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This'll probably be my last Post here.
I realized, too late, I could've simply saved the entries myself. Ah well. Maybe if the weeks get archived I'll check them out again.
Doug, Kitiania, I got your latest response and I'll reply sometime. GARGOYLES isn't top priority for me, but its nice to know I have at least two people willing to be friends here. :)
Two random comments:
David G., in regards to your comment on Role-Playing Games, if you said the discussion was over... I think you might've said that, I'm not sure... Fine.
To whoever mentioned Nigel not knowing Arthur was Arthur Pennington... He did. That's been quite clearly mentioned in the story.
And finally, one last review...
***THE GARGOYLES SAGA: PENDRAGON Spoilers***
THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING, PART I was excellent. I loved the emotional spectrum and the depth given to the characterization, and the psychoanalysis of Arthur was nice... Even if it was most likely inaccurate on multiple counts. I'm really not in the spirit of making an extensive review here, so I'll address some things that worried me later on.
That is, in THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING, PART II.
It wasn't as good as Part One for multiple reasons... The faceoff with Braddock was done too quickly, for instance, and there were possibly more places where the characterization could've been better, but all this pale to the ruination achieved by the scene with Merlin and Morgana when Morgana disguised herself as Mary.
First of all, there was no confirmation Mary loved Merlin before this scene anyway, so Merlin being hit so hard seems rather out-of-character. There was only a possible hint Merlin might have 'something more' in his feelings towards Mary.
Secondly, the relationship between Merlin and Mary wasn't given that much depth. For Merlin to get involved with someone so soon after the Corbie mess calls for a lot more in-depth characterization than given. There's no reasons given as to *why* Merlin cares for Mary. Mary was handled more in-depth. We were told that she'd started to like Merlin in the Caledonian Forest, and given what happened to her there we don't *need* any reasons to explain why she started to like Merlin. Merlin doesn't even get a 'when' that could explain a 'why', so we're forced to guess as to why he's developing feelings towards a girl.
My guess... He saw something of what he'd gone through in the situation she was in and identified with her and thus, because there was someone like him, desired to be close to that person.
In GARGOYLES we get to see Goliath and Elisa's relationship develop. We get to see their bonds develop and grow stronger...
"...But you've got to trust somebody in this world..."
"But still, its always nice to know that there's somebody who cares."
"Then I will protect you, and you will protect me, and together, we will protect this city."
...And possibly other significant aspects I don't remember/could recall. With Arthur and Elaine and Jennifer we've had depth. With Corbie, we saw her relationship develop with Merlin.
Yet with Merlin and Mary, what do we get? Practically nothing, if not nothing, on Merlin's side. Mary was handled okay, but she wasn't the one who went through the emotional trauma. Because Merlin's feelings for Mary weren't addressed well, this is another reason his emotional trauma seems out-of-character.
Finally, we get to the writing in one particular paragraph. It cut corners where there could've been better flow and/or more description and what it did describe was barely sufficient to get a grasp on what Merlin was supposedly feeling.

"She raised her hand, magical energy crackling about it. Merlin merely stood there, making no attempt to run. What good would it do? She’d only follow him - and furthermore, after what he had just learned, he hardly felt like living any more. 'It’ll be over soon, Merlin. Maybe it’s better this way.'"

Why, after what Merlin had just learned, did he hardly feel like living anymore? There's no indication of how much Mary meant to Merlin to make him feel this bad. If there had been such indication beforehand then this paragraph wouldn't have been so bad. Save for one other portion.
Good grief, that 'she'd only follow' sounds rather cheesy. She'd follow, yes, but who said Merlin couldn't escape?
Even now, this opportunity could've been taken to explain Merlin's feelings for Mary, but it wasn't.
And just to show how much potential I think was missed, here's an unofficial 'edited' version of the above.

"She raised her hand, magical energy crackling about it. Merlin merely stood there, making no attempt to run. What good would it do? Why bother? After what he had just learned, he hardly felt like living anymore.
"Was this his fate? To live a life without end, cursed to be betrayed by everyone he ever grew to love outside of friendship? Why? Because of what he'd done to Igraine? Because of his parentage? He'd learned to deal with outliving those he befriended, but deep down maybe he'd always been hoping that if he could just, for once, experience that one extra special type of warmth during one life or another it would make everything worth it. Now, though, it seemed even this was to be denied him forever as well. And if love was to forever be denied him, at that moment Merlin no longer wanted to find a reason to go on anymore.
"'It’ll be over soon, Merlin. Maybe it’s better this way.'"

The mess-ups with Merlin's relationship with Mary are worrying me that THE GARGOYLES SAGA is going to start pairing off all their characters. That in itself, if done too quickly, can be rather damaging to a tale, but if done shallowly GARGOYLES becomes what it wasn't when Greg Weisman produces it. It ceased to be the well-done story it was, elevated above that shallow stories that often seem to frequent television, and becomes one of them.
And I don't want to see that happen.
So as not to end things with a negative note:
Interesting Morgana/Demona reciprocal parallel. Demona, the more ruthless one, is the one who has a 'daughter figure' who is trying to heal her (Angela). Morgana, the by far less ruthless one, has a 'daughter figure' who is, at least for now, more upset with her.
Interesting, possibly, using that line from Angela in THE GOLIATH CHRONICLES...
"Save it for your next performance!!"
***End THE GARGOYLES SAGA: PENDRAGON Spoilers***

Paul

"If you've been through pain and harship, its easier to be kind to others. Being kind isn't a weakness, you know."-Ryoji Kaji
NEON GENESIS EVANGELION:
THE 4TH CHILD
Paul Allen Nathans - [LacanPanother@worldnet.att.net]
Saturday, December 2, 2000 11:26:28 PM
IP: 172.morristown-16-17rs.nj.dial-access.att.net

I know Hockey, but that just a plain given. John Candy has been gone for so long that people sometimes forget about him. The world would have had so much more laughter in it if he had kept himself in better cardiovasculair condition. That's why you have to perform at least one hour of arobics twice a week and drink plenty of water.
Tim
Saturday, December 2, 2000 11:05:26 PM
IP: wsc0051.wsc.edu

And hockey, Tim ... don't forget hockey!
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, December 2, 2000 10:42:41 PM
IP: 216.28.101.3

[Reads Coyote the Bando's post, starts to laugh hysterically.]

Of course it was joke. I really don't have anything against Canada. They've givin America many wonderful things such as the Kids in The Hall, John Candy (God Bless his soul), And of course Brigett Bako a.k.a. "Angela" of Gargoyles fame.
Tim
Saturday, December 2, 2000 10:32:06 PM
IP: wsc0051.wsc.edu

**runs in quickly after reading Tim P's post**

All Canadians and transplanted Canadians reading the room: PLEASE do not come down very harsh on the poor boy. I doubt he meant anything by that horrid joke at the end of his post.
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, December 2, 2000 10:21:23 PM
IP: 216.28.101.3

SJ> Looks like you're going to have some competition because I plan to become supreme leader of all those who reside within the universe. Those who don't like it can voice their opinions down the barrel of my arm-mounted fusion cannon ;)

Christine> Great work on the new Avalon Mists issue. And "Bad Girls" sounds great also. I hope Demona will appear in it. Also I look forward to your next erotic fic.

XenaTrek> Happy birthday.

Evil Debate> I do not believe that evil exists. All there is are different but equaly valid world views, one just happens to be in power in our society, and except for a few problems, I like it just the way it is. But things will be better once I rule all humanity.

Also I found an "Are You Evil" test on the net. Click on my name to get there. My score was "Kinda evil".
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Saturday, December 2, 2000 10:20:43 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

Hi guys! Recently, I have been doing some research at the Library and on the internet for a paper on stage directors guilds. Didn’t find a whole lot on what I was looking for, but it gave me the opportunity to catch up in the news. Check out this article from the The Washington Post, November 10, 2000:

Faced with a cliffhanger election, the Democratic Party directed a telemarketing firm on Election Night to begin calling thousands of voters in Palm Beach, Fla., to raise questions about a disputed ballot and urge them to contact local election officials.

The Democratic National Committee paid Texas-based TeleQuest to make the calls Tuesday night---while polls were still open---alerting voters in the heavily Democratic
enclave in Florida of possible confusion with the ballots they cast.

"Some voters have encountered a problem today with punch card ballots in Palm Beach County,'' the script for the call said. ``These voters have said that they believe that they accidentally punched the wrong hole for the incorrect candidate."

"If you have already voted and think you may have punched the wrong hole for the incorrect candidate, you should return to the polls and request that the election officials write down your name so that this problem can be fixed,'' the script said.

If voters were about to go to the polls, the script called for the caller to instruct them to "be sure to punch Number 5 for Gore-Lieberman" and "do not punch any other number as you might end up voting for someone else by mistake.''...
``I think those kinds of calls make perfect sense,'' Nelson said. ``In terms of people getting riled up, it would be a tactic that might energize voters who might otherwise not have realized they may have mistakenly voted for the wrong candidate."

[shudders] Here’s some more strange-but-horribly-true stories I found at the library and the Web.
Be afraid... be very afriad.

In Florida, the family of a Dutch tourist who was slain after she stopped to ask directions in the high-crime Liberty City neighborhood near Miami was awarded $5.2 million by a jury who determined that Alamo Rent-A-Car should have warned her about driving through the
neighborhood, even though she rented her car in Tampa, halfway acrossthe state.

A woman in Sydney, Australia, was awarded $15,600 as a result of her lawsuit against the women's health center at which she was employed as a masseuse. She alleged the center failed to provide her with training as a counselor or otherwise helped her cope with the stress of listening to her clients talk about all their problems. This is I don’t go into psychology.

By a slim margin, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that a 7-year-old girl,suffering from spina bifida and believing a prenatal test may have led to her abortion, may not sue her parents for "wrongful life."

Gore supporters spend a whole year calling
George Bush stupid. ---> *

* <--- Then they accidentally
vote for Pat Buchanan.
God is just.---> *

Politically Incorrect Joke of The Day: Whats the difference between a Canadian & a yogart? -If you leave a yogart alone long enough it will grow a culture.
Tim P.
Saturday, December 2, 2000 10:14:56 PM
IP: wsc0051.wsc.edu

SJ> ohman, dude - you have my vote! =) I'll even start having them withhold campaign deductions from my paycheck... yeah.. 10% of my pay will go to the SJ for Dic...umm Prez campaign *nodnodnod* United Way, go suck an egg - my buckeroos are for SJ :) Let's see...10% of my pay and I teach... that gives you about $9.00 a month - did I mention that I'm quitting in January? So, I guess that will only be $9 for your campaign.. where do I send the check? ;D
"Tired of Bush? Vote for a bigger Flush!" =) No? ok, ok... so I won't be your campaign slogan person ;)
Jannie
Saturday, December 2, 2000 09:47:01 PM
IP: 209-83-228-86.hou.port.mytelco.com

**enters quietly**

Yep, I have been busy. But I got the time now to do this for ya, XenaTrek ... WHEEL 'ER IN, BOYS!!

**moving crew enters with the obligatory Execution^TM cake**

Happy birthday, girl. **tosses her the remote** Pick yer flavor ... I'm not gonna risk picking the wrong one. ;) **birthday hugs**

**bows and waves to everyone else before skipping out**
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, December 2, 2000 09:36:34 PM
IP: 216.28.101.3

SJ> <<<"Why vote for the lesser of two evils?">>> That is an awesome campaign slogan. If only Nader had adopted that. ;)

Gunjack> <<<Sorry about that, but some people seem to believe this; or rather, this is the logical conclusion of their beliefs.>>> Well, to their credit, statistics DO show that more educated people are more law-abiding. But of course, if they're more educated, they're fine off not breaking the law. So one could say it's a matter of need rather than one of "knowing better." And if everyone were educated, the scales would simply tilt to make things relative.

<<<So what stuff does a Chekist need to be taught to make him "good"?>>> As much as they can learn. With good teachers to teach it.

<<<I'd draw a BIG line between "Education" and "Enlightenment". Education, to me, has always meant learning about the physical world, ie science, and history. "Enlightenment" is an understanding of what is actually Good in this life...>>> I think both are necessary. But since, when we speak of either, we're talking about the end that BOTH bring, I see them as siamese twins. You can be an open-minded person and gain a bunch of wisdom over a lifetime of experience, and that may make you "enlightened." But no matter how much you've come up with yourself, there's no way you could've thought of everything. There are millions of people who have come before you, and you need to learn their collective legacy. That's where education comes in.

<<<...Give in to your hate!>>> Hey, I just might.

Mandolin> <<<You're thinking of "I'm Sorry," by Aaron Ziegler, a fic that has, IMO, received more praise than any lone fanfic discussed on this board. It's earned it, too.>>> No doubt about it. I haven't read a lot of fanfic (especially not since TGS), but I've covered most of my bases, I think, except for Christine's fics, which I just never got to for some reason (and from what people say in these CR's, I can tell she is definitely a mention). But in any case, "I'm Sorry" is THE best fic in the archive. "Legacy" would be next in line, followed by "Absalom."

Entity
Saturday, December 2, 2000 09:22:42 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

**Delurks, half-awake after surviving helping with Christmas shopping.**

Gunjack> You're thinking of "I'm Sorry," by Aaron Ziegler, a fic that has, IMO, received more praise than any lone fanfic discussed on this board. It's earned it, too. :)

Now if everyone will excuse me, I'm going to go pass out again.

**Mandi fades out as she flops down on her bed with a happy thunk**
Mandolin
Saturday, December 2, 2000 09:00:19 PM
IP: 144.175.21.16

****Initiate Post***
Toast
Jam
Hash
Quote:Value - 3

At six o'clock
And it's time to rock
And me head is beating like a drum
In the cold daylight
I feel like sh!te
And I can't remember last night's fun
-Black 47, "Livin' in America"

...And that's what mornings are like. If I don't party the night before, why do I suffer the morning after? : P ...On the upside, I spent last night downloading Irish(?) rock and reading comics.

David G.><<In a similar situation, Demona would usually run away, then plot revenge against whoever killed the friend she abandoned.>> I agree, but I don't think it'd be pragmatism, not cowardice. Her survival instincts are based around her lonelyness; since she's spent so long as a loner, her protection instinct has turned inward. She's become a survivor rather than a gaurdian, and her actions just reflect the mentality.
<<She's obviously willing to put herself in danger, but she's not willing to sacrifice her life for what she believes in.>> I'd say rather that she has no beliefs strong enough to die for. It isn't a lack of commitment, it's a lack of ideals.
<<Also, she was always a bit vengeful. Even before she spent 1000 years as a fugitive. :)>> Heh. 8 ) ...But vengeful isn't evil...
<<Ever since I started writing fanfic, I've had to resist writing the story where some character of mine "redeems" Demona with his boundless love. That's too easy, even though I personlly want to do it. I think Demona has to earn her own redemption.>> There's a story somewhere in the archive in which Demona shattered the canister in St. Damien's instead of throwing it. She killed the whole world, but Puck transfered the link spell from MacBeth to Elisa, and she spent the next hundred years as the last hunter... Anyone ever read this? A perfect example of Redemption. Anyone know the name?

Todd Jensen><<1. Demona, instead of warning the other gargoyles about the Vikings, just runs away and hides on the beach.>> What would she have warned the Gargoyles about? That would have blown a plan that still looked like it would work...
<<2. When Goliath believes that she is dead, instead of revealing herself to him, she simply hides, too frightened and guilt-ridden to face him.>> Assuming she knew that there were survivors, how could she face them? Better to let them think her dead, and remember her as she was...

Azreal - Who was Kublai killing?

Wilek - Now THAT is what I call art... Think we can get a copy to hang over the CR fireplace?
By the way, I've got an idea kicking around that your project might be able to help me with. After you take over, might it be possible to merge Texas, Japan, Scotland, and Ireland into one country? Then we'd have everything good under one roof...

Gside><<And I thought that was part of the Nerus Project. To assemble such strange individuals as we.>> Which reminds me. How does one go about JOINING the Project? I'd certianly hate to be out in the cold when the fun starts... <<Thank you. I've always had a fondness for the mages.>> Just don't start designing logging machinery... <<Actually, I haven't yet decided on what the closest analogy is.>> They got two, we got two... *shudders* <<One candidate reminds me of an amusing storyling from Polymer City Chronicles (a webcomic).>> I used to read this, but I lost my link to it when they moved PvP. Oughta look it up sometime... ? <<Well, I was trying to excuse it to a cynic.>> Ah, that explains it...
<<Fun. And the strong would rise from the ashes, while the weak are blown away like the chaff they are.>> But you'd undermine the whole "Buxom" paradigm! O_O ...Wait, would that be a *bad* thing?
<<The moon king was actually Robin Williams, but he used the stage name Ray DiTutto.>> I thought that was him... So why'd he use a stage name? And my dad was telling me about "Time Bandits" today. I need to see that movie.
<<But you can remedy that, can you not?>> Possibly. Does it cost money? I've never really needed it, so I've never bothered... *shrugs*
<<We know the secrets of the fire swamp. We can live there happily for some time...>> ...So you wish to surrender to me? Very well then, I accept.
<> Sounds like fun! 8 ) <<Good plan. And I would most likely get more rest if I followed it.>> I don't get any more rest, but I need all the help I can get in the mornings... ; P
<<Well, I was referencing a line from the movies.>> The quote reminded me of all the arguements with Jeff over whether or not the NSA gets it's hands dirty... He keeps telling me about the two agents who showed up at his friend's house packing supressed revolvers(!) and asking questions.
I think he's on crack. If the story were true, they'd be using automatics...
<<This sounds more viable than most other virus warnings.>> Incidentaly, that was an internal memo for my dad's company, not an email chainletter. Probably shoulda mentioned that.
<<You forgot DBZ (slightly), paintball, Avalon, and blowing into milk.>> So THAT'S where they got the glowing blue people... And I didn't think anybody'd know about Avalon... : )
<<Fur and teeth, my friend. Fur and teeth.>> I spent TWO DAYS looking for that strip, and I couldn't find it! o_O

Shadowrider><> Pity. : ( <<a drama in which Jesus does not appear even for a moment, and everything is narrated from the viewpoint of some of those who met him.>> Cool! *Adds an entry to his reading list* ...And don't worry about the song. Napster's still up and running... ; ) <<I'll try to email to you yhe lyric, anyway, if you like. Tell me if you're interested.>> Definately! O_O <<Sorry, I'm not sure about the meaning of this...>> "Anarchists" (ie psycho vandalists) have been cropping up in Christine's area. *shrugs* ...seeing as their brand of Anarchy involvings breaking things and people, I'm considering volunteering for riot duty.
I got your "police brutality" RIGHT HERE!

Lain><<Try to think of some other really tasty controvercial topics to toss around so se can have more fun ;)>> Coolies!
<> Let's see here. Oh, and my comments are directed to the author, not to you. : )
<<Imagine that we read of an election occuring anywhere in the third world in which the self-declared winner...>> This guy slips in his first sentence. Bush isn't the "self-declared" winner, he's the legaly CERTIFIED winner... Unless you want to say that the legal cirtification wasn't actually legal, which hasn't been proved. <<...was the son of the former prime minister and that former prime minister was himself the former head of that nation's secret police(CIA).>> Are they still griping at the Christians In Action? This guy needs to quit watching James Bond movies... And the CIA ain't our secret police; that'd be the NSA.
<<Imagine that the self-declared winner...>> Note carefully how he repeats this mistake/error/LIE in every line. Ever heard the one about telling yourself something so often that you start to believe it? <<...lost the popular vote but won based on some old colonial holdover (electoral college) from the nation's pre-democracy past.>> The electoral college is laid down in the constitution, so how can it be "pre-democratic" or a "colonial holdover"? I just love informed opinions...
<<Imagine that the poorly drafted ballots of one district...>> ...That were aproved by a member of the opposing party, and are FRIGGIN' SIMPLE to read, and are used in multiple other areas without incident(?)...
<<Imagine that that members of that nation's most despised caste, fearing for their lives/livelihoods...>> And this would be who..? Maybe I'm just a blind idealist, but I wasn't aware that we HAD a "most despised caste"... And to anyone who thinks Bush is a threat to the lives and livelyhoods of "despised castes", I simply point to Waco and the Weavers.
<<Imagine that hundreds of members of that most-despised caste were intercepted on their way to the polls by state police operating under the authority of the self-declared winner's brother.>> I'm confused now. What the heck's he talking about? The polls closing?
<<Imagine that six million people voted in the disputed province and that the self-declared winner's 'lead' was only 327 votes.>> Musta written this before the hand count... And 327 votes, or even 100, or even 10, or even 1 vote, constitute a majority. That, my friend, is called DEMOCRACY. Any other questions?
<<Imagine that the self-declared winner and his political party opposed a more careful by-hand inspection and re-counting of the ballots in the disputed province...>> ...In which the opposing party would have the final authority over whether or not a ballot had been improperly cast. This, my friend, is what is known as a Conflict of Interest.
<<Imagine that the self-declared winner, himself a governor of a major province, had the worst human rights record of any province in his nation...>> Would someone please tell me WHAT THE *HECK* is this jackass talking about? Have I missed something, or is he just making this stuff up? <<...and actually led the nation in executions.>> And we're proud of it. Before you go condemning our unspeakable brutality, you might look into the history of prison riots and conditions here and in, say, New York. Pay special attention to the Attica riot and it's aftermath.
<<Imagine that a major campaign promise of the self-declared winner was to appoint like-minded human rights violators...>> Bull Puckeeeey... ; P
Oh. I get it. All this time, I was under the impression that he was commenting on the AMERICAN elections. But since his description bears NO RESEMBLENCE to *our* election, I must've misunderstood. What poor rathole is HE talking about?

Warpmind><<someone tried to argue the point that Scots have nothing under their kilt. Of course, the *correct* statement is that they *wear* nothing under their kilt.>> Ever heard "The Drunken Scotsman"? ; ) Regimental Forever!
<<As for what gave you away... just a general impression; nothing specific I can place my finger on.>> Heh.
<<and many, many other completely pointless items. :)>> Ever read the Grimtooth Traps series?
<<And yes, my name linked to my latest story. Take your time, and read the 27 other stories in the series first... ];)>> Twenty...Seven!? Wheeee! 8 )
<<However, do note that as a fellow sick person, I admire your effortlessness. ]:)>> He DOES seem to have achieved a level of Zen, doesn't he?

Entity><<Heh, sure, but THEY'D never go for that.>> But if we add deportation to the Clubouse Rules, they have no choice... : )
They didn't break the law because of a difference in opinion of how the clubhouse should be run, they just wanted to exploit an avenue. If the laws were different, they'd have nothing to exploit.
<<Well, you're drawing the line very thinly. One year less of college is not "ignorance." You're replying as if I'd said the rate of law-breaking is inversely proportional to the rate of education.>> Sorry about that, but some people seem to believe this; or rather, this is the logical conclusion of their beliefs.
<<I'm being much simpler than that: knowing stuff, good, not knowing stuff, bad.>> So what stuff does a Chekist need to be taught to make him "good"?
<<Yep.>> I'd draw a BIG line between "Education" and "Enlightenment". Education, to me, has always meant learning about the physical world, ie science, and history. "Enlightenment" is an understanding of what is actually Good in this life...
<<Man, too many posts. Didn't someone just comment on how the CR seems to have been slowing down? Humorous. :)>> Perhaps I spoke... prematurely. ; ) ...Still, it DID seem pretty slow earlier this week...
<<And now, they're screwing over this Batman video. I am on the verge of bombing WB.>> *switches to Emporer Palpatine voice* ...Give ibn to your hate!

Happy birthday, Xenatrek! And may the next be even better... : )

Lynati><<On the brighter side, the information on my zip disk may be salvageable...>> Good deal! <<*Lynati exits, trying to remember where her jar of Tiger Balm is.*>> Um, out of curiousity, what IS tiger balm?

Christine><<my crew of what? Pacifist Adultresses? ; )>> You have such a crew? ;D Though... *turns red* ...in deference to my remaining virtue, it might not be good to have THEM behind me either... o_O

Pacifist Adulteress: Is this what they call women whoget bored while their husbands are off to war? ; )

I knock down walls
With big iron balls
An' I mix cement by the ton
With me tongue hangin' out
For a bottle of Stout
Sweatin' bullets in the Brooklyn sun...
-Black 47, "Livin' in America"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
But the PS2 is Heah! WE are heah!
Saturday, December 2, 2000 08:41:10 PM
IP: 209-223-253-3.ausa.net

**Lady Corax jumps in for a quick post.**

Xenatrek> Howdy, there! Happy Birthday!!! Hope you have a great one. :)

SJ> Woo-hoo!! Heck, you've got my vote! Screw the "lesser of two evils!" Hee-hee...;)

It is pretty pathetic when Zimbabwe finds us funny. **goes off to drown her sorrows in peppermint tea and basketball**
Lady Corax
Saturday, December 2, 2000 07:47:06 PM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

DPH>> February second?
Daphne
Saturday, December 2, 2000 07:39:52 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.203.39.philadelphia1.level3.net

It is not really a weekend if you have to work Saturday and Sunday.

I let my guard down at work and chaos visited me for a brief moment of time.

Xenatrack - happy birthday. **A portal opens in the room and one hundred freshly baked homemade [non chocolate] cybercookies appear in the room as a birthday present for Xenatrack.**

I was washing Battlebots on Comedy Central and quickly realized I could design a single battlebot that could easily beat them all. Only 1 problem: it might cost a few arms and legs to build it.

**DPH scratches his head and wonders if the clue he gave about his birthday (the sum of the digits of the month and day equals the product of the digits of the month and day). He feels assured the clue is sufficient given how few days in the year meet this criteria.** 10 cybercookies for anyone who can count how many days in the year meet this criteria.

SJ - Sorry about we need to hear your opinions on certain issues like mutant and non human sentient being rights, rights to carry concealed nuclear weapons.

Wait a minute, I decided to run for dictat . . president of the unknown for 2002. That's right, I will keep you from knowing about things you do not or should not know about. Of course, that means I might became alll knowing, but that is a risk I am willing to take.
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Saturday, December 2, 2000 07:27:28 PM
IP: max1-45.cwy.cei.net

<<From a newspaper in Zimbabwe.) >>

SEE?!!! Even the backwater countries are laughing at us. You think I like my country being made fun of by Zimbabwe? That country doesn't have a pot to piss in. They aren't fit to wash the jockstrap of America, and they laugh at us.

If I was king, I would nuke them for that. When you get made fun of by the 3rd world toilet nations, you should be embarassed. As usual, I blame the liberals for this.

In fact, I'm announcing now that I am gearing up for my campaign in 4 years. I'll be running for Ruler of the Known Universe (see, I'm being fair. I only want to rule the *known* universe). When I am truly Lord and Emperor over all reality, you won't have to worry about such things as election confusion or "voter's intent".

I'll have executions every day! And televise them--with play by play announcing! Hell, I'll sell brand-name companies the rights to have the death row inmate wear their logo as they get juiced out of this life. "As you can see, Inmate #4966 is wearing the latest in Nike fashions. Nike! Just do it---whoa! His head's on fire!"

When I am Lord, you won't have to worry about elderly voters with poor sight screwing up an election, because all senior citizens will be living in wonderful, relaxing work....um, LEISURE camps. I'll still let them vote, I'll just neglect to tell them that I'm throwing their vote in the garbage.

It'll be a great day for the Universe when I take charge. I can hear the angels singing!

Vote Sevarius Jr. as Ruler of the Known Universe in 2004. "Why vote for the lesser of two evils?
Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Saturday, December 2, 2000 07:03:10 PM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Lynati- 1) Why are you trying to put a flat together by yourself? 2) Why did it take two hours to cut a pannel? I remember doing theater tech, and it only took that long if some had messed up royally somewhere. If you'll tell me exactly what you're trying to put together, I may be able to give you some hints to speed up the process.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Saturday, December 2, 2000 05:58:58 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

The Winter 2000 issue of AVALON MISTS is now posted! Lots of great stuff from many talented people! Click on my name or go to http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/avmists/

P.S. > we had an e-mail glitch yesterday and may have lost a bunch of stuff; if anyone wrote me yesterday and doesn't hear back in a timely manner, it could be because your message was eaten by our computer.

Lynati > see above ... I haven't gotten any e-mails from you :(

Warpmind > you mean like the way they gave _me_ the TGS story "The Seduction"? ; ) About the books, hey, that's great, I hope so!

Gunjack > my crew of what? Pacifist Adultresses? ; )

Courtney > I think one of the points folks are trying to make is that while we're mostly all interested in getting the show back, we're wondering just how e-mailing you is supposed to help. As for attending Gatherings, I've been to all four so far and don't exactly have money to burn. As for parents, well, I for one would be happy to answer any questions they might have in hopes of proving we're not all a bunch of degenerate psychos if it would help in winning permission for more people to attend. Because it's fine and well to say things like you've been, but pardon some of us for thinking it doesn't sound like there's a productive plan in place.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Saturday, December 2, 2000 05:52:41 PM
IP: 21-043.075.popsite.net

*Lynati Enters, rubbing her shoulders*

Pain from my Tech class this time. I was just on the scroll saw for TWO hours strait- working on one panel!
The teacher originally thought it would only take me half an hour per panel. I now have two out of five cut (not "finished", just cut) and the box project is due way too soon...

On the brighter side, the information on my zip disk may be salvageable...I was complaining to a friend of mine, who has the dorm room next to me, and she said it sounded like the disk had been reformatted to a PC (hence the little "PC" symbols) and we tried it on her computer and things showed up. The school computers are Macs, so I don't know how this happened, but I guess it explains why they refused to read the information. Said information is now viewable in something called "notepad"; In a really bizarre format and with a bunch of extra numbers and symbols ( and all the punctuation is screwy), but still viewable! Saveable! when we have time, were going to put everything on her computer and I'm going to fix it all up. Wish me luck. And many thanks to Katie Sheehan, who deserves recognition even though she'll never read this. ^_^

Warpmind, lain, Christine: I tried e-mailing you something, but the computer was being wierd and I don't know if it got sent. Let me know, it seemed to be important.

XenaTrek: Happy Birthday!

*Lynati exits, trying to remember where her jar of Tiger Balm is.*
Lynati
Saturday, December 2, 2000 04:19:55 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Wrapmind< peace and I guess I'm sorry too I do have a really bad temper
courtney - [elisagirl2000@go.com]
Saturday, December 2, 2000 04:17:57 PM
IP: adsl-dynamic35-195.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

Wheres the b*day keeper? *looks around* Must be busy or soemthing. Anyway... just wanted to share w/ everyone that I am officially a whole year older *today*. Though my friends won't be celebrating it until tomorrow. Grrrr. At least I spent some money on myself in the last two days. *big grin*. More 'presents' tomorrow. WAHOO! *smiles*

*quietly leaves the room before it gets too excited*
XenaTrek - [ellislis@yahoo.com]
Orlando, FL, USA
Saturday, December 2, 2000 03:42:45 PM
IP: user-37kaosd.dialup.mindspring.com

Gunjack> RL's been a factor (college applications, mostly) but I've also just wanted to steer clear of another consuming debate. Funny... me, avoiding a debate. Anyway, thanks for responding:

<<<Following that logic, why don't we simply deport criminals instead of imprisoning them?>>> Heh, sure, but THEY'D never go for that. They didn't break the law because of a difference in opinion of how the clubhouse should be run, they just wanted to exploit an avenue. If the laws were different, they'd have nothing to exploit.

<<<Are you saying that, all else being equal, a person who has attended college for four years is less likely to break the law than one who has attended for three?>>> Well, you're drawing the line very thinly. One year less of college is not "ignorance." You're replying as if I'd said the rate of law-breaking is inversely proportional to the rate of education. I'm being much simpler than that: knowing stuff, good, not knowing stuff, bad.

Azrael> <<<Mostly he was more enlightened <educated, Entity?>>>> Yep.

Patrick> <<<Don't forget about Khan Noonien Singh.>>> Heheh, which reminds me, according to the makers of the next Trek film, they've come up with the best villain since Khan. Interesting, huh? To me, describing the movie as a light romp then adding this creates a bit of a paradox.

*skims over the labyrinth yet separated him from the top of the page* Man, too many posts. Didn't someone just comment on how the CR seems to have been slowing down? Humorous. :)

Anyway, just one more thing from me...

***RANT AHEAD***

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker> Has anyone come in with this, yet? The oiginal cut was 76 minutes. The edited one is 70 minutes. WB is releasing the EDITED version only, on both VHS and DVD (like kids or kids' parents would buy DVD). The DVD will NOT have the cut scenes in its "deleted footage." Now, some executives over there have said stuff like "we're hopeful" and "maybe in the future" in regards to an uncut release, but that just means "no" the way I see it. They animated those six minutes of footage. That has to be several grand. Several hundred grand, even? And they're going to just sit on it.

This isn't the first time WB has ticked me off. It isn't even the second. They have a long history. First they screwed over The Fantastic Four by making a slapped-together piece of crap only to retain the property rights. Currently, they're doing something similar with Queen of the Damned. Even though the first film made well over a hundred mil, they're throwing this one together just to milk it before their rights expire. They're combining the final two books in Rice's initial "trilogy," which is like combining Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. They didn't even try to get any of the original makers. Rice practically got on her knees and begged them to use her script, which she was charging the lowest amount of money allowable by the writer's union for. But no, they go out and hire a hack.

And now, they're screwing over this Batman video. I am on the verge of bombing WB.

***END RANT***
Entity
Saturday, December 2, 2000 01:32:07 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

*Warpmind enters, grinning sheepishly at Courtney.*
As you might have noticed, I said there was not *much* reasong not to attend... I didn't say there were *no* reasons not to attend. The money issue, I'll acknowledge, since this upcoming Gathering will be the first time I've had the money for the trip. As for minors going, well, that's pretty much a dead giveaway that their parents can say no. That's just a part of being a concerned adult, after all. I did not mean to insult you in any way, but I see that I apparently did... would it help, if I told you that the only reason the entire Norwegian branch is going, is that the Norwegian branch consists of me, and me alone...? :| *Hands over a single crystalline rose, smiling.* Peace?

*Gone*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, December 2, 2000 12:38:41 PM
IP: mp-217-218-232.daxnet.no

Wrapmind< you are being mean to those teenagers that there pranters will not allow them to go and the ppl that do not have the money to. And I'm planing on going to the one that might be in Kingston in two years from now. And I'm sure you have not been to every one of the Gatherings and you can't tell me that not haveing enought money is not a good excuse to not go. I'm sure there's a lest a hunred ppl that want to go but do not have the money to go. And in this country a child under the age of 18 can not do anything with out a pantert singerter to get on a plane.So I could not just runway to L.A. or anything if I did have the money hey I can not even drive so if that is not a reson for you then you can just shut up.
Courtney - [elisagirl2000@go.com]
Saturday, December 2, 2000 11:43:10 AM
IP: adsl-dynamic35-195.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

Sorry, I'm back.. I just got this in an email from my friend in Swizerland and thought it was pretty good. Just wanted to share ;)

1. Imagine that we read of an election occuring anywhere in the third world in which the self-declared winner was the son of the former prime minister and that former prime minister was himself the former head of that nation's secret police(CIA).

2. Imagine that the self-declared winner lost the popular vote but won based on some old colonial holdover (electoral college) from the nation's pre-democracy past.

3. Imagine that the self-declared winner's 'victory' turned on disputed votes cast in a province governed by his brother!

4. Imagine that the poorly drafted ballots of one district, a district heavily favoring the self-declared winner's opponent, led thousands of voters to vote for the wrong candidate.

5. Imagine that that members of that nation's most despised caste, fearing for their lives/livelihoods, turned out in record numbers to vote in near-universal opposition to the self-declared winner's candidacy.

6. Imagine that hundreds of members of that most-despised caste were intercepted on their way to the polls by state police operating under the authority of the self-declared winner's brother.

7. Imagine that six million people voted in the disputed province and that the self-declared winner's 'lead' was only 327 votes. Fewer, certainly, than the vote counting machines' margin of error.

8. Imagine that the self-declared winner and his political party opposed a more careful by-hand inspection and re-counting of the ballots in the disputed province or in its
most hotly disputed district.

9. Imagine that the self-declared winner, himself a governor of a major province, had the worst human rights record of any province in his nation and actually led the nation in executions.

10. Imagine that a major campaign promise of the self-declared winner was to appoint like-minded human rights violators to lifetime positions on the high court of that nation. None of us would deem such an election to be representative of anything other than the self-declared winner's will-to-power. All of us, I imagine, would wearily turn the page thinking that it was another sad tale of pitiful pre- or anti-democracy peoples in some strange elsewhere.

(From a newspaper in Zimbabwe.)

Later,
Love
lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
@home
Saturday, December 2, 2000 11:26:38 AM
IP: ttya04.ptbo.igs.net

*Warpmind enters, bleary-eyed, yawning and showing any and all sign of fatigue.*
Well, 36 sleepless hours so far... gonna be good to get a nap tonight, that's for sure... :| Oh, well, got into an interesting argument today, which brightened things up a bit... someone tried to argue the point that Scots have nothing under their kilt. Of course, the *correct* statement is that they *wear* nothing under their kilt. Hours and hours of inspired confusion... ]:)

Lain: "Aquarius" by Aqua? Hmmm... you realize that's a Norwegian band, right? :) (For some reason, their song "Cartoon Heroes" seems eerily representative of the ongoing RP arcs in here...)

Christine: *Chuckle* Would it help if I told you I might have managed to get more people interested in your books? *Innocent smile.* 'Sides, even your non-naughty stories are good, remember? It's just that with such a title, and your signature, there's bound to be a *lot* of letdowns... ];)

Gunjack Valentine: Of course you like the word "Malign". It has that nice, savage ring to it... particularly if you pitch your voice just an extre three notches down whenever you say it... ]:) As for what gave you away... just a general impression; nothing specific I can place my finger on (and, likely as not, nothing I may *want* to place a finger on...) And yes, maces are blunt weapons. I got that joke from SJ Games' "Murphy's Rules" book, actually - there's a list of *competely* useless enchanted artifacts, including the Mace of Sharpness, and the Quarterstaff of Transformation (upon entering a fight, it will transform into the finest silk) and many, many other completely pointless items. :) And yes, my name linked to my latest story. Take your time, and read the 27 other stories in the series first... ];)

Courtney: Not to sound like a meanie, but there's not really much excuse to fail to attend the Gathering. Heck, even the *entire* Norwegian branch of the fandom is signed up to be there. :)

Wilek: Now, that link is just plain unnerving... sounds like good ol' mr. Stephen King has been messing with the underlying forces of nature. Again... ];)

Gside: Thanks. What clued you in on the major conflict? Might it have been the repetitive mention of an upcoming demon war? ;) And yes, it was the bouncies. However, do note that as a fellow sick person, I admire your effortlessness. ]:)

Well, that's about it. Adios for now, guys.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, December 2, 2000 11:10:32 AM
IP: mp-217-237-233.daxnet.no

Hi.. I'm at home on an INCREDIBLY slooooooooooow computer but I just wanted to say I was still alive though I probably won't make a real post until Monday.
Try to think of some other really tasty controvercial topics to toss around so se can have more fun ;)

Love,
lain
@home
Saturday, December 2, 2000 11:10:08 AM
IP: ttya04.ptbo.igs.net

Gunjack Valentine:> <<Can we say "Courtmartial"? >> Well, it would be a little exaggerated now...although, for sure some of them are having their troubles, since our commanders for sure don't like swackers...
<<Did he, by any chance, write books? >> I don't think so...at least, not that I remember. He wrote a theatrical drama about life and passion of someone called Jesus...a drama in which Jesus does not appear even for a moment, and everything is narrated from the viewpoint of some of those who met him. He eventually wrote a song about his Atheism...a song that had a role in making me detach from Catholic church. Its title is "Il testamento di Tito" ("The testament of Tito"), and I'd like to send it to you, but I can't...it's 7 MB of MP3, and my server will not accept it. I'll try to email to you yhe lyric, anyway, if you like. Tell me if you're interested.
<< True. And I'd rather have a Pacifist Anarchist behind me than one of Christine's crew...>> Sorry, I'm not sure about the meaning of this...

Winterwolf:> Check your email

Kitainia:> Check your email

See later!

Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Saturday, December 2, 2000 09:30:19 AM
IP: h255-22-81.mi2.albacom.net

Warpmind> Read your latest. Nice, once again building up to a major conflict, it appears.
<<You're a sick individual, you know?>>: Well, I am in engineering. And I'm working on another major and a minor, in an honors program that requires theses or research and grad level classes. What was it that set it off this time? The bouncies?
<<We really ought to get together to compare notes>>: Are you sure that's even legal? And I thought that was part of the Nerus Project. To assemble such strange individuals as we.

Lain> <<2-5am is an excellent time to play club music with the bass turned waaaaaaaaay up>>: They've got it all wrong. That's when you should be breaking out Imperial March, Mars, Toccatta, and such. And I truly think that Cannon is helped immensely if you can hit the resonnance frequency of the building. Though hopefully the people will clam down.

Kirshanta> <<the cardinal in the 3 musketeers - now that was evil>>: Richelieu.

Gunjack> <<Elegently worded>>: Well, I do try to utilize all that I have learned in college.
<>: Actually, I haven't yet decided on what the closest analogy is. One candidate reminds me of an amusing storyling from Polymer City Chronicles (a webcomic).
<<Yep, you're a regular Saruman>>: Thank you. I've always had a fondness for the mages.
<<We *romantic* people prefer to think she was touched by his sincerity>>: Well, I was trying to excuse it to a cynic.
<<if this fact becomes common knowledge, it could crash the entire videogame industry?>>: Fun. And the stron would rise from the ashes, while the weak are blown away like the chaff they are.
<<Was he the moon king?>>: The moon king was actually Robin Williams, but he used the stage name Ray DiTutto.
<<No flash>>: But you can remedy that, can you not?
<<ROUSs? I don't think they exist>>: We know the secrets of the fire swamp. We can live there happily for some time
<<Nope. Is it any good>>: I quite like it. You have an incarnate God in a hand me down universe, her church of one (two now, I believe), some local adventureres (again my mage leanings make me feel sorry for Anathus), melting pandas, a Fight Club started by the squirrel familliar, an encounter with the Dread Pirate Westly, the ultimate foot massager as a databaseless Hitchhiker's Guide. And of course, "great hopping slugs on pogosticks" (quote from other comic as homage).
<<It gives me a reason to get out of bed>>: Good plan. And I would most likely get more rest if I followed it.
<<Those are the guys who *really* scare my buddy Jeff>>: Well, I was referencing a line from the movies.
<<A great Shockwave flash movie>>: This sounds more viable than most other virus warnings.
<<the only comic I've ever found that (sucsessfully) combines gaming, the Civil War, and Dune>>: You forgot DBZ (slightly), paintball, Avalon, and blowing into milk.
<<it is probably not, in fact a COMPUTER but rather a RABID WOLVERINE>>: Fur and teeth, my friend. Fur and teeth.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Saturday, December 2, 2000 02:46:53 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

Found something interesting, kids; click my name. I have no way of knowing if this is for real, but I know it's *really* cool...<muhahaha>
Wilek
Saturday, December 2, 2000 01:37:58 AM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

SOROW: I'm at UT-Austin.
Doug
Saturday, December 2, 2000 01:28:03 AM
IP: pool-63.52.167.216.dlls.grid.net

Hey, how is everyone doing?

One thing that I really hate about being here is that if they have nothing for us to do we just have to sit around and pretend that we are doing something. This whole week was just "busy work" because most of our people were gone. So this week I've been busy and yet not busy.

Demona evil?- I'd be willing to give her a chance, but I don't think that I could fully trust her again. I would always be prepared for her to betray me. But that's just my nature.

Gotta go.
Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.com]
Saturday, December 2, 2000 01:25:07 AM
IP: 211.216.216.100

No time for a logic hit tonight... Spent too long replying to all the email that's been sitting in me box for the last month... That means you, Lain. : )
I don't know if I'll be able to get on over the weekend, so I wanted to pass on this one Helpful Hint:
If, during your daily regimen, a computer begins to brutally bite and claw at your calves, it is probably not, in fact a COMPUTER but rather a RABID WOLVERINE.
Act accordingly.
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Teeth and claws, my friends...
Saturday, December 2, 2000 12:45:47 AM
IP: 209-223-253-7.ausa.net

Frist thing is I CAN'T GO TO THE GATHERING!That is why I'm doing this. The reson I'm wanting ppl to email me to because I don't think all of you want me to email you and ask you that way if you want to join in with us if you do want me to do that I will just say so and I'll email each person and ask if they want to join be a lot longer but hey i'll do that for gars. Ok I see everyone point about going to the Gathering but how many teenagers and collage kids that live on the other side of the country get to it. I know I can't go because of that (I live in the Great lakes state) I can afford to go to The Gathering I wish I could so I could meet the people that I chat with but I can't go. So this is my own way to say that I'm still with gargoyles and that I want it to come back. Another reson I can't go is because my Mom and Dad well never let me go. So that is why I'm in this group. If there are others like me that can not go to the Gathering and want to support Gargoyles email me please
Courtney - [elisagirl2000@go.com]
Friday, December 1, 2000 10:37:42 PM
IP: adsl-dynamic34-58.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

Well said, Shinigami!

The Gathering 2001 wants YOU. Register now, while the early-bird membership rate is still available! Don't miss out on the BIGGEST and BEST Gathering yet!

The Fifth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles
Gathering 2001: City of Angels
Los Angeles CA -- June 22-25, 2001

Be there! >:)
Patrick Toman
Friday, December 1, 2000 10:06:39 PM
IP: acab930a.ipt.aol.com

Gunjack- Kublai- Now, I'm not sure I'm remembering all this correctly, it's been a few years since I took my Middle Ages course, but if I recall correctly, Kublai was responsible for several of the massacre type "battles" the Khans were famous for. Like I said, he wasn't as bad as some, but the fact that he knew all these people had good Ideas ,he stole some after all, he killed them all anyway, including any women and children who couldn't get away. Nice guy, huh?
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Friday, December 1, 2000 09:45:50 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

I believe also that Demona is something of a coward, though ultimately her real cowardice is on the moral/emotional level, in that she runs away from the responsibility that she bears for her own actions, never facing it. That's a major reason for her problems, in fact. The night before and the night after the Wyvern Massacre say it all:

1. Demona, instead of warning the other gargoyles about the Vikings, just runs away and hides on the beach.

2. When Goliath believes that she is dead, instead of revealing herself to him, she simply hides, too frightened and guilt-ridden to face him.

3. She lets Princess Katharine and the Magus take away the eggs without lifting a talon in their defense. This is particularly noteworthy in view of the fact that Demona didn't know that these two had changed; the obvious conclusion that she must have drawn when she saw them loading up the wagon was that they were making off with the eggs for some horrible purpose - and she just leaves these, all that's left of the clan now other than herself, to their fate. (Of course, it turns out that the eggs were all right and that Katharine and the Magus raised them well, but Demona's action here must be judged by her knowledge - she still believed that the Princess and the Magus were anti-gargoyle at this time, and she did nothing to "save" the eggs from them).

And the crucial point - instead of admitting that the massacre was partly her fault, she blames it all entirely on the humans. She runs away throughout the series from the fact that her own actions have helped cause her misery. That's probably just as crucial as actions of more conventional cowardice.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, December 1, 2000 09:17:22 PM
IP: 216.87.46.147.dialup-stl.primary.net

Valentine> I used Cowardice to contrast her to some of the other characters. For instance, in one of the early episodes (the title escapes me) Demona hunts Goliath and Hudson all over the city with a laser rifle. Goliath is wounded, and Hudson has to protect him. Goliath says "but you can't fight Demona," and Hudson replies, "Aye, I can fight her. I just can't beat her." Then he procedes to hold her off until sunrise, but it's no sure thing. In a similar situation, Demona would usually run away, then plot revenge against whoever killed the friend she abandoned.

I don't think she's a coward in the classic sense. She's obviously willing to put herself in danger, but she's not willing to sacrifice her life for what she believes in. She lacks a sort of heroic courage.

She is smart, though.

Also, she was always a bit vengeful. Even before she spent 1000 years as a fugitive. :)

Everybody else> I do want to go on record as saying Demona is my absolute favorite character in the entire series. Ever since I started writing fanfic, I've had to resist writing the story where some character of mine "redeems" Demona with his boundless love. That's too easy, even though I personlly want to do it. I think Demona has to earn her own redemption.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Friday, December 1, 2000 08:45:10 PM
IP: 198.215.20.221

Wilek - Dang. I mean... *DANG*! O_O
I'll have to invent a few rules (limit breaks aren't included in GURPS) and some new cyberware, but that's no biggie. Plus, these guys are so danged COOL that they'll be a treat to write up... 8D

Incidentaly, does all of this stuff come from the same world?
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Friday, December 1, 2000 08:14:08 PM
IP: 209-223-253-66.ausa.net

*Valentine kicks in the door and enters, twirling his berettas and singing the "Funky Ceili" at the top of his lungs. He empties both pistols into DC during the final chorus, jumps into his Comfy Chair, and grabs a flask of Cyliborne out of a drawer*

Life is good. Mine is friggin' AWESOME! The morning sucked, but a little nap, a little philosophy, a little modeling, and a comic archive or two set things right. And as a bonus, I get this really cool crunchy-celery sound whenever my nervous twitch kicks in... o_O
Oh, and DC? The forty 9mm Cor-bons were for killing my halflife patch...

Lain><<M'lady believes that revenge is a dish best served cold... *taps fingers together and regards now-hung-over residence mates with a raised eyebrow and twinkle in her eye*>> Have I ever mentioned that I *REALLY* like the way you think? 8D <<Isn’t it all about the badness? .. :*(>> I hope not... : (
<<The atheist who sees Anubis on a regular basis.. since I was 6.. IT'S ALL IN MY MIND I SAY!!!!! HE'S NOT REALLY THERE!!!!!!!>> O_O *speechless* ...WOW! <<Eeek, I even have a nickname for him...>> What was it?

David G><<Cowardice - she consistantly avoids conflicts if she's not sure she can win.>> I'm not sure. Couldn't this just be that she's smart enough to pick her battles?
<<Dishonor - she's a sneaky, vindictive b!tch. (and I love her for it)>> I'd say this is just the natural result of spending ten lifetimes as a fugitive. When the whole world hates you, you watch your back or get wasted.
Other than that (and I'm not sure about these; it's been years since I've seen a Gargs ep...), good analysis!

Azreal><<Nicer than Ghengiz certainly, but is that really saying much? Mostly he was more enlightened <educated, Entity?> but still held with the ways of the Mongles like his Father and Grandfather.>> Here we run into a basic problem: Total Ignorance. I know *nothing* about Kublai other than what showed up in that old poem... Care to fill me in?

SOROW><> I've gotta start taking that fragger again soon... I've already taken it four times+, but I don't get to stop 'till I get a 36 or college starts... : P <<And I bought a really expensive gargoyle statue at the mall.>> Gratz! Who does he look like? <<Take it easy, I'm in a good mood!>> Glad to hear I'm not the only one! ; )

Doug><<Enough to talk about as it is.>> For YOU, maybe... : ) <<Guess who's one of the four very deserving officers?>> It's nice to see friends get on in the world... : )

Warpmind><<"Malign". Taste that word; it's an excellent substitute, isn't it? ]:)>> *I* like it... More direct than "Malevolent", and it still has that dark ring to it... 8 ) <<Well, it seems that few things ever manage to properly disturb you.>> I'm already so disturbed, there's no turbs left to dis... <<That, and I percieve a slight xenoph... I'm shut up. ];)>> Depends heavily on the "Xeno", doesn't it? ; ) ...And out of idle curiousity, what gave me away? o_O <<Oh, and which part of the teaser was it that got to you; the Gawain or the Brook'n'Banshee bit? ]:)>> You mean I have to pick one? O_O ...seriously, it was both of them. The Gawain part was just hilarious, and the brooklyn part was... well, classic Brooklyn. <<Like a Mace of Sharpness...>> Aren't maces... Blunt? Or is that the point (no pun intended)? <<and a female martial artist with a mental imbalance...>> Typhoid Maryyyy! <<and, of course, puns, lots of'em, ranging from bad to terrible... ]:)>> We need more shows like this... <<Do feel free to click my name. :)>> Is that the link to the new story!? Agh, not enough time! O_O

*Valentine knocks back his flask, and then starts*
Wow, COOL! I just remembered the eyepopper of a dream that slipped my memory yesterday... 8D ...Mmmm, Xen gaming store...

Robby - Good luck on the finals, and here's to hoping you don't wear out your hands with all that drawing... o_O

Gside><<Especially if a good bit of harmonic motion is induced. In other words, bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy...>> Elegently worded. <<Hmm, the closest analogy I can come up with only makes me think of the pain, and admiration for the guts needed.>> I could have gone my WHOLE LIFE without that mental picture... *winces*
<<Not a problem. With my many coloredness, it's almost odd that I don't get it more.>> Yep, you're a regular Saruman... ; ) <<It was part of her job to help get the box.>> We *romantic* people prefer to think she was touched by his sincerity... : P <> You do realize that if this fact becomes common knowledge, it could crash the entire videogame industry? o_O <<The opening play?>> Possibly... And that's all I can think of. <> Was he the moon king? His three-headed clockwork vulture gave me the creeps...
<<joecartoon.com Be sure to have Flash.>> No flash. Crap. : P
<<"Then he explained the name was the important for inspiring the necessary fear. You see, no one would surrender to the Dread Pirate Westley">> ROUSs? I don't think they exist... <<Ever read Acid reflux?>> Nope. Is it any good?
<<Ah. But I've gotten in the habit of reading them as they are posted.>> I prefer to save them up and read 'em in the morning. *Shrugs* ...It gives me a reason to get out of bed... : ) <<Nope, NSA girl (they're the good guys).>> Those are the guys who *really* scare my buddy Jeff.

Speaking of scary computer stuff, my dad just passed this to me:
<<From: Omidvar, Omid>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 4:20 PM
To: FBOD, All Employee List
Subject: Important Virus alert
Importance: High
>> Hi everybody
A very dangerous virus is going around. Make sure that you don't open it. The subject of Email would be: A great Shockwave flash movie. And there would be an attachment called: "CREATIVE.EXE". Make sure that you don't open this.
As always if you get an Email from somebody who you don't know make sure you don't open it.>> ...There's a bunch more, but that's the basics. I'm pretty sure it comes from a reliable source, so you might wanna be on the lookout...

Shadowrider><<(i.e. some people who still doesn't understand that we are in the Army now, and we cannot simply do anything we like just because of we like it)>> Can we say "Courtmartial"? o_O <<Indeed. De Andrè is a Pacifist, an Anarchist and an Atheist, and he's VERY proud of all of this.>> Did he, by any chance, write books? I'm looking for a few good ones on Athiest philosophy... <<...and furthermore, I can share for sure the INTENTIONS of what he says...>> True. And I'd rather have a Pacifist Anarchist behind me than one of Christine's crew...

Mara><<And if you're serious... try explaining what the h-e double hockey sticks point you're trying to prove.>> Ben nice... o_o ...I think they're just having trouble adjusting to the whole "COMMENT room" idea... : P

*checks his watch*
Yeeee, 7 PM already. Where DOES the day go? Oh, and Wilek, I just checked my email today and found your message. Sorry about that. : P ...I'll get started on 'em as soon as possible. And I'll try to get a Logic Hit in later tonight...

The link goes to Clan of Bob, the only comic I've ever found that (sucsessfully) combines gaming, the Civil War, and Dune... o_O

Fiddlee-diddlee-diaddlee-dee
I was born to play the Funky Ceili
O'er the seas, and far away
Off to Amerikay
Fiddlee-diddlee-diaddlee-dee
Where the wild wild women are waiting for me...
-Black 47, "Funky Ceili"
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Mentat Inside
Friday, December 1, 2000 07:54:48 PM
IP: 209-223-253-66.ausa.net

Courtney, "Demona" et al: I keep seeing this same post over and over about how if we want Gargoyles back on the air we have to e-mail you. Why? Are you Disney execs going incognito?

You want this show back? Come to the Gathering.. help us make 500 people. Go here: http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/

And if you're serious... try explaining what the h-e double hockey sticks point you're trying to prove.
Shinigami - [MCordova999@hotmail.com]
Friday, December 1, 2000 07:18:13 PM
IP: spider-mtc-tc022.proxy.aol.com

Brooklyn - try to balance RP and the rest of your post.

**EVIL DEBATE**
Ok, I understand what pure evil is and what pure good is. But in the debate about good vs evil, do the ends (pure good) justify the means (killing some innocent people)?
**END EVIL DEBATE**

**BFTS RP continues**
DPH asks, "Did Winterwolf tell you about any of us?"
**END BFTS RP for now**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Friday, December 1, 2000 06:49:31 PM
IP: max1-49.cwy.cei.net

Here again, with some replies this time. There are some interesting topics here and there, but I have no time to read everything, so I'll stay out...

For those who are wondering, my service is going quite well. I'm doing some interesting things, I got some new friends to have fun with, and I eventually manage to work a little on my fanfics. Of course, there are some problems (i.e. some people who still doesn't understand that we are in the Army now, and we cannot simply do anything we like just because of we like it), but nothing particularily bad.

Winterwolf:> I got your package, and a lot of thanks for sending it. I'll send you a email in a few hours.

Gunjack Valentine:> <<Dude, the new mp3 is one of the best EVER. >> Glad you liked it. "La guerra di Piero" is indeed one of the most famous songs ever here in Italy, and was (and still is) an inspiration for many people and movements.
<<It's a ...War protest!? >> Indeed. De Andrè is a Pacifist, an Anarchist and an Atheist, and he's VERY proud of all of this. His songs reflect his thinking, of course. I don't share everything he thinks and says in his songs, but I can't deny the pure beauty of his works...and furthermore, I can share for sure the INTENTIONS of what he says...

Kitainia:> Glad you and Doug liked the song. I was quite sure you two were going to appreciate it. <<Hope you will tell us why someday, you piqued my curiosity. >> I know, I know...but I'm still not authorized to say anything...not here, at least...

Welcome here Kirshanta! Hope you'll stay good in here!

See tomorrow!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Friday, December 1, 2000 06:33:21 PM
IP: h217-166-142.mi2.albacom.net

Hey,
Once again a few replies and a post.

<Winterwolf>
:( sorry I haven't heard from you. We should talk again soon.
<Bronx>\
Hey how goes it? I'd love to hear from you!

<BFTS RP>
The brown gargoyle caped his azure wings around his body.
"Well let's see. I am the leader of the Avalon clan. We have a large rookery of about 45 eggs. My clan was originally from Scotland. Most were destroyed in 994,but the my rookery parents as well a seven adults survived. The seven adults to my knowledge are living in manhattan as well as my rookery mother Angela. I possess weak magical abilities but through the training I recieved from lord Oberon my craft strengthens. I was the strongest of our rookery on Avalon, my mate leads the clan in my absence.

<END BFTS RP>
Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Friday, December 1, 2000 06:13:56 PM
IP: 216.117.75.227

S.O.G. Save Our Gargoyles if you want gargoyles back on the air again email me so you can help us Please I know you want the gargoyles back or else you would not be reading this please email so you can help
Courtney - [elisagirl2000@go.com]
Friday, December 1, 2000 05:38:50 PM
IP: adsl-dynamic34-58.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

YYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!! I'm tired!
Doug> Are you at UT Austin or Tech or what?
SOROW
Friday, December 1, 2000 05:03:40 PM
IP: a030-0874.dll2.splitrock.net

Whew but it's nice to get a chance to sit down for a little! Been on the go since 8 AM, cleaning and doing laundry and baking cookies and shopping for stocking stuffers. When it seems that I'm taking a _break_ by sitting down to work on Avalon Mists, that's saying something! ; )

Warpmind > ::raspberry:: Well, if you get really really bored and don't want to read the back of the cereal boxes one more time, maybe you'll give Bad Girls a try even though it's not naughty. LOL, the scary part is knowing that it's been so long since I've written a naughty one that soon I'm bound to snap and produce something of unrelieved bawd ...

Speaking of which ...

Spike > said it before but I'll say it in public, woo-hoo, good job on the new one!

Lynati > aw, hell, that's terrible about your disk! I've lost a few things in my time and it's such a wretched feeling ... my sympathies!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, December 1, 2000 04:55:53 PM
IP: 15-145.075.popsite.net

Kirshanta: Schindler certainly wasn't a Saint, hence my use of the word "or" in "Saints or Schindlers." I didn't want to say, "Saints or even Schindlers." It just didn't sound right.

Schindler was a profiteer, a scoundrel, a letcher, and a card-carrying member of the Nazi party. I used him as an example, however, of someone within the functioning society of Nazi Germany who wound up chosing a path Against rather than With the exploitation and suffering.

If you look back far enough, most Saints aren't from the pure a background either.

Schindler was a man, a man with flaws, perhaps amoung them vice and cowardice, but he also found enough courage to willingly do good at his own expense. Also, if you ask any of the surviving Schindler Jewden (sp) or see the interviews with them, or the way they celebrated his Birthday in Israel on several occassions, you'd be amazed at the difference between how they saw him and how he saw himself.

Perversely, Schindler was a very humble man in respect to how he viewed himself morally.

People do grow up. Part of growing up as children is learning it isn't ok to stab your little sister with a fork, break other kid's toys, or pick the cat up by its tail. Part of growing up morally is also being remorseful for the transgressions of our past, and resolved not to commit them again in our future. we are imperfect, but defined by our struggle with that imperfection. While most people we hold accountable are not children any more, I think it is safe to say that almost all individual members of the human race have some growing up left to do.
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, December 1, 2000 04:51:21 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Sorry for the double me. I dind't get Toku's 'till after.
Small adendum that proves my point - Shindler, as wonderful and great as what he did was, was by no means a saint. he did some pretty nasty things in his life too - but we don't look at those because we feel he made up for it.

By the same token, Demona has a chance to make up for her past and redeem herself through her daughter. I think that, to a certain extent, having befriended a human and having held herself back from kiling any other humans, or the clan in awhile somewhat qualifies - But of course, it's not enough.
Kirshanta - [kirshanta@yahoo.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Friday, December 1, 2000 04:30:18 PM
IP: g69-184.citenet.net

Agreed - if you limit yourself to T.V. and not TGS - OK, she was, for want of a better term - evil.
However, getting back to TGS, I don't think her best behaviour is solely for Angela's purpose. How many of us have done things, initially, that were for someone we loved, to not lose them for example, and after awhile this thing (be it a change of atitude, or a taste for something) ends up growing on you and you realize after awhile that hey! I'm not the same person I used to be.
I'm not saying that she will win Miss Gargoyle of the year or anything, but she is this much closer to being nice, which in turn makes her that much farther from being evil.
No?
Kirshan - [kirshanta@yahoo.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Friday, December 1, 2000 04:22:05 PM
IP: g69-184.citenet.net

Evil is the exercise of selfishness … valuing ones self and one’s own wants and needs over those of others beyond simple self-preservation. Darker still, when we value our wants over other’s needs. Evil is made manifest in not only our actions, but our inaction and intentions. Evil is the part of our nature that tells us it is ok not to reconsider our animal impulses when we deal with others. Evil is the voice in our hearts that tells us we don’t need to take responsibility for our amazing human abilities to affect changes in our relationships and environment. Evil is the voice that slips in whispers with our fear, anger, and self-preservation instincts and tries to drive us to harm and exploit others for gain, or just silently condone societies and systems that do some exploitation while we reap benefits from our own stance of inaction. Evil is part of what we are as humans.

If I were to pretend I was not an evil creature, I would be self-delusional. It is equally foolish to pretend we are not creatures with a nature of goodness as well. To simply give in to the evil part of our nature or to refuse to correct it since it is innately human is cowardly, self-serving, and irresponsible. To refuse our responsibilities due to conditions of stress or trauma is likewise a step down the proverbial "Dark Path." Unless you were temporarily insane, you are responsible for what you did. Extenuating circumstances that truly qualify as excuses stem from misunderstanding the projected outcome of our actions. Gambling or sacrificing someone else’s feelings, life, or possessions for your own benefit or gratification is a classic example of an evil act, and is something I’ve done so many times it makes me sick.

Nazis are America’s classic example of stereotypical evil.

Those like Hitler’s Nazi’s, those who reveled in the darkest aspects of their soul, exposing others to suffering and destruction for the sake of gain and self-service, those are the most striking representations of evil in its full range.

There were those who simply obeyed orders to benefit from the system. There were those who took pleasure from killing Jews. There were those who sought the power to rule over the world through tyranny, genocide, and war. There were also those who obeyed because they feared for themselves, and thus sacrificed millions to save their own hides.

Further away from evil, we’ll find those who obeyed out of fear for their families and those they loved, and further still, those more courageous folks live Schindler who risked what they could in order to save people from the maelstrom of evil and destruction that the Nazis had created.

Most of us aren’t Nazis, but we aren’t Saints or Schindler’s either. The question posed to us in life is: "Which one shall I give my life's path trying to be like? The self-serving or the servant-self?"

Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, December 1, 2000 04:17:42 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Kirshanta- First: we were limiting the arguement to Demona in the Series, not TGS.
Second: In the series she never did feel remorse for what she did. Even taking into account the crap she went through does not make it "okay."
Third: As far as I can see in TGS, Demona still has not taken any responsiblity for what she did. She has not tried to make up for any of it. Using your Star Wars analogy: Darth Vader, in returning to the Light Side sacrificed his life to kill the Emporer, save his son and daughter, as well as the rest of the Galaxy. While it may not actually be enough, the fact that he didn't have time for more gives him a little lee-way. Demona, on the otherhand, has just stopped being actively evil. She has not tried to repair any of the damage she has done, and, most importantly, she is only on "good behavior" because she knows that's the only way she'll get to see Angela. If Angela died or suddenly didn't want to see Demona any more, Demona would go back to being evil in a heart-beat. She hasn't quit being evil, she's just curtailed it for what is, ultimately, a selfish reason.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Friday, December 1, 2000 03:12:29 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Hating Gore--> Katara, I couldn't agree with you more! And you know what my motto was for election day? "Anyone but Gore!"
Anonymous
Friday, December 1, 2000 02:49:00 PM
IP: bess-proxy.bethel.wednet.edu

Ahem...
Let us please look at this Demona issue in the proper frame of mind.
First off, I am afraid of anyone who says Hitler was not evil. (No offense intended). To explain this - let us first define evil. (No dictionary - please allow minor faults in the definition)

Evil is a state in which a person does or feels things which are considered by humans (or God for those who believe in him) as being immoral, heinous (sorry for the spelling - no dictionary) or spawn by hatred, against all basic rules that govern life, be it animal or human, while taking pleasure in doing so, and this WITHOUT REGRET FOR HIS OR HER ACTIONS.

In this vein, Demona WAS very close. Had she been as real as we all hope she is, she definitely would have been evil. However, being a cartoon (a Disney cartoon at that), we always got a little glimpse of the person she would have had Katherine not been brought up to despise gargoyles, thus alienating Demona and the Captain, thus bringing on Wyvern's massacre...etc, etc...

one fanfic I really liked was (and of course i cannot remember the name) one where there was an alternate time-line in which Demona was actually named Angel, and she and Goliath stayed at Wyvern and co-existed with the humans there. (Not in TGS) It was good because she was still her, with her personality and her quirks, but the good in her had won out.

Example: Can anyone say that Darth Vader was NOT evil? And yet, when Luke saved him and brought him back, he was Anakin again and he was NO LONGER EVIL.

Demona is such - NO LONGER CLOSE TO BEING EVIL. She had to swallow down a lot of hatred, she had to say no to that part of herself that dark part of herself, but come on - Demona is a changed gargoyle!!

Anyway, that's my view.

A small call for help please:
I've written a book which I would like to get published and maybe also unto the web. It's, well, how to explain it - maybe the title will explain better. It's called:
THE FOURTH RACE.
If anyone has any ideas on how to go about publishing or even posted (not very good with the internet yet), please let me know.

Thanx.

P.S. the cardinal in the 3 musketeers - now that was evil.
Kirshanta - [kirshanta@yahoo.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Friday, December 1, 2000 02:22:47 PM
IP: g69-184.citenet.net

Shadowrider> Things are fine here currently. Nothing going on to speak of as far as I care
James Birdsong
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:15:59 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-129-174.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

Valentine>> M'lady believes that revenge is a dish best served cold... *taps fingers together and regards now-hung-over residence mates with a raised eyebrow and twinkle in her eye*
I am a pacefist.. but that doesn't mean I am helpless..
(most of the time..)
;)
love
lain
Friday, December 1, 2000 12:55:40 PM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

*Lynati stumbles in*

tooo tired to properly read and respond, but this is the only time the lab is available to me today.

for clarification: The disk got toasted. I have my hand written copies of everything; but the computer version held the edited, more detailed versions in which I had everything worded exactly how I wanted it. Also, it represented many hours of simply typing things up so that I could send copies where they are needed...
The waste of effort gave me a stress headache, as well as depressing me greatly.
I'm going to put off typing anything else up until I get my own computer and have a harddrive to save things on (as well as multiple disk back-ups). And until I feel like it.
I'm going to go on writing in the notebooks- the stories won't be stifled, just slowed from going public...
All those hours. Gone. >sigh<
Sudden ranting:
That B1%6$! I still can't believe she told me everything would be fine, then lied about saying so...If she'd warned me that everything might get fried, I wouldn't have this anger, but to tell me...and then DENY it...
D@%%!& ! That B&$%#!
Alright , I'm through venting. (but not through being upset.)

I hope everyone has a good day. = )
or at least one better than mine...
Thanks again for offers of help...I might take you up on them; I'll think about it. when I'm awake and calm.

*Lynati Exits*
Lynati
Friday, December 1, 2000 12:11:21 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

*Valentine drags himself out from under his desk, looking like an improperly resserected corpse.*

Nighttime... SUCKS! Can't... SLEEP! Very... SICK!

Lain><<I'm glad there are *some* people in this residence that can get a good night's sleep.. Unfortunately, none of them are me...>> I know EXACTLY how you feel! I got to sleep at about 3:00, and got woken up at 7:00... <<*snarls in the general direction of the people next door, who seem to think that 2-5am is an excellent time to play club music with the bass turned waaaaaaaaay up, drink lots of beer, laugh very loudly and run up and down the halls and slam doors...*>> Mi'lady, what say we kill them ALL? With *RELISH*! *starts loading and checking a large pile of shotguns and pistols*

Shadowrider - Welcome back! Catching up shouldn't be a problem... It's been unbelievably slow this week...

We got three sizes 'o kilt!
Wee,
Not so wee,
And friggin' HUGE!
-Jeff Otken
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Friday, December 1, 2000 12:10:00 PM
IP: 209-223-253-1.ausa.net

Hi to everyone, I'm here again for a weekend. So, how are things going here? I'll try to update myself about the recent CR events, so I'll post more later

See soon!
Shadowrider - [shadowrider@katamail.com]
Milan, Italy
Friday, December 1, 2000 11:05:56 AM
IP: h213-16-195.mi2.albacom.net

*theE*
*groans and looks forlornly at bed*
lain
Friday, December 1, 2000 10:27:42 AM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

and no, there were no names mentioned..
oh sleep, how I wish I knew the better..
lain
Friday, December 1, 2000 10:26:50 AM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

*lain enters, grogily, with large dark circles under eyes and a mean snarl*

I'm glad there are *some* people in this residence that can get a good night's sleep.. Unfortunately, none of them are me..
*snarls in the general direction of the people next door, who seem to think that 2-5am is an excellent time to play club music with the bass turned waaaaaaaaay up, drink lots of beer, laugh very loudly and run up and down the halls and slam doors..*
*I* sure don't think so.. and I am sure my test results are showing that right about now (GRRRRRRRR!!!!!)
But there was a mysterious person who went to their 9am class to do their sight singing test and.. **accdentally** left their CD player running with Aqua's "Aquarius" playing rather loudly on repeat.. no names mentioned ]:} no names mentioned, of course... heh heh.. hey, quiet hours end at 8 am.. no wrong was comitted.. ;)
love (though wishing for more sleep and less class all day)
lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Friday, December 1, 2000 10:25:29 AM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

*Warpmind enters, grinning.*
I actually got something worthwhile done at work today! Click my name... if you dare. ]:)

Gside: You're a sick individual, you know? We really ought to get together to compare notes. ];)

Ah, well, that's it for the day, I think. Do feel free to click my name. :)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, December 1, 2000 08:23:27 AM
IP: hume.ti.telenor.net

DOUG - Ah, I'd forgotten about your fanfic. Thanks for mentioning that.

As for Magneto, I think that they're simply introducing him slowly (keeping the focus on Mystique and her recruits for now). They'll probably give him the big revelation near the end of the season.

Since according to what I've read "X-Men: Evolution" is doing well in the ratings at present, it's likely that there'll be a second season; I certainly hope that there is.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, December 1, 2000 07:20:57 AM
IP: 216.87.46.146.dialup-stl.primary.net

Sorry I haven't been able to post for so long, been busy and yet not so busy at the same time. Will explain tomorrow I hope.

Later
Jaden - [jaden12@hotmail.com]
Friday, December 1, 2000 04:39:31 AM
IP: 211.216.216.35

My thoughts on the "Evil" debate: Of all the various Philosophical debate on the nature of evil, I like the idea put forth by Camus; the reason for Evil is for mankind to rail against it, to prove it's worth, to prove ourselves worthy, if only to ourselves. Coming from a nihilist (that crazy Camus), that's pretty damn heartening.
Matt "King Snarf" Maybray - [reginald_q_bumbershoot@hotmail.com]
Drexel Hill, PA, USA
Friday, December 1, 2000 02:00:36 AM
IP: a030-1518.phl2.splitrock.net

Warpmind> <>: Why not? You knew it had to be said.
<<Oooo, topless archery, fun>>: I'd say topless just about anything is fun. Especially if a good bit of harmonic motion is induced. In other words, bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy...

Kitainia> <<Just no bra and shirttail pulled out>>: Just the tail? I'd think you'd want both sides out. but then I have no experience.

Christine> <<Bad Girls will feature swearing and probably violence, but precious little in the way of sex>>: May I say: Man.

Taleweaver> <<Where does the evil lie? In the hand that cast the blow or the mind that conceives that thought>>: The walrus or the carpenter? Who do you like better, the walrus ate the most, but the carpenter ate as many as he could get.

Kitainia> <<It makes both me and Shauna want to throw up>>: Hmm, the closest analogy I can come up with only makes me think of the pain, and admiration for the guts needed.
<<Sorry about the mix-up with Revel>>: Not a problem. With my many coloredness, it's almost odd that I don't get it more.

CSH> <<Presenting "Pillowing" -- for mature readers only>>: Nice, though I can't help but think you ran out of synonyms at one point.

Lynati> <>: Look at the context, Sneakers. Near the end, River Pheonix to James Earl Jones.
<>: It was part of her job to help get the box.

Gunjack> <<I'll never be able to look at those old D&D books the same way again>>: No, you won't. I remember wondering if Blizzard got their Amazon model right.
<<it'd be easier to identify the NON-disturbing parts>>: The opening play?
<<disturbing, and so was the whole "man on the moon" bit>>: I think Ray DiTutto was more freaky than disturbing.
<<Link. Now>>: joecartoon.com Be sure to have Flash.
<>: "Then he explained the name was the important for inspiring the necessary fear. You see, no one would surrender to the Dread Pirate Westley" Ever read Acid reflux?
<>: Ah. But I've gotten in the habit of reading them as they are posted.
Oh, and you may want to look into the Trans Siberian Orchestra version of Ukranian Bell Carol. I just found it today.
<<it was a FBI/Secret service girl, not a merc>>: Nope, NSA girl (they're the good guys).

Eh, early classes tomorrow. Will deal with Doug and later tomorrow.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:58:51 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

*Warpmind returns, grinning.*
Damn, I read one single fanfic after I post, and see what happens! Two quick responses in a row. :)

Lain: If you take another look, you'll notice that it was a *scroll* that had the label, not the dagger. The dagger just looks wicked. ];) But really, seeing death in person like that must be kinda creepy... hey, think you could ask him to visit me for a minor business proposal I have? ;) (No offense intended, mind you.)

Kit: Shauna disapproves of extra stuff on her bow, too? Figures. Can't really make instinctive shots if there are twenty pounds of extra aiming gear on the bow, eh? By the way... does she use on of those little supporters for the arrows, the kind that holds the arrow up against the bow instead of a finger? Appreciate any suggestions. :)

Well, that's it... Later.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:56:30 AM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

*Kat and Canyon wander into the CR*

MAN!! You know it's been a SLOW week when the only thing you have to be excited about is Cal-Trans opening up another lane on the I-15 expansion through City Heights.

*Gives warm hugs to ArchWolf, Doug, adn Kit* Thanks for the welcome back greetings.

RE evil debate: My only comments on this subject seems to parallel other comments already posted. 1) I don't feel that there is pure good or pure evil. Instead I see it in varying degrees, or shades of grey if you will. 2)It's about Free Will. As humans, we have being given the ability of CHOICE. We make our decisions based on what _WE_ want the end results of our actions to be. And of course, no one would necessarily call themselves evil. Most people (ie Hitler, etc) feel that they are doing something for the greater good. As it's already been stated, it all depends on which side of the fence you are standing on. ....(reads what she's just written and hopes like 7-7-3-4 that it made sense)

RE politics: I'm so sick of hearing about it. Although I registered as a Democrat, I voted for Bush, and that was only because I can't stand Gore at all. Now I'm happier than ever that I didn't vote for Gore. My feelings on the man is that he's being such a WUSS! Why can't he be a MAN and accept the fact that he didn't get the electoral votes. I have no respect for someone that wants to be my leader, if he and/or the people that work for him are just going to whine and cry when things aren't in their favor. Sheesh, just shrug it off man, and start making plans for the next election instead. ..

*takes a deep breath and gets off the soap box*

Well folks, guess that's it from me for now. Gonna do a final check of email and then snuggle down in bed with a book. *steps behind a screen in the corner and changes into a pair of sweats and thick socks, yawns and then wanders out of the CR in search of her bed*
Katara - [garglover66f@hotmail.com]
San Diego, CA
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:51:08 AM
IP: aca9780c.ipt.aol.com

Warpmind: Shauna dislikes sniper attachments too, finds them very cumbersome. Not that she ever needs them, mind you. :) I'll ask her if she has any archery tips.
Kit
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:34:36 AM
IP: pool-63.52.171.46.dlls.grid.net

Warpmind>> and since when does Ani like to have nasty looking daggers with his name on them??
(oh dear.. this could be even more fun.. The atheist who sees Anubis on a regular basis.. since I was 6.. IT'S ALL IN MY MIND I SAY!!!!! HE'S NOT REALLY THERE!!!!!!!.. Eeek, I even have a nickname for him..) Ooo and someday remind me to tell you the creepy story of how I knew exactly which night my mother would die, and how she didn't until about a minute after I ran in the door..
GOODNIGHT FOR REAL!!!!
love,
lain
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:33:12 AM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

Azrael: From what I've read in the papers, the claims are factually correct. The story goes that Cheney owns a lot of property here and lives on it, has done so for the past five or however many years it is. He also owns some property in Wyoming, and changed his voter registration to there a few weeks before he knew he was gonna be Bush's running mate for sure just to avoid the constitutional hassle (the Constitution says Prez and VP can not be from the same state). The professor in question is one who's very good at his job- David Prindle, one of the most senior and best in the Government Department here at _UT_. I've had him for two classes, I'm sure he knows what he's talking about, even if all I know of his opinion is what I've read in the Austin American Statesman and Daily Texan. I've encountered plenty of professors who don't know what they're talking about too, I can tell the difference. Since your opinion is obviously tainted by bias, worse bias than mine I think since you called my school a bad name, I'm not going to say any more.

Check the following links for some good Yahoo and ABC News write-ups of the whole Cheney lawsuit deal if you don't know what we're talking about:

-http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ktvt/20001129/lo/residency_questions_for_cheney_second_lawsuit_1.html

-http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20001121_1085.html

Also check this link out for an interesting thing about the election I just discovered tonight. Seems Ted Turner's proposing a run-off. I'll have to reference this next time I have him and the election mess show up in the RP. :)

-http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20001130/pl/election_turner_dc_1.html

Here's something from Hillary. She's nuts IMO. :(
-http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/29/first.lady.florida/index.html

Tipper Gore is even more nuts. <sigh>
-http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/11/tipper.gore.ap/index.html

And here's OJ Simpson's reaction to all this. It's good too.
-http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/30/oj.floridarecount.ap/

That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Robby: Good luck on your finals. I'm rooting for you too. Hope you'll wish Kit and me similar good luck wishes when our finals roll around in about three weeks. <gulps> As for yours, well, don't worry, they'll be over eventually. Then you can get back to the really important stuff- finishing up your TGS work, getting back to your regular posting rate in here, the Ten RPs, etc. Good luck getting it all done soon.

Same luck wishes to you on your finals, Lady Corax.

Later all.
Doug
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:32:39 AM
IP: pool-63.52.171.46.dlls.grid.net

*lain enters, bleary-eyed*

Valentine>> Isn’t it all about the badness? .. :*(

*before having a wee sniffle session, lain bounds into the debate of evil nastiness.. complete with the negative-action chuckle.. mwa hahahahahaha!!!*

If you change the definition to "actions can be evil", then I would agree with it more, though still not completely. I suppose our difference of opinion comes a lot from the fact that I don’t believe in the devil, or a God.
The Checkists?? Well.. do you think they thought what they were doing was evil? The same way the SS thought what they were doing was evil?? I don’t think they would have done what they did if they had truly thought that it was "wrong". And don’t anyone give that "they were following orders" crap cause I will never buy that.
And it was only very recently that rape was officially defined as a "war crime"… so.. maybe it wasn’t all that evil to them, seeing as how rape has historically been part of conquest since the dawn of such things.
Again, I hope you all know I will never condone rape, and I am not trying to excuse anyone from anything. Some actions are better than others. Some actions cause more pain and suffering than others. I don’t believe an action that is positive needs the extra definition of "divinely inspired", nor does a negative action need carry the tag of "demonic".
Differing opinions can be supported or not depending on the facts you may choose to support them. Some facts are more valid than others, some more modern, updated. Some are religious "facts", some are scientific.. The basis for an opinion can certainly be incorrect, but not the opinion itself. You can attack the pillars of someone’s opinion, challenge it and show new facts that may prove your opponent’s opinion outdated, or unsupported. But everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if you think you might know better that them ;)
This is my reason for thinking it’s OK for people to have their own faiths. I might think they are wrong, and I am sure you think I am wrong for not believing, but people have to do what they need to do. Maybe you are right, but then maybe you are wrong to believe. I don’t know. I cannot effectively smash your pillars, just as you cannot effectively break mine. You have your opinion because you believe that the arguments which support that opinion are strong. I disagree, because I think the arguments supporting my opinion are just as strong. And that is the simple reason why people disagree in their opinions.
As for someone torturing a five-year-old.. Yes, that action is very cruel, violent, and hurtful. But I fear the torturer may not think what they were doing was "wrong". Maybe they might think they would be punnishing the child for a wrongdoing, maybe they might think such a horrific thing was "fun", but this person is not "evil". They may be ill and terribly misguided but not "evil". I don’t imagine there would be a situation where you or I would think this was "good" but, unfortunately, *we* and our opinions are not the source of debate here. The person in question would be, I firmly believe, capable of all the actions they persued, and would not be in need of demonic or "evil" inspiration. The person who hurt me was not evil, either. There are lots of people who might want to do very nasty things to him right now, but that is not what I believe in. The actions were hurtful, but cannot be simply shrugged off as "evil". Then they become no longer a human problem.. you see? They become something bigger.. and why give such things the power to be bigger than you? Humans cannot defeat an "evil" being, it is too big a task, "evil" is always craftier and plays dirtier. But even a single human can defeat a negative action, for it is only an action, after all..

*lain crawls into bed, dreading the 8am class full of sight-singing-y nastiness.. now if you want to define "evil" perhaps a better definition would involve forcing poor students with insomnia to get up at such an indecent hour and have to sing a modulating melody at sight in front of a classfull of students..*
love,
lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:27:03 AM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

*Warpmind enters, wearing black robes, carrying a large, wicked-looking dagger, and reading a scroll labeled "Property of Anubis".*
Hi, gang. Considering studying a bit of necromancy - it's disgusting work, but hey, ya gotta love being able to consider death a learning experience, right? ]:)

David G: I didn't say Magneto was good, just that he's got a benevolent streak; he's a tad misguided, since his motive is to ensure the survival of mutants. Unfortunately, he seems to be under the impression that the only way to ascertain that is to wipe out the normies... :| On a slightly different subject, I personally have a good alternative for the word "evil". "Malign". Taste that word; it's an excellent substitute, isn't it? ]:)

Kit: Aw, crud. ;) By the way, I'm *really* considering taking up archery, myself... think you could convince'er to give away a few hints? (I'm planning to acquire a rather plain bow - no fancy aiming equipment; I'd rather train my inner sight than learn to use sniper attachments, for instance...)

Christine: Aw, gee, thanks. You just shot down my eagerness to read. ];)

Ooo, Spike's new naughty fic is up! Labor be damned, I'm going to read! :)

Gunjack Valentine: How you wound up in such company? Well, it seems that few things ever manage to properly disturb you. That, and I percieve a slight xenoph... I'm shut up. ];) Oh, and which part of the teaser was it that got to you; the Gawain or the Brook'n'Banshee bit? ]:) (If you have questions, e-mail me, and I'll answer to the extent of my ability.)

Doug: The book I ordered (along with God Bless the Gargoyles, *grin*) isn't due to arrive before December 11th at the earliest, January 8th at the latest... though, it'd be fun to make the odd enchanted artifact for Christmas. Like a Mace of Sharpness... or a Cape of Concealment (the type that cannot be found when you need it), or any of the many completely worthless magical artifacts foun in one of the lists in SJ Games' "Murphy's Rules"... ]:) As for the show I'm working on, I still haven't even got the pilot completely written, I'm afraid... Still, if I get things as I wish, it'll be fun to see Patric Stewart starring as Lance Lake, the old-timer who gathers the team (okay, who here did NOT get that one?), and a female martial artist with a mental imbalance... and, of course, puns, lots of'em, ranging from bad to terrible... ]:)

Okay, that's taken care of posting... now, off to read naughty fanfic. :)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, December 1, 2000 01:17:23 AM
IP: hume.ti.telenor.net

Spike> Hey, I loved the new story. :)

Robby> Good luck on your finals, man! I'll be rootin' for ya. I've got my finals starting in a week, and only two more weeks of the semester total! Good luck finishing up your semester! :)
Lady Corax
Friday, December 1, 2000 12:00:48 AM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

*Robby comes in and yawns* Man, college finals are a LOT worse than High School ones. Particularly since two of my classes are art related and the final is a 20 hour drawing project... And I can't do the same project for both classes... Ah well... These things are also killing my TGS work time too. I was supposed to be nearly done with the third story I'm writing for this season, and instead I'm still working on number two. Oii... (Oh well, school ends for the semester in like another week, I'll have more time then...) In any event, I just stopped in to make a comment on one lil' thing...

A different word for Kublai Kahn- "Ambitious."

Robby
Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:43:40 PM
IP: spider-tf024.proxy.aol.com

Okay, I've seen this a couple of times and it's driving me nuts- Dick Chaneye <sp?> is not from Texas. This is not where he makes his residence. Yes, I believes he owns property here, and therefore pays a property tax, but he claims residence elsewhere <Iowa, I believe... can't remember off the top of my head...>. That a profesor at the University of Texas would agree with this suit is down-right rediculous. <Believable, though, considering he's from t.u. ;)>

Sorry for the outburst, but I had to vent. If someone is going to make accusations, they should at least be factually correct.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:07:02 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Begin Second Part!!

Kirshanta: Welcome! Glad you've been enjoying our room so long and have finally gotten up the courage to come out of lurking. Hope you enjoy it now, we'll do our best to make it so. <handshake>

**BUFFY, ANGEL SPOILERS**
Liked both episodes this week once again. :) Buffy had some nice development on Buffy and Joyce, particularly in their conversation about Dawn near the end. Liked the development on Dawn too, wonder if she'll ever find out what she is and how she'll deal with it. Be interesting to watch that. <grin> Good acting also from Kristine Sutherland throughout the Joyce-going-crazy bits, which were written quite well. Liked the creepy space demon, although the history behind the monster was IMO much cooler than the creature itself. Good fights in the episode too, and I enjoyed what was done with Xander, Anya, Giles, Tara, and Willow. Especially enjoyed the nice dialogue in the talks about stars. The development on Riley worries me, if he's going off the deep end it is definitely not good. Even worse that he may be getting back together with the government- I can hardly wait to see how he explains to Buffy having called in the Rangers to storm her house. Good development on him though, liked the confrontation with Spike in this ep. Spike's confrontation with Buffy was also entertaining, I wonder when she's going to find out about his crush. <grin> The revelation of Ben having a connection to Glory is also definitely intriguing, hope that is explored more next new episode. All in all, great ep with very well-written and intriguing plot and developments. The anticipation of what happens next had better be enough for me to wait however long we have to. :)

Angel had some very good character developments too, on Darla especially. The scene of her singing was great and indeed heart-stopping as the Demon Karaoke-Man said. :) Also liked her talks with Angel and her growth as the show's plot progressed. The response to the terminal illness was nice too, I liked the originality of it and Darla's attempts to first dodge it, and then accept it. Very good acting from Julie Benz. Nice acting from Boreanz too, Angel had great development in this one. Especially during the tests, which were quite entertaining if predictable. The butler who administered them made a great comic character, his performance entertained me a lot. Good writing on the tests and the dialogue surrounding them too, especially in the resolution of things, with Darla already living her second chance. Also good dialogue bits from Wesley, Gunn, and Cordelia in response to the whole Darla problem. Wish we'd seen a little more Gunn, but oh well. <shrugs> Also liked the well-done intriguing flashbacks, and the continuing villainous development of Wolfram & Hart. Them having Drusilla show up and change Darla back into a vampire at the end came as a shock to me, but that was the intent. Can't wait to see how that develops, I have a feeling Darla may not come back as quite the same vampire this time around. It'll be interesting to see how she does come back. <grin> I also have an idea about Wolfram & Hart's true motives thanks to this episode- that vampire hunter Angel mentioned in the flashbacks, Holtz, is either still around or his family are the Canmores of the vampire world. Some Mr. or Ms. Holtz is still gunning for Angel, want to do what they or their ancestor failed to do all those years ago. But since they're insane paladin types, they can't stomach killing Angel if he's doing good and helping people. Therefore they've hired Wolfram & Hart to turn him dark again so they can kill him without any moral problem. Definitely sounds like an intriguing idea, no? I doubt if it's true, we'll see. For now, I will enjoy watching my tape of this week's excellent episode and the reruns they show in the next two or three weeks as I wait for the next new season installment. <grin>
**THESE SPOILERS END**

Todd: I like X-Men Evolution for much the same reasons you do, the fact that they're making the story clear and understandable especially. I stopped reading the comics when they stopped doing that there. <sigh> Good crossover idea, too bad someone kinda had it already. Re-read my story Slayer Senshi, and you'll see what I mean.

Kyryn: Recycled Books and Records is a one-shot? Rats, I was interested in checking it out too. :( Oh well. Maybe Kit and I'll get the time to visit Denton someday and I can definitely look it up then. We'll look you and your family up too of course. :)

Niamhgold: Ah yes, Black Friday. <grins> I had to work on that day. It was in the afternoon, thankfully, when things weren't so bad. I did hear from Blake Moore and Mike Hernandez (two other great officers at our company who also got raises this past week), who had worked the same store that morning, that traffic was highest they'd ever seen it, with lines going off the property, cars parking everywhere from the fire lane to the street, and at least four fights breaking out that they had to deal with. It all ended by 2:00, and the extra officer called to be on duty- Mike- was sent home, that was before my shift. Still the very fact that it happened… May I never have to deal with such madness myself. <fingers crossed> Hope you do well on those final projects you're soon handing in.

Lynati: Sorry to hear about your stories getting lost, that bites. Hope you can get them back, Firestorm should be able to help. Good luck to you both. :) I too am wondering about the red band, maybe just because I'm a guy.

David G: Hope you get well soon, my condolences on the illness. Hope it's nothing too bad like you suspect, I recommend you keep that appointment just in case. Forgive me if I don't touch the topic of Demona being evil or not. The answer to a question like that really depends on one's opinion and point of view, and I don't feel like stating mine only to have it contested by some and agreed with by others if you know what I mean. Enough to talk about as it is. <grin> Though you, Todd, and Courtney have started my feelings on the subject pretty well, I'll give you that. :)

Gside: That rumor about Amazons disturbs me too. <shivers> Hope it's not true. Thank goodness it also disturbs Shauna, so she'll never think of doing it, even if she is a major archery fanatic. (Breast cancer does unfortunately run in her family though. Maybe in thirty years or so, she won't have a choice. <frowns>)

Spike: Augh, your naughty story's out too? Something else I gotta take a look at, hope I soon get the time. Will try to make it tonight. :) Thanks for letting us know the tale was up.

That wraps it up for tonight, I guess. Very few movies coming out here this weekend, so no reviews. Will definitely do one of Dungeons and Dragons after I see it next week, though. In the meantime, I have some end-of-semester school stuff to do, work this weekend, fanfic to read, and games to play if I get the time. Hope I can do it all. Good luck wishes to everyone, and later.

**RESUME RP ACTION, RAVENS' SAGA**

"What the hell was that wailing noise, Nick?!" a voice around the corner is shouting as Doug, Kit, and Anthony stand ready for the sounds of footsteps and squeaking tires approaching them. "I don't know, Chris," a second voice answers. "But we gotta get out of here! Forget that prick guard the pastor said he'd help us get, I don't want to face what's making that wailing!" "Us either, man!" a third voice agrees, and several more chorus assent. "More of your friends, I guess," Kit says as the group rounds the corner, and Doug nods, grimacing as the group of enemies stop and gasp. There are ten in all, four dressed in the uniforms of WalMart stockmen and pushing squeaky shopping carts, while the other six have on white and gray street clothes, and one is slowly driving an old white Chrysler. "The Vayas Comos Ninjas!" Kit blurts out when she sees the latter group. "I though we exterminated you!" "You put seven of us in jail back in Austin!" the driver corrects her. "That ain't all!" "Yeah!!" the others chorus, banging their fists together and drawing clubs or knives. "We took down the entire bunch in this dimension, didn't we?" Doug asks Kit, who nods. "Your memory must be getting better." "A little," he smiles. "Still don't remember these guys, though." "You forget everyone you call lazy snobs, you prick?" Stockman Nick snaps. "Everyone who bugs you and your fellow guards out of fun and nothing more?" Stockman Chris choruses. "Everyone you tattle on to the manager and get fired for lazing about on the job?" Nick adds, the other two stockmen chiming in with chuckles and growls. Doug shrugs. "I guess so." "Prick!" Chris shouts, pushing his cart straight at Doug, who dodges it with ease and fires his gun as he moves aside, putting Chris on the ground bleeding heavily as he screams. "I was nice to you sometimes! Yeah, I hated you, but only when Nick provoked me was I mean! Jerk! Loser!" "You're going down for killing my best friend, punk!" Nick forces Doug to ignore the cries, pushing his cart at the Ravens' leader along with the other two stockmen, both of whom Doug quickly eliminates with gunfire as he dodges the carts. They continue laughing and yelling insults at him until they are knocked down to the ground. The Vayas Comos Ninjas meanwhile scream loudly and charge at Kit and Anthony, who break and run to dodge them. The two youngest jump over a merchandise display with great ease to get at Anthony, who drives them back with quick shots from his .45. Nearby Kit leaps onto the Chrysler's hood and shatters its windshield with a laser blast, killing the driver as well. The passenger jumps out of the car and starts limping away, but Kit guns him down from behind just in case he's going for reinforcements, then spins to take on the others. Doug gives her a quick glance, all he has time for before Nick tackles him. "Okay prick!" the jerk screams, drawing a box-cutter. "Time to die!" Doug growls, throws him off, and then fires a burst of plasma into Nick as he hits the ground and another as he gets up cursing. The jerk collapses and dies with a whimper. "I prefer the term smartass," Doug growls at his body, turning back to Kit and Anthony just in time to see the last of the VCNs put down. "That all of them?" "I think so," Anthony says. "You guys okay?" "Fine," Kit replies, Doug nodding. "Something tells me we should really run check on that wailing. I think it came from upstairs." "Let's go," Doug says, shaking his head at the dead stockmen one last time as he and the other two Ravens run for a nearby set of stairs.

The display changes to Camp Snoopy's central second floor court, where Boris and Elena are continuing to administer first aid to Keith as he gulps and chokes out blood. "Who do you suppose that woman is?" Boris asks, sparing one look towards Winter Blade as she and War Frost continue to fight off the Black Spirals nearby. "I don't know," Elena answers. "But she's keeping those weird wolf-creatures busy, and that's a good thing. That wail she did frightened me, I hope she's on our side." "Frightened me too," Boris agrees, pouring a healing potion down Keith's throat. "The sword hit him just to the left of the heart right between the lungs, then cut down and straight out. He's bleeding heavily externally and internally. Where in God's name is Orion?" "Keep God on our side, Bore!" Orion shouts suddenly, running up and coming to a stop with a gasp. "Oh my…" "Goddess!" Tanith completes, stopping at his side along with Lathrop, her mouth falling open as she sees Keith's wound. "You say a sword did that?" Orion asks Lathrop, who nods. "Stephanie. She's had a Dark Quickening." "Fantastic," Orion grimaces, taking out a syringe full of holy water and kneeling at Keith's side as the Ravens' ninja moans in shock and extreme pain. "Everyone get back!" "Who are you?" Elena frowns at Tanith as she and Boris move away from Orion, who begins his most powerful spell of healing after injecting the syringe into Keith's heart. "Tanith Rogers," the Wicca explains her presence. "One of the demons who came here brought me along to tempt Orion into despair. He failed." "She was possessed by a demon," Orion fills them in further, moving back now that his casting is completed and the spell is taking effect. "I fought and banished it. That is what happened, right?" he asks Tanith. "You were possessed? That thing wasn't you?" "Not all of it," Tanith grimly replies, turning away from him with a frown. "Why ask me that anyway? Didn't you say you had faith back there that it wasn't me?" "I did," Orion replies, grimacing. "I still do. I just wanted to…" "Shut up," Tanith interrupts, glaring at him. The cleric nods and does so, looking at the ground with a sigh. "Orion having a lover's quarrel with someone," Elena mutters to Boris. "Now I've seen everything." The big man nods, looking at Lathrop. "Thanks for finding them. Orion, is Keith…" "He should be fine," Orion says, coming out of his funk and turning back to the ninja, who is now peacefully passed out and no longer bleeding or coughing. "I healed everything." "Just to make sure," Tanith steps around him, kneeling at Keith's side and then touching his scalp and a nearby patch of earth. After a moment of meditation, she looks up and nods. "No physical injuries, he just needs a few minutes' rest to recover from the shock. His mind, though, troubles me." "I can't do anything about that," Orion frowns. "Lathrop?" "We'll need Tricia," the wizard answers. "Or Kit. You suppose they survived the effects of that Quickening?" "I'm sure of it," Elena says. "Let's go find them." "Yeah," Boris agrees, grabbing his backpack and slipping it on. "Uh, we can move Keith, right?" "Should be okay," Orion says. "First though, we better check her out." He points at Winter Blade. "Is she friend or foe?" "Maybe we should ask," Tanith says with a note of anger. "Good idea," Lathrop agrees as Orion nods. "Let's do so." "First we better help her make sure those wolf-things don't get any friskier," Elena says, slamming a fresh clip into her rifle. The others nod and reach for their weapons with the exception of Tanith, who stays beside the unconscious Keith as the screen goes blank.

**END RP**
Doug - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:39:01 PM
IP: pool-63.52.168.244.dlls.grid.net

**RP HERE, CONTINUING THE LATEST ELECTION FIASCO**

In his office in Atlanta, Ted Turner is yelling angrily into one of his many phones. "What do you mean you just found out your 'Empowered Womyn Scouts' set fire to an oil pipeline in Nigeria and two apartment complexes in Austin, Texas instead of the vote counting offices in Tallahassee? I thought you'd trained them better than that!" "I was trying to maintain a high level of security, Theodore," Geraldine Laybourne sighs. "I don't trust some of my EWS that much yet. They didn't know where they were going, the pilots who took them and the people who briefed them once they were on site did, but they were mostly men, and they apparently knew what we were up to and wanted us to fail. They were all executed by Marchioness du Sade this morning." "Good," Turner mutters. "At least you eliminated the weak links. By now it's too late for us to try destroying the recount records. We'll have to hope Al lucks out in the upcoming legal battle. He's not giving up easily, I'll give him that." "You know, I heard something very disturbing when I talked to his wife this morning," Laybourne replies, her voice carrying a grimace. "It seems Al has a crazy plan to kill George W. Bush and therefore win the election by default. He's actually plotting to go through with it too." "What?" Turner's eyes widen. "That's crazy!" He pauses. "Or maybe it's so crazy it will actually work. Who knows? Hmm." "Surely you can't be thinking…" Laybourne starts to respond, but Turner cuts her off. "Let's see if Al can pull this off, Geraldine. We won't interfere. Tell Marchioness du Sade I said hi, and ask her how her son Jesus is doing in prison. I'd like to know." "He was fine last I heard," Laybourne says. "Remember his parties well, hmm?" "Yep," Turner chuckles. "Thank goodness we missed the last one that preacher and the Grail's last All-Father ruined. Talk to you later." He hangs up and then turns to the door as it opens to admit Steve Case. "The hackers I had break in to the election vote-counting system are downstairs, Ted," the CEO of AO-Hell sighs. "I have them all restrained as you specified. I really beg you to reconsider this, though. These people are all some of the best and most unscrupulous in the business. The best, Tiny Malone, is also quite physically formidable…" "You can bring him back as a zombie if you want, Steve," Turner interrupts. "Lord Gothmenes demands sacrifice, and for their failure to properly rig the Presidential Election, your hackers have been chosen." "But they delayed it to enable this recount legal battle that's going on now!" Case protests. "It was the best they could do!" "In this case it wasn't good enough," Turner grins, his eyes flashing demonic red as he stands up. "Any news from Geoffrey?" "Not yet, Ted," Case gulps. "I passed by his office on the way here, he was still briefing the team." "He better hurry up," Turner sighs. "Come, friend. We have a sacrifice to attend to." "Yes," Case nods with a sigh, and follows his demonic associate out.

The display changes to the Middle East, where the large military truck containing Gubio, Bessus, Queen Noor, Mist, Erin, Fasil, Hassan, and Sarita has just split off from the rest of the vehicle convoy that has now massed a few hundred yards from the gatehouse to Abdullah's estate, whose guards are staring at it in shock as the soldiers drill in preparation. "Are you sure you're up to this?" Hassan asks his girlfriend, who chuckles. "Shouldn't I be asking you that?" she asks, eyeing the huge scimitar slung across his back. "When was the last time you even took that thing off your wall?" "I lift weights, and I've been sharpening it every day," Hassan mutters, crossing his arms and turning away. "You've probably been keeping your knives in worse condition." "A butcher shop makes a better sharpening tool than a whetstone any day," Sarita replies, testing the edge of one of her blades on the side of the truck and smiling as it punches right through. "See?" "Whatever," Hassan growls. "I know you too well, Hassan," Sarita smiles. "When you expect a battle, you go in hopeful. Once it comes, you whimper in fear. I often wonder why I still date you." "Do not insult my son if you hope to marry him," Fasil advises her, provoking Sarita to exchange a smile with him as Hassan shoots her a glare. Mist meows worriedly as she observes the exchange. "Don't worry," Erin says. "They're usually like this. On the good days anyhow." "Something tells me I don't want to see the bad days," Gubio mutters, then looks at Bessus. "You haven't said a single word since we started driving. This how you get prepped for intense combat?" Bessus nods. "And you obviously talk a lot," Queen Noor says. Gubio shrugs. "Guess it's cause I'm more used to hacker's duels than actual battles, at least I was before my friends and I started going after Thailog. Lots of chatting in those." "I noticed in the one we won last night," Erin says. "You think the guy we defeated will be in the mansion?" "I hope so," Gubio shrugs. "It's possible." He turns toward the driver. "How long till the canyon?!" "Twenty minutes." "Great," Gubio sighs, leaning back. "Long wait." "Just long enough for me to field-strip," Erin chuckles in response, beginning to check and her gun as the vehicle drives on. Back at the convoy, Andrea Grey exchanges thumbs-up with Ivan and Aussie as their Super Apache lifts off and starts flying towards the small gang of troops staring at them. "Alright, Aces," Andrea tells the pilots over the radio. "Your wingman is already in the air…" "Wing-dragon!" Lloky snaps over her own radio, which is attached to her head with an extra large piece of wire as she flies over a large expanse of poppies not far away, causing the field workers to scream and run. "Wing-dragon, sorry," Andrea corrects herself. "She's doing her part. You probably won't need to assist her, but keep an eye out just in case. Your first objective is to hit the gate, open a hole for our troops to stream in past the perimeter fence. Then find and destroy their radar station." "Our artillery has already targeted their fuel depot," General Earle adds from where he stands with a platoon of MLRS several miles away. "They will open fire on your command." "Understood," Ivan says. "Then they are to reload and hit the ammo depot, just like we did against the KPA in the DMZ a few years ago." "That was a good operation," Aussie remarks with a smile. "Too bad the STRIKE Warrior project we were working on during it never got off the ground." "We've always been suited better to choppers, Aussie," Earle replies. "I needed a budget update to remind me of that." "This is Terrell," a voice speaks up over the ensuing laughter. "I have moved my men into the tunnel beneath their main drug processing facility. We're ready. These gas masks you gave us are working great at keeping out the drug fumes. What's so funny?" "Nothing, my caiveh friend," Earle answers. "Begin your attack." "Yes sir," Terrell says. "That goes for everyone!" Earle shouts. There is a chorus of acknowledgement from the STRIKE team and Lloky, who begins spitting fire into the poppy fields below her and panicking the workers even more. Ivan meanwhile fires a Hellfire missile straight into the gatehouse below his chopper, causing its guards to drop their jaws seconds before all but two are obliterated by the blast. "Now!" Colonel Amad shouts, and his men rush forward, weapons blazing. King Abdullah II smiles from where he sits in the middle of the group atop a jeep's machine-gun turret, rallying his men as they rush by. Seconds later, MLRS artillery shells start to arc through the air above the soldiers' heads and it is clear to all that their attack has begun.

**TO BE CONTINUED- END RP**

Hi everyone. How are things going? Like Kit said a couple days ago, my job situation has been in hot water again lately. I'm surprised nobody else has said anything about it this time around- guess you're all numb to it by now, huh? :) I'm not quite that way yet myself. Things have calmed down by now, thankfully, and a couple of new officers who are both real good are keeping us in the black. Good news too- Abel handed out four raises last week, so four of us are now making $7.50 an hour instead of $7.00. Guess who's one of the four very deserving officers? <grins widely> Yep, me. And I only found out Tuesday night when he casually mentioned it too- I have got to start looking at the rate on my paycheck as well as the total amount. :) So things are getting better. Thanks to everyone who has sent their encouragement along the way. School is almost over too. One more week of classes, graduation ceremony, exams, and I'm done! <smiles> By the way, the ceremony is next Friday in the Frank Erwin Center off of IH-35 here in Austin, starting at 6:00 pm. Any of you who want to make the journey is of course invited to attend- you might even meet Kit and me if you do. We're looking forward to the ceremony ourselves and have invited our families, of course. :)

SOROW: You'd visit us too if you could get out of your hometown, I hope. :) Nice view on sex, I too share it. <grin> Congrats on doing somewhat good on the ACT, that's about how I did too. And how most people do. :)

Archwolf: You're welcome on the well-wishes, I was glad to give them. Glad you're still fencing, hope you're enjoying it too. Good luck from this future cop on solving that possible coach corruption deal, if that's what you want to do. Thanks for the encouragement to Kit and me, and I also wish your sister congratulations on the upcoming marriage. Hope the path to it becomes less rocky and more joyful soon. Kristen and Mitch appreciate your congrats. :) $ Hope the RP below fits in well with your plans. We'll do one with our characters saving yours from the Black Spirals if necessary, or you can do it yourself. Just please let us know. :) $ My sympathies on your family troubles, my mom tried to do the same thing to me back in high school when I was getting online. Thank god for college where you can do it with no worries! :)

GXB: I agree with you about Magneto, especially in the X-Men movie. He and Demona are both great complex villains, ranking among the greatest IMO. I too hope that the new X-Men cartoon doesn't ruin things, although something does make me wonder- neither appearance of Magneto so far has shown us his face. They haven't used his name either. In fact, the last time 'Magneto' looked like he does in it was in the comics when Xavier and Magneto combined into Onslaught. Maybe it's that dread destroyer who's the enemy in the show and not Magneto? Only he's in Magneto's body instead of Xavier's? Something to wonder about. It might make a lot of sense too. Hmm. We shall see. I agree with Todd they probably won't make Magneto a mere cliched villain, whatever they do. Thanks for giving Todd the info on Gyrich and Creed.

Lady Corax: Empress of America. :) I like that title. Give me your stances on some issues, and if I like them, as I probably will, you definitely have my support.

Lain: Sorry about your fish dying, hope the next one lives longer. Also sorry to hear you've been witnessing a lot of car accidents lately. That's unfortunate, especially the accident part. <grin> Hope that the trend soon eases, good luck. I will be continuing to pray for the emotional trauma you and the other witnesses to them have suffered, and that of the victims and their families as well (the victims' physical trauma too of course :).

SJ: I agree with you about the election, it's disgusting me too. Having Gore go after Bush in the RP and try to settle things man-to-man makes things a little easier, though. <grin> Hope that the whole mess ends soon, though I doubt it will. <sigh> Hope you go see Unbreakable also, that movie is definitely not worth the cold shoulder from a big well-written emotional action fan like yourself. Nor is the spoiler enough to experience it. I have seen it and I promise you it is nothing like Sixth Sense. Far better, in fact. You can trust me on that. :) Thanks for letting me know of Pistoff's latest being out, I'll read it soon as I get the chance.

X-Files: Not much said about this week's new episode, I noticed. <shrugs> That's okay, it really wasn't much of an ep. The story felt like it had been done already and thus stale, though there was good acting on the part of our heroes and nice mystery and fright potential in the script. Good character development on Doggett and Scully too. Yet it strangely just wasn't enough to make the episode totally entertaining, though it was on its own. <sigh> Hope that this Monster-of-the-Week stint winds up soon, and we can get back to Mythology eps. Maybe next week.

Katara: Welcome back! Been missing you. Good to see you again, congrats on the back feeling better. Hope it continues. Thanks for the comprehensive well-wishes to everyone in here, including me and Kit.

Gunjack: You make good points about the election too. Hope it ends soon. Or at least the business about whether or not Bush can keep Cheney as VP because he's also a Texas resident should end soon. That part is particularly driving me nuts, maybe it's just because one of my favorite professors here at UT agrees with the suit. <shrugs> And I kinda do too, I guess. I hope even more that we get a winner soon. We shall see. :) Thanks for telling me the bad news about RPG Maker. Oh well. At least I have a copy of it now, and will soon get to start making my own games. Must find time. :)

Warpmind: Yep, things are cooling down in Kosovo. Though that Slob Milosevic guy is still making a pest of himself, so maybe they could flare up again. God knows. <sigh> Glad that the jerk who attacked you is being sent away. Good choices of writers for your show, hope I get to see it someday. Don't play around with that book on making magical artifacts too much now. :)

Daphne: Sorry to hear about the school essay problem, good luck getting things fixed so you'll get the grade you deserve. Kit and I will be praying. Taleweaver and Mandi have both mentioned good ideas.

Mary: Sorry to hear about your sister doing yet another stupid thing. Thank God I'm not the only one who would raise hell and high water in my family if my beloved sister or one of the cousins ever did anything like that, and they are smart enough to want to avoid it. <grins> Sorry, had to say that. Hope that she soon is able to reconsider and realize there are better ways of expressing herself than what she's done, and gets the piercing removed. I wish her luck in that, and you and your family more luck in dealing with the anger resulting from the act of course. :)

Christine: Your book's gone out of print? Ack! Sorry to hear that. It's undeserved, of course. <sighs> Hope that you can show them up by selling a lot of copies on your own. Good luck. Kit and I have been trying to get our local game store owner to contact Sabledrake Enterprises for a few copies, but money has been too tight lately for him to pick up a 'relatively unknown new merchandise line', or so he says. Things have been improving, though- maybe we'll ask him again. <shrugs> We do have a few extra copies of the books lying around to loan if necessary. :) Good luck with the next book and the next fanfic, hope they're out soon. Good luck with those riots too, you have my sympathies about not going to work while they're on.

Mandi: Good to see you again too. Congrats on finally getting that site overhauled. Checked it out a couple nights ago, and it looks like you did some great hard work. :)

End Part 1 of Posting!!
Doug - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:38:16 PM
IP: pool-63.52.168.244.dlls.grid.net

Famous Khans > Don't forget about Khan Noonien Singh. Or the brand of hotdogs. (The former is evil, the latter is good with stadium mustard.)

Black-market toilets > I wonder if a study has been done yet to see if we're REALLY saving any water by using the "low flush" models, or if having to flush them more often for fear that they don't have the "muscle" the old ones did is just wasting MORE water.
Patrick Toman
Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:36:44 PM
IP: aca11e04.ipt.aol.com

Just popping in to say hi. I got my ACT scores in the mail today and I did "not great but not bad." And I bought a really expensive gargoyle statue at the mall. And he's just sooooo cute in my collection :) Take it easy, I'm in a good mood!
SOROW
Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:19:32 PM
IP: a010-0304.dll2.splitrock.net

Gunjack- I was under the impression that Kublai was a nice guy> Nope, not particularly. Nicer than Ghengiz certainly, but is that really saying much? Mostly he was more enlightened <educated, Entity?> but still held with the ways of the Mongles like his Father and Grandfather. Maybe evil is to strong a word for Kublai, but I can't think of one that works better.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 30, 2000 09:51:16 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

What an absolutly lousy day. And tomorrow I get to go to the doctor and get told that he can't do anything for me, since I think what I made the apointment for is, in fact, not the flu (which is what I thought I had) but instead a reaction to taking nose spray when my 12 hour cold pills hadn't worn off.

Then again, I'm getting a sore throat, so maybe the trip won't be a total waste. I don't know. Maybe I'll just cancel the appointment.

Anyway, on to the debate:
Lain> Azrael got close, but I don't think he got it right. You say that everybody has the potential to do harm, and therefore we're all the same?

I disagree. I think that potential is what makes us either good or evil. I have the ability to be exceptionally cruel, to hurt people terribly. Most of the time I manage to overcome the desire to do it. That makes me different than anyone who doesn't master similar urges.

I think that consistantly choosing to cause harm makes a person evil. It doesn't matter how someone justifies what they do. The crusaders (particularly near the end) were evil even though they told themselves that they were doing "god's work."

On the other hand, I think you're a very nice person. I admire your compasionate nature. If I was more like you, I'd probably be less bitter than I am. I admire your viewpoint even though I can't agree with it.

Demona stuff> Here's why I chose to label the Animated Series Demona as evil:
- Cowardice - she consistantly avoids conflicts if she's not sure she can win
- Disloyalty - she betrays everyone who ever trusts her at all: the clan, the Archimage, MacBeth, Goliath, Xanatos. The only people she never betrayed are people who betrayed her first.
- Dishonor - she's a sneaky, vindictive b!tch. (and I love her for it)
- Vengance - Justice is one thing. Genocide is another.
- Irresponsibility - This is the killer for me. Responsibility is my big thing. Refusal to accept the blame when it is rightfully yours is pathetic.

Demona's ultimate flaws stem from a lack of strength of character. She's always looking for the easy way out, rather than facing challenges directly. In most moral problems, the hardest choice is the right one. However, her lack of fortitude alone wouldn't make her evil, just pathetic. What makes her truly evil is her strength of will. She has enormous desire for power, and the intelligence to achieve it. With that power, her potential to cause harm is vastly increased. Then, since she's always looking out for herself, and never willing to accept the consequences of her choices, she becomes a force of evil.

In many ways, Demona is a dark mirror for Goliath (probably intentionally). The fact that he faced the same things she did and DIDN'T make the same choices proves that she COULD have made different choices than she did.

He didn't go after more power than he could handle (except for a brief flirtation with the Eye of Odin...). He didn't let the humans sour his spirit. He kept up with his responsibilites (except for abandoning the rookery, and even then he made sure someone would look after the eggs). He accepted the consequences of his mistakes, making ammends to Renyard for Sky Fortress 1.

At every step, he could have become at least as terrible as Demona (the Phoenix Gate could have even made him kind of immortal), but he didn't.

If we can't call her evil, we can't call him good.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Thursday, November 30, 2000 09:47:56 PM
IP: 198.215.20.204

I started on my new book today: Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not a Christian". Since I was under the impression that he was something of a "big name" in the athiest community, I was expecting a penetrating critique of Christian belief on multiple levels.
What I got was pathetic.
Can *anyone* point me toward a critique of Christianity that was actually written by someone with a functioning brain? ; P

On to replies...

Lain><<Well maybe not tonight, I HAVE to try and get some sleep before I faint.>> Sleep is good. I wish *I* could get some... : P <> Does the question have to do with the bad stuff? : (

Gside><<I've heard it helps to lop the right one off (amazon = a- mazon = without breast).>> o_O ...Wow. That puts a whole new spin on things! I'll never be able to look at those old D&D books the same way again... ; ) <<What happened, did I suddenly become a shapeshifter? It was David G who put forth the debate topic.>> It happens... : P
<<You would think that, wouldn't you?>> It's a result of too much training; I see the whole world through a gunsight. *shrugs* ...It *does* make life more interesting, though... <<Uma? Doing Botticelli? Or was it all the Death stuff?>> Heck, it'd be easier to identify the NON-disturbing parts... If I could remember any! O_O ...Death was pretty disturbing, and so was the whole "man on the moon" bit. And the Turkish(?) king. And the giant fish. Maybe it was just that the whole movie operated on the same wavelength as my dreams...
<<Just so you know, the Micro doesn't mean small, it stands for microwave.>> Link. Now. ; ) <<My brains, his steel and your strength against sixty men and you think a little head jiggle is supposed to make me happy? Hmm??>> I am the Dread Pirate Roberts! There will be no survivors!
<<Why? Today's has already been out for 23 hours or so (as of your posting time). Unless you're looking for rants.>> I was busy playing "Shadowrun" all day... : P

Warpmind><<*Glances at Christine, Mara, Wilek, SJ, Gunjack, et cetera.*>> How'd I ever end up in such august company!? *Innocently kicks the squirming bodybag further under his desk* <<*FANFIC TEASER*>> *Reads the teaser, and then stares openmouthed at it's creator* ...I was really looking forward to some constructive work getting done in the near future. And now, thanks to you, I've got to start reading a whole *series*... ; )
<<Hmmm... the "Infinite Monkeys" project is nothing like *that*...>> Sure it does. You're just reinforcing one of the correlaries: the fact that with removal of the infinites, the quality of the work drops. Drasticly. ; ) <<Oh, and yes, I've played Curse of Monkey Island; ever failed to open the umbrella at Skull Island?>> Guybrush really bounces well for such a skinny guy...
"you need... A WHOLE LOT of money."

David G><<In TGS she's pretty much reformed. I accept that, even if I think it was too easy.>> It's "too easy" only because we've seen such a small fraction of her life. And besides, the re-emergence of her "family" after a thousand years of seperation and hate is a pretty big kicker... <<..."DEMONA'S NOT EVIL SINCE SHE'S MY FAVORITE CHARACTER!!! AND YOU'RE STUPID!!!!">> I think we've pretty much stamped out that sort of thing for the near future... *crosses fingers*
<> My bad, sorry...

"Your Creamy Coolness"><> But it's because we're so... superior! ; ) <<and tho I do agree the US is a great country to live in compared to others, its no utopia either and it could handel some improvements quite nicely.>> Seriously, I would put forward that Utopias (by definition) don't exist, and when you look at the whole picture America's got it together better than anyone else...
<<Well, to put it simply dear, cuz its none of our dang buisness.>> Then who's dang business is it? Is it just Castro's dang business if he wants to run a dictatorship ninety miles off the coast of the biggest "free" country in the world? And do all those nifty "God-given" and "Unalienable" rights only count if you're inside our borders? *soapbox collapses under the weight of a swollen ego* ...Sorry, but I'm a die-hard interventionist. At the core, it seems wrong to say we believe in freedom, and then refuse to put an end to injustice so close to home...
<<lol naw, I dont drink cofee, but I AM a music addict :p>> What's your poisen? : ) <<I've laid off the powdered jello and sugar in general for the time being :P>> Probably a good idea. You ever read the "Chocolate frosted sugar bombs" strips in Calvin & Hobbes? ; ) <<lol Whatta ya mean Can I say that?! I dont get it! I'm confuzled O_o>> Evidence of a miss-spent youth... pay it no mind. : )

Christine><> *cracks up* ...This works on so many levels! 8D

Taleweaver><<Where does the evil lie? In the hand that cast the blow or the mind that conceives that thought.>> Both. If I order someone to kill an innocent, we BOTH are responsible; the minion for commiting the crime, and myself for causing the crime to be commited.

Lynati><<and I remember thinking, "it doesn't matter how "sweet" that was; I doubt a merc girl like that would agree to date that gut in the real world"... or something. Heh.>> Anti-romantic. *blows a raspberry* ...And besides, it was a FBI/Secret service girl, not a merc.
*reads the zip bit* ...SUCK! O_O ...Unfortunately, I know nothing about zip disks... : (

****Good And Evil****
And since I'll be using the term *whith relish* (enjoyment and/or diced pickles), I thought I'd better add a deffinition.
Chekist: 1) A member of the Cheka, the "secret police" that robbed, raped, tortured, and murdered tens of millions of innocent Russians under Lenin, Stalin, and Kruschev. Roughly equal to the SS in terms of sadism, they operated for far longer and on a much larger scale.
2) Any person willing to reject all truth, logic, and humanity in favor of "ideology".
In either case, "Chekist" is usually followed (for good reason) with "Bastard".

Lain><<(the debate that IS evil??)>> Good name. And an evil pun... ; )
...tell me if you think a human that has had seven weeks to form, that is not born, has a soul?>> Until someone gives me a more logical point for "infusion" than conception, I'll say yes. <<And if so, what happens if it dies?>> Ignoring the idea of "original sin" for the moment, I'd say Heaven happens. <> Good point. Suppose we changed the statement to "People can act evilly". Would you agree with that statement?
<<There are many people who act well, but that doesn't mean they are any more special or deserving of praise than any of the rest of us.>> I disagree. If we think that one action is more beneficial than another, should we not praise the better action, in an effort to point out a good example to others? ...And by extension, shouldn't we punish a BAD example to discourage others from following it?
<<Who is right? Well, it depends on which side you're on, doesn't it?>> Wow, hold on a second. You're saying that our cause in WWII was no more just than the Nazi's? o_O
<<They think they are right, and their opinion cannot be denied. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how any might disagree.>> Granted. But if you don't believe that ANY of those opinions are actually Right or Wrong, why do you oppose some and support others?
<<But circumstances can often play a large role in "good" and "bad", and "evil".>> The whole reason for using Chekists as an example is that there are NO circumstances that could justify what they did...
<<No one thing can be so concretely defined as being "good" or "evil" because there is always a situation where such a rigid definition can be called into question.>> Let's see if this is true.
Action: The torture of a five-year-old child totally incapable of harming anyone in any way.
If your statement is true, then there must be a situation where this would be a "good" thing. Personaly, I can't think of one...
<<Do you think that "good" and "evil" would really exist if there were not human minds to conjure such things?>> Since I believe in both God and Lucifer, yes.

Azreal><<so they can enter heaven on their own merits <or would that be lack of faults?>.>> Probably the latter... Good post, by the way! : ) <<The Khans <Ghengis, Kublai, ect.>: Evil...>> I was under the impression that Kublai was a nice guy... o_O
<<We do not label people evil to seperate them from us, we label them evil because they seperated themselves from us.>> Excellent distinction! : )

Entity - Good to see you back. Is RL getting in the way? o_O ...a few responses, if you're not too busy...
<<A "clubhouse," if you will. If a drug dealer wants to deal drugs and disobey a clubhouse rule, he doesn't have to belong to our clubhouse.>> Following that logic, why don't we simply deport criminals instead of imprisoning them? A semantic point, I'm sure, but still an interesting one. Maybe we should revuive the prison colony idea...
<<Personally, I don't believe in Good and Evil. I believe in Education and Ignorance.>> Define "education" and "ignorance". Are you saying that, all else being equal, a person who has attended college for four years is less likely to break the law than one who has attended for three?

DPH><<So what do you call someone is not out to destroy AND not out to help?>> Sins of ommision...
****End Good/Evil****

Three goodies with one link! Christmas is coming up, so clicky to see what's heading my wish list this year. In case you're wondering, I want the "Teddy Roosevelt" edition...
And while you're over there, check out the pic o' the week to see my *other* wish-list entry, and on the "Star Wars" link for a Complete Waste of Time... 8D

Peace, Love, Dope!
Gunjack Valentine - [Comes with a ninja sword and Moral Outrage!]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 09:41:32 PM
IP: 209-223-253-79.ausa.net

Lynati: Oh yeah! Most importantly...

DO NOT WRITE *ANYTHING* TO THE DISK OR ALL INFO *WILL* BE LOST!
Fire Storm
Thursday, November 30, 2000 08:52:36 PM
IP: 1cust5.tnt6.det3.da.uu.net

Lynati: <Zip Disk>
Hell, at the VERY worst, send me the disk and I can see if the disk is recoverable. Or, at the very least, the data on the disk.

It is possible the disk is toast, but not necessarly the data on it. The computer lock up probally didn't kill the entire disk, probally just the file structure, which means that some data CAN be recovered.

Hell, I have lost my FAT partition and I have STILL been able to recover the data.

Be warned, though: I do charge, but not too much.

Man... I sound like an ad! :)
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 08:51:43 PM
IP: 1cust5.tnt6.det3.da.uu.net

**The Lady Corax pops back into the room.**

SJ> Hey, Demona IS a Republican, isn't she? Sweet. :) I also totally agree with you on the Native American topic, including the part about the idiots in Rage Against the Machine. ;)

Okay, I'm trying not to get off on a rant on the Native American subject right now, but I will say that they were royally screwed, and are *still* being royally screwed. Not very fair at all. Why can't the rest of American society just accept the fact that there are people living in America that have a completely different culture/way of thought than they do? You know, instead of trying to outlaw and end that way of thought because it is thought to be "inferior?" Oh, gee. I promised I wouldn't get off on a rant, so I'd better stop here. But if anyone wants me to stay in on this discussion, just let me know...I'll be around.

Coyote> Hiyas! :)

Well, I hate to say it...but I've come down with a tough cold...maybe even the flu, ugh. Hope none o' y'all are getting what's going around! :)

**LC sits herself down at the Tea Table of Peace with some peppermint tea and Kleenex, and watches the happenings of the room.**
Lady Corax
Thursday, November 30, 2000 08:23:55 PM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

Lynati- More info please. What have you tried to do, exactly?

First thing to do, though, is go to another computer using the same program you use to write in. If the other computer can use the disks properly, the disk is fine, otherwise it is either the disk itself or the info on said disk.

As far as what happened- either the computer is just being weird <it happens sometimes> or the disk or info there-on is bad. If either of those are true your info is as good as gone.

Can it be fixed- only if the problem is with the computer, if its with the disk your information is toast.

good luck, I hate when that stuff happens to me.

Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 30, 2000 07:45:05 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

*Lynati enters, very upset*

HELP!!!!
I was editing some of my stories -which are saved on a zip-disk- when the computer froze up. I asked the tech what do do; she told me to restart the computer and I could get the disk out. I asked her if the disk would be alright and she said it would be fine.
It isn't.
The she said that she never told me it would be fine.
At first I thought everything was gone; it's all written in quark express, the only application these computers have to write in, and none of the file showed up.
But looking in the zip-disk file outside of Quark, all the headings are there- but have a little "PC" logo above then instead of the thing indicating their written in quark.
The computer keeps telling me that the format they are written in is "unknown", and refuses to read them.
I've tried it in different things- nonw work.
Most of the stuff is printed out, but the disk holds the only edited versions, as well as a lot of time and effort.

Can somebody tell me what happened?

More importantly- can it be fixed?
and HOW?

*Lynati sits down, close to tears, to wait for help*
Lynati
Thursday, November 30, 2000 07:33:22 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

**EVIL DEBATE**
Ok, by almost every standard, being pure evil is out to destroy everything and being pure good is out to help everyone. So what do you call someone is not out to destroy AND not out to help?

So what about whackos who bomb places protesting something going on the inside? They are trying to save something, but end up killing people.
**END Evil vs Good debate**

**WORK RELATED**
Hahahaha. If only logic prevailed. There is a hiring freeze going on right now (while the company is waiting for more orders); however, within the last few months, the company has been hiring some new management positions. So I have to wait for the HR department to process my application AND get the go ahead to hire more full time people. I am told the same thing happened last year. Now, provided I can get hired before December 22, I will be able to make G2001.
**END WORK RELATED**

**BFTS RP continues**
As Uriel entered the cabin, DPH said, "Yep, it's a good thing I reserved two cabins when I stopped to pick up the pizza."

Uriel replied, "So what is the plan?"

DPH said, "Well, Plastique will provide the bait: osmium. She will make a large amount, attracting NCA to this location. Jason, with Connect's powers and help, will try to counter each of NCA's attacks. Winterwolf, Frost, Plastique, and you will keep NCA busy. I will try to penetrate any forcefields he creates to protect himself."

Plastique, Jason, Winterwolf, and Frost all nodded their heads in agreement.

Uriel asks, "so when do we start this battle?"

DPH replies, "I am working on a spell to boost my capacities. I have nearly completed it. When I think the spell is ready, Plastique will start making osmium. So, please tell us about yourself."
**END BFTS RP for now**
DPH - [<--click here for my budget (not in use)]
unknown, unknown, unknown
Thursday, November 30, 2000 07:00:29 PM
IP: max1-29.cwy.cei.net

Good and evil is seperated by one thing. Free Will on whether or not to commit an act of violence.

Bigger post later.

Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Thursday, November 30, 2000 06:49:38 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

An odd little "crossover" creativity demon that occurred to me while watching "X-Men: Evolution" that I finally remembered to mention here. I noticed that in the series, Cyclops' real name is Scott Summers, and when I noticed that, I began to wonder - what if he's got a relative (distant cousin, most likely) living out in California who's had her own brushes with the outre (though demons and vampires rather than hostile mutants) and could be considered a super-hero of a sort?
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 30, 2000 06:18:02 PM
IP: 216.87.46.90.dialup-stl.primary.net

*Lynati Enters*

Gside: Of course I got the princess bride ones. I recognized the Uzi one, as well...only I can't quite place where from (which is unusual for me)...I do remember a line like; "wait; you can have anything you want, and all you want is her phone number?" and I remember thinking, "it doesn't matter how "sweet" that was; I doubt a merc girl like that would agree to date that gut in the real world"... or something. Heh.

Spike: I was reading your gargfics, (like 'em) but the computer won't let me read the earliest six. Is there any other site that is currently open that has them, or do I have to get down on my bruised knees and beg you to email them to me...? (Not that I mind; good writing is worth a little groveling.)

*Lynati limps out*
Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 06:10:43 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Hi all.

Azrael> You're right in that just because someone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn't mean they still shouldn't be punished for breaking a law. But that's why they are. We live in a society. A "clubhouse," if you will. If a drug dealer wants to deal drugs and disobey a clubhouse rule, he doesn't have to belong to our clubhouse. If he thinks he's right, he can start his own clubhouse, and see how long it stands...

Personally, I don't believe in Good and Evil. I believe in Education and Ignorance.

Just passin' through...
Entity
Thursday, November 30, 2000 05:58:51 PM
IP: nic-30-c5-215.mw.mediaone.net

*ahem*

Presenting "Pillowing" -- for mature readers only.
*ducks head and scuttles off*
Spike
Thursday, November 30, 2000 05:49:03 PM
IP: adsl-208-190-38-102.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net

Something I forgot this morning.

Gside: I've heard that about Amazons too. It makes both me and Shauna want to throw up. No wonder they couldn't ever get any men! :) Shauna herself shoots very well with both her breasts intact, but then she's only on the low end of B cup (smaller than me, too- I'm also a B, but on the high end), so I'd imagine they don't get in the way too much. The unbinding is just a quirk. Sorry about the mix-up with Revel.

Later.
Kit
Thursday, November 30, 2000 05:42:48 PM
IP: pool-63.52.168.102.dlls.grid.net

Taleweaver: In answer to your question: Both. There is only very seldom an excuse for causing death and/or destruction. Conversely, if my actions are only motivated by what is good to me <note the word "to" not "for"> then that is also evil. It may be evil on such a minute scale that killing an ant would be worse, but it is evil just the same.

Now, to clarify some of the statements I made earlier this post:
Seldom Excuses for death/and or destruction- a war, killing millions, to save a like number is probably okay, while killing a man <or anyone really> for revenge or any such othe motive is evil.
"to" not "for"- If something is good "for" me I have every right to pursue that thing, within reason. If I need a kidney transplant, I have every right to petition government, courts, ect to get put as close to the top of the wait list as is possible.
If something is only good "to" me, I have no right to persue it at all. This is not to say I should not persue, but that the moment my doing so harms anyone else AT ALL, I should stop.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 30, 2000 05:40:00 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Buffy and Angel> ****Spoilers Within ****

Can't say much that hasn't been. Like Angel more than Buffy. The Trials reminded me of a B5 ep "Come the Inquisitor". Good trials, but by the end of the first one, I knew that the thrid one would be about death. And the lose in order to win was a bit predictable, but I did like the fact that she is already living her second chance. Great twists at the end.

* * * * End of Spoilers * * * *

Incidently, I've seen the building they use for Wolfram & Hart. Its the Sony Pictures Office building, across the street from the studios. Not nearly as dark and sinister in the harsh glare of early morning traffic.

Demona is evil> I agree with Pat and the others. She's definately a very complicated character. Evil is hard to sum up everything. I'd place Magneto a lot higher on the sliding scale than Demona though. Magneto, at least the one from the Fox cartoon show, had a healthy respect for his advesaries.I would consider him committed over evil because he believed in his conviction and his actions bore that out. Demona on the other hand hasn't. Her actions in the series show a more concerted effort for her own survival than that of her species. Even in TGS her efforts remained on her own and her daughter's survival. It does pose an interesting question about motive or action. Which should be held accountable? As a dragon, I believe the thoughts and opinions aren't ethical, but actions are, because actions impact others. But I've played the Hiesenberg uncertainty game with Fate enough times to know that any action has mixed results. If you wait long enough the result you are looking for will appear. So I'll turn that question loose on you in this form. Where does the evil lie? In the hand that cast the blow or the mind that conceives that thought.

Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 04:33:30 PM
IP: hal5000.engineering.csupomona.edu

Warpmind > sorry to disappoint your gutter-mind, but Bad Girls will feature swearing and probably violence, but precious little in the way of sex ; )

Gunjack > thanks; the craziness started already when a bunch of people trashed nine or ten Starbucks shops and spray-painted the big A for anarchist (I guess because it was in black; oh for the good old days when it would have been red and stand for adultress! <g>). I am safely out of the downtown area now and don't have to return until Sunday night, by when it'll either all be over or the city will be a war zone. And if the latter's the case, I may call in sick ...
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 04:22:51 PM
IP: 17-033.075.popsite.net

(hugged by Caliope before she ran out)
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Thursday, November 30, 2000 04:12:21 PM
IP: h2odam.sdccd.cc.ca.us

Lain- By denying that people can be evil, we deny our right to protect ourselves from that behavior. As we hit upon in the "God/No God, Truth/No Truth" debate, it is only by clinging to those definitions of Good and Evil that we can punish those whos actions are evil. If we allow the arguement that "everyone has an oppinion and every oppinion is valid" then we can not punish anyone. Drug dealers can continue to deal becuase "their oppinion is valid" same with child molesters and murderers. We do not label people evil to seperate them from us, we label them evil because they seperated themselves from us. By viewing our needs as less important than their whims, they dehumanize us, and our only way of fighting back is to call them "evil" and punish them in the way allowed by our laws and our consciences.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 30, 2000 03:27:22 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Evil Debate (the debate that IS evil??)>>
Evil Schmeevil, is what I have to say. I don't believe in "evil". I don't think that people can be evil, not even Paul Bernardo or Hitler or people who engage in genocide or ethnic clensing.
I suppose I had better clarify this one, before I get squished by somebody.. I don't think people can be evil because that implies that they are different from other people, which honestly they aren't. Everyone has the same capacity to do hurtful things as anyone else. I think sometimes, people want to call others who commit (what most view as crimes) "evil" because it is a separation. They do not want to have to face the fact that they are perfectly capable of doing exactly the same things. True, maybe their moral code would prevent them from doing such things, but that doesn't mean the capacity isn't there..
Hitler was also just a man. He did terrible things, which caused and still cause a great deal of pain for many, please don't get me wrong on that. But he doesn't deserve the special classification of "evil".
He was just a man. I feel the same way about good. There are many people who act well, but that doesn't mean they are any more special or deserving of praise than any of the rest of us. Everyone has their faults. Actions can be either benneficial or harmful (though often the two sides of an issue can blur the boundary between these two). THere are always at least two sides to a story. To bring up the Nazi's again, I am sure many of them thought what they were doing was "wrong" - but there were also many who perceived their actions as being the "right thing to do" for the perpetuation of the "master race".
Who is right?
Well, it depends on which side you're on, doesn't it?
Many of the Nazi's thought they were doing the right thing. There are Neo-Nazi's today who seek to complete what was started. They think they are right, and their opinion cannot be denied. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how any might disagree.
I am not agreeing with or condoning ANY of what happened in WWII or in any war. But circumstances can often play a large role in "good" and "bad", and "evil". Therefore, since the boundaries are so ill-defined, I will not place definate, unbreakable lables on such things.
Actions can be beneficial or harmful, productive or destructive. No one thing can be so concretely defined as being "good" or "evil" because there is always a situation where such a rigid definition can be called into question.

Do you think that "good" and "evil" would really exist if there were not human minds to conjure such things?

so there, that's my reasoning.. :)

Azrael>> I may not believe in God, but that is a little comforting.. <:*|

anyway..
love,

lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Thursday, November 30, 2000 03:01:08 PM
IP: proxy1.spaceproxy.com

Hi hi!!!!

Kyryn> <<Americans>> *sigh* I supose you might be right about the "United Statesians" thing, but I cant help but remembering when I lived in the states and after a friend of mine said someting to me in spanish, a near by person turned to us to say "hey your in America, talk in englis" when most of the american population talks spanis, or some other Latin derived language like portuguise or french.

Green Baron> I supose it is a technicality, but you cant denigh the US has a mayor superiority complex going on. See, I'm at the advantage (or disadvantage depending on how you look at it ;P) that I' on both sides of the fence here, I AM "american" and I'm not, depends who I'm talking to, and tho I do agree the US is a great country to live in compared to others, its no utopia either and it could handel some improvements quite nicely.

Winterwolf> <> lol so your a night person too huh? :P

Kirshanta> Welcome to the madness! ;) Montreal is a lovely place to live in! Except I proabably would freez to death with what I'm used to, I went there during summer :) So anyways, make yourself at home! :)

Gunjack Valentine><<Could someone explain to me why, now that they don't have a USSR standing behind them any more, we still haven't ground Castro into dogmeat?>> Well, to put it simply dear, cuz its none of our dang buisness. I think its a bad habbit realy. we're always looking for some excuse or another to poke our noses into other contries buisness if it suits our benefits :P <<Personally, I can't get up before 9 AM without either coffee or music>> lol naw, I dont drink cofee, but I AM a music addict :P <<You're an inspiration to the world's huddled, exhausted, and suger-free masses>> lol actualy I've been good latly! Seeing my family on both sides are all helpless diabetics, I've laid off the powdered jello and sugar in general for the time being :P <<Whoa... Can she *SAY* that? >> lol Whatta ya mean Can I say that?! I dont get it! I'm confuzled O_o

Buffy and Angel stuff>

OK, I'm glad that ailen thing was explained as a type of demon cuz that just didnt quite fit in well with me. leave the aliens in Roswell, ya know what I mean? :P But over all interesting ep. I never suspected Ben was anything more than a doctor! Interesting...hmmm... Angel was good to and I totally wigged out when Dru showed up! That mad vamp is so cool! :P

Well, cant write much more! Gotta head to class! Sheesh! All these classes are ruining my college experience! ;P Bye! *HUGZ all and run out*
Caliope
Thursday, November 30, 2000 01:12:29 PM
IP: 136.145.83.183

Gside> Sorry. No as far as I know you aren't a shapeshifter (puts microscope over you) or are you? O_O (looks very closly)
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Thursday, November 30, 2000 01:03:21 PM
IP: h2odam.sdccd.cc.ca.us

Oooooo... this could even be better than the "good and evil" debate. Heh heh heh.

Lain- <But, could any of you who believe in God, or any of that, tell me if you think a human that has had seven weeks to form, that is not born, has a soul? And if so, what happens if it dies?> First let me say I don't know. I don't know if a seven week old fetus has a soul or not. I do know, however, what happened according to Old Testament Law to a man who even accidentally killed an unborn child. They were killed. This lends pretty good evidence <even if it is sercamstacial (sp?)> that even before they are born, babies have souls. Therefore, an unborn child would go to heaven. They haven't been able to sin <he/she was hardly functional, wouldn't you say?> so they can enter heaven on their own merits <or would that be lack of faults?>.

Evil Debate-
No one is inhearently Evil, however there are some people who have fallen so far into their own desires that they can only be classified as "evil," at least until, as Gunjack stated, we can find a better word. Hitler: Evil, The Khans <Ghengis, Kublai, ect.>: Evil, Xantos in the first couple of seasons: Evil, Demona: Evil. To add fuel to this fire, infact, I don't think Demona cares for Angela because she loves her, but because if Angela loves her it is vindication for some of the things she has done. If Angela suddenly asked Demona to repent all the things she had done and make her try to set them right, Demona would no longer "love" Angela.

Later Y'all.

Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Thursday, November 30, 2000 12:38:47 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Warpmind: <grins> Sorry, not topless. Just no bra and shirttail pulled out. Shirt's still there. Dirty minds must look elsewhere. :)

Doug will post tonight.
Kit
Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:22:47 AM
IP: pool-63.52.170.41.dlls.grid.net

Well, the Demona is evil statement seems to be working...

I have a couple of things to clear up:
1 - while I'm arguing that Demona is evil, I DON'T believe that's all there is to her character. Goliath is "big" but he's also smart, brave, loyal, pig headed... Evil is one trait that describes Demona, but it's not the only trait.

2 - I do want to limit my discussion to Demona as she was in the animated series. In TGS she's pretty much reformed. I accept that, even if I think it was too easy.

3 - I've got to say I'm proud of you all, since nobody has argued back with the logical gem "DEMONA'S NOT EVIL SINCE SHE'S MY FAVORITE CHARACTER!!! AND YOU'RE STUPID!!!!"

4 - One thing to keep in mind, hardly anybody ever thinks of himself as evil. (I know some people who do, but they're really just obnoxious) Demona has lots of ways to justify her actions, but those actions are still wrong.

I love that one.

Now, a few quick replies:
lain - OK, I don't suppose there's any requirement that you believe in evil. I'm somewhat curious about what you call drug dealers, child molesters, and "ethnic clensers," though.

Valentine - I didn't say she just had to admit she was wrong. I said she had to admit she was wrong AND try to make up for it. The trying would take a lifetime, and still not be done.

Warpmind - Magneto is evil too. He wants to enslave mankind and establish a ruling class of mutants with him as the master. While I'll agree that he has cause to be agrieved, I think that's taking things a little too far.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Thursday, November 30, 2000 09:08:28 AM
IP: 198.215.20.3

SJ> *reads your commentary on 3.5 toilets* *ROFLMAO* ohhhgaw, you always make me laugh! *wipes laughter tears* you are too funny, you know that? I needed the laugh.. thanks!! :)
Jannie
Thursday, November 30, 2000 07:51:14 AM
IP: 209-83-228-187.hou.port.mytelco.com

*Warpmind stumbles in, yawning enough to momentarily unhinge his jaw.*
Mornin', guys... *Urk* Thursday... Never got the hand of Thursdays, really... :|

Kit: Sorry, sorry - I thought I'd specified a date, but I'd just said "this week". My bad. Oh, and I never said I don't like fencing - I just don't practice it yet. ;)

Kyryn: No, orange peels. I had a dentist's appointment, not a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster. ;) Oh, and I *know* how it is when you look and sound like you've had a stroke - the only way you could tell I hadn't had one yesterday was my mental state, or lack thereof... :|

Niamhgold: *Grin* So, you're one of those who are highly susceptible to ans... anasta... ansa... painkillers? Me, I hardly respond to anything weaker than xylocaine - if I were a GURPS character, I'd definitely be Poisin Resistant; maybe even Immune... :) Hath its perks, but also its drawbacks...

Lynati: Get my mind *out* of the gutter? M'lady, my mind *is* the gutter. My most frequent IRC hangout these days would most certainly make most of the residents here worried about me. *Glances at Christine, Mara, Wilek, SJ, Gunjack, et cetera.* Then again, you guys would probably just register, after the initial surprise... ];) The "Infinite Monkeys" Project is based on the statement regarding random chance - an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite amount of time will eventually manage to produce the collected works of William Shakespeare. ];) And only two hours of sun? Depends on two things, really... time of year and location in Norway. After all, the country's long enough to reach from Italy to Denmark, and the northernmost area actually experiences total night for a few months in winter, and midnight sun for just as long in summer... me, I'm supposed to have about four or five hours of sun each day, though, with my hours, I don't know - I go to work before sunrise, and don't get out before sunset... :(

Demona's not really evil. In fact, I don't really think there *is* such a thing as true good and true evil - though, there's a whole lotta grey areas. What's good to some is evil to others, so... Demmie's kinda like Magneto, I guess... Good purpose, not-so-good methods... Which reminds me; I gotta write her into the next ep; I gotta try to motivate her further into her reforming process in my ficverse... But first, The Harp of Tara must be finished...

*FANFIC TEASER*
Ritter and Bluestone were idly perusing the shelves, while Arthur and Merlin were deeply engrossed in a game of chess.
"Say, Ritter?"
"Ja, Bluestone?"
"You don't suppose any of the other knights will show up soon?"
"I do not know. But with just two of us reincarnates here yet, ve need reinforcements, and soon."
The door was shoved open, and a cheerful-looking young woman entered.
"Hello, Galahad, Marrok. It's been a few centuries."
Bluestone and Ritter frowned for a moment.
"Can we help you, miss?"
"Guys, it's me. Gawain. There's been some sort of mistake, but it's me."
There was a rustle in the back room.
"Another knight is here? Great!"
Arthur strode out into the shop, and froze in his steps.
"Milady? You're one of my..."
"You used to know me as Gawain, my liege. I'm Jenny Croft these days."
* * * * *
The mists came out of nowhere, and a dark shape plummeted toward the shore, loud squeals coming from it. Then, the mists vanished as abruptly as they appeared, and Brooklyn's voice could be heard quite clearly in the night.
"I appreciate what you're doing here, Banshee, but in case you'd like to know, that isn't a part of the bike you're holding."
Another squeal, with a clear tone of annoyance and revulsion.
*TEASER END*

Christine: A fanfic titled "Bad Girls"? Oooo, that title has such potential... and, knowing you, you're going to go all the way with it, right? ]:)

Gunjack Valentine: Hmmm... the "Infinite Monkeys" project is nothing like *that*... see comment to Lynati for further details... Oh, and yes, I've played Curse of Monkey Island; ever failed to open the umbrella at Skull Island? ]:)

Gside: Nope, not too late yet. :) By the way, I *really* wasn't going to say this, but your amazon comment forces me to...

Kit: She feels she has to *completely* unbind her breasts? *Blink* *Grin* Oooo, topless archery, fun... ];)

Well, I gotta go now. Later, muchachos.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Thursday, November 30, 2000 03:27:41 AM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

Kitainia> <<many things she feels she must do to shoot her best- completely unbind her breasts>>: I've heard it helps to lop the right one off (amazon = a- mazon = without breast).
<<thanks to you and Gside for mentioning Recycled Books and Records>>: Sorry, not me. That was Revel. Though there is a place in Red Bank called Pyramid Books. Used to be down the street from the Stash.

James Birdsong> <<Gside>... I'd have to say she is at times yes quite evil>>: What happened, did I suddenly become a shapeshifter? It was David G who put forth the debate topic.

Niamhgold> <<after the 16th, I go home for a _month_! Yippee, hoorah>>: I don't know, you kind of get used to it after a while.

Kirshanta> <>: Nah, just the ones to whom I think a can say somthing constructive or amusingly odd.

Lynati> That's quite odd what you did to your foot. May it heal soon.
<<Ahh! I got that quote!>>: Which one? The UZI, or one of the Princess Bride ones?
<<Infinite monkeys?>>: There is a theory that if you give an infinate number of monkeys and infinate nymber of typewriters, eventually (under an infinate length of time) they will produce the complete works of Shakespeare (among other pieces) from their random button pushing.

Gunjack> <>: Is it too late to third the opinion?
<<The first three times I read this, I thought "each" refered to the candidates>>: You would think that, wouldn't you?
<>: Uma? Doing Botticelli? Or was it all the Death stuff?
<<Never heard of the gerbil thing>>: Just so you know, the Micro doesn't mean small, it stands for microwave. "I'm gonna do sumin to ya. Sumin bad."
<<Don't push him so hard! He's been mostly dead all day!>>: My brains, his steel and your strength against sixty men and you think a little head jiggle is supposed to make me happy? Hmm??
<<For some odd reason, "Carol of the Bells" starts me on a combat high>>: I say blame it on the stresses in the beat pattern.
<<It's hard to stop, isn't it?>>: Well, seeing as how I almost take each response as a personal challenge...
<<What evil have we wrought?>>: More than is fit for the eyes of men.
<<Click the name link, and then get yourself some good padding>>: He's got a BA in Nannas, folks.
<<And it's time to check "megatokyo">>: Why? Today's has already been out for 23 hours or so (as of your posting time). Unless you're looking for rants.

And continuing the Christmas music, check out Sleigh Ride, written by Leroy Anderson and performed by the Boston Pops.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Thursday, November 30, 2000 02:21:16 AM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

Valentine>> yeah, the crap is raining.. :*( So I get to vent here? Well maybe not tonight, I HAVE to try and get some sleep before I faint.
But, could any of you who believe in God, or any of that, tell me if you think a human that has had seven weeks to form, that is not born, has a soul? And if so, what happens if it dies?

And I still don't believe in evil..
lain
Thursday, November 30, 2000 01:05:30 AM
IP: proxy2.spaceproxy.com

***SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT***
Sevarius Jr. Entertainment proudly presents to you.....a Pistoff Production.....a Fred Kerns fan fiction......

GARGOYLES: 2K -- INJUSTICE FOR ALL, pt. 4!!!!!

Gargoyles 2K # 17, the Conclusion: The trial of Charlie Ryan reaches a bloody conclusion.

Starring Jack Hammer, Taura, Delilah, Goliath, Elisa, Brooklyn, Angela, Boiler, the Dude, Gary Coleman as the Sugar Plum Fairy, and Jerry Mathers as the Beaver!

And speaking of beavers.....it's rated R, kiddies, for profanity and violence.

GARGOYLES 2K: INJUSTICE FOR ALL, pt. 4 by Fred "Pistoff" Kerns!

Are you still reading this post? Go click on the link and get thee to this story NOW!!!
***END SHAMELESS PLUGG***
Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 12:33:17 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

You know, the more I watch these tabloid TV shows, the funnier I find the whole Robert Downey Jr. situation. That's all these shows are talking about. And I don't mean to sound harsh.....no wait, I DO mean to sound harsh...but what did you expect? I gave this guy 6 months before his nose was looking like snow cone again. Everyone is going, "I feel so sorry for him". I don't. I have no sympathy for him. I don't care that his father hooked him on smack when he was 8. All I know is that this son of a bitch has virtually everything going for him, including a prominent role on one of the most popular shows in the entire country, and he can't stop doing blow for longer than 3 months. He's got no willpower. What *really* makes me laugh is that lots of people are blaming the guy who ratted him out. What a terrible thing, the guy called the cops to arrest a drug addict. Tar and feather the bastard.
What really gripes my ass is that people say Downey should have been left alone because him stoned alone in his hotel room (alone unless you count Lucy in the sky with diamonds) is a "victimless crime". People seem to forget that a big reason this idiot was in lockup in the first place is that when he gets rolling, he doesn't *stay* in his hotel room. He usually winds up snuggling in some kids Star Wars blanket after breaking into a residential home.

I can't feel much sympathy, or even pity for him. He's had so many "second chances", most of them because of who he is, and he's blown all of them faster than a line of quality coke.

Demona: Evil? What, Demona's a Republican???!!! Score one for us! :)
But if you don't want to call her evil, how about the more appropriate one word description, "Bitch".

Spacebabie: Hey, that's what the report I saw on the 3.5 type toilets was about! People here in the states are going into Canada, buying the old type toilet, and bringing them back across the border. Customs doesn't give a damn. They're looking for drugs (or as Robert Downy Jr. calls them, "Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner"), not crappers. Technically, it isn't really illegal to own one of them, you just can't install it (but people are installing them, hence the problem). It's kind of silly when you think about it, but there are apparently many right-thinking Americans like me who love a strong flush. ;)

Native Americans: Speaking as someone with some strong Native American heritage, I gotta say, the Injuns got screwed over royally, more so (IMO) than ANY other ethnic group. Think about it. They owned all this land, and evil whitey came over and took it all. What did the Native Americans get in return? Firewater, a bullet or two when they resisted, and the right to run crappy, high-priced casinos. How come more people don't mention this? Far as I can tell, the only ones out there who are championing the Native Americans are those goddamned retards in Rage Against the Machine (I wish the NYPD had just shot those douche bags instead of Diallo...).

***BUFFY & ANGEL SPOILERS****

BUFFY: Relatively cool episode last night. The demon was, IMO, a bit weak, and looked more nauseating rather than frightening. There were some cool scenes in the show. It was nice to see the strain finally get to Buffy, causing her to have a brief emotional breakdown (she deserved it, with all she has had to go through). Riley, I'm convinced, has gone balls-to-the-wall ape-sh!t. I don't know what kind of game he's playing, but lately he's a few syringes short of a Robery Downey Jr. party platter, if you catch my drift.
And I KNEW IT. I knew Ben was evil! It's gonna be interesting to see what he meant by cleaning up after Glorificus for all his life. Are they related? Lovers? Friends? She was there with him in the locker room a couple weeks back. Gonna be cool to see how this all plays out.
And I still say it's Dawn that's causing everyone--including Joyce--to go loco.

ANGEL: A bit of a swerve right off to bat with having Darla be terminal. I was kind of enjoying where they were going with her as a human. Anyway, nice way of explaining her illness--a syphilitic heart condition caused prior to her first death (but rather gross to think that all this time the lovely Darla has had syphilis. Ecccch.) Cool trial, but ultimately you knew that Darla wasn't going to get saved. I was screaming with joy after Drusilla showed up, though. God I love that little psychopath. The Bitch is Back!
***END SPOILERS***
Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Thursday, November 30, 2000 12:19:04 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

*Valentine walks back in*

...Or, we COULD blow off modeling and just post tonight! Inconsistency, thy name is Valentine...

Lynati><> ...I agree with Warps. Too many jokes... o_O <<It ended with the entire class moving around on their backs, pretending to be sperm.>> *stares at her, totally boggled* ...And you pay *them*? While I would rather EAT GLASS than add that to my transcript, it would be interesting to audit. With a camera.
Children, can we say "Blackmail"? ; ) <> Ouch. ; ( We just found out yesterday that my dad broke his foot moving the library last week... Pain seems to be spreading!
Oh, and tell your dad that the poetry kicked rear! 8 )
<<A highwayman comes riding, and punches two holes in each.>> The first three times I read this, I thought "each" refered to the candidates... 8D

Gside><<Depends on if your glasses block the frequency of the light used.>> Well, they're rigged to soak up hits from targeting and dazzle lasers, and they include flare compensation(don'tcha love TL8 gear?)... But like Warps said, it isn't anything I havent't seen before. 8 )
<<That, and it would probably turn into some big international incident for us interfering in some other country's political processes (so overtly, that is).>> Tell all the whiners to bugger off. Castro's a communist dictator, and while the blood on his hands may be pretty old, that doesn't make it any less damning... Besides, I've got the urge to kill a Chekist (just finished "Gulag Archipelago"), and he's got the closest supply.
<<Started, never got around to finishing.>> A pity. In my (out-of-date) opinion, the Athenaverse was the best fanfic arc ever written for *anything*... <<Yo. Right here.>> Go see it immediatly. It's one of the best movies ever made. <<Oh, and for your list, how about Gilliam's dreamer trilogy (Time Bandits, Brazil, Baron Munchausen)?>> I haven't seen the first two, but "Baron Muchenhausen"...
Whoa.
I don't remember how old I was when I saw that, but I sure as *HECK* wasn't old enough. There should be warning labels on those things! o_O
<<CRFH? I rather like Roger.>> I'm partial to Mike, myself... It's the Day of the Tentacle! :D <<He is most famous for his MicroGerbil and Frog in a Blender.>> Never heard of the gerbil thing, but I've seen the frog... <<And I must say that Supa Fly II will extend your trash talk proficiency.>> Now THIS sounds interesting... : ) <<I'm sorry Inigo. I didn't mean to jog him so hard.>> Don't push him so hard! He's been mostly dead all day!
<<Well, I think the MTC seems to be consistantly good, and I have a certain fondness for symphonic arrangements.>> For some odd reason, "Carol of the Bells" starts me on a combat high... o_O
Here's a kick: Try listening to both "Carol of the Bells", followed by "Duel of the Fates", "Liberi Fatali", and "Primal Eyes"... that playlist'll enliven a corpse.
<<Sorry, I've been doing too many quotes.>> It's hard to stop, isn't it? What evil have we wrought? ; )

David G.><<DEMONA IS EVIL!>> Which version? They really couldn,t do much "evil" stuff in the show, or they'd get kicked off the air... But in concept, I'd agree with you.

Warpmind><<Well, project "Infinite Monkeys" is running on schedule... no Shakespeare yet, but we've got three full seasons of Star Trek episodes, for some reason... :|>> Click the name link, and then get yourself some good padding... <<Oh, and Irish Coffee doesn't contain *that* much alcohol - remember, alcohol steams off rather quickly, particularly when you pour hot coffee over it.>> That's how we always excused soaking our meat in australain beer... 8D <<well, obviously, you've probably seen one or two of those guns anyway, so what'd be the point? ;)>> It's good to be me... 8 ) <<Feels like someone clouted me on the forehead with a gold brick wrapped in orange peels. :)>> I'm trying really hard to imagine that sensation... and I just can't.
<<Oh, well, you're probably not interested, but take my example as a warning - alcohol mixed with analgesics (which are not devised to increase rectal pleasure) may have unstable effects.>> Ever played "Curse of Monkey Island"? ; ) ...Don't go dying on us, 'kay?

???><<NOTICE OF REPOSSESSION OF PROPERTY AND GOVERNMENT>> Oh crap, they're REPRODUCING! O_O *Grabs a shotgun, and begins blasting the legal documents that slither menacingly toward his desk*
<<(With exception of the "Fightin' Irish)>> ...From the Irish people I've known, I don't think the "fighting" part is considered an insult... ; ) Maybe we should just even the board and start a "Pennsylvania Palefaces" or some such... : )

Niahmgold><<Okay, anyways, Black Friday is the name for the Friday that follows Thanksgiving, the busiest shopping day of the entire year.>> Any clues as to why it's "Black"? <> My problem was that the frickin' pills didn't kick in until I took THREE TIMES the recomended dose... And then I phased out in the middle of a conversation. : P

Lain - Is it STILL raining crap? : ( And feel free to vent in here... It's what the rooms's for. <<And, for the record, seeing as how I don't believe that people can be evil.. and I don't really believe in evil at all...>> Refer to Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago"; specificaly the "Interogation" and "Bluecap" chapters. If Chekists aren't "evil", then the term will have to do until we find one with a little more bite to it.

Kirshanta><<My sanity is no longer an issue.>> Gentlemen, the Sanity Bank is in grave danger. We may be forced to raise interest rates...

David G.><<To earn the lable of "Good" in my eyes all she'd have to do is admit that she was wrong in the past and try to make up for the wrong she'd done as much as she could.>> Considering the fact that she's probably been an undertaker's dream for a thousand years, I think it'd take a bit more than admitting she was wrong...

Christine><<It's called "Bad Girls," and I think it's gonna be big! ; )>> ...I sense a disturbence in the space-time fabric... ; D
Stay safe out there, y'hear? Don't put up with any of that hippie crap...

On a persoanl note, I had an especially wierd dream last night... I've been shot, facehugged, turned into a zombie, and crucified in dreams before, but this is the first time I'd ever been... Arrested. Yup, I made the mistake of visiting a posh country club auction with a revolver clipped to the frame of my bike instead of a waterbottle. About the time a lawyer was explaining to me that this was my fifth offense and that I was going to jail, I woke up.
The dream also included wandering through a Halflife mountian range and dodging sixty-foot zebra worms, but we won't go there. *glances at his watch* ...And it's time to check "megatokyo", and to get back to modeling...

Peace, Love, Dope!

Park Avenue runs north and south
While Tyson street lives hand in mouth...
-Trout Fishing In America
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:47:54 PM
IP: 209-223-253-137.ausa.net

Hey Guys

Sorry my RL conflicts me posting as much! So here are a few replies.

<Bronx>
Hey how are yas? Haven't talked in awhile. EMAIL me!

<Winterwolf>
I'm awaiting those comments

<Emambu>
Thanks for the kind words once again. Let me know if you got Part 2

<WARNING BFTS RP>
Message 148 of 150 [ Reply ] [ Forward ] [ View Source ] [ Delete ]

From: <brooklyn_11_19@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 25, 2000 12:26pm
Subject: Uriel's introduction.

The sunset quickly past mountains in the distance. With a massive
roar and deep yawn Uriel awoke from his stone slumber.

"You must be DPH, I am Uriel."

"Yes I am. This is Jason and Frost."

"Am I to understand that a battle is to take place soon?"

"Yes a battle with NCA. Come inside we will brief you on the plan."
DPH motioned for the door.
<END BFTS RP>

Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:16:21 PM
IP: 216.117.75.87

Demona is WAY too complex a personality to sum her up in one word like "evil." Everyone has inside them both the capacity for good and bad - even Demona. And remember... for the first season and a half, we thought Xanatos was the unrepentent villain, too.

And now a quick reminder... Early-bird memberships for The Gathering 2001 are still available through the end of December! Act now to get the lowest pre-registration membership rate that will be offered - only $30 for the entire 4-day convention weekend.

MARINA SIRTIS, voice of Demona (hey, how's that for a coincidence), tops our still-growing list of list of over 20 scheduled guests, making this the Gathering you won't want to miss. If you love "Gargoyles", Los Angeles is where you need to be June 22-25, 2001.

:: posts the link ::
Patrick Toman
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 10:48:44 PM
IP: ac8afcbd.ipt.aol.com

*Valentine enters, wearing his grungy mechanic gear*

Good and evil, eh? Dave me lad, you're on my christmas card list this year... 8D

Real post tomorrow...
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 09:37:48 PM
IP: 209-223-253-137.ausa.net

Shaping up to be an interesting weekend here in my corner of the state ... tomorrow is the anniversary of the WTO riots in Seattle, and so there's a big march and rally planned and there's a police presence planned and there's a no-protest zone already trying to be established, and here we go again ... at least I don't have to work tomorrow night, so hopefully I can avoid the curfew zone and the drifting clouds of tear gas and a facility full of cooped-up antsy residents this time. Egad, what a mess. Everyone's _saying_ it's going to be peaceful, but there's always those few just looking for an excuse to begin their Xmas looting. ::shakes head::

In other news, I began a new fanfic last night, figuring that this is too hectic a time of year to try and dive into a new book. This is one I've had in mind for over a year now, and the time has finally come. It's called "Bad Girls," and I think it's gonna be big! ; )

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 08:24:41 PM
IP: 20-182.075.popsite.net

Lain, Spacebabie> I guess it all depends on how you define "Evil." I personally define evil externally - in other words, it's not what someone thinks, but what they do that defines them as good or evil. If someone consistantly and knowingly causes harm to others, whatever their justification, they're evil in my eyes.

On the other hand, I don't think you can be perminantly or inherrantly evil. As an analogy, I am a librarian (well, not exactly, but close enough). If I quit my job, I'd stop being a librarian. That doesn't change the past, but the past isn't as important for defining my life as the present is.

Demona was evil through most of the animated series, but in TGS she's in the process of reforming. In fact, she's not really activly evil any more. To earn the lable of "Good" in my eyes all she'd have to do is admit that she was wrong in the past and try to make up for the wrong she'd done as much as she could.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 08:16:45 PM
IP: 198.215.20.207

I belive Demona is evil but they have her charter so well written that her chater is fun to wach and lean about I think there more behind what made Demona distrust humans like she has. That is probley why she is such a love chacter.
Courtney
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 07:41:48 PM
IP: adsl-dynamic34-58.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

Is Demona evil? To a certain extent, yes. She is, after all, plotting the destruction of about six billion humans, and even the argument that it's in defence of her own species doesn't quite work. For one thing, there are other ways of solving the problem (if the humans honestly can't learn to make peace with the gargoyles, there's always the "retreat to Avalon" scenario, although I can't imagine Goliath agreeing to such a thing ever). For another thing, the real motivation is revenge, combined with her failure to take responsibility for her own actions and preference to blame everything on the humans. And let's face it, the bulk of humanity hasn't directly taken part in anti-gargoyle pogroms. That's been largely the work of people like Castaway; at most, the bulk of the public tended to root for them from the sidelines, but that was it, and even then, they were honestly afraid of the gargoyles. Destroying all humanity for the crimes of Castaway and those like him is like destroying the entire population of Germany for the crimes of Hitler and the Nazis, at least, IMO.

But Demona's a little too complex to be labeled just plain "evil", like that. Now, the Archmage, or Jackal and Hyena, on the other hand, could easily be given that label; but that's another story.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 07:27:18 PM
IP: 216.87.46.144.dialup-stl.primary.net

*A note appears on the wall*
Sorry for the double post, but I was just checking my hotmail and wanted to pass something along from my dad...
(I sent him a copy of the last Dr.Seuss bit; I don't know where he got these)

"Some more (post?-)election poetry, including another take on Dr. Seuss... A
truely artistic treatment for the English literature buffs among you of a
totally unartistic situation! It's time to pick your favorites":

For starters, history buff Henry Wadsworth Longfellow:
Listen, my children, don't dare ignore,
The midnight actions of Bush and Gore
In early November, the year ought-ought,
Hard to believe the mess they wrought.
Two billion bucks of campaign bounty
All came down to Palm Beach County.
What result could have been horrider
Than the situation we found in Florider?

Edgar Allen Poe is his usual gloomy self:
Once upon a campaign dreary, one which left us weak and weary
O'er many a quaint and curious promise of political lore
While we nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came yapping,
As of some votes overlapping, energy-zapping to the core
"'Tis a mess here," we all muttered, as the network anchors stuttered,
Stuttered over Bush and Gore.
Could there be another election with such a case of misdirection,
One with such a weak selection, yet fraught with tension to the core?
Quoth the ravers, "Nevermore."

Britain's Edward Lear's limerick is lighter:
There once was a U.S. election
That called for some expert detection -
How thousands of pollers
Could become two-holers
Like outhouses of recollection.

Ditto Ogden Nash:
I regret to admit that all my knowledge is
What I learned at Electoral Colleges,
So tell me please, though I hate to troublya,
Will the winner be Al, or will it be Dubya?

Joyce Kilmer's a media analyst:
I thought that I would never see
The networks all so up a tree.

Walt Whitman is lyrical, as always:
O' Captain! My Captain! our fearful trip's not done
The ship has weather'd every rack, but nobody knows who's won.

Alfred Noyes rhythmically rumbles:
And still of an autumn night they say, with the White House on the line,
When the campaign's a ghostly galleon and both candidates cry, "Tis mine!"
When the road is a ribbon of ballots, all within easy reach,
A highwayman comes riding,
Riding, Riding,
A highwayman comes riding, and punches two holes in each.

Dr. Seuss takes a look at election officials:
I cannot count them in a box
I cannot count them with a fox
I cannot count them by computer
I will not with a Roto-Rooter
I cannot count them card-by-card
I will not 'cause it's way too hard
I cannot count them on my fingers
I will not while suspicion lingers.
I'll leave the country in a jam -
I can't count ballots, Sam-I-Am.

And finally, Clement Moore adopts a holiday theme:
'Twas the month before Christmas, when all through the courts,
All the plaintiffs made stirring bad ballot reports.
Perhaps the best way to stop complaints that are raucous is
Start over again, with the Iowa caucuses.
Lynati
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 07:21:22 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

*Lynati Enters*

Foundations...
Very little on-the-floor work today, quit a bit of pounding on the walls and screaming though.
*Lynati pauses until Warpmind pulls his mind back out of the gutter and stops laughing*
We started doing a percussion-type experiment, and what with our room being completely empty and all, the walls and the floor were the only instruments we had to work with.
I wonder, if during the time we had to yell out our names, if anyone noticed I was yelling out a three-syllable name instead of a single-s one. ("Lynati" instead of the real-world one). I think I like this sort of art...most people said they liked my performance pieces, too -but I know a few misinterpreted them.

I skidded on a piece of scrap paper on my dorm floor last night; something wierd happened to my foot (the big toe really hurt at first, but now the inside of the ball of my foot does) and then my leg went the opposite direction and I skinned the top of my foot and my knee.
(A lot of people seemed to be getting hurt, and what with misery loving company and all I decided to share.)

Buffy- the plot thickens...
I loved the ending to Angel...weee! heh heh heh...
I second everyhting lain said. (...except for that bad Angel pun- once was enough...)

Gside: Ahh! I got that quote! : )

Warpmind: Glad I can be so entertaining...
Infinite monkeys?
I hope you feel better and the teethy-drugs don't mess you up too bad.
I heard that you only get two hours of sun during the winter- is that true?

Kitainia: *reads comment to lain* ...It's nice, when the people around you understand your scars, isn't it?
...Weee! you commented on the two things I thought everyone had missed! Although, I was pretty sure none of the CR females would have to ask what the red one stood for...]= )

*Lynati exits, to go get in line for the woodshop's scroll saw.*

Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]
Kansas City, MO
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 07:13:52 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

David G>>> Demona is not evil. She is misguided with her beliefes. She's very complex. Thats like saying Vegeta and Zechs Marquis/Millardo Peacecraft is evil.
Spacebabie
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 06:52:14 PM
IP: user-37kap3g.dialup.mindspring.com

Just checking
Marty
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 06:29:19 PM
IP: cygnus.anonymizer.com

Just checking
Marty
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 06:28:54 PM
IP: cygnus.anonymizer.com

**Boring, useless stuff about my life that you may find irrelevent**
Actually, I have finished the budget and I showed it to my sister-in-law. She said it sounded reasonable and nothing was way out of proportion. I had to do some manipulation to cover certain expenses (putting internet bill into the phone bill budget) to keep some idiot from saying I can cut that. I will probably post my budget online but I have done in MS Excel on Win95. http://www.cei.net/~dphofrules/DPHBUDGET.xls
**END TOPIC**

Ok, here is a challenging topic for the CR: Is there such a thing as a benevelent dictatorship? Why or why not?

1+1=3
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 06:27:20 PM
IP: max1-69.cwy.cei.net

Gunjack> Heh ;)

Kit> Don't worry, I'll try not to whack out on anybody. Thanks for the wishes.
SOROW
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 05:56:53 PM
IP: a010-0003.dll2.splitrock.net

Hey y'all!

Thanx for all the welcomes...
I noticed that most of you answer everybody who wrote in that day - wish i had time to do that.
- Sanity in a jar eh? If you're talking semantics - no problem. My sanity is no longer an issue. Anything else - take a number. I'll be with you in a moment. (wink)
That's it for now.
P.S. I thoroughly enjoyed the Grinch Al Gore I am list. Nice rhyming there kid.
Ciao.
Kirshanta - [kirshanta@yahoo.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 03:36:22 PM
IP: g68-240.citenet.net

...
Kirshan
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 03:24:16 PM
IP: g68-240.citenet.net

Anonymous>>Hey I like number 11. I'm a descendant...give me my freakin money!

Finished my poetry, and finished my paper for lit class as well as second draft for Comp. just two more things towrite and one to draw.

SJ>>> I'm thinking we should start a 3.5 toilet smuggling ring. We smuggle the illegal toilets across the candadian border and sell them for big bucks.

wow look at that two posts about me getting mony, No wonder I'm a Republican j/k Speaking of wich it appears that democrats are dropping like flies. No they arnt dying they are crossing over to the evil side.
One of my classmates told me that she wished she had never voted for Gore
I asked if she was going to become republican and she says she is thinking about it.

BEGIN the Spoilers for Buffy and Angel**********************
Buffy>>>This was like watching a classic X-File episode. Loved Joyce's decent into madness, loved the monster, loved Willow staking two vamps at one Loved Xanders reaction to what Anya said about the radiation can make you steril. He runs away. Riley is beggining to freak me out, and its nice to see there is more to Ben that meets the eye.

Angel, There is a God and his name is Joss. Man what greeat episode. I nearly cried when despite all the torutre Angel went through he still couldnt' cure Darla. nice to know that tall bag of salty goodness irons his cloths. And Jay zus Drusilla. I jumped up so hard I sent cats fkying into every direction. Talk about being your onw great grandmother.
SPOILERS END
Well I hope everyone has a good day

Love and Cheesy Neos
Spacebabie
Orlando, Fl
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 03:13:37 PM
IP: user-37kap3g.dialup.mindspring.com

*lain drags self into CR*

My life is full of SMELLY THINGS!! I don't think they are actually CR material but.. I feel like shiet..

Anyway on to *********BUFFY AND ANGEL SPOILERS*********

This Riley dude is gettin all wierdly like. Maybe he thinks that becoming more like Spike will help win over Buffy (??) I dunno, but it is creepy. This episode was a little dull, because it is supposed to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer, not X files, and I was annoyed by the alien. I must, however, admit that they did their reserarch on the moon thing.
I WANTED MORE SPIKE!!!! (what can I say?? Spike was always my fav.. right up there with Giles.. Hee hee)
THe action surrounding Joyce's illness is rather painfully well done.. :*( Again, I was almost in tears. (But like anyone gets an operation in two days.. get real..)

Angel was strange. Well acted. I knew the twist was coming at the end, but it might have made it even more effective if Darla had said something.. like say.. "no" -just to be a little more convincing in her role as the redeemed evil gal. Angel did his part, but I somehow feel he will still blame himself..
How much does it SUCK to be Angel right now?? (*snicker* ..or not.. *snicker snicker*)

************END BUFFY AND ANGEL COMMENTARY*******

And, for the record, seeing as how I don't believe that people can be evil.. and I don't really believe in evil at all.. well.. I guess Demona can't be evil, now, can she?

ANd they are coming out with new domain names for the Net, I am soooooo happy!!!! there's going to be the .com, the .biz, the .aero, the .muse... the list goes on..
I am sick of the net becoming a shopping mall, it makes me SICK!
Huzzah for the TGS CR!!!!! Where they don't try to sell stuff (except tickets for the Gathering.. and we'll forgive them for that cause it's cool..)

*lain lurches out, in hopes of finding a comfy bed and a hot water bottle*

love
lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
the wired
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 02:49:42 PM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

** Niamhgold enters **

Hey, all! It's been awhile, I know, I know, but final projects are due in just two weeks...and after the 16th, I go home for a _month_! Yippee, hoorah, I have never before been more glad that Christmas comes in December!

The plane ride home was rather quick (45 mins), but on the way back it was sleeting and freezing rain, making for a bumpy, turbulent, scared-the-bottom-off-the-guy-next-to-me two hour flight. Even had me praying for awhile. Not to mention that, as it usually occurs with many of my plane rides, I picked up a cold from being in the bad ventilation...blach.

Kit: Thanks, I'm not so much stuffed anymore (although I think I got a lifetime worth of pie stuffed into my body!). Pumpkin, Cherry, Orange, apple...and cannolis...woohooo! Okay, anyways, Black Friday is the name for the Friday that follows Thanksgiving, the busiest shopping day of the entire year. For the past two years I've had to work on that holiday...the stores open anywhere from 1 to 3 hours earlier, stay open later, and have sales that coerce 50 people to cram themselves into a small shop at a time. The shoppers come in a continuous flow, and it takes me an hour to get to work because of the traffic. Phew!

Winterwolf: Hola! Sorry I haven't e-mailed or posted in a while. Hope everything's okay!

GXB: I agree with you on the Magneto business. I'd much rather see him kept in the context of the movie's POV than what I fear the show will end up portraying him as...

Warpmind: Whoa, alcohol and analgesics...we're talking loopiness! I know that, for my, novacaine is usually enough to send my head spinning. I think my dentist gives me too much for my weight. When I got the old wisdom teeth out, I know that the doc gave me a little too much anesthetic for my weight and they apparently had a little "problem" with my blood pressure getting too low...
:(

Niamhgold
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 01:23:22 PM
IP: 206.41.204.68

***Kyryn sneaks in.***

Kitania> Sorry to tell you this but Recycled Books and Records is a one-shot, independent, used bookstore. As far as I know, the only one in existence is in Denton. But, hey, there's a reason to visit Denton if you ever get up this way!

Warpmind> <<Feels like someone clouted me on the forehead with a gold brick wrapped in orange peels. >> Isn't that supposed to be lemon peels? I can thoroughly sympathize with your dental experiences (although not the alcohol combination afterwards) as I had a deep cleaning and four fillings (two upper, two lower) yesterday. For a while I sounded and looked somewhat like I'd had a stroke.

Later All!

***Kyryn ducks out.***
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:36:24 PM
IP: exofw.aicpa.org

Anonymous> I am all for Native American rule. Please attack the guy who wants Britan back in charge (tosses tomatoes at whoever that was) Gside>(Owen like bland tone) As the resident Macbeth expert and token sane guy I'd have to say she is at times yes quite evil and was even before her clan was destroyed seeing as how her hatred of humans is what led her to betray the humans of castle Wyvern in the first place. Feel free to counter this point as you see fit. (straightens my tie) She was a fine primary advisor though. But again just when it seemed the golden age between humans and gargoyles would work out happily ever after. Demona (which Macbeth named her) wasn't so happy after all. Her giddiness faded bah as soon as one stupid rumor reached her ears about Scotland forsaking the gargoyles so that Malcolm would lose his English backing. It is all Madac's fault in my opnion. END RANT CASE CLOSED
James Birdsong - [LennexMacDuff@yahoo.com]
San Diego, CA, USA
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:17:29 AM
IP: h2odam.sdccd.cc.ca.us

Warpmind: I do read the latest updates before I post. You just didn't tell me the jerk was heading back to Kosovo already. Or did you? So many posts! :) Sorry for the confusion over that, and over the fencing. I think you mentioned wanting to have a duel with Archwolf someday sometime in the past, and I thought you liked fencing too as a result. I agree with you about True Faith.

Later.
Kitainia
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 10:38:05 AM
IP: pool-63.52.171.101.dlls.grid.net

* BUFFY/ANGEL SPOILERS *

I enjoyed both episodes last night; a few particular comments on them.

BUFFY: Count me as another person who feels uneasy about Riley's current habit of getting bitten by vampires voluntarily (voluntarily on his part). What *is* he up to? And, equally a question worth asking, do I want to know the answer?

So now we know what Ben is, and I've got to admit, I was a little taken aback by it. I hadn't expected him to be connected to Glory in that fashion. I'm hoping to get more revelations about him.

Joyce's behavior was effectively done too, and I liked the dialogue between her and Buffy about Faith at the end. It'll be interesting to see how things proceed from here (and particularly what the outcome of the operation is).

So Tara invents her own constellations, does she? (I'm afraid I'm still a little too much of a traditionalist at heart to go on that route; I still prefer the original ones).

ANGEL: Some very effective development on Darla here; like Kit, I particularly enjoyed the three tests and their "butlerish" operator. The bit that really made me sit up, however, was Drusilla showing up at the end. We'd all been expecting/hoping to see her return in "Angel", of course, but how many of us had thought that this was how she'd return? By turning Darla back into a vampire? I know that I hadn't, but it definitely worked.

* SPOILERS END *

X-MEN EVOLUTION: One thing that has occurred to me lately is that this is (to me) the closest thing to "Gargoyles" that we've had on animated television since "Gargoyles" itself folded. I know that it's the first animated series since "Gargoyles" ended where I was able to care about the characters in it. And it's a bit like Season One of "Gargoyles" as well, in that the protagonists aren't "super-heroes" yet (admittedly, I've never quite felt like using that term for Goliath and his clan anyway) but people just learning to cope with the changes in their lives (for the gargoyles, the move from medieval Scotland to modern-day New York, for the X-Men, the discovery that they're mutants with unusual abilities), where the antagonists are people who're personally after them (Xanatos and Demona in "Gargoyles", Mystique and the mutants that she's recruiting in "X-Men:Evolution") on a relatively covert level.

Another thing that I like about it is that they've clearly made it understandable to somebody who's not too familiar with "X-Men" (such as myself). It's started off slow, with the characters gradually getting added one by one, in such a way that we can explore each new one in enough detail to be able to grasp who he or she is. While not everything's been explained, we at least know what we need to know at the moment to understand the events. Greg Weisman commented that one of the reasons why he liked the "X-Men" movie shown earlier this summer is that it essentially started the continuity over from scratch; "X-Men: Evolution" is doing the same thing.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 07:14:39 AM
IP: 216.87.46.213.dialup-stl.primary.net

NOTICE OF REPOSSESSION OF PROPERTY AND GOVERNMENT

To the citizens of the United States of America, In light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the repossession of your government and property, effective this date.

The Council of Chiefs will assume traditional duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories, except Los Angeles, which you have inflicted irreplaceable damage beyond repair.
The new Council of Chiefs will appoint the National Congress of American Indians to disband the United States Congress and Senate. The White House will become an Elders Center. All Governors houses, and other government housing will be turned over to those homeless or near homeless families that have been on HUD waiting lists for years.

To aid in the transition to the Traditional Ways of life, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. Look up the word "repossession" in the dictionary.

2. Look up the word "Shaman" in the dictionary and discontinue any relationship of this word to any Indigenous healer or helper.

3. Revision and reprint of all dictionaries, specifically removing the word "Squaw" and other disparaging words hateful to all people of color and those with disabilities.

4. The words "aye", "ayes", "enit", "not even" and "49" will be added to the dictionary.

5. Discontinue to refer to traditional regalia as "Costumes".

6. All hunting and fishing rights of the will be based on need of the family or community. All sports hunting and fishing will be banned.Those caught sport fishing and hunting will be deported to the unclaimed country, Los Angeles.

7. You should learn to distinguish southwestern, northwest, coastal, plains, southern, east coast and all other tribes, bands, clans and corporations from each other. And note that all Indians don't or did not live in Teepee's.

8. Hollywood will be required to hire actual Native actors for parts and not just the bad guys or spiritual leader.

9. Discontinuance of American Indian names, tribes or images on any sports team. The 99.9% of you that are unaware that no other race of people are degraded in such a way, i.e., St. Louis Spick's, Washington Wop's, Georgia Gook's, Denver Danes. (With exception of the "Fightin' Irish)

10. Discontinuance of the use of American Indian names, tribes or images on any product or merchandise. The 99.9% of you that are unaware that no other race of people are degraded in such a way, i.e., Jeep Chicano (without the consent of that particular tribal council's consent)

11. July 4th , Columbus Day and Presidents Days are no longer public holidays. Instead we will have the summer off with pay, if you are Native American or a descendant.

12.Commodities will have color applied to their labels.

13. Beauty pageants will allow the Native American contestants to wear t-shirt and cut-offs in the swimsuit competition.

14. All non-native peoples will be required to attend trainings in the appropriate gestures of "lip signaling".

We thank you for your cooperation.
Anonymous
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 06:37:46 AM
IP: proxy-1532.public.svc.webtv.net

*Warpmind ambles in, singing a lewd ballad about a harem coreographer, grinning like a maniac all the while. A closer look reveals that half his face is hanging completely limp.*
Woohoo! Just came back from the dentist! Three holes, three full shots of xylocaine. Silly me had a beer last night, and there was some residual effect. Feels like someone clouted me on the forehead with a gold brick wrapped in orange peels. :) Oh, well, you're probably not interested, but take my example as a warning - alcohol mixed with analgesics (which are not devised to increase rectal pleasure) may have unstable effects.
*Ambles out again.*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 06:21:25 AM
IP: hume.ti.telenor.net

*Warpmind enters, carrying a HUGE pile of papers.*
Well, project "Infinite Monkeys" is running on schedule... no Shakespeare yet, but we've got three full seasons of Star Trek episodes, for some reason... :|

SJ: Ah, it is when you say such things, I actually am GLAD to live in Norway. ]:) Over here, the government doesn't stick their noses into where we take a dump, like on your side of the Atlantic. ];)

Hi, Kirshanta. Welcome, please dispose of your sanity in an environmentally secure container, for whatever purpose we might devise in the future. ];)

Gunjack Valentine: Pity him? Nah, waste of neurons. ];) Oh, and Irish Coffee doesn't contain *that* much alcohol - remember, alcohol steams off rather quickly, particularly when you pour hot coffee over it. (Nudge, nudge, practicing peer pressure.) ];) As for sunglasses protecting against neuralyzers... well, obviously, you've probably seen one or two of those guns anyway, so what'd be the point? ;)

Lynati: They had you writhing on the floor for about half of the experiments? And you found yourself under two layers of people? *Twitches* Oh, the pain, the pain... WAY too many jokes... *Hurt!*

Kit: As I've already said (don't you check latest updates before posting, anyway?), the guy's out of hospital, and on his way home... to Kosovo. ]:) And I suspect that divine boons *might* be the real McCoy, or, equally likely, the effect of pure, unbridled Faith (kinda like in Vampire: The Masquerade, if you know what I mean). Few things can stand up against True Faith, be it justified or not... Oh, and I don't fence - haven't had the opportunity to practice, I'm afraid... :( But I *intend* to do something about that, and soon... And, heh, "great writers"... hmmm... I'm thinking "Greg Weisman, Christine Morgan and Christi Smith Hayden" as co-writers, to aid my vision here. Wonder if I can ever afford'em... ;) Of course, I have some rather obese ambitions for the series, anyway... I wonder if it is even a point in asking Patric Stewart... :)

Well, that's the end of the line for now. Well, maybe not the *line*, but you know what I mean... ;)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 02:11:36 AM
IP: ti21a67-0177.dialup.online.no

Begin Part 2!

SJ: I too think you should go watch Unbreakable, it's a film you would enjoy a lot. Much more than you did Sixth Sense, I think. I'll respect your decision if you don't want to see it, though, but you'd be missing out on a great time. <shrugs> Trust me, you won't have to wait through this movie to like it- it lives up to the hype. That's all I'll say. Can e-mail you spoilers if you want them though. Thanks for the hilarious election bit.

Daphne: <drops jaw in anger> Sorry to hear about the school situation. That is nuts! I can't believe you have to suffer just because of others' misdeeds. Hope you can find a solution that puts things back in your favor and keeps it bad in theirs- Mandi's idea sounds like a nice possibility. Good luck. <encouraging pat on the back> Hang in there, friend.

Mary: Your sister is indeed a stupid person if she got her tongue pierced. Check the RP below for the consequences that can have other than just making the inside of your mouth ugly- they aren't pretty, to say the least. <sighs> There are so many better ways to express yourself than by getting body piercings- why can't people think of them instead of something that will scar them for life? Oh well, it's her body, I know. I do share your concern though. Hope your sis learns the error of her ways sometime, and soon! <grimace> Sorry you have to put up with her in the meantime, good luck doing it. And congrats on your nice Thanksgiving.

Kirshanta: Welcome! Hope you like it here, we will do our best to make you feel welcome. And yes, we don't talk about Gargoyles too much. But we do have many many other topics to keep us interested and entertained. <grins>

Kyryn: Glad to hear Skippy's okay, thanks for the update. And thanks to you and Gside for mentioning Recycled Books and Records- if I can find one of their stores in this area, I am definitely going to check it out! Maybe make a few purchases too. :)

Courtney: Uh, nice plan. Wish you would tell us more. I understand you wanting to eliminate the free rider problem if that's what's holding you back, but I wish you would give us more details. That would encourage our help more than what you've been doing. But do whatever you want- whatever happens, I wish you good luck. <bows>

**BUFFY, ANGEL SPOILERS**
More great character developments in this week's episode- liked those on Joyce and Buffy especially. Have to use Joyce's line about the exam to a professor someday. <grin> I also could really sympathize with her about the operation and having to wait for it, that would make me nuts too. :) Her going crazy felt more weird than anything else, but it too was enjoyable- especially when coupled with Buffy's crying. Dawn's bits were also well-written, well-acted, and quite intriguing. Excellently choreographed opening fight scene, really liked Willow's enthusiasm at staking the vamps- made me grin. :) More disturbing is Riley's continuing to let vampires suck on him before their death- what is going on with that? Is he trying to find out what Buffy saw in Angel and refusing to acknowledge the Dark Avenger's humanity, or what? <shakes head> Soldier Boy better get found out soon, so Buffy can break up with him- I'm sure she'd have no problem with doing so if she knew what he's up to on the side. <gack> His getting involved with the government again worries me too. Maybe Riley will turn evil, but I personally hope they don't play up the Buffy's-love-goes-bad angle again too much. Yeah, Riley is way different from Angelus, but still… Oh well, I guess we'll see. Hope Buffy ends up with Ben or Spike next, either could be way fun. Good script to the episode overall, I liked the dialogue (between the Scoobies especially, with Riley in particular and also in the astronomy center. "It's a killer snot demon from outer space." L!) and the weird space creature- which wins my award for Creepiest Buffy Bad Guy so far this season. (The Gentlemen won it last year of course.) Especially liked its foundation in history and mystique. Dawn's response to it was good too, as was Buffy's fight with the thing. Her confrontation with Spike was great also- good to see him still alive, and they make fantastic battle-partners. Ben as the main male bad guy of the season surprised the hell out of me- they have to give us the full story on him and Glory, and soon! Joyce's end realization was good too, liked the resolution of it. Excellent emotions and acting in Buffy, once again. Hope Joyce survives the operation, and they show the next new episode soon. I guess I can wait a while, just hope it's not too long. <fingers crossed> Hope we get to see Buffy's reaction to Riley and the Rangers bursting into her house too. That is going to take a lot of explaining on his part. <grin>

More great dialogue abounded in this week's Angel. The Wesley and Cordelia banter was as enjoyable as always, Cordy's not-as-great new looks notwithstanding- I'm not quite used to her new hairstyle yet, I guess. :) Angel's development was great, liked his line about Cordy and Wes nagging a lot. :) And Gunn did well as his loyal right hand. Lindsay and Darla were also developed great, enjoyed in particular the revelation of Darla's terminal illness and her dealing with it. Manners was entertaining as the Machiavellian head villain once again. And I enjoyed the flashbacks of Angelus and Darla fleeing the lynch mobs too, hope this Holtz they were up against gets more development and comes up again- I did sense foreshadowing, so maybe he will. I wonder…Angel would do well with an age-old enemy still coming after him in the present, especially one who's not a vampire or demon. Hmm. :) The Angel and Darla bits in the present were good once again too, particularly in the conversations concerning her getting turned back into a vampire. The conversation Angel had with Lindsay was great too, and very developing. Darla singing was even more hilarious than Angel, liked Demon Karaoke Man's response to it especially. The next step is a duet. Hee. :) Angel's tests were good too, and I liked Darla's response to it. The butler of the tests was funny, and the tests themselves displayed great acting from Boreanz and effects. The butler's question to Angel and his answer showed especially good writing and emotion, hope that we see as good in future episodes. Surprising result to it all too, and great rampage from Angel at the end. Good resolution after it also, nice emotional expression. Drusilla's appearance at the end of it damn near gave me a heart attack too, then broke my heart. Damn, Whedon is good at shocking us with great writing. Can hardly wait to see what happens next new episode, may they keep up the good work! :)
**THESE SPOILERS END**

David G: Sorry to hear you're sick, hope it soon heals. Good luck to you with the doctor, hope you will keep us up to date. <kills the CR sickness-demon in some twisted and evil way involving a penicillin overdose and a way-too-big needle> Hope that helps. :)

That's all, I guess. The top of the room has been reached. Feels good, but now I have to step outside again into RL, so that doesn't feel as good. <sighs> Oh well, whatever happens, I can deal with it. I hope so anyway. <grins> Good luck to everyone else in their continued trials and travails. May they all soon be over. See you again next time, friends. Later!

**RESUME RP ACTION, IN THE MALL OF AMERICA**

As the effects of Stephanie's latest Quickening subside and the Mall's very structure shakes with the explosive aftershocks, in Underwater Adventures Orion and Geburah rise to their feet, both having been knocked over by the blast and soaking wet. Every glass tank in the aquarium has been shattered, the water having poured out and mostly run into drains. The fish who lived in it lie dead or dying on the ground. The cornugon demon growls, lashing his whip and sniffing the air. "I sense great evil triumphant," he chuckles. "One of your friends has been turned to the dark side, she is one us now. I wonder if you cared about this friend as much as you do about her." He points to Tanith, who has been awakened by the shaking and is slowly sitting up. Orion turns and gives her a brief smile, then goes back to concentrating on his adversary. He and Geburah were circling each other before the explosion, lashing out with weapon and spell when they could and neither having much effect on the other. Now it looks like that process will begin again. "Give it up, holy man!" Geburah snorts out brimstone. "You can't win! You may have the power of God on your side, but I have that of Hell!" "And God is stronger," Orion counters, making the sign of the cross. "Inri Ioveh!" Lashing out with his forefinger, he sends a bolt of holy power at Geburah, who intercepts it with a shield of black evil that shatters under the spell's power. Grimacing, the cornugon lashes out with his whip at Orion, who dodges and casts another spell, making a blade of fire appear in his empty hand. The next time the whip lashes out, he intercepts it with the blade, causing the whip to burst into golden flames and Geburah to scream in agony as they scald him. Dropping the whip to burn to cinders on the floor, the cornugon growls an oath and raises his hands, sending multi-forked lightning bolts at Orion. He blocks the brunt of them with a power shield of his own, screaming and falling over with the strength of those that get through. Extending his claws and lashing his tail, Geburah charges as Orion falls, only to have the cleric roll out of his way and leap back up, smacking the devil in the face with his mace and knocking him down. Geburah roars, then grabs his jaw and sets it back into place before lowering his horned head for another charge. "Goddess protect us!" Tanith shouts, grabbing a bit of seaweed and making a motion over it. Instantly several other bits of seaweed lying on the floor elongate and twine around Geburah, who growls as he struggles. "Good move," Orion smiles at his love, who grins back. "Your God's not the only powerful divine being," Tanith says, picking up a handful of ash and blowing it towards Geburah, who roars as the seaweed holding him bursts into flames at the sound of Tanith's Gaelic chant. Orion intones another holy word as the devil drops to the ground and rolls about to beat out the fire, shocking Geburah with the power bolt and leaving him splayed out on the floor. As Orion moves in for the kill, he disappears, reappearing behind Tanith and knocking her down with one swipe of his left claw. "I will at least deprive you of this!" Geburah declares, reaching towards her as she screams and Orion tries desperately to ready a prayer. A stream of green energy bolts is faster, hitting Geburah in the chest and knocking him back. Looking in their direction, he sees Lathrop looking stern and readying a cone of cold, then grimaces and vanishes in a flash of black light. "Orion!" Lathrop calls out, after dropping his spell with a frown. "Are you alright?" "Fine, thanks to you!" Orion smiles, leaning down to help Tanith back up and reaching out a healing hand towards her wound. "Save that!" Lathrop shouts. "Keith needs you badly! I'm glad I heard your shouted prayers and found you! You must come quick!" "It's okay, love," Tanith says as Orion frowns, touching a nearby pool of water and reciting another incantation. "I can heal too," she reminds Orion, who nods and smiles as her wound disappears. "Lathrop, this is Tanith," Orion says at Lathrop's questioning look. "Tanith, my friend Lathrop, a capable mage." "Tanith?" Lathrop's jaw falls open. "The same Tanith who…?" Orion nods. "Told him all about me, didn't you?" Tanith smiles, shaking her head. "I have some explaining…" Orion begins, but Lathrop cuts him off. "There'll be time for that later. Keith needs you now! Come on!" "What happened?" Orion asks, following the harried-looking Lathrop with a curious and eager Tanith just behind as he goes running off. From the shadowy rafters above them, Geburah spits out a long cinder, grimacing briefly in confusion as he hears the banshee wail of Winter Blade. After a moment of pause and a grim nod, the cornugon slinks away to lick his wounds.

The display changes to another part of the Mall, where Doug, Kit, and Anthony are getting up after the explosion has shaken the area near them, looking each other over for wounds. "You don't have a scratch on you," Doug marvels at Anthony. "Just call me Unbreakable," he shrugs, glancing at a movie poster on a nearby wall. "I'm just a little winded," Kit says. "The rest is going away already thanks to my healing factor. Doug?" "I'm alright, I think," Doug grimaces, twisting the arm he fell on to make sure it's not broken anywhere. "Wonder what that explosion was." "I'm more worried about him," Kit points to Warren Walker, who has just gotten up and is staring open-mouthed at his car, or what remains of it under a pile of fallen masonry that just missed Doug and the others. "My wheels!" he whines. "No!" Doug looks down at a piece of bumper on the ground next to him and reads aloud the stickers on it. "'How's My Driving? 1-800-EAT-SHIT.' 'I'm Not Arrogant, Just Better Than You.' Geez," he chuckles. "With slogans like that, you probably weren't that great on the road." "Shut up, Elder!" Warren raises his shank. "Bad enough that you had to act better than me on the job, getting there in time, keeping your temper, etc.- show me up in front of Abel! Now you have to make fun of my wheels too?" "Who's this Abel guy?" Kit asks Doug, who shrugs. "Don't tell me you forgot who our boss was, man!" Warren snaps. "I've had some memory problems," Doug answers. "Maybe you can remind me?" "Yeah, I'll remind you!" Warren snarls, waving his shank. "By drilling a hole through your freaking skull!" Doug waves Kit and Anthony to stand at ease as the punk former guard charges forward, stepping aside and letting him run past, then bringing up his shotgun and firing as Warren tries to spin around. He gasps in surprise at the impact of the plasma, then falls flat on his face. "Warren!" a blonde girl in a cream business dress-suit shouts, running forward from out of nowhere and dropping to his side, causing Doug, Kit, and Anthony to gasp in surprise. "I've been looking all over for you!" Warren's girlfriend shouts, grabbing his shirt. "You can't just run off and leave me like that. I…" Suddenly she stops, realizing he is bleeding heavily and not speaking. "Oh my…" she gasps. Kit looks at Doug, who grimaces and readies his gun again just as Warren's girl leaps up and screams, then grunts and falls over vomiting heavily. Falling to the ground, she gulps and chokes on the continuing vomit, then slumps over into death. "What the…" Doug looks dumbfounded. Kit meanwhile falls to the girl's side and rolls her over, turning away with distaste after opening her mouth. "Tongue-piercing," Kit says for everyone's benefit. "Bad idea. You put a hole right in the middle of a sweltering jungle of bacteria like your mouth, hello infection bigtime. The vomit probably set off some new allergy waiting to happen, caused this choking, and she's dead." Shaking her head, she drops the corpse and stands up. "Damn," Anthony whistles. "People actually do that to their bodies?" "Not knowingly, I hope," Kit replies, looking back at Doug. "You okay?" He nods. "Fine. I'm just a little shocked by all this. I…" He is interrupted by the wail of Winter Blade, which causes all three Ravens to blanch and break into a cold sweat. "A banshee?" Anthony mutters. "Here?" "Wonder what that was," Doug frowns, not hearing him. "I'm worried about the others," Kit says. "Shouldn't we try to find them? Maybe they know what that wail was, and the explosion." "Maybe," Doug agrees, pumping his gun with a grimace as loud screams of fear echo from nearby and the Ravens hear the patter of several footfalls and what sounds like squeaking tires heading towards them. "But I think we should see who or what's coming at us next first." Kit and Anthony nod, getting ready for possible battle as the screen goes blank.

**MORE EFFECTS OF THE EXPLOSION AND WAIL WILL BE DETAILED NEXT POST. END THIS LENGTHY BIT OF RP**
Kitainia - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:50:48 AM
IP: pool-63.52.128.57.dlls.grid.net

**RP HERE, FOR ALL THOSE DISGUSTED WITH THE CURRENT ELECTION PROCESS**

"Today Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris announced that according to vote results, Texas Governor George W. Bush has won the US Presidential Election," a TV anchorman is announcing as the screen comes on. He is about to continue, but someone throws a paperweight into the TV screen and bellows in rage as the set explodes. That someone is revealed to be Al Gore, who is slamming his fist against a wall in frustration and sweating heavily. His wife Tipper and Joseph Liebermann look on with frowns. "Al baby," Tipper says, "don't let this get you down. You can always try again in four years. I'll still be with you." "You don't understand, Tip!" Gore whines. "I have to win this election! If I don't win this election, Ted Turner will hate me and think I'm useless to his plans! He'll sacrifice me on the altar to Lord Gothmenes in his building's deepest subbasement! I'm not gonna get another chance!" "Perhaps we can delay the process longer," Liebermann speculates. "There's still the Cheney angle to play up, him residing in the same state as Bush and all. Maybe we can get Bush to do what they used to do in history- make the runner-up in the election Vice President. Then you'd at least have some power." "No!" Gore snaps. "I will not be Vice President again! Never!" "Okay, fine," Liebermann shrugs. "Uh, I can guess we can contest the recounts then. Try appealing all the way up to the US Supreme Court, but that might turn the public even more against us…" "I don't care what they think!" Gore pouts. "I just want to be President! Hillary wouldn't have this much trouble if she were running, Bill never did…I…" "Al, honey," Tipper shakes her head, walking over and massaging her husband's shoulders as he drops into a chair and puts his head in his hands. "Calm down. This ain't the end of the world." "No, it's the end of me," Gore sighs. "That's even worse. If I had won, there would have been at least a 50% chance Ted could have pulled off his plan to help Lord Gothmenes take over the world. Now that I've lost, there's a 75% chance he'll blame me for the failure and want to kill me. This can't be happening!" "Come now, sweetie-pie," Tipper clucks. "You can survive this. You invented pants, the Internet, Islam…" Liebermann grimaces and cuts in. "Maybe we can still snatch victory from the brink, Al. This election is very close. If we can keep holding out as long as possible and fighting effectively…" "Or maybe there's another way!" Gore cuts in suddenly, looking up. "What?" Liebermann frowns. "We're gonna do something no Presidential candidate in history has ever before tried!" Gore declares, smiling evilly. "What, Al?" Tipper asks, quickly getting excited and rubbing her hands together. "What?" "We're going to kill Bush!" Gore declares, slamming his fist on the desk triumphantly. "And his wife?" Tipper squeals. "I've been wanting that woman's head ever since the voters called her a better potential First Lady!" "Yes, of course we'll kill her too," Gore grins. "All we need is a plan! And to get it done before inauguration. Without him there to accept his votes, they'll have to give the Presidency to me!" "Al, hold on!" Liebermann cuts in frantically. "Let's be reasonable here. You can't kill W. If you kill him, you go to jail! You can't be President if you're in jail!" "I won't get caught doing it, Joseph!" Gore insists. "Geez, you Orthodox Jews should be smarter. And more trusting! I'm already getting a plan, and it's gonna be foolproof, I tell you, foolproof!" "Oh, Al, please tell me," Tipper begs. "I'm dying to know!" "Al, whatever it is, you best forget it!" Liebermann counters. "No good can come of this! I'll help you if I have to, I really want you to be President so we can get those moral censorship amendments passed and all, but this…this is just going too far!" "Shut up, Joseph," Gore glares at him, grinning as he turns back to Tipper. "You're not gonna be much part of this anyway. You're just gonna help me run interference with the media. Tipper and I will handle the actual kill. Let's get my Lawyer-Commandos in here, Tip, they're part of the plan. Then, for a kiss, I'll tell you everything, honeybunch." Tipper snarls and crosses her arms, turning away and causing Gore to frown. Liebermann meanwhile sighs and shakes his head, wondering why he ever shacked up with the right-hand man of the President he denounced and despised so much.

The display changes to Gar's chamber in Thailog's secret base, where the evil mage is cackling as he continues to pull information out of Lithanne's head. "Ooh, these Black Ravens do sound quite formidable," he laughs. "But no match for me surely. I bet their wizard doesn't even have his own power gem, let alone master gem!" Sneering, he waves his hand and prepares to extract the next fact using the circlet of domination he has put on the female elf when the room's door opens and Shadow Wolf walks in. "What is it?" Gar asks, turning around. "Some minions of mine whom I sent to look for the Black Ravens and test them have come under attack," Shadow Wolf answers. "Winter Blade and War Frost are with the Ravens now, or at least in the same area. They are slaughtering my Twisted Ones even now." "Your minions do not concern me!" Gar snaps. "I know, Master," Shadow Wolf bows. "But the Ravens' new allies do. They are quite dangerous, to me especially." Grimacing, he changes the subject. "The base is also under attack again. Those intruders Kharsus's fire imps and Zale's soldiers chased off are back. Since you seemed to know a lot about them, Thailog wanted me to come get you." Gar smiles, waving his hand and causing Lithanne to gasp as boils break out on her skin. "So your foolish friends have returned, eh? They shall not find us as easily penetrated this time. Soon they will be hanging beside you, in domination circlets or as corpses. Treasure the image." Caressing Lithanne's body in a way that makes Shadow Wolf shiver as she moans in protest, the evil mage takes out his master gem and stares into its depths. After a long moment, he nods. "Let us go. Take me to Thailog." "Yes sir," Shadow Wolf nods, and turns to the door. The screen goes blank as Gar follows him out of the room, leaving Lithanne alone to hyperventilate and struggle against her chains, then scream as the domination circlet shocks her and pass out.

**BOTH THESE THREADS WILL CONTINUE. FOR NOW END THIS RP**

Hi everyone. Back in here to catch up, once again. :) Glad to hear that so many of you had a good Thanksgiving. I did too, despite the fact that Mom forgot to make cranberry sauce, the turkey was nearly overcooked, and Ray and his family's plane was delayed, so they got in three hours late. I hate waiting at airports! <grimace> But the time with my family was worth it, and the food that did get fixed properly was good, and altogether I had a nice holiday. And now I'm back in my usual life, dealing with all the problems of school and work. <grin> Stephanie's gaining weight quickly as the days go by, and going nuts about it. I keep telling her there's no avoiding it, feels like she's only slightly listening. :( Doug and our other guy friends picked out some tuxes for the wedding yesterday at her demands, but we have not yet ordered anything and I'm sensing Keith is growing increasingly frustrated by Stephanie's continued wedding obsession. I am too- for crying out loud, it's seven months away! Maybe he can talk her into forgetting it, it's driving us all banannas. In other news, Doug's company is facing another major problem, a scheduling conflict due to one officer's car continually breaking down and two others having more than one job combined with a crackdown by the WalMart District Loss Prevention Supervisor, Don Arrick, on anything and everything officers are doing that is not purely professional. Doug has to wear a police jacket when on duty now instead of his warmer hunting jacket, and also had to buy and now has to wear uncomfortable black shoes (he likes brown hiking boots, Abel had no problem with them, Don Arrick does), but thankfully that's all my honey has had to deal with. Another officer was caught talking on a store pay phone while on duty late at night for forty minutes (he was told not to do that again, disciplined), a second was just sitting in one place for hours on end (he was disciplined too), a third was disturbing customers with loud rap music (Abel confiscated his radio), and that's just the stuff Doug's heard about so far. <shakes head> Good to be catching these problems, I know, but if they keep up, Abel may have to let the problematic individuals go- and that will create a shortage of officers, which is even worse than having bad ones on duty. Doug's worried about it all, as am I. Thank goodness my job isn't currently undergoing any major problems- two employees quit last weekend, but we found good replacements yesterday. I pray our luck continues, and Doug's gets better. <sigh> That's all the updates I have to report for now. Hope everyone likes the above RP on the election, it's going to develop into a big thread in upcoming posts as the recount mess goes on. :) On to comments and replies.

Lain: What can I say? <sighs> Truth is, I honestly don't know. All the problems in your life amaze me, how can God heap so much in one person's lap at once and expect them to come out sane? Well, you're dealing with it all admirably, so there must be some way. :) But damned if I know it. The best advice I can probably give is to wait all this out and try to separate yourself from the conflicts you should not be a part of, like your instructor's divorce, or your roommate wanting to live apart from you. They don't want to like you, indulge them and stay away. If you have to live alone, so be it. Sooner or later you will be able to deal with things, and you can always find new and better friends somewhere if you must- we in the CR can even volunteer. <shrugs> I know it might sound hard to do that, but it is possible. When one must adapt to a situation, one does, and quickly in most cases. As for your sucidal friend, well, I can empathize with her. I've been on the brink of suicide myself- it ain't pretty, nor is it fun. Nor was it the right thing to do, but I unfortunately only found that out after I tried killing myself. <sighs> Five years I've lived since then so far, and given the choice I would gladly live them again. I never would have had to suffer from Gus or wedding-crazy Stephanie or a host of other less recent problems, true, but I would also have never met Doug, found out about this room, or gotten to enjoy so many other wonderful things. Thus I am thankful the doctors were able to save me and my family was able to convince me not to try suicide again. Thankful for my life, which I am living. Problems may seem bad, they may beat you down, but eventually they all go away and we can move on. The sooner we are able to, the better it is for us. :) Hope your friend is able to move on soon, feel free to tell her what I've said. I hope it has a good result, and she remembers that even though bad times are around you, good ones are still on the way. It's always darkest before the dawn, we just have to wait it out and deal with what we have to. Good luck with the problems, to both her and you. Also sorry to hear about yoru fish dying and the accidents you've witnessed, hope you stop seeing them soon. Hearing about accidents here in Austin as Doug and I do every day is bad enough, but seeing them…<shakes head> Hope you at least are able to give good eyewitness accounts of them to the police, maybe even save a life or two if circumstances are right, if things continue to go on like this. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

SOROW: Well, was your Thanksgiving bad as you expected or better than you hoped? Hope you'll tell us soon? :) Congratulations on turning 18, that's a very important step on the road to achieving personal freedom. Not as important as gaining self-confidence, but important. :) It was Doug, not me, who mentioned your newfound freedom from the statutory rape law, but I do share his views on sex and yours. :) Responsible sex for everyone, served best with love. <grin> Hope you soon are able to enjoy that latter bit. Hope your life is less busy soon too, we've missed you a lot in here too. Come back soon, friend, and don't let the hormones make you too crazy. :)

Warpmind: Glad the scars are faint to nonexistent and the wounds have healed nicely. :) Glad your enemy is in a hospital too, hope he's not being treated too well by the doctors. And if prison isn't on the way for him, well at least they'll probably be keeping him away from you. I've heard what you have about Diana's extremely faithful getting endowed with special abilities too, though I've never seen it in action. Shap has the opinion that God grants similar gifts to those who choose to devote themselves to his faith. And many say he has such abilities. I think he just has naturally great instincts, strength, and self-confidence and wants to thank something other than his genes and friends for them, but sometimes I wonder…<shrugs> I believe in God too, just not as much. I feel I should mention this too- Shauna may not be Dianic Pagan, but she does have many things she feels she must do to shoot her best- completely unbind her breasts, make her own equipment, observe a quarry for at least twenty minutes unnoticed when hunting…the list goes on. I'm sure you have your fencing quirks too, just like most every ball player has his lucky socks. Decent action-adventure series idea, wouldn't mind seeing it in actual production someday. Just be sure you get great writers and don't have Fox show it. :) Sorry once again about the Wilek mistake.

DPH: I would definitely support that lawsuit if you go through with it. Your company needs to remember your condition. I hope they do soon, and that you are also able to find a good chiropractor or masseuse to help with the pain. Good luck. With your budget too, and getting your Christmas wishes.

Coyote: Hope you enjoyed the Thanksgiving football as much as Dad, Uncle Matt, and Ray- It was very difficult for Mom and me to pull them away from the TV (no help from Anne, she had to take care of little Julia!), so it must have been entertaining somewhat. <shrugs> Congrats on getting full use of your left hand back, I'm relieved to hear it. May you never suffer such a terrible accident again. :) Also glad you haven't forgotten WCC, may you soon find your notes. If not, well, you can always improvise. Good luck.

Green Baron: If only there was justice in history. <sighs> I really dislike Puritans too. Thanks for the entertaining bit, hope you especially will enjoy what we're gonna be doing with Bush and Gore in the RP. Feel free to join in if you want, just please leave the big confrontations and killing of one or the other to us. We do have our plans, and we hope to get them done before inauguration. Muhahahah! :) <sighs> Sorry your Thanksgiving didn't go well, at least it's over now. And I'm sure none of the bad stuff was your fault. Hope things with your mother improve eventually…she is your mom, even if you're currently on bad terms. Good luck. Wish you didn't need it, but from the way it sounds…:(

Winterwolf: The dress is indeed beautiful. <grins as she imagines herself in it> And I already have 5% of the money I need to buy it, am saving. :) Thanks for the encouragement, hope it doesn't have to keep coming in too much longer. <sighs>

Christine: Glad your Thanksgiving was so great, especially that you discovered Krispy Kremes. I too really like eating them, too- they're better than real donuts, and Doug agrees. :) Glad Disneyland was fun for your family so much. It's been forever since I visited it, hope to again someday. Hope you get to do the same someday too, and have just as much fun as the latest time. Glad you and Dylan are in a good relationship also, though I do hope he stops with the goat impersonations quickly. :) Sorry to hear about your book going out of print, but at least you now have a lot more copies to sell people. <grins and shrugs> Looking forward to Archmage of the Universe and the next Dissidents story, no matter what it contains.

Robby: Busy….One should never be busy on Thanksgiving. <sigh> Except if one has to be, and you obviously did. Hope you got those projects finished well, and if not, that you are able to do it soon. Good luck, friend. :)

Niamhgold: Well, gorged with both food and love is the way one is supposed to feel after a good Thanksgiving. :) Glad that you got to feel it, friend. Hope that you didn't gain too many pounds though. Don't worry, the stuffed feeling soon will go away if it hasn't already. :) BTW, what is Black Friday? I've never heard of it, and now that you've mentioned the day, I have to know what it's about. Please tell me.

Lynati: What about the red band? You didn't explain that one. :) Glad you had such a great Thanksgiving, thanks for the stuffing. <indulges in eating it> Good bit about Spike and Buffy, thanks for it too. I can definitely see evidence of its truth in this season's episodes. Hope they continue to show us the thread and develop it well. :)

Jaden: <tries to make her cheers heard over the crickets> I'd support you for President. Just pray you could stand the media attention. :) Hope you get to run for real someday, good luck if so! Happy that your Thanksgiving was nice too.

**MOVIE AND SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON SPOILERS, REVIEWS**
Everyone- Go see Unbreakable. I can not emphasize that enough. This movie is not like Sixth Sense at all except for the director, star, and inclusion of a surprise ending. It is way better than Sixth Sense in terms of story, acting, and everything else a good movie should have. Comic book fans will enjoy it especially, as will fans of Bruce Willis, Samuel Jackson, or Robin Wright Penn, and psychology junkies. The movie is truly amazing, the first great film of the heavy Oscar-contender season. David Dunne has become my favorite Willis character, taken John McLane's place. The film is funny, scary, exciting, emotional…I've said enough, and I haven't even spoiled the plot any. Go see it- now! :) See X-Men Evolution too if you haven't been watching it already. They had another great new episode this week, with more excellent animation and a great portrayal of Blob as an interesting villain. Great development on Scott, Jean, and Rogue too, thought I'm still not exactly a fan of the way the latter is drawn. Hope they keep up the great stories, and that sooner or later we get one about the X-Men wondering why so many of their old friends and foes are showing up at their school. They'll have to notice it eventually for things to keep their great sense of realism! :)
**SPOILERS END**

Todd: I agree with you about Xavier and Magneto keeping mutants out of the public eye in X-Men: Evolution, though seeing more of how exactly they're doing that would be nice. <shrugs> I hope we see Sentinels in the show someday- I liked them in the old Fox X-Men cartoon-, though I also agree that it probably won't be soon. Dr. Bolivar Trask was the guy who designed and built the Sentinels for Gyrich's government faction, by the way, just in case you were also wondering about him. Thanks for correcting me about GXB, I apologize. Still share his fears about Magneto, of course. <grin>

Archwolf: Good luck on exams, since you have them coming up soon too. Congrats on the great Thanksgiving, and to your sister on her impending marriage. Thank goodness my parents have no problem with couples living together before the wedding (maybe cause they did it in the late 1960s- nightmare! :). Doug's are like yours about it, unfortunately. :( Good luck to your sister and her love just thesame. And to you. $ Welcome back to the RP also, once again. Glad to see your characters in the Mall with us- hope you can wait till Doug's next post before we deal with the direct effects of Winter Blade's wailing on the people who were closest to her when she did it. So many scenes to write and create, so little time…:) $ Glad you're still fencing too, hope you can uncover the coach's corruption if it exists. Good luck, and may you continue and enjoy your hobby as long as you can. :) Congrats on making friends in IM too. :)

Lady Corax: I'd support you for Empress of America too. Better you than Hillary. :) I agree with you about Nightcrawler on X-Men: Evolution- he is fun. I too hope to see Jubilee soon. Maybe. Also hope to see White Queen, Beast, and Mr. Sinister on the show too someday, the latter might be fun as a creepy science teacher who turns out to be a powerful insane mutant. <grins at the creativity demons forming> We shall see.

**X-FILES SPOILERS**
Decent episode this week. The plot wasn't that great, too much in it that's been done before, but the cult was creepy and there was good mystery woven into things. Nice job on further developing Doggett and Scully's relationship, though, and their characters. We shall see where things go next. Hopefully by the time they have to take on the Grays again and save Mulder, these two will be fully compatible battle partners, trusting in each other and confident in their mutual ability to fight the good fight. :) Hope we get to see Krycek and CSM again eventually too, it'd be nice. At least we got a more potentially interesting episode previewed for next week.
**END THESE SPOILERS, PART 1 OF POST**
Kitainia - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:49:40 AM
IP: pool-63.52.128.57.dlls.grid.net

Hi ya'll. I'm sick. I have a doctor's appointment on Friday, if I live that long.

Uncommoncon was cool. (of course, since I've been too busy to post, you guys don't even know what Uncommoncon was...) I played a cool card/board game called (if I recall) Super Giant Monster Showdown. I also played in a nifty little supers game designed by some friends of some friends of somebody I'm not speaking with anymore.

Anyway, Azrael was complaining that there hasn't been any fodder for a good argument lately, so I'm doing him a favor:

DEMONA IS EVIL!

That is all. Thank you for your kind attention.
(That's usually good for some harsh words :>)
Bye.

David G - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 10:12:08 PM
IP: 198.215.20.222

Sev. Jr.> <>: Heck yeah. I'm so glad we've got some kind of power flushing going on up at the dorm. I don't know how many times I've stopped up the toilet at home, but that really shouldn't be gotten into.

Welcome Kirshanta.

Kyryn> <>: As do I. You are quite welcome.

Gunjack> <<There's a great Gside quote for this>>: I really wish I remember what I said. That's the problem when you keep saying odd things, they all start to run together. The closest I could think of would be "Thank you sir may I have another" and "Again, Harder," but I don't think I've actually said those.
<>: Depends on if your glasses block the frequency of the light used. I'm pretty sure the MIB would make sure to use a frequency that is hard to filter out. They could probably block it with normal glasses that are just slightly tinted blue.
<<why, now that they don't have a USSR standing behind them any more, we still haven't ground Castro into dogmeat?>>: We just don't care enough any more. That, and it would probably turn into some big international incident for us interfering in some other country's political processes (so overtly, that is).
<<The Athenaverse (who HASN'T read this?)>>: Started, never got around to finishing.
<<Schindler's List (anyone NOT seen this one either?)>>: Yo. Right here. Oh, and for your list, how about Gilliam's dreamer trilogy (Time Bandits, Brazil, Baron Munchausen)?
<<web comics. They're a renewable resource>>: Amen to that my brother, amen.
<<Nonsense Constest!>>: CRFH? I rather like Roger.
<<What is this "Joecartoon"?>>: Joe is a, for lack of a better word, artist proficient with Flash animations. He is most famous for his MicroGerbil and Frog in a Blender. And I must say that Supa Fly II will extend your trash talk proficiency.
<<But I enjoy the zen of doing it manually>>: But there's something to be said for seeing these enimies appear on the screen and immediately dissappear, assuming you are holding the select button down.
<<Fezzik, jog his memory>>: I'm sorry Inigo. I didn't mean to jog him so hard.
<<Never go up against a sicilian, when DEATH is on the line!>>: Iocaine! I'd bet my life on it.
<<Screw the size, it's the COLD that does 'em in>>: Well, if it was only a small little strip of cold (like over the top of the Alps), it isn't as bad, but there's so much of it that there's no way to get out. Especially if everything burnable has already been burnt.
<<I've been listening to these two tracks CONTINUOUSLY since you posted them>>: Well, I think the MTC seems to be consistantly good, and I have a certain fondness for symphonic arrangements.

DPH> <<If you could have anything in the world>>: "The girl with the... UZI. Is she single?" Sorry, I've been doing too many quotes.

Courtney> <>: Sorry, but not quite, you extended the description of your goals, but the process is the more important part.
<<sorry for geting ppl mad>>: You didn't really, except for the near spamming. It's just the people tend to want more details before they commit.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 09:50:53 PM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

S.O.G. Kay you ppl have asked for the facts so I'll give you all that I know. Frist I am a follower of a leader of a group that is trying to bring gargoyles back. The leader's name is Demona. You might have already seen her posts in here before.Demona has put me in charge of breing on new ppl to our group. Demona's plan is to have gars back on in the fall of 2003. We well give you more info, if you wanting to join about this. I hope I did a better job at explaning stuff this time sorry for geting ppl mad. That the bacis facts that I wanted to but in thank you for reading this.
Angela (member name)
Courtney - [elisagirl2000@go.com]
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 09:33:43 PM
IP: adsl-pool28-98.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

Hiya All, just a little post before I tackle my homework.

Sevarius JR> all I have to say is AMEN on the toilets. 3.5's should definetly come back..

*Spoliers for the Grinch*
I saw this like the second day it came out, but I keep on forgetting to say anything about it. Anyway, Im really happy the way the movie came out. At first, I cringed slightly when I heard that Jim Carrey was to be the Grinch. Then I realised, who else has better facial expressions than him? The movie turned out to be really cute, and my brother and I were laughing the whole time. Go see it!
**End Spoliers**

Kirshanta> Welcome to the room, please submit your sanity in a jar =)

:::waves to GB and XenaTrek:::

Anonymous> What was the big deal that Brooklyn was chosen second in command? Well, there are many different opinions for it, but I'll just give you mine. For one thing, the trio are all fine gargoyles in their own right. However, when it comes to maturity (and they all had a long road) Brooklyn was the one who matured the quickest (of course this is IMAO)Now, why would fans see this as a great accomplishment? Well, Brook has always been a looker for the ladies.. and the guys like the bad ass appeal of a gargoyle on a motocycle. Hmm.. what else... Well, I'll probably come back to this if need be..

Courtney> We're all trying to save Gargoyles. The best way is to try to get to the Gathering out in LA. There's gonna be a ton of guests, and the fandom is gonna prove to Disney that Gargoyles will survive no matter what.

Election> Well.. Bush is arrogant, and Gore is boring. I just wanna know who our president will be.

Okay! thats all for now, my hw is screaming to be worked on.
Oh right, and Im also shamless plugging for another aunt and uncle of mine =)
bye for now!

Bronx
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 07:02:15 PM
IP: spider-wd032.proxy.aol.com

*Lynati enters, rubbing her elbows.*
Ow.
why, you may ask, have I just spent the last two and a half hours rolling around on a cement (smooth) floor?
Foundations assignments, of course!
Having only two weeks left, our class is now doing entirely Gestural art. No supplies; Just your body in space. They had us writhing on the floor for about half the experiments. One of them, they had all 17 of us lie down side by side, then the person at the beginning used the rest of us as a human conveyor belt and rolled on over-problem was, there was no time to move the line up and it ended right next to the wall. I ended up under at least two layers of people...so it wasn't all bad };)
It ended with the entire class moving around on their backs, pretending to be sperm. I kid you not.
Ah, the trials of college life....

Kirshanta: part of the reason that the current conversation is not very gargoyles-oriented is the fact that "Pendragon" just ended for the season, and none of the other series have started up just yet. (although, I have noticed the difference of topics from the few months I've been here as compared to the CR archives. early on, it was All gargoyles. I think this place, the people in it, have grown to something more since the early days. The show may have brought everyone together, but it's friendship that keeps us here.)
* Hand reaches out through curtains, hands Lynati a big shiny award*
Hey! I was being serious, not dramatic, D@&n you!
Nrrrg.
Anyway...
I've got a box to make. & stories to write. I'll be back later.

DPH: my guess for the riddle, which I haven't read, is Bronco. Just Because.

*Lynati Exits*
Lynati
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 06:59:04 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

**RIDDLE**
Ok, admittedly, I did not have an answer for that riddle. But the animals had two things in common: 1)never been used as a zord on power rangers; 2) more importantly, they are all animals people are either afraid of for no reason [spider, snake] or should be afraid of [vulture, scorpion]. Judging from the responses of zebra, bat, or worm, I most inclined to pick bat. If no one can come up with a better animal, Winterwolf gets the all those cybercookies.
**END RIDDLE**

Oops, I overlooked Daniel Johnson's return on Saturday.

I worked on a budget and I figured out that I will not be able to move out on my own for a long time. I will be stuck living with an idiot for a while.

Since Thanksgiving has past, I want to ask a simple question. If you could have anything in the world for Christmas, what would you have? I would pick 2 things: no more back pain and normal emotional well-being.

Reminder, Brooklyn, I am waiting for you to post in the BFTS RP before continuing on.
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 06:24:19 PM
IP: max1-35.cwy.cei.net

I rediscovered just how addictive good books can be over the last few days. I had all kinds of things to do, but I couldn't seem to put the book down for more than a minute... 8|

Warpmind><<Things seem to be cooling down in Kosovo these days... y'know what I mean?>> Ouch. I'd say "Poor Bugger", but he DID try to make a canoe out of a friend... <<I'm not female, you *swats Gunjack Valentine soundly.*>> There's a great Gside quote for this, but I won't go there. <<Irish Coffee - not just whiskey and coffee! There's whipped cream and brown sugar too (at least in the recipe I'm following!)>> I don't *moan* drink *droool*...
<<Yo, guys. I'd explain this situation, but... *Pulls up a neuralyzer. After a few seconds, he still stands there, but the gun is gone, and the dwellers have no recollection of the gun ever being there.*>> Um, I wear sunglasses at all times... It's where I keep my HUD system. So would a nueralizer work on me? o_O
<<Oh, well, then I misunderstood - I was given the impression that Clinton had resigned...>> Don't we wish... ; P
<<Y'know, next time your sister and her BF...>> Oh, BOYFRIEND! ...No, not like that, sorry. You'll get it later... : P

Caliope><<...and YES Ooooo the Cubans too! That scares you guys, doesnt it...*>> The rest don't, but the Cuban part definately irritates me. Could someone explain to me why, now that they don't have a USSR standing behind them any more, we still haven't ground Castro into dogmeat? Heck, even if the people aren't being oppresed(*giggle* *snort*), we could at least liberate the tabacco farms...
Oh. But then, they'd fall under the lawsuits. Scratch that idea...
<<LOL Oh posh! I dont need no stinkin' coffy, man!!!!>> Personally, I can't get up before 9 AM without either coffee or music... : P <<Hand me a box of powdered jello and watch me go! ;P>> You're an inspiration to the world's huddled, exhausted, and suger-free masses... ; ) <<...and I'd apreciated if everyone now refer to me from now on as "The Shiny Special One" or "Your Creamy Coolness" :P>> Whoa... Can she *SAY* that?

Daphne><<And since the teacher has no proof of who did the assignment first (of course, she can't check the computers for the "last modified" date and time, right?>> Were these people born stupid, or did they have to work at it? <<So, just because my classmates decided to be lazy, my GPA (and with it, my rank) is in danger.>> I suggest that all users of the paper be placed in a cunningly constructed labyrinthine arena of my own design, wherein they will not only fight to the death against EACH OTHER, but ALSO against a fiendish array of deathtraps designed to prey upon their sense of complacency! (cybercookie for the Pphrase...)
Of course, since you're the one in the right, we'll be providing you with significant... *assistence*... o_O
And don't worry about the triple post... I *quadruple*-posted a few weeks ago, halfway through writing a post!

Taleweaver><<Someone asked when it all becomes official and binding.>> Actually, I was asking why a candidate should be able to simply recount and challenge indefinately. Since then, I've recognized the facts that: a) Appeals are a nescessary part of the system, and b0 Gore's got nothing, and he's just digging his own grave deeper to keep persueing the issue. Which, given the givens, is *just fine* with me...
Even if the court were to switch to "Anionted" mode and hand the election to Gore, I could live; as long as this were a PRECEDENT for future elections, and not a one-time ride for Mr. Gore...
<<I'm looking for something to read or watch that really fires up my imagination.>> Well, I don't know what you consider a good story, but here are MY favorites...
Fanfic - The Athenaverse (who HASN'T read this?), Edward Szetela(?), and Ranma 2096 (located elsewhere; also read all the converging plotlines, they kick rear). And if you can read all that by next summer, you need to get out more... o_O
Movies - The Mission, The Usual Suspects (this be the DEFINATIVE Spacey...), Schindler's List (anyone NOT seen this one either?), The Gods Must Be Crazy II (if you're in a silly mood), ANY of the Muppet movies before "...In Space" (Why are you all looking at me funny?), Les Miserables (the recent version), The Shawshank Redemption, and The Postman. And, just in case you just emerged from under a rock, the Princess Bride and the Matrix. Preferably back-to-back. o_O
And if all that's not enough, start reading web comics. They're a renewable resource...

Green Baron><<Well, I hope the violence didn't cross any lines, but James Carville had it coming...>> Ah yes, the wonderful Mr. Carville; a living testement to the triumph of *ideology* over rational thought. In another country and another time, he'd be the perfect Chekist... *starts sharpening his Ka-Bar*
<> So THAT'S where these "Votes that have never been counted, not once" are coming from... It all makes sense now. <<He is a big Government liberal, but so is Gore.>> *BUSH* is a lideral!? I'm so confused... o_O ...Though I think I'd join you in falling in behind stormin' Norman. <<As for evil and good, I'd peg Bush and Gore as Lawful Neutral, myself.>> The "Lawful" part slips a bit for Gore...
<<The word in Commandment 5 is not actaully kill but a loose translation of a Hebrew word meaning murder or something close to it.>> Huh? What does this have to do with witchcraft? And Murder is six, not five... <> What's the second one? The reference at the beggining of John? Also, were I to assume that the Bible had errors, it'D undercut the whole foundation of my faith... <<The book's title is Hitler's Pope.>> *Adds it to his reading list*

Revel><<No invasion this time my friend.>> Actually, it just means that things will be slightly more messy (and MUCH more fun... *evil grin*)

Mary><<Minus the part where I had to deal with my sister and her BF.>> I think you mean BS... *chuckles* ...sorry, I wouldn't have mentioned it, but I spent five minutes trying to figure out what kind of degree a "BF" was... ;D
("God Beth, why do you have to be interested in something strange and stupid like Japan?") >.< ("Why do you want to write fanfiction about somebody _else's_ work? Why can't you write your own stuff and publish it?")>> Add "Why don't you read LITURATURE?", and those are exact quotes from my brother. ; P <<"A ballerina with bright red hair, a fairy tattoo, and more piercings than I can count.">> *laughs 'till it hurts*

Lynati><<Incidently, did you know that the closest word that certain spellcheckers can come to for "Xanatos" is "Manatees" ?>> Nonsense Constest! ; )

Gside><<That applies to half his site.>> What is this "Joecartoon"? <<Yeah. It only belongs to detectives (with great themes).>> The little grey cells... : ) <<"Now what are you saying, the CIA caused the Managua earthquake?" "Well, I can't prove it, but...">> That has to be the best "hacker" movie I've ever seen... <<It's basically standard with windows. If it isn't under programs/accessories/entertainment, you should be able to install it from the windows CD.>> Cool! Thanks! : D <<It makes level building much less tedius.>> Good point... But I enjoy the zen of doing it manually... <<Well, the Prince and the Count always insist on everyone being healthy before they're broken.>> Fezzik, jog his memory!
<<You've made your decision then?>> ...Never go up against a sicilian, when DEATH is on the line! Ahhahahahaha! Ahhahaha... *thud*
<<Yup, there must be something to that security by size thing they have going on. And Siberia doesn't hurt either.>> Screw the size, it's the COLD that does 'em in... It's hard to fight when your toes are autoamputating from frostbite. o_O
<<You can now find Ukranian Bell Carol/Carol of the Bells as performed by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and the East Pacific Symphony.>> We've already established that "you da man", and that "you ROCK", so I've got nothing left to say... Other than to state that I've been listening to these two tracks CONTINUOUSLY since you posted them...

SOROW><<Sorry, turning 18 has done something to my mind. It must be the hormones talking ;)>> As a veteran 18ish male, the only resoponce is... Heh. ; )

DPH><> Personally, I "...Hope for the best, and expect the worst". *shrugs* ...it's worked so far. <<Reminder: scorpion, spider, snake, and vulture.>> No one has an answer, because it's a hard riddle... *thinks a bit* ...Hmm. Maybe it has to do with the average number of limbs... In which case "worm" would bring it to an average of four each. o_O ...Don't ask where that came from.

Napster - Personaly, I'm the *exact* type of guy the companies are trying to squash. I download gads of music, and never buy albums... But on the other hand, I used to just tape all my music off the radio, and no one ever bothered me about that... *shrugs* ...And frankly, I fail to see the difference.

Lain - *reads through the list* ...You guys have too many parties. Though that "Marijauna Party" sounds kinda interesting... ; )
So the Liberals are in control over there? Then is Bush wins down here, we can get a bit of a comparison goin on...

SJ><<Screw the environment, I want a goddamned tsunami in my toilet every time I flush.>> Only in the TGS Comment Room, Folks! ; )

Kirshanta><<I'm the new girl on the block - never been here (hell never even been in a comment room before!).>> Welcome. Please deposit all sanity in the box marked "for future world domination", and make yourself at home... ; ) <> Scary, isn't it? <<but I guess you can only say so much on one given subject.>> True, but we never seem to run out of new ones... : )

Slow week. I'm off to sketch and read...

Peace, Love, Dope
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 05:03:32 PM
IP: 209-223-253-99.ausa.net

***Kyryn peers in.***

I heard from Skippy. He is currently without his own computer and therefore has limited net access. He says hello to everyone and that he will be back when he gets another machine.

Revel> Ah, you found Recycled Books and Records ;) - IMHO one of the best used bookstores that I've ever seen. The place seems to have a space/time warp attached to it. I keep finding new sections.

Gside> Ooh! Carol of the Bells! Thanks. I love that song.

Courtney> I hate to say this, but we have already gone through a number of write-in campaigns, contact Disney campaigns, etc., over the years. If you've got a realistic (i.e., an in with someone in the industry who is actually genuinely interested in getting Disney to resurrect the property) idea about doing this, then please put up some basic info about where you are going with it.

Kirshanta> Welcome to the room.

Later All!

***Kyryn ducks out.***

Kyryn
Denton, TX
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 03:21:19 PM
IP: exofw.aicpa.org

...
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingletoln]
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 02:28:17 PM
IP: 209-223-253-99.ausa.net

What's the Big Deal--> Can anyone tell me why some people think that it was a great accomplishment of Brooklyn's to be chose as second-in-command? It's not as if Goliath had that many candidates to choose from. No offense but the 3 candidates he did have, really weren't great second-in-command material. I'm sure if the massacre hadn't happened and something happened to Demona, that all three of them would have not even been in consideration. So...what's the big deal?
Anonymous
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 02:09:33 PM
IP: bess-proxy.bethel.wednet.edu

Hey!
I'm the new girl on the block - never been here (hell never even been in a comment room before!).
I just got quite the kick out of reading all your comments - pretty funny stuff some of you. i couldn't help but notice how little anyone actually spoke of Gargoyles, but I guess you can only say so much on one given subject.
Point in fact - I've said all I had to say about nothing. If anyone's interested in chatting, I peek in a couple of times a day between 9am and 5 pm (Montreal time). Drop me a note and I'll answer it.
Ciao!!
Kirshanta - [kirshanta@yahoo.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 01:34:57 PM
IP: g68-101.citenet.net

What a sad day--Canada has a liberal majority. Oh well, I always knew that country was a little backwards. Well, I'm just gonna have to blame the French again.

I suppose I can't complain too much, though, because they actually have the sense enough to choose a leader in a competent fashion. There's nobody crying for recounts up there now is there?

But I recently discovered a fact that makes me believe that they're doing something right up there in the frigid north--they still have the old 3.5 gallon (liter?) toilets. God, how I love the 3.5s. Most people may not realize this--a few years ago, in a supremely stupid move on the part of Congress, they passed a law requiring all toilets to be only 1.6 gallon (or liter, I forget which). It's horrible! What an abuse of power. Now we got the government mandating what kind of toilet we take a dump in.

Anyway, I still love the old 3.5s. They're the Cadillacs of toilets, and they've been outlawed here in the States (join with me, GB--it's all a bunch of liberal tree-hugging nonsense! ;). To most of you, this may seem silly, but I like having a nice, aggressive flush when I depress that lever.

Screw the environment, I want a goddamned tsunami in my toilet every time I flush.
Sevarius Jr. - [bpoole@mailexcite.com]
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 09:25:48 AM
IP: 164.106.137.115

S.O.G. Save Our Gargoyles if you want gargoyles back on the air again email me so you can help us Please I know you want the gargoyles back or else you would not be reading this please email so you can help
Everyone that wants to know how you can email me and I'll tell you
Courtney - [elisagirl2000@go.com]
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 06:27:49 AM
IP: adsl-dynamic32-243.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

Okay, this note is going to be little more than a morose, frustrated rant about the difficulties of web design. So if you're not interested in self pity or technical stuff, you'd best skip it.

I'm working (ha ha!) on updating a web site for SHIP, the academic program I'm in. I'm actually pretty decent at web design. But it seems as though any time I try to do a project for someone else, I lose all my skills, my muse takes a vacation, and my tools decide to corrupt their executables.

Here are some examples of completed projects that I did on my own initiative for my own pleasure:

http://www.atuan.com/awdb/
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~martinwd/luadv/
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~martinwd/ship/

And then, we have the rough draft of my current project for the Smith Hall International Program:

http://www.atuan.com/ship/index-beta2.html

BLAH! It's ugly. And plain. I don't like the left-sided navigation menu at all, and my pop-up menus screw up royally on Macintosh comps -- something about the screen resolution means that the layers don't get positioned right and wind up in the oddest places in relation to their parent links. Maybe I'd better give up trying to write my own menu script and use the one from computerarts.co.uk.

The folks I'm working for want me to basically keep the layout seen in the current official pages at:

http://www.colorado.edu/OIE/ship/

Those pages have been up for a couple of years. They're okay. a bit prosaic, and I actually don't like the layout much at all. But there are conflicting bureaucrats involved here -- Jean Autrey is the head web-page lady for the University (I think) and has said that I must keep the current layout as much as possible. The lady I'm actually working for is Nancy Vanacore, a sweet lady who wants the page to be striking and pretty. IMHO, these two goals conflict directly with Jean Autrey's directive to keep the current layout. Sigh.

I don't know enough about making graphics. I have a bundle of tricks I've picked up from looking at other web sites, and from reading various books/magazines. But I don't have anything resembling training in layout or designing themes. I've thought that it might be interesting to play up the nautical theme of the SHIP program a bit, but I know nothing about boats. I live in a land-locked state. I've gone canoe camping, but by no stretch of imagination could a canoe be described as a ship.

Incidentally, does anyone know any tutorial sites for Strata 3D? It's a free-ware 3D computer graphics program which is actually quite capable. It has two main flaws. 1) Its user interface is NOT intuitive. 2) The free version has absolutely no documentation. Whatsoever. The "Help" menu has a "Web Resources" option which does *nothing,* and an "About" field that tells you what version you're using. The program is free to download, but you only get a manual if you buy the boxed version with CD-ROM for $40.

Well, I'd say that's probably enough self-pitying for now. I'd better stop writing before people start throwing things at me.
Selanit - [selanit@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 06:01:22 AM
IP: smit18-103-dhcp.resnet.colorado.edu

*Warpmind enters, carrying a BIG gun.*
Yo, guys. I'd explain this situation, but... *Pulls up a neuralyzer. After a few seconds, he still stands there, but the gun is gone, and the dwellers have no recollection of the gun ever being there.*

Fight update: Well, the guy who attacked me isn't coming back. Rumor around here now is that he's being sent back to Kosovo this week. With the words "Persona Non Grata in Norway" stamped in his passport. Ah, but life is good at times. ]:)

Jannie: No? Oh, well, then I misunderstood - I was given the impression that Clinton had resigned... Guess not, then...

Daphne: Ack! Look, isn't there something in the Geneva convention about collective punishment? 'Sides, as others here suggested, try to sway your teacher with older versions of your work...

Revel: I know that's the way it goes, unless the president resigns (like Nixon, I believe) or dies (like Kennedy), but apparently not so in this case... Clinton's just in his dead phase now, right?

Mary Flanders: Y'know, next time your sister and her BF ask you what's so great about Japan, answer "Ninjitsu". Oh, and try to get yourself one or two of the Okinawa weapons. ];) By the way... "punk ballerina"... *Snicker* Sounds... interesting... kinda like that good ol' Chinese curse... ]:)

Gside: Amigo, I *never* write anything big by hand. At most, I can be suspected to write an address by hand, but aside from that, I type *everything*. I'll try to send you the .txt file later. :)

Christine: Ah, you'll become the sole pusher of the Magelore books? Such fun! :)

DPH: Okay, let's get analytical here... We've got a tiny desert crawler with a poisonous stinger, a spider, a snake and a vulture... Hmmm... Nope, can't think of anything that might tie them together, except that "riddle me this" line... so, I'll agree with Winterwolf - Bat.

Well, that's about it for today. I'm expecting a couple of books now, so... later. (I ordered two books from Amazon.com - one grimoire on making magical artifacts, and that childrens' book... "God Bless the Gargoyles".)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 04:26:33 AM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

And har-dee har har, Nancy Branscombe of the Canadian Alliance lost in London-North-Centre..
You have no idea how happy that makes me.. she is a NASTY politician..
lain
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:54:41 AM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Here's some official results:

National summary: (301 seats; 151 required for majority)

Liberal Party of Canada:
4,764,110 votes
40.91 % of the popular vote
Leading in 28 ridings
Elected in 143 ridings
Total of 171 seats

Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance 2,921,532 votes
25.09 % of the popular vote
Leading in 6 ridings
Elected in 61 ridings
Total of 67 seats

Progressive Conservative Party
1,460,123 votes 12.54 % of the popular vote Leading in 3 ridings Elected in 9 ridings
Total of 12 seats

Bloc Quebecois
1,250,929 votes
10.74 % of the popular vote
leading in 11 ridings
elected in 27
Total of 38 seats

New Democratic Party
997,514 votes
8.57 % of the popular vote
Leading in 1 riding
Elected in 12 ridings
Total of 13 seats

The Green Party of Canada
87,503 votes
0.75 % of the popular vote
Elected in 0 ridings
Leading in 0 ridings
Total of 0 seats

Marijuana Party 56,986 votes
0.49 % of the popular vote
Leading in 0 ridings
Elected in 0 ridings
Total of 0 seats

No Affiliation
33,647 votes
0.29 % of the popular vote
Elected in 0 ridings
Leading in 0 ridings
Total of 0 seats

Canadian Action Party
22,586 votes 0.19 % of the popular vote
Leading in 0 ridings
Elected in 0 ridings
Total of 0 seats

Independent
17,226 votes
0.15 % of the popular vote
Leading in 0 ridings
Elected in 0 ridings
Total of 0 ridings

Natural Law Party of Canada
14,973 votes
0.13 % of the popular vote
Leading in 0 ridings
Elected in 0 ridings
Total of 0 seats

Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada
10,787 votes
0.9 % of the popular vote
Leading in 0 ridings
Elected in 0 ridings
Total of o ridings

Communist Party
7,810 votes
0.7 % of the popular vote
Leading in 0 ridings
Elected in 0 ridings
Total of 0 seats

Total votes: 11,645,726
Eligible voters (est.): 21,400,000

lain
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:51:13 AM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

SOROW> <HUGS AND GROSS STUFF> m'kay. I hope this means your life is looking good. ^_^
Doug> Beware the calm and serenity of the eye of the storm! A lesson for myself at least.
Archwolf> Glad to hear it. :)
Daniel Johnson> To a happy return. Welcome back.
Niamhgold> Hi.
Caliope> **HUG** I didn't see Roswell yet. I guess it's on too early at 9PM... :P
DPH> I'll say bat. Just because of the "Riddle me this and riddle me that" which reminds me of a Batman movie.

Winterwolf
Bronx, NY
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:34:29 AM
IP: 206.15.120.89

YES! I finally got the Hood Theatre site updated! I spent a few months overhauling the entire page, which was slapped together two years ago by a Communications major who didn't know what she was doing (she told me that herself). I'm SO happy!! (I've still got to put together one more photo gallery, but that update can wait later.) Click my name to see why I'm so happy.

Elections> Both candidates are trying to mess with the vote. I'm equally irritated at Bush and Gore: Bush for trying to beat down the recounts in the off chance they might hurt him, and Gore for pushing for too much recounts. They're both slowing things up.

As for who wins: Either way, I still wish McCain got the nomination.

Napster debate> Ehh. My Napster use has actually resulted in my buying MORE albums - I never would have gone and dug up that old Refreshments album otherwise. I kind of understand where some musicians are coming from, but at the same time I'm vehemently against shutting Napster down. They complain about users who go on to get tracks from albums they could buy in a store - but what about users who are trying to find tracks from albums that are no longer in print? I've been trying for months to find some MP3's from the '86 "Running Scared" soundtrack. I'm not violating copyrights - my mother's copy of the tape died last year, and they're not making the album any more. Napster is the only way I can find songs from the soundtrack.

Courtney> Oh, don't even TALK to me about save-our-show campaigns... "Now and Again" just aired its last episode in Australia, and I got 26 e-mails over break from ticked-off viewers in Australia who just found out CBS cancelled it before it started running in their country. *sigh*

Lynati> Quark XPress? **shudders involuntarily** Sorry. 3am layout sessions coming back to me.

Daphne> If you don't have previous drafts you can show her, ask her if she can issue the assignment again - or give you a similar assignment, not identical to the first one but based on the same principle. That way, you can prove to her you knew what you were doing and didn't copy. I had a Statistics prof who gave take-home exams. Some students cheated and copied off someone else's high-scoring exam. The prof got wind of this, but didn't know who was responsible. Instead of failing people left and right, he singled out the people whose high-scoring tests seemed to match - and he made us all do a re-test. Yeah, it was more work, but he gave us time and I got an A.

(If nothing else works, talk to your parents. If they know you're not the type to rip off someone else's paper, they might back you up - and maybe your teacher will listen to them. I'm not saying they should raise a fuss, but that they might be able to get through to the teacher.)
Mandolin
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:18:33 AM
IP: 144.175.21.16

*lain enters, wafting party balloons and those little whistly roll-up party noisemakers*

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
LIBERAL MAJORITY GOVERNMENT!!!!YAHOOOOO!!!!

*meniacal laughter*

Ha ha AND they won with a higher majority than they did last time, which is a new one!!
And Stockyard only got 2 seats in Ontario TWO!!! Hehe heheh eheheheh..
*lain dances out to find more news*

Exhuberence!!!
:)

lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:17:18 AM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

OK, All I said was "officially" the United States is the only contry never to have "lost" a War. I didn't say we hadn't lost one "in fact." There is a difference.

Italy- They did, too, lose a war. WWII. They surrendered to Allied forces before the march on Germany began.

GB- Yeah, they did. So did mine <I'm a Texan, remember> and if the Confederated States of America ever refoms it would not be able to make the same claim as the United States can.

Polotics Stuff- I say the Joint Chiefs just take over and rule for about a year and a half and then hold elections agian. If we can't agree on a president by then we have no hope. ;)

Later All
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Monday, November 27, 2000 11:50:01 PM
IP: 198.215.20.219

DPH>(makes a probably stupid spontatanerous guess) zebra
James Birdsong - [<-takes this test peoples]
78% unbreakable by sea
Monday, November 27, 2000 11:19:17 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-128-119.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

**RELIGIOUN/POLITICS**
My pastor is/was trying so hard to straddle the fence about not endorsing Bush it is/was not funny. I do not mind preaching from the pulpit about 'moral' issues, but endorsing a candidate whole heartedly based only on moral issues

All it would take for Bush to get my 100% endorsement is a promise not to attempt to dismantle OSHA and the EPA and a promise to do the right thing for EVERYBODY not just businesses and wealthy individuals.
**END RELIGION/POLITICS**

Gunjack, ok, maybe I was being overly pessimistic. It's hard when you have both optimism and pessimism (spelling?) inside of you at the same time and trying to figure which one is the better choice. I used to overly optimistic about everything.

Riddle me this and riddle me that
and I will tell no person has an answer for completing my set of animals. Reminder: scorpion, spider, snake, and vulture.

!!klofs onw lal t'aths :Ont Ti Vielebe
!Em Ofrm Adoty PR TFBS ON

DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Monday, November 27, 2000 10:38:14 PM
IP: max1-56.cwy.cei.net

*A somehwat giddy Archwolf enters the CR*

Hey all, back in the saddle, as it were. Fencing still...for now.

I just told an original tale over IM to a person, and she LIKED it. If feel sooo happy!

Katara> *Pounce Hug* Hey, welcome back! I hear you about never having enough dark meat on a turkey

SOG> Out of curiosity, what can you do that we have not?

Well, gotsta get going
Shade and sweet water
Archwolf
Monday, November 27, 2000 10:17:36 PM
IP: viking202-88.dhcp.csuohio.edu

SJ> I fully agree with you man!
Gunjack> Sorry, turning 18 has done something to my mind. It must be the hormones talking ;)
SOROW
Monday, November 27, 2000 09:43:45 PM
IP: a010-0007.dll2.splitrock.net

S.O.G. Save our gargoyles If you want gargoyles back on the air email me and you can help bring them back.Thank you
Courtney - [elisagirl2000@go.com]
Monday, November 27, 2000 09:31:09 PM
IP: adsl-dynamic32-243.detroit.mi.ameritech.net

Hello, all!

Am finally home, worn out but here. Played hooky from work last night because I just couldn't face going there when I was so tired and dragged out.

Had a great time in all, though very busy. Stayed with Crzy and she made me watch Princess Mononoke with the idea that this would convince me to change my mind about anime ... well, it was a good try anyway! Loscon was neat, though it was daunting to be on panels with such august names as Orson Scott Card and Barbara Hambly. Was fun hanging out with Crzy, Patrick, Jordan, and Greg.

Becca was a very good kid throughout, and the Demona-Puck-Bronx entry won the Novice category of the costume contest! Huzzah! Hot glue conquers all!

Anyway, now things can get back to normal, by which I mean I have to dive right in to working on AvMists and Sabledrake (still time to send in submissions for either if you're quick; e-mail 'em to me at christine@sabledrake.com by Thursday!) and start my holiday baking and decorate the house and shop and wrap and somewhere in there, start getting Archmage ready for the printers.

Oh, and speaking of which in a roundabout sort of way ... there was a letter waiting for me when I got home yesterday evening, from Sterling House, informing me that they've declared Curse of the Shadow Beasts out of print, and that if I wanted the remaining thousand-something copies, I had to contact them by the 25th or they'd be destroyed (the copies, not Sterling House, don't tempt me). Anyway, reading this on the evening of the 26th, I was somewhat distressed! So I called first thing this morning, and they hadn't sent them to the pulper or incinerator yet, which means I can have the rest of them if I pay the shipping.

So that means, friends and neighbors, that from now on I will be the only source for this limited edition of my own very first book. Whee. Which will be fun someday if ever I'm famous and they're collectable. Shya right, as they say ... but a girl can dream.

But in happier news, also waiting for me when I got home was a pic from our fandom's own Vig, who's doing the cover art for Archmage. Solarrin in all his over-the-top powerful glory ... it's wonderful! And, whoa, I only sent him a description a few weeks ago!

Anyhoo, that's all for now; must go get a nap since I can't blow off work two nights in a row with anything approaching a clear conscience (as if evil ol' me would even know what such a thing was!). Good to be back!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Monday, November 27, 2000 08:33:38 PM
IP: 15-132.009.popsite.net

If I disappear for an inordinate amount of time while I'm at school, that's most likely because I exceeded the 240meg/day limit they've put on the network here. Which I think is quite low for a cap.

Infinity> <<Those of you familiar with joecartoon need only hear one word; Gerbil>>: That applies to half his site.

Gasper> <<Replacing Mr. Satan's name with Hercule, when that's just wrong>>: Yeah. It only belongs to detectives (with great themes).

Welcome back Katara.

Gunjack> <<Cattle mutilations are up>>: "Now what are you saying, the CIA caused the Managua earthquake?" "Well, I can't prove it, but..."
<>: It's basically standard with windows. If it isn't under programs/accessories/entertainment, you should be able to install it from the windows CD.
<<I've never used fastforward>>: It makes level building much less tedius.
<<The Pitsss of Dessspair>>: Well, the Prince and the Count always insist on everyone being healthy before they're broken.
<>: A necessary evil. And at that point there isn't too much to calculate, anyway.
<<And this was an... Education?>>: Well, I'm not sure how much after Newton, it's been so long. But the point is, it's still a couple hundred years ago, as opposed to the fifteen in linguistics.
<<So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me>>: You've made your decision then?
<<All the evil meglomaniacs seem to die when they hit Russia>>: Yup, there must be something to that security by size thing they have going on. And Siberia doesn't hurt either.

Warpmind> <>: Sounds like it could be interesting, but only if it's already been typed up, and you only have to cut and paste or attach.

Daphne> Best of luck with the GPA. And I try not to share my text files over the network here.

And I give you now two versions of perhaps the best thing to come out of the Ukraine (kielbasa is Polish). You can now find Ukranian Bell Carol/Carol of the Bells as performed by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and the East Pacific Symphony. I figure one choral version and one instrumental is good enough.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Monday, November 27, 2000 08:23:04 PM
IP: gside.resnet.rutgers.edu

*Lynati Enters*

Heyla, everyone!

lain: Apparently, the version of the story I saved in hotmail was corrupted, too. I found this out when I moved it to a QuarkXpress file; I ran it through spellchecker an fixed it.
all the wierd "O"'s are supposed to be apastrophe's; but all the wierd "E" symbols aren't question marks; they represent "..." . I hope that helps; if you don't want to deal with fixing that version, You can e-mail me your addrerss and I'll snailmail you a paper version.

Incidently, did you know that the closest word that certain spellcheckers can come to for "Xanatos" is "Manatees" ?

*Lynati Exits*
Lynati
back in Kansas City!
Monday, November 27, 2000 08:04:33 PM
IP: 208.12.249.253

Gasper.. you're not an @$$... or else I am too. I have issues with that kind of thing.. evnetually I'd like to partly support myself through my own creations, but they'll be web work, so what's the point of griping.. I'll be setting up to get paid for my effort... the rest is expendable.

::shrugs::

anyway.. just saying hi to everyone.. life is hecktic as finals approach and things need to get done.

see ya'll

An Aingeal lost in life
Aingeal - [aingealkelly]
Monday, November 27, 2000 07:24:46 PM
IP: 207.42.162.18

I'm realy sorry about the multiple post! the machine told me it couldn't connect, so I kept hitting "subit" again... I guess it did connect!
and thanx for the support. I'm going to talk to her tomorrow... maybe in private she'll actually listen.

we shall see.

Happiness!
Daphne
Monday, November 27, 2000 06:41:08 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.217.163.philadelphia1.level3.net

********RANTINGS*****************
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20001127/re/net_music_dc_1.html

This just strikes me as funny. First, I have no qualm with Mr. McCartney. But Elton, grow up. Mr. John alone last year spent $495,000 or pounds on flowers for his partner alone. That is more money then most families in the world see in a year. Now, you say that they've taken money away from you Mr. John? Where is all that money that you squandered last year...that $500 Million? We didn't take it...those people you bought goods and services from did. It's always so funny when artists come up saying that the fans are hurting them, and then are turning around after their exorberant spending and file bankruptcy. I wouldn't worry about your fans and those "Evil evil evil people", I'd worry more about where your next meal is coming from.

Sorry, but this just pisses me off that we who listen to MP3's are the enemy to all that is good. 5 cents to make a Cd, 50 cents to the artist, and where does the rest go? "Advertising." These artists need to start making smarter choices, and stop trying to blame their fans for all their hardships.

I know I don't support myself through my own creations, probably won't, so I probably sound like an @$$, but come on, this is just nonsense the Record Industry is pulling. They only are after Napster because they (the industry) didn't think of it first.

I'll be quiet now. Don't mean to start anything.
*******END RANTING*******************
Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Monday, November 27, 2000 06:41:03 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

*enters*

Hey people. My Turkey Day was some what ok. Minus the part where I had to deal with my sister and her BF. ("God Beth, why do you have to be interested in something strange and stupid like Japan?") >.< ("Why do you want to write fanfiction about somebody _else's_ work? Why can't you write your own stuff and publish it?") >>.<< They are _so_ stupid!!!!!!!

Also, my sister did another thing that I think is really stupid. She got her tongue pierced. My whole family and agree that we don't like what she did _especially_ when we told her not to! grrr... Of course, it's her body. But I don't want to have to point out to people that I'm related to a punk ballerina. >:p

I can just picture it:

"What does your sister look like, Beth?"

"A ballerina with bright red hair, a fairy tattoo, and more piercings than I can count." O.o
Mary Flanders
Monday, November 27, 2000 06:23:15 PM
IP: adsl-63-195-144-108.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net

Ah back from the short break happily awaiting the next one. I had several interesting things happen last week. For starters I find it very ironic that when I work very hard on a project getting along with others that the color printer should decide that is an appropriate to die. I'll never knock Kinko's again that's for sure.
The other thing I also found quite funny is that for several months I had been searching for a book call "End Run" which was the only instalment of the Wing Commander series I was missing because it was out of print. I couldn't get it at the store I couldn't order it and it was starting to become frustrating. So while I'm watching TV I saw and ad for the used bookstore downtown that use to be an opra house. I went the next day and laughed myself silly when I found it on the shelf. Irony, got to love it.

Warpmind- Actually event if one of our Canidates had won by a landslide Clinton is still in charge until January. They would just be the President-elect. No invasion this time my friend.
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, tx
Monday, November 27, 2000 05:35:40 PM
IP: spider-wg051.proxy.aol.com

Violent Conservative RP WARNING!!!
**George Mason Univeristy, SJ may know where
The Capitalist Jedi Council convenes at a ring to see the evil, venomous, and rabid James Carville foaming at the mouth (as usual). Jesse Ventura arrives and stomps on Carville's feet to keep in place. Jesse then proceeds to repeatedly pummel Carville with his fists, until James has two black eyes, a broken nose, no teeth, and looks even uglier than normal (no easy task). Ventura then proceeds to throw Carville into the ring and bodyslam him. Ventura proceeds thsi violent attack on Carville until James Carville is near dead and has passed out. To conclude, Jesse rips off Carville's head and Ken Starr ventures in to relieve himself into Carville's neck. After Starr leaves, Jesse decides to paly basketball with the head until he grows tired of it, then he just throws the head into the audience.

After the Capitalist Jedi stare with surprise at the scene of excessive violence, he says, "We shocked the World" and everyone applauds him and laughs.**
END Violent RP!!

Well, I hope the violence didn't cross any lines, but James Carville had it coming, especially after that morlock suggested killing Ralph Nader. I only wish Jesse Ventura would do that to Jimmy the Ugly.

Taleweaver> <<Further that, the majority of the Justices are from the Reagan era.>>

Only four Justices were appointed by Ronald Reagan: Chief Justice William Rehnquist, originally a Nixon SC appointee, Sandra Day O'Connor, Anthony Kennedy, and Antonin Scalia.

Clarence Thomas and David Souter were appointed by the elder Bush

Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer were appointed by Clinton

John Paul Stevens was appointed by Gerald Ford.

So a plurality was appointed by Reagan. Further along with Ginsburg and Breyer, Stevens and Souter are also fairly liberal, though Souter is a big improvement compared to Constitution shredder William Brennan, and Stevens is ten tiems as conservative as William Douglas, a man who belonged in an insane asylum, not one of the most powerful posts in the land.

While Scalia, Thomas, and Rehnquist take the conservative bloc, Kennedy and O'Connor will be the wild cards and decide many court cases.

Hopefully, the Supreme Court will take a unanimous position on thsi case, though I am still shocked they would even hear this case. It is a politcial question and not really aprt of their jurisdiction, and even Brenan might agree with that :)

Personally, I am dissapointed in William Daley. Even with the recounts, Bush holds a narrow lead. I figured one of the Daley family could get enough votes from the cemeteries to give Gore the edge :)

::waves to Xena Trek::

Daphne> That stinks. You should talk to the teacher, at least. As for scholarships, the guidance Counselor shoudl ahve a book full of all types of weird scholarships. Also, your Church may have some, especially to any Methdoist College. I went to Christian Brothers University for two years and got an automatic $2,000 per year off just for going to a High School run by that Order.

Calliope> It seems your argument is based on a technicality,a nd speaking of Cuba, some pundit told peopel complaining about confusing ballots in Southern Flordia, that if they want things simple, they can move 70 miles south. I love that quote :)

Azrael> Well, my state lost a war that the nation won.

Gasper> Bush won't cause too much damage to the economy. He is a big Government liberal, but so is Gore. If Schwartzkopf calls for a military coup, though, I'll join him :) I hope I get to napalm UC Santa Cruz, then :)

Starsinger> That revocation is a day late and a dollar short.

Lain> I imagine that you see accidents because you pay attention to them, plus there may be a lot of lousy drivers near your dorm. In one part of Memphis, almost every driver is form Mississippi and there is an accident almost daily.

Sorry about the fish, though they are not known for longevity.

Lady Corax> I just don't want to go by for Christmas.

DPH> Well, your preacher has exaggerated, though it seems a lot of ministers do this, and I say ministers, because I have never heard a priest endorse a candidate, because the National Council of Churches and the ACLU would use that to try and revoke the tax exempt status of every Catholic Church in the United States and they'd urge the Senate to declare war on the Vatican (which I could see Hillary Clinton considering). If it makes you feel any better, a number of Urban Churches operated by multimillionaire preachers will get their congregation in order to promote the Democratic candidates running for Office. Emmanuel Baptist Church in Da Bronx is under investigation by the IRS, because Hillary Clinton was campaigning at the Church and the pastor endrosed her while comparing Lazio to Satan by saying the line, "Get behind thee, Lazio." In New Jersey a number of Urban Churches who endorse Corzine are also in trouble, so don't worry, your not alone, and I imagine more rural and suburban churches have endorsed Republican candidates.

As for evil and good, I'd peg Bush and Gore as Lawful Neutral, myself.

As for LSU losing, good. I have no attachment to them, and it was Huey Long who made the school big and sparked a rivalry between LSU and Tulane University (a private College in New Orleans which has 10% the student body of LSU) back in the 1930s, because he was snubbed for being a socialist when he attended Tulane back in the early 1900s.

Gunjack> <<An interesting idea, but you're assuming that God's prohibition of witchcraft only applied to one form, as opposed to being a general rule... >>
Well, we really don't know. Translation is another issue. The word in Commandment 5 is not actaully kill but a loose translation of a Hebrew word meaning murder or something close to it. I also rely on tradition as well as the Bible for my beliefs, especially since the Bible can get confusing in soem parts, like the two Creation stories.

The book's title is Hitler's Pope. The Pope may hav edoen more, but in his silence, he arranged for thosuands of Jews to escape from Poland and through Turkey to what was then Palestine, and now Israel. I mention Turkey, because Pius XII's succesor was the Nuncio to Turkey at the time, and mentioned how he loved helping the refugees, and that he would have done the same thing regardless of the Pope's orders.

Now, I'm off. Eight days of class left :)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
New Orleans, Louisiana
Monday, November 27, 2000 05:00:54 PM
IP: 141.164.133.110

howdy all,

Elections> Someone asked when it all becomes official and binding. Somewhere around the first week of December, the electoral college votes. They are the guys and gals that count. This confirms what the election already decided, in other elections. Pending a ruling by the Supreme Court, that election should take place per usual. But the next prez isn't in office until he takes the oath. That's still in Janurary.

As for the contested rulings, I'm not worried. At this point the Democrats are just as eager to wrap this up as the Demoncrats. Gore may be in never-say-die mood, but the new Congresspeople and such will need to work with the Republicans. They can't do that if there is a lot of bad blood. Further that, the majority of the Justices are from the Reagan era. Unless, Gore's people can show proof positive that he can make up the 500 some odd votes, they'll likely toss it out, maybe with prejudice to end this once and for all.

Daphne> Do you have previous drafts of you work? If you can show it to your teacher that you not only have the results but the work leading to it, she might reconsider.

General question to ask> Can anyone point me in the direction of a really good story. I'm looking for something to read or watch that really fires up my imagination. If I see one more bad more I am going down to eviscerating movie executives. What was the last movie or show that you felt better for experiencing it?

Azreal> Actually you might want to include Italy in that list. I don't think Italy has been part of losing of a war since the Visigoths sacked Rome. Granted many times Italy has just switched side to the stronger opponent, but I don't see that as any more or less noble than not declaring an action a war.

Airplanes all zoom in America
Skyscrapers loom in America
Industrial boom in America
Twelve in a room in America
- West Side Story
Taleweaver - [taleweaver@usa.net]
Monday, November 27, 2000 03:24:54 PM
IP: wwweic.engineering.csupomona.edu

Gunjack Valentine>> <Then when, precisely, *should* it end?> well, it *should* have ended three weeks ago. I wish it did. Unfortuantely, it probably won't end for a few days now... the supreme court meets on friday about it, right? [shrugs] although I could be wrong about that. Anyway, "should" is starting to become a meaningless term in this election, at least IMHO.

[WARNING!! SCHOOL RANT!!]
In my computer class, we had an assignment. I did it. I did it well -- not perfectly, mind you, but well. well enough, in fact, that some of my classmates used the network to "borrow" my assignment. And since the teacher has no proof of who did the assignment first (of course, she can't check the computers for the "last modified" date and time, right? Because that would make sense), she decided to fail everyone whose paper matched. So, just because my classmates decided to be lazy, my GPA (and with it, my rank) is in danger.

Needless to say, I'm just a *tad* upset by this.
[END SCHOOL RANT]

Happiness!

Daphne, apprentice-wordsmith
Monday, November 27, 2000 03:03:18 PM
IP: 207.224.2.81

Gunjack Valentine>> <Then when, precisely, *should* it end?> well, it *should* have ended three weeks ago. I wish it did. Unfortuantely, it probably won't end for a few days now... the supreme court meets on friday about it, right? [shrugs] although I could be wrong about that. Anyway, "should" is starting to become a meaningless term in this election, at least IMHO.

[WARNING!! SCHOOL RANT!!]
In my computer class, we had an assignment. I did it. I did it well -- not perfectly, mind you, but well. well enough, in fact, that some of my classm,ates used the network to "borrow" my assignment. And since the teacher has no proof of who did the assignment first (of course, she can't check the computers for the "last modified" date and time, right? Because that would make sense), she decided to fail everyone whose paper matched. So, just because my classmates decided to be lazy, my GPA (and with it, my rank) is in danger.

Needless to say, I'm just a *tad* upset by this.
[END SCHOOL RANT]

Happiness!

Daphne, apprentice-wordsmith
Monday, November 27, 2000 02:50:23 PM
IP: 207.224.2.81

"Unbreakable" Review: Saw it on Friday w/ a couple of friends. Its good in terms of acting, direction and writing. But it isn't a *great* movie either. If you are expecting "The Sixth Sense" revival... then you are in for a disappointment. Its has drama, suspense and a twist. It can be worth your while in the theatres or you can wait till it comes to video. I mainly wanted to see this movie for the soul purpose of spotting an actor friend of mine in Phillidephia, in which I could not find in the multiple sense involving the stadium. (They probably cut that part out or something). The director, M. Night Shyamalan did make an appearance in the movie.... if you do see it, he will be the man in a bright blue jacket that Willis intergrates and searches for drugs on him.

"The Grinch" Review: Go see it! Its really cute and extremely hillarious.

Later.
XenaTrek - [ellislis@yahoo.com]
Orlando, FL, USA
Monday, November 27, 2000 01:01:49 PM
IP: proxy2a.lmco.com

***Kyryn steps in.***

Lain> I'm sorry to hear your fishie died. I lost one of mine a few weeks ago. :( BTW, the Canadians did not burn Washington, D.C. in the War of 1812. Washington was burned by a British force freshly shipped from fighting Napoleon. The War of 1812 is generally considered a draw by the standards of war since no territory was officially taken or lost at the end of the war and everything returned to the boundaries that were in place when the fighting started.

Calliope> "Americans"> People of the United States of America refer to themselves as "Americans" primarily because it would be just plain silly to call themselves "United Statesians" ;) , and because it is a part of our country's name. Collectively I have a tendency to refer to anyone on the North American continent as a "North American," anyone from South America as a "South American," anyone from Europe as a "European," etc. This is a continental designation.

Sevarius Jr.> Hey, someone doing the backgrounds work on "X-Men Evolution" is a WWF fan. There is a scene in the cafeteria where there are signs on the wall behind the characters with the slogans "Judgement Day" and "It's true. It's true."

Later All!

***Kyryn takes off.***
Kyryn
Denton, TX
Monday, November 27, 2000 12:21:52 PM
IP: exofw.aicpa.org

heh I just got this, I though you politicaly inclined types migh enjoy it :P

Doctor Seuss Goes To Florida

Can we count them with our nose?
Can we count them with our toes?

Should we count them with a band?
Should we count them all by hand?
If I do not like the count,
I will simply throw them out!

I will not let this vote count stand
I do not like them, AL GORE I am!

Can we change these numbers here?
Can we change them, calm my fears?

What do you mean, Dubya has won?
This is not fair, this is not fun
Let's count them upside down this time
Let's count until the state is mine!

I will not let this VOTE count stand!
I do not like it, AL GORE I am!

I'm really ticked, I'm in a snit!
You have not heard the last of it!
I'll count the ballots one by one
And hold each one up to the sun!
I'll count, recount, and count some more!
You'll grow to hate this little chore

But I will not, cannot let this vote count stand!
I do not like it, AL GORE I am!

I won't leave office, I'm stayin' here!
I've glued my desk chair to my rear!
Tipper, Hillary, and Bubba too,
All telling me that I should sue!

We find the Electoral College vile!
RECOUNT the votes until I smile!

We do not want this vote to stand!
We do not like it, AL GORE I am!

How shall we count this ballot box?
Let's count it standing in our socks!
Shall we count this one in a tree?
And who shall count it, you or me?
We cannot, cannot count enough!
We must not stop, we must be tough!

I do not want this vote to stand!
I do not like it, AL GORE I am!

What's that? What? What are you trying to
say?
You think the current count should stay?
You do not like my counting scheme?
It makes you tense, gives you bad dreams?
Foolish people, you're wrong you'll see!

Your only care should be for me!

I Will not let this vote count stand!
I do not like it, and AL GORE I am!
Anonymous
Monday, November 27, 2000 09:21:52 AM
IP: 136.145.83.183

Hey guys!!! * ^_~ *

Gside> <<at least that seems to have made up for it.>> Yes, it definitly did! He even keept touring us when his time was up :)

Winterwolf> <<Phooey! A netless computer! >> I Know!!! Sheesh...<<roswell>> Yes, very very interesting....and tonight well get a new one!!! hehehe....aw dang! Drawing homework!...Its ok, dont panick, I can do both...i'm ok....ok... :P<<You tease you! Though if your mom looks that good... >> lol no, my moms no super model but then again, nither am I ;P

"Americans are arrogant pricks"> I think Americans ARE arrogant pricks, concidering the only ones you concidere "Americans" are yourselves when Canadians are just as American, so are the mexicans, the the colombians and YES Ooooo the Cubans too! That scares you guys, doesnt it...*sighs and shakes her head* Oy...

Sevarious Jr> ppl from Spain do speak as fast as Latin Americans + they have the nifty accent where they slur some sounds and change others wich is quite diferent from all the latin american accents.

Gunjack> <<*Valentine begins hooking various wires and electrodes to Cali* Um, if you don't mind, the energy bills are getting pretty high, and you seem to have plenty to spare *hands her a LARGE mug of coffee* ; ) >> LOL Oh posh! I dont need no stinkin' coffy, man!!!! Hand me a box of powdered jello and watch me go! ;P

Robby> <<*really* funky Japanese commercials>>LOL those are so much fun to watch! The Kodomo no omacha series comes compleat with jap comercial, I am amazed at all the junk they sell for kids! :P

X Men Evolution> I am SO very much enjoying this series! Its so much fun! Kindda like an X men/Generation X mix up :P And I have to say, I am madly in love with Nightcrawler! Hes so cute with his lil german accent and fuzzy point blue ears! :P

As for Buffy and Angel, both eps were cool, not the best, but cool. Most everything as been comented on so I'll save myself the typing. I did LOL at the butt kissing demon tho...and I'd apreciated if everyone now refer to me from now on as "The Shiny Special One" or "Your Creamy Coolness" :P

Well! I should get going! I'll see you guys!!! *HUGZ all and skampers off*
Caliope
Monday, November 27, 2000 08:42:46 AM
IP: proxy.atl.netsetter.com

Warpmind> unfortunately we are still stuck with clinton as our president. The new president will not take over until January. I think the actual deadline date is in December though.... *too early to think*
Like some others have said - enough is enough. It's time for Gore to act like a gentleman and concede. I have my doubts that he will, but one can always hope for this.
Jannie
Monday, November 27, 2000 06:53:09 AM
IP: 209-83-228-129.hou.port.mytelco.com

*Warpmind enters, glancing about.*
Yo, gang.

Mara: Well, that's sort of a relief... but you two, just don't reveal what kind of monster I am, eh? ];)

By the way, I just saw something on the news about a two-year-old in England, who's got such a strong magnetic field surrounding him, he keeps setting off alarms in any store he's in... can you guys say "Magneto"? ÕÕ

Doug: Frankly, I doubt he'll go to prison... but, that is partly because I doubt he'll get to stay in Norway. Refugee. Things seem to be cooling down in Kosovo these days... y'know what I mean?

Gside: I just haven't had a proper chance to see that movie yet. I will, though, as soon as I get my hands on a VCR. Or a moviebox. By the way, if you're interested, I could e-mail you the rough cast list, as it stands at this point, and a brief summary of the main plot. (I decided to go for continuity...)

Lady Corax: You want to be named Empress of America? *Ponders* Well, there *is* case precedent, so... ];)

By the way, is it correct that USA was without a president for several days on end now? If so, this has been a truly golden opportunity - in case of invasion, USA has been stripped of its supreme military commander! Why, oh why didn't the Nereus Project engage?

Gunjack Valentine: I'm not female, you *swats Gunjack Valentine soundly.* Irish Coffee - not just whiskey and coffee! There's whipped cream and brown sugar too (at least in the recipe I'm following!) As for gun control, I agree - I'd MUCH rather carry a Colt 1911A1 in a shoulder holster, than have to rely on cops who are legally forced to keep their guns locked away in their car when they're out on patrol... :|

Well, that's it for now. Ciao, crew.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@usa.net]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, November 27, 2000 01:36:31 AM
IP: spock.ti.telenor.net

Azrael: We did lose Vietnam, but Congress never declared it a war, so it doesn't count. U.S.A.! U.S.A.!
Matt "King Snarf" Maybray - [reginald_q_bumbershoot@hotmail.com]
Drexel Hill, PA, USA
Monday, November 27, 2000 12:45:34 AM
IP: a030-0127.phl2.splitrock.net

*Valentine enters, looking cheerful*

I spent eight hours yesterday relocating a library, but I got some good books out of the deal... And since I actually went to bed before midnight last night, I got enough sleep to quash the cold that's been bugging me. My brother's back at harding by now, my buddy is back at home playing Tenchu 2 (I HATE him...), and I'm left alone with the computer and some good liturature... 8 )
Now, if only I could put my book down long enough to do some modelling...

Lynati><<It was a joke, because of what you said about it and Demon Knight. (I dunno, it seemed funny at the time...)>> You mean there aren't satanic messages in my music? And I've been looking for good examples of subliminal messages, too... : P <<...and you haven't even met me yet, you slut!>> ...Whoa, Warps is *female*? ; ) <<The bit occurs in the third arc of the newer series, and there are over thirty stories in the earlier arcs that you would have to read (and I have to get written out) first.>> Gah, does THIS sound familiar... : P

Spacebabie><<And to prove my point::Places a pokeball on the floor marked Naughty Hentai tentacles:: Lets see who picks it up first.>> You honestly thought that's prove anything? In a room like this? ; )

Warpmind><<As for Tullamore Dew, it's a fine brand of Irish Whiskey - I myself use it solely to mix Irish Coffee. :)>> Whisky and coffee... If I drank, that'd be my personal choice... 8 ) <<Oh, and as for carrying weapons - in Norway, we have this little problem with the law - it's so strict, the only people who carry guns are outlaws.>> Weenies... <<And that actually includes cops! :(>> STUPID weenies. How do they deal with heavily-armed, barricaded crackheads? Personally, I'll stick with Texas; the armed-to-the-teeth traditions go WAY back! 8 D
<<No, I haven't watched Sneakers, actually... :|>> You *really* should... "Cattle mutilations are up!"

DPH><<The SBC has a current boycott against Disney.>> Believe it or not, it took me about five minutes to figure out why that's be a problem in the Gargoyles CR... And still, I repeat the question: What's the big deal? I'm rather hostile to the Mouse myself. *Shrugs* ...I seriously doubt anyone in here's sharpening a stiletto for you... <> Even paranoids have enemies... ; )

Lain><<but I DID write a song (yahoo!! my first!!)>> Congrats! Instrumental only, or does it have lyrics? <<...and wasn't set up by the people we nicknamed "the old widows Twanky..">> Ok, now you *have* to explain that nickname some time... o_O

SJ><<Near as I can tell, in the past 100 years, no one has kicked America's ass in warfare except for one group of people...>> *refers to his US history lessons* The British (since Canada was British at the time, our greviences were with Britian, and the soldiers who fought against us were British regulars) kicked our butts during the opening rounds of the War of 1812. After we weeded out the incompitent generals, however, Andrew Jackson evened up the scales outside New Orleans, and the British realized that they were in no position to bargian hard. The status quo was restored 1815, and neither side did lasting harm to the other.

Gside><<What you do is open both your mp3 player and sound recorder at teh same time.>> ...Which stops me cold, since I don't have a sound recorder. ; P ...Thanks for the info, though... <<Half the time I play with sound off (fast forward sound tends to get annoying).>> And miss all that great FF2 music!? That's one of the best game soundtracks ever! ...Besides, I've never used fastforward...
<<Mawwage. Mawwage is what bwings us hewe todah.>> The Pitsss of Dessspair! Don't even Thin*coughcoughhack* ...Don't even think of trying to escape.
<<When you ask questions in class, no one knows their answers.>> But at what price? I hate most forms of math... <> ...And this was an... Education?
<<...never get involved in a land war in asia.>> ...So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me! <<Amazing stuff, when he crosses one river, the bar representing his troops goes to half its width.>> Ouch. All the evil meglomaniacs seem to die when they hit Russia... Which explains why the only lasting meglomaniacs START there.
I've heard that one of the problems Napolean ran into was that the tin buttons on his men's coats turned to powder in the cold... Anyone heard of this? <<Sometimes you could look out with directory names.>> Oddly enough, I've never tried that. : P

Robby><<I'm currently going through the process of watching over 2 dozen tapes, all six hours long, full of raw japanese television.>> You lucky, lucky fragger... : P

Aaron><<Well, despite the confusion, can I count on your support in getting the Callous Pragmatist Party off the ground?>> What's your stance on vigilanteism? ; ) *begins humming "I've got a little list*

Doug><<Hope you're less annoyed by his absence the next time it happens...>> Same here. He's actually turning into a pretty good brother, and I'd hate to lose him just when the good times started to roll... <<Thus I like them better as characters in those books.>> Ah, that explains a lot... : ) <> The more graphically-adept the software gets, the more work you have to do when you make a game... : P It's pretty much impossible for a single person to produce a cutting-edge game, because of the amount of work required...

SOROW><<YEA! Sex for everyone! Responsibly of course.>> *Raises an eyebrow dryly* ...Now *there's* a rallying cry for you...

Archwolf><<Seems that the coach has been ordering equipment we never see.....>> Fry the bugger. <<They _STILL_ try to make me rack out at midnight.>> Smae here. My parents have been trying to alter my sleeping habits for as long as I can remember... : P

Azreal><<...but now there's nothing really interesting to argue abou... I mean... discuss.>> This has me a bit worried. I started posting about a year ago, and the regulars seem to be steadily decreasing... o_O A year ago, we'd have had this many posts two hours after a wipe, not two days.

Lain (again)><> What's poutine? <<Nice and non-violent>> Translation: weenie... : P ...My prefered sports are Softair and Paintball, but soccer comes close if you include the "no blood/no foul" rule...
<<And my fishie just died (he was only 13 cents, but I had him for a year..).>> I'm sorry to hear that. I remember when our hermit crab died... ; P

Firestorm - I checked the site recently; it seems they've fixed the count, and Bush's total is *indeed* a higher number than Gore's.

Daphne><<don't worry... the courts aren't done yet and gore isn't conceeding this time. this isn't over, folks.>> Then when, precisely, *should* it end?

Lemme see if I've got it straight. We had the vote: Bush won. We've had an automatic recount: Bush won. We've had a second recount(?), along with the military ballots: Bush won. I've heard no substantive reasons for continuing the challange, no evidence of wrongdoing.
And yet the farce continues. Please, Gore supporters, could any of you explain to me EXACTLY WHAT IT TAKES to win a democratic election!!? We've gone through the ballots three times, and the result has remained consistent; so instead of declaring a victor, we're going to the Supreme Court. Do you supporters of the legal actions believe, based on supportable evidence, that this election was tampered with? If you do, could you please share it with me?
While this election has firmed up my belief that the ideals of democracy are valid, it has also shown that the democratic spirit (and I mean the system, not the party) is on it's death bed. This country has become so partisan that the two sides have demonized each other. In the past few months, I've seen several examples of the "Anionted" mentality: "Since we're right and they're wrong, we need to use any means nescessary to win!". If Gore wins the court cases and the election, I personally believe that he will ruin my country. Be that as it may, I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and a chance to vindicate his views through actually improving things. But it seems that this is unacceptable; I've heard it suggested that the best method would be to backstab Bush at every avenue during his time in office (thereby crippling his ability to actually GOVERN), and then trounce him in the next election. The obvious assumption is that anything Bush (or, it seems, ANY Republican) wishes to do should be blocked at all costs, since they obviously cannot help but damage the country. Shouldn't we at least give them a chance to vindicate their views before we condemn them? Or is an open mind too much to ask?

I want to be in America
Ok for me in America
Everything's free in America
For a small fee in A-mer-i-CA!
-West Side Story
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Monday, November 27, 2000 12:41:55 AM
IP: 209-223-253-32.ausa.net

SJ- Go watch Unbreakable. It is not, repeate NOT another Sixth Sense. It is much better IMO, but beyond that, I think it would appeal to anyone who likes Comics and Cartoons <ie Gargoyles>. Even if you watch the matinee or have someone else pay, it is definately worth your time.

If you still want the Spoiler, though, email me and I'll send it to you.

Lain- The only nation in the world never to be "officially" defeated in a War is America. That is not to say we have not lost battles, and face it, we just declared ourselves the winners of Viet Nam and then came home, but "officially" America has never lost a war. That's why we salute with our palms parrallel to the ground and most other nations salute with the backs of their hands to their heads. I will even go so far as to admit that we probably lost in fact a time or two <definately Viet Nam> but other nations accept our claim of never having been defeated in a War. We have better spin doctors than anyone else.
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Monday, November 27, 2000 12:32:48 AM
IP: 198.215.20.209

*The door to the CR crashes open. The lights dim and a spotlight shines on the doorway. Suddenly a flash of tawny colored fur goes somersaulting across the room. With a final twist and flip, Katara lands on the other side of the room. As she waves and bows before her stunned audience, Canyon slowly pads into the room, shaking his feline head and softly rummbling something about silly mutates*

Greetings All! Guess who's finally back? How's everyone been. *starts dashing about the room hugging everyone* I've missed you all SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much! Things here are semi-sorta starting to get back on track. The good news is that my back isn't bothering me anymore, although the chiropractor still wants to do a few more office visits to keep on top of things. (IE to get more money from the insurance company and me)

How was everyone's Turkey Day? (those that celebrated it that is) Mine was so-so. A very late dinner and of course not enough white meat to go around, but at least there was a decent sized HoneyBaked Ham to go with the bird.

It's much much to long since I've stopped by and there's just been waaaaaaaaaaaay to much going in the news and everyone's lives for me to make any statements about. So I'm just going to start fresh from this point and make mew comments tomorrow night. For everyone that's been having a rough time, I'll say extra prayers for you. For those having good fortunes, congratulations. Belated Happy Birthday wishes to everyone that I've missed for the past month. Greetings and warm welcomes to all the new residents. No need for me to point out the sanity jar by the door. I'm sure that you've already made your deposits there. :-)

Well, time for me to dash off. *runs around and hugs everyone again* Is great to see everyone again.
Katara - [garglover66f@hotmail.com]
San Diego Chargers FINALLY win one!, CA
Monday, November 27, 2000 12:31:28 AM
IP: aca827d6.ipt.aol.com

And now allow me to express my views on the election of 2000.

BWAH HA HA HA HA!!! HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! I'll repeate what I said 3 and a half weeks ago--BUSH WON THE DAMN ELECTION. GET OVER IT.

At this point, it would be nice to say "It's all over but the crying". In this case, however, it's more like "It's all over but the bitching and moaning and the endless appeals." Yes, it's true, it's true. It looks now as if the election of 2000 was between 4 guys, some elephants named Bush and Dick, and some jackasses named Sore & Loserman.

3 and a half weeks, and this is STILL not over. Because, after a count, and a recount, and ANOTHER recount, as hard as he tried, Al Gore couldn't manufacture enough votes to win the election, so now he's gonna contest it. Wow, that was a surprise. Everyone keeps talking about legitimacy. Way I see it, Gore ain't exactly being legitimate right now. He lost. He's making an ass out of himself by dragging this on as long as he is.

God I wish this was over. It SHOULD be. This is insane. We got a winner, and they still won't let this thing die.

UNBREAKABLE: Will someone go ahead and email me the spoiler for this movie? Because I can tell you this, I have NO interest in seeing this movie. It's like Sixth Sense all over again. While I thought Sixth Sense was an alright movie, it was in no way as good as it was hyped up to be (Academy Award nomination my ass).

And in case somebody was keeping score (like me), Roberty Downey Jr. was arrested for drugs again. Just 3 months out of jail too. Which is pretty impressive, too, I expected him to last as long as 6 months.
Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Monday, November 27, 2000 12:14:54 AM
IP: cache-2.spg.va.webcache.rcn.net

Wow, now that's just too damned funny. Hey Anonymus, you're about 2 weeks late I think...but I give ya a golf clap for the effort.
*Claps softly.*
Gasper
MN, US
Sunday, November 26, 2000 09:17:17 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

********BEGIN RP*************
While interstellar travel was easy enough for anyone with a starship, Gasper hated how long it took to fly out to the Plutonian Ship Yards orbiting Charon. Docking at Delta 17 Bay, he left the ship's security feature on, and went to the pub, finding his usual booth, and ordering his usual of Saiya-jin Whisky, he threw back two shots before his contact arrived. Jaran Colbert moved to the booth and sat opposite the Dragoon.
"Good to see ya again. Mind if I take a shot too?"
"Go ahead." Gasper replied, sliding the bottle to the black man. Pouring a shot glass full, he slammed it back, savoring the burn of the liqiour.
"I don't know how you get this crap. Everyone knows Corellian is the better brand."
"Not as strong."
"Suit yourself."
Gasper took one more shot, then sat back. "So what am I shipping?"
"Various metals. There's been a call for the people in the Belt to obtain some Gundanium-"
"Bull S#!t. You know how traceable that is?"
"Well, if you really want a fair trade, the Consortium upon arrival is ready to pay you trade. Bring them the remaining metal, and you are guarenteed a full upgrade of your ship." Colbert said, laying out a contract and offer. Gasper took the papers and read them carefully, looking for as much small print as he could. Looking up, he smiled.
"This contract is well over 5o million in US Currancy. I could use that."
"Legal tender is negoitiable. The Consortium has given me any and all powers and funding necessary. We have half the upgraded equipment in the shipyard right now, so all we need is for you to say yes or no." Putting the papers down, the terran Dragoon shook his head.
"There has GOT to be a catch on this Jaran, no one simply asks gives you 5o Mil plus upgrades. You're not telling me something." Taking another shot, Jaran held it to his mouth and mumbled something under the Dragoon's range of full understanding. "What did you say?"
"Running a Krinian Blockade."
"You're kidding, when did Krinas get into it with Orion's Belt?" Colbert was taken back by the comment, then pulled out a data pad.
"You weren't kidding about being in Hell, were you. The Krinian Empire has over half of South Galaxy explored and conquered. The Consortium has kept them at bay, but about three months ago, Krinas sent the 11th fleet to blockade the Belt. The Belt though, contracted out supplies to make 20 gundams. If you can get through, with the cargo, The Consortium will finally have the materials to complete them. With those in effect, they will be able to take out the Blockade, and establish trade relations." Gasper absorbed the information, and realized he hadn't done all the studying he'd meant to do.
"Peace Talks broke down eh?"
"Yeah."
"And they'll upgrade me for the trip, and finish it when I'm done with the mission."
"All they need is a signature."
"I'm crazy ya know."
"You love your ship, and you love fighting for a cause."
"All right." Gasper held out his hand and shook Colbert's.
"You made the right decision."
**********END RP**************

Hoo Doggies, that's a long one, but Exposistion is the most fun. Hey everybody, hope all your Turkey Breaks were good for ya. Mine was just great, and once again, must make mention of the Jack Danials Steak at TGI Fridays. Great stuff, when ever will they market the sauce.

Election 2000: Well, as we all heard, Bush now has Florida, and the Republican Menace has returned. I wonder if there are any good Mass Comm. Schools in Canada. Seriously though, so long as Bush doesn't screw up to much, we should be okay. But then again, we haven't even gotten the full shabang done with, as Gore will appeal. I wish the world would just fall back on the Clinton Plan I made up.... 2 years should give us enough time.

DBZ on International Channel- Tonight, we see the end of Cell games, and from my perspective, looks like Chrono Cross took some of their Techs, like Flying Arrow that Serge uses, from this episode, with Gohan doing a Kamehameha wave, and a faded image of Goku in back doing the same. An ode to Toriyama mayhaps? I CANNOT wait for this episode to come into Toonami...so close....so close....Kudo's to our friend Mr. Piccolo for a tactic that was just an awesome idea. For those who can't watch tonight, you'll see.

DBZ On Toonami- Damn you Funimation. I liked how you kept most things. Even showing some reality in Toriyama's work, but ya know....Replacing Mr. Satan's name with Hercule, when that's just wrong. Kami-sama willing, they won't change Videl's name, which, as I understand, we will be seeing the Great Saiyaman's tapes coming out at the end of January....Please keep Videl's Name! And Buu's name. ALso, if the rumor is true, we might be getting some of the old Voice Actors for the Buu Saga....joy!

******REVIEW--MEN OF HONOR********
Not much of a review. It was a good movie. I've not read the book, but it makes me want to. DeNiro as always, rocked as a Master Chief, and Cuba Gooding Jr. definately deserves another nod as Carl Brashear. My only qualm with the show was the length. I think more could have been done much more, but that's just me. Another nod to Charlize Theron, who is really starting to be an up and comer in Hollywood.
********END REVIEW***************

Well, I think that's about all I really have to say for today, and all the RP for the week. Later all.

Gasper - [gasper@icybrian.com]
MN, US
Sunday, November 26, 2000 09:14:23 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
To the citizens of the United States of America:
In the light of your failure to elect anybody as President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves and, by extension, the free world, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.
Her Sovereign Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories including New Jersey and West Virginia.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, please comply with the following acts:
1. Look up "revocation" in the now official Oxford Dictionary ($75). Start spelling English words correctly.
2. Learn at least the first 4 lines of "God Save The Queen"
3. Start referring to "soccer" as football
4. Declare war on Quebec and France
5. Arrest Mel Gibson for treason
6. Close down the NFL. Learn to play rugby.
7. Enjoy warm flat beer and steak and kidney pudding. Train waitresses to be more aggressive with customers and not to tell you their names before you eat.
8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. This has been replaced with November 5th.
9. All members of this British Crown Dependency will be required to take 6 weeks annual vacation and observe statutory tea breaks
10. Driving on the left is now compulsory - recall all cars to effect the change immediately.
11. Report to our Consulate General in NY,
M. Wragg, for your new passport and job allocation.
12. Have Meg Ryan report to the Prince Andrews bedchamber
13. Add the Royal Insignia to the top of the Washington Monument, and the Queens Christmas speeches to the Lincoln Memorial.
14. Stop referring to the World Series of Baseball. Instead, call it the National Series of USA, Cuba and Japan.
Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisiton of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).
Thank you for your cooperation and have a nice day!

Anonymous
Sunday, November 26, 2000 09:13:01 PM
IP: proxy-1422.public.svc.webtv.net

Yes Unbreakable was a good movie. Bruce Willis can act I tell ya. Oh yeah. Samuel Jackson did good as well. No spoilers though I am holding back the feeling to burst forth with them
James Birdsong
Sunday, November 26, 2000 08:00:57 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-131-148.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

From CNN.com:

Bush has 2,911,872 votes in Flordia
Gore had 2,912,790 votes in Flordia
Bush is ahead by 537 votes.
I think CNN screwed up.

More later.
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Sunday, November 26, 2000 07:54:20 PM
IP: 3cust10.tnt51.det3.da.uu.net

Greg - I don't watch the news, but there's only one event I can think of that would cause that kind of responce... o_O ...Have they finally gotten off their butts and given us a president?

Real post later, I just started a REALLY good book. Anyone with a strong stomach, go find "Gulag Archipelago" immediatly.

Peace, Justice, Dope.

Gunjack Valentine
Sunday, November 26, 2000 07:46:41 PM
IP: 209-223-253-74.ausa.net

don't worry... the courts aren't done yet and gore isn't conceeding this time. this isn't over, folks.

happiness!
Daphne
Sunday, November 26, 2000 07:46:14 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.215.73.philadelphia1.level3.net

Greg....yes....Dammit indeed.
Bigger post later.
Gasper
MN, US
Sunday, November 26, 2000 07:45:13 PM
IP: 209.83.84.4

Sorry about the last comment. I just had to vent.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 26, 2000 07:34:50 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

::Watches the news: DAMNIT!!! DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT,DAMNIT!!!!!!!
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 26, 2000 07:33:35 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

I'm gonna be lazy and not add my title today.

[a moment of silence for lain's fish]

lain>> you were there when the blue jays beat the phillies!?! oooh, that was not a fun night on this side of lake eerie. I was at camp, watching the game on a portable tv my girl scout leader snuck in. fun trip.

happiness!
Daphne
Sunday, November 26, 2000 07:31:11 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.215.73.philadelphia1.level3.net

yeesh, what is it with me lately??..
I just saw ANOTHER car accident, a mangled twisted smoking car in the middle of the intersection. I am beginning to wonder what's up with all of this, I have seen too many accidents in the past few days, not just been by them, but actually seen them happen.. it is kind of disturbing. And now my hands really hurt, which always seems to happen, and I don't know why. grrrr..
And my fishie just died (he was only 13 cents, but I had him for a year..). He was having major swim bladder issues and I was contemplating euthenising the poor beastie :(
But good news..
Remember how music was being a jerk for me? Well, I officially got out of the Composition class and GUESS WHAT??
I composed a song last night. Figures, eh? But at least I wrote.
that's about it for now. I will try to post more later and whine less next time :)
love
lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 26, 2000 07:10:49 PM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

DPH> Actually it was Bob Forward who was in charge of "Beast Wars" who is in charge of the new X-Men show. Skir walked off the show when WB ordered it to be 90210 with Mutant powers. We'll see what happens.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 26, 2000 06:38:06 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

**X MEN EVOLUTION comments**
1, I have not seen the series. But I believe that Bob Skir, the writer of Beast Machines, created the rough outline of this X-men series. If so, you can guess what to expect based on how he did Beast Machines.
**END X MEN EVOLUTION comments**

I admit to being overly paranoid at times.

**ELECTION/RELIGION**
I thought I heard someone say that we should who the next president is before now.

My pastor thinks the presidential election is about pure good and pure evil. Unless I am missing something, neither side is pure good. Green Baron, please feel free to attempt to correct me on this.
**END ELECTION/POLITICS**

**BFTS RP continues**
"Yep, it was a good thing I reserved a couple of cabins when I stopped to get pizza," said DPH.
**END BFTS RP for now**
DPH - [dph_of_rules@yahoo.com]
AR, USA
Sunday, November 26, 2000 05:17:59 PM
IP: max1-11.cwy.cei.net

Hello, hello, everyone! Hope y'all had a wonderful Thanksgiving! :)

Election Stuff> This is getting way too out of hand, just name me Empress of America. ;)

Coyote> Hey, there! I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving also. :)

GB> Sorry about the awkwardness of your Thanksgiving. I totally understand how you can feel out of place, though. If you ever wanna talk, just drop me a line!

Saturday morning cartoons> Man, I'm really getting hooked on X-Men: Evolution. Wonderful series! Nightcrawler's pretty cool...although I'm waiting for some sign of Jubilee...and you know what else I'm getting hooked on? That Jackie Chan cartoon. Man. ;) And of course I'm still watching Pokemon. Finally grabbed my copy of Pokemon: the Movie 2K...I still think it's an awesome movie. :)

Well, that's enough ranting from me for today! Have a wonderful week, everyone, and I'll see y'all around!
Lady Corax
Sunday, November 26, 2000 04:33:23 PM
IP: reslife216-176.rescomp.arizona.edu

Ugh. I just witnessed one of the most twisted joecartoons ever. My stomach will never forgive me. Those of you familiar with joecartoon need only hear one word; Gerbil.

Gah!
Infinity
Sunday, November 26, 2000 04:30:40 PM
IP: 208.158.57.220

I will take the sea one when I get home from see the movie. ta (GONE)
James Birdsong - [<- go here and take the test]
99% unbreakable on air. 90% unbreakable on land
Sunday, November 26, 2000 01:31:10 PM
IP: adsl-63-207-129-39.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net

Whoops! Thanks for the correction, Todd. I was tired. :)
Kit
Sunday, November 26, 2000 06:40:06 AM
IP: pool-63.52.168.58.dlls.grid.net

KIT - Actually, it was Greg Bishansky who expressed those fears about Magneto, not me.

BISHANSKY - Thanks for filling me in on who Gyrich and Creed are. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think that we're likely to see that much of the anti-mutant attitude that led to the creation of things like Sentinel robots, because the evidence so far is that the series is taking place before the public en masse realizes that mutants exist. At most, we might get foreshadowings here and there.

We've only had two glimpses of Magneto so far, and that makes it too soon to judge how they'll be interpreting him; I do think that he's come across as effectively mysterious and menacing to date. From what I've seen of the series itself in its first four episodes, I doubt that they'll be that likely to fall into the trap of an oversimplified Magneto as a mere villain.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn@ninenet.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, November 26, 2000 06:37:45 AM
IP: 216.87.46.183.dialup-stl.primary.net

Hey guys, it's 5am and guess who has insomnia??? As per usual, I am doing something productive with my lack of sleeping.. :)
Azrael>> I dunno which country "officially" defeated the US but that whole 1812 deal where Canada did not become part of the US is proof enought that the US WAS defeated by the poutine-eatin, beer-drinkin, hockey-playin Canadians :)
I am however interested in this other country so please.. enlighten me :)

(I think I must be a bad Canadian cause I don't like poutine, beer or hockey.. never even had a whole beer and definately never been to a hockey game.. Though I did go to the World Series when the Jays won.. Now Baseball is a sport I can do. Nice and non violent :) and maybe football.. that is European football aka soccer, when the fans are sober)
Basketball was invented by a Canadian.. (this has been an up to the minute Canadian fact!!)
I love Canada, but I recognize that Canada's ways could not and probably should not be implimented in the US. Just so you know.. I do not advocate Canada's global domination.. :) though it would be nice if everyone could just get along..
:b
Love,

lain - [sanchinwalker@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 26, 2000 05:04:38 AM
IP: dynrez216-32189.dhr.reznet.uwo.ca

Hey guys!
A quick post and an RP!

In spring of 2001 I will officially release my series Future Tense. Probably beginning of March.

<BFTS RP>
The sunset quickly past mountains in the distance. With a massive
roar and deep yawn Uriel awoke from his stone slumber.

"You must be DPH, I am Uriel."

"Yes I am. This is Jason and Frost."

"Am I to understand that a battle is to take place soon?"

"Yes a battle with NCA. Come inside we will brief you on the plan."
DPH motioned for the door.
<End BFTS RP>

By y'all!
Brooklyn - [mango_11_19@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 26, 2000 01:10:18 AM
IP: 216.117.75.66

Doug: <grins> Nice ideas for X-Men Evolution. Wonder if they'll do Robert Kelly as a Class President hopeful. I do share Todd's fears about Magneto though, hope his image is improved on soon. Though it is good to keep him mysterious and menacing at least somewhat. <shrugs>

Call For Help: Did anybody in here watch Walker, Texas Ranger and The District on CBS tonight? If so, can you please e-mail summaries of the new episodes that came on to Doug and me? Our antenna didn't recieve the eps clearly, so we couldn't really watch them on our VCR even though we recorded them. :P We'd really appreciate if someone else can fill us in- hope somebody watched. If you did, please don't spare the details. It's gonna be forever before they show reruns, we are already sure. :( Thanks in advance to anybody who sends summaries our way.

More later!
Kit - [DougElder21@yahoo.com]
Sunday, November 26, 2000 12:13:24 AM
IP: pool-63.52.169.9.dlls.grid.net

Warpmind> <>: I do reccommend it. I quite enjoyed it. They give driving lessons to a blind guy, you find out how to pick a keypad door lock and what the government doesn't do, and there's the line "I cannot kill my friend. Kill my friend." That, and I'm almost positive that I will be Werner Brandis.
<>: Well, in that case, chanses are I've forgotten it all. I might have a vague idea what is possible, and I could always run it by my freshmen who are taking the courses at the moment.

Daniel Johnson> Welcome back.

I guess that's all from me. I'll try to remember to get the mp3 up when I reuturn to the dorm, and let's see how much of my time labs take up this week. I think there's only one, so that might be good. And I hope this cold is over soon.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, November 26, 2000 12:03:31 AM
IP: proxy3-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com

drat, 13th =)
Bronx
Saturday, November 25, 2000 11:01:02 PM
IP: spider-tr023.proxy.aol.com

Ak ! Top 12 then :D
Thomas
AustriaSaturday, November 25, 2000 10:59:01 PM
IP: goehheim1.unileoben.ac.at

*****BEGIN TECH SUPPORT WORK RANT******

Man, I hate weekends after holidays. Having to work the holiday was bad enough, but now I have to deal with all those people who broke their computers on Thursday. I never knew people could do these kind of things to their computers. And the whiners are the worst. "My computer won't..." or "Well, when I had a [insert competitor's brand here] I never had ..." or "You mean I have to call [insert other company here]? But they'll charge me..." Gyaaaaah!!! Why can't at least SOME of them READ the warranty information? Huh? Would it hurt them?

*****END TECH SUPPORT WORK RANT*****

Hey All, Just had to release some of the frustration I have with some of these people. I don't mind most of them, but its the ones who think they know what they're doing better than I do that annoy me.

Lain- One little known fact: While Canada did defeat the United States Army in a battle or two (I'm not completely sure, I'm not a historian. I only vaugely remember when, let alone why, what happened) there's only one nation in the world that has never been Officially beaten in a War, can you guess which one it is? And no, it's not Canada. :) (I'll give you a hint, they don't salute like any other nation in the world... ) Just a little fact I learned from having several relatives in the US Armed Forces.

Gunjack- Yeah, I may be up to speed, or nearly so, but now there's nothing really interesting to argue abou... I mean... discuss. Yeah, that's it, that's the ticket.

David G.- It's really sad that I'm more likely to get in touch with you this way than any other... I'm just wondering if I can borrow Eye of the World. This year and a half thing between Robert Jordan novels just ain't workin' for me. I've got to start over. Again.

Later, All
Azrael - [azrael_2099@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX
Saturday, November 25, 2000 10:53:47 PM
IP: 63.88.215.140

Somewhere in the top ten ...
Coyote the Bando
Saturday, November 25, 2000 09:32:19 PM
IP: 216.28.101.118

I claim 7th.. or 8th.. not picky. :)
Shinigami
Saturday, November 25, 2000 09:23:30 PM
IP: spider-wq052.proxy.aol.com

I want to say 6th? no way, this is sooo cool!
Daphne, apprentice-wordsmith
Saturday, November 25, 2000 09:12:59 PM
IP: dialup-63.214.217.187.philadelphia1.level3.net

TOP-ISH!
Fire Storm - [Night-Flame@usa.net]
Saturday, November 25, 2000 09:11:40 PM
IP: pppa10-resaleroyaloak1-1r7224.saturn.bbn.com

Todd> I can help you with your X-Men questions. Henry Ghyric was a Federal Security agent who ran the Sentinal program in both the cartoon and the comic book. Graydon Creed was the founder and leader of the Friends of Humanity. He was human and hated all mutants. Ironically Creed's parents were Victor Creed aka Sabertooth (for some reason the Fox series called him Graydon Creed Sr) and Raven Darkholme aka Mystique.

The new show is pretty good so far, I have yet to form a full opinion of it. My biggest fear is that Magneto will be turned into a typical "I want to rule the world" villain. Magneto has always been one of my favorite and one of the most complex antagonists I've ever encountered, he's up there with Demona, and there was a lot of nobility to him as well as an ends justify the means outlook on life. The X-Men movie captured Magneto perfectly. So far we've seen little of Magneto and what I have seen is frightening me. He doesn't even have a European accent. Well, I won't jump to any conclusions, I'll just wait and see.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky - [Madoc55@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 25, 2000 09:04:00 PM
IP: fe0-0.cache-01.nyc.bestweb.net

** Niamhgold enters **

Fifth? Sixth? Something like that!

Top Ten!

Adios!
Niamhgold
Saturday, November 25, 2000 08:36:53 PM
IP: lac-flex181.ncia.net

I'm Baaaack!!

I'm also third, but to dwell on that too much would be gloating. ;)

More later, hopefully.
Daniel Johnson - [danielj7@mac.com]
Ocean Grove, NJ, USA
Saturday, November 25, 2000 08:17:21 PM
IP: adsl-138-89-70-2.nnj.adsl.bellatlantic.net

*Archwolf comes in, dressed in sweat pants and sweater, carrying a copy of Winter's Heart.* Cold here. Colder in Cleveland.

**Various Fencing Team updates***
The Highschool Team> Finaly had a chance to talk to the coach from my highschool team and find out what'na hell he's been doing to that team. Turns out, he's reached burn out. So, now it is up to me to try to get intouch with the women's team captain and try to talk her back onto the team. Yippee.

College Team> The assistant coach, who we all love to death, has talked me into sticking out the semest, filing an official complaint, and running an inventory on our armory. Seems that the coach has been ordering equipment we never see.....
**End Fencing stuff***

Well, another thanksgiving comes and goes, with family gathering around a table asking "Did Liam eat all four pounds of mashed potatoes _already_?" One more set of family squables out of the way, until Christmas, and one last breath of fresh air taken before I have finals. Thank God it is over. Now I can concentrate on important things, like an NCAA tournament next weekend, during which my coach had damn well keep clear of me, and my induction into Sig Tau the night after. Then finals. Then another month at home, trying to go unnoticed by my parents (They _STILL_ try to make me rack out at midnight. They don't understand that that is the only time I can stay on line for hours at a time without worrying about anyone trying to call).

Doug and Kit> Welcome back, and good luck to the growing Family. My own sister is getting married in March, and it has every one here torn between happiness, anger that they are living together already, and stress over the big day.

Winterwolf and Doug> Thanks again for the well wishes with my fencing troubles. Things are being worked out, and I may endup staying on-team for a bit.

Aingeal, Cat, Mec> Pack Sister, Kitten, Elf, happy Holidays to all. See ya 'round some time.

**RP Here**
Umbrascape
Winter-Blade and Warfrost arrived without incident at the point in the umbra that would lead them to the Ravens in the true world. Winter-Blade eased the Klaive out of the sheath in her jacket. She had taken a quick peek into the normal world, and knew a battle awaited them. "Well, Warfrost," She said as she allowed herself to shift into the warform, almost 9 feet of musscle, fur, and very sharp teeth and claws, "lets rock." The direwolf growled in anticipation as the pair stepped out of the umbra....Into an almost empty mall center. "What the...I shouldn't have stepped out here..." She had stepped out of the umbra in the amusment area in the center of the Mall. A short distance away, a small group of pepole was kneeling together around a body, working frantically. "Well, there _was_ a battle here." Before she could move to see if these were the people she was looking for, she heard a faint sound. A whiporwill's trill. The fur on the back of her neck stood on end, and she bared her teeth. Black Spirals, twisted werewolves. Either this Thailog person was making pacts with the Wyrm itself, or ShadowWolf was playing games of his own. No matter. The first of the Twisted Ones moved from the cover of different shops, of what remained of them, and moved toward the group in the center. There were a lot of them. Not taking time to think, Winter-Blade took a deep breath and prepared to use a gift taught to he by one of her pack's totem spirits. She felt her connection witht the Mother take on life, and she let loose a soul shattering banshee's keen, surprising herself somewhat with the power of it. A keen that strong would be heard all over the mall, hopefully having the same effects it had here. The dark werewolves had stopped dead in their tracks looking truly terrified, giving Winter-Blade and Warfrost time to close in on them. The first fell to Winter-Blades silver Klaive, the second to Warfrost's razor shrp fangs, neither having the chance to defent themselves. She thought she saw some of the dark ones turn a nd flee. Looking over her soulder, she saw the small group of people looking at her, some fear in their eyes. Great, she thought, I've scared _them_ wittless too! "Snap out of it!" Was all she could get out before she found herself engaged with at least six very angry Black Spirals, all howling in their Rage. She heard Warfrost yelp as a particularly large werewolf lunged at him and sunk his fangs into the old Direwolf's hide. "Not Good..."
**End RP***

Well, friends, I have much more Robert Jordan to read through tonight.

Shade and Sweet Water

Archwolf - [archwolf@collegeclub.com]
Saturday, November 25, 2000 08:10:55 PM
IP: pumpkin-a-25.mcmurray.nb.net

I'm Number 2!!!

SOROW> If I was living alone, I'd mail you a bus ticket ;)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 25, 2000 08:05:09 PM
IP: adsl-78-220-248.msy.bellsouth.net

Top Ten? First? Heh
Real post soon
Archwolf
Saturday, November 25, 2000 07:58:39 PM
IP: pumpkin-a-25.mcmurray.nb.net