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Josh> *rubs temples* ok, whatever. You're right, I'm wrong. I have no idea of what I'm talking about. I don't know what I've taught, trained, and educated myself with for the past 13 years, I don't have children who are ADD, I am not ADD, my children were not in AP classes in elementary... whatever. fine. I'm not going to argue about any of it.

so long, adios, g'bye, see ya' later, alligator... I'm tired of this shit.
Jan
Sunday, June 2, 2002 09:16:18 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Well, today was interesting. I woke up at 9 to drive up to San Jose. Took me just over 5 hours, with a stop for lunch, so I made good time and didn't see a single CHP. The drive itself was uneventful.

The new place is actually really nice. It's tiny (I think my mother's closet is larger than this "studio"), but its immaculate, as is the rest of the building. It's not the nicest area in the Bay Area, but I have parking in a garage under the building and I should be safe.

I've got a TV (no cable yet), microwave, fridge, and my own bathroom. I couldn't ask for more in a studio apartment...except for maybe 100 extra square feet ;-) The manager is really nice and GE is just a few blocks away. $tarbuck$, safeway, rediculously expensive gas, and many fast food places are within a mile or two. I think its a good place for what I'm paying.

The major downside is that outgoing local calls cost money, so I'm using a calling card to get internet access. At least, I think that's a good idea. I have to do some more calculations on that. But at least I can dial out. When I get my time in the "internet room" (which has DSL) tomorrow, I'll try to upload some pictures of the place.

It'll have to do for the next 10 weeks. After that...back to DSL. In more ways than one.

This ritalin/ADD/discipline track touches several nerves with me...the details are in the individual replies.

Sexual Harassment Panda: LOL!

Warpmind: <<A simple minefield at the back door ought to suffice>>: I don't want to know about mines at your backdoor. <<Really, what interest do *I* have in Mac software?>>: well hey if you can't be bothered to find out then I can't be bothered to try it 8-) <<had one removed to treat syphilis>>: I wasn't aware removing a nut was a cure for syph.

Jan: <<One significant difference is that a child who is bored will whizz thru their work and then become a nuisance - a child with ADD will not complete their work and will fidget, disrupt those around him, be a nuisance, stare into space, play with things in their desk or will constantly be up and down out of their seat, etc>>: I'm sorry, but this is flat out wrong. I went to high school for 4 long years. I know people with ADD as well as normal people that exhibit both tendencies, and its not balanced in anyway such that you can say "ADD kids to one thing and non-ADD kids do another". <<A very large percentage of untreated ADD/ADHD students go on to be high school dropouts, suicidal (due to low self-esteem and frustration), criminals, or low functioning adults>>: Where on earth does this come from? I think that if anything, this is because some idiot doctor defined ADD/ADHD to be "a condition resulting in kids not being straight A students". This is, if nothing else, a result of parents crying "my kid is smart too! Why isn't he in the top math class?" News flash, parents: YOUR KIDS ARE STUPID. If they were smart, they'd be in the top math class. "They have ADD" is some brilliant excuse that a doctor came up with to sell drugs. There are kids with problems. But those problems aren't ADD. <<as a result, the teacher can also spend more of her time actually _teaching_>>: Now this I agree with. If the drugs work, use them. Better that than having some nutcase disrupting the class 8-) <<Tourettes was the "fad" disability>>: HAHAHAHA. I can get a doctor's note to get out of PE because I curse too much! YES! Now, what if you're one of those people that curses in bed... <<slinging around the word "murder" for the shock value>>: Personally, I don't think murder has "shock value". Killing someone is murder. If it shocks someone to hear that word, or any other word, probably a good time to go back to high school english class ;-) <<complete with computers, phones, cable TV and rec room equipment>>: Didn't you hear?! These are "basic human rights" for prisoners! <<where did you end up deciding to live for your new job?>>: Here 8-) <<Will you be staying with the girls you mentioned once before?>>: I wish. They probably know other girls. But no. <<parents just want their kids to be mini drug addicts>>: I know some parents... <<including one with a highly respected doctor>>: I'd get respect if I sold drugs too 8-) <>: I don't blame you. As much as I'd like to meet a few new people...I don't think its a good idea. That...and GE won't pay me to be there 8-) <<I'm glad that Michael was with me so that he could remind me who some of the characters are and what role they play later in the Trilogy>>: I wound up doing the same thing for my family. I hate that. <>: That *IS* what it means. It's supposed to be a college level course. And in a real college level physics course (and I'm not talking about the stupid crap that humanities majors take), you get twice as much work in half the time compared to a high school course. Let me tell you, I was prepared for college engineering because of hard AP courses, and that's why I took them. <<Both of my children were in the AP while in elementary>>: No, you're confused. AP classes are only offered to junior high and high school students. Your kids may have been on an accelerated track in elementary school (as I was), but its not the official "Advanced Placement" status.

Lady Amalthea: <<being this thin is not as fun as it sounds>>: There are 4.5 million los angeles females who would disagree with you. <<Because of how much I weigh I am very sensitive to the cold>>: So THAT's why I'm a wuss...thanks!

Kathy: <<If parents are reluctant to get their kids on the bandwagon then they can find themselves hauled before Child and Protective Services>>: Only in America would they call you a bad parent for NOT giving your kids drugs. <<If I had kids they'd all be homeschooled>>: Then you know what wouldn't be taught? SOCIAL SKILLS. <<that suggests that a significant percentage of my peer group has been exposed to some agent that affected their ability to bear normal children>>: That *is* possible. There was a lot of freaky stuff going around during your parent's generation and yours.

Patrick: <<today's generation of educators today have less tolerance for the so-called "hyper" children than those of the past, and find it easier to medicate them down rather than teach up and engage their interests>>: Ooh here's an interesting idea: with the abolishment of corporal punishment, teachers need a new way to keep kids in line? <<cause and effect can easily be misinterpretted in these kind of cases, and bam... another child is diagnosised with ADD>>: It's a good thing. Under those conditions you mentioned, I could have easily been diagnosed with ADD. And I've taken ADD medication for fun...the result? I became hyper-active in a way that puts The Great Cornholio to shame. <<now I probably sound like I'm bragging>>: Not to me...but then you and I are in the same boat. <<not thumped back down>>: Private schools are making this increasingly common, as rich parents with stupid children insist that they're kids are just as smart as everyone elses. If they don't get into the honors track, the parents stop donating. What are the schools to do? Oh, I know...lets put 6 kids that can't handle AP physics in class with Josh and his engineer-in-training friends! Bitter? Not at all. <<who actually QUIT and took a job at private schools>>: Hope he doesn't encounter what I did. <<Settle for mediocrity>>: I don't think they're goals are that lofty.

DPH: <<Financially I can't afford it>>: How else would you be unable to afford it in a way that made sense? <<If it was because of external forces>>: The fact that he was under 18, signed it under duress, and didn't have a parent co-sign makes it invalid in many ways. <<as opposed to cooking milk into cheese>>: I'd worry about if you did that. <>: Do you think it could be because that group committs 3 times as many of those crimes?

Impfac: <<MacDonalds welcomed me back VERY eagerly>>; Is that a good thing? <<as feminism has taught us, aside from boys being natural born rapists, there is no difference between the sexes>>: LOL. <<society is so focused on the performance of girls and the unique ‘disadvantages’ they face>>: I have to be honest: I don't find many things are funnier than gay guys mocking feminism. They're just so good at it.

Metaldemon: <<Tv actually leads to paranoia about the outside world>>: Either that or jewish parents 8-) <<The justice system may be incompetent, but they are not that stupid>>: You must have our system confused with one that works. <<It's actually cheaper to keep them alive than to put them to death>>: I'm curious how this works. And if you say "appeals" I'm coming over there with a sledge to knock some sense into you.

Gside: <<Which is usually generalized to mean that whoever is writing it isn't the holder of the copyright>>: Couldn't it just be licensed? <<Any chance of sharing your notes?>>: For the right price, I'll do almost anything. <<

I'd like to say that everything is okay between me and that f*cking little slut.
-Eminem, about Christina Aguilera

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
San Jose, CA, US of A
Sunday, June 2, 2002 02:09:02 AM
IP: 207.214.211.96

Imzadi> <<As opposed to?>>: The new shellfish dessert created by an Iron Chef.
<>: Which is usually generalized to mean that whoever is writing it isn't the holder of the copyright.
<<that would be a neat trick>>: I thought so. Any chance of sharing your notes? I geel like summoning a horde of zombies.
<>: You don't know what the female looked like.

Warpmind> <<there's nothing you can say about my singing voice that I haven't already emphasized much better>>: True. Every time you open your mouth, you emphasize it. Cookie?

Patrick> <>: Ever read Harrison Bergeron? Good short story about that taken to extremes.
<<The educational standard I was schooled under was "Strive for excellence.">>: Vitae Dice.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, June 2, 2002 12:51:41 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

sorry for yet another post from me today...

Patrick> I agree about the downslide of education. It's not the fault of the teachers - as you've seen first hand by what your former teacher has said and done. It goes back to this attitude that failing a student is too damaging to their self-esteem and all of that other bullhockey.
I was too quick in saying that a bored child is a discipline problem. I didn't expand on it.
Most schools have the AP program these days and as long as they are conducted in the manner in which they are suppose to, it's very beneficial for the students. Unfortunately I have seen some of the classes where they think AP means to give twice as much work in half as much time. =\
Both of my children were in the AP while in elementary and Michael continued on with them in high school.
I am ADD and my children are ADD. Excluding myself, at least my kids are good examples that being ADD doesn't mean you're stupid. ;)
<<since every discussion always comes down to who has the most experience>> I'm not the one who started that... someone else did. Sorry, but I guess I feel the need to qualify myself these days. You weren't bragging, you were giving background info.

*shuts up* I won't post again today/tonight. ;)
Jan
Saturday, June 1, 2002 10:52:38 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

DPH> Thanks for reading. My whole point was that a Christian is not determined by his/her actions, but by his/her faith in Christ.

Jan> Sorry, I don't get to watch much TV. I have neither the time nor the stomach to watch it. According to my communications class, Tv actually leads to paranoia about the outside world.

impfac> Charles Manson will never be released. The justice system may be incompetent, but they are not that stupid.

As far as the security of prisons. The people they hire get crap for salary, and most of them don't want to be there. So of course the quality is gonna be low. Plus, and this is the magic of conservative medias, you make it sound like it happens every hour when it's not as much as you make it sound.

Imzadi> It's actually cheaper to keep them alive than to put them to death.

The state needs to be subject to its own law lest it be a rogue state. How can you not care about innocent people put to death, when so many of your own people were put to death?

And as side note, I fully see the grope, but I saw something fishing happening.

And to get news of our perfect justice system, go to the moratorium web-site, where can read about the 100th man found innocent of a crime he didn't commit and was released from death row. http://www.moratorium.org

I'm done for the night. I'm bogged and tired.
metaldemon - [<-----innocent people put to death.]
Saturday, June 1, 2002 10:36:28 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Inserting my buck seventy-two into the ADD/Ritalin discussion, I'll only submit this ...

I have a second cousin who was placed on Ritalin pretty much on a public school teacher's request. He abandoned the drug himself because he felt it turning him too much into a zombie.
While I have no doubt that there are ADD patients that legitimately *need* Ritalin, and for those cases the drug is necessary ... unfortunately both in this town of mine through parents *and* through observation while I was still in college entertaining my masturbatory pipe dream of being a teacher, I've seen too many cases where an overwhelmed teacher who had no training in group management and little training in dealing with children have simply requested children be placed on the drug because it would reduce *their* stress level, never considering once that maybe they don't either *need* Ritalin or for that matter even have ADD. (Present company in the character of Jan exempted to this, of course ... I've seen you in action with groups and I *know* you can deal with it. :)
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, June 1, 2002 10:36:00 PM
IP: 216.234.123.30

Jan > "How many 2nd graders have you observed in a classroom? How many elementary students have you taught? I'm not trying to be snippy or anything, but from what experience do you have this knowledge?"

I knew I should have qualified my comments right off the bat even at the risk of sounding self-centered, since every discussion always comes down to who has the most experience. How many elementary school students have I taught? None. But I have 12 years of experience under my belt in the public schools, and for the better part of the first half of that period I myself was once one of those "hyper" children who was understimulated by the normal pace and "pestered" the teachers for more challenging fare. Luckily, the schools system I attended (way back in the dark ages of the in the 1980s, no less) offered accelerated programs in the elementary schools and considered it worthwhile to provide the extra stimulus. In elementary school, I was put into a special class that met twice a week, with about a dozen other students. In middle school, I was taking the algebra when it was "normal" not to learn it until the first year of high school. And in high school, nearly all my coursework was AP (Advanced Placement). Senior year, I was in classes of over 20 each taking college level calculus and physics.

Of course, now I probably sound like I'm bragging, which is not what I set out to do... and which is why I didn't go into all of this in the first place. I'm just attempting to explain that even though I've never been a teacher, I have been a student who's had to deal with some of these issues personally.

As to the argument that an underchallenged child just needs more "discipline," I say "hogwash." A child who shows signs of above-average ability should be lifted UP by the system, not thumped back down. And I don't care what the current psychobabble says about how gifted programs are damaging to the self esteem of the non-gifted children and other such nonsense. I follow the news just like kathy, and I still keep in touch with a few of my past teachers, and more and more the things I hear just appall me. The public schools I once attended have changed drastically, and I have spoken to one teacher I had (he taught the AP Calculus course at my HS) who actually QUIT and took a job at private schools rather than be a part of the dumbing down of public education (his sentiments, not mine). It saddens me. The educational standard I was schooled under was "Strive for excellence." As we begin the 21st century, it seems to have changed to "Settle for mediocrity."

JMHO. And I'm not trying to be snippy, either.

And for anyone not interested in this discussion... apologies for taking up so much space with this longwinded post. :P
Patrick Toman
Saturday, June 1, 2002 10:24:58 PM
IP: 67.38.249.6

ADD> Same here, taken dexedrine too. I'm not loving it, because no one has taught the study habits I'll need to get off of it. I'm surprised so many in the CR also been diagnosised with ADHD. Anyone else?
Taleweaver - [loremaster27@hotmail.com]
Saturday, June 1, 2002 09:24:18 PM
IP: 24.205.125.15

oh look, Patrick contradicted me yet again.

Patrick> How many 2nd graders have you observed in a classroom? How many elementary students have you taught? I'm not trying to be snippy or anything, but from what experience do you have this knowledge?
It's not very often that a bored student reacts as you suggest. IF a student acts the way you describe and is not ADD, then he/she needs some discipline. And no, they are not automatically labeled and diagnoised as ADD. There is a process of observations over an extended period of time given (independently) by a teacher, diagnostician, and their parent. Each has to fill out paperwork and then this is given to a DOCTOR. Teachers do NOT prescribe medication or officially label any student with a medical condition.
I have personally seen a remarkable change in students once they have been given the proper medication. Their self-esteem comes back up, their grades improve, they get along better with their peers, they are not in trouble all the time, etc. ADD usually starts showing up at around the 3rd grade because that's when more independent skills are taught.
Anyway, you make it sound as if a student is diagnosed easily and without much consideration - you're wrong. It's a careful process with checks and double checking and from different sources with the doctor having the final say.

DPH> I'm not going to the Gathering either. I don't have the stomach or patience for a few people who are planning on attending. It's best for me to just stay away this time.
Homemade pizza sounds good. I made the english muffin pizzas the other night - very tasty.

I finally went to see Star Wars today. Decent movie. I'm glad that Michael was with me so that he could remind me who some of the characters are and what role they play later in the Trilogy. heh

"I've learned that you cannot make someone love you. All you can do is stalk them and hope they panic and give in."

Jan
Saturday, June 1, 2002 09:10:14 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Well, MacDonalds welcomed me back VERY eagerly. I’ve already got hours tomorrow. I’m not so eager to go back, but with the timing, it’s my only choice for the interim. Dominique is rusting outside quietly, expectantly...

Warpmind> Solid red, or red and white, the colors GM didn’t make them in that year? ;-) Besides, if it’s in mint condition, it can’t be MY Plymouth Fury ^_^

ADD> I’m ADD, but Ritalin just wasn’t powerful enough, so I switched to Dexedrine. Good stuff. And yes, stimulants are a powerful appetite suppressant-it is 8 PM and I still have not had breakfast, although I’m really starting to get hungry now. But for the most part, I think a lot of teachers and doctors are getting normal children medicated for simply being hyper little balls of energy. Boys tend to be “ADD” at as much as 7X the rate of girls-but, as feminism has taught us, aside from boys being natural born rapists, there is no difference between the sexes. Clearly, it is SOCIETY causes boys to be hyper, right? Please.

Interesting, society is so focused on the performance of girls and the unique ‘disadvantages’ they face, while boys are massively underperforming in schools, and have far more behavioral and educational problems. The plight of boys is kept carefully under wraps by the feminists. This isn’t what I want for my son.

Later,

Imperial Fascism Lite, half the fat, all the oppression. TM
IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Saturday, June 1, 2002 08:02:44 PM
IP: 66.66.203.129

There's no way I can go to the Gathering this year. Financially I can't afford it.

GXB - <Let's see, with that line you made enemies of myself, Aaron, Mara, Lynati, Hudson, and lots of other people. At G2002 we will just have to strike at you first. Sorry, but it's our survival> You've taken those statements completely out of context. The order strictly applies to those trying to spy on me at my home. From what I'm told and personal experience online, you have one distinguishable feature - being dominant.

GXB - <So, in sixth grade I signed one of those D.A.R.E. papers saying I'd never do drugs, and a couple years later I
tried Marijuana.> Why did you sign the papers originally? If it was because of external forces, you shouldn't have signed it in the first place.

Ok, today I made two homemade pizzas. Ok, let's be honest: the crusts and the pizza sauce was bought. While I'm being honest, I confess to buying the cheese as opposed to cooking milk into cheese.

Metaldemon - <Then none who claim to be Christian are Christian since all Christians violate God's laws.> Ok, let me give you a hint from the inside: true Christianity isn't about a list of things to do and things not to do. That train of thought is legalism. As long as the death penalty is given out in a fair and consistent manner (same type of crime gets the same punishment regardless of race or gender), I have no problems. But if it comes out that a certain group is 3 (or more) times likely to receive the death penalty for the same type of crime than another group, then I think there needs to be an investigation to determine *why* the dispairty exists. <In fact, a criminal who was in a case that would put him to death saw his very own state-appointed attorney asleep
while in court. Fair?> Sorry, but that attorney should have been given a contempt of court hearing and disbarred for failing to give full attention to a client.

Everything from above here was composed on mostly composed on Friday.

Warpmind - < Naw; a moat is going a bit far. A simple minefield at the back door ought to suffice.> Hey, why not both? I'll have a minefield surround the moat on both sides.

Patrick - <Some will, while just as many others will forsake assignments they deem as boring and engage in other pursuits.> Hmm. That happenned to me a couple of times in class.

Warpmind - Is it possible to order small guided missilies equiped to deliver tranquilizer darts? I'm thinking about having the installed within an automated defense system to guard against my dad waking me up prematurely.
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, June 1, 2002 07:08:41 PM
IP: 204.94.193.21

kathy > Re: "bees knees" - I stand corrected. :)

"I question the rampant diagnosis of ADD/AHDD because that suggests that a significant percentage of my peer group has been exposed to some agent that affected their ability to bear normal children. That in and of itself is downright scary."

Or it could also imply today's generation of educators today have less tolerance for the so-called "hyper" children than those of the past, and find it easier to medicate them down rather than teach up and engage their interests. Either way, I agree... it's scary... and I know when I have kids I'm going to have some hard decisions to make about how they will be schooled.

I think it's worth mentioning, too, that it's not always the case that a child who is being understimulated will rush through the work first and then become restless. Some will, while just as many others will forsake assignments they deem as boring and engage in other pursuits. Unfortunately, cause and effect can easily be misinterpretted in these kind of cases, and bam... another child is diagnosised with ADD.

And such is life, it seems, in the "quick fix" era we now live in. :/
Patrick Toman
Saturday, June 1, 2002 04:03:40 PM
IP: 67.38.249.6

Kathy> I am not disagreeing that there are many cases of the wrong diagnoises of ADD and Ritalin. However, for those who actually need it, it is a good medication for them. Some people cannot tolerate Ritalin in their system and there are other alternatives. For the mildly effected ADD children, behavioral modifications works wonders. Before any child is placed on Ritalin or any of this type of medication, behavioral modifications should be tried.
The reason for all of the high numbers of children on Ritalin is because it was recently (about 10 years or so ago) discovered that ADD could be treated with it. There is not a significant increase in the number of people with ADD... they just didn't know how to treat it. The other alternative medication (I have forgotten it's name) was originally for bedwetting problems with children and they discovered that it also worked with ADD problems.

I know that there are problems with Ritalin abuse. I just get a little warpy when people automatically assume that Ritalin is this evil medication and all children who take it are zombies and the teachers and parents just want their kids to be mini drug addicts.
I can show you just as many websites and information praising Ritalin. I mainly speak from personal experience since both of my children were on Ritalin and I was in the classroom for over 13 years and have seen countless cases of children taking Ritalin. I did extensive research on Ritalin before allowing my children to take it. I have also attended numerous training classes (including one with a highly respected doctor)and have done continuing educational courses on ADD/ADHD.

Lady Amalthea > yes, one of the side effects of Ritalin is loss of apetite. However, that does not effect your weight now that you are no longer taking the medication. As I said earlier, Ritalin flushes your system in 4 hours. Not everyone has that side effect, though. My daughter gained weight while on Ritalin.

The reason Ritalin is so "popular" among adults is because it was at one time used as a diet pill.

Ritalin sold for $2.50 a pill when my kids were in high school.

Kathy, I concede to agree to disagree on the aspects of Ritalin with you :)
Jan
Saturday, June 1, 2002 03:58:40 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Still on medication here. Not really in the mood for either a big debate or pulling a bunch of research so here goes.

Ritalin. No, I don't have kids on it. Don't have any children at all unless of course you count the four footed kind. But I do on occasion pick up and read a newspaper and quite frankly what I read apalls me. In some classrooms 25% of kids are lining up every day to be medicated.

If parents are reluctant to get their kids on the bandwagon then they can find themselves hauled before Child and Protective Services. And I don't know about how that is where you live, but in Georgia that's one hell of a nightmare.

Ritalin is an amphetimine analog. It can cause brain damage just like all those other drugs kids are supposed to "Just Say No" to. It does have effects on people who don't have ADD (and yes there are a small percentage of real cases, I'm not disputing the disorder entirely). Ritalin is becoming one of the most popular drug of abuse among ADULTS. In fact there was a school nurse here or maybe it was a principal, I don't recall anymore, who was busted for skimming students presecriptions and selling the pills.

All in all, I question the wholesale prescribing of Ritalin.

I question the need to dumbdown, excuse me, overfocus, entire classrooms of children who aren't being adequately stimulated. And please don't get me started on what's acutally being taught. If I had kids they'd all be homeschooled.

I question the rampant diagnosis of ADD/AHDD because that suggests that a significant percentage of my peer group has been exposed to some agent that affected their ability to bear normal children. That in and of itself is downright scary.

So in summary, Jan, we disagree on the use of Ritalin.

Oh, and the link is just one of many listing the the downsides of Ritalin. Believe me, I had many, many more to chose from.

Bees Knees > Actually, Patrick, I checked. It's an American expression, not Cockney rhyming slang that dates back to 1923 and the era of flappers.

And of course bees have knees, that's where they keep their pollen sacs. :)

kathy
Saturday, June 1, 2002 02:04:29 PM
IP: 66.32.121.172

ON RITALIN:

I myself have ADHD and I know that ritalin is sometimes not the best option. It actually makes some children lose their appetite. I know this because I was one of those children. I am now 21 years old and I only weigh 95 pounds, my ideal weight is 110. I do not consinder this to be a small side affect. Let me tell you that being this thin is not as fun as it sounds. Because of how much I weigh I am very sensitive to the cold. To put it in plain english ritalin sucks!!
Lady Amalthea
San Diego, C A, USA
Saturday, June 1, 2002 01:08:30 PM
IP: 66.27.85.63

Kathy> <<Then they should be on Ritalin. (Because by god, we don't want them to notice they're being taught garbage or admit that we're boring them out of their minds.) >> ummmm... ok. *blinks*
Do you know of any incident where this is the case? Do you have children who have taken Ritalin? For one thing, Ritalin does not cause the effects that you are referring to. Yes, if one is over-medicated it can make them drowsy and appear to feel "zoned out". If that's the case, then the dosage needs to be re-adjusted.
There is a major difference between a child being bored in the classroom and a child who is ADD/ADHD. Their behaviors are not the same. One significant difference is that a child who is bored will whizz thru their work and then become a nuisance - a child with ADD will not complete their work and will fidget, disrupt those around him, be a nuisance, stare into space, play with things in their desk or will constantly be up and down out of their seat, etc. There are also physcological effects of having untreated ADD/ADHD. A very large percentage of untreated ADD/ADHD students go on to be high school dropouts, suicidal (due to low self-esteem and frustration), criminals, or low functioning adults.
The advantages of taking Ritalin far out weigh the reasons not to.
Does it help the teacher for an ADD/ADHD student to take Ritalin? of course it does! And as a result, the teacher can also spend more of her time actually _teaching_ instead of having to deal with the behaviors for most of the day - what a novel idea, huh? ;) I have *never* met a teacher who wants the students drugged - but they do want them (the students) to have the assistance needed to enable the student to learn.
I will agree that Ritalin is over prescribed. One of the reasons is because the doctors are quick to assume that a child has ADD - but that is based on what the parents tell him. He doesn't have the opportunity to see the child in a controlled environment such as a classroom. ADD is not something that can be tested with a blood test or any other type of medical testing.... it's based soley on observation and knowing what to look for and deduce in what is or is not a behavior of ADD.
There was a time when Tourettes was the "fad" disability in our area of Houston. We, as teachers, were flabbergasted when a student would come back with the medication and diagnois of "tourettes". But, it was quickly discovered that the medication wasn't doing any good, the behaviors were not changing and the parents stopped giving their child the medicine. Some of the same behaviors overlap for the two disabilities and with the public outcry for "no more Ritalin" doctors were not so quick to prescribe Ritalin. The thing about Ritalin, though.. it flushes the system in 4 hours and if you are not ADD/ADHD it will not effect you (other than giving you some minor side effects). It's like taking an asprin for seizures... it won't work.
ack.. I didn't mean to get off on a long to-do about Ritalin... sorry. O.o

Metaldemon> *chuckles* naw, I'm not going to debate you over the death penalty. I'm like Impfac, though - prove your case. I know of people who have been wrongly imprisoned, but I don't know of any who have been wrongly put to death. (I'm referring to recent times and not back in the early 1900's or later)
I do think that you are slinging around the word "murder" for the shock value, though.
"Life-term" is a joke and an insult to society. Rarely is someone placed in prison for their entire life with no chance of parole. You've been watching too many TV shows.
I don't like my tax dollars paying millions just to keep their worthless asses alive... complete with computers, phones, cable TV and rec room equipment.
Public defenders: if one fell asleep during the trial - the judge was at fault. Also, the defendent had the right to request another trial with a different PD.
It doesn't matter if the accused was poor or not - if they did the crime, they are guilty. Period. Guilty is guilty no matter how much money you don't or do have. Yes, some people get away with their crimes because they can afford better lawyers - but that doesn't make them less guilty - that just makes them free from punishment. They are still guilty.
I was on a jury that gave the death penalty and I have not lost one second of sleep because of it. The 21 year old girl was gang raped and then murdered. So no, I have no qualms about voting guilty and for the death penalty.

Josh> where did you end up deciding to live for your new job? If you've said, I've missed it. Will you be staying with the girls you mentioned once before?
Good luck on your new "adventure" :)

*scurries out in search of a new shoe store I was told about*
Jan
Saturday, June 1, 2002 10:35:49 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

*Warpmind strides in, raising what appears to be a uniquely designed rifle at DC, and pulls the trigger, several bolts of APFSDS reducing DC to a small puddle of goop as the backblow yanks the door off its hinges.*
Grrr... Several days in a row I've been unable to post... :/ But at least I've had the time to work on the design for the Render, my APFSDS rifle. }:) (One rule applies: due to the measures taken to prevent recoil injuries to the user, there is a significant air blast behind it. Not the kind of gun to be used in a tight formation...)

Kaioto: Good to see you here once in a while, man. Yeah, Sterling Silver is the title of a Christine Morgan fanfic... What I had in mind, though, is that the Sterling Academy is Illuminati-run. ;)

DPH: Naw; a moat is going a bit far. A simple minefield at the back door ought to suffice.

Spacebabie: Lazy. Riiiight. I'm *sure* that has everything to do with why we don't see the lower halves of Brooklyn or Angela. Suuuuure. };)

Gside: Of course you get a cookie. Heck, there's nothing you can say about my singing voice that I haven't already emphasized much better, anyway. };)

Josh: True, Age of Consent in Norway is at present 16. (Interestingly enough, the legal age for smoking or drinking beer/wine is 18, as is driving, and stronger alcoholic beverages is prohibited until age 20... Silly legislation.) As for Geneforge, I don't know. There's a Windows version and a Mac version I know of, but I don't know more about it than that. (Really, what interest do *I* have in Mac software?) For more info straight from the source, click my link.

Christine: Hey, something amusing just occured over here... There's a guy selling a mint-condition red Plymouth Fury. Interested? }:) (Granted, if it's still available, it's EXPENSIVE... due to Norwegian taxation etc., and the meter's in kilometers/hour rather than mph...)

Leo: Theories suggest that Hitler had one removed to treat syphilis. (As for Göring having two, but very small, Himmler being similar and Goebbels having none, I cannot say...)

Greg B: No, DPH hasn't made enemies of all you guys. You're hardly *indistinguishable*, are you? ;)

That's about it. But for a really addictive shareware RPG, click my name. Geneforge is GOOD! :)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, June 1, 2002 08:28:59 AM
IP: 193.217.215.120

IMPFAC> I'm a saaad panda.
Sexual Harassment Panda
Saturday, June 1, 2002 06:34:08 AM
IP: 172.153.172.100

Last day in Los Angeles :-( Tomorrow morning I drive up to San Jose for 10 weeks of engineering intern-dom. Spent today packing everything up and brushing up on the last few errands. I hope I've got everything. I'll feel rather stupid if I don't.

replies

Kathy: <<Can you feel the love in here>>: Um, no. <<Then they should be on Ritalin>>: LOL. <<or admit that we're boring them out of their minds>>: Some kids genuinely have problems. On the other hand, no one should get medication just because they can't stay awake in history class. <>: You and me both. <<perhaps y'all need to reevaluate the story you're trying to tell and simplify>>: It's too late. They've created such a huge universe that they can't possible answer all the questions they've created, or even some of them, with the time they've been given. And now they're gonna add NEW bad guys.

Metaldemon: <<If one innocent person has been put to death, the state is guilty of murder>>: Fine. So the state is guilty of murder. Get over it. <<How does a life sentence sound in protecting the public?>>: It sounds like a tax I have to pay to keep them alive. <<Get rid of marijuana laws>>: I'm all in favor of that. <<You'd be surprised at the surprising lowered numbers>>: It still doesn't justify the fact that I have to pay to keep them there.

Spacebabie: <<we got pounded last night>>: I bet you did. <<Talk about easy money>>: You have no idea. <<Five foot six inches>>: Then yes, 100 lbs would be sick skinny. <<When can you get over here?>>: Never. <<Ice cream doesn’t cleanse me out like not right shellfish does>>: I didn't need that info. <<They have grown since then>>: So you've told me. You're not impressing me, though. <<Nobody asked you>>: Actually, they did. It was just quietly.

Jessie: <>: I'm sure the billionaires at Disney value your opinion.

Niamhgold: <<picking up a second job to save for next summer>>: Smart girl. Crazy, but smart. <<Do you guys think it's better to be a twenty year old, mistaken for a sixteen year old, or a sixteen year-old mistaken for over 21?>>: The second. The first one gets me carded. <<the "gain more weight" rant>>: They want more fatasses. <>: You'd be cold. <<Does this furniture need to provide a laying position, or will standing positions suffice, as well?>>: Standing positions will work. Depending on the physical compatibility. <>: Point. <<Ask it>>: As soon as I get it back from Berkeley, I will. <<if I'll have a hot date>>: You will. <<How can you take the quiz if you're not female or not gay?>>: That's what makes it so funny. <<happy as a clam in the mud at high water>>: As opposed to? <<we need carpeting on our playgrounds>>: Foam pads. <>: Well, you're a wuss. <<Fourth night in a row...I'm going to watch the fireworks>>: I wish I had something interesting to do.

Todd: <<One of the rules of fanfiction is that you can't write it for profit>>: Really? I've never heard that rule. I thought it was fanfiction if it was fiction written by a fan. <<do bees even have knees?>>: Depends on how you define knees, but yes.

IMPFAC: <>: HAHAHAHAHA. <<Name one. Give me a name, and where he was tried>>: Now where is the fun in that? It's much more practical for hippies to just say there are flaws than to find them. <<I’ve never seen a corpse kill anyone>>: Don't you watch "Night of the Living Dead"? <<not compassion for the innocent, anyway>>: As I learned on denis Miller tonight, our right to not be killed in a horrible way is secondary to a prisoner's right to cable tv 8-) <<there is no report of him ever having intercourse>>: I wonder if he was impotent.

Patrick: <<And now I shall sit back with you and wait for an encore of the drubbing and politically correct backlash this same comparison ellicited last September>>: Somehow, I don't think its coming.

Greg X: <<if you admit that New Jersey sucks, Kevin Smith aside>>: That's like admitting that LA is smoggy: Der. <<If you compare Buffy to Faith, Buffy looks like an ape>>: I think I'd have to disagree. Then again, I want to bang both. <<They want more money>>: Greedy bastards. Hopefully they go under and get bought out. <<Josh Cordova. Josh Cordova. No, it doesn't roll off your tongue.>>: Neither do any of the other names. <>: But you loved matrix, right? <<in sixth grade I signed one of those D.A.R.E. papers saying I'd never do drugs, and a couple years later I tried Marijuana>>: Several hundred times. <<The world would be a very sad place if we died>>: No, just more moral. <<he'll treat us worse, cause he thinks we'll let him slide more. We'll have to prove him wrong>>: Actually I won't have any comments, because i won't be going to the one this year. And you guys would let me slide on more stuff. But I would bug you guys in AIM, not the CR. <>: Proof that your power is misappropriated. <<Crossed it out early on when I figured out people would say "Okey dokey Loki">>: Good call. Parents who give their kid a name that lends itself to mockery should be shot. <<it's not our fault that we're better than them>>: Spoken like a true californian. <<They should show it in third grade class rooms>>: No. <<Then why do you?>>: Because he can't resist a fight. <<can you make your eyes blaze red also?>>: Then you'll marry her, won't you? <<They only view it as a disappointment because it wasn;t a huge cashcow>>: Like everything else. <<Josh (and those who know he wasn't a Jew) no one has a problem saying that he was born a Jew>>: I think that's because Jew is a blood thing. Cannot be debated. Either he was or he wasn't, but it doesn't really matter. <<You going to Gathering?>>: You planning to hit on her? <<Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late>>: That's from south park.

Gside: <<You give out enough, you should be willing to take a few back>>: True. And I can. <<the complete annotations to the Necronomicon>>: that would be a neat trick. <<but still, my situation could be improved.>>: You can only go up from where you are.

Gunjack: <<1 GROPE, at the female's request.>>: I don't think I believe that.

Time to crash. Need to be up early to drive 400 miles.

If you don't get it right the first time, reload.
-2cooltech.com

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Encino, CA, US of A
Saturday, June 1, 2002 03:37:13 AM
IP: 206.170.217.28

Oyyyyyyy.... up late, much anime ingested... and we AREN'T GOING HOME!

So me and the Skinny man are here at Akon, right?
I, of course, am my normal suit self. Skinny Man was planning on dressing as Vash, but a lack of red coatage left him as Master Roshi, from the Dragonball series.

The official count, at the moment, stands as follows.
120 picture request
2 Autographs
1 GROPE, at the female's request.

I think the power is going to his head. Dallas may never be the same.

On another note.... Arron, Revel, Lyn, and Mara... WHERE THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS!? We've been wanderin' around all day looking for ya with MD, but no luck. Anyway, if Y'all see Roshi, then the suit that looks kinda wasted is me.

PEACE!
Gunjack "Second Fiddle" Valentine
Saturday, June 1, 2002 02:36:38 AM
IP: 12.65.216.127

Imzadi> <>: You give out enough, you should be willing to take a few back.
<<Then what have I been writing?!>>: Apparently the complete annotations to the Necronomicon, with comparisons to the Necrowombicon.

Spacebabie> <>: Yes, but still, my situation could be improved.
<<The Hockey team or the Jersey Devil?>>: I was talking about the big ugly thing in the Pine Barrens.

Niamhgold> <<depends which list>>: The list you didn't want to be on.
<<Mine would include a pit of quicksand. Wrong turn!>>: Would this be a deadly pit or a pit to take you somewhere else?
<<Does this furniture need to provide a laying position, or will standing positions suffice, as well?>>: Some like it standing, but the position is mostly up to the furniture you use.
<<we need carpeting on our playgrounds>>: Nah, a layer of sheep.

Greg> <>: There are parts of it that do, but there are many that don't.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, June 1, 2002 01:06:56 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

As I mentioned I booked my room for the con, and booked my train tickets. My train is schedualed to arrive on Friday at 9:45 am at the Williamsburg train station. So, if anyone out there is willing to pick me up at the station, it will be much appreciated.

GSIDE> <<Yeah, yeah. But you've got to admit that we own the water around it and all the island below sea level>> I will if you admit that New Jersey sucks, Kevin Smith aside ;)

JOSH> <<Sorry, but razor cuts and burn marks don't do it for me.>> I like Goth chicks, but none that go that far. What can I say, pale dark haired girls in black are sexy. If you compare Buffy to Faith, Buffy looks like an ape. <<If there was I wouldn't be trying to hard to get out of there.>> See, you proved my point. <<What the hell is wrong with your cable company?>> They want more money. <<Sadly, religions are tax exempt. One of the few things that is that really shouldn't be>> I know, the way I see it, being taxed is the admission price to get into politics. <<Then why aren't we?>> Because *I* said! <<As long as its not Josh Cordova, its cool.>> Josh Cordova. Josh Cordova. No, it doesn't roll off your tongue.

GB> <<Plus that end was great. Granted, Keanu Reeves's accent started to get really annoying after about 20 minutes,>> I hate him. He was the one thing wrong with "Bram Stoker's Dracula" <<but I'm amazed he can actually act.>> As am I. <<Of course, hands down, Al Pacino is the starring role>> He always is.

DPH> <<Ok, I'll have to give an order to have all people wearing black and having indistinguishable features to be killed on site.>> Let's see, with that line you made enemies of myself, Aaron, Mara, Lynati, Hudson, and lots of other people. At G2002 we will just have to strike at you first. Sorry, but it's our survival ;) <<What about all of those people who signed "True Love Waits" cards?>> So, in sixth grade I signed one of those D.A.R.E. papers saying I'd never do drugs, and a couple years later I tried Marijuana.

AARON> <<If you're pretty, sure. If you look like me, it was as easy as blinking. Easier, in fact.>> Was that way for me to. <<No. Big as it was, it didn't hit the limit Gore put in after Traveler broke the room. Doug hit that every post. And then he'd hit it again as "Kit." Which makes me wonder exactly how much of the archive, percentage-wise, is Doug's>> I'm going to guess and say 86%. <<As opposed to having us killed elsewhere? ;)>> DPH wants us dead. We can't stand for that. The world would be a very sad place if we died. <<I'm sure you'll show us the same warmth and support you've given Jen and Siryn. ;)>> Nah, he'll treat us worse, cause he thinks we'll let him slide more. We'll have to prove him wrong. <<Because we're not a democracy>> Democracy sucks... if you have the power. Currently, I have no desire to allow the CR denizens to take away my power over them. <<What's wrong with Loki Harris Cordova?>> Funny enough, Loki was on my list of potential names for my spawn. Crossed it out early on when I figured out people would say "Okey dokey Loki". I still think it's a good name, but I'm settling on Damien. <<No, no. God made the Heaven and Earth, but the Devil made Texas.>> What about New York? I'm still trying to figure out why non-New Yorkers hate New York. it's not our fault that we're better than them. << should point out that sadonecrobestiality is specifically banned in the revised CR guidelines.>> For that matter, so is the Judeo-Christian God. There are four gods in this CR (five if you count Mr. Hat, who posted with me once) and he's not one of them. <<Sorry dude, the dates we've worked out right now are June 27-29.>> Which reminds me...

Vash, if you're lurking, the dates for Gathering 2003 are June 27-29. Feel free to update GNC with that info.

AARON (again)> <<Yep. It's home to a "candy factory" which many believe to be the base for Israel's nuclear program.>> That's beautiful. So beautiful. <<Todd, Todd, Todd. Now that you've seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail, I think it's time to check out the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness trilogy.>> If we get him to our con, we really need to expose him to a lot more pop culture. Broaden his horizons. With things we like of course. <<I'm not giving up my right to watch A Clockwork Orange just because you're a crappy parent.>> Amen. Amen. But you know, A Clockwork Orange is a beautiful, educational movie. They should show it in third grade class rooms.

METALDEMON> <<Abstinance doesn't work?! Who fed you that lie?>> I did! <<(love of enemies, mercy, generosity, forgiveness)>> That's all crap anyway. I don't love my enemies. I think we should legalize brutal troture just for them.

IMPFAC> <<Haven’t been around in a long time, and don’t particularly plan to come back.>> Then why do you? <<You guys... *shakes head*>> We hate you too.

GUNJACK> <<Personally, I'd take the Nazis>> See, as a Jew, I don't have the luxery to make that choice.

SPACEBABIE> <> Yeah, can you make your eyes blaze red also? <<I’m glad..killing is so messy>> I'll do it then. <<Except when I do my weekly soul cleansing>> Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

SILVERBOLT> <<As far as I can gather Disney hated that show and they think it was a mistake.>> Pure bullshit. They only view it as a disappointment because it wasn;t a huge cashcow.

Hmm, I see long rants on why Hitler is not a Christian, but aside from Josh (and those who know he wasn't a Jew) no one has a problem saying that he was born a Jew.

NIAMHGOLD> <<Did you hit on them anyways? ;)>> Hell no. They were some of the ugliest people I have ever seen. You going to Gathering?

And now I leave you all with this special message.

"Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late."

And to bash the right-wingers as well, I leave you with this actual George W. Bush quote.

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
-George W. Bush. Saginaw, Michigan, September 29, 2000.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:11:08 AM
IP: 216.179.1.108

Todd > The phrase "bees knees" is one of a few surviving pieces of the rhyming slang that was popular in the 1920s. It's rather like someone today giving a trendy compliment like "You da bomb!"

kathy > Amen on the comments about the younger generation. More and more I realize how lucky I was to have been born just soon enough to get out of high school and adolescence before all the insanity really started kicking in.

"I still have my whip. ;)" -- She still uses it, too... good thing, otherwise I wouldn't get half as much writing done as I should. ;)
Spacebabie > "Bin Laden is the Muslim version of Hitler. Real evil such as him must be wiped out." -- Amen. By any means necessary and with extreme prejudice, too. And now I shall sit back with you and wait for an encore of the drubbing and politically correct backlash this same comparison ellicited last September. :P

On a lighter note... I've finally gotten my tickets to Virginia for the Gathering 2002. If anyone else is arriving at the Richmond airport on Thursday evening and would like to catch a ride with me, I'm renting a car and should be leaving there around 9 PM. I've already got one friend arriving on the flight with me, but I should have space in the back seat for two more. E-mail me for details if interested.
Patrick Toman - [puck@artchicks.org]
Friday, May 31, 2002 10:51:37 PM
IP: 67.38.241.3

In my mind I'm goin' to Carolina ...
Coyote the Bando - [Go Red Wings!!]
Algonac, Michigan
Friday, May 31, 2002 10:27:42 PM
IP: 216.234.124.141

Ugh, I got suspended from my job for sexual harassment. I have to say, the obese forty year old who complained was REALLY diluting herself. And no, I was NOT harassing her-I NEVER hit on women at my job, for this reason. I’ve noticed: Jerks drive Chryslers.

Metal Demon<<<Innocent people have, in fact, been put to death,>>> Name one. Give me a name, and where he was tried. Show me the case from a RELIABLE, IMPARTIAL source (ie: www.findlaw.com) and maybe I’ll rethink it.

<<<How does a life sentence sound in protecting the public? The criminal is locked away for good, away from society>>> That’s a laugh. Ted Bundy murdered several people while “safely locked away.” Ever hear of escape? And they harm their fellow prisoners, and those holding them. Remember the seven people that escaped from Texas not long ago and murdered a police officer? <<<A life sentence protects society from the criminal just as the death penalty does. >>> I’ve never seen a corpse kill anyone. Murderer’s in prison reoffended, and those given “life sentences” are often let out after a certain number of years. Why do you think Manson is up for parol all the time? A life sentence DOES NOT MEAN LIFE IN PRISON. That is not safe, and it isn’t compassionate-not compassion for the innocent, anyway...

Hitler and women> He was the most beloved and powerful man in Germany, yet there is not record of a string of mistresses. Also, there is no report of him ever having intercourse, and Eva Braun complained about just this to her friends in private.

IMPFAC - [ingsoc]
Friday, May 31, 2002 10:13:36 PM
IP: 66.66.203.129

JESSIE - No, we don't get paid for it. One of the rules of fanfiction is that you can't write it for profit.

KATHY - By the way, how did "the bee's knees" become a compliment? (For that matter, do bees even have knees?)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, May 31, 2002 07:06:42 PM
IP: 63.208.44.62

**Niamhgold enters**

A lot of work this week, though none today (spent that, instead, picking up a second job to save for next summer ;)). At my main job, however, been doing the usual Flash-Photoshop-print media-business meeting stuff. Fun, except for the latter. But the good thing is, this last print project I did (generic biz cards) was something my boss/client loved on first trial. So, no redos for me! :) Additionally, have been touching up my paintigs for this year's gathering. I won't be attending, but look out for my lame-o stuff ;)

Do you guys think it's better to be a twenty year old, mistaken for a sixteen year old, or a sixteen year-old mistaken for over 21?

Went to the doctors today; regular physical. Except for this elbow tendinitis, the "gain more weight" rant, and a missing piece of my brain (nah, just kidding ;)), I'm doing well enough to pass for living. And, darn, I wanted to be the walking dead! ;)

I need to get in here more often:

Gside: <Well, then you'll probably be glad to hear that you're off the list> depends which list. <And everyone else, too. Maybe I could get Roger to design mine> Mine would include a pit of quicksand. Wrong turn! ;) <fourth (fifth?) Marx Brother was trying to destroy the world?> Fourth, and no, that's only been my brother. <The four poster bed is a perennial favorite. But any two or so pieces of heavy furniture will suffice.> Does this furniture need to provide a laying position, or will standing positions suffice, as well?

Greg: Did you hit on them anyways? ;) <After I ring her up, she tells me to bag it quickly because she doesn't want her husband to catch her buying chocolate> Wow, I love chocolate...but that's an addiction ;) Maybe there's a Jenny Craig anonymous...

Imzadi: Ask it if I'll turn purple over the summer. Or, if I'll have a hot date. <Thanks! I'm glad I made it alive> And hyper ;) <Must be frustrating> Used to be. <Actually, it can> You're right...it can hurt other people. <For a good laugh, read the things they suggest women do to men. Or take the quiz> How can you take the quiz if you're not female or not gay? ;) I need to kill more people on my drives home, as opposed to scarring my car. Bwahahahahahaha! I'm certain they won't care. They're after the underpants gnomes. <I've heard this expression many times. Where the HFIL does it come from?> Happy as a clam: Originally, the phrase went "happy as a clam in the mud at high water," poem by Wordsworth. Some sappy American poem where he also said things like "wandered lonely as a cloud." ;)

Christine: <Swing, slip, whoosh, wham into the woodchips. I reversed course at once and went with her to the nurse's office, then spent the rest of the day waiting around on Group Health> Whoa, ouch, best of healing to her. You know, for all the "safety" reasons for which they lay down those woodchips, they don't seem to prevent injury. Never kept me from breaking my arm, or several kids from breaking their legs...we need carpeting on our playgrounds. ;)

Sevarius: I'd say that's true for a lot of the population, though. <and I usually score with the lonely goth chick who's into cutting herself.> What's up with people cutting themselves? I know it's a mental instability, but still, I cringe at a paper cut and faint at the sight of blood. I just can't fathom drawing blood for anything other than a medical purpose ;) <The bisexual girlfriend joke was a rib on Doug> Hehe.

Majorly severe thunderstorms tonight. Fourth night in a row...I'm going to watch the fireworks ;)
Adios!
Niamhgold
Friday, May 31, 2002 06:57:21 PM
IP: 12.110.135.120

Silverbolt> Well I think it was stupid for disney to put Gargoyles on the air if they didn't even like the series. (Don't get me wrong I want to be an animtor for disney someday) :P

These new gargoyle episodes you guys are putting out are good ideas but do the staff members on this website get paid for their work or just do this for the fun?
Jessie - [Bronxs18@aol.com]
Bronx, NY, USA
Friday, May 31, 2002 04:16:51 PM
IP: 152.163.195.188

Metaldemon > You said it, not me. Most flavors of Christianity start with the premise that people are fundementally flawed and don't enter a state of grace until after their actions are judged. And some flavors believe that it doesn't matter what you do as long as you are one of the predestined. Whatever.

So really, it's all about the journey isn't it? You try and do right by your fellow human beings and hope for the best. The rest is all window dressing. As to what this has to do with Hitler... Guy didn't do right by anybody. That seems kind of obvious. It doesn't really matter what was spewing from his mouth as he signed orders for genocide, does it?

And it must be the lingering effects of the cold medication I'm on because otherwise I wouldn't get into this.

Todd > You know I think you're the bees knees, but stop apologizing for other peoples actions. We've had this discussion. I still have my whip. ;)

Christine > Harry Potter deleted scenes. Instead of doing something comprehensible they took the Easter Egg approach. Follow this link http://dvdeastereggs.com/showEgg.php?eggid=689&grabEggs=h
or click my name and be prepared to take notes.
kathy
Friday, May 31, 2002 12:29:33 PM
IP: 66.32.113.153

Holy crap we got pounded last night. I think it was a depression or at least a weak tropical storm. Lots of rain, wind, thunder, hail. Some of the roofs in the neighborhood got torn off.
It was freaky. No major power outages, just a blip..surprisingly.

I have a soar on my bottom lip/ I should get some balm. Can’t decide between candy kisses or lip smackers.

Hitler. .He was an a*hole. He was an extremist who warped Christianity into his own personal use.

Bin Laden is the Muslim version of Hitler

Real evil such as him must be wiped out.

Joanne<<<taking the piss out off all us fan's>>>Naw they are just pissing off the fans.<<<use to think this site was deadly>>>Now it’s just dead.

Gside<<<Not Wiigi?>>>Wiggy as in I got the Wiggins.<<<Better…>>>I knew youd like that.<<<No, there's a Devil in Jersey, but we did this ourselves>>>The Hockey team or the Jersey Devil?

Josh<<>>Talk about easy money<<<Hi. Wiggy.>>>See above.<<<You're already there.>>>No, I think it might be another week.<<<Spidergirl?>>>No just working fics, art, websites and crap like that.<<<your grandmother exceptionally stupid?>>>No just technologically stupid.<<<How tall are you?>>> Five foot six inches<<<Sold. When do I start?>>>When can you get over here?<<<Ice cream will do just fine.>>>Ice cream doesn’t cleanse me out like not right shellfish does.<<<You're already a little loopy, too.>>>But I wanna be really loopy.<<<Thank you for that information.>>>They have grown since then.<<<a) that's my line and b) I'm not on the TGS staff and c) stupid questions deserve stupid answers.>>>Nobody asked you.

Christine>>>Don’t worry my dad has Codeine BigEvilGrin

Patrick<<<I've repeatedly seen given to anyone who dares ask about the status of the project in this comment room. "Never. Go away." >>>Only one little smart ass who typed those words.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Friday, May 31, 2002 11:27:29 AM
IP: 67.24.18.127

doggit, I forgot.

<<actions speak louder than words>>

Then none who claim to be Christian are Christian since all Christians violate God's laws.
metaldemon
Friday, May 31, 2002 09:35:41 AM
IP: 129.120.35.51

impfac> <<Those put to death in America received a fair trial, and are killed as humanely as possible.>>

Well if that isn't the biggest overstatement I've heard....

Innocent people have, in fact, been put to death, only to be seen innocent after their "fair" execution when DNA testing was used in an incestigation; further, people have been put to death on shaky evidence, meaning, "Well. I did see a tall white man, and he did have some sort of thing in his hand. I think it might have been him; I'm sure if my glasses were on at the time....."

And 90% of people on death row usually are poor people who cannot afford an attorney and must use a state-appointed attorney. In fact, a criminal who was in a case that would put him to death saw his very own state-appointed attorney asleep while in court. Fair? What is your definition of fair?

If one innocent person has been put to death, the state is guilty of murder.

Imzadi> <<...there to prtotect the public?>>

How does a life sentence sound in protecting the public? The criminal is locked away for good, away from society, until he dies of natural causes. But then there's the over-crowding problem, right? Get rid of marijuana laws. You'd be surprised at the surprising lowered numbers. A life sentence protects society from the criminal just as the death penalty does.

And about the cable TV thing: I said I understand the necessity of deprving criminal's of their rights. Read my posts and stop being selective.

I stand in my convinction that the death penalty is the American holocaust.
metaldemon
Friday, May 31, 2002 09:33:14 AM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Lain> You're right - it's not my place to judge. All my comments were essentially hypothetical. _IF_ Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and _IF_ while claiming to be a Christian he started one of the bloodiest wars in human history, and _IF_ over the course of his war he slaughtered roughly 6 million people for the crime of being descendants of Abraham, and _IF_ while he was killing the Jews he also decided to clean up the gypsy, homosexual, and mentally ill populations of not just his country, but several surrounding ones _THEN_, strictly from my reading of the bible and my resultant assessment of Jesus' character I would have to assume that Hitler wasn't really "saved" in the Christian sense - and therefore went to hell. I could, of course, be wrong.

But I'm not. :)

You pretty much got my real point, I suppose.
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Friday, May 31, 2002 08:50:28 AM
IP: 198.215.20.3

KATHY - Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, the problem isn't with the story. Rather, it's with the fact that we haven't had as much free time for getting the stories written and edited as we used to. That's the main reason for the hold-up.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, May 31, 2002 08:45:40 AM
IP: 65.56.171.150

My goodness. Can you feel the love in here....

Hitler and Christianity. Um actions speak louder than words. 'Nuff said.

Children and Childhood. I think as Americans we have no idea what we think childhood should be. On the one hand we delay the assumptions of responsibility for a prolonged period of time. Children should be children. Until they're 25 or in school. Then they should be on Ritalin. (Because by god, we don't want them to notice they're being taught garbage or admit that we're boring them out of their minds.)

On the second hand we market products that a large segment of society thinks are inappropriate for minors and yet contributes to the consumption of them by purchase for said minors (clothing, entertainment products etc.

And finally we smack down on kids for trying to take things on that were perfectly okay for their parents. Driving rights anybody?

It's a wonder you whole lot haven't gone completely nuts (instead of just a small but growing percentage)

There was a time in England that children as young as six were held to be accountable for their actions and subject to capital sentences. Yeah, death for stealing shoes was harsh, but at least you knew where you stood.

I fear for the younger generation. Hell, I fear for society as a whole..

Christine > Sorry about Becca. I hope she mends quickly and with a minimum of trauma.

Harry Potter DVD. I think the deleted scenes are some place on the second disk but I haven't waded through the grand tour yet to find out for sure. I didn't notice anything different when we watched the film last night.

Speaking of films. I finally saw Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. The complete version newly released on DVD. Wow. Intense and creepy.

Also, From Hell. I've got such an appreciation for Robbie Coltrane. I think the man can play anything. Good film. Interesting play on the Jack the Ripper mythology.

And finally, an actual current theatrical release:
About A Boy. A film all about relationships. Dead funny. Very poignent and sweet without being treacly. If you're looking for a change of pace film that doesn't involve CGI, this is it.

TGS > Last year a month or so back, the staff was looking forward to debuting the next season of Timedancer at the LA Gathering. It didn't happen. And the date kept slipping. And is still slipping.

My suggestion is that perhaps y'all need to reevaluate the story you're trying to tell and simplify. Less episodes. Not as complicated an arc. Something. But clearly you need to redefine where you're trying to go or else you'll never get there.

JMHO from someone who's been there.

Cheers.

kathy
Friday, May 31, 2002 08:16:06 AM
IP: 66.32.113.153

IMZADI - Well, by "computer problems", I mean, things along the lines of losing Internet access for various reasons for a couple of months. We've had a lot of that sort of thing happening to a number of our members lately.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, May 31, 2002 08:06:01 AM
IP: 65.56.171.150

More errands, meal with grandparents, etc. Almost done. Two days from now i'll be safe in my new apartment in San Jose with no responsibilities till Monday. Sounds good to me.

I talked with my parents over dinner about the expanding FBI powers. They didn't understand the implications until I reminded them of McCarthy and the Communists. Who was more dangerous? It's scary. I shouldn't have to worry about the FBI snooping around my email. Or on this comment board.

Todd: <<We're working on Season Four, we really are>>: Sure you are. <<Most of us are so snowed under with RL and computer problems>>: I have trouble believing that there are so many computer problems, even in a group of windows machines, that you are prevented from simply emailing word documents back and forth.

Christine: <<get your own codeine>>: Why do that when we have a liberally minded adult in our ranks? <<doesn't allow kids on narcotics>>: How right-wing of them 8-) <<happy as a clam>>: I've heard this expression many times. Where the HFIL does it come from? <<bleeping extra scenes>>: There was cussing in that movie? <<Chrissy>>: Ugh.

Taleweaver: <>>: And here I was, thinking the real problem was flame wars.

Lain: <<have you ever actually READ "mien kampf"?>>: I hear its an interesting read...but you'd never catch me dead reading it. Rather read fiction. And I'm fine judging Hitler by his actions instead of his "scripture" <>: Can we call them bastards instead? <<aaaaactually, he was a catholic. but lets not pick that nit>>: Details, details. <<[do not] kill yourselves>>: It really shatters your credibility when you put words in brackets. <<NOT) trying to draw a comparison between bush and hitler>>: I think you are, you darned hippy! <<they would do better to pray THEY were on *GODS* side>>: Now THAT is brilliant. <<he didnt say love ALL your neighbours, now did he?>>: LOL there's an orgy. <<in the near future>>: The geologic time scale, our deaths are in the near future. Those might be interesting. <<take these birkenstocks... with them you will be truly one with us>>: My cousins are canadian and they aren't hippies. <<am i a crazy-head?>>: Yes, but this has nothing to do with your comment.

Jessie: No.

Silverbolt: <<could u give us at least a clue>>: Why on earth would he do that?

Kaioto: <<To claim a title and then not practice is the epitomy of paying lip-service>>: Well he's not jewish either. <<things that are fundamentally incompatible with an intact version of Christianity>>: As far as I can see, there is not a single religion today that practices an "intact version of christianity". Everyone hates someone. <<makes a show of parading their faith out in front of people to cover up for their degeneracy>>: Normally I'd say that not all left-wingers are degenerates...but I go to Berkeley, where they are. <>: It does. But only 2 get government funding. <<Too much unquestioning forgiveness can be harmful in the real world>>: I think the problem is that it works fine if everyone does it. Categorical imperative, and all that stuff. <<We make a damn fine scape-goat if I do say so myself>>: Maybe, but we sit back knowing that we made the world safe for capitalism. <<it is a lot of fun to put on the facade of rotating the government every 4-8 years and then blame the "ousted" administration for all the past ills too and pretend it is a whole new country, isn't it?>>: Even better is blaming the ills on the current administration that came into power just as the ills started, as if they caused it during the 10 days they've been in power 8-)

Patrick: <<steadily dwindled over the past year along an exponential curve that's now approaching zero>>: You truly are an engineer. <<TGS has been pitching the same excuses for almost a year>>: Somehow, I think they've been using them for longer than that. <<can't even turn out ONE new story every four to six months>>: Apparently its a big deal to have the stories come out every week on Monday at 3-4AM. Why is that? Why can't they just come out as they're ready? <<Never. Go away." What a way to embrace the new fans>>: a) that's my line and b) I'm not on the TGS staff and c) stupid questions deserve stupid answers.

David G: <<didn't love his neighbor>>: Is it adultery if you love your neighbor? <<then they're burning in Hell for all eternity>>: For all that annoys me about this religion...I love the irony of the evil members. <<gas mask) instead>>: Oh, that will be easy to slip through security.

Metaldemon: <<we Americans have this attitude that we are better than other countries>>: Only because we are ;-) <<why is it this country puts so many people to death>>: Because if we don't, they'll do it to someone else. <<what we Americans do to our own prisoners>>: Yes! How dare we give our prisoners cable TV! <>: Great. You're gonna bring the FBI down on us, you realize that. <>: Is there any possibility that its there to protect the public?

Jan: <<Why are we so hell-bent on depriving children of their innocence?>>: I don't think that's it. But on the other hand, its not your business when someone else's kid sees an R-rated movie. People are concerned that you'd be making that decision for them, and that's not right. <<You tell your child not to touch the hot stove, but they do anyway… do you stop telling them to not touch it if they reach for it again?>>: Actually, yes. If a child is stupid enough to touch the hot stove after burning themselves once... Hell, I only needed to be told once. The next time was "remember what happened last time?" and I haven't touched it since.

Gside: <<It's not that hard>>: I think that was a not-so-thinly-veiled insult. <<The chances of that are quite small>>: Satan is my Improbability Drive.

DPH: <<the only person in this CR who has been saying TGS won't come out is . . Imzadi who isn't a member of TGS>>: I'm not?! Then what have I been writing?! <<Why I am bothering trying t o explain this concept to you?>>: You like setting up targets I can mock?

IMPFAC: <<Hitler died a virgin. It is almost certain (to me>>: I have trouble believing that. He had many women. <<I’ve always admired Hitler>>: You are so obviously trying to start a flame war. <<the only way to punish is out of hatred and vengeance, and so we’re obligated to release all prisoners, right? Hehe>>: Somewhere, Kant is rolling over in his grave. <<the death penalty is just like eradicating tens of millions of civilians. Sure. Okay>>: f*cking hippies.

Crash time.

Holy sh*t! Silent Bob's an insturment of god?
-Jay, Dogma

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Encino, CA, US of A
Friday, May 31, 2002 02:29:13 AM
IP: 206.170.217.251

Well, I finally got myself insured. The Buick is now mine. I just got her back from the mechanics today ($600 to just undo what I did), and after I put the hood back on (it was sitting in my back yard) celebrated with a 5 hour 300 mile drive. Of course, the rear brakes froze up, but fortunately released after some coaxing. Being home is more bearable now.

Kaito <<<Stalin and Hitler both believed in the same thing, ultimately, themselves and their own power.>>>

I don’t think that is true. Stalin was motivated singularly by power. Hitler, though, truly believed in the Zionists conspiracy, blood poisoning, the inherent superiority of German blood, etc. Trust the inventor of Hitler Day. I know Nazi philosophy reasonably well (better than most, at least), as well as Hitler’s psychology, although it’s been a while since I was really fixated on the subject. If you understand, than you can really laugh. Nazi philosophy is evil, sure, but it’s silly. Was Hitler Power mad? Sure-but don’t confuse that with disbelief.

Hitler and Jesus> Hitler was not religious. It seemed to play no role in his life. (I think-like I said, long time since I studied closely).

Hitler died a virgin. It is almost certain (to me, at least, and many authors who’ve devoted close study) that he never had intercourse.

I don’t know what it is, but I’ve always admired Hitler, and to a lesser extent all the evil dictators of the world. There’s just something about such power... to be worshiped as a god and do what was believed impossible. Even to build a machine capable of committing the titanic act of the holocaust. I admire that. Then again, I’m capable of admiring ability separate of intent.

And of course, evil is sexy ;-)

Jan> <<<If my memory serves me... (which it doesn't do too much these days) but wasn’’t there more gypsies killed than Jews in the days of Hitler's reign?>>>

I don’t think it does. Most agree 11,000,000 were murdered-6,000,000 of them Jews. It is impossible that more gypsies be murdered. However, you might be right in the sense a greater proportion of the gypsy population was destroyed. I think 1/3 of European Jews were terminated.

Metal Demon> <<<we have our own holocaust>>> I find it offensive to throw around the term holocaust. Those put to death in America received a fair trial, and are killed as humanely as possible. They are only killed because an impartial jury of their peers found them to be too dangerous to ever be released.

It seems by your argument the only way to punish is out of hatred and vengeance, and so we’re obligated to release all prisoners, right? Hehe.

<<<. I find what we Americans do to our own prisoners, which Hitler did too to his own>>>
WHAT??? Yeah, the death penalty is just like eradicating tens of millions of civilians. Sure. Okay.

Hmmm... Nazi death camps vs. carefully balanced diets, elaborate legal protections, weight rooms, cable TV, and even for the condemned ten years of appeal after appeal. I can see how America is just like the Nazi’s, who destroyed 20,000,000 innocent lives.

Christine> My dad is an addiction psychiatrist (MD degree). He’s been treating alcoholics and drug addicts (as well as some simply mentally ill people) for 30 years. You’re probably working with lots of people like him. Poor you.
Impfac - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Friday, May 31, 2002 01:39:06 AM
IP: 66.66.203.129

Kaioto> I like your style :).

You raise good points in the latter three or four paragraphs. I hate governemtns in general; the American one is the one I know most about, so I criticize it the most; if I lived in France, I would be doing the same with the French. I don't like NATO and I don't like the UN. I see myself steadily making my way towards Anarchism (not the punk-rock no rules version of anarchy, but the actual political one [left-libertarianism], however, don't ask me how it works since I need to read more on it before I can formulate an adaquet understanding and reply). Though I don't give my allegiance to the revolution (nor to the man-made establishmet for that matter, both of which I detest).

The rising anti-semitism in France is not linked with the government, but rather with the growing muslim population in the are. I can't blame the American government for the growth of KKK, and recent anti-muslim activites here in Dallas--that's a reaction of the people,not the government. See what I mean?

Which is why I pointed out communism when I mentioned American hate; it specifically came from the government during the Red-scare, particularly McCarthy. To me, at least, it brings a strong parallel with Nazism state-hate: a paranoia was creadted among Americans that communists were everywhere in America and plotting, so that any POTENTIAL or ACTUAL communist (whether actually grounded or not in evidence), must be dealt with in a harsh manner. So many peoples' lives and reputations were ruined by state investigations. Hitler carreid out a similar task against the "undesirables," though, as is known, his victims didn't have the luxury of being ruined.

And my prison critique is rather strong. I won't deny that ;). I understand the necessity of incarceration and the deprivation of rights inherent within, but I firmly believe that the death penalty is nothing short of an American holocaust imbued with hatred and vengence: the two things which Christianity speaks most against.

Anyways, my warped little mind at work. ( and why do i get the feeling that last statement is gonna garner Imzadi a quick laugh ;]).
metaldemon
Friday, May 31, 2002 12:47:47 AM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Lain: Good call on "could care less" vs. "couldn't care less." Of course, I should have given up on logic and the English language going together.

Of course, you don't actually need religion to have a scary right wing party either. The Left Wing party in this country draws plenty of their power base from religious folk as well, and makes a show of parading their faith out in front of people to cover up for their degeneracy.

The State should leave religion alone as a general rule, but religion should influence the State indirectly, based on the values of the people who vote. Or, in the case of our countries, the people who Bother to vote. Voter apathy is a rather disturbing trend, don't you think? Then again, it could be the total lack of inspiring candidates inspiring a sense of hopelessness rather than a lack of caring.

I wish my country had like 4 or 5 distinct political parties rather than just two at a time.

Metaldemon:

Nothing wrong with a reasonable profit made through effort, but exploitation is a line that has to be drawn somewhere. Of course, don't forget to lay a heaping pile of blame on the corrupt governments of countries that INVITE giant global mega-corps from all over the world (not just America) to come and rape their land for kick-backs to the administration.

Hatred, of course, flourishes world-wide on a daily basis, from road-rage to genocide. Hatred in China for a banned religious sect. Hatred in the Middle East. Hatred in America. And in MODERN EUROPE, plenty of good old-fashioned neo-nazism and the like. "Progressive" socialist France with all those lovely synagog burnings as of late. Great roll-model there, I'm sure.

Self-Worship and Self-Esteem are two very different things. One is healthy, the other is depraved. Where is the line drawn between the two? When does a healthy dose of patriotism give way to extreme Nationalism and Imperialism? Wherever it is, we have to watch out that we don't cross the line.

To say that what we do is "no better" is an extreme and a false claim, IMO. We commit some of the same crimes for some of the same motives, because like all societies we suffer from corruption. We don't live in a Utopia, so there are going to be SOME necessary evils.

Jailing criminals is one of them. How harsh of a restriction to someone's rights do you impose on a criminal? Go too far and you are being abusive. Be too lax, and you permit violations to happen again and again, sort of like what happened in the Catholic Church in America. Too much unquestioning forgiveness can be harmful in the real world.

But some of your ramble just trivializes the immense human suffering of the Holocaust. Don't compare gathering up entire populations of law-abiding citizens based on their race, religion, or sexual preference, gassing them, and burning them in incinerators to jailing convicted felons, war criminals, and terrorists.

But I'll agree with you that no society is in any way immunized from the corruptions that so defined Nazi Germany. America has done plenty of horrible things in the name of protecting its own interests. Even if they haven't gone so far, they have been powered by the same sort of evil that drove the Nazis.

There aren't many nations in the world that can claim otherwise, either. America is simply in the spotlight. But try to tell me that NATO allies weren't in on the whole anti-communist bannana Republics plots. A lot of countries let America do the dirty work for them, and live in protected isolation looking down their noses at us for it too. We make a damn fine scape-goat if I do say so myself.

Speaking of scape-goats, it is a lot of fun to put on the facade of rotating the government every 4-8 years and then blame the "ousted" administration for all the past ills too and pretend it is a whole new country, isn't it?

Actually, it isn't half as funny as watching the British Hosue of Commons attempt to function on C-Span, but it comes close.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, May 31, 2002 12:15:20 AM
IP: 66.31.222.137

Oh yea, I finally checked out the book "1984". But more about that tomorrow.
DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, May 30, 2002 11:57:08 PM
IP: 204.94.193.10

Patrick - <What a way to embrace the new fans.> Pardon me, but the only person in this CR who has been saying TGS won't come out is . . Imzadi who isn't a member of TGS.

Imzadi - <<It's about an attitude of service>: To themselves.> No, it's about an attitude of serving others first and yourself last. Some Christians (and false church leaders) don't quite get that concept. Sure I'm selfish to a certain degree, but at the same time, my intent is to help others more than I help myself. Why I am bothering trying t o explain this concept to you?

*Yawns* I have a big day ahead of me tomorrow. I am making a home-made pizza tomorrow and I have to finish the last bits of cleaning my living room and kitchen up pretty soon because I have invited my dad and his wife and my brother and his family over.

It's time to wash the damn kitchen floor pretty soon.
DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, May 30, 2002 11:56:18 PM
IP: 204.94.193.10

Imzadi> <<Oh sure, interpret it to suggest they're smarter than I am>>: It's not that hard.
<>: But still, my point was that it's not on your monitor, though they are both CRTs.
<<Been there, said that>>: You said the first line, I said the second.
<<Then again, maybe he's just pretending to suck up so you'll be quiet>>: The chances of that are quite small.
<<The incoherent one>>: You can actually make out most of the words, depending on how drugged he is, but it's the one where the words have nothing to do with the melody.
<<Aren't we all?>>: Apparently not.
<<Its a beautiful thing to twist an innocent girl to your desires>>: My point.
<<What was that?>>: The rocket-sled experiments that were done to test human acceleration tolerances. One experiment involved a set of 16 accelerometers mounted to different parts of the subject's body. There were two ways each sensor could be glued to its mount, and somebody methodically installed all 16 the wrong way around. Murphy then made the original form of his pronouncement, which the test subject (Major John Paul Stapp) quoted at a news conference a few days later. - Jargon File.
<<Or maybe just no one would want to>>: Same thing.
<<That's just because we didn't REALLY punish them>>: Yeah, maybe if we went for physical instead of economic punishment.
<<That's messed up>>: That's part of the point.

Christine> <<except that we can't figure out how to find the bleeping extra scenes -- anyone else found them yet?>>: They shoved them in where they were supposed to go instead of keeping them separate?
<<Most of my relatives still just call me Chris and my grandparents will probably never break of the Chrissy habit>>: My parents went with the two dimunitive naming scheme, but because of my handwriting, I've also picked up the name Iris Garricle.

Will we ever know who is the mysterious Hitler Fop Wanker?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, May 30, 2002 11:43:25 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

kaioto>> <<However, I will still assert that the police state of Nazi Germany moved to an Atheistic Facist Dictatorship since it always put the state before religion, and asserted that the state was everything>> aand ill still disagree with you ;) but thats okay :)<<Representative governments like America, however, will always have religious values as a factor because a large section of the voting population examine them in candidates>> not necessarily. we have a representative government up here and most of OUR voting population happens to be christian but.. religion is pretty much a non-issue. uh.. except when the scary right wing CRAP party tries to take over and everyone runs for the hills and elects the liberals again.. and again.. and again. but why do we do it? yeah, so chretien is catholic.. but he doesnt go around praying in public and making a big show of it. unlike mr stockwell "im so cool on rollerblades and the world is only 6,000 years old and dinos were mans best friend" day. (seriously, i swear he thinks the flintstones were a documentary.. :P and yes, he was such a dickwad that his entire party ganged up and threw him out). religion isnt something we need in our political system. you dont need to blab on and on about "GOD bless our country" to run an effective political system.
<> or.. the Great White North, eh? here...... take these birkenstocks... with them you will be truly one with us..

and.. on a TOTALLY unrelated topic: <<poeple who wind up running the party in charge of a Police State could care less about religious principles>> what is this "could care less"? ive seen it a few times recently and it seems.. strange to me. shouldnt it be "couldnt" care less instead of "could"? if someone COULD care less.. wouldnt that mean well.. that they could care less? ie, they care more than they might as opposed to "couldnt" care, where its at the lowest of the low? yeah yeah i know its nitpicky but it was bothering me. am i a crazy-head?
lain
Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:56:12 PM
IP: 65.92.91.122

Lain: I think we're going to the same place here. However, I will still assert that the police state of Nazi Germany moved to an Atheistic Facist Dictatorship since it always put the state before religion, and asserted that the state was everything. That one religion in the entire world was tolerated, and then pretty much ignored for everything but propaganda is basically a facade to hide the ugly truth behind the system.

And then there is Stalin, living proof that you don't need a religion as a facade to do everything Hitler did, just don't have your allies bomb America. In fact, you can get away with it too. Icky.

Religion shouldn't be used in politics because politics can damage religion. I don't think you can actually push the corruption of politics any higher by means of religion as opposed to anything else. There is always another excuse men will use. Ultimately, you can dangle religion in front of the masses, but the poeple who wind up running the party in charge of a Police State could care less about religious principles. The State works for itself, and there is no room for any God but the State, for all practical matters.

Religion outside the excessive influence of the state, however, tends to be a useful check against political parties. Of course, so can fraternal societies, labor unions, and a population of independant military warlords. ;-)

Representative governments like America, however, will always have religious values as a factor because a large section of the voting population examine them in candidates. That's the voter's perogative, and the candidate's perogative too in a free society.

I guess if I really didn't want religion in my politics, I could always move to China ...
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, May 30, 2002 09:28:00 PM
IP: 141.154.223.193

If my memory serves me... (which it doesn't do too much these days) but wasn’t there more gypsies killed than Jews in the days of Hitler's reign?

Just because someone claims to be a Christian, or believes that he or she is but yet doesn't practice what Christianity is about - that doesn't make them a Christian. Now, if he claimed to be a Catholic, that might work.. just kidding GB and Kaito! ;)
Anyone who uses Christianity as a form of justification for their inappropriate acts are only fooling themselves. I know that they are not Christians but even more importantly, God knows. They will be judged accordingly before Him... and I'd hate to be in their shoes at that time.

Aaron> I've only been able to have enough time to skim over your post. But, I wanted to make a couple of quick replies…
<<Isn't winning some better then losing all just to keep your convictions intact?>> No, because if you give up your convictions, then what type of person would you really be? Convictions are what we believe in. Are you willing to give up something that you believe in just to make some others happy? There ARE times when compromising is the best solution – but compromising and giving up what you believe in are two separate issues. I may compromise on an issue, but that doesn’t mean that I give up on what I believe in. Are you willing to give up your convictions concerning the Isreal/Palastines? You could work out a solution or compromise, but you would still believe that your opinions were the right ones. If you give up in what you believe in, then what have you really won? Nothing.
Religion makes you who you are, defines your beliefs just like whatever opinion you have about war. No one taught it to you, you just knew and know in your heart or it was just "common sense." Its not law, its not the truth. Its what you believe and that's all. A belief about war. Just like how you view religion as crap.
<<Religion is a means for people to control large groups of their fellow humans by exploiting their fears.>> I don’t worship God out of fear. I know that there are consequences for not following God’s word, but that’s not what I focus on. I focus on the peace, love, joy, and understanding that God brings to me. When I do wrong, I don’t have fear, I have guilt because I know what I’ve done is wrong. The same as when you were a child and you did something against your parents’ wishes. If you ask a Christian what their opinion of God is, I doubt if they’ll tell you that He is some big nasty mean God that will smite you down if you sin. ;p
<<The Crusades. The Inquisition. The WTC. Jehovah's Witnesses. African overpopulation. The African AIDS epidemic. Witch Burnings. Female Genital Mutilation. Cardinal Law. Jerry Falwell. Notice a theme?>> yes, a lot of people have used Christianity as justification for their own gains and warped opinions – but to judge an entire group because of that is a scapegoat. It’s much easier to justify behaviors by using the bad apples as an excuse than to be diligent in serving God.
<<After that ramble, some, in fact most of you, will probably be offended with me>> I’m not offended – I actually understand where you are coming from. Doesn’t mean that I agree, but I do understand.
<<I'm not giving up my right to watch A Clockwork Orange just because you're a crappy parent.>> once again…. No one has asked that you or anyone else give up what they consider as entertainment. However, be responsible with it. It is everyone’s responsibility because we live in a civilized society. No one is asking you or anyone else to raise someone else’s children – but it takes a lot more than just the parents to keep the inappropriate things away from the children. Why are we so hell-bent on depriving children of their innocence?
<<If your kid is looking to me or the media for role-models, it's probably because (s)he can't find any closer to home. Don't expect me to do it.>> It’s very common for a child to become infatuated with a movie actor or sports figure because they live the “glamorous” life and they often mistake this for being role models or hero-worshipping. I don’t expect you to be a role model for children, but I would at least hope that you would have enough pride in yourself to be a good example. No, you don’t have to live your life of always being “a good example” but if you are standing in front of children – don’t use vulgar language, don’t grab your crotch and flip off someone, etc. That’s all it takes to be a good example. If you are among peers – grab, cuss, and flip all you want. ; )
Do you honestly think it’s ok for a bunch of kindergarten children to watch something like Clock Work Orange? If not, then why would it be ok for people to act like that in front of them? No, I didn’t say anything about anyone raising my children or raising some one else’s children… I just said that we need to be better examples for them and be responsible adults when around them.
Parents can be very responsible in what they allow their children to watch, see and do – but with the media exposure these days, it’s impossible to do it alone.
Actually, I think the original comment was that media has an influence over people. ;)
<<Abstinence doesn’t work>> actually, it does. But I know what you are probably referring to.. the _teaching_ of abstinence doesn’t work, right? It may not be totally successful, but how many times IS it successful? Just because something doesn’t work 100% of the time, doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be taught. This could apply to just about anything that is taught for safety sake. Why do we have laws? People break laws so should we just stop trying to enforce them? You tell your child not to touch the hot stove, but they do anyway… do you stop telling them to not touch it if they reach for it again?

Kaito> excellent points. : )

I haven’t had the time to thoroughly read all of the posts – I have had company for the past several days and have spent my time entertaining or being too exhausted to read the posts. From what I have read/skimmed over – I’ve enjoyed seeing the different points of views :)
Jan
Thursday, May 30, 2002 09:05:34 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Hitleriffic!!

Topic seems to be Hitler rumors.
I'm reminded of a line from this weird-a$$ movie called "Europa, Europa"
-Dream Sequence-
-Hitler is found hiding in a closet, his hands over his crotch.

Unnamed character: "He's a Jew! That's why he covers it with his hands!!.
---------------------------------------
What about the rumor that Hitler had only one ----?

Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt,
Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze brüdrelich zusammen hält.

Von der Maas bis an die Memel, von der Etsch bis an den Belt.

Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt!
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt!

Joseph Haydn: Deutsche Nationalhymne, 1797

Leo
Thursday, May 30, 2002 07:24:55 PM
IP: 172.133.189.202

SILVERBOLT - Well, I'd get into a lot of trouble with the staff if I gave anything much away; all that I can say is that there will be new antagonists in this season of "Timedancer". I don't dare say anything more.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, May 30, 2002 07:21:21 PM
IP: 65.57.58.116

*sighs* and because I have to say this: I don't HATE america itself; I hate what it does and allows in its own name. Don't label me an American hating commie.
metaldemon
Thursday, May 30, 2002 07:04:16 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

I find it incompatable for Christians to judge who is and who isn't the real christian in the world, despite the sin comitted by the person being JUDGED.

<<profit>> One of the BIG things that emphasized in this country and others.

<<hatred>> which once flourished in America in the fifties (communists), and in Europes during the middle-ages

<<and self-worship>> I can't help but think that we Americans have this attitude that we are better than other countries. to be fair, not only America, but this is found in the very basic concept of patriotism excersized throughout the world.

<<things that are fundamentally incompatible with an intact version of Christianity.>> Agreed.

<<Hitler and these terrorists share that much in common.>> And us, too; only we are blind to it and don't carry it out to an extreme.

The point is, is Hitler fully belived what he was doing was his Christian duty. If Christianity calls for love of one's neighbour and enemies, and forgiveness to all, why is it this country puts so many people to death. we have our own holocaust on people we feel worthy of death too, and we lock them up as well. In Hitler's eyes, the Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, and any other human being was deemed guilty enough to be put to death without recieving the CHRISTIAN DUTY TO FORGIVE AND LOVE. Take the log out of your own eye before you take the splinter that is in your brother's eye.
What Hitler did was absolutley DISGUSTIGN, and he claimed to be a christian. I find what we Americans do to our own prisoners, which Hitler did too to his own (kill them out of hate and venagnce), equally disgusting and no better. And we have the nerve to say "God Bless America" "One nation under God" when we kill His own children out of unforgiveness and vengance--the same things Hitler excersized himself!! No government can claim to be christianized or be the extension of God because it will do evil deeds in the name of God.
metaldemon
Thursday, May 30, 2002 06:55:38 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

kaioto>> <<Hitler was completely unworthy of the title of Christian.>> not disagreeing with that. << He was a disgrace to the entire human race>> uh huh. << Just like the more sane Moslems I know in this country regard the suicide bombers as not practicing Islam, I regard Hitler as never practicing Christianity>> i would say he was a practicing christian.. but that his version of christianity was VERY warped and wrong-headed. he apparently forgot that whole "forgiveness" thing, along with a bunch of other rather integral stuff like "love your neighbour" etc. he picked one part out of the book that he liked, and disregarded the rest. as is the case with all religious psychos. <<And, that a person in secular power would choose a religion to use as a tool of propaganda is old-hat. Just another cheap trick of a megalomaniac>> not just a magalomaniac. i was in class, watching a taped version of one of hitlers speaches in which he way praying for GOD to help the german people in their "fight for freedom". then i went for lunch and watched cnn and saw bush say almost exactly the same thing. i was rather chilled. just because i KNOW someone in here is going to take that the wrong way, let me point out that im *NOT* (in case you mised that.. NOT NOT NOT) trying to draw a comparison between bush and hitler. im trying to say that i believe religion has no place in politics. it has such a potential for missuse - and when its missused, many people (like some of the christians in nazi germany) don't see when it crosses the line. i believe hitler would not nearly have been so successful had he not said and managed to convince people he was "doing it for GOD" <<The true religion of Hitler's Nazi Germany was profit, hatred, and self-worship, things that are fundamentally incompatible with an intact version of Christianity>> ooookay.. seeing as how i have NO wish to be completely mangled in here (today, anyways) ill NOT go there.. yeek! though.. im pretty sure i can think of someone else who will;) <<Hitler and these terrorists share that much in common>> like i said.. you can twist any religion. << In the face of the Godless facist machine..>> you missed my point, didnt you? << Stalin and Hitler both believed in the same thing, ultimately, themselves and their own power>> yes yes, i very much agree.
my point, really, is the abuse of the word "GOD" in the context of war. i believe it was inappropriate for hitler to use it, i believe its inappropriate for islamic extremists to use it and i believe it is inappropriate for western leaders to use it. many times i have heard g w bush talk about praying GOD is on their side, as i have heard the fundamentalist islamic community pray for the same thing. this seems both arrogant and foolish to me.
i think perhaps they would do better to pray THEY were on *GODS* side, not the other way around.

i think we are in agreement here, except for the part where i believe hitler was a christian because he based his philosophies on so-called "christian" ideals (aka with the picking out of one part that he liked and forgetting the rest) and you believe that because he forgot the rest, he wasn't a true christian.
very well, i would quite agree that hitler went completely against what "christianity" really stands for. but the fact still remains HE believed himself to be a christian, and he DID believe in the christ and the resurrection. this alone, like i said, is enough to make him a christian. i completely agree that he disgraced the REST of the christian teachings.. but he still did it all in the name of GOD.
this is the reason why you cannot say hitler was an atheist.

david g>> <<The sick little Austrian who couldn't master life drawing and blamed the jews could SAY he was a Christian until the heat-death of the universe, but that didn't make it true>> uh huh.. but i dont think its the place of other christians to ultimately says who else is christian and whos not. i was under the impression that was GODs job.. o.O and.. how can you say you know what jesus would and wouldnt do? of course, most christians would WANT to believe hitlers eternal soul is currently burning in the firey pits of hell.. but noone knows that. pardon a heathen for saying so but.. it seems arrogant to presume.. unless you were in on any last words hitler might have shared with your GOD? <<Christ said that anyone who didn't love his neighbor didn't love Christ either, and Hitler clearly and demonstrably didn't love his neighbor>> wellllll.. he didnt say love ALL your neighbours, now did he? ;) yeah yeah yeah i get your point, though. and thats what i tried to clarify above. <<People who wanted to believe they were Christian are responsible for a lot of reprehensible things, and if they died without seeking forgivness (which is likely, since they didn't believe they needed to be forgiven) then they're burning in Hell for all eternity>> *does very best to sit on hands and not smack gunjack VERY hard*

patrick>> <<To the TGS staff in general (wherever you are)... I'm also saddened by the reception I've repeatedly seen given to anyone who dares ask about the status of the project in this comment room. "Never. Go away." What a way to embrace the new fans>> saddens me too, my friend. but.. even if we all want to be superbly pessimistic that "timedancer" will never come out, i give you my word that something interesting will be happening in TGS in the near future. at least.. id like to THINK its interesting.. :)
lain
Thursday, May 30, 2002 06:54:45 PM
IP: 65.92.91.122

PATRICK - I don't blame you for what you said; I've been feeling quite bothered by our long delay in getting TGS stories out. All that I can say is that the problem isn't lack of ambition; it's lack of opportunity. We want to get it done; it's just that we haven't found that much time to work on it for quite a while; too many of us have had too many RL responsibilities that have prevented us from being able to contribute much to Breakdowns, Writing, and Edits. We're hoping to come out with the early "Timedancer" stories for this season soon. It's just that things have been a real jungle lately.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, May 30, 2002 06:30:05 PM
IP: 67.28.94.98

Lain> Hitler wasn't a Christian in the only way that mattered - Christ wouldn't recognize him. The sick little Austrian who couldn't master life drawing and blamed the jews could SAY he was a Christian until the heat-death of the universe, but that didn't make it true.

Christ said that anyone who didn't love his neighbor didn't love Christ either, and Hitler clearly and demonstrably didn't love his neighbor.

People who wanted to believe they were Christian are responsible for a lot of reprehensible things, and if they died without seeking forgivness (which is likely, since they didn't believe they needed to be forgiven) then they're burning in Hell for all eternity.

Ok, enough pointificating from out of the darkness. I hope to see some of ya'll at A-Kon this weekend.

Weapon restrictions at the airport have made me decide not to wear my ususal "Death" costume because of the metal claws. I'll probably be in my Golden Age Sandman costume (trench coat, fedora, gas mask) instead.

If you see me, by all means come talk to me. Just be really obvious since I won't be able to see well, and my hearing will be a little funky, too. Body tackles aren't out of the question as a way to get my attention. :)
David G. - [david_goodner@yahoo.com]
Arlington, TX, USA
Thursday, May 30, 2002 06:01:33 PM
IP: 198.215.20.3

Taleweaver > I'm sad to say it, but my eagerness and my expectations for TGS have steadily dwindled over the past year along an exponential curve that's now approaching zero.

Todd > I know this will seem harsh no matter how it'd said, but you sound like a broken record. TGS has been pitching the same excuses for almost a year. As a former contributor, it makes me sad to think that there could be so little ambition left in the project that whatever small group is left can't even turn out ONE new story every four to six months.

To the TGS staff in general (wherever you are)... I'm also saddened by the reception I've repeatedly seen given to anyone who dares ask about the status of the project in this comment room. "Never. Go away." What a way to embrace the new fans.
Just my two cents.
Patrick Toman
Thursday, May 30, 2002 05:59:46 PM
IP: 67.38.243.176

Lain :

Hitler was completely unworthy of the title of Christian. He was a disgrace to the entire human race. His actions and philosophy were about as Un-Christian as it gets. Just like the more sane Moslems I know in this country regard the suicide bombers as not practicing Islam, I regard Hitler as never practicing Christianity. To claim a title and then not practice is the epitomy of paying lip-service.

And, that a person in secular power would choose a religion to use as a tool of propaganda is old-hat. Just another cheap trick of a megalomaniac. The true religion of Hitler's Nazi Germany was profit, hatred, and self-worship, things that are fundamentally incompatible with an intact version of Christianity. Hitler and these terrorists share that much in common.

It really isn't that strange, Hitler sent conscientious Catholics to the death camps, born one himself. Plenty of German Protestants wound up in there too. In the face of the Godless facist machine, anyone who put God before the interests of the Nazi Party was marked for death.

What those actions reall show is that Stalin and Hitler both believed in the same thing, ultimately, themselves and their own power. Stalin was just a little less subtle about it.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, May 30, 2002 05:29:19 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Jessie> HA! As if they would! As far as I can gather Disney hated that show and they think it was a mistake. They'd rather do their crappy little, poorly animated cartoons that are based in school like Recess and Pepper Ann and Lloyd in space. They would never listen 2 us and neither would the TV channels. I'm sorry if I sound a bit harsh but I doubt gargoyles will ever come back no matter how many of us wanted it.

Incidentally Todd could u give us at least a clue what happens in season 4? u know just a simple yes or no answer 2 if they'll be any new bad guys or sumthing.
Silverbolt - [silverbolt2012@hotmail.com]
Thursday, May 30, 2002 05:21:37 PM
IP: 213.120.137.67

Hey I've just found this website and I think it is awesome! But is there any way we could convince the TV channels to put a new Gargoyles series on the air?
Jessie - [Bronxs18@aol.com]
Bronx, NY, US
Thursday, May 30, 2002 04:34:36 PM
IP: 64.12.101.178

You say you need new recruits? Anything I can do for y'all to help things out without, you know, ruining the surprise for me?
Wingedbeast - [wingedbeast@hotmail.com]
Thursday, May 30, 2002 03:44:04 PM
IP: 65.229.57.35

kaioto>> sorry for my late response on this, but I had to do some research..
<<Hilter and his buddies didn't have time for religion. They were by and large utterly Godless folk no matter what petty lip-service they paid for the cameras.>> have you ever actually READ "mien kampf"? or listened to hitlers speeches? or browsed through copies of his private notebooks?
let me make a few quotes here:

"my feelings as a christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. it points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, GODs truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. in boundless love as a christian and as a man i read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the temple the brood of vipers and adders. how terrific was His fight for the world against the jewish poison. to-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion i recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the cross. As a christian i have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but i have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... and if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. for as a christian i have also a duty to my own people."
-adolf hitler, in a speech on 12 april 1922

for "lip service", thats pretty darned good..

"no, it is not we that have deserted christianity, it is those who came before us who deserted christianity. we have only carried through a clear division between politics which have to do with terrestrial things, and religion, which must concern itself with the celestial sphere. there has been no interference with the doctrine (lehre ) of the confessions or with their religious freedom (bekenntnisfreiheit ), nor will there be any such interference. on the contrary the state protects religion, though always on the one condition that religion will not be used as a cover for political ends.... national socialism neither opposes the church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real christianity.... for their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against a bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life... these are not anti-christian, these are christian principles! and I believe that if we should fail to follow these principles then we should to be able to point to our successes, for the result of our political battle is surely not unblest by GOD."
-adolf hitler, in his speech at koblenz, to the germans of the saar, 26 aug. 1934

and lastly:
"we were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. we have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
-adolf hitler, in a speech in berlin on 24 oct. 1933

i think that last one kinda nails the lid on the coffin of the idea that the nazis were.. how did you phrase it..? an "utterly Godless folk."

<< Heck, Hilter was born a Jew.>> aaaaactually, he was a catholic. but lets not pick that nit.

and all of this might just be "petty lip service" but i challenge you to go research some of hitlers private notes - the ones he was writing for himself, not the cameras. you will see that not only did he believe in the christ, and the resurrection (which, alone, is enough to earn the label "christian") but also that he drew his justifications for his actions from the bible.
<<too busy reading Mein Kampf to bother with a Bible>> "mein kampf" is brimming with plays on biblical quotes. "their sword will become our plow, and from the tears of war the daily bread of future generations will grow" (referencing micah 4:3 and also joel 3:9-10 "beat your plowshares into swords.") "sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be 'discovered' by an election." (twisting mark 10:25), "verily a man cannot serve two masters. and i consider the foundation or destruction of a religion far greater than the foundation or destruction of a state, let alone a party" (again a twist, but this time on matthew 6:24). the list goes on. and on. and on and on and on. the german army wore belt buckles stamped with the words "gott mit uns" (GOD with us).
sure, everyone knows he dabbled with pagan religions.. but at the end of the day, he was a christian, and justified all of his actions by citing so-called "christian" ideals.

right.. and as though that wont get me in ENOUGH trouble..:P

Patrick>> << I think I'll stick with Jesus... and one of the big reasons why is because He never encouraged anyone to strap a bomb to their chest and blow up a busload of school kids by promising them 72 virgins would be waiting for them in heaven>> again with the reading of sources. the qur'an says: "o ye who believe!... [do not] kill yourselves, for truly allah has been to you most merciful. if any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall we cast him into the fire..." (4:29-30). maybe i just missed the part about the 72 virgins.. but if you can find me the quote, and the context, please feel free to share.
however, in our labeling of muslims as terrorists and in saying they get their inspiration from their holy book, lets not forget that the first palestinian suicide bomber was a chriatian, not a muslim. its not about the religion. its about extremism. its the justification using "GOD" that makes it dangerous.

alright.. thats enough for now.
i think i need to sit in some ice water *wishes for air conditioner* good thing im not going to a-kon. id probably DIE.

love,
lain
the Great Hot North
Thursday, May 30, 2002 03:40:17 PM
IP: 65.92.91.122

Hello all,
Joanne> I know it's not going to make me lots of friends but I agree with Joanne. I understand RL complications and I think that covered the first delay, but it's been nearly a year since a new episode was posted. I think the CR suffers for it.

Let me toss this queation out for any and all to answer. How eager are you for the next season of TGS? And has that level increased or diminished over time?

What do the rest of you think?
Taleweaver - [loremaster27@hotmail.com]
Thursday, May 30, 2002 01:58:23 PM
IP: 134.71.41.95

Sheesh, you guys, get your own codeine and quit nipping off my kid's medicine! ; ) But seriously, thanks for the well-wishes. She is doing okay and we have an appt. with the specialists tomorrow morning. Hopefully, we will find out if they need to do surgery on her elbow or not, and how long she'll be in the cast. She tried to go back to school yesterday but school policy doesn't allow kids on narcotics. Wish we'd known that before we took her to class and then had to haul her out. Ah, well, she got to say hi to her friends anyway. Got Harry Potter on DVD and so she's been happy as a clam (except that we can't figure out how to find the bleeping extra scenes -- anyone else found them yet?).

Book news > I got the edits back on Knight of the Basilisk, and hope to turn them back around to Casey in the next couple of days. So then it'll just be a matter of doing the little details like back cover copy, dedication page, teaser for Book III, etc. And off to the printer. So, should be about 8-10 weeks until it's an actuality!

Aaron > well, yes, THE Christine Morgan is always nice, but what I meant was that I far and away prefer Christine to the various nicknames for it. Most of my relatives still just call me Chris and my grandparents will probably never break of the Chrissy habit, heaven help me. It always annoyed my sister that her given name was Amy, so she didn't have many options for aliases.

Impfac > I work the overnight shift in a residential transitional facility for the housing and treatment of dual-diagnosis (mental illness / substance abuse) clients. Whew, what a mouthful that is.

Warpmind > a sterling silver Illuminati ring, eh? LOL.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:14:22 AM
IP: 67.226.12.221

JOANNE - We're working on Season Four, we really are! It's just that, again, the last several months have been a real nightmare for us. Most of us are so snowed under with RL and computer problems that we barely have enough time to work on getting TGS done. And we only have a rather small staff this year at that (since most of the people whom we recruited on our last recruitment drive didn't stay long). So we're still working on getting TGS done, but it's a lot harder for us this season than in the past three seasons. Please be patient with us.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, May 30, 2002 08:21:29 AM
IP: 67.28.90.42

Mostly ran errands today. Doctor's appointment, picked up a bolt to attach my propeller to my car (yes, I bought one of those things), fixed my cousin's computer, etc. Not too exciting.

In other news, the 1394 Trade Association has officially licensed "Firewire" from Apple, along with the logo. No more "I'll always call it IEEE 1394, you apple commie!" Because its Firewire all the way.

Where do you guys get your WWII history "facts"? Because it sure isn't from this reality.

I got an A- in transportation engineering. Apparently, I can say "too many cars" and get $150,000 a year. Pretty cool, huh? My GPA is gonna go up this semester instead of failing out.

Gside: <>: Oh sure, interpret it to suggest they're smarter than I am. <<Only if you have a video turner card>>: No, I have DTV and it causes many hours of unblinking. <<Buck Futter>>: Been there, said that 8-) <<It is good to see that you know your place>>: Then again, maybe he's just pretending to suck up so you'll be quiet. <<very easy to tell which version is Dylan's>>: The incoherent one. <<I'm in it for the porn>>: Aren't we all? <<you get to have the fun of transforming them>>: Its a beautiful thing to twist an innocent girl to your desires. <<USAF project MX981>>: What was that? <<no one could be like me>>: Or maybe just no one would want to.

Warpmind: <<That's a LOT of orange... Is Doug back, or something?>>: Really, what are the odds of that? <<Where the jailbait is concerned, you should visit Norway someday>>: The age of consent laws are probably different there. <<Obviously, this means that the training works exceedingly well>>: "And Swell 2 3 4, swell 2 3 4..." <<even abstinence isn't 100% safe>>: It is if you're avoiding pregnancy. <<it DOES have a Mac version, so you don't have THAT excuse to refuse>>: Does it run natively in OS X? Because after this winter, I'm not using it anymore. <<Only when treated properly. You'd be AMAZED at how many soft patches of skin have that effect>>: No, I don't think I would be.

Kaioto: <<you continuously tax a property every year, and more property is not purchased through additional investment, then eventually there is no property left to tax>>: Um, no. All property is taxed every year. As long as the people on the land have income, that supply of tax money for the government is inexhaustible. If the church can't afford to have the land, they shouldn't have it. Let it be turned into housing projects for low income families, paid for/subsidized by the government. Or let it be developed into something useful. <<were it subject to property tax could never in a Million Years reach break-even status with the most generous of donations>>: By itself, no. But its a member of a much larger religious organization. Also, I don't think it needs to be subject to full taxes that the rest of us are. Religion provides a much needed service to the population (i.e. opium) and should be recognized as such. But SOME money should be paid to the government. <<you haven't been taxed every year since you were born>>: You obviously have no clue how tax shelters work, then. <<You've actually been a Income tax-shield for most of your life as a dependant, a tax-credit>>: That much is true. However, much money is funneled to me because my income taxes are lower than my parents. And I *did* pay income tax on it. I've been paying income tax on money I *earned* since about age 12. The rest was paid on money I was given. Either way, less for me. Sounds like a tax, doesn't it? <<You didn't pay income tax. You didn't pay property tax. You didn't pay excise tax. You didn't pay corporate tax>>: I'm sorry, but I've held stock since before I was born. <<sales tax isn't an actual tax on the consumer, but a tax on the retailer than they like to pass on to you>>: Don't pussyfoot around that. I pay sales tax. If it weren't a tax on the consumer, than people wouldn't be so opposed to it. <<THEY are the ones who have to pony up the money to the IRS>>: Look, I don't care who winds up with the cash. The government enforces a fee for which I recieve no services and no goods. That sounds like a tax to me. <<The quote in question is in reference to the relationship between a taxing body and Institutions, not individuals>>: Yes, I know 8-) I was just giving you a hard time. <<actually, that statement is an outright lie>>: True. What I meant to say was that most nazis were protestants, and that public deviation from that religion resulted in ostracism and worse. <<You expect me to believe that there were no Atheists, Agnoistics, lapse-Catholics, etc in the Nazi party?>>: No, I don't. But they all claimed to be protestant. <<Heck, Hilter was born a Jew>>: There is some theory that his paternal grandmother was jewish (or part jewish), but this has NEVER been proven. <<Rumors have persisted ever since>>: Sadly, no proof has ever surfaced. <<they apparently disturbed Adolf enough to make a law that made him exempt from his own "Final Solution.">>: Sounds more like insurance than any hard proof. <<Messy, messy business indeed>>: This is hitler we're talking about. Of course its messy.

DPH: <<It's about an attitude of service>>: To themselves. <<Are you saying that I need to put a moat around my house?>>: Don't we all? I know I plan to. <<What about all of those people who signed "True Love Waits" cards?>>: Is that proof of some sort?

Spacebabie: <>: Hi. Wiggy. <<How long til I get spazzy?>>: You're already there. <<Been doing a lot of webworking>>: Spidergirl? <>: If you say so. <<If my Nana can do it so can he>>: Is your grandmother exceptionally stupid? <<I’ll force feed myself If I get too close to going below 100>>: How tall are you? <<But I would rather give them>>: I'm sure you would. <<Money, chocolate, and sex>>: Sold. When do I start? <<Well since you are dreaming then the right word would be “and”>>: Exactly. <<A man needs to get of his lazy butt and do his own chores>>: Not me. That's why I need a maid. <<That’s cause I’m lazy>>: I don't think so. <<Eat scallops, or clams, or oysters, or muscles during these warm months>>: Ice cream will do just fine. <<Can I have some of that medicine?>>: You're already a little loopy, too. <<With fake flesh that is close to real?>>: mmmmmm... <<when I was a Freshman my chest was barley a B size>>: Thank you for that information.

Green Baron: <<it's incovenient and uncomfortable to have a little self-control>>: You have no idea. <<including stuff like IUDs or whatever that one is>>: You got it right. Obviously the info didn't stick, though ;-) <<She has friends who wished they waited>>: I don't have a single friend (female or not) who wished they waited, nor do I have any ex's who wished they waited. <<even a guy like me can get laid, especially in Germany>>: I've seen German porn...there are far worse than you getting laid. <<keep it safe, use hands>>: You can keep it safe and use a lot more than hands, assuming there's another person involved. <<Its easy that my choice of clothes is pre-determined for me most of the time>>: Just be glad you aren't an engineer. You'd be really screwed then. I'm totally match-deficient. <<How about Attila Cordova>>: As long as its not Josh Cordova, its cool. <<what good is a politically liberal born-again Christian>>: Cannon fodder? <<Maybe we should have sent all the French into Palestine and given the Jews Southern France, while the UK got Normandy and Brittany>>: Oh, that's brilliant. Put the jews next to the country that just tried to kill them. The next phase in one-stop genocide! <<It is religious purity that is responsible for Talibans and Puritans>>: Besides, if you don't judge a religion by its participants (who may or may not follow a scripture to the letter), how can you call reading the scripture an accurate estimation of the religion? <<He may have been right about Communists in Hollywood>>: No, just liberals. <<if you see God as irrelevant, then why is it a holy land?>>: Details, details. <<blamed the Jews on the fact that he was a semi-literate peasant thug>>: Because when you think about it, its obviously my fault that I'm rich and he wasn't. <<these Protestants were not nice and huggable like Daphne or decent folks like DPH, either>>: Obviously. And I can't verify that Daphne is huggable. <<Air lift it and drop it on Paris from above>>: HAHAHAHA. That is the funniest thing I've heard all night. <<blame the "rich Jews">>: I didn't do it! <<he blamed the Jewish doctor who failed to save his mother>>: Fool. Everyone knows the jewish doctors are the best ones. Lawyers, too. <<blamed the Jews for the fact that he was a crappy avant-garde artist>>: Silly, silly.

Joanne: <<this is a realy crapy site !>>: Not quite as crappy as your spelling. <<where is season 4 of gargoyles>>: Somewhere else.

IMPFAC: <<The Germans, and the Allies, were amazed to find that the aircraft actually had an incredibly reduced radar signature>>: Ah, okay. I will concede that they discovered this afterwards. But I don't think they understood enough about light deflection in radar to *design* with those intentions. Unfortunately for the germans, those weapons had no indoor weapons bays. As soon as weapons were tacked on, those planes would have had nearly as much of a radar reflection.

Gside: <<We tried that after WWI. We got a depression and WWII in return>>: That's just because we didn't REALLY punish them 8-) <<Anything is an erogenous zone to the right person>>: True, true. <<Apparently there's a market for Nazi porn>>: That's messed up.

Okay, out for the night. See ya'll tomorrow.

To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.
-PureEvil (TeenChatCenter)

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Encino, CA, US of A
Thursday, May 30, 2002 02:00:04 AM
IP: 206.170.217.23

Aaron> <>: We tried that after WWI. We got a depression and WWII in return.

Imzadi> <<Do I really want to know?>>: Just a quick check for vital signs.
<<Is the armpit an erogenous zone I was previously unaware of?>>: Anything is an erogenous zone to the right person.
<<TPB for my bunghole?!>>: Only if you don't like the work.
<<More need not be said>>: You are not a true geek.
<<What does that have to do with his first sentence?>>: Apparently there's a market for Nazi porn.

Warpind> <<You got it. On both topics. Have a cookie>>: I insuld your singing voice, and I get a cookie? Awright.

Spacebabie> <>: Not Wiigi?
<<Oh Really>>: But of course.
<>: Better...
<<No the devil made New Jersey>>: No, there's a Devil in Jersey, but we did this ourselves.

And the new mp3 is This Is The Time To Remember by Billy Joel.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, May 30, 2002 01:46:57 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

IMPFAC> I agree wholeheartedly with your statement about terrorism and Islam. Every religion that I know about (except those that had human sacrifice as part of the rituals) expressly forbids the taking of human lives.
Brian Thietje - [thietje@aol.com]
Naches, WA, USA
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:15:48 PM
IP: 198.81.16.174

Josh>>> <<<However, German's flying wing concepts (which were all small fighter aircraft and look nothing like our stealth fighters) had no reduced radar signature over other aircraft.>>> Ah, not true my friend. The Germans, and the Allies, were amazed to find that the aircraft actually had an incredibly reduced radar signature. The war kept this more an interesting note than something to be exploited, of course.

Hitler the Jew> Rumor pure and simple, largely based on Hitler’s irrational fears. He had his blood tested many, many times for ‘Judaizing,’ and in fact kept vials of his blood around (Robert G.L. Wait, “Hitler, the Psychopathic God,” good book). There is a possibility that one of his parents was the product of a Jewish employer and his maid. Later, Hitler made laws specifically outlawing Jews from employing Aryan women. Sound familiar? But we can never really know if any of this is true.

Patrick> I think I'll stick with Jesus... and one of the big reasons why is because He never encouraged anyone to strap a bomb to their chest and blow up a busload of school kids by promising them 72 virgins would be waiting for them in heaven.>>>

Ugh. That’s such a vicious, ignorant statement. I’ll say it when you make the slander, and when my buddy Pat Robertson makes it. If you read what Mohammed said, war is to be used only against the Pagans, and the rules set out were VERY clear: harm no innocents, destroy no buildings, harm not a tree if upon it be a green leaf. Christian’s and Jews are people of the book, acceptors of the one god, brothers, and to be treated as such.

Is Jesus as responsible for the millions slaughtered in his name? No. The treatment of the populace under Islam when they came storming in in the late 600's in Jerusalem was astonishingly kind and thoughtful. The Caliph took great care not to pray at Christian holy sites because he knew (as would come true) that were he prayed would later be claimed as Muslims holy sites. The Christians murdered EVERYONE (literally-they killed absolutely everyone in the city) when the took over. Is that the fault of Jesus? Neither are the suicide bombings today.

IMPFAC - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 08:25:45 PM
IP: 66.66.203.129

this is a realy crapy site ! where is season 4 of gargoyles. it has been talked about for far too long. you are all taking the piss out off all us fan's.(and for anyone not from dublin taking the piss mean's not taking somthing or someone serious}i use to think this site was deadly.(deadly means great)
joanne
dublin, Ierland
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 07:36:47 PM
IP: 62.254.101.24

"that their member could participiate in war or join any militaires" should be "that their members could NOT participate..."

that is all. thank you and good night. :)
metaldemon
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 06:54:35 PM
IP: 129.120.86.117

GB> the reason why Tolstoy was reacting against Orthodox and Catholic churches was because he found no where in their donctrines that spoke against Christians being in War, or of being in the army (to out it in his words, "non-resistance to evil" though he elaborates this to mean what I said before). This is waht he meant by getting back to fist century. The early christians spoke against ALL violence; that their member could participiate in war or join any militaires. Tolstoy explicates this in "The Law of Love and the Law of Violence." Also, he was against the idea of a central head being infallible, and that others must obey him or be taken as a heretic.

I fully agree with him when he says that the Church and Christianity became corrupt when it became a state religion in Rome; when the Church and State joined together.

I might also add that Tolstoy, a former soldier, didn't believe in any of this until he actually read the Bible, then again in Greek. Before, he was just Orthodox. He gives a detailed account of everything in "A Confession."

As far as him being an idealist: have you actually read him? And what have you read by him?
metaldemon
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 05:53:25 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Aaron> <<Maybe that's because abstinence *doesn't* work. We can't even get priests to abstain these days, and you expect these little balls of hormones in hip-huggers to not make the sign of the aardvark the minute they get the chance?>> Actually, abstinence can work, but it's incovenient and uncomfortable to have a little self-control. I went to a Catholic school and we learned about both abstinence and artificial birth control. Obviously abstinence was favored, but we learned about artificial and natural birth control in Religion and Biology class. In Biology, we learned about effectiveness of different methods of birth control, including stuff like IUDs or whatever that one is.

But if you mean pure abstinence doesn't work, you're probably right. A couple can wait on intercourse, but there is a whole lot else that they can do, and it is still fun and safer. My sister is a virgin and she is not the least bit religious. She has friends who wished they waited, because they may have done it to avoid being ridiculed or out of curiosity. It is amazing how many single parents there are in the Army, and how many guys are getting their pay garnished. Now, a lot of them put on a condom, but sometimes that ain't enough.

Even in the safety briefings my unit gets, sex is mentioned with the proverbial use a condom, though in jest we'll say use a kevlar or something else. Now if abstinence isn't mentioned, it won't change someone's plans. I won't decide to have a wild weekend of orgies as long as I use a condom, and in the Army, even a guy like me can get laid, especially in Germany.

My own advice on sex: keep it safe, use hands. And I wish they would because I am sick of soliders whining about some garnishment on their pay, because they were thinking with the wrong head.

<<Funny, I would have thought the opposite was true.>> It depends on what you wear. I can come up with some pretty tacky combiantions, as my roomate has pointed out time and again. Its easy that my choice of clothes is pre-determined for me most of the time :)

<<What's wrong with Loki Harris Cordova?>> How about Attila Cordova :D

<<Tony Shaloob (Voice of the Emir from Grief)>> But I will always remember him as Antonio Scarpatchi. The epidoe with Jonathan Frakes was very Xanatos-like.

<<Think about it. The Crusades. The Inquisition. The WTC. Jehovah's Witnesses. African overpopulation. The African AIDS epidemic. Witch Burnings. Female Genital Mutilation. Cardinal Law. Jerry Falwell. Notice a theme?>> You forgot Jesse Jackson, Puritanism, Jane Fonda becoming a born-again Christian (and seriously what good is a politically liberal born-again Christian), and Jack Chick.

Here's a funny thought about the current problems in the world: The Versailles Traety screwed Germany and created the demand for a man like Hitler, but why was Germany screwed? France. Even John Maynard Keynes knew the Versaille Treaty was a bad idea, but no one listened. During WWII, we allowed Daladier, a Vichy pawn, to rule part of Germany. We even let DeGaulle (who dragged us into Vietnam with the help of LBJ) march first into a liberated Paris. Patton liberated France and he should have marched through Paris.

Maybe we should have sent all the French into Palestine and given the Jews Southern France, while the UK got Normandy and Brittany.

<<Does that mean that it would be justifiable to, say, toss all hispanics in California in the clink for a year or so>> Well, we imprison all their men and I'll take the women :D

Kaioto> <<Consequently, you can't be absolved from the responsibility of using your own judgment and listening to your own conscience.>> I think the rule about whether an order is lawful would apply, and sometimes the burden is on us to make that call.

Metaldemon> <<If you're gonna trash a religion, read it's Scripture.>> But no religion is purely adherent to one sacred text, no matter the claims. It is religious purity that is responsible for Talibans and Puritans.

<<This is why I like Leo Tolstoy, because he spoke against religious institutions and wanted to get back to first century Christianity.>> Well, I admit nothing makes you more noble than being persecuted by an Empire of degenerate perverts, but the thing is Christianty was still evolving and growing at the end of the first century. Tolstoy was an idealist and had some good ideas, but he was also reacting to the Russian Orthodox Church at the time.

Impfac> <<McCarthy was right.>> Now, to annoy my mother I woudl pretend to say good about McCarthy, but he was by large a demagouge who personally cared little about Communism. He may have been right about Communists in Hollywood, but look at it nowadays. Eisenhower was right to oreder him censured and fighting Communism is handled better by men like Chief of Internal Security Frank Worthington, who made an effort to watch for legitimate Communist threats to the US in the 60s and 70s, as well as groups like SDS, the Weathermen, and the Simbionese Liberation Army. McCarthy was no better than Huey Long, who is highly responsible for much of what is worng with Louisiana today, and he probably inspired Lyndon Johnson's Great Society.

<<We have every RIGHT to the holy land.>> Question, if you see God as irrelevant, then why is it a holy land?

<<Stalin also did well in getting communists into important positions in the US throughout the 1930's-40's, and built a spy network the US is STILL just finding out about.>> Don't forget that FDR's Vice President in his thrid term was Harry Wallace, a Stalinsit symapthizer. Just imagine if Roosevelt died earlier and Wallace became President.

Patrick Toman> A fitting joke, indeed.

Hitler and Stalin> Who was more evil? I don't know. Stalin got away with more. Hitler was paranoid and irrational, and Churchill exploited Hitler's temper to win the Battle of Britain. Stalin was more pragmatic and more ruthless. Stalin hated the Jewish people and even referred to Trotsky and his two associates as the "three yids", but also Stalin was a lowly peasant and like the filthy masses of Germany, blamed the Jews on the fact that he was a semi-literate peasant thug, while Lenin was actually from a minor noble family.

I would prefer to fight Hitler, because he was more irrational and built on grand schemes and ideas. He was a man who envisioned himself a Wagnerian Odin. He was also an incompetent soldier and wrecked Rommel's Army on the Russian Invasion. While Hitler had the insight to know Russia was decaying, he overestimated the level of decay and forgot about the Russian winter that defeated Napoleon. He was nothing more than a modrn artist who had a good speaking ability. Stalin was a ruthless criminal genuis who had no grand ambitions of deification. His only odd habit was that he had himself flogged for policy errors, because of his days as a Russian Orthodox Seminarian.

Hitler self-destructed while Stalin died in his sleep a wealthy man. If I choose an enemy to fight and can fight for the long haul, I'd choose to battle Hitler.

Granted, I am glad that America had Franklin Roosevelt for a Dictator, as opposed to what we could have gotten.

Imzadi> <<Except that all nazi's were protestant, but we'll ignore that for now.>> A lot were, but that was more demographics. I know some of Hitler's own cronies were mystics and I think one had all these Hindu ideas. I also recall Aryan is the top caste in Hinduism. All is too strong a word. Most may be a better choice, but these Protestants were not nice and huggable like Daphne or decent folks like DPH, either.

<<Looks like my GPA will actually go up this semester. Apparently all my ass-kissing paid off. I'll get an A- in structural engineering (instead of the B- I probably deserve) and a B in project management (instead of the F I probably deserve)>> That's like some of my grades. I know three classes that I worried about failing at one point, and the grade in all of them was a B+.

Kaioto> <<Why give it to someone who just wants to do the bare minimum and maximize their profit from it? It was a gift from France to the Entire People of the United States, after all.>> It was a gift from the French and after their insane Revolution. Air lift it and drop it on Paris from above.

<<and urban poor to one extent or another.>> The poor were his biggest supporters, actually. He basically told the poor that instead of trying to make soemthing of yourself, blame the "rich Jews". The first to follow him were the uneducated peasants. Only because of his charisma did the wealthy and educated fall in line.

<<Hilter was born a Jew.>> He was born a Catholic, though Austrians are either Jewish or Catholic, and he did have Jewish ancestry, but his mother was not Jewish. His step-father was part-Jewish and he blamed the Jewish blood of his step-father, like he blamed the Jewish doctor who failed to save his mother. He probably blamed the Jews for the fact that he was a crappy avant-garde artist and if he were born 60 years later, he'd be eligible for NEA grants.

<<You expect me to believe that there were no Atheists, Agnoistics, lapse-Catholics, etc in the Nazi party?>> Don't forget a lot of other weird varieties of religions.

<<That's why I have to consider the whole tax issue when it comes to religion. I would like there to be some measuring stick when it comes to not paying taxes: like the ratio of church income to the amount of money being paid out to its staff. If that ratio works out to for every $2 donated to the church $1 goes to pay for the church staff, then I believe that's not a church, but a thinly vieled business. That rule about not having a certain percentage of income go to personel costs would be apply to charities seeking to avoid paying taxes. I would say that maximum amount should be somewhere around 25% of income going to personel costs. Anything more than that should raise eyebrows. The whole thing amounts to where the money is spent. If a fairly large amount of money goes to a contract with a company, then, yep, those records need to be audited just to make sure that somebody isn't trying to use the organization to supplement his/her income.>> You're right, and in New Orleans the last mayor made some sweet land deals with a few of these smaller churches. Their pastors also live quite well and do little to help the poor in their own Congregation. And that mayor is Catholic, too. If he is to pull dirty land deals with a religion, at least do it for his own ;)

Kaioto> <<Of course, other records also seem to indicate the same man as both Hitler's maternal great-grand father and paternal grandfather. Messy, messy business indeed.>> No wonder his views are so popular among rednecks :)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Hanau
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 04:31:23 PM
IP: 62.104.212.98

Josh: Under the premise that I was indeed misinformed, I did a little looking around.

Turns out Adolf's paternal grandmother gave birth to his father while unwed and the boy took his step-father's name and changed his baptismal records to go after an inheritance at age 39 when both mother and step-father were deceased.

In Adolf's own time, his lineage was challenged by political opponents, reporters, and relatives who tried to blackmail him. He sent his lawyer out to discover the details. Rumors have persisted ever since.

Most of the details in the claims never worked out, but they apparently disturbed Adolf enough to make a law that made him exempt from his own "Final Solution."

Of course, other records also seem to indicate the same man as both Hitler's maternal great-grand father and paternal grandfather. Messy, messy business indeed.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 04:17:23 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

well, don't I feel stupid. Didn't realize that first post went through ::throttles Dis Connect::
Josh
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 04:01:05 PM
IP: 206.170.216.241

Kai: Hitler was not born a jew. This is a lie spread by jewish people to make nazis and other anti-jewish groups feel like hypocrites. But it isn't true.
Josh
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 04:00:09 PM
IP: 206.170.216.241

The Time of the gathering is getting closer.
I used to be excited, but now I'm Wiggy.

How long til I get spazzy?

Dad went into follow up surgery yesterday and is back
He is recovering nicely.

Been doing a lot of webworking

Replies
Todd<<<Demona would respond if she found out about all those humans wanting a life-size soft doll version of her.>>>She wouldn’t be too happy.

Gside<<<That could always change>>>Oh Really<<<Ah. But the real question is, Is that better or worse than being a Gummo?>>>I guess Zeppo sounded cooler.<<<That's up to you to decide.>>>I did<<<Man.>>>I still would need some fuzzy love.

Josh<<<Had to help set up my grandpa's new iMac and teach him how to get online and how to send email.>>>If my Nana can do it so can he.
<<<Yay skinny chicks.>>>I’ll force feed myself If I get too close to going below 100<<<Don't or haven't? Don't knock it till you've tried it ;-) >>>But I would rather give them.<<<That's an excellent idea. What can you pay?>>>Money, chocolate, and sex.<<<What is this "or" word?>>>Well since you are dreaming then the right word would be “and”<<<That's my line.>>>Sorry I couldn’t resist.<<<Are you dead? >>>No I just wondered where everyone was.<<<A man needs a maid. >>>A man needs to get of his lazy butt and do his own chores.

Warpmind<<<And I note that we don't see the lower halves of either Brooklyn or Angela, as they are under the covers…>>>That’s cause I’m lazy.

Lain<<<no.. i somehow i dont think its just you.. :P >>>Thanks for the conformation.

DPH<<<It isn't fair.>>>Eat scallops, or clams, or oysters, or muscles during these warm months.

Greg<<<That grin is quite becoming ;)>>> I knew you would like it.<<<That satisfies me.>>>I’m glad..killing is so messy.<<<The Dark Side is now in your nature.>>>Except when I do my weekly soul cleansing.

Christine<<<but the medicine makes her a little loopy.>>>Can I have some of that medicine?

Aaron<<<I've hit the buffer.>>>Maybe you should post more often? At least once a week. Ell anyways thanks for livening up the place.<<<Well, I can't link it directly to the room, but you could just go to http://mazokupuppet.art-chicks.com/index3.html and look in the "Stoned" directory.>>>The link isn’t working :::crys:::<<<My sympathies>>>Thanks for the hug.<<<Or did I mean to say disturbing?>>>Me thinks you did.<<<We have a client who named his kid Jazzmyn Starr.>>>Poor kid<<<No, no. God made the Heaven and Earth, but the Devil made Texas.>>>No the devil made New Jersey<<<Who comes up with this stuff?>>>The site owner said it came from a friend who was trying to turn a $20 into a paper airplane.<<<Because Demonabot is the ultimate bot! All bots bow to Demonabot! >>>With fake flesh that is close to real?<<<freshman? You have tits the size of my *head* and you're a freshman?!? Freshmen didn't look like that when I was in high school. *Seniors* didn't look like that when I was in high school! WTF?!?)>>>Wow when I was a Freshman my chest was barley a B size. Wait I know it’s a young Godiva in human form.

Patrick>>>Good Joke.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 11:05:56 AM
IP: 64.159.111.82

Imzadi - <They'd like us to believe that.> It's about an attitude of service.

GXB - <i;ve said it before, but if these Churches want to get political power, we should tax them.> I can agree to that one partly. <Again, it comes down to who's morals.> I was talking about the Christian Coalition sticking to issues of morality for Christians. I have no problem with religious groups pointing out

Warpmind - I did that a while back. Never regretted it. < Fair enough. Just so long as you've got your rear end covered.> Are you saying that I need to put a moat around my house?

Green Baron - <Well, it strikes me as the core of your being, though of course, a lot of our life is not an important issue to our faith unless we have very strict faiths.> It is the core part of me and how I like at things. <And the main abusers are a bunch of smaller churches that can buy up land and use their congregation to generate revenue.> That's why I have to consider the whole tax issue when it comes to religion. I would like there to be some measuring stick when it comes to not paying taxes: like the ratio of church income to the amount of money being paid out to its staff. If that ratio works out to for every $2 donated to the church $1 goes to pay for the church staff, then I believe that's not a church, but a thinly vieled business. That rule about not having a certain percentage of income go to personel costs would be apply to charities seeking to avoid paying taxes. I would say that maximum amount should be somewhere around 25% of income going to personel costs. Anything more than that should raise eyebrows. The whole thing amounts to where the money is spent. If a fairly large amount of money goes to a contract with a company, then, yep, those records need to be audited just to make sure that somebody isn't trying to use the organization to supplement his/her income.

Aaron - <And since I can't get people to vote for laws to protect just me, (because it's not in their self-interest to do so) they have to be laws to protect everybody. Score one for self-interest.> Ok, then who would be willing to enforce those laws under said conditions? <"What we call morals is simply blind obedience to words of command." - Havelock Ellis.> I don't know about others, I stopped to work out my faith's moral teachings for myself to rationalize them. So when I attempt to follow them, it's because I believe in them, not because I am blindly following somebody's set of commandments. <a demi-god> Ok, that makes 3 demi-gods in this CR. You, Green Baron, and myself.

Aaron - <Abstinance doesn't work?> What about all of those people who signed "True Love Waits" cards?

DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 11:04:28 AM
IP: 204.94.193.65

Josh: << Are you unaware the property taxes are paid *every* year? >>

Actually, I'm accutely aware that property taxes are paid every year. This is another one of those amusing smoke + mirrors acts tax + spend artists like to pull.

If you continuously tax a property every year, and more property is not purchased through additional investment, then eventually there is no property left to tax. That's a finite resource. If a property generates enough revenue to pay for the taxes on the revenue and the property, then the resource is self-sustaining.

Of course, anything you don't want to charge admission to such as a wildlife preserve is screwed royally, since the land is generally appraised and taxed based on how much the greediest corporation would be willing to pay to take the land and drill for oil / build a skyscraper / pave it for a parking lot.

For a real world example, the Workers' Shrine of Saint Anthony in downtown Boston, were it subject to property tax could never in a Million Years reach break-even status with the most generous of donations. Real Estate in that area has appreciated that much since it was built. Most church property almost inevitably becomes more expensive because better parts of neighborhoods tend to grow up around it.

<< Bullsh*t. I've been taxed every year since my birth, and I'm still here. >>

I'll give you more credit than that, Josh.

First off, you haven't been taxed every year since you were born. You've actually been a Income tax-shield for most of your life as a dependant, a tax-credit. You didn't pay income tax. You didn't pay property tax. You didn't pay excise tax. You didn't pay corporate tax.

You MAY have paid sales-tax depending on where you live, but even then, sales tax isn't an actual tax on the consumer, but a tax on the retailer than they like to pass on to you. THEY are the ones who have to pony up the money to the IRS. Sales tax is not a direct tax on the citizen, but on the business.

So, the statement "I've been taxed since the day I was born." Is, in fact, "horse hockey," as old Sherm Potter would say.

Anyway, you should know better. The quote in question is in reference to the relationship between a taxing body and Institutions, not individuals. Further, if the government were actually bothered enough with you to pass a "Josh tax" they could very easily ruin you.

re: Ownership << What a lovely idea. Too bad it isn't true. >>

Actually, it can very well be true and right, it doesn't mean that it is enforced by the powers that be. Just as a perfectly suitable adoptive family can lose their child forever to a substance-abusive, pyscho of a biological parent because of society's backwards notions of treating children like property.

Horrible idea, too bad it is a fact of life.

Re: Nazi <<Except that all nazi's were protestant, but we'll ignore that for now.>>

Well, actually, that statement is an outright lie.

You expect me to believe that there were no Atheists, Agnoistics, lapse-Catholics, etc in the Nazi party?

Please. People of Protestant descent as a group were convienently left off the death-camp rolls in order to have Someone left to run the army and the factories. Those who actually participated in the Nazi movement didn't practice their inherited religion. They were too busy at book-burnings to attend Church and too busy reading Mein Kampf to bother with a Bible.

Beyond that, where was the state-run Protestant religion when the facist dictatorship rose to power? Nowhere, because Hitler and his cronies were happily moving to create an Atheist police state in their own image. Hilter and his buddies didn't have time for religion. They were by and large utterly Godless folk no matter what petty lip-service they paid for the cameras. Heck, Hilter was born a Jew.

Practicing, protesting Protestants were gathered up quietly and exterminated or disenfranchised as just another minority. Just like the Catholics, Jews, Gypsies, communists, and urban poor to one extent or another.

Stalin was also another sterling example of someone who made it his life's work to create a "perfect" society with his own Atheist police state. His work speaks for itself. Not that bad a fellow, I guess. He was getting rid of religion, after all. :P

Gside: Re: Tourist Income

Probably true, but who would dedicate the most of those resources to inproving the facility and making it the best national landmark it can be? There is always room for improvement in care-taking and services for tourist sites. Why give it to someone who just wants to do the bare minimum and maximize their profit from it? It was a gift from France to the Entire People of the United States, after all.

Warpmind: <<Sterling Silver>>

Isn't that the title of a Christine Morgan fan-fic?
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:48:02 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

*Warpmind strolls in, glancing briefly at the CR.*
Holy... That's a LOT of orange... Is Doug back, or something? *Looks closer* Oh, no... It's Aaron. Welcome back, man.

On another topic, I discovered something amusing yestereve. I have an Illuminati ring, which was originally an ordinary Illuminati pin with a faulty locking mechanism (darn thing almost fell off several times), that I handed in to a jeweller's store for a conversion. What I just discovered is... the ring is Sterling Silver. Now to see how many actually get that reference. :)

Green Baron: Pun, not joke. And yes, I'd guess you missed it. :p

Aaron: How much better warnings did you need? For the future, remember that I subtly understate horrors, having seen so many things far worse. };) As for waking you up with a hairball on your chest... I *do* hope that's a cat you're talking about still... };) Where the jailbait is concerned, you should visit Norway someday. I swear to whatever deities might be listening, I don't think there's ANY girl in the country who uses LESS than a C-cup anymore, after she's done with the training bras. (Obviously, this means that the training works exceedingly well...) }:)

metaldemon: Actually, even abstinence isn't 100% safe. There is ALWAYS the risk of cutting yourself on an infected edge, getting a bad blood transfusion, or ANY kind of accidents involving severed/opened blood vessels... Still, abstinence is the best safety measure to date...

Josh: Actually, if you would just try Geneforge - it DOES have a Mac version, so you don't have THAT excuse to refuse - you might see why I decided it was worth it. :) As for the armpit - good place to check for body heat. As for erogenous zone... Only when treated properly. You'd be AMAZED at how many soft patches of skin have that effect. }:)

Gside: You got it. On both topics. Have a cookie. ;)

Well, that about concludes this post. Later, guys'n'gals.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 06:11:37 AM
IP: 193.217.212.164

Imzadi> <>: I believe they mean don't trust it's weight to only one clothesline.
<>: Only if you have a video tuner card. Otherwise ithe playboy channel only works with your TV, leaving only broadband on your monitor.
<<Do I get some?>>: Yes, but you don't control quality. Or gender.
<<Do you pay for its upkeep?>>: I don't believe so.

Warpmind> <<she sometimes needs to use the computer AND phone at the same time>>: And since Ahasverus is not internet ready, you can't get a computer away from a phone.
<<Even if it means I'll have to record it myself>>: Well, you do want to make the player cringe in terror of the bad guy.

Toku Kai> <<Give the thing to whoever is willing to actually pay the most to upkeep it, make it secure, and maintain a functional ferry dock to and from>>: I'd think the tourist income would pay for the thing.

Aaron> <<Ah think ya do, Alex>>: Buck Futter!
<>: It is good to see that you know your place.
<>: Nor do I. Perhaps is you ate more bran.
<<you wouldn't happen to have any Reel Big Fish, would you?>>: Sorry.
<<the one with the "aaaaaaaaaaaand we'll drink an' drink an' drink an' drink an' drink an' drink and FIGHT!" chorus>>: But I might pick it up for the drunken violence.
<<Because that wasn't Dylan>>: Well, that was Dylan's version. Ir is very easy to tell which version is Dylan's.
<<A great deal of sense, actually>>: Right. There's a benefit to species who enjoy procreating. But as humans, we've built up a whole buch of funky extra stuff around it.
<<Don't forget Sinfest, PVP (So you can see why nobody likes Scott Kurtz), Angst Technology, RPGWorld, Strangecandy, Adventurers!, Ashfield Online, and, of course, College Roomies from Hell>>: I'd say Sinfest, OO, and ? aren't as much required reading, amusing as they are. But you should visit the Sinfest archives at least once to see what everyone means when they talk about it.
<<if you're looking for a sprite comic, Brainstorms (http://www.twogargs.com/~brainstorms/) is drawn by an ex-denizen of this room, Amy K. Cyrway>>: But it is admitedly completely inspired by B&G.
<<"(I like) Little Girls" for the child pr0n debate, or "Only a Lad" for the why kids are so screw up debate?>>: Little Girls. I'm in it for the porn.
<>: Only one a in Khrima.
<<Who is that anyway?>>: Edward A. Murphy, Jr. He was involved in USAF project MX981.
<<I'd rather have forty sluts, personally>>: But you get to have the fun of transforming them. And you also get to start the process over again any time you want.
<<And pretty soon, you'll be just like FS and me>>: But no one could be like me.

I'll get to Aaron's second and everything after that tomorrow.

Na zdorov'ya.

Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 02:27:51 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Semi-productive day today. Dentist appointment, massage, scheduled other stuff for later in the week, etc. And most of my laundry is done for my trip back up on Saturday! That was a lot of dirty clothes.

A man needs a maid.

Looks like my GPA will actually go up this semester. Apparently all my ass-kissing paid off. I'll get an A- in structural engineering (instead of the B- I probably deserve) and a B in project management (instead of the F I probably deserve).

Warpmind: <>: Sorry to hear that. <<Slips two fingers into Spacebabie's armpit>>: Do I really want to know? Is the armpit an erogenous zone I was previously unaware of? <<Just so long as you've got your rear end covered>>: Then we can ship him off to prison safe and sound. <<you claim the medicine makes her a little loopy? How can you tell?>>: She starts playing with barbies. <>: I don't want to know. <>: I REALLY don't want to know. <<Mom occasionally needs to use the computer corner as an office>>: I first read that as "orifice". I was thinking "how the hell does a computer make an orifice?" <<she sometimes needs to use the computer AND phone at the same time>>: Get broadband. And share it.

Mooncat: <<take a few "me" moments to keep your head together>>: Why would she want that?

Kaioto: <<creates its own order of forced morality over the citizenry>>: On the contrary, it imposes no morality whatsoever, or rather the only moral code left is the one of the guy who kills everyone. <<Suddenly taxing that static property is a good quick fix for the IRS, but it doesn't do the rest of the world much good>>: Are you unaware the property taxes are paid *every* year? <<The power to tax is the power to destroy.>>: Bullsh*t. I've been taxed every year since my birth, and I'm still here. <<Ownership is a matter of responsibility first, pride and power second>>: What a lovely idea. Too bad it isn't true. <<for people who don't like religion to avoid having to clean their own houses>>: ?! My house is clean. <<He created a legion of willing accomplices without the benefit of a religion>>: Except that all nazi's were protestant, but we'll ignore that for now. <<groups of dumb people are extremely dangerous and happy about it.>>: Pretty much the philosophy on which I live my life. <<you can't be absolved from the responsibility of using your own judgment and listening to your own conscience>>: And yet, we keep letting people do just that.

Green Baron: <<hands down, Al Pacino is the starring role>>: Um, der. <>: "Hehe. Boobs." <<Geeting up at 5:30 am on Saturday>>: It sucks on ANY day.

Aaron: <<As for your in-laws... Have you considered eloping>>: In-Laws. Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em in the kneecaps without going to jail. <<if you don't vote you don't get to b!tch>>: That's so silly. Not voting can be a vote too. Besides, if you vote then this whole thing is your fault. <<Ah think ya do, Alex>>: BUCKFUTTER! <<Is that because he's not tainted by porn?>>: I think its because he'd let SJ slide on even more stuff than you guys do. <<does it seem like a cruel joke to give the Jews a homeland surrounded by people who hate them?>>: There is no place they could be put that would not be pissed at them. Even here. <<Maybe he thought you said "strategiary.">>: No, I read her right. I still don't think that's a real word. <<If you look like me, it was as easy as blinking. Easier, in fact>>: Yup! <<So it'll never happen>>: Good. That means it won't interrupt all my shows! <<Which makes me wonder exactly how much of the archive, percentage-wise, is Doug's>>: Too much. <<since I can't get people to vote for laws to protect just me, (because it's not in their self-interest to do so>>: Threaten to kill them until they make laws that say its okay to kill them 8-) <<What else do you learn from your mistakes, if not that failure sucks?>>: If you're good you learn how not to repeat them. <<As opposed to having us killed elsewhere?>>: You aren't included. You have distinguishable features. Lots of them. <<TPB>>: TPB for my bunghole?! <>: Kinky. <<Your kung fu is the best>>: I doubt it. <>: Added geekery. <<A great deal of sense, actually>>: Only if done right. <<A chronic addiction, or an addiction to chronic?>>: The former, since he doesn't do drugs. <<What exactly, in my statement, prompted that>>: Like I remember. <<I'm not legally old enough, for one thing. Plus I don't have daddy's oil money and name recognition. But other then that, what's he got that I ain't got?>>: Made up words. No, wait. You said "ain't". Run for it. <<Did you ever have a chance to read the books? I remember you said you were going to>>: Not sure which books, but the answer is probably "not yet, hopefully this summer". <<maybe you're not into anime enough to enjoy it>>: Seems reasonable. <<Perhaps the Jetta-buying demographic is a bit different outside of Texas>>: Who drives them in your state? <>: And yet you'd be surprised at how many people don't. <<Where's your car, dude?>>: Behind the other car. <<Kinky>>: Or just gory. Not sure which. <>: Really? Even there? <<Once again, Josh says something I wish I'd thought of>>: Woohoo! Why do you wish you'd thought of that? <<True enough, but Jan's not *in* Texas>>: South. Texas. Same thing. <<I'm sure you'll show us the same warmth and support you've given Jen and Siryn>>: Don't hold your breath 8-) <<Who is that anyway?>>: Murphy. of Murphy's Laws. More need not be said. <<Because we're not a democracy>>: Then why aren't we? <<Certainly made me what I am today>>: Made us all what we are today, and nothing will convince me that I shouldn't have gone, torturous as it was. <<Isn't that the same thing?>>: I'll tell you after I decide if I'm going to Law school or not. <<Not a very good one, I admit>>: Or just not a present one. <<with the original green death flavor>>: I always use the red one. <<I'd rather have forty sluts, personally>>: Only if they're clean sluts. <<You're right, those are even more important>>: Thought so. <<is that because we're apathetic, or because nobody ever campaigns to attract our votes>>: Both. <>: Wow. Your vote is almost as worthless as an uninformed vote. <>: Exactly my point 8-) <<Blame me. The second choice was Ursula.>>: I pity your children. <<Or anyone who doesn't want to look like a wookie>>: I don't want to look like a wookie, yet I don't wax. <<Is that better or worse then coming up as Regis Philbin?>>: No idea. <<What's wrong with Loki Harris Cordova?>>: The name. <<Which is probably good, else none of my shirts would fit>>: "But you grew some nice boobs" <<best theatrically released Star Wars movie since ESB>>: Yeah, probably. <<Long lost heir, magical weapon, guided by a wise old man who can also kick a fair bit of @$$, tries to sleep with his sister>>: Yup, Oddessey. <>: Who? <>: Nope. Some chicks can be feminine without being psychos. Hard to find, though. <<In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is stoned to death>>: Not likely, since they can't see him to aim. <<Only if it lands on you from a great height>>: Or hits you. <<Thank you. That made my day.>>: My pleasure. <<Then it would depend on who my choice of "targets" were>>: True. I'd rather kill some people than screw others. On the other hand, I wouldn't pass up screwing certain people. <<We already did.>>: Then it wasn't much of a secret, was it? <<God made the Heaven and Earth, but the Devil made Texas>>: And detroit. <<Because Demonabot is the ultimate bot>>: I'm still not sure which I'd rather have. <<sadonecrobestiality is specifically banned in the revised CR guidelines>>: Sure, that gets the attention of the admins. <>: And this explains how you ended up in drag for the costume party at G2k1. <>: I don't think I'm the asshole king and I don't care much about natalie portman. <>: And doing better, I presume. <<What we call morals is simply blind obedience to words of command>>: I don't know if I agree with that. <<It's home to a "candy factory" which many believe to be the base for Israel's nuclear program>>: Stay away from the truffles. <<he's Solo and I'm So-slow>>: He's not very funny. <<Damn, that is a big gun>>: Roughly the diameter of a battleship, I'd assume. <>: "Betcha can't eat just one"? <>: She loves it. <<Ask if she'll share>>: You're already a little loopy. <<pretty soon, you'll be just like FS and me>>: The final step is to go cold turkey like I did. <<who's outside influences don't include an invisible man who watches us all>>: I wonder if that's some sort of perverse exhibitionism thing. <<you can't spell believe without "lie" in the middle>>: Thanks! I'll remember that one. <<A beautiful woman dances naked in front of me. I can't touch her. She can't touch me. I can't touch myself.... And I have to give her all my money? That must be what Hell is like>>: AMEN! Either that or divorce 8-) <<seems like that could really mess you up.>>: I think that's the idea. <<Think 971 Demona meeting 1995 Demona>>: Isn't that what happened? <<Sata annoys me to no end being the other>>: Why? <<Which I thought would be the worst thing about the new Star Wars movies. Until I saw Episode One>>: I hope three is horrifically dark. <<Evil Dead/Army of Darkness trilogy>>: Woohoo! A great trilogy. <<a religion that actually *gives* you something for your money. I think they should reinstate temple prostitution>>: Especially in synogauges. I'd love to pay good money to really degrade those obnoxious J.A.P.'s <<Mine woke me up on Saturday trying to have a hairball on my chest>>: How cute. <<I'd much rather live in Intercourse then it's neighbor, Blue Balls.>>: I don't think I could live in either without busting up every time I saw a piece of mail. <<As far as you know, the outdoors still exists?>>: Forgive him, he's an engineer. <<Maybe it's time to get out of that cubicle, dude>>: Maybe? <<Gargoyles/OZ cross-over>>: OZ the prison show? <<I'd rather think about being inside a box, personally>>: Amen! <<Which I would win>>: I dunno. You may spend more frivolously, but I think I have larger cash reserves. <<that's because abstinence *doesn't* work>>: Actually, abstinence is fool proof. Its' teaching it that doesn't work. <<the sign of the aardvark>>: Is this a texas thing? <<Fortunately I'm no ordinary human>>: Are you a priest? <<And the onslaught of orange continues>>: Could be a worse color. Like that dark blue that's impossible to read. <<it's exactly that kind of attitude that keeps sci-fi from being recognized as a legitimate fictional genre>>: Who doesn't recognize it? <<You know Hahn Solo>>: You may even be able to spell his seven letter name. <<how did Lucas reward all the people who've made him a gazillionaire? Jar Jar f**king Binks! That's the worst case of fan rape I've ever seen>>: I agree. <<that is why Lucas is in desperate need of redemption.>>: A redemption that is never coming. Apparently, he thinks Jar Jar was a brilliant idea and was shocked at the fan reaction to him. He's also patting himself on the back over the last two films and thinks he's just brilliant. That man is off in his own little world where everything he does is right and everyone will love it no matter what. Kind of like Bill Gates. <<By US law, accessories to a crime face the same sentence as those who committed the crime>>: Are you sure? <<Wasn't that B-1 Bob's plan?>>: It's the plan of every rich white person in Los Angeles, I can tell you that. <<sow the land with salt>>: That takes a lot of salt. Why don't we just give it to someone else? <<the fact that there is no comparison between the victims of the holocaust and a fate the Palestinians have brought on themselves>>: Truly a minor detail 8-) <<if the rains come and they drown, it's not the rain's fault, is it?>>: It is if you're a democrat at Berkeley. <<It's also the fastest-growing religion in the world>>: Damn breeders. Where are those irish catholics when we need them!? <<Talk is cheap, ideals are pretty, but history is about *results*>>: Thank you! You are so right. <>: You're not fat. <<We don't even live in the same *reality*>>: Is this like that star trek episode where worf bounces around quantum universes? <<If America is to survive into the 21st century, we might look to take a few pointers from Israel>>: We might...I think its fair to worry that we'd lose a lot of the freedoms we take for granted if we're not careful. <<Some things, like survival, are beyond morality.>>: Yes it is. And beyond the first amendment, too. <<I'm tired of all this jailbait that doesn't look like jailbait>>: You and my roommate should hang out. <<You have tits the size of my *head* and you're a freshman?!? Freshmen didn't look like that when I was in high school. *Seniors* didn't look like that when I was in high school! WTF?>>: I hear you. All through high school I thought the hottest chick there was two years younger than me. That wasn't right. <<Please just get out of my car, and don't lie and tell the cop I touched you>>: Boy would you have been in trouble. <<she didn't even say thank you>>: No good deed goes unpunished. <<I'm not giving up my right to watch A Clockwork Orange just because you're a crappy parent>>: Apparently you are. <<my mom swears I drive like I do because she let me watch Dukes of Hazzard as a child>>: I watched star trek. I don't think it affects my driving ability. <<I'm just not a very responsible person, and I encourage irresponsibility in others>>: Remind me not to hang with you until I graduate. <<If I was a horrible affliction I'd be... syphilis>>: Better tell mara now. <<what's your (nerd)sign>>: Water cooler. <<probably manage to piss you and Moochie off at the same time>>: Like that's so hrad. <<who's got a bigger stick?>>: Ron Jeremy. <<Notice a theme?>>: Jerry Falwell blaming them all on someone else? <<Religion is romanticism taken to the next level>>: I fail to see any evidence to back this claim, or any explanation for that matter. Just because religion is not pragmatic doesn't make it super-romanticism. <<The God of the Murphiest religion has a lot in common with Eric Cartman>>: Now THAT is the scariest thing I've heard all day. <<nobody ever had a sexual fantasy about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed as a liberal>>: What does that have to do with his first sentence?

Metaldemon: <<Abstinance doesn't work?! Who fed you that lie?>>: I don't think that's what he meant. <<if it doesn't work, then why is that I don't have AIDS or HIV like a lot of gay men>>: No, but it might explain why you aren't pregnant ;-)

Impfac: <<You guys>>: We think you're ugly too. <<Or that they designed the stealth bomber?>>: This is a vicious lie. The nazis were the first to experiment with "flying wing" aircraft. The stealth bomber happens to operate on the same principle. However, german's flying wing concepts (which were all small fighter aircraft and look nothing like our stealth fighters) had no reduced radar signature over other aircraft. Just because the aircraft look similar doesn't mean anything. There is no comparison between the two. Northrop desgined the stealth bomber. The real predecessor of bomber-sized flying wing aircraft is actually the YB-49, if I recall correctly. <<Or that by 1946 they’d have guided air to air misses>>: This is also a rumor. Since they weren't around in 1946, we don't know what they would have had. Guiding an air to air missile is very difficult, which is why it took everyone so long to do it. Germany had a lot of firsts in the air wars, but their inability to bring in everything when it was needed cost them the war. We weren't gonna sit around with our thumb up our butts while they developed nuclear weapons either. <<McCarthy was right>>: No, he was insane. <<those schools that have used abstinence based programs have had overwhelmingly positive results, or so I’ve been told>>: Oh, that's a wonderful argument. Or not. <<I’ve also been told many of times-even shown personally in terrifying experience-how deadly my driving is. Do I slow down? Ha>>: Same here!

Patrick Toman: <<He never encouraged anyone to strap a bomb to their chest and blow up a busload of schoolkids by promising them 72 virgins would be waiting for them in heaven>>: Maybe he did and the idiot follower who passed down his story left out that part 8-) <>: HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Gunjack: <<I'd rather live in a world nuked by Hitler, than one raped by Stalin.>>: Well isn't that a happy thought!

Dude, straws. Real men shouldn't be sucking on things.
-Rocky Teruya

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Encino, CA, US of A
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 02:06:38 AM
IP: 206.170.216.194

Aaron - To sum up... Hitler recognized the concept of innocence. Stalin did not. You tell me which is more irrational.
Val
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:54:31 AM
IP: 172.173.89.139

yup, I'm a dumb bugger... but I can't resist.

Aaron><<Who was more dangerous? Hitler or Stalin?>> in the words of the Sewer Urchin, "Stalin. Definately Stalin."

Hitler was irrational, and Stalin was a pragmatist... But the machines they created were just the reverse. Hitler's police and gaurds were after specific people; ie partisans, Jews, and so forth. They were basicly the same as any other police, except for the choice of targets.
Stalin's Chekists, however, were insane. They HAD no enemies, so they made them up. The Chekist system had more in common with a theatrical studio then a security organization. They invented crimes, and then grabbed people at random to play the perpetrator in a staged trial. Cooperation was ensured by systematic torture, and the victim either shot or sent to die in Siberia.

Stalin killed more people, in Russia alone, than Hitler ever dreamed of. He exported his horror to multiple other countries, and continued to mantain the system decades after Hitler's corpse rotted away.

But here's the core. If you are killed by a Nazi, it's most likely because of either who you are or what you've done... And the death, in all likelyhood, will be relatively swift.
If you're killed by a chekist, it's for NO REASON AT ALL. Regardless, you will be tortured beyond comprehension until you willingly accept the blame for something you never did, and then your broken shell will be shipped off to a remote location, where over the course of DECADES the little that is left of the person you once were will be ground away by torture, starvation, and degredation of every kind.

Personally, I'd take the Nazis.

If hitler had had nukes, he would have used them. But I'd rather live in a world nuked by Hitler, than one raped by Stalin.

No more tonight; the discourse depresses me.
Valentine
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:48:19 AM
IP: 172.173.89.139

Not even going to contemplate that monster tonight... Way too tired.

Out of curiosity, who's heading to Akon? Aaron and Mara, right? MD might be hangin with the skinny man and I... but who else?

yeesh... and I still gotta make my holsters and the Man's Roshi beard. Looong two days ahead, methinks...

Peace!
Gunjack Valentine
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 11:44:14 PM
IP: 172.173.89.139

Last post before AKON

Aaron<<Make her put it on the web and provide a link please.>> Well, I can't link it directly to the room, but you could just go to http://mazokupuppet.art-chicks.com/index3.html and look in the "Stoned" directory. You'll know it when you see it.

*Sigh* Actually, my website is down for the time being, since I want to redo it, pretty and flashy and artsy, for the new artchicks.org server. (All I want is to do right by my darling Jen, who has so generously kept my on her site for over a year, and brought me along for the move. Jen- I owe you pretty naked men, what say?)

So, what exactly is the pic, I can email it....

Aaron::: On Kids and the media

Have I made mention enough of how much I love you?
Shinigami
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:53:55 PM
IP: 172.144.140.56

Impfac > I think I'll stick with Jesus... and one of the big reasons why is because He never encouraged anyone to strap a bomb to their chest and blow up a busload of schoolkids by promising them 72 virgins would be waiting for them in heaven.

And with that said, an in the interest of being non-PC... I present this little joke I stumbled upon:

* * * * *

After getting nailed by a Daisy Cutter, Osama made his way to the pearly gates. There, he is greeted by George Washington.

"How dare you attack the nation I helped conceive!" yells Mr. Washington, slapping Osama in the face.

Patrick Henry comes up from behind. "You wanted to end the Americans' liberty, so they gave you death!" Henry punches Osama on the nose.

James Madison comes up next, and says, "This is why I allowed the Federal government to provide for the common defense!" He drops a large weight on Osama's knee.

Osama is subject to similar beatings from John Randolph of Roanoke, James Monroe, and 65 other people who have the same love for liberty and America.

As he writhes on the ground, Thomas Jefferson picks him up to hurl him back toward the gate where he is to be judged.

As Osama awaits his journey to his final very hot destination, he
screams, "This is not what I was promised!"

An angel replies "I told you there would be 72 "Virginians" waiting for you, dumbass. What did you think I said?"
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:17:57 PM
IP: 67.38.249.235

Well, a few replies:
<Who was more dangerous? Hitler or Stalin?>

Well... Stalin planned the conquest of Europe, and eventually the world. He also viewed a war with capitalism as ‘inevitable.’ Hitler on the other hand allowed his passions to rule him (invading Russia when it wasn’t in his interest, but advanced his race war, for example) and Hitler was unable to accept his own fallibility. Stalin was at least rational enough to step aside and allow his generals to take command.

Stalin was more dangerous-but less evil-than Hitler. Did you know the Nazi’s once flew a jet bomber from Europe to New York and back in the 1940's? Or that they designed the stealth bomber? Or that by 1946 they’d have guided air to air misses? Always interesting, to me. I simply adore a vicious dictatorship and a titanic war ^_^ Yummy!

Stalin also did well in getting communists into important positions in the US throughout the 1930's-40's, and built a spy network the US is STILL just finding out about. His communists agents were able to slaughter thousands. Vital intelligence was sabotaged by communists spies in the Korean war, costing American’s their lives. McCarthy was right.

Who would I rather rule the world? Cuddly as he is, not Hitler. His murderous vision is far more vicious and vast than Stalin’s. And Stalin was older.

MetalD> let's not forget G-d exiled the Jews from the Holy Land>>

Further proof there either is no god, or he is utterly irrelevant. Who are you to enforce god’s will and judgement? We have every RIGHT to the holy land. God doesn’t matter, man’s deeds do. What happened to all that forgiveness crap? Conveniently forgotten?

To put it simply: THE BIBLE DOES NOT MATTER. We should support Israel, regardless of what whomever wrote the mediocre book says.

Me, all take Allah over Jesus any day ~_^

Aaron> Maybe that's because abstinence *doesn't* work.>>>

How do you know? Has it ever been tried? Most of the people *I* know who are abstaining don’t have unwanted kids or STD’s. Funny how well this utterly defunct idea works, eh? Besides, those schools that have used abstinence based programs have had overwhelmingly positive results, or so I’ve been told.

Then again, I know the risks and have decided them worth it, or that at least I could care less about my health, well being, and life. I’ve also been told many of times-even shown personally in terrifying experience-how deadly my driving is. Do I slow down? Ha!

My point-education doesn’t matter if people don’t take personal responsibility.

impfac - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 09:57:17 PM
IP: 66.66.203.129

Christine> Sorry to hear it. What doesn’t kill her, of course, although I’m sure it’s not exactly loads of fun to watch your child suffer. BTW, what job do you have? You seem to keep weird hours...

Haven’t been around in a long time, and don’t particularly plan to come back. You guys... *shakes head* Plus, being back home without internet at my fingertips (but more like arms length). Oh well. I’m just dying to get out of here. All my parents do, aside from bother me, is fight about me, which is pretty much what they’ve done for their 15 years. Gah. No place like home, I hope.

Imperial Fascism Lite: Half the fat, all the oppression.
Impfac - [impfac@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 09:37:59 PM
IP: 66.66.203.129

*forgot*
Aaron> Also, your critisizing the *institutions*. I might add, sorry Green Barron, that these institutions are often more interested in getting people to follow THEIR STRUCTURE, rather than just the Bible. This is why I like Leo Tolstoy, because he spoke against religious institutions and wanted to get back to first century Christianity.
Just don't base your religious views over the actions of it's followers. The followers can never be perfect in tehir religious code. Read teh scripture..that's what saved me from being an Atheist.
metaldemon
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 09:06:16 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

aaron> Abstinance doesn't work?! Who fed you that lie? Well if it doesn't work, then why is that I don't have AIDS or HIV like a lot of gay men (and I might add, that more heterosexuals have AIDS and HIV that Homosexuals)? Is it becuase I don't sleep with whatever moves? Is it becasue I've stayed zipped up when there were opporutnities for me to get some? I think so. I've managed to stay abstinant my whole life, and God knows I am horny as hell ;) Yet I will NOT risk my life or my health over gettin' laid.

And as for your perception of religion> If you're gonna trash a religion, read it's Scripture. Falwell and co. aren't really that good of a representation of what Christianity is about (love of enemies, mercy, generosity, forgiveness).
metaldemon
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 08:57:37 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Aaron >>

Nice post.

A few points, however:

I wouldn't put anyone's reputation behind the Misanthropic Bitch articles. Considering it was 100% story-driven with no actual evidence laced with assumptions it could pass for entertainment and barely miss the cut-off for actual intellectual discourse. Of course, that means it would be perfect to fit right into page 5 of the city newspaper or the 6:23 slot on NBC News. :)

Religion isn't the source of the world's problems, it is an excuse. Just like blaming religion for the world's problems is an excuse for people who don't like religion to avoid having to clean their own houses. It is a cute way to try and avoid the bigger issue of just how damn evil people can be on their own.

Your example of Hitler is well-placed. Hitler had no fear of God, nor Man, nor the future. He believed only in his own power, his own goals, and his own vision. He created a legion of willing accomplices without the benefit of a religion. What it comes down to is this:

Fanatics don't need religion, they'll just take any excuse they can get. Palestinians and Jews will violate each other until Kingdom Come no matter what happens to their religions, because it isn't about religion, it is about money, power, land, paranoia, and revenge.

Evil people will steal, rape, and murder any chance they can get. When they get into a group, it just looks like it will be easier to participate without getting caught or punished. If you can use some sort of bizzaro-logic to try and rationalize away the moral responsibility and dehumanize your victims, it is a big bonus.

People have done it for years in the name of Science just as much as religion. Whites in America had all sorts of science "facts" that were lined up to prove that African Americans were in some way inferior and Needed to be enslaved. All manner of bizzare "social science" theories have been used to justify the conquest and assimilation of other cultures.

When religion isn't available, this startlingly large population of marrow-suckers will find any other excuse. What Marx was on to is this:

"Group-think can make people dumb, and groups of dumb people are extremely dangerous and happy about it."

Religion is almost always involves group-think, which is dangerous. Of course, so does science, education, government, and most forms of social interaction. The trick is to remind people that even though they function as part of one or more groups, they are individuals that have to be accountable for their own individual actions. Consequently, you can't be absolved from the responsibility of using your own judgment and listening to your own conscience.

But selfish leaders who need followers seldom bring that little detail up, they are just looking for the next score and the next useful excuse they can have to hold power a little while longer. They'll abuse any organization from public education to a sacred religion to do it, too.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 08:52:48 PM
IP: 66.31.222.137

aaron>> good LORD man, my eyes are glazing over just THINKING about reading that post..
*faint*
lain
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 07:36:43 PM
IP: 65.92.89.151

And the onslaught of orange continues...

Stephen> <<And just for my 2-bits on this, for everyone expecting for Lucas to redeem himself after what appears to be a "slump" in his writing for these two films... Get over it. You don't go to a movie like Star Wars to expect Shakespearian Theatrical Level writing... It's SCI-FI! It's meant to be escapism, and fun! You don't go to a flim like this to psychoanalyze it, or pick apart every little nuance or foible of every character or scene. You go in, buy a soda, popcorn and your ticket, and then you sit back and enjoy it!>> Mara was kind enough to post most of my thoughts on this already, but I have a few more things to say. First off, it's exactly that kind of attitude that keeps sci-fi from being recognized as a legitimate fictional genre. Second, Star Wars is embedded in our collective consciousness. Even if you've never seen the movies, (And I suppose there must be people like this) you know who Luke Skywalker is. You know Hahn Solo. Leia, Chewie, R2, 3PO, are all embedded in our collective consciousness. Star Trek may always have a cachet of geekiness attached to it, but everybody knows Star Wars. Yes, the effects were revolutionary at the time. But even twenty-five years later, when they're starting to look cheesy, the story, and the performances of the cast still shine. When I think of how much the original trilogy means to so many people, people who waited for so long... People like my brother who waited their *entire lives* for the second trilogy to come out, and were so filled hope and joy, sitting in that theater on opening night... And how did Lucas reward all the people who've made him a gazillionaire? Jar Jar f**king Binks! That's the worst case of fan rape I've ever seen, and I'm an Evangelion fan. And that is why Lucas is in desperate need of redemption.

Archwolf> <<Unfortunatly, I'm having some issues with getting my characters to do what i want.>> Oh. I gave up on that a looooong time ago. Now I just ask them not to cause more trouble then I can deal with.

Spike> You were reading Goblet of Fire over the weekend too? Weirdness. I want the next book already. I've read the first four like five times now, and I want a new one.

Moochie> Re: Israel A.K.A. the topic we're all sick of but it just won't go away> <<Yesterday's highlight was when they pelted a group of british and american reporters with flash/bang grenades and rubber bullets.>> Oh, the journalists probably loved it. It gave them a story and made them feel like they were part of the action to boot.

<<Or do you think that merely sympathizing with the terrorists is enough to justify killing a civilian who has never fired a rifle or set a bomb?>> Depends. Did they knowingly give comfort to terrorists? Money? Shelter? Support of any kind? Then yes. By US law, accessories to a crime face the same sentence as those who committed the crime.

<<Does that mean that it would be justifiable to, say, toss all hispanics in California in the clink for a year or so?>> Wasn't that B-1 Bob's plan? ;)

<<You were wanting to argue that all palestinians and the majority of arabs are inhuman beasts who deserve nothing but swift death?>> Well, when you put it like that... Yeah. Kill the men, sell the women and children into bondage, and sow the land with salt. Quothe Spider Jerusalem, "Being a bastard *works*."

<<Juxtaposed with your next sentence, this forms a veritable *irony sandwich*.>> Only if you ignore the phrase "I do not condemn them for their race or ethnicity, but for their actions. Because of them they are utterly without redemption." from SJ post. And the fact that there is no comparison between the victims of the holocaust and a fate the Palestinians have brought on themselves.

<<This explanation covers the gift of the land to Israel, but it does nothing to answer the accusations of Israeli oppression.>> Except, perhaps, why the Jews have a right to defend themselves, and their land?

<<The Jews were slaughtered unjustly, but that does NOT give them the right to slaughter others unjustly without repercussions.>> Perhaps we have different definitions of unjust.

<<<<When Israel opened for business in 1948, there was a soverign Palestinian state right next door. But that wasn't good enough for the Arabs, so they attacked Israel the day after the UN pulled out. The result? Israel doubles in size.>> Again, a perfectly valid arguement for why the Israelis own the land they do. And again, it does nothing to justify the way they have treated the inhabitants. When the allies captured germany in WWII, the germans probably didn't like them much. That doesn't mean that it would have been alright to shoot a few for kicks.>> Actually, I think we should have been harsher to the German people then we did, but that's neither here nor there. The point is that the Palestinians are in a hole they dug themselves, and if the rains come and they drown, it's not the rain's fault, is it?

<<<<Fourth, SJ was right when he said it isn't about the land. It's about the fact that *Jews* have the land.>> This may be true, but you offer NO evidence to support your assertion. Repeat after me: "evidence is a GOOD thing!">> Moochie, there are times when you sound like an enormously condescending prick. As for evidence, how ‘bout that "Kill all the Jews wherever they are" thing SJ mentioned?

<<<<Fifth, Islam, despite my Libyan Pol-Sci 1053 teacher's claims to the contrary, is a violent religion, spread by fire and the sword.>> I happen to agree, but what does this have to do with the issue at hand? Or are you backing up SJ's statement that muslims should be "eliminated" and that the earth must be "scoured of their presence"?>> Obviously, not *all* Muslims are evil. But you must admit that a startling number of them seem Hell-bent on our destruction. I think we need to be a little less PC, and start facing that. Islam is stronger then nationalism. It's also the fastest-growing religion in the world, and I think we need to start acting with some reasonable suspicion towards it.

<<<<Sixth, when it comes to Jerusalem, and the control thereof, one of the major sticking points in this conflict, the Arabs don't have a leg to stand on. Jerusalem isn't sacred to Islam and it never has been.>> ...Which is why the Dome of the Rock Mosque is there? *shrugs*>> Because the Muslims *built* it there, after some dodgy interpretation of the Koran. Ask GB is he still has the relevant article to that effect. If not, I've still got it saved somewhere.

<<<<Tired of getting shelled for harboring terrorists? Stop harboring them. Simple equation.>> Picked this sentence, because it seems to be the core of the point. In essence, you're saying that since the palestinians all agree with the POV of the terrorists, they should all be TREATED like
terrorists? Am I correct?>> I'm saying that the Palestinians need to quit supporting terrorists, and work with international authorities to bring them to justice. (I love that word. It's a total abstraction that we're not going to find in this world or any other, but still we obsess over it so) If the Palestinians aren't willing to play ball, they can accept the consequences.

<<If so, this is not only a flagrant violation of justice,>> Ah, there's that word again...

<<but also an extremely inefficient strategy.>> Show me a better one.

<<What you are describing is a reprisal, not a counterterror operation. A reprisal is the killing of a third party to demoralize your enemy, and is DEFINAELY a terror tactic. Incidentally, reprisals were noted characteristics of the Nazi occupation force in France during WWII, and of the Veit Cong in South Vietnam.>> Remind me, I'm not all that good at history, but... Didn't the Viet Cong *win*? If terror cannot be defeated by conventional means, and, since losing isn't really an option for the Israelis... Proven tactics, amigo. Talk is cheap, ideals are pretty, but history is about *results*.

<<I attacked Sharon, and you responded... So why the heck are you talking about Arafat all of a sudden? News flash. Arafat is a scumwad. I know it, Lain knows it, MD knows it (I think). Everyone here agrees that arafat IS, in fact, a total crock of S***. Personally, I was calling for his assassination months ago, and I'm pretty much of the same mind now (much to my cohorts' horror). But we're not talking about Arafat, we're talking about *SHARON*. If you can defend him, please do so. Otherwise, don't try to change the subject.>> I was pointing out that Arafat, not Sharon, is the greatest threat to the Palestinian people, and as the one who lead them to the place they are now, the guilt must fall on his be-turbaned head. But since you ask.... Sharon's only responsibility is to the Israeli people. Not you, not me, not international opinion, nobody. As a leader his first responsibility is to ensure the safety of the Israeli state and it's citizens. By *whatever* means necessary. If that means turning all of Palestine into a cinder, so be it. And who are we to gainsay him? I don't think either of us, as fat, complacent Americans, can even fathom the existence of the Israeli people. We don't even live in the same *reality*. At least not most of the time. We got a great big heaping dose of Israeli reality about eight months ago. But it didn't stick. We're forgetting. Slipping back to normal. If America is to survive into the 21st century, we might look to take a few pointers from Israel.

<<And in any case, Israel had a moral obligation to treat the palestinians with restraint.>> Why? Some things, like survival, are beyond morality.

<<<<Eleventh: There's a city in Israel called Demona. 'Nuff said. ;)>> You miscounted.>> Bite me. :) It was a rush job, ‘cause I was pissed. I'm calmer now. See the smile? Much calmer now.

Kid, sex, the age of consent, etc.> All I'll say on this is: I'm tired of all this jailbait that doesn't look like jailbait.

Case in point. I take my brother to school every morning. On this particular morning last semester, he was having yet another getting-out-of-bed-is-entirely-too-much-effort morning, so I left him there and headed to work. On my way there I passed a girl walking in the rain. I walked the two miles to school every day until senior year, and walking in the rain, (at least, when you actually have to get somewhere, as opposed to just for enjoyment's sake) sucks. She's got about a mile to go, so I sympathetically offered her a ride.

(Of course, she looked like... A Hispanic version of the way I picture Jen looking in High School. Combine that with a *short* black skirt and a tight red top, (did I mention that it's raining?) and you can see my sympathy is not exactly pure)

So, anyway, she accepts, and gets in the car. For the sake of making conversation, I mention that I graduated from the same high school, and ask if she knows any of my old teachers. We're approaching the school now, and I can just see the campus police, giving me the eyeball. And this is her response:

"I don't really know many of the teachers yet. I'm a freshman."

Me: "I... see." (In my mind: A... freshman? You have tits the size of my *head* and you're a freshman?!? Freshmen didn't look like that when I was in high school. *Seniors* didn't look like that when I was in high school! WTF?!?)

So I let her out, all the while thinking "Please just get out of my car, and don't lie and tell the cop I touched you."

And she didn't even say thank you. Last time I do a good deed for anybody without seeing some ID first.

Kids and the media> I'm not giving up my right to watch A Clockwork Orange just because you're a crappy parent. Yes, I am damaged goods. But I think it was the years of peer-abuse that made me that way, not the fact that I started watching Monty Python when I was nine. (Although, my mom swears I drive like I do because she let me watch Dukes of Hazzard as a child) Next question. I'm not good parenting material. I know this. I'm like Hugh Grant in About A Boy. Any child of mine is likely to be the anti-Christ. I'm not going to burden myself for your kid. That's the keyword: YOURS. If your kid is looking to me or the media for role-models, it's probably because (s)he can't find any closer to home. Don't expect me to do it. In fact, far from being a role model, I'm probably going to be a negative influence in your kid's life. I'm an enabler. I'm a negative influence on everybody I meet. I don't say that out of some kind of warped pride, I'm just not a very responsible person, and I encourage irresponsibility in others. So don't leave your kids with me. BE RESPONSIBLE PARENTS.

Moochie's poll>

<<"As for the "we shouldn't prolong their suffering" argument; I'm back to the "war sucks, let's not do it" reply. With that reply, of course, is the thought that if we do go to war, we'll bomb you, you family, your school, your church, your favorite market, your kids, poison your air, your water, level your cites and generally make your life miserable for as long a possible. So, nations of the world, think long and hard before trying something stupid where the world's sole superpower is concerned.">>

<<So, in the interests of complete research, I'd like to take an informal opinion poll of the CR's members. Here's how it works. Please read the following paragraph, and answer with one of the following:>>

Strongly agree. War is war. Trying to sugarcoat the reality of it is both very hampering militarily and a grievous insult to our soldiers who die because of half-measure policies.

Quizzes> I'm an outsider, (What a surprise) a demi-god, (As befitting a Child of Bhaal), and a comedian. (Heh. Crispy dog) I'm only an electronic experimenter. (Of course, as certain people would be quick to point out, I'm never online because I'm busy playing BGII) I'm also 20% aging hypocrite. Sigh. Didn't take me long to get old, did it? (If you say yes, Gigantor will smash you puny humans! In fact, I think I will anyway! SMASH!) If I was a horrible affliction I'd be... syphilis. Lovely. Evil criminal: Charles Manson. Who's actually shorter then me, btw. And may never have killed anyone. Drunk: I'm an emotional drunk. Which is a good reason not to drink, as far as I'm concerned.

And, on a related subject, what's your (nerd)sign? http://www.trygve.com/nerdsigns.html

Jan> <> Isn't winning some better then losing all just to keep your convictions intact?

I don't mean to pick on you, but this sentence illustrates why I think religion causes all the trouble in the world. And I think, in a roundabout way, I'll tie this back to Israel/Palestine, and probably manage to piss you and Moochie off at the same time.

I think Marx was largely full of $h!t, but he said a few catchy things, one of them being "Religion in the opiate of the masses." Religion is a means for people to control large groups of their fellow humans by exploiting their fears. Because who's got a bigger stick? People who can make you miserable now, or people who can make you miserable now *and* in the next world?

Think about it. The Crusades. The Inquisition. The WTC. Jehovah's Witnesses. African overpopulation. The African AIDS epidemic. Witch Burnings. Female Genital Mutilation. Cardinal Law. Jerry Falwell. Notice a theme?

Now, I'll pose this question primarily to Moochie, since I know he likes this kind of thing, but anyone who likes history is welcome to answer.

Who was more dangerous? Hitler or Stalin?

Hitler. Stalin, while he was a paranoid f**ker, (and with his crew, who wouldn't be) was, at heart, a pragmatist. He could make a deal with the devil if it would buy him time. Hitler was infinitely more dangerous because he was a romantic.

Romantics do not act in practical ways. They do highly illogical, sometimes wildly irrational, things. They make decisions which, in the face of facts, make absolutely no sense. This makes them unpredictable and dangerous.

Religion is romanticism taken to the next level.

I'll use the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as an example here. The Israeli's believe the land is theirs because God, not the U.N., promised it to them. The Palestinians believe the Israeli's are heathen infidels who must be purged. Who's going to win? Barring something really extraordinary happening, the Israelis.

If the Palestinians could sit down and be pragmatic for a minute, they'd see this. And then they'd sue for peace, negotiate, and get on with the process of trying to build a better life for themselves, like they should have done decades ago.

But they won't. Why? Because they believe that it is Allah's will that they shall sweep the Jews into the sea, and since Allah has willed it, so it shall be. There will be no compromise. No negotiation. Simply have faith in the will of Allah and it shall happen. But it won't. The Palestinian's faith has locked them into a hopeless cycle of violence and oppression. Because they have willingly eliminated all their other options.

You cannot negotiate with someone like that. Consider it for a moment. Do you honestly think you can negotiate rationally with someone who believes that an invisible man in the sky has predetermined the outcome of what you're negotiating about? Especially since the IMITS says it's going to end in his favor?

After that ramble, some, in fact most of you, will probably be offended with me. I apologize. It is not my intent to denigrate anyone's beliefs or person by saying this. These are simply *my* beliefs. I don't know that mine are right. I just sometimes feel we would all be better off living in Lucifer's cosmos from the Vertigo book, where the only commandment handed down from on high is "Do not worship me. Or anything else."

This may come as a surprise after this ramble, but I'm not a Atheist. I'm a Murphiest. As in Murphy's Law. The God of the Murphiest religion has a lot in common with Eric Cartman. He's a fat, lazy, selfish, sadistic @$$hole who cares about nothing except himself and his amusement, and we're all just ants in his ant farm, and he's coming with the hose and the magnifying glass... It's not a terribly comforting world view, but one I came to honestly. If you've ever wondered why I'm a little irresponsible and live for the moment-y, here's why.

And on a final note, can I get government assistance now?

http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/2950.1694

"Sure, people have called me a Nazi. But I take comfort in the fact that nobody ever had a sexual fantasy about being tied to a bed and ravished by someone dressed as a liberal." P. J. O'Rourke.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 06:50:31 PM
IP: 209.33.140.101

It's finally happened. I've hit the buffer. Part 2 to follow.

Thom's Height> I have side by side pics of me and Thom, and in them he looks a couple inches taller then me. Since I'm 5'6" that makes Thom about 5'8". Unless I'm badly confused.

Lexy> <<He has GOT to get that comp hooked up and come bother us sometimes. ..Or would we bother him? o_o>> (Aaron looks around the room at several people, and just smiles) As for your in-laws... Have you considered eloping?

SJ> <<Am I just crazy here, but for some reason I thought you were Republican?>> I am... when it comes to Gun Control and the Death Penalty. But I also have this belief in the fundamental right to abortion and a MASSIVE distrust of organized religion... Which is probably why I'm a Libertarian. Yes, that 2-3 % of the population who, on the grounds that if you don't vote you don't get to b!tch, throw our votes away. <> Thank you. I aim to please. <<The sad thing is that I'm tired and addled and I have no idea as to what you're talking about or mean by that.>> Ah think ya do, Alex. ;) <<What is this, though, good cop / bad cop?>> Whatever works. <<And Wilek, don't even kid, because you as admin would make me the happiest man on Earth.>> Is that because he's not tainted by porn? <<<<First, the state of Israel is a make-up for the fact that the Western world failed to discover or care what Hitler was up to in the 30s. Where was international opinion, and the wonderful concern I see for the "poor Palestinians" then?>> So very, very true. The Jews were probably lucky that the UN did THAT much.>> On the other hand, does it seem like a cruel joke to give the Jews a homeland surrounded by people who hate them?

Jan> <<They did not read the entire story because of it's length, but they got the jest of it.>> Little Freudian slip there, Jan? ;) <<However, I am suprised that you actually believe that there is some kind of connection with the Bush family and the WTC attack.>> I didn't say I believed it. I'm just makin' conversation... <<Definition of strategical>> Maybe he thought you said "strategiary." <> I liked it. I has some genuine scary moments, some really twisted humor, beautiful sets, F. Murray Abraham, Tony Shaloob (Voice of the Emir from Grief) and Matthew Lillard actually *acting*. <<It sometimes takes great inner strength and conviction to remain a virgin.>> If you're pretty, sure. If you look like me, it was as easy as blinking. Easier, in fact.

Daniel J> <<Whoa. You've replied to a comment I made a couple of months ago. I think my TARDIS was more off course than I realized.>> Well, that was about the last time you were here.

silvadel> <<You are lucky you didnt end up in N-space.>> Yeah, ‘cause only Adric can get you out of N-space. <<The Olympics shouldnt be monopolized -- Any channel that wants it should have the ability to show the coverage -- That would make for a much better olympics experience>> Nice idea, but then any network could get a piece of the Olympic ad revenue. And they couldn't sell those pay-per-view packages that concentrate on one sport. So it'll never happen. :(

DPH> <<isn't that post bigger than the largest Doug/Kit posts?>> No. Big as it was, it didn't hit the limit Gore put in after Traveler broke the room. Doug hit that every post. And then he'd hit it again as "Kit." Which makes me wonder exactly how much of the archive, percentage-wise, is Doug's. <<<If we as a society just let crimes be committed with impunity, then anarcy would rule and no one would be save.> That's where I veiw the logical conclusion of a society based only off self-interest.>> Noooo, because it's in my self-interest for there to be laws against murder. Else somebody could just walk up and cap me with no consequences. And I don't like that idea. So, I make laws to protect me from that happening. And since I can't get people to vote for laws to protect just me, (because it's not in their self-interest to do so) they have to be laws to protect everybody. Score one for self-interest. <<<No its not, because failure sucks.> Not if you learned from your mistakes.>> What else do you learn from your mistakes, if not that failure sucks? <<Ok, I'll have to give an order to have all people wearing black and having indistinguishable features to be killed on site.>> As opposed to having us killed elsewhere? ;)

Gside> <<What do I win?>> Um, I dunno. I have some extra issues I no longer need since the second TPB came out. <> No one can be told what a Jiggy Muppet is... At least not by me, because I don't know. Maybe they're the cast of Seth Green's new show. <<That's it? I'm supposed to be imporessed?>> No, FS was supposed to be comforted. You... I bow to you, l33t master. Your kung fu is the best. <<Yes, but what am I needed for here?>> I think it was finding unicorns, but I don't remember at this point. Sorry. <<<<Great Big Sea>>: Nice. Why is it I tend to like Canadian music?>> I dunno, but you wouldn't happen to have any Reel Big Fish, would you? I'm looking for on in particular, "Irish Drinking Song". It's the one with the "aaaaaaaaaaaand we'll drink an' drink an' drink an' drink an' drink an' drink and FIGHT!" chorus. <<And the new mp3 is Stuck in the Middle With You by Dylan.>> Is that the ear-cutting song from Reservoir Dogs? Because that wasn't Dylan. <<Sex makes sense?>> A great deal of sense, actually. <<After that, you should move on to Megatokyo, Sexy Losers, Acid Reflux (now with diminished update schedule), Narbonic, Fans, Avalon, Life on Forbez, Kung Fool, and at least one of the sprite comics 8 Bit Theatre or Bob and George.>> Don't forget Sinfest, PVP (So you can see why nobody likes Scott Kurtz), Angst Technology, RPGWorld, Strangecandy, Adventurers!, Ashfield Online, and, of course, College Roomies from Hell. And if you're looking for a sprite comic, Brainstorms (http://www.twogargs.com/~brainstorms/) is drawn by an ex-denizen of this room, Amy K. Cyrway. <<Just be glad I didn't go with my lattest Oingo acquisition.>> Hmm. "(I like) Little Girls" for the child pr0n debate, or "Only a Lad" for the why kids are so screw up debate? <<Besides, after a long absence, it's best to ignore what you've missed, make a marking post, and start in from there.>> *Now* you tell me! ;)

Josh> <<My roommate has one of those. An addiction, that is.>> A chronic addiction, or an addiction to chronic? <<That's it! I'm officially off webcomics! ::deletes links::>> What exactly, in my statement, prompted that? <<Because it was so bad, right?>> I loved The 13th Warrior. It's the only Crichton book that's been made into a decent movie in two decades. But to each their own. <<yeah right. I'll believe it when I see it.>> Fair enough. <<And I suppose you think YOUR credentials are better?>> Nah. I'm not legally old enough, for one thing. Plus I don't have daddy's oil money and name recognition. But other then that, what's he got that I ain't got? <<Finally, someone gets it.>> I spent much time watching Nick at Nite when I was younger. <> Thank you. Did you ever have a chance to read the books? I remember you said you were going to. <<You mean the box is thinking about me too?>> No, I meant it worked for both slang definitions of box. <<Why? because its the only way she could justify getting her ficverse self to sleep with him.>> Heh. A reasonable assumption, but for once, no. <<When did it become a "jamboree"?>> I was feeling particularly Kharima that day.<<Okay I read it. That comic sucks, with the exception of Pikachu whoring himself out for Crack.>> Hmm, maybe you're not into anime enough to enjoy it. <<You have an alter-ego who worships him.>> Pest doesn't worship Thom. Just hotties. <<Webcomics
have ceased to amuse me.>> Huh. That's what I said about the syndicated comics. <<That was a comedy?>> That's what SJ calls it. <<What's the difference?>> It's just a matter of personal preference. <<Come here so I can kill you>> Mmm, no. <<You consider gay artists to be sociopathic drivers?>> Hmm. Perhaps the Jetta-buying demographic is a bit different outside of Texas. <<That was a great movie, wasn't it? NOT!>> Eh, it was a fun popcorn flick. <<<<You even get f**ked after you're dead>>: No thanks.>> Perhaps f**ked *over* would have been more appropriate. <<Excuse me, but I'm slightly taller than Thom. And I have a picture to prove it.>> Oh. Short is just me then. <<The first two didn't work>> Hmm. I guess this is why I should post faster. Misanthropic Bitch still works, but it seems to only be viewable through IE. Strange. <<Would you reasonably expect that your mechanics secretary would know the difference between a phillips and a flathead screwdriver?>> I would reasonably expect anyone over the age of eight to know something so elementary. <<You must have no concept of where your vehicle is loccated.>> Where's your car, dude? ;) <<We'd split a maid each month.>> Kinky. ;) <> Yeah, I think that's illegal even in Vermont. ;) <<Believe it or not, you don't need to put a comma in your writing every time YOU take a breath>> Once again, Josh says something I wish I'd thought of. <<But logic does not apply in texas.>> True enough, but Jan's not *in* Texas. <<So, does this mean that if I say anything about about G2003 that I'll be REALLY banned, since the entire con staff has admin authority?>> I'm sure you'll show us the same warmth and support you've given Jen and Siryn. ;) <<No, I'm talking about THE murphy>> Who is that anyway? <<Which begs the question: why isn't the admin selection process more democratic?>> Because we're not a democracy. <<Have you ever considered that a majority of how our personalities develop and grow is affected by our experiences in high school?>> Certainly made me what I am today... <<Thing still happen in an imaginary universe when the imaginer isn't around.>> That's where fic comes from. <<Go to law
school. Or become wastes of skin.>> Isn't that the same thing? <<Are you sure you're really an admin?>> Last I looked, yeah. Not a very good one, I admit. <<Yeah, Nyquil is foul, but nothing puts me to sleep faster.>> Nyquil, with the original green death flavor! <<<<forty virgins>>:
Woohoo!>> I'd rather have forty sluts, personally. <<<<Back to the important things in life, like the NBA playoff race and Baldur's Gate II>>: What about sex and driving?>> You're right, those are even more important. Thank goodness A-kon's coming up. <> But is that because we're apathetic, or because nobody ever campaigns to attract our votes, leaving us with a choice between "Two lamers who remind me of my dad... Or my granddad." I vote every year. I might as well not, since I vote a straight Libertarian ticket, but them's the breaks. <<<<did the sexy clothes *cause* the girls to be more promiscuous, or was wearing sexy clothes merely an outward sign of the girls inclination to be promiscuious>>: Jan's not suggesting a cause. She's suggesting a correllation>> I can show a correlation between increased ice-cream sales and increased homicide rates too. Doesn't mean it's true. <<<<Grizelda>>: You'd name your poor child that?>> Blame me. The second choice was Ursula. <<There are chinese christians?!>> Yes. We started aggressively missionizing China in the mid- to late-nineteenth century. It's one of the things that lead to the Boxer Rebellion in 1901. (Which is really one of the most fascinating, under-studied wars of history. That and the Boer War of 1900) <<Red breasts can't be good>> What if they're attached to Purgatori? (The Demon/Vampire chick from Chaos Comics) <<<<Guys don't get bikini waxes>>: Some porn stars might. Or male strippers.>> Or anyone who doesn't want to look like a wookie. <<B-movie star: Pauly Shore. Damnit, I hate that guy.>> Is that better or worse then coming up as Regis Philbin? <<The trick is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his.
-General George S. Patton>> So very, very true. <<And worse, he'll have a bad name.>> What's wrong with Loki Harris Cordova? <<And that's saying a lot, since you've got Demona's boobs permanently emblazoned on your chest.>> Only in 2D tho'. Which is probably good, else none of my shirts would fit. <> Okay, best theatrically released Star Wars movie since ESB. << Actually, its the Oddessey.>> Are you sure? Long lost heir, magical weapon, guided by a wise old man who can also kick a fair bit of @$$, tries to sleep with his sister... <<Hell, Jason Mewes would have made a better Anakin.>> That would be awesome! I think Christian Bale should play him in the next one. <<Greg W's leading ladies were tomboys and psychopaths. Some women are *actually* feminine, you know.>> I thought psychopath and feminine meant the same thing? <<In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Even if his eye is lazy.>> I always thought it was "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is stoned to death." <<<<*some* muscle/fat can't hurt>>: Actually, it can.>> Only if it lands on you from a great height. <<And he'd lose to Aaron.>> Thank you. That made my day.

IX> <<Funny, I thought, I always thought three males was a gang-bang and anything over that was a orgy.>> Generally, four people is a four-some, (a step up from a threesome) and above that is an orgy. Of course, I've also heard the term menage a cinque, but I think the author just made that up.

Jen> <> If there were no consequences involved? Then it would depend on who my choice of "targets" were. ;) <<My grandmother finally passed away and we are making arrangements to get to the memorial service. My kids are not handling it well at all. We were all very close to her. :(>> (Hugs) My deepest condolences.

Spacebabie> <<That thing is a piece of crap. My mother used to drive one. We called it Exploder.>> Really? What year Nova? <<Make her put it on the web and provide a link please.>> Well, I can't link it directly to the room, but you could just go to http://mazokupuppet.art-chicks.com/index3.html and look in the "Stoned" directory. You'll know it when you see it. <> We already did. <<Why cause I was working on a fic yesterday when the power blipped and I lost all my unsaved data.>> (hugs) My sympathies. <<The episode with Lina in wacky land does wonders.>> Ah, but have you seen Evangelion? It's only really funny if you've seen Eva. Or did I mean to say disturbing? <<seriously dude don't make the same mistake hippie parents did and named their kids Sundog and Moonshine.>> We have a client who named his kid Jazzmyn Starr. <> But we've worked out such a good deal with the Pennsylvania. <> No, no. God made the Heaven and Earth, but the Devil made Texas. <<Green Baron is the CR Whore ;)>> Nah. Hos get paid. Sluts give it away for free. And speaking of getting paid, that thing with the $20 bill is creepy. Who comes up with this stuff? <> No matter what you've heard, FLCL is weirder. It truly has to be seen to be believed. <<While your dreaming why not go for a Buffybot or a Faithbot?>> Because Demonabot is the ultimate bot! All bots bow to Demonabot!

GB> <> I should point out that sadonecrobestiality is specifically banned in the revised CR guidelines. <> Funny, I would have thought the opposite was true. <> Sorry dude, the dates we've worked out right now are June 27-29. <<Be careful what you say of Natalie Portman. The asshole king will execute you for balsphemy :)>> I doubt Josh would do that. ;) <<That's easily manipulated. You just switch parties.>> That's what my dad did.

GXB> <<Then imagine how badly short nice guys do!>> I don't have to imagine. I used to be a short nice guy. Now I'm just short. <<Moralist = Dumbass (No offense DPH, I'm not singling you out, but that's what Moralists are).>> "What we call morals is simply blind obedience to words of command." - Havelock Ellis. <<<<There's a city in Israel called Demona. 'Nuff said. ;)>> There IS??? SWEET!>> Yep. It's home to a "candy factory" which many believe to be the base for Israel's nuclear program.

Wolfie> <<Did you finish Baldur's Gate I yet?>> Yeah, I promised myself I would before I played the sequel. Mostly it was a matter of going through Durlag's tower a second time to find out what was in a couple of rooms I missed. (I swear my brother and I need to navigate for each other. He's a point A to point B ASAP guy, who always ends up blundering around for a while before finding out where he wants to go, whereas I'm a do-every-subquest-for-the-experience player who lucks into the path of least resistance and has to keep jumping off it. Or, as he puts it, he's Solo and I'm So-slow)

FS> <<"Yeah, this gun is a royal b!7c* to load, but dang it if it don't take out an entire regiment of Panzers with a single shot!">> Damn, that is a big gun. <<"I love babies, but unfortunately I am all out of BBQ sauce!")>> I love children, but I could never eat a whole one. <<*WE* *HAVE* *A* *HOUSE!*>> Congrats. Condolences on all the other stuff, but congrats on that.

Christine> <<Becca enjoyed the tape, and immediately began pointing out the differences between the movie and the comic book. What a weird little kid ; )>> You've taught her well I see. Happy belated birthday. <> And here I thought you liked being called The Christine Morgan. ;) <> Owww. Mucho sympathy vibes for Becca. Hope she has a swift and painless recovery. <<Becca's not doing too bad but the medicine makes her a little loopy.>> Ask if she'll share.

Mec> <<Suggy Freelance rules!!! Hehehe, Okay so most all of you probably knew about it and have read the whole bloddy thing, but I just started reading it last week!>> Be careful. Sluggy does indeed rule, but that's how it starts. First you read Sluggy, and then you start reading another webcomic... And then another... and another... And pretty soon, you'll be just like FS and me. Save yourself while there's still time!

Moochie> <<Beleivers are frightening because they believe in something beyond themselves. Unbeleivers are frightening because they believe in nothing BUT themselves. Contemplate that for a moment; which would you prefer?>> Unbelievers, in a heartbeat. I'll speak more on this in a bit, but I prefer to deal with people who's outside influences don't include an invisible man who watches us all. BTW, is it a psychological thing that you can't spell believers right? ‘Cause you know, you can't spell believe without "lie" in the middle. <<Am I the ONLY person who doesn't see this as an intrensicly good thing?>> Well, she's not *our* SO. So we think anyone living by a strip joint is lucky. (Of course, my personal view on strip joints goes like this: A beautiful woman dances naked in front of me. I can't touch her. She can't touch me. I can't touch myself.... And I have to give her all my money? That must be what Hell is like! I can't remember who said that, but it sums up my thoughts nicely) <<Perhaps we can divide conservatism into "good" and "evil"
sections?>> As long as I'm in the latter.

MC> <<I'd rather just let all my knowledge and experience jump back in time and land in my
past self, and go from there. I think I'd like to reboot myself from age 13, download all my current knowledge and experience into my past self, and go from there. That would be neat *^_^* >> I dunno, seems like that could really mess you up. Think 971 Demona meeting 1995 Demona. <<You could do that by a mix of fear and reward. Loyalty is rewarded, and betrayal is punished in a horrible and vicious way.>> Have I told you lately that I like the way you think? <<Ooooo... missed the top ten. Curse you Sluggy Freelance! *mooncat shakes fist at the comic strip that has hypnotised her for the past four hours* oooohhhhoooo... if only you weren't so great!>> And another one succumbs... Have you gotten a stuffed Bun-bun yet? <<Is Aylee lost to us forever as the fun loving, occassional people eating alien to become a despotic corporate overlord?>> I think so. Mind you, I was hoping Mosp would get to take her place as part of the gang, and could then become Torg's new quasi-love-interest. <<That would be as stupid as prosecuting a person who creates a picture or film or book depicting murder, the same as you would an actual person who commits murder.>> That's what Delta Press said too, but they still got the sh1t sued out of them. <<Sorry, we are not a village. I'm not responsible for raising your kid.>> DAMN STRAIGHT!

Time travel> To me, closed loop time travel is just pointless. If you can't change anything, you start getting into predestination/free will issues. Which is one of my main beefs with Timedancer. (The fact that Sata annoys me to no end being the other) On Quantum Leap, Sam had the ability to do good, and if he didn't, he was screwed. Brooklyn has no ability to do anything, because everything he did, he did before. Plus, there's never any real suspense, because we know how it's going to end. We may know none of the details of the ride, but we know Brook and Co. end up safe and sound back at Wyvern after forty years. "Oh no, Brook is turning to stone in mid-air and falling toward a firework factory where a nuclear device is about to go off!" Yawn. He's still going to make it back to Wyvern in one piece.

Dark Ages has a similar problem: Prequelitis. (Which I thought would be the worst thing about the new Star Wars movies. Until I saw Episode One) I like some of the Dark Ages stories, but always in the back of your mind is a little reminder of "Hey, don't get too attached to anyone, ‘cause you know that all *die* in 994. Or earlier, in the case of Hudson's mate.

Todd> <<WARPMIND - No, he's unarmed. Why? (As in, what's the significance of the chain-saw and sawn-off shotgun?)>> Todd, Todd, Todd. Now that you've seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail, I think it's time to check out the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness trilogy.

Lila> Hello and welcome. <> That makes two of us.

Wilek> <<In other news, clicky for something that, well, explains a lot...>> Heh. P.J. O'rourke had an interesting article about the sport as well. It's in one of his older books, Holidays in Hell, I think. Apparently, when you score a goal with the dead goat, it's worth a cash prize. Only, the prizes aren't awarded to the scoring team, but the scoring *player*, so the minute you grab the goat, not only does everybody on the opposing team start trying to kill you, everybody on your *own* team also starts trying to kill you. Truly a metaphor for something about Afghanistan.

Lain> <<and temple prostitutes.. lets not forget the temple prostitutes.. ;)>> Hey, at last, a religion that actually *gives* you something for your money. I think they should reinstate temple prostitution. Church attendance would perk right up. <<kira woke me early this morning my sleeping on my head and sticking her tail in my nose. fun.>> I'll swap you. Mine woke me up on Saturday trying to have a hairball on my chest.

Patrick> <<"There's a city in Israel called Demona." - And there's a town in Pennsylvania called Intercourse, but I still don't want to move there. :P>> I'd much rather live in Intercourse then it's neighbor, Blue Balls. ;) <<And as far as I know, the outdoors and all those various toys still exist today.>> As far as you know, the outdoors still exists? Maybe it's time to get out of that cubicle, dude. <> That should be interesting. I wish I wrote faster, so I could get to that Gargoyles/OZ cross-over I have planned. <<:: heads off to the paradoxical task of sitting inside a cubicle while attempting to think outside the box ::>> I'd rather think about being inside a box, personally... <<Cabbage Patch Hatchlings... yeah, that's the ticket.>> Congratulations. That takes Win, Place, and Show in the "Most Hideous Thing I've Ever Heard" Derby. <<"Kind of wonder what a Life Size Demona Soft Doll would go for *evil grin* " – That would depend how limited the quantities were. If there were only one, I'm afraid you'd find yourself in the midst of a very nasty bidding war. >:)>> Which I would win. :)

metaldemon> <<Let's not forget G-d exiled the Jews from the Holy Land for their sins of giving money to Pagan religions and forgetting to fully observe the Sabbatical and Jubilee years. Jews like to balk that Jerusalem is their's, even though G-d basically said to get out. They are a people without a nation for a reason.>> I suppose if I *believed* in God that argument might hold some water... But since the Jews claim is, to me, historical, not religious, it doesn't. <<which makes no sense why you support the Israelis taking over Jerusalem since they want it for it's holy factor.>> Unless it was their *historical* claim he was supporting, perhaps? <<You never see them advocating celibacy, or waiting for marriage (and if you want to get secular: waiting for a committment). NOw that I think about it, in High School, our sex-ed programes never once advocated absitenance; it was always: "If you're going to have sex, wear a condom.">> Maybe that's because abstinence *doesn't* work. We can't even get priests to abstain these days, and you expect these little balls of hormones in hip-huggers to not make the sign of the aardvark the minute they get the chance?

Hyperion> <<So, the other day I picked up a copy of Jedi Outcast (Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight 2)>> Just the man I wanted to talk to. I'm not an FPS player, but I need to know this for a fic: Can you headshot in the JK series?

Ravyn> << Lucifer could get him called "Lucy" around the guys.>> What if it's spelled Lusiphur? Then he'd just be called "Luse".

Mandi> Congrats on getting a plug on Alice.

Jewel> Welcome back. Glad you're enjoying Japan. <<Weird Japan experience of the day: watching Star Wars dubbed into Japanese.>> You couldn't get me a copy of that, could you? My brother's a huge SW fan, and he seemed really intrigued by the idea.

Warpy> <<The link I hence provide is a genuine monstrosity. At least if you have seen Sailor Moon.>> Damnit Warpy! Put some better warnings on those things next time! I think I damaged my retinas looking at that!

Welcome back Niamhgold.

We had a Jackal sighting! Hurrah!

Toku> <<Rant>> Very interesting. For a quasi-counterpoint check here: http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/father.html <<It isn't an ordinary human's place to try and bend a mind or soul to their own will.>> Fortunately I'm no ordinary human! ;)

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 06:49:45 PM
IP: 209.33.140.101

33 days until I am in the US and 34 days until I am in New Orleans. Life is good.

DPH> Well, as for political primaries, it is a "jungle primary" in Louisiana. I can belong to the Libertarian party and vote for the Monarchist candidate. All politicians run against each other and if noone wins 50% of the vote, the top two contenders run in a general election. Often, the run off is between two democrats, especially in New Orleans and rarely its been two republicans, very rarely, as the Republican party has only been of significance in Louisiana for a generation, and most Republicans are ex-Deomcrats.

I imagine Arkansas is similar.

<<Simple, the Democrats don't want Republicans picking Democratic candidates and the Republicans don't want Democrats picking Republican candidates.>> That's easily manipulated. You just switch parties.

<<I'll argue that pure evil does not exist. Therefore, you must be a shade of gray.>> I believe that many shaeds of gray qualify as good and many qualify as evil. Of course, the determination is subjective, though I think Natural Law can be helpful in that case.

<<You're right about my religious beliefs. That's not entire sum of me, but it's a good start.>> Well, it strikes me as the core of your being, though of course, a lot of our life is not an important issue to our faith unless we have very strict faiths.

SJ> I sadi my memory is good, not perfect. So I was mistaken about you. BTW, what is your reaction to my little August, Ga crack? I think you find it funny, though I guess you want to leave us guessing.

As for getting a better woman, maybe you should try for an internship with Condi Rice :D Now, I find her extremely attractive, especially for someone 20 years older.

<<The bisexual girlfriend joke was a rib on Doug, but it would take too long to explain it (it's an obscure reference), and besides it violates a rule of comedy (if the joke goes over their heads, don't take the time to explain it).>> I read it all in the archive. I sometimes tell stuff taht goes over someoen's head, so those who get it can take pride in getting some of my odd references.

GXB> <<Why it just happens to be one of my all time faves. "Vanity, definetly my favorite sin.">> Plus that end was great. Granted, Keanu Reeves's accent started to get really annoying after about 20 minutes, but I'm amazed he can actually act. Of course, hands down, Al Pacino is the starring role.

<<Wow, we should have that here. I'll do it. >> It helps that the German language has about four words meaning kill, but the variations can detrmine how and why the kill is done. I can't remember specifically, but it was in a Philosophy class a few year's back.

Speaking of Demona and lesbianism. I wonder what Howard Stern would think....

Imzadi> <<Don't knock it till you try it.>> I didn't knock anything.

<<That depends on the scale, who's grading. 10, usually.>> And I guess only five if their elderly, but 15 if they have roller skates and you have to make an effort to hit them :)

<<And lots of commies.>> But American military are more welcome in Germany than in Berkely, though we probably save the German govt a fortune in its defense budget.

Jaden> I have flag deatil all during my four day weekend. Geeting up at 5:30 am on Saturday sucks.

We have a new soldier in. A Spc McKay who was in Camp Casey. He's been there for 2 and a half years. I was wondering if you rememebr the name at all. He also ahd a Russian wife and I think he's still making payments on her ;) I am certian you are familiar with what I am talking about.

Warpmind> I think I missed the joke.

Daphne> Humouse? I remember that. If they're not careful they'll wind up with strains of rodent lycanthropy ;)

Imzadi> <<Sadly, religions are tax exempt. One of the few things that is that really shouldn't be.>> I recall Schuler's Crystal Cathedral lost its tax exempt status for generating too much income, but I'd actually agree with you on how the status is abused. Religions should be subjected to tax laws regarding any not-for profit organization.

And the main abusers are a bunch of smaller churches that can buy up land and use their congregation to generate revenue. The bigger religions may do that, especially some Churches, though they are more likely to get caught. Of course, for many of these smaller churches, the IRS won't investigate out of fear of being accused of racism. Plus many of these Churches have had politicians use their pulpit, and ironically the Democratic party does this more than the Republican party (but the GOP is considered the more religious party).

Kaioto> As always good points, and you are better at presenting them than I am.

If I recall, our laws are more there to maintain order, and sometimes our laws overlap with religion, like laws against theft, murder, rape, flashing people in public. Granted religion has prompted us to challenges laws of the land, like the Methodist Church with abolition or the Civil Rights movement, and it can be manipulated to uphold laws, like Prohibition.

Now, a big issue with religion and Government is when a clergyman runs for office. In Boston, Fr. Drinan did jsut that and was elected. Immediately the Vatican told him he can be a Congressman or a Jesuit, but not both. This is a good check and balance, and while I like some minister-politicians, I see a huge conflict of interest, overall. Gov Huckabee strikes me as pretty good, but I don't think he's active as a pastor right now.

<<Wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Suddenly taxing that static property is a good quick fix for the IRS, but it doesn't do the rest of the world much good. Eventually, as you tax away finite, non-recurring resources like the Church's real-estate, the well runs dry and you wind up back where you started. Raising taxes never makes up for economic instability anyway.>> If our Economy grows that dependent on the Government, it is time to disband the USA.

Well, good night to all.
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Hanau
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 05:24:18 PM
IP: 62.104.212.98

Christine:

Best wishes from Lexy and I for Becca.

Greg:

<< I think we should be allowed to do pretty much what ever we want ,to a certain point (I guess I am a Libertarian), and let those who believe in certain morals just practice what they believe in rather than try to force it upon others. >>

Now, as much as I favor a Libertarian approach to government as much as possible, I have to point out the inconsistancy in this position. Creating a system that permits people to do pretty much anything they want is based in its own moral judgment, and creates its own order of forced morality over the citizenry.

To justify a freedom-loving society as the one you (and I) prefer, you have to first assert that some structure of thinking, which puts freedom as a high moral virtue, is morally superior to the alternatives. Then, you must enforce that morality on the society, else like-minded people get together, form armies, and bring everyone else under heel, obliterating your whole utopia.

Which is why I accept that my preference for a free society stems from a moral judgment like any other, which I deem morally superior to the alternatives, and believe should be enforced whether you like it or not. A tyrrany which is the only thing preserving freedom, as it were. Perverse, yes, but starkly realistic.

When you live in a society, SOMEBODY's moral scheme (sometimes more than one at a time) is being forced down everyone else's throats. I just have to cope with that. I can either influence that scheme or move somewhere more agreeable. Hopefully, we'll find the way to make government and other agents of enforcement the lesser of many evils they could possibly become.

<< The Catholic Church alone could restore the economy if all you did was tax it's real estate. >>

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Suddenly taxing that static property is a good quick fix for the IRS, but it doesn't do the rest of the world much good. Eventually, as you tax away finite, non-recurring resources like the Church's real-estate, the well runs dry and you wind up back where you started. Raising taxes never makes up for economic instability anyway.

All this proposal really does is let government officials bash in a few skulls and loot the bodies to keep their pet pork from being cut loose. This helps buffer their popularity in their district as well as eliminate voices of opposition, thus keeping them gainfully employed for another term of criminal mismanagement of civil trust.

Josh:

<< Sadly, religions are tax exempt. One of the few things that is that really shouldn't be. >>

As our early statesmen noted, "The power to tax is the power to destroy." As much as granting the ability to destroy religions with a stroke of a pen to the sterling examples of humanity that make up our government might appeal to some groups and individuals, it goes against fundamental ideals our country was founded upon and claims to fight for world-wide to this day.

DPH:

Failure doesn't suck, depression does. It is all in the way you cope with failure. I find failure is a great excuse to express my feelings. Often times, this can be channeled in a positive, self-developmental manner.

Then again, it is nice to get in touch with your Beserk side once in a while too, as long as the damage to other people and their property is kept to a minimum. Seriously though, there is a sort of unique satisfaction in letting out a scream so loud and long that you almost pass out and all the wildlife in the immediate area finds somewhere else to be. ^_^

Gside: Give the thing to whoever is willing to actually pay the most to upkeep it, make it secure, and maintain a functional ferry dock to and from. Ownership is a matter of responsibility first, pride and power second.

Ah well, what a slow day at work ...
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 04:12:14 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

I finally booked my room for G2002, so if anyone out there still needs a room for Gathering 2002, e-mail me and let me know.
Greg Bishansky - [madoc55@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 04:06:25 PM
IP: 216.179.1.46

Christine -- All my best hoopes and prayers for Becca. Keep firmly in mind her youth is highly in her favor, and that the healing ability of the young is pretty amazing.

Poor kid, a good time to spoil her rotten. Poor mom, don't forget to take care of yourself during this and take a few "me" moments to keep your head together.

If I had a plushy garg, I'd give it to you and Becca with a get well soon card.

Be well
Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 11:46:54 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

*Warpmind strolls in, looking remarkably cheerful.*
Well, yesterday I did something truly astounding: I PAID to REGISTER a SHAREWARE game! And you guys know what else? It is WORTH it! :)
(So go on forth and find Geneforge today, and ensure that at least some of your money is well spent...)

Mecord: Yo, long time! How's Cat? Why do you think Demona'd become furious if she knew how many humans worship her to the extent of plushies? }:)

Spacebabie: Dead? *Slips two fingers into Spacebabie's armpit* Hmmm... Heat and heartbeat; nope, it's not you. };)

DPH: Fair enough. Just so long as you've got your rear end covered. ;)

Christine: Truly sad about Becca's arm... But you claim the medicine makes her a little loopy? How can you tell? ;)

Gside: No, I never basted Gunjack... But I got the baster in Canada... You do the math. };) As for the phone having to be at the computer, well, alas, it is not my decision. (Mom occasionally needs to use the computer corner as an office, meaning that she sometimes needs to use the computer AND phone at the same time... Bah, humbug!) Where the latin issue is concerned... If it comes to that, I'll find a way. (Even if it means I'll have to record it myself...)

Josh: No, to my knowledge, neither he is a master baster. As for the plushie... You can have the Picasso-style one,while I get the realistic one. };)

And that concludes my post as there's nothing more to reply to at present, and dinner is ready. Later, gang.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 09:16:13 AM
IP: 193.217.174.229

Saw Ep II in the theater today. It still sucked. Yoda wasn't any more entertaining at three feet tall. The company was good, though, so the day wasn't a total loss.

My electric blanket says "dry over parallel lines". I wasn't aware that parallel lines emit heat.

Warpmind: <<you might want to check with Gunjack Valentine's opinion on that baster>>: Is he a master baster? <<A Picasso-style Demona plushie? That would be unseamly>>: Yes, but it'd be funny as hell. Especially to those of us who are demanding a realistic one.

Mecord: <<smack them upside the head with a mace>>: Why so painless? <<headaches from staring at the monitor to thirty-two hours without blinking>>: That's caused by broadband? I thought it was caused by the playboy channel.

Spacebabie: <<Is it me or is it dead in here?>>: Are you dead?

DPH: <<The church is only organization in history that exists for the sole benefit of its non-members>>: They'd like us to believe that. <<that means you'll never do anything unless you're absolutely positive you can't fail at it>>: No, I just meant that failure sucks. The fact that its unavoidable doesn't make it suck any less.

Greg X: <>: Sorry, but razor cuts and burn marks don't do it for me. <<Anything else in Berkeley that's cool?>>: If there was I wouldn't be trying to hard to get out of there. <>: What the hell is wrong with your cable company? <<The Catholic Church alone could restore the economy if all you did was tax it's real estate>>: Sadly, religions are tax exempt. One of the few things that is that really shouldn't be.

Gside: <<she may want be your pimp>>: Do I get some? <<the computer no longer needs to be near phone lines>>: Same with a long phone cable. <<we own the water around it and all the island below sea level>>: Great. Do you pay for its upkeep?

Ignorance is bliss...to the ignorant! To me, it's just plain annoying.
-Mr. Floppy, "Unhappily Ever After"

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Encino, CA, US of A
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 02:33:06 AM
IP: 206.170.217.250

Anon> <>: Then you don't lurk very well.

Imzadi> <<Any that aren't kitchen utensils?>>: One or two, but those are specialty items.
<<That's an excellent idea. What can you pay?>>: Watch out, she may want be your pimp.
<<If not, I'm not paying>>: Exactly.
<<From who?>>: Porn.
<<If you want>>: Yes, but it's also strictly enforced, right?
<<If you want>>: If you're going to be amateurish about it.

Warpmind> <<you might want to check with Gunjack Valentine's opinion on that baster>>: You basted Gunjack? But I thought you were after the ladies.
<<when the phone rings, it's invariably for my mother. And the phone is placed at the computer>>: But with broadband, the computer no longer needs to be near phone lines.
<<regarding the egg beater... well... maybe>>: Awright.
<<All psalms, all the way>>: OK, but what chorus are you going to use to record the fake latin?

Mecord> <<as long as you don�t mind the side affects>>: Eh, a couple years in college accustoms you to them to the point that you don't notice any more.

Greg> <<the Statue of Liberty belongs to New York!>>: Yeah, yeah. But you've got to admit that we own the water around it and all the island below sea level.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, May 28, 2002 01:29:42 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Hey, folks. Been a rough weekend but we're all hanging in there. Will find out soon about the appointment with the specialist. Becca's not doing too bad but the medicine makes her a little loopy. I didn't get anything done at work last night except some work on my game and watching a bunch of eps of Red Dwarf because my mind is tapioca just now. Nothing else to say at the moment. Ciao.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Monday, May 27, 2002 11:41:12 PM
IP: 67.226.61.189

Been busy and boring. The worst combination in the world.

JOSH> <<So does every male in the fandon>> Amen! <<When I take over, I shall order that all real lesbians look like fictional lesbians.>> Same here, except mine will be bi! I must have some of the fun also. <<Then again, maybe we really are the same person.>> no, there are subtle and blatant differences. <> Except for the last part, I always found Goth chicks to be incredibly sexy. <<Make it robotic and semi-intelligent and I'll give you every dime I've got.>> Then I shall kill you and take it. <<Visit your friend Josh?>> Hmmm... sorry, but you'll have to do a little better than that? Anything else in Berkeley that's cool? <<No, but other people are.>> Two words: Fuck 'em! <<No, you wouldn't. She's a very funny asian comedian.>> Ah. <<There are a few people I'd like to "help". >> I happen to have an entire list.

PATRICK> <<Margaret Cho is a stand up comedian. The rest would take too long to explain.>> Sounds like me when I don't feel like explaining things to people ;) <<Just watch Comedy Central.>> I don't get Comedy Central, it costs extra in my area. As for my wealthy knowledge of South Park, I download episodes from the net.

SPACEBABIE> <<Yes>> Damn, I have yet to score another quality I feel I must have, and that's being dangerously unpredictable. <<:::Big Evil Grin::>> That grin is quite becoming ;) <> That satisfies me. <<I’d rather have Saturn’s Glaive.>> Okay. <<You mean short of amnesia>> Don't count on amnesia. The Dark Side is now in your nature.

DPH> <<I'll say that I direct my actions to be a lighter side of gray.>> I have a feeling that one cay we will cross swords. <<To accomplish a greater amount of evil, you must convince several different groups to actively seek to harm other different groups.>> Though it was a bad movie, I must say that this is summed up quite well in the character of Emperor/Supreme Chancellor/Senator Palpatine/Darth Sidious. His machinations more than make him one of my heroes. Now if only he were in a better movie. <> i;ve said it before, but if these Churches want to get political power, we should tax them. let them pay the price of admission like the rest of us. The Catholic Church alone could restore the economy if all you did was tax it's real estate. <> Again, it comes down to who's morals. As a non-Christian, I don't think it's fair that I should be forced to live by Christian morals. That's not what America is about. I think we should be allowed to do pretty much what ever we want ,to a certain point (I guess I am a Libertarian), and let those who believe in certain morals just practice what they believe in rather than try to force it upon others.

GSIDE> <<Oh sure, ruin all my illusions.>> Oh, I'll be more than happy to do so. I don't care what that court ruling said, the Statue of Liberty belongs to New York!

Okay, I have some overdue e-mails to reply to.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, May 27, 2002 11:28:28 PM
IP: 216.179.3.164

Sevarius could do it... but could he patent it? Check the link.

God bless!
Daphne - [<-- patenting the humouse]
Monday, May 27, 2002 09:56:11 PM
IP: 67.242.39.31

Mecord - <sounds like a basic concept for religion.> You're right. <Too bad some religions don’t realize or remember it. In fact it really pisses me off when I see people in my own religion that have seemed to forget this. Gives me the urge to smack them upside the head with a mace.> There is a saying: The church is only organization in history that exists for the sole benefit of its non-members.

I get the feeling (and I know others believe this too) that the Christian Coalition is too focused on achieving political power. I believe they should revise their platform to include only and all issues dealing with morality (I got a pamplet once from them that conviently forgot to mention the Family and Medical Leave Act. Actually, I don't believe it was convient, but rather deliberate since it was an embarrassment because all the people they wanted to support were against it.)

Warpmind - <They wear black. Aside from that, they're as anonymous as anyone could be. (Though, their utter lack of distinguishable features might be a description in and of itself...) > Ok, I'll have to give an order to have all people wearing black and having indistinguishable features to be killed on site.

Spcebabie <my wieght is dropping likes flies> - It isn't fair.

Imzadi - <No, failure still sucks.> ok, that means you'll never do anything unless you're absolutely positive you can't fail at it. Hmm. That sounds rather . . BORING. Sorry, but life is meant to be full of challenges IMHO.

Anon - Ok, where do I start? *switches to stretching the truth mood* Timedancer Season 4 could be released any day now. *switches to telling the truth mood* In all probablity, it *should* be released by the time of the Gathering. Besides, TGS is doing breakdowns for Gargoyles and Pendragon.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, May 27, 2002 08:56:51 PM
IP: 204.94.193.75

spacebabie>> no.. i somehow i dont think its just you.. :P
lain
Monday, May 27, 2002 08:42:45 PM
IP: 65.92.90.47

Is it me or is it dead in here?
Spacebabie
Monday, May 27, 2002 08:06:41 PM
IP: 66.119.33.135

It a lot easier to get into the CR at the beginning of the week, so here I am. Since I doubt many of you are interested with my boring life and how much it sucks, I’ll only mention that I’ll be spending the day working on a Gargoyle fan-fic and cut straight to the rest of my post.

Todd>> <finding out how Demona would respond> I wouldn’t want to be the one to break the news to her. In fact, I wouldn’t want to be a human within a 20-mile radius when she found out.

Dph>> <a group that seeks to help out those are trying to help themselves out of their own problems.> sounds like a basic concept for religion. Too bad some religions don’t realize or remember it. In fact it really pisses me off when I see people in my own religion that have seemed to forget this. Gives me the urge to smack them upside the head with a mace.

Gside>> <There's a great cure to that: broadband> as long as you don’t mind the side affects, addiction, insomnia, headaches from staring at the monitor to thirty-two hours without blinking, forgetting what it’s like to verbally communicate, and whenever someone tries to pull you away you respond “Just a sec, I need to check my e-mail” (which may buy you enough time to check message boards, CR’s, and type hurried responses while you continue reading online comics in another window). Of course this causes another temporal relationship between the time you go to bed and the time your alarm clock goes off.

Okay, that's all I have for now, see ya latter.
Mecord
Irritation, Annoyance, Hell
Monday, May 27, 2002 12:33:53 PM
IP: 12.255.0.254

*Warpmind wanders in, glancing around.*
Just like me, for once in a blue moon making the top ten, and not noticing... :p

Spacebabie: Innocent. Riiiight. And I note that we don't see the lower halves of either Brooklyn or Angela, as they are under the covers... };) As for the whip cream, well, that's a fairly good use for the baster, I suppose... *Evil grin* As for me being a master baster, well... not yet. But you might want to check with Gunjack Valentine's opinion on that baster. };)

DPH: They wear black. Aside from that, they're as anonymous as anyone could be. (Though, their utter lack of distinguishable features might be a description in and of itself...)

Gside: Broadband wouldn't cure that. You see, when the phone rings, it's invariably for my mother. And the phone is placed at the computer. Which means that when the phone rings, I have to move away from the computer... And regarding the egg beater... well... maybe. };)

Josh: A Picasso-style Demona plushie? That would be unseamly. An anatomically correct - COMPLETELY correct - would irk her a lot more. At least if they were mass produced. };) And yes, there are many tools that are not kitchen utensils. Now, where'd I place those soft clotheslines again...? }:)

Well, that's about it for today's post. Oh, and for those interested, click my name: the latest midi I finished lies there; a psalm I've encoded for the CRPG. (All psalms, all the way. There are few compilations of more varying mood music than psalm books...)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, May 27, 2002 08:09:22 AM
IP: 193.217.135.103

Today we woke up at the buttcrack of dawn (9 or so) to drive an hour to see the grandparental units. Had to help set up my grandpa's new iMac and teach him how to get online and how to send email. Hope he can get the hang of it.

He gave me righteous cash for my troubles 8-)

Also bought my brother a Starcraft battle chest today. They sell for about 25-30% of what I paid for it a couple years ago.

I realize I've been incorrectly posting my location as Berkeley. My bad.

replies.

Jaden: <>: Not a mac, I suppose. <<move mouse...move..MOVE YOU STUPID POINTER!>>: You sound like Dilbert's boss.

Warpmind: <<Anatomically correct could be even better>>: I dunno, a picasso style Demona might be pretty funny. Would piss her off a lot more than puck turning her into a human. <>: Who cares if she's malleable? Just get her going. <<pulls forth a turkey baster>>: Masterbaster! <<there are so many more insidious tools than pain>>: Any that aren't kitchen utensils?

Patrick: <<I'm afraid you'd find yourself in the midst of a very nasty bidding war>>: And he'd lose to Aaron.

Spacebabie: <<my wieght is dropping likes flies>>: Yay skinny chicks. <>: Don't or haven't? Don't knock it till you've tried it ;-) <<Typical College boy>>: Yes I am. <<Easy be my Gigolo>>: That's an excellent idea. What can you pay? <<You have that in reverse pal>>: I don't think so. <<While your dreaming why not go for a Buffybot or a Faithbot?>>: What is this "or" word? <<break out the whip cream>>: Hellz yeah. <<Would that make you a master baseter?>>: That's my line. <<Oh good, I need someone with experience>>: right here.

Todd: <<finding out how Demona would respond if she found out about all those humans wanting a life-size soft doll version of her. That would *definitely* be priceless>>: She'd die.

DPH: <<Not if you learned from your mistakes>>: No, failure still sucks.

Gside: <<Depends entirely on whether it's an H model or not>>: If not, I'm not paying. <<I've heard good things about riding crops>>: From who? <<Good music? But that ruins the mood. It's still mosly bass, right?>>: If you want. <<whether it's important to have all all four points bound>>: Not always important. Two is usually enough. <<There's a great cure to that: broadband>>: Or not bathing.

Anonymous: Never. Go away. Stop asking.

Therefore, I have conclusively proven that its faster to download 3.5 meg than to shove it up your ass, ignoring the time it takes to shove it up your ass.
-Mike Margolis

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Encino, CA, US of A
Monday, May 27, 2002 02:26:40 AM
IP: 206.170.217.143

I lurk from time to time and I mainly wanted to ask about the status of the various TGS sagas. Are new stories planned? If so then about when should they show up?
Anonymous
Sunday, May 26, 2002 11:26:25 PM
IP: 12.88.87.26

Mooncat> <<Kind of wonder what a Life Size Demona Soft Doll would go for>>: Depends entirely on whether it's an H model or not. And you might have competition from Fire Storm.

Greg> <<Nope>>: Oh sure, ruin all my illusions.

Imzadi> <<And whip her>>: I've heard good things about riding crops.
<<you can actually listen to GOOD music while you have sex, if you want>>: Good music? But that ruins the mood. It's still mosly bass, right?
<<So what's the point? Where's the benefit?>>: After that's burned, it's good where it is, so you can acquire new stuff without having to get rid of the old stuff.
<<One would probably be fine>>: Depends on whether it's important to have all all four points bound, and whether the person can remain on top of the furniture, or would be on the ground next to the furniture.

Warpmind> <<Braaaaaaaaaaaaains... uh, I mean... Coooooooooooffeeeeeeeeeeee>>: Same thing.
<>: Yeah, yeah. I just deliberately misunderstood.
<<the same temporal/incidental relationship between me sitting down by the computer and the phone ringing, as with others' bathtub and the phone>>: There's a great cure to that: broadband.
<<After all, there are so many more insidious tools than pain>>: I'll get the egg beater.

Spacebabie> <>: That could always change.
<<Cordelia compared Xander to being the group�s Zeppo>>: Ah. But the real question is, Is that better or worse than being a Gummo?
<<Would that make you a master baseter?>>: That's up to you to decide.
<<Oh good, I need someone with experience>>: Man.

And I present you with the ultimate in demon summoning songs. Three Little Maids From School Are We from Gilber and Sullivan's The Mikado.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, May 26, 2002 10:45:27 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Warpmind - <Now, now, those black-dressed gentlemen at your door are ferfectly ordinary gentlemen... don't worry about them at all... };) > Sorry, but they'll have to get in line. I would see them sooner, but there are always black-dressed gentlemen wishing to see me. Can you provide me with a better description of which ones I should be visiting?

I heard something very interesting: in Russia, Steve Forbes's income tax plan was adopted.

GXB - <And I'll agree. I just happen to be a darker shade.> I'll say that I direct my actions to be a lighter side of gray.

Imzadi - <Does pure good exist?> Ok, big suprise, I don't believe in pure good, either. Pure evil, in my book, would amount to seeking to harm everybody all the time. But if you did that all the time, people would eventually avoid you and you couldn't accomplish evil very effectively. To accomplish a greater amount of evil, you must convince several different groups to actively seek to harm other different groups. Basically, that boils down to promoting extreme racism within every group against the rest of the groups. Pure good, in my book, would amount to seeking to help everybody all the time. The only problem with that is you take away the incentive for anyone to do good and therefore, less good gets accomplished. To accomplish a greater amount of good, you must create a group that seeks to help out those are trying to help themselves out of their own problems. I may be wrong, but that's the way I see it. <No its not, because failure sucks.> Not if you learned from your mistakes.

DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, May 26, 2002 10:33:30 PM
IP: 204.94.193.62

Re the Life-Size Demona Doll discussion: What would *really* be interesting would be finding out how Demona would respond if she found out about all those humans wanting a life-size soft doll version of her. That would *definitely* be priceless.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, May 26, 2002 08:19:13 PM
IP: 65.56.173.5

Ya know before the scallops I used to be able eat three slices of pizza and still have room for ice cream. Well now I barley had room for two slices. I checked and my wieght is dropping likes flies.

I Love Scallops!

Plushie piccy is up

Christine>>>Here is hoping Becca will have a speedy recovery.

Crzy <<<Welcome to the dark side... it is your destiny! >:) >>> To quote Buffy “I don’t have a destiney, I’m destiney free really”

Gside<<<Time for your spanking, then? >>>I don’t take spankings. I just give them.<<<The fourth (fifth?) Marx Brother was trying to destroy the world?>>>That was the title of the episode. Cordelia compared Xander to being the group’s Zeppo

Greg<<<Have I become predictable?>>>Yes<<<And you've learned much from her>>>:::Big Evil Grin:::<<<how many ways do you know how to kill?>>>I don’t kill, I torture<<<Here, take this pitch fork instead. it is my gift to you.>>>I’d rather have Saturn’s Glaive.

Josh<<>>Typical College boy<<<How can I exploit you? >>>Easy be my Gigolo<<<I'm sure the rest of us don't help either>>> Everyone helps.<<<You'd know>>>And if you have some low fat cheese sauce on the side you have a healthy alternative to French fries.<<>>So can I.<<<You wish.>>>You have that in reverse pal.<<>> I knew you would be.<<<Make it robotic and semi-intelligent and I'll give you every dime I've got.>>>While your dreaming why not go for a Buffybot or a Faithbot?

Warpmind<<<And if you boil it, it becomes sterilized, to boot?>>>It becomes mushy and yucky<<<Sleeping with gargoyle plushies, huh? *Evil smirk* Is it true about the tails?>>>I hate to burst your bubble but it’s an innocent picture.<<<As for the "naughty girl" issue... This is where we handcuff you to the <Insert favourite piece of furniture here>, right? };)>>>And break out the whip cream.<<<*Smirks unethically and pulls forth a turkey baseter*>>>Would that make you a master baseter?

Patrick<<<you do know there's no return, right? ;)>>>You mean short of amnesia?<<<No, I don't know of anyone who makes gargoyle plushies.>>>Damn!<<<but if you become the first person to do it, I want a Demona!>>>You and everyone else.

Lain<<<but i DO design and hand-sew my own stuffed toys.>>>Kick ass, of coruse you know everyone is going to want their own Demona.

SJ<<>>Oh good, I need someone with experience.

“Oh my god they killed Karamool! You Monsters!”~Shina Shinesmen.
Spacebabie - [<-----See Innocent]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Sunday, May 26, 2002 12:16:12 PM
IP: 65.57.80.236

Dang... just missed the top ten.

Greg B. > Margaret Cho is a stand up comedian. The rest would take too long to explain. Just watch Comedy Central.

Moncat > "Kind of wonder what a Life Size Demona Soft Doll would go for *evil grin* " -- That would depend how limited the quantities were. If there were only one, I'm afraid you'd find yourself in the midst of a very nasty bidding war. >:)

Patrick Toman
Sunday, May 26, 2002 10:35:10 AM
IP: 67.38.241.138

Top 10?
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, May 26, 2002 09:55:55 AM
IP: 204.94.193.16

*Warpmind lurches in.*
Braaaaaaaaaaaaains... uh, I mean... Coooooooooooffeeeeeeeeeeee...

Green Baron: Strong will, huh? You know that's a dead giveaway? (Sorry; that pun was just too obvious...)

DPH: Uh-oh... you're getting close to the mark. Now, now, those black-dressed gentlemen at your door are ferfectly ordinary gentlemen... don't worry about them at all... };)

Lain: Garg plushies? *Starts hoarding fabric and digging for designs.* It must be mine! :)

Gside: I didn't mean that I bathe in the computer; just the same temporal/incidental relationship between me sitting down by the computer and the phone ringing, as with others' bathtub and the phone...

Mooncat: Life sized Demona doll? Whee! I want one! (Anatomically correct could be even better...) };)

Josh: Whip her? *Snort* I doubt that would make Spacebabie so malleable... *Smirks unethically and pulls forth a turkey baster* After all, there are so many more insidious tools than pain... };)

Well, that's about it. Later, gang. *Slurps coffee*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, May 26, 2002 04:20:04 AM
IP: 193.217.136.147

Typo: CR *INFO* update later. :P
LM & FS
Sunday, May 26, 2002 03:15:55 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

8th.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, May 26, 2002 03:14:40 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

TOP TEN!
Real posts (and CR update) later. ;)
Lady Mystic and Fire Storm
Sunday, May 26, 2002 03:14:09 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...HA....ha.....hee. Ok, now for the real post.
I hope everyone is enjoying this weekend and holiday. I know that I am. I just bought a new laptop which won't be delivered for a few weeks. Cost me over $2000, but with all the extras I can't complain.

Imzadi<Best odds I can give you if you're drunk> Actually I'm very lucid when I'm drunk. It's all that pesky time when I'm sober, that's when I'm really confused. ;) As for the rain, well, I keep getting told that the summer in WA is beautiful but no one seems to be able to tell me when that actually is.

Green Baron- THEY GAVE ME CQ DURING THIS WEEKEND! I've been here over nine months and they choose now to start giving out CQ. It's like my section sgt. says, "If you use common sense here you're wrong." :P
<Now I ownder who else would get that> Not many that's for sure. Probably thinking that you had to say all that just to get someone to do push ups.

Ah, falling asleep...must hit...submit button...move mouse...move..MOVE YOU STUPID POINTER!!!!!
Later.

Jaden - [jaden1444@aol.com]
Sunday, May 26, 2002 03:07:32 AM
IP: 172.191.52.141

I bought work clothes today. And that's about it. No fun at all. Oh, except going to the Oakley store. Now *that* was cool. Like a religious experience. Only better. I got an oakley beanie, a "bob" keychain (Chrome Bob is their robot display model), and a couple of shirts. The people working there thought it was so cool that I had all the oakley stuff. And they fixed my shades for free!

Warpmind: <<This is where we handcuff you to the <Insert favourite piece of furniture here>, right?>>: And whip her.

Patrick: <<if you become the first person to do it, I want a Demona>>: So does every male in the fandon. <<they can't all look like Dominique Destine>>: When I take over, I shall order that all real lesbians look like fictional lesbians. <<It's all harmless fun until someone spills a cleaning chemical on sensitive area>>: Just have to hope they put it down before they play.

Jan: <<My entire family is in town>>: That sounds very scary to me. <<yes, you too are a goober>>: Thanks. Had me worried there for a minute.

Green Baron: <>: Don't knock it till you try it. <<how many points do you get for each person?>>: That depends on the scale, who's grading. 10, usually. <<You're assuming he takes anything I say seriously>>: No, I'm not. But I still think he's gonna kick your ass. <<Berkely or Germany..both contain unwashed men and women who don't shave their pits>>: And lots of commies.

DPH: <<It's better to shoot for the stars and miss than to shoot for a shunk and hit>>: No its not, because failure sucks. <<I'll argue that pure evil does not exist>>: Without evil there could be no good. Does pure good exist? <<if we were issued laptop PC>>: no one would vote to pay for that.

Lain: <<that was.. kind of exciting>>: I didn't realize your hair was that interesting.

Sevarius: <>: Then again, maybe we really are the same person. <>: I used to do that. Recently, though, that's not enough for me. <<The bisexual girlfriend joke was a rib on Doug>>: That seems so much less funny now than it seemed when I didn't know that.

Gside: <<Next you'll be telling me women don't wear stiletto heels everywhere>>: And you'll love this one: you can actually listen to GOOD music while you have sex, if you want. Or no music. <<Therefore the stuff you burn is the data and media you have lying around, and works just as well off the ROM as on the disk>>: So what's the point? Where's the benefit? Are you just talking about clean installs? <>: Sure you will. I did. <<It had an ex-con taking a bisexuality quiz.>>: That was funny! <<That can't be good for the circuitry>>: Or his heart rate. <<any two or so pieces of heavy furniture will suffice>>: One would probably be fine.

Metaldemon: <<astonsihed by her creative energies.>>: She gave me the finger.

Mooncat: <<wonder what a Life Size Demona Soft Doll would go for *evil grin*>>: Make it robotic and semi-intelligent and I'll give you every dime I've got.

Greg X: <<Berkeley sucks, why would I want to go there?>>: Visit your friend Josh? <<See, I'm not concerned about that>>: No, but other people are. <<you say that as if it was all an act on my part>>: I didn't say it was. I know what its like to be evil...at some point I just stopped caring. <<Demmie's a lesbian??? Say it ain't so! Bi, I can accept and well, greatly enjoy>>: Amen! <<If I knew who you were talking about, would I want to injure you?>>: No, you wouldn't. She's a very funny asian comedian. <<I'll do it>>: There are a few people I'd like to "help".

Alright, sleep time. I have to wake up at 910 tomorrow morning to see my grandparents.

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.
-Tyler Durden (Brad Pitt), Fight Club

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [@kicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Sunday, May 26, 2002 02:43:16 AM
IP: 206.170.217.18

Fifth

HHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Jaden
Sunday, May 26, 2002 02:40:45 AM
IP: 172.191.52.141

oh oh!!!

FOURTH!!!!!

*zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzz*
lain
Sunday, May 26, 2002 02:19:08 AM
IP: 65.92.88.253

third

>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, May 26, 2002 02:14:52 AM
IP: 65.30.27.68

second
Terrky
Sunday, May 26, 2002 02:07:52 AM
IP: 65.58.54.240

FIRST!!!
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, May 26, 2002 02:04:38 AM
IP: 216.179.3.76