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:sets up table to take bets: Who wants to place bets about whether or nor Avalon Mists gets a new issue on August 3, 2002? I hear the odds are 3 to 1 against it happenning.

Happy birthday Mara.

Gside - <Wait, you mean fixed so no one becomes pregnant because of you.> That's not what I meant. I meant was why have an abortion instead of making yourself unable to become pregnant by ANYBODY.

Christine - < I agree with you about the companies that give big to charity while paying skimpy wages or cutting employee health benefits. It always irks me when, right after our contract negotiations in which upper management goes on about how they simply can't afford to pay us any better, the same upper management very shortly thereafter sends out the United Way beg-letters with notes on how important it is that the agency look good by donating. Now, gee, maybe if they'd see fit to give us more than a 1% raise, we'd see fit to shell out for the United Way> Yea, it's about hypocrisy.

DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, July 28, 2002 01:38:17 PM
IP: 204.94.193.21

Happy birthday, Mara!

Warpmind > yep, 2019 ... better start working on those survivalist shelters now!

Book news > this was interesting; I recently heard from RAP that they're reformatting Silversilk to condense the page count and subsequently lower the price. Nothing else'll be changed as our efforts to include my pitiful little map of the Emerin have continued to meet with failure.

Christine
Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:21:49 PM
IP: 65.239.13.222

Stephen>Little Problem. The links to Avalon mists are dead.
Tribun Dragon - [joachim_henkel@gmx.net]
Luebeck, SH, Germany
Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:15:39 PM
IP: 62.214.35.178

*Warpmind wanders in, looking serious.*
Hi, folks. Time for me to post again; but first, some news.
Thursday morning, Norwegian time, my youngest cousin (19) went into labor with her first.
Around noon, we got word... Stillborn. :(
I'd appreciate a few thoughts for my cousin and her guy. Thanks.

On another note - replies.

Welcome Back to all who have returned to graze... to grace the CR. :)

Josh: And, IMO, the iMac IS Fugly, with a capital F.

Lain: Hope Gunjy's doing okay.

On flags... The Norwegian Flag is a blue cross, set horizontally, with a white outline and huge red chunks in the corners. Personally, I couldn't give a s**t about it. Maybe because Norway hasn'd been independent for more than 97 years yet, and the government's a heap of idiots... (Spent, what, about 450 years in (forced) union with Denmark and Sweden before that...) And, frankly, despite my being a barbaric European, I can actually see that much of the US population holds their flag in high regard - while Europeans had their royal houses, and, for quite a bit of time, the banners of their *local* petty lords, and Asians had such symbols as the dragons, signifying the Emperor, Americans have really only had the Flag as a unifying symbol. After all, the US flag has been the same for as long as the Union has existed (give or take a few stars), while, as Kaioto pointed out, just about no other nation has EVER pledged allegiance to their flag; it has, in general, been King and Country, Immortal Emperor, Führer, and so on, and so forth... And frankly, it seems to me that the way things stand, the USA has the higher ground. Where others go "Oh, yeah, that's our flag. It shows where we're from," Americans seem to be inclined towards "That's our flag. It shows who we ARE."
I seem to be babbling...

Christine: Just watched Armageddon, huh? You do know that there's an asteroid that's seemingly on a collission course with us, right? Gonna be a blast. }:)

Hmmm... This is freakish... I took the Sex Sign test from Mooncat's LiveJournal... It claims I'm an Aquarius. Which is incorrect; I'm a Scorpio. What's REALLY eerie is that my SO is an Aquarius... *Smirk* And this time, I think I've hit the proverbial jackpot. :)

Josh: You smell hot chicks? *Leans over and sniffs* Naw; you smell like a Berkeley-boy to me. Trust me, hot chicks smell a LOT better. };)

Happy Birthday, Mara! Don't do anything I wouldn't do! In fact, you might want to keep away from some of the things I *would* do, too. };) ...You're only 21? Weird; I've had you pegged as at least a year older than me... Õõ

Kathy: You're right. Never get on the wrong side of an annoyed ostrich. And the wrong side would in general mean the front. ;)

Well, that about ends it. Now, where in the hot flying cattle-cake is the CR wipe? It's SUNDAY already! *Vanishes*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:43:24 AM
IP: 193.217.136.167

Greetings all... got to love it when the boss tells you to go home early. especially when you've got bum feet like me... gads, so good to sit down.

Been a somewhat eventful week or so for me... Managed to finally score two days off in a row after a grueling two weeks to prepare for my store's Full Observation Review from McCopCo... We did okay, but some areas needed some work. On my days off, I left for Orlando to spend time with my friends staying there: went to Disney Quest and tried some killer games (KINGS of THE CARRABEAN, BABY!), and did some shopping and browsing in CityWalk and Downtown Disney. Have to admit, spending time with Hudson and Kellie was a blast.

Going to Orlando was also for another purpose: my Sundance finally gave up the ghost (more precisely, it's brakes did), and Kellie told me she'd sell me her spare car: a 1994 Chevy Cavalier. So, now I have to sell off the Sundance after I get it's brakes completely serviced.

Also have to go to a three-day training class for advanced shift management. Looks like if I pass it, I'll start running shifts alone, instead of with a senior manager. Wish me luck.

Glad I missed a lot of the debates in here... not that I don't have an opinion on a lot of the topics, but I just don't need extra stress right now.

MARA - Happy Birthday, Mara-chan! Hope Aaron got you something extra special for your B-Day gift! ^_^

And before I close this...

### OFFICIAL POST ###

The NEW issue of Avalon mists is slated to be released in general on August 3rd, 2002.

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr. - [scififangargoyle@yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL, USA
Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:09:07 AM
IP: 65.35.132.45

Happy Birthday Mara!!!! Don't do anything risque now ;)
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:03:43 AM
IP: 24.219.166.91

Happy Birthday Mara!! Hope your birthday wishes come true.

Best of Luck on the move Gside.

Wilek > That was actually kind of neat in a disturbing way.

SOROW > Welcome back!

Ostrich information. They are quite agressive with the beaks and feet. Never get on the wrong side of an annoyed ostrich.

kathy
Sunday, July 28, 2002 09:41:35 AM
IP: 66.32.69.162

EBay time! I will hold him and pet him and love him and feed him cheese and call him George.
Wilek
Sunday, July 28, 2002 03:38:19 AM
IP: 128.241.245.34

It's Mara's B-day? Ooo!!!! PARTY NAKED!!! Umm... I mean, Happy Birthday Shinigami *^_^* Now that you're 21, well have to take you out for virtual B-day toasts. Yay!!!

*get's the sake and plum wine*

Now I must think of appropriate b-day goodies to shower the Mara girl with *grin* Ooo... and let's not forget Birthday Spanks!

*rice wine makes Mooncat's tipsy*

>^,,^< whee!!!
Mooncat
Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:38:55 AM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Hello,

I wanted to post this three days ago, but had some trouble getting on line. It's about the ostriches.

Ostriches don't bury their heads in the sand. I know that's already been explained. But they do lay their eggs on the ground and keep the chicks in the nest. When trouble turns up, the maternal instinct kicks in and they check on their chicks before dealing with the threat. Thus giving the appearence of burying their heads. This next part comes from speculation, but I think ostriches might fight more often than flee. Considering thier height and powerful legs, any predator that doesn't catch a full grown ostrich entirely by surprise might get a serious butt-kicking. Literally.

Sorry I missed out on the timeliness issue.

Cya l8r
Taleweaver - [loremaster27@hotmail.com]
Saturday, July 27, 2002 11:03:53 PM
IP: 24.205.111.136

Been doing it mission style most of the week. It being table building, that is. Had to laminate the legs twice, and a couple other mistakes, but doesn't look too bad.

SOROW> Nice to hear the good news. And it looks like it's all been good, as a net effect.

Specebabie> <<There are no other kinds of gods>>: What about being your love god?
<<You asked for it. :::Starts to sing the Theme to Titanic:::>>: Yes, more. More. I deserve so much worse.

Imzadi> <>: So, just how do they smell different from normal chicks?

Happy birthday Mara.

Spacebabie> <<If I could I'd send her gifts from Spank Me Mama>>: There are many places that sell wares of similar quality.

Fire Storm> Good luck with your connection. And don't throw your back out.

SJ> <<Pictures. Please>>: All featuring booty, or whichever body parts are convenient.
<<And I'll need double prints>>: In case one set gets... sticky?

And this'll be the my last post for a week or so, what with the lack of connection New Hampshire. Maybe I'll get some writing done. Or maybe I'll just rewatch some burnt anime.

But before I go, I'm leaving you with some good advice on how to get out of a draft. Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie. It's large, so it's on my eden account (that's "www.eden" instead of the "remus" in my name link)

Na zdrov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:55:22 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

*sniffs*

Ohhhh, yes indeed.

SOROW: <<But I wanted to drop a little note just so you'd know I wasn't dead or anything.>>

I suddenly see my post count going up.

<<I'm still on the dance team shaking my booty>>

Pictures. Please.

<>

And if you could, make them 8 x 10 glossies. And I'll need double prints.

<<and it seemed that everytime I peeked in here someone was flaming someone else, does that still happen?>>

Uh......hmm......I....don't know what you're talking about.....

Spacebabie: <>

Make it hurt, babie.

(Gotta cover all my bases when it comes to the ladies. ;)
Sevarius "Misterio" Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Emprador de Reyes!
Saturday, July 27, 2002 09:32:37 PM
IP: 66.44.58.247

Life sucks, moving sucks, blah blah...

Last post for possibly quite a while soon. (knowing Ameritech)
Fire Storm
Saturday, July 27, 2002 06:18:05 PM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Enters with Chibi's cyarring a cake and accientaly trample on Josh.::

BEHOLD!!!!
21 years ago a Goddess was born. Her name is Mara C. Aka Shingami.

We give her cake, and wine and ice cream and If I could I'd send her gifts from Spank Me Mama.

Happy Birthday Mara~sama.
Spacebabie
Saturday, July 27, 2002 06:12:42 PM
IP: 67.24.94.48

::sniffs::

::sniffs::

I smell hot chicks.

oh, that explains it.
Josh
Saturday, July 27, 2002 04:47:01 PM
IP: 207.214.212.216

Not much has gone on typical summer weather at least one thunder storm a day.

The boy will be out of town at the end of the month.
Don't really have much else to post at the time.

Replies
SJ<<<Not as long as she continually keeps shitting on my country. >>>Americans do that all the time. You do too, unless your constipated. People can’t hold it in til the get out of the states ya know.<<<I've got the grill & the charcoal, I just need the lighter fluid.>>> I KNOW your joking, but since it’s a tasteless joke you are getting a spanking.

Jan<<<didn't you move from Texas soon after you were born?>>>To greener pastures and a lot more ocean.<<>> I know Dallas is nice and I’m sure the same can be said about Austin, San Antonio, and Houston, but there are a lot of toilets there and I had the misfortune to live in one cough:Midland:cough. I think that comic from Odessa had it right “Jessica didn’t fall down a well, she found a hole and thought it was a way out.”<<<She believes that the turtle has bad karma because the chickens won't come into her yard and her bird died.>>>Is she from California?

Mooncat<<<"I'm gay, I'm a vegetarian, I voted for Al Gore, George Strait Sucks, Hillary in 2004, and I'm here to confiscate your guns!">>>Uh they can’t be too harsh on the Veggies, since the president’s niece is one…No not the troublemaking daughter of Jeb.

Lain<<<yeah, thats pretty much right.>>> Okay now it’s clear. It’s not just Old Glory but you don’t feel patriotic to the ole Maple Leaf.

Gside<<<Ah, TGS gods. My bad, then. I was thinking of another kind of god.>>>There are no other kinds of gods.. Except THE ONE TRUE GOD <<<Yes, mistress, punish me! I am slime!>>>You asked for it. :::Starts to sing the Theme to Titanic:::

Christine>>>Thanks for the Ostrich information.

Kathy<<<The South lost.>>> Now lets see if we can tell those inbred racists to deal with it.

Wilek>>>Some people have too much imagination on their hands.

DPH<<<too many animals?>>>That is right. I think you have more cats than me.

Sorow<<<Remember me ? J>>> I was actually thinking the other day.”Whatever happened to Sorow?”<<<I'm still on the dance team shaking my booty.>>>Josh is pleased<<<and it seemed that everytime I peeked in here someone was flaming someone else, does that still happen?>>>Yeah just recently.

“And if I ever do find out who gave Daddy that copy of Lord Of The Rings, I’ll cut his balrog off.” Eleziane~Unicorn U.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:34:18 AM
IP: 67.24.94.47

mooncat>> i just re-sent the email. it is entitled "fuzzbums take 2." i hope you get it this time ;)
Lain
Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:23:30 AM
IP: 65.92.89.70

Lain,

Hey, I couldn't find your last e-message to me, so I couldn't e-mail you back. You can click my name link for my e-mail addy. Just take out the "nospam" I put on the front to foil spiders.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat - [nospamMooncatX@cox.net]
Saturday, July 27, 2002 04:05:35 AM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Hi everybody. Remember me ? :) I realize that I haven't said a word since what...December?! But I wanted to drop a little note just so you'd know I wasn't dead or anything. Far from it. What the hell have I been doing all this time you ask? Well school is going great, now that I don't have a roommate anymore (hahaha) and I'm still on the dance team shaking my booty. I'm an RA this next year so I'm really excited that I'll be getting paid, and hopefully I'll be transfered to the radio/TV/film department so I can get my career on a roll. And guess what?! I may even be getting a modeling contract this fall too! Long story, but very soon you boys may be able to put me up on your wall...I'm only half kidding ;)
It's been so long I don't even remember if I ever told you all about my life-changing discovery as to why I am the way I am. After talking to my psych professor and my parents and learning a little family history about how our whole family tree is mentally ill and no one ever told me, I can finally say that I have Severe Depression Disorder. Yeah, wow, seems to make a lot more sense for those of you who knew me when I was first here 3 years ago, doesn't it? BUT the great news is that I'm doing fantastic now. The key to all of it is when you finally realize that the problem is in your brain and that it isn't your fault or something that you did wrong, you immediately begin to get better because the guilt is no longer there. Look at me rambling now :)
Anyway, I'm home for the summer and I'll be going back on the 14th. Please don't think that I forgot about you guys, how could I? I admit that it became very hard to keep up with all the weeks worth of comments, and it seemed that everytime I peeked in here someone was flaming someone else, does that still happen? And I've also taken a lot of heart to other things too. But anyway, I'll pop in a few more times before I leave to say hi to personal messages. Lots of love.
SOROW
Saturday, July 27, 2002 12:39:13 AM
IP: 209.245.232.204

Room's been very dead, and it looks like I might have been the one to do it (as a function of size of post and lag between subsequent posts).

And to take up some more room, Farscape was quite good. Quoting Python (Black Knight), Adams (sentient elevator problems), and Billy (Macbeth). All good.

DPH> <<getting yourself fixed so you can't become pregnant>>: Well, half the population's already good for that. Wait, you mean fixed so no one becomes pregnant because of you.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, July 27, 2002 12:23:30 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Did a little site update. Added a Jericho pic. Clickie.

Rodlox > heck, the OLD Avalon Mists isn't around anymore ... by following the link on GFW, it looks like AvMists is moving but not there yet.

DPH > I agree with you about the companies that give big to charity while paying skimpy wages or cutting employee health benefits. It always irks me when, right after our contract negotiations in which upper management goes on about how they simply can't afford to pay us any better, the same upper management very shortly thereafter sends out the United Way beg-letters with notes on how important it is that the agency look good by donating. Now, gee, maybe if they'd see fit to give us more than a 1% raise, we'd see fit to shell out for the United Way ... ::grumble::

Christine - [<----- site update]
Friday, July 26, 2002 10:05:46 PM
IP: 65.239.13.101

Gabriel - Lain knows my AOL IM so you can chat with me there. However, I would like to add one thing: Anarchy is just as bad as an absolute dictatorship in terms of impact on society.

Lain - too many animals?

Green Baron - <What about them? I don't see an issue.> I do. I call said person a hypocrite. If you care enough to donate to charity, you should care enough to pay your employees decent wages.

Just when you think things are normal, here's a new one. I have been having problems keeping a stable internet connection. Today, my computer decided to go online on its own THREE TIMES.

Stephanie - <One problem that any eco-system can face is overpopulation. Choosing to have an abortion is a valid way to keep the human population from exceeding the resources available to sustain it.> Here's a thought: birth control or getting yourself fixed so you can't become pregnant.
DPH
AR, USA
Friday, July 26, 2002 09:36:01 PM
IP: 204.94.193.22

Hey Lain,

My ISP changed from Road Runner to their own corporation this month, and all my e-mail addys changed with. I'm at a friends house right now, but later tonight I'll e-mail you, kay?

Later
MC
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Friday, July 26, 2002 08:50:08 PM
IP: 68.102.11.91

mooncat>> i tried to send you an email last night.. but it was returned. do you have another email other than the one listed under your CR profile?
lain
Friday, July 26, 2002 07:39:22 PM
IP: 65.92.89.70

Jim: My understanding is that the design is not finalized. That could be one of fifty. Of course, I didn't get to see that one because they pulled it. But if its the one that circulated the macweb earlier, then it looks possible.

Personally, I'm happy with my quicksilver. Needs a 20 gig iPod to go with it, though.
Josh
Friday, July 26, 2002 06:04:55 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

Any comment, Josh? I can't be certain whether it's for real, but it looks pretty damn genuine.
Jim R. - [<--New PowerMacs?]
Friday, July 26, 2002 04:17:38 PM
IP: 65.173.83.190

EBay Treasure Time, kiddies! Meow.
Wilek - [<--Silence Of The Chickens]
Friday, July 26, 2002 02:05:19 AM
IP: 128.241.245.34

Soon I shall be off on another trek to New Hampshire, probably also stopping by Boston. Ergo, I shall be connectionless, so no posting or mp3s from me, and I'll miss a good bit of Narbonic. !$@# pay archives.

DPH> <<Have they determined that its DNA structure is different than all other caterpillars>>: I'd assume there are enough macroscopic differences that DNA analysis would be unnecessary.
<<and is incapable of breading with other caterpillars that are not in the same species?>>: As long as it can't breed with other centipedes taht are there, the rest don't matter if it can't get to them normally. Brown bears and polar bears can breed when put together, but have major geological separation, and are therefore separate species.
<<But attacking a country's flag is a waste of good ammo, that could be used to kill enemy soldiers>>: But with morale down, they don't fight as hard, so fewer of your people die...

Imzadi> <<and a center of gravity lower than my Britney Spears' pants>>: Ever play GTA3? Landstalkers fly the best when you hit them with the fire truck. We decided it was because of the high center of gravity.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, July 26, 2002 01:23:30 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

sj>> you WOULD say that, wouldnt you? when money is tight round here.. well.. kira is lucky im a vegetarian.. ;)

mooncat>> *faint* oh wait.. that would be like.. 2$ for you and your american money, wouldnt it? ;)
thanks for the offer. well see. :)
lain
Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:55:17 PM
IP: 65.92.88.112

Hey Lain,

If you are willing to keep the kitten, if your local HS or vet won't give freebie checks, I'll spot the initial vet visit. Do you have Pay Pal? I could send the money tonight. If he's healthy, aside from the vet check up/shots, two kittens don't cost any more to care for than one.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:39:28 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

lain: Extra kitten?

I've got the grill & the charcoal, I just need the lighter fluid.

Mmmm.......kitten.
Sevarius "The Other, Other White Meat" Jr. - [SJ@thefragile.com]
Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:24:18 PM
IP: 207.172.11.147

Im in need of help...

If anyone sees Green Baron online, can you tell him to IM Me?

thanks all.
Bronx
Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:23:56 PM
IP: 64.12.96.138

guess what?

i have another one.....

the landlord brought me another black kitten, thinking mine had fallen out the window again. but kira had NOT fallen out of the window..

this kitten is black, too. but with a little more white on him than kira. this one is also a male. smells like cigaretts smoke and garbage :(

i cant afford 2 cats, though. *sigh* so i guess ill have to take it to the animal shelter tomorrow. whitch is a shame, cos hes really cute. looks about the same age as kira, same area.. maybe even same litter, i dont know. his fur is a lot rougher than kiras coat, and she is yowling and hissing confusedly at him. he is just looking at her.

but awww.. hes PURRING!!!! *sigh* i need more money.... :P i wonder if the humane society would check him out for free if i said i would look after him.... *sigh* i really shouldnt..

he really is beautiful, anyways.

im gonna attempt giving him a bath.. and hes going to have to stay in a box in the other room tonight. if hes sick, i dont want kira to get it.. :(
lain
Thursday, July 25, 2002 09:55:36 PM
IP: 65.92.90.139

Well, I dunno anything about my state, except that its flag has a bear on it. So I'll leave it to people who care ::points at Crzy::

Ooh, an SUV tax!? Great! Hopefully that'll keep them out of the hands of soccer moms who can't drive. Sadly, it will still be in the realm of other people who can't drive, like trophy wives and spoiled brats (::smiles innocently::).

As someone who drives an SUV, I can't wait to trade "down" to something with better handling, better looks, positive gas mileage, and a center of gravity lower than my Britney Spears' pants.

I drive mine because it was given to me and I don't have the cash to shell out for a new car and go to school. Which makes me wonder if I really *need* a senior year ;-) As soon as I get the chance, though, I'm getting a coupe of some sort.

Need extra capacity or seats? Get a station wagon. Those Volvos are pretty slick. Need safety? Stop driving like me. Feel an unnatural need to waste the world's resources? Go to Berkeley...so you can get some sense beat into you.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to drive my Jeep.

This post brought was to you by the words hypocritical, confusing, and contradictory.
Josh
Thursday, July 25, 2002 07:49:35 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

I guess I've been absent for a few days. Well, I've been ill and sleeping a bit when not doing my regular Army stuff.

Let' see. State info. I guess I'll present Louisiana, Third World and Proud of It! :)

Statehood Date: April 30, 1812 (oue quarter comes out soon)
Bird: Eastern Brown Pelican
Flag design (one of few Southern states without a stars and bars): The design consists of the pelican group from the state seal, in white and gold, and a white ribbon bearing the state motto, "Union, Justice, and Confidence", on a field of a solid blue. Flag adopted 1912
Fact about our flag: Since the Spanish first entered what would later be the Gulf Coast, ten flags have flown over Louisiana. Though it is named for French King Louis, Spain first entered the Southernmost part of the state, but just to pop in and say hi.

Stae flower: Magnolia
Motto: Union, Justice, Confidence
Capitol: Baton Rouge
Largest city: New Orleans
Tree: Bald Cypress
State Dog: Catahoula Leopard Dog
State Insect: Honeybee
State Songs:
You are My Sunshine

Give Me Louisian
Give Me Louisiana
Written by Doralice Fontane
Composed by Dr. John Croom

Give me Louisiana,
The state where I was born
The state of snowy cotton,
The best I've ever known;
A state of sweet magnolias,
And Creole melodies
Oh give me Louisiana,
The state where I was born
Oh what sweet old memories
The mossy old oaks bring
It brings us the story of our Evangeline
A state of old tradition,
of old plantation days
Makes good old Louisiana
The sweetest of all states.

Give me Louisiana,
A state prepared to share
That good old southern custom,
Hospitality so rare;
A state of fruit and flowers,
Of sunshine and spring showers
Oh give me Louisiana,
The state where I was born
Its woodlands, Its marshes
Where humble trappers live
Its rivers, Its valleys,
A place to always give
A state where work is pleasure,
With blessings in full measure
Makes good old Louisiana
The dearest of all states.

Give me Louisiana,
Where love birds always sing
In shady lanes or pastures,
The cowbells softly ring;
The softness of the sunset
Brings peace and blissful rest
Oh give me Louisiana,
The state where I was born
The smell of sweet clover
Which blossoms everywhere
The fresh new mown hay
Where children romp and play
A state of love and laughter,
A state for all here after
Makes good old Louisiana
The grandest of all states.

We are also the 18th state and the Louisiana Purchase was the best land deal made in the US.
Insteas of counties, we have parishes, owing to our French heritage (which is a part of a more respectable and civilized France long past).
The oldest Cathedral in the US, St. Louis Cathedral (founded 1721) is in New Orleans and is the ArchBishop's seat.

American flag: I have a respect for it, but not like some Americans. Maybe all of the restrictive rules about symbols and stuff from the Protestant religions in the US leave their followers with only a flag to give homage to, plus Protestantism is entrenched in nationalism to begin with.

Gabriel> Methinks you are too purist in your fundamentalism. I see that interpratations of the First Commandment make people assume you can't have statues or any sort of honors like that. I don't buy it, as my collection of Mary statues should indicate :)

Lain> I hope Gunjack has a speedy recovery

Stephanie> Quebec join the US? That kills the unique French aspect of Louisiana.

Kaioto> I like the British monarchy. I think thsi whole move towards these Democratic Republics without any nobility is eqalitarian horseshit and trample on tradition. The fact that the Constitution forbids Americans from receiveing noble titles has always irritated me. We are not all equal, and we need to learn that.

Crazy> <<especially since my ass of a governer just signed the SUV tax!>> Well, an SUV owner, I doubt you'd liek that, but there are too many of those damn things in New Orleans when I was back there. New Orleans is below sea level!!! There is no need for four wheel drive and off road vehicles there.

Tribun> I like that old symbol on the West German flag. I wish it was still around.

I remember Hanau had soem meeting in 1848 about a democracy.

DPH> <<Good to know, but here's another question: what about the employer who pays very low wages and donates lots of money to charity?>> What about them? I don't see an issue.

Spike> Its okay for 2nd graders to gamble. I had bingo games in Kindergarden :)

Jan> I don't have so much a pride in my state as I like Louisiana for being so unique.

Stephanie D.> <<Choosing to have an abortion is a valid way to keep the human population from exceeding the resources available to sustain it.>> Genocide does the same trick with more effective results.

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Hanau
Thursday, July 25, 2002 06:43:05 PM
IP: 62.104.212.91

yes, it's been a while since I've stuck my head in here.

out of curiosity, is the new AVALON MISTS up yet?

Rodlox - [Rodlox@ hotmail.com]
Thursday, July 25, 2002 05:37:13 PM
IP: 68.55.116.174

I'm tired. Been that way all day. I think I need to lapse into a nice coma for a while...

Semi - Replies

Jen > Yeah, true, but even wasps get tired of swarming if they're poked enough times. Troll-like behavior whatever the source should just be ignored.

Confederate Flag > One the one hand, an enduring symbol that it's okay to not only question the government but do something about it.

On the other hand. The South lost.

The people I have trouble with are the ones that can't accept that fact and move on. Truly, there are still people here that haven't gotten the news that the war is over.

New bugs? Neat. Just shows you nature always has something up its sleeve.

I think I need to mainline caffeine.
kathy
Thursday, July 25, 2002 05:34:03 PM
IP: 66.32.69.162

DPH> I can elaborate further on Romans 13 if you would like to do so over IM.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Thursday, July 25, 2002 05:05:24 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Welcome back, JaKal.

QUÉBEC FLAG
Québec's flag shows its roots as a colony of France. The white cross on a blue background is from an ancient military banner that French knights carried as far back as the twelfth century. The four fleurs-de-lis (one in each corner) are also symbolic of France.
Provincial Motto (It is, in fact, a revolutionary poem):
Je me souviens que je suis né sous la fleur britanique,
Et que je grandisse sous la fleurs-de-lis.
Translation:
I remember that I was born beneath the British Rose,
And that I was raised by the French Lily.

CANADIAN FLAG a.k.a The Maple Leaf
Kai mentioned that he did not think that it is possible for people whose nation's flag is 'young' to understand the fervour over the American flag. The Maple Leaf was designated Canada's Flag on December 31, 1964; that makes it 38 years young. Canadians fought under the British Union Jack during both World Wars (though most individuals sewed maple leaf patches onto their uniforms). Prime Minister Lester Bowles (Mike) Pearson (1963 - 68) (past president of the United Nations General Assembly, Nobel Peace Prize winner) led the push for Canada to have it's own flag.
White with red borders (Canada's official colours are red and white) Canada's flag also has an eleven-point maple leaf in the center (hence the name). It is the only flag like it in the world.
Canadians have been wearing maple leaf patches and decorating their homes with maple leaves for special occasions (though that fad has died down somewhat) since the 1800s. My briefcase has a The Maple Leaf (flag) embroidered on it, and I sewed a Canada Flag patch on my bookbag. I would be far more upset if you burned down a maple tree than if you burned my country's flag.

THE INTERNATIONAL CIVIL AVIATION ORGANIZATION'S FLAG
On a light blue background it displays the white United Nations symbol (globe circled by olive branches) bordered by white pilot's wings. Just thought I would mention this, since I think I am the only one here who works for the UN.

Please note that I place my province, my country, and my Organization nowhere near God-worshiping status.

lain: *breathes a big sigh of relief that Gunjack is O.K.* Have I ever mentioned that I believe that cars are evil? *checks her posts* Oh, so I have. Last weekend I took an 8 km bike-ride and was nearly hit 3 times by cars (run off the sidewalk and onto the grass by one, while walking my bike across the street during a 'walk' sign, and while crossing an highway overpass; crazy Québec drivers).

DPH: "tree huggers easily being pro-choice and seeing no contradiction" I am one of said 'tree huggers'. One problem that any eco-system can face is overpopulation. Choosing to have an abortion is a valid way to keep the human population from exceeding the resources available to sustain it.
"how did you get your post so narrow? " I was using Vim 3.0 (or some later edition) to edit my post; I had not thought that it would actually post narrow. Vim is a basic text editor that runs on Linux (or RedHat or Gnome or KDE, I can not remember what version) and has this thing where the length of line is set by characters and not by inches. Or something like that; I am a bureaucrat, not an engineer.
"attacking a country's flag is a waste of good ammo, that could be used to kill enemy soldiers" How practical. By the way, 'that' clauses do not require a comma.

Au revoir.
Stephanie D - [SCurtin@icao.int]
Montréal, Québec, Canada
Thursday, July 25, 2002 04:53:37 PM
IP: 192.206.28.62

Rather than waste precious CR post, I'll just provide a link to information about Arkansas.

Gabriel - The bible also commands us to be subject to governing authorities since they are ordained by God to punish evil-doers so Anarchy isn't Christian either.

Patrick - A new species of caterpillar? Have they determined that its DNA structure is different than all other caterpillars and is incapable of breading with other caterpillars that are not in the same species?

kathy - <Only in this instance the governing legislature wasn't fighting 'godless commies', but the 'dire threat of desegregation'. That flag - the confederate stars and bars coupled with the Georgia state seal was a huge shout out to anybody who would listen that Georgia wasn't going to change its ways for anybody. Course it's made the state look foolish and backwards (not to mention racist) to anybody who doesn't understand the peculiar mindset down here - but that's a whole 'nother fish to fry.> I view the Confederate flag as something mentioned in the Bible. There was a whole debate about eating meat offered to idols. The answer was eating the meat was ok, but it isn't worth it if upsets your Christian brother. In the same manner, I view the Confederate flag. To me, it stands for rebellion against government and makes me concerned to see that flag.

Mooncat - But attacking a country's flag is a waste of good ammo, that could be used to kill enemy soldiers.

Lurker - get a name because lurkers are invisible in the CR.

DPH - [<--click for information on Arkansas]
AR, USA
Thursday, July 25, 2002 04:38:55 PM
IP: 204.94.193.57

Holy craptacular! Not haveing a pc at home makes it really hard to keep up with you guys! don't feel stupid putting in my two bits every now and then.
Azrele
Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:22:45 AM
IP: 198.96.80.15

PAt> In the New Testament, Christ tells us the greatets commandments are to love your God above all else, the second is to love your neighbour as you love yourself. They are specifically said to be the Greatst Commandments since everything else falls into place after these are followed. Plus, I never called to disrepect those in authorty; they are our neighbours and deserve the full love that we show ourselves.

Service and allegience comes out of Luke 4 and Matthew.....can't remember, but it is where Christ is being tempted. In it, the devil tells Christ that he can give him power over the kingdomes of the world, for the power over them has been given to him if only he will prostrate himself before the devil (a requiremtn I might add, to gain that power). However, Christ does not tell him, "haha, you liar, you weren't given power over the kingdomes of the earth." He rebukes the devil, saying "You shall worship the Lord your God and you shall serve him, only him."

This stays in line with Christ telling us we can only serve one master, since we will lvoe one and hate the other

Pledging allegeince to anything is acknowledging another master that you will serve outside of God and Christ. It is idolatrous since your acknowledging the flag as an entity that deserves your serivice other than God; dying to keep the flag from hitting the ground is attributing the cloth (which can easily be replaced) as something that is more important than human life, it's making it god-like. The only thing more important than human life is God, not a flag.

Anyways, I said I would not comment on this topic any more and I ate my own words. My yahoo! i.d. is somewhere in an earlier post if you want to talk more on it; and my AIM is marduk81.

Also, I linked a web-site where Christian theologians, whom I found to view dicipleship the same way I do, can be read on-live for free. Just click and go to the library. I particularly like Jacquees Ellul because he doesn't claim to have found the truth and acknowledges it as such. The web-site itself is kinda hokey, but ti has a large resource.

PEACE!
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:18:47 AM
IP: 129.120.35.51

*In*

This temp page with the Mascot pics also went up yesterday afternoon. the link was posted in the older line of posting in the MGC, but I am not sure how many people saw it.

www.randominformation.com/gargpics.htm

*Out*
Lynati
Thursday, July 25, 2002 09:51:16 AM
IP: 141.156.182.30

On wildlife...

I think I saw once that ostriches will also sometimes sleep with their heads resting on the ground, so that could also be a source of the mistaken "burying their heads in the sand" idea.

Also, click my name for an interesting article. Scientists have discovered a new species of bug... hiding right in the middle of Central Park, NYC no less. Makes you wonder what could still be lurking undiscovered in less populous areas, like the African jungle or the Himilayan mountains.
On God and the flag...

In the commandments given to Moses, God decreed "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." He did NOT say "Thou shalt not be loyal to any power except me." So I'm not quite getting how pledging one's loyalty to one's country (such as by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance) violates this commandment. One of the other commandments says "Honor thy father and mother," which would seem to indicate that God is not demanding that He be the one and ONLY power that people should respect... He is just saying that he is Number One on the heirarchy. God, country, parents... you can be reverant for all of them at the same time without violating the Ten Commandments so long as you keep God first.

And now I'm outta time. More comments later... maybe.

:: scurries off ::
Patrick Toman
Thursday, July 25, 2002 07:24:41 AM
IP: 67.38.243.8

***** Warning! Shameless Plug *****

Elisa has had a disturbing dream. It spurs her to have a little chat with Goliath about their future. It doesn't go well. find out what happenes in...

BROOKLYN'S QUEST

Episode 2: Yearnings

***** End Shameless Plug *****
Mecord - [mecordlein@lycos.com]
Thursday, July 25, 2002 01:39:40 AM
IP: 12.255.11.48

*Gathering Mascott Update*

There was some recent issues as to what the the two Mascotts look like. Lynati had given a very detailed description, but a picture is wortha thousand words. See them, make your opinions and to all artist out ther feel free to recreate them, they are mascotts after all. And with that said I ask you all to check it out, more will be added as time goes.

*END*
Revel - [<<---------Click!!]
the bayou city, tx
Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:25:47 AM
IP: 172.170.157.80

I'd have to go look up all the Washington state stuff and I'm too lazy, so I'm not gonna ; )

Ostriches > I heard somewhere that while they don't actually bury their heads, they do often _lower_ their heads to ground level (the theory I heard was that they're listening for thudding vibrations, like in the old Western movies when they'd be checking for pursuit). People seeing this would think, as they were only seeing it from a distance, that the ostriches were burying their heads, and thus the notion that they had an "if I can't see it, it can't see me" philosophy. Just tossing out that unverified factoid.

Got to go put Becca to bed. Ciao!
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:05:43 AM
IP: 65.239.62.245

Jan> Yeah, she's wrong about a lot of things. But you know what, I happend to have formed my own opinions before I met Lain. I don't agree with Lain on everything, religion would be an example.

And yes, I think the Jehova's Witness got it right on that one, and the Mennonites, and the Rastafaris. The Bible itself says that the kingdomes of the earth were given to the devil, the devil tells this to Christ (Luke 4 for referance) and Christ rejects the political power because to do so would require allegience to the devil, both politically and spiritually. So yeah, I agree with the Jehovas on that one. Paul says authorities are instituted by God; they don't follow God, however, as Stalin and Hitler prove amply.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:42:46 PM
IP: 24.219.165.75

Mecord> <<If so they sent me an email and for some reason I couldn't read it>>: That'd be Lexy, but it might be a virus with a fake sender address.

Jan> <<He was, however, the original before they hit the TV/movie screen>>: He was also related.
<<After Shemp came Curly Joe and then the last of the 3rd stooge was Joe. (which I never cared for)>>: No, Shemp, then Joe Besser, then Curly Joe.

Lain> <<um.. they arent? theres nothing special about the paper and ink. its whats WRITTEN on the paper thats important - just like whats symbolized in a flag. the actual paper (or flag or whatever) is completely unimportant>>: Back to my papers. Let's see you see both in a gargage pile. One is definitely more likely to make you say, "It's perfectly fine, shme that they're throwing out." Different amounts of thought and history are put into different objects.
<<bird: loon>>:

Spacebabie> <<How dare you try to usurp the powers of the TGS GODs>>: Ah, TGS gods. My bad, then. I was thinking of another kind of god.
<<On your Knees and beg for Mercy!>>: Yes, mistress, punish me! I am slime!
<<Yeah like now>>: Absolutely.
<<Muffy Buffy and Snuffy sometimes called the Norns sometimes the Fates>>: They are a three, but not The Three.

JLA> <<You are my hero!>>: Thank you. So should I start wearing tights now? Wait, what do I mean start wearing?

Gabriel> << So you're going to swear allegience to the complete works of shakespear and die to keep it form hitting the ground?>>: Didn't say that. Didn't say I would die for the American flag either. But I'm lazy and a bit of a coward. Just trying to show that one element of a materials defined subset can be more important than another.

Ooh, just remembered a quote: "A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally there's no difference. Life and death are abstracts. Why should I be concerned?" -Jon Osterman

Leo> <>: Been reading the Life of Riley?

Niamhgold> <<Live the way of the NH old-fart-Republican-...>>: Bitter much? And watch it, my grandparents are old New Hampshire Republicans.

I once heard that the concept for the Cantina music was what would be the result of aliens finding Benny Goodman sheet music. The new mp3 is Jersey Bounce by Benny Goodman.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:38:26 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

jackal>> you.. are wierd.. but i think we knew that already ;)

YAAAAAAAY WHITBOURNE!!!!!!! get playin that tin whistle, ya hear? ;)

jan>> <<no, I read all that you had to say and I still stand by my opinion>> okay. <<You know, lain just *might* be wrong (well she is wrong) and it's ok to disagree with her. *pat pat*>> flamebait much?
:P

crzy>> <<Im starting to think it's all a ploy to get
attention>> sure, you can think whatever you want, its no skin off my nose ;)

sj>> <<Not as long as she continually keeps shitting on my country>> did you ever get that email i sent? this is getting tedious.. :P

spacebabie>> <<It’s not the cloth but what it represents>> shall i say again.. i get that part.. *sigh* whats the point anymore? :P <<So if B. Liddy burned the Canadian flag you would feel nothing>> yeah, thats pretty much right. if i was standing close enough, id probably feel warm but..

gabe>> <<It's obvious that this topic was purposefully brought back up again to start a fight after it had been dead for awhile>> wow.. ya THINK?? :P <> lose friends? LOSE friends?? LMAO!! oh, you and your sense of humour :P

lain
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:34:31 PM
IP: 65.92.90.235

guess who's back. back again. jackal's back. tell a friend... hehe

AMERICA!!! LoL
the sight of the american flag inspires hate and a motivation to kill in sumone ppl. and sumthing worth dying for in the eyes of others, we all know this.

but right now, as a citizen of this country, i'd drive up to DC, burn the flag and throw on the lawn of the white house. but since that'll put multiple charges on me i won't be doing that, and neither should anyone else (disclaimer) hehe

why u ask? ok i'll tell ya. b/c this country openly spoke out against Israel for killing a high ranking leader of hamas, just b/c sum innocent ppl died. i'm not bein cruel, it's just that this entire world is at war and in war tyme- innocent ppl die. it's like cutting off a limb to save the body.

how dare this country speak out against anyone that has "collateral damage". what about the 400 hundred ppl us troops killed in afghanistan- in a wedding. A WEDDING. and other afghan natives who had nothing to do with the taliban or anyone, they just wanted to live their lives. and this country has the balls to speak out against Israel?!?!!

the united states government has murdered ppl across the globe including it's own citizens. "For the greater good".
and it amazes me that sum ppl are clueless as to why there's organizations that wanna put us to an end. over 2,800 innocent ppl lost their lives for the sins of their government.

but mess with our country and we WILL come after you. even if it means pissing off the rest of the world. cause see... every government in the world is screwed up, even urs. but doesn ur government have the title of "The Great Satan"?!? LoL
i am what america is all about. a living contradiction. Long Live americA, Israel.. and oh yeah... India! HAHAHAHAHAA

I love america!!!
JacKaL
plo, eu, nato hehe
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 07:30:12 PM
IP: 205.188.208.9

Jan <<There are 2 important things to learn in life - 1. Never dish America and 2. Never dish Texas. Remember these and you will live a peaceful life. :P>>

eh? We can't gossip about the US or TX? Hundreds of thousands of Comedians and Late Night TV hosts will be out of work over this.

If we can't dish, can we at least plate, cup, or silverware it?

Joke of the Day - Survivor Texas Style

Due to the popularity of the Survivor shows, Texas is planning to do its own, entitled Survivor - Texas Style. The contestants will start in Dallas, travel to Waco, Austin, San Antonio, over to Houston and down to Brownsville. They will then proceed up to Del Rio, on to El Paso, then to Midland, Odessa, Lubbock and Amarillo. From there, they'll proceed to Abilene, Ft. Worth and finally back to Dallas.

Each will be driving a pink Volvo with a bumper sticker that reads, "I'm gay, I'm a vegetarian, I voted for Al Gore, George Strait Sucks, Hillary in 2004, and I'm here to confiscate your guns!" The first one to make it back to Dallas alive wins.

*****

just passing through on a work break...
Mooncat
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 06:36:32 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Just a Canadian entry to promote international unity. :-)

PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND...joined Canada in 1873.
PROVINCIAL MOTTO: "Parva sub ingenti" - "The small under protection of the great", referring to our tiny province's location under the umbrella of Great Britain/Canada
PROVINCIAL BIRD: The blue jay, Cyanocitta cristata.
PROVINCIAL FLOWER: The lady's slipper.
PROVINCIAL TREE: The red oak, Querces rubra
The best part, though, is that the Mi'kmawq creation myth for our Island claims that the Great Spirit set aside Prince Edward Island as his private summer residence before feeling guilty about keeping such a beautiful place for himself and sharing it with his people. We're the summer home of the gods. :-)

Fair Island of the sea,
We raise our song to thee,
The bright and blest;
Loyally now we stand
As brothers, hand in hand,
And sing God save the land
We love the best.

Upon our princely Isle
May kindest fortune smile
In coming years;
Peace and prosperity
In all her borders be,
From every evil free,
And weakling fears.

Prince Edward Isle, to thee
Our hearts shall faithful be
Where'er we dwell;
Forever may we stand
As brothers, hand in hand,
And sing God save the land
We love so well.

I could go on about Newfoundland, but I don't actually live there, so it wouldn't be right. Suffice it to say that any province where a major geological feature is the Avalon Peninsula should be near and dear to the hearts of every Gargoyles fan.
Dylan Blacquiere - [whitbourne@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 06:33:22 PM
IP: 137.94.11.222

Lain> no, I read all that you had to say and I still stand by my opinion. There are 2 important things to learn in life - 1. Never dish America and 2. Never dish Texas. Remember these and you will live a peaceful life. :P

Jennifer> I do believe you have her figured out! *L*

Kai> well said... again. :)

Josh> moi?? *L* shoo! you're not here!

Leo> yeppers! we sang Texas Our Texas at least once a week during opening ceremonies. We traded off with other patriotic songs. Texas Our Texas was sang on Thursdays. I love that song :)

Spacebabie> but didn't you move from Texas soon after you were born? Besides, you were born in Irving. ;) You still have that proud Texas heritage, though and someday I hope that you come to realize how wonderfully fulfilling that can be. ;) *giggles*

Mecord> *nods* I don't always agree with Texas politics, but as a whole, it's not too bad these days. Of course, it no longer effects me as much (since I've moved to MO). It was horrible when queen Ann was in power, but vastly improved once President Bush became the govenor. =)
Texas is still one of the few states that does not have a state income tax. :)

Gabe> *blinks* It is totally asinine that you could even compare saying the pledge or having respect for our flag as "idol worshipping". Have you been reading the Jehovah Witness's brochures again? You know, lain just *might* be wrong (well she is wrong) and it's ok to disagree with her. *pat pat*

SJ> amen, brother!

I won't list Texas' or Missouri's stats since Todd and Spike already covered them =)

Stupid story of the day:

Just as I was getting ready to leave for some testing at the hospital, this car pulls up out front. The car is covered with stickers - the kind you get out of a machine... and a few bumper stickers that say, "Beam Me Up, Jesus" and "Go Bra-less, it helps pull the wrinkles out of your face". The gal that gets out is barefooted, wearing a bathing suit top, bikini bottoms and a jean skirt that is opened in the front like this: ^ (upside down v-shaped)
She comes to my window and proceeds to tell me that she has a turtle in her garden and how she has trouble with her neighbors.... She believes that the turtle has bad karma because the chickens won't come into her yard and her bird died. *blinks* ummmm ok. She keeps going on and on about the turtle's bad karma and troublesome neighbors.... that she's afraid to go back to her house because of the turtle's bad karma, etc. I'm biting my thumb nail in order to keep a straight face. Kathy and Lt. Dana are behind me asking me questions about what this lady is saying and I'm giving them hand signals behind my back with my other hand to get them to be quiet. I knew that if I turned to them, I would loose all composure. I begin telling her that if you put Carmax on something that has a bad karma, it would release the bad and replace it with good karma... and that's where the name "Carmax" comes from... that I had seen that on the Learning Channel. She believed me! (I was later told by Kathy and Dana that if they had been stupid, they would have believed me too - I was very convincing). I then suggested that she call a vet (I have a vet friend who likes to play practical jokes on me & I was going to get him back ;)) But, she said she couldn't afford a vet. So, I'm thinking of which officer I was mad at or needed to get back at... only one officer was available and I like him, so I took it to the sheriff. *snickers* He called the one available officer and told him to come take a report. *L* Shane did not know this gal, so he had no idea of how looney she is.
Everyone at the office decided that *I* attract these kind of people. *L* I swear they've been talking to my mom again! ;)
This is the same gal who last year led sheriff on a low-speed chase.... 10-15 mph. She would stop, he'd stop and get out, walk up to her car and she'd leave... the radio transmission had us rolling in the floors. "This is 50 in pursuit of suspect" "County, this is 50 reaching top speed of 15 mph" "county, this is 50 - suspect has stopped her vehicle" -a few minutes of silence- "county, this is 50 once again in pursuit of suspect, top speed of 12 mph"
It went on like this for about 45 minutes. They were trying to grab her to take her for a psych evaluation.
I laughed so hard my head hurt!

I took Wacky Zachy to his first Republican Club Mtg last night. He kept our side of the room entertained. ;) He's into blowing raspberries now and if I cue him, "Zachy, democrat" he would stick his tongue out and blow/spit. *LOL*
He's such a good little Republican baby *proud smile*

Interesting fact of the day:
In a study of 200,000 ostriches over a period of 80 years no one reported a single case where an ostrich buried its head in the sand.

Jan
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 06:09:53 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

HAPPY PIONEER DAY!!!!

Okay since probably none of you have really heard of this before I’ll give a brief history. Since I can’t give a history without touching on some of the religious aspects of it, I apologize in advance. Forcefully driven from their home in Nauvoo, Illinois, and their leader and Prophet, Joseph Smith Jr. murdered, the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, commonly referred to as Mormons, took shelter in a place they called Winter Quarters. Under the leadership of Joseph Smith’s successor, Brigham Young, the Mormons organized an exodus across the plains. The first wagon train was led by Brigham Young himself in the spring of 1847. It was July 24 of that same year when the wagon train first overlooked the Salt Lake Valley and Brigham Young proclaimed, “This is the place.” But the story didn’t end there. Pioneers continued to journey across the plains for years afterward. Most of these were Mormons headed to Salt Lake valley, but there was also a movement to California as the gold rush hit full swing. Those who couldn’t afford the wagons and cattle used handcarts. They always moved in groups and were almost never attacked by roving Indians. Hundreds and hundreds of pioneers died on the trek, some from exhaustion, some from the heat, some from the cold. Disease was a constant battle. It was because of their hardship and dedication that we celebrate the 24th of July. So there you go.

Wow, I didn’t think I’d get such a reaction. Since I started it I should Probably list my state info as well.

State Flage: The Utah seal on a blue field. The seal is a Bald Eagle holding six arrows. There are two American Flags draped under the eagle’s wings. Between the flags is a behive and sego lilies. It has the word “Industry” over the beehive. The dates 1847 and 1896 are at the bottom of the seal. 1847 when the state was settled and 1896 when Utah was made a state.
State Bird: California Seagull
State Emblem: Beehive
State Fish: Bonneville Cutthroat Trout
State Animal: Rocky Mountain Elk
State Tree: Blue Spruce
Hehe, okay I just looked the rest up because I wasn’t sure if I could remember them. Can you believe we have a State Cooking Pot? It’s the Dutch Oven of course. That’s the pioneer preferred method of cooking. Anyway, here’s the rest of the info.
State Folk Dance - Square Dance
State Fossil – Allosaurus
State Fruit - Cherry
State Gem – Topaz
State Grass - Indian Rice Grass
State Insect - Honey Bee
State Mineral - Copper
State Motto - "Industry"
State Rock - Coal
State Song - "Utah, We Love Thee" by Evan Stephen
State Star – Dubhe, one of the brightest stars of the Big Dipper.
State Tartan - Utah State Tartan, red, white, and blue. It has a red and blue woven checkered field with smaller thin white stripes
State Tree - Blue Spruce
State Vegetable - Spanish Sweet Onion and Sugar Beet

Here’s the site that has the info http://www.utah.gov/about/symbols.html

Anyway, thanks for everyone who posted their state info.

Jan>> <putting Lain's perception into perspective> I’ve just been on Lain’s side of similar arguments before. <the pride a Texan has in their state> Yeah, you Texan’s probably have everyone beat in the state pride area. I love my state but I don’t always like its policies, especially concerning schools and kids, but that probably stems from the lopsided politics here.

Okay, that’s all from me for now. Tomorrow I’ll probably have another story up.

later

Mecord - [mecordlein@lycos.com]
Logan, Utah, USA
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 04:38:40 PM
IP: 12.255.11.48

**Niamhgold enters briefly**

And my input on the flag stuff:

New Hampshire-
The Granite State
-Motto: "Live Free or Die!" (translation--"Live the way of the NH old-fart-Republican-with-no-abortion-rights,-no-gay-rights,-no-equal-compensation-for-women,-but-plenty-of-discrimination-against-non-white-races-and-no-school-or-arts-funding or Die!")
-Flag: The state seal with the frigate "Raleigh" on a field of blue with laurel leaves and nine stars.
-State Emblem: Old Man in the Mountain (oh and joyously just twenty minutes from my house)
-State amphibian: The red-spotted newt, yeah!
-State flower: Pink Ladyslipper. (I got into trouble when I picked one in fifth grade. It's illegal).
-State Sport: Skiing. Also twenty minutes from my house, if you go the long way.
-State Gem: Smokey quartz.
-State Insect: Ladybug. *Not* the Jonathan Brandis kind.
-State Bird: The purple finch
-State Tree: The white birch

Maryland State Info:
-State Flag: The arms of the Calvert and Crossland families
-State Song: "Maryland, My Maryland"
-State Drink: Milk. Does a body good, that's why.
-Insect: The Checkerspot Butterfly!
-Bird: The Baltimore Oriole. Go Orioles!
-Sport: (and my personal favorite)...JOUSTING!

Jaden: <How was California?> It's pretty nice out here. Warm, dry...and if I'm not too careful, I'll get sunburned again. Next time I'm out here, my car comes with ;) Thanks for asking!

That's all folks
Niamhgold
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 04:28:02 PM
IP: 66.87.90.139

VERMONT:

State Flag: Blue with the Coat of Arms on it.

Coat of arms: It shows a large pine tree, three sheaves of grain, and a cow. Mountains rise in the background.

State seal: adopted in 1779, a pine tree with 14 branches represents the 13 original states and Vermont. A row of wooded hills cuts across the center. Wavy lines at the top and bottom represent sky and water. Sheaves of grain and a cow symbolize agriculture.

State bird: Hermit Thrush
State flower: Red Clover
State Tree: What do you think? The sugar maple!
Capital: Montpelier
Largest city: Burlington

My Hometown: Barre, also known as the "Granite city of the world".. . . . . coincidently this city is not in New Hampshire, known as the Granite state.

There's a lot more, but whoever pays attention to EVERY single state thing around here? Not the locals THAT's for sure. I'm pretty sure that the state monster is Champ. . . . . but that's about it.

So. . . . anyone here ever have the urge to draw Goliath after he lets himself go and develops a beer belly? That would be very strange. Especially if he was drunk at the same time. I think I had a dream about this last night and now I want to draw it O.o this is all the fault of staying up until 4 in the morning reading Dylan's stories. *twitch*

I guess no one here goes to Denison University in Ohio huh? Oh well at least I know some Beast Wars fans. And maybe if I'm LUCKy there will be a bot con near there some day in the next four years, or heaven help me. . . . Gargcon! . . . . . umm . . . . right

Sarge Abernathy
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 01:31:13 PM
IP: 152.163.189.68

My turn to play.

Virginia:

Nickname: the Old Dominion
Flag: Blue field with state seal.
Seal: depiction of goddes of "Virtue" defeating "Tyranny", includes Motto: "Sic Semper Tyrannis" - thus always to tyrants (John Wilkes Booth quoted the state motto just after he assasinated Lincoln)
Flower/Tree: Dogwood
ANIMALS
Bird: Cardinal (why do so many states use the Cardinal or Mockingbird :P)
Dog: American Foxhound
Fish: brook trout
Shell: oyster
Insect: tiger swallowtail butterfly
MISC
Fossil: Scallop
Boat: Chesapeake Deadrise
Song: was "Carry Me back to Old Virginny" but decomissioned in 1998 because of the use of the word "darke'ys." There is an ongoing competition for a new state song. (some of the entries are terrible)

Replies:

CrzyDemona:<<California is the 5th largest economy in the world>> yeah, because Hollywood would like the rest of the world to believe that all Americans live in 1 of 4 cities: New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles. :P (that may not have been worded right)

<<confederate flag>> also known as the "Stars and Bars" I have seen it flown *above* the "stars and stripes" in a certain town accross the York River. Of course you'll also see a a rusty truck in the driveway with a bumper sticker that reads "the war isn't over"

Spacebabie:<<Song: "Swanne River">> Like Virginia's state song, it has a "plantation" theme. But "Swanee River" was written by the great Stephen Foster, so the powers thet be were willing to make a compromise and simply change the offending word rather than nix the entire song. (no offence is ipmlied there)<<Mockingbird>> interesting that both your home states have the same state bird :-)<<Dem crazy Canadians and the way they mangle the English language>> always spelling their "or" words with "our" like the Brits. I wonder if the say "Al-u-min-i-um" :P(No offence to any Canadians. My entire maternal ancestery is french canadian)

Jan<<we also said the pledge to the state flag of Texas>>I spend my elementary and middle school years in Texas. I remember in 4th grade singing "Texas, our Texas" :)

Leo - [<-Detailed State Info]
Yorktown, VA
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 01:30:13 PM
IP: 172.162.249.225

Symbols and Icons:

What makes two $100.00 bills worth more than 2 $5.00 bills? Symbolism, association, expectation, and consensus .

Paper currency has no intrinsic value. It gets its value from the members of society assigning value to it. It is valuable because people are willing to let something that is innatively worthless represent material goods and services.

And that is why a dollar is just another piece of paper, but is inherently more valuable than a similar piece of paper that is not accepted currency (like Monopoly money).

In the same respect, your national flag can be more valuable than a similar piece of fabric you might make curtains out of.

The reason why people understand currency's symbolic value, but not that of a flag:

Currency has been proven over my lifetime to be a means by which I can attain personal gratification.

The US Flag has been proven over my lifetime to provide no means by which I can attain personal gratification.

Some people have a _very_ difficult time aknowledging value outside of cause-effect gratification. Our modern media doesn't recognize it anymore, certainly. Modern Western society has become in a large part a society that knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.

Then, there are certainly plenty of people who don't have the same reasons to know about or care about the symbols of another group. Should non-Americans feel the same way about the American Flag as Americans do? I don't think so. Should people who don't feel like their country stands for anything they believe in particularly strongly feel the same way about their flag as we do about ours? Probably not.

As for idol-worship. I'm sorry, but no one I know worships the US Flag. We'll rever it because we believe in the ideals we see in it, but it isn't God.

In the same regard, soldiers salute officers, and normal citizens get quite upset if you vandalize their town. Soldiers don't worship officers. Citizens don't worship their town.

If anything flirts with idol-worship, Money, Television, Sex, Drugs, and self-indulgence are MUCH higher up on the list of "False gods for the New Millenium."
kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 01:25:17 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Well, if you see "The People vs. Larry Flynt" then the flag really isn't any different from underwear.

Jan: I saw that cough.

Kai: Couldn't agree with you more about the old iBooks. Or the Titaniums 8-)
Josh
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:26:52 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

Jen> << Lain is>>

I think it was Kaioto who wanted to, to use your words, "brag" about how much he loves his flag. Lain equated it to worship. Then it blew up from there.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:13:28 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Gsdie> << Shakespeare's Complete Works>>

So you're going to swear allegience to the complete works of shakespear and die to keep it form hitting the ground? O_o. Yeah, it's great, but I wouldn't die nor kill for it.

Spacebabie> Yeah, no one bows down to it, but people do pledge allegience to it. That I have a problem with as a Christian. Don't matter to me if Atheists do it since they have no singular duty to God; but Christians do, and it was demanded that allegeince and worship be to Him and Him only, not to ideals made by man. We are told to follow the laws of the land so long as they are not contrary to His will, that is what states are supposed to get from us, not blind allegience to a false idol.

It's obvious that this topic was purposefully brought back up again to start a fight after it had been dead for awhile; so I suggest we all shut-up about it. I don't want to lose any friends over this dumb topic, so that's my last word on it.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:09:20 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

California State facts! (and this isnt even all of them!)

State Animal: California Grizzly Bear
State Bird: California Quail
State Colors: Blue and Gold
State Dance: West Coast Swing
State Fish: Golden Trout
State Flag: Bear Flag (click link below)
State Flower: California Poppy (this is my favorite!!)
State Fossil: Sabre-tooth Cat (HA! Nevada ain't the only one! Adopted in 1973)
State Insect: California Dogface Butterfly
State Marine Fish: Garibaldi
State Marine Mammal: California Gray Whale (GO BIG!)
State Mineral: Gold (thar's GOLD in them thar hills!)
State Motto: Eureka! (which means "I have found it!" In 1957, attempts were made to establish "In God We Trust" as the state motto, but "Eureka" was made the official state motto in 1963.)
State Nickname: Golden State
State Prehistoric Artifact: Chipped Stone Bear
State Reptile: Desert Tortoise
State Seal: Great Seal of California
State Soil: San Joaquin Soil (Are they SERIOUS??)
State Song: I Love You California
State Tree: California Redwood

Ah yes... our tax dollars at work! Yes, I have great pride in my state. I have lived all over the US. But this is my home. California is the 5th largest economy in the world!

Just to show you how that adds up:

1. USA
2. Japan
3. Germany
4. France
(California)
5. Italy
6. UK
7. China
8. Canada

GSide - WELL WORDED!!! <<Lain> <<why is that particular conglomeration of cloth any different or more special than, say, your underwear?>>: Why is the conglomeration of ink and dead wood in the form of Shakespeare's Complete Works (or whoever you think is a great author) any diferent or more special than, say, designer paper towels? Different conglomerations of the same materials can be much more important than others.>> You are my hero!

Jan - I agree on the confederate flag. (and especially about the morons).

Kathy - um, we aren't the one who keeps bringing it up. Lain is. She comes in... drops Anti-American blather everywhere... then can't understand why we get so upset with her. If you try to explain it, she plays dumb. Im starting to think it's all a ploy to get attention. ::shrugs::
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- California State Flag ]
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:51:03 AM
IP: 216.249.101.103

<<Any maybe you guys should lay off Lain. Except for about the punctuation. Please continue to ride her hard about that. She's got questions, she's looking for answers and one way to get them is to provoke debate. And as long as said debate remains friendly then no harm no foul.>>

Heh heh heh heh heh heh NO.

Not as long as she continually keeps shitting on my country.
Sevarius Jr. - [sevariusjr@hotmail.com]
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:40:06 AM
IP: 207.172.11.147

Florida
Nickname: Sunshine State
Motto: In God We Trust.
Flag: two diaganol red stripes with the seal in the center.
Seal: A native American woman is dropping orange blossoms on the beach as a Spanish ship arrives.
Song: Swanne River
Flower: Orange blossom
Bird: Mockingbird
Tree: Sable Palm
Rock: Moonstome

Jan>>>Domo Kawaii. Looks like he is getting ready for the beach.<<<Being born on Texas soil is 2nd to being born an American.>>>No it’s not I was born in Irving and I would rather go through another root canal and live there, well c’mon compared to ORLANDO Fl????

Gside<<<Sound like Yoda, you do.>>> Actually Homer Simpson “Homer no function beer without.”<<<Well, here I am.>>>HISSSSSSS:::Grabs Lil Ripper((her bazooka)) and aims it at Gside.:: How dare you try to usurp the powers of the TGS GODs. Your are not Robby, Aaron, Greg, or Mara~sama. On your Knees and beg for Mercy!!!!!<<<Not that time, but I like to from time to time.>>>Yeah like now<<<The true Three >>>Muffy Buffy and Snuffy sometimes called the Norns sometimes the Fates.

Lain>>>Sorry to hear about that. I hope Gunjack will turn out well.<<<he has a bruise around his belly where the seatbelt held him in. and ..thats it.>>>Thank God for that. Ihope he has a speedy recovery. Lain<<<nobody has EVER enlightened me satisfactorally on this point. it is fabric. so what? what is so special about any given piece of cloth >>>It’s not the cloth but what it represents. Like a cross represents Jesus or a pyramid with eye the Illuminati.<<<would you die for your undies?>>>Depends on the undies.<<<but i still dont understand this whole flag thing>>>So if B. Liddy burned the Canadian flag you would feel nothing.

DPH<<<From now on, I'll be seeing my chiropractor once a month for a while. Today's visit was last of twice a month visits.>>>All right I hope your personal moron will give you less crap now.

Gabriel<<<Flag= Golden calf. >>>I don’t worship the flag. I honor it. I respect it, but I don’t worship it.

Jennifer<<>>Dem crazy Canadians and the way they mangle the English language.

“I believe my exact words were’ Holy Sweet Jesus H Christ Amen, Where in Hell are your God damn feet?’” Timothy Desmond~ Harpy High
Spacebabie - [Orlando]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:08:47 AM
IP: 67.24.95.65

WOOHOO!!! i dont have to go to work tonight because.. my STORE BLEW UP! okay, not exactly, but some guy was doing reonvations in another store, and drilled into a big main power thingy.. and ka-boom. big explosion. the guy is still alive.. but burned very badly. they have to wait for a part to be made and shipped up from tenessee to replace the blown-up one.
what a reason for a day off, eh? o.O

jan>> <<It's much easier to simplify things and call it a piece of cloth than it is to feel the pride and love for something that represents our country and the trials, tribulations, and lives that have been spent keeping it the great nation that it is>> wow, um.. did you actually read my post or just assume you knew what it said cos.. you seem to have missed a few important bits.. :P <<At my old elementary, we not only said the Pledge of Alligence, we also said the pledge to the state flag of Texas>> nope.. youre right.. i dont get it. i really dont see the POINT, thats really the issue, i think. well.. i guess it makes you feel texas is better than everywhere else (which leads to problems all its own..) but.. i dunno. you people are so wierd.. :P

peter>> <> *cough*

gside>> <<Why is the conglomeration of ink and dead wood in the form of Shakespeare's Complete Works (or whoever you think is a great author) any diferent or more special than, say, designer paper towels?>> um.. they arent? theres nothing special about the paper and ink. its whats WRITTEN on the paper thats important - just like whats symbolized in a flag. the actual paper (or flag or whatever) is completely unimportant.

yggdrasil>> <> o sweet heavenly canadian who also does not understand the ways of the wiley american.. <<you have intrigued me with the last post>> BWAA HAHAHAHAAAA! i mean.. *cough* yeah.. that was the general idea.. ;)

and what the heck is UP with my CAT?! shes meowing non-stop! her food is full, her litterbox is clean, ive played with her.. and.. now shes chasing her tail? o.O okay.. so she comes when shes called, walks on a leash, and chases her tail.. why is she meowing and not barking?! sheesh :P

mecord>> << funny, I thought she specifically said that she does NOT hate the USA>> OMG! you actually *READ* my post??? *faints* <<Hope dies when the flag falls, and if the soldiers have no hope they will fail>> now the practical reason, i comprehend. though, if i was on the battlefield, i think my attention would be focusing on not letting the flag sewn on my UNIFORM hit the ground.. :P <<different countries, or even states for that matter, think differently>> yessy.

lurker>> <<Get over it! Seriously. We get the point, you hate the USA! Now please, please stop using this room to take digs at the US to satisfy your anti-American sentiments. You can go to a political forum to do that>> oh dear :P

ontarios provincial flower: trillium
bird: loon
tree: white pine
tartan: we made it up, green for the forests and fields, white for the sky, red for the first nations and blue for the water
flag: uninon jack in the corner, shield with the cross of st george (britain) and a green field with three golden maple leaves.

i KNOW the symbols, and i think theyre neat and i know WHY they are supposed to represent my province blah blah. but thats it. oh well.

must go to school now. joy!

lain
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 09:39:41 AM
IP: 65.92.90.235

The American Flag: It's symbolic and to be held in respect.
I have included a link to a website that I had done while being involved in the BSA. On this page, it's a tribute to the flag.

Mecord> you did an excellent job of putting Lain's perception into perspective. As a native Texan, most others cannot understand the pride a Texan has in their state. *coughJoshcough* ;) Being born on Texas soil is 2nd to being born an American. No matter how much I love living in Missouri, my heart will always think of Texas first. At my old elementary, we not only said the Pledge of Alligence, we also said the pledge to the state flag of Texas. "Honor the Texas flag. I pledge alligence to thee, Texas, one and indivisible."

Jennifer> I think you hit the nail on the head - lain does not *want* to understand it. It's much easier to simplify things and call it a piece of cloth than it is to feel the pride and love for something that represents our country and the trials, tribulations, and lives that have been spent keeping it the great nation that it is.

Kathy> I am against removing the Confederate Flag. It represents history. However, it does make me mad when morons use it as a form of bigotry.

Gside> Some people think that Shemp was the original of 3rd person in the Three Stooges, but he was not. He was, however, the original before they hit the TV/movie screen. Shemp joined the TV show after Curly suffered his first stroke and illness. After Shemp came Curly Joe and then the last of the 3rd stooge was Joe. (which I never cared for)
One of my best childhood memories was when I was able to actually meet the 3 Stooges! I was very young at the time, but I'll never forget them. I was staying with my aunt/uncle - who lived on an Air Force base and the 3 Stooges made an appearance there. My aunt, knowing what a huge fan I was, took me to see them. I shook their hands and gave Moe a hug. *chuckles*

gaw... time for work... *runs out*
Jan - [<-- I Am the Flag]
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 08:13:02 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

Just to join in:

Missouri state flag: Red, white, and blue horizontal stripes, with a coat of arms supported by two bears in the middle (surrounded by a blue circle with white stars on it).

State bird: Eastern bluebird.
State flower: Hawthorn blossom.
State mineral: Galena.
State song: "The Missouri Waltz". (Harry Truman, by the way, thought that it was a terrible song for Missouri, and didn't conceal his dislike of it).
State tree: Flowering dogwood.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 08:01:50 AM
IP: 65.57.62.134

State flags:
Oklahoma:
State flag: blue with a shield symbolizing the Five Civilized Tribes -- Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole. (Part Cherokee and damn proud of it.)
State bird: Scissor-tail Flycatcher
State flower: Mistletoe

Texas:
State flag: Two horizontal rectangles on the right, white over red, and one blue vertical rectangle containing the Lone Star of Texas on the left.
State bird: Mockingbird
State tree: Pecan
State flower: Bluebonnet
State animal: Longhorn
State drink: Dr. Pepper or Iced Tea (this one's a matter of taste!)

In the course of helping Paul write a report on Nevade, we learned that it's the only state with a State Fossil. (Which was a real lifesaver for the report because I didn't think 2nd graders needed to know about the legalized prostitution and gambling....)

My children have been a real education..... *L*
Spike
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 07:42:50 AM
IP: 64.216.237.122

Flags are symbols. As symbols they have the ability to evoke strong emotions like patriotism and controversy. Witness the Georgia State Flag. It was changed last year to its current incarnation - a blue field with the state seal in the middle and the four previous state flags plus an American flag in a ribbon field at the bottom. The change came after thirty some years of debate over the previous flag adopted during the same general era as when 'Under God' was inserted into the pledge of allegiance. Only in this instance the governing legislature wasn't fighting 'godless commies', but the 'dire threat of desegregation'. That flag - the confederate stars and bars coupled with the Georgia state seal was a huge shout out to anybody who would listen that Georgia wasn't going to change its ways for anybody. Course it's made the state look foolish and backwards (not to mention racist) to anybody who doesn't understand the peculiar mindset down here - but that's a whole 'nother fish to fry.

Other symbols: Flower- Cherokee Rose, Bird - Brown Thrasher, Fruit - peach, Song- "Georgia on My Mind"

Flags and feelings. It wasn't so long ago that you would get your tail kicked (literally)for dressing yourself in an American Flag. It kind of boggles my mind to walk through a shopping mall and see the swim suits, shorts and other sundry items offered for sale. Honestly, I can't decide if it's a good thing or a bad one.

Any maybe you guys should lay off Lain. Except for about the punctuation. Please continue to ride her hard about that. She's got questions, she's looking for answers and one way to get them is to provoke debate. And as long as said debate remains friendly then no harm no foul.

Other news - it finally rained here last night. And I'm not refering to the greater Atlanta metro area, that it's been doing for several days. No I mean here, my house. All these bloody popup showers and we've gotten missed EVERY SINGLE TIME. So Yay for that.
kathy
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 07:32:51 AM
IP: 66.32.99.129

ok. i think the next thing you should try is puting some of this story that have been written into some sort of animation video thing. there might be a way to get the copyrighted voice for it and just chang the words if that is possible. not sure though. i think there should be more pics.
Peter
Colorado`, us
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 01:51:47 AM
IP: 12.253.26.173

ok. i think the next thing you should try is puting some of this story that have been written into some sort of animation video thing. there might be a way to get the copyrighted voice for it and just chang the words if that is possible. not sure though. i think there should be more pics.
Peter - [nighttiger123@attbi.com]
Colorado`, us
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 01:51:07 AM
IP: 12.253.26.173

Ack, the procrastination monster has me in it's jaws, and will not let go!!!

sigh... I should so be writing...

But in the meanwhile, here's the link to my State Flag

http://www.50states.com/flag/ksflag.htm

Our State Motto: "To the Stars Through Difficulties"

Bird - the meadowlark
Flower - the sunflower
Nickname: Sunflower State
Origin of state's name: From the Sioux Indian for "south wind people"

One of my fave songs was done by a local band, one of the here today gone tomorrow, electric folk rock bands.

"Kansas Sky"
by Sign of Saturn

"Listen to the wind/ Wonder is the weather fair?/ Will there be a storm today/ Or will the clouds roll by?

Years of burdens now forgot / Our wrongs can be repaired Beneath the open Kansas sky...

Thousands of people, give a warring cry
Thousands of friends sit back and pray
Thousands of people here... they all begin to die
And I hear these are called their glorious days

***
It's got a beautiful electric violin and other stuff. Shame the group broke up. The talent in the band was tremendous.
One of my old girlfriends shared a house with them when they were together. They were a pretty wild bunch. I can still smell the smoke that would cling to my hair and clothes from all those tiny, crowded bars and coffee houses I got dragged to where they performed. Mmm... good times.

*nostalgic kitty*
Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:54:29 AM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Anyone in here have or know who has the email name of izzolexinton3? If so they sent me an email and for some reason I couldn't read it. So if anybody knows who it was please tell them to try again.
Mecord - [mecordlein@lycos.com]
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:40:10 AM
IP: 12.255.11.48

Best wishes to Gunjack.

Ravyn> <<Sorry! I would have>>: Cure, and risk being sacrificed to my Dark Lord to further his summoning so his age can begin before the rise of the Tribunal of Light?
<<The water is ... uhh ... interesting>>: Come on, it's got more flavor than all the water in the rest of the world combined.
<>: It's the most northerly one, the rest have largish streets, farm animals, or lisbians running through them.
<<it's the only place I've ever seen that still has gas station attendants pump your gas *for you.*>>: That's right everyone. Full service is mandatory in Jersey.
<>: If it's any consolation, we get confused when we go out of state and no one asks us whether we regular or ultra.

The Star Spangled Badger: I like the Sousa version greatly, especially when I get that run of eighths near the end.

Lain> <<why is that particular conglomeration of cloth any different or more special than, say, your underwear?>>: Why is the conglomeration of ink and dead wood in the form of Shakespeare's Complete Works (or whoever you think is a great author) any diferent or more special than, say, designer paper towels? Different conglomerations of the same materials can be much more important than others.

Jersey state stuff: Flag: Yellow with seal, Bird: Goldfinch, Nickname: Garden State (also on license plates)

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:09:05 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Greetings;

Well I just got back from my first vacation in a good long while. I took the opportunity to do some diving at Tomermory, Ontario. For any divers out there this truly is a place that has to be experienced. Some of the wrecks are in fabulous condition, although they can be quite deep (The Arabia was extremely impressive but is at about 40m so it does take some experience).

Regardless here I am.

Lain: I really hope that Gunjack is OK, and you have intrigued me with the last post. I'll just have to wait and see.

Flag Comments: It's true that not being an American I cannot fully understand the level of attachment that is associated with a particular piece of cloth. I know about the idea in theory, but just can't quite grasp it. I think it has to do with concepts and association.

The flag represent the ideals of American society. When one talks about picking up the colours on the battlefield (not done to much in modern warfare but still a good example) one is not really picking up a flag, they are raising a foci that embodies their beliefs. This example of iconology is not merely a western idea, for parallels can be drawn from many cultures that use different icons for the same purpose. In America it is the icon with which they associate, not their beliefs, but the ideals associated with them.

In essence in the eyes of Americans the flag is not just a piece of cloth; it represents what they are. To many outsiders this icon is a foreign object, as it is a belief that has been engrained in them from an early stage. Trying to explain it to them would be like trying to describe the colour red to a blind individual, unless a parallel can be found in that person’s culture. Take myself, I have just written a small blurb trying to understand a concept, which is foreign to me. My thinking makes sense to me, the conclusions probable, but do I understand the devotion to a woven fabric? I would have to say no, it's just not in me. A flag is just a flag, a means of identification. To me it’s a symbol, not an icon. It's something that I would stitch on a backpack to identify myself, not something I would go out of my way to protect. If someone wanted to burn the Canadian flag, I have no problem with this. They want to make a comment against Canada, that’s fine. I view the flag as an identifier, thus in burning the flag they are not attacking my beliefs as such it does not evoke such a strong response. I know some people do feel this way; it's just not in me.

Well that's enough babbling for tonight.

Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:30:08 PM
IP: 24.43.225.56

Best wishes to Gunjack for a speedy recovery.

Ohio's State Flag: Red, white, and blue, and the only one of all 50 state's that's NOT rectangular. It's penant shaped.

Other Ohio stuff...
Ohio's State Bird: Cardinal
Ohio's State Tree: BuckeyeOhio's State Motto: "The Heart of it All"
Ohio's State License Plate slogan: "Birthplace of Aviation"

And finally...
Ohio's State Flower: The Orange Construction Barrel, which can be seen blooming in mass quantities every spring along our highways. ;)
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:14:01 PM
IP: 67.38.243.8

Best wishes to Gunjack, hope he's okay!

State symbols > oopsie, I don't even remember any of mine. Not from CA where I grew up or WA where I live now. Mount Ranier is on our license plate and some people think that the state's name should be changed to Cascadia to avoid the constant "no, Washington STATE" correction, and that's about all I know.

Watched Armageddon for the umpteenth time last night. One of my fave disaster movies despite some glaringly annoying problems (though Independence Day probably tops my list for global mayhem). Anyway, it's always a treat to see Keith and listen to him talk. What a voice!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 09:52:29 PM
IP: 65.239.13.250

firestorm and lady mystic:

things have proceeded uh.. faster than expected. if you want that preview, ill be around here somewhers.. *bounces excitedly.. in a VERY tired manner*
lain
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 09:35:20 PM
IP: 65.92.90.235

Okay, my attempting to be funny has once again backfired.
I posted an apology in the MGC.

If anyone has anything else they'd like to say, please contact me, and not Greg Bishansky.
Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 09:34:06 PM
IP: 141.156.172.229

Okay THIS is the last message

1 Thank you SPIKE. . . and mooncat

2 It's sorry, not dorry

Sarge
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 09:15:56 PM
IP: 205.188.208.9

He's gonna think me nuts. I sent him a letter as well. Made a little rant at him about leaving us for two years. then did some blithering. i do that a lot. Bilther.

Anyway thanks Mooncat!

Sarge (I'm stopping these messages so dorry for making idle chat on the board.)
sarge Abernathy
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 09:14:09 PM
IP: 205.188.208.9

Sarge>> Just sent your last comment off to Dylan... *laughs* ... oh, are you in for a treat. I got to beta read the latest installment of "Cathesis" only two weeks ago and it's friggin' brilliant (and coincidently, up at gargoyles-fans.org). He's hard at work at Part 4 which should conclude that particular storyline. It seems that Whitbourne and Carbonear and Bonavista have been getting on him about getting on with their stories....

As for Stormy, she's busy with law school and her summer job working at a Canadian air base. Luckily, she's letting Dylan work her characters into his story... you'll see what I mean.

Spike
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 09:06:35 PM
IP: 65.71.252.193

I found dylan's "annoucement" so no need to tell me more. . . . YEAHHHHHH He's back! =) This makes me want to write! . . . unfortunately I haven't written any gargoyle stuff for over four years. . . . . . . . . .

ummmm

yeah

Sarge
Sarge
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 08:54:22 PM
IP: 205.188.208.9

MOONCAT: Dylan has written a lot more than that. All oh his fanfics are up at the Can Clan Web Page. . . . he's finished with shadowplay and has finished around 20 full size fics. However the Can clan page had stoped updating and the last thing said was that he was retiring. He never finished the Catechesis story and I want to read it. . . . .

=(
Sarge Abernathy
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 08:46:48 PM
IP: 205.188.208.9

Just a note that I've set up my Live Journal page

I'll be doing my Gathering Journal on the Live Journal, bits and pieces when I can find the time.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/mooncatx/

ciao
MC
>^,,^<

MC
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 07:34:12 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Spike - Thanks for the heads up. I'll toddle off tomorrow and pick up some more pins then. *^_^* whee!!! Buy one get one free!!! Makes me wish I'd waited on the five I already bought. sigh....

Sarge - *blinks* What do you mean what happened to Dylan? His stuff is currently posted in New section of the GFW. Has been non-stop for the past month.

Flag stuff -- *looks at argument* ... huh? I would die for the flag if keeping it aloft was part of a combat and it's presence was having a direct effect on troop moral.
However, if the flag planted on my wall, or my neighbor's door post, or in a shop window etc fell, I'd jump to catch it, but I wouldn't take a bullet for it. There is a time and a place for all things. Some things are entirely situational.

Because of what the flag stands for, I'd fight for a person's right to burn the flag as part of their freedom of speech. If they bought it themselves and had all the proper permits to go burning something, etc.

Otherwise I'd thump them one for being a silly twit.

I love my flag. It's got pretty red and white stripes and makes me think of peppermint and fireworks. It's extremely attractive in design, and is a wonderful visual symbol for some extremely nifty ideals and goals.

*does the liberty kitty dance*

It also looks really good on cakes, pins, teddy bears, and other commercial items. Yes, it's commercial too, and there is Nothing Wrong With That. Part of what the flag stands for is capitalism. I think it's appropriate that US citizens should love their flag and the commercialism of said flag means I can buy nifty flag items that I think are totally cool.

My friend Lily has this great heart shaped pin that is the flag in a heart shape. It's gorgeous. It's also hand made by some lady who was a co-worker of another friend of ours, and they got made over a year ago. When I found that out I was so bummed, because I wanted one. It's totally cute and pretty.

Well, procrastinated too much. Gotta get back to writing!!!

Mooncat
>^,,^<

Gonna have steak tonight!!! Beef on sale!!! Lucky!!!
*happy kitty yum yum dance*

MC
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 07:27:41 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

The American Flag>> Since this happens to be a hot topic in here I thought I’d say something. First of all calling Lain Anti-American is uncalled for. Sure she’s expressed some concerns and whatnot but that is no reason to start yelling at each other. Other countries have different views on society. For all we know Lain may be the only non-American who doesn’t understand the flag thing, but I doubt it. This is like wondering why the Hopi tribe doesn’t understand why Christians hold such a high value over the bible. One thing I’ve learned from my limited travel is that different countries, or even states for that matter, think differently. The idea behind the American Flag is American heritage, not Canadian, or Japanese, or Mexican. Not even all Americans esteem the flag so greatly. Heck, I find myself wondering if I would dive after the flag if I saw it falling on the battlefield. I don’t know that I would. On the other hand, I know that American soldiers tend to fight harder when the flag is raised. Hope dies when the flag falls, and if the soldiers have no hope they will fail. Maybe it’s like a superstition. There may not be any rhyme nor reason to it. But it’s real enough to those who believe.

Crzy>> just wondering, do you take pride in your state bird? The state flower? The State Flag? I do. Like I said before, it’s a heritage thing. The Utah Heritage is strong, and on the 24th of July, Pioneer day, we celebrate that heritage. For us it is as American as Old Glory. For other states, it’s just another stupid bird. I only say this because maybe it will give you some insight on Lain’s way of thinking.

Lurker>> funny, I thought she specifically said that she does NOT hate the USA

Mecord
Logan, Utah, USA
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 07:22:05 PM
IP: 12.255.11.48

lain- Get over it! Seriously. We get the point, you hate the USA! Now please, please stop using this room to take digs at the US to satisfy your anti-American sentiments. You can go to a political forum to do that.
lurker
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 07:12:41 PM
IP: 216.160.97.192

crzy demona>> no, i will probably not understand why a piece of fabric means so much to you.. but you will notice that i said "the flag" not "the american flag" and was speaking of flags in general, not of the american flag in particular. i would be just as confused by annoyed at anyone from my country if they had said the same thing. its not you, its the CONCEPT in general.

i can respect that the flag means something to you. my flag means something to me.. no problem there. i only have a hard time with the whole thing when people try to convince me its "more than a piece of fabric" and would rather give their lives trying to save it from hitting the ground than, say, spend their energy trying to help a fallen comrade.. and then tell stories about it like its a good and noble waste of a life. certainly the things which are represented by any given flag may be worth dying to protect.. but the fabric itself? no. the ideas live in PEOPLE, not in the fabric. the PEOPLE of a nation are SO much more important as carriers of the symbol of what it means to be a member of that nation and share that set of beliefs than any piece of fabric. the fabric is only a reminder. the fabric itself has no value but in the mind of the viewer. the fabric can be replaced - but the human life and all the potential therein cannot. this is why i dont understand the degree of reverence that seems to be being presented.

of course, id LIKE to understand about this flag thing.. but it makes *absolutely* no sense to me whatsoever. so youre right, i should probably just give up.

and no, i dont hate americans. sometimes i am mildly annoyed, like people in here are (apparently) annoyed with the french. somehow, its allright for them to be annoyed with others, but not alright for me. ive pointed this out once before.. i dont know how this works, but its decidedly strange. i am not anti-american. i am anti-some-of-americas-policies-and-actions, sure, but not anti american. im dating one (you might have noticed) and am good friends with a number of americans that you know about.. and a good number you dont. not all of them are flakey hippie peaceniks, either ;)

i dont have a "personal vendetta" against americans. there are, however, things i feel strongly about, just like you seem to. i LIKE people who disagree with me, because they force me to question what i believe. i enjoy debating issues-at-hand here, i just wish it didnt seem to degenerate into name-calling and type-casting all the time (im guilty of this, too.. so im not trying to foist off blame here) but i dont have prejudice against americans. america pisses me off sometimes, but i do my best to look at the issue itself before making the judgement that its bad because it came from america. lots of good things have come from (and continue to come from) america, too. it isnt really something thats "fun" for me.. but when i feel something is incorrect, and feel it very strongly, i tend to become passionate. im sorry if this comes across as zeal, or general hatred of americans - thats not it at all.
as a child, i was always taught to separate my feelings for a part from my feelings for the whole. i might (and do) hate something an american DOES.. but that doesnt mean i hate the american, you see? the whole is much more than merely the sum of one part.

anyway.. i dont mean to be bitter.. but i still dont understand this whole flag thing. its probably going to stay like that, too.. my being stubborn and all. i understand patriotism, also.. to a certain extent. but i am also a little afraid of it, because it has been (and still is, in my opinion) used as a dangerous weapon. (which isnt necessarily to say i think its being used that way in america right now.. its just to say i am wary of big zealous partiotic things in general).

anyway. thats my response.
lain
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 06:58:15 PM
IP: 65.92.90.235

Lain - I have a million things I could say to you right now... but it is basically useless... You will NEVER understand why some piece of fabric means so much to us. You don't really WANT to understand from what I see here.

Is it so hard for you to at least respect that it does, in fact, mean so much to us? Why do you use this comment room as your personal Anti-American venting ground? What happened to you that has built up this prejudice against America? Is this fun for you?

I guess I don't understand you and your bitterness as much as you don't understand us and our patriotism.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 06:17:07 PM
IP: 216.249.102.116

yeah!!! College will be starting next month! it's a whole new world for me! Art, writing, free cable and internet in my dorm. . . . .

sweeeeeeet.

So anyhoo. . . . . I have some quick questions concerning things that I am the last to know about.

A. What happen to Dylan Blacquiere and his fan-fiction? Is it truly gone?

B. Where is Stormy's website? Is it still up?

Thanks to anyone who can answer this!

Sarge
Sarge Abernathy - [SargeMM@aol.com]
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 05:30:14 PM
IP: 205.188.208.9

kai>> <<Next time, put a little effort into it>> ooooh.. do i HAVE to? i havent had more than 6 hours of sleep since friday, youll have to excuse me :P

but yes, you kinda missed the point.

let me make myself clearer.. a flag is a piece of dyed and/or sewn cloth. why is that particular conglomeration of cloth any different or more special than, say, your underwear?

answer? ***IT ISNT***

nobody has EVER enlightened me satisfactorally on this point. it is fabric. so what? what is so special about any given piece of cloth that any person, in the heat of battle, would waste their life trying to keep a piece of cloth from getting dirty? what is the sense in that? i will never understand. dont you think helping a wounded comrade would be a better use of the time and energy? or am i just too practical or something?

yes, i understand that flags are symbols of nationality and instill pride and all that jazz - but that doesnt make the flag any less of a normal piece of fabric!

would you die for your undies? i hope not.. :P

was that clear enough?

gabe>> hey, you just posted! get yer messenger on, will ya? i have an important semiotic/theological question for us to play with :D
lain
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 05:21:03 PM
IP: 65.92.90.235

Jen> nonononononono, you still miss my point. The fact that men are dying to keep the flag from hitting the ground, etc. is revering an object for more than it is. It being there is not bad, but when people are dying over it and killing over it, that's an entirely differant outlook, and it is idolatrous.

And I am by no means a rebel; and I do tend to rag on states, but by no means would I brag about it; it's no differant than people bitching about liberals and bragging about how conservative they are; I do follow the law and obey it. Anyways, I don't owe anyone justifications for my "bragging."

And thanks for fowarding the e-mail. :)
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 05:08:52 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Gabriel - I think you also need to read Kaioto's post again. You are trying to read into it what isn't there. He uses capitals ONLY when refering to proper names.

I know you like to brag about how you are such a rebel and against the system and all it stands for. I really think you like to just disagree for no reason and cause issues that aren't issues at all.
BTW, I got your e-mail. I forwarded it on to Greg to find out what he thinks. I will drop you a note when I get an answer.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 04:53:47 PM
IP: 216.249.102.116

Kaioto <<Britain has a very old tradition of national symbols, including the Union Jack, and is very much obsessed with symbols of its own country's legacy.>> true ;P <<Instead of obsessing with their flag, the British obsess over their throw-back institution of a symbolic monarchy.>> really? I don't, they mean nothing 2 me (I mean what do they do apart from waves their hands in public and open buildings?) <<Still, recent members of the Royal Family have made it increasingly difficult to take the Royals seriously.>> such as...? (Cough:PrinceHarryspacedout:Cough) <<But that doesn't stop the British from dumping a lot of money and attention their way. >> actualy recent studies show we British public only give them one pound a year each. But one pounds too much!
silverbolt
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 04:42:49 PM
IP: 213.1.103.231

Jen, Kai> I don't think she was commenting on that; but rather that the desciptions and loyalty Kai was making was showing a deification of the flag.
gabriel "gaygoyle"
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 04:11:25 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Leo- LOL!! OMG ... I was looking at a pic of the Union Jack when I was typing that. LOL!! Nice catch on my goof! ;)

Kaioto - Since Lain firmly doesn't believe in capatilizing ANYTHING (including her own name) I am certain that's why she doesn't under stand how proper nouns work. :)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 04:03:25 PM
IP: 216.249.102.116

Actually, I side with Lain in this one.

Flag= Golden calf.

But one could expect such out of me. :)
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 03:56:27 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Lain> Cute Lain, but unfortunately, your implication falls on its face quite messily. I'm not using the convention of capitalizing a monotheistic diety.

Nice try. Thanks for playing. Next time, put a little effort into it. :P

In this case, I've addressed "the US Flag" and "the German Flag" as proper names. The US Flag has had many other names ("Old Glory," "The Stars and Stripes," etc.), but it has always been known as the US Flag. Sure, I may be abusing the language by capitalizing out of turn, but it helps make things distinct.

Elsewhere, I reference "your flag," and "our flag" in the lower case because those aren't names or titles.

I reference "the Flag" when it is clear that the "US" part of "US Flag" is implicit (like a paragraph where all I do is refer to "the US Flag").

I also capitalize "Mom" and "Dad" at times in writing as well. You can try to gold-mine there next if you'd like, but you might have something more productive to do with your time. :D

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 03:31:15 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

CrzyDemona:<<the Union Jack doesn't represent the American Government>>You're certainly right about that. :) The "Union Jack" is the nick name for the BRITISH flag. :)

No offence. (because I could be wrong) :)
Leo
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 02:51:51 PM
IP: 172.160.154.192

Brief Gargoyles Consumer Announcement:

The Disney Store is selling collector's pins this week -- Buy One, Get One FREE. If you haven't gotten your Gargoyles pins, this is the time to do it!

*figures she deserves some perks after enduring an hour in the mall arcade with her boys*
Spike
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 02:30:30 PM
IP: 64.216.239.180

kaioto>> only one question: why is it you capitalize the word "Flag" like you do the word "God"?
lain
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 02:01:22 PM
IP: 65.92.90.235

Kai - To me, the Union Jack doesn't represent the American Government. It represents the basic beliefs of the populace of America... Especially Liberty and freedom.

I don't put my flag out every day for my GOVERNMENT'S sake. Hell no! (especially since my ass of a governer just signed the SUV tax!) I fly it for the men and women who died defending those values and beliefs.

One of the most emotionally touching images I have ever seen is of the flag being raised at Iwo Jima. Second to that image, has to be the fire fighters raising the flag at Ground Zero. How about the image of the Revolutionary flute player, the drummer and the flag barer? All wounded but still carrying the flag proudly as they limp along. These are the images that stir my pride. Why? Because all of these images are representative of what we have fought and died for... "Life, Liberty and the Persuit of Happiness". They don't bring to mind images of a Government building somewhere. That's not what my pride is about.

Each stripe stands for one of the original colonies. Each star stands for a state in the Union. Together, they stand for a premise that is over 200 years old and going strong.

I also have a bit of pride for the Gadsden flag. One of the first flags the Revolutionaries flew. The symbol of the rattlesnake with the words "Don't Tread on Me" written across it. The symbolism means a lot to me since 9/11.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- Gadsden Flag]
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 12:57:38 PM
IP: 216.249.101.121

Tribun: That is very insightful look at the origins of your flag. Thanks for posting it. :)

Perhaps I chose my words poorly, however, I'm not trying to talk about how long a flag has been around, but how long the flag has been used as a national symbol and how much continuity there is in such use. That sort of contributes to the emotional and psychological momentum behind the society's feelings about its flag.

In the case of your account of the German Flag, it wasn't a nation symbol until very recently. It was censored or given to factionism for most of its life. That disruption by the Nazis and the fall-out that happened after (East / West Germany split) really does put a huge disruption in the continuity of the modern nation of Germany.

The US Flag only suffered from factionism in flags during the civil war, at the close of which, the side carrying the Stars and Stripes won and raised it over the entire Union once more to emphasize the point of indivisability.

Perhaps it is remnant of that extreme emphasis that still lingers in our attachment to the US Flag today?
kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:43:56 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Kaioto>The German flag has a very long history, I will say here in the short form:

-The colours black-red-gold where first seen in the time shortly after the wars against Napoleon 1815.
-From 1815-1848 this flag was the sign of the modern thinking people, who wanted a united Germany.
-1848 it was the flag of the people, who tried a revolution to unite Germany, but they failed, and the flag vanished for many years (censorship).
-1871 with the united germany, they not wanted the black-red-gold flag and choosed black-white-red(black white for Prussia). But the flag of the revolution wasn't forgotten.
-1919 with proclamation of the Republic, the flag black-red-gold became national flag. (And the conxervatives doesn't liked it).
-1933 the NS-Regime forbate the flag , and made thier own national flag (you know, what sort of flag I mean).
-With foundation of both german states 1949, black-red-gold became national flag in both states.(In the GDR(east) with an emblem, in the FRG(west) the original without emblem)
-1990 the united Germany got the black-red-gold flag as national flag.

So, don't say, the German national flag doesn't have a long history...........
Tribun - [joachim_henkel@gmx.net]
Luebeck, SH, Germany
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:23:59 AM
IP: 62.214.35.225

The American Flag: Why do some US citizens identify with it so much?

Our flag is a widely used to honor veterans who served and often died fighting as the decisive force of some of the most vital military conflicts of the modern age. A lot of the time, it isn't the fabric, but the people and memories we associate with that pattern that we rever so much.

The American Flag was established and maintained from an era where flags were still a VITALLY important part of a military campaign. They were a rallying point for troops and losing the national flag was a severe disgrace for a military unit. Typically, if a flag were to fall in battle, the unit is soon to follow.

American soldiers have actually died in the front lines of battle for no other reason but to keep the Flag from hitting the ground. Consequently, their acts of sacrifice were often the deciding factor between their unit holding their ground, or being routed. These soldiers were citizens and would go on to shape the future society after the wars, passing on values and traditions in civilian life.

Many countries don't feel the same way about their own flag. In the modern era many do not have anything close to the same flag they had 300 years ago. (America just kept adding stars). Germany and the former Soviet Union countries are good examples of this. Other countries lack a national identity or fundamental faith in their government. Good examples of this may include Italy, Mexico, and many parts of Africa and South America.

Britain has a very old tradition of national symbols, including the Union Jack, and is very much obsessed with symbols of its own country's legacy. Instead of obsessing with their flag, the British obsess over their throw-back institution of a symbolic monarchy. Still, recent members of the Royal Family have made it increasingly difficult to take the Royals seriously. But that doesn't stop the British from dumping a lot of money and attention their way.

France ... I'll never profess to understand what the French are thinking. The residents of Paris give foreigners a bad impression of the country, typically. I think their national identity may be heavily influenced by the fact that they were overrun by foreign invaders in two world wars in the last century.

For me, the American Flag may mean something more important to me because it was draped over my grandfather's coffin last year. It has been used to treat my family and people who protected my liberty with respect. In their memories, I will treat it with respect, and be unfavorably disposed to those who treat it with direspect.

re: Gunjack: Glad to hear he managed to get through relatively unscathed. Thank you for passing on the information, Lain.

Josh: I like a lot of the Mac's designs, but the Toilet-Seat model of laptop computer was a definite mistake. Now those Titanium G4's ... :)

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 10:48:50 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

ravyn, DPH>> thanks for your concern.

yeah so.. the word is that he was sitting in the middle of the back seat with this other guy driving. the other guy was driving a little recklessly on a gravel road, and they went around a corner too fast, lost control, and the car went careening down a hill, rolling over a few times.. but they managed to get out before roof of the car collapsed on them.

the car is completely totalled. if gunjack had been sitting a few inches from where he was, he would have been cut in half. if he hadnt been wearing his seatbelt, he would have been ejected through the windscreen and been very, very dead. but as it stands.. he has a bruise around his belly where the seatbelt held him in. and ..thats it.

so yeah, i didnt get much sleep last night, either, but the good news this morning was certainly worth it. im going to try and con a ride or some money out of my father to go and see him in new york.

all i can say is "wow". and possibly "whew".

i still havent managed to get through to him at camp. soon, i hope.

anyways. thats the word.
lain
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 09:55:50 AM
IP: 65.92.90.235

Hey, everyone! After spending the years since Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles aired Gargoyle-less, I was beyond thrilled to find this website, and particularly TGS. I'm just taking this moment to give a hats-off to the writers of TGS. I've never been a fan of fanfic, but I must say I absolutely LOVE TGS. It's wonderful :-D. I've always thought that Gargoyles was one of the best blends of modern times and Medieval lore to be found, with incredible characters and captivating storylines. I'm really glad to see something that carries on the orginal spirit so well, right down to the influence of classical literature. It's really late and I'm slightly brain dead so I really can't say everything I want to about TGS. To all involved in the creative process for TGS: anything you've wanted to hear in praise of TSG, go ahead and imagine I've said it. [within reason... I can't hand out Nobel prizes for literature or anything here ;-) ] I'm really looking forward to finishing the archived eps of TSG and I hope that hiatus doesn't become permanent!
Anonymous
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 03:03:19 AM
IP: 24.24.46.141

Hope Gunjack's okay!!! Please keep us all updated if anyone hears anything about his condition. :(

Gside> <<And you didn't stop by me>> Sorry! I would have, since I was right there, but my brother was with me at the time, and he was weird as it was, so ... ;) <<Did you drink the water?>> Oh, yeah. The water is ... uhh ... interesting, I guess is a good way to put it? :) I bought bottled water as soon as I could ... ;) <<Did you stop by Busch?>> Hmm ... I don't think so, but I think maybe we went by a sign or something saying it was close by ... I can't remember ... it sounds vaguely familiar. ;) <<Stop by the Stone Pony? And you did see the actual shore, so did you also stop by Sandy Hook?>> Didn't stop by the Stone Pony, but I did spend a few hours on two different days just walkin' up and down the boardwalk by the beach. I think it's probably good I didn't go by the Stone Pony ... I left NJ on Saturday morning, and all the hotels were full ... I guess Springsteen was having a concert the next day or someting. ;) And yes, we went to Sandy Hook ... my mom loves lighthouses, so I had to go get pictures of Sandy Hook and of the Twin Lights lighthouse that was just near that. <> I'll admit that I thought the whole state was like what I saw in Jersey City and Newark. I'm really glad it's not like that. And one last thing about Jersey ... it's the only place I've ever seen that still has gas station attendants pump your gas *for you.* I had no idea what these people were doing when they came up to the car ... ;)

Jan> Aww, Zach is cute! He *does* look like a Rugrat, it's really cool ... ;) *hugs back* And thanks!! I'll let you know how Michigan is. ;)

Well, gotta go try to sleep now ... see you guys around! :)
Ravyn
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 01:00:18 AM
IP: 150.135.118.235

*steps in*

Descriptions of the Mascots for the Gathering 2003 are now up at the MGC board, under the last section, "Gargoyles", in the "Gathering 2003" link.

I believe the site is:
http://pub39.ezboard.com/bmgc32513

but if it is not, simply scroll down this screen to where Siryn linked it earlier, and clicky there.

Josh: it was almost 8am, actually. you'd still not likely have been up.

*Gone*
Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, July 23, 2002 12:25:57 AM
IP: 141.156.220.92

GSide - <He's a Machead. Apple decided that floppies were
completely obsolete and stopped having them standard on their machines.> ohh. Thanks for feeling me in. <They also made 8" floppies.> Thankfully, 8" floppies are older than me, but I saw one once.

Jan - <he is beginning to crawl!> Congrats.

Lain - <he was just trying to make a little funny, no
worries.> There are somethings I am serious about.

Speaking of that, I really do need to work on my image is a completely serious person and if I attend the next Gathering, I'm clean that image up to make it more truthfull.

Cassandra - <i just wanted to say that i love what you've done with the Gargoyles series. I think you've kept Greg Weisman's creation true to its form, and i've enjoyed reading every episode. Naturally, i hope to read more on this sight and i hope you haven't given up on it. That would be like the end of a really good dream; Inevitable, but still disappointing. You're all such great authors and artists, and i'm glad you took the time to get this far.> Thank you very much.

Silverbolt - <You got that right! They certainly are! I just hope they do a season 4!> Thank you very much.

Speaking of which, I was quoted on the GNC. Yea!!

Green Baron - <It's similar in Louisiana. Though it seems blacks don't want their kids dating whites either, so its not one-sided. The taboo will die out as the bigots die out. > Hopefully so. < Low wages are an issue to debate. I'd pay them at subsistence level and then some.> Good to know, but here's another question: what about the employer who pays very low wages and donates lots of money to charity?

I have good news: From now on, I'll be seeing my chiropractor once a month for a while. Today's visit was last of twice a month visits.

Christine - <Everyone gets so worked up about the rights of animals and never mind the rights of people. It's a sorry thing to see.> I can believe that. I can easily imagine a group of tree huggers easily being pro-choice and seeing no contradiction.

Leo - Your article was mentioned on the Rush Limbaugh show.

Lynati - <eh, the US is a funny place. A friend of mine is risking possible jail-time becasue he forgot to tell people that he moved. Something about them trying to claim it is unemployment fraud.> Sheesh. I could tell you about somebody on the voter roll who has an address listed that said person hasn't lived at for YEARS, but I can't say a word about it to the person.

Ravyn - <I'M BACK!!! :) Didja miss me?> yea, because the CR size was smaller.

Stephanie - how did you get your post so narrow?

Lain - Sorry to hear about Gunjack.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, July 22, 2002 11:34:19 PM
IP: 204.94.193.44

gunjacks mother just called to tell me that he was involved in a car accident on the way back to camp from his day off.

not much in the way of details yet, other than the car was totalled, he was wearing his seatbelt (otherwise he would have been ejected) hes not dead and no-one has yet heard a list of injuries, be they mild or severe. ive been trying to phone the camp for 3/4 or an hour and the line is either busy or no-one is answering :/

ill keep trying..

lain
Monday, July 22, 2002 10:50:03 PM
IP: 65.92.92.17

Warpmind> <<Sorry; been fresh out of marmosets for the past months. Might get some new in next week, though, but don't count on it>>: Drat. At least I'm still not sure whether it was cheese whiz or not. And the convex side is barely concave, so that would probably change things a bit, anyway.

Spacebabie> <<Brain no function coffee without>>: Sound like Yoda, you do.
<<Waits patiently for one of the Four Gods to post>>: Well, here I am.
<<You didn�t put your foot in your mouth>>: Not that time, but I like to from time to time.
<<Gside woudn�t but I would>>: I make exceptions for Imzadi. And whoever else I lie blatantly about.
<<Larry, Moe and Curly Joe.>>: Curly Joe was just a replacement. The true Three were Moe, Larry, and Curly.

Ravyn> <>: And you didn't stop by me. Though that does explain why you survived. Did you drink the water?
<<And Ft. Monmouth, NJ was lovely>>: Thank you.
<>: Did you stop by Busch? It's where I and the engineers spend most of our time. We've got an impressive collection of fiber optic draw towers.
<<Asbury Park>>: Stop by the Stone Pony? And you did see the actual shore, so did you also stop by Sandy Hook?
<<a lot more pretty green forest parts down in the middle of the state>>: And I bet you thought we didn't have any. See anything devilish?

Imzadi> <<You mean like the Cinema and Cinema HD, which are two of the best deals on the market? Or you mean like a 50-lb CRT?>>: I mean that LCD screens are still significantly more expensive than CRTs of the same size.
<<Sadly, that means any ID-10-T and his dog can make one. And they do.>>: So? It makes the price of drives cheap, even for quality ones.
<<In california>>: Good. Then I won't have to kill you.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, July 22, 2002 10:48:58 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Jan > aww! He does look a little like a Rugrats character, since you mention it. Cute!

Mooncat > I agree, people can fritter away their own money on whatever causes they wish. It's just sort of sad (especially when it's big corporate donations so they can get favorable mentions in the ongoing story). And it's also tiring to have full and complete coverage of that dumb little whale topping the news and being "breaking news" all the time instead of actually hearing some, I dunno, call me picky, news.

I mean, I should talk ... I don't donate to any causes anyway, being selfishly concerned about my own stuff ... and if I ever did feel in a position to do something like that I'd rather find a fund that provides grants to aspiring writers.

Interesting night at work. Smelling smoke. Checking the entire facility -- nada. Didn't smell like cig smoke and nothing was amiss in the kitchen, no blazing brownies this time. Then a gal from the downstairs sobering center came up and said they smelled it too, wanted to see if we were on fire. Checked again. Still zip. Suggested it might be being drawn in through the vents (we get a lot of weird exhaust fumes that way, not to mention WTO tear gas). She and a couple of her co-workers went out to look around, and I could see them from the window, at the end of the block staring into the distance. Now, I can't leave my post and there were no windows that would let me see the way they were looking (barring going into a resident's room, which we don't do). So I waited to see if the world was ending, and then turned on the morning news a few hours later when it hadn't. Turned out there was a big apt. fire that sent one man to the hospital with 2nd and 3rd degree burns, displaced more than a dozen people, and killed a cat.

And Joey talked to himself nonstop for 3 hours, just loud enough to hear but low enough not to understand. Probably practices because he knows it's annoying.

Just rambling on. I got up an hour earlier than planned and the old brain's still fogged in.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Monday, July 22, 2002 08:04:27 PM
IP: 65.239.47.189

test
Anonymous
Monday, July 22, 2002 07:25:05 PM
IP: 68.102.11.91

clickie clickie to see the next Rugrat star... He looks like Tommy, huh? *L*
The *thing* on his left eye of the glasses is the sticker that had not been removed yet. ;)
More pictures to come when I have the chance to scan them.

Coyote and Ravyn> awwww!!!! I'm really thrilled for the two of you! *group hug*
Jan - [<--- Zach!!]
Monday, July 22, 2002 05:43:21 PM
IP: 12.215.180.102

I feel so important now. This morning I was given
responsability for 134 things, now I am responsible
for 120 things. I will, from this day forth, be
the only person in my section dealing with the
incoming e-mails, YAY! I have a responsibility
that I can put on my P11.

Welcome back Ravyn, have fun with Coyote.

My Dad has been making me drive; I do not like
this. If anyone wants to hear my reasoning behind
my moral objection to cars, e-mail me. You will
have to wait a bit for my full answer; I misplaced
my numbers (deaths per year as proportion and
versus other causes of death, number of cars built
and thrown out in a year, amount of plastic and
metal and glass and rubber into the average
automobile and how that translates into strip
mines and asthma, how much total area paved roads
take up in Canada versus total area of Canada, how
much money is spent on car expenses like
maintenance and insurance and gas) at the end of
the school year; I had a cute little Freelance
presentation with graphs and cute pictures and
everything once. It is humorous how one five
minute English oral entitled 'Cars are Evil' and
the setting up of a recycling program can brand
you an environmentalist and opinionated, does
anyone else have that problem?

The preceding has been my attempt to find
something to talk about. If it is completely off
the wall then please disregard and kick me for
taking Imzadi's advice that you can always make a
large post if you try.

Green Baron: "I am shocked that you would be

taught something that obviously untrue" Blame the
Separatists; they promote the French at the expense
of all else. For a long while, the big thing they
wanted to do was to separate from Canada and join
the USA; hence, the linking of the USA to France.
lain: "bank" It totally sucks having only a
handful of 'mega banks'. What bank are you with?
I just left the Royal (after having been with them
for 19 years), have joined the CIBC (I used to
really like the anti-establishment Street Cents;
too bad they went pop), and am thinking of joining
Bank National (my Staff Association has a deal
with them). Totally juvenile that it was, I
really enjoyed walking into the Royal, waving my

first month's pay, and telling them that I had
been a loyal customer for 19 years and now that I
am going to have some real cash they are not going
to get a red cent because of all the sh!t they
have pulled on me over the years.

Leo: "helicopter" O.K., what is a guy doing being
picked up for work by a helicopter? Shades of
'Zanatos to the Rescue' Batman!

I like gerunds. Stephanie D and gerunds/sitting
in a tree/K-I-S-S-I-N-G! *giggle giggle*

Look at my 50-character line; next challenge:
block text!

Home Stephanie go must now... I am obviously no
longer making sense; that must derive from having
to answer stupid people's e-mails all day long.

Stephanie D - [SCurtin@icao.int]
Montréal, Québec, Canada
Monday, July 22, 2002 05:24:28 PM
IP: 192.206.28.62

Lynati: I'm *rarely* awake at 4AM. Ever.

Gside: <<if you want a nice large screen for a not exorbitant price?>>: You mean like the Cinema and Cinema HD, which are two of the best deals on the market? Or you mean like a 50-lb CRT? <<I'm sure floppies are so standardised because everyone's agreed on what features they have>>: Sadly, that means any ID-10-T and his dog can make one. And they do. <<By here, do you mean here in California, or here with you?>>: In california.

Warpmind: <>: I think the iMac is a great little computer. It's just not for me. Personally, if dual G4 processors came in that enclosure, I'd buy it. Function over form. Unless its fugly. Hence waiting till recently to buy an iBook.

Fire Storm: <<Um... no>>: So it was just a typo then?

Spacebabie: <<Gside woudn’t but I would>>: You have no shot.
Josh
Monday, July 22, 2002 05:24:13 PM
IP: 63.65.68.246

Yes, indeed, tomorrow is the day ... and I've been bustin' my butt to clean up the house all day today. So I'm very excited, very tired ... and also very hot. Doesn't help that we had thunderstorms earlier and now it's just sunny. Ah well. I have much better things happenin' tomorrow, anyway. :)

Ravyn: See ya tomorrow, beautiful. ;)
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Monday, July 22, 2002 05:15:38 PM
IP: 216.234.126.86

I'M BACK!!! :) Didja miss me?

Okay, I survived my two-week trip to New Jersey and everywhere else between there and Arizona! My brother is locked away at military school, and he *loves* it ... he says he's having fun just doing the in-processing stuff, and can't wait to get to the academics in a few weeks. Wow ... the Army was pretty quick at abducting my brother and replacing him with a well-behaved clone ... j/k :) Seriously, though, I'm proud of him. And Ft. Monmouth, NJ was lovely. :)

Gside and anybody else who knows New Jersey, I even got to see a bit of Rutgers, Asbury Park, and a lot more pretty green forest parts down in the middle of the state. But never in my life will I return to Jersey City ... see, we went to Liberty Park, NJ ... it's a really cool park that looks across the Hudson River at the Statue of Liberty and Manhattan ... that was SO COOL! :) But trying to find our way up to the Palisades Parkway to get to West Point, NY ... whoa. We got *so* lost in Jersey City, and I tell you, that is the *worst* place on earth to get lost. It's scary. Very scary.

West Point, New York, though ... was one of the coolest places I've ever been. If you ever get a chance, check the place out ... it's so beautiful, and awesome. :)

Of course, on my way to NJ, I got to stop off in Indianapolis and drool all over the speedway ... mmmm ... :) That was like heaven, just getting to see the track ... :) On my way back from NJ after dropping my brother off, I got to stop by North Carolina to see my way cool little cousin ... she's so much fun to hang out with. :)

So ... yeah, I've been just about everywhere in the past two weeks ... and it's not over yet. I leave early tomorrow morning for Michigan ... you guessed it. Coyote and I will be hangin' out for two weeks. :)

(Long Overdue) Replies!

Mandolin> Congrats on the new apartment!!! Have fun with the place. :)

Howdy, Raine-sama! Welcome to the insanity. :)

Wilek> How in the world do you end up finding such strange Ebay fun things? :)

Christine> Wow ... neat phobia link. :)

Lots of debates around that I'm not touching unless asked. ;)

Well, gotta run and pack up for my flight to Detroit tomorrow morning ... see y'all around!

Coyote> See you tomorrow!!!!!!
Ravyn
Monday, July 22, 2002 03:53:16 PM
IP: 150.135.118.15

Enters the CR and flops on the pile of gym mats

I need more sleep!!!

I need caffeine, Ahh Coffee
Brain no function coffee without.

Waits patiently for one of the Four Gods to post.
Wilek>>>If you had one of those what would you have named it?

SJ<<<So this is what happens when I encourage you to play with Ebay? ;)>>>I don’t know how he does it. I tried but I couldn’t find anything.<<<I'll stick to the live corpses, thank you. Er....well, you know what I mean.>>>How can a corpse be LIVE?<<<and he deserves some jail time and a fine and to get his ass kicked.…>>>I think we should play with this guy using those wonderful tools Wilek keeps finding on Ebay<<>>:::Evil Grin:::

Gside<<<You did seem to imply everyone.>>>You didn’t put your foot in your mouth.<<<Look, it's Ace and Gary.>>>LOL!!!!

Emambu<<<Gathering report in the works…>>>Hey ya cutie post more often.

Jan<<<Clear as mud to me!>>>Ugh Uberliberals. I’m glad McVeigh got what he deserved, as for the ass who tortured a kitten. I say let’s torture him. Besides Wilek’s goodies we make him stand on hot coals. Roast his Mr. Happy on the gril, pull out his toenails, make him listen to me sing…stuff like that.
<<<that had to have hurt!>>>That did for a while.<<>>I guess that’s why my nails are growing fast.

Green Baron<<<Do you forgive me? >>>Okay

Josh<<<Me. >>>Gside woudn’t but I would.

Firestorm<<<That was an attempt at sarcasm,>>>A pretty pathetic attempt.<<<Um…no.>>>We knew what you where thinking with.

“We played at Beauty pageants with Paris of Troy”
“We had a fine round of blind man’s bluff with Perseus when we were the gray ones, although having just one eye to go around strikes me as rather stingy dealings.”
“Babd, Maeve and the Morrigan”
“Artemis Cynthia and Hectate.”
“Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness.”
“Larry, Moe and Curly Joe.”
“Hey who said that?”~ Muffy Buffy and Snuffy aka The Three. Harpy High
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Monday, July 22, 2002 11:10:49 AM
IP: 67.24.17.141

IEEEEE, this is my first time hiya ppl hi lain whats going on? hope you got you esay finished lain see you at noon buddy!
Azrele - [torrent_of_words@hotmail.com]
Monday, July 22, 2002 09:40:14 AM
IP: 198.96.83.69

Um... no.
Fire Storm
Monday, July 22, 2002 08:57:07 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

Warpmind: <Dude, don't you have sympathy for cute, fluffy, helpless animals?>
Absolutely! I love animals, and while cats may sometimes annoy me, I don't want to see any of them get hurt.
That was an attempt at sarcasm, but it didn't go too well.
Now I just laugh at peoples reactions to it.
Fire Storm
Monday, July 22, 2002 08:56:43 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

*Warpmind strides in, looking slightly... frayed.*
Hi, gang. With my sistere and her boyfriend here for a couple weeks, getting the time to post here has been kinda difficult... :p

Okay, time for the Big Haul... catching up to some extent, I guess...

Leo: Nothing personal; you just bumped me outta the top ten last week. Note the wink. ;)

Gside: Sorry; been fresh out of marmosets for the past months. Might get some new in next week, though, but don't count on it...

Josh: Yeah, yeah, so you're not upset about the iMac bashing. *Snort* I guess you're a lot like me - I actually *like* having a computer that looks like a dull, grayish box, rather than something that looks like a VW New Beetle with transparent side panels... :p

Oooh, personality tests... I'm the Action Hero Indiana Jones. Too bad I wore out both my bullwhips... (Don't ask. Just. Don't. Ask.)

Lessee... Still flareups about Sesame Street... Lain's getting bashed - AGAIN - regarding American patriotism... And thus Status Quo is maintained... ;P

Wilek: Um, actually, socialism, in its most effective form, isn't as bad as you try to paint it. Norway is, in fact, highly socialistic; more so than most other countries. This can be seen from the steep taxes, and the fact that we have one of the best social security systems in the world... I *think* you're thinking of communism, not socialism... 'Course, IMO, the best way to run the world would be a path between socialism and capitalism - have the governing body run things like hospitals and medical care, to ensure a just dispersal of resources, while ordinary folks can be responsible for the manufacturing industries etc...

...And now Fire Storm sticks his head out with a big bullseye painted on it... Dude, don't you have sympathy for cute, fluffy, helpless animals? Killing cats is one thing; TORTURING them is another! (I.e. around here, the former is acceptable, even necessary at times; the latter is not...)

Christine: Love the cover for Elflore 2. And that Disney Villain link... I'm Captain Hook! :p I feel insulted! ;) Oh, and regarding the nutball with the sword - I have one word for you: Broomstick. };)

Well, that about sums up the post... Click my name for a funny comic - I know people like that. BOTH kinds of people as seen in the strip. :)
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmind@hotmail.com]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Monday, July 22, 2002 08:02:20 AM
IP: 193.217.179.94

TWO THOUSAND FIFTY-SEVEN WORDS BABY!

the requirements say 2000. yay! I AM FINISHED!!! HUZZAH FOR ME!!!

*stares longlingly at bed and sighs*

now i get to go to kinkos and print.. then school, meet my friend for a movie and then go out to a barbeque. i should be niiiice and TOTALLY WIPED OUT for tonight..

*yawns expansively and goes hunting for caffiene*
lain
Monday, July 22, 2002 07:01:04 AM
IP: 65.92.88.198

only.. a few.. hundred.. more.. words.. to go...

"It is this argument which is focal to Percy's discourse of human nature. Having labeled everything else in its world so neatly and in such a ritual, organized fashion, the self is at a loss to know where it belongs and feels like an outcast in the very world which it has created. He argues that because the human self has excluded itself semiotically from its own world, it is constantly trying to find a sign identification with which it might cover itself. The self may try to forget about itself, continually attempt re-inventions of itself, be envious of other selves, depressed, lonely and a whole host of other negative states which Percy identifies as being symptomatic of the self realizing its own exile from its perfect world."

.. im not even sure if that would make any sense.. even if it WASNT nearly 6am.. and i HADNT been up all night..

*bleeeeeerch*

:P

its getting light out..

my pain will soon be ended.. after those few hundred more words....

*drags self off*
lain
Monday, July 22, 2002 05:43:41 AM
IP: 65.92.88.125

Jan> <<sometimes I probably could be called crotchy>>: If you want cratchy, Bert's crotchy.

Christine> <<how much good that money could have done for needy kids in the area, etc., but people seem much more willing to give when it's for a cause like this>>: "Remember when they had that story about child abuse? How many letters did they get over that?" "About four." "And what about that story about animal abuse, how many did that get?" "Uh... forty" "...And therefore people are scum. Pay up, JM." "Did it even get four? Maybe I'm thinking of the badmitton story." -Mac Hall
<<now they want to gas/shoot/whatever the geese>>: Foie Gras.

Imzadi> <<iMacs only weigh 21 lbs>>: And if you want a nice large screen for a not exorbitant price?
<<Depending on the formatting, it cacn still be very difficult to extract the text>>: But it often comes in chunks.
<<So if it ain't baroque, it don't need fixing?>>: Pretty much. Though it probably wouldn't have a recovery feature. But then it probably wouldn't crash anything by itself, so you wouldn't need it as much.
<<fewer things they have to worry about drivers for>>: By now I'm sure floppies are so standardised because everyone's agreed on what features they have.
<<You lost her>>: Right, but she can always ask for clarification.
<<As I recall, Apple IIe's didn't have hard drives. Everything was run off the disks>>: I was surprised when we got a hard drive (Vulcan, I belive) for the IIGS.
<<Bah. Porn is better>>: I like porn. Found a couple good sites recently, too. Foreign language, though. At least they try to translate the web pages.
<<Sometimes if you open the file in a regular text editor you can delete all the funky micro$haft-only characters and be left with the meat of your document>>: But I was trying to explain why all those characters are in there. And there ar funky characters in other companies' formats, too. .ps, .pdf, TeX, troff, and whatnot.
<<She's still here>>: By here, do you mean here in California, or here with you?

Lynati> <>: Actually, he's been busy.

Do you like John Williams? I like John Williams. The mp3 is the Star Wars Cantina music.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, July 21, 2002 11:52:35 PM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Josh: you usually like to call "nein" in the top ten. I should have known it was too early for you to be awake tho.

eh, the US is a funny place. A friend of mine is risking possible jail-time becasue he forgot to tell people that he moved. Something about them trying to claim it is unemployment fraud. *makes a face*
Lynati
Sunday, July 21, 2002 09:40:17 PM
IP: 141.156.164.68

oops, forgot

(By the way) This happened in James City County, just a few miles from where this year's gathering was held.
Leo
Sunday, July 21, 2002 09:27:35 PM
IP: 172.164.156.225

This articke and it's follow-up were in our local newspaper. Basically, some redneck saw a helicopter land in the vacant lot next door to his house. The helicopter picked up a man who ran for the helicopter carrying a black box. "Obviously" he thought they were terrorists so he got his *AR-15* and opened fire at the helicopter.

[I put both articles on my site 'cause they will have been removed from "Daily Press" by tomowwow. Hope I don't get sued :)]
Leo - [<-click]
Yorktown, Va
Sunday, July 21, 2002 09:25:11 PM
IP: 172.164.156.225

Howdy folks.

Been a while. Mostly just work in test prep classes/practice exams. Saw MIIB yesterday. Not so great, but probably worth the price of a ticket. Just some classic hollywood entertainment.

I've come to the conclusion that only a Greek Phalanx is more blantantly homoerotic than Wrestling.

Here's the deal with the orca. The organization that help it out probably benefited from both charity and government dollars. The government dollars, once they get to the organization, can be spent as the organization sees fit. It "research", and the organization likely learned a great deal from its efforts. The government is obligated to protect endangered species. We have laws that say so. We can't spend all our money on feeding the homeless, sadly.

Patrick: <<attempting to carry that insanely huge box containing your new PC out of Best Buy>>: iMacs only weigh 21 lbs 8-)

Gside: <<Sure it wasn't just buried under a bunch of formating statements?>>: Depending on the formatting, it cacn still be very difficult to extract the text. <<The more baroque text editors tend to put in funky formatting for no reason at all>>: So if it ain't baroque, it don't need fixing? ;-) <<Apple decided that floppies were completely obsolete and stopped having them standard on their machines>>: One less thing to worry about. I'm really starting to wonder about Apple's other motives. The more things they decide are "obsolete", the fewer things they have to worry about drivers for. <<A pure text editor, when it looks at a file, takes each byte and asks "what character does this byte represent?" and outputs it to screen>>: You lost her.

Jan: <<crotchy>>: Er... <<Ornithophobia>>: You're afraid of birds? I'm just afraid of birdshit. Expecially after I get my car washed. <<it's wise to know when to put down the shovel>>: Unless you want a bigger hole. <<that came with a shoebox full of floppy disks>>: As I recall, Apple IIe's didn't have hard drives. Everything was run off the disks. <<He thought he should quit his job now... yeah right - nice try buddy, but no cigar. *L*>>: Sounds like a stunt I'd try and pull. <>: Wouldn't it be smarter to convert than to rebuild? <<then you are a cold hearted murderer yourself if you support the death penalty>>: LOL. Stop turning hippy on us!

Spacebabie: <<So who wouldn’t you want to see nekkid?>>: Me.

Niamhgold: <<why men designed high-heels I'll never know>>: No one makes you wear them. Certainly no one makes you *walk* in them. <<every Disney cartoon that has paired up two male characters into a "team">>: An unambiguously gay duo...except that one always gets the girl. <<It's cartharsis for the sexually frustrated of us, as well>>: Bah. Porn is better. <<a room with yellow wallpaper>>: By itself, that explains a LOT.

Lain: <<if i knew what that meant.. i might be able to answer you>>: Sometimes if you open the file in a regular text editor you can delete all the funky micro$haft-only characters and be left with the meat of your document.

SJ: <<exactly why are people calling for this guy's death?>>: Because kittens are cute and cuddly. You can be assured no one would care if he was throwing cockroaches on the grill.

Jaden: <<did you like California>>: She's still here.

Lynati: <<Josh>>: Yes?

Okay, out for the day.

Look at me! I'm talking to treif!
-Uncle George, Duckman

Josh "Imzadi" Wurzel - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
San Jose, CA, US of A
Sunday, July 21, 2002 09:11:20 PM
IP: 207.214.212.20

Christine - baby orca, there is a puzzler. Was it tax money or donations that got him moved? I'm not familiar with the details of the incident.

If it's donations, then heck, people should be able to waste or grace their money on what they choose to. If it was tax money, then I think the wee whale might have been better slain and it's meat and by products used for the betterment of the community.

Geese. *blinks* What exactly is the problem with geese? Have a very large goose dinner. If relocating has been tried, and does not work, then there is no other course but to cull the numbers quickly and painlessly, and farm the meat out to charity. Geese are not endangered animals, and they are rather tasty. Kill them and freeze them for the charity food banks. Christmas and Thanksgiving shouldn't be the only times of year we think of the poor and in need, food wise.

Mind, when I call for the death of a kitten torturer, it's because the act was one of torture for amusement. I would have disliked him if he wanted to simply kill and eat the little puss, but I understand the basic right to kill an animal to eat. I wouldn't call for the death of a person who hunted cats without the intention of torture, and meant only to eat their catch. It would just make me feel *bleh*, though, and maybe that the person might need pyschiatric help.

It's not the rights of the kitten over the human that I'm supporting, but the rights of any living thing to not be so horribly tortured for amusement. A person who will, for amusement, deliberately torture a creature by placing it alive into burning hot coals is a very sick and dangerous factor. Such a factor should not be allowed to roam freely where it can harm others in this manner. If it were an animal, we'd put it down immediately as too vicious to live. We should do the same for humans who engage in such actions. As much for the good of fellow humans as any animal.

Would anyone want this guy living next door to someone who has small children? Imagine him as your neighbor. Would you feel safe? If you have pets, or children, or other persons who might be vulnerable/handicapped living in your area?

Torturing small animals is a sign of danger. I think it's not a point of the animal having rights over the human, but that the human has just proven himself to be an unstable and mortal danger to living things around him.

Just my soap box of the day.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, July 21, 2002 08:14:36 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Animals vs. People > there's been a lot of hoopla in this neck of the woods lately about an orphaned orca and the plight of geese. The former, named Springer, benefitted from approx. 350,000 dollars' worth of care and help to return her to her pod. Quite a few people have written to the papers about how much good that money could have done for needy kids in the area, etc., but people seem much more willing to give when it's for a cause like this. The geese, on the other hand, have been the center of attention because there's a big push to get rid of them (they foul the waters and the parks, upset the local ecosystem, etc.) but trapping and other attempts at relocation haven't worked so now they want to gas/shoot/whatever the geese. Again, letters to the paper screaming about both sides. Everyone gets so worked up about the rights of animals and never mind the rights of people. It's a sorry thing to see.

Then again, I'm tempted to write angry letters to the paper myself when some nutball brings all of downtown to a standstill for +6 hours waving a sword, while the police fiddle and faddle instead of rushing him with a mattress or pasting him with a fire hose (because of course that would be mean). How did I end up in my line of work? Or is it that 12 years in this line of work did this to me? I think it's the latter.

Site update > see the cover for ElfLore II, click or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Sunday, July 21, 2002 04:09:24 PM
IP: 65.239.13.131

Hello all. I'm back in Germany. The flight woudl have been better if I didn't catch a nasty summer cold as soon as I returned.

Airline lost one suitcase, but I got it back earlier today. Not much else going on, though.

Tommorrow I return to work. Oh joy. Well, its been three weeks.

Gabriel> <<A better question is, is WHO is calling for his death?>> Guilty!! It's more of an impulsive action, though guys like that make me sick. People who torment innocent animals (and people) are in a seperate category of monster from Timothy McVeigh. McVeigh's execution was enforced. That is what the law deemed. I never spoke against (or for) McVeigh's execution.

SJ> <<I mean, sure, it was incredibly horrible and sadistic, and he deserves some jail time and a fine and to get his ass kicked....

But it was a f***ing CAT.

He does this to a human being, THEN I will call for his death.>>

That kind of scum may do that and worse to a human. If he has a daughter, she'd better start carrying a knife. Perhaps I was too hasty to want him dead, but he is still human excrement and unfit to be a father.

Mooncat> He looks like someone who would torture a baby animal (or a baby human if he could). He also looks liek soemone who would rape his daughter or sister. They should watch shit like that. He oughta be locked up with catlovers :)

Niamhgold> <<Well, let's just say that I was a morbid little kid. *Then* my parents went and gave me crayons and a room with yellow wallpaper. 'Nuff said ;)>> I was a pre-teen when I grew morbid.

Spacebabie> Well, I used Yahoo IM to try and see if you were on. I doubt I could actually visit you as I was only there 2.5 days. I am sorry I neglected you. Do you forgive me? ::hugs::

Jan> No cancer is good news. You won't know the Cancer-carrying muppet on Sesame Street :)

DPH> <<Don't tell me you believe in playing real low wages to people in an area where jobs are scarce.>> Low wages are an issue to debate. I'd pay them at subsistence level and then some. Plus the more they make, the more they'd consume and it woudl only increase productivity, but if the minimum wage in Mexico is 3.00 per day and they crossed the border and made 4.00 per day, plus a room in a tenement and a decent meal, I'm improving their standard of living.

<<I remember a talk show recently was talking about that in Arkansas, it's taboo (the situation is getting less taboo) for a white man and a black woman or a black man and a white women to get married, but there is no problem with a white man marrying an Asian woman. Things that point out hyprocrisy should be encouraged.>>

It's similar in Louisiana. Though it seems blacks don't want their kids dating whites either, so its not one-sided. The taboo will die out as the bigots die out.

Stephanie> Well, I am shocked that you woudl be taught soemthing that obviously untrue. Normally, bias is about stuff that isn't as objective. I do agree that for some time, there was a desire for Revolution as the peasants were revolting and they couldn't afford soap (not that they use it now) :)

My own feelings are affected by having aristocratic French ancestors, but the Revolution failed as soon as the leaders became just as bad as the nobles, and then Napoleon took over...followed by King Louis XVI's brother, reinstalled by the English. I think it was after Louis Napoleon that France had its third Republic (or was it second).

Imzadi> <<And if he is influencing this in any way, you'll be able to tell by the subtle, totally un-PC jokes that come up.>> I can't wait for those :D

Kaioto> I think Hyena was more likely to do that, as Jackal is a little less insane and wouldn't kill innocents for kicks. He'd do it for money.

Stephanie> <<'Welfare Capitalism' is Moderate Socialism that does not sound like Communism (see Wilek's post).>> I guess I still see it as a form of capitalism, because it seems more a ocncern about basic welfare than equality of outcome. I guess you could consider anything short of laissez-faire capitalism to be socialist or anything short of admitted socialism to be capitalist. Keynesianism is watered-down capitalism, but some regard it as socialism. FDR has been creidetd as a socialist and keeping America safe for capitalism, so some of it falls under opinion or a capitalist/socialist scale.

<<“affection for the Ontario or Canadian flag” I have great affection for the Canadian flag, I also have great affection for my family’s coat-of-arms; however, I (and lain too perhaps) do not understand when Americans talk about their flag like it is literally a bullet-proof vest (that is how it sounds to us). Our flags/coats-of arms are just symbols like the icons on my desktop.>> Well, I don't see it on the level of an image of Mary or a crucifix, but I put the falg above an icon and my coat of arms I put above my flag. I forgot about that example an dbeing a stereotypical scot, I am very fond of my coat-of-arms :)

Now off to sleep.
GreenBaron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Hanau
Sunday, July 21, 2002 04:08:52 PM
IP: 62.104.212.74

opps, I meant Gaygoyle, not Jan -- re: "who is asking for his death"

Mooncat
>^,,^<
MC
Sunday, July 21, 2002 04:07:36 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

Jan - "who is calling for his death" --

Me, me, me, meeeee!!! I think the kitten killer should die. I'm all for putting to death anyone who horribly tortures (such as burning them alive by stuffing them into a bed of hot coals) animals for amusement. The sickness of such people who can do such a thing will lead them to more and greater harm if they are not stopped. I think death would be an excellent way to stop them.

As for bomb boy, yeah, I think he needs to be put down too. His actions of deliberate mayhem cost a great many lives, including innocent tiny children. There is no doubt that he did it, and he has shown no sign of remorse. He's a waste of space. I say put him to death and quit spending tax payers' money feeding and clothing and amusing him.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Sunday, July 21, 2002 04:02:27 PM
IP: 68.102.1.42

cassandra and silverbolt>> <<You're all such great authors and artists, and i'm glad you took the time to get this far>> thats a refreshing change.. yeah.. you guys can come back and post more often :D
lain
Sunday, July 21, 2002 02:27:55 PM
IP: 65.92.90.184

Cassandra > You got that right! They certainly are! I just hope they do a season 4!
Silverbolt2012
Sunday, July 21, 2002 01:36:49 PM
IP: 62.7.95.253

i just wanted to say that i love what you've done with the Gargoyles series. I think you've kept Greg Weisman's creation true to its form, and i've enjoyed reading every episode. Naturally, i hope to read more on this sight and i hope you haven't given up on it. That would be like the end of a really good dream; Inevitable, but still disappointing. You're all such great authors and artists, and i'm glad you took the time to get this far.

A very big fan,
Cassandra
casey T. - [Ladysherlock92@rcn.com]
mahopac, N.Y., U.S.A.
Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:10:30 PM
IP: 209.122.244.33

SJ> <<but exactly why are people calling for this guy's death?>>
A better question is, is WHO is calling for his death?

Jan> <<Clear as mud to me!>>
That's probably because that's not happening! ;).
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Sunday, July 21, 2002 11:49:16 AM
IP: 24.219.165.75

SJ> <<Kitten Guy: Okay, pardon me for having a bit of a dissenting opinion, but exactly why are people calling for this guy's death? >>
Because it's ok to call for the death of a human being if they have tortured an animal - but if someone does something to anyone else... say oh... blow up a building killing hundreds of adults and children in the middle of Oklahoma City and then he taunts the survivors and their families from prison... then if you execute him according to the law of the state - then you are a cold hearted murderer yourself if you support the death penalty.
Clear as mud to me!

Jen> didn't mean to ignore you earlier... thanks for the correction between crotchy and crotchety *L*
I didn't see your post before I posted my correction. Then again, sometimes I probably could be called crotchy ;)

Spacebabie> ack! the acrylic punched thru to your real nail? *shudders* that had to have hurt! I used to wear acrylics, but my real nails were growing too fast so I stopped using them. I think having naturally wavy/curly hair enhances nail growth... or maybe it's just a coincidence that I have strong fingernails that grow quickly AND the natural wave/curl in my hair. *shrugs* dunno.

Wilek> I don't know which is scarier... that you actually find these items on Ebay or that the price for that is around $65! *L*

Crotchety Jan
Sunday, July 21, 2002 10:50:57 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

TOP 10?
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, July 21, 2002 10:14:26 AM
IP: 204.94.193.68

Love Potion number Nine?
Spacebabie
Sunday, July 21, 2002 09:32:21 AM
IP: 67.24.17.41

Eight.

...Josh?
Lynati
Sunday, July 21, 2002 07:47:16 AM
IP: 141.156.162.222

7th! yippeee!!
Jan
Sunday, July 21, 2002 07:35:25 AM
IP: 12.215.180.102

6th!
Leo
Sunday, July 21, 2002 06:11:57 AM
IP: 172.153.114.7

Top Ten!

Gathering report in the works...

---Emambu
Emambu
Sunday, July 21, 2002 02:37:20 AM
IP: 68.80.238.19

4th.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, July 21, 2002 02:12:27 AM
IP: 68.38.244.145

Wow, does that make me 3rd? I'm never around when this happens.
Christine
Sunday, July 21, 2002 01:22:52 AM
IP: 65.239.13.250

SECOND!
Fire Storm and Lady Mystic
Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:57:20 AM
IP: 216.254.103.139

FIRST!? AGAIN?!?!

WHEEEEEEE!!!!!!
lain
Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:54:03 AM
IP: 65.92.88.127