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Greetings;

Well hello again. It feels strange posting again so soon, but here I go.

Israel and Palestine: All I want to say about this is that I believe in there being an Israel and a Palestine. I believe in the struggle of the Israeli and Palestinian people in that, for the most part, they want peace. What I don't believe in is that the respective governments truly want peace. There's too much bad blood between the two, and both are too quick to fall back on violence as a solution.

Peace may come for the Middle East, but not for a long time, right now there is just too much hate.

DPH: Really, I've got nerve. Which part of my post are you referring to?

Lain: Congrats on the house. I have a friend starting Law in TO and she's getting set to go through the housing hell. I can only imagine the fun she's going to have ;-)

Josh: Well at least one person agrees with my tirade on cultural degeneration.

Jan: Surprise, surprise I'm an Outsider.

Forbidden TV shows: None, that's right none. I was allowed to watch whatever I wanted when I was young. However my childhood was wasted in many ways. First I had to leave for school at 6:30AM, this cut out the morning cartoons. Secondly, my Saturday mornings were booked solid from 8:30AM-2:00PM so I missed many of the popular "kids" shows. Instead I did enjoy shows like Tour of Duty, Dr. Who and Werewolf among others.

Well I need to be in the lab early tomorrow so goodnight.

Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:11:57 PM
IP: 24.43.225.56

MC <<<Actually, Demona did not enjoy being tortured and raped in my fiction, she was traumatized to the point of catatonia. But I do remember that was the part of my story you enjoyed the most.>>>

Mmm… nope. That wasn’t my favorite part. The scene between Demona and Xanatos in the first story was my favorite part. I just liked the tension and the novelty. I don’t really enjoy dirty stories-I read for plot-so I tend to skim on the dirty parts (which, admittedly, doesn’t always leave me with much to read).

But to be fair, you did write an arousal response on Demona’s part, something she’d been programmed with due to Thailog. I found that one of the most *clever* parts-but I didn’t really relish it. But of course, I skimmed this for the most part.

Just to be clear: I’m not turned on by rape or murder, as you seem to be implying. In fact, I really don’t read porno at all anymore. If I want to be turned on, I’ll find something filthy, not a garg story. I read Madame Destine but skimp on the dirty parts (perhaps backwards of what most of her fans are doing?) Same with you.

BTW, when is the next book, or chapter, do out?

Josh>>> This is not a very good argument from a master-debating standpoint.>>>

I’m not a master debater. Heck, even MC can run rings around me. I try to use arguments that the majority of people would agree with. I tend to win arguments on my favorite subjects (guns, taxes, welfare, late term abortion) and do better in person.

<<Second, any of the Arab nations (particularly Jordan) could take these few Palestinians in>>: That's not an argument against the existence of refugee camps. That's a justification.>>>

I wouldn’t call them refugee camps. ‘Camps’ implies tents, something not permanent. We’re talking basically about cities, here. So I deny that there are ‘camps.’ I would say ‘settlements,’ or ‘cities.’

Those saying everything would be alright if the Jews just up and died-as would bring so much glee to the hearts of the vicious savages that constantly attack Israel, and those who support them-is just silly. That is like saying my life would be perfect if I moved from upstate to downstate NY. The fact is, the PALESTINIAN’S determine their fate. They can either accept Israel, and work on building their own land up-or they can make suicidal attacks on Israel, and remain with nothing.

The choice is theirs.

As for the ‘justification’: There is no justification for refugees-the Jordanian’s should stop dragging their feet and accept these poor people. What they are doing is cruel. What ALL the Arab nations have done since 1948 is cruel.

Even if I accepted that Israel is responsible for the plight of the people whom (as a tool of the Arab nations) tried to destroy the Jews in 1948, thus rejecting peace, and even if I *KNEW* the destruction of the Jewish state would greatly benefit said people, I *STILL* would not support the ruination of the only Jewish state in the world. The Jews deserve the homeland we’ve fought and died for for so many generations, and that we’d waited for for so many centuries before.

Sticks and stone may break my bones, but I will never let Jerusalem be divided.

impfac - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:32:02 PM
IP: 66.66.203.129

And, in the spirit of flame wars, zionism, terrorism, SJ being racist, and a whole bunch of other things that really scare us...take the quiz at this link and see if you're a real american:

Note: I crashed this thing.
Josh
Saturday, April 27, 2002 06:59:16 PM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Jan: I'm a Goth. And for the other tests on that site, I'm a Pleasure Slave and a Backstabber. Pretty cool site though, thanks for the link.

Josh:<<the jude is out of order>>: Jews are out of order!? Crap!

I meant judge.... I really did.

<<as much as I would love to see a fandom civil war>>: Who is your money on?

My Clan.

<<Ask me, and I WILL name names happily>>: OOh ooh, me?! (I don't care about anyone else).

Yeah, you can be an instigator. Josh, you're now on my bad list. ::winks::

Spacebabie:That is for waking the Goddess Mara from her nappy nap.

Thank you, Miko. Mucho blessings and pleasant affectionate attention to thee.

<<<the jude is out of order>>> Goodness St Jude is out of order?

Um.. sure. Why not. All the Sainthood is out of order. :)

<<<Kill it. Dead>>>:::Licks her daggers:::Its dead as its going to get.

::pets:: Thanks why you're my Miko.

<<<Grown men and women should not need to be reprimanded by a girl who can't even purchase alcohol yet.>>> Exactly..another reason why I’m keeping this bottle of wine out of the paws from this lot..its reserved for your 21st.

YAYE! You coming to the Gathering this year? Next year? We missed your company last time.
Shinigami
Saturday, April 27, 2002 05:06:36 PM
IP: 172.134.108.134

I'm a Goth, Who'da thunk it? ;)
Revel
Saturday, April 27, 2002 01:56:30 PM
IP: 129.120.230.108

Jan's test> Hey....what gives? It said I am Satan 8(. Hhhehehehe, just kidding. I turned out to be a goody-two-shoes (or however yuo say it :}).
metaldlemon
Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:54:10 AM
IP: 24.219.165.75

:::Spies N. Sult and Dis Harmony dancing together. She pulls out here two daggers. She lops off Sult’s head . She then concentrates and one of the daggers blade’s grows longer. She uses the blade to skwer through Harmony’s body with Sults head on top like a cherry.:::
That is for waking the Goddess Mara from her nappy nap.

I went to the duck pond yesterday. One of them was male mallard duck. You know the type ..brown body glossy green head. There were also two white Afflack ducks
Pleasant and peaceful day in all. I spent an hour by the pool reading a Grisham novel.

Anonymous >>>YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE WHEN WILL YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR MIND?!

IMPVAC<<<develop social problems later in life.>>>Well I do have that…S.A.D

Mara-sama<<<the jude is out of order>>> Goodness St Jude is out of order?<<<Kill it. Dead>>>:::Licks her daggers:::Its dead as its going to get.<<<Grown men and women should not need to be reprimanded by a girl who can't even purchase alcohol yet.>>> Exactly..another reason why I’m keeping this bottle of wine out of the paws from this lot..its reserved for your 21st.

Jan>>>I’m a Goody Two Shoes.

Rayvn<<<Woo, and I'm *really* gettin' tipsy now ... ;) Laters!>>>Coyote needs to raise your tolerance level.

Gside<<<Care to visit Jersey and have that little problem taken dealt with?>>>Why the hell would I want to go there. How about you come down here?<<<How's 42 sound to you? >>>I think I know how you answered that one question on the test.

Mooncat<<<Renaissance Faire! yay!!! Turkey legs and chocolate dipped strawberries!>>I had a lot of fun at the Renaissance fair that I went to in my Senior year.

Josh<<>>Classes start in Awghost <<<There's a queue? Who else is in it?>>>Wouldn’t you like to know.<<<In that order? >>> If you choose.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:50:03 AM
IP: 65.57.80.15

Lain - sweet! Noir is a fave anime, and Sara Maclachlan (sp?) is a fave singing artist. I got introduced to her music back when she was doing songs used as backgrounds for Due South. One thing I really enjoy about shows filmed in Canada, or at least the ones we get to see here, is the use of their home talent.

Nice smooth edits. What did you use?

MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Saturday, April 27, 2002 08:55:16 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

I had to do work today. I hate it when that happens. It's friday! People don't work on Friday!

Jan's Test: I'm either a Geek or a Goodie Two Shoes...which is kind of odd. I guess I don't care enough to be the suicidal goth person.

Lain: <<sandwiched between two naked female breasts>>: LOL. What a happy baby. <<why cant you be this logical and civil with ALL of the comments you post in here?>>: Because stupidity annoys me. <<so THERE, josh>>: Congrats. <<will hockey never END>>: Don't comment, its the only sport your country is good at. <<NO MORE CARDBOARD BOX!>>: Hey, if the cardboard box has a 'net connection, its all good 8-)

Mooncat: <<which analogy was meant for whom?>>: Actually, neither for either of you. Really. I was just trying to paint a picture of disagreement, nothing more.

Stephen: <<I'd like to keep my personables intact, thank you>>: Oh, I don't fear much from someone in Kansas. <<not liking this R. Salvatore writer>>: Really? I didn't mind his stuff at all. Try his Rogue Squadron book(s).

Spacebabie: <>: I may not have told you this recently, but I hate you. <<Yes I was abused>>: So was everyone else in this room, I think. <<Take a number>>: There's a queue? Who else is in it? <<Oh he knows, he is a dirty old man>>: Sweet. <<ello shooters and a strip club>>: In that order?

IMPFAC: <>: Most the egos in here are far too big to resist flaming. <<We do>>: Well, no. Just because you've had a few successes doesn't mean you stand more of a chance of filtering smut from the home than a parent who cares. It's a lot easier for my parents to enforce a "no-HBO" rule than it is for you to get congress to mandate the placement of a V-chip in my house. <<people utilizing your argument vehemently attacked before on similar grounds>>: I think the bigger problem is censorship. Its not too unreasonable for congress mandating the placement of V-chips in all televisions, followed by a shady deal between some politician and the V-chip maker to permanently block...something. <<Not by my parents but by a babysitter>>: ewww! <<Using suicide bombers to attack civilians is warfare? No-that is terrorism. It is evil>>: This is not a very good argument from a master-debating standpoint. Why is it not warfare, why is it different. <<Second, any of the Arab nations (particularly Jordan) could take these few Palestinians in>>: That's not an argument against the existence of refugee camps. That's a justification.

Patrick: <<I've never understood the way things work in here>>: Why not? It's fairly simple to understand. <<Then an admin comes along before the target of the insults can get in a rebuttal and declares that the next person to respond to the thread will be tossed into... bum, bum, BUM... (hoarse whisper) "the Pit of Despair!>>: I think the idea is to stop the flame war before it goes on, der. Suppose that person gets another word in, and attacks the first person who made the comment. Then the admin steps in. Then, you have another person who got attacked who didn't get a chance to defend themselves. Kind of a cycle there. <<it pays off to be quick and make pre-emptive strikes>>: It's impossible to stop a flame war *before* it starts. <<the people who start it reprimanded for a change>>: You're right, but sometimes its hard to be impartial to that. What an admin might interpret as a flame (for instance, my comments to you right here), might not be interpreted as a flame by anyone else until you post tomorrow and say "Oh yeah! Well you smell bad!" <>: I still have no idea what they were about, but alright.

SJ: <<What could have possibly drug me from the Abyss back into here?>>: And here I was hoping that you'd be posting with your standard humor about *something* interesting.

Shinigami: <<the jude is out of order>>: Jews are out of order!? Crap! <<as much as I would love to see a fandom civil war>>: Who is your money on? <<then I have to step down from ON HIGH>>: I thought you were in NYC. <<act like a total asshole>>: Oh like its so hard ;-) <<Ask me, and I WILL name names happily>>: OOh ooh, me?! (I don't care about anyone else). <<Grown men and women should not need to be reprimanded by a girl who can't even purchase alcohol yet>>: Its easy to say that, but remember that we were all brought together by a cartoon. <<On a brighter note, C#>>: Ewww! C# is evil!

DPH: <<Is that when you'll finally concede that TGS Timedancer season 4 will be published?>>: Nope. 29 days.

Ravyn: <>: Alcohol? <<Automotive stuff>>: I've been to a lot of auto shops, dealerships, and car shows, and I only see women doing two things in that industry: answering phones and wearing bikinis. Personally, I can't see why a woman wouldn't make just as effective a car salesperson as a man. I just rarely see it.

Gside: <<there aren't many supermodels who are also engineers>>: Who said I wanted to be an engineer? <>: Me too. Odd, that. <<do it more often if I were taking a web class>>: I wonder if I'll find myself singing it this summer. <<My first is the seventh>>: Lucky dog. My easiest final is first...I'm not real thrilled about that. <>: You'd be wrong. <<population of Bush>>: Um... <<Care to visit Jersey and have that little problem taken dealt with?>>: If she does, her invite to San Jose is revoked. <<How's 42 sound to you?>>: Wouldn't you rather be #1 in this case? Hehe, pound 1... <<until he found out how late his draft number was>>: My dad was...number 5. <<that's a recurring...theme in porn>>: I never see that. <>: I think its just some dumb kid.

Vash: <<If you don't know that 'bs' means "backstabbing", you haven't been playing SC enough--that or you've been really lucky>>: I just don't play on Battlenet.

Alright, fun's over. Going to sleep soon.

...now they're stuck having political reality dictated to them by a Godless society of pleasure-drunk hedonists whose idea of subtle diplomacy is a carrier battlegroup.
-Gunjack Valentine, TGS CR

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Saturday, April 27, 2002 03:01:16 AM
IP: 64.161.25.122

gside>> Don't you have something to pimp?

oh yeaaaaah!

well guys, gside (being the totally COOL sexy dude he is) has put my brand spanking new "noir" anime music vid up on his temp directory!
YAAAAAY!

its about 43 megs.. and almost 7 minutes long but.. lots of fun. clickie to check it out!!!

lain
the Great White North
Saturday, April 27, 2002 02:42:22 AM
IP: 64.228.197.197

Stereotype Test -- Geek. Pure Geek. It was the role playing questions that were my downfall I'm sure. On the upside, tonight's game ruled and I think I sent one of the hoard of guardsmen attacking us to his flaming death with my arrow through his heart *^_^* Yay! We're only outnumbered five to one, and it's a few turns before the guys I'm shooting at get into melee range. I'm sure I can pick a few more off before having to go into knife fighting mode.

The bad news is that the house we're gaming at is my ex-boyfriend's, and his new wife makes us quit at midnight. What's the use of drinking so much Diet Dr. Pepper if you can't play until dawn?

But it's all just as well. Since tomorrow is a Renaisance Faire! yay!!! Turkey legs and chocolate dipped strawberries! Yum!!! But it's raining tonight =( ... Hope tomorrow won't be too wet.

I bought lots and lots of pretty polished stones, and some nifty books on their magical/spiritual properties. If I learn wire wrapping, I may make some custom charm bracelets for me and some friends.

Hmmm... new stove tomorrow, new stove tomorrow!!! Gonna cook a turkey, gonna cook a roast, gonna grill some salmon... well not all at once of course.... gonna bake some cakes and cookies and darn it all... make some gingerbread.

Mooncat
buzzed on Caffine
and gaming snack food...

"nibble nibble little mouse, who is nibbling on my house?" -- Some sweet little old lady who lives in the woods.
Mooncat
Saturday, April 27, 2002 02:01:24 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Winterwolf> Hi back at you. =) I hope I'll see Dreamie in chat tomorrow.

Josh> If you don't know that 'bs' means "backstabbing", you haven't been playing SC enough--that or you've been really lucky. =) The others are 'don't die', 'have fun', and 'no rush'. And yeah, I forgot 'gg'. And gj, I guess.

Hm, I think I confused that stereotype test thing by not showing a consistent pattern with my answers. It finally settled on "jock", which I'm *so not*. =P
Vashkoda
Saturday, April 27, 2002 01:46:57 AM
IP: 129.98.122.194

Imzadi> <>: And there aren't many supermodels who are also engineers.
<<When was the last time you heard a kid sing "C is for Cookie"?>>: I do every now and then, but I'd probably do it more often if I were taking a web class.
<<don't post between May 16 and 24, k? I'll never study for finals if I have to reply to you>>: My first is the seventh, but that's the hardes, so that gives you about a week window.
<<No>>: I think you're lying.
<<Ah, the flawless justification>>: I think so.
<<Women or male-dominated industries?>>: People in places you don't expect them. Like the entire population of Bush and the School of Engineering being split between Asians and Indians. Even though most of my suite disproves both.

Lain> Don't you have something to pimp?
<<its the FOURTH sign of the apocalypse>>: We are well beyond fourth by now.

Christine> <<Zombies can now order brains online>>: That site was set up because of a plot in a webcomic. See goats.com, or moistnap.com, stoolfairy.com, or beefnut.com for related sites.

Spacebabie> <>: Care to visit Jersey and have that little problem taken dealt with?
<<Take a number>>: How's 42 sound to you?
<<My dad was in ROTC in College during Nam>>: As was mine, until he found out how late his draft number was.
<>: Oddly enough, that's a recurring (if rarely) theme in porn.

Anon> <<Did you have a nice day>>: Utterly insane. Not my day, I mean you.

Patrick Toman> <<if I may quote Weird Al - "posting 'me too' like some brain deal AOL-er.">>: Remember, this is still The September That Never Ended. (see http://www.science.uva.nl/~mes/jargon/s/septemberthatneverended.html )

Ravyn> <<Cute>>: Thanks.

Na zdorov'ya.

Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Saturday, April 27, 2002 01:38:19 AM
IP: 198.151.130.133

Jan/lain: Ive seen that test. Bet you can't guess what "stereotype" you are if you click the 2nd from the bottom on each question. :-)
Leo
Saturday, April 27, 2002 01:07:44 AM
IP: 172.158.211.248

Hey, all! I just had a great dinner out with my old supervisor who quit and got married and everything ... yep, we went out to dinner, and I had some sort of Baja somethin' er other drink, so ... forgive me if I sound a little funky. ;)

Jan> Cute test!!!! I am a Geek ... no surprise there. :)

Gside> <<I'll refuse to believe they exst, probably even after I've seen proof. Mostly joking.>> **chuckles** Cute. ;)

Josh> <<Any particular industry you had in mind?>> Automotive stuff. :) I agree with you about the firefighting example ... anything where there's a certain physical requirement that *must* be met, if you can't do it, you can't do it.

lain> Congrats on the place to live. ;)

Coyote> Love you!

Woo, and I'm *really* gettin' tipsy now ... ;) Laters!
Ravyn
Saturday, April 27, 2002 12:22:15 AM
IP: 150.135.180.226

Jan - I bet everybody can name which one I turned out to be on that quiz. Of course, no one would probably guess which one I turned out to be for the RP quiz on that site.

::Grins:: I'm sure everyone would be pleased to know that I turned out to be Demi-God on the RP quiz.

GXB - <hmm, no I'll have better things to entertain me for my 21st birthday> Don't trust anything anyone sends you, especially a pizza. You never know what toppings might be "invisible" but noticable.

Gunjack - <DU sucks muchly.> Damn. There goes nuclear grenades as a weapon of the future.

Imzadi - <30 more days.> Is that when you'll finally concede that TGS Timedancer season 4 will be published?

Yggdrasil - That's some nerve you've got.
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, April 27, 2002 12:20:02 AM
IP: 204.94.193.61

jan>> surprise! im an "outsider" poor me :P

funny test tho
lain
Friday, April 26, 2002 11:43:35 PM
IP: 64.228.197.197

A much needed break of silliness ;)

I found this "test" and thought it was funny. Heh, I have a weird sense of humor *shrugs* ;)

I'm a blonde (according to the test) *L*
Jan - [<<---- clickie]
Friday, April 26, 2002 11:21:55 PM
IP: 12.110.236.100

Okay. (deadpan) I'm out of order, you're out of order, the jude is out of order, and the whole damn court room is out of order.

Kill it. Dead. Debates are fine, and you all were doing okay but certain groups of people obviously do NOT get along. For the sake of the peaceful CR members who have only brought happy information sharing and rapport to this place, I will not go so far as to call out these groups. But certainly you know who you are. And as much as I believe that we are not Clan, but many clans, and as much as I would love to see a fandom civil war.. not on my beat, not today, and not in this CR. Behave. Everyone.

Take a time out before writing something scathing here. Or better yet, email that person, and keep this room out of it. I don't see the need for an audience. We are not cheering you on. I don't hoot at a scathing remark, even if it is about someone I don't necessarily like. Why? Because it is inappropriate here. It annoys me. Because then I have to step down from ON HIGH, and act like a total asshole. I have better things to do, a con to plan for next year, fic to write, the last thing I want to do is be admin-ly.

IMPFAC:I was the only one that argued with her on the adult page, and I took months of abuse

Actually, as memory serves, you were the one who loved to start heated debates in the adult cr, and we all ignored you trying to get a rise out of everyone- except perhaps for Mooncat. Don't play, this is a different room. As for months of abuse, I'd hardly call it that. Not many people post in there, but alot of people lurk, and I doubt they all would agree with your perspective. I know I don't, you'd try to cause quite a stir in there especially when you had just come in. This room is an opportunity to be different.

Patrick:Which means, I guess, that the lesson is not that hurling insults and being a generally obnoxious prick is bad... the lesson is when one wants to behave that way, it pays off to be quick and make pre-emptive strikes. So I dunno... maybe this "warning" system needs to be re-thought. Maybe the standing rule should be to not do it, PERIOD, and the people who start it reprimanded for a change.

Fine. EVERYONE. DON'T FLAME. DON'T START EITHER OR I'LL REPRIMAND YOU AND LET THE PERSON YOU FLAMED GET THE LAST DIGGING POINT INSTEAD OF PUTTING AN ISSUE AT REST. I'm sure even though the troublemakers in this CR (Ask me, and I WILL name names happily and without care of who I happen to like personally) never listen to the admins until we have to ban someone that you'll *surely* start listening now that I've repeated Patrick's idea.

Better, folks? Unless you are one of the minors from one of our many child-related debates, stop acting like children. Grown men and women should not need to be reprimanded by a girl who can't even purchase alcohol yet. Aren't y'all ashamed of yourselves?

On a brighter note, C#.
Shinigami
Friday, April 26, 2002 10:30:58 PM
IP: 172.143.13.206

**SJ is suddenly, violently throw into the CR**

.....the hell? What could have possibly drug me from the Abyss back into here?

OHHHHHHH, this.

<<And thereby the person who was attacked without provokation to begin with becomes the bad guy if he or she reponds in his or her own defense.>>

The very thought that you, of all people, would be posting those words, is STAGGERING. I'm sitting here, reading what you've written, and the irony is so unbelievably heavy in each and every single letter of that sentence that I find myself crushed beneath the weight of it all. It is utterly mind boggling. I have been momentarily struck stupefied.

I mean, SHIT. If you or someone else had said this 2 years ago, I'd wager a whole hell of a lot of torment & anguish could have been avoided.

All of you people who don't understand what I'm referencing here, just scratch your head accordingly, and ignore my ramblings.
Sevarius Jr. - [sevariusjr@hotmail.com]
Friday, April 26, 2002 09:18:02 PM
IP: 207.172.11.147

You know, I've never understood the way things work in here. Someone hurls insults at someone else in a way that's sure to provoke hurt and anger. Someone else comes along and joins in by - if I may quote Weird Al - "posting 'me too' like some brain deal AOL-er." Then an admin comes along before the target of the insults can get in a rebuttal and declares that the next person to respond to the thread will be tossed into... bum, bum, BUM... (hoarse whisper) "the Pit of Despair!" And thereby the person who was attacked without provokation to begin with becomes the bad guy if he or she reponds in his or her own defense. Which means, I guess, that the lesson is not that hurling insults and being a generally obnoxious prick is bad... the lesson is when one wants to behave that way, it pays off to be quick and make pre-emptive strikes. So I dunno... maybe this "warning" system needs to be re-thought. Maybe the standing rule should be to not do it, PERIOD, and the people who start it reprimanded for a change.

Just my shiny two cents on that.

Impfac > You can't have your morality cake and eat it too.

Josh > I take back the kind words I offered the other day.

Mooncat > :: scratches behind the ears :: To quote Margaret Atwood, "Nolite bastardes carborundum."

:: goes back to watching "When Animals Invade Your Home!" on Fox ::
Patrick Toman
Friday, April 26, 2002 08:38:44 PM
IP: 66.72.203.18

Impfac -- Actually, Demona did not enjoy being tortured and raped in my fiction, she was traumatized to the point of catatonia. But I do remember that was the part of my story you enjoyed the most.

I never said you were not a good person for liking adult fiction. Though I don't find scenes where a twelve year old boy is brutally raped to death with a demonic artifact "yummy" as you specifically described it, I totally support your right to enjoy whatever fiction you wish. It is after all only fiction.

Mooncat
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Friday, April 26, 2002 08:02:51 PM
IP: 65.30.26.173

Sorry, missed some stuff:

SB <<<Abused and neglected children grow up to be criminals, who produce more little criminals. Not all, but a disturbing number. >>>I was about to snap “EXCUSE ME” until I saw the not all part, Yes I was abused. Not by my parents but by a babysitter. I have never commited a crime in my life.

Thanks. That is the point MC doesn’t get. I’ve never been sold on “well, I didn’t-” or “I have a FRIEND-” arguments. Statistically, abused children are more likely to develop social problems later in life. Sure, MC didn’t-but she can be counted as lucky.

Hyperion <<<Israel was founded only after the Jews started bombing locations in England.>>>

Israel was founded after hundreds of years of peaceful settlement by Jewish settlers, who developed Palistine into a first world nation, building infrastructure, farms, hospitals, etc etc.

Heck, Jews INVENTED terrorism-Zionist activities against the Roman occupiers are the first known terrorist attacks (as I recall). Just because Jews have used in the past terror doesn’t make it right to use it in the modern world today.

<<<Furthermore, Palistine is fighting an encroaching enemy in the only way it can. It has no armed forces or infrastructure, so it's using it only resource, it's people, as a means of engaging in warfare.>>>

Using suicide bombers to attack civilians is warfare? No-that is terrorism. It is evil. And those who do it should not be rewarded-they should be killed.

<<<Don't forget Israel essentially has the Palestinians in concentration ("refugee") camps, has systematically destroyed their infrastructure and continues to encroach on their territory ("settlements")>>>

This is a lie. First, the ‘refugee’ camps are well settled, as they have been lived in for decades. Second, any of the Arab nations (particularly Jordan) could take these few Palestinians in. They are so big on the plight of the Palestinians, why don’t they do it? Fact: Because the Palestinians are just PAWNS.

Jordan has had laws on the books for YEARS treating refugees as second class citizens and baring them from certain jobs-basically, keeping them in poverty. Why? To make sure their suffering is not alleviated, and they are there for political expedience. This is wrong.

<<<Far from terrorist attacks, the Palistinians are simply fighting a resistance much like the people of Europe did during WWII.>>>

In WWII, freedom fighters targeted tanks, infrastructure, rail road tracks, officers with assassinations, etc. They did NOT blow up German families in church. Big difference.

Okay, I will admit it: Terrorism is an effective tool. I would resort to it if I had to-anyone would. But I believe that Israel-the only Jewish state in the world-has a right to exist. The onus of violence is on the Palestinians. When Israel offered record concessions to the Palestinian's, Arafat responded by sending in a wave of suicide bombers and setting of the current intafada (sp?).

When Palestinian attacks cease, there will be peace. But whenever Palestine doesn’t like what is offered, they automatically turn to terror. That is wrong, and if there is EVER to be peace, THIS MUST END.

Would we offer Bin Laden half of Washington on the agreement that he would stop murdering civilians (after we just proved to him it is an effective tool to get what he wants)? No. And we don’t give terrorists the capital of Jerusalem as reward for their murderous ways for the promise-on their good will-to reign in the terror.

Oh, and-YOU’RE A TERRORIST AND AN IDIOT!!!! *~_^*

As Truman would say, “That one is free.”

Be well,

Imperial Fascism

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Friday, April 26, 2002 07:04:19 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

MC<<<You are such a good person. Such a moral person. You must be, because I've lost count of all the times you have said so. And I really enjoyed the fic you recommended to me by Shard Iceblade. What was that "yummy" scene you were raving on about again? The one where Demona snuffs the twelve year old boy?>>>>

Wow, reading a dirty story makes me immoral? Huh. I’ll just point out that bazaar contradiction in you’re flame (since Josh is right: I see your ego is far to big to resist flaming). Hey, you know what? I enjoyed a story in which Demona kills a 12 year old kid. I must be really awful, huh?

AHAHAHAHA! MC says liking a dirty story makes me bad! That is just so damn special, coming from the queen of porn! MC, you WROTE a story were Demona is turned on by hours of brutal rape/torture! Am I bad for liking that story, too! *~_^* That is rich!!

Your so indignant that people ignore your points, yet this is your reply to mine? You say I only debate with lies, so I guess you don’t even have to bother with anything but the personal insults, huh?

I only said I TRY and be good. I have no clue what you aim for, but from your posts it is some internal, not external, thing. I know as a Pagan you don’t really understand Christian-Western values.

Please, MC, listen to the admin for once and calm down. Even if people DO insult you, you don’t need to insult back. Just do what I am trying to do and point it out instead. Josh wasn't being appropriate, but you just make yourself look the bigger jerk for taking it up a step. Than again, you already know this, and if you don’t.... well....

<<<Your answer to a better society is to control the media>>>

I didn’t hear her say that. What did you hear?

<<<Of the two, which of us has the better chance at putting their answer into effect?>>>

We do. Things like the V-Chip and parental rating systems, which people utilizing your argument vehemently attacked before on similar grounds, are a huge step in the right direction.

NO ONE IS CALLING FOR CENSORSHIP! For heavens sake, stop twisting our words! We’re simply stating that the media has a corrosive effect on children. I haven’t said ONCE what I thought should be done about it-stop saying otherwise.

What SHOULD be done? I have no clue. MC, please, tell me what I think we should do, since you obviously know so well.

Josh and Jan are right; MC is just playing her little game. She flames anyone who disagrees, than plays the victim when she gets burned. I was the only one that argued with her on the adult page, and I took months of abuse. I’m glad to actually find a chat were people notice she’s no angle.

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Friday, April 26, 2002 06:48:26 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Did you have a nice day.
Anonymous
Friday, April 26, 2002 04:46:56 PM
IP: 152.163.201.199

oh HOUSE!
house house house house!

NO MORE CARDBOARD BOX!!!!!!

SOOOOOOOO NIIIIIIIIIICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! *falls over giggling with glee*

.... *stay tuned for more after i stop bouncing off the walls....*

lain
Friday, April 26, 2002 02:58:56 PM
IP: 64.228.197.197

Spacebabie -- share the moment of silence...

...

Waterfalls was one of my favorite all time songs. Beautiful for both it's lyrics, and the amazing video. My heart goes out to the family and loved ones of Left Eye. requiem in pace

Kaioto -- yes, I agree. Fantastic breakdown, intelligent and well detailed. Pretty much shows the reason I will not have children until I'm financially stable enough to give them a good home and spend time with them, with the help of a decent mate.

When I take a lover it is only as long as the ones who /can/ sire children are either financially secure with an instilled ethical viewpoint that if children result we'd be in it together and thus is good mate material at the get go -- I have no problem with being a stay at home mom and devoted to my kids, as long as I have the right mate -- or they simply *can't* sire children. No, I'm not talking about safe sex either. Ne?

Otherwise, I'm pretty chaste, and don't intend to have a child without a mate unless I'm really, reeeeeally wealthy on my own, and can afford to do a good job solo. So if I ever win the lottery big time *^_^* I will probably seriously consider raising a kid. If not my own biological child, then I'd go to China and adopt a little girl.

I do know a lot of single, and or struggling parents who are actually *quite good parents*. Their kids are growing up decent, and I have nothing but deepest and abiding respect for them. But it does take sacrifice out the yin yang, dedication and hard, hard work. That kind of sacrifice is the purest and most awesome thing I get to see in Real Life, and it's just ordinary life to them.

I don't know if I'd hold up as well under that kind of extreme sacrifice, which is why I'm adamant about being in a very good situation before, if ever, I have children of my own. Just a personal life choice.

Christine -- Awesome news on the "Safe Sucks" story. I really enjoyed it, and the main female character really was solid and a joy to read. I wouldn't mind following her through more story if you decide to write more with her. The universe you created was fun to get into. But then I'm a huge vampire fan. Still love those flowers you created. Just lovely. *does happy dance for CM*

Well, weather is still cold, wet, and I'm running on dregs of sleep. But company is coming in a couple of hours for the weekly friends out on the town thing. ack. The weekly ritual includes the comic book shoppe, the kid toy shops (all kinds), game stores, the book stores, the various little shops that catch our fancy... I need to go to the rock shop and pick up some agate stones... And eating a nice supper together unless we're pressed for time for a movie. But tonight no movie, just some nice old fashioned RPG. Yay! Tonight is the first night we get to run our new Exalted characters through their paces! Yay!

The stove/oven people called, and I get my new oven tomorrow! Double yay!!! My ex-boyfriend came by last night and loaned me a hot plate. I made hot cocoa and ramen at midnight and did a little joyful kitten dance. Nothing to make you happy on a cold wet night like hot ramen noodles and cocoa. But it took forever for the little hot plate to heat enough to get the water boiling. sigh... Can't wait to get my new stove. If it's still this cold Sat/Sun, I'm roasting a turkey.

I think I placed two cats. Kewl Beans. My lovely snow leopard spotted retired queen, and a gorgeous brown spotted kitten. I've decided to keep Delilah (previously Demona) for myself. She's got the most intense leopard spot rosettes. Soon as the sun returns, I'll take pictures of her.

later
MC
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Friday, April 26, 2002 02:29:34 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

:::Enters listening to “Waterfalls”:::
A moment of silence for Lisa”Left eye” Lopez of TLC who died in an Auto accident.

I am Free for the summer. Just had my final last night and now classes are over.

Replies
IMPFAC>>> Congrats on getting your point across to those idiots.<<<Abused and neglected children grow up to be criminals, who produce more little criminals. Not all, but a disturbing number. >>>I was about to snap “EXCUSE ME” until I saw the not all part, Yes I was abused. Not by my parents but by a babysitter. I have never commited a crime in my life.

Gside<<>> Take a number.

Josh<<<They just told me they'd tell me later. I usually forgot about it within minutes>>Ahh no short term memory, the sign of a young male.<<<Maybe your dad really doesn't know ;-) >>>Oh he knows, he is a dirty old man.<<<Damn, that's some big ears. >>>Only used by Ross Perot <<<And most of the are deadly.>>>Most of THE are deadly? Speakin in old English now?<<<I'm so glad my parents were too young to be hippies.>>>My dad was in ROTC in College during Nam he and the other troops aimed their faux guns at the protesting Hippies.<<<Too bad you didn't learn to spell.>>>We both are victims of Tai Po here. Mr Merry old English.<<<And learned to read on Dr. Suess, right? >>>No it was the Little Train that could<<<What is the world coming to?>>>Its coming to us the younger generation.<<<Abercrombie & B*tch: B*tch, because all the chicks at my school who wore that were trendy b*tches. >>>and my brother who is a male bitca.

Jim R>>>OMG Please don’t think all of us Christians think like that. Pokemon is trying to influence Darwinism on children, Oy.

Christine<<<everything I ever needed to know about cooking naked, I learned from observing my ex, who was boiling pasta in the nude and scalded his vermicelli.>>>YEEEOUCH! I never cook in the nude, but If I did I’d wear a apron. <<<inhaled soda and, coughing, trying not to laugh>>>That must have been a sight.

Jan<<<Update on the horses: a total of 6 dead.>>>That royally sucks and is sad :::Hugs her stuffed horse:::

Wilek>>>Well said.

Lain<<>>Congrats.

GXB<<<hmm, no I'll have better things to entertain me for my 21st birthday>>>Jello shooters and a strip club.

"So thats what happened to all my old makeup"Dee Snyder looking at Mimi on the Drew Carrey Show.
Spacebabie
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Friday, April 26, 2002 12:39:08 PM
IP: 67.25.53.102

Stephen > yep, it looks that way though I haven't signed the contract yet. Doesn't pay much -- 20 bucks or contributor copy -- but it's another credit for my resume!

Jan > ouchie, I remember when Becca got that set of 4 shots. One in each limb, poor kid. My sympathies to Zach.

Zombies can now order brains online; ain't the 'Net wonderful? Clickie.
Christine - [<------ brrrraaaaaaiiiiinnnns!]
Friday, April 26, 2002 12:37:26 PM
IP: 67.226.47.73

Depleted Uranium report done. Started at 7pm yesterday, finished at 6am this morning. Two hours of sleep. Work tonight. *sits back to rest before class*

...Oh yeah, and DU sucks muchly. Clicky, or go to
http://www.llrc.org/du/duframes.htm
...Specifically the article entitled "Science on Trial. For those of you questioning the validity, note that this report was submited upon request by the Royal Society. That'd be the British Government, for those of you who came in late. Read it and weep.

Gunjack "Daughter Isotope" Valentine
Friday, April 26, 2002 12:13:38 PM
IP: 192.133.129.4

Yeah, this is a bit of a rant. These have been things on my mind lately when my family keeps pestering about grandchildren, or I'm watching my nephews.

Here’s something to think about. What competes with a child for a parent’s time? What makes it so that we can’t spend 24/7/365 raising our children?

The reality is, you need a job. Let’s look at the various kinds of jobs out there in America right now and how they impact a family:

Salaried Corporate Positions:

These are the ideal for a parent in terms of money provided, benefits, and stability. This is where you might someday be able to provide only the best for your child. If you are a single parent, you can make a decent amount on your own to raise a child.

The problem is, these jobs are the exception in America, not the rule. Competition for these positions is fierce and the demands are very high. You don’t get paid overtime. Graduates from business schools this year take it as a given that any company that signs them as a full employee is going to demand 50 – 60 hours a week out of them at times. Even then, starting salary is pretty poor, and you’ll only get something respectable if you are ready to climb the ladder. On top of that, higher education, networking, and footwork mean that there is a huge amount of time-consumption involved just getting your foot in the door.

Want to balance a career and family in corporate America? Good luck. After criminal behavior, taxes, and legal liabilities, nothing is frowned upon more than the “Mommy Track,” in corporate America. It doesn’t matter if you are a man or a woman, if you intend on spending more time with your kids by taking away from those insane 50-60 hour weeks or those 3 week trips to the other side of the country, you aren’t going to get ahead. Some single person will be willing to come up behind you, jump through those hoops, and put in the extra time. They’ll knock you right off the corporate ladder so fast your head will spin.

So what are your other options? Well, you could get used to 3 hours of sleep a night. You could also let your spouse (if you have one) or other care-provider spend most of the time with your child. Just be ready to be one of those absentie parents you hear about in those angsty 1970’s ballads. Oh, and don’t be surprised if you wind up not having much of a positive influence on your child since you don’t have time for actual parenting.

Of course, then there are Contracted Corporate Positions:

Technically, you are self-employed, but at least you make very good money and get to cut your own hours at times. People won’t keep you 50-60 hours a week because it is expensive. You probably enough money to afford your own benefits for you and your kids. The only problem is that when the economy turns down, you’re the first one out on your rear end, since no one has to pay you unemployment. That’s often not a stable enough environment to balance a family on.

What about Skilled Hourly Laborers:

Well, depending on whether or not you have a Union, you may or may not have a secure job. If you are very good at a highly-skilled Union job like carpentry, masonry, electrical work, or plumbing, you can get by pretty well. The money isn’t fantastic, but you can support your end of a two-income household. Again, if you are single-parenting, you are pretty much up the creek without a paddle.

Unskilled Hourly Laborers:

If you are working as a cashier at Stop and Shop or Walmart, you aren’t in the best position to be raising a family. You may not have a choice. If you are a single parent, you’ll probably be stuck working two jobs. If you are lucky and particularly tenacious, you might be able to land a manager position, or find enough time to extend your education to open up some of the more tenable job positions. Having a second income is almost mandatory.

What it really boils down to is that if you aren’t coming from money, you’re going to have to do a LOT of work to create a stable home to raise a child in. If you have children before you’ve established that stable position, you are going to have to work that much harder. Bread-winning has become increasingly difficult in the past century because gender-equality has wiped out the stereotypes that made a single-income household commonplace. The more work you need to do to create financial stability for your family, the less time you have to spend on parenting.

Child-rearing has become a commerical INDUSTRY in this country as a direct result of businesses expecting to monopolize the time of parents. Even then, the businesses are only following the mareket’s behavior. There are more non-parent workers in the market. They are generally cheaper to hire in terms of benefits, hours for pay, and reliability. If one business doesn’t hire them, the competition will take advantage.

Sure, there are selfish, bad parents out there who simply choose NOT to spend time with their kids. However, most parents who don’t do much parenting are in the situation, not because they choose to ignore their children, but because they believe they have no other alternatives. In some cases, they really don’t have the option. Finding the time to insure your child gets proper parenting in modern America requires either a lot money, a lot of sacrifice, or a lot of support. Not everyone has an exceptional family to help support a child with love and attention when you have to work. Few people are born into enough wealth to be able to ignore career concerns to focus on family. That leaves sacrifice, and without a LOT of preparation before-hand, most people can’t find the time to earn enough money to provide for their child and be there for their child as a parent.

Children are a gigantic responsibility, both as a provider and as a parent. You have to prepare your life for a child or it will be nearly impossible to fill both those roles when the time comes. Anyone who is sexually active should be aware of where babies come from. That kid, planned or not, is a consequence of his or her parents’ actions (both parents, damn it). The parents have got to either step up and take care of your kid, or at least give the child the chance to be adopted by someone who will. If you are going to have a child, or risk having a child, you should be ready for the consequences.

Being a parent isn’t easy. Anyone who told you it was going to be easy lied to your face. Rewarding? Perhaps, but never easy. Daycare, censorship, the government, none of these things can ever, EVER replace the role of family in raising a child. No matter what bill of goods people try to sell you, the village can’t raise your child right, only convince you to be a more lapse parent.

It takes a village full of liars to ruin a parent.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Friday, April 26, 2002 12:12:45 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Okay people, it's this has already degenerated into personal attacks. Which was bound to happen sooner or later. So now I must ask you all to quit it.

Ask? No, I'm flat out telling you. Drop it, stop the personal attacks here and now. And I don't want to hear the "I didn't see your post before submitting mine" excuse later.

Feel free to continue the debate, I may have more to say myself. But no more personal attacks. Take them to e-mail, or better yet, save them as entertainment for my birthday... hmm, no I'll have better things to entertain me for my 21st birthday, so just drop it.
Greg Bishansky
Friday, April 26, 2002 08:45:45 AM
IP: 167.206.248.11

Greetings all...

MOONCAT - Note to Self: Never EVER tick this kitten off. I'd like to keep my personables intact, thank you.

Serious for a moment... I'm staying clear of the child rearing debate/discussion, since I'm still single, never married and have no kids of my own. So what could I possibly bring to the table on this subject?

Anyway...

Been work as usual, though I'm finding it hard to not think in "Crew Person" mode rather than "Manger" mode (my store owner had to remind me of that fact a few times during the shift yesterday). But I'm trying to get it together... Also, had two mini-meetings this week concerning the new crew training program that were starting up. I'm going to be the Training Manager for our store, so I've been working on getting all the 'aces in places' and just preparing for when the actual program starts up. Fun stuff, let me tell ya.

Aside from that, not much else going on in my life... save that I recently got the PC game "Galactic Battlegrounds": the Star Wars take on games like "Starcraft" and "Age of Empires"... Got to admit, it's an interesting mix: more resources, different approaches to the strategies of gather/build/research/attack/defend that you get in RTS games. Plus the addition of having all of the characters from all of the recent Star Wars movies (yep, even the gungans and the Trade Fed goons are in there) is a bit of a bonus.

Also did some book acquiring: got the novelezation of the next Star Wars flick "Attack of The Clones" and the "Spider Man" movie novel... should be some interesting reading, but even with the first chapter of AotC, I'm not liking this R. Salvatore writer... just something about his style that irks me.

CHRISTINE - You sold "Safe Sucks"? Fantastic! Maybe there's hope for "Sin City Walker" yet... and the sequel story I'm working on. ^_^!

As to what Becca said... O_O good grief, but I guess that shouldn't have been too surprising. Her mom's got a way with words, you know. ^_^

PATRICK - Got your email, and yes I agree that I should be posting the info on the AvMists site. Trouble is, they're still doing something with the new server, and haven't gotten back to me to give me my access so I can start modifying the AvMist Site. I've been in touch with the Ops, but still no return on when I'll have that access. So, until then, I have to improvise.

Anyway, I'm off to go in for a long evening shift tonight... work from 11am till 9pm tonight. Ugh. Everyone have a good weekend.

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr. - [ssobotka33616@yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL, USA
Friday, April 26, 2002 08:43:37 AM
IP: 65.35.132.45

Lain -- Congrats on the living situ!

Jan -- As for understanding the frustration of "some people" don't worry, I understand it quite well. What those frustrated people don't understand or haven't noticed I 'got' the points you were trying to make when you made them. I just don't agree with them. Didn't then, and still don't. Media has a influence on society (not just kids) --- yeah? so? Your answer to a better society is to control the media. My answer to a better society is good parenting being the filter between a kid and the media. Of the two, which of us has the better chance at putting their answer into effect? When you've found a way to control the media, and have wiped out neglect and abuse by being a good role model, let me know. In the meanwhile, I'll follow my own answer and be a happy adult who can indulge in things inappropriate for children. Cuz, yay! I'm of legal age and am exercise my choice to so indulge. I hold myself responsible for only my own life, and no one else's, until I have my own kid, and then I'll be responsible for shaping their life. No more, no less.

If that's a dead horse, at least it's a clean kill that I think will benefit me and my future kids more than your bid to control the media will benefit anyone at all.

Josh said " Is there a filter in your head for the words that you type, or do you just let your fingers fly? "

Hey Lain, looks like someone is using the formula in reverse. The personal insult came first this time.

<<Mooncat said "What would the world come to if someone noticed that my post contained it's very own points?">>: then Josh said "As soon as it contains something more than an out-of-place rebuttal to someone else's points, we'll let you know. "

Followed by making fun of the one picked out line. Though he does in this case link my previous posts as rebuttles to someone else's points, as opposed to Jan saying they had nothing to do with the given subject at all. Though one wonders of the use of 'out of place' and 'rebuttle' together. Either it's a rebuttle, and thus is 'in place' or it's unrelated and thus not a rebuttle. But why confuse a good snark with logic, hey?

"As far as I could tell, mooncat's post was a recount of her physical abuse. I didn't attempt to pick that apart. I didn't contest her facts, or anything like that. I don't have a comment about every line of her sob story. "

Followed by trivializing first hand experience with abuse, (an 'off tangent topic' brought up by Jan and Impfac in the first place) and how it relates to the ORIGINAL subject of current entertainment/media and it's sexual/violent content and how that contributes (or doesn't) to degenerate youth and teen sex and the evils of the world in general, and Jan's implication and later direct statements that "most" children of abuse/neglect become criminals. Mmm... yes. Since the first hand account of the subject of abuse contradicts Jan's base statements, it's nothing more than a... 'sob story'.

Josh said "My comment is that she is using it as a counter-argument that has no place simply because she and jan get along about as well as Nazis and Jews."

Oh, yay! A special tie in with being a Nazi (or a Jew, but who wants to place money on which analogy was meant for whom?) -- Which is used to debase the validity of my statements as a counter argument to Jan's statement about abuse = criminal. Yes, Jan said she didn't want to hear about those who had bad childhoods and managed to grow up without being a criminal... after she pretty much said people with bad childhood became criminals. Not 100 percent of course. Just *most*... Yes, I went ahead and mentioned I had a bad childhood, but didn't become a criminal. How out of place of me. Tsk.

Josh said "She left the realm of debating a long time ago."

Says the guy whose idea of debate is to try to tear down the person behind an argument, instead of the argument itself.

Josh said "She makes it up."

Actually, I only speak what I know is true. But nice continuation of going after a person instead of that person's statements.

Josh said "Her idea of debating is taking a comment that you said in passing and blowing it out of proportion as if its focused against her. "

And of course, you'd never say anything focused against me.... *grin*

Jan said "You don’t seem to be able to understand differing points of view"

Then Josh said "Oh I think she understands them, I just don't think she can stay on topic. "

Actually, I was exactly on the topic you guys brought up. Jan and Impfac started throwing in the whole abuse tangent, I followed it with first hand experience and results of. But because it doesn't fit into their neat little argument (read it disagrees with their statements), then obviously it should be ignored, belittled, and buried if possible. Dare to acknowledge contrary data instead of trying to smear the person providing it? That probably would be too much like a real debate, now wouldn't it?

Impfac -- You are such a good person. Such a moral person. You must be, because I've lost count of all the times you have said so. And I really enjoyed the fic you recommended to me by Shard Iceblade. What was that "yummy" scene you were raving on about again? The one where Demona snuffs the twelve year old boy?

Please, tell me again how good and moral you are. I can never hear enough of it.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Friday, April 26, 2002 07:10:11 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

well allo there crowd, howzit hangin?

thats good :)

i might have a PLACE TO LIIIVE!!!! YAAAAAAAY!!!!!
ill find out tomorrow at a little after 1pm, when i go to see the place.
*dances*
egad, no more thoughts of cardboard boxes or living with the campus crusade for christ ministry coordinators *shudder*

jan>> <<Don’t worry, she already has this all down solid>> but honestly, dont we all? ;) <<why I have singled out A&F when many companies use sex to sell.>> heh.. if you want to hear about sex selling.. i once saw a billboard ad for a baby clothing store in france.. it involved a very happy looking babys face, sandwiched between two naked female breasts. they were selling BABY CLOTHING! eesh! <<They consider it a sign of weakness and hesitation on your part. I had never thought of it that way until it was pointed out in the class. It makes sense though, huh? They also stressed that unless you are prepared to use the gun, don’t show it. If you are hesitant, you are more likely to become a victim by your own gun.>> yes, this is very true. i have learned this at many self-defence classes. obviously i dont take GUN defence classes so.. i suppose this means its a good self-defence policy overall :)
..
hey waaaaait just a second there.. did i just.. AGREE with you? GAH! its the FOURTH sign of the apocalypse!!!!
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! ;)

moonkitty>> <<Ooo... How many signs are there supposed to be, by the by?>> 7, i think.. aaaand i believe its already happened but.. shhhh.. lets never mind about that, shall we?)

jim r>> yeah.. and this guy got his doctorate in.. PSYCHOTICS! yeesh.. the guy gives christians a bad name. macs are evil, sure, i bet hes posting from an ibm.. and we aaaaall know about ibm and the nazis, dont we? oh well.. guess were *all* goin ta hell for using the evil that is computers. see ya there!
:P

forbidden shows while in childhood>> most things animated... wasnt allowed to turn on tv on saturday mornings, hence, missed all the classic good stuff. now i am addicted to all things animated.. well.. not pokemon.. or anything-else-mon. that is of the devil.. :P i do however remember watching dallas with my mother. didnt understand a single bit of it at the time but.. oh well.
mostly, i looked up to errol flynn (aka robin hood the great) and that disney fox robyn hood. yes, i used to ride around the neighbourhood on my bike/horse with a handmade bow and arrow and a feather in my hat. this was in the days of kings quest 1 (my favourite game at the time, which was destroyed by a certain friend of mine (michael cavanagh, i know where you live.....) who was my best friend.. till he decided i had cooties in about the first grade. ive still not quite got over that abandonment *sniffleboohoo*
later jeremy brett as sherlock holmes was spiffy in my teenage years.
and thats.. about all i remember of my childhood. except a beach and a train thingy going up a hill when i was three months old.. my dad tells me it was in san fransisco. *shrug*

josh>> <<The art of arguing/debating/whatever is to pick apart your opponent's argument piece by piece. Usually, one piece will do just as nicely/effectively as all of them. As far as I could tell, mooncat's post was a recount of her physical abuse. I didn't attempt to pick that apart. I didn't contest her facts, or anything like that. I don't have a comment about every line of her sob story. My comment is that she is using it as a counter-argument that has no place simply because she and jan get along about as well as Nazis and Jews.>> and i? well.. i was just poking some fun..cos i could... :P why cant you be this logical and civil with ALL of the comments you post in here??? ;)

oh.. and good news :) youll like this one :)
kathy: remember how i said my parents were going to come pick up the furnature from your room? well, theyre coming this weekend, okay?
me: er.. no actually, thats NOT okay, see, cos im still *paying* for that furnature until the 30.
kathy: well, my mother WAS going to bring up a cot for you to sleep on..
me: I am not paying for a cot to sleep on, am i?

later on, i said something about it not being reasonable to ask that i sleep on a *cot* (nevermind that i am paying for a bed) on, you know, the day before my exam. i dont think SHE would find that reasonable at all, if the situation was reversed so.. i dont either. she looked utterly mortified that i hadnt just rolled over.. tee hee. then she wouldnt look at me for the rest of the day. i kept looking at her and smiling and she had this strained look about her. her best friend was there at the time when i said this to her.. so i bet that made it even worse.. BWA HA
then she got a rash and i gave her some polysporin.. so she has to be nice to me again tee hee.
so THERE, josh :D neener!

yggdrasil>> <<American fans booed the Canadian national anthem>> surprise surprise.. <<when you interrupt a countries anthem you are not just insulting the team, the team's country, but also your country with your lack of respect>> yeah.. much as i *love* the americans.. if i caught one of my friends booing during the american national anthem.. theyd get an earful from me, to be sure. wait.. its still the HOCKEY playoffs!? WTF? will hockey never END!? <<in incredibly bad taste given the events in Afghanistan. We
are a country in mourning>> oh, come on now, dont we know the canadians deserved it? us and our.. beavers.. *tch* :P
<> havent had any more yet. last one is on the 30. and i think it will go better :)

ya jeez i gotta go to bed, eh? cos i gotta go see dat hoose tamarrah, eh?
:P

ya, love yall, eh?
....it seems a strange combination of texan and canadian has been seeping out of my brain late at night recently.. i should really get some ointment for that.. :P
lain
the Great White North
Friday, April 26, 2002 03:12:32 AM
IP: 64.228.192.240

Today was mostly uneventful.

Got some grades back, but the big news was getting just above the mean on my transportation engineering midterm and having the structures homework cancelled (saves me about 5 hours). I'll be spending this weekend studying for my midterm on tuesday.

Scary thought of the day: I'm 20 years old, worked odd jobs all my life, haven't even finished a bachelor's degree. And I'm more marketable now, in two different industries, than my mother is in an industry she's been working in for 25 years and has executive experience in. What is the world coming to?

Women in "Men's" jobs: There is only *one* issue here that irks me: Fire Fighters. Recently, there was a massive lawsuit in CA (I think), where a bunch of women sued the state because the strength requirements for being a fire fighter were preventing many women from getting the job. They claimed it was de facto sexism. Now, strength is pretty important for a fire fighter. They have to be able to drag people out of burning buildings, remove furniture from on top of people, etc. Should the state really lower the strength requirements, putting people's lives in danger, just so there can be more women doing it?

Abercrombie & B*tch: B*tch, because all the chicks at my school who wore that were trendy b*tches. Anyway, I'm all for a clothing company using sex to sell its wares. I think its really *weird* to have a clothing ad featuring a model in next to no clothing, but hey, whatever gets people to remember your brand name, right? But I certainly don't think it should be aimed at little kids. That's messed up (even by my standards).

replies.

Oracle: <<Yes, and I think she totally missed the point, yet again>>: She's not interested in the point. She's interested in catfighting against what she feels was a personal attack.

Jim R: <<All Mac users are going to hell!>>: Good, then I won't be alone.

Hyperion: <<Time to abuse the OC-192 connection>>: I hate you. <<Sometimes, life sucks, but realize that it does involve a free trip around the sun>>: Not always. <<The chick I banged last summer won't return my calls>>: ARGH! I hate it when that happens. Fortunately...I have no interest in talking to the chick I banged last summer. <<What to expect from your lover as the summer wears on>>: Sex. More right before they go away to school. <<With you everyday is a good day to die!>>: Where is that from?

Greg X: <>: That's up for debate as well.

Mooncat: <<I'm sure it's a fine way to deal with those pesky contradictions>>: Is there a filter in your head for the words that you type, or do you just let your fingers fly? <<What would the world come to if someone noticed that my post contained it's very own points?>>: As soon as it contains something more than an out-of-place rebuttal to someone else's points, we'll let you know. <<breast beating>>: Hehe, you said "breast". <<the more the sales will jump through the roof>>: I love advertising. I should follow my mother's footsteps into that field.

Lain: <forget about the rest of it because it would be too difficult to wade through>>: The art of arguing/debating/whatever is to pick apart your opponent's argument piece by piece. Usually, one piece will do just as nicely/effectively as all of them. As far as I could tell, mooncat's post was a recount of her physical abuse. I didn't attempt to pick that apart. I didn't contest her facts, or anything like that. I don't have a comment about every line of her sob story. My comment is that she is using it as a counter-argument that has no place simply because she and jan get along about as well as Nazis and Jews.

Warpmind: <<I, too, would rather face an illegal weapon charge (or is that discharge?) that face the underside of a coffin lid>>: Well if you faced the discharge, then you'd face the coffin lid 8-) <>: Doesn't matter.

Ravyn: <<what do you all think about women trying to make it in traditionally male-dominated industries?>>: Any particular industry you had in mind? <<Is it worth it, is it intrusive, is it even *possible?*>>: Its probably possible, but its probably not worth the effort. Fights just don't pay off in the long run. Why not just find a job doing something where there isn't a glass ceiling for women? I wouldn't mind working with women, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to be the only guy in a workplace (unless I was working with supermodels or something).

DPH: <<Change the words out and it's the thoughts that are the problem>>: Then that would be a different statement, wouldn't it?

IMPFAC: <<You can be a little vitriolic when debating>>: She left the realm of debating a long time ago. <<Where the heck do you get this stuff?>>: She makes it up. Her idea of debating is taking a comment that you said in passing and blowing it out of proportion as if its focused against her. <>: Oh, if only everyone in here could make that promise. <<bares fangs>>: Not impressed...I've got better ones 8-)

Christine: <<scalded his vermicelli>>: Ooops! <<"no Barney please" on the baby shower invitations>>: Go you! I'm sure I'd have done the same. <<like penises?>>: LOL! You can tell that story and embarass her in front of all her boyfriends for the rest of her life 8-) <<Safe Sucks>>: Great title! I wish I had time to read more of your stuff.

Jan: <<Don’t worry, she already has this all down solid>>: Don't bother pointing it out to Lain. <<You don’t seem to be able to understand differing points of view>>: Oh I think she understands them, I just don't think she can stay on topic. <<you continue to beat the horse>>: Given your posts of late, this might not be the appropriate metaphor ::looks at bottom of Jan's post:: <<the show does have exceptional qualities and benefits for those who is the targeted audience>>: I agree. However, I think there is just as much value in other shows like Sesame Street. And its a lot less annoying in the house and outside the house. Every time I see a kid singing a barney song I want to pull out a shotgun. When was the last time you heard a kid sing "C is for Cookie"? <<with the exception of the purple teletubbie with the triangle on it’s head and therefore being homosexual, (I’m joking!>>: LOL! This joke is only funny because you're a southern republican 8-) <<but it’s soothing to their ears>>: No wonder parents sound so stupid. <<If it’s in the dictionary, it’s acceptable>>: You'd be surprised at what's in the OED. <<did not believe in TV shows or movies>>: How do you "not believe in" something like TV? I never understood that phrase. It's there. I can touch it. I can throw it at you. You cannot dis-believe the TV and it will disappear. <<He continues being the perfect child>>: Feeding him Nyquil at night, are ya? <<Let’s show them they are not fooling anyone>>: Hey, at least the kids are still *wearing* their clothing 8-) <<there are no reasons why a woman shouldn't be allowed to do a job that has been usually done by only men>>: See fire fighter comment above.

Wilek: Long time no see. We do miss your posts in here, but do me a favor and don't post between May 16 and 24, k? I'll never study for finals if I have to reply to you ;-)

Gside: <<We only have his word on that>>: Like I said, it really depends on which women you talk to. <<And yours, too>>: No. <<Then what do you say?>>: I say ask chicks. <<Just that one of them doesn't have to fit, just be busy with the outside>>: True, true. <<I've known her longer. And I'm not scrawny>>; Yeah but she already thinks I'm cute. <<Because it was in a flash video>>: Ah, the flawless justification. <<Kills kittens randomly?>>: With radiation 8-) <<I'll refuse to believe they exst, probably even after I've seen proof>>: Women or male-dominated industries?

Okay ugly people, I'm going to sleep. 30 more days.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go home and have a heart attack.
-Vincent Vega (John Travolta), "Pulp Fiction"

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Friday, April 26, 2002 02:29:56 AM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Gavin> <<Why Jay of course>>: We only have his word on that.

Imzadi> <<In your dreams>>: And yours, too.
<<Depends on who you ask>>: Then what do you say?
<<What does that have to do with fitting?>>: Just that one of them doesn't have to fit, just be busy with the outside.
<>: I've known her longer. And I'm not scrawny.
<<Why must gonads always be followed by strife?>>: Because it was in a flash video.
<<Sorry, I'm busy>>: How about the orgy after?

Warpmind> <<a kind of Schroedinger's Artifact>>: Kills kittens randomly? But I do that already.
<<As for having sex with imaginary characters - it's easier than you might think>>: Depends on what kind of sex, I take it?

Ravyn> <<what do you all think about women trying to make it in traditionally male-dominated industries?>>: I don't. I'll refuse to believe they exst, probably even after I've seen proof. Mostly joking.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Friday, April 26, 2002 12:57:41 AM
IP: 198.151.130.133

Ironically, all the outrage and breast beating over the A&F Naughty and Nice catalog will only increase it's popularity. The more 'concerned' parents scream, rant, and rave that it's soft core porn, the more the sales will jump through the roof. A&F say it's after the college crowd market. Guess who is giving it to them on a silver platter?

hmmm...

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Friday, April 26, 2002 12:43:38 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Dear Abercrombie & Fitch:
Do you cut out your tongues to make your food taste better?
Is it a common practice among you to cure headaches by
driving pickaxes into your crania?
Are you in the habit of expressing your love for a painting
by setting fire to it?
No?
Then put some clothes on your clothing models.

Wilek
Friday, April 26, 2002 12:06:16 AM
IP: 65.172.225.135

sorry for the second post tonight....

Hyperion> I heard about that on the news tonight and thought about it being a ironic since we've been talking about this in here! I saw some of the edited versions of the models and pictures... eesh.
I also heard that Lieutenant Governor of IL, Corinne Wood is involved in a boycott of AandF. She has said, "I am often asked why I have singled out A&F when many companies use sex to sell. Well, A&F's biggest market is still young teens and pre-teens. Visit a middle school and you will see the A&F logo on plenty of T-shirts and sweatshirts. The retailer’s excuse that it is targeting more mature college students is clearly, in the words of that generation, “lame.” Let’s show them they are not fooling anyone.

As the mother of three young teen-agers, I recognize that my husband and I are ultimately responsible for the choices our children make. But, we do have the right to demand that the corporate community work with us, not against us as we attempt to keep our kids active in a healthy lifestyle."

This is basically what I've been talking about all along.

Rayvn> Yes, women should always be willing to blaze new trails into the "man's world" of chosen careers and employment. Sure, there will be some limitations for most women - but overall there is no justification for a woman making less money than a man for doing the same job and there are no reasons why a woman shouldn't be allowed to do a job that has been usually done by only men. If she can do the job, then she should have that opportunity.
Yes, there could be hardships or prejudices against women and in some areas of profession, it may be considerably difficult for a woman to be accepted. But, that's how the trail is begun - by those brave enough to begin them :)
Jan
Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:14:46 PM
IP: 12.110.236.249

<Christine wrote a Scooby-Doo fanfic....>

The one where Shaggy has a "food fettish" and adds his own "special sauce" to his sandwitch, and Daphnie gives Scooby a "special" snatc... i mean snack? ;-)

I don't think that's any more twisted than the stuff that comes out of Trey Parker's strange little mind.

It hasn't changed my view of Scooby any more than the Adult Garg Fanfic has changed how I look at Gargoyles.

---------------------------------
Anyway, I forgot what I was originally going to say, so I'll post again later.
Leo
Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:34:54 PM
IP: 172.148.110.138

You'll have to excuse me, I just have to share this. Granted it comes from the Wall Street Journal but still...
(today, if anyone cares, in the editorials section)
Apperently the new Abercrombie and Fitch catalogue, based on the store all the 13-year-olds hang out at, will require ID if you want to purchase it. According to the editorial, it "looks more than a 300 page softcore mag" including, "semi-clad and nude models, some even undressing each other" Best quote: "For a clothing catalogue, it's models spend a lot of time in the buff"
According to A&F it's not selling clothes, but "promotiong a lifestyle" Its Q&A section has helpful answers to questions like "The chick I banged last summer won't return my calls" and relationship advice like "What to expect from your lover as the summer wears on"
Now, far be it for me to sit over here and wave the Puritannical flag, but I just thought that was interesting given our current debate on morals in society.

IMPFAC> You're on. Heck, I'll even start:
For the Israelies to condemn Palistine for terrorist activites is utter hypocracy. Israel was founded only after the Jews started bombing locations in England. Furthermore, Palistine is fighting an encroaching enemy in the only way it can. It has no armed forces or infrastructure, so it's using it only resource, it's people, as a means of engaging in warfare. Don't forget Israel essentally has the Palistinians in concentration ("refugee") camps, has sytematically destroyed their infrastructre and continues to encroach on their terratory ("settlements") This is akin to one of your neighbors suddenly setting up shop in your front yard and fighting back if you tried to get them the hell off.
Far from terrorist attacks, the Palistinians are simply fighting a resistance much like the people of Europe did during WWII.

That should get things started, I look foward to your response.
Also, sorry about the spelling, once again on a computer with no spell checker.

****************************
"today is a good day to die!"
"Oh, shut up. With you everyday is a good day to die!"
Hyperion - [hyperion@justice.com]
Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:18:05 PM
IP: 207.29.196.162

Lain> <<you should know the routine by know, its like the cr ritual. they pick the stuff in your post that they can make the most fun of, respond to that, and forget about the rest of it because it would be too difficult to wade through. then, if that doesnt work, they start with the personal insults.>> Don’t worry, she already has this all down solid.

MC> <<I'm glad people are focusing on how I did not get "Jan's point".>> That’s because it never fails – you refuse to even acknowledge or stick to the subject. You totally and absolutely miss each point that I make.
<< What would the world come to if someone noticed that my post contained it's very own points?>> I don’t know – maybe, just maybe if for once you would stop and consider what someone else is actually saying that is contradictory to what you think, then maybe some of us would pay more attention to what you have to say. It’s not that you have an opposing point of view – it’s that you go way off of the subject or point that is being made by someone else and then come up with some off the wall rebuttal or you’ve picked one small part of the subject and run in a completely different direction with it. You don’t seem to be able to understand differing points of view.
It’s like the “I’m not responsible for raising someone else’s child” that you have continuously said. How many times must everyone agree with you before you get it? We’ve all said that we agree with that – no one should be responsible for raising someone else’s child (feeding, clothing, nurturing, etc.) What some of us have been saying (but once again you don’t even acknowledge) is that as a society of humans, we should be the appropriate examples for children – ALL children. It comes with the territory and responsibility of being an adult. All you’ve done is carry on and on about not being responsible for raising others’ children. That’s NOT what we’ve been saying. You have not even addressed the topic of being good examples for children… instead, you continue to beat the horse of raising the children.
It’s the same with the media industry. NO ONE said that they were totally at fault and that they cause kids/people to go out and murder, rape, and violate others. What we have said was that it is a contributing factor because of the influence that the media has over people. Contributing as in a piece of the whole picture – not the WHOLE picture or single factor. Media influences. You have not even discussed that (that I can remember). Instead, you once again beat the horse of “media does not cause crime”. On and on and on about it… totally missing the point of the influence that the media plays in society.
How many times did you beat the horse of “parents are responsible for monitoring…” ? Who disagreed with you? No one that I can think of. When it was pointed out, from more than one person, that yes, parents have the ultimate responsibility of monitoring their children but they cannot be with their child 24/7/365 – you didn’t address that. Instead, you continued on and on about it was the parents’ responsibility of monitoring… even though it was shown that it’s impossible for a parent to be the ONLY influence in their child’s life.
You missed the point of it's a common factor among criminals that MOST of them had a neglectful or abusive childhood. No, it had nothing to do with a convenient disclaimer for anyone who wants to contradict me. I was speaking of the MAJORITY of abused children turning to a life of crime. It had nothing to do with how you or anyone else turned out ok because you are in the minority.
I’m truly sorry that you had a rough childhood. I had one too – but I’ve overcome it. My father and his brothers had a tragic childhood of abuse, neglect, abandonment, and near starvation but yet each of them became very successful in life with 2 out of 5 becoming multi-millionaires and the other 3 being very financially healthy. They all say that they became successful in SPITE of their childhood and their abusive mother. But once again, they are the exception, not the majority of what becomes of children who are abused.

<<Anyone (generally speaking) who want's to try and lay child abuse on my doorstep because I don't intend to raise other people's children can go screw themselves.>>
Who has laid this at your doorstep? Is that what was said? Nope. You have totally twisted what I have said and turned it to justify your comments and feelings. (as usual) You want to be cold-hearted and self-centered? Fine, go for it. Be all that you can be. At least there ARE people in this society that do care about children and care enough to be a good example for them. No one has ever said anything about you taking these children as your very own or you being responsible because they’ve been abused. But what has been said that we, as a society can strive to be better examples for those who have been abused and need someone to look up to and to see how “good” people are. It is the ones who choose to act inappropriately that are responsible for contributing to the decay and downfall of society. I guess if you feel as if you fall into that category, then yeah – you are a contributing factor. But, no one here has said or accused you of doing that or being like that.

I’m in no way attempting to flame you or am I angry about anything. I’ve attempted to explain why some people are frustrated that you don’t ever seem to get the “points” that are being made. I have agreed with a lot of the things you have said – but they were also way off the mark of what was being discussed. You’ve sometimes acted as if you’ve been accused of something, when in fact, you have not been.
I really hope that you do not misunderstand what I’ve tried to say here. There was no maliciousness intended on my part.

Warpmind> <<'Course, I *do* prefer giving "fair warning" first, loud and clear... and calmly. You'd be amazed at how many reconsider when you do that..>> actually, when I went thru my handgun training the officers all said that is the first mistake a person makes. The criminals will not hesitate to shoot first - while most “nice” people will warn first. It’s during that time you are the most vulnerable and the criminal will attack. They consider it a sign of weakness and hesitation on your part. I had never thought of it that way until it was pointed out in the class. It makes sense though, huh? They also stressed that unless you are prepared to use the gun, don’t show it. If you are hesitant, you are more likely to become a victim by your own gun.
Missouri is in the process of debating the “concealed weapon law”. Of course, most of the law enforcement people are against it, but myself coming from Texas – it’s not that big of an issue and I am more or less support of it.

Barney shows: Even though we, as adults, are repulsed by his behavior and the fact that he’s a large purple dinosaur, the show does have exceptional qualities and benefits for those who is the targeted audience. In my last year of in the classroom, I was forced to watch Barney on occasions (I had never seen it before) and was impressed at what the “message” of each episode was. Each episode had a good message of how to get along with others, play fair, etc. Plus it shows learning skills such as shapes, colors, numbers, and so on. Very good stuff for the toddlers and youngin’s. ;) I know, I know… I’m expecting the rotten tomatoes to be thrown at me now. *chuckles*
Teletubbies: with the exception of the purple teletubbie with the triangle on it’s head and therefore being homosexual, (I’m joking!)… It’s geared to the toddlers and they seem to really enjoy it. It’s slow paced so that their little minds can comprehend and process what is going on, it’s colorful, and the gibberish is what the kiddies understand… not literally, but it’s soothing to their ears. Personally, it got on my nerves big time when we’d show it – but the kids loved it. (Even though they were all 8-12 years old, they had the mentality of toddlers)

Josh> I have heard the word strategical used many times and not just by those family members who are in the military or retired from. ;) If it’s in the dictionary, it’s acceptable. President Bush used the word, “strategery”… *L* A Bushism ;)
<<Who's the idiot?>> *LOL!* No way am I going there! ;p I’m trying to be nice!!

Christine> *LOL* ex cooking pasta in the nude… Personally, I’ve never been interested in cooking in the nude nor eating food from anyone who is nude and cooking. Heh

Forbidden shows while in childhood: most of them. My father was a Pentecostal preacher and for a while did not believe in TV shows or movies. He later realized how stupid that was and we bought our first TV. ( a black and white) Television was heavily monitored and movies were still not allowed until I was in my early teens. I do remember watching Laugh In and it causing some friction between my parents. Mom ok’d it and dad would leave the room. I faintly remember watching Ed Sullivan on occasion but fondly remember watching Red Skelton. As I grew older, more TV was allowed and I spent my adolescent years dreaming of marrying Danny Partridge and becoming a singing member of the Partridge family ;) It wasn’t until the classic reruns did I see The Andy Griffith Show, Bewitched, Hazel, and My Mother the Car.
Oh yeah, I was a big fan (and still am) of the 3 Stooges. =) I even met them once!
My own children were not allowed to watch the Simpson’s during their early years and movies with a lot of violence, crude language and sexual themes were not permitted. Music and music bands were also monitored… as much as I could. Even though it was not allowed, that didn’t always keep them from the “forbidden fruit”.

Zach received his first 4 shots of the series yesterday… poor little fella. =( He’s continued having a fever, but overall is going fairly well. He is now up to 11 lbs and 8 oz : ) He continues being the perfect child. ;) The doctor complimented Anna on being a very good mom – said Zach was extremely happy and healthy.

Update on the horses: a total of 6 dead. Two in the barn, two in the ditch and two in the field. The colt that was in the barn with the 2 dead horses was near death and they are not sure it’s going to survive. It was confined in a pen inside the barn with no food, no water, a muddy floor, no light, and all within a few feet of the dead, maggot infested horses. To add insult to injury – the only thing that the owner can be charged with is a misdemeanor of animal neglect and abuse. He will be fined a small amount. Sometimes the laws really suck.
Jan
Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:02:26 PM
IP: 12.110.236.249

Well, from what I've been able to gather, Christine wrote a Scooby-Doo fanfic that she now really regrets ever having written, and so that would be her reason for her desire to avoid anything to do with the cartoon.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, April 25, 2002 09:45:24 PM
IP: 168.191.109.226

Christine: <<<... no Scooby Doo for obvious personal reasons...>>>

Huh?
impfac - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Thursday, April 25, 2002 09:32:07 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Josh > everything I ever needed to know about cooking naked, I learned from observing my ex, who was boiling pasta in the nude and scalded his vermicelli.

Spike > congratulations! That's great news and a great pic.

Revel > LOL, it's not just you; when doing the revision I noticed the unintentional resemblance (physical and personality-wise) between Lionnen and another sorceress of my acquaintance, and decided to have some fun with it. A little in-joke that only a few folks would understand.

Warpmind > okay; the deadline isn't until May 3, so send it whenever you get the chance.

Forbidden television > we put "no Barney please" on the baby shower invitations before Becca was even born ... tried Teletubbies once and we both deemed it too weird ... no Scooby Doo for obvious personal reasons ... we discourage various cartoons like Grim & Evil, Courage the Cowardly Dog, and other ucky-creepy stuff of the Ren & Stimpy school of animation. Becca and I had an interesting conversation one day while watching Who's Line Is It Anyway, when the "not recommended for viewers under 13" blurb came on. Becca turned to me, worried, and said she was under 13. I told her that was on there because some of the jokes were about things that kids might not understand. She replied, "You mean like penises?" I inhaled soda and, coughing, trying not to laugh, said, "Yeah, like that." She just said, "Oh, okay," and we went back to watching.

Story news > I may have sold my genre-bending humorous erotic vampires-in-space tale, "Safe Sucks," to a naughty anthology! Details pending.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, April 25, 2002 09:17:00 PM
IP: 67.226.47.143

MC> <<<This is all probably TMI, but frankly, I don't give f*ck. Anyone (generally speaking) who want's to try and lay child abuse on my doorstep because I don't intend to raise other people's children can go screw themselves.>>>
and....
<<<So sorry to be one of the people who is part of the "not a 100%" and daring to mention it. I see the disclaimer 'oh I don't mean 100%' as something any can use with just about anything that contains contrary evidence. I'm glad people are focusing on how I did not get "Jan's point". What would the world come to if someone noticed that my post contained it's very own points?>>>

Whoa! Okay, first of all, remain calm. You can be a little vitriolic when debating.

Second, when did anyone here blame you for child abuse? No one is saying that. We’re not saying anything is you’re fault. However, unless you want to live in a hermetically sealed bubble, accept that you are a member of SOCIETY. *Good* members *try* to make the world a better place, be nice, watch out for others, etc. Good members don’t seal themselves inside and say if screw everyone that isn’t me or my kid. I don’t that that is personal responsibility-I think that is selfishness. Society has confused the two.

This attitude, which you and GB appear to share, is very selfish and cruel-I don’t know why you’re both seemingly so proud of it. But I guess we’re all a product of our society (like it or not), and what our society values is increasingly vapid and selfish. I’ve always been proud not to buy into our mass produced morality, but I see that far to many have.

Also, just because you say you got beaten as a child doesn’t prove anything, and I don’t view it as a valid reason to ignore other children being abused now, or to deny a correlation between media and violence.

We have very different world views. I feel compelled by my personal moral set to help others where I can. My Judeo-Christian (sp?) values, something we don‘t share, as well as the wonderful example my parents always have been to me, lead me to view myself as a member of society and thus not the most important thing in the universe.

I believe in doing for others, not just doing what is best for me. I try, for no reason other than it is right, to help my community. And no, I don’t bear much respect for people that refused to accept any social responsibility nor care about anything beyond themselves.

Also, stop saying that we’re directly correlating crime, sex, STD’s, and violence with entertainment directly. We’re NOT. All we are saying is that the media has become far more intense, increasingly inappropriate, and that it is harmful to children to be exposed to such extreme material.

How harmful? You say it isn’t at all. I respect that, but I don’t agree.

I think the level of harm such media causes to children is correlated to the parents in the home. If there is a lax or totally absent parental structure, than children will be far more influenced, likely lacking a strong sense of right and wrong. But even good parents cannot protect their children from the massive piles of dung the media heaps upon the young ones.

I think the media should stop pandering to children’s basest instincts, which they’re not mature enough to have mastery of.

Finally, stop acting like we’re out to cover up every midriff, ruin every show, destroy every movie. Where the heck do you get this stuff??? We’re just saying the media is increasingly vile-no one, that I have noticed (perhaps you’ve noticed something in our posts we missed?) is advocating the kind of censorship you seem to think.

Hopefully this conversation can remain calm.

Hyperion: <<<I would not mind discussing the Israel / Palestine situation but only, *ONLY* if it's kept civil. If you can't discuss this rationally, the please, don't, so the rest of us that can don't have to get embroiled in a flame war again.>>>

YOU ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU’RE A JERK!!!!

Hehe, just kidding, of course *~_^* I actually walked away from my real life debate with a smile. They’re weren’t as amused, but I’m always careful in real life to keep debates away from the personal, something the internet taught me nicely. Wanna debate? I’d be happy to-and I promise not to call you a terrorist! *~_^*

I’ll be good, I promise (exception: if you say something REALLY stupid, hehe)

GB: <<>> Hey, I’m WAY more evil than you! Ask my boyfriend!!! *bares fangs* But my evil is on a grand level; I’m actually a very compassionate, kind guy in person. You and MC are proud to be selfish: I try not to be selfish. I guess we’ve all grown up with different world views.

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Thursday, April 25, 2002 08:26:13 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

GXB - Visit http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2002/03-30-2002.html and http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2002/04-06-2002.html for my last comments on the need for morals.

GXB - Words don't matter? I had a miserable time in public schools because of kids picking on me for my intelligence level. Change the words out and it's the thoughts that are the problem.

Daphne - interesting information.

Winterwolf - <Cheers on your back pain subsiding to tolerable levels. Is there anything that could be done to permanently correct your back problems and remove the pain? Do you just need to keep up with your back exercises to be okay?> My visits to the chiropractor office are helping with reducing the amount of pain by keeping my back straight. Exercising my back muscles helps the adjustments last longer.

Imzadi - "gg" stood for "Good Game". There's also "sn" for "same name" if you are on a ladder system.
DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, April 25, 2002 07:44:12 PM
IP: 204.94.193.17

Lain - Yes, I'd noticed the pattern you mention. Ah... the third sign of the Apocolypse? (sp?) Ooo... How many signs are there supposed to be, by the by? I wonder if I need to start making an 'end of the world' top ten count down *^_^* -- just in case.

Raven <<Just a question now ... what do you all think about women trying to make it in traditionally male-dominated industries? Is it worth it, is it intrusive, is it even
*possible?* I'm curious on your thoughts ... ;) >>

Never really thought about it all that much. I guess if a woman is qualified for the job and has the ambition, go for it. Is it worth it? If a woman who has to fight for it, I think that question is pretty much answered when she makes the attempt. Is it intrusive? Well it has to be intrusive to someone, otherwise it wouldn't be a big deal if a woman got into the field/industry. Is it possible? Why wouldn't it be possible? Unless the job requires some component that is uniquely male to complete, like siring babies, a woman can pretty much do what a man can do in a business or professional situation.

If a man or woman can do the job, and wants the job, I don't see any reason why he or she should go after the job, no matter what the job's traditional gender happens to be.

***
Well, today has been oogie. No new stove until Sat, and wasted the afternoon waiting for the delivery truck. It's cold, my floppy drive is spazzing just when I need it, my camera battery died and I need to take more pictures, (I'm placing kittens and cats) -- So I'm going to go have a nice hot supper out (been eating cold or microwaved food for the past week) and try to shake the chill from my bones.

later
MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Thursday, April 25, 2002 06:37:03 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Just wanted to say that it's both interesting and disheartening to see some of the comments about child-rearing. Although this seems to be a good conversation ... we're actually talking and not flaming (yet)! :) The entire *idea* of children scares me to tears right now anyway, so forgive me for not saying much on the topic, and for my inexperience on this one.

Greg> I hope you have a cool badass son, not an evil son. There is a difference. ;) And I'd recommend Damien out of those two names, if I had to choose one ... Lucifer could get him called "Lucy" around the guys.

Mooncat> <<Terror can make you act extremely proper, when you are doing your very best not to upset a crazy person who quite literally has power of life and death over you.>> **nods** I most definitely agree. <<the system can do very little to protect a child from an ongoing abusive home situation>> So true ... especially in cases where the parents are the more respected in the community than the kids, and who are you gonna believe? Besides, I've seen it happen where spoiled brat kids call up Child Protective Services and say they're being abused, when really they've had *nothing* happen to them, they're just trying to "get back at their parents" for whatever reason. <<even while being badly abused, a lot of kids will go out of their way to be as "normal" as possible rather than have the world know what the hell is going on>> So, so so so SO TRUE. Believe me, I know. <<Here is my world view>> No offense, but I don't agree with your opinions sometimes ... except for *right now.* I completely agree with your world view. We need to take responsibility for ourselves. That's a big problem out there. <<Entertainment is also considered escapism. And there are few who need escape as badly as an abused or neglected child.>> Darn right. Entertainment is a savior to me. It's kept me as sane as I am right now ... ;)

Just a question now ... what do you all think about women trying to make it in traditionally male-dominated industries? Is it worth it, is it intrusive, is it even *possible?* I'm curious on your thoughts ... ;)
Ravyn
Thursday, April 25, 2002 05:40:18 PM
IP: 150.135.180.226

*Warpmind wanders in, looking somewhat... unsettling. After a few moments, it becomes evident why: the shiny Illuminati ring on his right middle finger.*
Hi, gang. Got my Illuminati ring, and it's oooooh so shiny. :) (Plate from the Illuminati pin, set onto a silver ring. It works.)
Oh, and sorry for being gone so long...

Spacebabie: No, I'm not a weeble. Why?

Jan: Well, the laws probably vary vastly from state to state to good ol' lard@$$ed Norway, where only outlaws have guns. (Well, and law enforcement officials, if they have been to get the prerequisite permit for using firearms first... Yes, it's sad, I know...) And I agree; I, too, would rather face an illegal weapon charge (or is that discharge?) that face the underside of a coffin lid... :p ('Course, I *do* prefer giving "fair warning" first, loud and clear... and calmly. You'd be amazed at how many reconsider when you do that...)

Christine: There may be one more item if I get it typed up in time. This one, a kind of Schroedinger's Artifact. }:)

Gside: Riff thought quickly about his chicks, yeah. To quote Torg, he was poultry in motion. }:) As for having sex with imaginary characters - it's easier than you might think.

Josh: We didn't need what image, you say? After all, I never specified *whose* saliva. };)

For the rest of the week, by a rough skimming, I think I shall just stay out of the debates. Anything I had to say has, by the looks of it, already been said. On all topics... õõ

'Sides, for some bizarre reason, my mother is now hanging over my shoulder asking to check her e-mail. :( Naggin' dragon... *Fades*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norwau
Thursday, April 25, 2002 05:30:41 PM
IP: 193.217.205.111

Hi to all.
Someone to day told me that rapeing was funny. And he said that we women was nothing but fools for falling for men. Are
all men like this and think am only 14 years old.

Anonymous
Thursday, April 25, 2002 05:16:18 PM
IP: 64.12.106.46

*Site Update*

Added a new story to my series and it is in the fan fic archive. It's the last one for this arc or season, however you want to look at it. So go read and if nothing else go look at the Pic I made of my favorite TGS character, yep, good ol Zed.

*End Self-Promotion*
Revel - [<<---------Click!!]
denton, tx
Thursday, April 25, 2002 03:46:33 PM
IP: 129.120.230.108

You guys need to do like some maps and blueprints or something to give us a better picture as to how stuff looks.

Paul BlackCrow - [warlock@planetc.com]
Thursday, April 25, 2002 03:15:16 PM
IP: 65.160.110.34

mooncat>> <<What would the world come to if someone noticed that my post contained it's very own points?>> egad, mooncat.. youd better not wish for something like that.. it would be.. like.. the third sign of the apocalypse.. or something..

you should know the routine by know, its like the cr ritual. they pick the stuff in your post that they can make the most fun of, respond to that, and forget about the rest of it because it would be too difficult to wade through. then, if that doesnt work, they start with the personal insults.

oracle>> hello there, nice to see you. might be nicer if you actually had something useful to contribute out of the blue, rather than straight regurgitation but.. whatever.. ;)
lain "catfight!" iwakura
Thursday, April 25, 2002 01:36:49 PM
IP: 64.228.193.52

Josh n Oracle --

Frankly, I don't care if certain people don't want to hear about the people who did grow up with abuse who *didn't* become a raving criminal. So sorry to be one of the people who is part of the "not a 100%" and daring to mention it.

I see the disclaimer 'oh I don't mean 100%' as something any can use with just about anything that contains contrary evidence. I'm sure it's a fine way to deal with those pesky contradictions.

I'm glad people are focusing on how I did not get "Jan's point". What would the world come to if someone noticed that my post contained it's very own points?

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:32:49 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Ack, ignore the last message. My computer always remembers what was written in the Name box, and a while back the three of us made a post, and the computer remembered it. And while scrolling down to my name, it messed up and sent the post with those three names.

Now on to business.

I was really just kidding around about the whole letting my kid curse thing to his teacher thing. Just wanted to get a reaction out of the more uptight crowd... I know, I'm a bastard. When are people going to learn, that I say a lot of things for shock value?

I think kid's cursing is no big deal. They're just words. But the problem is too many other people out there think it is, oh well, he'll be able to curse in the house.. Yeah, young Lucifer (or Damien. Haven't decided yet) will be taught to be polite, but only because he'll need it to get anywhere. I want him to grow up to be powerful and ruthless. I want him to be the Antichrist, or for his own kid to be the Antichrist. I don't care, as long as I get a really evil son.

JAN> <<you keep saying that you don't care - that's really a sad statement, even coming from you>> Well, why should I care? Not my problem. It's not my responsibility to raise anyone else's kid. As for being a good example for them, I think I'm already that.

IMPFAC> <<Well, that is basically what is wrong with society.>> No it's not. <<Everyone is OBSESSED with what feels good, and what they can do for themselves-but helping, even not harming, others?>> Not my responsibility. I have a responsibility to myself, and my commitments, and never, not once did I commit to raising someone else's child. <<There is no interest. I guess I grew up with the wrong morals-I actually care about others>> So do I, my friends, some family. Not a bunch of strangers though. <> Good for you. <<What do you do?>> Well, I don't do anything like that. <<People shouldn’t be so terrible selfish all the time.>> Works for me. <<We’ve LOST our sense of community, and that is sad.>> Hey, some people I don't want to be in a communitee with. Most people actually. <<We’re all in this together, people.>> Nope. Let me tell you something, I consider myself to be evil. Someone calls me evil, I wear it as a badge of honor. I am selfish, self-centered, and have ambitions of true power. Is that so wrong? Well, yes it is, but I don't really give a sh-t.

JOSH> <<Plus, I fail to see how showing the *results* of violence is a problem.>> I didn't say it was. <<So he can get expelled and never get into college? Good plan.>> Nah, I just want an evil badass son. <<Because you're their parent and you're supposed to be looking out for them.>> I watched a lot of the so-called "inappropriate" stuff as a kid, and while it may be a stretch to say I turned out fine, I sure as Hell did not turn out badly. <<We are so f*cked.>> *Laughs maniacally* <<Seasame Street is a good thing. It educates without having stupid catchy songs that you have to hear your kid singing>> As far as music goes, my kids will be brought up listening to bands like Nirvana, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Dream Theater, Incubus (they're older stuff), etc. So there will always be good music in my house.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:32:49 AM
IP: 216.179.6.186

Ah at work with nothing to do except wait for people to call me back. Time to abuse the OC-192 connection.
Oddly enough, the actual CR is not blocked by the ratings check, only the page on TGS that links to it. Funny, I never thought that a bunch of links to different parts of TGS was all that insulting or profane.

Hmm...not alot here to say. Since the vast majority of people are talking about rug-rat rearing and since I cannot stand the little homunculi, I really have nothing to add except this:
It's not society's place to help you raise your kid, however, society mush at least be aware of the messages it sends simply because it will be society that must bear the cost if the child matures into a non-productive member (i.e. Criminal, career welfare recipient, etc.) This is not to abdicate the responsibility of the parents, but if society decided to promote a behavior (say drug use) and there are no laws against it (say legalize...oh...pot), and such a behavior is actively promoted, then is it any surprise that the parents a fighting against overwhelming odds, and that some people embrace those behaviors.
For a better example, look at pre-marital sex. Not illegal and society (through the media, mostly, but also books, and even schools) seems to be promoting it.
This is not to say that no one ever had sex before marriage ever before the mid 80's, but in how many other eras has it been so widely publicized and given a luster of being fun and carefree.<shrug> maybe plenty, I’m no expert. But I’m pretty sure that the reason there were so many marriages before WW2 was so that the couple could get some nookie before they were separated, perhaps forever.
Mind you, I certainly think sex is fun, and engage in it whenever possible, but I don’t think it's carefree, risk free or responsibility free. As it stands, I embrace hedonism and sensuality which really keeps life interesting.

IMPFAC's comments> No point in arguing when you agree. I would not mind discussing the Israel / Palestine situation but only, *ONLY* if it's kept civil. If you can't discuss this rationally, the please, don't, so the rest of us that can don't have to get embroiled in a flame war again.

***************************
Sometimes, life sucks, but realize that it does involve a free trip around the sun.

Hyperion - [hyperion@justice.com]
Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:28:23 AM
IP: 155.94.62.252

...
Greg Bishansky, Lynati, Revel
Thursday, April 25, 2002 09:59:58 AM
IP: 216.179.6.186

Oh no! All Mac users are going to hell! Click my name and scroll down. Something interesting to laugh at.
Jim R.
Thursday, April 25, 2002 09:35:33 AM
IP: 65.173.70.35

Josh> <>: Did you entirely miss Jan's point about it not applying to 100% of people? > Yes, and I think she totally missed the point, yet again.
Oracle
Thursday, April 25, 2002 08:04:24 AM
IP: 24.167.240.110

Went to this presentation about OS X on the desktop by the same two guys who did the Q&A session during my trip to Apple. It was interesting, learned a bit about the history of BSD, but nothing new about OS X. I know all the standard marketing crap by now.

According to my TA, the new structures lab is "so easy its insulting". I like that.

replies

Mooncat: <<pop in your Gargoyles tapes (unless too inappropriate>>: Gargoyles is not appropriate for little kids. <<force our women to cover from head to to or be stoned to death?>>: Society would become so boring I'd have to kill myself. <<Bewitched. I Dream of Jeanie>>: Hey now, those are pretty suggestive! <<except for AIDS which didn't come from the entertainment industry>>: Or maybe... <<My dad started me at 7 years old with 3 dollars a week>>: I wish I was making that much at age 7! <<my dream was to grow up and become Catwoman>>: That explains a lot. <<She did things to me that pretty much count as torture>>: I'm sorry to hear about this. I really am. <>: Did you entirely miss Jan's point about it not applying to 100% of people?

Lain: <<right here, sick em, boy!>>: LOL! I wish we had that ad here. Too bad they don't sell a lot of canadian beer here...its vastly superior to the crap made in the US. <>: Thank you for not paying attention. That was in reference to holding a baby. Having a baby is unacceptable in many social circles if you are an unmarried woman. Next time you want to poke holes in my argument, make sure you're paying attention to what I'm talking about. <<you know, the kind that teaches you be to be horridly naive, simple-minded, and completely unaware of the way things *really* are in the world around you>>: But more importantly, the one that doesn't require any work to graduated.

Gunjack: <<maybe THIS is your ratinale for always makin me do the dishes>>: Better not ask her once, or she'll get all feminazi on you. <<you just didn't wanna blow the gig>>: I don't wanna know.

Winterwolf: <<What's a social life? It's odd to think how most of my friends are about 3000 miles away>>: I resent that remark ;-)

Kathy: <>: You'll love this one then: I wasn't allowed to watch GI Joe or any other cartoons/shows that were big on violence/guns/war. But my parents took me to see Die Hard 2 in the theatres...I was 9. <<if some parent thinks it's adorable that their little precious wears hip huggers at age 4>>: Then they're a sick pedophile.

Greg X: <<You mean the Hitler Channel. Yeah, that's "kid friendly">>: First of all, its the WWII channel ;-) Second, that's a historical review. History rarely shows any of the gruesome stuff during hours when kids are around. In fact, most of the shows that are on between 3PM and 9PM are things like "World's Biggest Buildings" or "Top Ten Engineering Marvels" or "History of the B-17" or my personal favorite, "The Great Automotive Quiz". The gruesome stuff, like holocaust victims, etc, is reserved for later on or earlier in the day. Plus, I fail to see how showing the *results* of violence is a problem. <>: So he can get expelled and never get into college? Good plan. <<Why should I have to give up watching the trash that I do over some stupid children>>: Because you're their parent and you're supposed to be looking out for them. <>: We are so f*cked. <<You want to know what I won't allow in my house? Mary Poppins, Barney, Sesame Street, and all that other crap>>: Seasame Street is a good thing. It educates without having stupid catchy songs that you have to hear your kid singing 8-)

Spike: <>: That's interesting. My parents had no problems with me watching Bond. Both of them grew up on and loved James Bond movies, so I think they expected that I'd be too busy staring at the cool toys to notice the sexual undertones. Hell, I didn't figure out things like "Pussy Galore" until I was 13.

Archwolf: <<life has been way too busy, and I'm not even at finals yet>>: I hear you, dude. I think it gets worse before it gets better. <<just play Diablo II. same thing. Well, almost. The game DII has a better cast>>: But is the animation better?

Patrick: <<When I was growing up, I used to think every kid had to ask permission before watching a TV show, and that in every house kid TV time ended at 9 PM and then it was off to bed, or later when older, homework and then bed>>: Same here. When I found out that wasn't the case, I don't think I cared. <<Legos and train sets>>: Hell yeah! Long live legos! <<And as far as I know, the outdoors and all those various toys still exist today>>: You really have been in a cubicle too long ;-)

Spacebabie: <<My parents would lie>>: They just told me they'd tell me later. I usually forgot about it within minutes. <<Dad whats Forplay?" "Thats when four people are playing cards>>: Maybe your dad really doesn't know ;-) <<Thats an electric ear cleaner>>: Damn, that's some big ears. <<Remember when she was young?>>: She gets the title of "the only 40 year old I'd like to !@#$" <<why you should be nice to us women drivers…Josh>>: No, they won't sleep with me. And most of the are deadly. <<EVERY SINGLE DAY, I drive past at least one female that has a lousy love life, thinks men are her biggest problem, has seriously considered suicide or homicide, is having the worst day of her period, and is armed. No matter what she does in traffic, I wouldn't DREAM of flipping her off>>: Don't you just LOVE statistics!? Meanwhile...who cares? <<if you just look at the 7 lanes I am not in, that means I pass something like a new car every 40 feet per lane>>: Except you're forgetting that in bumper-to-bumper traffic...you aren't passing ANYONE. That works out to be about...7 cars for the entire 32 miles. Many times you might get slightly ahead, only to fall behind. Traffic's funny that way. So anyway, statistically your chance of being next to one of those bitches is about...zero. Fortunately for jerks like myself...that thought train is swiss cheese when it comes to logic. <<don’t make the same mistake hippie parents did and named their kids Sundog and Moonshine>>: I'm so glad my parents were too young to be hippies. <<I’ll allow Sesame street (I learned my alphabet before I was too>>: Too bad you didn't learn to spell. <<learned to count to ten in Spanish before I was three, and learned a little sign language>>: And learned to read on Dr. Suess, right? <<Know I don’t>>: I think you do, TREBEK! <<Ouch! Not until I’m deflowerd>>: And even then... <<Well most wedding dresses are white>>: Yes, but what I meant was...oh, nevermind. <<You make mud pies?>>: we don't get that much dirt to play with.

Daphne: <<we wached star trek TNG pretty much from birth>>: Same here. Dweebs unite! <<if it was new -- we had to wait>>: At least they cared. <<up til this year there was a "no renting r-rated movies" policy>>: Even though you're legal?

Lady Almalthea: <>: I'm impressed.

Jan: <<that's really a sad statement, even coming from you>>: I don't think he's coming across very well, either. <<Here's a novel idea - teach your child to learn the art of polite debating!>>: that would require actual parenting on Greg's part. I think he's made it clear that he doesn't want to do that. <<no one is going to listen to them because all they'll hear is a smart-ass and rude young person>>: Took me a few years to learn that. And boy does it pay off. <<We can either become a village>>: Who's the idiot? <<a strategic withdrawal...strategic materials...strategic marketing factors...strategic bombing>>: The word is strategic. Despite common usage (which is what leads "strategical" to be put in dictionary.com or even OED possibly), you will never hear someone in the military or even the history channel use that word (and if you tell me your brother or whatever in the military said it once, that doesn't count). You might hear George Dubya use it once or twice.

Lila: <>: Now if only you could get away with it when you were healthy and could actually enjoy it! <<my dad is buying a beamer>>: Which one? <<she's replacing her old car with a Mercedes>>: Which one? <<giving the old wheeles to me>>: Which is...? You wouldn't by chance be from either Encino, Tarzana, or Bev. Hills, would you? <<I'll only have classes on tuesdays and thursdays if I work it right>>: I was talking about doing that next semester as well. Problem is that my tuesdays and thursdays would be solid 8-5. Can't have that. <>: Agreed. I'll never have them. <<Why can't I make the rules?>>: because that's my job.

Yggdrasil: <<Please disregard the fact that I'm Canadian and were supposed to be anal about those things>>: No, you're right. The fact that basic table manners are absent from kids is really annoying.

IMPFAC: <<we slugged it out>>: Like a real fight!? AWESOME! Go you! <<Sometimes I love the soft headed liberals sycophants>>: You should date Lain. <>: I was raised to focus on what's close. If you're alone, you focus on yourself. If you have a family, you focus on that. There's a reasonable scope of a few people, and beyond that they need to fend for themselves. <<Maybe if you’re living in a penthouse in Cally>>: No, its a problem there too 8-)

Gside: <<You go for as much sex as you can get>>: Not as true as it used to be. <<From me>>: In your dreams. <<You're probably right>>: Don't be ridiculous. Of course I'm right. <<But who's the commander?>>: Depends on who you ask. <>; What does that have to do with fitting? <>: I think she might pick me first ;-) <<So where's the strife?>>: Why must gonads always be followed by strife? <<Everybody Must Get Stoned>>: Sorry, I'm busy.

Alright folks, time to dream of...stuff.

If we work really hard it could be a piece of crap.
-Lois, "Family Guy"

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Thursday, April 25, 2002 02:35:52 AM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Hey everyone! :)

Just dropping by really quickly to let you know that I'm so sorry about not updating CR Information and not replying to emails lately. I'll try to catch up on updates and replying to emails sometime within the next 2 weeks. I really apologize for any inconveniences. Thanks for understanding. (I'll explain more when I have more time.) Take care! **hugs**
Lady Mystic
Thursday, April 25, 2002 02:34:35 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Lady Amalthea> welcome to the CR, please place your sanity in here *opens the mouth of a baby Sandworm* why a baby Sandworm you say? well, an adult sandworm would probably be the lenth of atleast several hundred football fields....so its too large....but anyways, enjoy your stay!

Leo> <<we always watched "The Dukes of Hazzard" [By the way, I didn't notice back then but doens't Daisy Duke have a nice ....]>> of course she does...I remember those days when my parents, aunts and uncles would let me, my brother and my cousins watch "The Dukes of Hazzard". it was a definate favorite in my family...even had those "Dukes of Hazzard" trays with the fold up legs....

Gside> <<<<They *would* support the CLIT>>: But who's the commander?>> Why Jay of course

Snooch to the MotherF**king Nooch!!!!
Gavin - [Gavin@tankpolice.com]
Thursday, April 25, 2002 01:51:15 AM
IP: 161.45.210.171

Mooncat said <<Sorry, we are not a village. I'm not responsible for raising your kid. You are.>>

Jan said <<very naive statement.>>

Actually, it's a true statement. Sorry, I am under NO obligation to be a "good role model" for your kids. If I wind up with kids of my own, I'll be as good a role model as possible for *them*, but until then I will a happy human adult being who isn't going to become a Stepford Clone to please someone else's idea of 'good role model' for *their* kid.

Impfac <<Well, that is basically what is wrong with society. Everyone is OBSESSED with what feels good, and what they can do for themselves-but helping, even not harming, others? There is no interest. I guess I grew up with the wrong morals-I actually care about others. I always play with the four year old that lives across the street, and do chores for my ninety year old next door neighbor. What do you do? What do you do when you see children abused, or parents abdicating their duty? Nothing? I’m old fashioned-I do something. I don’t know why you’d be so proud to stand idle. >>

This is for Jan and Impfac ---

As for abused and neglected children, their situation is a great tragedy, but it's *not* my fault in any way, shape, or form that their biological parents/care givers beat, molested, or ignored them. Anyone trying to lay a guilt trip on me about how everyone in society is responsible for all children everywhere is *so* barking up the wrong tree.

Most criminals come from abused or neglected homes? Well duh! And a lot of people who are NOT criminals also came from homes just as abusing or neglected. All that means is that there are a hell of a lot of abused and neglected children in the world, past, present, and undoubtably in the future. Here is a little secret. Abuse and neglect are *not* the fault of the entertainment industry.

I am *very* aware of what it is like to be a victim of abuse. My father was the greatest, and I'll honor his memory forever. My mother on the other hand has problems that include having been severely abused as a child herself. That and certain physical/mental imbalances led her to pass on that abuse on to her children. She did things to me that pretty much count as torture. Mental and physical. Yes, I know what it's like to be covered in my own blood, and that was the least of it. Wonderful how clear some memories are even from the tender age of three. So pardon if I don't buy into metaphorical village kum -ba-yah crap.

Entertainment role models had no tie in what so ever in most real life abuse situations. Case in point, my own situation. My mother had chemical imbalances that contributed to her being mentally ill (paranoid schizophrenia) and a history of abuse spanning back generations. Back in the 1950s before prevalent sexy clothes, before the sexual revolution, way back when "good role models" were the only kind of role models available in the entertainment world, my mother was herself severely abused and repeatedly raped by her step father.

She left home soon as she was legally able, made her way to college where she met my father. They were married, I was born, and the tragedy of life is that she was not able to break the cycle of abuse she was heir to. Until I was about 13 I lived in mortal terror of her. And excuse my French, but this had f*ck all to do with society providing "bad role models". It had to deal quite directly with how she was treated by her care giver, and her own physical/mental state.

Family, biological or otherwise, those flesh and blood people who are the closest to you, are where you get most direct and impacting 'role model'. I only thank the powers that be that my Father was to me the perfect role model. Hardworking, non-abusive, and when he was not working was at home making sure his kids were okay. He *never* knew how bad it got when he was away at work, and my mom was always careful not to seriously harm me in his sight. He did his best, and to me his best was pretty phenomenal.

It wasn't until around 1980 my mother got properly diagnosed and prescribed medication to curb her more psychotic tendencies. I don't really blame her for what she did to me. Without medication, she has no self control. With medication she pretty much has a child like personality.

Now guess what? I grew up with a little piece of hell breathing hot on my neck, and I'm *not* a criminal. In fact I was pretty much a goodie, goodie child growing up. Terror can make you act extremely proper, when you are doing your very best not to upset a crazy person who quite literally has power of life and death over you.

If I run into an a kid in similar situation, I'll do my bit to help get them away from their abusive caregiver, but that may not be possible. Legally, without concrete evidence of abuse, the system can do very little to protect a child from an ongoing abusive home situation. It's a situation rife with shame, and even while being badly abused, a lot of kids will go out of their way to be as "normal" as possible rather than have the world know what the hell is going on.

If I can't do anything about the abuse, I'm willing to simply be a friend if they are looking for one and they don't creep me out -- note some kids do give the *serious creepies*, and if they do I pay attention to my danger sense and get the hell out of dodge, cuz my daddy didn't raise no stupid child -- but other than that, which is a personal choice, I will not accept the world's woes laid at my, (as an individual or as a part of society), feet.

Here is my world view is you take care of your own, be kind when you can, and don't try to shift responsibility for your life onto anyone else's shoulders but your own, and don't let anyone else try to force responsibility of their life or their kids or the world at large, onto you. I'm responsible for me. And if I have kids, I'll be responsible for them. Don't like it? Tough.

In the meanwhile I'll watch Brittany Spears (sp?) do her little faux strip teases and cheer her on for being "one of the lucky ones" -- If kids watch stuff like Madonna (like I did) or Brittany, and think she's the coolest thing since sliced bread, there are far worse things in life than watching a girl dance around in sexy clothes and creating fantasies of bright, sparkling carefree pleasure for a few precious minutes. Entertainment, in all it's sexy, violent, bright, bubbly, inappropriate confusion, and the blissful moments of ease it gave me as a child is what kept me sane. Entertainment is also considered escapism. And there are few who need escape as badly as an abused or neglected child.

This is all probably TMI, but frankly, I don't give f*ck. Anyone (generally speaking) who want's to try and lay child abuse on my doorstep because I don't intend to raise other people's children can go screw themselves.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Thursday, April 25, 2002 01:20:05 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Imzadi> <>: You go for as much sex as you can get. From me.
<>: You're probably right.
<<They *would* support the CLIT>>: But who's the commander?
<<They might not fit>>: I hear there are many external nerves.
<<LOL>>: Further proof that being in ECE is warping me.

Lain> <<carrot juice is murder>>: But what's really bad is the constant torture to John Barleycorn.

CSH> Congratulations on the win.

Spacebabie> <<Know I don?t>>: Oh, but yes you do.
<<Ouch! Not until I?m deflowerd>>: I just might be able to help you with that.
<<True they are both called gonads>>: So where's the strife?

Amalthea> <<you're assuming I have any>>: It's just a precaution.

Time for some classic Dylan. Everybody Must Get Stoned.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Thursday, April 25, 2002 01:06:43 AM
IP: 198.151.130.133

ZIONISM IS TERRORISM

There was a small group of people with a cheap banner reading just this. I was on my way to class, leaving my Judaism course, when I noticed this. A friend from that course was looking over their stuff with a look of dismay, but was saying nothing.

I went up, and began to look the stuff over. I don’t recall what the Muslim gentlemen (a religion I have a deep and residing respect for) said to me, but my reply was something like, “well, if self defense is terrorism I guess you are right.”

And thus it began. My friend felt obligated to jump in. Over the next fifteen minutes (thus making me late for class, of course ^_^) we slugged it out. The two of us verse a small, very hostile crowd.

I still feel confident I won.

These people piss me off. They talk about how Israel kills children, but conveniently forget that it is the terrorist giving guns and bombs to these children, or are using them as human shields and teaching them to be martyrs for the cause, all to get the best media exposure. It is widely know that this is what Islamic Jihad does.

Of course, I reminded these people of that fact, but they didn’t like it much. Sometimes I love the soft headed liberals sycophants.

Not allowed to watch> Interestingly, my parents exposed me to pretty much everything themselves. I’ve never read a Steven King book in my life, but from the age of 10 or so, my parents would listen to his books on tape during our long car trip to Main. Trust me, that certainly taught me stuff. My dad also read my Steven King books. These facts probably explain my 12th grade reading comprehension in 5th grade, and my later testing in the 95+ percentile verbally.

Also, TV, internet, and movies were basically unrestricted. I know *NOW* I was pretty obvious about the one or two *special* tapes I had when I was young (and a collection of not so nice gargoyles pictures later on ;-) -my parents allowed it.

I’ll probably do the same to my children. I’m not sure.

GB <<>> Hey, I talk back to my teachers. Always have and always will. But I was taught ***HOW*** to talk back!!! I never went, “you’re a flipping idiot!” Raise your kid this way, and that might be just what you get. Hey, I WANT a little contrarian-but not of this brand.

<<<ANd if my kid gets in trouble for cursing at school, the only one who I'm going to blow up at is the teacher.>>>

I’m not wild about the respect/caring you have for children. You’re kids are starting out with a huge disadvantage. Teaching them you’re always their to bail them out from their own stupidity just teaches them to do more stupidity. Are you going to be there when they get fired for cussing out their boss too?

MC> (GB attributed this to you, I assume he is right) <<Some say it takes a village to raise a child. Sorry, we are not a village. I'm not responsible for raising your kid. You are.>>

Well, that is basically what is wrong with society. Everyone is OBSESSED with what feels good, and what they can do for themselves-but helping, even not harming, others? There is no interest. I guess I grew up with the wrong morals-I actually care about others. I always play with the four year old that lives across the street, and do chores for my ninety year old next door neighbor. What do you do?

What do you do when you see children abused, or parents abdicating their duty? Nothing? I’m old fashioned-I do something. I don’t know why you’d be so proud to stand idle.

People shouldn’t be so terrible selfish all the time. We’ve LOST our sense of community, and that is sad. We’re all in this together, people.

Abused and neglected children grow up to be criminals, who produce more little criminals. Not all, but a disturbing number. This isn’t you’re problem? The billions we spend on prisons and welfare isn’t you’re problem? Maybe if you’re living in a penthouse in Cally, but in the real world, bad kids who grow up to be bad people thanks to bad parents are EVERYONE’S problem. ANYONE who is proud to not care (and I’m addressing this generally, BTW) should be ASHAMED.

Hehe, welcome to IMPFAC’s no spin zone.

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:40:18 AM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Greetings;

Well surprisingly this is not the longest stint where I have been AWOL from the CR. I must monopolize on this time!

*** TGS Staff Ignore the Following ***

Still Waiting!!!!!!!

*** TGS Staff Resume ***

Kids and TV, discipline, the degradation of the social fabric, ect...: Well what can I say I personally blame much of the problems facing Western society on a lack of firm discipline on children today. I am not referring to corporal punishment, but I am talking about what I can only say is a failure (fear, confusion?) of many parents to properly correct socially inappropriate behaviour in their children. What we have is a society where even simple things like basic etiquette and manners are lacking from our youths (Please disregard the fact that I'm Canadian and were supposed to be anal about those things [Please forgive the use of any objectionable words in the previous preamble {Please .... all right you get it :-)}])

There have been many times where I have been walking in a public location and have seen children, in full view of their parents, engaging in behaviours that would be considered abhorrent in most social circles. I know in my childhood behaviours like this would be med with a good lecture on what is proper behaviour for someone, today however this discipline and respect is apparently lacking on many levels. I don't blame the media; I grew up watching many shows that were many times more violent than the children’s fair today (My favourite show for quite a while was Tour of Duty).

I can't be certain of the real cause of the degeneration of social grace, but I personally think that it involves a lack of discipline and a general sense of apathy towards our behaviour and how it affects others.

Lain: It's sad that beer adds can provide some of the most humorous TV out there. The Molson series has had a wide range of adds, from great (the beaver, that one with the office guy teasing the new guy for being Canadian) to stupid (they that shall not be named for fear that they will gain power). But you are right when I first saw the beaver add I nearly fell out of my chair laughing (that and I had an overwhelming urge to watch Monty Python)

I hope your other exams went better than the one you described earlier. I defended my thesis and it was rough, but it's done.

*** Final Parting Rant ***

This is to bring to light something that really ticked me off today. This week during two different sporting events (Basketball: Detroit Vs. Toronto and Hockey) American fans booed the Canadian national anthem. This relates to my earlier post about the loss of respect in our society. I don't care if you hate a sports team, respect the country that the anthem represents. I realize that playoff time can be stressful but when you interrupt a countries anthem you are not just insulting the team, the team's country, but also your country with your lack of respect. This event is also in incredibly bad taste given the events in Afghanistan. We are a country in mourning, don't add insult to injury by being crass.

*** End Rant ***

Farewell

Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:31:36 PM
IP: 24.43.225.56

Josh> <<Believe it or not, strategical is not a word.>>

stra·te·gic (str-tjk) also stra·te·gi·cal (-j-kl)
adj.
Of or relating to strategy.

Important or essential in relation to a plan of action: a strategic withdrawal.
Essential to the effective conduct of war: strategic materials.
Highly important to an intended objective: The staff discussed strategic marketing factors.
Intended to destroy the military potential of an enemy: strategic bombing.

Reference: www.dictionary.com

Lexy> thanks :)
Jan
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:50:31 PM
IP: 12.110.237.63

Amalthea- Coolies:D

Jan- <<very naive statement.>> *nods head, nodes head* Couldn't have said it better.
Lexy
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:35:12 PM
IP: 66.31.222.137

Woohoo! Now I'm not the only spoiled brat in here! 8-)
Josh
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 08:59:40 PM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Ew, I've managed to catch the flu. I hate the flu, but I love self indulgently relaxing in bed, skipping my gym time, and reading whatever I please as I sip water and broth. On a brighter note, my dad is buying a beamer. And my mom got jealous, so she's replacing her old car with a Mercedes... and giving the old wheeles to me. ::blinks twice at good fortune, doesn't question a good thing, moves on:: School's almost over, preregistration is nearly here, I'll only have classes on tuesdays and thursdays if I work it right, life is pretty good, except for multiple trips to the 'loo per flu.

As for this discussion regarding childhood blah blah blah and parenting... is anyone really debating, or are we all in agreement that it is primarily the parent's responsibility to filter the filth in the media?

I firmly think that when you have kids, your life ends. You're first responsibility is to them, raise them, feed them, give them what they need to do better than you did. I don't want kids... I'm too much enthralled with my own possibilities, and I don't want the limits kids would inflict upon my life.
Someone stated: <So if some parent thinks it's adorable that their little precious wears hip huggers at age 4, it's not Brittany's fault, it's MOM's.> Amen to that. I personally found it disturbing when children I babysat for in high school were doing a Lip Synch at a talent show to "Hit me Baby", complete with suggestive dance moves. Guess who helped them with their choreography? No, not music videos, my friends, their Mommy.
If you know anyone who might be a parent like that, please convince them to sterilize themselves permanently. If only sterility were handed out with idiocy at birth, we'd get rid of overpopulation, too! Why can't I make the rules? Sigh. Okay, I'm done.
::sick girl takes long, indulgent shower, and goes back to sleep::
lila - [liejones@yahoo.com]
la, ca, usa
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 07:56:49 PM
IP: 134.173.121.188

<<Some say it takes a village to raise a child. Sorry, we are not a village. I'm not responsible for raising your kid. You are.>> very naive statement. Yes, the parent has the ultimate responsibility of raising a child - but is the parent the ONLY person that this child will ever see? There will be no additional influences, examples of behavior, etc. for this child during their growing up years? That phrase is not to be taken literaly. Of course I would never expect anyone else to raise my children - but I would hope that other responsible adults would be a good example for them. Sure they saw people who were not the appropriate examples of what a mature adult should be, but overall, the majority of adults were. I could not be with my children 24/7/365. I never said that I expected others to raise my children or to even help me with it - but it is a responsibility of society to try and be the best example of adulthood for the children as we possibly can be.

Greg> you keep saying that you don't care - that's really a sad statement, even coming from you.
You're going to allow your children to cuss, talk back to the teachers, etc.? Be sure and check out the Juvie Dentention Centers in your area when you have children.. more than likely your child will end up being a resident there. Talk back to the teacher... *shakes head* eesh. Here's a novel idea - teach your child to learn the art of polite debating! There's a difference between "talking back" and stating your POV or disagreement in a civil respectable way. No one is going to listen to a smart-ass mouth child/teen. I don't care if they are brilliant - no one is going to listen to them because all they'll hear is a smart-ass and rude young person.

In a perfect world, all parents spend the time with their children, they monitor everything around them, they limit their intake of TV, they screen the music the kids listen to, they spend quality time with their children and they teach them the values necessary in order to grow up as responsible and caring adults. Most of us in here had that type of home-life or those of us who have children have provided that. However, there are parents out there who don't do that. We can either become a village and try to provide as much positive and moral examples as we possibly can to those children who have not had the same lifestyle and homelife that we all had or are providing and hope that it makes a difference in that child's life... or we can turn our backs on them and say "I don't give a f!ck what happens to that kid - he's not mine to worry about" and then pray that this kid isn't the one vandalising your home, raping your wife, daughter, sister or or mugging you on the street. Children who come from homes where people don't care are the ones most likely to enter a life of crime.
And for pete's sake I don't want to hear anyone say, "I had a bad life and I turned out great!" "Not all children who were neglected are rapists, Jan" Well, d'uh! I didn't say ALL children - but it's a common factor among criminals that MOST of them had a neglectful or abusive childhood.
I just want to make that clear up front. Head off the applausing of others who have completely missed my point or being racked over the coals for something I didn't even say.

"If they can't take care of kids, then don't have them". Too late - they've already given birth to them. It's not my responsibility to raise them, but it's my responsibility as a human to be a good example for them.

"Never has a man stood so tall as when he knelt to help a child."
Jan
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 04:53:23 PM
IP: 12.110.237.115

Lexy: <<Did you take your name from the Last Unicorn?>> Yes I did. It is one of my favorites also. My boyfriend bought the book, movie, and soundtrack for me on my B-day.

Gside: <<Welcome, when the bug blue guy comes back, please give him your sanity.>> you're assuming I have any ;p
<<Don't worry, we have our ways of finding out.>> I'm sure you do.

DPH: <<We have a smart lurker.>> thank you. I believe in the old saying "look before you leap".

Winterwolf: <<Welcome to the CR.>> Thanks.
Lady Amalthea
San Diego, CA, USA
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 03:52:43 PM
IP: 66.27.85.63

yeah, I'm one of the "little kids" of the room, but my parents were tight on TV habits, too... my family still doesn't have cable (it's a perk of dorm life).
My brother and I couldn't watch the Simpsons, ER, or the X-files until we were about 10 or 11, and until we hit our teens mom and dad still insisted we only watch reruns -- that way, they'd have seen and ok'ed the episode. we wached star trek TNG pretty much from birth, though. as little kids we got in trouble for watching saturday morning cartoons without getting permisison first -- the standards (ninja turtles, Ghostbusters, all those other late-80s things) were ok, since they were familiar with them, but if it was new -- we had to wait.
My brother and I both got TV's for 8th grade graduation, and VCRs for the christmas of sophmore year. At this point, it was moot trying to control what we watched (my brother works the V-chip in his TV better than my parents do, and they know it). this year, we both got DVD players -- my brother won his, I got mine for my birthday. However, up til this year there was a "no renting r-rated movies" policy, and until I bought The Matrix a few weeks ago I dont think we had any r-rated movies in the house.
I'm 19, my brother is almost 16. We were raised pretty pacifist/conservative (debate whether that's possible if you want, but here I stand), and we remain goody-two-shoes to this day.

As far as little kids and language... well, one of my earliest memories is of my mom yelling at my cousin for saying "Oh my God" around me. so yeah... proper language was instilled pretty early, too.

just weighing in.

Daphne
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 03:34:50 PM
IP: 129.68.10.47

Kids watcing "prime time" TV?

Until I was 8 years old, my "bedtime" was at 8:00. And even then "prime time tv" (which consisted of "Dallas," "Starski & Hutch", etc..) to me and probably everyone else at that age was "boooorringg." There was one exception, and my parents let me and my brother "stay up late" for that show. Fridays at 8:00 on cbs, we always watched "The Dukes of Hazzard" [By the way, I didn't notice back then but doens't Daisy Duke have a nice ....]

Leo
Yorktown, Va
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 02:15:31 PM
IP: 172.135.212.162

What I wasn't allowed to watch??? hmmmm
Oh yeah Heavy Metal... and that was about it. Of course when I asked questions. My parents would lie.

For example...Watching the Three Amigos on HBO
"Dad whats Forplay?"
"Thats when four people are playing cards."
And when the daughter brought out the vibrator in "Parenthood"
"What is that thing?"
"Thats an electric ear cleaner"
The last one I don't really understand since I was in my early teens when I first saw the movie.

Kid Stuff>>>Lets see when I was in elementary school MTV only played videos. So the closest thing to Brittney was Madonna. Remember when she was young? Of course I was a Cyndi Lauper fan and my first record was “She’s so Unusual” I spun that on my little record player. You know the kind that had the speaker inside the lid.
Jewelry: mostly barrettes, anything that had something to do with Unicorns, Cabbage Patch kids and My Little Pony and of course Charmkins.
Make up: Those fruity little lip glosses and Tinker Belle brand make up.
I didn’t start real make up until the sixth grade and still I had to wait a year until I could move from gloss to lipstick and I was 14 before I wore masscara.
I did get my ears pierced when I was eight, but I didn’t get double pierced until I was in my 20’s.

This is interesting
I found this in my e-mail box.
Now you know why you should be nice to us women drivers…Josh
I was riding to work yesterday, when I observed a female driver cut
right in front of a pickup truck, causing him to have to drive on the
shoulder. This evidently peeved the driver enough that he hung out
his window and flipped the woman off.

"Man, that guy is stupid" I thought to myself. I ALWAYS smile nicely
and wave in a sheepish manner whenever a female does anything to me in
traffic, and here's why:

I drive 38 miles each way, every day, to work. That's 76 miles, 16
each way is bumper-to-bumper. Most of the bumper-to-bumper is on an
8-lane highway. So, if you just look at the 7 lanes I am not in, that
means I pass something like a new car every 40 feet per lane. That's
7 cars every 40 feet for 32 miles. That works out to be 982 cars
every mile, or 31,424 cars. Even though the rest of the 34 miles is
not bumper-to-bumper, I figure I pass at least another 4000 cars.
That brings the number to something like 36,000 cars I pass every day.

Statistically, half of these are driven by females, that's 18,000. In
any given group of females, 1 in 28 are having the worst day of their
period. That is 642. According to Cosmopolitan, 70% describe their
love life as dissatisfying or unrewarding, that's 449. According to
the National Institutes of Health, 22% of all females have seriously
considered suicide or homicide, that's 98. And, 34% describe men as
their biggest problem, that's 33. According to the National Rifle
Association, 5% of all females carry weapons, and the number is
increasing.

That means, that EVERY SINGLE DAY, I drive past at least one female
that has a lousy love life, thinks men are her biggest problem, has
seriously considered suicide or homicide, is having the worst day of
her period, and is armed. No matter what she does in traffic, I
wouldn't DREAM of flipping her off.

Replies
Jan>>>That’s sad about the children and the horses.

GXB<<<South Park" or "The Flintstones"?>>>Hey the Flintstones are pretty good. Thye paved the way for Prime Time Animation.<<>>Not bad. I was six when I saw “Poltergeist”<<<My son will be either Lucifer or Damien. My daughter, well that's a no-brainer... Demona! >>>So these kids will ask their friends to call them Lou and Demmi while they can’t wait til they reach the age where they can legally change their name…seriously dude don’t make the same mistake hippie parents did and named their kids Sundog and Moonshine.<<<You want to know what I won't allow in my house? Mary Poppins, Barney, Sesame Street, and all that other crap.>>>I’ll allow Sesame street (I learned my alphabet before I was too, learned to count to ten in Spanish before I was three, and learned a little sign language), but no Barney or Teletubbies.

Gunjack>>>I agree

Gside<<<Oh, you know.>>>Know I don’t<<<Ever think about two at once? >>>Ouch! Not until I’m deflowerd.<<<They're still mostly spherical.>>>True they are both called gonads

Josh<<<call the staff. Email Siryn. Or just see if the check cleared. >>>I’ll do that. And if nothing happens I will have a wad of cash, besides I already got to sit at the head table with the big cheese already.<<>>Me too<<<>>Well most wedding dresses are white<<<Porn.>>>He can take a number.<<<Good, cuz that's a bad image.>>>and painfull.<<<Does he read this CR?>>>No he just annoying.<<<In Geotech? Dirt.>>>You make mud pies?

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:58:54 PM
IP: 67.25.54.204

Finally got a chance today to polish off the rest of Silversilk and I have to ask...

Christine- Is it just me or does Lionnen's Planchee resemble a certain webed-winged character we all know well?

Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, tx
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:56:52 PM
IP: 129.120.230.108

Patrick -- hey, PBS!!! I loved PBS when I was a kid. Saw my first music videos there. Lionel Richie's "Dance All Night" and Cyndi Lauper's "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" *^_^* And Electric Company, Sesame Street, and most importantly for me... Star Trek and Dr. Who.

Yes, I'd run home from school every day to catch PBS, and dream of becoming one of the Doctor's companions.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:23:38 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Hmmm, forgot my icon.

In the paragraph where I mention how much I spent on comic books, the $10 a week was when I'd reached age 13, not when I was 7 years old *^_~*

Mooncat
>^,,^<
MC
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:13:55 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Childhood and Things I wasn't allowed to watch...

Charlies Angels and Wonder Woman. I kid you not. But my mom was trifle off her nut and would come up with restrictions out of thin air.

One day I was watching Love Boat, and some story line made me cry buckets --as a kid, I'd express sympathy with great weepy sobs, or shrieks of laughter-- anyhoo, Here I am crying buckets and it nearly landed me banned from watching Love Boat. I learned to control my expression of emotion pretty fast. I wasn't about to jeopardize my TV rights with Love Boat and risk Fantasy Island too.

Personal TV -- My father finally bought me a tiny 13 inch color TV of my own when I was around 13 *^_^* -- it was by the way the first color TV in the house. Yes, I grew up as a kid on watching shows on a b/w set. My father didn't think color was worth the extra money. Luxury in the house was food and clothes. I was allowed to read whatever I wished, but it all came out of my tiny allowance, which had to stretch for any other item I wanted, comics, candy, etc.
We **never had cable** because my father said it would interfere with my studies. Yes he could have afforded it easily. He just wasn't interested in watching it himself or spending the $20 a month price tag it had. When I could afford it out of my own pocket, I was welcome to have it. However, when I finally got to having a decent amount of money at around age 13, $15 a week allowance, which would allow me to get cable, it was already spoken for in books, comics, movies, etc.

If I wanted ANYTHING - toys, special clothes, special food (fast food), etc, I was allowed... as long as I paid for it out of my own money. Taught me the value of a dollar very, very quickly. If people think I pay a mite too much attention to price tags and dollar and cents amounts, it's a hold over from my childhood where knowing the price to the exact cent and calculating time and sacrifice of other items was what allowed me to have the things I most desperately wanted. My dad started me at 7 years old with 3 dollars a week. Needless to say I didn't waste my precious dollars on designer clothes. I bought used paperback books and comics (one hardback would wipe out a week's allowance plus, and I had a 10 dollar a week comic book habit) and blank audio tapes for taping music off the radio. I remember buying my first Elf Quest graphic novel. I thought I'd die, spending so much money on one single item. It was about 2 full week's allowance plus, which meant I had to save for months to afford it and *not* cut into my regular books and comic books habit. No cable, remember? Comic books were my 'bad influence' *^_^* -- my dream was to grow up and become Catwoman.

My father bought me exactly two 'expensive' items for my entire life, each a combined birthday/x-mas present. The little color tv at thirteen, and a vcr (mono 2 track, cheapest availableon the market and it was still over $200 at the time) at 15 or 16 years old. After that I counted pennies to afford blank VCR tape and rental vids (which by the way, he'd only gotten me the VCR because he thought it would help me focus on study if I could tape my shows and watch them at a later date)

My father was very frugal. The only extravagance (sp?) you were allowed was what you bought yourself out of a limited money pool. If you wanted to have a Big Mac, Fries and Coke instead of rice and whatever he had cooked or what was in the frig, you had to buy it yourself and know *to the penny* what you'd have to give up.

Movies, video arcade, art supplies, etc... whatever you wanted as much as you wanted... as long as you paid it yourself out of your own pocket. Did I want to see a movie one week, eat a burger, or buy a book? Usually a book and a burger would win out, unless the movie was really good, then I had to give up something.

I didn't wind up having cable until I was in my twenties and had my own apartment and a full time job. However I had plenty of 'exposure' to it from visiting friends houses while growing up. My folks didn't mind me watching it, but they just weren't about to spend their own money for it. My friends wondered why I loved their MTV and other cable only shows so much, and watch their TV happy as a clam when given the chance. They took it so very much for granted, because "everyone" had it. I got the strangest looks when I told them, "no, we don't have cable tv". It was something that baffled many of them.

I was so thrilled when I finally got my very own cable. It was the year 1995 and I learned TLC's "Waterfalls" and Alanis Morrisette's "You Outta Know" by heart because they were the most played songs on MTV at the time, and I had the set on that channel and the Sci-Fi channel almost non-stop. I never turned off the set except when I left the house, and sometimes not then. Hey, I worked until 1am, got home around 2am, and a friendly bright TV screen when I opened the door was worth the extra electricity.

I think the only thing that might have made that year better, is if I'd been able to watch Gargoyles. It premiered during a time I was at work, and I never caught it on TV (though I did hunt down a few rental tapes) until after it had completed it's original network run and I by chance saw it on cable... at the end of it's run there. sigh. Then finally got regular Disney Channel as part of my basic cable package, woo hoo! And got to see City of Stone over and over and over... cause they'd just shifted the main show over to their toon only channel, which wasn't available to me until LAST YEAR!!! Yes, I got Toon Disney almost one year ago in May. And finally got to see the entire series.

Which, in a roundabout way, is why I'm in the fandom so very late, despite being a total toon-a-holic/sci-fi fantasy fan.

The lesson in today's story... hmmm... if you don't get cable your kid could wind up becoming a comic book junkie *^_~* ... heh. I still have a comic book habit, less comics cost more money. Mmm... comic books!

Mooncat toddles off, torn between doing house work or drawing pin-ups of Purgatori and Demona...

>^,,^<
Mooncat
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:09:53 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Ah, having the luxery of the time to post something here. I don't get to read all the comments as much as I'd like to, but one stuck out at me as something that I found interesting.

omeone mentioned the poor parenting in regards to "South Park" and Comedy Central, etc. I'm almost 19, and I remember being in junior high when this show first started. I thought it was hilarious. Dick and fart jokes on at a resonable time? I couldn't believe it. It was something to get in on at the very first moment. The later episodes, especially the movie and these last two seasons, seem to me to be very critial social commentary. Very intellegent social commentary hidden in a cartoon aiming at children who are to young to watch and understand it. Especially the film, which in itself is a brilliant piece of art (yes, art) and commentary on censorship in America and the world in general.

Just something that struck me. No real point to it, other than I had five minutes of free time.

*goes off to attempt to finish writing the remaining episodes of Timedancer (coming soon, maybe)*
Alan Coleman Waltrip - [awaltrip@cableone.net]
Odessa/Midland, TX
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:21:06 PM
IP: 204.158.147.207

Doh, forgot to ad my namelink...
Stephen R. Sobotka Jr. - [ssobotka33616@yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL, USA
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:44:31 AM
IP: 65.35.132.45

Greetings all...

I said it to her earlier, but congrats to Spike for winning that contest! A good think indeed!

I have more to say, but I need to get some errands done, so I'll do a longer post later. But, here's a little something to share... just a little project I've been working on:

http://tenament.dyn.dhs.org/stephenrs/shrines/ramona_shrine.html

Go there, or click on my name.

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr. - [ssobotka33616@yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL, USA
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:44:00 AM
IP: 65.35.132.45

When I was growing up, I used to think every kid had to ask permission before watching a TV show, and that in every house kid TV time ended at 9 PM and then it was off to bed, or later when older, homework and then bed. Now granted... my family didn't get cable TV (which back then meant 40 channels instead of just 10) until just before I entered junior high, so the only network availble for "babysitting" duty was PBS... but I still don't recall ever being mindlessly planted in front of the tube by mom or dad. If they wanted me and my sisters to keep busy for a while on our own, we were either set loose on the backyard to cause swingset mayhem with the neighbor kids, or we had Legos and train sets (in my case) and Barbies and whatnot (in my sisters' case) to keep us occupied. And as far as I know, the outdoors and all those various toys still exist today. So I guess for a parent who's willing to exert the 30-seconds of effort to give instruction what to go do, it's really a matter of choice. Let a kid watch some more TV, or direct them to some other more productive activty. For the parents who aren't willing to spend the time to make an active effort, well, you get what you get. If junior's perogative is to vegetate in front of the tube watching "South Park," I don't think Comedy Central is to blame for the poor parenting.

As for little kids who cuss... sorry, I don't think it's "cute" either, but when I see/hear it, I don't hold it against the kid. I hold it against the lazy parent who never taught the kid how to be polite and respectful. And any parent who'd get mad at the teacher for correcting little Johnny for his potty mouth... that's a person who just needs a good bonk over the head with a clue bat. Reality check time. If you're going to slack on your duties as a parent and leave it up to the schools to set your darling child straight regarding his or her "cute" behavior, you've also forfeited your right to complain when little Johnny comes home with his feelings hurt.

Anyway, enough on that for now. I'm starting to feel like an old person. :P

Rahsaan > Thanks for the "What Tomorrow Brings" plug. :)
Patrick Toman
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:26:23 AM
IP: 66.72.205.187

Yeesh...what a last few weeks. life has been way too busy, and I'm not even at finals yet (2 weeks to go there). Life at the call center is a humorous/frustrating as normal. I hate stupid people. I really do.

anyway.

For those of you who think you want to see Scorpoin King, just play Diablo II. same thing. Well, almost. The game DII has a better cast. Not that the movie wasn't funny, it was just not worth even the matinee price. I think the only good line in the movie was "The valley of the dead? nobody goes there. That's why it's called, the Valley of the Dead!" Other than that, not worth it.

Lain>Arrogant Worms!!! I am cow, hear me moo! Spend a night in dildo if you've got the time! (I still think Captain Tractor is the best)

New toy:: I just bought a server. Won it at our school property auction. $15 for a Digital 2100 Alphaserver. Now, if i could just find a book on OpenVMS. This thing has some fun stuff. Came witha VAX setup too. A coupel storage expansion units for the VAX (minus cables, of course) and a couple drive stacks for the server itself. And a tape drive, which happens to have a daily backup in it. So, whe i finally manage to getinto the thing, I might call up the department it came from and ask if the would like one of their backups back. Cause if they don't want it, i'm gonna harvest what everis on there, then dump the tape. Why did i get the thing? Uhm..server for $15, who could pass it up? Besideds, my dad wants to network his house. So i figured, what the heck.

Ok, i gotta get back to working on some ethics studying. then i'm gonna go play with my server. I wonder what they will think when they get the dormatory power-consumption analysis for the month......
archwolf - [thearchwolf@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:24:50 AM
IP: 137.148.201.58

I agree with Kathy -- it's how you shape your child's early experiences that remain with them. Children need set boundaries and parents willing to discipline them. I was never allowed to watch James Bond movies for some strange reason -- and yet Star Trek with painted alien chicks in glitter wear was okay. *rolls eyes*

I'm having a marvelous day -- I found out this morning that I won a game illustration contest that I'd entered way back in February and clean forgot about. This is the second art contest that I've won this month that I didn't think I had a chance at -- the other was for B&W art to go in the A-kon 13 flyer. Woo!

*comtemplates buying lottery tickets*

Spike
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:23:17 AM
IP: 64.216.238.153

Damn I hate these college computers.

Well, a few quick replies.

DPH> <<History Channel>> You mean the Hitler Channel. Yeah, that's "kid friendly" <<Sorry, but I have already demonstrated that we have to some basic degree of "self-lessness" for society to surive and thrive.>> Huh? When was that? No matter, let's save this debate for another time.

IMPFAC> <<Oh dear, I’ve got some problems with this.>> I figured you would. <<First, you’re right; it isn’t the media’s problem: IT IS EVERYONE’S PROBLEM. So we as a whole must deal with it.>> Nope, let the parents deal with it if they want. Personally I don't see what the big deal is. <<Turn of the TV? Sure-but they’re going to be exposed anyway. What about when little Billy goes to a friends house, or gets on the internet, or is going down the street and sees an ad, etc etc?>> Don't care, don't care, don't care. <<The fact is, the pervasiveness of this violent, sexy trash interferes with parents ability to raise their children as they wish.>> Yeah, isn't it great? <<*gasps* Well, now you’re just being... well, this is a PG room, right?>> It's PG-13. Say it! <<WRONG.>> RIGHT! <<Perhaps if you ever have kids you’ll be more sympathetic to the argument. You’ll probably want to put you’re feet up once in a while, too-and I don’t think that makes you some awful person.>> Hey, my kid is going to be raised on things like "South Park", George Carlin, "Gargoyles", and other things I like. I'm not going to shield them from anything. I want a kid who'll talk back to his teacher when he is told bullshit in class. <<OUR OBJECTIONS ARE SIMPLE: The media is TARGETING this stuff at children!>> So? It's capitalism. What this great republic is built on. <<The movie industry has been targeting R rated movies at teens for years. The execs have admitted as much. Same goes for violent video games, music, and entertainment. How can parents possible screen everything their kids watch??? They cannot.>> Yeah they can, don't own a TV, or keep it in their bedroom behind a locked door, or any other things. Why should I have to give up watching the trash that I do over some stupid children <<We, the consumer, simply don’t want sex and violence designed for our children’s consumption.>> Speak for yourself, I just don't care, as long as I get to see what I like. <<Teaching kids they can be disrespectful like that gives them a mindset that doesn’t contribute to later success in life.>> Nothing wrong with those so called curse words. They're just words. Sounds and syllables. No one ever died from it. ANd if my kid gets in trouble for cursing at school, the only one who I'm going to blow up at is the teacher.

JOSH> <<Until you get sued>> Yeah, but it won't hold up in a court of law. I didn't force anyone to watch my stuff, they chose to. <<My parents know that if they ever tried to embarass me in front of a girl...I'd be signing the inheritance papers the next day>> Yeah, but mine aren't rich, and there is not much to inherit. <<Please don't reproduce.>> I wasn't going to, but now I want to. Make sure I leave behind a legacy. <<No, its the parents problem. But the media does have some effect. Its the parents responsibility to filter it for the kids.>> Exactly. <> Hey, I think it's abnormal if people don't. <<Actually that's almost exactly what you said.>> No, I just said that I don't care.

But I will monitor what my kids watch. You want to know what I won't allow in my house? Mary Poppins, Barney, Sesame Street, and all that other crap.

MOONCAT> <<Some say it takes a village to raise a child. Sorry, we are not a village. I'm not responsible for raising your kid. You are.>> BRAVO! BRAVO!

But hey, anything I can do to contribute to the decay of society.

Guess those supplies weren't so quick.

"You want to know the best way you can help your children? Leave them the f-ck alone!"
-George Carlin
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 09:12:49 AM
IP: 167.206.248.11

Current debate > Put me in the camp of people who think that parents who abdicate their responsibilities and then blame the media or society at large should be slapped. Or shamed. Or both. Am I saying put your kid under a microscope 24/7? No. But you can and should dictate in your own home, what is appropriate viewing and what isn't. When I was a kid, back in the stone age, I wasn't allowed to watch "All in the Family". Strangely, "Rowan and Martin's Laugh In" was permissible viewing. Both dealt with topical issues, but the way they dealt with them was completely different.

The point being is the folks dictated what I could and couldn't watch. Whether or not I chose to sit there and watch or go read a book was up to me after that.

I remember a few years ago when "South Park" came out there was a big flap about kids wearing tees and such with the characters on them. Schools were banning etc. and yet the clothes were flying off the shelf. So they went to the mall and they interviewed shoppers buying stuff for their kids. You know that half or better of those parents had no clue what the show was about? But Jr. despite being in the second grade, had a tv in his room and no lights out time and he watched whatever he wanted and then he demanded and got, the tie in merchandise. Is it wrong that they make the shirts in children's sizes? No. It is wrong that parents weren't making informed decisions about what was appropriate for their kids. So if some parent thinks it's adorable that their little precious wears hip huggers at age 4, it's not Brittany's fault, it's MOM's.

'Nuff on that.

Rahsaan, how about some of the classics LOL, ROTFLMAO, L8R?

And thanks for the nice plug for "What Tomorrow Brings"!
kathy
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 07:57:04 AM
IP: 216.175.74.35

Hi everybody! It sounds like everyone isn't enjoying the heat wave that was going around. Over here I'm still feeling chilly most nights until I warm up after wrapping myself under the covers. I doubt I'll need AC come summer time. Anyway not much happening here these days.

Ravyn> <A pay raise is being mentioned, and more flexible hours are definitely headed my way> Excellent! ^_^ <my own boss, but I'm not particularly in charge if anything goes truly wrong> Woo Hoo! Now that is a sweet deal. Congratulations! <say hi to Dreamie> She says hi right back! <look at her car> Sounds like fun. I miss taking time to figure out what was wrong with different cars. At the time I was learning about cars I had my Ford Escort so I got to put some knowledge to use for diagnosing problems. Oh well I have other things to work on now. ;)

Shadowrider> <things I can't let pass> Both Spacebabie and Jan have the right idea here. I certainly would not like to see you leave. Ultimately I think your feelings extend beyond that post. It is a combination of things. Why don't we talk about it via email, it's high time I wrote to you in any case... IT looks like I'll have to start with this post... :| <Too much studying, too little social life> What's a social life? It's odd to think how most of my friends are about 3000 miles away. I need to make more friends in the area. <I'd like to have a handful of hours more for each day> I've thought that too. Eventually I accepted being stuck with making the best use of the time I have. Damn. <say hello to Dreamie> I did. She says hi and hopes everything works out for you. :)

DPH> Cheers on your back pain subsiding to tolerable levels. Is there anything that could be done to permanently correct your back problems and remove the pain? Do you just need to keep up with your back exercises to be okay?

Amalthea> Welcome to the CR.

Vashkoda> Hi Vash. Dreamie says hey hey. ;)

Gunjack> I Agree. Provided there is no other feasible working alternative. It would act as a deterrent. I would prefer not to have any innocents harmed. However it may not be possible to properly punish all those that should be held accountable, whether directly or indirectly involved.

Dreamie> I love you. <kiss>

Well that's all for me. Time for bed. Good night.

Winterwolf
Seattle, WA
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 04:35:18 AM
IP: 12.231.21.127

Lurkingfush><<er.. i wasnt aware that it was socially unacceptable to wash dishes if you were an unmarried woman.. hmm.. maybe i missed that part..>> ...Or DID you!? o.O ...maybe THIS is your ratinale for always makin me do the dishes, and you just didn't wanna blow the gig! ; )
Gunjack Valentine
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 03:37:44 AM
IP: 192.133.129.4

no, i dont have a house, haircut, or a real job yet, but i DID buy some gargoyles comic books today.. for 2$... YAY CHEAP COMICS!!!! plus, lots of demona..

*waves comics in the general direction of impfac*

nayh!

i saw the funniest molson canadian beer ad on tv the other day.. even funner than the "had ex today?" ones.. it involved this canadian guy, drinking beer in an american bar. these two americans come up to him and start "aww, such a cute widdle canadian" and "wheres yer widdle pet beaver, EH?" so the guy whips out this *real* beaver from under his arm, puts it on the bar counter and says "right here, sick em, boy!" at which point the beaver (now a puppet) smiles, and attacks them like the psycho bunny from monty python's "holy grail" and the guy goes back to drinking his beer. yeah, i hate beer, but i have some serious appreciation for the creative team behind molson canadian and the whole "had ex today?" thing.

josh>> <<There couldn't possibly be a connection between advertising and NOT PISSING OFF THE PEOPLE YOU"RE TRYING TO SELL TO, could there?>> er.. i wasnt aware that it was socially unacceptable to wash dishes if you were an unmarried woman.. hmm.. maybe i missed that part.. anyway, i think you missed my point, which was that the OVER emphasis is whats silly. not the fact that its there.

siryn>> <<You spent a year studying this? What's your major? Sounds neat?>> whiny arts major. you know, the kind that teaches you be to be horridly naive, simple-minded, and completely unaware of the way things *really* are in the world around you. the course was "art and the mass media."

greg>> i dont think its fun for kids to cuss, though this is just from personal experience.. when i was wee, i went to kindergarten and learned some new words and started using them on the teacher and she dragged me kicking and screaming and comically grabbing onto doorknobs down to the principal's office where she threatened to have him cane me.. i think i was traumatized.. the psycho religious nutbar i had in second grade later shaped my opinions on religion, too. eesh.. :P anyway, why am i talking about this? i forget now, so ill stop..

moonkitty>> goooood anime. you should see it to the end if you have the chance. i should warn you not to watch it all in one sitting, though, as your brain might explode. perhaps *thats* why gunjack has been acting so funny ever since he met me.. he didnt listen and watched all 13 episodes in a row. hmm..

gunjack>> well duh! i strongly disagree! :P

"listen up brother and sisters, come hear my desperate tale
i speak of our friends of nature, trapped in the dirt like a jail.
vegetables live in oppression, served on our tables each night,
this killing of veggies is madness, i say we take up the fight!
salads are only for murderers! coleslaws a facist regime!
dont think that they dont have feelings, just cos a radish cant scream..

ive heard the screams of the vegetables (scream scream scream)
watching their skins being peeled (having their insides revealed)
grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
how do you think that feels?! (bet it hurts really bad)
carrot juice constitutes murder (and thats a reas crime)
greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables go!)
its time to stop all this gardening (its dirty as hell)
lets call a spade a spade

i saw a man eating celery, so i beat him black and blue,
if he ever touches a sprout again, ill bite him clean in two.
im a political prisoner, trapped in a windowless cage,
cos i stopped the slaughter of turnips by killing five men in a rage.
i told the judge when he sentanced me, "this is my finest hour,
id kill those farmers again, just to save one more cauliflower!"

*chorus*

how low as people do we dare to stoop?
making young broccolis bleed in the soup,
untie your beans,
uncage your tomatoes,
let potted plants free,
dont mash that potato!!!!
oh oh oh!!!!!

ive heard the screams of the vegetables (scream scream scream)
watching their skins being peeled (fates in the stirfry are sealed)
grated and steamed with no mercy (you fat gourmet slob)
how do you think that feels?! (leave them out in the fields)
carrot juice constitutes murder (v8's genocide)
greenhouses prisons for slaves (yes, your compost a grave)
its time to stop all this gardening (take up macrame)
lets call a spade a spade"

- arrogant worms "carrot juice is murder"
lain "please, give peas a chance!" iwakura
the Great White North
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 03:33:36 AM
IP: 64.228.193.52

Mooncat said - <<If a person can't make some time for his/her kid, what the hell right does that person have to call themselves a parent?>>

Impfac said - <<WRONG.>> (snip for space)

You mention 24/7, but I said SOME time, not every minute of every day. Give a kid a good upbringing and no matter what crap they watch, it's the upbringing that will have the most significance to their life.

If you think you kid will watch stuff you don't allow at some other kids house? Then *don't* let them go to that kid's house. Yes, who your kid gets to go visit is part of Parenting too. Too much work? Then you should NOT be a parent.

People shouldn't blame TV for not being your Mary Poppins and taking care of the little tykes for them. If you are so tired all you can do is turn on the TV and let it raise your kid, you do have the *choice* to tune in to 'wholesome' programming or pop in your Gargoyles tapes (unless too inappropriate) or something that is to your ideal of wholesome. B*tching about the evil of TV/movies/music and trying to scour anything suggestive or unwholesome from TV/music/movies just because you say you are too tired to use the off switch is a cop out.

So what if the Entertainment product is targeted to your kid's age group? Unless you **allow** your kid to watch stuff inappropriate for them, they won't get enough exposure to it to be a serious influence. ***Yes Parenting actually takes a little time and effort.*** duh.

As for what your kid will see walking down the street... shall we go all middle eastern and force our women to cover from head to to or be stoned to death? Sew shut the mouths of people who cuss in public? That'll keep the kids pure.

People swore and cussed in public before MTV, cable, and PG13 movies, and if you took it all away they'd still cuss. I was a tiny kiddie kid in the 70s, before ANY of that stuff, and walking to the corner Quick Stop to buy candy, I'd hear and see far worse REAL LIFE stuff then, than is on prime time tv today. Neighbors having domestic disputes so loud and violent the cops would be weekly if not daily occurence, teen girls with babies to feed and having to use food stamps to eat. Friends whose folks slapped them around or much worse. And what was on TV that would have contributed to this "moral decay" of society? Happy Days. Little House on the Prairie. The Wonderful World of Disney. Bewitched. I Dream of Jeanie. Sonny and Cher. Oh yeah, the evil influence of the scantily clad vixen and scorching lyrics like... "Babe, I've got you babe..." or the sound track to Grease, "You're the one that I want, hoo hoo hoo..." with Olvia Newton John in her teased hair leading the day's youth to destruction with her Aussie accent and John Travolta swinging his hips like he's got a Saturday Night Fever. Surely the root of all social evil leads back to Elvis, the Beatles, and them other destroyers of America's youth.

I was a teen in the 1980s, and the big boom of cable tv and Madonna, MTV, PG13 and all the things people seem to think brainwash kids into becoming degenerate sex fiends. But in the 80s, the problems that were part of real life were the SAME as they were in the 70s, except for AIDS which didn't come from the entertainment industry. The 1990s didn't discover teen pregnancy or invent child/spouse abuse, or a host of other misfortunes. They were there *before* cable TV, and they would remain if TV disappeared. Now it's the new millenia. If the entertainment industry fare offends you, ***don't buy the product***. Because that is what entertainment is. A product. Something for the consumption of the audience and dependant on the audience's interest. No one forces you to buy a TV set. No one sticks a gun to your head and says, buy cable and turn to the Spice Channel and put little Johnny JR. in front of it and make him watch stuff bad for him.

Some say it takes a village to raise a child. Sorry, we are not a village. I'm not responsible for raising your kid. You are. I don't want anyone else raising any kid of mine except myself, and my chosen mate. If I want to "put my feet up" then my little boy or girl will be properly entertained with viewing material of my choice, which will probably include cartoons and lots of science fiction / fantasy shows. And yeah, if it takes a few minutes to peek in during Prime Time to see what any kid of mine is consuming on a regular basis, I'll do it or simply use the VCR and have my kid run his or her viewing habits by me first. If he/she goes to a friends house, I'll be damn sure to have checked it out first, at least until they are teens, then I'll depend on what moral and ethical back ground I've instilled in them thus far to help them make the 'right choice' for those instances they have to make their own decisions -- and I'll *still* check up on them.

If after all that, my kid turns out rotten, then I'll know i wasn't lack of good parenting that did it. And I won't be blaming video games or the latest teen sex/slasher film either.

Hopefully, any kid I get to raise will be a good egg. Nothing in this world is sure, but I think good, and reasonably dedicated parenting is always a plus. After that, what will be, will be.

just my thoughts
Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 03:21:18 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Alright, finally got that pesky drug test out of the way. It was in this ghetto hospital in Oakland, too.

Hope they don't find anything. That would be a neat trick.

Took my second to last midterm today. Just one more next tuesday and its all over. Well, almost. Finals and final revisions of papers, but those don't count. Really.

replies

Lain: <<for those of you who know lain, and those of you who dont>>: Seek help. Quickly.

Patrick: <>: MTV2 now has *ads*. What is the world coming to? <<You're in rare form today. Keep up the good work>>: Thanks...to what are you referring? <<To read some vast thought control conspiracy into the advertising industry, IMHO, seems a bit far fetched>>: This is what feminists do to keep themselves occupied. When they're not cleaning the kitchen.

Siryn: <<Sneak peak at the purty badge designs>>: Beautiful. <<You spent a year studying this? What's your major?>>: Professional slacking, at the "Would you like fries with that" University. Lazy bum! Go do some work. (her, not you). <>: As I heard in a recent movie, you read what you want to read. If you want to see degredation, you'll see it. If you want to see beauty and love, you'll see that. That's the only justification for the existence of the English Major. <<hun, do you realize in your counter statement you just _proved_ what I was talking about earlier?>>: Yes, I do. What it also shows is that the claim itself is irrelevant. <<perhaps this isn't the best way to 'sell' things>>: *WRONG*. The best way to sell things is whatever gets the most units sold. If companies could legally blackmail you into buying stuff, they would. <<only 5% of women naturally have a 'supermodel' body>>: And none of them go to school here. And body isn't everything. How many of them have a decent face on their head? There are plenty of unattractive "supermodels", despite what the media says. <<the rest of us basically starve and exercise ourselves constantly trying to 'obtain' this>>: Well the other 95% are stupid (where have I said this before...). Look, at some point you need to be happy with what you've got or deal with it. I'm a scrawny dweeb. It's highly likely that I'll never be anything but that. In a few years, I may be a *bald* scrawny dweeb. I'm not in a gym every day or guzzling weight gainers by the bowl. <<Especially considering the amount of eating disorders.I heard an ad on the radio the other day, that really sickened me, "Do you want bigger breasts?">>: What does bigger breasts have to do with eating disorders? <<Now after I use _insert product name here_ I'm getting lots and lots of attention>>: Well some women are insecure with their bodies and want the kind of attention that comes from having large breasts. Maybe those women are about as vapid as your average 13 year old valley girl. <<if a guy solely wanted me because of how big my breasts were, that's not the kind of attention I would personally like>>: Then you'd ignore him. Lots of girls are *far* more shallow than you are. Guys too. <<which is taught by a happily married adult MAN>>: And he hasn't been sued for sexual harassment yet?! <<should a ad designer take the easy way out (babies, sex, or puppies) instead of thinking of something more creative?>>: try it this way: what inscentive is there to be creative? Do they make more money? Are their ads somehow more memorable? <<Do you know that less than 55% of familes are viewed as 'traditional?'>>: Thank you for making my point. 55% of families are viewed as traditional. That's 55% that you'll please with a woman who has a wedding ring on, vs. .00002% feminazis (hehe I like that word) who will be offended. <<women LOVE to clean and LOVE buying cleaning products>>: Bathroom monkey! <<the font for names should be big enough for you to read now>>: Yes, I can see them perfectly on my monitor ;-)

Greg X: << Not my problem. Not my responsibility>>: Until you get sued. <<look how I turned out?>>: Case in point. <<Speaking of eloquent responses, where is SJ?>>: One has nothing to do with the other ;-) <<That is why I never once brought a date home to meet my parents. Not once>>: My parents know that if they ever tried to embarass me in front of a girl...I'd be signing the inheritance papers the next day. <<Ever been to New York>>: Once. <<It's a perfectly fine name>>; If you say so. <<My son will be either Lucifer or Damien. My daughter, well that's a no-brainer... Demona!>>: Please don't reproduce. <<It is not the media's problem whether or not kids are influenced by what they broadcast>>: No, its the parents problem. But the media does have some effect. Its the parents responsibility to filter it for the kids. <<They didn't warp me, I didn't become a violent person>>: I disagree. Though you aren't physically violent that often, I know you spend a lot of time thinking about very harsh stuff. <>: That's up for debate. <<more well-rounded and less spoiled then these nuclear families>>: I'm not convinced that's true either, or that you represent...anything.

Spacebabie: <<Yeah I know I mailed the check and the registration form, but that was a bout a month ago and I still haven’t received a confirmation letter in my email>>: Here's a rocket scientist idea: call the staff. Email Siryn. Or just see if the check cleared. <<Josh is a slut?>>: This is the second time I've been called that. I want to know why I'm a slut. <<My brother calls me a slut even though I can still wear white to my wedding>>: I don't think anyone actually follows that rule anymore. Besides, to plan to actually be able to wear white to your wedding? <<Start what?>>: Porn. <<No I make them take turns as well>>: Good, cuz that's a bad image. <<Right and give more reasons for my brother to call me a slut>>: Does he read this CR? <<Wrong with us womenfolk you say “That took ovaries>>: No comment. <<What do you usually play with?>>: In Geotech? Dirt. <<Is there nothing these things can’t do?>>: Work all the time?

Jan: <<why should they have to do that when it’s just as simple for the networks to not put inappropriate programming on during prime time viewing hours?>>: Because the networks WANT to do that because THAT's what draws viewers and money. For parents to filter out dirty stuff or turn off the boob tube costs the networks nothing. <<He is passionate about this particular issue and just because he has chosen to say something about it, that doesn’t make him a drama queen>>: No it doesn't. The way he said it is what makes him a drama queen. <<This would eliminate such deception as when whitehouse.com or nasa.com ended up being a porn site instead of the *real* White House or NASA website.>>: I can think of several very good ways to get around that. <<Prime Time is considered until 8-9pm when children are still awake>>: Prime Time is until 10, actually. And no one forces kids to sit down in front of the TV. <<we do not intentionally bomb homes, churches and schools unless they are a possible danger to our own military personnel or a strategical target>>: Believe it or not, strategical is not a word.

Mooncat: <<The fact that there IS wholesome alternatives should be more than enough>>: This explains the grammar in your stories. <<mouths washed out with soap>>: I got lucky, that never happened to me. But my poor little bro... <<Parenting should be about exercising their choice of viewing habits, not about taking away the choice of what to view from everyone else.>>: Agreed 100%!

Hyperion: <<it's not really the person you thought it was but rather some random punk sitting at their computer?>>: You have to get good at determining people's personalities. It really freaks them out when you *know* they're not who they say they are. <>: I think they need to be there to protect the rights of everyone, including civilians. <<radiolytic>>: I don't think that's a word.

Gunjack: Neutral. Anyone bombs my starbucks, I'll kick their butt twice.

Sevarius Jr: <<snorting blow off some whore’s ass>>: Hey that was fun! <<show me naked boobies>>: Woohoo! All hail naked boobies! <<he was too cheap to order the good stuff?>>: Probably. He was an a-hole, after all. <<Titus isn’t going to be remembered for anything>>: Or at all. <<screw YOU, baby boomer generation>>: They deserve it too.

Greg X: <<Hey, I'm not saying that the media doesn't affect kids>>: Actually that's almost exactly what you said.

Christine: <<cooking naked is a BAD idea>>: And you know this...how? <<full-skirted frock, pumps, and pearls>>: That's not very effective for cleaning! ;-)

IMPFAC: <<Sure-but they’re going to be exposed anyway>>: True. But if the parents make it clear that the behavior is not tolerated in the house, they'll at least have some idea of what's to be expected of them elsewhere. <<interferes with parents ability to raise their children as they wish>>: BULL! Nothing is beyond a parent's ability to raise their child. My parents, for all their flaws that piss me off, were good at the parenting thing. Despite both of them working full time and then some, I had rules that I was expected to follow with punishment if I didn't. My parents closely monitored my TV experience. They let me watch cartoons at unreasonable hours of the morning, and at night I was watching stuff that they watched (probably explained my age 25 vocab when I was 8). I didn't have video games until I was about 10, and each video game I bought was carefully screened. My parents enforced parental controls on my internet experience. Now, I hated all of these things, naturally. It frustrated me to go to a friends house and see that they had unbridled rule of their world. But since I was young, my parents were able to influence how much time I spent with my friends. And when I got in trouble...boy did I get in trouble. Real groundings that lasted for weeks, none of this 'time out' bull. Parents *can* affect what their kids are exposed to, if they'd just take a few extra minutes each day to get involved. <<ads>>: Ads never caught my attention. I didn't realize they were selling stuff through sex until I was able to understand more about what sex was and why people cared (which was roughly...last tuesday ;-)). The fact that my parents didn't *try* to hide my eyes from some stuff made me care less. The other stuff, well, I didn't know what I was missing, just that I was missing stuff. Parents can be *fully* responsible for their kids. <<To say that makes them bad parents doesn’t sit right with me>>: It doesn't. What makes them bad parents is their lack of desire to spend their off time with their kids. <<How can parents possible screen everything their kids watch??? They cannot>>: They can. It just takes a bit of commitment. Maybe a *real* nanny who keeps track of what the kids watch during the day. Maybe controlling the cable box. Maybe just unplugging the TV during the day. It's not hard, and it doesn't take much thought.

Vashdoka: <<gl dd hf nr and bs>>: I know the first one...but what about gg?

Gside: <<I've heard rumors of them in ChemE>>: I don't think they count. << hear they've been supporting the Coalition for the Liberation of Itinerant Treedwellers>>: They *would* support the CLIT. <<Ever think about two at once?>>: They might not fit. <<Conduct>>: LOL!

Alright, time for sleep.

You make nice, and the pie is mine!
-Jay's Stomach, "The Critic"

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 02:26:06 AM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Imzadi> <<Supposedly, they're some sort of creature that isn't an engineer>>: I've heard rumors of them in ChemE.
<<They can clean the bedroom, too!>>: Yeah, the either makes it an xor.
<<You mean its not Liberate Apes Before Imprisioning Apes?>>: Nope, but I hear they've been supporting the Coalition for the Liberation of Itinerant Treedwellers.
<<none of them belong to any support groups>>: Well, I support their avoidance of support groups.
<<As usual, nothing>>: Good move.
<<You'll be blue>>: I'll probably have moved on to the more interesting greens and blacks of decay.

Spacebabie> <<Start what?>>: Oh, you know.
<<No I make them take turns as well>>: Ever think about two at once?
<<Wrong with us womenfolk you say ?That took ovaries?>>: They're still mostly spherical.
<<Is there nothing these things can?t do?>>: Conduct.

Taleweaver> <>: Check out the Jargon File. http://www.science.uva.nl/~mes/jargon/

SJ> <<Hot Spice all the way>>: What's so hot about a circuit description language?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:41:39 AM
IP: 198.151.130.133

Taleweaver> bbl, bbs, biab, afk, btw, fyi, imho, np, nm, ta, wb, lol, rofl, lmao...

and from playing Starcraft, I've learned gl dd hf nr and bs, but I'm not sure how applicable those are to your assignment. ;)
Vashkoda
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:27:39 AM
IP: 129.98.122.194

gunjack> strongly disagree, nothing more beyond as to why.
metaldemon
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:13:00 AM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Greg <<<<It is not the media's problem whether or not kids are influenced by what they broadcast. Not their problem at all, and they should not be held to it.>>>

Oh dear, I’ve got some problems with this. First, you’re right; it isn’t the media’s problem: IT IS EVERYONE’S PROBLEM. So we as a whole must deal with it.

<<<I'm sick of people blaming television for what kids do, or even just syaing it's a contributing problem. Don't like it? Turn off the television. Place it in a locked room away from the kids. Simple enough.>>>

Turn of the TV? Sure-but they’re going to be exposed anyway. What about when little Billy goes to a friends house, or gets on the internet, or is going down the street and sees an ad, etc etc? The fact is, the pervasiveness of this violent, sexy trash interferes with parents ability to raise their children as they wish.

<<<So, someone please take these "good, wholesome, family" values and flush them down the crapper. I think they'll be far more damaging to society in the long run. Hell, they certainly haven't helped society at all.>>>

*gasps* Well, now you’re just being... well, this is a PG room, right?

MC> <<<If a person can't make some time for his/her kid, what the hell right does that person have to call themselves a parent?>>>>

WRONG.

Monitering violence and sex in the media isn’t some part time thing: NO BODY could POSSIBLY do it, since there is just so much, and the media is everywhere. Do you even look around when you walk down the streets? You probably no longer notice the huge number of ads and what not surrounding you, but try watching for just ONE DAY, and you might be surprized at what you see.

Ditto for commercials (even on those so called family channels).

I’m not sure how you were raised or what your situation is now, but most parents don’t have 24/7 to devote to making sure their children don’t watch something objectionable. Raising kids isn’t easy. Sometimes mommy and daddy want quiet time-they turn to the TV. I don’t think that makes them bad parents-I think that makes them human. Parents have to work. They have to run their own lives. They’re people too. To say that makes them bad parents doesn’t sit right with me.

Perhaps if you ever have kids you’ll be more sympathetic to the argument. You’ll probably want to put you’re feet up once in a while, too-and I don’t think that makes you some awful person.

Parents are people-not super humans. You ask to much of them, I think.

OUR OBJECTIONS ARE SIMPLE: The media is TARGETING this stuff at children! The movie industry has been targeting R rated movies at teens for years. The execs have admitted as much. Same goes for violent video games, music, and entertainment. How can parents possible screen everything their kids watch??? They cannot. So it isn’t so much to lobby the media to voluntarily stop targeting children.

To act like this is some crushing blow to consumers is non-sense. We, the consumer, simply don’t want sex and violence designed for our children’s consumption.

Jan>>>Cussing> I find absolutely no humor in hearing children using vulgar language. *shrugs* but that's my opinion and preference.

Mmm. First time I hear the word #@$@ or $%$# (sorry to offend anyone in a PG room) come out of my kids mouth, I might chuckle, with a warning. Second time-WACK! Hopefully, that will be one of the last. Teaching kids they can be disrespectful like that gives them a mindset that doesn’t contribute to later success in life.

Gunjack> Strongly Agree. The rogue nations of the world cannot get away with terrorism.

Since Vietnam, people (like Bin Laden and Saddam) thought the US was weak and unwilling to fight. They thought they could act and we would do nothing. This was proven by Clinton when we KNEW Osama had murdered hundreds of Americans, as well as his home address, but did nothing.

Afghanistan has shown that this is a myth. We shouldn’t back slide on this principle-unless you want another WTC.

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 01:09:08 AM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Book news > it's done; I finished Truegold last night. 108,467 words. Felt like more. But it is done at last.

Fire Storm > cooking naked is a BAD idea ... and anyway, I thought when we cleaned we were supposed to wear a full-skirted frock, pumps, and pearls. ; )

Kid stuff > I spend some time every Friday in Becca's first-grade classroom and cafeteria, where I observe the kids (kind of like Dian Fossey <g>). It amazes me that there are some little girls in her class who are wearing those low-cut pants (hipsters?) and jewelry and nail polish. Seven years old, unbelievable. I'm glad Becca is a tomboy. I'd much rather have a kid whose favorite show is Fear Factor (okay, that probably doesn't exactly say sterling things about MY parenting ability, but ...)

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:21:26 AM
IP: 67.226.47.83

Mooncat & GXB make valid points about controlling what you can watch on television or not watch on television. Ultimately, we can decide what television shows get aired by not watching them and letting the ratings drop. They are enough "clean" satellite channels out there: Food network, TLC, History Channel, Biography - I am not listing all of them either. So what's the problem? Oh, you mean you don't like what is on the free television stations. Just turn it off. On the other hand, I'd hate to see public tv get too damn close to the Playbody channel.

GXB - <someone please take these "good, wholesome, family" values and flush them down the crapper.> Sorry, but I have already demonstrated that we have to some basic degree of "self-lessness" for society to surive and thrive.

Jan - That isn't my idea. Sadly, the idea of .xxx domain names got voted down by the people in charge. They questioned how it would be enforceable. Sorry, but that *particular* industry probably wouldn't have any troubles with the changeover, but it would drive the search engines nuts trying to update their registries. <How is your back doing?> Quite nicely. The chiropractor said he could tell I was doing back exercises. I am making a commitment to do back exercises every day so that should be strengthing my muscles. My next scheduled visit to the chiropractor is in 2 weeks and sometime after that, I get a re-evaluation from him. I'm looking forward to that re-evaluation.

My dad thinks I should stop my visits to the chiropractor if I am having to pay on my own. Moron. That would have ended at the beginning of this year.

Gunjack - grudginly agree.

What do you call a cat who wants to go inside with you and falls asleep in your lap?
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:05:57 AM
IP: 204.94.193.51

SJ> Hey, I'm not saying that the media doesn't affect kids. I'm sure it is a contributing factor, but I just don't care ;) <<What, he was too cheap to order the good stuff? Hot Spice all the way.>> It was about eleven years ago, I don't think Hot Spice existed then, if it did, it was not available in my area. <<And I’ve never raped or pressured anyone either. That I’ll admit to, in a court of law>> Yeah, I don't think we have the balls to be criminals. <<The point is, it’s all pretty tasteless.>> Well... Yeah! <> See, if I offend at least one person a day, then I'm happy ;) <<I’d go into one big huge rant about the continuing social & moral decay of our society thanks to the destruction of good, wholesome values (screw YOU, baby boomer generation), but I’m out of time.>> But I thought you liked evil fun?

GUNJACK> I strongly agree.

And now, for those who believe all sex has consequences, I leave you with this Carlinism.

"Sex always has consequences. When Hitler's mother spread her legs that night, she effectively canceled out the spreading of fifteen to twenty million other pairs of legs."
-George Carlin "Brain Droppings"
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:39:59 PM
IP: 216.179.3.15

Media & Kids today: I lie somewhere in the middle. On the one hand, I do think that a lot of the problems with kids today is because there are numerous pathetic human beings out there who are breeding and are raising urchin with no morals or manners, because they don’t want the real responsibility that comes with being a parent. So they stick their kid in front of a TV screen, let it be the babysitter, and then when the kid winds up snorting blow off some whore’s ass or gang banging or getting knocked up by their 13th birthday, they want to blame the Howard Sterns of the world cause people like him talk about things like sex. To those people, I paraphrase my hero, lil’ Jimmy Norton: I hope you die on your child’s wedding day. I hope your stupid heart bursts, and you fall face first into the cake, thereby ruining that special day for all time because you had to go and ruin the wedding by having a selfish stroke.

But conversely, if you totally take the idea that the media has no effect upon children, or that the responsibility is all on the parents…..you’re delusional. I’m against most forms of censorship in Hollywood; I say to hell with it, cuss all you want, be as violent as you can be, show me naked boobies if you want, I don’t care. But to act as if it has no effect upon impressionable young minds is ridiculous.

Now on to Greg.

<<My father decided the best way to teach me about the bird and the bees was to order the "Playboy Channel" for an evening and tell me to sit down and watch it. I never raped anyone or pressured a girl into having sex. >>

What, he was too cheap to order the good stuff? Hot Spice all the way.
And I’ve never raped or pressured anyone either. That I’ll admit to, in a court of law.

<<Kids cursing? To quote Eric Cartman; "What's the big deal, it doesn't hurt anybody." I hear little kids curse, and I don't think it's offensive, I think it's funny. My cousin Rebecca (33) has a four year old daughter (out of wedlock btw ;)) and when ever the kid curses, we're not offended, we find it quite funny actually.>>

Okay…..I’m not one to judge, seeing as I’m not a parent (nor do I want to be), but that’s not exactly something you should find amusing. 4 year olds with a potty mouth are funny on one level, but then again, so is laughing at an old person when they fall down the stairs. The point is, it’s all pretty tasteless. I mean, I curse all the time, but it’s not exactly behavior that I’m proud of. It’s a bad habit.

<< Gee, which are the better shows "Titus" and "Married With Children", or "The Brady Bunch" and "Leave it to Beaver"? "South Park" or "The Flintstones"? These are no-brainers to be sure.>>

I’m not a big fan of the Brady Bunch, Beaver, or the Flinstones, but this is really a pretty naïve statement, Greg. Titus isn’t going to be remembered for anything. Married With Children doesn’t stand up to the test of time (it’s tame even by today’s standards). And South Park is only good cause it’s offensive humor amuses us all. Brady, Beaver & Flinstones are classics, and rightfully so.

<<So, someone please take these "good, wholesome, family" values and flush them down the crapper. I think they'll be far more damaging to society in the long run. Hell, they certainly haven't helped society at all. >>

This is REALLY naïve. I’d go into one big huge rant about the continuing social & moral decay of our society thanks to the destruction of good, wholesome values (screw YOU, baby boomer generation), but I’m out of time.

But in closing, I’d like to say, I love you too, Shadowrider.

Sevarius Jr. - [sevariusjr@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:11:05 PM
IP: 207.172.11.147

Gunjack> ~strongly agree~
with the notation that we do not intentionally bomb homes, churches and schools unless they are a possible danger to our own military personnel or a strategical target.
Jan
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:34:09 PM
IP: 12.110.236.182

***ATTENTION****
***ATTENTION****
***ATTENTION****

QUESTION TO EACH MEMBER OF THE CR

...Sorry to interupt the media/pedophilia/whatever. For those who didn't notice, I've been having a stimulating discission with Hyperion about various aspects of war. What he's been saying has matched up remarkably with what I've heard from several other people I've debated this with.

So, in the interests of complete research, I'd like to take an informal opinion poll of the CR's members. Here's how it works. Please read the following paragraph, and answer with one of the following:

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree.

"As for the "we shouldn't prolong their suffering" argument; I'm back to the "war sucks, let's not do it" reply. With that reply, of course, is the thought that if we do go to war, we'll bomb you, you family, your school, your church, your favorite market, your kids, poison your air, your water, level your cites and generally make your life miserable for as long a possible. So, nations of the world, think long and hard before trying something stupid where the world's sole superpower is concerned."

No other comments are nescessary, though I'd certianly be interested in seeing them them. Your cooperation would be most helpful. Much thanks.

***ATTENTION****
***ATTENTION****
***ATTENTION****
Gunjack Valentine - [miphsingleton@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:20:00 PM
IP: 192.133.129.4

Mooncat and Greg> I'm not really disagreeing with you. I'm attempting to point out that TV does, in fact, have an influence on people and especially children. Mooncat has said (I believe repeatedly) that it has no effect or influence. *That* is what I've been trying to point out.
I whole heartedly agree that it's the parents' responsibility to teach their children right and wrong, but that's not what happens 100% of the time. Maybe in a perfect world, but I don't live in a perfect world. There really is truth in the old saying, "it takes a village to raise a child." Children need examples and unfortunately the only examples some children sometimes have are the ones in the tube. Sucks, sure.. but it happens... more than one would care to realize.
Prime Time is considered until 8-9pm when children are still awake.

Greg> I'm glad that you think it's cute and funny that your sister's children cuss. It's still not acceptable vocabulary in most of society, including school. It's tolerated a bit more in high school, but certainly not in elementary. I cuss on ocassion, but there's a time and a place for it and I, as an adult, know when to or not to - children do not. I find absolutely no humor in hearing children using vulgar language. *shrugs* but that's my opinion and preference.
Jan
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 09:58:40 PM
IP: 12.110.236.182

Don't you just hate it when you message someone in AIM or whatnot and it's not really the person you thought it was but rather some random punk sitting at their computer? Well I do.
Anyway...

DU> Ok, actually I think we should use weapons-grade urainuim so that the shell reaches critical mass on impact.
"Sir! Bunker at two o'clock!"
"Fire"
<Mushroom cloud>
"Heh. Bet they felt that. Put another one in there, just in case."
"Sir! Yes, Sir!"
Ok, not really. Basically, I don't believe in all this "polite rules of warfare" (Geneva convention, rules of engagement, that kind of thing) I'll point out here that I have no formal military training and the extent of my combat experience is a few fights, but I still have an opinion.
War should always be the very last option pursued. Forget all these "peacekeeping" and "police actions" we're so fond of. The military shows up, things should get real quiet, real fast. Now, before someone says "Well what about WMD?" Obviously, if the situation warrants it, yeah, I have no problem using NBC devices. However, due to the sheer destructive power of those weapons, there would be very few situations that those weapons would be applicable.
So basically, I say use the things. If something better and not a radioactive comes along, good for it. But when you get down to that end of the periodic table, there's not alot that isn't a radiolytic.
As for saying that DU rounds are a kind of WMD...well, I really can't agree with that, unless you are will to concede that a mine field is also a WMD. As it's also a "persistent chemical weapon". Obviously I don't.
Don't get me wrong, I think you make very good points and I'm enjoying this discussion very much, but I suppose I’m not exactly overwhelmed about an increase in radiation in an area. And I agree with whoever it was that said that info from Iraq should be consider suspect at best.
As for the "we shouldn't prolong their suffering" argument; I'm back to the "war sucks, let's not do it" reply. With that reply, of course, is the thought that if we do go to war, we'll bomb you, you family, your school, your church, your favorite market, your kids, poison your air, your water, level your cites and generally make your life miserable for as long a possible. So, nations of the world, think long and hard before trying something stupid where the world's sole superpower is concerned.
A quick case in point: Libya was sponsoring terrorists in the 1980s. We told Kaddiffi(SP?) "knock it off" he said, "Don't know what you're talking about! Honest!" So we bombed his house. Missed him. got his wife and daughter. Suddenly Libya wasn't launching anymore terrorist attacks.
Good? Bad? Evil? Moral? I can't say. I can say that we defended out interests and, from a nation-state point of view that's all that matters. Nations don’t' have friends or allies, they have interests.

Madre de dios, I got off the topic there. Oh well, I wrote too much to delete it all.

Media> The media is but one cog in a vast machine who's parts all feed in on each other. A simplistic summary:
Mass media creates demand and corporate interests fill it this leads to the demand spreading throughout society so corporate interest continue to fill demand. Meanwhilst, you have a breakdown of any kind of value system and an influx of relativism that causes authority figures to loose authority to not only combat a decline of moral standards but also making it difficult to even agree on when the line is crossed.
<hands soapbox back to Patrick> Sorry, I took this when you weren’t looking.

Ok, if I do anymore preaching I'm going to be ordained. Off to bed, or at least to play video games.

*******************************
Conversation following a friend walking out of a dark alley late at night
"What were you doing in there?"
"Getting mugged."
"Really. What happened to the other guy?"
"Nothing much." (Pulls out wallet, opens it)"He had a nice wallet. Ugly girlfriend, but a nice wallet"
Hyperion - [hyperion@justice.com]
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 09:25:47 PM
IP: 151.199.242.125

Bravo Mooncat!
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 09:22:46 PM
IP: 216.179.3.15

When Patrick said <<Too many people who preach about the evils of TV and the moral decay it has supposedly caused seem to forget that there's as many networks out there geared towards educating as there are those who seek primarily to entertain. So put the kiddies in front of a dinosaur special on Discovery for an hour>>

Jan said <<but so few parents do that. Besides, why should they have to do that when it’s just as simple for the networks to not put inappropriate programming on during prime time viewing hours?>>

Why should a parent monitor or direct their children's viewing habits? Well, maybe because that is part of PARENTING. Prime Time means that is the time when the MOST people will be viewing television, and that is not *just* children but people of ALL ages. Most adult people work 9 to 5 or close to that time period, and those Prime Time hours are the hours *they* get to watch tv before going to bed because they have to work in the morning.

TV is a luxury. Something a person can choose either to watch, or NOT watch. If you believe the programming is inappropriate for your child, you can NOT WATCH, or Change the Channel. Take a little effort? But it's Your Kid, not the Networks. If a parent can't take the little effort to take an interest in what their child watches In Their Own Home, what business do they have being a parent anyway? It is not the Television industry's obligation to elimate all choice of viewing so only shows suitable for very young children and reality impaired persons are available.

The fact that there IS wholesome alternatives should be more than enough. If a parent can't change the channel, or turn off the set, their kid is already partly screwed and it isn't the TV's fault.

There is so much out there for kids today that a parent can provide EASILY. A library card, videos of appropriate material, a little time each day simply interacting with your kid. And no, it's not an excuse to say "I have no time to spend with my kid."

If a person can't make some time for his/her kid, what the hell right does that person have to call themselves a parent? People expect the TV to be their unpaid nanny, and blame it if their kids act inappropriately, and that is what I think is totally bogus. When I was a young and impressionable kid, kids watched Madonna strut, stike a pose, say and do things that if any of us had tried to imitate, we'd have had our butts whipped and our mouths washed out with soap faster than you can say "You're grounded!"

Yes, a kid who has a parent who cares enough to Be A Parent knows the difference between what a person on TV can do, and what he or she is ALLOWED to do. Unfortunately, some kids don't have parents worthy of the title, but if a kid's parents can't be bothered to pay enough attention to how their young kids dress and act, or what they watch, then it's not the TV ruining a child's upbringing. It's the fact no flesh and blood person is bothering to give that child an upbringing.

Schools should educate. Parents should guide their children's lives and stand between them and what they are not yet ready for. TV has an off switch, and a gazillion channels of every possible type of programming. If you can't find your druthers on those channels, use the off switch.

Just for the record. No one holds a gun to a anyone's, especially a parent's head and forces them to have a TV, or make them turn on the Spice Channel, or Dawson's Creek, or even Barney while junior is glued to the couch.

Parenting should be about exercising their choice of viewing habits, not about taking away the choice of what to view from everyone else.

Just my thoughts
Mooncat >^,,^<
Mooncat
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 09:19:08 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

I said this before, though as a joke in my last post, but here I'm going to be serious about it.

It is not the media's problem whether or not kids are influenced by what they broadcast. Not their problem at all, and they should not be held to it. I'm sick of people blaming television for what kids do, or even just syaing it's a contributing problem. Don't like it? Turn off the television. Place it in a locked room away from the kids. Simple enough. Get them to read a god damn book, or just day dream.

I wasn't really censored from things. I was taken to see "The Silence of the Lambs" when it was in theatres, a long while back. I think I was nine or ten, when did it come out, "Terminator 2" also. They didn't warp me, I didn't become a violent person... though Hannibal Lecter has always been one of my heroes. My father decided the best way to teach me about the bird and the bees was to order the "Playboy Channel" for an evening and tell me to sit down and watch it. I never raped anyone or pressured a girl into having sex.

Kids cursing? To quote Eric Cartman; "What's the big deal, it doesn't hurt anybody." I hear little kids curse, and I don't think it's offensive, I think it's funny.

My cousin Rebecca (33) has a four year old daughter (out of wedlock btw ;)) and when ever the kid curses, we're not offended, we find it quite funny actually. Though my mother and my aunt don't... but they're way too old fashioned. And Rebecca is a good mother, a much better mother then 98% of other parents I've met, hell the kid's grandmother (an old fashioned moralist), was the one who spoiled that kid rotten, and Rebecca is slowly but surely undoing it. She doesn't need a husband or puritanical values to accomplish this. No "good wholesome" family values from her. And as I said, she's a great mother.

I come from a "broken home", and I think I turned out fine, more well-rounded and less spoiled then these nuclear families. My mother lives with a man she isn't married to, and he's a much better person than my father.

I like the fact that characters on TV aren't puritanical morons. Gee, which are the better shows "Titus" and "Married With Children", or "The Brady Bunch" and "Leave it to Beaver"? "South Park" or "The Flintstones"? These are no-brainers to be sure. Okay, so there is a lot of crap too, but the same can and will be said for every era.

So, someone please take these "good, wholesome, family" values and flush them down the crapper. I think they'll be far more damaging to society in the long run. Hell, they certainly haven't helped society at all.

Then again, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong. Probably not though ;)
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 08:31:17 PM
IP: 216.179.3.15

Mooncat> You’re right – sit-coms are for entertainment purposes and are not suppose to be taken as “real life”. However, it cannot be denied that they DO play an important influence on people. You are talking about adults who watch them for the entertainment value only – we’ve been talking about the influences that the media has on children. Impressionable, inexperienced children. These children have limited reasoning skills, prediction ability, etc. These sit-coms are telling children that it’s ok to sleep around with multiple partners, that having a child out of wedlock is not a difficult situation, that cussing is an acceptable vocabulary, and so on and so on. We as adults know the “real” truth behind the comedy, but these children do not. They see it all as an acceptable way of life. No, none of us want to be preached at when we’re sitting down and relaxing in front of the tube… but once again, we’re adults – we know the difference between fantasy and real life situations. We already know the consequences.
Media doesn’t have to preach to the children – but they also don’t have to show certain lifestyles or behaviors as being appropriate or condone it. Some of the best sit-coms of the ages never had most of the material subject that the ones these days have.
But shows definitely have an influence on the behaviors of children. There was a time when the Simpson’s first came out that anything related to the show was banned from a lot of the elementary schools. Why? because kids were showing the same disrespectful attitude towards adults as Bart was. The kids were also using the same phrases that Bart used. After receiving too many complaints, you’ll notice that the show has taken a slightly more respectable attitude. All media has taken a more liberal approach in the way material subject is presented and therefore we become desensitized to most of it. It’s no longer a shock to hear an actor say “damn, G-damn, ass, or son-of-a-bitch” during an episode or made for TV movie. This is not something that would have been tolerated 10 years ago. They slipped the words in and before long; it was common to hear it.
But as I’ve said several times before – it is not just the media… it’s only a part of the problem.

I commend you for your attitude on how you would educate your children if you had any or have them in the future. Unfortunately, there are not enough parents these days that are willing to take the time and effort to do that. It’s not fair to the school systems to expect them to “raise” the children either, but it happens. It becomes a situation of if they don’t do it, no one will.
<<But trying to *make* the entertainment industry responsible for educating people>> I don’t think they should be made to be responsible for educating people, but they still should hold some responsibility in what is presented to people.

As far as the “sexy clothing” of the elementary children – no, they don’t wear the body suits or what have you – but they do attempt to wear extremely inappropriate clothing for their age level and school environment.

Patrick> <<Too many people who preach about the evils of TV and the moral decay it has supposedly caused seem to forget that there's as many networks out there geared towards educating as there are those who seek primarily to entertain. So put the kiddies in front of a dinosaur special on Discovery for an hour>> but so few parents do that. Besides, why should they have to do that when it’s just as simple for the networks to not put inappropriate programming on during prime time viewing hours?

Josh> <<. You're being a drama queen, and its horribly unfair to everyone, even the admins.>> no he isn’t. He is passionate about this particular issue and just because he has chosen to say something about it, that doesn’t make him a drama queen. He has spoken the truth about a lot of things and apparently some people don’t like hearing that. He has said what a lot of people have been saying in private for a very long time. This is not a new complaint – I’ve seen it approached and asked about many times in the past but it’s always been ignored or brushed under the carpet. Or, they have chosen to redirect the blame to the one asking the questions of prejudice. Instead of being answered in direct manner, he was either given the politically correct up your butt answer or he was thrashed and insulted.

DPH> I like your idea of porn sites having to add some kind of code to their website addy. This would eliminate such deception as when whitehouse.com or nasa.com ended up being a porn site instead of the *real* White House or NASA website.
How is your back doing?

Shadowrider> *hugs* I’m truly sorry and saddened that it has come to this. I wish there was something that I could say that would change your mind. You will be terribly missed, my friend. *sighs*

A simple evection today turned into a real nightmare. These people had not paid rent in a year. They had 4 foster children living there too. After the renters left, the owners started checking around the property and they noticed a horrible odor coming from the barn. The deputies went to investigate and found 2 dead horses and 4 small (alive, but barely) ponies. Upon further investigation of the property, they located 17 additional horses – all close to death by starvation. I called DPS to verify that these people were on the Foster Parent list and did in fact have placements in their home. When they confirmed this, I reported the situation to them. The children will all be removed from their care by this evening.

Time to go to the Republican Club meeting : )
Jan
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 06:42:10 PM
IP: 12.110.236.73

I have something to say...just one, little thing. I don't like to have to say this, but it is necessary...actually, the necessity of this making everything more difficult. If anyone is reading this, please, read it to the end.

When I posted my reply to Greg, yesterday, I was extremely irritated. After two weeks of questioning, I had obtained what appeared to me as an attempt to make a fool out of myself. So appeared to me Greg Bishansky's post...just a silly verbal game, a variation of the old "it's not me racist, it's them who are [put in the name of the ethnic/religious/ideological group you don't like]" that so many used in the past, starting from Ku Klux Klan and prosecuting with Nazists, to arrive (unluckily) to our days. Appeared to me that my actual question had been ignored. As I said, I was irritated... and, probably, I was too harsh in what I wrote. Don't misunderstand me: I meant, and still mean, the meaning of what I wrote, yet I probably allowed my irritation to take over part of my control...something that never carries to anything good. I was expecting a lot of reactions from my post, but when I've read the replies that have arrived - I felt nothing. Just a great void, like nothing mattered to me anymore. It took me some time to realize why. When I started my (battle? crusade? No...these words are for greater and more important things), I was not sure of what I wanted to obtain. Or, better, I thought I knew. I thought I just wanted to be reassured that racism had no place in the CR, and that those who were going to put their hate in the CR itself were going to find no place to do so. But, when my question to the CR admins about this was ignored, I felt...betrayed, is probably the word. So, in my mind, a new objective added to the original one: to find out if these voices I used to hear, about the CR Admins being hypocrite and partial, were true or not. I thought I could find it out by putting the Admins before a precise, unavoidable choice of field. I eventually though that, if the worst of hypotesis was revealing to be true, I could force the Admins to admit their partiality and to change it. I illuded myself that what I was doing, was for the good of the CR itself. Actually, I was so sure of the correctness of my objectives, that I went with no hesitation on my path, and I didn't care for the suggestions of moderation that some people were sending me. Now, I realize I had made a mistake. A terrible mistake. In my arrogance, I had forgotten one dramatically important thing. I had forgotten that no change is possible if those, who are supposed to want it, don't care for it. I believed I could 'liberate' the people of the CR from racism and hypocrisy...but, now I realize, the CR people simply don't feel this need. May it be because I made a mistake of evaluation, seeing racism and hypocrisy were there was not any of them, or because those things are present, but the people in here don't care for it, I don't know any more, and, probably, it is not important. I was supposed to remember that every viewpoint is relative... and, most of all, that neither I nor anyone else has the right to impose his own views on anyone else...no matter how strongly one thinks to be right. I allowed my arrogance to blind my judgement, and I fought a battle that nobody other than me found necessary. I caused troubles and agitation in this CR, and this - for nothing. I made myself ridicolous, behaving like a troublemaker. Again, though, I wonder if I saw here things that there were not...you know, I really don't think so. I am quite sure of what I've seen...in my whole life, I've always trusted in my perceptions, that nefer failed to me. And, my points and questions were never really answered...but, again, it is not important anymore. Both if I was right, or wrong, I cannot remain in the CR. If I was right, and racism and hypocrisy are really present (or allowed, that is more or less the same) in the CR, but nobody other than me cares for it, then I cannot remain, cause racism and hypocrisy are things I cannot tolerate. If, instead, I was wrong, and I saw racism and hypocrisy where there are not, I cannot remain the same, cause the trouble I did is too big, and nothing justifies it. So, this is my last post in the CR. I am sad in writing this...more than I can say. I had hoped I was never going to write this. I am not going to put the blame on anyone else other than me...I created this situation, and now I must face the consequences. Neither I am leaving for something that anyone wrote to me. No, may this be clear, now and forever: my leaving now, is due only to my realization of the terrible mistakes I did.
I will never desturb again.
I...I just have one last request to do, to everyone...
Please, believe me when I say that, everything I did, I did it out of love and caring for this place and the persons who post in here.

I post below my email address one last time. If anyone will want to contact me, for anything, feel free to write me.

That is all. Now, and forever, I'm off.

"Io sono come Dio / E gli uomini li rifarei / Come ora / Occhi per non vedere / Bocche per non parlare / Meglio così"

"Se la terra è tonda / E se il mare è blu / Da che mondo è mondo / Il forte vince e non sei tu"

"Nessuno salvò nessuno con la spada"

"Tutto ciò che accade tu lo scrivi?"
"Tutto ciò che io scrivo accade."

"Goodbye, goodbye, I don't know why you say hello I say goodbye..."

Shadowrider - [shdwrdr@tiscali.it]
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 04:25:07 PM
IP: 62.10.3.19

Hiya peeps,

For those who may be trying to get ahold of me, my net service has squirreled up the e-mail accounts of it's subscribers state wide. So until they get their act together and let me get to my e-mail, I'm using a yahoo account to receive e-mail.

bastsgirl@yahoo.com

kay, gotta go do stuff.
later
MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat - [bastsgirl@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 02:55:35 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Greetings everyone,

Not a lot to say, but enough to fashion a post.

Help> I'm hoping the CR will help me with an assignment for Intercultural Communications. I am assigned to do a slang report and thought of using the shorthand used in comment and chat rooms. I know a couple of the basics BRB = be right back and TTFN = Ta Ta for Now. What others ones come to mind or you've seen others used.

In other news, if you're jonesing for a TGS fix might I recommend "What Tomorrow Brings" by Madame Destine. I'm much to cynical to gush all over the story, but it kept me reading with great character development and involving storylines. A very flavorful read.

Angel Review & Spoilers>
I felt lukewarm about it. One thing the pulled me out of the story was Angel's surprise that Fred & Gunn were dating. It made me realize that for us this has be stretched out over a month, in the story it's only been a few days. Gunn making a Faustian deal for a truck fell flat with me. I could believe that Gunn would make such a deal and how he reacted was spot on, but for a truck, in LA? And I can't help shake the Zoolander thing with the Grusolug (sp?)

I did like Angel coping with the lost of Connor. It was good that it was handeld in an understated way in contrast to last week's. Cordellia's become the heart of the group. And I loved the card deal towards the end. Fred is always a delight. An intelligent hottie to the nth degree.

I am curious what Wesley will do now. I'm also curious as to what Angel Investigations will do now. Wesley was the brains of the outfit. No bad on Fred, but when it comes to dealing the occult, Wesley's your man. How both handle being apart will prove interesting.

Well, I have to split. If anyone has some CR shorthand, please don't be shy. Thanks.

Rahsaan
Taleweaver - [loremaster27@hotmail.com]
Pomona, CA, USA
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 02:24:37 PM
IP: 134.71.41.95

Lights candles in honor of Mara sama and places a do not disturb sign in front of the chair Mara-sama is sleeping in.

I’m beginning to wonder If I should forget about going to the Gathering. Yeah I know I mailed the check and the registration form, but that was a bout a month ago and I still haven’t received a confirmation letter in my email. When I registered for 2000 I received confirmation about a week later. I don’t want to fly all the way up there and found out I’m not even on the list cause the idiot mail lost my letter.
So if you have my registration please send me an E-mail. LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com
Sorry if I sound a little B!tchy
But I need to know this and my brother pushed my buttons again.

______________________________________________________________________Angel Spoilers. Pretty good ep of Angel. Cordy’s back with the Groosalugh and her hair…OMG what did she do to her hair?! Good development on Gunn and Fred. Fred really is smart seeing through that dumping. Cordy has good speed and a good aim. Pretty good episode.

______Spoilers End.________________________________________________________________

Mooncat >>> Whats your e-mail addy? Send me an E

Crzy<<<Not everyone in the world is a slut like Josh.>>> Josh is a slut? My brother calls me a slut even though I can still wear white to my wedding.

Gside<<<Early class tomorrow. Note to self: start with Spacebabie>>>::Unsucsessfully trys to rais an eyebrow like the Rock::: Start what?<<<Both at once? I'm impressed>>>No I make them take turns as well.

Josh<<<Where's SJ? This debate is right up his alley.>>>I know I need a reason to get those handcuffs.<<<Not all of them, and sometimes not for years afterwards>>>but the majority of them do even if it does take years.<<<We've spent way too much time lately talking about your breasts. Continue.>>>Right and give more reasons for my brother to call me a slut.<<<If my crotch started singing...I'd check into Betty Ford. >>>Or maybe go on Letterman for stupid human tricks.<<<That assumes you're planning on it.>>>Yes I am.
<<<I'll be shocked that you've grown some balls.>>>Wrong with us womenfolk you say “That took ovaries”<<<Today in Geotech we played with condoms.>>>What do you usually play with?<<<Used them as membranes around soil samples, because apparently at that size its the cheapest and strongest membrane available. >>>Is there nothing these things can’t do?

Revel<<<drawings/hentai- they're drawings for God's sakes, now you are bitching for the sake of bitching. >>> A-men

Jay<<<whatz up? >>>The sky.

Jaden<<<I'm starting to get a real pain in my back which sucks big time. >>>I’m sorry my brother has started to visit you…Seriously I hope your back feels better.

Sits in front of Mara’s chair and starts to polish Threnody and the goblet of Peace.
Spacebabie The Mara no Miko - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:16:41 PM
IP: 67.25.51.122

Lain -- Nice Link. I remember watching the anime (or do I?) but I only got two thirds through the series before I started missing anime meetings. (~_~);; heh...

Now it's available on commercial DVD/tapes, and subtitled, which helps enormously. Someday I'll have to rent/borrow/download a copy to watch all the way through. It was interesting, but not really the kind of anime series I buy. Noir though, that I'll have to get a pro/commercial set of someday.

okay, back to my so called reality.
later
MC
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:07:09 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Wow, the CR has been interesting lately.

::Goes into George Carlin mode::

Teen sex, STDs, abortion, etc, etc, etc> Hey, I'm all for it. I'm the kind of guy that finds misery, pain and death to be forms of entertainment. Yes, while listening to George Carlin (and then shortly converting to Carlinism), I also discovered why I was put here on this Earth: Entertainment. I just like the idea of a lot of people dying, or ruining their lives, I think it's fun, exciting and entertaining. So are all those who preach againt it, that's entertaining also.

I want to someday get into the entertainment industry, make movies. I assure you that they won't be good, clean and wholesome. I don't care if some dumbass parent doesn't monitor their child and the kid walks away from it with bad influences. Not my problem. Not my responsibility. Entertainment, that's what life is all about. And hey, if I can contribute to the decay and eventual collapse of society, then what the Hell? ;)

Besides, I was taught sex-ed in school and they passed out condoms, and look how I turned out?

::Switches Carlin-mode off::

SHADOWRIDER> Mara and Josh provided good responses, far more eloquent then I could.

Speaking of eloquent responses, where is SJ?

MARA> <> I think we all do, maybe not all, at least some of us do. <<Teens will do what teens will do.>> Damn right. <<Too many, no accounting for taste.>> Yuck, I hate these Britney Spears wannabes. <> So, anyone Hell's latest ice show? "Lucifer On Ice"! <> It really is, I've been reading it for years. <<On the other hand, Grizelda wont be burdened by the Cliche kid-in-the-tub photo that everyone has one of and is embarrassed with when your date meets your folks.>> That is why I never once brought a date home to meet my parents. Not once. <<<<Peace, Love, Dope.>> <<Now THAT's what we should be selling. >> I can provide at least one of those things.

IMPFAC> <<To pretend the media has no impact whatsoever is just silly, and irresponsible>> Yeah, isn't it great? The decay of good wholesome values. Always been a personal goal of mine. When I break into the industry, it'll be even more fun. <<Imperial Fascism>> See, I just believe in Despotism, as long as I'm the despot.

JOSH> <<Where do you get these names?>> Ever been to New York, these names are just floating around in the air. <<<<Grizelda>>: You'd name your poor child that?>> It's a perfectly fine name, better then names like Britney, Kelly, Courtney, Amanda, etc (no offense to anyone in here who shares these names). My son will be either Lucifer or Damien. My daughter, well that's a no-brainer... Demona!

Gotta get to class.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 09:57:24 AM
IP: 167.206.248.11

Gathering update! Sneak peak at the purty badge designs for this year!

Patrick> Actually, I'm currently taking a class for my minor/concentration in anthropology and sociology. It's very interesting. It's called "The Changing Family". We were talking about American society gender roles and how they are 'reinforced' in society. The media isn't the only factor, its just one of them. I just brought up the magazine ads becuase there _are_ those hints there. ;) And men get no where NEAR the amount of 'ad attention' that is out there.

Now, I didn't agree with all the points the woman made in the video, because I do strongly love some ads (included the dismembered ones, saw a AWESOME one the other day)

But anyways, yes Sex does sell, that is not the point, it's the portrayel of women as compared to men in the ads to 'sell' a product that was the point of the topic. ^_^

It's just one of societies latent reinforcement of gender roles (we usually don't even realize we're doing it most of the time either!) :)

Lain> Feminazi? heh..not quite..^_^;; You spent a year studying this? What's your major? Sounds neat?

Re men and women power roles> That's true, I found an ad the other day (after watching this movie, I got out old ad scrapbooks and looked through them) with a women looking down at a man and a man looking up. (same race) so that was interesting. ^_^

>>objectifying yes. less human? im not so sure about that.. but woman are often portrayed as "closer to nature" because of the intuitons they are said to have.. i suppose these "instincts" make them somehow more primitive? more so than less human, i think. >>

*shrugs* I didn't totally get that point of hers either. In some cases, I thought she was reading into ads a bit TOO much..like I mentioned with patrick though I do love artistic and unique qualities of certain ads aswell, so its kinda hard to not to not like them. ;)

<<nah.. in the ones ive seen, usually they set these ads indoors, making it less threatening as though the woman is familliar with the man. >>

Really? I've only seen outdoor ones? But I do admit the indoor ones WOULD make it less threatening.

Josh> *blinks8 Um..hun, do you realize in your counter statement you just _proved_ what I was talking about earlier? ~_^

>>Here's a shocker for you: THATS HOW YOU SELL THINGS. Tell men "if you buy this product you'll date supermodels" and tell women "if you buy this product you'll *BE* a supermodel". <<

See, the point of the film was, perhaps this isn't the best way to 'sell' things.

Note: only 5% of women naturally have a 'supermodel' body..the rest of us basically starve and exercise ourselves constantly trying to 'obtain' this.

Especially considering the amount of eating disorders.I heard an ad on the radio the other day, that really sickened me, "Do you want bigger breasts?"etc..went on to a woman going on saying "Now after I use _insert product name here_ I'm getting lots and lots of attention."

What's disturbing is..personally if a guy solely wanted me because of how big my breasts were, that's not the kind of attention I would personally like..and its just disturbing that some ads make us feel we HAVE to look like barbie, or have DD breasts just to be happy and feel confident about ourselfs (as women).

But anyways, it's interesting learning in the class (which is taught by a happily married adult MAN) about the gender roles of especially our society, and since we were talking about sex and our current sexual norms of society, I thought I would throw the magazines in. ^_^ Again, I kinda _like_ some ads that I think are unique, but seeing the film certainly makes you think. But again, sex DOES sell, but should a ad designer take the easy way out (babies, sex, or puppies) instead of thinking of something more creative? ;)

<did you ever notice that most every ad on tv that uses a woman to advertise a baby product or cleaning product shows the woman wearing a wedding ring?>>: Did you ever notice that LOTS of people consider birth out of wedlock to be a MAJOR sin? There couldn't possibly be a connection between advertising and NOT PISSING OFF THE PEOPLE YOU"RE TRYING TO SELL TO, could there?

What if the woman is divorced? Do you know that less than 55% of familes are viewed as 'traditional?' (not to mention, those 55% also include people who have remarried). ;) (of course, it IS an ad, but these things are interesting, and laughable at times, for example, seeming to point out women LOVE to clean and LOVE buying cleaning products. I don't MIND cleaning..but it certainly isn't something I LOVE to do. ;)

I just *LOVE* the Women Rebock ads (now of course, guess what, that's doing the same thing BACK to men as it's been done to women, so technically its not the _best_ sort of ad, but it gets my attention because its different. ^_^)

Anyways, gotta run to class, ttyl!!

Josh> Also, just so you know, the font for names should be big enough for you to read now. ^_^

Siryn
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 08:45:45 AM
IP: 204.210.159.71

Mooncat > Excellent points on entertainment versus education. I don't watch copious amounts of television. I have a few shows that I regularly follow and dead Saturday afternoons are about the only time I will sit and randomly channel surf. I'm probably not the only tv viewer who would stop watching altogether if all I had to look forward to no matter where I tuned my dial was being preached at by the programming. If I want mindless comedy, I'll watch "Who's Line?" or "The Simpsons" If I want some fantasy entertainment, I'll go to "Gargoyles" or "Trek." If I want to enrich my mind, I'll go to PBS or move up the cable dial to the Discovery or History Channels. Too many people who preach about the evils of TV and the moral decay it has supposedly caused seem to forget that there's as many networks out there geared towards educating as there are those who seek primarily to entertain. So put the kiddies in front of a dinosaur special on Discovery for an hour, instead of letting them watch Britney give fashion tips on MTV (I still remember the days when the M stood for music, incidentally, and they actually played some occassionally).

Josh > You're in rare form today. Keep up the good work. :)
Siryn > The purpose of advertising is to sell stuff. What kind of advertising is driven by the preferences of the target audience. In America, sex sells. To read some vast thought control conspiracy into the advertising industry, IMHO, seems a bit far fetched.

Besides, we all know the people who really control the entertainment and advertising industry are the Illuminati. ;)

:: lurks off to work ::
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 07:14:14 AM
IP: 66.72.201.84

this.. is *REALLY* good..

for those of you who know lain, and those of you who dont.
lain iwakura
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 05:50:29 AM
IP: 64.228.198.242

Sweet, I'm finally enrolled in classes. Advanced Structural Analysis (aka writing computer programs to solve structures for you), foundation engineering, and computer aided engineering. I have to add one more course, but because of UC Berkeley's stupid enrollment system I have to wait until july or something.

At least one of my classes has no final 8-)

Today in Geotech we played with condoms. Used them as membranes around soil samples, because apparently at that size its the cheapest and strongest membrane available. How they got a condom to last through these strength tests without snapping is beyond me.

I got an email from GE asking why they didn't have my drug test info yet. The first response that came to my head: "I'm trying to get sober first!"

My actual response: "I was gonna take it next month...but I'll be happy to accelerate the process".

Lila: <<Sleep. Dream. Dream turns to nightmare, wake screaming, get mocked in morning by suitemates that I must have been getting amazing play last night... grit teeth>>: Whoa. And I thought I had issues.

Hyperion: <>: Eh, irregular heart rhythm never killed...oh, nevermind. <<we use it because it's the heviest damned thing we can make bullets out of and given todays armor technology we need to get through whatever they wrap tanks in anymore>>: The fact that air friction causes it to burn isn't a consideration, I'm sure... <<if you didn't make us use it, it wouldn't be a problem>>: We should be using other tankbusters. Killing I don't have a problem with...I just don't think its a good idea to be poisoning people's soil and air.

Revel: <<How do we get on these subjects?!>>: It all starts when some jerk posts a news update on some law.

Shadowrider: <<The revered Admins have finally deigned themselves to try an answer to my repeated question>>: The tone of the statement alone makes it seem like you're trying to draw attention to yourself. <<the analitical part of my personality is insistently wondering about 'why' they decided to answer me just now>>: I made them do it. <<by the way, implying, so, that I am a troublemaker who is making a mess out of nothing>>: No. It is statements like this, made by you, that suggest that. <<by trying to deny that what he wrote can be offensive at all>>: That's not what they were denying. They were denying that the nature of how it offends is indicative of behavior in this CR, and that what he said even warrants the attention you're giving it. SJ is sitting back right now and laughing at you (I know, because that's what I do when I post something that gets someone angry). If you want to take power away from stupid people, then ignore them. You're being a drama queen, and its horribly unfair to everyone, even the admins. <<the CR rules are applied differently from person to person>>: Look, the admins are human. Some things they'll brush off, some things they won't. <<If these are the results, then you'd be better to discuss with a mirror...you'll save time and money, and for sure you won't do worse>>: Are you saying that just because two people came to the same conclusion on one issue, the discussion was a waste of time? <<A warning?>>: That's exactly what its supposed to be. <<I've never flamed to anyone>>: Its not a warning to you. No one expects a flame from you. It's everyone *else* they're worried about. <<You know what, people? I'm tired. Tired of this situation>>: I don't think you're gonna collect any pity from this crowd. It sucks, yeah, but there comes a point when you start to drag attention to yourself and no one wants to give it to you. <<plus it's full of girls>>: I've heard of those. Supposedly, they're some sort of creature that isn't an engineer. <<for example, the need for sleep>>: Sleep is included in the 10 hours I refuse to use.

DPH: <<We have a smart lurker>>: call cnn! <<That way you could easily exclude them when doing searches for things>>: Right, just like using "ADV" in the subject of spam will effectively help americans filter it out. <<we are eliminating big destroyers and switching to aircraft carriers>>: Destroyers are big, expensive, and ineffective. Cruisers are better. They're small, fast, and carry cruise missles. <<why don't scifi shows set in space feature large ships carrying lots of smaller ones? Or is it that in space, we want big destroyers?>>: Because they carry huge frikkin' laser beams.

Siryn: <<Next time you look at a magazine>>: Don't you think you might just be reading a bit too much into magazine ads? <<ads that strictly focus on one part of a woman's body? (ie chest, legs, etc)>>: Here's a shocker for you: THATS HOW YOU SELL THINGS. Tell men "if you buy this product you'll date supermodels" and tell women "if you buy this product you'll *BE* a supermodel". That's how it works. <<making them where animal skin prints to make them less human>>: Oh come on. Girls wear those things because they think it makes them look good. Personally, I find animal prints to be revolting, but lots of my friends think that seeing a girl in animal print is really hot. <<what are mostly on women's minds are either cleaning or boys (or even sex for that matter?>>: And if not, why not! No, just kidding. But you have to remember that there's a reason for that too. Sex sells. And people looking at those products need to think, for whatever reason, that its what women are thinking about. Hell, if I honestly believed that owning some product made women think about sex...I'd own 10. Fortunately, my mom is a bigwig in the advert. industry, so I know better. But that show is making a mountain out of a molehill...which of course is how you get VIEWERS.

Gunjack: <<innocent Country B is now covered in DU dust>>: They should stop being weak, get off their lazy butts and get jobs.

Mara: <<Dicky Freebush...Pearl Boatman>>: Where do you get these names? <<In a perfect world. I got married at 20>>: No one is impressed. <<Grizelda>>: You'd name your poor child that?

Fire Storm: <<all women should be at home naked>>: Not naked. There are some ugly women out there, and they should be clothed. << either cooking, cleaning, or in the bedroom>>: They can clean the bedroom, too!

Lain: <<yes, mr smartass josh "imzadi" wurzel (not with a "t") i AM going to say that. so nayh>>: Please do. I'll be shocked that you've grown some balls. <<they give me free food cos i bank with them>>: And because if they don't you'll die and you won't be able to give them your $30. <<guess i aint a *real* woman>>: I will refrain from comments. As to you and Siryn, I really think you people read way too much into this stuff. <<did you ever notice that most every ad on tv that uses a woman to advertise a baby product or cleaning product shows the woman wearing a wedding ring?>>: Did you ever notice that LOTS of people consider birth out of wedlock to be a MAJOR sin? There couldn't possibly be a connection between advertising and NOT PISSING OFF THE PEOPLE YOU"RE TRYING TO SELL TO, could there? <<want the filthy arabs to cut our throats and rape our women?>>: But that would be degrading to women! <<crzy *AND* sj hate me.. i didnt think this was humanly possible>>: Its amazing how easily you can piss some people off.

Gside: <<Lesbian And Bisexual womyn In Action>>: You mean its not Liberate Apes Before Imprisioning Apes? <>: Of course. Engineers don't have time for such non-sense. There are a *lot* of gay engineers here (hey, its Berkeley)...and none of them belong to any support groups. <<don't ask about the choice of which letters got into the acronym>>: When they asked each other what a "labwia" was, they got answers ranging from "nickname for laboratory" to "spice from Israel" to "that funky drug that's all over the Euro rave scene". <<Well, you won. What did you bet?>>: As usual, nothing. <<Big honking guns are fun>>: Especially if they actually honk. <>: You'll be blue.

Impfac: <<limousine liberals-who will never be the victims of a crime in their life-are trying to take away our guns>>: They're not the only ones. <<When did a teen sex icon last get an STD or AIDS on the sitcom?>>: That's it! That needs to happen all the freakin' time on TV, then kids might not think its such a great idea. <<No, but news reports, books, and the accounts of soldiers from both sides are>>: Yes, but you refered to the movie. <<You want thousands of dead American soldiers instead?>>: Absolutely not. But there are other weapons we could have used. War is war, and killing is necessary. But the use of certain weapons is unreasonable.

Jaden: <<All I've been seeing lately is re-runs and I was getting bored>>: Showtime showed a few new eps recently. Probably the last 4-7 were new.

Finished my project management paper...now I'm going to sleep.

I didn't ask to be Secretary of Balloon Doggies. The balloon doggies demanded it!
-Franklin Sherman, "The Critic"

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenuts.com]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 03:10:33 AM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Impfac -- <<How often, for every teenage hookup children view on TV, does someone get pregnant (ending either in an abortion or a grueling sacrifice for the women,physically and emotionally)? When did a teen sex icon last get an STD or AIDS on the sitcom? RARELY. This helps SHAPE (not set in rock-that isn’t what we’re saying) views and ideas, which influence action.>>

I think you are forgetting the reason people watch sit-com shows. Sit com is short for Situation Comedy, and people watch them for light entertainment. People watch them for fun and amusement, not to be preached at. As for pregnancy angst, that is what Afterschool Specials and Dramas are for. And yeah, dramas and soaps and even FAMILY oriented sit coms and those type of shows drag in the almost obligatory teen pregnancy or teen pregnancy scare.

It's not the entertainment industry's (note the word ENTERTAINMENT) duty or obligation to teach people about sex and consequences. Rock stars or movie idols are there so people can tune into them and be eased and entertained by the performance. Education is the responsibility of EDUCATORS (including PARENTS) and not that of the Entertainer.

Some entertainments do include 'real life' messages though, but not out of obligation, but because it makes a good entertainment. Others are totally airy fantasy. But either way, what you see is dependant on what the consumers/viewers want to see. If they wanted to see angsty teen pregnancy drama, then we'd be seeing it every episode of just about every show on the air. But people don't want to watch that kind of thing in huge doses. TV could suddenly decide to put teen pregnancy and sexual disease messages in every show and episode they air, and the audience would Quit Watching the Show.

Let's pretend Angela is 15/16 biologically, and to be "responsible" Disney hosts a "special Gargoyles episode" where she has sex with another teenage or older gargoyle or human. Oh no! Angela gets a gargoyle equivalent of AIDS and dies in a visually horrible and graphic manner. Now, that's responsible and educational as all get out, but who here wants to watch that special little episode? Or have their kids watch it? Not me. Not when I was a teeny bopper, and not today.

There's this thing called free will. Most people use that free will to chose to watch the entertaining show. Few if any people, especially the teen audience, chose to watch the preachy show. We get "sexy" situations on tv because that's what we, as an audience, will tune in to see. And that's the long and short of it.

That's why I think sex education and real life responsibility and consequences should be part of grade school all the way through highschool curriculum. Education is vital. But trying to *make* the entertainment industry responsible for educating people is not going to work. If it's not entertaining, then it isn't entertainment. If it isn't entertainment, you lose the whole 'influence the masses' wave you are trying to ride.

Brittany Spears (sp?) could do her performances dressed in drab clothes deliberately shapeless to obscure any visual impression of her body, and sing songs about abstinance until she loses her voice. Are teens going to say, 'wow, I'm going to dress in shapeless drab clothing like Brittany and keep my legs locked together until I'm married!", or are they going to say "she's lost it" and change the channel until they find a sexy looking teen singing about boys/girls and getting them/losing them, can't live without them/etc?

Food for thought.
Mooncat >^,,^<
Mooncat
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 02:38:45 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Hey everyone, how's the beginning of your week ben? I'm starting to get a real pain in my back which sucks big time.

Imzadi- Thanks, I was wondering about SG-1. All I've been seeing lately is re-runs and I was getting bored.

Christine- Those squirrels may look cute but they are EVIL! Just wait until you turn your back and they'll take all your food, drinks, and rubberbands. ;P Congrats on the DVD player. There much better than VHS.

Well I was going to make a longer post but I'm tired now.
Later.

Jaden - [jaden1444@aol.com]
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:39:10 AM
IP: 172.194.155.226

Tim <<<Just remember that when they're looting your home or business or assaulting your loved ones, say, "Thank you Senator Fienstien!">>>

DAMN STRAIGHT! I’ve been an NRA member since I became politically aware-the only such group I’ve actually joined-even though I don’t own a gun. I can’t tell you how upset it makes me that these limousine liberals-who will never be the victims of a crime in their life-are trying to take away our guns. What hypocrites and fools.

MC> <<<Porn and consequences - I think true pedophile porn involving real children is absolutely wrong. However I think artwork and other 'virtual' depictions that do not involve real life kids should not have the same onus/penalties are real life pedo-porn.>>>

Absolutely. UNLESS-consent is not give. I think it would harm a child if there likeness was altered into a pornographic picture. But that is a civil-not criminal-matter.

As the court as ruled, as child pornography is a intimate part of child abuse, the production and distribution can be banned. Further, because the minor pictured in the act is damaged by the distribution as a living record of their abuse, the image can also be banned. Constitutional unfree speech-as it should be.

I think you’re looking at what people are saying about the media on too simple a level. No one is saying Brittany Spears, nor a desire to dress like her, causes promiscuity. Instead, we’re saying that presentations of promiscuous sex in all facets of the media to children too young to understand what they are seeing contributes to a world view were promiscuous sex is not only fine, but without consequence.

How often, for every teenage hookup children view on TV, does someone get pregnant (ending either in an abortion or a grueling sacrifice for the women, physically and emotionally)? When did a teen sex icon last get an STD or AIDS on the sitcom? RARELY. This helps SHAPE (not set in rock-that isn’t what we’re saying) views and ideas, which influence action.

So no, the media isn’t CAUSING bad behavior-but it is contributing to it. To pretend the media has no impact whatsoever is just silly, and irresponsible.

Josh> <<Remember what those 14 year old Somalian boys were carrying? They weren't teddy bears, they were Soviet designed AK-74's. And they were pointed at our Rangers>>: Movies are not good reference material>>> No, but news reports, books, and the accounts of soldiers from both sides are. It is widely known children of all ages, many younger than 14, were used as soldiers.

Iraq: I don’t believe ANYTHING I heard about Iraq. When someone says we’re starving them with our sanctions, I retort that no matter how much food they have, their dictator would continue to withhold food just for the political leverage.

The weapons worked. You want thousands of dead American soldiers instead? I don’t. Admittedly, what we did makes me queasy-but I don’t think we’re villains.

Okay, off to try for some sleep-hopefully.

Imperial Fascism

Impfac - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Monday, April 22, 2002 11:57:53 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Spacebabie> <<Lefty and Righty>>: Both at once? I'm impressed.
<<If he doesn’t fall down then he’s a weeble>>: Because weebles wobble, but the don't fall down. Of course.
<<I’m an English major :P>>: Exactly. Humanities.

Imzadi> <<but does anyone remember the name of the space mission where the failure to land was caused by lousy unit conversion?>>: Mars Climate Orbiter. http://exn.ca/Stories/1999/10/02/01.asp
<<No, but it definitely lands you a spot in this CR>>: It's how I got mine.
<<That's a horrible image>>: Thank you. And for the record, LABIA is an actual organization here, Lesbian And Bisexual womyn In Action. I believe they're all humanities majors, so don't ask about the choice of which letters got into the acronym.
<<Wow, you were a bigger geek than I>>: Thank you for the compliment.
<<I'm not gonna say some of the filthy jokes that were made in high school. Too many parents in this room>>: Wise decision, I'd say.
<>: Well, you won. What did you bet?

Hyperion> <<I'm a computer geek, not a mathmatician>>: As am I, but it may be my engineering side coming through.

Revel> <<How do we get on these subjects?>>: Very carefully.

DPH> <<If that's the case, why don't scifi shows set in space feature large ships carrying lots of smaller ones?>>: Big honking guns are fun.

Fire Storm> <<FINALLY got approved for the mortgage>>: Congratulations.
<>: I shall be waiting with baited breath.

And if you wish, you may find the work of some Cherry Poppin' Daddies on remus. Specifically, Mister White Keys. Just be glad I didn't go with my lattest Oingo acquisition.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Monday, April 22, 2002 11:38:53 PM
IP: 198.151.130.133

Mara><<You're whining and using the word Admin the same way I would use the word c*nt.>> The name is what you make of it, grasshopper... ^_^

Ho Tay, that's the way
Live to kill another day
Gunjack "Ho Tay" Valentine
Monday, April 22, 2002 10:59:09 PM
IP: 192.133.129.4

yeah so.. im moving out in.. a week? on the 30 of april? but the problem is i dont have anywhere to move *TO*.
the other day, my roommate told me her parents were going to come by sometime soon to start taking the furnature out of my room, becuase the person who is moving in next has her own stuff. funny, i though i was paying money to have this stuff till the end of the month.. ive decided when she randomly tells me "oh, my parents are coming tomorrow" im going to say "sorry, im paying for this stuff and its, you know, illegal for you to take it until ive moved out. if youd like to give me financial compensation to the tune of one months rent, then feel free but.. youre not moving the stuff while im still here".
and yes, mr smartass josh "imzadi" wurzel (not with a "t") i AM going to say that. so nayh.
ill be sure to let you know how it goes ;)

on a slightly better note, i got 30$ of groceries today for 5$. huzzah for my bank! they give me free food cos i bank with them!

siryn>> <<If anyone has ever seen 'killing us softly?' it's about gender stereotypes and such in the media>> *TCH!* youre such a feminazi! fancy bring up such a subject in this comment room! women arent "steriotyped to be that way.. women really *ARE* that way, didnt you know? i know i spend most of MY day reading joshua harris' "boy meets girl" and doing my best to conform, dont you?
*ahem* "a real woman understands that man was created to be the initiator, and she operates on that premise. this is primarily a matter of attitude. i am convinced that the woman who understands and accepts with gladness the difference between masculine and feminine will be, without pretense or self-consciousness, womanly"
*coughcough* guess i aint a *real* woman.. darn. *grabs gunjacks head and gives a large noogie, for his thinking this would be a good book for her to read*
..then again, theres my sneaking suspicion that gunjack dates me and likes me so much cos im slightly *less* feminine in attitude.. but.. thats something youll have to take up with him... ;)
<<--do the girls have their mouth's covered or in some indication with the ad told to be 'silent'>> and/or not look into the camera, or have their eyes shaded or covered by hair?
<<--ads that have dismembered parts of women>> usually sporting some fashion accessory.. or cleaning product. commodity fettishism. sexual desire missplaced into an object/product. i just spent a year studying this stuff..
<<--ads that strictly focus on one part of a woman's body? (ie chest, legs, etc)>> pantihose.. again with the commodity fettishism.. (hmm... maybe i should stop talking about marx's theroies in here.. it might get me lynched..)
<<-- have guys looking down at girls, who are looking up at the guys (except in the case of mixed race, where the roles are reversed>> not always.. depends on the audience to which the magazine is catering.. but it is very interesting
<<-- ads objectifying women and making them where animal skin prints to make them less human>> someone made a movie once about women in the movies.. because the camera is "male" and therefore its difficult for a woman to be shown as strong in film (for any reason other than her sex appeal).. objectifying yes. less human? im not so sure about that.. but woman are often portrayed as "closer to nature" because of the intuitons they are said to have.. i suppose these "instincts" make them somehow more primitive? more so than less human, i think.
<<--ads that promote a 'secret' stranger sneaking up supposedly in a 'romantic' way surprising the woman>> eeeigh. "i got my rape hat on, honey, but i always could accessorize.." nah.. in the ones ive seen, usually they set these ads indoors, making it less threatening as though the woman is familliar with the man.
<<--ads that tell what are mostly on women's minds are either cleaning or boys (or even sex for that matter?)>> and.. did you ever notice that most every ad on tv that uses a woman to advertise a baby product or cleaning product shows the woman wearing a wedding ring? sometimes the over-emphasis on this is just.. silly..

** also note: nostalgic reminicences of the forties and fifties.. the return of the white picket fence. "pleasantville?" campbells soup "mm mm good"? eeigh.. no more forties and fifties, thanks.. that means the sixties and seventies will be coming back.. and then bad eighties hairstyles? the short-long? *shudder*

"lain: WTF? what the heck does crzy have against me all of a sudden??
gunjackvalentine: uuuh.. because youre anti-american and want the filthy arabs to cut our throats and rape our women?
lain: oh, right.. forgot about that part.. :P"

man this sucks.. crzy *AND* sj hate me.. i didnt think this was humanly possible..
i must have a talent for this sort of thing..
:P

shinigimi>> <<Greg's new and still enthusiastic about trying to hold some control over the CR>> egad, i remember those days.. they wont last long.. <<Just wanted to make it clear exactly how much that part of that law sucked>> *coughhacksplutter* have what? on whos computer?? huh?? 0:) << RE: media and sexy kids>> i dont think its the medias fault at all. the media only gives us what we want. if we didnt want brittney, we wouldnt have her. and noone would be making sexy fashions for kids cos noone would want to buy them. then again, perhaps what we want isnt so *coughcoughbarbiecough* good for us..

*decides not to take public stance on admins response to shadowrider and instead lurks off to watch meryl streep and drink chamomile and bitch about life* did i tell you about the housing situation yet? well you see im moving out in seven days and.. oh, and i got fired today too, did i mention?

*glances at gunjacks post, gives the time-honoured "oh, that man of mine" look, and exits to dance in green fields with butterflies and put crowns of daisies in her hair*
lain "" iwakura
the Great White Frozen North. with penguins...
Monday, April 22, 2002 10:54:24 PM
IP: 64.228.198.242

whatz up?
jay - [jayjay44278@yahoo.com]
akron, oh, usa
Monday, April 22, 2002 06:36:04 PM
IP: 206.21.201.218

Ah, all women should be at home naked either cooking, cleaning, or in the bedroom.
;)

Still alive, still packing, still working...

FINALLY got approved for the mortgage, so the hell should be over soon.

So, I am looking to posting somewhere in, oh, August. ;)
Fire Storm
Monday, April 22, 2002 06:22:25 PM
IP: 216.254.103.139

*walks in, carting her sword Threnody in one hand, and a Goblet of Peace in the Other* There, supposedly I'll be ready for anything now. I'm only going to respond from this week, sorry for my tardiness.. I do have an outside life.

ImpFac::The safe sex campaign has taught children (not teenagers-we’re starting when they’re younger and younger now) that if you put on a condom NOTHING can touch you. I don’t think that is a positive message what so ever, and it is far from the truth

You're right, it's far from the truth, since condoms break.. and people get hurt. But I'd much rather precocious Dicky Freebush covers himself under false belief than say "I'm screwed either way, lemme go bareskin" and get Pearl Boatman pregnant, or infected.

Patrick::To add to Jan's comment: In 1500, the average life expectancy was also around 35 to 40. Today, it's nearly double that... so to equate, people today should be waiting until their late 20s to get married.

In a perfect world. I got married at 20. ;)

MetalDemon::NOw that I think about it, in High School, our sex-ed programes never once advocated absitenance; it was always: "If you're going to have sex, wear a condom."

In my high school (admittedly same sex and Catholic) Abstinence was an idea drummed harshly into our hormone crazy heads. We had discussion groups, we had guest speakers. "A condom is properly named because It's a Con and it's Dumb". We had everything but sockpuppets. Still didnt work, I've know some very promiscious girls in those four years. Even with the abstinence talk. Teens will do what teens will do.

Jan:How many young and pre-teens are trying to dress, act, and look like Brittany Spears?

Too many, no accounting for taste. ;)

It's also not 100% of the media at fault. Parenting skills have declined dramatically over the past several years. With both parents working, more single parent homes, etc. it's much easier to allow your child to do as he pleases, go where ever they want, listen or watch whatever they want, etc. because the parent is just too dang tired to fight/argue with them or they are so tied up in their own world of instant gratification or competing with the Jones.... or they have fallen for these idiot child psychologist who have preached that if you discipline your child, you'll destroy their self-esteem and other such nonesense as that.
It is not the deeds of one that has contributed to decaying of our society, it's a combination of many.

I so completely agree with you there, Jan!

*scanning reading upwards, despite fact eyes have gone blurry.. sigh.... I read to much*

Hyperion:Kiddie Porn> Yeah, so for all you people that have hentai on your computers, you know that before that law was ruled unconstutional, you are were felons and sexual offenders, right? Just wanted to make it clear exactly how much that part of that law sucked.

I agree with the Misanthropic Bitch on this topic. Her site is great. I dont relish the fact the when I am a mother I will have to be conscious of the pictures I take of my own child. On the other hand, Grizelda wont be burdened by the Cliche kid-in-the-tub photo that everyone has one of and is embarrassed with when your date meets your folks.

Shadowrider:

IF you want to exile yourself because of your own misconceptions, just refrain from playing martyr. It's annoying. Greg, Robby, Aaron and I have lives, different opinions and are going to call things the way we see them. I don't necessarily agree with any of them on a particular topic (least of all with my *gasp* mate) so we try to compromise. Greg's new and still enthusiastic about trying to hold some control over the CR, we are tired of not being listened to, and temporary banning threats seem to work. You have a better alternative, I'm listening. Otherwise, get-over-yourself. I am not going to hop to, in any effort to placate you. You're whining and using the word Admin the same way I would use the word c*nt.

""You know what, people? I'm tired. Tired of this situation, tired to be forced to play the role of Cato Uticensis (called 'the Censor'...a politician of the Roman Republic, if you want to know). Really, really tired. This CR used to be a funny, relaxing place, but now it has become a source of stress... ""

Calm thyself, you're not being forced into any role whatsoever, you're creating your own stress. Do you want pity or sympathy or something? Come here, I'll hold you and we'll watche Meryl Streep movies and cry about how bad our lives are. I'll make you chamomile tea...

""That's all, people. See you next time...admitted, naturally, that I won't be expelled on the fly for what I wrote...""

No, you get immunity since banning you is what you want, for it would confirm all these silly ideas in your head and you'd feel vindicated for acting like a whiny puss.

Gunjy:Peace, Love, Dope.

Now THAT's what we should be selling.

*seats herself, leans back, legs over the arm of her chair and goes nap nap*
Shinigami
Monday, April 22, 2002 05:54:00 PM
IP: 172.164.116.3

Hyperion><<Depleted Uranium> Well, we use it because it's the heviest damned thing we can make bullets out of...>> Tungsten might be a decent alternative. It's still toxic (like most heavy metals, ie lead), but it ain't radioactive and I don't think it oxidizes at low temps.
<<and given todays armor technology we need to get through whatever they wrap tanks in anymore.>> DU is overkill. the 120mm APFSDSDU rounds we used in the Gulf war commonly went in one side and out the other. Normally, I'd be all for overkill... But I'm not sure if the excessive effectiveness of DU is worth the toxic(?) effects.
<<Of couse, my cynical gut reaction is "if you didn't make us use it, it wouldn't be a problem.">> I'm disturbed at how many people react this way.

Country A invades country B.
Country B says "help us, America!"
We attack A troops within country B's borders.
Country A leaves, we pat ourselves on the back and go home, innocent Country B is now covered in DU dust.

<> When I first heard the WMD" label, I thought they were crazy too...
But think about it. What's being created is essentially low-level fallout. DU weapons dissiminate toxic, radioactive particles that can stay in an area for decades. I'd qualify that as a persistant chemical weapon, although perhaps an unintentional one.

DPH><<
One stupid question: I remember seeing a television show that we are eliminating big destroyers and switching to aircraft carriers.>> In the 19th and early 20th centuries, you needed a large hull to carry heavy naval guns.Hence the evolution toward bigger and bigger battleships, until you have the monsters of the Iowa-class(?).
After WWII, guided missles were developed that could hit harder and with more accuracy than a naval gun, from ranges a hundred times longer. These missles were light enough to be carried in large airplanes or on small patrol boats, and so the battleships found themselves outgunned. Airplanes equipped with bombs and missles outclass the naval gun in every way, so the battleships are scrapped and we go for aircraft carriers.
<<If that's the case, why don't scifi shows set in space feature large ships carrying lots of smaller ones? Or is it that in space, we want big destroyers?>> Space is different. You no longer have a horizen to hide behind, so combat ranges can be thousands of kilometers or more. Under those conditions, the relatively slow-moving guided missle gives way to the speed-of-light directed energy weapon (laser, particle beam, etc). beams work pretty much the same as guns; the larger the weapon, the more powerful it is and the further away it can hit something. Again, bigger guns demand bigger hulls to house them, and you see the battleship reborn.

Peace, Love, Dope.
Gunjack "Silly Me, Dying You" Valentine
Monday, April 22, 2002 04:39:38 PM
IP: 192.133.129.4

Heh. ^_^

I'll say more of the current topic later however..

If anyone has ever seen 'killing us softly?' it's about gender stereotypes and such in the media.

Next time you look at a magazine,
--do the girls have their mouth's covered or in some indication with the ad told to be 'silent'
--ads that have dismembered parts of women
--ads that strictly focus on one part of a woman's body? (ie chest, legs, etc)
-- have guys looking down at girls, who are looking up at the guys (except in the case of mixed race, where the roles are reversed
-- ads objectifying women and making them where animal skin prints to make them less human
--ads that promote a 'secret' stranger sneaking up supposedly in a 'romantic' way surprising the woman
--ads that tell what are mostly on women's minds are either cleaning or boys (or even sex for that matter?)

It's actually a very interesting video. The media doesn't play a _sole_ role in our sexual culture, bt it certainly plays a large one.

I think our cultural identity, as well as gender stereotypes play a huge role in our culture's sexual role, and the media does a large part in continuing those stereotypes.

I also think sex education needs to be addressed (not only by schools, but moreso by parents)...I knew a woman (in her mid twenties) who got pregnant, who knew less about contraception methods and preventive ways/alternatives than I did (and I'm not having sex at all!)

Definately add more later once I read everyone's comments though, I just thought I would mention that film.
Siryn
Monday, April 22, 2002 04:38:00 PM
IP: 129.21.179.48

Oops, I meant to say that new litter was born on Sunday. So that post over a day old.
DPH
ar, usa
Monday, April 22, 2002 03:27:15 PM
IP: 204.94.193.71

Welcome to the township of DPH. Ok, I am joking, but I should apply for township. I have a population of 11 . . . cats and kittens, thanks for an slightly unexpected birth of a litter of 3 today. In other news, one of the kittens of the litter that was born a few weeks ago has opened its eyes. Just so everybody knows, there are now 4 different generations of cats around my house now.

Lady Amalthea - ahh. We have a smart lurker.

Spacebabie <Are you going to use the time staff with he garnet orb to do that or see if there is a spell on the phoenix gate.> Neither. I have enough connections to be able to find the leaders of the groups who would end time. I would offer my services in return for delaying the end of the world. Let's just say that if every airplane/jet/helicopter in the world happenned to have its electrical systems fried by lightning at the same time, that would make a lot of people happy.

Tim - <Every time I try to find a film review of "Lolita" or "Late Fees" on a search engine I find a sh-tload of websites were teenage girls take teir tops off.> That's why I believe there should be .xxx domain names for Triple X websites. That way you could easily exclude them when doing searches for things.

Yesterday, my computer rebooted because I had troubles logging off the internet. When I finally managed to shut down the program, my computer rebooted. Apparantly, somebody was trying to steal some computer files.

Hyperion - *looks through CR trying to find anything extremely objectionable* Are you sure that this isn't based off someone else's rating and that person picked a bad week to rate the CR?

Gunjack - <Depleted Uranium> So much for the idea of developing nuclear grenades. *Cries* Just joking. Hey, we oughta to start advertising what kind of weapons we use during war and that might serve as a deterent. Mess with the US and you'll suffer for years.

One stupid question: I remember seeing a television show that we are eliminating big destroyers and switching to aircraft carriers. If that's the case, why don't scifi shows set in space feature large ships carrying lots of smaller ones? Or is it that in space, we want big destroyers?

Hey, I remember having to write a paper in high school about whether 16 year olds should be able to vote. Anybody want to guess which side I took.

By my best estimates, I slept about 12 hours last night, if that doesn't tell you how tired I was.

Damn this sunburn on my right arm.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, April 22, 2002 03:23:04 PM
IP: 204.94.193.71

So. The revered Admins have finally deigned themselves to try an answer to my repeated question. Probably, I am supposed to feel flattered by that...although, the analitical part of my personality is insistently wondering about 'why' they decided to answer me just now, when all the hints suggested they were going to ignore me again...but, it is secondary. They answered me, and it would be good...if not for the fact that the Admins didn't really answer me, but instead tried to state that the problem I pointed out does not exist (by the way, implying, so, that I am a troublemaker who is making a mess out of nothing). Eventually, they chose to ignore some points (of the most important) of my question. Logically, the result is a 'mutilated' answer, that leaves my question still unanswered. I am now going to answer to what the Admin Greg Bishansky posted to me. But, before doing so, there is something I must point out, and that comes down from what I've just written. I had chance to notice how, sometimes, the Admins are extremely quick in warning and eventually banning people for what they posted...sometimes, I've seen people expelled from here for reasons that, at least to me, appeared extremely weak. Yet, now they (cause I assume that the actions of one Admin represent the will of all of them...) are strongly defending a member of the CR, by ignoring the people who were offended by his comments or by trying to deny that what he wrote can be offensive at all. Since I've started posting in here, I've heard people claiming how somebody into here is allowed more freedom of word than others. I used to not believe to such voices even in the slightest way. As time passed, by observing many things happened in the CR, I started to doubt. Now, I got a confirm: the CR rules are applied differently from person to person, and the very Admins are (naturally unwillingly...at least, I hope they don't WANT to show such a thing. That would be an exceeding show of arrogance by them...) demonstrating it. I personally find it an 'interesting' thing...just to understate...

Greg Bishansky:> <> I didn't ask for *your* apologies...they weren't even needed, except if you think you personally have said something I could have found offensive. You are one of the Admins, and you are supposed to make the rules of the CR respected by everyone into here. Apparently, you think you did it correctly, so why are you apologizing? If, instead, you think you missed your obligations as an Admin, then the apologies *are* needed, just it is not to me that you must give them. But, this is the least of the points of your post, so I go on...
<<If any racist comments were made in here, the admins would of course put a stop to it. We'll be sure to keep a tight leash on any future racist comments. >> Commendable intentions...unluckily, you countersay the intention with the following phrase.
<<Now, for the record, and another admin and I discussed this, SJ isn't racist. There's a difference between "I hate these people because of their skin and their culture" and "These people have declared all out war on us, every man woman and child among them, and are raised that way so will never stop, and if its us or them, I choose us.">> So, this piece of wisdom is the result of a discussion with another Admin, isn't it? If these are the results, then you'd be better to discuss with a mirror...you'll save time and money, and for sure you won't do worse. What you wrote is dangerously wrong, and does not answer to my question. It is wrong, cause the two phrases you quote as examples are, to me, different expressions of the same ignorant hatred, the second actually more dangerous than the first, since it tries to conceal the hatred with an appearance of common sense. *Appearance* of common sense, cause in your second phrase you assume for true things that cannot be demonstrated, and you pretend to judge millions of people for the actions of few. I think there is no need to explain how such a way of thinking is wrong and dangerous. Actually, the second phrase not only IS still racism, but reminds me of the delirating "reasons" that others brought up to sostain their racial hate, in times that are still close to ours...Even if SJ had said only what you mention, your answer would be deeply unsatisfying. But, he didn't say just that. He eventually treated hundred millions of human beings as "animals" and "vermin", and invoked for them nuclear extermination. Seems I must once again ask my question: are these things all right for you Admins? If it is so, next time someone will say in here something I won't like, I'll treat him (or her) as "animal" and "vermin" and will invoke his (her) death, and you won't say anything...if it is all right to invoke the "Final Solution" for a whole ethnic group, why is it supposed to be wrong to invoke it for one single person? I'm sure you don't think so...
And we arrive to the final line of your post...that went very close to make me lose temper when I've read it. Actually, I am still upset now, but at least I resisted the temptation to post yesterday night and say what passed through my mind (that, I suspect, was your objective...)
<< No flame responses will be tolerated. >> What is it supposed to be, 'Admin'? A warning? If it is so, you not only missed the target...you eventually aimed to the wrong one. Go and read my past posts, Admin...every post of mine for the past two years. I've never flamed to anyone, not one single time. And, for sure, I won't begin now for you. You are looking for an usual flamer? I'm sure you can find one of you try. It is not difficult, not at all...

You know what, people? I'm tired. Tired of this situation, tired to be forced to play the role of Cato Uticensis (called 'the Censor'...a politician of the Roman Republic, if you want to know). Really, really tired. This CR used to be a funny, relaxing place, but now it has become a source of stress...

Oh, I have a reply to do...

Josh:> I'm sorry, I forgot to reply to you last time I posted. I apologize, it was not my intention to ignore you, but my reply to you slipped out of my mind...
<<Such is the engineer's existence. >> And I suspect I am too late to change to something else...dunno, Italian Litterature, for example...or Achitecture. I've got some friends there...they do nothing from morning to evening, plus it's full of girls...<sighs>
<<There's 24 perfectly usable hours in every day...and I refuse to use about 10 of them. >> You're right...unluckily, I am still slave of my weaknesses...for example, the need for sleep. although, I must say, the military service did help me in this...now, I need only six hours of sleep, and I rarely sleep for more than seven continuate hours...

That's all, people. See you next time...admitted, naturally, that I won't be expelled on the fly for what I wrote...

Good night.

"Io sono come Dio / E gli uomini li rifarei / Come ora / Occhi per non vedere / Bocche per non parlare / Meglio così"

"Se la terra è tonda / E se il mare è blu / Da che mondo è mondo / Il forte vince e non sei tu"

"Nessuno salvò nessuno con la spada"

"Tutto ciò che accade tu lo scrivi?"
"Tutto ciò che io scrivo accade."

Shadowrider - [shdwrdr@tiscali.it]
Monday, April 22, 2002 03:18:18 PM
IP: 62.10.21.165

How do we get on these subjects?! *sighs*

age of consent- fine where it is, I had no desire to vote, smoke, or die in war before 18 there for 18 is good for a first step to that world.

kiddy porn- sick, nuff said

drawings/hentai- they're drawings for God's sakes, now you are bitching for the sake of bitching.

teen marriage- can work if two are really willing to work with it. My parrents were married when they were 18 and 20 and are still together.

Crzy- I'm with you, some 30 yr old freak comes hitting on my cousins I will meet them with spread shot and a katana in case I'm a bad shot that day.

All I have to say on that, sheesh.

"Mas Tequilla!"
-Sammy Hagar-
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, tx
Monday, April 22, 2002 11:28:45 AM
IP: 129.120.230.108

Memo to self: Never, ever triple the amount of powered chai you put in your cup for *any* reason.
I'm not sure, but I think I'm devloping an irregular heart rhythem because of it.
Oh well, at least I'm awake.

Moving on:
I don't remember who said it, but someone said something about the set rating vs the actual rating in the room. I tried pulling up the CR from work the other day, but it failed the rating check. I thought that was funny as hell, espically since that article about kidde porn I posted went through just fine. I'd mention it to the IT guys, but I'd rather not let them know I'm not actually working.

Teen-age marrage> Actually in India marriages between 13 and 15 year olds is fairly common. Make of that what you will.

Sex education> Actually, my high school was so small, we used the same car for driver's ed and sex ed.
Ok, not really, but I think it's funny. Anyway, look, in the US we have some very wierd laws about stuff. So, at 16 I can throw around 1.5 tons of plastic and steel at 70 MPH, but can't buy a gun. At 18 I can be tried as an adult and can go die for my country, but can't have a beer beforehand. Wonky.
The purpose of the legislature is to set certain minimum standards. It's up the the judicial system (IMHO) to decide how the law applies to a given case. In an ideal world anyway. Point is, if the law states that it's illeagal for someone 14-years old to have sex it's the job of the Justice System to say, "well, look, she was having sex with her 15 year old boyfriend. This is not a criminal matter; call the parents." as opposed to a 35 year old videotaping the act and selling it online.

Depleted Uranium> Well, we use it because it's the heviest damned thing we can make bullets out of and given todays armor technology we need to get through whatever they wrap tanks in anymore. Of couse, my cynical gut reaction is "if you didn't make us use it, it wouldn't be a problem."
I don't think it would be a "weapon of mass destruction" I reserve that for NBC devices. Is it wrong to use it...<shrug> I haven't studied it enough to take an educated stance. My uneducated stance is above however.

Mass Media> The only thing I'll say to this is that I keep hearing the same arguement; something along the lines of "Well, I watched/listened to this band/movie/singer and I turned out fine!"
Well, just because it didn't effect everyone dosen't mean it didn't effect anyone. In marketing if a commerical influences 1000 people to by a product it's considered an unqualified success.

Kiddie Porn> Yeah, so for all you people that have hentai on your computers, you know that before that law was ruled unconstutional, you are were felons and sexual offenders, right? Just wanted to make it clear exactly how much that part of that law sucked.

Gside> Horizontal asympotes> No, I didn't. I'm a computer geek, not a mathmatician. <shrug>

Ok that's enough typing. Off to...er...hmm...do something.

*****************************
"Then you hit him? That's horrible! What where you feeling?"
"When I hit him? A dull thump."

Hyperion - [hyperion@justice.com]
Monday, April 22, 2002 10:53:38 AM
IP: 207.103.164.100

::REEEEAUGH!!!:: That was the sound I made just now as I woke from a nightmare. DAMN those awful unexpected dreams. "She's releasing fears, she's anxious about the summer, she doesn't feel grown up enough to handle it and wants to regress" NO, shut UP psych majors in my head, I just want to call my mom, or dad, or boy, or WHATEVER but I hate sitting in the dark alone knowing that if I go lay down I'll fall asleep and be doomed to repeat the same process. Sleep. Dream. Dream turns to nightmare, wake screaming, get mocked in morning by suitemates that I must have been getting amazing play last night... grit teeth.
ARG. I'll suck it up and go back to bed, or I'll be a wreck.
I'll reply to these all to fascinating subjects in the morning. Hurrah for heated discussions not yet flaming. Yay.
-Lila
Lila - [liejones@yahoo.com]
la, ca, usa
Monday, April 22, 2002 07:26:13 AM
IP: 134.173.121.188

Hello.

See we've started a debate here. Let's see how long it takes to degenerate into name calling. Let's just say I'm really glad I'm never having children so that I don't need to be yelled at for contributing to the moral decay of the next generation.

Less than 10 hours. Impressive.

Where's SJ? This debate is right up his alley.

replies

Mooncat: <<At 16 I was well able to decide wether or not to have sex, and I deliberately chose not to have sex because I was convinced the risk of pregnancy was too great>>: 16 would have been fine for me...the problem was when I looked around at my classmates. They weren't (and many still are not) mature enough to deal with it. <<Personally, I think everyone should be put on mandatory birth control as soon as they are capable of breeding, until they are in their mid twenties, then have to pass a parenting test before being allowed to be fertile>>: You know you can still get pregnant with birth control, it's not perfect. On the other hand...us males would be able to time every female we meet and know when to duck for cover 8-) <<accidently seeing someone's bare ankles was considered hot stuff>>: I can't imagine how Victoria's Secret stayed in business then ;-) <<Well, that's my spiel for the evening>>: Why do I think it will be the first of many. <>: Didn't you say this already? <>: I doubt it. 18-24 year olds have the lowest number of votes every year. And 16 year olds still have curfews, etc. Think they're gonna waste 30 minutes of an evening voting? <<Brittany is "legal" and can wear or not wear whatever she wants>>: Perhaps, but she is also a role model for many younger girls, and thus what she does has an effect on them. <<Mow the lawn... or do cat boxes? Scylla or Charybdis?>>: LOL good comparison. <<demon highschool cheerleaders meet tentacle monsters from space' should land you in jail as a pedophile>>: No, but it definitely lands you a spot in this CR. <<did the sexy clothes *cause* the girls to be more promiscuous, or was wearing sexy clothes merely an outward sign of the girls inclination to be promiscuious>>: Jan's not suggesting a cause. She's suggesting a correllation. <<Clothes may make the man, but they don't have the power to control wether or not you will have sex>>: Try telling that to an engineer. <<Just how do these researchers gather reliable data on a study like that?>>: by keeping the data confidential. As long as no one finds out, I'll share plenty of details. <<does she really cause 5th graders to wear full body red rubber suits to school?>>: If they sold them at Gap Too, I'm sure they'd try. <<why not just forbid kids to watch television?>>: For the record, I was forbidden to watch TV during the week before the age of 13, and look how !@#$ed up I am! <<keep telling them all the basic and neccesary facts about sex>>: Who decides what's "basic and necessary" and is that enough?

Gunjack: <<Was anyone else aware that the US (and the brits, and the Israelis) routinely uses weapons of mass destruction?>>: well that depends on the definition of "mass destruction". <<Reportedly, Iraq has seen a seven-fold increase in rare birth defects, and soil samples taken indicate greatly increased background radiation>>: If that qualifies as a weapon of mass destruction, then yes we do. Why we are still using DU is beyond me. In the Gulf War we didn't fully know their effects, but now we don't have that excuse.

Jan: <<who have preached that if you discipline your child, you'll destroy their self-esteem and other such nonesense as that>>: Maybe...but they'll learn fast not to get into trouble. They can build an ego when they're not in jail ;-) <<under their state laws anyone who rapes a 14 year old may only receive 5 years in prison -vs- a juvenile rape sentence of 10 years>>: Again, we're talking about drawing a line that's difficult to draw. In CA its a full sentence for raping a 17.5 year old but only half for raping an 18 year old. I'm not saying that you're wrong (or that the law is wrong). I'm just saying that where the age of consent is/should be is not a clear-cut issue.

Green Baron: <<My bloodlust is stronger than my sexual lust, but Ihave never killed anyone or even been in a fight.>>: Then that sentence is obviously FALSE. <<If you're horny, you have a right hand and a left hand. As long as you aren't near any carzy glue, that is safe sex>>: LOL! <<When I spilled something as a kid, I got punished>>: That's a bit extreme. When I spilled something, my parents knew that feeling stupid was punishment enough. No use crying over spilled milk, literally. <<feline, who thinsk OJ is innocent>>: My cat was suggesting otherwise the other day...

Crzy: <<That is a bunch of crap. Show me ONE case where this has happened where both parties (same age) consented>>: Ah, the caveat was same age. I don't know of a particular case where they were the same age, but I know of at least one case where they were both consenting high schoolers. <<My sister in law was 15 when she got pregnant by the "poor football player">>: Just for the record, I don't really feel bad for the football player. He can !@#$ himself. <<He was 18 and could care less if she needed help>>: Well, unfortunately for him there are laws in place that say he has to give her at least money to support the kid, if nothing else. <<she's a breeder, but with her education level it's all she really knows how to do>>: That's sad. <<GODS!! We can only hope!! That would be poetic justice>>: Lets see if being canadian saves her ;-) <>: I'd just use the channel blocking feature. Then again, DTV is rather expensive itself. <<They can drive they can hump and vote" thing doesn't fly with me>>: What if they all took place at 18? Seriously cars are just as dangerous as sex organs. It's very difficult to fully grasp how dangerous or foolish you are until something bad happens (or nearly happens). <<Not everyone in the world is a slut like Josh>>: I resent that remark! And for the record, I tested negative. For everything. <<life is NOT like 90210>>: It is if you're a spoiled brat in LA. <<That has got to me the most DISTURBING thing I have heard in a LONG time>>: More disturbing than that one time you and SJ and Patrick and I simultaneously agreed?

Hyperion: <<I'd rather achieve it through, you know, NOT DYING!>>: NICE.

IMPFAC: <<if you get AIDS, I’m gonna give you a big ass mirror with the words “stupid” written on it>>: It depends on how stupid you were. If you have unprotected sex, you're stupid. If you're protected, maybe both partners got tested and the results came back negative (and were wrong), and you still get it...how stupid are you really? <>: As long as I don't have to wear a homing beacon or be monitored by camera 24-7, fine.

Tim: <<don't even get me started on the swell job our federal government does to stop the flow of drugs in this country>>: ::snorts line:: What drugs? <<Remember what those 14 year old Somalian boys were carrying? They weren't teddy bears, they were Soviet designed AK-74's. And they were pointed at our Rangers>>: Movies are not good reference material. <<Just remember that when they're looting your home or businsess or assaulting your loved ones, say, "Thank you Senator Fienstien!">>: Don't worry, I already blame the democrats for every problem I have. <<Not some horny high school teacher who tried to help one of his/her students to score some extracirricular credit>>: On the contrary. Anyone who uses their position of authority to influence someone's decision to have sex with them is not someone we should have teaching our students. <<Methinks you're being a tad paranoid>>: She's a parent. She's supposed to be. <<whom I gather is from California>>: Of course she is.

Spacebabie: <<it generates more spam>>: Amen! <<Did they regret it. You bet your sweet bippy>>: Not all of them, and sometimes not for years afterwards. <<that should be BMs as in Bowel Movements>>: Oh! <<since my cups size is hard to find I have to settle for cotton>>: We've spent way too much time lately talking about your breasts. Continue. <<Bowel Movements in other words>>: Thanks, I know what it means. <<Of course we all know what makes your crotch sing>>: If my crotch started singing...I'd check into Betty Ford. <<Dang can’t visit you then>>: Well, you can. You'd just have to stay elsewhere. <>: I'm sure you have. <<’m an English major>>: Right, humanities. <<I’d make them take turns>>: Ah. <>: Also hitler's b-day. <<So there is time for me then>>: That assumes you're planning on it.

Patrick: Thanks for the space info...it was for a paper I'm writing. <<your arguments sound more and more like the same kind of "defense" the predators put up once they're hauled into court>>: I knew that one was coming from someone before this debate was over. And I think its a pretty low argument. <<It's not the duty of the child / teen who is experiencing these impulses for the first time in his or her life who should bear the burden of fending off the older / stronger / more experienced adult>>: Absolutely right. <<all that's important in life is getting some, right?>>: Well, that's true ;-), but *how* you go about it and where you draw the lines is what makes you a reasonable human being.

Gside: <<you don't have to worry about getting castrated by LABIA>>: That's a horrible image. <<Math league, science league, and band. Explains a lot I think. But it's already been explained in my engineerhood>>: Wow, you were a bigger geek than I. <<There is a somewhat famous "grass on the field" comment>>: I'm not gonna say some of the filthy jokes that were made in high school. Too many parents in this room. <<Sure you don't mean The Sweedish Chef?>>: Maybe he said that too. But I heard it from Mike. <<Note to self: start with Spacebabie>>: I bet you will.

Okay, sleepy time soon.

Are you a real student?
-Jeri Ryan, "Boston Public"

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenuts.com]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Monday, April 22, 2002 02:35:07 AM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Some brownouts took out the servers last night, but I survived.

Imzadi> <>: As do I. It is easier, and you don't have to worry about getting castrated by LABIA.
<<You're either an engineer or a humanities major. There is no third direction>>: Well, the more theoretical sciences are technically separate from engineering, and the social sciences aren't as bad as humanities.

Hyperion> <<an asymptotic memory? so what...there's just a big gap and they your memory continues on unmolested?>>: There are also horizontal asymptotes. So my memory quickly moves towards forgetfulness, then stays about the same.

Amalthea> <<Hello to all. I'm new in here>>: Welcome, when the bug blue guy comes back, please give him your sanity.
<<please feel free to ask me questions about myself>>: Don't worry, we have our ways of finding out.

Imzadi> <<Um, yeah. Where were YOU in high school>>: Math league, science league, and band. Explains a lot I think. But it's already been explained in my engineerhood.
<<There has to be some border where sex is just inappropriate>>: There is a somewhat famous "grass on the field" comment.
<<But then again I'm the only one in here who admits to having nearly 50 gigs of dirty movies>>: I don't keep much porn on my computer. Nor do I spend much time with movies. But I've probably passed the 50 gig milestone already.
<<Bork bork bork. -Mike Margolis>>: Sure you don't mean The Sweedish Chef? I just got an image of The Sweedish Chef challenging the Iron Chefs.

Early class tomorrow. Note to self: start with Spacebabie.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Monday, April 22, 2002 01:15:44 AM
IP: 198.151.130.133

Bleagh. It was supposed to say;
"My opinions are based far more on my neo-libetrarian views..."
Tim
Monday, April 22, 2002 12:40:00 AM
IP: 206.72.25.116

Jennifer:
<<It's not as common as you think.>> Perhaps were you live. Behaviors and values vary from region to region. Look at the 2000 election. Densely populated coastal areas voted for Gore. The less populsted areas in the mid west voted for Bush.
<> Hmmm? Are you say that entire series of articles that the Souix City Journal has been running lied to me?! Darnit, I hate it when they do that ;)
<<You scare me... stay away from my children or I will have to kill you. I am SO not joking.>> Relax. My are based far more my neo-libertarian veiws on the role of the federal government than my sexual prefrences. And I simply stated the definition as I remember it from a news paper. Hell, I don't even like kids on a platonic level. I didn't even like kids when I was a kid. Methinks you're being a tad paranoid ;) Can't really blame you though, Most people have a deep concern for the wellfare of children and issues regarding laws, ethics, and moral relativism frazzles some people. It's just that my opinion of when childhood ends and adulthood begins is different than that of some others. I've spoken before about such issues in other forums as in college or online. Some disagree, others, like some of my friends and family members, agree. People in Iowa simply think it's a wastes of the system time to prosecute a guy who had some stupid fling with a 16 year old student when they could be trowing murders in jail. You on the other hand, whom I gather is from California(?), live in an area where people believe it's an issue to be dealt with. That's basically what I'm trying to say. Iowa and California. The Ying and The Yang. The Peanut butter and the jelly, The Hootie and the Blowfish. Not The band, I mean the poisonious self-inflating fish indegenious to the seas of Southeast Asia. :)
Tim
Monday, April 22, 2002 12:16:23 AM
IP: 206.72.25.116

Lady Amalthea- Did you take your name from the Last Unicorn? I just rented it from the video store myself a week or so ago to let Kaioto watch it. I really liked that book/movie:) It was one of my faves as a kid, because it was obviously more adult then other videos I was allowed to watch in Day Care, but they somehow let that one slip in. I don't think they ever watched it very carefully *l*
Lexy
Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:36:51 PM
IP: 66.31.222.137

Jan <<I spent many years as a teacher and the 3rd - 5th grade students who wore "sexy" clothing were more likely to be sexually active by the time they were out of junior high than those who were more conservative in their style of clothing. (Our district did a study on this.)>>

But did the sexy clothes *cause* the girls to be more promiscuous, or was wearing sexy clothes merely an outward sign of the girls inclination to be promiscuious. (sp?)

Clothes may make the man, but they don't have the power to control wether or not you will have sex. I knew girls who wore the most conservative clothes to school, but they were having sex with their boyfriends, and girls who wore short leather skirts and 'sexy' clothes in highschool who didn't have sex at all. As I remember from being in highschool, there was no greater concentration in who was having sex and who wasn't based on what they wore to school. About 2 in five of each group was sexually active, and the rest weren't. I was an honors/gifted program student, but also into a lot of art and alternative stuff, so I was well aquainted with those who dressed conservatively, and those who dressed hot/expressively. There seemed a pretty even mix among both groups of those who were sexually active, and those who were not.

As for researchers, I wonder just how many of the conservatively dressed girls were going to admit to those researchers that they were having sex. Just how do these researchers gather reliable data on a study like that?

Side note -- I have to ask, just what the heck counts as "sexy clothes" in a 3rd to 5th grader anyways??? I have a hard time envisioning a 5th grader (what, an 11 year old?) wearing a corset, bustier, etc to school. If we are talking about crop tops and shorty shorts, I think the people doing the study need to get a real job.

Britteny Spears, does she really cause 5th graders to wear full body red rubber suits to school? Boggles the mind. If we are talking short skirts, etc, girls were doing it before Britteny, and before Madonna. Blaming promiscuity on a hem line is terribly misleading. It's like blaming a camel as a reason for why the desert is dry and hot, instead of realizing camels are a result of the climate, not the cause.

Cussing, promiscuity, and whatnot in prime time -- why not just forbid kids to watch television? Personally, I think kids can handle today's prime time just fine. I don't hear all that much cussing in prime time, even on cable. And as for promiscuity in entertainment, I'd rather my own kids see stuff on tv, and then we can discuss it, than have them pick up urban legend and silly/dangerous stuff in the locker room or school bathroom, like they did before prime time became racy enough to talk about.

I'm for educating kids as fully as possible, and continuously, and letting them enjoy their television without getting all censor city. Kids already know about sex from sources besides prime time television, so I don't see the point on censoring PT unless we as a society are trying to foster deliberate ignorance in kids. That just bugs me no end. Ignorance isn't bliss. Ignorance can kill.

I favor intensive education for kids on the subjects of sex, responsibility, and repercussions. Tell them in grade school where babies come from, and what happens if you have one before you are financially stable, and keep telling them all the basic and neccesary facts about sex, risks of death and pregnancy, and so on every year until they graduate highschool. I think that would make a much greater difference than deleting cuss words and a little bit of skin from prime time.

Just my thoughts
Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:33:12 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Tim P. - <<Sixteen is a perfectly sensible age to set consent laws at. The government seems to trust them with a vehical at that age.>> Sure, and you have to take a class and pass a written and driving test. In California, you can get your license at 16, but you can't drive with anyone under the age of 20 in the car unless you have a licensed drive over age 25 with you. You also can't drive between the hours of midnight to 5am. If you could do that sort of restriction on a drivers license (since they "trust" you to have one) then maybe we should make the legal adult age be 16 and then just have them constantly chaparoned too. Sorry, folks... but the "They can drive they can hump and vote" thing doesn't fly with me.

<<but there are a hell of a lot of 15 & 16 year olds who are sexually active>> Not everyone in the world is a slut like Josh. :P And life is NOT like 90210. So I think maybe you need to rethink your "stats" on the subject. It's not as common as you think. <<Not some horny high school teacher who tried to help one of his/her students to score some extracirricular credit.>> OH... MY... GOD... That has got to me the most DISTURBING thing I have heard in a LONG time. << And at 14, it's not pedophilia. Pedophilia is for ages below 13. >> You scare me... stay away from my children or I will have to kill you. I am SO not joking.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:17:54 PM
IP: 67.227.14.100

Josh:<<Thank you for not asking about TGS>> I've been lurking around long enough to know that people get mad when questions pertaining to TGS are asked. <<Where in CA are you from?>> I am from San Diego.
Lady Amalthea
San Diego, CA, USA
Sunday, April 21, 2002 09:57:00 PM
IP: 66.27.85.63

Josh<<Hey, totally off topic, but does anyone remember the name of the space mission where the failure to land was caused by lousy unit conversion? Was it the mars lander?>>

I saw that on the nasa select channel. In 1998 there were two mars missions that failed, one right after the other. I think it was the first of the two where the designers used inches and the programmers used centimeters. I think one was called "Mars Global Surveyer" and the other was "Mars Polar Orbiter/Lander" I think it was the "Global Surveyer"

I'd have to doublecheck nasa's web site to make sure. They have a Mission Status Report Archive.

Leo
Sunday, April 21, 2002 08:46:15 PM
IP: 172.150.239.50

Tim> <<Not some horny high school teacher who tried to help one of his/her students to score some extracirricular credit>> *mouth drops open* You know, that kind of reasoning doesn't even deserve a response. I won't waste my energy. Everything that you've said up until this point has lost all creditability in my book.

Mooncat> I think you have possibly misunderstood the point I was trying to make about Brittany Spears. It's not that because of her behavior or the way she dresses does it cause young girls to go out and have sex - it was merely an example of how much TV has an influence on people and especially younger kids. The young girls all want to look, act, and dress like Brittany because they are influenced by her. I'm not stating that is right or wrong - it's just what happens. I was only pointing out that TV/media does in fact have an influence over people and they know that it does. They should be responsible in with this "power" in what is presented to the youth. As I stated earlier too - it's not sole responsibility of the media to do this, but a combined effort - media, schools, parents, etc. All have equal impact on the impressionable minds of the youth. What I would like to see is the removal of cussing, sexual promiscuity, etc from prime time shows. I don't think this is asking for too much from the networks. Leave these more mature subjects to the later evening programming... as it was once done.
Sexy clothing does lead to a greater chance of some pre-teen becoming promiscuous by the time she's a couple of years older. It's an "attitude" that one develops.
I spent many years as a teacher and the 3rd - 5th grade students who wore "sexy" clothing were more likely to be sexually active by the time they were out of junior high than those who were more conservative in their style of clothing. (Our district did a study on this.)

Disclaimer: this does not include 100% - there ARE exceptions.

Jan
Sunday, April 21, 2002 08:37:47 PM
IP: 12.110.236.106

ack -- that should be "know better than to have..." etc

MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, April 21, 2002 08:23:55 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Teachers and students. -- A highschool teacher definately should know better to have sex with a student. After the student graduates, that's different, but beyond subjective morality, it's terribly unethical to have sex with a student, especially when grades are involved.

Porn and consequences - I think true pedophile porn involving real children is absolutely wrong. However I think artwork and other 'virtual' depictions that do not involve real life kids should not have the same onus/penalties are real life pedo-porn.

There is tons of hentai art work where the characters are highschool age, and it's only pen and ink, or pixels, with neither artist nor audience having harmed or intending harm to real life high school teens. I don't think having a copy of 'demon highschool cheerleaders meet tentacle monsters from space' should land you in jail as a pedophile.

Art and fantasy are not the same as having harmed or caused harm to real life people. So I'm pretty much against prosecuting artists and writers for producing fictional works.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, April 21, 2002 08:22:44 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Josh > It was one of the Mars probe launches.

Tim Phipps > "No, I just think that we should focus on prosecuting real child molesters and real rapists. Not some horny high school teacher who tried to help one of his/her students to score some extracirricular credit." -- You know, it truly boggles my mind that you say that as if it's a perfectly acceptable scenario. Morality, ethics, and common sense be damned... all that's important in life is getting some, right?

Sheesh.

:: wonders why he even wastes his breath sometimes ::
Patrick Toman
Sunday, April 21, 2002 07:26:43 PM
IP: 66.72.199.40

Caved in and got a DVD player today. We have exactly 1 DVD (my birthday present from three weeks ago). But I'm sure it's only the beginning.

Stephen > saw the site; interesting contests! Might be a good idea to go through some of the back issues and contact contributors by e-mail as a lot of them don't frequent the comment rooms.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Sunday, April 21, 2002 06:56:06 PM
IP: 67.226.47.234

Hey, totally off topic, but does anyone remember the name of the space mission where the failure to land was caused by lousy unit conversion? Was it the mars lander?
Josh
Sunday, April 21, 2002 06:47:29 PM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Patrick Toman:<<And I'm saying I think it's complete an utter hogwash 9999 times out of 10000 to say that a 14 year old girl has "willingly" had sex with a man two or three times her age.>> Then I would have to say you're a bit niave. If we were talking about 14 year olds you would be right, but there are a hell of a lot of 15 & 16 year olds who are sexually active. At least where I'm from, anyway.
<<Forgive me for saying this, but your arguments sound more and more like the same kind of "defense" the predators put up once they're hauled into court.>> No, I just think that we should focus on prosecuting real child molesters and real rapists. Not some horny high school teacher who tried to help one of his/her students to score some extracirricular credit. Sixteen is a perfectly sensible age to set consent laws at. The government seems to trust them with a vehical at that age.
I read about the definition of "pedophilia" in the Des Moines Register a few months ago.
Tim
Sunday, April 21, 2002 04:43:16 PM
IP: 206.72.25.117

Tim Phipps > And I'm saying I think it's complete an utter hogwash 9999 times out of 10000 to say that a 14 year old girl has "willingly" had sex with a man two or three times her age. And for the record, ditto if the genders are reversed, the same, or what have you. Forgive me for saying this, but your arguments sound more and more like the same kind of "defense" the predators put up once they're hauled into court. "She was willing! We're in love! She came on to me! Just look at how she's dressed! How could any man resist?" There's a reason the term "jailbait" exists. It's the mature adult who is supposed to be able to curb his base impulses around the child / teen. It's not the duty of the child / teen who is experiencing these impulses for the first time in his or her life who should bear the burden of fending off the older / stronger / more experienced adult. The adult should know better than the child. That's just common sense in my book.

Also, where does it say that it's pedophilia only if the objects of ones unwanted affections are under age 13? It's been my impression from my understanding of psychology and the law that the term applies to anyone taking a sexual interest in minors. And yes, teenagers are still children. 14 years old or 4 years old... the parents (who are hopefully adults) are still in charge of a minature human who does not yet posses the wherewithal to provide for him or herself or make life-altering decisions.

And as for the link Hyperion posted... that columnist has a few screws loose. There have to be consequences to the end user of any illegal product. The same logic is true for child porn as it is for illicit drugs. Just because you had no hand in making the cocaine or raping the child doesn't mean you are not hurting anyone by buying the crack or the kid porn video. This is pure market economics. Supply and demand. If the consequences of being part of the demand become harsh enough, the supply will be less. And if even one less kid gets sexually abused by a profiteering pedophile with a digital camcorder because someone downloading the stuff off IRC goes to jail for a nice stretch... I think we've made a pretty fair tradeoff.

:: hops back down off the soapbox and returns to fic writing ::
Patrick Toman
Sunday, April 21, 2002 04:10:41 PM
IP: 66.72.199.40

and I once again forget my color.
Daphne
Sunday, April 21, 2002 03:39:48 PM
IP: 129.68.10.47

just tossing in a couple of legal pennies (2 cents, precisely)...
In PA, at least according to the poster on the Septa bus, the rule is its rape if a) one partner is under 14 and the other is not, or b) one partner is under 18 and the other is 4 years older.
While there's going to be exceptions, obviously, I think in general this is a pretty reasonable standard.
any comments?
Daphne
Sunday, April 21, 2002 03:39:07 PM
IP: 129.68.10.47

SHADOWRIDER> I apologize if anything was said here to offend you on the level that it obviously has. If any racist comments were made in here, the admins would of course put a stop to it. We'll be sure to keep a tight leash on any future racist comments.

Now, for the record, and another admin and I discussed this, SJ isn't racist. There's a difference between "I hate these people because of their skin and their culture" and "These people have declared all out war on us, every man woman and child among them, and are raised that way so will never stop, and if its us or them, I choose us."

No flame responses will be tolerated.
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, April 21, 2002 03:35:47 PM
IP: 216.179.3.15

DERN lot Boys!!!
<<<people today should be waiting until their late 20s to get married>>>This was the question that was supposed to have the answer"Then there is time for me"
Wrong Patrick Question.
Spacebabie
Sunday, April 21, 2002 02:12:52 PM
IP: 67.24.17.190

YUM!
Spinach on pizza is good.

Kiddie porn. Its disgusting ...end of story. anyone who gets off on that needs to see a shrink.
Another reason why I'm against kiddie porn
Click for triple X teen lesbian sex
Hi I'm cindy I just turned 18((Okay she is legal))come view me on my new web cam.
Naked mail teenagers click here.
Thats why it generates more spam.

The fact that some sicko is clicking through the net too look at fourteen year old girls and jackinbg off on it makes me wanna vomit.

Yes some 14 year olds girls are doing it but its not like they are all sluts that will spread their legs for the whole football team. They were pressured into it.
Did they do it Yes
Did they regret it. You bet your sweet bippy.

Now back to uploading.

Replies
Jan<<<which category does “skank” fall into? Skank woman or skank girl…>>>She is pure Skank.<<<what is a Bms? >that should be BMs as in Bowel Movements.<<>>Indian spices and when I say Indian I mean it comes from India.

Gside<<<Not even silk? >>>oooh I would love to have silk…or satin but since my cups size is hard to find I have to settle for cotton..wich is fine cause cotton breaths, but usually the bras I get have that F$#^@*! underwire.<<<How'd you manage that one.>>> Lefty and Righty.<<<Depends on if he fell down.>>>If he doesn’t fall down then he’s a weeble.

DPH<<>>Look Greg’ he’s evil…you must be proud.<<<IF DPH HAS TO MAKE DEALS TO DELAY THE END OF TIME UNTIL AFTER TIMEDANCER IS PUBLISHED.>>>Are you going to use the time staff with he garnet orb to do that or see if there is a spell on the phoenix gate.

Josh<<<Why would i want my BMW red?>>>Bowel Movements in other words: feces, excreetment, dung,manure,poop, poo poo, pooh, dooky, ka ka, doo doo, doody, turds, crap…and of course that one word that starts with S <<<18 is legal in this state.>>>Of course we all know what makes your crotch sing<<<"not". There should be a not in there. Which really pisses me off. >>>Dang can’t visit you then.<<<Good. I imagine leather would be painful >>>and hot. I have worn pleather pants before.<<<Murphy's law dictates that mine will be.>>>Go punch Murphey in the nose.<<<You're either an engineer or a humanities major. There is no third direction.>>>I’m an English major :P<<<At the same time? I didn't know you were into that.>>>I’d make them take turns. <<<now everyone go get stoned.>>>I have Asthma…oh wait Brownies

IMPFAC>>>I thougt 4:20 was the Colombine rememberance day and a code for stoners.<<<why don’t you ever hear about WOMEN child molesters??>>>They are called high school teachers.

Patrick<<<Both at the same time, or one after the other?>>>I already answered this question.<<<Both at the same time, or one after the other? >>>So there is time for me then.

Tim<<>Sometimes Tim we do have them twice of month, that is unusual and its caused by stress and other medical problems.<<<Oh, As if none of you ever looked at Japanese hentai,>>>:::flutters eyelashes in an innocent fashion and a halo appears over her head::: Nope not me :::Halo tarnishes and falls down::: Oh allright I need my Touga/Saionji fix. But there is a difference. Hentai is drawings.aka not real. Kiddie porn is real.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Sunday, April 21, 2002 02:08:09 PM
IP: 67.24.17.190

<<All the states have laws against kidnapping and murder, too, but the federal government needs the "redundant" laws to have the power to catch those criminals who commit their crimes in multiple states or flee the jurisdiction in which the crime was committed.>> All states have extradition laws to have suspects and felons detained and returned to the state where he is accused of the crime.
<<Eliminate the federal laws, and it will be open season for child porn traffickers, just as it would be for drug dealers if the federal drug laws were eliminated.>> Excuse me? Have you been on the internet recently? Every time I try to find a film review of "Lolita" or "Late Fees" on a search engine I find a sh-tload of websites were teenage girls take teir tops off. And don't even get me started on the swell job our federal government does to stop the flow of drugs in this country.
<<I don't believe for a microsecond that 14 year old Susie is making an informed, mature decision of consent when she gives in to the "show me how much you love me" pressure being exerted by some honry middleaged pedophile. >> You automaticly assume that only the older participant has the intent of having sex. And at 14, it's not pedophilia. Pedophilia is for ages below 13.

Jan: <<Even at the ripe old age of 16, a person still does not have the maturity nor reasoning skills of someone who is 18. (there are always the exceptions, but those are more rare than common)>> Maturity is relative. You are assuming
that almost everyone is incapable of making a informed, mature decision untill the Earth revolves a certin number of times since they popped out. I Find that even harder to believe in a country with public sex ed, Discovery Channel, Dr. Ruth, and Maddona. And as far as Brittany Spears is concerned, marketing has yet to evolve to the point of brainwashing to decide for the customers what they want. Brittany is successful becuase that's what the fans/customers want. They simply confirm to a certain style of clothing afterward.
<<I don't feel it's ridiculous in what I said about the states lowering the age of consent. It's a contributing factor. They have reduced their responsibility. Any politician who has agreed that the age of consent is 14 should be casterated. They are not protecting the children.>> You talk about responsibility, but only on the state's behalf, not yours as a parents or on behalf of the teenager who chooses to have sex. And again WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN. You cannot always think of them as your little baby boy or girl. They grow up.
<<A juvenile rape charge carries a much higher penalty than an adult rape charge. So, under their state laws anyone who rapes a 14 year old may only receive 5 years in prison -vs- a juvenile rape sentence of 10 years.>> It would be a good arguement if not for one flaw. IT'S NOT RAPE!

WE... ARE... TALKING... ABOUT... TEENAGERS... WHO... WILLINGLY... PARTICIPATE... IN... SEXUAL... RELATIONS!

I imagine that manyof us in here have seen "BLACHAWK DOWN." Remember what those 14 year old Somalian boys were carrying? They weren't teddy bears, they were Soviet designed AK-74's. And they were pointed at our Rangers(whom, in retrospect, I should of tried out for through the Air Force instead of the marines who screwed me over in recruit training).

That's why I stockpile ammuntion by the crate the way I do. I not preparing for Armaggedon because alot of the Bible is B.S. and I'm not too concerned about Black helicopters and the UN taking control of the US because the vast majority of our servicmen would forcible oppose such a thing (subject for a different post). I'm worried about the next LA or Cincinatti riot. What would happen if OJ Simpson was found guilty? What if a high ranking official was killed? I do it because of all of those punks who would take take advantage of the situation. It's bad enough as it is in a rural area were kids shoot at privatley owned buildings and streetsigns and kidnap and mutilated people's pets. I already feel sorry for those poor bastards in California for reasons I won't get into in this post. Just remember that when they're looting your home or businsess or assaulting your loved ones, say, "Thank you Senator Fienstien!"

Meanwhile, when that 14 year old "child" points a gun at me, I'm gonna blow the back of his head off with my .45 Kimber and take his gun and ammo for myself.
Tim Phipps <Click and see my Kimber!>
Sunday, April 21, 2002 01:58:17 PM
IP: 207.177.117.4

Yeaa!!!! I get to spend the day with the Buick-trying to undo all the stupid, destructive things I did to her suspension the last two trips out there! Yippie!

As for replies...:

MetalDemon> Good post. I knew there was a reason I loved you *~_^* See, MC, our politics aren’t a problem because we have the same basic moral code-it is just the conclusions we’ve reached based on that moral code that don’t mesh.

Josh> Hitler day>As a jew...that was hysterical. Just offensive enough to be funny without actually suggesting that you hold any of those views.<<< Thank you. It was supposed to be a Mel Brooks style skewering. Too bad it got wiped so quickly :-( Some Jews--and especially non-Jews, since they don’t want to seem insensitive--get FURIOUS about this kind of humor. Others love it. Mel Brooks is awesome ;-) The racial purity tree, or whatever, is a Christmas tree, probably decorated... strangely.

Patrick> Good points all.

<<<I do however have zero and I mean _ZERO_ sympathy for people who are promiscuous and get STD's. If they want to do what they want with their bodies, fine. That's a-okay, but they better take responsibility for their actions.>>>> Same here. I’ve even watched family members slowly waist away and die like concentration camp victims, but if you get AIDS, I’m gonna give you a big ass mirror with the words “stupid” written on it (course, they got AIDS back in the day it was called GRIDS, so I don‘t blame him).

MC >>>I think everyone should be put on mandatory birth control.... until they are in their mid twenties, then have to pass a parenting test before being allowed to be fertile.>>>> Umm... not a LITTLE bit 1984ish to you? And when they get pregnant anyway? I can imagine you‘re solution to THAT.

<<<At 16 I was well able to decide whether or not to have sex>>> Hooray for you. However, as the father of a 16 or 17 year old living under my roof, I would *want* to be able to throw some older guy screwing my daughter into jail. What about parents rights? As Jan said, this is about PROTECTING children, not keeping them abstinent-eroding these laws puts children in further danger and chips away at parents control over their offspring-and I’m against that.

With Planned Parenthood handing out free condoms to underage children and going into the schools informing kids they can get an abortion without mommy or daddy knowing (and providing said abortion), no WONDER parents don’t know what they’re kids are up to! I think it is high time we empowered parents to KNOW what they’re kids are doing!

Besides, not all sixteen year olds are as mature as you think you were. It is easy for an older person to manipulate someone this young. You don’t seem to appreciate the lasting damage that would be done to a 16 year old girl or boy molested by a malicious older man or women (even someone who is just 18). I’ve actually been ‘molested’ by an older boy when I was pretty young (I never thought of it that way before, but that’s basically what it was). But my parents weren’t stupid-I never saw that kid again. But I was raised with a strong family-few people today are.

Just an aside: why don’t you ever hear about WOMEN child molesters???-I’ve hear horror stories about camps were 20 year olds love to pray on the 14-15 year old girls

<<<>> Jan is right-children tend to idolize the people presented to them in the media as glamorous. And when those people are running around in next to nothing (Shakira?) or sleeping around with EVERYONE (any sitcom, particularly teenage melodrama’s and MTV’s representation of the “real world”) they’re views of sex are going to be skewed. Which brings me to you’re next point....:

<<<Teens today have more freedom, more money, and more opportunity than their predecessors have ever had>>> Only because parents GIVE their children more freedom. My parents wouldn’t let me fuck my little girlfriend in high school. But other parents are to busy--shouldn’t be having kids in the first place--and unable/UNWILLING to supervise. A lot of adults have the same view-they’re going to do it anyway, why bother trying?

You’re right; children are ruled by their hormones. That is why society and parents are supposed to keep them safe until they’re old enough to make decisions on their own. Lowering the age of consent just chips away at this protective structure further.

IMPFAC
Sunday, April 21, 2002 01:39:23 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Hyperion - I remember you, btw.

Thanks for the links; I'll be sure to read up on the guy. In any case, I already had the WHO health sheet (and a DoD fact sheet that included case studies of vets carrying DU fragments in their bodies).

Note.
DU releases 60% of the radiation released by enriched uranium.
DU burns at low tempertures. It's one of the things that makes it such an effective weapon; air friction causes the outer surface of the penetrator to oxidise(sp), giving a tracer effect, and the thermal energy of impact results in rapid combustion igniting fuel and ammo. Unfortunately, this results in the penetrator converting to particulate uranium oxide, producing a couple pounds of it per shot.
The WHO's case study for exposure was Kosovo; a rainy area covered with mountians and forests. We used FAR more DU in the Gulf war (about 800 tons), in an environment where rain is unlikely to wash the dust from the air and the only windbreaks likely to collect the dust are cities.

Reportedly, Iraq has seen a seven-fold increase in rare birth defects, and soil samples taken indicate greatly increased background radiation.

*still researching*
Gunjack "Killing Irony" Valentine
Sunday, April 21, 2002 01:33:43 PM
IP: 192.133.129.4

Legal Adult -- I think 16 would be a good starting point for being a legal adult. Both to be tried for crimes as an adult, being able to vote, being able to have a full drivers license, join the military, etc.

I don't think people give teenagers the credit or the punishment they deserve as young adults. I think if 16 year olds were able to legally vote, we'd see a lot more interest by teens in the electoral process, in government, etc. I know a lot of teens blow off things like civic interest because it has absolutely nothing to do with them. But if they were legal adults and were started on voting, taxes, and jobs earlier, they'd take a lot more of the responsibilities of adulthood earlier and be the better for it. I think it would be great if you could enter the military at 16 too. Get an early start on life, and have plenty of time for college and stuff after.

May sound wierd, but I think a couple of years of basic military service for everyone might be a good idea. I wish I'd gone into the military young everytime I see how great some of my friends who did so turned out. It gave them so much structure.

I think being legal at 16 would also help in the job market. A lot of 16 year olds want and/or need part-time to full time work, but being legally adult gives you an edge in getting decent work.

Just my opinion, but I think if 16 year olds had the responsibility and penalties as well as the perks of being a legal adult, we'd see a lot more stable 18 year olds by the time highschool graduation/college kicks in.

As for sex. I don't approve of young adults having sex with people way older than themselves, but I also don't think it's right that a person 18+ can be nailed to the wall for having sex with a 16+ teen. And there are cases where an 18 year old gets dragged through the courts for statutory for having sex with their 17 or 16 year old partner, when both were equally consenting.

Britney Spears (sp?) I think it's laughable to blame her for promiscuity young people. Seeing a girl in sexy clothes singing and dancing on tv isn't going to make a teenager suddenly say, "Wow, I'm going out to have underage sex because Brittney did a faux strip tease at the MTV music awards" -- 1) Brittany is "legal" and can wear or not wear whatever she wants. 2) Sexy clothes are not the root of sexual promiscuity. I grew up on Madonna, and it didn't make me jump into bed any sooner than when I was willing to do so. And for all people decry the evil of Brittany, she has nothing on Madonna who in her teen years was the rock and roll trampy vixen queen.

I'd really like to know anyone here who can honestly say seeing sexy MTV girls and guys dressed latex or thongs or whatever, made them have underage sex. Because I think that is such crock. In the really old days, they tried to make Jane Russel the poster girl for evil promiscuity because she wore a tight dress that showed off her large chest, and the decline of moral fabic of society was heralded as being caused 'black'(oh that evil jazz) music being allowed to be played and listened to by white teenagers.

It's really an age old scapegoat mentality. Have something you think is immoral or just want to complain about? Blame whatever popular entertainment music and/or sexy actress / musician that happens to be most popular/well known at the time.

"Jacob, the young people are getting rowdy and degenerate"

"Yes, it's the influence of the unholy pagans' music, and the scantily clad priestesses at the temple of the golden calf's fault"

Ah well... Sun's out and I have tons of chores to get to. Mow the lawn... or do cat boxes? Scylla or Charybdis?

I'd rather be writing smutty fan fics >^,,^< sigh...

Mooncat

Mooncat
Sunday, April 21, 2002 01:17:59 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Due to some family issues, I'm really not in the mood for a long post, even though I partially instigated the whole debate. So instead I'm going to post some links and go eat.

First up, for the kiddie porn debate an article about abolishing the age of consent
**********WARNING**********
absolutely not for kids. No really. If your first thought was "oh, Mommy/Daddy isn't going to like me reading this", go away!
Hmm... I think even the link is technically a violation of the rules...ok it's not getting put in the body, but in that nifty URL thing at the end of the post.

For the post by Gunjack:
A bit of a bio about the author:
Anti-war activist, conscientious objector, and does not believe that there was ever a successful intercept of a SCUD by a Patriot during the war.
http://www.afsc.org/youthmil/200104/mygulfwar.htm

In addition a bit of background on depleted uranium from the World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/inf-fs/en/fact257.html

Although, personally, the guy looses all credibility with the comment about the Patriot, y'all can draw your own conclusions. I should note I haven't checked his references so it may be accurate...
However, please pay attention to the section on how quickly DU is removed from the body after any kind of ingestion...

Ok, time for a burrito...

***************************
"You intend to achieve immortality? Like through your work?"
"If I have to. I'd rather achieve it through, you know, NOT DYING!"

Hyperion - [hyperion@justice.com]
Sunday, April 21, 2002 01:10:44 PM
IP: 151.199.237.22

Josh - <<Well that depends on which law you follow. In many states, that poor football player gets charged with statutory (sp?). >> That is a bunch of crap. Show me ONE case where this has happened where both parties (same age) consented. I think the biggest issue is the ability of the teens to handle the CONSEQUENCES of sex. My sister in law was 15 when she got pregnant by the "poor football player". He was 18 and could care less if she needed help. Her mother ends up raising the kid while she finishes high-school. Father is a big fat ex-football loser in a small town and buys himself a car to waste his money on instead of helping with the child. I, personally, would have filed charges of statutory rape against him. Bastard. And she would STILL be grounded. (she's 24 or so now, married to another man and has 2 more kids and one on the way... she's a breeder, but with her education level it's all she really knows how to do.) Okay okay... I'm ranting now. Bottom line is... she wasn't mature enough or self supporting enough to make such a decision, and the bastard should have gone to jail because he was old enough to know better. Also, ANY 30 year old who has sex with a 15 year old A)needs to have their head examined, because they are obviously unstable B) needs to be locked up so that they don't victimize other 15 year olds. 12 year olds getting pregnant probably has a LOT to do with the fact that their parents don't talk to them between the 12 hour work days they both work. We can't continue to let TV raise our children.

<<Lain: Maybe they'll send YOU to afghanistan and see if your opinion on them changes any.>> OH GODS!! We can only hope!! That would be poetic justice.

Jan: <<So, no... the age of consent laws are not going to stop Susie and Trey from having sex under the bleachers - it was never intended for that... but it will give some intent in protecting 13 year old Lisa from being used in a kiddie porn flic and sexually abused by 30 yr old Mark for the "entertainment" value. >> EXACTLY!! <<If the media does not have any influence, then why have our morals changed so much over the years? I'm not saying that it's a bad thing - but I do think that the "media" should take greater responsibility in what they produce.>> I am a strong advocate of "If you don't like it, change the channel". But with so many people NOT raising their children, then it sadly gives this argument validity. We can't continue to make laws to take over the roll of a parent. On the upside... since the invention of Television and it's mass marketing, we haven't had a world war. Bring the world to the front lines and they are less likely to WANT to be there.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Sunday, April 21, 2002 11:59:06 AM
IP: 67.227.14.194

Greetings all. I will be posting more often soon. ISDN should soon be installed in my room.

Sexual Consent> Morality works for a lot of people and god bless them, but obviously that won't stop everyone or most people.

Mooncat> I like your birth control idea. Granted the Church has its restrictions, but if someone isn't having sex while they are using birth control, a-okay, and for those not bound by any restriction, no excuses.

I still follow the moto: Sex can wait, masturbate.

My bloodlust is stronger than my sexual lust, but Ihave never killed anyone or even been in a fight.

I do however have zero and I mean _ZERO_ sympathy for people who are promiscuous and get STD's. If they want to do what they want with their bodies, fine. That's a-okay, but they better take responsibility for their actions.

Metaldemon> Well, that mentality of early marraiges and having kids so young is a major cause of poverty. If you're horny, you have a right hand and a left hand. As long as you aren't near any carzy glue, that is safe sex.

Jannie> It's good to agree with you, again.

I think a large problem is that we need to be taught to take responsibility for our actions. Cosnequences need to be part of teaching a chidl starting as early as possible. Hormones are the same as they always were among humans, though we don't take responsibility. I guess we are too spoiled and rely on those above us to baby us our whole lives. People can't afford a kid, so they get a government check. Someone gets a burning sensation when they urinate, so they get pennicillin. Well, someone shoudl teach them, it will still burn, and whenever I hear about such painful discahrges, I laugh. I find it amusing lowbrow humor.

When I spilled something as a kid, I got punished. Nowadays, we wipe up the mess and then the kid's guilty tears.

The issue of sexual morality is not a decision for our courts. Sexual responsibility is. And a 30 year old sleeping with a 16 year old is irresponsible. So is a guy who goes into the bathouses and gets all upset about catching AIDS. He knew the cosnequences and if he didn't, he's a dumbass and deserves a Darwin award.

Tim P.> I think you are the only Republican, white, black, Indian, Oriental, Latino, human, or feline, who thinsk OJ is innocent. I guess you also beleive Mark Fuhrman is looking for the real racist, and that its okay to put Michael Jackson in charge of a Boy's Town :)

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Hanau
Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:55:29 AM
IP: 140.156.6.2

The federal laws exist because the minute John Q. Pedophile gets on the telephone or hits the internet in search of his next 15 year old "consenting partner" (yeah, right), or transmits the snapshots he's taken of his last one across state lines, jurisdiction no longer belongs to the states, it belongs to the FBI. It's the same as the reasoning behind federal kidnapping and murder laws. All the states have laws against kidnapping and murder, too, but the federal government needs the "redundant" laws to have the power to catch those criminals who commit their crimes in multiple states or flee the jurisdiction in which the crime was committed. Eliminate the federal laws, and it will be open season for child porn traffickers, just as it would be for drug dealers if the federal drug laws were eliminated.

Also, I don't believe for a microsecond that 14 year old Susie is making an informed, mature decision of consent when she gives in to the "show me how much you love me" pressure being exerted by some honry middleaged pedophile. The age of consent laws exist in recognition of the fact that it's very easy to pressure young people into saying "yes" when a person of more advanced years and life experience would realize that a game is being played and say "no." An adult enters upon any situation involving a minor with an inherent level of authority already in place simply by virtue of being an adult. The mere fact that it's ethically wrong to abuse that position of power for one's own self gratification is not enough to keep the unethical from doing it anyway. It's also ethically wrong to steal, but bank robbers do it anyway. That's why society makes laws.

Are there ever cases where a 40-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl are truly involved in a loving, mutually consenting relationship? Possibly. One can never say never, I suppose. But does this represent the majority of interaction between older men who take a sexual interest in teenage girls and/or boys? I highly doubt it.
And as my final thought for right now, I'll add that I agree with the comment that there should be one set age where adulthood legally begins... and 18 sounds like a good spot to me.
Patrick Toman
Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:12:22 AM
IP: 66.72.199.40

The laws are not in place to prevent 14,15,16 year olds from having sex. They are there to _protect_ them. You will rarely see two 16 year olds arrested because they had sex... but you will see a 30 yr old arrested for having sex with a 14 yr od. Even at the ripe old age of 16, a person still does not have the maturity nor reasoning skills of someone who is 18. (there are always the exceptions, but those are more rare than common) But as I said - it's not about really preventing them from having sex but to protect them from those who are older who take advantage of their youth and inexperience.
It's naive and easy to say that media has nothing to do with the influence of today's society. How many young and pre-teens are trying to dress, act, and look like Brittany Spears? Where do the fashion trends come from? Before media was so easily accessed, fashion was based on need. Those who had some type of media or contact with society dressed and acted like what they saw or heard. If the media does not have any influence, then why have our morals changed so much over the years? I'm not saying that it's a bad thing - but I do think that the "media" should take greater responsibility in what they produce.
It's also not 100% of the media at fault. Parenting skills have declined dramatically over the past several years. With both parents working, more single parent homes, etc. it's much easier to allow your child to do as he pleases, go where ever they want, listen or watch whatever they want, etc. because the parent is just too dang tired to fight/argue with them or they are so tied up in their own world of instant gratification or competing with the Jones.... or they have fallen for these idiot child psychologist who have preached that if you discipline your child, you'll destroy their self-esteem and other such nonesense as that.
It is not the deeds of one that has contributed to decaying of our society, it's a combination of many.

Josh> no, I don't feel it's ridiculous in what I said about the states lowering the age of consent. It's a contributing factor. They have reduced their responsibility. Any politician who has agreed that the age of consent is 14 should be casterated. They are not protecting the children. A juvenile rape charge carries a much higher penalty than an adult rape charge. So, under their state laws anyone who rapes a 14 year old may only receive 5 years in prison -vs- a juvenile rape sentence of 10 years.

So, no... the age of consent laws are not going to stop Susie and Trey from having sex under the bleachers - it was never intended for that... but it will give some intent in protecting 13 year old Lisa from being used in a kiddie porn flic and sexually abused by 30 yr old Mark for the "entertainment" value.

Metaldemon> excellent points *nods*

Now I'm off to get dressed and head to Silver Dollar City in Branson. :) First trip there this season. Zach will also have his first stroller ride - I hope he likes it. I'm NOT going to carry him around all day. *chuckles*
Jan
Sunday, April 21, 2002 09:23:54 AM
IP: 12.110.237.8

Still no answer to my question for the CR Admins. But, there are some hours left...

Jan:> I'm glad you understand my current state of mind. I eventually understand your remark upon someone's sense of humor. But, some things can be offensive and upsetting even if said for joke. Usually, if I want to say a joke that I know can be offensive for someone, I warn before saying it, and ask if for anyone of those who are listening is all right that I say such a joke. And, if after making the joke I realize anyone was offended, I apologize and avoid making the same joke in future. Consequently, I don't post potentially offensive jokes in public forums, since I don't know who is reading the forum itself. (Plus, I never found anything amusing in racist jokes...). Now, the person who posted that racist propaganda into here, as far as I've seen didn't say or made understand that he was joking. Plus, after seeing that someone was offended by his comments, not only he didn't apologize, but eventually trew accuses of antisemitism. Now, all these things are not particularily upsetting for me...after all, racists are hidden everywhere, and I cannot expect from them a polite, educated behaviour. But, in this CR there are four Admins who are supposed to deal with such things. Instead, they applauded to racist ideas, and ignored those who were offended. It is not the way, at least so it seems to me. Believe me, I wouldn't like to leave the CR, that is sure. But in such a situation I cannot see an alternate choice. I cannot stay in a place where hypocrasy is the standard, racism has free access, and the rules are applied just for some people. If I cannot change the situation, my only choice is to leave. I would be sad for the friends I have here, but I would see no alternate choice.
Oh, since we are here...I must ask you to send me again your email address...I had to format the HD due to a virus attack, and I lost all the addresses...

Spacebabie:> << .>>> I detest racism tooo but SJ is not a rascist hes a an ASSist in other words he is an ass a smartass a wiseass and at times a dumbass.>> And so, he can say whatever he wants, and go away with it? While I, for example, must watch my tougue, and care for what I say? I'm sorry, I cannot accept your consideration as a justification. The rules of the CR must apply for everyone, not just for someone. See also my reply to Jan, above, for a better explanation.
<< Me too! I’d like to see Ariana try to convince her mother try to dress as Sailor Pluto cause she reminds me of Setsuna. >> Hmmm...you suggested me a scene for a future fanfic...when I wil have tome to resume writing...

Green Baron:> I'm sorry, but I had to format the HD due to a virus attack, and many emails, including your last one, went lost. Could you please resend it?

"Io sono come Dio / E gli uomini li rifarei / Come ora / Occhi per non vedere / Bocche per non parlare / Meglio così"

"Se la terra è tonda / E se il mare è blu / Da che mondo è mondo / Il forte vince e non sei tu"

"Nessuno salvò nessuno con la spada"

"-Tutto ciò che accade tu lo scrivi?"
"-Tutto ciò che io scrivo accade."

Shadowrider - [shdwrdr@tiscali.it]
Sunday, April 21, 2002 06:39:08 AM
IP: 62.10.2.110

Hmmm... almost forgot to mention I went and picked up a laptop today. *^_^* yay! Now I won't be computer deprived when I go to the Gathering this year.

The major plus is that I'll be able to work on my writing in places other than my office, *happy dance* so I can go hang out with friends AND work on fan fic at the same time. Yay!!!

MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, April 21, 2002 05:02:01 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

stumbled across a few disturbing facts while researching a paper.

Was anyone else aware that the US (and the brits, and the Israelis) routinely uses weapons of mass destruction?
Gunjack "Bitter as Wormwood" Valentine
Sunday, April 21, 2002 04:49:56 AM
IP: 192.133.129.4

Rats, missed the top ten. Ah well, saw some fantastic anime today, so I guess it was worth not using my computer for the better part of the day.

Age of Consent -- Actually, I think 16 should be legal. At 16 I was well able to decide wether or not to have sex, and I deliberately chose not to have sex because I was convinced the risk of pregnancy was too great. That is what kept me a virgin until I was twenty something. And law or not, a 16 year old will either decide to have sex or decide not to have sex based on their personal call, and not wether it's legal or not.

When I was sixteen, many people in my age group or younger had already had sex, and whether it was legal or not was never a consideration to them. The major considerations were how scared of pregnancy and/or disease you were versus desire and opportunity.

Do I think a 16 year old should hook up with some horny old person? No way. ewww. But I don't think the law should prosecute people who have consenting sex with sexually mature individuals, which I think many 16 year olds are.

Of course, some people aren't mature at 16, or 18, or however old they get. Personally, I think everyone should be put on mandatory birth control as soon as they are capable of breeding, until they are in their mid twenties, then have to pass a parenting test before being allowed to be fertile.

But sex? In many places, including the UK, 16 is legal. I think the US should realize 16 year olds are sexually mature, and in a lot of cases, sexually active, and deal with it by educating them on safe sex, birth control and disease prevention. No law is going to keep a horny sixteen year old who has decided to become sexually active from going out and finding a sex partner. For good or ill, that is merely a fact of life.

As for why young people are experimenting with sex in their teens, it is not society/the media's fault. That is a very lame excuse. It's the easy way to avoid the fact that teens have experimented with sex since before accidently seeing someone's bare ankles was considered hot stuff. I think we see more sex today simply because there is more opportunity. Teens know how to rent rooms, or use a friend's empty house, etc. In the old days all you had was the uncomfortable back of a car, which put a cramp (pun intended) into things.

Teens today have more freedom, more money, and more opportunity than their predecessors have ever had. It's not because of the sexy entertainments that so many teens decide to explore sex. It's because part of being a teen is being full of hormones that make a lot of them more apt to think with parts of the anatomy that are not above the neck. Some will let their intellect rule, and others won't. But if a teen decides to have sex, it's not because of what they saw on television, or the movies, or at a rock concert. It's because he or she has the desire and the opportunity for sex, and is ignoring the good reasons not to have sex that they have been just as exposed by the very same media and society so many people would blame.

hmmm... more of a soap box than I intended. I just really find it ridiculous when people try to blame the ills of the world on the media/entertainment culture. There was sex and crime and whatnot before tv /movies /rock and roll, and there will be sex and crime and whatnot if there was no tv /movies / rock and roll.

Well, that's my spiel for the evening.

later
Mooncat
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Sunday, April 21, 2002 04:39:49 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Hello folks.

Spent today doing two things: downloading dirty movies and writing a paper (rather incongruous, wouldn't you say?).

Happy 4-20, now everyone go get stoned.

Bill Gates will testify in the microsoft trial on Monday. He's expected to explain to the court how making a version of windows that doesn't bundle IE and MSM/N would cripple the economy. Yeah, right. The problem is, I think he really believes his own bullsh*t.

Hopefully it will be as entertaining as his last deposition, where he asked for clarifications of the definitions of the words "is" and "money".

You know, as much as I love california as a location, I really hate the politics of the place. Too many damn democrats and poor people, which makes it really difficult to run a business or even make a decent living as a salaried VP. But in this one case, I'm so proud to be living here. CA is one of the nine states that's refused to settle with Microsoft, refused to abide by any settlement with the justice department that they don't feel is strict enough.

replies

Impfac: <<Why are you so down on Yahoo?>>: Well, for one, they changed my marketing prefs so that they could send me all the spam they want, and I haven't been able to get in to change them. <<It is FREE!!>>: You get what you pay for. <<I'm damn impressed at what I get for nothing>>: You can get a lot more with other free services. Yahoo has started charging up to 30/month for simple stuff like email forwarding. Apple iTools, on the other hand, provides that feature, a 5 meg email account, 20 megs of disk space, a slew of other services for nothing (well, provided you own a mac). I don't trust web-based email in general, because its too easy for your information to be sold. And its not privacy I'm concerned with. It's junk mail. I hate it with a passion. <<so that it isn’t lost amongst all the commercialism that has so cheapened our once special holiday>>: LOL! Damn companies! Always trying to use the glory of hitler to sell shit. <<Aryan pride tree>>: What kind of tree is that? <<the destruction of the Jews>>: There are many places in the world that don't require a hitler day to remember that destruction of the jews is important. <<this is just a little JOKE>>: As a jew...that was hysterical. Just offensive enough to be funny without actually suggesting that you hold any of those views. <<if you’re not putting out (at any age) you’re some kind of freak>>: Conversely, there are many ways to put out that *also* mean you're some kind of freak ;-) <<Everyone ELSE is having sex, why aren’t you??>>: I"M STUCK IN BERKELEY! WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME, MTV!??!!? <<Don’t you want to be popular???>>: You mean I'm not?! <<in America there are no consequences to sex>>: Dennis Miller pointed out tonight that America is an instant-gratification-no-consquence society. You just hit the nail on the head with sex. <<made sex a hobby, not a commitment>>: thank god.

Lain: <<what was i planning to do this summer again>>: Maybe they'll send YOU to afghanistan and see if your opinion on them changes any.

Hyperion: <<studying for the MCSE is a pain>>: That's because Microsoft systems are a pain. Much easier to become an Apple certified tech. Of course, there's hardly as much demand for those. <<I'm going to be surprised of Josh doesn’t' make some kind of antt-Micro$oft/pro-Mac comment about that>>: I take almost every chance I get to bash M$. The fact that I read about Gates' testimony didn't lower your chances any. <<there's just a big gap and they your memory continues on unmolested? How the heck does that work?>>: It's called college. Think about it. Your memory works for about the last week of material, but before that its kind of a blur. <<Target that accent and fire!>>: Maybe they'll blow up the entire character. <<this chair is obvouly not designed to throw one's head back in maniacal laugher and remain upright>>: I thought that was rather funny myself, thanks. <,I only draw my weapon if my life is about to end so it evens out>>: I draw mine when I'm about to get laid.

Patrick: <<You know, the PG rating is supposed to apply to the language in the signature quotes, too.>>: Terribly sorry. I usually filter that better. Not intentional. <<remembers fondly the days when the PG rating used to be enforced and it was safe to view this comment room during lunchtime via the internet at work>>: Why wait till lunch? Oh and by the way...its Saturday. <<You seem to be saying that since some teens are promiscuous, all of them should be fair game>>: No, he isn't. He's saying that its difficult to legislate "when" they should be fair game. Hell, most fathers I know would rather the age of consent be 24 for THEIR little girls. (and when I say little girl I mean it in the fatherly viewpoint, not the legal/porn viewpoint). <<every kid wants to lose their virginity by 15 and be "average,">>: Um, yeah. Where were YOU in high school. <<whether a 15 year old girl loses it to her 15 year old football player boyfriend or to a leering, middleaged guy who chats her up over the internet is irrelevant>>: Well that depends on which law you follow. In many states, that poor football player gets charged with statutory (sp?). <<If a person isn't legally old enough at age 16 to buy cigarrettes, drink alcohol, or vote, then he/she is not old enough yet to make a mature, informed decision about having sex, either>>: I agree with you in part. There should be *one* age for all that stuff. Smoking at 18, sex at 16, and drinking at 21 make no sense to me. The magical age should have driving, voting, and a slew of other activities thrown in as well. But it's just too hard to set a standard that everyone's gonna follow.

Tim: <>: Depends on what the consent is for. There has to be some border where sex is just inappropriate. Don't ask me where that is, though. <<The Age of Consent in Iowa is 16 so it's not so bad here. In South Carolina and Hawaii it's 14>>: 18 in CA. <>: LOL! Have they been using that as an excuse not to sleep with you? <<Am I the onlt white Republican male in America that thinks that OJ might actually be innocent?>>: Yes. <<As if none of you ever looked at Japanes hentai, You folks talk about it half the time in here>>: Guilty as charged. But then again I'm the only one in here who admits to having nearly 50 gigs of dirty movies. <<Just the stats, Mac>>: I dunno about you guys, but when *I* was 15 the *only* thing I thought about was losing my virginity. <<Teenagers are sick, twisted, dangerous animals>>: Definitely. I'll miss being one. <<They get drunk, steal cars, sell drugs, harass police, damage public and private property a shoot up heroin if not each other>>: I have never stolen a car... <<a culumnation of roughly 5 million years of evolution>>: And despite 10,000 years of us blaming it on someone else, we haven't changed a bit.

I'm rarely in agreement with Tim...but in this case I think he's got some good points.

Jan: <<the question to ask here is why?>>: Because sexual urges start early. It's a biological trait, and no amount of legislation, no number of southern republicans is gonna stop that. <<Why are 12 year olds becoming parents?>>: Because they aren't educated enough to use birth control. <<Because we as a society have desensitized ourselves to the point that it's not even shocking anymore to hear these ages>>: I don't think that's it. Just because society isn't desensitized doesn't mean teenagers care less about becoming pregnant or getting someone else pregnant. <<The states that have lowered their age of consent below 18 should be ashamed of themselves and have contributed to the demise of moral society>>: Don't you think that's just a bit rediculous? Where is the difference between a 17 year old and an 18 year old? Hell, I was more mature at 9 than most adults will ever be. I really doubt that because a state has a consent age of 16 that they are contributing to the moral decay of society. Drugs contribute to the moral decay of society. Hollywood contributes to the moral decay of society. Democrats, even. But sex with with 16 year olds? That might be a bit of a stretch. Now, I know what happens to people when they have sex before they're psychologically ready...but there is no way to legislate it. <>: I don't think I want to know. <>: Despite Mooncat's insistence, you don't need to apologize.

Metaldemon: <<being exposed to viloence as the only way to solve anyting on TV and movies>>: It's not just TV and movies. What about the government? We go off and fight a war over a few cents rise in gas prices at the pump. And what about high school, where kids are physically and psychologically bullied every day? Violence is a way of life in human civilization. It has been since we crawled out of the trees. It's not changing any time soon. <<Sex is glamorized and made to be the cool thing to do>>: If you don't agree, you obviously aren't doing it right. <<soon, it becomes devoid of any meaning and is nothing more than a means to an end for pleasure and gossip>>: ...or at all (I'm just kidding, relax). <<You never see them advocating celibacy, or waiting for marriage>>: I think the reality is that people are giving up trying to get teenagers to have sex. We aren't mature enough (as a group) to control our raging hormones.

'drake: They aren't coming. Stop asking.

DPH: <<there are some people in the CR who agree with him about sexual morals>>: And some others that will argue tooth and nail against them. <<The only questions are how often and where these hackers search for email addresses>>: That would depend on how much they're getting paid for them. <<haven't people heard of "True Love Waits">>: That's for people that believe in love, or think that love will find them. <>: As the baby boomers become grandparents, I expect that their ratings will rise. <<Not the answer I was looking for, but a half-way decent answer>>: Glad to be of disservice. <<During an earlier generation, the biggest problems at school was chewing gum under seats, but discrimination was rampant. Would anyone call that "the good old days" for schools?>>: Good call.

Lady Amalthea: Welcome. Thank you for not asking about TGS. You may stay. Where in CA are you from?

Alright, I think I'll play some starcraft before crashing. My Wife for Hire! No, no, that's not right. My life for Aiur!

Bork bork bork.
-Mike Margolis

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kickothenuts.com]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Sunday, April 21, 2002 03:51:21 AM
IP: 64.161.25.122

Patrick Toman: <<You seem to be saying that since some teens are promiscuous, all of them should be fair game.>> If a teenager chooses to sex with someone in his/her age group, it's still the same potentially risky behavior as with an older person. <<And that there shouldn't be any laws at all to protect children from being abused and taken advantage of by adult pedophiles.>> First, whose talking about children? I'm talking about TEENAGERS. Second, I was talking about FEDERAL laws. Many States have a surplus of child protection laws. And if you're not satified with the laws in your area, petition and support legislation. That's how democracy works. As far as federal laws are concerned, it's inherently dangerous for a government to enforce a state endorsed sense of psychological and behavioral normality in a nation as geographically large and culturly diverse as ours no matter how benevolent it may seem. Leave it up to the states and local communities to decide what is obscene and perverse in their area. The Federal government's job is to provide a civil defence and protect the *general* welfare of it's citizens, not to keep some old guy's hand off your little Suzie because she wouldn't wait for the Earth to revolve around the Sun enough times before having sex.
<<Because after all, every kid wants to lose their virginity by 15 and be "average,">> (In his best Jack Webb) Just the stats, Mac.
<<So tell me... what color is the sky in your world?>> It depends on the weather and time of day.
<<If a person isn't legally old enough at age 16 to buy cigarrettes, drink alcohol, or vote, then he/she is not old enough yet to make a mature, informed decision about having sex, either.>> But they still do those those things. And for Most of those things, they get punished as a negative consequence. But if they have sex with full consent on their behalf, they rarely get punished by the law. In fact, they usually get classified as a victim!

Again I'd like to emphasize that I'm not talking about young children or those pathetic wackos who hang around preschool parking lots. I'm talking about Teenagers. Teenagers are sick, twisted, dangerous animals. They even treat those they consider friends in such a vulgar manner it would make the "South Park" kids blanch. They get drunk, steal cars, sell drugs, harass police, damage public and private property a shoot up heroin if not each other!

"But have sex? That's too horrible! I can't believe that they would wilingly do that!" Oh, please.

And to those who blame societies ills on mass media for the amount of vice in the world, I say Bullsh-t. For centuries people have either said that media influences society or the media reflects society. The answer lies in what we are. I'm not just talking our civilization, our society, or our history. It involves those things and others but I specifically mean us humans in term as a species, right down to our DNA. The great primate Homo sapien is afterall, a culumnation of roughly 5 million years of evolution.

Allow me to illucidate by pointing out to another member of the animal kingdom, the African Lion. IF a new alpha male takes over the pride, he will kill all of the cubs sired by the previous alpha male. Why does he commit this act of feline infanticide? Where did he get this idea. What media outlit does he have access to that he understands. Certainly not among other lions. Lions don't even have a written language unless you want to include the way the mark their territory. Maybe he saw "The Lion King" and thought what Uncle Scar did was a good idea? Not likely. He does it to maintain genetic dominance in the pride. Parallels are seen throughout the animal kindom and human history even before written language. The Vikings would murder, rape, pillage and burned whatever that was left, as did the icelandic explorers that their football team was named after.
Tim Phipps
Sunday, April 21, 2002 03:24:11 AM
IP: 207.177.117.4

Hello to all. I'm new in here, so please feel free to ask me questions about myself.
Lady Amalthea
CA, USA
Sunday, April 21, 2002 01:33:37 AM
IP: 66.27.85.63

*DPH looks around and feels better knowing that there are some people in the CR who agree with him about sexual morals.*

Origin of spam: I have my own theory about how you get spam to email addresses never listed *anywhere* on the net. Hackers harvest email addresses from email providers and sell the lists. No email provider would admit in public that its list of email addresses were copied by hackers. The only questions are how often and where these hackers search for email addresses.

I get sick of the people who argue against teaching absistence at all. Sorry, but haven't people heard of "True Love Waits", a campaign where teenagers vowed not to have sex until they were married? Ultimately, in today's society, sex is about instant gratification, not delayed gratification.

We live in a microwave society where everything has to be ready here-and-now. Things like homecooked meals from scratch are rapidly disappearing. I even wonder what kind of ratings the Food Network can expect to maintain over the next 10 years.

*Aims gun at DC for earlier causing him problems staying online.*

I'm looking to acquire a device that will alter minds throughout space. Why? So I can zap all the CR villians (including the unknown ones) at once into being paranoid of interferring with my internet connection and being paranoid of committing suicide and/or killing one another. That way, I can be sure that *my* internet connection remainds safe.

*aims gun at 'drake, then decides to put the gun away.* Ok, since that is the first time that question has been asked since the room wipe, I'll answer. Timedancer season 4 is being worked on. Yes, the progress is slow and TGS is probably on life-support, but Timedancer season 4 will be published, even if I have to make deals to delay the end of time until after Timedancer season 4 is completely published.

Lurkers, did you hear that? TIMEDANCER SEASON 4 WILL BE PUBLISHED EVEN IF DPH HAS TO MAKE DEALS TO DELAY THE END OF TIME UNTIL AFTER TIMEDANCER IS PUBLISHED.

Tim - Thanks. Anyone else know anything?

Imzadi - <Why would you want to save people?> I don't know, maybe because I'm a moralist. <Depends when you have each one.> Not the answer I was looking for, but a half-way decent answer. <So what should we call it?> Let's see: The Amoral German Span of Control.

Patrick - <:: remembers fondly the days when the PG rating used to be enforced and it was safe to view this comment room during lunchtime via the internet at work ::> Wasn't that also during the time of RPing with lots of V-I-O-L-E-N-C-E? I am not picking on violence, but every generation had its ups and downs. During an earlier generation, the biggest problems at school was chewing gum under seats, but discrimination was rampant. Would anyone call that "the good old days" for schools?

*needs to get to sleep within the hour*

DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, April 21, 2002 01:11:39 AM
IP: 204.94.193.63

hey. i was just wondering when the heck these new episodes are coming out or if they're not coming out after all. sorry to be abrupt (and slightly rude).please note the email address and please email me to tell me because i can't get online-usually- but i can email!!!
'drake - [firedrake220@aol.com]
NY, NY, USA
Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:13:36 AM
IP: 205.188.192.58

9th!
Lady Amalthea
CA, US
Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:02:18 AM
IP: 66.27.85.63

TOP 10?, #10
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:45:40 PM
IP: 204.94.193.63

sorry, before I forget:

Jan> Ahhhh, that makes sense. Sounds reasonable [and it seems someone knows their history ;)]
metaldemon
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:45:35 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Now that I am all fired up 8D

Safe-sex campaign> Nothing angers me more than this pile lies. Here at UNT, the pro-choice club and FMLA usually pass out condoms to prevent the spread of pregnancies and disease. They pass out the illusion the sex with condomns will prevent disease and pragnancies all the time. Funny thing is, people under this illusion usually end up pregnant or with an STD. Why? Becasue it isn't 100%
You never see them advocating celibacy, or waiting for marriage (and if you want to get secular: waiting for a committment).
NOw that I think about it, in High School, our sex-ed programes never once advocated absitenance; it was always: "If you're going to have sex, wear a condom."

I look back and see how many of my graduating class ended up pregnant or having abopritons or with some STD....and not happy. Simply because organizations supported by Planned Parent-hood create the illusion that safe-sex is safe when it is not. Makes me wonder how much money Planned Parent Hood is milking off of ignorant teens.
metaldemon
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:43:58 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

To add to Jan's comment: In 1500, the average life expectancy was also around 35 to 40. Today, it's nearly double that... so to equate, people today should be waiting until their late 20s to get married.
Patrick Toman
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:41:40 PM
IP: 66.72.199.40

EIGHTH!!!!!!!
lain (because lynati, revel, gunjack, anigeal and emambu arent paying any attention :P)
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:31:47 PM
IP: 64.228.197.242

I agree with what has been said so far, but with some footnotes.

I get angry about how the media glamorizes sex. TV and movies make it clear that if you’re not putting out (at any age) you’re some kind of freak. Everyone ELSE is having sex, why aren’t you?? Don’t you want to be popular???? That is the basic message behind MTV, and every other media outlet that targets children age 12-18-and it is totally irresponsible.

The safe sex campaign has taught children (not teenagers-we’re starting when they’re younger and younger now) that if you put on a condom NOTHING can touch you. I don’t think that is a positive message what so ever, and it is far from the truth.

But there is still the question: why are people such... well, sluts? We’ve already said the media/society glamorizing sex, and that is true. Then they’re is the destruction of the American nuclear family-that too contributes.

But you’re missing a BIG one: the pill, and abortion. The fact is, in America there are no consequences to sex. The sexual revolution, and later Roe, made sex a hobby, not a commitment. It took away the value of sex. It isn’t anything special-it’s just something people do for fun. Consequences? What consequences? Enjoy yourself!

But, I’m just a grumpy 19 year old foggy, so ignore me ;-)

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:30:03 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

I interupt the countdown for the following response:

Metaldemon> <<it was common place in pre-modern (before 1500) times for girls to be wed and preganant by 14. In fact, I think it might be commonplace in rural Latin America. >> that was because of need... 1. the population was not as high as it is now, 2. children in those days were more mature than they are now because of the hardships they endured and 3. usually it was the poor families that allowed their daughters to wed at such a young age - too many mouths to feed and the sooner they could marry off the females, the better for the ones still left at home. Males were not married off as quickly because they contributed to the farm work more than the girls did. I imagine that it's still pretty much the same reasons in the Latin American countries.

carry on ;)

Jan
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:20:52 PM
IP: 12.110.236.111

SIXTH! Gee, thanks for returing the favor and posting as two, metal demon.

Some boy friend...

IMPFAC
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:15:40 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Fifth!!!
metaldemon
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:10:03 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

I side with Jan and Patrick on this topic. Kids getting pregnant so young is shocking. Things like these truly scare me: kids learning how to shoot guns at early ages, having sex at early ages, being exposed to viloence as the only way to solve anyting on TV and movies. For the most part, I blame the media for the corruption of society (not the legality part, but the behavioral part).

Springer makes his money off of it, and so does the rest of the media. Sex is glamorized and made to be the cool thing to do; soon, it becomes devoid of any meaning and is nothing more than a means to an end for pleasure and gossip. Yeah, I hate TV for it's endorsement of sex and violence and watch as little of it as I can.

But, as Tim pointed out, I can't sit here and say I haven't contributed to the porn industry, doesn't mean I ain't tryin to stop forkin money to them though:D.

ANYWAYS. Here's one thing to consider: it was common place in pre-modern (before 1500) times for girls to be wed and preganant by 14. In fact, I think it might be commonplace in rural Latin America.
metaldemon
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:09:22 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

4th?
Brian - [thietje@aol.com]
Naches, WA, USA
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:04:36 PM
IP: 198.81.16.163

Whoa!

third!
Jan
Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:02:20 PM
IP: 12.110.236.111

Second!
Patrick Toman
Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:58:26 PM
IP: 66.72.199.40

First!
Josh
Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:57:38 PM
IP: 64.161.25.122