least ::hugs and kisses::

SOROW> I was wondering where you were. I'm waiting for an e-mail :)

Sevarius Jr.>

Actually, I do see a justification for executing the fire bugs. The horses are the property of Bronx's farmer friend. 31 horses should be worth a lot on the market as well as the barn that was burned.

120 years ago, stealing a horse got you hung. Stealing a horse was bad enough, but burning 21 alive is much worse than an act of horse stealing. I don't think they shoudl be burned, but locked in a giant birdcage in the barn's ruins and slowly starved to death, or they should be liquidated to cover the costs of their damage. Firs, everything they own should be sold to pay the damage, and if that's not enough, harvest their organs until the damage is paid for. In the United States, we are too merciful to criminals who cause destruction to personal property. Before I had a dog, little guttersnipes would jump the fence and swim in my pool. They may not have caused any fdamage or hurt anyone, but they were a menace and made the whole family feel liek prisoners. I wanted to take those kids (and yes these were children) and hang them all in the backyard as a warning to other kids who would dare to use my pool illegaly.

Am I cruel? Yes. Am I a little sadistic? Yes. But frankly, these kind fo people who have no repsect for property or for a defenseless animals are anathema to humanity and they do need to be made an example of. Stealing a horse used to be a hanging offense, and I think killing is worse than stealing, so while I don't support eye for an eye, I do advocate a harsh, draconian punishment for the arson.

Wilek> I never lashed out at Nathans, but my cat did :)

Ed> I hope you stay around longer and I agree that Pendragon is great. Did you ever hear the rumors that Churchill was King Arthur?

Katara> And a Welcome back to you too as well.

Raven> Welcome. I hope you stay awhile.

Now, I'm off, and when next I post, Paisley's fate shall be drawn :)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 01:20:45 PM
IP: proxy1-external.elmwd1.la.home.com

Well there are a few things running around that I'd like to comment on while they are the hot topics.

TGS and Bad Guys- THis is something I've had on my mind since I finished season two of the main series. It seemed to me that they were doing pretty well when it comes to enemies.In other words they don't have a lot of them left. By the end of season one of the show they had Demona, Macbeth, Xanatos, Dracon, and of course people in general.
Again these are my obsevation skills I'm talking about (hehe)but as far as I can tell when the third season of TGS starts the enemies the crew are going to face are Unseelie rouges, The Illuminate, and of course people in general.
Maybe I missed someone and I'll be surprised, better yet I hope I'm surprised.

Then there's Demona I'd just have to say that her redeption would have to be a rocky one. Slip in to remission of "I'll kill you all!" every now and then.
That's my say so. I hope I didn't sound unapreciative, because this whole site and fandom kicks a$$!
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
the bayou city, tx
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:57:59 PM
IP: spider-tn033.proxy.aol.com

*Emambu walk in stretching. Had a nice six hours sleep and now it's time to face the new day*

Raven: Welcome to the CR. I hope you enjoy your stay

Katara: A belated welcome, and an even more belated happy birthday.

Zath: See, my point continues to be proven. Now all I need to do is buy a mask and go find an opera house nearby, and I'll bet set. :)

TGS: Although I do think that the Demona debate is a good one, I don't think that I can offer anything new and insightful to it. Everything I know about Demona, as both a gargoyle and a villain, through the TV series and the stories here has already been said, so I'm going to leave it alone for now. Instead, I'll offer my own thoughts on what I'd like to see in TGS.

Now, I know that before I joined this CR, there was a quick discussion on Xanatos' character and what could happen to him in season 3. A few said that they would like to see him back up to his old tricks, delving in shady deals, and possibly even turning against the Gargoyles once again. While I agree that I would like to see Xanatos a little more involved in season 3, I don't think that it should be a complete regression to what he was during the first season of the TV series.

One of the reasons why I always liked Xanatos was that he never struck me as evil, depsite the fact that he was an opponet in the show. Everything he did had a much more Machiavellian style to it. To him it was business. I don't belive that he ever really hated the Manhatten Clan. In fact during the episode "The Edge" he almost appears to have a grudging respect for Goliath.

Also, keep in mind that much has happened to Xanatos. he's now a family man, more importantly he is a father. Perhaps for the first time, there is something in his life that takes precedent to his own goals. I absolutely believe that he loves his son like any other father. Otherwise he wouldn't taken all of the steps to ensure his son's safety in "The Gathering (both parts)." What might be interesting to see in season 3 is Xanatos having to choose between the Manhatten clan and his son. That would be the only time that I think he would betray the gargoyles (well, he'd probably do it too if it were Fox instead of Alex).

However, despite his ruthlessness in the past, I don't think that he would betray the gargoyles without a very, very good reason (like I mentioned above). I think he understands what it means to be in someone's debt. The gargoyles saved his son in "The Gathering." He in turn helped them out in "Hunter's Moon." The gargoyles then attempted to clear his name in "Things fall apart (both parts)." Xanatos saved Goliath in "Odd Couples," and Goliath then returned the gesture later in the story. During "The Darkest Hour (both parts)" the Manhatten clan and Xanatos fought side by side to defend the Eyrie building and stop Madoc. Lastly, we see more of Xanatos' good side in "Seeds of Change." Too much has happened for Xanatos to betray the gargoyles. In "Odd Couples" there's one line that reads, "...their feud was over."

Does this mean that Xanatos is the exact opposite of what he used to be: no. I'd still like to see him making his deals. After all, you can't completely silence the businessman in him. However, he does have a responsibility now to both his wife and his son. I think he's smart enough to know that, and realize that he cannot be as recklass as he used to be. That's just my two cents though.


---Emambu


Emambu - [ErikMambu@aol.com]
Philadelphia, PA, USA
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:57:49 PM
IP: spider-we023.proxy.aol.com

****Sparks fly and a hole opens in one wall. Kyryn steps through.****

Fanfic> True, fanfic is written primarily for the enjoyment of the author. TGS is a little different because a) it is a collaboration, and b) the authors ARE concerned with keeping their "audience." Believe it or not, that feedback does make a difference.

I note that many people are saying that no one is going to agree with everything that a writer does. Funny, this is just as true for any professional produced media. Many people do not like elements of a particular book or movie. *grin* In fact, that is why some fanfic comes about. A fic writer does not like what has been done with a particular character or series and decides to write his/her own version of things. However, there is one major difference between professionally produced work and fanfic. The people putting out the professionally produced work are deliberately trying to make a profit. These folks will produce primarily what they think is going to sell and put bread on the table. I know a number of writers who would like to go off in different directions (or have tried and failed) because the fans only want more of their favorite characters. The author continues writing what will sell (or what the publisher thinks will sell) and then the fans complain when quality goes downhill because the well has run dry for the author in trying to write about the same characters. I'd bet right now that if the author of the "Harry Potter" books pitched a new idea to the publisher, they might say, "Well, it's nice, but what we really need is another Potter book." Anyway, TGS seems like a little bit more because its aim is a little bit different. At least, that's my perception.

Bronx> *hugs* I'm so sorry to hear about the horses. My personal punishment for someone like that would be to have them build a new barn (to understand what goes into something that burns so quickly) and spend a horse's lifetime (20-30 years) mucking out stalls every day.

****Kyryn frowns and brings two dangling wires together. There is a blinding flash and she disappears****
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:00:54 AM
IP: 216.35.46.129

It's been a while since I posted here but this subjet of Demona's redemption interests me so I thought I would. I think one of the key things about Demona's consistent betrayal of the clan and actions against humanity is that often the anger and hatred would often be mixed with other emotions. The first time would be curiosity about what really happened to her and how did she really survive if what she and Xanatos told them was a lie. In Re-awakenings pity if she considered living for the sake of living worthwhile. In the Mirror they weren't present to hear her orders to Puck so they didn't know what she wanted. Sure she hates humans but she's used a mind control spell in the past. Slap it on all the transformed people and raise any hatchlings they have under her views and she's got an instantly repopulated race. When Fox and Xanatos got married Goliath's experience with modern Demona was tempered by dealing with the young Demona. She was under a spell in High Noon. In Reckoning she partially redeemed herself by saving them.

Having to deal with the Hunters and then the Quarrymen partially taught them what she had to deal with. In addition there is always a desire to bring a lost family member back.

Broadway and Lex would be easy to win over. They never had a personal grudge against Demona, all their dealings with her were as the whole clan. When Brooklyn, who claims to remember little of his time trips, became willing to accept her they probably would be to. Broadway obviously would be because of Angela as well. And Demona killed Madoc who Lex hates.

Plus their encounter with Demona 2 from that alternate universe.
******

I osted a few ideas here in the past and here's something that I've been thinking of and not sure I posted before. How fast do you thionk Sevarious could really whip up a cure for the mutates. Remember Xanatos always has backup plans and goals and Sevarious was shooting at him. There's no guarentee that Derek would make it in time. His shoelaces could have been untied and he tripped. He could've been a little sick and his reflexes not at peak because of it. Instead of getting in the way he could've tackled him a been in such a position that Xanatos would've taken it in the back. So what would he've done if that happened?

Also I'm planning on postin some RR's at the link below and wanted to know what people thought of these four ideas.

Diane Maza was lifted to her feet by a large aquamarine hand. "Are you all right, Mrs. Maza?"

"I'm fine Broadway. Does anyone know what happened?"

"Someone threw some sort of gas grenade into the Labyrinth. Elisa, Talon, Delilah, Beth and your husband are all missing," Goliath told her. His voice was laced with both anger, sadness, and worry. "We will find them."
******

"Don't bother struggling. I made sure you wouldn't be able to slip out of your bonds, Detective. Talon's electrical blasts are connected to the building so all he will do is give me a few seconds of free power and Delilah's chains are strong enough to hold Goliath."

"What do you want with us Demona?"

"By hacking into Xanatos' systems I learned about your little adventure in Arizona. I know that Peter Maza is connected to Coyote. Through him all his descendents are as well. I need as much familial blood as possible to draw him here through you. When he is here I can steal his power for my own with a new spell I acquired and a vessel for his magic."

She clutched a small shard of glass from Titania's Mirror and began chanting in Latin.



Italy, 16--

Demona attempted to shield the spell book from damage by her attackers arrows. She hadn't battle in the air in centuries, and it had never been against a human with weapons. Still if she could just circle around, then the Hunter's machine should be far easier to damage than a gargoyles wings.

She didn't get the chance. Her enemy fired a net that tangled her wings and sent her tumbling into the rivers below. He wasted no time in following her down, not paying attention to the fog that was starting to roll in.

"Now Demon, my family's long hunt is over and you and your evil kind will be totally destroyed."

"Release the lass, now and go about ye're business. lad, else I'll be forced tae severely harm ye."

Hunter turned and saw that a skiff was floating out of the mists, wearing armor that seemed to be based on a gargoyle.

"Who are you!?"

"I am the Guardian of the Gargoyles, and I suggest ye take my warning. Release her. Now."

The Hunter had stopped listening with the name and drew his sword. Someone would protect these demonic creatures, it was unthinakable.

He charged through the knee deep water only to have his thrust parried. His every blow was meant as a killing strike and Tom parried everyone until he had no choice but to thrust his own sword through the Hunter's unprotected stomach.

He let his foe fall then turned his attention to the gargoyle who had just been able to claw through the thick mesh.

"My god," he whispered as he approached. "Ye can nae be here. Ye died centuries ago."

Demona, nearly dropped the book when she saw the human in his armor. His facemask was clearly modelled after Goliath's face. "Who are you and why did you help me?" she demanded.



The Xanatos family was sitting down to dinner when Owen entered with a slightly upset expression on his face. With Owen' that meant thew world was most likely going in to end in five minutes.

"What's wrong?"

"I'm afraid I have some upsetting news, Mr. Xanatos. Oberon has apparently decided that since everyone has reported to the Gathering he can now allow them some time in the mortal world if they wish it. And unfortunately my cousins have decided to visit me."

"Your cousins?" Fox asked. "Who exactly are they?"

"My, or rather, Puck's fellow tricksters Coyote, Raven and Anansi. Fortunatly Coyote was nice enough to warn me of there upcoming visit."

"That's good of him. How long will they be, a night?"

"A week, sir. Avalonic time."

"What?! That's nearly six months!"

"Yes, Fox, I'm afraid that's true. The three of them should be arriving shortly."



"I had best place this out of sight," Owen thought to himself as he picked up the Eye of Odin. "It would not do for someone to come in here and discover more stolen property in Mr. Xanatos' home." By now his employer had taken the new Steel Clan robots out with his battle armor and was confronting the gargoyles.

Once he walked past a tapestry it moved and opened to reveal a secret passage. Demona stepped out and shot him in the back with a laser.

"A shame for you that you are not as difficult to harm as your other form." She picked up the gem. "It's seems Xanatos you consistently prove yourself just like all . Untrustworthy, keeping secrets from me. He probably didn't think I watched the news. The legendary Eye of Odin. Think what I can do with that sort of power."




Also I'm going to be posting some RR's and I just
Jason Barnett - [barnett@shentel.net]
Lebanon Church, VA, USA
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 10:08:57 AM
IP: ha15s152.d.shentel.net

SEVARIUS JR. - I've sometimes speculated myself about the possibility that gargoyles are a dying race in the long run from the "natural species life-span" perspective, particularly because of their naturally low birth-rate (only one child every twenty years), but it was too unsettling. In particular, it gives a certain sense of futility about their quest to make peace with the human race. What will be the use of their finally convincing humans that they're not evil monsters so that the humans let them live in peace and stop trying to hunt them down and kill them Quarryman-style if they're doomed to extinction soon anyway? Far too depressing.

Re the bit about being no better than the villain: I can't answer for all of the examples given here, but I can for the examples in "The Dragons' Graveyard" and "Awakening Part Five". The children's quest to kill Venger was not based on his being a dangerous tyrant who was seeking to conquer the world. It was based on personal revenge (he kept on destroying their opportunities to get home). Likewise, Goliath's desire to drop Xanatos over the edge of the castle was based on revenge (he'd just seen Demona fall seemingly to her doom, and even though he knew that she was a traitor, he still had feelings for her and was grieved at her apparent loss). The motivation in both cases was revenge, not concern for protecting the innocent from the villain. And revenge was a motivation for both Venger and Demona, so the protagonists's motives would have been dangerously close to that of those selfsame villains.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 07:29:41 AM
IP: 216.87.46.127.dialup-stl.primary.net

*Warpmind enters, dragging a huge, covered statue after him. A corner of the cover catches onto something, and an 8-foot stone carving of Great Cthulhu is revealed. DC immediately goes insane, and lies babbling in a corner.*
Well, what else was there to expect? The rest of us have already had our collective sanities removed, so we couldn't lose any...

Demona's Reform: In TGS, as I percieve it, Demona's not reformed; she's got a long way until she's truly there. Now, in Timedancer (I've forgotten the name of the episode), it appeared that she hadn't really come full circle before one male proposed to her. The episode was the one where Demona buried her mate. Anyone recall the title, I'd appreciate it, but there's no real need as long as people know which ep I refer to. Now, in *my* ficverse, Demona just might have gotten a bit further on her reform, but that is mainly due to Thailog's sacrifice; she knew how he was initially, and when someone as twisted as he could die in the defense of others... let's just say it was a massive shock, eh? :)

*Sets a small white candle next to Bronx'.* Alas, thirty-one lives lost to arson... 'Tis a grim world we live in... Perhaps an appropriate punishment for such villains would be... DA DUM... The Box? A small, metal box with only a few holes through which to breathe, set out in the baking sun all day... an eye for an eye, and maybe these scumbags could learn something, too?

Curly++: Undoubtedly an imposter... I've been using this handle for, oh, a VERY long time now, and I've never entered any newsgroups... But maybe I'll look it up, see what I think of it? (Still, of all the Roguelike games, ADOM is my favorite; I doubt it will be anywhere near easy to beat its complexity combined with its low hardware demands...)

Wilek: But, if vidscanners were placed at every corner, would not their FOVs be occasionally obscured due to the randomness of the reconstructions? As for my drawing skills, well, your talent is undoubtedly greater than mine; though, I've got some small skill for technical drawings, such as floor plans et al. Muchly due to my exploits in Doom2 WAD construction. :) About Kruger, no, he's not from Ohio. He's from Bayern, actually. And his first name is Hans, not Freddie, whose last name was Krueger, not Kruger. ;) And yes, I got your reply - but PLEASE, Wilek, send to my usa.net address, and not my old, dysfunctional, moody xoommail.com address - it's swallowed an unknown number of e-mails!

Zath: You're sick of being called sinister before you give people reason to do so? Out of sheer, morbid curiosity, how long does it usually take before they have such a reason? ;) As for Geocities problems, dude, I quit Geoshitties ages ago, and went to Xoom instead.

Gargoyle lifespans: As I understand it, gargoyles age at the same rate as humans do, and probably with the same lifespan EXCEPT that gargoyles do not age while in stone sleep, thus on average doubling their life span. In fact, it is not entirely impossible that the stone sleep, being rejuvenating, can give them an extra decade or two, even...

Oh, well, gotta run... *Pats the Cthulhu statue and zips out.*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 07:26:36 AM
IP: mp-217-237-81.daxnet.no

Gargoyle and human lifespans > The sleep time is counted for humans because the human body is still biologically active - and therefore aging - even when the mind is in a state of rest. Gargoyles, on the other hand, enter a state of biological stasis every morning - a form of hyper hybernation where metabolic processes all but cease.

Just 24 days remain until The Gathering. I'm told the hotel is completely booked up now for Saturday and Sunday, so if you don't have a place to stay yet, better find a friend who reserved his or her room early!
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 06:44:38 AM
IP: ac9cc0af.ipt.aol.com

Gargoyle life spans> I always felt that the whole "gargoyles age half as fast as humans" thing was just a really rough approximation. It seems very unlikely that the average gargoyle lives exactly twice as long as the average human and that two such wildly different species would mature at rates that are perfectly proportional to each other. Goliath probably just said half as fast as humans because it was easier than going into all the complicated differences. Also, he grew up in time when humans had a much shorter life span, so maybe he thinks living twice as long as a human means reaching 120 or 130 if he's lucky, not 200.

Niamhgold> <<Hallucinating a dead kitten>> It sounds really creepy when you put it like that... <<we're the mutable Air sign, meaning we tend to scatter our energies in every direction>> Do you have any idea why Aquarius, the water-bearer, is also an air sign? It never made sense to me.

Coyote> <<Expressions on oncoming motorists' face when the black monster approaches: priceless>> **LOL**

Cyborg> <<*reads that unenthusiastically* You mean I'm the first (or only) to do something... again?>> I guess you're just a trend setter : )

Emambu> <<"Erik" isn't that uncommon a name (example: Erik the Red).>> The Phantom of the Opera was named Erik.

Curly++> <<It's one of the major reasons Corel is currently in financial trouble, they wasted a year trying to convert Word Perfect to java, failed, and now they're a year behind their marketing>> It's such a shame that Corel is having such financial trouble. I love their Photo-paint program. Hopefully the company won't die before they release version 10.

Spacebabie> <<does anyone know how to install a computer microphone...a hands free one cause I sure don't>> Isn't there just a plug in the back of the back of the computer, or is a hands free microphone more complicated to set up than a normal one?

Rodlox> <<like the Mayans, end up with deities like Coatlicue, who got pregnant by a feather, and all her first batch of kids tried to kill her, only for 'Left-Handed Hummingbird' to surge forth from his mother's womb and slay them - leaving them in the sky as stars>> Finally, a positive portrayal of a lefty! I'm sick of being called "sinister" before I even give people good cause to do so.

Airwalker> <<most of the Manhattan Clan that made it down to the 20th century was made up of youngsters - I don't think it really started to sink in by the time of the Massacure that they might live short lives. What young person dwells on such a thing? (And besides that don't forget that the Trio were still young enough that even with a violent 10th century lifestyle they still had long lives ahead of them. [*snip*] So really only Hudson and Goliath should really be shaped by the "I'm might die anytime due to violence" mentality.>> I think that since they had been exposed to violence and death their entire lives, they wouldn't look at it exactly the way people do in modern times. If they were constantly surrounded by it they would probably just see death as another fact of life that one must accept. They wouldn't like it, but losing someone in the prime of life wouldn't come as the shock that it does today. Also, I estimate that the trio were in their early thirties (roughly equivalent to human teens) when the massacre occurred, so they would have plenty of time to see what could happen to them. Even if they didn't, I think the massacre itself would be enough to make them painfully aware of their own delicate mortality. <<Will Asrial to use a TGS example mate with someone she has no feelings for just to have a child when the 20 year mark rolls around? Will Caspian and Rosalind to use another example consumate a relationship if the 20 year mark rolls around but they aren't ready yet? The thing to keep in mind is just because biology says yes doesn't mean the individual has to>> On the other hand, gargoyles might not view sex the same way humans do, so a gargoyle might be perfectly willing to have a child for the good of the clan but refuse to form a permanent pair-bond with his/her partner in the deed if they do not care for them or are not ready for the commitment. It depends on what they were raised to believe.

Christine> <<Which will be the deciding factor for Puck, the lure of big blue eyes or the threat of a big armored fist?>> I guess it depends on who the big blue eyes belong to and whether the armor on the big fist is made of an iron based metal or not. : )

Wilek> << I think that was the original concept for Beast Machines... >> It was, but they decided they would rather put in the extra time/effort/money to make it CGI so they wouldn’t have to put up with the obnoxious screechy crinkling sound all the tinfoil would make when they wrapped it around the socks to get the shiny robot look… <<it stars the ever-annoying Leonardo DiCaprio...>> At least you get to see him freeze to death and then sink to the bottom of the ocean at the end. >: )

Random Gripe> (I’ll kill Mr. Disconnect for this later, but right not I just don’t have the enthusiasm to do it well) For several hours earlier today Geocities must have been having some sort of brainfart because clicking on a link that would lead to my website would instead take me to completely different places, alternately some antiques page and a porn site. How #*@$&! messed up is that? I accessed my account and none of my files had been changed, so the problem must have been with geocities’s "shortcut" feature where you access a page using a person’s username in the URL instead of the neighborhood/number. Has anyone else ever had a problem even remotely similar to that, or am I the only one in the CR who hasn’t given up on geocities and found a better place to host my site?

Zath - [zath@rocketmail.com]
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 04:56:41 AM
IP: ns2-13.viptx.net

Had an interesting dream this morning: A limo containing Arthur and a team of Romulan Tal'Shiar operatives was being pursued by a brainwashed Gorgonite...there's a fic in here somewhere; I know there is...

Gside> <<Exhibit #04: Drunken Monkey Kung Fu.>> Um... O_o <<what do you think cremaic people did, fiber optics?>> Space shuttle hulls, actually...<<I have seen hardly any of the Flying Circus.>> You're better off than I am; I've seen none at all. ;) About the only Monty Python I've been exposed to is a calendar that kind of frightened me...

Zath> <<Or a robotic Richard Simmons?>> <MUHAHAHA> <<It's been my experience that the hallucinations start after about 30+ hours without sleep (but occasionally sooner). It's strange but they always start with exactly the same thing, visions of a cat I had that died back when I was in 7th or 8th grade. I'll glimpse it out of the corner of my eye, just walking around randomly. This'll happen a couple of times and then my brain moves on to spewing out more interesting things, but it always starts with that one cat.>> Hm...people in certain altered states of mind often have perceptual access to non-standard energy states; it's possible that this isn't quite a hallucination...

Warpmind> <<Now, as much as I like your clocktower idea, I deem it a bit difficult to implement, especially if we are going to have total visual coverage of the whole place...>> A hidden vidscanner at every corner would probably take care of it. :) <<besides, I figure we'd need at least four or five sub-basements. ]:) >> Then we can extend the effect to all of them. >:) <<As soon as I get access to a scanner, I'll send you the sketches I made for the lowest sub-basement, 'kay? :)>> Thanks. ^_^ (Hm...I never knew you could draw... :D ) <<but the way Kruger's stuck to the analysis machine is amazing; I'll be VERY interested in seeing his final report. ;)>> I'm almost afraid to ask, but is he from Ohio? <<Ever seen the movie "Toys" with Robin Williams? I saw it last night... and it gave me some nifty ideas for the Mansion. ];)>> Saw it a long time ago, 'fraid I don't remember anything about it. :/ <<Oh, and is here anyone present who manages to e-mail Wilek, without getting the e-mail in return, with some "subsystem unavailable" error message or anything? 'Cause I've got something to send him, and it just won't reach him. :(>> My e-mail is acting up *again*?! >:/ Did you at least get my reply? [Wilek considers sending a nasty e-mail to his ISP. Then he considers sending a nasty paranuclear weapon to his ISP.]

GXB> <<I want to see killer bunny rabbits in this season of "Pendragon", and instead of illustrating the scenes with art, we should photograph sock puppets that are made to look like the characters ;)>> I think that was the original concept for Beast Machines...

Green Baron> <<I thought you might also go after Paul Nathans.>> Boy was I tempted...<<Didn't Miriam beat the hell out of Crackers?>> Um...possibly; it's been so long that I've forgotten what exactly happened to Crackers...I think Kit's psychotic clone cooked him and ate him or something?

Jackal> <<I got al dog tag made today that says, "I am your sex puppy">> That's...kinda cute, in a twisted way... ;P <<I'm talkin about feeling a life grow inside me.>> Where'd I leave my xenomorph eggs. ;P j/k

Cyborg> <<If you want purity tests, just clicky my name link and wow, will you ever find purity tests!>> Heh...I got 90-100% on most of them...<ego inflates> <<Next thing you know, he is going to bring out the embarasing baby pictures.>> If he does that, you'll be within your rights to murder him. ;) (Seriously, a friend of mine went to a high school where, one year at the graduation, they showed a slideshow of the graduates' baby pictures. He didn't look at them, he respected them too much for that...in fact, I think he was a member of the graduating class that year, but he threatened the staff or something so they didn't show his pictures...I've talked him into thinking about posting; I'm sure he'll have interesting stories...)

Ed> Welcome back! ^_^

Rodlox> <<speaking of which, what about those fish that start life female, then become male when they hit Middle-Aged?>> In those species, there's not much difference between male and female in the first place--the fish reproductive assembly isn't quite as majestic as the humanoid equivalent; changing genders amounts to switching vents on a sort of universal cell generator...<<Bonobo {aka, the Pygmy Chimp} seems to be a female-oriented society which replaces most combats with sex - male/male, male/female, female/female.>> Their version of Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 must be something else.

Lady Mystic> <<I will also post a list of the cut images. I will accept emails for as yet an undetermined length of time concerning appeals on cut images.>> Will they still be available for viewing, even if they won't be usable in the CR? Seems a shame for them to go to waste. ;)

Niamhgold> <<That big, giant marshmallow creature on my windowsill blinks its eight eyes when I'm working, and I'll be chuckling all night.>> So that's where my chief engineer got off to.

Mary Flanders> <<I was downtown at Borders with my parents looking through the Wicca and Magick books they had, when a grad student tried to pick me up! O.o Luckily my dad was just around the corner and scared him off when the guy asked me what I was planning to do for the 4th of July. ^_^ Then today when I was walking around downtown again, our town's local homeless guy (an disgusting old man with a long beard. >:P) asked me if I had change. I said no, then he tried to tell me where to meet him at 5 o'clock after he got off of work! (I know this guy had to be either homeless, crazy, perverted, or most likely all of the above.)>> What the...?! <grr> Maybe you should start carrying mace...

SJ> <<the movie Titanic. I HATE THAT MOVIE. Hate it with a passion. Of course, I've never SEEN it. Ever. And I never will.>> I've seen some of it, and I hate it too. ;) Partly becaused they focused upon some moronic romantic subplot, and partly because it stars the ever-annoying Leonardo DiCaprio...<<our hyper-active reproductive systems, which dwarf those of the gargoyles.>> Female gargoyles, at least. :) <<Sorry if some of you take offense to this, but I just found it offensive to suggest killing another human being, no matter how despicable they are, just because they slaughtered a defenseless animal. That's a sick crime, but come on--calling for the criminal's death? That's just ridiculous overkill.>> The way I see it, sooner or later, someone who kills animals for kicks will soon start killing humans for kicks...

Katara> Welcome back, and happy belated birthday! ^_^

Curly++> <<Not a pleasant thing to see. It's either meaningless for most dialup accounts or for permanent connections using M$-Windows it's an invitation for a security breach.>> Agreed; that's one reason I use Spaceproxy...I once had a message board in which only the administrator could see people's IP addresses; very handy...<<A 20 year fertility cycle on a 200 year life span screams to me that there would be no monogomous relationships and fertile females would be driven to mate with every available male so one of 'em do the job.>> Seen Christine's fics?

Doug> <<Your abuse experience I can empathize with more, I had one like it at a summer camp once. I've told you about it before, when I was thirteen I was sent to camp and thought it would be fun. Instead I had to endure a cabin full of snotheads and jerks for a month.>> Gods... :( No one should ever have to go through that...<<Ever since Goldeneye, it's been impossible for me to think about Famke Jansen in any way without shivering and grimacing a lot.>> Heh...glad I've never seen that movie; don't want to ruin my opinion of one of my favorite films (House On Haunted Hill). ;)

Archwolf> <<Chalk up one Furry>> You too? :) I am obsessed with anthropomorphics...Ever read Werewolf: The Apocalypse? Amazingly kewl stuff in there...

Christine> <<As for the recent ep with the Dragon's Graveyard, my main objection wasn't that they didn't kill Venger but that they trotted out that same old damn tired wheeze about how they wouldn't be any different from him if they did. Am I the only one to think that argument is total crap?>> Ugh...I once saw that one used on Wheeled Warriors...Saw Boss had physically degenerated somehow, and the heroes were in a position to blow his head off while he stood helpless in front of them...I've never understood the logic of that. Wouldn't ending the life of any evil threat to the well-being of society, however 'dishonorably', be a benefit to civilization?

Bronx> <<When I was younger.. I loved horses. Two other of my friends and myself practically grew up on this barn close to our town, and we worked and rode for the owners (who are the most wonderful people in the world.) I have so fond memories in that time.. I'm older now, and I've stopped riding for a number of years. But the memories have always been there.. and never forgot the horses. Tragety struck me today- the barn burned down. All 31 horses.. all 31 of my friends died. And do you know what they think the cause might be? Arson.>> OMG... <speechless> >:(

Winterwolf> <<What I would like to know is where that idea came from. Humans use only 10% of their brains. Was this a scientific study?>> It's a myth. Humans actually use virtually all their brains...I forget where I read this; I'll give more information if I ever find it again...
Wilek Nereus
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 03:59:18 AM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

*Emambu enters despite the fact that it is very late where he lives and he really should be getting some sleep :)*

Brooklyn: Thanks for the e-mail. Unfortunately, work has been killing me this week, but I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to post comments on your story by tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

Mary: remember, revenge is a dish best served cold.

Bronx: That's horrible! I extend my condolences for your loss. While I don't think that the people who did this should be hung and burned, I do hope that they are caught, and punished. Thinking about it just makes me sick, so I can't imagine what you must be going through. Again, you have my condolences.

SJ: Well, I'm a fan of "Blade Runner" so I can try and tell you why I like it. One of the great things I found about the movie was it's different take on reality. Take the themes of life and death for instance. Both play a large role in the film. Life represents an imposing world that is large, expansive, and yet strange even to the hero (Deckard). Death on the other hand is mor chaotic, disjointed, and moves at a much slower pace. Survival is another key theme. The replicants thirst for life and yet they aren't truly human. One of the best lines of the movie is "Quite a thing to live in fear." That's exactly what the replicants must face everyday. They are grown, implanted with a fail-safe device that kills them in time, and then hunted when they desire to live freely. keep in mind, these guys are the supposed "bad guys" of the film.

This brings to my next point. This movie is a mix of traditional with untraditional. The good guys aren't really good, and the bad guys aren't really bad. The replicants are searching for answers for all the pain and suffering that they have endured. Sound familiar? Unlike most sci-fi films, technology has a darker side to it here. The city, despite being futuristic, looks dreary. rather than a showdown fight between good vs. evil, we have a hunt where the "good guy" is eventually saved by the "bad guy" (and he was going to die anyway).

There's the much darker question too: Is Deckard a replicant? Was he being used to simply track and kill the replicants? I always assumed he was but now it's good to see that I was right. It adds for a much darker ending, "It's too bad she won't live. But then again who does?"

There are other themes too that I have gotten into: The relationship between Racheal and Deckard, or all of the religious tones. When the replicants meet Tyrell, they are essentially meeting their maker. That'd be like any of us meeting God. This is a very powerful scene. I'm paraphrasing here but Tyrell says to Roy (one of the replicants) at one point, "A candle that burns twice as bright lives half as long and you Roy have burned so very, very brightly." Later in the scene, Roy kills Tyrell... he essentially kills his God because he realizes that he (Tyrell) doesn't have the answers. Again, this is a very powerful yet disturbing image.

As a whole, "Blade Runner" touches on many themes and draws on many parallels. There are several others things that went unaddressed but I think I'm just dragging on at this point. Remember, I'm not trying to get you to like the movie. It won't appeal to everyone. I'm merely stating (well, overstating at this point) why I like the movie, and why it has appealed to many others as well.

TGS: Hmmm... there is one thing I do want to see in Season 3 but it's very late, and I need to sleep. I'll post sometime in the afternoon about it.

Take care everyone,


---Emambu
Emambu - [ErikMambu@aol.com]
Philadelphia, PA, USA
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 03:55:00 AM
IP: spider-tj074.proxy.aol.com

I love a good minor key.

Jenna> No conformity test, just those of us who stick out in real life coming forward.

Niamhgold> <<I haven't been able to get onto the site since yesterday morning>>: If s8 is still up, you can access the CR. Just remember to add "tgs/" to the root directory.

Bronx> May you you be able to say good bye, and may those who caused such a tragedy be caught and dealt with justly.

Welcome back SOROW.

CtB> Wilburys: Correct. You've heard them before, haven't you? I never said there was a sixth, though Jim Horn did get sax credit. It is perfectly understandable about Jeff Lynne, I don't remember him half the time. And this is just suspicion on my part, but is your favorite song Dirty World? ("He loves your parts and service/He loves your service charge...")

Winterwolf> <<How can you prove the proportion of the brain that is used?>>: PET scan. Measure the oxygen being burnt in the brain.
<<Just because you blast something with cold doesn't guarantee that it will shatter>>: If you kill it with cold (or while it is still frozen), it will shatter (I only left one shattered Burning Dead in Tal Rasha's last time).
<<More Monty Python and the Holy Grail stuff! Sheesh>>: Heck yeah!
Sleep/stone sleep dichotomy: I agree with deducting for both.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 02:23:39 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

**Winterwolf**

Hi. What has everyone been up to? I was out most of the weekend but I felt like I didn't get to do anything fun.

Katara> Happy Belated birthday! Welcome back to the CR! It's good to have you back!

Niamhgold> <Titanic> You didn't want to see it? Well I managed to successfully steer clear of it completely. I didn't want to see it and I still refuse to watch it. I've dodged that bullet a few times now. ;) <Diablo II> Lightning you say? That's perfect! Right now you a nova specialist. So that lets you make anything fried! ;) So you know, nova is a ring of electricity that shoots out in a ring around you. <90% of our brains> What I would like to know is where that idea came from. Humans use only 10% of their brains. Was this a scientific study? How can you prove the proportion of the brain that is used? Anyone care to enlighten me on this one? ^_^

Gside> <cold> Just because you blast something with cold doesn't guarantee that it will shatter. I'm not saying that cold is bad though. Far from it! In fact it might be one of the best groups because Cold Mastery allows you to ignore cold resistance. Unfortunately that has to wait until level 30. Meanwhile fire and lightning have better damage rates as far as I've seen. I'll end this topic on this though each and every skill point is precious so choose wisely. <cow level> I've see the screen shots. Those are some evil looking cows. Picture - A horde of angry cows walking on their hind legs wielding battle axes with murderous gleams in their eyes. <five when he meant three> More Monty Python and the Holy Grail stuff! Sheesh! :)

Shadowrider> I got your email and sent you one back. The poem is excellent! Thanks for sending a copy to me. I would have replied sooner but I was out this weekend. :)

Raven> Hello! Welcome to the CR! Enjoy your stay!

Brooklyn> I wanted to put up Episode 2 Friday or Saturday but I can't seem to login. Could you double check it for me? I'll talk to you later.

DPH> <egroups> I really should post in the egroup. Just making a statement here. That's all.

Gargoyle life span> I thought I'd do some rough math here for my own amusement. Let's say gargoyles could live to around 200 years old and humans to around 100 years old. Gargoyles must spend half the time in stone sleep hence we have 100 years now. Well I don't know about the rest of you but as I human I need to sleep also. Depending if I say I sleep an average of 8 hours a night or 6 hours a night. That gives me a conscious active time of 66 years of life or 75 years of life. In my opinion this means Gargoyles have more active hours of life in their lifespan then humans do. I felt the need to do this because it seemed that several of us feel that we shouldn't count the gargoyles stone sleep time, but by that token it is unfair to count the human sleep time. It just seemed like a double standard of sorts to me so I thought I'd bring it up. What do you guys think?

Starting this week's CR...

Rodlox> Seems you have a similar thought to my own. I wrote the above before I read your post. :) <Cassandra> It seems she has been MIA for some time now. :(

Conformity Poll> I just don't know. Maybe I'll just go with dazed and confused for now.

Jenna> Good to know work is better. Cheers!

Niamhgold> Oh! Hello there. :)

Shadowrider> Unfortunately reading Brooklyn story is a little difficult because it is on my computer right now and I can't login to post it for him. All I do is just manually add in the HTML code to it and upload the stories.

DPH> **Winterwolf is really backlogged right now.** I'll get something in ASAP.

TGS Comments> There are some very interesting thoughts and opinions going around the CR. Thanks to Airwalker and company for bringing so many good points up. I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts. I'll be keeping to the sidelines for now unless/until I feel I have something to add.

Bronx> <horses> Words fail me. **sigh** **shakes his head**

A moment of silence for the horses.





SOROW> Welcome back. I'm glad you liked the email.

Good night!

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 01:50:22 AM
IP: nas-7-25.nyc.navipath.net

Bronx:
That's horrible! I've always been an animal lover, and your story shocked and appalled me. However, please don't feel bad about sharing with us! That's what we're here for. There are no other words. :(
----
TGS discussion:
It's funny how are minds work. Earlier today I was thinking something similar to what Gasper posted. People usually write fanfic because they enjoy it. They might appreciate feedback and comments, but they are doing it to satisfy their own personal needs and desires. A fanfic author is God in his/her world. He/she determines how the characters should behave. Different authors certainly don't agree on what is "right" nor would I want them to. It's interesting to see the different approaches. Now, TGS is more complicated. It's a collaborative effort by writers who don't always agree. Also, we sometimes tend to see it as being somehow more "real" than other forms of fanfic. It's not. It's no more (or less) valid than any other story. NONE of us are going to be happy with EVERYTHING in TGS. For instance, I got really tired of the Unseelie dominating last season. They were used too much for my taste, and I'm glad they're gone. But that's just me.

That was a bit confused. I'm tired. Let me just say a couple of other things.

Most stories that I've read have Demona either redeemed (or close to it) or still as a villain. TGS has taken a different and original path. They have Demona outwardly moderating her behavior, but she is also wrestling with her own inner demons. Her fear. Her guilt. Her hate. Two scenes I really liked: when Demona was outside the window arguing with herself while Elisa was dying, and when she started drinking after Angela told her about Goliath and Elisa. Demona is tormented inside, and now that she can't fall back on her crutch of hatred like she used to, she is having to deal with her feelings. This opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities for stories and I look forward to seeing how TGS handles it. It has nothing to do with what I think is "right." I'm not sure if Demona actually can be redeemed, but I'd like to see how things go. But that's just my opinion.

As far as Goliath and Elisa being too impulsive, love tends to do that sometimes. :) I doubt that they are analyzing the situation with the kind of logic that we are. Also, tragedy does often have that kind of effect on relationships in real life. It's not always a good thing, but it does happen. I think we can look forward to some interesting problems with their relationship in the future.

I guess I'm saying that while I might have done things a little differently, I have no real problem with the way things are going. And that I'm probably typing gibberish at this point and should shut up. :) I know that I didn't say everything I wanted to say the way I wanted to, but I'm too tired to revise it now.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 01:22:57 AM
IP: ppp-20.rb6.exit109.com

(Also consider that a punishment I wanted to see given to Susan Smith was for her to be welded into a Yugo that was pushed into the Potomac)
Coyote again
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:53:14 AM
IP: 216.28.101.59

Allow me to clarify my position ... I am only presenting a *theory* of karmic justice. I wouldn't want to be the one to actually pull the trigger on such an act; however, the situations I've seen in the past of animal cruelty of this sort of scale have always resulted in a punishment that has *never* fit the crime (worst example, a man who kept some animals in such decrepit conditions that a few had to be destroyed due to illness or injury wound up paying a minimal fine and performing community service, along with time served). Whoever committed this act did *not* simply kill an animal. This bastard(s) killed 31 animals that were quite literally held down by the head with no place to go, mainly because they had a hard-on to burn something and decided, "Oh, this barn will do just nicely."

If they do find these guys ... I'm willing to bet cash money that they'll wind up with a comparitive slap on the wrist, because that's the way this country works ...
Coyote the Bando
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:51:51 AM
IP: 216.28.101.59

Okay, sorry for the second post, I just thought I had to speak my mind here.

What the f!ck is wrong with some of you? I'm very sorry that some asshole torched a bunch of horses. That's a seriously screwed up thing to do, and whomever did do that has some serious mental health problems. But what the hell's wrong with some of you? Wanting to set the offenders on fire? That's ridiculous. I'm sorry if this is a controversial or unpopular opinion to take in light of the sympathy for the animals who are dead, but I have to say it's NEVER right to kill another human being just for killing an animal. You wanna torch the SOB for setting fire to say, a homeless person (a disturbing crime which, unfortunately, really does happen, and often), that's one thing. Killing another human being because he lit up several horses is just wrong. I'm sorry to take the "They're just animals" stance here, but when it comes to the taking of human life, do it for the right reasons (if it can be argued that "right" reasons exist). I actually believe in a highly modified "eye for an eye" system of justice, but I do not feel it's justified to kill another human being for killing a horse. Or a bunch of horses. Or all the horses in the world.

Sorry if some of you take offense to this, but I just found it offensive to suggest killing another human being, no matter how despicable they are, just because they slaughtered a defenseless animal. That's a sick crime, but come on--calling for the criminal's death? That's just ridiculous overkill.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:31:04 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

I'm going to temporarily delay my RP for a day or so to see what Robby does. If Robby does anything.

Lots of stuff today from the Do We Really Care? Department.

First off, "Scary Movie" killed at the box office, making close to 43 million dollars altogether. I don't understand this. Tons of my friends went to see this movie, but I have no interest. It's like a retarded spoof of every broke-dick horror movie made in the last 10 years.....plus it has the Wayans brothers all over it. Trust me--Wayans Bros. do not equal entertainment.
I am looking forward to this weekend's X-Men premiere. Although I don't think that it'll make that much money.

Also, some Blade Runner news: If you care, Ridley Scott has finally given us an answer to the "Who's the final replicant" question. The reason Harrison Ford's character acted so stone-faced was not because he was a hard-boiled replicant hunter, but because, by golly, he was a replicant himself! (Which easily explains Harrison Ford's generally wooden acting style--he's a robot!)
This begs me to question why Blade Runner is so popular in the first place. Can a big Blade Runner fan explain this to me? I'm being serious. I've seen the film, and while it's not bad, it doesn't strike me as one of the ultimate science fiction movies of all time. I know that when it came out in theaters, it was a disappointment. Is this one of those movies that just built up such a huge cult following that it has gained almost unanimous acceptance in the genre, i.e. a film such as "The Evil Dead" does with the horror genre?

And finally in Do We Really Care? news, if you heard a loud gasp this weekend, it was probably Jackal's heart stopping. Earlier this weekend, reports began coming out that Britney Spears was going to MARRY Justin Timberlake, one of the Beautiful People from the band N*Sync. If the ramifications of such a mating do not scare you like they do me, just think about it. America has become saturated with annoying girl and boy bubble-gum pop groups. And then, then THEY WOULD BE BREEDING. It's like that old movie, "It's Alive". "The Timberlake-Spears have just given birth....and the worst part is, IT'S ALIVE!!!"
But thank the Lord, all is well, and today Britney's publicist issued a press release saying the story is utter nonsense, and that Britney and Justin are "just friends" (read into that what you will). Britney prides herself on being a virgin, and has sworn to abstain from sex until she is married.
My favorite, Christina Aguilera, has made no such assertions, which is why she's my favorite. ;)

Killing: I too must express distaste over tha old "No better than the villain" cliche. The funny thing about it, though, is that Goliath has no qualms about breaking that cliche, even if one time Elisa used it. That's what I admire about Goliath--you push him hard enough, he would actually respond with lethal force. I see this as a quality of a good leader. He doesn't use lethal force except when ultimately necessary, but he will use it.

Gargoyles and Natural Selection: I'm sure I'll be refuted, but does anyone else agree with me that...from a purely natural selection point of view....ultimately the Gargoyles are a dying species? They may be an "older race", but I would think fortune favors the humans when it comes to long-term survival. I just feel that we have too many things stacked in our favor--first and foremost our hyper-active reproductive systems, which dwarf those of the gargoyles. Does anyone agree with me?

Demona: I too must voice displeasure at the way in which Demona has been "redeemed" in TGS. I've always felt that her redemption was sort of handed to her, and that she hasn't done much to earn it.
Of course, and I've had flame wars over this opinion, I've always believed that Demona never deserved redemption in the first place. For some reason, I keep remember that whole silly "I'm going to wipe out 6 billion humans just for kicks" genocide thingie she was involved in.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:20:59 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

**enters and immediately gives Bronx a sympathetic hug**

You have my sincerest condolences for your loss, friend. This is probably the perfect situation for ultimate karmic justice ... when they find the jerkwads who did it, they should be stripped naked, their heads bound with gags and muzzles, strapped down to a hitching post, left in a barn doused in gasoline and set on fire. The punishment fits the crime *exactly.*

Gside: The Traveling Wilburys:
George Harrison
Roy Orbison
Tom Petty
Bob Dylan
uhm ... the frontman from ELO (don't recall the man's name right now)
There was a sixth? Hmm ... now that ya mention it, I think Ringo Starr was a Wilbury, too.

**hugs Bronx once more before leaving**
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:14:50 AM
IP: 216.28.101.59

Hi to all. I'm just letting everyone know that I'm back from camping. It was fun at some times, but I'm glad to be back home. *group hug*
SOROW
Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:12:13 AM
IP: dll2a010-0145.splitrock.net

*enters*

Bronx> WHAT????? 31 horses were killed in a fire arson??? *growls hostily* I am a complete supporter of animal rights and all things related. My family LOVES animals! That is just so terrible! I hope whatever Creator there is will fry their sorry @sses in whatever hell there might be for all eternity.

That reminds me, a little while ago, when my sister was spending the night over at her BF's (no they weren't sleeping together, get your minds out of the gutter! :P) My mom's car (which my sister used to get there) was vandilized. Some really retarded 15 year old boys (who for a period of weeks have been doing this) got up REALLY early in the morning, went out and broke my mom's car window. But there's great news. >:) They little rats got caught!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Now we're pressing charges on them and they are SO going to pay. >:)
Mary Flanders
Monday, July 10, 2000 11:51:21 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

It's way too damned hot up here in Minnesota.....Minnesota is supposed to be in the 70's to 80's at MOST! By Kami!

Bronx, I am sorry for your lose. I can only offer my condolences, and pray that they find the arsonist if it was one, and send the SOB away for a VERY LONG TIME. Dammit, even the lives of animals should be respected. Stop killing the damned Timberwolf. It's only trying to live, just like you. Respect horses, for they are what got us here today. Here's hopin' the find the b@stard that did this...

***BEGIN RANT/LONG WINDEDNESS*****
On realism in TGS- Gargoyles is and was one of the only mostly realistic series with a fantasy element that I've ever seen on TV. I sometimes wish Life was really like that, and I could be the Dragoon, (With a decent powerlevel, nothing too big...just able to kick some major rearendage. Sorry, had to cover the bases here.) with the ability to fly my own ship and fight for what I believe is right. Damndest part of it all is, that ain't gonna happen. Anyway, I'm off point. With the TGS, and the hope to see things that have been said, I will say this. Is the TGS writing for the fans, or for the enjoyment? In fanfiction, there is sometimes a thin line. A noted friend of mine, ZealPropht, is writing The Story of Magus ( a CT Fanfic) It's wildly popular on one of the pages she posts at. But in this same accord, she feels a lot of pressure to please the fans more then to please herself with the enjoyment of writing about her favorite character. For granted, this is a large scale operation that the TGS runs, but in the same write, these are authors who are writing for enjoyment and self-fulfillment more then anything. Myself? I'm in fanfic writing for my own personal enjoyment, and I imagine others are too. What an outside fan expects, and what comes out of the fanfic writers mind are Two completely different things. But all readers must come to the realization that Fanfic sometimes isn't just for them, it's for the authors.

Make sense so far?

Now, here is where I divirge. I don't write Fanfic persay, I take elements, fighting styles, technology, and such from various series, stir them, and let them play out. It's fanfic, and it's stealing a good bunch of peoples ideas, but it's fun. I don't make money of it, but I don't want to. I just want to have fun with stuff people have made up, gotten paid for, and put away. But when I write it, I know not many people will see it. It's not advertised on Icy Brian's Main page (though Zeal and Krazy Sam have told me it should be), but I'm glad it's not...because I only do it for fun, and don't want to hassle with pleasing the entire freaking world. If I tried, I'd never have a sentence done. Expectations of fanfic writers aare stupid. One can hope, but don't expect to see EVERYTHING you want in your favorite fan written story. Airwalker, I'm not trying to be mean on this, please don't think I am. I'm just saying what's on my mind.

I'm glad I don't get fanmail. Means no one is ready it, and no one is expecting the new chapter in less then a days time. (Kami knows that'd kill me good.) I'm guilty of expecting new updates...everyone is. But I shouldn't expect to see elements and beliefs that I want in a story written by another person.

Now I'm just going nowhere...anyway, I think we all get the picture. Write for fun, if you start writing for the masses , you might become droll, boring, and like John Grisham. I loved the Firm, Loved the Runaway Jury, but I will never pick up the Street Lawyer. I barely got through The Breathren. THe only good book he's done since Jury is The Testement, and that was just a beautiful book. ANyway, my point is, Fanfic Writers, have fun with what you do. If you need to take time, take it. Readers, give them some slack, and don't try the steer a story towards a certain belief or point, because it just means you're being ungrateful in a certain respect.

I'm not pointing fingers and scolding, I'm just saying what's on my mind...because this is what I believe.

***End Rant******

Let's see....gosh...now I'm just wasted...I don't know what else to say. Well, I guess that's all from me....I've whined and b*tched long enough. Later folks.



Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com ]
MN, US
Monday, July 10, 2000 11:34:41 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Bronx> ...I can't actually think of anything to say. I don't think my words have any power to bring comfort, but I hope the fact that I wish they could helps you a little.

Maybe it helps to remember that grief is for the living, because the dead are beyond pain. The void never goes away, but parts of it are re-filled after time.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Monday, July 10, 2000 11:32:07 PM
IP: ip130.fort-worth8.tx.pub-ip.psi.net

Curly++ gets up slowly from the couch...

Bronx>>
I too had horse friends when I was young. One of my favorite ponies at the camp/ranch I stayed at was sold. Someone started a rumor that he was going to the glue factory. Many of us snuck off that day to bring him little treats with tears in our eyes. Fortunately, we were assured at supper time that he was going to a good home. I also had some bad news today, but your story brought tears to my eyes. I can not believe any sane person would do such a thing.

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Monday, July 10, 2000 11:06:09 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Curly++ flopps down on the nearest couch, "Whatta day! Somebody rub my feat." He kicks off is shoes reliving a fowl odor.

Daniel Johnson>>
<need to move the story and characters along is more important than maintaining realism.>
I'm glad you said that. A 20 year fertility cycle on a 200 year life span screams to me that there would be no monogomous relationships and fertile females would be driven to mate with every available male so one of 'em do the job. Cyborg says I'm too into realism.

Katara>>
<People are like icebergs...the world sees what is above the water, yet we have so much more hidden below the surface.>
I like that. I'd say it was deep, but I'd probably banned from the CR.

Warpmind de InzanE>>
<I've never played NetHack in my life>
Huh? Must'a been an imposter. We had a "Warpmind de Insane" (I think it was an "s") join the newsgroup for a few months. IIRC, (s)he only asked intelligent questions and was always glad to help a newbier newbie.
<except, it's an RPG, right?> Single player roguelike. It's been in development for 15 years, has everything from Winged Gargoyles to the kitchen sink. No, I'm not joking about the kitchen sink. Upgrades happen irregularly, most recent was Dec 11. There are spinnoffs that try adding everything from Star Trek to cow pastures. Some work so well The Dev Team (a godlike group of programmers) add them to the real game, other additions are original from The Dev Team, who think of everything.


Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Monday, July 10, 2000 10:51:14 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

*walks in with tears in her eyes, lights a small white candle and sets it on a table*

**Waring, ramble/rant coming this way***
I just want to apologize up front, because I know this really has nothing to do with gargoyles. I just didnt have any place else to turn to.. and noone here truly understands.
On top of myself having a horrible cold, this day has just dragged on. A day from hell. So I might just start from the begining..
When I was younger.. I loved horses. Two other of my friends and myself practically grew up on this barn close to our town, and we worked and rode for the owners (who are the most wonderful people in the world.) I have so fond memories in that time..
I'm older now, and I've stopped riding for a number of years. But the memories have always been there.. and never forgot the horses.
Tragety struck me today- the barn burned down. All 31 horses.. all 31 of my friends died.
And do you know what they think the cause might be?
Arson.
Why the hell would anyone want to do something like that! I've been wracking my mind all afternoon in wonder, why would anyone want to kill beautiful creatures.. that would do anything for their riders. Is it a thrill? Was it a dare? Or just the fact that lighting a match and throwing it into there was an act proving ones power..
What kills me is that I'll never know, and the horses that I grew up with had to suffer.
The other thing that discusts me is the media. My friend all day has been attacked by reporters over the phone and in person asking all sorts of ridiculous questions. I think the worst one yet was when one asked her why she was so upset. Does anyone have any heart anymore.. ::sighs:: So I ask.. where is the compassion. A story is a story..
But when I found out about this news, I kinda felt like Goliath when the Hunters blew up the clocktower. "This time of our life is over" So with all the memories I have.. this'll unfortunetly be the first one to pop up.
::sighs:: Again. I apologize.
**End rambling/rant****
Bronx - [BronxWyvern4@aol.com]
Monday, July 10, 2000 10:13:49 PM
IP: spider-wo072.proxy.aol.com

G2K > just wondering if anyone who's planning to attend has any particular topics they'd like to see covered on the fanfic panel?

Update > the new story's moving briskly along, not sure _where_ it's going, but it's moving briskly ; ) Which will be the deciding factor for Puck, the lure of big blue eyes or the threat of a big armored fist?

Sabledrake Stuff > just a reminder that the August issue, "War and Warlords", is still accepting submissions!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Monday, July 10, 2000 09:54:00 PM
IP: 14-085.009.popsite.net

KATHY - You wrote: [Sata and Brooklyn got married. Angela and Broadway had a MATING CEREMONY. Yes, it had some human elements because of their cross cultural upbringing and the wishes of their friends to participate but it was at heart a gargoyle ceremony.]

Your absolutely right. I just tend to use marriage and married just out of habit. I didn't mean to imply that Broadway and Angela's Ceremony in TGS wasn't a Gargoyle ceremony. Sorry about that.

You wrote: [Elisa nearly died. AGAIN. Goliath finally got it through his thick head that if he loved her enough to make her a part of his life then he better get on and do it.]

A move on his or her part only seems to get made right after Elisa gets through a lifethreatening situation. We all noticed it here - why hasn't Elisa noticed it? Why isn't she thinking about it? She's a detective, she's geared towards being questioning and suspicious towards everything. Arguably it can be said that she's let her guard down here and is just enjoying the thrill of the moment but eventually there should be some thought in the back of her head - am I rushing into this? Would he have done anything if I hadn't almost died? Is that what it takes to get a complete commitment - almost dying? Am I just doing this because I almost died and am afraid rather than because I really want to? Is this the right time? What kind of a life am I going to have? Are we going to live together? Where? Can Goliath live with me or do I have to live in the same castle as Xanatos? Do we continue the way we are now?

These are questions I think Elisa would ask even before jumping into something. But in TGS she jumped in anyway. So now that's she's had the moment of shock and enjoyment of the moment shouldn't she start to ask those questions? Isn't it possible that she might not like some of the answers she got and might come to the conclusion that maybe everyone got into everything for the wrong reasons, that Goliath didn't make a move out of love but out of fear of loss? That maybe it might actually be too huge a jump than they should have had?

You wrote: [Goliath used a very old gargoyle ritual and used the equivelent of it to elope with Elisa. This was noted by a few astue readers at the time "Seeds of Change" was released.]

I wasn't one of those readers. I was still under the impression that they were only engaged and not actually married/mated/whatever word you want to use. (It has been a while since I read through SEEDS OF CHANGE. I'll probably go back and read through it again. But I do have to say that given that I remember that episode dealing with so many threads, PENDRAGON as well as GARGOYLES, setting up new status quo's and such that it is easy to overlook.)


ANGELA/BROADWAY WEDDING/MATING CEREMONY/WHATEVER - It was a Gargoyle ceremony with some Human elements thrown in here and there. I just tend to use the term wedding because thats the word that tends to pop into my head. (That and its shorter than typing out mating ceremony.) I will say though that given the various bachelor parties and all the other plots that were being dealt with here and there it is sometimes a little hard to focus on the idea that there was a ceremony at all. Kind of like looking directly at a picture and seeing the background more clearly than the main picture subject.


PATRICK - You wrote: [Should Goliath have remained cold and kept his mind closed to the possibility of Demona one day rejoining the clan?]

Should Goliath have remained cold to the possibility that she might change? No. He believes in change, that there is hope. But Demona rejoining the clan in modern times? I know TGS has already done it but I was flabbergasted when it happened. She was trying to kill them only a short while before, she came too close to wiping out the Human race with soap, and she was let back in like nothing happened. In the future when she's spent years atoning and time has had a chance to dull the pain, then I personally could have seen a readmission into the clan. But this wasn't even a half a decade past either CITY OF STONE or HUNTERS MOON. She's atoned for that?

You wrote: [Should have Elisa, Brooklyn, Broadway, etc. have continued to hold a grudge?]

Brooklyn only got rid of his grudge through Timedancing. The years dulled his anger and pain.

Elisa doesn't have to hold a grudge despite the fact that Demona has tried to kill her on several occasions but should she trust her? Should she be comfortable around her? Not only did Elisa thwart several attempts Demona made to destroy Humanity, she's also in a relationship with her ex-husband to use Human terms. Is that likely to endear Demona to Elisa or visa versa?

As for Broadway I can see him endulging Angela and being civil towards Demona. But he was just recently in fights to the death with her. Why should he suddenly develop amnesia in regards to all this? From love to hate is one step and its impossible to ever completely move backwards once that step is taken. Now Broadway was never in love with Demona but he trusted her as a Second in Command, as a member of his clan as they all did and she betrayed him and them all on more than one occassion. He should suddenly recover from that and act like the years 1994-1997 didn't happen? (Personally I found his attitude towards Demona in REQUIEM to be much more realistic and in line than they were at the end of TGS S2.)

You wrote: [These behaviors would all be out of character for everyone involved, especially considering the magnitude of the other events (such as the SUW) that were going on simultaneosly.]

Having them all reject the possibility that Demona might be trying to change is wrong. But why should their memory banks suddenly become empty just because Demona isn't trying to kill Humanity anymore and Angela might give them a dirty look if they say something against her? What Demona has done isn't 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, it's 4 years ago and its something that everyone in that clan had to personally deal with. Angela didn't have to see the dead of CITY OF STONE but is that something that the Trio is supposed to gloss over? And that's just one example. Saying that they wouldn't be willing to consider that maybe she might be willing to take a step towards change is one thing. But saying that she's going to get completely accepted despite all she's done so close to that open wound of time is turning the whole clan into a bunch of saints.

You wrote: [It took 1000 years for Demona to become the gargoyle she was in 1994, so it should take 1000 years more for her to be restored to grace.]

I don't believe that. It doesn't have to take another thousand years for Demona to make a turnaround. But 4 years in which she hasn't really done that much except get a better representative in the Clan to speak about her? (1994-1996 it was Brooklyn who'd speak up when Demona's name came up. From 1997-2000 Angela has taken his place in that respect.) A thousand years of hate is suddenly going to disappear when she really hasn't done anything to make it disappear? Angela lectures her but she doesn't have to pay attention. And she hangs out with Andrea but she doesn't let her know she's a Gargoyle. Andrea is almost like a pet, someone who happens to make her daylight hours pass by a little more pleasantly. Not to mention that she is an immortal, she thinks like one, and should behave like one. And immortals who have been in isolation aren't going to have an easy time changing so quickly I imagine.
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Monday, July 10, 2000 09:21:23 PM
IP: 241.new-york-16-17rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

kathy > Thanks for being the first to say something... I've been thinking much the same.

Re: Angela and Broadway's mating ceremony > "...the gargoyle elements weren't distinct enough..." Um... re-roll that clip again, please? Anyone who missed the parallels between the "Dark Ages" flashback to Othello and Desdemona's mating ceremony and the modern-day one Broadway and Angela has must be completely blind or doing some real selective reading. I'm not sure how much clearer we could have made it without one of the characters pulling a Wil Smith and talking to the camera.

Re: Elisa and Goliath > I'm curious to see how season three continues on with this thread, too. But I guess only time will tell at this point.

Re: Demona > Without dealing with the religious meanings of the word (which are human concepts that are irrelevant for a discussion involving a gargoyle anyway), it's pretty hard to gain forgiveness unless the possibility of it is offered in the first place. Should Goliath have remained cold and kept his mind closed to the possibility of Demona one day rejoining the clan? Should have Elisa, Brooklyn, Broadway, etc. have continued to hold a grudge? These behaviors would all be out of character for everyone involved, especially considering the magnitude of the other events (such as the SUW) that were going on simultaneosly.

I think we get trapped, a lot of times, into thinking that only slow change equals good and quicker change equals bad. It took 1000 years for Demona to become the gargoyle she was in 1994, so it should take 1000 years more for her to be restored to grace. But that's not how the world really works. A mountain that took millenia to rise from the sea can be destroyed in seconds when the pressure that forced it up finally becomes too great.

Is TGS Demona totally reformed? Heck no. I never insisted she was. She's turned the bend, and maybe crested a small hill, but the road ahead is still long and treacherous. The main difference now is that, if she manages to play her cards right, she won't have to make the rest of the journey alone.
Patrick Toman
Monday, July 10, 2000 07:45:09 PM
IP: 98afdc57.ipt.aol.com

Hmm. Slow day today.

Thanks for the information about why I keep getting Javascript errors from time to time.

No BFTS RP from me today. I am too sleepy to think clearly ahead. Winterwolf, Could you please post a message describing your plans so I do not get ahead of time with your posts?

1+1>4

In my state, every two years someone comes up with a proposed amendment to the constitution to abolish property taxes. I am deadset against this idea because it would put public school funding in jeopardy. In your other states, are there people trying to do the same crazy thing?
DPH (Daniel Paul Hightower) - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
Monday, July 10, 2000 06:18:26 PM
IP: max1-18.cwy.cei.net

Just a quick post before sleep...

Doug:> Yes, I'm liking the story up to now...a lot, as usual :)

Raven:> I'm a bit late, but welcome here! I'm here since a few months myself, but I can assure you that in this CR you feel yourself at home after a few days or less! I hope you'll stay for long and enjoy the atmosphere!

Brooklyn:> Gonna read your story!:)

Winterwolf:> Got your email! Glad you liked the poem! :)

Interesting debate running here! I have nothing to say now, but I follow it with interest...

See tomorrow!
Good night to everyone!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Monday, July 10, 2000 05:59:28 PM
IP: h213-18-50.mi2.albacom.net

Howdy ho,
Boy you miss out on a weekend, you miss out on a lot.

What would I like to see in the upcoming season? Well, since I helped breakdown both of them, I can't get into specifics without spoiling it and we don't want that. I do hope that the writers will explore the situations. My favorite episodes like "To Restore Amends" didn't change the world, but did bring a stronger connection to the main characters by exploring them. Seeing what it means to be one thing or another.

Pacing> In regards to Elisa and Goliath. I think the pacing was there, it just got swamped in season 2. They did have dates, and get into fights (and spent who knows how long making out in the Library) But most of that was far in the background to the Unseelie or Demona or developing new characters so it comes almost as a surprise when Goliath proposes. I think the pacing was there it just wasn't noticed.

Demona on the other hand, I find myself agreeing with Airwalker. Maybe not on the speed, but I don't feel that Demona has really worked for redemption. It feels too much like it was handed to her. From my POV it looked more like the world adjusting to accomodate Demona than the other way around. Goliath had to make more of an adjustment in thinking and attitude than Demona did. For my money I don't think this is Demoa's permanent redemption. If it was then there would be nothing for her future beux, Benedict, to change.

Relationships> I more interested in how everyone relates to each other as opposed to just one or two characters. Seeing how a mated Brooklyn related to his rookery-sibs, like in Battle Below, was some of the best interaction between them.

Kathy> I can understand why it would drive you nuts, but may I offer my opinon. While Broadway and Angela's mating had human elements, the gargoyle elements weren't distinct. The wedding dress and the bachelor parties are very memorable. And all the guests doing things was interesting. But when it came to the actual ceremony it didn't seem distinctly gargoyle. Like something only a gargoyle could do or express. That might be why it's thought of as a wedding.

Airwalker> You might want to try for TGS anyway. For one thing, it isn't just writers. You have editors and artists as well. Breakdowns can be fun and acerbating, soemtime simultaneously. Editing can always use someone to proofread and comment on stories. And try to write. The only way to learn is practice. As any of the TGS can testify to my dialouge skills were atrocious. Only practice and patience (mucho kudos to Patrick on this score) have allowed me to improve them. My skill isn't perfect, passable at best, but much improved from the beginning. I'd encourage as many people as possible to joined up. I found it a rewarding experience.

And as a perk, you get to laugh maniacally behind your keyboard as you hear people speculating on the upcoming seasons.

*laughs maniacally Ha! Ha-Ha-Ha!*
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Monday, July 10, 2000 05:09:19 PM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

*******Spoiler for Titan AE************

Matthew> Well, actually I meant the intelligent guard bit, which isn't only Star Wars. Storm Troopers are just the dumbest guards I can think of. (Worse shots then the XE commandos)
************You can look now************

Gside><<"qualitative impairment of reciprocal social interaction...a restricted, stereotyped, repetitive
repertoire of interests and activities...common for them to be markedly clumsy"> Funny, that sounds a lot like me. And here I thought I was just a shy clutz.

Katara> Welcome back.

Doug> D'oh! That's right. I dunno why I said Kano.

Raven> Hi Raven. Welcome to the room. Please surrender any sanity you may have to the Administrator, and remember: Madness takes it's toll. So have exact change ready.

Gee, short post for a monday catch up.

Later.


Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Monday, July 10, 2000 04:41:05 PM
IP: ppp-218.tnt-2.sat.smartworld.net

** Niamhgold enters **

Whoo! I finally got in! I haven't been able to get onto the site since yesterday morning (which totally blew up my chances of getting top ten) :(

Katara: I *really* like your iceberg analogy. It made a lot of sense. You should patent it! ;) Oh, yes, almost forgot! ** Shakes hands ** I'm Niamhgold, a newbie. How are you?

Lexy: There will be an Art Show at G2K; I'm doing mine via airmail :) I don't know if it's too late to register, but you can e-mail Jubilee and ask. Her address is on the G2K page under "Art Show"

Shadowrider: Got your e-mail! Thanks for all your comments (I agree with you 100% on your viewpoints about "The Full Bounty"). Will reply to rest of your comments when I get back from work! :)

Winterwolf: Hi!

I'm too much in a rush to check up on last weeks CR right now, so I'll just post this. Will make other replies later!

Adios :)
Niamhgold - [niamhgold@hotmail.com]
Monday, July 10, 2000 02:40:16 PM
IP: lac-flex135.ncia.net

First of all I want to clarify something that drives me a little nuts everytime I see it. > Sata and Brooklyn got married. Angela and Broadway had a MATING CEREMONY. Yes, it had some human elements because of their cross cultural upbringing and the wishes of their friends to participate but it was at heart a gargoyle ceremony.

Second thing. Goliath and Elisa. God I get tired of hearing that they took things too fast. Elisa nearly died. AGAIN. Goliath finally got it through his thick head that if he loved her enough to make her a part of his life then he better get on and do it.

And this kiddies is the shocking part... I know because I wrote it. He did. Goliath used a very old gargoyle ritual and used the equivelent of it to elope with Elisa. This was noted by a few astue readers at the time "Seeds of Change" was released. Yes the references were necessarily vague do to S&P restrictions, but all the same it happened.

Now this is where it gets interesting. Goliath and Elisa were all set to make their big announcement. All they needed to do to make it officially official was pronounce their act before the clan. Specifically Hudson because he was the present Elder. But he reminded them of THEIR obligations to Clan and Family - specifically Elisa's family and they decided to keep their secret to themselves for a little longer.

What does this mean to Season Three? I don't know. Ask the people writing Season Three. But if it were me it would suggest all sorts of story possibility many of which I'd like to see.

Sorry guys if this is spoilerish. But I really had to get it off my chest.

Cheers.
kathy
Monday, July 10, 2000 11:28:04 AM
IP: rr-165-123-73.atl.mediaone.net

Where's that conformity test everyone is talkin about- can someone post a link?

Work is better now that the crazy is gone- much to the relief of myself, my boss, and my workers.

more later..
jenna - [jgargcia@msn.com]
Monday, July 10, 2000 08:07:19 AM
IP: 1cust231.tnt5.houston.tx.da.uu.net

*Warpmind enters, followed by Wagnerian tones.*
Agh, the music has been following me all day! *Blinks, flicks off a walkman.* Hey, it got better! ;) By the way, I finally sent my application letter to Chaosium today. With a wee bit of luck, I'll be officially assigned to write a Call of Cthulhu campaign for them. :)

Lexy: Um, I was referring to RP location, not RL location... really. :)

Rodlox: The "no" would, if applicable, mean that it wasn't on earth, but somewhere else... ;)

Curly++: NetHack? Me? Um... alas, I fear you must be confusing me with someone else. I've never played NetHack in my life; I'm not even sure what the concept of it is... except, it's an RPG, right?

Well, gotta run. Ciao.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, July 10, 2000 07:31:54 AM
IP: mp-217-203-54.daxnet.no

Archwolf> <<she isn't the brightest, so we use really big words on our production report>>: Have you been referring to yourselves as obfuscatory?

Doug> <<That's a good quote too. Thanks for it>>: Not a problem. I rather like researching. Plus, I've got a link to an online Bartlett'sin my toolbar.
<<and also the bit about old wounds>>: I've used the phrase here bofore, and I meant it again. I too have had to deal with taunting as I grew up, but not as bad as many stories I've heard here.

Warpmind> <<no Freudian interpretations of that comment, please>>: You're no fun.

Welcome, Raven.

Curly++> <<Practicaly every major project attempted with java has failed>>: Tell that to the Rutgers CS department. They've made Java the official language of Rutgers (and engineering is still having everyone learn ForTran).

And once again I am late with the mp3. So, I bring you a song and a quiz. The song is End of the Line by the Traveling Wilburys. The quiz is can you name the Traveling Wilburys from their voices (three of them are easy)? As a hint, the Traveling Wilburys are and are not Nelson, Otis, Charlie T. Jr., Lefty, and Lucky.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, July 10, 2000 02:57:32 AM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

*goes over and gives ArchWolf a hug and a cold glass of water. She then give WarFrost a rough scritch behind his ear as Canyon goes over to touch noses with him*

ARRGGGHHH!!! not even in the top 10! *kicks and stomps her foot*

Conformity poll>> I would basically be considered a conformist. I mostly stay within the lines of "normal" behavior and dress. Most people just consider me a bit odd, or quirky instead. But within my family they tend to think I'm more of a non-conformist as I enjoy doing "childish" things; would rather rent a "cartoon" instead of the latest blockbuster tape; and can relate easier to "fantasy" characters than to real people. *shrug* Who knows what that makes me. All I know, is that I try to live my life as best as I can, and try to be as accepting of everyone around me as much as possible. People are like icebergs...the world sees what is above the water, yet we have so much more hidden below the surface. (did that make any sense at all?)

Well, all that deep thinking took a lot out of me, so I'm heading down to grab a couple of tylenols. Everyone take care. =]
Katara - [garglover66f@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA
Monday, July 10, 2000 01:02:07 AM
IP: dialup-166.90.18.183.sandiego1.level3.net

PATRICK - You wrote: [I don't see how the vast majority of the "problems" you see can be solved without forgetting continuity and doing a bunch of mind wipes on the characters.]

I don't want continuity to be forgotten and mass mind wipes to be preformed on all the characters. I'm not suggesting that TGS be retroactively rewritten to fit any observations I've made. What is there should stay the way it is. But the future can still be molded. Broadway and Angela are married? Fine. But keeping them from turning into a Gargoyle JeanScott entity can be done. Demona is acting too reformed and screaming "I Love You" to every human in sight? No Problem! What's done is done. But she can notice that she's acting this way. She could have some sort of feelings on it. And she could start to revert to an older attitude if the fragile world she's constructed for herself started to collapse.

There doesn't have to be a massive reboot or a Gargoyle version of Crisis. Previous stories don't have to be changed - Future stories just have to interpret them a little differently. Demona seems to be too reformed - there must be a reason for that. Perhaps with Angela around she just fell into the movement of change without any real change having happened. Maybe she's been trying so hard that she hasn't really been trying at all. Maybe deep inside she just wants to be accepted again and is doing what has been presented to her as an easy way back into the in crowd. The Clan is too accepting? Maybe Goliath is just too distracted to really put effort into it and Broadway is humoring Angela. (Brooklyn has Timedancing to change his attitude and we haven't really seen Lex's opinion on the entire subject since he tends to get pushed into the background a lot.)

You wrote: [For now, I'll just restate my opinion that I don't think we moved "too fast" with either Demona or with Broadway and Angela.]

Obviously we disagree. But there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly I don't really mind that TGS married Broadway and Angela. It's one of those things that was not only expected but also just felt right. Demona's redemption on the other hand - well that's something we could both write pages on and never really come to an final answer.


DANIEL - You wrote: [However, Gargoyles ARE animals. So are humans. Sometimes people forget that.]

Yeah I know that. When I said that Gargoyles aren't animals I meant it differently. (That's the problem with the Internet - if we were talking face to face then tone probably would have carried the meaning through.) Technically both Gargoyles and Humans are animals. But I meant it in the manner of behavior. We may be animals but we are civilized - we have instincts but we don't have to act on them.

You wrote: [Gargoyles, like us, are subject to natural selection just like other animals. Natural selection favors reproductive success.]

True. The clan that has more couples will tend to last longer than the clan that has more singles. But that doesn't change the examples that I gave or the fact that as individuals they can choose not to mate if they don't want to. Caspian and Rosalind don't have to consumate a relationship if they aren't ready to just because the reproductive time comes along. Asrial wouldn't have to just have anyone so that she would have a child just because the time came around. It wouldn't work well for the species as a whole but who thinks in those terms when personal feelings are clouding the issue? If Asrial for example didn't want to just have a casual fling to have a baby, would she be thinking of the species survival or of her own personal feelings in the matter?

You wrote: [While it might be more realistic to stretch things out over a longer period of time, you run the risk of, well, boring people.]

True. And I'm not saying that things shouldn't happen. But we do have an example in the original series - it carried Goliath and Elisa's relationship plot for two years without becoming boring. It had pacing down. Goliath and Elisa's relationship wasn't the only thing going on. It wasn't the focus of every episode. It was one storyline among many in a seasonal arc. I don't see why such a formula couldn't continue.

You wrote: [How long are we willing to wait for Goliath and Elisa to overcome their doubt and angst? Another two years?]

So anything should be done for a milestone? They took a long time getting to a kiss. Now they took a real short time going towards marriage. Why not explore why that is? It occurred to me. Why wouldn't it occur to them? Why shouldn't they have doubt? Why shouldn't they talk and cry and argue over this? Why should they just go into another marriage episode so that they can enter Honeymoon mode so that they can spend endless episodes making googly eyes at each other and become a single JeanScott entity like the other couples?

You wrote: [And what about Demona? We've seen her as a villain already; do we want her to continue that way?]

I'm not saying that she should be a villain. But will she ever be a hero? It seems yes from the way things are going. Will there ever be forgivness, not only from others but from herself? Again it seems like yes from the way things are going. She doesn't have to retread old material but she doesn't have to suddenly jump into something else just for change sake. So she's not a villain anymore, does she have to be a hero? Can't she just be? Not as an anti-hero but just there, a figure that could go either way depending on the parties involved in whatever conflict? Does she have to start mumbling "I Love You" to everyone now that she's not a villain anymore? There is plenty of more material in Demona. Just look at the amount of discussion she generates in both comment rooms.
Airwalker
Brooklyn, NY
Monday, July 10, 2000 12:26:45 AM
IP: 144.new-york-13-14rs.ny.dial-access.att.net

Sorry for the second post, but I thought of another, more pragmatic, reason for NOT going slower. While it might be more realistic to stretch things out over a longer period of time, you run the risk of, well, boring people. If the characters do not regularly achieve new milestones, they are in danger of become stale and repetitive. How long are we willing to wait for Goliath and Elisa to overcome their doubt and angst? Another two years? And what about Demona? We've seen her as a villain already; do we want her to continue that way? She's in a very mentally precarious state right now. She's very unpredictable. As a true villain, she was VERY predictable and I was getting tired of that. I think she has more character development potential now.

Sometimes the need to move the story and characters along is more important than maintaining realism. Otherwise, most of us will get bored and go do something else.

Good night for real.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:45:00 PM
IP: ppp-10.rb5.exit109.com

Airwalker:
All good points.
One more thing I wanted to comment on, however. You said that gargs aren't animals and therefore aren't necessarily subject to biological pressures to breed. Gargs, like humans, have free will and can breed or not as they choose. However, Gargoyles ARE animals. So are humans. Sometimes people forget that. Gargoyles, like us, are subject to natural selection just like other animals. Natural selection favors reproductive success. Reproductive success doesn't have to be driven by some biological force, it can be cultural. Also, natural selection operates at the species level, not at the level of individuals. So individuals are certainly free to do what they want, but there should be some tendency toward behavior that favors maximizing offspring.

As for the younger gargoyles being to young to be fully indoctrinated, I don't think that's a good argument. That kind of cultural indoctrination begins at a very early age. I don't think many people are fully aware of it. Gargoyles (and humans) depend on their culture for survival. It's imperative that members of the community learn what they need to know as soon as possible. The younger ones might not know all the details, but the basic values have to be there.

Oh, well. I'm tired and I'm not thinking too clearly, so I'll call it a night. Otherwise I'll just keep rambling. :)
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:16:47 PM
IP: ppp-10.rb5.exit109.com

Too dang busy to do a proper post or follow up on the RP I started... Figures... Will try and post a proper ammount tommarrow tho...
Robby
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:09:40 PM
IP: spider-wb071.proxy.aol.com

Woohoo, I'm in the top googol. :P Just 26 days until G2K.

Lexy > Yes, there's an art show. There should be info on the G2K web site about it. See link below.

Airwalker > You've got lots of good observations there about TGS... but I don't see how the vast majority of the "problems" you see can be solved without forgetting continuity and doing a bunch of mind wipes on the characters. For now, I'll just restate my opinion that I don't think we moved "too fast" with either Demona or with Broadway and Angela.
Patrick Toman
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:06:55 PM
IP: aca05949.ipt.aol.com

I think I missed it but oh well 10 or 11. Something like that I'll post later.
Janine
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:05:03 PM
IP: phx-201.treknet.net

Warpmind de InzanE>>
<this is on the internet. Privacy on the net> I didn't say from the whole net, she knows my surfing habits and had good reason to expect I wouldn't read her comments of last week. If *she* had said I should read last weeks postings, that would be different.
BTW, are you still playing NetHack?

DPH>>
<I get spam to an email address never posted> There are many different organizations sending spam, they often have different ways of harvesting email addresses. For example, your ISP knows your address even if you never posted, mailed or whatever. They can also harvest the addresses of people you *send* email to.

<why 'modern' javascript causes error messages on older browsers?> Java in a web page can only be fully tested if the person making the page has a copy of every version of every browser running on every version of every operating system. It causes errors on new browsers too, except the page designers are more likely to have tested the code with the newer browser. Visit the web design newsgroups and you will see an incredible display of bigotry against anyone who doesn't buy the same brand new software they use.

Doug>>
<Sorry if you thought I was being a little bossy.> I didn't. I just thought I should explain why I would remain ignorant. I don't talk much, but put a keyboard in front of me and you can't get me to shut up!

Curly++ - [ocurtin@usa.net]
Montreal, Canada, Earth
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:04:45 PM
IP: modemcable165.125-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net

Top Ten!! Just!
Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Sunday, July 9, 2000 11:00:31 PM
IP: nas-15-94.nyc.navipath.net

Does anyone know if there is going to be an Art Show at G2K? I didn't see any mention of it in the last couple of emails, maybe I missed it. But I was just wondering if there is going to be one, and if so is it too late to enter? *shrugs* I should really know this by now...

Anyone? If ya know email me ok?

Thanks!

Lexy ^_^V

Lexy - [izzolexington3@yahoo.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:58:04 PM
IP: spider-tl012.proxy.aol.com

Top ten!!กก
Anonymous
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:48:06 PM
IP: ts005d13.alq-nm.concentric.net

6th
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:46:40 PM
IP: proxy2-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

oh...Fourth...whatever.

Rodlox - [Rodlox@hotmail .com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:37:17 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

FIFTH!!!
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:36:33 PM
IP: dialin-1060-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net

Topic: Garg lifespans, b.rates: <It's probably true that in the 10th century Gargoyles lived violent lives and didn't much make it to old age. (And when you analyze it they do still lead violent lives - less violent than it used to be but still a bit violent.) >

three words: Quarrymen!

since that discovery at least {finding out that there were humans out to smash them}, gargs worldwide would may have changed tehir outlook/worldview.....maybe a live-for-the-night philosophy?

as for gargs living 200years and humans only 100years -- bear in mind that humans are asleep for around half - maybe more - of their lives....what equivilent is there for gargs? {is there one?}. does their view on life and things HAVE TO be radically different? remember what i posted in the above paragraph about fatalisms.

garg breeding rates: here's a more OMINOUS(sp?) idea: gargoyles may be spurred by an increase in local food supplies! {there really are species which act as a precedent for this}. maybe _that's_ Broadway's secret! :)

btw, has anyone seen Cassandra still/lately?

**RP**
Anthony patiently waited for instructions. The demon had dumped them off, betraying his newfound cohorts.
TIme to see what was next. Perhaps this Four....?
*RP END*

note: if we're still on the ship/satilite with what's-his/its-name, i apologize.

Rodlox - [Rodlox@hotmail.]
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:36:22 PM
IP: cc391097-b.catv1.md.home.com

Third!
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@exit109.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:32:44 PM
IP: ppp-10.rb5.exit109.com

Top Ten! Yee-haw! **Caddy drives through, Coyote and Mara smooching in the front seat**
Coyote and Mara
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:31:41 PM
IP: 216.28.101.27

first
Anonymous
Sunday, July 9, 2000 10:29:45 PM
IP: spider-wa041.proxy.aol.com