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Fire Storm> <<Who is this Zero fella?>>: Got me, I think they went into his background in the PSX games, but he's kind of like a combined Protoman and Bass/Forte. And the sprite comic authors tend to make him gay.
<<Muscling in on my terf, eh?>>: Not your turf, your voices' turf. Or was that a voice talking?
<>: Haven't a clue. My bet is the Japanese version is actually an entirely new continuity. That, or they're luring the translators into a false sense of security that they'll shatter when they reveal their gory autoerotic murders at the hands of a hermaphroditic Jesse/Musashi.
<<Too bad you can't grab the electric rat by the tail and hit others with him>>: If only you could do that in a team battle. But who'd take the damage if you were using Pichu?
<<OR just start a campaign of blowing up random $h17>>: You've got to plan an occaisonal boom to get away from the monotony of the randomness.
<>: Tuesday? But that'd just be wrong. And besides, tuesday is band.
<<I'll overwrite your stuff before you even write it!>>: Of course, because you're writing first.

Lain> <<in respect to the staff of "pendragon" which is still publishing>>: When was the last time what was being published mattered to what was under discussion in here.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, November 10, 2003 12:04:21 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

No, the Timedancer story about Merlin and Mary's future was "Two Roads Diverged". "No Mercy" is a Pendragon story, not a Timedancer story.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, November 9, 2003 06:38:27 PM
IP: 63.186.0.47

Wee Hee!
I just went to an Indy flea market with my mommy (who happens to be in town :) ) and I found.....
A Demona action figure for $2!!! They also had an Elisa figure with some sort of battle armor type stuff, dunno how much that one was, ran outta money. One vendor had an Elisa for $16 but the packaging was all ripped up and it would have been a rip off for that much. The next stand I went to had the Demona in great condition and the guy just shrugged and said $2. THEN later on and many stands later, I found another stand that had two of the same Elisa's earlier but didn't know the price (where it didnt matter anyway cause no dough).
I was just shocked in the first place to find so many in one location, since I haven't seen them except on ebay since I was a freshman in high school (1996). Wow what a day!
Dezi
Sunday, November 9, 2003 06:26:07 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

<lets also say that you are curious, in particular, about the "Bad Guys" series that TGS is working on.

if this were to be the case, what sorts of questions might you have about the series? >

Who are the main adversaries for Bad Guys?
Question
Sunday, November 9, 2003 06:14:45 PM
IP: 144.92.164.204

To Renee; The episode you're referring to would be 'No Mercy.'
Storyseeker - [Storyseeker.1@btopenworld.com]
Birmingham, UK
Sunday, November 9, 2003 06:04:05 PM
IP: 213.122.14.155

Hey! This is my first time posting to the newsgroup - I was wondering which specific TD episode that we hear about Mary and Merlin in the future. I remember it somewhat (from reading it awhile ago), but can't find it.
Renee - [agatsuma@juno.com]
New York, NY, 10024
Sunday, November 9, 2003 05:10:11 PM
IP: 128.59.42.105

so peeps,

lets just say that you are curious.

lets also say that you are curious, in particular, about the "Bad Guys" series that TGS is working on.

if this were to be the case, what sorts of questions might you have about the series?

relevant questions will be compiled and answered - but not in here, in respect to the staff of "pendragon" which is still publishing and deserves your attention.

nonetheless, i would like to know what you might be curious about so please, ask away.

thanks.
lain
Sunday, November 9, 2003 03:42:24 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

*peeks in*
Regarding the GFA and 'messsed up' stories - I'm working onthat. Unfortunately, different browsers tend to react differently on some of the upcoming changes, so i need to get them sorted out and find a solution for all of them to make the stories look good without opening too much security holes or abilities to change the whole layout from within a story.
*poofs again*
Guandalug la'Fay - [Guandalug@gargoyes-fans.org]
Sunday, November 9, 2003 11:34:21 AM
IP: 145.254.103.250

Fire Storm -- I know ... the archive always does that with my stories and I'm not computer savvy enough to fix it. Sorry. As for the e-mail, I did have to delete 350 pieces of spam this morning, so maybe we were full up. Sorry 'bout that, too!
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Sunday, November 9, 2003 09:08:03 AM
IP: 208.187.159.80

Well, after some work, I got IIS, mySQL and PHP back up on my work computer. There was a problem with a frelling Windows Media Player plug in using the ports I needed, but after that was taken care of, all is well.

Ok, how stupid is this: The radio station that my work is tuned into is playing nothing but CHRISTMAS MUSIC!
Thank the gods that I don't have to here it where I am!

New little ficlet in the GFW.

Gside: 
Megaman was good, but I just have one question: Who is this Zero fella? ;)
<That would be me>
Muscling in on my terf, eh?
<And I've got my knowledge of Pokémon deeply engraved in Smash>
Figures. Hey, I just saw new episodes of Pokémon on WB... where's Brock and Misty?
<odd views on which ones can deal the damage>
Too bad you can't grab the electric rat by the tail and hit others with him.
<Better. After all, chickens don't get much blame for their pox.>
"Have a drumstick, because chicken won't give you ebola!"
<That's just not right. We're going to have to sign them up as the next random thing>
Yeah! OR just start a campaign of blowing up random $h17.
<But we do that every wednesday evening>
Weird. I always pictured that as a Tuesday night event.
<You mean two seconds after I start?>
Probably. I'll overwrite your stuff before you even write it!

Christine: <New story>
Great story... but the formatting in the GFW is messed up. White text on beige background. Tried e-mailing you, but it bounced.
Fire Storm
Sunday, November 9, 2003 05:00:29 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Fire Storm> <<but at least I have Megaman X roms>>: I should get around to finishing 2 and 3, but how I wish Dejap would finish their Star Ocean translation.
<<just who IS telling you to kill them all?>>: That would be me.
<<my (extremely) limited knowledge of Pokemon makes me think of that little rat whenever I hear this>>: And I've got my knowledge of Pokémon deeply engraved in Smash, so I'll bever stop thinking of Wobbuffet as !@#$face (think alliteratively) and have odd views on which ones can deal the damage.
<<Pigs spread ebola>>: Better. After all, chickens don't get much blame for their pox.
<<Never heard anyone around here use that term when referring to bags>>: My bad, then.
<<They want to stay OUT of that race>>: That's just not right. We're going to have to sign them up as the next random thing.
<<Something artistic, like strategically placed hot dog buns with a mustard container in one hand>>: But we do that every wednesday evening.
<<18 inches>>: Well over that already.
<<or one of us starts writing stuff that overwrites the others>>: You mean two seconds after I start?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, November 9, 2003 12:47:57 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

*gives Revel a big thumb's up for this month's MGC entry*
That is SO cool!!
Spike
Saturday, November 8, 2003 06:14:52 PM
IP: 67.66.1.77

*peeks in*
As promised, here's my chatlog. Click my link, or go to
http://dreams.wox.org/~guandalug/Station8ChatLog.html
to read about the chat with Greg last night.

I can give no guarantee for completeness, but I do hope that fetching the chartoom every 30 seconds and fusing all the files gives a fairly complete log. Unedited, only fused!

*poofs out to actually read the chatlog*

Guandalug la'Fay - [Guandalug@gmx.de]
Saturday, November 8, 2003 04:49:31 PM
IP: 145.254.104.214

Ed> <<Truth to tell, I felt sure you’d not like “Wolves” based on your previously established concerns about Mary’s brashness>> Yes, but here there was a consequence to her 'brashness' (both her being shot and Merlin putting himself in danger). She was also shown here deliberating with herself over whether what she did was worth the risks. As long as Mary isn't always portrayed as some hothead rushing into action for no good reason, I have no problem with her.
Vash
Saturday, November 8, 2003 04:45:23 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

I’m really delighted at the feedback these last few TGS stories have been receiving. There have been a lot of very insightful comments, and in particular a lot of disagreements. It’s always intriguing to see differing viewpoints on episodes. So thanks to everyone who is commenting.

Some replies.

***SPOILERS FOR “WOLVES” AND “NO MERCY”***

I think everyone makes a good point about the Money Pit and the lack of attention it receives. Truth to tell, I never really gave it much thought and only did some brief research into it. I felt that the story was packed enough. I think three successive episodes moving between Grail sites would have been excessive as well though.

Graymonk: “Future Tense” was a kind of late inspiration. As I may have mentioned, the original conception of “No Mercy” was Arthur entering a world where Mordred had been revived in the modern world instead of Arthur; to that extent, both were derived from the same source, “It’s a Wonderful Life”. But Todd felt that it would be conceptually too similar to “Fata Morgana” and nobody wanted a “just an alternate universe” story. So I proposed it again as “A Pendragon Christmas Carol”.

I see where you’re coming from on “Wolves”. A lot of these problems actually derive from my late revisions to the story. Originally, Arthur was heading to New Zealand but encountered some kind of ‘transportation difficulty’. I changed this because I wanted Arthur to stay fixed in a location for some time for him to become familiar with the local problems, and I thought he would be more likely to move on if he wanted to get to New Zealand.

And as Question notes, the bad guy is Ictinke. The Unseelies were heading to war and passed through the village. There wasn’t any greater purpose behind it. It was a kind of commentary on the less obvious effects of war.

The idea of Jill being knighted was conceived long after we set “Wolves” in Ontario. Like, a year after. (Like, a couple of weeks ago!). The reason it seems spur of the moment is because it really was on my part. Why? Well, one, because it empowered and restored law to a community that was hitherto powerless and lawless – a kind of sub-theme in the story. Two, because it showed Arthur’s strength of character. Three, because it gives Arthur an ally in Canada which might give us a lead-in for future stories. And four because it’s kind of the direction we were looking at going in future seasons with Arthur developing a network of contacts around the world. I wasn’t sure if I should keep it because it might seem a bit improbable but Todd liked it and I figured it was a nice image.

Vash: Truth to tell, I felt sure you’d not like “Wolves” based on your previously established concerns about Mary’s brashness. I doubt Jill will ever really be on Arthur’s team like the other knights, and although it’s true that his knights are disproportionately female, I dare say it will swing the other way in time. And his allies in the London clan are disproportionately male so I think it will balance out. I did briefly consider knighting Mark as well (who was originally conceived as Jill’s brother, but I wanted to present her as more mature and grounded, unlike Dulci and Leba). I thought it would slow the scene down a bit though, and besides Jill had been presented as the stronger character, while Mark is more of a follower. Delighted you liked the dialogue. One part (the line about werewolves coming back from the dead as vampires) was from Todd's outline.

***END SPOILERS***
Ed
London, England
Saturday, November 8, 2003 03:05:41 PM
IP: 213.187.39.249

*Graymonk sees that, despite his proofreading, he still misspelled "though" in his response to Vash. Starts screaming and banging his head against a wall.*
Graymonk
Saturday, November 8, 2003 01:29:38 PM
IP: 198.164.140.226

Lurking Echo - Thanks for the info. I'll have to check it out next time I'm in Nova Scotia

Vashkoda - <<So what you're saying is that despite Arthur's 20-some years of memories of his son back in the middle ages (when Mordred most certainly was *not* speaking in modern slang), when Arthur's mind is made to recreate an image of him, it ignores all that and instead focuses on the version Arthur knew was fake and which he only met for the span of a few hours?>> What I'm saying is that since this Mordred is a construct of Arthur's mind, it has access to everything Arthur knows, including modern slang. He did know all about the Grail Quest, Vampyres, Lucius, Montrose, etc, even thoguh the true Mordred died long before Arthur's modern day adventures. Mordred did speak in a fairly relaxed manner in the Wicked Day flashback in "Once and Future King part 2." If Arthur's brain thought Mordred would easily employ modern slang, if he came back, there's no reason why a Mordred created by Arthur's brain wouldn't employ it. I don't find it hard to believe that if he came back with access to Art's memories, he'd speak like he did in NM. Plus it was a dream, and when was the last time you had a dream that made perfect sense? :)

Todd - <<(The only real complaint that I have about them is a number of typos and mispellings, and that probably comes more from having to write hurriedly.)>> You forgot about the numerous run-on sentences :) Seriously though, I just re-read last night's post, and yeah, it is horrific, even for me. All I can say in my defense is that I was tired, burntout from three straight hours of writing, trying to keep up the Greg chat at Station 8 (thanks again to Mooncat for moderating!) and rushing to get out of the building before it closed. I will attempt to make pennance by proofreading this post and answering any questions about what the hell I was trying to say in that train wreck of paragraphs.

<>I didn't think you had, I just thought the resemblances were neat commonalities.
<<There was a bit of influence, though, from the "New Batman/Superman Adventures" story "Over the Edge", however, in the form of Mary's death and Nigel angrily seeking vengeance upon Arthur and the London clan for it.>> I never saw that "Batman" episode (stupid Global, showing the Superman/Batman adventures at 9 a.m.) so I didn't make the connection.

<<I'm quite surprised, actually, that nobody here has mentioned the most obvious literary influence/inspiration for "No Mercy" - which does seem pretty clear when you analyze the three different destinations that Mordred takes Arthur to in his three different dreams - unless everyone here thought that it was so obvious that they didn't need to mention it.)>> *slaps forehead* I just got it. Either I'm really dense, or "Christmas Carol" take offs have become so wide spread no one notices them anymore.

<<Re your remarks about Rufus: by "Andrew", did you mean the character in "Buffy" (the only member of the "Evil Nerd Triad" to survive)?>> Yeah, Rufus's wild theories reminded me of the funny tangents Andrew would go off on (Faith killing Vulcans, The Trio capering around as gods and the like).
Graymonk - [mmckinnongra@hotmail.com]
Saturday, November 8, 2003 01:24:08 PM
IP: 198.164.140.226

Lurking Echo:<Question >> Yes, that’s what threw me off about Quetzalcoatl - he said that he had a brother named Tezcatlipoca... but a few lines before that he says he’s a dragon... oops. And I forgot to sign the post. Well, maybe the Huitzilopochtli that’s mentioned in “The Darkest Hour” and Tezcatlipoca aren’t the same in TGS.>
Maybe the Unseelie were recruiting outside of the Third Race and they actually recruited a dragon or two. It's not like he would have had much to do since Apep's defeat.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Saturday, November 8, 2003 12:39:31 PM
IP: 216.234.99.191

Wolves>So was the leader of the Unseelies that travelled through the town suppose to be Ictinke since the description given of him pretty much matches up the description of the leader of the monsters that was travelling through the area?

Graymonk

The similarities are coming from the fact that both are borrowing from the same source material which is LOTR and general human mythology.
Question
Saturday, November 8, 2003 04:18:38 AM
IP: 216.170.210.200

::sigh::
Everything is STILL not automated, so I am stuck here at night for another frelling week... doing less then before... but at least I have Megaman X roms

Todd: <It had Arthur and Co. come upon some orphaned wolf cubs>
I swear, that would have been absolutely priceless!

Bud-Clare: <It's not that I don't think that they're evil, it's that I don't have voices in my head telling me to kill them all.>
Phew! For a moment there, I thought you were going to let your guard down!
So... just who IS telling you to kill them all?
<Since when do you have a problem with that?>
Well, I like to corrupt children as much as the next being, but clowns just shouldn't be doing THAT when there are so many other ways that they corrupt children.
<Unless he _made_ me forget it somehow>
I am good at that... I think. I can't remember.

Oak Island: I'm sorry... but my (extremely) limited knowledge of Pokemon makes me think of that little rat whenever I hear this.

Gside: <You'd have all these random sheep wandering around, trying to bleat even though they can't. I'd say it's very surreal.>
...
Hmm... Damn... that just might work!
<So do we have anyone cooking up mad pig disease?>
No, worse! Pigs spread ebola!

Not to my knowledge. Never heard anyone around here use that term when referring to bags.
<Ah, the very first Mike's Left Hand. Very nostalgic.>
Never forget the classics.
<But how are they supposed to keep up in the random exploding things race?>
Now, get this because this is the weird thing: They want to stay OUT of that race!

Something artistic, like strategically placed hot dog buns with a mustard container in one hand.
<Trivia makes its own room>
By deleting other things.

Ah, but you must look deeper until you know the reason that the girl is sad:
H3r PD4 1$ teh suxx0r!
<But for how long?>
Well, a few months, 18 inches, or one of us starts writing stuff that overwrites the others.
<Do you have the actual data in a more readily SQL readable format?>
mySQL accepts comma delimited text for input, right? What I did was modify the info in Excel, save it in the format that SQL accepted, and POOF!
Fire Storm
Saturday, November 8, 2003 02:46:48 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Fire Storm> <>: You'd have all these random sheep wandering around, trying to bleat even though they can't. I'd say it's very surreal.
<<all we really need is one REALLY bad news report against pork and we are all set>>: So do we have anyone cooking up mad pig disease?
<>: I thought you were in the region where people generally call bags sacks.
<<Why does my milkshake taste salty?>>: Ah, the very first Mike's Left Hand. Very nostalgic.
<<They tried their best to keep the scientists out of the area>>: But how are they supposed to keep up in the random exploding things race?
<<As soon as I get a few more for my "Fans of TGS" calendar>>: I shall attempt to be pantsless more often, then. Are there any particular poses you're looking for?
<>: Trivia makes its own room.
<<Piro is becoming one with the way of the l33t too>>: I though being one with the sad girl in snow deflected that.
<<For now, there is room for two gods>>: But for how long?
<<have you done any uploading of data yet?>>: Not at all. I thought I'd be lazy for a bit longer and let you do that. Do you have the actual data in a more readily SQL readable format?
<<You wanted to be a Smurf?>>: They're not that fat. Now a Nu is just a huge round head with arms and legs, very spherical.

Andrea> <<take notes for 3 people who were going to miss class...my had was killing me>>: Just take one set of notes and coy them.

Bud Clare> <<Unless he _made_ me forget it somehow>>: Now that he has power over data, all he needs to do is give himself the data on how to get power over time, get it, and then he can make anyone forget anything anytime.

Shauntell> <<Just as long as all requests are clean, modest and not graphic>>: Well, there go all my ideas.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, November 8, 2003 01:06:44 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Hey guys!
I'm not in on the current topic, but I do have a post. Mostly it's a question - no a plea!! Does anyone like dinosaurs? The reason I ask is I have all of these dinosaur prints that I've got to sell to earn some extra money. I'm running low on cash - literally - even with two jobs. If anyone's curious to see what I have, you could email me and I can send you a file of the images I have and a list of their titles and the sizes and number I have available.
Also, however, if you're interested in commisions for the fandom or anything else, I'm open. Just as long as all requests are clean, modest and not graphic. I'll do scenes for fics if you wish as long as you have good descriptions of all characters. IF you like fantasy all around, I'll do that for you. OR if you want something real life, I'll do that too.
It's just - I'm getting desperate. Two part time jobs just aren't cutting it - especially when one of them is so low on hours that I only work there one day a week. Or, if you're interested in what I've done artwise for the fandom, I can scan some of my images and send those and you can see if you want to buy one off of me - a print of it at least, I try not to sell the originals. Also, I don't think it would be wise to paid commisions of the cannon characters, although I will still do those.
This is probably a bad place and time to post, but I think I'm more familiar with the fandom so it seemed the best place to start.
Anywho . . . just let me know!!

Now . . . um . . . back to the Pendragon discussions. ^_^
SHauntell
Shauntell Holm - [Holmponyfan2@wmconnect.com]
Layton, Ut, USA
Saturday, November 8, 2003 12:51:23 AM
IP: 198.81.26.78

*** No Mercy and Wolves sort-of spoilers ***
Yes, Oak Island is in Canada. It’s got a pit that might contain buried treasure or something, but no one knows exactly what yet. The Money Pit was discovered a couple of hundred years ago, but when people tried to dig it out they found wooden floors spaced about 10 feet below each other and eventually they dug out 90 feet and then the pit started filling with water (which seems to be a booby trap built into the pit on purpose), and it’s been drilled below 90 feet with a probe drill, but not really dug out. Anyway, someone must have taken a lot of trouble to bury and protect whatever is down there.
About Mordred’s speech - Did Arthur realize that the Mordred he is seeing isn’t real? Of course, the fears that Mordred brought up still affected Arthur, but maybe he realized that they’re being created by his own mind. Plus, this Mordred’s origins were in the snow globe, which was Morgana’s. Maybe that’s why he acted and spoke like her first simulacrum.
Question >> Yes, that’s what threw me off about Quetzalcoatl - he said that he had a brother named Tezcatlipoca... but a few lines before that he says he’s a dragon... oops. And I forgot to sign the post. Well, maybe the Huitzilopochtli that’s mentioned in “The Darkest Hour” and Tezcatlipoca aren’t the same in TGS.
*** spoilers end ***
Lurking Echo
Friday, November 7, 2003 10:56:53 PM
IP: 24.191.62.218

re: Mordred's speech> So what you're saying is that despite Arthur's 20-some years of memories of his son back in the middle ages (when Mordred most certainly was *not* speaking in modern slang), when Arthur's mind is made to recreate an image of him, it ignores all that and instead focuses on the version Arthur knew was fake and which he only met for the span of a few hours?

*****SPOILERS************
TGS: Wolves> What I like most about this story is the the way in which is was told. It is filled with detailed descriptions, clever dialog, and suspense. Nothing felt unecessary or out of place. Arthur did not just suddenly decide not to let Mary wander; he actually discusses it with the others and they agree with him before the matter arises. The secondary characters were not dumbed down--they were shown to be rational, with fears we could sympathize with. The story shows good cause and effect (Mary trains and gets bruises, which later impede her escape. The Unseelie once traveled through the land, which makes the villagers suspicious. Merlin uses magic, and we're shown that it comes with a price) and follows up on earlier problems (I'm glad the money issue was brought up again). I like how the law (police) was compared to the 'law of the land', and how Arthur helped bring back some semblance of law to the town by knighting Jill. Still, her knighting seems a little 'spur of the moment'. I also think Arthur's team is a little unbalanced now, with women outnumbering men (this from a man from the Middle Ages where women would never be allowed to fight! I was always a little surprised in the 'Avalon' episodes that Arthur so readily took to the notion of Elisa being a warrior). Though he wasn't as outspoken as Jill, I think her husband should have been knighted with her.

Misc.> Was Oak Island in Canada? Otherwise I agree with Graymonk that it seems like a long way to travel just to take a safe breather between missions. I love some of the lines in this fic ("If you wish to murder them, I must insist that you murder me too. And I would take it very much amiss if you tried", the jab at the English (can't believe this came from Ed!), and basically everything said by the vampyre-fanatic). I found it a little jarring when Mary and Arthur kept announcing to people that Merlin was her 'boyfriend' (what's that oldies song? 'My boyfriend's back and you're gonna be in trouble...'?). I also think that the crowd's rage was difused a bit too quickly. One minute they're shooting at Mary, and then suddenly they all drop their weapons and refuse to harm Wolf (when they knew he was the one to kill their sheep). I would have thought that at the very least, they would have agreed to torture him a little. >;) I did, however, love having the characters describe and encounter Wolf, from the POV of one who's never met him before (when we readers have). Little surprises like that are fun. Mary's announcement at the end seemed a little sudden (her thoughts should be on Merlin and the Grail Quest, not on her next Sierra Club meeting). I guess it was to show the transition to her future self, but I really hope this new obsession doesn't become a recurring topic in the series. Anyways, as I've said before, I really enjoyed this fic, and hope all subsequent ones continue to be of this calibur.
*************************
Vashkoda
Friday, November 7, 2003 09:48:30 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

GRAYMONK - For a start, I'd like to thank you for your reviews. I always look forward to reading them, since you give probably the most in-depth and detailed ones for our TGS stories here. (The only real complaint that I have about them is a number of typos and mispellings, and that probably comes more from having to write hurriedly.)

In response to some of your remarks:

Sorry about not doing more with Oak Island in "No Mercy" - I did wonder about that, but ultimately since the big issue was Arthur's internal conflict, I suppose that we had to put the Oak Island Mystery to one side. In retrospect, it might have worked better as an "en route" story like "Flight from the Enchanter" rather than one set at a "Grail site".

As for Mordred, you don't need to worry about him coming back; I saw this episode as his exorcism, so to speak. Arthur will have other "demons from his past" to confront - Morgana obviously - but Mordred's gone for good.

And, yes, I should have found a more convincing defense for Arthur's treatment of his nephews. Thanks for pointing that out.

Sorry about the lack of pictures. Our artist assigned for that story got a bit mixed up and thought that it was due for next week.

I first became acquainted with King Pellinor via T. H. White (whose work "Camelot" was based on), so I have a soft spot for the Pellinor that you describe, but he was indeed more of a stalwart warrior in Malory. All the same, I couldn't resist including a reference to White's Pellinor by giving him the brachet (a hunting dog, which accompanies Pellinor in T. H. White's "The Sword in the Stone", ostensibly to help him in his pursuit of the Questing Beast, but which isn't particularly interested in the Beast at all).

I will confess that I'd never even heard of the particular super-hero stories that you mentioned, let alone be influenced by them when writing "No Mercy". There was a bit of influence, though, from the "New Batman/Superman Adventures" story "Over the Edge", however, in the form of Mary's death and Nigel angrily seeking vengeance upon Arthur and the London clan for it.

(I'm quite surprised, actually, that nobody here has mentioned the most obvious literary influence/inspiration for "No Mercy" - which does seem pretty clear when you analyze the three different destinations that Mordred takes Arthur to in his three different dreams - unless everyone here thought that it was so obvious that they didn't need to mention it.)

WOLVES: Sorry that you didn't like this one as much, Graymonk. While most of the details in the story were Ed's, I did come up with the basics of the Ultra-Pack's presence. My own thoughts on the matter when I wrote the outline were that Wolf had temporarily been separated from the Ultra-Pack in the course of some mission or other, come upon the sheep in Yellow Oak, and started eating them because he was hungry, and that the rest of the Ultra-Pack showed up because they were looking for him. Sorry if we didn't make that clear enough.

Re your remarks about Rufus: by "Andrew", did you mean the character in "Buffy" (the only member of the "Evil Nerd Triad" to survive)?

I'm afraid that Sam and Diane aren't the first names that pop into my head whenever I think of Merlin and Mary's relationship, largely because I never watched "Cheers". The comparison that I used for them was Benedick and Beatrice from "Much Ado About Nothing" instead. (I guess that it shows my limitations, that I can comprehend something better if it's a Shakespeare reference as opposed to a sit-com reference. :) ).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, November 7, 2003 09:27:55 PM
IP: 63.186.1.223

Fire Storm> <<but how can you NOT think that clowns are evil?>>
It's not that I don't think that they're evil, it's that I don't have voices in my head telling me to kill them all.

<<and make obscene things with balloons!>>
Since when do you have a problem with that?
________________
Gside> <<Last I heard, Fire Storm had been somewhat guarding his last name for esthetic reasons.>>
Not very well. Granted, I forgot it years ago, but still... (Unless he _made_ me forget it somehow.)
_________________
Spacebabie> <<ANGEL-I wasn’t really too fond of last night’s episode.>>
But it was funny. *giggles* Mexican wrestlers. Priceless.
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, November 7, 2003 09:06:43 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

*****REVIEWAPALOOZA! WATCHOUT! SPOILERS FOR "NO MERCY," "WOLVES," AND THE MATRIX REVOLOUTIONS"*****

"No Mercy": A bit of a step down form last week's, but then "The Gathering Part 1" wasn't quite as good as "Future Tense."

And speaking of "Future Tense" ...

THE GOOD: The future sequence was one of the more disturbing scenes I've ever seen in a TGS story. It was certainly a nightmareish scenario but it did underscore the good our characters have acomplished. The idea that Lucius could become a national menace if no one were there to stop him certainly cast a new shadow over his previous appearances. "Giants of the Earth" alone suddenly took on a different tone when I realised what would have happened if those giants had gotten loose.

-The future sequence also brings in several new elements that could make for interesting stories in the future; Jennifer starting a new company that Montrose goes after, the status of the vampyres (after having been built up into such a major threat in this story I hope we see this issue adressed in either this or next season, maybe we can finally get some insight into Leba's background) and of course the idea of a second, worse Wicked Day. I'd always assumed that this time Arthur's legend would get a happy ending. Suddenly a tragic conclusion to the PENDRAGON saga seems more and more likely. After all, we only know for sure that Merlin and Mary make it out alive, and for some reason they make alomst no mention of Arthur, his knights or magic in their future daily lives (maybe because the memories are too painful?)

-The present day vision. It was even more disturbing than the future sequence because it was so plausible. I could easily see something like this happening on a mission. Arthur had better be REAL careful about Mary, otherwise Nigel could quite easily go around the bend.

-The flashback filling in the blanks. There were a few unanswered questioned about why Arthur slept with Morgause, how she felt about Arthur and Mordred's past left over from the Season 1 flashbacks. Good to get a few answers to them.

-Consequences. I'm glad there were sideeffects to smashing Morgana's snow globe as there were with Mary smashing the statuette. Makes magic seem more consistent.

-The story took place in Canada, and in my region. I was tickled pink.

THE BAD: -No explanation about the money pit. I never really understood what the money pit was or it's connection to the grail was. And I live in eastern Canada, i can only imagine how folks in other parts of the world felt.

-Sybil being so easily cowed. As others have said, Sybil seems too tough to be frightened by the threat of being left tied up outside. Especially when Merlin could probably have secured her aid by mentioning that Arthur under Mordred's influence had just been planning to kill her.

-Whiel I understand Mordered was the onecontrolling the flashback, and that he was trying to make Arthur look as bad as possible, I wish Arthur had been able to provide more of a counter arguement for why he spared his nephews. As it is Arthur came off looking like exactly what Mordred said he is; a pompous hyppocrite (sp?)

-Three Mordreds in one season. It feels like too much. As I said before, Mordred works well in small doses. I realise why he was in this story but unless he's coming back to life at the end of the season to become PENDRAGON'S big bad I don't see want to see anymore of him this year.

-No pictures. I don't normally complain about this, i know how hard it is to get a really good picture in on time but if any story needed illustrations this was it. Pictures of Dulci and Roary fighting vampyres, or the alliance of evil, would have been particularily welcome.

THE MISC: -When I think of Pellinore I think of the bumbling, frail, lovable goof form "Camelot." It's wierd to think of him as a rough and tumble warrior. Ilike it.

-While "Futur Tense" was the obivous inspiration I found some elements similar to other nightmare future stories. Montrose, Mordred and Lucius working together reminded me of the Kingpin/Green Goblin/Spider Carnage allaince from the 90's "Spider-Man" cartoon while the idea of Arthur is eerily similar to Superman commiting suicide after Lois Lane died in "Rock of Ages."

BOTTOM LINE: 8.5 tied up Sybils out of 10.

VASH - <<At the very least, [Mordred] should have spoken in a more stilted and formal tone, like Goliath or even Arthur himself.>> Except this Mordred was a construct of Arthur's mind and Arthur has been out in the modern world for several years now. He's heard other people use modern slang, even if he doesn't use it himself. Therefore, it makes sense that a Mordred that his mind produced would be speak like that if Arthur thinks of Mordred as speaking very informally.

"Wolves"

Todd - <<I'm glad that everyone here who's posted about it as yet enjoyed "Wolves">> Sorry, I'm going to have to break with the majority of readers who've posted. While this story had a few good moments I found it a bit of a dissapointment after the streak of outstanding episodes PENDRAGON has had lately (I haven't seen such a consistent stream of quality since the stretch between "In the Blood" and "Re-Emergence part3" in GARGS Season 2)

THE BAD: -A word about geography, Canada is big, we're as long across as the USA. Northern Ontario is half a contignent away from Nova Scotia. If money and time are an issue for Arthur it doesn't make much sense for him to travel all that distance for no other reason than to wait for new info from Leba. They could've done that in Nova Scotia, or New Brunswick, or Newfoundland, or PEI, or Quebec, or maine if they were trying to give the Illuminati the slip. Yes, their next stop is in New Zealand, but the story makes it clear that they didn't know that when they came to the town. As far as I know there are still wolves on the mainland maritimes. This story could just as easily have taken place in NS, albeit possibly with a slightly different kind of slaughtered livestock. Frankly it seems like the only reason why this story took place where it did was so the first Canadian knight would be from central Canada.

-No explanation for why the Unsilee came to the town. It's a good idea, it certainly allowed the villager's believing Mary to be a werewolf to seem more credible there was never any explanation about why they would come to a small town like that. "Darkest Hour" established that The Unsilee hit only places that had gargoyle clans or had Avalon's magic footprint on them. Since there was no Canadian clan at the Coucil of Clans the implication is that at some point someone came there via Avalon, but there is never any explanation of who or why.

-Why were Jackal and Wolf in the village anyway? Are they on vacation? Did Tahilog send them there? Is this somehow connected to why the Unsilee went there (jeez I'm starting to sound like the posters in the S8 chat that's going on now:))

THE GOOD: -Jill becoming a knight. Despite my problems with the geography of the story I like the idea of there being a knight in Canada watching North America for any strange phenomena that might warrant Arthur's attention. I also like the implications that Arthur is restructuring his knighthood to become more internationally focused. It now seems that he will be establishing knights around the world and that Dulci and Rory will be returning to their home countires to keep an eye on them. Sort of like a planetary Green Lantern Corps. It's a neat way to keep Rory, Dulci and Leba in the series without having the main cast get too big to manage.

-Another story set in Canada.

-Jill. She's obviously quite perceptive and a seems like a good person. I've noticed that, with the exceptions of Rory and Griff, Arthur's knights are all ordinary women who do their best to do the right thing because it is the right thing.

-It's good to see the presumed orgins of Mary's pro-wolf activism.

-Rufus and his theories. The man was a riot, PENDRAGON'S very own Andrew.

6 Alien werewolves that turn into vampires when they're dead out of ten.

THE MATRIX REVOLOUTIONS (huge @$$ SPOILERS, TURN BACK NOW!)

I went to see this with some firends (Hell, nearly my entire department) on Wednesday and I loved it.

THE GOOD: I loved Neo's conversation with the power plant program that was smuggling his daughter into the matrix. When Reloaded introduced the idea of sentient I thought it was a neat concept but that scene got me emotionally involved with it. Here was this guy who was never going to see his child again because she was ostensibly useless abd he's taking time out of his own problems to comfort some poor schlub he met for a few seconds a few days earlier. I pitited and admired him at the same time.

-Trinity's reaction to the Mirovingean's "bring me the eyes of the Oracle" proposal. Nice to see someone put that man in his place. I'm just sorry we never got to see Smith take him over.

-Smith's visit to the Oracle. "You're a bastard" "You would know, mom."

-The real world fight between Neo and Smith. Unlike any Matirx fight seen ever. No slo-mo, no back flips, just two guys beating the crap out of each other. And talk about brutal, I nearly screamed when Smith shoved that wire in Neo's face. The actor playing Smith was incredible, for a second I thought he was Hugo Weaving with a different hair cut he was that spot-on.

-The battle for Xion. "The Two Towers" battle of Helmsdeep, with robots :)

-When the Logos wen over the clouds and Trinity saw the sun. Carrie Anne Moss's (that's the actress's mane right?)
conveyed how much it meant to Trinity to see it.

-Trinity's death scene. I nearly cried.

-The final battle with Smith. They used the expanding water bubble too much is the only bad thing I can say about it. Incredible. And the CGI Neo and Smith looked like real people most of the time, as opposed to their Reloaded battle where it was blatantly obvious when one was CGI. I particularly liked the part in the wharehouse with the lightening. The music for it was incredible too.

-Neo's answer to Smith's question about why he kept fighting; "Because I choose to."

-The Arcitecht's reacttion when the Oracle asked him if the machines would keep their word.

-The fact that the war could start again. The only reason it doesn't is because both sides *choose* not to let it happen. It really re-enforces the central theme of the story.

THE BAD: I'm sure there was something about it i didn't like but I'm blanking for now.

BOTTOM LINE: 10 cookies out of 10 (and shame on Smith for throwing them accross the room).

****End SPOILERS FOR PENDRAGON AND MATRIX REVOLOUTIONS****

DPH - <<I. Want. My. Sanity. Back. NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>> Boy did you come to the wrong place ;)

Ed - <<Lain and Gunjack are pulling out all stops for a sizzling debut season of ‘Bad Guys’ next year.>> I cannot wait to read it.

Todd - <<Incidentally, the "younger races" bit was actually a borrowing (or theft, take your pick) from "Babylon 5", where the Shadows and Vorlons used the same term for humans, Centauri, Narns, etc.>> I wondered about that. Given the similarities between the SUW and the Shadow War there seem to be a number of Babylon 5 fans on the TGS staff.

<> I'd worry more about being accused of ripping off Sam and Diane :)

<<It had Arthur and Co. come upon some orphaned wolf cubs (whose parents had been shot) and deciding upon Mary's insistence to look after them. When they return to England with the wolf cubs, Nigel Sefton sees the cubs trotting along after Mary and stares at the sight in horror, jaw dropping. Mary says to him quickly, "This isn't what it looks like, father.">> *Graymonk dies laughing.*
Graymonk' - [mmckinnongra@hotmail.com]
Friday, November 7, 2003 08:48:38 PM
IP: 198.164.140.103

Greg's in the station 8 chat
click my name to go
Sean
Friday, November 7, 2003 07:47:51 PM
IP: 207.6.149.113

Lynati: I assume that was "last" as in "most recent" not as in "final".

But either way, 'Dark Ages' is in development alongside 'Gargoyles'. Season 5 'Timedancer' and 'Pendragon' currently aren't. I think the plan is still to launch the recruitment drive for the new 'Pendragon' to coincide with the season finale though.
Ed
Friday, November 7, 2003 07:08:39 PM
IP: 213.187.38.21

lynati>> re: storyseeker <<No>> depends on what the question is. im unsure if storyseeker is saying that "the last season that was shown was supposed to be the last", or if they mean "wasn't that season the last one to be shown".
in any case, storyseeker, the answer is yes, "timedancer" was the last to run before "pendragon" started - but no, as lynati says, that season of "timedancer" is not the final one. there is quite a bit more that needs to happen before its grand finale.

i completely skipped over your post earlier today, storyseeker. you use the same posting colour as me, and i thought it was my post! guess ill have to start using my flamey thing in all my posts again..
lain
Friday, November 7, 2003 07:04:54 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

storyseeker: [Tiemdancer] No. If you read the season, you'd notice that it leaves off when the twins are young and Brooklyn and his family are still in the future. The remaining years of his traveling forty have yet to shown. And they will be.
Lynati
Friday, November 7, 2003 06:48:21 PM
IP: 67.64.41.243

QUESTION - When was it ever stated that Huitzilopochtli was Quetzalcoatl's brother in the TGS Universe? How do you know that the Aztecs weren't mistaken about that?
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, November 7, 2003 06:12:46 PM
IP: 63.186.1.223

New on my site is "The Guardians: The Nature of Evil," in which the hatchlings go on a camp-out. Also, a picture of Icarus for the Gallery! Click or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html
Christine - [<---- new story!]
Friday, November 7, 2003 05:46:15 PM
IP: 208.186.188.253

Todd Jensen<Quetzalcoatl is a dragon, not a fay. Read "The Dragon's Treasure" again more carefully>

If he isn't a fay then why is his brother Huitzilopochtli running around as one of Madoc Morfryn's Unseelie Lords?
Question
Friday, November 7, 2003 10:34:41 AM
IP: 144.92.164.204

lain: <uh.. not any dates as of yet. "bad guys" is slated to run next and then main cycle gargoyles, i think. after that, it will either be "timedancer" or "dark ages", depending on interest and/or breakdowns/writing speed>

But the last series of Timedancer was just shown wasn't it?

Ed: 

Like I said, I doubt Morgana would ever truly forgive Merlin either since she's lived so long with her hatred and what he did was pretty nasty. But then again, she has shown some remarkable compassion since meeting Mary so who knows? Maybe she could achieve some peace one day and in some odd way, help Merlin to heal?
Storyseeker - [Storyseeker.1@btopenworld.com]
Birmingham, UK
Friday, November 7, 2003 04:41:01 AM
IP: 217.150.117.210

Interesting day for me! I woke up realizing my problem in java, and fixed it. Class got out early, and there was no lab due for my lab (which is right after my java class on thurs), and we're not required to attend at all, so we skipped. Then, in Western Civ, I had to hand in my paper (ugh), and take notes for 3 people who were going to miss class...my had was killing me...I STILL have red marks and grooves in my fingers from the pen.

But the most fun part! About an hour ago, the fire alarm goes off! But this was no drill, apparently, the elevator at the top floor of the other tower (did I tell you guys about my towers? And their whacked out names?) caught fire! People were outside in their Pj's, and some without shoes (makes me glad I have a cheap pair of sandals to wear for times like these!). We were out of our dorms a good 40 minutes, but that was shorter than they anticipated, which is good. but my day had been most interesting. Now I have the whole weekend off, though I need to do some work on the timeline, and I'm going bowling as well.

I'm going to shut up now.
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Friday, November 7, 2003 02:30:34 AM
IP: 130.111.154.169

Gside: <Eat them to give them a final resting place>
That's just wrong! Humans, yes. Animals, yes. But... insects? HELL NO!
<You couldn't just remove their voicebox, or is there a particular fatal procedure you must follow?>
Well, I COULD remove their voice box and let them live, but really, where's the fun in that?
<But pork's been advertising more.>
Yes, that's true... Hmm... Well, all we really need is one REALLY bad news report against pork and we are all set.

Well, LM was offended by that, and I just want to ask: Huh? Was that a Detroit joke?
<And someone please tell me there is supposed to be a real white sauce to go with the second course>
"Why does my milkshake taste salty?"

There is, but my city got by that law by bussing them in from the other side of the city. They tried their best to keep the scientists out of the area.
<Ooh, did you get my good side? Can I get prints? I'll split the porn site income with you>
As soon as I get a few more for my "Fans of TGS" calendar.
<And I only just discovered it.>
Then we are even
<And I like just doing for titleless last names. Quite often, they're more unique than first names>
Yeah, but for me it's a little more important to remember first names, so I prioritized. I need all the room I can get for other trivia and whatnot.
<But the recent 1337 was generated without Largo to watch over it>
This is true. Piro is becoming one with the way of the l33t too.
<You forgot all the moreality plays in the orginal series.>
Never was one for the original series.
< Too bad you have to share it. Or have you already hired the assassin. I need to double check my traps anyway>
For now, there is room for two gods.
<So that'd leave me as the Mu and the Nu, the Inbetweener of databases?>
Sure, why not. BTW... have you done any uploading of data yet?
<I've always wanted to be a near all powerful fat blue thing>
You wanted to be a Smurf?

lain: <youre geeky>
Why thank you!
Fire Storm
Friday, November 7, 2003 01:58:49 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Fire Storm> <>: Too bad you have to share it. Or have you already hired the assassin. I need to double check my traps anyway.
<>: So that'd leave me as the Mu and the Nu, the Inbetweener of databases? At least I've always wanted to be a near all powerful fat blue thing (Did you know there was a Chrono Trigger OVA about Nu and Kilwala and the night before the fair?), and mu is the third option for boolean responses.

Andrea> <<then determine if one is greater, less than, or equal ro the other using a compareTo method>>: Just set two floats equal to the divisions of the fractions, compare them, and output -1, 0, or 1 if it's less than, equal, or greater.
float frac1=this.num/this.denom; float frac2=arg.num/arg.denom; if (frac1>frac2) return 1; if (frac1<frac2) return -1; return 0;
Or if you're not supposed to touch floats, I think multiplying each numerator by the other denominator would leave you with a valid integer comparison.
<>: It's just really another way to say function. Or, an easy way to keep doing the same (complicated) set of steps with an easy call. Or from an object oriented point of view, characteristic abilities of the object.

Yggdrasil> <>: Reminds me of Randy Newman, especially the bits about Australia ("don't wanna hurt now kangaroo").

Lain> <<mmmm, sizzle.. we hope>>: Well, at least I know you've got the shishkebobs ready for the grill.
<<hes going to buy the cz and we are going to hang at various gun shows for the others>>: I do believe he's corrupting you.
<<youre geeky>>: Everyone's geeky about something. The only important thing to do is like it.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, November 7, 2003 01:45:33 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

*********WOLVES DISCUSSION************

ed>> <<have you read the newest version?>> yes. <> i think the problem *really* is that there isnt enough buildup - the story feels too short to me in order for such a "mob reaction" to be fesable. <<So it would have grazed her, but not actually caused permanent damage>> thats better. <<It’s a huge season and we’re short-staffed>> just a bit ;) <<But a lot can change in ten months>> one can hope.. <<Lain and Gunjack are pulling out all stops for a sizzling debut season of ‘Bad Guys’ next year>> mmmm, sizzle.. we hope.. <<All the artists have been doing bang-up jobs this season>> when they turn in their art.. heh.. yea.. *hides*

todd>> <> quit apologizing already! <<Of course, if New Yorkers in the Gargoyles Universe can easily be turned into an anti-gargoyle mob...>> as mentioned above, the issue i have that makes it seem so unrealistic to me is the length of the story. if there was a longer period of time to build up such a sense of fear (as there had been in the original series) then it would flow better for me. <<"This isn't what it looks like, father.">> BWA HA!!! that would be amusing.. :)

leo>> <<It just seemed to come out of nowhere>> that too.. but again, more a fault of the length of the story than anything, i think.

************NORMAL BORING DISCUSSION**************

yggdrasil>> thats awesome :) *throughally amused*

i saw this new "tru calling" show tonight. i thought it was dorky. well, the concept was kinda cool, but the acting and some of the writing was *really* bad.. especially tru's blonde stupid-head friend. plus predictable plot elements. all-in-all, not thrilling. ill be sticking with "24" as the one hour of tv i watch per week.

gside>> <<You can see far from that angle?>> yes. <<Assuming you want a shotgun, not rifle, Tommy, or whatnot>> yea, we do. hes going to buy the cz and we are going to hang at various gun shows for the others.

fs>> <> youre geeky..
lain
Thursday, November 6, 2003 10:49:36 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

***TGS SPIOLER for "Wolves"***

The only thing that really botherd me was how quickly Arthur decided to bestow knighthood upun Jill. It didn't appear to me like she had as much involvment in helping Arthur as Dulcina did. It just seemed to come out of nowhere. And I didn't notice much of an apology from her. I must have mised something.

Other than that, It was great. I didn't think of Wolf either.
Leo
Thursday, November 6, 2003 10:28:23 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

ANONYMOUS - Quetzalcoatl is a dragon, not a fay. Read "The Dragon's Treasure" again more carefully.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 6, 2003 09:52:44 PM
IP: 63.186.0.64

Todd Jensen>> wolf cubs >> :D
Storyseeker>> Well, Quetzalcoatl isn't really a dragon. He's a Fay who takes the shape of a dragon.
** Wolves **
Nice story. I had no idea it was Wolf until the end! And the action was a nice break from the Grail quest.
** spoilers end **
Anonymous
Thursday, November 6, 2003 09:39:57 PM
IP: 24.191.62.218

Greetings;

I found this movie on another site. I warn everyone; the language is a bit foul, but the film is extremely funny.

Good Night
Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Thursday, November 6, 2003 09:35:40 PM
IP: 24.100.240.64

*WOLVES COMMENTS *

First off, a slight oops - I'd gotten mixed up in my art comments. It was Karen who did it, not Silver. Sorry about that.

LAIN - Sorry if you didn't like the way that it was done (I hadn't especially thought of Canadians when I had the story idea, only the general issue of "ranchers vs. wolves" that occurs in the U.S. as well - I'd originally thought of having the story set in the northern United States but that didn't work out, though I forget the reason why now). Of course, if New Yorkers in the Gargoyles Universe can easily be turned into an anti-gargoyle mob.... (And one of the key elements of "Gargoyles" was the dangers of fear, prejudice, and xenophobia.)

As a side-note, an odd little creativity demon popped into my head when I first came up with the core concept for the story, though it was one that I never even considered actually taking place in "Wolves". It had Arthur and Co. come upon some orphaned wolf cubs (whose parents had been shot) and deciding upon Mary's insistence to look after them. When they return to England with the wolf cubs, Nigel Sefton sees the cubs trotting along after Mary and stares at the sight in horror, jaw dropping. Mary says to him quickly, "This isn't what it looks like, father."

* COMMENTS END *
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 6, 2003 07:57:32 PM
IP: 63.186.0.64

***TGS COMMENTS – INCLUDES “WOLVES” SPOILERS***

Storyseeker: Fascinating post. I love your idea about Merlin needing forgiveness from Morgana. I think Morgana is too died-in-the-wool with her beliefs to ever be likely to forgive Merlin, and we did see him make the effort in “Home for the Holidays”. It’s also interesting to see someone siding with Merlin on the “Flight from the Enchanter” issue. Both these issues, and others that you mention, will definitely rear their ugly heads again sooner or later.

‘Gargoyles’ is being written. ‘Dark Ages’ is being outlined. I think it would be nice to launch ‘Gargoyles’ on the show’s tenth anniversary but this isn’t at all reflective of staff plans. My hunch, based on the current rate of progress, is that it won’t be ready by then. It’s a huge season and we’re short-staffed. But a lot can change in ten months.

There’s plenty of TGS coming in the meantime though. There’s still another month or so of ‘Pendragon’ to air and the best is yet to come. Also, Lain and Gunjack are pulling out all stops for a sizzling debut season of ‘Bad Guys’ next year.

Spacebabie: Thanks for the TGS comments. The White Knight was never a part of the Round Table though, of course.

Vinnie: I think you’re probably right about Arthur intervening in the mob. An admission here: the resolution of this scene is something that I decided on the spur of the moment while rewriting the scene. The original ending has Arthur distracting the mob with the wolf-man while Griff sneaks Mary and Merlin to safety. But in the end, I thought we’d undermined Arthur’s confidence enough in the last couple of episodes and I thought we should show a more clear-cut victory.

Lain: Thanks for commenting. I tend to agree with your doubts, but have you read the newest version? Since the last version you read, I spent a lot of time trying to rationalise the mob mentality for precisely the reasons you mentioned – while the mob was critical to the story, it didn’t feel natural to me. I always wanted this to be a story about paranoia and how rational concerns can be channelled into irrational behaviour, but I don’t think this was really brought out in the writing until recent drafts. Interesting point about the paw and the bullet. I figured it was shot from a long distance and didn’t actually hit her hand (Mary is exaggerating when she says it “blasted through [her] hand”) but sped past her. So it would have grazed her, but not actually caused permanent damage. I’ve no idea how realistic this is, of course.

Todd: Thanks. It was quite fun to write an episode that you outlined for a change, as well. I think I've now written for every 'Pendragon' outliner we had this season. :)

And I agree that Karen did an amazing job with the art, as usual. All the artists have been doing bang-up jobs this season, IMO.

***SPOILERS END***
Ed
Cambridge, England
Thursday, November 6, 2003 06:03:22 PM
IP: 131.111.8.101

there should be a

***SPOILERS***

below in there. sorry, its been so long since i talked about anything requiring spoiler alerts..
lain
Thursday, November 6, 2003 04:43:29 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

todd>> <<I'm glad that everyone here who's posted about it as yet enjoyed "Wolves". I had a lot of fun coming up with the idea and turning it into an outline>> dont get all angsty now bit im sorry, i just still really dont like this story. its mostly the old "mob of canadians with pre-lit torches" issue.. you know the one.. i dont feel we need to get into a big argey-bargey over it again tho ;) <<The bit about Mary getting shot in the hand in her wolf-form and Jill suspecting her to be a werewolf when she sees her in human form with a hand wound is based on a traditional folklore motif where a werewolf, witch, or other shape-shifter gets identified the same way>> i hadnt connected that part to the story and, though i see the idea.. i think having her get shot that way was highly unrealistic and doesnt seem really practical to me (the shot would have probably taken off her whole leg - or at least paw, not just "wounded" her). however, i dont know what else less icky i could have suggested instead.. its a neat connection, so i guess ill do my best to give you some creative space. <<I'd also like to thank Silver for her fine picture of Mary>> yes, it is most excellent.

storyseeker>> <<It might make way for another war that'll [make, presumably] the Unseelie war look like a summer picnic [heh heh]>> i dont think that would be very difficult.. :P <<Anyone have any idea when the next series of 'Dark Ages' or Gargoyles is coming out?>> uh.. not any dates as of yet. "bad guys" is slated to run next and then main cycle gargoyles, i think. after that, it will either be "timedancer" or "dark ages", depending on interest and/or breakdowns/writing speed.
lain
Thursday, November 6, 2003 04:31:52 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Wolves Spoilers:

It was a nice break from the normal action packed Grail Quest, and it was nice to see Wolf again.
It was definitely an interesting way to make Mary an Activist, personally I would like to see Mary clash with some radical activists.
The only part that I have trouble believing in was when Arthur confronted the mob attacking Mary and Merlin. I don't believe that even King Arthur disburse a mob like that, not without more casualties that is.

END!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Thursday, November 6, 2003 03:23:08 PM
IP: 216.234.99.39

Wish I can post a bit more... :::Huggles Revel:::
SPOILERS_________________________

TGS

FLIGHT-Both Arthur and Jennifer were trying to do what they felt was best with the outcome not being very happy. It’s an nice twist and it shows the bad guys can win without the series ending.
I am curious whether there are colors associating with other members of the Round table?

NO MERCY-Kind of trippy, in the same way Future Tense was kind of Trippy, Glad Arthur cam to his senses at the end and I cant was to see the next confrontation between sSybil and Morganna

WOLVES-I had a slight feeling this was going to the story that motivates Maryinto becoming a crusader for wolves. I should have figure the man wolf thing was Wolf when he and Griff were fighting, but it didn’t dawn on me until he spoke.

END TGS part of Spoilers

SMALLVILLE- Heh one had to figure a mayor played by William B Davis had to be up to something bad, and hey we got some flying.

ANGEL-I wasn’t really too fond of last night’s episode. It was the old hero being burned out turns to an old hero to help fight an evil and finally finds his spark again.
__________________SPOILERS END

My next post will contain actual replies

Hugs Revel again.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Thursday, November 6, 2003 12:56:29 PM
IP: 4.72.104.218

* WOLVES SPOILERS (OF A SORT) *

I'm glad that everyone here who's posted about it as yet enjoyed "Wolves". I had a lot of fun coming up with the idea and turning it into an outline.

The inspiration for the story was a reflection on my part that, in some ways, wolves are close to a real-life parallel to gargoyles, in that they are feared by humans and are often the subject of dark legends (such as werewolves). That gave me the idea for a story involving the human fear of wolves, which quickly wound up being a "Pendragon" story because of Mary's being a werewolf. Naturally, Wolf became an obvious candidate for the antagonist (the only difficulty we had being a way of making it clear to the audience that it was Wolf, since Arthur and his companions had never encountered him before, but I think that we still managed to pull it off).

The bit about Mary getting shot in the hand in her wolf-form and Jill suspecting her to be a werewolf when she sees her in human form with a hand wound is based on a traditional folklore motif where a werewolf, witch, or other shape-shifter gets identified the same way. (There's even an updated version of the story out there that I read once in a book about urban legends, where an old woman who lives alone one day finds a masked and hooded man, clearly a burglar, trying to break into her house. Fortunately she has the presence of mind to scare him off with a hot poker from the fireplace which burns him on the hand. She heads over to the neighbors to warn them about a burglar in the area, only to be met by the wife at the door who says that her husband can't talk to her right now; he's got a nasty burn on his hand.)

I'll confess that Merlin's awe-inspiring magical display when he rushes to Mary's rescue was partly influenced by the scene in "Buffy" where Glory drains Tara of her sanity and Willow promptly goes after Glory in a vengeful fury with such intensity that her approach causes Glory to say, "All right, who ordered the apocalypse?" I'll admit that having Merlin doing anything Willow-ish is a bit risky - I had fears for a long time that people would see his relationship with Mary as a rip-off of Willow and Oz - but I thought that it worked here.

I'd like to thank Ed for the fine job that he did in actually writing the story, in the course of which he came up with a few ideas of his own to strengthen it, such as the Unseelie-caused damage - which helped make it more believable that the villagers would suspect Mary of being a werewolf, after having gotten a glimpse of the magical aspects of the Gargoyles Universe - and Arthur making Jill a knight. I'd also like to thank Silver for her fine picture of Mary (who does look rather vampire-ish in it, incidentally - it's the combination of her pallor and her facial expression, I believe).

* COMMENTS END *
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 6, 2003 07:43:18 AM
IP: 63.186.1.128

I enjoyed the newest addition of Pendragon! I never guessed it was Wolf until the end when the pack rescued him, I just assumed he was abother wolf-man or something.

I've really been enjoying all the Pendragon tales so far, especially the ones with Morgana in them. Like Demona, you can't help but feel sorry for her and her demented mind.

You know what I thought would be cool? What if... to use the Grail, Merlin had to achieve forgiveness from Morgana? I mean, I know what Merlin did, he did for the greater good but even so... I've always thought that no matter how great the good, the end never justifies the means. Merlin may have given life to the greatest warrior and king ever, but at the same time, he destroyed the life of one innocent girl who grew up and became one of the most powerful dark sorceresses ever. So I think that if he were to use something like the Holy Grail, he would have to redeem himself, and for that he would need forgiveness from the person that he wronged. That would be terrifically ironic!

I doubt Morgana would give her forgiveness, but then again... she has been showing some compassion since meeting Mary so who knows? Maybe Mary will melt her heart and get her to forgive him for her sake?

The other things that got my attention the most was where Arthur stopped the sacrifice in 'Flight from The Enchanter.' I know I just said I don't believe the means ever justify the ends, but even so the people apparently were willing to give up their lives. I agree with Merlin's assessment that nothing good will come from Arthur's intereference in it and I have a feeling it's going to come back and haunt him.

The idea of Isfet's father, Apep the Dragon king, being released definitely has promise! It might make way for another war that'll the Unseelie war look like a summer picnic [heh heh].

I wonder about that other dragon though, Quetzalcoatl. I mean, if Apep is the high dragon king, all-powerful and all that among Dragons then whose side would Quetzalcoatl be on if and when Apep is released?! Would he dare risk go against his lord?

The Godslayer might make a comeback sometime? I hope so anyway, as I would have liked to have seen what would happen if the Godslayer and Excalibur had come together?!

Anyone have any idea when the next series of 'Dark Ages' or Gargoyles is coming out?
Storyseeker - [Storyseeker.1@btopenworld.com]
Birmingham, UK
Thursday, November 6, 2003 04:22:17 AM
IP: 217.150.100.2

Java class is EVIL! I have 2/3 of the next assignment done (due in about 9 1/2 hours), but I cant seen to get the last part right. We have to input 2 fractions (got that part), then determine if one is greater, less than, or equal ro the other using a compareTo method. I just have no idea what to put in that method (I STILL don't fully understand methods, even after spending like 3 weeks on that damn Roman Numeral Calculator). But I have the other 2 parts of the assignment done (one involving a GUI, which we havent even TOUCHED in class), so I'm somewhat happy.

And I'm happy since me and my friend Charles and his GF (and maybe a few others) are goinging bowling this weekend! Fun fun fun! And not cheap 10-pin either...Candlepin kicks ASS!
Andrea - [takarifreak@dark-stars.net]
Thursday, November 6, 2003 02:24:47 AM
IP: 130.111.154.169

Gside: <Fire Storm and I now have passwords>
I... I have the power! This is the first time that I have WILLINGLY been given the power of the admin! In the past, I have stolen or hacked my way into root access, but this time... it was GIVEN to me! This power feels... CONSUMING! I can feel it even now, coursing throughout my body, empowering me with the strength and abilities that I have only dreamed of in the past.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Creator and Destroyer of databases.
I have become root, shatterer of databases.

Ph34r the P0\/\/3r!

(As for the Oppenheimer quote, I could have sworn that the full text of what he actually said was about 3 sentances, but I was only able to find the one. Also, it's amazing how many times, and on how many sites, the search engine pulled up the TGS story "I am become death")
Fire Storm the R00T
Thursday, November 6, 2003 12:38:48 AM
IP: 68.248.27.121

Lain> <<looked down the barrel from the ejection port>>: You can see far from that angle?
<<he used my pajama boxers to polish the barrel>>: Kinky.
<<then went into the bathroom and posed with it in front of the mirror>>: You talking to me?
<<it will do quite nicely for TGS art research>>: Assuming you want a shotgun, not rifle, Tommy, or whatnot.
<<except for the part where it has to be pointed at you in order to draw it from the right angle>>: In front of a timed camer to take a reference picture?

And to clarify, there is now an SQL database dedicated to TGS, to which Fire Storm and I now have passwords. And I just noticed that I forgot to thank Guandalug for setting it up.

Thank you Guandalug

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 11:58:40 PM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Todd/Vash: The vision-Mordred is entirely consistent with the last 'Mordred' that Arthur encountered, which was Seabairn in "The Once and Future King". And since Mordred begins by acknowledging his past reappearances, Seabairn the simulacrum (half-)included, I still don't see this as an issue. Mordred has never been especially stilted in his speech, that just isn't his style.
Ed
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 07:47:44 PM
IP: 131.111.8.101

We have SQL.
Fire Storm, I've already forwarded you the login information.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 06:18:48 PM
IP: 68.37.159.199

VASH - Sorry about that; the point that you mention was one that completely slipped past Ed and myself when we were working on the story. The best that I can say is that Arthur's critical faculties might have been somewhat numbed during the dream sequences. (Come to think of it, the same thing must have happened to Goliath in "Future Tense", since a lot of the things that were going on it were improbable - Xanatos acting like a conventional Saturday morning cartoon super-villain instead of his much more subtle self, everybody knowing that Goliath had the Phoenix Gate, and all that trouble going on in New York for over 30 years without Avalon sending Goliath there long before.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 07:48:14 AM
IP: 63.186.1.213

gside>> <<Do share it with us>> well, he came in the door yelling "is 24 on?!?!?! what did i miss?!?!?!" then he watched 24 for 2 commercial breaks before noticing it leaning against the wall. then he emitted a high-pitched yelping sound and nearly fell off the bed and commences spluttering things like "oh my GOD! is that REAL?! where did you GET it?!?! GIMME!" etc. then we checked it over throughally about 4 times to make sure it wasnt loaded (yanked the pump back and looked down the barrel from the ejection port, and checked the magazine dohickey). then he played with it a lot, making "oooooo, isnt that niiiiice" comments *every.. single.. time* he pumped it. then we made redneck computer jokes about the definition of a "double-click".. "when ya REALLY mean business" (note: this must be said in a thick, drawling, partially slurred southern accent for full effect).
then 24 came back on and i had to confiscate it or he would have been clicking it all over the place for the whole rest of the show. i practically had to sit on it. he demanded it back at the next commercial break.
lather, rinse, repeat.
after the show was over, he used my pajama boxers to polish the barrel, and then went into the bathroom and posed with it in front of the mirror.
its a pretty nice shotgun (in my most humble completely uninformed opinion). it has an extra pistol-grip on the pump, so its not quite right, and its not a mossberg but, it will do quite nicely for TGS art research, right revel? ;)
.. except for the part where it has to be pointed at you in order to draw it from the right angle.. which i was very brave and found out was highly unpleasant.

lain iwakura
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 04:21:30 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Lain>: Do share it with us.

Fire Storm> <>: Eat them to give them a final resting place.
<<All of the lambs had to be silenced>>: You couldn't just remove their voicebox, or is there a particular fatal procedure you must follow?
<<People think that chicken is healthier>>: But pork's been advertising more.
<>: I guess you live in the right area to exercise your dirty little mind.
<<But she looked so sexy>>: And someone please tell me there is supposed to be a real white sauce to go with the second course.
<<Never even knew if we had a local mad scientist>>: I thought it was a law that one school in however large a radius had to employ a mad scientist.
<<Yes, and I have the pictures to prove it too>>: Ooh, did you get my good side? Can I get prints? I'll split the porn site income with you.
<<And my parents made me sick of hash>>: And I only just discovered it.
<>: And I like just doing for titleless last names. Quite often, they're more unique than first names
<<At first, the l33t in Megatokyo was hard to read. And now... I speak it. Ph34r>>: But the recent 1337 was generated without Largo to watch over it.
<<so I can't think of much right now>>: You forgot all the moreality plays in the orginal series.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 01:28:21 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Reposted from Station 8:

Okay, Vash, you asked for it...

I'll stop by the Station 8 CHAT ROOM this Friday, November 7th, 2003 at 4pm PST. (That's 7pm on the East Coast. The rest of you figure out your own time zone.)

Please spread the word. (Nothing's more depressing than when the so-called "pro" stops by and there are no fans who want to chat.) Maybe we can get a big crowd and hang for a bit.

Hope to see you there,
Greg Weisman
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 06:21:29 PM
IP: 66.81.244.252
Leo
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 01:16:30 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Ed> "I think strong dramatic scenes are generally more important than a water-tight plot": Well be that as it may, I much prefer fics like "Wolves" to "No Mercy". I think it's one of my faves of the season, though a review will have to wait til I've had more sleep. As for the 'Old English' (or Latin or whatever), my point was that Mordred shouldn't be speaking in slang. If Mordred really *had* come back, he wouldn't have had time to make the transition to the modern world (and make references to movies and tv's, etc). At the very least, he should have spoken in a more stilted and formal tone, like Goliath or even Arthur himself. That's what I meant. Other characters like Merlin, Duval or Morgana have had time to adjust, so it's not as big a deal with them.

Since no one's mentioned this yet:

GREG WEISMAN IS CHATTING IN THE S8 CHAT ROOM THIS FRIDAY EVENING 4 PM PST/ 7 PM EST. BE THERE!
Vash
Wednesday, November 5, 2003 12:35:56 AM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Wolves now has a picture added to it, done by Karen Blackwell.

Click my name to view the picture.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 11:50:36 PM
IP: 204.94.193.67

Something Awful's comedy goldmine is COMPLETELY wrong this week!
I like it! Quite disturbing!

Gside: <Pleasant memories?>
Of humans? Yes. But... ladybugs? No. The bodies only give me nightmares. I keep hearing them, calling for help, but there is little I can do...
I hear their screams while I sleep.
<Yeah, I probably should get started designing before I get permissions, but I still don't have much in the way of specifications>
Designing is a good idea. Who knows when (if) either of us will get access permission.
<Thank you, I know: I've heard rumors of slow response time>
I've gotten replies about 10-20% of the time.
<Too bad you've got cows instead of sheep, you could make a nice mint jelly to go with the lamb>
Na. All of the lambs had to be silenced.
<It is because of the Cheeto dust from your snacks?>
Nope. Chex Mix and pop.
<And we can go into cometition against the pork rind industry.>
AND we can say it is healthier! People think that chicken is healthier, so...
<And aren't you supposed to say sack?>
Ah, I am crude and when I hear sack I think of the male anatomical one.
<You just need to cook them right.>
Yeah, but the taste isn't really worth it.
<It's almost as bad as inviting Shiunji over>
"Damn it! We are going to be eating that!"
"But she looked so sexy!"
<Sometiems it is much fun living with the local mad scientist.>
Ah, I never had that. Never even knew if we had a local mad scientist... unless that WAS me... if that's so, then our neighborhood was seriously lacking.
<You are stalking me, aren't you?>
Yes, and I have the pictures to prove it too!
<But, but, but... it's so good mixed with A1 on a burger. And what else am I supposed to put on my hash?>
Don't like A1 either. And my parents made me sick of hash.
<One was on its back. That must have been surreal>
Definitely!
<Last I heard, Fire Storm had been somewhat guarding his last name for esthetic reasons>
Yeah. For the most part, I try not to use my last name. I try to remain on a first name basis ONLY with people. Security reasons? Perhaps. But I don't really know.

Revel: <The scary part is the more I see l33t the easier it is to read>
At first, the l33t in Megatokyo was hard to read. And now... I speak it. Ph34r!
<And no doubt for good reason. Do our heads explode and chest cave in upon knowledge of the name?>
Dunno. I DO know that people get a slight headache and a tummy ache when they hear the first syllable in it's native "tongue"

Why Conservatives Hate Star Trek!
1. Everyone bucks like funnies in that universe, DEFINATELY out of wedlock!
2. Not only that, but interracial/interspecies mating is quite common
3. Pornography is prevalent thanks to Holodecks. Think of the programs that Barkeley has been commented to have made!
4. The Federation, the mainstay of human existence, isn't even run by a HUMAN! An alien is the leader of the Federation.
5. ...
Ok, so I can't think of much right now. But bonnieway, Taleweaver has a point. It's all about perspective.

Bud-Clare: <You say that about the clowns too. Why should we believe you?>
Ok. I can understand why you would doubt that ladybugs bite, but how can you NOT think that clowns are evil? Just like ravers and goths, they put thick makeup on to hide themselves, scare children, and make obscene things with balloons!

TGS: Not really a spoiler, especially since Timedancer said so, but...
So this is how Mary REALLY decides to help out wolves world wide, eh?
I Merlin is going to die. Oh well. It doesn't seem like Mary minded marrying his clone, after all.

Jaden: 
It's always a good idea to diversify.

Ok, so you have me beat!

HELL YEAH!

Lain: <is this texas, or WHAT!!??>
Well, it looks like you are really starting to think of Texas as home.
Fire Storm
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 10:56:28 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

today, i went over to a friends house, and they loaned me their winchester defender 12 ga SHOTGUN! woohoo!
is this texas, or WHAT!!??
im just gonna lean it up against the wall, and wait for val to get home... it should be amusing to see his reaction...
mwa haha!

lain "boom chicka" iwakura
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 08:23:00 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Greetings all...

MOOMCAT - <perks at the breats comment> Sad that you'll lose Isis, but sounds like the rest of your kittens will keep you in good company (best big cat purrrrrs!). Glad to hear you had a good time with your friends as well. been maning to drop you a line by email...

As long as I'm here, I'll make a short fic announcement... Patrick, you might want to listen to this:

"As The Fur Flies, Part 1", my latest crossover is now posted to the fanfic archives on garg-fans.org... this should be a treat for everyone. Read and enjoy!

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr. - [ssobotka33616_AT_yahoo.com]
Tampa, FL, USA
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 06:48:00 PM
IP: 24.164.29.234

This time change is weird. I keep feeling tired since my body hasn't adjusted yet. I'm tired before midnight.

Fire Storm- I could try for 100% evil, but I really should save room for insanity. <Overtime> I know, that has happened to me more than once. Being on 24 hr guard duty and you get an extra hour added on. Ack!

DPH I don't know, I've begun to think the term "sanity" was made up by people with boring personalities so they could feel better. ;)

Gotta go to class.
Later.
Jaden - [jaden1444@aol.com]
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 03:35:42 PM
IP: 209.129.94.61

Hang in there, DPH. ;)
Ed
Cambridge, England
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 09:50:38 AM
IP: 131.111.8.101

hi,
wow,
19th unique in the name of procrastination,
OR
25th post in the name of procrastination
(i would have posted 2 days ago, but the list reset while i was counting, and i gave up)
Got to the intro to time dancer WOOO!!!
Sean
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 02:49:06 AM
IP: 207.6.149.113

I'd like to make a small correction:

Ed Reynolds wrote the story while Todd Jensen came up with the story idea.

It's real easy to get things confused. ;)
DPH
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 01:24:45 AM
IP: 204.94.193.60

Happy Birthday Spacebabie.

Revel> <<The scary part is the more I see l33t the easier it is to read>>: The more you see just about anything, the easier it is to read.
<<Do our heads explode and chest cave in upon knowledge of the name>>: Nah, just some gas. Unless it's in the Elder Tongue.
<<The man has a plan>>: Only in some things. I mean, I've been unemployed for almost half a year now.
<<hmm... oopse. How's that?>>: Very well, you've appeased me. For now.

Bud Clare> <<Not a real big secret>>: Last I heard, Fire Storm had been somewhat guarding his last name for esthetic reasons.
<>: There is none.

Na zodorv'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 12:47:03 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

TGS proudly presents a Pendragon Season 4 story . . .

Wolves

Story idea by Ed Reynolds

Written by Todd Jensen

Click my name, go to the link at the top of the cr that says "Current Episode", or visit http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/ce.html to read this week's story.

Oh yea, if there's some problems with the art pages in the next few days, let me know. I'm doing some slight revisions on the art section. Sorry, I'm not releasing new pictures but instead I'm doing some reorganization of files.
DPH - [<--click here to read this week's story]
AR, USA
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 12:39:47 AM
IP: 204.94.193.60

test
test
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 12:25:42 AM
IP: 64.56.246.97

lain> <<you put entirely too much effort into that..>>
He's exhausted. He's not thinking straight. ;)
________________________
Gside> <<But your security was lax and I now know your True Name.>>
Not a real big secret.

<<See, it's not me, it's you.>>
I fail to see the relevance.
________________________
Fire Storm> <<Oh fine. Take the safe route out of it!>>
Yes.

<<But the ones around here bite!>>
You say that about the clowns too. Why should we believe you?
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 12:22:26 AM
IP: 66.67.201.63

taleweaver>> you put entirely too much effort into that..
lain
Tuesday, November 4, 2003 12:12:12 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Talpa> Not for nothing, but what you are discussing is an interpretation. Interpretations are fine and dandy and you are certainly entitled to yours, but to quote the muses what does this have to do with the price of olives in Athens? I could argue on the homosexual issue all of television has been less than progressive. Star Trek isn't a sole example of such thinking.

Arguing your opinions is easy, but what is it that you want to prove? Does Star Trek's politcal orientation change your enjoyment of the show?
Taleweaver
Monday, November 3, 2003 11:59:55 PM
IP: 24.205.177.107

Why Conservatives Love Star Trek!

1) Every Trek series has taken place within the structure of a military service. No matter how many times its denied, Starfleet is a military organization by any conceivable definition.

Remember in DS9s "Rules of Engagement", O'Brien said he had fought in more than TWO HUNDRED battles.

And military organizations are noted for their conservatism.

2) Earth is dominant in the Federation, and based on the Starfleet members we've seen, North Americans and Europeans are overwhelmingly dominant in Starfleet.

Considering the ethnic breakdown we've seen in Trek series, Most of Asia and Africa must've been nuked out of existence during the Third World War.

3) The "no money", "no religion" thing only applies to modern Trek which was produced after Gene Roddenberry had lost his mind and turned into a sex obsessed alcoholic.

The Original Series had ample references to both religion on Earth and money.

4) There are basically no homosexuals in the Trek universe. At least among humans. We've seen more openly homosexual people in one season of most American sitcoms than we've seen in 30 years of Star Trek.

5) Star Trek has always been heavily "Americanized" in style. Such as the American faith in science and technology.

6) Star Trek does relatively little promotion of liberal ideas compared to most American dramas such as "The West Wing", "ER","The Practice", and many others.
Talpa
Monday, November 3, 2003 11:05:06 PM
IP: 66.216.21.1

I might as well have a word or two here about "Old English".

The popular misuse of "Old English" is to refer to "archaic English" of the sort that we find in Shakespeare's plays and the King James Version of the Bible (and even in the more high-flown dialogue in "The Lord of the Rings"). In fact, the English of Shakespeare and the King James Bible is an early form of modern English. Old English was the language that they spoke in England prior to the Norman Conquest, of the sort found in "Beowulf". It was a straightforward Anglo-Saxon language without the influence from French (and Latin) that the Normans would bring with them after they took over the island in 1066, and which would eventually lead to Middle English (the language of Chaucer).

(And Arthur and his knights would certainly not be speaking Old English, since the Saxons were their enemies. They'd be speaking Latin or an early form of Welsh, although "Gargoyles" glossed over that - just as it glossed over the fact that Goliath and his clan would have spoken an early form of Gaelic in 10th century Scotland rather than a recognizable form of English.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 3, 2003 10:13:56 PM
IP: 63.186.0.165

***NO MERCY SPOILERS***

Thanks for posting your comments, Vash. As usual, very interesting comments.

1. I’m the first to admit that I think strong dramatic scenes are generally more important than a water-tight plot. That said, we’re not breaking or even bending any of our rules here. None of our mediaeval characters use old English. None of the mediaeval characters in the show used old English. Why would you expect us to start now?

2. Our Mordred has always been scathingly snide but I think his humour strikes a different note from Puck’s. (Besides, as written by Todd, I think Mordred is funnier).

2.5. I’m sorry you didn’t see Arthur as depressed early enough in the episode. I thought the ending to “Flight” and his bleak tone at the start of the episode made it pretty clear. I also had several hints at Arthur and Mary’s changing condition in “Flight”. I forget if it made the episode, but the notion was that the ‘Mordred’ element grew stronger as he became depressed. That’s why “No Mercy” happened when it did – after “Flight from the Enchanter”.

3. Todd’s addressed the Morgause business.

4. Firestorm mentioned the anti-climactic nature of the episode too. I think it’s a fair cop, and it’s one that’s largely down to my outline. We spent a bit of time in edits trying to develop the turnaround scene and I think the speech Todd wrote for Arthur in the end is excellent. But guilty as charged here.

But although I think I should have structured the story in a way that provided more of a climax, in the context of how it was structured I don’t think there’s any way we could have Arthur coming back with anything more vigorous than ‘we shall see’. Everything Mordred shows him in the past is correct. We don’t know that the scenes of the present wouldn’t have been correct if he hadn’t acted in a different manner because of the dream. And maybe Arthur *is* heading for another “wicked day of destiny, even worse than the first one was”. I think the trick of a good psychological villain like this isn’t someone who lies to the protagonist, but someone who tells him the truth. That’s what makes Hannibal Lector scary even when he's locked safely in prison. Arthur can’t argue against facts he knows to be true. And he’s not the type to defend the indefensible.

5. We wanted to tie this story to “Fata Morgana” so bringing back Mordred so soon seemed credible. I don’t see why Morgana, who enchanted the crystal, should be surprised at the magic passing into Arthur. It’s even consistent with “The Curse of Rivencroft”. And the magic was designed for whoever entered it. Morgana planned Arthur to enter it. Mary did too. I feel like if we hadn't had Mary affected then -- quite apart from losing the interesting Morgana/Sybil development -- people would be complaining that we were copping out of showing consequences for Mary.

I’m sorry to hear your concerns with the episodes though. I hope you enjoy the rest this season. If last week was our Hallowe’en episode, this is our Bonfire Night episode...

***END SPOILERS***
Ed
Cambridge, England
Monday, November 3, 2003 08:23:06 PM
IP: 131.111.8.101

* NO MERCY COMMENTS *

VASHKODA - One or two answers to your questions:

1. The portrayal of Morgause as a villainess is a largely modern notion - mainly T. H. White's idea (he had this really horrible mother and modelled Morgause upon her in "The Once and Future King" as his way of getting revenge on her for the impact that she'd had on him in his childhood). Morgause wasn't a villainess in Malory and didn't know that Arthur was her brother. I also wanted - though she doesn't get enough airtime to make it clear - to do her as a foil to Morgana; she's also a daughter of Gorlois and Igraine, but she *doesn't* seek revenge upon the Pendragons.

2. Mary's physical transformation into Corbie is partly due to the fact that her being a werewolf makes her more open to such an alteration (physical appearance changing) and partly because she doesn't have the internal demon issues that Arthur does. (And also so that we could focus on Arthur's plight while still having Mary affected through having been in the microcosm).

Nearly all the other points that you brought up come from the outline that Ed Reynolds wrote, which he can explain a lot better than I can.

* COMMENTS END *
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 3, 2003 07:18:58 PM
IP: 63.186.1.212

TGS: NM> I'm a little tired--been peeling apart mouse legs all day--so forgive me and my pun if I just go straight to the 'meat and bones' of my feelings toward the fic. There were a lot of decent elements to this story ('this is your life', magical threats, good succumbing to evil, etc.), but I'm not sure they fit together all that well here. The 'Mordred flashback' dominated the fic, with only short scenes featuring the rest of the cast. Even their very purpose in coming to Oak Island--searching the Money Pit--was all but forgotten (in fact, we got very little historical info about the pit, and despite Arthur deciding to spend a few extra days there just to look for the Grail, they don't get anywhere, and give up without even trying. It would be pretty ironic if the Grail actually *was* down there). I also had several problems with Mordred. 1) Assuming that he is somewhat created from Arthur's subconscious memories, shouldn't he be speaking in an Old English dialect? What's he doing using modern day slang/references and summoning television sets? Shouldn't that be a dead giveaway to Arthur that this Mordred isn't real? On top of the fact that he's, well, *dead*? 2) I guess Mordred is supposed to be funny, but he reminded me too much of Puck when the latter clowned around during his 'This is Your Life' display for Oberon and Titania. Especially when Mordred rang his bell for the crows to come (and why would he be able to interact with the visions and not Arthur?). I suppose having Mordred act like a fool wouldn't have been so bad, if Arthur wasn't himself so damn passive and sulky. Sure, he's depressed, but he seems to be closer to having a mental breakdown if he can so easily accept that Mordred is real and trust whatever he says to him. Arthur should be more on his guard around Mordred--after all, this is the guy who 'killed' him. His unusual depression/mental breakdown was at least brought to our attention later in the fic when the cast remarked about it, but before then, I had to go on the assumption that he was just being poorly written. One person who still seemed OOC with no explanation was Merlin. I don't know why he was being so bossy to Arthur on the plane, and then rudely falls alseep himself when Arthur tries talking to him. 3) I don't know how much of it was established in earlier seasons which I may simply not have noticed before, but I do not like this version of the backstory between Arthur and Morgause. I suppose having them both be innocent of the affair makes it easier to tread around the whole 'incest' issue. However, I'm used to reading versions of the legend where Morgause or Morgana *knowingly* have a child with Arthur in order to use it to gain power over him. I couldn't believe Arthur and Morgause had never met before, either. It was strange reading that Lot was behind all of the schemes and not Morgause (and Arthur should have been suspicious of Morgause's request. She didn't seem that heartbroken over her husband being "slain by barbarians", and anyways, shouldn't Arthur have scouts/messengers that would have brought him news of the battle a lot faster than a woman riding with small children?) 4) Mordred's purpose in showing Arthur the visions at first seemed like just a way to torture him. The stakes are raised when we learn he's trying to take over Arthur's soul. But it didn't seem like it took that much for Arthur to defeat him. Arthur tells him 'no' once, Mordred looks afraid, and then Arthur says 'we shall see', and voila!--Arthur boldly states that Mordred is gone forever. How did Arthur know that he wouldn't return? Arthur hadn't even realized at the time that it was a spell, or what the nature of the spell was. The resolution with Sybil also seemed quick and manufactured (why would a wisp lead Griff to her? Plus it seemed awfully easy to tie her up). I was also surprised she so readily agreed to help them if the only threat they made was to leave her tied (she could have just walked over to the Money Pit and gotten the gaurd to untie her). I was also surprised she so openly discussed having Mary killed when Morgana could have found out about it. Why bother revealing that, especially when she was tied up and in no position to do anything? Villains should only boast when they have the upper hand. =p Anyways, the whole 'this effect is due to leftover magic from that spell two episodes ago' plot was pushing credibility a little, I thought. I was surprised the cast so readily jumped to it as an explanation. When one of them says, "Perhaps, when Merlin destroyed the globe that powered it, he unwittingly caused that aspect of it to flow directly into Arthur, affecting his dreams to display his fears. I was half-wondering then if something like that could happen", I'm thinking, "oh yeah, of course! That's what *always* happens when you break open a mystical ball." -_- There was also no good explanation for why it affected Mary differently--if the microcosm had originally been intended just for Arthur, it obviously made no difference before when Mary walked into it; similarly, freeing her from it should also have had the same effect. But whatever, now I'm just being a nuissance. I'll end here saying that this story was at least entertaining, though not the best I've seen from either Todd or Ed. Hopefully I'll be more impressed by the next one.
Vashkoda
Monday, November 3, 2003 06:33:52 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Lain and gunjack>

Of course, both of you could always come up to Denton and give Dave and I, since we are now roomates, a demonstration. Then we could roleplay, and gunjack could make another Goblin stick with the knives >;)
Gabriel
Monday, November 3, 2003 11:42:18 AM
IP: 129.120.86.98

All right, Ya'll knew I would do this when it came around, but I'll keep it to a minimum here.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SPACEBABIE!
*smoooooch*

Fire Storm- <<H3Y! I R d4 l337 /\/\4$73R>> The scary part is the more I see l33t the easier it is to read. <<You only know my HUMAN name... my True Name is still hidden>> And no doubt for good reason. Do our heads explode and chest cave in upon knowledge of the name?

Gside- <<Yes, but I've also spent my time preparing so I can be lazy later>> The man has a plan. <> hmm... oopse. How's that?

Bud-Clare- <<Only if they like that sort of thing. (I'm not taking responsibility for that comment. I'm just not.>> But by commenting we know you were thinking the same thing we are thinking or soemthign very similar. ;)

Ghost of Rev Attila- <<Now to get my shower cam ready>> Now that's a bad kitty. :P

Lain- <> awww, *hugs* <<thats cos youre a stick. a really skinny stick>> Don't hold back your true feelings, eh? ;)

Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, tx
Monday, November 3, 2003 11:30:38 AM
IP: 129.120.245.88

Blah, eleven, thats what I get for sleeping through my alarm. ;) Well, that and late for class.
Dezi
Monday, November 3, 2003 09:11:22 AM
IP: 68.58.158.101

Tenth!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL
Monday, November 3, 2003 05:16:14 AM
IP: 24.164.29.234

Ninth.

(Damned homework.)
Bud-Clare
Monday, November 3, 2003 04:32:47 AM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Eight, right before bed.
Josh
Monday, November 3, 2003 03:12:19 AM
IP: 64.170.154.37

7777777!!!!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Monday, November 3, 2003 01:59:47 AM
IP: 216.234.99.176

6th.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, November 3, 2003 01:54:24 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Fifth this time -- so much for my 4th before -- in the name of 70% laziness....
silvadel
Monday, November 3, 2003 01:49:41 AM
IP: 24.225.133.97

4
lain
Monday, November 3, 2003 01:33:45 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

3rd
Revel
Monday, November 3, 2003 01:30:29 AM
IP: 129.120.245.88

#1 in the name of giving thanks to Lain for wiping the CR.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, November 3, 2003 01:29:06 AM
IP: 204.94.193.34

Kick booty! 1st!
Andrea
Monday, November 3, 2003 01:29:00 AM
IP: 130.111.154.169