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Gside> <<And you don't have any type of transmitter in the tag?>>
*flashes a little red light* Beep, beep.

<<Now making them come to school anyway and stay in one small room for the entire day...>>
Ah, ISS... That brings back dull memories.

<>
I have a landlady. As long as the shrink is male, it'd (hopefully) be an improvement.
________________
Josh> <<What does that even mean?>>
It might be one step above (or below) "you're full of shit", i.e. you're no longer just full of it, you've actually become it. Or maybe it's the you-are-what-you-eat thing, and he's questioning your eating habits. Either way, you might want to consider being offended.

<<stand up for your right to have a penis>>
I'm going to stand up for my right not to have to hear about your penis. :P

<<Darker backgrounds with lighter text.>>
Even just an off-white is better.

<<Join the rest of the world and play soccer, damn it.>>
Or at least rugby, which is funner (look ma, I flunked english!) to watch than football.

<<It's not that traumatizing.>>
The hell it's not. As much as I like to threaten to become a lesbian, I'm really not cut out for it.

<>
My mother?!?

<<The latter.>>
Gotcha. And not arguing.

<<If everything were cross-platform from the outset, life would be much easier for everyone involved.>>
School assignments rarely need to be cross-platform.

<>
You know very little about my example school or what constitutes a good CS program. I, on the other hand, am familiar with both the school and CS programs, so why the hell would you take my word for it? Damn engineers.

<<They just created a lot of VC++ experts, who aren't real useful.>>
No, they didn't. You're being presumptuous again.

<>
Well, gosh, it _must_ be useless then.

<>
*sets Josh on fire*

<<Then join me!>>
Nah, I don't care.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Sunday, September 7, 2003 04:04:20 AM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Um, nothing.

Mark: <<you're bullshit>>: What does that even mean? Is that like "U R teh SUXXORS!"

Heather: <<it was uncalled for>>: It got your attention, didn't it?

Lynati: <<he's agreeing with the importance that should be on learning basic life skills in High School>>: Thank you for listening.

Lain: <<what happened to salam pax?>>: Who?

Fire Storm: <<woman's studies classes>>: Don't let the feminazis get you down stand up for your right to have a penis.
<<what would you suggest?>>: Something less eye-burning. Darker backgrounds with lighter text.
<>: I agree.
<<just admit that CD's are going to die>>: Not everyone wants digital-only music. I, for one, am annoyed with the concept of "licensing" the user to listen to their own music. If I pay for a license to use music, then I expect a replacement if my copy gets damaged or destroyed. Likewise, I expect the RIAA to go after the bastards who stole my CD collection, because they are listening to music without a license!
<>: Coding itself doesn't bother me as much as bug-hunting/fixing, which is most of code writing.
<<what are you going to do with the educational system?>>: Make it not suck. See Japan. Also, I WILL fail anyone who doesn't pass, thereby making a high school diploma actually worth having.
<<Here is what 10-12 SHOULD be>>: I like it.
<<No football for him (NO EXCEPTIONS)>>: One thing I'm going to do is require schools to match every dime that the spend on football in every other department. This won't necessarily cut down on bullies, but it will drive down the motivation to cut them slack because the school can be known for things besides sports. Also, outlaw football. Join the rest of the world and play soccer, damn it.
<<there are few military strategy books on completely wiping out a species>>: Maybe I should write one.
<<why are you just yelling at the building?>> "I'm hoping its a transformer."
<<GOTO school. GOTO work. GOTO home>>: GOTO hell?

Bud Clare: <>: Hate it when that happens.
<<because I'd need it>>: It's not that traumatizing.
<<In what universe?>>: This one.
<<Have you heard of any dorms being blown up lately?>>: I wish.
<<Yes, and?>>: And its not here.
<>: I don't know, is she old? Old people's houses smell funny.
<<Are you insulting our brains or our social skills?>>: The latter.
<<I'm still not seeing how your aversion to blogging is anything other than arbitrary>>: Fine, whatever.
<<you don't need anything cross-platform for awhile>>: I disagree. If everything were cross-platform from the outset, life would be much easier for everyone involved.
<<Would it really matter if one were taught in VC++?>>: Does VC++ compile for Unix? Then it matters.
<<The quality of the course is a hell of a lot more important than the language used>>: I disagree, especially for your example school. They just created a lot of VC++ experts, who aren't real useful.
<<Good thing you're not in CS>>: Engineering programming is enough for me.
<<If there are problems with it then it's the fault of the teachers, not the subject>>: I'm not sure about that. I can't imagine any reason for the existence of philosophy. At all. And Berkeley has a top 5 philosophy department. There doesn't seem to be anything that you actually DO with a philosophy degree (not that philo majors can't/don't go on to do other things, but then where are they using their degree?), except become a philosophy PhD so you can be a philosophy professor to teach more philosophy students to get PhD's and yada yada yada...
<<Don't be such an engineer>>: Sorry.
<>: Good. I like to keep chicks guessing.
<<your teachers still give you A's?>>: What does one...oh, I get it. Well, not in public 8-)
<>: Then join me!
<<All those marijuana fumes in the air>>: No kidding.

Gside: <<Susan hated Literature. She'd much prefer to read a good book>>: Agreed.
<>: if you lie about small things, you'll get practice for when you need it, like relationships.
<>: I didn't.
<<you don't have any type of transmitter in the tag?>>: Says who?

226. I will have a staff of competent detectives handy. If I learn that someone in a certain village is plotting against me, I will have them find out who rather than wipe out the entire village in a preemptive strike.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Sunday, September 7, 2003 03:18:14 AM
IP: 64.170.152.180

Fun quote: "Susan hated Literature. She'd much prefer to read a good book."

Imzadi> <<Except when I'm lying>>: I try to lie only about the big things.
<<But at this school, students are required to implement extra-slow versions of things like cache and memory in code. It's very odd>>: True, but at least they have another way it's being taught to them.
<<That's what I said>>: I never would have thought you'd give me the title of the best.
<>: And you don't have any type of transmitter in the tag?
<<That's disgusting>>: Thank you.
<<As it stands, I don't think that would work for Andrea>>: No, but I'm sure she could find something of an opposite nature.

Fire Storm> <<UofM may be a decent biomed college, but it also is quite liberal>>: What major college isn't rather liberal?
<<just admit that CD's are going to die>>: I don't know, sometimes I feel like a CD. I'm just too cheap now.
<<bring in restaurants to supply food for those that would prefer that to cafeteria food>>: But will they be able to provide for the same price as schools try to get now (to make sure everyone can afford it).
<<Suspensions are a joke>>: Never understood out of school suspensions. Now making them come to school anyway and stay in one small room for the entire day...
<<But wouldn't they try and figure out how we think so they can kill us more efficiently?>>: Just one rogue robot wouldn't be able to trick up into doing it ourselves (the most efficient way), without some more influence behind it.
<<Dude, why are you just yelling at the building?>>: It's been here long enough, it should have learned to think by now.
<<Well, at least no one is saying: "MORE! MORE! Oh GOD, *MORE*!!">>: Have you ever seen the article about the PS2 accessory sold with the game Rez in Japan?

Bud Clare> <<You have a smutty mind>>: Thank you. Though I was thinking about oral sex before the payment issue came up.
<>: I wouldn't trust the therapy you'd get, because paying for it would increase the the root problem even more.
<<You might catch it>>: I know, but with any luck, I can follow it up with some nice carniverous animal to counteract the you are what you eat effect.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, September 7, 2003 01:14:33 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

First off, thank you SO much for putting up with me the last few days. I'm still kinda stressed, but I do feel a lot better (and even more so since PMS has passed. I tend to get real emotional, and any random thing can set me off in anger mode or upset mode, which is pretty much what happened).

I had dinner last night with my room neighbor, she seems nice. Not someone I'd hang out with everyday, but we'll chat if we see each other.

I went to the mall today too (shopping DEFINATLY makes me feel better! I spent over $100!). While waiting for the bus to take us there, I chatted with this girl all the way there. I lot her in Best Buy (a big crowd walked between us), but I saw her again on the bus on the way home. She was sitting with one of her Room neighbors, and we got into talking about anime, and she even offered to let be borrow her Card Captor Sakura DVD! (before I even knew her name! We exchanged names and room #'s right after, but I never did find out the 1st girls name!). Looks like I made a friend (or two)! That'll help cheer me up.

Roommate situation is okay. I haven't said anything to them, but I'm giving them a second chance (since the raging hormones have passed, and little things won't tick me off nearly as much, plus I think I was a little harsh in my judgements). I'm trying to be extra nice to them though, in hopes that they will return it, and that we'll get along somewhat better until we're broken up (next Monday at the earliest, though I doubt it will happen that day. But there is a chance we'll be stuck like this ALL semester (but in that case, we get a rebate on room & board costs).

In other news, right as we got off the bus after returning to campus, the bus driver told us the power was out all around campus. We thought he was kidding. The 2 girls I met went to eat, and I went back to my dorm to put my stuff away. Turns out, power WAS out (I don't know exactly what happened, but I could care less), and the stairs were PITCH BLACK! I couldn't see ANYTHING! There WAS a small light flickering (I don't know it's real purpose), and I waited a minute for my eyes to adjust to the SLIGHT light. It was still dark, so I actually had to FEEL the floor doors to be able to tell where I was! (I forgot how many flights I had climbed, and our floor door has decorations on it, while the 2 below us don't).

I made my way to the dining hall, where the food was free! Too bad any foods that needed cooking were cold...but the ice cream was partially melted and at an ideal scooping texture (it's an open freezer, but it's VERY cold and the ice cream is pretty hard and hard to scoop).

Now hurry up and finish Dark Ages. That would make me even happier! ;)

Again, thank you VERY much for all you help and tolerating me.

Oh, and sorry about the CS major-stuff war I started...That was unintentional!

I get to call my mommy tomorrow! Yeah! I miss her :(
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Saturday, September 6, 2003 11:29:30 PM
IP: 130.111.155.35

Argh. Yesterday (this morning, actually), I lost my internet connection _immediately_ before I was going to post. Lousy timing..........
_______________________
Andrea> <<What's the "right" way for me to act anyway?>>
A way that doesn't make you miserable?

<<And anyone that can tell me, what givem them the right to do so?>>
The fact that you just asked. ;)
___________________
Niamhgold> <<he/she doesn't have to be award winning, just someone in the advertising/interative media/animation/storyboarding/you name it field>>
Karine?

<<...It's out there. Deal with it.>>
And Flash games are nice.

<<He can scrub the bathtub clothed. Be naked later>>
That's all I ask. ;)

<<Do liberal arts majors have hands-on production skills?>>
No, but neither do musicians.

<<Are these people your *roommates* (actually sharing the same bedroom)>>
Dorm.

<<Every pair of roommates resort to notes at one point or another, and it's just plain stupid.>>
I did that once, because I was on my way out the door but too pissed off to wait. It didn't work, though. She refused to do what I asked, even though the b*tch had no right to refuse, regardless of how I asked. (I told her to undo something that she had no business doing in the first place. It's been years since I saw her, and I'd still like to slap her. She was evil.)

<<it's really a very well thought-out show>>
Except for a lot of the dialogue...

<<The one in Sacramento always gives my book gift certificates, so she doesn't get traded>>
Damn.
______________
Gside> <<You didn't say what you wanted to be paid in.>>
You have a smutty mind.

<<There you go, that's one problem solved.>>
I wonder if it can pay for therapy, too, because I'd need it.

<<People congregate in places like this, you have to go searching for a specific person in a blog.>>
Only the first time, and the effort really isn't very taxing.

<<It'd mean one less vegtarian in the world.>>
You might catch it.
__________________
Jim R.> <<If you didn't like some of your team members, you would have to live with them for another semester.>>
Mine weren't bad, actually, aside from the fact that we were all equally clueless most of the time (which actually made it better in some ways). Asking the teacher for help was usually futile, as she couldn't seem to give a straight answer to save her life.

<>
*whimpers*
________________
Josh> <<You weren't.>>
In what universe?

<<Don't you live in dorms?>>
Have you heard of any dorms being blown up lately? Then the answer is no.

<<well, that's kind of what defines a blog.>>
Yes, and?

<>
And I was asking why it would.

<<Networking is difficult for most CS majors>>
Are you insulting our brains or our social skills?

<<That's not updated nearly as often as a blog.>>
And? I'm still not seeing how your aversion to blogging is anything other than arbitrary.

<<Yes, but for a first language I'd think something cross-platform would be more useful (C++ over VC++).>>
But you don't need anything cross-platform for awhile, and by then you ought to be relatively good at learning new languages, and in this case it's not even totally new.

<>
At my current school, some of the required courses are taught in Java, some C++, some in other languages... Would it really matter if one were taught in VC++? At my last school (a community college that had a good CS program), all the major programming courses were taught in VC++. The quality of the course is a hell of a lot more important than the language used. And if you can't easily switch from VC++ to C++, you're probably in the wrong major.

<<Some of the HCI classes don't require coding>>
*L* I can't look at that without thinking hydrochloric acid.

<<No, I don't think so. I think ANY debugging leads to madness.>>
Good thing you're not in CS. :)

<<Truth be told, it's philosophy that really bugs me.>>
If there are problems with it then it's the fault of the teachers, not the subject.

<<Like humanities?>>
*smacks* Don't be such an engineer. :P

<>
We had home ec in junior high. Not completely useless (although I did get into a hair-pulling fight once).

<<Gathering Virgins for G2k4?>>
They aren't going to be sacrificed, are they? Because that keeps them from ever coming back.

<<Except when I'm lying.>>
And being sarcastic, since the inexperienced can't tell. Hell, I can't tell sometimes. ;)

<<All the freakin time.>>
And your teachers still give you A's? I'd think they'd call the police on you...

<< <<Has anyone else complained?>>: Just me.>>
Actually, I was griping about that during the first season, just quietly and when no one else was around. ;)

<<But at this school, students are required to implement extra-slow versions of things like cache and memory in code. It's very odd.>>
*L* It's the proximity to hippies. All those marijuana fumes in the air...

<<The study of what some idiot thinks an author meant, when the author himself said he meant otherwise.>>
*cheers*
____________________
Fire Storm> <<Code represents order and logic, which can do wonders for how someone thinks.>>
I know too many stupid programmers to believe that. Either you've got logic or you don't, and learning only refines it if you've got it to begin with.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Saturday, September 6, 2003 08:12:46 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Imzadi: <Like humanities?>
Yeah, and those STUPID as hell woman's studies classes and whatnot. Granted, I have yet to take one of these stupid classes, and I do not look forward to it. UofM may be a decent biomed college, but it also is quite liberal.
<Okay, I've decided that it's time for TGS to stop using a white background for it's stories>
Well, what would you suggest?

Yeah, but I am considering taking the class (Or at least standard C), just so I can have it on my college resume. (I REALLY hope that the computer literacy test I will be taking will allow me to skip to CIS-230)
At least I won't have to take CIS-100 (Basic course about how to use Windows and the Internet), CIS-112 (Computer Logic), and a few other that I could probably teach (UNIX shell scripting for one).
<Universal's music group will be cutting CD prices to 12.98 MSRP to combat piracy and increase sales>
It sounds good, but I think it's too little, too late. They REALLY should just embrace on-line music sales ($.50-$.75 per song) and just admit that CD's are going to die.
<I'm not a programmer, I'm an engineer. I hate coding>
Really? You hate coding? Hmm. At worst, I would have thought you were indifferent to it.
<Rule the world>
Hey, when you take over, what are you going to do with the educational system?

Kaioto: <grades 10-12 optional and require enterance exams>
I think 10-12 should remain mandatory, just make damn sure that everyone that graduates is literate. Vo-Tech should be in high school too, but so should the higher maths and sciences.
<At any rate, grades 10-12 should be college or career preparation>
Good in theory. Add in life preparation too. Career preparation is less important because, quite frankly, how many people REALLY know what career they are going for in life? Here is what 10-12 SHOULD be:
PhysED: (Fitness emphasized, sports only occasionally)
Computer Literacy (Learn how to use Office, Windows, Internet. Except for the people who already know. THEY should be able to learn more.)
Science: Chem, Bio, physics (or at LEAST physical science)
Math: To at LEAST trig.
Auto shop: Basic automotive care (Oil change, tune up, change tire, touch on as much as possible to give people at least a basic understanding about cars)
HomeEC: At least the basics on cooking, sewing (mending)
English: I see a benefit in reviewing literature. Make sure there is at least 1 speech class.
History: Learn to NOT repeat it.
Career Prep: Interview process, intro office politics, job prep, etc.
Household Maintenance: Bills, household DIY stuff, ranging from painting all the way to basic house construction, basic electrical wiring.
Art, Creative Writing, Music: Appreciation class at least, how-to classes if desired.
People must pass ALL of the above classes to pass. NO ONE gets special treatment (ESPECIALLY the f#%^ing jocks). If you pass, it is known that you did well and are actually educated. If you fail... you learn to say "You want fries with that?"
Lunch should be an hour long AND there should be better food (bring in restaurants to supply food for those that would prefer that to cafeteria food)
Punishment: Suspensions are a joke. Detentions are a joke. Writing lines is a joke. The punishment should suit the criminal more. And bullies... no mercy. Football team bully? No football for him (NO EXCEPTIONS).

Gside: <I'd say that's most likely>
But wouldn't they try and figure out how we think so they can kill us more efficiently?
Yeah, I know... there are few military strategy books on completely wiping out a species.
<A bit of flour as a thickening agent maybe?>
In CHILI? Ew. No. The thickening agent I use is tomato paste.
<Go complain to your local university>
"HEY UofM! I WANT MY 120FT TALL BATTLE MECH!"
"Dude, why are you just yelling at the building?
<What good's a soul anyway?>
Trade in value.

Revel: <"Is it suppose to vibrate like that?">
Well, at least no one is saying: "MORE! MORE! Oh GOD, *MORE*!!"

DPH: <Did you get the email I sent you?>
**Checks e-mail**
Ah. Yes. Here it is. But I am at work and the info is at home.
I expect LM will update soon (files are ready, just needed the FTP software. (I just fixed her computer... again (hardware failure. Blew a power supply... yet again)

Bud-Clare: <And I've killed people who kill blackmailers.>
And I blackmail the people that kill killers of blackmailers.

Jim R: <Wouldn't we all just like to have a GOTO statement in life sometimes?>
I already do. GOTO school. GOTO work. GOTO home. ;)

Mark: Welcome to the CR. You are making a wonderful impression!
<Yeah, right Josh, because studying how human beings develop and express themselves isn't important>
While I agree that it IS important, I think the class would be better suited as a guided discovery of the hows as opposed to having "I am telling you, THIS is how it is!" would be much better. Having all that crap shoved down my throat in high school did little for me. What I learned on my own about the world after high school, on the other hand...
<All that's important is sitting in front of a computer all day long looking at meaningless lines of "code," pretending that that's all you need to know in the world>
Well, work is important. Code represents order and logic, which can do wonders for how someone thinks. Granted, if that is ALL you do, there isn't much to your life (especially since you would have no social skills), but that is a choice everyone has to make.

MTV VMA: Kiss was too short. Madonna looked good in the suit. Watched most of it at 60X, so I kept seeing the same commercials over and over. So the whole thing sucked
Fire Storm
Saturday, September 6, 2003 04:56:22 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Mark, you moron. I'm not a programmer, I'm an engineer. I hate coding. I've made it clear that there are other things to be learned. I'll tell you what doesn't need to be learned, though. The study of what some idiot thinks an author meant, when the author himself said he meant otherwise. Whether or not a character is a metaphor for Jesus Christ just because his initials happen to be JC. Just enjoy the goddamned story. Or the study of "moral calculus" in philosophy, trying to put science to human thought process. Hell, the entire field of philosophy accomplishes nothing more than self-propgation, creating more philosophy PhD's to become professors and pass the bullshit to the next generation.

These things are as useless to me as the study of calculus is to a history major. So stuff it.
Josh
Saturday, September 6, 2003 03:37:16 PM
IP: 64.170.152.180

on another, completely different sidenote... what happened to salam pax?

o.O
lain
Saturday, September 6, 2003 03:09:57 PM
IP: 65.93.87.233

Mark : [Yeah, right Josh, because studying how human beings develop and express themselves isn't important. All that's important is sitting in front of a computer all day long looking at meaningless lines of "code," pretending that that's all you need to know in the world. Josh, you're bullshit]

He's not bullshit, he just loves to play the jerk and antagonize people. And guess what- you just fell for it!

And its strange that you think he believes coding is the only important thing when in the arguement you were responding to, indeed the lines directly after your point of angst, he's agreeing with the importance that should be on learning basic life skills in High School.

Lynati
Saturday, September 6, 2003 02:41:58 PM
IP: 66.142.53.217

Josh> Yea, I was shocked when they switched cameras to Justin. I didn't know what to think when they did that but I thought it was uncalled for what they did.
Heather - [neo_digi@yahoo.com]
Warner Robins, GA, USA
Saturday, September 6, 2003 02:08:09 PM
IP: 68.98.197.174

<<by the time you reach college you aren't wasting time and money on remedial courses in your major>>: Like humanities?>>

Yeah, right Josh, because studying how human beings develop and express themselves isn't important. All that's important is sitting in front of a computer all day long looking at meaningless lines of "code," pretending that that's all you need to know in the world. Josh, you're bullshit.

Mark
Saturday, September 6, 2003 09:27:52 AM
IP: 205.188.209.12

Sleeeepy. I went into SF today to meet my parents and little bro, who drove up to see me this weekend. My little brother will be staying with me this weekend (he's excited to get away from Mom and Dad, even though he's only been home a couple weeks). The parental units fed me, so I was pleased.

Bud-Clare: <<I'm sure I was clear>>: You weren't.
<<Dear god, it probably would>>: Don't you live in dorms?
<<that's significant how?>>: well, that's kind of what defines a blog.
<<It's a strange new experience for me>>: Networking is difficult for most CS majors ;-)
<<What?>>: I was asking if your mother's house smells funny.
<<It was a rude reference to one of the unpleasant side effects of steroids>>: I thought it might be.
<<you _do_ have a webpage which is all about you>>: That's not updated nearly as often as a blog. Also, it doesn't have any "logging" qualities, except for my once-a-semester addition of my class list.
<<at least the visual development studio is semi-decent>>: Yes, but for a first language I'd think something cross-platform would be more useful (C++ over VC++).
<<Some jobs use visual C++, therefore there's no harm in learning it>>: Yes, I agree. I just don't think that a required course should be taught in VC++. Just like it shouldn't be taught in Obj-C.
<<It's not like I'm a CS major or anything>>: Some of the HCI classes don't require coding, I've discovered. Most of the others require coding, at least here. If they cover a non-code-related concept, they require an implementation of it in code.
<>: Thank you.
<<Which, in extreme cases, leads to madness.>>: No, I don't think so. I think ANY debugging leads to madness.
<<Someone has to major in History>>: I agree. Truth be told, it's philosophy that really bugs me.
<<a bunch of guys who didn't see the problem with using red and green text>>: See this CR.

Andrea: <<if it takes no skills, then it's very easy to make a decent page>>: No, I didn't say that. It takes skills to be a GOOD web designer (and I'm not, as I have neither aesthetic sense nor skills with HTML/CSS/PHP/etc). Unfortunately, it does not take skills to be a web designer, because any idiot who can throw together some HTML can call themselves one.
<>: I've seen business cards.
<<Note on the phone, or no note?>>: No note. And if they're around, ask if you can take food, because its the polite thing to do. If they're not around, just take and leave a note saying what you took.
<<What's the "right" way for me to act anyway?>>: Whatever you feel comfortable with. If people don't accept that, then you don't want to deal with them anyway.

Kaioto: <<If the scope of your project involves satisfying a party with more vague requirements, you're going to have to spend most of the time involved in the project doing communications work>>: You'd think so, wouldn't you? Actually, what happens (at least at large firms like, say, Apple) is that the programmers are expected to be working even while the managers and marketing people dick around trying to decide how the product should look. And a project has only one manager and on marketing person to every four to five programmers, so we're looking at a lot more coding time.
<<Well, the real problem is that high schools are a joke in this country>>: I agree, but the real successful CS majors at top schools aren't coming from high schools with no AP CS classes, no computer clubs, etc.
<<because it would "hurt their self-esteem" to be held back until they actually have the basic skills necessary to be certified>>: I hate this.
<<We should take a note from Japan>>: We would, but then the public school systems would be sued for discrimination.
<<by the time you reach college you aren't wasting time and money on remedial courses in your major>>: Like humanities?
<<You shouldn't graduate High School without knowing how to balance a check-book, open a savings account, or dress for a job interview. Being able to boil water without burning down your appartment is another useful skill as well>>: I wish my high school had taught these things. And I went to an expensive private school.

Niamhgold: <<they're a bunch of closet Gargoyles fans>>: Gathering Virgins for G2k4?
<<I'm required to lend them all my VHS's>>: I don't understand this "required".
<<If anyone here knows of a professional>>: You mean like my mom?
<>: I'll say.
<<Meaning you were too gung-ho, or not gung-ho enough?>>: The former.
<<A week without working out takes 20% of what you might have earned in the three months preceeding>>: Not quite. I didn't work out for 3 months, but I've only lost 45% of capacity.
<<Cocoa Monkey?>>: Yes, but most people don't know what cocoa is.
<<By the "Student of Demolitions"?>>: yes.
<>: Christine's headphones.
<<If you want respect from people, especially the guys in here, never use PMS as your scapegoat>>: Too late.
<<Every pair of roommates>>: Not this pair!
<<the physics of momentum and walk cycles>>: And yet, you don't take physics.
<<Yes, he does>>: Two compliments in two days! A new personal best!
<<Honesty is something to be valued>>: Except when I'm lying.
<<The delivery is just sometimes harsh>>: Someone turned the sympathy way down. My parents, I think.

Spacebabie: <<Since you don�t blog that means you�>>: All the freakin time.
<<What the hell do you get graded on?>>: Two midterms and a presentation/paper.
<<Has anyone else complained?>>: Just me.
<>: I bet you say that to all the guys.

Heather: <<when the camera holding out a bit on Britany and Madonna kissing with the tongues showing just got me.>>: I was annoyed that they switched views to Justin Timberlake.

Attila: <>: Please not.

Jim R: <<the quote/reply format you people have standardized in here>>: It's not standard, it's just one of many. Whatever works for you, as long as we can understand it ;-)
<>: It was an incredible experience and I'd never want to work anywhere else. Every day was awesome.
<<try it before I buy it>>: That's the point of the internship.
<<What exactly did you do there?>>: I worked in Product Design, doing mechanical design for portables.
<<it gets hotter than a George Foreman grill>>: if its uncomfortable, send it back and try to get a new one.

Vash: <<Why did you take down the Mac gargoyle icons on your site?>>: No interest in them, no new icons to add, lack of interest from me. Most importantly, though, I was distributing other people's art, often without their permission (even if I wasn't profiting from it). I wouldn't want other people doing that to me.
<<Any chance of them going back up?>>: Not really. If I see cool artwork, I'll be making icons for personal use, but that's about it.

Gside: <<Disk reads, bus operation, memory hierarchy, and the like>>: Agreed. But at this school, students are required to implement extra-slow versions of things like cache and memory in code. It's very odd.
<<By me>>: That's what I said.
<<they're mostly artists trying to show off>>: Thank you.
<<You plant tracers on the first day of classes?>>: No, I just shoot them with a tag.
<<You didn't say what you wanted to be paid in>>: Earths.
<<It'd mean one less vegtarian in the world>>: Do it!
<>: That's disgusting. As it stands, I don't think that would work for Andrea.

Dezi: <>: Good for him.
<<the stupid computing services installes some stuff weird or something, so we would lose some really important stuff, and wouldn't be able to "talk" with our printer company....bleh...could go on for hours about this one...if I actually new what I was talking about>>: Yeah, that's pretty apparent with your flagrant use of the word "stuff" to the point where it's totally unclear what you're talking about at all.

SLEEP NOW!

225. I will explain to my guards that most people have their eyes in the front of their heads and thus while searching for someone it makes little sense to draw a weapon and slowly back down the hallway.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Saturday, September 6, 2003 04:37:28 AM
IP: 64.170.152.180

Vash: [Well, taking everything into consideration, you gave a good stab at it. It just could have used a little polishing.] TGS has rather a lack of polishers right now...I don't suppose you could recommend anyone our way? O.o

Dezi: [operation "what's the frequency Kenneth?"] *SNRRRRRKKKK!!!* cute. nice story. : )
Lynati
Saturday, September 6, 2003 02:37:52 AM
IP: 65.69.70.253

Ok here's my great little story I'm so psyched about:

I got an email from my dad a couple of days ago (he's still in Iraq). He's working on something over there, but he can't tell me the details yet. Anyway, Dan Rather and a pack of about 40 CBS cronies are there trying to dig something up. My dad has been doing his best to stay away from the cameras because he feels he has work to do and that other soldiers come off as "glory hounds".

So he's working on something, and Dan Rather comes up to him and trys to get and interview. Dad was busy so he says no. Dan gets this look on his face like 'don't you know who I am?' and asks "Well why not?"
Dad: Because I don't Like you. and he walks away.
So later Dad emails me saying he's sorry and he has bad news. My family has been wanting him to try and talk to someone with a camera so we can at least see him, and this was kinda his big shot and he threw it away, so he told me he was sorry.
Never mind that, I thought it was cool! My dad dissed The Dan! So I emailed him back that he was my hero and he said that if he was really a hero he would have "locked and loaded the M16 and fired a control burst into a certain newscaster." (He really really doesn't like Dan Rather).
He is now refering to the incident as Operation What's The Frequency Kenneth? and has told me not to bring it up if I'm ever going for a job for CBS (not really likely as I prefer NBC) because The Dan holds a grudge like a mean mutha. :D (<-check it out, I typed like a homie!) :)
So there you go, that's my cool story.

Todd:<they're putting up the Halloween things> At Hobby Lobby (my work) we started with that stuff at the end of July. Partly because it had been sent to us and we have a very small storage area, and partly because they _sent_ it to us with the intent for us to put it on the floor ASAP. Oh yeah, and about two weeks before that we started putting out the Christmas stuff and now have the display trees up and most of the ornaments and statuary out. And I get to hear people complain to me, even though I'm at the low end of the totem pole, they think I must be a Hobby Lobby god because I handle the money, and therefore have the power to do something about it. bleh.

Niamhgold: <Argh ;) > Good luck with it, either way. Hope you have more fun with it than I did. :)
<installed OS X! > We've been pushing for that at my newspaper, but the stupid computing services installes some stuff weird or something, so we would lose some really important stuff, and wouldn't be able to "talk" with our printer company....bleh...could go on for hours about this one...if I actually new what I was talking about...
We're still waiting for the new monitors we've requested two years ago. Progress.

I have actually found the most hick place in the "great" state of Indiana. A neighborhood right here in Indianapolis proudly calls themselves "Frog Holler". Yes that's right Frog Holler. It's built on a low lying area, so every time it rains, both the nearby river and the creek flood and they all have to fish out their homes. But they have been living here for generations (their papy and their papy's papy...) and don't want to move, yet expect the city to fix a FLOOD PLAIN. ...I have got to get out of this place.

later!
Dezi
Saturday, September 6, 2003 01:56:33 AM
IP: 68.58.158.101

Imzadi> <<::confused::>>: I think it's something to do with shrinkage.
<<That's electrical engineering, not computer science>>: There's still a good bit of computer architecture that CS should know about that has nothing to to with electricity. Disk reads, bus operation, memory hierarchy, and the like.
<<That job is taken>>: By me.
<<especially those assholes who use flash>>: I'd say they're mostly artists trying to show off.
<<Or food>>: Well, of course, protein shakes, mostly.
<<Profs can't hide from me!>>: You plant tracers on the first day of classes?

Bud Clare> <<Are you sure that you weren't just not paying attention? Because I'm sure I was clear>>: You only said you wanted to be paid. You didn't say what you wanted to be paid in.
<<oral sex won't pay my rent. ...Dear god, it probably would. *shudders*>>: There you go, that's one problem solved.
<<And that's significant how?>>: People congregate in places like this, you have to go searching for a specific person in a blog.
<<Is he worth it?>>: It'd mean one less vegtarian in the world.

Andrea> <<And inside the refridgerator was a sign saying "*roommate 1* and *roommate 2*'s>>: I put a spare sock in the freezer and called it my fun sock. It also at one point acquired the name "the homeless shelter". Granted it was my microfridge in a public place, but anyway.

Niamhgold> <<Eh, they're very hippyish there>>: I thought they'd be too geeky to be hippy.
<<I'm personally glad I said no to RISD after hearing about some of the hazing crap there>>: You mean my brother could have been hazed? Man.
<<He can scrub the bathtub clothed. Be naked later>>: You can count on me. To be naked later, that is.
<<Every pair of roommates resort to notes at one point or another>>: Only post-its on monitors for missed phone calls.
<<And then what if they smile and say, "hoorah, another convert!" and proceed to sharpen their knives?>>: Learn to like the taste of goat meat.
<<How about grout?>>: I've done just about everything else, so it shouldn't be too hard.
<<The one in Sacramento always gives my book gift certificates, so she doesn't get traded>>: I concur.
<<When do you find out?>>: A couple weeks, they said. Though today I got a call saying a manager wanted to meet with me, so I have to go back up next week.
<<UGH. Just had a *really* bad mental image>>: The evil laugh returns.

Andrea> <<What's the "right" way for me to act anyway?>>: In the net, just remind yourself that it's the internet and doesn't really matter. Otherwise, I advise trying to laugh as much as you can and not let things bother you too much.

Spacebabie> <<How did you know about those Angemon/Angiwoman pics I have?>>: I'm psychic.

Jim> <<But he wanted to abolish the GOTO statement>>: But didn't he prove that with other control structures you can do everything goto can do? I don't remember the last time I used a goto.
<<Wouldn't we all just like to have a GOTO statement in life sometimes?>>: I could do with a "goto have_job". Or just a break out of "while unemployed".

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, September 6, 2003 12:26:11 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

While I'm at it--

Josh> Why did you take down the Mac gargoyle icons on your site? Any chance of them going back up?
Vash
Saturday, September 6, 2003 12:24:43 AM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Still haven't had a chance to read the latest TGS. In the meantime though--

Ed> Interesting that the Grail/emerald connection is real (well, a real part of the legend, anyways). What about griffins and emeralds--any real connection there? <<Seems like my writing really didn't sell that. Oh well.>> Well, taking everything into consideration, you gave a good stab at it. It just could have used a little polishing.

Jim R.> Welcome back! And you can already predict what I'm going to ask you... where are those music videos???? ;)
Vash
Saturday, September 6, 2003 12:22:17 AM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Thanks everyone for the kind welcome! I'll try my best to grasp the quote/reply format you people have standardized in here. :)

Niamhgold> <<Jim: Welcome back! So you've landed yourself an internship in actionscripting, huh? Congrats!>> Yep. Fun too. Thing is, I knew nothing specific about Flash several months ago other than it made neat, flashy (no pun intended) advertisements and animated web jokes. Flash MX was bought and thrown at me without me knowing anything of actionscript. I spent about 3 weeks just figuring out how to do things in it. Actionscript got to me pretty quickly since it's base syntax is similiar to that of Javascript.

<<It's bizarre, because that sounds exactly what a friend of mine in your area is doing, for the same pay. Perhaps you've run into him ;) >> Really? A Ship.edu student maybe? Where I work I'm the only Flash guy though. Co-workers come up with the design of the simulations in Adobe programs (I personally like Illustrator when I use it), but I do some minor animation and write the code to make 'em work. Preloaders and interface elements interaction, etc. Flash is an amazing program.

<<Have you made a personal website?>> Yes and no. It's there, but I definitely need to get back to making something out of it again (and I will), it's mostly web storage right now. http://www.dialwforwarp.com

Gside> <<But Dijkstra is my friend.>> But he wanted to abolish the GOTO statement! Wouldn't we all just like to have a GOTO statement in life sometimes? How I miss those QBASIC days. ;)

Josh> <> Sad, but true. If only I could forget.

<<A summer at Apple has shown me flaws in my attitude.>> As much as I love Macs, I probably wouldn't want to work directly for Apple. Perhaps "try it before I buy it" sort of thing if I could. Anyways, it's nice to hear you did get to try it at least. What exactly did you do there?

<<12"?>> I guess I did neglect to mention it. Yes, that'd be the one. I was looking to get a laptop after the New Year sometime. I wanted a G4 Powerbook (something with more power than an iBook for the stuff I do), but the 15" seemed way too much at the time. I was astounded when they introduced a cheaper 12" at MWSF. I ordered mine in February, and haven't regretted it. Sure, it gets hotter than a George Foreman grill to the base of the keyboard. But next to computing, it makes great scrambled eggs. =)

Bud-Clare> <<IN A YEAR?!? 10 weeks. We get _10_ weeks.>> All I can say is I couldn't have pulled off what I went through in 10 weeks. I don't know if this is done at other schools, but at Ship, SE is a two-part course. Half in the spring/half in the fall. If you didn't like some of your team members, you would have to live with them for another semester. This sucked at times.

Andrea> <<Web Design isn't a major (at least not yet) at my school. The closest is Computer Science, which I HAD to select it as my major to be able go into web design classes next year. And funny how all the web design classes are part of the computer science program... >> Yeah, that's the annoying part. I wouldn't mind taking some courses on OpenGL myself, but I have to select a different concentration to take them. Of course, it'll take another few department reforms before that'll happen.
Jim R. - [email-jim@lycos.com]
Shippensburg, PA
Saturday, September 6, 2003 12:07:35 AM
IP: 65.40.67.96

Hi, Emambu! It's been quite a while since we last heard from you; great to see you around again.

Odd little thought: when I visited the local grocery store this morning, they were already starting to put up Halloween decorations. The first week of September isn't over, and already they're putting up the Halloween things. I can just see the surviving Unseelies grumbling about how Halloween is becoming far too commercialized. :)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 5, 2003 10:11:02 PM
IP: 171.75.194.5

Random Pendragon Stuff:

Spacebabie: Much as it's fun to do so, you have to kind of grant some leeway to Char, Eddie, and the rest of the minions. Note, that's not to say view them as blameless or without accountability. But consider their position: through Madoc and the unseelie they've been pretty much stripped of any kind of humanity that's left for them. Is redemption possible? Sure. Hey, if Demona can do it, anybody can. But at the moment, Lucius is really the only option they have. None of the minions have enough skills to survive on their own. And they couldn't rejoin society even if they wanted to. They'd either end up rejected and/or arrested. So what's left? They've made their choice despite whatever tragic comedy lies behind it.

Also, my own opinion on "Rome Eternal" is that the true conflict is with Molly and the Lar (and to an extent between Molly and herself). While a lot of stories are object driven in the search for the grail, this one is character driven. Lucius is simply a convenient means for Molly and the spirit to interact, and for Molly to come to terms with what she's done, and possibly the first admission of guilt that we saw at the end. This is something she'll struggle with. That's the real conflict in this story, in my opinion. Lucius doesn't seem threatening, no, and probably it's better that way; so we don't lose focus on who this is about. But even Gargoyles did this a few times. Take "Bushido" for instance. The physical conflict of dealing with a nutty human wanting to put gargoyles on display is overshadowed by the more pressing concept of honor and how Yama deals with it. I always felt that was the real struggle in the episode. The same with "Kingdom." Fang taking over the labyrinth with two troglodytes and an uncertain Claw did not strike me as particularly threatening. Rather, this was a means for which Brooklyn break through the burden and guilt of being thrust into the leadership role. I felt the story was more for his development as a character than for rescuing Talon and the others.

"Rome Eternal" just struck a similar chord with me. Lucius aren't meant to be threatening because they take a backseat to the real focus which is on Molly. In a way it's better then that they're viewed on a certain comedic level of villainy like Pinky and the Brain or Team Rocket. But that's just my two cents worth.

---Emambu
Emambu - [erikmambu@hotmail.com]
Philadelphia, PA, USA
Friday, September 5, 2003 09:52:05 PM
IP: 208.40.201.76

::a wrestling mat appears in the CR containing a tub filled with mud::

Heather and Spacebabie> Allright, allright. Now I want both of you in tha tub. If you two fight, let's amke it entertaining. Besides, I'm charging admission :)

Andrea> ::purr,s nuggle, kitty kiss:: I hope you feel better. College can be tough, but you'll get through it and then get your own apt and a cuddly kitten or 2 with a decent job from your bachelors.
ghost of Reverend Attila
Cleveland, Hell
Friday, September 5, 2003 09:32:26 PM
IP: 68.158.146.241

Siryn: I haven�t read �Avalon Mists� in the past save for occasionally skimming it, but I liked what I saw of this issue. Great work there.

*** TGS Spoilers***

Belated thanks to everyone who commented on �Out of the Frying Pan� and �Rome Eternal�. I�m sorry to hear that people found �Out of the Frying Pan� confusing. It was a bit of a surprise since for an episode that had to be written quite quickly I had been very pleased with how it came out (not that I�m biased or anything).

Lain: I didn�t realise that about �Ride the Wild Winds�. Good job, then. ;)

Graymonk: Sadly, I think Herne�s really dead this time, although Connor is still alive. Good point about the risk of a silent Herne echoing the �Dinas Bran� fight. And I�m delighted you picked up on the prune juice joke.

Vash: The Grail/emerald connection was something I came across while searching the web. I didn�t make it up. As for the pace of the story � well to some extent it was designed to be confusing, but I was afraid to drag it out too long for fear of people becoming frustrated. I deliberately steered clear of internal monologue in this story, except where I couldn�t really avoid it. The idea was to have a story that was very much narrated, and I wanted the reader to be constantly re-evaluating the threat on Griff�s behalf � from a vengeful gargoyle to a vengeful Surtur and back to the gargoyle again. Seems like my writing really didn't sell that. Oh well.

Spacebabie: You�re right, Lucius and the Minions are goofs (which isn�t to say they might not surprise you one day). But the reason I wanted to do �Rome Eternal� was almost entirely to write them. Where else could you write insults like �insolent sub-literates�? :)

***End TGS Spoilers***
Ed
London, England
Friday, September 5, 2003 05:23:00 PM
IP: 213.187.39.66

Spacebabie> No sh** it was a media stunt but just when the camera holding out a bit on Britany and Madonna kissing with the tongues showing just got me. *shudders* I don't mind females kissing but those... freaks... no.
Heather - [neo_digi@yahoo.com]
Warner Robins, GA, USA
Friday, September 5, 2003 04:45:35 PM
IP: 68.98.197.174

I hate being sick, but I�m almost over it. No more runny nose, no more coughing up lung grease�just feeling lethargic. Nyquil gel caps and Afrin have become my friends

Went through a few past whirlwinds regard my schedule adding another class and dropping one, because it turns out I�m not going to need it�Woot�Have to chat with my Academic professor to make sure I am graduating. If not then I just need another class�which could be anything�but I�ll hoard a few more to make sure I have everything when I file again.

TGS Spoilers
********************************************
Stories have been coming along. I also like the idea of a gargoyle guarding the grail, sad about the lost generation of eggs.

Interesting how Banshee left Molly�s body and was replaced with the spirit. Fey disguises becoming actual mortal bodies, actual mortal bodes without a soul but still�

I loved Rory sticking up for Molly/Banshee�I don�t really liked the idea of Leba/Rory and prefer Molly/Rory.

Now for Lucius�Char and Eddie. These guys don�t strike me as much of a threat�this is how they look in my eyes

Eddie: �What are we going to do tomorrow Lucius?�
Lucius: �The same thing we always do, Find a superior race and help them take over the world.

And after Char And Eddie Are walloped so hard they fly through the air.

Eddie and Char �Here we go blasting off again�

*****************************************End TGS comments

Gside<<<Don't lie, we all know you were looking for Digimon porn.>>>How did you know about those Angemon/Angiwoman pics I have??? ;)

Andrea<<<Cleo's attacking my Peacock feather.>>>Cats love to play with feathers, I don�t know if it has to do with their bird hunting instinct or their love to just bat at long dangly things.

Bud Claire<<<Some bastards highlighted in it�>>>Damn, sorry about it.<<>>but it�s fun

Josh<<<New.>>>Heh�I bought two new books and the total price was 83 bucks. <<<Blogging is a substitute for masturbation.>>>Since you don�t blog that means you�<<<and the other has no final exam and no homework.>>>What the hell do you get graded on?<<<There's a whole generation of upcoming computer users who've never seen a floppy.>>>Like my mother�she just used the net to read her e-mail and chat with friend in American Idol on yahell . Floppies rock, I use them a lot. I write my fics on Zel, upload them to a floppy then load them to the main computer. I might start doing that with my writing assignments. <<<Stupid 8AM classes.>>>I actually feel your pain.<<<She's skanky.>>>We agree on something�that is why I call her Skankulara.<<<I've decided that it's time for TGS to stop using a white background for it's stories. Staring at a white screen is like staring into a light bulb >>>Has anyone else complained???

Heather<<<*shudders and walks out*>>>What didn�t you like about it? The fact that it was an OBVIOUS media stunt??? Or the fact Madonna had to rinse her mouth out with Scope after kissing Christina?

Niahmgold<<<If it's in miso soup as an appetizer, I can stomach it.>>>I�m about the same, if it�s in tiny cubes and floating broth then fine. I can slurp it down with out feeling it in my mouth<<<For me, it was Chris Rock.>>>Dang, I missed it.

Mooncat>>>I wanted to see the VMA for Evanesense too<<<She looked sultry and ultra lovely though, it's a good look on her.>>>I heard she wore Madonna�s gown, wich means�she was DRESSED!!!! I can�t stand that little skank.

Lynati<<<remember when the CR used to be full of posters, like 59 - FIFTY-NINE!! - different people a week?>>>Whoa Dejavu�I mentioned this weeks ago.

Spike<<<I'll copy/paste that information for reference material. I'm hoping to have a story ready for an upcoming AvMists.>>>Great to see you writing again.

Siryn>>>Wow Avmists looks great. You have done a great job.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Friday, September 5, 2003 03:17:10 PM
IP: 4.72.104.113

I feel particulary awful right now. I can't believe my last few posts. I guess I was blinded by anger and frustration. I know that's no excuse, but hey, I gotta explain myself somehow.

I really appreciate the advice and actually being listened to, I honestly do, even if I don't show it. It's not often that happens, and so I'm not used to how to thank people for that. I only wish I could do something.

I know I'm too much of a stubborn complainer, and a sometimes, I just can't help it. It's who I am. People from, day one are always saying "Be yourself", but I don't really WANT to be like this. What's the "right" way for me to act anyway? And anyone that can tell me, what givem them the right to do so? It's like I'm a lost soul or something, I don't know what to do with myself amymore...

I know I've been bugging you all lately, and I am genuinly sorry and ashamed of myself. But I shall plague you all no more. Perhaps you're all better off with me not around to bother you. It's probably the best way I can thank you for what you've given me.

Enjoy Yourselves.
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Friday, September 5, 2003 02:39:50 PM
IP: 130.111.155.35

Well, I discovered last night in one of my usual cartoon-geeky conversations with the guys that they're a bunch of closet Gargoyles fans. Now I'm required to lend them all my VHS's (jeez, these things are what, four, maybe five, years old?), and they were psyched to hear that we do Gatherings. Well, well, well. :)

And now begins my hunt for an animation mentor before next Thursday, someone whom I can ask questions of during 4 points in the year. If anyone here knows of a professional (he/she doesn't have to be award winning, just someone in the advertising/interative media/animation/storyboarding/you name it field) who wouldn't mind a couple of emails this semester, please, let me know ;) Otherwise, I'll continue my hunt with contacts.

Imzadi: <SO IS. Understand the language> Roger, Over.
<No, he always wants something in return> Despite what many people think, I do have some things to offer.
<Try and stop me> Walk the plank!
<WHOA!> It rocked, as did the vaporizing of Magneto :)
<A summer at Apple has shown me flaws in my attitude> Meaning you were too gung-ho, or not gung-ho enough?
<Web design is a MAJOR at your school!? Sheesh, I thought the only schools that "taught" web design were University of Phoenix and ITT Tech. There is a reason most web designers are college dropouts.> Oddly, Web Design isn't even a major here. You have to major in Graphic Design so that they can teach typography, interactive media, web design, print production, systems and programming, and all that fine crap.
 A week without working out takes 20% of what you might have earned in the three months preceeding.
<My site is a crappy text page> :)
<My roommate's business card> Isn't that Cocoa Monkey?
<!@#$ MIT as well> Eh, they're very hippyish there. I'm personally glad I said no to RISD after hearing about some of the hazing crap there.
<especially those assholes who use flash>...It's out there. Deal with it.
<Because it requires NO skills to be a webdesigner> I disagree. Maybe it requires no skills to be a *crappy* webdesigner. But if you're a good one, and they exist, then you have skills.
< know because my profs talk about their thesis projects all the time.> "Hamlet on the Holodeck!" :)
<My prof mocked me this morning for being a tech-savvy person without a printer, but I got to tell him that it was being delivered today> Congrats!
<Nice> You know, thinking back, I could have scored some rather profitable blackmail from a dv cam or a tape recorder...
<Mmmm...memory protection. What's it running on?> Sadly, in the GD labs, old G3's with probably only about 256 to 512 MB RAM, and about thirty heavy-duty programs (MX Studio, Illustrator/Indesign/Photoshop, Quark, Final Cut, etc). Upstairs, it runs on the flatscreen iMacs that have 1GB RAM and connected mini-dv viedo stations. There are also the G4 labs where it runs best (of course), in the 1GB machines with Final Cut/Photoshop/Studio MX. Oddly, all of my classes this semester (with the exception of Interactive Media) are using the PC labs, which boggles me especially in the 2D animation course.
<That job is taken> By the "Student of Demolitions"? ;)

Bud-Clare: <They aren't really your roommates until you want them dead> Or until the divisions of appreciable labor occur, and one does the dishes, one serves as the cart-everyone-around-mobile and person in charge of maintenance (that's me!), and one provides shelving and the muscle ;)
<Isn't that revolting? It's like an orgy, but without the participation> Hehe. I remember the curtain that Athena used to string up across our room...
< read this as "Exhibitionism Development." Hijinx ensued> Oh GOD. I don't need to look at art student exhibitionists ;)
<A naked man... scrubbing a bathtub?> Okay, okay, fine. He can scrub the bathtub clothed. Be naked later ;)
<That's even lower on the food chain than liberal arts.> Actually, I don't think so. Do liberal arts majors have hands-on production skills? In a lot of instances, artists are manual laborers, which can be made more useful than someone who can speak an ancient language ;)

Andrea: I have a question. Are these people your *roommates* (actually sharing the same bedroom), or are they your apartment-mates? If they're just apartment mates, then the one with a boyfriend is very much entitled to have him stay in her bedroom.
<Ok, maybe I made myself a bit unclear about my major, seeing how many of you have misunderstood:> Look, you've finally gotten responses from us concerning your situation, after saying all summer how no one here listens to you. We're giving you advice, and you seem to be getting quite stubborn about it. If you're set in handling your major/college situation in specific ways, then don't post as if you want advice. Be a tad bit more open-minded.
<The stress I'm going through right now and PMS create a dangerous combination> General rule of thumb: If you want respect from people, especially the guys in here, never use PMS as your scapegoat ;)
<What do you think I should do? Note on the phone, or no note?> Do not use notes. Surprise them by confronting them. Every pair of roommates resort to notes at one point or another, and it's just plain stupid. Talk to them as if you shared an office with them, as if this is business.

Kaioto: <Graphic Design majors typically make the best Web Designers> Amen. And for that, it's best to go to a school where you'll be awarded a BFA.
<Businesses don't need to take a risk that you'll quit or otherwise flake out in the middle of a serious project> And that's really what it comes down to.

Desi: <Same things with alot of kids in my old school. Animation: "I can draw all the disney characters, only if I'm looking at something. Duh, I should do animation."> Yes, animation is a tough, tough, tough skill. It requires more research than artistic skill, I find, because you have to interpret so many things (the physics of momentum and walk cycles, lip syncing, sound choreography, simplification of non-essential aesthetic elements). I'm interested in it, still trying at it, but I'm discovering that I'm more inclined to the pre-production stuff and interactive use of animation than I am with feature-length work. Argh ;)
<although he can have redeeming moments.> Yes, he does. Honesty is something to be valued. The delivery is just sometimes harsh ;)
<Fashion design majors are ev-il.> My mom! ;)

Todd: <at least, not any more. In some ways, it's even more disturbing than Demona's rampage in "City of Stone".> Exactly. There are some of my friends who refuse to watch it because they have opinions about it in comparison with the comic Xmen universe but, if you take it at its own value, it's really a very well thought-out show (despite some of the happy-frolicky school-based episodes of the early seasons).

Revel: <Now you sound like Spacebabie ;)> Eek. ;)
<"Well I have to sacrafice the goat somewhere, don't I?"> And then what if they smile and say, "hoorah, another convert!" and proceed to sharpen their knives? ;P

Jim: Hmmm. I know. And it's tempting...
 It's bizarre, because that sounds exactly what a friend of mine in your area is doing, for the same pay. Perhaps you've run into him ;) Have you made a personal website?

Gside: <More than Imzadi.> How about grout?
<Are they good presents? If not that sounds like a good one to trade off.> I got some cheesy jewelry from the confused one. The one in Sacramento always gives my book gift certificates, so she doesn't get traded ;)
<Perhaps not victoriously> When do you find out?
<Heck, even in web development, you're telling a stupid machine how to do something in small steps. Even if it is mostly formating.> Hehe.
<You mean I can eat my brother?> UGH. Just had a *really* bad mental image...

Arrowed!
Niamhgold
Friday, September 5, 2003 12:05:10 PM
IP: 209.143.83.94

andrea>> <<Maybe I made some incorrect asumptions. but who here hasn't ever done that?>> oh oh! me me!! ;) (yeah right ;))<<Now I need some advice regarding my roommates>> my residence roommates were fine.. i never really had much of a problem with them. i had an evil roommate of doom when i first moved out.. but there really wasnt too much i could do about it because i made the mistake of moving into a place owned by her parents. (pssst, dont ever do that)
i have, however, had to deal with mucho psycho landladies. i find the direct approach to be the best one. she phones up, leaves 7 messages on my machine about "needing to talk to me" about something and saying shell call back, or come by.. so instead of waiting, i phone her up and ask her what the hell she wants. that way, its on my terms, not hers. you could try the direct approach with your roommates "yo, whats up with all these lables?" and maybe even, "is that really necessary? it looks kind-of silly.." you could suggeste making a designated area in the fridge for your/their stuff. i did that with one roommate.. top half is hers, bottom half is mine.. that sort of thing. the thing that makes it an issue is that its not "out in the open". if you make a comment like that, it is liable to take the wind out of their sails, if you know what i mean. its better to do it straight away when you notice something... but being straight-up with people (especially people who seem to like playing games like these guys) is often disarming. if you stay quiet, they have the control. if you say something, especially something light-hearted like that, then it will make them feel bad.. and give them no reason to think of you as a "bitch". if/when you do have a meeting with them, be sure to tell them the things that are working, as well as the things that arent. "i like the way were doing this.. do you all agree?" then its not just a big pile of negativity. also, have suggestions like.. "i dont like the way this is going.. could we do this instead?" instead of "this sucks. fix it." if you give them a reasonable alternative to what they are doing, they will be much more likely to agree with you than if you dont ;)
lain
Friday, September 5, 2003 11:45:45 AM
IP: 65.93.85.120

Josh:

>> <<Only about 10-15% is actual coding (this was told by both my professor, and
>> my dad, who low and behold, DOES have a computer degree!>>:

>> That is such a lie. Programming is 90 percent of the project. Anyone can
>> decide on a problem and an implementation. Try getting a 90% on a project
>> with just a suggested solution. Have fun as you discover the truth. When
>> your dad went to school, it was mostly planning because if your code wasn't
>> perfect, you couldn't re-compile and re-run in 10 seconds at home. Now that
>> you can, there's much more debugging involved.

[MARTY] Well, this is somewhat true, and somewhat false.

What is really at issue is the scope of one's role in the project.

If your scope is purely to mill out a program that accomplishes certain specific criteria handed down to you from an external source, then sure, almost everything is just basic coding and algorithms. Note that disdinction between coding and algorithm development. Alogrithms should be established (usually in pseudo-code) well in advance of actual coding - unless of course your queue happens to be a little empty and you've got the time to waste. Of course, code is worthless without algorithms and algorithms are pointless unless you know the code intimately - you'd be surprised at the kind of fundamentals some common programming languages leave out.

If the scope of your project involves satisfying a party with more vague requirements, you're going to have to spend most of the time involved in the project doing communications work. It is a well-documented fact of life that most I.S. project life-cycles have 40-65% of their man-hours tied up in activities that would fall under the label "communications." When you bust out one of those resource pie-charts, you find that code really - DOES - boil down to only 10-15% of the project time resources.

Of course, a lot of this is due to the fact that in business, most managers and clients don't have a - CLUE - what they actually want from the code-monkeys for most of the project. "Can we make this a square ... only circular?" "Our focus group says people find contrasting colors more eye-catching, so can we have a purple UI screen with yellow text?"

* shudder *

However, some of these functions are actually important. Try building a new Information System without interogating the business 8,000,000 times. No sane amount of debugging will be able to fix the mess when a bunch of new elements and relationships completely demolishes the normalization of your database! That's why you have to spend so much time putting the thumb-screws on so many people before you can really write meaningful, useful code for a project.

>> <<What exactly is the reason most web designers are college drop outs?>>

>> Because it requires NO skills to be a webdesigner, and the internet is living
>> proof. BEEFCAKE!

[MARTY] Again, this is sort of a mix of truth with easy-to-draw false conclusions attached.

Yes, it requires NO skills to be a Web Designer. It also requires no skills to be an Artist. Much as a complete tool can throw some HTML on a web-host and be called a Web Designer, a monkey can fling its own poo at a canvas and be called an artist.

Now, if you want to be considered a serious professional as a Web Designer or an Artist, you'd better go wash your hands and expand your skill-set beyond knuckle-dragging.

>> <<most don't have any programming backgroud>>

>> Then why are they CS majors? That's like becoming an engineering major
>> without a strong base in physics.

[MARTY] Well, the real problem is that high schools are a joke in this country. The illiterate have diplomas, just because it would "hurt their self-esteem" to be held back until they actually have the basic skills necessary to be certified. As a result, many college applicants don't have a strong base in ANYTHING, and not a wiff of college prepatory work.

High School should not be a right in the United States. We should take a note from Japan (a modern educations system we helped them build) on this one and make grades 10-12 optional and require enterance exams. Then choose and apply to a high-school with a good program to give you a strong base in whatever you want to go to college or work for.

Heck, that's already how the vocational / technical system works. Say whatever condescending drivvel you want about the vo-tech education system, but it confers useful skills and job training on just about anyone and everyone willing to put in a little effort. That's more than I can say for many high-priced, 4-year Liberal Arts colleges in this country.

At any rate, grades 10-12 should be college or career preparation ONLY. You should have your fundamentals of literature, mathematics, history, and basic sciences done by the 9th Grade. This way, by the time you reach college you aren't wasting time and money on remedial courses in your major. Additionally, grades 10-12 would have more time to confer other "grown-up" skills on older teenagers, like Civics and Personal Management. You shouldn't graduate High School without knowing how to balance a check-book, open a savings account, or dress for a job interview. Being able to boil water without burning down your appartment is another useful skill as well.

Ah well, that's enough ranting from me for the time being.

Later.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Friday, September 5, 2003 10:33:36 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Andrea: Don't sink to their level and don't play their game. The whole thing will deteriorate very quickly. What you need to do is all three sit down and have a rules meeting of some sort. What chores are each expected to do to help out, food sharing policies, use of each other's stuff, with or without permission and the consequences. THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. And guess what, you might have to initiate the meeting. Which means communicating to your roommates. If you guys go on playing the childish games, and no one ever talks to the other, it could go extreme. heh, Remember, they are there when you SLEEP.
Yeah you're scared that you'll set up a bad opinion of yourself, but which opinion would you rather have: (w)itch or doormat? And being assertive for your own good isn't a bad thing. Just be civil about it, you don't need to rant and rave about every thing, choose your words carefully. You're gonna be living with these people for the next, what, week or so, so suck it up, deal with it, lay down the rules as a group (make sure to put something in about friends coming over) and don't care what they think of you because they obviously don't hold you in that high of an esteem anyway. You have nothing to loose really by standing up for yourself and holding a rules meeting. You can even be all official about conducting the meeting, have someone take minutes or something. Do get a list of the rules all down in writing and have everyone sign it. If you need to, put it someplace safe, or maybe give a copy to the RA. Don't be a weenie.

Josh:<You didn't go to my high school, did you?> Not me. Sarcasm, my friend. They prolly did, although I think they were mostly the popular snots from the local Chicago high school suburbs. Fashion design majors are ev-il.
<Math class is a waste. > And I really really am stalling on spending $90 on the stupid book. :( I have so many better things, more useful things to spend it on!

Getting ready for water color class now, but have awesome story to tell when I get a chance!

later
Dezi
Friday, September 5, 2003 10:00:04 AM
IP: 68.58.158.101

Josh - <<Because it requires NO skills to be a webdesigner, and the internet is living proof.>> If that is true, then why don't you have a wonderful page? You said yourself it was crappy. So if it takes no skills, then it's very easy to make a decent page. I agree that ANYONE can make a webpage, given templates and programs. But people like this are NOT web designers.

I have nothing further to say on the CS topic. Anything I WOULD say would be insulting, and I don't want to have to do that. I KNOW what I'm doing, even though I seem like I don't. Maybe I made some incorrect asumptions. but who here hasn't ever done that?

Now I need some advice regarding my roommates (and serious replies only, if you don't have something nice to say to me, then keep your mouth shut). They were actually somwhat nice early yesterday. One introduced me to a friend who had come over. I thought maybe I made judgemnts too quickly. Boy, was I wrong.

You see, when I came home from my last class last night, I wanted to put my drink in the fridge since it was getting warm. And inside the refridgerator was a sign saying "*roommate 1* and *roommate 2*'s. Ask before touching anything" While they DID buy the stuff that's in it now, they have sunk to a new low, as to not trust me enough and to be so damn posessive (I did take one soda, but I ASKED, and was given permission). And when I got on my computer this moring, it wouldn't connect to the internet (they have cable networking). Turns out, my cable was not in all the way. It's impossible for me to kick it or have it fall out, given it's position....I wonder how that happened?

SO my question: The phone belongs to me (I brought it). I am considering playing their game of labeling things as my own, and putting a sign on the phone saying it's mine and you need my permission before using (and note, they use it OFTEN). I really don't want to sink to their level, but I think it might (somewhat respectufully) set the ground that I ALSO live here and that my stuff (as does theirs) deserves to be respected, and that they do not own the room. I almost posted a note on the door too, but decided against that.

What do you think I should do? Note on the phone, or no note?
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Friday, September 5, 2003 08:38:43 AM
IP: 130.111.155.35

Gside> <<Yes.>>
Are you sure that you weren't just not paying attention? Because I'm sure I was clear.

<<But anyway, oral sex is generally tradable for money.>>
That would depend on the parties involved. I want money. And oral sex won't pay my rent.
...Dear god, it probably would. *shudders*

<<but without the large area deadicated to one person.>>
And that's significant how?

<<Assembly.>>
Ours had lots of coding. There was another hardware course, though, with only tiny little programs. And there was Digital Logic... and regular Logic, although that was technically a philosophy course, taught by a math teacher, but probably only taken by CS majors...

<<Were they wacky?>>
Possibly.

<<The wrong kind of jiggling?>>
Hell, yeah.

<<You mean I can eat my brother?>>
Is he worth it?

<>
Not me. I'm retaking Networking this quarter. It's a strange new experience for me.

<>
Guilt is good too, if you can manage it.
_________________________
Josh> <<Smell funny?>>
What?

<<::confused::>>
It was a rude reference to one of the unpleasant side effects of steroids.

<<Willow? Is that you?>>
You're darn tootin'.

<<However, this page is not devoted to me. And I can read about other people on it, if I so choose.>>
But most people read their friends page, not the actual livejournals of their friends, so it's pretty much the same format. (Also, you _do_ have a webpage which is all about you.)

<<Because it's such a narrow-use language.>>
Not really. For a first language, it doesn't matter whether you learn C++ or Visual C++. And at least the visual development studio is semi-decent, unlike what we use at my current school... f*cking unix text editors.

<<You shouldn't have to learn M$' hack on C++ to graduate.>>
Some jobs use visual C++, therefore there's no harm in learning it.

<<That's electrical engineering, not computer science (or Computer engineering, which isn't offered here).>>
Gosh, what would I know? It's not like I'm a CS major or anything.

<<It's all the same.>>
That shows how little you know.

<<Try getting a 90% on a project with just a suggested solution.>>
I did try that. That's why I'm repeating networking. ;)

<<Now that you can, there's much more debugging involved.>>
Which, in extreme cases, leads to madness. Recursion and exhaustion do not mix (safely).

<<Stop hogging my oxygen!>>
Oh, knock it off. Someone has to major in History, so it might as well be someone who'd actually like it.
_____________________
kaioto> <<that's all code-monkey work for an honest-to-god Computer Science major who is never to be trusted with choosing the Hex values for anything on your page.>>
You're failing to take into account female CS majors, who are more likely to have a decent grasp of color schemes. (I had to do a group project once with a bunch of guys who didn't see the problem with using red and green text. Fortunately, they ran out of time and skipped it, because no amount of arguing on my part was able to change their minds.)
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, September 5, 2003 04:17:44 AM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Woot! Shiny new laser printer. Plugged it in, no drivers, and all was well. My prof mocked me this morning for being a tech-savvy person without a printer, but I got to tell him that it was being delivered today. The same prof told us that we should work in groups on the homework "to spare his back from having to carry 60 copies of the homework". Life just got much easier.

Bud-Clare: <<I'm back from my mother's house>>: Smell funny?
<>: Well said.
<<Why would he take steriods? He already looks like an eighth grader>>: ::confused::
<<Paying attention, just not caring>>: That's fine.
<<Again with the not caring>>: Willow? Is that you?
<<You do realize that you start nearly every one of your posts here with something remarkably similar to blogging?>>: Yes. However, this page is not devoted to me. And I can read about other people on it, if I so choose.
<<Why?>>: Because it's such a narrow-use language. Java, C, C++, Assembly, are all multi-platform languages. Teaching MS languages is like teaching Cocoa. Who cares? Well, I suppose it should be an option, but I don't think it should be a required course. You shouldn't have to learn M$' hack on C++ to graduate.
<<You'd think there'd at least be some kind of hardware-ish class with very little coding>>: That's electrical engineering, not computer science (or Computer engineering, which isn't offered here).
<<Stick to the anatomically-possible positions; anything else will end in heartbreak>>: You're no fun.
<<Do you usually remember breathing?>>: He'd remember if he stopped.
<<That's even lower on the food chain than liberal arts>>: It's all the same.
<<It's like an orgy, but without the participation>>: Nice.
<<That's IT, not CS>>: I don't think web design even qualifies as IT. The manager of a web designer is in IT.

Niamhgold: <<installed OS X>>: Mmmm...memory protection. What's it running on?
<<you aren't going to be the best>>: That job is taken.

Andrea: <<Computers haven't ben in common use since the 60's>>: Welcome to Earth. Computers have been in HEAVY use at universities since the 60's. I know because my profs talk about their thesis projects all the time.
<<That's the point of teaching>>: CS classes do not teach "how" to code. They teach implementation. Just like English classes don't really teach you how to speak english. They teach you how to refine your existing skills and tips for better usage.
<<which I HAD to select it as my major to be able go into web design classes next year>>: Are you saying the CS classes are only available to CS majors?
<<Only about 10-15% is actual coding (this was told by both my professor, and my dad, who low and behold, DOES have a computer degree!>>: That is such a lie. Programming is 90 percent of the project. Anyone can decide on a problem and an implementation. Try getting a 90% on a project with just a suggested solution. Have fun as you discover the truth. When your dad went to school, it was mostly planning because if your code wasn't perfect, you couldn't re-compile and re-run in 10 seconds at home. Now that you can, there's much more debugging involved.
<<What exactly is the reason most web designers are college drop outs?>>: Because it requires NO skills to be a webdesigner, and the internet is living proof. BEEFCAKE!
<<Maybe I'll change and decide to major in history>>: Stop hogging my oxygen!
<<Even if I put my foot down and lay down some rules, I'm just going to be labled as a bitch, and I'll be no better off>>: Maybe, but at least then you'd have the other problems resolved.
<<most don't have any programming backgroud>>: Then why are they CS majors? That's like becoming an engineering major without a strong base in physics.

Dezi: <<since I'm skipping math>>: A most productive use of that time. Math class is a waste.
<<There is a kind of thought that some people think they should choose web design because they've surfed around on the internet and they can put pretty colors together, and they know some html or something, so obviously they should go into web design>>: And there are billions of web pages to prove it.
<>: You didn't go to my high school, did you? ;-)
<<although he can have redeeming moments>>: Awww, that's sweet.
<>: Supposedly it has something to do with a few interesting CS problems, but that's about it.

Kaioto: <<let's make some distinctions>>: Thank you.
<<"techies," are possibly the - worse - User Interface Designers>>: especially those assholes who use flash.

Gside: <<oral sex is generally tradable for money>>: Or food.
<<just try to hide>>: Profs can't hide from me!
<>: I don't see why not.
<<Code monkey! Code monkey!>>: My roommate's business card.
<<@!#$ MIT, Princeton, and CMU CS>>: !@#$ MIT as well.

224. I will build machines which simply fail when overloaded, rather than wipe out all nearby henchmen in an explosion or worse yet set off a chain reaction. I will do this by using devices known as "surge protectors".

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Friday, September 5, 2003 02:59:13 AM
IP: 64.170.155.223

Imzadi> <<My roommate is a CS major and every CS class he takes has a massive amount of coding in it>>: Heck, even in web development, you're telling a stupid machine how to do something in small steps. Even if it is mostly formating.
<<Are you unsure?>>: I need to get some references. Luckily, two of the people I asked responded in under an hour.
<<But I think there are other shapes I'd enjoy more>>: Perhaps, but I'd say just differently. I'd tend to be jolly, muscled guys would be boistrous, you might savour...
<<But isn't that kind of useless? Shouldn't it be more conceptual?>>: Maybe, but I'm sure the last few questions will be gone over, as those are the ones I actually had to debug/create new code for.
<<Like an appendix>>: Or an index, even.

Bud Clare> <<No, I want money. Was I unclear?>>: Yes. But anyway, oral sex is generally tradable for money.
<<Office whats?>>: This time when professors promise they'll be in one place, but just try to hide.
<<You do realize that you start nearly every one of your posts here with something remarkably similar to blogging?>>: Anything lettings someone else know your situation is somewhat similar to blogging, but without the large area deadicated to one person.
<<You'd think there'd at least be some kind of hardware-ish class with very little coding>>: Assembly. Oh, but I forgot the probablity.
<>: Were they wacky?
<<A naked man... scrubbing a bathtub? There's a mental image that will haunt me>>: The wrong kind of jiggling?
<<a fine arts degree. That's even lower on the food chain than liberal arts>>: You mean I can eat my brother?
<<IN A YEAR?!? 10 weeks. We get _10_ weeks>>: Hah, I did mine in a day.

Andrea> <<to be able go into web design classes next year>>: But are they classes that teach you how to make pretty things on the web, or classes that teach you how to make places on the web do nifty things? I'd think you'd want the former, and I'd imagine the latter be more likely in a CS department.

Dezi> <<no one here is out to get you>>: It's just that many are unsympathetic (in general).

Kaioto> <<Operating System software. Networking software. Application software. Database software. Machine Language. Assembly Language. Communications Protocols>>: Yay, I've done them all. I was a good little student.
<<Circuits, wires, batteries, cables, fiber optics, transmitters everything>>: Don't forget the computer engineering bit with logic gates.
<<ask yourself whether you want to be a problem-solver, a code-monkey, or an eletronic artist>>: Code monkey! Code monkey!

Andrea> <<Even if I put my foot down and lay down some rules>>: I vote for some not so serious complaining. Ltes them know you don't like it, but it's easy to give up on if they insist.
<<Java is different from other languages>>: Syntatically, yes, but the first few classes won't be doing anything that requires any of it's specific Javaness to do anything.
<<It just makes more sense to TELL us what certain words in the laguage mean/do>>: I can't think of any individual words in Java that do something other than what they sound like. Puting them together, maybe.
<>: @!#$ MIT, Princeton, and CMU CS.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, September 5, 2003 12:45:21 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Andrea - what kind of advisor did you get? In my bus stats, the teacher was very particular about students having a certain level math class to be able to take that class. At the two colleges I've been to, you can't get into computer classes without either taking a basic computer class or passing a test for basic knowledge of computer. Worse yet, in my college experience, you can't get into any classes on computer programming until you've have the basic class on computer programming. Yes, I do believe in requiring a basic class on computer programming or passing a test before getting into any other programming language classes. That puts everybody on an equal playing field for classes on computer languages.

In one of my classes, we're going to assembly language simulator (called LS-2) and later in the semester deal with C. The instructor has figured out that I have some background in computer science and told me that if I get lost, let him know because that means the rest of the class is definitely lost.

kaioto - Thanks for the explanation.

Andrea - one more thing. did you have a nice chat with your advisor about your goals before you worked your class schedule?
DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, September 4, 2003 11:34:59 PM
IP: 204.94.193.38

Ok, I have calmed down a bit. I'm just VERY stressed out. I'm TRYING to make the best of things here, but it's NOT easy, and drastic life changes (such as college life) are very diffucult for me. And it's an even harder since it's the exact opposite of what everyone else (about 3 dozen people) has told me. There's nothing I really CAN do about my rooming sitiation right now. I have to wait 2 weeks (about 10 days, as of today), before I am allowed to request a room change, and seeing this is a temporary, triple, changes are good that we'll be broken down eventually. Even if I put my foot down and lay down some rules, I'm just going to be labled as a bitch, and I'll be no better off. Plus, It's kind of unfair of me, since this room belongs to ALL of us, and I'm not the boss of everything.

I'm trying my best to make everything work out in the end, but that's NOT how things tend to work in the real world. I never excepted everything to just fall into palce the way I wanted it to. But my efforts to actually make things fall into place from my standpoint are futile.

To answer questions, my Java class's only requirement is to take it at the same time as the lab class that does with it (Not 100% sure of you have to be in the CS program as well). Many of us are freshman as well, and most don't have any programming backgroud (other than HTML), even those who do, Java is different from other languages. It just makes more sense to TELL us what certain words in the laguage mean/do, rather than just show us the coding for a program. Although class today helped clear things up, I wasn't alone in my frustration.

As selecting CS as my major, I have a much better change at taking classes related to find out what I REALLY want to do. If I had slected Undecided, I wouldn't have recieved any special "guidance" if you will, on anything related to the CS program, and would probably be taking just general classes (like those taken in high school), instead of more specialized ones. I know I want to do SOMETHING involved with computers. I have no idea exactly what just yet. I need to get a taste of things first. It's the web design CLASSES I want to go into, rather than as a distinct major (sorry for ambiguity on my part, my fault). Java is a prerequisite to that course (hence the reason I'm taking it).

The CS program wasn't the real reason I wanted to go here. I did a few of those survey's for potential schools based on a number of factors (like distance from home, school size, environment around school, price, etc.), and this school popped up more than once. I applied to this and 5 other schools (and to my surprize, got into all 6), and visitied a few. When I saw this one, I felt a certain 'attachment' so to speak, more so than other schools I saw. So, that's why I came. If the CS program here isn't exactly what I "want" (when I find out exactly what i DO want), I can switch schools. My parent's don't mind. This school isn't permanant for me. I don't plan of leaving or staying. Right now, I'm sampling and getting all of the "crap" courses (such as english, calculus, and history) out of the way.

I know maybe the path I'm taking isn't the best one, but I'm taking what I can get for now. You've gotta walk before you run. I know I probably won't be the best, but I don't want or need to be the best. Just trying to be my best is good enough for me.

And I really am genuinly sorry for my recent outbursts. The stress I'm going through right now and PMS create a dangerous combination. Hopefully, in a few days, all what's going on will blow over a bit, and I can relax a bit more.

And Dezi, even if i COULD get the Kim Possible DVD (which I heard was okay, their choice of episodes besides the "lost" one aren't the best ones) on ebay or even if I get to the mall this weekend, I have no way to watch it. No DVD player :( But I DO plan to get it eventually. But since my roommates are out right now, I can watch more garg eps in german and laugh my ass off as loudly as I want without fear. Maybe that'll cheer me up.

And I do thank you all for not wanting to kill me yet.
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Thursday, September 4, 2003 09:34:01 PM
IP: 130.111.155.35

On the subject of Internet Design and Computer Science majors, I thought I'd chime in my $0.02 here since I went through all this junk only a few years ago.

First of all, let's make some distinctions:

Computer Science Major - This is typically all about Software Code.

Seriously, you'll find this major revolves almost exclusively around software. Operating System software. Networking software. Application software. Database software. Machine Language. Assembly Language. Communications Protocols. It is all about the languages computers communicate in. Even the hardware courses are presented from a Software-centric point of view - how does this hardware influence performance of software?

Electronic Engineering - This is the hard-core computer hardware stuff right here. Hardware for the sake of hardware. Circuits, wires, batteries, cables, fiber optics, transmitters everything. While this overlaps with Computer Science, Electronic Engineering is typically less concerned about software performance and compatibility, and more concerned with the laws of physics.

Math - Those who want to delve too far for their own good into algorithms and data abstraction belong here. Computers are giant calculators. If you want the abstracts behind programming language and computational process, go here.

All three of the above majors are best served by going the the closest equivalent to MIT you can find and afford to attend. These are the science part of Computers.

Information Systems (Management or Computer) - For those of us actually interested in using Technology to solve real-world problems and maybe make some money, the IS major is where to be. You learn the basics of the major types of software you might need to develop, and also the fundmentals behind choosing the right tool for the job. Algorithms, Syntax, and Databasing will mix together with Project Management, User Interface Design, and Documentation.

Information Systems is best learned at a Business School that has a good reputation for being on-the-ball when it comes to Computer Technology.

Information Technology - This is sort of the Minor version of Information Systems. Typically you learn about what existing tools serve your Major best, and don't get that involved in project management, coding, or systems work. You can often find Internet-based courses in an IT minor.

For an IT minor, pick a school that specialized in your major, then select the IT courses that best compliment it.

The best course for folks focusing on Web Design, from my experiences working in a professional Web Design stuido and graduating from a CIS program, is to get a Graphical Design / Graphic Arts major with an IT Minor based on Internet course.

There simply isn't enough - substance - to major in Internet Design. The Design end of Web Sites is 90% Graphic Design, 10% Technical Skills. HTML is so simple it hardly qualifies as a language. "How to use Photoshop and Flash" is not part of a serious Computer Science major. Not surprisingly, "techies," are possibly the - worse - User Interface Designers in the entire universe. "Arties" are the best at UI Design, but usually lack an understanding of the limitations and capabilities of the technology at hand. "Arties" who know how Internet Applications function are the idea Web Designers.

All the other aspect of Web Sites are governed by Internet - Development - not Design. Server Pages, DHTML, XML, Database Interfaces, Server Software - that's all code-monkey work for an honest-to-god Computer Science major who is never to be trusted with choosing the Hex values for anything on your page.

In summary,

Graphic Design majors typically make the best Web Designers
Computer Science majors typically make the best Internet Developers
Information Systems majors typically make the best Project Managers

Keep that in mind when you ask yourself whether you want to be a problem-solver, a code-monkey, or an eletronic artist.

Beyond that, I'll note that my father took a big shine to computers back in college in the early 1970s. He found all the fundamentals housed in the Eletronic Engineering and Mathematics departments back at UMass. I'm sure you could've actually gotten into more computer courses at more technologically-oriented private schools like MIT and CalTech. The real issue is that Computer Technology wasn't an academic department unto itself until the 80s.

Oh, and the issue about college drop-outs and Internet Designers has to do with how simple HTML is. Still, drop-outs tend to find the Design market unwelcoming since the Dot-gones died out. Firms can be discriminating, and tend to view a resume without a college degree as indicating the applicant is either undisciplined, an under-achiever, or just a quitter. Unless one has a - significant - tenure with a referring firm, oen won't be able to score an decent Internet job without a degree in this low-demand market no matter how l33t one's skillz are.

Businesses don't need to take a risk that you'll quit or otherwise flake out in the middle of a serious project.

Ah well, that's my ramble for the day.

Oh, and I enjoyed the recent Pendragon episode. I especially enjoyed Merlin's argument, even if it felt a little bit rushed. I think the speach could have been paced and described a bit more for a better effect. It didn't feel like Merlin was beating me over the head with an irrefutable argument so much as some ten-year-old kid was givingmeanexpositiowithouttakingabreath.

Anyway, that was just my feeling on the matter. Keep up the fine work.

kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, September 4, 2003 02:45:34 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Andrea: I agree with Desi. We're not targeting you, but saying that you have to adapt. It's Darwinism in its most basic form. And perhaps you're not inept at your major, but you certainly have to understand that you aren't going to be the best. Computer science will be difficult. Dorm living is difficult. If you thought that college was all about burying yourself in a book and thinking things will work around you, you're going to learn quickly that you were wrong.
Niamhgold
Thursday, September 4, 2003 02:41:18 PM
IP: 206.41.206.61

hee hee gotta jump in here, this looks like a little fun, since I'm skipping math and all.

Josh: <"taught" web design were University of Phoenix and ITT Tech> Actually, the first school I went to was the Illinois Institute of Art in Chicago (part of Art Institute International, and not the musuem one, this one's commercial art). The majors offered there were animation, graphic design grr....fashion design snots...grrr.. culinary, and ...web design! But they have taken it from a more artistic point of view rather than a strictly computer point of view, focusing on the look of the page, and giving the students the skills to implement their designs. One of my closest friends is in this program, and he is doing quite well, graduating soon. He's a weirdo, though, so it'll be fun to see what he comes up with.

Andrea: Re-lax. On everything. RELAX. (go get the Kim Possible DVD, it might help). What school are you going to anyway? And if you really want to do web design, why didn't you pick a school that offers it? (honest question) What were your motivations behind picking the school you did? Proximity? Family tie or affiliation? Major?
<they should tell us HOW to code, instead of just tell us to do it. That's the point of teaching. > Did you miss some kind of remedial or prereq? Talk to your teacher, and talk with classmates, make some friend connections that could help you out. If they are good people, stick with them. That friend I mentioned in my response to Josh was one of those first friends I made, and I value his friendship so much. Besides, later, you can trade books with people and stuff so you don't have to sell back a $90 book for $15.
<What exactly is the reason most web designers are college drop outs?> There is a kind of thought that some people think they should choose web design because they've surfed around on the internet and they can put pretty colors together, and they know some html or something, so obviously they should go into web design. Same things with alot of kids in my old school. Animation: "I can draw all the disney characters, only if I'm looking at something. Duh, I should do animation." Fashion Design: "I always shop at the best stores, with my parents credit card, and, like, I always match, and, like, look so hot. I should, like, be a fashion designer." Then they realise its harder than they thought and drop out. Besides, Josh was being something of a butthead, the essence of Josh (although he can have redeeming moments.)
<My name has the exact link to that page if you don't believe me. > Ok that's getting a little defensive, no one here is out to get you.
 Exactly. And no one will fault you for it. I changed my major, and I had to change my school to do it, since my school was so specialized. Now, I'm a communication major, doing news video, love it, and excell at it. If you had talked to me during high school, when all bets were on Chicago, I would have thought my current present was crazy nonsense,.. Why on earth would I ever voluntarily go to Indiana?! (Besides the fact that my mom couldn't get past what she thought of as me dropping out of school rather than TRANSFERRING to another.) And I don't even go to the school with the best reputation for comm departments here (that's Ball State), but I go to a smaller school, with a small department, that offers lots of opportunities and the teachers work hard to make it the best they can. And I work hard to make sure I know what's going on, and get a grasp of everything. It's not all on the teacher's heads, but you still have to tell then what you want out of your education. They prolly think that all of you in their class want to go work for Bill Gates or something, and don't realize that you want to do something a little off center, but they could prolly work with you and help out. I want to do news video, and I'm only like one of five people in the department that really want to do that, prolly less than that. I came into the school, told my teachers what I plan to do, what is important to me, and they helped guide me there. Good deal.
<At my school, it's only been here since 1993> That's still ten years. Long enough to develop a good department, if they are dedicated to it and take it seriously.
<Computers haven't ben in common use since the 60's, it wasn't until the 90's that it happened> Well...kinda they have, in certain uses, not just buying things on ebay. (I'm not a CS student by any means, but I don't think ebay has much to do with CS...the rest of you can take this one...)
<Gee, I seem to remember it was the late 80's/early 90's being the ONLY kid in elementary school who had and knew how to use a computer. > In day care (mid 80's)and grade school (late 80's) we would play Sticky Bear and use the paint shop thing on old apples to make pretty pictures. This in a small midwestern poor factory town.
Roommates: They suck. Deal with it and stand up for yourself, if they are being truly cruel, then report them and get a room change, but you will have to adapt to people and make yourself heard sometime. They are not obligated to be your friends. They aren't even obligated to pay attention to you. My first set of roomies didn't pay attention to me, unless a bill was do or unless I forgot to read their minds and take out the trash when they expected it to be out (luckily my only task). They might not even be the type of people you wanna live with. But they have adapted to their new situation with you being a mouse. Make them adapt to the living situation with you as you. Otherwise you'll be miserable.

While I'm at it:
Leo: Johnny Depp can say whatever he wants, in my book, and it'll be a shame if he gets Dixie Chicked on "...Mexico" because of it. America needs to be told what it doesn't want to hear sometimes, and it should listen. Heh, already, though, "Pirates" has made so much money that upset people can't hurt it. weee! (and yes, I plan to see "Once upon a time in Mexico.")

Ok enough of that. We got seven inches of rain here in a 24 hour span over labor day and I get to go shoot footage for our news show (obviously we're not live local and late breaking).

later!
Dezi
Thursday, September 4, 2003 01:55:22 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

Ok, maybe I made myself a bit unclear about my major, seeing how many of you have misunderstood:

1) I never said I DIDN'T want to learn to program. I DO, but that's NOT my primary objective.

2) Just because computers have been around a while DOES NOT mean every university has had a decent computer sciecne program since day 1. At my school, it's only been here since 1993. That's NOT a long time in comparassin to other majors. Computers haven't ben in common use since the 60's, it wasn't until the 90's that it happened. Gee, I seem to remember it was the late 80's/early 90's being the ONLY kid in elementary school who had and knew how to use a computer.

3) I KNOW coding is the only was to learn it. I was pissed at that first class since they should tell us HOW to code, instead of just tell us to do it. That's the point of teaching.

4) Web Design isn't a major (at least not yet) at my school. The closest is Computer Science, which I HAD to select it as my major to be able go into web design classes next year. And funny how all the web design classes are part of the computer science program...

5) Yes, there IS more to CS than just coding (though yes, the MAJORITY of CS school programs focus on programming. But that isn't the entire thing). Even if it were just that, most of the work behind the creation of a program is problem solving and prep work. Only about 10-15% is actual coding (this was told by both my professor, and my dad, who low and behold, DOES have a computer degree!)

Also, let me quote Deartment of Computer Science: "It is hard for me to describe the kind of job you might obtain with a degree in computer science, since there is quite a variety. Computer science is clearly the dominant technology of our time with applications in all sorts of areas, from graphics productions used in movies and television and advertising, to database applications in practically every company of any size, to real time systems controlling robots and other devices, to communications, and so on and so forth." My name has the exact link to that page if you don't believe me.

6) What exactly is the reason most web designers are college drop outs? Where did you hear that from? Even if that's true, it doesn't apply to everyone. Besides, I said I WANT to go into web design. Doesn't mean I WILL. I'm only a freshman, I can change my mind. Maybe I'll become a programmer. Maybe I'll change and decide to major in history. I can change schools if I want to. Nothing is set in stone.

7) Not ALL CS programs (or any other major, for that matter) have EXACTLY the same things involved. At one school, CS was focused on primarily Engineering. At another, programming. This one, it's a broader range. That's why I picked this school over others.

Trust me, I did my research, I KNOW about the CS program at my school better than everyone else here (seeing how I'm actually IN the program). I do apologize for not being clear before, and hopefully I made things clearer.
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Thursday, September 4, 2003 09:57:51 AM
IP: 130.111.155.35

Amen, our school finally got its act together and installed OS X! :)
Niamhgold
Thursday, September 4, 2003 08:55:01 AM
IP: 206.41.206.61

Yay! I'm back from my mother's house. Too bad school starts on Monday.
__________________
Gside> <<You want in, then?>>
No, I want money. Was I unclear?

<<let alone steroids.>>
Why would he take steriods? He already looks like an eighth grader.
_______________________
Josh> <<and anabolic steroids (just seeing if you're paying attention).>>
Paying attention, just not caring.

<<I've killed blackmailers before.>>
And I've killed people who kill blackmailers.

<<True, but the idea here is to verify my statements.>>
Again with the not caring.

<>
I'm not surprised. Your doubt changes nothing, however.

<<Going to office hours occasionally helps this.>>
Office whats?

<<My guess would be that you aren't hot enough.>>
That makes two of us, it seems. Totally beside the point, though, since many of the people who get money thrown at them unjustly are also not "hot." Moreover, they're people that I just don't like, so it really bothers me.

<<In any case, blogs are lame.>>
You do realize that you start nearly every one of your posts here with something remarkably similar to blogging?

<>
Why?

<<and every CS class he takes has a massive amount of coding in it.>>
Every one? That's weird, actually. You'd think there'd at least be some kind of hardware-ish class with very little coding.
_______________________
Jaden> <<unfortunately most of involves things that are considered impossible.>>
Stick to the anatomically-possible positions; anything else will end in heartbreak. *giggles maniacally*

<>
Do you usually remember breathing?
____________________
Niamhgold> <<The only problem is a massive leak in my kitchen sink that *better* be fixed tomorrow>>
I wish you many happy buckets.

<<Exhibition Development>>
I read this as "Exhibitionism Development." Hijinx ensued.

<>
A naked man... scrubbing a bathtub? There's a mental image that will haunt me... Gah.

<<That could be a good thing for her, no?>>
No.

<<Ummmm...soon, a BFA in Illustration/Animation?>>
Nah, then I'd be mocked for having a fine arts degree. That's even lower on the food chain than liberal arts.
________________
Andrea> <<now I'm starting to hate them both.>>
They aren't really your roommates until you want them dead.

<<the other roomate is having her boyfriend spend the night this weekend!>>
Isn't that revolting? It's like an orgy, but without the participation.

<<Specifically, I want to go into web design>>
That's IT, not CS.

<<It's a fairly new program almost anywhere>>
*blinks*
___________________
Jim R.> <>
Mine was demonic. There were "Lord of the Flies" analogies made.

<<and expect a final product in a year that does close to what they want it to do.>>
IN A YEAR?!? 10 weeks. We get _10_ weeks.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Thursday, September 4, 2003 06:15:35 AM
IP: 66.67.201.63

I'm so out of shape. I was at the gym today working shoulders and chest, and I can barely lift half of what I was lifting at the start of the summer. Gotta fix that.

And in other (perhaps more important) news, Universal's music group will be cutting CD prices to 12.98 MSRP to combat piracy and increase sales. UMG gets an B for effort, but an F for implementation. Big 5 music companies need to stop screwing the artists AND stop threatening their consumers with lawsuits (the RIAA will be filing subpoenas against several hundred music swappers in the next few weeks, after they force the ISP's to identify these people). Anyway, it looks like NBC (a division of General Electric) is in discussions to purchase UMG from Vivendi. I found this choice quote on slashdot's post of the article:

"General Electric isn't in the business of filing baseless lawsuits -- they're in the business of making money. Maybe they'll be the ones to blow the lid off the CD price scam once and for all". Here's hoping. Anyway, if you're an avid MP3 downloader, my advice to you would be to turn off Kazaa. Stop sharing MP3's. You can justify it any way you want, but the bottom line is that right now it IS a violation of US copyright laws and you can be fined MILLIONS of dollars. The whole point of this RIAA campaign is to put fear into YOU, by suing "the guy next door" or "the kid in my dorm".

Todd: <<In some ways, it's even more disturbing than Demona's rampage in "City of Stone">>: Yeah, Demona wasn't supposed to be one of the good guys.

Andrea: <<Maybe that's what you've been doing>>: I have no idea where you would get that impression. I do not download MP3's from anywhere.
<<given your experieice with computers (I looked at your site)>>: My site is a crappy text page. How would you conclude "experience with computers" from that crappy site, which I *SAID* I didn't write up myself (bottom of the main page).
<<you should KNOW there is more to computer science than just pure programming>>: 1) I'm a civil engineer. 2) Uh, no there isn't. My roommate is a CS major and every CS class he takes has a massive amount of coding in it. Also, that whole sentence made absolutely no sense.
<< It's a fairly new program almost anywhere (within the last few years)>>: You're kidding, right? Computers are 60 years old. People have been programming at universities since the 60's.
<>: Web design is a MAJOR at your school!? Sheesh, I thought the only schools that "taught" web design were University of Phoenix and ITT Tech. There is a reason most web designers are college dropouts.
<<can we at least TRY not be insensitive?>>: Nope, sorry. You have me confused for someone else.
<<it just makes it 10x worse when someone rubs it in and insults me>>: And?

Taleweaver: <>: Really? I'm totally disappointed with Gambit. He looks like a little twerp. I mean, really, scrawnier than I am. At least in the original cartoon, our heros had some meat on them.

Revel: <<But he never pushed us to want to ride>>: There's a reason they call motorcycle riders "organ donors".
<<Sounds like someone needs to learn a new hobby>>: I agree. Suggestions? Something I can do with limited space. I guess I could get into video games.
<>: Printers are much smaller and lighter than they used to be. But this particular model is not 6 lbs, that's for sure.

Fire Storm: <<drill>>: I'm really annoyed that guy didn't die.

Leo: <<This is even better than if Jack turned ot to be a gay in the sequel>>: What is this "turned out...in the sequel"?! Did you SEE the same movie I did?!

Jim R: <<never let anyone tell you that CS is not for Mac users>>: Ironically, CS is one of the few technical programs where Mac use shouldn't matter at all. I enjoy lording my easy wireless access over the wintel users. Everyone else seems to have so much more trouble with it than I do.
<<Visual C++ programming>>: I can't believe you'd take a course that requires this. I can't believe schools OFFER courses that require this.
<<Powerbooks have been cropping up in CS departments>>: Of course. They run unix.
<<Josh is still promoting Mac advocacy>>: Not so much anymore. A summer at Apple has shown me flaws in my attitude.
<>: 12"?

Gside: <<Perhaps not victoriously>>: Are you unsure?
<<Enjoy your shape>>: I do. But I think there are other shapes I'd enjoy more.
<<the programming test at my interview>>: That's very interesting. But isn't that kind of useless? Shouldn't it be more conceptual?
<<More than Imzadi>>: Yup! I don't do windows.
<<What good's a soul anyway?>>: Like an appendix.

223. I will install a fire extinguisher in every room -- three, if the room contains vital equipment or volatile chemicals.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Thursday, September 4, 2003 02:10:12 AM
IP: 64.170.155.223

And I have returned. Perhaps not victoriously.

Imzadi> <<What company?>>: Medical database company called Meditech.
<<I'll be starting the former. I'm a bit tired of being scrawny>>: Enjoy your shape, as they are all needed. Look at Laurel and Hardy.

Andrea> <<why not teach the damn class as if they have NO clue what it is!>>: What other kind of homework should they have? And how long does it take to be able to code Hello World? Heck, the programming test at my interview was in a proprietary language I've never seen before.
<<Java is different from, other languages>>: Not that much for what'll be covered in an introductory course.

Niamhgold> <<Do you do windows?>>: More than Imzadi.
<<a crazy aunt in Brockton who sends me birthday gifts on my brother's birthday>>: Are they good presents? If not that sounds like a good one to trade off.
<<And good luck beating Ultimicia without a buttload of Pheonix Downs>>: Feh, I have Chocobo World. All the stat boosters I can handle.

Imzadi> <<he always wants something in return>>: What good's a soul anyway?

Andrea> <>: That's more an art thing than a compter thing.

Revel> <<and the BIG floppy drives>>: Those aren't the BIG floppy drives, they're only the big floppy drives.
<<Well I have to sacrafice the goat somewhere, don't I?>>: It'd be a better world if more people said their prayrs, you know.

Fire Storm> <<Has anyone heard of this news story?>>: Nope, but reminds me of Phineas Gage. At least the tamping rod (one meter long, 3cm diameter) went all the way through his head.

Welcome back Jim.
<<I'll warn you now, algorithms are going to be nasty>>: But Dijkstra is my friend.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:54:15 AM
IP: 68.39.173.60

Siryn - You did a great job of putting together the new issue of Avalon Mists. Really, you did a wonderfull of putting everything together. I am very, very thankfull for all those put work into making something I can enjoy reading.

DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:29:22 AM
IP: 204.94.193.43

Leo> Hey, don't diss the Sparrow, man! I'm a rupublican and all but with this article... He's right. He was accurate but a bit rude. Oh well. He doesn't really care what other people think of him anyway.
Heather - [neo_digi@yahoo.com]
Warner Robins, GA, USA
Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:23:17 AM
IP: 68.98.197.174

Jim: Welcome back! So you've landed yourself an internship in actionscripting, huh? Congrats!
Niamhgold
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 11:11:53 PM
IP: 209.143.83.85

Fire Storm - Did you get the email I sent you?
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 10:49:54 PM
IP: 204.94.193.19

Jim : Welcome back to the room.
Lynati
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 10:24:07 PM
IP: 66.140.73.17

Wow. Been awhile since I posted here. Guess I should try to post in here a little more often.

Andrea> Just happened to read over your post. And I must say, welcome to the wonderful world of CS. A few words of wisdom from a fellow senior CS major:

- Your first impression of computer science is typical of most freshmen. Most of the time, college professors will assume (even for the simplest of introductory courses) that you already know things such as the difference between a megabit and megabyte, maybe some simple binary arithmetic, and having used at least ONE programming or scripting language (more than just a few lines of code too). After all this is computer science. If you didn't already understand SOME of it (or acquire it from someone else), then it's probably not for you.

- Crack down on memorizing lots of the basic stuff. Because though it may seem pointless and boring now, it's going to become expected for classes down the road if you stick with it. Most profs don't go back through material like what say, 10^6 represents or the number of milliseconds it takes to transfer a 25MB picture file at 1024x1280 pixels on a 10Mbps ethernet. Particularly things having to do with computer organization and algorithms are useful to remember at times. (Yes, I'll warn you now, algorithms are going to be nasty).

- You'll probably make some friends fast, because you'll need them. Group work in CS is alot of what makes it possible to do some of the stuff I have done. But don't look down on it, group work is generally fun and easier when you can divide up the project (and to laugh at others if they don't hold up to their end of deal, although this usually causes the whole group to suffer in the long run, I have seen it).

Once you get through the drudgery, than it's not so bad. About half of CS is programming. And about half the programming you do, you'll do in a group. I found Software Engineering to be one of few practical real-world courses and very fun. Our group was given at task of writing a faculty scheduling program that works with a database. Basically the prof was more like a manager, they don't teach at all, they just come along every once in a while, ask about your progress, inspect your completed work, and expect a final product in a year that does close to what they want it to do. And the project is not typically for the department at all, it's for an outside customer, only difference is you're not getting paid for it. ;) Operating Systems and Networking are interesting too.

Also, take an internship. My internship rocks, in fact I'm still doing it as a part-time job over the semester. I write the Flash MX code (actionscript, sort of like javascript) for animated pump simulations designed for Shipco Pumps (www.shipcopumps.com) and get paid $9.50/hour. It will actually be released as a product in the near future for the public and its representatives.

So, I hope that helps a bit and you're a little familiar of what to expect. Oh, one more thing if you prefer Mac, never let anyone tell you that CS is not for Mac users. I used to think that until I started to become more productive at doing the same things on my Mac than most of the Linux-elite wannabes, and the "we-only-do-Windows" profs. With the minor exception of a little Visual C++ programming, everything else (especially most of the required Unix work you'll be fluent in a few years) I have been able to accomplish on a Mac since I started college (plus I can run Photoshop too!) I've noticed Powerbooks have been cropping up in CS departments.

---------------------------------------

I see Josh is still promoting Mac advocacy. I try to do my part here and there too. =) I finally dipped into the savings back in February to buy a Powerbook (my first laptop ever) a few months ago. Awesome little thing.
Jim R.
Shippensburg, PA
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 10:10:00 PM
IP: 65.41.56.23

::rereads the article::

Well, maybe not as good as if Jack turnes out to be gay, but still..... :)
Leo
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 09:05:40 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Fire Storm:>Damn you!!! I was going to post that story!! :p

No matter. Here's one for all of you females who keep cooing over Jack Sparrow. >:-P

(*snickers* This is even better than if Jack turned ot to be a gay in the sequel)

Isn't it a shame? :p *more snickering*
Leo
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 09:02:13 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Josh and Taleweaver: Thanks for the info.
mark
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 07:55:51 PM
IP: 67.67.113.212

Has anyone heard of this news story?

Sends shivers up my spine just THINKING about it!
Fire Storm
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 07:35:53 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Hmm, I have noticed my consitancy of posting has gone down a lot. Oh well it happens.
Labor Day was uneventful. Went home to get a warm meal and sleep in my bed and water my cactuses though they look like they are dying, probably because when I'm not there no one waters them. Spent most of that Monday sitting with my Dad and watching American Chopper, and all the motorcyle stuff on the History channel.
This becons a question in me that I have always asked but not sure why it is the way it is. How come I never was very enthusiastic to want to learn how to ride motorcycles? My dad has two. He has ridden motorcycles longer than he has driven cars. But he never pushed us to want to ride. Maybe becuase he didn't want us to get seriously hurt, I dunno, just me musing.

Siryn- AvMists looks great! The set up is very interesting adn I'm excited to do the drawing and photo challenges. The where are they now was very interesting too.

Josh-<<Another useless day of nothingness.>> Sounds like someone needs to learn a new hobby. <> I thought newer technology was making things lighter?

Niamhgold- <and heaven forbid those yellow-on-blue apps>> I remember the old Apple II's my elementary school use to have with the green on black and the BIG floppy drives. <<That's what I meant. I need a naked male maid ;) And I can just be naked ;)>> Now you sound like Spacebabie ;)

Andrea- Wait till they leave one day then go buy a sheept of plastic, black candles, salt and set it all up across the room. And when they return and ask what you are dooing tell them "Well I have to sacrafice the goat somewhere, don't I?"

Lynati- I already pretty much boycott Disney. Can't remeber the last time I bought a product of theirs or rented one of their movies. Just always borrowed them that someone else bought to line the Mouse God's pocket. But yeah that sucks. It sucks for those out fo a job becuase now they will be looking for jobs of their skill like story board or conceptual design at other companies. What I was going after. :P

"Is it suppose to vibrate like that?"
-Can't count how many peopel have said this to me while riding in my car.-
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, tx
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 05:53:13 PM
IP: 129.120.237.177

Todd: Trogdor! Sad but true: http://www.gamespy.com/comics/nodwick/trogdor/trogdor.htm or click my name-link.

And Homestarrunner.com rocks ;)
Niamhgold
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 01:46:23 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

Todd: Trogdor is a character from the now-famous webcartoon "Strongbad emails" at homestarrunner.com. He's a dragon who burninates (because that sounds cooler than "burning").
Josh
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 12:45:26 PM
IP: 64.170.155.223

Taleweaver> My jaw dropped of what Rogue did. It is nice to see though that even with this show being for "younger viewers" that the writers can push buttons with these kinds of themes. I miss those kinds of shows...
Heather - [neo_digi@yahoo.com]
Warner Robins, GA, USA
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 11:04:30 AM
IP: 68.98.197.174

Hello mark

What you're experiencing is the fall season shuffle. Most networks reschedule to make room for new shows and swap out older ones. Gargoyles is still on. They moved it to an hourlong weekday block. Here in the Pacific timezone, it comes on from 8:30 pm to 9:30 pm. Hope that helps.

X-men Evolution> I was out of town, but have finally saw it on tape. Both Magneto and Mystique out of the picture? Say it ain't so? Shocking and yet not surprising on Rogue's part.

I really liked the confrontation between Colossus and Magneto. I also like Gambit every time he shows up. If I could choose a team, I'd want to be on Magneto's. They at least we getting stuff done. Xavier's bunch seemed content to twiddle their thumbs until Apocalpys (sp?) made his next move.

See ya next time
Taleweaver
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 10:55:27 AM
IP: 24.205.177.107

Josh - << Then how retarded are you to pick computer science as your major? Did you think your degree would be granted by you sitting around all day downloading MP3's from Kazaa?>> Maybe that's what you've been doing, since given your experieice with computers (I looked at your site), you should KNOW there is more to computer science than just pure programming. It's a fairly new program almost anywhere (within the last few years), and isn't very specialized. Specifically, I want to go into web design, but to do that and take classes for that I need to take OTHER classes (such as Java) as a prerequisite, and I have to be part of the Computer Science program, which is exactly what I did. So I'm NOT "retarded", I did exactly as I should have. Besides, I can change my major anyway if I want to. It's NOT set in stone.

I am very sorry about that outburst yesterday. I had to let it out somehwere before I went mad. I'm sorry it had to be here. But if I does happen again, can we at least TRY not be insensitive? I'm having a bad enough time as it is, despite my many efforts on the contrary, and it just makes it 10x worse when someone rubs it in and insults me.
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 10:17:36 AM
IP: 130.111.155.35

SIRYN - Thanks for the post, and thanks for all your webweaving to get AvMists back up!

And I second her posting, Everyone! Please send us feedback, positive or not... we want to make this the best zine going today, so be sure to drop us a line on anything. Tell is what's working, and what's not... after all, this is a production that is meant for YOU to enjoy.

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr. - [ssobotka33616_AT_yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL, USA
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 09:03:59 AM
IP: 24.164.29.133

I've got to admit, Mystique's fate (if nothing else) has proven that "X-Men: Evolution" isn't the "watered-down" show that people initially feared that it would be - at least, not any more. In some ways, it's even more disturbing than Demona's rampage in "City of Stone".

I was watching the repeat of the series finale of "Buffy" last night, and was curious about one bit. In the scene where some of the Scoobies are playing Dungeons & Dragons with Andrew as the DM, there was a mention of somebody called "Trogdor the Burninator" as the monster whom they were fighting. I recall that, the last time that the episode was aired, there was a lot of excitement in various forums where the scene was discussed about Trogdor's mention. Could somebody tell me who this Trogdor is, please?
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 08:22:21 AM
IP: 171.75.194.68

Another useless day of nothingness. I'm supposed to receive a new printer soon, but UPS tracking reads the package as only weighing 5.8 lbs. I don't know any laser printers that small.

Having morning classes is nice because I'm done with them by the time my roommate wakes up. Of course, waking up early bites knob.

Todd: <<XE spoilers>>: Thanks!
<<pushes the statue over a cliff and smashes it>>: WHOA!

Dezi: <<They said its out for sale on Sept 2 (today, last I checked). That's all I heard of it. Good luck>>: Hopefully Costco will have it.

Andrea: <<College sucks and It's only the first day of classes>>: Get over it, you've got four more years.
<<My roomates seem to think I am invisible>>: Then make noise.
<<I'm no worse off than I am right now>>: You need to put your foot down and not let people get away with shit.
<<first assignment next week already has (simple) programming in it>>: Welcome to college.
<<why not teach the damn class as if they have NO clue what it is>>: Because that isn't the point. If you don't know Java, you're supposed to pick it up.
<<Some of us have never progamed before>>: Then how retarded are you to pick computer science as your major? Did you think your degree would be granted by you sitting around all day downloading MP3's from Kazaa?
<<all my life people have refused to agnowledge me simply because I'm short and ugly>>: Hobbits left this land long ago.

DPH: <<Change your default colors on your web browser since the coding for the stories doesn't specify the background color>>: Good call.

Mark: yes. They were running a marathon.

Niamh: <<so isn't>>: SO IS. Understand the language.
<<Don't you think I'll have better luck with Satan?>>: No, he always wants something in return.
<<At least I don't have to sign any non disclosures>>: That's a condition of my job, not my OS.
<< Is that akin to getting a "point"?>>: No, because I can't give points.
<<You can't grunt like a pirate until the 19th!>>: Try and stop me.
<<Metal underwear, baby>>: That must chafe.

Off to sleep.

222. I reserve the right to execute any henchmen who appear to be a little too intelligent, powerful, or devious. However if I do so, I will not at some subsequent point shout "Why am I surrounded by these incompetent fools?!"

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 03:11:13 AM
IP: 64.170.155.223

Avalon Mists> *looks at the Casting Call page* Johnny Depp as Jackal?! *faints then pops her head up* Well he does like doing quirky roles... I have to think on this one... It might work.
Heather - [neo_digi@yahoo.com]
Warner Robins, GA, USA
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 02:36:31 AM
IP: 68.98.197.174

Avalon Mist is (finally) Up!

A few articles still need to be finished, but I didn't want to delay the site any longer. They'll be up in the next few days.

Please enjoy, and feedback is VERY welcomed. Please let us know if you like something, hate something, or have ideas on what else to put in it!

Thankyou to everyone who contributed for this issue!!
Siryn - [<--Avalon Mists]
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 01:07:36 AM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Todd > that Mystique scene shocked the heck out of Becca and me. I agree, be interesting to see what they do next.

Site update > added a new fanart pic of Harry the Hammer, as well as the first look at the cover for the second Silver Doorway book! Clickie or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html for the latest.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Wednesday, September 3, 2003 12:38:04 AM
IP: 208.187.14.83

Andrea: Having been in the same boat, it's best if you talk to your roommates *before* bringing anything up with your RA. You need to be the confrontational sort to survive in a college dorm setting, otherwise you'll lock yourself into a miserable time. Other than that, I offer you no more advice--college is simply a learning experience, and 85% of that experience is learning how to handle life outside of the classroom. And you're the only one who can control how everything gets juggled. An RA, sadly, is just another student. You can't put your faith in them above yourself.
<So WHY did I pay a ton of money to take the damn course If I'm not really being taught?> Welcome to the art school conundrum--at 30,000 a year ;)

Ugh, my neck still hurts from move-in. This is silly.

Imzadi: <Staring at a white screen is like staring into a lightbulb - a pain in the ass.> But so isn't staring at white writing on a black screen. For me, that was always a pain in the ass on the older PC text editors (and heaven forbid those yellow-on-blue apps).
<::jealous::> Well, I've had to cap my toy purchases since the shelving increase, so you could beat me yet!
<Maybe santa will be good to you this year> Don't you think I'll have better luck with Satan? ;)
<You know your data belongs to Microsoft now, right?> Yeah, yeah. At least I don't have to sign any non disclosures ;)
<Ah, taste.> Is that akin to getting a "point"?
<Argh!> You can't grunt like a pirate until the 19th! ;)
<Not really.> Metal underwear, baby :)
< I'm a bit tired of being scrawny> They just opened a gym on the lower level of this building. Yay to free elipticals and nautilus!

Gside: Do you do windows?
<No crazy aunts or uncles that give you socks each Christmas/birthday?> I have a crazy aunt that lives in Sacramento and gives me book money, and a crazy aunt in Brockton who sends me birthday gifts on my brother's birthday ;)
<How about one of the companions for the Trainer class?> Let's put it this way--if I were Lulu, she would just end up settling for Mog ;)
<Then I should really go get disc 4> Disk 1 was rather entertaining, as well. Ended at a really good place. And good luck beating Ultimicia without a buttload of Pheonix Downs ;)

Gotta get off machine before neck explodes...adios!

Niamhgold
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 11:38:05 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

Never posted here before, but now I have a substantial reason to do so. I was not able to see Gargoyles on Toon Disney this weekend like normal. For some reason, its time slot was taken by Buzz Lightyear. Anybody else run into this?
mark
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 11:18:57 PM
IP: 67.67.113.212

REALLY must resist urge to Kill roomates! I thought they were nice, now I'm starting to hate them both. One was talking on the phone with a guy (presumably her boyfriend), and I overheard (the phone is on my desk, and she was sitting in the chair in the neighbordesk), and apparently, the other roomate is having her boyfriend spend the night this weekend! EXCUSE ME? I live here too! If he does end up spending the night, and I don't ever actually get "told" before then, I'm taking it up with my RA (who is nice, but doesn't seem to be the type to enforce policies). it's actually in the school policies to have roomates permission for overnight visitors anyway.

I WANT OUT!

College SHOULD be fun, but not when I'm excluded from everything, especially things that happen in my own dorm!
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 10:26:46 PM
IP: 130.111.155.35

Lynati- Do I still have a paper I did a year and a half ago in college? Gah no, I got rid of as many traces of that horrible time in my life as possible. The only thing I recall liking about college was hanging out with Aaron and skipping to go play Marvel vs. Capcom at Excalibur, then going to my house to watch Reboot or Treasure Island or something... However, I did post it to the CR long ago, and a quick hunt shows that its still there. Just use the link below or click my name. I posted the love and death essay early Sunday, so its near the bottom and pretty easy to find. (For those interested, the Love and Death essay was a paper I had to do for Society and Social issues class, "Issues" for short, and the subject I chose was Disney.)

http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2001/10-20-2001.html

Aaron and Mara- Hey you two, you need to come by sometime, I miss you guys...

Heather- I LOVE YOU!
Robby
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 10:16:01 PM
IP: 64.12.96.138

Imzadi - <Okay, I've decided that it's time for TGS to stop using a white background for it's stories. Staring at a white screen is like staring into a lightbulb - a pain in the ass. Especially after the time required to read a story. Switch to a more pastel-like background or a darker one with bright writing.> There is an easy solution. Change your default colors on your web browser since the coding for the stories doesn't specify the background color.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 10:04:19 PM
IP: 204.94.193.48

Lynati: Of course not. I know, I know: "then it ain't getting done". That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
Josh
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 09:04:36 PM
IP: 66.125.230.73

Josh- are you volunteering to do the coding for that?
Lynati
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 08:56:08 PM
IP: 65.66.155.232

Okay, I've decided that it's time for TGS to stop using a white background for it's stories. Staring at a white screen is like staring into a lightbulb - a pain in the ass. Especially after the time required to read a story. Switch to a more pastel-like background or a darker one with bright writing.
Josh
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 08:01:08 PM
IP: 66.125.230.73

Story Update for Rome Eternal:

Artwork by Rodlox has been added.
DPH - [<-Click here to read this week's story]
AR, USA
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 05:21:17 PM
IP: 204.94.193.38

Lynati>>
*smacks forehead* That's right, Kami is on Dragonball Z! (Just spent the weekend at AnimeFEST --- everything's a blur.) I'll copy/paste that information for reference material. I'm hoping to have a story ready for an upcoming AvMists.

Thanks again!!
Spike
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 04:42:08 PM
IP: 66.137.130.179

...
lain
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 04:13:37 PM
IP: 65.93.84.117

Spike- It's "Kai", not Kami...and I'm not sure who was already around in your tenure with the project, but the other named members of Ishimura in the 2000 era include Riko (f, second in command), Tairi (f) Washi (elderly male, Kai's adviser at the first council) and Yanagi (f). No one new that we have named/ are focusing on yet.

and I'm also glad to hear you are writing again. : )
Lynati
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 04:09:42 PM
IP: 66.142.231.72

College sucks and It's only the first day of classes. My roomates seem to think I am invisible. They are like best friends now (I suspect they talked more than once over the summer, I know they talked a few weeks before I talked to wither, which would mean I've been left out from day zero), and go out and bring in friends together, WITHOUT WARNING. While I have no real issues with them having visitors, about a dozen different people have been in the room at random times while I'm in it, and only about half of them actually attend our school. I live in the room too, and you'd think they'd at least TELL me a few people are comming over for an hour, rather than just barge in and wake me from a wonder nap in pajamas at midday.

I looks like I'll be the one to move out if this triple is broken (probably will be within a month, if not, I'll go mad). Not that I mind too much. I won't be "the invisible roomate" any more, and even if I ended up with another sucky roomate, I'm no worse off than I am right now.

First class is Java, and the first assignment next week already has (simple) programming in it. UM, why not teach the damn class as if they have NO clue what it is! Some of us have never progamed before, and even those who have, Java is different from, other languages. One of the first things the teacher told us about computers is that unlike people, ahve no common sense, and therefore cannot assume anything. Conversely, DON'T ASSUME EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! You need to TELL us. This is going to be one class that you read the book to learn, rather than be taught (I can tell just by looking at the first 2 assignments). So WHY did I pay a ton of money to take the damn course If I'm not really being taught?

Ok, that rant made me feel a little better. I have no friends here yet to rant to (and don't tell me to make some, I've tried, all my life people have refused to agnowledge me simply because I'm short and ugly. Those kind of people aren't worth getting to know anyway), so I;m sorry if all my ranting comes out here.
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 04:09:12 PM
IP: 130.111.155.35

Spike> As far as we know he still is. It is good to hear that you're writing again, can't wait to see the Ishimura clan again.
Heather - [neo_digi@yahoo.com]
Warner Robins, GA, USA
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 01:58:44 PM
IP: 68.98.197.174

Mooncat: Actually, I was looking for the smaller hawkgirl toy that retails for 7.99 along with the Flash, Superman, etc. But I'll definitely keep my eyes open. Right now, I think I have to put my own purchasing of non-necessary stuff on hold for school items and gifts ;)
Niamhgold
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 10:34:27 AM
IP: 206.41.203.15

Thanks Todd, great summary. Hopefully it won't be too long before Cartoon Net. picks up these eps too. Hopefully.

Josh: Yeah last night while watching the Gargoyles ( :D ) they had a commercial for it. It is something like the Kim Possible Secret Files or something like that. They said its out for sale on Sept 2 (today, last I checked). That's all I heard of it. Good luck.

later!
Dezi
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 09:24:08 AM
IP: 68.58.158.101

Stupid question, but is Kami still the leader of the Ishimura Clan in TGS? Also are there any new characters that TGS has added to the Ishimura clan?

(Yes, I'm writing a TGS indie again.... *L*)

Thanks!!
Spike
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 09:20:54 AM
IP: 66.137.130.75

DEZI - As per your request:

*X-MEN: EVOLUTION SPOILERS *

Apocalypse shows up in his spaceship atop a Mayan pyramid in the Yucatan, which turns into a high-tech-looking pyramid structure like his ship (the indication being that it was like that underneath all along and that the Mayan architecture was just a facade; evidently either Apocalypse or Rama-Tut had been busy in a number of other places besides Egypt), and surrounds the area with an impenetrable force field. Both Xavier and Magneto find out about it and go to investigate, Xavier being accompanied by Scott, Jean, Beast, Kitty Pryde, and Wolverine, and Magneto going alone - they had a great bit where he was shown making a fresh "travelling sphere" out of a lot of old swords and shields from his new headquarters in Egypt, presumably left over from the Crusades. Magneto attacks Apocalypse's force field, even pulling satellites out of their orbits to throw against it, until Apocalypse emerges briefly and disintegrates him (or at least appears to disintegrate him) almost as though Magneto was just some pesty fly buzzing about; Xavier looks absolutely horrified.

As a companion plot, Mystique is still petrified after helping to free Apocalypse, and Kurt (remembering how, even if she's thoroughly evil, she's also his mother - he's almost like a male Angela here) wants to find some way of undoing it. Rogue, on the other hand, filled with bitterness and anger over everything that Mystique's done to her, wants her to stay that way. Xavier, realizing that Rogue won't take too well towards having a stone Mystique around the mansion, gives the statue to the Brotherhood, who are having a ball with it, playing all sorts of practical jokes with it - Toad even does a "Back to the Future" routine with it at one point, while Blob wants to put it on the roof like a gargoyle (his actual words) - until Kurt persuades Wanda to let him take it back to the Institute and to consult her old tutor Agatha Harkness on a way of curing Mystique. Agatha tells Kurt that the only way to undo Mystique's petrification would be for Rogue to touch her and reverse the "turning-to-stone" process; however, Rogue, still eaten up with anger and hatred over Mystique, pushes the statue over a cliff and smashes it, to Kurt's horror. (And we actually see it break up into fragments, which makes me wonder how they're going to bring Mystique back now, or even *if* they will.)

There's also a little bit at Magneto's headquarters, before he leaves to fight Apocalypse, where we see some more of Colossus; it turns out that Colossus is working as one of Magneto's henchmen because apparently Magneto is holding his family hostage. The two of them actually confront each other over it, and Magneto uses his magnetic abilities to shove Colossus against the wall, but Colossus cleverly shifts back to his human form which Magneto can't affect and charges at him - Gambit breaks the fight up before it can go far, however. Presumably we'll find out more about Colossus and his family in later episodes - Magneto's apparent death will certainly have an impact on that element.

All in all, it was a very good episode - and in some ways, a surprisingly dark one, especially with Mystique's fate at the end.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 08:18:37 AM
IP: 171.75.194.107

Niamhgold -- Looked over at eBay and it seems there are a lot of figures available in the 20 to 30 dollar range. The ones that cost more are in sets or are the marquette (sp?) statues. I think the 'retail' was 19 dollars? So one in the 20 range isn't that much more than it would be off the shelf, if they were available on the shelf. I went to Walmart tonight just to look, and nope not a Hawkgirl in the bunch. I'm sure I saw one at my local comic book store not long ago though, *frets* and didn't think to pick it up.

The thing with the Hawkgirls is that they only come three to a case of figures, and all the other figures are the armored versions of superman and the rest of the Justice League. So out of a whole case of about 109 dollars (give or take) only three of those figures will be Hawkgirl. As far as I know, noone is going out of their way for the rest of the figures in the case.

There is a soft toy Hawkgirl up for cheap on eBay right now.

Good luck finding a Hawkgirl figure. A year from now you can probably get them cheap as the "new toy" frenzy fades out.

night
Mooncat
Moonat
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 04:08:13 AM
IP: 68.102.0.23

I've never been so far from productive. And proud of it.

***TGS COMMENTS***

None, really. Interesting plot and a good job of covering all the main characters.

***END TGS COMMENTS***

Fire Storm: <<No one has mentioned Charles Bronson's death yet.>>: Who?

Niamhgold: <<so much more room for toys and books>>: ::jealous::
<<the ones that are available are on ebay for about $50.00>>: Maybe santa will be good to you this year.
<<not an *eighth* grader>>: Apparently, 10th grader now.
<<It's a good thing I have XP, then>>: If you say so. You know your data belongs to Microsoft now, right?
<<the CLK 500, of course>>: Ah, taste.
<>: Maybe.
<<because Norton is crap>>: Yes it is. Though its all pretty much useless over here on this platform.
<<TEN DAY FALL BREAK!!>>: Argh!
<>: Not really.

Gside: <<it's off to Massachussets for an interview>>: What company?
<>: We've all gotta start somewhere.
<<You never seemed like one to go for the bulking powders, let alone steroids>>: I'll be starting the former. I'm a bit tired of being scrawny.
<>: But they're so much more useful than an equal amount of time spent brooding over the homework.
<<have you made any revolutionary new materials?>>: Personally? No. I have some interesting ideas, though.

Dezi: <<Happy Kim Possible DVD day>>: There's a KP DVD?

Out like a light.

221. My force-field generators will be located inside the shield they generate.

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 02:28:23 AM
IP: 66.125.230.73

Ok, so I finally broke down and got cable. Instead of getting just plain basic cable, I went ahead and got digital cable (basic+HBO or Showtime would actually cost more than the digital). Added perk: TOON DISNEY! Yes yes, _I_ just got done watching back to back episodes of Gargoyles on TV, without using my VCR in it feels like almost ten years. (Actually what, maybe five? The series went off the air in 1996, but they re-ran it on USA for a short while, pre-dawn kinda thing). Still a long long time. It was so refreshing! I even skipped watching Inuyasha on Cartoon Network to watch the Gargoyles. *sits back happily* Ahhhhh.
Now with all of that fresh in my mind, I mourn Lynati's post about the 2-D. I am glad though that I had a change of heart and skipped out of animation for communications. I always wanted to do the 2-D stuff, and that's the kind they primarily taught us in Chicago. I was never really into the creation of the 3-D. Heh, alot of my instructors at Chicago did warn us that Disney animators go crazy or something. Now I could see why. I mean, its gotta mean _something_ when your company has groups of animators jump ship not once but _twice_ (Don Bluth and Dreamworks) because you make them sick and frustrated. Disney is screwing itself over, and I'm glad to see that Pixar is in such a position that they can finally turn the tables on Disney and make them be Pixar's little (w)itch. (<-yes that's me trying to be a clever little cusser ;) ). Really, they're just now starting to figure out that after ten years of song and dance numbers, we are sick of Disney cheesy musicals as animation movies, and are getting they're act together on that count (Stitch was awesome and had no song and dance * the Elvis thing was a seperate matter*), and then they go and pull this. *sigh* Makes me like working for the news more and more.

I did pick up the Stitch sequel last week. It was good in that it was better than most Disney sequels. The stuff that was cute and funny in the first one, they would play up almost out of the blue in this one, kinda like a familiarity plug of some sort. The real purpose of the sequel was to set the stage for the series, out on ABC soon. If they at least keep up the same quality for the series, then the series looks to be pretty good (once again compared to the quality of other recent Disney series). Its based along a Where's Waldo theme, with Lilo and Stitch trying to find all of his "cousins" (one of whom he develops a crush on). So its not Gargoyles deep, but at least its better than Timon and Pumbaa. Maybe, hopefully, somewhere in with Talespin and Darkwing Duck (although those are from a small golden age experienced. *pouts*).

BTW could someone post a spoiler or two or a sharp review of the latest XE ep? I had to work on Saturday. :P

Dumbnut brother left for the air force today. They are gonna put him with a dog as a K-9 air force cop. May God be with us all. Heh, talk about a potential threat to national security.

Announcement: Yea! I'm officially a junior in school! I've only been enrolled in this school for a year and about 2 months! When I transferred in, none of my credits came with me so I started over as a freshman. Yipee!

Andrea: Happy Kim Possible DVD day!

ok thats it. Oh yeah, and only 24 more days until I see REM in Chicago! :D

later

Dezi
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 01:06:07 AM
IP: 68.58.158.101

Tomorrow, it's off to Massachussets for an interview. I love nepotism. Now if only more family/friends were in the right fields...

Fire Storm> <<Maybe their just book smart>>: I'd say that's most likely.
<<It was too watery this time>>: A bit of flour as a thickening agent maybe?
<<Rage is very level headed, Gluttony believes in moderation, Sloth is hyper and is always on the go>>: Close enough.
<<Those MechE's really need to start working on engineering MECH's>>: Go complain to your local university.

Imzadi> <<just seeing if you're paying attention>>: You never seemed like one to go for the bulking powders, let alone steroids.
<<Going to office hours occasionally helps this>>: I was never really one for office hours.
<<You might be waiting a while>>: Very well, then.
<<It depends on focus>>: I'll take your word on it then. So have you made any revolutionary new materials?

Niamhgold> <<I'm also dealing with seniors (both first and second semester seniors) who are already depressed about this year and the job market, and it better not rub off on me>>: Just laugh at them when they leave.
<>: I volunteer.
<<Ummmm...soon, a BFA in Illustration/Animation?>>: No crazy aunts or uncles that give you socks each Christmas/birthday?
<<Then she *definitely* wouldn't>>: How about one of the companions for the Trainer class?
<<Both?>>: As long as it's not trying to discover more artistic ways of doing it, that's left brained enough for me.
<<Best ending sequence>>: Then I should really go get disc 4.
<<Much better than the five-minute, half-real-time jip at the end of 9>>: Which had the better mechanics, though?
<<Holey rusted metal, Batman!>>: Riddle me this: How is a raven like a writing desk?
<<Then I could be blue>>: At least you'd make good music.
<<It hurts so much, I'd almost take you up on the offer>>: Woohoo.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 12:13:24 AM
IP: 68.39.173.60

TGS proudly presents a Pendragon Season story . . .

Rome Eternal

Written by Ed Reynolds

Outline by Nicodemus

Click my name, go to the link at the top of the cr that says "Current Episode", or visit http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/ce.html to
read this week's story.
DPH - [<--Click here to read this week's story]
ar, usa
Tuesday, September 2, 2003 12:01:16 AM
IP: 204.94.193.35

The weirdest thing happened to me a few moments ago.

I was reading something about the new episode from X-Men : Evolution when I saw something out the corner of my eye. Something appeared right next to my puppy's cage.

It was a frog.

I know that our backyard as been going frog and toad crazy because of the huge light we back on one side of our house and the amphibians hang out there because of the bugs that are attracted to it. But it was weird! How did a frog get in the house? My mom said it was probably some siding it slip through...

Heather - [neo_digi@yahoo.com]
Warner Robins, GA, USA
Monday, September 1, 2003 11:09:17 PM
IP: 68.98.197.174

Well, I've finally moved into my new apartment. There is so much more free space now, so much more room for toys and books and such, that I can't believe it costs the same as my place from last year. The only problem is a massive leak in my kitchen sink that *better* be fixed tomorrow ;) It's going towards my stove.

I hate trying to find this new Justice League hawkgirl toy--it's always sold out, and the ones that are available are on ebay for about $50.00. Not worth it.

As far as classes go, I'm looking forward to Computer Animation, Film Noir, and Exhibition Development. Not looking forward to thesis class. It's 8 and a half hours of blah blah blah blah metaphor blah blah. Insert a few more metaphors in there, and you've got my semester syllabus. Thusly, I've planned for at least one extended vacation and a project that allows me to be...mobile. I'm also dealing with seniors (both first and second semester seniors) who are already depressed about this year and the job market, and it better not rub off on me. If my motivation to move the hell out of here after graduation begins to fade, somebody smack me ;)

Replies:

Imzadi: Nah...not an *eighth* grader ;)
<Or any dress, for that matter! Nothing beats a naked maid> Yeah. That's what I meant. I need a naked male maid ;) And I can just be naked ;)
<Bad combination, especially on Win2K> It's a good thing I have XP, then.
 Doo-da...
<Did I make the cut?> We'll have to wait a few weeks for the official result...
< That's a healthy animal> My dad gets his exercise by taking *it* for a walk ;)
<Warmaster!> Gunblade! Wait. Wrong FF.
<Which one?> Why, the CLK 500, of course!
<yes I can. An offer made when you can't pay doesn't count 8-)> I can do installment plans.
<They do come in handy> Even just for cookies. :(
<And if they are, all you have to do about it make sure not to share undies with them.> Luckily for me, she was five sizes larger! ;)
<But that means that ONE of you has it.> Not yet. But I'm replacing NOrton with McAffee, because Norton is crap.
<THREE DAY WEEKEND!> TEN DAY FALL BREAK!!
<Only if your mouth is large enough for them to fit> That could be a good thing for her, no?
<Well, when I say "reserve a room", I mean "continue paying rent on a place I'm already living in" ;-)> Still, I have to agree to this "spanking" ;)
<Don't care> Right. By elephant, or flying saucer. In which case, I may just go to Hawaii.
<Mine too. I'm not gonna be able to start my gym routine tomorrow if I can't get this kink worked out of my neck.> Those suck. And all of these computer courses aren't going to help.
 Pluto.

Jaden: <Someone was watching Futurama.> Amen.

Bud-Clare: <I've got some grandmothers that I could offer you. What have you got to trade?> Ummmm...soon, a BFA in Illustration/Animation?
<Don't do that, you'll jinx yourself> If it's too late, it's too late ;)
<That would be very, very funny to watch. As long as it wasn't literal... nevermind.> And of course that's what I meant ;)
<You probably shouldn't have reserved the room until she actually agrees to the spanking. :P> Always good.
<I'd think that the spanking should occur on neutral ground, midway between each of your homes... Like Iowa, or somewhere.> Iowa's hell. Too close to Detroit. Besides, the coasts are good ;) And I don't think it would save on my expenditure too much, either, if I were to say fly or something.

Gside: <But I was talking about the other X2 costumes, which are rather skimpy> Then she *definitely* wouldn't
<Artistically, or in the name of discovery?> Both? ;)
 Blastphemer! Best ending sequence. Much better than the five-minute, half-real-time jip at the end of 9.
<Into the wild blue yonder!> Holey rusted metal, Batman!
<Maybe Neptune'll be good enough.> Then I could be blue :)
<May I help?> It hurts so much, I'd almost take you up on the offer.

Niamhgold
Monday, September 1, 2003 09:10:21 PM
IP: 209.143.83.90

Imzadi: 
See? That's one way to bring people together!

Odd. No one has mentioned Charles Bronson's death yet.

Disney: Well, being 3d doesn't necessarily mean that everything will suck.
While this may be a bad sign, it is a fairly wise financial decision. Given, it will piss off the hard core intelligent animation watchers, but the little kids (and you know that's their ONLY audience, according to them), can't tell/don't care about the difference.
Plus, they always have Japan for cheap 2D animation.
Fire Storm
Monday, September 1, 2003 07:07:54 PM
IP: 68.248.18.174

"The only difference between Disney and the Titanic is that the Titanic had an orchestra!� - David Koenig

first off, I'd just like to post the link (orignally from the webcomic Something Positive) about Eisner's new "my brains are in my ass, and I've sat so many times I've squished them out of shape and mostly out of my body entirely" plan to
CUT VITRUALLY ALL OF DISNEY'S 2-D ANIMATORS http://www.mouseplanet.com/david/dk030814.htm

What do you think, people, is it time to boycott? (well, let's wait and see if they get the Gargoyles dvd out next summer like they said they would...or maybe yeah, start the boycott now, so the dvd sales for gargs look good by comparison.)

yes, under the new plans, we can look forward to 3-D butcherings of ALL the old classics. and if we ever get gargs back, not that disney has the sense to do so, it'll likely be as a 3-D program.

on the plus side, maybe because of this Disney will finally get broke enough to sell or lease the rights to Gargoyles...

hey, Robby, if you happen to read this, do you still have a copy of your old paper on "love and death" about Disney that you could forward me? I've been wanting to see a copy of that for a while.
Lynati
Monday, September 1, 2003 03:52:57 PM
IP: 66.141.253.48

Niamhgold <neverending to-do list> I have one of those, unfortunately most of involves things that are considered impossible.

Josh I don't know, I mean I don't even remember is I was breathing before the parachute opened.

Penguines on Pluto- Someone was watching Futurama.

Graymonk- I like LXG, but like many sci-fi/fantasy movies it needed a little more character and plot development.

Blah. College homework.
Later.

Jaden - [jaden1444@aol.com]
Monday, September 1, 2003 03:37:45 PM
IP: 4.3.64.42

hi

louise
Monday, September 1, 2003 10:58:56 AM
IP: 81.152.194.246

Now seriously...

AMGC and MGC have been updated!!!
AMGC: http://amgc.gargoyles-fans.org/
MGC: http://mgc.gargoyles-fans.org/

Topics for September:
MGC: Pirate Gargoyles
AMGC: Yuri/Yaoi

Voting on:
MGC: Circus Gargoyles
AMGC: Beauty & Beast
Siryn
Monday, September 1, 2003 08:55:23 AM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Hit the gym for the first time in months. I think I'll be feeling it tomorrow. I've started a new routine with my friend: 3 days of short area-centric workouts followed by 1 day off with lots of protein powder and anabolic steroids (just seeing if you're paying attention).

I also started up a Friendster profile today, so if you're in on that and want to add me as a friend, knock yourself out. If you don't want to add me as a friend, then bite me. I know where you live. Probably.

Bud-Clare: <<I'll tell, unless you pay me>>: I've killed blackmailers before.
<<It'd be easier to ask you>>: True, but the idea here is to verify my statements.
<<I've had better>>: I doubt it.
<<Another class moved a test up one day and they forgot to tell me>>: Going to office hours occasionally helps this.
<<why people don't throw money at _me_ for no good reason>>: My guess would be that you aren't hot enough.

Lynati: <<remember when the CR used to be full of posters>>: I remember when the CR was full of Doug's posts, does that count?

Greg: <<we all got Livejournals?>>: There's a joke here with a juxtaposition for "we all got lives", I just can't find it. In any case, blogs are lame.

Gside: <<May I help?>>: No.
<<I'm anxious to see the next source>>: You might be waiting a while.
<<I'm not sure how much training our MechEs and CivEs in making materials>>: It depends on focus.
<<Feh on your livejournals>>: Amen, brother!

Fire Storm: <<Those MechE's really need to start working on engineering MECH's>>: I think mechs might be large enough to incorporate civil engineers, especially on outer plating and nuclear reactor supporting structure.

220. Whatever my one vulnerability is, I will fake a different one. For example, ordering all mirrors removed from the palace, screaming and flinching whenever someone accidentally holds up a mirror, etc. In the climax when the hero whips out a mirror and thrusts it at my face, my reaction will be "Hmm...I think I need a shave."

Josh - [ATkicktothenutsDOTcom]
Berkeley, CA, US of A
Monday, September 1, 2003 03:39:51 AM
IP: 66.125.230.73

Gside: <Maybe they're not really that smart. That, or smart robots aren't as interesting.>
Maybe their just book smart.
Humans = flesh. Gasoline + Flesh = cool F/X
Flesh = Weak. Robots = Strong. Robots > Humans
<You're probably too confused over all the other things you've had before and since>
Maybe... or maybe I just need to add more tomato paste. It was too watery this time. More like a bean soup than chili.
<Actually, Hope is a depressive, Chastity ended up working for the Seamstress's Guild, Prudence has thirteen>
Rage is very level headed, Gluttony believes in moderation, Sloth is hyper and is always on the go, but Bestiality REALLY loves the animals and Daikatana just plain sucks.
<I'm not sure how much training our MechEs and CivEs in making materials>
Those MechE's really need to start working on engineering MECH's
Fire Storm
Monday, September 1, 2003 01:58:33 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Imzadi> <<if I can't get this kink worked out of my neck>>: May I help?
<<I'm stretching my cycle by adding more great quotes>>: Ooh, I'm anxious to see the next source.
<>: Doesn't hurt to try.
<<they can all work on materials>>: I'm not sure how much training our MechEs and CivEs in making materials.

Bud Clare> <<I'll tell, unless you pay me>>: You want in, then?

Fire Storm> <<with all the fiction devoted to the subject, the robots should realize that killing all the humans may be more trouble than it's worth>>: Maybe they're not really that smart. That, or smart robots aren't as interesting.
<<For a minute there, I thought you put it through the "Lost in translation" link on Kungfool>>: Nope, snagged a counter slogan from Rincewind from Interesting Times.
<<:waits:: Oh, here it is... nope, nope. Sorry. Wasn't even gas>>: You're probably too confused over all the other things you've had before and since.
<<"Sick thing is that is his favorite vice too.">>: Actually, Hope is a depressive, Chastity ended up working for the Seamstress's Guild, Prudence has thirteen children, and Charity expects a dollar's change out of 75 pence.

Lynati> <<anyone know what happened to those people?>>: Generally either faded away, or too many flames for their tastes.

Greg> <<Um, we all got Livejournals?>>: Feh on your livejournals.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, September 1, 2003 12:16:12 AM
IP: 68.37.214.227

LYNATI> Um, we all got Livejournals?
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, August 31, 2003 10:46:20 PM
IP: 216.179.3.203

Hey, remember when the CR used to be full of posters, like 59 - FIFTY-NINE!! - different people a week? every time you glanced into the CR, there'd be at least two new posts, it seemed?

anyone know what happened to those people?
Lynati
Sunday, August 31, 2003 09:12:25 PM
IP: 66.142.54.71

Ten in the name of those who have colds *cough*
Spacebabie
Sunday, August 31, 2003 12:38:43 PM
IP: 4.72.69.2

NINE!
Dezi
Sunday, August 31, 2003 12:37:46 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

8th.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, August 31, 2003 12:22:08 PM
IP: 68.37.214.227

Number 7 arrrrrrg!
Revel
Sunday, August 31, 2003 11:59:12 AM
IP: 68.119.235.181

Sixth. yay.
Gabriel
Sunday, August 31, 2003 11:03:24 AM
IP: 129.120.85.51

Fifth!
Heather
Warner Robins, GA, USA
Sunday, August 31, 2003 10:34:24 AM
IP: 68.98.197.174

Fourth!
Niamhgold
Sunday, August 31, 2003 09:23:12 AM
IP: 209.143.83.90

3rd
Ed
Sunday, August 31, 2003 09:07:35 AM
IP: 213.187.39.66

Second, I guess.
Lynati
Sunday, August 31, 2003 08:34:39 AM
IP: 66.142.56.147

Like, oh my Dog!

First!
Fire Storm
Sunday, August 31, 2003 06:39:31 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3