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Imzadi> <>: Sounds like the same split we have on Rutgers, except for Livingston to the northeast.
<<And if that doesn't put her to sleep, nothing will>>: Its origin was as a bedtime story.
<<no clue on how they're used/implemented/etc>>: Don't let the complicated examples phase you too much. In your own programming, you probably won't need to go beyond one pointer level.
<<Uncultured>>: Yes, but that's old news.
<<What kind of job can you get with no ambition and an absolute refusal to do physical labor?>>: Not sure, but I'm trying to find it.

Dezi> <<escape cabins in b-1 planes. Shuttles need that>>: When things go wrong in space, they can go wrong very fast. And how would you pad it for a possible hard landing?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Sunday, February 2, 2003 12:32:05 AM
IP: 198.151.130.245

Thomas> <<What makes it even more tragic was that they were on their way back.>>
No, it'd be more tragic if they'd been taking off. If they'd been given the choice between dying before they got a chance to do the job they'd been sent up there to do, and dying after they had finished, they would have chosen to do their jobs first. Furthermore, four of the people on board had never been in space before. At least they got to go up once before they died.

DPH> <<This sounds stupid, but shouldn't the space shuttles normally be under extremely tight security?>>
They are.

silvadel> <<There is no on the face legitimate real reason why we do not have a permanent settlement on the moon by now. The only reason I can see is that we dont want to.>>
I don't want a settlement on the moon unless it's on the other side. People screw up the scenery enough here; the last thing we need is people screwing up the scenery in space, too. :P

Josh> <<you found me out! I'm going to abscond with your characters and do with them what I will!>>
Honestly, what could you possibly do with them that Christine hasn't already done herself? :P

<>
With little astrisks and ampersands... ;)

<<Very true. What kind of job can you get with no ambition and an absolute refusal to do physical labor?>>
Hmmm... Hopefully something involving food... I know, a food taster. You know, check the food for poison... Maybe I should get some sleep.

<<That's what we do to cats.>>
Your point? (You use water balloons on cats? Cool.)
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:51:22 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Ok, last one, following with archwolf's line- does anyone remember the show The Cape? Their story lines tended to parallel ongoing space stuff (with twists of course) but they did have an ep where one shuttle's heat shield was cracked and they did fire up disc. and did a rescue/repair. that one was a two-parter
Dezi
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:11:56 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

Oh yeah, and as for fall-out damage, they were saying that an apartment caught on fire and burned, possibly started by falling debris.
Dezi
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:09:43 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

DHP> I'm not sure they would even have been aware of the damage, necessarily. Even if they were, NASA has stated that there is no way for the astronauts to have repaired the tile dmage. At best, they would have had to continue to orbit while NASA fired up Discovery for a rescue mission, then either remote pilot or flat out abandon Columbia.

Mec> Now, the reoprt i heard said that the impact on the leading edge of the orbiter's wing was non-damaging. Playbacks of the collision indicate that it was soft insulation that hit the craft. Don't be fooled. Those orbeiters come back dinged, scratched, scored and pockmarcked from every mission. This kind of damage...probably a fluke..just the right hit in just the right place in just the right way. All I can hope is that they were dead before they realized what was going on. If you gotta go in a catastrophy, you should go fast, you know?

Shade and Sweet Water.
Archwolf
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:09:39 PM
IP: 64.244.172.28

Holy sh!t !
Man o man o man.
Of course the one morning that I don't watch the news before going to work- I found out about it when the jewelry department lady came in. Nearly made me sick.
I then spent about the next two hours explaining to a co-worker who was born post 1-28-86 the impact and the events of the challeger. Let's just say she's a little flighty.
"So, uh, is this like a big deal?" *sigh*
The lack of access to the news drove me nuts though. Just third-hand stories from customers. blah.
As to the cause-theories- My dad told me something about the landing tires blowing. Is this confirmed, or just another "guess what I heard" or if its true does it have any bearing? Shoot, I'm just trying to get caught up.
Being born in late 1981, I have never known a world until now that Columbia didn't exist. Just a thought to put time into perspective. Same goes with REM being a band or John Lennon being dead.
CNN just did some brief headlines on North Carolinian plants blowing up and anthrax investigations and such.
Now they're at the National Air and Space Museum...On a slightly positive note: those journalists in S. America have been freed. :)

Leo: <Iraq: calles shuttle disaster "God's Revenge" >:( > While I'm against the war, I do hope a piece of "God's Revenge" falls out of the sky and pops a hole through a certain Iraqi's skull.
<Endevor(or is it oUr)> Endeavour or Endeavor- I think it was named after Captain Cook's ship, so which ever way that one is spelled.
Oh yeah, and Evil Dezi crawls out from under the couch and snarls at the stupid Ebay sellers, then goes away again.

Silvadel: <Space will probably never be "safe." Even when we get to the point where people take consumer flights, it will never be as "safe" as driving to work(which really isnt all that safe) or boarding a plane.> Nothing is safe, not even walking down the street. I hope America doesn't get all agoraphobic (did I get the right one?) on space or anything remotely risky.

DPH: < How many plans for escape will you have in place> Another co-worker told me about the escape cabins in b-1 planes. Shuttles need that. Like they said on the History Channel that the cabin of the Challenger stayed pretty much whole until it smacked into the ocean. Just add a 'chute.

Hyperion: Although not counting today (because I don't know the altitude of the explosion) America has not lost an Astronaut in space. Apollo One was on the ground, and Challenger's altitude wasnt high enough to be counted in "space". The Russians lost lots of guys. I'd rather loose a ship than people, although a ship full of people just sucks.
<Whatever happened to the X-31 program...the one with the new areospike engines that was supposed to replace the Shuttle? > Wasn't Buzz Aldrin getting in on that or something? Or maybe that was more like commercial space travel.
______________________________________________________

My little sister is five. I was about her age when Challenger blew. I told her that today (she knew about it only as something about martians on a spaceship, although she did draw a "space shuttle" for no apparent reason about a month ago-we still have no idea how she knew what that was). Anyway. I told her not to forget it 'cause in 16 years it will be something to have remembered. She promised, and I think she means it. I'm also the only person my age that I know that remembers the earthquake that hit nw. Illinois when I was 4 or 5. That, Challenger, this, living in Chicago on Sept. 11, and that blurb in the Bible-code book that says that the "big one" will hit California in 2010 are the things I will remember for the rest of my life. I also have a life goal of seeing a lift-off, so I hope this doesn't end the program.

Now, to play the cynic, if it does turn out to be that piece that hit the wing during lift off (doomed from the beginning, as CNN just said) how many law suits will abound?

Sleepy time,
Later
Dezi

Dezi
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:08:19 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

P.S. click my name for the article
Mecord
Saturday, February 1, 2003 09:54:35 PM
IP: 12.255.15.121

Shuttle update. It appears the left wing took a hit by flying debri from the ET (external tank). They think it a good possibility that this caused the damage responsible for the accident. It seems Archwolf was just about right.

I would like to correct one think the report gets wrong. The Challenger accident was caused by a jet of errant flame from the SRB (Solid Rocket Booster) that burned a hole into and ignited the ET. The feul tank itself was not the cause of the accident.
Mecord
Saturday, February 1, 2003 09:53:46 PM
IP: 12.255.15.121

The following was written by Jordin Kare, from his signature song, "Fire in the Sky". The second verse below applies to Challenger, but it echoes again now. (This is from memory, so it may not be quite as written. It's close.)

Then, two decades from Gaugarin, twenty years to the day, Came a shuttle named Columbia to open up the way. And they said she's just a truck, but she's a truck that's aiming high! Hear her big engines burn, see her fire in the sky.

But the gods do not give lightly of the powers they have made, And with Challenger and Seven, once again the price is paid. Though a nation saw her falling, all the world could only cry As they passed from us to glory, riding fire in the sky.

Anonymous
Saturday, February 1, 2003 09:08:17 PM
IP: 209.240.198.61

Thoughts on the shuttle tragedy:

Besides giving me some new ideas for a screenplay ... morbid I know, but I wrote my last one from inspiration derived after 9/11.

Cause of the accident is probably going to be found to be age-induced fatigue of critical structural components. Columbia has been very consistently in service, retrofits and all, since 1981. Hell, I remember as a little kid watching the first Columbia launch, and all the news coverage around the technological advances that were contained in the new space shuttle. I also recall that the Soviet space program launched *their* first shuttle, based loosely on the original Grumman design, about three months before Discovery re-booted the space program after the Challenger disaster. I'm not sure if the Soyuz crafts are those shuttles or not ... I hear about them but I've never seen any technical data on them.

This marks only the second non-liftoff related disaster to occur in the space program's manned missions, but the first to cost lives (the other one being Apollo 13).

I believe that those who speculate the Shuttle 2 program is going to be accelerated as a direct result of this are probably going to be correct in the long run ... the current shuttles are of an obsolete design that should have been put into mothballs in the late '90s. I'm not sure what anyone was thinking about these crafts ... a space shuttle is *not* a garage-kept '65 Mustang, it damn sure doesn't age gracefully.

**sighs deeply** Just a horrible day.
Coyote the Bando
Algonac, Michigan
Saturday, February 1, 2003 08:54:01 PM
IP: 66.103.234.103

I agree; this was a terrible event. The one bright side to it all is that nobody down on the ground was hit by the falling debris, last I heard on the news (although there was the dentist who wound up getting a pieceof it unexpectedly in his office). But I'm still sorry to hear about what happened to the astronauts.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, February 1, 2003 06:34:20 PM
IP: 63.208.42.96

I cannot think of anything to say. Truly an awful, horrid event. What makes it even more tragic was that they were on their way back.

I remember the Challenger from what I heard. I didn't actually see it.

Gabriel> That is awful, and quite disturbing. I was about tof insih work when my NCO mentioned that NASA lost contact with the shuttle and someone claimed they heard an explosion.

Hyperion> I too hope we can find better ways to test it, though to lose lives, and frankly these guys are some of the best and the brightest, too.

Maybe we should cool the exploration for a time, until we can find ways to avoid these kind of tragedies. I do agree there is plenty left to explore out there, and so much to learn.

Patrick Toman> <<The conspiracy theorists are already getting to work, though... I've already heard at least one person saying it HAS to be terrorism (even though the White House says it's highly unlikely) simply because there was an Israeli astronaut on board and debris has landed in Palestine, Texas.>> That is a coincidence, though I suspect the Palestinians especially, as well as the rest of the Arab world will celebrate this tragedy.

Niamhgold> <<And let's hope the off-sided speculation on the crewmember from Israel ends soon.>> I imagien it will, except for all the degenerates who will celebrate over it.

Col. Ramon was a good man and a good pilot. He as well as the others shall all be missed. Requiest in pacem.

Leo> <<I'm sure Sharon will want to blame terrorists or sabbotage.>> I'll give Sharon the benefit of the doubt. Maybe even Arafat will shed a crocodile tear while secretly ordering fatah and hamas to claim responsibility.

Niamhgold> Well, what if I call you milady?

<<"If this isn't evil, than evil doesn't exist." Yet another boring night at the print lab spent reviewing notes from the Presidential speech ;)>> I'll give him credit on that. I don't like his expansion of medicare or increasing government spending by 4%, and I think he should remove a few cabinet level Offices, but I do support regime change (disarmamemt is not enough, for me).

Greg X> <<What with words like 'Hitlerism', 'penninSHula' and of course our fave 'nucular'>> Now, Bush should know better than to get speaking tips from Jimmy Carter.

DPH> <<My problem is believing even half of the people at the bottom were pure when the top was mostly corrupted.>> Judge not, lest ye be judged. Besides, what you believ and what I believe are quite different from waht God believs.

Bud-Clare>

<<So? I can't be a bitch, too? I don't see the contradiction.>> I guess I don't see you as one, or I've met people who are much worse.

<<You know, it occurs to me... if Sadaam had any brain at all, he would have told at least a handful of people to vote against him. Does he even know the meaning of credibility?>> I doubt he cares. He's teh Godfather of Iraq, after all.

<<Hey, there's nothing wrong with a little lack of ambition. :P>> Well, you're not my wife nor of Clan Forsyth, so it won't bother me if you are ambitious or not.

<<Both, actually. And apathy is a vicious circle.>>
You can change that.

<<That's (one of the reasons) why I love her. :)>>
Plus she's a cute little fuzz ball, and smart enough not to pick a fight with bigger animals.

Imzadi> <<Only if they're in charge of the major war.>> True, though I didn't know if they needed an excuse. Just think of the propaganda moment if France had the fortitude to invade and occuppy Germany when they were militarizing the Rhineland, but that would be a pre-emptive strike.

<<Surely such a child would not be French.>> Good for the child :)

<<So does Israel, and they're in a war every day.>> Well, if their neighbors weren't so dead set on killing them all, they probably wouldn't need to have cosncription. I remember some Plaestinian village mayor actually suggested his peopel would be betetr off under Israeli rule than the PLO's, and I forgot how Arafat had him killed.

<<Only an idiot could create a 35 billion dollar deficit in this state.>> I don't think Louisiana was ever run that badly.

<> They also take care of them. Most American cars that old are pretty much in a lawn next to a Mississippi trailer.

Besides, those old German cars are good for a po' soldier who needs to get around, but woudl fail inspection to get sent to the US.

<<Hitler?>> Arafat isn't that different from Hitler, especially since I think Mein Kampf is one of his favorite books. Well, Hitler did create the Autobanh and reduced unemployment dramatically, and Arafat has accomplished neither for the Palestinians, but Arafat has amanged to earn a personal fortune of $2.3 billion as a dedicated terrorist. Scary thing is that there are even worse men than Arafat that will lead the PA one day.

<<It depends on what area. Us techies are rapidly moving towards living in a police state, thanks to Ashcroft, DMCA, and Microsoft.>> I imagine Microsoft will get its fall, like IBM did. I imagien a lot of Ashcroft's work wil come undone in later decades, but consdiering that the New Deal is not entirely dismantled, it may take a few centuries.

<<Except without the possibility of getting laid. Ever>> Well, if people write fanfic to get sex, they are being delusional, unless they are already married.

<> It amy happen, especialy if John Edwards become President. I'm juts greatful, tubbos are unable to sue McDonald's, because they don't watch what they eat. I guess tehy can alsways start smoking so they can extort the tobacco companies (I consider tobacco companies pretty scuzzy, but I consider the lawsuits worse).

<<And finally, God will show us that he is just, and that stupidity will be punished!>> Nah! I just think such people are fodder,a nd tehy annoy me with their idiocy. They get promoted and ask why their pay went up.

Christine> <<YES, it's hypocritical to write fanfic and then jealously guard our own fanfic characters. So what? Tara, Patrick, and plenty of others have made very good points. It's not a matter of legality by a long chalk. It's a matter of courtesy.>> That's how I put it an this Cavalier rather values courtesy. Besides, you have allowed at leats one guy to borrow some of your characters.

Spacebabie> Mac Thomassen, the War Liberal, invented Captain Euro. And I asked him permission to put his tales on my livejournal. Plus I credit him and his website.

Firestorm> <<You forgot the word 'again'>> Clinton's bombing of Baghdad damaged quite a lot of old stuff. Luckily Mesopatamia is in Northern Iraq which si semi-autonomous and is willing to give us another chance which is more than we deserve. I'm gald they are on our side and I look froward to teh day I get to stand in Mesopatamia and visit Babylon.

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo
Saturday, February 1, 2003 05:59:28 PM
IP: 136.216.75.2

Columbia was 22 years old. It first flew in 1981. The space shuttle orbiter design dates back to the 1970s. And strange but true... the computers that now sit on most of our desktops are faster and more powerful than those which ran the control systems on the early shuttle missions. Of course, there have been ongoing upgrades and retrofits to the shuttle fleet over the past 22 years, but we're still essentially flying our most precious cargo (humans) into space in vehicles that were designed (and in some cases built) over 20 years ago.
Patrick Toman
Saturday, February 1, 2003 05:43:37 PM
IP: 67.38.255.249

Shuttle Update:

Body parts found - reports of charred torso, thighbone and skull on a rural Texas rode. :(

Iraq: calles shuttle disaster "God's Revenge" >:(

---------------------------------
Patrick:<< it's only been about eight hours since the accident, and already there are scam artists on eBay trying to sell "shuttle debris.">>F#@kers!. Here's another "morally questionable" example. NASA is requesting any video taken of the breakup. Do you think any individuals will try to profit from THAT?. EX.: "I have video of the shuttle breaking up, but first I need to talk to my lawyer."

silvadel:<<The space shuttles are 20 years old now>> Discovery first launched in '84, Atlantis in '85. Endevor(or is it oUr)though is only about 10.

Of course we don't count the almost 30 year old Enterprise which was only a test vehicle and never modified for space flight.

Leo
Saturday, February 1, 2003 05:33:52 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

DPH > NASA held a press conference just a short while ago, and answered a number of those questions about the tiles. They said they couldn't inspect the underside of the shuttle once it was in orbit because this was a science mission and the payload bay did not carry a robot arm, which would have been needed to take video under the wing or assist in EVAs

Here's an article from Time.com that goes into possible scenarios for the accident. The loss of heat shield tiles in a critical location is only one possibilty, but everything is just conjecture right now. It's going to take a lot of analysis of the data and the debris to draw any solid conclusions as to what went wrong.

On a related note... it's only been about eight hours since the accident, and already there are scam artists on eBay trying to sell "shuttle debris." Luckily, eBay seems to be pulling these auctions as fast as they're being listed. But it's still sickening that there are people out there who'd try to turn a buck off this.
Patrick Toman
Saturday, February 1, 2003 05:12:29 PM
IP: 67.38.255.249

Space will probably never be "safe." Even when we get to the point where people take consumer flights, it will never be as "safe" as driving to work(which really isnt all that safe) or boarding a plane.

Space exploration is a very important thing that has really taken a back seat -- especially from the Clinton Administration onward... It has become a non-priority. The space shuttles are 20 years old now -- we should certainly be using the shuttle 2s which are still in development...

The USA is losing its technical advantage -- and that is very very bad. We should be seriously looking into exploring mars, and putting into action robot flights to other solar systems. I would like to see pictures of another solar system before I expire.

There is no on the face legitimate real reason why we do not have a permanent settlement on the moon by now. The only reason I can see is that we dont want to. And I do not know why(maybe I shouldnt be asking ;) )...

---

At any rate I do not see us grounding the shuttle fleet for any longer than 6 months this time.
silvadel
Saturday, February 1, 2003 05:10:16 PM
IP: 208.59.133.50

No, I doubt the disaster was a result of terrorism - unless you count improper maintance as terrorism.

Side note: On Jan. 16, shortly after Columbia lifted off, a piece of insulating foam on its external fuel tank came off and was believed to have hit the left wing of the shuttle. Leroy Cain, the lead flight director in Mission Control, assured reporters Friday that engineers had concluded that any damage to the wing was considered minor and posed no safety hazard.

Archwolf - <Here is what i figure happenned, and will be
figured on in a few months. During the mission, one of the ablative pannels was damaged. During reentry, it failed critically and sheared off. The gap left open a section of the aluminum hull near a compressed O2 or fuel cell. The cell just went up, causing massive damage to the aft portion of the hull. The Zipper Effect caused the rest of the hull to rapidly disintegrate.> Sounds plausible, but one stupid question: did the astronauts physically inspect the damage done? If son, did they attempt to repair the damage? Out in space, I don't believe there is such a thing as non-critical damage.

Leo - True, but sooner or later, we'll have to do something new again. But sheesh, how many people have been in space already? 1st (insert nationality and/or gender) in space doesn't sound that interesting.

This sounds stupid, but shouldn't the space shuttles normally be under extremely tight security? The report mentioned security was beefed up because of the Israeli astronaut. I assume everybody who is/was the space shuttles has past exhaustive background checks with drug tests being taken at least once every three months.

Hyperion - <Unfortanately, we are once again reminded that outer space is a dangerous business.> I agree. I agree. That doesn't mean that we don't need an investigation to determine the cause of every accident or we add meaningless measures to prevent another disaster. If we don't already have space shuttles on 24/7 surivellance while they are being maintanced or in storage, we need to do so. Assign a small military division, if necessary, just to guard those shuttle craft. <Undoubtably the shuttle program will be grounded for years. Overall though, I think it's a good thing.> I disagree. I believe a million or so point inspection [practically every system, every wire] should be completed before each space shuttle is set out to be launched. Anything that isn't in top condition gets replaced. Once the space shuttle passes inspection and gets set-up for launch, security around it goes critical as 200-300 soldiers are assigned to protect it 24/7.

(Always wandered if Jarod (the pretender) would go into space and if so, how would he escape the Centre upon touching down on Earth?)

Imzadi - How many plans for escape will you have in place? Let's say having escape plans A-G or is the list much longer to the point where you have plans for escape in case your top advisors betray you?
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, February 1, 2003 03:04:05 PM
IP: 204.94.193.25

Damn. :(
SargeAbernathy
Saturday, February 1, 2003 01:52:16 PM
IP: 140.141.28.37

Shuttle:
My cousin, who lives in Dallas, heard the explosion.

It didn't affect me as much as Challenger. Challenger exploaded LIVE in front of an audience. The explosion filled the screens of television sets. Dan Rather accidentally called President Regan, President NIXON. Also I was in 4th grade. Most of all The Challenger could have been prevented from the beginning if the NASA execs listend to Morton Thayacol (whatever the name of the company who built the SRBs) who recommended not to launch. That doesn't make this disaster any less tragic in that 7 lives were lost.

I noticed a few morbid coincidences: In both disasters one of the astronauts was a "first ___ in space" Today's disaster happened less than a week after the 17th anniversary of Challenger. Also January 28th this year was a Tuesday - same as 1986 (in fact, 1986's callendar matches 2003's)

I'm pretty sure it was an accident. Columbia was the oldest shuttle. I'm sure Sharon will want to blame terrorists or sabbotage.
Leo
Saturday, February 1, 2003 01:21:31 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Moment of silence for those on board and their families. And let's hope the off-sided speculation on the crewmember from Israel ends soon.
Niamhgold
Saturday, February 1, 2003 01:10:02 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

All I can say to that is Blood-ee hell!
silverbolt
Saturday, February 1, 2003 12:30:16 PM
IP: 213.1.113.15

and it should be Shut Down, not shot down
Archwolf
Saturday, February 1, 2003 12:12:37 PM
IP: 209.161.69.83

Gabe: Post Challenger shot down was 28 months. However, i do not expect this shut down to be quite so long. The reason the challenger explosion caused such a delay was because A) Cold War Paranoia and B) There was absoloutly no frelling clue as to what happenned. Here, we have lots of video of a break up and explosion. Here is what i figure happenned, and will be figured on in a few months. During the mission, one of the ablative pannels was damaged. During reentry, it failed critically and sheared off. The gap left open a section of the aluminum hull near a compressed O2 or fuel cell. The cell just went up, causing massive damage to the aft portion of the hull. The Zipper Effect caused the rest of the hull to rapidly disintegrate.

ANyway, that's my guess.
Archwolf
Saturday, February 1, 2003 12:12:13 PM
IP: 209.161.69.83

I've turned CNN off for now... they've been rerunning the same video over and over for three hours now and the talking heads really have nothing new to say because no one, not even NASA, really knows anything yet. The conspiracy theorists are already getting to work, though... I've already heard at least one person saying it HAS to be terrorism (even though the White House says it's highly unlikely) simply because there was an Israeli astronaut on board and debris has landed in Palestine, Texas.

Right now, gut instinct is telling me that in the end it's going to turn out to be either a catastophic structural failure resulting from fatigue, or the failure of some small but crucial component like the O-ring seals that doomed Challenger. And my prayers go out to the families of those seven astronauts.
Patrick Toman
Saturday, February 1, 2003 12:08:22 PM
IP: 67.38.255.249

I find it irritating that the Soyuz capsule has a better apperent safety record then the Shuttle.

Unfortanately, we are once again reminded that outer space is a dangerous business. I hpoe this doesn't scare us off exploration. There is so much to be learned out there. I salute the men and women that strive to reach out and train and work to help us all. I hope that their deaths also help to teach us how make better and safer spacecraft.

Undoubtably the shuttle program will be grounded for years. Overall though, I think it's a good thing. As much as I love space exploration,(Yay Cassini!) I think it's time the Shuttle program was put to rest. There has to be a better way of getting people to orbit.
Whatever happened to the X-31 program...the one with the new areospike engines that was supposed to replace the Shuttle?

As for me, I'm going to listen to Peter Schilling: "Major Tom"
Hyperion
Saturday, February 1, 2003 12:08:05 PM
IP: 151.199.241.197

Gabriel "gaygoyle": They scrapped missions for years after Chalenger. And the ISS astronauts were NOT brought up by the shuttle, but by a Russian capsule. (Souez, or something sounding like that)
ISS missions may continue, but I SEVERELY doubt there will be shuttle missions for the forseable future.
SO the ISS won't expand for quite some time... at least it allows the contracters to take their time making components.
FIre Storm
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:24:15 AM
IP: 66.72.184.69

I don't think they'll scarp missions for a few yaers. Aren't there people who are up there right now in that space station? O-o
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:19:22 AM
IP: 66.169.210.231

LM says I should go to bed... I woke up due to a phone call from my father...
There is no frelling way I can sleep right now. The WTC? Pentagon? Those really had no effect on me. I mean, 3,000 people die, and I am barely effected.

But these 7 people? They were hopes and dreams brought to life. They were living the life I want. Space. Exploration. Science...
And now the entire shuttle fleet will be grounded. All missions for the next few years scrubbed.

This is the begining of the end for NASA. Funding has always been a problem. Now that missions will be scrubbed for a few years, there will be little justification for funding. Hell, maybe someone will say NASA is to blame.

There is no f$%^ing way I am going to get any restfull sleep any time soon. After the 11:30 news confrence, I will try to lay down, but there is little chance of me falling asleep for anything but pure physical exaustion. I am way too full of emotion right now to sleep, and, I'll be quite honest, I can barely keep myself from crying.
Space flight is something VERY dear to me, and to see the footage of these people who were living my dream simply... disappear like that... burned up in re-entry...
They felt no pain, it happened too quick, but that is of no consulation right now. They are dead, as may be my dreams and the dreams of millions of kids out there.

I'll stop rambling now.
FIre Storm
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:13:21 AM
IP: 66.72.184.69

Shuttle> My mom woke me up at around 9:05 this morning. I went touside adn asw the streaks falling. Pretty fu***d when you see it IRL. :/
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Saturday, February 1, 2003 10:53:12 AM
IP: 66.169.210.231

Spacebabie > I saw your post and turned on the television. Not again. Oh, damn.
Christine
Saturday, February 1, 2003 10:52:42 AM
IP: 65.239.13.162

Shuttle... oh my f#%^ing god...
FIre Storm
Saturday, February 1, 2003 10:29:02 AM
IP: 66.72.184.69

Good Lord is anyone watching the news? Anyone in Texas watching what is going on?

Its The Challenger all over again.
Spacebabie
Saturday, February 1, 2003 09:56:51 AM
IP: 209.244.147.32

Not a very interesting day, took care of some errands. I talked to my programming professor about the code problem I was having, and he actually advised me to "just follow the psuedocode and don't think about how the code works". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Nevertheless, I will follow his advice lest my head explode.

Christine: <<Why, you interested?>>: you found me out! I'm going to abscond with your characters and do with them what I will! BUWAHAHAHA! <<Or is this some cunning plan aimed at trying to make me admit I'm a hypocrit?>>: Please do not confuse me with Pistoff. We don't even look alike. I was just honestly interested in your opinion as you've come up in this little debate. <<Hypocrit, conniver, manipulative bitch>>: AKA female 8-) <<by coattailing on established and more popular writers>>: Unless they claim to be you, I can't really see how they're riding on your coattails. If they're bad writers, no one will read their stuff. Even when new characters are introduced in star wars, its the writer that makes the story interesting, not the new characters.

Patrick: <<it should be perfectly acceptable to you if the person who sits next to in class were to copy your homework or your law school "statement of purpose" and use it for their own benefit>>: Whoa there, I never said steal your actual writing, just concepts. Especially if you claim its your own or publish your work under someone else's name. That's just stupid, ethical or not. If someone wants to take my homework and use it to see what they've done wrong, or use the outline for my personal statement to help them, they're welcome to it. Especially if I post it in a public forum, I EXPECT that. Second, homework and personal statements are REQUIRED to be unique under threat of expulsion. <<if you ask a stupid question>>: No, you just insulted yourself a lot more than you insulted me.

Spacebabie: <<we had protestors at my campus on yesterday>>: LOL! <<Now I know what its like to be Josh>>: You have a penis? Revel's in for a surprise... <<He must see a protest on his campus nearly every day>>: Actually I never see protests. I live on the north side of campus, and all the protests are on the south side, where all the stupid humanities majors who actually have TIME to protest hang out. <>: Oh no you don't! <<Need a sword to kill the demon>>: It's a special sword. <<it would be better if the writer asks permission to do so first>>: Of course it would. I'm not debating that. It's just courteous. <<You like to state the obvious don�t you?>>: Yes. <<it plays a commercial whenever you are dialing up>>: HAHAHA sucks. <<it is better to be hard than stiff>>: Depends on the purpose. <<is he rooting for boogers or does have a sore spot?>>: I think the first. <<What about the person on the other side of him?>>; No idea.

Fire Storm: <<All porn, all the time!>>: As it should be. <<if I had a room mate, I would do my best to drive them up the frigging wall!>>: You do and you have, methinks 8-) <<that explains his love life! >>: Not really. <>: And what happened in Spawn? Some terrorist tried to kill him! Bad plan! No cookie! <<but in college, you are allowed to shoot back>>: No idea what you're talking about. <<if you were kept on (and still highly paid), would you continue to tinker with the product/concept?>>: Probably not. More work done = bonuses! <<You are not THAT normal>>: True. <<it's not worth it to upgrade from 2000 to XP>>: Thanks. I'll probably install it on VPC anyway. <<Next book I get her will be the Hobbit>>: And if that doesn't put her to sleep, nothing will. <<Gimme an A-10!>>: Why don't you just ask for a borg cube?

Leo: <<many of you in here were born after 1980 so you probably don't know what a "turntable" is>>: HEY! I know what a turntable is. All the DJ's have 'em ;-) <<Think like a man and eliminate reason and accountability>>: The problem is that when I do that I sometimes get my best (male) friend 8-)

Gside: <<It's just a memory saving and data agreement ensuring device, the variable holds no data itself, just tells you where to find it>>: I understand the basic idea, just no clue on how they're used/implemented/etc. <<That'd require thought>>: Specifically, someone else's. <<what if you extrapolate to n-queens?>>: I have code to do that, but its in C++. The idea is to take advantage of the matrices in matlab. <<Not to my recollection>>: Uncultured.

Bud-Clare: <<huh?>>: Nevermind. <<That sounds even more tiring than ambition.>>: Very true. What kind of job can you get with no ambition and an absolute refusal to do physical labor? <<Start with a squirt gun full of cold water, and if that doesn't work, try a water balloon>>: That's what we do to cats. <<there was a wasp on my can of soda>>: That happened to me once. Scared the crap out of me. <<The majority of the population of the planet is stupid, regardless of gender>>: Sad but true. On the plus side, it means that when I kill off all the stupid people there will still be breeding options.

Sunshineangel: <<Do I detect some animosity here?>>: Yes, mostly towards me for trying to engage some interesting debate.

113. I will make the main entrance to my fortress standard-sized. While elaborate 60-foot high double-doors definitely impress the masses, they are hard to close quickly in an emergency.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Saturday, February 1, 2003 03:57:09 AM
IP: 64.173.20.209

`~'

Do I detect some animosity here? o.o -.- o.o

To everyone the writers that I have gained permission from is Bathory and Karen Mason Richards. Email them, call them, verify my story, whatever. Just know, my intent is not to steal but to give credit to a few writers that I think are great. I dont advocate taking without permission and all that goes with it. I just wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing before I posted. I haven't even finished the chapter yet!'~'

To Christine: I'm glad you weren't calling me little. I think we all write in 12 pt font in here.:) (To anyone who actually know me, you are ROTFLYAO :) )

Okay, enough already. I think I've caused enough trouble in the 'hood. C'ya!
Sunshineangel
ATL, GA
Saturday, February 1, 2003 02:31:33 AM
IP: 12.13.176.70

Josh> <<Probably. No logic in math.>>
...huh?

<<The world needs ditch-diggers, too!>>
That sounds even more tiring than ambition.

<>
Start with a squirt gun full of cold water, and if that doesn't work, try a water balloon.

Spacebabie> <<A hornet flew into my hair and then flew out... well actually it bounced off of my hair.>>
I was drinking a can of soda outside once, and I went to take a sip, and I felt a weird sort of vibrating against my lip... there was a wasp on my can of soda. Gah. Threw the rest of the can right out.

<<What about Grrr Argh while wearing a Santa hat, or a mortarboard?>>
Also good, but more smile funny than chuckle funny.

Leo> <<Think like a man and eliminate reason and accountability.>>
A lack of reason and accountability is just as widespread among men as it is women. The majority of the population of the planet is stupid, regardless of gender.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Saturday, February 1, 2003 01:02:20 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Imzadi> <>: It's just a memory saving and data agreement ensuring device, the variable holds no data itself, just tells you where to find it. The only problem is with dereferencing multiple pointer levels.
<>: That'd require thought.
<<Could be. Still won't take too long>>: But what if you extrapolate to n-queens?

Spacebabie> <<You never seen Empire Records?>>: Not to my recollection.
<<How about Catholic school girl in Japan?>>: That won't quite work. You can't quite combine the uniforms.
<>: I'd say that counts as a variant on full body fur. Incidentally, I recently ran across a version done with grease paint. Or maybe it was acrylic. But is was airbrushed.

Fire Storm> <<'If you have a fetish, we have a website!'>>: At least three. Plus two that are now covered in pop ups, and one that takes it beyond anything you ever imagined.
<<Maybe it wasn't well liked and was canceled after only 12 episodes>>: Well, they have made a reasonable amount of porn on it, so I'd say it was liked. And it did have an ending. Unfortunately, I was rooting for the schoolgirl to get the guy, not the teacher.
<<if I had a room mate, I would do my best to drive them up the frigging wall>>: Yes, but Nutter responds well to my insane lies, and you don't want to annoy someone like that. To put it another way, "Conversations tend to be so much more civil when there's a chance the other person might snap and kill you."
<<When she's 6 feet tall>>: Ten feet.
<<Next book I get her will be the Hobbit>>: But after the trilogy, will you continue to the Silmarillian? And the notes that Christopher has been publishsing?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Saturday, February 1, 2003 12:14:31 AM
IP: 198.151.130.245

My project for this month: Remastering 1940's recordings of my grandfather's jazz band and transfering them to CD. these are "Radio Show Transcriptions", meeaning they were recorded directly to 78rpm disk. I just got an audio restoration software package called "Diamond Cut Five/Live." It's awsome!! I can clear the recordings up almost prefectly with little loss of brightness. I had to spend another $150 to get my old turntable working and buy a special stylus for playing 78's. Oh wait, many of you in here were born after 1980 so you probably don't know what a "turntable" is. :p Well it's like a CD player except instead of a laser, you have a "Tone Arm" with a "Stylus" or "needle"... and it playes from the outside in. And the CD or "Record" is usually 2 to 3 times bigger but only holds at most 1/4 the amount of music. In the case of "78s", only 1/20 as much. (Not: this will not allow you to contact your long lost airline captain when spun at the end of a staff)

Ahem.. um sorry about that last bit. It's stupid but I couldn't resist. :p

----------------------------
Fire Storm:<<Are you sure about that font name? I asked Steph. L. D. about it a few years ago for the TGS CR Info stuff and she said it was something-sunshine, or something. Definitely not plump >> There may be a bootleg freeware version out there with that name but I'm pretty sure the original commercial name is "Barbara Plump" (:See link below for a character map)

Spacebabie:<<So it is better to be hard than stiff>>Depends on the application. I believe though (for the application your dirty mind was thinking of) that being stiff would be better. :p <<�Ooh wa ah ah ah!� I think my dad is a little disturbed.>> Are HIS dreams strange? <<You forgot wimpy pasta covered in cheese slime>>Ahh, macaroni paste 'n cheese. I put it on my overcooked burger as a cheese substitute. Mmmm mmm mmm. *smacks lips*

Josh:<<The reality is that we understand them, we just don't care>> I'm rather partial to Jack Nicholson's "Marvin Udahl" approach (in some cases, not always): Think like a man and eliminate reason and accountability. :p

Greg:<<"nuculer">> Headline News has a clip of a speach where he said that in thir intro for their "War in Iraq" segments. It made me think of Homer Simpson: "'Nu-cu-ler'. It's pronounced 'nu-cu-lar'"

Leo - [<-character map]
Friday, January 31, 2003 10:08:23 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Green Baron: <I'd be truly disgusted with my country if we destroyed an archealogical preserve like that.>
You forgot the word 'again'

Gside: <But it is the internet, so you never can tell.>
Ah, the internet! All porn, all the time! 'If you have a fetish, we have a website!'
<He did say he had the complete series, but 12 episodes seems like an unusual number.>
Maybe it wasn't well liked and was canceled after only 12 episodes
<But that'd annoy nutter, and he has to sleep in the same room.>
Isn't that the point? I mean, if I had a room mate, I would do my best to drive them up the frigging wall!
<Unless you want Alice.>
When she's 6 feet tall
<Actually, I've gone and found some, and they have some nice women. Doing weird things, of course, but what do you want? It's Japan.>
Ah, Japan... The origin of a lot of fetishes! (mostly school girl, and I thank them for that)
<He's a CivE. He likes things that don't move.>
Ahh... that explains his love life! ;)

Imzadi: <107. Even though I don't really care because I plan on living forever, I will hire engineers who are able to build me a fortress sturdy enough that, if I am slain, it won't tumble to the ground for no good structural reason.>
Personally, I would hook up a bio-monitor to myself that will trigger something REALLY bad if I was killed (plauge, multi-nukes, big weapon, etc)
<My roommate just ordered one. It will house our legally created MP3 collection 8-)>
I want 2 for mirrored backups... because there is no way in frell I can back that thing up onto anything less than DLT tapes.
<Just like College!>
Yeah, but in college, you are allowed to shoot back!

Hmm... that's a good point! BUT if you were kept on (and still highly paid), would you continue to tinker with the product/concept?
<Ah, true. Forgot about that.>
See? You are not THAT normal. There may be hope for you yet!
<True, but I don't think you can get charged with arms violations for buying lots of bullets>
Um... their trying...
Hell, there have been people in Michigan that are arrested just because they have a lot of guns, even if they DON'T do other illegal activities!
<What's the general consensus on Windows XP?>
Generally, it's not much better than 2000. Given, I like the built in voice capabilities and it recognizes a few more plug-n-pray devices, but all in all, it's not worth it to upgrade from 2000 to XP

Permission is preferred for use of someone else's characters. I mean, I wouldn't like someone else using MY characters without my permission.
<What about all the authors who write in the TGS universe?>
TGS is slightly different. They usually allow their characters to be used, and it is just good form to ask first with them.

Aaron: <Tell her not to worry. GoF just doesn't end. I spent a couple of weeks reading that book, something like eight hours a day that first time through, and I read fairly fast>
She's mostly done with it, so that's a problem. Next book I get her will be the Hobbit
<People need something to believe in>
That's why there is big business! ;)
<For my personal neck-risking, I want something with more armor, more guns, and a more generally robust design>
Gimme an A-10!

Leo: 
Are you sure about that font name? I asked Steph. L. D. about it a few years ago for the TGS CR Info stuff and she said it was something-sunshine, or something. Definitely not plump

Niamhgold: <Hehehe. You must be joking>
About the Super Bowl being in Detroit, or Detroit getting a break?

That IS a fun book!

Sunshine: <Another quick question: If I dont receive a response for an email request to use another's fic, does that mean I can't use it?>
Hell no.
<The individuals I'm referring to hasn't posted on the site for a very long time, I'm talking over a year.>
Must be 40 years for a copyright to expire, I believe
<And actually I hope this posting garners the interest I need for the individuals to respond. :) Thanks>
Who?

Patrick: 
Yeah... that's about it too.

I suppose if the person said in their disclaimer NOT to use their characters without their permission, you don't use the characters without their permission.
Fire Storm
Friday, January 31, 2003 06:04:19 PM
IP: 66.72.184.69

Holy cow we had protestors at my campus on yesterday! They were protesting the idea of beating the crap out of Iraq. I wish they wee protesting again on Thursday but they weren�t. Damn! Now I know what its like to be Josh. He must see a protest on his campus nearly every day.

Blech! A hornet flew into my hair and then flew out�well actually it bounced off of my hair. I didn�t move for two minutes afterwards.

Interesting thing my brother said yesterday. I was talking about what I plan on eating in new York and he brought up a good point.

�Why doe all the Chinese restaurants down here advertise New York style Chinese food? I want China style Chinese food.�

*********Spoilers for Angel************
I knew something was not quite right with the whole episode. Need a sword to kill the demon? Wesley and Gunn getting along? Conner accepting his father? Once the demon was dead the sun returned? Yeah right and when he was getting it on with Cordy I knew it was a dream or a hallucination
***************Spoilers end***********

Josh<<<just play in their universe. That's not allowed?>>>It is allowed, but it would be better if the writer asks permission to do so first.<<<What about all the authors who write in the TGS universe?>>>TGS has a disclaimer that allows other writers to use the universe, and when that writer does it they give credit where credit is due.<<<working out for the first time in years really hurts,>>>You like to state the obvious don�t you?<<<But is it more or less reliable?>>>Its very good except that it plays a commercial whenever you are dialing up.<<>>It was when the former teen idol was in the room with Lucas, some of the others and Warren aka the shoplifter.<<<More info than we needed>>>Too bad<<<Yes. Hardness is the resistance to scratching, and stiffness is the resistance to bending or stretching.>>>So it is better to be hard than stiff.<<<or he could just stick a finger down his throat.>>>Naw he�d be too buys slipping into his hosiery<<<Speaking of nose-picking, the guy that sits next to me in two of my classes has his finger up his nose for half of each class.>>>is he rooting for boogers or does have a sore spot?<<<as if I can somehow control that he's in my field of vision when he's sitting next to me!>>>What about the person on the other side of him?

Mooncat<<<but it's the equivalent of picking your nose in public then eating the boogers.>>>Thank for that lovely image. I won�t exactly compare the too since one grosses people out and the other just ticks people off.

Bud Claire<<>>What about Grrr Argh while wearing a Santa hat, or a mortarboard?

Gside<<<Haven't seen it, but sounds comparable.>>>You never seen Empire Records?<<<Japanese or catholic?>>>How about Catholic school girl in Japan?<<<Full body fur or Feliciaesque?>>>I was thinking more like Kitty N or tight body suit with the ears, tail, fangs, gloves with claws, and a choker with a bell.

Greenbaron<<<You may find some interesting Florida and France comments on my live journal J>>>That is hilarious where did you come up with Captain Euro?

Niahmgold<<<Never said I'd partake of it *myself*>>>True but just the thought�argh

Sunshine Angel>>>The good thing is that you asked the writer, and you asked here for tips�unlike a certain newbie who stole a character from the Queen and renamed him after the third season of Pokemon.

23. �If our people are to fight their way up out of bondage we must arm them with the sword and the shield and the bucket of pride-belief in themselves and their possibilities, based upon a sure knowledge of the achievements of the past.�~ Mary Mcleod Bethune
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Friday, January 31, 2003 01:47:33 PM
IP: 63.209.126.2

Josh > I feel it's worth pointing out that by your logic, it should be perfectly acceptable to you if the person who sits next to in class were to copy your homework or your law school "statement of purpose" and use it for their own benefit. After all, you didn't get PAID to do those math problems. You haven't PUBLISHED that essay. So all the work you put into it really means nothing, right?

"How is them writing a story off your work any less original then a story you write off Disney's?" - To quote Michael Keaton, "I made a copy of a copy, and it didn't turn out as bright." (Hey, if you ask a stupid question...)

"Unfortunately for you, no one needs your approval (or anyone else's) to write fan fic and publish it online." - Nope, no one needs anyone's approval to do anything... unless their goal is positive acceptance in the fandom. If your goal is to be a accepted member of a community of people, then you're you going to have to learn and follow its established rules. But if your goal is just to be an argumentitive, confrontational, antisocial troll... then yeah, you can pretty much just do whatever you wish.
Patrick Toman
Friday, January 31, 2003 12:53:15 PM
IP: 12.109.97.109

Josh > <<An important question is: is it okay with you now?
>> Why, you interested? Or is this some cunning plan aimed at trying to make me admit I'm a hypocrit?

You're years too late for that, I fear ... I've admitted that all along. Hypocrit, conniver, manipulative bitch. Hardly a news flash.

YES, it's hypocritical to write fanfic and then jealously guard our own fanfic characters. So what? Tara, Patrick, and plenty of others have made very good points. It's not a matter of legality by a long chalk. It's a matter of courtesy.

And as for the snarky little twerps who use the "imitation is flattery so neener-neener-neener" line, when really they're hoping to get attention for their own stories by coattailing on established and more popular writers, well, sure, there's nothing that can be done about that.

But I fail to see how it's flattering to piss somebody off by going against their stated wishes. You can do it, nobody can stop you, but don't expect to make many friends among the rest of the writing community.

And now, if you'll all excuse me, I've got a slightly more important personal issue to worry about.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, January 31, 2003 11:35:39 AM
IP: 65.239.13.105

Ugh, long day. Classes from 11 to 8, pretty much. On the plus side, I had a chance to talk to my prof about the homework and get some questions answered.

Then three hours of Mac stuff. Yes, I've actually found a way to get credits for being a machead. Some prof here is new convert and he's so busy drooling over anything with an apple logo that he hands out units for us to get together and talk about the latest and greatest from One Infinite Loop. One our of MUGgy goodness, then an hour of lecture and lab led by my friends to teach mac programming. Very interesting, but since I don't have a concept of pointers yet, OOP and memory allocation are pretty much right out.

Made *some* progress in my 8-queens problem, writing functions that check if they're available.

Speaking of nose-picking, the guy that sits next to me in two of my classes has his finger up his nose for half of each class. Once I told him to stop, and he asked me why. I told him it was gross, and he said "don't watch!", as if I can somehow control that he's in my field of vision when he's sitting next to me! Bastard.

Patrick: <<authors who write good fanfic work hard at doing so>>: You're implying that the people who do the original creation don't and that you are entitled to use their work. What about their feelings? Especially after all the trouble of actually getting published? <<by not starting from the original source material>>: That makes no sense. How is them writing a story off your work any less original then a story you write off Disney's? <<if you want to participate, hey, guess what? You've gotta learn to play by the rules>>: Unfortunately for you, no one needs your approval (or anyone else's) to write fan fic and publish it online.

Christine: <<Ask me again when I start seeing those monetary rewards>>: An important question is: is it okay with you now?

Hyperion: << elite legal attack ninjas>>: I want!

Kaioto: <<The place didn't burn down>>: 1's and 0's don't burn well. <<Praise Jesus and pass the butter>>: In that order? <<Absolutely no one has any external obligation to play by your fan-fiction community's rules unless they decide to agree to it on their own>>: This is a fantasy of many groups and individuals in this fandom 8-) I expect its the same in any other. <<You can not stage a protest outside someone's house to get them to stop picking their nose.>>: Why the hell not!? <<including Satire and Parody>>: TGS is neither, and I think Disney could easily prove that it harms the Gargoyles franchise since people have come in here treating TGS like its the next seasons of the show. <<Fan-Fiction is seldom proven in court to violate any of the actionable statutes of copyright law>>: I wasn't aware it had ever been in court. Too little money in suing fanfic authors. <<Stop flipping over to your email and pay attention>>: What made you think I was doing that? <<Real Genius>>: That was on the other night. Truly one of the great movies of our time.

Greg: <<Just ignore DPH>>: LOL tell us how you really feel. <<nucular>>: Everyone at GE hates that 8-)

Green Baron: <>: Only if they're in charge of the major war. <<France has outlawed defacing their flag>>>: I fondly remember the day my friend and I burned a flag to prove our point in a debate in 8th grade. <<it will be illegal to circumcise male babies or use deodarant, as such actions may compromise France's identity>>: Surely such a child would not be French. <<Switzerland demands military service of its men ( I don't knwo if women are required to serve as well), and I can't remember the alst war they were in>>: So does Israel, and they're in a war every day. <<The USA governed by Gray Davis. Pass>>: I'll pass too. God that guy sucks. Only an idiot could create a 35 billion dollar deficit in this state. <<a lot of anti-semites use the term anti-zionist to cloak their hate under some pretense of social justice>>: Yeah, fine. <<Germans have a hard on for automobiles that rivals the US>>: I would too if I could get cheap BMW's 8-) <<just a terrorist with some charisma who preaches the doctrine of blaming his failures as a leader on the Jewish people>>: Hitler? <<the only ones to die are the ones who ask me stupid Finance questions.>>; And finally, God will show us that he is just, and that stupidity will be punished! <<if we do degenerate into some kind of police state (which I really fricking doubt)>>: It depends on what area. Us techies are rapidly moving towards living in a police state, thanks to Ashcroft, DMCA, and Microsoft. <<They have slowly taken over Arizona and Oregon>>: We have? <<Is he an oil executive>>: Worse: a car guy. <<Kinda like dating>>: Except without the possibility of getting laid. Ever. <<You're not socially inept, just out of practice>>: If you've never had practice, you're inept.

Niamhgold: <>: That explains a lot. <<spaz ;)>>: Saw that ;-) <<I'm hoping to fill a number of positions in your company>>: Bet you are. <<Don't make me add the i and e after your name>>: You will NOT! <<men fear *women* because you do not understand them>>: A common myth. The reality is that we understand them, we just don't care 8-) <<who else is in this party?>>: Someone who can carry you to the car 8-) <<will feel REALLY good later when you're getting laid by hot chicks because of it>>: I wish. <<Can I help it if I'm a starving artist?>>: YES! Stop being poor, kenny!

Gside: <<remember to test at each placement so you don't have too many already wrong set ups to try>>: Thanks, but I knew that. The psuedocode I also already had. I was looking for code I could steal ;-) <<is my algorithm in O(n^8)?>>: Could be. Still won't take too long. <>: Which is why they are stupid and useless, and I'm not 8-) <<Is that what I'm doing wrong? How about if I pick up some chain mail, weighted bracers, and greaves?>>: That's not gonna help. <<something like that>>: Imitation. Not the same as theft.

Bud-Clare: <<French would be worse>>: They're wussy. <<It doesn't seem like quite so long when you have no idea how long you're going to have to wait>>: I disagree. I find it more painful when I don't know. <<Too much math. Rots your brains>>: Probably. No logic in math. <<it actually fits on my desk>>: Yeah. <<e would have told at least a handful of people to vote against him. Does he even know the meaning of credibility?>>: As I said earlier in one of my warlord rules: he's not accountable to anyone, so why should he care? <<there's nothing wrong with a little lack of ambition>>: The world needs ditch-diggers, too!

112. I will not rely entirely upon "totally reliable" spells that can be neutralized by relatively inconspicuous talismans.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Friday, January 31, 2003 04:08:10 AM
IP: 64.170.152.232

Gside> <<Any particular preferences on being Spanish for either of those?>>
French would be worse. ;)

<<For prolog, we did generate and test.>>
Oo, that's a good idea. (I'm taking A.I. next quarter, for which we need to know prolog. Problem is that when we learned prolog in a previous class, I only had a few hours to do the lab, which was _not_ enough time to get used to a language that's so massively different from what I'm used to, so... I need to practice.)

Josh> <<Hate it when that happens. Are both required?>>
Eventually. I'll probably just end up waiting on the chem, but I was kind of hoping to get it over with. (Not that it matters; it's already been so long since I took chem 1 that I'm going to have to skim half of the book before I take chem 2 anyway. That's what I get for procrastinating.)

<<Then I was frustrated to find out that no one knew when her new book was coming out.>>
I was kind of glad. It doesn't seem like quite so long when you have no idea how long you're going to have to wait.

<<Curse you and your CS logic skills!>>
Too much math. Rots your brains.

<<You'd think so, but you learn to take in the extra space.>>
Maybe, but the one I have now is just fine. It's easier to move, and it actually fits on my desk. :P

Thomas> <<Well, you can deny it if you want, but you are a pretty good person.>>
So? I can't be a bitch, too? I don't see the contradiction.

<<unless you count Sadaam's unanimous re-election>>
You know, it occurs to me... if Sadaam had any brain at all, he would have told at least a handful of people to vote against him. Does he even know the meaning of credibility?

<<Foolish pride and lack of ambition is why my family has been in decline for the last century.>>
Hey, there's nothing wrong with a little lack of ambition. :P

<<But your puppy is also quite tiny and not as destructive as say a spaniel or even a chihuaha. I somehow don't see Suzy causing much damage.>>
That's (one of the reasons) why I love her. :)

<<You're not socially inept, just out of practice.>>
Both, actually. And apathy is a vicious circle.

Niamhgold> <<Basically, anything except "woman">>
That's twisted. :P

Greg> <<And he still can't speak English. What with words like 'Hitlerism', 'penninSHula' and of course our fave 'nucular'>>
*L* He actually said those things? Damn... maybe I should have watched after all. (You know what else is funny? Turning the sound off while he's talking. He makes the funniest faces...)

DPH> *gives condolence cookie*
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, January 31, 2003 01:47:23 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

***Sunshineangel enters, reads the feedback and places elbow on table and head in hand****

Hmmmmm. Okay....

First of all, for the record, I did receive permission as long as I gave credit where credit it due, which shouldn't be requested, the borrowing author had best d@mn well give it! And they also requested to see it before it is posted (that's understandable) which is good because I wanted their feedback anyway.

I guess no one has ever heard of borrowing is the best form of flattery (or something like that). The authors that I chose are great fanfic writers and I wish they would come back and do more. And if borrowing from their fics would generate interest in their fics, then maybe they would produce more. Unfortunately, both said they aren't producing anymore (a tear of regret falls).

Playing in their universe? Yeah, I guess it is since my intent is to incorporate their stories into mine in flashback sort a way. But their story was soooo wonderful! Thoughtful and well written in my opinion (although that may not be worth much nowadays. Oh well, c'est la vie) I loved they way their characters expressed themselves and I was hoping to capture a little of that as a enhancement to my story.

In the end, the fic will be set up as a tribute to some very good writers and it is only meant in a good way.

To Aaron or anyone else who will continue their universe sooner or later - at least with my way, you have free advertising!:)

***Sunshineangel smirks then fades away****
Gosh, I always wanted to do that:)
Sunshine - [sunshineangel1973@hotmail.com]
ATL, GA
Friday, January 31, 2003 01:28:31 AM
IP: 12.13.176.70

And for the record, there should have been extra spaces around the code, but I forgot this place chops them off.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Friday, January 31, 2003 12:48:46 AM
IP: 198.151.130.247

Imzadi> <<Anyone know how to solve the 8-Queens problem in C or MATLAB?>>: For prolog, we did generate and test. Won't quite work the same way here, but still remember to test at each placement so you don't have too many already wrong set ups to try. In other words:
queen1 on space 1,1
while (not queen1 at 8,8)
{
increment placement of queen1 //not first time
place queen2 on queen1
while queen2 not on 8,8
{
increment placement of queen2
if violates with queen1: continue
place queen3 on queen2
while queen3 not on 8,8
{
increment queen3
if violates with queen1 or queen2: contine
place queen4 on queen3
while...
{...
}
}
}
}
That's just a first guess. I'd have to actually think to make sure. And is my algorithm in O(n^8)? I think it might have some logs in there.
<<Finite Element>>: I just heard you life is nonlinear, whereas EEs freak out if they get something that's not linear.
<<Stop that!>>: Evil laugh.
<<Then you need to watch more south park>>: Probably, but I think I'm doing all right.

Toku Kai> <<Praise Jesus and pass the butter>>: Ammunition. How about we split the difference and say ice cream. Or cheese.
<<That's Eric Cartman in one of his rants about women that wandered of into repressed childhood trauma about his "mother.">>: Ah, my first thought on seeing that line was a guy referring to his significant other.

Niamhgold> <<Great for scaring off vegetarians!>>: Excellent. Must remember to bring some to Philly next time I visit my brother.
<<More of an Ivy fan, then?>>: Both are about the same. It's just that they don't rank much higher than many other characters which have been perverted.
<<Bwhahahaha I am the living dead>>: Then do stay away from Largo. It might not be safe.
<<We bake them ever so often>>: Naughty girl.
<<and will feel REALLY good later when you're getting laid by hot chicks because of it>>: Is that what I'm doing wrong? How about if I pick up some chain mail, weighted bracers, and greaves?
<<especially if it's a Viking raid>>: You know they've never actually found a Viking helmet with horns?

And so you you may share in may share in my nightmare, I give you Fourier's Song. For Lyrics, see http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~sethares/mp3s/fourier.html

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Friday, January 31, 2003 12:47:58 AM
IP: 198.151.130.247

These last few days have been . . rough on me. Between the anniversary of my mom's death till today, her birthday, I've been . . . a bit distracted.

Niamhgold - <Yet another boring night at the print lab spent reviewing notes from the Presidential speech> Apparantly, I missed a couple of small points of it.

*DPH pulls out an extremely obsecure and controversial text dealing with the end of times* According to one interpretion of the text, when I finally acquire common sense, one of the signs of the end of the world is met. [Yes, I have known for years about me not having common sense.]

Green Baron - <Americans have a tendency to overblow stuff like the Crusades. They were wrong, but not as awful as we have been led to believe.> My problem is believing even half of the people at the bottom were pure when the top was mostly corrupted.

Hyperion - <"Psi-Corps rules prohibit unauthorized scans in civil or criminal investigations." "How can it be unauthorized? According to Earth Central records, he is supposed to be dead. Can a dead man object?" "Captain, you're trying to use the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law."> Gotta love that quote. Of course, it's kind of funny how the rule of law was used to protect Bester from Girabli.

I have came to the conclusion that David Xanatos always was an antoganist and never a villain. (while pursuing immortality, Xanatos came close to being a villain, but never reached that point. Of course, I believe one other time, outside of going for immortality, that Xanatos came close to true villainy.)
DPH
AR, USA
Friday, January 31, 2003 12:18:01 AM
IP: 204.94.193.50

<<"If this isn't evil, than evil doesn't exist." Yet another boring night at the print lab spent reviewing notes from the Presidential speech ;)>>

And he still can't speak English. What with words like 'Hitlerism', 'penninSHula' and of course our fave 'nucular'
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, January 30, 2003 09:17:56 PM
IP: 216.179.1.190

**Niamhgold enters **

"If this isn't evil, than evil doesn't exist." Yet another boring night at the print lab spent reviewing notes from the Presidential speech ;)

Gside: <A good stew? > Great for scaring off vegetarians! <Not especially, but I'm always up for a go> More of an Ivy fan, then? <Truly? But I would imagine this temperature would be rather uncomfortable for the living> Bwhahahaha I am the living dead! ;) But this year, our spring break is March 3-7. We bake them ever so often.

GB: <How about toots and honey?> Toots, honey, those are fine. Same goes for chick, babe, baby, milk-dud, and spaz ;) Basically, anything except "woman" ;)

Bud_Clare: <Haven't gotten that too much. > Be happy ;)

Imzadi: <What kind of a riddle is this?> The jumbalaya kind. <it was warm and sunny today 8-)> Grrr. Curses. <I'd like to work at "insert your company name here".> I wish. But, "I'm hoping to fill a number of positions in your company" ;) <Why?> Her uncle has pneumonia very bad (at 35) and has a 50-50 chance of getting through it. She's intimidated by my roomie and I already finishing the internship process. And her mother has been harrassing her about transferring to Yale. <The reason being that she has a good body 8-)> God yes ;) It's funny; the book I had shows her prelim sketches, and thank goodness they harleyfied her ;) <Quiet, woman!> Don't make me add the i and e after your name ;) <Satan spawn! > The flash lives! ;) <Okay! I'm a retard! I admit it. > I never said that. But thanks anyways ;) <That's really silly. I understand someone trying to kill me for my car.> Yes, but men fear *women* because you do not understand them (or you think you understand the wrong things ;)). <No stamina> Moosey moose. Really, now. And who else is in this party? ;) <working out for the first time in years really hurts, but feels so good at the same time. And not in the sick sexual way. Patrick/Aaron/Gside/Niamhgold/everyone else ;-) > Yes, but it hurts, feels so good at the same time, and will feel REALLY good later when you're getting laid by hot chicks because of it ;)

Spacebabie: <Oy the chafing�the chafing > Never said I'd partake of it *myself* ;)

Aaron: < You know, if you win another art show without being present to receive the award, we might just have to kidnap you> Can I help it if I'm a starving artist? ;) Besides, a raiding party sounds fun, especially if it's a Viking raid, and especially if it gets me out of Balteeemore ;)

Adios

Niamhgold
Thursday, January 30, 2003 06:46:23 PM
IP: 206.41.203.189

Another day in Kosovo, and it wasn't too cold.

Spacebabie> You may find some interesting Florida and France comments on my live journal :)

Euro-weenies> I now officially strike the UK, Czech Republic, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Hungary, and Italy from the list of Euro-weenies. France and Germany remain the Azis of Weasel, which surprises me since I thought Germany may favor a major war as it results in them invading France :)

In other news, France has outlawed defacing their flag (well, a proper French flag shoudl be solid white, anyway) or their National Anthem at Public Events. Next thing you know, it will be illegal to circumcise male babies or use deodarant, as such actions may compromise France's identity.

Greg X> <<You know who I blame for wars? The soldiers. If no one goes, no one on either side, what are they gonna do, arrest or kill everyone?>> You really blame the soldiers? I strap a rifle to my back so you can do that, but I find it more fitting to blame the Governments. Afterall, Switzerland demands military service of its men ( I don't knwo if women are required to serve as well), and I can't remember the alst war they were in. Last I recall was with Julius Caesar, but I imagine one more recent than that, maybe.

I don't think the PA has a standing Army, but they still wage a slow war with Israel. It's one of the few undeclared wars where the aggressors are lauded.

Bud-Clare> <<Shows what you know. :P>> Well, you can deny it if you want, but you are a pretty good person.

<<*perks up* I'll give them to you. Especially Kaylee, the demon kitty. ;)>> Too bad my barracks won't allow pets.

Jaden> Gaiter-neck. I think its in my closet somehwere.

DPH> <<After reading a book about the Crusades, I lost my faith in "Christian" Europe during that time period.>> Be careful what you read. Americans have a tendency to overblow stuff like the Crusades. They were wrong, but not as awful as we have been led to believe.

<<Thank you for that>> Not a problem. I'll burn Clinton at the stake long before I get to you :)

Imzadi> <<You're just jealous because we could conquer the rest of the this sorry country!>> The USA governed by Gray Davis. Pass.

<<No way. Zionists are nucking futz.>> But a lot of anti-semites use the term anti-zionist to cloak their hate under some pretense of social justice, though Arabs can vote in Israel, and frankly most Arabs in the middle East can't vote in legitimate elections, unless you count Sadaam's unanimous re-election :)

<<They're not even high enough in Europe for that>> Public transportation is extensive in areas of Germany that would be called boonies in the US, though Germans have a hard on for automobiles that rivals the US.

Tony Elliott> I think I understand you argument of faith vs religion, but I doubt you could ever sell me on nd Christianity, or even Protestantism for that matter.

<<Especially when one comes from a German (actually Austrian, but crykee, who ever heard of Austria, mate?) family>> Funny, I though most Austrians were Catholic. Being german and Lutheran makes sense, though I can see where religion is taken for granted when you were riased in a faith that your family ahs followed for countless generations.

<<�12� hit me. 18� hit me. 20� hit me. 21� hit me � DOH!�>> I was making a refernce to Bingo which is often hosted by nuns, but a Church blackjack event is good for charity, too.

Is Elmbrook just one Church? How many services do they have on Sunday for 6,000 members?

Dezi> <<No, its North Korea. Thats why he's so proud. If you live in s. Korea for like 6 years, it shouldn't be that hard to get your hands on some s. korean soju, but n. korea is another matter. Unless he's been had.>> 40 years ago, it woudl be near impossible, but relations are better, especially with that sunshine policy, though hopefully South Koreans remember that Kim Jong Il is a power made pygmy who would strip South Korea of it's resources if he could.

<<BTW, what is a "soldier's biography"? My dad sent me one, to edit for him, but it kinda sounded like an army obit, which was just a little bit creepy. Just a little. It was a brief life history, where born and highschool and stuff, and then when on to where he was stationed and when promoted.>> Never did one myself. Is he going before a promotion board?

<<Oh yeah, and is being deployed in the 4th Infantry Division of Operation Enduring Freedom (scoffs a little at that name) a bad place to be? I'd ask him but I know he won't give me a straight answer. It'd be a "just doing my job/civilians don't understand/G.I. Joe cartoon" type of answer.>> Honestly I don't know. 4th ID is Ft. Carson. He won't be in the front lines with his MOS, though. I thought Enduring Freedom was focused on Afghanistan, but I can see it being used to liberate Iraq.

<<Brings to mind the report of when they were gonna renovate the Arkansas Governer mansion, so they brought in some double-wide trailors and hooked them together as a temporary residence.>> How fitting for Clinton :) I wonder if his Presidntial library will have its windows boarded up and have an outhouse a few feet away :)

<> I detest pride. Foolish pride and lack of ambition is why my family has been in decline for the last century. Sadly Palestinians will have a bad lot as long as they follow Arafat's "leadership". He'll have his billions as they die. The Arabs in Israel can vote and 10% of the Kenesset is Arab. Of course, anyone in the PA who speaks ill of Arafat will be tortured or killed. Funny thing is, Arafat's Egyptian, not even a Palestinian, just a terrorist with some charisma who preaches the doctrine of blaming his failures as a leader on the Jewish people. How original.

<<Interesting mind-picture: The government of France is overthrown, and France becomes an Islamic-Extremist State. An IES, however, that likes its wine. But what, oh what, would happen to Euro-Disney, and the poor guy that walks around there in the Mickey Mouse costume? :-)>>

Well, all the Disney princesses would be covered and Mickey Mouse will become Shiek Mickei bin Mousahn.

<<* what does sharia mean?*>> The establishment fo Islamic law, like stoning a woman for having a child out of wedlock, or making a girl produce four amle witnesses to prove she's been raped.

<<That's like my school's diversity board being nine white people and one black lady.>> Iraq will lead the UN Disarming Conference. sadly that is not a joke. For a joke: Clinton will be leading a program to promote abstinence :)

<<Oh, and thanks for the help offer, though I hope you dont get sent there. Shoot, I don't want anyone sent there, but that's another matter.>> I just hope its quick and there's a minimum loss of life for both sides, and that the only ones to die are the ones who ask me stupid Finance questions.

<<Does that mean that we'd start having to get a visa to visit coast-to-coast? Besides Ashcroft is relatively temporary, legislation, or secession is less temporary. Maybe polititians should remember that.>> I doubt it will come to that. I hope it doesn't, but I remember what the Contsitution says about a Government that fails to be free. Granted, Ashcroft is temporary, as was Ramsey Clark (looney) and Janet Reno. I do however support many of the newer laws about immigration and visas.

Besides, if we do degenerate into some kind of police state (which I really fricking doubt), I'll try for a job at Homeland Security after the Army. At least that way, I'll be on the safe side ;)

Bud-Clare> <<My puppy is well-behaved. Usually. Except when she's found a dead leaf or something that she's decided that she wants to eat, and we try to take it away from her. Then she gets grumpy. :)>> But your puppy is also quite tiny and not as destructive as say a spaniel or even a chihuaha. I somehow don't see Suzy causing much damage.

Firestorm> That sucks, but hoepfully things will pan out. At least you ahve soem dieas fo rhwen its more feasible.

Durid> So did you go to Sheppard AFB for AIT? So what do you do during your drills? Where are your two week assignemnst?

Aaron> <> he was, but it serves as a sign of how bad things are when he may have been Prime Minister if he lived. And of course teh guy who did it got away, which shows how lax law enforcement is. Even a jerk like George Wallace had better security.

<<People need something to believe in. I remember we had an interesting discussion in class once about trying to graph the decline of organized religion against the rise of sport in American culture.>> But any connection would be coincidental. Sports and religion are not mutually exclusive, except when people skip Chruch to go to the game :)

<<How? We've got all the guns.>> They have slowly taken over Arizona and Oregon, and both are pretty well-armed states.

Niamhgold> <<Personally, I'd love a hybrid. I just have to make sure my dad is out of earshot ;)>> Is he an oil executive?

<<And why, if anyone's going to rule this planet, they will be female ;)>> But a real woman like Margaret Thatcher or Golda Meir, not some phony like Billary ;)

<<How about cat-women?>> I run the risk of getting hurt.

<<So it's "chick" that irks you, eh? I find that "woman" (the generic usage, such as "here, woman!") gets my ire up more than anything ;)>> How about toots and honey?

Sunshine> Well, legally you can use the character swithout permission, but it will reflect poorly on you and it is also impolite. If they don't say yes, assume its a no. Kinda like dating.

Bud-Clare> <<...Yes, but that would also require _not_ being apathetic and socially inept.>> Both can be worked on. You're not socially inept, just out of practice.

Greg X> <<Tara O'Shea wrote a great essay on it here... http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/grimorum/chapter2.html>> That's the best explanation I can think of.

Aaron> <<You know, if you win another art show without being present to receive the award, we might just have to kidnap you.>> Or host a Gathering in Yankeeland, so she has less excuse.

Kaioto> <<The place didn't burn down. Praise Jesus and pass the butter. :D>> Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition :)

Now, I'm off again.

"We have become too civilised to grasp the obvious. For the truth is very simple. To survive you often have to fight, and to fight you have to dirty yourself. War is evil, and it is often the lesser evil."
-George Orwell

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo
Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:58:04 PM
IP: 136.216.75.2

THE BARRACUDA> Let me be the first to state that the "peeves" of DPH are NOT, I repeat, NOT the peeves of the TGS Staff. You are not stealing anything, our own disclaimer gives permission for fanfic authors to play with the universe and it's characters. Just ignore DPH.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:15:44 PM
IP: 216.179.1.190

Well, that went over rather well, I must say. The place didn't burn down. Praise Jesus and pass the butter. :D

Gside >> re: bizzare rant.

That's Eric Cartman in one of his rants about women that wandered of into repressed childhood trauma about his "mother."

I believe the proper response is: "Cartman, what the Hell are you talking about!?"

Christine >> Hang in there. I think Lexy is putting in an order for some books when we get our new computer in. :)

Patrick >> Pretty fair assessment. I just want to address one point:

Some may think that by writing a certain type of Fan-Fiction, one automatically falls into the domain of said community. An author and his or her works do not. You can completely ignore any and all fan communities and / or start your own.

A lot of people like to pretend that their fan community somehow "owns this turf." They don't. Absolutely no one has any external obligation to play by your fan-fiction community's rules unless they decide to agree to it on their own.

Mooncat >> Picking your nose in public is a pretty good analogy. If you want people to like you, don't do it. However, no one has the right to stop you. The best anyone can do is ask you to change your mind for their sake.

However, be mindful that undue levels of "persuasion" are illegal. You can not stage a protest outside someone's house to get them to stop picking their nose. You can not engage in harassment, libel, or slander - no matter how disgusting you believe the behavior to be.

Josh >> << Oh I see. Well then, my answer is this: THEY SOLD IT TO SOMEONE ELSE, NOT TO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN!!! You still can't use it! >>

Well, actually, copywrite laws do not blanketly prohibit use of works. The only legal protections a copywrite gives are protections from specific uses deemed unfair by the common law. In particular, you are not allowed to generate revenues from someone else's copywritten work, directly or indirectly. Nor are you allowed to participate in activity that harms the value of said work, except for those grounds protected by Freedom of Speech, including Satire and Parody.

Fan-Fiction is seldom proven in court to violate any of the actionable statutes of copyright law.

Hence, legally, they can get away with using it. But the issue isn't about legality, so much as perceptions of "fair play."

The trick is in the principle applied to the - Damnit JOSH! Stop flipping over to your email and pay attention!

... ahem ...

The issue of consistancy here is one of protecting one's creation from alteration. The idea proposed is that if someone is letting a corporation mangle their characters, they aren't going to be damaged by some Internet Fan-Fiction.

However, someone who is writing for the just the sake of their creation, altering such a creation could be unduly harmful to the only joy they take out of their efforts.

"Oh yeah ... and Kent ... one more thing."
"Yes God?"
"STOP PLAYING WITH YOURSELF." - Real Genius

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:09:38 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Fanfic> Stealing is stealing. If you're going to go a lift someone's work at least have the common decency to admit that's what you're doing. It's not "less stealing" because it's Disney, nor is it "more stealing" because it's another fanfic author.
Would it be ok for me to start writing my own work using the universes set up in Timedancer or Darkages? I'm willing to bet that I could use the same rationalization on you that you've used on Disney to write the things in the first place. Does that make it ok now? After all, I'm just a little beginning author...you guys have a website, fanbase, four(five?) series, a staff, illustrators.
You might argue that you're all doing if for the enjoyment, and arn't getting paid. So? I don't see anyone forcing you to do the work. And I'm also willing to bet that if I started handing out wads of benjamins no one would raise a word of protest.
I'd go so far as to say the reason that it's ok to steal for Disney and another another fanfic author is that it's easier to get the fanfics author's permission then it is to get a response from Disney Corporate. And you don't run into the problem of getting smacked down by a squad of elite legal attack ninjas.
Mind you, I'm not trying to insult or anger anyone on the staff. Lord knows how many GPA points I lost due to reading TGS instead of studying, just pointing out the double standard, and the fact that like it or not, when this site comes up number 2 on Google, you're no longer exactly small time. It may just be an issue in the future (If it's not already) when some other author steals from TGS, slaps a "used without permission" disclaimer on it and puts it up. What are you going to do then? Make them take it down? On what basis?
On the other side then, what if Disney loosed a legal assult team on this site? Would the response be "well, we did steal from them. I guess they're right to it."
Perhaps Patrick's right and it's an issue of some unspoken "code of conduct". Not being privy to the group I couldn't speak to it, although it's probably less convoluted that the logic I've used to rationalize some of the shady stuff I've done; so I can't argue. Just keep in mind that TGS, at least, may soon be at a point where people start thinking it's ok to steal from here. Exactly how benovlent will you feel if your characters start tunring up without your permission?
************************
"Psi-Corps rules prohibit unauthorized scans in civil or criminal investigations."
"How can it be unauthorized? According to Earth Central records, he is supposed to be dead. Can a dead man object?"
"Captain, you're trying to use the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law."
Hyperion
Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:43:34 AM
IP: 151.199.240.223

<< So, is it OK to steal from Christine's professional works or not? >>

Ask me again when I start seeing those monetary rewards ... :P
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:28:44 AM
IP: 65.239.13.84

Fanfic etiquette > I suppose it's kind of an "honor among theives" thing, but all the same I really don't see what's so terribly hard to understand about it. All fanfic authors borrow from the original source material. But that's why it's called "fan fiction" and not "original fiction." The authors who write good fanfic work hard at doing so, and the great majority of them feel that it's "cheating" for someone else to come along and "borrow" their work without permission. Because in essence, the author who does that is grabbing him or herself a head start by not starting from the original source material.

Is there a conflict of ethical values here? I won't deny that on some level there may be. But I would argue that what is being said by the "Please ask permission before fic'ing my fic" rule is not, "It's okay for ME to steal from that guy, but it's not okay for YOU to steal from me," but rather, "It's okay for ME to steal from that guy, and it's okay for YOU to steal from that same guy, but we are both fanfic authors and we shouldn't steal from each other."

In the end, it comes down to the fact that the fanfic community, like all communities, has certain rules of conduct in place. And if you want to participate, hey, guess what? You've gotta learn to play by the rules.

And that's my two cents for this morning.
Patrick Toman
Thursday, January 30, 2003 07:24:05 AM
IP: 67.37.26.110

Went back to the gym today...working out for the first time in years really hurts, but feels so good at the same time. And not in the sick sexual way, Patrick/Aaron/Gside/Niamhgold/everyone else ;-)

Brain hurts. Anyone know how to solve the 8-Queens problem in C or MATLAB? Cuz I haven't a clue.

Kathy: <<Just because someone isn't around, doesn't mean they abdicate the rights to their fics>>: Really? And when exactly does fanfiction work pass into the public domain? <<The hotdog vendor says "Change comes from within.">>: LOL!

Patrick: <<It's bad form to use anything from another person's fiction in your own work without express permission>>: Like, say, DEMONA. <>: Ironically, people will still pay $50 for it.

Spacebabie: <<It�s cheaper!>>: But is it more or less reliable? <>: Surprised me too. I figured it was Lionel's assistant. It's always the new guy. <<where Rene Zelwegger�s character enters the room just wearing the record store apron and nothing else?>>: I must have missed that scene. <>: More info than we needed. <<there is a difference?>>: Yes. Hardness is the resistance to scratching, and stiffness is the resistance to bending or stretching. <<Are you calling me a dumb blond?>>: I'm sure I did that already. <<it�s just that I love your posts>>: Don't we all? <<the chafing>>: I hear that! <<you can always share a room with Revel and me>>: or he could just stick a finger down his throat.

Kaioto: <>: It seems to be human nature to behave this way. <<but it does have a point>>: Don't suppose you'd care to explain it to me? <<have already sold off or rented out their intellectual property rights for cash>>: Oh I see. Well then, my answer is this: THEY SOLD IT TO SOMEONE ELSE, NOT TO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN!!! You still can't use it!

Greg: <<essay>>: That essay was terribly written. I'm sure there was a point buried somewhere, but by the time I got halfway through I was lost.

Mooncat: <<it's the equivalent of picking your nose in public then eating the boogers. Not likely to land you in jail>>: LOL! Where on earth did that come from!?

Aaron: <<if you win another art show without being present to receive the award, we might just have to kidnap you>>: I nominate myself for the raiding party. Since I know what she looks like and where she lives 8-) <<Speaking as someone who hasn't uploaded a fic in more then a year, but still has definite plans to continue my universe>>: But are you still answering your email? <>: I didn't have that problem. We just went right in. <<if you could shoot down a supersonic jet fighter in a 700 mph A-10 I'd be very impressed>>: 2 suggestions. One, lead your target. Two, use a rocket 8-) <<But you like Garg pr0n, right?>>: Sure! They aren't furry. <<Conquer implies military action>>: We do still have some good air and navy bases out here 8-)

Bud-Clare: <<the third class that I was planning to take conflicts slightly with one of the others>>: Hate it when that happens. Are both required? <>: That's what I said. Then I was frustrated to find out that no one knew when her new book was coming out. <<It's just a subset of all the things that people are afraid of>>: Curse you and your CS logic skills! <<it's kinda funny being hit on by socially inept people>>: I wouldn't know 8-) <>: You'd think so, but you learn to take in the extra space. When I got a 17" monitor, I thought it was too big. Now I have a second one next to it ;-)

Barracuda; <>: must have missed that part. <<thus, considered everything all right>>: Which is exactly my stance on the whole thing. If no one gets pissed off, then who have you wronged?

Gside: <<My first problem set of the semester is due tomorrow>>: Mine's due next thursday. <<joy of joys, it's all Fourier>>: Finite Element. <<It does not follow from fearing what you don't understand, to not fearing what you do understand>>: Stop that! No wonder I got the LSAT score I got 8-) <<there are many bad things with naked women, but they would have been even worse without them>>: Exactly. <<Can't think of where that came from.>>: Then you need to watch more south park.

111. I will offer oracles the choice of working exclusively for me or being executed.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Thursday, January 30, 2003 02:00:03 AM
IP: 64.170.152.232

My first problem set of the semester is due tomorrow, and joy of joys, it's all Fourier.

Bud Care> <>: Any particular preferences on being Spanish for either of those?

Imzadi> <<That's disturbing>>: Thank you.
<<it was warm and sunny today>>: I got snow. And I liked it.
<>: It does not follow from fearing what you don't understand, to not fearing what you do understand.
<>: Granted, there are many bad things with naked women, but they would have been even worse without them.
<<You do each other?>>: Haven't had the cance yet, but I just had to squeek in another double entendre.
<<And stop dressing me up like a mailman, and making me dance for you, while you and smoke crack, and have sex with some guy I don't even know, on my dad's bed!>>: Can't think of where that came from.

Spacebabie> <<that one scenein Empire Records>>: Haven't seen it, but sounds comparable.
<>: Japanese or catholic?
<<or a cat girl>>: Full body fur or Feliciaesque?

Aaron> <<Not as disturbing as Gside's response that "It's a mutual thing.">>: Thank you.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Thursday, January 30, 2003 01:27:27 AM
IP: 198.151.130.247

<<DPH wanted me to pass on that has a small pet peeve about a certain writer who titles work "TGS Season (Insert Number)" without leaving a disclaimer that the writer's work is in fact NOT "TGS Season (Insert Number)>>

A shiver just passed down my spine. If I am indeed that 'certain author', then I apologize for not putting any recognition in my stories for the TGS staff. It's just so easy for me to consider these great new characters canon, and thus, I often, if not always, forget to give the proper respect where it belongs. And I have never heard from any TGS staffer about the use of their title or characters in 83 stories, and thus, considered everything all right. If I am that 'certain author', I'll put a disclaimer in each story regarding any and all TGS characters. And I've renamed my saga, from now on, TGS will not appear in any title.

My apologies, I never meant to steal anything from anyone, I just loved playing in your extension of this universe.
The Barracuda
B.C., Canada
Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:30:33 AM
IP: 208.181.155.210

1st, DPH wanted me to pass on a decision. Until the end of this semester, barring releasing any stories or updates to the TGS website, he will no longer post on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. He is concerned about lack of sleep on those days interferring with his judgement.

2nd, in DPH's absence, I am authorized to deal with any issues in the TGS CR that I consider warrant immediate response - no long posts, just quick replies.

Borrowing fan fic characters - DPH wanted me to pass on that has a small pet peeve about a certain writer who titles work "TGS Season (Insert Number)" without leaving a disclaimer that the writer's work is in fact NOT "TGS Season (Insert Number)".

Question - <Why is the logo for Bad Guys different from the ones for Pendragon, Dark Ages, Timedancer and Gargoyles proper?> Which answer do you want to hear: a really good lie, a lie, a slight fib, a half-truth, some truth, the stretched truth, or the whole truth?
dph's hologram
AR, USA
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:16:16 PM
IP: 204.94.193.76

Here's a link that gives some information on the subject. (http://www.whoosh.org/issue25/lee1a.html) I, for one, am in support of not having others copy my work without permission. Sadly, it's just been my experience that no one listens. I wouldn't take the chance, though, of using an author's work/world/characters in case they do respond to it later.

Mooncat: I was actually talking about websites in general--much of website content is often grabbed, without permission, from other sites. Often the site developers get away with this through disclaimers, or small changes they make to the taken content. It's not right, but it's hard to keep track of because hypermedia is such a new form. Like folklore or something. I just agree with Kaioto on the point that the ethics of fanfic copyright are disturbing because fanfic is, in itself, a "borrowing" medium (as is fanart). But the article I grabbed is pretty cool in talking about several points. Sadly, it was written in 1998 ;)

Ugh, brain hurt. I have a class tomorrow that's just going to be a repeat of this. Let me tell you, the argument is circular, and no one is ever satisfied with a single answer ;) You'll forgive me if this is the last I post on the subject ;)

BTW, the answer to my riddle was Chicago ;)

Adios
Niamhgold
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 09:33:18 PM
IP: 206.41.203.15

Registered for Spring quarter today. Got the two classes that I wanted, but the third class that I was planning to take conflicts slightly with one of the others... have no idea what I'm going to do yet. Good thing I still have awhile to decide. Bleh. It's one stupid hour... why couldn't it start an hour sooner? Or half an hour? (It's a chem lab that's causing me problems, and while it's rare to have to stay for the entire lab, I'm not sure that I could consistently get my labs done a full hour early. Bleh.)

Josh> <<WHAT!? It took me ONE DAY. All her books are really fast reads.>>
It took me a few days (with actually eating and sleeping on ocassion), and I still freaked out when I got to the end. "No! More, more! Need more!" And now... there will be more. Yay!

<<That's really silly. I understand someone trying to kill me for my car. I fear them all the same.>>
No one said _only_ the things that they don't understand. It's just a subset of all the things that people are afraid of.

<<That's true. But you're a girl. Social ineptness is not a concern of yours...unless they guys who hit on you possess that quality.>> I would disagree, but it's a moot point since the apathy is still a problem regardless. And it's kinda funny being hit on by socially inept people.

<<Because its a 23" display. It is its own reason. Der. You're a lousy geek, you know?>>
I would go blind with a 23" display. Plus, if there were naked women involved, I'd be creeped out. (And I'm not a lousy geek, I'm just a non-localized geek. Or, non-specialized, or something. I'm rather geeky in several areas of geekiness, as opposed to being really geeky in just one area.)

Spacebabie> While the "Grr, argh..." is a classic, I think that "I need a hug" is funnier, since it has the element of surprise (and/or bizarreness).

Aaron> <<Well, remember that Gypsy was really a genius, she just had to devote all of her higher brain functions to keeping the SOL functioning.>>
You're either missing the point, or reiterating the point needlessly. I'm just not sure which. The point of the joke about her scoring in the 75 percentile was that she didn't do nearly as well on the test as she was capable of doing; it in no way made any implications about her actual intelligence level. (i.e. however smart she is, she's not as smart as she could be.)
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 08:05:59 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Trying to get back into this daily thing...

Niamhgold> <<I just have to say, thank you SO much for keeping that price consistent and manageable...the mail-in part of the art show always pleases me, because Gatherings always seem to take place at a time when I can't attend :( >> You know, if you win another art show without being present to receive the award, we might just have to kidnap you.

Sunshine> Speaking as someone who hasn't uploaded a fic in more then a year, but still has definite plans to continue my universe, I'd say that was a bad idea.

Bud-Clare> <<Gypsy>> Well, remember that Gypsy was really a genius, she just had to devote all of her higher brain functions to keeping the SOL functioning. <<*L* I suppose that sports-related riots are preferable to inquisitions.>> Well, I certainly think so.

Josh> <<Pass the wait? Probably by going to school. that's the thing we do between movies to prepare ourselves to make money to see more movies.>> I meant the 1-2 hours we had to arrive prior to get good seats on opening night. We sat around and played LotR-related Six Degrees of Separation. <<<<Gside is probably tops there. Or Jason Mewes>>: That's disturbing.>> Not as disturbing as Gside's response that "It's a mutual thing." <<That's like flying an A-10. Sure, you can do it, it just isn't impressive. With two engines and a frame like a building, surviving long enough to get lots of kills just isn't that impressive.>> Actually, if you could shoot down a supersonic jet fighter in a 700 mph A-10 I'd be very impressed. <<<<what's wrong with furry porn?>>: It's sick>> ;p But you like Garg pr0n, right? <<And we have all the people, money, and evil companies.>> Conquer implies military action. Now, if you said, "We could buy the rest of this country." I'd probably agree. <<How do you graph those? There aren't exactly numbers associated with them.>> Church attendance tallied against tickets sold at sporting events?

Later

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 06:27:10 PM
IP: 66.142.70.253

"Borrowing" original fan fic characters --

Niamhgold - I'd be interested in seeing the websites you mention, because I've yet to run into one whose theme is for writers to take other people's original fan fic characters without creator's permission and start writing about them.

One writer taking someone else's fan created character without permission actually happens *very rarely*, and usually because the "borrower" is a clueless newbie and doesn't know the amount of contempt such an act generates, or is a deliberate attempt by the "borrower" to be insulting or to ridicule the original writer or creation.

Taking someone else's fan fic character *without permission* may not be less legal than using a canon character in your own piece of fan fic, but it's the equivalent of picking your nose in public then eating the boogers. Not likely to land you in jail, but don't be surprised if your action disgusts the general fan community, especially other fan writers.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 05:14:11 PM
IP: 68.102.23.36

Greg > You know, that's a pretty catchy phrase, but I'm afraid it doesn't sell itself - so I read through the essay. It is a little bit meandering and doesn't really cut to the chase when it comes to rational argument, but it does have a point. I can't see that everyone will _agree_ with the point, and I don't think I could actually hold anyone to that standard, but I understand it:

Fan-Fiction writers create for the joy of writing and sharing their particular vision with the people they show it to. They don't get anything else out of it. If people come along and flood the same forum with altered versions of their characters and plots, they lose part of the joy that was their reward for sharing with others.

Creators of most professional works, however, are getting a monetary reward for publishing their works. Writing Fan-Fiction does not interfere with them making money.

Now, the counter-point to this line of reasoning is that it can, however, certainly upset a sensitive professional writer just as much as a sensitive Fan-Fiction writer to see his or her creation altered and disseminated. However, most professionals whose works become a large enough franchise to inspire significant Fan-Fiction have already sold off or rented out their intellectual property rights for cash.

To use Gargoyles as an example, there isn't one Fan-Fiction in the entire archive that stacks up to "Ice Storm Brooklyn" and other bizzare, pallete-swapped, out-of-character action figures that were licensed. Heck, the rights to the Gargoyles TV series don't even legally belong to the creator of the show, but to a big corporation.

Someone who is sensitive enough to feel their rewards for creation are harmed by Fan-Fiction would be 1,000 time more broken up over what merchandising would do to their work.

The real problem stems from finding a hard and fast rule about how to draw the line between "peers" and "betters." It is all well and good to put huge corporate franchise properties like Star Trek or Star Wars into the "betters" category, but not everything is that cut and dry.

Look at Christine Morgan's self-publishing ventures. She's a professional writer. Has she sold her rights to a corporation? Has she licensed out her characters and works to others to manipulate? Are her books in every major chain store? No, no, and no. Christine is trying to make it as an independant, which is a very difficult, small-market-share venture in almost any business.

So, is it OK to steal from Christine's professional works or not?

What about the more famous Fan-Fiction works? They ones that always get name-dropped and talked about. The "elite" of Fan-Fiction. Aren't they "betters" rather than "peers" for inferior writers? Is it OK to steal from them?

I'm not going to answer these questions, because that's not my point. My point is that a bunch of different people will draw the line in different places. It stands on a slippery slope, and I think the line being drawn is ultimately arbitrary.

It is a lot easier to say, "Stealing from anyone is bad" or "Stealing from anyone is OK" under a Golden-Rule principle. Of course, something being easy doesn't make it right either, only preferable to people who are being lazy.

It is also easy to draw your line arbitrarily and then ram it down everyone's throat like it is God's Own Truth and harass and stigmatize everyone who does not comply. It works out really well if enough people agree with you too. Again, it doesn't make it right, but it is easy and commonplace.

In the end, I'm not going to draw my line here today. That would require even more effort, and I'm just as lazy as the next ugly American. Instead, I'm just going to call into question all the other lines I see.

I'll also note that even though TGS has a policy that their characters are subject to the public domain if credit is given, individual writers on TGS have been known to disagree with this policy and on occassion try to privately disuade people from utilizing the TGS characters that they contributed to the Saga.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:57:09 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Although "borrowing" fanfic characters/situations may be considered inappropriate by many, it's just simply the nature of the Internet (welcome to hypertexts 101). Think about how many websites do the same thing. Besides...mixing universes happens in the comic world all the time, and especially in the creation of fanclubs. As long as these things are not for sale, or violating a copyrighted piece of fanfic (which you won't find, because fanfic is infringing on real copyrights ;)), then there can't be a legitimate, one-sided solution to this problem. I kind of agree with Kaioto

Yeah, my two cents
Niamhgold
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:08:57 PM
IP: 206.41.203.15

JOSH> Well, TGS gives permission in out disclaimer for people to write fanfic with our characters. And many authors out there also give permission. Some don't.
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 02:46:37 PM
IP: 216.179.1.190

Kai> It has a lot to do with the practice of "You can steal from your betters, but never, never steal from your peers". One I Agree with.

Tara O'Shea wrote a great essay on it here... http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/grimorum/chapter2.html
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 02:44:29 PM
IP: 216.179.1.190

I too have always been profoundly disturbed by the general inconsistancies in the ethics of the fan-fiction culture of the Internet.

"Here is my story. I wrote it in someone else's universe with copywritten characters and everything, but I'm not making any profits or harming the copywrite holder's interests, so it is completely fair. But don't you DARE write anything in MY universe or utilize my characters or you're a bad person. No, of course those same standards don't apply to _me_."

Please.

That's almost as bad as the Fan-site image Nazis:

"These are MY ORIGINAL SCANS [of copywritten media]! Don't you dare use this image on any of your sites! It's mine! I stole it fair and square!"

I'm sorry, but I can't abide by such blatantly self-condradictory ethical principles in my own Religious Dogma, let alone a community of random people on the Internet.

To quote a sig-line I enjoy reading on the L5R-CCG lists: "The enemy employs spies. I'm a scout!"
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 02:27:58 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Kathy/Patrick/Mooncat: I don't think she meant actually abscond with their stories, just play in their universe. That's not allowed? What about all the authors who write in the TGS universe? Or for that matter, any fic that uses published characters in it (like any Gargoyle's fic but Lynati's)?
Josh
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 02:17:11 PM
IP: 64.170.152.232

Sunshine A - Using another person's original fan fic creations without permission is looked on very badly by other fan fic writers. If you don't get specific permission from the fan fic writer, move on.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 01:37:48 PM
IP: 68.102.23.36

Canceled Msn online service...and now we Got Juno. It�s cheaper!

A couple of girls in my neighborhood were playing ding dong ditch I put a stop to it by showing them a dead lizard. They were impressed.

Had Chinese food yesterday�Poo poo platter, won ton soup, and Kun Po Shrimp�I�m going to finish it for dinner tonight.

**********SMALLVILLE SPOILERS*******
I knew that the bartender was in on the set up of Clark�s dad, but I didn�t know the sheriff was the one who held the gun in Jonathon�s hand and shot Lionel Luther with it.
***********SPOILERS END**********

Replies:

DPH<<<I'm almost ready to use that term to describe one of my kittens when she gets in the biting mood. >>>Never mind the biting it�s the scratching that is a major pain.

Gside<<<Shame. It's a pretty good one>>>Oooh what about that one scenein Empire Records where Rene Zelwegger�s character enters the room just wearing the record store apron and nothing else? Oh well I prefer dressing as a naughty school girl or a cat girl.

Bud Claire<<<"I need a hug"? ;)>>>Nah grrrr Argh!�now there is an idea for a costume.

Josh<<<didn't know that there were differences between stiffness and hardness,>>>uh there is a difference? Oh wait :::pulls mind out of the gutter:::<<>>and the fact that he is old doesn�t help<<<someone a bit more knowledgeable?>>>Are you calling me a dumb blond?<<<An old friend of mine gives her cat cheese blocks>>>Ah blocks�cause that is what it does too your system.<<<taught by someone who speaks english, just not audibly or intelligibly. >>>Oh a Candian

Aaron<<<I'm trying.>>>I know, it�s just that I love your posts.

Niahmgold<<<3/7 chicken plus 1/2 calf plus 1/2 goat?>>>One meal for Firestorm<<<What about Matrix-style leather bodysuits?!? >>>Oy the chafing�the chafing

Kathy>>>Thanks I know what not to do when I order a hot dog in NY

Patrick<<>>You forgot wimpy pasta covered in cheese slime :-& <<<BTW, is anyone looking for roommate(s) for this year's Gathering yet?>>>Well you can always share a room with Revel and me.

22. �The man with courage is a majority� ~ Andrew Jackson
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Fl, U.S.A
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 01:19:36 PM
IP: 64.156.100.102

It's bad form to use anything from another person's fiction in your own work without express permission. Ignore what Josh said. Just because the person isn't answering e-mail is not an excuse to go ahead and do it anyway and worry about it later if/when they find out about it. If you don't have permission, don't do it. It's a simple and easy rule to remember.

kathy > Whatever they're planning to serve this year, I for one am hoping boiled hotdogs and hamburgers are NOT on the menu.

BTW, is anyone looking for roommate(s) for this year's Gathering yet? I've got a number of other projects that need attention around the house this spring (stupid leaky roof), so I'm going to have to buckle down and economize on my travel plans this year if I go.
Patrick Toman
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:32:41 PM
IP: 12.109.97.109

Sunshine > NO. Just because someone isn't around, doesn't mean they abdicate the rights to their fics. And why would you want to use someone elses fic anyway?

Joke:

Guy walks up to a hotdog vendor "Make me one with everything."

The vendor rolls his eyes and says "That'll be two bucks."

The guy hands over a $20.00 and the vendor makes the dog and hands it over and goes to serve his next customer.

The guy says "Hey! What about my change?"

The hotdog vendor says "Change comes from within."

It's a zen thing.

So what's on the menu for the Gathering Banquet?

kathy
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 09:19:36 AM
IP: 66.82.160.1

Well, assignments have finally started. Sorta. Lab lasted till 6 tonight as we struggled to learn this poorly-written MATLAB toolbox, taught by someone who speaks english, just not audibly or intelligibly.

Law school apps go in tomorrow. And I pick up my new book!

Aaron: <<how did you pass the long wait for Two Towers to start?>>: Pass the wait? Probably by going to school. that's the thing we do between movies to prepare ourselves to make money to see more movies. <<Gside is probably tops there. Or Jason Mewes>>: That's disturbing. <<both of the top US aces in WWII (Bong, 40 kills and MacGuire, 38) flew P-38s.>>: That's like flying an A-10. Sure, you can do it, it just isn't impressive. With two engines and a frame like a building, surviving long enough to get lots of kills just isn't that impressive. <<what's wrong with furry porn?>>: It's sick. <<We've got all the guns.>>: And we have all the people, money, and evil companies. <<GoF just doesn't end. I spent a couple of weeks reading that book, something like eight hours a day that first time through, and I read fairly fast>>: WHAT!? It took me ONE DAY. All her books are really fast reads. <<graph the decline of organized religion against the rise of sport in American culture>>: How do you graph those? There aren't exactly numbers associated with them.

Niamhgold: <<What do you get when you combine the following ingredients: 3/7 chicken plus 1/2 calf plus 1/2 goat?>>: What kind of a riddle is this? <<It might even reach a scorching 43 degrees tomorrow>>: it was warm and sunny today 8-) <<I've printed up most of my cover letter/resume/questionnaire/portfolio stuff for the bigger names>>: I'd like to work at "insert your company name here". <<my best friend's having a nervous breakdown>>: Why? <<For some reason, I seem to be seeing a comeback in the Harley-Quinnesque bodytypes>>: The reason being that she has a good body 8-) <<Women are actually quite adept at adjusting a body temperature to suit a man's weather needs>>: In which universe? <<here, woman!") gets my ire up more than anything>>: Quiet, woman! <<delicious and informational>>: And illegal. <<Head towards the light... ;)>>: Satan spawn! <<but she's never *had* any>>: So she won't care. <<Ink needs revision, at least for those who start using a tablet just for that function>>: Okay! I'm a retard! I admit it. <<people fear that which they don't understand>>: That's really silly. I understand someone trying to kill me for my car. I fear them all the same. <<why, if anyone's going to rule this planet, they will be female>>; Except for that whole "glass ceiling" thing ;-) <>: Sorry to hear that. You don't know what you're missing. <<what about pizza? With extra sausage?>>; Nope. <<I'm spent>>: No stamina.

Sunshine: <<does that mean I can't use it?>>: It means that you don't have permission. you can probably use it, just put a disclaimer that says its used without permission. If they ask you to take it down, its in good taste if you acquiesce.

Gside: <<Naked women make anything better>>: I tried to think of a counter-example, but I came up empty. <<the most manly way to do it lacks forks and plates>>: True. <<it came up in my rotation>>: I forgive you. <<It's a mutual thing>>: You do each other? <<Major Bong>>: lol. <<I'm always up for a go>>: You'd have to be. <<and make me some pie.>>: LOL! And stop dressing me up like a mailman, and making me dance for you, while you and smoke crack, and have sex with some guy I don't even know, on my dad's bed!

Bud Clare: <<that would also require _not_ being apathetic and socially inept>>: That's true. But you're a girl. Social ineptness is not a concern of yours...unless they guys who hit on you possess that quality. <<Sounds tiring>>: Not really. But the payoff is high for the work. <<And... why?>>: Because its a 23" display. It is its own reason. Der. You're a lousy geek, you know? <<Haven't gotten that too much>>: you're tempting me... <>: No one expects...the Buccaneers upset!

sleep...

110. I will not employ devious schemes that involve the hero's party getting into my inner sanctum before the trap is sprung.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:22:49 AM
IP: 64.161.26.235

Josh> <<Because he said so.>>
So?

<<not true. You could just be gifted. Or you could just be friendly with the professors. I refuse to eat/sleep/breathe civil engineering, yet I've got honors, job offers, and research positions.>>
...Yes, but that would also require _not_ being apathetic and socially inept.

<<They don't exactly have billboards. You have to talk to the profs.>>
Sounds tiring...

<<Apple's 23" high-def LCD and their MP3 player.>>
And... why?

<<DSL is LSD backwards>>
Ah, all is clear now.

<<Pie? No. Cake? Definitely. But if I told you why, I'd be banned>>
Thank you for not sharing.

Niamhgold> <<So it's "chick" that irks you, eh? I find that "woman" (the generic usage, such as "here, woman!") gets my ire up more than anything>>
Haven't gotten that too much.

Aaron> <<Gypsy? One eye, large lips, runs the SOL? That Gypsy?>>
Of course. Know any others? ;)

<>
*L* I suppose that sports-related riots are preferable to inquisitions.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:00:48 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Bud Clare> <<no naked or scantily-clad woman/women involved in any way, you pervert>>: Naked women make anything better.
<<Does eating a piece of pie (off of a plate, with a fork, with no naked or scantily-clad woman/women involved in any way, you pervert) make you feel manly?>>: Depends on how I eat it. Though the most manly way to do it lacks forks and plates, unless it's the last piece. I can feel manly eating quiche.

Imzadi> <<Too much blue!>>: Sorry, it came up in my rotation.
<<Such as...?>>: I don't know, I was asking you.
<<Depends on the housewife>>: Yes, as with all other fantasy female genres.

Aaron> <<And Gside is probably tops there. Or Jason Mewes>>: It's a mutual thing.
<<Bong, 40 kills>>: That's Major Bong.
<<And what's wrong with furry porn?>>: It attracts many freaks, and those freaks greatly contribute to quite odd offshoots.

Niamhgold> <<3/7 chicken plus 1/2 calf plus 1/2 goat?>>: A good stew?
<<Was she of interest to you?>>: Not especially, but I'm always up for a go.
<<Women are actually quite adept at adjusting a body temperature to suit a man's weather needs>>: Truly? But I would imagine this temperature would be rather uncomfortable for the living.
<<Maybe for spring break I'll see the temps in NH rise to...bwa-bwa-bwa...20!>>: I believe by spring New Hampshire should get above freezing, even at night. Except for the weekly or so frost.
<<the generic usage, such as "here, woman!">>: ... and make me some pie.
<>: I must get me some of those.
<<How about cat-women?>>: No vying would be necessary.
<<What about Matrix-style leather bodysuits>>: Mmm, catsuits. Popularized by the Avengers, I believe.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:46:04 AM
IP: 198.151.130.246

Another quick question: If I dont receive a response for an email request to use another's fic, does that mean I can't use it? The individuals I'm referring to hasn't posted on the site for a very long time, I'm talking over a year. And actually I hope this posting garners the interest I need for the individuals to respond. :) Thanks.
Sunshine
Atlanta, GA
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:32:39 AM
IP: 12.13.176.70

** Niamhgold enters **

What do you get when you combine the following ingredients: 3/7 chicken plus 1/2 calf plus 1/2 goat?

Too long of a week, considering it's just Tuesday. It might even reach a scorching 43 degrees tomorrow! ;)

I had a few good crits today (there's an exchange student now who talks with a *wonderful* scottish brogue, making these critiques much more bearable ;). Also, two of my portraits (Rod Serling and Marilyn Monroe) are now hanging in the gallery. The internship process is moving along more quickly. I've printed up most of my cover letter/resume/questionnaire/portfolio stuff for the bigger names, and received emails back from others. I'm hoping for Film Roman or LucasArts, but my chances are slim. Existent, but slim ;)

And I think my best friend's having a nervous breakdown. My other roommate has the coolest assignment: watch the State of the Union address, find a "Bush-ism," and illustrate it ;)

Replies!

Gside: <I'd say catgirls outrank cyborgs> True. Definitely ones in the feline proportions. For some reason, I seem to be seeing a comeback in the Harley-Quinnesque bodytypes. Was she of interest to you? <Nothing like a cold girl on a warm night> Ice ice, baby. Women are actually quite adept at adjusting a body temperature to suit a man's weather needs... <Wimp> No kidding. Maybe for spring break I'll see the temps in NH rise to...bwa-bwa-bwa...20! ;)

Wolf: <I'll put it up anyway cause I know ppl are lazy> Good to know our source is still keeping in touch ;) <It does have s-video in and out> That's good, plus the firewire will make video-editing a breeze. That's my main concern when upgrading/looking into machines. <Oh and they are giving him a copy of Window XP so he can be unhappy right away with the ram.> Woohoo! My dad has a gig, and still has XP problems.

Lynati: <The art show has no entry fee, but there is a $5 dollar rental fee for each 4� x 4� panel space.> I just have to say, thank you SO much for keeping that price consistent and manageable...the mail-in part of the art show always pleases me, because Gatherings always seem to take place at a time when I can't attend :(

Bud-Clare: <And I'm guesing that they _don't_ live in Alaska... Brr.> Heh. No, and that's thanks to my mother. Because if my father had his way, he would ;) <Alliteration should only be used very carefully, and in moderation> Heck YES. <. I may be against killing, but I'm not averse to a little castration now and then> So it's "chick" that irks you, eh? I find that "woman" (the generic usage, such as "here, woman!") gets my ire up more than anything ;) Sadly, our school does not allow that. With fifteen students per class, and weekly critiques of our work...we learn that standing up for your working and presentation skills are the *real* ways to support yourself as an artist.

FS: <And Super Bowl 2006? Come on... can't Detroit get a single break?> Hehehe. You must be joking ;) <::FS grabs Gside's sketch book:: Missionary... missionary... missionary... They need to experiment more!> I recommend our "Animal Cracker Kama Sutra" guide to sex. It's delicious and informational! ;)

GB: How about cat-women? Sweeet ;) You need the Flash Player (version 6) for that other link to work. Head towards the light... ;) <My mother is quite fond of her Toyota gas/electric hybrid> Personally, I'd love a hybrid. I just have to make sure my dad is out of earshot ;)

Imzadi: <...as well as a fair idea of the competition ;-)> Everyone here seems to be applying for NYC/Baltimore/Philly. Although Jay's applying for Lucas. Which sucks ;) <The papercuts must be awful> Advil. <Yeah but by the time you told her that you weren't either 8-)> Yes, but she's never *had* any ;) Although, not knowing what you're missing isn't generally as bad as knowing what you're missing and not getting it. <But who uses Ink?> Ink needs revision, at least for those who start using a tablet just for that function. <Are the citizens of Oakland more likely to riot if the Raiders win or if they lose?> It probably would have been worse if they'd won. <How about Eliza Dushku wearing a cinema display and iPod> Welcome to the wonder of Adobe Photoshop. Or even 3D Max, thanks to the new plaster printer. <Girls are evil.> It all goes back to "people fear that which they don't understand." And why, if anyone's going to rule this planet, they will be female ;)
<which I wouldn't bother attending if attendance wasn't 15% of my grade in that class> Humanities tend to stick you like that. <Buwahaha one class today> **sigh** I have come to the conclusion that I shall never be taking below 15 credits in my remaining time at MICA. <Pie? No. Cake? Definitely.> And what about pizza? With extra sausage?

Spacebabie: <The commercial with the Sierra Mist and that monkey. > Sadly, I watched the making of that monkey and the seesaw. So much work on one little monkey...ooh-ooh-ah-ah-ah! ;) What about Matrix-style leather bodysuits?!?

And I'm spent
Niamhgold
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 08:20:09 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

Question:<<Why is the logo for Bad Guys different from the ones for Pendragon, Dark Ages, Timedancer and Gargoyles proper?>> I noticed this as well. I'm sure it's just temporarry (I hope). I think they couldn't find anyone who had a copy of the font. It's called "Barbara Plump" (isn't that a great font name), and it's the same one used for "The" and "Saga" in the TGS logo.
Leo
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 06:57:54 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

1.Why is the logo for Bad Guys different from the ones for Pendragon, Dark Ages, Timedancer and Gargoyles proper?
The Question
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 06:30:28 PM
IP: 216.170.210.79

Bud-Clare> <<Lucky you. I'm more Gypsy-esque: I tested in the 75% percentile of robots of my type, of which there is one.>> Gypsy? One eye, large lips, runs the SOL? That Gypsy?

Josh> <<<<it has Fang's VA in it, so it's good for playing six degrees of separation>>: You gargoyles people are nuts.>> You're just noticing this? ...But seriously, how did you pass the long wait for Two Towers to start? <<<<Number one in a field of one, I suspect>>: Masturbation?>> That's a field of millions. And Gside is probably tops there. Or Jason Mewes. <<<<I'd take a P-38 or a P-47 over a P-51 any day>>: I don't think the bomber crews would agree.>> For my personal neck-risking, I want something with more armor, more guns, and a more generally robust design. I'd take a Thunderbolt over a Mustang, the same way I'd take a Hurricane over a Spitfire, or an FW190 over an Me 109. And it's worth noting that both of the top US aces in WWII (Bong, 40 kills and MacGuire, 38) flew P-38s. <<<<So I download the occaisonal furry porn. That isn't what makes me a freak>>: Um, yes it is.>> And what's wrong with furry porn? <<You're just jealous because we could conquer the rest of the this sorry country!>> How? We've got all the guns.

FS> <<she kinda doesn't want to finish Goblet because she doesn't want to have to wait for the next book.>> Tell her not to worry. GoF just doesn't end. I spent a couple of weeks reading that book, something like eight hours a day that first time through, and I read fairly fast. <> People need something to believe in. I remember we had an interesting discussion in class once about trying to graph the decline of organized religion against the rise of sport in American culture. <<Pool>> War will last five months, two weeks, and six days. Nukes will not be used. The first strike will be a coordinated, all-out assault, by stealth bombers and then B-52s on Iraq's anti-air defense systems. And yes, Saddam will still be in charge when the dust settles.

Spacebabie> <<Post more often dude.>> I'm trying.

GB> <<The response by many Europeans is in teh form of Jean Marie Le Penn, Pim Fortuyn, who proves an interesting candidate because he is a homosexual fascist>> I thought he was dead, like three-four months ago. Shot six times in broad daylight by someone who escaped on foot, and got away clean.

Detroit staff> I'm sorry you guys had to pull out. I thought you guys were a lock. Hope to be Gathering in Detroit some year soon.

Later

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
San Antonio, TX, USA
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 06:28:58 PM
IP: 66.142.70.253

***Once again Emerges form the Shadows***

Green Baron : Well, glad one person did :). Weekend Warrior I am as a helicoptor mechanic.

***Does the spell to fade into the shadows again, but instead a pit opens beneth him and he falls in. You only hear his voice echoing up and quickly fadeing into the pit "I hate when that happens -pens.... enss...."***
Durid the Druid
MN, USA
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 09:53:39 AM
IP: 63.143.93.10

Buwahaha one class today! Unfortunately, it was my humanities discussion class, which I wouldn't bother attending if attendance wasn't 15% of my grade in that class. The TA is a MechE grad student and didn't know that there were differences between stiffness and hardness, and that not all hard materials are brittle. Of course, everyone in the class is a retard save the engineers, so its not like it matters. Fortunately, it looks like there will be some calculations on the midterm, a.k.a. instant credit.

Too much blue!

Bud Clare: <<Why?>>: Because he said so. <>: not true. You could just be gifted. Or you could just be friendly with the professors. I refuse to eat/sleep/breathe civil engineering, yet I've got honors, job offers, and research positions. <>: They don't exactly have billboards. You have to talk to the profs. <,Your life's all downhill from here, Josh>>: Just my sex life. But there's no way it could get worse from what it was at 17, so I'm not worried. <<A what and a what?>>: A cinema display and an iPod. Apple's 23" high-def LCD and their MP3 player. But now that I have an iPod, I'm thinking a GeForce4 Ti would be better. <<Their computers are on drugs>>: DSL is LSD backwards 8-) <<Does eating a piece of pie (off of a plate, with a fork, with no naked or scantily-clad woman/women involved in any way, you pervert) make you feel manly?>>: Pie? No. Cake? Definitely. But if I told you why, I'd be banned 8-)

Silverbolt: That story was disgusting. Thanks for sharing!

Spacebabie: <<Who�s the guy in Tampa who made the deal with the devil for the Buc�s to win?>>: I think it was just the Raiders QB sucking harder than anything that has sucked before. <<Almost done with my first story for class and it�s not due for two more weeks>>: I wish I had long-term projects that I could start/finish now. <>: you'll forgive me if I ask for the opinion of someone a bit more knowledgeable? <<You would>>: Twice if I'm hungry. <<You give your dog Mcdonalds?>>: An old friend of mine gives her cat cheese blocks. The poor thing weighs 20 lbs.

DPH: <<begin hypothetical question>>: First of all, the question was rhetorical, not hypothetical. Second, my point was still true. <<t looks like I will be going in dept to go through college>>: Before I realized your typo, I had no idea what you were saying. <>: That was retarded. If she doesn't read the first one, will she read the second?

Gside: <<you could be leading up to a future and statement revealing even more dire consequences>>: Such as...? <<It's still movement>>: True. <<It's a pretty good one>>: Depends on the housewife.

Fire Storm: <<unless someone wants to donate $3K within a few weeks>>: Ouch! I'd be willing to donate $500 if there's some ROI. Find a few more people to pitch in. 3K? Not when there's a powerbook I don't have yet 8-)

And with that, I'm out.

109. I will see to it that plucky young lads/lasses in strange clothes and with the accent of an outlander shall REGULARLY climb some monument in the main square of my capital and denounce me, claim to know the secret of my power, rally the masses to rebellion, etc. That way, the citizens will be jaded in case the real thing ever comes along.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 02:44:17 AM
IP: 64.161.26.71

Well, the bids for the Gathering 2004 were mentioned, so it's time we took our hat out of the ring.
We simply can't afford to hold the Gathering in 2004 like we had planned. With LM, Coyote, and I all having to make new house payments, Ravyn's school expenses, etc, we can't afford it.
Hopefully, we can do it in a few more years.

Same info, just said differently, is on our website.

SO... unless someone wants to donate $3K within a few weeks...
Thanks for all the support we have received over the past few years and good luck to whom ever places their bids for G2004
Fire Storm, bearer of bad news - [<--- G2K+4 website]
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 02:26:38 AM
IP: 66.72.184.69

Silverbolt> And that is why I will never, ever sleep that far from the floor. *shudders* I hope she's okay.

Spacebabie> <<I�m sure they are fine . I found some lizards this weekend.>>
Yay!

<>
"I need a hug"? ;)

DPH> <<I'm almost ready to use that term to describe one of my kittens when she gets in the biting mood.>>
Grrr... One of the cats was sitting on a nice, wood cabinet of mine, and when I tried to get her off, she left slight claw marks on it. The cabinet was basically in perfect condition before she came along. And the same goes for my kitchen table-- It's one of those nice, real wood ones... damned cats.

<<It looks like I will be going in dept to go through college.>>
Join the club. And the Direct Loan people? Not so bright. Their computers are on drugs.

Gside> <<Because you don't feel manly. And I con only think of Wilek who might qualify for a third option.>>
Does eating a piece of pie (off of a plate, with a fork, with no naked or scantily-clad woman/women involved in any way, you pervert) make you feel manly?
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 02:03:24 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

-----Sun and the Serpent Questions-----

1.Why exactly did the car lights in SAS P4 turn Apep intangible?
2.How exactly did he become intangible in the first place? Was it caused by something in Urasus's spell?
Question
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 01:51:53 AM
IP: 66.19.28.133

Imzadi> <<Isn't that a console game?>>: Lately a larger overlap has been developing.
<<With an "or" statement, it doesn't care if the second statement is true, it stops after the first one>>: But you could be leading up to a future and statement revealing even more dire consequences.
<<Translation not necessarily required. Usually just rotation>>: It's still movement.

Bud Clare> <<Why?>>: Because you don't feel manly. And I con only think of Wilek who might qualify for a third option.
<<And you mean what, exactly, by the second half of that?>>: It varies by the person who uses the phrase, but for me, the upper limit of respect is in the, I'd say hig medium.

Spacebabie> <>: Shame. It's a pretty good one.

DPH> <<Has comments to save for after no particular day of the year>>: But I like toys. I especially like getting toys.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:39:05 AM
IP: 198.151.130.246

Vash - Thanks for updating the GNC.

Spacebabie - <Ah the clever route.> Of course.

Bud-Clare - <Demon spawn.> I'm almost ready to use that term to describe one of my kittens when she gets in the biting mood.

Imzadi - <There are no episodes yet!> <begin hypothetical question> Do you know how many pages are in the TGS site that will have links adjusted? <end hypothetical question> Lots. It's easier to adjust a section at a time to try to catch mistakes as I go. This means, hopefully, by the time the Bad Guys stories are released, the whole TGS website will be finished. I'm extremely serious about feedback; there is no way I'll have time to check every single page for mistakes.

Gside - <Didn't get any toys really for my birthday> *Has comments to save for after no particular day of the year*

It looks like I will be going in dept to go through college. At least, that will give me money to live off of.

Lain - Please read my email to you and respond to things not discussed. I repeat: Please read my email to you and respond to things not discussed.

My first test of this semester is Friday in Music Appreciation. Joy.

Lady Mystic - Please respond to my latest email.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, January 27, 2003 11:39:23 PM
IP: 204.94.193.49

Whoo-Hoo the Bucs won the Superbowl. Mom said thei were going to get their asses handed to them, but it looks like the other way around.

Now for the main question.. Who�s the guy in Tampa who made the deal with the devil for the Buc�s to win? That could be why we are freezing our butts off.

Commercials�I�m so glad my dad is out of town. The commercial with the Sierra Mist and that monkey. I can just hear him now when they show the monkey with it�s mouth open
�Ooh wa ah ah ah!� I think my dad is a little disturbed.

Halftime�I switched it to NBC too view the SNL half time special�nice send up of the American Idol panel telling Tina�s Fey�s latest fart joke wasn�t funny.

Replies:

Bud Claire<<<*whimpers* Are the pretty 'gators okay? And the other animals?>>>I�m sure they are fine . I found some lizards this weekend. One them was in Mixes�s jaws. I made her drop it and it turned out fine.

DPH<<<Therefore, I decline to comment on what corrupted me or how corruptible I was or wasn't when I started posting in the CR.>>>Ah the clever route.

Gside<<<And how about young housewife wearing only an apron? >>>I don�t think that was on the list.

Josh<<<Finished my weeks homework already!>>>Almost done with my first story for class and it�s not due for two more weeks.<<<What's the general consensus on Windows XP?>>>I have it and it works just fine.<<<That sucks. Will it take an extra semester?>>>Probably<<<Advisors really don't keep track of enough stuff,>>>I feel like quoting the lil Mutant Enemy guy.<<<Hehe>>>Wacha thinking about?<<<I'd do her.>>>You would.<<<but the ads weren't very good.>>>I liked the Pepsi Twist with Ozzy�s family.<<<People are rioting in Oakland (gee, shocker!).>>>The would have rioted either way.

Dezi<<<My dog Dottie and I just went to McDonalds on a cheeseburger run. She takes hers without ketchup, mustard, or onions, and I take the pickles from hers and put them on mine.>>> You give your dog Mcdonalds?<<<You can disperse this snarl at your leisure. Evil Dezi crawls back under the couch* >>>Puts the snarl in her pocket<<<Will this weather screw up the oranges or some such thing in the spring? >>>The grove people cover the oranges in a layer of ice to keep them protected. People are more worried about the ferns since Valentines day is coming up.

Revel>>>SMOOCH!<<<the worse part I was hoping you would spend next semester with me, oh well >>>I want to be with you as well

Silverbolt>>>Yeesh! I hope your sister gets well soon

21. �Zidel amathambo. Give yourself up, bones as well. I.e. Take a chance.� ~ South African Ndebele Saying

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Monday, January 27, 2003 03:15:21 PM
IP: 67.25.49.25

*Walks in, face going sickly green*

Well... this morning wasn't a very good one.

I was getting ready to go to school downstairs when I suddenly hear this tumbling sound, followed by a thud... then a scream.

My sister had fallen out of her bunk bed, which only has the top bed part. At first I thought she had only hit her head or something, but when my sister started screaming "IT'S STICKING OUT! IT'S STICKING OUT!" whilst my parents were trying to help her that I got worried.

I thought she had got a compound fracture or something, but it turned out it was just that her toe nail had been ripped off :S

Luckily my moms taken her to hospital incase she broke the whole toe, but the blood is still on the carpet. YUCK!

I had to feel sorry for her though. She may be the biggest bitch in the world but even she didn't deserve that. Seeing her in such distress though makes me realise that she's only human.
Silverbolt
Monday, January 27, 2003 05:39:21 AM
IP: 212.50.183.100

Gside> <<Then feel womanly about it.>>
Why?

<<All people deserve some respect, no one deserves too much.>>
*blinks* And you mean what, exactly, by the second half of that?

Josh> <<My cats do less damage than the dog ever did.>>
My puppy is well-behaved. Usually. Except when she's found a dead leaf or something that she's decided that she wants to eat, and we try to take it away from her. Then she gets grumpy. :)

<<When they're on something, we pick them up and take them off.>>
If you do that to my roommate's evil cat, the brat jumps right back up. She also ignores the hell out of you if you yell at her. Demon spawn.

<>
That's the point. ;)

<<Really?! whoa, must have missed that.>>
Lucky.

<<That's nice.>>
Huh?

<<You need people skills, and that's what college is supposed to teach...>>
News to me.

<<well, unless you're an engineer or programmer.>>
*sighs* If that were true, I'd have a job already... Wait, I also refuse to eat, sleep, and breathe code, and therefore there is always someone more qualified than me. I should have thought out my major a bit better.

<<But then you don't get noticed for research positions.>>
I haven't noticed many research positions to get noticed for.

<>
Ha, ha... Your life's all downhill from here, Josh. :P

<<How about Eliza Dushku wearing a cinema display and iPod?>>
A what and a what?

DPH> <<Is "Scorched Earth" a good policy to use?>>
Ack! Bad, bad!
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Monday, January 27, 2003 04:40:27 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Superbowl was mildly interesting, but the ads weren't very good. I liked the one with the Zebra, "this ref's a jackass". Had my whole apartment in stitches.

People are rioting in Oakland (gee, shocker!).

A couple of us actually went to the gym today, first time working out in years. I'm not as strong as I used to be...not a good thing.

Tony Elliot: <<What was that?>>: I could be heartlessly blunt here, but I'll just say he's got a problem with reality. <>: wouldn't a larger display be cooler? <<In the end, the consumer market will determine what�s better to buy>>: HAHAHAHA oh that's rich. Consumers don't buy what's better, they buy what's marketed more. That's the only way you can explain Microsoft's popularity given the EXISTENCE of linuxes/Unices. Its how VHS beat Beta, even though Beta was the superior technology. <<I�ll respect yours and anyone else�s decision to like Macs and you can respect mine to like PC�s. Deal?>>: Deal 8-) I wasn't really bickering, I was just countering your points. I can get much more flamebait-ey. <<Why can�t the registrar�s office learn to coordinate with the bookstore?>>: Seriously. Fortunately they're ordering more, but it'll be a while. <<CSL did an excellent job explaining what I mean by people have an innate sense of right and wrong>>: Actually, that's terribly incoherent, and could be boiled down to the last two or three sentences 8-) <<the media from Hollywood already has>>: I know, and I'm bitter about it. <<that means we are not predestined or elect to �get into heaven�>>: Actually, we could be both predestined and free-willed. Its called Causality.

Hyperion: <<the peak of my energy level involves sitting around watching TV>>: we call them saturdays 8-) <<Mechwarrior 4 crashes more often the a blind guy in the Indy 500>>: Isn't that a console game? <<Then close our boarders and get back to the serious business of overthrowing the US governemnt and getting back to a constutionally accurate system>>: I discovered something really silly yesterday: our declaration of independence is an illegal document. Plotting to overthrow the government is illegal, even though its outlined in the Declaration. Ironic, no? <<Came in just over 2K>>: That's pretty cool. Maybe I'll build one to attach to the 17" powerbook I don't have yet.

Dezi: <<Do you have any idea what 80 lbs. of cooking sauer kraut smells like?!>>: The same as 1 lb. of sauer kraut? <<he said that was immoral>>: Girls are evil. Just ask anyone ;-) <<That's like my school's diversity board being nine white people and one black lady>>: And keeping white kids from getting in. <<Who does Oberon answer to? Where does he and his kind go when they die?>>: In your world, he answers to God just like you and I do. But he's immortal, so he DOESN"T die.

Revel: <<people actually live in Oakland?>>: Poor people, yes.

Patrick Toman: <<You wouldn't think I could find anything bad to say about a woman who performs in a jeweled bra, leather miniskirt, and thigh-high boots dominatrix ensemble>>: I'd sleep with her...but then we all know how discriminating I am 8-)

DPH: <<how much space would it take for the illegal stuff?>>: None, since all our illegal stuff disappeared in a freak partition map accident. <<TGS is releasing a Bad Guys episode archive page>>: There are no episodes yet!

Gside: <<Leagal you say?>>: I do. <<if I'm both?>>: You should know better. With an "or" statement, it doesn't care if the second statement is true, it stops after the first one. <>: I know. <<Might be a subgenre of the cyborg thing, though>>: I don't think so. <<You must move things to take them apart>>: Translation not necessarily required. Usually just rotation 8-).

108. Any and all magic and/or technology that can miraculously resurrect a secondary character who has given up his/her life through self sacrifice will be outlawed and destroyed.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Monday, January 27, 2003 02:40:53 AM
IP: 64.173.20.125

DPH> Oh well, I went ahead and combined that update with this latest one. Too bad there aren't any good synonyms for "know", huh?
Vash
Monday, January 27, 2003 01:36:05 AM
IP: 129.98.123.136

Dezi> <<Maybe he's a late bloomer>>: You'll never know.

DPH> <<Is "Scorched Earth" a good policy to use?>>: Depends on whether you care about your people.

Patrick> <<how long it is before Stephen appears to grace us with another chorus of that Queen tune>>: Almost nine minutes. Or does he actually have to use a Queen lyric?

And an mp3. I Can See Clearly Now, by Crosby, Stills, and Nash.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:39:28 AM
IP: 198.151.130.246

Linguistic update (and I don't mean pasta) - d�cimo is tenth, diez is just ten.
Tony Elliot
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:30:53 AM
IP: 65.29.132.86

Diez! (spanish for 10th)
Tony Elliot
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:21:24 AM
IP: 65.29.132.86

Didn't get any toys really for my birthday, and a ticket to the theater doesn't really do it for me. At least I got a cheesecake and a death by burger lunch out of it.

Imzadi> <<our legally created MP3 collection>>: Leagal you say?
<<unless you're an engineer or programmer>>: And if I'm both?
<>: Maybe it is, but I was just referring to my age being a prime number.
<<They get cold enough for me>>: Wimp.
<<Twisted>>: Right, which is why they moved on to their next try.
<<Strangely enough, my internet connection didn't suck last night>>: Mine's good enough most of the time that I can live with the occaisonal mess up.
<<How about Eliza Dushku wearing a cinema display and iPod?>>: Too specific. Might be a subgenre of the cyborg thing, though.
<<that has nothing to do with taking things apart>>: You must move things to take them apart.

9th.
More later?
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Piscataway, NJ
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:19:21 AM
IP: 198.151.130.246

**OFFICIAL TGS ANNOUNCEMENT**
Yes, TGS is releasing a Bad Guys episode archive page. Its location is http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/bg . Please be patient, it will take a few weeks to get a link to that page on every appropriate page in the TGS Website.

Alongside that, links to TGS Comment Room Archive are being replaced with links to TGS Comment Room Information. Also, the old TGS CR Rules have been removed from the TGS Disclaimer page.

Please report bad links to the CR and inconsistency within web pages to the TGS CR or the tgs email address (tgs_info@yahoo.com). The whole TGS website will be updated sections at a time, right now only the picture archive pages and the Disclaimer Page have been completely updated. Each week, I will be updating a section of the TGS website at a time.

Other TGS Web pages that have not touched in a long time will be updated during this process.
**END OFFICIAL TGS ANNOUNCEMENT**
DPH - [<-Click here to visit the Bad Guys Episode Archive]
AR, USA
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:14:14 AM
IP: 204.94.193.10

Ate!
Niamhgold
Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:58:13 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

seven.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:49:06 PM
IP: 66.169.210.231

SEX!
Josh
Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:48:09 PM
IP: 64.173.20.125

Number FIVE =)
silvadel
Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:46:31 PM
IP: 208.59.133.50

Top 10, #4, official TGS post coming shortly
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:40:52 PM
IP: 204.94.193.10

Gues I was wrong.

Third, possibly Fourth!!!
Leo
Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:38:00 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Segundo!
Dezi
Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:36:21 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

FIRST!!!
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:34:51 PM
IP: 216.179.6.35