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Fire Storm> I could see Hudson dying from battle wounds. He would fight a galant fight, being the hero and then being carried back to the castle where he would die with his clan surrounding him. Hudson's death should be done with respect and dignity.
Jan
Saturday, May 18, 2002 10:13:05 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Imzadi: <The guys on Flight 93 (?) were heroes. The rest...lazy.>
Well, up until that point, people thought that if terrorists took over an airplane, you just give them what they want and no one would have been hurt.
If the people on Flight 93 didn't hear the news about New York and the Pentagon, I doubt they would have done anything.

Ok, I am going to break from topic and ask a Gargoyles question:
How and when should Hudson die?
Now, don't get me wrong, I really like Hudson, but aside from battles, he would be the first gargoyle to die.
I say it should be after he retires from actually going into the field, and after the trio's first batch of eggs hatch. A nice, peacefull death.

LM mentioned to me that she sees him falling off the cliff at the former site of Castle Wyvern.

Future Tense had him dieing fighting Xanatos, and I killed him (and quite a few others) with a nuke...
Anyone else want to give their input?

Here's another Gargoyles topic:
Lexington: Cybernetics or not?
Fire Storm
Saturday, May 18, 2002 06:44:32 PM
IP: 216.254.103.139

dph> it wasn't a case of racism; it was a case of "we don't want to help non-christians;" the attitude of which is prevailent (though not among all).

Lain> I am wearing my tam (rasta hat) as we speak :).
metaldemon - [<----funny comic, I love this cartoonist!]
Saturday, May 18, 2002 06:10:23 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Metaldemon - I got your email. You have to be joking about basing your claim off of something that happenned 30 years ago. 30-40 years ago, churches were far from perfect because of racism.

Green Baron - <Mother Teresa's order tried to set up a shelter in pre-Giuliani NYC. She needed to set up an elevator in the shelter for the city to approve it. The cost would undermine her efforts to help the poor and her nuns
would simply carry the people up the stairs if they were infirm (nuns gotta stay in shape to deal with bratty kids). In the end, she didn'ts et that one up, though her order has a home in the Bronx. The buerecrats said she didn't understand their sense of compassion. Well, thats one thing I don't want to understand.> I have heard about that incident. You would have thought they could have let her have an exception to that rule.

Lain - <gotta find a vets to see if its male of female.. and see about shots and all that good stuff.> I thought you knew the difference between a female cat and a male cat. It involves anatomy.

Imzadi - <First of all, I don't have to be smart. All I need
to do is go to bugtraq and find a hole in your version of winblows that hasn't been fixed yet. Second of all, just because I'm not a hacker doesn't mean I don't know some 8-)> ::keeps working to get Imzadi to admit to tampering with his computer so he can get Imzadi charged with a crime:: You don't have the guts to do it and besides, how could you prove it was you who messed up my computer?

Mooncat - thanks for the description.

::Goes off to make a nap::

::Awakes from a short nap::

It's time to make the grass shorter in my yard.
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, May 18, 2002 05:05:37 PM
IP: 204.94.193.31

Real post later..probably after the top ten.
Fic is up
Oh click my name and pull out a 20 dollar bill. Saw this website on the news lastnight. It's freaky.
Spacebabie
Saturday, May 18, 2002 02:12:37 PM
IP: 64.159.110.26

\\|//
{^_&} ~HI all. I love Gargoyles.

today, happy can find the Gargoyles picture.

i live in Hong Kong, my english is no good!!

i know the story is good! (animation Gargoyles)
but i can not finish see all. >_(
In HK not easy to find Gargoyles picture and ...flies to see!

Hi all. happy to see you. see love Gargoyles too people.
hosun - [hosun@hkgod.org]
Hong kong
Saturday, May 18, 2002 01:15:41 PM
IP: 61.15.136.230

Tis a great day for being alive. Tis a great day for singing a song...and some other quotes from "Scent of A Woman" Hoo ha!!

Lain> I'm happy to see you posting again and the kitty has a new home. You know when I visit the Eastern Seaboard next year, I will be giving your cat a visit, too.

Warpmind the Viking Raider> Well, Spacebabie is a virgin and she is a few months older than me. I don't think I'm the second oldest. DPH is older than me and so is Patrick. Now when Patrick meets Moonkitty, that my change ;)

Niamhgold> Yes, I thought it was a fun little joke.

Metaldemon> Don't those beleifs even though optional make you wonder about becoming a Rastafarian. I always thought that it was about smokin de grass, mon.

Cherry Blossom> Be careful in Israel. As long as that scarf-headed weasel leads the Palestinians, things will be tense. I would like to go to the Church of the Nativity, but I think I'll wait until...times are safer....well, it was a nice thought.

Aaron> Be careful what you say of Natalie Portman. The asshole king will execute you for balsphemy :) She was funny on Letterman.

Jannie> Here's a perfect example of red tape. Mother Teresa's order tried to set up a shelter in pre-Giuliani NYC. She needed to set up an elevator in the shelter for the city to approve it. The cost would undermine her efforts to help the poor and her nuns would simply carry the people up the stairs if they were infirm (nuns gotta stay in shape to deal with bratty kids). In the end, she didn'ts et that one up, though her order has a home in the Bronx. The buerecrats said she didn't understand their sense of compassion. Well, thats one thing I don't want to understand.

Metaldemon> Well, I'm guessing this was a generic Christian Church, and with those you gotta do research. They cna be selective. At least with bigger organizations, their selectiveness is known and research can be very improtant, plus some charities have way too much overhead and they are good only for catering agenices. I'd say go with the organizatiosn you know and trust.

Spacebabies> <<Green Baron is the CR Whore ;)>> I don't understand that. You're hornier than I am, afterall.

Patrick> The Catholic restriction is not as absolute. One, it is against contraception and how much against is specualtive. Also, a Catholic can get birth control pills for cramps or menstrual regualtion. Also, most Catholics in America and Europe have no issue with contraception.

Also, some striuct sects of Orthodox Jews and Muslims don't use contraception either. The only real problem I see is that natural birth control methdos are not as effective and need more work done. Once natural means of birth control have effectiveness rates equal to contraception, the whole issue will be rather useless.

<<example, a Christian faith-based charity is perfectly within their rights to say "Jews and Muslims need not apply">> Well, the Catholic Eucharist is restricted, but anyoen can get a blessing by the priest. And some exclusiveness is good. I for one think Seminaries would be wise to deny admission to Michael Jackson :) (granted he's a Jehova's Witness)

<<The government, however, should be in the business of providing and supporting programs available to all Americans, regardless of religious preference.>> Right. The Government's use of funds should be based upon the best returns. The current head of the Faith Based Initiative is a man who has been an attorney for Mother Teresa. What disturbs me is that someone would sue Mother Teresa. Any lawyer who profits from a lawsuit against Mother Teresa is a real shitbag.

Imzadi> Not that it matters to you, but I'm 24, not 27. Now, if you think its wrong for a 24 year old to date a 17 year old, fine. Its your opinion. However, why do you amke an issue of it? Is it just to tell me I'm a hypocrite? Are you going to call the authorities?

Well, you can take your opinions and stuff them.

Spacebabie> <<Kyle can’t be Lancelot he’s a ----ing Jew>> Sure he can, his actual name was Lancelot DuLacowitz :)

That's all. Off to see Spiderman at the military theatre for 3.50 :p When Star Wars II plays, it will play for 3.50, not $8.00 :p To quote Al Pacino, hoo hah!!
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Hanau
Saturday, May 18, 2002 12:35:09 PM
IP: 62.104.212.98

so.. my dad sent me a care package (awwww aint dat sweet?) containing my nice shiney tax refund (which was bigger than his NA HA!.. and really a rather nice deal, seeing as how i didnt actually PAY any taxes..) and a bunch of new scientist magazines from england.
so im at work last night, leafing through the issue from 13 april and the first article is called "grave expectations".
it says:

"in november, the worlds first cloned baby could be born, if reports this week are to be believed. but cloning expertsare horrified and say that even if the baby is healthy, the mother could be at high risk of a rare invasive womb cancer.
once more, severino antinori, the maverick italian fertility expert, is at the centre of a controversy with his.."

heeeeeey.. waaaaaait just a second.. severino antinori? thats just.. bizarre! and hes experimenting with cloning, too. yeek. well, i suppose life imitates art.. *shudder*

metaldemon>> <<unconditional love, respect for nature, significance of hair, etc.>> and cool hats! dont forget the cool hats, dude!

leo>> according to your quiz.. i am a frenchman.. i suppose now i shall be forced to fart in your general direction..

oh.
and i found a kitten, last night in the cold. from the description i gave revel, he thinks its over a month old, at any rate. it was FREEZING cold last night and i was walking home from work.. and it was on the sidewalk just outside where the strip club is, up the road. shivering its little brains out. poor thing. so i stuffed the little thing in my coat and went home. tried feeding it slightly warmed milk through a syringe last night, that was fun :P gotta find a vets to see if its male of female.. and see about shots and all that good stuff.
gunjack is allergic but.. hey.. he lives in TEXAS so TOUGH GAZOOLIES! (sorry, love but.. youll just have to get some allergy medi)

.. speaking of gunjack.. *finds an unsuspecting gunjack and attacks with a pounce-snuggle-nap* mmmmmmmmm.. cooooomfy..... cant wait till next month.........

love,
lain
Saturday, May 18, 2002 11:17:37 AM
IP: 65.92.91.148

Star Wars > waiting a while to see it, that's our plan. Well, my plan. Tim's gonna sneak out Tuesday while I'm asleep and Becca's at work beause he is not quite foaming at the mouth while I'm braced for it to be a letdown. Going to see Spidey tomorrow instead just to shave a little box office off Lucas, 'cause lately he's been striking me as a prat ; )

Book news > still waiting for the edits on Knight of the Basilisk but the editor is continually assuring me that she _loves_ it, wonky Morvalan dialogue and all. I started a new horror novel last week, not the one that was next on the list but strike while the iron's hot and all that. It's tentatively called "Tell No Tales" and takes place on a haunted island during a reality television show. I think having the "Nature Hazard" bit in Coventry kicked something off, because Burt and Kelly Dagget are back from the dead ... for now, anyway. <eg>

Speaking of back from the dead, there's still time to vote for the Origins Awards, which just happen to feature my zombie story on the ballot! Thank you so much to those who've already voted!

Warp > actually, I've read very little Terry Pratchett. What I have, I've enjoyed, though. At the moment, my reading tastes are running toward thrillers and mysteries.

Christine - [<--- zombies, zombies, rah-rah-rah!]
Saturday, May 18, 2002 09:53:14 AM
IP: 67.226.12.148

*Warpmind wanders in, yawning slightly.*
Gosh darn it, I hate mornings...

Spacebabie: Leviathan? Well... Maybe not Leviathan, but it's definitely something not meant for men. };) As for GB being the second oldest virgin in the CR... I am torn between three questions: 1) Who's the older one? 2) How does Spacebabie know? 3) Do I even want to know the answer to either? ;p

Metaldemon: This may sound odd to you, but the last thing I'd cheerfully give up for religion is probably my carnivorous nature... Хх Aside from that, Rastafari seems like a fine path.

Lain: Huzzah! You're online! :D

Aingeal: Well, crud.

Wilek: Do you deliberately search eBay for the weird and unnatural?

Josh: I never said *what* kind of monster, did I? *Totally unethical smirk* 'Sides... I've been working in Lovecraftean geometrics of late, so you shouldn't worry too much... or maybe you should. ;)

Well, that's about it. Cheers, folks; I'm getting BREAKFAST!
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, May 18, 2002 03:59:25 AM
IP: 193.217.215.247

Studied today for just geotech, since its tomorrow. Hope it doesn't kill me. I could use a good grade in that class. Yes, that's right, my first final is saturday morning at 8AM, halfway across campus. Grrr.

Warpmind: <<Today's my third anniversary here>>: Congrats. Frankly, I'm amazed I stayed through one year. <<You're on a good course to wake up a monster>>: We really don't need that image. <<at least it's CONSISTENT>>: Am I the only one who rarely has problems with a modem? Or do I just not care because I save my posts and my internet applications don't quit just because I get disconnected?

Crzy: <<It looks like I am losing the art-chicks.com domain name. VeriSign bought out Registrars.com (who I bought the domain from originally). When they made the database transfers, they messed up the contact information>>: That sucks! VeriSign has really been a group of bastards lately, according to the tech media. I used register.com, personally. <>: Any particular reason?

Spacebabie: <<Kyle can’t be Lancelot he’s a ----ing Jew>>: LOL. <<This idea has some hot under the sheets action>>: That's not so impressive. Many of our ideas have hot under the sheets action. <<That’s what you get for going to a school that starts late>>: Yeah, I know. Supposedly, when I show my diploma to someone and get a job, it'll all be worthwhile. <<Don’t eat Mollusks in the months without R>>: Hasn't hurt me yet. <<he is the second oldest virgin in the room>>: Who's the oldest? <<Close to causing the Leviathon to arise eh?>>: Thanks, we needed that image even more.

Cherry: <<Only 7 more days of school! *bounces around excitedly* And then I'm FREE!>>: Same here. Lets just see if I don't kill myself. <<I'm cherry not Lila>>: My bad.

Lain: If you don't stop talking like Jar Jar Binks I will have you executed thrice.

Niamhgold: <<I'm excited for the paycheck, but also bummed at the lack of free time I'll have thereafter>>: I hear you. I just hope that GE doesn't have me staying too late. I"d like to have an actual life this summer, if I can remember how. <<At least I'll have some cash for when my birthday rolls around>>: What are you planning on buying yourself? <<I'm just not all that motivated to wait in the lines right now>>: My family is waiting till I get home. <<I'm staying out of the debates>>: I see you are not a masterdebater. <<there are no respectable theaters closer than an hour's drive>>: That's what you get for living in the boonies. <<keep those *$@!*&% tomatoes away from me>>: I hope my roommate doesn't hear you saying that. <<in on Sept. 3rd, out on May 2nd!>>: Grrr...but I don't think I'd sacrifice my winter break for that. <<And then GE will have you>>: No, they have to wait an additional 240 hours or so. <<Play TI-82 games or stick finger up nose until remaining 115 minutes pass>>: The first one, usually for 175 minutes. Or I just leave. <<And single and looking, to boot>>: How do you know that? <<You should go to a different school>>: Probably. But not anything on the east coast. Cuz it sucks. <>: Oh well. I did my best. <<You know, Apple better hire you *someday*>>: Why, because I know my stuff? Lots of people know a lot more than I do. <<You're not that bad. Of course, you didn't drive us to Berkeley>>: You haven't been with him on other car trips. <<Guilt trip him when his dad sends him on a sweet graduation trip next year>>: That's okay, I have somewhere I'd rather be for graduation next year. <<looks good on the outside, completely useless on the inside>>: Whatever. <<Laser grid>>: I was thinking flying attack porcupines. <<I'm going to kill the jet stream>>: Its low 60's here, and the middle of may! It should be 75-80! <<is envious>>: You've obviously never BEEN to arizona. <<With web-color flavor options?>>: Then my site would be an imac. <>: Yay for skinny chicks.

DPH: <<What games? I know of a version of Tetris for a TI-82 and I personally wrote a version of Black Jack for a TI-85>>: My roommie wrote it for TI82. He also wrote several very addictive smaller games. <<you aren't smart enough to screw my computer over by using an internet connect>>: I find that to be a serious insult. First of all, I don't have to be smart. All I need to do is go to bugtraq and find a hole in your version of winblows that hasn't been fixed yet. Second of all, just because I'm not a hacker doesn't mean I don't know some 8-) <<That's a case of lowest bid isn't a good idea>>: These guys hijacked the planes with box cutters. I don't think any security company would have seen that. I'm annoyed at the stupid passengers who were too afraid of getting paper cuts that they didn't do something. The guys on Flight 93 (?) were heroes. The rest...lazy.

Aingeal: <<i'm in the great cell-hell of KY>>: Is it affecting your spelling ability?

Wilek: You are a truly disturbed individual

Gside: <<Could use sleep>>: I feel your pain.

To deny our impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human.
-Mouse, "The Matrix"

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Saturday, May 18, 2002 02:17:52 AM
IP: 64.173.21.117

Been having some browser troubles and spend much time helping to set up science demos for tomorrow. Could use sleep, especially if it continues to rain (tomorrow's schedule will get moved up).

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, May 18, 2002 02:10:05 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

** Niamhgold enters briefly **

Wilek: Again, this bodes the question--where do you come up with this stuff? ;)
Niamhgold
Saturday, May 18, 2002 01:38:04 AM
IP: 12.110.135.109

Click my name to see why I love Ebay. :)
Wilek
Saturday, May 18, 2002 12:14:05 AM
IP: 216.65.106.130

Well.. i'm in the great cell-hell of KY for the time being... talk aob9ut pain in the butt trying to get reception... not happening from inside anywhere,,,, grr.... Warps.. you might just give up on trying to call my phone... even Krail on the mate cell phone cat get through half the time.. i'm going nuts and want to head home soon... just need to make a website that's accessible to those who are physically or mentally impared... THERE is a challenge....our government is a PAIN about regs... doh.. oh well... I'll catch fols as I can from my rents computer... since mine's in the office.

byebye
Aingeal
nowhere, KY
Friday, May 17, 2002 11:34:31 PM
IP: 208.7.173.44

DPH - Muenster is a very mild, light creamy cheese. Good for eating by itself, or with fruit or vegetable platters.

Lovely cheese and one of my favorites.

Mooncat
Mooncat
Friday, May 17, 2002 07:35:00 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Niamhgold - <"Answer questions. Be done in five minutes. Play TI-82 games or stick finger up nose until remaining 115 minutes pass."> What games? I know of a version of Tetris for a TI-82 and I personally wrote a version of Black Jack for a TI-85.

Lain - good to see you online.

Imzadi - <::sits silently, looks innocent::> Nah, you aren't smart enough to screw my computer over by using an internet connect.

Kaito - <Is nothing sacred to a desparate politician in this country?> As I heard on Politically Incorrect, it's not the actions before 9-11-2001 that should have us mad; it's what has happenned since then. My brother works for a secruity company. A while back they lost the bid to handle airport security because of underbidding. My brother calculated it out that the other security company was going to pay its workers just above minimum wage to make the contract work. That's a case of lowest bid isn't a good idea.

At my church, when the janitor retires, I plan on fighting a little bit to have my church hire a company to clean the church because it would be a much better job (more money means more time spent cleaning the church).

Can anyone tell me what muenster cheese tastes like?
DPH
AR, USA
Friday, May 17, 2002 06:17:01 PM
IP: 204.94.193.44

** Niamhgold enters **

About to start work again in a few days. I'm excited for the paycheck, but also bummed at the lack of free time I'll have thereafter. Oh, well ;) At least I'll have some cash for when my birthday rolls around.

I'm not going to see SW Ep. II for at least a week. I'm just not all that motivated to wait in the lines right now ;)

And, as usual, I'm staying out of the debates.

Replies:

cherry: Long time no see! Hmmm, know what you mean. That, and the fact that there are no respectable theaters closer than an hour's drive ;) <Only 7 more days of school> And then summer. Whoo! <It's not just Windows though> Amen!

Muppet: I'm Fozzie. Wokka Wokka, and keep those *$@!*&% tomatoes away from me ;)
Monty Python: I am Dennis.

Spacebabie: <I’m Fozzie?> At least we'll have a lot of pizza sauce. <Started to write that fic.> Bow chicka bow bow. <what you get for going to a school that starts late.> I think his school starts about the same time as my school, and we get out around May 8th. Ooh, and next year...in on Sept. 3rd, out on May 2nd! ;) <Well he is the second oldest virgin in the room> Who's the first? ;) <Of course all kids adore me.> Some have tried with me in the past. They have failed. I will not let the buggers defeat me! ;) <I’m feeling better> Yay! Quick healing to ya. <mint chocolate chip ice cream> Heck ya! <maybe you can be one of Mooncat’s warriors> Do I get a weapon, preferrably something sharp? ;)

Imzadi: <In roughly 180 hours, I'll be a free man> And then GE will have you. <::sits silently, looks innocent::> Uh-huh. Sure. <My high school exams were walks in the park> "Answer questions. Be done in five minutes. Play TI-82 games or stick finger up nose until remaining 115 minutes pass." And single and looking, to boot. <Am I the only one who still has all my finals left to go?!> Probably. You should go to a different school. <Yeah right. He wishes> Well, he kinda *is*. <Dynamics was the lowest grade I got to date as well. B-.> I don't think that made her feel too much better ;) <You can find out a bit more at www.apple.com/macosx/newversion.> You know, Apple better hire you *someday*. ;) <Apple came out with Xserve today, its long-awaited entry into the enterprise server market. It's only 1U, yet it has 4 drive bays, three PCI slots, 2 G4's> Sounds pretty sweet, and I don't say that often. <As in, worse than me.> You're not that bad. Of course, you didn't drive us to Berkeley. <Yes well none of my grandparents eat cat food> Yet. I don't think it's comparable. <Maybe then people will stop breeding> Sadly, the odds aren't good on that. <His dad is sending him and two friends to vegas next weekend, and I don't get to go because I'm not 21 :-*(> Guilt trip him when his dad sends him on a sweet graduation trip next year ;) <No comment> Probably best. <Sounds like a good excuse to get out of town.> Yeah, definitely to someplace warm and cozy. <WTF does that mean?> Uh, that I was tired when I typed that ;) I think my moral was, "looks good on the outside, completely useless on the inside." I'd be much more content with a Dell or Satellite. <As if my parents would let me sleep that much> Laser grid.

Jan: <It's so bloody cold here. *growls* I'm sick of cold weather and rain.> No kidding! Today 70, this weekend, three days of cold and snow. I'm going to kill the jet stream. ;) <Here is the addy to the Kid Care webpage> Great organization, from what I can see :) <or even worse… we have athletes making that kind of money too> Depressing, yes. Of course, they're more likely to get injured and have *no* income after an injury (unless they make commercials). I'd actually be happier scraping it up as an artist (although I've recently learned that even art takes its toll ;)).

Spike: <Well, it's off to the exciting world of matting pictures for me> Ooh, fun fun! Who's your matboard retailer?

Wilek: <You rock. ^_^ What exactly do these fans do? >:)> Hey! You don't even know what they do and you get them? Argh, fine. I'll just have to settle for just some *Tasuki* action ;)

Ravyn: <Howdy, all!!! ;) I'm writing you from beautiful southern Arizona> ::is envious:: Congratulations! <I'll be trying to do the same> Makes me think of making on of those "X-amount until we reach our goal" thermometers. ;)

Gside: <That's because they got old before the baby boomers> Hehe. <Downloadable Jello> With web-color flavor options? <But there wouldn't be much.> I suppose it depends upon the Floridian. <You can do the same at the Stash> If it wasn't so far out of my way on my drive to baltimore, I'd stop in. What part of the state is it nearest? <You should be able to handle it> I don't have that New England layer of lubber. <So I can't wear my tie dyed t-shirt any more?> Do you call yourself Jerry? <Actually, it's officially called a Cume here.> Well, thanks for that. <but since I've got family up north, we're supplied> Always good to have maple sugar on hand. <It's probably because you're not on Linux, as opposed to upgrading to XP.> I chose neither for as long as I can hold out ;)

Adios
Niamhgold
Friday, May 17, 2002 02:57:00 PM
IP: 12.110.135.178

YAY!

me online!

me must go workies though.

therefore, I SHALL RETURN!!!!

*meniacal laughter fading out into the distance*
lain
new housey!
Friday, May 17, 2002 02:49:51 PM
IP: 65.92.91.177

Waprd> Yeah, and I don't mind. There's things that I just don't accept, which other Rastas don't accept also: H.I.M Haile Selassie I being the living god, for instance. After he didn't ressurect, a lot of Rastas didn't believe in him as the second coming, but rather saw him more as a prophet for all the good work he did.

I believe in their core values: unconditional love, respect for nature, significance of hair, etc. I don't believe Halie Selassie 1 was God becuase his actions and speeches didn't speak it, plus he didn't ressurect. 8P And I don't believe Ethiopia is a Holy Land (but I can belive life started in Africa), and I don't beleive the African race is chosen (but I can belive that Jesus was black), simply becuase I believe all races were chosen after Christ's sacrifice. Anyways...... Yes, my hair is dreaded :). That took eleven hours to do, and we did it over three days. Whew!

metaldemon
Friday, May 17, 2002 01:40:46 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Hi everybody!Only 7 more days of school! *bounces around excitedly* And then I'm FREE!!!!!

Josh< Finals are a walk in the park but I still have them all to do! And by the way, I'm cherry not Lila. ^_^ They all hate me.

Lexy< I'll email you! That much I can do! And actually, I'll call you tonight from my Mom's place.

Kai< Thank you!! I miss my Lexy. *pout* *ponders* You are going to be at the Gathering, aren't you? I seem to remember something about having to choose between something..hmm..

I want to see Star Wars!! *sigh* I have no time in my schedule lately! Maybe Monday..

Ack! Gotta run!
cherry
Friday, May 17, 2002 01:11:49 PM
IP: 198.234.250.162

Monty Python>>>I’m Lancelot.
Muppet>>>I’m Fozzie?

Speaking of Camelot has anyone ever thought of doing a fic where the cast of slayers or Southpark acts out the parts of Camelot?
Cartman “Kyle can’t be Lancelot he’s a ----ing Jew,”
Kyle ”Shut up fat @$$!”

Not much has happened I’m feeling better. Started to write that fic.

Firestorm<<<that there are *NON* Adult fics?>>>Yes We all know Mooncat~san will have you believe all fics are adult fics.<<<Gargoyles fics should always have sex and/or violence>>>This idea has some hot under the sheets action.

Wilek<<<What exactly do these fans do?>>>Shoot Fire.

Jan<<<You didn't miss much with the season finale of Crossing Jordan>>>Thanks for telling me what happened.

Josh<<<Ugh. I'll be happy when that final is over.>>>Your preaching to the choir here.<<<Am I the only one who still has all my finals left to go?!>>>That’s what you get for going to a school that starts late.<<<Thanks for the lovely image.>>>Don’t eat Mollusks in the months without R. I leanred the hard way.<<<Spacebabie porn.>>>No, gargoyle porn<<<Yeah right. He wishes.>>>Well he is the second oldest virgin in the room.<<<Trying to pull that off for next semester.>>>Good luck<<>>You should see the kids that I occasionally watch. They are sweethearts. Of course all kids adore me.

Gside>>>Already healed.

Warpmind>>>Close to causing the Leviathon to arise eh?
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Friday, May 17, 2002 01:10:26 PM
IP: 67.25.48.161

In protest of Jar-jar Binks... I went to see Spider-man with Crispin and Izobel last night. :) Crispy is an old school Spidey fan like me... so it was a lot of fun. Yes, I will see Ep II. I just want Lucas to wait for my money. ;)

It looks like I am losing the art-chicks.com domain name. VeriSign bought out Registrars.com (who I bought the domain from originally). When they made the database transfers, they messed up the contact information (they have done this to at least two other people I know.) If I wanted to stay with VeriSign, I could keep the domain, but I would rather stab myself with a hot poker than give these morons my cash. So it looks like Art-Chicks.com will go bye bye. I just bought artchicks.org instead and we will be making the change over soon. OY! Nothing is simple anymore.

If anyone hasn't signed the Slayers Premium dub petition, please do so here: http://www.petitiononline.com/saveslay/petition.html

I gotta keep Crispy employed! ;)

Christine: Rock the ballot babe!!
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Friday, May 17, 2002 12:34:15 PM
IP: 216.249.100.204

*Warpmind strides in, impeccably clad in a dark blue suit, and wearing a silyl hat with the number "3" on it.*
Hi, gang. Today's my third anniversary here. Just thought some of you might like to know. No big celebration required; I just happened to realize the date. ;)

Spacebabie: *Evil smirk* Caaaaareful, pretty one. You're on a good course to wake up a monster. };)

Wilek: Man, and I thought MY connection was shoddy... :p I've just got 64K ISDN (although I've figured out how to run it bonded recently, I'm still stuck on 64K to keep the phone accessible...), but at least it's CONSISTENT! :p

Christine: The Dawn of the Living-Impaired... *Chuckle* Are you sure you haven't read Terry Pratchett's "Reaper Man" recently? ;)

Metaldemon: You're a Rasta? Dude... doesn't the Church of the Rastafari prohibit eating meat? Хх

Well, surprisingly enough, my May 17th (5-17 for all you fnordic peeps here) post is already over. Ciao, gang.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Friday, May 17, 2002 11:09:29 AM
IP: 193.217.133.238

Spent today studying again. Lots of that going on for the next week or so. In roughly 180 hours, I'll be a free man. Woohoo!

I'm King Arthur and Fozzie.

DPH: <>: ::sits silently, looks innocent::

Lila: <<It's not just Windows though! They all_hate me!>>: Sure they do. <>: Those don't count as finals. My high school exams were walks in the park.

Kai: <<Who elects these losers?>>: Democrats. <<Is nothing sacred to a desparate politician in this country?>>: Nope.

Impfac: <<This movie was just AWESOME>>: What are you smoking...and where can I get some? <<the scene we've all know had to happen-but couldn't quite image-at last played out>>: The kinky sex between Anakin and Amidala? <<I’m dying to know how it comes out.>>: Anakin becomes Darth Vader. All the jedi die, except Yoda and Kenobi. Amidala gives birth to Luke and Leia, who are hidden on Tatooine and Alderaan, respectively. <<Anyone who says it sucked is just trying to see the bad in it>>: The action rocked...the rest sucked.

Gunjack: <<The droids were awesome, the clones were awesome, the Jedi battle was unbelievable>>: Amen.

Jan: <<it's not considered bias or prejudice if the religious organization or people are the ones who are discriminated against>>: Oh! Thank you for clarifying that for me ;-) <<if you do.. well, then you're a fruit-loop>>: Woohoo! Proof that I'm NOT what I eat 8-) <<Seems that the media has forgotten about that>>: Look, none of this stuff matters, because the fact remains that republicans are evil ;-) <<regulations had to do with the amount of meat and cheese that could be placed on the sandwiches>>: And you said I was anal retentive 8-)

Gside: <<Downloadable Jello>>: Guess again. <<But there wouldn't be much>>: Back to spacebabie porn. <<Whereas Hemingway thinks I'm going at a glacial speed>>: Yeah, but he's a hack anyway. <<Something we could use more of>>: Depends on who else is in it. <<Eh, that's pretty tame. For Wilek>>: Well it still sounds painful to me.

Aaron: <<George Lucas still can't write women>>: Quiet, you scruffy-looking nerf-herder. <<Natalie Portman still can't act>>: I hear her oral skills are second to none, though. <<putting her in skimpier and skimpier outfits doesn't make up for it>>: Especially THOSE outfits. If they had her running around in a bikini, I might have been satisfied. <<she has only marginally bigger tits than I do>>: And that's saying a lot, since you've got Demona's boobs permanently emblazoned on your chest. <<Best Star Wars since Empire>>: I think I'd have to agree, sadly. No, The Thrawn trilogy was better.

You’re Satan, aren’t you?
-Gene Siskel, “The Critic”

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Friday, May 17, 2002 02:41:19 AM
IP: 64.173.21.117

Well, I'm late weighing in, although I saw the opening show. I just felt like crashing because it was four in the morning by the time I got home. So sue me.

No spoilers, but...

George Lucas still can't write women.

Natalie Portman still can't act, and putting her in skimpier and skimpier outfits doesn't make up for it, because she has only marginally bigger tits than I do.

Lucas still has a distressing tendency to go for spectacle over story.

Other then that... Pretty damn good. Best Star Wars since Empire.

Real post.... before A-kon?

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Friday, May 17, 2002 12:03:31 AM
IP: 204.31.123.206

Imzadi> <<none of my grandparents eat cat food>>: That's because they got old before the baby boomers.
<>: Not until I get a job.
<<something I could actually implement>>: Downloadable Jello.
<<Especially for a Berkeley student>>: Or any engineering student.

Spacebabie> <>: Heal well.
<<Dud you?d get worn out, not too mention need an ice pack for your groin>>: Well, I could use it.
<<Not in Florida. I prefer clothing that breaths>>: But there wouldn't be much.

Fire Storm> <<Yes! Yes! Your name! Your name!>>: Channeling Anthrax much?
<>: Whereas Hemingway thinks I'm going at a glacial speed.

Imzadi> <<Spacebabie porn>>: Something we could use more of.
<<OUCH>>: Eh, that's pretty tame. For Wilek.

The mp3 is for Wilek this time (hopefully). Mephistopholes by the Trans Siberian Orchestra.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, May 17, 2002 12:00:39 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Cherry- Email me at
izzolexington3@yahoo.com
Or call me and leave a message with an actual time you _will_ be home so we can talk. EM me for the phone if you have lost it.

Lexy
Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:44:55 PM
IP: 66.31.222.137

Josh> <<that the government has a blanket policy on donating to *all* charities, and donates to faith-based and non-faith-based charities alike?>> no no no.. it doesn't work like that... it's not considered bias or prejudice if the religious organization or people are the ones who are discriminated against. See, it's ok if everyone else can scream discrimination but if someone who is Christian based does that, then that doesn't count because they believe differently than those who don't believe in God. It's ok if you don't believe in God but if you do.. well, then you're a fruit-loop or trying to force your opinions or beliefs down their throats and therefore cannot have the same consideration. Even though the non-believers can “preach” their opinions to you.

Kaito> Thank you! Eesh, I was listening to the radio today about the Democraps latest attacks. How convenient for those who are also on the Senate Intelligence committee have accused Pres Bush for not doing anything about the “pre-warnings” when THEY received the SAME information and did nothing. FAA also received numerous warnings and yet they did nothing to increase the security. I don’t blame any of these people because as you said, it was unthinkable that we would be attacked. But now they are all looking at this with hindsight and trying to point fingers. Bullhockey. I haven’t heard anyone mention that Bin Laden was offered to Clinton and he refused to have him incarcerated. Seems that the media has forgotten about that….
The flak over the pictures of Pres Bush on Air Force One talking to VP Chaney and selling them.. they tried to cause a stink over that (even though there was nothing illegal about that) they haven’t mentioned about when Senator Tom Daschle hosted an illegal campaign fundraising event at Mt. Rushmore on September 13, 1997. The event was the subject of an ethics complaint filed with the Senate Ethics Committee by Landmark Legal Foundation. The Senate Ethics Committee has yet to act on Landmark's complaint. The Senator is purportedly one of the leading proponents of campaign finance reform legislation.
Then there’s the issue of pollution… with Daschle saying the Republicans are "forcing taxpayers to pay the cleanup bill" for polluters. If the media did its job, it would remind us about the South Dakota company called Home Stake Mining.
Home Stake Mining is a major polluter, but since they're also a big Daschle supporter, they're not going to have to pay for their mess - you and I are. Nobody else in the media made a big deal of it because it doesn't flatter Daschle, but it is exactly what he accuses the Republicans of doing. One of his supporters polluted the state of South Dakota, and he passes a law forcing the taxpayers to pay for the cleanup.
They are all guilty of something – but geesh, I get tired of them throwing mud when they are covered in it themselves and then the media not bothering to point out anything against the democraps that are involved in such mudslinging.

DPH> I don't recall all of the headaches that it was going to cause at this time. I do remember when the government regulations decided that she had to have a ventilator hood over the stove for when she fried food.... she never fries food... she doesn't eat fried food nor will she ever serve fried food to anyone. She fought tooth and toenail over that one. The reason she didn't want to put a ventilator hood in was because the model that they would approve cost over $500 - money that could be spent on food for the children instead. Finally, a private donor had the hood installed and it's never been used to this day. I also think that some of the regulations had to do with the amount of meat and cheese that could be placed on the sandwiches... Carol didn't need the government telling her how to do something that she's been successfully doing for years.

My kids attending the 12:01 am showing of Star Wars – but I will wait until this weekend ;) I did manage to finally see Spiderman =) Great movie! I’m a devoted Spiderman fan and it was a pleasure seeing the movie.

Jan
Thursday, May 16, 2002 06:57:13 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

*****another quiz*****

What Muppet Are You?

Leo - [<-----Wokka Wokka!]
Thursday, May 16, 2002 06:56:06 PM
IP: 172.147.169.52

*****stupid quiz*****

Which "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" Character Are You?

Leo - [<-- take quiz]
Thursday, May 16, 2002 06:50:22 PM
IP: 172.147.169.52

Impfac - Just got back from The Movie myself.

The dialogue throughout was lacking, and Anikin couldn't act his way out of a paper bag... But yoou know what? I was expecting another Phantom Menace-class disapointment, and this one KICKED MY TAIL. The droids were awesome, the clones were awesome, the Jedi battle was unbelievable.
and as for that moment you mentioned... Rabbit on SPEED, baby!! 8D

Real post later, when I actually get a net connection.

PEACE!
Gunjack "Run Away!" Valentine
Thursday, May 16, 2002 04:30:06 PM
IP: 12.65.210.85

I just was Star Wars Episode Two.

Wow. I mean WOW! Un#$$%#ing BELIEVABLE. This movie was just AWESOME! I really enjoyed the plot. The SFX were incredible-and MAMMOTH. The movie had scale, and sets up the next part beautifully. And the comic relief is much more comic-Jar Jar has all of five minutes.

Plus, the scene we've all know had to happen-but couldn't quite image-at last played out. It seemed impossible, but we’ve all known it had to be there. I won’t even say what it is, but deep down inside, you know. I'm still not sure if I loved it or hated that scene, but I know I want to see it again.

Man. Fetal Star Destroyers, dozens of Jedi battling thousands of robots-this movie had it all. The plot is complex (compared to episode one, at least), and I’m dying to know how it comes out. Anyone who says it sucked is just trying to see the bad in it.

I don’t get where the time came from, though...

I think this maybe my favorite star wars of all time. Oh yes, George Lucas finally pulled it off-Star Wars is back. Bigger. Better. Sweeter. Man, this was a kick ass movie.

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Thursday, May 16, 2002 03:34:52 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Cherry - Sure, Lexy checks in now and again. I'll make sure she reads the room when she and I get home from work. :)

Idiocy in the News -

Well, it just goes to show that politicians in election years get really desparate.

First the Democrats try to demonize Bush for using reference to his job during September 11 as a rallying point of fund-raising and campaigning. This little initiative made about a 0.2 on the news scale even though the press tried to squeeze some blood out of it. It seems common sense prevailed, however, once the shock of having a politician actually campaigning on the "Look, I did my job" platform wore off.

Sometimes politicians and news-reporters make me laugh. :)

And now that last week's little ploy didn't work, things get ugly. Democratic congressmen are bending the ear of any two-bit hack reporter sleazing around Washington about how the FBI informed Bush about Bin Laden before September 11th.

Again, duh. I'd really hope that they'd keep the leader of the free world informed as to what terrorist organizations are up to. But to imply on based on a routine CIA briefing that mentioned Yet Another terrorist organization vowing to kill US citizens and plotting to hijack airplanes that the President or the FBI didn't do enough to prevent 9/11 ... that is about as low into the mud that a politician or a reporter can go.

No one believed people were going to hijack airplanes and ram them into civilian population centers and national land-marks as projectile weapons. Not the CIA, not the FBI, not the Democrats, not the Republicans, not you, and certainly not me. No one wanted to believe it could happen. Bob Graham, John Edwards, and Dick Gephardt make me sick at the lengths they will go to engage in political grand-standing and mud-slinging. Who elects these losers?

Stick to picking on President Junior for having a face like a monkey, squeeking into the Oval Office with a contested election, and nearly choking to death on a pretzel, you slick-haired, rich little white-bread twerps. But don't try to play the dirt-digging blame-game with 9/11.

Investigate whatever you want. Do it discretely and quitely and then talk about it after you have some _real_ findings. Some things are to important to simply reduce to mud-slinging "Politics of Destruction," spin-doctoring for attack-ads, and inuendo in the press.

Is nothing sacred to a desparate politician in this country?

Ah well, back to work.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Thursday, May 16, 2002 01:50:25 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Hello Everybody!

It feels good to know that I'm finally registered to go to the G2K2! And that the money is taken care of! Now I just have to make sure that Lexy still has room for me to sleep in her room. ;)

Kai< Do you know if Lexy checks this room randomly? *grins* And do you know if you guys have blankets and sheets and all that good stuff? I found the perfect wedding present for you two the other day..and by the way, you are NOT a hippie. *L* Not even in the slightest sense of the word. *g* You're as straight and normal as they come. ^_^ No offense. ;)

Josh< It's not just Windows though! They all_hate me! Normally my comp is fairly nice to me, but I think it feels rather neglected right now. And I still have all my finals to do! You aren't alone! Of course, I'm only in high school. *scowl*

Lila< <<sardonic bastard>> Yeah, I've been called much worse recently! Don't feel bad. *L* As long as you deserved it anyways..

As for all the missions and religious talk, I don't really have a position on it, but I do agree that missionaries should adapt to the area's culture before trying to do anything. Most people don't respect newcomers. I'm hoping to be in Israel on a 5 month mission trip starting September 30, and I just hope that I can take my own advice once I *hopefully* get there.

And now, I've got to scram.
cherry
OH
Thursday, May 16, 2002 01:09:46 PM
IP: 198.234.250.162

I turned in my state income taxes today and I get a rebate.

Jan - <She has chosen not to accept government funding b/c of the limitations and regulations that it will place on her.> Can you list the specific problems that were present?

Metaldemon - I don't like sending out an invitation for spam. So I am going to list my old yahoo email address in parts. When you email the old one, I'll respond with the new one. Here's the first half: dph_of_rules and here's the second half @yahoo.com

** everything above here was typed on Wednesday **

Yesterday, while I was leaving my computer alone with a DOS program running, my OS become one step short of crashing - "explorer" stopped running - so I had to restart the computer. I'm mad. I never had as many problems with my OS until I bought this new PC.

4-9=6

Patrick - <Have you investigated the possibility that the government has a blanket policy on donating to *all* charities, and donates to faith-based and non-faith-based charities alike?> I suspect more faith-based ones would except for the strings applied to receiving federal money. I know that Southern Baptists in Arkansas have a children's home for boys (yes, there is one for girls). They started to apply for a federal grant once until they read the strings that were attached.
DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, May 16, 2002 01:09:23 PM
IP: 204.94.193.29

Lots of fun studying geotechnical engineering today. Ugh. I'll be happy when that final is over.

Am I the only one who still has all my finals left to go?!

Patrick: <<The government, however, should be in the business of providing and supporting programs available to all Americans, regardless of religious preference.>>: Have you investigated the possibility that the government has a blanket policy on donating to *all* charities, and donates to faith-based and non-faith-based charities alike? I don't know if this is the case or not, I just thought it was something you hadn't considered in your statement.

Wilek: <<The judge can't legally execute the attorney. Order it, yes, but not pull the switch>>: That's fine, I'll do it.

Spacebabie: <>: Thanks for the lovely image. <<Now I got an idea for an Adult CR fic>>: Spacebabie porn. <<Green Baron is the CR Whore>>: Yeah right. He wishes. <>: What like a masquer? (10 points for getting the reference). <<There shouldn’t be any classes before 11:00 am>>: Trying to pull that off for next semester. We shall see. <<You could end up with this>>: I do that every time I see ANY child 8-)

Cherry: <>: Windows.

Ravyn: <<it was the worst final of my life. It was awful. I ended up with a C in the class, which is majorly bumming me right now ... I've never had a C before>>: I feel your pain. Dynamics was the lowest grade I got to date as well. B-. <<the cheapest company has all sorts of strange rules, and I'm not sure if I wanna worry about those>>: Those are the worst. And they place stupid restrictions on you. Just go with the easiest, even if its $40/month.

Kaioto: <<I'm such a hippy sometimes it makes my teeth feel like their rotting out of my head.>>: Maybe you should move out here. <<I've heard little bits about the Jaguar release. Is it the new supported software packages their pushing?>>: They're pushing a lot of stuff about it. Its bigger/better/faster than the current X releases. It includes a whole bunch of new UNIX features, GCC 3, free development tools, new GUI toys, and new ways to interface with your computer. You can find out a bit more at www.apple.com/macosx/newversion. There aren't many details yet because the developers only have a preview release (and its buggy as hell - not even Alpha status), but you can get some ideas of what's new.

Fire Storm: <<Micro-fic>>: Ugh that should be an interesting read.

Wilek: <>: I'm sure you do. But I don't have your hard drive. <<Wilek sodomizes Mr. Disconnect with a chainsaw>>: OUCH.

Jan: <>: You mean the 14 children per couple wasn't a clue?

Metaldemon: <<The Church of the Rastafari>>: You realize it is now very difficult for us to take you seriously ever again.

Lila: <>: Welcome to the club. <<got erased by a Windows ME glitch... I hate my OS>>: Go mac.

Out.

Activate SLAVE GIRLS. Fondle SLAVE GIRLS. Activate SLAVE GIRLS.
-SimShatner (with the help of Mike Margolis and Maneesh Goel)

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Thursday, May 16, 2002 04:29:21 AM
IP: 64.173.21.117

I was called a "sardonic bastard" tonite. Hmmmm. Much as I'd love to join in the really fun conversations going on... I've got to return to my studying. Dratted finals are kicking my butt, but they're done after my last one at 8am tomorrow... I don't know what sadistic person plans these ungodly timeslots, but I suffer greatly by them. Now it's back to the mire that is my huge bio report that got erased by a Windows ME glitch... I hate my OS. It wouldn't be so BAD if I UNDERSTOOD what I was writing about in the first place... oh well. Enjoy your weeks, people, for those of us who CANT!
Lila - [liejones]
la, ca, usa
Thursday, May 16, 2002 02:28:36 AM
IP: 134.173.120.199

Back home, hooked into the network, but not for too long (goes across a hallway).

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fari Haven, NJ
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:39:54 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Last post tonigh!! :)

Jan> truth be told, all I hear is the bad stuff; I hardly get to hear good stuff, cuz hardly anyone wants to spread good news. You know what I mean?

<>

Oh but I have, my dear ^_^. The Church of the Rastafari. Yeah yeah, they get get a bad rap, but the experiance I have had with it has only brought me good vibes; better than any I have felt before (no, it's not the weed I don't smoke ;]). And yes, non-black people can belong.
metaldemon
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:58:30 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Hey, Folks!

The voting for the Origins Award, the top honor in the gaming industry, is now open. A short story of mine is on the ballot for Best Game-Related Short Work. The story is "Dawn of the Living-Impaired," which appeared in Eden Studios' The Book of All Flesh. As surprising and wonderful as it was to be nominated, it'd be even better to win, so please-please-please find it in your hearts to vote for me!

The story can be read online as a PDF here:
http://www.edenstudios.net/Morgan.pdf

The ballot is here:
http://www.aagad.org/originsawards/

Your support would be muchly appreciated. Thank you!

Spike > glad you liked the story, thanks! Good luck at A-Kon.

Scouts > have been trying to get in contact with our local Girl Scout troop for Becca. No luck so far. I've heard twice from Girl Scout Command Center, wanting to know if the local chapter's been in touch yet. But eventually, hopefully, it'll work out and Becca can be everyone's connection for the cookies ; ) My friend Kim is already planning to order 12 boxes of Thin Mints each year so she can freeze them and ration them out monthly. My memories of my own time in uniform aren't that bad -- except for the year we had to march in the parade dressed as Xmas presents, and my costume broke. Far better than Indian Maidens, anyway. Now there's an organization that probably died from PC complications a while back ...

Impfac > yes, she was a beautiful car. When they made the movie, the crew was in an uproar because the '58 Fury was not an easy car to find. They wound up salvaging and restoring about two dozen cars, only to wreck, crush, and burn most of them. But isn't that scene where she comes roaring out of the darkness with flames streaming from her hood a sight to behold? Yum!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:31:33 PM
IP: 67.226.12.83

Metaldemon> *blinks* ummmm ohhhkay. Seriously, you seem to have had some really bad experiences with some churches. I encourage you to continue searching until you find a church that isn't like anything that you've experienced so far.

Not all faith based organizations are like what you've explained and thankfully I've never experienced any like that. I have volunteered at various faith based organizations and haven't seen what you have described. (not saying that it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it)
The main faith based that I've been associated with is called Kid Care. It's based in Houston and it's only purpose is to feed the children who would otherwise go hungry. It's like a Meals-On-Wheels for children.
They are faith based and yet in all of the years that I've worked closely with them plus the owners are close family friends - I didn't even know what affliation they were until last year - when I asked.
Carol was one of the invited to President Bush's gala for the faith based organizations :) She has chosen not to accept government funding b/c of the limitations and regulations that it will place on her.

Patrick> thanks your answer - it's something that I can address without feeling on the defensive. Catholics are already established as being against birth control and I wasn't aware of the Mormon's stance. My guess is that they don't want to discourage birth control because that would severely curtail their future enrollment/membership and in the long run - $$$. At least with the Catholics, they only promote birth control within their own members and don't preach it to apply to everyone else too.
I don't know how the Mormon's preach their belief on this issue. I try not to worry too much on what they think or consider ;) They are founder-based and not God-based, IMO.

Spacebabie> You didn't miss much with the season finale of Crossing Jordan. I was very disappointed in it. =\
**Spoiler for CJ: The crazy guy convinced Jordan that he was set up for the murder of his wife and kids and it turned out that her father did indeed plant the knife - but only because they knew he was guilty and there was no other way to get him convicted. Jordan threatened to take the info to the press if they didn't realize the crazy guy. They gave in and released him & as he left the hospital, he told her of a cabin to go to. She went and Woody followed her.. they found the bodies of the wife and kids. The crazy used her. But, now she still thinks that he knows what happened to her mom and she has left in search of him. Also, Lily went back home even though Garrett went to the bus & asked her to stay. Bug is very unhappy that she left but he still wouldn't tell her how he feels about her. Jordan's shrink is concerned that her dreams are coming back... she was able to advance some in one of her dreams where she finds her mom in the bathroom with a broken mirror, blood on her hands and she is cutting her hair with a broken piece of mirror. (she has discovered that her mom was looney-tunes) I think this episode was a real let-down. =(

Kaito> I totally agree with the stupidity and lack of humor of tying up an emergency dispatch with such nonsense. These kids weren't even original with their calls/conversation. *rolls eyes* I typed out a press release today so hopefully other youngin's will see that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. The public is also going to find out that ALL calls can be traced - land and cellular.
Scouts: Of course you know that I'm going to highly recommend that you become an adult leader now ;) There comes a time when you should give back to the program. Besides, I think you'll enjoy being on the "other side" of scouting as a leader. My son, Michael visited the local troop here this week and I think he enjoyed getting back into the scouting atmosphere :)

It's so bloody cold here. *growls* I'm sick of cold weather and rain.

Here is the addy to the Kid Care webpage:
http://www.kid-care.org/
or click on my name. Please check it out and see what they do. I've been volunteering and giving contributions since they first opened. Carol Porter is certainly an Angel here on Earth.
Jan - [<<---- Kid Care]
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:10:30 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

kaioto> you're right; i am making broad assumptions. But we at least share the same beliefs on ministry :)
metaldemon
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 09:53:16 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Gside> <<No, but it seems a bit reminiscent of the USSR anthem.>> I know. I love Russian music. ^_^

Josh> <<Next suggestion. Like, something I could actually implement.>> If finding them is the problem, I have a lot of the more notorious anims stored locally on my hard drive.

Warps> <<who is Squee, again>> A kid from the excellent comics Johnny The Homicidal Maniac and Squee's Wonderful Big Giant Book Of Unspeakable Horrors. (Buy the trade paperbacks. Now.) He looks basically like the kid from the Crabs anim, and his life also consists of surviving a variety of frelled up events that will probably send him to a court-appointed therapist someday. <<why haven't you been around of late?>> Mr. Disconnect has...taken a liking to me. >:( DC, I suggest you prepare yourself for some intense fun: [Wilek throws a switch on the wall that leads to a drill press poised at DC's throat.]

Spacebabie> <<<<Tasuki fan action! >>>Wilek has already been granted that>> You rock. ^_^ What exactly do these fans do? >:)

FS> <<Gargoyles fics should always have sex and/or violence.>> Like this? [Wilek sodomizes Mr. Disconnect with a chainsaw.]

Wilek
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 03:11:30 PM
IP: 216.65.106.130

Ugh. Too tired to pack... but I need to.

Don't you just hate that?

Spacebabie: <Now I got an idea for an Adult CR fic>
::GASP!:: You are telling me that there are *NON* Adult fics?
If it don't have a PG-13 or higher rating, I ain't readin it... or writing it.
Gargoyles fics should always have sex and/or violence.
I guess plot is good too! ;)

***BAD MICRO-FIC TO PROVE ABOVE***

Brooklyn stumbles into the warehouse that had, until a few moments ago, held the worlds biggest terrorist ring. Cautiously, Brooklyn sweeps the room with his now quiet but still smoking mini-gun, it's barrels hot from giving all the terrorists a severe case of lead poisoning.
As he was creeping slowly through the expansive warehouse, he heard the muffled whimpers of women. Tracking the sound to a large trap door in the floor, Brooklyn set down his mini-gun and pulled the chain attatched to the door with all his might. Almost immediately, naked and vuluptious women of all three species came up from the room that had been their prision.
"OH, thank you, brave gargoyle! Please, tell us your name!" One of the women, a light pink gargoyle female, spoke.
"Yes! Yes! Your name! Your name!" The rest of the women chanted.
"Brooklyn." The brick red gargoyle spat out, exausted from his battle.
"Well, sir Brooklyn, we are all virgins between the aparent ages of 18 and 24 who have been down there for a VERY long time. They wanted nothing but virgins. Please, good sir, make it so we will never have to worry about them recapturing us!"
Brooklyn grinned as he stared at the naked women.
"Well, anything to help out a lady!"

***END BAD MICRO-FIC***

Bad, I know, but hey, what can ya do? ;)

(NOTE: I have been writing alot lately, do I have quite a bit of material on my laptop... maybe, just MAYBE, I will one day find the time to edit amd re-edit it.)

L8R!
Fire Storm
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 02:50:45 PM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Metaldemon: I share your distaste for certain tactics in mission work. Of course, you always have to be careful to avoid painting any religious grouping with a broad brush, especially Christians with the extent of diversity they have in the United States.

I've always been in favor of patience. Maybe that's what makes me so weird even no matter what circles I run in. My philosophy about religion and mission work has been to put works of mercy as the first priority. I think that if you treat people with respect and honesty, help them with their problems, include them in your society, and show them unconditional love, then God will do the rest in God's own time, if God wills it. It isn't an ordinary human's place to try and bend a mind or soul to their own will.

Setting a bad example by alienating, manipulating, or harassing people simply puts up more barriers between people and God, yourself and others, and yourself and God. No good can come of taking an exclusively Yang approach to matters, in my opinion, especially matters of spirituality and faith. Love, peace, and patience.

GACK! I'm such a hippy sometimes it makes my teeth feel like their rotting out of my head. :P

Josh: I've heard little bits about the Jaguar release. Is it the new supported software packages their pushing?

Must ... code ... Darwin ...

Jan: You folks should probably parade the little punk out once in a while just to get the message across to others. Maybe when the little-kids tour the station. :) "Don't be like this moron when you grow up, kids."

Seriously though, prank-calling the emergency line for 4 hours ... that's just the most selfish, idiotic, and destructive thing you can do with a telephone. That's not funny. That's a waste of tax-payer dollars and taking up resources that are supposed to be used saving lives. That little perp needs to be set straight in a bad way.

Scouts: My old Scoutmaster keeps trying to get me to go back to the troop and help lead the thing. I guess if I'm still living in my home town this fall I can't say no. The parish needs Web site support soon too. It is funny how trying to settle down and get married seems to automatically let the community get its hooks into you. Still, probably a site more productive then spending 20 hours at work and 40 hours at school every week like I had been doing the last 4 years.

Ah well, back to work.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 02:30:18 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Ooo!! It works now! If you want to online register, feel free..It works! *bounces*
cherry
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:48:36 PM
IP: 198.234.250.162

Howdy, all!!! ;) I'm writing you from beautiful southern Arizona ... it's lovely being home again, even if my allergies are going absolutely insane from all this wind and dust ... ;)

So I finished my last final exactly one week ago, and then moved out of my dorm forever ... my last final was Dynamics, though, and it was the worst final of my life. It was awful. I ended up with a C in the class, which is majorly bumming me right now ... I've never had a C before. ;) I'm still waiting for my grades in my other classes, and I'm getting a bit nervous now ... :(

I have an apartment, though! I'll be moving in on May 31st, and hopefully I'll figure out some 'net access here soon. I'm still deciding between a few companies, because the cheapest company has all sorts of strange rules, and I'm not sure if I wanna worry about those ... :(

Anyway ... quick replies!

Niamhgold> <<It's a tight market and interns go first, unless they're unpaid, sadly...there's always next year, and you'll grab something great! Just earn up this summer :) That's what I'm doing>> Thank you! I hope you can save up a lot this summer and all ... I'll be trying to do the same. :) And yes, I'll try again next summer too!

Jan> **hugs** Hi! :) Silly prank caller to 911 ... have fun puttin' him to work around the department! ;)

LM and FS> Congratulations on the house!!!!! I hope everything goes well, and that all your stuff ends up okay too. :)

Coyote> **kisses** Hiyas!!! :) Miss you, sweetie ... :)
Ravyn
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:11:11 PM
IP: 12.163.114.78

Okay, I have TRIED the dumb online registration form for 2 weeks now, I sent an email and everything. If I have a May 15th post-mark on the mail in form I filled out today, does that mean I only have to pay the $45 or do I need to pay the $60? I'm confused_oh so confused...I swear, computers HATE me!!!

cherry
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:02:23 PM
IP: 198.234.250.162

Uuuuugghhh I had something in my system that kept me up all night in the bathroom either vomiting or diarrhea.
I hate stomach viruses, Especially when it keeps me from seeing the season finally of Crossing Jordan. I spent most of yesterday in bed. rehydrating. The only good thing that came from this was my muse bonked me on the head with the creativity mallet. Now I got an idea for an Adult CR fic.

Hard to believe there is a principal that’s even worse than Jan’s former boss, but there is . In the city of St Cloud at St Cloud High. There is a student with Down Syndrome who was promised that he would graduate this year. Well now the school year is almost over and the boy’s family was told he wouldn’t be graduating, because he needs a few more credit hours.
Now the majority of the school is saying to let him walk with his friends at graduation, They are not saying let him graduate or be given a diploma, but just let him walk. The Hard headed principal won’t let him walk. The radio station that I listen to’s morning Deejays are all over the story. People are calling for support. Well the latest so far is that the station has ban banned from the school. Now today was the worst. A sophomore girl has organized a sit in at the flagpole in support for the boy. Well they got a good group going until the jackass called the cops on his students. They were just sitting peacefully. The only one who was arrested was the girl or organized the sit in. A local news crew came out to report this and the cops tried to chase them away.

Green Baron<<<more like partners in crime >>> Green Baron is the CR Whore ;)

Niahmgold<<<Whoa. Florida's got the luck of the Irish.>>>Yeah were lucky. We start back in August<<<Whipped cream on top of everything, yeah!>>>Not on green stuff..unless the green stuff is Jello or pistachio ice cream, or mint chocolate chip ice cream.<<<Not unless I get some Tasuki fan action! >>>Wilek has already been granted that…maybe you can be one of Mooncat’s warriors.

Gside<<<More along the lines of "make love, not war." >>>Dud you’d get worn out, not too mention need an ice pack for your groin.<<<And I have my suspicions about leather.>>>Not in Florida. I prefer clothing that breaths.<<<But we like Skippy.>>> I was quoting Cordy.

Josh<<<I've stopped asking my dad for money. I just pull directly from the college account.>>>Still send your dad that joke. He might get a kick out of it.<<<You hit on the guys in here. I think we can.>>>I know you do.<<<But every once in a while I find a decent one.>>>Like the beers they have in Hops? They brew it there and I’ve tasted it. Very robust with a sweet aftertaste.<<<These guys have mechanical engineering degrees.>>>Yeah he’s too stupid.<<<Spacebabie might.>>>HELL NO!!!! Not the government, the closest to that would be the president’s nephew.<<<wish they wouldn't do that.>>>Yes There shouldn’t be any classes before 11:00 am.

Warpmind<<<Uh, I MEANT to say typo for bad, actually... the l kinda just slipped in there... :p>>>With those pauses and elipses you even type cute.

Mooncat. I totally agree with you on children on welfare. I don’t agree with you on mandatory birth control…Way too 1984, but of coruse my brother is the poster boy for vasectomies . Use him as an example “You could end up with this”
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:36:25 AM
IP: 67.25.52.28

DPH> Forgot to ask. Can I have your e-mail so I can give you the name privately? thanks.
metaldemon
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:12:44 AM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Ps. Sorry for not being around...but I'm in FINALS week..at college..AND its my senior year.. :(
Siryn - [<---Register for the Gathering!]
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 09:46:27 AM
IP: 129.21.153.86

Registering for the gatheirng at the LAST POSSIBLE MINUTE?

http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/online-reg-form.html

THERE is the URL. It IS online...(I just stupidly did NOT update the linke! -_-;;)

PLEASE pass this on if anyone is having problems!
Siryn - [<---Register for the Gathering!]
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 09:45:41 AM
IP: 129.21.153.86

Pat> I might also add to your comments that a faith-based charity organization here has an odd giving policy. They only give you food AFTER you let them into your house and you hear them minister to you. They don't let you have the food just cause you need it. Not only that, but they advertise themselves as having a food-pantry that, in reality, doesn't exist. It's a ploy to get people to either call or show up, so that they can bring you the food and sneak in Jesus. While I am 100% for ministry, I don't think Jesus should be forced in where he isn't wanted or asked for; that only annoys and deters people from ever being "saved." It does more harm than good.
metaldemon
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 09:22:51 AM
IP: 129.120.35.51

*Warpmind wanders in, pondering.*
Morrow, gang.

Not much to comment on today... But when it comes to the case of those illegal immigrants dying in the desert, well... if you take a little look at history, East Germany had a pretty efficient thing going. 'Course, the Berlin Wall was made to keep people IN, not OUT... хх

Josh: The judge can't legally execute the attorney. Order it, yes, but not pull the switch. };) (At least, this is according to my knowledge.)

Wilek: Odd, yes. But who is Squee, again, and why haven't you been around of late? We need your utter and total lack of sanity here.

Well, that about sums up my post. Oddly enough. I think I'll just go do some arbitrary soul-working. (Just got Afterlife in the mail. Fun game; hilarious advisors.)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 07:46:56 AM
IP: 193.217.213.207

Jan > Let's see... Catholics, Mormons (though some sects have recently changed their stance), and Christian Scientists (who askew all medicine) to start. I'm not sure of the specific denominations of all those preachers who crusade on cable TV or the 700 Club, but I suppose I can check when they're on again this weekend.

DPH > The problem with "faith based" organizations is that these are private organizations free to set their own rules about how the money is used and who gets it. Under the current laws, once they cash a check from you, me, or Uncle Sam, there's no independed oversight required on what the money gets used for. And because they are private religious organizations, there is nothing that keeps them from setting discrimanatory disbursement policies, either. For example, a Christian faith-based charity is perfectly within their rights to say "Jews and Muslims need not apply" just as the Boy Scouts are within their rights to prohibit homosexuals. The government is supposed to exist seperate from religion, and operate for the benefit of ALL citizens. Individual citizens supporting faith-based charities based on their own individual preferences is fine. That's how charity is supposed to work. The government, however, should be in the business of providing and supporting programs available to all Americans, regardless of religious preference.
Patrick Toman
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 07:10:21 AM
IP: 66.72.207.116

Today was my LAST DAY OF CLASSES!!! Got some stuff back from teachers, handed in my last couple of assignments, did some reviewing of the teachers and classes. Even started studying for my first final (which is on Saturday).

Apple came out with Xserve today, its long-awaited entry into the enterprise server market. It's only 1U, yet it has 4 drive bays, three PCI slots, 2 G4's...blah blah blah impressive stats. It's quite a sweet machine.

Impfac: <<So what? Fascism made the trains run on time>>: And that was one of its merits. <<Be nice if we did that overseas, too, in places were it’s desperately needed>>: Yeah, like france. <<$800 for six months>>: Damn, you must be a lousy driver. As in, worse than me.

Wilek: Where do you find this crap?!

Kaioto: <<MacWorld and O'Riley>>: O'Riley gave a speech at the WorldWide Developers Conference I attended last week. It was really good. He's a pretty smart guy. <<a special issue of MacWorld dedicated completely to OSX>>: Eh, every mac magazine has done that. <<the more I read the more I have to get my hands on this operating system>>: IT ROCKS. Its so stable as a client I'm amazed. no crashes anymore, no kernel panics, no nothing. Well, except for microsoft products being stupid... <<looking for lab-rats to test out the OSX under fire>>: It should stand up. And its fully compatible with clients that use windows, linux, unices, mac os, whatever. <<Yes Josh, you can stop smirking any time now>>: Why would I do such a thing?

Jan: <<instead of answering me, you become sarcastic>>: Welcome to the TGS CR. <<what's wrong with waiting until you're married?>>: Absolutely nothing...unless you're pro-choice, aparently. Because more abortions advances that position...I think... <<or even worse… we have athletes making that kind of money too>>: That is worse. They should rot. <<if you wait until you can afford to have children, you’ll never have any>>: Good! If I define "afford" by my standards, which is retiring at 40, I'll never have to worry about the brats. <<only the rich would be allowed to have children>>: And there's nothing worse than spoiled brats...and I should know. <<The size of your bank account does not constitute if you will be a good parent and provider>>: Good parent, no. But I think the size of bank account is significant it how good a *material* provider you can be for your kids. Note that says nothing about emotional support etc. And some material provisions are important for kids. <<how the elderly are going to starve to death, eat catfood, etc. if we don’t fix the Social Security situation>>: Yes well none of my grandparents eat cat food. <<I've now joined the ranks of DSL users. Whoa! it's fast>>: Amen. Broadband rocks.

DPH: <<There is such a thing as nursing homes for the invalid>>: Agreed. <>: As if that could happen objectively. <<Would you rather cut off getting a tax write-off for donating to your church or have some tax write-off go to helping false religions?>>: Who defines a "false" religion? I don't believe Jesus was the son of god (I don't have any children)...does that make Christianity a "false" religion?

Gside: <<Last test today>>: I hate you. <<But it's hard to prove income for 20 years>>: Good. Maybe then people will stop breeding. <<A gallery of all the infamous Flash animations. Including AYB, Hatten, and others>>: Next suggestion. Like, something I could actually implement. <<This semester's probably going to take it down a bit more>>: Yeah, same here. Bye bye 3.5. <<Shocking, I know>>: Especially for a Berkeley student.

Okay we're done watching Episode II. I'll post a review tomorrow. Good nite.

There is an old vulcan proverb: only Nixon could go to China.
-Spock, “Star Trek VI: the Undiscovered Country”

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 05:19:24 AM
IP: 64.173.21.117

Last test today. Pretty easy, except for a couple specifics I couldn't remember, but I bluffed.

Imzadi> <<5!? 5?! 20!>>: But it's hard to prove income for 20 years, what with how odd the economy tends to be.
<<Next suggestion?>>: A gallery of all the infamous Flash animations. Including AYB, Hatten, and others.
<<The latter is not perverted>>: You don't know me well, do you?
<<Whoa. A better student than I am>>: This semester's probably going to take it down a bit more. The highest it reached was 3.818 after last summer. But I might not be a better student, considering how little I study.
<<And white, to boot>>: Shocking, I know.

Wilek> <<Is anyone else reminded of Squee?>>: No, but it seems a bit reminiscent of the USSR anthem.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:08:51 AM
IP: 165.230.240.115

Here's something I would like to mention. Once, I saw somebody use food stamps to buy food with one purchase and then make another purchase to buy cigarettes. Isn't that, also, enabling?

Imzadi - <what if the elderly is an invalid and they're being taken advantage of?> There is such a thing as nursing homes for the invalid. Before anyone responds that I am uncaring, my grandfather has Alzeihmers and I promise you that a nursing home is the best place for him. I remember having to hold him down so that my mom could take his clothes off so that he could take a shower.

Metaldemon - <And for another reason why I dont' governmant money going to religious organizations is that I don't want my money going to Mosques, Synogogue, or any other religions out there that I don't belive in. I will not fund false religions.> I didn't say government money should go to churches. I don't mind government money going to faith-based charities that teach right and wrong.

I would like to mention something about the screening process my church used before handing out money: 1)a couple of phone calls were made to do a background check and 2)if you come by too often, you will get caught off from receiving more help.

I occasionally wonder if government stopped giving money out for welfare and cut taxes with all that money, would the poor still be taken care of? My answer would be "no" unless there were incentatives to give money to charities that spend 5% or less of their money on administrative costs and 95% or more of their money went directly to people.

Others from the religious right - Would you rather cut off getting a tax write-off for donating to your church or have some tax write-off go to helping false religions?
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 11:44:22 PM
IP: 204.94.193.24

Jan>>*LOL* ohboy, that brings back a lot of memories! I’ve probably had more birthday parties surrounded by scouts and scouters than I’ve ever had at home! *L*
Was this ya’lls Scout Fair?>>
Yup... this was the annual Scout Show at Market Hall in Dallas. Our pack got three ribbons for our booth (assorted bean bag/ring toss/box hockey games that the boys ran). We're looking for a Scout troop for Paul to move up to after he finishes his last year of Webelos --- an event that I will no doubt cry at and embarrass Paul to no end.

>>What district are you in? I may know some of the people involved there =) >> We're in Tomahawk.

I wouldn't mind being an adult leader if it wasn't for the 2 ADHD kids that would be moving up to Wolf with me... one of them needs his medication adjusted. *cringes* Otherwise, I look at it as just a different form of teaching, which I'm really starting to enjoy.
Spike
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 08:32:31 PM
IP: 64.216.238.7

Patrick> you've blamed religious organizations for being responsible for something that they have no control over and for something that I have _never_ heard any of them discussed in all of my contact with churches and teachings thru out my life.... so yeah, I consider that a cheap shot. Somehow you managed to bring religion (and place the blame on them) into a topic that no one else seemed to. I asked you where you received your information and instead of answering me, you become sarcastic.

<< Why should they expect that everyone else in the country shares their same religions views?>>
Christians shouldn't compromise their beliefs. They don't expect everyone else to believe the same way, but that won't keep them from trying to convince others to become Christians too. It's the duty and responsibility of every Christian to be a good example and to teach the Gospel.
The particular topic of pre-marital sex... remove the religious belief of it being wrong and what's wrong with waiting until you're married? What does it hurt? You'd have fewer unplanned pregnancies, fewer single moms struggling to raise a child, fewer STD's, fewer teen suicides, the true meaning of having a sexual relationship would be restored, etc.I will not condemn those who have pre-marital sex. It's their choice. I will, however, recommend to anyone that they consider it very carefully before doing it.
<< And if we want to arrive at solutions for social problems in a democratic society, we all have to be willing to deal with the fact that we're all not of the same mind and beliefs.>> In a perfect world that will happen. Show me a left wing liberal that will compromise his beliefs and conform to happy medium with a conservative Christian Republican.
<>
I have no problem when you disagree with something or someone - as long as it's not a blanket attack with nothing to back it up. You have every right to attack the "religious organization" - but when you have place total blame for something that they are not guilty of, I or someone else might have a rebuttal or defense. You replied with a sarcastic answer.
<> No, you point blank said that because of the religious organizations, there will never be any form of mandatory birth control. I fail to see the collation between the two since I’ve never heard of any conservative religious groups making this type of claim or stance. (with the exception of the Catholic Church and their issues with birth control)
You know, I really did like the "old" Patrick much better.
<< Union or not, these are all jobs already being done by someone else. So what benefit is it to the workforce as a whole to take these jobs away from the people who currently perform them in order to give them to people on goverment assistance?>> nooooo… jobs can be created to assist those who are already employed. That’s how it works anyway with the already established government assistance jobs. By adding more people to the park service, DOT, etc. it will increase the amount of work performed and it won’t be at any additional costs to the state because the welfare check is already being given to the individual and it won’t eliminate any current employees. It’s in addition to, not in place of.

Spike> *LOL* ohboy, that brings back a lot of memories! I’ve probably had more birthday parties surrounded by scouts and scouters than I’ve ever had at home! *L*
Was this ya’lls Scout Fair? Houston has theirs on the first Saturday in December. I don’t know when they hold them here yet. When Zach becomes Tiger age, I’m sure we’ll all be right there wearing the orange t-shirt with him. *L* I’ve been asked to become a Commissioner here, but I’m not sure if I’m ready to step back into scouting again… at least just yet. Yes, you do have time to be a wolf leader ;) I didn’t think I’d have time either when I became a Webelo’s Leader, but it’s amazing how quickly it just becomes part of your routine. After our den crossed over, I became so involved at the district level that being a den leader was a piece of cake. Heh Go to training! *nodnodnod* It should be very informative and fun : ) What district are you in? I may know some of the people involved there =)

Metaldemon> << You are so rude>> No I’m not. YOU are the one who said that Republicans bomb anything/anyone who gets in their way.
<> then you should have said so. Given the current state of affairs, it’s a natural assumption to think that you were referring to the current fight against terrorism.

Josh> << We have CEO's making hundreds of millions of dollars a year.>> or even worse… we have athletes making that kind of money too.
<> amen, brother.
<< We were so close to not flaming each other.>> I’m not going to flame back *shakes head* It’s the new kinder and gentler Jan ;)
<< you should have to provide minimum basic requirements of steady income or savings that would meet the needs of providing for a child for a projected 5 year period>>: 5!? 5?! 20!>> actually there is an old saying, “if you wait until you can afford to have children, you’ll never have any.” That’s true, too. While you should have a good steady income/job – to actually have a set amount put away to raise a child for a 5 year or any projected time is neither feasible nor likely to happen. Very few people are capable of putting away that kind of money into a savings account. Having a child would then become an elitist situation… only the rich would be allowed to have children. It is wise to have some savings stashed away in which to build on while the children are growing up, but I wasn’t able to (for many years) and I have always provided for my children. The size of your bank account does not constitute if you will be a good parent and provider.
<< But children should not be used as leverage to extract money from my paycheck.>> amen again, brother. ;) Using the phrase “the children will starve” is an example of the scare tactics that a lot of liberals and/or democrats use…. Same as how the elderly are going to starve to death, eat catfood, etc. if we don’t fix the Social Security situation.

They caught the prank caller yesterday. He made over 200 prank calls to our dispatch/911 number within a total of 4 hours. He thought he was invincible because he was on a cell phone… he was on the phone to our dispatch when the detective showed up at his doorstep. *L* I would have loved seeing his face! He will be sentenced to 100 hours of community service… at the sheriff’s dept!! Isn’t life grand? ;) He’ll get to meet all of us that he called whores, sluts, threatened to kick our asses, and he’ll meet the sheriff – the one he called a faggot. *LOL* He will pulling weeds and planting a new flower garden, cleaning floor tiles, walls, toilets, windows… hehe
*hugs the Juvenile Officer*

We're going to go look at a potential house for Anna to purchase. It's on the lake, it's in her price range and has owner financing! :)

Please note my new email address:
janmiller@mchsi.com

I've now joined the ranks of DSL users. Whoa! it's fast! hehe
Jan - [janmiller@mchsi.com]
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 07:08:59 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Kai: You might want to tell them to wait for the Jaguar release of OS X, coming at the end of this summer. I have the developer seed, and its gonna be 10 times better (no pun intended).
Josh
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 05:42:44 PM
IP: 64.173.21.117

http://www.aagad.org/originsawards/

The Origins Awards are open for public voting online. Ph33r!

Go vote for your favorite new Gaming products, systems, and novels of the year. Everyone should recognize at least few designers / authors out there.

In other news, MacWorld and O'Riley got together and hammered out a special issue of MacWorld dedicated completely to OSX. I've been interested this past month about what Darwin is capable of, but the more I read the more I have to get my hands on this operating system.

How convient that our tech-supplier group is looking for lab-rats to test out the OSX under fire. :)

Yes Josh, you can stop smirking any time now.

Later,
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 03:36:01 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Click me name for something...odd. (Is anyone else reminded of Squee?)
Wilek
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 02:46:49 PM
IP: 216.65.106.130

Well, made it in on Friday and have tried to post once before but the evil that is AOL and its evil twin CompuServe would not allow it.
SO hopefully this will work, should have tested it first.
just confirming my existance and trying to get back to work, which is rather rediculous since I'm going to have to turn around and ask for time off again for A-kon.
Never said i was a good planner, I like when things solve themselves.

"Maybe... maybe if I stare into the paper long enough the test will solve itself."
-April, CRFH-

no more test for me ];)
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
the bayou city, tx
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 12:19:50 PM
IP: 172.143.68.246

Christine>> Loooooooooooved "Coventry" --- faboo! It's been such a long time since I've had the time to read fanfic, I'd forgotten what a joy it is to read your stuff.

Jan>> You're probably one of the few people in the room that can relate to this -- I just spent my 17th wedding anniversary with thousands of scouts at the Dallas Scout Show. (Little did I know I was marrying a cubmaster!) I'm hoping I lose this urge to go for the leader training this summer... I'm too busy to busy to run a Wolf den.

Warpmind & Gside>> Locks of Love is a non-profit organization that takes hair donations and makes them into wigs for children undergoing chemo and other illnesses that cause hair loss. I'm afraid they don't pay for your hair -- however, their website does include a listing of hair salons that will cut your hair for FREE if you donate it.

I'd pass on the link, but I'm currently in internet limbo while the hubs is setting up my new computer, thanks to the hard drive going toes up on the old one. I'm hoping the 'new computer smell' goes away soon so he'll let me use it!

Well, it's off to the exciting world of matting pictures for me -- only 15 more days until A-kon 13 in Dallas. Fun, fun.... later!
Spike
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 10:10:44 AM
IP: 64.216.238.7

Christine> Interesting. Seems like a book that might appeal to you ;) I’ve been watching the movie over the last few days (I wanted my dad to rent it for my birthday rather than during finals, but got a flat, “no”), and have started working on the book...

My heart flutters every time I see that beautiful machine. She’s even displaced a teasing, nude Demona from my desktop (for now ;)

Reproduction> Aside from abortion-which I think can be debated since a valid ‘it‘s a human life‘ argument can be made-the government should not be controlling our reproduction.

Yeah, some systems taking away the right to have a child might value children more or provide for them better. Sure, a system of centralized government reproduction has merits. Merits out to wazoo. So what? Fascism made the trains run on time.

Besides, how on earth do you enforce this? Sorry to sound mean, but the very IDEA makes me shudder...

As for welfare, we could hypothetically apply some of your standards, I suppose. I wouldn’t have a huge problem with it, ‘cept that it might encourage abortions. Personally, I wouldn’t mind if the government gave out free birth control and performed sterilizations. It’s a hell of a lot better than the alternatives. Be nice if we did that overseas, too, in places were it’s desperately needed.

Metal Demon> to Jan <<<You are so rude, I am not even going to respond to a single damn thing you said.>>>

Well, Jan was being a bit rude. But she made some good points-ones I think you should look at. Because, frankly, I don’t think you COULD respond to them. Social engineering simply doesn’t work. Welfare is a massive, gargantuan failure. It’s time to cut our losses. We’ve declared “war on poverty” in this country so many times I’ve lost count-and we’ve lost.

It’s not valid to bash the Church thanks to ONE Church. Besides, this is a story a friend told you-and those are infamously misleading.

Hyperion> I thought you wanted to debate Israel... I’m just starting my paper about Israel and the peace process with regards to Jerusalem, so I’m in the mood ;)

Gathering> Esh. Kind of a race for me. I have until this Saturday to get car insurance ($800 for six months). I hope I have a few pennies left over to buy some nifty stuff ;-) Grrr... that’s IF the Buick is on her feet again by then. Poor girl.

Later,

IMPFAC
IMPERIAL FASCISM
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 04:11:14 AM
IP: 169.226.230.45

I had to wake up early today for ONE class at 9AM. I wish they wouldn't do that.

We went to a Thai restaurant for my best friend's birthday today. He's 21. His dad is sending him and two friends to vegas next weekend, and I don't get to go because I'm not 21 :-*(

And look, a new flame war is brewing! Joy.

Warpmind: <<Let's hope the judge just dismisses the case and fines the attourney, eh?>>: Fines? How about executes?

Patrick: <<once we started letting burglars and rapists sue their intended victims for fighting back and shooting them in the kneecaps>>: Worse, they can sue if they hurt themselves during the crime! <<20-foot tall electrified fencing with "No entrada!" signs>>: I seriously think that would be cheaper. <<the same groups who want to restrict the access of the poor to abortion and birth control by removing government funding are the same groups who then turn around and want to also restrict aid to the children who result>>: That's why I'm pro-abortion 8-) <<put on thy tie and get thee to thy cubicle, sir intern!>>: For the record, I don't have to wear a tie 8-) <<If everyone in the country followed the same religious and ethical code, of course, we'd have no problem>>: Which is something else the right wing would love to see. <<shouldn't it apply to ALL children, whether the child be "mistake" number one or "mistake" number six?>>: Yes. But children should not be used as leverage to extract money from my paycheck. <<where will the "simple goverment jobs" come from to fuel it?>>: No one had a problem creating jobs the last time a public works program went into effect. <<Why should they expect that everyone else in the country shares their same religions views?>>: Who says they do? All they say is that pre-marital sex is wrong. They don't want people having pre-marital sex, either because its morally reprehensible or because the burden is paid for by John Q. Public.

Mooncat: <<educational programming>>: Is that like brainwashing? <<you should have to provide minimum basic requirements of steady income or savings that would meet the needs of providing for a child for a projected 5 year period>>: 5!? 5?! 20!

Metaldemon: <<It doesn't pay much; you can't live off of it>>: It doesn't matter. Even if its supplemental income, its still not right to pay people to have babies. <<What if the people are using money to buy illegal substances? Don't know; haven't thoguht that far into it>>: How about something simple: NO MONEY FOR YOU. I'm not paying for people to have babies and then buy drugs. F*ck them. <<You are so rude, I am not even going to respond to a single damn thing you said>>: We were so close to not flaming each other.

Impfac: <<Isn’t reproductive freedom the cry of the Feminists?>>: Not quite. Most of them want freedom from sperm. And quite frankly, its tough to have reproduction w/o it. <<how you can be pro-choice AND for mandatory birth control>>: I think its as simple as not believing that abortion should BE birth control. Being pro-choice does not mean you're in favor of every two-bit flat getting knocked up. <<Welfare spending currently outstrips defense spending>>: Now THAT is scary. <<all for more than it cost to fight World War Two-FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS>>: Is that adjusted for inflation? And is that just US spending?

Jan: <<can average up to around $350 a week>>: WHAT!? That's a lot of cash! <<because their welfare income is higher>>: That's lame. Nothing should pay worse than welfare, benefits included. <<That sounds like an unemployment check, not a welfare check>>: Maybe they should be tied together. <<is grounds for immediate death>>: Or at best, a flogging from the offended republicans. <<Some people don't make a lot of money but they know how to make each dollar count and provide quite nicely for their family on an amount that someone else might consider poverty>>: It's always amazed me how true that is. I know families that live on a combined income of less than 75% of what I think I need to make in a year to be comfortable. Then again, I'm a spoiled brat. <<Phone traces are sure not like in the movies>>: You seem surprised. Nothing is like in the movies 8-) <<All I'm saying is that there needs to be a program where people actually EARN their income>>: Earn their income?! Not in this country! We have CEO's making hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Yggdrasil: <<If you want to see Star Wars II any time soon you might want to get your tickets EARLY>>: There are people who want to see Star Wars II?

DPH: <<World Hunger>>: Because if anything needs more resources...its hunger. <>: what if the elderly is an invalid and they're being taken advantage of?

Gside: <<Porn. Porn and kittens>>: I don't have the space for porn, uploading it would take forever, and I don't have any kittens. Next suggestion? <<Don't be. You have a job>>: Yeah, but I want a job there. <<What about any sort of interest in me. Even as a lab animal>>: The latter is not perverted. <<3.68 over 135 credits>>: Whoa. A better student than I am. And white, to boot.

There’s no excuse for this kind of erratic retardism.
-Adam Carolla, “Loveline”

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 02:46:53 AM
IP: 64.173.21.117

Lila> Congratulations on the improved health.

Imzadi> <<Suggestions are welcome for material that should be added>>: Porn. Porn and kittens.
<<Not everything>>: Need some space for the chocolate and sprinkles.
<<I'm so jealous>>: Don't be. You have a job.
<<If that doesn't mark a pervert, nothing does>>: What about any sort of interest in me. Even as a lab animal.
<<You've obviously never seen her>>: No, but my mother's a small little thing and she winters better than my father.
<<LOL! Way to be evasive!>>: Actually, for some reason, I wasn't reading. Probably still disoriented from DigE. 3.68 over 135 credits.
<<Could be worse. Somehow. I'm sure. I just haven't thought of how yet>>: Let me know if you come up with something.
<<FreeBSD>>: Or any of the Unix clones.
<<Is that like high fructose corn syrup?>>: But tasting more like sap.
<<Through Niamh's grandparents?>>: My own great grandparents.

Soylent Green is people.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 01:49:35 AM
IP: 165.230.240.115

Jan> <<Yeah yeah.. cry me a frickin' river.>>

You are so rude, I am not even going to respond to a single damn thing you said. I wasn't even responding to WTC, I was responding to the incidents when we ovethrow governemnts so we can reap profits from them. Thanks for your presuppositions.

And for another reason why I dont' governmant money going to religious organizations is that I don't want my money going to Mosques, Synogogue, or any other religions out there that I don't belive in. I will not fund false religions.

DPH> I'll ask my friend the mext time I see him.

metaldemon
Tuesday, May 14, 2002 12:08:52 AM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Metaldemon - <It was Christmas, and he wanted tp help a REALLY broken family [the parents were addicted to some drug, were poor] and the kids weren't going to have a christmas. He asked the church to help give these kids a Christmas, and the church refused, sayig they "weren't Christian people" "they weren't the type to help" or something like that .> Give me that name of that church because that church is going to be busted unless one condition applies: they don't have the resources to help that family. Even if the church didn't provide presents (there are legitimate concerns about the presents being sold to support the drug habit), the church could provide a warm meal for the whole family. I'm proud to say my church has a benevolence fund set up to help the passers-by and my church donates a percentage of its income to World Hunger. Of course, people are screened to ensure that they aren't taking advantage of my church's benevolence.

IMPFAC - <Anyone receiving welfare should take a mandatory drug test. If they don’t want to be tested, they cannot receive the aid.> I can agree to that along with kicking people out of public housing who sell illegal drugs. I even agree to kicking the elderly out of public house if their relatives are using the location to store illegal drugs. <Besides, most conservatives are for helping poor children-we just recognize that welfare has never and will never do that.> That's why I believe in letting charities and organized religion do that.

Today is my dad's birthday. I have always had trouble remembering it.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, May 13, 2002 11:08:26 PM
IP: 204.94.193.59

New on my site:
"Coventry" -- the story of Godiva's new hotel and the final fate of Coldsteel. Mature eyes only, please.
Also updated my Gargoyles Links page and some other stuff.
Click or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html

Happy belated Mother's Day to my fellow moms out there!

Impfac > I didn't much care for my own first name until that book came out. Then I loved it. Which is why I much prefer going by Christine as opposed to any of the shorter nicknames.

Mooncat > thanks for the feedback!

I seem to have begun a new book. Wasn't expecting to and it wasn't the one next on my list, but since the idea is there I'm going to go with it and see what happens.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Monday, May 13, 2002 09:43:49 PM
IP: 67.226.47.233

Greetings;

This is a warning to all Canadians out there. If you want to see Star Wars II any time soon you might want to get your tickets EARLY!!!!

Due to the restrictions placed upon theatres by Fox most theatres in Canada (with 100% of Famous Players Silver City locations) will only have 1 reel of the film per theatre, this means only one auditorium will be showing the film per location. I don't know about independent theatres of Cineplex Odeon but for now, were screwed.

BTW the reason for this is that I believe Fox required that the theatres must keep Attack of the Clones in their largest auditorium for at least 5 weeks or so. This means that if a theatre wanted to have three copies of the film, they would have to write off their three largest screens for a full 5 weeks. With such films as MIB2, Austin Powers 3...ect. They really didn't want this. I hope I am wrong, but so far it would appear that I am correct, just look at Famous players web site.

Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Monday, May 13, 2002 09:28:57 PM
IP: 24.43.225.56

Jan > "I don't think there are too many unions in charge of roadside clean-ups, park clean up and repairs, etc. There are a ton of jobs available that people without higher education or skills can do that will not take away from the union jobs." - Union or not, these are all jobs already being done by someone else. So what benefit is it to the workforce as a whole to take these jobs away from the people who currently perform them in order to give them to people on goverment assistance? That's just trading one group of unemployed for another. The effort has to be made to create diverse array of NEW jobs, and it's private enterprise that's best equiped to do that. Whether they're created to provide a place for the current holders of the "menial" goverment jobs to move up into to make room for the workfare recipients, or created for the workfare recipients themselves... the point is that the focus has to be on increasing the total number of positions available so as to lower the unemployment rate.

"geesh, you sure seem to like to take cheap shots at religious organizations, huh?" - Oops, sorry... I forgot we're not allowed to direct any form of criticism at any politics based upon religion, because that's automatically a "cheap shot." I simply was seeking to point out that I found a simultaneous stance against birth control AND sexual education to be contradictory.

"well, d'uh! It's against religious beliefs to have pre-marital sex, so of course they are going to advocate no sex. Why should the compromise on something they believe in to be wrong?" - Well, duh! Why should they expect that everyone else in the country shares their same religions views? That's my only point. Not everyone else does. And if we want to arrive at solutions for social problems in a democratic society, we all have to be willing to deal with the fact that we're all not of the same mind and beliefs.
Patrick Toman
Monday, May 13, 2002 08:21:55 PM
IP: 66.72.201.196

sorry, I didn't see Patrick's post until after I posted...

Patrick> <<but where will the "simple goverment jobs" come from to fuel it? Will the labor unions who's members populate these jobs now just quietly hand them over and allow their members to be laid off to make way for the "workfare" recipients? >> I don't think there are too many unions in charge of roadside clean-ups, park clean up and repairs, etc. There are a ton of jobs available that people without higher education or skills can do that will not take away from the union jobs. The government already has an incentive program to hire the mentally disabled or the poverty level individuals and it's not working too well. All I'm saying is that there needs to be a program where people actually EARN their income.

<<but mandatory birth control is never going to happen in this country so long as conservative reglious groups have anything to say about it.>> geesh, you sure seem to like to take cheap shots at religious organizations, huh? Please tell me where your information comes from. Why is this limited to just conservative religious groups? I know some very liberal atheist that agrees with mandatory birth control. My religious preference has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on this issue. It's the Catholics who don't believe in birth control and I'm not Catholic.
<<And if you review their positions you'll see they don't want unwed women just to stop having babies, they want them to stop having SEX, period. >> well, d'uh! It's against religious beliefs to have pre-marital sex, so of course they are going to advocate no sex. Why should the compromise on something they believe in to be wrong? I don't have to compromise with anyone if I choose not to. I may end up with a lost battle, but at least my own convictions will not have been compromised.
<<People who see themselves as 100% correct typically do not want to make a compromise. >> It can also be called a conviction. Very few people these days are willing to stand by their convictions in order to "compromise" with something that they don't believe in just to make someone else happy. Sometimes that's ok, but sometimes it's not.

<<If we agree that the government should provide for a basic minimal standard of living for all children, shouldn't it apply to ALL children, whether the child be "mistake" number one or "mistake" number six? >> and when does it stop? When do we stop enabling and instead start forcing people to deal with the consequences of their own decisions? I didn't say cut off support to the children, but stop increasing the amount of money given to the parents for each child they continue to birth (after a set reasonable amount). The children will not be starved out because of this. As I said earlier - you'd be suprised at how many parents would stop having children if they knew that they wouldn't be receiving extra $$ for them.
I'm tired of being an enabler.
Jan
Monday, May 13, 2002 07:44:43 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Metaldemon> <<OK, for one, Welfare isn't much. It doesn't pay much; you can't live off of it. Soo all this talk about millions of poor people milking the systema nd living off of it is B.S. I have no doubt that there are people who are doing it successfully, but not everysingle person who is recieving help from the government. >> Income received from welfare can average up to around $350 a week. When you also receive free food, free medical care, free daycare, and government assistance living (rent can be as low as $50 a month and your utilities are paid for) then yeah, you CAN live off of welfare. I saw an interview of a woman on TV once and she referred to welfare as her "paycheck". If you ask a lot of these single moms why they won't get a job at minimum wage they'll all say that they can't afford to. That's right - they can't AFFORD to. Why? because their welfare income is higher.

Mooncat and I have both said that the benefits need to be given directly to the children. (ohmy! we've agreed on yet another issue! ;)) Texas has a credit card type program for food stamps that has considerably cut down on the abuse. Only certain items are available for purchase (basics and cheaper store brands) plus the cards are assigned with tight security to the individual (fingerprint identity, I think) This cuts down on the selling of food stamps for cash. It's not a perfect system and still a few have learned how to abuse it, but overall, it has saved the state a LOT of money.
<<A way welfare might be pulled-off is to set up a welfre office in cities, where people turn in the numbers of businesses they applied for work to, and they can also pick up their check. >> That sounds like an unemployment check, not a welfare check.

<<I find funny is that lots of Christians want to enforce a public moral; however, you hardly see one who wants to form an economic moral (i.e. giving to the homeless, hungry, poor, jobless, helping bussinesses about to go under, etc.)>> I don't know what you are talking about because all of my Christian friends are concerned with economic assistance as well. We just don't happen to be talking about that right now. Who are the major sponsors of homeless shelters? Food kitchens? Free Daycare centers? The majority of them are Christian based and/or church sponsored. I have no idea of where you've come to this conclusion that christians do not care about these issues.

<<yet another reason why I don't support churches>> If you base a reason for non-support of churches on isolated or rare incidents such as this, then you are just looking for an excuse not to.

<<like Republicans and Clinton and bomb anyone who gets in their way>> putting cliton's name in the same sentence or comparision with Republicans is grounds for immediate death. ;) Geesh, you figured out our real purpose in life... bomb those who get in our way. Gosh, I thought we were being so discreet and secretative. *rolls eyes*
Yeah, those pesky terrorist just "got in our way"... right in the middle of the WTC and Pentegon. How rude of us to bomb them now. Yeah yeah.. cry me a frickin' river.

MC> I agree with you with all but the mandatory birth control for all individuals. It can get into some sticky areas if one of the criteria is emotional stability, etc. At that point it becomes subjective and who is to define it? I do agree that if someone is on welfare - then they have no business birthing more children. Once they are OFF of welfare, then it's no one's business how many children they have. It's hard to determine financial stability or a set amount of income because it depends on where you live, how conservative you are with your money, etc. A family of 4 in Arkansas doesn't need as much money as a family of 4 in California. Some people don't make a lot of money but they know how to make each dollar count and provide quite nicely for their family on an amount that someone else might consider poverty. The only way I could forsee enforcing any type of mandatory birth control would be the welfare issue... and it's actually only "mandatory" as long as they want to continue receiving government assistance. If they don't like it - get off of welfare. *shrugs*

I spent almost 2 extra hours at work today... prank callers on our dispatch and 911 lines. *rolls* Finally the sheriff had me answer the lines and I was able to keep them online long enough to have a trace done. Phone traces are sure not like in the movies. These moron kids called me everything but a white woman - but I just thanked them each time ;) In order to keep them on the line long enough, I called him a wuss. That really set him off *L*
Officers should be at their residence any time now. I would sure love to be there when they show up! These kids thought they were invencible.

Jan
Monday, May 13, 2002 06:21:32 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Impfac - <<won’t provide aid unless you can prove you are law abiding>>

Prove you are law abiding. Catchy. Of course it does negate the whole "innocent until proven guilty" and personal privacy thing we as American's are so proud of.

Myself, I see no conflict with mandatory birth control, UNLESS deliberately trying to conceive a child, and pro-choice. You would still have the choice. When you want to have a child, you choose to go off of birth control. As for having a minimum basic income source to provide for the child you are deliberately trying to have, it's a simple enough requirement and doesn't have to depend on government controll, but cultural set standards. Any responsible person would not want to have a child when there is no financial support for it available. My little world vision, is fairly benign. No hoops or tests to have a kid, just a basic set amount of money either saved or having an income (by self, spouse, or sponsor) of a basic set amount at the time you wish to go off of birth control.

This appeals to my sense of capitalism as well. You can have as many children as you can afford to feed and cloth from infancy to legal adult hood.

Not a perfect system, but not bad.

But I doubt mandatory birth control will ever come to pass unless things get really bad population wise. However, I do advocate in Real Life, the promotion of birth control by the government and the private sector as much as possible whenever possible. Soon as a girl is biologically able to ovulate, let her have the choice to go in at any time and get a birth control implant, or pills, whatever, no questions asked. Total choice. I'd say the same for boys, if we ever get birth control options available for them.

I totally believe in choice. That having a baby should be a deliberate, thought out choice, not an accident or a mistake.

I believe when a child exists, it should have the basic requirements of food/good nutrition, clothing and shelter, and the opportunity for education.

I think children are precious things, and that society devalues them, especially those on welfare as faceless masses, devalues them as poor or having special needs.

I think children are too precious to waste carelessly.

If most children were only born because they were specifically chosen to to exist, their social value and status would rise accordingly. Their chances for a good and productive life will also increase.

There's no system without flaws, but I think my idea has it's merits.

Mooncat
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Monday, May 13, 2002 06:05:39 PM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Mooncat > Your ideas sound fine on paper, but mandatory birth control is never going to happen in this country so long as conservative reglious groups have anything to say about it. And one thing I will give those groups credit for is getting their view heard. They're vocal and unrelenting, and comprise some of the most powerful lobbyist groups outside of the gun and tobacco lobbies. And if you review their positions you'll see they don't want unwed women just to stop having babies, they want them to stop having SEX, period.

Whether that's a realistic goal, IMO, is highly debatable. It takes education to help a young person understand why he or she should NOT have sex even though it feels good, just like it takes education to help a person understand why drugs and alcohol are bad for them in the long run, too. Yet (for the most part), these same religion-based lobby groups are against sex education, too. So they seem to create their own catch-22, which in turn makes it hard to make practical suggestions. If everyone in the country followed the same religious and ethical code, of course, we'd have no problem. But that isn't the case here in the USA, either. There has to be compromise... and that itself is ussually the main sticking point. People who see themselves as 100% correct typically do not want to make a compromise.

Impfac > "If a women makes a mistake, why SHOULDN'T she be the one to pay the price?" - But what about the child, who's only mistake was to be born to a poor inner-city single mother instead of that ideal upper-middle-class suburban family? If we agree that the government should provide for a basic minimal standard of living for all children, shouldn't it apply to ALL children, whether the child be "mistake" number one or "mistake" number six?

As for practical suggestions... "workfare" sounds great on the surface, but where will the "simple goverment jobs" come from to fuel it? Will the labor unions who's members populate these jobs now just quietly hand them over and allow their members to be laid off to make way for the "workfare" recipients? Doubtful. Better, I think, to provide more incentives to private industry to provide the jobs, rather than increasing the size of the goverment bureacracy. Payroll subsidies and tax breaks... health insurance incentives... that sort of thing. Give more people a chance to get back into the workforce and help the economy grow at the same time. As for welfare aid for children... I agree with the suggestions that it should be sent directly to daycare, food programs, and other things that will directly benefit the child, reserving only a certain percentage to go directly to the parent for the day to day expenses. It won't totally eliminate the possibility of fraud, but it will help minimize it.
Patrick Toman
Monday, May 13, 2002 06:01:36 PM
IP: 66.72.201.196

one other thing, sorry>

Metal Demon> I am sure there are tons of holes here, but that's up to the Beuacracy to fix.>>> The Beuacracy is the PROBLEM-it will never provide the solution.

Many on welfare are drug addicts. Not all, but a disturbing many. Anyone receiving welfare should take a mandatory drug test. If they don’t want to be tested, they cannot receive the aid.

If they are drug addicts, the government should provide the aid to get them off drugs. If they remain off drugs, they continue to get their aid for the specified amount of time, provided a clean test. If they cease testing, their aid ends. If they come up positive, they lose aid, and possibly are sentences to compulsory rehabilitation combined with prison.

Isn’t that like mandatory birth control? No-the use of drugs is illegal, so the government testing for their use would merely be the stipulation that we won’t provide aid unless you can prove you are law abiding. Society has judge the use of drugs is immoral and harmful, and we’ve outlawed it. Tying aid to law abidance isn’t the same as tying it to the surrendering of your rights at the door. Having a kid is legal, and a fundamental right-totally different things.

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Monday, May 13, 2002 02:55:59 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Welfare and kids> I agree with the first half of what MC posted, and a bit of the second half. The government should hand out ONLY direct aid (food and health care), and only to children. Any other system will be defrauded and abused (IE: Food stamps).

As for the government controlling our reproduction? *shudders* I just wonder how someone who is pro-choice can at the same time seek to give control of everyone’s reproduction to the government. Arbitrary restrictions on something as basic as reproduction are wrong.

Mandatory birth control is as bad as compulsory abortion and the same as outlawing abortion, in my book. Both restrict freedom in an identical manner. Isn’t reproductive freedom the cry of the Feminists?

I just really don’t get how you can be pro-choice AND for mandatory birth control. I, personally, am not for mandatory ANYTHING, particularly when it comes to control of my reproduction.

Patrick> I sympathize with the plight of poor pregnant women, and *probably* want them to have the right to have an abortion, even if I still hate abortion. I don’t see the contradiction, though-we want everyone to pull their own weight-personally responsibility. Part of that is not getting pregnant in the first place. I know plenty of women who are waiting till marriage (yes, it DOES still happen).

If a women makes a mistake, why SHOULDN’T she be the one to pay the price? Besides, most conservatives are for helping poor children-we just recognize that welfare has never and will never do that.

Metal Demon> Welfare spending currently outstrips defense spending. Of course, our military actually works, and has made huge strides since the 1960’s. All the defense spending you so decry has produce more accurate weapons that prevent civilian deaths-something we would have far more of if we spent the way you want (although, of course, you would never involve us in a war, either, no matter the circumstance).

Welfare, however, has only produced a nation with more poverty, crime, drugs, teenage pregnancy, and out of wedlock children, all for more than it cost to fight World War Two-FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS.

We won world war II. This five trillion has done nothing.

Ditch it. End welfare.

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Monday, May 13, 2002 02:49:25 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

Welfare> OK, for one, Welfare isn't much. It doesn't pay much; you can't live off of it. Soo all this talk about millions of poor people milking the systema nd living off of it is B.S. I have no doubt that there are people who are doing it successfully, but not everysingle person who is recieving help from the government.

A way welfare might be pulled-off is to set up a welfre office in cities, where people turn in the numbers of businesses they applied for work to, and they can also pick up their check. IF the people haven't gotten a job after applying to dozens of places, then the pffice sends them to a Ready Labor place, and, for a portion out of their check, the office can help them find a job. What if the people are using money to buy illegal substances? Don't know; haven't thoguht that far into it.

I am sure there are tons of holes here, but that's up to the Beuacracy to fix.

Pat> Another thing I find funny is that lots of Christians want to enforce a public moral; however, you hardly see one who wants to form an economic moral (i.e. giving to the homeless, hungry, poor, jobless, helping bussinesses about to go under, etc.).

And the problem with letting private organizations handeling the poverty problem is 1) the organizaions themselves need help to help others 2) private organizations can enforce discrimination. For example, a firiend who I work-out with was in a church programe that helped needy/broken families. It was Christmas, and he wanted tp help a REALLY broken family [the parents were addicted to some drug, were poor] and the kids weren't going to have a christmas. He asked the church to help give these kids a Christmas, and the church refused, sayig they "weren't Christian people" "they weren't the type to help" or something like that . Of course, he clled the people hypocrites and all other sorts of colorful namesto their faces. He wasn't asking the church to give them a monthly check, he just wanted to kids to have something special for Christmas. (<----- yet another reason why I don't support churches [Christian and non-christian] getting money from the governmant to help the poor).

And because my opinion is oh-so important, Greg B. comes off as a Libertarian to me (Liberal civil affairs, Capitalist economics). Libertarians put their efforts into forming an equal opporunity society for everyone. After that, you're S.O.L.
I don't know if they are like Republicans and Clinton and bomb anyone who gets in their way, so you'd have to look up their foreign policy.
I'm lazy, so pardon my grammar.
metaldemon - [<---- Libertarian web-site]
Monday, May 13, 2002 09:38:32 AM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Mooncat's world vision on Welfare, Children, and birthcontrol...

Children and Welfare -- I think Children Welfare should focus on the feeding, clothing, and education of a child in need. Jeans and tee-shirts, undergarments, and hot meals, plus educational programming. I'd think it would be a good program to have Children Welfare money directed to daycare centers, and not have the money go to the parent at all, so that a uniform and productive use of the money could be assured. This would also free the parent to seek out daytime employment or go into a Welfare work program for other needs.

Older children would have regular school, but could go to the Children Station for a hot breakfast or supper.

Parents who do not make a legitimate effort to work, or provide adequate shelter for their children should loose their rights to their children.

Birth Control -- I think anyone (adult) who depends on welfare, should be on mandatory birth control as a requirement for receiving welfare. And no one should be given monies directly for any children they have.

Actually, I think all people should be on birth control as soon as they are biologically able to produce children, and have to deliberately go to a doctor to get their birth control shut off if they want to conceive a child, so that only deliberately planned children will result. So, I'm for mandatory birth control, unless you are deliberately trying to conceive a child. And that to have permission to go off birth control, you should have to provide minimum basic requirements of steady income or savings that would meet the needs of providing for a child for a projected 5 year period.

Mooncat
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Monday, May 13, 2002 08:29:56 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Patrick> how do you propose the problem be solved? You mentioned that the welfare system needed revamping, but what would you consider that to be? There are ways of weaning the adults off of welfare without the children starving. Children receive free food at the schools and there are summer programs to ensure that the children continue receiving their meals.
Instead of using the shock phrase of "starving children" - which is how we've gotten into such a mess with the system (by pulling on the heart strings of Americans and using the children as an excuse for giving lazy adults all the funding they want for doing nothing but birthing more children than they can afford) - what would you do to revamp the system?
I don't know of one single case of where welfare was cut to the adults and their children starved.
Instead of being an enabler, we need to provide temporary assistance and possible job training to redirect the adults into being more productive citizens.
We do have programs that take care of the children - we just need to cut out all of the other "benefits" received and we need to make sure that the programs are being used exclusively for what it's intended.

There have been lawsuits filed against the victim when they fought back against the attacker. I faintly remember a few cases in which the victim had to pay the criminal for damages. Screwed up legal system when that's allowed.

Speaking of criminals... time to go to work...
Jan
Monday, May 13, 2002 08:06:42 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Illegal alien lawsuit > I guess something like this was bound to happen once we started letting burglars and rapists sue their intended victims for fighting back and shooting them in the kneecaps. What we need, IMO, is not watering holes... it's several hundred miles of 20-foot tall electrified fencing with "No entrada!" signs spaced every 50 feet along with little silhouettes of a guy being zapped by 50,000 volts so even the illiterate can't say they weren't warned.

That being my conservative thought of the morning, let me seque right into my liberal one...

Welfare for poor children > It's always seemed contradictory to me that the same groups who want to restrict the access of the poor to abortion and birth control by removing government funding are the same groups who then turn around and want to also restrict aid to the children who result. It's a weird "once you're here, kid, you're on your own" attitude, and I've never been able to make sense of it. Why should the moral posturing about "right to life" and "saving the helpless children" apply only to the unborn? Is it fair to "punish" irresponsible parents by starving their children? Does welfare need reform? Yes, I think it does... but IMO it needs to be done in a more equitable, less draconian way.

And now other random comments:

Josh > "Oh yeah: NO MORE HOMEWORK FOR THREE MONTHS! ::does happy dance::" - Congrats. Now put on thy tie and get thee to thy cubicle, sir intern! ;)

Impfac > Read the stories... you'll see that Mooncat's Jezebel and Madame Destine's Jezebella are two completely different characters.

Eep... time to run off to work now.

:: bounces off ::
Patrick Toman
Monday, May 13, 2002 07:32:01 AM
IP: 66.72.201.196

*Warpmind wanders in, looking sadistic, gleeful and scheming. In other words, SNAFU.*
Morrow, gang.

Jan: Let's hope the judge just dismisses the case and fines the attourney, eh?

Spacebabie: Uh, I MEANT to say typo for bad, actually... the l kinda just slipped in there... :p As for it not being my decision - 'course it's not my decision. If anyone were to decide for you, I'd say it'd have to be you. ;) And who's Skippy anyway?

Gside: I dunno about the deduction, but Locks of Love is, AFAIK, a charity organisation. But I think Spike knows more about'em than I do...

Well, that about concludes the post. I'll leave you with this equation: 1 Black Templars Rhino loaded with ten Black Templars, including the Command Squad, surrounded by 24 Hormagaunts and shot by 1 Hive Tyrant with Venom Cannon equals... lunch. }:) 'Twas a glorious moment... and a joyous scream. };)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, May 13, 2002 05:19:38 AM
IP: 193.217.209.199

Howdy. Played a killer game of starcraft last night. And I actually beat my roommate's score (that never happens).

Oh yeah: NO MORE HOMEWORK FOR THREE MONTHS! ::does happy dance::

I'm in the process of updating my website. Suggestions are welcome for material that should be added.

Lady Mystic: Welcome back.

Warpmind: <<But... I had PEOPLE in that one!" "Yeah, yeah, they're canned food now>>: LOL. <<is that a typo for blad, or should I consult with my vast array of dictionaries?>>: It's just Count Blah speaking. <<if you think I'M adorable>>: maybe she's just blind? <<are you *sure* you want to accuse Mooncat of being human?>>: Why not? <<Might be better off setting up barbed wire fences along the border>>: I'm in favor of electrified fences.

Tribun: <>: That's because German is a cooler language than English. <<Translate it back and lat yourself surprise>>: I love translation engines.

Jan: <<the bleeding hearts said that it wouldn't be fair to child #6>>: F&CK the bleeding hearts. <<But unfortunately this isn't going to happen because it would be too much work and would require careful attention>>: Actually the biggest problem is democrats (as usual). <<How stupid is this?>>: What's stupider is that the government will probably lose this case.

Spacebabie: <<This reminds me of Josh and his Dad>>: I've stopped asking my dad for money. I just pull directly from the college account. <<You can consider me horny, and you can consider me slutty but I’m not a pervert>>: You hit on the guys in here. I think we can. <>: Most yes. But every once in a while I find a decent one. <<So there is a possible job for my brother>>: Uh, no. These guys have mechanical engineering degrees. <<Hey I’m still horny and slightly slutty>>: If you say so.

Impfac: <>: Spacebabie might.

Green Baron: <<We would convince the CR we were a couple by flirting or appearing to flirt>>: You've got to get yourself a life, man. A woman wouldn't hurt either. <<For me to attend G03 has to be a little after that date>>: That has little chance of happening. <<lobg term plans will wait for us to finsih our education..her HS and nursing, my law school>>: What does your vaunted christian morality say about being with a child? <<Their military is unionized so if we declared war on them, tehy'd just go on strike>>: Now that's funny. <<We could also get electric razors for the women to shave their armpits in the summer>>: They can use regular razors. They're cheaper. <<he'd go to the left of Jesse Jackson if he coudl stir up enough shit here>>: So true. <>: No one wants to know. <<and anyone else needing to beat the crap out of someone>>: That makes for a safe country.

Niamhgold: <<of course I'm a tool>>: No comment. <<but the first week of march in Baltimore is NOT what I'd consider spring break. It's cold and rainy and cold. Brrrrr>>: Sounds like a good excuse to get out of town. <<Good trick>>: No it wasn't. <<The arm's pretty good...it's still attached!>>: We'd be worried if it wasn't. <<Better not be *my* men!>>: You have men? <<compared to the beautiful-yet-too-pretty vaios>>: WTF does that mean? <<So is that a point?>>: No. <<monitor = replaced by viewsonic>>: But it still broke. Without any user error. <<Or eating on...nevermind>>: Uh...yeah... <<you haven't even finished the semester...imagine the first day at home>>: As if my parents would let me sleep that much. <<Watch it...you're talking about my grandparents there>>: That'll teach them to have 8 kids. <<Whipped cream on top of everything, yeah!>>: Not everything.

Gside: <<what's left is practically nothing>>: I'm so jealous. <<swordchucks do have that problem with fingers>>: Along with other extremities. <>: And if not, there's always her desire to hook up with me. If that doesn't mark a pervert, nothing does. <<Oh come on, you're from NH. You should be able to handle it>>: You've obviously never seen her. <<where else would I go?>>: Away from here. <<Grade Point Average. Actually, it's officially called a Cume here>>: LOL! Way to be evasive! <<I'm big and hairy. And a combination engineer and computer scientist. Everything's working against me>>: Could be worse. Somehow. I'm sure. I just haven't thought of how yet. <<It's probably because you're not on Linux, as opposed to upgrading to XP>>: FreeBSD. <<maple frosted donuts>>: Is that like high fructose corn syrup? <<Which is how I became related to half of Canada>>: Through Niamh's grandparents?

Lila: <<after losing about twelve pounds>>: Gross! <>: That's it? Bah.

You’re going to die very badly.
-Stuart Wilson, "No Escape"

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Monday, May 13, 2002 03:08:39 AM
IP: 64.173.21.117

WAHOO! I beat it, I finally won! I'm not sick anymore! I was near to death, danged evil viruses from HELL but now I'm back to drinking more than water and eating, BA BA BA BUM: SOLID FOOD!!! ::appreciate ooooh inserted here:: So ew, after losing about twelve pounds to the evil virus demon, I'm BACK from codine and god only knows what other drugs I was given over the last couple of weeks...
I *will* survive finals, I *will* get a tan from this pinked sunburn I acquired today in the 100 degree sun, and I *will* post more often! Since I havn't kept up at ALL, and I have two ten page papers due tomorrow (not started yet) I'll just wish everyone a charming mothers ...er, evening... and be off!
Ta,
Lila
Lila - [liejones@yahoo.com]
la, ca, usa
Monday, May 13, 2002 01:18:05 AM
IP: 134.173.120.173

Imzadi> <<Best of luck. At least you're almost through>>: Thank you. And what's left is practically nothing.
<<Only far more deadly>>: Yes, swordchucks do have that problem with fingers.
<<One for each...?>>: Oh yeah.
<<It's logic like this that lets you get raped on your finals>>: You just think it is.
<<For me, a habit>>: But saying stupid stuff is fun, and gives my brain time to rest.
<<No christian school will change a right winger into a left winger>>: Could be that immersion leads to oversaturation and exposure to the more annoying elements.
<<Not that good>>: Are you so sure?

Warpmind> <<Wigmakers? Dude, Locks Of Love>>: But do they pay? Or can I at least get a deduction?

Spacebabie> <<Tru if they were on your side then it will be too easy to beat the living snot out of the opposing side>>: No, that isn't quite what I meant. More along the lines of "make love, not war."
<<You can consider me horny, and you can consider me slutty but I?m not a pervert>>: I know you like the Jello. And I have my suspicions about leather.
<<Damn Skippy>>: But we like Skippy.

Niamhgold> <<you get in for free and chat it up with Kevin Smith>>: You can do the same at the Stash. Granted, Smith isn't guaranteed.
<<It's cold and rainy and cold. Brrrrr>>: Oh come on, you're from NH. You should be able to handle it.
<<good to see you're still around>>: Thank you. But where else would I go?
<<Better not be *my* men!>>: So I can't wear my tie dyed t-shirt any more?
<<What's your GPA, if you mind me asking?>>: Grade Point Average. Actually, it's officially called a Cume here.
<>: No, I'm big and hairy. And a combination engineer and computer scientist. Everything's working against me.
<<Just mingle with the mushroom people some more>>: You mean the Caterpillar?
<<Amen, though I get a few hisses for that>>: It's probably because you're not on Linux, as opposed to upgrading to XP.
<<Which begs the question...anyone a large fan of maple sugar?>>: Don't touch the stuff myself (except for the sugar cany occaisonally), but since I've got family up north, we're supplied. That, and my mother went into withdrawal when she found out they didn't sell maple frosted donuts here.
<<Watch it...you're talking about my grandparents there>>: Which is how I became related to half of Canada.
<<Oh, no WAY! Not unless I get some Tasuki fan action>>: Apparently this batch is going out to the guys. You might be able to pick it up next time.

And an mp3. How about some New Orleans action from Dr. John? Just found out about him. And as a bonus, you also get some BB King, too. Is You Is, Or Is You Ain't My Baby is the title.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscatway, NJ
Monday, May 13, 2002 12:50:45 AM
IP: 165.230.240.115

**Niamhgold enters quickly**

Hey again guys. Spent the weekend in Philly, half the time to visit friends who are much too advanced in animation, and the other half of my time spend to volunteer at Wizard World. Yes, of course I'm a tool. I'm a poor college student ;)

It was interesting, and hey, you get in for free and chat it up with Kevin Smith. And received some positive reviews of my portfolio by various companies, so that was uplifting and provides great inspiration for when I'm back to full sketching ability. Woo. Other than that...more stuff this week, then back to work next week. Woo again ;)

My school's piloting a new schedule. Start sept. 3rd, get out may 2nd. But spring break is now the first week of march. Don't get me wrong, shorter year and all...but the first week of march in Baltimore is NOT what I'd consider spring break. It's cold and rainy and cold. Brrrrr.

Thanks to all those who have welcomed me back, and welcome to all the newcomers ;)

I'm warning you, I'm hyper today. So...Replies!

DPH: <Yo, Wilek, has the Illuminati been working on a device that can create tornadoes> I think it's me...especially with that NY earthquake that struck us, too ;) <get my kitchen cabinets & table thoroughly cleaned> Whatever happened to people getting cases of the munchies?

GB: <This has been our prank on the CR :)> A little late for April Fool's, isn't it? ;) Good trick ;)

Gside: <Nice to see you back, though. How's the arm?> Thanks, nice to be back, and good to see you're still around. The arm's pretty good...it's still attached! ;) Better not be *my* men! ;) What's your GPA, if you mind me asking? <The problem is, to find someone willing, I'd have to find someone with low standards> I think you're too hard on yourself. Just mingle with the mushroom people some more. <It's a very rapidly growing function.> Explains why the cookies went so quickly. <So, should I leave the gun?> Yes. <I'm still on 98.> Amen, though I get a few hisses for that ;)

Mooncat: <Toshiba Satellite> Pretty good choice, pretty sturdy (compared to the beautiful-yet-too-pretty vaios). <Pancakes. Hashbrowns> Together?! <and see if he wants to introduce his new wife to the joys of a Pancake House.> Ooh. Pancakes. And syrup...LOTS of maple syrup. Which begs the question...anyone a large fan of maple sugar? You know...the stuff that makes your teeth rot by looking at it? ;) Or maybe this instead begs the question--what to *do* with all that maple syrup? ;)

Bwhahahahahaa. I'm hyper today. Seven-hour car ride from Philly. Continuing...

Tribun: <Has someone of you tried to make a Gargoyles comic?> I've never tried, since I wouldn't know where to pick up the storyarc (whether to include the previous marvel comics or not). But you can send stuff pertaining to it at fluff_astrid@yahoo.com if you'd like.

Imzadi: <Welcome back!> Thank you. <I'm on top! woohoo> So is that a point? <It WORKS, which is more than I can say for your busted ass monitor and USB> Whoa. In any case, monitor = replaced by viewsonic, and it was my PS2 port, busted by my own hands and not of any PC manufacturer's fault ;) <Most of us prefer eating out anyway...> Or eating on...nevermind. <Woohoo! I gotta get me some of that> Just don't try and injure yourself first ;) <Good god I'm wired. I think I've slept for 14 hours out of the last 24> Good LORD. And you haven't even finished the semester...imagine the first day at home! <Click the link to see it. It's not perfect...but its definitely "me".> Very nice, indeed. <That's what this country needs: more unskilled labor having eight children each> Watch it...you're talking about my grandparents there ;) <All for the goal of making life more like porn!> Thus my interest in comics in the first place ;)

Spacebabie: <Hey we missed you> Thanks, missed ya too. <Already done> Whoa. Florida's got the luck of the Irish. <Same here, but once in a while I like to whip up something yummy> Bwahahahaha! Whipped cream on top of everything, yeah! (still hyper...) Oh, no WAY! Not unless I get some Tasuki fan action! ;)

Jannie: <marvelous to see you back again! *happy feet dance* I hope that you are going to be able to post frequently again :)> Thanks, good to be back...and I hope to post much more frequently, yes ;)

Ravyn: <Sorry to say it, but the internship search didn't go well at all. I applied to every major automotive engineering company I could think of, and no one showed any interest *at all*, even though some of them were hiring friends of mine and all that.> Aww, I'm sorry. It's a tight market and interns go first, unless they're unpaid, sadly...there's always next year, and you'll grab something great! Just earn up this summer :) That's what I'm doing :)

All right, off for tonight. Adios
Niamhgold
Sunday, May 12, 2002 10:51:25 PM
IP: 12.110.135.159

Spacebabie - You missed capitalizing the "no" in knowledge.

This is getting ridiculous. I'm being harassed at my church. How? I have the fun job of locking the building up. Apparantly, somebody has been making my job . . . interesting when I get around to going through a certain area of the church by making me spend more time in that area.

Green Baron - <This has been our prank on the CR> If I was going to pull a prank on the CR, . . .

I stayed up late last night to . . . get my kitchen cabinets & table thoroughly cleaned.
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, May 12, 2002 09:12:14 PM
IP: 204.94.193.13

***** TGS CR MEMBER INFORMATION *****

The location of the Gathering 2002 was corrected on all CR member profiles, the submission form, and the statistics page for Gatherings attended. Thanks to Spacebabie for the notice! :)

>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/profiles/
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/gatherings.html
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/guidelines.html

***** END TGS CR MEMBER INFORMATION *****
Lady Mystic
Head Admin of TGS CR Information
Sunday, May 12, 2002 04:29:24 PM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Greetings, CR. First, I have a confession and so does Daphne :)

For the last week, we decided to have soem fun. We would convince the CR we were a couple by flirting or appearing to flirt. Some may have guessed, but we are not a couple, more like partners in crime :)

It was funny to see the reactions, but we were hoping to really have some fun :)

This has been our prank on the CR :)

Kaioto> You are an assett to your faith. I wish I could be so eloquent. I still don't excuse the actaul guilty parties, but I am gald to know that the problems have decreased. Even Bill O'Reilly who has criticized Cardinals Law and Egan (he is also a bit of a chidlren's rights fanatic) has warned of witchhunts and guilt by association. Of course, when Matthew Sheppard was killed, some crackpots blamed the Pope. I imagine some people like Jack Chick are blaming the Catholic Church for the Israel/Palestine conflict and the WTC bombing.

BTW, I do have one suspicious thought. Ted Kennedy won't criticize Cardinal Law, Ted Kennedy has not been formally excommunicated and he owes Cardinal Law :)

Jennifer Anderson> ::big hugs:: (and no, I'm not flirting with her)

Cherry Blossom> Well, I leave Europe August 8, 2003. For me to attend G03 has to be a little after that date ::hint, hint::

DPH> Well, maybe it would be if Daphne and I are a couple. Heather and I are good friends and while more than simply friedns, not an exclusive couple. Beisdes, lobg term plans will wait for us to finsih our education..her HS and nursing, my law school...then a decision will be more evident.

<<.> Ideally, wouldn't the most objective way to measure intelligence be to read a person's mind/thought?>> Maybe, but how can we do that without spending more than $25.00 a person?

Imzadi> <<Enough with the sap. I've met programmers that were more subtle flirts than you are.>> That was the whole point :D

Metaldemon> That's my kitty for you :)

Jan> You don't support a full scale invasion fo France? I do :) The Netherlands would be fun to invade too. Their military is unionized so if we declared war on them, tehy'd just go on strike :)

Of course, we woudl need to double our soldeirs in USAREUR to take over Europe, but it isn't impossible. Of course, I'm joking, except I want to invade France :)

We could send in fighter pilots and bomb teh country with soap, deodarant, talcum powder, delousing material, and shampoo. We could also get electric razors for the women to shave their armpits in the summer :)

<<oh sure… you Catholics just HAVE to put a saint to everything, huh? ;)>> Why not :)

Gunjack> First of all, Greg B. is not a conservative, he's a virulent nationalist, SJ is merely out to argue and he'd go to the left of Jesse Jackson if he coudl stir up enough shit here. You can still be conservative and disagree with ultra nationalism.

As for Lain, I don't think she changed you, and i'm hoping you're shifting her a bit rightward, but I do think she ahs you whipped, with a special Canadian whip made in Newfoundland, and I think you nejoy it, too ;)

<<"cutting the throats of women and children">> OK, I over-reacted when I said that. I was upset my country got attacked and people were celebrating. I was being more of an American than a Catholic that day.

<<godless liberal hippy>> I'd argue with godless and liberal (unless you quit the GOP and now support Al Sharpton's bid for President), but I figured you're becoming a hippie because of all the free love Newfie style :)

SJ> <<I've always enjoyed a good Priests-are-pedophiles joke...but now, since it's been revealed that priests really ARE pedophiles, the joke just becomes too.....I don't know, obvious. I don't like going for the easy jokes.>> Well, the percenatge is still lower for priests than stepfathers and Uncles, and once the media loses interest, youc na strat them up again. Social worker jokes should be good in Florida, and I have always had issues with social workers. To me they thrive on misery more than drug dealers and pimps.

Q What's the difference between a social worker and a kidnapper
A Kidnappers also take adults

DPH> Jesse Jackson probably does beleive in prayer. he always prays before he shakes down a company for race card money :) If Jesse Jackson was alive 600 years ago, he'd make a good De Medici or Borgia.

Imzadi> Hey, you see an article titled Invade France and its written by Ann Coulter (I hope she'd find me cute) and well, you just have to post it :)

Population control and all> Ideally, thos ementally challenged would be heavily supervised so tehy wouldn't be able to reproduce or even get any. That aint reality. Sterilization sounds severe and soem people who are retarded can still function and can provide a good source of cheap labor.

I do have an issue with fathers who are delinquent in supporting their little bastards. I have no porblem with cutting off their gonads if they refuse to take responsibility for their actions,a nd if anyone objects, he can make the child support payments. Plus dead beat dads should be kept in a database accsible to all single women and anyone else needing to beat the crap out of someone.

Jaden> Officers in your bay? Well, why would they be tehre? They're commissioned officers and can use their own place.

Tribun> How closer are you to Hanau?

Spacebabie> I neevr heard about that incident. I am not even privy to most rumors in my own Detachment.

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Hanau
Sunday, May 12, 2002 04:16:11 PM
IP: 62.104.212.91

Sorry, that was meant to be, I wouldn't invite the GOVERNMENT down my pants.
IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Sunday, May 12, 2002 03:46:08 PM
IP: 169.226.230.45

This reminds me of Josh and his Dad
1. LETTER TO DAD

Dear Dad,

$chool i$ really great. I am making lot$ of friend$ and $tudying very
hard. With all my $tuff, I $imply can`t think of anything I need, $o
if you would like, you can ju$t $end me a card, a$ I would love to
hear from you.

Love,

Your $on.

And The Reply

Dear Son,

I kNOw that astroNOmy, ecoNOmics, and oceaNOgraphy are eNOugh to keep
even an hoNOr student busy. Do NOt forget that the pursuit of
knowledge is a NOble task, and you can never study eNOugh.

Love,

Dad

The boy got his grades. He received a WF in two classes one of them was English you know our Dad and I are giving him hell for it.
Hope you all have a great mother’s day to those who are mothers.
I cooked my mom breakfast.

Kaito<<<The state I live in is such a political and media cesspool it makes me ill>>HUG I’m sorry that your state is like that. Now you know why I hate Unerliberals sooo much…I’m not partically fond of Uberconservatives wither.

SJ<<<Big deal. They said it something like 200 times on South Park. And on the series "The Shield" on fx, >>>But Comedy central and F/X are cable channals. Er is on NBC a network channal, part of the big three(four if you count Fox) and the oldest channal.

Gside<<<It won't exactly be a war with those>>>Tru if they were on your side then it will be too easy to beat the living snot out of the opposing side.<<<You sure about the second one?>>>You can consider me horny, and you can consider me slutty but I’m not a pervert.

Josh<<<It was a lot of fun.>>>I thought you hated beer.<<<And they have the best job in the world: they destroy computers for a living!>>>So there is a possible job for my brother<<<Somehow, I don't think she'll breed with you.>>>How would you know?<<<Democrats.>>>LOL<<<Too bad.>>> Hey I’m still horny and slightly slutty.

Patrick<<>>Right it I’ll read it.

Jan<<<He then wrote a check for $5,000 for some jewelry and a check for a sports car. Both checks bounced like a rubber ball and now Germany is kicking him out of their country.>>>Did the Baron know about this guy?

Impfac<<<It’s got far more meaning to me now, though, of course. I can’t remember when my parents read me the book…>>>Your parents read Christine to you?

Jaden>>>I also got that Wanker.

Lady Mystic>>>I noticed something in the profiles for in the area of gatherings it still has 2002 Virginia beach. Shouldn’t it be Williamsburg Virginia?

Warpmind<<<And I'm the most adorable blad guy you know?>>>Yup.<<<Um... is that a typo for blad,>>>Typo for bald?<<>>Damn Skippy.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Sunday, May 12, 2002 02:16:00 PM
IP: 67.25.49.96

Impfac> <<It does seem if you can forcibly sterilize people>> only in extreme cases and only when it's been proven that the person is mentally incapcitated and/or it causes a health risk to the mom and/or the child. There are people in this world that would not have the slightest idea of how they got pregnant, what it even means to be pregnant nor much less the capability of raising a child. In most cases, these individuals have been sexually abused either by rape or being taken advantage of.
Also, some MR's do not have the ability to say no to sexual activities... they just like to do it, so therefore they do it quite frequently. They do not understand the consequences, pregnancy, STD, etc. It becomes necessary to prevent pregnancies with these people.
MR people do not have the same thought process as "normal" people. What you and I consider to be natural instincts or consequences, they do not have that ability.
There is a wide range of mental retardation and each person must be evaluated on an individual basis.
As I said to Patrick - it's not a *government* decision, it's a family/guardianship/court/medical decision. There are no federal, state, or local laws that require mentally retarded people to have sterilization procedures or abortions.

DPH> I do not like my tax dollars going towards paying people to sit on their arses and draw welfare checks. I believe that there should be a work program. We have many government sponsored jobs that can be done by those who are on welfare. No one should be allowed to draw a check for doing nothing. At one time, it was discussed that the maximum allowed for welfare paid per child to be 5. (I think that's the number allowed) But, the bleeding hearts said that it wouldn't be fair to child #6. *rolls* We'd be suprised at the number of people who would actually stop having children at #5 if they knew there would be no additional funding for #6.
I'm very much in favor of assistance for working single moms, families that work but don't make enough to pay for child care, expenses, etc. I don't even mind temporary welfare support - but with a limitation of 1 year.... plus the support is actually paid to the utility companies, rent assistance paid directly to the landlord, or in the form of food stamps - to only cover basic essentials. Medical care (within reason) is also a good program. (reviewed case by case for the actual need of medical care)
Birth control should either be mandatory for anyone receiving welfare or at the minimum strongly encouraged. Birth control shots, pills, etc. are already available free of charge for those in need. Welfare is usually not given to childless people.
But unfortunately this isn't going to happen because it would be too much work and would require careful attention. The welfare system is draining the resources of our government and it needs to be totally overhauled and tightened up.

Josh> yes, there are "normal" people who shouldn't be having children either. But, if they are caught neglecting or abusing their children, they can go to jail and the children removed from the home. If a mentally challenged person is caught - they won't go to jail and instead of removing the children from the home, they will send in social workers to teach the parent. But you can't teach them all of the skills necessary to provide a safe environment. I'm not saying that all mentally challenged people should not be allowed to have children - but it needs careful and in depth evaluation before they do.

Warpmind> That article just really burnt my toast when I read it. The attorney who took the case is the typical type that gives all lawyers a bad name.
While reading it I kept thinking, "hello?? You are NOT suppose to be crossing illegally anyway!!" And now they want to sue our government because we didn't provide provisions for them while they were committing an illegal act? How stupid is this??!

My gardens are finally planted!! I beat the rain! Just as I was finishing up the veggie garden, thunder started and there was some sprinkling. Yet another rain storm is due in here today and this evening. We're at the max with flood conditions. =\ They evacuated several areas of the town last week during the last flood.

Happy mom's day to those who are mothers! :)
Jan
Sunday, May 12, 2002 11:41:03 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Tribun - Hmm? No, I haven't canceled Avatar Wars. I'm almost done with the first installment. With good fortune, I'll have it out sometime this week. *crosses fingers* It's a little more difficult for me to script as I now have to consider a larger story focus to deal with. There is a lot of stuff that was "off screen" in the first part of Immortal Blood that I'm bringing out in Avatar Wars. But I don't want to flood the story with too much Fay stuff. It's still Elisa, Fox, and Demona's story, they are my main characters and stars, but there is also going to be some focus on Matt, on Xanatos, on Goliath... and especially Owen. It's about loyalties, and ambitions, and how the two will conflict in the face of certain events. There's a lot of stuff I want to work into this storyline. But I don't want to over complicate things. So I write, and I cut, and I write, and I cut... And I mourn the loss of my original outline and notes and scenes that were destroyed when my computer hard drive crashed last November.

******

Musings...

Well, today I'm moving three more large bookcases upstairs, which means emptying them, taking the contents upstairs, taking the book case upstairs, then refilling them. At the same time merging thos contents with stuff already upstairs... Hundreds and hundreds of video tapes. eep!

I'm looking at all the Babylon 5 eps, and a few other series that I was so deeply into at the time, and wondering if I should just erase it all and track down a DVD set. Xena I know was released in a whole set of tapes, like Highlander was (another series to consider) but then I wonder if it is worth a few thousand dollars for nice neat sets of shows I love, but probably won't re-watch for years if ever. Buffy was so good for so long, but the current season has left me wit a "blah" taste in my mouth. All these little series that I sort of liked, and only got a couple of episodes of, but they didn't last very long... Mission Genesis, Three, Spy Game... Okay, have to keep Spy Game, it was too funny. *^_^* ... The Roar, Cleo 2525/Jack of All Trades, All
Souls... Hmmm... Maybe I should just get some episode guides and buy a DVD burner... Try to get some order in them all.

Maybe when the price of DVD-Rs drop to a more decent level. Definately a plan for the future.

Mmmm... craving breakfast food. Pancakes. Hashbrowns.

Wondering if it'd be worth the time and effort to make it from scratch or to pull myself together enough to seek out a restaurant on a Sunday morning. Well, don't really feel like grating potatoes... Maybe I should call up the ex-boyfriend and see if he wants to introduce his new wife to the joys of a Pancake House. *^_^* Or hit t he Picadilly Breakfast Brunch. Mmm... Picadilly... No pancakes, but it might be worth it if they have the mini fruit tarts that I so adore. Kiwi and strawberry slices, in tiny tartlet format *@_@* mmm!!!

okay, must go in seach of breakfast.

Later
Mooncat
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Sunday, May 12, 2002 11:21:37 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

TOP 10?, #10

DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, May 12, 2002 10:03:39 AM
IP: 204.94.193.73

Fall to your knnes, here enters the "Master of Disaster"....
..and I'm the 9th too.....!

Madame Destine>Got my e-mail? I only ask, because several of my e-mail had benn once shredderd, to never be seen again. And my questions and realizations are really important (at least for myself). I hope you continue the storyline.

Mooncat>Yeahr, yours and Madame Destines Storys are totally different. By the way, you mentioned "The Avatar wars", the continuation of "Imortal blood". Is this story canceled?

Has someone of you tried to make a Gargoyles comic? Its more work then I thought, but I make progress. Right now I'm wrking on page 18. If someone want, I send the first four pages an the title cove via e-mail. I translate it into English then too.

Only four more days, then the 2nd episode of Star Wars will start in all the cinemas around the world. Luckily, in Gйrmany ,the film will be shown serveral hours before it starts in the USA. I've waited three years for this movie. By the way, the are some things, that are interesting.
First of all, I think that the German title sonds better than the English one. "Attack of the clones" became in German "Angriff der Klon-Krieger". Then, the correct translation for "the force" would be "die Kraft". But they use the word "die Macht". Translate it back and lat yourself surprise.......

That all for now........
Tribun - [joachim_henkel@gmx.net]
Luebeck, SH, Germany
Sunday, May 12, 2002 09:54:01 AM
IP: 62.214.32.193

*yawning and rubbing eyes*

Eighth!

*goes back to bed*
Jan
Sunday, May 12, 2002 07:39:36 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

*Warpmind strides in, grinning maniacally.*
Hmmm... Seventh, to boot? My Warhammer 40K game went well. Unfortunately, the Tyranid Domain kinda got hosed here and there (as in on all of our border worlds) by those Marines and Eldar... I blame the unlucky mission scenarios; Ambushes are not the thing for 'Nids, on either side... :/

Archwolf: Eh, dude, I said it was a CAMPAIGN, not a single free-for-all. And Arnold, my Hive Tyrant made swift work of most of those armored vehicles... "But... I had PEOPLE in that one!" "Yeah, yeah, they're canned food now." };)

Jan: You're quite welcome.

Valentine: *Smirk* So you like, eh? But who's Tom Creep?

Spacebabie: Xenamorphs? Naw, but they're somewhat xenophiles, I think... They'll eat anyone. And anything. };) And I'm the most adorable blad guy you know? Um... is that a typo for blad, or should I consult with my vast array of dictionaries? *Chuckle* Me, adorable? You're almost making me blush. Almost. But by all means, don't stop trying. };) And you're not a god or a pervert? *Looks at self* Well, I beg to differ - if you think I'M adorable... };)

DPH: The mentally challenged? No, don't prevent them from ever having kids. The Criminally Insane, however...

Gside: Wigmakers? Dude, Locks Of Love. ;)

Josh: Right. Maybe Picard. And what do you mean, most humans? Humans are the most omnivorous species on the planet. And are you *sure* you want to accuse Mooncat of being human? };) As for Spacebabie, I wouldn't know. It ain't up to me to decide, really...

Jan: They're suing for THAT? Jeesh... Might be better off setting up barbed wire fences along the border, then... At least, that way the US Gov. can't be sued for the lack of water posts. :p
Well, that's about it. Later on, gang. *Scampers off to read his webcomics.*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, May 12, 2002 06:10:14 AM
IP: 193.217.238.120

***** TGS CR INFORMATION UPDATES *****

FINALLY!!! ;)

The 2002 CR archive has been updated to include weeks from April 6th to May 12th for a total of 5 newly added weeks.
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2002/

Unfortunately, the week of 4/6/2002 to 4/13/2002 is incomplete. If you have a complete copy of this week (or any week listed on the following page), please email me at lady dash mystic at usa dot net.
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/missing.html

New TGS CR Member Profile:
Siryn - http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/profiles/siryn.html

Revised TGS CR Member Profiles:
Fire Storm - http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/profiles/fire_storm.html
Lady Mystic - http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/profiles/lady_mystic.html

Shadowrider's CR member profile has been removed upon request.

I have emailed a profile draft to Lynati and am currently awaiting her reply.

Calendars and statistics pages were updated accordingly, including the removal of Shadowrider's profile data.
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/

***** END TGS CR INFORMATION UPDATES *****
Lady Mystic - [<-- TGS CR INFO !!!]
Head Admin of TGS CR Information
Sunday, May 12, 2002 06:06:04 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Fifth!!!!!

woo hoo!

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, May 12, 2002 04:16:41 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

Fourth!!!!
Gavin
Sunday, May 12, 2002 04:12:34 AM
IP: 161.45.210.171

And three shall be the number of the counting. And the number of the counting shall be three.

Today I got a start on my last homework assignments of the semester, and also did some food shopping. And watched a buttload of TV.

Patrick: <<someone in charge over there would ever explain why they happen so frequently>>: That implies that there IS someone in charge over there. I think they just run around like chickens with their heads cut off. When the server goes down, its up to some random fan to call the NOC-monkeys and tell them to reboot it. <<over half of the fandom wasn't dependent on that one server.>>: None of us have enough cash to host a mirror, sadly. <<even though the pop-ups and banner ads make me want to beat my monitor with a baseball bat>>: You mean your browser doesn't turn those off? <>: I'd read that! <<I don't want my tax dollars used to take care of someone else's disabled kid." Well, then you probably won't want to see them used to fund a massive Federal Bureau of Vasectomies & Tubal Ligation, either>>: Well, given the choice I choose the latter. Of course, we don't have that choice.

Jan: <<They just don’t have the reasoning and comprehension skills that are required for the safe raising of a child>>: There are lots of groups that fit this description. <<AR = Anal Retentive>>: Oh, I already passed the graduate course in that. <<what I’m furious about>>: LOL! Yes, lets feed illegal immigrants. That's what this country needs: more unskilled labor having eight children each.

DPH: <<Are you implying all the sides would sign a treaty not to use nuclear weapons on each other?>>: No, but that doesn't mean that all sides would use them. India and pakistan would probably vaporize each other, but there'd be plenty of people left. <<What percentage of mentally challenged people are that way because of genetics?>>: Most. Being sexually molested rarely makes someone mentally challenged. Screwed up, yes. But not challenged.

Gside: <<Well, getting a house is good news>>: Not that good.

Impfac: ,>: All for the goal of making life more like porn! <<destroying a part no sane person could ever conceivably damage (read: expensive, dealer only, rare>>: That little clip that holds the visor in place, wasn't it? <<happened to catch a nasty little case of the AIDS from some guy down in Texas>>: I wasn't aware there was an un-nasty case of AIDS. In any case, my condolences.

Jaden: <<You can't get lost if you don't know where you're going>>: Only if you don't have a navigation computer.

Windows© 98(n) - 32-bit extensions and graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
-Unknown

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Sunday, May 12, 2002 04:05:24 AM
IP: 64.173.21.117

SECOND!
Fire Storm and Lady Mystic
Sunday, May 12, 2002 03:01:07 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

FIRST!
IMPFAC
Sunday, May 12, 2002 02:39:32 AM
IP: 169.226.230.45