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YES I am still alive! Just been really busy, will post later when I get the chance.

Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 18, 2000 11:53:28 PM
IP: 211.216.216.91

Hello there lads and lassies.
Just your good ol' buddy Brooklyn stopping by! I have had a few complications in my RL and now it seems I have time to talk! Wheeeee! So without further a do, replies!

<Winterwolf>
Hey haven't seen ya in a while man! Still working on the FOX website? I hope we get time to talk soon! Anywho did you read part 2? If so let me know what you think.
<Emambu>
Your silence was fine. If your ready for part two then okie dokie! You get it tonight! Let me know what you think!
<DPH>
Winterwolf has told me you would like to have some dialog with Uriel. Will we talk before or after they blow up your house?

That's about it friends! See ya!
*Brooklyn unfurls his crimson wings and glides off into the starry night sky*
Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 18, 2000 11:41:17 PM
IP: 216.117.75.57

Just wanted to pass on some new election news... click my name to read of the latest developments. >:)

I also just got a new computer. Time to retire this 133 MHz original Pentium... my next post will hopefully be from the keyboard of the new 900 MHz Compaq I will be unpacking in the morning. :)
Patrick Toman - [<-- election worries over, click here for details]
Saturday, November 18, 2000 10:40:24 PM
IP: ac83abc1.ipt.aol.com

Gunjack Valentine:
Please copy your reponse to me and Patrick Toman's (which is above or below yours) and please Send them to me via Electronic Mail so I don't lose them in a Comment Room wipe. I'm not really inspired to reply to them right now, but I will sometime, so I'd like to not lose them, please.
PENDRAGON Season Finales and the few other replies I know of I need to give will be coming soon (maybe tomorrow).

Paul

"Time... It will not wait..."-Ultimecia
FINAL FANTASY VIII
Paul Allen Nathans - [LacanPanother@worldnet.att.net]
Saturday, November 18, 2000 10:08:57 PM
IP: 25.newark-36-37rs.nj.dial-access.att.net

**enters shivering**

I dunno ... I guess November finally decided to land on Michigan, 'cause it's been getting colder every day ... not much warmer in my house, though, so I'm thoroughly screwed. :(

I've other reasons I feel cold, but I'd rather not discuss those right now.

Religion: No comment.

Homosexuality: Ditto.

"Like Water for Chocolate": One of my favorite movies, one of the few on that list in Spanish (in fact the only one). One thing that disturbs me, though ... there is in existence an English-dubbed version of the movie. But the movie was frickin' *bilingual!!* What, do they have all the Americans speaking Esperanto or something stupid like that to mark where the languages change or what? I'm just really curious about that.

(BTW ... tried the onion trick once myself. Really does work. :)

Spacebabie: Tired of this eleciton hooey? Go to http://www.colonize.com/warp/ for some real mean-spirited fun. :)

Lady Corax: Believe me ... there's worse. You could be subjcted to what I'll be subjected to in another couple of weeks ... 14 different arrangements of "Sleigh Ride," 13 of which are bad, one of those bad ones being a reeeeeeeeally hammy Dolly Parton version that makes me wanna hurl every time I hear it. :P

But come to think of it ... that combo *is* pretty bad. :)

**waves to XenaTrek before zipping out to find warmth ... somewhere ...**
Coyote the Bando - [gathering_motor_city_2004@hotmail.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, November 18, 2000 09:53:03 PM
IP: 216.28.101.70

Emambu > sorry to hear that; hope to see something for the March issue, then!

Aaron > tsk, better hurry, hon, because the third book's coming out in June! ; )

Off to the airport tomorrow, so when next you see me, I'll probably be posting from Mom's account! Byeeeee ....

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Saturday, November 18, 2000 09:27:18 PM
IP: 14-071.009.popsite.net

Emambu>> thanx for the 'grats.

[humming along with the new Beatles CD]

Sexuality debate>> I'm gonna stay objective and not say a word. Unless I'm asked really really nicely.

Happiness!
Daphne, apprentice-wordsmith
Saturday, November 18, 2000 08:39:26 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.199.181.philadelphia1.level3.net

**Lady Corax enters the room, her hands over her ears in agony.**

GAAAA!!! I just had to escape! The people downstairs are blasting that new Britney Spears song *and* N'Sync's "It's Gonna Be Me" AT THE SAME TIME. That's really annoying after the *third* time of hearing it. No offense to any Spears or 'Sync fans. :)

Kyryn> Hope your weekend gets better!

Robby> I agree with you on the Pokemon characters' ages! :)

Aaron> Hi! I used to be a *really* big NBA fan, but now I guess I've gone down to just a fan, since my new thrill is NCAA basketball. My fav NBA team is the Phoenix Suns, though. :) And yeah, I think we *have* had this conversation before...I was once in this room under a different name a while ago. Glad to hear from ya! :)

Well, can't wait for the new TGS season...with all the talk about it, I'm getting more and more anxious! :) Again, to all the writers and staff of TGS, you all do awesome work. Thank you!
Lady Corax
Saturday, November 18, 2000 08:27:49 PM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

Homosexuality debate - actually, I think I answered the question of where I stand by where I am religiously.

religion/evolution debate - This is so so light. NOT!

1+1=3

Winterwolf has a cold? Wait a minute, Winterwolf likes cold temperatures, I thought.

Emambu - There is one thing you forgot: You needed to do a rendition of 'This is a long post afterall' (parody of 'It is a Small World').

Happy birthday to anyone who had a birthday (including lurkers). I would say that the product of the digits of the month and day of my birth equals the sum of the digits of the month and day of my birth. That only leaves quite a few possible dates scattered throughout the year.

**DPH just checked TO figure out the absolute latest date he can be hired and still have to get his one week vacation applied to G2K.**

bye.




DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Saturday, November 18, 2000 07:57:34 PM
IP: max1-65.cwy.cei.net

*Emambu strolls in, and notes the amount of dust that his favorite chair has accumulated. After a thorough cleaning, Emambu stretches once before relaxing into it*

So, let's see.... it's been close to three weeks since I last gave a full-length post. I can tell you, it sure was tedious re-reading all the posts. Some of you people can get as long-winded as I am when debating. :)

**********WARNING! ANNOYINGLY LONG STORY ABOUT WHAT I'VE BEEN UP TO THESE PAST FEW WEEKS**********

Yep, it's annoyingly long, so don't say I didn't warn you. :) Anyway, the last time I really got to talk to any of you was just before the holiday weekend in October. Anyone who's a native of the Pittsburgh area might remember that that weekend was "Discover Weekend." We had a lot of alumni return for festivities, concert shows, etc. We wanted to give them a good show, but the main reason was because we wanted them to give money, lots and lots of money. In fact, out goal is to raise about half a billion dollars. That Saturday, we held a concert in the Carnegie Music Hall. Our choir got to open the ceremonies with a song about the Golden Days of the university, and we got to close it with the Alma Mater. I had a lot of fun meeting some of the alumni including Pat Croce (president of the 76ers) and Mike Ditka. Of course, it's not like I spent a lot of time with them (they both shook my hand and congratulated me) but it was still fun.

While I'm still on the topic of singing, our choir has been kept very busy. We've had three gigs in the past week alone. Fortunately, it was a good kind of busy. We sang for retired veterans of the Vietnam War on Wednesday and yesterday we were on Fifth Ave for light-up night. I also managed to land a trio part in a version of Ave Maria that we're doing. It's going to be a little tough since they gave me the tenor two line when I'm really a baritone, but hopefully I'll be ready for our big concert in December.

I've also been pretty busy with school work too, which is another reason why I haven't been around much. This is one area I hate feeling the need to gripe about. I mean, I know I'm in college to work. Therefore, I should not be annoyed when I'm given work to do. *shrugs* oh well. I think the main reason I was annoyed was because I spent a lot of time studying for an Economics test and I don't think I did well on it (even though I haven't gotten it back yet after over a week of waiting).

One bit of good news though, and Caliope might appreciate this: I got back my Spanish placement exam a few days ago and I get to skip two more levels. Combine this with the two levels that I miss because I had more then three years of Spanish in high school, and I may be in good shape to take this as a minor.
**********END ANNOYINGLY LONG POST ABOUT PERSONAL EVENTS THAT NO ONE GIVES A HOOT ABOUT*********

Yeah, on to something more relevant: personal replies...

Gside: Exactly. I've been busy but I know that I should be busy. All in all, I've been having a great time. As for an answer to your question: I'm not really sure. For starters, is homonecropyrobestialiacophobia supposedly a fear of homosexuals making love to a dead animal (of the same sex) or a person making love to a dead animal that was homosexual? Either way... I guess anything is possible. Kind of a sick thought IMHO. Lastly, what's this worm song on your web page. I thought it was pretty cool, but I seem to be in the dark about the significance of it (it's seems apparent that others understand it which only makes me feel stupider). Also, what's the chorus in the background saying? I can kind of make out a few phrases but not all of it. I liked that anniversery song too. Not much in the way of lyrics, but it had a groovy bass. :)

Gunjack Valentine: I'm glad to hear your brother's ok. That sounds like something my brother would do. He will give a time telling us when he'd be home, and then not show up (leaving to me to spend to the night worrying about him). Of course, he would always the next day and let us know that he was fine and that he would be "late." Everytime he does that I don't know whether to hug him or kill him. :) *sees all the posts he's made about debate topics* Wow... it sounds like you and Entity could use a break. Let me know when you finish your current editing project for HL. I'll want to try it out.

Warpmind: That's good to hear. Should I ask who the doomed soul is? :) *reads on* Yipes! Glad to hear you gave that guy a good thrashing. I see that berserk Norwegian blood flowing through your veins didn't let you down. :) BTW, I don't it's fair to place the blame on us for drooling over naughy Gargoyle pics. I mean, is it my fault that Mrs. Hayden gave Sata a nice rack? :) (j/k BTW)

Aaron: Good to hear from you. If you're going to G2001, are you going to show Mariana Sirtis your tatoo? ;)

Niamhgold: Hope you have a happy Thanksgiving. I'm looking foward to some good, Italian cooking myself when I get home. :) Glad to hear the party went well. I guess Reuben, being a typical male, will enjoy his ...uh... toys. :)

Guandalug la'Fay: The only suggestion I think of, and I hope I'm not too late to say something, would be to make quick links at the top of the page so you can specify which section of the authors (hopefully still alphabetized) the user wants to go to. For example: you'd have an A-C, D-F, G-I, etc.

Wilek: I know this from a while ago but... let me explain. I like movies that are realistic. One alien was able able to take out practically an entire ship by itself. In Aliens, it managed to handle a squad of trained marines (and these were no pushovers by human standards). Therefore, an entire ship overrun by xenomorphs and lead by a Queen should have had no trouble dealing with the people on the ship. Also, I'd sell DC as a main course. I'm sure he'd be perfect with fava beans and a nice Chianti. :) Plus you could arrange the plate in the manner of which DC was killed. Tasty AND artistic.

*reads post by wilek under his Baron Administrator* Ok... you sunk Britain. Hey, wait a minute, half of the regular visitors on my website are from England! It's popularity has now been cut in half. Damn you! Damn you all to hell! ;)

Representative of the Crown: *sees #6* What? With the Eagles in a position to reach the playoffs for the first time in 4 years? I don't think so. *growls menancingly before realizing that England was already destroyed*

Brooklyn: Good to hear from you, man. I hope you didn't take my silence as me not caring about your story. I've just been terribly, terribly busy. I do want to read part 2 when it comes out though. You had a great setup in the first part.

Jessie: Happy belated birthday. Hopefully, you're not still losing sleep over who wins this election. :)

Courtney: Welcome to the CR!

Daphne: Congratulations on the high SAT II scores! I hope you get your first choice.

Bronx: Ouch, that's rough! How is everything going on now? We do worry, so let us know.

Winterwolf: I'm sorry to hear about your cold. I hope you're feeling better. Thanks for the second e-mail. I don't know if you got my reply (my server was acting screwy that day) but I did appreciate it. I don't think I'll be able to send you the Mp3. Most general servers like Excite, hotmail, and Yahoo cannot handle file sizes that big. However, mine can take the load. That would explain why I got it and you, Niamhgold, and Kit and Doug didn't. *shrugs* maybe I can make a bargain with the webmaster on my site to put it up for a few days.

Shadowrider: Great to hear from you again! Pitt (in its wonderful wisdom) held on to my letter for a few days because it's international. However, it should go out this weekend. Also, don't bother sending the Mp3 again to the ones who didn't get it. Their e-mail servers cannot handle the size of the file. I know the maximum for Hotmail is 1mg. I don't know what the maximum for Excite and Yahoo are but apparently they're not big enough.

Archwolf: Good to hear from you again. Just out of curiosity, were you on Fifth Ave at some point Friday night? I doubt it but I thought I'd ask. Which fraternity are you pledging to BTW? Also, I'm sorry to hear that your fencing team is disbanding. Hopefully, you'll be able to salvage something out of it.

Mecord: Good to hear from you too. Hmm... sounds like your trying to stay on top of a lot of things. Best of luck to you, and to your relationship.

Cat: Welcome to the CR! Mecord dragged you in here, hunh? :) Well, I hope you like it here regardless. By the way, the room contains more then elves, wolves, demons, and banshees. Behold! An average small human stands before you. :) However, I have been known to turn into a Mantrin when I get angry but I've never had to use it yet. :) Anyway, good to have you here.

*Emambu tries to grab hold of the bouncing Dreamie but sighs and gives up. He then shouts after her* So how are you doing? Any new developments in life?

Cherry Blosom: Good to hear from you. Stay sane! That's an order :)

Fire Storm: Hey, be careful with those robots. I'm human too you know. *reads further down* Wow, how cool would that be if a spin-off series came back on the air? Since I've been out of the loop I must ask: Has they're been any recent developments or is what he's working on still secret? *reads further* Funniest catfight was when Raquelle(sp?) Welch fought Elaine on Seinfeld. :)

SOROW: Good luck with your college applications. *shudder* Now there are some memories I wish I could forget

Mary: I'll try to post comments on your ranma series when I have some time tomorrow. So far I've enjoyed the first three parts.

Caliope: *hugs* Hey, great to have you back! I'm glad to hear you had fun in our nation's capital. *Super Girl* LOL! I think it's that boundless energy you seem to possess. Able to leap tall buildings after a single latte! :)

SJ: Too bad about the show. I was really looking foward to the quality, educational aspects that it could have offered (like finding the amplitude of the big-bosomed babes when they bounce). ;) Happy belated birthday too

AingealKelly: Welcome to the CR! Hmmm... so you bite, hunh? Well, at least get to know us a little better before you decide who to bite. :)

Kitainia: Glad to hear that your life is back under control. Like I mentioned arelier in this post, my life just freed up considerably so I'm enjoying the time off. Glad to hear that you haven't received anymore hassle from Gus or his girlfriend.

Lain: ROTFL!! That was some nice, clean cut, religious humor. The Catholcism is all too true. :)

Christine: *sigh* I have't done any work on my story in almost three weeks. Guess I won't make that deadline for Avalon Mists. Maybe I'll get the next issue.

AotN: Good to hear from you!

Angelique: Welcome to the CR!

Doug: Glad to hear things are getting better with your job and your educational. Hopefully, the other slackers will follow Steve's example and shape up too. Also, I haven't forgotten you as far as my story is concerned. Fortunately, I'm not doing a dozen revisions which is my usual trait. However, I haven't worked on it in a few weeks just because I've been so busy. I hope you understand, and I'll talk to you later. I'm way overdue for an Ask Doug anayway. :)

Nicole Niemczyk: Welcome to the CR! I suggest finding a website and upload your art. After that, make sure to let us know so we can all praise it. :)

Coyote: Glad to know you're still alive. :)

religious debate: Not gonna touch that.

political debate: *see above post*

Sexual debate: Well, a while ago I made my stance on where I am as far as homosexuality is concerned. So, I don't think I need to touch that either.
Boy... Debating is fun! :)

I hope that's everyone. Wow... that was a long post. :) Oh well, that's what happens when you're gone for a few weeks. Happy Thanksgiving everyone who's celebrating it. And even if you're not, then I wish you a happy and healthy week. *grin* I think that covers it. Take care,


---Emambu
Emambu - [emambu@commandchamber.net]
Philaedelphia, PA, USA
Saturday, November 18, 2000 07:28:40 PM
IP: dhcp81-237.pittsburgh.resnet.pitt.edu

Aaron wanders in, Chibi-Death and -Pestilence perched on his shoulders.

I have *got* to start posting more often. But on the plus side, guess who's finally on-line at home now? :)

Lessee, what's been going on....

Happy belated B-day to Jessie Feff, SJ, and anyone else having one.

Welcome to Cat, and any other newcomers I missed.

Welcome back to Shadowrider, Brooklyn, Mec, and AotN.

Blue Sub 6> Didn't watch the Cartoon Network dub because I've seen it subtitled. I remember when I watched the first two eps at a SAAS meeting, and thinking it was brilliant. It was like they'd taken Street Sharks, smashed it into Waterworld, and through the magic of amazing animation, made two lame things really cool. My second viewing, where I got to see all four parts, it was like, "Why did I think this was brilliant again?" Amazing animation, but it just comes to one of those non-resolution endings that convince me that the Japanese have very different storytelling conventions.

The Election> Don't blame me, I voted libritarian. Although, I'm screwed whoever wins. I need an entire new party. We'll call it the Callous Pragmatist Party. We're Pro-Choice, Pro-Capital Punishment, Pro-Gun Rights, Pro-Euthenasia... We're just for limiting the population, basically. ;)

Religion Debate> "No thank you, I'm a pagan." And anyone who can identify that quote gets a cookie. Except you, Shinigami. :)

Homosexuality Debate> I believe that there are only two kinds of people in the world: People you'd like to hang with, and @$$holes. All other distinctions are meaningless.

Endless Waltz> ****Spoilers*******

I have to agree with Robby that the uniforms Mirimeia's troops wear do look kinda like McDonalds uniforms, but they're obviously modeled on Nazi uniforms. Which is really creepy, if you think about it. Maybe McDonalds is really a secret organization bent on world domination.

Thought the redesigned gundams were okay. Zero and Heavyarms look really cool, Deathscythe might be, if we could ever get a close look at it, and Sandrock looked kinda like Obi-Wan with that robe. (Though how that survived atmospheric entry I dunno) The only one I really didn't like was the new Tallgeese.

Relena finally gets a clue, Noin and Zechs have a nice reunion (Awwwww) and everybody ends up more or less happy at the end. Admittedly, there are some fairly large plot holes, but enjoyable over all.

Two things I gotta ask tho':

First, the scene at the beginning when the gundams are getting ready to be sent into the sun, did anyone else get a whole weird "Death of Optimus Prime" vibe off of that?

Second, is it just me, or does Sally Po have the hots for Wu Fei?

****End Spoilers********

Lady Corax> Are you an NBA fan, perchance? I was beginning to think I was the only one among all the NFL, NHL, and WWF supporters. And why do I feel like we've had this conversation before?

Gunjack><<and a rational universe to use it in.>> If this is a rational universe, I would hate to see an irrational one. ;)

Gundalung> Ah, thanks. The Top Ten does work, but due to the duplicating problem, it's more of a top three list right now. Thanks again, and keep up the good work.

GB> The dead guy elected senator> Well, Strom Thurmond can finally have someone to talk to. ;)

(Fun Fact, Strom Thurmond once single-handedly conducted a filibuster that actually went on longer then the one Jimmy Stewart does in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Unfortunatly, it was to hold up one of the big civil rights acts of the 60s.)

Wilek> Where is this Klingon women site you speak of? (Bit of a fondness for Klingon women) The reason I asked if you'd seen Evangelion is that you picked a Gundam to beat an Eva in a fight, and that made me pretty sure you hadn't seen the series. <<Is this some sort of Simpsons tribute>> No. I shouldn't have posted that. Besides being a spoiler, it's a dig at somebody who kept ending his posts with Kaji Ryoji quotes. Since I think Kaji is the second biggest a-hole in the series, (read my opinion of this person in there too if you wish) that was my response.

Mary Flanders> Yes, Kenshin is indeed the man. If you're enjoying Kenshin, you might want to check out Trigun. The more I watch, the more I'm struck by similarities between the two shows. Congrats on getting that brace off and your upcoming Eighteenth.

Doug> I can't say I've read much Clancy. Unlikely to do so any time soon either. Sigh. I'm so behind on my reading right now that I'm two seasons back on TGS and I haven't read Christine's book.

Warpmind> Jeez! What do you do for a living again? Glad you're okay, and hopefully you won't get messed with again anytime soon.

AotN> Yeah, I think Mara's really funny too. And smart... And sexy... and generally wonderful. :D

SJ> <<Wu Fei is devoted to justice.>> Trying to suppress the image of Wu Fei dressed up as Amelia now. It's not working. (shudder)

Lain> Well there's a reason Russia took Berlin before we did, and it's one word long: Eisenhauer. Ike was a politician-general of the worst sort, who spent most of WWII kissing up to Montgomery, and trying to conceal the fact that, despite his position as "Supreme Allied Commander", the Russians did pretty much what they pleased, without consulting the rest of the Allies. Ike's much more capable subordinates Patton and Bradley could have taken Berlin ahead of the Russians, and Patton wanted to, but he was overruled because Ike had already made a deal to let the Russians take Berlin.

Well, I think that's everything. C'mon guys, there's work to be done.

Aaron leaves, taking his grumbling chibis with him, but not before Hyena-chan skittered off to find Xellos-kun, who she's missed terribly.


Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Saturday, November 18, 2000 06:43:15 PM
IP: 204.31.91.81

****Kyryn, Head of TGS Edits, steps in.****

TGS> Well, to let you folks know where we stand. I've still got two critical stories early in the cycle that haven't been turned into edits yet. Once I get those in (the writers are dealing with some RL issues like moving and schools), I can assess where we are (the other stories are working through editing) and actually give out a concrete posting date for the main cycle. Since some of the later stories may still be editing as the early ones start airing, I have to give enough lead time to get the job done. As soon as I have a concrete date you will be apprised of it.

Nicole> Welcome to the room. You cannot post any of your own art on this site simply because the CR art is limited and set to a closed number of pics. If you really want people to see your art, the best option is to create your own website on a free site, or use a friend's site if they'll let you, post your work there and then post a link here telling people about your art.

Pardon me for being short, I've had a really sh!tty week and the weekend isn't getting any better so far.

****Kyryn leaves.****
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Saturday, November 18, 2000 05:47:35 PM
IP: denm3-34.iglobal.net

*Lynati Enters*

ooh, things have been interesting here since I last posted...

I will continue for the most part to stay out of the religion arguement...besides, My responses would probably look like clones of lain's. But there are a couple things I have to say.

Azrael (and others): As it may have been pointed out before, God did not write the bible. man did. and "To err is human" applies to translations as much as anything. For one thing, I learned a while back that the word "witch" in the phrase "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" was used to mean "Poisoner"; not a follower of the religion that is currently known as wicca. "witch" meant something different back then; but nobody ever bothered to change the line, like they did with "Paul was stoned" to "Paul received a stoning" when the word "stoned" gained a new meaning.

In the general sexuality debate...I have friends who both are and aren't gay, and (as long as none of the females are hitting on me) I have no problem with it. I would never assume to judge someone based on something I know nothing about; "Don't knock it 'til ya've tried it", as it were. If someone had a bad expierience, and was using that as a standpoint to bi- err, complain from, that would be something different. What a person does should only be the concern of said person and his/her partner. Or partners.
(Shane, shouting from the next dimension: "And whoever is holding the video camera!". Shane is promptly backhanded by everyone within slapping distance, and shuts up.)


SJ: All hail Bruce Cambell! HAIL!

Warpmind: you have poor luck with females?...but you sound so sexy in the CR...
(...Make you feel any better? ];)

*Lynati exits quickly, wondering if her lame attempts to cheer up Warpmind were completely out of place...*

Lynati
Saturday, November 18, 2000 05:23:29 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Here again, friends...sorry if I didn't post earlier, but I had a lot to do...

Kit&Doug, Winterwolf, Niamhgold:> Email: I got some bouncing messages...seems that size is the problem for Winterwolf and Niamhgold. Size of the MP3 is about 5 MB, if I remember well...I'll try to send it again tonight. For Kit&Doug, otherwise, there was a problem of failed conection...I'll try sending the mail to your old address, maybe it will work. Please, give me confirm.

Gside:> You really have not to thank me for the MP3...indeed, knowing you are a fond collector of MP3, I was supposed to send it to you in the first instance. Anyway, glad you liked it. Like I said in the mail, it is one of my preferred songs.

A longer post later, gotta go now!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Saturday, November 18, 2000 01:23:44 PM
IP: h255-20-158.mi2.albacom.net

Like Water for Chocolate:: Good book. Always loved the bit with the rag and the wall game after Tita is brought to the Doctor's house.

God:: I'm not sure if I've shared my views on religion with the CR before, but it basically goes as thus: We search for God to qualify our existence, but he doesn't need our acceptance of Him for Him (Or Her, although then the correct word would be Goddess)to exist. Basically whatever you decide in life to focus your energy and attention and worship on *becomes* your God. The job is God to a workaholic, Sex is God to a nymphomaniac. And so forth.

Homosexuality debate:: This topic just makes me smile. I'm bisexual. I'm not going to suddenly be straight if I am in a loving long-term relationship with a man (Which I am in, happily, right now :) ), and I'm not going to become a lesbian if I ever end up in a relationship with a woman. Doesn't work that way. My mom is gay, and has had two girlfriends since she came out when I was 12 years old. The first one was in our family for five years and I still consider her more of a influence in my life than either the new girlfriend (whom I have grown accustom to)or my dad. When my mom came out it caused a huge rift in the family that lasted for a long time. Thankfully mom and grandma made peace about it and grew close again before my grandma died last year at this time. Becuase of that I hate to see other people treated badly and/or shut out emotionally just because they're honest about their sexual preference. On the other hand I cannot STAND gay people who make it their cause to try and rile up people by having an attitude about it. They give good people everywhere, gay or straight, a bad name.

Shinigami
Saturday, November 18, 2000 01:21:08 PM
IP: spider-wq041.proxy.aol.com

Azrael> Yahoo seems to have crashed some time last night. I really tried to get ahold of you. Honest. We missed the movie last night, so we'll probably do it Sunday after the game.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Saturday, November 18, 2000 12:10:36 PM
IP: 198.215.20.203

SJ- As I've pointed out before, I'm fairly sure all the ages in Pokemon were knocked back 4 years for the American version so that the characters would be closer to the target audience age. So Ash is actually 14, Misty 15, and who knows how old Brock is. (Not that it really makes matters any better...) As far as why so many anime characters are so young... Its mostly because that's what sells.

You should read Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy tho, its a good one. So's Resteraunt at the End of the Universe. Or, just rent the video. Its more or less a word for word transcript of the first two books, minus a couple needless chapters, and you can see it all in about 2 hours.)

"You know, its times like this, I wish I had listened to what my mother told me."
"Why, what did she tell you?"
"I don't know, I didn't listen!"
-XENOGE... Er, Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Spacebabie- Writing a Gundam WIng fanfic with the characters in their 30's sounds interesting. Just PLEASE don't have them all switch genders for no apparent reason! (I've seen a story that did that. Complete with illustrations. It was creepy.)
Robby
Saturday, November 18, 2000 12:02:21 PM
IP: spider-wc063.proxy.aol.com

Hey, what's up everyone. I was wondering if anyone knows when Season 3 of the TGS series Gargoyles is going to begin.
I have heard that it is in the works and since Pendragon just ended I was wondering if anyone knows when the new season begins. Thanks.
Steve - [nyyankees2536]
New York, New York
Saturday, November 18, 2000 11:59:24 AM
IP: spider-mtc-tf041.proxy.aol.com

Religion>>>Like I said, I wont attack your beliefs if you wont attack mine((This is related to the big giaant cheese wheel)). Can we shake on that.

Al Gore>> Dear Gawd Make him stop with this whole 'Will of the people' Crap. Will of the people=Whatever the democrats want. We would have ended this by today, but nooooooo The Florida Supreme court((Who all members have been selected by Democrat goveners)) have let the cheating, er hand counts proceed. Now we wont know if Bush is president until monday.. Doeas anyone else want to punch Gore in his arrogatn Hody Doody face? A$$hole.

Sevarius Jr>>> Happy Belated Birthday, ALL Scorpios gather around, we mus do the official Scorpion tail toast.

Anime>>>SJ does have a point. Treize was 24 and Milardo was 19 and the G boys 15. I think the Ronin Warriros are close to that age, and in the "new" episoides of Sailormoon, Ive seen most of them subbed The girls are 15, Rini is 8 and Tuxie is 19. The Magic knights are 14 and Miaka and Yui are also 15. The only exception to this rule is DBZ where I know Bulma and Vegeta are in their mid to late thirties, Geeze How old is Bulma's mother? I hope to look that good when I get old.

Speaking of Anime I'm wirting a paper on Like Water For Chocolate and instead of typing Tita I typed out "Tifa" and instead of ending a sentence in Endless Flame, I ended it in "Endless WaltZ".

Speaking of Gundam Wing>>Ive just started writing a fic where the main charachters we know and love are in their thirties.

We love and Cheesy Neo's
Spacebabie
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Saturday, November 18, 2000 11:10:31 AM
IP: user-37kaovg.dialup.mindspring.com

*Warpmind enters, bleary-eyed.*
What a battle... 'Twas a thoroughly fun night... ]:)

Gunjack Valentine: *Excuse* me? Homophobic, me? Phah, I beg to differ. I am PRO homosexuals coming out of the closet... though, I suppose I have a bit of a selfish reason for that; the way my luck with women has been so far, I need every little favor from Creation I can get... ];) But really, while I personally find homosexuality a bit of a personal turnoff, I'm not about to enforce heterosexuality... Heck, I've got such a big xenophiliac streak (C'mon, we're practically drooling over naughty pics of *gargoyles* here; people attracted to their own sex are nowhere *near* the level this place can ascend to on such subjects...) *Snort* Heck, the only displays of gay behavior I cannot make myself condone would be those that infringe upon the "indecent exposure" laws... So, sorry, amigo, but no cigar. :) (Guess my general flakyness just shines too brightly, eh?)

SJ: Happy belated; good to have Kari's Avatar trouble over... for now. ];)

Gside: Righto - then Norway operates on 230V AC power. :)

Okay, that's about it for now... but before I leave, if ANYONE can e-mail me an image or equivalient of the correct way to spell the word "SHEMA" in Hebrew letters, please do so. I DO want that golem to work... ]:)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, November 18, 2000 11:02:31 AM
IP: ti21a67-0021.dialup.online.no

I'll sum my final comments up like you were going to, Gunjack.

Truth> (1) Does it exist? Maybe in light of not believing in God, I'm reaching for straws, when I say I think Truth may exist. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, having something to do with me being such an indecisive person, that an ultimate answer is available for everything. If I do believe in it, it's as a variable, like I said. Something only existing in theory. A means. A bridge. Like a variable in an algebra equation. Maybe that's my faith. (2) Does Truth NEED to exist? I don't think so. As much as I find Truth to be a reassuring thing, I find Order from Chaos to be appealing. The idea of carving our own Order, to even create our own "Truth," strikes a chord. As if that's what we're really doing, when I look at the world. Is society incidental to God/Truth? On the contrary, I think it is a worthy substitute. If there is no God (which is what we've been assuming for much of our Truth discussion) then, regardless of whether or not Truth exists, an afterlife does not - at least not by the popular definition, and creating a new one is a whole different avenue. Bottom line: Without life after death, our earthly existence becomes all that matters. Society becomes all that matters. It is our method for living and our legacy. Going by this, all our morality becomes only applicable to society, on a grand level, and we as persons, on an individual level. So, if murdering is both a wrench for society and one for our humanity, murder is something that's both not productive and not healthy, for either 'participant.' Whether or not you personally like me doesn't factor into whether or not you'd kill me, because (a) it presents a chaotic element into society and is therefore "soiling your stay" in it, and (b) it conflicts with your personal nature. We, as humans, disregarding God or Truth, are creatres dependent on relating. We need other people. And from that, we have empathy for other people. You can say that, ultimately, we're just animals, and animals kill to survive. But in being self-aware as we are, we are also unavoidably "other-aware." That's just the way it is. I refuse to believe you could murder -anyone-, stranger or no, without feeling remourse that has nothing to do with God or Truth.

Pride> My final analysis for this is simpler than its predecessor. Basically, I see pride as inherently human. We are self-aware, therefore, we care about ourselves. We want. That's human nature. The very core of it. That core is wrapped in something else: selfishness. And selfishness is what we see and interact with, with little notice of its root. I'm straying... but suffice to say, selfishness is not in and of itself a bad thing. It's inherent in us, therefore it must be neutral. Taking into account all of the above, I cannot see God punishing us for selfishness or pride.

God> I don't have much to say on this one, other than that your "author of a book" analogy redefines things well. I can't be certain, since I think as I write, and since we're ending our discussions, I'm not going to write in response, but I think you've proven your idea about God's personality and subjective/objective Truth with that one line.

The Universe> Again, your proof about the three trees verse evolution is quite effective. Is that yours? It'll stick with me for awhile... My stand on evolution has always been: I don't disbelieve in it based on any prejudices (obviously, since I don't believe in any religion) yet I can't fully accept it in its current form based on the stretch of the imagination that it requires.

Religion> This last one is mine. I wanted to address a couple loose ends I was never able to bring up during the heat of our exchanges, because I was always too relieved to finish responding to remember. ;) If you want to, feel free to respond to any of this. I don't think it will develop into another week-long dialogue like the rest of the stuff.

First off is something I found out about my Junior Religion teacher. Remember me mentioning his statement about "just because there's a Hell, it doesn't mean anyone's there"? Well, I think I finally know what he meant. His belief turns out to be that Hell is actually non-existence. Basically, ceasing to exist, just like any athiest will tell you happens to you when you die. The parallel that belief makes with athiesm astounded me. But it could be sound. From what he says, the origin of the word "Hell" is from garbage pits where they'd burn trash in ancient Greece. Jesus referred to sinners being tossed into Hell, i.e. being thrown away. From this light, our discussion could be turned right upside down. Rather than judging all of us and divvying us between Heaven and Hell, which is how I viewed it, this new theory could mean that it is actually natural for us to expire completely upon our deaths and fade into nothingness. All God does is salvage those folks he deems worthy for his own version of the National Honors Society. What do you think?

Secondly, I just thought I'd recommend some reading. Your comment from awhile back thanking me for a tidbit on Buddhism gave me the impression you don't really know the Eastern religion too well. My advice: learn about them. I didn't have a clue before last year's Religion class, either, but that was our "World Religions" year, and let me tell, it's VERY interesting. You won't regret reading up on them, and afterwards you can claim to be that much more knowledgeable. ;) It's a good way to put your own religion into perspective. I just wish I could give you my Religion book, as it was a very nicely comprehensive guide to those religions.

Well, that about wraps it up. It's indeed been fun.
Entity
Saturday, November 18, 2000 10:08:10 AM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Back again. Didn't do as well as I would have liked on the DLD exam. Oh well. I've come to rely heavily on the mediorcrity of others for my grades. Maybe everone else is getting better.

This post is supposed to be Dark Blue.

Oops, forgot to say something to Gunjack.
Gunjack> <<Would it be the same temperture if it had been created?>>: Depends on whether the universe was created to look like there had been a big bang when we thought it happened. The universe could have concievably been created at any temperature with any degree of cooling, right?

Lain> <<the differences between Gluck and Monteverdi's interpretations on Orpheus>>: What about Offenback? You can't forget Offenback.


Gunjack> <<I'm not lefthanded either>>: You mean, I'll put down my sword and you'll put down your rock and we'll try to kill each other like civilized people?

Wilek> <<I tend to write my posts in Notepad>>: Should probably do that. Not sure when I'll get fed up.
<<they have a national morpheme.>> Eh?>>: Exactly. Or did you alread know what a morpheme was? Actually, double checking my notes, I think it's a phone, phoneme, and morpheme at the same time.
<<OMG. OMG!! OMFG!!! <worships>>>: I am the mp3 king. Fear me for I can find near anything, and it will be odd.
<<No, it means that before the first Plank interval, things were happening that we cannot determine>>: But since a Planck time is the smallest amount of time that means anything, the instant immediately before the univers was in existance, it wasn't. Since nothing can happen in between, it was that old when it first existed.
<<I can't stand suits>>: I've been inured. Seven years of jackets and ties worn at school do that to you. Incidentally, the male portion of the dress code was only one small paragraph, while the female portion took up quite a few pages.
<<a Kefka costume (black fur coat, red and white makeup, more psychotic than usual demeanor)>>: You need more green with that.
<<As below, so above, I think>>: I can't figure out if that was supposed to be derogatory or a complement.


Winterwolf> <<Gside wins with the correct answer for the riddle>>: Boo yah. Thank you.
<<You want him to have this right Niamhgold? Oh just watch out for the tentacles>>: Could I at least have a long bladed object instead the the stick?
<<Thanks for the pizza place names>>: You are quite welcome. My family takes its pizza rather seriously.

Greg Bishansky> <<I applaud Pope John Paul for acknowledging evolution as a fact>>: Odd. Scientists havent done that yet.

Warpmind> <<I could just remember which is AC and which is DC>>: All batteries are DC (I don't think they know how to make AC batteries). AC is alternating current, usually made by spinning magnets inside wire coils, causing voltage to increase then decrease sinusoidally. Also, if you get shocked by AC, your muscles constrict so you cannot let go of the contacts.

Gunjack> <<my bro isn't dead... Turns out he hasn't even left Harding yet>>: Good to hear.


Odd question: Is homonecropyrobestialiacophobia really a phobia?

Welcome Nicole.

Winterwolf> <<I wonder, how much disk space does [the mp3] take up?>>: 3.20 Megs.

Sev. Jr.> Happy birthday.
<<Bruce as Zaphod Beeblebrox>>:That makes so much sense.
<<I know is that if Bruce "I'm so cool I could be an iceberg" Campbell>>: And just think how much cooler he would be with the peril sensitive sunglasses.

Sleep now.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Saturday, November 18, 2000 03:41:37 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

**Winterwolf scampers in**

Hola! Figured I'd see what's going on and make some replies... Turkey Day is on the way! :)

Representative of the Crown> I say there seems to be a much more pressing issue out there for Britain. If you thought rain, floods and tornadoes were as bad as it got think again. The Sky Is Falling! Bathroom excretions from airplanes are pelting Britain. There have been 36 recorded cases so far this year.

Doug> Excellent! Good to know the job has finally come under control. ^_^

Nicole Niemczyk> Welcome! :)

Sevarius Jr> Happy belated birthday!

**POST FILLERS**

Be careful were you eat - Transit police in the nation's capital are cracking down on illegal eaters. The system does not allow food to be eaten in bus, trains or stations. As many as 35 snackers have been busted in recent weeks - including a 12-year-old girl found chomping on French fries on the first day of the crackdown. Transit officers handcuffed her and led her away. Metro Transit Police Chief Barry McDevitt says - quote - "we really do believe in zero tolerance."

**END POST FILLERS**

Wow that was short reply wise. Plenty of reading though. Have a great weekend!

**Winterwolf scampers out**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Saturday, November 18, 2000 01:21:05 AM
IP: 206.15.120.92

***BEGIN RP***
"Well? Who is it going to be?"
All eyes were upon Kari as she stood between Sammael and SJ, her two 'suitors'. She would now have to make a choice, and pick which one of them would own her heart....
Kari turned to Sammael. "Sammael, you're really a terrific guy..."
SJ began to sweat heavily.
"You're funny, attractive, and all around a great guy. Any girl would be lucky to have you as their boyfriend."
Sammael smiled sheepishly. "Wow....um....no one has ever said anything like that to me before.....most girls are a little put off by the horns and tail...."
She took his hand in hers. "You're very sweet. I've grown to care for you these past few weeks that we've known each other."
SJ's face began to fall, and his shoulders slumped.
"But...." Kari said. She grabbed SJ around the shoulders and hugged him. "This crazy fool is the one for me."
SJ's face lit up. "You....you mean it?"
Kari elbowed him playfully in the ribs. "After all we've been through together, did you really think I'd ditch you for the first cute demon that I saw?" She turned to Sammael. "I hope you understand."
Sammael looked a little sad, but he smiled warmly at her. "I do. What can I say? You two are meant for each other."
Warpmind looked at Kari. "Well, now that the choice has been made, maybe you would like to see if you can revert to your Avatar form."
Kari nodded, and stepped away from SJ. She closed her eyes and focused. Bright white energy surrounded her, and in a flash, she was once again in her form as the Avatar of Athena.
She curled her fist and grinned. "Okay, back in business. NOW I'm ready to kick some alien ass."
****END RP FOR NOW***

Hello Stars! Well, I've been out the last couple days. Wensday because, well, it was my birthday! **pauses for fanfare** Yes, another day, another year. The rest of the time I've been spending building my own RPG using the "RPG Maker" video game for the Sony Playstation. Anyone else have this? Jesus it's great. Wilek, you gotta own this. You can actually build your own RPG games for the Playstation! They may only wind up being 16-bit, but it's cool enough just to be able to build your own.

And now, on with the replies....Starting with an editorial....

This is a little thing I like to call "SJ's Take on Homosexuality":
Well, I'm gonna comment on this because Gunjack has hinted that I might be homophobic. See, now I don't think of myself as homophobic.....well, let me tell you how I feel, honestly. Here's the deal--I don't "approve" of homosexuality. When I say that, I don't mean "I don't approve of homosexuality because all of them queers are evil degenerates who ought to be shot." Nope. When I say I don't "approve" of homosexuality, I'm saying that I disagree with that lifestyle, but ultimately I'm not really bothered by it, and I respect the choices that people make. Look, I'm not losing sleep because of all the homosexuals in the world. It doesn't bother me. I've had gay friends before, I know gay people now, and I don't judge or condemn them. If me disapproving of homosexuality makes me homophobic, I guess I am, but I would think that in order to be "phobic" about homosexuality, I would have to be either scared or threatened by them. Which I'm not.
Most of my disapproval does stem from religion. But while I personally think that God "frowns upon" homosexuality, do I think that he has a problem with gays? No. If two people love each other, I honestly believe that God acknowledges that, same-sex or not. There was a discussion about this topic on Pistoff's message board recently. My take is, even if God considers homosexuality a sin, it's gotta be waaaaaaaay down there on his list. What do you think pisses God off more--murder, rape, bigotry, or two individuals of the same sex who are engaged in a loving relationship with one another? My belief is that homosexuality is maybe one of those things that concerns God (perhaps because of the whole "be fruitful and multiply" thing), but he's not making it rain fire and brimstone because of it.
I will admitt this though, and you can interpret this as homophobic if you like--too much of a display of male homosexuality freaks me out a little. Lesbianism, obviously, I don't have a problem with. ;) I do get a little creeped out by too much male homosexual activity, though. I can maybe take two guys kissing. But two guys fondling each other? I gotta draw the line. Take a book I read not too long ago--"Lost Souls" by Poppy Z. Brite. I heard great things about this novel. "It's just like Anne Rice". I read it. Good overall story, nice take on the vampire myth, etc. But the book was hard for me to read at times because, it would seem, every other page had some sort of homosexual act going on......including incest. And that's just messed up. So, if that makes me homophobic, I guess that's what I am. I got no problem with female homosexuality, but open displays of male love kinda repulses me. Men are disgusting animals, and we've somehow tricked women into digging us. ;)

Election Coverage: I'm really getting pissed now.
It looked as if things were going to be all over with by tomorrow, noon. We could all just go on with our lives. But, now that they've got the lawyers involved in this mess, they've pushed the deadline back to Monday. This election will never end. Goddamnit! I wanted this thing over a week and a half ago!
At this point, I would say just flip a coin, but these two assholes would argue over that.
Al Gore: "I think that it is the 'will of the people' that I call heads. The only way that this coin toss can be fair and equitable is if I get to call heads (unless the coin lands 'tails', upon which my lawyers will sue you for using an illegal coin)."
George Bush: "You ain't callin' heads, surfboard, cause I am. And don't use that coin! I bet that's a two-headed coin! You're trying to pull some sort of liberal trick on me!"

Although, I agree--it would have been best for Gore to concede. It would have made him look the better man, like he was a man of integrity. Now, and this is me being non-partisan, he looks petty because he's unleashed all these goddamn lawyers.

Why can't either of these guys be like Jesse Ventura? Now that's a politician. He's just signed on to be an analyst for Vince McMahon's new XFL league. Who gives a damn about governing! It's time for some wrasslin' and football!!!

Revocation of Independence: Didn't we kick your asses to get this country anyway? Thank you for the offer, but I'd rather not drink tea or eat crumpets for the rest of my life. You can keep your Spice Girls and your Oasis, thank you very much.
Although give us Robbie Williams. I like him. He seems angry and arrogant enough to fit right in with the rest of us Yanks. ;]

Doug: Ah, so you've been following Ennis' run on the Punisher maxi, huh? :) There is nothing I would love more than a ongoing Ennis written Punisher series, but if the maxi is all we get, I'll be happy. It's the most entertaining the Punisher has been in years. And what can I say? Spacker Dave rules!
BTW, I too am going through a bit of withdrawal now that Preacher has ended. Starr had some of the best lines, I agree. One of my personal favorites: "My **** is in the bitch's mouth. And NOT in a good way." ;p

Anime: This is just a pet peeve of mine.....why must the majority of anime characters be ridiculously young? God I hate that. You got Heero running around blowing up space stations, and he's supposedly only 15 years old??? Or Ash Ketchum. He's 10 freakin years old, and his mom lets him tour the country side without parental supervision? Treize Kushrenada should be in his late 20s, early 30s at LEAST. What's the deal? Why does everyone have to be so young?

And now.....the return of ENTERTAINMENT NEWS!!!!!

The God Known As Bruce Campbell: The latest rumor that I've heard has to do with Bruce and the upcoming "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe". Jay Roach, the director of the current hit movie "Meet the Parents", is set to direct the feature film version of the book, and apparently he wants to cast Bruce as Zaphod Beeblebrox!!!!! I couldn't be more excited if I knew who in the hell Zaphod was! I've never read the book, but all I know is that if Bruce "I'm so cool I could be an iceberg" Campbell is in it, my ass is in the theatre the first day.

From the "Please Make It Stop" department: In their further attempt to ruin any chance that this movie has of being entertaining, the latest rumor is that Matthew Lillard, of Scream fame, has been cast as Shaggy in the Scooby Doo movie. He'd be teaming up with Sarah Michelle Gellar as Daphne (good choice) and Freddie Prinze Jr. as Freddy (COLOSSALLY bad choice).
My sister actually made a movie with Matthew Lillard once. She was a production assistant. He's a nice guy. Can't act worth a damn, but a nice guy.

"Please Make It Stop" Redux: Since Hollywood is bankrupt of ideas, it must cannibalize itself. Charlie's Angels has made about a hundred mill so far....so YES, they are planning a sequel.
I swear to God, if you look at any movie guide that discusses movies that are opening soon, I'm willing to bet that 90 percent of all of movies you look at would either be 1) a sequel 2) a remake of another movie or tv show 3) a clone of the one good and original movie that came out the year before.

Spider-Man Update: Well, it looks as if Sony went through the list of weird actors to play Norman Osbourne, aka the Green Goblin, for the upcoming Spider-man film....first there was Kevin Spacey, than Nic Cage, than John Malkovich....and now apparently Willem DaFoe has bee confirmed as the Green Goblin. Personally, I like the choice. Cause I think the guy's a nutcase, and it'll be fun to watch him up there on the screen.

And finally.... Uber-cool martial arts news.....Marvel is currently courting stuntman-turned-actor-turned-fanboy-idol Ray Park to play the lead in their upcoming live action "Iron Fist" movie. Now that would be one hell of a film.

Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Saturday, November 18, 2000 12:44:10 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Okay, I didn't expect this to become this big a deal, but: My views on Homosexuality/ Sexual Preferance:
Personally, I don't like homosexuality. I'm hetero all the way. If you're homosexual, that's fine. I don't really care, its up to you. I don't particularly approve, but that doesn't mean I think any less of you. I know people with much deeper problems than simple sexual preferance. Most views I have expressed up to this point have been those taken by the Bible. The Bible denounces it. Again I will say, I don't mind if you are, that doesn't mean I agree with it. I truly hope that settles the issue with those with whom I first started the discussion. It was never ment to start a huge discussion.

I only say even this because it seems that those I first gave my oppinion to saw that as a challenge and/or a debate, if y'all want to keep the discussion up, I'll be more than glad to choose up a side <whether the one I agree with or not> and debate to the end of time.

Besides, there are so many more interesting things to talk about... ;)
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Friday, November 17, 2000 11:51:54 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Me><<Instead of responding to your points directly, I'm going to try to craft a statement that addresses them.>> Except I DID respond directly... Yet another frankenstien... :P
Gunjack Valentine
Friday, November 17, 2000 11:05:41 PM
IP: 209-223-253-31.ausa.net

Doug > sorry you're disappointed; for what it's worth, that's _always_ been Corwin's story, not something I just decided to do. But he and Hippolyta were very close in a brotherly/sisterly way (it's Icarus who turned out to have been harboring a secret longing for her, poor guy!)

Taleweaver > thanks for the weather report; just my luck, here I was looking forward to basking in the warm for a while after a week of scraping ice every night and morning on my way to and from work. Ah, well. And yeah, I've been to the big Dland many a time, so I know the drill. Especially with Becca in tow! ; )

Homosexuality debate > my personal stance on this is same as my personal stance on all things sexual (and religious and political, come to think) -- whatever someone wants to do that doesn't unnecessarily harm or impede someone else is their own business, and what bugs me is people who feel compelled to push or enforce their own views on others. Half my co-workers are gay, a sib is gay, it's never been a big deal because it's their business and only affects me as much as I let it affect me. Which, btw, is not at all; what should I care what someone else wants to do in his/her own bedroom? To each their own. Then again, I'm told that my views on life are rather odd.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 11:03:34 PM
IP: 07-141.009.popsite.net

Here it is! My final Logic Hit... For this debate, anyway...

Entity><<You've REALLY not been having good run-ins with DC.>> Tell me about it. ;P

Instead of responding to your points directly, I'm going to try to craft a statement that addresses them.

Truth/Anarchy - <<Are you saying that the only reason to follow -any- guidelines of behavior at all is for the sake of God or Truth?>> Yes. If those giudelines aren't imposed by one of those two, then they're merely subjective inventions, and I see no reason why they should compel me. <<The reason we behave according to some form of order is to be able to fulfill ourselves, and function as a society.>> But assuming that there is no God or Truth, the benefits of Society and the best methods for fulfilling ourselves are entirely subjective; hence, we would end up with chaos. <<If you discovered there was no God or Truth, would you think nothing of stabbing me in the back? I would hope not.>> Don't worry, you're WAY too cool to kill. ;) *Turns serious* ...But assuming that I DIDN'T like you, there would be no moral reason not to kill you or anyone else who got on my bad side. I don't care much for society, and I DO have a killer instinct (making killing a form of fulfillment), so neither of your most recent reasons would have much affect. In my opinion, the very fact that both of us recognize this statement as horrific supports the idea of Truth.
<<But if the Truth, from these common threads, does ever carve itself into the fabric of existence, that carving is beyond our ability to reach. It's there only in theory.>> If this is true, then it means that no one can ever know any Truth. Therefore, all truth claims are wrong, and the dominos start toppling again. Since I haven't seen enough evidence that the chain reaction can be stopped, I'm going to continue to assume that Truth exists and can be found by Humans.
My Premise: Objective Truth exists, and can be discovered by Humanity.
I'm not sure if this conflicts with the rest of your theory, but if an objective system of Truth exists, then it will apply to all questions about the issue it addresses. <<But that correct answer is only applicable to THAT situation.>> This statement either rejects absolute truth or holds that ALL details of a particular situation have equal moral wieght... Right up to the time of day and the shoes worn by the participents. If the "Ultimate answers" are objective (which they must be to be Ultimate), then the only way they can apply to one stiuation is if ALL other situations involve totally different ethical questions. The only way this could be true is if the mountians of "meaningless" detail surrounding each event in life were moraly relevent, making every situation totally unrelated to every other situation.
This means that Truth IS unknowable. If all the evidence available is totally unrelated, there's no way to draw a logical conclusion. However, that realization merely brings us back to the question of Anarchy.

Sin/Second Chances - <<Then we have different definitions of pride.>> My definition of Pride is the same as yours, I think...
Pride: a) an overhigh opinion of oneself; exagerated self-esteem; conceit
b) Haughty behavior resulting from this; arrogance
-Webster's Unabridged
<<Yours strikes me as being: n. the lack of a bovine sense of complacency; the ability to think and reason put to use.>> I said that Adam and Eve fell because of pride, yet they displayed neither of the attributes you mentioned. To accept the word of God (delivered face to face, no less) as a final answer is no more "Bovinely Complacent" than accepting your doctor's prognosis of a weak heart. Both are in a position to know. And second, their refusal to accept the word of God was blatently irational; If God told you to your face NOT to do something, would you do it because you "couldn't see the harm in it"?
As for how the Fall was a result of pride (according to the common definition, look at the serpent's temptation of Eve. He starts out with "...for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God..." ...How is this anything but an appeal to pride?
<<You seem to be interpreting it as a "pride" issue; that I can't just go along with what God wants out of selfishness.>> I thought it was just the classic "I'm screwed either way, so why not resist and get some satisfaction" idea... <<I could live my life according to how God wants me to, and go to heaven, even though that would violate my own personal feelings.>> If your personal feelings, or my personal feelings, or ANYONE'S personal feelings differ from Truth, then I humbly submit that they should be altered.
<<...because Truth has more credibility than God in this case, since it is obviously above his control, for if it weren't, he would simply alter it so that Truth -wouldn't- lead to suffering, but that "Truth" would actually mean following his totalitarian rule.>> *Looks it over carefully* A foolproof arguement. I agree. :)
<<IMO, if Truth causes suffering, then there is most definitely a conflict there somewhere.>> I agree, but is it not logical to say that if following the truth prevents suffering, that NOT following the truth will LEAD to suffering? <<Since in following Truth, we're resisting God, the conflict has to be between Truth and God. Do you think that it's Truth's fault, and not God's, that following it would lead to suffering?>> In the hypothetical, it would be God's fault.
<<So, how selfish am I really being in condemning myself to Hell? How selfish is -anyone- being who condemns themself to Hell?>> Sin results in Hell. Sin is primarily commited for selfish reasons; that is, it is commited to please the self, not others. As such, selfishness is the whole reason Hell exists in the first place, yes?
And if God WERE a psycho, I don't think it'd be selfish selfish to resist him; if you're resisting in the hopwe that he would come to his senses, it'd be the definition of selfLESS.

God - <<Well, this is God we're talking about, remember? God can't be defined in the same manner as us.>> I agree to some extent, but we ARE suposed to be made in his image... I understand that to mean that we have his spiritual/mental qualities, thoughy in a weaker and corrupted form. <<We're self-aware, but who says God is?>> Well, he uses first-person pronouns when he talks to people, and he describes himelf at some length several times in the bible. Both are hard tricks to pull if you aren't self aware... o_O <<Self-awareness is the term we've dubbed for organic things. Personality is the result of having a brain...>> I see no reason why the term cannot describe inorganic or spiritual beings, and I believe that our soul/psyche/personality comes from something more than genetics. <<Did God have 'formative years'? No. He's beyond all those things.>> Remember that Far Side cartoon about a young God making a chicken in his bedroom? ;)
<<Is this a trick question?>> Nope, just an example of how frightfuly ignorant I can be... o_O <<If you claim that God's personality is a reflection of Truth, that doesn't fly, because then all that does is subjectify Truth, not objectify God.>> What if I claim that Truth is a reflection of God's personality? To my understanding, Truth is the imprint of God's mind on his creation. His mind is orderly, so the laws of the Universe reflect that order. His mind is just, and so we humans inherently seek justice. <<If you have a personality, that makes you inherently subjective.>> Toward the outside world, yes. However, let's go back to the example from a while ago of an author and his book. If I write a story, are my opinions about any part of that creation subjective? Unless I change my mind about something in the story, the objective reality of the story is a reflection of my mind.

The Universe - <<I do admit your stand wraps things up in a much neater package. A much appealingly neater package.>> Thank you! :D *head expands like a balloon*
<<I'm simply saying the foundation upon which they're based is really not a foundation, but the appearence of one; not really order, but the appearence of order. Order from chaos. Chaos being the real foundation.>> Hmm... I get the idea of a rational God from the orderly nature of the laws... I'm assuming you get the idea of a foundation of Chaos from the randomness in nature, yes? And since pure Chaos shuts down any attempt at scientific examination, it appears you've found a plate, too...
So now the question comes down to whether Order can arrise from chaos. The problem is, there's no proof of objective proof that this is true! Where are the inarguable examples?
<<Why can't the appearence of order from chaos be just as imperfect as the reality of order?>> Mainly because you seem to be claiming that nature is a microcosm of the chaos/law dynamic. So if the absolute chaos produces order, then shouldn't the limited chaos of nature be able to produce limited order? And if the limited "chaos" doesn't produce order, where do you turn for evidence to support your theory? <<I don't follow. Sounds provocative, though. Please expand.>> A proof of Order from Chaos would be to find three trees of identical height and trunk width arranged in a perfect line with an identical amount of space between them. Now compare the variables involved in this occurence with the variables involved in producing mankind by evolution. If order arrose from chaos (thus making evolution possible), then the much more likely improbability of triplet trees would have occured a great many times between when trees evolved and the present. And in addition to triplet trees, we would see triplet rocks, stars, mountian ranges, etc. In all cases, a straight line is a far more probable event than the evolution of sentient life; yet we can't seem to find a single example of it. From this, I logicaly conclude that if nature cannot produce simple order, it cannot produce complex order either.

<<You're getting your meaning across for the most part. Take heart. You've been wiped clean twice now and have come back both times.>> Thanks... :) It's always nice to have some confirmation that my ideas are emanating from the proper orifice... ;)

<<NOT if we're talking a self-contained universe. Also consider that we've never observed, in science, the actual contraction of a universe. Who can predict what effect gravity has?>> True. Besides, according to Gside, the space DOES contract, so it's a moot point.
And my theory was so nice, too... ;)
<<If they were to be erased, the matter and enegy would still behave the same way, just as it behaved the same way before the birth of the first cell.>> I wasn't refering to the Laws themselves, but rather to the concepts BEHIND the laws. If bodies at didn't and hadn't ALWAYS tended to stay at motion, it would be rather obvious... And so, I logicaly assume thatthey've been in effect as long as matter and energy have existed.

<<But within the context of the argument, such a "reliance" is necessary, because the existence of something beyond the universe is a bi-product of the argument, and thus becomes a variable that needs to be dealt with.>> I'm not sure, but I think we agree on this. Are you saying that the logical by-product of your arguement is the assumption that something exists outside the Universe?

<<The past week has been the philosophical equivalent of inhaling a whole quart of ice cream in ten seconds.>> "Too much of a good thing is WONDERFUL!" - Mae West
Of course, she wasn't refering to logic... *wink wink, nudge nudge* ;)

That looks like everything... It's been a vastly entertaining dialogue, and you've helped me to really firm up my understanding of Truth. :) I hope we can continue some time, but I could use some rest too... In any case, thanks! :D

I'll try to get in some replies to everyone else tomorrow... -_-
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 10:54:15 PM
IP: 209-223-253-31.ausa.net

[gope=hope]


Happiness!


Daphne, apprentice-wordsmith
Friday, November 17, 2000 09:49:53 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.202.203.philadelphia1.level3.net

Doug>> <college and grades> thanx! I sure gope so... i really should finish all my applications this weekend.

Wilek Nereus>> I thought you'd like that.

BFTS PIZZA DEBATE>> I understand I'm too late to cast my vote, but I have to say it: Papa John's.

Happiness!


Daphne, apprentice-wordsmith
Friday, November 17, 2000 09:49:26 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.202.203.philadelphia1.level3.net

Just hopping in to prove that I'm still alive ... somewhat ...

Newcomers: Welcome. Especially you, fellow Michigander. :)

**waves and jogs out**
Coyote the Bando - [gathering_motor_city_2004@hotmail.com]
Algonac, Michigan
Friday, November 17, 2000 09:22:14 PM
IP: 216.28.101.138

Shadowrider: Welcome back friend! :) I'll send you some email so we can catch up! Speaking of which I never got the email with the mp3 either. :( I wonder, how much disk space does it take up?
Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Friday, November 17, 2000 08:18:20 PM
IP: 206.15.120.92

Gunjack> You're quite worng about me being homophobic, especially since my late brother George was gay. Yes, I did not like teh fatc that he tried to have sex with me, right before we were both neutered, but I should also let you know that I am a supporter of the Log Cabin Club and I only have a problem with whiny liberals like Barney Frank, but let's face it, he's obnoxious and whiny and ultra-liberal.

I am militantly liberalphobic, but not homophobic. Besides, I make passes at Pat Toman along with all the ladies (though that's because Pat Toman is Madame Destine) :)

And there is no reason to be homophobic. Just don't bend over in England, an all boys Catholic school, or San Francisco :)
Reverend Attila - [revattila@catsrule.garfield.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Friday, November 17, 2000 07:26:40 PM
IP: 141.164.65.28

Shadowrider: Still no e-mail from you in our box. :( Good to see you back though.
Doug & Kit
Friday, November 17, 2000 07:12:42 PM
IP: pool-63.52.170.116.dlls.grid.net

**DPH lets his better judgement win the battle and refrains from the current debate about sexual orientation. DPH, also, decides to enjoy supper and then post.**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Friday, November 17, 2000 07:11:58 PM
IP: max1-45.cwy.cei.net

Hello, everyone! I'm really just posting real quick so y'all know I'm still around. :) Welcome to all the newcomers! I'm sure you'll like it here. Feel free to drop me a line anytime!

Wilek> Hi back to ya! :) How's the Nereus Project going? Need any help? ;)

Man, these topics are risky...I'm always amazed that the dicussions we have in here can be so emotionally and personally charged, and yet we don't have huge wars or bad feelings. Hope that these turn out the same way!

As for my feelings on the topics, well...most of my thoughts have already been said by someone else. If anyone wants to know my personal viewpoint, just let me know and I'll elaborate.

Mary> Glad you're getting better! And hey, that's cool that you've got a birthday coming up soon...remind me, and I'll bring cake! :)

Well, glad to see y'all again...hope everyone has awesome weekends, and I'll see you around!
Lady Corax
Friday, November 17, 2000 07:02:47 PM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

Same sex marriages
You can say I am totaly for same sex marriage, Well I am in the minority group of homosexuality/bisexuality mysef.
Two weeks ago in one of study Hall's some freshmen were talking about same sex marriage and them saying it was unnaterual, well execpt one! So I decide to trun around and say what is unnatural, They was like gays/lesbian getting married. I responed by saying how can it be unnatural it doesn't matter if your same the sex or not it is the love you hold for each other nothing eles, Then they wanted to know if I belived if it was a choice to be gay or bi, I responed by saying no it is not a choice to be gay your are born with your sexuality no one can change that, I foreget what he said but I said do you wake up sometimes in the morings and decide to be gay or bi for a day, he said no I'm stright and not like that and never going to be that way, Well there you go we don't either were born this way just as most are born straight, sexuality is a thing no can control. Even today while me and a few friends were in the libiray which two others are as well gay and a bi female aked if we three were gay we all said yep :)
I to belive that the Church will just allow it, it is the 21 century anyway! And as I said before it is not a choice why won't some people get that though there closed minded minds!
Well that is it
bye
Lawrence - [craft_celtic@yahoo.com]
Ohio
Friday, November 17, 2000 07:00:31 PM
IP: chil-7200-eth0.bright.net

I have been a complete fan from the beginning. I am an artist also, and have been religously drawing Gargoyles since they first came out. i have over 50 gargoyles that i have drawn, and i would like to know how i could post one of my pictures on here, if that is possible. I have all the action figures, and i watch every night at 1:30am on the disney channel. i have also contacted disney, and expressed my concern for the shows cancellation. i also asked them if they would ever create new episodes. I believe that if they get enough e-mails, requesting new episodes of the show, they will have no choice but to do it. What do you think? Anyone that is interested, please e-mail. As to how i can get my pictures on this webset, i am asking permission to be able to do this. I have always wanted to share my work with other people. Thank you.
Nicole Niemczyk - [Salem124@juno.com]
Warren, Michigan, USA
Friday, November 17, 2000 06:58:42 PM
IP: 1cust109.tnt49.det3.da.uu.net

Just a couple of things...

SX> They've shut down Scour Exchange. Now the only alternative is iMesh, which sucks, for anything higher than an mp3 file. I swear, if those closed-minded, greedy bastards screw over my ability to sit on my ass and click my way to entertainment, I shall become very vengeful.

Superman/Batman Movie> No DBZ today. Cartoon Network's doing this 'friday movie' thing. I thought today's was pretty decent (would've been better with the old animation style). Two things really caught my attention in it: They actually show one of those nightclubs with the girls dancing in cages... dunno what you call them, but outside of this I've only seen them in R-rated movies, really. The other thing is Luthor said "For God sake." And here they couldn't even say _die_ in DBZ up till recently. *shakes head*
Entity
Friday, November 17, 2000 06:40:58 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Entity - Both. I'm Homophobic by nature, and looking around at the world, it seems to be the logical responce tothe realities of human interaction.

And I know what you mean about needing a break... my fingers are starting to wear out. I'll try to make this last post a "closing arguements" kinda deal... And maybe we can come back to it in a few weeks, after we've both gotten some fresh air... :)
Gunjack Valentine
Friday, November 17, 2000 04:44:46 PM
IP: 209-223-253-90.ausa.net

Taleweaver> <<<As close as I can see, someone comments, other respond, then others join in on a point made in the response. Where is this going?>>> Why does it have to "go" anywhere? Is the idea of a simple, unagenda'd religion discussion so hard to grasp?

As ironic timing would have it... I think I'm withdrawing from discussion now. I'll reply to Gunjack's pending set of responses, but that'll be all. The past week has been the philosophical equivalent of inhaling a whole quart of ice cream in ten seconds. I need a break. ;)

Looks like many others have jumped on the bandwagon, though - or at least an offshoot of it. All I'll say on homosexuality is that I have zero problem with it. The more population control we have, the better. And besides, it adds an extra dimension to things.

Gunjack> Are you personally homophobic or idealogically homophobic?
Entity
Friday, November 17, 2000 04:20:15 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Real post a bit later, but first I think I'll get myself in a good deal of trouble... -_- ...So I'm gonna give you some food for thought.

I've noticed that we're talking about homosexuality now. Since this is such a touchy subject, I want to make a move to head off any possible namecalling.

To that end, I have a confession to make: I am a homophobe. As a matter of fact, I might easily be one of the most homophobic people in the CR... Though from their comments, I suspect that a good many of the regulars in here might be able to challenge that claim. Wilek and Warpmind show SEVERE signs of homophobia in every post, and the Reverend Attila displays a more militant strain. SJ shows a few hints of homophobia, and I'm starting to wonder about Lain... I'm sorry, but the Teddy Bear suit gives you away.

And I'd like to say that it's not nescessarily a bad thing. Without at least a little homophobia, wouldn't life be boring? Would you want to live in a world of Homophilia? I'd put forward that Homophobes have been given an undeserved reputation, and I for one refuse to allow this characaturing to continue.

Thank you.

Oh, and before you burn me at the stake, see if you can figure out my meaning... -_-...
Gunjack Valentine
Friday, November 17, 2000 03:46:59 PM
IP: 209-223-253-90.ausa.net

We must be vibing Greg. I was thinking Gore should concede in a way to show that *he* gave Bush the election. Undermining his credibility of winning the Presidency as an elected official. But rather than Gore start campaigning for the next one. The DNC should start a talent search for the next qualified person to lead. (I still hold that if Bush had chosen Libbie Dole as a running mate, it wouldn't even be a close contest.) But find someone who can lead work on them becoming the next Pres. I don't know, too Machivellian? *shrug*
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Friday, November 17, 2000 03:28:37 PM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

OK, it looks like I'm at the start of another discussion this timeo n homosexuality. I would like to steer that discussion away from the well-trodden ground of the physical aspect to the emotional element. It seems to me, that sex is a smaller part of a relationship compared to how people feel about one another and how well they get along. I mean look at heterosexual relationships, is sex the ultimate goal in these relationships? I remember a few months ago when someone tried to call me on homophobia because I didn't like the Willow/Tara relationship. But it wasn't the same gender, it was because it looked like Willow was running away from Oz as opposed to running to Tara. The relationship seemed dubious not the players. What do you all think? Is the physical aspect of a relationship the final authority? Or is there more?
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Friday, November 17, 2000 03:24:30 PM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

Spacebabie> Well, if the people in Palm Beach weren't retards, this election would have gone to Gore. And while I admire his "never surrender" attitude, I think he is going at this the wrong way. What Gore should do is concede defeat for now and let Bush deal with a split Senate. Whenever Bush makes a mistake, Gore should be there to point it out, and he could begin his campaign for the 2004 election right away, and make Bush's term a living Hell so that he'll win the 2004 election. Those are the tactics I would use. Gore lost... for now.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 03:10:17 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

First and foremost, I was not attacking the Churches. I was however attacking their actions. If they have the right to condemn same-sex couples, I have the right to condemn their actions as pure bigotry. And that's all I'm going to say on the subject.

Second, I'm going to pull out of this debate for good. No one is going to change their minds. I'm not going to get anyone to reconsider their faith, and no one is going to succeed in converting me. As Sevarius Jr said. We're all right and we're all wrong. The fact of the matter is, whether someone is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, Pagan or Atheist, there are self-rightious people in every camp. I still think I'm right, but that's from my point of view and I acknowledge that other points of view exist and are just as legitimate as mine.

Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 02:58:36 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

Hi, guys and gals...I'm here again. Very before than I expected, indeed...they send me and all the others of my contingent at home in an unexpected and, at least by me, unrequested week-end licence. There's a reason for this...and it is not a happy one. I'm sorry, but I cannot say anymore now. Something bad happened, not to me or to any of my friends, and all of us were sent away for a couple of days. Anyway, I'm quite happy to be here again. I'll post more later, just a question now: those to which I had sent that famous email last week (meaning Winterwolf, Kit&Doug and Niamhgold) did receive it? I checked my email, but there was no bouncing warning...I know Emambu and Gside (BTW, Gside, I'll reply to your email later. Just a "You're welcome" for now...:) received theirs, so...

More later
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milano, Italy
Friday, November 17, 2000 02:37:11 PM
IP: h255-20-193.mi2.albacom.net

*Valentine pokes his head in again, looking relieved and annoyed*

Well, my bro isn't dead... Turns out he hasn't even left Harding yet, since TODAY is their official last day of classes... So I ruined my evening and got crappy sleep for nothing. Since he IS my brother and I love him dearly, I'll try not to kill the silly ass when he gets here... :P
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 02:29:03 PM
IP: 209-223-253-90.ausa.net

Enters ripping up images of donkeys. As you all know the judge has ruled in favor in Cahterine Harris's descion to uphold Florida LAW, that right Law. The Law made the deadline not she. Now becaues of this Gore's represinitives are going to try to overturn the election

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE. I Am sick of these spoiled brat who try to change the rules casue they arent getting thei way. We had plenty of recounts and guess what Bush one. Deal with it people Bush is our next Presidnet.

Wou know why Gore is doingthis? He lost and he cant understand it. in his mind he was BORN to be Presidnet. In a 1999 News Magazine he said "I'll do anything to win the election." I just dont believe this. Entity GXB please tell me you don't support this latest development of the Gore Campaign.

Catherine Harris>>> I admire this woman. She told the demobrats to stop throwing their temper tantrum and accept defeat. I want to see her battle Hillary Dillary on American Gladiators.

Buffy, Pendragon and Angel... All I can say is I loved them all.

********************Southpark SPOILERS.*********************
Did anyone see this?
Garrison is now teaching Kindergarten where now a 3 year old Ike((Who is supposed to be a genious)) attends. Garrison holds a class Elesctio and it becomes aa tie between Filmore and Ike. One girl named Flora was undecided but she finaly voted for Ike. Filmores side demanded recount after recount and then the absentte kid came in with his vote in one hand and lung in the other
Very funny and very good episode.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Friday, November 17, 2000 01:48:05 PM
IP: user-37kaosg.dialup.mindspring.com

*Valentine entors looking worried*

I'm scared... My brother left Harding yesterday, and he was supposed to get here last night. When eleven o'clock rolled around last night and no Jonny was to be found, we disconnected the net so he could get ahold of us if he were in trouble. I stayed up till four in the morning waiting for him.
No Jonny.
I woke up this morning, and we still haven't heard from him. To make matters worse, I know the girl he was hitching a ride with; she gave me a ride up to Harding once or twice, and she likes to drive very, very fast. Like ten-twenty mph over the limit.
So my brother goes MIA during a six-hour car trip, at night, with a reckless driver. We haven't been able to get ahold of the girl's mom, so that's no help...

*Goes back to worrying in a corner...*
Anonymous
Friday, November 17, 2000 01:30:44 PM
IP: 209-223-253-154.ausa.net

**lain enters, chuckling at all the dander that has arisen..**

Some Adam and Eve stuff.. well, of *course* God would have had to make man and woman, that is no reasoning for Him thinking homosexuality is "wrong". Being God, one would think He would have foreseen the terrible impracticality of making a creature that couldn’t reproduce itself…
And this story.. I don’t recall the original, so I am only going on what you have written but perhaps I am not the only one who thinks that a bunch of guys trying to bang down a door does not really qualify as an "advance". And I would hope that God would be more upset about the notion of rape in general, more so than the act of homosexuality. (and when was the last time anyone ever heard of a whole city of men who were gay?? I don’t think rape in any form has anything to do with love so I don’t see the point of using this story as an argument..)
And unless I am very much mistaken, the Bible was not written by the hand of God, so how can anyone be sure that the people who wrote the book didn’t put their own ideas in there, too, along with the ones they claim God to have given?

Taleweaver>> I don’t really think that I expect very much form America, or anyone else for that matter, other than the admission that what is "right" for one may not be what is "right" for all. I don’t think people should try to force their opinions on others. If governments are creatures of convenience, then the least they could do is admit that and stop pretending to be so righteous… I like to question and debate, I like it when people question me, too, because re-evaluation is part of what defines me right now. I am not set in stone.
I should point out that I am not trying to convert anyone to atheism (?? If such a thing can be said) Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and, if they can be justified, then more power to them. But I don’t think people should accept blindly what it told to them. Only by questioning can the real truth be discovered. (I qualify this statement, dutifully, by saying that this is what I believe, not what is the Truth)
"say not I have found the truth. Say, rather, I have found a truth. Say not I have found the path. Say, rather, I have found a path.."
Love,

lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Friday, November 17, 2000 01:14:47 PM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

*Warpmind enters, cracking his knuckles, grinning savagely.*
Well, in about 4 short hours, this netcafe I'm in will become a slaughterhouse... massive DeathMatching will ensue. I intend to provide more pain and suffering than can be found in three dictionaries and an encyclopedia. ]:)

Gunjack Valentine: Sure you could do so much damage barehanded... a successful attack is often no more than 10% skill and 90% blind luck. ;) Oh, and I never believed your *given* name was Gunjack... it just didn't occur to me that it might be one of your roleplay characters, or something... :)

Lain: Too many Mariuses? Never! ;) (Thanks for the e-mail; will respond properly, as soon as I know how to...)

Wilek: Try reading "The Dream-Quest ot Unknown Kadath". And I appreciate you not going at my groin... ];)

*Notices Hentai Tentacles debate, then flips up a small, handheld satcom. "Sir? I think we may have some strays here... merely monitor their actions and report back? You'll have the file on your desk by noon tomorrow, Sir. And good luck with the new staff members... hope this batch lasts longer..." He then snaps the satcom off and glances around. "What?"*

Mary Flanders: Your birthday coincides with a full moon? Then have a howlin' good time. ;)

Representative of the Crown: Um... out of sheer curiosity, what's your point? As I figure it, the British population is *thins* close to abolishing their entire Royal House, so why then bother with the Americans? ];)

Doug: Yeah, we have those "proportional force" rules here, too... actually, it's "equal force" rather than "proportional"; pity, really... Imagine the delightfully psychotic interpretations of the law if it were "proportional"? ]:)

Gside: Um... *ponder* DC? Now, if I could just remember which is AC and which is DC... *thinks fiercely, then snaps his fingers and pulls up a walkman battery, frowns at it, then sighs.* Nope, it didn't say... it's the opposite of regular batteries, though.

Well, that's about it... later, gang.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, November 17, 2000 12:37:28 PM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

Hey all, I actually got some time, so I thought I'd take a stab at replying to some of the stuff.

I'm doing this based on Idea, not on Person, so I won't be using names. Very much...

America: I am not going to defend America's action, or lack thereof in any previous time. American leadership had its reasons for what it did. Some of those reasons were very good, and others of those reason were very bad. The fact remains, however, that the rest of the "alies" were losing WWII until the "Sleeping Dragon" awoke.

On same sex marriges: God says they are wrong. Not religious leaders, not specific people in religion. God. If nothing else, the fact that God made one man and one woman <or two women if you believe some of the less believed lore> should tell you that what God expects is for a man and a woman to be married <and they shall become one flesh, ect. ect.>. To illustrate the point, look at the story of Sodom and Gamorah <sp?>. God says he doesn't like them, and tells Abraham to get Lot out. Abraham bargains with God until if he can find 5 good people, the cities will be saved. Two of God's angles, as men, go to Lot. That night every male in the city tries to beat down Lot's door so they can rape these men <remember they didn't know who the angles were.> Lot says no. He begs the men of the city to leave these two alone. He even offers his two virgin daughters if they'll leave these guys alone. The men say no. End result? Sodom and Gamorah are destroyed. If God didn't mind homosexuality, why would he mind the advances of these men? He might have rebuffed them, yes, but they were destroyed because every man in town, ALL OF THEM, came to have homosexual relations with these two strangers.
Now, there are homosexuals I like. They're my friends. I let them know how I feel, and I let them make their choices, because it's not for me to condemn them. If God decides to, that's His job. I personally have no problem with them.

On making babies: That was very much what Catholosism and the Eastern Orthodoxy said, most modern religions aren't that big on it. Yes, we feel that good little Christians should make more good little Christians, but we also see the scripture that says, "It is better if a man never takes a wife." The point being it provides less distraction from following only God, and less preasure in other areas as well.

Witchcraft: That also came direclty from God, not from religion: Suffer not a witch to live. This comes not from the policy of making babies but from the first commandment: I am the Lord your God, you will have no other gods before me. Not much room for negotiation in that one. Remember, at that time, magic seemed to work. Auguries, Witches, and even prophets of other gods seemed to have at least some power. The Egyptian wise men from the book of Exodus had the power to turn sticks into snakes, and water into blood. Not as well as God <via Moses and Aaron>, but still, they had the ability. God really didn't like witchcraft.

On judging: This one requires some defining, since the word "judging" has both a denotation and a conotation. Its denotatin is to make a judgement, to discern between two things. Its conotation is to condemn. I prefer just to say "judge" or "condemn," it limits confusion. Therefore, not only do we <as Christians> have a right to judge, we have an obligation. We must discern between "right" and "wrong" in everything. The moment a religion <either one person personally, or the "religion" collectively> lets stops doing that, is the moment that religion begins to lose it validity. I must constantly judge, not only myself, but also my bretheren and those outside my religion. Condemnation <or Salvation> on the other hand, comes from God. I am supposed to judge, while refraining from condemning. "Brother, I love you, God loves you, but what you're doing is wrong. Let me help you stop," is what we need to be saying. I will admit that there are those who condemn the people and not the actions, and they are as wrong as they claim anyone else is, but it is my responsibility to point out to those I care for when they are doing something I think will send them to Hell.

Now, I know I didn't get to everything, but it's nearly time for me to go to work, so I can't stick around. If there is anything specifically you want to know about, post just that, or e-mail me. The link is at the end of the post.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Friday, November 17, 2000 11:47:34 AM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Greetings all,
Christine> Bundle up. It is cold in SoCal. And a little advice from a vetern of many outings to the Happiest Place on Earth. At 1 o 'clock, find a place to take a small nap. This is especially true of kids. Come afternoon, people start getting cranky, by 4 and 5 they're just plain rude. I'd recommend the Great Presidents on Main Street, it's inside, its relatively quite and not crowded. And don't go on Rocket Rods if the line is outside the building. Total Rip! Three hours in line for a weak 3 minute ride. Take the Autopia, or Space Mountain or even the Submarines, but don't waste it on the Rods if you can help it.

Religion debate> *blows on referee whistle* OK, time out! Flag on the play. What exactly are people arguing about? As close as I can see, someone comments, other respond, then others join in on a point made in the response. Where is this going?

Revocation of Independence> I got this a couple of times in my mailbox. Got a good chuckle. Speaking as the oldest brother of two who where in football, that kevlar body armor is needed so you can really pound into the other guy. I wouldn't target the French wholesale, just the punks that decide French grammar, the Academie. They are the true enemies. (Conjugate this!)

Lain> As another cynic, I have to ask, what do expect from America or any country? Governments are creatures of convienence. For the longest time, America didn't jump into WWII because it was convienent to do so. Especially that cash and carry deal they had with the Allies. And when it was convienent to call on patriotic duty to get people to work, they did so. If you're looking for moral fortitude to come from government, you're looking in the wrong place. That usually comes from individuals. Individuals I hope will become leaders someday. Unfortunately what we're left with are the least capable people. Personally, I don't care about the Flodia count because from the looks of things the American public is the loser. Out of 250 million people, these two are the best we could come up with for the presidency. Got to say I'm seriously disappointed.
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Friday, November 17, 2000 11:13:31 AM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

Goodmorning, all :) ooo what a tasty discussion we are having :):)

*********JUST FOR THE RECORD*********
I don’t hate the Americans, not at all. Some of them are even my friends (right back at you, Az ;)) Yes, international opinions of America may not be too great but you have to ask yourselves, whose fault is that??
********END JUST FOR THE RECORD************

Now for some tasty WWII stuff..
Canadians went to fight in WWII still hungry from the depression. In the beginning, they had nothing but a few leftovers from 1918, but they still went to fight because they believed it was the right thing to do. Where were the Americans then?
On 1 May, 1945, RUSSIA entered the ruins of Berlin, not America. Six days after that, the German army surrendered.
It should be mentioned that it was months later, in early August, that two bombs were dropped in Japan that obliterated Hiroshima and Nagasaki and needlessly killed many innocents.
If it is America’s "obligation" to "help" other countries, I question who gave that authority to decide which governments are oppressive (or is it perhaps more a matter of wanting the world to be like them, I wonder..) (geez I can be cynical..) Sometimes, a nation may cry out but more often than not, a country like America may just step in, uninvited by the majority. Canada has fought in Korea also, and many have been killed on peacekeeping missions. America is not the only saintly member of the UN to sacrifice lives.
As for the Declaration, it was stolen almost word for word from the French..
On to the topic of Gays.. now, why is it that gay and lesbian couples are frowned upon in the Bible?? I think you will find that it has much to do with the church trying to convert new members and one way of doing this is to have lots of kiddies. Last time I checked, homosexual couples had rather a hard time with this. The Bible doesn’t forbid it because it is "wrong" per se, it just does not make children and is therefore not useful to the spreading of the faith. (incidentally, this is the same reason birth control has been controled for so long, and why "witches", with their knowledge of herbs that could, among other things, help prevent pregnancy, were hunted and killed. But in the modern world, I think most humans would admit that there are too many of us already, and maybe we should be cutting back a little.. it this way, if nothing else, a homosexual couple definitely has the most environmentally friendly relationship that can be made ;)
Azrael>> Don’t worry about making me feel small and insignificant, I have already recognized that I am and have no need for allusions of grandeur..

That’s all for now,
Love (as always)

lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Friday, November 17, 2000 10:48:07 AM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

::raises an eyebrow at Greg:: No insult but why do you feel the ned to attack Churches? I will admit freely that some have ben involved in persecution, and that none are perfect, but are any of us qualified to judge them? Last I checked, that's God's job... I'm LDS... our members were hunted and killed... at times by the government that we were trying to live under peacefully... does that mean we condemn everyone in the government at that time and never consider that there are human fallacies that rule outside any religion, government or organization? If you want to jump all over someone for intolerance, you can't single out churches... I agree with whoever said that churches only have jurisdiction over religious weddings... I've got several friends who are homosexual, heck.. came to find out the guy I took to my senior prom has decided he is.. ::shrug:: so? We're people.. and people make mistakes. God and Christ do not hate anyone.. they love everyone.. but they condemn the act in scripture.. PEOPLE take that and run with it. I'm not God, and i'm not in a position to judge.. I have to live my life to what I feel is right and that will gain me the salvation I want. Everyone has that right.. including the churches you're accusing.. you want to condemn them for their opinons and that they feel that they needed to speak out... that is their right in this country.. you're not required to agree with them.. but let them have their opinion in peace, and you can have yours. I don't want to be accusatory back, and if I'm picking this up wrong.. I apologize.. but your argument struck me as off.

::shrugs and wanders back to the sidelines to see what else pops up::
Aingeal - [aingealkelly@yahoo.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 10:46:52 AM
IP: 207.42.162.18

Doug> But would the Master settle for being a mere second-in-command? We'll have to see what happens. Maybe he'll run with Spike, or challenge him in the Presidential Primaries. Though rumors are that if Spike wins he'll make Adam Secretary of Defense. We'll just have to wait and see. I do think all the candidates will be running again in the 2004 election though.

Azrael> Then I think it is time for the Churches to change. They need to adapt to the world, and at least in this country, people are becoming more tolerant and less bigoted. There is still a long way to go, but it's happening. And I'm sure that Jesus would not hate gays. THe Bible has man's finger-prints all over it. I applaud Pope John Paul for acknowledging evolution as a fact, and hope that he keeps bringing the Roman Catholic Church to the 21st century. And they must realize that there is nothing wrong with homosexuals. They are wrong to treat them in such a manner.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 08:31:49 AM
IP: 166.109.2.138

Got something of a chuckle out of the Agent of the Crown's eagerness to revoke the Declaration of Independence. Actually, though, I wonder whom it's going to antagonize more: loyal American patriots with the "Minute Man" spirit, or British regulars here (such as Ed) who might have a few things to say about the "cultural stereotyping" issue such as the assumption that the British eat nothing but steak-and-kidney pie. :)

* A FEW BEHIND-THE-SCENES COMMENTS ON PENDRAGON *

DOUG - Thanks for pointing out that bit about "morning/evening" for Nigel's knighting. I haven't checked yet to see if the "morning" error is there, but if it indeed is there, thanks for reporting a slip-up that must have gotten past Edits (sometimes I think one thing but write the other).

One or two brief comments:

1. The inclusion of James Seabairn/Mordred as Morgana's partner came actually quite late during Breakdowns; we'd spent much of the three months that we worked on "Pendragon" trying to figure out who Morgana's accomplice ought to be and most of the ideas never seemed to work out. (At one point we actually considered the notion of Morgana having secretly abducted Nigel Sefton and substituted a simulacrum of him who would be the one getting knighted, with the switch having already been made before Mary even got home, but discarded it after somebody brought up that it sounded a little too much like the HARDAC episode of "Batman:TAS". I haven't seen that one, but I believe that it involved a robotic double of Commissioner Gordon being substituted for the real one and a pre-Batgirl Barbara Gordon teaming up with Batman to rescue the real Gordon, so there would indeed be a parallel there). At last we hit upon the idea of Seabairn/Mordred, and it now strikes me as so appropriate that I'm amazed we only came up with it at the last moment.

2. Morgana's impersonation of Mary was something that got in a lot earlier, of course, and was something that always struck me as quite a logical course for us to take with her; after all, the reason why she hates Merlin and Arthur so much was because of Uther's seduction of her mother disguised as Gorlois, so it occurred to me that she would want to pay Merlin back, at least, in the same coin.

3. We hope to have a Pendragon Season Four - I've got some ideas forming for it already, although I can't say anything much about them at present. But I, at least, definitely don't see "Pendragon" as over yet.

* COMMENTS END *
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St.Louis, MO
Friday, November 17, 2000 07:21:48 AM
IP: 216.87.46.242.dialup-stl.primary.net

I really need to get used to Netscape 6's drop down dialog boxes. On the off chance someone cares, today is Dark Cyan.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Friday, November 17, 2000 02:17:13 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

In other news, I ate half a pomegranite today. I couldn't stop at six pips, but I wanted to keep some connection to the myth.

Mary Flanders> <<I found an anime website that has episodes from different series>>: Please share. I need to complete my collection and they shut down Scour Exchange.

Fire Storm> <<Number 1. But I knew I was going to say that>>: I too have the amazing power to read my own mind. Though it doesn't work all the time.
<<was that a version from the 70's?>>: Not a clue.
<<His voice seemed higher than the version I (nearly constantly) hear on the radio>>: There's a joke in there somewhere, but I don't want to look for it. But how do your equalizer settings compare on your mp3 player versus your radio?

Aingeal> <<movies are good.. but sleeping before class is as well>>: Nah, sleeping durning class is better.

Niamhgold> <<Not so much candy as toys, little packaged ones>>: I rather thought so. Though don't they also come candy flavored? I wish I knew the answer to that.
<<I wouldn't relate you to objects or equations but more to the general color purple>>: I've always liked posting in Lilac. But then there's another reason for that.
<<purple is usually considered an intelligence-procuring color>>: I've alwasy thought it was more wacky. It and green.
<<congrats on your 100th mp3>>: It wasn't this time, it was actually the Fitzgerald. Or Ring of Fire depending on whether you count Gargoyle's Memories.

Kitainia> <<Doug and I have narrowed the choices in there down to three>>: Can I still laugh now?

Warpmind> <<the power supply runs at 230V over here>>: Isn't it also DC?
<<You found the Worms Theme?>>: Yup. The composer also has his own website and a section of mp3.com. Incidentally, I learned how to download streaming mp3s off mp3.com.

Gunjack> <<why don't you just give me a nice papercut and pour lemon juice on it!? We're CLOSED>>: Let me 'splain. No no, that would take too long. Let me sum up...
<<I missed you on the sub-atomic level>>: Nice, but I really felt like making a metaphor. Not sure why.
<<No clue who that is, and I don't think I wanna know>>: Yes you do. Mido Miko is the current matriarch of the Miroku ninja clan, a practioner of the sexcraft jitsu, and general magnet for tentacles.
<<Tips his chair over laughing>>: I try.
<<Go ahead and slap him, Ma'am>>: Yes, yes, slap me hard, I deserve it, I've been a bad boy... Anyway.
<<You have a remarkable resistence to Fruedian imagery>>: If I can get a kielbasa out of it. And also somewhat in general. never doubt the power of kielbasa
<<I was assuming that space was static. How can they tell it isn't?>>: Everything is red shifted (that's everything in every direction, meaning all reality is going away from us). And besides, if it was once a single point, how did it get to be so large?
<<And here, it seems, is where Science starts feeding on itself>>: Well, since Planck time is the smallest time before all the funky quantum stuff happens, sure we couldn't figure out what's going on then.
<<Um, that's VERY confusing>>: Yes it is. Do you know what it's like to take a course where they have to stop because no one has anything else to teach?
<<And apparently, naughty tentacles>>: Well yes, but there's also other fun stuff going on. For example, Fubuki knows this trick where... well, that can't be said here.
<<Well, that puts a whole new spin on it, doesn't it?>>: Of course. I'd assume one is much more fun than the other. Depending on your frame of mind.
<<Could you chop that down to a third grade reading level?>>: Probably not. I'm not even quite sure just where I was pulling that from. Though A Brief History of Time might be reccommended reading.
<<I don't know what YOU'RE talking about>>: The parallel postulate is something Euclid said: One line has only one other parallel line through a given point, and the two lines never intersect (or something like that). The funky part is that no one has ever been able to prove or disprove it. If it was proven, Einstein would be in a whole bunch of trouble.
<<Huh? You've completely lost me>>: Most time lines of the Big Bang give a graph of the extimated radius of the universe against time.
<<Created by what? This seems to just keep pushing the question back further>>: I forget. I remember a drawing of a whole bunch of cones incide a larger cone... But for your second point, essentially, yeah.
<<Remind me of that before my next formal occasion>>: I think that is one of those things that stick with you. Once you think of them like that, you can never go back.
<<I thank you a hundred times. :) Oh, and the Wormsong is awesome>>: You are quite welcome, on both counts.
<<Here's to hoping you hang around for another year at the least>>: Thank you, and I shall try my best.

Eh, exam earlyish tomorrow. Must have sleep. Will catch up more later.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Friday, November 17, 2000 02:15:47 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

On third thought, I'm too tired to think... ;P
I'll post tomorrow...
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 01:15:37 AM
IP: 209-223-253-92.ausa.net

Begin Part 2!

SJ: Aw, rats! I got so fired up about your show and now you won't get to do it? <sighs> Such is life, I guess. Sorry to hear about that, I'll miss the intelligent television you would have undoubtedly provided. Oh well. <sighs> Hopefully whatever project Greg's working on now is going to be just as good. I agree with you on the election. It is nuts. The way things are, I'm hoping Bush wins, but only because Kit and I have the most fun RP plans if that's the case- let's just say him and Gore are gonna be settling things the way they should have in the first place. If it turns out we're not gonna do things that way, I'll e-mail you and Green Baron what we were planning so you can laugh. :)

**BUFFY, ANGEL SPOILERS**
Except for the "walk-towards-the-camera" bits, which I found too long and unnecessary except as poster fodder, very good episodes this week. Buffy had some great flashbacks of Spike's origin and history, with great comedy bits and very well-done costumes and fight scenes. Liked the subway one especially. Spike also had great dialogue with Buffy, I got more than a few laughs and bits of applause out of his lessons. Was fun watching Spike develop throughout the episode too, his origin was both funny and in-character. Great acting on Marsters' part in doing that origin and all throughout the episode- I was actually almost rooting for Spike when he went after Buffy with a gun at the end, Marsters' emotional delivery and the script were that good! Real nice touching scene between him and Buffy when all was said and done, wonder how it's gonna have an impact on the rest of the season. Maybe, just maybe, Spike and the Buff-ster can be friends. <shrugs> Especially great insight into Spike's psyche in this episode, Todd hit the nail right on the head with the bit about him and Buffy's relationship and the side of him she brings out IMO. Hope we see more expression of that side as the season goes on. Nice Dawn and Harmony bits in this episode too, and I was laughing out loud at the chaos demon (pity he was so different from in my fanfic, but his personality was unexpected). Liked getting to see Drusilla and the Boxer Rebellion (which I recently studied in Chinese History this semester) too, and the scenes with Riley. I think Xander, Anya, and Willow should have had a bit more involvement in his battles, though, and should have been more in character- they know better than to be chomping down chips in the graveyard at night! Overall, great story to Buffy once again, and great main episode plot and character development. Also great acting on the part of the leads. Hope they keep having such things in the episodes this season, and improve the subplot quality some. If Whedon does that, he'll have struck true gold- and he better, the subplots in these past couple eps have not been that enjoyable. <sigh>

Angel had some great character development in it too, and excellent acting in both flashbacks and modern-day action. Especially liked seeing Darla's origins and how tragic a character she has always been and especially is now. Angel had great dialogue with her as always, and there was good pacing of scenes too. Really liked seeing their past and present relationship further developed, especially enjoyed the scenes where Spike and Drusilla made appearances (the gypsy one had me laughing harder than Kit. Was also laughing at the Angel-and-the-Master scene, great seeing the Master once again. Great Buffy villains, especially when well-acted, are always welcome to make reappearances). Liked the development on Lindsay a lot also, this guy is really shaping up to be an interesting antagonist. And Manners made a good sinister arch-villain too, I was genuinely surprised by his having orchestrated Darla's escape as yet another test of Lindsay's loyalty. Can't help but wonder if Wolfram & Hart's plans for Darla are finished yet. I doubt it. <grin> Missed Cordelia, Gunn, and Wesley this week, but the development on Angel and Darla was entertaining enough. Especially in the scene where he rejects her plea for him to make her into a vampire. I too liked the line about her damning him. :) Wonder if she'll come back and try asking him again, I heard a rumor she might in some future episode. We'll see. Hoping for some good Kate development next week, she better not get killed off. Angel should have some decent development too. Can hardly wait. :)
**THESE SPOILERS END**

Mary: Happy Birthday soon! Hope it's a good one. Thanks for letting us know the date. Hope you did well on the test, Kit and I were praying for you. Glad your leg's healing, and you came off the crutches. Bet it felt great to walk without them that one time. <grin> Hope the bandage will be gone soon too.

GXB: Thanks for the update on the Interfandom Presidential candidates, I too am sorry none of them won. Oh well. Wonder who Spike's running mate is gonna be. I'm hoping for the Master. At least we'll have an entertaining Vice President for once. ("One day I will rise to the office of President! In the meantime, I shall hide in these DC maintenance tunnels, infecting the Senate with the Order of Aurelius! Ahahahahahah!") Heh.

Gasper: $ Welcome back to Earth! Hope you enjoy it. One note- Beelzebub is not in charge of Hell. Just his own domain and now what once belonged to Mephisto. Many other demon lords have their domains too- Synatia, Gothmenes, Dispater, Bel, Deavik, Astaroth, and so on. Asmodeus, who took over the demons after the Saint of Killers gunned down Satan a while back, is in control of the whole place. But he doesn't usually involve himself too much in other demons' affairs. He's also notoriously lax in his security measures- witness all the souls who have escaped from Hell recently, including yourself. :) $ And congrats on the snow. Wish we had some here. :P

Welcome to Angelique, Aingeal, and any other newcomers. Congrats to you all on amassing the courage to stop lurking, hope you enjoy this place.

Representative of the Crown: Thanks for giving me the excuse I've been looking for to start the Minutemen back up. It is appreciated. Some of us so-called Americans may be wanting to submit to your rule, thinking it better than ours, but there are those among us who would prefer not to be ruled by a group of egotistical royal snobs your own country has grown to pretty much live without, be threatened with IRA bombing, or have to submit to your crazy demands. Many of us also puke at the very thought of eating kidney pudding, and find being forced to drive on the left side of the road, or give up July Fourth, absurd. You try to dominate us in any way, especially in collecting the so-called back taxes you have imposed without representation, we will kick your sorry English butts right back to Europe once again. This is coming from a distant descendant of the Swamp Fox, mind you, with many good American patriot friends. Expect to have tea dumped into your harbors once again soon, and to be not welcomed anywhere! <rings the Liberty Bell, puts some people to work on updated versions of the Federalist Papers, dons his tri-cornered hat, and in general prepares for the Second American Revolution>

Hmm, to do that, I'm gonna need to get some sleep before doing anything else. I'm pretty tired. Will be back next week with review of 6th Day probably and other bits. See you all then. Everyone have a good life, hope that things go well and are not too interesting. Though interesting things do inspire great conversation. <shrugs> Talk to y'all later!

**RESUME RP ACTION, RAVENS' SAGA**

At the Mall of America's south entrance, beside the piles of destroyed vehicles and Kit and Lorna's continuing catfight, Doug stands ready as Holder laughs and advances on him, stick waving. "Three strikes, you're dead, Elder, remember?" the psychotic ex-security guard laughs. "We're gonna see who's better now, aren't we? One!" He swings the stick, and Doug grins as he dodges it. "Two!" Holder growls, then his jaw falls open as Doug intercepts the stick's next swing with his own nightstick, causing it to split in half. "I don't think there'll be a three," Doug shrugs, then lashes out with his foot at Holder's shin. Holder jumps back and growls, raising his knife. "I still have this, but even without it I can kill you. You're lucky I didn't bring my sword collection!" "You're lucky," Doug retorts, parrying and dodging his opponent's lunges and stabs. "I'd probably break every sword." "Why you little…" Holder roars, but Doug does not let it faze him, instead trapping Holder's knife arm in a judo grip and using the nightstick to disarm him by smashing his hand before flipping Holder over his shoulder and to the ground. "What gives?!" Holder wails as Doug stands over him with a ready smile. "You were a wimp when I found out you told Abel about the knife! You ran away from me! You looked like you were gonna piss your pants too! And now you're…" "Maybe I'm a lot more combat-experienced in this dimension," Doug shrugs. "Or maybe you're really just all talk, or the me in RL's a pacifist. I have no idea. Doesn't really matter, does it?" Holder growls and gets back to his feet, the knife in his other hand now that the hand Doug smashed lies limp and bleeding at his side. "You broke my hand, man!" Holder screams at him. "How the hell did you get so tough?" "I had good teachers," Doug replies, swinging his nightstick and catching Holder in the face, knocking him down again. When he gets up, his shades are broken and falling off his face, revealing bloodshot eyes with veins standing out like cuts. "No wonder you always wore those!" Doug paraphrases Preacher, then steps in and grabs Holder by his shirt, picking him up and heaving him into a display of incense. The psycho screams as the multiple noxious smells trigger his asthma and as he is coughing and retching from nausea Doug picks up his shotgun, changes the battery to a full one in one smooth motion, and fires several shots into Holder's face and chest. "You never had a chance," Doug shakes his head as the psycho dies. "One thing you would have learned had you lived long enough in this dimension- never mess with the Ravens." Wagging a finger at Holder's corpse, he then turns away and moves towards Kit, who is pinned under Lorna as Gus's girlfriend keeps punching her in the face. Suddenly, just as Doug reaches them, Kit lashes out with a snapping upward kick, causing the yelling Lorna to be hurled several feet in the air and then fall back right into a shop window display, moaning with the pain of glass cutting her in several places as she hits the ground and then struggles to get up. "She's mine," Kit growls as Doug helps her to her feet, eyes flashing red. Doug nods, then runs to help Anthony as Kit walks toward Lorna clearly in full bloodlust. "Thanks," Anthony says as Doug pushes the tire off him, looking at Kit and shaking his head. "Something tells me I never want to be the object of that girl's anger." Doug grins and nods, then frowns as he looks up and sees the squad of seven githyanki watching them, who have dropped their popcorn and are now reaching for their weapons and looking at their officer, who wears an indecisive frown. "You know who those guys are?" Anthony asks. Doug shakes his head. "Can't remember where I've seen creatures like them before, but I know I have. And they weren't friendly. I don't think these are either." He points to the weapons the githyanki now all have in hand. "Let's do something about them then," Anthony says, slamming a new clip into his weapon. Doug nods and pumps his gun.

Elsewhere in the Mall, groups of Ravens and groups of assorted jerks meet each other, and combat inevitably results. As a large group of Jaguars speeds into the Mall from the parking garage, Shap, Shauna, Jammer, and Tricia are caught directly in their path. Tricia quickly erects a psionic barrier that the lead luxury auto crashes into. The next three Jags collide with it and are also destroyed, along with the Fortune 500 CEOs within, who scream about UT student protesters and inadequate security as they burn. The other Jaguars start to regroup and swerve around the destroyed ones and Tricia grimaces. "I can't stop them all." "Over there!" Shauna yells, pointing at a PT Cruiser parked in the middle of the hallway for a promotion contest. "Uh, don't we need the keys?" Jammer questions. "Trish can psionically start a car, Shap can do it with a prayer," Shauna reminds him. "Oh, right," Jammer grins. "I got this one," Shap tells Tricia, who nods, erecting another barrier to hold up the Jaguar Motorcade. The four of them then make a quick rush for the PT Cruiser, firing shotgun blasts, bullets, arrows, and psi-bolts as they run. These blasts and the barrier get several more Jaguars, but the remainder are still coming. "Let's go!" Shap shouts as the four Ravens jump into the PT Cruiser and he starts it with a quick sign of the cross. As he drives, Shauna, Jammer, and Tricia continue to fire bullets, arrows, and psi-bolts at the pursuing Jaguars out the windows. Some of the CEOs' bodyguards return fire with their pistols, but find the car a hard target as Shap swerves around every bench, display, info booth, directory, and other obstacle in his path. The Ravens are also far more accurate in their fire, eliminating several of them. "Pier 1 Imports," Jammer quotes Blues Brothers as they shoot, pointing to a store. "Gadzooks," says Shauna, pointing to another. "Old Navy," Shap adds. "Family Christian Store," points Tricia. The routine continues with the chase as the screen goes blank. "B Dalton Bookseller." "Tilt Arcade." "Electronics Boutique." "Radio Shack." "Bank One." "Gem Jewelry." "This mall has everything."

**END RP**
Doug - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 01:13:43 AM
IP: pool-63.52.170.241.dlls.grid.net

**RP HERE, MAKING SOME UPDATES**

In Thailog's secret base, the clone gargoyle is standing in the computer room behind the chairs of CoraXoned and Anastycia13 as they show him the security system. "As you can see, we've fully re-established it, sir," Nasty says. "Thanks in no small part to my coming in and helping. No thanks to that Longhorn Loser Stephen Franks, who didn't seem to really know the first thing about programming a computer." Thailog grimaces, but says nothing. "She gets that way, boss," CoraX tells Thailog. "Just ignore it. If you look here on this screen, I can show you where I think the security problem was. A hacker used a backdoor to get in, it was probably the Ravens' Gubio. As you can see, I've sealed the backdoor and…" He stops speaking as alarms start to go off and frowns. "What is that about?" Thailog growls. "Um…" CoraX gulps, flipping through screens. "The intruders!" Nasty shouts, pointing to a display of Mecord, Senthet, Thicaarn, and Kemel looking around a hallway confusedly. "They're back!" "By the Dragon," Thailog fumes. "They obviously did not give up easily. This time, though, we are prepared." He grabs his cell phone and starts calling his lieutenants and issuing orders. "Donna! Find Gar and tell him he's needed since he seems to know the most about these intruders! Zale! Get your soldiers ready! Kharsus! Prepare a magical stalker in case they flee! Dahak! Dahak!" Thailog roars in fury as the fay does not answer. "Never mind!" he snaps, turning back to his hackers. "Find out how they got back in! At once!" "Yes sir!" CoraX and Nasty reply as one. Elsewhere in the base, General Zale barks a command at the clone soldiers he was drilling and they snap to attention as one. "Alright men, the intruders are back!" he declares. "This time I expect better response! This time we are going to find and defeat them! Form up into squads and move out!" "Yes sir!" the clones chorus, then begin to carry out his commands. Zale looks on with a smile of pride. "These guys are surprisingly much better than my ordinary soldiers," he tells his aide, Major Charleston. "True, sir," Charleston agrees. "Just don't forget we're smarter and have more experience." "I won't," Zale replies, grinning. "Now come on, Matt, let's lead one of the squads ourselves." "Great idea, sir," Charleston concurs.

The display changes to Abdullah's mansion in Turkey, where Tyl36009 is cursing in frustration and pounding his fist on his desk. His computer monitor shows a female figure in a sand-colored chador waving her finger at him with the text, [Payback is a bitch!] Behind her is a Quake score display that reads Gubio 20, Tyl 4. Growling, Tyl tries to get back online and is told that his password is not recognized. "What?" he roars. "Don't tell me she deleted my account! No!" As he continues to fume, the screen dissolves into random text bits and then freezes up. "The Leonardo virus," Tyl growls, recognizing it. "Excellent. Abdullah is not going to like this." In the computer room in the bunker where Gubio, Erin, and Mist are, they are also chuckling along with Hack as they continue to wreak havoc on Abdullah's computers and financial records. "Damn, you guys are cruel," the STRIKE computer guru chuckles. "You made this guy certifiably bankrupt with bad credit, donated his entire fortune to charities sponsoring cancer research and peace in the Middle East, flooded his mailboxes with spam, and crashed his computer systems with viruses. What'd he ever do to you?" "That's a long story," Erin replies with a smile. "Trust me, though, tomorrow we are going to make sure my evil uncle knows who did all this before we kill him." "I'll be watching through the mini-cams," Hack laughs. "You guys better get some sleep." "After we celebrate," Gubio says, looking at Erin, who smiles excitedly. Mist meows in confusion, then yowls and goes running off with her fur standing up, causing the couple to laugh as Hack grins. Their faces turn somber as Queen Noor walks into the room, barely avoiding being tripped by Mist as the cat runs out. The Dowager Queen glances after Mist for a second, then turns to the two Ravens and Hack with a sad expression. "I hate to ruin whatever good news you have," she says. "What happened?" Erin asks, Gubio and Hack frowning. "A great Desert Knight has died of cancer," Queen Noor sighs. "Leah Rabin. We are all in mourning." "She did much for the cause of peace," Erin sighs, lowering her head. "So did her husband, before he was assassinated." "I didn't know they were members," Gubio says. "Many prominent figures in the Middle East are," Queen Noor replies. "Myself and my stepson Abdullah, Prince Ali bin Sheik in Saudi Arabia, Sadat in Egypt, Shimon Peres and Yasser Arafat in Israel, two of Saddam Hussein's children…" "Whoa," Gubio cuts in. "Two of Saddam Hussein's…?" "They aren't all like their father," Erin says, then sighs. "We may have to forgo that celebration now, Alex. I didn't know Leah Rabin, only met her once, but whenever a Desert Knight dies all the others go through a night of mourning." "I understand," Gubio nods, grimacing. "I'll share your grief." "And our chant tomorrow, right?" Queen Noor asks. "That's the second part of the tradition when one of our members dies. We fight our next battle with their name constantly on our lips, showing their spirit that the cause lives on, no matter what." "That tradition I will gladly take part in," Gubio smiles. "Me too," Hack agrees. "Wish we coulda done it for Nick and the other people we've lost in STRIKE." "Do it for them too if you wish," Queen Noor tells him, "if they were worth it." "They definitely were," Hack says, standing up. "I'll tell Ivan and Andrea about this." "And we better tell Bessus, Father, and the others," Erin says, standing up herself. Gubio nods and rises also, then follows his friends outside the bunker as the screen goes blank.

**END THIS BIT OF RP (A moment of silence for Leah Rabin, who fought like a lioness for peace while alive, alongside her husband Yitzhak Rabin and even more fervently after his death. May the dream of peace in the Middle East never die out, no matter how many of its proponents fail to live to see it secured, as we all pray it will be eventually. :)**

Hi there CR friends. I'm back. Once again. <grin> Things are going better, job-wise. I had another big incident Sunday- three guys were tossing around merchandise in the store, harrassing customers, and I was told to escort one off the property- he was doing the usual delaying tactics of walking slow and claiming he forgot where he parked. He ran off the property when I called the latter bluff and asked the manager to find his car on the security cameras. :) Then I called the cops, and they came and arrested the second of the group, the third having slipped out unnoticed. <sighs> On hirees- Warren Walker's gone again, in all probability for good this time. Steven, surprisingly, is shaping up and actually doing his job- apparently getting caught by the manager last week made him get the message. About time. Another of our new people just got himself fired tonight after being revealed as a huge headache who didn't want to do his duties correctly even though he knew how, and wasting all his second chances; and last weekend one of our more senior people went on a drinking binge and thus lost his job- we can do without him, though, and are probably better off. We're surviving. Which is good, since the holidays are upon us, and that's when the stores need us most. <sighs> Don't worry, I'm still gonna do my best to make time to stay caught up in here. On to replies.

King Snarf: Maybe I'll check out Hitman, been looking for a new comic series lately. Thanks for the recommendation. You really oughta read the rest of Preacher, it's worth much more than skimming. Particularly in Starr bits, that guy cracks me up. :) Another great Ennis series is The Punisher 12-issue run he's doing for Marvel right now- Garth is doing a real good job on character development in there, and especially on creating villains who complement the Punisher's dark qualities like Batman's and the Gargs' foes complement theirs- the Mob killed the Punisher's family, he's killed Mafia boss Ma Gnucci's and crippled her; the Punisher fights to avenge his family while the high-class vigilante Elite fights to protect his family and way of life from what he sees as filth invading his neighborhood; the Punisher was once an avenging angel killing sinners for God though he hated being so, the psychotic priest Holy sees himself as the same thing and has come to terms with it; the Punisher goes after typical street crooks, deciding who's bad and who deserves justice- Mr. Payback does the same thing with white-collar criminals and uncaring corporate kingpins; and The Russian is a tough psycho who loves big trouble and makes his life out of creating it (takes vacations in Afghanistan, etc.), which is what the media says the Punisher is. Plus Frank has crazy neighbors, a love interest, a pair of interesting cops bonding as they track him down, and all the violence and carnage he deserves to face. Fun series, real worth checking out. Issue 4's my favorite for this line alone- "It's…bears…" ROFL!!!

Todd: You're welcome for the correction. I too am hoping that Batman Beyond doesn't have the whole Superman thing is a test of Terry- it always seems way too convenient when they do that, and given all that's happened already- the explosions in Metropolis, Warhawk's death, Micron getting crippled, etc. they really should not have it all be a façade. Terry wouldn't be the only one who would not appreciate it. <grins> And don't worry, you didn't upset me at all with the Mordred thing. I just was expecting you to go with Morgana as his mommy, and was a little disappointed. But I got over it. Thanks for your concern though, and the great entertainment of this week's episode- comments below!

Winterwolf: Hope you get more time to sleep soon- three or four hours a night is definitely not enough! But if your work's that demanding…well, good luck with it. I will pray it soon eases up.

Warpmind: Definitely a waste of money. :) Glad the new place is working out well otherwise, hope it continues to be so. And congrats on winning that fight, glad you kicked butt and it didn't have any adverse consequences. Probably good that you just punched him out and didn't use any of those heavy machine tools too, if Norway's definition of self-defense is anything like America's. Here, the force you're threatened with has to be proportional to that which you use to defend yourself- so you can't claim self-defense if a guy comes at you with just fists and you shoot him. You have to be able to prove there was no opportunity for flight or negotiation too. :( Good luck with the injuries you were given, and all the dust and splinters on the job.

Gunjack: I don't like Billy Idol much either. Billy Joel, though, is one of my favorite singers. Listening to Pressure always helps me deal with stress, and Kit already mentioned my fondness for We Didn't Start the Fire. Piano Man is cool too. And You May Be Right, Only The Good Die Young, The Longest Time, and Tell Her About It are great love songs. Though Kit's and my song is none of them- we like Accompany Me by Bob Seger. Who sings great too. :) <shakes head at bachelorhood-related bits> Keep talking like that, I may have to kick you. I too like Mr. Clark a lot as a Clancy hero, he's one of my literary idols. Though he loses to the villains for my favorite Clancy character overall- people like Daryaei, Elliot, Zhang, Yamata, Cutter, Cortez, Sean Miller, Qati, and so on I have both sympathized with and loved to hate. That's what happens with well-fleshed out personalities. <grin>

Green Baron: $ Thanks. Don't worry, we'll kill Gore appropriately. Just waiting to know when- our plans differ depending on whether or not he wins the election, and we weren't expecting this recount. :( <Clinton-Waters 2004> <suppresses a shudder> Please don't scare me like that! <grins> $

Christine: Well, the Dissidents story you did was good enough, though I wish you'd fleshed out Roadhog more as a character and was disappointed somewhat by the revelation about Corwin- after the great chemistry between him and Hippolyta in the last Dissidents story I was hoping she'd come back and they'd be together. Oh well. Good character development on him nonetheless, and on Tormauline and Duval also. Keep up the good writing. As for your work situation, well, I'll be damned. Someone has a job crazier than mine. And you've been doing it ten years! <chuckles> Hope the hits don't keep on coming, glad you haven't been hurt too badly yet, good luck. See Girl Interrupted if you haven't already, I know you'd like that film. And thanks for the wedding advice. Have a good Thanksgiving vacation!

Cat: Welcome! Congratulations on finally getting the courage to step out of the lurking, you look like you'll fit in well here. :) Good luck with those stories, they sound like they have a lot of potential to be great. As for your life hassles, well, all I can say is good luck with them too. They should pass eventually, I will be praying it happens soon. Whatever happens, don't let them drive you too crazy- that always does more harm than good. I could go into detail on why, but haven't the time. Just trust me. Hang in there, new friend. <grins>

Archwolf: I too am sorry about the impending breakup of your fencing team, I hope that you can salvage something from the experience besides skills and memories- maybe you can retain some friends and practice with them every so often? Good luck. $ Welcome back to the RP too. Looking forward to seeing your characters WarFrost and WinterBlade with us soon, but I must warn you- the Mall is full of some really bad opponents we have not yet killed. Gus's girlfriend, a red dragon, Pastor John, Galante and his zombies, Geburah, one really BIG demon, and someone who'll be an unpleasant surprise too- Kit's revealing who it is in her next post. Hope your characters are ready to face all this. <grins> $

Niamhgold: Those grades are great, congratulations! On your relationship issues, well, I really don't know if I can do more than wish you luck. And recommend you don't get with that Serge guy since he seems to find looks more important than personality- always a mistake IMO, and unfortunately one committed by a lot of guys. You'll find someone out there someday, I'm sure- just gotta wait. Or maybe it's that Brian you're seeing right now. I don't know. <grins> Good luck whatever happens. Glad you got to go to such a fun party too. Your friend Reuben reminds me of an RA I once had back when I lived in the UT dorms. Same personality pretty much, and almost the same name too- Rubin Rodriguez. Thinking of the guy makes me miss him. :)

Cherry Blossom: Glad to know you're alive, sorry about the carpal though. Hope the pain of it's not too bad. Hey, at least you get great disability money. :) Okay, sorry, just trying to find a bright side. Good luck, I'll be keeping you in my prayers. Come back soon, if condition allows.

Shadowrider: Farewell once more friend. <sigh> May we see you again soon, and may you remain well. Thanks for dropping by the times you have, very much. Hope that next time we can get the e-mail. I wonder why it didn't go through. <shrugs> Oh well.

Daphne: <grins> With those high grades and SAT scores, you're bound to be able to get some scholarship. Good luck. You're better off asking your guidance counselor where to look than us, though. Sorry.

**X-FILES SPOILERS**
I have to say, I'm liking Dogget a lot already. The episode scripts this season are giving him some great character development, and that's a good thing. Scully got some nice development Sunday night too, and so did Skinner. I'm glad they didn't kill him off, Infinity wasn't the only one freaked out by the sight of his body in the airshaft! :) Also liked what was done with Gibson Praise and Mulder in the episode, I feel sorry about the latter staying in alien custody, but since his character was getting so stale it's probably for the best. Deputy Director Keach is turning out to be a decent new antagonist too, and after this season opener I must say the Bounty Hunter- Bounty Hunters now- are even creepier bad guys. Hope this isn't the last time this season we run into them. Want to see Dogget facing some other aliens too, and have Ratboy and the Smoking Man return eventually. Seeing Dogget and Scully continue to deal with their assigned X-Files should be cool enough for now though, looking forward to some hopefully great fights and more character development next week!
**END SPOILERS**

SOROW: Good luck with those college essays, you have my prayers. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll be accepted somewhere good. Just don't forget to drop in on Kit and me sometime if it's UT-Austin, okay? <grins> We'll keep missing you until you come back.

**PENDRAGON SPOILERS**
Great follow-up to Part 1 and season finale this week, though I did once again really miss the illustrations. <sigh> Hope some can be added in someday. As things were, I really enjoyed all the great character development and revelations in the story. Good script and plot too, and excellent writing on Todd's part. The turning of Braddock to Arthur's side and his finding out about gargoyles seemed a little too easy, but there was good writing involved in it. Liked the developments on Mary a lot, Nigel's reaction to her condition was perfectly in character and the resolution of his problems with it was good too; I almost but not quite had sympathy for the guy, then I hated him again- one possible mistake, though. Didn't Part 1 say his knighting was in the morning? Part 2 had it in the evening if so. Not a real problem, just thought I'd mention it. Great villainy bits with Morgana in this episode, I liked seeing her plot come together and she was indeed frightening and shocking in her impersonation of Mary. Great development of Merlin in that scene and the whole episode. Hope Morgana returns someday, she still has her Connection network to threaten Arthur with for one thing. She's still mad at him too, I'm sure. Sorry to see Seabairn passed on though, I liked him a lot while he was around. Good revelation of his true identity though, and great confrontation between him and Arthur. Wish we had gotten to see pics of the fight. <sigh> Especially liked seeing Arthur's existence get a possible revelation at the end, can hardly wait to see how he deals with that next Pendragon season. Hope Isfet and Morgana come back as villains then, and Powell too. And hope that some more of the Nigel-Mary subplot is dealt with- he still has to find out about Arthur being Arthur Pennington after all, and Merlin. Overall, good episode except for the lack of pics and unnecessary-seeming flashbacks. Have enjoyed this season very much, wish it had lasted longer. But all good things must come to an end. Hoping to soon see more great work from TGS, will wait as long as necessary. :) Thanks once again to the Staff for all their great hard work!
**PENDRAGON SPOILERS OVER, END POST PART 1**
Doug - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Friday, November 17, 2000 01:11:33 AM
IP: pool-63.52.170.241.dlls.grid.net

**Winterwolf peeks in**

Hi everybody! Today I am planning to show you how to perform routine operations on yourself so you can save on your doctor bills! That's right you can save all your money and give it to your doctor so he can repair the damage you did to yourself! ;)

Warning this post is mostly random gibberish for my own amusement!

Gside> Gside wins with the correct answer for the riddle! Nice number work! **hangs Niamhgold's spare pinata in the CR blindfolds you and gives you a stick** Have fun! You want him to have this right Niamhgold? Oh just watch out for the tentacles! :D

Niamhgold> Thanks! I'm almost there! <chicken soup, Jell-O, and flowers> ^_^ You know how to make me feel all better! You're the only one I know that adds Jell-O and flowers for me! **bounces happily** Niamhgold rules! **beams brightly** I feel happy! **HUGS** <give sniffly icky cold to me> How could you? Unless... you haven't been stalking me again, or using the voodoo doll of me again have you? J/K ;D < Not so much candy as toys, little packaged ones...let's just say Reuben is your average, 19 year-old college male> Hmm... Should I feel gypped now? I never got... um... err... a pinata? <Thanksgiving and real food> Have a blast! ^_^

Kitainia> Thanks! Apparently my body has managed to adapt so I manage to keep on going somehow. I think it might be the potent insanity that surrounds me in its prismatic light and I... Oh was I still typing there? Anyway like I was saying it's a complete mystery!

AotN> Hellooooooooo AotN!

Warpmind> Well if you'd like to continue working on it skip Gside's replies to me! ;)

James and Gside> Thanks for the pizza place names! You guys rock!

Angelique> Hello and welcome to the CR!

******WARNING - BFTS RP******

Uriel watches as DPH and crew get out of the car and turns to Winterwolf.

Winterwolf nods and says, "Time for us to make an appearance."

The two of them step out of the ethereal haze in front of the car. "Hi! I'm back and I brought a friend..."

A solidifying sound is heard as the rays of the sunlight capture Uriel in stone sleep.

******END WARNING - BFTS RP******

"The belief that one's own view of reality is the only reality is the most dangerous of all delusions."
-Paul Watzlawick

Off to sleep!

**Winterwolf leaves**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Friday, November 17, 2000 12:58:40 AM
IP: 206.15.120.94

well.. I love going to work.. I miss so much... heh

Entity- <<Are we the Borg now? A collective? I wasn't there for the Garden of Gethsemane, were you? God's routine seems to be to actually -not- give second chances, but to simply wipe the slate clean and try again>> No.. and I'm not implying thast we are. I was also not in the Garden, but given what I've learned through church, and also through personal study and prayer, Christ's suffering there was to enable Him to take upon Himself all the pain and suffering we ever have felt, and ever will feel, and by doing this He paid the ultimate price for us. BY this He covered our butts... we can screw up, and if we feel remorse and ask forgiveness, God forgives and forgets the past sin/mistake, and we get a chance for a fresh start. (btw... if this doesn't make sense, let me know.. i'm typing most of this stuff really late at night)

Rep of Crown- sorry to dissappoint you.. but we won our independance once... despite the delay in deciding future leadership atthe moment we DO currently have a President.. sleeze tho he can be. so... this is just a nice lil note to say... sorry.. you can't take over again... have a nice day... don't let the door whap your monarch on their way out :D (this is all in fun, BTW...)

Wilek Nereus- <<Newcomers> Welcome! Surrender your sanity, and do watch your step; some of the inmates lick. >> cool... glad to know I'm not the only one who does that ::licknip:: and.. uhm... what do you want those of us that came it allready lacking sanity to do? ::grins::

::wanders over and hugs Cat and ArchWolf, and Mecord:: thanks wolfbro for chasing me out of the corner here :)

::turns falcon and perches in the rafters to see where else things go::
Aingeal - [aingealkelly@yahoo.com]
The center for development of mental quirks...
Friday, November 17, 2000 12:42:35 AM
IP: 207.42.162.18

Everybody- I'm going to be out of it for a while. The posts to which I need to reply are fairly lengthy, and my replies will probably be lengthy as well. This would not normally pose a problem, but all I have time for over the next few days is Work. Not even sleep, but I'll make at least a little time for that. Do not worry, I'll reply to you all in due time. And make you fell little and insignificant, too... ;) Oh, wait, I didn't mean to let that last part out. You aren't supposed to know I think you're all insignificant. Oops, I did it again. Aw, man, I hate when I do that... :)

For those who didn't get it: That last part was me just kidding. No offense was ment. Thank You.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:58:41 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Representative of the Crown> The official counterproposal of the Nereus Project is that you enthusiastically scr*w yourself. <<In the light of your failure to elect anybody as President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves and, by extension, the free world, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.>> Seen CNN lately? We did that first. Or didn't you notice the entire Sixth Fleet hovering over the White House? One does not muscle in on the Project's territory without consequences and repercussions. <sends several Fortress VI-class starships to 10 Downing Street> I'll miss Rareware, Are You Being Served, and Dr. Who, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to pound your little pebble of an island into dust. Farewell, chaps. <pushes the button> (I should have done this back when you people excreted Austin Powers. "Yeah baby" my little blue butt.)
:P
This bit of lighthearted random stupidity brought to you by the Nereus Project, manufacturer of time-wasting mental illnesses since 1891.
Baron Administrator Wilek Nereus
Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:50:24 PM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

Now THIS is rich...

<<This announcement brought to you by the Crown Forces, Guardians of the Rule of Law for nine hundred years and counting.>>

It's interesting about the British's use of their Monarchy. Really, your monarchy is only a puppet, for which to knight popular performers and such like Connery and Cain (who deserve it) and to smile and wave every day of the week. Now, if the Parliment had said something, I would consider this an ACTUAL attempt at something. Though you never really considered us independent, and really, I think it's a given we hurt you guys twice, I'm sure we go a third round, make it WWIII and probably STILL come out on top. Like some of the previous posters said, we've got more guns then you. Now, onto some of your demands.
7. I like steak, vanilla pudding, and most of all, The Captain (Captain Morgans Spiced Rum). Sorry, stale beer, hell, beer at all just doesn't get ya toasty enough. Also, you must have gone to Applebee's or some other similar resturant. Try a cafe in the Big Apple and find a NICE waitress, you'd be surprised (General stereotype from someone who's been there only 1 time.).

*Tightens his grip on a blaster carbine, then looks at the message bearer...* Hm...target practice sounds like loads of fun. Dance partner. *Shoots at the person feet, making them jump around.* HA HAH HA! Bring on the Crown Forces, I'll take'm all on!

On a more serious note, Robby and SJ, thanks for the Endless Waltz info. I know the Uncut video comes out pretty soon, probably next week or so, the 21st I believe, though don't set that in stone. In anycase, overall, I was able to follow it well, the only thing that I would have done was Slapped Marimeia a little sooner...hell, I was about ready to. That is, if I was Relena, and I sure ain't. In anycase, it was a little odd at the beginning, when they showed the faux Trowa and the real deal. It was the HeavyArms in the back ground that threw me off, thinking to myself that it was in the shop or something in AC196. But then I saw the Dr. in the back ground and realized it. In anycase, I did enjoy the the remodels of the Mobile Suits, and was VERY impressed with the Scorpian suits (?) they had? I imagine if the White Fang or Oz had those sooner, they'd have really taken all. Kudos to the redesign of HeavyArms Kai and Sandrock Kai. Unfortunately, DeathScythe just DIDN'T do it for me. Tragic. Anyway, that's all on that.

Kit-Thank you BTW for your RP on telling us who was in charge of Hell at the moment. I needed that info. Little bird tell ya?

That's all from me.



Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:27:51 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Azrael> I consider myself to be a Christian (though any who don't consider Catholics Christians can kindly leave the CR and never post again, not a comment to you, but to anyone), and I find some of your comments to be disturbing. While some atheists are people I would never want to meet (John Dewey, Sartre, Camus, Rosseau, Marx, Stalin, Mao), there are many genuinely good people who do not beleive in God, and while I disagree with them, I do not deny that they are good. I do not think they are more noble for being good, because they do not do it out of obligation like we may. Howvere, I do not think less of their good deeds, because they do not worship a higher power. Frederic Hayek was an atheist and also one of my favorite Economists and one of the fatehrs of Libertarianism. Doris Gordon, also an atheist has served as a keynote speaker for the Libertarians for Life.

I have met atheists whom i consider good friends and others who have down right bigoted to me because I am Catholic or because I practice my faith, instead of simply claiming to be one. To put it in proper perspective, atheist run the whole spectrum and gamut of human personalities and attitudes.

As for questions of judgment, I leave that up to God. I do not have the right to judge anyone, though we are all guilty of that.

This is not an attack against you, though I think you shoudl seriously rconsdier what you have said. While good deeds and acts are a manifestation of faith, faith is not required to do good in this world.

Also, the Government is not given any authority by God. Jesus gave his line about Caser and God so peopel would not use his religion as an excuse to violate reasonable but inconveninet tenants of a Government. God really has little to do with most Governments, except one really tiny nation with only one citizen.

GXB> The issue between the Catholic Church and the Holocaust is a complex one and I think you too easily dismiss it. John Cornwell is not the honorable man he appears to be.

As for what happened in Washington, they have no place disciussing it in Washington. Civil Marriages are for the secualr courst to decide. Religious weddings are for the respective religions to decide.

Representative> I saw that joke before and while I think most Americans are foolish peasants, they are stupid _American_ peasants and should be the play toys and fodder for Amercian patricians. At least we never had a "Lord Protector" govern us.

Archwolf> Let us not be hasty. Monarchy is a good thing, as long as they don't rule us. I fo rone want Scotland and Ireland to have Kings. I alse want the House of Borboun revived, along with the Hapsburgs, and I want a czar back, though I think America should remain a Republic, for that is our tradition.

Angelique> Welcome to this Comment Room. I ahve already been talking to your friend, Lain. I just dislike it when people who are in a faith claim that being a good person is all tehy need to do. However, I think the world needs more good people. I however do not consider myself one.

Azreal/Lain> I happen to love my country, but not my Government. It is oppressive in its taxation. It uses social programs to keep a permanent drone class that votes for their benefactors time and again.

America has the big guns, because we are the only oens who will take up that mantle. I do not want America to be the World's Police Force. We lost a lot of lives to WWII, but the war also was a boon to our economy, becaus ethe New Deal could never get unemployment below 11% and it was in reality a failure. While we were fortunate to have FDR as president, especially compared to what other nations had, he was still a tyrant, even though a benevolent one, and the internemnt of American citizens because they were Japanese in origin is inexcusable. Additionally, FDR's Economist Samuelson ushered in Keynesianism that led to the hyper-inflation of the 1970s as well as expansionary fiscal policy that caused nothing but long-term woe.

America should also be careful about certain forays into other nations. As much as I despise Communism, Liberation Theology, the SDS, and the 60s, our involvement in Vietnam eventually lost its noble causes, as LBJ kept us in their and did far more than he could accuse Goldwater of doing, mainly to prop up his own manhood. Lyndon Johnson kept us in a war and didn't supply the soldiers with adequate fighting materials, while he used his Great Society to keep the poor from advancing their lot in life, and he probably had a hand in Kennedy's assasination so he could become President. By far he was the most evil, corrupt man ever to be President, and his VP made Dan Quayle look like Warren Buffett in comparsion.

I do think we sgould give the UN all of NYC (except Staten Island), and most of New England to make up for the back dues, though. Plus, it will have some nice politcial implications, too :)

Gunjack> In response to an older post, the Council of Ncea established the books of the Bible and I recognize them as the premier Christian authority. Nothing short of a Vatican edict will change what I recognize as the official books of the bible. Luther removed Maccabees I&II, Wisdom (there's apunchline in there somewhere), Judith, and I can't remember the two others. All I have is my Confraternity Bible and I can't compare it to a King james Version to get the other books. I think the other ones were Sirach and Nehemiah. Luther also removed the Epistle of St. James proclaiming it to be a Straw Epistle, because it showed a need for works (for without works, faith is hollow, like saying God be with you to starving man, but not offering food), and Protestants later re-incorporated the book. As far as I am concerned that takes a lot of hubris to declare that you can pick and choose what to include in your Bible, but he was a hot head, so that is some excuse.

I do not recognize the Gospel of St. Thomas. The Council of Nicea rejected it after all, along with a Gosepl about Jesus flying, and one where Pontius Pilate jumos into the Tiber River and it spits him back out.

It's getting late. I'll need some sleep. Good night all.
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:22:50 PM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

On second thought, why don't I just start replying to Entity tonight? :)

Sixth post on the way...
Gunjack Valentine
Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:14:15 PM
IP: 209-223-253-142.ausa.net

Lain - Looks like someone else has grabbed the hook too... *grins* ...Oh, and most of this post seems to be directed at ME, not Azrael. Just so you know who to shoot at. ;)
*scans the post*
Well, FINALLY. I was wondering when the other athiests were going to step in. And with logic, no less! To illustrate the point of my responce, I'm going to let the uglier side of my personality out of the box. No need to get jumpy, he's very polite... Just creepy.
*subtly shifts in attitude*
Let's begin.
<<Just a zesty response to your discussion. You're lucky I managed to hold off on this one for so long...>> On the contrary, if you posess Truth, I'm *UNLUCKY* to have been deprived of it for so long... :)
<<I think the general point is that there ISN’T a point to being a good person. Does there have to be a POINT or can’t a person just be good because that is the way they want to be??>> I absolutely agree. In a world without Truth, you can choose to lead a life of sacrifice, of caring for others, of helping the downtrodden. It's totally up to you.
Unfortunately, there's no reason for me to follow your example. You see, Lain, I was born with a Killer Instict; not a horribly unusual trait for males of our species, but one that society tries very, very hard to keep in check. I'm fascinated with Death, and have been my whole life.
Now, if there's no truth, then your choice to help others, your empathy, is as right as a lifestyle can be. But so is my alienation from others, my reduction of the people around me to objects.
Since there is no truth, no worldview is any better than any other. You choose to help others, to see life as a climb where, if all goes well, we can all scrabble our way out of the gutter and achieve some happiness. I see life as a game to be played, and the pieces leave in body bags. Both of us are wrong, but it doesn't matter since there is no RIGHT. Our views may come into conflict, but there's no point in discussions; Why should I stop playing to listen to someone describe another lie built on how they wished the world worked? Everyone's wrong, no one's right, and the words don't matter.
Some day, the Reaper will catch up with us both, and people will visit our graves to see the last resting place of the Beautiful Lain and the Loathsome Valentine. They'll talk about how you inspired them to help others, how you pulled people up from the mire and helped them stand on their own feet. Then they'll point at my grave, shake their heads in horror, and ask how such a monster could even look in a mirror.
But will either of us care? We're both dead and gone, and neither love nor hate can reach us. And if we could, I'd just smile and point to the nearest paper where the headlines decry another senseless shooting, or robbery, or murder, and ask which of our examples won more minds...

*Shudders, and shifts back to his normal self*

Ugh. That wasn't pretty, But I hope it was at least informative. You see, I never claimed that you couldn't lead a good life without truth; I just said that there was no reason to, and there was no reason to force your definition of "Good" on others.
<<I never needed God to think of THIS moral code, I just needed to live.>> I agree that you don't need to believe in God to find most of Moral Truth, because I believe we are BORN knowing most of it.>> I adhere to the same code. The difference is, I see this innate instinct for goodness as knowledge of Truth that we are BORN knowing. The fact that everyone comes to the same basic conclusions by observing the world tells me that the world reflects Truth.
<<...but, having been beaten up, teased and tormented as a child, I decided that I didn't like it and I would therefore not inflict such feeling on anyone else.>> These things that you suffered through: are they Wrong? Is there any instance where it would be a good thing for me to tease, torment, or beat up a child? If you say no, than you are claiming to know Truth, just as I am.
<<Maybe no one has told you yet but… welcome to the world where the government with the biggest guns and most toys rules... That country is called AMERICA so just because you live in it doesn’t mean you should be oblivious to the fact that it’s there.>> I'm an avid student of warfare. Believe me, I know ALL about the rule of the gun and bomb. But is this the way it should be? If you say no, then you are claiming to know Truth, as am I.
<<And if the only reason you are trying to be kind and "good" in life is because you think there is going to be a reward for you at the end of it all, then that is the sorriest excuse for a set of morals that I have ever heard.>> The reward at the end has very little to do with my choice of lifestyles. I love my fellow man because he is a reflection of my Creator. I restrict my killer instinct to computer games and tin cans because I believe all human life has value. I listen to others because I hope that they may help me understand what the Truth is. I live the way I do because I believe it to be right.

Entity, I forgot to mention something earlier. My Brother is coming into town tonight, so I may not be able to respond as often.... Just thought I'd give you warning. If all goes well, I'll reply to your stuff tomorrow...
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:11:11 PM
IP: 209-223-253-142.ausa.net

Aingeal> <<<Dear... this is what the whole process in the Garden of Gethsemane was all about... it's called Christ's Atonement.. it's our "second" (and third...forth..etc) chance to redeem ourselves with God.>>> Are we the Borg now? A collective? I wasn't there for the Garden of Gethsemane, were you? God's routine seems to be to actually -not- give second chances, but to simply wipe the slate clean and try again.

Gunjack> You've REALLY not been having good run-ins with DC.

<<<The problem with this answer is that it only explains why people have condemned murder, not why it is actually WRONG.>>> This was a long time in coming, and your response is an effectively concise one. Like I said, I'm not sure if there is really Truth or not, but if there were (which I'm inclined to believe for some reason I can't nail down) I'd say that the reason murder is wrong has more to do with just our survival instinct. There are, in fact, numerous reasons for why murdering would be wrong, in the contexts of person to person, society, the species, etc. The final conclusion that killing someone else is wrong comes from a long and exhausting proof (speaking in theory). There's more than just that, though. The way I see Truth, it is as subjective as it is objective. It isn't a permanent engraving in the fabric of existence. Rather, it is an adaptable, changing applier to situations. Every situation is different, with different circumstances that make the existence of ultimate Truth so difficult to accept. I get around that by believing that in every given situation, there is a right answer. That above everyone's subjective view on the matter, there is that one view, that one judgment, that is ultimately correct. But that correct answer is only applicable to THAT situation. Now, maybe after awhile, common threads emerge. This would be another example of order from chaos. But if the Truth, from these common threads, does ever carve itself into the fabric of existence, that carving is beyond our ability to reach. It's there only in theory. Like a variable in an algebra equation. Hopefully that has more than a few grains of salt to it...

<<<I'd say it's more a case of pride keeping them from admitting their mistakes, and selfishness (in it's literal meaning) pushing them to persue what they don't (and shouldn't) have.>>> Then we have different definitions of pride. Yours strikes me as being: n. the lack of a bovine sense of complacency; the ability to think and reason put to use.

<<<Huh!? ...I completely agree with the rest of your statements, but how are Truth and God in conflict?>>> *backtracks* Okay, you were saying that "following the Truth would enevitably lead to ultimate suffering" in reference to the hypothetical "God is a dictator" concept we've invented. You asked why Truth should be follows in this case. I answered that it should, because Truth has more credibility than God in this case, since it is obviously above his control, for if it weren't, he would simply alter it so that Truth -wouldn't- lead to suffering, but that "Truth" would actually mean following his totalitarian rule. IMO, if Truth causes suffering, then there is most definitely a conflict there somewhere. Since in following Truth, we're resisting God, the conflict has to be between Truth and God. Do you think that it's Truth's fault, and not God's, that following it would lead to suffering?

<<<Is there a reason why, or is this just a "flip off the firing squad" type deal?>>> Much more than that. You seem to be interpreting it as a "pride" issue; that I can't just go along with what God wants out of selfishness. But it's not that. If I'm before a firing squad, I'm already done in. But where I'm at right now, I'm not yet facing the firing squad. I could live my life according to how God wants me to, and go to heaven, even though that would violate my own personal feelings. So, how selfish am I really being in condemning myself to Hell? How selfish is -anyone- being who condems themself to Hell?

<<<First off, how can something be self-aware without having a personality (ignoring Al Gore for the moment... ;D)?>>> LOL. Well, this is God we're talking about, remember? God can't be defined in the same manner as us. We're self-aware, but who says God is? Self-awareness is the term we've dubbed for organic things. Personality is the result of having a brain; all our genetics and experiences summed up in an essay, basically. Does God possess such a mass of organic tissue? Would his sentience be defined by genes and his childhood? Did God have 'formative years'? No. He's beyond all those things.

<<<Second, how does a "personality" make God subjective?>>> Is this a trick question? If you have a personality, that makes you inherently subjective. What's a personality made up of? Preferences, favorites, viewpoints, likes, dislikes. If you claim that God's personality is a reflection of Truth, that doesn't fly, because then all that does is subjectify Truth, not objectify God.

<<<It seems to me that being omniscient makes him the very definition of OBJECTIVE...>>> You can know about every single kind of potato, but have a personal favorite.

<<<The problem is, if the universe has always existed, then the physical Laws must be temporary. You then have to explain hophysical laws can be formed without help from OTHER physical Laws or from someone on the outside...>>> I do admit your stand wraps things up in a much neater package. A much appealingly neater package.

<<<To my understanding, those Laws are ABSOLUTE. They have no exceptions; If they did, science would be a farce, yes?>>> Well, hell, we're arguing about God and existence. We're assuming nothing. My take is not that the laws are a farce. They hold true within the context they're applied, therefore they are ALL are absolute, to as far as they need to be. I'm simply saying the foundation upon which they're based is really not a foundation, but the appearence of one; not really order, but the appearence of order. Order from chaos. Chaos being the real foundation.

<<<If the layer below the Laws were chaotic, the laws themselves would also be chaotic, and so would all of Nature.>>> Not if the theory is that order (or the appearence of it) inherently results from chaos. Thus, a comparison could be: A layer of cake, chaos. A thin spread of frosting, the appearence of order. Then, another layer of cake, the physical universe we're acquainted with.

<<<Then we should see lots of straight lines in nature.>>> Why can't the appearence of order from chaos be just as imperfect as the reality of order?

<<<After all, compare the probabilities of Nature producing a straight line with the probabilities of randomness producing Life.>>> I don't follow. Sounds provocative, though. Please expand.

<<<Ergh. The explanation I wrote last night was MUCH better...>>> You're getting your meaning across for the most part. Take heart. You've been wiped clean twice now and have come back both times.

<<<This doesn't work, as the energy radiated at the very end of the expansion cycle always will have too much of a head start to ever be recaptured by the extreme gravity of the crunch cycle.>>> NOT if we're talking a self-contained universe. Also consider that we've never observed, in science, the actual contraction of a universe. Who can predict what effect gravity has?

<<<Since the physical laws seem to suport matter and energy and not the other way around, I doubt it.>>> How so? Matter and energy behave in certain ways. We discovered those ways and charted them. Thus we have the physical laws. If they were to be erased, the matter and enegy would still behave the same way, just as it behaved the same way before the birth of the first cell.

<<<This arguement is no more scientific than Creationism, since it relies on a force outside the Universe to solve the quandry.>>> But within the context of the argument, such a "reliance" is necessary, because the existence of something beyond the universe is a bi-product of the argument, and thus becomes a variable that needs to be dealt with.

<<<Maybe God just understands that if he answered some questions, he'd have to answer ALL the questions, and thus keep us from finding the answers on our own...>>> Only we're incapable of that. If we were able to find out everything from where we stand, I'd be fine with that. But that's not the case. God's holding all the answers, and there's nowhere else to find them.

<<<If there were no moral truth, then there would be no reason for me to refrain from certian... activities that really cut down on one's life expectancy.>>> Ahhh, now we get to the meat of it. Let me first address the statement by saying that, just because there's no moral truth, that doesn't mean you can't invent your own. The reason not to do life-shortening things to yourself is -for- yourself. But let's delve deeper. Are you saying that the only reason to follow -any- guidelines of behavior at all is for the sake of God or Truth? And if there were neither of those things, that we might as well revert to animals? The way I see it, there is something more applicable than either God or Truth, and that's the person. That's society. The reason we behave according to some form of order is to be able to fulfill ourselves, and function as a society. Just because there's no cosmic force to tell you that murder is wrong, it doesn't mean committing it is any good for you or society. If you discovered there was no God or Truth, would you think nothing of stabbing me in the back? I would hope not.

<<<"My arguements too are not mine; I am only their formulator. It is the river, not my oar, that carries our boat.">>> Interesting quote. I'd tend to agree with it.

Angelique> <<<If we are carrying on about the whole "God" issue, I have a few things I would like to say>>> Don't confuse our discussing with arguing. I agree with your views, but I'd rather toss philosophication to and fro than merely state it. ;)

Robby> Thanks for that Endless Waltz explanation! It helps A LOT. If only they'd made Endless Waltz entirely focused on their backstories, rather than sidetracked with the lame current-day problem, it sounds like it could've been fantastic. (And thanks for filling in Wu Fei, SJ.)
Entity
Thursday, November 16, 2000 10:31:36 PM
IP: eleoh-cf5k-a.mw.mediaone.net

Lain- The point is not that there has to be a reason to be a good person, but that there is a reason NOT to be a bad person. I'm glad you like to be nice and to help people, but if there is no God, no afterlife, ect., then there is NO REASON why I shouldn't kill someone for looking at me in a way I don't like.

No, for the "America" bit: Yes, America has the biggest guns, and we do pay less than anyone else in the UN, except that we pay more of one commodity that all of the other nations- our lives. The UN formed after WWII in which America ignored the slight Japan had caused to us to fight the Nazis in Europe. We had every right to say, "tough luck, not our problem" and smite Japan, we didn't. No war faught by America since WWI has been directly for America, and in fact, wars tend to cost us, as the winners, more than the losers. It used to be that at the end of a war, the victor recieved repartions from the defeated nation. Now America pays for reconstruction efforts and such. More importantly even than that- I wasn't talking about world politics. The Constitution of the United States <Also the Declaration of Independance> note that at any time, if the people are oppressed by the nation, it is their obligation <not right, not privledge, but obligation> to overthrow said nation. That's why we fought the British in 1776, its why we helped Korea, Viet Nam, and Kuait(sp?). We do not try to influence internal politics in another nation, except when that nation's "internal polotics" can cause a war. Then we show them how much we disapprove. Any other pressure we exert on nations is auxillory to the economic relations we have with them. The next bit is a paraphrase from a Canadian News Paper, an article by a Canadian Writer: No one likes America. When they dove in, losing nearly as many soldiers to the Nazis as the Jews, no one thanked them. When they gave money away to attempt to prevent the spread of Communism <I won't comment about my views on this> no one thanked them, let alone paid them back. Yet when a nation is threatened, when they feel alone, they run to the Americans for protection. Why shouldn't America get a few perks?.

Yes, we have the most Guns. Considering how little we use them <especially in light of how we could use them>, I don't think thats such a bad thing.

Xanatos- The reason the religous leaders "condemned" same-sex marriges is because the Bible does. God says that two men should not lay together the same way a man and a woman do. Now, I know lots of Homosexual people. Some of them are even my friends. I don't like their lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with the feelings, as long as they are not acted upon.

Now, as far as loving eachother. Yes, sometimes attrocities are made in the name of "religion." But more often than not it is those same religions that feed and house the homeless, run hospitals, and other such things. I am supposed to love my brother <or neighbor, or whatever> that does not mean I have to accept what they do. We are even instructed to cut eachother off from the rest of our Christian families if we see eachother doing something wrong. We aren't being hypocritical, we're just letting everyone know how we feel. I myself have had to tell friends that I didn't want to see them until they cleaned up their acts. My congregation has kicked people out in the hopes that eventually they would see what they were doing is wrong. It is designed to be a wake-up call, not condemnation.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 16, 2000 10:28:22 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Well, the Brit's demands look reasonable. At least they aren't asking me to comply with their assinine gun laws...
*Whew*
Gunjack Valentine
Thursday, November 16, 2000 09:58:59 PM
IP: 209-223-253-142.ausa.net

Azrael>> Just a zesty response to your duscussion. You're lucky I managed to hold off on this one for so long..
I think the general point is that there ISN’T a point to being a good person. Does there have to be a POINT or can’t a person just be good because that is the way they want to be?? I don’t go around indiscriminately whacking stuff, insulting people or anything else of the sort. And I am not afraid of being punnished by the government, though I agree all those creeps in uniforms would be unpleasant.. I don't hurt others because that is not what I want to do. I do not want to be hurt myself, and I see myself in others. You might say that this is what Jesus preached this very thing but, having been beaten up, teased and tormented as a child, I decided that I didn't like it and I would therefore not inflict such feeling on anyone else. I came up with that one on my own, thank you very much. I never went to Church and both my parents were/are atheists. I never needed God to think of THIS moral code, I just needed to live.
As to who gives authority to governments… well.. in THIS country, we have things called elections.. but I am beginning to wonder what is going on in YOUR country and maybe some divine intervention might be helpful ;)
Maybe no one has told you yet but… welcome to the world where the government with the biggest guns and most toys rules.. that country is called AMERICA so just because you live in it doesn’t mean you should be oblivious to the fact that it’s there. The US controls the UN, because they won’t pay the amount everyone else does. So the world bows and scrapes at America’s feet because they have the biggest guns (remember the gulf war?? ) and because they think America will support the UN financially if they do everything the Americans want, surely everybody knows that.
You DO live in the world where the toughest take the power, wake up and look around..
I think most politics can be boiled down to what happens in the sandbox in the kindergarten playground.
If there is no God, then it is absolutely true that you have no reason to do anything that does no benefit you directly. But if there is no God, and life is brutal and short and pointless, wouldn’t you rather help someone else’s brutal, short and pointless existence a little easier? Do you need to have a reason in order to act with kindness towards others? And if the only reason you are trying to be kind and "good" in life is because you think there is going to be a reward for you at the end of it all, then that is the sorriest excuse for a set of morals that I have ever heard.

lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Thursday, November 16, 2000 09:58:27 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

Representative><<brought to you by the Crown Forces, Guardians of the Rule of Law for nine hundred years and counting>>You mean Murderers, Rapists, Theives and Oppressors for 900 years.

*Hoists the Tri-Color and goes off looking for explosives to eliminate monarchists with*
Archwolf
Thursday, November 16, 2000 09:51:24 PM
IP: viking202-88.dhcp.csuohio.edu

Azrael> I'm an Atheist and I help people out of the goodness of my heart. I don't need a God(dess) to tell me what is good and what is not. That is for me to determine. I chose not to follow religion, and while I have questioned my own Atheism, being an Atheist works for me and I understand the world quite well.

I read in the paper yesterday that representatives from all the Christian religions got together in Washington and signed a document condemning same-sex marriages. That reall p!$$ed me off. No offense to any religious people in here, but I'm sick of the Churches' bigoted ways. If that upset me, you can't imagine how angry I got when I learned that the Roman Catholic Church did NOT condemn the murder of six million Jews during the Holocaust. I don't dislike Christians, but I hate the organizers of these religions. Christ told people to love each other, and the religious organizations are taking his message and twisting it as an excuse to hate people.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 16, 2000 09:47:49 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

As a representative of the Crown in the North American Colonies, I have the duty and pleasure of passing along the latest decree from Her Most Excellent Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. One of my fellow servants of the Crown has attempted to pass this along, but evidently did not receive the orders in their entirety. Loyalty oaths will be administered at all local Crown Troop headquarters.
Welcome back to the Empire, my misguided brethren. God Save the Queen!
YH&OS,
Will Tatum
4th Coy, Bde of Guards

NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
To the citizens of the United States of America,
In the light of your failure to elect anybody as President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves and, by extension, the free world, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories including New Jersey.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, please comply with the following acts:
1. Look up "revocation" in the now official Oxford Dictionary ($75). Start spelling English words correctly.
2. Learn at least the first 4 lines of "God Save The Queen."
3. Start referring to "soccer" as football.
4. Declare war on Quebec and France.
5. Arrest Mel Gibson for treason.
6. Close down the NFL. Learn to play rugby.
7. Enjoy warm flat beer and steak and kidney pudding. Train waitresses to be more aggressive with customers and not to tell you their names before you eat.
8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday, this has been replaced with November 5th.
9. All members of this British Crown Dependency will be required to take 6 weeks annual vacation and observe statutory tea breaks.
10. Driving on the left is now compulsory - recall all cars to effect the change immediately.
11. Report to our Consulate General in NY - M Wragg - for your new passport and job allocation.
12. Have Meg Ryan report to Prince Andrew's Bedchamber.
13. Add the Royal insignia to the top of the Washington Monument - and the Queens Christmas speeches to the Lincoln Memorial.
14. Stop referring to the World Series of Baseball and instead call it the National Series of USA, Cuba and Japan.
Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
This announcement brought to you by the Crown Forces, Guardians of the Rule of Law for nine hundred years and counting.
Representative of the Crown
Thursday, November 16, 2000 09:37:03 PM
IP: 192.62.106.206

Angelique- <Being a good person or living a useful life is not dependant on God or his existence. > But if there is no God, and therefore no afterlife, what point is there for me to be a “good” person. If nothing is going to happen to me after I die, why should I not do just whatever I want? If your answer is “the Government tells us what we can do” then who gives the government that power? Jesus said, “Give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s” and Paul (I think, it may have been John, though) said that God put the earthly governments in place. Failing a “higher power” then all that a government has to back it up is “hired power.” A government, therefore, would only have power so long as it had the biggest gun (or the most small to middle-sized guns.) I don’t even want to think about a world where anyone can take power just because they’re tougher and we just have to accept it. At least most governments now days nod towards “justice.” There are some that don’t. They say “I’m in power ‘cause I’m tougher than you.” We call these governments “Dictatorships,” they’re considered bad by most polite company. So I ask you again, if there is no God, why should I do anything that does not benefit me directly.

Before you get offended, this is just discussion. I just want you to think, not to give “cut and paste” answers. I would not normally have even added this section, but I’m not sure how deep you planned to jump into this discussion, and I really don’t want to offend you this early. Later, maybe, but not just yet… :).

And yes, Gunjack, I know you said something similar earlier, but I felt it bore repeating. I've also felt about this way for a long time. Well before you posted the reply to this effect. So I'm not plagurising <sp?>. So there. Pthbbbbb. :P
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 16, 2000 09:09:43 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Warpmind> My B-day is on December 11th. The night of a full moon!!! >:)
Mary Flanders
Thursday, November 16, 2000 08:52:30 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

Lady Corax> <<Hey, buddy! Long time no see! Glad to have you around. :)>> Same to you! ^_^

Mary> <<<<beating up DC>> thanks. ^_^>> Glad to be of service. ^_^ <<Well people looks like the news was false about my ankle being better. I went to the doctor today because my foot is getting more bruised and is still swollen and it still hurts a bit. Turns out, I have a torn ligament!>> Oh gads. >:/ Get well soon...<doesn't know whether to kill DC or Sli Sludge for this; does both> MRI> Glad it turned out well. ^_^

Kitainia> <<Your tank-driving bears actually work for you?>> :) They're mercenaries of some sort; they tend to work for the highest bidder, so I figured I'd better take them on board before someone else did. ;) <<Wow. I must borrow them sometime. <grins>>> I'll arrange it. ^_^

Newcomers> Welcome! Surrender your sanity, and do watch your step; some of the inmates lick.

SJ> <<If any of you need me for anything, I'll be making passionate love to Ralph Nader.>> Which reminds me; my gerbils have gone missing. If you see them, contact me. <<This wouldn't happen if I was King. Because all of the elderly would be safely placed in their work cam......I mean *leisure* camps. Trust me, they'll love it there!>> Ehh, my preferred solution will be cloning, genetic engineering, and mind transference technology. For about the price of a low-end luxury car, one can trade in one's body for another with less wear and tear. Stuff like fur, exotic colors, and extra appendages will be options, but they'll cost extra. <<It's finally time to iniate the Nereus Project. Wilek, I'm ready, willing, and able. I have the firearms, the duct tape, the industrial jar of mayonnaise, and I'm ready to GO.>> <Mr. Burns voice> Excellent. >:) Report to the target area (our first mission will be the messy death of a Mr. Lieberman) and await further orders. >:D <<Gargoyles. And big-bosomed babes. And a few giant robots, for the Gundam junkies. And ME of course!>> Curiously enough, all those things are present in my ficverse (except the second; my women tend to be rather balanced, proportionwise...I wanted a few BBWs, but the divas had other plans). Maybe we can collaborate? ;) <<Then again, Fred always creeped me out a little. Train to Make Believe Land? Dude must have dropped a LOT of acid back in the 60s.>> What's ironic is, he's an ordained minister. <<Alas, the world will not be seeing the genius that would have been "Sevarius Jr.: The Animated Series".>> Dang. <schedules an orgy of violence>

Shinigami> <<You know what I regret? I regret that four years ago, when Bob Dole was running he didn't show one iota of his spark, wit and incredible intelligence.>> Favorite quote of his: "There they are: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, and Evil," referring to a gathering of ex-presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Richard Nixon.

Winterwitch> <<I may be a beginner in Wicca, but from what more experienced Wiccans say, yes, there is feedback.>> Ah. Thanks. :) Hm, I shall have to cancel that spell of spleen bursting...

Robby> <<Picked up some of McFarlane toys anime line today.>> Me too, actually; someone named Vash the Stampede. The glasses were a nice touch. ^_^ <<The detail is FABULOUS, but the characters have *no* poseability.>> Welcome to McFarlane's world. His figures tend to sacrifice poseability for detail (I think the ultimate expression of this design philosophy was the Spawn 5 figure...best-looking figure ever, but zero poseability). I don't mind (the excellent Ozzy Osbourne figure has the same problems), but it can be annoying for the newcomer...

Gside> <<What do you think about Square going for an increasing online component? XI is supposed to be omline only>> Note that I didn't include it in my list of the PS2's decent games. <<Go to www.download.com , search for "worms" and they should be in the first few entries. I'm not sure if they put out a demo for the original.>> Thanks. ^_^ <<Oh, no. This is much worse. Much, much, much worse. It involves a level of pervsion that is best flushed from your memory.>> Hm. Well, since a greater level of perversion than the eclair has never been in my memory in the first place; it'll be easy to flush. ;P <<This summer I moved from a 233 to a 900 MHz.>> Woah. O_O <<Really? I'm not really into FPSs, so I don't really know what the sysreqs are like for them.>> I forget what Quake 3's were like, but they were high...<<But how soon until you get around to adding that second hard drive?>> Never. Massive hardware upgrades like that are what took down my last computer. When I'm ready to take that step, I'll back up important stuff with my CD burner and go out and buy a new computer. :P <<I keep two browser windows open and keep changing from one to the other as I write my post.>> I tend to write my posts in Notepad; I've lost way too many posts by doing them directly in the submit form...<<Bad enough it's piped through a recreational area.>> Ye call that recreational? It makes a mess and dumps addictive hormones into the brain, often at the same time. Recreational indeed. :P <<I say it's because they have a national morpheme.>> Eh? <<Though I would say it is as addicting as wang.>> [Wilek starts to ask, then thinks better of it.] <<[Worms MP3] Your wish is my command. How's one with narration, and the main theme in the chorus?>> <downloads and listens> OMG. OMG!! OMFG!!! <worships> <<So you're actually a large breasted gargoyle who pilots a giant robot?>> Given Dad's other proclivities, nothing would surprise me. <<there is a certain time period before which we cannont determine what happened (called Planck time, 1.35x10^-43s). This also means that the universe official came into existance when it was already one Planck time old>> No, it means that before the first Plank interval, things were happening that we cannot determine. ;) <<Formal is easy.>> Easy for you to say; I can't stand suits...the closest I could come to formal would be a Kefka costume (black fur coat, red and white makeup, more psychotic than usual demeanor).

Daphne> <<sweet! as my first official duty, I'll extend the Smithsonian to include a museum of animation.>> YES! <high-five> I knew you'd be a great arts administrator, but this is *extremely* impressive. ;)

DPH> <<he does not ever want to admit o eing wrong at all, even when confronted with the truth. He ells my namee, and I ask 'what' before standing p becase I do not feel feel like getting up for a few minutes to see something on tv and sit down down again. He elled my name thrice and I asked "what" thrice to figure out why he wanted me so I can figuree out whether or not I needed to get up. Now, he wants an apology for me yelling at him asking 'wjat he wants' before I got up. Time-out, I have back problems and am trying to rest my back as long as possible.>> >:/ 'Idiot' is too kind a name for this guy...<<My dad locked out of the computer room because I refused to stand up when my back was hurting me.>> What the...?! <shakes head> Do you have any way at all of moving out? <<An upset DPH enters the room after an attempting choking to death by his idiot dad for refusing to give him the key to the computere room.>> :O <grr...> Can't you sue him for that? <<mail.com has decided to flood its users with full page ads that open a new browser window. So much for going there.>> How will you continue to get your mail there? Anyhow, www.evilemail.com is a good alternative...<<Ok, I am saying this once and only once: anybody who attempts to block me from attacking DC will promptly be removed until my revenge on DC is complete.>> No need. [Wilek releases a cloud of nanites specifically calibrated to affect only DC. In short order, they reduce him to a fine pink mist, along the lines of that one Itchy And Scratchy cartoon.]

Jackal> <<Can't tell her nothing though, cause... "when you have sumthin kickin inside you and you push it out from the head of ur d*ck, then you can tell me what I put in my body." I mean, I dunno... I don't. She is ignorance in it's purest, incarnate form.>> To say the least...she reminds me of DPH's dad...

Entity> <<I'd just as soon do away with statehood.>> Ehh, they do provide convenient location reference; it's easier to say "I'm from Michigan" than "I'm from the drafty bit between the sticky bit and the Great Lakes". ;P

Winterwolf> <<Now it looks like we just need a crafty plan to eliminate indoor smoke from messing with our systems! I'm sure you have something in the works already! :)>> :) My pre-alpha plan is actually complete. Nothing too subtle, though; first I use a water gun, then if the smoker doesn't take the hint, a shotgun. ;P <<Actually I believe the tentacles came from Wilek first.>> Actually, they came *after* me first. ;P <<shatter their remains to the wind>> Hm...

Gunjack> <<Happily... :) Send 'em over anytime...>> Working on it. ^_^ <<...*theological* intrigue? What the heck does that mean? *Gods* plotting against each other? o_O ...Cool! 8D>> It would be, but I think there's only one god in Xenogears...haven't played the game, though, so I'm not *certain* of anything about it. :/ <<Remember, it's only to be used when in Anime Mode...>> Eh? <<I got halfway through the Garden fight before I had to give the game back to the friend who loaned it to me. I still say the soldiers should have stayed in their suits while assaulting, instead of just using them as transport...>> I think they were trying to take over the Garden; for that, they'd have to get inside, and I'm not sure the techsuits could fit in the windows...<<Haven't played a Psi yet, but I DO have a rather interesting gameworld called "Psihunters" that I've got sitting on a shelf...>> Sounds kewl. ^_^ <<C'mon, just use explosives...>> The skyscraper in question is the Eyrie Building. <<Well, yes and no. I've discovered, since that post, that Milkshape has some REALLY interesting quirks that can make your life Hell...>> Hm. Maybe I should stick to sending commissions, then. ;) <<Yup. ;D ...Well, the same engine, at any rate. Since that post, I've added three more TCs to the stack (a Road Waffles-style shootemup, a steampunk/horror weastern, and a nifty little steampunk/arabian nights bit that I started work on tonight...>> Oh, these models are for mods? Heh, I thought you were working on just plain PPMs... ;P <<My main complaint so far is that the engine won't allow anime cutscenes ala "Lunar"...>> What about that video file that plays when Q3 first starts up? Is there any way to do something like that in game? <<I *think* it was either Sega Saturn or Jaguar...>> It was Jaguar, then; the Saturn was a CD system that isn't emulated anyhow. ;P <<The download is, but after a month you can't save any more...>> Gods...the inventor of crippleware should be castrated with a cheese grater. >:/ <<You forgot MGS2...>> There's a reason for that. I didn't much like MGS. <<Lemme get this straight... you guys are *complaining* that good games cost less than crappy ones!?? What's wrong with you? CASH IN! :D>> Well, in my case, my problem is with what they cut to get that cheap price point. I have the very first edition of The 7th Guest. Back when the 486-33 with a 2X CD-ROM was state of the art. Anyhow, this edition of The 7th Guest had *really* cool packaging and came with a little booklet containing very interesting background information about the game's plot and characters (and a foreshadowing of the sequel) and a video tape (they were still using VHS back then O_o) about the making of the game. Try fitting THAT into a jewel case. :P Besides, sitting in racks and bargain bins doesn't give them the attention they deserve...recently, I found RivenDVD (the entire game of Riven on one DVD-ROM; a big improvement over the original 5-disc version; the whole reason I stopped playing that game was because I was sick of disc-switching :P) in a bargain bin for $9.95...<<I've been writing all these posts in defense of God... While listening to Metallica. Isn't that against the rules or something? ;D>> Not from my point of view, but then, I greatly enjoy the soundtrack to The Omen. <<Have I missed something about Bush? Did he grow a third eye while I wasn't looking?>> Actually, yes. Anton, stop playing with the resequencer. <<What does it mean when the INSIDE of an apple is bright red?>> Uh oh. <<Is there a way to transfer the RPG to someone else?>> There is the DexDrive, but mine doesn't work... <<The apostles all ended up martyred one way or another, mostly in REALLY Wilekian ways>> O_O' Should I be honored or terrified? <<Easy for you to say, but you don't dream the way I do... *shudders* And my guns never seem to work in my dreams.>> You're lucky. I have nothing but nightmares. Sort of. <<Right. And I heard a WB suit has approached Pistoff about a "Pistoff's Children's Hour".>> [Wilek gapes beatifically, grins maniacally, giggles insanely, and frantically begins making calls to his contacts.] <<What EEES thees? Are gringos falling from the SKY!?>> In this particular fandom, you get all kinds of weird things falling from the sky. <<Mine all turn into fatalistic orgies of death.>> Yours too? Mine invariably involve my characters getting sucked into some kind of conspiracy and having to kill a lot of people to get out...<<Position self on roof of elevator, wait for target to enter, kill lights, kill target, stop elevator, pull body onto roof, duct tape body to shaft wall, enter elevator, leave normally.>> Woah... O_O <worships> <<Nope, a very current episode of what goes on inside my head.>> And THAT is on MY "random lines I must include in my stories" list, alongside "It's been one <censored> of a night if I think hallucinating would be the lesser of two evils," "Him? He's a great bunch of guys," "You're boring. Die!" "It's been lovely, but I have to scream now," and "A normal person doesn't steal pituitaries." ;P <<<<"...except a nice MLT- you know, a mutton, lettuce, and tomatoe? When the mutton's nice and lean...mmm, they're so perky; I just love that...">> "And thank you oh so much for bringing up such a painful subject. While you're at it, why don't you just give me a nice papercut and pour lemon juice on it!? We're CLOSED!" :D>> Am I missing something? <<I nominate myself for the position of Benevolent Dictator... :) Or if that doesn't work, I'll just toss my vote in for Wilek's evil schemes...>> :) We're currently working on getting the R'lyeh spaceworthy again so the Xothi provisional government will be disposed to helping out with the takeover...<<I've got the "Mimicking movies" bit, and I've gotten a little practical experience from sparring with(read "being beat up by") my buddy Jeff. I doubt I could do that much damage, though... o_O>> Heh...I wish I had any training; just about all my experience comes from mucking about with my lightsabers and Fred Krueger glove...I can kill a lot more people in a position of command. <<You have a remarkable resistence to Fruedian imagery...>> Him too? For some reason, I've never been able to speak Freudian unless it was *really* blatant (and I'm talking the Schwartz here)...<<Could you chop that down to a third grade reading level?>> As below, so above, I think. <<82% stable.>> Amazing.

Shadowrider> Welcome back (again)! ^_^

Warpmind> <<Well, zoogs are... small, furry, and only found in Lovecraft's Dreamlands... dig? ]:)>> Ah. Thanks. :) Which book are these in? <<I'm not sure what happened, but HE had the knife, I was unarmed, and I sustained no further injuries... he wound up with two broken teeth, a sprained elbow, a dislocated knee and a fractured rib... I think I went into some sort of berserker fit, but... :|>> My GODS... O_O' <<why my groin has felt rather stretched recently...>> Won't even go there...

Mecord> Welcome back! ^_^

Cherry Blossom> Welcome back! ^_^ <<My carpal tunnel is killing me, I can't even take freaking notes in class now>> Oh no! :( <strangles Sli Sludge with his own ripped-out wrist tendons> Hope it gets better soon...<hugZ> <<Oh yes! and now Hudson is taking over GFW and he banned me from s8. *rolls her eyes*>> OMG...it's worse than I feared...<checks his monitoring equipment in an ominous manner>

Fire Storm> <<Hmm... it's just the whole thing about women actively competeing. The tearing of colothes... :)>> But what's the point of the tearing of clothes? Waste of good clothes, I think.

Lain> <<You know, I am getting kind of upset with everyone beating on poor Mr Disconnect..>> Trust me, he's earned it. <<He just wants attention>> Attention like this? [Wilek rams a patio umbrella up DC's arse and opens it.] ehhehe <<I will take responsibility for the actions of DC, so if you have any further problems, feel free to take them up with me, as I now assign myself the position of DC's guardian..>> I could have fun with this... ;) Religious views of life> Very amusing. :) I seem to remember seeing Wicca (if $h!t happened once, it will happen twice more) and Voodoo ($h!t doesn't just happen, someone dumped it on you) versions...

Traveler> <<'Til the blood on your sword is the blood of a king... 'Til the blood on your hands is the blood of a king..." *smacks himself on the side of the head* *grunbles* Freakin' song lyrics stuck in my head...>> Ooh...what kind of song is this? ^_^ <<I'm surprised I haven't heard a peep about THIS little piece of recent info... The knowledge of which I speak is of course the fact that Transformers: The Movie is now available on DVD....>> Ehh. I have it on my computer; no need to bother shelling out $20 for something I've already acquired for free (and put on the same CD-RW as the whole second season of Beast Machines, thus using less of my rapidly diminishing shelf space). ;) <<HOW in the name of all that is sweet and good in Odin's beard>> Odin must have just had lunch. <<And speaking of Cthulhu, you DO know that there's a company working on a PC game using... I think the Unreal engine... based on big green himself and the Lovecraftian universe...?>> I thought that was discontinued? <<Those must be some damn big cockroaches.... have a flame-thrower.>> Actually, I've never really had cockroaches...a fly here and there, but no cockroaches. Thanks for the flamethrower, though. ^_^

Caliope> Welcome back! ^_^

Todd> <<Just what ARE Hentai Tentacles, anyway?>> Umm, Hentai is Japanese for 'perverted'. I use hentai tentacles as a CR representation of real life, because encounters with both hentai tentacles and real life tend to be non-consensual and victimizing.

Lynati> <<BBBBBBLLLLLLLAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!! "Yukoned Bea...."!!!! $%#@$^%^ !!!>> Ye gads, that thing is like a canister of anthrax. ;P This long after its creation, it's still destroying people...it's only a matter of time before it attains sentience and goes on a rampage. Glad I've stocked up on paranuclear devices. ;) Duct tape incident> :O Gods...when will you be killing them all?

Cat> <<First, I have this problem of starting stories and writing plot outlines that I never finish.>> Agh, I have the same problem in spades...I have three stories started that I can't finish...I've even redesigned my site, but I haven't bothered to advertise it since there isn't an appreciable amount of new content...<<Second, anybody know good ways to hide bodies?>> Acid and cement. <<Might I make a request? *watches the room obediently nod* BWAHA! POWER! ok hi sorry it gets to me sometimes.. um, As I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted by the voices in my head *insert Stabbing Westward lyrics HERE*>> I like you a LOT. Just thought I'd tell you that.

Aingeal> <<I CAN"T ACCESS ANYTHING!!!!!!! if anyone knows an easy way to circumvent Iprism filtering.. please let me know...I'm going nuts... it labels TGS as "adult" and thus blocked!!>> Gads... >:/ Why do people use filtering software? It never works right...<<as to hiding bodies.. best way... DON'T KILL THEM TO BEGIN WITH?????>> That's no fun. :P

Kyryn> <<It's a very small black hole. It actually belongs to Okami. It's supposed to be in use to power a weapon that destroys solar systems.>> A singularity engine? Kewl. ^_^

GXB> <<He feels it is time for vampires and demons to have a voice in the federal government.>> What about the Camarilla?

AOTN> Welcome back! ^_^
Wilek Nereus
Thursday, November 16, 2000 08:51:18 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

AotN>Well, that's pretty accurate. Way back when I was still mezmorized by Gargs, I tried writing a Gargs fanfic. My main character was named "Mary Flanders". She was Goliath and Demona's lost daughter and she married a human when she was rather young. I chose "Mary" because I thought, "Hey, (Demon)a and (Angel)a, why not a biblical name to go with Goliath's?" I chose Mary because I originaly planned for her hybrid daughter to be the uniter of the two races. "Flanders" I got from recently watching the newer version of "Moll Flanders". But, that fanfic was doomed since I think it kinda sucked. :P
Mary Flanders
Thursday, November 16, 2000 08:50:36 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

Work stuff > thanks for the concern, folks, but it's no big deal ... all things considered, as long as I've been in this biz (just past the ten year mark now), I've had an amazingly lucky tour of duty -- knock on wood! Among my co-workers, I've seen a nose broken in the breakfast line, a scalp split by a hurled padlock, a wowser of a bruise caused by a swung guitar, two attempted sexual assaults (on the same woman, the poor thing!), and more. If the worst I've had to deal with is the coffee, the cops not showing up that one time, and getting doused with an entire flung half-gallon of milk once about eight years ago, I got no complaints. Still and all, if I ever get around to writing my memoirs of working in the residential psych field, I'm gonna call it "Another Night in the Monkey House." Which is insensitive as hell and will doubtless bring NAMI down on me, but if I think about it too seriously, I'll be depressed and burnt out. Keeping a sense of humor and perspective, as well as being a cast-iron callous bitch, is my way of getting by ; )

In other news, Becca and I are departing on Sunday to visit Mom for Thanksgiving. We'll be gone for a week, which will include a visit to Disneyland and the G2001 Promo Trip to Loscon, as well as finally getting to meet my year-old little nephew! I will probably be checking in now and then from Mom's computer as she has finally been dragged into the modern era, but in case circumstances don't permit, I'll say a pre-emptively early Happy Turkey Day to all who celebrate that particular rite of gluttony and familial harmony ; )

Christine
Thursday, November 16, 2000 08:19:38 PM
IP: 15-151.009.popsite.net

SJ: Ack! Wish I'd known about that problem sooner than now. I didn't save a copy of the e-mail. <sigh> It's okay, basically it was just the first two scenes in my last RP and a bit requesting you and Robby to approve them, just being sure they didn't conflict with any of your plans. Robby got back to me, and I knew you were online that night, so I assumed you had seen the message- I took your silence as approval when time before bedtime was running out (I was very tired that night) and I had to post. I of course did that little bit to you begging your forgiveness in case of anger on your part- hope there is none. <grimace> If so, you still have my apology, and I will always wait for your approval from now on. Hope the Mephisto scene, which affects your characters but not immediately, doesn't conflict with any of your plans. Thanks for the explanation.

Be back soon.
Kit
Thursday, November 16, 2000 07:32:54 PM
IP: pool-63.52.167.193.dlls.grid.net

*Valentine enters wearing grungy mechanic gear*

Added the CHC's suppresor, and I'm about to start on the jelly-beaning... :)

Angelique - Good to meet you! *tips his hat* <<If someone believes in God, they can follow those principles to lead their life as they wish. If someone does not believe in God, they can use what they learn and their own morals (as passed on to them by their parents and/or mentors in life) to do the same. Of these guidelines for life, religion is one choice, there are many others. Being a good person or living a useful life is not dependant on God or his existence.>> So you say... But is this statement True (True: spelled with capital "T", means Absolute Truth)? This is roughly what Greg a week ago, and I layed out the apparent flaws with this idea Last Saturday. No one has pointed out ways around them yet, but you're welcome to try...
The post time is Saturday, November 11, 2000 03:21:54 AM of last week. :)

Back to the models!
Gunjack Valentine
Thursday, November 16, 2000 07:05:24 PM
IP: 209-223-253-136.ausa.net

*Lynati slips in*

Gunjack: That's the theme to MASH??? (It's in one of the issues of Sandman; I'd always wondered where it was from.)
...You obviously have never played "Dust in the Wind" backwards. ;)
"Bye Bye now! good luck storming the castle!"
"Do you think it'll work?"
"It would take a miracle." ...heh heh...


...this has been a very short day. I accidently set my alarm for 7:30 PM instead of AM...I missed my morning class and woke up just in time for Foundations...which ended up being an hour long discussion, and then dismissal (!) (It's usually four hours long, and we've only been let out early once before.)
I'm sick, so I went back to bed. I got up a short while ago for dinner, came here, and will be returning to Cradle of Blissful Healing after I type up a few things.

*Lynati exits, yawning*


Lynati
Thursday, November 16, 2000 07:04:30 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Here's Wu Fei's bio stuff, from a handy dandy Gundam Wing guide:

Wu Fei is a young man from the Chinese Dragon Clan of the L5 colony. An excellent fighter and mobile suit pilot, Wu Fei is devoted to the concept of justice. He believes the weak should be kept out of war and that only the strong should fight and win. He also has little respect for women. Wu Fei specializes in hand-to-hand combat, and is very skilled with a katana. He is very solitary and has little to do with the other pilots. He flies the Gundam Shenlong (later Altron), which he has nicknamed 'Nataku'.

*Wu Fei's Episode Zero is a startling one. It turns out that his colony was founded by exiles from Earth that OZ was afraid would rise against them. Also, it is tradition in his colony for those in charge, like Wu Fei's family, to marry young. Wu Fei was married at the tender age of 14 to a spirited and feisty girl named Meirin, who fancied herself a great fighter and reincarnation of the Chinese Warrior God Nataku. Wu Fei himself was a scholar who cared little for his undisciplined wife and her concept of justice. Needless to say, their marriage was a rocky one. All of this changed when OZ decided to stop waiting for the inhabitants of L5 to die off peacefully. Apparently, they discovered that Master O had set up shop there and had a Gundam. OZ decided to send a biological weapon there to end its problem once and for all. Wu Fei was asked to pilot Shenlong, but refused. Meirin took up the challenge and flew the suit herself. Wu Fei changed his mind about fighting when he saw that his wife was in trouble and flew to her rescue. It was too late, however, as she was already dying. Before she was shot down, they were able to save the colony together. Meirin died in Wu Fei's arms and named him as the only one capable of flying Shenlong… he was Nataku, not her. Wu Fei decided that Meirin was Nataku all along and that he would fight in her name and for her justice.

Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Thursday, November 16, 2000 06:55:29 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

**GUNDAM WING: ENDLESS WALTZ STUFF**

AotN- Actually, Endless Waltz had BETTER editing in the English version. They ADDED information that helped explain things, and the voice acting was done better. Endless Waltz didn't make any sense, because well... It didn't make sense originally. (And if they had shown an uncut version late at night like they did with the series, the lines involving the words "Hell, damn, death, and God" would have been left in, but we only got an afternoon version.)

However, the books *did* explain everything properly. So, for those who are curious and want an explanation, I'm gonna do my best to EXPLAIN Endless Waltz... (It's been about half a year since I last was exposed to this info, so I'm a bit fuzzy on some details...)

In the year 195 AC, the part of OZ, namely the Trowa Barton foundation (the cousin of Treize Kushrenada)was putting together a plan to destroy the earth. Titled "Operation Meteor", it relied on the Gundams, and crashing a colony into Earth. However, the 5 Gundam pilots we know, Heero, Duo, Trowa, Quatra, and Wu Fei, (Zero, Two, Three, Four, and Five respectivley. Lady Un is One, Zechs is Six, Noin is Nine, etc... Notice they all respond to their Gundam number, and even leave a space for Mercurius as 7 and Vayeight as 8...) all caught wind of this, and independantly , with a bit of counsel from the scientists who built the Gundams, STOLE the Gundams and changed the operation. That's about where the series picked up, and never really dropped any hints about any of this. (Since Waltz WAS an afterthought...)

A couple years later, the Gundam pilots managed to throw a monkey wrench into just about everything, peace had come on Earth, and Quatra sent the Gundams into the sun. Treize Kushrenada's daughter Mirimei (Who can't really be explained, seing as how she was 8 or 9 in Endless Waltz, and Treize was only in his mid twenties when he died...) started up the ORIGINAL operation meteor, havoc was caused, and Quatra caught up with the Gundams, etc. etc. (Don't ask why the Gundams were upgraded. That was solely to sell more toys. Also, don't ask how Relina's hair managed to grow from shoulder length to waist length in one year, that was just a bad oversight...) The main plot fairly well explained itself, it's the backstories that make things confusing, since they weren't explored as in depth as in the books... So, one by one...

Heero- His backstory we mostly got. He used to be sorta happy, and then by accident on a mission, killed a little girl he had met earlier. What the animation didn't really cover tho, is that the girl looked EXACTLY like Relina, which is why Heero could never bring himself to kill her in the series...

Duo's backstory didn't get hit upon much at all in Waltz, tho his is one of the more detailed. When he was growing up, he was an orphan raised in the church of Maxwell. Due to being an orphan, Duo never really experianced a family life, but does long for one. (Pay attention to his conversations with Hildy, some of them make a lot more sense once you understand Duo thinks about being a family man...) He had a best buddy, and they were always a duo. Duo got into a bit of trouble because he refused to let his hair be cut. And then one day, well, things went bad, (I think it was an OZ attack... Like I said, its been a while.) and his friend died. So Duo took on the moniker "The God of Death" (or "the Great Destroyer"). Changed his name to Duo Maxwell. Later, Duo found out about Operation Meteor, and tried to destoroy the black Gundam, Gundam 02. He failed since the self destruct mechanism was removed, (and apparently never put back in...) and then stole the Gundam, which he named Deathscythe, and imprinted his dead friend onto it. Hence the reason he keeps calling the Gundam "Old Buddy".

Trowa actually *IS* Katherine's brother. He was seperated from her at a VERY early age, so early on that he never even learned his name. He met Lady Un at one point, which is why he knew what buttons to push around her later. He found out about Operation Meteor when the real Trowa Barton was killed. He took the name "Trowa Barton" because it covered the fact the real one was dead, and he liked the idea of having a name. The fact that Katherine calls him her brother when they meet back up is sheer coincidence, and likely due to the fact she regrets losing her brother, who she probably thinks is dead.

Quatra- Not much to tell about him. He's adopted, though I don't think he knows it. (Which is why none of his family looks like him.) Was raised a prince. Stole Sandrock for the same reason the other Gundams were, to stop Operation Meteor. (Personal speculation only, his "sister" knows he's adopted and is in love with him. Watch how she acts around him in the one episode she's in.)

Wu Fei- Actually, I honestly don't know what his story his. I know he has one, but I didn't pay much attention since I don't really care about the character. AH well...

I hope this clear some things up. The anime really should have been a 5 parter, it could have covered everything then. (Tho they REALLY shouldn't have created Mirimei, since her age defies logic considering how old Treize was...)

ANy other questions I can try and answer, but no guarantees...

**END ENDLESS WALTZ STUFF**


Mara- SO you got the CD's eh? Good stuff eh? (I should know, I'm the one who loaned Aaron the originals...)

Being nice to Dis Connect- At one point he was split into two halves, and one of those halves was a fairly nice guy. The other half was a super violent maniac who tried to detroy the world and killed my Evil Twin Lonny (for the first time...) To protect the world, Dis Connect had to have his two parts put back together, and he has to be killed occassionally to make sure he doesn't split apart again. And hey, he often has it coming, since he's responsible for *ALL* electronic problems. Besides, our original immortal scapegoat, Kenny the CR Lawyer, went nice and that took all the fun out of killing him...

Robby
Thursday, November 16, 2000 06:35:25 PM
IP: spider-th064.proxy.aol.com

Hi all.. This is my first time visiting from Outer Lurkia..
If we are carrying on about the whole "God" issue, I have a few things I would like to say:
Ignoring the idea of whether or not God actually exists, (I don't believe in him myself) I think the world can survive just fine either way. If someone believes in God, they can follow those principles to lead their life as they wish. If someone does not believe in God, they can use what they learn and their own morals (as passed on to them by their parents and/or mentors in life) to do the same. Of these guidelines for life, religion is one choice, there are many others. Being a good person or living a useful life is not dependant on God or his existence.
Ok.. that's it for not..
Later.
Angelique
Thursday, November 16, 2000 06:14:07 PM
IP: dynrez216-32149.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Gunjack Valentine - Ok, religiously, I am a conservative SBC. When you figure it out, you should be able to rationalize why I am hesitant to say it in this room.

**Note to self, next time I am sick, send multiple holograms in the room that are speaking in multiple languages to convey the message.**

**WORK RELATED**
I sent my application to work full time on 2nd shift. If I get hired before 6 months before G2K+1, yes, I am going. Otherwise no.
**END WORK RELATED**

**DC PROTECTION**
Ok, I am saying this once and only once: anybody who attempts to block me from attacking DC will promptly be removed until my revenge on DC is complete. Unless you bring an anti-portal device into the room and some sorta of device to keep me from teleporting anything in the room, nobody can stop me from torturing DC. However, I will be temporarily nice to DC in hopes he will not interfere in the process of me getting hired in time. If DC does, ________
**END DC PROTECTION**

**BFTS RP CONTINUES**
DPH steps into Gino's East and picks up all the pizzas, paying for them by credit card.

DPH walks into the car and says, "Let's wait until we get to the top of the mountain."

Everyone agrees on the condition that they get to the top of the mountain within an hour. DPH opens a portal and car gently falls on the ground close to the top of the mountain.
**END BFTS RP for now**

**RP related**
Winterwolf, I believe this is where you said you would take it from, right?
**END RP RELATED**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Thursday, November 16, 2000 06:05:44 PM
IP: max1-44.cwy.cei.net

Real Quick...

Kit: The reason that I haven't responded to your email is because, for some reason, Excite Mail has had some sort of a meltdown. I've been locked out of for days now. I've tried my computer at home, and *several* at my university, and on absolutely *none* of them have I been able to sign on. So, if you saved a copy of the email, please forward it to my new address, SJ@thefragile.com.

Trust me, I would not ignore a lovely lady such as yourself. ;)
Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Thursday, November 16, 2000 05:51:22 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Gunjack- <I'd call you a weenie, except this is ALL I DO, and you probably have a life> Don't get me wrong, I love this kind of thing, it's just been so long since I've had one that lasted this long and yet stayed civil that my skill has atrophied some what. Eventually I'll be back up to speed, and then you can send as many as you want my way...;)

David G.> You're right, the Bible never says that Adam and Eve were created immortal, but the point is that if they were, God took it away, and if they weren't, He took away even the possiblitly of them becoming immortal.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 16, 2000 05:00:39 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Reboot/Initiate Logic Hit...
Toast
Ham
Eggs
///Quote:Value3///

When the Devil finished Johnny said
Well, you're pretty good Ol' Son
But sit down in that chair right there
and lemme show you how it's done!
-Charlie Daniels Band, "The Devil Went Down to Georgia"

Aingeal - On second thought, I'm not gonna go through all the arguements... You seem to be catching on quick enough... The discussion is mostly between me and Entity (black text, uses the Xanatos Pic), but Azrael has been hammering us both this week... :D ...Glad to see we ain't the only ones interested!

Entity - Lemme see if I can reconstruct all the responces I lost last night...

First off, I want to give a possible answer to a question Entity raised a while ago. I claimed that Truth couldn't exist without a God to give it Authority, and he put forward the idea that Truth could be a Force, like Time or Fate.
If this were true, then why are things Wrong? Your theory's answer (to my understanding) looks like this.
Question: Why is Murder wrong?
Answer: Murder is "wrong" because an offshoot of the survival instinct has caused Humanity to condemn it. As a result, those who commit murder will be punished by their fellow men.
The problem with this answer is that it only explains why people have condemned murder, not why it is actually WRONG. In fact, I can't see how the concepts"Right" and "Wrong" can exist in this environment; these concepts reject and exonerate behavior, but who is doing the rejecting and exhonerating? The Universe doesn't care about behavior, so I can't see how Moral Truth can be a force...

Entity><<So, they were punished for being too stupid to be suspicious?>> No, they were punished because they refused to accept the (rational) command of God. I can't see how the sin in question had ANYTHING to do with relative intelligence. <<So, if some dolt wants to bloody his knees by following another religion, shouldn't that be his perrogative?
<<Is it because all the bangs and bruises have interfered with you getting close enough to God to qualify for heaven, and thus, by definition, you get Hell?>> The bangs and briuses aren't what divorce you from God, they're merely the results of attempting to contradict Truth. If at any point you decide to turn around and follow God's directions, He would accept you. Unfortunately, it appears to be a "limited time offer"... <<Yet again, we see eternity decided by IQ rather than character.>> What does intelligence have to do with it? I'd say it's more a case of pride keeping them from admitting their mistakes, and selfishness (in it's literal meaning) pushing them to persue what they don't (and shouldn't) have. Neither trait is limited to the unintelligent.

<<Therein lies the conflict. If Truth and God are in conflict, that is a paradox that must be alleviated.>> Huh!? ...I completely agree with the rest of your statements, but how are Truth and God in conflict? o_O

<<but the short answer is that I'd still resist.>> Is there a reason why, or is this just a "flip off the firing squad" type deal? ;)

<<If you had to create a nature for him, then I'd go for: His nature is lack of one. It's like psycho-analyzing God. How should you be able to do that?>> Well, I start by looking at what God says about himself. He claims to be Holy, Just, and Unchanging several times throughout the Bible, and I assume he's telling the truth. I'm not psychoanylizing God, I'm jsut taking him at his word... <<God shouldn't have a "personality," or anything else that makes him in any way subjective.>> First off, how can something be self-aware without having a personality (ignoring Al Gore for the moment... ;D)? Second, how does a "personality" make God subjective? It seems to me that being omniscient makes him the very definition of OBJECTIVE...


<<Why do I get another layer while you get a plate? I don't get the difference.>> 'Cause *I'M* the Birthday Boy! ;) ...Sorry, couldn't help it... :)
The reason I called Creationism a "plate" is because it provides a logicaly consistent (I think...) and completely final answer to the questions of science.
Question: Where did the Universe come from?
Answer: A pre-existing God created it.
You can then speculate where GOD came from, but the line of questioning is no longer scientific, since no evidence is available. Science's questions have been answered and the cake now has a definate bottom.
I called the Eternal Universe theory cake because it raises more questions than it answers
Question: Where did the Universe come from?
Answer: The Universe has Always existed.
The problem is, if the universe has always existed, then the physical Laws must be temporary. You then have to explain how physical laws can be formed without help from OTHER physical Laws or from someone on the outside...

<<Weeell... no. Our understanding of how the universe operates is based on them. The universe isn't based on them.>> Eh? To my understanding, the contents of the Universe ALL are subject to the physical Laws...
Statement: The Universe is made up of a framework of physical Laws (such as "A is not not-A, and the law of Gravity), which control the matter and energy that make up everything we see around us.
To my understanding, those Laws are ABSOLUTE. They have no exceptions; If they did, science would be a farce, yes? <<I'm not sure I'm following this. You're saying that for order to come from chaos, it would have to be flawless?>> My bad... I should have phrased it better. I was simply saying that randomness doesn't produce perfect order. Also, you're assuming that there's a layer BELOW the Laws which is inherently chaotic. I've seen no evidence to support this idea.
If the layer below the Laws were chaotic, the laws themselves would also be chaotic, and so would all of Nature. As it stands, the Laws are orderly, and the randomness in nature is limited by those laws.
<<I do believe it. And doesn't it support the idea of chaos as a foundation?>> I don't think so. Rather, it seems to support the idea that randomness CANNOT produce order, even on an extremely simple level. If it could, and enough time passed to randomly generate the laws (or Life, for that matter), Then we should see lots of straight lines in nature. After all, compare the probabilities of Nature producing a straight line with the probabilities of randomness producing Life.

Ergh. The explanation I wrote last night was MUCH better... :P ...Well, I hope this helps, at any rate.

<<There are either two possibilities. Either it -doesn't- drag the universe, only the matter and energy, meaning all that's left is nothingness (which is what space is, right?).>> This doesn't work, as the energy radiated at the very end of the expansion cycle always will have too much of a head start to ever be recaptured by the extreme gravity of the crunch cycle.
<<With all matter and energy removed from the picture, all physical laws might collapse, with nothing to support them anymore.>> Since the physical laws seem to suport matter and energy and not the other way around, I doubt it.
<<Since we don't know what would be beyond the universe, we can't speculate, but it could redefine space all together, and make it possible for the universe itself to contract.>> This arguement is no more scientific than Creationism, since it relies on a force outside the Universe to solve the quandry.

<<Way I see it, it can't be fair to put one person's fate into another's hand. What if you were some lowly, shy, friendless kid who lived in an orphanage, and one day you needed God to help you, but since no one knows you, no one prayed?>> If God only helped those who were prayed for, you'd be right; However, this statement seems to ignore God's love. I believe he cares deeply for EVERYONE, not just his followers, and he sees *everything*. I don't think he actively controls everything, but I do think he occasionaly takes steps without anyone asking for help. This begs the question "Why didn't he intervene in such-and-such a specific case?", but I simply accept that he knows what he's doing.

Maybe this is the answer to the Faith question. Maybe God just understands that if he answered some questions, he'd have to answer ALL the questions, and thus keep us from finding the answers on our own...

<<Personally, I'm unsure if there is Truth or not, but I wouldn't commit suicide either way. I've gotten past the melo-depressant stage. Life's more pettier concerns involve me now, which maybe is for the better.>> If there were no moral truth, then there would be no reason for me to refrain from certian... activities that really cut down on one's life expectancy. New Yorkers would be wondering what the red glow in the southern sky was... ;)

<<To as far as I'm comprehending this, I think you might be starting to best me...>> See my two end quotes... ;)

Azrael><<I've already got one philisophical discussion going here, I don't need another one. Yet.>> I'd call you a weenie, except this is ALL I DO, and you probably have a life... :P

Lain><<I guess the whole thing comes down to faith. No one has a concrete answer.>> On the contrary... :) <<so.. exactly how does that prove the existence of God again?? Who says the universe has to wind up again?? Where does it say that this might not just be a one-shot deal, where the big bang happens and then that is it?>> I guess you came in too late to catch this part... Basicly, if the Universe is winding down, it must have been wound UP at some point. If it can't rewind itself, then the only logical and scientific conclusion is that something or someone OUTSIDE wound it up in the beginning. Logicaly, that means that SOME form of God has to exist; hence the reason Entity and I are exploring the idea.
<<Others, like me, don't need or want to believe that. Personally, I would much rather live in a universe with no God.>> Except that the very things that we as humans value in life are (assuming Entity can't prove that Truth is a force) dependent on the existence of God... And thus, if I'm correct, life without God is not only pointless, it's also brutal and horrificly short.
<<So... why are we special again?? Because God put us here? Well.. whoop dee..!!, is what I have to say.>> We're special because we are loved. We are special because someone cares about us individualy. <<The only thing that really matters is what you can do for other people...>> But why should we help ANYONE if Truth doesn't exist?

<<there are faaaaar too many Mariuseseses in this place.. which is the first palce I have ever met anyone called Marius at all...>> Ever read or seen Les Miserables? That's where I got mine... :)

I stitched this sucker together like frankenstien's monster, so I mighta missed some stuff... If so, gimme a holler...:P

Wesley: "There's something I *unfh* ...aught to tell you..."
Inigo: "And what is that?"
Wesley: "I'm not lefthanded either."
-"The Princess Bride"

"My arguements too are not mine; I am only their formulator. It is the river, not my oar, that carries our boat."
-Socrates, "The Unaborted Socrates"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 16, 2000 04:20:55 PM
IP: 209-223-253-30.ausa.net

Gunjack- Nope...no skeet...got into Badminton, but it isn't the section I really wanted....have to take at the end of the semester *Grumbles.* But my schedule is set up that I don't have any evening classes or anything during Toonami, plus...NO TUESDAY/THURSDAY CLASSES! YEAH!

On the snow issue....well, I asked and recieved...we got about 3 inches last night, with me waking up to a nicely coated car of white. Just wait, by March, snow will be known as "that white $%!#". Heh heh heh.

Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Thursday, November 16, 2000 04:04:57 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Lain <Could you define for me the difference between "feelings" and "emotions"> I was using them as two different terms. I really don't have a good word for what I want to say instead of "feelings." I can't use Ideas because that sounds too much like "Ideals" of the next level up. Basicly in my terminology an emotion is "My new friend doesn't really like me, I'm sad" and a feeling is "Every time a Friend moves away I'm sad." It's a really fine line, and I'm not 100% sure I'm describing it correctly. An emotion is a one time thing, easy to change. A feeling is something that has happened enough that you can see it coming a long way off, and is slightly more difficult to change. Maybe this will make it more clear: A human has all four levels, emotion, feeling, ideals, beliefs. A Vulcan from Star Trek would only have the last three <at least that they show.>, and a puppy only really has the first two. The last two are necessary for sentience, but I don't even want to get into that. I've already got one philisophical discussion going here, I don't need another one. Yet.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 16, 2000 03:32:40 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

**enters rubbing eyes**
I'm writing and essay.. right now, I really am.. can't you tell??? *groans* stupid music history, grumble grumble.. who CARES about the differences between Gluck and Monteverdi's interpretations on Orpheus???.. Gah..

Gunjack>> so.. exactly how does that prove the existence of God again?? Who says the universe has to wind up again?? Where does it say that this might not just be a one-shot deal, where the big bang happens and then that is it? The universe doesn't necessairily have to go into a "big crunch" recent data suggests that the rate of expansion in the universe is actually increasing, not slowing down, as one would expect from the "boomerang universe" idea.

I guess the whole thing comes down to faith. No one has a concrete answer. Some people believe in the big bang, some people believe in creation. Both can seem totally outrageous when taken to the extreme and the fact is that no one knows. Many would rather believe that they and the universe were created by God and this means they have a purpose and a reason for being here. Others, like me, don't need or want to believe that. Personally, I would much rather live in a universe with no God. I know I have no real purpose, I mean.. I am one of around six BILLION humans that inhabit this planet, which is really a little wee rock going around this boring M class star (of which there are zillions of others) on the outskirts of the Milky Way Galaxy (which isn't that special either) in an almost endless universe consisting of much the same. So... why are we special again?? Because God put us here? Well.. whoop dee..!!, is what I have to say. I am OK with the knowledge that I am rather less than insignificant..

The only thing that really matters is what you can do for other people..

Azrael>> Could you define for me the difference between "feelings" and "emotions"?? I am not trying to be a smart-@rse but I always thought they were synonyms..

Gunjack and Warpmind>> there are faaaaar too many Mariuseseses in this place.. which is the first palce I have ever met anyone called Marius at all..

Aaaah well.. I should probably get back to this whole essay writing junk, shouldn't I??
(grumble)

Where's that bear hat???..
**lain exits, with all the good intentions in the world of writing the essay..**

Love,
lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Thursday, November 16, 2000 03:08:57 PM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

*Valentine enters, with one hand tucked suspiciously under his jacket*

"You're old enough to Kill
But not for votin'
You don't believe in war
but what's that gun you're totin'?"
-Bob Dylan, "Eve of Destruction"

Yesterday was... Interesting. Entity hadn't posted all day, so I decided to take another crack at weapon modeling. *pulls out a matte-silver machine pistol*
Meet the Coffin Hammer Custom. It's based on a liquid-propellent .40 TAPII (much like the Steyr TMP IRL, or the ZMG for you Goldeneye fans), but I've added a few goodies for specops.
The CH Custom uses a special "Reburner" system to excite the propellent prior to firing, which results in double standard muzzle velocities. The system can be switched on or off at will; on the standard LP firing mode, an integral supressor keeps the noise signiture down to a whisper. A foregrip aids in control, and a HUD intake allows effortless aiming. .40 S&P AP2 ammo is carried in thirty-round magazines, and power for the Reburner is provided by a pair of Raijune Softcell energy packs carried on the belt.

Nice, eh? I got most of the modeling done last night, and I got just a bit of tweaking left before I can start on skinning and animations. 8)
*ignores the rampant snoring, and scans for replies*

Azrael><<Maybe not by themselves, but try getting there without them. ;)>> Ooo, GOOD point! :)

Lynati><<*blinks* I must have missed that episode. Let me guess-an early Brooklyn-esque revenge on Demona, before he forgave her?>> Nope, a very current episode of what goes on inside my head. Gargoyles ALSO teaches that you shouldn't mess with guns, and look how well I follow THAT lesson... 8D <<(that cowpie line has officially been added to the "random lines I must include in my stories" list. I'll put you in the credits, don't worry. ;) )>> My work here is done! :D
<<.....wouldn't _you_ like to know? oh. I guess you do.>> *whistles appricietively* ...Wheee! It must be fun during family reunions... :) Me, I'm limited to Micheal (the real Me, perpetually exhausted wannabe college student/gun nut/rabid GM/author), Gunjack Valentine (the quasi-Evil Suit), and Dogmeat (the crazy fragger we let out to play paintball and CS).
<<...I really like the Kansas version; but then I also liked the movie Demon Knight(thought it was Hysterical.)>> ...Yeah. Are you saying that the kansas version is a musical Demon Night? 'Casue if so, I'm gonna start backing away slowly now... ;) <<you know the rest.>> Now you can enjoy watching people walk into the same trap and come back with blown minds... :)
<<"...except a nice MLT- you know, a mutton, lettuce, and tomatoe? When the mutton's nice and lean...mmm, they're so perky; I just love that...">> "And thank you oh so much for bringing up such a painful subject. While you're at it, why don't you just give me a nice papercut and pour lemon juice on it!? We're CLOSED!" :D

DPH><<One answer: spirtual death>> One answer, and it's a good one. I think you guys are right on this... <<Once again, my attempts at concealing my religious background have failed due to lack of personal restraint.>> Weenie... ;) ...C'mon, 'Mano; Share the wealth!

David G><<I do feel compelled to point out a bit of innacuracy I've seen cropping up. (You good christian boys should know better)>> Thanks... :P Don't know how that one slipped past me.

Kit><<I too like Sum of All Fears a lot, though Without Remorse is my favorite Clancy book. Just can't get over a strong gallant hero like Mr. Clark. :)>> Clark's my hero. He's polite and cultured, yet he understands the application of extreme violence. 8D <<I like being single too after all.>> You've got time, Doug, but the end is near! NEAR, I say! Heed the teachings of stabbing Westward, and flee before the coming wrath!
...Just kidding... ;) ...No, really. I was jsut kidding! PLEASE! NOT IN TH-*whack*
*thud*
<<On Jammer, well, he's the kind of guy who sometimes likes to go walking through the bad part of town hoping he gets jumped, just so he can let off a little steam by beating up somebody.>> Me an' Jeff need to get together with this guy... I think we'd have fun.
<<And Billy Joel is not a loser.>> I had him confused with Billy Idol. :P
<<You know, they never found any of the bodies of those sailors. Just an empty ship. Hmm.>> Creepy... o_O

SJ><<Do we really even need a President? I'm beginning to think we don't.>> If not, I nominate myself for the position of Benevolent Dictator... :) Or if that doesn't work, I'll just toss my vote in for Wilek's evil schemes... <<(Seriously, Fred, I only *wish* they'd give you your own show! Finally, a reason to turn on the television! :)>> I'd watch... I don't have a TV, but I'd still watch... :)

Lain><<And besides that, I think the latest theory is that the universe is going to continue to expand until it reaches absolute zero and everything dies, because all indications of the Red Shift tell that the rate of expansion in the universe is increasing, not slowing down as would be expected in the "big bang, big crunch" scenario.>> It could be that the Universe is still in the expansion stage. But if you're right, then there HAS to be a God, as the theory eliminates any possibility of the Universe "Winding itself back up". If the Universe can't wind itself up, then someone else had to...
<<Ever seen that poster about "religious views of life?>> I love that one... Especially the Zen version. :) <<That's mostly it for now.. and I really hope no one takes any offense to the Religious quotes...>> Don't worry, they be big boys and girls... ;)

Warpmind><<Not much, really... Maybe twenty hours in all of general Martial Arts instructions from a friend (when I say general, I mean things that most styles have in common), plus an unknown amount of time mimicking moves I've seen in movies.>> I've got the "Mimicking movies" bit, and I've gotten a little practical experience from sparring with(read "being beat up by") my buddy Jeff. I doubt I could do that much damage, though... o_O <<Local tools might be more efficient... ];)>> It's hard to find primitive axes in a mafia mansion in Louisiana...

Kryryn><<It's supposed to be in use to power a weapon that destroys solar systems. I can't say any more than that since it involves his unpublished universe.>> Jeff and I have one stashed somewhere for when we finally get around to biulding the Light Condensation Weapon...

Caliope><<Well...you guys been buisy... :P>> It's a way to pass the time... :D <<But if you want a dance, sure, wich do you like better, the Hokie pokie or the funky chiken?! :P>> Definately the Funky Chicken. The Hokie-Pokie always creeped me out for some reason...

Gasper><<Ah well, Badmiton sounds like more fun, and I'll get a better work out anyway.>> Do they offer Skeet? ;)

GregX><<He feels it is time for vampires and demons to have a voice in the federal government.>> Isn't that what we've got NOW!??

Christine><<last night was interesting ...>> o_O ...You need a bouncer! Keep safe, 'kay?

Gside><<This much! Wait, Gunjack already did that... more than... I can't think of a good metaphor.>> Try a science version... "I missed you on the sub-atomic level!" <<I'd say Mido Miko was involved in the original development. Now they follow her everywhere.>> No clue who that is, and I don't think I wanna know... ;) <<So you're actually a large breasted gargoyle who pilots a giant robot?>> *Tips his chair over laughing*
<<That was said too soon after the hentai tentacles. So many images.>> Go ahead and slap him, Ma'am. We won't tell... ;) <<If I would get a kielbasa, yes.>> You have a remarkable resistence to Fruedian imagery... I doubt I'd be able to eat ANYTHING.
<<Yup. The entire universe returns to a single point.>> Cooooolll... Thanks, Mr Wizard! ;) <<Very carefully. Well, all space is currently expanding. Why couldn't it go back?>> I was assuming that space was static. How can they tell it isn't? <<Well, we did prove that the universe is the right temperature if the Big Bang happened when we did.>> Would it be the same temperture if it had been created?
<<And there is a certain time period before which we cannont determine what happened (called Planck time, 1.35x10^-43s).>> And here, it seems, is where Science starts feeding on itself... *reads the bit again* ...Um, that's VERY confusing... o_O
<<Come on, it has everyting you could want, warring ninja clans, deals with devils, and you start feeling sorry for Nin Nin.>> And apparently, naughty tentacles. :P
<<i think the original plan would have been that he was controlling them.>> Well, that puts a whole new spin on it, doesn't it? o_O
<<I believe most of the fundamental rules we have going right now are working at the quantum level, and their interactions lead to macroscopic laws.>> Uh... is that a good thing? o_O ...Could you chop that down to a third grade reading level?
<<I carry mine with me to every class. I consider myself to be rather proficient at its use.>> I never graduated beyond the standard four functions... :P I really should; A graphing calc would speed up weapon design with GURPS VeII...
<<Parallel postulate! Well, not quite.>> I don't know what YOU'RE talking about, but the "no straight lines" idea is that in nature, you never find three points perfectly lined up...
<<How can we have measurements of the radius of the universe at certain intervals after the big bang?>> Huh? You've completely lost me...
<<What about looking outside the multiverse? They do believe that there are other universes constantly being created outside our own.>> Created by what? This seems to just keep pushing the question back further...
<<And just how serious can you be in rented pants?>> A scary thought... Remind me of that before my next formal occasion... ;)
<<In other news, I have no posted over one hundred mp3s.>> In that case, I thank you a hundred times. :) Oh, and the Wormsong is awesome! Thanks to you and Warps... 8D
Here's to hoping you hang around for another year at the least...

Aingeal><<am I allowded to put my 2 cents worth in on the ongoing religious thoughts?>> Absolutely! :) I'll try to hit this stuff in my logic post.
<<as to hiding bodies.. best way... DON'T KILL THEM TO BEGIN WITH?????>> Where's the fun in that?

AotN><<Hello, everyone!! Just thought I'd pop in and look around, since I haven't been in here in forever...>> ...o_O Whoa! You HAVE been gone a long time... Welcome back! :) <<I mean, they took the best line in Gundam Wing, Heero's "Death hurts like hell", and turned it into "It hurts so much". Hello!!>> Good line... *shakes his head at their idiocy*

Warpmind><<Uh... "Marius, the pissed Gunjack"? Dude, *MY* name is Marius... I can't recall seeing that it's yours, too... :|>> And here you thought my first name was "Gunjack"... ;)

Marius Anthony Valentine, Gunjack First Class
Profile: Gunman Edge, 5 LTA/47 STA completed, Slave/Furie Mentality, 82% stable.

He's a good boy... :)

Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it
If I please...
-MASH Theme
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:38:05 PM
IP: 209-223-253-154.ausa.net

(tosses out a pizza place name or four) Little Ceasers, Pizza Hut, Round Table Pizza, Scarcellas,
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:08:22 PM
IP: h2odam.sdccd.cc.ca.us

*enters, listening to her new bootlegged Slayers cds that Aaron sent her, and smiles innocently at Warpy before lurking once more*

real post coming ssoon as I get a chance, folks
Shinigami
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:06:23 PM
IP: spider-mtc-tc024.proxy.aol.com

*Warpmind enters, scritching his beard.*
Howdy. *Casts a concerned glance toward Mara.* Ehum... on to business...

Kyryn: Yeah, that sounds rather probable... and the kick to ribs would explain why my groin has felt rather stretched recently... (I'm not really a very limber person...) *Sigh* The issue in a knife fight is never to avoid getting cut up; it's to avoid getting cut up more than your opponent...

Archwolf: Hehehe... the duel looks more and more like it's on... just make sure you don't hurt me, and you should make it out alive. ];)

GXB: Had this been at Callahan's, that political press release you just served would have caused you to be pelted with enough peanuts to provoke allergies in your great-great-great-grandchildren. ];)

Mary: You're turning 18 in less than a month? Do reveal the date, girl! :)

Fire Storm: 300 Watt ATX power supply units? Hmmm... I'm not much into brand names, but... probably. It's not the watts that are the problem, it's the volt strength - the power supply runs at 230V over here.

Christine: Yipe.. .tough day, it seems... but... *Oral* Roberts? Let me guess... that guy's all mouth, right? ];)

Winterwolf: Well, you *said* the heavy marble was heavier than the others... you *should* have said havier than ANY of the others... ];) (Working on it, amigo...)

Gunjack Valentine: Uh... "Marius, the pissed Gunjack"? Dude, *MY* name is Marius... I can't recall seeing that it's yours, too... :|

Gside: You found the Worms Theme? Oooo... groovy! *Downloading*

Oh, well... that's about it... Later, gang.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Thursday, November 16, 2000 12:44:32 PM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

Hello, everyone!! Just thought I'd pop in and look around, since I haven't been in here in forever...

I popped into the Fanfic Archive last night and read some more of Mara's Misted stories, and all I have to say is this: are those not the funniest tales to ever grace Gargoyles fandom? I can't remember the last time I laughed so hard!

Mary Flanders> Okay, correct if I'm totally off here, but did you get your name from the book "Moll Flanders"? I chose to read that book b/c I love the movie (the Robin Wright one, that is), and, well, that book and the movie don't seem to be even remotely related!! I'm three-fourths of the way through it, and she's been married five times, had about 12 children, all of which she's managed to get rid of, and she's "whored" herself twice. Dirty. Um, any comments?

*Endless Waltz Review*

Well, quite honestly I don't have a lot of time to get in to this, but I loved it. Gundam Wing is my fave anime on Cartoon Network (Sailor Moon, DBZ, and Tenchi Muyo are all based off comics which, in my opinion, are far superior to the show).

I love the Gundam Wing characters, but frankly, my main concern is the quality of the animation. From that standpoint, compared to the show, Endless Waltz was breathtaking!! (I was particularly tickled by the part when Heero sirsts gets into Wing Zero and his hand flies over the keyboard, and at the beginning of his flashback/dream when jumps over the fence- very cool. The funny thing is, if you watch it frame by frame, the pictures aren't even that great, but when you put them all together... *sigh* Ah, the beauty of animation! ...And I'm done.)

Despite all this gloating over the animation of Endless Waltz, I'd have to agree with Entity? that the plot was pretty pathetic. I don't know if it was just the sucky American translation or what, but there were a lot of parts that seemed totally out of place, or made no sense at all. The description of Mariemaia's (sp?) backround was extremely vague, the Barton family was confusing, and who the heck was that guy who killed the Barton family leader (I can't spell his name, either, so that's what I'm calling him)?! And, aside from Heero, and a little bit of Relena and Lady Une/Ann, the character development was almost nonexistent. Mariemaia was boring (until the very end), Quatre and Duo were cute and funny as usual, but their characters didn't really grow beyond that, and Trowa was vague and Wufei loud and annoying, as usual. And how come Lady Une/Ann was the only character surprised to see Zechs? Sheesh.

As for the new Gundams- I can't really explain this, since I'm not that big of an anime buff, but for some reason all the Gundams were different on purpose, even in the flashacks. I didn't mind it, though, I think they look better that way! Although, I'm not too sure about Wing Zero's wings- they look spiffy, but I would swear that they defy some kind of physical law... However I absolutely love the new Sandrock and Deathscythe Hell, and the color changes in Heavyarms and Shenlong/Argon. Argon looked too much like Wing and Wing Zero before, and Heavyarms just looked bad in fire engine red. Guess that wasn't made for any type of stealth manuvering! About Zechs's Tallgeese- didn't both versions of that get blown up in the series?

Backing up to American translations: this probably added to the confusion of the story. I mean, they took the best line in Gundam Wing, Heero's "Death hurts like hell", and turned it into "It hurts so much". Hello!!

Anyway...


So Greg is back at Disney? Yay. :)

Well, in the words of the Barenaked Ladies, I'm so done, turn me over (no double entendre intended). Bye for now!! :)

AotN
Thursday, November 16, 2000 12:33:18 PM
IP: fn-39-157.sssnet.com

Quick bit of catch-up!

Mary: That's wonderful! Glad to hear you'll be walking normally again soon. Wish I could have signed the cast though. :( Happy early birthday, and best of luck on today's test.

Firestorm: I must have missed that MP3. :( Thanks for the reminder, I'll go back and look for it. Thanks for the body explanation too.

Christine: Thank God I don't have your job! How do you ever continually put up with such people? <shakes head>

Winterwolf: Thanks for the hopes. Last night was especially good in that I got no wake-up calls whatsoever. Three Tuesday night though. :( Hope she's taking my advice to wake Keith up instead of me seriously. <sighs> Sorry to hear I'm not the only one with wake-up-call problems, hope you can at least get your work done well.

Gside: Formal certainly is easy for guys. <sigh> But at least I got Stephanie to approve a different catalog for me yesterday. And Doug and I have narrowed the choices in there down to three.

Niamhgold: Congrats on the great party, and the resolution about Serge. Perhaps friends is the best thing to be with a guy like him.

SJ: Did you get the e-mail I sent to both you and Robby? Are you avoiding talking to me because of the faux pas I committed Tuesday night? I'm really sorry for that, I promise it won't happen again. I understand if you're mad, but can you please just let me know whether or not so we can work things out? You're my friend, I want us to remain such. The silent treatment is not good for anyone. <sighs>

More later. Doug will post tonight.
Kitainia
Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:11:11 AM
IP: pool-63.52.170.23.dlls.grid.net

** Niamhgold enters **L

Ahh, I know I said I'd post last night, but we had a party over at Serge's. So, I'll make up for things now (hopefully)!

Just a week until Thanksgiving, which means just five days until I fly home! Yay, real food, real food, real food, real food, real food!

Oh, and Reuben's party went well...although he can act like your average, 19 year-old guy, he has a sense of maturity that had him flustered at the fact that he so many friends who _wanted_ to throw him a surprise party.

Winterwolf: No, not the sniffly icky cold! Hope I didn't give it to you! ** HUGS ** Have a warm bowl of chicken soup, some Jell-O, and some flowers! <candy and toys> Not so much candy as toys, little packaged ones...let's just say Reuben is your average, 19 year-old college male ;)
Get better Winterwolf!

Gside: Yep, you're pretty much right about the pinata thing. Actually, in identifying you simply by your posts, II wouldn't relate you to objects or equations but more to the general color purple. Don't know why...although maybe it'll make you feel better to know purple is usually considered an intelligence-procuring color. And congrats on your 100th mp3!

Kit: Again, thanks for the advice. I know what you mean about guys and looks, but I guess there's nothing I can do about that. :( But, on the bright side, at least we'll continue to be friends, and I guess that's all that matters.

Adios for now!


Niamhgold
Thursday, November 16, 2000 08:30:12 AM
IP: 206.41.204.68

Just so you know, my color rotation was off, and that should have been Dark Green.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:39:20 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

:gently smooths Wolf's fur:: I'll not attack you just yet packbrother...

::glances at people:: am I allowded to put my 2 cents worth in on the ongoing religious thoughts?... hope so... I'm going to anyway...:p

Entity:: <<<What they found out was that they needed “faith” in what the teacher told them, and for that lack of faith, they didn’t pass the “test.”>>> Well, I think the lesson was actually merely obedience. Teachers hand those tests out when their patience thins. ;) But seriously, did your classmates get kicked out of school for failing that test? No, because the point was to learn from it. God's way of administering his "test" doesn't allow for a second chance. :: Dear... this is what the whole process in the Garden of Gethsemane was all about... it's called Christ's Atonement.. it's our "second" (and third...forth..etc) chance to redeem ourselves with God. We're not going to be perfect... God knew that... thus He set up a way for us to gain cleansing and redemption from our mistakes...

::drops religious topic for now::

Cat... as to hiding bodies.. best way... DON'T KILL THEM TO BEGIN WITH????? I'd also rather not have to go back into Law to keep you out of Jail...:P

::sighs:: people are beginning to annoy me tho... I'm sick of being asked to bail out friends and fill them in on classes they skip regularly... ::decides to stop whining::

::yawns:: movies are good.. but sleeping before class is as well....hmmm... tho I don't have my supplies for the assignment... grr... dangit.. i'm in deep this time... ::growls::...someone quick!...e-mail me a roll of brown paper... heh... ::sighs:: I'm ready to kill my art teacher now....

:grumbles quietly as she wanders off to a corner to watch people quietly again::
Aingeal - [aingealkelly@yahoo.com]
VA
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:38:42 AM
IP: 207.42.162.18

Though Netscape 6 can remember how fields were filled out in forms.

New Pendragon: Quite good again, though things did seem a little eager to come out happily. And didn't Arthur kill Mordred with a lance?

Traveler> <<Freakin' song lyrics stuck in my head>>: Ear worm!
<<I promise it's only almost as addicting as crack>>: The first one's always free. Though I would say it is as addicting as wang.
<<Have you seen the music video someone made with clips from...>>: That's all over the place. Evangelion/I Think I'm a Clone Now, Lodoss/Duel of the Fates, Nadesico/Cruel Angel's Thesis, Mononoke/Mummer's Dance. And that's just what I bothered to get.

Calíope> <<just HOW much did ya miss me>>: This much! Wait, Gunjack already did that... more than... I can't think of a good metaphor.
<<I saw lots and lots of art>>: But what about Air and Space?

Warpmind> <<got into a bad situation today...>>: That doesn't sound good. Though it is nice to hear you weren't hurt very badly. Heal quickly.
<<could you try to find and post the Worms theme? The mp3?>>: Your wish is my command. How's one with narration, and the main theme in the chorus?

Gunjack> <<you don't know about the *REAL* tentacles, do you? Trust me, Wilek didn't create them>>: I'd say Mido Miko was involved in the original development. Now they follow her everywhere.

For a different take on theological issues, I reccommend the online comic Acid Reflux.

Sev. Jr.> << the show will feature the Gargoyles. And big-bosomed babes. And a few giant robots, for the Gundam junkies. And ME of course!>>: So you're actually a large breasted gargoyle who pilots a giant robot?

Todd Jensen> <<Just what ARE Hentai Tentacles, anyway?>>: One of those questions that should never be asked. Answers just don't do them justice.

AingealKelly> Welcome.
<<I'm also a shapeshifer... kinda... among other things>>: That was said too soon after the hentai tentacles. So many images.

Gunjack> <<Thanks for "Edmund Fitzgerald"; it makes a nice companion piece to "Robert MacKenzie"!>>: You are quite welcome. I always thought so, and both are very good in their own way.
<<what was the reference to an "aniversery" about?>>: Fire Storm claimed that it was recently the anniversary of the sinking.
<<But would you have liked that conversation?>>: If I would get a kielbasa, yes.
<<That sounds... Ominous>>: Yes. Yes it is. You know what this room does to people.
<<not only does the matter in the universe collapse, but it pulls all of SPACE in after it?>>: Yup. The entire universe returns to a single point.
<<Enough Gravity could actually collapse all space? How?>>: Very carefully. Well, all space is currently expanding. Why couldn't it go back?
<<"Big Bang" theory is built around the unproven (and possibly unprovable) assumptions that the Universe has always existed and that order can arrise from chaos>>: Well, we did prove that the universe is the right temperature if the Big Bang happened when we did. Incidentally, this was proven while a couple guys were trying to figure out why their satelite dish had static. And there is a certain time period before which we cannont determine what happened (called Planck time, 1.35x10^-43s). This also means that the universe official came into existance when it was already one Planck time old (if you head doesn't explode now, you weren't paying attention).

Lynati> <<well, naughty tentacles did come up in her expalantion, refering to a certain video series>>: LBG? It seems to be pretty good.
<<One of which I NEVER plan on seeing>>: Come on, it has everyting you could want, warring ninja clans, deals with devils, and you start feeling sorry for Nin Nin.
Incidentally, there is truth to be found here (but no naughtiness): http://hotzp.com/badboys/archives/030100.html

Lynati> <<I read that story TWO HOURS ago, and just got that>>: I read that story when it was first posted, and it had to be parsed for me a week or so ago (after I had memorised it from contemplating it so much).


Winterwolf> <<I will identify them with colors, shapes, fragrances, symbols, formulas, equations and objects>>: I am scared of how I am associated. Of course, I probably caused the fifth and sixth categories to be listed. And those aren't as bad.
<<The pizza place is>>: E. Danny's Pizza and Subs, Gino's East, or Pythagoras' Pizza Place. (source of last name: http://www.cerulean.st/absurdnotions/page24.html
the other two are one that my family essentially keeps in business (strictly weekly pizza plus occasional subs), and perhaps the best pizza place in Chicago)

Lain> <<IT IS TOO EARLY FOR SNOW>>: It is never too early for snow.

Gunjack> <<you were gonna subject yourSELF to hentai tentacles>>: i think the riginal plan would have been that he was controlling them.
<<Gside, can you lend a hand?>>: Let's see. Order from chaos. I bellieve most of the fundamental rules we have going right now are working at the quantum level, and their interactions lead to macroscopic laws. But then quantum stuff seems to rely heavily on probability and not knowing exactly what's going on (Schröedinger, anyone?). But I think there's enough regulation of what's going on at the lower levels to say there is some semblance of order.
<<This is a calculator. it's a NICE calculator. It won't hurt you>>: I carry mine with me to every class. I consider myself to be rather proficient at its use.
<<There are no straight lines in nature>>: Parallel postulate! Well, not quite. But could say that a striaght line is the shortest distance between two points defined by the centers of two masses. Of course, the shortest distance is the path a photon takes from one to the other, and since gravity funkifies (technical term) space, that path could bend.
<<when the matter starts collapsing, how can it drag in the UNIVERSE after it?>>: How can we have measurements of the radius of the universe at certain intervals after the big bang?
<<If you can't look outside the Universe>>: What about looking outside the multiverse? They do believe that there are other universes constantly being created outside our own.

I just realized that digital can eventually be more accutate than analog.

Niamhgold> <<I've got to fill the pinata with...well, never mind>>: Just about anything can find it's way into a pinata in a college party. And that triggers my dirty mind.

Winterwolf> <<You are given 81 marbles and a balance>>: Weigh a group of 27 versus 27 (third 27 on the side), of the heavies group (by elimination) weigh 9 against 9. Repeat for 3 and 1.

Kitainia> <<she expects me to pick a suitable maid-of-honor dress out of it>>: Another reason I like my Y chromosome. Formal is easy. And just how serious can you be in rented pants?

Well, I reached my previous post, and I need sleep to deal with the rest of the week.

But first, because Warpmind requested it, I give you Wormsong by Bjorn Lynne (if you can't understand the chorus, check out http://ftp.sunet.se/~aminet/dirs/aminet/mods/smpl/Team17WormSong.readme
the chorus also happens to be a very accurate description of the game). Also, in honor of my second year here, I posted Happy Anniversary by the Little River Band. In other news, I have no posted over one hundred mp3s.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:38:06 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

Oh, and A. Kelly, I was planning on doing a quick account of all the issues we've hit, just to check which ones were resolved. I'll try to shoehorn it in tomorrow...
And you might want to tell me in here when you've emailed next time... I only check the box once a month... :P
Marius, the pissed Gunjack
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:29:57 AM
IP: 209-223-253-101.ausa.net

*Valentine enters swearing sulferously*

Two. Freaking. Hours. Wasted. With. TWO. ACCIDENTAL! FREAKING! KEYSTROKES!!! AAAAAARRRRGHHH!!!
*storms angrily toward DC, but is halted by a bearsuit-clad Lain*
Dangit... How am I supposed to torture DC hidiously when there's a charming lass in jammies in the way!? o_O
*sigh*
Sorry, Entity, no post tonight... It's too late to start over, so I'll just do it tomorrow... ;P
*Storms out to go model some weapons*
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:23:42 AM
IP: 209-223-253-101.ausa.net

**Winterwolf has a stuffy nose**

Hi. Well I'm still a little sick but I got better! At least I wasn't turned into a newt! :)

Kitainia> Hope you managed and manage to get more uninterrupted sleep! I can totally relate to the evils of the late night calls. Right now every third week there is a pretty good chance I will get a phone call from Operations if something goes wrong on any of the web sites. I've managed to get a few of these as late as 3AM when I need to be up at 6AM to get to work!

Warpmind> Thanks, though I think now I'd have to go for an entire facemask or something! As for the marbles well that might work but what if all the marbles were the same size and the one heavy marble wasn't that much heavier? I know you want to crack this before Niamhgold or Robby the riddle champions just answer it with ease! ;)

Caliope> <favorite> They are your favorite? Then let me give you more and I'll make them even more special! **Smothering Furry and Fuzzy HUGZ** <swift playful kick> Ouch! **Rubs his rear from the playful kick** I hope that was aimed at my tail! ;D Guess I had that one coming! Well I just couldn't help myself. :P Anyway if you want the CR before last week here is the link: http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2000/index.html I'll put that on my handle so you can conveniently push my buttons... err I mean click on my name! ^_~ <Roswell> Actually I think that was only one group of skins but I guess we'll see! :) <dance> Well if you have two that you know let's try both! Something tells me you have the best funky chicken I've ever seen! LOL ;) <anti-con curse> Why did you tell me? I would have put that curse in its place! Aww! Next time then! **HUGZ** <I was in NY waiting at the airport for 3 hours on Sunday> Really? Were you that drop-dead gorgeous Hispanic woman that looked like a super model, who I gave a dozen roses and said I love you to in the airport? That was you, wasn't it? ROFL ;D

Archwolf> <Armoring> Wow I did not know you could do that! I ask for some work but you might run me through considering how much you have to do right now! Well heal up, I don't want you getting hurt now!

Mary Flanders> Congrats! It's great to hear that you are okay! :)

No takers on the Name the Pizza place game? :( Come on you know you want to! Just toss out a pizza place name!

Good night! I'm off to the Land of milk and honey!

**Winterwolf goes to bed a little less stuffy**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Thursday, November 16, 2000 01:01:34 AM
IP: 206.15.120.98

Firestorm> (shrugs)
James Birdsong
Thursday, November 16, 2000 12:57:45 AM
IP: adsl-63-207-131-215.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

Avalon Mists > just a reminder, there's still time to send in submissions for the Winter 2000 issue! We're looking for fics, pics, filks, poems, character spotlights, fun stuff, and basically anything ... and don't forget the Challenge -- the Gargoyle Olympics! Send 'em to me at christine@sabledrake.com by Nov. 30 for inclusion in the next issue!

Work stuff > last night was interesting ... in the space of my first hour on duty, I got not one but TWO caffinated beverages winged at me by two separate residents ... the first guy, mad because I wouldn't let him use the office phone to call long distance to Oral Roberts, slapped a (thankfully unopened) can of cola off the counter at me. The second guy, who is nice most of the time but pulls a complete Jekyll-and-Hyde when he's been drinking, doused me with (thankfully cold) coffee in the course of a tantrum that also left the elevator call button broken (he punched it several times) and damaged one of the fire door alarm box widgies so that it emitted an electronic squeal for several hours until the batteries ran down. Wowie, what fun ... but he didn't come back all night and the boss says he's outta here anyway, that he'd been warned too many times and this was the last straw, hasta la vista. Another night in the monkey house ...

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 11:43:41 PM
IP: 14-090.009.popsite.net

DPH: <Where did Greg say he was back working for Disney?>
He mentions it quite a bit in the recent Ask Greg responses.
<how did you hide your IP address?>
*sigh* Go to spaceproxy.com to find out.

Gside: <Either you are psychic, or you know that you just have to bring up a special occasion and I will look for an mp3 that matches it.>
Number 1. But I knew I was going to say that. :)
<Wreck MP3>
Hey, was that a version from the 70's? His voice seemed higher than the version I (nearly constantly) hear on the radio.

Traveler: <Which is exactly why we SHOULD NOT EVER bring it up>
Good points. Lips zipped.
<So who's planning the stag party?>
*Fire Storm clutches his ears to avoid hearing the screamings of the creativity demons*
"NO! STAY OUT OF MY HEAD!"

James Birdsong: <The whole thing is a test to see if Terry will do the right thing even though it seems Superman has gone bad>
Nuking Metropolis as a test? Na... not a good idea.
Unless that is just a simulation... they are quite real, arn't they?

Warpmind: <I figure that I'd probably need to get the power supply unit in Norway>
Can ya get 300 watt ATX power supplys?
<*Casts a queer look in SJ's direction.* You're kidding, right?>
All things are true! :)

Cat: <Second, anybody know good ways to hide bodies?>
You want to know theory or practice?
Word of wisdom: DOn't bury them in your yard.

Kitania: <There's a great song about the Edmund Fitzgerald sinking, wish I could remember who sings it>
Gordan Lightfoot. It was Gside's MP3 from Saturday.
<You know, they never found any of the bodies of those sailors. Just an empty ship. Hmm>
Same with the Titanic. The bodies simply were washed away, were eaten, or were decomposed.
(And yes, I know that technically eaten and decomposed are the same thing)
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 11:17:09 PM
IP: pppa51-resaledetroit2-1r7227.saturn.bbn.com

*enters*

***Update on MRI Scan***

Well, I got my test results back today and good news! Everything is normal! ^_^ I guess the reason for why a certain thing was happening to me before it was supposed to was because of my medication. That's the most likely explanation. Yipee for me!!!!

***End of Update***

Happy day for me!!! I found an anime website that has episodes from different series on it, _and_ I'm able to watch them! ^_^ *laughs insanely* And it has Ranma 1/2!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! >;P

Also, I went to the doctor to get my ankle looked at and I no longer need the stupid brace and crutches!!! My God, I was so sick of using them! I was limping around school all day for nearly a week and yesterday when I walked to my mom's car when school got out I thought, "Screw this!" and just picked up my crutches and walked the last few feet to the car. Made my mom laugh. ;P Right now I just have to wear an Ace bandage thingy for about a month.

My B-day is in less than a month!!! I'll be turning 18!!! YIPEEE FOR ME!!!!! ^_^

Aye me, must go now. Have test tomorrow in Physics. :P Later all!

*GONE*
Mary Flanders
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:45:58 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

**A portal opens a 3d holographic image of DPH is displayed in the room. The image starts to speak:
"DPH would post here, but due to an upset stomach he does not feel like it. The upset stomach was caused by his new medicine. Thankfully, he promises to post tomorrow, provided his stomach agrees with him."
The holographic image disappears and the portal disappears.**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:00:41 PM
IP: max1-28.cwy.cei.net

..253,940 and counting..
;)!
lain
the wired
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 09:54:55 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

..253,940 and counting..
;)!
lain
the wired
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 09:54:36 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

Caliope> :)
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 09:54:21 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-131-215.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

Too bad that Vader for President site did not tell us how he took the end of the election. But I can tell you what happened with the other Interfandom candidates.

Dominique Destine conceded defeat just before dropping a big bag containing a couple thousand ballots into a ravine out of spite. Luckily Brooklyn caught the bag and turned it over to Florida officials, they have started another recount due to these new votes.

Brooklyn also conceded defeat, but said there's always the next election. But Lexington may challenge him in the Gargoyle Primaries.

Galvatron conceded defeat FOR both Al Gore and George W. Bush and declared himself the victor. Pat Buchanan responded to this saying "I wish I'd thought of that."

Optimus Prime is missing and presumed dead. But he should be back soon.

And it has just been announced that Vader expected a clear win, but he was killed when the Death Star exploded. His son, Luke Skywalker cremated him, and will be running in the next election. Though a clone of Emperor Palpatine may decide to run against him.

William the Bloody or Spike as he is better known will be running in the next election. He feels it is time for vampires and demons to have a voice in the federal government. Also he needs to find another means of having the chip removed from his head. We do expect a scandal involving Drusilla, Harmony and Buffy Summers over the course of his campaign.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 09:30:34 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

*Archwolf enters the CR, fur smoking. WarFrost trots along beside him, taking in the scents of all the newbies*

***Begin Armoring Rant***
Well, it is getting to be that time again. I have been armoring for most of the fencers on the team, and have managed to singe my self...again. Sometimes, being the team armorer really sucks. Especially when no one tells me that their equipment does not work untill 3 days before a tournament. If it were only one fencer, it would be alright. However, when 12 of them rush up to you at once demanding, not asking, that you fix their equipment NOW, it gets old FAST. So why do I do it? Do I get paid? Do I get the undying affection of some of my cuter female team mates? do I get to take my pick of equipment in the armory? NOPE! I do it because I am the only one who can. If I didn't it is likely that my team would have to forfeit quite a few bouts due to malfunctioning equipment. A simple thank you would be quite welcome from time to time, you know?
***End Armoring Rant***

On a similar not, our second meet of the season is comming up this weekend, With luck, I will be coming out with a winning record for once.

Cat>Hey, how about we sic ShadowWOlf and Razer on that Vince guy? I think we could both use the release.

Aingeal><<::sits back to watch people in the room, and contemplate next crazy action to take on people she knows::
>>Um...*offers a Chocolate Covered Fat Free Mouse* Enjoy. Just don't fry me, k?

Warpmind>*edges away nervously* Um..maybe our duel at the Gathering is not such a good idea afterall...j/k. Lookin forward to it (if all goes well....)

**Buffy Review***
This is probably the best ep yet, absoloutly best ep this season. Finnally got to see Spike's beginning. Btw, does anyone else think when he was done up as Bloody William, that he looked a bit like Danny Kay? ANyhow, I liked the little 'lessons' he was giving Buffy. Spike is right, I think. They all have a bit of a death wish. Look, Buffy's been saking for how long? 5 or 6 years? How many people, some she knew, some she was friends with, get vamped or just outright killed? She has to see that the only way she gets to rest is to die. So, maybe not conciously, she does have a wish to die. Then it will all be over. And that line about Spike being beneath her...that was cold. If I were Spike, I would have tried to blow her to bits with a shotgun too. I really think we are going to get to see some very nice developemnt there soon.
**End Buffy Review***

**Pendragon Season Review**
First off, great job to all the writers and authors and everyon. I didn't start reading Pendragon till this season, but when I finnally got into it, I really liked it. This season has seen some nice development of the characters, and even hinted at some troubles for Clan Manhattan. We met lots of new characters, maybe too many at times, and got to see Merlin really sweating it a couple times. The season Fianle shows Pendragon and Clan at the point where they could be revealed as heroes and saviors, or reviled as assasssins and manipulators.Next season could be fun.

**end**

Which brings up the next question, and I know we are all wondering, is there an estimated start date for season three TGS?

***Begin rp****
Winter-Blade stood looking in on the quarters she had occupied at the Belfast Caern. Somall but not cramped, and private. A few pictures on the wall, a weapons cabinet in the corner. And of course, her bed, unmade. It was something she had picked up from her Grandfather. He had been a flyer in Engald during the Battle of Britain, and had told her that he and his squadron mates had done things like this to make sure they came back alive. "See, lass, the way we figured it, if we had something to come back for, say making our bunks and cleaning up, we would come back alive." She picked up the picuter of her grandfather that was sitting on the table. He had been one of the first of the Unificationists, putting aside his dislike of the British in order to keep the Germans at bay. "Grandfather, your dream is comming true." She set the picutre back down carefully. A bit of movement in the shadows caught her eye. The Rage that defined her race tried to seize control when she saw who it was. "Trying to make my job easy, Shadow?Wolf?" The wyrm-tainted wereewolf smiled and evil smile. "No, actually I'm here to ask you to join me. You have no idea what you are missing!" Winter snorted. "I know exactly what I am missing. Our kind are here to protect, ilke those Gargoyles. You turned your back on all that. You danced the Spiral, allowed yourself to become corrupted, the very thing we are here to fight." The pure plack werewolf sneered derisivly. "Protect? Come on, Winter, open your eyes. Aside from at one or two other Caerns like this, most other werewolves aer only concerned with surviving the next night." Winter advanced on ShadowWolf, drawing the Klaive she had secreted in her jacket. This caused ShadowWolf to laugh. "Come off it, Winter. We both know how you feel. I can see it in your eyes. You don't want to kill me. The elders are making you." He easily pushed aside the silver weapon and stepped very close to Winter. He spoke softly. "Come with me, and we can both have what we want, what _they_ forbid. It could all be ours, Winter." Winter struggled to keep herself from jumping at Shadow's offer. With a sigh she stepped back and brought the Klavie up again. ShadowWolf seemed amused, and somewhat dissappointed. "You are making a big mistake, Winter. There is a lot going on, and you will be hard pressed to survive it without help." "Your held, I don't need." She quickly shifted into her huge War Form and lunged at the tratorous ShadowWolf. "Have it your way." He stepped sideways to avoid her attack, then dissappeared in a silver flash as he took himself into the umbra and back to where ever he had come from. Winter let herself slip back into her human form and sat on her unmade bed. "I'm going to need help, he said. Well, I think I may know just the people to supply that help." She called WarFrost while she looked through her belongings. The Dire Wolf joined her as she found the object of her search, a small stone shard, a Questing Stone. It had been unable to find ShadowWolf, though Winter-Blade could not figure out why, but it should be able to show her where to find her help. "Stone, show me where I can find the Ravens." The stone shard hovered about an inch above her palm as it pointed her in the direction of her targets. 10 minutes later, she had stepped into the umbra and started her travel across the moonbridge.
***End RP****

Well, homework calls

Shade and Sweet Water


Archwolf - [<---Who I voed for]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 09:12:27 PM
IP: viking202-88.dhcp.csuohio.edu

Dang, Ent! I was starting to get worried... ;) Real post later, 'cause I've got a model cooking and my dad needs the computer in a bit...

He was a scrawny calf
who looked rather woozy
No one suspected
he was packing an Uzi...
-Unknown, "Cows with Guns"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 08:39:55 PM
IP: 209-223-253-134.ausa.net

*Lynati-the-Rushed Enters*

lain: umm...I was wearing the coat at the time, in case you didn't pick up on that...

*Lynati rushes off*
Lynati
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 07:59:22 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

**********Begin RP-Escape from Hell***********

He wasn't tired. For over three days, Four had laid off him, giving him the time to gather more power. It was almost time now, when he sensed her presence.
"So do you have enough power to get us both out of her?" Gasper shook his head, and once again began his meditation. "WHY NOT! I'm just as desperate to get out of her as you are. And I didn't train and become a nice being to be left in this dingey place."
"Quite whining," was the only words that came from his mouth. "You and I have been training because we had nothing better to do. Now, it's time I go."
"Who'd have thought the good guys could be this callous."
"Who was gonna blow up my home. I'm tired of answering to you first of all, second, you're the one who sent me here-"
"You attacked first."
"YOU WERE GONNA BLOW UP OUR PLANET!"
"FINE!" Four looked at him, then walked off. "Stupid earthlings, I'll find my own way out." Gasper felt the other presence close in. It was a rotting feeling, one he'd never felt before, but figured would come around someday.
Getting up, he looked at the being that was coming towards him with little fear.
"So you think you can leave?"
"You bet your sweet bitty. What do you want?" The Lord of Flies shifted his weight, waving the flies away from his blood red eyes.
"King Youma has been pestering me for a while now, and you are to return to Earth's Check-in Station. From there, you will be resurrected and about on your merry way."
"What's the deal."
"You don't belong here. There are specific rules I must abide by, and it looks like your Kami-Sama has decided you need to be brought back, for whatever reason, I don't know or care. That's all I have to say though, oh, and by the way, if you see Mephisto, do kill him. I'd love to torture him." Gasper blinked, and nodded his head. Beezelbub turned and vanished in a flurry of insects and flies. As suddenly as he'd once found himself in Hell, he was now in a palace setting. A large desk sat in front of him, along with a large man with ox horns on his hat.
"So this is the little Dragoon that caused one of the Ten so much trouble. I like your style kid."
"Uh....er...uh...yeah. I...try." The giant shifted his papers around, and then looked into his book.
"Well kid, your time wasn't up and Kami-sama put in a good word for you. In anycase, out that door is the living world. You go out that, and stay outta trouble, and we won't meet again till you are supposed to be dead, got that?"
"You do me great honor your Highness." The Dragoon bowed to the giant, then covered his ears from the boisterous, thundering laughter.
"Thank your Kami-sama, and get out of here." Backing away, Gasper bowed one more time, saying another thank you, then walked out the door slowly.
Again, he was suddenly in another place, in front of a familiar construct of metal that he had missed dearly. The Dragoon smiled, then shot a look up at the faraway tower and whispered a silent thank you to one of his mentors. Typing in his security code, the ramp descended and the smells of the StormRunner came back to him. For as long as it was hidden, the ship itself was in rather good condition, and as he flipped the final pre-flight switch, the rumble of the deckplate brought him the final sense. The Sense of Home.
*******END RP*********

Sappy ain't it....well, I had to make a way out, and looks like I finally did. Howdy all, if anyone's watching. So, what's new with everything

Buffy/Angel---First season I've really watched, and so far, I'm very impressed with it, though I REALLY wanted to see the Dracula Episode. So yesterday's was good, the two parter was helpful to explain some history.

Kyryn- I like your spare time activity, especially that compass. The mesh of colors especially looks professional.
On Religion- 3 Questions Religion tries and in some cases DOES answer.
1. Where did I come from?
2. Why am I here?
3. Where will I go when I die?

Snow...we need it up here in Minnesota. It's the middle of November, and we've only had a couple light dustings. What's wrong with this picture? We've got the cold weather, and the frost...but...no snow? Why?

Kami-Sama Only Hopes There is a Decision 2000: I think it's time we pull back that pesky amendment about term limits...make it so that Clinton can just stay in for atleast 2 more years till this whole mess is cleared up...c'mon! 10 years is okay! And by 2002, we'll know who's won the Election in 2000 and we won't have to worry about Evil Clone Hick one and Evil Clone Hick two for a while longer.

And finally, College-Registration hath come once again...I register tomorrow...and it started yesterday...and Bowling is ALREADY FULL! I'm a fourth year student, and I can't get into Bowling?! Ah well, Badmiton sounds like more fun, and I'll get a better work out anyway. On the other hand, yeah, I'm a fourth year student, and I'll be here for a while...but, it's best not to rush and get a job you don't want, so this is probably the best thing...***End mindless Ramble.****

Brain fry...I'd best just go. Anyway, needed to get that RP out, sorry for the length. Later folks.
Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 07:39:54 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

**lain enters, still wearing the bear suit**

Hey guys, I have just been witness to one of the funniest things I have EVER seen in Canadian politics.. You see, the leader of the Alliance party, dear old Stockwell Day, has proposed that were his party to be elected, he would impliment a program by which, should a petition be able to gather 350,000 signatures it would be cause enough to hold a National Referendum. Now, in dealing with politicians in this country, we have this wonderful medium called "This Hour Has 22 Minutes" which has been our weekly dose of political satire for nearly eight years. In response to this rather ludicrous proposal put forth by Stock, the team at This Hour has put together an online petition which states that, should it gather enough signatures, it would force the government of Canada to make Stockwell Day change his first name to "Doris".

So.. all Canadians , hurry to www.22minutes.com. At last check, there were 188,640 signatures...

!!
Love,
lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 07:25:24 PM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

Now that season 3 of Pendragon is over, I was wondered if anyone knows when season 3 of the TGS Gargoyles series was going to begin.

BTW, I want to thank everyone who puts time in to write for TGS. You're doing a great job.
Steve - [nyyankees2536]
New York, New York
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 07:25:10 PM
IP: spider-wq082.proxy.aol.com

In case you couldn't figure it out, those responses following Azrael's are to Gunjack. Forgot to say so.
Entity
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 06:45:38 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Azrael> <<<That depends on to which “readers” you refer. I know some who truly “follow” Socrates.>>> Yeah, but who's considered the aberration, for Sacrates and the Bible, respectively? The one who reads it or the one who "follows" it?

<<<Yep, he does. God gave me his, too. Its called prayer and faith.>>> Don't -you- give those to -him-?

<<<Hey, I remember that one, too. I was the one in my class who got it right.>>> I would've, but I gave into peer pressure. ;)

<<<What they found out was that they needed “faith” in what the teacher told them, and for that lack of faith, they didn’t pass the “test.”>>> Well, I think the lesson was actually merely obedience. Teachers hand those tests out when their patience thins. ;) But seriously, did your classmates get kicked out of school for failing that test? No, because the point was to learn from it. God's way of administering his "test" doesn't allow for a second chance.

<<<What, they weren’t the least suspicious about this talking reptile?>>> So, they were punished for being too stupid to be suspicious?

<<<The Catholics, after all, believe in Purgatory.>>> As an alternative to Hell, not an incarnation of it. And a rare one, at that. What's your view?

<<<A personality is made up of four things: Emotions, Feelings, Ideals, and Beliefs.>>> *whistle* Very nice. I like that breakdown.

<<<If Good couldn't win, and following the Truth would enevitably lead to ultimate suffering, then why is it "Truth", and why should it be followed?>>> Therein lies the conflict. If Truth and God are in conflict, that is a paradox that must be alleviated. Since Truth would be subject to God if there was one, the only conclusion can be that God really isn't God. Truth should be followed in spite of the suffering because the suffering is brought upon by an outside force, an impersonator, not something that is supposed to be.

<<<You gave a good answer, but assuming the god wouldn't rellent...>>> It's easier for me to proclaim this from the dark, when I cannot know for sure, because in the back of my mind I can still be crossing my fingers hoping that it'll be different... but the short answer is that I'd still resist.

Re: Star Trek> <<<Witness the death.>>> I already did, with "First Contact." To me, this is just tossing the corpse around with a shovel in its grave.

Back to good ol' theology. <<<I was wondering if you agree that God can't change his nature.>>> Ah, yes. When I said it was for him to decide, I really didn't mean that he could swap natures like sport coats, but rather that his nature was outside all restrictions. If you had to create a nature for him, then I'd go for: His nature is lack of one. It's like psycho-analyzing God. How should you be able to do that? You shouldn't. God shouldn't have a "personality," or anything else that makes him in any way subjective.

<<<The Universe is built on top of them (and so cannot have created them)>>> Weeell... no. Our understanding of how the universe operates is based on them. The universe isn't based on them.

<<<Also, an attendent problem is the idea that perfect order (which is what the physical Laws represent, yes?) can arrise from chaos.>>> I'm not sure I'm following this. You're saying that for order to come from chaos, it would have to be flawless?

<<<Or do you not believe the statement "There are no straight lines in nature"?>>> I do believe it. And doesn't it support the idea of chaos as a foundation?

<<<I can understand collapsing matter and possibly energy, but when the matter starts collapsing, how can it drag in the UNIVERSE after it?>>> There are either two possibilities. Either it -doesn't- drag the universe, only the matter and energy, meaning all that's left is nothingness (which is what space is, right?). With all matter and energy removed from the picture, all physical laws might collapse, with nothing to support them anymore. The other possibility is that, since the universe has to end in order for this hypothesizing to work at all, the way in which the universe is contained has something to do with it. Since we don't know what would be beyond the universe, we can't speculate, but it could redefine space all together, and make it possible for the universe itself to contract. Or how about this? Following the first possibility, after all the laws of physics are gone, the universe ceases to be?

<<<The difference is, I claim that that layer is actually the plate the cake rests on (God), and you claim that it's another layer of cake.>>> Why do I get another layer while you get a plate? I don't get the difference.

<<<My position escapes this problem by saying that God exists OUTSIDE the Universe, but you say (I think...) that "the Universe is all there is, or ever was, or ever will be".>>> To as far as I'm comprehending this, I think you might be starting to best me...

<<<It seems both logical and perfectly fair. If you ask, he promises to listen (though you may not like the answer). If you don't speak, there's nothing to listen to.>>> I guess I thought we were looking at the same conclusion, but apparently, we're both looking at it differently. Way I see it, it can't be fair to put one person's fate into another's hand. What if you were some lowly, shy, friendless kid who lived in an orphanage, and one day you needed God to help you, but since no one knows you, no one prayed?

<<<So, if one religion describes the room better than another, the difference can be measured by the number of whacks and bruises caused by following the less-accurate religion, yes?>>> So, if some dolt wants to bloody his knees by following another religion, shouldn't that be his perrogative? Is it because all the bangs and bruises have interfered with you getting close enough to God to qualify for heaven, and thus, by definition, you get Hell? Yet again, we see eternity decided by IQ rather than character.

<<<If there was no TRUTH, I'd be dead inside six weeks; either from suicide or homicide. Why? :)>>> Well, your statement begged the question. Personally, I'm unsure if there is Truth or not, but I wouldn't commit suicide either way. I've gotten past the melo-depressant stage. Life's more pettier concerns involve me now, which maybe is for the better.

That's about all for up to this point. If anything I glossed over you really wanted a response to, just say so, but I think I've addressed all the pertinant matters that are of interest to both of us.
Entity
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 06:41:20 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Hi!!!! ^_~

*observes ongoing Holly War* Well...you guys been buisy... :P

James> aw, missed ya too! :)

Sevarius Jr> <<"Sevarius Jr.: The Animated Series">> Sevarious, hun, you scare me....thats freakyer than the Cali show! :P

Gunjack Valentine> <<THIS MUCH! *spreads his arms really, really wide* :) Welcome back!>> LOL Aw, Thanx! Its good to be missed! *HUGZ* :)

Robby> <<Lain>> Yeah, she is scary...but the scariest thing about the series, were those teddy suit PJs the girl used.....now THAT was scary... :P

Winterwolf> Yey!!! Smothering Fuzzy Hugz!!! My favorites!!! *HUGZ* :P <<If you want the previous week of CR stuff click on the link at the top of the room! It reads: Last week's Comment Room. ;)>> *gives you a swift playfull kick* I KNOW THAT you goober, I ment the week before last!!! :P~~~ *razz* <Roswell> Oooo no, I didnt miss last week or this week!!! Those were neet! But thy already killed off all the skins, whos the new bad guys gonna be?! <<Hey you're exotic? Can I get a dance or something then?>>LOL I ment exotic looking or something, not exotic dancer! But if you want a dance, sure, wich do you like better, the Hokie pokie or the funky chiken?! :P <<Anime con>> Aw I didnt get to go! Its all because of my dang anti-con curse I tell ya! My ride's car broke down :( A well, maybe next year? who knows! :P Hey, I was in NY waiting at the air port for 3 hours on Sunday, where were you huh? :P

Buffy/Angel stuff:

MY GAWD! That Buffy's a B....female dog! :P How could she say that to Spike! Your beneth me!? And he cried!!! I was actualy rooting for Buffy to die for once! Now what I want to know is how can Spike have such compasionate feelings if HE doesnt have a soul...maybe since he cant kill he's growing a new one? *shrugs* Angel was cool too, I loves all the flash backs but when they said Buffy/Angel special a was kindda hoping for a lil Buffy/Angel interaction. Oh, I also think that the Chinese Slayer Spike killed was MUCH cooler than Buffy...I donno why she isnt dead yet if he could kill that other slayer. Oh, and the scooby squad on patrol with Riley sceen was SO funny! Oh and I have to agree with SJ...ENOUGH with the slow walk towards the camera!!! Sheesh! Its took them long enough the first time! I was kindda expecting Spike to fall flat on his face or something in Angel's flash back of "the Walk", ya know, something he "forgot" to mention to Buffy in an attempt to look cooler...but thats just the goofyness in me peeking through :P ummm...thats it! :P

Gside> Happy aniversary then! That is amazing how you know the exact time! I dont even remember that day...or even the month...heck, i THINK it was last year I first started comming, but I'm not sure :P

Alrighty! Gotta book it! I'll see ya guys!!! *HUGZ all and scoots out*
Caliope
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 02:29:47 PM
IP: 136.145.83.177

Whoops! Lost my color and pic for the post below.
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:47:52 PM
IP: exofw.aicpa.org

****Kyryn appears.****

Sevarius Jr.> I think that I may just join you on that observatory. *wink* I'll bring some of the high-powered stuff. *Sigh* This whole mess went from being historical to hysterical several days ago. Now I'm at the point that I just shake my head and roll my eyes whenever anyone mentions it.

Warpmind> <fight> From your description, I would figure that you put up your left arm to block the guy's knife, then managed to grab his hand and yank him towards you (hyperextending and spraining the elbow). You probably then backfisted him in the face (breaking the teeth), stomped on his knee (dislocating it) and kicked him in the ribs (fracturing the ribs). Hey, you did pretty good for a knife fight. My instructors always told me that if you ever get into a fight with someone with a knife you are going to get cut: not may -- are. Look at it this way, at least most people will be less likely to bother you now that you have a bit of a reputation.

G'side or Wilek> You asked what I'm doing with the black hole? It's a very small black hole. It actually belongs to Okami. It's supposed to be in use to power a weapon that destroys solar systems. I can't say any more than that since it involves his unpublished universe.

BTW, if anyone wants to know what I do in my "copious" amounts of spare time, click on my name for a link to my projects page and scroll down to the bottom for the most current project. Traveller and Taleweaver, you'll probably both love my current project.

Later All!

****Kyryn disappears.****
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:46:43 PM
IP: exofw.aicpa.org

*Warpmind enters, scritching his reddish beard.*
Ack, my beard is a shade of red, while my hair is dark brown... it's to dye for, really... :|

Gunjack Valentine: My training history? Umm... well... *ponder* Not much, really... Maybe twenty hours in all of general Martial Arts instructions from a friend (when I say general, I mean things that most styles have in common), plus an unknown amount of time mimicking moves I've seen in movies. That is, Jackie Chan and Jet Lee movies. (I tried Bruce Lee movies for a short period, but for cryin' out loud, the guy was too fast for the CAMERA!) As for your knives in your dreams... well, can't help you there. But do be on the lookout for some heavy swords and axes, aye? Local tools might be more efficient... ];)

Revel: Yeah, it IS fun to walk away from a brawl almost flawlessly, isn't it? ]:) (I've yet to lose a fight - either I mutilate my adversary, or I outrun him, it seems...)

Winterwolf: Well, there *might* be a way... *Steps out for a moment, then returns with what seems to be a length of metal string, slipping over to Winterwolf and bending it to loosely fit his face. Then he disappears, before returning with a mask made of cotton compressed around the wireframe.* Lessee... yeah, this should fit. Problem is, you cn't really move your jaw in it, so... I'll leave the rubber bands hnging loose, so you can remove it by yourself, aye? ;)

Winterwolf's riddle: 80 of the marbles are identical, one is heavier than the others... hmmm... well, if one is heavier than the others, the size alone should give it away, since it would be over 80 times as large as any of the other marbles... ]:) Am I right?

Kit: Heh, the whole situation is working out marvellously. Though, I am a bit upset I took that goon on barehanded. We duked it out in the middle of a *machine shop* for cryin' out loud! With all the heavy metal objects at my disposal, I floor him unarmed? *Sigh* ];) Oh, and it seems the whole episode is just going to be swept under the rug - I had "defense cuts" as the doc called them, so... seems you can't get those when you're the aggressor... :)

Ah, finally, SJ has RP'ed... and I figure this plot thread is getting old, so I'll just jump straight to the conclusion in the RP segment at the end of the post... By the way... love the Shatner bit. ]:)

Azarah: *Wheezes, gasps for air* Th... thanks for the hug... *wheeze* ;) Looking forward to getting that e-mail, too... :)

**RP**
A short discussion later, SJ and Sammael were staring fiercely at each other across a table, five dice lying in a row between them. Warpmind scribbled down their names on top of the score sheet and nodded to Kari, who held a quarter.
"Flip for first roll. You know the rules."
Sammael yelped "HEADS!" as Kari flipped the coin. It skidded into the air before ploinking down on the table, tail side up.
"SJ begins, then. We're running out of time, so we'll keep this simple - straightforward rolls, Yahtzees applicable at any time."
SJ picked up the dice and rolled them.
"One, three, three, five and six? I'm supposed to have ones, now, right? Rotten luck..."
"You have three rolls per turn. Place the one aside and roll the others again."
"Oh. Right."
Almost an hour later, Sammael rolled the dice for the last time.
"And that concludes the game... now, gentlemen, I will calculate the points and announce the winner."
Warpmind quickly filled in the blanks, mumbling to himself as her reached the end of SJ's column.
"SJ's got... 146 points. Sammael..."
His pencil skipping from square to square, Warpmind stared slackjawed at the sum at the bottom of the sheet.
"SJ with 146 points, Sammael with 146 points. The game is a draw."
Sammael and SJ rose from the table so fast their chairs were flung backwards, while Traveller and CC were rolling on the floor, laughing.
"WHAT?"
"Now, don't worry... all this means is that neither of you lose the duel... and all that's left for Kari now is to make her choice..."
Traveller and CC climbed up, supporting themselves on the table, and five pairs of eyes focused on Kari.
"So, m'lady, who's it gonna be?"
**RP END**
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:09:21 PM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

* BUFFY/ANGEL SPOILERS *

Both good episodes tonight, with some effective flashbacks.

BUFFY: I got a chuckle out of the discovery that Spike had been, before he became a vampire, a "Caspar Milquetoast"-style bespectacled gentleman-poet (and not a very good one, either; one of the funniest parts was the revelation of the real reason why he was known as "William the Bloody"); now that's something that I don't think any of us saw coming.

I found the end a quite effective scene - and I'm starting to understand all the better now why Spike's been showing a strong animosity towards Buffy in a lot of the past scenes this season. She's somehow been bringing out a gentler, more compassionate part of him that the old "ruthless vampire" side of him doesn't want.

I've got to admit, the Chaos Demon was different from what I'd expected when Spike first mentioned him in Season Three - but quite entertaining, all the same. Not too often that you see demons getting nervous at being caught in the middle of a lovers' spat :)

And somebody REALLY ought to tell Xander to leave the snacks at home next time the Scoobies go out on patrol :)

ANGEL: Also a great episode (although one nit with the opening flashback - were there any women in the Virginia Colony? I'd always been under the impression that it had been just men who went there when it was founded - the purpose of the Virginia Colony, as I recall from my American history, was to look for gold in Virginia - they didn't find any either - rather than to start an actual community, unlike, say, the Plymouth Colony some years later).

I've got to admit that the Boxer Rebellion flashback took on a whole new meaning in "Angel", when I suddenly realized what I'd overlooked in "Buffy" - it was taking place *after* the gypsies gave Angel his soul back. Something which gave a different light to Angel's words and actions in it.

And I also LOL at the bit where Spike unwittingly undercuts Darla's threat to the gypsies - especially his letting out a belch while exiting the wagon :)

The development of Darla's character as now a human once more has been quite effective and unexpected - and I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with her and Angel in future episodes.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 06:58:24 AM
IP: 216.87.46.239.dialup-stl.primary.net

**lain enters, wearing the teddy bear suit**
hi all. Not too much to say today, but maybe a few things

DPH>> free email.. I got one at "zap zone" once. It was Nadia@alterego.zzn.com I think you can make your address "@anythingyouwant.zzn.com so it is pretty cool.. I dunno if that is useful..

Gunjack>> about the universe collapsing and how it would take all the matter back in with it.. well.. last _I_ heard, the universe _had_ all the matter we knew about inside it so it wouldn't be taking the matter in after it, it _is_ the matter..
And besides that, I think the latest theory is that the universe is going to continue to expand until it reaches absolute zero and everything dies, because all indications of the Red Shift tell that the rate of expansion in the universe is increasing, not slowing down as would be expected in the "big bang, big crunch" scenario.

I think it is fairly useless to debate about when Adam and Eve became mortal because I think it is just a story.. (Atheist-brain attack!!! My atheist-brain has been winning out over faith-brain quite a bit, lately)
******HOPEFULLY NOT OFFENSIVE BUT RATHER AMUSING DESCRIPTIONS OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS******
Ever seen that poster about "religious views of life??" If not, it goes something like this:
Taoism:
$h!t happens
Confucianism:
Confucias says, $h!t happens
Buddhism:
If $h!t happens, it isn't really $h!t
Zen:
What is the sound of $h!t happening?
Hindusm:
This $h!t happened before
Islam:
If $h!t happens, it is the will of Allah
Protestantism:
Let $h!t happen to someone else
Catholicism:
If $h!t happens, you deserve it
Judaism:
Why does this $h!t always happen to us?
Atheism:
I don't believe this $h!t
Agnisticism:
What is this $h!t?

my favourite one, of course, is the atheist one ;)

*****END HOPEFULLY NOT OFFENSIVE HOPEFULLY SLIGHTLY AMUSING RELIGIOUS VIEWS********

Warpmind>> SUPERDUPER HUGS!!!!!!! And massive sending of friendly vibes of healing and stuff :):):):):) I haven't mailed you in awhile but.. maybe I will think about that soon :):) In the meantime HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGS!!!!!

Lynati>> Your snazzeroo coat was ducttaped to the floor????!!!??!?!?!?! that is DEFINATELY smelly.. I have a shiny buff looking matrix-esque coat that gets me to and from my night classes safely, too, and I would be TERRIBLY miffed if something like that happened to my coat.. I think you should get them to get you a new one..

That's mostly it for now.. and I really hope no one takes any offense to the Religious quotes... I don't think anyone will but.. I thought it was worth a little funny, light hearted chuckle.
:)

Also..you know, DC has never really bothered me.. I dunno why.. So I guess that's why I feel the need to stand up for the poor guy, you know how you always feel sorry for wile-e coyote? Or Spike? they are jerks sometimes but you can't help but feel sorry for them when they get the schieza schmucked outta them.. (oooo.. I should go to bed soon..)
Speaking of poor Spike.. Buffy is such a JERK to him, geez woman, leave the poor immortal semi bad-a$$ alone! ;) (Spike is my fav.. are we sensing a theme here? Hmmm.. maybe it's cause I was picked on in school.. yeah.. that must be it..)
Aaaaaaanyway.. I will attempt some sleep, though it never works. I think I have this one figured out, too. I don't trust anyone here (and for many an excellent reason I dare say..), therefore I am always sleeping on high alert, just in case I get attacked in the night or something. My sleep is therefore never restful and it turns into a huuuuuuge self-perpetuating cycle.. That might sound dumb but I bet that is EXACTLY what is going on..
so..
Love,
lain/Azarah - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 02:21:52 AM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Thanks Fire Storm... I may have to do that. ::grins:: just hope I never learn how to write nasty lil bugs to sic on them ;)

::wanders off looing for new ways to annoy her school administration::
Aingeal - [aingealkelly@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 01:19:41 AM
IP: 207.42.162.18

Aingeal: The latest issue of the hacker magazine 2600 (Volume 17, Number 3) tells of a nice way to bypass blockers.

I can't and won't describe what it does in detail. If ya wanna find out, go to Borders and buy a copy.


More later.
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 01:04:09 AM
IP: pppa55-resaledetroit4-1r7230.saturn.bbn.com

Just going to make a few Buffy/Angel observations:

**BUFFY/ANGEL SPOILERS**

Buffy: I loved this episode - although the ending bothered me a little bit. (Well, the fact that Ruth was having a fit beside me kind of influenced that feeling.) I know in some ways it fit with the tragedy of Spike's existence, but for him to go all gung-ho to kill her and then sit down beside her to comfort her... it didn't fit. I would have had less of a problem with it had he just decided not to kill her - I thought he just saw that "death wish" he talked about in her eyes and decided not to repeat the cycle. (Ruth, who just wants James Marsters for herself, was just pissed off. Well, she tolerated my hissy fits when "Now and Again" episodes ended with Lisa furious at Michael...)

That aside, I loved this episode. Loved it. Great writing and directing, especially in the cutting back and forth between the present and Spike's battle with the Slayer on the subway. It's ironic - bitterly ironic - that after years of being afraid that the supernatural will threaten those she cares about, Buffy has to deal with the possibility that something completely un-Hellmouth-related may be threatening her mother's life.

Angel was also excellent, especially since it fleshed out the flashbacks (I didn't think Angelus would have been so un-enthused about the death of a Slayer), and it was amusing that Spike and Dru accidentally crushed Darla's plans to get Angelus back. *snerk* While the flashbacks were a major part of the story, I was disappointed in the lack of Gunn, Wes, and Cordy, who have become a great supporting cast on the show. (Okay, I could have just settled for more Gunn. So sue me.)

I too hope they don't kill Kate off next week. But I hope that she gets some sense knocked into her. Her determination to get Angel is irritating, and it was so obvious that Wolfram and Hart were playing her when she conveniently got Angel's new address.

**END SPOILERS!**
Mandolin - [weird_web@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 01:00:27 AM
IP: 144.175.21.16

::smiles down at Wolf:: I was getting bored... wanted to find new and interesting ways to drive you farther nutty than you are...

::grins out at people:: thanks to all those who welcomed me... it's nice to be noticed. But... I think I wil follow Cat's lead for now and not dive into the religious debate... tho I love getting into it at times.. can be fun to share opinions...

I'm still a lil lost.. but I've got limited access to stuff... I'm going to blow up the school server... I CAN"T ACCESS ANYTHING!!!!!!! if anyone knows an easy way to circumvent Iprism filtering.. please let me know...I'm going nuts... it labels TGS as "adult" and thus blocked!!

LIKE I"M NOT A FRICKING ADULT BY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

::subsides:: ok... now that i've gone off again I'll calm down for now.. I really really want to learn how to do more so that I can deal with this crap... it's annoying.. LIKE I"M GOING TO GO PORN SURFING!...I'm an artist.. it doesn't have any artistical content.. thus no interest...::grumbles:: but we've got to make sure that people don't access adult sites... heck the TEACHERS are blocked ::shakes head and sharpens knives:: freaks will have to deal with me someday... heh

::turns from falcon into puma and paces, then dragon, torches the school server, then subsides back into falcon::

::looks sheepish:: ok.. I'm really calm now... really I am...::wanders over to perch next to Cat:: Hiya sis.

::sits back to watch people in the room, and contemplate next crazy action to take on people she knows::
Aingeal - [aingealkelly@yahoo.com]
hickville, VA
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:51:42 AM
IP: 207.42.162.18

***BEGIN RP***
SJ grinned broadly. "Hey! Traveler and CC are here!"
Warpmind gave the two a stern look. "Yes, and trying to break into my armory at that. Shame on the both of you."
"Look at this!" Sammael exclaimed. He was still thumbing through the genealogy book that Warpmind had given him earlier. "This is amazing! Did you know that I'm related to Will Shatner?"
"What??" Kari asked. She looked over his shoulder at the page he was focused on. "No way."
"It's true. Apparently he's part of the family. Third cousin, once removed."
"Shatner's really a demon?" SJ said. "Wow. You know, that does explain quite a bit...."
"We're almost ready!" Warpmind interrupted. "Now, if I can just remember where I left that game of Yahtzee."
Traveler gasped. "Yahtzee? You're playing Yahtzee?"
"Yes. Why?"
Traveler gave them a horrified look. "It's only the most evil board game ever invented. Do you know how many Yahtzee related deaths there are?"
***END RP*****

Well, it's the 14th of November, and we still don't have a president. We're getting there....maybe. Or maybe the courts will decide it all. Do we really even need a President? I'm beginning to think we don't.

I will say 2 things about the ongoing fustercluck that is the 2000 election:
1. If I hear the words "will of the people" one more goddamned time, I'm heading to the top of the observatory and a rifle.
2. Green Baron, you'll be happy to know that I'll be breaking Dr. Kevorkian out of prison later on this week. Yep, he and I are going to take a little "road trip" to Palm Beach County. You're welcome to join if you want.
Our first stop will be at Mr. Warren Christopher's house. (If the good doctor asks, Warren has been *very, very* sick lately ;)

Movie News: Charlie's Angels continues to dominate the box office here in North America. Has anyone done a review of this movie yet?
And Adam Sandler's movie, "Little Nicky", suprisingly only took in 18 million dollars at the box office. But I've heard that he's called for an official hand-count from every theater in the country. ;)

More Cartoon Goodness: While Fox seems intent on screwing up good animation (prime example--dumping the superior Escaflowne for Nascar Racers (NASCAR RACERS!!! They deserve to be castrated!!!), the Cartoon Network is doing things RIGHT. They've just green-lighted a Justice League of America animated series by Bruce Timm. I can't wait. Hell, if it's half as good as Super Friends, I'll be happy.

Adam and Eve mortality: Well, you can interpret this in one of two ways: They were either immortal until they ate from the tree, or they were never truly immortal and thus became "mortal" once they left the garden. The Bible is somewhat vague on this. God tells them not to eat from the Tree in Chapter 2 of Genesis, or they will surely die. Then when he curses mankind, He gives his "dust of the earth" speech. You can interpret it that mankind was immortal until they ate of the Tree, or you can believe that mankind was never really immortal, just "preserved" mortals who became "normal" once they left the garden. I'm not the best at theology, but I don't know if the Bible says one way or the other which theory is definite.

No longer a wonderful day in the neighborhood: Yes, folks, it's the end of an era. Mr. Rogers is retiring. The man beloved by millions of children is finally calling it quits. It's sad in a way.
Then again, Fred always creeped me out a little. Train to Make Believe Land? Dude must have dropped a LOT of acid back in the 60s.

REALLY sad news: Well, I spoke too prematurely. They've canceled my series. Alas, the world will not be seeing the genius that would have been "Sevarius Jr.: The Animated Series". Apparently, the folks over at Disney disapproved of my use of transsexual midgets and Mexican lucha libre wrestlers (Networks be damned, any show of mine MUST feature El Santo prominently!). Eh, what can you do.
However, Gunjack was right. The WB HAS picked up "Pistoff's Children's Hour". The first show, which is absolutely spectacular, features Harlan Ellison and Hunter S. Thompson. In a steel cage!
(Seriously, Fred, I only *wish* they'd give you your own show! Finally, a reason to turn on the television! :)

***X-FILES MINI-REVIEW***
What can I say? It looks like somebody took the writers of show and beat them with sock full of soap bars, Full Metal Jacket style, because I'm actually interested in the series again. Some good writing on this episode, with some excellent acting done by all the leads. The alien bountyhunters are as creepy as ever, Scully is great as the tough-yet-vulnerable heroine, Doggett ain't too bad as the new skeptic, and Skinner....Well, Skinner just always kicks ass. Hopefully, those alien bastards didn't burn his eyes out.

Next week it's back to the usual "monster of the week", but it should be interesting to see how Scully and Doggett get along investigating an X-File.
***END MINI-REVIEW***

***BUFFY AND ANGEL SPOILERS***

BUFFY: Ladies and Gentlemen, I have a new favorite episode for the season.

I'll admitt, I'm a big Spike fan. And with that said, I honestly think that tonight's Buffy was one of the best the show has done in quite some time. Perhaps some of the finest work done period, in terms of character development.
Make no mistake, tonight's show was for the Spike fans in the audience. This was a powerful episode. We learn Spike's origin, and get amazing insight into his inner psyche. Let's start from the top.

I personally find it fascinating that Spike started as a timid poet rather than the Sid Vicious clone that he is now. I found his initial rejection by "high society" to be very painful. You can't help but feel for him, because every knows what he just went through. Because we've all felt it before. But William's difference is that he welcomed the change to vampirism to give up all of his pain and anguish. As we get to see more of Spike, with Angel and the gang, a thought struck me--I wonder if Spike doesn't have a death wish. He's obsessed with the Slayers--he's killed two, and in love with the third--and it makes me feel that, deep down, perhaps he either wants to ultimately lose the cat-and-mouse game or maybe he must face the Slayers so that he can overcome the fear that holds him. Ultimately, Spike is a tragic figure. He's committed some awful, horrible things in his unlife, but he carries around a tremendous sadness, and ultimately he's all alone inside himself. I don't know if he has any inner direction left. He seems lost, with a distorted view of his place in the world. And the final moments of the show....he's ready to kill the Slayer--but he chooses not too. She's vulnerable, and instead of taking advantage of the situation, he attempts to comfort her. An excellent, and somehow fitting ending to the show. After this episode, though, you can't help but look at Spike in a new light. He's a very complex character, much more so than I, at least, thought. Kudos to James Marsters, who gives the best damn performance I've ever seen him give.

Things of Note:
* My personal theory is that Spike told Buffy his life story so that she would perhaps understand him and maybe give him sympathy.
* He may have a bizarre S&M thing going on with her (he enjoys the pain a little too much).
* Spike brough up a good point--Buffy has become too overconfident.
* Spike killed Cleopatra Jones!!! ;)
* Joyce may be more seriously ill than we figured...
* Riley may be going off the deep end. Grenades are a little messy when it comes to killing your garden variety bloodsucker.

Overall, a GREAT episode. Excellent writing, exceptionally excellent acting (Mr. Marsters, you continue to impress), a wonderful show. Perfect 10 outta 10. :)

ANGEL: Another fine episode as well! Although this show wasn't really so much a "crossover", as the ads claimed, but it did continue the theme. Some good acting on both David's part and by Julie Benz as Darla. She really works hard in this one. From the human Darla beginning to crack over the weight of having a soul, to the flashbacks of her origin and life as a vampire, she does a wonderful job.

All of the flashback scenes were very well done. One thing that I liked especially was the "two sides of the story" approach they took. What I'm talking about: On Buffy, Spike took Angel's remarks in China to mean that he (Angel) was jealous of him (Spike) for killing a Slayer, when in reality (as we see on Angel), Angel was just ticked because he had a soul and was upset by Spike's murderous ways.

Some fine development between Darla and Angel. Angel is far too preoccupied with Darla--almost to the point of obsession--and thus played right into Wolfram and Hart's game. Are they soulmates? I'd like this point to be addressed further. They might be....but then Darla has to show her selfish side and ask Angel to return the "favor" and make her a vamp once again. He has the best line of the episode. "Favor? Is that what you think this is, a favor? You *damned* me."

Overall, another fine episode. One of the best of the season. I'll give it a 9, 9.5. :)

Things of Note:
* Is Lindsey really in love with Darla? Or is it really more of an infatuation?
* What exactly is the game that Wolfram and Hart are playing? Are they out to convert Angel? What are their true motivations?
* ENOUGH with the slow walk towards the camera!!! Jesus, if I had to see that slow motion glamour shot walk towards the camera one more time....
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:04:29 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Wrong color again the first time. :( Shows how stressed out I am, doesn't it? <sighs>
Kit
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:10:46 PM
IP: pool-63.52.167.81.dlls.grid.net

Begin Part 2!

Cat: Like I said above, welcome to the CR! Please forgive me if I refrain from commenting on your life hassles. I have so many in my own life right now I barely have time to even consider other people's. <sigh> And yet I still try to remain caught up… Good story ideas, good luck with them. Hope to read the finished products someday.

**BUFFY, ANGEL SPOILERS**
Thanks again for the teasers, SJ. The episodes themselves were excellent now that I've seen them. Whedon's done it again. :) Great flashbacks in both, liked Buffy's especially. Good to see Spike as tragic and human even though he's a vampire. The fights with the Slayers were very well-scripted and -coreographed. Liked the chaos demon too, he was funny. In the present, we had great Buffy and Spike development, especially in the conversation concerning death wishes. The end scene between them was also very touching. I wouldn't be surprised if Spike gets worried about Buffy's mom too, he's had intimate conversations with her before. Hmm. :) Great emotional acting on the part of the stars, in body language especially like Lynati said. The bits with Anya and Harmony were also nice, and good scenes with Riley. The gesture scene made me laugh out loud, though it didn't have me grinning as much as "You're beneath me!" Heh! Dawn's bit about when she gets to patrol was also hilarious. Looking forward to Glory's comeback next week, hope she's more endurable this time. For now, I'll take watching the tape of this week's ep and its excellent developments over and over again.

Angel also had excellent flashbacks. They made the ones in Buffy make a lot more sense, and were often funny too. Loved Darla's threatening the gypsy and then having Spike ruin things. The episode's script was great, and so were its modern character developments. Lindsay had some more good moments, I enjoyed seeing his reaction to being tested by Manners and the Wolfram & Hart gang. Maybe this will make him change his mind again about the whole villainy thing. Maybe. The Darla development was good too, I loved getting to see her past and the Master again. That guy may be a cliched villain, but he's a fun one. Especially with Mark Metcalf's acting. Lots of good tragic elements woven into Darla's character too in this one, I gained some real sympathy for her and hope this is not the last we see of her. Angel always has great character development when dealing with crazy women, this go-round was no exception. Liked the dialogue near the end about her being made a vampire again or not especially. Hope that when Darla does come back she gets to meet Faith, that would be one hell of a cool scene. Especially if they had a soul-revealing conversation. :) Wish we'd seen more Gunn, Cordy, and Wes in this one, but the Angel flashbacks and development on him and Darla were entertaining enough. Next week's ep looks like it will be good too, looking forward to it. Just hope they don't kill Kate.
**THESE SPOILERS END**

Hmm, I've reached the top that quickly. :( Oh well, I have to be in bed anyway. If only so I can get some much-needed rest and justify myself for screaming at Stephanie again if she wakes Doug and me up tonight like she did last night five times. Wish she'd call Keith, if he's gonna marry her she needs to confide in the guy more than she does. And vice versa. And he needs to learn how to stand her. <sigh> I'm her sister and I have trouble enough. I'm sure it will all work out somehow though. Thanks to all for the good luck wishes, once again. Hope I can get adequately rested tonight. Later!

**RESUME RP ACTION, WITH THE MOMENT SO MANY OF US HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR- KIT'S REVENGE OIN GUS**

As their enemies' vehicles continue to be driven into the Mall of America, the Ravens continue running around and throwing spells or explosives at them, hitting many vehicles and destroying them as well as their drivers and occupants. "Okay, I think we pretty much have that entrance to the Mall blocked," Doug declares, shaking his head at the wreckage they have created and the many corpses among it, which includes that of Brenda Falls. "I believe so," Lathrop agrees. "Aren't there several other entrances though?" The other Ravens nod as they hear lots of loud crashes and horns honking echoing from nearby. "And some bad guys just came through them," says Jammer. "Let's split up and take them out," Kit directs. "Everyone stay alert. Remember these people are out to kill us and nothing less." The Ravens all nod and begin to split up and dash off. "I think I'll stay with you two," Anthony says to Doug and Kit. "Alright," Doug says, looking at all the destroyed cars and trucks. "We'll search these wrecks for conscious survivors first. Then we'll head west." He looks at the others as they pair up and gestures at Mansfield, reminding Tom and Leah to watch him. They nod and move off east. "We'll head north," Shap says, Shauna, Jammer, and Tricia nodding as they follow. "And we'll search the upper floors for any stragglers," Boris says. "Try to find Orion, Keith, and Stephanie if you can," Kit tells him. The big man nods and then moves off towards the nearest escalator with Lathrop and Elena coming along. "Okay, Anthony, you check that side," Doug waves at the wreckage. "Kit, you take the other side. I'll search between you. You find anything, holler." There is a loud scream from nearby as he says this, and Doug frowns, not recognizing it, as he, Kit, and Anthony spin to face the noise. "There you are, bitch!" Gus yells joyously, leaping out from a shop doorway with a small hammer in hand. "Time for your lesson in leaving me alone!" "You ever think maybe if you'd ever left me alone in RL, you wouldn't be in this mess?" Kit asks, but Gus ignores her and roars like a caveman, running forward. Waving Doug and Anthony back, she steps into Gus's path and hits him with the full force of a punch that knocks him back several feet and to the floor. Gus grunts as he gets up, spitting out blood and teeth. "Sternie!" he yells. "Help!" His friend Sternie Miller charges out of another shop nearby at the cries, bellowing like a bull and limping as he approaches. "Gonna kill you bastards," he mutters. "Getting me put me in jail again, shooting my knee, beating up and hurting my buddy Gus, I'm gonna kill…" "You're not gonna do anything!" Kit retorts. "Either of you! You're just being morons to pursue this whole crusade! If you value your lives, go home!" "Shut up!" Gus retorts. "We know what's best for us, we're gonna make you stop trying to tell us! You're gonna leave us alone! You're gonna…" He is cut off as Kit sighs and fires her rocket launcher into the ceiling above his head, causing an explosion that rains rubble down on the shocked Gus and buries him. His last act is to throw up his hands to protect himself and roar defiance, but it proves useless as he is crushed. Sternie bellows in rage at the sight and limps forward, but Doug and Anthony quickly react and cut him down with several shots from their guns. "I don't know why exactly," Kit mutters, staring at the pile of rubble and Gus's dead hand protruding from underneath it as Sternie crumples, "but killing that guy gave me a weird sense of closure." Doug nods in agreement. "Wonder if there are any more bad guys around." "Gus!" a skanky-looking girl screams at that moment, running out of a nearby music store with her pockets stuffed full of CDs and tackling Kit, who barely has time to gasp in shock. "That would be a yes," Anthony mumbles, and is about to rush to Kit's aid with Doug when a tire flies out of the wreckage and hits him in the chest, knocking him down on the ground and leaving him pinned. "Elder!" Holder screams in challenge, stepping out from his destroyed car with an insanely angry look on his face. "Whoever you are!" Doug responds, bringing up his gun and grimacing as he pulls the trigger and nothing happens, the plasma batteries dead. "No friends, no ammo, no hope," Holder laughs. "Now you die, weakling." "Or you, asshole," Doug mutters, tossing away the gun and getting into a fighting stance as Holder charges with ready knife and stick. Nearby, Anthony groans as he tries to push the tire off himself and Kit and Lorna (Gus's girlfriend) continue scratching and kicking at each other as they tussle on the floor. A group of Githyanki warriors standing not too far away chuckle at one another as they pass around popcorn from the Mall movie theater and watch.

Outside the Mall, police vehicles have pulled up and formed a solid wall around the parking lot. Officers are now walking around it, frowning and calling all-clears to each other as they move to secure a perimeter. The Chief of Minneapolis PD stands off to one side watching them with the young officer named Kenny at his right. "What's going on?" the Chief asks a lieutenant who comes running up and salutes. "Nothing, sir," the lieutenant reports. "We have the perimeter secure, but it's empty. All the fighting is going on inside the Mall, as you can probably hear." "Then get in there and do something about it!" the Chief commands. "We can't, sir," says the lieutenant. "There's some kind of invisible shield around the place. No officer has been able to walk through the doors of the Mall without bumping into solid air or I don't know what. It's weird." As the Chief stares at him incredulously, Kenny grimaces. "Uh, sir, there could be magic involved in this," he says. "Or maybe some new technology. I know that something weird has to be going on. That truck over there," he points at the Onslaught, "you wouldn't believe who it belongs to." "Who, Kenny?" the lieutenant asks, while the Chief just glares at the young cop. "Some people I knew in my last job," Kenny answers. "A government-backed elite anti-terrorist vigilante group called the Black Ravens. I was lawyer in the CR that they hung out in, people killed me all the time. Then they started ignoring me, so I gave that job up for this. These Black Ravens, they're really tough, handle all kinds of things no one else can. Demons, evil wizards, insane clones…" "Those things don't exist, Kenny!" the Chief interrupts. "You may be wrong about that, sir," Kenny replies with a smirk. "Never mind," the Chief snaps. "Is there anyone around here who can tell us what's going on inside?" "The parking lot's pretty empty, sir," the lieutenant sighs. "Except for us officers and some weird guy kneeling in the middle of a black pentagram Jenkins spotted…" "What?" the Chief interrupts. Get Jenkins on the radio now! Let's interrogate that weirdo!" "Just a sec, Chief," the lieutenant says, taking out his radio and speaking into it. "Jenkins, that guy you found?" "The one dressed like a Catholic bishop?" an officer standing on the other side of the parking lot asks into his radio. "He's still in some kind of trance, I've been trying to get his attention without resorting to physical contact…Oh wait, he's looking up." There is a pause on the radio as the lieutenant shrugs at the Chief, who stares at him in expectation and Kenny gulps. Then there is a strangled scream over the radio. "Jenkins!" the lieutenant shouts into it. "Jenkins! What's going on? Jenkins! Everyone, we have a possible officer in distress!" As most of the cops nearby hear him, panic, and start to run towards Jenkins, their ankles are grabbed by white skeletal hands bursting out of the ground. Many gasp in surprise as they collapse, then turn and scream as they see dead corpses coming out of the earth with flies buzzing around them and decomposed areas standing out on their skin. "Oh my God," the Chief breathes, falling forward in a faint as he sees it. "What the hell…" the lieutenant gasps as the zombies start moaning and coming out of the ground in droves to grab and overwhelm the screaming cops. Kenny shakes his head as he watches it all happening. On the other side of the parking lot, Bishop Galante smiles with full demon-face extended as he watches the zombies spring to life and do his bidding. Officer Jenkins lies next to him, his face frozen in a silent scream thanks to his soul being drained out by Galante to power the zombie-creation spell. This horrible sight is the last image on the screen before it goes blank.

**COMING SOON- MAUL OF AMERICA PLAYED FOR REAL. END THIS LONG AND GRATUITOUSLY VIOLENT RP**
Kitainia - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:09:31 PM
IP: pool-63.52.167.81.dlls.grid.net

Dang, I really wanted to post at 11:04:49 tonight, but I missed it while giving someone DLD help. Oh well. Still, this is my first post of my second year here. Or maybe I should wait for the 17th, when I made my first non top ten post. Oh, well, still don't have a lot of time, much work to be done.

Dang, I can't tab space to post with Netscape 6.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:08:56 PM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

**RP HERE, TYING IN WITH ROBBY'S BITS AND LOOSE ENDS**

In a small prison cell somewhere in California, Nylon Man and Bleach Man, the last two surviving members of the Dirty Laundry Gang, are watching TV and eating gruel. "Divers on the Kursk today," a female newscaster is saying on the TV, "found another emotional note detailing the final moments of several more sailors who did not die immediately and were rescued too late. The letter reads…" "Oh geez!" Nylon Man grimaces as she begins reading the letter, "tell us good news, lady! We need cheering up! This is terrible!" "Ain't much cheering up in jail, Nylon," Bleach Man sighs, practicing his karate moves as he talks. "You know, I bet those Ravens, the people who got us put here, could've done something to help those sailors. But they didn't know about it, I guess." "Yeah, I guess not," Nylon Man groans. "They would have done more than the Russian government did, that's for sure. They were capable and had good hearts." "They had hot women in their gang, too," Bleach Man chuckles, turning to a mirror and combing his hair with a smile. "Pity we didn't get the chance to join their gang. The hot women in there will probably be the last hot women I ever see." "What about the prosecutor who convicted us?" Nylon Man asks. "She was pretty hot." "Oh yeah," Bleach Man nods, smiling as he recalls their court case. Nylon Man meanwhile turns back to the TV and shakes his head as the news moves on to recent election developments. "I better change the channel," he says, and is just reaching to do so when Bleach Man screams in shock. Nylon Man turns toward him, and thus misses the sight of a large automobile falling towards their window. It caves in the prison wall and creates a huge explosion, which is compounded as two more cars fall on top of it, destroying walls nearby. When the smoke clears, Bleach Man and Nylon Man both lie pinned under the debris resulting from the explosions, bleeding heavily and dying as a result. "I never got to make it…" Bleach Man whines just before he passes out. "And I never got to see my release day!" Nylon Man whines before dying himself. Above them, Black Tiger stares down at the wreckage with a shocked expression. "Dad!" he yells, hoping Jim Noying will answer. "You're okay, right?!" Standing beside him, Lonny shakes his head at the cliff's height above them as Steve Irwin growls an oath and looks around for a rope or something he can use to climb up. The Brain stands near them, looking over a drawn-up plan and grimacing as he crumbles and tears up the papers. "Now I have to go back to Atlanta," he sighs, staring over the edge.

The display changes to somewhere in the vast expanse that is Earth, specifically wherever Mephisto's ship crash-landed. The arch-demon sits on a large rock looking glum, two imps running around after each other nearby as a third flaps around his head. "Don't take it so hard, boss," the imp says. "At least you're still alive. And we're with you." "Oh yes, that is most joyous," Mephisto growls, waving his hand as if to swat the imp away. "Don't you realize I'm back on Earth now? The remainder of the Ten will soon be here, and even if they do not all feel about me as Nine did, they can still destroy this planet with the greatest of ease. And me with it!" "You didn't know the ship was on a course right back to Earth, boss," the imp shrugs. "Nor did you know that none of us knew how to pilot it, resulting in crash landing." "I know it the hard way now!" Mephisto snaps. The imp shrugs. "We can always escape back to Hell." "No we can't," Mephisto counters with a snarl. "My domain there has been taken over by Beelzebub, it's not mine anymore. All the souls I had are his now too, all of them! All my good minions are dead or have deserted me! I have no souls, no minions, no power. I've lost all my souls to that fat lazy slug-bodied maggot-ridden…" He stops suddenly, his eyes lighting up. "Boss?" the imp questions. Mephisto responds only with a chuckle. "I still have him!" he then declares with an evil grin. "Yes! I still have one! I can feel it now that I'm not preoccupied with my own situation anymore. I still have him, I still have his soul!" "Boss?" the imp asks, frowning as Mephisto turns and starts walking off across the landscape with a cold smile on his face. The other two imps stop chasing each other and look over with frowns. "Boss, what are you talking about?" the flying imp asks, but Mephisto ignores him and keeps walking. "Boss, wait!" the imp screams. "You can't just go off and leave us here! Boss? Boss!!!!!!!" The screen goes blank as he continues to call out and Mephisto walks on, muttering and smiling about the one soul he still has in his possession.

**WE ALL KNOW WHOSE SOUL THAT IS, RIGHT? :) END THIS BIT OF RP**

Hey folks. Kit here, trying to crank out a post and get caught up before bedtime once again. :) Life is going easy, for those of you who are wondering. Second round of midterms just ended today for me, and for Doug last week since he got his paper done. :) Everything's going fine. No news from Gus's girlfriend, for those of you who asked about her, she was still in jail last I heard. Serving her time. I'm not too worried about her, not in real life anyway. On the wedding front, Stephanie tossed a dress catalog in front of me this morning and said she expects me to pick a suitable maid-of-honor dress out of it by the end of the week. I tried to tell her it was too soon, she wouldn't listen. <sighs> And looking through the catalog, there are only two dresses I like. One of them Doug hates- can't wear it- and the second is too expensive. I'm wondering how I'm gonna tell Stephanie this. <grimace> I'll figure out something, I'm sure. For now, let me get on with comments and replies.

Robby: Well, good luck with those projects. I can certainly understand being caught in the middle of a dozen hassles. Sometimes you have to make time though. I try. :) Hopefully you too will be able to someday soon. Thanks again for your approval of tonight's above RP scenes, made a minor change to the first bit based on your suggestion.

Christine: It's okay, we understand about the wedding. Will miss you, especially getting to see Stephanie's face when she meets you, but it's okay. :) Maybe you can still come to Doug's and mine. **SPOILERS** Liked the new Dissidents story a lot, especially the Corwin development and the scenes with Tormauline. Still want Hippolyta back, but I guess I have to say oh well…<sigh>. Good bits with the Illuminati also, and Aiden and Lex. Looking forward to the next story, please keep up the good work! **SPOILING DONE** Will check out November Sabledrake when I have the time.

Election: I don't even want to talk about this, like many I just wish it would end! Know what I read in the paper today? Bush and Cheney shouldn't even be on the ballot because the Constitution says the Prez and VP of our country can't reside in the same state! Geez, why didn't they pick up on this earlier? God! <sighs> Right now, I do not know who I want as President, and I'm sure it's the same for millions of other Americans. I just want this to be over. Hopefully it will have some good results, though right now I cannot see how that could be. :(

Winterwitch: < Isn't it a shame that the guys who you want to marry and are just WOW, are
cartoons or fictional characters?> Yes, it is a shame. But there are a few great guys out there who are real. You just have to look hard enough. <grins, hugs Doug>

Jackal: Thanks for the pregnancy info, now I know what to expect from my sister in the near future. Looking forward to it. <groan> As if weird cravings, morning sickness, heavy wedding-obsessions, and rampant immaturity weren't enough. She's already having difficulty sleeping and has a tendency to call me in the middle of the night whenever she wakes up…:(

Lynati: Yeah, I also miss Oz. <sigh> Damn Seth Green wanting a movie career. The only movies I've seen him in so far have been Idle Hands and the Austin Powers Duo and they stank! Well, he didn't stink in the last two, but otherwise…you know what I mean. If he gets better roles soon, I'll think okay, it's fine for him to be in movies. Otherwise he better go back to Buffy. I liked him and Willow a whole lot. I like her and Tara too but not quite as much. <Threesome> That might work. Maybe. :)

Winterwolf: Power naps. I can sleep thirty minutes and awaken fully refreshed just as long as I get to sleep eight or ten full hours eventually. Inherited the quality from my dad, an ER lead surgeon. That and my tendency to obsess over things and not worry about anything else until my current project is over and done with is what keeps me going. And Doug. :)

Shadowrider: Again, glad you were able to come by, even if it was brief. Hope the next time is soon. Good that you enjoyed X-Men, I agree with you about its ups and downs. I feel bad that your e-mail never came into our box- maybe Emmabu can try forwarding it to us? If not, maybe try again next time you are able. Good luck till then and stay cool, friend. :)

Warpmind: Glad your new place is working out great so far. Congrats on it once again. Sorry to hear about the fight with your co-worker, but hey, at least you gave as good as or better than you got. Hope your job's still intact, and the wounds heal soon. Good luck.

Gunjack: I too like Sum of All Fears a lot, though Without Remorse is my favorite Clancy book. Just can't get over a strong gallant hero like Mr. Clark. :) <Doug's bachelor-hood> Don't worry, I'm gonna let him keep it a while longer. I like being single too after all. <grin> On Jammer, well, he's the kind of guy who sometimes likes to go walking through the bad part of town hoping he gets jumped, just so he can let off a little steam by beating up somebody. It's why he's been a bouncer the last eight years. Worries his friends a lot, let me tell you. Especially Tricia. I do not know how she continues to put up with that man. <shakes head and laughs> And Billy Joel is not a loser. At least I have never thought so. Maybe it's just cause "Pressure" so accurately describes my life and Doug often has "We Didn't Start the Fire" whenever he's studying for a history exam. <shrugs> I don't know.

Saturday Morning Cartoon SPOILERS: Liked the second episode of X-Men: Evolution, it had a great intro for Kitty Pryde and Avalanche. Nice development on them too. I like how they're taking things slow in the series a lot. The ep had especially good scripting, dialogue, and animation. I also enjoyed Cyclops' Cobra and the Wolverine-Sabretooth bits. Hope they introduce a young female villain soon, not all Mystique's recruits should be male IMO. Batman Beyond I also liked, they had a great new Justice League and Terry had very nice interaction with them. There's currently too much mystery and confusion surrounding Superman's apparent treason, but I hope it will be explained this Saturday somehow. I hope it's not just a test for Terry like Birdsong speculated, the explosions in Metropolis are why. Bruce would not tolerate that being part of the test when it could kill people. Seems way out of character for Supes too. And Aqua-Girl would also have to be in on things, and she obviously isn't. Hmm. It's all just too complicated for it to be that. Can't help but wonder if Luthor is still around and involved in this, or maybe Braniac. I'm wondering where Lois, Jimmy, and Supergirl are too. Hope we eventually find out. **END SPOILERS**

Mecord: Welcome back! Congrats on getting your love life straightened out, Doug and I have been praying about it. :) Thanks for sending the stories you did, we enjoyed them muchly. Looking forward to more if you can get them to us. In any case, for now I'm just glad to see you back in the room and the RP. :) Hope you get to come by again soon, good luck with any problems still remaining in your life.

Fire Storm: <shares moment of silence> There's a great song about the Edmund Fitzgerald sinking, wish I could remember who sings it. Some of the lyrics I know if you want them. That was indeed a tragic incident, and a strange one too. You know, they never found any of the bodies of those sailors. Just an empty ship. Hmm. <shrugs>

Cat, lain, Angeal, other newcomers: Welcome!!! Hope you enjoy this place. Looks like you fit in nicely so far. Hope that you continue to do so. No sanity deposit is needed, you both seem like you've already given. Feels good, doesn't it? <grins>

Archwolf: Glad to see you back in the RP too. Sorry to hear about your fencing team falling apart, hope you can salvage something from it. The memories at least should be great, right? :) And you can still practice your hobby, team or no team. At least I hope you can. Whatever happens, good luck.

Niamhgold: You're welcome on the advice. Hmm, it sounds like this Aubrey and Stephanie have a lot in common. I'm glad you're still able to be friends with her, despite all the ditziness. I hope Sergio someday sees that there's got to be more to a relationship than good looks in order for it to work. He's not the only guy with that problem of course. <sigh> Giving yourself some space from him for now is probably a good idea. One must sort out their own feelings before doing anything else when involved in quandaries like yours. Good luck to you, hope you are soon able to reach a decision. Let me know what I can do to help. And congrats on the great grades!

Azarah: I'm sure DC appreciates you standing up for him, but I don't think he does what he does for attention. Nobody knows why he does what he does. And in any case, you standing in the way is not going to stop me from exacting my revenge on DC for all the things he does to me. <triggers the microscopic explosives she mixed in with DC's food earlier today because of him making Netscape freeze up and grins as he is blown to bits> See, you couldn't even do anything about that! :) And positive reinforcement doesn't always work either, believe me I know. Wish it did more often, but…<sighs>

**X-FILES SPOILERS**
Good episode on Sunday, nice follow-up to last week. I was not surprised "Mulder" was just a Bounty Hunter but it did make for some great plot developments and fights. Great developments on Scully and Skinner, though I liked what was done with Dogget more. Hope to continue seeing him grow and change in such interesting ways. I feel bad for Mulder being stuck with the aliens, but maybe he'll be rescued eventually. <shrugs> The script in the episode this week was also really good, and I liked the developments on Gibson Praise. Can't help but wonder how that kid's gonna grow up sane. Looking forward to Dogget in a Monster-of-the-Week episode next Sunday. <grins>
**END SPOILERS**

SOROW: Good luck with those college essays, hope you soon get them finished. We miss you a lot too girlfriend. :)

Traveler: Yep, you're approaching your old post lengths, though you're not quite there yet. <grin> Keep it up. Good to see you once again in the RP. As for Keith's stag party, well, Jammer's planning that. He's the best man, so it's his responsibility. Though Doug, Tricia, Gubio, Shap, Shauna, and me are helping out where we can. Shauna in particular since she's in charge of wedding finance.

Azrael: I agree with you about God, thanks for posting the good conclusions you've come to about the guy. He's a lot like a parent, with us as the eternal children. <scratches head> Wish God made more sense a lot of the time, but I can stand him. I guess. :) I agree with you on the components of personality too. Wish some people would let their Feelings dominate them less often. My sister in particular. <grin>

SJ: Your own TV show? Alright! Can Doug and I guest-star in some episodes? When's it premiering? Good luck getting it past the censors of the world. <grins> Looking forward to watching the show, needless to say. $ Hope the Mephisto scene in the RP above is okay with you, sorry I didn't have time to wait longer for your reply. When your life is going nuts you get posts out as soon as you can- if you don't understand I apologize. And I will promise not to jump the gun next time. Hope you approve, though. :) $

**PENDRAGON SPOILERS**
I too enjoyed Part 2 very much, more than I did Part 1. Arthur and Merlin had some more great development, as did Mary, Braddock, and Morgana. Liked the scripting of the episode, and all the revelations. Especially enjoyed the development on Nigel, I have a little sympathy for him now. Surprisingly. :) Still don't like his attitude towards Mary though, a good father should love his daughter more. <sigh> The scenes with Seabairn were great too, it was shocking to find out what he really was. I wish he'd hung around longer, I'll miss him. Oh well. The flashback at the beginning seemed a little too scripted, and there weren't any illustrations (hope pics get done and added in someday!), but otherwise great episode and stupendous season finale! Good revelation of Arthur's existence to Britain especially, wonder how he's gonna deal with it next Pendragon season. He now knows he can't stay hidden forever. Though the Mantle of Manannan should make it easier for a while. :) Enjoyed the Merlin-Mary romance and kiss too (especially when coupled with that spooky job Morgana did impersonating her!), can hardly wait to see the progression of that thread. Looking forward to the next group of stories TGS does, whenever they come.
**SPOILERS OVER, END PART 1**
Kitainia - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:08:42 PM
IP: pool-63.52.167.81.dlls.grid.net

* Lynati growling*

Curses! I just spent a fair piece of time writing about how much I loved tonight's Buffy episode, and something goes "a little ca-ca" and the entire bit vanishes. Instead of writing it all out again, I'll just some it up by saying I REALLY liked the show. ALL of it. Good Storytelling; Superior acting (especially with the body language.). And I'll leave it at that, because I don't feel like re- citing all the individual reasons why. At least, not now. ...Gods, I loved the ending!
...Angel was good, too.

*Lynati Exits*
Lynati
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 10:58:30 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Religion Debate Note> I do feel compelled to point out a bit of innacuracy I've seen cropping up. (You good christian boys should know better)

Adam and Eve weren't created Immortal. They were able to remain immortal by eating from the Tree of Life, which was in the Garden of Eden. When they were barred from the Garden, they could no longer eat from the Tree of Life.

I'm still considering whether or not to really get into this discussion. So far my self preservation instincts have won out and I'm staying pretty much out of it.

Pendragon Comments> pretty good. Nice pay off, with a plesantly ambiguous ending. I'm eagerly awaiting the next season to see how things shape up.
David G - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 10:41:04 PM
IP: 198.215.20.201

Gunjack Valentine - Hmm. In this case, what
did the "You shall surely die" threat mean, if not instant death or instant mortality? - One answer: spirtual death

Once again, my attempts at concealing my religious background have failed due to lack of personal restraint.

mail.com has decided to flood its users with full page ads that open a new browser window. So much for going there. Anybody know a place another than yahoo, excite, hotmail, netaddress that I can get another free email address due to mail.com's annoying ads?

**BABYLON 5 COMMENTS**
Hmm, I really like the part, that for once, multiple species have more advanced technology than humans. I mean ST:DS9 and have many similarities, but I can not help but think Bablyon 5 was better because it had so much freedom to go places. I mean DS9 was severely limited because it was inside of Star Trek universe, but excellent writing could overcome any obstacle.
**END BABYLON 5 spoilers

**TGS SPOILERS**
Great ending, however it seemed too easy for Arthur to make his case. I mean, even a villain might rescue someone if he/she thought the rescue would be beneficial.
**END TGS SPOILERS**

Sevarious Junior - Actually, I would not mind a chance at creating a serius to rival DBZ. It would be pretty much based off the BFTS RP universe. Heck, the current scenario would be considered the 'half-way point' in the season as far as I am concerned with upcoming events.

**RP RELATED**
Ok, audience, which pizza place is DPH & company currently at?

I will not continue this plotline until someone not involved in the BFTS RP offers up a suggestion.
**END RP RELATED**

Green Baron - Do people make a big deal out of writing 'LA' instead of 'La' for the abbreviation for your state?

!won rof lla s'taht
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 09:34:10 PM
IP: max1-52.cwy.cei.net

**Winterwolf tacks on a forgotten piece to his last post**

Hey I forgot to add in the riddle! ^_^

RIDDLE:

You are given 81 marbles and a balance.

The balance has two sides. You can put marbles on each sides and
determine which side is heavier. 80 of the marbles are identical. 1
marble is heavier than the others. Your goal is to discover the heavy
marble. You are allowed only 4 uses of the balance.

Enjoy!

**Winterwolf goes to bed now**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 09:23:57 PM
IP: 206.15.120.121

**Winterwolf coughs**

Hi! I've got a cold. Yuk!

Lynati> <coat> Well, I suppose that isn't as bad. ;)

Cat> <hide bodies> I suggest stuffing them in the casket of closed casket funerals or even better just cremate them and shatter their remains to the wind. Have I said too much? ;D

Warpmind> Oh well. Guess I'll just use a hanky for now. :)

Niamhgold> Niamhgold sighting! :) <party> Hope everyone has fun at the party! That goes triple for you! ^_^ <fill the pinata with> Okay now I'm too curious! I wonder exactly what toys and candy ar going in there! LOL ;)

Well I need my sleep and hopefully this cold will go away when I wake up!

**Winterwolf curls up in a thick blanket and goes to bed**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 09:20:51 PM
IP: 206.15.120.121

** Niamhgold enters briefly **

Just saying hi to you all, and I'll probably have a better post by tomorrow night! Right now it's time to set up for Reuben's surprise B-day party, and I've got to fill the pinata with...well, never mind! ;}

Adios!
Niamhgold
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 08:57:43 PM
IP: 206.41.204.68

***BUFFY AND ANGEL TEASER****

Nothing terribly important to impart now, but everyone should tune in to the shows tonight if they can.

On Buffy, we learn a LOT more about Spike. The show is very Spike-centric, and for us fans of ol' William the Bloody, that's a very good thing.

On Angel, we get to see more of Angel and Darla. Their past life together, and how they might resolve their current situation.

And there's going to be lots of flashbacks.

AND DRUSILLA'S BACK!!!! Well, okay, it's only in the flashbacks, but still....
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 07:49:31 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

*Lynati enters*

Gunjack (resonses, pretty much in order): Yes. They did.
.... *blinks* I must have missed that episode. Let me guess-an early Brooklyn-esque revenge on Demona, before he forgave her? (that cowpie line has officially been added to the "random lines I must include in my stories" list. I'll put you in the credits, don't worry. ;) )
.....wouldn't _you_ like to know? oh. I guess you do. Well, there's Lynati (me), Lynati's day form (also me), She-with-the Golden-eyes-who-watches-from-the highest-tree, (again, me); and then there's all the Lynati variations: Lynati-the-Uninformed; Lynati-the-Easily-Confused; Lynati-the-one-who-has-read-far-too-much-of Christine-Morgan's-gargfiction-and-thus-can-no-longer-keep-a-strait-face-during-the-most-innocently-meant-converstations...
I can't talk about the rest; they don't want me to...
...I really like the Kansas version; but then I also liked the movie Demon Knight(thought it was Hysterical.) Plus I never heard the other version. I think the Kansas one came out in '69 or thereabouts, and as it was their only hit I believe that it is the original version.
....I don't watch news Radio; and our dorm reception barely gets anything.
...the quote-I couldn't get it at first, so I wrote it down to try and figure out later. 2 hours later, right after I had just exited the internet to go work on typing up my stories, I ran across the page the quote was on, and froze. "Lovedaw...won..." ?...??...! 8-O !.....!!!!!!!
you know the rest.
*weeeee*
"...except a nice MLT- you know, a mutton, lettuce, and tomatoe? When the mutton's nice and lean...mmm, they're so perky; I just love that..."

Taleweaver: Good advice :) errmmm, actually, I know how all the Background stuff fits in; my present stuff is the continuation of it, after all. I just never wrote out most of the old stories past synopsiss'(?s'?). The maon problem is that i am working on several parts of the storyline that are months apart simultainiously, and then I start to wonder what's going to happen next before I've_written_out the present. I work on my stories everyday; it's the actual writing part that I need to keep up with. I've started trying to getit all down as soon as it comes out, so I am writing everyday, more or less. I guess I should take your advice and make it "more", eh?

Revel: I just have to say it.
"I once felt sorry for myself, because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet...and THEN I laughed my @$$ off!"
..sometimes, things _are_ just funny...
("Karate chop"? *sniggers* Even _I_ know better than that...)

*Lynati exits, humming a certain classic rock song that has, for completely unknown reasons, become stuck in her head... ;) *
Lynati
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 07:18:14 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

*PENDRAGON COMMENT - DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE SEASON FINALE YET *

ED - Actually, I don't think that Nigel Sefton even knows about Merlin (or any other magic-user) being associated with Arthur at present. He certainly doesn't know that Emrys Hawkins and Merlin are the same person (let alone Emrys and Mary's relationship). But he does correctly suspect that Arthur would be more likely to find somebody with a cure for lycanthropy than he (Nigel) would.

Mind you, I think that much of Nigel's real reason for letting Mary stay with Arthur is a means of shoving the problem off on somebody else; if she stays in Arthur's company for the moment, that means that it will be Arthur who has the job of working hard to conceal her condition from the outside world, not Nigel.

*
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 07:04:17 PM
IP: 216.87.46.79.dialup-stl.primary.net

Gunjack. <Except those commandments aren't what get you to heaven> Maybe not by themselves, but try getting there without them. ;)

As far as seperation goes, we are seperated physically from God, but only 'cause we can't see him directly, he's still here. We are not seperated spiritually. He still listens to us and we can still listen to him. Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus points out the difference real well. I think its in Luke somewhere, I'll look it up later. Well, thats all for now, I'll have to check back later.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 06:31:48 PM
IP: 198.215.20.217

Reboot/Initiate Logic Hit...
Toast
Toast
Toast
///quote: error///
overload... Tilt-tilt-tilt-tilttilt-tilt-til...

I don't like it.
I don't like it, and I don't wanna do it.
It's tacky. And don't look at me that way.
-Ray Stevens, "The Pirate Song"

Azrael><<10 really basic instructions not to go to hell.>> Except those commandments aren't what get you to heaven... ;)

Todd><<I'm honestly doubtful that Adam and Eve were created immortal, given that Adam was formed from the "dust of the earth", which sounds pretty mortal to me.>> Hmm. In this case, what did the "You shall surely die" threat mean, if not instant death or instant mortality?

Entity/Physics><<Have I skipped stuff?>> I was wondering if you agree that God can't change his nature. I'm trying to keep track of which questions are resolved. :P <<In any case, I couldn't explain to you he math that supports my theory of order from chaos.>> Darn. Gside, can you lend a hand? <<I'm not a mathematician, nor would I ever venture to be one.>> Me neither. "This is a calculator. it's a NICE calculator. It won't hurt you." <- My math major friend... :P
<<As for the laws of physics, I'd say those laws are based on the order that results from the chaos.>> But at least we agree that the laws themselves are orderly. The problem is, what Chaos could have created them? The problem is that the physical laws are as deep as you can dig in the physical world. The Universe is built on top of them (and so cannot have created them), and if you try to go beneath them you leave science and enter philosophy and theology.
Also, an attendent problem is the idea that perfect order (which is what the physical Laws represent, yes?) can arrise from chaos. I know that neither of us can grasp the mathamatics, but if this were true, would we not see more perfect order within the randomness of natural world? Or do you not believe the statement "There are no straight lines in nature"?

<<...then when the universe contracts, it drags back with it ALL matter and ALL energy that was expanded, since the energy and matter cannot go beyond the universe without stretching its boundaries.>> I'm DEAD certian I'm missing something, so hopefully this question will point out my error. How can gravity collapse the Universe? I can understand collapsing matter and possibly energy, but when the matter starts collapsing, how can it drag in the UNIVERSE after it?

<<If the Universe didn't always exist, what came before?>> God. ;) ...Either way you cut it, you always end up with a layer below the "Bedrock" level of the physical Laws. The difference is, I claim that that layer is actually the plate the cake rests on (God), and you claim that it's another layer of cake.
The problem is, this new layer breaks the chain of Cause and Effect, thus violating ALL laws of science and logic, and leaves nothing in their place. My position escapes this problem by saying that God exists OUTSIDE the Universe, but you say (I think...) that "the Universe is all there is, or ever was, or ever will be". If you can't look outside the Universe, you're left with an unanswerable question.

Entity><<But again, those are emotions put to ill use.>> True. But looking back on the history of logic, they almost always are...
<<Do I need to? What do -you- think about that?>> It seems both logical and perfectly fair. If you ask, he promises to listen (though you may not like the answer). If you don't speak, there's nothing to listen to. That's why I wanted you to continue the thought; to highlight the problem.

<<[order is] Unprovable. Chaos from order or order from chaos are only provable over the other on chalkboards.>> Think of the Universe as a layer cake, with the more detailed layers built on top of the more general ones. If I can show that the bottom layer is orderly, and neither of us can find a layer below it, then the Universe is orderly at it's base, yes?
<<You already assume the existence of the Devine.>> Yes I do, since I can't see a way for Truth to exist without a God. I'll get to this in a second.
<<Subjective, so I won't argue it.>> Look at it this way: Reality is a dark, unfamiliar room, filled with furniture. The various religions are sets of intsructions that tell you how to get from one end of the room to the other without whacking your knees painfully on chairs and tables in the dark. So, if one religion describes the room better than another, the difference can be measured by the number of whacks and bruises caused by following the less-accurate religion, yes? This is what I meant by "reflecting truth".

"Hey Charlie, duck your head!
*sssffft*
well, you're a little bit late on that one, Charlie.
Whoo, I'll bet that smarts..."
-Ray Stephens, "Mr Custer"

<<Are you saying logic bails you out of suicide? That you wouldn't wish to live in a world where there is no God?>> If there were no God, I'd probably only go a little crazy. If there was no TRUTH, I'd be dead inside six weeks; either from suicide or homicide. Why? :)

<<I'd say the self-creation explanation works better. Rather than contradict laws of time you can embrace their retro off-shoots.>> The assumption is that he created *OUR* time, and stands outside it. <<The sort that propose circular or sphereical time.>> The problem is, this theory confines Him inside his "Creation".

<<So, what constitutes separation from God? We're not separated right now?>> Seperated physically, but not spiritually (I think). Think of the difference between being seperated from your bonnie lassie (girl, not dog) by an ocean, and living in her hometown after you've totally destroyed her love.
Where the heck did *that* come from? o_O ...Anyway, you get the point.

<<Excluding some liberties for dramatic licence, particularly for the Old Testament.>> Such as? We have no records of the plaugues in Egypt, but the Egyptions NEVER recorded *any* of their defeats... As far as I know, the Bible has yet to be proven wrong on history. <<Some would accuse it of not being internally consistent enough. If God was the Bible's author, why wouldn't it be 100% consistent?>> God was the author, but the bible was "ghost-written". Still, what are the inconscistencies?

<<That was an idle side thought. I meant that not all those whose works appear in the Bible wrote -for- the Bible, but rather their works were compiled into the Bible later on.>> True, especially in the NT. However, several of the books (in particular Luke and Acts) were written specifically to document the facts surrounding Jesus' life and death. Also, note the multiple references in all the gospels to easily-reaserched (at least for the origional readers) facts. <<I wanna tackle this, along with a couple other points I glossed over... but I'm with you. I'm tired. I can't believe I got this far.>> I'm looking forward to it, but take it easy... and the quote at the bottom goes to both of us. ;)

She didn't recognize the face at first
But then her eyes flew open wide
She went to hug me and she spilled her purse
And we laughed until we cried...
-Dan Fogelberg, "Same Auld Land Syne"

"Get some rest. If you haven't got your health... You haven't got anything!"
-Count Rugan, "The Princess Bride"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 04:27:21 PM
IP: 209-223-253-152.ausa.net

Ah something I have experience with, plot development. Well I actually have a very interesting way of ironing out those nasty plot holes and making two parts come together. I act it out in my mind and out loud so I can hear how it sounds as well. My roommate has walked in on me a few times while I'm doing this and the first two times he just walked right back out. I guess he thinks I a wee bit over the edge. Hehe.
Warpmind- The last real down and dirty brawl I got into was in the sixth grade. We bruised eachother up and he broke his wrist trying to karate chop the back of my head. IT was funny then and it's funny now. Heal well buddy.

Later.

Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, tx
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 04:05:24 PM
IP: spider-wg024.proxy.aol.com

PENDRAGON: ‘THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING’ PART TWO

***Comments and Spoilers***

What an episode! TGS climaxes, to my mind at least, have had something of a stigma of not quite matching the first parts – but this really exceeded it. The conclusion was fantastic, and had me on the edge of my seat. It’s truly moved the series forward in a whole number of ways and I can’t wait to see what happens next. The only criticism I have with it is that the presentation wasn’t as sharp as might have been nice. I’ll illustrate this as I go through the review, but it’s really a catalogue of very minor quibbles. I think this might have made three parts though. I’m not looking forward to months on end without ‘Pendragon’, even assuming that the adventures continue.

The flashback seemed kind of arbitrary. I mean, there was a load of stuff to refer to throughout the 2-parter: Uther’s original deception, Gorlois’ murder of the gargoyle rookery etc. I would really have liked to have seen this rendered (or rather re-rendered, since I recall a good deal of this appearing in ‘THE GODDESS OF WINTER’). Without it, the flashback didn’t quite seem to fit. A nice prompter and cue for later events; but it wasn’t even like it tied in well to the central theme, which seemed to be nicely focused on unmasking: Arthur, Morgana, Mary, Seabairn and the gargoyles! Wow.

Arthur’s first lucky escape of the episode – frankly, it was a bit of a disappointment. I mean, even with gargoyle help – but there again the methods were quite brilliant. It would have been nice if some of the force had cottoned on beforehand though: maybe noticed a gargoyle carrying a guy with a sword for example.

Mary’s change was done in a nice – if unspectacular – way. I very much liked Nigel’s assumption that she was a Sevarius creation. The glimpse of him being lonely in the run-up to his knighthood was really sweet as well. The only bothering thing was his solution to curing Mary – it never seemed to be a big issue with him until he brought it up that Merlin could cure Mary, and so Mary should stay with him. So the addition came rather out of the blue. Still…

The Seabairn/Morgana scene was brilliant. I’m kind of sorry to see Seabairn push off: he’s got such a delightfully laid back malice.

I thought the way Morgana’s plan was talked around was a bit long-winded. Maybe if it was interspersed with some action, or talk it would be better. On a similar note, Merlin – considering he’s supposed to be at half-strength – won out a bit easily against Morgana. But then it was accompanied with one of the most heart-stopping scenes in TGS history: albeit one tragically undercut by some very dubious proof and an all-too-quick revelation. Morganna-Mary was very scary though.

As for Braddock – well, the way that he came to trust (or for that matter, deal with) Arthur was a bit old-hat, but it came out well in the end. Not as sharp as it might have been, but damn good nonetheless.

And then the showdown – which was thoroughly fantastic. What a stunning concept. And some great writing too, from Todd. It ushered in a lovely open ending as well. Neat.

The inclusion of the Gorlois background at the end was a bit of a shame… it might have been better incorporated into the main flow of the story, or in a future story. The last words, I might add, were a bit disappointing. ‘I don’t know’ just doesn’t have a great ring to it, especially since there was quite a similar sentiment at the end of season 1.

But quibbles aside, we got showcases for lots of the characters, brilliant climaxes and some great Weismanesque ‘open-ended closure’. I think it’s delightful.

Roll on season 4! ^_^
Ed - [ed.reynolds@virgin.net]
London, England
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 03:10:53 PM
IP: webcacheh18b.cache.pol.co.uk

Lynati, Cat, and other aspiring writers> As a loremaster continually tells me, the only real way to finish a story is to write. Write everyday, and twice on sundays. (That's my little addition)

Lynati) I understand the dilemma. You have all of this background stuff you want to use, but not sure how to fit it in. My advice is don't worry about it. Just write what you have. If it leads to some other thoughts, that's a scene to keep. If is sort of rambles, then you know what to drop. Also I've found it helps to have a clear mind when composing. If you have chores to do, or homework that needs finishing, do that first, that way it won't way on your mind later. But the best advice I've heard or can give is to write early and often.
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 02:54:03 PM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

*Valentine enters, looking haggard*

Sucky night, crappy morning. Y'all know the drill... I'm gonna try something new tonight: going to bed at a "decent" hour like 11 or midnight. Call me crazy, but rising at noon just ain't working for me.
Oh, and Lain... DC spent most of last night lagging me to death on CS. *Hands her a broken bottle, a gallon jug of ammonia, two rolls of duct tape, an assortment of wooden spoons, and a box of irate hamsters* ...Could you please use these to explain to him that it isn't nice to do that? Thanks. :)

Lynati><<Personally, I think any company that would change the closing line of an episode from "I'm never going to let you go tonight" to "let's go out for ice cream!" needs to be sued.>> *Valentine hurts himself laughing* They actually pulled THAT big a switch? Idiots... o_O <<Vengeance? You've been around here for how long, and you STILL haven't learned that lesson? ;)>> What lesson would that be? *thinks a bit* ...That vengeance is really, REALLY fun? Especially when it involves explosives and a trailer full of cowpies? 8D <<We thank you for the compliments... *blushes*>> *We*? How many you got in there? ;)
<<The song-you had it attributed to..I forget who, and I asked which was the band that originally performed it?>> It's listed as "Moody Blues"... But the guy I downloaded it from said it was really Kansas, so I've got no idea. I think it MIGHT be Moody Blues, but I really don't know. Is the Kansas version good? <<Hentai, I am given to believe, is japanese animated (Lynati turns red behind her light grey fur)...porn>> Like in News Radio... "Oh look, Japanese comic... nudie...books...o_O" ;)
<<"Yukoned Bea...."!!!! $%#@$^%^ !!!>> Y'know, no matter how many times I see that happen, it still warms the heart. It's like an endless practical joke on the world... :)

SJ><The *real* reason that Greg is back at Disney is because....well, he's developing a "Sevarius Jr." tv show.>> Right. And I heard a WB suit has approached Pistoff about a "Pistoff's Children's Hour". <<I originally pulled for "SJ and the Amazing Hentai Tentacles", but Standards and Practices shot that down for some reason....>> o_O ....Uh, you were gonna subject yourSELF to hentai tentacles? Time to lay off the controlled substances, mano....
;)

AingealKelly><<Falcon drops from window and perches on Archwolf's head>> *Valentine switches to El Wapo mode* What EEES thees? Are gringos falling from the SKY!? *switches back to his normal, reserved self* Welcome to the room! <<Wolfboy here talked me into coming out of corner.>> Way to go, Archie! *Barricades himself behind his desk to avoid repraisels* <<I'm also a shapeshifer... kinda...>> And I'm a grunt suit who blows things up and kills people... Kinda. Maybe we should form a superhero team. ;) <<::quiets and remains perched on Archwolf::>> Anybody else reminded of the old "Dog and Kitten" loony tunes episodes? ;D

Entity><<"Berman also revealed there's an interesting story arc for Data in the movie and the mood of the film is "more light-hearted and more action-oriented. In a nutshell, it's a rip-roaring adventure with a lot of humor".">> *Valentine stares at the last sentence for several seconds, and them loses his lunch in the trashcan* ...Ooouurgh. I'm not really a Trek fan, nd this STILL makes me want to heave. Sounds to me like they're making a buddy movie... Screw the Enterprise, just Data and Goerdi in a shuttle traveling cross-galaxy. Anyone wanna make bets on how long it'll be before we have a soundtrack of classic 70's "rock"?
Witness the death.

Winterwolf><<Welcome to Fantasy Island! Oh wait scratch that...>> *super-deforms* Da plane, Boss!!!

Cat><<Bloody knuckles. I forgot my glove at fencing.>> Another fencer, eh? A friend of mine is into that stuff... But I'll stick with Bokens and Softairs :) <<Whatever gave you the impression that I was sane?>> I was giving you the benefit of the doubt... :) <<Curiosity killed the cat.>> Attila, I think it's time to beat a strategic retreat...
<<Alright. Since I know better than to get involved in religious debates...>> Aw, shucks... :P <<First, I have this problem of starting stories and writing plot outlines that I never finish.>> My problem's the oppisite. I've got all the good characters, plot, and story I need, I just can't get the darn things moving. I've got thirty 'fics all planned out on my old HD, and I haven't even touched them in two years... <<they all turn into romances?>> Mine all turn into fatalistic orgies of death. :P ...Now what does that say about my psyche?
<<Second, anybody know good ways to hide bodies?>> Position self on roof of elevator, wait for target to enter, kill lights, kill target, stop elevator, pull body onto roof, duct tape body to shaft wall, enter elevator, leave normally. Gee, I *KNEW* all those GURPS sessions would pay off... 8D
<<If I am indeed sane, then what are the rest of you?>> That's classified, Ma'am... ;) <<If I am sane, God help the world.>> Oh, He DOES! ;D

Warpmind><<if I can do that much damage unconciously, imagine what I can do when I'm DELIBERATE!>> What's your training history again? <<In the Dreamlands, no item may exist unless it is properly "set" in the Waking World, meaning it has been somewhat unchanged for 500 years.>> That WOULD explain it... But why don't my friggin' KNIVES work? Whenever I go to take a chunk out of someone, I hit lag n' drag and can't keep a good grip... :P ...And the bad part is, there's some people in my dreams who REALLY need killing.

'kay, that's all the normal replies... Post and reboot for Logic Hit.

One, I love
Two, she loves
And three
She's true to me
-Karen Casey
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 02:30:33 PM
IP: 209-223-253-152.ausa.net

*Lynati Pokes her head in.*

Small tip- if your ever at home, eating cheap store-bought sushi with your fingers, and you notice a huge smear of wasabi on your finger and have the incredable urge to lick it off-don't.
Just. Don't.
(I needn't have bothered to buy that sudafed after all...)

Nerrrr? griping about stories...?
Goddess eyes, I'm into the fourth generation of my original characters, and still have next to nothing _written_ on the first 90+ years of material...(I hope when the time comes i can remember all the important details...)
and now, here I am in the "present", and Already I'm working on a plotline that takes place a year and a half from the time of the stories I should be concentrating on...as well as another dimension...
My problem, like Kyryn's, is I now how things turn out, and have a few scenes fully developed, but need to figure out all the little subtle bits to fully flesh the stories out with.
Plus, I have to remember to WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN THE MOMENT IT COMES TO MIND and edit the content to a perfect fit later. I don't know how many tasty bits I've lost simply because I neglected to capture them on paper while they were still fresh in my brain.
...Boogies. Now I have to go write out that whole Darkverse storyline before I forget exactly how Lisseth winds up on cast, or why Ethyl's name is so ironically sad. And why it winds up not making a difference.

Ah. '5 'til classtime. I'm out.
*Lynati Exits*
Lynati
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 01:55:16 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

*Warpmind enters, yawning.*
Hi, gang.

SJ: You're getting your own Disney show? *Casts a queer look in SJ's direction.* You're kidding, right?

Gunjack Valentine: YOU were surprised? Think of poor little ol' me, who don't even remember what the heck happened! (Really, I want to know what happend, so I can better try to duplicate the moves - if I can do that much damage unconciously, imagine what I can do when I'm DELIBERATE!) As fur guns not working in dreams... I'm not surprised. In the Dreamlands, no item may exist unless it is properly "set" in the Waking World, meaning it has been somewhat unchanged for 500 years. Guns haven't been around on earth for that long, alas... :(

Ooo, new ep... gotta read. Later, that is... I'll download it, and the images (if any) and read it at home, where I don't have to pay for the time I read...

Winterwolf: I doubt the masks will fit you... 'sides, if the fur is on the inside, that kinda kills part of the point with the masks, anyway...

Well, that just about concludes today's post. Just a final little bit from today's lunch break... one of the refugees who work there had some form of cereals with him for lunch. I couldn't help but blurting out "So, you're getting your oats today" when I noticed... strangely, he stared down at the bowl, frowned, tears came to his eyes... and he couldn't manage to get another bite down. Neither could the other English-speaking employees in the lunch room... ]:)
Cheerio, gang.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:58:53 PM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

****Kyryn peers in.****

Cat> At least you've got plotlines. I've got bits and pieces and at least one story with a beginning and an ending and no idea what the heck is going on in the middle (or how to get the two to mesh for that matter).

DPH>Technically you have copyright on any original characters that you create. However, if say someone from Disney "stole" your character, it would be up to you to prove that you had created the original concept long before they came up with the idea and that they had, in fact, had the opportunity to "steal" it from you. If, say, you had walked into the studio several years ago and pitched the idea to them, then they said no, then two years later they came out with something almost totally identical to your idea, then you might have a case. Part of the problem with posting original ideas on the net is that it is so easy to "steal" them.

Later All!

****Kyryn ducks out.****
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:58:05 PM
IP: exofw.aicpa.org

Cat>(smiles at your delightful purring) Have the bad guys win in your story. Writing about the good guys losing after a good story hopfully will make you want to finish the story without getting distracted by a butterfly or yarnball (scritches your head if you don't mind)
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 09:48:44 AM
IP: adsl-63-207-129-41.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!
I woke up thismorning and there was cold wet white stuff falling from the sky!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS TOO EARLY FOR SNOW!!!!!!!!!!! I DON'T WANNA GO TO CLASS!!!!!!!!!
(whine b!tch complain gripe..)
;)
lain
the wired
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 09:05:55 AM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

Todd > Re: "hentai tentacles" - just think of it as the naughty tail trick to the tenth power. :P

Dateline Los Angeles.

Reliable sources confirm: time is running out on early-bird pre-registration for The Gathering 2001! Don't miss out on the savings - pay only $30.00 for your membership before December 31, 2000. Pre-registration rates go to $40.00 as of January 1st.

Now headlining our varied and ever-growing guest list:
Marina Sirtis, voice of Demona / Counsellor Troi of ST:TNG
Thom Adcox-Hernandez, voice of Lexington
Crispin Freeman, voice of Zelgadis from "Slayers"

Plus Greg Weisman and many, many more folks from the "Gargoyles" staff and crew. Visit our web site for full details, and don't forget that you can even register online!

We hope to see YOU in Los Angeles!
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 06:49:25 AM
IP: ac8b12a7.ipt.aol.com

Bloody knuckles. I forgot my glove at fencing. Like I ever use it anyway. Since I can't beat Mecord with a foil (he IS bigger, more experienced, and *ahem* distracting) I attempt a bit of sparring. Does it work? My elbow doesn't think so. *ow*

Thank you everyone for the welcome *purr*. Whatever gave you the impression that I was sane???

<Attilla>*Cat turns deadpan emerald gaze towards the other feline* Yes? Did you want something? *ferral smile displays razerish fangs*

And no, I did not misspell razor. Maybe one day if you're really unlucky you'll learn why. *smirk* Curiosity killed the cat.

*Cat glances over to Archwolf and his new.. hat? and tries to subdue rumbling stomach* ...eating family members kindof destroys family relations... but in anticipation of the holidays, hey! that might not be so bad after all!

Alright. Since I know better than to get involved in religious debates and politicians can bite my tail (none of their teeth are real anyway), I'm going to spend the next half hour or so (when I should be asleep, but you know how that never happens) running ideas past this wonderful ensemble of insanity.

First, I have this problem of starting stories and writing plot outlines that I never finish. Never get nifty bad guys, grow bored of story, get distracted, they all turn into romances? what the.... AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! *grumble* Help? Ideas, suggestions, sympathy for the devil.. oops I mean Cat.

Second, anybody know good ways to hide bodies? Like I said, holidays approach, the paranoia begins again. DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!!

(did someone think I was sane? hmm? was it you? yeah, you hiding in the dark corner, hoping we don't notice you. do you know better now? *nods and smiles* goooood.)

Third, after two years of finally thinking that I don't hate this guy enough to want him dead anymore, he shows up and I'm supposed to keep the guy safe. Alright. Let's start this again. Once upon a time there was a book called Ender's Game which you should all be familiar with or you should die a slow and painful death - soap opera reruns and duct tape. This kid who we'll call Andrew (duh) had this older brother Peter who we'll call Vincent who used to beat the bloody shizzit out of 'im whenever Dad and Mom weren't home. Now in the book, Andrew gets away into outer space, his brother takes over the world that Andrew saved, yadda yadda yadda everybody dies happy. BUT VINCENT JUST WONT DIE! Ok. Deviation. We figure that Vincent is bipolar and that in his manic phase he's extremely violent. The fact that he deals/consumes a drug called Crystal "Meth"amphetamine, which hightens violence, doesn't help a whole lot. Dad and Mom of course have to figure out that there's violence going on, but they do nothing to stop it. Bastards. (was that me? oh my..) Anyway, Vincent goes byebye from Virginia, taking with him quite a bit of the 'rents money. He disappears for years at a time, stopping by to take more money and hide out of state (UT or CO probably.. goodie for me. i live here.) coz he kept consuming the drugs he was supposed to be selling... problematic, neh? Well, two years ago I meet Andrew, recently coming out of the hacker phase he withdrew into to deal with the pain. Ender Wiggin counted doubles to stop the crying, remember? Shortly after meeting Andrew, Vincent showed up again for a day or two after being gone for several years. Vincent *tap taps* on the back of Andrew's head and Andrew catches the wrist, says "Nuh-uh. Not this time." Vincent thankfully leaves. So now, present date, two years later, Vincent surfaces again through the grandparents (he refuses to speak to parents) and extends an invitation to Andrew to meet this April in Utah. Can I kill him pleaze?

We got no idea what state of mind he is in, if he has one. Andrew, the boy who knows everything, estimates that Vincent's mind is about 80% gone bye-bye. We dont know whether or not Vincent will remember the last encounter and will want to play, or if he's going to be friendly, or if pink elephants will fall out of his ears (although it would be neat if they did). Team to meet Vincent in April consists of Andrew who has reflexes of a knife-throwing hacker (he's so kute!), Elizabeth who is a blackbelt in karate, and.. me. I'm there I guess to keep Andrew from homicide. Who's to keep ME from homicide? YOU? Nah. I'm there as support and a watchful eye and Vincent can't kill all three of us.
**END ODD STORY (for those of you who fell asleep)**

Who needs RP when you've got friends like mine? *grin*

My Third odd topic to bring up is manipulation. *A deep masculine voice from the discovery channel pipes up* "Manipulation. The art of controlling people." An art? Ooh, does this mean it's a course offered in college? Yes. It does. It's everwhere. You've been manipulated and you have manipulated others since the day you were born. (watch the thunderbolts rain from the sky... sparklies!) The reason I'm on this subject is because of ShadowWolf. Or at least that's all the reasoning you're going to get. Might I make a request? *watches the room obediently nod* BWAHA! POWER! ok hi sorry it gets to me sometimes.. um, As I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted by the voices in my head *insert Stabbing Westward lyrics HERE* might I request everyone's perception/opinion/observations first on ShadowWolf and how he is different from ArchWolf, then on manipulation in general? What's your definition? You gots examples?


If I am indeed sane, then what are the rest of you? If I am sane, God help the world. If I am sane, can I request my straight jacket in black instead of white? Thank you.

*figures that's enough damage to last a while* enjoy your debating. *small black cat hops up onto Mecord's shoulder and wonders where my sanity ran off to... again*

~t0ke the c1rcu1t~
(just one of a number of odd quotes.. forthcoming.. geez i need a life)
Cat
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 03:04:38 AM
IP: kjerstin.dorms.usu.edu

*Lynati finishes epilogue of "Angels...pt.2", comes back to CR for more tea*

Az...Lain: before you ask, no, the epilogue is all that i have actually written out of that particular story...but the "boot" is working...I'm going to print it out and staple it somewhere I can see it (..so, not to my forehead) for motivation.

Winterwolf: Oh, the coat isn't DEAD...just a little more bald in a few patches. : (

Christine: ah. but still *ticks off on fingers*...Gargoyle bassists...Empowered children...Quotes from red dwarf...Gargoyle/human halfbreeds from a place where time flows different from earth...random dealings with beings that are descended from both gargoyles and elder gods...random dealings with someone who was once Eurydice...utter obliteration of the clones (I dunno, they always bothered me.)...confusion with a gargoyle antichrist(Actually, that one's stretching a bit too far. He's not technically a gargoyle, and he was never actually the antichrist...but he was nearly stoned to death and had to spend nearly a century running from a pair of earthbound angels because of a rumor that he was...)and-
...oh. I'm out of fingers.
(It's a good thing I can't pun my way out of a wet paper bag, or I'd have to include that, too.)
Nothing's identical...although, when Elisa and Goliath's kid hatches, I think I'm going to give him a middle name in honor of your writing...Heh.
Wait! yesss...I can even give a sensible explanation for _that_ name, too! I'm gonna go write that down before I forget... : )

*Lynati exits to go write out remainder of synopsis for story number 20...*



Lynati
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 01:28:00 AM
IP: 208.12.249.253

This is a light post only, as I'm completely brainfried. It occured to me this evening that all I've done for the last two weeks is debate. And when I say "all", I mean I get up, jack in, think/write/argue for ten hours, jack out, and go to bed. I haven't even stepped outside except to go to church... :P

I never thought I'd say this, but I need a vacation from computers. And right after I write that, I walk in and see Entity's latest, and I'm ridding high again. Scary, isn't it? 8D

Entity><<Well, doesn't Gunjack have the most impecable of timing? ;)>> One tries. :) <<I dunno, 20's or 30's, I suppose.>> Heh. That's what Christine thought, a year ago, in person. I guess it's all those late nights reading... :D
<<I'm... well, I guess you could say "questioning"... from which your responses are coming: your pre-established thoughts or new ones?>> Half and half. Some of my premises still look soundworthy, and others I've had to completely rebuild on account of you poking holes in them. :) <<I'm basically interested as to whether or not your recent responses regarding a dictatorial God against whom it's better to subside than to stand up, are from that first camp or the other.>> In this case, I have no clue what is True, so I'm just tossing questions. The only hint I've got comes from my Pragmatism, and it prompted the question "Why?". I only asked in the first place because I thought it was an interesting statement about the human mind; I didn't see the possible connection to *MY* God until today.
Basicly, I'm a Pragmatist. If Good couldn't win, and following the Truth would enevitably lead to ultimate suffering, then why is it "Truth", and why should it be followed? *shrugs* You gave a good answer, but assuming the god wouldn't rellent...

*looks through the rest of the post*

Wheeeee! If I weren't totally brainfried, I'd respond to all this right now, and wakeup calls be danged! :) As it is, It'll keep till morning.

Road Waffles summons me! Merv, Bruno, Halley, I follow your siren call!

PORK!
-Merv
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 01:13:18 AM
IP: 209-223-253-4.ausa.net

**Winterwolf appears**

Hola! Not much time for me tonight just some replies.

Cat> Welcome to Fantasy Island! Oh wait scratch that... What I meant to say is welcome to the CR! Make yourself at home and enjoy your stay! It's too late to turn back now for the room has claimed a part of you for all time! **manic laughter is heard through the room** ;)

Shadowrider> Well I got one email but not the mysterious MP3. Hey Emambu, share the wealth! I want to get a copy but I'm low on email storage space. Not that you'll get to read this but I'll send you a snail mail soon. ^_^

Lynati> <coat> That's sad tale of the final days of the coat that made you happy. :(

Niamhgold> <Protest at the compliments> No can do! That came from the heart and there are no take backs! ^_^ You'll just have to live with the idea that I think so highly of you! :) <no faces> It's kind of fun this way. My brain makes weird associations with people I've never seen. I will identify them with colors, shapes, fragrances, symbols, formulas, equations and objects. <third person> I would talk about you in the first person but nobody would understand. Not that anyone understands me now! LOL <cold> Well, once you pass on the cold to others that's when you are all better! ^_^

Cherry Blossom> "She's alive! ALIVE!" :P

DPH> <Insert Name> Well let's get audience participation! The pizza place is A. Mario's B. Tony's C. Domino's or D. Pizza Hut or secret choice E. You pick a name! :)

SOROW> Hi! I miss you SOROW! Hope you get some down time soon. ;)

Caliope> Hi Cali!! Welcome back!! I missed you so much I haven't eaten or slept in days... okay not days... hours. LOL :P But I have something for you! **SMOTHERING FUZZY HUGZ** ^_^ <previous weeks comments> If you want the previous week of CR stuff click on the link at the top of the room! It reads: Last week's Comment Room. ;) <Roswell> Are you up to date or confused as to that other girl being chummy with them? I'll wait for you to pick up on this! <exotic> Hey you're exotic? Can I get a dance or something then? ;P <Anime con> How about the con? You sounded really psyched before you left! Talk to you more later! **HUGZ** ^_^

Warpmind> Hey do you have one of those masks that will fit over my big wolfish mouth and schnoz? ;) <dance> Actually I believe there is a dance if you want to dance at G2001. <arm> O.O Sounds like a combustible work environment with some short fuses to boot! While it doesn't sound too bad, since it won't scar, I still wish you a quick and complete recovery! :)

AingealKelly> Hi and welcome to the CR!

Guess that's it for now. Adios!

**Winterwolf disappears**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:41:15 AM
IP: 206.15.120.120

Gunjack, re: age > LOL, you got that right! I never would have guessed ... but it's shock in a pleasant, hope-for-the-future way! You've got it lots more together than plenty of people I know who are twice your age! ; )

Lynati > hey, there are some folks who read that story when it was first posted who _still_ haven't got that pun, so you're doing pretty well! ; ) And about the similarity of ideas thing, oh, that happens all the time ... there was a while there when Christi (Spike) and I were so in sync it was getting scary ... that plus the similar names (plus the occasional saucy tail ... er, TALE, I mean <g>) contributed to how easily and often people confuse us two. She's the one who can also draw ; )

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:02:13 AM
IP: 16-185.009.popsite.net

At the risk of starting YET another debate, I had to try this one:< <<<I think you're right, but can you point it out?>>> Maybe if you compare feelings to instincts? I have trouble classifying it, too. Or how about this: feelings are actionary, emotions are reactionary. > How about this one.

A personality is made up of four things: Emotions, Feelings, Ideals, and Beliefs. Emotions are the most basic building block. If I can't feel something about a topic, I can't really go any further with it either. Next comes Feelings, these are really just emotions that stayed around long enough to gain tenure. Ideals are made of feelings, the Ideal of Peace has a lot of Love and Patience and such, while the Ideal of Conflict has a lot of Hate and Vengence and such. Beliefs are made up of Ideals. Most people only have one or two true Beliefs. My Belief in God has part of my Ideal of Peace AND my Ideal of Conflict. It is only with all of these wound together that we can have what we call "personality."

Does that work for you two? ;)


Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Monday, November 13, 2000 11:53:43 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

*Archwolf strolls in with a shape shifting bird perched on his head*

Hey all, not much ging on now, just have a sec to post before I read the Pendragon Season Finale.

Angeal. Good to see ya in here, packsis. It's a good place, just don't let the Wolves, Gargoyles, and Xenomorphs scare you off.

Lynati> Heh. I had the same reaction when I got the Pun.

Well, gotta go
Shade and Sweet Water
Archwolf - [archwolf@collegeclub.com]
Monday, November 13, 2000 11:36:56 PM
IP: viking202-88.dhcp.csuohio.edu

*Lynati bursts throughthe gate, face purply*

BBBBBBLLLLLLLAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!

"Yukoned Bea...."!!!! $%#@$^%^ !!!
I had to go and write it down!(moans)
Christine, I read that story TWO HOURS ago, and just got that! Horrible! :O >O >P >)

*Lynati sprints back into Outer Lurk, holding her nose*
Lynati
Monday, November 13, 2000 11:15:54 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

<But Socrates is not looked upon as "canon" by his readers. >
That depends on to which “readers” you refer. I know some who truly “follow” Socrates.

<A doctor appears to you in person, shakes your hand, reviews his findings with you, explains everything to your satisfaction, and gives you his number. >
Yep, he does. God gave me his, too. Its called prayer and faith.

< In school I remember our teacher giving us a test that had particular instructions. >
Hey, I remember that one, too. I was the one in my class who got it right. The fact is, though, that the instructions WERE given and everyone knew what they were. They just decided that logically it didn’t matter. What they found out was that they needed “faith” in what the teacher told them, and for that lack of faith, they didn’t pass the “test.”

<They were punished for not following their creator (so he claimed) like dumb deer, basically. >
If you want to look at it that way, sure. However, I get the idea that God is God. Its hard to mistake him for just another guy. Also, the people knew what a serpent was, and unless things were a lot different than we think they were, snakes didn’t talk. What, they weren’t the least suspicious about this talking reptile? It’s possible, I suppose, but I kinda doubt it.

<Earth was initially supposed to be heaven, but after Adam and Eve's punishment, he felt he should still reward their children with paradise, and thus life-after-death was born?>
I don’t know that I’ve ever actually thought of it that way, but possibly. Fact of the matter is, it doesn’t matter at this point. Interesting thought, though.

<Life isn't eternal.> Fair enough. According to one philosophy, though, neither is Hell. The Catholics, after all, believe in Purgatory. Others believe that because one of the biggest things to people in the Old Testament was that their lines not die out, Hell is just final death. I guess it depends on your views about Hell.

<How do you mean? You do believe in Hell, right?>
Yes, but I believe that I’m not going there. I also believe that anyone who follows God’s instructions is pretty safe, too. I try to reach everyone with whom I have contact, and convince them to follow God, well, more specifically Jesus. How about this summary, though. In the End, everyone will get what’s coming to him/her.

Todd> I do believe that Adam and Eve were immortal. It wasn’t until they ate the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that their immortality was taken away.

It’s like this, for every offense there was a punishment. For Adam, who just ate the fruit, he lost his immortality. For Eve, who not only ate the fruit, but also tempted Adam, she lost her immortality and had to have pain during childbirth. For the serpent, who tempted the two, he was sentenced to crawl around on his belly for all eternity (or at least the rest of his life).

Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Monday, November 13, 2000 11:12:16 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Well, doesn't Gunjack have the most impecable of timing? ;)

<<<Out of curiousity, how old did you think I was?>>> I dunno, 20's or 30's, I suppose. You're well-versed, have a mature yet secure attitude about you, you can successfully compose a setences (and a thought for that matter) and, though this may be prejudiced, you're "a believer." ;)

<<<you really should look up the S-man; he's the logical equivilent to single-malt scotch>>> In that case, I'll get right on it... especially in light of what I'm poised to say in a little bit, that'll look rather hypocritical otherwise.

<<<What do you mean, "humoring"?>>> I'm not questioning your responses to me. I'm... well, I guess you could say "questioning"... from which your responses are coming: your pre-established thoughts or new ones? I'm basically interested as to whether or not your recent responses regarding a dictatorial God against whom it's better to subside than to stand up, are from that first camp or the other.

<<<And I'm still waiting for replies to most of MY stuff, too...>>> Have I skipped stuff?

<<<I read it, but I tend to discard anything Crichton writes... Donno why, I've just never believed the guy...>>> Well, most of what he writes -is- just made up, but it -was- provocative. In any case, I couldn't explain to you he math that supports my theory of order from chaos. I just know it's out there. I'm not a mathematician, nor would I ever venture to be one. As for the laws of physics, I'd say those laws are based on the order that results from the chaos. In that way, they are reliable, but ultimately, it all comes down to chaos. Some say that the wider the picture, the more pattern emerges. I say the opposite. Not that I have any credentials or proofs to support this.

<<<Enough Gravity could actually collapse all space?>>> That could be it, but that far a stretch isn't necessary. What I'm saying is, if the expansion/contraction theory is to account for all of the universe, and the universe is defined by the extent of existence within which all known laws of physics apply, then when the universe contracts, it drags back with it ALL matter and ALL energy that was expanded, since the energy and matter cannot go beyond the universe without stretching its boundaries.

<<<how far would we have gotten in our dialogue if I had declared at the beggining "I love (or "trust", or "fear", ect.) God>>> But again, those are emotions put to ill use. If that had been the case, I wouldn't have blamed the emotion, but the state of mind of the one wielding it. :)

<<<In my opinion, if there were not a "God-given conscience", we would see far more varience in basic morals.>>> I don't think so. I wager we would've come to the same set of principles we value today, just perhaps in a more roundabout and inefficient way.

<<<I think you're right, but can you point it out?>>> Maybe if you compare feelings to instincts? I have trouble classifying it, too. Or how about this: feelings are actionary, emotions are reactionary.

<<<Apparently, yes. Please continue the thought.>>> Do I need to? What do -you- think about that?

<<<First, the Universe is, at it's core, orderly.>>> Unprovable. Chaos from order or order from chaos are only provable over the other on chalkboards. <<<Second, Truth is a reflection of the Divine.>>> You already assume the existence of the Devine. <<<Third, Christianity reflects Truth better than other religions.>>> Subjective, so I won't argue it.

<<<Actually, I meant the fact that the "Big Bang" theory is built around the unproven (and possibly unprovable) assumptions that the Universe has always existed and that order can arrise from chaos.>>> If the Universe didn't always exist, what came before?

<<<Why would I smack you?>>> That's a pressure valve in case I get too arrogant, which I've been known to do. :) <<<When faced with a disagreement between beliefs and feelings, the choice is between logic or suicide...>>> Are you saying logic bails you out of suicide? That you wouldn't wish to live in a world where there is no God?

<<<I simply assume that, for all practical purposes,
he's ALWAYS existed.>>> I'd say the self-creation explanation works better. Rather than contradict laws of time you can embrace their retro off-shoots. The sort that propose circular or sphereical time.

<<<Since the Hell I'm refering to is defined as "Seperation from God, it's existed (in concept, at least) for as long as God has.>>> So, what constitutes separation from God? We're not separated right now?

<<<The Bible fits all the evidence we have of the periods it describes>>> Excluding some liberties for dramatic licence, particularly for the Old Testament. <<<it mantains internal consistency despite being written by multiple authors
over thousands of years>>> Some would accuse it of not being internally consistent enough. If God was the Bible's author, why wouldn't it be 100% consistent? <<<and it accurately describes both the physical and the spiritual world.>>> This is subjective.

<<<wcould you explain that last bit again, the part about contributors vs construction?>>> Sorry. :) That was an idle side thought. I meant that not all those whose works appear in the Bible wrote -for- the Bible, but rather their works were compiled into the Bible later on.

<<<The problem is, none of the suggested motives for making
up a religion fits the religion that was started.>>> I wanna tackle this, along with a couple other points I glossed over... but I'm with you. I'm tired. I can't believe I got this far.

'Night :)

P.S. Didn't get to the prophecied hypocritical thing. This'll remind me to do it tomorrow.
Entity
Monday, November 13, 2000 10:44:01 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

*Lynati twitches by the fireplace and wakes up*
Hrmpf? ..no duct tape this time. good.

Oh-a new pendragon. glad i stuck around...actually, I dreamwalked over to christine morgan's site again and finished devouring most of her gargfics. Arrrgh! the "Similarity of Ideas" plague again! I'm going to look like such a rip-off artist..ah, well. At least I know what's mine...

Time Zones...I missed the x-files the other night, simply because it felt too early for it to be on. >sigh<

Gunjack: (increduosly) Vengeance? You've been around here for how long, and you STILL haven't learned that lesson? ;)
...besides, it was just a prank. And meant to be harmless.
We thank you for the compliments...*blushes*
The song-you had it attributed to..I forget who, and I asked which was the band that originally performed it? the band whose version you were listening to, or Kansas? (I only ever heard the Kansas version.)

ummm-for the one who asked...I didn't notice if anyone already anwered this...Hentai, I am given to believe, is japanese animated (Lynati turns red behind her light grey fur)...porn...I had to ask someone about it once, too, and I had a friend who really liked _all_ Anime, and, well, naughty tentacles did come up in her expalantion, refering to a certain video series...
One of which I NEVER plan on seeing.
(That converstation may have been the catalyst for one of the more popular sayings in my stories-"Don't ask, because someone just might tell you."...it ranks right up there with "Don't knock it 'til ya've tried it..." Actually, I beleive the two are often used in congruence...)
ahem.

ahh...I'm going to go read the new ep. Then i've got to start more transcribing...
*Lynati Exits*
Lynati
Monday, November 13, 2000 10:40:05 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

(preposted sorry. okay now like I was saying) **SKIP THIS POST NOW WARNING WARNING SPOILERS SPOILERS** I didn't like it. I've read worse though **END**
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Monday, November 13, 2000 10:28:32 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-131-209.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

Okay I read it but **SKIP THIS POST NOW WARNING WARNING SPOILERS SPOILERS**
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Monday, November 13, 2000 10:27:17 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-131-209.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

SJ- Sevarius Jr: The Animated Series? Sounds like the greatest friggin series of all time, destined for a 14 year, 600 episode run, plus multiple spin-offs and its own comic book and book series! I know _I'D_ watch it... But then, that wouldn't compare at all to a XENOGEARS cartoon...

Todd- Hentai tentacles... Uhm... Well, "hentai" means pervert in japanes, and tentacles are long objects... You do the math.

Entity- Egads, that reference to the next Trek film sounds like early references to "Batman and Robin"... THis could be bad.

Lain- As someone whose seen Serial Experiments Lain, you're new name honestly creeps me out a bit... Oooooh...

Pendragon- We're at the season finale? NERTZ! I *really* need to get cracking on my main cycle stories...
Robby
Monday, November 13, 2000 10:18:03 PM
IP: spider-wl081.proxy.aol.com

Todd Jensen> My point exactly. (goes off to red new Pendragon episode)
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Monday, November 13, 2000 10:03:43 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-131-209.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

***Kyryn steps in early a bunch of POed gremlins are with her. She points at DC and the gremlins grab him and run out of the room.*** (PC problems earlier)

Gentlebeings,

TGS now presents

The Once and Future King, Pt.2

Written by Todd Jensen

Full circle....or is it....

***Kyryn steps aside to avoid the rush and exits the room following the gremlins.***
Kyryn - [<<--clicky,clicky!]
Denton, TX
Monday, November 13, 2000 09:44:51 PM
IP: denm1-15.iglobal.net

Wheeee! The day started out ugly, but a touch of logic cures all ills. :) ...Plus, I'm on a musically-induced combat high ("Combat High": the irrational need to express joy or elation by shooting things), and entity's firing broadsides. And to top it all off, it seems Road Waffles is once again under production. PORK!
Now, if I could get my ping below 1200, this'd be an ideal day. :)

Oh yeah, one other thing. Our car threw a rod a few days ago (knocked a fist-sized hole in the engine), so I'm screwed as far as learning to drive goes... :P And without personal transport, I'm NEVER gonna get to the Gathering. There's always a downer...

Yeah, I got your stinkin' replies right HERE! 8D *scans the posts as he practices fastdraw/snapshots with DC...*

Entity><<Didn't figure you for my age.>> Heh. Out of curiousity, how old did you think I was? Some of the guesses have been pretty far off, even in person. Right, Christine? ;)
<<My God, man, _another_ one? Just how many Texans are there in here?>> Heh. There's just something about Texas that attracts cool people... ;) <<You know, that's interesting, because I've been thinking about divulging my idea for solving this whole election business: De-anex Texas.>> Don't talk so loud, you may give them ideas... :P <<The U.S. unloads a strip of smoggy, oily desert (I can already tell how this'll go over) and Texas finally frees itself of the inferiority complex its had ever since Alaska. ;)>> You're confusing Texas with WEST Texas... My part of the glorious state looks like a golf course right now. :)
<<Suddenly I feel inadequate. :)>> Not even close. You're at LEAST as good as me and Greg at this... Though if you enjoy good logic, you really should look up the S-man; he's the logical equivilent to single-malt scotch. :)
<<...I'll sit here and furiously type about it! ;)>> Weenie. *I'LL* be trying to convince Wilek and Warpmind to help frag the silly ass... 8P
<<In any case, I can't help but ask: How much of your responses are you making up as you go along to humor me, and how much is actually taken from your own rationalizing?>> O_o ...What do you mean, "humoring"? I'm not just making things up, but I *am* using the dialogue to examine and refine my beliefs. I don't have all (or even many) of the answers, but I'm LOOKING for the ones that match the questions you put forward... <<I don't want to get too inflated, though, so make the rest of those responses good ones.>> It shall be done... And I'm still waiting for replies to most of MY stuff, too... ;)
Oh, and thanks for the tip on "Cows with Guns". :D

Archwolf><<I was all set to have a food fight today...and it got canceled.>> Bummer... :( <<It hurt a lot when the head coach retired me this year.>> Why the heck would he do that? O_o

Lynati><<I love this coat! it makes me happy! Happy!>> I need a coat like that... <<Also, I get people commenting that I look like I'm from the movie "The Matrix"...>> My opinion of the coat just went up a notch or two... :) <<*Duck tape incident*>> o_O ...Need any help exacting sweet revenge? <<Thank You. *Takes a bow* It's "from" my Foundations Class.>> YOU wrote that? COOL! 8D <<AND-was that you I was supposed asking the "Dust in the Wind" thing to? I'm pretty sure it was; it's still bothering me.>> Yeah, I think it was me... *blinks* what was the question again? Sorry... :P

Cherry Blossom><<Oh yes! and now Hudson is taking over GFW and he banned me from s8. *rolls her eyes*>> Who's Hudson?

Gside - Thanks for "Edmund Fitzgerald"; it makes a nice companion piece to "Robert MacKenzie"! :) By the way, what was the reference to an "aniversery" about? <<La lalala>> I woulda quoted that part too, but it seemed to lack that special lyrical something... :P
<<I liked the kielbasa bit. Actually, I like kielbasa.>> But would you have liked that conversation? o_O <<Just wait.>> That sounds... Ominous. :)

Shadowrider><<Naturally, you have already a proper ramp, an illumination radar and a control center, isn't it? ;)>> Nah... I figure me and the boys can figure out how to jury-rig it for wire-guide, and we'll probably launch it out the back of an 18-wheeler...
<<Oh, thank you for the quote. Appropriate, in some way...;)>> Glad you think so... :)

Lain><<don't you people know that violence never solves anything???>> Maybe not, but it makes me feel SOOOO good inside... ;D <<He just wants attention, you know, and you're all giving him exactly what he wants...>> If he wants THIS kind of attention, he's a hardcore masochist... <<I will take responsibility for the actions of DC, so if you have any further problems, feel free to take them up with me, as I now assign myself the position of DC's guardian...>> ...o_O ...Uh... Can she DO that!? *turns to Lain* And how am I supposed to take things up with you after DC frags my HD and I need to kill something? Are you saying I should *shudder* ...give up my homicidal tendencies?
I'm s-s-scared... The world doesn't make sense... *Valentine crawls under his desk and starts to gibber*

;)

Lain(again)><<I have had problems with stalkage...>> Problem: Stockage. Solution: Berreta Centurion .357 SIG w/ 14 round mag hi-cap and LAM unit.
In some cases, violence solves EVERYTHING *smiles grimly*
<<Has anyone else heard about it??>> Are you saying you've never heard of Sailor Moon? o_O

Traveler><<Then again, since I haven't heard of any high profile executives being fired, having an "accident", or otherwise have been assassinated by the Yakuza in a traditional sword attack....>> You haven't heard about these things, because Sony WINS. With gamers withering to death waiting for PS2 to arrive, demand only gets higher. <<Or, you could have pre-ordered six months in advance (on a whim no less >:)) walked in the store at about 1:00pm on Oct. 26th and walked out less than 10 minutes later with precious cargo in hand and spent the next few days in hysterics at the riots and pornographic amounts of money people were willing to pay for them on ebay.>> I say we KEEELL him..! ;) <<Blue Submarine No.6- I missed most of this...>> *reads spoilers* 'kay, my estimation of this series just went WAY up... <<Heh... that reminds me of the music video someone mixed using Trigun and a certain Metallica cover...>> What song? If it's "Whisky in the Jar"...

Caliope><<I'm back! So common guys, just HOW much did ya miss me?! HOW much?! :P>> THIS MUCH! *spreads his arms really, really wide* :) Welcome back!

Warpmind><<Grmf... got into a bad situation today...>> *Valentine reads the post, and whistles* ...DANG. He came at you with a knife, and HE'S the one that ended up on the floor? o_O It's too bad you had to do it, but you're still the MAN... <<No need to fear, amigo - Dreamlands objects or creatures have a VERY limited lifespan in the Waking World; they rarely manage to stay for more than a day...>> Easy for you to say, but you don't dream the way I do... *shudders* And my guns never seem to work in my dreams.


-Religion/Physics/Logic Stuff-

Entity (who else?)><<I'm dead opposite you on this. I see order from chaos, not the other way around.>> But do you think the foundations of reality (ie the laws of physics and logic) are chaotic? <<Current mathematical theory (well, one side of it) supports this.>> Could you explain, preferably using really small words? I suck at math... :P <<Ever read "Jurassic Park"? Malcolm's infamous Chaos Theory is a good case in point.>> I read it, but I tend to discard anything Crichton writes... Donno why, I've just never believed the guy...

<<I would imagine, since the universe is defined by the extent of existence we can identify with.>> Ah. I think I'm beggining to understand the theory. You're saying that not only does the matter in the universe collapse, but it pulls all of SPACE in after it? o_O ...That posibility had never occured to me. Enough Gravity could actually collapse all space? How?

<<I don't see it as much as the good emotions vs. the bad, but how an individual handles any given one.>> Since this issue has resurfaced, let me rephrase the question. Which emotions do you consider an aid to rational thinking? Since most logical questions start with doubt, I prize it rather highly. Most of the other feelings and emotions, when placed in a logical conversation, only serve to cloud the issue.
For example, how far would we have gotten in our dialogue if I had declared at the beggining "I love (or "trust", or "fear", ect.) God, and I'm not gonna listen to some athiest pester him with stupid doubts"?

<<Well, I don't personally believe in conscience. I see it as an abstract construct intended to represent moral thought processes, which are really no different than any others.>> And yet, despite how much all our thoughts differ, a vast majority of Humanity agrees on the basic issues of Right and Wrong... In my opinion, if there were not a "God-given conscience", we would see far more varience in basic morals. <<There's a narrow difference, I think.>> I think you're right, but can you point it out? I'm having trouble classifying it.

<<Here's my question (open to everyone)...>> A good question, but you seem to come at the issue from the wrong end. I'm assuming you're asking about prayer during *this* life, as I'm still a bit leery of Purgatory.
The purpose of prayer isn't to have God bend reality to accomidate our wishes. Look at the "Lord's Prayer" (and how's this for application of the Bible to day-to-day life?): Jesus expresses praise, asks for the bare nescessities, asks for forgiveness, and pledges to follow God. No mention of "wants", just "needs". Prayer's primary purpose seems to be to encourage a two-way relationship between God and man; God has spoken through his word, and we speak back through prayer.
Now for specifics. <<...do you see prayer as a sort of "playing favorites"?>> How can it be playing favorites if He listens to anyone who sincerely petitions him? <<If you get prayed for, you're helped, but if not... are you not helped?>> Apparently, yes. Please continue the thought.

<<That it's good for us. But in what way? We can't say. So, we must simply believe that God knows and we don't. But that requires faith. And faith has been the object of this little proof.>>
Statement: God demands faith for unexplained reasons.
I could accept this; my understanding of God accepts the fact that there are some questions that will never be answered. Plus, this quandry isn't exactly hacking pieces out of me, since I haven't based my faith on physical manifestations of God.
On this one, though, I'm still not convinced that we can't at least have a good idea of God's reasons. Gimme a while to think about it...

<<Correct.>> Then your theory hinges on whether God has left enough evidence, and "enough" is a hard term to define exactly.
Here's how I'd put it: Both Athiesm and Christianity have equally (non)scientific explanations for the origins of the universe, but Christainity doesn't conflict with our understanding of science, and (assuming I can eliminate your "truth is a force" statement) Athiesm DOES conflict with what we experience as humans.
Near as I can tell, my Faith rests on three points. First, the Universe is, at it's core, orderly. Second, Truth is a reflection of the Divine. Third, Christianity reflects Truth better than other religions.
Were all three of these points removed, I think I would become, at the least, an agnostic.

<<If by blind faith you mean the conclusion that the basis of existence is chaos, and that order is merely an appearence, thereby making existence meaningless, and thus, Godless, sure.>> Actually, I meant the fact that the "Big Bang" theory is built around the unproven (and possibly unprovable) assumptions that the Universe has always existed and that order can arrise from chaos.

<<Again, we run into this apparent contradiction between your feelings and Christianity. Is perhaps the reason you've embraced logic so much a result of these uncooperative feelings? (Feel free to smack me at any point.)>> Why would I smack you? o_O ...When faced with a disagreement between beliefs and feelings, the choice is between logic or suicide... Unfortunately, my feelings are split on the issue. I still can't see any way around Hell without sacrificing God's nature (see last reply...), and so if I believe in God, I must believe in Hell.

<<If God did not create Himself, then he was "produced" in some fashion, by something else... the universe? existence?>> Since God created both the Universe and Existence, neither of those will work... And since God seems to have existed before Time, the question has no meaning. There is no data available (as in NONE), so the question is impossible to answer. In an attempt to cut down on headaches caused by pobering impossible questions, I simply assume that, for all practical purposes, he's ALWAYS existed. Yes, this contradicts science, but he created THAT, too... :)
<<But as for Hell, doesn't it say that He -did- in fact create it?>> Not to my knowledge... <<There was no Hell before Lucifer's fall, was there?>> Since the Hell I'm refering to is defined as "Seperation from God, it's existed (in concept, at least) for as long as God has.

<<That this second-hand, nay, third-hand information is actually right.>> And what would you accept as evidence? The Bible fits all the evidence we have of the periods it describes, it mantains internal consistency despite being written by multiple authors over thousands of years, and it accurately describes both the physical and the spiritual world.

<<I know that a lot can still be applied today, that though the specifcs have changed, the meanings behind them haven't, etc. But was the intention of the Bible contributers (I say contributers rather than writers because so much of the Bible seems to be a compilation of works not necessarily related to the construction of it)...>> Huh? o_o ...wcould you explain that last bit again, the part about contributors vs construction? <<...to create these timeless lessons or address the immediate issues at hand?>> From everything I've seen of the NT, it seems they did both. They addressed specific issues, and then explained WHY what they said was true.
<<A letter doesn't seem to be the best way to preserve wisdom for all generations.>> Why not? Paul's letters, in particular, are pretty much solid philosophy and theology, with occasional applications to the questions at hand. <<There's no way of knowing.>> Sez who? ;)

<<Prove to me that what we really have is "evidence" and then maybe we can take those training quotes off the word.>> Gimme a bit. I've got a lot of time, but I gotta sleep occasionally... :) <<It doesn't preclude the possibility that Christianity, too, was invented, but that its inventors simply vieled it as revelation.>> The problem is, none of the suggested motives for making up a religion fits the religion that was started.
<<Which I do, so there you go. ;)>> Heh. You DO know your gonna lose that fight, right? ;D

And there I end it. I've got stuff to do tonight, and I've spent 5 hours writing and thinking... I'll catch up the rest of the way tomorrow.

And should I return safe, home again to England
I shall watch the english mist roll through the Dell
For you are beautiful and I have loved you dearly,
more dearly than the spoken word can tell...
-Gordon Lightfoot, "The last Farewell"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 13, 2000 09:38:09 PM
IP: 209-223-253-4.ausa.net

Azrael> <<<Socrates was not trying to give millenia
worth of wisdom, either.>>>

But Socrates is not looked upon as "canon" by his readers.

<<<If a doctor tells you to quit eating red meat or you'll have a heart attack and die, and then when you continue eating red meat and have said heart attack, is that the Doctor's fault?>>>

A doctor appears to you in person, shakes your hand, reviews his findings with you, explains everything to your satisfaction, and gives you his number.

<<<He gives us exact instructions, a "Get to Heaven for Dummies" if you will.>>>

If it's all ultimately a test of 'following the directions', what's the point? In school I remember our teacher giving us a test that had particular instructions. What followed the instructions was intentionally meant to look straightforward. Of course, it was a test to see who read the directions and did it right, versus who skipped the directions and winged it. As I recall, one person in our class did it correctly. Those other kids are just as well Hell-bound, I suppose.

<<<They knew the consequences, they knew what God said, and they disobeyed.>>>

Yes, exactly. They knew the consequences, according to what -God- told them, and knew what -God- said, and that all they need do to live lives in paradise was obey -God-. Well, what frame of reference did they have to trust God? Along comes this serpent, whom God never mentioned before, and puts a totally new spin on things. They were punished for not following their creator (so he claimed) like dumb deer, basically.

<<<He also took away their immortality (in theory), but a punishment had to be given.>>>

Interesting... I don't think I've ever heard this side of it. So, does this explain why there is a heaven, but God plops us here first? Earth was initially supposed to be heaven, but after Adam and Eve's punishment, he felt he should still reward their children with paradise, and thus life-after-death was born?

<<<I will admit that God isn't exactly fair. Neither is Life.>>>

Life isn't eternal.

<<<The difference is that with God, at least we know that eventually it will all be better>>>

How do you mean? You do believe in Hell, right?

Todd> <<<Just what ARE Hentai Tentacles, anyway?>>>

Heh heh... you're congregating with unwholesome folk in here, Todd. ;)

<<<I'm honestly doubtful that Adam and Eve were created immortal>>>

Crap. There goes my heaven theory, though of course, Todd must be right.

Star Trek> Yes, a topic actually NOT religion and NOT politics! Can you believe it? Anyhow, here's the scoop:

"Berman also revealed there's an interesting story arc for Data in the movie and the mood of the film is "more light-hearted and more action-oriented. In a nutshell, it's a rip-roaring adventure with a lot of humor"."

Yes, it's in reference to the next Star Trek Picture. Anyone else's stomach's turning?

Final Fantasy> No, no info, but just a commentary. I read a "scooper" who was reporting on the latest FF teaser. Get this. He -criticized- it for not telling enough of the plot, while dually being -too- interesting. Apparently, he felt this a great injustice. This is what's wrong with people today. I don't -want- to know what's going to happen in a movie. All they should ever put out -are- teasers. *sigh* The guy went on to relay, apparently, what little he -could- glisten... which, to me, came off like a whole friggin' synopsis, and I'm already wishing I'd averted my eyes.
Entity
Monday, November 13, 2000 09:27:46 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

**here goes**
::Falcon drops from window and perches on Archwolf's head:: Heylo... I be Kris... her ::points at Cat: sister and theirs... ::points at Mecord and Archwolf:: Well... I knida am... Wolfboy here talked me into coming out of corner. I don't know a lot about this.. but i an curious as any feline. ::grins:: I'm also a shapeshifer... kinda... among other things. I'll be in and out...I use AIM so if anyone wants to visit I'm AingealGirl or svcLady. Be careful tho.. I bite ;) ::quiets and remains perched on Archwolf::
**is all for now**
AingealKelly - [aingealkelly@yahoo.com]
Monday, November 13, 2000 09:26:25 PM
IP: 207.42.162.18

Sevarius Jr> I almost took you seriously :b

Cat> Hiya toots ::wink, nuzzle::

Reverend Attila - [revattila@catsrule.garfield.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Monday, November 13, 2000 09:05:55 PM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

Sevarius Jr> Congrads on the show. I'm looking forward to watching it. I may not agree with all your opinions but I like to read them, and now you can get them to a wider audience. A toast to your success.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 13, 2000 07:50:32 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

Just what ARE Hentai Tentacles, anyway?

I'm honestly doubtful that Adam and Eve were created immortal, given that Adam was formed from the "dust of the earth", which sounds pretty mortal to me. (And Eve as a derivative of Adam via his rib would thus ultimately have sprung from the "dust of the earth" herself). I feel more inclined to view God's "dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return" as a statement of conditions that had always been the case for Adam from the start, rather than as part of the curses placed upon them after the Fall (like the thorns and thistles, the pain in childbirth for Eve, and the serpent crawling around henceforth on his belly and eating dust).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 13, 2000 07:48:18 PM
IP: 216.87.46.8.dialup-stl.primary.net

<<Assumption 1: Somebody from Disney checks this room once a week.
Assumption 2: That person finds something they like in the RPs so they pitch an idea of a similiar character to the company.
Assumption 3: Disney decides to follow that person's recommendation. >>

I'm glad you mentioned this DPH. I had wanted to keep this under wraps, but I'm afraid that I can no longer contain the news.

The *real* reason that Greg is back at Disney is because....well, he's developing a "Sevarius Jr." tv show.

Yes, it's true. I'm getting my own series. I wanted it to be live action...I've had furious talks with Mr. Eisner, but unfortunately he doesn't fully understand my vision...but it'll be animated. Anime style. I've got a deal for 40 episodes right now, and you can be damn sure that the show will feature the Gargoyles. And big-bosomed babes. And a few giant robots, for the Gundam junkies. And ME of course!

Everyone at Disney is just enamored by me. Greg is going to be working under me....you know, fetching my coffee, tweaking the scripts a little (apparently Disney isn't totally happy with my use of expletives.....right, as if Brooklyn wouldn't *really* tell Demona to "F@#$ off" in *real life*), shining my shoes, stuff like that. He's a good boy.

Now, the show won't debut for a while, but be on the look for it! The working title is "Sevarius Jr.: The Animated Series". I originally pulled for "SJ and the Amazing Hentai Tentacles", but Standards and Practices shot that down for some reason....
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Monday, November 13, 2000 07:34:56 PM
IP: 129.174.163.28

Religion: Lots of stuff, and I don't have time to reply to it all, but this one caught my attention.
Entity:<<A letter doesn't seem to be the best way to preserve wisdom for all generations.>> No, it doesn't. You're probably correct that they only thought they were talking to those people who were around then, but most people believed that Jesus would return in a matter of years, not millenia. Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter. Socrates was not trying to give millenia worth of wisdom, either. It wasn't until Plato wrote most of it down that anyone thought of it as a "philisophical masterpiece." If what they said relates, it relates. Period.

Now, onto God being "cruel" or "unfair." How is he "cruel?" Because he expects people to make a choice and abide by it? How, for that matter, is it unfair? If a doctor tells you to quit eating red meat or you'll have a heart attack and die, and then when you continue eating red meat and have said heart attack, is that the Doctor's fault? Was he cruel or unfair? No, he told you what was going to happen, you made your choice, and suffered the consequences. God says, believe in Me and do what I say, or you'll go to Hell. If I choose not to believe and do everything I want to do here on earth, when I die, if I go to Hell, I have nothing to complain about. This is neither unfair nor cruel. He's not going to strike you down, but at the same time, He's told you the consequences if you don't do as he says, He's even told you exacly what he will and will not allow. He gives us exact instructions, a "Get to Heaven for Dummies" if you will. 10 really basic instructions not to go to hell.

Now, as far as the inevitable argument: God created us, so its his fault. Not so. God created Adam and Eve, and even walked with them. It was the serpent, whom we accept now as an incarnation of Satan, who tempted Adam and Eve to eat the forbiden fruit. They knew the consequences, they knew what God said, and they disobeyed. So, God, being merciful, kicked them out of the Garden and did not strike them down imediately. He let them live. He also took away their immortality (in theory), but a punishment had to be given. Being kicked out of the Garden was not so much a punishment as a stop-gap to prevent them from becoming immortal again.

I will admit that God isn't exactly fair. Neither is Life. Bad things happen to good people; good things happen to bad people. This has great vacuum-like qualities, but its the way things are. All of us have had something happen to us that we don't consider "fair" but that doesn't change the fact that it happens. The difference is that with God, at least we know that eventually it will all be better, whereas with out God, we know no such thing. Real comforting, huh. :|

It comes down to this, God is not exactly fair. He's not out to get us, but neither is he the easiest task-master ever. At the same time neither is he cruel. He puts forth rules, and expects them to be obeyed. When they aren't, you will face the consequences, no exceptions. Now, while we're still on earth, those consequences can be as little as saying "I'm sorry." If we wait too long, though, those consequences become a bit more dreadful.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Monday, November 13, 2000 07:09:42 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

GARGOYLES VOICE ACTORS IN OTHER ROLES MENTION - I was watching NBC's "In the Beginning" last night, and noted that they had David (the Archmage) Warner in the role of Eliezer of Damascus, Abraham's steward. A small role, but I did recognize his very memorable and effective voice.

BATMAN BEYOND - I don't feel too comfortable about the notion that the whole "sabotage business" was just a trick that everybody was in on but Terry, because of what the implications would be for the explosions all over Metropolis. If that was the case, then that means that these super-heroes are deliberately endangering an entire city (and they're probably being a bit overconfident if they justify it by the attitude of "It's all right, we can rescue all the innocent bystanders because we're super-heroes") just to test a single person. If this scenario is indeed the case, and I was Terry, I definitely wouldn't want to join a "super-hero" organization that unleashes rampant destruction upon its own headquarters city.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 13, 2000 07:08:12 PM
IP: 216.87.46.8.dialup-stl.primary.net

*Lynati Enters, carrying an empty gallon container*
Fill it up, please. Chamomile. Don't be stingy with the honey, either...
*Takes a huge, steaming sip.*
ahh! (voice changes from raspy to it's normal way of sounding)

Aza-...err, Lain: from what I heard about sailor moon, they brought across (is it the "S" series? I'm not a big fan of the show; in fact, I outright hated the american version...but Our dorm has bad reception and I have a VCR, and the only person with tapes on my floor is all Japanese Version (subtitled) Sailor moon...Aparrantly, they made Haruka and Michiru "cousins" !
That's right! because, of course, what other explanation could there be to why two females are sharing the same apartment, taking extra steps to protect each other in battle, and otherwise being oh-so-close? Why, they MUST be family!
...incidently, i have a theory on the result of this little change...years from now, the little girls who always chose to play-act as Haruka or Michiru with their friends are going to discover the truth about the pair's relationship, and sue the company who edited the american version in order to pay their therapy bills. Or, you'll have psychotically homophobic parents suddenly discovering that their child is -albeit unknowingly- emulating and idolizing a non-Het character, and go berserk.
Personally, I think any company that would change the closing line of an episode from "I'm never going to let you go tonight" to "let's go out for ice cream!" needs to be sued. Imagine how the original writer must have felt, seeing the new version of that scene?

...Anywho.
There is sickness in my tonsils now...the d@%# cold didn't leave; it just went undercover.
Hence the need to carry around gallon jugs of hot tea.
I'm more or less caught up on my schoolwork, and my transcribing of my writing onto the computer is going alright.
...Yesterday was really slow, wasn't it? I lurked through a couple times, but didn't have anything new to say.
I think I'll just stay here a while. It's nice here.

*Lynati curls up by the fireplace, wings carefully folded away from the fire.*
Lynati
Monday, November 13, 2000 06:55:08 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Assumption 1: Somebody from Disney checks this room once a week.
Assumption 2: That person finds something they like in the RPs so they pitch an idea of a similiar character to the company.
Assumption 3: Disney decides to follow that person's recommendation.
What legal recourse does the creator of the character have?

To the assumed observer from Disney reading this post: if you steal any of my characters, you will suffer the consquences.

1+1=3

Everything is nice so far. Not much to reply to, but I will try.

Fire Storm - how did you hide your IP address? No comment why I would want to know.

Daphne - one thing I remember from my college years: it is easier for a Caucasian woman to get a scholarship than a Caucasian man.

Speaking of which, in my state, some Native Americans were suing because they were not part of a minority group scholarship. Time out here. Ok, suppose the powers-that-be award 1/2 of the normal scholarships to minorities. Those minorities are qualified for other scholarships, which some students can not appl for. Does not that defeat the purpose of minority scholarships? Are there more minority scholarships out there than scholarships for non-minorities?

1+2=6

That's all for now, folks.
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Monday, November 13, 2000 06:36:40 PM
IP: max1-31.cwy.cei.net

Gunjack> Thanks for the point, and satiating my ego. ;) I don't want to get too inflated, though, so make the rest of those responses good ones.

Btw, I missed this before, but tough break on losing an hour of responses. I've had that happen to me and I've just decided to walk away from posting at all, it's so infuriating.
Entity
Monday, November 13, 2000 06:14:43 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Entity><<Right, but the intention of the question was to get no snap answer. Which it hasn't. So, in my mind, I've scored a point, and I'm trying to collect. :)>> With pleasure. :) *tosses him the point* That doesn't mean the question's solved. But if for nothing else, you earn the point by reminding me to get my head out of my rear and actually *think*! :D
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 13, 2000 05:01:43 PM
IP: 209-223-253-4.ausa.net

Gunjack> You're not even finished responding to me, but I'm going to dive right in anyway. :)

<<<I'm not trying to prove God's existence; I'm just trying to answer your "Dark Room" question>>>

Right, but the intention of the question was to get no snap answer. Which it hasn't. So, in my mind, I've scored a point, and I'm trying to collect. :)

<<<then that leaves the second option.>>>

That it's good for us. But in what way? We can't say. So, we must simply believe that God knows and we don't. But that requires faith. And faith has been the object of this little proof.

<<<So in other words, you're saying that if an athiest looks at the evidence with a clear, open mind and remains unconvinced, then God has screwed him over?>>>

Correct.

<<<I believe there's enough evidence that athiesm is impossible to maintain without at least a touch of blind faith.>>>

If by blind faith you mean the conclusion that the basis of existence is chaos, and that order is merely an appearence, thereby making existence meaningless, and thus, Godless, sure. The above is basically my thoughts through Junior High when I was an athiest. Disclaimer: Does not necessarily represent views held by all athiests.

<<<Believe me, I'd love to believe this. I really would.>>>

Again, we run into this apparent contradiction between your feelings and Christianity. Is perhaps the reason you've embraced logic so much a result of these uncooperative feelings? (Feel free to smack me at any point.)

<<<Condemnation has nothing to do with Abraham, SALVATION does.>>>

Right, right. My error.

<<<This cannot be true, unless you say that God created Himself.>>>

Isn't that the current line of thought? If God did not create Himself, then he was "produced" in some fashion, by something else... the universe? existence? Either answer subjects God's existence to something beyond Himself.

But as for Hell, doesn't it say that He -did- in fact create it? There was no Hell before Lucifer's fall, was there?

<<<What more do you need to know?>>>

That this second-hand, nay, third-hand information is actually right.

<<<I agree with the first statement, but not the second.>>>

I expected that. I know that a lot can still be applied today, that though the specifcs have changed, the meanings behind them haven't, etc. But was the intention of the Bible contributers (I say contributers rather than writers because so much of the Bible seems to be a compilation of works not necessarily related to the construction of it) to create these timeless lessons or address the immediate issues at hand? A letter doesn't seem to be the best way to preserve wisdom for all generations.

<<<In my opinion, you can't have social order without religion.>>>

As much as I may wish to disagree with you, you may be right. There's no way of knowing. But I think humanity is moving out of old definitions of religion, and after another millenium, will be over them for the most part.

<<<What reason do we have to doubt what "evidence" we have?>>>

Prove to me that what we really have is "evidence" and then maybe we can take those training quotes off the word.

<<<But Christianity DOES claim to be revealed, so Greg's statement (and my reply) still stand.>>>

It doesn't preclude the possibility that Christianity, too, was invented, but that its inventors simply vieled it as revelation.

<<<It's like getting pissed at the law of Entropy>>>

Which I do, so there you go. ;)

<<<But what's the point of pride when faced with eternal damnation?>>>

Well, surely nothing if you don't put it to use. Would you live a lie? Benefit at someone else's expense? Accept comfort in exchange for freedom? Unless you're incredibly lazy, no, you wouldn't. These are all cliches of the things that mankind does not stand. That human nature will not tolerate. How is obeying a God who is unfair any different? Resistence of any kind is better than following along. Maybe God will come to look at things differently as a result of such resistence, but we'd never know short of trying.

In any case, I can't help but ask: How much of your responses are you making up as you go along to humor me, and how much is actually taken from your own rationalizing?
Entity
Monday, November 13, 2000 04:50:48 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

Well, I didn't mean to post yet, but at least I didn't get caught in the middle of a sentence... And now I can go play CS and TFC. The rest'll come later.
Gunjack Valentine
Monday, November 13, 2000 03:08:41 PM
IP: 209-223-253-133.ausa.net

*Valentine drags himself out from under his desk with a moan*

Some people can effortlessly cross between sleep and waking, leaping up in the morning to greet a new day. Unfortunately, I'm not some people. I get the coolest dreams this side of a crack pipe, but waking up is like landing a 747 backwards on one wheel. ;P

I was going to post last night, but I gave up after DC erased an hour of responces to Entity... *tosses an angry wolverine into DC's lap* ...So know I've got to write it all over again. Life's a b!tch, and then she turns immortal. ;)

On to replies...

Winterwolf><<Hmm... Actually I believe the tentacles came from Wilek first. They just get around! ;D>> ...Uh, you don't know about the *REAL* tentacles, do you? Trust me, Wilek didn't create them...

-Religion Stuff-

Entity><<The convenient loophole here is, of course, that we can never possible guess as to an omniscient being's intentions.>> But since I claim that he TOLD us his general intentions, we can at least try to narrow down the possibilities... <<So, we can never qualify or disqualify its existence based on such a route.>> I agree, but I'm not trying to prove God's existence; I'm just trying to answer your "Dark Room" question by examining all the possibilities...
<<(But incidentally, assuming God did exist, it would have to be option C, as you say.)>> So if God chooses to remain silent, is it because silence benefits him, or us, or just because he doesn't feel like talking? I can't see how revelation could have any negative effect on God, so I'm assuming the first answer is wrong. Also, the idea of God remaining silent "just because" doesn't seem to fit, given the stakes. Unless there's a fourth option I've missed (and "because he's a sadistic bugger" doesn't count), then that leaves the second option.
<<It's not impossible for a belief to change, but it is impossible to change a belief.>> Good distinction. So in other words, you're saying that if an athiest looks at the evidence with a clear, open mind and remains unconvinced, then God has screwed him over? In the hypothetical, I'd agree. However, I believe there's enough evidence that athiesm is impossible to maintain without at least a touch of blind faith.
<<How about this one, courtesy of my Junior religion teacher? Just because there is a Hell doesn't mean there are people in it.>> Believe me, I'd love to believe this. I really would. Unfortunately, the bible says, flat out, that people are going to Hell, and there's no indication that Hell is anything but permanent.
<<When it comes down to it, whether by direct action or indirect action, God is sentencing souls to an eternity (take a minute and contemplate that word, eternity) of suffering...>> True. Unpleasent, but true. <<...based on a code of law we had no part in agreeing to.>> False. Condemnation has nothing to do with Abraham, SALVATION does. Condemnation was the result of a conflict between our actions and God's nature, and His covenant with Abraham was the first step toward redemption. The covanent isn't what threatens us with Hell, it's the basic conflict.
<<According to what he's told us, standing by and letting something bad happen is a sin.>> This statement hinges on the assumption that He CHOOSES whether or not people suffer Hell. I'll get to this in a moment. <<Furthermore, he created Hell.>> This cannot be true, unless you say that God created Himself. <<Furthermore upon that, he doesn't clearly tell us about Hell.>> Hell is eternal seperation from the Creator, earned by maintaining a conflict between a creature's actions and God's nature. What more do you need to know?
<<I'd say God's nature is for God to decide.>> Interesting. :) I totally disagree, but let's explore this option anyway. Assuming that God can change his nature at will, which of the traits in question would you have him reject: Justice or Holiness?
See the problem? :)
<<(Tell me the letters of Paul, and half the other stuff in there, wasn't directly applicable for the place and the time, and only really valuable today for history?)>> I agree with the first statement, but not the second. The issues that Paul and the others write about are, with VERY few exceptions, addressed to theological problems and questions that still crop up today; and as long as the questions appear, I'll continue to defer to them. <<Scare tactics.>> So God is lying? Why would he do that? <<Simple rules for a simple people.>> In which case it should be easy to state exactly HOW the rules and people are simple.
<<If you -could- make them think that, what would you have to lose by doing so?>> Your Justice and Holiness, assuming that it IS God speaking... But ignoring the allegation that God would lie, this stretches optimism a bit far. What reason do we have to doubt what "evidence" we have?
<<Don't you think social order is just as valuable?>> Actually, I do. In my opinion, you can't have social order without religion. <<Look at the Eastern religions. They were primarily founded by thinkers who sought to find structure and meaning in the world they lived in. Buddhism, for instance, is blatently credited as having been invented, not "revealed.">> I've never heard of this... Thanks! :) ...But Christianity DOES claim to be revealed, so Greg's statement (and my reply) still stand.
<<Not necessarily. Why can't Truth be a mere force, an element? It's the same thing I find unappealing about personifying Time or Fate.>> A *VERY* interesting option, and one that I've never considered. Lemme think about it for a day or so... :)




<<That's the same question citizens oppressed under a dictatorship ask themselves.>> But under a dictatorship, you can strike back, and in some pretty spectacular ways. My standard answer to a human dictator is "Drop a building on him".
But with a God, there's nothing to fight against, and nothing even to see. It's like getting pissed at the law of Entropy... o_O <<Sure, God is a bit of a bigger thing to tackle with...>> The understatement of the century... ;) <<but I see two options: (a) God really isn't God, therefore by definition (or rather lack thereof) he should be capable of being overcome.>> Possibly true. <<(b) God is God, in which case it comes down to a matter of pride; die on your feet or live on your knees thing.>> But what's the point of pride when faced with eternal damnation?

Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 13, 2000 03:06:18 PM
IP: 209-223-253-133.ausa.net

Fire Storm: Well... I figure that I'd probably need to get the power supply unit in Norway (the current system in Norway differing from the American, pun intended), but... if you were to send the pieces (mainly the necessary cards, HDs etc.) separately, for me to assemble into a case here, well... *ponder* y'know, the idea does sound like it might work... :) (The taxation might be a bit, but still... if I get the cards as donations, well... *dang*)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, November 13, 2000 02:53:02 PM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

Warpmind: Well, a while ago there was a discussion on how to get you a better computer. The best way that was discussed was donating parts for you and making you a computer out of the parts (which, quite frankly, would be easy).
My other thought is what if we used the guise of a "contest" for this donated computer and you were the only participant.

Bonnieway, how hard would it be for you to get it back in the country, aside from shipping costs? You mentioned that your country had some policy about computer hardware before, and I was wondering how that would affect it.
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Monday, November 13, 2000 02:43:17 PM
IP: pppa41-resaledetroit1-5r1021.saturn.bbn.com

*Warpmind peeks in.*

Fire Storm: Depends entirely on the technology. Please specify a bit?
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, November 13, 2000 02:38:06 PM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

Warpmind: <add to that the fact that my 486 has yet to be replaced>
Speaking of which... how is import laws of you country on technology that was a prize or a gift? Curious if you know.
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Monday, November 13, 2000 02:25:43 PM
IP: pppa41-resaledetroit1-5r1021.saturn.bbn.com

*Warpmind enters, his left arm bandaged in a sling.*
Grmf... got into a bad situation today... I mumbled something at work, and one of the other guys there thought I insulted him... Nice, hard-working Albanian chap, with the cool temper of an average Dinobot. *Sigh* He drew a knife on me, and gave my left arm a couple of shallow slashes (the doctor later told me the cuts were so clean, it's unlikely they'll even scar...) of the kind that are generally considered "defense cuts", meaning I used that arm to shield myself. After that... well, frankly, I'm not sure what happened, but HE had the knife, I was unarmed, and I sustained no further injuries... he wound up with two broken teeth, a sprained elbow, a dislocated knee and a fractured rib... I think I went into some sort of berserker fit, but... :| Hope something like that won't happen again... (I want to be aware of the situation when I mutilate someone, y'know?) Oh, well, the doc assured me that the arm would be back to 100% in a couple of weeks, unlike my unfortunate assailant... :)

On to more cheerful matters.

Gunjack Valentine: No need to fear, amigo - Dreamlands objects or creatures have a VERY limited lifespan in the Waking World; they rarely manage to stay for more than a day...

Gside: My man, getting cable internet would be a waste of money ANYWAY before I know whether this is a place I'll reside in for long - First, the building would have to be hooked up, THEN I'd have to pay for the installation, THEN for the subscription... add to that the fact that my 486 has yet to be replaced, well... :( By the way, a boon I'd like to ask - could you try to find and post the Worms theme? The mp3? I'm sure Wilek and Gunjack would love to hear it... ]:)

Welcome back, Mecord. You've been missed. At least somewhat. ;)

Winterwolf: No worry - I got myself some of those nifty breating gears - y'know, those white masks that cover schnoz and mouth? :)

Greetings, Cat. Always good to see fresh vic... bl... posters. Yeah, that's the word. Posters. ];)

Lynati: Huh? There *IS* a dance at G'01? Hmmm... but... I WAS merely joking... :| But hey, sorry about that coat... :(

Hiya, Cherry Blossom. We meet again. ]:)

Traveler: My, you're gutsy, aren't you? Daring to break into my library? Tsk, this must be dealt with... 'Sides, I just can't allow any thefts from my armory. It's a union thing. ];)

**RP**
Warpmind was explaining something about the encyclopedic wing of the library when alarms rang out throughout the building.
"What the... the armory? Someone..."
Skidding around the corner, he sped toward the source of the alarm, opening the great doors to the armory.
"ALL RIGHT! WHO DARES TO ENTER THE REALMSFARER ARMORY?"
Traveler and CC slowly faced the door.
"Um..."
"Huh? You guys? I thought I TOLD you this place was off-limits. Shame, now get out of there."
"But..."
"No buts. Get out of there. There aren't any guns there, anyway, just medieval weaponry. *Prohibited* medieval weaponry. Come along, now..."
Sulking, Traveler and CC stomped out, looking around.
"So, Warpster, what is this place, anyway?"
"My library. Listen, it was kinda convenient you two showed up... there's a duel coming up between two... visitors I have here, and... well... I think it might be a good idea for them to have seconds."
Traveler quirked a brow.
"Who?"
At that moment, SJ, Kari and Sammael peered around the corner.
**RP END**
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, November 13, 2000 12:48:01 PM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

Cherry> Hello. I'm the token sane guy here just in case you wanted to know that. Firestorm> The whole thing is a test to see if Terry will do the right thing even though it seems Superman has gone bad. Bruce is on it too. Gotta see if the kid if League material you know. Daphne> Nope sorry. Caliope> I missed you (hugged) *s*
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Monday, November 13, 2000 11:22:01 AM
IP: h2odam.sdccd.cc.ca.us

OK! Guess who's back!!! Common guys!!! Guess!!!....*notices her name at the bottom of her post*....never mind! :P

I'm back! So common guys, just HOW much did ya miss me?! HOW much?! :P

So how was DC?
Is was great! I think I went to almost all the museums and I saw lots and lots of art, and I didnt get to see too many monuments cuz of the stupid tour bus ppl who left us hanging and didnt come pick us up at the hotel *pouts* but besides that and the fact that I didnt get to got eat african food, the trip was great!
Mindless observation, aka piontless ramble:
#1 I find it so funny just how exotic ppl (especialy guys I guess) think I am when I'm in the states! Its just so much fun! Sometimes I wish I had an interesting accent of some kind to liven up the deal! ;P
#2 I cannot belive just how codependent some ppl are! I mean, I know I'm pretty independent but compared to the girls I had to drag around the last 4 days...geez! They would rather walk throgh museums they were compleatly uninterested in then take the metro by themselves! Gawd, and I thought I could be shy at times! Not anymore tho! I'm Super Girl!!!! *poses* :P

Well, I should get going, can anyone tell me where I can get the CR from the week before so I can catch up on my messeges? Thanx very much! ^_^

Well, Bye-ee!!! *runs around and HUGZ all then runs back out*
Caliope
Monday, November 13, 2000 09:53:26 AM
IP: 136.145.83.185

**************BEGIN RP!!!*******************
Narrator: "Totally ignoring everything else in the RP currently going on, >;P we return to the... ahem... library of Warpmind de InzanE."
*A large black tome in one of the more shadowy corners of the archives begins to thrash about wildly, seemingly of is own volition.... until it suddenly flies off the shelf, dropping to the floor below. A powerful wind from an unknown source wells up just long enough to flip the pages of the book in rapid succession 'til it stops abruptly at a page that could only be described as a hole in reality.*
Narrator: "Ooooo.. very Sam Raimi-ish..."
*One armored/clawed hand reaches up from inside the book... then another... and Traveler *POPS* the rest of the way out, landing unceremoniously on the floor.*
Traveler: *Uhhhh...* "Damn Necronomicon copies...."
*A female voice yelling from inside the book* "Hey what about me?!??!?!"
Traveler: "Ooops. Hehehehee.... Gimmie a sec..."
*Reaches down and pulls up a raptor mutate dressed BDU's and light armor, CC*
CC: "It's about freaking' time you got us out of there! I warned you boss; I said not to shoot those spitballs at that guy who looked like a wizard while we were at Milliways... Especially since the birthday cake the chef's were bringing him said "Happy Birthday Merlin" on it... But NO...."
Traveler: "Hey, it's not my fault just about everybody these days seems to be carrying around a copy of my original...."
CC: "Remember just before the Dark Ages?"
Traveler: *nervous laugh* "Touché'." *Picks up the book, closes it carefully and stuffs it inside his duster.* "Now where in the name of the number 42 have we ended up?"
********************END RP*******************

Ahhh.. the Irony (I love irony)... the last few decades with everybody whining that their vote doesn't count.... Being nutty I could say this was all rigged to restore faith in "The System", but then again being paranoid is simply knowing all of the facts. Which I don't. I just know more than most. >=)) That's a good quote.. too bad I can't remember where it's from... *snickers* Well... I KINDA/SORTA/WANTED to post AFTER the election was over so I could gloat or b!tch about the result. In either case I would have made omissions/accusations of conspiracy type stuff being involved in the electoral process... >=)) However now it seems to be a bit of a moot point.... *glares in the general direction of Daley and whispers to himself* Like father, like son....

*zones out for a moment* "'Til the blood on your sword is the blood of a king... 'Til the blood on your hands is the blood of a king..." *smacks himself on the side of the head* *grunbles* Freakin' song lyrics stuck in my head...

ANY-way.... I'm surprised I haven't heard a peep about THIS little piece of recent info... The knowledge of which I speak is of course the fact that Transformers: The Movie is now available on DVD.... *steps out of the path of the doorway*

And what about that whole Playstation2 debacle? I couldn't have executed it better myself.... Of course the Irony (with a capital *I*) in THAT whole situation is if Sony could have shipped any more units they would have. Oh... I still think that it all might be a clever ploy by them... I mean what company would decide to switch chip fabrication plants (new process... moving the size of the die down to .25microns from .35 or somewhere in that range... this reduces cost since you can now get more chips per wafer o' silicon = cheaper for everyone! (And more electrically efficient but we won't get into that...)) in the few months between the Japan release and the U.S. release.... by SHUTTING DOWN ONE FACTORY, THEN STARTING UP THE NEW ONE; Only to have problems with the new fab. plant?!?!??! So they have to switch back to the old one... ergo, lack of one VERY important part. Now since Sony is actually producing these processors themselves, boldly blundering where few companies have dared to blunder before; namely Intel a.k.a. Chipzilla, AMD, Texas Instruments, Motorola.... you have to forgive them a little. Then again, since I haven't heard of any high profile executives being fired, having an "accident", or otherwise have been assassinated by the Yakuza in a traditional sword attack.... One can't help but to be a tiny-tensie-weensie-bit suspicious.

Or, you could have pre-ordered six months in advance (on a whim no less >:)) walked in the store at about 1:00pm on Oct. 26th and walked out less than 10 minutes later with precious cargo in hand and spent the next few days in hysterics at the riots and pornographic amounts of money people were willing to pay for them on ebay. *twisted rictus grin * Thank you Sony, *sheds a tear* you've provided me with so much entertainment already.... and I haven't even opened the box yet. I'm waiting for the xmas rush... parents are willing to pay so much for their child's love. Like my car insurance and enough to get another PS2 once they become available.... * insane maniacal laughter* And if the price point doesn't rise to an adequate amount; well I never had a PS1 to begin with sooooo... hehehhe *Sniff* I think Warren Buffet would be proud. And Green Baron is probably smiling ear to ear as he reads this wanting to pat my head and say "Good little capitalist! You're a good little capitalist aren't you? Yes you are! Yes you are!"

*looks above and studies what he just wrote for a moment* Hmmm.. well it's not the election of the prez, but it would seem at least I got to somewhat gloat about something this post....

Sevarius Jr.- No XENOGEARS 2 for the PS2?!?!? (Note: Make that gloat about two things.) Well what the hell was the point of even considering getting a PS2 then!??!?!? And YOU'RE upset the carpetbagger was elected in NY? Heh... try having to live in the State. I keep asking my buddies when plan B is so be set in motion...
And you brought up the re-vote movement happening in Florida... Which CAN NOT be allowed because of one point that everybody is FAILING to mention. If they do allow a revote, EVERYBODY who voted for Nader (whom is still probably walking funny from the sweet lovin' you gave him prematurely election night, I'm telling you, lay off the ginger ale man, we're all worried about you. >:)) will vote for Gore. Why? Because they KNOW for a fact that if even a quarter of them vote for GORE the 2nd time around, he'll win. HOW in the name of all that is sweet and good in Odin's beard can THAT be fair to the voting citizens of this country? Let alone the institution (imperfect as it may be) of out electoral process? Dammit, I'm doing like Nader said next election. I'll vote my conscious. I'll vote Darth Vader.

A live action Scooby Doo? With HIM as Fred? NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then again if they got Pauly Shore really coke-ed up... he might make a pretty good Scooby....

Oh and have you heard the initial reviews about Sega's new RPG? Shenmue? This one comes straight from the keyboard of "Tycho Brahe" from www.pennyarcade.com (funny stuff, give it a try; I promise it's only almost as addicting as crack. Okay, maybe a tad more than crack.):
"A small note about Shenmue... Wow."
For more info, go to http://dreamcast.ign.com/reviews/14499.html
Interesting article too... it mentions that this three disc game is only the first chapter of a planned 16. Gee... and from what I've heard of the first chapter, that alone is one of if not the best RPG type game they've ever played.... (Note: make that three things.)

Coyote the Bando- Ouch. Heal fast.

*******************Semi-Spoilers*************************
Blue Submarine No.6- I missed most of this... but caught more than enough to make me want to see it again. Dr. Zorndyke seems like he walked the line of genius/madness until his family was killed, then he didn't step off the line, the line just ceased to exist. Now that's my kind of crazy. Then there was the "Shark Dude". Especially the "Shark Dude". "Burn them! Burn them ALL!!!!" You go Shark Dude, you go...
I missed the 1 of 4 parts, and saw some of the 2nd, most of the 3rd and all of the 4th. I get the impression that the Shark Dude's character was carefully built up as a blood thirsty monster bent on causing as much pain and destruction possible to the humans the entire story. Then at the very end, makes it back to... well the colony would best describe it... spots his dead "papa's" body and breaks down and cries/acts like a child. "You promised you'd teach me new words when I came back! Wake up! Please wake up papa!" HEheheHEhehe... Gee I wonder if there's a meaning or two in there....
************************END Spoliers***********************

Robby- Speaking of Slayers... I've been downloading eps all weekend... Funny stuff so far... Have you seen the music video someone made with clips from... I think it was the Slayers Movie, mixed with a tune from TMBG? Heh... that reminds me of the music video someone mixed using Trigun and a certain Metallica cover...

*********************Semi- Spoilers************************
The Once and Future King: Arthur's going to get snagged next ep.... heheheh... One heck of a twist out of the blue with Morgana and Nigel... Didn't see that one coming until Mary was on the phone with her father and he mentioned that he was having a diner guest... My mind immediately spit out the whacked out idea that it would be Morgana. That's why I was so surprised... I was right! *funny men in white coats put a straight jacket on Traveler* Ohh.. warm... Hmmm.. I wonder what happened to everyone's favorite purveyor o' chaos, Morrigan?
And who wants to take bets that Agent Braddock rides with Arthur if/when they catch him and are transporting him? AND ends up an unavoidable witness to the weirdness?
********************END Spoilers***********************

Wilek- << By the time I finish this post, Halloween will probably be long since over...ah well, it's always Halloween in my freaky little brain anyhow.>> My sentiments exactly... >:)) And speaking of Cthulhu, you DO know that there's a company working on a PC game using... I think the Unreal engine... based on big green himself and the Lovecraftian universe...? << Unless your kitchen's bears also drive T-80s and shoot at cockroaches.>> Those must be some damn big cockroaches.... have a flame-thrower.


Doug & Kit- Kids today, eh? So who's planning the stag party? *nudge, nudge-wink, wink Doug...* hehhehehe...

Fire Storm- <<Ya know... Greg is back at Disney and he can't tell us what he is working on. Who thinks that Greg may be working on Gargoyles or one of it's spin-off's>> Which is exactly why we SHOULD NOT EVER bring it up since the Neigh-Omnipotent Mouse more likely than not has people regularly keeping track of this room. If any real info were to seemingly pop up in here pertaining to what Mr. Weisman may actually be doing, that could throw a huge monkey wrench into negotiations/planning/Inter-corporate politics whatever... Did I mention that it would have to be a gamma-ray exposed monkey akin to the hulk throwing the wrench due to it's size and weight? >:P

Star Wars- And if you want to read a VERY interesting theory on just how George Lucas might be in the process of pulling the biggest fast one on the world since the Devil convinced the world that he didn't exist.... click on my name/link below.
BUT, be warned... for if the theory pans out, the next two Star Wars movies will be almost TOTALY ruined for you. The choice is yours.

I'm merely playing devil's advocate. Which I seem to scooby-doobie-doobidy-doo so well.... *evil laughter*

*********************Begin RP!!!***********************
*CC looks around the room, spots a door the size of one the Panama Canal locks to their backs... and what it's labeled*
CC: *worried, whispering to herself* "please don't let him turn around. p-l-e-a-s-e don't let him turn around...."
Traveler: *Inspecting some of the other tomes on the shelves* Hmmm... something tells me I should look behind me.
CC: "Oh no."
Traveler: *Turns around. Sees the doors. Reads the inscription. Eyes well-up and go wide with joy.... and we're talking ANIME wide here...*
"JOY."
CC: NO!... Come on... you already have an entire pocket dimension full of this stuff! You don't need any more!! And we should REALLY get back to the ship... hell knows if the thing is still where we parked it...
Traveler: *hits the access console to open the massive pair of doors, then grabs CC by the arm and pulls her forward into the hallway beyond as the doors begin to close behind them and the theme to The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly plays as the camera fades out.*
"Uh-uh-ah! There's always time for browsing! Ohhh.... see I don't have one of those, quick, scan it and I'll pop us back to the ship! I promise!"
CC: *sighs* Great, just what you need. Actually, I could use one my self.... these Gun....*As the doors finish closing, we see that they're labeled.... ARMOURY.*

*******************END RP**********************************

Hmmm... I seem to be slowly getting back up to my old usual posting lengths...

Traveler - [durandal45@juno.com]
Monday, November 13, 2000 07:11:00 AM
IP: proxy.buf.adelphia.net

sorry for my approximately gazillianth post today (the room has been slow.. someone's gotta keep it going ;))
But.. before I forget, I should ask if anyone knows what Sailor Moon (S??) was doing on YTV this Saturday, with Sailor Uranus and Neputne and the whole bit.. I was surfing and lo, there was Sailor Uranus (who just happens to be my fav..) Why did I never hear about this before??????? Has anyone else heard about it??
lain
Monday, November 13, 2000 02:36:13 AM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

YAHOO!!!! That was sooooo cool!! ha ha ha ha ha ha!!
(overtired hyperness.. sorry..)
This is great thanks, Firestorm :):):)

And yes, I watched SE Lain and loved it. And what would beating Azrael over the head with a stick accomplish? I have a much cooler handle now, anyways ;) Which, by the way is "lain" or "lain?" but if you call me "lain?" I might be more likely to respond with, "yes, Navi?".. Azrael can be the texan angel all he wants, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest :)
... I am lain of the wired..
..and I need some sleep...
Thanks a bunch, you guys :):)
lain
Somewhere in the Wired..
Monday, November 13, 2000 02:31:10 AM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

Firestorm>> lessee now..
lain?/Azarah
Monday, November 13, 2000 02:25:10 AM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

Well, I may be claimed by homework/labwork again this week, but it may not be too bad.

Shadowrider> <<I firgot to send you the mp3 as well>>: I wasn't expecting you to. Heck I didn't even send you an email while you were away, and here everyone was writing snail mail. But I got it, and it is quite nice (if you didn't get the reply). I'll probably put it up sometime (of course, I have no idea when).

Fire Storm> <<Or just the fact that people have been making fun of Canada for so long now>>: I say it's because they have a national morpheme.
<<I knew you would choose that MP3>>: Either you are psychic, or you know that you just have to bring up a special occasion and I will look for an mp3 that matches it.
<<Only one vial?>>: Well, if it's large enough, you can split it among smaller vials for a more strageic strike.
<<Then the next year, all computer crimes are allowed for the next 365 days>>: Nah, just outlaw the RIAA. I remember hearing that artist actually get most of their money from concerts as opposed to CD sales.

Random Endless Waltz thoughts: I found it interesting that they ended it on an actual waltz.

Lain> <<I am getting kind of upset with everyone beating on poor Mr Disconnect>>: But I believe he was created to be fully deserving of all that has been done to him. Rather like a moble stress reliever.

Lain> <<I have had problems with stalkage>>: Hopefully, that is in the past. Anyone know if there have been stalker probelms in here before? I don't think there were any in my term here.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gsidee@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Monday, November 13, 2000 01:57:06 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

*enters*

Hey everyone! If you've read my Ranma 1/2 fanfic series (and you've seen or read the original series) I would really really really appreciate it if you followed the link on my name to the catcafe.net messege board and tell me what you think of my series. I'd like to know what people think of it and if they would like to read more of it. :) My other name is Baherit. Thanks!

*GONE*
Mary Flanders
Sunday, November 12, 2000 11:30:21 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

Hi all. I've been busy writing college essays and sending out applications along with all the hell of school and work too. I hope everyone is doing alright and I miss you.
SOROW
Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:58:16 PM
IP: a020-0671.dll2.splitrock.net

lain?/Azarah> So, have you seen Serial Experiments Lain, or is this all just a bizare coincidence?

Do you want your name to appear as "lain?" - "lain" - or "Lain" ? I want to be sure to pronounce it properly if I should have cause to address you in the future. (particularly since I HAVE seel SE: Lain, and I wouldn't want her annoyed at me)

Would you like me to hit Azreal over the head with a stick a few times for making you change your name? It wouldn't be any trouble. :)

Anime musings> I just finished watching session 6 of Cowboy Bebop. ... wow. I'm going to miss it. (Well, I have all six DVDs so I can watch it again, but I'm going to miss having new episodes to watch. The series ended with Session 6. For you Bebop fans who might not know, the last two episodes are "the real folk blues" parts 1 and 2. Very intense. In fact, the entire last session was awesome.

Oh well, that's enough for now. Talk to ya'll later.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:53:07 PM
IP: 198.215.20.202

>>X-FILES SPOILERS AHEAD>>

Another good ep tonight. Kinda freaked me out when they showed that brief glimpse of Skinner lying in the airshaft. They wouldn't kill off big bald Skinner, would they? Whew! It'll be interesting to see how Doggett and Scully coexist now that their stuck with each other. I kindof enjoyed seeing Doggett get the crap scared out of him this time considering how he's been treating Scully.

>>END X-FILES SPOILERS>>

Night everybody!
Infinity
Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:31:23 PM
IP: 208.171.156.136

Yep! It worked! This is my normal IP address... give or take. It is dynamic, just like yours.
Fire Storm
Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:05:22 PM
IP: pppa10-resaledetroit1-5r1021.saturn.bbn.com

lain?/Azarah: <tell me how to disguise my IP address>
Well, Wilek likes Space Proxy and it was diffucult for me to find out where he lives.

I tried it here, and let's see if it works (It may not due to how I access the internet.)
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:03:47 PM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

[daphne walks in with empty pockets]
hey, does anyone know of good finacial aid or scholarships for a Caucasian female from a middle-class nuclear (both parents living together) family? the female is bright with a high GPA, high class ranking, and high SAT scores. And very poor typing skills.

Happiness!
Daphne, apprentice-wordsmith
Sunday, November 12, 2000 08:48:03 PM
IP: dialup-209.246.210.125.philadelphia1.level3.net

FireStorm:

Ya know... Greg is back at Disney and he can't tell us what he is working on. Who thinks that Greg may be working on Gargoyles or one of it's spin-off's?

From your lips to God's ears
Shinigami
Sunday, November 12, 2000 08:35:07 PM
IP: spider-mtc-tc034.proxy.aol.com

**dusts self off after having been sucked in and out of various portals**
Phew!! I wonder what THAT was all about...

**finds a small coin on the CR room floor**
Hey guys, lucky money!! Who wants it ?? ;)

Anyway, I was wondering if and smart computer people in here could tell me how to disguise my IP address, so people don't know where I live every time I post anywhere or access ICQ or stuff. I have had problems with stalkage..
Thanks..
Love,
lain?/Azarah - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 12, 2000 06:25:02 PM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

?
Anonymous
Sunday, November 12, 2000 05:57:11 PM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

checking again..
lain?/Azarah
Sunday, November 12, 2000 05:56:08 PM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

just trying to check something.. sorry!

lain?/Azarah
Sunday, November 12, 2000 02:58:12 PM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

DC violence - Actually, I have planned one day to portray DC in a positive manner, while DC does what he normally does.

**CURRENT SITUATION**
For now, once again, the computer room door is UNLOCKED. Yesterday, it took a lot of self-control NOT to give him the key back while he was chocking me. If I miss 2 days in a row, it is a pretty safe bet that my dad and I had another squabble.
**END CURRENT SITUATION**

lain/Azarah - I know what you are feeling because people still confuse/have confused Daniel Johnson and I even though I only use initials now.

Fire Storm - Where did Greg say he was back working for Disney?

**DPH opens a portal and sucks lain/Azarah out of the way so he can get to DC. A couple of portals open and DC and DPH disappear. Through the portals, noises [sounding like a unimaginably extremely severe thunderstorm] are heard. DC, looking extremely bad, teleports into the room. Seconds later, a portal sucks DC out of the room. Meanwhile the noises are continued. lain/Arazah is brought back into the room. Moments later, DPH deposits a container the size of a dime in the room. DPH says, "Inside the container are the remains of DC. Don't ask how I got the contents into such a small container. That was for inspiring my dad to lock me out of the computer room."**

**BFTS RP continues**
DPH & company stop at a pizza place [Winterwolf, insert name here] to pick up the pizzas. DPH walks inside.

Jason says, "It is kinda cool that DPH created a spell to give the car an automatic pilot."
**END BFTS RP for now**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Sunday, November 12, 2000 02:29:48 PM
IP: max1-13.cwy.cei.net

Todd > thanks for the answer about Nightcrawler; I figured it was most likely something along those lines but for all I knew he could have inherited a little shapeshifting from Mum ; )

Christine
Sunday, November 12, 2000 01:54:35 PM
IP: 14-095.009.popsite.net

****Enters****

Two things for the moment..
First, I know everyone will roll their eyes at this but.. I am going to change my posting name... AGAIN.. This is because very near the time when I changed my name last, Azrael began posting, and then there was Azrael and Azarah and people were a (and still are) getting us mixed up. So I decided to do the diplomatic thing and compromise. I will post for a while with my new name and old one, just to avoid confusion, and I will hopefully never have to change again..

Now for the second item of business: You know, I am getting kind of upset with everyone beating on poor Mr Disconnect.. don't you people know that violence never solves anything??? He just wants attention, you know, and you're all giving him exactly what he wants.. and so as long as you keep giving him what he wants, he'll keep messing with your computers..
Maybe we should try a different method.. ignore him when he does wrong, but praise him every time he DOESN'T disconnect your computer.. Suzuki teacher training taught me this is called "positive reinforcement".
So.. I would like to make this a violence-free zone. I will take responsibility for the actions of DC, so if you have any further problems, feel free to take them up with me, as I now assign myself the position of DC's guardian..
;)
that is all..
Love
lain?/Azarah
Somewhere in the Great White North
Sunday, November 12, 2000 01:14:43 PM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Time to go for me...another weekend gone. Oh, well...I don't know when I'll be home again, until then take care of yourself, everyone!

Kit:> Nice to see you, my friend...I was hoping you to show before I left. A pity we have no time to talk more.
Still no email? Weird, indeed...as I said, Emambu got it. Oh, well...

See you all!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Sunday, November 12, 2000 12:32:06 PM
IP: h255-20-158.mi2.albacom.net

Shadowrider: Still no e-mail. :( Good to see you again, though! :)
Kit
Sunday, November 12, 2000 11:06:48 AM
IP: pool-63.52.129.239.dlls.grid.net

***Endless Waltz Review***

I watched my tape last night, and I have to say, Robby's forewarnings on this were true. Sure, the animation and the music was as good as or better than the series, the characters were all there, there was the philosophizing between laser blasts that made GW so memorable... but it all seemed so unnecessary.

This story didn't need to be told. We all know that peace needs to be maintained, and that's why the last episode of the series didn't end with a black screen and a "They Lived Happily Ever After." We understood that: (A) Relena was now the new Vice Foreign Minister. (B) The Gundam pilots, and possibly Zechs, were still out there. These two things said: they'll be there if they're ever needed again. Seeing them needed again wound up being an excuse to do so. I had three major qualms with the OVA:

1) The plot was a rehash of the series, just in a compressed form. Wufei's the rebel who's the last to be gotten through to, Trowa's the guy with the iffy existence who pretends to be a bad guy, Duo's caught and thrown into prison, Heero shoots the deciding blast(s) from Wing Zero as it breaks apart... They even have the little girl repenting just like they did with Dorothy, and to a lesser extent, Lady Un.

2) The "liberties" taken were completely unacceptable! The Gundams are all revamped for no reason. They even show them that way in the flashback at the beginning! And where'd Zechs get that new Tallguesse?

3) All of the Operation Meteor background was so muddled I almost had to just give up on it. What was the point of that Barton Foundation? Were communications allowed between the colonies or weren't they? Why was the operation changed so that it became an entirely new operation? What were Heero and Trowa doing in those flashbacks to their pre-earth battles?

All in all, the OVA failed to live up to its nifty title.

***End Review***
Entity
Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:29:41 AM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

<FS enters the CR with two 50m tall robot's on his side>
"<EAT'S-ONLY-HEADS>, <SPEPSIS>, that's DC. HE destroyed my phone line so some other house was anwsering my phone. <HURT//MAIM//KILL>!"
<The chain-gun's whir up and the plasma cannons start to charge when DC pleads and begs for his life>
"WAIT! If you slag me, you won't get DSL Thursday!" DC yells at the top of his voice. FS raises his hand to stop the two cybrids from destrying DC.
"Very well." FS then points to another member of the DC family, Otto Motive. FS smiles.
"You know what to do. <ACKNOWLEDGE//SUBMIT!>"
<As the Cybrids make a very not nice looking mess of Otto, FS walks over to DC and whispers to him>
"That was for having my starter die for the second time in a month. Imagine how mad I will be if I don't get DSL for the second time."

I hate Ameritech.

Ya know... Greg is back at Disney and he can't tell us what he is working on. Who thinks that Greg may be working on Gargoyles or one of it's spin-off's?

Doug//KIT: <We're RPing in the Mall of America>
Ahh... I was just curious.
And no, I have never been there.

Gside: <And I don't know why, but Canada in general just seems funny.>
Two languages? Lot's of beer?
Or just the fact that people have been making fun of Canada for so long now?
<Thank you for making my decision easy>
I knew you would choose that MP3!

SJ: <Can you imagine that? NBC having Trek in its lineup?>
Bet we see the Friends gang on 'Trek then!
<Where are you Scooby Doo? Hopefully not in an erotic fan fiction, that's where>
ROFL!
So... will Xander be Shaggy? Or scooby? :)

<>BATMAN BEYOND SPOILERS!<>

Superman's back! And he is *BAD!*... MAYBE... I think it could be the Hawk man.
And we saw another possible love interest for Terry. Aquagirl.
WHERE'S LOIS?!?

<>END BATMAN BAYOND!<>

Gunjack: <Controversy is fun, as long as you stay logical>
You see! We can't even have an illogical conversation in here! :)

Niamhgold: <16 hour days? ** Hands him a huge vial of nitroglycerin** Have at it, friend!>
Aww... Only one vial? :)

Reverend Attila: <let's start funds so Gside and Daniel Johnson an purchase their own politcial offices in New Jersey>
Then they can declare it Gargoyles year! Then the next year, all computer crimes are allowed for the next 365 days! :)

AAron: <Well, I almost got rear-ended by Al Gore's motorcade, so I guess that makes us even>
I guess so. At least none of the canidates were majorly campaining in your state! Every day or so there was a motorcade that blocked off the freeways. AND THEY DID THIS AT RUSH HOUR!
I am SO lucky I didn't get caught behind one of those!

Patrick Toman: <Federal law states that if the work hours your employer requires you to work on election day overlap the times the polls are open, they must give you two hours off at some time during the day to allow you to go vote. They cannot keep you from the polls by making you work the entire day.>
...From the "sounds good in theory" school of reasoning.
At least I was able to vote. It was a slow day. I got off at *5*! That's only a 9.5 hour day. Just like normal...
I hate my job.

<>WARNING! JOB RANT!<>

I'll try to keep this civil...

If a boss says that you are going to get a $4 dollar an hour raise, but you find out that they didn't, what do you do?
I was told that I *had* the raise already, but I found out that they didn't give it to me. Now, they are trying to keep me from leaving, and that was one of the big sticking points.
BUT, it's not like it would have kept me there anyway. :)

<>END RANT!<>

Wilek: <Huh? What's to enjoy about a catfight?>
Hmm... it's just the whole thing about women actively competeing. The tearing of colothes... :)
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:20:59 AM
IP: pppa8-resaledetroit3-2r7229.saturn.bbn.com

<Shadowrider enters>

ArchWolf:> So, you're working on yout fics? Great! I remember you mentioned me about it, some time before I left. I can't wait to read it...about mine ones, I'm working on two stories (there's a third one too, but it is not really a story...just an interlude). I think I'll have them ready somewhere next year.

Niamhgold:> Got your mail and replied! Thank you for sending it, especially for the picture.

Gside:> Gack! I firgot to send you the mp3 as well! Sorry, it slipped away from my mind. I'll try to remedy imediately.

Niamhgold, Winterwolf, Doug & Kit:> I resent the mai for the third time...it is weird anyway, since Emambu received it both the times...

Valentine:> Great to know you're having some fun these months! :) <<It is a pity. I've brushed up on my logic a bit since the last time we danced... :) >> Agh! An opportunity for a good discussion, and I can't attend...life is cruel sometimes...
An Hawk? Well, maybe...I think there are two or three that we will not use...we can see it...anyway, I must ask the Sergeant before. Naturally, you have already a proper ramp, an illumination radar and a control center, isn't it? ;)
Oh, thank you for the quote. Appropriate, in some way...;)

Later



Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Sunday, November 12, 2000 06:46:33 AM
IP: h213-18-68.mi2.albacom.net

Don't you hate it when you accidentally close the window with your half completed post?

David G.> << you left part out>>: Yup. I was wondering why it didn't come to a conclusion, but I'm pretty sure I copied everything.

Robby> <<flashbacks that don't really explain anything>>: I've heard of separate "episode 0"s for eah pilot. Know anything of this?
<<The redesigned Gundams, despite playing a small role, all looked quite cool>>: Given, but they appeared to have always been the redesigned versions, even those that were redesigned mid series (Deathscythe and Shenlong).
<<The "real" version of Operation Meteor">>: Hadn't that already been done?

Doug> <<That thing about the bones was an exgaggeration>>: Thought so, but I can see from whence it came.

Gunjack> <<All I want is a good action flick>>: Boo yaka. Though there seemed to be a few similarities.
<<When do you think they'll crack molecular computing?>>: When we need it. They will proably come up with other ways to speed up in the meantime. All those spinning disks are rather inefficient, what with seek times and all.
<<Kidneys, plural. Don't ask>>: Ah, though I don't think it's a good idea to put waste filtration next to the processor. Bad enough it's piped through a recreational area.
<<Thanks for the Exothermic Proof, by the way>>: You are quite welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.
<<How long has this thing been around?>>: Not a clue. I don't even have a PSX.
<<I wouldn't think it would matter>>: If there is enough matter to cause the big crush, then there would be no place for radiated energy to go.
<<I knew it complete, When I wore a younger man's clothes...>>: La lalala, lalalaa, lala lalala lalala, la la la.

Green Baron> <<Personally, I don't think souls are subject to the laws of science>>: It is a humorous story, and the question asked to apply science to a theological place.

Gunjack> <<Sluggy Freelance's penetrating analysis of the issues behind our (endlessly) ongoing election>>: I liked the kielbasa bit. Actually, I like kielbasa.

Welcome back Archwolf, Mecord, and Shadowrider (especially Mecord, as he has been gone longer).

Fire Storm> Thank you for making my decision easy.

Gunjack> <<Itr's all your fault, Gside! ...well, your's and Micheal Poe's, at any rate>>: Tang and Clay (authors of Tang's Weekly Comic and T. A. Vision, and THL) are just as bad as Poe (especially Clay). And when they get together, it gets worse (oh, the salmon sushi and canadian shorts...).

Shadowrider> <<confirm you received it (it is supposed to be a ZIPped MP3 file>>: What? Nothing for the mp3 king?

Welcome Cat.

Gunjack> <<But this is a SANE talking cat!>>: Just wait.

Archwolf> Good luck with the team.

Niamhgold> <<I'm being talked about in the 3rd person>>: If you were here more often, that would probably be avoided.
<<me and Christine ended up by Rutgers (Camden)>>: I pity you. Camden is supposedly one of the (five?) poorest cities in the U.S. That, and the peripheral Rutgers campi don't quite count. Let me know if you ever come by New Brunswick.
<<I like to keep people guessing>>: An admirable ambition.
<<as for coming up to NH to see me...haven't been there in several months>>: Likewise. Though I usually keep to the center west. Odd that my home in Jersey in almost the exact center east, and I stay in New Hampshire almost flipped along the NS axis (relatively).
<<I betcha Gside was just kidding with me>>: Mostly, though I would like to see what quite a few people look like in here. Probably one reason I look through all those Gathering albums.

Because of the anniversary, the new mp3 is The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot.

Na zdorov'ya.
gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Sunday, November 12, 2000 04:03:55 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

Hey everyone :) Just thought I'd post a little something and make sure everyone knew I was still alive. :)

My carpal tunnel is killing me, I can't even take freaking notes in class now..I hate living in Ohio and I'm thinking about ODing on my Ibuprofen, and seeing if it can do any permanent damage.

Lexy< Call me sometime! I'm going insane!

Oh yes! and now Hudson is taking over GFW and he banned me from s8. *rolls her eyes*

Anyways, I better get my butt into bed. *Waves and disappears*
cherry blossom
Sunday, November 12, 2000 01:53:35 AM
IP: stpa-ras1-2-cs-13.dial.bright.net

Hey everyone :) Just thought I'd post a little something and make sure everyone knew I was still alive. :)

My carpal tunnel is killing me, I can't even take freaking notes in class now..I hate living in Ohio and I'm thinking about ODing on my Ibuprofen, and seeing if it can do any permanent damage.

Lexy< Call me sometime! I'm going insane!

Oh yes! and now Hudson is taking over GFW and he banned me from s8. *rolls her eyes*

Anyways, I better get my butt into bed. *Waves and disappears*
cherry blossom
Sunday, November 12, 2000 01:53:13 AM
IP: stpa-ras1-2-cs-13.dial.bright.net

** Niamhgold enters **

Hmm, looks like a bunch is going on here, guys! And I'm being talked about in the 3rd person, too! Lets see about the replies, since I've been talking with Serge about the election and I'm too drained to discuss it any more :P

Shadowrider: Hiya! Checked my e-mail box, but got none. However, I did send _you_ one, and it has a pic attached. Hopefully you'll receive it! :D

Gside: Hey, the bus I took to Philly today got lost going to South Street (yes, I know, how in the blazes could he do that?) and me and Christine ended up by Rutgers (Camden). It was interesting to see the place! <Pic> As it is, I have no good pictures right now. Besides, I like to keep people guessing ;) And, as for coming up to NH to see me...haven't been there in several months 'cause I'm at college and very far away ;)

Winterwolf: ** Hugs ** Thanks for the defense on my part! I betcha Gside was just kidding with me, though, but I do have to protest at the compliments you give me! Inner beauty? Hmmm, I dont' know, I look inside and just see...well, me! It's gotten to a point where I just don't attach faces to anyone in the CR (whether I've seen their faces or not) and they just become language-based entities. It's really neat this way...at least, until I can get to a GAthering! <cold> Thanks for the wishes, I've been over it for a couple days. Now, I'm afraid, my roomie's got it, and not to mention both Serge and Thryn. :C I feel bad.

GB: Right now, our Congressman is Sununu. But, the most controversial politics in the state right now concerns the gubernational election, with everyone afraid to elect Jean Shaheen as governor again because she's talking about erecting a sales, property, and state tax in NH. Talk about change! It's tough enough here, where I have to pay tax, but I don't want to fly home and pay it, too! ;D

Doug: <grades> Eich, grades. The problem with art school is you don't know how you're doing at all until midterms, where the teacher suddenly reveals to you that she knows _all_ the work you've done, and that she's graded it all, even on those days when you hung up your piece for fice seconds and no one said whose was whose. But, the good thing is at midterms I was doing well (A in Elements of Visual Thinking, B+ in Art Matters (very difficult course, Marxism crap and stuff...), A in Drawing (which made me happy because the teacher said she never gives A's), and A in Sculptural Forms). I have no idea how I'm doing in my Voices in Writing or Critical Inquiry classes, though.

Kit: Thanks for the guy advice. Problem is, I can't decide who actually loves me, and I'm not sure if I'm ready for _love_ right now. But I would like Serge's companionship without having to see his girlfriend hang out with him when she comes for a visit. She's a very cold person, never says hi to anyone, and decided not to like me even before it was revealed how much time me and Sergio hang around together. I tried to be good friends with her, but the fact that she's so ditsy has almost undermined my sense of confidence in Sergio...why did he say he likes to be with me because I'm intelligent and conversational and upbeat, but he continues to go out with Aubrey because (a) she looks like Audrey Hepburn and (b) they make a good-looking couple? I don't know, I guess I'm confused, so for the time being I've been giving myself some space from him. Haven't talked to him since Tuesday :D/:C

Hmmm, I think that may be all for now!
Adios!

Niamhgold
Sunday, November 12, 2000 01:15:08 AM
IP: 206.41.204.68

Shadowrider: No e-mail from you in our box, sorry. Please resend it soon, if you can.

Mecord: Great story, explains a lot. Thanks for sending it. Welcome back to the CR too.
Doug
Sunday, November 12, 2000 12:52:30 AM
IP: pool-63.52.171.149.dlls.grid.net

*Lynati reads thelast two days posts while she waits for the top ten screaming to subside*

That's right! This is me, posting on a saturday after 5p.m.!
...this is thanks to my friend Lauren, who is letting me use her computer. Isn't that nice of her?

Anyway...
Oh! I promised to wear my Happy Coat.
### Warning: Random Happiness Moment ###
*Lynati briefly vanishes through the Hanging Cloth gate, then re-appears wearing her happy coat. It is a trench coat, vinyl, stamped in a pattern to resemble small snake scales.
It is dark purple, with an almost metallic sheen to it. The matching belt is tied in place at the belt loops as not to be lost. *
I love this coat! it makes me happy! Happy!
...I got it at a thrift store for $16, and it started raining later that day. the lining zips out, so I can use it as just a raincoat in warmer weather. In the winter is is very warm.
It also claims to be a size 8...But it fits me perfectly!
(...As a female someone who is not a size 8, this makes me very happy. Blame it on society...)
Then there is the effect when I walk wearing this coat, which is the coat breezing open and making me feel like a female version of Duncan Mcleod. Also, I get people commenting that I look like I'm from the movie "The Matrix"...(The fact that my prescription glasses have a heavy grey tint also adds to this effect.) ahhh!
*Lynati grimaces suddenly*
...But yesterday, there was an accident. Actually, it was deliberate. The coat, being second hand, is getting old.
How to explain what happened? Hmmm.
Well, you know how I keep commenting on my stories, and how they fill up my every waking moment? Here is your proof exactly how inwardly focused I get on them.
My foundations class is doing a sillouette-type project.
Foundations is presently dark, and I am tired, so I lay down to wait for my turn in front of the projector and start working on a scene in my mind. I am vaguely aware that at some point, someone in the class says "That's mean! you shouldn't do that to a sleeping person!" As I was not the only one in the class almost zzz-ing at this point, and I hadn't felt anything untoward going on, I wasn't sure they were refering to me. I thought maybe someone had draped their oversized brown paper outline on me, but a breif glance and a testing with my hand proved this not to be the case...So I figured something had been done to one of my classmates who had actually fallen asleep. And went back to the movie in my head.
...About fifteen minutes later, i tried to shift position and couldn't...as I had been strapped to the ground with DUCT TAPE in at least FIVE PLACES!!!!
I hadn't been asleep; I was just so intent on what was happening in my own little world that I failed to notice someone duct-taping me to the floor in the real one.
...When I went to pull the tape off of my coat, a bunch of the vinyl scalies came with it. :( :*( :*(* * * >Sniff<
Like I said, it IS an old coat...and one of the few things that, just for existing, brings me happiness.
(And Bandaids would only make the damage worse...)
### End Random Happy/Unhappiness ###

Gside: Thank you...That does help, actually.

Warpmind: Wha-? that actually IS going to be a dance at G'01?
I thought you were just being amusing.
Incompotent dancing...Hey, maybe we could start a new trend!

Gunjack: <The "Quote">
Thank You. *Takes a bow*
It's "from" my Foundations Class. several days BEFORE the duct tape incident, I was given..(growls out word) "Inspiration". (and I only write when inspired.)
Most of my writing ends up in poem form -usually in a properly rhyming format of some kind- but this...piece...I liked just how it came out, and left it alone.
AND-was that you I was supposed asking the "Dust in the Wind" thing to? I'm pretty sure it was; it's still bothering me.

*gasps* The "Hell Being Exo/Endothermic" arguement! that was the other reference I got!

I'm going to read stuff at Christine's sight now. I'll lurk by later, though.

*Lynati exits through the curtains, carrying her coat and patting it comfortingly.
(...I think my snake being in another time zone is having more of an affect on me than I realized...) *
Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]
Kansas City, MO
Sunday, November 12, 2000 12:17:23 AM
IP: 208.12.249.253

*Archwolf Storms is looking for DC* That is absolutly IT! This is the THIRD TIME I have had to type this damn post! It's bad enough that the sh*t hit the fan in a matter of some importance to me, but now you make me retype time after time. You even ate my save! DIE!! *A pack of spectral Direwolves float through the CR walls and solidify enought to rip DC limb from bloody limb.*

Well. Enough of That

I was all set to have a food fight today...and it got canceled.

Cat> Hey cat. It's good to get to welcome you here. I would attack you with the Sanity Sucker (TM) but I know for a fact you have no sanity to spare. Oh, be careful of Reverend Atilla. He makes even you look completely sane.

ShadowRider>I'm glad things are going well and that you have time to continue working on your fics. As for me, I have gotten around to writing my first fic, and should have it done sometime in the next year. I hope. Really. On top of that, I am tryng to work through a few personal issues, but I think I'm comming out on top of that one.

WinterWolf><<Hey have you locked away poor ShadowWolf again? >>Nope. He's just been too busy getting me into trouble to post. That jerk nearly got me Black Balled form the Fraterinty I am pledging. He needs to learn when to play the game, and when to let the game be played around him without getting himself involved.

Life>Ok, today has not been the best of days. One of my highschool fencers has IMed me to tell me that the team is falling apart, due to the head coach apparently going crazy. Now, this is not something most people would feel too bad abut. However, this team means a lot to me. It hurt a lot when the head coach retired me this year. Now, to see the team I helped build dying....It causes me a lot of grief. Now I have to sit back and watch the team fall apart and hop that there is something left to save when I am finally able to try to talk to the head coach and put things back togther.

Politics>Ok This is just bad. First, those morons in Palm Beach want to re-vote because they were either too lazy, or not educated well enough to read their ballots, but now, in retaliation, some nuts in California want to launch a revote their to counter the one in florida. My God, they should ALL be shot. Repeatedly. Just count the friggin votes and call Bush the winnder. Or Gore. Which ever it turns out to be. I don't care anymore. They could put Straum THurman in charge, and I just wouldn't care.

and now....
for something completely different
***RP HERE***

A small pub in Belfast

A silver haired woman sat at a table in a back corner of the pub, with a large wolf lying on the floor at her feet. The barkeep didn't normally allow pets in his pub, but for this woman he was willing to make an exception, Well, for the wolf, mostly. The Barkeep just didn't feel like having his throat ripped out at the moment. The woman, named Winter if the Barkeep remembered correctly, just sat at her table, nursing a bottle of Jameson.
The bell over the door rung quietly, causing the Barkeep to look up to see who had just entered his pub. It appeared to be a middle aged man, whose strait brown hair was just strted to fade to gray at the temples. His eyes were a striking shade of blue that appeared almost gray. The man moved silently to stand by the young woman and her wolf. "Winter, what are you doing here? You have a job to do."
The silver haired woman just stared at the table. "I've lost him Pat. I can't find his trail. Even Warfrost doesn't have a clue where to begin now." A low whine came from the huge direwolf, as if confirming what had just been said.
"Winter, I don't understand. You are the best hunter our Caern has. I've never seen you like this, even when you have momentarily lost a scent. What is wrong?" He reached down and turned the woman's head so he could look down into her eyes. They were filled with confusion and pain. After a moment, he sat opposite her and leaned in close enough that the Barkeep could not hear their whispered conversation. "Winter, what is it?"
Winter looked away, though not before Pat could see the tears starting to form in the corners of her eyes. "Pat, I don't like that I have only one course of action." Her compaion opened his mouth to say something but she cut him off. "We can't simply over write him this time. The whole time we thoght ShadowWolf was sleeping, he was growing stronger."
"Well, then you kill him as planned." He thought he saw her shoulders start to shake. "Winter-Blade, you still are not telling me everything. Why does this particular case bother you?" Still nothing. He reached out to put a hand on her shoulder and turn her to face him. Her eyes were red and tears were beginning to fall freely. What he saw in them caused him to blink in shock "Wait...you can't be serious! You know it is against the Litany!"
Winter shook her head angrily. "You think I can tell my heart to live by the rules?"
Now Pat was growing angry. "Look, either you get started after him, or I will have the Elders dispatch a hunter pack who won't care that ShadowWOlf used to be Archwolf. All they will see is a werewolf who has been twisted to serve evil, and who serves one individual who could cause us all a great deal of trouble. Now, what will you do?"
Winter looked at Pat for a moment and sighed. "Fine just let me.." She started to reach for the bottle, but it was snatched from her by Pat.
"No, you go now or you don't go." With that, he stood and left the pub, taking the whiskey with him. Winter-Blade looked down and WarFrost. "Well, friend, looks like we're back in the game. Let's go." She stood and left the pub, the smokey direwolf following close behind. Had she turned when she left the pub, she would have seen two misty shades watching her departure.

***End RP***

And now dear friends, good night
Shade and Sweet Water
Archwolf - [archwolf@collegeclub.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:49:56 PM
IP: viking202-88.dhcp.csuohio.edu

Hey! That means I'm tenth! :D
Gunjack Valentine
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:39:59 PM
IP: 209-223-253-98.ausa.net

Whoa.... I thought the wipe was tomorrow...

Then fall in lads, behind the drum
With colors blazing like the sun
Along the road, so come what may,
Over the hills and far away...
-Sharpe
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:39:07 PM
IP: 209-223-253-98.ausa.net

Actaully Gasper you're number 9. This post doesn't count.
Anonymous
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:35:48 PM
IP: 206.15.120.97

I'm 11th. I get a prize....right?

Gasper
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:33:33 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

***pokes her head back in***

Aw Infinity! We can be Fifth *together*! <huggles> ^_^
Dreamie
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:29:39 PM
IP: spider-wa051.proxy.aol.com

Ack! Sorry Dreamie! You called it first.
Anonymous
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:22:45 PM
IP: 208.171.156.88

luck seven!!!!
Mary Flanders
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:22:42 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

SIXTH!!!!
I MADE THE TOP TEN YAHOOOO!!!!!!
Broken Angel Azarah
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:20:15 PM
IP: dynrez216-32155.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

>>walks in carrying a big sign that says...

FIFTH! WOOO!!!

>>walks back out
Infinity
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:16:01 PM
IP: 208.171.156.88

BTW - Tope is the Dope Top ten... Man I'm really reaching to cover up that typo! ;) LOL
Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:12:28 PM
IP: 206.15.120.97

***bounces into the CR***

Fifth!! :D

***bounces back out***
Dreamie
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:11:14 PM
IP: spider-wa051.proxy.aol.com

**Winterwolf does a little dance**

Woo Hoo! Tope ten! Number 4! That's right fourth! ^_^

**Winterwolf dances out of the room**

Winterwolf - [awinterwolf@excite.com]
Bronx, NY
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:09:23 PM
IP: 206.15.120.97

Top 10?
Wilek
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:08:31 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

*Lynati hurrying*
SECOND!
(I think)
Lynati
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:05:58 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Has the room wiped? If so, FIRST!!!! BWAH HA!!!!
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:05:05 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net