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Wow, a talking CAT! Cool! ;)
Oh, wait. We've already got Attila.
But this is a SANE talking cat! THAT'S cool! :D
...And with what's gotta be the most literate intro anyone's ever given in here.
Welcome, fres- ah, newcomer! ;D

Entity - Replies later. I'm tired... ;P

If I should fall to rise no more
As many comrades did before
Then ask the fifes and drums to play
Over the hills and far away...
-Sharpe
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 10:15:11 PM
IP: 209-223-253-98.ausa.net

**RP BEGINS**
The cat has been sitting unnoticed in the rafters for quite some time now, listening to the conversations going on down below her. The cat's black tail twitches from time to time as certain things prick her interest. She learns. She thinks. Finally she comes to a decision and waits for darkness to descend upon the valley. Then, when the shadows creep into the corners and firelight dances across the faces of elves, wolves, banshees, and demons, she drops onto a table where she can keep her back to the wall.

Remaining stone-still until the startled gasps die down in an attempt to prevent reflexive fighting, the cat waits and then all eyes are turned to her. She blinks large green eyes. Finally, she speaks.

"Curiosity killed the cat. Well, that would be me, so I guess I don't have to watch for cars when I cross the street anymore. But curiousity does however bring me here. I believe an introduction is in order... My name is simply and obviously Cat. Some people call me Val. I have passed through many places such as Rhydin, Magia, and Virtual Magick. Currently I'm attempting to pass for human at Utah State University."

At this point the air shimmers and the black feline is replaced by a lithe, blond-haired, green eyed lady dressed in comfortable black boots, jeans, and t-shirt.

*Grin* "Hello. I'm an English major, about to be dragged out of my room by a tall redheaded feind who sometimes passes as an elf you know as Mecord. Apparently this involves dinner? Hmm, I wonder who tonight's victim will be? Regardless..."

She slips off the table and stands near the elf, a large black wolf by her other side.

I hope to be around. I don't sleep so it won't be a problem. I'm also on AIM as Kalytra.
Cat - [catherine_valentine@usa.net]
Logan, UT, USA
Saturday, November 11, 2000 09:39:23 PM
IP: kjerstin.dorms.usu.edu

Kit & Doug, Winterwolf, Niamhgold, Emambu:> Seems there are some problems with the email I sent. I retried just now. Please, if you can check and give me confirm you received it (it is supposed to be a ZIPped MP3 file included).
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 07:48:44 PM
IP: h213-20-125.mi2.albacom.net

Entity: <Ohio cow country>
Why do I get the feeling you are local?
Fire Storm
Detroit Area, Mi
Saturday, November 11, 2000 07:23:47 PM
IP: pppa92-resaledetroit5-1r7020.saturn.bbn.com

I just got back from a 2 and 1/2 hour excursion (to and fro) to visit a college campus, which also required the early rise of 5 AM. Let me tell you, getting enough sleep the night before is NOT a good strategy. Picture endless road, and NO RADIO. Apparently, that far out into Ohio cow country, you can barely get anything. One interesting thing about the sky out there, though -- it looks like The Simpsons sky they show in the opening. ;)

Gunjack> To continue our witty interchange...
<<<If, as I suspect, he chooses to remain silent, is it for his benefit or for ours, or is there a third option? *pauses to hear replies.>>> The convenient loophole here is, of course, that we can never possible guess as to an omniscient being's intentions. So, we can never qualify or disqualify its existence based on such a route. (But incidentally, assuming God did exist, it would have to be option C, as you say.)

<<<So it's impossible to change a belief? IMO, this is the kind of mess that people inevitably get into by argueing God's existence based on the concept of Hell.>>> It's not impossible for a belief to change, but it is impossible to change a belief. You can't just decide to go from Darwinism to Creationism, say, or vice versa. You have to convince yourself of the validity of a new belief or you haven't really adopted it. Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me.

<<<He doesn't. Going to Hell isn't a matter of God throwing you out of a plane, it's a matter of you jumping and refusing to use your parachute.>>> An argument I've heard many a time. How about this one, courtesy of my Junior religion teacher? Just because there is a Hell doesn't mean there are people in it.

When it comes down to it, whether by direct action or indirect action, God is sentencing souls to an eternity (take a minute and contemplate that word, eternity) of suffering based on a code of law we had no part in agreeing to. Just because Abraham made a pact with God so that his wife could get pregnant doesn't mean we're bound by it. So what if God doesn't send us to Hell, per say? He allows it to happen. According to what he's told us, standing by and letting something bad happen is a sin. Furthermore, he created Hell. Furthermore upon that, he doesn't clearly tell us about Hell. Guess he'd shrug at the concept of the Miranda Rights.

<<<Assuming that the being in question is omnipotent, what's there to gain by resisting?>>> That's the same question citizens oppressed under a dictatorship ask themselves. Sure, God is a bit of a bigger thing to tackle with, but I see two options: (a) God really isn't God, therefore by definition (or rather lack thereof) he should be capable of being overcome. (b) God is God, in which case it comes down to a matter of pride; die on your feet or live on your knees thing.

<<<Uh, yeah. Why?>>> Didn't figure you for my age.

<<<But diversity is GOOD!>>> True, but I'd rather it be diffused than bunched.

<<<Also, the seperation of the states creates a firebreak.>>> That's a good point. Didn't think of that.

<<<Heh. I'm originaly from NY, but I love it here (except for the weather)!>>> My God, man, _another_ one? Just how many Texans are there in here?

<<<You shoulda been there for the three way arguement me
and some college students had about whether or not Texas xould whip the rest of the US in a civil war...>>> You know, that's interesting, because I've been thinking about divulging my idea for solving this whole election business: De-anex Texas. They were originally going to be their own country anyway, and hey, they've got the industry and the acreage. (Not to mention what will become national pride.) The U.S. unloads a strip of smoggy, oily desert (I can already tell how this'll go over) and Texas finally frees itself of the inferiority complex its had ever since Alaska. ;) Bush, already Governor, can become Texas' President, and there you are. If anyone else wants to go to Bush country, we'll just open those floodgates; it'll be like the immigration during Texas' youth days under Mexico.

<<<The randomness evident in the universe is a result of the interaction of the orderly framework, not an indication of the framework's randomness.>>> I'm dead opposite you on this. I see order from chaos, not the other way around. Current mathematical theory (well, one side of it) supports this. Ever read "Jurassic Park"? Malcolm's infamous Chaos Theory is a good case in point.

<<<In other words, does it reclaim all the energy radiated away by the various cosmic events during the expansion?>>> I would imagine, since the universe is defined by the extent of existence we can identify with. Therefore, the extent of existence in which the laws of science are true -- and contained.

<<<Hmm. Interesting thought... Which would you say the positive emotions are? Of the top of my head, I'd say Doubt heads the list...>>> Doubt can go either way. There's intelligent doubt, and doubt from lack of confidence, for example. I don't see it as much as the good emotions vs. the bad, but how an individual handles any given one. It's a matter of emotional maturity. (Which often coincides with mental maturity.)

<<<Which is more efficient: to take subtle, deniable steps to make sure your word stays intact, or to do everything over again every few thousand years?>>> Both of those are rather limiting. How about an *pulls out bullhorn* open relationship? ;)

<<<It's an emotion (and primarily a negative one at that), and as such is rather non-specific.>>> Well, I don't personally believe in conscience. I see it as an abstract construct intended to represent moral thought processes, which are really no different than any others. But even assuming it does exist, and by popular definition, it would be more of a "feeling" than an emotion. There's a narrow difference, I think.

<<<Given these three, can you see any options left other than eternal seperation?>>> Let's go down the list... <<<Premise #1 - God's nature demands that he seperate himself from Sin.>>> I'd say God's nature is for God to decide. <<<Premise #2 - The only way path of redemption is through Jesus(as stated in the Bible).>>> The Bible was written by followers of Jesus, and applied to that region of the world. (Tell me the letters of Paul, and half the other stuff in there, wasn't directly applicable for the place and the time, and only really valuable today for history?) <<<Premise #3 - All choices made in this life are eternal in nature (also stated in the Bible).>>> Scare tactics. Simple rules for a simple people. If you -could- make them think that, what would you have to lose by doing so?

<<>> "Cows With Guns" has given me a whole new outlook on the bovine population. ;)

<<<Riddle me this: the only reason to controling people is to get them to do what you want against their better judgement; usually, this involves persoanl benefit for the controller.>>> If I may... Not always. Don't you think social order is just as valuable? Those who would be "accused" of making up religions are those oppositely "credited" with relaying them. Look at the Eastern religions. They were primarily founded by thinkers who sought to find structure and meaning in the world they lived in. Buddhism, for instance, is blatently credited as having been invented, not "revealed."

<<<-The God/Truth Connection-
Premise #1 - There is absolute Moral Truth of some kind.
Premise #2 - IF #1 is true, then there must be an authority that decides Truth.>>> Not necessarily. Why can't Truth be a mere force, an element? It's the same thing I find unappealing about personifying Time or Fate.

SJ: <<>> Hmmm... you've gotten the tiny wheels in my brain to start turning. But honestly, it's so much easier to forget those things, and just look at him on TV. (If I get a critical response to this, you will be kicked, for this is self-mockery.)

<<<He's not good at oral like Bill.....I mean good at orating....>>> LOL

<<<If you truly question everything, you'd look at atheism with the same critical eye as you do religion.>>> I'm butting in again, but... I'd say, while not 100% guaranteed, athiesm is as safest as you can get as far as beliefs. The safest, of course, is agnosticism. :)

Robby: <<<Ya know, I'm kinda surprised no one has brought up Cartoon Network's airing of Endless Waltz today...>>> Taped... haven't watched... must... avert... eyes...

Gunjack: <<<Mine too! :D I haven't read his work yet, but I was introduced to logic by a book written using his methods and style.>>> Suddenly I feel inadequate. :)

Green Baron: <<<Aside from it being a part of my Catholci
tradition, there is a line in Acts about praying for souls in prison...>>> Should I open _another_ can of worms, considering how long this post of mine has already gotten? Eh, why not. Here's my question (open to everyone): do you see prayer as a sort of "playing favorites"? If you get prayed for, you're helped, but if not... are you not helped? If you're stuck under a rock and no one knows, do you recieve less grace from God than someone who everyone knows is dying?

<<<The Senate exists as a cooling pot to pour the hot tea of Congress into.>>> Heheh, that analogy alone may've sold me. ;)

<<<Would you want to do away with counties and parishes (Louisiana's equivalent of counties), too.>>> No.

<<<Who is your Congressman?>>> No idea. Does multiple choice count?

<<<Why do you find Lazio such an ass? I find his main fault was in not really campaigning and instead running on a purely anti-Hillary ticket.>>> There you have your answer.

<<<How about just calling you guys rednecks :)>>> LOL!

Guess I can end my post now, FINALLY... I just want to say, before I go, that in regards to the election, I'm honestly apathetic now. As anti-Bush as I am, no matter which candidate gets into office, NOTHING is going to be accomplished. With such a 50/50 split, it's just going to be four long years of stagnation. And during a peak in our country's economy, of all times. The only thing I really fear is that Bush will be able to save Gates' ass. If he does, so help me God...

...I'll sit here and furiously type about it! ;)
Entity
Saturday, November 11, 2000 07:20:52 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

CHRISTINE - In the first episode of "X-Men:Evolution", Professor Xavier gave Nightcrawler some sort of hologram-device that he can use to project a "human" image of himself about himself, providing a handy disguise whenever he goes out in public.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, November 11, 2000 06:24:55 PM
IP: 216.87.46.11.dialup-stl.primary.net

**Winterwolf looks exceptionally bright eyed and bushy tailed**

Hi! Wow one night of sleep for eight hours and I feel like I slept for days! I feel great! Or maybe that's because of something else that happened last night... ;D

Shadowrider's back for the weekend! Hurray! ^_^

Shadowrider> Great to have you back for the weekend! I'll be sure to check my email and let you know what is going on with me! I've almost finished a long and difficult week. There is still today and tomorrow that I may have to correct major problems on the websites. News has been extra tough with the election info and the page views going through the roof, but so far we managed to go without crashing while the presidential election hoopla is ongoing. If only the producers and storywriters could be more careful so I wouldn't have to clean up after them! :)

Warpmind> <coughing up small splinters of wood and aluminum> **Winterwolf hands you a heavy-duty dust mask** Be careful there! I don't want to hear horror stories of you coughing up a lung or blood! Okay?

XenaTrek> **Huggles** Hi right back at ya! :) Hope you managed to snag an absentee ballot for Michigan. I believe I recall you saying you did but I'm not absolutely certain.

Gside> Hey, it's okay! It just shows how close we feel to her! ^_^

Brooklyn> Hi! <where have I been> Making the web a happy place for news, sports and entertainment enthusiasts. Not the fanatics though I not good enough for them! :P

Archwolf> Welcome back. <food fight> Have fun! I recommend dessert items as well as food that will readily go SPLAT! :D <The other wolf> Hey have you locked away poor ShadowWolf again? ;)

Mecord> Can it be? Is it really? Mecord!! O.O You have returned! Yippie! ^_^ <love> You just want to be pestered for details now huh? Well best of luck to you! Enjoy yourself as much as possible! :)

Shadowrider> I didn't get any email from you yet. :( Oh I'm sure it is on the way soon! I'll be sending you something soon. I also plan on sending the next letter. I'll send you the address I have in my email to confirm it! Have a good time on your weekend off!

DPH> **hangs his head and shakes it** I hope you manage to come on better times soon. Whether you can be on your own or manage to come to acceptable terms with your father.

Gunjack Valentine> <Tentacles? It's all your fault, Gside> Hmm... Actually I believe the tentacles came from Wilek first. They just get around! ;D

**REPOSTED JUST FOR Caliope!!**

Note there is only approximately 16% new comments added to this reply! Not a significant daily allowance of new material! ^_^

Caliope> Hi! **HUGZ** ~_^ <Roswell> It will be great! I tape them just in case I can't see the episode when it's on. I'd give you the tape in case you miss it but that's probably easier said than done! ;P I'm holding off talking about the new episode until I know you're ready! **bounces** Are you ready yet cause I want to talk about it, yes it was quite good! :) <Tess> I think we could have just had her get together with Kyle and then just make sure they don't run off out of Roswell. The two of them looked about ready to come together don't you think? <PR> I better start checking out the flight info! :P <Anime con> Enjoy the Anime con! I expect to here some details! ;) <DC> I also want details on DC! Have a blast! :D <hyper> Hey that's one of the reasons I like you so much! lol **HUGZ again** <gone a week> Oh in that case... **gives you a few HUGZ for each day you'll be gone** Thanks for the big supply of HUGZ! It will make the week better and I know it will be needed! ^_^

**END REPOST**

******WARNING - BFTS RP SHORT******

Winterwolf and Uriel watch the car as it climbs the mountain ready to appear once the car stops.

******END WARNING - BFTS RP SHORT******

Okay I have to write some emails and finish the rest of my RL tasks! ^_^

**Winterwolf leaves**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Saturday, November 11, 2000 05:45:29 PM
IP: 206.15.120.122

A good day today. I'm carving out plans for TCs #6, 7, and 8, all of them based on a nifty little alternate reality I've had tucked away for several years. :) ...Plus, I managed to get in on CS 1.0 today, and the new design rocks. I wish I had one tenth the talent Gooseman packs into his little finger... 8D

Robby><<A typical anime law... If a show has three or more shades for one color, it means they're spending WAY too much time on animation, generally to try and cover up the fact that the story lacks.>> That... SUCKS. Heck, *I* could give 'em stories and plotlines for *free*; if they're jonesing for creativity that badly, I weep for Japan. :P Just imagine how great it would be to tie that skill at animation to a truly KA sstoryline.

Greg><<Don't worry, I don't plan to abandon logic anytime soon. Why that would be illogical ;)>> That's a relief! :D ...You've gotta understand, my last debate on this topic left me with a bad taste in my mouth... ;P

Green Baron - Thanks for the cartoon link... :)
<<The Senate exists as a cooling pot to pour the hot tea of Congress into.>> Ooo, good metaphor! :) <<Also, most of the American people are idiots, regardless of who they vote for, and if they had too much power, we'd really be an international joke.>> ...Your faith in the people stuns us all. :P C'mon GB, the American people aren't THAT bad; I'd say they're currently hovering around the "dimwitted sheep" level, but that's still a touch above "Total Idiocy"... ;)
<<How about just calling you guys rednecks :)>> Hey, watch it 'Mano! I'm gonna be going to school there for four years! :P <<Question: Why is a light rail bad? I always found it a good idea, myself.>> What the heck's a light rail?
<<O'Connor and Rehnquist, as well as Ginsberg who is 68 and has health probelms might not be replaced by conseratiev Justices.>> That's why I want Bush. Don't even talk to me about this "Living Constitution" crap.
<<Additionally, if Roe v Wade were overturned, there would be a backlash and it woudl be reinstated soon after.>> How so? <> I agree with the first part, but if it IS murder, should we not at least *TRY* to stop it as soon as possible?
<<Aside from it being a part of my Catholci tradition, there is a line in Acts about praying for souls in prison...>> Hm, interesting. Can you give a lazy Gunjack the chapter? I don't doubt it's there, I just don't wanna look through the whole book. :P <<...as well as lines from Maccabee about praying for the dead (Luther removed Maccabees because it was a Greek book)...>> I don't by into the Apocrypha much... Out of curiousity, how do you clasify the Gospel of Thomas?
<<...as well as a parable about a man being imprisoned until his debt was paid.>> Another good point. This bears looking into... :)
<<It was an act of Hubris to remove books form the Bible and to allay himself with the German princes.>> ...I'm not sure about the political part, but I think I agree with his division of the Bible. The Bible I read (66 books, you know the drill) has a fascinating consistency, with which several of the other "books" I've seen seem to clash. Yet another thing thatbears looking into. :)
<<If I think up a good thing about religion, and something he does is the first to come to mind, I'd be an athiest too.>> Be nice... ;) ...Though I agree about Mr. Jackson. A classic example of a religious leader who lets the "Leader" part trump the "Religious" part... :P
<<They are social engineering and have as much place in Governemnt as Pat Robertson.>> All I want, aside from the Supreme Court, is to avoid being strapped down on the torture rack of Social Security.

Archwolf><<*Various arms and tentacle type things reach in and grab Archwolf*>> o_O ...Tentacles? Itr's all your fault, Gside! ...well, your's and Micheal Poe's, at any rate... ;)

Welcome back, Mecord!

Shadowrider><<Great to see you as well! Things are going quite goods for me these days, and what about you?>> Life is my oyster. 8) I'm cooling my heels for another few months before college, so I'm brushing up on my Logic with Entity and Greg and blow the rest of my time reading webcomics and doing really cool stuff with Halflife. :D
<<<looks down> Aw, a religious debate...>> Like you wouldn't believe! And you missed the big one last week between me and PAN over logic... <> It is a pity. I've brushed up on my logic a bit since the last time we danced... :)
<<...but, I can't avoid to think: what about his glorious girlfriend?>> About that... You think your squad could bum me a Hawk missle? I'm fresh out, and it's for a good cause... ;D

Man, another slow day... Well, I'm off to the Grand Llama hunt, so see yas latter. :)
And the quote goes to Shadowrider and Jaden. Give 'em Hell, guys! ;D

When Duty calls me, I must go
To stand and face another foe
To battle we will always stray
Over the hills and far away...
-Sharpe
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 04:53:29 PM
IP: 209-223-253-81.ausa.net

New on my site --
"The Dissidents: Bodwyn's Coffer." A new story in the spin-off series featuring members of the Avalon Clan.
Also have lots of great new art in the Gallery! Check it all out with a click or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html

Doug > yeah, I was gonna do one called "Necrivore" and probably will eventually, but it just didn't work out that way this time. As for you and Kit tying the knot, may as well wait a while now so's as to not steal the thunder of or upstage Steph and Keith (but better look out, that ring sounded like it set a pretty pricey precedent, time to start saving up! <g>).

DPH > signed copies of limited-edition books always make nifty prezzies, hey-hey! ; ) I'm so bad ...

X-Men Evolution > okay, I missed the first episode, so can someone tell me what the heck is up with Nightcrawler? As in, why's he look like a regular kid sometimes and then turns to his usual blue, tailed self? What'd I miss? As for the rest of it, I am not at all optimistic ... was like X-Men 90210 :P

Election > what a ridiculous situation ... I just wish all of this was so close because we had two such incredible candidates that no one could decide, instead of having it seem to be a case of which is the least objectionable. But it's probably all an Illuminati plot anyway, to make sure the Year 2000 election is a memorable one for the history books.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 04:51:41 PM
IP: 07-124.009.popsite.net

An upset DPH enters the room after an attempting choking to death by his idiot dad for refusing to give him the key to the computere room.

**CURRENT SITUATION**
Yesterday, my dad asked me to take towels off the line either by myself or with his help. I could not right now because my back was hurting. After about an hour, my back felt good so I went outside and too all of the washclothes and dishtowels off the line. My back was hurting alot so I came inside to rest. A few minutes later, he came inside the house and asked me to help him take the towels off the line right now. I told him I could not because my back was hurting, but I had took off some of the things off the line. A few minutes, he locked me out of the computer room. I was unable to get in to just a few minutes before my earlier post. I find the key to the room and that is how I was able to get in. That brings you up to date to the beginning of this post.
**END CURRENT SITUATION**

I am still very upset and somewhat fearfull of my life right now. If my post ends in my sentence, you know I had to go offline right then.

Entity - some people are rednecks, some are not.

GXB - I firmly believe in a moment of silence to pray to whatever god(s)/goddess(es) you believe in. That should make everyone happy.

**BFTS RP continues**
DPH replies, "ok, I have a solution. Everyone gets their own pizza. Just make to sure to specify the size and the toppings on the piece of paper I am passing around."

Frost asks a question after looking out the window and seeing a curve that prevents a car from falling in the ravine, "If DPH, Plastique, Jason, Mr Connect, or myself is not driving, who is driving the car?"
**END BFTS RP for now**

That's all for now.
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Saturday, November 11, 2000 04:33:21 PM
IP: max1-9.cwy.cei.net

*A moment of silence for the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald, who died 25 years ago Friday.*

*May the 29 souls aboard find peace*

More later.
Fire Storm - [Night-flame@usa.net]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 04:18:32 PM
IP: pppa92-resaledetroit5-1r7020.saturn.bbn.com

GB:> Aww...you hit where it hurts...;)
Shadowrider
Saturday, November 11, 2000 03:46:52 PM
IP: h213-18-218.mi2.albacom.net

Shadowrider> I've looked at your country's politics. Now that is amusing :p

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 03:42:47 PM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

Click on my name for a good laugh
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 03:33:27 PM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

Oops that was supposed to be welcome *back*

sory for the multiple posts.
Mec
Saturday, November 11, 2000 03:17:27 PM
IP: c1213678-a.logan1.ut.home.com

Welcome bace yourself Shadowrider! :)

Mec
Saturday, November 11, 2000 03:16:35 PM
IP: c1213678-a.logan1.ut.home.com

Sorry for 2nd post...

Welcome back, Mecord!

Later
Shadowrider
Saturday, November 11, 2000 02:57:50 PM
IP: h213-18-218.mi2.albacom.net

Hi to everyone! I'm here again...

Ok, ok: I know I said I was going to read the previous CRs, so to update myself...but I gave up: they're TOO big! I apologize, but with all my good will, I can't spend my whole licence in reading the CRs...I just caught some things here and there.

Thanks a lot to everyone welcomed me back. To all those I don't know: Hi, nice to meet you. I hope you all will feel good in here as I did when I arrived, and that you will do everything to return everytime you can, like I do.

Some days ago I've seen "X-Men", finally. Good movie...very good, indeed, I enjoyed it a lot. Good action, good actors (particularly Jackman, a true surprise), some interesting reflections and some funny scenes (I couldn't help but laughing when Ray "Darth Maul" Park, after throwing Storm in the elevator makes a certain pose...). Flaws...well, some scenes could be done a little better...for example, when Storm comes out of the elevator. And Storm herself is not like the one of the comics...in the books, in fact, Storm has a majesty and a aura of power that are missing in the movie. Anyway, in complex, a good movie, and a good start for a series of movies (I think to a saga like for James Bond...)

Niamhgold, Winterwolf, Emambu, Doug & Kit:> Check your email.

My small contribution to the Presidential thing. Needlessly to say, here we are following with attention this thing. Anyway, don't worry...we Italians are quite used to elections in which, to understand who's the winner, you need a team of experts. I assure you that is possible to live that way...well, almost. Anyway, I have a proposal: a coabitation! Practically, Gore and Bush will be both presidents, and they will esercitate the charge alternatively on a montly base... ;) Ok, I'm joking...

Valentine:> Great to see you as well! Things are going quite goos for me these days, and what about you?
<looks down> Aw, a religious debate...I have the temptation to take part, but I have no time to read the previous interventions...Damn! Oh, well, another time...

Doug & Kit (again):> Good to see you, friends. How are things going for you? I've read quickly through your posts...So, Gus is dead, isn't it? Hmm...I can't say I'm afraid for it...not sincerely, although such a death...I don't wish such a death for anyone, not even my worst enemy. Anyway, he's gone...but, I can't avoid to think: what about his glorious girlfriend? Where is she now? And, more important, what will she do now? So, please, be careful, both of you. I know you two can take care of yourselves...but be careful anyway.

GB:> Hi, my friend! Did my letter reach you already? I suppose not, I mailed it only Thursday, but you never know...<<...Our President is Bill Clinton...>> Did I hear well? You have no president at all?! ;D Ok, I'm joking again...but, you can't deny that the situation the USA are living is quite unusual. Just mind, some days ago one of our sergeants told us "Prepare yourself, boys...probably the ONU will soon send us to survey the American Elections...".

ArchWolf:> Hey, 'wolf! A long time we don't see, isn't it? Anyway, as you may have heard, things for me in the military are going quite good. What I do is interesting enough, and I have some time to work on my new fics too. And what are you doing these days?

Nothing more, later everyone!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Saturday, November 11, 2000 02:56:21 PM
IP: h213-18-218.mi2.albacom.net

I do not know how much time I have to make this post so expect a much bigger post with replies later.

My dad locked out of the computer room because I refused to stand up when my back was hurting me. I do not have time for much more right now, maybe I will later.
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Saturday, November 11, 2000 02:54:25 PM
IP: max1-50.cwy.cei.net

**The lights in the CR suddenly diminish to nothing. Amidst the cries of protest a low thrum can be heard. The noise increases and everyone turns to find its source. A pinpoint of silvery light is seen in mid air. The diameter increases casting a pale moon-like glow over everyone. The shimmering mirror surface of this aberration is suddenly broken by what appears to be a massive talon. Higher up what looks to be an enormous wing. Everyone backs away as the enormous creature enters the room. Quickly many realize what they are seeing is a dragon sidestepping through this portal. And as the dragon�s head and neck appear they see a rider� an elf.**

I�M BACK!!!

Don�t know for how long though. That depends on this real life thing I�ve been dealing with. Much has been going on in my life. Some of it extraordinarily good, some incredibly bad. Trying to juggle work, school, falling in love, and all the other things that comprise my life means that those other things tend to get neglected. Yes you read right, falling in love. Long complicated story that. The plot line is a depressing melodrama that many of you would find amusing. This is where I grin and move onto a different subject leaving you all hanging for more details.� :)

Thanks to Doug, Kit, Archwolf, and the Green Baron for their continued correspondence outside of the CR. Most of my online time is to talk with my friends via AIM. So if any of you ever want to try and reach me that way my sn is MecordLein My loging on is sporadic at best but if you ever see me around feel free to say hi.

Presidential Election>> Looks like the main topic of discussion everywhere has been the election. Do any of you know if there is a fall back plan if this isn�t decided by January 20th? And if so, what is it. I�ve heard there was but I�m not sure if the source is reliable.

Archwolf>> good luck on the food fight. :)

Doug>> check your e-mail I sent another story.

And speaking of stories�

*****RP TIME*****
Gar pauses in his work, �Area 51? How utterly simplistic, I expected better from the Guild. Really Lithanne, your mind has become so much more orderly. Makes it nice to pull out what I need,� There was no response from the elf hanging from the ceiling, �oh yes I would have to release you from that nasty spell for any sort of conversation wouldn�t I? Well I much prefer a slave to a conversationalist. But you do make rather nice bait on that hook I must admit.�
Maniacal laughter fills the halls.

Thicarrn readies his weapons and spells, �Let�s go.�
Mec looks the elf turned Rambo over, �A machine gun? You�ve never even used one of those before.�
�I�ve enchanted it for accuracy and piercing.�
A female elf named Senthet looks up from readying her own weapons, �With magic meant for a bow I�d wager, you have no idea how that will affect it.�
A tall human with golden hair entered the room. His name is Kemel and he is truly no human at all but a dragon warrior, �Bardic sent me to go with you.�
Mecord looked all them over, �Alright open you�re portal Kemel, and stay sharp, our access will be detected almost before we get there. Now let�s go get Lithanne.�
The portal opened and they all jumped through, ready to fight off a horde of goblins if need be. The hall was empty, and more, it was straight and polished.
�Where are we?� Senthet asked, �Kemel did you get the spell right?�
�Of course, we are exactly where you left. See the traces of Bardic�s cold blast there.�
Mecord nods, �We�ll worry about it later. Thic, your spell, find your sister.�
*****This invasion continued in the next RP*****

Mecord Lein the long lost Elf
Saturday, November 11, 2000 02:42:48 PM
IP: c1213678-a.logan1.ut.home.com

*Archwolf comes running into the room looking hunted* Don't let it get me! RL is out in force!! It wants to take all my time. HELP!!

Anyway

*looks around* yipes have I missed a bunch.

ShadowRider> Great to see ya gain! Hope all in going well for you in the military.

Gathering> Marina Sirtis will be there!? ARG! Now I really really _really_ have to go (hey, she's one of my favorite villans, what can I say?).

Warpmind>Happy (very belated) B-Day, and god luck with the new apartment.

New X-Men> Ok. So far, I have only one good thing to say about this show. Cyclops owns a '66 Cobra. Well, OWNED...they crushed it. I like how he comments that they want something low key, and endup driving a Cobra.

*Various arms and tentacle type things reach in and grab Archwolf* Well, looks like it's time to go again...now I have a food fight to plan and attend.

Laters All
Shade and Sweet Water
Archwolf - [archwolf@collegeclub.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 01:52:40 PM
IP: viking202-88.dhcp.csuohio.edu

Heh. For those of you who aren't up on your webcomics, click the name link for Sluggy Freelance's penetrating analysis of the issues behind our (endlessly) ongoing election. ;D

It's forty schillings on the Drum,
For those who volunteer to come
To 'list and fight the foe today,
Over the hills and far away...
-Sharpe
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Land of the free, Home of the brave
Saturday, November 11, 2000 12:41:55 PM
IP: 209-223-253-3.ausa.net

RP WARNING!!!
**Hillary Clinton returns from her party with her entourgae of thugs, including AFL-CIO President John Sweeney, UAW President Tony Villantino deCorelone, John Gotti, and other various lowlifes.

She comes home and sees the priosn has ben breached and later finds a sealed tub of salt. Some UAW thugs break open the salt tub to find Donna Brazille mutilated and appearantly dead as she choked on salt.

Hillary then yells for Socks and Buddy, who both come running.

"Sorry, milady. Buddy and I were sleeping."
"You fools. While you slept, Attila, Velvet, and Warpmind escaped, plus the guards and Donna Brazille are now dead."

"Hisss!!!! Attila escaped. That decadent old catnip snorting felon escaped?"

"Yes, and you're quite old yourself. You and Buddy can arrange a team to find him. I want him back. Now, I need to ready my Presidential campaign for 2004. How does Clinton/Waters sound?"

And with that, Socks and Buddy assembled some RedSith knights along with a few UAW thugs, and set off to bring back Attila.**
TO BE CONTINUED!!!!

Entity> There are issues where the Federal Government possess unifomrm authority and some they have concurrent with states, while others are entirely forbidden to teh Feds and soem are forbidden to all Government, which are the rights we as individuals posess. Among these are the right to pre-marital sex, the right to have an abortion, the right to worship or not to worship. The right to go to a public, private, or parocjial school. The right to decide how many children we may have. The Federal Government could not efficiently govern the whole nation from Washington DC. If the states were removed, the US Senate would be eliminated too, and while I owul love to see Ted Kennedy out of a job, I think it would be bad to simply have a Unicameral legislature. The Senate exists as a cooling pot to pour the hot tea of Congress into. They exist to create balance.

We are not a uniform Amercian culture, either, which is very good. Even states like Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania are diverse wth their own cultures, though they are the Rust Belt area.

Also, what about our local governments? Would you want to do away with counties and parishes (Louisiana's equivalent of counties), too. I admit that it may have an Economy of Scales effect to have a Unitary Government, though I don't see how such a system is feasible, unless a great deal of local control was given to the county and parish Governments. Also, states legisaltures draw up Congressional ditsricts. If the Congress drew their district, they'd guarantee each other re-election. That reminds me. Who is your Congressman?

<<sounds like you've just got a Parliamental, the-little-people-verse-the-well-bred mentality going.>>

No, though that reminds me of the US House and Senate and their original differences, though now both are elite bodies. I'll tell you why I think that if you want to know. To have pure democracy, we should do away with our represeantives and do everything by referendum. Referendums are good for many issues, but not everything. To me, the more local a government is, the more it should resemble a pure democracy, so municipal stuff which is really the biggest factor in our lives, like if Elyria proposed bond issues to improve their DMV or if they were to do it by a millage, or if it was from a trust fund established by the state lottery commission. On a state level, referendums for meidicinal marijuana, partial birth abortions, school choice, or provisions in the state constitution are generally appliable. Now, as far as I know, there are no national referendums, beyond a nationwide election, and even then it isn't a referendum unless people could vote on promises made and which they wanted and didn't.

Another danger to pur democarcy are populists. These demagouges who are the "voice of the people" like Hitler, Huey Long, Mussolini, and Geroge Wallace could be elected and a lot of rights would be gone.

Also, most of the American people are idiots, regardless of who they vote for, and if they had too much power, we'd really be an international joke.

Why do you find Lazio such an ass? I find his main fault was in not really campaigning and instead running on a purely anti-Hillary ticket. I prefer Lazio's policies to Clinton, who I do not beleive is a New Democrat, but instead a progressive old school McGovernite. Hoepfully I'm wrong about that. The Senate seat she ran is fitting, as Bobby Kennedy won it in 1964, though he lived in Virginia and James Buckley (brother of William F. Buckley) won it in 1970, though he lived in Connecticut. The other Senator, Charles Schumer is a crude, obnoxious putzhead, so it may not be hard for Hillary to be the more respected of those two.

Kyryn> The butterfly ballot is alos used in Cook County, Illinois, <sarcasm> bastion of fair and proper elections</sarcasm> home of Bill Daley and there were no complaints about the election in Plam Beach before by any Democrats on the Electoral commission. I think Kevorkian should be pardoned and moved down to Southern Florida. I have no sympathy for those senile old farts.

Bronx> The job you do may not be pleasant, but it serves as a learning experience that will enrich you in the long-run. While you may not enjoy as much free time as your friends, you will be more responsible as you are doing an unpleasant job. Besides, you really don't have a choice it seems.

You want Gore? Well, I still love ya ;)

DPH> <<Hey, entity, it's ARKANSAN not Arkansanian. However, it a point of question whether or not to call residents of my states 'Arkies'. >> How about just calling you guys rednecks :)

Jaden> A coin toss would be funny, but something would happen.

Sevarius Jr.> Corzine still won with only 51%. I am surprsied Daniel Johnson has not mentioend anything about this.

As for the Election, I think we will have an interesting four years.

Lady Corax> Dancing Dubya. It's better than Gore's macarene.

Doug> $I won't bother with Gore or any of that. They're all yours.$

Question: Why is a light rail bad? I always found it a good idea, myself.

Winterwolf> I don't doubt that Niamhgold has a great inner-beauty, but I want to see a pic, too. Actually, I'd take a trip to New Hampshire to meet her, though I can't subsidize the trip at the moment. And not just for her looks, either, though I woudl bring a camera so we can all see the Niamhgold ;)

King Snarf> I don't buy much into conspiarcy theroies, though Bush Sr. was CIA Director. I find today the CIA is not as shady. It's the ATF that has become more dangerous.

Gunjack> First of all, the Supreme Court and primarily Justices Stephens, Rehnquist, and O'Connor are rumored to retire. Some people thought Stephens would retire by now. He's 80, but Pope John XXIII was older than that when he started Vatican II. O'Connor and Rehnquist, as well as Ginsberg who is 68 and has health probelms might not be replaced by conseratiev Justices. Can you say David Souter? Additionally, if Roe v Wade were overturned, there would be a backlash and it woudl be reinstated soon after. This would also have a prohibition effect on abortion and thinsg woudl only get worse. There are other ways Bush can limit abortion without the Supreme Court. Perhaps he can work to eliminate red tape for adoption, and try to have sex education classes talk about the bad side effects of abortion, like a higher risk of breast cancer, as well as good old fashioned abstinence. I would rather combat abortion through love, education, and hope than by litigation and the federal government.

<<Out of curiousity, where do you get the concept of Purgatory from, anyway? >> Aside from it being a part of my Catholci tradition, there is a line in Acts about praying for souls in prison, as well as lines from Maccabee about praying for the dead (Luther removed Maccabees because it was a Greek book), as well as a parable about a man being imprisoned until his debt was paid. Plus, nothing unclean can enter the Kingdom of Heaven, so unclean souls have to be cleaned first or else we're all in Hell, and I doubt its as nice as South Park portrays it.

<<Is it an act of Hubris to state that a group is not following its own beliefs?>> It was an act of Hubris to remove books form the Bible and to allay himself with the German princes. He had legitimate grievances, but some were petty and not responsible for the corruption.

GXB> <<If I recall correctly it was a Reverend who flew to meet Slobodon Milosevic and convinced him to release the American troops he captured back during the Kosovo incident.>> That minister was Jesse Jackson, a charlatan of the first degree. If I think up a good thing about religion,a nd something he does is the fstt to come to mind, I'd be an athiest, too.

The split Congress will keep Bush and Gore in check. The major tax cut of Bush will hopefully be reduced and Gore's targeted tax cuts will hopefully never see the light of day. They are social engineering and have as much place in Governemnt as Pat Robertson.

Shadowrider> I am glad to see you again. Our President is Bill Clinton and he will remain so until January 20th or whatever the third Monday of January is.

::waves to Xena Trek and does a Dubya dance for her with Attila::

Gside> Personally, I don't think souls are subject to the laws of science. Science applies to nature and souls are supernatural.
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Saturday, November 11, 2000 12:36:09 PM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

Sevarius Jr> Yes I confess, I have questioned my atheism at times and have wondered if there is a God. I'm not just saying this, I have. I am often going between being agnostic and being an atheist.

Gunjack> Don't worry, I don't plan to abandon logic anytime soon. Why that would be illogical ;)
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 09:40:55 AM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

*Valentine wanders in, marking time to "Piano Man" with his Op Special and humming softly*

And here I was thinking Billy Joel was a loser... Yup, I have my occasional idiotic moments. :P Anyway, I'm all caught up on my webcomics, I've gotten my TFC binge out of the way (57/13), the newest CS update is downloading, and there's nothing left to do but listen to music, post a bit, and get some pictures drawn. I'm a contented man. :)

*looks at his last post* ...Ya know, this is why they try to get you to type while looking at the screen... Darn typos! :P

Gside><<Anyone else think this is Total Recall 2?>> All I want is a good action flick. Something in the line of Predator. <<Plus, Moore's law probably won't slow down too much.>> I should hope not... When do you think they'll crack molecular computing? :) <<Odd place to put a kidney.>> Kidneys, plural. Don't ask. ;P
Thanks for the Exothermic Proof, by the way! My dad and I got a huge kick out of it. :)
<<And besides, binary isn't that bad.>> Says you... :P <<It's the flipflops, busses and microcode that's annoying.>> Please! There are tender ears around! ;) <<I've heard of a device called a DexDrive, and supposedly RPGamer.com will be archiving submitted RPGs.>> Cool! How long has this thing been around? I've heard nothing about it...
<<Depends on the mass of the universe. We're not quite sure yet.>> I wouldn't think it would matter. At the very end of the expansion cycle, energy would be radiated that would have too much of a head start to ever be caught by the strengthening gravity of the implosion... Or am I missing something? *thinks a bit* would the curvature of space bring the radiation back into the gravitic danger zone? *shrugs* ...That's the only explanation I can think of.
<> I don't *think* so... O_o *shrugs* anyone else heard about this?

Azreal><<No, modern authority doesn't have to prove itself, but only because it already has.>> Good point. Let's back up a bit and define terms a bit. How does an authority "prove" it's right? To my understanding, the only proof of actual authority is whether or not the ruler has power over the ruled.
*goes back and reads posts again*
Hm. I think there should be a distinction drawn here. Authority really has nothing to do with Justice, as it is based solely on Power. Justice has nothing to do with power, but rather is grounded in Truth. Do you agree?

Doug><<What makes you think I want to run away from Kit?>> *Valentine sighs mournfully* ...Another bachelor bites the dust. We will mourn your passing... ;) <<And most of them have been by choice too.>> Cool! :)

SJ><<Because counting things by hand can be just so more accurate. No chance of human error there.>> Couldja turn up the Irony meter a bit? I don't think you're dripping enough... ;) <<Ladies and Gentlemen, get out your raincoats, because at this point I think both Al Gore and George Bush have whipped out their tricks and are gearing up for one big pissing contest.>> Since the results won't matter anyway until the absentees arrive, what's the harm? At the least, we'll find out which candidate Got Wang... ;D
No, if they're planning on dragging this sucker out past the arrival and counting of the overseas ballots, I *WILL* get pissed; However, how likely is that? At that point, anyone who even *thinks* about another challenge will end their political career forever, and will probably be chased out of the US by lynch mobs... :)
<<You have to be willing to look at your own beliefs and say "maybe their is a God after all". If you truly question everything, you'd look at atheism with the same critical eye as you do religion.>> I for one think he will, and I'll be more than happy to supply the questions if he's running a bit low... :D

Greg><> I assume this means that you follow logic, which is a good thing. :)<<whom happens to be one of my favorite phylosophers.>> Mine too! :D I haven't read his work yet, but I was introduced to logic by a book written using his methods and style. <<Do I believe in one absolute truth? No, because the truth changes depending on your point of view.>> Ah, the Big Anwser, though admitedly not the one I was hoping for. As it so happens, this is the exact stance that Paul took during our dialogue, with one noticable difference; you haven't abandoned logic, and therefore are still rational.

*Valentine Jumps up on his desk, and fires his pistol in the air*
ATTENTION!!! Anyone who believes the statement "there is no Absolute Truth, please read the following and, if you consider yourself a rational person, attempt to refute. This is a rather important point, and I'd like to have as many eyes examining it for flaws as possible.
*Jumps down from his desk and turns to Greg*

So, heir of Socrates, let's play dominos. ;)

If there is no Truth, then there's no moral Truth.
If there's no Moral Truth, then there's no Right and Wrong.
If there's no Right and Wrong, then all ethical decisions are subjective.

So far, nothing horribly ugly has cropped up. "So all ethics are subjective. Big deal. You follow your beliefs, I'll follow mine, and we all go home happy."
Unfortunately, this is where things go very, VERY wrong. *grins wickedly*

If all ethical decisions (and by extension all ethical statements) are subjective, then they are all equally false.
If all ethical decisions/statements are false, then there is absolutely NO REASON LEFT why I should respect them. Furthermore, there is no logical motivation left for the individual but personal gain, since all altruistic motives have been proven illogical.

What this leaves us with is a world where man cares nothing for his fellow man, and the whole purpose of life is the persuit of personal pleasure with no regard to the consequences for others. The only remaining dam left holding back this chaos is Government.
Benevolent Government can (try to) force its citizens to act in everyone's best interests, right? Only one problem: Why should the Government act for the common "good"? Being nice to your citizens is no "better" than enslaving them for your own pleasure, so there's no logical reason to be benevolent.
Oops, two problems: Assuming the Government DOES stay benevolent for some illogical motive, there's no reason left to obey it's laws except fear of punishment. If you're sure you can get away with it, there's no reason not to do ANYTHING that benefits me directly in ANY WAY.
Nope, make that *three* problems: All benevolent governments are based on the Rule of Law, which happens to be built on a foundation of Absolute Truth. Remove that foundation and our entire legal system collapses, followed shortly by every government that tries to base itself on Justice.

This is the world created by the domino you toppled, and unless you can logically steady one of the other dominos in the chain, you must either abandon your premise or step into the Jungle.
I eagerly await your reply... :)

*Valentine yawns and glances at the clock*
Yeesh. Slow day, eh? Hopefully there'll be more to see tomorrow... 'Night, people!

He says "Son, can you play me a memory?
I'm not really sure how it goes
But it's sad and it's sweet,
and I knew it complete,
When I wore a younger man's clothes...
-Billy Joel, "Piano Man"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 03:21:54 AM
IP: 209-223-253-91.ausa.net

Robby: Thanks for RPing, glad you finally got the chance. :) Kit will take care of the Dirty Laundry Gang's last members and bring Mephisto up to date in her post on Tuesday of next week. :)

Hey Shadowrider! Good to see you again. We don't know who our President is yet- explanation complicated- but we've all been doing okay. <grin> Glad you have too.

Gunjack: What makes you think I want to run away from Kit? <laughs> I will marry her someday, I know I will. Just can't say when, and hate having to. <grin> <Can the RPG be transferred?> Maybe with a Dex Drive, and if we both have RPG Maker. I'm not sure. Glad you've read and enjoyed Sum of All Fears too, I also like the Liz Elliot and Cathy Ryan plotline.

Gside: That thing about the bones was an exgaggeration. But he's been hurt badly so many times it might as well be true. Bronco breaking, cattle herding, car wrecks, bar fights, muggings, Jammer's had to deal with all sorts of really bad life-threatening situations. And most of them have been by choice too. <shakes head>

More later.
Doug
Saturday, November 11, 2000 12:56:18 AM
IP: pool-63.52.168.236.dlls.grid.net

**SPOILERS FOR ENDLESS WALTZ**

Ya know, I'm kinda surprised no one has brought up Cartoon Network's airing of Endless Waltz today... Ya know, the Gundam WIng movie that supposedly tied up all the loose ends the series left behind, and did so by giving Treize Kushrenada relatives we'd never heard mentioned in the course of the original series? Like his nephew/cousin/whatever, the "real" TROWA BARTON, and his super annoying daughter, Mirimei. (Who's name is oddly similar to MINMEI... Hmm...) He had her when he was what, 12 years old? Toss in Mirimei's troops who wear McDonald's uniforms, Zech's "great" codename, "Wind", flashbacks that don't really explain anything, and an overall main plot that just well, doesn't make any sense... Oh well, on the upsides....

I'll give them credit for the few good points the movie had. The redesigned Gundams, despite playing a small role, all looked quite cool. Cool enough to sell a ton of those expensive 40 dollar model kits I'm sure... They dubbed a couple of lines that weren't in the original that explained things a bit better, and seeing Heero smile was kinda fun. Duo all in all stole most of the movie since he had most of the good lines. The running gags with Duo, (not beeing able to self detonate Deathscythe, and being thrown into a closet) were fun, and where Relina slaps Mirimei after Heero blows his Gundam up after just FIRING three times, were all good the first time around. Pity the movie lacked any sort of point, other than "lots of explosions are good"... ANd geeez, WHY did Mirimei have to be such a forced and stupid character with such an odd master plan? (The "real" version of Operation Meteor")... Oh well... We'll be getting the original series from the seventies this Spring. Pity for me I've already seen the whole thing...

(I think all in all, the biggest problem I have with the movie is that it came up with a lot of crucial plotpoints from NOWHERE, particularly the "original" Trowa, Mirimei, and the hwole "original" Operation Meteor plan, and had a lot of fairly silly elements to it. Perhaps if it had been led up to in the course of the original series, and had just been there at the end... I mean, it was only three episodes for crying out loud! And two episodes in the show were all flashback...)>

**END ENDLESS WALTZ SPOILERS**

Ah well, I did rather enjoy the Babylon 5, "In the Beginning" movie...

And has anyone seen the Cartoon Network commercials for the Superman cartoon? I think this proves the point, Cartoon Network does some of the freaking best commercials in the buisness. I've seen all the eps of the show multiple times and the CN previews STILL make me wanna see them. THAT'S good advertising.

SJ- I have my part of the RP up to a point where the ten saga can begin again in one post, I'm just waiting for you and Warpmind to get to a point where your current arc is done... So whenever you're ready, lemme know...

Gunjack- A typicla anime law... If a show has three or more shades for one color, it means they're spending WAY too much time on animation, generally to try and cover up the fact that the story lacks.

**RP HERE**

Jim and his driving intructor, Lonny, sit in the car as it wobbles on the side of a cliff. Beside them is Black Tiger and the Brain in another car, and a fellow in a little nash rambler. ALl are about to fall to a horrible death, as the fellow in the little nash rambler calls out.
"Hey, I might know a way out of this!" EVeryone stares as the recognize the voice belonging to... Steve Irwin, Crocodile Hunter.
"STEVE!" Jim calls out. "Haven't seen you in a while!"
Black Tiger just sighs. "Well, this DOES explain why he was able to keep pace. He's insane enough to do 120 in second gear..."
Steve calls out. "Maybe if we get out of our vehicles, and climb this sheer cliff with no equipment at all, we can get out of this alive!"
There is general agreement among the group, and they precariously get out of their cars. Jim lets Lonny get out of the car first. Black Tiger and the Brain are fine, as is Steve Irwin. Jim opens up the driver's side door on his car, and then his cars falls forward, with Jim still in it.
Everyone watches as Jim falls thousands of miles into the ground. Even from their vantage point, everyone else can see the explosion that results below. Black Tiger looks up the cliff, and starts trying to find a way up.
Lonny's mouth gapes at that. "Aren't you going to try and help him?"
"Nah, he's my dad. He'll be okay. Falling a few thousand miles into the ground in an exploding car won't faze him for long."
Suddenly, both of the remaining cars fall off the precipice. One is at an odd angle, and goes in a completley different direction than the nash rambler. The rambler however, lands on the EXACT spot Jim's car with Jim hit, and explodes.
Black Tiger blinks. "However, an explosion on top of an explosion might just hurt a little..."

Robby
Saturday, November 11, 2000 12:41:09 AM
IP: spider-tr081.proxy.aol.com

**The Election that will never end, cont.***

Well, the 1st of what I'm sure will be a billion recounts in Florida is over, and Bush remains with the slightest of leads. A little over 300 votes. Of course, that said, their are Democrats which now want a hand count, at least in certain counties. Because counting things by hand can be just so more accurate. No chance of human error there.

And then came word at around midday that New Mexico, which was previously awarded to Gore, has been taken away from him and also declared "too close to call" because at the end of the tally, Gore only led Bush by 100+ votes. And they say that some 250 ballot boxes are missing in the state, boxes from regions that are predominantly Republican. If these boxes are found, and the votes favor Bush, he may wind up winning the state.

Ladies and Gentlemen, get out your raincoats, because at this point I think both Al Gore and George Bush have whipped out their tricks and are gearing up for one big pissing contest.

This is insane. Look, call this a partisan reaction if you want, but here's how I feel, honestly: You wanted a recounte, you got one. Now, you wait till next week, and finish counting the absentee ballots. Tally up those votes, add them to the votes already done in the recount, and whomever wins the vote in Florida, that's your new guy. The loser should then concede. I don't care whether it's Al Gore or George Bush. Just end it. I don't want this to end up in court, because not only do I not feel that's entirely democratic, but most importantly if it goes to that I will legitimately feel like I should have never voted, because ultimately my vote meant dick.

I'm sorry that 19,000 people screwed up their ballots. I really am, because if they had not, Gore would have probably won, and at least this would all be over with. But they screwed up. You don't vote twice and get away with it. I'm sorry, but tough titties.

I would think that the tide is turning against a legal battle. I've watched some of the political shows today, and some *Democrats* are asking that there be no legal battle. I personally think that, after another week of this nonsense, people will be ready for it all to end, and will be calling for a victor. I hope so.
*** END ELECTION COVERAGE. NOW IF ONLY THE ELECTION WOULD END...*****

Bush: This is the greatest fallacy of the campaign, that Bush is an idiot. He's not. I hate to tear down any partisan beliefs, but he's not a moron. Voting twice on the same ballot--that's idiotic. Bush has graduated from Yale and has a master's degree. I doubt his daddy bought him both of those diplomas. Gore, on the other hand, flunked out of divinity school and never completed his law degree, but of course you never anyone ever mention that. Bush's problem is that he just can't speak well. He's not good at oral like Bill.....I mean good at orating....
Whether Bush is smarter than Gore, I don't know. I personally doubt that if one is smarter than the other, it's not by 100 freaking IQ points. I personally think both men are relatively intelligent. Just boring as hell.

Greg: Now, if you say you question everything, you have to question your own beliefs as well. You have to be willing to look at your own beliefs and say "maybe their is a God after all". If you truly question everything, you'd look at atheism with the same critical eye as you do religion.

Warpmind: I'm gonna RP soon....hopefully tomorrow. I've been real busy lately in RL, and have sort of been thinking of things to do in the library. :)
And even though I've been slow with my RPing, I would like to maybe get to the Ten stuff before too much longer.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Friday, November 10, 2000 11:45:05 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Hey Guys! How is everyone?
<Emambu> I'll be sending you the future tense episode in a few days! Hope you like it!

<Winterwolf> Hey where have ya been?
<Bronx> =) Hi!!!!!!!!!!!!! Long time no see!

<Question>
Does anyone here at TGS know when you're going to start New Olympians, Bad Guys, or Gargoyles 2198? I know you started out some of it in Timedancer but...
Thanks for you time!
Buh-Bye

Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 10, 2000 11:04:41 PM
IP: 216.117.75.152

Gunjack> Ah the big question. Do I believe in one absolute truth? No, because the truth changes depending on your point of view. For example, Christopher Columbus is looked at as a heroic explorer who discovered the New World. But the Native Americans see/saw him as an evil butcher who enslaved and massacred their people and led more Europeans to do the same thing. Which is the truth, it depends on your POV. I question everything and look at everything from all sides, I learned it from Socrates, whom happens to be one of my favorite phylosophers. I questioned religion, and I don't think any one religion takes more presedence over another, whether it's Judeism, Buddhism, Christianity, Wiccan, Paganism. If I say that Promethius brought man fire, am I wrong? If I say Muhammed recieved the vision of Islam from Allah am I right? It all depends on your point of view. A Muslim will believe that Muhammed was the Prophet of God, a few rare people today may believe that Zeus rules the universe from Mount Olympus, and a Christian will believe that Jesus was the one true son of God. You can't say who's right. I don't believe any of them are personally, and my beliefs cannot take precendence over yours, but nor can yours take precedence over mine. Which is exactly why a nation like the United States must keep Church and State separate, because there are so many religions practaced in this country and they should not play favorites among them. Individuals can make decisions for themselves, but they cannot make decisions for others. We all have our own interpretations on what the truth is. There is no absolute truth.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 10, 2000 10:59:51 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

Gside> you left part out. In the version I read, the student went on to answer the question thusly (I'm paraphrasing):

Since the last girl I asked out said she would go out with me on "a cold day in hell" and I still haven't gone out with her, we can conclude that Hell is not freezing over, therefore Hell is exothermic.

Religion Debate> I'm gonna have to step in here eventually. I sense an Obnoxiously Long Post in the future, but maybe I'll regain my senses before I write it.

Election Hijinks> (sigh) Oh well, and I had such high hopes for this country. (not really. I'm totally cynical about everything.) I think that when all's said and done Bush will win, but this is so tawdry.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Friday, November 10, 2000 10:40:05 PM
IP: 198.215.20.220

Gunjack- No, modern authority doesn't have to prove itself, but only because it already has. Our government was created "In Congress" and "By the People." In essence, enough of our ancestors agreed to run the country this way, and gave the Federal government the authority to do what it has. Even anchient "Divine Right" Monarchies claimed that they were either a) Descended from God (or a god) or b) appointed by God (or a god). This gave them a "reason" for and "proof of" authority. There's also the fact that most ancient governments were ruled by the guy with the biggest sword. <or at least the biggest army>
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Friday, November 10, 2000 10:24:11 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Doug> <<every bone in Jammer's body has been broken at least once>>: Every major bone I could see, but I doubt the bones in his inner ear have been broken, nor many of his vertabre. And I think you really have to try hard to make sure you get all of the bones in your hands and feet.
<<review of 6th Day, Ah-nuld's latest action bash>>: Anyone else think this is Total Recall 2?
<<Thanks for the explanation of computer operation>>: Not a problem. I kept thinking I was getting too basic or too in depth. Is tere anything else you would like to know about?

Azarah> <<x=x>>: I think it works better if you start out with x=y, that way it isn't so obvious later that you are dividing by zero.

Winterwolf> <<Well if you ask me>>: I blame the baron for that mostly, he ponderded to me in IM one day, to which I claimed that I was patient. Apparently I'm not.

Gunjack> <<And to think, a few years ago I thought that no one would ever need that much memory>>: Well, you know that famous Bill Gates quote: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." Plus, Moore's law probably won't slow down too much.
<<Valentine's head explodes, showering the room with Kidney>>: Odd place to put a kidney.
<<No, but could you correct that? Starting with what "Exothermic" means?>>: To copy and paste:
Exothermic: a. marked by production of heat (my words: It goes boom and singes the hairs on your hand; Endothermic is the opposite and is what happens in the reraction incide a cold pack).
The proof: A thermodynamics professor had written a take home exam for his graduate students.

It had one question:

Is hell exothermic or endothermic?
Support your answer with a proof.

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.
Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant.

So, if hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.

Of course, if hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.

Shadowrider> It's nice to hear that you are enjoying what you can.

Warpmind> <<THL is back up>>: It's up, it's down, it's up, it's down. Quite like a few of the characters.
<<such stuff is not really what you want to be ogling in an internet cafe, is it?>>: Not at all. Though it does depend on if you have no sense of shame.
<<installing cable in an apartment where I'll spend one more month after the installation is... a HUGE waste of money>>: You could try to get in one of those free instalation deals, and just have to pay for the subscription.

Gunjack: <<You MIGHT not have wanted to start with binary...>>: Calm down, it's just ones and zeros. Just be glad I didn't start counting in binary (one, ten, eleven, hundred, hundred one, hundred ten, hundred eleven, thousand, thousand one, thousand ten, thousand eleven, thousand hundred, thousand hundred one, thousand hundred ten, thousand hundred eleven, ten thousand...). And besides, binary isn't that bad. It's the flipflops, busses and microcode that's annoying.
<<Is there a way to transfer the RPG to someone else?>>: I've heard of a device called a DexDrive, and supposedly RPGamer.com will be archiving submitted RPGs.
<<in the implosion stage, can the gravity causing the implosion reverse entropy?>>: Depends on the mass of the universe. We're not quite sure yet.
<<Both the God of the Bible and I identify ourselves as male>>: I thought they found a couple female prepositions/declensions/conjugations/whatever in the early books.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Friday, November 10, 2000 09:53:30 PM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

*Valentine strolls in, looking well rested but annoyed*

Good news: I got enough sleep last night, despite being kept awake by the dog and my imagination till 4:00 AM.
Bad news: The reason I got enough sleep is that I slept in till 1:20 this afternoon. I really hate it when that happens... :P

*Political Stuff* - I noticed a bunch of people talking about how immature all this recount/court challenge stuff is. To be sure, the partisan side of me wishes that they could have left Bush's victory well enough alone, but I'm gonna be honest. If Gore had won Florida by such a narrow margin, I would have killed for a recount. It's the only honest thing to do, and considering the 20,000 ballots still on their way from overseas, none of it really makes any difference. We won't know for a week yet anyway, so why not use the time to (quietly) make sure who really won what? My only complaint is the constant reminders the media is giving us. My method is to sit down, get back to my other business, and put the whole thing out of my mind 'till they find the real answer.

Shadowrider - YO!!! How's it going, 'Mano!? I can't believe we're finally in here at the same time. :D <<How are you all doing? And, BTW, who's the president of America?>> We're debating, and no one knows. *shrugs* On the upside, we've got a beutiful exapmle of exactly why individual votes count... :)

K. Snarf><<This is why I think individual voting doesn't matter.>> With the current election apparently riding on 200 votes (probably less by now), would you care to change your opinion? :) <<City and state elections are far more important to your day-to-day life.>> *CoughSupremecourtCough*

Greg><<Florida is being recounted, and with luck the bumbling idiot who does not know Yugoslavia from China will lose.>> ...To be replaced with the bumbling idiot who didn't recognize busts of Washington, Jefferson, and the other founding fathers. :P ...Out of curiousity, why is it that everyone assumes Bush is an idiot? o_O

Mara><<You know what I regret? I regret that four years ago, when Bob Dole was running he didn't show one iota of his spark, wit and incredible intelligence.>> o_O ...What!?? People are actually WISHING that they could have Dole back? I've got nothing against Mr. Dole, but wasn't this the guy that everyone crucified as a loser four years ago? Have I missed something about Bush? Did he grow a third eye while I wasn't looking?
<<and for you folks who are celebrating early, need I remind you of another presidental race where a certain paper had given the wrong information when it jumped to conclusions?>> Talk about calling 'em... :P

Entity><<Guess I won't bother continuing to watch this one. *sigh* I can see lack of story or character quality.>> Does it lack these two? Darn... What a waste. :( <<We're about to enter an age of darkness, a world of fear, where superstition and the sword will rule... all because of that dumb College!>> At least I'll get some use out of all those weapons I've been stockpiling... :)
<<*raises eyebrow* This is your first election too?>> O_o ...Uh, yeah. Why? <<Tell me about it. I think I'd vote for the guy if he ran today, just based on his "Daily Show" appearences!>> This is the curse of not owning a working TV... :P
<<But the number of electoral votes a state gets is based on its size, so either way, smaller states are in the same position.>> Size as in area, or size as in population? <<Is everyone who was a part of that administration just marked for life now because of one horny Arkansanian?>> Considering that both Gore and Hillary whored themselves to keep Clinton in the saddle, I'd say yes. IMO, both of then have shown themselves willing to do or say ANYTHING to get what they want...
Besides, Hillary's always struck me as a witch-with-a-B... :P <<But if Bush wins... I'm sorry, but right now they're nullifyng _19,000_ ballots because of that Gore/Buchanan confusion.>> So do you support a revote?
<<Life imprisonment is more cost-effective.>> If so, there's still the question of deterence. <<How is pure democracy a bad thing?>> Pure democracy states that the majority wins. The problem is, there are no restriction on who votes or on what. Example: A predominately male university could vote for banning females from wearing clothes on campus, and in a pure democracy, that would be that.
<<By having individual states differ, it strikes me as counter-productive to social integration.>> But diversity is GOOD! ;) ...Also, the seperation of the states creates a firebreak. For example, let's say that gun control actually does promote crime. If guns are banned in one state and not in another, we'll be able to compare the results and make a logical decision. But if guns are banned in ALL the states, we have no evidence for comparison...
<<But those stunningly well-laid-out logical arguments are so fun!>> I'm glad someone else thinks so! :D
<<It's because you're a Texan.>> Heh. I'm originaly from NY, but I love it here (except for the weather)! The whole poulation has an unbelievably cocky attitude of "I am Texan, hear me ROAR"! You shoulda been there for the three way arguement me and some college students had about whether or not Texas xould whip the rest of the US in a civil war... o_O I narrowly avoided a lynching for my "traitorous idiocy", and only came off that easy by shouting "Remember the Alamo"... ;)

*Valentine leaves momentarily for lunch, and returns looking confused*
What does it mean when the INSIDE of an apple is bright red? I'm eating 'em anyway, so if I shrivel up or turn into a demon from the DoP, you'll know... :P

Green Baron><<Warning: Mildly offensive language and violence that may offend bleeding-heart pinko liberals...>> Especially since it's DIRECTED at bleeding-heart pinko liberals... ;) <<When you hear about all the dead people who vote, I think it's time one was finally elected :)>> Ooo, good one! :D <<Also, Gephardt will be the one to educate Carnahna's widow on politics...>> Wow, time out. They're actually letting her serve in her husbands place!?? That's INSANE! O_O ...Is there a precedent or something?

SJ><<NO COURTS. No lawyers.>> I haven't minded all the wrangling, but I agree about this. Bringing courts and lawyers into the election completely destroys any semblence of democracy... :P <<I'm sure Gunjack could make some sort of logical conclusion to all this.>> Heh. Are my ears growing pointy yet? ;)

Gside><<Let's see if I can clarify anything.>> You MIGHT not have wanted to start with binary... <> Me too. :)

Doug><<Now I got Kit glaring at me a lot and asking when we're gonna be married.>> I'd suggest running away very fast (we bachelors have to stick together), but she IS an ex-biker... ;) <<I've had an idea for a fantasy RPG set in modern New York with elements from Eternal Quest that I've wanted to try putting onto chips for some time now.>> Cool idea! Is there a way to transfer the RPG to someone else?
<<Have you read Tom Clancy's Sum of All Fears?>> I could read that whole book over again just for the Liz Elliot/Cathy Ryan plotline... Truly great fiction. <<Or reread. :)>> Repeatedly. :D

Warpmind><<Well, there's a LOT of dust at work... I've got shrapnel in organs nature never intended be exposed to air... :(>> *Valentine tosses him a flagon of Cyliborne Ale* ...Gotta have something to cut the dust! ;) <<because last time I danced, the end result was a broken toe and a dislocated finger. Neither of which were mine...>> o_O Whoa... Break dancing or waltze? <<Well, zoogs are... small, furry, and only found in Lovecraft's Dreamlands...>> *Grabs a CAWS, and starts looking nervous* You guys haven't brought any in here... have you? o_O
<<By the way... didn't someone comment earlier that "with these candidates, this will be the most BORING election in history"?>> Yet more proof that fate has a sense of humor... :) <<it's the Devil's choice, really, but it's one that can't be eluded...>> Too true... <<Of course, I'm not saying I'm completely against killing in any and all cases, right?>> *Reaches into his coat to pat the Op Special* Heh. ;)

-Religion Stuff-

Entity><> I was refering to SOCIAL chaos, but this question's a fun one... <<Just because the universe has electrons spinning around nuclei and planets spinning around suns, that means there's a blueprint to existence?>> The basic framework of the Universe is an orderly system for producing chaos, not a chaotic system that occasionally produces order. For example... <<What about pouring out a bag of marbles? Don't the marbles roll outward in a pattern? Yet was the spill planned out?>> ... we notice, upon performing this expirement, that the marbles never seem to fall *UP*. :) The randomness evident in the universe is a result of the interaction of the orderly framework, not an indication of the framework's randomness.
<<The belief that works for me right now is the Big Bang. Laugh it off, but an expanding/retracting universe theory makes sense to me.>> To my (limited) understanding of physics, this matches the evidence we have. One question though: in the implosion stage, can the gravity causing the implosion reverse entropy? In other words, does it reclaim all the energy radiated away by the various cosmic events during the expansion? If not, then this theory does nothing to answer the "Prime Cause" question.
<<This used to be my pillar of philosophy. It's thawed a little over time, though, so that I now recognize while a lot of emotion is superfluous and irrational, there is some that is worth taking into account.>> Hmm. Interesting thought... Which would you say the positive emotions are? Of the top of my head, I'd say Doubt heads the list... <<...Until the provocativeness of the question wears off and the familiarity of that which you study re-asserts its hold, like a warm, fuzzy blanket wrapping you back up.>> *Shudders* ...If you see that happening, feel free to pull a Lucy. <<That's a bit of a long-shot, don't you think?>> Not really. Which is more efficient: to take subtle, deniable steps to make sure your word stays intact, or to do everything over again every few thousand years? As for our conscience being the true record of God's will, How can it record God's will any more accurately than paper? It's an emotion (and primarily a negative one at that), and as such is rather non-specific. To borrow a phrase from an earlier arguement, it'd be something like converting Shakespeare into a street mime performance; something *will* be lost in translation...
<<<<That's fair. But is punishing them for it also fair?>> I don't know. Let's see:
Premise #1 - God's nature demands that he seperate himself from Sin.
Premise #2 - The only way path of redemption is through Jesus(as stated in the Bible).
Premise #3 - All choices made in this life are eternal in nature (also stated in the Bible)
Given these three, can you see any options left other than eternal seperation? <<How's that? I'd love to hear more on this.>> I'll tag the abrieviated version on at the end of the post. :)
<<"It's not your lot to question my orders, cadet, just carry them out!">> Touche. :) ...However, which order of God's is so dangerous? All he asks is obidience, love, and faith... Hardly comparable to murder and death. <<UNcreate me. I don't want to be alive. But no, that's not an option, is it?>> *sighs* ...When I spend too long thinking about Hell and my own nature, I start wishing for that option too. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be in the cards.
<<Some guy could come to my door, flash me the sacred scriptures of the Great Cow Lord, Master of the Universe, and offer me the choice to follow him.>> I hope you hid the Whopper wrappers... ;)

Azreal><<First off, God DOES just want people to follow.>> I never said he didn't. I just said that following blindly is less than ideal; faith has to have roots, or it will be easily dried up. <<God is not "possessed of Perfect Love." He IS Perfect Love.>> That's what I meant. :P
<<God is not just.>> If this were true, why would he bother to redeem us? If he cared nothing for justice, he could just ignore our sins in the first place... <<In Justice, the authority has to prove its right to have that authority.>> Not really; does the government try to prove its right to authority when someone breaks the law?
<<Once, we've done that, our obligation to that person is done. It's their choice.>> Yet, given the stakes that we're playing for, why let them turn you away so easily? The apostles were beaten for teaching in Jerusalem, yet did that make them take their Truth elsewhere?
<> But if we can, then why shouldn't we? Or do you think that making a good arguement for the existence of God is impossible?

Greg><<Someone today asked me why I don't believe in her.>> ...Uh, *her*? Which God(dess) are *you* talking about? Both the God of the Bible and I identify ourselves as male; does this mean you'll be refering to *me* as a "she" soon? ;) <<Well, I BELONG TO NOBODY!>> ...In which case you can reject God, and He won't stop you from doing so. There's no reason to belive he'll excuse you from the consequences of your choice, but it is YOUR CHOICE. <<Religion was created as a means to control people...>> Riddle me this: the only reason to controling people is to get them to do what you want against their better judgement; usually, this involves persoanl benefit for the controller. Looking back at all accounts of the original christians (Let's leave the Catholic Church out of this for the time being), can you identify the controlers?
Jesus was gone one way or the other, so he wasn't in a position to be dipping into the collection plate. The apostles all ended up martyred one way or another, mostly in REALLY Wilekian ways, and we have no reason to believe they were living high on the horse either.
Also, you start talking about starting a religion for personal gain, consider the political attitude toward Christianity at the time. What payoff (other than Heaven) could possibly be good enough to risk ending up as a human torch at one of Nero's parties?
<<God/Allah/Jehova is just as legitimate as Ra, Zeus, Kali, Odin etc.>> So all religion is a lie. I'll get to my problem with this statement later, but for now, a primer: do YOU believe in Truth? :)
<> ...As long as we leave it at the door. Hmph.
<<And I hate the way they brainwash a lot of people...>> You say that religions brainwash. I am a devoted follower of Christianity, so if my religion brainwashes, I must either be a zombie, or I do not follow my religion, or your theory is wrong.
In any case, I would argue that "religious" leaders brainwash people, not the religions themselves.
<<...and don't get me started on the Holocaust.>> I've been trying my hardest to avoid mention of Hitler out of deference to Toku's "10 Commandments", but now that someone else has broken the ice...
To my understanding, Hitler and and his minions were Nihlists; and that's about as far from religion as you can get. Also, the Crusades and such are always the result of human leaders, NOT the basic religions themselves (I'm not sure how this applies to Islam; doesn't it mention Jihad as a good thing?).
<<And the Atheist in me can't help but question the motives of those who introduced religion centuries ago.>> I'd be fascinated to hear your answers, or even your theories. Throw down. :)

<> Could you be more specific? What are these "impositions" you refer to? And what are your conclusions on the motives of the founders?
<<But I know none of you in here would want to do that ;)>> Sadly, you are mistaken. I DEFINATELY want to do that, because I believe it to be the Truth. My understanding of reality leaves me no other choice.
<<That is a decision and a view point you can have for yourself. But I do not think you can make that decision for others.>> Your mistake is in assuming that reality is something that can be changed by a "decision". If a "fetus" is human life, then abortion is murder; if it is not, then abortion is not. But whether or not a "fetus" is human life is a question about what IS, and not a matter of opinion.
<> I, for one, am unoffendable. :)

-The God/Truth Connection-
Premise #1 - There is absolute Moral Truth of some kind.
Premise #2 - IF #1 is true, then there must be an authority that decides Truth.
Conclusion - Since Nature is moraly neutral, and man lacks the nescessary authority, then there must be SOME form of Diety.

-End Religious Comments-

That's it for today... I've spent seven hours writing this, so it's time to let someone else have a turn. :)
See y'all tomorrow... :)

Just for a moment I was back at school,
And felt that old familiar pain...
And as I turned to make my way back home,
The snow turned into rain...
-Dan Fogelberg "Same Auld Lang Syne"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 10, 2000 08:44:43 PM
IP: dialup-209.245.225.121.dallas1.level3.net

<backwards law that states a person cannot vote (at least in Hillsborough County) without a voter's registration card.> I don't know how intrested you are at this point, but Federal Law (supercedeing any state or local laws) states if you're registered to vote, you can vote, regardless of having your card. It's called contest voting, with what's going on right now, you could probably even contact the local Democratic or Republican offices and they'd tell you if you can still vote. I don't know one way or the other at this point, though. That's just a little FYI from somebody who knows too much about stuff that doesn't matter.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Friday, November 10, 2000 03:28:12 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Actually, Xena... and this is embarassing as it stands, but I didn't vote in the Florida elections either. Mostly due to a backwards law that states a person cannot vote (at least in Hillsborough County) without a voter's registration card. I lost mine some weeks ago, and therefore I got turned away from the polls when I went to vote...

Such is life in America...

Stephen R. Sobotka, Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL, USA
Friday, November 10, 2000 03:04:01 PM
IP: 24129160hfc75.tampabay.rr.com

*XenaTrek sneaks in looking about, steps to the podium and speaks into the microphone*

*ahem* Just wanted to let every know that I have nothing to do with the Florida recount. According to the election office, I am still registered with Precinct 13, District 8, Ingham County, Michigan.

*steps off the podium*

Just wanted to share that cuz on another 'room' ... er... messageboard, people assumed that I am a Floridian voter, when in fact I am still a Michigander voter. I am very unhappy that Stabenow won the senate seat, but am very glad I don't have to tolerate her cuz I'm down in Florida. :)

*waves hi to GB, Spacebabie, Aaron, Mara, Winterwolf, Rene (sorry can't remember what your handle is), Stephen Jr, Bronx, and uh... to everyone else! *smiles*

Gotta run.
*exits quietly*
XenaTrek - [ellislis@yahoo.com]
Orlando, FL
Friday, November 10, 2000 01:40:25 PM
IP: proxy2a.lmco.com

*Warpmind enters, coughing up small splinters of wood and aluminum.*
Well, there's a LOT of dust at work... I've got shrapnel in organs nature never intended be exposed to air... :(

Mara: You now officially take commissions? Hmmm... *Ponder* Since I'm not a US citizen, will you e-mail me with a suggestion for payment method?

Lynati: Heh, to be honest, I'm not likely to ask you to dance with me at G'01, anyway... because last time I danced, the end result was a broken toe and a dislocated finger. Neither of which were mine... (In other words, I'm an utter dunce on the dance floor. Luckily, the poor lass I tried to dance with forgave me...)

Wilek: Well, zoogs are... small, furry, and only found in Lovecraft's Dreamlands... dig? ]:) As for those characters you want for CoC rules... I could try the CoC version; the WoD rules, ask someone else... :|

Lady Corax: The party where Britney Spears got drunk was in Germany. As I recall, the legal age for drinking there is 16, maybe 18 (I'm not 100% certain about that, but it's down there...), but the REAL question is: Why did she later say "I never get hangovers"? That, according to a more recent article I read, was her exact phrase, and if she knows she never gets them... damn, but how much DOES she drink? ]:)

Kit: I'm already in the new place - cozy, just the right size, and it's got EXCELLENT heating! :)

By the way... I sent in a submission for a campaign to Chaosium (my second attempt). It got shot down in flames. But, it was shot down *politely*. :| Oh, well, on the bright side, I'll have more spare time... :|

This election frenzy that seemed to strike this place the other day... it's such fun to sit on this side of the Atlantic, and know it doesn't MATTER to me who wins the election. ]:) With such a small difference, I hear it'll still be over a week until the result is certain. Such fun it'll be to watch this room turn more and more frenzied over this debate... ]:) By the way... didn't someone comment earlier that "with these candidates, this will be the most BORING election in history"? ];)

Gside: THL is back up? Just my luck... such stuff is not really what you want to be ogling in an internet cafe, is it? :( (Correction: It's not what you want to be CAUGHT ogling etc.)

Mary: Your foot's *that* bad? Awww... :( *Sends positive vibes your way.*

Doug: I'll RP as soon as SJ RPs. I'm kinda waiting for his move now. ]:) (But I'm unlikely to get my own access before January - I won't know if I'm going to live here for a prolonged period before then, and installing cable in an apartment where I'll spend one more month after the installation is... a HUGE waste of money, don'cha think?)

Gunjack Valentine: Of course it's murder. But, if it a choice between saving a full-fledged life, and one that, by itself, is incapable of self-sustainment, well... it's the Devil's choice, really, but it's one that can't be eluded... Of course, I'm not saying I'm completely against killing in any and all cases, right? ];)

Well, that seems to be it for today... Ciao, gang... and welcome back, Shadowrider. :)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, November 10, 2000 12:38:20 PM
IP: hume.ti.telenor.net

Hi to everyone!
Well...I can't say how beautiful is to be here again, even just for a weekend! I'm having quite a fun in my service (it is hard, don't misunderstand me, and there have been some problems recently, but in complex I'm liking it), but I always enjoy to be here. So, what's new around? How are you all doing? And, BTW, who's the president of America? ;) I'll try to read through the last weeks' CRs and post something more after that.
See you all later!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Friday, November 10, 2000 12:30:28 PM
IP: h213-18-216.mi2.albacom.net

The first Winterwolf reply is indeed for Winterwitch. Should have caught that. :(
Doug
Friday, November 10, 2000 10:15:33 AM
IP: pool-63.52.171.120.dlls.grid.net

Sorry for the 2x post

POLITICS

Sevarius Jr> You know what, earlier today I was agreeing that they should re-vote, but after reading your post. I agree with you 100%. I do hope this just ends. I'm sick of it.

Though if Bush wins, he's going to have a difficult four years. He didn't win the popular vote, and with this whole thing in Florida there's going to be a lot of distrust towards him. Not to mention a split Congress to deal with.

As for Bill Clinton, if he were allowed to run for a third term and did, I honestly would have voted for him. I don't think he was a bad President at all. The economy is doing great after all. Unemployment is at an all time low, and his foreign policy was great. Say what you will about him as a person, but as a President he was great. He kept me entertained for eight years ;)
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 10, 2000 08:37:33 AM
IP: 166.109.2.138

Sevarius Jr> Well as I mentioned, I'm often not sure what I think of religion. If it helps people and does good, GREAT. But when I hear about crimes being commited for it in the Middle East, Yugoslavia and other parts of the world, I think people are taking it much too seriously. And I always become angered when I read a history book and read about people being burned at the stake, the church selling "forgiveness" for sins, and holy war after holy war. And I did not say that anyone was brainwashed, but there are still people out there who are, like that little girl who said that "all her friends were followers of Satan and they're going to Hell" because her parents told her that, and the people who commit Jihad in the world, and don't get me started on the Holocaust. And the Atheist in me can't help but question the motives of those who introduced religion centuries ago. I'm sure that if Jesus Christ came back and saw half the things commited in his name he would be ashamed.

But a lot of good comes from it to (I bet you thought I'd forget the good), religious organizations run hospitals, orphanages and do a lot to help. If I recall correctly it was a Reverend who flew to meet Slobodon Milosevic and convinced him to release the American troops he captured back during the Kosovo incident. And belief in God does often give people the strength to go on in hard times, even though I'm a non-believer, I appreciate and respect this.

I guess what it all comes down to is that there are a lot of @$$holes who take religion much too seriously and use it justify their crimes. Get rid of everything in the above paragraph and things would be much better. I have no problem with people being a little religious. Some good friends of mine are religious ::smiles at the room::. I hope I make a little more sense now.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky
Friday, November 10, 2000 08:23:11 AM
IP: 166.109.2.138

DOUG - Ah, the issue over who Mordred's mother was. The notion that it was Morgan le Fay makes a certain amount of sense (they're both traditional adversaries of Arthur, and it also simplifies things a bit), but when we first set up "Pendragon", we were seeking to follow the original sources as closely as we could (while still keeping things compatible with "Gargoyles" and the ramifications of its universe), so we went for Morgause as Mordred's mother instead, which she is in Malory. I hope that that hasn't upset you too much.

Oh, and thanks for correcting me about Ben.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, November 10, 2000 07:00:39 AM
IP: 216.87.46.193.dialup-stl.primary.net

*Valentine enters carrying a slew of steaming mugs, all filled with hot chocolate*

It's cold outside in Texas, which must mean it's freezing where the rest of you poor souls live... ;D Drink up! It's good for what ails you!

*Sets the tray down on his desk, and absent-mindedly shoots DC through the cerebellum with a sleeve pistol*
That's for screwing over ALL THREE of my ISPs simultaniously. You suck.

Tonight, I got to go see the Russian Ballet perform "The Nutcracker". *Looks at last sentence* ...That sounds REALLY bad... :P In any case, it kinda sucked. Two hours of cramped seating to watch a mob of people in tights invade each other's personal space... But I got a cool story idea out of a bit of it, so what the heck.
Besides, on a dark, cold texas night, I got to ride in the bed of a truck for thirty minutes. I was bundeled up in two sleeping bags and a pair of jackets, so it was kinda like a sliegh ride, in reverse, without the riendeer. :)
Besides having my net connections permanently screwed over, On the downside, I started reading Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" yesterday. Anyone here read it? If not, look it up as an excellent example of how NOT to construct a logical critique of religion. I'm reading it through for entertainment value, and am planning on writing a paper on his mistakes as soon as I can sift through the pile to identify the really major ones. People actually took this guy seriously?
Oh, and before I forget: does anyone know where I can find a tape of the english release of "Princess Mononoke (sp)"? I've been waiting for it on vidio for about a year now, but I haven't seen it anywhere yet... :P

On to replies!

Infinity><<Be a welcome change to have a giant robot as president.>> At least we wouldn't have to worry about assasination... :) <<Imagine the campaign tactics he might use.>> What? High explosives and laser cannons?

Gside><> But are they from the same generations? That's the question... :) <> InDEED! That's one of my all-time favorites, by the way... :) The scary part is, Roland keeps showing up in my various stories and RPGs... He's grown into an archtypal good guy for me. <<With or without the round clip?>> Drum clip, straight forend... and possibly a suppressor. It *was* late-sixties era guerrilla warfare, after all... :D <> *weeps at the thought of his weak 6.5 gig HD* ...And to think, a few years ago I thought that no one would ever need that much memory... :P <> I HATE you... :P <<Shame, that.>> Amen. To slack is human; to game is DIVINE. <> I agree that it can be rationalized that way, but I still seriously doubt Darwin. <<The the, and there is no second error?>> Thinking about this makes my head hurt; if there isn't an error, then there is, then there isn't, then there is, then... *Valentine's head explodes, showering the room with Kidney* Ooog.... ;O <<Has everyone seen the proof that Hell is exothermic?>> No, but could you correct that? Starting with what "Exothermic" means? o_O

Warpmind><<...and this is new how?>> Ouch! ;) ...Though it IS a good idea, generally speaking, to cut down on that sort of thing... <<...but if the choice is between saving a pregnant woman, and saving her child at the expense of the woman's life... I'll vote for saving the woman.>> I agree, but the difference between my position and that of the Pro-choicers is that I still think it's murder. I simply say it's better to stop one life and save another than to let BOTH end from lack of action...

Robby><<Blue SUb 6 is NOT an anime known for quality, just good animation.>> I saw (but couldn't hear; we were at CiCi's) an episode of this today... Isn't it that good? If not, they wasted some SERIOUS skill. My eyes were bugging out of my head at some of those shots, and you juscan't beat high framerate anime... 8D

Green Baron><<As for abortion, Gore can repeat his mantra all he wants to scare people, but nothing will ever be done to really change the laws, which won't be altered a few year's later.>> Don't look now, but there's this thing called the Supreme Court... <<It's funny that the two most outspoken liberals pose as Xanatos.>> Heh. And they say WE'RE the Evil Party... <<If one religion is truly right and all others wrong, I imagine the worst penalty will be a few extra decades in Purgatory, which I believe in and I believe Purgatory is why we all won't automatically go to Hell.>> Out of curiousity, where do you get the concept of Purgatory from, anyway? <<When he created his new religion (in itself an act of hubris)...>> Is it an act of Hubris to state that a group is not following its own beliefs?

Lynati><<"...They hurt me today, with their words, their mocking.
So I put the word "CRUEL" where I am not likely to forget it.
Now, each step I take reminds me that these are not my friends.
Each step, telling me I owe them nothing...">> ...Wow! Cool quote! where from? o_O

Wilek><<Hmm...maybe he can do the same with a few characters of mine that I can't figure out how to do with World Of Darkness or Call Of Cthulhu rules? :)>> Happily... :) Send 'em over anytime... <<Haven't played it, but it seems to involve giant robots and theological intrigue (I think), and I'm into such things.>> ...*theological* intrigue? What the heck does that mean? *Gods* plotting against each other? o_O ...Cool! 8D <<OOoh...I'll have to remember that.>> Remember, it's only to be used when in Anime Mode... <<Ohh, if only I could locate a screenshot...>> I have... I got halfway through the Garden fight before I had to give the game back to the friend who loaned it to me. I still say the soldiers should have stayed in their suits while assaulting, instead of just using them as transport... <<Are you at all psionically enabled?>> Haven't played a Psi yet, but I DO have a rather interesting gameworld called "Psihunters" that I've got sitting on a shelf... <<Because that's how I plan to off a few characters in my fics. ;)>> C'mon, just use explosives... or better yet, use a good wiresaw garrote. My second favorite weapon... ;) <<Really? Hm...maybe it's easier than it looks...>> Well, yes and no. I've discovered, since that post, that Milkshape has some REALLY interesting quirks that can make your life Hell... <<<blink> Are we both still talking about Quake 3?>> Yup. ;D ...Well, the same engine, at any rate. Since that post, I've added three more TCs to the stack (a Road Waffles-style shootemup, a steampunk/horror weastern, and a nifty little steampunk/arabian nights bit that I started work on tonight... My main complaint so far is that the engine won't allow anime cutscenes ala "Lunar"...
Yes, it'll be years before I actually start working on getting any of these out, but at least I'm working on learning the skills...:P
<<Vivi is basically a slight redesign of the Black Mage from FF1.>> COOL! The black mage rocks my world... :D <<So...puns aren't expected to be logical?>> Depends on your definition of logic. :P <<What system is it for?>> I *think* it was either Sega Saturn or Jaguar... It sure as heck wasn't PS or N64, at any rate... <<It's not freeware...?>> The download is, but after a month you can't save any more... <> *Valentine laughs his rear off* <<What's really pathetic is that I'll probably own a PS2 someday, when the price has gone down (a LOT) and there are actually decent games for it (probably Final Fantasy 10 and little else)...>> You forgot MGS2... despite Snake's haircut, I'd gladly kill for that game! :D <<Huh? What's to enjoy about a catfight?>> *Twitch, twitch* O_o ...wow. Guys, we need to give Wilek here an... Education. ;D <> Lemme get this straight... you guys are *complaining* that good games cost less than crappy ones!?? What's wrong with you? CASH IN! :D

****Religion Stuff****

Azreal - Sorry for not replying to you sooner, but I've been busy. :P <<We can be reasonable in faith...>> Interesting distinction. *thinks a bit* ...Wouldn't you agree that faith and reason should go hand in hand? If God didn't want us to use reason in our pursuit of him, why bother to leave logical evidence? <<...but it makes no "sense" to allow the rest of the world to persecute us, and yet thats what the Bible tells us to do.>> Actually, from a Christian's point of view, it makes sense on several levels.
First, if someone kills me, I lose nothing; I'm in Heaven, and that's all she wrote. In addition, the willingness to accept death on account of your beliefs is a powerful statement, but the effect is greatly weakened if the martyr is an irrational fanatic. For an example, look to Stephen's defense and stoning in Acts; notice the heavy relience on reasoned thinking and facts?
<<Once we have faith we can find reasonable arguments for it, but ultimately, I don't care what "evidence" you point to to the contrary, my answer can always be, "So, what if God just put that there to keep us guessing?">> This statement is the closest aproximation I can think of to "Christian Nihlism". In short, you are saying that there is no such thing as logical evidence ANYWHERE in the universe. I cannot think of a workable refutation off the top of my head, except to point out that this statement could be used to justify ANY belief, no matter how outlandish or barbaric. Furthermore, it excludes you from any meaningful examination or comparison of beliefs.
<<Job remained faithful. "Naked I came into the world," he said, "and Nake I shall depart.">> Actually, it does. Job is simply recognizing that everything in this life ends eventually, but that the Lord is eternal. <<Job's Wife "Curse God and Die": Had to bear 10 more children. Ladies, tell me that wouldn't hurt.>> Heh. ;D <<

Azarah><> I agree about Darwin, but Creationism, to my understanding, DOES fit all evidence we have of the origins of Life, the Universe, and Everything... <<If I see some cold hard evidence, then.. maybe, but as it has been said, this is all about faith and not about proof.>> Stick around. :) ...Sooner or later, someone's gonna break out Darwin, and I'll have to break out Behe, and the fun'll REALLY begin! <> Does it help any that it isn't me that's making the claim, it's my scripture? <<When I was 9, a girl in the schoolyard once ran from me because I didn't go to church and she said I was evil and would go to hell when I died.>> *spits in disgust* ...I *really* love it when people do that. Why is it that people always seem to approach the question of God by starting with Hell? ;P <<If God can't get his bum out of the cosmic easy chair and work a little to earn my respect, let alone my love, then frankly it'ssomething he doesn't deserve.>> To which I respond: Cration, Free Will, unbelievable faithfullness, and ultimately redemption. Tell me, what more do you want? <<There isn't really much evidence to prove the existence of God...>> Heh. We'll see... :D

*Valentine stops dead* ...whoa. I just realised something. I've been writing all these posts in defense of God... While listening to Metallica. Isn't that against the rules or something? ;D

Entity - I thought of a slightly more elegent way to settle your "Dark room" question. Instead of trying to find the specific right answer, why don't we eliminate the WRONG answers?
Statement: The God of the Bible exists.
So why doesn't he talk to us? Does he not care, or is he unable, or does he choose not to? If he didn't care, why did he send his son? If he is unable, how could he speak throughout the bible? If, as I suspect, he chooses to remain silent, is it for his benefit or for ours, or is there a third option? *pauses to hear replies.
<<So, if you don't believe in God, short of succeeding in brainwashing yourself, you're screwed...>> So it's impossible to change a belief? IMO, this is the kind of mess that people inevitably get into by argueing God's existence based on the concept of Hell. <<If God sends me to Hell for not believing in him, he's not really God...>> He doesn't. Going to Hell isn't a matter of God throwing you out of a plane, it's a matter of you jumping and refusing to use your parachute. <<No way I'm bowing to that.>> I disagree with your assesment, but an interesting philosophical question would be "why not"? Assuming that the being in question is omnipotent, what's there to gain by resisting?

*Looks at the clock, and winces*
I was hoping to get caught up tonight, but it's 2:33... I've gotta get to bed. :P Part 2 and political stuff tomorrow.

One, I love...
Two, she loves...
And three, she's true to me...
-Karen Casey, "One, I Love"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 10, 2000 03:37:37 AM
IP: dialup-209.245.226.187.dallas1.level3.net

Doug- I have in fact read Preacher, though not as much as I'd have liked; basically I've read the first tpb and the last 2 issues, and skimmed through the rest. Twisted stuff. If you like that, you should definitely read Ennis' Hitman series from DC.

Y'know, I'm kinda not surprised that this whole election's been so controversial. Bush Sr. has been involved in so much dirty business that I'm not surprised something like this happened. (Yes, I'm fairly well versed in conspiracy lore)
Matt "King Snarf" Maybray - [reginald_q_bumbershoot@hotmail.com]
Drexel Hill, PA, USA
Friday, November 10, 2000 03:30:08 AM
IP: a030-1308.phl2.splitrock.net

**Winterwolf steps in**

Feels like it's been a long time! Well no word yet on what the future holds exactly job wise but it should be interesting as it unfolds. I'm keeping this short as I've been operating on about 3 hours sleep a night and I could get more tonight... 4 maybe a little more. Winterwolf es loco en la cabeza! ^_^

Emambu> <scratches behind Winterwolf's ears> Now I feel like Joey after what happened between Joey and Ross on Friends! :P

Niamhgold> <send Shadowrider your regards> But of course! ^_^ <email> I've been swamped this week! It was just busy nothing to be worried or concerned about! ;) I plan on sending you and a few others some nice mail updates this weekend. I have plenty to tell you! ^_^ <cold> I realize it's been a while but I hope you get over it if you haven't already! Don't make me come all the way over to you with a big bowl of hot soup and my extremely deep nearly limitless reserves of attentiveness to make you comfortable and feeling better fast! I'll do it too if you aren't well by the weekend! :D

Hey Mara and Aaron! Long time no see!

Gside> <<Niamhgold> You know a couple people in here are curious as to what you look like> Well if you ask me I would tell you Niamhgold is extremely beautiful she is also extremely intelligent and exceptionally talented. Although I've never seen her I know she must have a radiant stunning beauty. That's because just from what I do know I've been taken aback by her! Niamhgold can entrance you solely with her presence. Plus her name should let you know that she's actually a goddess from the heavens! ;)

Wilek> I'll be sure to send some snow to your neck of the woods! Now it looks like we just need a crafty plan to eliminate indoor smoke from messing with our systems! I'm sure you have something in the works already! :)

Kit> Now you sound like you don't get a moment's rest! How do you manage? **hugs** Hang in there!

Courtney> Hi! Welcome to the CR! Enjoy your stay here! ^_^

Mary> Ouchie! Well at least you know and now it can heal properly! Get well soon!

Bronx> **hugz** Hope you get out of that job somehow!

Doug> I'm guessing the first Winterwolf reply is actually for Winterwitch. ;) Glad to here things are going well!

******WARNING - BFTS RP******

~~ Previously on BFTS ~~

DPH's car is climbing mount Cannon, when DPH asks, "I am going to order pizza for everyone. I'll take a Supreme Pizza. What toppings does everyone else prefer?

Jason replies, "I like Supreme. But which pizza place?"

DPH replies, "It is a special one on mount Cannon. We will stop there and pick up the pizza. No offense, Frost, but I think it would be best if we ate in a secluded area to avoid the surrounding people staring at you. Now, what toppings does everyone want?"

~~ In another place ~~

The gargoyle caped his wings and followed the humanoid wolf through the mirror.

Both of them were in some silvery haze and could see DPH's car going to the top of a mountain.

"We'll meet them at the top" Winterwolf says to Uriel.

~~ In the car ~~

"I like meat toppings! Pepperoni, beef, chicken and sausage" Frost announces.

"Well I like olives, mushrooms and peppers" Plastique says.

"You need spinach and pineapple for a good pizza. Extra cheese is a plus too!" Jason adds.

******END WARNING - BFTS RP******

RP> Will they be able to agree on common toppings? Stay tuned!

Good night! Sleep well!

**Winterwolf leaves after catching up**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Friday, November 10, 2000 03:08:05 AM
IP: 206.15.120.106

let's try that again...

Saw a post I couldn't resist

DPH> 1=2
let x=1
x=x

x2=x2 (where x2 means x squared that I can't write..)

x2-x2=x2-x2

x(x-x)=x+x(x-x)

x=x+x therefore 1=2..
that is my mathematical 0.02$ for today

Love,
Azarah...
Friday, November 10, 2000 02:55:35 AM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Hey all... saw a post I couldn't resist..

DPH>
Azarah
Friday, November 10, 2000 02:50:02 AM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Begin Part 2!

Wilek: Thanks for the permission, hope I know their new e-mail soon. Glad you liked Chuckie's Devils also. I'm planning to make them bosses in the New York Quest RPG videogame I described above. The Creepy Thin Man from the Charlie's Angels movie will definitely be one of the three, and Dennis Rodman will be another. Not sure who the third's gonna be, maybe a really snotty and egotistical Jackie Chan wannabe? That might be fun. Heheh. I agree with you on Playstation 2, though I'm still getting one eventually. Just hope they give us whatever version of it they have in Hong Kong someday, I heard PS2 was already outdated over there. Go figure. <shrugs>

**BUFFY, ANGEL SPOILERS**

Great developments in the new episodes of these shows this week. Buffy had some very good development on Dawn, Buffy, and Giles and their relationships. Liked especially Buffy revealing her memories of Dawn, and Giles' reaction to them. Anya as an enthusiastic cashier was also fun, as were the episode's Xander bits. Spike was once again hilarious and very entertaining, especially in the end confrontation scene. Still not too impressed with Glory- so that's her name!- but she was somewhat better in this episode than the previous one. Liked the KISS demons too, and the power Tara's spell gave them. The Tara and Willow developments in this episode were my favorite part of all. I liked Tara's family despite all the cliches in their characters and clapped and cheered a lot at the Scooby's confrontation with them. Tara's conflict with them was pretty chilling and well-written too, and I liked its final resolution. Don't get me wrong, I liked Willow and Oz a LOT, as much as anyone else here, but I've also accepted the fact they're over with thanks to the excellent episodes and development I've seen and while I hold many fond memories, I don't let them develop my enjoyment of Willow and Tara and their development. Which in this episode was great. And I like Tara as a character too, and enjoyed her development in this episode. And Willow's. Still don't think their relationship should be portrayed as perfect, and it's not, which is good. And hope we see Oz again someday. Someday. :) Didn't like the Riley developments in this episode, they were good in his conversation with Buffy but I didn't care for the implications of his scenes later on. Guess I'll have to see what's done with them. Glad Ben didn't get killed (he's not a demon either, Todd, that demon was in the hospital so we thought it would get him, and then Glory grabbed it- surprise!). Looking forward to all the flashbacks next week, and seeing how they impact events in the Buffy present. 9/10 to this week's ep.

Angel also gets 9/10. Many great developments on and lines from Cordelia and Gunn in this ep, and real nice developments with Angel dealing with his internal conflicts and getting the problems out. The fake swami was also a very entertaining character who had great interaction with Angel, wish we'd gotten to keep him around. The gang's reactions to Angel singing was also hilarious, especially Angel's reaction to not getting to sing. <grin> Liked the Wesley development most of all, good to see him dealing with impersonation and with a love interest who actually works for him. (IMO Cordelia didn't in Season 3.) Virginia made a great character too, was laughing and clapping at her virginity speech. The one downside of this episode was the bad guys- their plot was cool and developed well, but their status as bad guys was made a little too obvious, I thought. The character development and interaction was very much worth watching though. So were the comic bits, like Angel's "I'm not an enuch!" Heh. Looking very forward to the glimpse into Darla and Angel's pasts next week, and seeing the Master one more time. Hope to also get some more development on Wolfram and Hart.
**THESE SPOILERS END**

Robby: It's okay, take all the time you need. Kit and I have enough material to keep ourselves occupied till we can do the necessary scenes, and past them too. <grin> Good luck with those projects, hope they are soon completed and with good results.

Sevarius Jr.: I agree that we should all keep a level head in this election madness, thanks for the call to do so. I am definitely trying my best, despite the process driving me mad. (On the plus side, it does give me and Kit more time to enact our planned RP developments. Heh.) Glad you're over your brief illness, congrats. Thanks for relating those funny Buchanan commercials, too bad I never saw them. Oh well, I'm glad they didn't do him any good. :) Also agree with you on the bad election news over Hilary and the corpse. That widow should have run on her own merit, not her husband's. <sigh> As for the election recount, boy, did you ever get vocal about it. <grin> I too hope it is over soon, and that lawyers don't pick the President. They better not. That's all I'm gonna say. :(

Electoral College: I'm neutral on this issue personally. I don't like the EC's current form, think it's undemocratic, but at the same time I do see the benefits of the institution. I also think state governments are real beneficial to the nation, and they've been working well thus far, so we should not abolish states. Hope that makes sense. I'm not saying more about this because of lack of personal knowledge on the topic under debate.

Bronx: Geez, that job sounds like quite a hassle. <shakes head> You should defy your mother and quit, it sounds like she's being a real idiot about all this and ignoring your feelings, which is not good. She can not ultimately control your life, so you better show her that. This is just my opinion, by the way. :) Whatever happens, you have my sympathies and I wish you luck. Hope things soon improve somehow. <encouraging pat on the back> Good luck with school and friends too, and in dealing with your mother.

Gside: Thanks for the explanation of computer operation. I have been wondering for a very long time exactly how they work. It's good to know. <grin>

That's all for tonight, I guess. I've reached the top of the CR and need my rest now. Desperately. At least I didn't have to work tonight! <grins> And they finally got the maintenance guys to fix our 290 cart too, after it was having problems all last week and this week and finally broke down Tuesday night. Hope the phone there is fixed too- somebody dropped it too many times and it desperately needed charging thanks to being hooked up to the drained jumper and cart battery on our cart for its power so much. Getting new uniform pants too, after having the first pair get torn, worn, and accidentally burned all in a few short months. :) Hope things work out, I shall see. Later everyone! Talk to you again soon, good luck with your lives. I pray to see you again next week and that I can finally talk about our next president in my next post. <sighs hopefully, throws DC a live VX grenade, and walks out humming Chopin>

**RESUME RP ACTION**

In the Mall of America's Underwater Adventures aquarium, Orion screams "No!" as he is tackled by the demonized Tanith and knocked into a nearby fish tank, shattering the glass and causing water to spill out and flood the walkway. Sharks, sting rays, sea bass, and other fish flap and gasp in the water around the cleric and demoness as they tussle around, Tanith roaring and clawing at Orion as he tries ineffectually to block her blows and deny her existence. Looking on, Geburah laughs. "Face it, man of God!" he sneers. "Your love belongs to Satan now! All because you delayed in rescuing her! All because you left her to die!" "No," Orion shakes his head, grabbing Tanith by the arms and throwing her aside into a nearby glass wall and stunning her with the impact. The water rushing through knocks her to the floor as he gets to his feet and raises his mace, glaring at Geburah. "The Tanith I knew had such a powerful spirit that no level of torment could make her give up who she was, not even Hell. She was so dedicated to the philosophy of Wicca that nothing could make her give it up. Nothing! I know, I tried. I was wrong, but I did try, and I was made to be sorry for it. What God and I could not have done, surely the Devil could not have done either. I have faith in that." "Your faith is misplaced, cleric," Geburah sneers. "All Christians' faith is! God will abandon you now, just as you abandoned your Tanith!" "Yes, cleric," Tanith snarls, leaping to her feet and licking her sword's blade. "You abandoned me. Now you will die!" "No!" Orion snaps, stepping up to face her and shaking his head. "I will not die here. You will, demon!" "You would kill your lady love?" Geburah asks with a snicker. "You will destroy her now, after abandoning her to Hell?" Orion shakes his head. "No. I did not abandon this creature. I loved Tanith, and I never abandoned her. All these years I have been training myself, preparing to go to Hell and get her back as Orpheus got back Eurydice. I have only delayed so that I might ensure my success. Tanith would understand that, she knew me. She would remember me, and she was smart enough to tell the difference between reality and whatever illusions Hell showed her. She is, I should say, for I have faith that she is still alive and good. And someday, someday very soon, I will rescue her." "I stand before you now, cleric!" Tanith roars, glaring at him with a shocked expression. "You are too late! I am a demon, Hell has corrupted me! I am your mortal enemy!" "As Christ commanded us," Orion calmly replies, sweating as Geburah laughs, "I still love you. And I know that Tanith is still good. Even if you are her, you are still the woman I loved deep inside. In your heart, you are not a demon, nor are you evil. Only the body Hell has given you is, and the power. I will not let that power dominate me, or make me despair." He raises his finger and with his other hand makes gestures at Tanith and the cross on his shirt. "In the name of God Our Father, of Jesus Christ his Beloved Son and Savior of Humanity, of the Holy Spirit, of Saint Anthony and Saint Thespia, of Saint Francis and Mary the Holy Mother, of Saint Peter and Saint Paul, of Saint Theresa and Saint Patrick, in the name of love, and in the name of the God and Goddess followed by all Wiccans, I command you, Demon! Begone from this good woman and this place! Return thee to your home in Hell, and threaten humanity no more! Begone!" Tanith stares at him as he makes the pronouncement, her face showing resistance and anger, then changing to an expression of surprise and shock. "You can not hope for success in that, cleric!" Geburah is laughing meanwhile. "Your love for her is nothing when compared to the power of Satan, who is greater than all the beings you named! You are doomed�" He stops and gasps as Orion repeats the command of "Begone!" and a bolt of golden energy arcs from his finger and strikes Tanith, who screams as she is engulfed in holy light. As she collapses to the floor, Orion utters a blessing over her body and the water covering it, and says a prayer for her soul and faith to be restored, asking forgiveness for any sins he has committed in leaving her in Hell so long. There is the noticeable sound of bells tinkling and a choir singing as he says Amen, and Geburah gasps and roars in anger as the golden light over Tanith flares and her skin changes from red demon scales to human flesh. Her horns, fangs, and claws likewise vanish. The shadowy outline of a demon identical in shape to her appears above Tanith's body and snarls at Orion, but the cleric continues his prayers and lashes out at it with his mace, which is now glowing with heavenly light. In a single strike, the demon shade is knocked back, wailing in pain, and then disintegrates as holy power surrounds it and flares. "Orion," Tanith whispers, looking up and smiling beautifully, then fainting with the shock of her ordeal. "Tanith," Orion replies with a smile of his own. "Thank you God, Jesus, all Saints, God and Goddess." Sighing in joy and relief, he walks forward, kneels, and whispers a prayer of healing over Tanith's wounds, which is interrupted by a loud footfall behind him. "You've grown in power, cleric," Geburah declares, snapping his whip and spitting brimstone on the ground. "You have your love back, congratulations. I was wrong about your faith and hers, I concede that. But she was only part of the trial you now face." "You are the other part, Jeb?" Orion asks, standing up and glaring defiantly at the cornugon. "Very well. I have already forgiven you, and been absolved for my sin involving you, of you I am not afraid. You have been damned, and I shall send you back to Hell when you belong. St. George, St. Michael, and Saint of Killers, guide me in this battle." Making the sign of the cross as Geburah chuckles, Orion then moves toward his opponent with ready weapon and resolve.

Elsewhere in the Mall, the other Ravens continue to chase after the main group of enemy jerks and drunks, shooting at the back ranks and stopping only to cut down those who have stayed behind and are leaping out to ambush them as they progress down to the Mall's first floor and reach it. The latest ambusher is Shauna's rich boy archery rival Percy, whose three friends are beside him with hunting rifles. Two ditzy but good-looking girls in expensive clothing chuckle and cheer as they take aim at the Ravens and open fire. "Come on, Bulls-Eye!" Percy yells as he launches an arrow. Shauna's arrow intercepts the shot and splits it down the middle as she turns at the shout and fires, causing Percy to gasp in shock just before he is hit in the forehead and falls to the floor with his jaw hanging open. "No way!" one of his friends gasps. "No, Percy, no!" one of the girls wails, the other drawing a Beretta out of her purse and firing several shots at the Ravens that all miss. The other two friends' shots also miss, but the Ravens' shots of retaliation do not and soon the entire bunch is cut down. "Nice shot, Shauna," Boris says as they lower their weapons. Shauna smiles in agreement. "I wonder if the me in his dimension can shoot that great." "Maybe we should visit and find out someday," Jammer says. "I wouldn't mind meeting the other me." "Me neither," Tricia agrees with a smile reminiscent of one Anya had on Buffy a few weeks back. "I don't know if I would," Kit says. "I'd probably be real nervous about it." "Me too," says Doug. "In any case, that's not important right now. We gotta find Keith, Stephanie, and Orion, defeat the enemy, and get out of this Mall." "Maybe we'll be getting backup soon," says Tom. "Hear those sirens?" "Cops," Doug smiles. "That means backup." "Backup is good," Leah says unnecessarily. "Wish it had come sooner, though," Elena sighs. The others are nodding, then all simultaneously gasp as a loud crash echoes from nearby, followed by several loud horn blasts. "What the�" Shap mutters as he and the others spin around and see that several trucks and cars have been driven into the Mall, right through its glass doors. "Time to die, Elder!" Holder chuckles from the driver's seat of the lead car. "Time to die!" Chuckling, he guns the motor, then curses as the engine makes a lot of clanking noises and the car doesn't move. Many of the Ravens grin and laugh. "Everyone shut up!" Doug shouts at them, keeping awareness of the situation, and seeing that the other vehicles are moving around Holder and towards them. "Scatter and get behind cover, now!" Kit adds, firing a rocket into a pickup truck emblazoned with obscene stickers to emphasize her words and create a blockage as she speaks. The other Ravens gasp and nod as it is destroyed, making sure their weapons are loaded and ready as they run. "This is just great," Anthony mutters as he ducks behind an overturned display case. "How did I ever get myself into this?" "We've been wondering that for years ourselves," Doug replies with a sigh, firing several plasma bursts into random vehicles as he dashes and leaps behind a nearby information desk with Kit beside him. As the enemy vehicles either explode or are driven around their destroyed fellows and the Ravens continue seeking cover and firing at them, the screen goes blank.

**NEXT TIME- CAR WARS IN THE MALL OF AMERICA. END RP AND POST**
Doug - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Friday, November 10, 2000 01:22:24 AM
IP: pool-63.52.167.238.dlls.grid.net

**RP HERE**

In a meeting room in Thailog's secret base, Xothux smiles as he feels the effects of his Wave-of-Order spell continuing to spread. His grin widens as his magical senses tell him the spell has finished his work and he turns back to the table just as Paul du Gaul looks his way and coughs angrily. "You seemed to trail off for a while after you protested the condition of this base, Xothux," he says. "You have not been contributing to our discussion." "Nor have I been paying attention," Xothux coldly answers, grinning as du Gaul frowns. "Forgive me. What were you talking about?" "We were discussing where the Ravens might be," says Ty-Ubemngoe. "And how to find and kill them," Claudia adds with a smile. Schaefer nods in agreement. Xothux shrugs, "Well, Thailog has a spy in them, doesn't he? Let's see if he can ask that spy. We'll need more information too, like their magical ability and whether they include anyone who might be a real threat to us." "That is impossible," du Gaul laughs. "Not really," Xothux counters. "Remember what happened to Bill Monday, the executioner who escaped with us? Or Sandra Cummings, the mass murderer? Or Dylan Klebold? How about Serpent Queen Priestess Ashibenata and her reports on that Zeke Stone and his activities? He's not the only Hellcop after us either. There are many of them, and one could be with the Ravens." "I hope so," Claudia says. "I want to take them out. No one's ever sending me back there!" "Me neither," Ty-Ubemngoe agrees. Schaefer shrugs, and du Gaul growls an oath to show his concurrence. "It's not likely that there are any Hellcops among the Ravens," he says. "We would have seen a file." "Perhaps Thailog doesn't know of any," Xothux counters. "Doesn't mean they aren't there. Thailog and his allies don't know everything. No one does." du Gaul is grimacing at this statement when suddenly the room door opens and Dahak walks in. His eyes go immediately to Xothux, who he stares at for a long moment. "You!" he declares, pointing a finger at the Megaman-lookalike. "I thought you were dead!" "I was," Xothux chuckles. "Hello, Dahak. Good to see a fellow Unseelie again. I didn't know you were working for Thailog." "I have been for a long time now," Dahak replies guardedly. "You owe him an explanation, Xothux. And me one. You are alive, and you cast a Wave-of-Order spell on this base." "The chaos of it disturbed me," Xothux shrugs. "It had to be done. Don't bother asking me to reverse it, Dahak. You know I won't." "Fine, I'll reverse it myself after you leave on your assignment to go after the Ravens," Dahak snaps, his eyes flickering briefly to the other people in the room and the files on the table. "As to how you're back from the dead�" "He escaped from Hell, alright?" du Gaul interrupts, causing Xothux to glare at him. "We all did! Is that sufficient?" Dahak is silent for a moment, then nods. "I suppose so. Good day." With that, he turns and walks out, slamming the door behind him. "Who was that man?" Claudia asks in his wake. "The Destroyer of Babylon," Xothux answers with a sigh. "It despairs me to see him reduced in power so much, and serving one as undedicated to order as Thailog seems." "Whatever," du Gaul shrugs. "Let's get back to the Ravens." "Yes, let's," Ty-Ubemngoe agrees. "I'm curious about something, Paul. These girls in the Ravens- Stephanie and Lisa 'Kitainia' Telman. Didn't you tell me in Hell you knew an Ian Telman in the second world war?" "Yes," du Gaul replies. "Best minesweeper the Americans had who I met. We saved each other's lives a couple times, my unit and his were together in Ardennes Forest and at the liberation of Buchenwald. Why?" The huge gargoyle raises an eyebrow. "You're not noting the similarity in names?" Paul frowns, gasps, and looks down at the file on the table as his comrades exchange dispiriting looks.

The display changes to a set in Orlando, Florida that looks like it is ordinarily used for the taping of the Nickelodeon game show Double Dare. Seven women wearing multicolored female business suits whose jackets are emblazoned with the letters "EWS" climb out of a pit of mixed-up green slime, beans, red paint, and other assorted gunk coughing and swearing heavily. "Remind me again why we signed up for this," Jenny Jones growls, looking back at the huge obstacle course of slides, tunnels, and ropes they have just crossed. "It was a favor to Geraldine," Jenny McCarthy replies ditzily, somehow managing to look good despite all the gunk her body is covered with. "She wanted women who represented the ideal model of American womanhood to be soldiers for her, or something like that, and we volunteered. I think that's what it was. She used a lot of big words, though, so I'm not sure." "I wonder if we can take back that voluntary decision," snarls Oprah Winfrey. "This training she's putting us through is worse than the time I got attacked by that giant bull! Women should not be subjected to it!" "That's WOMYN!" Geraldine Laybourne snarls, walking onto the set with clicking high heels and causing all seven of the Empowered Womyn Scouts to snap to attention with grimaces and grins. "Pronounce it correctly!" "Yeah, sure, we'll try!" Janet Jackson replies in an arrogant tone, sparking a glare from Laybourne. "In return, how about giving us better training conditions, huh? I'm Janet Jackson, I don't deserve these conditions!" "Neither do I," snorts Rosie O'Donnell. "This is worse than Hell was, Gerry! You call us the prime examples of Empowered Womyn in America. Start treating us like that!" "You are not only the prime examples of Empowered Womyn in America," Laybourne coldly replies. "You are also my soldiers. Male soldiers and females in the US Armed Forces are trained under similarly deplorable conditions. I will not have my Empowered Womyn Scouts trained otherwise." "But they don't have to go through an obstacle course like that!" Ricki Lake declares. "Look how it ruined my suit!" "Silence!" Laybourne snaps. "I am in charge here, and this is the training you are getting! Fifty push-ups now, all of you!" The EWS growls as one, but then they all drop to the floor and start doing push-ups. Laybourne starts walking back and forth in front of them like a drill sergeant. "This morale level is unacceptable," she says as she does so. "I may have to get some Empowered Womyn officers to train you appropriately. Tipper Gore should suffice, or Hilary Clinton. Perhaps Maxine Waters, or Joan Brown. Too bad Susan Powter's dead, or I'd gladly use her. The fact remains, you must all be made to see your training for its value. You are Empowered Womyn, and must become such in spirit, body, and mind. After today's training session, I shall send you on a mission. This state of Florida and several other American counties have been forced to recount their election votes recently due to the efforts of Steve Case's hackers to drag out the election and help ensure Gore wins. To further ensure that happening, as is my plan and Lady Synatia's, you will attack the Florida election offices and destroy all voting records of the state. The attack shall happen tomorrow night. Before it, though, I require you all to spend tonight not sleeping," there is a collective sigh of protest, "but watching a succession of pornographic films and films with large amounts of suggestive dialogue. As Empowered Womyn, you must be made aware of the evilness of sexual intercourse and be desensitized to your need for it!" "Now just a moment!" Jenny McCarthy whines. "Sexual empowerment is one of the things I pride myself on!" "Me too!" Ricki Lake says. "Sex makes for great talk-show topics and ratings too!" "Amen!" say Jenny Jones, Oprah, and Rosie. "You must give up that pride!" Laybourne retorts, firing a bolt of demon lightning into the ground to emphasize her words and causing the EWS to gasp. "If you are to become true Empowered Womyn. Sex is an act forced on us by men, no more! We must do whatever possible to eliminate male dominance over us! Never forget that!" "No problem with watching those films on my part, Geraldine," says Dr. Laura Schelsinger. "I already deplore homosexual activity in all its forms, deploring all sex is no problem." "That's coming for someone who posed for Playboy," Janet Jackson mutters. "You did too," Dr. Laura retorts, shutting her up. "I'm glad at least one of you sees the purpose of the effort," Laybourne says. "The rest of you had better not protest it anymore. Otherwise, it's the Pit." The EWS gasp as one, then shake their heads. "Good soldiers," Laybourne chuckles. "Now Atten-Hut!" As the EWS jump to their feet with grimaces and salute, the screen goes blank.

**END THIS PLOT-FURTHERING RP**

Hey everybody. Good to be in here again. Not much to report on in the work situation- we've hired three more new people, two of whom started this week, and things are appearing stable- finally. On Monday night, Steven Walker committed a huge transgression- he didn't do his job at all even though he was still on the property, he sat in his car and listened to music instead of patrolling- and the manager caught him doing it! :) About time something like this happened, I think. Abel came out there and gave him an intense verbal haranguing, and has been cutting his hours since as it's clear this is not the first time he's done this (Abel caught him doing it his second night, warned him not to, and it seems he didn't take the warning- his gas use is also the lowest of all officers). As soon as we're sure we have a viable replacement for the guy, he is gone. <grin> Warren Walker I spoke too soon about however- he's returned from AWOL-ness and is back on his regular shift. He's being watched closely, though, and we do have enough officers to replace him if necessary, so if he's late or absent enough times, he should soon be gone forever too. That's my hope anyway. And we start the extra Sam's patrolling this weekend too. In other news, I am 2/3 done with the second round of midterms in my college classes, one more paper this weekend and I will be done. No good-looking movies coming out this weekend, unfortunately. Thanks to all who extended their congratulations to Keith and Stephanie, Kit and I are happy for them too. The wedding's in late May, I'm a groomsman and in charge of the gifts. It's going to be a big event, I can already tell. Stephanie's got a real pretty blue diamond on her engagement ring, exquisitely carved into the shape of a sword. How Keith afforded it I do not know. But it's beautiful, and so is the dress she'll probably wear. Now I got Kit glaring at me a lot and asking when we're gonna be married. <shakes head> I keep telling her soon, hope I can keep that promise. On to replies.

Warpmind: Good to know your tooth troubles will soon be over. Congrats on that, and on the new apartment. Glad to know you're becoming independent, hope you can get your own Internet access soon. Looking forward to when you can resume your regular posting rate and the RPs, hope it's soon. :)

Coyote: Glad the new job is going well, despite the continued accidents. Sorry you had to vote stinky, but at least you voted! <grin> Hope the accidents soon end. I too enjoyed your Halloween party pics, thanks for posting them very much.

Winterwolf: Glad you're feeling better, sorry I missed your bit about being sick last week. <grimace> Hope you enjoyed the ice hockey team, I wish your team the best of luck in the remaining games ahead.

Green Baron: Thanks for your congrats. I wish I could contact Father Haas, but I've lost touch with him over the years unfortunately. Mom might know how to contact him, but I'm not sure I want to. He's unnecessary anyway- Keith and Stephanie already have a minister lined up. They're both Methodist too, with Buddhist and Jewish influences respectively. And neither is that religiously devout. $ Good RP with Atilla's rescue, though I'm disappointed to have to wait a bit longer for a confrontation with Hilary. Hope one's eventually on the way. BTW, can you please not worry about Gore if he should lose the election? Kit and I have some really awful things we want to do with him, Tipper, and Liebermann if they lose (and if they win, too). For full details, e-mail us. $ Congrats on quickly getting over the cold.

Mary: Glad you enjoyed the Samhain festival so much, thanks for telling us about it. I may have to attend one of those sometime, hopefully to have a similar amount of fun. :) Sorry to hear you'll be on crutches for a while, but such things unfortunately do happen. Could be worse- Kit's been in a wheelchair, Stephanie once had to spend an entire month in the hospital (ask Kit by e-mail if you want to know why, it's real private), and every bone in Jammer's body has been broken at least once. He luckily has a remarkable constitution. <shakes head> The worse injury I've ever suffered is torn neck muscles, and those were no picnic either. Neck brace and a lot of pain. But pain always goes away after a time, and so do the hardships that come with it. Have faith in that, endure, and it will pass. Hope it does soon, and also that you soon get to see Princess Mononoke. And thanks for giving me the ideal of Kenshin. Kit is forcing me to live up to it. <smirk>

DPH: I agree with you 100% on political telemarketers. They're the main reason I didn't vote for the instituition of light rail in Austin- that and experiencing what happened with it in Taipei. I wasn't the only one who didn't vote for it either- the measure failed to pass. Now Capital Metro has to spend its money on improving our roads and making their buses arrive on time like it should be. <grin> Good luck with the Dad situation, glad you're keeping a reasonable frame of mind about it and dealing with things. Thanks for keeping us up to date, hope a solution can soon be reached.

Winterwolf: Thanks for the encouragement. Good luck with all the pressure on your job currently, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed it will soon end. :) Don't take the stress too hard. Thanks also for the Shadowrider news, glad that he's doing alright.

**SPOILERS, REVIEW OF CHARLIE'S ANGELS**
Can't recommend this movie to everyone. If plot and character development are really important to you in a movie, don't go. If good acting is important to you, definitely don't go. If you want a lot of Matrix-esque action with cool well-done stunts and lots of campy humor that is funny most of the time, then check it out. Crispin Glover's preformance as a very creepy villain and very good fighter- he's now the guy I want for the part of Zack's nemesis Lysander Graves in my fanfic (character would have been introduced in Losses, Ask Doug for more of my plans concerning him)- is also worth it. The guy is as much of a visual feast as Ray Park or Jet Li. Bill Murray also does a decent job in his role even though there wasn't much character development or too many good scenes for Bosley in the film. If only it hadn't been so boring, cliched, and ultimately predictable, Charlie's Angels might have been good all around. Oh well. 6/10, thumbs down but up on Crispin Glover's fight scenes. Check out those, and ignore the rest, you'll enjoy this film. Next week- review of 6th Day, Ah-nuld's latest action bash. :)
**END SPOILERS, REVIEW**

Firestorm: Ack, 1000-mile per week commute to work? 60 hrs. a week I could probably take thanks to the extra overtime money, but that commute? No way! Glad you're getting another job soon, good luck with it. I agree with you on abortion too. Hope I never have to directly deal with the problem of it. :(

Christine: Congrats on the relaxing weekend, glad you didn't get sick. My best regards to Becca and Tim, hope they are doing okay. And same to you. :) Looking forward to the next Dissidents fic. (Wasn't it gonna be called Necrivore? Guess you changed that. <shrugs> Within your rights. :)

**X-FILES SPOILERS**
Great episode this week, nice opening to the season and much-needed revitalization of the season after all the disappointments last year. Plot and character developments that actually made sense, continuity, some really creepy Mulder-as-experiment scenes, some great Scully and Skinner stuff, it was all in there. Liked the introduction of Dogget too, he is a well-acted character with many nice lines who makes a great foil for Scully so far. Was shocked by the glimpse we caught of Mulder at the end, I too bet it's probably a shapeshifter, but we'll see. :) Hope we see Krycek and the Lone Gunmen again soon, not to mention Smoking Man. Yeah, I know the latter is dead, but he's been killed off before and come back. He can do it again. And he is my favorite character. Overall, ep gets a 9/10, point off for a small bit of disjointedness in the plot. No major problems though, looking real forward to what happens next week.
**END SPOILERS**

Jessie Feff: Happy Belated Birthday. And thanks for the endorsement of RPG Maker, I too want to check it out one of these days. Be cool to make my own RPGs on the Playstation- I've had an idea for a fantasy RPG set in modern New York with elements from Eternal Quest that I've wanted to try putting onto chips for some time now. Arthurian Demon Etrigan gains control of his host, billionaire Jason Adams, and essentially takes over the city. He then seals it off from the rest of the world via magical barrier and opens a few gates to Hell, forms alliances with local bad guys, and so on. Tough street kid Eric, hot street-smart sharpshooter Cassandra, taxi driver Steve, construction worker Dave, wisecracking cop Del, sewer rat-man Ricky, soldier Joe, Broadway starlet Kris, freelance vigilantes Seth and Demona, Vampire Slayer Ari, young gargoyle Graeme, teen sorceress Rachel, engineer Brad, bitch security guard Liz, and dragon/reporter Nikki must unite with each other, Merlin, and other various allies to defeat Etrigan and his allies and take back the city. Be fun to actually play that game one of these days and not just think about it. Bet it would require a lot of Memory Card space though, RPG Maker surely does. <sigh> Congrats on getting to do the radio commercials, hope they went well. Wonder if I'll ever hear one. :)

X-Men Evolution: This show surpassed my expectations in its premiere episode too. Did a nice job developing its currently small cast, and setting the tone as well as directing the plot events and orchestrating them. Liked the Wolverine intro in particular. Also very good ending and great animation. I'm definitely going to be keeping an eye on this show for a while. Good new Batman Beyond and Max Steel episodes this week too, wish Greg was still on the latter show in more than the credits. :(

Niamhgold: Congrats on getting well, glad the bout of sickness was brief. Good luck with those papers and the project, hope that by now you've gotten them all done. Bet you're looking forward to the grades. :)

Kyryn: I'm glad things are getting better for me too. <grin> Kit and I also voted for Kay Bailey Hutchinson. And Lloyd Dogget, Ronnie Earle, and many other area incumbents. All of whom won. :)

Aaron: Welcome back! Good to see an old friend again. You're right about the Middle East having too much religion, though many would say that's not a problem. <shrugs> Have you read Tom Clancy's Sum of All Fears? He uses a plan based on religion in that book to resolve a lot of the Middle East's problems, and it surprisingly works. The book is also recommended as a very good bit of character interaction and a great fact-filled account of a terrorist plot to nuke the Super Bowl. Definitely check it out if you haven't already. Or reread. :)

Mara: Congrats to your mom on finishing the marathon, glad you got to enjoy it too. I've never watched one of those, may have to do it someday. Not sure if I'll ever be in one, I'm not exactly in the proper shape. :) Congrats also on being able to come to the next Gathering because of your new job, and on the job itself.

SOROW: Congrats on getting over the strep throat, glad it was so brief. Sorry to hear stress is still having a significant impact on your life, hope it ends soon. Good luck and <hugs>.

King Snarf: That bit about God is brilliant, IMO. You must have read Preacher too, right? <sighs> I miss that comic so much.

**PENDRAGON SPOILERS**
Great job on Once and Future King, TGS Staff! I've been impressed by all the Pendragon eps this season, but this one really impressed me. Ranks with Iris, Lily, and Rose 1 and 2 as the only ep to do that this season so far. If Part 2 is anywhere near as good as Part 1�:) Downsides were the lack of illustrations (hope Part 2 has some!) and the somewhat anticlimactic feel of events in the episode, particularly at the end, but these were small problems easily ignored in the face of the great stuff in the episode. By which I mean the great character developments on Mary and Arthur, the well-written plot, and the bits developing Leba, Merlin, and Braddock. Great to see Morgana developed more as a villain too, making her Mary's potential stepmother was indeed a great idea and was a great catalyst to remind us of her history and how she feels about it, thus developing her. Liked the Nigel developments also, before I thought he was just the typical politician, but now I know he's also an irresponsible father and a snobbish jerkhead. Definitely an intriguing and deplorable bad guy. :) Seabairn makes a great new villain too, an excellent foil for Arthur and one who emphasizes one of the many bad sides of our hero. Real nice confrontation between him and Arthur, and the guy had great lines too. Can hardly wait till more about him is revealed, especially his true identity and connection to Arthur. A bit disappointed that the TGS Staff is making Mordred Morgana's nephew and not son, though. I liked him as her son in the movies. But the legendary view also has its merits. Keep up the good work, TGS Staff, great job on this one Todd. Hope Part 2 is just as great when it comes out next week, and that the art staff troubles are soon eased. They make me grimace. <sigh>
**SPOILERS OVER, END PART 1**
Doug - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Friday, November 10, 2000 01:21:17 AM
IP: pool-63.52.167.238.dlls.grid.net

Daphne> <<I'll extend the Smithsonian to include a museum of animation>>: I don't think there's much room left on the Mall. Maybe we could move administration out of the castle.
Congratulations on the scores.

Mary Flanders> May your ackle heal quickly.

Lynati> <>: Let's see if I can clarify anything. First of all, everything in a computer is either 1 or 0. By putting all these 1s and 0s together in interesting ways, we can represent all sorts of neat stuff (letters, pictures, sounds, or even instructions for the computer to do other stuff). the computer remembers things by either charging a capacitor (for memory) or by spinning pieces of magnetic stuff (in a hard drive). Each little thing that could be either a 1 or 0 is called a bit. A group of eight bits is a byte (there are also nybbles, crumbs, playtes, chawmps, and gawbles, but no one care about those). Then, because we need so many bytes to actually have anything intelligable on a computer, we abbreviate all these big numbers with standard magnitude indicators: k=kilo-=1000, M=Mega-=1000,000, gig=giga-=1,000,000,000, terra-=1,000,000,000,000. Since all the flashy stuff everyone likes to see on a computer is so detailed, we need a heck of a lot of bits on a computer to remember anything good. Memory holds what a computer is thinking about at this instant, while the hard drive holds whatever you might want to think about eventually. This is why the difference in the recccommended numbers is so large.
I threw out a bunch of other abbreviations. asf, rm, and mpg are all little tags that you put on the end of file (a set of bits that make up one thing) names that let the computer know how the data in them was represented by the 1s and 0s. They all happen to be video files, which tend to be really large. DVD is like a very dense CD. It works the same way, but just holds a bit more. All the stuff while I was talking about Crays doesnt really matter, but Cray is a company that is famous for its supercomputers, SV1 is a model they make, and dp is a way to define the resolution of a monitor. ISP stands for internet service provider. They are the people who let your computer talk to theirs, and have theirs hooked up to the rest of the internet with a very fast connection. Cable and DSL are both ways to talk to the ISP, and are much faster than regular phone line. I think that's most of the comfusing stuff.
<>: I keep two browser windows open and keep changing from one to the other as I write my post.

Bronx> May you find time.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Friday, November 10, 2000 01:13:54 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

Gunjack: <<<Jesus taught his followers to lead others to him by their examples, not their stunningly well-laid-out logical arguements.>>>

But those stunningly well-laid-out logical arguments are so fun!

<<>>

That's fair. But is punishing them for it also fair?

<<<However, I have yet to hear a consistently logical arguement that refutes God and DOESN'T make logical life unlivable.>>>

How's that? I'd love to hear more on this.

Azrael: <<<Our lot in life is not to question God, just to choose to obey.>>>

But in God's case, it's choosing to believe in Him first, THEN choosing to obey... which, if you believe in Him, is the only rational next step.

<<<At the end of the book, God dressed Job down for daring to ask "why" and still didn't explain Himself.>>>

Young cadet McHenry looked from his commanding officer to the field of dead women and children slaughtered by his order.

"Sir, I don't understand... why--"

The General shot a sharp look of indignation McHenry's way. "It's not your lot to question my orders, cadet, just carry them out!"

<<<If God were just, we would all go to Hell.>>>

Well, isn't that tidy. Only thing is, I never ASKED to be created. If I'm inherently sinful and evil, and the only way God will let me into Heaven is if I lick his boots enough... fine, you know what? UNcreate me. I don't want to be alive. But no, that's not an option, is it?

<<<God tells His believers to inform everyone else that He exists, and to offer them the choice of following Him. Once, we've done that, our obligation to that person is done.>>>

Some guy could come to my door, flash me the sacred scriptures of the Great Cow Lord, Master of the Universe, and offer me the choice to follow him. Would you?

<<<Perhaps its just because I'm a Texan and we're all inordinately proud of our state, but I like statehood.>>>

It's because you're a Texan. ;)

Kyryn> Thanks for the clarification.

Gasper: <<<FINALLY! Cell Games are here.>>>

I was looking over the series episode list, and I hope the Cell Games are good, because they don't last nearly as long as I'd thought. Still, as of yesterday's episode, the series has really picked back up, so I'm hopeful.

DPH: <<<Hey, entity, it's ARKANSAN not Arkansanian.>>>

I think Arkansanian sounds niftier, though. ;)

Robby: <<<I'm sure the same thing will happen whenever the WB gets around to syndicating Buffy...>>>

It'd really help if they did that now...

SJ: <<<Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, I loathe and despise.>>>

Why?

Re: Greg's comments> I believe he himself admitted to some confusion in the way he presented his beliefs. Personally, I see where he's coming from with everything.
Entity
Friday, November 10, 2000 01:04:45 AM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Hee-hee...

Found something interesting on the 'net tonight...for my fellow Bush fans...I bring you...Dancin' Dubya! :)

http://www.dovewinds.com/dubya/
Lady Corax
Friday, November 10, 2000 12:01:43 AM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

Continued coverage of InDecision 2000:

This is the point where I officially have a meltdown.

I'm VERY pissed right now. I'm gonna be ranting here.

This goddamned election STILL isn't over with, and I'm ready to point fingers. I'm not gonna point at Gore, or the Democrats, even though they aren't helping things. No, I'm gonna point fingers at Florida. Specifically, West Palm Beach.

To all members of West Palm Beach: You are IDIOTS. You are morons. This is going to sound horribly partisan, but I'm not talking now as a Republican, I'm talking now as someone who is just far too fed up with stupidity. Look, 19,000 votes were nullified. Why? BECAUSE YOU F!CKED UP. I have seen the ballot all over the news. It's NOT that hard to figure out. The goddamned thing was approved, of all people, by a Democrat. They felt it was simple enough, and you know what? They were right. It's NOT a difficult ballot. It's relatively simple. YOU MORONS COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT??? Jesus Christ! Do you know why they nullified your vote? Because, you dumbasses, you don't vote twice on the same ballot! If you had some confusion, you should have asked for clarification, or if you messed up, you either 1) ask for a new ballot or 2) just accepted the fact that you made a mistake. But you screwed up. Badly. It's because of you that this thing is dragging on. If you dumbasses had not screwed up, Al Gore would probably have won by now and this would finally be over with. But you screwed up, so we're stuck in limbo.

And for all of those who are calling for a revote--NO. That's the the most UNFAIR thing I can think of. Look, them's the breaks. You screwed up, that makes you a moron, but you don't get a second chance. In baseball, if the batter strikes out, he doesn't get to go to the umpire and say "Oh geez, I really meant to hit the ball that time. Let me do it again." No. It doesn't work that way. And neither should this election. It's utterly ridiculous that there are those considering a recount because some people were too incompetent to do things right the first time. What the hell are going to do? Have another election? That's fair? Might as well hold the WHOLE election over again. Oh, but wait, things could go wrong there too. Might have more mistakes. Well, I guess we'll just have to keep doing it over and over again until we get it right!

[As an aside, some people are speculating that the confusion was caused by elderly voters, whose poor eyesight led them to make the wrong choice.
This wouldn't happen if I was King. Because all of the elderly would be safely placed in their work cam......I mean *leisure* camps. Trust me, they'll love it there!]

Please. Here's how the system should work--you get the votes, you win. Tally them all up, and whoever gets more, that's the chump who walks away the champ. Simple as that.

But apparently, that isn't good enough for some people. Now this probably IS partisan, but the Democrats want to take this all to court. And now Bush is threatening that if they do that, he may force recounts in Wisconsin, and New Mexico, and a few other states which he lost by a very narrow margin. Do you really want this? Is THAT fair? You think you are disenfranchised now, wait till this goes to court.

Does everyone understand the ramifications of this if it does go to court? It means that, in all truthfulness, your vote meant absolutely DICK. You, the voter, will NOT be deciding the next President. Lawyers will. THAT'S F!CKED UP. I don't want a goddamned lawyer deciding who is running the show for the next 4 years. I personally find that idea horrifying. I'm so incredibly scared right now that this will go to court.

Now, the recount is STILL going on. Bush was ahead by a slim margin, but his number was dropping like a rock. But whoever wins, it'd be over, right? Wrong. Gore wants a hand count. Yes, ANOTHER recount. If he does that, Bush will want another count as well. Then we still have the absentee votes, and I've heard that their number is anywhere from 3,000 to 100,000. Those won't be all counted until *next week*. Next Friday. But then it's over, right? Not necessarily. If, after all those votes are counted, one of these bastards doesn't concede, we're gonna have a court battle. That's when I head to the top of the clock tower with my rifle.

I WANT THIS TO END!! NOT IN A WEEK!!! NOT IN A MONTH!!! NOW!!!!

You know, both sides--just accept it. Accept the vote count. Bush, if Gore wins, shit down and shut up. Same thing for Gore. NO COURTS. No lawyers.

You know, this is my first presidential election to vote in. I missed the last one by one week. Some people would see this as a historical election to be a part of, I just see it as one big friggin' embarassment.

This sickens me. They're making the entire election process a joke. They're gonna take the power out of our hands and give it to the LOWEST scum on the face of this planet--lawyers.

You know what this means, don't you. It's finally time.

It's finally time to iniate the Nereus Project.

Wilek, I'm ready, willing, and able. I have the firearms, the duct tape, the industrial jar of mayonnaise, and I'm ready to GO.
**************************

Green Baron: Even though he's a Democrat, it doesn't bother me that Corzine won his election. Anybody willing to piss away 63 million dollars on a senate election should just be given the seat.

Entity: You seem to have mistaken my personal opinion of the Clintons. See, I don't see everyone associated with Bill Clinton as "tainted" (although he's done his fair share of tainting. Just ask Monica and her little blue dress.). And I don't hate Clinton. I don't really like him, to be honest, he's not my most favorite person, but I don't hate him at all. I find him charismatic in a fashion (of course, Charles Manson was charismatic too, to put things in perspective).
Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, I loathe and despise. Very much so. In fact, if she was to die a horrible, painful, and exceptionally violent death....well, I *think* I would be able to maintain sufficient self-control that I wouldn't crack a smile. Maybe.
Lazio could have beaten her. Should have beaten her, actually, but he was ultimately hurt by having advisors that weren't worth a mound of dog poo.

Greg: You say that Christianity is arrogant, yet then you make one hell of a pretentious presumption that all of its followers are brainwashed. You're not making any sense. One minute you're saying you hate religion, and the next you're saying that if it does good for people, you're for it. I don't see your views as "different" so much as confusing. I'm sure Gunjack could make some sort of logical conclusion to all this.

Jackal: Is the new Manson stuff good? I've only heard one track so far, the first single "Disposable Teens", and I love it.
And he poses a good question: Is entertainment killing our kids? Or is killing our kids entertaining adults?
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Thursday, November 9, 2000 11:46:20 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

<Complete the following series with an appropriate animal> scorpion, spider, snake, bat, and komodo <sp?> dragon. All are nocturnal predators, and have nasty reps with human kind.

So, where are my cookies? ;)

Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 9, 2000 11:23:55 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Jaden- The problem with flipping a coin to settle a vote is that once the coin is in the air, according to any comedy series, the coin inevitably hits to floor, rolls, and ends up under a dresser, down a drain or something, or in the case of News Radio, never comes down at all. And with the way this election is going, that would likely be exactly what happened...

Entity- Ahhh. Incidentally, I was QUITE impressed. DS9 never had the stones to pull this kind of change, or issue of CONTINUITY, or permanent character development, or set up for future stories. Babylon 5 is impressing the heck out of me. I'm glad the people in this CR talked about it enough to make me wanna watch it... I'm sure the same thing will happen whenever the WB gets around to syndicating Buffy...

Robby
Thursday, November 9, 2000 11:03:06 PM
IP: spider-wm054.proxy.aol.com

Jeez this election is getting close. If it goes on much longer it will be like "Well I guess we're just going to have to flip a coin."
The weather is getting really cold now. I expect snow soon. If this cafe wasn't heated my fingures would be stuck to the keyboard ;P.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.com]
KoreaThursday, November 9, 2000 10:40:17 PM
IP: 211.216.216.91

BRONX - I hadn't noticed any physical similarity between Storm and Elisa myself. But that's an interesting comment. I do know that Frank Paur was the director of the first "X-Men:Evolution" episode (I saw his name in the credits), which might be significant.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 9, 2000 08:49:37 PM
IP: 216.87.46.240.dialup-stl.primary.net

**As DPH prepares to enter the room, DC and all the usual CR villians quickly and quietly leave the room.**

Hey, entity, it's ARKANSAN not Arkansanian. However, it a point of question whether or not to call residents of my states 'Arkies'.

Ok, it's official. I am getting spam daily to an account I never posted anywhere on the 'net. The only people who should know about that address are the folks at cnet.

Complete the following series with an appropriate animal: scorpion, spider, snake, and bat. 1 dozen cybercookies await the person who can do so and justify the decision.

1=2

Yes, DC and the all regular CR villains fled because I had a bad day. First, I had to remind 1 person and tell another person about my back problems. I liked to have pased out due to the back pain after standing so long. I got a headache for doing so.

Yes, I visited the doctor today. He switched me to Vioxx from Mobic and gave me a list of exercises I can do to help me back.

Yes, I visited the eye doctor today. I have a new prescription with new frames on their way. Unfortunately, he had problems seeing the back of my eye and wanted to dilate my pupils. Ok, I will do that the day after Thanksgiving.

DPH wants help with Christmas shopping. He does not know what to get his favorite (and only) brother's family for Christmas. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Online shopping - Ok, how secure is it with personal checks?

Christmas shopping - why do the stores put up Christmas items out before Halloween hits?

**Religion in general**
I think of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine as a good example of the potential hazards of a state controlled religion. You had the religious leader of the Bajorans more interested in power than in serving the people. That is why I like being an SBC: we believe that the government should not enforce religion on anyone. However, I question that when they want prayer back in schools. It is like they want it both ways. I will have to talk to someone about that.
**END RELIGION**

**DPH leaves the room wearing glasses in hot pursuit of DC in order to let his anger out.**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Thursday, November 9, 2000 08:43:33 PM
IP: max1-8.cwy.cei.net

****WARNING SERIOUS WORK RANT COMING UP!!!******
Well.. I've had it with my job. 6 months in the joint, and I am SO tired of it!!! Okay, it might seem that its somewhat pathetic that I'm ranting about a job that I've not been in very long with, but I've practically invented 100% of my time in that hell hole! Where do I work? At a hardware store. The only one in town might I add.. so I get all the colorful ones in there! It's so discusting.. everyone in my town is so damn snotty!! It's actually pretty rare to have a person be nice to me. Whats up with that? Just because it's a teenager that is working to help serve the customer doesnt mean that they have to treat them like %$#@$!!!
My mother claims that I've just hit a rough point, and she wont let me quit. It's so frusturating.. I have no time for myself anymore, its either school or work. Money is becoming a curse to me.<Sorry GB.. but it's so true!> The reason why I started to work over the summertime is because I needed something to do. Well summer is done now! I want to play.. and of course do well in school, but I actually want to say yes to my friends when they ask me to the movies.. not sigh and groan and say pitifully that I have a job...
Gahh... I actually have a day off tomorrow, and I planned on enjoying it. BUT NO.. they call up and demand that I come in early. Mother dear commends me on how I'll make extra cash.
ARGGHHHHHH!!!!!!
***END WORK RANT****

*ahem* Hi everyone!

Election> I really hope that Florida's votes are tallied all up together soon. Last time I checked a few hours ago, Bush was in the lead by a mass amount. It's somewhat frightening.. I would really like to see Gore win. Just have to wait and see. I dont know about everyone else, but I just want to see who wins.

The New Xmen> Cause of work.. *growlz* I didnt see it, but thank god for siblings.. my bro taped it for me. It looks like its going to be a good series. Though I do miss Rougue, Gambit and Beast being around. Hopefully they'll have a cameo or something. So is it me, or does Storm (if you take away her hair) look like Elisa? I think thats so cool =)

***Buffy and Angel Spoliers*** Both eps this week I think were pretty good. I liked the whole idea of Tara's family coming in. The whole story of her being a demon, but when Spike punched her.. ahh the tables turned! I've decided that I *really* dont like Tara's brother.. he's so jerky.
Angel was decent as well, I loved the comments on how Angel not singing.. and the swami (sp?) guy was cool.
*End spoliers*

Wellz, thats all for now.. Going to go read pendragon...

*walks out errie singing "Singing in the rain" like the dude from Clockwork Orange*

Bronx
Thursday, November 9, 2000 08:32:01 PM
IP: spider-wd034.proxy.aol.com

*Lynati's voice comes muffled throught the curtains*

Azarah: "The states"? "Polar bears"? I take back what i said in my e-mail about not giving clues to where you live.

....I STILL MISS OZ, TOO!
I practically cried when he left. He was one of my favorite characters.
...and while I don't have anything against non-Het couples, I still would prefer to have had Oz end up with Willow.
Actually, Tara or no Tara, I still hope he does.
(That didin't sound quite right...oh, well.)
(Although, I suppose them ending up as a threesome would be okay...)

*Lynati goes silent, save for the click-clicking of her typing a philosophy paper.*

Lynati
Kansas city, MO, USA
Thursday, November 9, 2000 08:31:24 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Don't worry Todd, I wasn't offended. I love myths to and I ramble about them at times. Thanks for correcting my spelling by the way.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 9, 2000 08:27:45 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

GREG BISHANSKY - Actually, the correct spelling is "Elysian Fields".

(Hope that I didn't offend you or anything; the "myth-pedant" in me simply can't resist answering such questions whenever they get raised).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 9, 2000 07:07:11 PM
IP: 216.87.46.66.dialup-stl.primary.net

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's about how it's been for me all week.

Hi, I'm back. Got a new mouse and Camera for the PC, but in trying to change the settings to enable a USB port, my system froze, and I turned it off.....oops. Well, The PC wouldn't boot at all, so I had to get it fixed. Cost me 45 but it's worth it. Plus, the USB port is enabled, and they even boosted my Voodoo 2 performance...YEAH!

So, I woulda done some RP, but I'm gonna wait till tomorrow. To some people's chagrin, I'm getting my character out of Hell, too hot. Anyway, that's all on that front.

On the Elections- I'm proud to say I fulfilled my duty as an American Citizen, and voted for the first time. I missed the 96 Election by a month and 14 days, so it's great to have done this. Voted almost all party line, save for the Democrat who wanted to take away my Fin. Aid. She's a professor here, but not suited for congress if she's gonna try and screw over some constituates. She lost anyway.

DBZ wise. FINALLY! Cell Games are here. First off, I'm a loyal fan, and I care not what anyone thinks about it, because I like it. The music though, I must say, on the American Dub, is not great. But I'm not so much a fan of the instrumental of the Japanese. I do though, like selected ones, and love the lyrical songs, my faves being Hikari No Willpower, Blue Velvet (DBGT), Aoi Kaze No Hopu (Trunks Special), and We Were Angels. There are MANY others, and the character songs are Great. 18's is fun. Personally, I think that's the great thing about the Japanese culture, quality songs with Quality Animation.... But that's my opinion, I could be wrong.

Well, I've got other things to do today, and Blue Sub 6 is on. Can't wait for Endless Waltz. That's all from Gasp.

Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Thursday, November 9, 2000 06:10:59 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

On the Tara situation. I like Tara. I really do. She reminds me of a good friend of mine, and she and Willow are good together. Do not blame her for Willow not being with Oz. If anything blame SETH GREEN for that. HE wanted to move on towards a bigger movie career. Joss Whedon did not get rid of him, Seth Green quit. Though he did appear again twice, he is no longer a regular by HIS choice. If he had not left, Willow and Oz would still be an item.

Besides, why do all the characters need to be heterosexual anyway?

On the Religion debate> Someone today asked me why I don't believe in her. And I cited many of the points I made in here last week. This individual was not at all convinced that I had a good reason. So I pointed this out. I dislike the arrogance in the Bible that just because God created us that she can do with us as she wishes and we must abide by her laws because we belong to her. Well, I BELONG TO NOBODY! Religion was created as a means to control people, the Pagan religions are like that, the Eastern religions are like that and the other religions are like that. So each of these groups created their deities and a form of life after death, reincarnation, Heaven, Hell, Nirvana, the Alegian (sp?) Fields, Tartarus, etc. The end point was to create laws and to scare people into obeying them or risk eternal punishment somehow. And it worked because billions of people still follow their religions. It was a brilliant. God/Allah/Jehova is just as legitimate as Ra, Zeus, Kali, Odin etc. I still say that their is nothing wrong with having faith, but I really hate the organizations behind these religions, all of them. And I hate the way they brainwash a lot of people...

I have a friend who worked at a summer camp as a counciler, and one five or six year old girl who belonged to one of the smaller Christian religions told my friend that she really liked the camp and the friends she made and then said "it's too bad that they're all followers of Satan and they're going to Hell." This is why I am against organized religion. Faith is good, great even. I know a few Rabbis and Reverends and Fathers whom I like and respect a great deal.

Geez, I keep contradicting myself. Some placed I'm for religion, others I'm completly against. Hmm. I guess to sum it up, if it does good, I'm all for it. I question the motives of those who formed the religions though, and really hate the fanatics and those who impose it upon others. More than a few people have imposed it upon me. I've been called an infidel, a Satanist and other unkind things for expressing different ideas.

Which is one reason why I'm strictly pro-choice. I have no problems with people being pro-life. That is a decision and a view point you can have for yourself. But I do not think you can make that decision for others. But I know none of you in here would want to do that ;)

I hope this post has not offended anyone. This is just the world according to me.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 9, 2000 05:30:25 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

Entity: <I'd just as soon do away with statehood...> Sorry, I missed this earlier. Say what? Perhaps its just because I'm a Texan and we're all inordinately proud of our state, but I like statehood. Now, personally I agree that we should do the Electoral votes based on percentage of popular vote in each state. The federal income-tax form 1040 is big enough, thanks, and seperate state income-tax forms are as big or bigger in some states. I like the Texas sales-tax. No paperwork, and I only get taxed if I buy things that are not "neccessary for general well being" or something like that. I buy milk, I don't pay tax. I buy a candy-bar, then I pay tax. I like that meathod. With Federal tax, even if we went to a sales-tax, we'd probably have to pay on neccessities as well.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 9, 2000 04:46:20 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

***Kyryn sticks her head in.***

Entity><I'm sorry, but right now they're nullifyng _19,000_ ballots because of that Gore/Buchanan confusion. That's pure Gore right there. > Actually, they are nullifying 19,000 votes because the ballots were punched for more than one candidate. It doesn't matter who the candidate is -- that is standard policy in ANY election. Any voter knows that if you mess up your ballot you can request another one. I've had to do this in one or two elections myself. And I double checked my ballot after I punched it -- like any sensible person would. Now if people were not allowed to request a second ballot if they messed up on the first one, then there may be an issue of improper election protocol on the part of the officials at the polling places. BTW, I've used that particular style of ballot. I used it in several elections in California (a number of years ago) and the only problem that I ever had was because 'I' made a mistake, not because the ballot wasn't clear.

***Kyryn ducks out.***
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Thursday, November 9, 2000 04:35:52 PM
IP: 216.35.46.129

Gunjack> First off, God DOES just want people to follow. Not necessarily blindly, but following all the same.

Secondly: God is not "possessed of Perfect Love." He IS Perfect Love. In much the way "so and so breed like rabits" is to say that so and so those people have lots of kids, almost aspiring to the breeding habits of rodents. Using such an example, Love aspires to God.

Entity> In answer to your original question. Who Knows? I certainly don't. Our lot in life is not to question God, just to choose to obey. Again, I will point to Job. At the end of the book, God dressed Job down for daring to ask "why" and still didn't explain Himself. God is not just. If God were just, we would all go to Hell. All of us. Even the believers. 'Cause we ain't perfect. Because he is NOT just, we can choose to go to Heaven (assuming we do what He tells us to), and God doesn't have to explain himself. In Justice, the authority has to prove its right to have that authority. It has to give its reasons. God doesn't have to bow to our sense of "Justice" and therefore does not owe us an expanation.

God tells His believers to inform everyone else that He exists, and to offer them the choice of following Him. Once, we've done that, our obligation to that person is done. It's their choice. I don't have to Prove God's existance or his worth, I just have to tell others.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 9, 2000 04:22:13 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

You learn something new every day. For the last three days, the lesson has been that it's easier to ask logical questions than to find logical answers... :P In any case, Entity, here's the (extremely late) post I've been promising for the last three days... But first, I've gotta correct a mistake I made earlier. Yup, I'm so high on logic I've started argueing with MYSELF. Kids, don't let this happen to you. :P

Me><<The problem is that by revealing himself directly, God would take away our free will and destroy any semblence of faith.>> This is totally false, and I can't believe that neither I nor anyone else caught it earlier. All through the Bible, God speaks to people directly, personaly smites cities, and violently demonstrates mastery over the universe in front of audiences numbering in the hundred-thousands. Either he violated the free will of all those who witnessed these events (thus making "free will" far less of a priority), or my theory is bull puckey.
Remember, it's about the message, not the messanger. :P

Entity><<How is leaving us in the dark the only way to ensure that our free will stays intact?>> Apparently, it isn't. Sorry about that, and good thinking on your part. <<You're saying that faith isn't actually a means, but an end unto itself. That faith is actually the POINT.>> Indeed I was, and I may be saying it still. I'm really not sure; this is uncharted theological territory for me, and I'm kinda making it up as I go... :P
<<If our belief in God is supposed to be the prize of a grand chicken crumb hunt, then what about the dense people who aren't good at the game?>> I thought religion was supposed to be the "opiate of the masses", a refuge for people too stupid to face reality. :)
First off, I should point out that the "Grand Chicken Crumb Hunt" isn't the only thing leading to God, and probably isn't the most important. Jesus taught his followers to lead others to him by their examples, not their stunningly well-laid-out logical arguements.
In any case, to say that someone is "dense" or "isn't good at the game" is to imply that they have no desire to know Truth. I personaly believe this is bogus; Man has an innate desire to learn and to question his surroundings. Living in a fat, happy, materialistic society may dampen the urge, and too much floundering may lead to Nihlism, but deep down, I doubt anyone just doesn't care.
<<Are they just supposed to follow?>> According to the Bible, that would be pointless.
<<What about someone who looks at all the crumbs and comes to a different conclusion?>> I would humbly submit that they have misinterpreted the evidence. *Looks at what he just wrote* ...That really sounds pompous doesn't it? :P However, I have yet to hear a consistently logical arguement that refutes God and DOESN'T make logical life unlivable.
<<My ultimate question is: Why? Why the "choice" at all? Why throw us in a dark room with clues as to who, if anyone, is outside holding the key?>>The simple truth, in this case, is that we don't know. That is, there isn't enough information given on the subject to draw conclusions. However, I do have some ideas.
Fact: The God described in the Bible is possessed of Perfect Love.
Apparently, this love is shared between the members of the Trinity; God, however, seems to have decided that this was not enough. I believe he created us simply to have someone to share that love with. Keep in mind, the door was originally open and the room lit; the Bible seems to suggest that the door was closed as a result of sin. As to why he keeps the door shut nowadays, I'd say it's because he's said all he plans on saying. Since the fall, God has only spoken and acted to directly advance his plans. Why? I don't know. I still think it has something to do with the importance of Faith, but the Bible doesn't say.

I hope that clears things up, because my head hurts now. I'm gonna go smear some llamas on CS.
Real post later.
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 9, 2000 04:05:57 PM
IP: dialup-209.246.130.177.dallas1.level3.net

Robby: <<<Anyway, you were wondering if I was watching the B5 ep? Any particular reason?>>>

Guess I'm just taken into the idea of watching the run of Babylon 5 for the first time. Damn, I'm beginning to feel like Geordi describing the statue in "First Contact"...

DPH: <<>>

But the number of electoral votes a state gets is based on its size, so either way, smaller states are in the same position.

SJ: <<>>

Neither do I. I missed the last ep, but it sounds like her "secret" (who hadn't guessed it involved something along the lines of her being evil/demonic?) was a bit of a letdown. Frankly, I think Whedon let things ride far too long. The only thread he wrapped up last season was the Adam one. The Spike-with-a-chip-in-his-head and Tara-with-a-secret threads both feel like they're in overtime now. Meanwhile, last season felt incomplete and was generally thought of as a thumbs down.

<<<And with a sad, sad (abridged) sad, sad (and the Sorrow King!) and heavy heart, I must annouce that Hilary Clinton has been elected to the senate.>>>

Is everyone who was a part of that administration just marked for life now because of one horny Arkansanian? IMO, Lazio was an arrogant ass, and I'm satisfied that Hillary won.

<<<I'm so disgusted with this whole process, that I'm almost ready to say we should just cancel the election and let the current bozo-in-chief keep the damn job for another 4 years.>>>

That's what I was thinking today. Days? WEEKS? I don't think so. *sigh* But on the other hand, at least as things stand now, they haven't gone outside limits of reason yet. If they begin contenting the other's victory... that's another story. But if Bush wins... I'm sorry, but right now they're nullifyng _19,000_ ballots because of that Gore/Buchanan confusion. That's pure Gore right there. With this decision coming down to the thousands -- even the hundreds -- every last damn vote will count.

Azarah: <<>>

My feelings on capital punishment right now are that it's simply not practical. Life imprisonment is more cost-effective. It's a theory vs. practice thing. But if it were more cost-effective to put people to death... I would be for that. Call me cold and shallow, but though human life is more important than money, money dictates the quality of life in our world.

<<<We are a Constitutional Republic and while it's not as cool as a Constitutional Monarchy, it is better than a pure Democracy, which IMO is a nice way to say mob rule.>>>

Mob rule, huh? Short of the public surrounding the Capitol with torches and pitchforks demanding the head of the Speaker of the House, I don't get that comparison. How in pure democracy a bad thing? Obviously, it's much less practical than what we have now, but looking at it theoretically... sounds like you've just got a Parliamental, the-little-people-verse-the-well-bred mentality going.

<<<Do you seriously want a Unitary Government? In that case, let's abolish the Senate and have the House select our
President, only we call him Prime Minister.>>>

No...

Look, unless I'm mistaken, the Electoral College is just as "biased" as a popular vote. It's all based on population.

<<<State's rights do exist in limited form, because of Ammendment X.>>>

I'd just as soon do away with statehood. We're a united nation now, not a collective of colonies. Of course, then we risk going backwards... trying to "improve" things beyond the original design... and then we retrogress ourselves and have to start all over again, telling ourselves that -this- time it'll stick.

But I admit I -am- behind federal rather than state legislature wherever applicable. By having individual states differ, it strikes me as counter-productive to social integration.
Entity
Thursday, November 9, 2000 04:02:16 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

RP WARNING!!! The long-anticipated break out!!
Warning: Mildly offensive language and violence that may offend bleeding-heart pinko liberals
**Chappaqua, NY, two evenings ago
The two unknown figures arrive in Hillary Clinton's mansion paid for by various "friends" and the shorter one pulls a battle axes from his coat and hacks open the door, though the security system is alerted. Two guards in red uniforms arrive and try to stop them only to have the second figure pull out a machete and stab them both repeatedly.

"Now, to the basement. You check that map we were sent."

Ten minutes later, they arrive at a cell containing what appears to be a skinhead and two cats, only the skinhead is really Warpmind DeInzane. Attila wakes up and jumps with exictement.

"We are finally free of that bitch and all thso eawful fanfics. Never again shall I read slashfics about Demona and Elisa, nor ones about Petros and Renard. But be careful. Hillary has won and she is at the party, but three guards and a Gore partisan are here. By the way, who are you?"

"Buddy, I'm the guy you were named after." The figure takes off his disguise to reveal himself as Attila the Hun. With some remaining Borg implants, Attila easily disarms the dungeon and lets Attila, Velvet, and Warpmind out. The other figure arrives with a pulsating heart.

"I think the real killer got the third guard. I'll go look for..."

"Not so fast, suckahs. Take off that disguise, snow flake. I know it's you, Colin Powell."

"Wrong, bitch. I'm OJ and I have a machete with yoru name on it."

"Well, I'm Donna Brazille, race-baiting fear monger who worked for Al Gore's campaign and you're a white boy too, OJ."

OJ porceeds to lift Donna Brazille in the air as Attila the Hun swings low with his axe and cuts off one of Donna Brazille's legs, and then swings again to to take off the other. OJ drops her and then cuts off her arms.

"Now, what will you do, bite my kneecaps?"

Velvet points to a tub and starts talking. "Meow!! That tub is full of salt. Let's put her, there."

"Good idea, kitty." Warpmind tosses Donna Brazille's remaining body tosses her into the tub full of salt and then puts the top on. OJ takes some small knives to seal the tub and to muffle the screams of severe pain and anguish as Donna's bloody stumps are exposed to salt.

OJ puts the disguise back on. "Well, I should return to my disguise and surprise Ted Turner next time we meet."

"Good luck, friend," Attila the Hun says, "Now, cat, it's time to get all of you back to your own place and I think we should hurry, before the cops catch us."**
END RP!!

GXB> I am surprised you honestly thought Bush had any chance of winning New York.

Todd> I think if luther lived longer, he'd be more likely to return to the Catholic Church. If he met this Pope, he'd ask to be reconfirmed by him, especially after last year. There are still people that beleive the Pope is the anti-Christ. Sadly, one is President of a University in America, but then again, Al Gore is a closet anti-Catholic, so I'm not too shocked by that.

DPH> First of all, when you respond, you never address anyone by name. It takes me a while to know you're referring to me sometimes. You might want to think about posting names you respond to. It looks like you may be ignoring someone.

Well, the Constitutuion Party is very small and is mostly concerend with having everything as it was under the Constitution, though they are a bit overly religious. politics.com may mention some such parties, though they don't really advertise.

Florida results> I never knew Pat Buchanan had such an appeal to elderly Jewish voters :)

Well, it hsould be decided by tonight. I hope it's tied, so without an electroal majority, the US House decides it by state. This is a great way to start of the upcoming century :)

If Bush wins, New Hampshire's primary will lose most of its prominence.

If Gore wins, the Republicans will win the Senate.

Either way, I am prepared for some fun on C-Span for the next few years :)

Electoral College> I support it. I think we shoudl scrap the Popular vote and go back to voting for Electors. At least we might like our elector. Each Elector would be stated and the state would be drawn into the elector district by the state Senate of that state, so Alaska would have three districts. It would probably combine legislative districts or any approach. Each electro would state who they are for and we can vote on that or we may have an Elector we really like. At least it will prove more fun and unusual.

I also think the US Senate shoudl be determined by the state legislatures, though that woudl require a Constitutional Ammendment, since one Ammendment elminiated that process :(

Finally, the United States is _NOT_ a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic and while it's not as cool as a Constitutional Monarchy, it is better than a pure Democracy, which IMO is a nice way to say mob rule.

We are also a Federal Republic with balances of power. The Electroal College balances State and Federal power in its own check and balance, like how the House and Senate keep each other in check.

Entity> Do you seriously want a Unitary Government? In that case, let's abolish the Senate and have the House select our President, only we call him Prime Minister.

State's rights do exist in limited form, because of Ammendment X. Now, I don't like how it is used as a simile for racism, but it is not dead, just weaker than the Federal Government as we are Federal system, not a Unitary one or a Confederation.

Niamhgold> Well, you won't reveal yoru choice, but out of curiousity, who is your Congressman, Bass or Sununu? IMO, I find it sad that we talk so much about the President, but the other races are just as important, in fact, they are more important. I'm glad SJ mentions Davis and Allen, since he pays attention to the other races. My Congressman is Bill Jefferson, a crook who had no opposition, though he always wins. Entity knows nothing about his Senator, Mike DeWine. GXB has not given his opinion on Ben Gillman, who I think is his Congressman. I tend to ask about Senator and on some occasions Congressional, because I hoep people don't forget the races that will affect much more directly than Bush or Gore. I know Coyote's Congressman is David Bonior and that crazy old Debbie was running against Spence Abraham who narrowly lost thanks to the damned AFL-CIO. I know Kaioto's Senator is fat, worthless, alcholic, degenerate tick Ted Kennedy who will be re-elected unless God proves his love and sends Teddy straight to Hell. I guess maybe I'm just too into politics, especially those outside my own area.

Infinity> Actually your position could be called pro-life with exceptions. In any event, the law won't cahnge, except for partial birth abortions if Bush wins.

SJ> You beat me to the punch on those funny Senate seats.

Well, Carnahan's victory is fitting. When you hear about all the dead people who vote, I think it's time one was finally elected :) The funny thing is, a Judge let the polls remain open in St. Louis for an extra hour, which if that's dispute could change a few things, but I doubt it. Also, Gephardt will be the one to educate Carnahna's widow on politics so he will be controlling a Senator. Sneaky little kraut, ain't he. If Talent was Governor, he could re-appoint Ashcroft :)

When Mary Bono was elected, she earned her right to serve, and I happen to like her, though I miss Sonny who would have defeated that loony Barabara Boxer in 98 if he didn't die.

In other Senate races, Jon Corzine succesfully purchased a Senate seat in New Jersey for $63 million. Minnesota loses populist appeal as a Dayton is elected to the Senate easily defeating Rod grams who was too conservative. In other news, there will be another Kennedy in Congress. Republican Mark Kennedy won the Second District of Minnesota against Minge. Is that your district, Jessie?

Azarah> Well, while Stockwell's veiws may win in the US, he strikes me as too radical for Canada and even if the Alliance had a chance of winning, I don't think Canada wants to rock the boat, though I know nothing about Canada. I also don't think the equivalent of a House Speaker should have that much power as your Prime Minister has.

I'll IM you next time I see you on-line.

Now, I'm off to Business Policy Class.

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Thursday, November 9, 2000 02:46:21 PM
IP: 141.164.76.254

Green Baron> Another tasty topic for international debate would be capital punnishment, which I am certain Mr.Day and the Alliance party would be reinstating, should they ever be elected. This is yet another reason why I would emmigrate, should Stockwell Day ever become Prime Misister (though at least he can speak French better than Manning ;)..)
I will NEVER live in a country which the death penalty is practiced as punnishment for any crime, and I will not vote for a man who rollerblades once halfway around a parking lot (which was emptied specifically for this two seconds of fame) just so that a wonderful photo-op of the "young daring new politician" could be achieved.
(0.02$)
boy, am I ever posting a lot today.. :)
Love,
Azarah
Somewhere in the Great White North (with polar bears..)
Thursday, November 9, 2000 01:30:48 PM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Me again> I was just catching up on reading. The historical precident that most will probably cite about the Electoral Vote countering the Popular Vote is the Hays-Tilden election of 1876. As was said, the vote was close so a back room deal was made. Tilden would concede in exchange for the end of Reconstruction in the south. Just some FYI from the son of a History major.
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Thursday, November 9, 2000 11:03:11 AM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

Taleweaver>> Aaaah, I see.. thanks for clearing that up
But you guys should really get this surface mail coefficent problem resolved soon ;)
Love
Azarah
Thursday, November 9, 2000 10:46:32 AM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Azarah> In answer to your question. Clinton is still pres until Janurary. From the time the election results are in to the time the next guy takes the oath of office, an official is a period called lame duck. Basically, there's not enough time for them to do much, policy-wise and it won't change the fact that they are out of a job come inauguration. I know there is a more official definition, but basically for stuff like the Mideast crisi going on now and anything big, Clinton is still in charge.
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Thursday, November 9, 2000 10:36:40 AM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

******Azarah enters, yawning********

Late night and no sleep for Azarah :(

Anyway, I was just thinking, for all you in the States... Who exactly IS the leader of your country at this moment? What if there's some mega-huge crisis, who orders everyone around? Still Clinton or... what?

Just wonderin'

Love

*Azarah stumbles out, heading for bed*
Azarah - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 9, 2000 10:18:28 AM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

I will confess that, while in some ways I was sorry to see Willow and Oz break up, I also felt a slight sense of relief over it at the same time, for one simple reason: I'd been a little nervous after setting up plans for Merlin and Mary Sefton to gradually develop a relationship in TGS: Pendragon that some of our readers might think that we were copying Willow and Oz (a magic-user and a werewolf falling in love with each other). Of course, I did see to it that Mary's style of lycanthropy would be different from Oz's (he turns into a wolf-like creature on the night of the full moon, the night before it, and the night after, while she turns into a wolf by day every day; he goes wild and ravenous as a wolf and has to be locked up, she doesn't). But still, I was a bit nervous (particularly since a few of the TGS staff members did mention Willow and Oz when I first submitted the idea during Breakdowns). The fact that Willow and Oz as an item is now history, therefore, has made that danger less likely.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 9, 2000 06:56:38 AM
IP: 216.87.46.184.dialup-stl.primary.net

Baby News- He's growing and kicking, what more can be said? ;o) And yes Wilek, she did..., "what". Can't tell her nothing though, cause... "when you have sumthin kickin inside you and you push it out from the head of ur d*ck, then you can tell me what I put in my body." I mean, I dunno... I don't. She is ignorance in it's purest, incarnate form. But thanks for the welcome back!

Official news- 35 weeks/Your pregnancy is progressing and you may have trouble sleeping at night. Some claim that this is mother nature's way of preparing you for life with a new baby. Others believe it is caused by worrying about the health of your baby, labor, and/or parenting. There are also numerous physical reasons that sleep may be difficult. For one going the bathroom every 45 minutes isn't conducive to sleep, nor is a constant backache. Try doing pelvic tilts before bed, limiting fluids after a certain time, and being tired when you go to bed.

Your baby weighs about 4 pounds 12 ounces right now, although later in pregnancy there is more room for variation than in the beginning of pregnancy. Your baby is putting on an average of .5 pounds a week at this point. The length is reaching 18 inches from head to toe, as opposed to the earlier measurements from crown to rump. All organ systems have been present for a long time, now they are just putting on the final touches before birth.

Marilyn Manson Concert- To hell with him being a reverend in the church of Satan, I'd vote this fool for president! No one can truly represent how screwed and backward ass this country is than him! 11/7/00 about 8:47pm, I blow up wayy hard waiting in line at The Tabernacle, talking sum bullcrap that I'll never truly remember. But I remember seeing the shadow of Mr. Manson on the white curtain they stood behind..., the show was .... I don't wanna use the words "religious experience", but that's the only thing I know that comes close. The new songs he played, sounded great, but I guess they would to anyone in my state of mind at the tyme. And seeing him stretch into this super demonic, 20 foot tall being, was hella great!!! I'm definitely a renewed Manson fan, can't wait for the new album!! :o)

"anti-song and anti-me, i don't deserve a chance to be. antipeople now you've gone to far, here's your anti-christ superstar."

<<Cause right now, things are breaking down into "republicans vs. democrats" in here.>>
Well that sux! I remember sumone sayin it's the democrips and the rebloodicans..., grab ur AK!!! Anyway, it doesn't really matter who wins, it's not about winning, it's about voting for the person that seems to give a rats ass about what you think people need to give a rats ass about. In anycase, I voted Gore- I'm tryin to be a good loser!!! But I kinda dig all the weirdness, prove ur solitary vote counts!

WHAT... pierced nipps!!? That just hit me... Hey, if ur gonna pierce them, you gotta show them!!
jackal
Thursday, November 9, 2000 02:39:51 AM
IP: ac9d96a4.ipt.aol.com

*Lynati pokes her head through the curtains*

Ahhh! fun! new kicks!

Azarah: thank you again for the boot. It'll be useful here, at "Art Boot Camp" (yes that is actually what KCAI's foundation year is referred to as. occasionally.)
...Somebody in the real world hugged me five minutes ago. twice! and i didn't freak out! (i really am improving...)

Gside: we-ell, I AM basically computer illiterate...
and the song thing was aimed, i believe, at Gunjack Valentine concerning "Dust in the wind"...at least, I think it was; I forgot to check who that comment was actually in response to and neglected the person's name... my bad.
I usually try to write out parts of my responses so i remember what I want to say to who -I have a really bad memory.

wheee!
this morning, it started to rain lightly as I was going back to the dorm-and the rain, i noticed, was bouncing off of my hand. Freezing rain! icicles, but no snow!
my afternoon class got out an hour early, and i tried to come here to post, but the computer couldn't reach the site :(
But I made it now!

belated things...
Dana Carvey! i think he did some humorous material on child raising that was on comedy central-It took me this long to remember his name.

My vote for best halloween Movie (other than the RHPS)
is Army of Darkness.

Also, i got that reference to...I forget what, exactly.
but I got it!

Next time I come in, i'll wear my happy-coat.

*Lynati-the-easily-confused disappears back throught the curtains*
Lynati
Thursday, November 9, 2000 12:05:16 AM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Election Wrap-Up....Sort of.......

Well, the people of the United States are in a quandry. Who will be the next president? Who the hell knows.

I'm so utterly pissed now. They PROMISED a winner. I've had to deal with this goddamn election for TWO YEARS, and I wanted a winner. Bush, Gore, Ralph freakin' Nader, it doesn't matter, I wanted it to end last night so that I could go on with my life. So that the news department should be focused once more on the stories that truly matter, such as the recently breaking story that Britney Spears got her nipps pierced (I'm still shaking my head at that). But no. Now we get at least a couple more days of election coverup. What a clusterf*ck.

And I mean it, we're screwed either way. Right now, when all the available votes are counted, Bush could win. Or maybe Gore could win. But here's the deal--whoever loses is almost certainly gonna contest it, probably in court. Then it won't be 10 days till all the absentee ballots are counted, so we could have a winner in Florida (by tomorrow, I'm hearing), BUT when the results from the absentee ballots come back next week, it could swing the vote the other way! Say Bush wins Florida. But if the absentee ballots are for Gore, he wins! It's the most bizarre situation I think we could have possibly wound up with.

And now I here that there is a big controversy being raised by Democrats who are saying that the way certain ballots were constructed people who wanted to vote for Gore instead were duped into voting for Buchanan. They're thinking of, or planning to, contest that in court. Do you understand the ramifications of this? BOTH THESE ASSHOLES ARE GONNA FIGHT OVER EVERY SINGLE VOTE. It's the pissing contest to end all pissing contests.

I'm so disgusted with this whole process, that I'm almost ready to say we should just cancel the election and let the current bozo-in-chief keep the damn job for another 4 years. At least we know where we stand with him. He'll bang the purity out of a few interns, and that will be that (especially with the wife away now...).

I don't want a controversy. I just want it over with. Put both these jackasses in a room, blindfold them, have them play pin the tail on Ralph Nader, and whoever wins gets the White House. Just, for the love of God, end it.

And in other election news.....

Well, I was immensely happy last night about one thing: My local boy, George Allen, beat the bejeezus out of incumbent Democrat senator Chuck Robb. This was a long, expensive, and ugly election here in VA, but it ended the way I wanted it too. That makes me happy, cause that effects me personally. I still want Bush to win, but even if he does lose, at least my local guy won.

Plus my other local boy, House Representative Tom Davis, won again.

And to complete my local election coverage, to further piss off any and all liberals in my state, I voted yes on a proposed amendment to the VA constitution that would give the citizens of VA more rights to hunt and fish. I mean, I may have never hunted a day in my life, but there's no reason that the rednecks in my state shouldn't have an easier time going out and killing defenseless animals. When they are in season, of course.

In national news, the election that I find most interesting is the one in Missouri, where the corpse won over the incumbent Gov. Ashcroft. This is a crock of sh!t if you ask me. No way in hell this should be allowed. His widow wants to serve.....This is as bad as the Sonny Bono incident. Sonny Bono runs into a tree, and they want a replacement, so who do they find? His wife! That was a stupid move then, and this is a stupid move now. Neither women have any right to serve the office. "The Widow Bono" should have never gotten in there, and neither should this other woman.

And with a sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad (and the Sorrow King!) and heavy heart, I must annouce that Hilary Clinton has been elected to the senate. Enjoy it, you dumb c!nt.
Too bad Rudy didn't run against her. My latest conspiracy theory is that, somehow and someway, she gave him cancer. I wouldn't put it past her. I would think that Bill's own penis would be in trouble being married to her, but I don't think it's been anywhere near her in 20 years.

***BUFFY AND ANGEL SPOILERS***
Maybe it was because I was preoccupied with the elections, but I wasn't entirely thrilled with either episode of Buffy or Angel. It's not that I didn't like them, I just wasn't that in to them.

BUFFY: There were lots of things that I did like about Buffy. Even though she does not seem to be winning any fans in here, I like Glory. She has potential to be an interesting villain. She does have a personality like Cordy, but I like the fact that she can kick Buffy's ass. I personally find it way to static for the hero (in this case, Buffy) to walk around as a virtually unstoppable force. Buffy hasn't had a challenge in ages. Harmony is no threat, Adam last season was one lame-ass villain (who got beaten WAY too easily), and the various vampires and demons in the show are just cannon fodder. It's become almost like "Tonight's Monster of the Week will be...." I'm happy to see a villain who can give Buffy a challenge. And I think that once Joss fills us in on exactly what Glory is (I'm doubting she's the Anti-Christ, which is one of the current rumors), we'll all be pleased.

I was glad to see Buffy finally tell someone else about Dawn. Dawn, it would seem, may be very dangerous. Since her arrival, not only has Joyce become ill, but a half dozen people have become insane. Maybe Giles can get to the bottom of it.

And, as usual, there were lots of little bits spread throughout the episode that I loved. Anya, and her excitement at having a place in the world (finally). Xander, as usual (and am I mistaken, or has he buffed up?). Riley in a monster bar. And, of course, the Spike fantasy, which was utterly hilarious. One minute they're fighting (how about that Buffy Hurricanrana!!!), the next it's sweet love! ;)

The one thing I DIDN'T like was the Tara main plot. Tara curses them so that they won't see her demon side, which of course causes trouble for the Scooby gang. Her hillbilly family arriving. Most people seem to think her family gave her a raw deal. But see, I don't. I mean, maybe they were a little overzealous, but if I found out or thought that a family member had a demon inside of them (and for some of my family members, I have suspicions), I'd be a little freaked. I suppose the whole "we have to control what you are" theme in relation to Tara's alleged demon quotient was some sort of allegory about trying to control her sexuality. Frankly, I don't care, because I've finally made up my mind about Tar.
I DON'T LIKE HER.
I'm sorry, I like Oz. I'm an Oz man. I'm firmly in the camp of Oz. (Oz? Ozzzzzz...........Dum Dum......Dum Dum, Dum Dum, Dum Dum.....Aiii! Aiiii! Aiii!!! ) To me, Willow will always be only for Oz. I'm jealous. I liked Oz, thought that he and Willow were absolutely the cutest and best couple in all of Buffy, and I'm still upset that he's gone. I don't like this new person. She's taken Willow away from poor Oz. Hellcat! That's almost as bad as trading Angel for Riley. Almost. So Tara gets a thumbs down from me.

ANGEL: I must admitt, I really didn't watch this one that closely since I was paying attention to the election. There were things that I liked about it, though. Gunn is coming into his own as a character, and I'm liking him more and more. He's impressive, and I loved the comedic bits that he got in this episode. Angel getting psychotherapy is a hilarious idea in and of itself, and the segments with the fake swami were entertaining. But the best parts in the whole show, without a doubt, go to Wesley. Wesley pretending to be Angel is hilarious. And he finally gets some nookie! And maybe it's just me, but the final moments of that episode were, IMO, some of the funniest in the history of the show. Angel: "I am not a eunech!" Overall, a funny, entertaining episode.

And next week's shows will be exceptionally good, because we get to see the return of Drusilla!!! :)
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 11:49:23 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

DPH enters the room confessing to be extremely near sighted. This is after the left earpiece on the frames for his glasses just broke. Beforehand, twice, the RIGHT earpiece had broken off.

Idiot will not admit to being wrong because when a package says it will take 55-60 minutes to cook it WILL take that long. This idiot does not need to be in the kitchen.

**ELECTORAL COLLEGE DEBATE**
I am 100% against going by sheer popular vote because candidates would just ignore smaller states. It's kinda funny having each major candidate or supporter make as many stops in my state as there are electoral votes.

However, I think the votes for each state oughta be split according to the popular vote: if a candidate gets 40% of the vote, the candidate gets 40% of the electoral college votes. 'Winner take all' makes it too easy for staticians right now.
**END ELECTORAL COLLEGE**

Florida recall - if I was the winner, yes, I would to make sure that those votes were right just so I could say that I am above reproach. A margin of victory by up to 5% should be recounted just to make sure because it is so close.

Right now, I am not wearing my glasses right now because they are being repaired. Stubbornness seems to run in my family, especiall qwih my dad. he does not ever want to admit o eing wrong at all, even when confronted with the truth. He ells my namee, and I ask 'what' before standing p becase I do not feel feel like getting up for a few minutes to see something on tv and sit down down again. He elled my name thrice and I asked "what" thrice to figure out why he wanted me so I can figuree out whether or not I needed to get up. Now, he wants an apology for me yelling at him asking 'wjat he wants' before I got up. Time-out, I have back problems and am trying to rest my back as long as possible.

I plan on visiting m doctor either Friday or Monday to see about my back problems. yesterday was elections, well, Wednesday nights are alwas hectic because I am an SBC.

DPH pauses at this point before typing to wait for his glasses so that he can see what the heck is typing. For all I know, the above post is completely filled with typos and I do not want a warrant for my arrest by the typo police.

yep, I will not seek o improve m relationship with my dad until i move out ecause there is no room for me to compromise for me while I am living under his roof.

That's all for now, as I am still waiting for my glasses to be fixed.
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 11:06:25 PM
IP: max1-29.cwy.cei.net

Entity- Actually, with the electoral college, they don't *always* vote purely on popularity. If an election is really close, a member of the college *can* change the direction the state goes, depending on what they think is what is needed, (and based on actual public feeling prior to election and not just the people who voted.) Its been a long time since this happened, and its only happened a couple times, but it has happened. (And its been almost as long since I learned about this in history class, so I don't remember the specifics, or even which election) but basically... In one election, it was a near tie. One state, the last one to go, would make all the difference. (Much like Florida in this election.) And the vote was close. Sooo... What the electoral college did was talk to the president-to-be, and struck a deal. If he guaranteed certain benefits for the state and certain issues, the state would give him the nod. He agreed to their criteria, and won, despite losing the popular vote by a small bit. Also, it *is* less needed today, what with cable and news networks and all able to inform anyone who cares to pay attention. But until the advent of television, there was honestly no real way to inform a mass ammount of people, (seeing as how newspapers couldn't really give a feel for the canidates, and travel arrangements used to be much more difficult...) so most voters WERE uneducated. But the fact is, this is the first election in a long time where its really been an issue... Like I said before, the electoral college has flaws, but we don't have a better system set up that would work. (Since simple popular vote still leaves out all the people who did not vote and is still inacurate, and unfortunatley, largely uneducated.)

As for downsides to internet voting, well, how would a person prove their identity? Social security numbers would be about the only way to make it work, and almost anyone could get ahold of that, including in my case at the very least, every single educator at my school. So internet voting is an impossibility. Absentee ballots with no restrictions are also problematic, because with a bit of trickery, and the fact that the things aren't really processed until much later, it *is* possible to vote twice if you work fast enough. What we really need is mechanical ballots that register everything and count them up immediatley, which would avoid recounts, and be able to track individual voters much better.

ANyway, you were wondering if I was watching the B5 ep? Any particular reason?
Robby
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 10:18:34 PM
IP: spider-wo032.proxy.aol.com

*enters*

Well people looks like the news was false about my ankle being better. I went to the doctor today because my foot is getting more bruised and is still swollen and it still hurts a bit. Turns out, I have a torn ligament! So, I have to wear a brace and use crutches for at least the next week. :( Ain't life a bitch sometimes? >:P
Mary Flanders
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 09:29:12 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

let's see...
Wilek Nereus>> <cabinet position> sweet! as my first official duty, I'll extend the Smithsonian to include a museum of animation.

UPDATES!!
SAT II>> 750, 760, and a 600 in math. I'm never taking an SAT again.
Relationship stuff>> he changed his mind. He wants her. and he might be spending thanksgiving weekend at her house.
Desktop Publishing project>> I guess it saved. I either got a 95 or a 100.

Happiness!
Daphne, apprentice-wordsmith - [l.grow_yophilly@excite.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 09:24:15 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.196.243.philadelphia1.level3.net

Are you tired of choosing between the lesser of two evils? Maybe you should have voted for Cthulu.

New Pendragon: Very nice once again. I suspect the season will end on a clifhanger. **SPOILER** Had an idea for a line by Arthur: "Get me a lance. I've done this before, I can do it again."**/SPOILER**

Guandalug> <<Typical thing for a programmer - re-using designs and code-pieces>>: Heck yeah. Why do you think they invented cut and paste in the first place?
<<If there's anything you really want to see in the archive>>: Umm, nope. Think I've used up my supply of ideas for the next couple decades.

Warpmind> If you didn't notice, THL is back up.

Spacebabie> <<if you want to pray to the giant wheel of cheese>>: Depends on who old the cheese is.

Lynati> <<As much of it as I understood, anyway>>: What didn't you get? If it was a parenthetical statement, it probably wasn't important.
<<what about the song? who was it written by?>>: You mean Burn On? Randy Newman, a person who seems to have his tongue permanently attached to his cheek (other songs of his were Short People, Political Science, and You Can Leave Your Hat On).

Wilek> <<Wonder if I should sell it as a main course, a dessert, or a beverage>>: The Iron Chefs have done all three.
<<Vivi is basically a slight redesign of the Black Mage from FF1>>: And 3 and 5. Actually, I don't think he's redesigned at all, just rendered. And maybe a tad young.
<<decent games for it (probably Final Fantasy 10 and little else>>: What do you think about Square going for an increasing online component? XI is supposed to be omline only, and I like being able to just go and hack and slash on my own.
<<Ah...<redoubles determination to find a demo of this thing>>: Go to www.download.com , search for "worms" and they should be in the first few entries. I'm not sure if they put out a demo for the original.
<<Can't be as bad as the eclair>>: Oh, no. This is much worse. Much, much, much worse. It involves a level of pervsion that is best flushed from your memory.
<<Those are pretty much my system's specs (except I have a 450 Mhz processor)...I feel so old>>: Well, the thing is, yours was good for when you got it, so it is still viable today. When you get a new computer, you want it to last you a little while before people just outright ridicule you. This summer I moved from a 233 to a 900 MHz.
<<oddly enough, my computer can play Quake 3 just fine>>: Really? I'm not really into FPSs, so I don't really know what the sysreqs are like for them.
<<12 gigs...<buries face in claws, and vice versa>>>: But how soon until you get around to adding that second hard drive? But then, I am on very high broadband, so my perceptions of how fast someone can suck down data are skewed.
<<Wayne Barlowe seems to have had a much better tour guide>>: I really need to get his other books (only extraterrestrials so far).

Entity> <<Everyone go and download "Cows With Guns.">>: Been there, done that, waiting for the mood to strike.

Aris> <<Socrates was among other things accused of claiming that the Sun was a burning rock>>: Well, it's not rock. Nothing is at that temperature, anyway.
<<If a process of elimination was taking place>>: "It's the Executive Tournament. This week, you get to decide between the Neo-Nazi and the Communist candidates." It would be interesting to see some of the lower level match ups, I think.

Welcome Courtney.

Interesting note, since the Dewy headline has bee brought up: The headline on today's Targum was "Too Close to Call."

I heard someone say that the electoral college was put into place to prevent local polititians mess up the national election.

What else could I put up after Burn On besides Ring of Fire by Johnny Cash? Other than We Didn't Start the Fire, This Wheel's on Fire, Light My Fire, or Vangelis (from Chariots of Fire), that is.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 08:58:17 PM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

How many posts till you violate one of the CR rules? :)

Electoral College> I knew what the rationale behind it was, though SJ's and Todd's comments have made it a little clearer. Still, I don't understand how it was supposed to serve that rationale: the College members vote based exclusively on the popular vote. The only thing it does is unbalance the outcome by making each state all or nothing, not remove the responsibility from the voters.

Re: Robby> Why is some form of it still needed? I don't see how strict popular vote has a downside. For that matter, I don't see how internet voting, absentee ballots with no restrictions, etc. have downsides, either.

B5> I was just watching the latest ep, too, and was actually thinking: I wonder if Rob's watching this one.
Entity
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 08:08:24 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Picked up some of McFarlane toys anime line today. Ryoko, Kaneda, and Kaneda's bike. ANd I'm a bit dissapointed. The detail is FABULOUS, but the characters have *no* poseability. Ryoko has one leg permanetly bent, so the only way she can stand is to use a base... And Kaneda can't even sit down in his own bike or hold his gun! And even if Kaneda COULD bend at the waist, he wouldn't fit into the bike! Basically, these "toys" I've been excited about for months are really just models, which irks me... If they were going to lack the ability to move, why not just make them models in the first place? They'd look better...

Watching B5 right now. Bit of a shock to see Walter Keonig without his "accent"...

Spacebabie- Ah, good to know that you realise Slayers is good stuff. The way you described it made it seem otherwise. As far as how Fox will handle Lina's loss of power, my theory is, since they never actually say explicitly what "that time of the month" is, they MIGHT leave it in. Or at least, Cartoon Network would. Fox... My guess is we'll instead get the line,"time of the month" redubbed as "every now and again", along with a couple other changed lines, so we'll get "I can't use my powers. I used them all up for a while, I'm kinda drained."
"That can happen?"
"Yeah, sometimes."
"Hmm, yeah, I seem to remember a magic lady in my childhood who had the same thing happen to her every now and again."
"WHAT? SO why did you ask if you aleady knew?"
"Uhm..."

But that would take some common sense. My friends and I all believe it'll actually be edited to say "I lose my powers when there's a full moon every month." (WHich will totally ignore the fact its broad daylight, but that's the whole gag about the bad editing.)

Entity- I watched the daily show coverage. It was the only coverage I cared about, since I knew it would be the only entertaining coverage... It was indeed fun. ANd I also agree its a shame Dole didn't act four years ago like he does now... He's got a great personality! When he does talk shows, he's awesome! When he ran for president, well...

As far as your point about the DBZ music, I see what you're saying now and agree. Since for a large span of episodes it seems like they only had three instrumentals to use, they not only overused them, but also used them badly. Ah well, they're getting better. (If you want the japanese music, you could always try the Spanish channel Telemundo version... Or hunt for the soundtrack online. It's out there...)

Voting- I had a long ramble on this typed out, looking it over, and realized I was rambling. So what it boils down to is this. The electoral collage has flaws in it, but we don't really have anything better thought up that would work, since sheer popular vote has even MORE flaws in it than the electoral collage.
Robby
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 07:45:31 PM
IP: spider-tr044.proxy.aol.com

Hello all!
This election is getting annoying very quickly!

Electoral: My History teacher was explaining this to us today. He said it was created by the "Founding Fathers" because they thought the American people totally incapable of choosing a leader. Our class voted yesterday and it proved that the Fathers were right. Half the people didn't even vote! So I just wanted to clear that up.

Mary: << Love Sick School Girl Rant>> Isn't it a shame that the guys who you want to marry and are just WOW, are cartoons or fictional characters? I know how that is.

Wilek: I may be a beginner in Wicca, but from what more experienced Wiccans say, yes, there is feedback.

Okay, now I gotta go. I have three tests tomorrow and I really need to study. They are in German, Math, and Econ. Well, bye!
WinterWitch
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 06:59:59 PM
IP: ppp-63-202-222-51.dialup.snrf01.pacbell.net

As I recall, the reason for the Electoral College was that the Founding Fathers didn't want the people to directly elect the President, because they were suspicious of democracy in the popular sense of the word; they viewed it as "mob rule". It was a question of: "Who would you rather have elect the president? A crowd of dimwits on the mental and moral level of Homer Simpson, or a group of intelligent, educated, politically aware individuals who will cast their votes according to a carefully thought out decision on what's best for the country rather than on an idle whim?"
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 06:31:04 PM
IP: 216.87.46.190.dialup-stl.primary.net

Just a small response to SJ...

I've thought the Electoral College to be bullcrap long before this election even got underway. I didn't mean that I think it should be abolished literally *now*, *as* the race is being decided. My point was that this election will probably cause it to be done away with, but only after Gore loses. The Electoral College serves absolutely no purpose. I can't even figure out what purpose it could've had back in the day. All it does is treat states like individual sub-countries. State rights are a century-dead issue. Let's move on. As far as I'm concerned, we could simply be called the United Land of America.
Entity
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 06:00:21 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

****Kyryn sticks her head in.****

Site Problems> Apparently the main TGS server is down. I've sent email to notify Chris Rogers of the problem. Hopefully things will be resolved soon.

****Kyryn disappears.****
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 05:02:05 PM
IP: 216.35.46.129

Jesus, they weren't kidding when they called this "InDecision 2000".

You realize that we're screwed no matter what happens, don't you? If Gore wins now, Bush will probably contest. If Bush wins now, Gore could contest. This is like some sort of bad acid trip that never seems to end.

But let's ALL take a huge step back and try and be non-partisan in our anticipation for the ultimate verdict. We're gonna get bickering if this thing continues. Cause right now, things are breaking down into "republicans vs. democrats" in here.

Entity thinks that the electoral college should be abolished. Of course, it's because his man is ahead in the popular vote.

Coyote (who I'm assuming is Republican, at least for this election) is saying that we should keep the electoral college cause otherwise we'd have to recount the popular vote, and also because Bush very well could win Florida.

Let's keep a level ahead until we finally find out which of these two schmucks has won this damn thing. Then the gloating can commence, for either side.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 04:47:18 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Taleweaver: Who's losing sleep? I may be a news junkie right now, but I'm no fool ... I slept until 1 this afternoon. ;)
Coyote the Bando
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 04:40:33 PM
IP: 216.28.101.91

Who would have thought that two low energy candidates could generate such a high interest election. There should probably get to a decision before people realize who they voted for and start grumbling. Either way the sword cuts, this isn't an auspicious start for a president. Squeeking by with 49%, they'll be lucky if they get anything done during their term.

Coyote> Get some sleep. There's no need to lose sleep over this. I personally hold little stock in who traditionally votes for what. Otherwise, I'd still be scratching my head over how Gore could loose TN and Bush carry only NH. The decision will be known soon enough.

Electoral College> I think it should be done away with in it's current form. This all or nothing mode really doesn't represent the people. I certainly wouldn't mind a percentage split. But recounting the popular vote isn't as onerous a task as it used to be.

TGS> Has anyone else had trouble accessing the site? I was going to read Pendragon, but I can't even get there. Is the server down?
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 04:37:59 PM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

Apologies for the double post, but since the vote irregularities were something I brought up, click my name link for an explanation on one of those that popped up ... the forgotten ballot box that was found in the preschool this morning.
Coyote again
Algonac, Michigan
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 04:34:44 PM
IP: 216.28.101.91

**drags into the room puffy-eyed**

Be forewarned, this is all election stuff forthcoming ...

First off ... to those saying the Electoral College should be disbanded ... might I point out that I'm now in my ... 20th hour of watching CNN, and they have just pointed out that were it not for the Electoral College, the *ENTIRE* popular vote would have to be recounted currently, not just Florida.

Secondly, to those who are saying the recount should go Gore's way, I might also point out that 30 minutes ago CNN said it was a "100-to-one chance" that the recount would swing it.

Might I also add that Florida's overseas absentee ballots have not been counted, as well ... they have a ten-day grace period and come primarily from military personnel, who have historically voted Republican.

Now, going on to a few more points here ... I also agree with Mara and Entity that I wish Dole had shown a little bit of the loose personality he has now in the previous election, then maybe people would've seen that he was *human* as opposed to an uninterested rock as he was portrayed.

Also, there is a huge amount of screaming on both sides over vote irregularities, and not just in Florida ... I myself am planning on zipping off an e-mail to my Republican sister in Missouri to find out what she thinks of Ashcroft's allegations of partisan vote fraud in the ruling to keep St. Louis' polls open. Even with *that*, at least one of the complaints ... that voters in Palm Beach, due to a printing complication, accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan when they wanted Gore ... is irresponsible whining. If you're gonna exercise your right to vote, then you really should *carefully* read your ballot before you cast your vote, y'know? I mean, I knew most of the stuff on the Michigan ballot, but I *still* carefully read the voting machine and every single little thing up there before I cast the vote and opening the curtain back up. Being lazy is *no* excuse.

That turned into a rant, didn't it? I'm sorry 'bout that. I think I'll duck out now ... :)
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 04:02:49 PM
IP: 216.28.101.91

Dont know if anyone else has trouble seeing the comment room images as well.. I think there may be some html problems.
Spacebabie
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 03:19:17 PM
IP: user-37kap05.dialup.mindspring.com

Well, I missed Buffy and Angel last night, because I thought they were still in reruns and didn't set a tape. I just love WB's method of airing their shows. You have to watch every night, rerun or not, this way.

With regards to the election, I'd like to faithfully note that George W. Bush has NOT won yet (though he probably will). While Gore hasn't actually won Florida yet, neither has George Dubbuya. Last I heard the margin between the voting results was 1,700. It may even be as low as _260_ if what I picked up a little later isn't just rumor.

Even though Gore has won the popular vote by 200,000 and is currently leading in electoral votes, that's not good enough.

Insanity. That stupid College needs to go. And it's not good enough if THIS election encourages the powers-that-be to finally do it. We're about to enter an age of darkness, a world of fear, where superstition and the sword will rule... all because of that dumb College!

*sigh*

Doug: <<<On whether he exists, I have faith that he does and so do millions of other people. That is enough to prove his existence IMO.>>>

I hope that's just your abridged version...

Robby: <<<As far as Funimation's music for DBZ, I rather like a lot of it. Particularly the Vegeta theme and the crazy Android music. Besides, some of the japanese music was... rather kooky. AHh well...>>>

I like a lot of the Funimation music, too. (The Android music is the best from this season, IMO. My favorite from last season was the Ginyu-body-switch theme, which has been reused since and is now kind of stale...) But anyway, my biggest beef with Funi's music isn't the actual music (only a few themes really annoy me) but the execution. The Japanese music may have been twice as repetitive and full of lots of Scooby-Doo/Western sounds that make you go "huh?" but at least they knew when to play it and when not to. And besides, there are some REAL good pieces that I wish I could hear in more than just realmedia files. The two TV Specials showcase the original music at its best, I think.

Gunjack> Like I said, it's perfectly okay.

*raises eyebrow* This is your first election too?

Matt: <<>>

No offense, Matt, but your not voting invalidates just about all of the philosophy that follows. Here's an example: the Elyria DMV is a shithole which doesn't follow the regs. But am I going to write a letter to the city before or after I pass my driving test elsewhere?

Shinigama: <<>>

Tell me about it. I think I'd vote for the guy if he ran today, just based on his "Daily Show" appearences!

While we're on that subject, anyone watch it last night? Jon Stewart got in one particularly amusing blow when noting that just about all of the southern states have gone to Bush's side. All of these states banding together seems to have happened once before... oh, what was it? ;)
Entity
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 02:54:29 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Robby and Coyote>>I have seen Slayers. I loved it. I'm watching vol 5 and recently saw the ep where the characters were in a play.
what I'm ticked off about is that FoxKids will mangle it. How are they going to handl the discussion on Lina's time of month???

Begin Spoilers for Buffy and Angel**************************
Buffy Good to see the shehulk again ad those KISS demons were pretty cool. Very good developments on Tara. Loved seeing anya loving her job and like how she got pissed at Cousin Beth's statment on demons. Allright Spike, he did two good things. One was fightingthe demons, the second was punching Tara to provethat she isnt evil. I enjoy seeing Spike's growing desire for Buffy.
Angel. First of all Shirtless Wesley! ok I can cool down now. Very fun episode with Wesley pretending to be Angel. Like the discussion on angel at the keroke bar and Angel with the phoney Swami....The fishing rod he used was cool.
Lots of funny discussiom especially comments from angel about Wesley wearing his coat, not being a eunich and at the end saysing that it wasnt Wesley's office
and I believe that would mae it twice this season that Wesley got lucky and all three members of Angel investigations that drank blood.
*******************END SPOILERS*****************************

Now i'm gonna sit back and wait for them to finish the recount of the votes. We wouldnt have a recount if the democrats accepted defeat.
Spacebabie
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 02:00:46 PM
IP: user-37kap05.dialup.mindspring.com

***Kyryn steps in with a codewrench in her hand.***

Rose> Fixed the "Ripper" link. BTW, welcome to the room.

Lynati> Fixed the "Beginning Again" link.

Thanks to you both for noting the link problems.

***Kyryn steps out.***
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 12:47:22 PM
IP: 216.35.46.129

Pendragon related so be warned>(waits a few moments for those who wish to scan past this to do so then speaks) I think the fact the Nigel is gonna be knighted the next evening is important point to consider. It would be great if some twist of fate allowed him to be become one of Arthur's knights instead. It would certainly help the cause besides A) I want Mary to tell him of her her condition ASAP & B) It would certainly be a hoot if he and Mary found out who Morgana Cornish really is especially if that further leads them to finding out she is the Connection. END
James Birdsong
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 12:44:12 PM
IP: h2odam.sdccd.cc.ca.us

*walks in, carting a rather prettily decorated Ficcus plant*
Ladies and Gentlemen I give you our next president *strokes the Ficcus' leaves rather adoringly*

Hell it's better than the two smucks who are tied in the polls. I'm one of the 2% who voted for Nader (and I should imagine the rest of us were pissed off WWF fans who never got to see the Smackdown challenge)and made this ridiculus wait possible. I don't like Bush, he looks too much like his dad, who pre-empted too many of my cartoons when I was growing up; and I don't like Gore, who, as charismatic as he's become in campaign months, still seems fake to me.

You know what I regret? I regret that four years ago, when Bob Dole was running he didn't show one iota of his spark, wit and incredible intelligence. If he had one that election, we wouldn't have had to go through an impeachment scandal, or probably this now since then we would just be re-electing him or would never see the likes of Dubba-Who?

and for you folks who are celebrating early, need I remind you of another presidental race where a certain paper had given the wrong information when it jumped to conclusions?

Also, there's is always electorial votes to consider.. which will be important in this race where it s SO close.
48% each, talk about a country divided.

*leaves the Ficcuss plant so that it can make it's celebratory speech..*

Shinigami - [MCordova999@Hotmail.com]
Brooklyn, NY, USA
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 10:57:42 AM
IP: spider-wq074.proxy.aol.com

wow! this pic is really goregous!
jenna
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 10:10:41 AM
IP: 192.245.189.3

This may be of interest to those of you around the D/FW area --- we've got a new SF/comics/gaming convention called the UncommonCon scheduled for Thanksgiving weekend, Nov. 24-26. If you're thinking about going to G2K1 next summer, this would be a good chance to meet Jamie Murray aka Myhr who will be the master-of-ceremonies for the Gathering in L.A. Jamie will be showing his fabulous fantasy artwork so come by and say hello!

re: TGS art>> The problem isn't so much with the art staff. Damocles has done an exceptional job organizing the assignments and keeping us all updated on changes. The problem is simply people who sign up to do the illos on a particular ep and then just sort of drop out of sight. We work on an honor system -- once an artist takes an ep, the rest of us on the art staff are obliged to let them handle it without interference, even when things are getting down to the wire and nothing has shown up yet. Sometimes there's time enough to whip out a few last minute illos but that's only if the art staff learns about it in time. *laughs* Which is kinda how I wound up doing "The Reluctant Thief" and "Iris, Rose, and Lily" even though they were not my assigned eps.
Spike
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 09:24:05 AM
IP: adsl-208-190-39-99.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net

Don't everyone celebrate to soon. Gore has not admitted defeat just yet. Florida is being recounted, and with luck the bumbling idiot who does not know Yugoslavia from China will lose.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 07:40:50 AM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

PENDRAGON ART (OR LACK THEREOF) - Sorry that there was no art in "Ripper" or "The Once and Future King Part One"; we had some difficulties that prevented us from getting any illustrations for either story (and it looks as if there won't be any illustrations for "The Once and Future King Part Two", either, at present). We apologize for it; we've been having some Art Staff difficulties lately.

*BUFFY/ANGEL SPOILERS *

BUFFY: Well, those people who suspected that Tara might be a demon in disguise seem to have been pretty accurate (although not quite as accurate as they thought). I thought that it was a pretty good episode; I particularly got a chuckle out of Tara's "see no demons" spell working a little too well, and Spike's method of showing that Tara isn't a demon after all (not to mention his deciding to go over to the magic shop to watch the demons attacking Buffy). Oh, yes, and the Spike-and-Harmony scene (with Harmony talking about the sale that she went to) was hilarious.

I don't blame Buffy for keeping Dawn in the dark about her true nature (and everybody else but Giles, for that matter). Can you imagine the impact of suddenly finding out that you're actually some sort of magical force that's been turned into a human? (I also liked the touch about Buffy "remembering" Dawn's response to their parents' divorce and then realizing that that was one of the implanted memories rather than a genuine event).

And - let me get this straight? - the demon whom the mysterious villainess teams up with is the same as the fellow working at the hospital (his human form being just a disguise)?

ANGEL: A very funny one, with Wesley in great form (I thought that his pretending-to-be-Angel act was a riot). The "Angel-and-fake-swami" scenes were a lot of fun too (and maybe the guy did Angel a bit of good without realizing it, even if he was just a fraud). Not to mention Angel's response to Wesley wearing his coat and the bit about "eunuch".

Well, this week definitely hasn't shown the most harmonious of father/daughter relations in media-fantasy series. Nigel Sefton's treatment of Mary in "The Once and Future King Part One" and the wizard-businessman's readiness to sacrifice his own daughter to a demon for greater success combined!

I don't know if anybody's noticed this or not, by the way, but I spotted a nit in the teaser for next week's episodes; the narration talks about four centuries of vampire history, but if we're going back just to the point when Darla turned Angel into a vampire, it should be only two, since she "converted" him in the late 18th century. Unless one of the familiar vampires comes from the late 16th century (and, by process of elimination, it would have to be Darla, since Drusilla and Spike were both "converted" after the 18th century), that has to be inaccurate.

*SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 07:10:35 AM
IP: 216.87.46.251.dialup-stl.primary.net

Ok this is my frist time doing this and I just wanted to say Hi to everyone that knows me from chating and Hi to those i don't know. Just finshed reading most of the timdanceing stories I like them. now time to move on to the Dake ages cause haven't read most of them. bye for now
Courtney - [elisagirl2000@go.com]
Chersterfeild, Mi, USA
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 06:23:14 AM
IP: adsl-pool26-181.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

Yaaahhhh...I can't sleep until I know who won! This is driving me crazy! Is anyone else still up at this hour? Bush is leading in Florida by a margin of only about 1200 votes, and I guess they are recounting some absentee ballots, and possibly doing a complete recount...this race is so crazy-close! I'm excited about it, and I really don't want either Gore or Bush as president. Imagine how great this would be if I actually believed in the candidates. :P At any rate...I guess it's gonna be a while until they know for certain if Bush actually won. Right now, I'm thinking he probably did, but it would be pretty entertaining if Gore pulled ahead. heh...at this point, I'm only in it for the entertainment purposes. I want neither man as president, but there really isn't much other option, is there? *sigh*

I really need to sleep.
Jessie Feff - [feff@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 04:31:40 AM
IP: dialup7-2.mrs.umn.edu

Well, I guess by reading the posts that Bush won. (I wasn't watching the election coverage; watching 'Chasing Amy' for the first time- great flick). I didn't vote, but if I had, I would've voted for Gore. This is why I think individual voting doesn't matter. Not because Bush won. I live in Pennsylvania, a state Gore won. Y'see, the electoral process is so f***ed up in this country that it really doesn't matter who you vote for. Besides, the Presidential elections shouldn't be as important as they are. The main power of this country should be located in Congress. However, since FDR, the Executive Branch has been allocated more and more power. Our beautiful system of checks & balances has been thrown out of whack. The moral? Er... ummm... Think globally, act locally. City and state elections are far more important to your day-to-day life. And that's... (insert brief pause) one to grow on.
Matt "King Snarf" Maybray - [reginald_q_bumbershoot@hotmail.com]
Drexel Hill, PA, USA
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 03:56:40 AM
IP: a020-1145.phl2.splitrock.net

Socrates> Actually I think that what some people said is wrong. Not believing in the Athenian gods wasn't a crime by itself. Being of a different faith wasn't a crime: Being an *atheist* was. And Socrates was accused of not believing in *any* god. (even not believing in the most widespread belief in the world: Sun and moon-worship. Socrates was among other things accused of claiming that the Sun was a burning rock)

Elections> The fact that people who voted Nader took the vote away from Gore shows what's really screwed with the election system in both the US and many other countries (including my own). If a process of elimination was taking place, then the people who voted Nader could then (once Nader was eliminated) vote for Gore... With the split vote and the winner-takes-all policy, democracy isn't promoted at all IMAO...
That I almost never post
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 03:00:24 AM
IP: cache1.grnet.gr

**enters, coat swooping in the breeze, taking a glass from SJ**

Don't mind if I do ... but don'tcha think something like this deserves the *good* stuff? **produces a 2-liter of Vernor's from his unbelievably deep pockets** There ya go.

Entity: Actually, your post earlier demonstrated the one great fallacy of the modern electoral age ... the ever-so-powerful *exit poll!*
See, CNN put up a result giving Gore Florida early in the evening, shortly after FL's polls ended. However, by my estimate the CNN exit poll did *not* include the groups that eventually led to the state being placed right in George W.'s basket. I've been watching the election results pretty much non-stop since 5 this evening, and that Florida race eventually came down to Dade and Broward counties ... historically South American Hispanic.

Democrats in the room: If ya *really* want to find a scapegoat for Gore's loss, I've got two words for you.

Elian Gonzalez.

**cocks back the ginger ale before leaving to watch Gore's concession speech**
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 02:49:23 AM
IP: 216.28.101.77

**Comes in, tossing her cowboy hat in the air and toasting over ginger ale with SJ**

YEEE-HAWWW!!! Bush wins, Bush wins!!! Ah, I can sleep peacefully now. :)

Thank you, Ralph Nader, my new special friend! (Nah, not really. But thanks.) :)

**LC runs out to celebrate some more.**
Lady Corax
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 02:46:12 AM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

**SJ walks in with a big glass of ginger ale, since he doesn't drink except on social occasions**

Ladies and Gentlemen, the war (and that is what it was) is over.

Toast with me! To 4 glorious years of Evil!!!

If any of you need me for anything, I'll be making passionate love to Ralph Nader.

Good Night!
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 02:41:09 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

BOOYAKA!!!!

*Begins firing various weapons into the air in celebration*

See y'all tomorrow! :D
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 02:22:43 AM
IP: dialup-209.245.238.81.dallas1.level3.net

BUSH WINS!!! BUSH WINS!!! BUSH WINS!!!
Tim Phipps
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 02:20:18 AM
IP: wsc0051.wsc.edu

*Valentine enters, looking exhausted but happy*

Just a short post right now (sorry, Entity), as I'm being pulled between exhaustion and the TV.
Earlier this evening, I was in a slump faced with a Gore/Leiberman landslide. Now the race has been locked solid for five hours, and I'm at peace. I think my team may win this one. Since this is my first election, you may understand my enthusiasm... :)

Entity, I can't reply tonight. The question was considerably more complex than I thought, and the only answer I can come up with probably won't satisfy you. In any case, I'll try to put it together in the morning. Sorry, 'Mano...

*Valentine camps out on the couch in front of the TV, watching the election coverage as he drifts toward sleep*

Is an angel watching closely over me?
Can there be a guiding light I've yet to see?
I know my heart should guide me but
There's a hole within my soul...
-Luna, Lunar Complete

Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 02:11:21 AM
IP: dialup-209.245.238.81.dallas1.level3.net

*Lynati pokes her head in*

decided to come glance here before going to bed...
I, like Rose, do not know exactly how things operate behind the scenes and such... but I feel this is a good a time as any to ask:

Has "Beginning Again" been deliberately left out of Pendragon season two? (a second copy of "Signs and Portents" is in its place)
...A while back I was going insane because I was trying to figure out which episode Leba becomes a main player in, and I couldn't find it until I ran into it in the regular gargoyles second series.

ummm...am I telling you things you already know?

*Lynati goes to eat chocolate. (whoops!). I mean, to bed.*
Lynati
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 01:51:39 AM
IP: 208.12.249.253

**Winterwolf walks into the room**

Hi! Not much to say! I voted and now I'm watching the results!

Emambu> Always happy to make a friend feel better! :)

Niamhgold> You bet I will pass that to Shadowrider! I'll also keep the email going out to you! ^_^

SOROW> **Hugz** Things change. May it get better!

There's more but I just can't finish this right now.

Good night everybody!

**Winterwolf leaves**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 01:04:09 AM
IP: 206.15.120.78

Just popped in to say that the November issue of Sabledrake Magazine is now posted; click or go to http://www.sabledrake.com/magazine.htm

Will hopefully have more to say and be able to catch up on e-mail soon! And to those who've been wondering about fanfic progress, I am now well into a still-untitled Dissidents story. Take care!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 12:37:52 AM
IP: 14-081.009.popsite.net

Hi there. I've read the stories here for a long while, but this is my first time actually posting here in the comment room. I don't know if the right people look here or not, but I just wanted to point out that the link to Ripper under Pendragon season 3 is dead. The last half of the link is ripper/htm, when it should be ripper.htm Someone should go fix it.
Rose
Wednesday, November 8, 2000 12:05:35 AM
IP: proxy3-external.msnv1.occa.home.com

I don't have the time to scan room for messages for me but I doubt there was any anyhow. I just read the newest Pendragon episode. very nice. That's it. ta!
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 11:52:29 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-131-48.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

Hmm, 11 'oclock, and the election is *still* too close to call. Particularly since Florida recalled its vote for Gore temporarily since the numbers are too close to call. May not manage to stay awake till the end of this thing, and will have to wait till morning to find out who out next Pres is.

Entity- Aww, there's only two eps of Blue Sub left. Might as well watch them, to see what Cartoon Network gets away with if nothing else... I'm still in shock that they actually left in the bird thing calling out "Bull shit!"...

As far as Funimation's music for DBZ, I rather like a lot of it. Particularly the Vegeta theme and the crazy Android music. Besides, some of the japanese music was... rather kooky. AHh well...

Kit- Wish I had the time to RP properly, but time I would spend writing that is time better spent writing for TGS... I still have a story and a half to go where writing is concerned, and four stories to illustrate, sooo... Mesa busy! (But I will try to bring my part of the RP to a decent pausing point pretty quickly...)
Robby
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 11:14:04 PM
IP: spider-wa011.proxy.aol.com

Still at an utter loss on just WHAT my John Donne paper's going to be about, (and it's due Friday!) so I'm making a brief post.

Getting into the religion debate against my better judgment> Last night, my boyfriend asked me if I believe in God. (Keep in mind this was over the phone and after midnight, and he's Christian and I'm agnostic.) I told him that no, I have a good idea. Yes, that was ripping off "Dogma," but again, it was after midnight. Do I believe that there's some kind of higher power, fate, God, whatever you call it? I wouldn't be surprised - the world is too weird for it to be entirely arbitrary. But I can't subscribe to any system of belief. Every time someone has tried to preach to me, their reasoning boils down to one thing: that I believe what they do and my soul will be saved. So if I followed through on that reasoning... it wouldn't be belief. It'd be fear. I've accepted friends' invitations to come to church with them, to certain functions, to a weekend retreat - but it's never really moved me. I guess I think it would be hypocritical to go to church if I didn't believe. I can't just make myself believe in something. It's sort of like that experience that was talked about in "Contact" - I haven't had that yet. **pauses, realizing what I said made very little sense** Let's just say that when it comes to whether or not I believe in God... I have a pretty good idea. And leave it at that.

**BUFFY/ANGEL SPOILERS!**

Buffy> Good ep this week, I agree, and we FINALLY learned what was up with Tara. My only real quibble with the ep was that the whole "demon" strain was supposedly just a family legend. I'd have preferred for there to be something there, that something would happen when Tara hit 20, but something not as severe as Tara's idiot father, brother and cousin made it out to be. (Remember Doyle? Something like that.) Hey, Willow was fine dating a werewolf, I don't think she'd have much trouble with Tara being part demon. All in all, a good episode. 8.5/10, marked down additionally because Glory has yet to impress me.

One part of the ep made me suspicious: Riley went out drinking at Willy's, rejected a vampire's advances, and he didn't appear in the episode until the next NIGHT. I don't want them to kill Riley off now that the character's improved so much, but I couldn't see any more reason for that scene to be in there.

Angel> I was VERY pleasantly surprised by this one. The last time I enjoyed an episode of "Angel" this much was way back last season, when "Rm w/a Vu" first aired. It started out all right, then just kept getting better and better: from Gunn's reaction to Angel's "plan" and the thought of Angel singing, to Wesley's imitation of Angel, to the fake swami (who was actually on the ball when it came to a few of Angel's problems), and to that absolutely hysterical ending.
Favorite lines: "Were you in Virginia?" "That's beside the point." and "I'm not a eunuch." LOL. 10/10.

**END BUFFY/ANGEL SPOILERS!**

Well, the cheers on my floor section mean that Gore got California. I'd better get back to work.
Mandolin
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 11:04:47 PM
IP: 144.175.21.16

Wrong color, sorry. Must be tired. :( Begin Part 2!!

Firestorm: Another company is interested in you? Good! :) Hope you can get a job with them, good luck. And don't let the stress of your current one get to you too much, it will soon be over. Though you certainly are right to feel stressed with the commute they give you. At least it's not as bad as Doug's job. <very brief grin> Thanks to you and Lady Mystic for keeping the archives updated, good luck getting your websites moved.

Paul: Good to see you still hanging around. Hope you're not too worried about me responding to your message, my life has been packed full lately and I haven't been able to get to it. I'll try again this weekend, I promise. In the meantime, I suggest you go back and read over your posts from last week and the responses to them. With the proper application of deep thought, you could learn a lot from them. I mean no offense, just making an observation. Hope that we can talk again soon, and go more into depth. I can make no promises, since my life is so full and hectic right now, but I am going to try. BTW, just out of curiosity, are you still writing Myria's Legacy? Doug and I enjoyed that series, and Mieu Sedai has not updated the fanfic sections of her site in an eternity, so we've been missing it. Maybe you can send us any work you've done since the last chapter she posted (I think it was 19)? It'd be appreciated, thanks in advance. E-mail is below.

**X-FILES SPOILERS**
After this week's episode, I must say one word- PHEW. :) I was afraid it was gonna stink. The only-somewhat-entertaining episodes of Simpsons and Futu-rama earlier that evening didn't really get me ready for a fun episode either. But X-Files was a surprise, it was fun. Much more fun than last season. Liked the development on Scully and Skinner a lot, and Dogget made a great new character. Good acting on the part of everyone, especially Patrick. Liked the episode's script too, especially its nods to the show's continuity, which last season definitely should have paid more attention to, and the chilling scenes of Mulder getting experimented on. Also great interplay between Scully and Dogget, their dialogue made for some nice chemistry. Was a big surprise to see Mulder at the end, I too think it's just the Bounty Hunter but we'll see next week. I'm glad to say I can hardly wait.
**END SPOILERS**

Jessie Feff: Happy Belated Birthday! <RPG Maker> Glad you're having fun with that, I hope to enjoy it someday too. It's on the Christmas list. <grin>

Winterwolf: Thanks for letting us know about Shadowrider, I wish him luck. Loading and firing missiles does sound somewhat exciting, hope he enjoys it. :) And that he will come back soon. Good luck to you with the busy week.

Todd: I enjoyed X-Men Evolution's season opener too, it gave the characters a lot more personality and character development than I was expecting. Also great character animation and dialogue. Looking forward to seeing things develop more, glad they're taking it slow and keeping the plot simple. :) I hope it will be a long while before things change.

Shinigami: Thanks for telling us about the marathon experience. It sounds like it was exciting. My dad used to run marathons all the time, before his leg injury (which I've already told y'all about), and it was always fun for my family to watch them too. Even though he never came in better than 23rd. :)

**PENDRAGON SPOILERS**
Excellent season finale episode this week. Felt a bit anticlimactic because it was predictable in some ways, but I also liked the great surprising developments in it. Having Sefton and Morgana engaged was a big surprise, but a nice one. I loved the great interaction between Morgana and Mary, and how it showed us insights into Morgana and developed them both. Looking forward to seeing how the relationship continues to play out. Sefton's bits with Mary made for good development too, hope more people can agree he's a villain now. Anybody who treats their own daughter like that, putting his career before his family and not really caring about anything, IMO deserves a serious butt-kicking at the very least. (Keep in mind this is coming from someone who ran away from home and was welcomed back like the prodigal, and I was gone longer than Mary!) Loved the development on Arthur as well, Seabairn (who has to be Mordred!) made a great foil for him and an excellent new villain. Kudos to Todd on his writing in their dialogue, the bits between the two characters were funny and intriguing. Liked the development on Braddock also, and what was done with the other characters. Wish the ep had had some illustrations, but otherwise it was just plain great, though I do agree with Ed the ending was missing something. Oh well, we'll make that up next week, right? Hope so. 9/10 to Part 1. Really looking forward to Part 2, hope some pics of Seabairn and Morgana are in there. :)
**SPOILERS OVER**

Niamhgold: Don't know what to say to you about the two guys problem, but thinking hard about the situation and the emotions on all sides, then going with the guy who loved me has always worked to get me out of such situations whenever I've been in them. Might do the same for you. Whatever happens, good luck. <hugs>

Wilek: Your tank-driving bears actually work for you? They take your money to shoot at things? Wow. I must borrow them sometime. <grins>

**BUFFY, ANGEL SPOILERS**
Great episodes of these shows tonight, once again! :) Buffy had some real nice development on Willow and Tara, liked the insights into their relationship especially. Liked how it was used as main plot of the story with everything woven around and affecting it. Buffy had some good development too, especially in the bits where she talked out her implanted memories of Dawn and discussed her true identity with Giles, whose reaction to Dawn and decisions concerning it were well-written and -acted too. Good developments in Buffy and Giles' relationship also, and good bits with Anya and Xander, especially seeing Anya excited about her place in the world and the process of capitalism. Dawn had some good developments as well, and there were great developments in her relationship with Buffy too, especially in her conversations with Riley and Giles about her. Once again great interplay between Buffy and Dawn. Riley also had some good developments, especially in the bar. Not surprised we saw the Annoying Insane Bitch again, but she was a bit more enjoyable this time around. Maybe she just had to grow on me. Buffy's and the Scooby Gang's reactions to what to do about her were nice also, Tara's bits were especially funny. The interplay between the AIB and the demon she grabbed were funny too, good to see her with a plot. Spike and Harmony were also entertaining as always, great fight scene between Spike and Buffy and real nice timing on its end. <grin> The development on Tara was my favorite part of this episode though, she has really needed some character attention for a long time IMO. Her family history came as a surprise, and the family also made interesting if somewhat cliched characters- kudos to the writers on that one, I'm usually not too impressed by cliches. Great interaction between them and Tara. Tara's secret was surprising, and had excellent foreshadowing dialogue leading up to its revelation. Good fights between the demon and the Scoobies near the end, seeing Spike show up to watch them was hilarious. The interplay between Tara's family and the gang at the end was good too, liked the resolution of it especially. Spike had a great moment. Looking forward to the further developments on him next week, they should be fun and interesting to watch. Also good to be getting Drusilla back again, and see more of the pasts of our main vampire characters. Giving this week's Buffy a 9/10.

Angel was good too. Real nice developments on Angel and Wesley, the latter was both comic and entertaining in his impersonation of a vampire. Real good acting from Denisof there. His interplay with the clients was also nice to watch, as was the banter with Cordelia and her development, which was also nice. She was very funny in this episode, Gunn was also. Their reactions to Angel singing brought especially great laughs. Good interaction between Angel and the "swami" too, with nice insights into Angel resulting from it, and Cordelia and Wesley's reactions to it were great also. Good stuff all around in the ep in fact. Especially nice dialogue between Wesley and Virginia, who makes a great love interest for him I think. And her father made a very good bad guy too, wonder if Giles' magic shop will ever get into competition with him. <smiles at the possibilities> The fake swami was a pretty good villain too, once his true nature was revealed. And Wesley's obsession was also hilarious and entertaining. Great action at the end, loved Virginia confronting her father. 10/10 overall, hope Whedon keeps up the good work. The higher the mountain of it gets, the higher the possible fall. <sigh>
**THESE SPOILERS END**

And I guess that's all for tonight. Must watch the election results now, so I know who is the next leader of the so-called free world. May the best candidate win. After that, it's going to be a long cold lonely night for me- Doug has to work the graveyard tonight thanks to a call-in. <sigh> Oh well, it will be over eventually. Good luck to you all and may we all soon be feeling joyful. Later! <turns up the heat, sighs, and hits Submit>

**RESUME RP ACTION, WITH APOLOGIES TO ANYBODY ELSE IN THE CR WHO'S A GAMER- THE BAD GUYS IN THIS BIT ARE PRIME EXAMPLES OF THE DORKS AMONG US, NOT THE GOOD PEOPLE. JUST HAVE TO MAKE THAT CLEAR**

In the Mall of America's Nordstrom store, Keith is running around looking between displays for any sign of Stephanie and grimacing as he finds none. "Just great!" he growls. "I know I heard metal clashing on metal in here, had to be a sword-fight, but no sign of�" He stops, looking down a stairwell and spotting two long-haired overweight men in typical pathetic gamer-geek clothing going at each other with authentic broadswords. "Wrong sword-fight," Keith realizes, and is turning around when all of a sudden four more people in garb similar to the two guys with swords, who are now coming up the escalator having broken off their fight, leap out of nearby hiding places and surround Keith. "Alright KELWM!" a short pug-faced man with long black hair and thick glasses wearing a DIE ORK! T-shirt jerks a finger in Keith's face. "Time to give me your seat as premiere Game Master of Central Austin! I'll have your GM Awards, your acclaim, everything!" "Uh, I can't just give you that, whoever you are," Keith frowns. "I think you have to earn such things?" "Screw that, screen-monkey!" a bald long-nosed man wearing a Three Geeks T-shirt yells, drawing and cocking a crossbow. "Our pal Ralph's the best GM in the area, not you! You're not even a real gamer, you let real life be more important to you!" "That's why Lord Gothmenes brought us here to take you down!" adds an obese girl in a stretched purple felt jacket. The two sword-wielders nod in agreement, raising their blades and grinning. "I'm Frank, he's Hank," one spits. "And we're gonna chop you up, Dragonboy!" yells the other. "And I'm gonna blast ya!" snorts a graybearded and ponytailed man wearing a long blue poncho emblazoned with moons and stars, raising his hands and making motions that accomplish absolutely nothing. "I don't have time for this," Keith mutters, trying to push past the bunch. "I have to find Stephanie." "You'll have to best us first, Dragonboy!" Ralph declares, producing a heavy dice bag and swinging it like a flail. "You got what it takes?" The others guffaw and Keith rolls his eyes, then lashes out with a quick karate chop to Ralph's nose that breaks his glasses and drives glass splinters into his eyes and brain. As he screams and falls over bleeding to death, Keith readies himself as Hank and Frank charge him, screaming war cries that sound half-Klingon and half-barbarian. He kicks Hank in the stomach and knocks him into the Bob-from-KODT-lookalike, whose just-fired crossbow shot hits Hank in the heart. "Brother!" Frank wails. "By the nine moons of Krom and the fifteenth saga of Hermes, I shall avenge you in the name of�." The rest of his speech is lost as Keith grabs him and shoves him down the escalator to a painful skull-cracking demise. The fat girl growls and draws a large knife, baring overlarge plastic vampire fangs as she rushes at Keith, who steps aside and lets her fall off the escalator too. He then flicks a ninja star at the Bob-lookalike, who has just broken his crossbow's string trying to load a second bolt. The star hits him in the forehead and explodes, killing the dork as he screams, "You lousy egotistical orc-dung!" "Better that than whatever you are," Keith mutters, turning to the guy in the wizard costume. "Yo! Got any real magic?" The elderly man blanches and Keith takes the opportunity to tackle him and snap his neck. "Didn't think so," he mutters as he gets up and becomes aware of heavy breathing. The fat girl, having struggled back up the escalator, is glaring at him. "Roll the dice!" she snaps, tossing a pair of twelve-siders before Keith and raising her knife. "I want to see if I cut out your pancreas!" "I don't need to roll dice to know that," Keith sighs. "The realistic answer is no." As the fat girl frowns, Keith throws three stars that hit and explode, obliterating her in a brutal spray of blood and flesh. "These clothes are ruined," he mutters, looking around at the display cases nearby. "But at least the world and my hobby are deprived of people who were obviously a waste of space. Gotta find Stephanie now." Alert for new opponents, he turns and runs back into the main part of the mall.

Meanwhile, back in Lego-Land, Doug, Kitainia, and the main group of Ravens in the Mall are continuing to shoot it out with their enemies, now just composed of people who've parked in the fire lane at the stores Doug works security for in RL and not care about blocking traffic or breaking the law. As a fireball barrage from Lathrop and thrown grenades from the others sail over the enemy's barricade and explode, the Ravens wipe sweat from their brows, wondering how long things can go on. Then, as the explosions clear, a white flag waves from behind the barricade and people begin to shout, "Okay! We surrender! No more!!" "Should we accept it?" Kit asks, and Doug shrugs. "Sure, might as well. I only have three more clips." "One more left here," Leah sighs, slamming it into her rifle. "Okay then," Kit shrugs. "We'll accept the surrender. Lathrop, ready a missile-protection shield spell just in case, and�" The silence is broken by a series of loud explosions and the Ravens turn and gasp as they see Mansfield firing a grenade launcher over the wall. "Bobby, they were surrendering!" Leah yells. "Maybe, maybe not," he mutters as the Ravens all give him disapproving stares. "Just doing insurance." "Listen, pal, we're not brutal war-mongers, okay?!" Jammer fumes, grabbing the empty grenade launcher and throwing it aside. "You need to tone down on the heavy weapons!" "Why?" Mansfield grimaces. "They get the job done!" "Doesn't mean we should use them!" Kit roars. "Especially on people who were surrendering. "Guys, guys!" Tom cuts in, clapping his hands. "I think some of them might still be alive over there! Shall we check it out?" "Let's go!" Shap waves to Shauna, who nods and follows him across the battlefield. The rest of the Ravens, suddenly glum, stare after them with heavy hearts. Mansfield is still smiling, though, and Leah is still glaring at him. Only Anthony, shaking his head sadly, keeps his eyes on the stairs leading to the levels of Lego-Land below, and thus only he spots the ranks of more bad guys coming up them. As Shap and Shauna look over the barricades and shake their heads at all the dead bodies they see with no one obviously alive, and the rest of the Ravens sigh at seeing them do so, he grimaces and turns to yell a warning. "More enemies, guys, coming up on our backside!" "Damn it!" Tricia curses, spinning around and raising her weapon along with the others just as a young wild-eyed black man waving a mop handle leaps up the last flight and knocks Anthony down with his initial swing, growling and looking at the Ravens. "I'm gonna kick everybody's ass!" he spits. "Then I'm gonna spit on everybody! No more high cigarette taxes! No more high prices or lousy jerks treating me bad! No more�" He is shut up as Anthony fires two shots into his head and Doug shoves his body back down the stairs into three black men wearing headscarves who were running up behind him. "Hey dogs, why'd you do that?" one protests. "You got blood all over me!" "Me too, dogs!" a second barks, pumping a hastily-produced shotgun. "You're gonna pay!" "Arf!" Jammer replies, firing his machine gun into the bunch. The other Ravens back him up and soon the other two jerks are also taken out. The big group of drunk troublemakers from Jammer's club and other assorted losers behind them see the Ravens' obvious strong defensive position at the top of the stairs and blanch in fear, turning tail almost as one and running off. Those few who stay behind are quickly cut down by magic missiles Lathrop sends streaking out from his hands. "Pursuit?" Doug asks, and Kit shrugs. "Might as well." Jammer, Tricia, Boris, Elena, Tom, Anthony, and Mansfield are already running down the stairs, the latter drawing glares from Shap and Shauna as they return to the group. "Anyone alive?" Kit asks them. "No," Shauna growls, shaking her head. "All the people who complained to Doug about the fire lane are dead. So was somebody who nagged me with their dying breath about ridiculous things. I wouldn't have minded putting a few arrows in her, but oh well." "Yeah, oh well," Shap agrees. "We should have been compassionate with those people, they were surrendering! But that Mansfield�" "We'll talk to him," Doug says. "For now we gotta handle the rest of the bad guys in here. Sooner or later they're gonna remember they outnumber and are very mad at us. If they get the upper hand again in this, we're dead." "Then let's get after them," Lathrop says and Kit, Shap, and Shauna all glumly nod. They then turn and head down Lego-Land's stairs after their friends as sirens continue to echo from outside and the screen goes blank.

**TO BE CONTINUED, END RP AND POST**
Kitainia - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 10:20:44 PM
IP: pool-63.52.168.109.dlls.grid.net

**RP HERE**

"Ah, Kharsus," Thailog is smiling at his wizard as the screen comes on, looking up from a laptop computer. "I just got a disk of information on Ted Turner and his plans from Nipon. Seems we may have competition for world conquest from some demons. I was about to call you for consultation since you know so much about demons. Can you�" He stops, realizing Kharsus is glaring at him. "Is there a problem?" "The intruders killed my fire imps!" the wizard replies with a snarl. "All thirteen! Do you know how long it took me to bond and summon those creatures?" "Can't you get more?" Thailog asks. "No, I can't get more!" Kharsus roars. "Not without 666 days of eating nothing but flaming swords, and sacrificing to�" "Now I know why Thailog needed another wizard!" a voice interrupts, and Kharsus turns to gape as Gar walks in smiling and twirling his mastergem on its chain. "You're an inept whiner." "What?" Kharsus growls, raising his hands. "I ought to�" He stops and forcibly calms himself down at Thailog's warning wave. The clone gargoyle nods at Gar and then at Dahak, who has just walked in behind the otherworldly wizard. "Good work, Unseelie. You found him." "It wasn't easy, my lord," Dahak says. "Something's happened to the base. It's like the halls are arranged differently- very strange. They're in perfect order now, not the maze we had them. Took me a while to become aware of it." "There was no reconstruction!" Thailog gasps. "What are you talking about?" "Well," Dahak shrugs, "the door we used to come in this room used to be on that wall for one thing, and there was another door over there�" Thailog looks and growls, seeing he is right. "What the heck is�" "Perhaps the intruders cast a powerful magical reconstruction spell," Gar says. "They were possibly capable of it, being elves. I captured one, the others escaped." "Begin interrogating her at once," Thailog orders him. "Dahak, you test for whether a spell of the nature he mentioned has been used on our base. Kharsus, go find the General and work with him to strengthen our defenses just in case more intruders are coming." "Yes sir," the bearded mage fumes, glaring at his counterpart as he storms out. Dahak meanwhile frowns as he does a quick detection spell. "That's odd," his eyes widen. "I was sure he was dead. Why do I feel his presence and power�" "Something wrong?" Thailog interrupts. "No, my lord," Dahak shakes his head. "I have to investigate something, I'll be right back." He snaps his fingers and disappears. Thailog looks at Gar. "Well, aren't you going to go interrogate your prisoner?" he asks. "With pleasure," Gar grins and vanishes. As Thailog mutters angrily about his help and turns back to his computer, the otherworldly wizard reappears in a dark laboratory that looks like it was jointly designed by HR Geiger and HP Lovecraft. Lithanne is chained to a ceiling hook in the middle of it, clad only in a rough metal shift like Leia wore in Return of the Jedi and grimacing as black-green slime drips onto her from the ceiling. "You'll never get away with this, Gar!" she spits at her captor as he chuckles and picks up a pair of hot tongs. "Not a second time!" Gar frowns, then looks at her for a long moment and smiles. "Hello again, Lithanne," he declares. "I recognize you now, I didn't at first. Must have been the years that have gone by since we last knew each other. How delightful it is going to be to corrupt you again!" "No�" Lithanne gasps as he takes a hot circlet out of a nearby forge and waves the mastergem over it. "No�" Her eyes lock on the circlet as the chuckling Gar raises it with telekinesis and she breaks into a cold sweat, then screams as he waves his hand and magically lowers it onto her head. The screams continue as purplish mist starts flowing out of her mouth and nostrils and obscures the screen.

By the time it clears, the display has changed to the bunker in the Middle East where Gubio has been fighting his hacker's duel with Tyl for several hours now. STRIKE's computer expert, the young bald black man with large glasses known only as Hack, has joined in on Gubio's side and is grimacing. "Damn, this guy is good!" he throws up his hands. "That last program I just threw at him breaks me into the CIA and KGB computers easy, and he just blocked its access! Kicked me offline too, gimme a sec to get back on�" "Don't be ashamed of yourself, Hack," Gubio sighs. "Tyl's really good at what he does. I've only ever seen three people beat him besides me, and it's always a huge challenge. Not even Crash Override and Acid Burn have been able to stick it to this guy every time they've fought him." "He's good as Crash and Burn?" Hack's eyes widen. "Man, we are in trouble!" "Not if I can convince him to play Net-Quake we aren't," Gubio chuckles. "Tyl loves that game, and I can program in some invincibility cheats I'm sure he doesn't know about so we can beat him easily. I'll send the challenge and get the game going, you get ready to come up at him from behind while he's distracted." "Hope I can get him," Hack mumbles. "This guy knows I'm in this, remember? He'll be expecting us to try something like this." "Will he be expecting a new player?" Erin asks, walking in with a laptop under her arm and putting it on the table. "You're gonna help us?" Gubio asks, his tone one of disbelief. "Is there another way to get you out of this hacker's duel and in bed so you'll get enough rest for the attack on Abdullah's estate tomorrow?" she replies, and he frowns, considering her words. "Uh, I guess not." "Then let's get me hooked up," Erin says, starting to set up her laptop. "Send the Quake challenge, we'll use that as a distraction and Hack's strike as a decoy. My strike at his access, and worm insertions into Abdullah's systems, will be the real attack." "Brilliant," Gubio smiles. "Now if Mist will just get off my keyboard, we can do it." Mist meows in protest as the screen goes blank.

**END THIS RP**

<staggers in looking stressed-out> Hi everyone! Good to see the CR still here, and things seeming civil in it. :) My life has been hectic as hell since my last post, all because of Keith and Stephanie. By now Doug has told you about them getting married, and while we're all happy for them, I wish they would stop trying to plan everything at once. They had the engagement party on Sunday, and it went very well, with both sets of parents approving the union and liking each other, Stephanie and Keith both getting many congrats on all sides, and the wedding date moved to May 27 so it will be after the baby's born and Keith has graduated from college with his MBA. We have tons of time to plan, Stephanie and Keith know this, and yet they're trying to get everything squared away NOW. As Stephanie's appointed maid of honor and thus a major player in the wedding, it's driving me nuts. The best man- Jammer-'s helping, thankfully, he's already got his club to agree to do the reception, and Shap, who will be the godfather to Peter or Amy (that's what Keith and Stephanie got the baby names narrowed down to yesterday), is working on the church- but Doug and me and most of us are all yelling that it's too soon to be planning all this. Keith and Stephanie are not agreeing. <sigh> The resulting stress of it all barely gave me enough time to get Christine her feedback this weekend, and kept my mind real occupied at work and school too. When I have tests coming up next week, and Doug has them this week. <sigh> Hopefully we can soon calm down their pre-nuptial madness. Wish us luck, and prayers. :) Thanks for the congratulations just the same, everyone- don't worry, we're still happy. Just also driven mad. <laughs>

**SPOILERS, REVIEW OF CHARLIE'S ANGELS**
Also got time to see a movie this weekend, surprisingly. I wasn't expecting it to be that good- I was only partly right. The movie's script had a couple of surprising twists, but also some major plot holes, lots of cliches, and really dorky, dumb, and uninteresting protagonists. At least they picked the right actresses for those roles- bad ones. They also wasted Tim Curry in his role, he barely was involved in the plot at all! The campy humor was also as often <bleah> as it was funny. <sigh> But some things were there to make up for all that. Bill Murray did a great job as Bosley, and Kelly Lynch made a great female villain. Enjoyed her catfight with Cameron, and the car chase, but the Creepy Thin Man fights were really the best. Well-coreographed, well-acted, and Crispin Glover is a martial arts genius. He really acted his part as a creep well too, I could not help but shudder every time he rubbed his face with Angel hair. <grin> Good references to the old Charlie-s Angels TV series in the film too, and the plot was easy to follow even if it was terribly confusing and cliched. Essentially, the movie has its ups and downs. I recommend it, but only because of the awesome fights and Charlie's Angels fan homage. 6.8/10.
**END SPOILERS, REVIEW**

Coyote: Great Halloween pics, thanks for posting them! Glad your hand is healing nicely, I was worried about it. :) Sorry to hear about you getting dunked with motor oil, hope it didn't give any permanent stains. And don't worry about voting with a stink, plenty of guys in the line Doug and I stood in today had the same problem. (Forgive us if we keep our vote secret, btw. It is our right as Americans. :)

Gus: Yeah, I'm glad things with him are over too. If he had kept sending me terrible letters from jail on top of all the other stresses I've had this week� Sooner or later I will get my revenge in the RP on him, but in RL I've put him behind me. Thanks to all who sent sympathies on the situation coming to its tragic and hopefully final close.

Mary: Congrats on the grades as everyone has told you, good luck getting that C up. I'm trying to do the same with my C in the awful professor's class, don't know if I can. <sigh> Congrats on getting to go to the pagan festival too, I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. Hope your father did too, at least somewhat. :) Also glad your ankle is healing and hope you get to see Mononoke soon. Don't worry, it's well worth the wait.

Azarah: I know you probably don't want to be reminded of your recent sadness, but I must apologize for not saying something to you about it last week. Reading your posts about it really made me feel your pain, and sympathize. And yet things have just been so hectic I never got the chance�<sigh> Now many people have said what I could have said better than I could have, and the topic is dead. I hope you're feeling better. I too know the pain of losing family, it can be truly awful to feel. <takes out a framed photograph of two smiling elderly people, and a piece of shrapnel attached to a chain> This shrapnel they took out of him in World War 2, and the picture, is all that I have left of my grandfather, the one I knew. The picture is all I have from my grandmother that I knew, his wife. All that I can hold, anyway. The memories are the other thing I have from them, and they are both sad and happy every time they come to mind. I know it's the same for you, with your mother. The memories aren't always clear, but always make me feel great emotion. I've had to talk about my memories many times too, and it's gotten pretty deep. Just like this recent discussion in the CR over your memories did. You're not alone. I hope you've realized already or do someday the same thing I have thanks to these memories- they'll always be with you, and they can bring good emotions to you as well as bad. They help us remember the people we've lost, and feel glad to have known them. May the emotions you get from your memories be more good ones than depressing ones from now on. <hugs> Like everyone has said, you definitely should not be feeling alone and suffering. If you need help again, as you saw, you can always come in here and find plenty of wonderful friends. :) Welcome!

On your father, well, it is good that you're concerned for him. At the same time, we must also move away from our past sadnesses someday, all of us. Mayeb your neighbor's just trying to help him do that. Then again, maybe not. You know the situation better than I do, so I'm not gonna say anything more about it. I do wish you and your father luck, though, and hope that you will remember in the end that he is the one who can best determine the next step his life should take. May the one he decides on be correct. Also, don't worry about your hair. I did the same thing with my head for a while a LONG time ago. It quickly grew back. :)

Warpmind: Well, good luck with the texts, whenever you read them. Good luck learning how, too. <grin> Thanks for the info on your contact, he sounds like a very interesting source. Glad your teeth will soon be healed, and congrats on the new apartment. Good luck getting moved in, hope it doesn't take too long. Hope you also enjoy the new place.

Green Baron: Sorry to hear about the cold, glad you got over it quickly. Don't worry about my parents, they were only mad at Stephanie for a while and quickly got over it. They then brightened up, and are now acting as good parents should. Me reminding them Ray was born seven months after they got married and wasn't a premie probably helped some. :) Thanks for your hopes. Stephanie will definitely be keeping the baby, Keith is responsible enough to raise it even if she isn't. <grins> We're glad to have another member of the family on the way, all of us. BTW, it's actually my parents' second grandchild. Ray and his wife Anne had a little girl named Julia earlier this year. So Peter or Amy will have at least one playmate for sure. :)

Christine: Welcome back, missed you! Glad you decided to return to your friends here. :) Hope you got my feedback, and will soon send back comments on it. I'm glad you and your family had a good time at that village too. Congrats on not getting sick during it. <grin>

God and So On: Not really gonna comment much on this, I hate religious discussions. On whether he exists, I have faith that he does and so do millions of other people. That is enough to prove his existence IMO. Even if the Big Guy doesn't exist, well, he certainly does have a lot of power as an idea. Both good and bad. What God's really like, if he exists, I don't and can't know, but I am confident he's a good guy and has inspired many people to be good guys also. I'd go into why, but I really don't have time to. As for why he allows suffering in the world, well, I put it down to good and evil being two sides of the same coin. Without bad stuff in the world, there exists little opportunity to do good. Therefore mankind must suffer. Then there's that whole free will thing too. Past saying this it gets too complicated for me, so I'll move on to the next topic now. Enough about this one has already been said. Thanks to Kaioto, Taleweaver, and Green Baron for their especially good bits.

Abortion: Not saying much on this either, you all already know I'm against it. And I'm glad Stephanie is too and won't be getting one. :) As for why I'm against it, well, I agree that it destroys life. And that I do not like. At the same time, I do see that it is sometimes necessary, and the right thing to do in some cases even. Nobody should ever force a woman to make a choice for a child or not, thus. But I still don't like it. I don't like it at all. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

SOROW: Congrats on getting over your strep throat, I'm glad it was brief. May your stresses ease soon, sooner than mine. <crosses fingers> Hope the end comes soon for both of us.

Robby: Thanks for telling us about the death of Steve Allen. <moment of silence> Like many in here, I didn't care for the opinions he developed late in life. But my family and I were great fans of his comic routines. He will be missed by us. $ Hope you soon have more time to come in here, especially to do your next RP bit. Doug is still holding on to his plans for the death of the last DLG members, for whenever you're ready. :) $

Patrick: Thanks for posting the info on G2001, Doug and I are going to try our best to make it there. Wish us luck. And extra money. :) See you all there if we come.

End Part 1!
Kitainia
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 10:19:34 PM
IP: pool-63.52.168.109.dlls.grid.net

*enters*

Wilek><<beating up DC>> thanks. ^_^

***Warning! Fan Ranting By Love Sick School Girl***
I watched Kenshin today in Anime Club at school and all I have to say is this: Ranma ain't got nothin' on him!!! My God is Kenshin cool! He handsome, he's a kick-@ss swordsman, he does chores, he cooks, is great with children, protects those he loves, he's humble, cheerful...the list goes on and on! My God, he's exactly the kind of man I want to marry!!! *drools over pic of Kenshin*

***End Of Rant***

*slaps face* Oy Vey, me and my little love-sick-school-girl mind. ^_^; [Bahemut: Don't mind me Love, I just need to get this out of my system. ;) You know I love you. Now...could you just put on this samurai outfit I have when you get here? (j/k!);P]

Mary Flanders
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 10:08:56 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

Gore has won Florida!

Azarah: <<<"However, suppose you don't believe in God. Again, either He exists or He doesn't. If he doesn't then... well.. he doesn't and you were right. But if he does, you will suffer hell-fire and damnation.">>>

But, of course, God can tell what your motivations are. He can tell whether you really do believe in him or not. So, if you don't believe in God, short of succeeding in brainwashing yourself, you're screwed... Either accept the fact that there is no God, that if there is he wouldn't punish you for thinking, or that you are Hell-bound... in which case I go with my head held high. If God sends me to Hell for not believing in him, he's not really God, he's just some real powerful dictatorial being that has installed itself as God. No way I'm bowing to that.

<<<What if He punnished believers for their laziness of mind, for going along with the herd and believing what there is so little evidence for?>>>

An interesting idea, indeed. ;)

Gunjack: <<<My arguement was that if there were no
absolute truth, there would be Chaos; therefore, since we do not have Chaos, there must be Truth. >>>

I don't know whether there is absolute truth or not, but who says we don't have Chaos? Just because the universe has electrons spinning around nuclei and planets spinning around suns, that means there's a blueprint to existence? What about pouring out a bag of marbles? Don't the marbles roll outward in a pattern? Yet was the spill planned out?

The belief that works for me right now is the Big Bang. Laugh it off, but an expanding/retracting universe theory makes sense to me. We're expanding. We'll reach our limit and retract. We'll compress and then re-explode. Billions of years will follow wherein the debree finds itself and reforms into the universe we have now.

<<<"Trust your feelings, Luke?" ;)>>>

LOL

<<<From my personal experience, human emotion is the *least* reliable of the brain's products>>>

Interesting. This used to be my pillar of philosophy. It's thawed a little over time, though, so that I now recognize while a lot of emotion is superfluous and irrational, there is some that is worth taking into account.

<<<If something bothers me about my beliefs, I take it as a signal that I need to study the question more thoroughly>>>

...Until the provocativeness of the question wears off and the familiarity of that which you study re-asserts its hold, like a warm, fuzzy blanket wrapping you back up.

<<<Assuming that the Bible DID come directly from God, would He not have taken steps to make sure it made it's way
through the centuries undamaged?>>>

That's a bit of a long-shot, don't you think? If he was going to take such overt steps as that, why bother entrusting his word to paper in the first place? Obviously he didn't have faith in his own means.

<<<Good questions, but I'm leaving them 'till tomorrow.>>>

Heheh, no problem.

Robbie: <<<Blue SUb 6 is NOT an anime known for quality, just good animation. ANd yes, that *is* the original music.>>>

Well, that's dandy. Guess I won't bother continuing to watch this one. *sigh* I can see lack of story or character quality. Lots of things lack those, especially ones with pretty lights and colors to distract you. But the music... it is worse than Funimation's.

Green Baron: <<<It's funny that the two most outspoken liberals pose as Xanatos. he strikes me as a fiscal conservative.>>>

LOL. Never thought of that. Well, I think Mr. X is conservative in some lights, but certainly liberal in others. Basically, wherever the two sides agree with how he wishes to run his life. Amorality's funny that way.

<<< If one religion is truly right and all others wrong, I imagine the worst penalty will be a few extra decades in Purgatory, which I believe in and I believe Purgatory is why we all won't automatically go to Hell.>>>

I'd prefer to believe in Hell as Purgatory if there is one. What's the point of eternal bannishment and suffering? Purgatory is like a recovery clinic, prepping you for entry into heaven. If you don't want to have to go through that process, which is as grueling as Hell, just not as permanent, live a good life. How unreasonable is that? Basically like Anne Rice had it in "Memnoch the Devil." (A VERY recommended book, incidentally, especially in light of this discussion -- I think a lot of you might find it fascinating.)

As a final note: Everyone go and download "Cows With Guns." It's a hilarious song.
Entity
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 09:58:51 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Hey Guys! I'm back!
Welocme to all the newbies! I've been gone so long there are to many to personally welcome!

<Winterwolf>
How's the webpage? I would like hear anything new!
<TGS STAFF>
When do you think you will be starting Dark Ages up again?
<BFTS RP>

Uriel made his into a small room. It was marked Ethereal Room. He inquired as to what it was so he walked back a few steps to retrieve Winterwolf when he bumped right into him.

"Winterwolf what is this place?" the beaked male asked.

"This is the Ethereal Room. From here you can go anywhere on Earth. Just by stepping through that glass."

"I see." he said pondering such a feat.

"Which, by the way, we should be meeting up with DPH. He will be expecting us."

With that the gargoyle caped his wings and followed the humanoid wolf through the mirror.

<END BFTS RP>
Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 09:02:45 PM
IP: 216.117.75.204

**BRITNEY SPEARS DEBATE. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!**

My goodness, this chick *still* insists she's a virgin? Goodness, gracious...I'll agree with SJ that even God's stumped on this one. Did anyone else hear that she got totally trashed at a party a few days ago? I heard she got so drunk that she was falling all over everyone, and her poor bodyguard had to pick her up and put her in her limo and tell the driver to "get her back to the hotel now." Funny, but just one question...is she old enough to drink?

**END BRITNEY SPEARS DEBATE**

Pat Buchanan> Wow, I can't believe those commercials! Too bad I haven't gotten to see any of 'em. Although, no offense to any Buchanan supporters, but I think this guy's a nut. He wants to send the military down here to take care of illegal immigration...nice idea, but the military has better things to do then ride all over the desert looking for people, and there is *no way* I'm letting him declare martial law in my hometown just because of illegal immigrants. Now, the Texas militia of ranchers that offered to come over here and help...they were pretty cool...;) Plus, I'm sorry, Buchanan-fans, but you just don't say that Hitler was an okay guy if you ignore certain things. Yes, I knew what he was trying to say on that one...but you just don't say it.

Slayers> Never seen it, but I was talking with Coyote last night about it...I'll check it out, because it sounds pretty fun, and the Pokemon voice actors do a lot of the roles. Too bad Fox had to get it, though. :(

Coyote> **grins** I just love the smell of oil! :) j/k Hope you're doing well!!! :)

Wilek> Hey, buddy! Long time no see! Glad to have you around. :)

Well, happy election day! It'll be interesting to see how things turn out...**crosses fingers** :)
Lady Corax
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 07:42:16 PM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

No, I do not want to try legislate entire economic justice. However, I think the public should be aware of which companies have more than 50% of their workers as temps.

I have a problem with "Pro-family" groups that conviently forget certain things which are pro-family. the Family & Medical Leave Act was conviently (and I think deliberately) left off the pro-family's voter guide during the last presidential election.

I call a liberal with principles a moderate. Both sides are talking about the size of government and not about what is 'right and wrong'.

**POLITICAL STATEMENTS**
I believe in strictly interperting (not adding or deleting) the Constitutation and its Amendments. Last time I checked there was no mention in the Contitution or any amendments about 'separation of church and state'.

'Promote the general welfare' seems to me to indicate by implication constitutionality of EPA and OSHA. I do not necessarily agree with everything the EPA and OSHA does, but I do believe in the need for their existance.

One politically incorrect observation I have: Only those who have been born are pro-choice.

I can not believe how man political parties there really are. Fortunately, I did not see a candidate running for the president from the 'Nazi' party. What is the 'Constitution' party? I would like to see somone take every minority party and point out their views in public.

I voted and did not feel happy about who I voted for president because I felt they were all evil with some being more evil than others and some evil in different ways than others.

Oh well.
**END POLITICS**

**RP RELATED**
I am waiting on you, Winterwolf, to do a follow-up to my last BFTS RP post.
**END RP RELATED**

May the least evil candidate win the office of presidency.
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 07:40:10 PM
IP: max1-71.cwy.cei.net

[Wilek strides into the CR costumed as Liquid Snake from Metal Gear Solid and, in celebration of Halloween, pulls a lever that buries the CR knee-deep in packets of M&Ms. Eventually the mechanism runs out of M&Ms and starts dropping severed bits of Mr. Disconnect.] By the time I finish this post, Halloween will probably be long since over...ah well, it's always Halloween in my freaky little brain anyhow.

Emambu> <<Lastly, yeah I blame the writers too. I mean, not only do several of the main characers survive, but an untold number of ship personnel make it off unscathed as well. Remember, we only saw that one pod get attacked but we saw a couple jettison safely.>> <blink> You didn't like the movie because there were more survivors than in previous movies...? <<Lol! Wait... you _were_ kidding about that... right? *Emambu slowly start backing away from Wilek*>> Heh...<<*reads last bit* Lol! Puree DC. Add some spices and seasoning and I'm sure you could sell the recipe to resturants and make some money. ;)>> <hehehe> Wonder if I should sell it as a main course, a dessert, or a beverage. ;P

Coyote> <<See, I did something unbelievably stupid during an on-car electrical test of a customer's car. A pad of forms I neede got sucked toward the engine when he revved it up. Instinctively, I reached out to grab them ...... and the middle three fingers of my left hand got caught by the fan.>> OMG!!! O_O' Yikes...hope it'll heal without losing mobility. o_o <whips up something using Mr. Thingy's chemsynth devices> This is designed to temporarily disable the body's pain receptors. Be careful; under this stuff, you could take a bullet and never realize it until you bled out.

Kaioto> Welcome back! ^_^

Xanathar> <<The game was never overly hyped unfortunately,so like System Shock(and Gargoyles,even though it's a different medium),it never sold well.:(>> Ah. <sigh> Why does that happen to all the good stuff...<<Fleur and I went back to being friends in May *Sighs unhappily* because her uni studies leaves no room for a romantic relationship at this time,we still email each other regularly,although Fleurs in the middle of exams at the moment,which has forced her to give up on a social life competely for a few weeks.( I can't wait to hear from her again,I wonder how she's doing? )>> :( At least you're still friends, though...

Delphi> Dear God> <ROTFL> ^_^

Taleweaver> <> :( Ack. Ah well; at least you got on the show...<<And my favorite of the three with Agnes Moorhead as an old woman fighting off an alien robot only to learn at the end of the robot's true origins.>> Ooh...I'll have to check that out (I'm a fan of hers). ^_^

Mary> <<ugh. It's 8:31am and I have to go to the UCD Med Center to get an MRI (a kind of brain scan). I can't tell you guys why I'm doing this, but I'll tell you if there's anything.>> O_o Hope nothing bad shows up...<<Well, so far after the MRI test I've discovered only one problem: I can't taste anything!!!! That @#%$ing test did something to my taste buds!!!!>> Oh my... >:/ <glares at DC> You, get over here. <grabs DC by the lapels> People don't do that to my friends and come away unscathed. <knocks out DC's teeth with a set of brass knuckles> Don't do that again. <cauterizes DC's tongue with a blue-hot brand> Capisce?

Warpmind> Happy birthday! ^_^ (Hm, bit late for that...) <<You've never played Worms? Intolerable! You MUST try to get a copy - the game is hilarious! You control a mercenary team of 4 worms, all hell-bent on destruction, with graphics that resemble nothing more than the old Lemmings games...>> Indeed? Hm, and I was under the impression it was a Lemmings-style puzzler...I'll try to get my claws on a demo. ^_^ <<Oh, and nothing closer than "Thu Thu"? Hmm... still, moving between the stars... you gotta admit, it does sound rather suspicious... (remember that little e-mail you sent me about those Conspirators?)>> The Cthulhu Project? Hm...<<When Gus is released from the slammer (assuming he's still vengeful), do make sure to record on video when he comes to assault you. I'm gonna *love* to watch his savage demise. ]:) (Heck, if you get it on tape, you've got proof it was self-defense, AND you've got a potential bestseller...)>> <MUHAHAHA> It'll be bigger than Faces Of Death...<<Zoogs are... well, they're a kind of rodent. I'm sure Todd or Wilek can fill you in. ]:)>> Um...sorry, the only Zoogs I'm familiar with are Zoog Disney and a disputed Centauri god. <<They're not *my* robots. I think they might belong to Wilek, but I'm not sure...>> Yup. :) <<I've kinda given up on the whole idea about that Supervillain... hmmm... maybe if I send you the basic idea, you could GURPSify it for me? :)>> Hmm...maybe he can do the same with a few characters of mine that I can't figure out how to do with World Of Darkness or Call Of Cthulhu rules? :) <<By the way... about Wiccna sex magic... I read something about much of that kind was "binding spells" of various kinds; does this sound right? For sure, being "bound" by such spells sounds a bit... interesting. ;)>> Ehh, I prefer the Blood Bond. Less messy, less of a hassle. <<And, of course, because he was temporarily insane when he granted Man the gift of Free Will... ;)>> Temporarily? He made insanity the founding prinicple of existence and the key to greater and deeper insights into the fundamental workings of the multiverse...

Kyryn> <<So that's where I left that thing! Thanks!>> Ah. That would explain the serial number encoded into the inner surface of the event horizon. BTW, what do you use it for? :)

Robby> <<Also, the original box art for the Little Mermaid apparently had a snail with naughty bits, but I've never seen it for myself, so I'm not sure if that one's true or not.>> I don't know, but the box art that got released has a castle tower shaped like a naughty bit. That one I know is true; I have it. Still, I have to admit that, other than obvious things like that and the bit in The Rescuers, I tend to think these things are often matters of interpretation...you can see Freudian things everywhere if you think dirty enough. ;) <<Far more disturbing than the Powerpuff Girls having no fingers or toes... Powerpuff Girls porn. Its out there. ANd it scares me. A lot.>> <twitch> <twitchtwitch> [Wilek destroys the planet, just because.]

Selanit> <<Courage is new, untried, and so far hasn't been all that impressive. And good grief, what a cheesy name for the show!>> Yehh...I kinda like it (a few episodes have GREAT music, as does one of the commercials), but I do prefer Powerpuff Girls. Maybe if Courage had more pointless violence...<<My folks are getting him the new Legend of Zelda for the N64, and I got him the memory expansion pack you need to play it.>> Lucky son of a... ;P

Gunjack> <<If someone could lend me an unbiased opinion, how good is Xenogears? I was thinkin' about checking it out before this debate started...>> Haven't played it, but it seems to involve giant robots and theological intrigue (I think), and I'm into such things. ^_^ <<*Pulls a Pi icon from under his jacket, and hurls it at Paul* INFINITE DIGIT STRIKE!>> OOoh...I'll have to remember that. ^_^ <<...Right. You just made up most of those words, didn't you? ;)>> Actually, the Greeks and Romans did. I simply arranged them in ways that described my theories. ;) <<But is it STYLISH?>> Ohh, if only I could locate a screenshot...If you make it far enough in FF8, you'll see them. :) <<That could be my roleplaying creedo... My prefered assasination method (for important targets, anyway) is to wait for the target to enter a scyscraper, and then collapse the skyscraper. It takes some RIGHT quick thinking on the GM's part to get their NPC through THAT alive... :)>> Are you at all psionically enabled? Because that's how I plan to off a few characters in my fics. ;) <<C'mon, it's not THAT bad... Basicly, all it is is click and drag...>> Really? Hm...maybe it's easier than it looks...<<Sabin, as I'm worried about how many entity models the game will allow. They playable characters alone take up 10-15 models (Kain doesn't wear his battle armor EVERYWHERE...), and I've gotta have room for the enemies and NPCs... :P>> <blink> Are we both still talking about Quake 3? <> Vivi is basically a slight redesign of the Black Mage from FF1. <<*goggles* ...My good Lord... o_O>> <hehehe> <<You expected it to have something to do with the joke!?? Christine's good, but NOBODY could make a pun that long actually fit it's intro...>> <blink> So...puns aren't expected to be logical? <<Find a ROM of Panzer Dragoon. The graphics are cooler than StarFox, and the flying enemy fortress at the end is one of the coolest things EVER!>> Hm...thanks. ^_^ What system is it for? <<36 hours until I get my Milkshape registration number>> It's not freeware...? :/ <summons a floating severed rabbit head> Nailbunny, go fix it. <<Texas SUCKS! It's the end of October, and it's still uncomfertably warm outside! The weather hasn't even had the decency to change from summer to fall yet! ;P>> Ye gods; I'm in the same position and I live in the Great Lakes area...<> Now you've got me interested. <<True, but if I'm not mistaken, you dropped Les Miserables and Mark Twain into the catagory of "Good Smut"... o_O>> <Johnny 5 voice> Now this is some good slop! (Why did I do that?)

SRS Jr> <<Isn't that the same fella that played Ed Dillinger/Sark in the old "TRON" movie? I keep hearing the Archmage in his voice...>> Yup. :) He also voiced the MCP, actually, I think...<<a little-known Playboy pictorial, featuring Claudia Christiansen (aka Cmdr. Ivanova of "Babylon-5")...>> <a bell tolls in the distance> That, if I'm not mistaken, was the fifth sign of the Apocalypse. <<Also got to see some videos while hopping from panel to panel to event... one was a parody spoof of Dr. Who: in which the Doctor was played by Rowan Atkinson, versus the Master played by the actor who played the villain in "The World Is Not Enough". At one point, the Doctor is killed, and he regenerates... into a new FEMALE Doctor, played by the tall blonde woman from "Absolutely Fabulous"!>> Cool! ^_^ Actually, I think this could work as a serious Dr. Who story idea (I once saw a pic of Atkinson as the Doctor, and surprisingly he looked pretty appropriate for the part)...

WinterWitch> <<If those people want to be mean and place curses on people, well, then, kudos if it turns around and bites them in the a$$. Any body who knows the least bit of Wiccan rules knows that 1)We do NOT harm people and 2) Duh, the triplicity rule!>> Hm...something I've been curious about for a long time: If a curse is cast, will there still be 'feedback', so to speak, if the target has thoroughly demonstrated his deservingness of punishment? <<Speaking of which, I want to know what everyone's fav. candy is and what movie(s) you like to watch on Halloween.>> Candy: M&Ms. Movies...um, just about anything in my horror collection, actually...The Haunting, The Blair Witch Project, The House On Haunted Hill, Sleepy Hollow, the Nightmare On Elm Street collection, Jan Svankmajer's Alice...also Return To Oz, Gremlins, Scrooged, and The Nightmare Before Christmas, although they're not really 'horror' movies as such, despite being rather dark...

Lady Corax> <<Let me tell ya, though...I was a rabid fan of the original Power Rangers-especially Tommy, the Green one. Mmm...:) They should've kept it like that, instead of switching zords and actors every other month...>> Yehh...the first few generations of toys were kinda fun, but ever since Power Rangers In Space they've gone a bit downhill.

Lynati> <> Ack. :( Get well soon... <<It's just freaky, okay? it's like...I think I'm being original, and then discover that it's already been done. or considered, at least.>> Welcome to the Gargoyles Fandom Collective Subconscious. :) Trust me, this happens a lot. Remind me to tell you about Coyote X. <<DVD whatevers>> DVD-ROM drives? Those are great--much faster than normal CD-ROM drives, and they can play DVD movies. v^_^

David G> <<Ancient Aztec blood sacrifice - bad.>> But fun. :)

The Playstation 2> 10/26 is the day that I officially became sick and tired of this thing. I've hated it for a long time, but now I'm just fed up on top of that. Anyone seen the 'Playstation 9' commercial? It looks good (I wanna have a word with that octopus chick...actually a lot of words, primarily variations on 'ohh', 'ahh', 'mmm', and 'squeek'), but they're proclaiming their shoddy overpriced piece of schweinscheisse as the second coming of video gaming (I'm serious)...and the sad thing is, the public is swallowing it so eagerly that I had a vision of people kneeling in front of Richard Simmons. What's really pathetic is that I'll probably own a PS2 someday, when the price has gone down (a LOT) and there are actually decent games for it (probably Final Fantasy 10 and little else)...<sigh> Where did Sony go wrong? The original Playstation was a good system. Not great, but good. And the new redesigned PS One just reeks of awesomeness (I want the car adaptor and LCD screen!)...

SJ> <<Oh wait....I'm getting an update.....THIS JUST IN: There are no plans, I repeat, no plans whatsoever, for a XENOGEARS game for the PS2. Goddamnit.>> I hope not; the PS2 would never do it justice. Square has been cozying up to Microsoft of late; maybe there'll be one for the X-Box. <<And speaking of Wilek, where the hell have you been?! Had me worried for there for a bit. I thought the men in white coats had finally come to take you away for good this time. ;)>> :) They learned their lesson when their last away team was sent back to them in a grocery bag. A soggy one. <<Or at least I think he said something to that effect (I think you can find that in one of those small New Testament books that no one reads that often).>> I think it's in VII Confections 6:55. <<This is one of those shows that I watch, but I'm sorta embarassed for watching. Know what I mean? I mean, in a way, it's sort of like a "girlie" cartoon. Sort of like Sailor Moon, which I have yet to get into (I'm sorry, but not enough testorone for me. Short skirted sailor outfits be damned).>> Yehh...it is kinda girly, but I think it kinda has to be since it's a satire of a girly cartoon. ;) [Random CR dweller: "Thank you, Captain Obvious."] <<It's just a little bit disturbing that none of those brave young women have discernible digits on their hands or toes.>> I figure it's some kind of molecular bonding, something like how geckos are able to stay on ceilings. <<Well, it is once again Halloween, but unfortunately I will not be able to participate in the festivities this year because, for the second time in as many months, I am as sick as a dog. Normally my immune system is better than this. But I've got a touch of the cold/flu, so I'm stuck at home tonight.>> You too? :( Lots of people getting sick/injured here lately...<<Skippy, where the hell are you, my ridged foreheaded friend?>> Maybe at Warrior Women Of The Empire. Klingon porn. Absolutely terrifying. <<If anyone is looking for an excuse to anally rape Sli Sludge with a reciprocating saw, here's your opportunity.>> Why do I get the feeling you were thinking of me, just then? ;P j/k

Katara> Welcome back! ^_^

Doug> <<Thanks for your words about Granddaddy. I'm glad to see someone was paying attention. :P Would you mind if I e-mailed what you said to him and Grandmother once they get their new e-mail working this weekend? I'm sure they'd enjoy knowing that someone who doesn't even know them feels so about the situation. <grins>>> I'd be honored. :) <<Looking forward to seeing how, hope you get in control soon. <maniacal laughter>>> >:) I'm thinking, rabid carnivorous demon snails from the Dimension Of Pain...(Well, not really rabid, since rabies is a disease of the central nervous system and snails, demon or otherwise, don't have central nervous systems per se, but you know what I mean.) <<Then, when she got pregnant, he guessed it from her sickness and avoided the rest of us for a while so he could get time to get his thoughts in order. He had done so by that night, and Keith said that whether it was his baby or not he wanted to marry Steph and help her raise it. Shocked all of us, even more than Steph's pregnancy did, but get this- she said yes. So they're engaged now, have been so for three nights.>> O_O O_O O_O Wow...congratulations! v^_^ <<Keith and Stephanie want to get married April Fool's Day>> I like the way their minds work. ;) <<both can be annoying as hell, both are self-absorbed, both are pretty smart>> Curiously enough, that applies to me as well. Cept maybe the last one. :P <<Chuckie's Devils are a creativity demon of mine- the evil male counterparts to Charlie's Angels. Three big ugly men who do lots of crazy action and are commanded by the whims of the killer doll from the Child's Play movies>> I ever tell you you're an evil genius? ;)

Gside> <<Pitty that. It's quite fun figuring out the trajectory of your bananna bomb or your sheep, to get a triple kill (plus the two of your guys who were unlucky). But at the end, there are many, many craters.>> Ah...<redoubles determination to find a demo of this thing> <<But how do you stop the gravity from ripping you apart?>> Antigravs. :) (Neutronium is suited primarily for the hulls of starships and the walls of installations...) <<Have you seen the original animation bit with them? I caught it once on the internet. I believe the original title was Kick!@# Stew.>> O_o I'll...have to catch that...<<V gives you a tad more resolution.>> Ehh...I tried playing 5 once; I found the battle engine a bit clunky...I guess 7 and 8 spoiled me (they were my first RPGs). ;P <<Wasn't it Johnson and Johnson?>> I thought it was Buster and Babs. <> Seconded! >:) <<Taht, and you will never want to hear Martha Stewaret say anything about vanilla extract ever again.>> Can't be as bad as the eclair. <<You could probably get by with a 600MHz processor, 128MB RAM, DVD drive, and a soud card. But if you plan on getting some games (especially recent Quake derivatives), you'd probably want to at least double those numbers>> Dear GAWDS...Those are pretty much my system's specs (except I have a 450 Mhz processor)...I feel so old...oddly enough, my computer can play Quake 3 just fine...<> ...12 gigs...<buries face in claws, and vice versa> <<Has everyone seen the proof that Hell is exothermic?>> I took the measurements. Gads, but that place is dreary. The bits I saw anyhow; Wayne Barlowe seems to have had a much better tour guide.

Gasper> <<If Nintendo and Microsoft are smart though, they could easily supply their systems on time, and in full quantity.>> Here's hoping...

Winterwolf> <<SNOW is where the love is! :D>> Ohh yes...I need some snow. It's almost November and we haven't had snow. I don't want my winter to be like last year's...I think it rained on Christmas. :( <<Mmmm listen to music backwards>> I've actually done that; I extracted the Chapel theme from Shivers II, reversed it, and made it into an MP3. Very kewl. ^_^ <<Sony has been running in the red for some time now. Just thought I'd pass it on.>> <muhahaha> <<After a while it just started wreaking havoc with my sensitive nose and even my eyes at times so now I prefer to avoid people when they are smoking indoors.>> Me too; I can barely be in the same building as someone who's smoking without feeling like I'm drowning...

Paul> <<The CHRONO CROSS Track, by the way, is 'Orphanage of Flame'.>> I stand corrected. :) <<Are you making fun of me with the XENOGEARS quote?>> Nope, just trying to make everyone's day a little more surreal. :) <<If not, have you beaten the Game?>> Haven't even played it, unfortunately. :/ <<That was not my point, if that comment was an attack on me.>> It wasn't; sorry if it came off that way. (BTW, can I borrow that gigantic pie thingieoid you used on Gunjack? I could have a lot of fun with that...hehehe)

FS> <<Hudson: Nay, lad. I have seen many men get seriously get hurt trying to break up a cat-fight. Both by the women <he points to the girls> and by the males enjoying the show <He points to the trio, Wesley, Xander and Spike (From Buffy, not CSH!)>.>> <blink> Huh? What's to enjoy about a catfight? (Other than the outright brutality, especially if they both have chainsaws...I gotta figure out a way to write a chainsaw duel in my fanfics...maybe a zero-gravity chainsaw duel? Nah, it'd never work) <> I reacted the same way to seeing The 7th Guest and The 11th Hour in jewel cases on racks for $10-20...

Newcomers> Welcome! :D Deposit your sanity and enjoy our daily showings of grand guignol. :)

James Birdsong> <<Mojo Jojo and "Him" are fantastic archrivals.>> Agreed; Him is one of my favorite villains ever. I think it's his voice; it's very creepy. ^_^

Daphne> <> Congratulations! ^_^ <> I'll probably appoint you to something cool when I take over. How 'bout a high place in the Ministry of Arts and Literature? :)

Guandalug> <<If you've got an account in the Fanfiction-Archive on GFW and didn't already mail me / reply to my EMail - please contact me with the following informations provided>> Hmm, I'll have to attend to that later...

Jackal> Welcome back! ^_^ <<Call me if you need any money, don't drag me thur the muthaf***in court system cause I'm tired of that shyt, and if you do, I will bust you out for being an unfit mother, for doing acid while you were pregnant...>> She...did...what?! >:( <speechless>

Kit> <<Gus is dead. I don't know the exact details, but according to Officer Newsome, they had put him solitary for starting a riot in the showers on Friday, and for the letter he sent me. When they opened the cell door yesterday because he wasn't responding to repeated calls by the guards, they found Gus lying on the floor, having apparently slit his own wrists with a knife he'd smuggled in somehow and bled to death. That's what they're saying, anyway>> The good side: He's out of your hair. The bad side: We won't get to make that snuff film...<<You remember how last week I was talking about Stephanie being real sick, feeling woozy, and throwing up a lot? Well, my parents were here this weekend and they and I were able to finally convince her to go to the hospital and get checked out, because her trying to rest it off was obviously not working. She spent Saturday night there, and they found out what was going on. <drum roll> Turns out she's two months pregnant, and her symptoms are all those of intense morning sickness.>> :O o_O O_o <speechless> Congratulations, I think...<<Don't worry, you're not that predictable yet. Unless your kitchen's bears also drive T-80s and shoot at cockroaches. They don't, do they? Just wondering. <grin>>> :) Actually, they drive Cornerian Tank Corps Landmasters (I have a big kitchen) and shoot at...um, whatever I pay them to. hehehe

Theology> Gunjack has made most of my points for me, but I do feel like further explaining my stance on the matter:
The Creator made it necessary for men and women to procreate in order to ensure humanity's continued survival, then made it impossible for most of them to get along well enough to do so.
He gave man free will and insatiable curiosity, then told them that they could eat from every tree except...<eeny meeny miney mo> THIS one.
He chased a bunch of charlatans and crooks out of a temple with a makeshift whip, then 2,000 years later, allowed TBN to come into existence in order to show us what would have happened had He not done so.
He made the world to be ruled by sane people, then made it so that only insane people would understand it.
There are other such incidents that I could cite, but what I'm getting at is this: The world we live in could only be the creation of the multiverse's greatest comedic genius. This kind of thing is why I'm a Christian (this from the guy who owns a book detailing famous serial killings); if any deity is worthy of my worship, it one with a sense of humour like *this*.

Azarah> My gods... :( It's terrible what you're going through, what you're suffering...But you have all of us to come to for comfort and support. Always. <> <blink> Well, if the look works for you... ^_^

SOROW> <> Oh gads. >:/ Hope that clears up soon. Some help: [Wilek administers a toxin to Sli Sludge that causes him to puke up his guts. Literally.] <<I've been really stressed over a lot of crap and I'm kinda upset right now because I can't try out for the school musical cause I have too much stuff going on. Life sucks.>> Gods, from one problem right into another. :( <hugZ>

<moment of silence for Steve Allen>

Jessie> <<I gotta say the coolest birthday present I have received, though, is RPG Maker for Playstation. Has anyone else seen this thing? It's incredible! It allows you to literally create your own RPG video games, even down to drawing the characters and monsters (and if you are not artistic, it has tons of pre-rendered graphics).>> Interesting...I might have to check this out. ^_^ Can you create your own magic/battle system?

Mara> Welcome back! ^_^ <<It's frickin' cold in November!!!>> Not in my area... :(

Aaron> Also welcome back! ^_^ <<Have you seen Evangelion? If not, you should, I think you'd like it.>> Something about giant robots fighting angels, I've heard? I've been thinking about getting into it; thanks for the confirmation. ^_^ <<As for the Chibis, they're around. I think they've just gotten a bit bored with this place for the moment.>> Probably...I got in touch with two of them; they're currently trashing Neoplanet headquarters (and oh boy is *that* a long story). When I called, they were acting as if I'd interrupted something...<shrug> <<BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! Unidentified NGE castmember, (Take your pick. Compelling arguments can be made for pretty much everybody. Including Pen-Pen) to Kaji Ryoji.>> Was this some manner of Simpsons tribute?

GXB> <<Will it be Dominique Destine, Darth Vader, Galvatron, Brooklyn, Optimus Prime or any of the other candidates that I may have forgot.>> Were it just my personal preference, I'd back Brooklyn, but Vader will be the best candidate for the advancement of my plans...

Infinity> Welcome back! ^_^ <<Perhaps some slip-up will allow Wilek to implement Phase 1 of the Nereus Project. In which case he'll have my full support.>> Possibly, but I imagine it'll be a few years...probably we'll wait until after the administration of a total incompetent whose administration really messed things up; our efficiency and ruthlessness will be a very refreshing change that's almost sure to get us the presidency. >:)
Wilek Nereus
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 07:10:00 PM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

Sorry for the double post, but:

ED - Yes, the opening flashback is, admittedly, a slightly reworked piece from "The Goddess of Winter"; then again, the opening flashback in "Hunter's Moon" was a slightly reworked piece from "City of Stone" (Demona's attack on Gillecomgain). Actually, that flashback was (more or less) the inspiration for this flashback.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 07:06:15 PM
IP: 216.87.46.23.dialup-stl.primary.net

GREEN BARON - As I recall, Luther also wanted to have the Book of Revelation removed from the Bible; he apparently considered it just too weird. I wonder what he would have thought (or did think, if he actually came across it) of the Protestant interpretations which viewed the Whore of Babylon as a representation of the Papacy.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 07:00:45 PM
IP: 216.87.46.23.dialup-stl.primary.net

PENDRAGON: �THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING� PART ONE

***Comments and Spoilers***

A flashback! Hooray! Even though this scene does seem rather familiar (did it show up in �GODDESS OF WINTER� or something?), it was still lovely to finally have flashbacks back in �Pendragon�. Frankly, this has been the only thing missing from the series: relevant additions nicely chucked in. The implication that it�s Morgana�s aim to have a female betray Merlin out of vengeance for her mother is fascinating: the obvious implication would be Morgana granting Mary freedom from her curse.

Lots of smash-surprises: Morgana not only is pally with Mary�s dad but is going to be walking down the aisle with him shortly. When I saw Professor Cornish mentioned it really threw me, but chucking in the marriage part was frankly delicious. The care she shows for Mary makes me think that this is something she�s done for Mary�s sake, but then if she and Nigel met only a week after �THE CURSE OF RIVENCROFT� then this seems unlikely. Perhaps she is using him to plant information about the Connection. Or perhaps � as would be nice � she actually loves Nigel, but may come across Mary as something of a Brucey bonus. I do like Morganna�s development this season.

We get a quick glance of werewolf reaction to silver, which sounds like a potential problem for Mary�s silver spoon environment. And we get the seldom-used team-up of Arthur, Rory and Dulcinea. I know there�s a need to alternate the knights but it�s nice to see it shaken up a bit (although obviously Arthur�s pretty much a given). And Morgana�s nephew has been framing King A all this time.

The show was stolen by Seabairn really. He got inside Arthur�s head, drew out Arthur�s fears and came out with some of the most hilarious dressing-down of everybody�s favourite Once and Future King that it was stunning. �Gotcha�, and particularly the lovely �pull the other one it plays �Jingle Bells�� were fantastic.

So much in this story was conceptually stunning: and given the content, I could hardly fail to be delighted with it. But honestly, I felt that the presentation lacked that killer instinct. Arthur said he was going, the others gave a few cursory indications of dissatisfaction and he went: surely that was missing a great change to hype the drama. Nigel and Mary never really came into confrontation, she was just grounded and sent to her room at the end. The possible threat evident to the reader (but not to Mary) of having Morgana at the Seftons was never played up: she seemed there to raise a few eyebrows, deliver the plot shockers and then to run off for the cliffhanger. A little loose. And although it may be interestingly presented in part 2, it seems to make far more sense to have Nigel�s knighting in the morning (although I�ve no idea when they take place), and having Mary ushered to the ceremony and unable to escape, with the probability of her going wolfey a couple of hours before the big event.

But the biggest structural thing that bothers me is� Arthur. The episode never goes for the jugular. His confrontation with Seabairn is chilling, but this conclusion is a real chance to showcase the man: his tendency to take danger on behalf of his knights may have been shown in its relevance to Morgana. Is Morgana this sort of person: she certainly seems to want to keep her vengeance cleanly focused on Arthur and Merlin. But then this season she�s always worked through others: the Sleepers, Northgalis, Seabairn and Braddock. If this wasn�t really possible, we could have been given a chance to see Arthur actually consider the implications of dragging Rory and Dulcinea along with him; or his actual plan. Searching for clues is downright stupid, and the reasoning doesn�t stand as it�s been left. Arthur surely isn�t stupid: or if he is, why hasn�t this apparent stupidity really been looked at. The pointer to the nature of Arthur�s early awakening, the references to Uther�s difference from Arthur and Arthur�s moral values compared to the modern society: they were all chucked in, but little explored, or with little hint towards exploration.

The cliffhanger is exciting structurally, but no more so from the telling than from the plot. Mary is off to her room, the knighting isn�t for another evening yet, and Seabairn�s revelation that Morganna is his aunt just doesn�t seem presented in a way that really grabs somehow: not as the last note before the climax of the season. And Arthur, Dulci and Rory are running� but still free. It�s not bad, it just isn�t as sharp as might have been better: �I don�t know what else to do at present� just isn�t a very gripping final line in any situation. Whether just having sharper dialogue, or some theme more extrapolated than any evident in the story thus far is what�s missing I�m not sure. But something is missing.

Don�t get me wrong: I absolutely LOVE this instalment and have had great time reading it. But it�s the climax to my favourite season of �Pendragon� to date; how could I not? If it was part one of three I�d probably feel a lot less harsh about it, but the story just doesn�t feel like one that�s bubbled to a halfway point yet somehow.

Nevertheless, I�m extremely excited about next week, even if it is the last �Pendragon� for a while. You guys have produced a splendid season of stories and I hope (a) that you're dead proud of yourselves, and (b) that the conclusion is a great climax.

I take it from the tone of discussion in the room that another season isn�t in progress yet. Are new runs of �Gargoyles�, �Dark Ages� and �Timedancer�?
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
London, England
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 06:57:13 PM
IP: webcacheh08a.cache.pol.co.uk

Well, I did cast my vote today. As much as I like Nader, I voted for Al Gore. I did not want to deliver NY to Bush. I feel it is too bad that this country is a two party system. As for the Senate, I voted for GASP Hillary Clinton. I had my reasons to do so. And I'm a registered Democrat. My mother was very disappointed with my vote for Hillary and I had to hear about that all day.

Well, we'll find out what happens tommorow. May the best candidates win.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 06:43:46 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

*Lynati Enters*

ah...I have Capoeira class every day this week. Special workshop while the Master is here...So I may not be able to make it here every day. Also, I'm going to miss Buffy and Angel...oh, well.

Warpmind: Not banged up, just sore. I'm still on basics; can't "play the game" in the circle, yet.
Right now we're working on "Forms"; I was given a simplified version as i haven't even learned half the footwork that you need to know do to the full sets. It invloved stacked chairs, kicks, and trying to remember to jenga low enough and properly use momentum. As for dancing, i feel a need to quote mt own stories here:
(on the topic of current popular dancing styles...)
"No, I don't dance because I look like-How did Josie phrase it? Oh, yeah. "Like a forty year old white male corporate exec on soul train"..."
I'm not quiter THAT bad...but any damage done would be unintentional. :(
However -oh, nevermind.

Gside: ...That helps. As much of it as I understood, anyway. I have a list somewhere of the computer "requirements" for the upperclassmen for certain courses...I'll post it here or email it to you at some point.

what about the song? who was it written by?

Other Things...

"...They hurt me today, with their words, their mocking.
So I put the word "CRUEL" where I am not likely to forget it.
Now, each step I take reminds me that these are not my friends.
Each step, telling me I owe them nothing..."

I don't like the real world that much. But you guys in here, I like.
I just thought you would want to know.
I feel the need to continue a certain trend and end this post with a quote.

"Somebody do something -anything- soon;
I know I can't be the only...whatever-I-am...in the room, so,
Why am I so lonely?
Why am I so tired?
I need backup; I need company;
I need to be inspired..."
-Ani Difranco, "Face up and Sing"

*Lynati Exits in search of food*

Lynati
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 06:40:19 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

RP WARNING!!
ISLIP airport. Two figures arrive at the airport terminal covered by cloaks and long hats.
"The election will determine the fate of this state. Will an obnoxious Congrssman be teh new Senator or a certain power-hungry bitch who likes Planned Parenthood brand veal?"
"Well, that is only part of the problem. We will have to free the master and fellow name bearer, and you still owe him for that credit card bill."

"Well, tonight, we shall free him and crash the bitch's party. Plus, I might catch the real killer and practice my swing."**
TO BE CONTINUED!!!

Well, I voted today. Don't Blame I Voted for Harry Browne :)

I also voted against increasing my state income tax and voted for two things to help corporations in my state. I have no idea how much good that will do. I alos voted against two bond issues, since New Orleans has enough debt to deal with.

GXB> Gore will win New York state, so you can vote for the Socialist candiadate for all the good it will do.

I don't think Bush or Gore are really evil. They are both tainted by a corrupt political system and are too laden with their own special interests. Bush is very much under conrol of the Oil Industry, but Gore is owned by the Labor Unions, an equally despicable entity.

As for abortion, Gore can repeat his mantra all he wants to scare people, but nothing will ever be done to really change the laws, which won't be altered a few year's later. Both factions of the abortion industry are making a very nice sum of money and as long as the issue remains a debate, they have their constituencies to draw from.

There are also a ton of minor league Senate candidates so you don't need to pick the c*nt or Lazio.

Entity> It's funny that the two most outspoken liberals pose as Xanatos. he strikes me as a fiscal conservative. I also wonder about his political connections.

I think a few other liberals post in this CR, but the only ones that come to mind are Skippy and Revel and maybe Taleweaver, though I don't know all his politics. For all I know, he could be voting for Tom Campbell for Senate :)

DPH> Did you look at that link about the Natural Law Party? I think EPA and OSHA should be checked to make certain they are constitutional. I would like a Supreme Court that would read the Constitution in plain English, instead of strict construction or broadly reading it to create new civil liberties and other activist measures like Miranda vs Arizona.

Todd> Maybe it was a Puritan plot to cause more trouble for Catholics, since Puritans hated anyone that wasn't of their damned heresy. I wish teh Englsih would celebrate the beheading of Cromwell's corpse. To me, that is a great symbolic mark and every Puritan killed was a step closer to tolerance for the United Kingdom. I hate Cromwell as much as Elie Weisel hates Hitler, in case you were wondering :)

DPH> Economic justice is ultimately the job of individuals, not of government. To try and legislate social justice of the economic variety is no better than the legislation people like Pat Robertson want to shove down our throats.

Paul Nathans> When you're old enough, maybe we can try and buy you a political office in New Jersey, too :)

Entity and Gunjack> My catechism states that someone ignorant of Christianity (specifically Catholicism) will not be damned. I think it ultimately determines how you live your life, and not just being a good person, since many non-religious "good peopel" are self-righteous SOBs who sneer at those who actually go to Church, but also fo rthso ewho follow a religion hwo well they practice it. If one religion is truly right and all others wrong, I imagine the worst penalty will be a few extra decades in Purgatory, which I believe in and I believe Purgatory is why we all won't automatically go to Hell.

Happy 23rd, Jessie.

Winterwolf> I await the letter.

GXB> <<And don't forget. Religion should mind its own business and not stick it's nose into a Democratic nation ;) >>
Actually, we're a Republic, though I generally agree with you, and I am sick of minsiters giving sermons endorsing candidates. I also think a church's tax exempt status should be based on the laws applying to non-profit organizations and many autonomous churches, especially non-denominational and Baptist ones are using their tax exempt status to rake in huge profits, including some very wealthy ministers in New Orleans who are stealing Catholic souls in the process. Also, the Vatican will not allow any priest or religious to seek political Office in the United States. I think all minsiters in a politcial office should resign their post or give up their ministry.

Niamhgold> My cold is much better, now. I also know of a way to solve the dilemna between you and your two guys. Just come to New Orleans and date me for a while, until you come to a conclusion :)

Taleweaver> I think you're overcautious. BTW, what do you think of Tom Campbell and Dianne Feinstein?

Aaron> His name is Harry Browne

Winterwitch> I didn't know Bush said that. What a fool. I wonder what Gore thinks of Wicca. He's one of those born-agains so I doubt he likes them either, unless he thinks they'd vote for him.

Martin Luther> he was right to oppose the profiteering of Reconcilliation, though I still support indulgences that don't involve material goods. He did not complain to the Catholic Church, but corrupt representatives of the Catholic Church who were in truth very secualr and decadent.

However, Luther was far form perfect. When he created his new religion (in itself an act of hubris), the Jews did not convert so he ordered massive progroms against them, the likes of which would return 400 years later. He also removed six books from the Old Testament and the Epistle of St. James, which Protestants later returned, because they were ratehr emberrassed. The Bible was established by the Council of Nicea and no one save the Pope himself has the authroity to alter the Council's decision.

Luther also attacked the doctrine of Transubstantiation, but compared to the symbolic crap, Calvin and Zwingli added, his was still somewhat respectful of the Living Prescence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Luther was also a puppet of the Germnay princes who offered him refuge, so he proved to be little better than what he opposed in many respects.

After the negatives, I have a grudging respect for Luther and I admire that he still went to Reconcilliation and did not abandon his devotion to Mary, who deserves the love and adoration of ALL Christians, and compare to frog monk John Calvin and schismatic Henry VIII, he was the best of the three main Reformation leaders, though I still regard him as a herectic, though I think he went to Purgatory and may very well be in Heaven by now. He was also pushed to leave the Catholic Church, so I think he would have returned to Mother Church if he were alive today.

I hope no one was offended by that.
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 06:34:18 PM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

Spacebabie- Okay, Coyote beat me to telling you Slayers is good. But really, it's great. Coyote, Mara, Aaron, Airwalker, Joxter, CrzyDemona, can all testify its good. The description you've apparently heard does not do it justice at all. I just worry about what Fox will do to it... They'll probably cut entire episodes, and butcher a lot of the jokes...
Robby
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 06:07:38 PM
IP: spider-tj044.proxy.aol.com

Spacebabie- Its hard for me to tell if you're being sarcastic or not... You are aware that the series Fox has gained the rights to is Slayers, my absolute favorite series of all time, right? (Even more so than Gargs in fact.) From the way you described it, its hard to tell if you've only read a brief and lacking description about it and are less than enthusiastic about it because of that description, or if you know full well what it is and you're just angry about Fox getting ahold of it since they will surely edit it to ribbons... But Slayers is a FANTASATIC series, even the dubbed version is pretty good. Like I said, it's my favorite series EVER.

Entity- Blue SUb 6 is NOT an anime known for quality, just good animation. ANd yes, that *is* the original music. Unless an anime has *very* oriental music, or long dramatic silences (ala DBZ's tendancy to go as much as 15 minutes without music), anime very rarely gets redone music, since hiring a composer and paying people to play the required instruments is quite costly. I wil give Cartoon Network credit tho. They left the naked mermaid in. They computer edited out the naughty bits, but she was quite clearly topless the whole time she was onscreen none-the-less. Cartoon Network is TRYING to not edit, but Blue Sub 6 is a series that well... Will need lots and lots of editing.

Robby
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 06:02:33 PM
IP: spider-tj044.proxy.aol.com

**reads Spacebabie's post**

AAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Fox* picked up SLAYERS?!

They're gonna mangle it beyond recognition!!!!!

**composes self**

Sorry. But Spacebabie ... I seriously suggest that before Fox shows episode *one* of that series, ya find it at a video store and watch what it's supposed to be before ox takes the knife to it. Trust me on this one. Fact, trust a lot of folks in here, including myself, Robby and Mara, on this one.

Argh ... sad, sad times, friends. Now please excuse me while I become a news junkie ... already not the best of days, I voted this evening smelling like a used oil filter (I accidentally wound up on the wrong end of a gallon of spilled used motor oil. :P)

**leaves muttering**
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 05:47:14 PM
IP: 216.28.101.174

Interesting trivial point> I met a guy once who liked to claim that the entire protestant reformation was made possible by rats.

See, when Martin Luther was posting his Thesies (sp?) Black Plauge (for which rat borne flees is the major vector) was ravaging Rome. The upper echelons of the Church were either dead, dying, or too busy to worry about what some little German guy out in the boondocks was nailing to the church door.

The theory is that if the Rome wasn't so ... occupied, the Church might have reacted more swiftly, and better. Possibly they would have just had him killed, or possibly they would have enacted reforms to molify him. Either way, things might have been a lot different.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 05:00:49 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

Spacebabie> Luther posted his points on the local college student bulliten board for debate purpsoes. It is only coicidence that such happened to be the church door. He didn't know it would make such a fuss.
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 03:35:07 PM
IP: h2odam.sdccd.cc.ca.us

Ok I'm full of cheese and getting ready to vote.
and it will be for Bush Heh Heh

Religion debate: Let me stick my two cents in here. I feel you should believe in whatever you want as long as you dont stick it under my nose. if you want to pray to the giant wheel of cheese then you may. I'm not a member of the cloth so I wont preacch. I will however complain.
I'm a Lutheran and we were founded my someone with enough balls to complain to the Catholic church((No offense GB you know I still love you))

on Abortion>>I feel the same way about it as infinity. If the pregancy was caused by rape. There is now way for Bush to get rid of abortion. What he mainly wants to do is get rid of Late Term abortion aka Partial birth abortion, and I agree with that desisiion.
PENDRAGON SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Like d the bit with Arthur's doppleganger. I hope Mary is able to live with her fahter without him discovering the secret. I feel Sophia might but she will keep the secret away from Nigel
i'm slight suprised Mary hasnt pick up on Morgana yet
END

PREVIEW SPOILERS FOR BUFFY AND ANGEL TONIGHT

We will learn Tara's secret

Angle is out of town and Wesley pretends to be Angel

End preview spoilers

Where have I been? playing with my stuff i recieved with my Birthday money. Got the new pikachu and a Buffy 2001 Calendar. Also some Sailormoon SuperS graphic novels. And I finished putting together my deathsycthe novel

FoxKids canceld Escaflowne and they still continue to be stupid. I have heard that in Febuary they will be airing an anime about a short tempered,flat chested red headed sorceres and her blond himbo body gaurd.
**begins to bang her head**

Well have a good one

Spacebabie
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 02:07:23 PM
IP: user-37kap3t.dialup.mindspring.com

Patrick: Yeah, I follow you. I didn't have time to go into it, but I tossed the very same argument up in my Epistomology class today for laughs. Everyone I brought it to came to the same conclusion as you and I. It was an amuzing diversion, however, one of those things we take for granted until we examine it critically and realize it is foolish to assume.
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 01:00:09 PM
IP: 141.133.147.152

...
Anonymous
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 12:58:09 PM
IP: 141.133.147.152

*skips in, followed by a very patriotic looking Angie-chan and a voter apathetic Demmie-chan*

I exercised my right to vote! YAYE! For actual canidates too, which is just odd for me since I was planning to vote Ficus.

Coyote:: Thanks, I'll pass the message along

Gathering news:: I FINALLY got a day job (as oppose to my true calling as an artist come writer come heckler come-- no wait, this isn't the adult CR) so I will be able to afford coming to the Con. I was gonna anyway, (I was GUNNA!) but it's a comfort to know how I'm going to pay for the room, plus the awards dinner , my art display panel et al.
Not to mention the inevitable auction.

In art news: I've taken some photos of artwork I've done for class and will be posting them up later today (hopefully). They're for sale. In other words... they're for sale. Mara needs money. So, i'll post a link to 'em later and if you see something you like... they're for sale. i also will be doing commission work, so if you have a fanfic character.. or anything.. I'm for sale... contact me

:)

Shinigami - [MCordova999@hotmail.com]
Brooklyn, NY, USA
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 12:34:58 PM
IP: 25tfr.dynamic.fitsuny.edu

*Warpmind enters.*
Hallo again, gang...

Niamhgold: No, I won't be gone after all. :)

Aaron: Thankee, but that's pretty much yesterday's news now. :)

Revel: The candidates are never *members*. They're Illuminati *puppets*; chances are they don't even have a clue who runs the show, anyway. ]:)

Entity: Thousands of innocents being slaughtered every day while the issue is being discussed... and this is new how? Seriously, though, I'm pro-life in the understanding that all life should be preserved, but if the choice is between saving a pregnant woman, and saving her child at the expense of the woman's life... I'll vote for saving the woman.

Gunjack Valentine: Yeah, it *does* make sense...

Lynati: So you're really banged up now? Just remind me not to ask you to dance at G'01. ];)

Well, that's it for now. Later, gang.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 11:24:27 AM
IP: port44.msx15-ber.ppp.cybercity.no

*Steps in*

****PENDRAGON SPOILERS*****
Seabairn??? ha ha!! Child of the sea? Good on ya for that connection!! I loooove that kind of attention to detail, when the names reflect the character's personalities :):)
Great episode, good writing, good character development. I am waiting with baited breath for part 2 !!!
I am always so sad when Morgana is portrayed as a "bad guy". The legends show of so much emotional pain and sadness that she must have suffered.. at least there is a little of that in here. Morgana is beginning to resemble Demona a little, in that she was more innocent in her youth, then develops a thirst for vengence and turns nasty. This adds a whole new dimention to her character, showing she is not just "evil-bad" but a little blinded and lost, as well. Interesting bits about Morgana's daughter, too.
All in all, a good juicy plot-furthering brain-teasing episode! :)
**********END PENDRAGON SPOILERS*************

I will try to hunt down some spoilers for the Buffster tonight and post them later :)

Love
Azarah
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 11:14:55 AM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

*steps out of the mirror in a corner of the room*

Aaron> [will the top ten list work again] I think it certainly will. As far as I know the old top-ten-list works even now, though it seems to have some flaws, okay. But it will, sure.
[is there any way to access that information for things that haven't made the top ten] In the new version, EVERY story will be displayed completely with the number of times it has been read - be it in the Top Ten List, the 'New Stories' List or the Author-Story-Page. Same design nearly everywhere, cause I dislike different designs where I can avoid them using the same method over and over. *smirks* Typical thing for a programmer - re-using designs and code-pieces.

GSide> Hey, your ideas were worth implementing - and I don't mind a few hint on what this project needs. And yes, this is indeed a call to all users of the fanfic Archive, be it authors or readers: If there's anything you really want to see in the archive (technical things - I'm no writer myself) - mail me, and I'll see what I can possibly do.

**** TGS current Pendragon episode - SPOILER ****
Oh my - who thought upon Morgana as Mary's stepmother? This is a strange twist - something that ought to be a cliffhanger for the next series. I don't think this should be forced to be resolved in the last episode to come on next tuesday...... but as the story's already written we'll have to wait. Good work, Todd.
*** END SPOILERS ***

Well.... yesterday evening I zapped through the television-channels in search for something to watch while cleaning my room. Well - I ended up with a "cartoon" that looked all CGI to me..... Finding it interesting enough I kept to the channel, wondering what I caught there. A short research in my newspaper revealed that I was viewing 'Max Steel', first episode. Well, finally something new I thought, not having any more informations about the series at that moment, just the nagging voice in my head telling me that I had heard about that beforehand. Well - imagine my surprise when I finally found out where I had heard about this series - the moment where the credist flashed by (can't say "scrolled by" - it was much too fast) and I caught the Name 'Greg Weisman" - even more than once. And the dubbing actually is agreeable.... more or less. I'd like to compare, but there's no english version to be found anywhere near.
Well - they're airing the complete first season (and after only 'bout 9 month later than the US-start - a small miracle for German TV, if ya ask me). I certainly do hope to get that first episode again - I dislike incomplete tapes :)

Now I'm waiting for 3x3 eyes to air here *laughs* preferably in subtitled version - that way they can't mess up the voices :)

*having said what he had to, he turns back towards the mirror and enters it, vanishing from the room once again*
Guandalug la'Fay - [Guandalug@gmx.de]
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 07:42:49 AM
IP: mailgate-b.ais-gmbh.de

In reply to some comments from Paul directed to me...

>> Once again, there is no absolute truth in this universe but that absolute truth is nonexistent. <<

Can anyone else here NOT recognize the inherent contradiction within that statement, or am I the only one? That statement tries to eat cake and have it too. There either can or can not be "absolute truth" in the universe. The minute you say "except" you have created a logical inconsitency that will keep you going around in circles forever. It's the same as making the statement "Everything I say is a lie, and that is the truth." Think about it for a few minutes... see if your brain doesn't start to twitch.

>> The only absolute for the universe is that there is no absolute. <<

But that is a self-contradictory statement. Again, see above.

>> Chaos itself is but an interpretation of sutuations. Lack of absolutes does not mean chaos, it simply means lack of absolutes... In my interpretation. To me, chaos can be riotous, intermingling noises, but it might not be to you.<<

Chaos by definition is not tangible, and it need not be noisy or riotous. Chaos in its purest form is the absense of order. It is the natural state of total equilibrium which the universe seeks to eventually attain, but even that process itself, called entropy, follows observable patterns that through logic can be expressed as scientific laws.

Such natural paterns laws are not subjective things imposed upon the universe by man; for all man can comprehend, they have existed on their own since the beginning of time itself, and will continue to exist as long as the universe itself continues to exist. From the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter to the speed of light... they exist as universal and unchanging regardless of how man chooses to recognize or quantify them. I can call it "pi" and someone else can call it a "Royale with cheese" but its still the same thing. "A rose by any other name..."

>> People can use different symbols and/or languages... Provided they understand each others' symbols and/or languages. <<

And therein lies the rub. That shared understanding is KEY to communication. But that shared understanding CAN NOT exist if one or both parties is of the belief that everything is subjective and may be interpretted in any way one desires, or interpretted differently every time.

>> One can engage in an argument when the meaning of the words in a language and/or a language are themselves in question, depending on what you meant by the above statement. If you meant that if such things were subjective one couldn't engage in an argument, I don't believe that. People can still argue even knowing that their truths are all subjective. If you mean different symbols and/or languages are used, then in order for an argument the differences must be understood. <<

But an understanding of the differences is only possible if some common ground can be found to build from. It's difficult if not impossible to have discourse with a person who questions even the most basic elements of language, saying things like "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

And that reminds me... :: scurries off to work and to vote ::
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 07:18:12 AM
IP: ac90f67c.ipt.aol.com

Now that my dad's finished posting on HIS comment room, I can start part two... start time is 11:15 PM, temparture is freakin cold, and my house has mice.
Hit it.

Paul - I figured I'd get my replies to you out of the way first, as this is the least complicated issue I'm involved in...
After reading your post, I conclude that the debate is over. You have accepted my basic problem with your philosophy (though not it's ramifications), and you have escaped my logical dilemas by rejecting logic entirely. But for now, let's get down to cases.
<<Regardless of how much I've rejected, that doesn't mean everything falls out. There is no such thing as 'absolute truth', and one of your arguments was if there wasn't we would have chaos. Not accurate.>> My arguement was that if there were no absolute truth, there would be Chaos; therefore, since we do not have Chaos, there must be Truth. Not a foolproof arguement, as I failed to eliminate other possible causes for society's stability. <<There's no such thing as 'absolute truth' yet we don't have 'chaos' anyway, because enough people have agreed on and/or compromised on stuff to the point that 'chaos' has not yet come about.>> Your statement about Truth is unsupported. How do we know that there is no absolute truth?

<<Just because there is no 'objective reason' doesn't mean that there is no 'subjective reason'. I, for instance, have subjective reasons for respecting one's subjective opinions. You're entitled to not having them or having them as you wish. Not having said reasons isn't going to get you very far in life, though.>> I agree that there are always subjective reasons, but I humbly submit that according to your philosophy, those subjective reasons are illogical. If there is no right and wrong, the only compelling reason to do anything is if it benefits you directly. That leaves us with a philosophy of profound selfishness, where only the irrational reach out to help their fellow man. I still have not heard a compelling arguement to counter this point. You continue to talk about "subjective reasons", and yet fail to recognize that a subjective whim needs logical rienforcement before it will cause a rational person to act apart from their direct self-interest.
In addition, you've failed to muster up any form of condemnation for the thousands of evils Man inflicts on Man. Your philosophy is carte blanche to every form of injustice imaginable, and you refuse the victims even the solace of martyrdom.
You haven't mustered the courage to say it out loud, but you recognize no objective difference between a cop shooting a murderer and a murderer killing a child. Anyone who cannot recognise that distinction is someone I cannot trust to stand behind me.

On to the last point. <<The law is a subjective view, science is a subjective view, everything humans think up is a subjective view. Choose from the subjective views which ones you wish to follow, which ones you're neutral on, and which ones you don't. *That* is how life is determined.>> This statement contradicts both nature and human experience. Logic, which you have so cavalierly discarded, is the result of thoughtful observation of the natural world. Throughout all of nature is found an unbroken chain of cause and effect. The entire universe is built on basic, unchanging physical laws that have been in place since the first moment of time. You call all this "subjective", but you fail to explain WHY.
I'm sorry, but our debates end here. If you cannot recognize the Truth that "A is not not-A" (not the statement itself, but the truth BEHIND it that something cannot be both itself and it's opposite), then you are not a rational person, and there is nothing more to say. Please have a good life.

SJ><<Although, I actually sort of agree that ALL the candidates are evil, in their own special way. Realize that to get to the highest office in the land you have to do some pretty dirty, underhanded things.>> Interesting point. Maybe we should start electing poor swineherds... ;) <<Gore is evil too. But he's not on the same level of "evilness" as the Clintons, because remember--he's HIS OWN MAN. ;)>> Heh. :)

Entity - Dang, but it's nice to get replies so fast... remind me to post earlier in the evening more often. :D
<<What's there to hate to say? If there's an inconsistency between how you feel and what the Bible suggests, maybe that's warrant enough for reconsideration of the legitimacy of the Bible.>> "Trust your feelings, Luke?" ;) ...Not in a million years. From my personal experience, human emotion is the *least* reliable of the brain's products, and they change minute to minute for little or no reason. If something bothers me about my beliefs, I take it as a signal that I need to study the question more thoroughly, not as a signla that I should remove one of the basic pillars of my worldview. Such major changes should only be made after evidence is found.
<<After all, the written word is at the mercy of many, many things. The human conscience, on the other hand, is straight from God.>> Assuming that the Bible DID come directly from God, would He not have taken steps to make sure it made it's way through the centuries undamaged?
*Looks through the rest of the post, and frowns thoughtfully* ...Good questions, but I'm leaving them 'till tomorrow. Tey're gonna take some deep thought and some study, and if I try to answer tonight, I'll be up 'till four again. :P Sorry.

And on that dissapointing note, I take to bed.

Peace, Love, Dope!
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 01:53:45 AM
IP: pppa93-resaledallas4-4r7101.saturn.bbn.com

I really gotta remember to copy before I do anything else in another browser window.

Gunjack> <<My dad's been trying to hook me on his generation's music>>: I thought that was my job. My father did that to me a long time ago. Though I am also hooked on music from a few generations before his.
<<I've decided on next year's Halloween costume... Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner>>: I rule.
<<and a thompson of course>>: With or without the round clip?

Warpmind> <<My posting frequency will not be as disturbed as I feared after all>>: Great to hear.

Niamhgold> You know a couple people in here are curious as to what you look like.
<>: They should have had Randy Newman as the guest for that one. Hmm... I haven't done Burn On yet, and I'm due...
<<Mendelssohn, Mozart, and Copland>>: Mmmmmmm.... So nice.
<<then it's on to my analytical essay "in the context of social art history.">>: Why must they do this to innocent college students?
Rev. Attila> <<New Jersey is for sale>>: Not that hard, all you need to do is figure out how to change the composition and texture of lthe water.
<<let's start funds so Gside and Daniel Johnson an purchase their own politcial offices in New Jersey>>: I'm having too much fun as an engineer, so I'd have to decline. Berhaps you could forward my share to my aunt (who makes you look moderate).

Kyryn> <>: To each their own. My father prefers it to the others, perhaps his neophillia reacting with the concept bechind the technique.

Aaron> <<don't be dissin' Pong!>>: That's what I keep saying. The thing has its own zen.

Lynati> I just noticed that I forgot to give you a semi-important number last time, but I'll get to it.
<<Just something to write in (windows?)>>: Windows is the operating system (think: the thing that makes it (not) run). Word processing takes almost no resources, so that doesn't matter. You'd probably want a Word derivative for that.
<<and photoshop for basics>>: Photoshop really loves its memory. You'd probably want around 256Mb. As for a processor, you could probably get away with something slightly higher than average.
<<THEN all the extras like (gee, what's it now? CD burners or...MP3's is it? I just don't know...)>>: A CD burner is just something that lets you write to certain media. Which doesn't mean much if you don't have anything you want written. Which is where mp3s come in. Mp3 is a file type that compresses audio into reasonable sizes for current machines and modems. This brings me to the number I forgot: if you're going to get into mp3s (and other files: asf, rm, mpg...), you're going to want a large hard drive. I don't think anyone should get less than 15gigs, 30 is probably safer.
<<and DVD whatevers>>: I don't think there's too much difference from one DVD drive to another.
<<and all the other various things that I might need. (well, want.)>>: If you're going for anything you might want, be prepared to spend Bill Gates's life savings, plus more for the upgrading. (Yes, I'd like three parallel processing liquid nitrogen cooled Cray SV1s with the wide screen .10dp LCD monitor and 300 speaker surrround sound system with 5000kWatt subwoofer.)
<<peedy internet access goes without saying. Whatsit-Ethernet cards?>>: An ethernet card means nothing without a network into which to hook it. You'd probably want to contact a local ISP about a cable or DSL connection.
<<or are those already outmoded?>>: Ethernet is still good. I remember getting people jealous when I complained about being limited to three simultaneous downloads off one site limited to 50k/s each.
<>: Shame, that.

Todd Jensen> <<Kind of like the case of John Adams and John Quincy Adams>>: But John Adams actually did a bunch of stuff, so we know him for that (wasn't he the one who found out about the odd acoustics in Congress?).

Entity> <<Maybe he decided on that change *because* of the Israelites' bitching>>: Holy Grail flashback.

King Snarf> <<However, proof destroys faith, and faith is what God wants>>: Hitchhiker flashback. Anyone know where I could find a god Zebra crossing?

Azarah> <<though Evolution makes sense, it does make humankind feel terribly alone>>: Ever read about the Scopes monkey trial (it was probably in that class)? The defendant got the lead prosecutor to admit that the first day could have been a couple million years. I say evolution can be reconciled if you take the stance that God createdd circumstances that would lead to the development of man.
<<Funny how even the most "scientific" of theories still requires faith in order to substantiate its claim>>: Hence it is still a theory. The evidence wasn't preserved well enough over all the years. But we still can't see it, so it has to remain a theory.
I rather like how the creation story follows closely the order of evolution.
<<"there are two errors in the the title of this book">>: The the, and there is no second error?

Has everyone seen the proof that Hell is exothermic?

As I hinted before, the new mp3 is Brun On by Randy Newman. All about the Coyahoga, which should probably have been in Jersey (at the time).

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 01:50:36 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

*Lynati pokes her head in*

Capoeira class was great! we have a master visiting us, so now I'm in pain! weeee!
...what was that? did you say..."wacky"?
I'll show you wacky...I'll SHOW YOU WACKEEEE!!!!
(waves plastic spork around.)

(heh heh...Lynati the homicidal maniac? I think not.)

HEY, AZARAH, I finally e-mailed you! just like I said I would! and it's 3 pages long! Bwahahaha!
D@%#, i forgot to ask you about the name thing! aaargh!
...and to mention MY name thing! AAARGGGG!
(the second being, I'm only Lynati "the Uninformed' when I'm saying something that reveals just how uninformed I am. the title is not fitting -and thus is not used-100% of the time:)

King Snarf: that post makes me feel like MY head is on a pike...

*Lynati races off to read New story in th2e1 minutes she has before the lab closing.*
Lynati
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 01:38:03 AM
IP: 208.12.249.253

The ever-lurking Infinity steps into the light.

Hello, everybody! Thought I'd de-lurk tonight!

Mary Flanders; You got to go to a Samhain festival? Cool! I have a cousin whose Wiccan and I think it's really a neat religion. I've been surfing around the net trying to dig up as much info as I can about it. BTW I hope you and your mom worked out a deal on being able to burn incense in your room. I can't have an altar or incense in my room because 1.) it would attract to much attention and 2.) there's no way in Hades I could keep my niece and nephem from messing with it.

X-Files; Good show last night! I hardly watched it at all last season but if they have more shows like tonight's ep that could change.

Abortion/Religious/Controversial Stuff; I guess I'm more pro-choice for abortion if it's in the case of rape or if the mom absolutely can't keep her kid. I have to agree with SJ that I can't wait till tomorrow's elections over and we finally know which idiot we're going to be stuck with for the next two years. Perhaps some slip-up will allow Wilek to implement Phase 1 of the Nereus Project. In which case he'll have my full support.

Interfandom Candidates; If it wasn't for my fear of what might befall the rest of humanity Miss Destine would get my vote. Otherwise, I'd go with Galvatron. Be a welcome change to have a giant robot as president. Imagine the campaign tactics he might use.

Peace to all!

Infinity
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 01:21:44 AM
IP: 208.158.57.200

***Kyryn steps in***

Well, here's something to pay attention to:

Gentlebeings, TGS now presents

The Once and Future King, Pt.1

Story Idea by Todd Jensen and Entity

Written by Todd Jensen

Things come together...

***Kyryn steps aside to avoid the rush.***
Kyryn - [<<--clicky, clicky!]
Denton, TX
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 12:45:28 AM
IP: denm1-29.iglobal.net

*Azarah enters, groans a little*
Oh my aching spine... it would feel sooooo much better if it would just crack.. but nooooo *that* would be too easy, wouldn't it??? GAH!!
Had an interesting lecture about Evolution in class tonight. About Darwin and the Origin of Species and all that. Some arguments for, some arguments against. I think we probably all know the arguments but there was an image in the film that grabbed my mind. It showed God streaching his hand to Adam in that classic pose (what, is that in the Cistine Chapel?? I think..) and the God faded out and it was left with Adam reaching out to noone. The words were that, though Evolution makes sense, it does make humankind feel terribly alone..
Which is true. But then I suppose there are some who don't mind being alone (in the cosmic sense).
I don't think there is enough proof for Darwin's Evolutionary theory, at least not for the whole picture, and I sure don't think there is enough evidence to support Creationism. Funny how even the most "scientific" of theories still requires faith in order to substantiate its claim... ooo the wonders of the world around us..
I don't know which to believe. Having been raised with the choice of being whatever I wanted, my parents never took me to church. Once, I found some faith but it is gone, now. And I don't think it is coming back. If I see some cold hard evidence, then.. maybe, but as it has been said, this is all about faith and not about proof.
I can and do respect those who do or feel the need to believe in a God, in whatever form. I am angered when people claim that their way is the only way and all others will "go to hell". When I was 9, a girl in the schoolyard once ran from me because I didn't go to church and she said I was evil and would go to hell when I died. I cried and cried because it wasn't my fault I didn't go to church and I decided I should maybe have some faith. Look where *that* got me.. Maybe we make our own heavens and hells. For me, I don't think my mum is watching down on me from Heaven. Is that because she is in hell? What a lovely thought... Just because she lost her faith through the cruel actions of nature or "god" as she then believed, she suffers in hell? Some God THAT is to love.. *I* call that cruel and unusual punnishment and I have no respect for, nor any faith in any God that would act in such a manner. Though I guess if that is the case, then we will see each other again.. cause I am sure not going to change my tune just so I can be a good little sheep and go to great God's heaven.
If God can't get his bum out of the cosmic easy chair and work a little to earn my respect, let alone my love, then frankly it'ssomething he doesn't deserve. I think it would be much better spent on those of my living friends who do, thanks very much.

But since I have nothing to lose, I will be my own devil's advocate and quote from the French philosopher, Blaise Pascal who says, basically:
"many religions suppose that God punnished non-believers with suffering in Hell after death, and rewards believers with bliss in heaven.
"Suppose you believe in god. Either God exists, or He doesn't. If he does, you'll be granted the huge reward of post-mortem eternal heavenly bliss; if he doesn't you will be wrong but there is really no harm done.
"However, suppose you don't believe in God. Again, either He exists or He doesn't. If he doesn't then... well.. he doesn't and you were right. But if he does, you will suffer hell-fire and damnation."
This is an argument for believing in God from a merely cost-effective perspective.. :)

However... consider another approach:
There isn't really much evidence to prove the existence of God, and many rational people harbour great doubts. Certainly, if God was just and valued rationality, surely He wouldn't punnish people just for being reasonable...
He might even go so far as to reward people for their careful, independent habits of thought. What if He punnished believers for their laziness of mind, for going along with the herd and believing what there is so little evidence for?
In this case, it's clearly better to be a non-believer..

(cheap canuck 0.02$)
:)

that's it for tonight, and man I miss philosophy class.. and that great book "there are two errors in the the title of this book" Anyone read it? it's by Robert Martin. It comes HIGHLY recommended :)
Love
Azarah
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 12:43:58 AM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

WARNING---- THIS IS TO THE ENTIRE GOD DEBATE CREW, DON'T BE OFFENDED IF I DON'T MENTION YOUR NAME---- THANKS---- THAT IS ALL.

<If the Bible were 100% word-for-word true, then that would be absolute proof that God exists> No. Well, yes, but no. The Pharacies <sp?> and Saducies <sp?>, KNEW the Torra word perfect. The Isrealites prided themselves on memorizing the Bible <such as it was then.>. Even though they knew that everything Jesus referred to was scripture, they refused to belive in Him. Just because the source is perfect doesn't mean that everyone will believe it.

And God does show himself to us, you just have to be willing to see it. I'm sorry, but the idea that a cosmic "accident" started all this just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Macro evolution does not work. Take the theory of evolution: Nature will allow those best adapted to survival to survive. That means that in any area where two species fight for the same niche, only one will survive. This also limits inteligence. A dolphin may be really smart, but they do not figure things out ahead of time. After running into the same stimuli over and over again they learn that stimulus A = response B. Humans, on the otherhand, are very poorly set up to survive in without some sort of "civilization." We require clothing to stay warm, and tools to do what other species can do naturally. If Humans and Gorillas had ever competed for the same area, there would be no Humans left, all our ancestors would have died of starvation.

<Faith is Reasoned> No, its not. We can be reasonable in faith <not fanatics> but it makes no "sense" to allow the rest of the world to persecute us, and yet thats what the Bible tells us to do. "Rejoice when you suffer all kinds of persecution" ect. ect. Once we have faith we can find reasonable arguments for it, but ultimately, I don't care what "evidence" you point to to the contrary, my answer can always be, "So, what if God just put that there to keep us guessing?"

-------Most Important Part, Don't Miss, You Guys.-------

In the story of Job, he is crushed by Satan. His entire family is destroyed, his wealth stolen, and his health taken. Job remained faithful. "Naked I came into the world," he said, "and Nake I shall depart."

Does this make any sense? NO. It doesn't.

Yet through this attitude, Job was rewarded by doubling his fortune and having 10 more children.
Now for the punishments:
Job's Wife "Curse God and Die": Had to bear 10 more children. Ladies, tell me that wouldn't hurt.
Job's Friends "You're wrong, we're right.": God wouldn't listen to them until/ unless Job asked for them to be forgiven. Now, this is a little harder to understand, but in the time of the Patriarchs, it was the Patriarchs who spoke to God for their families. These three men suddenly lost their possistion to a man they had been calling the worst of sinners for days. Fun, huh?

Therefore: God doesn't show himself physically, because he wants us to believe <also because man is sinful and would die upon seeing the face of the Almighty. Even Moses, the only human ever known as a friend of God, only got to see His back in passing>.
Faith cannot be reasoned, even if it is reasonable.
When you make your choice, you will be judged. If you choose "right" you get the good stuff. Otherwise, you're SOL.

Again, no offense is ment by this post, if any is taken, please contact me privately. Thanks.

Az.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 12:25:12 AM
IP: 63.88.215.140

On the eve of the election, I thought I'd talk about a political candidate that we can all make fun of--Pat Buchanan.

I must say this: even though the man does not even have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected, whoever is running his ad campaign is an f'in genius.

I've seen 2 Buchanan commercials lately, and both are just hilarious. I'm not talking funny, I'm talking slapnuts funny.

The first, one I just saw today, is a slam on Bush and Gore. The setting is an auction at an auctionhouse, and both Bush and Gore "are for sale". Among those who buy and pay for Gore are the Red Chinese and the Buddhists, and those who buy and pay for Bush are the big oil companies. Then you have Pat coming on and talking about how both "beltway" parties are bought and paid for. Which is kind of scary, cause he's right. I mean, I think it's a fair and depressingly accurate non-partisan point to make that both the 'pubs and the 'crats are *somebody's* bitch. Big oil, the Commies, somebody's got their fingers in our pie.
Wait--finger in pie? No, no, I promised myself to cut down on the double entendres....

The other commercial was funny cause it had to be the most xenophobic ad I've ever seen. It's this old man, sitting at a dining room table with his cat, eating a meal. Suddenly, a pice of food goes down the wrong end, and he starts to choke to death. He quickly dials 911, and promptly gets a menu instead of a real live operator. "If you speak Spanish, press one. If you speak Chinese, press two. If you speak etc." On down the line, with no buttons for English. Meanwhile, the guy passes out (presumably to die).
I was awestruck at this ad, especially after Pat did his usual spiel about how foreigners are ruining this country. It was amazing! How the hell can he get away with that? I would imagine that there would be a host of minority groups that would object to it. But it was funny, cause I can't believe that a serious political candidate would dare to show such an ad. It takes balls, though, I'll give them that.

Religion stuff: I'm going to be fair and address everyone, on both sides of this "debate": You are all right. And you are all wrong. You have all the answers....but you don't. So how about you sit back, drink a nice glass of ice tea, eat some pie, and ponder this brainteaser that has just developed: How can Britney Spears still claim to be a virgin when she just got her nipps pierced? Frankly, I'm scratching my head over that one. I'm all confused, and more than a little uneasy about the whole situation. I have a feeling that God himself (nonexistent or insane, you pick the flavor!) is stumped over this one.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, November 7, 2000 12:18:13 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Here's my $0.02: The Bible cannot be accurate, at least not 100%. Why? Simple. If the Bible were 100% word-for-word true, then that would be absolute proof that God exists. However, proof destroys faith, and faith is what God wants. According to some, faith is what God thrives on. So, logically, the Bible cannot be wholly true, or else, God either a) doesn't exist, or b) is insane.

People are either going to think that's brilliant or demand my head on a pike...
Matt "King Snarf" Maybray - [reginald_q_bumbershoot@hotmail.com]
Drexel Hill, PA, USA
Monday, November 6, 2000 11:18:26 PM
IP: a030-0539.phl2.splitrock.net

Know your rights...

Federal law states that if the work hours your employer requires you to work on election day overlap the times the polls are open, they must give you two hours off at some time during the day to allow you to go vote. They cannot keep you from the polls by making you work the entire day.

A public service message brought to you by the Dominque Destine for President campaign. :)
Patrick Toman
Monday, November 6, 2000 11:15:57 PM
IP: aca394bb.ipt.aol.com

I gotta get up extra early tomorrow morning to vote before school, since I'll be working till after the polls close. I just love the way our democracy is set up. There's one day. Be there, or you're screwed. And they hurrumph over the low voter turnout our country is suffering from.

But anyway, let's move on to the more interesting stuff...

Gunjack: <<>>

What's there to hate to say? If there's an inconsistency between how you feel and what the Bible suggests, maybe that's warrant enough for reconsideration of the legitimacy of the Bible. After all, the written word is at the mercy of many, many things. The human conscience, on the other hand, is straight from God.

<<<The problem is that by revealing himself directly, God would take away our free will and destroy any semblence of faith. One of the major points of Creation was to create beings who could *choose* to love God, and the only way that choice can remain intact is if there's room for doubt. The idea is that God has left enough hints of his existence to put us on the right track without proving himself conclusively.>>>

Oh my...

I don't know quite how to react to this. I'm reading it over again and again. You just took my biggest gripe with Christianity, something I've always felt the need to prove to my adversaries, and displayed it proudly as perfectly self-evident.

How is leaving us in the dark the only way to ensure that our free will stays intact? If God revealed himself to us, we would still have free will. We'd still be perfectly capable of saying screw off and turning on the television (however unlikely that would be). I always thought free will was a gift, that our ability to choose or reject God was something we should value. But look, if it's the one thing keeping me from knowing the truth, then it's a pretty lousy gift, as far as I'm concerned! God can have it back, with my sincerest "thank you" for the thought.

You're saying that faith isn't actually a means, but an end unto itself. That faith is actually the POINT. This leaves me speechless. To me, faith can be a beautiful thing, but it's also only a desparate thing. When someone is stuck in a cave and their friend climbs out to get help, faith is a positive thing there. But there's only faith because it is needed. You don't jump into the cave in order to practice it!

If our belief in God is supposed to be the prize of a grand chicken crumb hunt, then what about the dense people who aren't good at the game? Are they just supposed to follow? What about someone who looks at all the crumbs and comes to a different conclusion? Are they just supposed to give in to the majority?

My ultimate question is: Why? Why the "choice" at all? Why throw us in a dark room with clues as to who, if anyone, is outside holding the key?

Whew... that was quite a load. But you left me little choice, you understand. You can't just go making jaw-dropping statements like that. ;)
Entity
Monday, November 6, 2000 11:03:07 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Hi all. I'm feeling much better and I'm over my strep throat. I've been really stressed over a lot of crap and I'm kinda upset right now because I can't try out for the school musical cause I have too much stuff going on. Life sucks. But thank you to all who wished me well this week. It helped a lot. Lots of love.
SOROW
Monday, November 6, 2000 10:47:23 PM
IP: a020-0872.dll2.splitrock.net

A few quickies ...

Mara: Pass along my congratulations to your mother. A marathon is a very rough thing to undertake, she's a far better person than I for even *entering,* let alone finishing.

Milady Corax: Y'know, I read USA Today this morning, they're projecting Arizona to be one of George W.'s states already in the bag. Glad to hear you've already got your vote in ... myself I have to rush home after work and run to the elementary school down the street from my house to vote. I'll be a late-voter. ;)
BTW ... I'm on IM right now ... come on-line and we can chat for a bit. :) **returns hugs**

**waves to XenaTrek and everyone else before swooping out**
Coyote the Bando - [gathering_motor_city_2004@hotmail.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Monday, November 6, 2000 09:58:04 PM
IP: 216.28.101.40

Valentine storms in, looking REALLY pissed and packing a 10mm Riyer Chaingun*

DC, you miserable piece of worm-meat! Get your worthless rear out here! *Begins firing bursts of APEX shells into dark corners and other nooks and crannies*

Uuurr, that hacks me off. I was just finishing up a detailed responce to Paul, Patrick and Greg when my post was erased... *bares teeth* When I find that DC, I'll beat him into a jelly...

I haven't got enough time to rewrite the whole thing, so I'll just give ya the first half now...

Entity><<So, if a new scripture were to be discovered and added to the Bible canon, in which it clearly does state that being athiest, agnostic, or non-Christian (or even just one of those three) are Hell-worthy offenses, would you accept it?>> I hate to say it, but that's what the passages I pointed out seem to say... The leniency that's hinted at seems to apply to those who've never heard at all, not those who don't follow.
<> Challenge away, old man! No complaints here! :D <<I'm just trying to get your opinion on a matter: which has the final say, God's word or your conscience? Not forgetting that God gave you that conscience.>> Good question, and a toughie since my conscience has been formed a great deal by what I was taught as a child... I suppose the answer would be God's word... *Gasps of horror! He's abandoned Reason!* ...Which in turn is trumped by Reason. The God I believe in is not irrational, and if it could be proved that he was, I would immediatly renounce my faith. If inexplicable logical gaps appeared in the Bible, I would cease to claim that it was God's word. However, up to this point, neither has happened. :P
<<How is punishing them afterwards productive in the least?>> It isn't constructive, but seperation IS what his nature demands. He gives people a choice, and then abides by their decision. Assuming that the Bible is true, there's enough evidence of His existence to hint at which way to go.
<<Maybe he decided on that change *because* of the Israelites' bitching, but can you blame people today who only want something they can so much as look at to reaffirm their belief?>> The problem is that by revealing himself directly, God would take away our free will and destroy any semblence of faith. One of the major points of Creation was to create beings who could *choose* to love God, and the only way that choice can remain intact is if there's room for doubt. The idea is that God has left enough hints of his existence to put us on the right track without proving himself conclusively.
<<We're weak. We need God. Yet when a person loses their faith, is God there to sit down and have a talk with them? To hold their hand?>> As Green Baron put it earlier, that's what his servants are for... :)
<<Always did think that first generation got jipped. Especially poor Moses, after putting up with all their crap. I mean, come on.>> The first generation had it coming in a BIG way... Check out the bit where Moses comes down the mountian to find God's people worshiping a metal cow. He has to do some pretty fast talking to keep God from incinerating the lot of them. :)
<<Generally, those who have rejected religion have also rejected the possibility that they are unquestionably right.>> As should we "believers". To do otherwise is to descend into fanatascism.
<<LOL. If only God got into this whole new-fangled concept of the internet.>> Heh. Don't I wish... :)
<<...but it looks a little "over the deep end," so to speak.>> Ooooh, that was physically PAINFUL! ;)

Patrick><<and this week the topic of choice seem to be religion - more specifically, who is going to hell and who is not.>> This really isn't what we wee discussing... Entity merely pointed out an apparent inconsistency in my beliefs, and I tried to reconcile it. Same for this post; He's asking about Christian beliefs about Hell, and I'm doing my best to give him the straight dope. <<Ergo, is it sound logic to use quotes from the Bible to prove the truth or validity of the Bible's proclamations of who is hellbound and who will be saved?>> Of course not, and we haven't been. We've just been exploring what those beliefs ARE... <<IMO, doing so is clearly applying a subjective viewpoint. "Your god is not my god as described in this book here, therefore you are wrong and I am right; I am saved and you are damned for all eternity.">> I agree totally.

Greg><< And don't forget. Religion should mind its own business and not stick it's nose into a Democratic nation ;)>> For the most part, I have no problem with "seperation of church and state"; unfortunately, I think it's been getting just a touch out of hand lately. To which creeping tentacle of fundamentalist dogma were you refering?

Warpmind><<*LOL* Well, to be honest... it's not my actual belief... it was something me and a bunch of buddies philosophized one late evening. LATE evening>> The scary part is that it makes a twisted kind of sense... ;D <<Plus, there had been some beer circling the table.>> It shows. ;) j/k

Niamhgold><<Bush: "And it looks like the Great Lakes are on fire. Even _I_ know that's not good!" ;)>> ROFL! I'm still partial to the clip I saw somewhere of Gore using his laser vision to zap the moderator's head off...:)

Attila><<We ask that Republicans and Libertarians and Independents and Green party members vote on Tuesday November 7, and for Democrats and Socialists to vote on Wednesday, November 8.>> Dirty pool, old man! Shame on you!
...Think it'll work? ;D

Azreal><<Those who "reasoned" their way out of religion deserve it because any religion is based on faith, not on reason.>> I disagree. My faith at least IS based on reason, and I think God wants it that way; that's why he gave us logic, and a rational Universe to use it in.

Taleweaver><<Now, people start digging their heels. This is where is turns from sharing ideals to who is right and how to show up who they think is wrong.>> My goodness, I hope not... I'll continue to try to use logic to convince others, but a dialogue doesn't have to be a dogfight...
<<That may not necessarily be so. As a storycrafter, I know that my stories have power over me. Characters I create are parts of me and what happen affects me. How could it not?>> I never said it was any other way... But an author's emotional attachment to his story doesn't weaken his control over it. It will affect his decisions about the story, but he retains the power to alter anything within his creation.
It can hurt you when your characters are in pain (and the Bible shows that God feels the same way), but the final call is always yours. You may not want to kill a character, but there is no such thing as a story that the author can't alter if he wants to. <<It's like the dragons say "You can't feel without being touched.">> Well said.
<<There is such a small distinction between faith and self-delusion and people cross back and forth on it all the time.>> I disagree, for the reasons I mentioned to Entity. My faith is based on logic and knowledge, not on flights of fancy. <> I totally agree. That's why I enjoy talking to you, Entity, and the other athiests/agnostics in the room; since I've been raised in the Christian faith all my life, my sense of skeptisism is stunted. So rather than wracking my brain for doubts, I take the lazy route and let you guys provide them, and skip directly to the examination and defense. :)
<<Personally, I don't need someone dying for my sins.>> A more accurate statement would be, "I don't believe in Sin". If you admit to believing in sin, you've already undercut your position.
<<Another part of me comes from what I learn and I can't be all I can if I take the easy approach and use faith as a universal answer to the incomprehensible.>> Are you under the impression that we Christians do this? I'm sorry, but that particular philosophy was discredited hundreds of years ago (hence the saying "All truth is God's truth"). Sure, you still run across isolated pockets of it, but you still find Flat Earthers and Communists, too...
<> Would not a better solution be to stop running, break out the binoculars, and figure out a way to avoid the cliff?

'Kay, that's it for this part. I'll be back later to get the rest... :D

Peace, Love, Dope!

Gunajck Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 6, 2000 09:54:58 PM
IP: pppa43-resaledallas3-1r7101.saturn.bbn.com

**LC enters, applauding Reverend Attila**

Attila> Thank you for reminding everyone of that last-minute announcement! Now, everyone, remember your scheduled day, and get out there and vote!!! (otherwise, like it's been said, you can't complain if you don't like the choice!)

**BEGIN CORAX'S POLITICAL COMMENTARY. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!**

SJ> You mean the liberals didn't know we Republicans were all those evil things? How silly. Of course we're evil. And yes, good to remember that Gore is HIS OWN MAN. I forget that sometimes... ;)

Did anyone hear about Gore's daughter speaking in Washington? She was giving a speech in Seattle, and was telling the crowd how wonderful her father, Al, was to help her learn geography and the state capitals long ago, so that she could really appreciate speaking in the capital of Washington...Seattle. The crowd stayed very quiet, because they all knew that the capital of Washington...is Olympia. :)

Just a quick thought...has anyone seen Dubya's nephew, also George Bush? He's a Latino-looking guy, and let me tell you all, he's a hottie! Heck, if I were still undecided, Bush would get my vote just so I could see more of this guy! :) (just kidding, folks, really...I did make a decision as to who I voted for based on substance...honestly!) ;)

Thank goodness for early absentee ballots too. I'm glad I already made my choice.

Well, it'll be interesting to see how things turn out after tomorrow. Have fun, everyone, and get out there and vote! :)

**END CORAX'S POLITICAL COMMENTARY. THANK YOU!**

Coyote> Hi, there! Hope you're doing well! I'm sorry I haven't had time to chat with ya or anything...first week of the real basketball season kinda kept me busy when I wasn't doing homework. :) I hope to talk to ya soon, though! **hugs**

Later for now, everyone! And have fun!
Lady Corax
Monday, November 6, 2000 09:24:11 PM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

Azarah> You are right when you say that's what he was put on trial for, but that's not <at least according to Plato> what he actually believed. He did believe in "a demonic entity," though he actually called it a Demi-God who told him what was right and wrong. He still believed in the Greek gods, however. As he put it, "If a Demi-god is a child of the gods, how can I not believe in the gods?" <slight paraphrase.> I spent about four weeks out of a semester arguing these same points in my "Literature Clasics" college class. The only reason it was that short was we had to get onto Plato and Aristotle as well. I'd be more than glad to do the same with you if you want, but for the sake of everyone elses sanity <what's left of it, anyway> I think we'd better do that via e-mail.

Incidently, his "suicide" was a punishment placed on him by the people of Athens. They didn't have enough support to execute him, so they instructed him to drink Hemlock instead. Because he truely believed that what he had taught was correct, he did not take the opportunity he was given to escape.

Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Monday, November 6, 2000 08:01:02 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Gunjack: <<<To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure. If you want to be technical, the Bible clearly states we ALL deserve Hell. However...>>>

So, if a new scripture were to be discovered and added to the Bible canon, in which it clearly does state that being athiest, agnostic, or non-Christian (or even just one of those three) are Hell-worthy offenses, would you accept it?

I don't mean for that to come off like a "challenge." I'm just trying to get your opinion on a matter: which has the final say, God's word or your conscience? Not forgetting that God gave you that conscience.

<<<In any case, I believe in a just God. My job is to worry about those I can reach, and to trust that God will deal fairly with the questionable cases.>>>

And in the end, that's all that really matters, and all I need to hear.

Warpmind: <<<No, I figure I'm leaning more toward pro-life than pro-choice. I'm just not about to bullying people into the same belief...>>>

It's just that abortion is such a potentially urgent issue: if pro-lifers are on the money, thousands of innocents are being inhumanely slaughtered while people "discuss" it.

Azrael: <<<Those who "reasoned" their way out of religion deserve it because any religion is based on faith, not on reason. I am a Christian, God tells me to believe, and I do. No "reasoning" is going to change that.>>>

But then that is their own failing. It's not harming anyone but themselves. They've misunderstood what it is to believe, and so they're missing out on the benefits of knowing God during one's earthly existence. How is punishing them afterwards productive in the least?

<<<In the Old Testament the Isrealites whined at God, things were too hard, they didn't have enough food, he'd lead them into the wilderness to die, ect. ect.>>>

That was a tad different. The Israelites *had* someone to complain *to*. In our day and age, God doesn't make himself apparent like he did in the Old Testament. Maybe he decided on that change *because* of the Israelites' bitching, but can you blame people today who only want something they can so much as look at to reaffirm their belief? If something has crushed a person's faith, that is because we are all fallible creatures, the way God intended us to be, right? We don't have God's will. We're weak. We need God. Yet when a person loses their faith, is God there to sit down and have a talk with them? To hold their hand? That's all people want today. They're not just whining. They have nothing to whine to.

<<<Did God say "oh, thats okay, I've been too hard on you" or did he instead kill almost all of them off and then let their children into the Promised Land?>>>

Always did think that first generation got jipped. Especially poor Moses, after putting up with all their crap. I mean, come on.

<<<Even those who chose no religion, IN GENERAL <not everyone, I understand that>, have used "reasoning" to prove to themselves that their preconcieved notions are correct. How is that not "faith" of some kind?>>>

Generally, those who have rejected religion have also rejected the possibility that they are unquestionably right.

Taleweaver: <<<If I'm any judge of religious debates. Now, people start digging their heels. This is where is turns from sharing ideals to who is right and how to show up who they think is wrong.>>>

Leave it to the cynical dragon to prophesize doom. Now everyone will scurry to sweep the discussion under the rug. :)

<<<Questions "What if there is no God?" "Why is there suffering?" and "Why should I believe?" are valid ones and
honest ones. They shouldn't be dismissed because it questions faith and those who ask it aren't less than what they are for doing so. When 'faith' keeps you from asking those questions then it really is blinding.>>>

Well said.

Aaron: <<<He does. It's called Ask Greg. ;)>>>

LOL. If only God got into this whole new-fangled concept of the internet.

Blue Submarine #6> Okay, a comment and a question. First off, the comment: I thought the first episode was lukewarm. Some nifty CGI and decent cell stuff, but it looks a little "over the deep end," so to speak. (I amaze even myself with my witty repartee.) Secondly, the question (which will probably be answered by Robby): Is that CRAP the real music???!
Entity
Monday, November 6, 2000 07:32:54 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Well, with Election day tommorow, I thought I'd remind everyone of the interfandom nominees. To tommorow we'll find out who our next President will be.

Will it be Dominique Destine, Darth Vader, Galvatron, Brooklyn, Optimus Prime or any of the other candidates that I may have forgot. Oh and Al Gore and George W. Bush. I heard they were running to. And Nader and Buchanan.

Well, we'll all find out tommorow. I'm personally undecided between Dominique Destine, Galvatron and Nader.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 6, 2000 07:25:32 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

**UNIMPORTANT STUFF**
I was playing one of my favorite games [Gladiator] and using my own created levels and realized that I brought one of my team members up to a certain level I never thought I would. Oops, having a team member that powerfull presents problems when designing future levels.
**END UNIMPORTANT STUFF**

You know what is scary, you realize I could put a header up of 'Unimportant stuff' and everyone would check to see if it really was unimportant. But of course a label of non-nuclear on a bag would not be checked, right?

**Why There Is No True Justice In America**
First, we have to agree to what 'true justice' means. If we do not, well we can not have a debate.

I could start with economic justice and assume true justice is a combination of all kinds of justice. To prove there is no economic justice, I could disapprove the conservative theory that when unemployment goes down, wages start going up to attract people. A man working 40 hours a week should be able to support his family of a wife and a kid, without having to go to college or reach a management level position. But I remind you, I am against raising the mimimun wage to make this possible.

My lawsuit against the insurance company involves justice: the insurance company wants to settle for as little money as possible no matter what happened to me. On the other end of the spectrum, there are people out there people who want to collect millions for minor inconviences caused by an accident. I do not consider that justice.

What about the people who have trouble getting the jobs they want (like me), but can not because of lack of experience and those same companies would rather increase immigration quotas to fill those positions? Is that justice?

What about those dads who say they love their children but do not to pay full their child support? Their children have to rely on government assistance. I meet one of those dads. Is that just?

That is the tip of the iceberg.
**END Why There Is No True Justice In America**

**BFTS RP continues**
DPH's car is climbing mount Cannon, when DPH asks, "I am going to order pizza for everyone. I'll take a Supreme Pizza. What toppings does everyone else prefer?

Jason replies, "I like Supreme. But which pizza place?"

DPH replies, "It is a special one on mount Cannon. We will stop there and pick up the pizza. No offense, Frost, but I think it would be best if we ate in a secluded area to avoid the surrounding people staring at you. Now, what toppings does everyone want?"
**END BFTS RP for now**

**RP RELATED**
Winterwolf, since we have certain plans, you get to make a decision about where DPH & company stop at.
**END RP RELATED**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Monday, November 6, 2000 07:19:08 PM
IP: max1-51.cwy.cei.net

I have got to come in here more often on the weekends.

Winterwolf: I would take cough drops, but any "man-made" drugs make me gag. Even the so called herbal cough drops make my stomach turn. I have NO idea why. Thanks for telling me when Gargoyles would start. I was about to go insane waiting!

Green Baron: I think all my family left Wales. I'm not sure, because my family history has a lot of holes in it. That's cool that you have Norman in you. I might have, however, again I'm not sure. :)

Sevarius Jr.: I agree with you 100% on the presidential candidates being evil. I really dislike Bush. First of all, he seems like an idiot. Evil but an idiot. And secondly, he said that witchcraft was NOT a religion. A$$hole!

Jessie: Happy Belated Birthday!!!

X-Men Evolution: Damn! Can I say that? Anyway, I knew there was something I wanted to watch this weekend. Does anyone know what time it airs? Was the first ep. any good?

Well, gotta go. Hope everyone continues to have a good week, or it gets better.
BYE!
WinterWitch
Monday, November 6, 2000 07:13:57 PM
IP: ppp-63-202-222-168.dialup.snrf01.pacbell.net

ED - Yep, I've read about those two signatures of Guy Fawkes'; they're quite chilling.

Probably the most amusing argument that I've come across for not voting for Bush was this: if we get him in the White House, we'll risk getting him and his father constantly mixed up with each other because then there'll be two President George Bushes, with only a W. to keep them distinguished from each other. (Kind of like the case of John Adams and John Quincy Adams).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 6, 2000 06:57:35 PM
IP: 216.87.46.109.dialup-stl.primary.net

*Azarah steps in*

Oh great... just got back from a weekend of healthy arguing with my father, just to find out I'm going to hell.. :(
THIS WEEK SUCKS!! ALREADY!!!!

Azrael> Nope, I think you have it a little wrong about Socrates... He went to trial for three reasons, first because he did not believe in the Athenian gods, second because he was "corrupting" the youth and third because he was introducing new deities... And he died for that, too. His "new god" was his own spirit guide, he called a "daemon" (which, incidentally, we would translate as "demonic being") and this being told him when his actions were right or wrong, ultimately leading him to believe that his suicide was not wrong and allowing him to face death with dignity..

Lynati the Uninformed> YAY!! Send me your STUFF!! I can't wait!!! (I love stuff like this.. and I have waaaaaay too many ideas, but never enough time, so maybe I could show you my Kibou/Nadia manga outlines and we could swap opinions !! :) YAHOO!!

Green Baron> got your invite but... my computer apparently doesn't like it so... :( GRRRR! (I tried, though, and thanks!!)

Voting> GO ON, ALL YOU CRAZY AMERICANS AND VOTE!!!! VOTE I SAY!!!! (I am just excited because at the end of November, I get to vote in OUR Federal election!!!!! And besides, if you don't vote, you don't have any right to complain about how your country is being run... and then the CR would lose all that conversation material.. and that would be no good at all :b
Anyway, the night class (the only one I actually want to take..) is calling so I must vamoose!!

*vamooses*

(with love, of course, even though it doesn't count cause I'm going to hell with all the other atheists..:( )
Azarah - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
Somewhere in the Great White North
Monday, November 6, 2000 06:45:22 PM
IP: 129.100.216.148

*Lynati Enters, glances around*

Want to say "THANK YOU" to those of you who responded to my earlier posts.
For those of you that offered advice, it has been noted for future referance.
Continuing on the computer subject:
I am not looking for anything over the top. Just something to write in (windows?) and photoshop for basics...and THEN all the extras like (gee, what's it now? CD burners or...MP3's is it? I just don't know...)and DVD whatevers and all the other various things that I might need. (well, want.)
Speedy internet access goes without saying. Whatsit-Ethernet cards? or are those already outmoded?
I really don't know enough to know all of what I want- BUT when given the options, I can figure out what I DON'T need.

Anyway...

Gunjack: I thought "Dust in the wind" was by Kansas.
Whose version is the original?

Azarah: I WILL e-mail you. soon. I promise.

Gside: (SEE ABOVE) ... I don't usually game. Got my stories in my head to keep me entertained...and the fact that I'm going to have to go back and re-re-write the first version (xmen crossover) _and_ finally write out the Exo-squad and Buffy crossovers,_AND_ continue to write out the current (Gargoyles) ones...we-ell, that amount of busy-ness doesn't even include my school related work. I've got a six-year backlog of mental material I have to try and remember...But If I go work on the old stuff before I finish writing out the new (40-odd chapters with Gargoyles...so far.) I'm liable to forget them.
Which would suck.

I'm gonna go eat and see if Capoeira class is still on for tonight-they've been kind of screwy with their schedules recently, and when i was sick i missed a couple classes...
TTFN!

*Lynati Exists!...err,Exits*

Lynati
Monday, November 6, 2000 06:35:05 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Well I'll make this quick, I've got a Color Rendering project and this one's going to be great. We're designing a carpet square. More accuratly a big ol' rug. The best part is... anything goes! (evil grin revealing fangs) I can't wait to see his reaction to this.

Warpmind- If those two canidates are society members I think they lowered their admission standards. Although Bush and Gore in a Celebrity Deathmatch would be worth my attention.
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, tx
Monday, November 6, 2000 05:53:18 PM
IP: spider-tr064.proxy.aol.com

The floor in the center of the CR begins to crumble. A hand, bearing aloft a shining spoon, bursts through and Aaron hauls himself into the room.

(Bad Ash voice) I POST AGAIN!

And with great timing, I might add.

But first, a moment of silence for so many people that to list them would make a mockery of something solemn.

Welcome to all the new comers.

Happy belated birthday to everyone who had one in.... dang, how long ago did I post?

SOROW, Azarah, Mary Flanders> Hugs.

What the Hell... Hugs all �round. Hugs for everybody, including Jackal. Well, �most everybody, anyway.

Skippy, Lady Ariana, Traveler, Kiato> Welcome back.

Jenna> Thanks for mailing me the receipt. (Don't remember if I thanked you or not) Your apartment management had your car impounded? WTF gives them the right to do that?!? Oh, and I loved the KISS pumpkins.

Coyote> Ouch, dude. Sorry about your hand. And I know just what you mean about your car. There really is nothing funnier then the expressions of people in hot-sh!t sports cars, (usually Cameros for some reason) when I blow by them on the right in my Nova.

Warpmind> Congrats on the windfall, and getting to go to the Gathering.

SJ> The debates. Personally, I would've liked to see the five candidates (Gore, Bush, Buchannen, Nader, and whoever the Libertarians are running) gathered around a table, with John McLaughlin (sp) as the moderator:
"I ask you George "Beastie Boy" Bush."
"Well John-"
"WRONG!"
That or put the candidates, and their running mates in a steel cage match. Now that I'd watch.
And now that I've finally seen all of Blue Sub 6, I really have no idea how the filk Cartoon Network thinks they're going to run this.

Taleweaver> Would your outselling the Bible have some dire effect on this dimension? Just wondering. Sorry about Jeopardy, at least no one's started in with Weird Al's "I lost on Jeopardy" yet.

Wilek> Have you seen Evangelion? If not, you should, I think you'd like it. As for the Chibis, they're around. I think they've just gotten a bit bored with this place for the moment.

Kit><<I'll never understand why people give their kids the names Mildred, Duane, or Lucifer either.>> The first two I understand, but Lucifer? That a cool name. I'd name one of my kids that. (Of course, I'd name all of my kids things they'd hate, so...)

Gundalung> When the archive is recoded, will the top ten list work again? Oh, and since the archive must keep track of how much something is read, is there any way to access that information for things that haven't made the top ten? Call me egocentric, but I'd like to know how many times a particular work has been accessed.

DPH><> I think I'll pass that one off to Jenna. She's the clone fan. ;)

Tim P.><<And artillery is not considered to be a "small arm,">> Says you. ;)

Lexy> Congrats on the newspaper gig. Your Marriage and the Family class sounds a lot like my Women and Gender Studies.

Caliope> Inu-Yasha rocks! They've finally animated it. It comes out in Japan this month. Of course, I dunno when it'll get here tho'.

Doug><<There is WAY too much insanity in the Middle East.>> Actually, I think they're too much religion in the Middle East. Or, as P.J. O'Rourke referred to it: The Holy Land, God's Monkey House.

David G.> Take heart, man. I thought I'd never find anyone either. But sometimes miracles happen.

Kiato> Welcome back.

Attila> Don't make me punt the kitty again. Oh, and I look forward to seeing the MiST.

Kit> Hey, don't be dissin' Pong! ;)

Joxter> Welcome back. Come up with any new questions to pester Greg with?

Daphne> One hour with anybody, huh? I think I know who I'd pick.

Entity><<There would be SO MUCH less confusion if he were to just have an open relationship with us.>> He does. It's called Ask Greg. ;)

GB> Nepotism rules.

Azrael><<and they're still not fit to tie Jesus' shoes.>> I thought Jesus wore sandals. ;)

FS><<Yes! He made me drive around the entire city to get home! He is a BAD man! (He was in town, and the resulting traffic jam was so bad that I had to drive around the area (10 miles out of my way) to get home.)>> Well, I almost got rear-ended by Al Gore's motorcade, so I guess that makes us even.

SOROW> Hmmm, maybe I have Asperger's Syndrome. Nah, I'm just a klutz.

Marina Sirtis is coming to the Gathering! Happy day! I need more film.

Oh, and if anybody's looking for entertainment, there's a new MiST up that's pretty dang funny.

Later.

BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
Unidentified NGE castmember, (Take your pick. Compelling arguments can be made for pretty much everybody. Including Pen-Pen) to Kaji Ryoji.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Monday, November 6, 2000 05:52:23 PM
IP: 216-86-10-84.caprock.net

*after a long absence, Mara makes a triumphant and yet sadly non-descript return to the CR*

And today's lesson folks... Simplify Simplify Simplify. As oppose to Simple Fly, which may or may not be a more frigid cousin to Spanish Fly.

My mother ran the New York City Marathon yesterday at age 41. This was her first marathon although she has raced countless 5ks, 10ks and the like. She ran a 14 minute mile in most parts, which is slower than her usual 9 minute mile, however she said it was the best run of her life. She never hit was it commonly refered to as the WALL, mile 20 in a 26 mile run where most runners fizzle out, freak out and otherwise hit a mental and physical barrier. The wall is at mile 20 mainly because most runners don't train for more than 20 miles at a time.

I, the devoted and loving daughter that I am, did not sleep on Sunday like I had been planning to... but rather traveled along the route with my mom's live-in girlfriend Pat. We got to see Mom twice along the route, at mile 6 and at mile 19, and then waited for her glorious finish at Central Park. However we were not allowed at the finish line and had to wait at the "Family Reunion area". It was like waiting for luggage at the airport, folks.

Yesterday's marathon lesson? It's frickin' cold in November!!! The runners were fine ofcourse, since the gale was at their backs and helped them along but I nearly froze my behind off. We had also walked a mile to get to mile There Pat generously handed out $.50 cent candybars to many runners, giving them a little hope as well as a sugar rush. She spent maybe $30 dollars in all and had bought out a small cornerstore's supply.

An adorable side note is that two little latchkey girls who watched the race noticed her giving out candy, walked several yards away from us and then ran up to her saying "I'm runner number 126!"

They both got a mini-Snickers bar each. I love kids. Remind me to reproduce someday.

Anyhow, We retrieve my estatic and silverfoil bound mere, (they tape em up to help them keep warm since they strip down to runner's gear during the race) and rode the train home. She was the happiest I had ever seen her and my mother is a very happy person so that's saying alot.

And that was my marathon experience. Will I ever run it? Nope. But I'm glad I went and participated anyway.

The end. :)

Shinigami - [MCordova999@hotmail.com]
Brooklyn, NY, USA
Monday, November 6, 2000 05:25:29 PM
IP: 25th4.dynamic.fitsuny.edu

Politics> I once thought about the MTV even if you don't know whose running, you should vote. While I appreciate the sentiment, I disagree with the execution. I want people to vote, but I also want them to be informed when they vote. Part of the apathy many feel towards politics is because they focus on the style instead of the substance. Issues are reduced to sound bites and buzzwords and stances are euphamisms for compromises. The only way I've seen to get candidates to care about the issues is for the voters to care about the issues. That means we should be better informed and not vote simply because nagged into it, but because we want to. It's not a very popular thing to say, but I prefer those who don't care to stay home. The only way we'll get the candidates we deserve is by responding in kind.

Religion debate> If I'm any judge of religious debates. Now, people start digging their heels. This is where is turns from sharing ideals to who is right and how to show up who they think is wrong. Usually it ends with everyone, agreeing to disagree with the whispered "But I know I'm right" mixed in. It ceases to be fun around this point.

Gunjack> There is one major flaw with your theory about the Author and the creation. There is the supposition that both are distinctly sepearte. The God is separate from the creation and the creation is distinct from the creator. That may not necessarily be so. As a storycrafter, I know that my stories have power over me. Characters I create are parts of me and what happen affects me. How could it not? It's like the dragons say "You can't feel without being touched." (Dragons love riddles)

In dealing with faith, I fall in the atheist/agnostic group. Faith, especially the way it's been bandied about, sounds more of a closing off of the mind than an opening of it. There is such a small distinction between faith and self-delusion and people cross back and forth on it all the time. I feel faith should be questioned, really questioned not set up for interpretive reasoning or magical thinking. Questions "What if there is no God?" "Why is there suffering?" and "Why should I believe?" are valid ones and honest ones. They shouldn't be dismissed because it questions faith and those who ask it aren't less than what they are for doing so. When 'faith' keeps you from asking those questions then it really is blinding.

Personally, I don't need someone dying for my sins. Nor do I want someone praying for my soul, such as it is. Part of who I am comes from what I do and I can't be all I can if my actions are forgiven. Another part of me comes from what I learn and I can't be all I can if I take the easy approach and use faith as a universal answer to the incomprehensible. There is both wonder and terror in the world. I'll have them both. I may be wrong (out of a 50% accuracy rate, it's likely) but if I am going to lemming of a cliff into the abyss, I'd prefer it be from my own actions than following someone else.

Okay, enough of this stern discourse for me. I'll let someone else work on getting the last word.

X-men: Evolution> Looks good so far. Future episodes will tell. I'm curious how things will play out. Much of the character conflicts in the Fox series stemmed from them all being contemporaries. The Wolverine-Jean-Cyclops love triangle. Rogue's emotional scarring. I wonder if they'll try to work that in or if they'll come up with something different yet intriguing. Time will tell. Just a weird thought I had about the Batman Beyond spinoff with the robot. What if the Stalker was his companion. The thought brought a giggle. You have this curious and nieve (sp?) robot and this hard-bitten cynical hunter. Oh, the possibilities.
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Monday, November 6, 2000 03:53:42 PM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

Todd: Yeah, it rained last night as well. ^_^ I guess some Bonfire Night traditions never change...

Todd/GB: What was most horrific about poor old Guy is the comparison between Guy Fawkes' signature before and after he was tortured.
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
London, England
Monday, November 6, 2000 02:38:58 PM
IP: webinterceptorw04c.cache.pol.co.uk

***Kyryn steps in.***

GB><Kay Bailey Hutchison?> Okami and I are voting for her. We like the job that she's done so far. Personally, Okami thinks that down the road somewhere she might have a shot as a Presidential or Vice-Presidental candidate.

G'side><Rotoscoping on animated LoR> I really didn't like it that much and felt that it came across as a cheap-out.<I've always thought it would be amusing to double book a Gathering and a Trek convention. I wonder if it would be more likely to attract some of the voice actors> Actually, some of the Trek actors are very likely to run screaming the other way from Trek conventions after some of the 'mob' scenes they have endured over the years.

Doug> Glad things are going better for you.

Todd> Guy Fawkes day, huh? Interesting...

Jessie> Happy birthday! Congrats on the radio spots and congrats on getting back online!

Sevarius Jr.><Skippy> I seem to remember that hearing that he doesn't have net access right now due to some financial and other issues. If nothing else, I should run into him at UncommonCon over Thanksgiving weekend.

Later All!

***Kyryn steps out***

Kyryn
Denton, TX
Monday, November 6, 2000 01:02:58 PM
IP: 216.35.46.129

Entity: <Incidentally, I've always been slightly irritated by the proclamation of worldly acceptance that says as long as you believe in "a" religion, or "a" God, it doesn't matter which, you should be able to get into heaven. People seem to state that and then sit back with benevolent grins, satisfied in their own openness. So those who are athiests or agnostics are Hell-bound. Why is anyone one of those two? It's either because they used their heads and reasoned their way out of religion, or they suffered some kind of loss that broke their faith. So, basically, they're either thinkers or crushed individuals. These folks deserve an eternity of suffering? For what?> Those who "reasoned" their way out of religion deserve it because any religion is based on faith, not on reason. I am a Christian, God tells me to believe, and I do. No "reasoning" is going to change that. It is not my place to question God. Those who were "crushed" because God never said life was going to be easy. In the Old Testament the Isrealites whined at God, things were too hard, they didn't have enough food, he'd lead them into the wilderness to die, ect. ect. Did God say "oh, thats okay, I've been too hard on you" or did he instead kill almost all of them off and then let their children into the Promised Land?

More important than this: Even those who chose no religion, IN GENERAL <not everyone, I understand that>, have used "reasoning" to prove to themselves that their preconcieved notions are correct. How is that not "faith" of some kind?

Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Monday, November 6, 2000 01:00:37 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Reverend Attila comes up to the podium.

Due to the large expected voter turnout, there will be two election days. November 7 and November 8. We ask that Republicans and Libertarians and Independents and Green party members vote on Tuesday November 7, and for Democrats and Socialists to vote on Wednesday, November 8.

BTW, New Jersey is for sale. Jon Corzine has purchased his own Senate seat for several million dollars of his own money, proving that you can buy an election in New Jersey. With the right amount of money, you two can buy a statewide Office, but unlike New York you have to be a legitimate resident, so let's start funds so Gside and Daniel Johnson an purchase their own politcial offices in New Jersey :)
Reverend Attila - [revattila@catsrule.garfield.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Monday, November 6, 2000 11:30:07 AM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

Oh, for heaven's sake...it wasn't supposed to read anonymous under my last post. Thankfully, my posts have a header!

Adios again!
Niamhgold
Monday, November 6, 2000 09:57:43 AM
IP: 206.41.204.68

** Niamhgold crawls in to make what she hopes is a satisfactory post **

Urgh, got hit with the cold this weekend, right when I have three papers due this week and a mother of a project. Oh, well, at least this pretty much means I won't be sick when I go home for Thanksgiving, got it out of my system. As it was, having to stick to bed allowed me to get more work done than I _normally_ would have. Plus, I got to see SNL for the first time in weeks. Bush: "And it looks like the Great Lakes are on fire. Even _I_ know that's not good!" ;)

Gside: Thanks :D I've heard the saying about God playing chess, somewhere before, and I believe it. Well, maybe I don't believe particularly in God, but in a higher driving force. After all, if most things in the universe have a balancing counterpart, than Fate (or something) must exist to counteract entropy and chaos. As things are always headed toward disorder they must also be headed towards order...or maybe that's just my headcold talking.

Voting: Everybody here better do it! :D (Unless you're not citizens). Like Nader said yesterday on Meet the Press, "I don't care who you vote for as long as you get out there and do it!"

Winterwolf: Huggles! Send Shadowrider my regards! Oh, and got your e-mail; thanks for writing me back! I love reading your stuff, even if I can't sit down and do it for a few weeks :D Hope work continues to go well!

Firestorm: 16 hour days? ** Hands him a huge vial of nitroglycerin** Have at it, friend!

Hey, is Warpmind gonna be gone for the next few months? Aach, no! I'll miss you! Have fun with your vic...roomie; I've been tempted to use mine in the same ways... }:}

Green Baron: Hope your cold gets better. Good thing with the paycheck :D I get the same type of thing at school; get paid under the table and with salary, so no taxes _and_ I can always leave workstudy earlier. I get paid for twenty hours a week and normally get sent home early anyways.

Caliope: HOw was the anime convention? I want details! :D

Well, gang, it's back to work for me. Writing a review of the symphony last Friday (I've got four words for you--Mendelssohn, Mozart, and Copland!) and then it's on to my analytical essay "in the context of social art history." Bleah.

Adios! (And vote, vote, VOTE!)

Anonymous
Monday, November 6, 2000 09:55:28 AM
IP: 206.41.204.68

*Warpmind materializes, accompanied by technomusic and various yells about fragging and havoc.*
Woohoo, gang! I've found this quaint little netcaf�, no more than 3, maybe 4 clicks from where I live. My posting frequency will not be as disturbed as I feared after all. :)

Mary: Glad to see you enjoyed the Samhain festival. Me, I'd be delighted to attend such an event, but, well... me being in Norway and all kinda complicates *that* kind of thing... :( Oh, and I *know* how it is to be physically awkward and uncoordinated... I can't dance if I got paid for it either, and I have great problems when it comes to crafting things. (Strangely, though, I'm deadly on the keyboard...)

Lynati: Well, for help in using your machine - sure, I'll answer your questions. As for the purchase of it... no, I won't help you. Primarily because a) I'm not entirely up-to-date on hardware and b) I'm not sure of what you need. However, my advice to you is that you go to a store that specializes in computers and office machines, and ask for help there. Under any circumstances, DO NOT buy a computer at a store that keeps kitchen machines in the same section, or even in the same shop...

Entity: No, I figure I'm leaning more toward pro-life than pro-choice. I'm just not about to bullying people into the same belief...

Emambu: No worry, compadre. We already got our vic... roomie. ];)

Gside: *Chuckle* Oh, aye... Aye to all four comments. :)

Gunjack: *LOL* Well, to be honest... it's not my actual belief... it was something me and a bunch of buddies philosophized one late evening. LATE evening. Plus, there had been some beer circling the table. :) (Personally, I figure, if God doesn't bother me, I won't bother him, and vice versa. I'd rather go out in search of power, and the wisdom to wield it...)

Well, that's about it... Ciao, gang. I'm not so likely to have my internet access impeded for the next two months, after all. :)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, November 6, 2000 08:43:01 AM
IP: port8.msx14-ber.ppp.cybercity.no

Patrick> And don't forget. Religion should mind its own business and not stick it's nose into a Democratic nation ;)
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 6, 2000 08:17:01 AM
IP: 166.109.2.138

Since Sevarius Jr. mentioned having seen the "X-Men: Evolution" premiere on Saturday morning a couple of days ago, and considered it good, I thought that I'd give my own comments on it.

*SPOILERS FOLLOW *

I'm not too familiar with the X-Men (beyond some memories of the FOX cartoon from a few years back, and what I read in the Station 8 Comment Room about the movie earlier this year - in particular, the big debate between Airwalker and Entity), so I came to this one with not that much outside background. But I thought that it was, on the whole, quite good.

One particular thing that I liked about it was that it started off small: at this point, Xavier only has three pupils (Scott, Jean, and Nightcrawler - and the last of the three is specifically introduced as a new arrival within the context of the episode), which makes it easy for a newcomer to keep track of the cast. (Added on to this, Storm as an assistant, Wolverine showing up at the end as an old acquaintance of Xavier's, and that's it for the protagonists). On the antagonists' side, the focus is kept on only the two people crucial for the story: the little toad-like mutant (I'm not sure of his name, although I imagine that it was something like "Toad") who attempts to infiltrate Xavier's home on Mystique's orders, and Mystique herself as his superior. Magneto gets just briefly introduced at the end as *her* superior, and in a very effective manner as an appropriately menacing figure. (And we apparently get a brief look at Sabertooth - I assume that that's who the guy was who was secretly watching Wolverine at the store). Makes it easy for an "X-Men novice to keep track of things, in short.

I also felt that the story itself was well-told and quite atmospheric; it also did a good job of making the protagonists sympathetic. Since this is apparently set up as an "enfances", so to speak, it's clear enough that the general public don't know about the existence of mutants yet (apparently), although there's the question of how long before they do find out in this series; the prejudice motif (which I understand is a major one in "X-Men") is therefore only hinted at, as a potential presence, but it's still there. (Of course, it does appear that the main antagonists in this series will be the rival mutants under Mystique and Magneto's leadership).

The only part that I do question at present is the "super-hero uniform" element, since that doesn't really strike me as fitting the setting; Xavier's pupils are being portrayed here as simply young mutants being taught how to control their powers; they're not yet super-heroes out to save the world. So why the uniforms? The best that I can assume is that they're for the training room as special wear for it (admittedly, Scott/Cyclops's visor does make sense as something needed to control those blasts from his eyes). Of course, I imagine that much of it comes from "It's what the fans are expecting".

At any rate, apart from the uniform bit, it did strike me as a good premiere episode, and makes the series look quite promising.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 6, 2000 07:07:07 AM
IP: 216.87.46.88.dialup-stl.primary.net

Just because I'm a sucker for debates like this...

Subjectivity of viewpoints was being discussed in earnest last week... and this week the topic of choice seem to be religion - more specifically, who is going to hell and who is not. But don't the same problems of of subjectivity apply? How can one take the handbook of Judeo-Christian beliefs, the Bible, and apply the writings within its pages literally to other religions? The principle rule of proving a hypothesis is you can't use as evidence in your proof that which you are trying to prove. Ergo, is it sound logic to use quotes from the Bible to prove the truth or validity of the Bible's proclamations of who is hellbound and who will be saved? And in particular, is it logical to apply the Bible's standards to other religions which inherently follow different beliefs? IMO, doing so is clearly applying a subjective viewpoint. "Your god is not my god as described in this book here, therefore you are wrong and I am right; I am saved and you are damned for all eternity." That's essentially what it all boils down to.

And incidentally, THIS is the main reason I believe a democratic government has no business sticking it's nose into religion.
Patrick Toman
Monday, November 6, 2000 06:45:23 AM
IP: aca176d8.ipt.aol.com

*Valentine enters humming "Dust in the wind" and carrying an assault carbine*

My dad's been trying to hook me on his generation's music. To my vast suprise, there's actually some good stuff back there... ;) You can't go wrong with a melodic tune and lyrics that explore the impermanence of life.
On the lighter side of life, I finished the rough design for the rail carbine from "Bridge of Swords"... It's a good starting point, but I'm having trouble cleaning it up. :P

Also, I've decided on next year's Halloween costume... Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner! :D I just need a REALLY big BDU jacket... and a thompson of course...

Anyway, I'm feeling much better. Debate always has that effect on me. On to replies!

Entity<> You're kidding me! o_O I take no credit for that bit; it's what I've been taught since I started wondering about the specifics of God...
<<Sounds to me like you're really pro-choice. What you're saying there is the cry of most pro-choicers.>> And yet we ended up with PBA, which appears to run counter to those princples... Unless you invoke "Life of the mother", which seems to protect far more abortions than it should...
<<Do you _really_ think, even assuming that Gore is indeed morally void as a lot of people seem to think, that he would _practice_ such immorality?>> Short anwser: Yes. <<In light of Clinton?>> Especially in light of Clinton. Clinton proved that no one really gives a flying flip about ethics any more. The administration spent eight YEARS stumbling from one ethical lapse or mind-boggling fiasco to the next (Waco, the FBI files, too many funding questions to mention, too many Chinese questions to mention, too many Infidelity questions to mention, etc, etc). Lessons learned? Spin trumps all.
Either Gore is dirty, or he lacks anything even resembleing honor. There was too much muck of all kinds in the White House for someone as high up as he to miss it all, and his involvement in several of the incidents suggests the former option.
Besides, I dislike Gore and Lieberman for personal reasons. Between them, those two men hate everything about me and are against everything I stand for. If they're elected, I'm to put it bluntly, screwed.
*grins* ...I'll make a jolly fire, though... ;D
<<And even if he did, does America's youth look up to the President as a rolemodel? Last time I checked, the President isn't the setter of moral standards.>> Not anymore, that's for sure... But I'd hate to make the office any more of a laughingstock than it already is.
<<So, basically, they're either thinkers or crushed individuals. These folks deserve an eternity of suffering? For what?>> Ooo... Nice shot! :) I'd never thought of that angle...
<<Yet, look it up I did. I couldn't find anything pertaining to athiesm, though. Just Paul going on about Jews and Christians.>> I hope the below will clear things up...
<<Now, this is where I call on you, as a human being, to use your own judgment. I respect your belief in the Bible, but ask yourself: does Timmy next door whose parents never introduced him to religion deserve to go to Hell?>> To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure. If you want to be technical, the Bible clearly states we ALL deserve Hell. However, several passages scattered throughout the NT, along with my belief that God is just, lead me to believe that lack of knowledge will be taken into account during judgement.
A good starting point would be Romans 1:18-20; it asserts that God's existence and nature are clearly comprehendable simply by observing life and human nature. This statement is reinforced by the story of Cornelius in Acts 10. Here is a man who is described as "God-fearing", yet apparently knew nothing of Christianity.
Romans 2:12-16 draws a distinction between those who live under the law and those who do not, and then extends that distinction all the way up to judgement, with some interesting hints about their consiences defending them. This distinction can be traced back to Jesus' "Many blows/Few blows" statement in Luke 12:47-48.
Both of the above seem to come down on the side of mercy, but 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 (don'tcha love Roman names?) is a touch more ambiguous. It's fire-and-brimstone can be taken to refer only to open opponents of Christ, to both open opponents and the uninformed. The context seems to favor the former, but it's not conclusive.
In short, the Bible fails to give a straight awnser on the subject. In my opinion, the Author leaves the point vague intentionaly, as a straight awnser couldn't help but be missused. Take the question of the "Age of Accountability". What if the bible told us, straight out, that all children under the age of ten were still considered innocent? How long would it be before a crusade was launched to massacre all children under the limit, to prevent any of them from going to Hell?
In any case, I believe in a just God. My job is to worry about those I can reach, and to trust that God will deal fairly with the questionable cases.

Firestorm><<Nope. It ain't long enough to touch this topic.>> Aw, C'mon! :D Controversy is fun, as long as you stay logical and keep a grip on your tongue and temper... :)
<<Other than to say I am proud with everyone for not making this a violent conversation.>> It HAS been remarkably civil, hasn't it? :) A toast to Peace and Comments! <<Damn logic and reason! Thanks to them we can't have an irrational conversation in here!>> Don'tcha just hate it? ;D

Azreal><<While God did not initially create sorrow, neither does the Bible say that the first people were "happy.">> True, but assuming it was an ideal Creation, and considering that they had God for company, what else would they be? Bored? *shrugs* The assumption of happiness seems obvious to me.
<<can God make a baseball so big, not even He can throw it?>> Heh. I cracked this one to my own satisfaction a few days ago, and I've been looking for someone to inflict my theory on ever since. Thanks. ;D
As I see it, the question is poorly constructed. A more accurate version would be "Can a part of a Creation bind an external Creator?" The awnser is no.
If an author(Creator) writes a book(Creation), does he have absolute control(Omnipotence) over that book? Obviously. Can he create a part of that book that he cannot change? No. Does that mean that he lacks power over his creation? No. It merely means that no part of his creation can control *HIM*, as he stands outside it.
I'm rather proud of the above, and I'm hoping you guys can help me leak-proof it... :) Any leaks visable?

Warpmind><<Ever considered that because we know what suffering is here, we may be able to experience the joy with greater intensity at our next destination?>> I see your point, but for some reason it doesn't jive with my understanding of Christianity. Were it to be proved to me that suffering was an integral part of Creation, I'm fairly sure it would unravel my entire faith in God.
Any of you Athiests wanna take a shot at it? :)
Oh, and out of curiousity, WHERE ON EARTH did your view of God? It's one of the more... Interesting theories I've ever heard! Is it your actual belief, and if so, where'd it come from?

DPH><<If you think we have justice in America, email me and I will tell you why there is no true justice in America.>> Hit me!

Paul - Good to see you back! :D I was starting to think you were gone for good...I'll respond to your (VERY hefty) post tomorrow, as I've used up all my time tonight... :P

Jessie><<Yay, I love dressing up! I had sewed my Hester Prynne costume and embroidered an "A" and got it done just in the nick of time.>> *Valentine stares for a moment, then proceeds to laugh himself sick* ...He he he! Hester Prynne!?? Now THAT'S original! :D
<> Whoa, COOL! why haven't I heard of this? <<...a game based on the movie "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.">>> *Goggles, and them laughs himself under his desk* ...you've GOT to be kidding! :D

Wheeeeee.... That's it for tonight! Gotta work on BoS stuff, and figure out how to get "Pieces like us" running...

Peace, Love, Dope!

-Same old song
Just a drop of water in an endless sea...
All we do
Crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see...
-Moody Blues, "Dust in the Wind"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 6, 2000 03:12:09 AM
IP: pppa76-resaledallas3-1r7101.saturn.bbn.com

Neo Geo Roms are quite big. Though I did find a fighting game character that most matches my personality.

Warpmind> <>: Was it ever in question? Though such a ratio of weights does tend to indicate that all is right with the world.
<<I'm not saying you've got the 'rhoids>>: Right, I just thought it would amuse me more to misinterpret it like that.
<<mostly computer work, I believe - probably secretarial work>>: Well good luck with it. And may you not be swamped down.
<>: Well, it looks like they're redesigning the site (the front page was up for a little bit today).

Lynati> <<Which_ Archive?>>: The one that Guandalug is recoding. fanfic.gargoyles-fans.org
<>: If you want a PC, I vote you find a local shop to assemble it for you. They should give you a good price compared to Dell, Gateway, etc. You could probably get by with a 600MHz processor, 128MB RAM, DVD drive, and a soud card. But if you plan on getting some games (especially recent Quake derivatives), you'd probably want to at least double those numbers and get a good video card (probably with an nVidia chip). Plus, these numbers probably won't be valid in another three months.

Jessie Feff> Happy Birthday.

Emambu> <<But knowing this only seems to make me angrier at myself for even thinking that I have a right to gripe>>: And I need to keep reminding myself that life has been good to me.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gsidd@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Monday, November 6, 2000 03:11:04 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

*Emambu appears in the doorway but does not enter*

Not going to be posting for long (yet again), so I want to just say a few things.

Warpmind and Revel: This is an apology. I'm sorry if, for even a second, I gave you the impression that I was going to make it this year to the Gathering. My parents played their trump card (so to speak) and it worked: guilt. The four days for the Gathering fall right in the middle of the family vacation. I found that out this weekend. They can't change their dates because there's a medical convention going on at that time as well, and both my mom and my dad (being in medicine) are attending it. Normally, I wouldn't mind missing out. However, my mom didn't go last year becuase she was rescuing my grandmother from England after she broke her leg there. I felt bad that she missed the vacation last year, and so I'll feel bad if I skip it this year. Hopefully, you two were still searching for other roommates and not waiting for my decision. If you were, then I apologize for wasting your time like that.

Winterwolf: That's good news *Emambu bends down and scratches behind Winterwolf's ears*. Thanks for letting me know that it got there successfully. I'll compile another letter for Shadowrider when I get the time. Also, thanks for the e-mail. I don't think you knew it then, but that came at a perfect time.

Gside: Yeah, I can think of a few worse scenarios then the one I'm in. But knowing this only seems to make me angrier at myself for even thinking that I have a right to gripe. The truth is, I don't. It's a vicious cycle indeed.

*sees post* I've written more then I intended to. *sigh* Well, back to work, and I'm sorry if I was ranting.

---Emambu
Emambu - [emambu@commandchamber.net]
Philadelphia, PA, USA
Monday, November 6, 2000 12:31:02 AM
IP: dhcp81-237.pittsburgh.resnet.pitt.edu

Well, I'm back, after yet another lengthy battle with the cold/flu. It's the second time I've been sick in as many months. If anyone is looking for an excuse to anally rape Sli Sludge with a reciprocating saw, here's your opportunity.

As I was sick, though, I did get to see a lot of TV this past week. Some of it was good--the premiere of the new X-Men cartoon, "X-Men: Evolution"--and some of it very, very bad. I'm talking about the elections. Jesus, I'm counting the hours, minutes, and seconds till this thing is over. I mean, I want my guy to win, but I'll just be glad when this is all over with. It's driving me insane.

And speaking of politics.....

Bush....evil? DUH!!! Silly! That's why I call it the Evil Party! Because all of us Republicans are rich, insensitive assholes who are closet racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophoic bigots! I thought all you liberals knew that. Well, that's what we get told often enough, anyway.
Although, I actually sort of agree that ALL the candidates are evil, in their own special way. Realize that to get to the highest office in the land you have to do some pretty dirty, underhanded things. They're all evil. Bush is evil. Nader is evil (it's the lazy eye that gives him away). Buchanan is the most evil out of all of them.

Gore is evil too. But he's not on the same level of "evilness" as the Clintons, because remember--he's HIS OWN MAN. ;)

Movie update: Charlie's Angels was number one this weekend, with something like 40 million. That's insane. Evidently, a lot of people like this movie. I don't get it. Personally, I think any movie that lists Drew Barrymore as an action star is doing false advertisements.
And another new movie, "The Legend of Bagger Vance", was number 3 with about 12 million. I'm glad it didn't make more, because the only thing that I dislike more than watching golf is watching a *movie* about golf.

Buffy and the REAL Scooby Gang: Where are you Scooby Doo? Hopefully not in an erotic fan fiction, that's where.
The latest rumor coming through the Hollywood pipeline is that Sarah Michelle Gellar may be up for the role of Daphne in the upcoming "Scooby Doo" live action film. That's cool. I can go with that casting. Especially since one of my favorite young actresses, Christina Ricci, a young woman who can actually act, and unlike the female stars of virtually every WB show in existence, looks good AND acts well, might be up for the role as Velma. That's the good news. Ready for the scary news? You were warned. This is as scary as any monster Buffy has ever shown.
Freddie Prinze Jr., aka "Freddie the Movie Slayer", may play Fred. Dear God, help us.

Trek news: I thought this was interesting--among the networks in the running for the next Trek series is none other than NBC. Can you imagine that? NBC having Trek in its lineup? Maybe if NBC does get hold of the property, they'll sink some money into the makeup department. I'm sick of seeing 294 million different aliens species that look EXACTLY like humans, with the only discernible difference being a funky shaped nose.
And again, WHERE IS SKIPPY??? He should be reporting this. I miss my favorite Klingon.

Paul: I thank you for accepting my apology. You didn't have too, but I find it very gracious of you to do so. For a minute, I thought that perhaps you had been driven away from the CR, but I'm glad to see that you're sticking around.
Oh, and my referencing to the "threats"....well, it had been said (erroniously), that I was perhaps one of the ones threatening you, when I was not. I just wanted to make that clear. Unlike some people, I have no problem with you being in the CR.

***X-FILES REVIEW***
Coming into tonight's season premiere, I was prepared to be disappointed in the X-Files again, seeing as I've been less than enamored with the previous season. Plus I was giving up this week's episode of MTV's "Jackass" (perhaps the *greatest* new show of the season) to watch the premiere. But shock upon shock, I actually liked what I saw tonight.

There were a lot of interesting elements in the premiere. The first was Scully. This is really a new side of Scully that we haven't quite seen before. This time, she's the believer. She knows that there are forces at play around her, she's excepted this. And she's vulnerable, in more ways than one. First off, she's feeling the effects of carrying around the parasite inside of her.....oops, I mean baby.....experiencing morning sickness and fatigue. Next, she's an emotional and psychological wreck. Mulder's disappearance and her sudden pregnancy are really hitting her hard, as can be seen in her breakdown on the phone with her mother. She's really going through the wringer. Some fine acting on Anderson's part.

Next, the debut of Robert Patrick as Agent Dogget. I wanted to dislike his character, but...I find myself warming up to him, especially since I know he's going to be Scully's new partner. He's tough as nails, no nonsense kind of guy. I'm going to enjoy seeing how he reacts to Scully as soon as they become partners.

Plus lots of other interesting things in tonight's episode. I liked seeing Skinner again; I've always been a Skinner fan, and it's good to see he's sort of in the "inner circle" now. The scenes of Mulder being tortured (experimented on?) were pretty odd, and a bit "Hellraiseresque". It was good to see the writers actually give a nod to continuity and bring back that telepathic kid. Hopefully, we'll see some answers this season, and hopefully those answers will make sense.

Oh, and BTW--does anyone in here NOT believe that the Mulder we see at the end of the episode was really just a shapechanging alien?

Over all, a good episode, with solid acting all around. And I'm excited to see how things turn out next episode. If they keep this up, I may just have to tune in to reruns of Jackass from now on. ;)
****END REVIEW***
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Sunday, November 5, 2000 11:55:15 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

**Winterwolf makes a grand entrance**

Hi! I got some news from Shadowrider! Unfortunately he was unable to stop at home this weekend but sends his hellos to Erik, Dreamie, Krystal, Kit and Doug and to all his CR friends. He keeps each of us in his thoughts. In addition Emambu's letter arrived. You hear that Emambu your letter made it! :) Plus he hasn't forgotten Green Baron and will write to him tomorrow. So you can expect something on the way GB! Shadowrider is looking forward to upcoming events. It seems he has recently received his duty assignment. He says "I'm a 121L - a missile launching ramp operator! I'll work directly on the Hawk SAM system! Whoohooo! :)" Happy to see Shadowrider is looking forward to it! ^_^

Mary> If the bruises look like they are getting worse then you should probably get it checked out. It's probably not serious but it will at least make you feel better if someone can tell you that for certain.

Lynati> I'm sure many of us in here would be happy to help you make an informed choice for a new computer. The first step would be to figure out what you want to be able to do with the computer. Anyway ask away! Happy hunting!

Jessie> Happy Birthday! Just got that in barely on time! ^_^ The RPG maker sounds great! I can see it has your creative juices flowing!

This week promises to be a busy one so I'm off to bed early tonight. Buenos Noches!

**Winterwolf retires for the night**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Sunday, November 5, 2000 11:26:57 PM
IP: 1cust37.tnt44.nyc3.da.uu.net

Whew, its been forever since I've been able to post here. Part of the reason is 'cause my school decided to update there computer systems and whatnot, so for over a month it was, like, impossible to even get online. bleah. And then I had midterms and was kinda busy...hehehe. Hopefully I can get back into the swing of things now.

Well, like I was saying before in my quickie post, Halloween totally kicked! :D Yay, I love dressing up! I had sewed my Hester Prynne costume and embroidered an "A" and got it done just in the nick of time. Also carried around a little baby doll for Hester's daughter, Pearl. I was one of the few people who wore a costume to class on Tuesday, but the English dept. especially enjoyed my choice of costume. :P I might get extra credit, even. lol...how fun is that? See, kids, it pays to choose a literary character as your costume. And the midnight showing of Rocky was one of the best I've been too. :)

Oh, one thing that happened kinda a while ago when I had no internet access (but wanted to share) was that I was hired to do a few radio commercials. Wheeee! It was crazy to wake up to my radio alarm clock and hear _myself_ talking...on a station I don't even work for! I kid you not, it really happened, and was kinda confusing at first, as I was groggy in that just-woke-up kinda way.

hehehehe...today was my birthday, too, and my mom came up to visit me. She gave me a great big bookshelf. Good thing, too. I really needed it. I gotta say the coolest birthday present I have received, though, is RPG Maker for Playstation. Has anyone else seen this thing? It's incredible! It allows you to literally create your own RPG video games, even down to drawing the characters and monsters (and if you are not artistic, it has tons of pre-rendered graphics). I am in LOVE. lol...I am in the middle of making two games right now...a pretty "traditional" fantasy RPG, and (as a gift to the friend who gave me RPG Maker in the first place) a game based on the movie "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert." That should give you some of an idea how versitile this thing is. ;)

Hmmm...well, I'll have to try and catch up more with the room soon. See y'all later!
Jessie Feff - [feff@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 5, 2000 10:40:13 PM
IP: dialup7-30.mrs.umn.edu

Paul> I take it you didn't get the e-mail. Since I tried to send you an e-mail, then asked you if you'd recieved it, and since I post my e-mail address every time I post to the room, you might have gotten the message that I wanted you to answer by e-mail.

That is no longer the case. It is clear to me that there is nothing further to be gained in this conversation.

David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Sunday, November 5, 2000 10:34:46 PM
IP: 198.215.20.203

Just finished watching the season premiere of X-Files... And the show seems to be good again! Yay! WOnder how long it'll last...

Wish I had time to post at length, but I'm busy trying to get some TGS work done. I'm working on a story that just doesn't want to end! That might be a good thing...
Robby
Sunday, November 5, 2000 10:07:38 PM
IP: spider-wi084.proxy.aol.com

Quick note -- we're back from our so-called relaxing weekend and it wasn't ... trying to keep Becca occupied with no computer and only a fraction of her toys doesn't leave much room for relaxation; I think we spent most of our time playing with Crazy Bones. But it didn't snow on us and I didn't get stricken down with a bronchial disaster this year, so those are two pluses.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Sunday, November 5, 2000 09:14:55 PM
IP: 15-148.009.popsite.net

In reply to Lynati's comment...

Yes, there's a good chance of Disney at least taking notice of the fandom if we can make our goal of getting 500 people to attend the Gathering 2001. Whether that might evenutally mean new episodes or a chance for one of the other spinoff series to be developed, I can't really say... not even Greg can make that prediction. But the first step is making sure The Gathering 2001 is the biggest Gathering yet.

And I can't repeat this enough, though: WE CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT YOU, THE FANS! The Gathering of the Gargoyles needs your support. If you've already purchased your membership, thank you! If you haven't, there's no time like the present! Click on the link below or go to:

http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/
Patrick Toman
Sunday, November 5, 2000 09:11:24 PM
IP: ac85959f.ipt.aol.com

Fire Storm: <<<Damn logic and reason! Thanks to them we can't have an irrational conversation in here!>>>

LOL

Warpmind: <<<However, I'll be loath to stand on the barricades against abortion - while I personally find the idea distasteful, I acknowledge the need for the option.>>>

Sounds to me like you're really pro-choice. What you're saying there is the cry of most pro-choicers.

That's how I am in regards to conservatism. By belief, I am generally a liberal. But if we're talking me, personally, I'm pretty conservative. But just because I am doesn't mean others should be; I'm neither proud nor ashamed of being conservative, it's just the way I am. Probably due to the relatively sheltered childhood I've had. ;)

DPH: <<<If Gore was in charge, ethics would be thrown out of the window.>>>

Do you _really_ think, even assuming that Gore is indeed morally void as a lot of people seem to think, that he would _practice_ such immorality? In light of Clinton? And even if he did, does America's youth look up to the President as a rolemodel? Last time I checked, the President isn't the setter of moral standards.

<<<As far as someone from India who would not know better about a religion, read the first few chapters in the book of Romans. It deals with why the Christian god says there is no excuse for atheists.>>>

Well, a Hindu in India who doesn't know of Christianity wouldn't quite be classified as an athiest... Yet, look it up I did. I couldn't find anything pertaining to athiesm, though. Just Paul going on about Jews and Christians. Sounds like the whole 'do you need to be Jewish first?' controversy. Nothing on athiesm.

Incidentally, I've always been slightly irritated by the proclamation of worldly acceptance that says as long as you believe in "a" religion, or "a" God, it doesn't matter which, you should be able to get into heaven. People seem to state that and then sit back with benevolent grins, satisfied in their own openness. So those who are athiests or agnostics are Hell-bound. Why is anyone one of those two? It's either because they used their heads and reasoned their way out of religion, or they suffered some kind of loss that broke their faith. So, basically, they're either thinkers or crushed individuals. These folks deserve an eternity of suffering? For what?

*steps off his pedastool and calls it a night*
Entity
Sunday, November 5, 2000 08:09:31 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

To get this out of the way...
First of all, no, I haven't left yet. I had other things I wanted to do and hadn't even finished the PENDRAGON Episode yet, so I wanted to ensure I didn't accidentally see spoilers. Secondly, Gunjack, I got your Electronic Mail, but I'm not replying to it as you commented on stuff that already had passed before you Sent the Electronic Mail.
I didn't get your Electronic Mail, though, David G.
Azrael:
How is my lack of appreciation of Shakespeare offensive? Its an opinion of mine. Of what I've read (and I've now finished MACBETH and still think its shallow) I believe Shakespeare is shallow. I've only read two plays, though, but even if I had read more and said that he was shallow it wouldn't be offensive, it'd be an opinion.
I can use the names of people who aren't in this room, and when I say its 'the last time' I'm going to respond to something, I believe that might've been for each individual. Or at least referring to any 'extensive' commentary.
Mandi:
I tend to be rather harsh at times, or say things, that while not harsh, can be taken the wrong way. I know about that and I'm trying to avoid that this time around.
The 'for' in what you quoted should've been 'far', by the way.
Daniel Johnson:
I'm not attempting to flamebait anyone, and I'm trying not to create too bad an emotional impact. That doesn't mean I'll always succeed.
What does 'plonk' mean?
Time P.:
I most certainly *am not* geared up to prove that I'm so much better, or, for that matter, any much better than someone else.
And what I said wasn't immature, and certainly not immature b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t.
I'm not sure if this would be counted as 'continuing any hostilities' by anyone since I said the above in a calm form. I hope not, because its not intended to be.
The way I see it, if stuff like this can be discussed civilly, it can continue to be discussed.
Patrick Toman:

"On the subject of subjectivity > Just by the mere act of accepting "everything is subjective" to be a true statement, one has proven it false, for how can there be truth or falsehood if indeed everything is subjective?"

Once again, there is no absolute truth in this universe but that absolute truth is nonexistent.

"My subjective truth may be your subjective falsehood, and the only absolute for the universe is chaos."

The only absolute for the universe is that there is no absolute. Chaos itself is but an interpretation of situations. Lack of absolutes does not mean chaos, it simply means lack of absolutes... In my interpretation. To me, chaos can be riotous, intermingling noises, but it might not be to you.

"Similarly, if one begins to question the symbols used in communication (i.e., the words) themselves, it becomces impossible to formulate any type of discourse between individuals. Humans are symbol-using animals."

No, it doesn't.
Just because I know language is subjective doesn't mean I'm going to apply my own language and expect people to understand it without explaining it. Language, however, is subjective, as is everything. The only reason we don't have 'chaos' is because enough people agreed with or compromised among each others' subjective truths to bring us to the point we're at now.
That doesn't annul that all truths are subjective.

"Between any two individuals, there can be no communication on any meaningful level without a mutually shared agreement on the symbols that are to be used to express abstract ideas, concepts, and emotions. Language in any form (written, spoken, hand gestures, etc.) by its nature evolves based on arbitrary decisions about what symbol should be adapted to represent both the world that is observable with the tactile senses - such as temperature, colors, other living creatures - and the concepts which are constucts purely of the mind - such as love, hate, truth, falsehood."

People can use different symbols and/or languages... Provided they understand each others' symbols and/or languages.

"Language itself is the lowest common denominator of debate. I, speaking only English, cannot carry on a meaningful discussion of world politics with a person who speaks only Russian. And similarly, one cannot engage in argument when the meaning of the words within the language are themselves in question."

One can engage in an argument when the meaning of the words in a language and/or a language are themselves in question, depending on what you meant by the above statement. If you meant that if such things were subjective one couldn't engage in an argument, I don't believe that. People can still argue even knowing that their truths are all subjective.
If you mean different symbols and/or languages are used, then in order for an argument the differences must be understood.

"If I adapt that the symbol representing the color of the sky is the word "blue" and another person wants to say it is "banana", the two of us cannot communicate, and indeed it would be pointless to engage in any attempt."

Unless the differences are explained.

"Once either party of a debate has stuck a feather in their hat and called it macaroni, the debate is over, for the absolute last vestige of "common ground" - language itself - has been lost."

New common ground can be formed by explaining the differences between assorted viewpoints. Once each understand what those differences mean debates can still be conducted.
Sevarius Junior:
Thanks for the apology. :)
And you can talk about threating me/not threatening me. I was the one 'threatened/not threated' so as long as we don't cause anymore hostility I can say its okay to talk about that.
Azrael Again:
Which Post did I refer to before, I wonder. I'll have to check later. Maybe I ended up repeating myself at some point(s).
David G:

"Second, assuming you didn't get it, and for the benefit of everyone else involved in the discussion, my point about the differences between TRPG and CRPG really was just thta a TRPG has more story freedom. The part of my post following that statement was my opinion based on the point."

All of your Post was opinion. A Tabletop Role-Playing Game doesn't have the ability to, say, perform such a variety of fighting moves, jump, run, and/or whatever. Characters in Tabletop Role-Playing Games can't do this. I may think this gives Console Role-Playing Games more freedom, as this can't be done on Tabletop Role-Playing Games. Therefore, the 'more freedom' bit was also an interpretation.

"The first part is irrefutable. It's was a statement of fact."

The first part is refutable, as I just proved, and was a statement of opinion, as I also just proved.

"The rest was just opinion, and didn't particularly need to be refuted. Lots of people prefer CRPGs to TRPGs."

All of what you said was opinion.
Kyryn:
Shakespeare...
Thanks for the commentary on interest in Shakespeare's stories in Japan. However, I don't believe that even if there are similarities between it and XENOGEARS, that means anything was inspired from or taken off of any of Shakespeare's stuff. It just means similar ideas happened to show up.

"I enjoy many works from different sources, but I find that in each case a story must be judged within the context that it is presented."

I disagree, and I've explained why to others before. At the heart, stories are stories. If one person uses writing to create very good characterization but another fails using animation to create very good characterization the difference is in the skill of the author to create the story itself. Different mediums, different necessary skills, but both have equal potential to be just as good. If there's a flaw its in using the medium to present the story or presenting the story period, not the mediums themselves. Thus, the differences are stories versus stories.

"A live performance of Shakespeare, for example, is different from reading the work, or even different from reading it aloud. Thus a purely written transcription of Xenogears would be interpreted differently than the combined visual/textual presentation that occurs in the game format."

Your examples gave adaptations of the same stories in different media, not different stories in different media. If that's the case, then the adaptation in one media can be judged versus the adaptation in other media.

"That interpretation would also be colored by the format that the person who is doing the judging prefers. Some people are more visually action-oriented (i.e., TV, movies, CCGs, etc.), others are passively visually-oriented (i.e., reading), and still others are audibly-oriented (i.e., listening to tape or radio)."

I have no such preferences. I judge each story in relation to other stories, not media versus media.
And I'll forego the Link. I've got other things to do. Thanks anyway. :)
Johnathan Lang:
Either you are the same 'Jon the Mockingbird' I talk to via Electronic Mail, or happen to have rather similar names.
As for Mary Sefton... I watch out for stuff like 'no role in story other than love interest' with anyone. Mary has just enough characterization besides this for me not to crack down on her (too hard) there.

The 'RP' mention...
No big deal. I wouldn't have even noticed it if I hadn't seen it mentioned outside an RP and gone looking for it. I don't bother with looking at RPs.

Gunjack Valentine:

"Paul - To start with, I'm gonna try something a little different. Instead of replying to every statement you make, I'm going to try to reply to each idea once. That way,
maybe we can cut down on the "See Aboves" that we've both been throughing in profusion... :P It's mostly my fault, 'cause I hit the same ideas so many times last round... Oh, and sorry for the "Bull Puckey" bit. It was late, and I was tired and more than a touch loopy. :P"

No problem. :)

"I'm sorry to see that you've had ebnough of the "Absolute truth arguement, as I think I was just begginning to see your point. :P Oh well, maybe we can find a public forum
some time..."

Since you cut down on the size with only one response each I'll keep up the debate for a bit, at least... And yes, I would have anyway because of this regardless of whether you were beginning to see my point or not.

"Ah. From that context, I must agree that they are. My
apologies! :) I was refering to the freedom aspect, and I thought he was too..."

I've given further views on the 'freedom' bit to David G. Whatever aspects were being referred to, if I remember correctly, they were all opinions.

"How?"

Because you're still playing the role of one or more character(s).

"The only roles you can play and actions you can take in a CRPG are the roles and actions laid out by the designer. True spontiniety is impossible. With a tabletop game, I can play any role and do anything I want any way I want, assuming I don't bug the GM. There is a difference in the amount of freedom, though the value put on that freedom is subjective."

Even though Tabletop Role-Playing Games may give more of freedom in certain regards, Console Role-Playing Games can give more of freedom in other regards. In a Console type, for instance, you can perform a whole bunch of fighting moves that the characters don't have the complexity of maneuverability to perform in Tabletop types. Action figures may provide some things, but not as much as graphics or the like can perform. And/or can characters fire various colors of magical blasts, cause eruptions of energy from inside characters, and do various other things that can be done in Console types? No, that can't be done on Tabletop types.
Neither Console types nor Tabletop types are completely more or less free than each other in all ways, at least not yet.

"It is true that the value of the additional freedom of a
tabletop game is subjective, but the existence of the freedom is not."

The existence of the freedom *is* a matter of interpretation. One may not view being able to make a larger variety of choices any form of freedom, whereas he/she may view having the capability of movements in more ways as well as a larger variety of terrain more freedom.

"The freedom was what I meant to refer to as inarguable fact."

It isn't, as I just showed.

"I'm pretty sure the part about tabletop games having more opportunity to be personal is also objective. I've adapted my storyline to take advantage of my player's personality before, and it's a VERY interesting twist."

Its subjective because one may view being able to do things like certain lengths of jumps at their wish having more opportunity to be personal while having more maneuverability in storylines they may view as not having more opportunity to be personal.

"This is true, but you can get around it if you're an artist... :)"

To the size of three-dimensional places like the Tower of Babel in XENOGEARS? I'm not so sure if I believe that. How's someone going to reach inside to move around the characters, for instance, and still replicate the exact same place in all its complexity?

"I'm not sure about the immersive part... Oh, that's opinion. Right.

"*Thinks a bit*

"Hang on... We're really comparing apples and oranges, since we're comparing one game on one console to ALL the games Greg or I have ever DMed or played... That's not quite fair."

I'm comparing multiple Games, not just XENOGEARS. Want me to bring up BREATH OF FIRE III, FINAL FANTASY VIII, WILD ARMS 2nd IGNITION, CHRONO CROSS, and/or whatever?

"Really, let's just say that the CRPG has the advantage of a finely tuned storyline and actual visuals, and the tabletop games have the advantage in flexability and (infinite)
replay value. Can you agree with that statement?"

No. Console types have infinite replay value. You can replay the Game as many times as you want. Flexibility and finely tuned storylines can apply to both types, and as to which does so better is a subjective opinion. Visuals themselves aren't ahead, its what can be done with the visuals. Drawings for Tabletop types could do better than visuals for Console types, but Console types could perform better, possibly. What defines 'better' performance is also subjective, though.

"Well, the medium eliminates any speech or gesture languages such as AMESLAN, so they can only convey visual impressions... and even then, they are limited by the shape of the human body. Such severe constraints make it hard to tell a particular story."

Yet one may be able to tell a masterful story, better than a good written work, if one is skilled within this medium. Therefore, its story to story.

"True. Cheerfully retracted. :) (but I'll still be thinkin' it!) ;D"

Hrmph.

"I thought you meant the fanfics... :P Of COURSE I'm gonna check out the game! *Looks back at his previous post* Oops! That DOES look kind of stupid, doesn't it? :P Dern cut n'
paste..."

I see.

"True, but it's hard to say with certianty whether a similarity is due to imitation or just independent ideas."

I know.
And since its hard to tell, you can't accuse someone of imitation without proof.

"Since I don't know of any similarities in classical
Japanese art (Heck, I don't even know ANY Japanese art!), I can't say. Still, I doubt a work as modern as Xenogears can't divorce itself from something as widespread as Shakespeare..."

Not everyone reads 'popular' stories, so yes, a word as modern as XENOGEARS *can* divorce itself from something as widespread as Shakespeare. And who says that, even if there's an active interest in Shakespeare in Japan, its as active as United States interest in Shakespeare?

"Given the differences in style, I'd say you're probably right, at least in the previous centuries..."

I already know the answer to this now, so there's no point debating this one further.

"To reject logic, Truth, the stimuli of the senses, the laws of science, and even communication is to open the mind
so far that everything falls out. I don't think you're quite that far, but you HAVE either rejected or come close to rejecting all most of the above..."

Regardless of how much I've rejected, that doesn't mean everything falls out. There is no such thing as 'absolute truth', and one of your arguments was if there wasn't we would have chaos. Not accurate. There's no such thing as 'absolute truth' yet we don't have 'chaos' anyway, because enough people have agreed on and/or compromised on stuff to the point that 'chaos' has not yet come about.

"Paul - I know you said you were bored with this debate, but I wan't to try something. Rather than respond to your post line by line, I'm going to try to condense your points
and my objections into as basic a form as possible, thereby making replies less time-consuming and dull. If you still don't want to reply, well, more's the pity..."

Didn't you already say something along these lines above?

"1) The problem with this statement is that it lacks force on the personal level. There is no reason given why I should respect someone's subjective opinions, especially if I stand to gain by a lack of said respect."

Just because there is no 'objective reason' doesn't mean that there is no 'subjective reason'. I, for instance, have subjective reasons for respecting one's subjective opinions. You're entitled to not having them or having them as you wish. Not having said reasons isn't going to get you very far in life, though.
The right to keep oneself free from harm is just as 'valid' as the the 'right to shoot someone's limbs off, piece by piece, upon being offended'. Human emotions tend to gravitate toward the former, though, it seems, so practicing the latter might not be wise if you want to keep free from harm.
The whole 'right to keep others free from harm' I can't remember if I had a good explanation for at that time. If I didn't have anymore than you quoted, then I was going down the wrong path, and revised that path above just now.

"The Government can attempt to enforce respect of others by punishment, but to do so is hypocritical as they must violate MY subjective beliefs in the same way that I violated my victim's. Since all points of view involved are subjective, there is no logical reason to do so."

There's no 'objective' reason to do so. Society is based on subjective reasons. Some I agree with, some I don't agree with. The right of enforcing respect of others by punishment is indeed hypocritical in that fashion, but moreso in that they're delivering pain because they view pain shouldn't be delivered. I'm not an advocate of punishment for this reason. The fashion you mentioned being hypocritical I agree with, too, but also disagree with. Because in the fashion you mentioned you could be said to be defending your own subjective beliefs or someone else's by violating another's, and thus keeping your views free of violation. If that has to be done, so be it. If it can be avoided, keep clear of it, though.
Subjective beliefs may clash. You then have various choices, among them being: Let them be violated if there are intentions to do so, prevent them from being violated, prevent others' beliefs from being violated, and more. The latter two (before the 'and more', of course) can be done by a variety of ways. You choose which is most 'fair' and/or 'right' from your subjective views.

"A person still has the right of self-defense, but no one is obligated in any way to assist a person in need."

No one is obligated in anyway to assist a person in need objectively. If they feel subjectively obligated though, too, they may do so or they may ignore the subjective obligation.
And even 'right to self-defense' is a subjective view. Many agree with it, though, and violating the views of the people who do agree with it may wind you up having to face what you don't agree with, so approach such matters, if you're in opposition to them, carefully, is what I'd say.

"If the government tries to force *this* obligation, it falls into the "conflicting subjectives" trap mentioned above."

The 'hypocrite one', I'm presuming you mean.
If so, read above. That can apply to all subjective views.

"In addition, there is no reason why bystanders shouldn't "cash in" on crimes if they stand to gain from involvement."

No objective reason. Thankfully, enough people haven't shared this view to have brought us down the possible course that could lead to. Subjectively, they haven't wanted to, and that's one of the things that leads us to where we are today.

"I'm aware that you yourself do not suport crime, but I cannot see a logical way out of the above conclusions."

Everything's subjective. There's no logic.
We're where we are today because of agreements and compromises among some subjective viewpoints and rejection of other subjective viewpoints. That doesn't make them any less subjective. Thus there is no 'logical way' out of any conclusions, merely ones that are subjective that you yourself may choose to follow.
The course humanity has taken has been determined through subjective views. The law is a subjective view, science is a subjective view, everything humans think up is a subjective view. Choose from the subjective views which ones you wish to follow, which ones you're neutral on, and which ones you don't. *That* is how life is determined.

"In the interests of brevity, I decided not to respond to the rest of the logical arguements. I really do hope you can see your way clear to rebutting the one statement above...
And if not, I'll reply to the "10 Rules" responces tommorrow. See you then. :)"

I didn't respond for a week or so so I'm presuming you're waiting to comment. Thanks for the 'brevity' stuff, but if you're going to cut down on length could you please put everything together so I can just deal with all arguments at once?

Paul

"This is the me that exists in your mind, Shinji."-Asuka Langley Sohryu
NEON GENESIS EVANGELION:
THE WORLD ENDING
Paul Allen Nathans - [LacanPanother@worldnet.att.net]
Sunday, November 5, 2000 08:05:49 PM
IP: 107.morristown-06-07rs.nj.dial-access.att.net

GREEN BARON - Actually, it might interest you to know that there have been some people who believed that there never actually was a Gunpowder Plot, but that James I and his advisors falsely claimed that there was one in order to stir up public hatred against the Catholics (again to use the "Gargoyles" analogy, kind of like the Canmores claiming that the gargoyles blew up the clock tower). Fraser, however, felt that Guy Fawkes and Co. were indeed guilty, but that they made up only a small fraction of Roman Catholics in England, the bulk of whom did not approve of their plans for bringing about change.

(Incidentally, while Guy Fawkes has gotten most of the publicity among the conspirators in the Gunpowder Plot, he was actually a minor figure in it; he was just the guy who was looking after the barrels that the conspirators placed beneath the Houses of Parliament. The actual leader of the conspiracy was a fellow named Robert Catesby, who wound up getting almost completely forgotten. I rather wonder how Catesby would feel if he knew that Guy Fawkes was the one getting all the notoriety on the fifth of November).

ED - When I was a schoolboy in England back in the late 70's, I did attend one Bonfire Day celebration at school which had not only the fireworks but also a burning of the Guy (but it wasn't all that spectacular because it rained that evening).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, November 5, 2000 07:45:10 PM
IP: 216.87.46.31.dialup-stl.primary.net

*Lynati Enters*

When it was said that if the gathering had enough attendants, we would attract disney's attention enough for the show to get back on the air...on the air, as in "New Episodes?"
Incidentally, I just heard a radio bit for a TV movie that re-unites the Seavers, even though the show (growing pains?) went off the air eight or so years ago. If they can do it...

Gside: *Blinks* _Which_ Archive?
(to clarify, I am more worried about who would give me...problems...If I posted my stories at my own website, whenever I get one.)

Warpmind: Are you _sure_ you want to offer that? I'm not refered to as "lynati-The uninformed" for nothing; you might get overwhelmed by the very simplicity of the questions.
Hmmm...I need help deciding what type of computer (and what extras) to get...can you help with this? Or point me in the direction of someone here who can?

I'm out. See y'all later.
*Lynati exits*

Lynati
Sunday, November 5, 2000 07:05:49 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

*enters*

Hey all! I went to the Samhain Festival last night, and it was a lot of fun. ^_^ My dad had to accompany me 'cause ya know, go to a festival you hear about on the Net...Need to take some precautions since you don't know the people there. :P The people were really cool. In fact there was a young woman there (rather sexy I might add ;P) named Katherine. I was tempted to tell her about the comic book, 'Morning Glory the Faerie' (the pagan lady in it is named Katherine too!), but I didn't have the opportunity to since we started the ritual rather quickly and I had to leave a little while afterwards. The ritual was nice, except for the fact that I have a problem standing still for a really long time: I get a backache, stomachache, and feel sick after a while. We also did some chanting while walking through a 'labyrinth' in the backyard and chanted (the same thing for about a half hour over and over and over...oh well!). And we also did some toasting. A lot of us toasted to various gods, I toasted to family members with us in spirit (all of my grandparents died in 6 months when I was 13). When we toasted to the gods, some of us made funny toasting jokes like, "Isis, Isis, Ra, Ra, Ra! Isis, Isis, Ra, Ra, Ra!" (Isis being an Egyptian goddess and Ra being an Egyptian god) It was fun. :)
Crud...my foot looks awful! The one that I twisted is covered in bruises and they're getting worse! I can walk on it fine, I just can't rotate it in certain ways or put weight on it in certain positions. But I'm glad it got better enough in time for the Festival. :) I know the Fates wanted me to go to that Festival to get into the spirit of Samhain. :)
I just finished watching an episode of Xena and I got to thinking, "That Indian dancing looks like fun. I gotta try that some time!" My only problem is that if there's something I like and want to do, I want to be good at it. One problem with Asperger's Syndrome is that if you have it, you usually aren't very physically coordinated. I know this for a fact because I read it somewhere and I had experienced it in ballet. I had danced for three years and my skill never got any better. Oh, I was more flexible and much stronger, but I danced like an oversized eight-year-old. I just don't have that much control over how I move my body. That's part of the reason that I'm awquard(sp?) in how I move. Just another reason why I never did sports. :P The only thing I can do is running since it doesn't really need advanced coordination like say, soccer. I can't even kick that damn ball! >:/ Oh well, not like I care about _that_ anymore..;)

Talk to you guys later!

*GONE*
Mary Flanders
Sunday, November 5, 2000 06:41:44 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

Charlie's Angels the movie> **Warning spoilers** Good movie. Regardless of what others tell you, it isn't about the girls. Man those fight scenes rock especially the Tall Man. Bill Murray was a great Bosley. Of course Charlie Townsend is not seen Biggest Spoiler though is the the clients were the bad guys after all **End Spoilers**
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Sunday, November 5, 2000 05:30:51 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-130-120.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

Todd: Of course, although today is officially Bonfire Night, there have been fireworks displays going on both for the public and by individuals for at least a week, and they normally go on well into November. The only bit of tradition that I've never seen is the burning of an actual Guy (or a model of one). Which is kind of a shame, since that sounds fun. The history is interesting, although the only bit I wouldn't normally have known is about James' family tie to Duncan, but I think that was mentioned in a 'Pendragon' episode (might have been 'BEGINNING AGAIN' - one of Emrys' rants in Mons Carbi Comprehensive I'm fairly sure). I guess the blood tie is obvious in once sense, since they're both Scottish, but still - 600 years difference. I guess Scotland is far better at keeping invaders out.
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
London, England
Sunday, November 5, 2000 04:27:48 PM
IP: webinterceptorw04c.cache.pol.co.uk

DPH: "Missing: 1 Daniel Johnson"
I'm not missing, I'm just...misplaced. Yeah, that's it. :)

I'm around. Just busy. Or tired. Or sick, like now. :snif: Getting better though.

I do peek in here occasionally, but I haven't had the time to sit down and type something up. I am finding the religion discussion interesting and am quite pleased at its civility. I'm going to visit my mother now; I'll check back later.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@mac.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Sunday, November 5, 2000 03:30:34 PM
IP: adsl-138-89-67-172.nnj.adsl.bellatlantic.net

**RELIGIOUS HYPROCRISY**
No person in this room is on my list of religios hypocrites. Most of the people on my list are being taken care of in the RP.

As far as someone from India who would not know better about a religion, read the first few chapters in the book of Romans. It deals with why the Christian god says there is no excuse for atheists.
**END RELIGIOUS HYPOCRISY**

**POLITICS**
Gore and Bush are BOTH evil. As I understand, Republicans want to abolish OSHA and EPA, which I can not allow. If Ralph Nader was in charge, I am afraid the economy would self-destruct. If Gore was in charge, ethics would be thrown out of the window. Pat Buchanan is a racist at heart and is not looking at the big global picture. If the libertarians had their way, the EPA and OSHA would disappear. All I want is a candidate who believes in harming as few people as possible while maintaining justice. If you think we have justice in America, email me and I will tell you why there is no true justice in America.
**END POLITICS**

That's almost all for now, folks.

I plan on visiting the doctor this week.

Missing: 1 Daniel Johnson

**DPH opens a portal and steps into it.**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Sunday, November 5, 2000 02:28:35 PM
IP: max1-33.cwy.cei.net

Correction: "Please note..." instead of "Please not..." SORRY!
Lady Mystic - [lady-mystic@usa.net]
Sunday, November 5, 2000 12:52:49 PM
IP: pppa22-resaledetroit3-2r7229.saturn.bbn.com

*** CR UPDATE ***

The archive has been updated. Enjoy! :)
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2000/index.html

FS resent Gorebash our email asking for clarification and info concerning a few things. As we've been doing for the past few weeks, we're waiting for his reply.

*** / CR UPDATE ***

*** IMPORTANT WEBSITE INFO/UPDATES ***

Our websites will be going offline and eventually moving! Go to the URLs listed below for more info. Please join the mailing list of the site you are interested in if you want to be informed when it goes back online and where it will be located.

CBCD (CBCD Online)
>> http://www.visitus.net/jeremycbcd/
>> http://www.cbcd.com/

Mystic Storm
>> http://www.visitus.net/jeremycbcd/mysticstorm/
>> http://www.mysticstorm.com/

Fire Storm's Dimension -- (to be hosted by Mystic Storm)
>> http://www.visitus.net/jeremycbcd/fs/

Please not that while we do have domain names for 2 of our websites, we are unsure if those domains will be the websites' next available location. Join the mailing lists for the most sure method of getting information.

Thanks for your interest! :)

*** / IMPORTANT WEBSITE INFO/UPDATES ***

Fire Storm: **October 29th in the CR: LM wipes some pie off her face and summons the Mystic Storm to time jump to November 5th. Once there she coyly walks up to FS, licks some of the cream from her fingers and plants the remaining cream from her fingers squarely on his nose. Smiling demurely she puts her arms around him, drawing him closer. Their lips meet...**

Thanks for the birthday pie and wishes, hon! :)
Lady Mystic - [<!-- G2004 Motor City Bid !!!]
Dearborn, MI
Sunday, November 5, 2000 12:45:29 PM
IP: pppa22-resaledetroit3-2r7229.saturn.bbn.com

Gathering 2001 > One of the things that I think is very important is for the Gathering to be about "Gargoyles". I'd much rather the Gathering be a "Gargoyles" convention that just happens to have guest who are also know for "Trek" appearing than for it to become a "Star Trek" convention that just happens to have "Gargoyles" stuff, too. To borrow a phrase from Carl Sagan, there are billions and billions of "Trek" cons out there every year. There's only ONE Gathering of the Gargoyles. Of course, we want "Trek" fans to come to the Gathering... and no doubt they will. But we also hope some of them will be "Gargoyles" fans, too, by the time they go home. Recognizing Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis' voices from "ST: The Next Generation" was what got many people (including myself) started watching "Gargoyles"... and chances are that can still happen if enough "Trek" fans can be introduced to the show.

And now, for the benefit of anyone who might not have seen this before the room wipe...

** Begin Re-posting of Special Gathering Announcement **

The Fifth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles
The Gathering 2001: City of Angels
June 22-25, 2001 -- Los Angeles, CA

UPDATES!

The staff of The Gathering 2001 is pleased and excited to announce the addition of SIX NEW GUESTS. We're most excited because the list of new additions starts with the voice of Demona herself, MARINA SIRTIS! Also well known for her role as Counselor Deanna Troi in the "Star Trek: The Next Generation" television series and films, Ms. Sirtis joins the voice of Lexington, Thom Adcox-Hernandez, on the sure to be growing list of "Gargoyles" voice actors and actresses who will be in attendance at The Gathering 2001.

But wait, that's not all! We also have five new names joining our guest roster from the "Gargoyles" staff and production crew: Lisa Salamone, Jamie Thomason, Karen Peterson, Dave Schwartz, and Julie Morgavi. Many said it couldn't be done when we promised at least 20 guests - more than every previous Gathering combined - but our complete list is now up to 21! And even more are sure to be added in the future!

For the complete guest list and most recent info, visit:
http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/guests.htm

With such a terrific guest list and so many exciting events planned, it's a sure bet that The Gathering 2001 is going to be THE place to be for "Gargoyles" fans next June. Our goal is to have 500 people or more in attendance at what will be the BIGGEST and BEST Gathering yet, and only YOU can make it happen. If you have already registered and purchased your membership, we thank you! But if you haven't, please don't wait too much longer! The early-bird membership rate of $30.00 for adults ($15.00 for children ages 10 to 14) will only last until December 31, 2000! Don't lose out on what could be as much as a 50% discount! The rate goes up to $40.00 for adults ($20.00 for children) as of January 1, 2001, and the adult membership rate at the door will $60.00.

And while you're signing up for your membership, don't forget to reserve a place at the Gala Awards Banquet! Many of our special guests - including Marina Sirtis, Thom Adcox-Hernandez, and Greg Weisman - are scheduled to be in attendance at this special event, and we hope to see YOU there, as well. Tickets are only $60.00 per person and they are going fast! Seating is limited, so don't delay!

For more information about the convention, visit us on the web at:
http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/

Or contact us by e-mail at gathering2001@art-chicks.com

We hope to see YOU in Los Angeles next June!

Patrick Toman - [gathering2001@art-chicks.com]
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Sunday, November 5, 2000 10:57:32 AM
IP: ac8897e2.ipt.aol.com

*Warpmind enters, spine creaking, neck hurting and arms 150% longer than usual.*
Whew... packing most of my life into boxes for transport tomorrow... and I've not even packed down my 486 yet... Still, I doubt the computer will weigh as much as my collection of po... fanfics and internet wisdom. :| Add then a small box of books I bring along, including the Magelore books and my Callahans books, plus my Roleplaying material, and it adds up to quite a lot... Thank God we've got a car to transport it all in. :)

Revel: *Shrug* Presidential elections seem to me to really be a lost cause, anyway - everybody knows that no matter who you vote for, you vote for the Illuminati candidate. ];) (But I seem to recall someone suggesting that the candidates duke it out personally, no holds barred?)

Winterwolf: Hmmm... glad to know I'll be missed if I don't show up as much anymore. :) Fear not; under any circumstances, I doubt my reduced presence will be extended much beyond 2 months, anyway...

Gunjack Valentine: Ever considered that because we know what suffering is here, we may be able to experience the joy with greater intensity at our next destination? :) (And, if we go to the other place, we'll be able to experience that with greater intensity, too, since we experience joy in this life, too...)

Lynati: Point taken. Much the same where I just spent (pronounce like "wasted") the last 4 years of my life studying - that doesn't mean we *didn't* screw around with the computers, though. ];) When you get your own machine, feel free to e-mail me any questions you might have, and I'll try to answer them. :)

Thankee, Fire Storm. :)

Abortion stuff: I notice this being mentioned again, and I think I may have expressed my views poorly last time around... I am pro-life. However, I'll be loath to stand on the barricades against abortion - while I personally find the idea distasteful, I acknowledge the need for the option. There are, in fact, situations where I, as a layman, might even *recommend* abortion as the wiser course of action, though such situations are scarce. (I've been asked my opinion in such situations a few times before - each time suggesting to bear the child to full term, lest a harmful medical situation should come up.)

Gside: *Cough* No, amigo, I'm not saying you've got the 'rhoids. I *was* quoting a book, after all. :) As for my long distance diagnosing, well... I don't have the exact statistics, but I'd estimate somewhere in the 70%-80% range. But that is a rough estimate, and there are several instances where I haven't been able to verify the answer, one way or the other, so... Good liver idea - sounds like DC's in for it, then. ]:) As for what I'll be doing in my job - well, I haven't received the full job description yet. It'll be mostly computer work, I believe - probably secretarial work. Oh, and I noticed that Thin H Line thing... just my luck that the srver'd be down. :(

Well, that's about it. Later, amigos - this just might be my last post for a few days. Maybe another post later tonight...
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, November 5, 2000 09:42:51 AM
IP: mp-217-212-219.daxnet.no

::moment of silence and a few hail Marys for all those Catholics who were so persecuted that a few felt compelled to overthrow the British Government::
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Sunday, November 5, 2000 09:34:34 AM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

Today over in England is Guy Fawkes Day (also known as Bonfire Night), the traditional celebration of the foiling of the Gunpowder Plot in 1605 (although by now I imagine that most of the celebrators see its significance as more the fun of fireworks and bonfires than in serious historical commemmoration). However, the origins of this holiday have a certain significance to "Gargoyles".

For one thing, the original Gunpowder Plot is a good example of how the actions of a few disgruntled and bitter members of a persecuted minority can wind up making that entire minority look bad. The plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament and dispose of both King James I and the rest of the government was originated by a few English Catholic conspirators who wanted greater freedom to practice their religion (at that time, Roman Catholicism in England had a bad name, was officially frowned upon, and members of it had to hold their services in private), and thought that if they could get rid of the King and replace him with a puppet monarch who could be induced to be sympathetic to the Roman Catholic faith, it would solve their problems. When the plot was foiled, however, the King, his advisors, and the public feared that this had been the work of the general Roman Catholic community in England (and even masterminded by the Pope back in Rome), and consequently began persecuting English Catholics all the harsher, even though a lot of the persecuted had not taken part in the plot at all, were unaware of it when it was being carried out, and were shocked and appalled by its ruthless intent when they did learn of it. You can get the details about it in a very good book on the subject, "Faith and Treason" by Lady Antonia Fraser; after reading it, I found myself understanding even better how Demona's actions could help convince many humans that all gargoyles were evil, leading to disastrous consequences for Goliath and his clan. (In fact, one could note that Demona's "Operation Clean Slate" in "Hunter's Moon" does have a slight echo of the Gunpowder Plot in this sense, not to mention the fact that it also took place in autumn, when the Hunter's Moon appears in the real world).

The Gunpowder Plot has another element of interest to "Gargoyles" fans; Shakespeare wrote "Macbeth" not long after the foiling of the Plot, and many Shakespearean scholars believe that it contains echoes of the Gunpowder Plot (particularly in the Porter scene); it's particularly worth noting that the intended royal victim, King James I, was a descendant of Duncan and Canmore (and well aware of it).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, November 5, 2000 06:41:57 AM
IP: 216.87.46.89.dialup-stl.primary.net

This color makes us miss Mandi. :)

Firestorm: $ We're RPing in the Mall of America. Lego Land is the big four story entertainment complex that's made out of Legos they have there. Does it not have stairs? If that's the case, please forgive us. We've never been to the Mall and are only constructing it in the RP based on logic, rumors, and what we've seen on its website (click name). Feel free to correct us at any time if you've been there and know the reality of the place. Thanks! $

Top Something!
Doug and Kit
Sunday, November 5, 2000 02:06:49 AM
IP: pool-63.52.169.171.dlls.grid.net

Niamhgold> May you find your happy medium.

I once read something where life was compared to a game of chess where God makes all the moves and is the only one who knows the goals, but the devil is allowed to force small inaccuracies into the moves.

All right, made it to my first post. I'm getting there.

Wilek> <<the madness that is RL has precluded me from notifying you until now. Sorry>>: Not too much of a problem, though I did have to take them off and put them back up a little while ago. I think the main mp3 at the time was kicking it above the quota by itself, so I would have had to do that anyway.
<<Real post sometime before the rest of Hell freezes over>>: That will happen sooner than you'd think, if an engineer ever happens to be sent there.

Warpmind> <<may your hemorrhoids disappear without surgery>>: You mean I have hemorrhiods? Man. What is your success ratio for long distance diagnosing? Or was it just that one female?
<<that was the traditional dwarven greeting from Bored of the Rings>>: I really should read that. It's been sitting in the basement for the past twenty or so years. Oh well, I didn't actually read the original Tolkien until three summers or so ago, and we've got five or six versions of that (including a Red Book of Westernesse).

DPH> May you heal and your father understand.

Lynati> <<My stories are very music driven>>: For another writer who uses a lot of music, look at Norcumi in the archive. I personally say your worries are needless, and would like it if you would post your stories in the archives.

SOROW> May you heal quickly.

Patrick Toman> <<We're most excited because the list of new additions starts with the voice of Demona herself, MARINA SIRTIS>>: I've always thought it would be amusing to double book a Gathering and a Trek convention. I wonder if it would be more likely to attract some of the voice actors.

Azarah> <<My head had a run in with a Swiss army knife and some razor blades>>: Sounds interesting. Especially that knife. My personal hair theory is to have it all able to be done with office scissors.

Warpmind> <<Tosses the liver to whatever creature might want it, be it for nutrition or experimentation>>: I vote we toss it in a swimming pool of hydrogen peroxide. I believe one of the emzymes in liver breaks it down increadibly fast.
And good luck with the internet connection and work. Just what will ou be doing, if I may ask?

Green Baron> <<You should abandon Engineering and be a Business Major>>: Never. Engineering offers you more toys. And once we get our claws into you, we never let go. You become tainted for life.

Nice. My friday post. I'm getting there.

Warpmind> <<The Thin H Line? That sounds vile, perverted, sick, twisted, kinky>>: Check, check, check, check, check, and triple check. Too bad the server seems to be down at the moment. But I usually link to it through Big Panda (if you need any help with that search). But be warned, once you are exposed to it, you will be forever changed. Taht, and you will never want to hear Martha Stewaret say anything about vanilla extract ever again.

Lynati> <>: ...on acid.

Well I didn't make it before the wipe, nor did I make the top ten.

Fire Storm> <<Definately cheddar. The sharper the better>>: Heck yeah.
<<Blame Canada>>: Why not? It solves a lot of problems. And I don't know why, but Canada in general just seems funny.

Emambu> <<I'm still alive guys... still alive>>: It's gotta count for something. Nice seeing you in here though.

Would you believe that I've used a lot of expletives in this post? Really. An expletive (in linguistics) is just something that doesn't really mean anything, so that and it are occasionally expletives.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Sunday, November 5, 2000 12:03:53 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

In response to Gunjaks <sp? sorry, bad short term memmory> statements.

Oh, yeah, I'm really tired, too. This may not come out the exact way I mean for it to.

While God did not initially create sorrow, neither does the Bible say that the first people were "happy." Obviously they thought something could improve their lot, or they wouldn't have fallen to temptation. As far as joy in heaven, I won't argue God's ability to do what we consider imposible <can God make a baseball so big, not even He can throw it?>, so I don't really know the answer to that one. I do know, however, that as with any part of life, with no frame of referrance we don't understand it. A child thinks playing with the glowing red thing Mom is cooking on would be real fun, until it hurts him. Even then, if he shows Masocistic tendancies, he thinks its fun. To me, not being invited to a "party" is no big deal, where as my favorite book going missing is increadibly anoying. I came to these realizations by these things happening to me, and realizing which one mattered to me. Same thing with joy. Everything is subjective, and therefore can only exist if there is something with which to contrast it.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Saturday, November 4, 2000 11:39:01 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

I'm still alive guys... still alive. :)
10th!

---Emambu
Emambu
Saturday, November 4, 2000 11:37:17 PM
IP: dhcp81-237.pittsburgh.resnet.pitt.edu

***WARNING! BIRTHDAY RP-ISH THINGY!***

<FS,Hunter Fire Storm and Bubba stroll into the CR>
"Now, with this temoporal displacement device on the barrel of your gun, every thing you shoot out of it will be accelerated to a speed that will allow it to go back in time."
<HFS leans over to Bubba and whispers>
"What did he say?"
<Bubba makes some gestures>
"Oh. K'" <HFS turns to FS> "Who and When?" <HFS says as he pulls out his 125" cannon>
"Both Warpmind and Lady Mystic were Sunday, October 29 2000. Warpmind gets a variable creame pie and..."
"Lady Mystic gets a strawberry creame pie." <HFS shoulders the cannon and Bubba sets the jump cordinents>
<FS smiles>
"Happy birthday Warpmind and LM!"

***END BIRTHDAY RP-ISH THINGY!***

Warpmind: Better late than never!

WORK SUCKS! Friday I worked 16 hours!
I am SO glad that another company is interested in me! 1000 miles a week and 60 hour weeks are gonna get REAL old REAL soon!

Robby: <and the universe blowing up... Only for everything to be reset the next day...>
Been there... done that. :)

Religion/Abortion/God/(Insert volitle topic here): <Fire Storm pulls a 100 foot pole out of his coat, looks at it, then put's it back in his coat>
Nope. It ain't long enough to touch this topic. Other than to say I am proud with everyone for not making this a violent conversation.

Ok... except this:
Sing with me, just for today
Never tomorrow, for the good lord will take you away!

OK... and this... BUT THAT's IT!
I am personaly opposed to abortion and I would SO object to LM or my sisters having one, but if they REALLY, DSPERATELY wanted one, I think they should be allowed to do so. If they can live the the consiquences, I think it should be allowed, but NOT as a primary form of birth control.
"I may not agree with a word you say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it"

Christine: Thank the matrix! You are staying!

Gside: <What is the best kind of cheese to go with keilbasa? I normally default to cheddar>
Definately cheddar. The sharper the better. BUT swiss is pretty good on it too.
<That or Canada>
Blame Canada!

RP: "Stairs of Lego-Land"?
WTF?

Greg: 
Yes! He made me drive around the entire city to get home! He is a BAD man!
(He was in town, and the resulting traffic jam was so bad that I had to drive around the area (10 miles out of my way) to get home.)

Entity: <Talk about ferocious air-tight reasoning.>
Damn logic and reason! Thanks to them we can't have an irrational conversation in here!
Fire Storm - [<--- UPDATE FOR WEBSITE INFO!]
Saturday, November 4, 2000 10:50:37 PM
IP: pppa60-resaledetroit2-1r7227.saturn.bbn.com

Greg: <<>>

Yeah! No offense to everyone, but I was beginning to think I was the only liberal in here. :)

Gunjack Valentine> I really enjoyed reading your post. You had a lot of cool points. As to those that I have something to respond with:

<<<The result is that he CAN NOT allow sin to go unpunished without violating his own nature.>>>

I never, ever thought of it like this. I'll tell you, if they just put it this way in our twelve years of Religion class, I'm sure there'd be a lot less disgruntled Catholic students giving their Religion teachers cold sweats.

<<>>

Now, this is where I call on you, as a human being, to use your own judgment. I respect your belief in the Bible, but ask yourself: does Timmy next door whose parents never introduced him to religion deserve to go to Hell? Or how about Timmy's non-union, Asain equivalent (bit of a Simpsons joke thrown in there) who was raised under Hinduism and that's all he's known?

<<<If all beliefs that claim to be true are, then truth is a subjective fiction.>>>

This is the truest statement made so far. And at the risk of turning some folks off to me, do you know how I reconcile it? They're ALL wrong. They're fakes, the lot of them.

I just love how the current Catholic church is trying to say that other religions are to be respected too. But how can they accept other religious beliefs, without devalidating their own? The NATURE of religion is to be exclusive.

I'm not gonna touch Gunjack's responses to Greg. Talk about ferocious air-tight reasoning. ;)
Entity
Saturday, November 4, 2000 10:16:45 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

8th? woohoo!

Gunjack Valentine
Saturday, November 4, 2000 10:08:29 PM
IP: pppa4-resaledallas5-4r7103.saturn.bbn.com

Whoops! Typo! That's Seventh! :)
This one doesn't count! ;)
Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Saturday, November 4, 2000 10:01:27 PM
IP: 206.15.120.117

Top ten! Seveth! Woo Hoo! ^_^
Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:59:32 PM
IP: 206.15.120.117

Top Ten!

(And yes, I am still alive!)
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:54:34 PM
IP: pppa60-resaledetroit2-1r7227.saturn.bbn.com

Top Ten!!!
Peter - [hybridone@ignmail.com]
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:52:17 PM
IP: dial-146.ocis.net

Oops... :}
Me again
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:50:12 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

Which would make me #4, I guess ...
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michgian
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:49:52 PM
IP: 216.28.101.92

Top Ten!
XenaTrek
Orlando, Florida
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:49:21 PM
IP: 216.28.101.92

Top 10?
Wilek
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:48:50 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

Top 10?
Wilek
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:47:44 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

TOP 10, MAYBE #1
DPH
Saturday, November 4, 2000 09:46:23 PM
IP: max1-11.cwy.cei.net