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I have a question. If we are at war, and the enemy sneaks into one of our camps and manages to throw a grenade into one of the tents and kills 8 to 10 troops, can we still yell "terrorist attack?" Or is that just sonething one has to expect in war. :p

(I mean no offence to anyone who may have relatives fighting over there)

------------------------

Spacebabie:>Welcome back. <<Not much else except I pissed at the violent hippies>>::blinks::<<due to the fact that I have crappy cable>>that's strange. According to the Time/Warner Cable Central Florida web site, Toon Disney is on Digital Cable channel 135. It's part of the "Digital Children and Family" package.<<Which is like getting an A+ from Florida State University>> But he still FLUNKED out of U.T. Austin<<um what about Ashcroft?>>and "Bumsfield?"<<Guliani taking Bush’s place with Colin Powel as VP>>I'd perfer the other way around, but your way is more realistic.<<I’m not going to mention anything that will make people gag from sappy cuddly stuff,>>I'm sure I'll be able to read about it and all the details on your "Diaryland" page shortly. :p
Leo
Saturday, March 22, 2003 08:23:07 PM
IP: 172.137.246.84

Leo> <<That's good news, so why do you have "Dead" on your post in the Station 8 CR?>>

Just noting that the room is dead :)

Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Saturday, March 22, 2003 08:17:23 PM
IP: 66.169.209.155

Gunjack >> When you manage to flip the scientific community, you can have me. Until then, I'm not going to come down on yourself on depleted Uranium. I'm not in a qualified position to decide, as, no matter how much you might want to emphasize casuality, the evidence is broadly circumstancial and not especially scientific in terms of controls.

"The establishment is out-moded" is the rallying cry for everyone who's ever made an ass out of themselves seeking the Nobel Prize. Sometimes you're right. Sometime's your wrong. I've seen a lot of field experiments in my day, and I'm not about to go off just on this guy's educated guess.

Corraberate the evidence. Conduct controled experiments to confirm the field studies. Then publish under scientific criticism. If it holds up, then the scientific standard will change and people won't use DU anymore.

Oh, and I know you're not trying to make it sound like the US is the only country employing DU in the world, because that would be untrue, after all.

And, BTW, didn't Chenobyl deal with Enriched Uranium for a long period of time, as did the Iraqi reactor? Isn't Enriched Uranium WAY more radioactive than DU?

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Saturday, March 22, 2003 08:12:49 PM
IP: 66.30.158.19

Going away for the weekend (or what's left of it). Last post before I go... (I can't even form complete sentences right now, and I'm going to drive for three hours? Brilliant... Must find caffeine.)

********************
Godiva> <<"Too bad you couldn't have had that baby before your grandmother passed away.">>
*winces* That's horrible. Some people's mouths don't seem to be connected to their brains sometimes.
*****************************
Josh> <<Spent most of today running the washing machine>>
That's good... some bastards actually make their mothers do those huge bags of laundry when they get home. Weenies.

<>
*shrugs* He was over-confident. It happens. You'd be over-confident, too, if you were a shiny ball of light. ;)

<<WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS>>
:)

<<So, is that maturing or not?>>
When the alternative is getting really pissed off?

<<You'd probably be too busy writing in sympathetic pain to be aroused.>>
I'd hope so, but you can never quite be sure about him...

<<They must want something.>>
But what?

<<Bill Gates. I'm betting he stays in his house. I would if I had it.>>
His house gives me the creeps.

<>
*snickers* That wouldn't be any fun.

<<A poop flinging monkey hit my science teacher when we visited the zoo in 7th grade.>>
Ick... He should have ducked.

<<You couldn't find three people in high school who liked you?>>
Three in the same week?

<<Unless they fail to deliver, in which case you have to go pick it up anyway.>>
Shut up, demonspawn! :P

<<You're a college student, what could he get? Some inflatable furniture?>>
Hey, I have real furniture. And no, I'm not willing to part with it.

<<Good point, well put.>>
Oh, so _now_ my logic is good enough for you... :P

<<Actually, it doesn't even prove that>>
I was being generous.

<>
I wish I could do that... The 2 hour part, not the 430 part... (I'm working on not procrastinating so much.) It takes me more like 5 hours for 2 pages, just because I usually find the topics painful.

<<Unfortunately, they are. And we did.>>
They didn't elect me. :P

<<Her cat is stupid? Or she behaves stupidly concerning her cat?>>
Let's just say that I see several striking similarities between her and her cat. ;)

<<There are so few of those anymore. Except in Los Angeles and New York.>>
Now they prefer SUVs.

<>
Not entirely... They're letting the media do whatever the hell they want to try to "prove" that we're not being evil... So many people are against this war that they want the damn thing recorded. But the morons _are_ talking more than necessary.

<<Romance, defined as whatever gets the other person out of their clothing.>>
Like... showers? :P

<<If by valuable you mean broken.>>
You wish.

<<I've had good french food. Once. In Hawaii. Maybe it was only good because I was there.>>
I have a french cookbook with some damn tasty recipes in it.

<<Maybe he was just so smart that he was bored! Yeah, that's it! ;-)>>
That's my excuse, and even I get better than a C average... Getting C's in a few evil classes is one thing, but a C _average_ takes talent. (Plus, _I_ can speak English quite well (most of the time).)

<<Give it to Gside, he can make his own bouncies!>>
*falls over laughing* That's twisted.
**************************
Spacebabie> <<We call them patties.>>
They've been called many things...
************************
Gunjack> <<When I told them that the US was using weapons that had severe long-term effects for the civilian populations of enemy countries, this was the responce I recieved EVERY TIME: "Good! That'll teach them not to fight with us!">>
*swears*
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Saturday, March 22, 2003 07:57:47 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Kai - Sorry, forgot to add that... Yes, Iraq is a bit of a special case. You have the oil fires, as you mentioned, plus the nuclear power plant that was bombed by the Israelis in the 70s-80s (I think), plus possible chemical weapons exposure from bombed armories and such... And with that much stuff kicking around, it's hard to say definitively that DU is the cause of all those problems.

On the other hand, there's the sheer amount on it; somewhere between 320 and 800 tons of DU fired, of which some 70% (statistically; if I remember correctly, this is the amount that usually burns up in a penetrator strike) of which is particulate blowing across the countryside.
...You'll also note that the report for the Royal Society was based on data from Chernobyl and various low-level contaminations in europe, NOT from Iraq, and yet the results seem to corellate quite well with the Iraqi situation.
A few pertinant quotes from Busby. Sorry to keep quoting the guy, but there are things here that seem pertinant. http://www.llrc.org/rat/subrat/rat422.htm

"Radiation readings from the southern desert both close to and remote from the destroyed tanks were interesting. The measurements were made with a Nuclear Instruments Electra instrument... The system can distinguish between alpha, beta and gamma counts."

"Some tanks were examined in which there was a hole in the turret. This hole was caused by the impact of a 14.7mm A-10 penetrator (many of which, having missed their target, were were just lying around). The diameter of the hole in the armour plate was about 70mm. The metal around the hole was highly radioactive with beta emission giving about 2000 counts per second eqivalent to a dose of about 80 microSieverts per hour. This was presumably due to alloying of the Uranium with the steel in armour and decays from the two daughter beta emitting isotopes, Protoactinium-234 and Thorium-234. The often expressed belief that bulk DU is an alpha emitter and therefore cannot harm those who handle it is seriously in error. These materials were very hot."

"There were several places where the 14.7mm penetrator cores of the 30mm A-10 shells were just lying on the road. These were very radioactive, and gave 12000cps or more beta radiation equivalent to tissue doses of 0.48mSv/hour. The uncorrected alpha signal was 12cps. Thus anyone handling them for any length of time would receive a serious burn."

"In general what was found was that the alpha counts were higher in the whole battlefield area than they were in Basrah by a factor of about ten fold."

"Where did all the DU go? The general southern area seems to have a higher alpha activity so perhaps the particles produced by the bombing became generally dispersed over the area.This would fit the alpha measurements. Have they caused cancer increases? Well the evidence seems to be that since the war, there is a higher rate of cancer in the areas of the north and south where the DU was used than in the city of Baghdad where it was least used. And if the northern rates are also high, this rules out the oil fires as a major cause. In addition, there seems to be a large increase in cancer in soldiers who were in the battles. Chris met one of these soldiers who was dying in his mid 40s of a rare cancer of the nasal passages."

Assuming that he isn't lying, there's your answer for the oil fires. likewise, "being downwind of a house with asbestos used in it when it blows up" is out, (lower rate in Baghdad, which was also heavily bombed). Also, since when has city bombardment (like, say, in WWII?) ever caused massive increases in birth defects, cancer, and luekemia?

As I understand things, the genetic damage seen in Iraq seems to indicate radiation, not chemicals, the only known sources of which would be from DU dust, or from the bombed reactor. I'm not sure how much radioactive material would be released by a bombed reactor, but doubt it'd add up to 320+ tons. Also, the reactor was bombed much earlier, so why does the rate of radiological illnesses only spike after the Gulf War?

<> Neither am I, by any stretch of the imagination... But we're both smart enough to work out correlation and causation, yes?
<<When the scientific community an a concensus actually comes out and says, "We were wrong, this is a terrible idea," and then we continue to use the stuff, I'll get worked up over it.>> Scientists are saying that right now. I've read the papers for it, and I've read the papers against it. To quote Busby a little more... (http://www.llrc.org/du/subtopic/durs.htm)

"The two models [of radiation's effect on tissue] arise from two different scientific methods. The conventional model is a physics-based one because it was developed by physicists prior to the discovery of DNA. Like all such models it is mathematical, reductionist and simplistic, but because of this is of great descriptive utility. Its quantities, dose, are average energy per unit volume or dE/dV and in its application, the volumes used are greater than 1kg. Thus it would not distinguish between the average energy transferred to a person warming themselves in front of a fire and a person eating a red hot coal."

"By comparison, the radical model shown in Fig.2 arises from an inductive process...
...the radical model is based on biological considerations and considers each type of exposure according to its cellular radiation track structure in space and in time. It is not, therefore, possible to employ this model to predict risks from 'radiation dose' to 'populations' but only from microscopically described doses from specific isotopes or particles whose decay fractionations are considered to interact with cells which themselves respond biologically to the insults and may be in various stages of their biological development."

"The answer is that the conventional LNT model must be rejected because it is not scientific. Its conclusions are based on deductive reasoning. It falsely uses data from one set of conditions, high-level, acute, external exposure to model low-level, chronic, internal exposure. It is scientifically bankrupt, and were it not for political considerations, would have been rejected long ago."

In short, the "official" model is outdated, and makes little logical sense. It lacks the resolution to accurately describe what radiation actually does to people in low, protracted doses. It was never even designed to handle such problems, but it has been misused in an attempt to do so.

Currently, DU is commonly used in all US cannon of both air and land craft. The M1 Abrams main battle tank fires a 3 kg DU projectile from its main gun, and the 30mm cannon of the A-10 “Warthog” aircraft is capable of laying down just shy
of a metric ton of DU per minute. We used this weapon for the first time in the Gulf War, and the Iraqi's have been paying for it ever since. We used it again in the balkans, where the environment (mountinous area, limited use, frequent rainfall) kept it from spreading widely... But there have been reports of serious radioactivity where DU weapons were used. When we liberate Iraq, this is a serious cleanup problem that we WILL have to deal with.

<<You still haven't answered my question, however, as to just how safe you expect things that explode and burn to be.>> In short, I expect them not to contaminate massive areas with radiation for the interminable future. I think that's a pretty good starting place, don't you?

Josh><<But I don't think he'd agree that its acceptable to use a weapon that will kill your opponent and make sure anyone near him dies slowly and painfully over the next few years and that his children develop horrible birth defects. Christ, that sounds like a war crime to me.>> After finishing the paper I origionally did this research for, I spent the next few days wandering around my school in a daze. At the time, I attended Harding University, a Christian four-year private institution with excellent academic credentials. I struck up conversations on this subject with fellow students in my classes, at lunch, wherever. When I told them that the US was using weapons that had severe long-term effects for the civilian populations of enemy countries, this was the responce I recieved EVERY TIME:
"Good! That'll teach them not to fight with us!"

<<Hey dude there's some toxin called Risin(?), my mother was wonder how its pronounced. Help?>> Ricin, a powerful toxin derived from the Castor bean. I think it's pronounced "Ris-sin", but I'm not sure.
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic889.htm
<<Why does everyone nuclear get a say in world security?>> Um, because trying to deny them one might lead to global thermonuclear holocaust?

Back to work.
Gunjack "Mumsy's Malefactor" Valentine
Saturday, March 22, 2003 07:28:38 PM
IP: 65.93.74.169

Gunjack >> You still haven't answered my question, however, as to just how safe you expect things that explode and burn to be. Seriously, I think we both agree that inhaling and injesting metal is a - Bad Idea -. So is sucking down fumes from oil fires for 3 years at a time or being downwind of a house with asbestos used in it when it blows up.

I can see your point about institutional inertia as well, but I'm also not a scientist. When the scientific community an a concensus actually comes out and says, "We were wrong, this is a terrible idea," and then we continue to use the stuff, I'll get worked up over it.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Saturday, March 22, 2003 05:37:02 PM
IP: 66.30.158.19

Kaioto><<The senior citizen proved more than the protester-turned-thug could handle, however, and police officers quickly separated the two and affirmed that the protestor had initiated the physical violence.>> Rule #1 of anti-war protest: NEVER show disrespect to Veterans. I REALLY love stories like this... : )
<<Yes, lots of circumstantial evidence. The world scientific community's accepted stance on DU could be completely wrong.>> The world scientific community's attitude toward DU is, for the most part, nervous apprehension.

<<...citing it as a "radioactive weapon" which, while technically true, is misleading when reading their references, as the citations on depleted Uranium note its hazardous nature is due to its being a heavy metal (like lead), not due to it being radioactive.>> The usual assumption about DU is that since it is so weakly radioactive, and since inhaled aerosols are excreted so quickly, it can't be a radioactive threat.

<<At any rate, we continue to expose our own soldiers, dentists, and industrial workers to DU on a daily basis.>> There's exposure, and then there's exposure. Our soldiers are usually exposed to solid DU in the form of penetrators and armor, which means they're exposed to a weak external emission of Alpha radiation. Since alphas can't even penetrate regular clothing, this is probably not a hazard.

DU is a heavy, chemically toxic, and slightly radioactive (30% of the radioactivity of Uranium) heavy metal. It's an extremely dense material, which is one of the reasons it makes such good penetrators and armor; a DU projectile delivers far greater kinetic energy than one made of, say, steel. It is also Pyrophoric, meaning that at certian tempertures, it burns violently.
When a DU penetrator hits a tank, its high kinetic energy allows it to plow right through heavy armor, and the intense heat of impact causes it to burn, igniting fuel and ammunition. When hit by DU penetrators during the Gulf War, most Iraqi tanks exploded violently, killing all inside.

That's the good news, since the POINT of firing a tank at something is usually to kill it as quickly as possible.

Here's the bad news. When DU burns, it turns into extremely small particles of Uranium Oxide (hereafter refered to as aerosols or particulates). These are bad for several reasons.
First, they no longer self-shield. If you have a solid block of DU, a great deal of the radiation its component molecules emit are trapped by the block's mass, converting (if I'm not mistaken) to heat. Micron-scale DU particulates, though, are too small to do this.
Second, they hit you from the inside, usually through inhilation. More recent studies of battlefield DU particulate show that, rather than being flushed rapidly from the body, these nasty bits can lodge in lungs and other organs, remaining for years or longer, and continueing to emit weak alpha radiation. As I mentioned, Alphas are the least hazardous for external exposure, because they transfer their energy almost instantly upon contact; therefore they can't get inside you were the important stuff is. But if they're being emitted INSIDE you, they're the MOST dangerous, since the tissue surrounding the particle soaks up ALL of its energy.

You'll note that most of those reports state that DU emits "negligable" radiation. They usually go on to say that the radiation is "negligable", since it's lower than that we recieve from the sun and other external sources every day.
If you read the report to the Royal Society (http://www.llrc.org/du/duframes.htm ...the one called "Science on Trial"), you might have noted the author's explanation for this.
Assume that your body recieves ten units of radiation from natural sources every day, while the DU particle in your lung emits .001 units per day (or less). the problem is, the .001 units emitted by the particle are concentrated on a VERY small area (pretty much the cells in direct contact with the particle), whereas the 10 units of external radiation are spread over all the trillions of cells in your whole body.
See the problem? The particals emit less radiation, but concentrate their effects on an extremely small area. Being largely unreactive, they DON'T cause toxic effects, and are often too large to be flushed from the system.

read the Busby report. I know it's long, but there's some good info there.

Re: the UN's take on DU - This is much the same info found in the Rand report. Note that their case studies mostly come from workers in Uranium mines and plants, or from soldiers who recieved battlefield exposure of perhaps months. Offhand, I'm wondering if there might be a difference in the type of exposure between these cases (mining/reprosessing uranium, limited exposure, probable resperator use), and exposure to DU particulate from burning penetrators (long-term exposure, no respirators, possibly a major difference in the form of DU that the samples were exposed to?). In short, what they've proven is that the miners and plant worker aren't at risk. They have NOT shown that the type of exposure these men recieved is comperable to that of battlefield DU. They do NOT appear to have examined the effects on those who have lived with severe DU exposure for more than a decade. Therefore

So here's the question, Kai: Why is it that the people who declare battlefield DU safe never seem to talk about battlefield DU? Personally, I believe that this is a case of institutional inertia, rather than malice. They had a good case, and they're sticking to it, until the evidence becomes insurmountable.

Anyway, until the pro-DU people answer some of the battlefield evidence (persistence of DU particles within the body, arguements of focused radiation, etc), I'll stick with saying that DU is too dangerous to use. It makes great bullets, and I'd really like to be proven wrong, but there you are.

Anyway, I didn't look at most of your links, mostly because your summary didn't provide anything I hadn't heard from Rand. If I missed sommat that counters the points above, I'd REALLY like to know.

And now, back to work!
Gunjack "Smartiesucker" Valentine
Saturday, March 22, 2003 03:58:16 PM
IP: 65.93.74.169

Stuff that I missed:
Forgot to mention that King of the Hill is right. Revel’s family does cook with propane.

I have also got to get a picture of the Cthulu plushie that he got me.

Not much else except I pissed at the violent hippies…yup the rioting peace protesters that beat up cops and other people who don’t agree with them. They block traffic preventing people from getting to work and paramedics and firefighters from saving lives.

“We don’t want to see any lives lost because of this war.” How about lives lost and bloodshed from your so called “Peace Rallies?” Bunch of hypocrites or maybe I should call them Hippy-crits?

Man watching the war on tv is soooo boring. Sure the updates of land covered and Iraqi soldiers surrendering is good..as well as seeing groups of the Iraqi people tearing down Saddam posters and stomping on them but it gets boring when they go into long discussions about Saddams’ family and the descriptions of tanks and missiles

BTW is it true that Saddam is making Satan his b!tch now?

Kathy<<<They've been around forever as an alternative farm animal>>>Okay I figured it would have been like Emus

Jackal<<<And kept right on poking after the dog ripped his face off!>>>Yeah it appeared you were trying to get Greg to ban you so you could complain.

Siryn>>>Waves back

Gside<<<My faith has peen restored>>>Peen?<<<Burn Up W?>>>Exactly<<<Hence my stance on artificial bouncies>>>So who caress if there is no body attached you just ant the breasts? You can get the same wiggling effect by placing two fried or poache eggs on your plate. They jiggle when you want them too.

Bud Claire<<<*snickers* That's the third one this week.>>>the third Snickers bar?<<<Also some less pleasant things which are found in pastures, I believe.>>>We call them patties.

GregX<<<That was a joke, >>>Unlike some people I can tell when you are joking.<<<Yeah, being the bad cop is fun >>>You get to act all tough and bang your fists on the table trying to get the perp to piss his pants.<<<Bush only graduated from Yale with a C average>>>Which is like getting an A+ from Florida State University (A praise for Bush or an insult to FSU…you decide ;))

Josh<<<am home for spring break. Joy of joys.>>>Mine is just ending…grrrrr<<<The drive home was a bit slow>>>Drive over the hippies, faster that way.<<<Unfortunately, this may rule out Gathering,>>>Um no. You are going to be there and I am going to kick your butt.<<<You two need lives.>>>He knew that I needed my Gargoyles fix…due to the fact that I have crappy cable.<<<You may find this shocking, but just because you have large breasts doesn't make you the center of attention.>>>I know. In the past when people talk about big breasts I ended being talked about.<<<You wouldn't know>>>Actually…I do…now.<<<Bullsh*t. You bounce them every time you move.>>>Not if I’m in a veryt tight shirt or bra.<<<But vegetarians taste great!>>>Good for cleansing out the system ,but lay off the hippies.<<<Being weak sucks when you have groceries to carry up 4 flights.>>> Wimp<<<No comment>>>HA!<<<All of them are AWOL.>>>Mara has been lurkin
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Saturday, March 22, 2003 03:47:10 PM
IP: 209.244.148.155

//<< Can anyone help me?>>: No. Stop asking. You come in here every month and post the same damn thing, and I assume you aren't getting a response. So go away.
<<any ideas?>>: Record them yourself? //

thanks for your help, I don't know how my life would be without your help.
I'm asking the same question whenever i wish,as many times as I feel like, and if always I got the same answer there will be no problem. I don't think everybody is the same as you (fortunately) Or do you have any problem with that? Ignore me and I'll ignore you
trok
pamplona, spain
Saturday, March 22, 2003 02:40:28 PM
IP: 80.58.55.170

Click for a funny. A new map of France.
-------------------------

Gabriel:>>That's good news, so why do you have "Dead" on your post in the Station 8 CR?

Josh:<<Its Amsterdam! Gotta watch out for those pot-smoking hippies!>> Visit the Hash and Hemp Museum. It's located accross from gian phallus fountain. (seriously)

Leo - [<-New map of France]
Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:18:52 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

LOL. This is funny...

From www.toostupidtobepresident.com

Top 12 reasons to support celebrities in opposition to war.

12. Somebody has to keep the diplomatic channels open to Europe, and it just happens to be the Dixie-Chix.

11. Two weeks of basic training before filming "Saving Private Ryan" is more military experience than Condoleeza Rice, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney (5 deferments), Tom Delay & Dennis Hastert combined.

10. Don Rumsfeld went to Iraq while Hussein used our chemical weapons on Iranian soldiers (and civilians along the border) and secured the additional shipments to the Iraqi dictator. Sean Penn visited Iraq, but has only used chemicals on himself.

9. Martin Sheen has been arrested 70 times in his pursuit of peace and social justice. George W. Bush's three documented arrests: drunk driving, theft of a Christmas wreath & football hooliganism.

8. MSNBC (General Electric & Microsoft) canceled Donahue, it's highest-rated show, because it offered alternative views.

7. With all of the TV networks recruiting military consultants, why haven't we seen much of Gulf War I's triumphant Stormin' Norman Schwarzkopf? (Blacklisted?)

6. The Pope, a man of some celebrity and moral authority (and an actor in his youth) is against the war.

5. Brit Hume, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh are celebrities, not elected officials or diplomats (incidentally, all avoided service in Vietnam) who make their livelihood shilling for war. Garofalo, Damon et al. risk their livelihoods by opposing it.

4. There is no such thing as apolitical art.

3. "Apocalypse Now!" took 5 years to complete and Martin Sheen saw it all the way through, disease, monsoons and all. George W. Bush skipped the last 17 months of his National Guard service in Texas.

2. Are award shows asking pro-war celebrities to keep their remarks "neutral?"

1. It's their First Amendment right!
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:49:46 AM
IP: 216.179.5.184

This is just too funny.

Bengali> I know a certain Scottish Baron who will be very glad to see you return.

Click on my name for something truly hillarious :)
ghost of Reverend Attila - [<--clickie clickie]
Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:33:07 AM
IP: 136.216.75.2

Gabe >> That's awesome!

Josh >> Re: DU.

Yes, lots of circumstantial evidence. The world scientific community's accepted stance on DU could be completely wrong. Then again, the anti-DU scientific lobby could be wrong as well. At any rate, we continue to expose our own soldiers, dentists, and industrial workers to DU on a daily basis.

The probelm with the circumstantial evidence is that you don't have enough controls on the experiment to separate the factors. Heck, even the separation between radioactivity damage and regular chemical toxin damage isn't clearly made in Gunjack's sources. And then there are - other - toxic exposures you have to worry about, like those giant oil fires raging in Kuwait and Iraq that went of for years after the war. That stuff isn't exactly safe to have in your air or drinking water either.

I don't feel an particular logical compulsion to jump on the DU bandwagon just yet. I'll wait and see in concensus can be reached to such an effect.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:28:50 AM
IP: 66.30.158.19

*Peeks in again*

Josh: When you said that? Well... Sunday, March 16, 2003 05:40:06 AM. Check last week. :)

*Fades away*
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmindATtiscaliDOTno]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, March 22, 2003 07:11:50 AM
IP: 213.142.68.192

Ah, I am home for spring break. Joy of joys. Yesterday was uneventful save the finite element midterm, which I think I did well on. The professor tried to be tricky and you could spend 5 hours doing the first problem if you didn't see the trick. Fortunately, I did. After working on it for 15 minutes. And I discovered when I got back to the apartment that I was accepted to UC Davis. 4 for 4. Not bad.

The drive home was a bit slow, but we eventually got back to LA and I unpacked my massive bag of laundry. Spent most of today running the washing machine and also got in a good workout this morning. Other than that, I did absolutely nothing today and I loved every minute of it.

Unfortunately, the developer's conference that I won a scholarship to was moved back by a month, so I may have to take a week off of work to go. Unfortunately, this may rule out Gathering, but I'll keep an open mind.

***STARGATE SPOILERS***

I can't believe Daniel made that deal. I knew the second he suggested it that it was a bad idea.

Cool episode, but I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't a cliffhanger. New episodes start in June.

***END SPOILERS***

Hmmm...lots of replies to do. Best get started.

Jackal: <<How in God's name did you become an administrator?>>: He was willing to be one and no one else was.
<<Thanks Josh>>: Happy to help.
<>: WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS ;-)
<<Screwing up is my major>>: I didn't know you majored in liberal arts.
<<people think I'm retarded>>: How would this change that?
<<The U.S. government has decided that the families of the victims of the Columbia Shuttle tragedy will not have to pay 2002 income taxes>>: Oh sure, the rest of us will just make up the slack. SCREW THEM! Hazard pay does not cover your family's taxes!
<<Where are their tax breaks?>>: Even better, their families get inheritance tax, which is much higher than regular income!

Bud-Clare: <>: So, is that maturing or not?
<<What romance?>>: The one he imagines.
<<Don't say that until you've heard the price>>: No price is too high to watch.
<<you aren't even going to pay?>>: That would be one of the perks of being omnipresent.
<<Cheap bastard>>: He's a student, what do you want?
<<Good thing I was going to go with the ears in the oven thing (while fully clothed)>>: I don't think being naked would make that much more pleasant. You'd probably be too busy writing in sympathetic pain to be aroused.
<<we're just too ignorant to follow your superior humor>>: Or sarcasm just doesn't carry through text, something we seem to have yet to figure out here.
<<everyone is being so nice to me this week>>: They must want something.
<<Who wouldn't retire to a nice tropical island somewhere if they had the chance?>>: Bill Gates. I'm betting he stays in his house. I would if I had it.
<<Like he cares.>>: True, he isn't as picky as I am. Which would explain a lot.
<<Your point?>>: Is just beyond your grasp ;-)
<<your special Josh-logic>>: I didn't know there WAS josh-logic. Would you enlighten me as to how its different from the regular stuff?
<<?>>: A poop flinging monkey hit my science teacher when we visited the zoo in 7th grade.
<<He'll make do with whatever he can get>>: So desperate.
<<Does anyone but you find your jokes funny?>>: Someone might, but they're probably lurking ;-)
<<Too bad I wasn't this popular in high school.>>: You couldn't find three people in high school who liked you?
<>: He's killing lots of people violently, sounds like a win-win for the dark prince to me.
<<We all deny it at first>>: Yeah, in 8th grade. No longer!
<>: Unless they fail to deliver, in which case you have to go pick it up anyway.
<<tough to disprove>>: As homer simpson said, "You can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true" ;-)
<<My definition of idiot is much broader than most people's>>: That comes from being a cynical engineer. I feel the same way.
<<Sue me>>: You're a college student, what could he get? Some inflatable furniture?
<<these necessary and sufficient conditions can generally be summed up as "success." i.e if a person is successful, they must be intelligent>>: Good point, well put.
<<That proves that he's good at taking tests and b.s.ing the occasional paper>>: Actually, it doesn't even prove that 8-)
<<Josh, for instance, values engineers above all others>>: No, not true. I just don't recognize the ability to write a 5-page paper in 2 hours at 430AM as "intelligence", nor do I recognize the insistence that installing cabinets is somehow like structural analysis on a nuclear power plant as "intelligence".
<<There's a reason why inarticulate introverts aren't elected president>>: Unfortunately, they are. And we did.
<<don't even get me started about her cat.>>: Her cat is stupid? Or she behaves stupidly concerning her cat?

Attila: <<We will meet that threat now with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of firefighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities>>: Isn't that what already happened?
<<If George Bush lines the Democratic Senators up against a wall and has them machine-gunned by the Army, let me know. I'll join in calling America fascist>>: I'll throw a party! j/k
<<he hates America, cheats on his wife, and wears a beret voluntarily>>: LOL!

Mooncat: <<My kitties only bring me things like garter snakes and young rabbits>>: My cats bring me mice and birds.
<<picked up a TiVo today>>: Tivo is a godsend. Mostly because of its massive hard drive space. But the commercial skipping is useful too. I can't wait to own one.
<<found out it needs a Land Line to work>>: Man, I knew KS was the boonies, but no land lines?!
<<there is a way to hook to the net by using a usb to ethernet adapter (TiVo series two have usb ports) and then hooking into a router. Going to give that a try>>: Doesn't that method require taking out the hard drive, plugging it into a computer, and booting off the on-board Linux OS to screw with the drivers? Or is it just plug and play? I remember my friends adding an ethernet card to their TiVo so they could do something similar, and it took the better part of a night of Linux hacking. In any case, best of luck getting it to work. And never worry about missing a show again 8-)

Trok: << Can anyone help me?>>: No. Stop asking. You come in here every month and post the same damn thing, and I assume you aren't getting a response. So go away.
<<any ideas?>>: Record them yourself?

Kaioto: <<The phrase "limousine liberal" rings a lot of bells here>>: There are so few of those anymore. Except in Los Angeles and New York.
<<If you want to believe what they claim over what others claim>>: From a third party, it does look as if you're behaving the same way.
<>: This is a good point. The only perfectly harmless way to blow things up would be to project a wall of force. Sadly, we aren't jedi yet.
<<A substance 1.7 times more dense than lead is toxic when taken into the body>>: I don't think this is the problem that people have with DU. I think what concerns them is the long term effects which, while not conclusively proven, have too much circumstantial evidence to outright ignore. I'm sure gunjack will agree that in war, its okay to kill your opponent before he kills you. But I don't think he'd agree that its acceptable to use a weapon that will kill your opponent and make sure anyone near him dies slowly and painfully over the next few years and that his children develop horrible birth defects. Christ, that sounds like a war crime to me.
<<I definitely don't have the balls or ambition to volunteer to go through years and years of training just to have the government strap me to the back of a giant rocket and shoot me off through the atmosphere into hard vacuum in the name of science>>: In the old days they strapped you to the front of the rocket. Would that be more your style? ;-)
<<protestors violated traffic laws and got themselves arrested for a while>>: YES!
<<they started assaulting people who gave them the thumbs down, the middle finger, or raised a voice to challenge one of their witty slogans>>: Welcome to Berkeley.
<<The senior citizen proved more than the protester-turned-thug could handle>>: HAHAHA anti-hippy justice is served!

Gunjack: Hey dude there's some toxin called Risin(?), my mother was wonder how its pronounced. Help?
<<Is this not a "to the man" argument?>>: No, its an ad hominem attack... ;-)
<<the UN is crippled by the fact that it's a collection of all nations>>: I'd agree. In particular, I don't like the way the security council is set up. I don't know if its still done this way, but once upon a time it was the 5 nuclear nations and the other 15 spots were "rotated" by random other countries. Why does everyone nuclear get a say in world security?
<<He recieved prestigious degrees from two of our nation's best schools. He ran a highly successful business. He ran our STATE>>: Again, none of these things mean anything. Berkeley's Rhodes Scholar this year is an ethically depraved cheater. Business success can be skill or luck. You don't need to be smart to win votes, nor is the entire control of the state in his hands such that he could be "smart" enough to entirely account for its success (or failure, for that matter).
<<Doesn't THAT seem like a rather odd measure for the leader of America?>>: No, precisely BECAUSE he is the leader of America. I can tolerate him being not-so-great at geometry, but I expect him to have full command of the english language. Okay so maybe he isn't an idiot, per se. But he certainly behaves as if he lacks education, and I don't think that's an acceptable quality for our leader.

Leo: <<Could it be because CNN is brodcasting to the entire world every possible strategy (and their drawbacks) the US could use against him?>>: Yes, I noticed this too. I think its really silly that he can just turn on his TV and know which bunker NOT to be in. My mother earlier was confused at how we could dump so much explosive into a bunker we "knew" he was hiding in and not kill him. I explained the concept of underground tunnels and the stupidity of allowing the media in.
<<MONICA LEWINSKY (sp?) is slated to be the host of a new reality tv show>>: We are officially in hell.

Spacebabie: <<We spent time online, in his room watching his Gargoyles tapes, and a few eps on Toon Disney>>: You two need lives.
<<I’m not going to mention anything that will make people gag from sappy cuddly stuff>>: Thank you.
<<There was a huge breast conversation and I wasn’t brought up>>: You may find this shocking, but just because you have large breasts doesn't make you the center of attention. Large breasts just means implants or fatass.
<<Chips are the stuff found in bags marked “Ruffles” and “Lays” and in canisters marked “Pringles”>>: Amen!
<<Oh yes!>>: You wouldn't know.
<<we only bounce them for our lovers>>: Bullsh*t. You bounce them every time you move.
<<A PETA member would give me a tummy ache>>: But vegetarians taste great!
<>: As Attila pointed out, they can also win when a frenchman isn't leading the army.
<<You like to hold, don’t cha?>>: Sure, why not.
<>: Not something I'd want for my girlfriend, but boobies are better than no boobies.
<<it’s okay for women to do apes>>: Its not my fault women have such terrible taste.
<<Do you talk about structure and engineering they used back in Ren times?>>: Yup.
<<Trying to get buff so your ass kicking wont be so harsh>>: No, I'm trying to get buff so I can be more functional. Being weak sucks when you have groceries to carry up 4 flights.
<<Guess what? There will be more>>: I know. It saddens me.
<<this is why you don’t have a girlfriend>>: No comment.
<>: No complaints.
<<there are three others>>: All of them are AWOL.
<<what about Ashcroft? Can we get rid of that nazi?>>: PLEASE!

Gabriel: <<interesting>>: Its Amsterdam! Gotta watch out for those pot-smoking hippies! ;-)
<<my grandpa began to move>>: That's great!
<<Thank God, too! *avoids that debate*>>: This atheist is not bothered by you thanking god for a good thing happening.

Question: <<Optimus Prime>>: That was pretty funny. My friend sent me the link also, telling me he's changing his name to Megatron. I demanded to be soundwave, and I told him I'd start talking like that too.
<<In Ruby Eyes Brooklyn says that it was really fun knowing Napoleon so there has to be an untold story there>>: Although the setting of TD is all over space-time, I think it plays out as it happens to Brooklyn (or at least that's the way it appeared). Thus, if Brooklyn already mentioned seeing Napoleon but they didn't write the episode, I don't think they're going to. But that's just my understanding of the series.
<<there has to be an untold story there>>: Yes, but no one said it had to be told ;-)

Gside: <<Whatever you call it that we can do to convince femalse to make the bouncies do what we want>>: Romance, defined as whatever gets the other person out of their clothing.
<< Anything's a step up>>: Be careful what you wish for.
<<Doubleclutched return>>: Typing too fast?
<<How do you know I haven't?>>: Because you're still complaining about how any is better than none.
<<they just weren't funded by the government>>: Bus drivers? Cops?
<<are there as many short ups and downs as in volleyball?>>: Only women on trampolines does that.
<<It shall be destroyed in the most painful way possible>>: Amen. It is an abomination!

Lila: <<Can't they go hug a tree in some park or something, instead of messing up commuters?>>: Sadly, no. They need the attention.
<<I'm not a pervert!>>: Well why not?!
<<Why do you think I avoid so many of the conversations in this room>>: Ewww, you're "innocent"!
<>: Which is why you fit in here.
<<you could just take some hot chick with low self esteem. They'd put out with minimal complications>>: Ah, that brings back memories...
<<Satanic female manipulation guru>>: You're male?
<<guess what I did on Wednesday? Oh, a sunny drive on the PCH and a trip to the aquarium>>: Now that I'm back in LA, I can do the same thing!
<<It took waaayyyy to long to catch up on all the reading I've been avoiding in here>>: Spent about 2 hours on this post.

Niamhgold: <>: Goody two-shoes.
<<perhaps I can self-induce a spring break>>: Reset your priorities.
<<it worries me, because they say that if you don't receive notification, you should send another application>>: You didn't send it return receipt?
<>: The best scenario for me this summer unfortunately puts me in with 3 roommates.
<<I'm now registered for 19.5 credits next fall>>: YOU ARE SICK. I'll be registered for 9 units next fall 8-)
<<Hooray for boobies. I guess>>: Discouraged?
<< how about soy milk?>>: I am not willing to experiment with liquid chalk.
<<Welcome to the economic downturn>>: Not for civil engineers. The dot-com boom was our economic downturn.
<<and more mature>>: OUCH.
<<The FDA is about to approve several, actually>>: Sweet. That will make my life much easier. Or it would, if I got laid with any frequency.
<<such valuable logic>>: If by valuable you mean broken.
<<don't drink the water>>: Apparently the biggest expense of the trip is bottled water.
<< *If* we can>>: She can.
<<Lays. If only they came in a bag>>: They do. Check your local market. If you don't mean that kind of lay, try your local want ads.
<<how the male pill could simultaneously battle hair-loss>>: I'll take two!
<<all the men I've asked about it>>: Well there is your first logical flaw. You only know men in a specific demographic.
<<The best method is to have both parties using *approved* chemical contraceptives>>: Add a condom and the statistical chance of becoming pregnant drops to 7 in 10000 (assuming male "pills" have the same chances as female pills). Not bad.
<<3D Max boobies defy gravity>>: Of course they do. They're fake, after all.
<<Always has been>>: I've had good french food. Once. In Hawaii. Maybe it was only good because I was there.

Greg X: <<Silent Bob doesn't carry a katana>>: Maybe he should.
<<would it be an abuse of power to ban them? And would you all mind?>>: Yes. No.
<<Some geek out there should change his name to Megatron and try and kill him>>: I nominate you. But my friend wants the name already, so you may have to beat him up for it.
<<Dubya went to Yale AFTER flunking out of the University of Texas>>: Some poor soul didn't get into Yale because of this.
<<he went AWOL from his National Guard Duty>>: Maybe he was "smart" enough not to show up and defend his country.
<<Bush only graduated from Yale with a C average>>: Maybe he was just so smart that he was bored! Yeah, that's it! ;-)

Jan: <<Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School>>: Neither of these mean anything. There are plenty of stupid people at every major and prestigious university. Even if he had a high GPA, this also means nothing. GPA/major/school is not a reflection of intelligence, but a reflection of one's ability to manipulate and work within the system.
<<you can't "buy" degrees from these schools>>: You're kidding, right? Few people EVER fail out of Ivy League schools. Grade inflation runs rampant and high graduation rate is a selling point for colleges. There are plenty of people with degrees who aren't all that intelligent.
<<They don't allow morons or idiots to be pilots for these planes>>: Jet jocks did not have the education requirements back then that they do now. Now pilots are some of the smartest people around: talented mechanics and scientists. Then, they were anyone who could fly a plane.
<<He began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986. He was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic re-election victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the vote. In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican other than Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate to win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo>>: None of this makes him intelligent.
<<Idiots/morons are rarely successful>>: WRONG. Idiots/morons are often successful for being in the right place at the right time (luck) or by attaching their name to a project that makes a big splash.
<<There are no facts to back this up>>: Listening to the man speak is a reflection at least on his studies of the english language. For someone born and raised in this country, for the leader of the free world, for the representative of our country, and for someone who graduated with an MBA, you'd think he could properly remember famous quotes/metaphors (and if he couldn't, they are on the teleprompters in front of him so he could READ them) and how to pronounce important words related to his presidency.

Yggdrasil: <<the development of some female secondary sexual characteristics can occur>>: Give it to Gside, he can make his own bouncies!
<<Male birth control>>: Very interesting.

Fire Storm: <<They are cruel for ending it like that>>: Sorry you were disappointed.

Godiva: <>: Best day for disneyland is a wednesday in october.
<<Has anyone had this problem with Outlook Express?>>: I know we look like tech support in here because we're all using a computer, but its really not the same thing. CALL TECH SUPPORT. You know, the people who get paid to fix these things?
<<Too bad you couldn't have had that baby before your grandmother passed away>>: Someone actually said that to you?! That's awful. As if you had a choice in the matter!
<<Be nice, kitty>>: As if that would stop him.
<<Like what? Just the juicy details will do.>>: Logically, if I say "everything", it would take at least the total time of existence to explain it to you. Even if I just tell you "the juicy details". So everything stands.
<<Enlighten me, Lord Josh>>: It could be neither on nor canned. As in, it could be getting written now.

Warpmind: <<You'd just reproduce when you're in desperate need of carnal satisfaction?>>: When did I say that?
<<Ye Gods, you're planning to *reproduce*?>>: Not that I know of. In fact, I'm specifically planning on NOT reproducing.
<<France has had TWO civil wars... And they won both>>: SHOCK.

Okay, finally time for bed. After 2 hours.

157. Whenever plans are drawn up that include a time-table, I'll post-date the completion 3 days after it's actually scheduled to occur and not worry too much if they get stolen.
Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Saturday, March 22, 2003 04:53:31 AM
IP: 67.117.15.148

*Warpmind wobbles in*
Ooog... hectic week... Driving class lasting late enough to make me wait ninety minutes for a bus going my way... goddamn MASSIVE aluminium signs needing to be assembled... and making a jigsaw puzzle - about 2x4 ft. - for one of the local banks. *Wheeze* At least, next week we'll have a goblin there from school. And he'll be MY responsibility... my little slaveboy, if you like. *Evil grin* And we have a LOT of very small, mundane jobs lying around. }:) I'm feeling cheerful already.

Gside: Fortunately, dimples aren't my concern - the boss (who is an avid golfer, mind) already had the logo prepared and printed; I just had to glue the little stickers onto the signs.

Josh: You'd just reproduce when you're in desperate need of carnal satisfaction? *Blink* Ye Gods, you're planning to *reproduce*? Heaven preserve us... ;)

Hey! Lain and Gunjy have returned! Where have ya been, you two? I haven't seen you online for AGES!

Ghost of Reverend Attila: Lovely list of French war history... but you neglected to mention that, in fact, France has had TWO civil wars... And they won both. ;)

Dezi: *Glare* At a 64K line, downloading stuff like that is right out the window. *Ponder* But then, I will apparently be equipped with a computer of my own at work when we move into the new building... and a broadband connection at work... *Evil grin*

Oh, well, I guess I'll drop the post right there... The war debate does not tickle my fancy, so...
Later.
Warpmind de InzanE - [warpmindATtiscaliDOTno]
Middle, Nowhere, Norway
Saturday, March 22, 2003 04:33:04 AM
IP: 213.142.70.248

Gabe! Dude! That's awesome! Maybe the storm's clearing some, *sends major Texan Hugs*
V
Saturday, March 22, 2003 02:20:12 AM
IP: 65.93.72.182

YAAAAAAY!!!! BIG SNUGGLES FOR GABE!!!!
lain
Saturday, March 22, 2003 02:05:50 AM
IP: 65.93.72.55

Godivia - <Um, let me see...It's a link from the Current
Episode page, under Episode Archive. Is there another link that I don't know about? > Well, I was thinking there might be a copying error. I just tried the link on the Current Episode page to the Bad Guys site with both Netscape and Internet Explorer. Still no problems. It should be going towards http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/bg/index.html . I can't find your bad link. Where is the bad link taking you?
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, March 22, 2003 01:56:14 AM
IP: 204.94.193.63

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts, prayers, etc. As it turns out, my grandpa began to move his mouth, his eyes (I think) and his shoulders. Not only that, but hisbrain activity has gone up! All of which means he's staying plugged in :D. Thank God, too! *avoids that debate*
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Saturday, March 22, 2003 01:47:58 AM
IP: 66.169.209.155

And Bush only graduated from Yale with a C average ;)
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:27:44 AM
IP: 216.179.1.117

Damn it! I was supposed to be at Disneyland today. :`( But the hubby and my youngest son were sick, so we had to postpone the trip. All I gotta say is that we better go in two weeks like the hubby is saying. If not, then KAPOW! right to the kisser. (Yeah, I'm just a little miffed. We've been planning this trip to Disneyland ever since Christmas when my folks gave us the tickets as a Christmas present. We were supposed to go when our refund check came -- ah, the joys of e-filing -- but for some reason or another, we didn't.)

Has anyone had this problem with Outlook Express? On Tuesday, while I was going through my email, I noticed that the window where my contacts were in was flickering. I didn't really pay any attention to it. I finished what I was doing and closed Outlook Express. Shortly after that, the computer crashed. I restarted it. After Windows loaded, this message popped up:

Your Address Book data file 'C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\Microsoft\Address Book\Administrator.wab' appears to be corrupt and cannot be used.
The Address Book will now attempt to restore the data from your backup data file, which was automatically saved from your last session.
Any changes you may have already made in this current session will be lost, but any further changes made after you restore from the backup will be saved.

I clicked OK, and this immediately popped up:

The Address Book file 'C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\Microsoft\Address Book\Administrator.wab' could not be restored from the backup. Unable to proceed.

Any ideas on what happened or if it can be fixed? I had just cleaned up my contacts by putting family addresses and friends addresses in separate folders so it wouldn't look so cluttered. David tried to figure it out, but he couldn't and it seems like it's done the same thing to his contact list. I'm not really sure, since we have separate email accounts, but the main list, where all the junk mail goes has lost all of its contacts. If this has happened to anyone else, I'd appreciate your help.

****************

REPLIES:

Gabe--Sorry to hear about your family. You'll be in my thoughts. Just be glad that you don't have any insensitive family members coming up to you and saying, "Too bad you couldn't have had that baby before your grandmother passed away." Said to me on December 26, 1991 after my grandmother's funeral. I had my son on January 14, 1992. Not something I really wanted or needed to hear, since that was already going though my mind since she told me that she wasn't going to leave until she saw her first great-grandchild. Nice, huh?

ghost of Reverend Attila--<<Goes off to harass Godiva>> Be nice, kitty.

DPH--<<Which pages is that the bad link on? I just tried the link and it works.>>Um, let me see...It's a link from the Current Episode page, under Episode Archive. Is there another link that I don't know about?

Gside--<<Same old same old.>> Ahh, just more you proclaiming that you are a sexy, sexy man. Okay.

Josh--<<Everything.>> Like what? Just the juicy details will do. <<You know, there is a third option.>> Enlighten me, Lord Josh.

Spacebabie--<<Godiva and Bengali welcome back>> Thnaks, Spacebabie. It's nice to be back.

Godiva - [reneeprater@adelphia.net]
Acme Acres, Tiny Toons, Warner Bros.
Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:25:32 AM
IP: 24.52.251.149

But don't forget people... Dubya went to Yale AFTER flunking out of the University of Texas. Only way I could conceive of that happening is because of his "daddy". And he went AWOL from his National Guard Duty ;)

He's a moron in every sense of the word. Just look at the man. I mean really look at him.

I'd respect conservatives more if they stopped insisting that he's a "great President", and just admit what everyone already knows. The man (and I use the term loosely) is a tool for his party and the upper 1%. I'm a Democrat and I admit Clinton was a lousy President with little moral fiber.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:22:26 AM
IP: 216.179.1.117

Gunjack> <<True, but you're kinda ignoring the entire rest of her post, aren't you?>>
No, you're just assuming that I am. If things seemed to be left out, it's because I felt no particular urge to write a novel on the subject. Sue me.

<<The IQ part was just there to counter the claims that Bush has "the lowest IQ of any president".>>
And I only used "I.Q." because it was convenient. Her entire argument was that all someone needs to do in order to be considered "intelligent" is to just through a few hoops that society has decided are necessary and sufficient conditions for intelligence. _But_ these necessary and sufficient conditions can generally be summed up as "success." i.e if a person is successful, they must be intelligent. If you want to use that definition, fine, that's your business. Just don't expect everyone to share it.

<<He recieved prestigious degrees from two of our nation's best schools.>>
So? That proves that he's good at taking tests and b.s.ing the occasional paper.

<<He ran a highly successful business. He ran our STATE.>>
Still not impressed. The problem here is that running a business requires a highly _specific_ form of intelligence, as does running a state. Being intelligent in one area does not say anything about one's intelligence in any other area. And, like everyone else in the world, I'm more than a little biased, so I value some forms of intelligence more than others. Josh, for instance, values engineers above all others. I don't agree with him, but you don't agree with me, so it all evens out. The point is... that's all just life.

<<Funny... Because based on this post, it seems your definition of Bush's intelligence is based primarily on his shortcomings as a public speaker.>>
Yeah, that's exactly it. I'm basing all opinions of his intelligence on his mispronunciation of one word. Did it ever occur to you that maybe I just didn't _bother_ giving actual examples because I didn't see the point? The issue here is not, to my mind, whether or not Bush is intelligent or not (as that is something that can never be wholly settled, for reasons that I've already given). My problem was with the presumption that one person's definition of intelligence ought to be _everyone's_ definition. I'm afraid that the world just doesn't work that way.

<<Doesn't THAT seem like a rather odd measure for the leader of America?>>
Not entirely. There's a reason why inarticulate introverts aren't elected president. But that wasn't what I was saying, anyway, so it's moot. :P

<<Maybe it would help to give your definition of "idiot"?>>
...Someone who behaves in an idiotic fashion, in my opinion? What exactly do you want? It's not like calling someone "male" or "female"; it's just a judgement call. My roommate is of "above average intelligence", if you talked to her for a few minutes about the weather or something, you'd think that she seems intelligent enough... and yet she doesn't use soap when she washes her dishes. She also puts a greasy aluminum tray in my dish drainer (with my clean dishes), despite the fact that, since she has made no effort to clean it whatsoever, it logically doesn't need to dry. She is about to graduate from college, she may eventually be relatively successful... but she's stupid. There are no tests currently in existence that will support this belief of mine, but she just is. (And don't even get me started about her cat.)

<<Or perhaps examples (real ones, not slips of the lip; are stutterers idiots?) of how Bush fits this definition?>>
A) It's not a slip of the lip. He does it too damned often. (Or so I've heard. Never felt the urge to count, myself.)
B) You're gravely mistaken if you think that I'm going to waste that much time on him. It may be entertaining enough debating the definition of intelligence, but I'll be damned if I'm going to go through the effort of trying to "prove" my opinion of him. (And I'm sure that there are plenty of other people who would love to give some examples, anyway.)

<<It might help the communication a bit...>>
What communication? I can think of a million things that I'd rather do with my time than have a debate over Bush's intelligence level. Unfortunately, homework is my current alternative, so I've been slacking off in here instead. *checks clock and winces* And, it's time to stop... I still have to write several pages of an essay tonight. (Too bad I can't just use what I've written just now for it; I'd be half done already. ;)
**********************************
Gside> <<As am I, which is why I'm falling back on my omnipresence.>>
Maybe you'll just have to owe me.

<<It shall be destroyed in the most painful way possible.>>
Not the chocolate, I hope. It's nutritious, but it doesn't taste like it. ;)
***************************
I really am going to do homework now. I mean it. *sighs* Damn distractions...
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, March 21, 2003 11:40:22 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Bud Clare> <<Too bad I wasn't this popular in high school>>: Different standards of cool. Which still hasn't helped me.
<<Of course it's money. I'm a college student, aren't I?>>: As am I, which is why I'm falling back on my omnipresence.

DPH> <<a piano, cello, clarinet, and baritone singer>>: No one will hear the clarinet. But then, no one hears the clarinets anyway.

Lila> <<I'm not a pervert>>: Come, join the dark side.
<<it just doesn't seem fair>>: I wouldn't say unfair as much as assymetric. Though that's not stopping me fron enjoying it.
<<You can find those girls>>: How do you know I haven't?
<<I'm like a Satanic female manipulation guru>>: We need more of them.

Jackal> <<Are these deaths any less significant?>>: No, they just weren't funded by the government.

Niamhgold> <<I'm now registered for 19.5 credits next fall>>: Worst I ever did was a couple times at 18. But enjoy if you can.
<<Have you been watching all the Matrix animations?>>: No, but you reccommend them? And are there as many short ups and downs as in volleyball?
<<how about soy milk?>>: It shall be destroyed in the most painful way possible.
<<Have fun, don't drink the water!>>: But I have been drinking the water. And it's Jersey water.
<<If only they came in a bag>>: I'd buy as many bags as I could carry.

Gunjack> <<What is wrong with the UN, and what can be done to fix it?>>: Too many people with too many opinions to get anything big done in a reasonable amount of time. Nothing can really be done about that, but perhaps if military matters were given a seperate organization with different rules, while leaving the UN for dealsmaking and whatnot.

Fire Storm> <<What is wrong with the UN, and what can be done to fix it?>>: No, "I love you" "I love you" "Boom" "To be continued" is a perfectly acceptable epilogue in classic literature. Actually, I'm now putting my hopes in movies.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, March 21, 2003 10:40:25 PM
IP: 68.38.240.227

Maybe it would help to give your definition of "idiot"? Or perhaps examples (real ones, not slips of the lip; are stutterers idiots?) of how Bush fits this definition? It might help the communication a bit...
V
Friday, March 21, 2003 10:30:42 PM
IP: 65.93.72.83

Bud-Clare><<My definition of idiot is much broader than most people's. Having a high I.Q. does not ensure any kind of practical intelligence.>> True, but you're kinda ignoring the entire rest of her post, aren't you? The IQ part was just there to counter the claims that Bush has "the lowest IQ of any president".
He recieved prestigious degrees from two of our nation's best schools. He ran a highly successful business. He ran our STATE.
<<In fact, your definition is actually bizarrely elitest (and coming from me, that's saying something).>> Funny... Because based on this post, it seems your definition of Bush's intelligence is based primarily on his shortcomings as a public speaker. Doesn't THAT seem like a rather odd measure for the leader of America?
V
Friday, March 21, 2003 10:24:01 PM
IP: 65.93.72.83

Jan> <<Idiots/morons are rarely successful.>>
My definition of idiot is much broader than most people's. Having a high I.Q. does not ensure any kind of practical intelligence.

He can't even pronounce "nuclear", for crying out loud.

<>
But shouldn't it? (Not the moral fiber, the common sense.) How can a person in all honesty be called intelligent if they have no common sense at all? Any definition of intelligence is, essentially, arbitrary. As such, you can't honestly expect everyone to have the same standards as you do. In fact, your definition is actually bizarrely elitest (and coming from me, that's saying something). Why should a person with a high I.Q. but no common sense (and therefore, no way to practically apply that intelligence) be considered more intelligent than some who has a lower I.Q., but _has_ common sense, and is therefore apply to make better use of their intelligence than the other person? An I.Q. is something that you are born with, and therefore have no control over. Actual intelligence, IMO, is something that people _do_ have some degree of control over.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, March 21, 2003 10:14:52 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Quickie Post!

First and foremost - we now have the covers to Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix! (Yes, I'm a rabid Potter fan) Go to www.the-leaky-cauldron.org to see them.

Jan><Right on! ^_^

I'll write more later.

N'cha!
Bengali - [delphu@netscape.net]
Friday, March 21, 2003 09:47:56 PM
IP: 172.168.118.120

Ahh, Here it is.

That is..., if you REALLY want to read it. :p
Leo - [<-"Mr Personality"]
Friday, March 21, 2003 09:44:18 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Yeah, I'm pretty tired of hearing claims of how my president is a brain-dead deficient. You tell 'em, Jan! GO TEXAS!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
V
Friday, March 21, 2003 09:39:36 PM
IP: 65.93.72.83

More evidence that the entertainment industry in this country is going to hell.

MONICA LEWINSKY (sp?) is slated to be the host of a new reality tv show. !!!!!!!!!!!

(will post the link when I find it again)
Leo
Friday, March 21, 2003 09:27:43 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

I just saw the Farscape series finale...

They are cruel for ending it like that.

VERY cruel.
Fire Storm
Friday, March 21, 2003 09:05:52 PM
IP: 66.72.188.24

Greetings;

Niamhgold: The site you gave was interesting, but I prefer to go right to the primary sources concerning research trials. My comment about female chemical contraception being "natural" was a bit of a misnomer. The drugs themselves are not natural but the response that they trigger is a natural feedback. As I stated earlier the hormones in the contraceptive halt the release of FSH from the pituitary gland. This is a normal response to pregnancy and as such the effect of the contraceptive is to artificially stimulate a natural response.

The hormonal therapies in males are quite different as they rely on hormone agonists, which block or compete with receptor sites in the target organ. The site you listed did not go into a great deal of detail about the side effects, but this information can be found in some of the references and in some of the primary resources (also I would strongly recommend going to PubMed, an online journal index). If you have access to a university account you may be able to access the journals electronically.

As I stated the side effects for male chemical/hormonal contraceptives are quite severe when compared to the female alternatives at this time. Mood changes are pronounced as well as their being reduced sex drive, testicular atrophy and unless the hormonal mix is tailored to the individual, the development of some female secondary sexual characteristics can occur (feminization). The last one only occurred in a small percentage of the test subjects (Silverthorne et al., 2002).

I do think that these devices will be available in the future but the problem is that the biological switch for spermatogenesis is also responsible for a great many other things, as such throwing it with hormones may not be the ideal solution. I failed to mention one major difference between males and females in my last post. The process of gametogenesis is complete in females while they are still in the embryological stages of development. You may have heard that a woman is born with all the eggs she will ever have. In males gametogenesis never stops and millions of sperm mature every day. In order for a contraceptive to work you must ensure that all spermatogenesis is halted and in practice this is very difficult to accomplish without having a pronounced effect of the male.

Hormones really aren't my area of expertise, but I do know that shutting down gametogenesis is in many cases like turning off the master key, you also close off allot of other systems. I'm certain that this technology will progress and in about 10 years we may have a suitable method, probably immunological, that will be marketable. Lila's initial post was in regards to why there were so few options for male contraceptive. The reason is quite complex, but it can be summed up as follows. The male reproductive system is harder to control using pharmalacological means. This difficulty is further hampered by the side effects that occur using conventional hormone based treatments. Our understanding is growing, but more research is needed. The birth control pill was a discovery that was based upon a characterized physiological event, one that is reasonable easy to induce in a subject. This is not the case for males at this time.

Your sociological reasons are probably also correct, but when you look at the physiological barriers in place there still remains a strong technical challenge to be overcome.

Goodnight
Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Friday, March 21, 2003 08:47:41 PM
IP: 66.185.84.203

Bud-Claire> <<Except that I only called Bush an idiot, so it's a moot point... (Although I suppose that's rude, too. But also tough to disprove. ;) >> Tough to disprove? Not at all...

President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School.(His Bush name and money might have gotten him into these schools - which has never been proven to the be case - but you can't "buy" degrees from these schools.) He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard. (They don't allow morons or idiots to be pilots for these planes) He began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986. He was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic re-election victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the vote. In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican other than Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate to win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo. (Someone began circulating a false story about his I.Q. being lower than any other President. If you believed it, you might want to go to URBANLEGENDS.COM and see the truth.)
Idiots/morons are rarely successful.

Personally, I'm tired of people calling President Bush stupid, a moron, an idiot, etc. There are no facts to back this up. I hate bill clinton and yet I will not deny that he has an above average intelligence... which has nothing to do with his moral fiber or common sense. If you wish to say that you think that the actions taken by President Bush are stupid - that's one thing.. but to continue calling HIM stupid or a moron is unfounded.

*goes back to luckerland and waits for Kiaoto's next post*

Jan
Friday, March 21, 2003 08:37:43 PM
IP: 12.215.181.120

Busy with work. Replies later, Kai, oh yes, there WILL be replies.

For now, passing two things on for Lain. First, she heard on the BBC just now that a dirty bomber had just been captured in America; also, one of the bombers might have had a canadian passport, and someone seems to have opined that "the planning is on a level with the 9/11 attacks". There's nothing on CNN.com yet, and she wanted to know if anyone had heard anything.

Also, we'd both like the opinions of the room: What is wrong with the UN, and what can be done to fix it? Please, give us something better than "they don't do what we say" or sommat, but go for the real issues.

To start, I'd toss in that the UN is crippled by the fact that it's a collection of all nations. That works great when you just need a forum for discussion among countries, but when it comes time for descisive action against the worlds' problems, giving dangerous nations a say in how they're to be dealt usually brings things to a grinding halt.

More editing to do. Peace.
V
Friday, March 21, 2003 08:04:51 PM
IP: 65.93.72.83

Lila> <<I'm not a pervert! Why do you think I avoid so many of the conversations in this room, eh?>>
We all deny it at first... ;)

<>
I ordered it from Amazon, so I don't have to leave the house for it. :P
*************************
JacKaL> <<But since Bush doesn't post in here, I don't imagine you'll be threatened with being banned.>>
Do you even know how to read?
************************
Niamhgold> <<And I'm now registered for 19.5 credits next fall.>>
Ouch. Condolences.
**********************
Greg> <<Hey, who says this out of curiosity? I'd really like to know.>>
No one, that I know of. It just seemed more reasonable.

<<Hey, celebrities and politicians are fair game.>>
Except that I only called Bush an idiot, so it's a moot point... (Although I suppose that's rude, too. But also tough to disprove. ;)
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, March 21, 2003 05:55:40 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

LEO> <<(Sorry, I just had this uncontrolable urge to compare Greg to Silent Bob)>>

Trust me, you weren't the first person to do this, and I doubt you'll be the last. Well, if I shaved my goatee, chopped off most of my hair, and stopped wearing a black leather coat today, you'd probably be the last, but I really don't want to do that. Also, Silent Bob doesn't carry a katana ;)

Though actually, I'm considering dying my hair white, or a really pale grey. Maybe the comparisons to Silent Bob would stop if I did that ;)

BUD-CLARE> <<(Actually, I'm kind of surprised that he isn't flattered by the comparison... he usually goes for that kind of thing.)>>

Oh, I was flattered, I was very flattered.

<<No, usually people just say that he _looks_ like a mass-murderer, and I'm pretty sure he does _that_ on purpose. :P>>

Hey, who says this out of curiosity? I'd really like to know.

<<I'm amused by reports of protestors calling Bush Satan. I would have thought that Satan would be a bit brighter... >>

Nah, good old Lucifer has much better things to do. Like running his piano bar in Los Angeles with his girlfriend; Mazikeen.

SPACEBABIE> <<I’m not going to mention anything that will make people gag from sappy cuddly stuff, and that is only because I’m walking on endorphins>>

Okay people, if Spacebabie or Revel to start talking about the nausiating details of their "romance", would it be an abuse of power to ban them? And would you all mind? ;) ;)

That was a joke, for those of you who don't know.

*Saddam Hussein impression (imagine him speaking with a French accent)* Bushie, I was just kidding. it was a joke, here are my weapons of mass destruction, take them all away. Just please, allow me to remain here and torture and kill my people, it gives me great pleasure in life. Take the oil wells. Oh, and you can have my wife's dildo collection too! ;)

<<Greg is the bad one>> Yeah, being the bad cop is fun ;)

<<um what about Ashcroft? Can we get rid of that nazi?..>> Sure, but I was thinking of giving him the Mussolini treatment ;)

THE QUESTION> <<A member of Ohio's 5694th National Guard Unit in Mansfield legally changed his name to a Transformers toy>> Some geek out there should change his name to Megatron and try and kill him ;)

JACKAL <<But since Bush doesn't post in here, I don't imagine you'll be threatened with being banned. >>

Hey, celebrities and politicians are fair game. The Green Baron once stabbed Ted Kennedy in here. It was funny.

PATRICK> <<What that auction should say is "If bidding goes over $100, winning bidder should get their head examined, 'cause these still sell every day for about $10 max on eBay.">>

I know. It's really not hard to get Greg to sign one of these things. And to display my geekness, I have had four Demona figures. One open and displayed on my shelf, one painted and resculpted into Angela, another turned into Delilah, and one in the package signed by Greg o my wall.
Greg Bishansky
Friday, March 21, 2003 02:32:08 PM
IP: 216.179.6.194

Boy, I wish spring break was this week. It's warm and sunny, and, also, I'm busy as all heck ;) Well, considering I haven't missed classes at all this semester...perhaps I can self-induce a spring break ;)

The print lab was incredibly busy last night, but I got my ILM portfolio done. The LucasArts internship app still worries me, though. On their site they say that notification of receipt should come within 10 business days, but I sent that portfolio in February 24th :( However, their deadline was last Friday, so maybe they'll send out a notification of receipt after that? In any case, it worries me, because they say that if you don't receive notification, you should send another application. Yeah, right! It took me five days to prepare that portfolio! ;) In other news, if I get an internship in Hollywood, my friend Hanadi is going to be working at a commercial studio for an internship, too. So I may actually get a decent roommate! And if I'm stuck here for the summer, she's going to sublet her place to me.

Physical therapy again today with the nice looking JHU dude. Sad thing is, I have to inform him I can only make the trip once a week :(

And I'm now registered for 19.5 credits next fall. Stupid 4.5 senior thesis and seminar...all other majors only have a 3 credit thesis class

Replies:

Gside: <But I want to see the pretty girls jump up and down> Have you been watching all the Matrix animations? ;)

Imzadi: <Two birds with one stone!> That's what I'm talking about! :)<Watch the Man Show. More realistic boobies> Hooray for boobies. I guess. <True, but it was only there for a few hours> Now, how about soy milk? <Pay me more!> Welcome to the economic downturn. <Oh well, I'll probably be taking the Apple job anyway, but its nice to have a backup> That's what we're saying about our apartment next year. <Were you a recent participant in the man show's entertainment?> Crank Yankers is more entertaining--and more mature ;) <If it could, we'd be taking pills too> The FDA is about to approve several, actually. <In fact, they should fit entirely in my hands> Good thing I don't go by that rule according to my hands, or else mine would be **really**...wait, nevermind. ;) <Well, he isn't female, so we can safely assume that he doesn't subscribe to YOUR brand of logic> That's because he can't afford the price of inflation on such valuable logic ;) I know ::evil laugh, part three:: <and finished up some random stuff before I leave for spring break in...16 hours!!!> Have fun, don't drink the water!

Spacebabie: Congrats on your fun trip :) <And we only bounce them for our lovers> *If* we can ;) <Sorry Chips are the stuff found in bags marked “Ruffles” and “Lays” and in canisters marked “Pringles”> Hehe. Lays. If only they came in a bag...

I WANT MY SPRING BREAK BACK, DARNIT! ;)

Welcome back Bengali

Yggdrasil and Lila: RE concerning male vs. female contraceptives: True, there are approved and working chemical contraceptives for females, but they are no more "natural" than the ones that are currently on trial for men. In fact, the side effects of using the pill, Depo-Provera, and that new patch for birth control entail many side effects equatable to those that would be experienced by males. Almost all women who are on and have recently stopped using the pill have side-effects, such as nausea, headaches, weight gain, depression, loss of libido, muscle or menstrual problems, anemia, etc. Depo-Provera actually stops menstruation altogether, and when women go off it they cannot attempt to become pregnant for at least twelve months. But in the long term there can be benefits, too--similar benefits that men could experience (think how the male pill could simultaneously battle hair-loss, as how the female pill can protect a little from osteoporosis). And I don't think that the reason there is no male pill is because of society--actually, I think men would line up for such a thing ("anything to not get her pregnant!" ;), and all the men I've asked about it have said, "hell, yeah, I would!"
I think that the main reason more has not been made for men is because of the one-step, two-step situation; i.e., women are the ones who BECOME pregnant, only being one-step displaced from such a situation, and therefore it is within their best interest to be the ones taking contraceptives--just in case the male is either not, or if it doesn't work, or perhaps she gets raped/has sex with another man with whom it is not certain is on a contraceptive method. The best method is to have both parties using *approved* chemical contraceptives (I would never take Depo-Provera and have had my share of problems with different brands of the pill before finding one that did not sorely affect me ;)) in conjunction with something like a condom/sponge/spermicide/diaphragm for protection against STDs. A list of links to current trials can be found here, or click my name for the link http://www.malecontraceptives.org/methods/index.htm

FS: <And you are just figuring this out?> He didn't know you back in The Day. <Chicks here are good looking too... under their coats> Ahem, which coats? The kind they wear, or the kind that grows like fur? <Animated boobs can be more fun, though> Yeah. 3D Max boobies defy gravity ;) <Is French kissing now Freedom kissing?> No. <Is French Cuisine now called crap?> Always has been ;)

Eek, later than I thought. Adios!
Niamhgold
Friday, March 21, 2003 01:55:55 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

Jackal - Re: Astronauts

Tax breaks? Jeez, that's a nice start, I suppose.

Seriously, I know I could get hit by a bus or die in some other tragic accident on or off the job, and I don't expect a tax-break for my next of kin. However, I don't begrudge the astronauts and their families on this one. I consider them an exceptional case, much like soldiers, police officers, and other high-risk occupations that benefit the citizenry.

I definitely don't have the balls or ambition to volunteer to go through years and years of training just to have the government strap me to the back of a giant rocket and shoot me off through the atmosphere into hard vacuum in the name of science.

There are some things that hazard pay just doesn't cover.

In other news,

Tufts and Harvard hemoraged unemployed students living on their parent's money and tenured professors bored with their jobs over the streets of Boston and Cambridge yesterday. It was nice and peaceful as the protestors violated traffic laws and got themselves arrested for a while, then moved on to their rallying points off the major roadways. This was all well and good until they started assaulting people who gave them the thumbs down, the middle finger, or raised a voice to challenge one of their witty slogans.

The Boston Herald today reports a protestor assaulted a 71 year old Korean War veteran first verbally, and when that failed to cow the man, resorted to physical violence. The senior citizen proved more than the protester-turned-thug could handle, however, and police officers quickly separated the two and affirmed that the protestor had initiated the physical violence.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Friday, March 21, 2003 10:07:59 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

<<Optimus Prime is heading out to the Middle East>>
...And people think I'm retarded. I mean, why would someone chang.. ahh forget it.

<<I'm hoping for a nice wartime boost Mayish>>
I know, wouldn't that be nice!

Bud-Clare <<That one was _almost_ funny, but it still didn't even warrant a smile>>
Nah, you just didn't understand me, which is cool, because alot of people don't. And anyway, I'm not here to entertain you, that's the job of the TGS staff.

<<It was childish, mean, and _not_ funny. How could you even joke about something like that?>>
You mean calling someone a Terrorist Supporter?

"I'm amused by reports of protestors calling Bush Satan."

And that amuses you?
Satan, the ultimate evil figure, and being soo evil, a supporter of terrorism. SO I guess if someone wanted to break it down and analyze the hell out of this... It amuses you for Bush to be called a Terrorist Supporter.
Hmmm, you're right. I'm being childish, mean and _not_ funny.
But since Bush doesn't post in here, I don't imagine you'll be threatened with being banned.

Pass the cookies!

Lila - Thanks. And you're right, I need to work on my dipolmacy skills. I'm all lacking in the correct things to say.
I was going for a Yoda there, you picked it out. Even when I'm fussing, I throw in dumb ass jokes that most people don't get. I'm this weird in real life too!

In other news
Whoa, what's this?!
The U.S. government has decided that the families of the victims of the Columbia Shuttle tragedy will not have to pay 2002 income taxes...

What is going on here? Certainly you realize these seven astronauts were not the only people to die in tragic accidents in the United States on that day.
Who knows how many died from heart attacks, cancer, crime, and other causes? Are these deaths any less significant?
Where are their tax breaks?
JacKaL
Friday, March 21, 2003 09:47:46 AM
IP: 152.163.189.68

I hate the whole process of war, I just need to express that and move on. I HATE IT!!! However, I'm not about to join the obnoxious protesters who crowd the already traffic-laden LA streets, grr. Can't they go hug a tree in some park or something, instead of messing up commuters? I'm gonna write an amendment that says peaceful assembly can't violate traffic laws. I am not for the war, but I firmly believe in supporting the poor shmucks fighting for our country... I hate to think that the events following Vietnam will be repeated with these veterens...
On the bright side, tomorrow's supposed to be beautiful, warm and sunny and methinks I shall go surfing, or beach camping, or something glorious...

Replies-
Bud Clare: <<*L* Pervert. I was thinking more of slamming my ears in the oven door, which is good because my ears are too smart (*snickers* I meant "small") to be able to do that.>> I'm not a pervert! Why do you think I avoid so many of the conversations in this room, eh? (Crap, I've gone Canadian... j/k, don't flame me, Canuks...) Yay Dobby references! I SO have the next novel on reserve... I am a DORK!

Gside-<<Even if you kill them all, we keep making more, so it wouldn't work for very long.>> Dangit. We come with a limited number, and they have monthly expiration dates... it just doesn't seem fair.
<<Bus sometimes I just want some fun without all that romance getting in the way.>> You can find those girls! We call them "easy" or "liberated". Some call them "slutty." Or you could just take some hot chick with low self esteem. They'd put out with minimal complications... ew, listen to me. I'm like a Satanic female manipulation guru... Ignore all my comments from now on.

Josh- <<<<it's going to be warm and sunny and I plan a trip to the aquarium>>: I hate you.>> Heh, heh... guess what I did on Wednesday? Oh, a sunny drive on the PCH and a trip to the aquarium... ahhh.

"Anonymous"- I think your banning was unjust, as well. I do think you need to work on your diplomacy skills, however. You do realize that part of your little letter to the administrators sounded very much like Yoda? "and it mattered NOT to GREG BISHANSKY" Ohh, mattered not, did it?
I'm sorry, it struck me as funny. But apparently in good time they will let you back, as you've reappeared before. I wish you luck, your "choice" words were at least interesting and passionate, even if I didn't agree with the sentiments.

Leo- <<uhh. Because he looks like "Silent Bob?"
(Sorry, I just had this uncontrolable urge to compare Greg to Silent Bob) :p "a little nonsenece never hurts, ya da da da...">> LOL, excellent! A fun quote also for that little comment; "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men..."

Ghost of Rev. Attila: <<My own prediction: Sadaam plans to flee to Paris, where he shoudl fit in, as he hates America, cheats on his wife, and wears a beret voluntarily :)>> ROTFLMAO!!! God, I hate those little online abbreviations. But seriously, that is freakin' hilarious...

Jakal- Reading more recent posts in here... welcome back. Justice served.

Goodnight, all. It took waaayyyy to long to catch up on all the reading I've been avoiding in here... Bedtime!

Lila
Los Angeles
Friday, March 21, 2003 04:28:15 AM
IP: 134.173.121.83

Leo<Yep there was. But you're supposed to just accept it as just another one of his "routine" dances ("routine" meaning nothing really significant happened). Also notice that that episode began with the conclusion of another "routine" time dance.>

That first dance was based off of the "Comedy of Errors" so we know how it goes and it doesn't really count, but we don't know how his encounter with Napoleon went and the whole thing imo just screamed of an untold story.

<There are hints that Brooklyn and his family will make one last visit in 6000BC Egypt and probably meet up with Harthoth (before he makes his bargain with Apep) prior to returning to 1996 manhattan. Where do you think Harthoth got much of his information? >

Well I thought that Harthoth's information about the Timedancer and the Timedancing came from Thoth since he was one of Thoth's minions. However Harthoth's knowledge about the future came from the deal made with Sata in "Deals and Exchanges" that provided her with information about Brooklyn's future dances inexchange for information about the future for his past self that was in the servitude of Apep.
The Question
Friday, March 21, 2003 02:38:24 AM
IP: 67.233.55.66

I'm amused by reports of protestors calling Bush Satan. I would have thought that Satan would be a bit brighter... (Unless he's smart enough to _act_ stupid, to avert suspicion.)
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, March 21, 2003 02:21:14 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

sowwy for the multiple posts.

Question:<<In "Ruby Eyes" Brooklyn says that it was really fun knowing Napoleon so there has to be an untold story there.>> Yep there was. But you're supposed to just accept it as just another one of his "routine" dances ("routine" meaning nothing really significant happened). Also notice that that episode began with the conclusion of another "routine" time dance.

There are hints that Brooklyn and his family will make one last visit in 6000BC Egypt and probably meet up with Harthoth (before he makes his bargain with Apep) prior to returning to 1996 manhattan. Where do you think Harthoth got much of his information? EX: "Meyrt had often wondered what Brooklyn's mate was like" and Harthoth's statement that "The Timedancer must be free"

(Again, this is fun):p

Leo
Friday, March 21, 2003 02:16:32 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Doh! "Question" beat me. Oh well. :p
Leo
Friday, March 21, 2003 01:57:03 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

DPH:<<From my understanding, season 3 covered 10 years. If you can show me a specific>> The way I remember it. it was 2 years for Brooklyn but 10 years for Sata.

From "return to Paradise Pt. 1:
-----------------

>"Timedance, Year 22" [Brooklyn's point of view]

>"2168, The Eyrie Pyramid"

>>"...But ten years of living with the clan of his descendants had forced her(Sata) to do what she could to not break down each night she woke without her love."

[After Brooklyn sees his eggs for the first time he and Sata are talking out on the the parapets. Brooklyn just told her how he got his scar]

>>"....Sata seemed to accept the answer, she knew he would tell her more of his two years spent dancing later."

Leo
Friday, March 21, 2003 01:55:53 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

DPH

In "Return to Paradise" it was yr 22 of Timedancer that Brooklyn returned. Now if seasons one and two were two decades then season 3 must have been 2 years at maximum. However on the other hand it was ten years for Sata since Brooklyn left in 2158 and returned in 2168.

<What untold adventure? Can you site a story?>

In Ruby Eyes Brooklyn says that it was really fun knowing Napoleon so there has to be an untold story there.

<TGS Timedancer always had a definite run in mind since TGS decided that each season of TGS Timedancer would cover around 10 years.>

So are Timedancer and Dark Ages the only cycles that will have definite runs? For Dark Ages are you going for one season equaling three years established in season 2 thus ending at around season 8 or 9?
The Question
Friday, March 21, 2003 01:53:32 AM
IP: 67.233.55.66

No more Saddam using oil to fund killing of his own people!

Meanwhile, the companies making the ammo that we are using in the war are getting an economic stimulus. War can be good for US businesses as well as bad (I heard about McDonalds being attacked)

Airwalker - <Was any drawing done during the planning stages or that just wasn't released?> During December 2002, I went through the old pictures. Virtually everything that was not duplicate of another picture (already released) and was of sufficient quality was released.

<Season 1&2 covered roughly 2 decades which you guys have confirmed> Until you change your name, I'm not going to identify you. Trust me, the CR dwellers will not kill you. Then we agree there. <season 3 was around 1 or 2 years in length confirmed by Return to Paradise> I disagree. From my understanding, season 3 covered 10 years. If you can show me a specific quote, I might reconsider. <And what about Brooklyn's untold adventure with Napoleon? Is it going to be left untold?> What untold adventure? Can you site a story? <Are you guys cancelling Timedancer to make room for Bad Guys? Is that it?> TGS Timedancer always had a definite run in mind since TGS decided that each season of TGS Timedancer would cover around 10 years.

I'm going to supplement: Ed <"Dark Ages" is in breakdowns. Maybe Greg forgot about it because he isn't on that staff (as far as I know). ;) It won't be out until after "Gargoyles" I wouldn't think though.> I sure hope so because Gargoyles Season 4 is much further in development along than Dark Ages season 3.

oh yea, for those musically inclined, here's a question: a piano, cello, clarinet, and baritone singer perform at a concert in a recital hall on campus. What's the opinions on this combination? [for those I have told what my opinion of the concert was, don't spoil it]

DPH
AR, USA
Friday, March 21, 2003 01:08:49 AM
IP: 204.94.193.68

JacKaL> <<But as Lain hasn't even dignified me with a response, so how terrible was it?>>
It would have been wrong even if _everyone_ had ignored it. It was childish, mean, and _not_ funny. How could you even joke about something like that?

<<"We're". Speaking for the entire CR are we? There's already a Saddam-like dictatorship going on here, I guess it'd be cool to stamp out individuality next.>>
That one was _almost_ funny, but it still didn't even warrant a smile. Does anyone but you find your jokes funny?

<<Like it's the first time he's been compared to a mass murderer!>>
No, usually people just say that he _looks_ like a mass-murderer, and I'm pretty sure he does _that_ on purpose. :P
****************************
Spacebabie> <<You’re cool, sorry I just finally had to say it.>>
*snickers* That's the third one this week. Too bad I wasn't this popular in high school... ;)

<<Sorry Chips are the stuff found in bags marked "Ruffles" and "Lays" and in canisters marked "Pringles">>
Also some less pleasant things which are found in pastures, I believe. ;)
*********************
Siryn> <<gahhh I went to the mall today, and looked at 3 more places...NOBODY IN THIS FRIGGIN TOWN IS HIRING!>>
I know... the job section in the... what's it called? The coupon/ad/newspapery thing that comes in the mail on Wednesdays... The job section's been much smaller than usual lately. One week it was only two pages... Grr. And I've had enough homework lately that I don't have too much time to look. Bleh...
************************
Gside> <<If it isn't money, I might enjoy it, and if it is money, I'm omnipresent anyway.>>
Of course it's money. I'm a college student, aren't I? :P
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, March 21, 2003 12:14:17 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Made saltimbolca tonight. Think I found the right spiciness for the flour. And the sauce would probably be thicker if I didn't use a teflon frying pan.

Imzadi> <<That often requires more than just boobs>>: Yes, bu tdisembodied bouncies are unusual, and can be easily discounted.
<<Them too>>: Curses.
<<To help>>: Nothing will help, especially after the work of those like C. L. Dodgson.
<<Yes>>: You're closer. Get going.

Bud Clare> <<now I just laugh at them>>: Excellent. Myself, I just breeze on by.
<<What romance?>>: Whatever you call it that we can do to convince femalse to make the bouncies do what we want.
<<Don't say that until you've heard the price>>: If it isn't money, I might enjoy it, and if it is money, I'm omnipresent anyway.
<<Cheap bastard>>: Yes, I am. But maybe not when I get an income.
<<while fully clothed>>: You're no fun.
<<Like he cares>>: Good point. Anything's a step up.

Spacebabie> <<Lets see knowing what floats around in your mind? No>>: My faith has peen restored.
<<Somebody got a case of the posting hiccups>>: Yeah, yeah. Doubleclutched return in the wrong place.
<<You?d watch if they had a ?jiggle counter?>>: Burn Up W? I'm planning on getting that sometime.
<<And we only bounce them for our lovers>>: Hence my stance on artificial bouncies.

Siryn> <<NOBODY IN THIS FRIGGIN TOWN IS HIRING>>: Blame the economy. I'm hoping for a nice wartime boost Mayish.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, March 21, 2003 12:03:53 AM
IP: 68.38.240.227

TGS Art Question Ahead:

I was checking out the Picture Archive on the TGS page and when going through the previously unreleased from Season 1 and 2 section found 2 drawings of the Caledonian Clan. It got me wondering, between those two drawings and the various ones in the actual stories we've seen every member of the Caledonian Clan except for Tori. Was any drawing done during the planning stages or that just wasn't released? Just curious.
Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:54:39 PM
IP: 12.88.162.208

CUYAHOGA FALLS -- A member of Ohio's 5694th National Guard Unit in Mansfield legally changed his name to a Transformers toy.

Optimus Prime is heading out to the Middle East with his guard unit on Wednesday to provide fire protection for airfields under combat.

"On Sunday, we were awarded as the best firefighting unit in the Army National Guard in the entire country," said Prime. "That was a big moment for us."

Prime took his name from the leader of the Autobots Transformers, which were popular toys and a children's cartoon in the 1980s.

He legally changed his name on his 30th birthday and now it's on everything from his driver's licence, to his military ID, to his uniform.

"They razzed me for three months to no end," said Prime. "They really dug into me about it."

"I got a letter from a general at the Pentagon when the name change went through and he says it was great to have the employ of the commander of the Autobots in the National Guard."

Prime says the toy actually filled a void in his life when it came out.

"My dad passed away the year before and I didn't have anybody really around, so I really latched onto him when i was a kid," he said.
Question
Thursday, March 20, 2003 09:50:11 PM
IP: 67.233.55.66

interesting, to say the least.
Gabriel - [<---- spy devices on "unkown" origin]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 07:50:26 PM
IP: 66.139.8.172

Humour..

When the newscaster is talking about attacks in Iraq, and my roomate points out that our TV is larger than the one they're using on MSNBC.

Gotta love capitalism.

Don't mind me if I don't argue about this 'war'. I've watched this whole thing from the ship with US and other international news. No one is going to change my opinion of it, nor do I really feel like wasting energy to try and change theirs. ^_^

Other than that.

KATHY! LTNC! ;D *waves*
Spacebabie! You too! *waves*

Bud-Clare> gahhh I went to the mall today, and looked at 3 more places...NOBODY IN THIS FRIGGIN TOWN IS HIRING!

heh..
*considering to draw commissions just to pay rent for this month* -_- *sigh*
Siryn - [<--MGC ummm 10 more days for the current contest!]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 07:25:53 PM
IP: 66.66.97.209

Since I have the attention of the Administration, may I bring a couple of things to attention?

OK, first thing is, on the "Banned!" page, the email addy listed on it doesn't work anymore.
And the other thing is Timedance is the most kick ass thing goin on here!

<<Greg is the bad one>>
Kinda like Mackey on The Shield?

<<Jackal is like the boy who pokes the pit bull with the stick. He kept poking until the dog attacked>>
LoL I like that! ...And kept right on poking after the dog ripped his face off! LoL

Bengali - I was prolly banned before, who knows, it's been awhile. But you've been good?!
<<The US has already tried diplomacy>>
Yeah, there's not much else that could have been done.

Love you all, see ya later!
JacKaL
Thursday, March 20, 2003 05:26:35 PM
IP: 152.163.189.68

Bengali >> War is a huge moral dillema for people of good conscience when regimes with no conscience take the opportunity to use a an oppressed and abused civilian population as human shields.

And yet, at the same time, is it wise to attempt to appease the hostage-takers? Is simply hiding behind helpless civilians and holding their lives for ransom the ultimate tactic for the unscrupulous general in modern war?

I wish the situation was different, but I don't honestly see any more merciful a practical alternative in the long term. Still, I can't feel very positive about it knowing that right next to that missile installation or bunker could be a family. I can't feel very positive about the alternative fate innaction leaves innocents to in Iraq either. I just hope and pray that casualties are low and the resolution is positive in the long-run.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 04:19:42 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Correction - 'would you rather', not 'who you rather.'

Sorry...
Bengali - [delphu@netscape.net]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 04:02:08 PM
IP: 172.194.13.217

Thanks to those who welcomed me back. ^_^

A lot of familiar names here, which is a surprise since it's been so long. *pauses* I thought Jackal was banned around the month or so before I left. That was a long time ago...

V><"According to Lain, the US has begun bombing in Iraq. When you're watching those wonderfull videos of bombs slamming into targets on CNN, try to remember that there are people dying over there, many of whom may have done nothing wrong, and who have had no control over the events that lead us to this. If at all possible, try to restrain your enthusiasm at the deaths of the 18-year-old conscripts who are paying with their lives for descisions they did not make." I take it that you're against the war?. Saddam is doing far worse to his people. Is it better that we don't remove him from power? Sometimes, the ends do justify the means. The US is not trying to wipe out the Iraqi population, but what must be done must be done. It is Saddam that is placing his troops among his civilians, using them as a human shield against the USofA. Would you rather Saddam continue his atrocities? Is it better that the rape rooms and torture chambers remain 'alive and well'? I don't think so. The US has already tried diplomacy, who you rather it be our people dying instead of Saddam's troops?
Bengali - [delphu@netscape.net]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 04:00:51 PM
IP: 172.194.13.217

Gunjack & Lain >> Also, regarding that former political analyst for the CIA. He mentioned an early classified report that made the rounds implicating Iran instead of Iraq in - one - of the major Kurd killings in the Iraq-Iran war.

More recent, non-classified documentation obtained during the 1991 Kurdish uprising against Saddam begs to differ with some people's more lenient assessment of Saddam's campaigns against the Kurds. He didn't just fight the Iranians. He taught the Kurds a "lesson" whenever he got the chance.

And I'm not saying that Turkey has the right to abuse Kurds either. The biggest difference between Iraq and Turkey is that Turkey has evolved itself a Parliment and changed regime peacefully (though not adequately, if you ask me) and not employed chemical weapons against the Kurds, whereas Saddam hasn't changed at all.

From the Human Rights Watch (formerly the Middle East Watch):

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1993/iraqanfal/
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1994/iraq/TEXT.htm
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1994/iraq/APPENDIX.htm#TopOfPage

I don't think we really disagree that Saddam Hussein is a monster, a tyrant, and an abuser of subjugated people.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 02:52:11 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Spacebabie/Mooncat > Guinea fowl can be bought. They've been around forever as an alternative farm animal - Meat tastes different from chicken or turkey- very lean. If they're allowed to free range then they provide over 90% of their own diet by eating bugs and the rest in weed seeds and vegetation. They got really popular with the noveau riche on the East Coast when Lymes disease became a problem because they'd roam the estates and eat ticks. They are kind of noisy and since they're only semi domesticated you've got to have space to let them roam or a really good confinement set up - they like to roost high off the ground.
Next year when I've got laying hens I may get a batch of keets and raise them with chicks so they pick up some of the chickens more domestic habits. Link to a hatchery on my name. The one we had for dinner the other night was a pearl.

I found a crawdad and a frog in the driveway this morning. Evidently the cats had been fishing in the creek. I have high hopes for a good crawdad crop. MMMM Etoufee!!
kathy
Thursday, March 20, 2003 02:45:48 PM
IP: 66.82.160.1

I have RETURNED. Came home on a better plane that I went to Houston on. This one had
The ear phones and pop out TV’s. We also had an actual meal service.

Houston was beautiful, we got a little rain but that was it. We spent time online, in his room watching his Gargoyles tapes, and a few eps on Toon Disney((So this is what I’ve been missing)) We talked about fics and art.

Went to the mall cruised through the city and had dinner at a Japanese buffet with Sushi, and yes I did take a glob of the green stuff on my finger and placed it in my mouth.

I’m not going to mention anything that will make people gag from sappy cuddly stuff, and that is only because I’m walking on endorphins.

We have glanced at the CR but decided not to post.

War on Iraq, not going to comment except that Hussein does need to be removed.

On opinion that Lain is an evil America hater and Gunjack has been whipped…I remember once she complained about Spiderman. I dissected the situation and found out this fact. She does not hate America--she just doesn’t grasp on to partiotism of any kind. She admited she doesn’t feel the same kind of loyalty to her country that we do to ours. This IS not the same for every Candadian. I’m sure for every Lain there are plenty of Candadians who wake up and salute the ol Maple Leaf before they cook their breakfast. Gunjack is only slightly whipped. When hs beings to hate all guns and turns into a vegetarian that is when we stage the intervention.

The Jackal/Greg B situation. Ok Robby and Aaron are the Good Cops. Greg is the bad one…Mara-sama is technically a good cop also. She has only blown her cool with one or two individuals. As I see the situation Jackal is like the boy who pokes the pit bull with the stick. He kept poking until the dog attacked.

There was a huge breast conversation and I wasn’t brought up…hmmm I wonder if I should be insulted.

“Freedom” Fries. I’ll call them what I have always been calling them…Fries
.

Angel was good last night no spoilers

Replies:
Godiva and Bengali welcome back

Todd<<<"french fries" is really an abbreviation of "frenched fried potatoes">>>:::Blinks:::The not abbreviated version sounds so…southern.

Ed<<<you could just call them "chips".>>>Sorry Chips are the stuff found in bags marked “Ruffles” and “Lays” and in canisters marked “Pringles”

Dezi<<<Have fun>>>Oh we did.

Gside<<<Do you really need to ask?>>>Lets see knowing what floats around in your mind? No.<<<…>>>Somebody got a case of the posting hiccups.<<<Yes, but it isn't constant bouncing. >>>You’d watch if they had a “jiggle counter”<<<But it's fun being naughty.>>>Oh yes!<<<Real bouncies are controlled by women>>>And we only bounce them for our lovers.

Leo<<<freedom tickler>>>:::Spits out her juice:::

Bud-Claire<<<but no one wants to have sex with them>>>I have seen pictures…<<<but the mint were tasty>>>I love all the Oreos...Peanut-butter, mint, coffee, chocolate, chocolate covered and even the standard plain.<<<Grow up.>>>You’re cool, sorry I just finally had to say it.

Attila<<<Enjoy and eat an animal or a PETA member>>>A PETA member would give me a tummy ache. I went with a steak on Saturday.<<<Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.>>>I believe that is the only way they could win.

Josh<<<got into UCSD's graduate program, too! That's 3 for 3>>>Congrats<<<Suck, suck, suck…>>>I better leave that untouched.<<<I'm going to hold you to that.>>>You like to hold, don’t cha?<<<Oh hell yes! Boobies!>>>I thought you were not into fake breasts.<<<Um, never mind>>>I bet.<<<That's because we don't do apes>>>Yet it’s okay for women to do apes.<<>>I’m sure she would like to see the pictures.<<<Renaissance Engineers (a history course, believe it or not)>>>I believe it. Do you talk about structure and engineering they used back in Ren times?<<>>You and me and my dad and whole lot of other people.<<<trip to the gym>>>Trying to get buff so your ass kicking wont be so harsh.<<<She makes it increasingly obvious every day that she doesn't know ANYTHING>>>Ah you have come across another “Dilbert Boss” in your engineering life. Guess what? There will be more.<<>>and this is why you don’t have a girlfriend.<<<Breasts should not be larger than my head>>>I heard you have a small head. <<<While I agree, there isn't anyone to take his place.>>>*cough* there are three others.

Stephen<<<there was ZERO response to the first new issue back in Springtime 2002 of AvMists>>>Dude Christine rarely got any response when she was head of Avmists.<<<Considering that, I felt that the fandom really didn't care to see it return>>>BSB!
Just because there is a lack of a response does not mean that people don’t care…see above. Have you even noticed how many people are asking about it? Hey I’m a fic writer…I don’t always get a load of feedback every time I post a new story, but guess what I keep churning them out. I admit I get a few e-mails, some message board reviews and an instant messenger review of two, but the point is avmists have been around for about as long as there was a fandom don’t stop because your inbox wasn’t flooded with feedback.<<<Pheer me.>>>I think I shall only fear your netspeakish spelling.

Firestorm<<>>Well I don’t keep a list of that<<<Rape, murder, disabled... no character is safe with me!>>>Lets see Rape and tortured a canon character, tortured an original, killed an original, and had the crap beaten out of an original.<<<Has France surrendered yet?>>>LOL!

Coyote and Rayvn>>>I hope you two had as much fun as Revel and I did.

Greg<<<Saddam and his two sons, Bush, Cheney and the French President, put them all in a rocket and fire it into the center of the sun.>>> um what about Ashcroft? Can we get rid of that nazi?..and while we are fantasizing we have Guliani taking Bush’s place with Colin Powel as VP.<<>>Hey I’m all for getting rid of Janet Reno but I don’t think she swings that way.<<<So, I say we just get this over with now.>>>Ah the good ol Math Homework beliefe. The sooner we start the soon er we finish even if we don’t like it.<<<Wendy Lee does a much better job voicing Faye.>>>I have to agree there, of course Wendy Lee is one of my favorite dub actresses

Kathy<<<Guinea fowl tastes like pork.>>>The other white meat.<<<We look out the window and there's a flock of guineas grazing on the grass across the street.>>>How did they get there? I thought they were native to Africa?

Gabriel>>>I’m sooo sorry I don’t know what to say. I’ll be praying for you, your father and Grandfather.

Gunjack<<<COWBOY BEBOP WILL BE IN THEATERS THIS APRIL!>>>Whoo hoo! The strange thing is my brother has seen some episodes and he actually likes it

Revel-BIG LIPLOCKING DIZZIFYING SMOOCH

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Thursday, March 20, 2003 01:26:37 PM
IP: 65.56.39.194

Surprise surprise, they didn't get Sadam. Could it be because CNN is brodcasting to the entire world every possible strategy (and their drawbacks) the US could use against him? This is ridiculous. I was flipping channels last nihgt and for a almost all the news networks were showing images of the Bagdahd skyline, waiting for hours to show us pictures of bobms exploding and anti-aircraft guns firing. Sorry guys, nothing's happening tonight. Meanwhile the scrolling marquee ticker at the botom of the screen is displaying information about when the US plans to strike and what kinds of weapons will be used. :p

Gabriel:>Condolences on your grandfather. Hofully the rest of your semester will be better.
Leo
Thursday, March 20, 2003 01:05:05 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Gunjack >> Did a little reading on Depleted Uranium. Found plenty of Anti-War, advocacy groups ready to blame just about everything in the world on it, citing it as a "radioactive weapon" which, while technically true, is misleading when reading their references, as the citations on depleted Uranium note its hazardous nature is due to its being a heavy metal (like lead), not due to it being radioactive.

http://www.ecoglobe.org.nz/nuclear/duarms.htm

Even the more well thought-out responses to DU key on its toxicity as a heavy metal entering the body:

http://www.cadu.org.uk/

But if we're going to remove all highly toxic substances from explosive weapons, we're going to need to remove almost everything they are made out of from plastic to lead to rocket fuel. I think it should be understood clearly that things that explode aren't healthy for you.

Also found a few other studies that seemed a bit less high-strung:

A substance 1.7 times more dense than lead is toxic when taken into the body. I'm not surprised. Most things that aren't carbon-based (and a lot that are) are highly toxic. Fine particles of glass, lead, oxodized iron, etc. are also extremely hazardous if you get them into your body. Combust 9 things out of 10 in your kitchen and you'll wind up with things you don't want in your food or drinking water.

The radiation levels of depleted Uranium are reported as negligible. Outside of that, we see the same sort of toxicity from a variety of other substances. Uranium is simply a much scarier substance because if concentrated enough, it causes kindney failure after prolonged exposure, it can decay into radium - and it is enriched to be used in nuclear weapons.

Should we make sure that people exposed to high concentrations of depleted Uranium are made aware of the dangers and help them take necessary precautions? Of course that's the right thing to do! However, there were a LOT of right things to do during the last Gulf War that didn't get done, even under the revered banner of the infallible United Nations.

Oh yeah, speaking of the UN, here is what they had to say about Uranium:

http://www.us-mission.ch/press2001/0117du.htm

And a few other sources:
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts150.html

Of course, I'm sure other sites and groups will have a different take on Depleted Uranium. Which side is right and who has all the facts? Possibly no-one.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:50:09 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Kai - I'm argueing in particular:
That the DU weapons widely used throoughout the american military have caused severe harm to civilians in countries where they've been used.
That a great deal of the rhetoric about Saddam his false, particularly pertaining to some of the more commonly-claimed atrocities (not that I don't believe he's a murderous bastard, but I'm keen to know exactly what he HAS done, and exactly what he hasn't).
That as a result of our past actions, our nation severely underestimates the hatred directed at us by the Iraqi people themselves.
And finally, I would like to see if you could answer concretely some of the more questionable claims I've had thrown at me, ie the State Department's "green light" for the Iraqi invasion, whether the Highway massacres can be justified, and so forth.

These are real issues, and I've heard the same facts repeated by multiple sources (I posted the handiest I could find on short notice yesterday). I'd like to hear them answered, because I would dearly like to have all of the above proven false. Failing that, the least we can do is to correct our beliefs to mach the facts.

What I do NOT want to see is out-of-hand dismissal, because I find it intellectually dishonest. The sources on DU, in particular, were mostly scientific papers presented to quite credible world bodies. Likewise, briefs for the International war crimes tribunal should not be dismissed lightly.

Peace...
V
Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:54:51 AM
IP: 65.93.72.83

Gunjack >> What point are you trying to argue?

They show blatant bias and disregard for objectivity in their reporting. That calls their claim of what is fact and what is not into question, especially in situations with conflicting accounts such as these. If you want to believe what they claim over what others claim, go right ahead.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:23:31 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Kai><<http://www.cesr.org ...Maybe people can just decide for themselves why I greet this source with skepticism.>> Kai, you are as I was.

From personal experience, remember that regardless of who is making the claims, facts are still facts. They can be verified, reinterpreted, or revealed to be inaccurate, but it is unwise to discard them out of hand because they come from people you do not like. Why not just prove them wrong, rather than rejecting what they say as "limo liberalism"? Is this not a "to the man" argument?

Secondly, I listed a load of sites, and Lain several more. Please don't tell me that because you distrust the people who link the info (and hey, I do too...), you've passed on actually hearing us out...

Peace, Love, Dope
Gunjack "Winchester Man" Valentine
Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:14:22 AM
IP: 65.93.72.83

Lain > http://www.cesr.org

Maybe people can just decide for themselves why I greet this source with skepticism. It might just be the socialist propaganda-pushing with unrepentant bias, or maybe it is the selectivity of the targets: Israel, United States, Republicans = EVIL while completely pretending that Cuba, North Korea, China, Iran, etc. aren't real problem spots when it comes to human rights.

Oh, don't get me wrong, their hearts seem in the right place and all, but after reading a few of their reports and looking at their programs and initiatives, I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them to be practical, objective, or scientific in a crunch.

The phrase "limousine liberal" rings a lot of bells here.

Bias fed from more bias is not objective. I can certainly see how a person would view this kind of a source with as much, if not more, skepticism than the initiatives of the United States backed by Britain, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, the Czech Republic, and Spain.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:55:58 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Hi you all!!! Does anyone knows or has every episode of Gargoyles TV Series in DivX or something like that? I would like to get every one of them to watch them again ,in original version better. Can anyone help me? any ideas? thanx
trok
Pamplona, Spain
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:54:31 AM
IP: 130.206.158.236

One more thing, Jackal, baby I didn't receive that email and while I'm not agrieve to have missed a good harangue.. I am an Admin. Aaron is an Admin. Robbie is an Admin. Any problems in the future, I swear I'll get to ya.

That goes for everyone.

In the meantime. *passes out cookies cut out and frosted to look like little Kikos*
Shinigami
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:15:53 AM
IP: 66.139.49.253

::strides in, and berates herself at being too busy to have kept an eye on the CR until now::

JACKAL:: You're not banned, we apologize, Greg's been far too much into the coffee or something...

Greg: Calm de mother'a'er down. What have we talked about before?

::Shinigami, speaking not with "admin badge" but as a concerned admin who thinks some people need a frelling breather.::
Shinigami - [baranotenshi@hotmail.com]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:10:20 AM
IP: 66.139.49.253

Something interesting I found, seriously, it's interesting.

"Look, we have exhausted virtually our diplomatic effort to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements and with international law. Given that, what other option is there but to force them to do so? . . . The answer is, we don't have another option. We have got to force them to comply, and we are doing so militarily."
Tom Daschle – February, 1998

Tom Daschle?!?! The man that speaks out against war now that HIS party isn't in rule?
jackal boi
Thursday, March 20, 2003 09:35:12 AM
IP: 152.163.189.68

Here are the CR rules as of 2-10-2003. Being that some of you have forgotten them, including admin. type people. And please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. (As I take criticism lightly, unlike some people).

1. The TGS CR Administrator pic can be used ONLY by TGS staff members and the CR administrators.
(I don't particularly care about this one)

2. No flames.
(Plain and simple)

3. Nothing graphically pornographic and no direct links to pornographic material. In general, keep it PG-13 or tamer.
(This rule does not apply to our current master, but YOU are expected to abide by it)

4. No all RP (role play) posts.
(Plain and simple)

5. Spoilers, role play or potentially offensive material should have warnings before and after them as indicated by multiple asterisks (*), all capital letters and blank lines before and after each warning.

OK, that's all I see. Where's the "no comparing the Admin. to Saddam rule"?
It's not name calling. I've never said, "Greg you are Saddam Hussein". And that sentence is only an example.

The only wrong thing I have done is call Lain a Liberal.
LoL No really, a Liberal Terrorist Supporter. This is wrong. But as Lain hasn't even dignified me with a response, so how terrible was it?

Bud-Clare <<Yeah, we're just too ignorant to follow your superior humor. *yawns*>>
"We're". Speaking for the entire CR are we? There's already a Saddam-like dictatorship going on here, I guess it'd be cool to stamp out individuality next. *yawns back*

<<He'll probably stop banning you when you apologise for comparing him to a mass-murderer>>
LoL ok! Like it's the first time he's been compared to a mass murderer!

<<You shouldn't have been banned, but you definitely screwed up.>>
Yeah I know right?! Screwing up is my major.

<<Actually, I'm kind of surprised that he isn't flattered by the comparison>>
Me too. I figured he would've liked it. Ahh well, one of those screw up things I guess.

ttfn
jackal boi
Thursday, March 20, 2003 09:23:15 AM
IP: 152.163.189.68

Kathy -- Guinea Fowl!!!! Keen. My kitties only bring me things like garter snakes and young rabbits. Did you reward your hunter? Sounds like a good dog *^_^*

Like pork, huh? I'll have to try some if I get the chance.

Patrick - Furbid auction, well I think the seller is trying to entice bigger bids by holding out special prizes, like the autographed by Greg W. figure if bids get high enough. Kinda silly but some people might think it's cheaper than tracking Greg W. down and getting him to sign their own Demona figure.

Note to self, get Greg to sign action figure just in case. *^_^* And remember to pack things for donating to charity auction.

Bye the by, who is in charge of the auction? Can I send the things I'm donating now, so I don't have to worry about packing them when I go?

Went and picked up a TiVo today. yay! $230 for a 60 hour series 2, SCORE!!! -- It was an out of box with no manual at Best Buy... But, found out it needs a Land Line to work. BOO!!! Frantically checked online for a way around this, because I live on my cell phone and haven't had a land line in two years. Apparently there is a way to hook to the net by using a usb to ethernet adapter (TiVo series two have usb ports) and then hooking into a router. Going to give that a try. If if doesn't work then first I check with a friend with a land line to see if he'd like a shot at it before I take it back to Best Buy.

bye for now
Mooncat
>^,,^<
Mooncat
Thursday, March 20, 2003 04:30:04 AM
IP: 68.102.23.36

"We will meet that threat now with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of firefighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities."
- President George W. Bush, March 19 2003

"It is important that our troops know that this country is behind them, regardless of what position we took relative to the importance of sticking with the U.N.,"
- Michigan Senator Carl Levin (D), March 19 2003

And some words from a blogger named Michael Totten.

"Now that the war I've advocated has begun, I admit I feel a bit guilty. War is horrible. People are dying because we are killing them. When you get right down to it, I don't feel comfortable being in favor of it. Maybe this is good. If I were too certain, too pleased to see we are at war, there might be something wrong with me.

However. I do know Saddam Hussein's regime is a threat. How much of a threat is debatable, naturally, because what he may or may not do in the future is obviously speculative. (Though it is more predictable than the pollyannas who haven't studied him allow.) Either way, no serious person can say he is no threat at all.

What makes me feel better about it is a lot less speculative, and is becoming more concrete by the day. The Iraqi people will thank us. They will. We are not committing atrocities against them. Some people don't believe that. They will learn in time. It is counterintuitive; who would want their country bombed by foreigners? "

"We are the good guys. Saddam Hussein is a genocidal fascist. Never forget that.

You may think this war is a mistake. You may be opposed to it for reasons I don't share. That's fine. There are honorable reasons to dissent.

But no one can tell me America is fascist and imperialist. It is a lie, and it is not honorable.

If George Bush lines the Democratic Senators up against a wall and has them machine-gunned by the Army, let me know. I'll join in calling America fascist.

If we conquer Iraq, enslave its people, and rape it of its resources, shoot me an email. I'll agree America is imperialist and stand corrected in public.

We are about to kill a lot of people in Iraq. I feel awful about it, even though I think the cause is just. It brings me no happiness that a war I've long supported is finally about to begin. When the shooting starts, I will sit and watch it on War-TV and bury my head in my hands. I'll feel a lump in my throat and a clench in my stomach. I will mourn the dead on both sides.

I am not bloodthirsty. I don't like war, and I don't hate the people of Iraq. Not even the soldiers in Saddam Hussein's army. I won't enjoy the sight of falling bombs, knowing human beings are being killed in those explosions.

But I will enjoy seeing an enslaved country liberated from a tyrant. I will sleep a little better knowing those genocide weapons will be disposed by army inspectors. I will smile as aid workers pour into the country to rescue a long-suffering people.

And I hope to see our fiercest critics shamed. We are not the "real axis of evil." We're about to prove it by freeing and rebuilding what Saddam Hussein spent three long decades destroying."

My own prediction: Sadaam plans to flee to Paris, where he shoudl fit in, as he hates America, cheats on his wife, and wears a beret voluntarily :)
ghost of Reverend Attila
Thursday, March 20, 2003 04:17:21 AM
IP: 136.216.75.2

I just realized something amusing... I avoided this CR for years because the flame wars disturbed me... And now I just laugh at them. Granted, the ones lately haven't been as bad as some, but still... I think I've really grown as a person. *snickers*
***********************
Gside> <<Bus sometimes I just want some fun without all that romance getting in the way.>>
What romance?

<<Excellent.>>
Don't say that until you've heard the price.

<<But we've already decided that I am omnipresent.>>
Then you aren't even going to pay? Cheap bastard. Good thing I was going to go with the ears in the oven thing (while fully clothed)...
***********************
JacKaL> <<Apparently alot of people don't follow my "intelligent humour".>>
Yeah, we're just too ignorant to follow your superior humor. *yawns*

<<and I was hoping he would be better than Saddam Hussein, what a disappointment>>
He'll probably stop banning you when you apologise for comparing him to a mass-murderer. (Not to mention denying that you did anything wrong. You shouldn't have been banned, but you definitely screwed up. The fact that one of the people who you blatantly and unjustifiably insulted _ignored_ you is irrelevent.)
(Actually, I'm kind of surprised that he isn't flattered by the comparison... he usually goes for that kind of thing.)
**********************
Greg> <<Despite some differences of opinion we've had on occasion. I like you ;)>>
Jeez, everyone is being so nice to me this week. It's almost unnerving... Almost. ;)
************************
silvadel> <<12 years later someone sees him in saudi arabia in one of the terrorist networks.>>
That's silly... Who wouldn't retire to a nice tropical island somewhere if they had the chance? ;)
************************
Josh> <<Only if you're hot.>>
Like he cares.

<<But most of them involve calling him names, right?>>
Your point?

<<Well, he isn't female, so we can safely assume that he doesn't subscribe to YOUR brand of logic.>>
At least I have a brand of logic that doesn't have my name on it, unlike your special Josh-logic. :P

<<One hit my science teacher.>>
?

<<Seriously. Technospeak has computer stuff in it.>>
Not necessarily. I just didn't see enough to justify his mentioning it.

<<That often requires more than just boobs.>>
He'll make do with whatever he can get.

<< <<The English langauge is already messed up. Why put in something that makes sense?>>: To help.>>
But it wouldn't help, since no one would be expecting it.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 01:44:39 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

"Anonymos Banned Person":<<How in God's name did you become an administrator? >>

uhh. Because he looks like "Silent Bob?"

(Sorry, I just had this uncontrolable urge to compare Greg to Silent Bob) :p

"a little nonsenece never hurts, ya da da da..."
Leo
Thursday, March 20, 2003 01:41:27 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Thanks Josh, I see now!
Anonymous
Thursday, March 20, 2003 01:11:48 AM
IP: 152.163.189.68

This is an email I sent to everyone holding the "Admin. Badge".

This is a comment I was going to post, but I figured I'll just send it to you.

I HAVE BEEN UNJUSTLY BANNED FROM THE CR. (again)

I have in NO WAY violated the RULES AND TERMS of this place and it mattered NOT to GREG BISHANSKY.

He banned me because he didn't like what I was saying to him or other people in here. Other people in here that didn't even CARE WHAT I HAD TO SAY TO THEM!!!!

People, if he did it to me, he'll do it to you. There's nothing stopping him!

Keep in mind, I did NOTHING TO VIOLATE THE RULES OF THE CR.

And I was still banned. Brutal display of power, if you ask me.

(and I was hoping he would be better than Saddam Hussein, what a disappointment).

And

This is what I sent to Greg...

You've unjustly banned me... twice.
I've done NOTHING to violate the CR rules and you F**KING know it.
How's that for hearing the "f" word. Oh but it's here in email, another thing CR rules calls for...
How in God's name did you become an administrator?
I suggest that you take a Midol, smoke some weed or something, because you KNOW. You KNOW, I did NOTHING to violate the rules.
YOU have violated the rules more so than me!
But I get banned?!?!
Anonymous
Thursday, March 20, 2003 01:08:54 AM
IP: 152.163.189.68

Just studied today, and finished up some random stuff before I leave for spring break in...16 hours!!!

Question: <<Why is the 5th season the last season of Timedancer?>>: Because after that they aren't going to write any more.
<<what about the further adventures of Brooklyn and Family and the story of how they acquire Nudnik and how the twins grow up?>>: Maybe they won't write it all. As for growing up, TGS doesn't need to write every day of the twins existence. Remember that when Brooklyn returns to the "present", the twins are still very much children.
<>: LOL you might be out of breath.

Bengali: Welcome back, even though I have no idea who you are.
<<every link is either broken or hasn't been updated since 1999>>: You can imagine my disappointment when I discovered the fandom in 2000.

Gabriel: Sorry about your dad and your grandpa. Hope your dad feels better.

JacKaL: <>: I bet not.
<<all you can do is ban THIS computer>>: Actually, all he can do is ban your IP address. Its pretty trivial to get around it.
<<is there anyone that can be contacted about this?>>: Talk to the admin...DOH!

Niamhgold: <<it's going to be warm and sunny and I plan a trip to the aquarium>>: I hate you.

Lain: <<forgive me lord josh for assuming such an error>>: Okay, but only this time.
<<DU was deliberately intended to inflict this long-term damage>>: great idea! We don't want our enemies breeding and creating more little enemies!
<<im not just a granola crunchin, tree huggin, veggie eatin, bistro attendin dumbass hippie who hates all americans>>: I've never seen you crunch granola.

Gunjack: <<*pained expression* ...logic CAN be your friend, ma'am>>: She's right.

Revel: << that's what Josh claimed at least>>: And I stand correct.

Kaioto: <<I'd recommend taking a time-out>>: While I agree, there isn't anyone to take his place.

Bud Clare: <<Maybe if you paid me enough>>: Only if you're hot.
<>: Fool.
<<Pervert>>: Of course.
<<Grow up>>: NEVER!
<<I'm having a few opinions about you right now>>: But most of them involve calling him names, right? ;-)
<<Do you have any grasp of logic at all?>>: Well, he isn't female, so we can safely assume that he doesn't subscribe to YOUR brand of logic.
<<If we disagree with you, we _must_ not have been paying attention>>: I've always been a fan of "if you're smart, you'll agree with me".
<<The chimps were too busy throwing sh*t at each other to notice>>: One hit my science teacher.
<<It will. Promise>>: Probably in May.
<<Which technospeak?>>: Seriously. Technospeak has computer stuff in it.

Gside: <<sometimes I just want some fun without all that romance getting in the way>>: That often requires more than just boobs.
<<What about beards?>>: Them too.
<<The English langauge is already messed up. Why put in something that makes sense?>>: To help.
<<should we just pitch the idea to Hefner?>>: Yes.

Fire Storm: <<Has France surrendered yet?>>: Twice.

156. If I have the hero and his party trapped, I will not wait until my Superweapon charges to finish them off if more conventional means are available.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Thursday, March 20, 2003 01:08:43 AM
IP: 64.160.47.45

Wild Speculation #2:

The US has no intention of freeing Iraq, but setting up another dictatorship and censroing the media so no one knows; that way we can freely plunder their natural resources!

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:53:56 AM
IP: 66.169.209.155

Wild Speculation #1:

Saddam Hussein agrees to exile but doesnt want to say that he agrees... Hence his assassination is staged... 12 years later someone sees him in saudi arabia in one of the terrorist networks.
silvadel
Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:40:30 AM
IP: 208.58.107.167

One more thing:
Has France surrendered yet? ;)
Fire Storm
Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:33:39 AM
IP: 208.143.21.10

Who thinks up the names of these campaigns?

Operations Iraqi Freedom?
Fire Storm
Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:32:21 AM
IP: 208.143.21.10

Greg Bishansky><Do you really want us to post spoilers? >

No I prefer to bitch and moan until 2005 when season 5 of the Timedancer saga debuts. :)
The Question
Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:05:15 AM
IP: 67.233.23.128

kai>> <<still venturing into the land of ad hominem attacks (aka) flames, whatever literary convention you may so choose>> my apologies. it wasnt meant in that way, it was meant as a reference to the addiction americans (and others) have to the news.. especially bad news.

<> i hope you actually looked at what i wrote. i think if youre going to be repeating the rhetoric, you (and the rest of the people in here who believe it) owe it to yourselves to find out if it is true.

if you (or anyone else in here) disagree, please tell me why.

fin.
lain
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:30:57 PM
IP: 65.93.72.36

Bud-Clare - Talking trash to me because you think I was banned? LoL
It's a joke! Apparently alot of people don't follow my "intelligent humour". hehehe
But to answer your question <<Do you have any grasp of logic at all>>
Not if you don't! ;)

And Kaioto you're right, Greg is CLEARLY abusing his power, is there anyone that can be contacted about this?
person formly known as JacKaL
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:27:49 PM
IP: 65.19.131.218

KAI> You are right on several points. Will reply to you in an e-mail soon.

GSIDE> <<Truly? And I thought Megumi Hayashibara was a sure indication of high quality.>> Usually yes. But this is a case where Megumi was (IMO) horribly miscast. The character she voices in CB; Faye Valentine is supposed to sound mature, sexy, and more than a little bitter at times. Megumi sounds a lot more like Merle from "Vision of Escaflowne". The dub actress for Faye; Wendy Lee does a much better job voicing Faye. Of course, the Japanese have a different interpretation of what sounds sexy. I.E. extremely high voices, but damn it's all wrong for Faye. The rest of the dub cast is very damn good also.

THE QUESTION> Do you really want us to post spoilers?

LEO> <<Well at least it's TGS related "bitch and moan" :p>> True.

BUD-CLARE> Despite some differences of opinion we've had on occasion. I like you ;)

Yeah, I definetly hope that "Decapitation Strike" (gods I hate euphemisms) succeeded and they nailed Saddam. Would be the best thing to happen. But I still want to put him and Bush in a rocket and fire it into the center of the sun ;)

::Goes back to watching the news::
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:25:45 PM
IP: 216.179.1.157

Leo <In Timedancer season 1 Brooklyn learns of the "Space Spawn Incursion of 2158." >

Oops forgot about that episode.

<The Space Spawn do arrive on earth in 2158 however, they will be keeping a low profile, there are only rumors at this time (as Sata explains to Brooklyn when he returns at the end of season 3)>

Actually didn't the Space-Spawn arrive on Earth during the Dark Ages since they made an appearance in Dragon's Stone?

And what is the official view of the TGS staff involving Sata's line about Space-Spawn in our system?
The Question
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:10:22 PM
IP: 67.233.23.128

Kai><>
...Guess you didn't like those citations much then, eh? Care to explain why?

Assassination Attempt on Saddam - Let's hope it worked.
V
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:50:06 PM
IP: 65.93.72.36

Lila> <<why arn't there more forms of contraception for MEN?>>: Even if you kill them all, we keep making more, so it wouldn't work for very long.
<<but doesn't that add to the allure?>>: Allure, yes. Instantaneous enjoyment, not really.
<<Boobs alone, fun. Boobs attached to a living creature with will, desires, creativity... come on, now>>: Bus sometimes I just want some fun without all that romance getting in the way.
<<34D/+ cup girls in bikinis on trampolines?>>: Partly, but I was referring to quantity in time, not space.

Imzadi> <<People with mustaches are evil>>: What about beards?
<<The word negates itself when used in that context>>: The English langauge is already messed up. Why put in something that makes sense?
<<If they were naked, I'd buy>>: Now how do we get funding for a new cable channel? And all the models? Or should we just pitch the idea to Hefner?
<<There's oxygen up there, I'm sure>>: That wasn't me.

Welcome back Bengali.

Gabriel> Condolences.

Gunjack> <<In a single exposure the eyes are more susceptible to mustard than either the respiratory tract>>: Well, the eyes are more delicate. Any word on what the definition of an exposure is? Chlorine is the second most electronegative monatomic substance, meaning it grabs electrons very, very well. Though I am reminded of one of my favorite quotes, from a science video where they made salt: "You can smell the chlorine gas."
<<Gside, I got that marvelous Berlioz peice>>: Wey hey. Any other requests? Shying away from techno, if you would.
<<Thank you exceedingly for providing it>>: Eh, you'll be provided with more after I get back an start burning Chobits, unless I'm going to sell you on some other series and end up duplicating my entire collection.
<<maybe sometime soon I'll get a post in with something other than technobabble>>: I'm an engineer, I like technobabble. Granted I lean more towards the purely technical than that.
<<COWBOY BEBOP WILL BE IN THEATERS THIS APRIL>>: 18 theaters, to be precise. And none in Jersey.

Greg> <<this is one of the rare cases where the dub is better>>: Truly? And I thought Megumi Hayashibara was a sure indication of high quality.

Bud Clare> <<Maybe if you paid me enough>>: Excellent. But we've already decided that I am omnipresent.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:45:13 PM
IP: 68.38.240.227

Bush gains another couple of points in my book...

He pretty much assured the media that nothing was going to happen -- go home and go to sleep -- it is coming later...

Kerboom -- the engagement starts with what looks like assassination attempts on saddam and friends specifically.

The media will never trust Bush again ;)

silvadel
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:31:55 PM
IP: 208.58.107.167

Angel ep> *squeals* That... was... SO cool. The puppy...

************************
Gside> <<May I watch?>>
Maybe if you paid me enough.
************************
Josh> <<But we're not supposed to get involved in land wars in Asia.>>
I don't think that Bush knows that one.

<< <<and isn't going to eat your babies>>: what about Fire Storm?>>
*hides Fire Storm under the rug* What Fire Storm?

<<Deja vu.>>
I'm stuck in a loop. *whimpers*
**********************
Lila> <<Oh, say no MORE! Nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat.>>
*L* Pervert. I was thinking more of slamming my ears in the oven door, which is good because my ears are too smart (*snickers* I meant "small") to be able to do that. ;)

<<I'm still hoping without much faith that it's all a cover up ruse for some covert operation that smarter people have planned, using the puppetman as a decoy...>>
This has potential...

<<When you set your plan in action... let's collaborate, hmm?>>
A little more flattery and you're a shoo-in. ;)
***************************
JacKal> <<And it happens yet again, more anti-Bush comments and STILL no one seems to be against Saddam Hussein. Do we have blinders on people?>>
If you didn't see anyone against Sadaam, then we really do have an issue with blinders in here.

<<while also expressing his support for the liberal terrorist supporter!>>
Grow up.

<<And for the record, I'm not name calling, I'm giving my opinions.>>
I'm having a few opinions about you right now...

<<Best I can tell, you don't like my OPINION on Lain's views because you agree with her, and therefore felt like I was calling YOU a Liberal Terrorist Supporter>>
Do you have any grasp of logic at all?
*******************
Attila> <<There is no need to cause any sort of flame war like this.>>
Aside from providing me with entertainment... ;)
************************
Lain> <<ive said what i wanted to say, even though nobody seems to have had their eyes open for it... >>
*L* Of course. If we disagree with you, we _must_ not have been paying attention. It's the only explanation. Excuse me while I laugh at you.
**************************
Bengali> I kinda remember you. WB. :)

<<No welcome? No 'howdie doo'? *sniffles*>>
The chimps were too busy throwing sh*t at each other to notice. ;)
(And no, I'm not actually calling anyone here a chimp. (At least, not right now. ;) I was going for the mental imagery, not the insult.)
**********************
Gabriel> <<I'm having the worst semester ever.>>
I'm sorry.

<<It just doesn't end.>>
It will. Promise.
*********************
Gunjack> <<Saddam's purported record of chemical weapons use has been touted in the media as evidence of his evil character for as long as I can remember.>>
Which is clearly silly, since the best evidence of his evil character is actually his total lack of fashion sense, but no one ever mentions that. (That's not a good joke, so just ignore it.)

<<...And assuming anyone's still reading after all that technospeak...>>
*blinks* Which technospeak?

<<*pained expression* ...logic CAN be your friend, ma'am...>>
Yeah, 'cause you can use it to justify damn near anything.

<<Does the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" ring any bells? Shouldn't you have to prove that someone IS something before bulldozing their house? Or am I just being impractical here?>>
Thank you. I was too lazy to respond to that.

<<If at all possible, try to restrain your enthusiasm at the deaths of the 18-year-old conscripts who are paying with their lives for descisions they did not make.>>
Especially around me, because I won't hesitate to smack people upside the head for that sort of thing.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:26:00 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

So it's begun. May God be with the people of Iraq and with our Troops. I hope all of this ends soon...
person formly known as JacKaL
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:22:47 PM
IP: 65.19.131.218

Greg >> Sorry, swearing and violating the CR rating under the admin badge is completely unacceptable. Your crossing the lines of professional and personal far too much for my tastes. Speaking from prior experiences with SJ and Pistoff and some of the ugliest rows in CR history, I'd recommend taking a time-out.

Also, Lain, the whole "you're sucking up lies like a crack addict" is still venturing into the land of ad hominem attacks (aka) flames, whatever literary convention you may so choose.

I also see you as readily accepting lies and ignoring reality as it suits you. I doubt you'll see it my way, nor I yours. Such is life.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:22:13 PM
IP: 66.30.158.19

According to Lain, the US has begun bombing in Iraq. When you're watching those wonderfull videos of bombs slamming into targets on CNN, try to remember that there are people dying over there, many of whom may have done nothing wrong, and who have had no control over the events that lead us to this. If at all possible, try to restrain your enthusiasm at the deaths of the 18-year-old conscripts who are paying with their lives for descisions they did not make.

Peace
V
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:05:00 PM
IP: 65.93.72.36

Lain, Kai> THanks :) Epsecially for the prayers, Kai. My mom just called and told me to be home tommorrow; they're going to unplug the machines on friday :/ So, at least I'll get to see him one last time beforehe dies, though he may not respond. :(
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 09:24:06 PM
IP: 66.169.209.155

Greetings;

Amazingly I am not here to weigh in on the Iraq conflict. I don't like it and I'm glad Canada has decided not to take part but I don't feel like getting involved in the shouting match.

Science Lesson Ahead:

Lila: About male contraceptives. The reason why there is such a limited range of male contraceptives is due to the difference in mode of action. In males contraception must occur at the level of gametogenisis (the production of sperm of egg cells) while most chemical contraceptives for womem work by taking advantace of a hormonal feedback effect. When a female is pregnant she does not ovulate, this is accomplished through an hormonal interaction between the hormones estrogen, progesterone and the pituitary galand. It is this gland that produces the folicle stimulating hormone (FSH)that triggers the release of an egg from the ovary. During pregnancy these hormones block the release of FSH and as such block ovulation. The birth control pill and other chemical contraceptives use estrogen and progersterone to trick the body into thinking that is's already pregnant, as a result of this ovulation is blocked (inhibited would be a better term).

The problem is in males is that there is no natural switch that stops sperm production. Once gametogenisis begins, it's not meant to stop for the lifespan of the male. Stopping gametogenesis can be accomplished through hormone use although this has many side effects in men (behavioural and physiological) and many current treatments have a small chance of permanent infertility. The trick is in designing a contraceptive that somehow disables sperm without stopping gametogenesis. Currently there is interst in immunological methods, but these have yet to enter type 2 trials.

So there's a quick lesson for you. The problem with male contraceptives is that there is no natural switch that can be used. Something may be available in about 10 years if the current trials go well. Until then the only option for chemical contraceptives will be those for women.

End of science lesson. Hope this was a little interesting.
Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 09:22:17 PM
IP: 24.102.228.212

Greg<<Do us all a favor and WAIT till season five of "Timedancer" before bitching and moaning about it now.>>

Well at least it's TGS related "bitch and moan" :p

::continues the "bitching"::

Re: Timedancer and the Space Spawn.

Question and "Anonymous":>In Timedancer season 1 Brooklyn learns of the "Space Spawn Incursion of 2158." Keep in mind that at the time season one came out (October 1998?), "Gargoyles 2198" was still "2158" in Greg's "masterplan." I thik it's only been "2198" since 2001. Anyway (I'm just guessing here)to keep reasonably close to the "master plan" thre was a compromise: The Space Spawn do arrive on earth in 2158 however, they will be keeping a low profile, there are only rumors at this time (as Sata explains to Brooklyn when he returns at the end of season 3)They wont make their "public appearance" until 2198.

Question:<<So now you have to wrap up the whole arc with Apep which is at least going to take a majority of season 5 since Apep is the Big Bad of Timedancer who you guys have been building up since season 1 and then cover the final years of Brooklyn's Timedancing and wrap up a few dangling threads such as where they got Nudnik>> that's basically puts into detail what I had said. In other words if I were to make a comparison to Star Trek TNG I would say season four was "The Best of Both worlds part 1" (The "BORG" cliffhanger) which most trekkies feel was the biggest adversary the crew faced. Nothing ever matches the intensity after that, but there are still several significant "character development" episodes during the last few seasons before the journey "ends".

This is fun :-)
Leo
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 08:58:55 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Well, time's up. Saddam had his last chance. He screwed himself and everyone else over (but what did we expect?). So, I say we just get this over with now. The sooner we capture or kill Saddam the better it's going to be for all involved.

GUNJACK> Cowboy Bebop? Yes! I've been looking forward to the CB movie for a long time. The show rocks, and the movie rocks also. I've seen it in Japanese, but since this is one of the rare cases where the dub is better, I'm really looking forward to it.

JACKAL> ::clicks link:: damn, the site changed. thesmirkingchimp.com used to be a site with lots of anti-Bush news articles coming from many credible sources. Must have just disappeared. It was up and working a few days ago. Somehow the timing of that makes me uneasy. Bush's Gestapo buddies are every where.

::Puts on Admin badge::

<<So prove your Saddam-like qualities and ban me>>

Gladly. Bye bye.
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 08:30:38 PM
IP: 216.179.6.121

Greg Bishansky>< Do us all a favor and WAIT till season five of "Timedancer" before bitching and moaning about it now. >

Actually I'm bitching and moaning about the decision to end Timedancer at season 5 which is in my opinion isn't a good decision since Timedancer is one of your flagship spinoffs along with Gargoyles. It would be like ending your Babylon 5 at season 4 or Star Trek: Deep Space Nine at season 6.
The Question
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 08:30:00 PM
IP: 67.233.56.126

Jackal - Well... Uh... That was, um, easy? Okay, cool. o.O

And in other news, COWBOY BEBOP WILL BE IN THEATERS THIS APRIL! Sweet Baby Jesus!
Gunjack "Bingo Roger!" Valentine
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 08:17:09 PM
IP: 65.93.72.36

And now for some thing no one else gives a damn about... or that that's what Josh claimed at least. ;)

Well, Spacebabie had to go back to Orlando today, just as well, we'll probably be nuking Iraq before the night is out and then the counterattacks and riots will begin. But it was a nice little vacation having her at my home.
As for the world going to Hell in a handbasket, well, still glowing so ask me tomorrow.

"And you know what Hell is folks? It's Andy Gibb, singing Shadow Dancing for eons and eons and you have to where bright orange and plad bell bottoms and sit next to the Bay City Rollers."

-Denis Leary-
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
the bayou city, tx
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 08:09:18 PM
IP: 24.241.186.81

Gunjack, you're right on that. Sorry, I withdrawl my staement.And I'm being serious, you're right.
JacKaL yet again, damn me!
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 07:50:52 PM
IP: 152.163.189.68

OMG!!!
Greg, buddy.
TheSmirkingChimp.com is a link that has pornography on it! Naughty, naughty, I believe that may be against the rules...

But what do I know, I'm just a lowly servent.
JacKaL
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 07:48:32 PM
IP: 152.163.189.68

First off, I'd like to appologize to Kai and the admins for the nasty tone this little communique has taken. Lain had second thoughts about posting her nastier comments, but I encouraged her to get it out of her system.
Mea culpa.

So, down to cases.

<> ...We ignored all your arguements? Which ones would those be?

Kaioto><<My statement was, in fact: "Your uncited 'facts' were quite charming.">> Ah, point. Most of that was my fault (it was late, and I was tired), which omissions will be corrected now.

<<Aside from being another uncited source, to go "blistering! Oooooooo!" on the line right after claiming that one out of every 4 British soldiers exposed to Mustard Gas was killed seems rather ... um ... contradictory? Insulting? Nonsensical, perhaps? Nevermind the blindness, internal and external bleeding on the list as well.>>

Fair enough. In all honesty, those numbers were whipped up from "Ask Jeeves". While I'm sure they're quite accurate, an internet search engine just doesn't pack that special punch.

According to the NATO Handbook on the Medical Aspects of NBC Defensive Operations:

"In a single exposure the eyes are more susceptible to mustard than either the respiratory tract or the skin... Mustard burns of the eyes may be divided as follows:
(1) Mild conjunctivitis (75% of cases in World War 1). Recovery takes 1 to 2 weeks.
(2) Severe conjunctivitis with minimal corneal involvement (15% of cases in World War 1). Blepharospasm, oedema of the lids and conjunctival occur, as may orange-peel roughening of the cornea. Recovery takes 2 to 5 weeks.
(3) Mild corneal involvement (10% of cases in World War 1). Areas of corneal erosion stain green with fluorescein dyes. Superficial corneal scarring and vascularisation occurs as does iritis. Temporary relapses occur and convalescence may take 2 to 3 months. Hospital care is indicated for casualties of this type.
(4) Severe corneal involvement (about 0.1% of World War 1 mustard casualties). Ischaemic necrosis of the conjunctival may be seen. Dense corneal opacification with deep ulceration and vascularisation occurs. Convalescence may take several months and patients are predisposed to late relapses. Although temporary blindness may occur, permanent blindness is very rare.
b. Casualties should therefore be reassured and a positive attitude taken.
c. Care must be exercised to avoid transferring liquid agent from the hands to the eyes."

...You get the picture. Note that single-exposure harms the eyes most, and permanent, severe damage is rare enough to warrant a "positive attitude". If you want the rest of the readout, you can find it at:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/fm8-9/3ch3.htm#s1p2
Section II - 309 and following.

The NATO Handbook has lots of info on the effects of nerve agents, but didn't supply a lethal dose that I could find. You can read it here:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/fm8-9/3ch2.htm#s2
...Other sources described the lethal dose of nerve agents such as VX as "able to fit on the head of a pin", and described nerve agents as "hundreds of times more lethal" than the blistering gases.

<> Good. Unfortunately, the rest of the country sems to disagree with you. Saddam's purported record of chemical weapons use has been touted in the media as evidence of his evil character for as long as I can remember.

<<And I'll also point out that I never referenced chemical or biological weapons in my posts.>>...
...
...To my utter mortification, it would appear that no, you didn't. My appologies.

<<- Again, citing a credible source on the uranium dust would be most helpful.>> Well, there's the official Rand report commissioned by the Defense Department...
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/du/mr1018.7.sum.html
...And then there's the evidence that Rand was wrong. Unfortunately, I can't link directly to the report; it's the third and fourth link from the top, the one entitled "... as we did in the Iraq desert, ten years after the Gulf War", and "Science on Trial", on this page:
http://www.llrc.org/du/duframes.htm
The former article is a record of a survey the author made personally of the Iraqi countryside, including several of the Gulf War battlefields, and the latter is a rather long presentation on the hazards of DU.

and then some more on this page:
http://www.antenna.nl/wise-database/uranium/dhap993.html

And if you have a strong stomach, here's a rather emotional report on the health of the Iraqi people.
http://www.antenna.nl/wise-database/uranium/dhap996.html

At the time I first read it, I considered discounting that last one as propaganda promulgated by Saddam's henchmen. Unfortunately, reports much like this keep cropping up again and again. Search a little, and you'll find all you want.

<<- No, Lain should cite a credible source.>> Well here's one to start with...
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/wholostkuwait.html
...And if you don't like that one, I'm sure she can give you some more. I might point out that when reading these articles, try to ignore the invective and focus on the facts presented. Many of the authors do not particularly like us, but that does not nescessarily mean that they're lying.

<<Saddam is an openly hostile dictator, and defiant of the cease-fire agreement he had to sign after he invade a neighboring country. He's broken that agreement numerous times in efforts to rebuild his military - with special emphasis on rampant illegal importation of conventional arms and ammunition.>>
The world is full to overflowing with openly hostile dictators. Violation of cease-fire agreements and repudation of UN resolutions is hardly rare, even in our allies *coughcoughIsraelcough*. Neither are flagrant human rights violations (Israel again in a staggering way, and oh GOD guatemala). And if I might be so bold, importation of *CONVENTIONAL* arms... So we're attacking Iraq because he's trying to have an ARMY? Why exactly (and on what authority) did we decide not to let him have a CONVENTIONAL ARMY?

The fact is, Kai, we've screwed Iraq six ways from sunday. We slaughtered their army, arguably commiting a few rather hienous war crimes along the way:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/surgical_bmb_myth.html (and check the link at the bottom that mentions who this report was for...)
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/clark_iraq_warcrime.html (who's Ramsey Clark? I'm SURE I've heard that name before...)
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/hwy_death.html (this one is heavily slanted, but the main facts are true and easily verifiable.)
...I say arguably, because many of these instances (particularly the "Highway of death") are open to interpretation. In any case, we then proceeded to LEAVE THEIR DICTATOR IN POWER when we might have easily removed him, we destroyed much of the nation's vital infrastructure (bridges, water purification and sewage systems, power plants), and we've placed and maintained an exceedingly vicious embargo on the country for more than a decade.

For the record, I believe that this war SHOULD be prosecuted. I believe Saddam Hussien is guilty of severe human rights violations, including rampant torture and murder of civilians, and that he continues to persue weapons of mass destruction. Following the Gulf War, inspectors discovered that Iraqi military scientists had come within six months of completing a functional nuclear device; all they needed was to finish refining the uranium. Saddam has failed to adequately account for several tons of VX nerve agents and weaponized anthrax. Between those facts and the massive debt of honor we owe the iraqi people for all the f!ckage we've given them over the past few decades, I think removing Saddam and rebuilding their country is the very least we can do.

...And assuming anyone's still reading after all that technospeak...

Josh><<Boy it sure sounds like it.>> No way. I happen to have a fondness for Willie Pete, especially in powdered form loaded into shotguns. Mmmm, instant flamethrower...

Lila><<You've done this before, havn't you? :-P>> She used to be an admin, so she's got the lingo down pat.

Dezi><<Just pick the facts that support your side (which ever side) and you're all set.>> *pained expression* ...logic CAN be your friend, ma'am...

Jackal><<Well hell, that's simple. How do you know those homes didn't?>> Does the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" ring any bells? Shouldn't you have to prove that someone IS something before bulldozing their house? Or am I just being impractical here? <<It's the front lines of war, there is collateral damage and then there's not.>> ...Except that no war has been declared. At ALL. Israeli troops routinely attack and kill unarmed palestinian civilians, shoot stone-throwing children, and hold ambulances at checkpoints until the palestinian occupants have died. Israeli settlers beat palestinian CHILDREN to death, and are aquitted by Israeli courts. The current Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, is a WAR CRIMINAL with a hideous record; do a search for "Ariel Sharon Sabra Shatilla" some time... the later two names are those of the refugee camps he allowed to be slaughtered as Israel's Defense Minister.

...Oh, screw it. That's all for me tonight; I'm gonna go off and write or sommat. Gside, I got that marvelous Berlioz peice. Thank you exceedingly for providing it, and maybe sometime soon I'll get a post in with something other than technobabble.

Peace, Love, Dope!
Gunjack "Bigot Boy " Valentine
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 07:44:08 PM
IP: 65.93.72.36

No welcome? No 'howdie doo'? *sniffles*

Concerning the war against Iraq... I'm part Iraqi myself, Iraqi-Lebanese-British-Polish (interesting combo, eh?) I speak very little Arabic though, and was born in the USA. I have no ties, nor does my family, to anything middle-eastern except for a pronounced fondness for sasouf (tabouli). My personal view is that ANYONE who dares to threaten the USofA needs to be wiped off the face of the earth. No pondering over why they feel that way, or what can we do to make them love us (paying them more money, or in other words, allowing them to blackmail us), or any other Liberal junk that's been the focus of the news stations lately. America's greatest obligation is to itself, not to little third-world countries with chips on their shoulders that have decided they want us dead. I could ramble on longer, but I won't. It's only a few more hours 'til Saddam's time runs up and I have a few errands I need to run.

Later!
Bengali - [delphu@netscape.net]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 07:43:43 PM
IP: 172.193.224.248

Greg! You called me friend! Well, I'll call you "Pal"!
Allow me to repost this in which the way it frist appeared...

EVERYONE IN THE CR PLEASE READ!

<<As far as I'm concerned, when you refer to someone as a "Liberal Terrorist Supporter", that's a fucking flame. That's fucking name calling. I'd be reacting the same if it was coming from someone on the opposite end of the spectrum.>>

Let's point out what's wrong with this, shall we?

1. Our beloved Admin. Badge holder has clearly disregarded the CR rating.
Forgot to censor yourself there, eh pal?
Not setting a fine example now are you?
Or is it because you have the "power" you can do and say whatever you like?

2. So, I flamed somebody? Is that right? Take a good long look.
Lain hasn't even acknowledged that I exist, so I guess she's soooo hurt by what I said.
Best I can tell, you don't like my OPINION on Lain's views because you agree with her, and therefore felt like I was calling YOU a Liberal Terrorist Supporter.

And look how you bitch at "The Question".... are you sure you are able to do this job?
So prove your Saddam-like qualities and ban me, after all, all you can do is ban THIS computer.

Hehe, haven't been back a week and already threatened with being banned. I wish SJ was here to see this!
JacKaL
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 07:32:25 PM
IP: 152.163.189.68

Ugh... wrong e-mail address. This one's correct (minus the "NOSPAM").
Patrick Toman - [puck@NOSPAMartchicks.org]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 07:10:42 PM
IP: 65.43.158.175

Stephen > What that auction should say is "If bidding goes over $100, winning bidder should get their head examined, 'cause these still sell every day for about $10 max on eBay."

BTW, could you please e-mail me? My addy is below... just remove the part that says "NOSPAM."
Patrick Toman - [puck@NOSPAMart-chicks.org]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 07:09:02 PM
IP: 65.43.158.175

Hey, gargfans... just thought you avid collectors might want to look at this one:

http://www.furbid.ws/cgi-bin/auction.pl?plushfur&1048371837

Or clickie my name for direct link.

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL, USA
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 06:04:57 PM
IP: 65.35.132.55

The Question> Do us all a favor and WAIT till season five of "Timedancer" before bitching and moaning about it now.
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 05:03:28 PM
IP: 216.179.6.121

Anonymous><so what makes you think it happens before he leaves the future?>

The fact that he mentions it along with Broadway's daughter when he is delusional makes it apparent that he is referring to events in the future.

<Timedancer is in 2174 right now, it cant coverd 24 years in the future>

Well I was under the assumption you were going to have them invade soon since the space spawn do enter the solar system around 2168 which is contradicted by "Before the Storm" so maybe I'm wrong, but still could a member of the TGS staff explain what Sata meant in Return to Paradise about Space-Spawn entering the system if it didn't happen?

<the kids are only 16 when they get back home since the kids are already 6, there are only 10 years left to cover.>

How is that possible? Season 1&2 covered roughly 2 decades which you guys have confirmed and season 3 was around 1 or 2 years in length(confirmed by Return to Paradise) and season 4 is around 6 years in length since it starts around 2168 and ends in 2173 so Brooklyn is now in his 27th year of Timedancing. So now you have to wrap up the whole arc with Apep which is at least going to take a majority of season 5 since Apep is the Big Bad of Timedancer who you guys have been building up since season 1 and then cover the final years of Brooklyn's Timedancing and wrap up a few dangling threads such as where they got Nudnik and Sata's knowledge of their future dances.
The Question
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 04:42:27 PM
IP: 216.170.210.79

*** Enters wearing Adminbadge ***

JACKAL> <<Single me out just because you don't like what I post?
I feel sorry for the next person that says something that you don't like.>>

Listen and listen good. I did not single you out because I don't like what you say. If that were true then believe me, there are plenty of people here who'd have been banned long ago.

As far as I'm concerned, when you refer to someone as a "Liberal Terrorist Supporter", that's a fucking flame. That's fucking name calling. I'd be reacting the same if it was coming from someone on the opposite end of the spectrum. Both lain and Kai heard it from me before.

You're on thin ice my friend. Next time, you're gone.
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 03:54:02 PM
IP: 216.179.6.121

gside>> <<Actually, Webster does recognize it, even if it doesn't prefer it>> thats gross! :P

lila>> <<You've done this before, havn't you? :-P>> whatever gave you that idea?? 0:)

josh>> <<Not to me. Because I know everything>> my bad. forgive me lord josh for assuming such an error. <<The Northern Alliance doesn't want to blow up our buildings> or bomb your island << The Ameican media has never looked good>> especially that nasty paula zahn.. uugh.. <<Boy it sure sounds like it>> that was gunjacks part, not mine

kai>> <<rather than the uncited claims were rather glaring>> so are some of yours, you must admit.

"by most accounts of the people who lived under them, the "northern alliance" leaders in afganistan had a worse record of brutality, genocide and random thuggery than everybodys favourite pinata (aka the taliban)"
i saw much on the subject on cbc but i cant remember the names of the documentaries. "irregardless;" here is a source and two articles for you.
http://rawa.false.net/na2.htm
http://rawa.false.net/na-dan.htm

<<Former Senior Political Analyst on Iraq. This tells me very little about how privy he is to tactical reports, but certainly serves well to make him - sound - important>>

i guess giving you his name wasnt enough. the referenced article is plastered all over the web - but for people too lazy to put a little effort into it, here is a site where the ny times article is quoted.

http://truthout.org/docs_02/020303C.htm

<<And he notes that Iraq DID use gas against its civilian Kurd ethnic minority, and only goes so far as to claim that Saddam wanted to kill the Iranians more, but didn't mind if he killed the Kurds along with them. That doesn't disprove any claims about the man>> of course it does. it becomes a tragedy of war rather than a mass murder, and thats an important distinction. it happened during a battle, and its quite likely that it wasnt iraqi gas that killed the kurds caught in the middle. it doesnt matter to the kurds, they still suffered horribly, but it matters because this is one of the big reasons america is pinning up that saddam is so bad and needs to be removed. the reason is false.. not that there arent others.. but this isnt one of them.

<<No one claimed Iraq was the only player or even the biggest player in the Kurd slaughters>> i dont know which news YOU are listening to.. but i havent heard one single peep about "iran slaughtered the kurds." o.O

<<deny the claims that Saddam killed and abused many, many Kurds>> of course he did. so did/does iran and turkey (whos help you are currently trying to get)

<<Aside from being another uncited source, to go "blistering! Oooooooo!" on the line right after claiming that one out of every 4 British soldiers exposed to Mustard Gas was killed seems rather ... um ... contradictory? Insulting? Nonsensical, perhaps? Nevermind the blindness, internal and external bleeding on the list as well>> gunjack, not me. ill let him handle the response to that one.

""before you gave him the green light to invade kuwait (look it up, eh?),"

- No, Lain should cite a credible source"

how about.. "the US state department"

<<Again, citing a credible source on the uranium dust would be most helpful>> well, in your definition of what needs credible sources, i believe you mentioned "facts that were not in common circulation".. it seems odd to me that you would need this referenced, as i thought it WAS pretty darned common knowledge. oh well, here goes then. ill quote from an article from New Scientist magazine; written by terry allen, who was part of a medical and human rights research team who, sponsored by the centre for economic and social rights in new york, recently visited iraq.

"whether i hate saddam or not, and im not saying i do," one man said quietly to me during my recent trip to iraq, "i hate america - the government, not the people - for what it did and is going to do to our children"
his is nto a lone voice. the vast majority of the iraqi people i spoke to believe the US committed war crimes during the last gulf war in 1991 by targeting civillians with chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. they believe it used depleted uranium (DU) weapons deliberately to cause cancer and inflict birth defects for generations to come.
propaganda? perhaps. but when so many people believe it in a country the US hopes to "liberate" from oppression, it cannot be lightly dismissed. with war seemingly unstoppable, there is a gaping disconnect - in iraq and many other parts of the world- between how the US sees its campaign and how others see it.

in 1991, american gunners fired a million rounds of DU projectiles to destroy iraqi armoured vehicles. DU rounds are far more effective than regular ammunition at penetrating armour; they are denser and generate intense heat on impact, and literally burn their way through. the heat also causes the radioactive DU to disintegrate into fine particles that contaminate soil, water, air and people... [theres a goodly chunk more in the middle but i dont want to post the whole thing because its pretty long. if anyone wants the whole thing, leave me your email and ill type it up and send it] ... from baghdad to basra, and from government officials to foreigh-trained doctors and impoverished mothers, the iraqis i talked to all believe that DU is causing an epidemic of cancer and birth defects... the area most exposed to DU - cancer rates are now 11 times what they were before the last war... a woman arrived holding a baby. she gently peeled back the infants clothes to show me a red tumour, convoluted and fist-sized, on the infants back. "DU did this to my baby" she said. "the doctors told me that if the tumour is removed, he will probably die. tell that to bush, please, and ask him why his father did this to my child" others told of birth defects "caused by DU", or of a child with leukaemia who could not get medication "because of the embargo". "i am afraid to get pregnant" said one woman as others nodded. and each was convinced that DU was deliberately intended to inflict this long-term damage. this was not "collateral damage".
they "knew" this just as surely as the americans "knew" in 1991 that iraqi soldiers had thrown kuwaiti babies out of incubators to die on hospital floors. after the incubator story had successfully demonised the iraqi military and ennobleded the cause of liberating kuwait, it emerged that it had been concocted by the daughter of the kuwaiti ambassador to the UN, who wept as she told congress about the horror of the dying infants. she had been pur forward to the hearing by the public relations firm hill& knowlton. then as now, iraqis and americans alike have demonised the enemy with a toxic stew of fact, half truth, and utter nonsense. the subtlety of the seasoning varies, but the effects are always poisonous.
in the upcoming war, the pentagon will again use DU weapons... it may come to understand another "side effect" of DU; the widespread belief that the "liberators" committed henious war crimes by practicing biological, chemical and nuclear war against civillians. in such a climate, american prospects for nation building in iraq are hardly bright." 1 march edition, 2003.

if that doesnt satisfy you, gunjack will be back later with citations from the paper he wrote on the subject, in which he set out to prove that DU was harmless.. but came to the totally opposite conclusion. he also mentions something about a week-long debate on the same subject that happened less than a year ago in this very CR.

<<My interest is only in debunking common disinformation and propaganda put up by the so-called "Anti-War" movement that run contrary to basic logic or facts>> as is mine, but from the other side. i think many of your reasons for supporting this war are based in complete and utter lies and folley. i am only attempting to point some of them out to you. some of your reasons for disliking saddam are 100% true, and i agree with them. i dont like saddam, i think he is a nasty skulking bastard and i think he should be removed - but i dont agree with war that is not backed by the UN. if the UN said "YES! SQUASH HIM NOW!" i would say "WOOHOO! SIGN ME UP!!!!" but they dont. theres lots of political flapping for one reason or another, and some of that is complete sh!t too. however, if the US is so damn convinved that saddam has these weapons of mass destruction, then i would think it wouldnt be too hard to find some and prove it. the US knows where they are? great! tell the inspectors to go there! turn up something for me and ill support you! what seems to be happening is that the US is cancelling the inspectors because they know (for one reason or another) that they wont find anything. granted this could be because saddam is a sneaky-assed bastard - but unlike you, i am not completely closed off to the idea that he might not have any at all, and i am not ready to support a war (which will compound an already outrageous humanitarian disaster) on the word of g.w.
i am also not ready to back anyone who says "we should just remove him because he is a bad, bad man" unless i get to see the list of whos next. if you go ahead and remove him, where will it stop? if you go to war without the UN, its open season for everyone else who wants to do the same. that doesnt sound like much fun. you could make up some sh!t about anywhere else you dont like having WMD and go kick their asses too.. so could, say, china, or india and pakistan.. etc.

so no, im not just a granola crunchin, tree huggin, veggie eatin, bistro attendin dumbass hippie who hates all americans. i have actually thought this one through - at the end of which, i invariably come to the conclusion that your government hasnt. at this point, i become very very worried. as someone who lives on this planet and will have to suffer for the mistakes i feel you are making, does that not give me clear reasons to disagree? especially when i see that you are being lied to and appear to be sucking it up with all the eagerness of a crack addict? maybe its because im not in your country and i get to stand back a little but to me, your behaviour as a nation is disturbing and i will continue to say so until i feel you have rejoined reality.

gabe>> my condolences. expect something fuzzy in the mail.
lain
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 03:51:03 PM
IP: 65.93.72.36

Question: <Brooklyn says something about the Space-Spawn in the season 3 episode of Waystations indicating that he was there when the space-spawn invade.>so what makes you think it happens before he leaves the future? <And seasons 3,4 and probably 5 of Timedancer with Apep and the 3rd Unseelie Court and everything will only cover around one decade of Brooklyn's timedancing so an extra season 6 is the only way you'll be able to cover the last 10 years of Brooklyn's travels. > youre making a lot of asumptions. The Gargoyles Saga is trying to cover Most of Greg Weisman's plans. If Timedancer covers the whole space spawn and Third Unseelie, then what would be left to do a Gargoyles: 2198 spinoff about? Timedancer is in 2174 right now, it cant coverd 24 years in the future the kids are only 16 when they get back home since the kids are already 6, there are only 10 years left to cover.

Anonymous
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 03:51:02 PM
IP: 65.66.158.147

Gabe >> Sorry to hear about your Grandpa. I'll keep you and your family in my prayers.

re: Citation

If you want examples of citation, I usually do it by linking to a news report of one kind or another. You can scroll down to the link to the report about the groups funding so-called "Anti-War" protests OR go back to last week's CR when I posted a citation link to an article regarding sleezy practices of using fees on unwitting students to feed political lobbies. I also recommended a book called "Bias" that week as source material and recommended reading.

Beyond that, you don't need citations from Kant to point out basic logic fallacies or criticize basic inconsistancies in someone's arguments. Since I tend to stick to that rather than posting conspiracy theories, I find the need for citation in what I post rather scant.

Also, as I pointed out, and you ignored, I don't hold people for citation of things you can commonly find in a simple history book or in all the major newspapers. I don't expect a citation every time someone refers to the Nazis Holocaust having happened as fact. Most of us have read the history books. I don't expect a citation that Milosovich's troops engaged in ethnic cleansing in Serbia. It was reported in all the major papers at the time, and he's on trial for war crimes as we speak. I don't expect a citation to verify that Bush gave his speech on television the other day, since most people have seen at least some of it on various independent News networks.

If you can Google-whack something and get at least a half-dozen independent sources agreeing on something, and nothing to the contrary, then I think you can accept it as in the body of commonly accessed knowledge (right or wrong).

When someone claims something detailed, secret, and contraversial like that a government secretly planned a particular assassination, terrorists tried to poison off a population with radiation, or that a random Senator has Mafia connections, then yes, I think cited sources is a fair expectation.

Also, to come back to Josh's observation,

"<>: Lain only did the first."

That all three were thoroughly engaged in.

My original point has always been to point out the fundamental fallacies in the so-called "Anti-War" movements most popular catch-phrase accusations. If Lain wants to point out how evil the United States is, that's all well and good, but it doesn't refute any of my criticisms of bunk arguments I keep seeing at protests, "Peace" rallies, and local bistros and other hippy hang-outs. As I said, it is tangent villification, ignoring the original points.

Anyone can take whatever tangent they want on the discussion, just don't expect me to care about all of them or think that they refute my points just because you stuck my name to the tangent. My interest is only in debunking common disinformation and propaganda put up by the so-called "Anti-War" movement that run contrary to basic logic or facts.

I'm not taking many supported positions of my own, other than my belief that Iraqis will be better off if Iraq is liberated than under Saddam. For that, I feel that Japan and West Germany both held up rather nicely under American occupation.

In a very real sense, all I am is a lazy critic.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 02:58:59 PM
IP: 66.30.158.19

** Niamhgold enters **

I went to physical therapy today with a surprising good-looking PT. Though Johns Hopkins is expensive (and I may cut down due to that ;)), they've helped me a bunch with the RSI stuff and a lot of their methods are take-home methods (except for ultrasound and massage), so that cuts down on my time out ;) Then I came home, to find my roomies in somewhat of a panicky state.

I'm a little irked at my school. Today we received the standard "we're in orange alert status" notification. But this time, they're completely trying to freak us out with documents, seminars, and everything, like this:
http://pswebserver.mica.edu:88/__production/content_mgmt/global_files/page91/preparedness.doc

Or you can click my name-link.

Additionally, all of our field trips (there was a trip to meet with the founder of comics, WILL EISNER, next tuesday) to DC have been canceled. This is ridiculous! And here I am just trying to pull teeth to get an internship ;) At least our teacher has brought Jae Lee and Jim Lee to our classes...next up, Dave McKean, Chip Kidd, and some folks from top cow since my teacher just finished coloring a bunch of The Darkness. He's even getting me a bunch of free issues of Paradise X ;)

Hope you guys are all doing okay. I'll have replies hopefully by the end of this week--it's going to be warm and sunny and I plan a trip to the aquarium ;)
Niamhgold
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 01:20:46 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

Ahhh the Washington Post, the liberal stomping ground!

<>
Speaking of the Hulk, I wonder if that movie is gonna be any good?

Josh <<She lives in Canada>>
OHHHHH. That explains ALOT! LoL

<>: Lain only did the first.>>

And I get threatened with being banned the 1st time I do this.

Guess it's because I attacked the Admin. Badge. What a brutal Saddam-like dictatorship! LoL

¤¤¤¤¤Puts on Anti-Chemical-Admin. Suit¤¤¤
Single me out just because you don't like what I post?
I feel sorry for the next person that says something that you don't like.
I've been coming to this CR since the week it opened in 98, if I want to post in here, I will. I'm an American who supports the war, so therefore, I'm ignorant and hardheaded and will do anything to achieve my goals! hehe

And for the record, I'm not name calling, I'm giving my opinions. Certainly you're smart enough to see the difference, being the guy with the Admin. Badge and all...
JacKaL
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 12:51:17 PM
IP: 172.130.162.91

*comes in dressed in black*
I'm having the worst semester ever. First my dad is hospitalized with mild heart attack a month ago, then I find my roommate dead that same week, I get charged $610 to move, my truck gets towed, then, as I think things are looking up, my Grandpa (my only one) is hospitalized with cancer, then his lungs collapse and he goes into a coma. It just doesn't end. ;_;
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 12:07:21 PM
IP: 66.169.209.155

Just to calm everyone down.

Season five of "Timedancer" will indeed be more than 13 episodes. Not sure how many just yet, but enough to properly wrap things up. I've seen the plans, and things look good.

We're not sticking to the 13 episodes rule. Seasons will be as long as they need to be as Ed has pointed out. For example; season four of "Gargoyles" will be about 24 episodes long.

THE QUESTION> <<Brooklyn says something about the Space-Spawn in the season 3 episode of Waystations indicating that he was there when the space-spawn invade.>> Doesn't indicate that at all. It indicates that he's encounted the Space-Spawn, and definetly knows about their invasion. And in a series about time travel, that can mean many things.
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:49:48 AM
IP: 216.179.1.93

:: Scrolls through the war/anti war rhetoric ::
Bored now. Seriously, tediously bored. Bush is taking care of unfinished business. It needs to be done. Are there worse dictators in the world? Probably. But this is where we're at and this time, UN be damned, we're going to finish things right.

Something you probably didn't know: Guinea fowl tastes like pork. How do I know this? Last Saturday as we're finishing after breakfast coffee there's a ruckus outside. We look out the window and there's a flock of guineas grazing on the grass across the street. I go out to take a closer look and my dogs give chase. Guineas fly pretty good and soon my dogs have treed them. I call the dogs and they come trotting back. Except for one. I take the two dogs that are with me back to the house and when I turn around to get the third one she's heading back on her own with a bird in her mouth. So we had guinea fowl for dinner Saturday night. Kind of strange as I was kicking around the idea of ordering some keets just the night before. Having had a closer look at them, I think I'll hold off until next year. With the chickens, turkeys and geese I've got enough poultry projects this year.

Yeah, I've been busy. The odd bit of freelance work, but mostly a heavy duty work load of remodeling and landscaping now that the snow seems to have melted away. The wood floors are in. Can't take credit for those, but there's a bunch of finish work we didn't contract out. I still need to paint the stairs and most of the rooms still don't have shoe moulding. I've planted a lot of trees and such and the raised bed kitchen/cottage garden has probably four more days of installation/ fill work to do before the current phase is done. So yeah, I'm busy.

Cheers until next time.

kathy
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:26:16 AM
IP: 66.82.160.1

Kai> Honestly, now, I went through your posts to look for citations; now I could have overlooked something, being human and all, but I didn't find any citations in your arguments. Could you KINDLY point out where you have recently cited sources?
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:11:17 AM
IP: 66.169.209.155

Greg >> "Just for the record Kai, lain provided several citations. I'd look at her post again."

My statement was, in fact: "Your uncited 'facts' were quite charming."

I made no claim that there were Zero, citations, rather than the uncited claims were rather glaring. Many of the actual citations did not, in fact, make supporting points to Lain's conclusions either.

I'm not particularly interested in continuing the politcal discussion, but I will defend my claims about methods employed therein.

"by most accounts of the people who lived under them, the "northern alliance" leaders in afganistan had a worse record of brutality, genocide and random thuggery than everybodys favourite pinata (aka the taliban),"

- This is NOT a cited source. Nor is it a common-knowledge source. Nor is it a media report easy to confirm through conventional sources. It was certainly less brutal for the Taliban's supporters like Al-Qaede, however.

I can claim that most teenage Jews in America don't care about eating Pork, just based on personal encounters. That doesn't make it a true statement. I could also produce two separate surveys with completely different answers. Heck, some of the pre-Taliban Northern Alliance Leaders have been replaced by new leaders. Give me the actually sources for this statement, and I'll assess their credibility.

Beyond that, the pre-Taliban Northern Alliance was, IIRC a completely different Geo-Political circumstance due to the Cold War. To assume that the situation plays out is independent of its context is purely a logic fallacy.

"And in that case, it seems that our mustached friend wasnt even trying to get the kurds, or so claims stephen c. pelletiere, the CIAs senior political analyst on iraq during the 1980s:

'iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill iranians who had seized the town ... the kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. but they were not iraqs main target...' "

- Former Senior Political Analyst on Iraq. This tells me very little about how privy he is to tactical reports, but certainly serves well to make him - sound - important

- And he notes that Iraq DID use gas against its civilian Kurd ethnic minority, and only goes so far as to claim that Saddam wanted to kill the Iranians more, but didn't mind if he killed the Kurds along with them. That doesn't disprove any claims about the man.

"so according to the latest news to leak out of the american state department, everyone knows it was iran, not iraq who was responsible for the majority of the deaths from chemical attack.. but of course, why let facts get in the way of some juicy rhetoric?"

- I'm again, not sure where Lain thought she was going with this. Iran is also on the Axis-of-Evil Tour. No one claimed Iraq was the only player or even the biggest player in the Kurd slaughters. So, again, this argument, even if we accept a single man's word over that of the rest of the department on the matter, is only being used as a Straw Man.

Lain, nor Lain's source, deny the claims that Saddam killed and abused many, many Kurds.

"Mmmm, pretty nasty stuff! After all, contact with skin causes "blistering"! OOOoooooooo!"

Aside from being another uncited source, to go "blistering! Oooooooo!" on the line right after claiming that one out of every 4 British soldiers exposed to Mustard Gas was killed seems rather ... um ... contradictory? Insulting? Nonsensical, perhaps? Nevermind the blindness, internal and external bleeding on the list as well.

I will agree, however, that weapons are weapons.

And I'll also point out that I never referenced chemical or biological weapons in my posts. One might want to argue directly with the President on that issue. I personally don't care if Iraq used Chemical and Bio-Weapons in the past at all.

Saddam is an openly hostile dictator, and defiant of the cease-fire agreement he had to sign after he invade a neighboring country. He's broken that agreement numerous times in efforts to rebuild his military - with special emphasis on rampant illegal importation of conventional arms and ammunition.

"before you gave him the green light to invade kuwait (look it up, eh?),"

- No, Lain should cite a credible source.

"800 tonnes of highly toxic depleted uranium dust you powdered his countryside with (check out the 27 fold increase of rare birth defects after the gulf war will ya?)"

- Again, citing a credible source on the uranium dust would be most helpful.

So, I count the 3 counts of very broad claims in here that are completely uncited, and one count of a source cited from a single individual that doesn't even provide a relevant point in the argument.

Hence the vehement conclusions of this essay doesn't look particularly supported at all, and there - are - some very important uncited claims therein.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:07:35 AM
IP: 66.30.158.19

"Dark Ages" is in breakdowns. Maybe Greg forgot about it because he isn't on that staff (as far as I know). ;) It won't be out until after "Gargoyles" I wouldn't think though.

As for "Timedancer", I would think it premature to make assumptions on what will and won't be in season 5, or even how many episodes it will take up. TGS doesn't have fixed-length seasons. It will take as long as it needs to cover all that it needs to.
Ed - [ed@steelclaw.org]
London, England
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 05:48:11 AM
IP: 213.187.48.43

And what about Brooklyn's untold adventure with Napoleon? Is it going to be left untold?
The Question
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 04:10:42 AM
IP: 67.233.55.51

Anonymous> Brooklyn says something about the Space-Spawn in the season 3 episode of Waystations indicating that he was there when the space-spawn invade. And seasons 3,4 and probably 5 of Timedancer with Apep and the 3rd Unseelie Court and everything will only cover around one decade of Brooklyn's timedancing so an extra season 6 is the only way you'll be able to cover the last 10 years of Brooklyn's travels.
Question
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 04:08:44 AM
IP: 67.233.55.51

SHE'S BAAAACK!

I said I would be back, didn't I? ^_^

How many years has it been since I last posted? 3? 4? I'm not sure anymore. I doubt any of you remember me. I was here for what I think was almost a year before leaving. But I have returned to the sacred grounds of Gargoyles fandom. I was surprised at how... dead a lot of the fandom was. *sigh* Almost every link is either broken or hasn't been updated since 1999. Ah well... I'm not going to be a super active poster, more of a lurker, making comments here and there. I'd also like to ask if there are anymore major Gargoyles pages that are still updating out there. I haven't been able to find any...

Ja ne!
Bengali - [delphu@netscape.net]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 04:07:01 AM
IP: 172.191.228.165

Originally Timedancer was supposed to last only 4 seasons, each covering ten years worth of Timedancing. It got pushed into 5. Timedancer isn't being canceled, it is wrapping up. Who said the space spawn invasion happens before Brooklyn's family leaves the future, anyway?
Anonymous
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 03:55:22 AM
IP: 65.69.64.233

Are you guys cancelling Timedancer to make room for Bad Guys? Is that it?
The Question
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 03:49:23 AM
IP: 67.233.55.51

Timedancer>Why is the 5th season the last season of Timedancer? Even if you have them defeat Apep early on you still have the third unseelie court and the space-spawn that Brooklyn mentioned in season 3 of gargoyles left to deal with. Furthermore what about the further adventures of Brooklyn and Family and the story of how they acquire Nudnik and how the twins grow up?
The Question
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 03:46:20 AM
IP: 67.233.55.51

Okay, one midterm down, one to go. Four essays in 80 minutes, I hope I wrote enough. I'll find out after the break. Thursday's midterm probably won't be so pleasant, even if it is open book.

If you're looking for a good laugh, go to google and search for "french military victories" and click on "I'm feeling lucky".

Ooh and I got a job offer from General Electric today, asking me to return. At the same pay rate. When they say that my pay is based on my academic achievements and GE-related work experience, they should probably consider that since last summer I have a degree, a higher GPA, research, and I was their intern of the friggin' year last year! Pay me more! Oh well, I'll probably be taking the Apple job anyway, but its nice to have a backup.

Lain: <<its OBVIOUS to EVERYONE, im sure, that you know absolutely everything>>: Not to me. Because I know everything.
<<you seem to have no problem fighting with and restoring them to power. why?>>: America first. The Northern Alliance doesn't want to blow up our buildings.
<<is the american media so incompitent that they cant keep track of simple facts that they themsleves ALREADY REPORTED CORRECTLY a scant 5 years ago, or are they deliberately lying to you? neither option makes them look very good, eh>>: The Ameican media has never looked good.
<>: Boy it sure sounds like it.
<<they cant legally import pencils>>: LOL
<<they have the same moustache and everything>>: People with mustaches are evil.

Bud Clare: <<Am I perverse for enjoying watching people yell at each other?>>: Nope. Its called schaudenfreude and its a very normal feeling 8-)

Lila: << look on the bright side>>: ::whistles::
<<Just look for a guy who's connected to his luggage by a TUBE>>: LOL good idea.
<<great soreness the next day, let me tell you>>: Were you a recent participant in the man show's entertainment?
<<Good luck on the midterm>>: Thanks.
<<Do you ever get a chance to show her up in the subject?>>: Yes, but I'm the only one who realizes it. Everyone else in discussion is a humanities major with an IQ smaller than my waist.
<<why arn't there more forms of contraception for MEN?>>: We have two choices: condom and vasectomy. The reason is that a burst of hormones (or depletion of them) doesn't change our sperm count. If it could, we'd be taking pills too...or at least the responsible ones would. Which begs the question, why are you injecting it?
<<Boobs attached to a living creature with will, desires, creativity... come on, now>>: Those are only beneficial if they're focused on ME 8-)
<<34D/+ cup girls in bikinis on trampolines?>>: Too much quantity. Breasts should not be larger than my head (the top one). In fact, they should fit entirely in my hands. This rules out women with back problems and women whose bouncies will be hanging at their navels in a few years 8-)

Godiva: <<what did I miss?>>: Everything.
<<Is this series still on, or did it get canned?>>: You know, there is a third option.

Attila: <<saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman.">>: LOL
<<Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French>>: HAHAHAHA. This is one of the funniest things I've ever read.

JacKaL: <<I'm sure I have a good idea>>: Living in hippyville yourself?
<<if it's soo bad where you live, why don't you go live in Iraq with Saddam?>>: She lives in Canada. Everyone is happy there.

Kaioto: <<Your even longer post was nothing more than unsupported propaganda and bigotry>>: Except for the support, quotes, and references.
<<It is customary to provide citation for supporting information that is not within the common access>>: You mean like the dates and magazines? I don't agree with lain, but clearly you can see that she supported most of her statements.
<<they'd cut your tongue out for being a woman and speaking>>: But women need their tongues for...
<<Pro-Dictatorship funding organizations playing "sugar daddy" to the Anti-U.S. movement. Who'd have thunk it, huh?>>: I'm not surprised, but on the other hand I can't trust fox news.
<>: Lain only did the first.

Dezi: <>: Good for you.
<>: That reason got lost a few weeks afterward.
<<It would be Paradise>>: Indeed.
<<5 min. until Smallville>>: Its a re-run this week. How about next week?

Gside: <<Hung a periodic table today>>: kinky.
<<Webster does recognize it, even if it doesn't prefer it>>: The word negates itself when used in that context.
<<if you'd provide funding and tissue samples, I'm sure he'd have a couple customs for you>>: I think I can handle that.
<<Real bouncies are controlled by women>>: I tell them what to do too.
<<now have an idea for the new cable channel we should have had for all these years>>: If they were naked, I'd buy.
<<sometimes you want to give up some quality for much more quantity>>: Never!
<<would have had to have been preformed to allow me to process oxygen>>: There's oxygen up there, I'm sure.
<<privacy article>>: That's messed up.

155. If I know of any heroes in the land, I will not under any circumstance kill their mentors, teachers, and/or best friends.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 03:24:53 AM
IP: 64.160.47.45

Greg, Head of Edits:<<The fourth season of "Pendragon" and the first season "Bad Guys" are next in line followed by the fourth season of "Gargoyles" and the fifth and final season of "Timedancer">>

::blinks:: Whaa!?

Winding things up so soon? :-(

I could be mistaken but I'm sure I remember a TGS staff post from some time last year that stated "Timedancer" was going to be SIX seasons.
Wouldn't that mean compressing the last half of Brooklyn and family's journey (17-20 years?) in to just one season?

Does that mean season 5 wil be a longer season, closer to 17 episodes instead of 13?

I can understand the practicallity in this, seeing as how recruitment has been on a decline for the last two years.
I admire the way you guys have been able to keep up with 4 separate spin-offs over the last 5 years. I'd hate to see the project end ala "Goliath Chronicles" (Yeah I know, Blasphemy)

Wait, I saw no mention of "Dark Ages". :?:

I'm just being a concerned TGS fan.

Leo
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 01:31:04 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Today- Doctors appointment. ::shudders:: Got a shot. Not a fan of shots. It's not the pain, its the needle. On a related note, why arn't there more forms of contraception for MEN? Hmm? That is all I have to say about THAT.
Horrors of morning were balanced by beautiful weather and three and a half mile run during which my lungs did not shrivel up, turn black, and die. Good air day. Love spring break.

Replies:
Dezi- I thought your honest emotional reaction to the war was very well stated, and somewhat refreshing. People allow their emotions to run high, and really exhibit them in this room, often flaming each other, which may or may not be an outlet for their feelings of fear, uncertainty, and helplessness. I think it would be very difficult to make fun of your poignant commentary. You put yourself out there, and it was one of the best-put reactions to the war I've yet seen posted. You grant that your opinions are no more than intuition, and that in itself absolves you from sounding like a pontificating ignoramus. <<Gut-wrenching, soul-screaming, make-me-want-to-puke bad. And that holds no scientific value whatsoever.>> True, but I agree with the sentiment. Kudos for saying it.

Lain- << if you are not against the debate itself but rather the manner in which it was unfolding, may we proceed in a more respectful fashion, or would you like us to drop the subject entirely?>> You've done this before, havn't you? :-P

Gside- <<Animated bouncies are told what to do by lonely men. Real bouncies are controlled by women.>> Yes, but doesn't that add to the allure? Boobs alone, fun. Boobs attached to a living creature with will, desires, creativity... come on, now! <<Actually, I think he's referencing the Python version of the joke.>> ::smacks self:: I should have known THAT reference, too! <<The Muppet Show was a great piece of TV.>> Smart man, good taste. <<Excellent, yes, but sometimes you want to give up some quality for much more quantity.>> 34D/+ cup girls in bikinis on trampolines? :-P

Signing off, hoping everyone copes well with the uncertainty we face. ::Huge hug for all, even the sketchy ones:: ;-)

Lila
L.A., California
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 01:26:14 AM
IP: 134.173.121.83

Cool! Thanks Gside!
Dezi
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:48:35 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

JacKal:<their head is implanted to far in their ass to notice it.> I _would_ like to point out that my head is, in fact, not up my a$$ and if it was, you all would have probably heard of some sort of miracle life saving operation that would have had to have been preformed to allow me to process oxygen, as I would have somewhat resembled a human donut.
<We were attacked by terrorists, remember that?> Really, I thought that was just the Incredible Hulk getting really mad. Wow. So THAT'S what all that fuss on the coast was about. /Sarcasm.

And now a few links:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030318_1784.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44591-2003Mar18.html
http://www.sundayherald.com/32159
http://www.msnbc.com/news/886806.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44591-2003Mar18.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-610213,00.html <-This one is kinda funny.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=386524
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2842315.stm
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/5354958.htm

Ok that's enough....for now... :)
Dezi - [Heh, here's a good link about privacy, I guess.]
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:46:33 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

Hung a periodic table today. Unfortunately, it was stiffer than the old one, so it won't roll up.

Imzadi> <<THIS IS NOT A WORD. The word is regardless>>: Actually, Webster does recognize it, even if it doesn't prefer it.
<<Let me know, because I've got a request list>>: I believe he was only planning on doing himself, but if you'd provide funding and tissue samples, I'm sure he'd have a couple customs for you.
<>: Animated bouncies are told what to do by lonely men. Real bouncies are controlled by women.
<<It is when they're on trampolines>>: Yes, but they're not on the trampolines constantly. And I now have an idea for the new cable channel we should have had for all these years.
<<that doesn't mean it'll be an effective hammer>>: It'll be effective, just maybe not efficient.

Lila> <<unless that's an obscure reference to the Muppophones on the original Muppet show>>: Actually, I think he's referencing the Python version of the joke.
<<Why do I know that?>>: The Muppet Show was a great piece of TV.
<<Women+bikinis+trampoline=excellent bounce-age>>: Excellent, yes, but sometimes you want to give up some quality for much more quantity.
<<I'm still gonna sleep, though>>: Excellent.
<<Can't be like that chick from The Ring>>: If it will help you sleep.
<<Don't be naughty>>: But it's fun being naughty.
<<Gside is miiiiiiiiiiiles away>>: Evil laugh.

Godiva> <<what did I miss?>>: Same old same old.

Dezi> <<Check out anime-kraze>>: Kaizoku Fansubs. ANBU-AonE. Baka-MX. Or baka-updates.com for lists from many fansub groups.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:22:46 PM
IP: 68.38.240.227

::puts admin badge back on::

JACKAL> You have the right to your opinion, but name calling like that is completely inappropriate and I will not have it in my CR. One more post like that, and I'm banning you. You have had the only warning I intend to give.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:43:54 PM
IP: 216.179.1.93

Attention all "Gargoyles" fans.

We are currently looking to recruit new editors for "The Gargoyles Saga". For those of you who don't know, TGS is a group based fanfiction team which for the past several years has been continuing to write fanfic based on "Gargoyles" and the staff's interpretation of Greg Weisman's Master Plan for the series.

Right now we have several series in development. The fourth season of "Pendragon" and the first season "Bad Guys" are next in line followed by the fourth season of "Gargoyles" and the fifth and final season of "Timedancer".

Any editors should of course have a firm grasp on the English language, and some familiarity with the TGS Universe. Don't worry about the latter if you feel it's not a strong point, as there will be plenty of oppurtunities to familiarize yourself with it.

All applicants should e-mail me at madoc55@yahoo.com

Thank you, and good luck.

Greg Bishansky, Head of Edits
Greg Bishansky - [madoc55@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:34:14 PM
IP: 216.179.1.93

WoW, that's the 1st time I've done that.
Hey that previous post is MINE!!!!!!
JacKaL
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:30:14 PM
IP: 172.151.138.101

Oh great. Greg puts on his Admin. Badge, while also expressing his support for the liberal terrorist supporter! (Lain)

Dezi <>
Sure you can! Just make sure there is as much anit-Saddam statements as there is anti-Bush...
<>
Yeah, you'd think, but more people support Saddam without even knowing it b/c their head is implanted to far in their ass to notice it.
<< 9/11. Remember that?>>
Horrible memory still haunts me. That's why we are in this position now. We were attacked by terrorists, remember that?

Hey everyone, don't confuse me with a hardcore supporter of Bush, I AM NOT. But taking down Saddam IS the right thing to do.
Someone else in the CR said the something similar to that, but I don't remember who that was at the moment.

War oil!! Boo-f**king-Hoo! Let me ask this and get an INTELLIGENT response.
In regard to "War for Oil"...
What is our objective?

ANYWAY, there's a new Buffy next week, I'm happy! LoL
Anonymous
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:29:05 PM
IP: 172.151.138.101

Yep, I'm posting today.

About the war, some facts:

France and Russia (probably Germany too) have economic reasons for NOT wanting to go to war with Iraq. The current president has a personal reason for going to war with Iraq. The UN has passed resolution after resolution asking Saddam Hussein to disarm.

Some opinions:

This conflict will show that in fact, the UN is a rather ineffectual governing body, that should be scrapped. IMO, the only person of the UN is to make it easier to show support or opposition ot a given war. The UN didn't stop the cold war, Mutually Assured Destruction did. We want to keep the number of countries involved in MAD down to a minimum. Has anyone considered the larger implications? Afganistan is going to become a democracy. When/if we win the war, Iraq will become a democracy. Iran will be sandwitched between, which may result in Iran's government being overthrown and a democracy established there.

I heard a presentation on Monday about the price of oil effects the economy. In summary, lowering the price of oil stimulates the economy and raising the price of oil slows down the economy.

If we rushed through the war and rushed to make it where we could buy Iraqi oil on the world market, it might bring down oil prices just in time for the next election. All the same, the world's economy is tied to a single product and that is a problem. Increasing fuel efficiency is NOT the long term solution to the problem. How long before it is affordable for the average consumer to buy solar powered vehicles? Electric? Other fuel sources?

Godivia - <What's up with the link to Bad Guys? I've clicked it and it gives me this--->HTTP 404 - File not
found Internet Explorer. Is this series still on, or did it get canned?> Which pages is that the bad link on? I just tried the link and it works.

I just located another actor from the Pretender series, guest starring on JAG. So far, I've spotted 3 of them. Jard, Miss Parker, and Mr Lylie. Anybody seen Angelo, Mr Parker, Mr Reins, or Broots around?

My global environment of business class is pro-war. I'm sure if it looked at specifics, I could find why that is.

In other news, my spring break is next week. Hopefully, I'll finish all work on the tgs website then.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:14:58 PM
IP: 204.94.193.18

LAIN> Fine, fine. Just as long as you both play nice. I mean you as well Kai.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 09:31:52 PM
IP: 216.179.1.93

greg>> if you are not against the debate itself but rather the manner in which it was unfolding, may we proceed in a more respectful fashion, or would you like us to drop the subject entirely?

either is fine with me, ive said what i wanted to say, even though nobody seems to have had their eyes open for it...
lain
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 09:04:58 PM
IP: 65.93.72.36

Hi. I'm back. Haven't been avoiding anything, just been really busy. Today is my boyfriend's 21st birthday. I took him to Red Lobster so we could have dinner and he could order his first (legal) alcholic drink. He got a strawberry margarita. He wanted a drink called a Bahama Mama because it had rum, but he didn't want to have to say it out loud to order it. Hee hee. I drank some of the margarita too. I am already 21 but haven't drank anything. Not really into that. So now I got that out of the way. At least it wasn't some week long binge.

Regarding the whole war crap. I'm not going to sit here and list fact after fact, stat after stat. It won't make any difference to anything anyway. Facts are already out there for anyone to pick up, from either side of an issue. Just pick the facts that support your side (which ever side) and you're all set.
I also know I'm gonna catch a load of crap for this too, but anyway. Why am I opposed to this war? It feels bad. Totally bad. Gut-wrenching, soul-screaming, make-me-want-to-puke bad. And that holds no scientific value whatsoever. But then, the idea of right vs. wrong (morally and such) holds no scientific value either. It's all completely subjective. I trust my sense of right/wrong as a good measure of how to view things. If I can, and am not blinded by anger or something else that would occur suddenly, I _try_ to be objective. But if all else fails, if something feels wrong, I don't do it. If going down some alley way feels wrong, I don't go there. Stealing things feels wrong to me, so I don't do it. Regardless of any legal penalty. It is also in that feeling that tells you for no particular reason suddenly that you shouldn't turn down that road, but go a different way. The you find out later that there was a major accident on that road and you would have been in it. Such feelings have yet to let me down.
My stance on this war- It is bad. All I know is it is bad deep down in my insides. That is all I need to know. If I want, I can always go find facts to "support" it later. My insides tell me that this is all being fought over the wrong reasons. My insides, my compass and intuition are all very upset right now, too, because no matter how much they yell at my brain right now, my brain tells them that, well, there's not much just me could do about any of this anyway. Yeah sure, I could over throw a country and make myself a world power. But I have too much to deal with right now. Maybe some day as a hobby. :)

Ok-I'll set the net up here to catch the crap-- you may proceed with the pot-shots now.--

It doesn't help much that we're playing the waiting game with my dad. He hasn't gone yet (I think he was supposed to be with the group that might have gone to Turkey, but as Turkey held out, Dad got to stick around.) His best friend, Emmanuel did though, which means it is a mere matter of time before Dad does, as their groups (or departments or whatever) work closely together.
In the meantime, the waiting game sucks. It's like the twenty year waiting game before a state execution, all the appeals process. My insides tell me this whole thing is a bad idea, but my brain wants it to hurry up and get over with-which ever way it ends up going-just so I won't have to think about it anymore. I don't want it to happen, and if I was in a power position, I would do anything I could to stop it. As for my dad, its his job, he chose it and must take his orders. They sign his checks.
Ok I think thats it, time for replies

JacKal:<more anti-Bush comments and STILL no one seems to be against Saddam Hussein> I can be anti-Bush and still be Anti-Saddam. They're both idiots and a scourge to the world. I just figured since Saddam is a well-known nut that being Anti-Saddam is a given. Maybe others think that as well. This issue isn't just black and white, 'if you're not with us-your with them' its much much to complicated for that.
I also think that taking out Iraq won't solve the original problem/reason we're in this in the first place: Locate and destroy the guys that did 9/11. Remember that? I think that reason has gotten lost in the shuffle. Bombing Baghdad won't make Osama think twice about hitting us again. Hey, for all we know, we're just buying time for him. And, as he is a maniac also, how would we ever know what he would do next.

Josh:<In typical Iraqi fashion, they are giving Bush the same amount of time to get out of America 8-) > Ahhhh. It would be Paradise! :)

Bud-Clare:<*L* Everyone I tell about it has a list of people that they want to add. > Can I add my brother?

Greg: Thank you, good point. Lila and Lain and Bud-Clare too.

Firestorm:<Coffee Oreo's > Another of LM's "cravings"?

Attilla:<I'll remember not to harrass you again> Good cat. *pats the kitty and throws a mouse with a little bell*

Warpmind:<All... available... Inuyashas... Waiting... for... 101> Actually up to 103 now. Check out anime-kraze.net They do a lot of fansubs and are a good measure of when things will be available on Kazaa.

Ok 5 min. until Smallville.

Oh, yeah, and I think that I'll stay out of any further war arguements for now. I don't want to think about it. I'll just yell at the computer screen like I do at the TV and the gas pumps. 8-)

***********************************************************
"Baby, instant soup doesn't really grab me. Today I need something more, some stuff more substantial. A can of beans, some black-eyed peas, some Nescafe and ice, a candy bar, a falling star, or a reading from Dr. Suess."
***********************************************************
later
Dezi
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 08:55:27 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

One more post.

*** Puts on admin badge ***

Kai and lain, as CR admin, I'm going to have to ask you two to take it to e-mail or IM also. Not that it isn't fun for me to watch this, and not that I'm against debate. But you two got a little too personal there.

*** takes off admin badge ***

Just for the record Kai, lain provided several citations. I'd look at her post again.

Thank you, that will be all.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 08:52:50 PM
IP: 216.179.1.93

LILA> Yes, I have. Why do you think I picked her? ;)
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 08:47:09 PM
IP: 216.179.1.93

Greg- How would THAT solve the single-sex issue? Have you SEEN Janet Reno???
Lila
LA
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 08:27:43 PM
IP: 134.173.121.83

JOSH> Thanks. Come to think of it. Six or seven guys alone together on a rocket is kinda gay. And as far as we know, all those huys are hetero.... though from what I hear, one of Saddam's sons swings both ways. But I figure let's throw a woman into the mix. I say we put Janet Reno in the rocket also ;)
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 08:09:52 PM
IP: 216.179.1.93

And in other news, I can't count. 2nd sentence.

You'd think being an engineer would learn me these things right fast.
Josh
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 07:59:33 PM
IP: 64.160.47.45

Greg: Great idea, but I think you should remove the word "president" from that first sentence. 8-)
Josh
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 07:58:44 PM
IP: 64.160.47.45

To take Bud-Clare's idea a little further. When this is all over we should just take Saddam and his two sons, Bush, Cheney and the French President, put them all in a rocket and fire it into the center of the sun.

And in the months and years it takes for the rocket to get to the sun, we have cameras on board the rocket and we get a new reality show. Hmm, Blair might be losing his job soon, let's send him too ;)
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 07:57:53 PM
IP: 216.179.1.93

Aaaand, now for something completely different:

http://www.tenament.com/stephenrs/artwerks/

Yes, my website is back up again. Pheer me. ^_^

Actually I do have opinions on the War, but in all honesty I don't voice them because I personally am scared spitless at the thought of if spilling over to engulf the entire planet... my one hope is that if War starts, that it ends as quickly as possble, with all of our loved ones coming home safely.

Maintain and Check Six, all.

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL, USA
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:58:14 AM
IP: 65.35.132.55

"My views on these international issues have shown trend-lines of steep politicial partisanship, Nationalism, or Anti-Islamic prejudice (heck, Serbia's entire campaign had a center-piece around wiping out the Moslem population along with chasing off the Albanians); and I resent any implications otherwise."

I probably should have put the above line in <sarcasm> </sarcasm> tags, just to stay out of trouble.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:55:25 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Attila > You are, of course, correct.

I take it far too personally when people call me out by name, ignore all my arguments, and engage in pettty villification completely tangent to the argument at hand. I think it is the debate tactic that offends me far more than the content. Of course, I then feel the overwhelming temptation to adopt such tactics just to show how easy, pointless, and contemptuous they really are.

They should not be employed by myself or others, regardless of provocation in a preemptive or retributive fashion, and do a disservice to the comment room. I apologize for taking such a measure.

For the record, I'm not taking my stance because I believe in some sort of Nationalistic superiority (though I do love my country, and I'm proud of many moments in its brief history and feel shame about its many failures). I'm taking my stance on the issue because I believe it is the best combination of the practical and moral that can be implemented at this time, and I find the arguments to the contrary either unfounded, unsupported, or unable to propose an acceptable alternative.

I didn't gripe when France moved into Africa without UN approval a few months ago; I didn't gripe when Clinton attacked Serbia without going to the UN; I'm not happy with the status quo in Israel or South / Central America or sub-Saharan Africa; and I still don't have an opinion on Russia's issues with its outskirt territories attempting to set up Islamic states. My views on these international issues have shown trend-lines of steep politicial partisanship, Nationalism, or Anti-Islamic prejudice (heck, Serbia's entire campaign had a center-piece around wiping out the Moslem population along with chasing off the Albanians); and I resent any implications otherwise.

I'm staunchly Anti-Terrorism and Anti-Totalitarian and steeply Pro-Humanitarian and Pro-Self Preservation (and at least I'm honest about the last one).
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:47:54 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Now, Kaioto, I am more inclined to agree with you and yes, I want Sadaam's head on a stick. Even when I was a little kitten, I felt the elder Bush wimped out when he spared Sadaam--thanks a lot, UN.

But to both you and Lain--Let's take it to e-mail. There is no need to cause any sort of flame war like this.

But frankly there has too much virtriol in this CR, and I'm disapointed to see the personal nature of the comments from both of you. Now go make up and have some Newfie sex :p

Jackal> I am very partial to David Horowitz, but I disgaree with his view of the anti-war crowd being exclusively anti-Bush, though yes, placards with Sadaam's face or Palestinian flags do not sit well with me. Neither do signs saying it is not our business that Sadaam kills his people, and anyone with a sign saying "Peace in Our Time" loses all credibility with me.

I do find it suspicious that there was a lack of protest over Clinton's bombing of Baghdad in 98, though I saw some around the Baron's campus (where else). I do applaud that Kerry and Dean both stated they will back the troops, which is only fitting, though some guy named Ted Rall suggested we wrap up our flags for the soldiers, because it woudl appear to be endorsing the war. My little Baron slave will Fisk him for that.

Greg X> Another of Osama's lieutenants got nabbed, so I doubt he's too happy. Even Arafat has asked him not to make him a reason for his jihad. Of ocurse Arafat trie sto look good as he has his puppet Abu Mazeen become Chairman of the PA. Of course, let us not forget Mazeen is a Holocaust denier, so he doesn't need too much scrutiny there. May a thousand sand fleas nest in the beards of Osama, Arafat, and Mazeen.

Bud-Clare> I hope my obnoxious little slave isn't one of the closed minded war supporters. I may appear so, but I'm a bllodthirsty, evil warlord cat and frogbasher of the third circle :)

Godiva> meow. ::Goes off to harass Godiva:: Toodles

ghost of Reverend Attila
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:19:47 AM
IP: 136.216.75.2

In related news the "informed" so-called "Anti-War" movement overlooks where its financial (and rhetorical) backing is coming from. Pro-Dictatorship funding organizations playing "sugar daddy" to the Anti-U.S. movement. Who'd have thunk it, huh?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81314,00.html

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:48:29 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Lain > Blah Blah Blah. What a pathetic, hate-filled, bigotry riddled exercise in utter hypocrisy. My "wind-bagginess" was a thorough consideration of cause, effect, and morality. Your even longer post was nothing more than unsupported propaganda and bigotry, paying absolutely no heed to the points of the other side except to engage in the infantile practice of "straw man" arguments. Your uncited "facts" were quite charming. It is customary to provide citation for supporting information that is not within the common access (such as basic news reporting, social research, and interviews with victims which relate the oppressive conditions in Saddam's Iraq).

You could try and take your hate and bigotry somewhere else, like maybe any of the countries you're trying to defend. Wait, they'd cut your tongue out for being a woman and speaking. Sorry.

A prime example of your inability to make a relevant point while choking on your own ignorant drivel.

For instance, the "bestest buddy" comment is a prime example of not thinking, as anyone who examines the issue would realize Saddam was only propped up as an alternative to a Soviet dictator. Lesser of two evils and all.

The "piece of the action" point was a shining example of oversight, either through ignorance or choice, in the fact that Hussein is not tractable or trustworthy in any way, shape, or form - so why would a sane nation do business with him? Never mind the fact that you never acknowledge that France and Russia are turning a blind eye for money and self-interest, not protesting war against Iraq because it is immoral.

The "why not other dictatorships" argument has already been addressed. We can't fix all of them, so we're dealing with the most well-funded, violent, and intractable ones.

And the "Osama's thugs" point cost you all your remaining credibility. I've never refered to Saddam supporting Al-Qaede. He supports other terrorists like Hamas. Of course, I'm sure Lain has some wonderfully vacuous relativist nonsense about how we can't oppose Hamas either, since we all know their just patriots fighting the vast Zionist Conspiracy (TM).

Of course, we could always do the "just" thing and simply let all the Israeli Jews be murdered.

No matter how dirty America's hands have gotten in the course of dealing with the Nazis and the Soviets (to the benefit of a lot more nations than itself), it doesn't mean they are incapable of taking the correct course of action in anything (which is Lain's senseless argument in a nutshell).

Removing Saddam is the correct course of action here.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:27:38 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Hello, Terrorism! It's been awhile, how have you been?!

And it happens yet again, more anti-Bush comments and STILL no one seems to be against Saddam Hussein. Do we have blinders on people?

<<How do you know that those homes belonged to terrorists?>>
Well hell, that's simple. How do you know those homes didn't? It's the front lines of war, there is collateral damage and then there's not.

Josh <<You have no idea the hell I've been through living here>>
I'm sure I have a good idea!

RE: Animated boobs - Now real boobs are great in general, but there's something about animated ones that are just soo.... special!

<<and you say its not about oil>>
Of course it's about oil. But that's NOT the only motive. Allow me to piss everyone off right here -
Being in control of a shit load of oil will help the American economy.
And people bitch about the war being for oil...
What, you don't use it?! Get on your f**king bike and ride everywhere if you really want somthing to bitch about and not sound like a hypocrite!

Lain, you supporter of terrorism, you! You come to the defense of the Taliban and Saddam? Well hey, if it's soo bad where you live, why don't you go live in Iraq with Saddam? Or hey, go help the Taliban. There's still a few guns fights going on in Afghanistan.

Bud-Clare <<Am I perverse for enjoying watching people yell at each other>>
Nah, it just means your human.

Just keep in mind people, that Saddam could end all this... but he won't. So, it's his fault. All he had to do is do what he said he was gonna do 12 years ago.
JacKaL
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 09:41:08 AM
IP: 152.163.189.68

Now, for a lesson in France's Military History, a subject always good for a laugh:

Currently making the rounds in the military community: The Complete Military History of France
- Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

- Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."

-Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

-The Dutch War - Tied

-War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

-War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

-World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador, fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage." -Donald Rumsfeld

Yes, I'm a bad kitty, but it's fun ::purrs in Mooncat's lap::
ghost of Reverend Attila
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 07:53:01 AM
IP: 136.216.75.2

Hey, hey! I'm back! I kinda took an unexpected vacation from here. So what did I miss?

Oh yeah, I have a question..What's up with the link to Bad Guys? I've clicked it and it gives me this--->HTTP 404 - File not found Internet Explorer. Is this series still on, or did it get canned?

Laters, gators!

Godiva - [reneeprater@adelphia.net]
Townsville, Cartoon Network, USA
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 04:42:02 AM
IP: 24.52.251.149

So much anger. ::shakes head:: I'll say this: War is awful. Death is awful. Both cause great suffering and grief, and I ache that people are going to have to experience one or the other, or both for themselves, or their loved ones in the near future. Death happens to all of us, though, and look on the bright side! ::Said through teeth grinding together painfully:: At least it'll get rid of some of the overpopulation, eh? I've yet to find a conclusion to an the thesis that humans are the only species that exterminates its own kind systematically... but that's a much less heated debate, currently.
On a lighter note, I was blessed with a glorious day of warmth and sunshine, during which I cruised the PCH with a couple buddies. No traffic, just salt air, fun, and sun. Joy.

Replies:
Niamhgold-::sympathetic hug:: Don't worry, if it is, you probably won't be here to know about it. Er... that was supposed to be comforting...

Fire Storm- <<Why not? A hammer is a guaranteed way to open a mouse! (Or to play a series of mice that are trained to squeak at a precise note)>> Shame on you... unless that's an obscure reference to the Muppophones on the original Muppet show... (Why do I know that?)

Greg B- <<Well, say hello to more terrorism. Where ever he is, Osama bin Laden is a happy man. He's got the perfect vehicle to recruit more people into al Qaeda to commit acts of terror against us. He probably wants this more than Bush does. He'll be the one to benefit the most.>> Robin Williams put it best, I think. "So, the word is we're sending CIA in to assasinate Bin Laden. He's a six foot five arab on dialysis... how hard can it BE to find him? Just look for a guy who's connected to his luggage by a TUBE!" I don't pass judgement, I just report other peoples quotes... ::bites tongue, winks anyway::

Bud-Clare: <<I'm sorry. I'll go punish myself now.>> ;-) Oh, say no MORE! Nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat. << The fact that the president is an idiot is tossing gasoline on the flames, but the primary motivation is most likely fear (although deftly disguised as anger).>> I'm still hoping without much faith that it's all a cover up ruse for some covert operation that smarter people have planned, using the puppetman as a decoy... << Everyone I tell about it has a list of people that they want to add.>> At last the truth comes out... people have LISTS. When you set your plan in action... let's collaborate, hmm?

Gside-<<Yes, but it isn't constant bouncing>> Women+bikinis+trampoline=excellent bounce-age, my friend. And great soreness the next day, let me tell you... << It is nothing to be bothered by. Just go to sleep, and all shall be well>> Deeeeeeply troubled. I'm still gonna sleep, though. Can't be like that chick from The Ring... <<May I watch?>> Telekinetic WHOOPAH. Don't be naughty. ;-P

Josh- <<Fortunately, the midterm is tomorrow and there is no final so I won't have to listen to her anymore.>> Good luck on the midterm. Do you ever get a chance to show her up in the subject? That might be satisfying.

Oh, and a belated "Happy St. Patricks Day" to everyone...
I wish I'd known it was today... I didn't keep track, and have suffered the bruises. Dangit... At last I go to bed... safe knowing Gside is miiiiiiiiiiiles away... ::looks over shoulder and retires::
Lila
Los Angeles
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 04:19:52 AM
IP: 134.173.121.83

Am I perverse for enjoying watching people yell at each other? ;)
Bud-Clare
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 03:54:24 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

oh baby! i think my dander has hit an all-time high..

kaioto>> is there any POSSIBLE way that you might even ENTERTAIN the notion of trying to be even a TEENSY bit less offensive and windbaggily? i mean, its OBVIOUS to EVERYONE, im sure, that you know absolutely everything.. :P

your "blood for oil nonsense" post was particularly charming.. i thought it interesting how angry you are that france and russia might be profiting on the suffering of oppressed people while you seem to gloss right over all the parts where you do EXACTLY THE SAME THING. israel much? oo.. how bout central america? guatemala? are you saying that the real reason youre angry with france and russia is because youre not getting a piece of the action? if youre going to play the saint, concerned about the poor, innocent, helpless oppressed people being terrorized by a meglomaniacal dictator (that you installed before deciding to systematically f!ck him over) then how about you stop doing the same thing over again?

by most accounts of the people who lived under them, the "northern alliance" leaders in afganistan had a worse record of brutality, genocide and random thuggery than everybodys favourite pinata (aka the taliban), yet you seem to have no problem fighting with and restoring them to power. why? i cant tell you if the people in afganistan are going to be much better off under northern alliance rule.. its too soon to tell.. but at the very least, no justice has been served. if not justice, then what? you might want to check into the proposed pipeline from the oil fields of tengiz (fairly recently discovered and with lots of american companies in the mix)... the optimum route for which just (in some bizzare coincidence of course) happens to run STRAIGHT through afganistan.. that would be good fodder for the conspiracy theorist, i suppose, except for the fact that bush had already been planning an assault on afganistan before the tragedy of 9/11. if nothing else, its very interesting, dont you think? and you say its not about oil..

back to iraq, though. although your endless wisdom and rapier wit dazzle us all, you seem to have some facts crossed. let me supply you with some references, since you always claim to like your facts substantiated..

during the weapons inspectors, iraq was reportedly not co-operating to the fullness of its potential. i dont spose you really wondered why, did you? you just thought that he was being a dictatorial brat - not that perhaps he might have a good reason? reports of the misuse of the inspectors for spying were made in early 1999 by some of the leading US newspapers, sourced to US and UN officials. i guess nobody really pays any attention to that sort of stuff though.. anyways, these papers reported as fact that "american spies had worked undercover on teams of united nations arms inspectors" (ny times, 1/7/99) in order to "eavesdrop on the iraqi military without the knowledge of the UN agency" (washington post, 3/2/99). might that qualify as a reason for iraq to "kick the inspectors out?" i would think so - but wait!!! *gasp* oh my! reading news reports from the *actual time-period* they were "kicked out" seems to tell a different story.. they say things like "butler ordered his inspectors to evacuate baghdad, in anticipation of a military attack, on tuesday night" (washington post, 12/18/98). this makes it sound disturbingly as if the inspectors.. left on their own?

say it aint so!

naturally, the post is not alone. The ny times made the same mistake seven times (1/8/99, 4/16/99, 8/20/99, 10/28/99, 11/18/99, 12/17/99, 2/1/00) before finally printing a correction on february 2, 2000. the chicago tribune (12/18/99), boston globe (10/21/99), washington times (11/5/99), AP (12/2/99), newsweek (8/30/99), USA today (12/9/99), and NBC news (12/19/99) have all made the same error. so, really, its not your fault. heres the real question: is the american media so incompitent that they cant keep track of simple facts that they themsleves ALREADY REPORTED CORRECTLY a scant 5 years ago, or are they deliberately lying to you? neither option makes them look very good, eh?

oh, but saddam is a murderous tyrant who regularly dallies with weapons of mass destruction! why, hes the "dictator who is assembling the world's most dangerous weapons and has already used them on whole villages, leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind or disfigured" g w bush (as quoted in the ny times 31/01/03. my god, hes worse than hitler! *crosses self*

...ooo, wait a bit. it seems that when you actually try to pin down all those times chemical weapons were "regularly" used against civilians, theres a depressing lack of atrocities. really, about all we have are a handful of gas attacks during the iran-iraq war, the most famous of which was carried out in the kurdish town of Halabjah. And in that case, it seems that our mustached friend wasnt even trying to get the kurds, or so claims stephen c. pelletiere, the CIAs senior political analyst on iraq during the 1980s:

"iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill iranians who had seized the town ... the kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. but they were not iraqs main target..." -ny times, (1/31/03)

well, maybe not! but those civilians are still dead, and their blood is still on saddam's murderous hands! that evil bastard gassed an entire villiage to death! right? ooor maybe NOT! and i continue to quote:

"the former CIA official revealed that immediately after the battle the US. defense intelligence agency investigated and produced a classified report that said it was iranian gas that killed the kurds ... the condition of the dead kurds bodies however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent — that is, a cyanide-based gas — which iran was known to use. the iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time."

...so according to the latest news to leak out of the american state department, everyone knows it was iran, not iraq who was responsible for the majority of the deaths from chemical attack.. but of course, why let facts get in the way of some juicy rhetoric?

...And now, boys and girls, it's time for another installment of GUNJACK'S GUNNERY! Today's show: "Chemical Weapons", or, "Let's Have a Gas!"

For those of you who came in late, a small review.

Mustard gas, the only type Saddam ever seems to have used, is a blistering agent developed and used by all sides (including the US) during world war I. Unprotected contact may cause:
- blistering of the skin
- blindness (which may be temporary or permanent, depending on severity of exposure) upon contact with the eyes
- Vomiting, and severe pain as the gas strips away the mucus layers of the bronchial tubes
- Internal and external bleeding
- In some cases, death (in WWI, britian lost roughly 1 out of every 4 soldiers exposed to the gas)

Mmmm, pretty nasty stuff! After all, contact with skin causes "blistering"! OOOoooooooo!

Ever heard of white phosphorus? American troops usually call it WP or "willie pete". It's a white liquid that burns at 5000 degrees or so upon contact with oxygen. The US army loads it into artillary rounds, mortar shells, hand grenades, and aerial bombs. Upon impact, a WP warhead bursts, scattering burning chunks of phosphorus in a wide radius. To quote the Army's manual on the subject: "Fragments of melted particles of the burning substance may become embedded in the skin of persons close to a bursting projectile, producing burns which are multiple, deep and variable in size." ...For those of you who're slow on the uptake, that means that if it gets on your skin, it will rapidly burn a hole clean through your body. The usual method of removal involves cutting the phosphorus out with a knife, along with whatever skin it happens to be sizzlin' away at.
White Phosphorus is usually used to designate targets for artillary or airstrikes (the white smoke it produces makes a dandy aiming point), but it has commonly been used by American forces against enemy personel since World War II.

I don't mean to imply that American troops are inhuman monsters; I'm just trying to provide a little perspective here. According to some international treaties, TEAR GAS is classified as a chemical weapon. Weapons are weapons, and they should be assessed based on what they actually DO, not by what category they land in.

Compared to nerve agents like Sarin or VX, mustard gas is cotton candy. Nerve agents are the true chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction, and Saddam has never used them.

***We now return you to Lain's post, now in progress***

so, kaioto, where does that leave us? you have a murderous dictator no more murderous than many of your countries close allies. he hates you. have i mentioned that he used to be your bestest buddy? that was back before you sold him out after the cold war (back when he was doing scary commie things like.. providing free medicine and education.. dangerous stuff) by selling arms behind his back to the people trying to kill him (iran.. also not nice people), before you gave him the green light to invade kuwait (look it up, eh?), bombed his country back to the stone age, and then slapped so many sanctions on his nation that they cant legally import pencils. not mentioning the pleasent icing formed by the 800 tonnes of highly toxic depleted uranium dust you powdered his countryside with (check out the 27 fold increase of rare birth defects after the gulf war will ya?)
your going to depose him before he supplies weapons of mass destruction to osamas thugs. funny, didnt i hear somewhere that osama and co have tried repeatedly to kill him? but yes, im sure you can convince yourself that this war is equally as justified as WWII.. i mean.. they have the same moustache and everything!

if you want to stop terrorism.. have you ever thought that you should stop spoonfeeding the psychos their rhetoric? or would that upset the delicate american ratio of balls to brains? o.O
lain "we are not dealing with peaceful men" iwakura and gunjack "GO CRAZY MAN!!!" valentine
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 02:57:25 AM
IP: 65.93.72.165

I'm starting to get really annoyed with my TA for my Renaissance Engineers class. She makes it increasingly obvious every day that she doesn't know ANYTHING. Fortunately, the midterm is tomorrow and there is no final so I won't have to listen to her anymore.

Lila: <<Belated bravos on all your good news>>: Thank you.
<<Geeks go to GYMS?>>: This one does.
<<Ah, the bliss of spring break>>: I hate you. 3 more days...

JacKaL: <<It’s more of a hate Republicans>>: That's okay, we hate them back.
<<the bulldozer didn't stop at all>>: GOOD!
<<She made the choice to end her life for terrorists. People need to wake up and realize this is serious shit that's going on>>: Its so nice to hear someone with a brain again. You have no idea the hell I've been through living here.

Kaioto: <<irregardless>>: THIS IS NOT A WORD. The word is regardless.
<<Saddam has absolutely no intention of paying you back any of that $25 billion you loaned him, sucker>>: LOL.
<<Better to take it one land-war at a time whenever possible>>: But we're not supposed to get involved in land wars in Asia.
<< religious zealots who like to stone people that disagree with them>>: People who disagree with me like to get stoned, is that close enough?
<<and isn't going to eat your babies>>: what about Fire Storm?

Fire Storm: <<he hasn't set a deadline>>: In typical Iraqi fashion, they are giving Bush the same amount of time to get out of America 8-)
<<really green) cheddar in my fridge. Does it count?>>: Not the green ones.
<<when I am ready, I shall commence the cloning>>: Let me know, because I've got a request list.
<<my system crashes so often anyway, IE doesn't add any more problems>>: There's a hole in that logic large enough for me to fly a C-5 through.
<<You have BROADBAND! You are SINGLE! Why don't you have more?>>: I also have classes. And homework. And research. And sometimes a job.
<<Bad plug dude. Bad plug>>: Sorry, forced by habit.
<<Animated boobs can be more fun, though>>: I doubt it.

Bud Clare: <<I'll go punish myself now>>: You'll need a spanking. And then the oral sex. Deja vu.
<<do you know that those homes belonged to terrorists?>>: All the more reason to laugh at the idiot who died for it.

Gside: <<it isn't constant bouncing>>: It is when they're on trampolines.
<<anything can be used as a hammer>>: Sure, but that doesn't mean it'll be an effective hammer.

154. I will instruct my Legions of Terror in proper search techniques. In particular, if they are searching for escapees and someone shouts, "Quick! They went that way!", they must first ascertain the identity of this helpful informant before dashing off in hot pursuit.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 02:42:40 AM
IP: 64.165.203.31

Imzadi> <<Third time is a charm?>>: Something along those lines.
<<On second thought>>: Evil laugh.
<<Watch the Man Show. More realistic boobies>>: Yes, but it isn't constant bouncing.
<<True, but it was only there for a few hours>>: That's a new one on me.
<<And that's the trouble>>: Evil laugh, part two.
Lila> <<And they think you're abnormal... silly fools>>: But my abnormalities start much later than that.
<>: It is nothing to be bothered by. Just go to sleep, and all shall be well.

Fire Storm> <<That sounds absolutely artery clogging! (gotta try it)>>: I've only made it once so far, and didn't get a chance to truly use it until it had already solidified a bit. Though my lead in taste testing was very good.
<>: The green stuff, no, but if you cut it off, you might get a good half block left. Oh, and I forgot to mention that I added a bit of mustard powder at the with the flour in the white sauce.
<<you accept this declaration of shenanigans? Let me get my broom>>: Only if I can get my lax stick (I played defence).
<<A lot of dead links>>: Those types of places don't last too long on average.
<<Most of what I saw so far wasn't too bad yet>>: Have you seen the futanari link repository? Or one of the human body remodeling (e.g. a flower basket made from a girl) places.?
<<when I am ready, I shall commence the cloning>>: And the Lady?
<<A hammer is a guaranteed way to open a mouse>>: And anything can be used as a hammer.
<<Or to play a series of mice that are trained to squeak at a precise note>>: Remember the airholes.
<<IE doesn't add any more problems>>: But it's also integrated into the operating system, whereas Mozilla is not. So if something botheres your brower, it won't have an effect on your OS.
<<Maybe it will be American McGee's version!>>: You heard he's doing OZ now?

Bud Clare> <<I'll go punish myself now>>: May I watch?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, March 17, 2003 11:48:53 PM
IP: 68.38.240.227

Lila> <<I've noticed your quips and humor sparring with the most sarcastic in the room, and holding your own. ;-) Way to go.>>
Why, thank you. :)

<<That. Is. Awful.>>
I'm sorry. I'll go punish myself now. :P
***************************
JacKaL> <It’s more of a hate Republicans / hate Bush movement in the United States than it is an anti-war movement.>
Bullsh*t. The fact that the president is an idiot is tossing gasoline on the flames, but the primary motivation is most likely fear (although deftly disguised as anger). And don't even get me started on the rabid pro-war people, who are acting just as stupidly as the anti-war people. *grumbles about people who think that their own point of view is the only point of view*

<<She made the choice to end her life for terrorists.>>
How do you know that those homes belonged to terrorists?
**************************
Greg> <<Yes, Bush's key motive is going in to free the Iraqi people. How come I never saw this before. It all makes sense.>>
This may come as a terrible shock to you, but it's very rare for there to be only two possible motives leading to a given action. Just because he likely doesn't care all that much about the Iraqi people, doesn't mean that he has to be doing all this just for the oil. Furthermore, in this wacky place we like to call reality, people also rarely do anything for a single reason. Motives are complicated, and anyone who says otherwise is deluded. Is Bush exhibiting tunnel-vision? Absolutely. But the idea that he's doing this soley for oil is just as ridiculous as the idea that he's only interested in the welfare of the Iraqi people.
(For one thing, we know damned well that he's going to set as many of the oil wells (is that the word?) on fire as he possibly can. It will take years to put them all out, and cost an obscene amount of money. Add to that the cost of the war itself... what exactly are we supposed to be gaining by this? There are cheaper ways to get oil...)
****************************
Yggdrasil> <>
*L* Everyone I tell about it has a list of people that they want to add.
**************************
Fire Storm> <<Why not? A hammer is a guaranteed way to open a mouse!>>
...I suppose that's one way to unstick the buttons...
(They closed up the mouse with a screw... and glue. wtf?)

<<Maybe it will be American McGee's version!>>
*L*

<<One of the best cookies I can no longer find in stores: Coffee Oreo's>>
They still have commercials for them... I haven't tried them yet, but the mint were tasty.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Monday, March 17, 2003 11:34:45 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Re: Toppling Saddam encourages terrorism.

This might give terrorist recruiters more rhetoric and make-believe to sell lies to recruits, but they don't need any facts at all to spin the streams of B.S. like they've been doing for the last decade.

Terrorist groups have and will continue to hate America, target America, and lie about America until they are killed or America is destroyed and/or replaced with a radical fundamentalist state run by some perversion of Islam where women are property and courts are run by religious zealots who like to stone people that disagree with them.

Toppling Saddam Hussein won't change that reality for the worse in the long run, not one damn bit.

If nothing else, removing Saddam cuts off some of their funding and access to weapons. Less well-funded and less well-armed terrorist groups are less threatening terrorist groups (if only slightly).

The single strongest weapons against the terrorist propaganda machine? Smiling, happy, healthy, and free Iraqi citizens out from under the brutality of Saddam Hussein to set the example that the West is not the Devil and isn't going to eat your babies.

Appeasement of terrorist and dictators will not make the world a safer place in the long run.
Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Monday, March 17, 2003 10:52:41 PM
IP: 66.30.158.19

I find this pretty funny.

http://wsbradio.com/news/031703wineprotest7a.html

French Protest
Two Atlanta area restaurants pour French wine into river

(WSB Radio) -- Two Atlanta area restaurants have shown their displeasure with France's position on Iraq by pouring French wine into the Chattahoochee River.

Rays on the River and Killer Creek Chop House are taking the French wines off their menu. They dumped wine into the Chattahoochee monday afternoon as a protest against France's refusal to support a U.N. resolution that could lead to war against Iraq.

A spokesman says restaurant management has become increasingly frustrated with the French government's efforts to ``thwart the will of America.'' He says removing French wine from the menu and pouring it in the river is a way to make a public statement.

Question
Monday, March 17, 2003 09:54:32 PM
IP: 216.170.210.200

Well, say hello to more terrorism. Where ever he is, Osama bin Laden is a happy man. He's got the perfect vehicle to recruit more people into al Qaeda to commit acts of terror against us. He probably wants this more than Bush does. He'll be the one to benefit the most.

Bush said that the removal of Saddam Hussein will cause terror to diminish, which of course is complete and utter bullshit. There's going to be more. You bet your ass on it.

The best thing now would be for Saddam Hussein and his sons to get out. We could pick him up and place him on trial, and thousands of lives on both sides would be safe.

But the decision has been made, and as much as I loathe Bush and this decision, our troops there do have my support. They'll do what ever they have to do, and I can only hope it ends quickly with minimal bloodshed on both sides.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, March 17, 2003 09:10:27 PM
IP: 216.179.3.152

More Bush speech stuff: Rape rooms?

CNN: French MRE's have wine in them?

Is French kissing now Freedom kissing?
Is French Cuisine now called crap?

Gside: 
My doG! That sounds absolutely artery clogging! (gotta try it)
<and add three blocks of the oldest cheddar you can find>
I got some really old (and really green) cheddar in my fridge. Does it count?

So, you accept this declaration of shenanigans? Let me get my broom...
<Unfortunately, it's been a bit lacking in sex articles lately. Most of the porn is the random pictures they put in to fill space>
That sucks... It's like the Metro Times. Ask Isadora used to be in it... now there is a column about gay couples and lifestyle questions
<Goes great with out new snack, Silicon Wafers>
"Don't ask why they taste so good. It's technical."
<Set it to from the begining, and look through the older stuff.>
A lot of dead links. Most of what I saw so far wasn't too bad yet.
<There can always be more if you do not feel the world is ready enough yet>
Well, when I am ready, I shall commence the cloning

Bud-Clare: <My problem is that I can't get my mouse apart to clean it out. :(>
Why not? A hammer is a guaranteed way to open a mouse!
(Or to play a series of mice that are trained to squeak at a precise note)

Imzadi: <Switch to Mozilla, you wimp>
Ah, fergetaboutit. IE is here, and my system crashes so often anyway, IE doesn't add any more problems.
<And before you say something about games, real men use consoles>
All I care about is modding in games. Hell, I would LOVE a version of Mozilla for my Gamecube.
<But not Xboxes>
Damn straight.

Like I have to ph34r
<You're sick.>
And you are just figuring this out?
<I'm up to about 50 gigs now. Working on more>
You have BROADBAND! You are SINGLE! Why don't you have more?
<Those chicks are ugly by BERKELEY standards>
Chicks here are good looking too... under their coats
<On the contrary, a larger shoe means less effort to deliver a kicktothenuts.com.>
Bad plug dude. Bad plug
<You'd triple the sale to the geek crowd.>
At least!
<Watch the Man Show. More realistic boobies.>
Animated boobs can be more fun, though

Leo: <There's going to be a "Charlotte's Web 2"? WTF!!!!>
Maybe it will be American McGee's version! <VEG>

One of the best cookies I can no longer find in stores: Coffee Oreo's

My link: Seti@HOME is now actively searching for life, as opposed to simply passively recording.
Fire Storm
Monday, March 17, 2003 08:43:16 PM
IP: 66.72.177.2

Let it be known, that on the night when I finally secure an apartment for next year, I should not be informed that it could be blown up before then ;)
Niamhgold
Monday, March 17, 2003 08:31:17 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

Bush's Speech: Well, it looks like we are 48 hours before goind to war (he hasn't set a deadline as of my post... my god, this guy can talk!)

Let me tell you... I am surprised! I thought for SURE that Bush was going to use diplomatic methods!
This took me by surprise!

/sarcasm
Fire Storm
Monday, March 17, 2003 08:07:45 PM
IP: 66.72.177.2

Greetings;

Bud-Clair: I like your proposal, provided that one amendment is added. Jean Chretien gets to go as well. He may not be involved in the current spat, but we want him out. Just think of the group dynamics: An evil dictator who is drunk with power, a moron who is also drunk with power, and a guy who we can't tell if he's a moron because we can't understand him. (He's also drunk with power, but hey we elected him three times running so he's got some reason)

Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Monday, March 17, 2003 06:48:39 PM
IP: 24.102.228.212

Seriously,

I don't think anyone in their right minds believes that the President of the United States of America is going to throw American soldiers into the breach just to knock over every petty dictatorship on the planet. Liberating the Iraqi people from dictatorship is side-effect of deposing Saddam Hussein's regime.

While it is not the controling motive of this action (nor should it be in light of the content of the Oath of Office Bush took), it is an extremely positive side-effect to consider in the consequences of military action.

It seems rather two-faced and shifty for people to try to oppose removing Saddam Hussein by arguing the consequences of waging a war are loss of innocent lives, but then refuse to acknowledge that the consequences of taking no action against Saddam Hussein is also the loss of even more innocent life - on top of good, old-fashioned oppression, rape, and murder.

So, in terms of the moral consequentialism arguments (the primary ones leveled against military action in Iraq) the liberation of the Iraqi people is of huge value - irregardless of whether or not it is a motive of the administration.

When we look at motives, we see clearly why we are kicking over the dictatorship in Iraq rather than Saudi Arabia or Africa - threat value.

Saddam Hussein and Co. have an axe to grind with the United States, a track-record of violent aggression, totalitarian and completely undemocratic control over their country, a love for terrorist organizations, a laundry list of human rights violations against their own people, a track-record for lying and breaking peace agreements, and a Ridiculously Huge Bankroll.

- And no, Chirac, Saddam has absolutely no intention of paying you back any of that $25 billion you loaned him, sucker. -

You could put all the dictatorships in Africa together and still come up short of Saddam's bankroll even after UN Sanctions. Money is power when it comes to weapons proliferation and terrorist activity. Saddam has crap loads of it and is sitting on more, and has no qualms about at whose expense he gets it.

Saudi Arabia probably has more money than Iraq, but it is at least more vested in the interests of the free world. Hostility from its ruling body towards the rest of the world is muted at best and it hasn't invaded anyone in the last 2 decades. Sure, the place is an oppressive cesspool in need of cleaning, but the Saudi government is far more cooperative and far less hostile than Saddam's dictatorship and there is at least - some - remove to work with in pushing Saudi Arabia towards a system more friendly toward individual freedom and democracy through exposure.

They also at least marginally complied with us when we dropped the hammer on some of the Royal Family's favorite "charities" when we went to disassemble the Al-Qaede network.

Oh yeah, and then there is China, one of the most brutal, totalitarian states in the world. We don't mess around with China because they already HAVE nuclear and chemical weapons and any attempt to depose their ruling party would be A.) perceived as another Opium War scenario by the Chinese people and B.) would result in the complete themonuclear anihilation of the world. Instead, we play ball with China and slowly the Chinese people's desires, the fall of the USSR, and the lure of capitalism force gradual change in China.

North Korea? That government's turn is coming, but the situation is a lot more complex and we're already deployed in the Middle East. Better to take it one land-war at a time whenever possible, IMO.

So toppling Saddam is the right move in terms of the United State's best interests (and those of most of the free world, IMO) and the moral consequences of destruction during such action are far outweighed by the opportunity to liberate the Iraqi people and the consequences of continued abuse at the hands of Saddam if nothing is done to stop him.

As for the idiot in office, I'd advise you to run a candidate with a spine and a war-chest that isn't stocked by the Chinese Communist Party next time if you want to get rid of him. I don't think re-running the smiling tree-man from the freak-show tent or one of his clones is going to get Democrats anywhere in 2004.

Maybe you should take your chances with another Mike Dukakis. We've got a make-believe Irishman in the Senate from my state right now I'd LOVE to see win the primary. :D

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Monday, March 17, 2003 01:11:33 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Yes, Bush's key motive is going in to free the Iraqi people. How come I never saw this before. It all makes sense. ::Rolls eyes::

If liberating an oppressed people is his key concern, than I have a whole list of countries and leaders Bush should go after, with fucking Saudi Arabia right on top. What about countless nations in Africa? What about North Korea (Kim Jong Il is much more dangerous than Saddam Hussein could ever hope to be)?

But, they ain't got oil. If Kuwait had no oil, I'm sure Bush Sr. would have let Iraq have it back in '91 (hey, he was our buddy before then).

And no, I'm not Anti-American. Not Anti-American in the least. I'm one of the biggest patriots you will ever meet. If I wasn't, I'd just be keeping my mouth shut.

I also respect the office of the president. But respecting the office and respecting the moron occupying it are two different things entirely.

Of course this is all just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, March 17, 2003 11:48:50 AM
IP: 216.179.3.152

Sadly, no chickens for me the other day, ahh well.

Dezi - Yeah, what Kaioto said! LoL

Ok, check this out -

Protesting....
Not one single sign calling for Saddam Hussein to disarm.
Not one single demand that I saw that Hussein abide by U.N. Resolution 1441. It's always against the U.S.

The inescapable conclusion is that it is leftist-driven anti-Americanism that is driving those demonstrations overseas, and partisan politics that is driving those demonstrations at home. Let’s make it clear here. I am not saying that Americans demonstrating against the war are anti-American. I’m saying that they’re liberals, Democrats and leftists who do not want to see another Republican president prevail a significant international conflict. They watched Reagan bring down the Soviet Union, though they certainly won’t admit it. They watched Bush 41 liberate Kuwait. Now they’re poised to sit on the sidelines and see Bush 43 liberate Iraq. It’s more of a hate Republicans / hate Bush movement in the United States than it is an anti-war movement.

So, you go to Palestinian areas of the Middle East to act as a “human shield.” You want to keep Israelis from destroying the homes of terrorists. You end up being very dead. It’s a pretty tough way to learn that actions have consequences. - Neal Boortz

"Rachel was alone in front of the house as we were trying to get them to stop," Schnabel said. "She waved for the bulldozer to stop and waved. She fell down and the bulldozer kept going. We yelled, 'Stop, stop,' and the bulldozer didn't stop at all. It had completely run over her and then it reversed and ran back over her."
Witnesses said Corrie was wearing a brightly colored jacket when the bulldozer hit her. She had been a student at The Evergreen State College in Olympia and would have graduated this year, Schnabel said. The Israeli military and the U.S. State Department had no immediate comment."

And they shouldn't comment on this, they shouldn't waste their time! She made the choice to end her life for terrorists. People need to wake up and realize this is serious shit that's going on. There's better ways of protesting than sticking your neck out on the front lines of war, because that's exactly what this is.

These silly "Human Shield" people better get out of Iraq while they can, if they think they won't get run down or blown to hell, they got another thing coming. Saddam has had enough time, 12 years, what else do these people want? This is it, it's finally over.

<<Actually, the changing the name of "french fries" to "freedom fries" (while reminiscent of similar changes to German-originated objects during World War I) is poorly founded>>

There are these things called jokes. I.. I... joke, man. I dunno what else to say.

LoL Freedom Tickler...
JacKaL
IraqMonday, March 17, 2003 10:05:38 AM
IP: 205.188.208.9

A brief return from lurking. . . on spring break and at last have time to devote to whatever I darned well please.
Wow, seems as though lives are going well for everyone! Congrats are of course in order for those deserving of such.

Leo- Hope that soap poisoning thing clears up. . . (yowch)
:-P

Gside-<<But I want to see the pretty girls jump up and down.>> And they think you're abnormal... silly fools. ;-)
<<But I'm strongest when you're asleep.>> I am troubled by that statement...

Bud-Clare: Aside from replies to your wit: you rock. I've noticed your quips and humor sparring with the most sarcastic in the room, and holding your own. ;-) Way to go.<<If Sadaam goes into exile, so will Bush. The whole world will agree to that one (aside from Sadaam, Bush, and Bush's mother, but screw 'em).>> A-freakin'-men, sister! Where do we sign? All those taxes he promised to keep low for us... totally going to sh*t to support the gas prices and his follies... grr.
<<So, you invented a new kind of cheese: Geek Cheese.>> That. Is. Awful. :-P

Imzadi: (Belated bravos on all your good news.) <<More studying, trip to the gym,>> Geeks go to GYMS??? Times must be a-changin'.

It suddenly got extremely late. And I need to... not do anything I don't want to tomorrow! YAY! Ah, the bliss of spring break.
Night, all!

Lila
L.A., C.A.
Monday, March 17, 2003 04:54:36 AM
IP: 134.173.121.83

More studying, trip to the gym, that's about it. I wish my weekends were more eventful, but frankly I'm just lazy.

Leo: <<that's not something you should joke about in front of a German, unless you know for certain that person won't be offended>>: Like I care if someone is offended by something I say. I didn't say that Tribun was a nazi, or even imply it.
<<There's going to be a "Charlotte's Web 2"? WTF!!>>: Curses!

Tribun: <<If somebody dares to associate me with the head-shaved brown scum, I would at once want a apology from him for that>>: Well, you aren't getting one. All I did was point out what happened the last time someone tried to unify Europe.

Gside: <<Apologies about that.>>: Third time is a charm?
<<be like me>>: On second thought...
<>: Watch the Man Show. More realistic boobies.
<<Milk solidifies if you leave it next to anything for too long>>: True, but it was only there for a few hours.
<<But I'm strongest when you're asleep>>: And that's the trouble.

Bud-Clare: <<If Sadaam goes into exile, so will Bush>>: Two birds with one stone!
<<Always look on the bright side of Life?>>: ::whistles::
<<Geek Cheese>>: Somehow, I don't think it will sell as well as Gouda. But its probably better than meunster.
<<that's a euphemism>>: I know, I was just giving you a hard time.
<<Powerful beings like to be amused just as much as anyone else.>>: Perhaps, but if they were smart they'd put off the amusement until after they'd conquered everything.
<<for a bunch of people that would be unemployed otherwise>>: That's just as true if the students spent the money elsewhere.

153. My Legions of Terror will be an equal-opportunity employer. Conversely, when it is prophesied that no man can defeat me, I will keep in mind the increasing number of non-traditional gender roles.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Monday, March 17, 2003 03:56:36 AM
IP: 64.165.203.31

I just had a great idea. We make a new proposal: If Sadaam goes into exile, so will Bush. The whole world will agree to that one (aside from Sadaam, Bush, and Bush's mother, but screw 'em).

***************************
Leo> <<Of course there have to be a few "happy hapy" songs about life thrown in for no good reason other that the original had them.>>
Always look on the bright side of Life?
***************************
Josh> <>
So, you invented a new kind of cheese: Geek Cheese.

<<You're reduced to begging?>>
No, that's a euphemism for "What the #^$@ is that supposed to mean?!?"

<<Not a good reason for a powerful being to want him on their side. In fact, a great reason to be rid of him.>>
I disagree. Powerful beings like to be amused just as much as anyone else.

<<Same place. It all goes into one big pot. For him.>>
And for a bunch of people that would be unemployed otherwise. It's a crappy thing to do, but it's not quite as bad as you make it out to be.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Monday, March 17, 2003 02:37:23 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

Apologies about that.

Imzadi> <<Switch to Mozilla, you wimp>>: Yes, be like me.
<<But not Xboxes>>: But I want to see the pretty girls jump up and down.
<<Did it solidify?>>: Since it led to the invention of cheese, I'd say so.
<<milk does that if you leave it next to a CRT for too long>>: Milk solidifies if you leave it next to anything for too long.
<<Must get as old as me hitting on Sorow>>: Yes, but I must be me.
<>: But I'm strongest when you're asleep.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:57:30 PM
IP: 68.38.240.227

...
Gside - [gside@eden.rutgers.edu]
Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:34:26 PM
IP: 68.38.240.227

But don't worry. I'll mange to get along.

Somehow.
Leo
Sunday, March 16, 2003 09:32:59 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

::comes back into the CR wearing dark glasses an tapping a cane.::

It...it was.........

Soap... Poisoning.
Leo
Sunday, March 16, 2003 09:30:35 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

:: wheels in a case of Lifebuoy ::

Here you go, Todd. Just sign here. ;)
Patrick Toman
Sunday, March 16, 2003 07:41:34 PM
IP: 65.43.158.175

*looks at Leo's post *

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Anybody here got any soap? I may need to wash somebody's mouth with it.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, March 16, 2003 06:32:23 PM
IP: 65.57.62.42

11th.

Sh!@@^ %^*&^% *&^%$#&^%&$^%#$#^*%^&$!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leo
Sunday, March 16, 2003 05:24:36 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

10th in the name of the Fay

MC
Mooncat
Sunday, March 16, 2003 04:40:19 PM
IP: 68.102.23.36

Nine...
lila
la, ca, usa
Sunday, March 16, 2003 04:32:58 PM
IP: 134.173.121.83

eight!!
Siryn
Sunday, March 16, 2003 04:22:44 PM
IP: 66.66.97.209

Seventh.
Bud-Clare
Sunday, March 16, 2003 04:19:44 PM
IP: 24.169.113.216

btw, from dictionary.com, a rick is a stack of hay, straw, or similar material, especially when covered or thatched for protection from the weather.
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, March 16, 2003 04:07:01 PM
IP: 204.94.193.61

Top 10, #6?
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, March 16, 2003 03:54:15 PM
IP: 204.94.193.61

Five is right out
silvadel
Sunday, March 16, 2003 03:43:36 PM
IP: 208.58.107.167

Go FOURTH... in the name of Thy Master!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL, USA
Sunday, March 16, 2003 03:33:39 PM
IP: 65.35.132.55

Three shall be the number of thy counting!
Josh
Sunday, March 16, 2003 03:06:13 PM
IP: 64.165.203.31

SECOND!! -and now to go watch Lilo and Stitch for the ba-zillionth time. 8-)
Dezi
Sunday, March 16, 2003 03:05:44 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

:: bunts and runs to FIRST ::
Patrick Toman
Sunday, March 16, 2003 03:01:13 PM
IP: 65.43.158.175