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Had a interesting week. My plt was out training and I almost walked right into a deer. We just looked at each other until I said "what" and she turned around and walked away in that "I don't associate with your kind" type of walk. I then had to help put out a small forest fire before it got out of control. It was fun but my feet were a little hot.
Next week should be interesting too. I have finals and I turn 23 on Wednesday. Where did my life go?

Niamhgold><It's the attack of the mutant computer gremlins> My God, they've taken over my computer!!! Quick get some bright lights, a rubberbank, and some bandaides! BTW did you like California?

Well that's all for now. Have a good weekend.
Later.

Jaden - [jaden1444@aol.com]
Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:47:54 AM
IP: 172.190.42.55

oh.. and firestorm and lady mystic.. if either of you are around somewheres in the next little while (AKA few days) i need to talk to one/both of you about something TGS related. its not superurgent or anything.. at least not for the next month or so. just a question as to how much of my time im wasting.. or not.. if that was ambiguous enough for everyone..
lain
Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:34:54 AM
IP: 65.92.88.127

Spacebabie> <<Not you. Firestorm>>: You did seem to imply everyone.
<<So who wouldn�t you want to see nekkid?>>: None spring to mind, but I reserve the right.
<<You�re a sick lil monkey>>: Yes, yes I am. Thank you.

Niamhgold> <<why men designed high-heels I'll never know>>: Probably something to do with elegance and height. Though you don't have to buy them.
<<every Disney cartoon that has paired up two male characters into a "team">>: Look, it's Ace and Gary.

Lain> <<if i knew what that meant>>: A pure text editor, when it looks at a file, takes each byte and asks "what character does this byte represent?" and outputs it to screen. The fancier text editors let you play around with your text more, but they have to have a way to remember what it looks like. Therefore, they have special statements in each file that tell you what size the paper is, where columns are, and whatnot. They also have to talk about things like italics, font, font size, pictures, and the like in the middle of the text, so they can't just separate all the formating out at the front or back with a special character. Therefore, when you read one of these files as just plain text, all the stuff that makes it pretty in its natural environment shows up as nonsense.

Wilek> <<Click for a fun guest to your next tea party>>: Oh, come on. You could make a better corpse than that.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:14:53 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Wilek: Oh, what a Pandora's box I have opened. So this is what happens when I encourage you to play with Ebay? ;) I'll stick to the live corpses, thank you. Er....well, you know what I mean.

Kitten Guy: Okay, pardon me for having a bit of a dissenting opinion, but exactly why are people calling for this guy's death?

I mean, sure, it was incredibly horrible and sadistic, and he deserves some jail time and a fine and to get his ass kicked....

But it was a f***ing CAT.

He does this to a human being, THEN I will call for his death.

Jan: <<SJ> <<I'm getting soft in my old age.>> OOoO you're crotchy too?? *L* >>

The difference between me & you is that I actually AM "crotchy". ;)
Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Saturday, July 20, 2002 11:47:20 PM
IP: 207.172.11.147

All your EBay are belong to me! Click for a fun guest to your next tea party. ^_^
Wilek
Saturday, July 20, 2002 10:48:07 PM
IP: 128.241.245.34

Oh yeah *forgot*....

The guy charged with burning the kitten looks like just about everyone in our county jail. They all have this "look" about them. It would be nice if he could suffer the same fate as the kitten... along with the people who stood around and laughed about what was happening.
It's appalling to think that there are humans on this planet that could do such a thing. *shakes head in disgust*
Crotchety Jan
Saturday, July 20, 2002 05:29:02 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Spacebabie> <<Don’t you mean Crotchety?>> *LOL* ohmy! I realize now what I said instead! *blushes* yes yes yes, I meant crotchety!! That's what I get for typing/posting early on a Saturday morning when I should still be in bed asleep! ;)

Went to see MIB II and Road to ... ummm somewhere... (Tom Hanks movie) Both were a bit disappointing. Not enough action in either movie to suit me. Fell short of the potential meter, IMO. Oh well, the popcorn was good. *shrugs*
Crotchety Jan - [<-- got it right this time!]
Saturday, July 20, 2002 05:25:56 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Mooncat> That JERK!!! :'( That poor poor kitten!! Oh my god! Why are people so cruel!!! :( I hope everyone who participated in that gets fined!!! That is so horrible. :(

Siryn
Saturday, July 20, 2002 04:30:40 PM
IP: 129.21.145.3

Whoops! Forgot the URL to the updated article. Ooo... he has a scarey face!!! I wouldn't want a guy like that around people, much less defenseless little animals. O_o ...

http://24hour.tri-cityherald.com/24hour/nation/story/469454p-3752977c.html

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Saturday, July 20, 2002 03:25:48 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

ooooo i had a shiney good day yesterday....

first off with the computer and the essay.. then i get on the 2 dundas bus to go to school.. and the bus magically changes into the 11 southcrest or some such nonsense and i end up in the middle of nowhere. now now, i KNOW the 7 wavell bus turns into the southcrest downtown.. so i wouldnt have got ON the 7 wavell.. also the 2 dundas comes about 30 seconds behind the 7 wavell.. so i KNOW the damn bus said 2 dundas when i got on it. so anyways, i get to class an hour late. good class.. go home.. theres a note from London Hydro telling me my cheque bounced. i had set up an account into which i would transfer my bill payment money so that i would never touch it and therefore my bills would get paid. and no cheques would ever bounce ever again. (id had one bounce earlier in the year and didnt like that idea much..). im astounded. off i go to the bank and get a printout of my bank records. sure enough, the money is still sitting there. in the account where its sposed to be. so what the f!ck is the problem? turns out, when i had this account made.. i had another account which i wanted to get rid of. i forked over the card, they destroyed the card in front of me, and told me the account was destroyed. then they told me this account i had just made was in the "savings" position (when youre at a store or bank machine or somesuch) - which was a total lie, because the account that was *REALLY* in the savings position was the account i just had "destroyed". so.. i was putting money in a different account from where the cheques were coming from. technically, the "chequing" account was in such a position that i couldnt have even put money *IN* it. how stupid is that? so now i have 60$ in cheque-bouncing fees, plus 2 bounced cheques on my credit record AND i have to pay "late payment fees" on my hydro and phone bills - ALL BECAUSE THE BANK F!CKED ME OVER! im going to have a little "chat" with my bank, later. *snarl*

anyways.. so that was my day.

oh yeah.. and dad is selling the house *BEFORE* this winter. i told him i didnt want to know because it would stress me out so badly.. hes having my home phone (the one ive had all my life) disconnected on monday :( anyone in the market for a really REALLY nice house in canada? *sighs* i wish *I* was.

kai>> << Sorry about the essay crash>> yeah, thanks << If I can remember, I always try to save after every other paragraph, and back up to Floppy Disk after every session of work>> well.. i wrote it in one session of work.. and i usually DO save things often but.. for some reason i forgot this time. figues this would be the time that would have to come bite me in the butt, eh? :P

josh>> <<Then again, you never know with microsoft>> heh.. yeah. damn microsoft.

patrick toman>> <<A floppy disk is what you will be diagnosed with at the chiropractor's office if you lift with your back instead of your legs when attempting to carry that insanely huge box containing your new PC out of Best Buy>> BOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! ;)

dph>> <<that's neither funny nor correct. It is misaligned discs, not floppy ones>> he was just trying to make a little funny, no worries.

gside>> <<Sure it wasn't just buried under a bunch of formating statements?>> uuuuh.. if i knew what that meant.. i might be able to answer you.. o.O

jan>> crotchy, eh? ;) <<when you dig yourself a hole, it's wise to know when to put down the shovel>> *koff* yeah ;) <<jail antics>> LOL oh dear <<Speaking of Zach>> cool!

crzy>> <> ooo free clothing!

spacebabie: <<GOD BLESS YOU>> *puts down shovel* nooooooo comment. i think ive done enough digging for now ;)

lain
Saturday, July 20, 2002 02:56:29 PM
IP: 65.92.88.127

**Niamhgold enters **

Woo-hoo! MGC's back up! I darn well better participate in it this time.

Finally, I'm in a place where the temperature is *warm* for more than two days in a row. Lots of walking (why men designed high-heels I'll never know, but if Chris and I finally design that time machine from our microwave, I'll go back in time and have my personal elf shoot that guy in the foot), and I fit myself into volunteering at local art museums. Different and fun. That just means my advisor can't harrass me for not making enough of my time ;)

The arms are feeling pretty d@mn good, too. I = pleased.

Mec: <Dragging it out is a tedious and unfeindly process that has been a proven cause to drive people away> Unless you're an art student. <Bloody roomates that sleep in seperate beds and a kid show to boot and people are afraid it will turn their kids gay> Seriously, and it's not any more blatantly obvious than every Disney cartoon that has paired up two male characters into a "team".

Christine: <It's always a flattering honor when someone with artistic ability will put pen to paper to render some character I devised. Clothed or not> It's cartharsis for the sexually frustrated of us, as well ;)

Wilek: <Elmo would make a fabulous serial killer (name link), and I'm pretty sure Oscar has a lot of bodies stashed in that trashcan> Bwhahahaha. And let's not forget what Snuffy's been doing with all those children...

GB: <That's a bad thing?> Well, let's just say that I was a morbid little kid. *Then* my parents went and gave me crayons and a room with yellow wallpaper. 'Nuff said ;)

Revel: <Grab what you can, even if that means stepping on someone else and bitch about waht you don't have and how someone or something is holding you back when it is in fact yourself. And in addition, if someone bumps into you SUE THEM!!!> Even better...if someone *breathes* on you, SUE THEM!!! Who knows if they gave you the cold?! ;)

Spacebabie: <Hey SJ and Jennifer “Crzy” A. agree on something!!!!> Hell is indeed a spooky place. <No nation is in fact perfect, but America is my home and damn it I love it> I'm just too lazy to get up and live somewhere else. America is just good for me because I'm competetive and here the feed the flames--yes I WILL bite someone to get to the top! ;)

Adios
Niamhgold
Saturday, July 20, 2002 12:43:56 PM
IP: 66.87.90.139

Mooncat - Link?

Jan - Methinks you may have meant "Crotchety"... Cuz "Crotchy" brings up a mental image I don't think you wish to be associated with. O.O!! ;)

Spacebabie - GOD BLESS YOU! :)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Saturday, July 20, 2002 12:08:01 PM
IP: 216.249.102.9

Yay we got Cereal.
Some good. Post Fruity Pebbles, and Raison Brand.
and bad
Total and Wheaties...I know its good for you but it tastes like shredded cardboard.

Yes they came with the bobble heads. They have changed with the prizes. Remember how w used to stick our hands way down into the box for them? When I opened the Pebbles there it was right on top of the bag.

I gave it to my dad.

The Sneeze
They walked in tandem, each of the ninety-three students filing into
the already crowded auditorium. With rich maroon gowns flowing and the traditional caps, they looked almost as grown up as they felt. Dads
swallowed hard behind broad smiles, and moms freely brushed away
tears.

This class would not pray during the commencements ----- not by
choice but because of a recent court ruling prohibiting it. The
principal and several students were careful to stay within the
guidelines allowed by the ruling. They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates or their families. The speeches were nice, but they were routine.......until the final speech received a standing ovation.

A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone. He stood still
and silent for just a moment, and then he delivered his speech .. an
astounding -- SNEEZE!

The rest of the students rose immediately to their feet, and in
unison they said, "GOD BLESS YOU."

The audience exploded into applause. The graduating class found a
unique way to invoke God's blessing on their future with or without
the court's approval.

Isn't this a wonderful story? Pass it on to all your friends,
and........... GOD BLESS YOU!!!!

Wilek>>>Oh boy a new way to cook hot dogs!!!

Stephanie<<<uhg... I was eating my lunch for a moment there.>>>sorry but that’s part of the risk of the CR…well eat at your own risk anyways.

Josh<<<Think that would increase or decrease her hatred of America? >>>Don’t know about that I was hoping that it will cause the Jews and the Muslims to have peace discussions cause they would both have a common interest. That they would disagree with her.

Christine<<<Heard a bunch of sirens, then went into the kitchen and observed all the people at the park staring at the neighbor's house. Their back shed's on fire even as I type, and the hoses are going and steam is billowing and all.>>>Reminded me of the time I was visiting my Great Aunt Goldie in Denver. A large house near hers was on fire. Everyone watched as the Firefighters put it out.

Gside<<<You expect me to think?>>> Not you. Firestorm.<<<That's what you say now.>>>True I just need to go to the store. <<<You'd do better asking which females I would'nt want to see nekkid.>>>So who wouldn’t you want to see nekkid?<<<Go on, touch it. It feels good when you do.>>>You’re a sick lil monkey.

Patrick<<<A floppy disk is what you will be diagnosed with at the chiropractor's office if you lift with your back instead of your legs when attempting to carry that insanely huge box containing your new PC out of Best Buy.>>>:::Ears perk up::: What was that? A bad pun??? :::Pulls out Smackers::: Oh Patrick you got some Splainin to do

Jan<<<It sounds as if you have a nail infection.>>>Ack! Well actualy I think when it broke off part of it poked through the still living part of the nail.<<<you're crotchy too?? >>>Don’t you mean Crotchety? Crotchy means something else I think?<<<Good news - no cancer.>>>Good news.

Mooncat>>> Where is the article?

Reply time
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Saturday, July 20, 2002 12:01:26 PM
IP: 65.57.81.107

Remember the guy in Missouri who likes to roast kittens alive for funsies? Here's a slightly updated article.

Lock and load people.

Take a good look at the perp. Is this a guy you want running around free? Gah!

*in best southpark voice*

"He's coming right for us!"

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Saturday, July 20, 2002 11:00:47 AM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Christine> cool puzzle! too rich for my blood right now, though. Geesh, I hate living on a budget :P
Phobias: *L* I finally found the name for mine! Ornithophobia. I knew that there was one, just never could remember the name of it.

Mecord> I will be reading your fic as soon as I can - I skimmed over it quickly and it looks very interesting :)

Spacebabie> It sounds as if you have a nail infection. :\ If so, you'll need to remove all of the acrylic nails and allow your real fingernails to have some fresh air and possible some antibotic cream. This happens when moisture gets between the real nail and acrylic one and a fungus can grow. Nasty stuff and if not taken care of, it could lead to fingernail loss and painful fingers for a while. :(
Sorry if I sound like I'm an authority or trying to be a "know it all"... that's not my intention. You may already know all of this, I'm just trying to be helpful. :)

Lain> when you dig yourself a hole, it's wise to know when to put down the shovel.

SJ> <<I'm getting soft in my old age.>> OOoO you're crotchy too?? *L*

Floppy disks... hehe Anna bought an Apple IIE at an auction that came with a shoebox full of floppy disks! She's going to let Zach use the computer when he gets old enough to bang away and experiment. It's the same type of computer and games that she learned on at school.

Interesting and tiring at work lately... a mini-riot broke out & as a protest to the lock-down, several of the inmates all flushed their toilets at the same time - along with various items in the toilets (including several jail-wear clothing articles) and flooded the entire pod area. The jailers wouldn't clean it up & the inmates had about 6" of sewage for several hours. One inmate claims he had to sleep in it (overcrowding situation at that time) and of course he says he's going to sue for violation of his civil rights. BTW, he's the one who started the riot/protest. He's been interviewing lawyers all week *rolls eyes* Long story short - his cellmate has ratted him out & made told the detective that this guy did not sleep in it, he slept at the foot of a bunk & that he refused when offered to move to a different cell for the night.
They also tore a door off the hinges, threw food at the window and walls, and broke the security camera. All those involved will be charged with destruction of county property and will have to make restitution. The lawsuit... it's a nice joke around the office. ;) He's also suing because a jailer "looked at him wrong", we refused to give him special priviledges of using the office phone or allow a visitation from his girlfriend on a NON-scheduled visitation day, and the shower was too hot... Yeah yeah.. bite me. He told a jailer that he can get at least $50,000 from the county or 6-figures if it goes to trial. *snickers* you betcha'. Welcome to Barry County, buddy! we don't give money away and we don't settle out of court.

Had an elderly man in the lobby because of a custody dispute between the son and daughter. While they were outside arguing with the Dept. of Aging guy - the elderly man took a leak in the corner of the lobby! *L* That's when I noticed that the man had his pants on wrong side out! Poor guy didn't have a clue as to where he was at. I felt bad for him. They should have been arguing over which nursing home to put him in. It was very evident from the stench and condition of the elderly man that neither the daughter nor son was taking very good care of him. =(

I saw the doctor yesterday for the follow-up from my stomach test. Good news - no cancer. :) Bad news - further testing to see if I have this rare stomach disorder that starts with a "z" and has about 50 letters in it's name (I match most of the symptoms for it) and if I do have it, they will begin the search for the tumor that causes it. If I don't have this disorder, then it's a lifetime of bad stomach problems with trying to figure out a combination of medication to ease the pain. Diet does not effect my stomach - I've tried it all. You'd at least think that no more than I eat, I'd be skinny - but no such luck.

I'm going to go see MIB II today and I think I'll hang around and catch "Road to Perdition" too. It looks like it might be a good one to watch as well. I don't get to see movies as often as I'd like since I babysit Zach on Sundays. My Saturdays are usually too busy to take time out to see a movie, but today I'm going to.

Speaking of Zach - he is beginning to crawl! He prefers standing up more, but he needs to learn to crawl before he begins walking. He's not ready to walk just yet - but he sure tries! He is also pulling himself up on things, so it's time to baby-proof some of the areas of the house (padding placed around the fireplace hearth, etc.) He is finally starting to sleep thru the night as well, which gives Anna some much needed rest.

Michael will leave for basic training in December. He thought he should quit his job now... yeah right - nice try buddy, but no cigar. *L* He'll work until Sept. 1st and then spend the rest of the time until basic getting his room cleaned up and personal items packed away. I will be bulldozing his room (the basement) shortly after he leaves.
Anna's house closing should be by the end of August, so I'll get the bulldozer out early...
When she leaves, she will be taking 3 of the 5 dogs and that will help tremendously around my house! She has 2 min pins and she'll be taking Michael's pug dog. I will be left with the 2 chihuahuas. :)
Maybe I'll go ahead and get my new carpet after she leaves :) naw, I'll still should wait until the addition is built on to the family room *impatient*

Speaking of bulldozing, I need to start on my own bedroom.... O_O Too many "collectibles" and no where to put them!

"If you get to thinking you're a person of some
influence, try ordering somebody else's dog around."
~Will Rogers~
Crotchy Jan
Saturday, July 20, 2002 10:08:54 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Hey, folks! Tim's got an auction going and now's your chance to pick up a Gargoyles Puzz 3-D of the Aerie Building. Only available in Canada, sold quite well at previous Gatherings. Clickie or go to http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRedirect&item=1749846573, because the bidding ends on Tuesday!
Christine - [<--- Puzz 3-D Aerie Building!]
Saturday, July 20, 2002 12:39:37 AM
IP: 65.239.13.233

Wilek> <<Way too long since I've used him>>: I second that sentiment!
<<You mean this thing isn't an apocalyptically horrible torture device?>>: Just about anything can be. It just wasn't originally designed as such, and was also employed for much different uses.
<<the agony of one's victim is ever so sweeter if it started out as ecstasy and went horrificatingly wrong>>: Ah. Good point.

Lain> <<the format in which it is saved is TOTALLY unreadable by any program on my computer>>: Sure it wasn't just buried under a bunch of formating statements?

Imzadi> <<So unless your document included funky formatting>>: The more baroque text editors tend to put in funky formatting for no reason at all.

Leo> <<Floppy disk...? You mean those flimsy 5-1/4" squares with the big hole in the center?>>: They also made 8" floppies. And 3.25" also count as floppies, of course. But do you know what a flippy is?

DPH> <>: He's a Machead. Apple decided that floppies were completely obsolete and stopped having them standard on their machines.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, July 20, 2002 12:03:20 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Patrick - that's neither funny nor correct. It is misaligned discs, not floppy ones.

Imzadi - Don't make me laugh. I don't get what the joke about floppy disks is about.

Wilek - <Ahh. Very nice.> Be carefull about the aim, especially against using against friends of mine.

DPH
AR, USA
Friday, July 19, 2002 10:46:29 PM
IP: 204.94.193.14

:: peeks in ::

A floppy disk is what you will be diagnosed with at the chiropractor's office if you lift with your back instead of your legs when attempting to carry that insanely huge box containing your new PC out of Best Buy.

:: slips back out before tomatoes can be thrown ::
Patrick Toman
Friday, July 19, 2002 08:16:26 PM
IP: 67.38.250.36

Floppy disk...? You mean those flimsy 5-1/4" squares with the big hole in the center? Nope never heard of em. But in 1983 my family had a Commodore Vic-20 with a cassette tape drive.
Leo
Friday, July 19, 2002 04:34:46 PM
IP: 172.132.101.69

Floppy disk...I know that term. Can't remember for the life of me where I know it from, though.

I guess I should point out that any text file should be readable (if with added garbage) by any other text editor. So unless your document included funky formatting, you can try to use wordpad to open it up. With some cleaning, it might work.

Then again, you never know with microsoft. This is why I use either Appleworks or TextEdit to write papers.
Josh
Friday, July 19, 2002 04:14:00 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

Hey guys. ^_^

The MGC (monthly gargoyles art contest) forum is up! So you can start chatting in it if you like. ^_^ It is on an ezboard (because most of the fan artists told me they preferred that type of forum as to a comment room type. :) )

The webpage will be up by the first of august. (at least I hope it will be.. ^_^;;)

Hope you guys like it. I'm _REALLY_ looking foreward to ahving MGC back. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. ^_^;; I'm sending off a temp page today for Guan to put up on mgc.gargoyles-fans.org so hopefully that will be up too! ^_^

Enjoy!
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Friday, July 19, 2002 02:58:57 PM
IP: 129.21.145.3

Christine: Steal away. That statement has become a staple in my local gaming group for evaluating the more "colorful" people of fiction and truth-stranger-than-fiction.

Lain: Sorry about the essay crash. If I can remember, I always try to save after every other paragraph, and back up to Floppy Disk after every session of work. I lost too many hours of work back in High School to let anything disappear like that when I got to college.

This message has been brought to you in part by:

Ritualize Backup Procedures - Not just for engineers with pocket-protectors anymore!

AND

Floppy Disks - because Windows can only eat what you're willing to feed it! Floppy Disks.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, July 19, 2002 02:48:48 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Mecord - good luck with the fan fic. I know I enjoy Princess Alexandria's fiction a lot, and she does something similar with an almost daily posting of her TRINITY saga. I can't wait for her to get her home computer fixed so she can get back to her regular schedule, instead of the twice a week dealie she's limited to now (has to use a school computer).

I really love Princess A's concept. The pace is a killer, or I'd try something similar in format. I wanted to do a "Hunter's Diary" along the same lines, but my other stories need finishing first.

Speaking of which, I've got chores to do so I can get to writing tonight. eek!

later people
Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Friday, July 19, 2002 12:31:17 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Mecord > sirens, LOL, I guess that would have explained the glazed expressions on the skateboard kids. Though I suppose there are other explanations for that ...

Should have a small site update later today.

Sabledrake Deadline > there's still time to send in stories, reviews, articles, and art for the August "villainy" issue. Deadline is Friday, August 2. Issue will be posted on Monday, August 5th.

Interesting link on phobias; clickie.
Christine - [<--- everything to be afraid of]
Friday, July 19, 2002 10:44:24 AM
IP: 65.239.13.70

yeah.. so that essay? 12 midnignt.. went to save it.. and my beautiful, wonderful computer decided it would be the BEST time to crash.. RIGHT in the middle of the save. so i lost it. *poof* naturally, my computer saves a backup copy but, this afterall, microsoft - so the format in which it is saved is TOTALLY unreadable by any program on my computer. so.. oh well. i wrote an email to my prof explaining what happened, and that i wouldnt be handing it in today and would accept late penalties (since its my fault and, if i was smarter, i would have been saving it all the way along.)
on a bright note.. the next opportunity to hand it in is tuesday.. and ill only get one "day late" penalty.. so i have lots of time to make it better. better to hand it in late than hand in poor work, i think.
lain
Friday, July 19, 2002 09:28:51 AM
IP: 65.92.89.79

Critsine>> <Heard a bunch of sirens> I’ve been writing too much lately, when you said that I thought of the mystical sirens and got this strange picture of your neighborhood being attracted to a flaming death. I hope the firemen were wearing earplugs. :)

Wilek>> The word “probe” in that ebay thing is a little scary. Makes you wonder if alien abductions aren’t just repressed memories of old fashioned psychological treatment.

***** YET ANOTHER SHAMELESS STORY PLUG *****

I’ve been tossing an idea around for a while now. A weekly episode of a very large gargoyle story. Each episode will be just a page or two long, just long enough to keep peoples interest and do some plot developing. So here I go. Everything should go fairly smoothly until school starts at least, after that we’ll see. Without further ado I give you the first episode of….

BROOKLYN’S QUEST: UNSETTLED

Hope you’ll take some time to read it, you never know, you just might like it. I’ll give you the first one free. Everyone is doing it. Come on, you know you want to…. :)

Comments welcome and encouraged. Click my name to go there direct.

***** END SHAMELESS PLUG *****

Mecord - [mecordlein@lycos.com]
Friday, July 19, 2002 02:26:49 AM
IP: 12.255.11.48

<--Way too long since I've used him.

Leo & FS> You mean this thing isn't an apocalyptically horrible torture device? Well horsefeathers. But hmm, if I up the voltage...

DPH> Ahh. Very nice. 8) <<Since I've done my part of the bargain, I'm assuming you will get DC off my back PERMANTLY.>> I'll do my level best, but he's acquired the most unnerving talent for evading me. There's reason to believe he's offered his soul to an infernal being in exchange for vast power. But the warhead I plan to attach to the DNA tracking missiles should take care of him until I find a permanent solution. >:)

Christine> <<That is a marvelous quote that I just may have to steal, if okay with you.>> I second that request! ^_^

Gside> <<Oh sure, ruin Wilek's day, why don't you.>> Oh I don't know--the agony of one's victim is ever so sweeter if it started out as ecstasy and went horrificatingly wrong. >:)

And on that simply marvellous note, I give you me newest EBay treasure. (The description for some reason reminds me of Bill Murray's role in Little Shop Of Horrors.)
Wilek
Friday, July 19, 2002 12:13:54 AM
IP: 128.241.245.34

Christine> <<part Whose Line and part Harry Potter and part at a laundromat>>: You want to have improvisational sex with our wizard father on an unbalanced washer? Or at least that's what Freud's telling me.

Spacebabie> <<Think before you post>>: You expect me to think?
<<How soft?>>: Very soft. I have to do all the work now.
<<Do you have a Red Lobster? Or a Blimpie?>>: Yup.
<<We have them in Florida, just not in my house>>: That's what you say now.
<<You want to see her nekkid as well?>>: Heck yeah. You'd do better asking which females I would'nt want to see nekkid.
<<I�m not touching that one>>: Go on, touch it. It feels good when you do.

Toku Kai> <>: I didn't want to spend the time getting into them all.

Fire Storm> <<And I also remember hearing that some were used for pleasure too>>: Oh sure, ruin Wilek's day, why don't you.

Imzadi> <<For two slayers, I'd make an exception>>: And here I thought I had you partly figured out.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, July 18, 2002 11:16:06 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Kaioto > <> That is a marvelous quote that I just may have to steal, if okay with you.

Interesting day. Heard a bunch of sirens, then went into the kitchen and observed all the people at the park staring at the neighbor's house. Their back shed's on fire even as I type, and the hoses are going and steam is billowing and all. Very nice. Comforting, eh what?

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:34:39 PM
IP: 65.239.13.97

Stephanie - You have been direct subscribed to the list. I can confirm that you are a member and you should be receiving an email from the list pretty soon.

Wilek - *hands Wilek a device that looks like a small hand held remote*. Press the button when you wish to make connect with my supplier of DNA scanning missiles. Sorry, there is a barrior around that area that limits travel: basically all portals/gateways to that area but must originate in that area to get around the damn barrior. I'd advise you to send a primitive robot through the portal to make contact when it opens. The key is the people want samples of DNA because there are working on technology to fool their advanced DNA scnners. I traded part of my genetic code (1st 10%) for unlimited supply of DNA scanning missiles. I'd advise you to offer parts of a genetic code, NOT the full thing in return for unlimited supply of DNA scanning missiles. Since I've done my part of the bargain, I'm assuming you will get DC off my back PERMANTLY.

I finally got the damn moron to admit he is waking up because he wants control. Oops, he shouldn't have said that.

offended lurker - Can you get a new name?

Green Baron - <While working conditions in the Industrial Revolution are harsh to us today, they porved a real improvement to subsitsnece farming and past working conditions. Sure they were poor and in near-slavery conditions, but compared to what existed before....crippling rural poverty along with living in the country blech, or harsh urban poverty, where living conditions are a bit improed. Ask any medeival serf where they would want to live.> Don't tell me you believe in playing real low wages to people in an area where jobs are scarce.

Taleweaver - That's why I'm a Centrist. I believe in some government intervention to correct the excesses of greed.

Yooper - <The judge, prosecuter, and jury in that trial are under the protection of U.S. marshals to this day. You want to try this with 300 people? This is actually a case where a tribunal may be more fair, since it will be far more difficult for Al Qaeda to yank the jury around with death threats.> Hey, how can I get in on that deal?

Kaito - <It isn't easy being a Superpower. Being the tallest kid on the block means your easier to hit with rocks in a crowd, not that everyone looks up to you. It doesn't make the USA infallible, but the country performs a lot of important functions that the rest of the world would rather not do, but still wants to benefit from.> That's the problem. We don't necessarily want that job because of the politics involved.

Green Baron - <Parents teach tehir kids to fear what is different, instead of being curious an dinquisitive and instead of shunningthe kid, they should be curious and even ask persoanl questions that emberass the parents, but kids can do that and should.> yep, the kids should. I remember a talk show recently was talking about that in Arkansas, it's taboo (the situation is getting less taboo) for a white man and a black woman or a black man and a white women to get married, but there is no problem with a white man marrying an Asian woman. Things that point out hyprocrisy should be encouraged.

All right, I finally caught up.
DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, July 18, 2002 09:44:50 PM
IP: 204.94.193.25

damnit! That was from me 8-)
Josh
Thursday, July 18, 2002 06:49:59 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

Gside: <<He only goes for one at a time>>: For two slayers, I'd make an exception. <<How else am I supposed to amuse myself>>: With hot chicks. Same way I do.

Spacebabie: <<Maybe we should send her to the middle east>>: Think that would increase or decrease her hatred of America?

Kaioto: <<purely malicious evil>>: More like psychotic.

Fire Storm: <>: Well, now we have way more info than we ever wanted about what you an LM do in bed.

Okay, that's it for the day.
Anonymous
Thursday, July 18, 2002 06:49:44 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

STEPHANIE - Since whatever method you used to subscribe to the list apparently hasn't worked (then again, Yahoo does have a few bugs in it), we'll probably have to direct subscribe you to it.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, July 18, 2002 06:30:24 PM
IP: 67.28.88.250

French Revolution and American Revolution: The French Revolution (as I was taught) had been simmering for quite a while before it 'officially' got under way. Many of those who were the ideological founders of the French Revolution had to leave France and work from other countries. Guess what: some went to the USA where they talked to Americans...
Then again, it is a well-noted fact that the history taught in Québec is skewed in favour of the French.

Spacebabie: "it wasn’t a good break cause it was oozing pus" uhg... I was eating my lunch for a moment there.

Todd: I acknowledge receipt of your e-mail. I appreciate any help you or the others can give me so I can start participating.

Not much to say today; probably a good thing; I am very tired; I have not had my shock treatment today ;)
Au revoir.
Stephanie D - [SCurtin@icao.int]
Montréal, Québec, Canada
Thursday, July 18, 2002 04:56:47 PM
IP: 192.206.28.62

Wilek: Yeah, Leo is right. And I also remember hearing that some were used for pleasure too...

There is also that story about people now a days using the output wires from a stereo's speakers to do the same thing.
I know for a fact that electric shocks can be enjoyable, and I have heard of them being used to induse orgasms... and that probes implanted directly into the brain for stroke and be re-trained by the brain to give the brain lots of pleasure...

People are weird.

**BZZZZ ZAP!**
Mmmm... 10,000 volt goodness
Fire Storm
Thursday, July 18, 2002 04:51:17 PM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Wilek:<<E-Bay>>I think I heard something having to do with treatment for hysterical women in the 20s. (I'm not making this up. I would NEVER make a sexist remark. *innocent grin*)
Leo
Thursday, July 18, 2002 04:42:38 PM
IP: 172.159.14.26

Super Happy EBay Time! Hehe, I hope I can get this one hooked up in time for Mr. Disconnect's slumber party...
Wilek
Thursday, July 18, 2002 03:26:56 PM
IP: 128.241.245.34

damn, these debates are still going on?

The "Lain is an evil american-hating canadian surrender-monkey or somesuch" debate: Lain thinks the US is lame. If you live in the US, odds are at one point or another you've thought of something that was lame too. Get over it.

The "HIV positive muppets are evil" debate: Fine, whatever. No one cares if you'll let your kids watch it. Jim Hensen CAN'T roll over in his grave. He's dead. And if he is influencing this in any way, you'll be able to tell by the subtle, totally un-PC jokes that come up.
Josh
Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:44:04 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

Lain:

<<unless im again missing some sort of subtle wording here.. the question "what was wrong with what he did?" is not "why would someone do that?">>

Um, I think what you might be missing is sarcasm. I seem to remember a work that proposed solving the economic problems of Ireland by cooking the infants and selling them as a delicacy to the nobles of England. "A Modest Proposal" by John Swift, if I recall correctly. Considered to be a cornerstone example in teaching British Lit. and English literature in general.

Sarcasm often makes a more profound impact if you don't follow it up with "-NOT!" or "... you moron." And, on the Internet, putting sarcasm in tags "<Sarcasm> </Sarcasm>" is typically preceived as condescending to folks. Hence, oftentimes, sarcasm is left as dead-pan commentary.

But, sarcasm in print has always been a more delicate literary convention than sarcasm in voiced communications.

<>

I'm not sure if I follow you. I certainly wouldn't post that article in the manner in which FIRE STORM posted it. I've seen sarcasm fail miserably on the Internet for years. It is a phenominon I don't see even a 10th as much in paper-print, for some reason.

I find the manner in which I posted my response seems quite reasonable. Of course, I used sarcasm in my post (in subtle way, to try and point out that Fire Storm seemed to me to be typing in sarcasm).

I think you've just misread, rather than someone mis-typed, in this case. Happens on the Internet a lot.

Spacebabie: Rule #3. Never be subtle or literary on the Internet. What works in paper-print often fails on the Web, for some reason.

Gside: I have issues. JackaL had SuBsCrIpTiOnS. I'm not sure if we'll be able to sort the permanent designations from the temporary ones induced by outside chemicals, however.

Mooncat: I dunno. The gargoyle's character Jackal was the scariest of the Pack. He really seems like the kind of guy who would boil puppies alive to relax. I always got the impression he was about as close as folks get to purely malicious evil in Gargoyles.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, July 18, 2002 11:57:42 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Aggghhh!!!! One of my nails broke off yesterday. It was one of my acrylics, the left pinky but it wasn’t a good break cause it was oozing pus. Thank the Good Dude that We have a small medical kit, I cleansed it. Neosporined it and bandaged it.

I’m actually worried about the BOY. He has been acting NICE all of the sudden and going to bed early. He’s not feeling well.

Funniest commercial. It’s for a local salon Gary Lambert. In it there is this guy with a paper bag over his head because of his bad hair or “Bad head” Then when he got his hair fixed he said he got “Good head”. Tag for the commercial. “Get Good head at Gary Lambert’s”

Replies
Firestorm<<>>Dude two tips for survival..
1.Look before you leap. 2. Think before you post.<<<The dark, dark twisted side that likes disruption and chaos. >>>Wich is most of you?

Lain<<<what about all the bilingual people?>>>Vanilla Swirl???

Green Baron<<<admit I do owe you. I plan to be at G03, but I can't give you soem of what I promised, >>>Just a hello and a visit was all that I asked.

SJ<<<but I changed my mind before posting it. I'm getting soft in my old age.>>>How soft? :::gives a dirty wink:::

Gside<<<We have many good places, just not some of the more recent chains.>>>Do you have a Red Lobster? Or a Blimpie?<<<Thank you for two reasons not to go to Florida.>>>We have them in Florida, just not in my house.<<<Yeah, but Godiva seems to hog all the PSL.>>>You want to see her nekkid as well?<<<How else am I supposed to amuse myself?>>>I’m not touching that one.

Christine<<<okay, okay, I guess you caught me ... ; ) >>>:::Laughs evily::::<<<Whose Line and part Harry Potter and part at a Laundromat>>>Whoa and I thought my dream with Owen dating A girl who was spliced with alien DNA…the weirdest part was that…OWEN WAS ON A DATE!

Jennifer<<<SJ - Dude, it scares the hell out of me when I TOTALLY agree with you. eek! >>>In a strange and wonderful way Lain brought Peace to two enemies…Maybe we SHOULD send her to the middle east.<<>>Oh she would LOVE that.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Thursday, July 18, 2002 11:05:59 AM
IP: 67.25.49.207

SJ - Dude, it scares the hell out of me when I TOTALLY agree with you. eek!

Anyone have lain's mailing address? I want to send her this shirt... (Clicky!)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:30:37 AM
IP: 216.249.100.173

Finally saw the baseball gargoyles Gatorade commercial. Kinda cool, I thought.

Spacebabie > okay, okay, I guess you caught me ... ; )

Working on adventures for Dragonflight. One GURPS Fantasy set in the MageLore world (Dragons of the Marsh, the scenario is called) and the other what I'm calling GURPS Hogwarts. Aimed at the younger con-goers. If they work at D.flight, I'll run them again at RadCon. Always fun. I have more MIB points than I know what to do with. Must visit Warehouse 23 and spend some.

Speaking of Warehouse 23, Tim and I laughed ourselves sick over that South Park episode with Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I'm rambling. Whee! Had weird dreams all day, part Whose Line and part Harry Potter and part at a laundromat. Don't ask me. Jungian psychology only goes so far ; )

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:53:27 AM
IP: 65.239.47.181

Spacebabie> <<being part of a Slayer sandwich>>: Not Imzadi. He only goes for one at a time.
<<Thank you for another reason not to go to NJ>>: We have many good places, just not some of the more recent chains.
<<Don�t have them>>: Thank you for two reasons not to go to Florida.
<<Nekkid Aiden?>>: Yeah, but Godiva seems to hog all the PSL.
<<Are you implying Josh is gay>>: How else am I supposed to amuse myself?

Mooncat> <>: There was a poster in here who went by the name JacKal. Rather a combatative personality.

And the mp3 is a bit for the Canadians. Walking Wounded by Tea Party.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:46:20 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

sj>> <<If I was a more superstitious person, I'd assume that it's God's way of warning me about opening dialogues I don't really want. Pandora's box and all>> or.. its the Good LORDs divine hand of protection sheltering me from your wrath.. one or the other, anyways ;) <> perhaps. but when you get it sorted out, ill still be here to talk if you want to. id like to get some stuff straight so we dont feel like we have to fight all the time.. its no fun :( <<Yeah, I actually had a whole post written up explaining exactly why I think she's a bitch, but I changed my mind before posting it>> if you still have it, feel free to send it (in email, though, so everyone else can have a rest from us :P) ive wanted to talk to you for a long time so, if youre willing also, now might be a good time.

more responses tomorrow.. or after friday when my bigass essay is due :(

in other news.. i got 85% on the OTHER essay i handed in on monday. yay!

*attempts bed again*
lain
Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:08:51 AM
IP: 65.92.92.19

re - Firestorm and kitten.

O_o ... geez. I finally took a look at that link. I hope they take the guy who did this and slowly peel his skin off, then pop him onto bed of hot coals and roast him up nice and evenly tender, then feed him to all neighborhood's hungry feline population.

I'm glad MO has animal abuse laws that could get him some jail time. I'm reminded of that one group of people who viciously tortured their neighbor's little dog, and laws about animal abuse were so light they got hit with a mere misdemeanor charge.

Torture for torture's sake is so sick.

I actually don't see Jackal as being interested in animal abuse though. He seems more the practical type. Cruel and happy to hurt in the course of a job, but not the type to go out of his way to do stuff like that unless there was some kind of practical gain for him. Hyena on the other hand, I could see as into recreational harm, but probably aimed at people rather than animals.

I think people who commit that kind of animal torture should be painfully executed. Though I'd settle for a quick and clean kill just to get them out of the world. If people are willing to do something so awful to an animal, torturing a living thing so hideously for amusement, they are very likely a danger to other humans as well. Such sickness should be put down immediately, for the good welfare of everyone, not just as a punishment for their misdeed.

okay, later
MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:48:30 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Fire Storm: Ha! That's a damn funny link!

I think you would definitely enjoy "The Kitten Song" by Stephen Lynch.

Spacebabie: <<SJ<<<Cause I have an idea that my retorts to her would probably be better off sent in email than posted here. >>>Keeping things civilized by going the e-mail route? The boy has grown up.>>

Yeah, I actually had a whole post written up explaining exactly why I think she's a bitch, but I changed my mind before posting it. I'm getting soft in my old age.

lain: <<sj>> i tried to re-send and it gave me the same error message :( sorry, dude. >>

If I was a more superstitious person, I'd assume that it's God's way of warning me about opening dialogues I don't really want. Pandora's box and all. I guess it's for the best.
Sevarius Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:24:31 PM
IP: 207.172.11.147

Leo - thanks for the heads up. all taken care of *^_^*

Pat - Hensen, absolutely agree. No one can say for sure what his take on the current events would be. Though given the spirit of Seseme Street and it's past unflinching approach to other serious topics and how they affect children, I'd dare say Hensen would be one of the core people in the Seseme Street production crew behind the creation of the new Muppet.

Meet the Freeples -- that movie absolutely traumatized me. I had to watch it a couple of times to really believe they did all they did. eek!!! Still gives me the oogies. I always suggest it whenever my friends talk about doing a shock or shlock movie nite. Just thinking about it... eeek!!!

okay, on a deadline, gotta boogie.

bye
MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:07:14 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

"Henson would be rolling over in his grave. Henson did shows for kids about kid issues, the type of issues that didn't pull them into the dark of reality as we know it today."

First of all... how dare anyone attempt to speak as to what Jim Henson would and would not do were he still with us? The only people who are qualified to offer any insight at all on whether or not Jim Henson is "rolling over in his grave" are his son who now runs the Creature Shop and the other members of his family. And so far I haven't seen any news reports quoting them as having any commentary on the Sesame Street topic. Though I'm sure they would have to be involved, since they would be designing the new muppet.

Second of all... "did shows for kids about kid issues"? Um... say what now? Remember "The Muppet Show"? Both incarnations... 'cause the second was even edgier than the first? How about "Dark Crystal" Or the Creature Shop's work in those three "Ninja Turtles" movies? And what about the various muppet movies? Just try to tell me that Tim Curry's campy performance in "Muppet Treasure Island" appealed solely to preschool kids. To quote Al Borland, "I don't think so, Tim."
To make a long story short... "Sesame Street" is just one part of the Henson legacy, and depending on where you look, Henson's audiences run the full range of young AND old alike.

And that's my little comment and/or rant for the day.
Patrick Toman
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 10:50:18 PM
IP: 67.38.250.36

Mooncat: I think your site got spammed.
Leo
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 10:37:16 PM
IP: 172.156.254.29

Throwing in two more cents on the Sesame Street. I think Mecord's statement hit me between the eyes. Henson would be rolling over in his grave. Henson did shows for kids about kid issues, the type of issues that didn't pull them into the dark of reality as we know it today. Mecord's right. Henson wouldn't like this.
LA
Of Insanity
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 09:38:15 PM
IP: 67.201.141.175

Stephanie D> <French Revolution 'inspired' the American Revolution> Was that a simple mistake on your part or did you get that from your history books? The American Revolution inspired the French Revolution. I thought everyone knew that.
offended lurker
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 05:50:47 PM
IP: 63.224.56.199

Stephanie: I had a counselor one year at camp named dorcas. An Aussie chick.

My tongue was red after 2 weeks of biting it 8-)
Josh
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 05:16:58 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

Stephanie> <<French Revolution 'inspired' the American Revolution>> Couldn't have. French Revolution - 1789. American Revolution - 1770s.
Aris Katsaris
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 05:13:47 PM
IP: 212.205.240.29

Dorcus is someone's first name?!

Wilek: You seem to have Socialism confused somewhat with Communism.

Green Baron: 'Welfare Capitalism' is Moderate Socialism that does not sound like Communism (see Wilek's post).
"war machine and a poverty relief progarm” Also, population control. Throughout history, the military has fulfilled these functions. The Roman Empire had a great army; it conquered about the entire known world to gain land resources and human resources (slaves, women). Once the battles were done, the young, victorious Roman soldiers were given a wife from the conquered people and conquered land to farm. Quite a retirement plan: start the poor fifth son of a poor worker and finish a landowner.
"American Revolution inspired the French Revolution" You got it backwards; the French Revolution 'inspired' the American Revolution. I do not remember if the French Revolution 'got bloody' before or after the American Revolution started.
"Canadians are consumers of many American goods” If you saw what happened to my favorite radio station, you would see that we do not always have a choice. It is a fact that American is bigger, stronger, and more omnipresent than Canadian things. I now have no alternative BUT to listen to an American radio station; it costs extra on our cable bill to subscribe to 'Canadian Content' (yes, there is such a thing) television stations instead of NBC, FOX, ect.; etc.
Most of the time, Americans do not realize that they are shoving their culture down our throats; they are just being the omnipresent Americans that they are. (Disclaimer: I am not against all things American; after all, Gargoyles is very American) Canadian humour, for instance, is very different from American humour. I _can’t stand_ American sit-coms. However, Spider Robinson, for example, has to set all of his stories in the USA because that is where his publishers are.
**Shameless plug for the Callahan’s Series and Telempath**
“affection for the Ontario or Canadian flag” I have great affection for the Canadian flag, I also have great affection for my family’s coat-of-arms; however, I (and lain too perhaps) do not understand when Americans talk about their flag like it is literally a bullet-proof vest (that is how it sounds to us). Our flags/coats-of arms are just symbols like the icons on my desktop.

Kaioto: "America as a meat-shield" You seem to forget that the USA relies solely on NORAD for missile tracking. Canada also sends the same proportion of its army on ‘American Wars’ such as to Afghanistan; we are just a much smaller country. We pull our weight.
Should Iceland or Greenland or wherever invade Canada, the US would offer aid, after we put up our own defense. Allies aid; they do not fight wars for each other.

Gabriel: Canada is also a very socialist state, but we were not in your list. Just do not start me ranting about the police.

lain: "i still prefer introverted national pride” That is because Canadians tend to be quieter than Americans. The ‘I Am Canadian’ commercials were immensely popular in the States, but were mostly a flop here.
"bilateral comission on halibut quotas” And Softwood Lumber. **raging** Americans accusing us of subsidies just because we do not follow their laws; all the while clear-cutting our old-growth forests**grumble**

Au revoir.
Stephanie D - [SCurtin@icao.int]
Montréal, Québec, Canada
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 05:04:46 PM
IP: 192.206.28.62

And now for something completely different:

Woohoo! 20 GB iPods!

Jaguar on August 24th (though I'll have it as soon as it goes GM, I'm sure)!

iCal PIM!

My mac.com email addy is going away because I don't want to pay $100/yr for it...bastards.

None of the other announcements made by Steve matter much to me, so I'll avoid mentioning them.
Josh
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 04:46:22 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

Firestorm> There is a level of evil in the world and this is evident of a depravity where there is only one way to deal with them. Those people are the worst kind of rednecks. To kill a defenseless animal, especially a kitten or a puppy is indefensible.

Such people should be sent to a place like Auschwitz or one of Pol Pot's camps. These are the people that grant credence to any notions of subhumanity. Whatever reservations I may have about executing someone who murders other adult humans is one thing, but I have no issue about having that redneck on a grill with the neighbors and I might even supprt making them eat their own ugly redneck kids before they are grilled so that my cats can have a unique delicacy.

If my own child willfully abused a kitten, puppy, reptile for malicious reasons, I would order my other children to kill the bastard. I have no tolerance for such despicable behavior. Rarely does a wild beast torment another animal for fun. I expect my Clan to act better than what is expected of the average human.

Spacebabie> I admit I do owe you. I plan to be at G03, but I can't give you soem of what I promised, on account of Rachael ;)

Revel> <<Grab what you can, even if that means stepping on someone else and bitch about waht you don't have and how someone or something is holding you back when it is in fact yourself. And in addition, if someone bumps into you SUE THEM!!!>> That sounds more like human nature, but some of that is pretty sad and uniquely American. We are a nation of lawsuits, class envy, and peopel expecting to be owed something. You're poor and you want to be rich; wait until you have a few hundred thousand in teh bank before you have kids. You can't afford College; join the military. To paraphrase Scarface, America is one big p**** waiting to be f*cked, and the opportunitis abound if you are taught about them. Children need to learn early on about seizing the opportunities that exist.

America is where somebody born in a Mississippi trailer can become a NY socialite, simply by not having kids, borrowing an Etiquette book from the library, exploiting their poverty to get financial aid, and becoming an Epsicopalian :)

Instead we want guarantees, but miss the opportunities.

Lain> <<oh no no, you had them lots before, this isnt a recent thing. its just been getting suffocating lately, thats all.>> I don't see the big deal there. IF you dirve through some parts of New Orleans, you'll see plenty of homes with statues of the Virgin Mary in their yard. Now, I put the Virgin Mary way way above the US Government, but I don't think it is meant to alienate other people. I guess I don't see the big deal. I'm not offended by seeing German flags on the buses in Deutschland. If there is a joint military function, I'll salute the German flag, too.

<<maybe, but could you tell me exactly how a piece of fabric with red and white stripes, a little blue and some stars is going to save you? again, I dont understand that. does it have magic powers to stop bullets or something?>> I think I notice your father's influence in that view. The cloth has no special qualities. Not even a Vatican flag has any special qualities, nor do religious relics. That isn't the reason for them. They represent the United States. There have been prisoners of war who made their own US flag and slauted it at night when the guards weren't looking. It kept morale up and prevented them from leaking information to the enemy. It is a symbol and a sign. Myabe that means nothing to you. Personally I feel saddenned that you don't have any affection for the Ontario or Canadian flag.

<<what the HECK is WRONG with your country??!!?! :P>> America is not to blame. That's just my mentality about someone like your father. I've thought about taking care of my sister and mother in that order to add a few hundred grand to my net worth, too. My father is nice to me, so I have no issue with him, but I want that land he has in Virginia, epecially with urban sprawl and how it affects land value.

<<or quite possibly an oligarchy. i dont think there are *any* "true" democracies anywhere at all.>> Thank God!! The US is more of a plutocracy where only a select few give enough of a shit to vote. I actually like Constitutional monarchies where monarchy is a tradition, like UK, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Austria, Scandinavia, Russia (well they are so f*cked up, a Czar may be good there even if he is more than a figurehead). Th eonly issue with the UK is that Blair has too much power and he is a legislator. It would be better if the English elected a Chancellor with a Prime Minister who was independent of Parliament.

I actually want the King of Afghanistan to be a figurehead King, since he is a good symbol of national unity and seems to care about his Afghans.

Jinxed> <<Just as a side note. The United States of America is not a Democracy it is a Republic. >> Very true. In fact, I don't even like the idea of electing rabble to High Office. Andrew Jackson supporte dthe idea of electing rabble though Calhoun and Van Buren were both American bluebloods and he invented the spoils sstem. Another good example of rabble being elected were Truman (super-corrupt administration), Johnson (either one), and Clinton. Some rabble have doen decently, like Lincoln, Reagan, and Nixon, and even Clinton as much as i hate giving him any credit, but at least Reagan, Nixon, and Lincoln proved their worth before being President,a nd even Clinton went through the ranks, even though I think his family is more in place in a trailer park as oppsoed to the places they have now.

<<When it comes down to it do you want we the people to make decisions in fear and mob rule or a few people who have cool heads and know the score to make the decisions.>> Tha's why we have legilative bodies and a Supreme Court to strike down mob decisions, plus we have a National Guard to keep mobs in place, like Kent State 1970.

<<Doesn't mean I wouldn't sign up to fight, but me and stratgey don't mix well. Tis why I suck at chess ;o)>> I'm in the Army and very little strategy is done at my level or in Finance.

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Warner Robins, Georgia
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 04:20:57 PM
IP: 68.1.132.21

RE: firestorm

kaioto>> <<The question posed is not why someone would point out that such an event happened, but why someone would commit such an act in the first place>> doesnt seem to match up with <<Someone, please, tell me what was wrong with what he did, because I just don't see it>> unless im again missing some sort of subtle wording here.. the question "what was wrong with what he did?" is not "why would someone do that?" anyways, as for a response to my interpretation of firestorms question.. it was wrong because it is wrong to derive pleasure from the torture of animals.. or people.. theres a big philosophical debate there.. but lets just say for now that the law says its wrong.
i cant believe you would post that in the manner in which you seem to be posting it, either.. and i cant help wondering if you just phrased it poorly.. guess well see in your response ;)

spacebabie>> well.. i think you *almost* got it right. though i would (in my most humble opinion) make the comment that i believe the phrase "got upset" as referring to my comments about american flags could be classified as a WILD exaggeration.. :P i think "mildly bemused" or perhaps even "slightly irritated" would be more correct. ;)
<<but America is my home and damn it I love it>> yeah. now, you see THAT kind of statement i can understand. <<reading about the governments of other countries and seeing them on the news I’d rather be here than there>> oh, indeed! i agree with you completely. however, since i live in *MY* country, and love my country, i have to say id rather be HERE than anywhere else ;) <<and technically that is what Canada is Vanilla and French Vanilla>> what about all the bilingual people? or are they just generally messed up? ;)

jinxed>> <<Just as a side note. The United States of America is not a Democracy it is a Republic>> or quite possibly an oligarchy. i dont think there are *any* "true" democracies anywhere at all. <<When it comes down to it do you want we the people to make decisions in fear and mob rule or a few people who have cool heads and know the score to make the decisions>> yay aristotle! he believed democracy was a flawed form of government because the people in charge (aka the many/poor) were out for their own interests - not out for the "greater good" of their own society... <> me neither, really.
lain
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 03:45:59 PM
IP: 65.92.92.19

Firestorm> I figured you were joking, along with Kaioto, when you mentioned Jackal. Though the humor was rather reeaaaaaaaaaalllllllyy dark.

spacebabie> not that it really matters, but I first attackded the grosse commercialization fo the flag, then I moved, in my next post, to abuses. <:D
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 03:45:06 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

YEOW! I didn't think I would almost start a flame war!

I found that absolutely sickening. I did NOT find it funny.
May they DEFINATELY get the maximum sentance.

That was not a flame bait, just to show an article I found on CNN that was sick, and even worse, true.

At least someone tried to save the poor little kitten.

As far as my Jackal reference, I was talking about the poster and his dead puppy video. *shudders*

Leo: <WHAT POSSESSED YOU!!>
The dark, dark twisted side that likes disruption and chaos.
<Don't you know how many of us in this CR are cat owners?>
Myself included. And a dog.
Fire Storm
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 03:30:12 PM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Somehow, I get the distinct impression (and I could just be psychic) that Firestorm didn't think it was funny either.

The question posed is not why someone would point out that such an event happened, but why someone would commit such an act in the first place.

It does sort of strike me as something that Jackal, the Pack member, would do in his spare time. Jackal is one fsck'd up sociopath.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 03:08:44 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Fire Storm> WHAT POSSESSED YOU!! THAT ISN'T FUNNY AT ALL!!That post was even more deranged than SOME of SJ's rants!
Don't you know how many of us in this CR are cat owners?

(I apologise in advance if this becomes a double post. I got bumped of AOL when I submitted the first time so I don't know if it sent)
Leo
Yorktown, VA
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 02:14:16 PM
IP: 172.170.66.225

Fire Storm: Are you flame-baiting to disrupt the current topics or something?

Real post after work.
Au revoir.
Stephanie D
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 02:13:17 PM
IP: 192.206.28.62

Okay lets get the gist down.

Lain Saw Spiderman and got upset because of scenes of the American flag
Sj,Crzy and others got on her case about it…Hey SJ and Jennifer “Crzy” A. agree on something!!!!
Lain along with Gaygoyle point out the flaws in our government.
Offended Lurker pours gasoline on the fire.

America is not perfect. No nation is in fact perfect, but America is my home and damn it I love it. Sure our system has flaws, but reading about the governments of other countries and seeing them on the news I’d rather be here than there.

I like Canada. I also like Vanilla ice cream, and technically that is what Canada is Vanilla and French Vanilla.

America is Baskin Robbins Baby!

Saw Power Puff movie yesterday.
S*P*O*L*E*R*S

I loved how the professor named. Mojo was a riot when his army didn’t go his way and Buttercup rescuing and re rescuing the dog was hilarious. The Ganggreen Gang appeard three times and Fuzzy Lumpkins also had a cameo

Spoilers end

Replies
Josh<<<Personally, I'd rather be inside faith than the other way around. >>>This is not surprising. Of course when you’re the ruler of the world you will have your failing helping of being part of a Slayer sandwich.

Wilek>>>I think that’s what I used to remove that last implant.

Gside<<<Don't got them in the area.>>>Thank you for another reason not to go to NJ<<<So have an english muffin. Or pancakes. >>>Don’t have them.<<>>Nekkid Aiden?<<<Are you so sure? >>>Are you implying Josh is gay.

Gaygoyle<<>>Naw he he is just trying to make a point.

Green Baron<<<Sorry about not coming by Spacebabie,>>> You owe me.

SJ<<<Cause I have an idea that my retorts to her would probably be better off sent in email than posted here. >>>Keeping things civilized by going the e-mail route? The boy has grown up.

Revel<<>>Tis amazing how things degenerate to this.<<<color orange, why does it always get used for a county name>>>I should field this one since I live in Orange County. There are a lot of Orange trees here, that’s why. In fact we have one growing on our front lawn. I guess that’s the same reason for California.

Firestorm<<<DERN LOT BOYS!>>>I missed them<<<My link is a news story about a nice little chef who was trying to cook,>>>Okay I know your trying to be funny but that is pretty sick. It would have been different if this wasn’t from CNN but more of a joke site. Well it’s still pretty sick. Anyone who tortures helpless lil animals for amusement deserves to rot in hell!

Christine<<<another couple of debates I'm not touching with a ten-foot pole.>>> Good idea, lets stomp the flames out of this flame war folks<<>>I know, but admit it you really like seeing him Nekkid.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 02:12:20 PM
IP: 67.25.49.222

Fire Storm> WHAT POSSESSED YOU!! THAT ISN'T FUNNY AT ALL!!That post was even more deranged than SOME of SJ's rants!
Leo
Yorktown, VA
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 02:04:58 PM
IP: 172.141.228.243

Fire Storm > That was just ef'ing sick. And your attempt at humor really, really inappropriate. Since you seem to have missed the point what those, and I use the word loosely, people were engaging in was ANIMAL ABUSE. Each and everyone of the participants should have his or her privates roasted over the same coals that they tormented that kitten with.

Sons of B*tches.
kathy
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:52:07 PM
IP: 66.32.113.200

Just as a side note. The United States of America is not a Democracy it is a Republic.
When it comes down to it do you want we the people to make decisions in fear and mob rule or a few people who have cool heads and know the score to make the decisions.
In general people want the big decisions to be made by someone else. That is a lot of responsibility to have on your shoulder.
To borrow a line from Spiderman "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
I don't know about you but I don't want to be the one to decide to go to war or how to fight that war. Doesn't mean I wouldn't sign up to fight, but me and stratgey don't mix well. Tis why I suck at chess ;o)
Jinxed - [dajinxed1@yahoo.com]
Red Deer, Alberta
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:52:50 AM
IP: 24.70.95.205

Ah, forget their contract!

DERN LOT BOYS!

My link is a news story about a nice little chef who was trying to cook, but just had the man come down hard on him.

Someone, please, tell me what was wrong with what he did, because I just don't see it.

...

I am reminded of Jackal for some reason.
Fire Storm - [<--- Thems good eatins!]
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:42:13 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

...
Anonymous
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:39:31 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Lain: Sucks about the house! I know how that feels, believe me! ;)
I say screw him! Take what you can and leave. Head to Gunjacks, or something
Fire Storm
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:37:47 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

The True American Way:

Grab what you can, even if that means stepping on someone else and bitch about waht you don't have and how someone or something is holding you back when it is in fact yourself. And in addition, if someone bumps into you SUE THEM!!!

I can't believe this arguement came because Lain saw spider-man.
Our next complaint should be on Kentucky moonshiners and the color orange, why does it always get used for a county name... ready, go!

"I found Jesus, he was stuck in traffic next to me on the 610 Loop."
-Outlaw Dave-
Revel - [Samrx5@cs.com]
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:24:17 AM
IP: 205.188.200.37

sj>> i tried to re-send and it gave me the same error message :( sorry, dude.

offended lurker>> wow. way to TOTALLY MISS the EVERY SINGLE POINT i made in my post there. go you!
seriously though.. calm down! if you keep up like that, youre going to hurt yourself or something.. good grief :P

green baron>> <<As for the flag waving...you wnat obnoxious use of flag...teh Wolrd Cup seesm to cause it>> yeah.. that too :P i dont really understand the relationship between sporting events and obnoxious flag waving. again with the quiet national pride.. <<I'd get in all sorts of military
trouble for creating an international incident>> awww! thats no fun! <> oh no no, you had them lots before, this isnt a recent thing. its just been getting suffocating lately, thats all. <<It shows we won't live in fear of some guy
with millions of dollars who wears a bunch of dirty towels and has sand fleas in his beard>> maybe, but could you tell me exactly how a piece of fabric with red and white stripes, a little blue and some stars is going to save you? again, i dont understand that. does it have magic powers to stop bullets or something? o.O <<After a while, the flag waving will die down, until we get attacked again>> oh GB.. if only that were true, i could just ride it out.. <<Poor dear ::hugs:: Maybe your dad will buy a place closer to civilization, then have Gunjack dispose of him>> yeaaaaah.. right after gunjack tries not to get charged with assault.. he wrote on a camper with a pen, apparently this counts as assault? oh yeah, eh? and once again i ask.. what the HECK is WRONG with your country??!!?! :P
lain
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 09:25:20 AM
IP: 65.92.92.19

Gabriel> <<And let's not even talk about capitalism and the industrial revolution where children and women and men were subject to 12+ hour wrokdays and insufficient wages.>>
And now the youths that were disposable labor are out committing juvenille ofenses and joining gangs. It makes me wonder if it was worth it, sometimes :p While working conditions in the Industrial Revolution are harsh to us today, they porved a real improvement to subsitsnece farming and past working conditions. Sure they were poor and in near-slavery conditions, but compared to what existed before....crippling rural poverty along with living in the country blech, or harsh urban poverty, where living conditions are a bit improed. Ask any medeival serf where they would want to live.

Thank God Socialism finally stepped in and put an end to those horrid practices and denied corporations their "freedom" to abuse workers.>>
I think wha it is referred to is "welfare" capitalism, back when welfare was aimed at Families with Dependent chidren, and not paying people to be lazy and worship Jesse Jackson. Even though Government had to rear its ugly head, it still favored the overall goals of free enterprising, just not pure capitalism. I reject purity, especially biblical funamentalist purity (which can be cured by a wooden stake, rope, gasoline, kindling wood, and a match), but I am also not a Randian in the same regards. Pope Leo XIII was criticla of both capitalism and socialism. Besides, the "socialism" was aimed at allowing the common grunt to be capitalists, too, and their kids can be escape the grunt system and one day become indutrialists. As it turned out, the rich got richer, but the poor also got richer. My ancestors were rich, but me as a solider making less than 20 grand taxable a year liver far vetter than my ancestors who were Barons, lawyers, pirates, merchants...

And of course, what really benefits the poor is what they do for themselves. Bes solution for poverty is exercising self-cntrol, not having a kid at 15, and doing whatever it takes to get out. Rachael comes from a poor background, though it is a good age when being poor can include going to Community College, having a car, and a roof over your head. She joined the Army. The US military can be one of the best social porgarms we have for our poor.

You cna join with jack shit...though you need a high school diploma or a GED these days, and go to College at 25% tuition, or even a few like Falwell's Univeristy for free (he's an intolernat jackass, but freeschool is free school) and when your out, there is a GI Bill to help you go through College or if you get your College in the Army, you can use it for Grad school. As for fighting and all, well that's a risk you take, but if you enter a combat zone, like Bosnia, Afghanistan, or Detroit, you don't oay taxes for the months you're there. Plus, most of the Army jobs teach you valuable skills. And the Air Force is even better. You cna also get an Associates Degree there and they have the Air Force Junior College. Jannie's son is doing the right thing. He can put up with a litle bullshit in Basic, but then he has food and housing covered and Air Force is called Chair Force for a good reaosn, so its superior to what I get, and he'll probably come out of the Air Force with at least an Associate's Degree.

Maybe our military has a touch of socialism in it, but its a war machine and a poverty relief progarm rolled into one :)

Lain> <<. i think you could be better, sometimes, just as i think MY country and any country could be better.>> I thought Hong Kong was great. Too bad it wnet back to Chinese rule. I think Singapore is great too, but lacks some freedoms, though when we regard the right to blast loud rap out car windows and grafitti to be civil liberities, I begin to consider a little fascism.

As for the flag waving...you wnat obnoxious use of flag...teh Wolrd Cup seesm to cause it. Try being in Germnay when Brazil beta them. The Germans were still honking their horns and all sorts of flags were out in plain view to just be annoying. Whne Germany beat the US, they were beings o obnoxious about it, I was gald brazil beat them. It would be better if Argentina beat Germany, since they were a haven for Germans after WWII. If it wasn't for a huge fine, I woudl have given the German passerbys a right-handed salute and yelled zikhail in a manner that would make SJ proud :) Toobad, I'd get in all sorts of military trouble for creating an international incident.

At leats Americans don't do that, though we make way too big a deal about our own sports. I think a big reason the average American has a flag is because we were attacked by someone who wants us all dead. It shows we won't live in fear of some guy with millions of dollars who wears a bunch of dirty towels and has sand fleas in his beard.

After a while, the flag waving will die down, until we get attacked again. In a smae vein, many American muslims responded to a very brief period of harrasment be displaying theri fiath proudly to show they won't fear those who would infringe on their rights to be Americans. I iwsh the Jews in Europe who have faced attacks on tehir synagouges would do the same and proudly dispaly their faith and take on whoever dares to alienate their basic right to be Jews. That is appropriate use of a little display, to show we aren't afraid.

French involvement> I feel bad about that. Franc elent us aid and our Revolution inspired theirs, only the French Revolution as bloodier and more destructive, plus the end result is more revolting than Paris in the sumer at noon. I regard Bastille Day as a day of mourning and I thank the Kingdom of France for its efforts, but the French Republic I have no love for.

Jinxed> I was told Baron von Steuben was a Prussian, and besides, the Hessians were mercenaries so they were easy to deal with (he who fights and runs away lives to fight another day). I am stationed in the same city as the castle were the Count of Hessel lent its mercenaries to Britain, bcause he was related to the Hanoverian dynasty.

Kaioto> <<Italy's continual economic love-affair with investments by criminal organizations>> Hey, they need the money :) Too bad those mafia types don't have cool wiseguys like Joe Pesci though.

Yooper> <<Not to say that the U.S. is innocent; Ruby Ridge, Waco, Jim Crow, Japanese internment, slavery, and Yuri Nosenko.>> Let's not forget No Irish Need Apply, Puritans, the Second Great Awakening, Jehova's Witnesses, the Sexual Revolution, punishing Catholic kids for saying a differnet version of the Lord's Prayer, and firvilous lawsuits to our list of shame.

Stephanie D> I admit I missed you as well, and in your honor I won't burn any more UN flags ;) (I never burned a UN flag though)

A pink robed priest was a reference to one who had a fondness for little boys. Maybe we should send these priests to England where humping little Catholic boys is a national hobby :)

<<If Canadians ever speak against the US, this is one of the main reasons why; you are so patriotic at times that you do not let any other nationality be patriotic.>> That is foolish. Canadians are consumers of many American goods and it is bad business policy. As soon as patriotism interferes with commerce, it's time to lay off and sell a few of our flags...at a profit of course :D

gabriel> <<As for taxes. I think they suck, but I also detest private property and see collective ownership as a means to true freedom. >:)>> Freedom means nothing to me if I can't have private property. Besides, Collective ownership doesn't do away with privat eproperty, it just affects individual property. That group entity still has private property. And I assume you refer to a collective that people voluntarily join anyway.

<<"life, liberty, adn the pursuit of hapinnes.>> I never liked that..but it beats Equality, Liberty, and Brotherhood (and not bathing).

Lain (again)> Poor dear ::hugs:: Maybe your dad will buy a place closer to civilization, then have Gunjack dispose of him :)

Niamhgold> <<Sure, they'll be informed...but morbid.>> That's a bad thing?

Canadian military> Excellent elite forces. Good allies. As for burning down the White House, can they set DC ablaze again?

Kaioto> Why should Canada spend as much on its military? They don't have the same demand so why make the supply? Being neighbors to the US does provide a lot of security, because any attacks on Canada are also a threat to the US, so if Greenland invaded Canada, the US would also send in its forces. So why should they have that big a military?

Taleweaver> <<Not everything America has done has been to further the cause of democracy and freedom.>> Good. Democracy is a crock anyway. The US needs to stop imposing it on other nations and Europe needs to revive its nobility.

<<But I think they to honor that privilage is to speak out, not give the government a bye because we are at 'war' or the times have changed. Maybe it is shouting at the wind to say a government as powerful and as educated should do more to hold to the ideals is professess to so loudly. If the government isn't interested in freedom and democracy for otehrs, then it shouldn't use that as its sound bite because it makes good copy. We know better and it is long past time we should act like it.>> The pass the Government may have gotten was short lived. Besides, compared to FDR's dictatorship this is nothing.

<<Socialism is a political system that says that people should expect a minimum of services.>> There is a point between mixed capitalism and modified socialism.

The US still ultimately sides with capitalism, but not laissez-faire.

Gabriel> <<People have been educated, but we still ahev corporate scandals where the workers are left in the dust while the CEOs get money. THree got caught, but how many are getting away with it right now?>> coughcoughJesseJacksoncoughcough

Offended Lurker> 1812 was a draw. We tried to get Canada and Flordia and I can't blame them for that. Imperialsim is lots of fun until you have to pay the bills.

Canada beta us up north, but Andrew jackson defended us from the limeys down south even if the war had ended. Of course he was a terrible President and incredibly corrupt. Well, he was the First Democrat :D
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Warner Robins, Georgia
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 06:27:21 AM
IP: 68.1.132.21

"Those Dumb Americans"> Well, isn't this rich? I find it quite ironic that a country that's supposed to be filled with ignorant morons is the number one military and economic power in the world. Somehow just because Americans don’t know every little detail about Canada we are complete idiots. “Those stupid, stupid Americans! They’re so dumb that they don’t know every little city in every province!” Who really gives a flying rat’s rear end? As if we didn’t have the rest of the world to learn about! You know what? I apologize. I apologize for my stupidity and not being a scholar on everything Canadian. I was too busy being a complete moron and learning about my own idiot country’s history and about the history of the former European powers! I am so sorry!
War of 1812> "The War of 1812, sometimes called "the Second War of Independence," was fought between the United States and Great Britain from 1812 to 1815. Relations between the two countries had often been strained after the United States won its independence in 1783, but the greatest problems developed during the war between England and France that broke out in 1793. To prevent American neutral shipping from helping the French, the British instituted extensive maritime blockades of European ports. The resulting seizures of American merchant shipping quickly brought demands for retaliation in the United States." You see! It was a war between the US and GREAT BRITAIN, not between US and CANADA. Yes there were attempts by the US to invade Canada, but it was a tactical move against the British. Besides, Canada wasn't even its own country then. It was part of the British empire, and thus, the "Canadians" were British. To find out more info on the War of 1812, click on my name.

offended lurker
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 02:32:28 AM
IP: 216.160.98.115

Wilek - here's my price for access to my supplier of DNA scanning missiles: you keep DC from bothering me by any means necessary, except harming me or my friends. Do we have a deal?
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 01:41:41 AM
IP: 204.94.193.76

Email's fixed.

Sorry about that. Been a popular guy lately.
Sevarius Jr. - [sevariusjr@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 01:04:15 AM
IP: 207.172.11.147

Wilek> Well, I was being sarcastic about that, but...... People have been educated, but we still ahev corporate scandals where the workers are left in the dust while the CEOs get money. THree got caught, but how many are getting away with it right now?

Plus, the only form of socialism that has ever been "attempted" is scientific-socialism, i.e. Marxism. The media, and other right-wing sources, often fail to mention the other schools of Socialist thoought that exist, like the ones that opposed Marxism form it's very inception, even before classical liberals ever heard of the notion of Marxism since Marxism stripped people of being free(that would be the school started by Proudhon and continued by Kropotkin, Godwin, Goodwin, and Bakunin, and, to name the Christians, Ellul and Eller, both of whom are recent with works still available). There are, to my mind, three differant forms of socialism. But only one, Marxism, was ever tried for it's totalitarianism, and it is paraded around as the ONLY form of socialism.

ANd if you would like to continue this else where adn tell me how full of crap I am, just send me an e-mail :)
Or you can IM at yahoo: marduk80.

I'll be mute on the subject from here on out until it's brought back up again :) By the way, Orwell was a democratic socialist ;)
Gabriel "gaygoyle" - [marduk80@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:42:19 AM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Hey, all ... looks like my problems with my .tif files on my site are no more. :)

Clicking on my name takes ya to the preview of the first ish of my minicomic. I've started work on #2 for October. The pages are viewable with Quicktime. :)
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:15:45 AM
IP: 216.234.124.222

Woe is me, no one has heplied to me. And it doesn't look like I'll be getting in many replies myself.
As I said last time, it's not a perfect place, but it's pretty good.

Raine> <<walks up to Wilek with her sanity in a pretty blue package>>: A true welcome then. And how appropriate to give a blue package to the blue guy. He'll probably still want to use the Sucker to get any remnants.

Imzadi> <<There are three other models currently made>>: How many PC/Unix models are being currently made? I can't count that high.

Niamhgold> <<Would this be before or after you two...nevermind>>: After of course. When else is he euphoric enough?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:56:44 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Reign Of Fire> I've seen the TV spots. No wonder Traveler hasn't had time to post here; making movies is time-consuming work. ;)

HIV Muppet> Why stop there? Elmo would make a fabulous serial killer (name link), and I'm pretty sure Oscar has a lot of bodies stashed in that trashcan. And hey, why not have an exchange student from Silent Hill? Big Bird and Pyramid Head would make marvelous dancing partners.

I want to watch Meet The Feebles in the worst way.

Wilek
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:42:30 PM
IP: 128.241.245.34

Ooh, goodie, another couple of debates I'm not touching with a ten-foot pole. I've got all the stress I can handle already, thanks.

Naked pictures of Jericho > now, let's clear this up ... I welcome and enjoy pics of him and the other characters, clothed or not. It's always a flattering honor when someone with artistic ability will put pen to paper to render some character I devised. Clothed or not. ; )

Finished and sent off my new zombie story. "Seven Brains, Ten Minutes." Here's hoping! The Book of More Flesh is due out in time for Halloween.

Heard back from my mother after the big letter. She says she's not mad and she understands our feelings, but aside from that, nothing much is going to change. She doesn't want to 'destroy' my uncle by moving out and having a life of her own. ::sigh::

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:40:45 PM
IP: 65.239.62.196

*School Bell Rings*

Ok, I thought I'd jump in with my two cents for the sake of accuracy.

Wilek> I believe you're mixing fascism and communism in with scoialism. Communism is an economic system. It says that the state runs the business. Fascism is a political system. It says we control to varying degrees what you say and do. Those two are not one in the same. This also applies to socialism. Socialism is a political system that says that people should expect a minimum of services.

Public schools, libraries, even Public Television, and those ingredient labels on products we buy can be considered socialist programs. They serve the public's interest over private interest.

I do agree that abuses of power under capitalism have made the system rather sucky, but I don't see education as the answer. Some of the biggest crooks in our nations history have also been learned men, folks with letters after their name, folks who have founded or endowed many a fine institution of higher learning. Education doesn't guarentee someone is going to be a nice person. In the system of business, it is the A-holes who become CEOs not the humanitarians. The sad part about it, the part that makes me a misanthrope is that is the way people want it. People in general are more concerned with the convenience and ease their wants and needs are satisfied than with how they are provided. Most people don't care where a Big Mac comes from, just that they can get it when ever they have a rumble.

Don't stop me now, I'm on a roll.

Kiato> Down the grunt work in exchange for power and dominance isn't a bad set up, but I don't agree that all these decisions were hard to make. They were made to serve particular interests. My personal bugaboo is we don't call a spade a spade. Not everything America has done has been to further the cause of democracy and freedom. I remember Tiennamen Square and I also remember our response. A response much weaker to the one a few years later when we were on the verge of a trade war with China. I recall the Gulf War when we called for the Iraqi people to rise up against Hussein and then left them high and dry with no support once the polls were favorable for peace settlement.

I am aware what an enormous privilage it is to speak out against a government and not fear disappearing in the middle of the night, or taking away never to be heard from again or worse 'reeducated' stay in line. But I think they to honor that privilage is to speak out, not give the government a bye because we are at 'war' or the times have changed. Maybe it is shouting at the wind to say a government as powerful and as educated should do more to hold to the ideals is professess to so loudly. If the government isn't interested in freedom and democracy for otehrs, then it shouldn't use that as its sound bite because it makes good copy. We know better and it is long past time we should act like it.

As far as the US taking the bullets aimed at other countries. I disagree with that. To my knowledge we haven't had a suicide bomber in the states. I think it's the reverse. The US has a lot of buffers to the harsh socio-econimic-politcal climes beyond its borders. We don't hear about it because the US press is concerned with US issues, that's what they believe people tune into. Only a slim selection of international stories filters into the general public.

Well, I've vented enough. My apologies to any I may have offended. My intention was to inspire thought and ponderings. I hope it makes you think.

TTFN
Taleweaver - [loremaster27@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:35:59 PM
IP: 24.205.117.183

Wilek>> Hard to start a flame war that's already under way.

Hey people lets not go too far overboard on this. Being offended is fine. Expressing that offense is fine. Dragging it out is a tedious and unfeindly process that has been a proven cause to drive people away. It also has a tendency of attracting the administrative powers that be. Now, I really don't think any of that will happen as it currently stands, but we have seen it turn really nasty before and I just don't want to see it to go that way again.

*lets out a deep sigh* Okay just felt like I had to say that.

On another topic...

Riegn of Fire>> Maybe you just have to be a dragon fan. I've seen and heard a lot of bad reviews for this one. Okay, it has more than its fair share of plot holes and unexplained mumbo-jumbo. SO???? The dragons are downright freakin' COOL! The acting I thought was pretty decent, and the action was intense. I rode the edge of my seat the whole way. It doesn't have to win any awards in my book. I'm buying the DVD as soon as it comes out and hope that it inspires more dragon movies. The critics have to admit one thing... it was better than Dragonheart or its pathetic excuse for a sequal. Anywho, I highly recomend RoF to any dragon or fantasy fan. Which I dare say is a good portion of this room.

Sesame Street>> I wasn't going to comment on this, but... *shrugs* I find myself strangely indiferent on this one. I stopped caring about this show when people had to make a fuss about Bert and Ernie. Bloody roomates that sleep in seperate beds and a kid show to boot and people are afraid it will turn their kids gay. Pisses me off to no end how they handled that little issue. In a year or two I'm sure they'll bring in a mupet that IS gay. Maybe if the american show brings in one with AIDs then it will be gay. Maybe Elmo will become a Manic-Depresive. Or Cookie Monster develops an eating disorder, or a high-school aged female mupet will get pregnant. I don't really care what they do. When we have a kid my wife and I plan on watching all the kids shows with them (or even beforehand) to see what's safe. I can see Jim Hensen rolling in his grave over what they've done with his life's work. Muppets just haven't been the same since he died.

Okay that's enough from me.
later, and thanks to everybody who read my story. This has been the greatest response I've ever had.
Mecord
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:30:02 PM
IP: 12.255.11.48

kaioto>> i wouldnt say were better, no.. its just that were.. "less worse" ;)
lain
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:29:35 PM
IP: 65.92.92.19

Yes, Lain, the world is aware of Canadian troops that have been used in fighting wars. You were there for the D-day campaign for Pete's sake.

Your standing army and nuclear arsenal (or lack thereof) still regulates you to the status of "folks who use America as a meat-shield." In terms of who provides the backbone, spends the most money, and takes the most casualties , we're your happy little Meat Shield.

Oh, and the war of 1812. Wonderful stories of a bunch of Morons trying to run up to Canada for more land and failing due to bad weather and internal betrayal, but that wasn't the real war.

All those Canadian Marines that burned down the White House and sunk all those American ships ... wait ... that was the British fighting the real war.

All this Canadian Elitism is really rather contemptable flag-waving on your part I'm afraid. And overly judgmental attitudes towards another country ... that simply won't do in progressive, enlightened Canada. Don't you know you're supposed to be Better than America? ;-)

5 Minute major for hypocrisy. ^_^
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:19:05 PM
IP: 66.31.222.137

offended lurkster>> <<Check your history books. Here's an example. During the War of 1812 ... Americans had to fight the British "alone". THAT is not an outright lie>> perhaps not.. but it certainly *IS* a blatant misrepresentation of the truth, if you like that wording better.. cos you know who the french were too busy fighting to come to your aid? good old mommy britain. thats right. if youd read YOUR history books, youd know that in 1812, there were about 300 british regulars in canada - and about 400 canadian militia. of course, you could just argue that the "canadian" militia at that time were just limeys in disguise.. however those 600 or so first nations? 100% born and raised canadian, my friend. our nation had about 500,000 people to your 7 million, and we had somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1,600 troops (some american deserters, etc) to defend our 2,000 km border.. which we did.. rather well and thanks largely, to the part where you guys being were bunch of suckers, i might add. the point being.. you did not have to "fight the british alone" no no. you had to fight the canadians alone. perish the thought you should actually have to admit that. i guess youre suckered to this day by brocks trick of dressing his militia in discarded british uniforms. :P

steph>> <<Fawzi Bhear>> LOL <<Some of the things said to lain upset me>> get used to it.. <<kudos to those who are dealing with the topic decently>> amen. <<you are so patriotic at times that you do not let any other nationality be patriotic>> i still prefer introverted national pride..

yooper>> <> ah. << The judge, prosecuter, and jury in that trial are under the protection of U.S. marshals to this day>> interesting. i had not thought of that angle. <<The
right to free speech, religion, and assembly, the right to bear arms, the right to a jury trial, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, etc. belong to you because you are a human being>> aaah this argument. gunjack gave me this one awhile ago.. and i wasnt able to come up with a counter so we suspended the argument for a bit. i think i found an argument in politics class the other day. gunjacks basic argument for defining what is a "human right" is by defining what they would have if they were out by their lonesome without any other people around. so, the right to free speech, religion, and assembly, the right to bear arms, the right to a jury trial, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, and all that are supposedly things which the human animal would have in its natural state, correct? (i dont know if this is quite what youre saying.. but it was gunjacks argument and yours seems similar so..) however.. if the argument is that humans have this in their natural state.. it doenst quite hold water for me.. because in order to be free, one must have something FROM which to be free. does that make sense? and, in this supposed "natural state" the concept of freedom would be useless becuase there are no others to oppress you. you would just BE free, if only by virtue of the fact that there is nothing from which to be free, not have a RIGHT to be free.. do you see the difference? same for religion. you could BE religious.. then again, you could not. it only becomes an issue when there are other humans with which to interact. as for the right to bear arms.. well.. a human on their own would pick up a stick, or a rock.. or maybe even tie a rock TO a stick.. but i cannot imagine a "free range" human (as it were) creating a forge and inventing and practicing the art of gunsmith..ery? (is that the word?) it was something invented with other humans in mind (either for offense, or defence)
so, on this basis.. one could not say that rights are "natural" but rather it is obvious rights are granted or not granted (and indeed only exist) when the governing structure of a society of humans decrees it is so. thats my philosophical counter to the "natural state" argument.. which (like i said) im not even sure you were stating.. anyways.. :P <<This is a comment room for a fanfic based on a cartoon>> HA! in which universe do YOU live?? ;) <<To Americans, that almost seems like embarassment. Cultural difference, I guess>> yeah, i suppose so. i am not embarassed by my country.. the best explanation ive ever heard on this is an arrogant worms song called "forgive us, were canadian" its a short one, so ill post the lyrics to you.. "we always say were sorry, we LIKE to stand in line/ when you ask us how were doing, we always say "JUST FINE"/ forgive us were canadian, we try hard to be nice/ you too can be canadian if you follow this advice:/ we disagree on everything - but we try to be polite/ we dont believe in violence.. except on HOCKEY NIGHT!/ weve adopted european ways, replacing yards with metres/ but we still must ask the question.. how many miles.. in a litre?/ forgive us were canadian, we try hard to be nice/ you too can be canadian, if you follow this advice:/ we can talk for hours on end, about the constitution/ which is dry as toast, but sure as heck beats war or revolution/ we dont much like to wave the flag - we find patriotism shocking/ so we celebrate on canada day by going cross-border shopping../ forgive us were canadian, we try hard to be nice/ you too can be canadian, if you follow this advice:/ we know how to dress for winter, were not afraid of snow/ and we love our country quietly.. and hope quebec wont go../ forgive us were canadian, and some might think us bland/ but theres nowhere that wed rather live than this vast and frozen land.."
the arrogant worms have lots of very funny songs about the relationship between canadians and americans. i have another humorous book, which contains a section entitled "the reason canadians hate americans so much - and its a good one!" it goes on to say, "we have already covered weather (ie "winter") but thats not enought. to truly master the art of canadian conversation, you woll need to learn how to complain. about americans, mostly.
man oh man, do canadians love to complain about americans. indeed, a recent government survey states that the fourth-most popular passtime in canada is - and i quote -
"complaining about those damn americans." (this ranks just below "complaining about the weather" (#1) "complaining about the government - and why it isnt doing anything about the weather" (#2) and "just generally complaining" (#3).)
why do we canadians hate americans so much? is it because the united states sent in their troops and toppled our government? is it because the CIA assassinated our head of state? we should be so lucky. no, its far worse than that. the ongoing, long simmering, deep-running rage that most canadians direct against americans is based upon the shocking fact that americans - *brace yourself!* - dont know very much about canada. its horrible. but true.
for example, canadian exports of halibut last year exceeded the standard set by the bilateral us/canadian halibut accord by a full 23% - but do the americans know about this?? noooo. in fact, based on an informal sampling of responses, very few americans are even AWARE of the bilateral comission on halibut quotas. the fact that we made it up just now is no excuse. its simply another shocking example of the appalling ignorance that the americans have when it comes to canada. and boy, are we mad! why, were as mad as a porcupine thats been put in a sack and poked with a stick. if those darn americans dont smarten up, well make another beer commercial. we aint foolin. we will. so they better watch it!"

now.. this is starting to be a long post.. but im just trying to point out some cultural differences i see between canadians and americans. for one thing, if i took my country as seriously as you seem to take yours, i think id have died of an ulcer by now.. yeesh. i like poking fun at stuff. i like poking fun at canadian stuff - this hour has 22 minutes is the best show on earth. but the fact is, if i poked fun at canadian stuff, it would go right over all of your heads. so, instead, i poke fun at american stuff. usually, it is a light-hearted attempt at humour - but then someone (in this case sj) comes along and tries to make me all bad - when all im doing is what canadians do best. i dont take most of what i say seriously in this CR.. or at all. i suppose its difficult for you to tell that, as you can't hear my voice or see my face when i type words.. but if there is a ";)" or a ":P" near what i write.. its not meant to be offensive.. its meant to be a light-hearted social comment about your country my country.. or myself as a person and poster in this comment room.

as for kaiotos post.. perhaps you should come take a tour of some of our cenetaphs and check out the number of canadian names carved thereupon of members of our country who have given their lives supporting what are generally called "american" wars - BEFORE you start implying we use you as a "meat-shield" and.. for a century, at that. i suppose we can put that down to you being a darned american who knows nothing about canada, though ;)

and wilek.. i dont think you could start a flame war with that. it has way too much.. style, you know? ;)

and i think ive taken up FAR too much of the comment room today :P but i sincerely hope it was worth it to try to explain what i mean and where i am coming from when i debate in here. you might think that canadians are just that "other state up north there" but, culturally, im sure you have noticed it just isnt so. it almost seems as though we *think* differently. i come in here and address issues of your country from MY way of thinking - which is the only way of thinking i have. i hope this is understandable, and i will make a concerted effort to see things as you would see them (even if that is difficult coming from my different background)- and i hope you would do the same vice-versa.
i hope in this way, we will be able to debate without so much animosity in the future.

:)

yours,
lain
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 10:59:33 PM
IP: 65.92.92.19

** Niamhgold enters **

I'm going to be, most likely, posting as infrequently as ever in the next few weeks. Yes, I made it to California alive, contrary to popular belief ;) I mailed out prints of my Gathering stuff to those of you who requested them; for anyone else, I still have a bunch of leftovers, so give me an e-mail if you're interested (yes shameless plug! ;)).

I do not like machines networked beyond my authority. Because the authorities apparently don't think it's worthwhile to have acrobat reader, and to them I say, pffffft ;)

Jaden: <Ok I don't know what just happened, but all of a sudden the thing posts without me even touching the computer so forgive the third post> It's the attack of the mutant computer gremlins!...again!...

Imzadi: <Okay, I'm going to sleep. I expect tomorrow to be my last post for a while> Awww, and why's that? ;) <I'm sure there is a point during the night where you could wake me up and say "Gside is the sexiest man on earth" and I'd say "uh huh" and pass out> Would this be before or after you two...nevermind. I wish that were reason enough to MAKE my parents move. <Every year I go through the same BS: send in the waiver form, get rejected because my policy doesn't cover the same number of mental in-patient days, then have to send in a signed form that says I'll pay for it.> Silly. I don't think MICA wants to cover me anymore, anyways ;)

Jen: I don't know. I don't think kids should need to know about terminal diseases when they're five and just learning how to string sentences together. Sure, they'll be informed...but morbid.

Oh, jeez, time's up. I need more DSL!
Like a monkey!

Cheers all.
Niamhgold - [fluff_astrid@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 10:48:33 PM
IP: 66.87.90.139

<<Thank God Socialism finally stepped in>>
Sure. Look at Russia and China's marvelous human rights records. Hey, wasn't it early Bolshevik revolutionaries who ended the US' whole slavery problem in the 1800s?

If the word 'hate' were spelled out by the quantum orbital clouds of every electron of every atom of every molecule of every cell in the walls of every one of the thousands of miles of blood vessels in all the bodies of my infinite number of alternate timeline selves, it would not equal one tenth of one one hundredth of one percent of my hatred for socialism. Under a socialist system, my entire collection of books, of video games, of music, of movies, of toys, along with my home itself, could be seized and auctioned off to pay to build a squalid flophouse for a colony of insane winos who I don't know from Adam, simply because some power-mad psychopath in an iron tower has decided that I am a bourgois (sp? don't care) pig whose very personal and very harmless quest for knowledge makes me a threat to the proletariat. Twenty years of planning, twenty years of work, twenty years of putting together a vast puzzle whose final design I have only begun to understand, twenty years of dancing the spiral--there it all goes, right up Fate's sphincter ani.

It's perfectly alright for others to criticize our government. I know I have a few choice words for it (I'm looking at you mafiosi in the IRS just now). But know this--some of the very factors you criticize give rise to your ability to criticize them without fear of arrest.

I won't argue that Industrial Revolution-era workers didn't suffer under horrible conditions; that would be outright delusion. But they weren't caused by capitalism, they were caused by the *abuse* of capitalism. A genuine flaw of capitalism is that, like anything with great power, it is easily abused. Proper education regarding fair treatment of one's fellow man would rectify this. How unfortunate that all that kids learn in government schools nowadays is that if you're intelligent, you deserve to be beaten so senseless as to actually want to fit in.

None of this was meant as a flame against anyone (and I hope unto whatever gods are left that I didn't just start a flame war)...I just felt like ranting about the government poking its arse into people's business.

=Winston meditated resentfully on the physical texture of life. Had it always been like this? Always a sort of protest, a feeling that you had been cheated of something that you had a right to.=
~George Orwell, 1984
Wilek
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 09:39:21 PM
IP: 128.241.245.34

i was going to post responses.. but just as i was beginning to type them, my father phoned, told me i had to resign from TGS (my ARSE i will..) to focus on my schoolwork - oh, and hes selling my house. you know, the house i was born and raised in, the house in which my mother died, the house in which all my memories lie.. yeah. so im not much in the mood for retorts now. ive a good one for the offended lurker, but it will have to wait till im in a better mood :P
sadlain
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 06:37:19 PM
IP: 65.92.92.19

offended lurker>> <<THAT is not an outright lie.>>
Well uhh, I kinda figured that! We even got our asses royally kind on land, so much so that the capital was burned.

<>

I tend to defend the civil ideals this country was founded; for each individual to live according to their own moral consciounse so long as no one else's liberty is threatened by their actions "life, liberty, adn the pursuit of hapinnes." You won't see me supporting France, or China, or Cuba. as they strip aways peoples right to have a religion.

I guess I am one of those Americans who scream and yell when the ideals are being threatened by the very people who claim to uphold them.

<<We already have enough foreigners constantly pointing out all the flaws of this country that we don't need any from home. >>

Uhh, then what? NO ONE should critisize their government; let the gov't do whatever the hell it wants to a citizen; just look the other way when American Citizens are denied their due process entitled and promised to them under the constituion. How do you think this country was founded? On recognizing the abuses and flaws of the gov't, bitching about it, then trying to do something about it; on dissent. Unlike the founding fof the US, I prefer non-violent mehtods to achieve this.

Yooper> <<Gun controle>. Another excellent example of a government overstepping it's authority on citizens' rights.
As for taxes. I think they suck, but I also detest private property and see collective ownership as a means to true freedom. >:)

Kaioto> I's gots a few minutes. If I see something that irks me, I'll get to ya later ;). While the US may have freed some countries, others were also thrown into turmoil. My opinon: stay the hell out of other country's bussiness if they're functiong alright like Guatamala was. When there's a threat like Hitler, do something. When people are living among themselves and make "allies" with "enemies," stay the hell outta there bussiness.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 05:56:14 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Gabriel"gagoyle"> <That is an outright lie. America would be nothing had it not been for France.> Whoops! Let me revise that statement. "This country AFTER THE REVOLUTION had to rely on itself to survive." Is that better? Yes, it did basically have to rely on itself for survival after the revolution. Check your history books. Here's an example. During the War of 1812, where were the French? They were caught up in a little war of their own. Americans had to fight the British "alone". THAT is not an outright lie. I pity you. I guess you're one of those Americans who are so caught up in the fact that this country isn't perfect, you can't at least find pride in the ideals it was founded on. We already have enough foreigners constantly pointing out all the flaws of this country that we don't need any from home.
offender lurker
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 05:19:14 PM
IP: 63.224.57.83

Name found while filing: Fawzi Bhear

DPH: “current arsenol of weapons isn't sufficient to discourage DC” I find that a more ‘hands on’ approach is so much more satisfying than just pushing a button.

Wilek: “party favour” Now that is something that I would like to use on Mr. DC. I think I would start with… *cackles manically*

Green Baron: I have missed you.
“the teacher told my mother I shouldn't know that much Geography before 1st grade” *sympathetic chuckle* I had that problem but with math and science.
“a pink robed priest” A what?

Sesame Street: I think the introduction of an HIV positive character in Africa is great. Children start learning what is 'normal' at a few months of age – at the same time that they start babbling. Then they see what kind of life is 'normal' on T.V. Even though AIDS and death are horrible things to be 'normal'; they are in Africa. The sooner that kids learn that sickness is not something to ostracize, tease, or bully another kid over, the better.

American Flag Waving: Some of the things said to lain upset me; kudos to those who are dealing with the topic decently.
As a Canadian, I too sometimes get sick of ‘our great, powerful neigbours to the south’.
My favorite radio station is Montréal based. It used to play all the big-name Canadian bands like The Tea Party, Moxy Früvous, The Tragically Hip, Great Big Sea, etc. and also good Montréal rock bands like Pigeon Hole. ‘Montréal’s Best Music’ was so successful with this format that it was bought up by a big chain: an American chain. Now it only plays American bands. I can no longer hear my English Canadian Rock in my Canadian city. If Canadians ever speak against the US, this is one of the main reasons why; you are so patriotic at times that you do not let any other nationality be patriotic.

A much more relaxing and funny topic: I am going to go home and take TheSpark tests. I will try to post my results tonight from my Dad’s computer.

Au revoir
Stephanie D - [SCurtin@icao.int]
Montréal, Québec, Canada
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 05:07:53 PM
IP: 192.206.28.62

A few comments:

Luminous Aphrodite and Stephanie D>>The French helped the Americans win the revolution with support of money and arms. They blocked Cornwall's retreat from Yorktown by sea, forcing him to surrender. However, the French Revolution did not occur until 1789, the year the Constitution was signed. The reason the French helped was not one of philosophy, but of politics. The French and the British were mortal enemies at the time, and France had a vested interest in keeping Britain's army tied up in America.

Lain>><< theyre supposed to be "secret" so.. how would you know?>>I don't think that the fact that a tribunal has been convened is secret, it's just that the proceedings are closed. And for the record, I don't think that tribunals are a good thing, just better than the alternatives. The reason that the alternative is worse is this: the first bombing of the WTC occured in 1993, and the trial in--I might be a few years off--1995. The judge, prosecuter, and jury in that trial are under the protection of U.S. marshals to this day. You want to try this with 300 people? This is actually a case where a tribunal may be more fair, since it will be far more difficult for Al Qaeda to yank the jury around with death threats. The problem, of course, is that it is more likely than a standard jury trial to result in a conviction of an innocent person. This may be a case where we have to accept that, due to the massive threat posed by these people. That, however, is a point open to debate.

<<and its alright for us to violate the second ammendment.. because we dont *have* the second ammendment>> Philosophically, I believe that the Constitution doesn't grant rights. It just states that they exist to make sure that everyone is on the same page. The right to free speech, religion, and assembly, the right to bear arms, the right to a jury trial, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, etc. belong to you because you are a human being. Now, the government has to balance these rights with public safety. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater, to use a famous example, and it's just not a good idea to allow felons and maniacs to own guns. Also, continuing from my previous paragraph, allowances have to be made for large threats to public safety. When you combine this with the fact that I believe that widespread ownership of firearms by responsible people will actually help decrease crime, it appears to me that many governments are committing a massive human rights violation by banning guns. Not to say that the U.S. is innocent; Ruby Ridge, Waco, Jim Crow, Japanese internment, slavery, and Yuri Nosenko. I guess what really rankles me is the perception of a double standard.

<<doesn't quite fit the definition of "totalitarianism.">>No, Hugo Chavez's government doesn't quite fit the definition of "totalitarianism." The U.S. government is about 3 AU's distant. Not to say it can't happen here, people like me scream that it can all the time, but we aren't very that close to it.

<<the door wiiiide open for that development.>>Rest assured, we are watching for that. We do, however, have to deal with the people trying to kill us, too.

<>This is a comment room for a fanfic based on a cartoon. I can only speak for myself, but there are a lot of other forums that I'll choose for a political debate first.

<<"unspoken pride">>To Americans, that almost seems like embarassment. Cultural difference, I guess.

Gabriel>><<The government (and not just democrats) enjoys declaring war and abusing it's powers>>It enjoys abusing its powers whether or not there's a war on. High taxation, taking land for environmental purposes without compensating the owner, and gun control are only a few examples. However, a group of people DID fly planes into buildings and kill 3000 people, so I think it's safe to say that the declaration of war is justified. We'll just have to watch them a little more carefully than normal.

<<They can deny you your right to due process>>Actually, they did get a court to agree that habeas corpus could be suspended here. I'm inclined to agree that they have some evidence against him.
Yooper
MI
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 05:04:10 PM
IP: 208.4.94.56

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that we owe the French for our freedom. The French were basically Britain's arch-nemesis at the time. The enemy of my enemy is my ally, and all that. The successful revolution of the United States against Britain also served the French Extremely well in terms of well-being of their own Empire in the face of Britain.

It was definitely a "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" sort of arrangement to put Britain's testicles in a juicer.

Without France, we certainly would never have been able to get out from under the thumb of Britain. It wasn't so much the help the French gave us militarily (which didn't amount to much until the close of the war) but the distraction the French provided to force Britain to hold its attention other fronts in the world.

If the full weight of the British Empire had been set against the 13 Colonies, the American Revolution would have ended in a very decisive and messy fashion. On the other hand, had the full weight of the British Empire (including their 13 colonies) been pressed against the French Empire, the result would have been rather unfortunate for the French.

Beyond that, I'll note something:

It is always easy to throw rocks at people for making decisions you've never had to make in your life. That doesn't mean it is always wrong to call a mistake a mistake even if you haven't made it, but it is a reminder that context is important, and often our own circumstances make us blind to other people's situations.

It is easy to condemn one country for being too aggressive and war-like when your own foreign policy for a century has been to use them as a meat-shield. The world would not be a better place without the over-bearing USA. It would be a land dominated by Nazis or Soviets or worse, since no other country was capable of stepping into the places the United States did in the last 100 years.

Being a Superpower means your government is saddled with the responsibility of doing all the dirty work so her allies can go about living clean little lives and looking down their noses at your "barbarism."

Being a Superpower means that when nut-jobs like these terrorists want to make a statement against the West and everything you and your allies hold dear, they target YOU instead of Toronto or Olso. America is great for taking bullets for the rest of the free world, as well as drawing media attention away from other country's politics like China's constant, over-the-top human-rights abuses and political oppression or France's fun with Synagog burning or Germany's "pesky" problems with neo-nazi skinheads or Italy's continual economic love-affair with investments by criminal organizations.

It isn't easy being a Superpower. Being the tallest kid on the block means your easier to hit with rocks in a crowd, not that everyone looks up to you. It doesn't make the USA infallible, but the country performs a lot of important functions that the rest of the world would rather not do, but still wants to benefit from.

Perfect? Certainly not.
Necessary for you to continue to have the freedom to talk smack about the US from the safety of your own home? Absolutely.

Sesame Street Muppet >> It all depends on how you educate the kids. Sesame Street has historically dealt with heavy issues very well, in a way the promotes understanding, coping-skills, and responsibility in children.

You have to teach kids to be responsible and respectful when it comes to the HIV crisis in South Africa. Don't teach them that people with HIV are supposed to be a pariah, but don't let them think the HIV is just another disease that will be cured or "other people" will get instead of them. That sort of attitude in the African populous is what has made the initial AIDS education in Africa fall flat on its face in terms of curbing the spread.

Don't scare kids, but make them care.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 04:52:34 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

The German was a Hessian who betrayed the British. I think. I'm not sure why or when though and I can't remember his name either. Maybe I should try and relearn my history ;o)
Jinxed - [dajinxed1@yahoo.com]
Red Deer, Albrta, Canada
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 04:34:02 PM
IP: 24.70.95.205

LA> as jinxed and Stephanie D. already said, it happend during the American Revolution. (Keep in mind, I took my American history class this summer, so it's fresh in my mind). To add to what jinxed said, the American Forces were largely untrained, and whenever we fought with British, we usually lost a lot of soldiers (though we did win).

Anyways, America knew for a fact they wouldn't last against the British with the US's poorly trained army. The MArquis de Lafeyette, along with a Geman Captain (whose name escapes me), literally trained our forces into a respectable army.

Not only that, the King lent America ocnsiderable amount of soldiers, to aid the US, without which we probably would have crumbled.

Gabriel "gaygoyle" - [<--- French help witht he Revolution]
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 04:25:46 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

or MSN messenger.. i turned it on in case that would be better for you.

whichever format, i dont mind. :)
lain again
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 03:54:45 PM
IP: 65.92.92.19

sj>> well.. you might want to try clearing out that inbox of yours before you go expecting any emails.. from anyone..

i tried to give you my email and there was an error message saying: "The user sevariusjr@hotmail.com is over their storage limit. This mail has not been sent to the recipient(s). Please remove this recipient to send the message to other recipients"

since there *were* no other recipients.. i just havent sent the message yet. let me know when youve cleared that up and ill mail you with my address, okay?

you could, of course, just asked me to mail you.. :P
lain
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 03:53:39 PM
IP: 65.92.92.19

The French bailing out the US is referring to the Reveloution. The colonies has some French ships to enact a blocade for a short time during that war.
Side note... In the Civil War the Confederacy attempeted to make a treaty with the French for soldiers and weapons. If I remember my history right the French said no.
Jinxed - [dajinxed1@yahoo.com]
Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 03:48:36 PM
IP: 24.70.95.205

Luminous Aphrodite: After their own successful revolution, French philosophers and revolutionaries voyaged to the USA to help the Americans develop and win the American Revolution. The French government also supported the American Revolution with weapons and money.

More later.
Au revoir
Stephanie D - [scurtin@icao.int]
Montréal, Québec, Canada
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 03:33:27 PM
IP: 192.206.28.62

Bronx, thank you for the article link regarding Sesame Street. I'm glad and grateful to have all the facts on the issue now. (Personally I do think that having an HIV muppet introduced in a country that is dealing with HIV on a high rate daily basis is an intelligent idea. I'm not so sure that introducing it in America is as good of an idea, as it does exist here but is not overwhelmingly prevelant.) As for other issues, I have a QUESTION. How does America owe it's freedom and independence to the FRENCH? This isn't meant as hostile I just want to know the LOGIC behind the theory. Well, gotta jett for now. Time to perform my slave labor...*trudges out of room, shackles rattling as she heads towards current tasks*
Luminous Aphrodite
State of Grace
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 02:58:54 PM
IP: 67.208.85.16

Anyone know lain's email?

Cause I have an idea that my retorts to her would probably be better off sent in email than posted here.
Sevarius Jr. - [sevariusjr@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 01:17:56 PM
IP: 207.172.11.147

here's the article about Sesame Street if anyone was looking for it.

*goes back to lurking*
Bronx
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:02:52 PM
IP: 205.188.192.182

Back to infrequent posts:

Gabriel: <>: Dude, this is SJ. Duh.

Coyote: <<couldn't pay me to use an iMac>>: Who said anything about an iMac? There are three other models currently made, and you can go on ebay and get one of the older out of production models for *very* cheap. I'd only use an iMac if I were forbidden to spend the money on some other type of Mac, so I know how you feel.
Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
San Jose, CA, US of A
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:41:30 AM
IP: 63.65.68.246

and.. i had an epipheny in the shower:

it isnt really *american* national pride that ticks me off. its national pride in general. i am proud of my country, and flag waving once an year on the first of july, and during international sporting events national parades etc is allright. but if flags on tshirts with the CN tower on them werent pretty much exclusively used to label tourists in this county, i think i would be ticked off with canadian flag waving, too. so, to be fair, im not really trying to pick on americans with this one. it just happens that you seem to do a lot of this flag-waving stuff whereas i tend to like my national pride more introverted in flavour. "unspoken pride" as it were.
lain
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 10:21:47 AM
IP: 65.92.92.19

you still muisunderstand me.. but i suppose thats moot now, anyways.

i was not intending to "come in here and tell you americans what to think." how could i possibly do that? i am not so arrogant as to believe i have that kind of influence, here, or anywhere.

but i was under the impression this was a place where people could express their thoughts about different things - first of all TGS' gargoyles saga.. and other things, while TGS is on hiatus. as it seems quite common in here for people to come in and insult OTHER countries (who do not even have representatives who post and can defend themselves) it might be alright to have an opinion different than yours. well, i suppose its allright to have an opinion - as long as i keep it to myself.

perhaps i am mistaken in the reasons why americans wave flags. as i am not an american, this is quite possible - the only basis i have for the formation of my opinion is my own personal experience (as a canadian). i know when i wave my flag, i am waving for *everything* my country stands for, past and present, and the trials it has survived and the accomplishments blah blah whatever. maybe this is just me, i dont know.. but its all i have to go on. and it is *my opinion* that if my country was up to what your country seems to be up to, and i knew about it, i do not think i would have pride in that. but that is what *I* think - i was in no way trying to tell any one of you what *you* should think. again, what power have i to do such a thing. opinions cant be wrong, you know, and people can think whatever they want.

i do not lack pride in my country. and i am not "jealous" (as it was put) of yours. i am happy when i see things go well for you, but i am unhappy when i see other things. is this not allowed? am i not allowed to be worried? i think that should be allowed - if only because your nation does have influence over mine. im sure bush is pressuring cretien to put "security measures" in place which i would not like, either and the example he would use would be his own country. the united states has FAR more influence over us that "Mummy-Great Britain." we proved our worth and became our own country on the battlefields of WWI, as you might know if you read up on such things.

and yooper.. i was wondering.. you said the secret military tribunals have not been used yet. but.. theyre supposed to be "secret" so.. how would you know? o.O and its alright for us to violate the second ammendment.. because we dont *have* the second ammendment. its not a violation if youre violating something that doesn't exist.. and yes, i have problems with other nations as well. but, as everyone else is fond of pointing them out, i don't really feel the need to jump on the bandwagon. i dont like the frence justice system any more than you do.. however their method of electing leaders is interesting.

and fair enough, its quite possible that i might be absolutely mistaken for the reasons why americans wave flags. as i said before, the only experience i have is with being a canadian.. so thats all i have to work with. and youre right as well, that this doesn't quite fit the definition of "totalitarianism." however, what it DOES do is leave the door wiiiide open for that development. im glad you debate such things in your country. i wonder why such big stories dont make it into this forum, however - maybe wed rather talk about sesame street that the violations of your rights, i dont know.

and sj.. it didnt "ruin" the movie for me, where did i mention that? i said it was mildly anoying. actually, i was trying to make a little joke and have a little fun by painting myself with that "predictable" brush. i guess you just missed that point. ill make sure to put lots of stars and the words *******SARCASM******** around such comments in the future. just so you wont be so confused :P

at any rate, im through arguing. please try to understand that, although i might criticize your country sometimes (okay.. maybe often..) i dont "hate" you - or your country. i think you could be better, sometimes, just as i think MY country and any country could be better. but i dont hate. im not trying to tell you not to have pride in your country. as i said, i simply cannot do that. and it might well be that i am mistaken for the reasons why you wave your flag. you must forgive me for lacking the "american experience," as it were, that you have had and continue to have. i am sorry if my opinion offends you. sometimes, opinions in here offend me also and its not a pleasant feeling. what i am trying to say is not meant as an insult. i am not trying to say your country is the worst in the world - far from it. but if noone raises honest objections, how will it ever get better? i may have no right to do so, as an objective non-american, but if this is the case, then noone in here should be allowed to voice criticisms of any country other than their own.

*reloads CR*

oh, gabriel.. what am i going to do with you? o.O
lain
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 09:57:28 AM
IP: 65.92.92.19

offended lurjer> <<fought "tooth and nail" alone>>

That is an outright lie. America would be nothing had it not been for France. America is dependant upon other nations to survive (i.e. the middle east and it's oil). Get your facts straight before you jump down someone's throat.
The logic that's floating around this room seems to be that foreigners cannot critisize other countries. Funny seeing as how everyone seems to like to bash the French and other assorted countries like Palestein and Israel. I guess, according to this logic, you al should SHUT UP!!!

Yooper> The government (and not just democrats) enjoys declaring war and abusing it's powers. Bush is doing it as we speak. The gov't can confinscate reading lists and arrest anyone "suspicious" of terrorist activity; though that's not much, it gets worse. They can deny you your right to due process, which happened with Jose Padilla, and get away with it. And their excuse is an unconstitutional law that was passed during WWI.

And let's not even talk about capitalism and the industrial revolution where children and women and men were subject to 12+ hour wrokdays and insufficient wages. Thank God Socialism finally stepped in and put an end to those horrid practices and denied corporations their "freedom" to abuse workers.

I can at least respect Canada for not blaspheming God in the process of doing this. No one gives them credit for that.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 09:25:03 AM
IP: 129.120.35.51

I know its been a while. I've been in the states since July 1. I've been to New Orleans and enjoyed being back home for a while, plus I showed my hostess New Orlenas, and she is a deprived suburban child, so I think it was good for her to see homes that were over 30 years old, have two stories, and were built with imagination.

And for the last week, I've been back in Georgia with a little side trip to Orlando. Sorry about not coming by Spacebabie, but I was only there for three days with Lisa.

BTW, Lisa has her hearing dog, a black lab named Roxy.

In New Orleans, I saw my mother's new cats and frankly that was my main reaosn for seeing my mother at all (well that and the fact that she is good with money and won't live forever) Sebastian is soldi white and very affectionate, while Henry has white fur with black spots, like Spuds McKenzie.

But to get back to my mother and sister, they have no respect for me, and supposdly my mother misses me and wants me back. Does she miss her punching bag? My sister I could care less about. She's not that important to my life and was quite bitchy. My mother makes me uncomfortable, but she has her uses. Now to just find a way to seize her assets :)

Jan> <<While it has good intentions, I still believe that it is not up to a children's television show to introduce and discuss such serious issues as death... not to 2-7 year olds. It's not blinding them from the reality of life - but it's just far too much information to be giving these _young_ children. >> Death needs to be explained as a part of life. Only tragic when someone dies prematurely. Besides, when I was six, my father had a good firend who moved back to Sweeden and I told my teacher in Kindergarten that I wished the Oceans would dry up. My mother was called in and she said I wanted the oceans dry so my parnest coudl drive to Sweeden. Maybe if I was told that dried up oceans equaled Armageddon, I wouldn't have caused all that trouble when I was six. Also, the teacher told my mother I shouldn't know that much Geography before 1st grade. Well, I guess it is emberrassing when a 6 year old is better at geography than the avergae American adult.

<<Why does Sesame Street feel that they have the right to do this? Why can't they stick to being a fun show for the children, teaching them their ABCs, colors, catchy songs, numbers, etc.>> and selling their donor list to the Democratic party.

<<Death and terminal illnesses are not appropriate subject matters for these young children. Why not allow these children to have fun while watching their favorite characters instead of worrying about the cancer or HIV that one character might have and knowing that it's something bad? (The younger ones will have no concept of death)>> That's the parents' fault. Childrne shoudl ahve a concept of death and at least know five really morbid jokes beofre they turn eight.

<<Death and terminal illness is something that a parent should be discussing with their child - if it's necessary. A children's television show does not have the right to take that away from the parent - that's not the purpose of the show. It's not as if these children will never be exposed to such issues, but we're talking about 3 and 4 year olds! Do they need to be told about it at such a young age?? No. Why are people so anxious to burden these toddlers with such heavy issues?>> So they won't be so badly hit by the real world. I had to wait until I was ten to hera my first Helen Keller and thirten before I learned my first joke about a quadrapelic joining a baseball tam to be third base. I was fourteen before I learned any Challenger jokes. That is way too long.

<<This is not blinding children to the reality of life, this is allowing children to be children without burdening them with the harshness.>> Allowing children to be children. Now that is extremely cruel. I hated my childhood and woudl have loved to grow up a whole hell of a lot faster. Adolescence was tolerable and adulthood is better. There was a time when kids worked in factories at five instead of joining gangs of troublemakers.

<> Well, death by AIDS or death by starvation, genocide, change of a nation's command....Death by AIDS menas you survive the other stuff.

Mooncat> It's Life Goes on, and Downs Syndrome isn't sverely debilitating, like some disabilities. They are more functional than say Baldwin brothers :)

Jennifer> <<Spacebabie - 5'9" in heels? I am 5'10" in my bare feet. Being tall is a P.I.T.A.>> Height looks good on you ;)

<<This is all moot anyway. Children's Workshop has made this decision and is going forward with it. But you all have the ability to solve this problem. You don't even need to get up or write a letter. You simply pick up the remote... and TURN OFF THE TV.>> That requires parents to do their job, as opposed to trying to prolong their innocence. Leaving them with a pink robed priest is less detrimental.

<<Why not? Do you think that we don't have a problem with babies that are born with HIV here in the USA? Yes, it IS a problem here.>> But I doubt any make it that far to childhood.

<<Kids can be CRUEL. Most of it stems from not understanding the situation. They FEAR the bald kid in the chair. "Humans fear what they don't understand".>> We are born sociopaths or natural and beastlike. It's no surprsie we are still savages at 3. Parents teach tehir kids to fear what is different, instead of being curious an dinquisitive and instead of shunningthe kid, they should be curious and even ask persoanl questions that emberass the parents, but kids can do that and should.

Imzadi> <<She hates America though.>> Never would have guessed that ;)

<<No. I think he's a child molester.>> That's what I heard too.

Gabriel> <<I know *I* hated that scene. I wanted them all destroyed by a terrorist!! And in the end, I wanted spider-man to rip the flag down and wrap the president in it and set in fire; then laugh evily with a turbine on his head! >> I think setting Hillary Clinton on fire wuld be funnier. Well, if he dons a turban, he can be NY cabdriver :) Maybe their driving is part of a terrorist plot ;)

<<The sudden wave of patriotism is rather disgusting and hugely commercialized.>> I know. I iwsh I could have invested in it :)

JLA> <<Us Capitalist, Patriotic pigs appreciate your feeble Canadian dollar!! Honest! ($4? ...that's like...what? ... $.50 American?) >> A penny saved is a peny earned, but I don't know about Canadian money :)

Lain> <<im just saying i feel the amount and type of american propaganda thats coming out these days is nausiating (to me) and i think it will be damaging to your country in the long run. >> You're right. We used to have much better propaganda. Though Japan did a betetr job with the artistic quality of their propaganda. We do need propagandists that can porduce real quality stuff, like what Disney and Looney tunes used to do. Now that was quality!

<<my point was i feel that the rampant commercialization of flag-waving thats going on is damaging to the meaning that the flag is supposed to have.>> If we don't commercialize our flag and profit from it, then we aren't being Americans. We might as well be ruled by social workers, which reminds me, I need to make despairiging comments about them more often :)

<<sure there are hits that come out of canada. theres also lots of american films and music videos that use canadian studios and workers in the making of their films.>> Well, Canada is cheaper and now I learned that you cna get back the VAT taxes you pay for stuff up their. I'm definitely visiting Canada :)

<<they are rarely prejudice of others.>> Until their parents who bought the one story house in the middle of nowhere teach it to them.

<<and I didn’t require therapy, my children did not require therapy nor have any of my numerous adult friends.>> Everyone should have therapy, too bad its not that well covered on insurance.

Gabriel> <<SJ> It wasn't even a big deal til you, I, and others made it into one. I think you're just out to pick a fight.>> It is fun to watch when that happens ;)

Offended Lurker> Now to guess your identity....nah!! Not worth the effort. The shift key comment remind sme of someone, but he quit lurking and would mention himself by name.

I admit I have my own issues iwth my country and I think Bush should be kicked out of the GOP for the tarriffs he insituted. I also plan to buy a Japanese car, because I don't want to ever give a dime to the United Auto Workers, but I look at other countries and I'm gald I'm an American. I'm also glad we have Canada. Bush should drop our steel tarriffs and tell all the US stee grunts to go to Canada since all they know is the overpaid wages they receive at the assembly line for a job that can be done better and cheaper overseas. US steel is obsolete and expensive. Embrace foreign steel ad may it all our country through the port of New Orleans.

Enough for me. Now, off to enjoy my day ;)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Warner Robins, Georgia
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 09:16:58 AM
IP: 68.1.132.21

lain> You have some nerve coming in here and telling me what I as an American should think. Who died and made you God? < but i cannot comprehend pride and seeming blind acceptance of this, and other things. when you wave a flag, it is the latter for which you are waving.. > What are you talking about? Oh, now you're so "enlightened" that you somehow know exactly why Americans wave the flag? Hmmm? Can you answer that Oh-Intellectually-Superior-Canadian? Just because I choose to have pride in my country, doesn't mean I "blindly" accept all the wrongs it has committed. I feel sorry for you. Are you lacking such pride in your country that you have to come in here and insult mine? Hmmm? I'm proud of my country because it survived this long over many trials and tribulations of war, social injustices, and economic devastation. My country survived where many others have failed. You know, I think you're suffering an attack from a green-eyed monster called Jealousy. It galls you that most Americans can feel a sense of pride in our country that you cannot. This country from its birth had to rely on itself to survive. Meanwhile, lil' ol' Canada's still clinging to Mummy-Great Britain's apron strings. I can't see how someone from a country's who's constantly had support from “Mummy”, and didn't have to fight tooth and nail “alone” to survive, could understand the sense of pride the Flag and the values it represents brings many Americans. I admit that I'll never understand you. Thus ends my little ramble/rant. Btw, you know those two buttons on your keyboard that say “Shift”? Use them.
offended lurker
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 04:31:40 AM
IP: 216.160.98.136

I had to de-install my modem and reinstall it to get my internet connection back. *Crosses fingers that this solves my connection problems.* If you guys don't hear from me, you know something's up.

Wilek - I want weapons that DC fears so he will leave me alone. Nothing more, nothing less. Note: I've tried mind-altering devices, but the effects don't last after he dies and gets reborn. DNA based missile systems that are guaranteed to track people didn't discourage him.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 04:13:03 AM
IP: 204.94.193.15

Ahhh, it's good to be home. I just got back from nine days at the National Pistol Matches. I did crappy, but the team I was with had four members make the NRA/USA International Pistol Team. Oh well. Next year, I'm going to have some awards, too.

Hmmm, I'll see about catching up later, but I'm gonna take this one tonight:

Lain>><<retroactive proscecution>>Do you mean ex post facto? That is, in fact, illegal under U.S. law. U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9, Clause 3:
"No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed"

<<secret military tribunals>>Which haven't been used yet, and are susceptible to review by the Supreme Court. They may even be struck down. The Court can't act on an act of Congress or Executive Order until someone has actually been affected by it (and filed a court complaint)

<<where more than one court has had to throw out a case against a suspected terrorist because of evidence he was tortured by the government>>When such cases get thrown out, the system is working the way it's supposed to.

<<where it is allright to violate the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th ammendments to the constitution>>You forgot the 2nd, 9th, and 10th. And while we're at it, Canada, Britain, France, Australia, and a bunch of other "enlightened" countries which I can't remember at the moment violate the rights outlined in the 2nd (You have the right bear arms to defend yourself by virtue of being human, not because it's given to you by the government). In France, you have to prove your innocence, in Britain and France you do not have the "right to remain silent", and Britain is talking--secretly, until someone leaked the document--about sh*tcanning the right to a jury trial and prohibition of double jeopardy (see link) In Europe, it's possible for governments to get away with a lot of screwing around with reporters that would get U.S. politicians crushed by both the media and the courts.

<<where it is perfectly legal for the government to come into my house when i am not home, look around, take pictures, copy the hard drive of my computer and even remove my belongings - all without even telling me>>With a warrant.

<<seeming blind acceptance>>It may *seem* like blind acceptance, but actually we (I don't mean me and Jan, I mean Americans in general) spend a lot of time debating stuff like this. And yes, the governments here in the U.S. (Federal, State, Local) spend a lot of time stepping on people's rights. You are right about violations of the Bill of Rights. I spend a lot of time screaming at my television screen over new laws/regulations passed. The government spends a lot of time overregulating and overtaxing citizens and businesses. On the other hand, we haven't reached the socialist utopia where the government will try to take over a large sector of the economy and f*ck it up completely *cough*heathcare*cough*.

<<when you wave a flag, it is the latter for which you are waving>> No, actually, it's for the former. The citizens of the United States are striving to meet the *ideals* set forth in our Constitution. No system is perfect. Our courts, Congress, and President screw up quite a bit. But we seem to have lasted this long with our current system. The U.S. has done some pretty awful things to it's citizens in the past; slavery, internment of citizens of Japanese descent, to name a few. We ended both. Jim Crow laws are a thing of the past, and contrary to the misguided whining of many people on the left, racism is mostly a thing of the past in the mainstream Conservative movement. I just spent a week at Camp Perry competing in the National Matches. I could have probably spent the entire time searching for someone from the left and never found them. If someone had pulled out something from the KKK or other such psychotic group, they'd probably have been ostracized in short order. Things are getting better here, for the most part. I think our rights will survive this bit of turmoil.

<<than be subject to such totalitarianism.>>I'm going to paraphrase David Simpson (of "Ozy and Millie"): If this fits your definition of totalitarianism, you need to watch a holocaust movie. ANY holocaust movie. I could, without fear for my safety, own firearms, set up a web page criticizing every move the president has made, or get up on a street corner and say he's a usurper. ANY OF WHICH WILL GET YOU SHOT IN THE HEAD IN AN ACTUAL TOTALITARIAN SYSTEM. You make some very valid criticisms of U.S. policies; I agree with a few (a very few) of them, but you have completely lost perspective.

And since I'm rambling, I think I should call it a night.
Yooper
MI
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 03:06:56 AM
IP: 208.4.94.47

DPH> <<it appears my current arsenol of weapons isn't sufficient to discourage DC from bothering me. Can we arrange a weapons exchange of technology? I'm sure you would love to get your hands on DNA scanning missiles.>>
You've got my attention. >:) What need thee? I've figured out how to travel between dimensions (albeit only of the three-dimensional variety capable of supporting humanlike life; anything more exotic requires navigation and shielding whose particulars I've yet to work out), and I've got a marvelous skyship capable of laying waste to continents, not to mention technologies capable of manipulating and binding souls. If anything in particular happens to interest you, do leave a clue as to where I can get in touch with you. ;)
Wilek
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 02:13:54 AM
IP: 128.241.245.34

Did anyone read this in the news: The American president wants 1 in 24 US citizens to become spies? Sorry, but sounds like "1984" to me.

Mecord - <just had the same thing happen to me. only the target adress was one that I've never seen before. If you figure out what happened let me know.> Well, it's that damn computer virus on somebody else's machine. I know I'm clean.

Fire Storm - <If Disney IS getting back into all things Gargoyles, then do you think it is possible that they will want to take over the Gathering that happenes in the year of the 10th aniversary of Gargoyles?> Good luck for them making it through the bid process. By and large, I suspect the fandom would be against Disney doing it because of the Goliath Chronicles.

Congrats, Mandi.

Imzadi - <More stories. Supposedly they're on route. Don't ask when. No one knows.> Hmm. I bribed a member of Time Enforcers. What he told me was it does in fact happen this year probably within 3 months from me, unless history is altered. <And I got my health insurance waiver denied again. Every year I go through the same BS: send in the waiver form, get rejected because my policy doesn't cover the same number of mental in-patient days, then have to send in a signed form that says I'll pay for it. Why can't they just continue the waiver as long as I continue the policy!? Stupid.> Because it makes sense. <Many outlook virii will run automatically, without you doing anything.> :smiles: Hey, I don't use Outlook, but web based email.

*whistles and 1 billion Coyote robots start swarming all over the CR looking for DC. DC manages to destroy a couple hundred before being killed.*

One of the keys to winning is grossly outnumbering your opponents with overwhelming fire power.

If things get much worse, I'll have to have a contest about how many times I lost my internet connection every day.

Wilek - it appears my current arsenol of weapons isn't sufficient to discourage DC from bothering me. Can we arrange a weapons exchange of technology? I'm sure you would love to get your hands on DNA scanning missiles.

DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:37:33 AM
IP: 204.94.193.59

SJ> It wasn't even a big deal til you, I, and others made it into one. I think you're just out to pick a fight.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:09:04 AM
IP: 24.219.165.75

::blinks:: Kay. ::walks up to Wilek with her sanity in a pretty blue package:: The lady told me to leave my sanity with you.
Raine-sama - [nkechi33@aol.com]
Monday, July 15, 2002 11:53:11 PM
IP: 172.195.155.44

<<jan, perhaps you are correct in telling me it is unwise to come in here and "insinuate anything" against your patriotism. but you are right that i do not seem to understand the pride you americans have for your country.

if i lived in a country which allows random arrests and detention without hearings or trials, and retroactive proscecution, the concealment of presidential records, secret military tribunals, roving wire taps, the infiltration and surveillance of legal, domestic religious, labour and political organizations, the unfettered surveillance of private citizens, private business records and other materials without proof of probable cause.. where judges are *required* to issue blank warrants without proof of probable cause.. where more than one court has had to throw out a case against a suspected terrorist because of evidence he was tortured by the government.. where it is allright to violate the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th ammendments to the constitution of which you are so proud.. where it is perfectly legal for the government to come into my house when i am not home, look around, take pictures, copy the hard drive of my computer and even remove my belongings - all without even telling me.. no... i must admit i cannot conceive of having pride in that.

if this is a personal shortcoming of mine, then i am truly sorry for that. this, though, is how i feel. i can understand pride in the principles on which your nation was founded, but i cannot comprehend pride and seeming blind acceptance of this, and other things. when you wave a flag, it is the latter for which you are waving.. the violation of the very principles on which your country was founded. and no, i dont understand. i would rather leave my country than be subject to such totalitarianism. >>

You really are one of the saddest human beings I have ever had the displeasure of meeting in my short existence upon the planet.

Listen to you.

You've got all of this animosity towards are country that it actually ruined a goddamn COMIC BOOK MOVIE for you.

I mean, Jesus Christ.

"Gee, this is great, look at Spider-Man swing across the city! Oh, there's the American flag. Damn their oppressive patriotism."

A COMIC BOOK MOVIE. A billion and one flaws you could find with this movie, and THIS is the one that bothers you. The whole concept of a guy getting bit and turning into a mutant who can cling to walls is fine with you, it's the pesky patriotism which sticks in your craw.

I've had an epiphany - this is why we Americans are so self-centered and careless of the opinions of other nations. Because those opinions really ARE worthless.
Sevarius Jr. - [sevariusjr@hotmail.com]
Monday, July 15, 2002 11:48:52 PM
IP: 207.172.11.147

Imzadi: <<So far, I'm only missing "blue">>: You're not fuzzy. I'm fuzzy.
<<More stories. Supposedly they're on route. Don't ask when. No one knows>>: Now that was nicer than your usual answer. Any reason?
<<What are we on the bridge of doom or something?>>: Evil laugh.
<<You would>>: Yes, they are attracted to my manliness.
<>: The year after that, mine was AZOG, the orc Thorin fought when he got the name Oakenshield.
<<Try tough-actin' Tinactin>>: The psychics complained about how hard it is to apply it to your brain.
<<We had a leaky basement>>: Did you try grading?
<<You can make sandwiches with your CD burner?>>: Nah, I've got Easy CD Creator 3.5c.
<<That'd dogs, not cats>>: I can imagine the male of any species doing that.
<<Pain In The @$$>>: Ah. Yes, it is. Especially in a world designed for average people.

Mandolin>> Congratulations.

Gabriel> <<then laugh evily with a turbine on his head>>: I know he has spider strength. But a turbine is quite heavy. And I don't think it'd balance very well.

Spacebabie> <<Do you like Quiznos?>>: Don't got them in the area. But have been doing it myself with the oven set to broil and a smearing of olive oil.
<<I�ve been having toast for breakfast everyday for a week now>>: So have an english muffin. Or pancakes.
<<Wich is a bit of a pity>>: From your point of view. I prefer the other naughty pictures she gets.
<<Now Raine asked. Are you happy?>>: Yes. She was polite and not demanding about it. And if we're lucky, she might stick around.
<<He has to make a website on Feminism>>: Steal what you can from http://www.geocities.com/_labia_/
<<a guy who rearranges his room and isn�t gay>>: Are you so sure?

Lambent Venus> <<will someone tell me where the main article on this HIV character/muppet may be located>>: It should be in last weeks. Do a string search for Sesame or something.

Lain> <>: I say it'll pass eventually, and some people need to get it out of their system every now and then.
<<if i lived in a country which allows>>: We've got people trying to catch the bad guys, we've got people making sure they don't go about it the wrong way, and every now and then someone comes up with a better way of doing something and it sticks. All in all, it's a pretty good place.

Fire Storm> <<or can it play music CDs?>>: There is a direct connection from the drive to the sound card, so that might not mean anything.

CtB> <<When I try to access the drive through Windows Explorer, it gives me "The drive is not ready.">>: Could just mean that it can't tell there's a disc in the drive.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, July 15, 2002 11:48:03 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Click my name for a little party favor--nifty to look at, fun to use, and I'm sure a joy to experience. :P
Wilek
Monday, July 15, 2002 11:10:48 PM
IP: 128.241.245.34

Josh: Sorry, but with the crap I've dealt with regarding Apple ... you couldn't *pay* me to use an iMac.

FS: The drive won't read jack. It happened while I was playing a DVD, actually (in case it's the DVD and nobody else wants it to happen, it was Excel Saga vol. 1) ... the thing just stopped cold in the middle of the disc and wouldn't start back up. Next thing I know, it won't read *anything,* and I don't find this out until the next time I try to run Roller Coaster Tycoon. I checked the settings (it had gone automatically to "Disable" for some bizarre reason), changed them around so that it told me the device was "working properly," then rebooted several times and tried again ... and nothing. When I try to access the drive through Windows Explorer, it gives me "The drive is not ready." However, Control Panel/Devices says that it *is.* Who's lyin' out their ass to me?????
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Monday, July 15, 2002 11:07:28 PM
IP: 216.234.124.76

Coyote: <Any advice other than weapon selection?>
Hmm... tough call... Well, for the weapon, I find that torches, tazers and high explosives work REALLY well! ;)
Can it read standard CD-ROMS or can it play music CDs?
If yes... then beats the hell out of me! :)

G2004: Hmm... If Disney IS getting back into all things Gargoyles, then do you think it is possible that they will want to take over the Gathering that happenes in the year of the 10th aniversary of Gargoyles?
More likely than not, it won't. At that point, I say the drive is toast. Sucks, but I say warranty repair. If that is the case... let me get your data off of it first, because they will want you to send the whole thing in, and you won't get the same machine back (usually)
Fire Storm
Monday, July 15, 2002 10:18:58 PM
IP: 216.254.103.139

aaah allright.. one last attempt: for sj, crzydemona and jan:

patriotism is not, as jan said, a "strange and non-existent" concept to me because i am a canadian. i am patriotic towards my country. i love my country.. most of the time. it is where i was born and raised, and it has helped shape my current worldview. i do believe that, as a canadian, i have much history of which to be proud. so no, being canadian does not exclude me from knowledge of the concept of patriotism.

jan, perhaps you are correct in telling me it is unwise to come in here and "insinuate anything" against your patriotism. but you are right that i do not seem to understand the pride you americans have for your country.

if i lived in a country which allows random arrests and detention without hearings or trials, and retroactive proscecution, the concealment of presidential records, secret military tribunals, roving wire taps, the infiltration and surveillance of legal, domestic religious, labour and political organizations, the unfettered surveillance of private citizens, private business records and other materials without proof of probable cause.. where judges are *required* to issue blank warrants without proof of probable cause.. where more than one court has had to throw out a case against a suspected terrorist because of evidence he was tortured by the government.. where it is allright to violate the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th ammendments to the constitution of which you are so proud.. where it is perfectly legal for the government to come into my house when i am not home, look around, take pictures, copy the hard drive of my computer and even remove my belongings - all without even telling me.. no... i must admit i cannot conceive of having pride in that.

if this is a personal shortcoming of mine, then i am truly sorry for that. this, though, is how i feel. i can understand pride in the principles on which your nation was founded, but i cannot comprehend pride and seeming blind acceptance of this, and other things. when you wave a flag, it is the latter for which you are waving.. the violation of the very principles on which your country was founded. and no, i dont understand. i would rather leave my country than be subject to such totalitarianism.

:(
lain
Monday, July 15, 2002 09:58:22 PM
IP: 65.92.92.19

Josh> <<More and more, television is taking place of parenting>> and as long as we allow that, it will continue. Parents have become very lazy and television, schools, etc. have been enablers. <<if the concept is over their heads, does it really matter that its present?>> they don’t understand the reality and finality of death, but they know that it’s something “bad”.

Crzy> <<Kids can be CRUEL>> I have yet to see a 3 year old make fun of someone else who is different. That’s one of the marvels and innocence of a toddler… they are rarely prejudice of others. They play with another child because they like them and if they don’t play with them it’s simply because they don’t like them – has nothing to do with any physical “differences” they may have.
<<...yeah... that's racking up years of therapy bills later in life.>> I sincerely have my doubts that if a 3 or 4 year old is allowed the innocence from the “real” world they are going to need therapy later on in life. How many of us were explained the harshness of the world at such a young age? I’ll give my bets that not many… and I didn’t require therapy, my children did not require therapy nor have any of my numerous adult friends. That’s a bit over dramatic statement for you to make.
I never said that children should not be explained to the differences of other people. I just said that at age of 3 it was not appropriate, not necessary, and should be on a need to know basis. Different people are one thing – terminal illnesses are a different issue. Unless there is a physical appearance difference, why try and explain terminal illness to a toddler?
<<You don't even need to get up or write a letter>> yeah, that’s the way most liberals would like for anyone who opposes their points of view to do. Don’t complain, don’t protest, don’t speak out…
And I fully intend to change the channel in addition to whatever other protest I deem necessary.

Lain> I’m sorry that you don’t seem to understand the pride that Americans have for their country. It must be a strange and non-existent concept for you since you are Canadian. It really isn’t wise to come into a room full of Americans like this and insult or insinuate anything against patriotism of our country. *shakes head* nope, not a good thing to do.
Jan
Monday, July 15, 2002 07:30:29 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

gasp... too... many... polls...

But of the ones I managed to make time for,

Buffy Girl - Anya
Inner Buffy Bad Girl - Vampy Willow
Buffy Villian - Spike
Empire Records chara - Gina
Action Hero - Bond
Ho test - Not a ho
Fashion/style - classic beauty
Honesty - tactful

and then I got tired, got some milk and had a cookie. >^,,^<

gah... I have curtains to hang, floors to mop, and stuff.

later
MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Monday, July 15, 2002 04:42:37 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

crzy demona>> <<Thanks for paying the money to see Spidey!>> no prob. <<Us Capitalist, Patriotic pigs appreciate your feeble Canadian dollar!! Honest!>> im sure you do <<$4? ...that's like...what? ... $.50 American?>> something like that, yeah <<Good Lord... Get over it...>> get over what, precisely? <> sure there are hits that come out of canada. theres also lots of american films and music videos that use canadian studios and workers in the making of their films. <> what was the point of that sentance? o.O i was pointing out a trend in american media in general, not criticizing you for having a 20' flag and waving it around. *I* might have a 20' canadian flag that i wave around, so what? that wasnt what i was talking about at all. if you want to wave it around, you go right ahead. my point was i feel that the rampant commercialization of flag-waving thats going on is damaging to the meaning that the flag is supposed to have. im not trying to demean your flag.. im just saying i feel the amount and type of american propaganda thats coming out these days is nausiating (to me) and i think it will be damaging to your country in the long run. i feel it trivilaizes the gravity of what happened.. and i dont think thats good. thats all i was trying to say. you can feel free to not agree, but please dont put words in my mouth.

but again, why are we even discussing this? you arent going to change my mind.. and im not going to change yours. if youd like to continue this in email, thats fine.. but like i said, it would be pretty pointless.. i know you dont like my opinion.. and i dont much like yours. so lets just leave it alone.

i wasnt particularly trying to be offensive, and im sorry if it came across that way. i will try to be more careful and clear in my expressions of my opinions in the future.
lain
Monday, July 15, 2002 04:11:03 PM
IP: 65.92.89.65

Lain - Thanks for paying the money to see Spidey! Us Capitalist, Patriotic pigs appreciate your feeble Canadian dollar!! Honest! ($4? ...that's like...what? ... $.50 American?)

Good Lord... Get over it... I mean, Spidey wasn't nearly as big of a hit as that awesome movie that came out of Canada.... oh ... wait... There ARE no big hits that come out of Canada... sorry, my bad. I must have been standing in the streets screaming and waving my 20' tall flag around and forgot that fact.

Silly me...
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Monday, July 15, 2002 03:54:19 PM
IP: 216.249.101.185

oh, sj.. *sigh*

<<Thought so. I'm so overwhelmingly NOT surprised>> nope, yer wrong, surprise surprise.. ;)

i wasnt actually referring to that scene at all. while it made me want to gag a little for its lack of realism, (im reminded of the story of how a crowd of people on a bridge like that in america gathered around to watch some guys beat another guy to death.. and didnt do a thing..) i remind myself it WAS a movie about a mutant super-human with spider-powers so realism is kinda.. a none-issue. that scene actually made me laugh a little.
i appreciated the plain statement of the cleanup worker talking about spider-man on the "ground zero" site. that was fine, and tasteful. i was really referring to the (in my opinion) completely pointless ending of the movie with spiderman atop the.. what was it.. empire state building? dangling off the bigass american flag. like.. as though any audience member could POSSIBLY have forgotten that the movie was set in america. duh.

you can put it down to a cultural difference. if i was american, maybe id feel differently about having my own country rammed down my throat everywhere i went.. but since im not.. i have a different viewpoint on the matter. im sure you wouldnt much like it if most of the movies you saw were constantly beating you in the face with and trying to lull you into complacency with images of the greatness of china.. get real :P

but, i suppose if youre one of those who isnt really bothered by the bastardization and almost ritual manipulation of the symbol of your nation that has been rampant in the months following the september 11 attacks, and if all the mechanical, shameless flag-waving really turns you on.. well.. far be it from me to deny your pleasure..

Gabe>> aaaaah now i remember why i love you... :D

and dont you go complaining about all the rampant commercialism. didnt you know its your patriotic duty as a citizen of america to go out and spend your money after september 11? tisk tisk. <<This is nothing short of a trend and it will fade soon. That's how trends work>> no no, you misunderstand. this isnt a trend at all.. its a deeply entrenched part of american culture.. come, my friend, come to canada where we are quitely patriotic.. and wave *little* flags.. sometimes..

re: sesame street>> well.. i guess ive graduated from watching sesame street.. and since i dont have and am not planning to have children in the near future, i really dont care WHAT they put on the show.

finished my essay. huzzah. report at a later date as to the mark ;)

love,
lain
Monday, July 15, 2002 03:24:44 PM
IP: 65.92.89.65

Imagine my surprise when I check out TGS and the main topic of debate is Sesame Street! Coincidently will someone tell me where the main article on this HIV character/muppet may be located so that I can peruse it and come to a personal informed opinion? Off the top of my head I'd say that it's brave of Children's Workshop to approach this topic. In a way tho it's also kinda sad...because it is part of the shadowing of the death of innocence and being pulled into the real world.
Luminous Aphrodite
Maryland
Monday, July 15, 2002 03:18:38 PM
IP: 67.208.85.56

I am: Lucas (really, is anyone who's met me surprised by this?), Bond, Lord Nikon, and Wesley (though if I confess to being a vampire I become Angel). I'm also not a ho. My sidekick is Cameron (from Ferris Bueler). My inner buffy bad-girl is faith 8-)

Personally, I'd rather be inside faith than the other way around.
Josh
Monday, July 15, 2002 02:47:53 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

More fun tests. click me!

Retook the Spark's Purity, Slut, and Bitch tests.
my Purity level has lowered a bit and both my slut and bitch levels have risen

plus I took the new one and I'm 78 percent dateable.
She’s crafty tests.

Action hero..I’m Die Hard
Empire Records character: I’m A.J
Breakfast Club character: Claire
Buffy girl: I’m Buffy
Buffy Bad Girl: I’m Faith
And I will survive in a horror movies.

Mooncat<<<but there was a TERRIFIC live action tv show which had a Downs Syndrome main character/actor.>>>Was that Life Goes On? My family used to watch that show.

Jennifer<<<5'9" in heels? I am 5'10" in my bare feet. Being tall is a P.I.T.A.>>> Wow No one you could carry off that Xanatos costume so well. I wouldn’t mind being as tall as the boy, being able to see eye to eye. So I could spit into his eyes.

Raine>>>Welcome to the cr. See that nut job holding a large jar in the corner? That’s Wilek. Please leave your sanity with him.

Leo<<<This is wierd. I swear that at the Gathering that we stood at eye level.>>>You felt a little shorter than me. I was closer to seeing eye to eye with Mara~sama.

Gside<<>>Do you like Quiznos? I’ve been having toast for breakfast everyday for a week now.<<<Endless yowling?>>>You hit the nail on the head.<<<No, just that she didn't get any this time.>>>Wich is a bit of a pity.<<<A newbie who didn't ask when it's starting up again? Will wonders never cease?>>>Smooth, Now Raine asked. Are you happy?

Josh--- Hey dude my brother needs your help. He has to make a website on Feminism and well you do go to Berkley…I have to do all the html and crap.<<<All that DRM crap in their software>>>No Toast as in what bread becomes when you slide it into the toaster.<<<Yeah, hot pussy is the worst...uh, never mind>>>Pours a bucket of ice water onto Josh.<<<think I will be doing something similar in my room soon.>>>Wow a guy who rearranges his room and isn’t gay.<<<At least you have a regular schedule. I clean when the dust bunnies become sentient.>>>And try to steal your chocolate.<<<Yup, pretty much.>>>Figured<<<Sure.>>>Hope you never suffer from Jock itch.<<<Do you spank your monkey when he's sick?>>>Are you saying SJ is MY sick lil monkey?<<<If I developed diabetes, I'd probably commit suicide>>>They do make sugar free desserts.

Mandi>>>Congrats on the new place.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Monday, July 15, 2002 12:18:38 PM
IP: 65.57.80.184

revel> <> Isn't it just SHOCKING!! O.O

SJ> <<Meet the feebles>> Ahhh, so I am not the only one who has seen that >:)

<<I'm guessing you didn't like the scene where the New Yorkers banded together, right?>>

I know *I* hated that scene. I wanted them all destroyed by a terrorist!! And in the end, I wanted spider-man to rip the flag down and wrap the president in it and set in fire; then laugh evily with a turbine on his head! All in the name of liberalism!! Get a grip.

The sudden wave of patriotism is rather disgusting and hugely commercialized. Now you too can by spider-man shirt with him holding a flag! If you don't get one, you're not in the in-crowd and you hate America! This is nothing short of a trend and it will fade soon. That's how trends work.

HIV muppet> South Africa, with it's huge HIV number, needs a muppet like this to bring understanding among the children. None of us live in South Africa (to my knowlege), so really none of us can sit here and blast them for doing this. If children are being out-casted for having HIV, then something should be done without a doubt. Nothing can hurt a child more than being out-casted by his/her own peers for being born with something.

"You're not nice, you're loose. And you dwink."
---Meet the Feebles.
Gabriel "gaygoyle."
Monday, July 15, 2002 09:46:57 AM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Congratulations, Mandi!

Oh, and happy birthday, lain!
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, July 15, 2002 06:53:01 AM
IP: 65.57.57.103

**runs back in with a [insert whatever kind you like] cake**

Happy birthday, Lain!

Okay, I'm going for real now.

**runs out**
Mandolin
Monday, July 15, 2002 06:49:50 AM
IP: 199.173.225.2

**comes in grinning from ear to ear**

After allergies, storage fun, and two weeks at Grandma's, I'm happy to say that I have FINALLY moved all my stuff in to my NEW APARTMENT! Whoo-hoo! No more roommate! No more trying to get my grandma to let me do something for her! I'm finally moved in!!!

Yeah, that's all; I'm giddy and had to share. :)

Real post later. Promise.
Mandolin
Monday, July 15, 2002 06:48:46 AM
IP: 199.173.225.2

More test prep work and class today. Fun fun.

If you haven't seen the article titled "Are Mac Users Smarter", I suggest you read it. Of course, it doesn't actually suggest that we're smarter, just better educated and rolling around in cash. No, it wasn't commissioned by Apple. But it is the best mac/PC flamebait I've seen since John Dvorak (whose mere existence is flamebait for the eternal debate. It's on MSNBC.com (hows that for irony) in the "tech and science" section. This is just to point out the article, if you want to flame me about it...do it somewhere else.

Warpmind: <<you're *really* gonna hate the lik I've supplied>>: Actually I laughed hysterically. Except for the flagrant mac-flaming and bald-faced lies, it was very funny. I love Apple parodies, truth be told. Especially when they highlight quirks of the Apple process/hardware. <<Click my name for a link that's sure to annoy Mac users>>: see above.

Jan: <<The younger ones will have no concept of death>>: if the concept is over their heads, does it really matter that its present? By 7, I think children should be aware of death and terminal illness. Just being aware of something doesn't ruin your innocence. The first time I asked "where do babies come from?" was a long time before anyone could claim I'd lost my innocence. <<A children's television show does not have the right to take that away from the parent - that's not the purpose of the show>>: I disagree. More and more, television is taking place of parenting (like it not, I know I don't, but it is true). As such, I think these things should be taught. <<Do they need to be told about it at such a young age??>>: You just said they won't understand anyway! <<it's not necessary for a character to be created in the USA>>: It may never get here. Political realities are very different here, and that could completely block it. <<my 3 cents worth>>: Oh I see, so your thoughts are worth 50% more than anyone else's, huh? ;-)

Patrick: <<why so many people who grew up watching it (including me) still admire "Sesame Street" so much>>: For me, its cookie monster. Quite frankly, I've always wanted to be a blue fuzzy guy who sings badly and eats cookies all day. So far, I'm only missing "blue". You can reach your goals. BEEFCAKE! <>: You're gonna have kids at 50?!

Spacebabie: <<Toast>>: Yeah, Roxio pisses me off too. All that DRM crap in their software. <<My cat being in heat>>: Yeah, hot pussy is the worst...uh, nevermind. <<It looks bigger now>>: i think I will be doing something similar in my room soon. <<When does the average person stop growing?>>: Girls usually stop by 18. Guys can keep growing into their early 20's. <>: At least you have a regular schedule. I clean when the dust bunnies become sentient. <<still “It’s better than Barney”>>: 30 minutes of dead air would be better than barney. <<Are you saying that Christine only likes NAKED pics of Jericho?>>: Where would we ever get such an idea?! <<Just ugly?>>: Yup, pretty much. <<my brother and father are still taller than me>>: So? Is *that* a reason to freak? <<do you also have shapr claws that jut out of the top of your wrists?>>: Sure. <<Two words: ”Windows Rulz”>>: Contrary to the belief of script kiddies, "rulz" is not a word. <<Californian Health Care>>: Actually its UC Health Care. Its actually a very good policy, but I'm already covered by a better one. <<YOU SICK LITTLE MONKEY>>: Do you spank your monkey when he's sick? <<My Great Grandmother had diabetes. She explained why she couldn’t eat sugar>> If I developed diabetes, I'd probably commit suicide. I can't live without sugar.

Mooncat: <>: You've obviously never met me.

Crzy: <<Kids should never be allowed to watch TV unsupervised>>: I'm starting to agree with that. But wouldn't it annoy you to no end to have to watch Pokemon? <<You don't even need to get up or write a letter>>: Woohoo! My favorite form of activism! <>: I hate you, kenny.

Revel: <>: Do we really want to know?

Raine-sama: <<You people are geniuses>>: We know. <<What's starting up again?>>: More stories. Supposedly they're on route. Don't ask when. No one knows.

Lain: <<ive had so many phonecalls today its not even funny>>: HAHAHA...oh wait you said it wasn't funny. <<WHATS GOING ON?>>: We normally wish people a happy b-day. <<2005? yeah.. the gatherings at MY house>>: Will we all fit? Assuming we don't all share sleeping bags, that is (which is unlikely. <<threespeed BOX FAN!>>: I want that. <>: I get that from my mac 8-) <<a loofa actually embedded IN the soap>>: How are you supposed to use that? <<looks at josh laughing in the distance>>: I'm only laughing a little.

Coyote: <<I'm about ready to rip the machine a new @$$hole>>: I wasn't aware computers *had* @$$holes. <<I'm about ready to rip the machine a new @$$hole. Any advice other than weapon selection?>>: www.apple.com/switch

Leo: <<does anyone else think Fred Rogers is Gay?>>: No. I think he's a child molester. <>: My epileptic (sp?) seizures are often triggered by excessive punctuation. <<Earnie stuck a bananna in his ear>>: I wasn't aware this was a gay stereotype. <<Bert's fascination with pigeons>>: Or this. <<he'll probably say something about why they always target the imacs>>: Its the easiest to mock, because its the most different. They should see some of the products that *didn't* make it to market. But if they really wanted to mock the iMac that they refered to, they wouldn't have gone all candy-colored, cuz Apple doesn't do that anymore. The only thing that really struck me as stupid in the whole thing was bitching about how floppy drives aren't considered "necessary" by Apple. <<Who uses serial ports anymore>>: Or for that matter, floppy drives! <<Are you sure that maybe you dont have a strange groth on the top of your head>>: HAHAHAHA. <<C is for Coo-kie. That's good e-nough for me>>: Oh, cookie cookie cookie starts with C!

Sevarius: <<I'll personally be disappointed if I don't see some lesions upon her felt skin>>: She has HIV, not AIDS. Difference. <>: She hates America though.

Gside: <<Don't Whiz On The Electric Fence>>: Yay for Ren & Stimpy! <<Is that silvery or standard?>>: What are we on the bridge of doom or something? <<I've gotten two crank calls like that>>: You would. <<They were probably attracted by the phone number (3FAGS)>>: I love having phone #'s that don't stand for anything. <<To which I say, "Why bother?">>: Because at some point my hair goes from "surfer reject" to downright unprofessional looking. <<One or two can be, on occaison>>: They don't count. <<The best part was the number of "invalid signature removed"s in the first part>>: I clicked right to the last few to find the good ones. <<You never will be hairy enough>>: I dunno, my father is quite the gorilla. <<it was also burning a bit too much>>: Try tough-actin' Tinactin. <<Truly elegant flamebait draws it out much longer>>: True. <>: As do I. But I don't think "live until you can max out your forces" is a strategy. <<What if it had cable?>>: The cable company in our area is currently under investigation for fraud 8-) <<Any bets on how many misconceptions he's going to disprove?>>: I can't *disprove* any, really. Just offer evidence or opinion to the contrary. There's no *facts* that verify whether dual GHz G4's are faster than one 2.4 GHz P4. Just a bunch of varied tests. No facts about whether or not people need floppy drives. Or even monitors for that matter. <<Don't forget the basement>>: We had a leaky basement. Every winter when it rained, we'd get 2 inches of water. <>: You can make sandwiches with your CD burner? <<Your leg isn't safe?>>: That'd dogs, not cats. <<Though you do grow every night>>: You also shrink every day. <<Eh?>>: Took me a second too. Pain In The @$$. <<A newbie who didn't ask when it's starting up again? Will wonders never cease?>>: Check the temperature in Detroit. You know, considering its often cold in detroit, one must be careful when they use that phrase. It just doesn't work in January.

Oh, who am I kidding. Flame me here. I won't be here for many days. In fact, I should be gone until the end of August, if you're lucky.

They've really got my balls in a juice maker.
-Mr. Tweek, South Park

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
San Jose, CA, US of A
Monday, July 15, 2002 01:32:14 AM
IP: 207.214.212.26

Not to sound like a total newbie but: What's starting up again?
Raine-sama - [nkechi33@aol.com]
Monday, July 15, 2002 01:05:04 AM
IP: 172.193.201.55

Wilek> <<You sure you wanna know?>>: Evil laugh.
<<the aftermath of the Great Flood, had the liquid in that case been whiz>>: Is that whiz as in "Don't Whiz On The Electric Fence," or whiz as in cheese whiz?
<<Do not allow a marmoset anywhere near that outline or you will doom us all>>: Marmoset you say? Is that silvery or standard?

Gabriel> <<No, not THAT, you sicko>>: I've gotten two crank calls like that. They were probably attracted by the phone number (3FAGS).

Happy birthday Lain.

Imzadi> <<Haircut>>: To which I say, "Why bother?"
<<We are not nice>>: One or two can be, on occaison.
<<Did you read some of the "signatures"?>>: The best part was the number of "invalid signature removed"s in the first part.
<<Such a warm welcome>> Ι thought so.
<<You wouldn't know>>: You never will be hairy enough.
<<If it blinds, it blinds>>: But it was also burning a bit too much.
<<So?>>: If it's too obvious, there'll only be one round of expletives before going away. Truly elegant flamebait draws it out much longer.
<<I've never played any warcraft game. I'm quite an accomplished broodwarrior, though>>: Exactly. With strategy games, I enjoy building up massive forces and rolling over easy computer players.
<<if they moved somewhere that didn't have DSL>>: What if it had cable?

Warpmind> <<you're *really* gonna hate the lik I've supplied>>: Any bets on how many misconceptions he's going to disprove?
<<Keep up the good work, ya creep>>: You know where I could get a good marmoset?
<<may your roof never leak>>: Don't forget the basement. If it does, you might want to grade the ground next to the house. And I just happen to know where you can get a good bit. Rather clayey, though.

Spacebabie> <>: I like a nice toasted sandwich.
<<My cat being in heat>>: Your leg isn't safe? That's just for males though. Endless yowling?
<<When does the average person stop growing?>>: When they start shrinking. Though you do grow every night.
<<Are you saying that Christine only likes NAKED pics of Jericho?>>: No, just that she didn't get any this time.

JLA> <<Being tall is a P.I.T.A>>: Eh?

Raine> Welcome.

A newbie who didn't ask when it's starting up again? Will wonders never cease?

Lain> <<he also bought me some cheese. yum>>: Heck yeah.

Leo> <<What did I ever do to you?>>: You took his top ten spot, of course.

And the new mp3 is Blackrock and Roll from the Warcraft III soundtrack, compoesed by Derek Duke.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:45:32 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

*reads HIV muppet talk*

Yes, let's all pin a medal on Sesame Street.

Personally, I wanna see what they're gonna do with the muppet. Will she take some AIDS drugs? Will the other muppets refuse to use the same bathroom? I'll personally be disappointed if I don't see some lesions upon her felt skin.

It'll never be as funny or poignant as "Meet the Feebles", though.

Lain: <>

WOW, of all the criticisms I've seen thrown against a comic-book movie, and this film in particular, I don't quite think ANYONE has ever critiqued the flick for being "too patriotic". I'm guessing you didn't like the scene where the New Yorkers banded together, right? Thought so. I'm so overwhelmingly NOT surprised.

"Hooray for Aids!"
---Jarrod, South Park
Sevarius Jr. - [sevariusjr@hotmail.com]
Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:41:51 PM
IP: 207.172.11.147

***Spoilers***
I saw the new "Haloween" movie tonight. It was a big disapointment. Maybe it's because it was by the same idiot who made the lousy sequals -4,5,6. Or the lame-ass way around the ending of "H2O" Or maybe it's because the a certain character gets killed off in the first 10 minutes. <couJamghieCouLeegh's> It ruined everything that was achieved with "H20" (which, for good reason, chose to ignore 4,5,6 - not to mention 3 which had nothing to do with Michael Meiers) It was a suckfest.

Sesame Street:

An ADD character? I think they already had one (not counting all the muppets on the show that have it anyway and just aren't medicated. Grover, Elmo, Tina, etc)

Children's Telivision Workshop (or whatever it is now) has always made high quality childrens programming - with the possible exception of "Mister Roger's Neighborhood" (Hey, does anyone else think Fred Rogers is Gay?) I trust their judgement. Beside "Sesame Street" there also "Electric Company," "School House Rock" (Remember that Simpson's episode with the ammendment?) Those two are no longer on the air and I think they're much more attention holding than dancing dinosaurs singing reworded nursery songs or vocabulary impared bugeyed aliens that live on a planet that's nothing but grass and has a baby's head sun. (Bless those Newgrounds-Atomic guys and how they ripped into that show.) Anyway, Sesame Street rulz! If I had to take a side in this debate it would have to be the side that supports: if YOU don't like something, YOU handle it within your home, don't watch it/read it, or pick something else. If the kids happen to "accidently" see *it*, have a "sit-together" and talk with them about *it*. Don't complain to the networks, principals, school boards, and tell them that because YOU don't approve of something a telivision program (or "masterwork" of literature) covers, that they should remove said offending material from the program (or curriculum) and keep others, who aren't so ultra sensitive, from maybe learning something.

Woah, didn't mean to rant like that. I hope nobody's head's spinning after reading that.

Bert and Ernie and homosexuality: Let's see..
Besides sleeping in the same room (but not same bed)
Earnie stuck a bananna in his ear. He has a rubber duckie. In the christmas episode, Bert bought Earnie a *pink* soapdish to hold his rubber duckie so he[Bert] wouldn't accidentaly sit on it in the tub. (Each year he got it fom Mr Hooper even after he died on the show) Earny eats cookies in Bert's bead (with Bert). Hmm.. what can we gather from Bert's fascination with pigeons.
<that ends that line of thinking>

OK finally, Replies:

Warpmind:<<And I ALMOST made Top Ten. Leo, I hate your guts now. ;)>> *blinks* What did I ever do to you?<<Oh, and you're *really* gonna hate the lik I've supplied.>> I think he'll find it amusing, then he'll probably say something about why they always target the imacs. "that's only one of their products" or something. Or maybe he'll comment about "lic" instead of "link." Or maybe I'm just BSing.

SpaceBabie:<<Optic Pro 9360P flatbed>> Then would "Gourry" by any chance mean "Increadibly slow" in Spacebabish ? :-)
I Looked "Gourry" up. "Gourry" is a SERIAL scanner. No wonder XP hates it. Who uses serial ports anymore :-)<<I'm 5'7"...When does the average person stop growing?>> This is wierd. I swear that at the Gathering that we stood at eye level. Are you sure that maybe you dont have a strange groth on the top of your head? :-)

*Leaves singing* "C is for Coo-kie. That's good e-nough for me.....
Leo
Yorktown, Va
Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:31:38 PM
IP: 172.160.206.201

coyote>> heeeeey... my CD-ROM drive just spontaneously stopped working too.. all i have is my floppy. wieeeerd..
*looks at josh laughing in the distance*
hey quit that, you
;)

..okay, procrastination much? :P
lain
Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:19:12 PM
IP: 65.92.89.65

Fire Storm: Okay, my *one* computer with the virus problem seems to be okay, now could ya give me advice on my other problem? My CPU with the DVD-ROM drive in it has suddenly lost the ability to read the DVD-ROM drive. System says everything's normal. I'm about ready to rip the machine a new @$$hole. Any advice other than weapon selection? ;)
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:12:16 PM
IP: 216.234.123.179

.... and whats going on with my IP? huh?

its.. different..?
lain
Sunday, July 14, 2002 09:33:52 PM
IP: 65.92.90.73

woohoo!
happy birthday to me!

thanks to all for the well wishes :) ive had so many phonecalls today its not even funny!

I FEEL SO POPULAR!! WHATS GOING ON?! :D

2005? yeah.. the gatherings at MY house ;)

anyway.. for my birthday, my dad gave me the best present ever. a super cool.. ginormous.. threespeed BOX FAN!!! im sitting in front of it right now! :D i practically need a seatbelt to keep me in my computer chair - and thats with it on LOW! WOOHOO!

dad came to see me yesterday.. and it was the nicest day ive had with him in.. well.. a very long time. like.. 7 years long time. it was good :)
he bought me a papyrus plant (which is gonna be HUUUUUGE!!!! 8 feet tall!!!), some nice smellysoap (with a loofa actually embedded IN the soap) and some really yummy smelling chocolate raspberry coffee. i dont drink coffee, cant stand the smell of it.. but this one smells SOOOOOOOO good! he also bought me some cheese. yum. :D

so im all happy, anyways. :) i went to see spider-man with a co-worker friend of mine. (i actually paid 4$ to see it, this time.. last time was FREEEE!) and it was just as annoyingly patriotic and filled with advertising as it was the first time.. but it had really *REALLY* cool french horns.. so i forgive it. plus.. tobey is hot so.. it was all worthwhile :D

now, to round out my birthday evening, i get to do the rest of the 3/4 of that essay thats due tomorrow.. at 10am.. oooo and another on friday.. such joy! i cant contain myself!

:P

but it was a good day, thanks all :)

love,
lain
the Great White North
Sunday, July 14, 2002 09:30:22 PM
IP: 65.92.89.89

You guys are INCREDIBLE!! I'm not even done with the 2nd season of your Gargoyles stories and I'm dying to read all of it! You people are geniuses! I look forward to finishing all of your "Gargoyles" work someday and I've always looked forward to reading an episode or two during my freetime online. It's so great to meet fellow Gargoyles fans that look past the animation and pretty colors. You guys keep up the good work, y'hear?
Raine-sama - [nkechi33@aol.com]
CA
Sunday, July 14, 2002 09:17:12 PM
IP: 172.194.245.231

Wow, it actually worked.

Happy birthday Lain, and I know what she does when she's on the phone.
Revel
Sunday, July 14, 2002 04:44:08 PM
IP: 64.12.96.138

?
Anonymous
Sunday, July 14, 2002 04:43:01 PM
IP: 64.12.96.138

Ooops.. Sorry!
Robyn C.
Sunday, July 14, 2002 03:05:26 PM
IP: 65.92.89.89

...
Anonymous
Sunday, July 14, 2002 02:59:43 PM
IP: 65.92.89.89

Seasame Street - I wonder if this would all be more acceptable to people if it was a cancer patient intead of an HIV positive child. hmmmm.

Jan - <<< Why are people so anxious to burden these toddlers with such heavy issues?>>> Because babies and children die too. Moreso in South Africa.

<<<There are programs in schools that deal with different medical issues such as cancer, epilepsy, HIV, etc. But with these programs, a counselor is available to discuss it one on one.>>> I certainly hope this isn't implying that you would sit your kid down in front of the television and NOT discuss the content of whatever they are watching with them. I hate it when people use TV to teach and babysit their kids. Kids should never be allowed to watch TV unsupervised.

<<<Does a 3 year old reject a playmate because he/she has cancer?>>> Reject them? Yes. Make fun of the loss of their hair? that they are in a wheelchair? YES... Kids can be CRUEL. Most of it stems from not understanding the situation. They FEAR the bald kid in the chair. "Humans fear what they don't understand".

<<<But, it's not necessary for a character to be created in the USA>>> Why not? Do you think that we don't have a problem with babies that are born with HIV here in the USA? Yes, it IS a problem here. Through no fault of their own... no sexual digressions, these babies are born to a world that would rather ignore the fact that they exist instead of try to help them. It's horrible... and it's very real.

<<<Some children in America have enough to deal with - poverty, being homeless, abusive parents, drug addicts for parents, etc. Don't they deserve an opportunity to watch their favorite Sesame Street character without the burdens of other issues?>>> So let's show them a happy, cheerful, death free world so they KNOW what outcasts they are! "this is the perfect world, and NOTHING about you belongs here!" ...yeah... that's racking up years of therapy bills later in life.

This is all moot anyway. Children's Workshop has made this decision and is going forward with it. But you all have the ability to solve this problem. You don't even need to get up or write a letter. You simply pick up the remote... and TURN OFF THE TV.

Spacebabie - 5'9" in heels? I am 5'10" in my bare feet. Being tall is a P.I.T.A.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Sunday, July 14, 2002 01:32:02 PM
IP: 216.249.101.31

On the Seseme Street topic --

Jan <<Death and terminal illness is something that a parent should be discussing with their child - if it's necessary. A children's television show does not have the right to take that away from the parent - that's not the purpose of the show. >>

As I see it, Seseme Street isn't going to "take that away" anything from any parent. If you want to personally educate your children, go for it, ***no one is stopping you***. If you want to prevent your children from having a safe and comfortable introduction to real life issues, no one is forcing you to stick them in front of the TV set either.

The purpose of Seseme Street is EDUCATION, more than *just* numbers and letters (hello, SCHOOL!!!), and frankly I think they are doing a terrific job.

Seseme Street isn't harming any child's "innocence". A child will watch Seseme Street, and become familiar with real life issues in a way that is comfortable for children. I hardly think seeing a Seseme Street is going to turn children into hard eyed soulless little beasts to see a muppet person with a disability deal with it in a strong and dignified manner. =)

A child suddenly orphaned, a child witness to a crime on the street or serious accident, a child being smacked bloody by an abusive caregiver, a child who lives with a drug addict, a child who is sexually molested, or one who is taunted and tormented for being different... those are children who face a loss of innocence first hand.

Seeing a strong muppet role model on Seseme Street is not a loss of innocence. It's a safe guard for their innocence. If it offers a child hope, then damn, it's doing a GOOD thing. I'm all for offering children hope.

Hope, love and understanding are the flowers watered by innocence. I would be overjoyed to see Seseme Street spread a garden of such, far and wide.

But if you don't like the messages being put forth by Seseme Street, turn the channel. A television show doesn't "TAKE" anything away from any parent. It only offers something a parent is free to decline by simply not watching (or allowing their child) to watch the show.

Me, I'd TAPE shows like Seseme Street and have them ready for any child under my care to watch instead of things like Barney. Barney... :::Shudder:::

In any case. On the topic of "appropriate" material in children's programming. I still have hope someday we'll get Deadly Force back in the Gargoyles line-up, and maybe someday an unedited run of the show.

Gargoyles also had it's own 'grown up' and 'real life' themes, but I'd let any child watch it cradle to grave. I'd talk with them about it too, if there was something that they had questions about.

Spacebabie -- I don't know if you ever saw it, but there was a TERRIFIC live action tv show which had a Downs Syndrome main character/actor. I can't remember the title off the top of my head, but the actor also did guest shots on the tv series Fame, and I do remember he was excellent. It wasn't a children's program, but it was a good show from what I remember. I know I watched it when I was young and it helped me be familiar with Downs.

Familiarity and comfort is very important to kids when dealing other people. It can mean the difference of making friend with someone, or avoiding them, or worse, picking on them.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
"Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Seseme Street?"
Mooncat
Sunday, July 14, 2002 12:21:55 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

I am sick of two things
Toast
My cat being in heat.

My mom has a Fox Mulder habit. She devours losts of sunflower seeds.

Did major cleaning in my room and rearanged a few things. It looks bigger now.

Replies

IX9<<<THe last time i measured myself I was 19 and I stood at 5'9...but nowadays I think I'm 5'11 to 6'0 i don't know i gotta find a ruler>>>Yikes. When does the average person stop growing?

Stephanie<<<You didn't forget 'cute and fuzzy'!>>>It’s Cute and fuzzy? I thought it was cute and fluffy

Jan<<<You're 5'9"?? gawsh, you would tower over me!>>>In heels I’m 5’9” I’m 5’7”<<<I'm a clutterer myself, but at least I will clean once a week so that I can start the clutter all over the next day ;) >>>I do my cleaning on the weekends.<<<However, do you really think that once it airs in Africa that it won't be introduced here in America shortly thereafter?>>>I don’t think it will ever come here. They should have a muppet with ADD or diabetes first. Something kids over here can identify with, but if they ever bring muppet with HIV over here…well all I can say still “It’s better than Barney”

Gside<<<What's the first?>>>Getting Velvet Spayed<<<Those pics weren't that bad. >>>Are you saying that Christine only likes NAKED pics of Jericho?

Leo<<<What kind of scanner is "Gourry?">>>Optic Pro 9360P flatbed.

Josh<<>>Peachstock 97<<>>Time to party.<<>>He’s soft and squishy<<<She wouldn't know, she doesn't work on it anymore.>>>I’m talking about the one SJ is supposed to be working on.<<<not everyone at Berkeley is gay>>>Just ugly?<<<Yes, growing an inch is a great reason to freak.>>>Yet my brother and father are still taller than me.<<<No, that's me.>>>do you also have shapr claws that jut out of the top of your wrists?<<<Oh, just switch to mac and get it over with.>>>Two words: ”Windows Rulz” <<<Every year I go through the same BS: >>>Californian Health Care. Almost an OxyMoron.

SJ<<<You didn't really think Bert & Ernie were just "roommates" did you?>>>Hell no. We’ve making jokes about them since the early nineties.<<<aids song>>>YOU SICK LITTLE MONKEY….that’s why I love you.

Mooncat<<<For those who would "sanitize" children programming so that children don't see examples of real life things like disease or handicapped people, they are only setting up kids to be unfamiliar and uncomfortable with ill and handicapped people.>>>True but we need a starting point, like the dubbing of certain anime. We need to get them to stop changing kill to destroy. The American version of Sesame street has done a good job at showing children the real traumatic experiences of Real Life. They dealt with birth and death, natural disasters and 9-11. They have Linda who is hearing impaired and I think a handicapped child now and then. They should eventually bring a character with HIV on the show but I would like to see a character with Down Syndrome of diabetes, yes I do have a partial reason for this. My great aunt had down syndrome. I didn’t know what that was when I first met here, and yes I was a bit freaked, my family did explain it to me. My Great Grandmother had diabetes. She explained why she couldn’t eat sugar.

Lain>>>Happy Birthday.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:14:37 AM
IP: 67.25.51.254

Jan comments: "While it has good intentions, I still believe that it is not up to a children's television show to introduce and discuss such serious issues as death... not to 2-7 year olds. It's not blinding them from the reality of life - but it's just far too much information to be giving these _young_ children. Why does Sesame Street feel that they have the right to do this?"

I think it's because "Sesame Street" has never been afraid to deal with issues like this in the past, and because they've always preferred being honest over being patronizing. And if there's any single moment in the show's long history that proves this, it's how they handled things in 1982 when actor Will Lee, who played shopkeeper Mr. Hooper, passed away. The writers didn't come up with a story of how Mr. Hooper had up and moved to Florida to retire. They didn't lie to the kids or assume they were too young to understand. Instead, they made use of Big Bird and the rest of the cast to explain that Mr. Hooper "wasn't coming back" in a way that children COULD understand. And that kind of caring honesty, I think, is why so many people who grew up watching it (including me) still admire "Sesame Street" so much. This is a children's show that isn't afraid to deal with serious topics, yet still somehow manages to entertain and educate without preaching or talking down to its viewers.

That's the true magic of "Sesame Street" as I see it. "Sesame Street" evolves. "Sesame Street" adapts. "Sesame Street" respects children and doesn't seek to seal them into a vacuum of sugary pap like "Barney" or "Teletubbies." And I hope to see "Sesame Street" survive for another 25+ years... so that when I have kids, they can watch it too.

And that's my final thoughts on the topic.
Patrick Toman - [<-- more praise for "Sesame Street "]
Sunday, July 14, 2002 09:23:00 AM
IP: 67.38.249.226

Sesame Street characters: While it has good intentions, I still believe that it is not up to a children's television show to introduce and discuss such serious issues as death... not to 2-7 year olds. It's not blinding them from the reality of life - but it's just far too much information to be giving these _young_ children. Why does Sesame Street feel that they have the right to do this? Why can't they stick to being a fun show for the children, teaching them their ABCs, colors, catchy songs, numbers, etc.
Death and terminal illnesses are not appropriate subject matters for these young children. Why not allow these children to have fun while watching their favorite characters instead of worrying about the cancer or HIV that one character might have and knowing that it's something bad? (The younger ones will have no concept of death)
Death and terminal illness is something that a parent should be discussing with their child - if it's necessary. A children's television show does not have the right to take that away from the parent - that's not the purpose of the show. It's not as if these children will never be exposed to such issues, but we're talking about 3 and 4 year olds! Do they need to be told about it at such a young age?? No. Why are people so anxious to burden these toddlers with such heavy issues?
There are programs in schools that deal with different medical issues such as cancer, epilepsy, HIV, etc. But with these programs, a counselor is available to discuss it one on one. Will Sesame Street be sending counselors out to the homes of the children viewers to assure them that they are not going to die? Plus, the children are older than most Sesame Street viewers and therefore more capable of handling the concept of a terminal illness or differing disability.
Does a 3 year old reject a playmate because he/she has cancer? nope. Is Sesame Street going to explain to this child (who has a playmate with cancer or some other terminal illness) why they are playing with Tommy one day and the next day Tommy is in the hospital and then a week later has died? No. Sesame Street gives these characters an up-beat personality - which is good - but it's also a false sense of hope.
This is not blinding children to the reality of life, this is allowing children to be children without burdening them with the harshness. This is about allowing the parents to be THE parents. Issues such as these should be on a "need to know" basis for such young children. If we were talking about 10 year olds, it would be different - but we're not. We're talking about toddlers and preschoolers.
I do understand that this is probably necessary for the children in Africa where HIV is so rampant. It's very sad that these children are placed in a world such as that. :(
But, it's not necessary for a character to be created in the USA, but it will be eventually and that's what I have a problem with. Eeghads, leave the 3 and 4 year olds alone and let them be children! Exposure comes soon enough - why rush it? It's not burying my head in the sand, it's knowing what is age appropriate and what is a need to know basis when necessary. It's not looking at this issue thru the eyes of an adult, but to understand it as receiving the information from the eyes of a 3 or 4 year old.
I agree that children need to be exposed to more serious issues because of the world we now live in - but not through a children's television show who's target audience are 3-4 year olds. It all needs to be age appropriate.
Some children in America have enough to deal with - poverty, being homeless, abusive parents, drug addicts for parents, etc. Don't they deserve an opportunity to watch their favorite Sesame Street character without the burdens of other issues? Why can't they be allowed to just enjoy themselves and not worry about if Helen HIV is going to die or not or if Charlie Cancer is going to be sick again from his chemo therapy? Let them sing the catchy songs, learn their ABCs, learn to count to 20 and learn that the sky is blue and the grass is green and not worry about such serious health issues.

That's my 3 cents worth and final discussion on the topic.
Jan
Sunday, July 14, 2002 08:40:30 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

*Warpmind surfs in on a big, fluffy, pink cloud.*
Yo, gang. Sorry I've been absent for almost a week; I've had... other things on my mind. :)

...And I ALMOST made Top Ten. Leo, I hate your guts now. ;)

Josh: *Grins* I'm an Old Skool Gamer. Lots of the classics never made the Mac, remember? };) Oh, and you're *really* gonna hate the lik I've supplied. };)

Lessee... Virus debates... The origins of such words as "Frell" and "Smeg"...

Wilek's found some more freakish toys, I see... Keep up the good work, ya creep. :)

Fire Storm: CONGRATS! May your new residence be a warm, happy place, and may your roof never leak. :)

Lain: Happy Birthday!

That's about it. Click my name for a link that's sure to annoy Mac users. }:) Later on, everyone.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, July 14, 2002 08:07:11 AM
IP: 193.217.136.215

10th
Leo
Sunday, July 14, 2002 08:03:01 AM
IP: 172.131.201.190

9th!

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, July 14, 2002 02:34:30 AM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Went to Berkeley today after doing a bunch of errands. I hate the bay area. Its poorly planned, massive wastes of space, takes too long to get anywhere, and its filled with *ssholes. (But Josh, tell us how you really feel!) Haircut, car wash, school stuff, all made more difficult because everyone else is a moron.

And I got my health insurance waiver denied again. Every year I go through the same BS: send in the waiver form, get rejected because my policy doesn't cover the same number of mental in-patient days, then have to send in a signed form that says I'll pay for it. Why can't they just continue the waiver as long as I continue the policy!? Stupid.

Zach: <>: We are not nice.

Christine: <<didn't at my wedding>>: Didn't or couldn't?

Fire Storm: <<We closed>>: congrats!

Jan: <<We are confronting them with these hard, cold realities of life when they're not prepared for it>>: Don't you think that the fact that HIV is totally rampant in South Africa is relevant? <<sometimes I question your political party affliation>>: Me too. Every time Bush speaks. <<they sold their asses to the devil>>: What does the devil give for an ass these days? <<do you really think that once it airs in Africa that it won't be introduced here in America shortly thereafter?>>: So? <<"Persistence" is just a euphemism for "serial failure.">>: If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you. ;-)

Sevarius Jr: <<You didn't really think Bert & Ernie were just "roommates" did you?>>: Oh, they're roommates alright. Roomates who !@#$.

Wilek: <>: That's hard to believe. <<Ord Tarrasque>>: Good name.

Patrick: <<If nothing else, perhaps the new muppet might help the children separate the facts from the myths and thereby make things a little less scary>>: Agreed. <<Just another Saturday night in the family-friendly TGS comment room>>: You must have us confused with some other comment room.

Leo: <<Petition to Rename 'The Two Towers' to Something Less Offensive>>: Did you read some of the "signatures"? "This is the stupidest petition ever!" "I'm wiping my ass with this petition!"

Gside: <<Woohoo>>: Such a warm welcome. <<You aren't hairy enough>>: You wouldn't know. <<Me being the sexiest man on earth would fall into the second category, I take it?>>: I'm sure there is a point during the night where you could wake me up and say "Gside is the sexiest man on earth" and I'd say "uh huh" and pass out. <<Yes, but the same pretty much applies to me>>: I see. <<They claimed it was worse>>: If it blinds, it blinds. <<only because I taught you>>: Nope. Dave Badger. <<too obvious>>: So? <<those conversations are a bit dry>>: Depends on who you talk with. <<Though you'd still whoop me>>: I've never played any warcraft game. I'm quite an accomplished broodwarrior, though. <<My name is Raven, and I'm an elitist !@#$%^&>>: Every platform has its elitists. I think Linux elitists are the worst. <<Have you looked for broadband?>>: I told my parents today that if they moved somewhere that didn't have DSL I wasn't coming home any more. I should just tell them I won't help them move.

Lain: Happy b-day.

Okay, I'm going to sleep. I expect tomorrow to be my last post for a while.

They've really got my balls in a salad shooter.
-Mr. Tweek, South Park

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
San Jose, CA, US of A
Sunday, July 14, 2002 01:57:39 AM
IP: 207.214.212.68

Top!
Fire Storm and Lady Mystic
Sunday, July 14, 2002 01:42:52 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

7th
Josh
Sunday, July 14, 2002 01:41:53 AM
IP: 207.214.213.36

Ok I don't know what just happened, but all of a sudden the thing posts without me even touching the computer so forgive the third post.

Imzadi- I guess they figured that it was alright since most people found out by reading the summery on the back of the book. They didn't have all the details of it though.

BTW I may not have seen that Spirit: Stallion of the Cimmeron but my mom hasn't stopped listening to the sound track since I got home and I have to admite...WOW.

Fire Storm- So when I get out the Army I can ask you for advice on house hunting? Congrats.
Jaden
Sunday, July 14, 2002 01:39:48 AM
IP: 172.140.91.18

Oh I've soo needed this vacation. Not only did I get to see my family BUT I ALSO GOT TO SEE MY FIRST GARGOYLE EPISODES IN OVER A YEAR!!!!!!
Jaden - [jaden1444@aol.com]
Sunday, July 14, 2002 01:26:56 AM
IP: 172.140.91.18

Fifth! Yes!
Jaden
Sunday, July 14, 2002 01:25:10 AM
IP: 172.140.91.18

TOP 10!!
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, July 14, 2002 01:05:08 AM
IP: 204.94.193.32

Oops forgot to add the link for my story. Click my name or go to http://fanfic.gargoyles-fans.org/past30.php
Mecord - [<==clicky!!!!]
Sunday, July 14, 2002 12:56:17 AM
IP: 12.255.11.48

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO LAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *sings in really bad voice* HAPPY-HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! HAPPY HAPPY-BIRTHDAY!!!! TO LAIN LAIN LAIN!!!!

And for furhter information, never ask what she is doing when you are on the phone with her O_o. No, not THAT, you sicko!
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Sunday, July 14, 2002 12:34:21 AM
IP: 24.219.165.75

3rd.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, July 14, 2002 12:33:41 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

DPH>> <<I've had two emails forged with my email address being the sender>> I just had the same thing happen to me. only the target adress was one that I've never seen before. If you figure out what happened let me know.

***** SHAMELESS STORY PLUG*****

I've finnaly completed it and rid it of enough mistakes that you just might not notice any that remain. It is kinda long but I hope you will take an interest and read it.

So here it is my latest gargoyle fan-fic

INFINITY BROKEN PART 3

***** END SHAMELESS PLUG *****

oh, and SECOND!! :)
Mecord - [mecordlein@lycos.com]
Sunday, July 14, 2002 12:29:30 AM
IP: 12.255.11.48

woohoo yay me!

twice in a row!
lain
Sunday, July 14, 2002 12:21:56 AM
IP: 65.92.91.163