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Todd: <<We'll just have to see how our recruitment drive goes.>> Are you throwing one now? If so, I can make an announcement at GNC and put up your advertisement for the finale as well.
Vash
Sunday, November 23, 2003 09:36:07 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Fionn O' Tir Bo Thuinn - [MWhaleK@aol.com]
Middletown, CT, USA
**********
TGS: Preservation: Even if Merlin tumbled a wench or three well in his teens an twenty's, which is unlikely as Merlin is a Druid and acording to tradition it take 21 years of study to become a full druid and his teacher would have tried to instill some very strong morals in him, Emrys should qualify as a virgin by a Unicorns standerds because not only hasn't Merlin 'gotten any' for over a thousand years but by becomeing Emrys he reset him self there by removeing/eraseing what ever it is that Unicorns detect in non-virginal males.
Fionn O' Tir Bo Thuinn - [MWhaleK@aol.com]
Middletown, CT, USA
Sunday, November 23, 2003 07:59:50 PM
IP: 205.188.209.40

GRAYMONK - No kidding. You're actually doing "Paradise Lost" character designs?

Yep, Nimue was Merlin's first love; don't ask me why it took him that long. Maybe, as you suggest, Blaise encouraged Merlin towards chastity.

I've mixed feelings about your wanting to help out for Season Five of "Pendragon". On the one hand, you'd be welcome company (we could use another person taking part in Breakdowns besides myself and Ed, at the least), based on your comments here. On the other hand, you're one of the room's best reviews writers, and I'd miss your reviews (especially their sorting things out into "Good", "Bad", and "Miscellaneous", and the "such-and-such a number out of ten [insert noun here]" system). We'll just have to see how our recruitment drive goes.

"Pendragon" is the series where we're most tempted to seek recruits outside of Gargoyles fandom (since it's the only part of TGS which contains a strong basis in a mythos predating "Gargoyles"), but I decided against recruiting in Arthurian mailing lists and other such organizations after noticing a lot of the arguments that went on there; an Arthurian newsgroup that I used to go to tended to regularly degenerate into flame wars about religion, which made it a particularly inadvisable recruiting area for this season when we were doing the Holy Grail.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, November 23, 2003 07:46:42 PM
IP: 63.186.0.2

Sorry for the double post, I forgot to mention that I linked my name to the Dead Zone writer's guide.
Graymonk
Sunday, November 23, 2003 07:24:23 PM
IP: 198.164.140.254

********WARNING! SPOILERS FOR "PRESERVATION"!********

THE GOOD: -Seeing the Sanctuary again. I've often wondered wether or not they survived to the present day and it was nice to have that confirmed. The preserve itself is an inventive expansion on the original concept. I especially liked the fact that racism is still present, even among mythical creatures. It keeps the place from developing too much of a utopia feel.

-Griff. I made a shocking discovery while reading this, I quite enjoy Griff in his detective mode! Griff has never been a favorite of mine, I don't hate him but I'm not really that interested in him. But I find myself feeling quite engaged with the character when he's investigating a riddle. Of course, I still prefer Arthur as the brains of the operation, but Griff P.I. is always welcome to pop up again.

-The nod to Greg's oft-mentioned, but never seen, unpublished Clodstone story.

-Nyctimus. I felt bad for the poor guy. Yes he tried to frame Mary, and I'm not absolving(SP?) him of his guilt, but the fellow did seem to be caught in a bit of a rock and a hard place. He could betray an innocent person, who he apparently had a bit of a crush on, or be driven out of his home. In the end both happens to him. I'm really intruigued by this character, indeed by the whole concept of organised Werewolf packs. Why was he in the sanctuary, couldn't his pack protect him? What would his pack think of Mary? What would they think of the Fenris wolf? Does Fenris have a coonection to them as he does to Mary?

-The strange creatures in the preserve. They really gave the story an added air of the exotic. The idea that poachers use virgin girls as bait was a neat twist on an old legend.

THE BAD: - People have already mentioned the inconsitency regarding the Togrul having a werewolf apprentice yet wanting to drive Mary out for being one. I won't belabour the point

-<<"There is only one thing," said Arthur sadly, as he watched Mary bow her head in silent grief over the dying boy. "We must take him back home and be with him in his final days. That is all that we can do now.">> - Um, if they have enough time to take Merlin back to London couldn't they go to Spain instead? They could hang out in Quetzcolati(or however you spell the big winged sanke guy's name)'s valley long enough to restore Merlin to a reasonable level of health and then transfer him to Avalon, giving them decades to turn up new clues about the Grail.

THE WRAP UP: A decent story that puts several new elements in play that can be revisited later, 6 death-dealing shambling musk oxes out of 10.

******LOOKOUT! SPOILERS FOR "PRESERVATIION"*******

Wierd synchronicity, I write a PENDRAGON review mere hours after I watch a "Tekwar" movie involving a gang of cyber punks who model themselves on King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.

Hardwing - Welcome to the room!

Ed - <<What ideas or suggestions do you have for increasing involvement or otherwise finding ways to help develop TGS?>> I agree with the idea that increasing promotion outside of the TGS CR would help. If you're worried about getting people from outside the fandom maybe you should limit yourselves to just Gargoyles fan forums. I suggest announcements at S8 and maybe Toonzone's new Disney Bulliten board, and I think Mooncat runs a Graoyles BBS of her own (don't you?, or do I have you mixed up with someone else?). Weekly announcements that a new story has been posted at these places, and maybe at Gargoyles News Central might help too.

<<Are there any people here who would quite like to participate in helping the project but feel prohibited by factors (and if so, what factors are they)?>> I thought about applying for the Dark Ages staff but I'm horrible at self-starting or meeting deadlines and aside from a few creative essays I don't do much creative writing. I'm taking a wiritng course now though, and when I'm done I hope to submit to TGS for PENDRAGON season 5 (I figure after all these long winded reviews I might as well put my money where my mouth is :))

As for TGS in general, you might want to consider creating a writer's guide for each season. Michael Piller, executive producer on "The Dead Zone" seems to put out a new version of the series writing guide every season, describing the show's philosophy, its tone, the rules the universe opperates under, who the main characters are, their role in the series and the needs/personality traits that drive them, who the recurring cast is and a similar description of their primary personality traits, an analysis of season one that included some of his gaols for the upcoming season. A similar document might help the TGS cycles. I know I enjoyed PENDRAGON much more once you and Todd finally decided on who the main cast was.

BTW thanks for the behind the scenes look at the TGS writing process.

Todd - <<The storm is coming.

The hour has arrived.

Everything that you thought you knew about "Pendragon" is about to change.

"Something is coming... something powerful."

Don't miss "Carbonek", a three-part TGS: Pendragon special event, beginning on November 25 on a computer near you.>> And suddenly it feels like 1998 and Dumalox is writing little promos for each new episode. Looks like my guess about Arthur becoming the new fisher king may be right on the money. Thanks for the teaser, Todd, have you posted it in any of the other Fan Forums?

I'm a little surprised at Merlin's virginity, the guy was around for several decades before running into Nimue. Are you saying he never dated anyone when he went through adolesence the first time? (Although, come to think of it, being raised by a priest like Blaise probably wasn't conducive to teenaged Merlin being sexually active.)

*Garymonk heads home to get to work on his "Paradise Lost" character designs* Ciao!
Graymonk
Sunday, November 23, 2003 07:21:37 PM
IP: 198.164.140.254

ed>> <<we do have edits going on until before the release, it’s hoped that the majority of this stuff is done long before>> *hoped* being the operative term here...
*sheepish cough*
better luck next time ;)
lain
Sunday, November 23, 2003 07:11:58 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Sorry for the double post, but:

Something else that I forgot to mention was, I wonder what H. P. Lovecraft would say if he knew about some of these interpretations of Cthulhu out there (such as the plush versions of him). A pity that we'll never know. (Somebody's even come out with a bizarre crossover between Cthulhu and Pokemon - Pikathulhu, I believe that it's called.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, November 23, 2003 06:45:08 PM
IP: 63.186.0.2

Of course, it ultimately wouldn't matter to the unicorns whether Merlin's slept with anybody or not; as I recall, unicorns only accept female virgins anyway. At least, that's what the legends say.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, November 23, 2003 06:06:15 PM
IP: 63.186.0.2

Firestorm: As long as it takes, really. The release date decision comes after the stories are done.

And as a clarification of Gside’s reply, I’d say that technically, although we do have edits going on until before the release, it’s hoped that the majority of this stuff is done long before. I think the reason for late edits this season were mainly to get the ‘previously’ sections added using the most up-to-date drafts, and on the instances where we decided to do rewrites while the season was in progress (which over time generally necessitate further rewrites to keep continuity sweet, so the last third of the season was probably busier before deadline as a result). The *ideal* is still to be ready in advance, and I think we had all but three ‘Pendragon’ stories done and dusted in July, even if we then went back and decided we weren’t happy with them after all.

Gside: Sorry, I’m still not clear about the automation thing, I suspect you’ll have to discuss this with someone with a better idea about it. The outline is batted back and forth between the outliner(s) and breakdown staff until ready. Then the draft is batted back and forth between the writer(s) and edits staff until ready. Then it’s released. That’s all there really is to it.
Ed
Cambridge, England
Sunday, November 23, 2003 04:24:36 PM
IP: 131.111.8.103

Todd Jensen: <<There are several reasons for his not having lost his virginity yet, but I believe that one of the biggies was Madoc. Merlin's been living in fear for nearly all his life that, if he did have children, Madoc would seek to capture and corrupt them, trying to do with his grandchildren what he could not do with his son, and so deliberately went celibate to prevent that from happening. He can more freely fall in love now that Madoc's gone, of course, though (in my own thought, at least) don't expect him to do anything serious with Mary until they've both grown up and gotten married.>>

So Merlin is the worlds oldest virgin!;) It's no wonder why Leo is being so crude. It sounds like he can't believe anyone could wait as long as Merlin has. Forgive me if I am being equally crude.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Sunday, November 23, 2003 01:36:06 PM
IP: 216.234.99.246

The Good News, I had my semester project up at the gallery with the rest of the studio watercolor students, even though *technically* I'm not in the studio class. I'm classified as an independent study,b ut I'll explain all that if things go well. Anyhow, for those still reading, I got almost all the staff to go see the work while it was at the gallery because the gallery was a lot nicer place to have it displayed. So now I'm waiting for their answer so that I can move on to my last set of classes next semester.

Todd- So what you're saying is Merlin is a poster child for all those out there who think they have to wait so long, try going a few hundred years without intimacy.

GregX- What are you going to do if they don't put it on the extended edition either? >:)

Mooncat- I'm not sure which one is more cute, the MacHall Cthulhu or the plushy one I gave Spacie that she named Cuchy.

FireStorm- <> *blinks* You sure you're not a texas driver? sounds like the way people drive around here... me being one of them. "Oopse, I was suppose to turn back there, hold on." Cut across three lanes of traffic, through a parking lot, over the curb and back to where I wanted to turn. <<Hey, at least your name isn't related with sex change operations!>> This is true, I like my name. <> You may grow tentecles now, you know.

Spacie- *smmmoooch* You'll be all right. I could go for some Mountain Dew. Though I had this odd dream last night that there was a bar in my apartment complex... even though I live in a dorm.

Bud-Clare- the higherst I've ever gotten was a 3.5 I usally am a constant 3.0 or 3.3

Lain- << as long as i could get one for bush and his cronies too.>> That had one, it was on Comedy Central called "That's my Bush"

Gside-<> And we all know what Helen said to Ian, don't we? ;)

that's all for now
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, but on;y for a few more days, tx
Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:55:46 PM
IP: 129.120.174.168

Wow who would have known that Merlin and the Unabomber would actually have something in common besides their whole going off to live in the forest routine.
Question
Sunday, November 23, 2003 10:43:50 AM
IP: 144.92.164.204

Well, IMO, Merlin's still a virgin. Neither of his previous romances (with Nimue and Corbie) ever reached the point where they were consummated, and it's clear enough from how the unicorn responded to Mary that his relationship with her has been perfectly G-rated.

There are several reasons for his not having lost his virginity yet, but I believe that one of the biggies was Madoc. Merlin's been living in fear for nearly all his life that, if he did have children, Madoc would seek to capture and corrupt them, trying to do with his grandchildren what he could not do with his son, and so deliberately went celibate to prevent that from happening. He can more freely fall in love now that Madoc's gone, of course, though (in my own thought, at least) don't expect him to do anything serious with Mary until they've both grown up and gotten married.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, November 23, 2003 06:28:42 AM
IP: 63.186.1.46

vinnie>> <<OK I have got ask what Merlin's use of his magic wand has to do with his not being able to use an Alicorn. You'll have to forgive my ignorance here>> dont worry, leo is being crude. :P
he means that, according to lore, unicorns only allow themselves to be touched by pure virgins and since merlin has been around awhile and most likely been subject to temptation... well... it might not work so well.

lain
Sunday, November 23, 2003 04:18:54 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Leo:<<<<<<So it stand to reason that one touch of a Alicorn should if not fully cure Merlin...>>You're assuming that the unicorn wouldeven let Merlin touch it. Considring how long Merlin's been around, I think there's a pretty good chance that he um...*cough* used his "magic wand"... when the opportunities arose. ;D>>>>
OK I have got ask what Merlin's use of his magic wand has to do with his not being able to use an Alicorn. You'll have to forgive my ignorance here.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Sunday, November 23, 2003 04:01:38 AM
IP: 216.234.99.223

GSIDE> Yes, "Two Towers" extended edition kicks a lot of ass. I can't wait for the "Return of the King" Extended Edition, especially since that's where all of Saruman's scenes went.
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, November 23, 2003 01:21:46 AM
IP: 216.179.3.119

Gside: <Never heard of that>
No relation to me, but still...
Check my link. You know my last name, so...
First sex change ever. Nice, eh?
Fire Storm
Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:59:33 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

And I must say, I do like the extended Two Towers DVD. Some good scenes added, and some fun stuff learnt from the documentaries. As well as guest apppearances by Vampire Hunter D, Legend's Prince of Darkness, and Vamirella on the fifth disc.

Fire Storm> <<the $450 in fees for the past three or four days>>: That's a lot of fees in not many days.
<<at least your name isn't related with sex change operations>>: Never heard of that.
<<I'm considering getting a SECOND job to pay for bills and the wedding>>: : Wehn I said waht you have now, I meant savings/investments, not income.
<<Possibly, but I highly doubt I would want to come back>>: But still, even if it's a last desperate hold out, it's still a good thing to have a place to go.
<>: I somewhat understood that, but you're still at the top of your ladder. As you are now, you can't get any higher. You're just trying to finda another, better ladder.
<<Don't think I would do that to Wyvern>>: Nor did I, but you don't pimp your own domain out much, so I wan't thinking of that.
<<have you read the stories on Something Awful?>>: Not really, but I can guess.
<<Pokemon are well hung!>>: Of course they are. It's porn, and when was the last time you saw someone who wasn't well hung in porn?
<<STUNT breadmaking?>>: Breaking the outside of an intentionally burnt croissant to get to the perfect croissant inside. Making bread in a rice cooker. Making bread that lasts in the open for well over a month (the failures being the source of the moldy bread). And the list will go on. And would you believe I read H doujins of this series before I read the real thing?
<<MacHall>>: I know you want to see Helen in the digimon outfit, don't you?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:54:09 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Fionn O' Tir Bo Thuinn:<<So it stand to reason that one touch of a Alicorn should if not fully cure Merlin...>>You're assuming that the unicorn wouldeven let Merlin touch it. Considring how long Merlin's been around, I think there's a pretty good chance that he um...*cough* used his "magic wand"... when the opportunities arose. ;D
Leo
Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:08:38 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

**********
TGS: Preservation: Really felt it nessisary to bring this up. Has it occured to any one that Arthur, Griff and Mary have likely found a cure for Merlin? After all the main reason Unicorns are so rare is because according to all lore, legeind and tradition a Alicorn (the horn of a Unicorn) is a total and instantaneous cure for any and all poisons and can also be used to detect poisons. So it stand to reason that one touch of a Alicorn should if not fully cure Merlin then at the absolute and very least affect a partial recovery adding another month or so to his life.
Fionn O' Tir Bo Thuinn - [MWhaleK@aol.com]
Middletown, CT, USA
Saturday, November 22, 2003 10:38:26 PM
IP: 152.163.252.196

Just bouncing in for a moment. Massively busy with stuff right now. But had to say, KAWAIIIIII!!!! That is the cutest Cthulu I've ever seen *^_^* ... It's like everywhere I look these days there is some kind of Cthulu reference. From Justice League to He-man, I guess Cthulu Chic has really come into it's own. Mmm... cookies.

Mooncat
>^,,^<
Saturday, November 22, 2003 08:56:07 PM
IP: 68.102.0.23

YES! He DOES look like this!
I don't have a camera with me, otherwise the pic would be on the net now. I just got to save him until after work... but it will be hard.
He looks delicious!
Fire Storm yet again - [<--- The Youngest Elder God]
Saturday, November 22, 2003 08:02:30 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Todd: <Was it deliberately made that way (something that I find hard to believe, admittedly, unless there are Lovecraft fans in the cookie business now) or did it just wind up looking that way due to how it was broken?>
Well, it looks like a side view of MacHall's chibi Cthulhu.
Maybe I just have an over active imagination...
Na. It's the ancient one.
Fire Storm
Saturday, November 22, 2003 07:59:47 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

VASHKODA - It was probably all the easier for me to mislead the audience regarding Vorones (although nobody's brought this up yet), since we had a precedent in "Gargoyles": a community lives with a "mythical species" that it is (with one exception) not very fond of, the one member of the community who does accept that "mythical species" is angry and disgusted with his fellow community members' cruel treatment of this species, and is himself ostracized for being fond of said species. And this member *did* wind up betraying the community in revenge. Although I wasn't originally thinking of it when I was writing the story, that precedent could make it all the easier to mislead the audience with Vorones.

Mary wasn't a wolf at the time when they came to the Sanctuary (the mere fact that Griff was still awake made that clear). I think that Rani's awareness of Griff's presence was mildly inspired by the scene in "Walkabout" where the shaman is similarly aware of the presence of Goliath, Angela, and Bronx hiding in the shadows when Dingo and Elisa approach him.

FIRE STORM - A Cthulhu-shaped animal cracker? Was it deliberately made that way (something that I find hard to believe, admittedly, unless there are Lovecraft fans in the cookie business now) or did it just wind up looking that way due to how it was broken?

Somehow, all this talk about surnames and "Angel" (though not connected) reminds me of my response to an early episode of Angel (back when Doyle was still on the team) where Angel was calling somebody on the phone and pretending to be from "Jensen International". Cordelia promptly made it clear that she didn't believe that any company with a name like Jensen could possibly be international; my own response to that was "On behalf of everyone with my surname, hey!"
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, November 22, 2003 07:03:42 PM
IP: 63.186.0.252

SO... I found out that my account is MASSIVELY overdrawn, mostly due to the $450 in fees for the past three or four days (they said most can be eliminated), finances suck...
But I feel better. I was late for work because of the train, but that will be excused.
I didn't wait for the train. I went around it.
NORMALLY, it takes me 15 minutes to go around the train. I did it in 6, and the only reason it didn't take 4 was because I had to backtrack due to stopped traffic. I did a quarter mile down the wrong side of the street, dodging cars that were turning around...
I have NEVER felt so ALIVE!

Leo: <::wonders why people are associating his mother with mimes and why they think she's single:: :p>
Hey, at least your name isn't related with sex change operations!

Gside: <Depends. Can you pull yourself through a degree program with what you have now>
Money? Yes. Time and schedule? Possibly, but unlikely and highly stressful.
<or with a different (probably lesser) source of income?>
HELL NO. Hell, I'm considering getting a SECOND job to pay for bills and the wedding
<If you leave now, can you come back later if things don't work out?>
Possibly, but I highly doubt I would want to come back. I hate my bosses boss.
<But still, being at the top of your promotional ladder and still unsatisfied with your job and pay is a good indication to try and find your way out>
Oh no, don't get me wrong: I am at the bottom of the ladder. There is just no possibility for advancement. The boss that controls the department directly above me doesn't like me, and the other IS/IT departments need degrees to go into (even though I know a HELLUVA lot more then them)
<Which site? The secure area?>
Don't think I would do that to Wyvern. I have a gig or so of space and a gig per month of bandwidth, so I'd put it on Mysticstorm for you.
<And a voracious one at that, to have both the professor and a pokemon>
Well, have you read the stories on Something Awful? Pokemon are well hung!
<But it's got afros. And a guy with a random koala mask. And stun breadmaking.>
STUNT breadmaking? Ok, that I have to see!
<Excellent. But are you sure they haven't changed their policy?>
Positive.
<Pretty much. Edits usually continue through the week before it's due.>
Oh, ok.

I just ate an animal cracker that looks like Cthulhu.
Fire Storm
Saturday, November 22, 2003 04:50:03 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

**********
TGS: Preservation> I really like how Todd and Ed have managed to give many of the titles double meanings in their fics (just like the original show). Another thing I like in this fic is that the decoy to the audience (Vorones) was properly suspicious, and that you really didn't suspect the real culprits. In fact, the boy and his warden might have looked a bit -too- clean (it's otherwise fun to spot the small giveaway clues). The boy should have appeared at least somewhat nervous; not hateful and angry (especially since those emotions were forced, and something reflecting that fact should have come through). The prejudice against the catolbepas was properly ironic, considering the wardens' occupation (though I was surprised that their jibes went unrebuked by Li--or does she have something against them as well? I think Veronas should have thought to educate them all about his beasts long before Griff brought up the suggestion).

I realize that those mythical animals were not made up by the staff, but most were still absurd enough that it felt like I was reading a Xanth novel. ;) I do have trouble believing that a moss on a cieling *high* above the meadow (high enough that rocs would be able to stretch their wings and fly) would cast enough light for vegetation to grow. Since fae helped create the Preserve, I don't see why a magical explanation for the light wasn't chosen (a big ball of fire or something that could have given off heat as well as light).

Misc> I was surprised that the woman at Sanctuary knew that Griff was waiting outside, but didn't know who Arthur was (so she's obviously not a mystic of some kind). Then it struck me that--this being Asia--they wouldn't know anything about the legends of King Arthur or the Grail (I suppose that's why that whole bit about the yeti asking Griff for his story was included--so it could give the villagers background on Arthur as well, since one of their arguments against him was that he was a legendary king who fought mythical beasts). I was surprised Arthur didn't think it was risky bringing Mary up to the house, though (most people would be scared at seeing a wolf, even if the owner insisted it's tame--which Arthur didn't even try to do). It's too bad the cup only works on animals (otherwise making a werewolf drink from it would solve the wardens' fear). Although we don't find out about that little caveat until the end, in prison, Mary seems already convinced that their quest has failed (after her epiphany in the last fic, has she become a permanent pessimist?). I think Verones should have realized how guilty he looked when Griff came upon him (I was also surprised Griff didn't leap onto him the moment he saw the cup, rather than simply reveal himself and wait to see how the man might react). It shows that Griff has learned patience and to think before he acts, even though doing so is risky (it would have been safer to just tackle Verones and assess his innocence later). I also like the comment on how Griff is good with riddles, making a connection with the rookery poem he remembered back in "Pendragon".

Overall, I enjoyed this fic--lots of fun and interesting bits in it, even if some points required suspending my disbelief.
**************
Vash
Saturday, November 22, 2003 04:41:17 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

the back of my neck and my upper back re in slight pain.

Firsky is coming home today!

Angel Spoilers for TODD
***********************************
It's about the whole Shanshu prophecy.
While Wesley was out of town (I believe they filmed that ep around the time of Alexis's wedding.) They had another guy translate the prhophecy. He told them it was a cup in a chalice in a opera house buried because of an earthquake.
Spike being a heroic vampire with a soul wanted to sip from the chalice also.

He and Angel duke it out, but in th end the chalice was a phony and filled with Mountain Dew.
***************************Spoilers End
Spacebabie
Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:23:55 PM
IP: 4.72.69.105

The storm is coming.

The hour has arrived.

Everything that you thought you knew about "Pendragon" is about to change.

"Something is coming... something powerful."

Don't miss "Carbonek", a three-part TGS: Pendragon special event, beginning on November 25 on a computer near you.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, November 22, 2003 07:30:51 AM
IP: 63.186.0.219

Bud Clare> <>: Take what you can get. Good attitude, I'd say.

Ed> <>: If they want the process automated, then there should be enough of a process to automate, unless it's just going to boil down to automatic releasing.

Fire Storm> <<is it worth it to stay here if I am in a position where I cannot get a higher education, won't be promoted, and no matter how much I do to directly save the company money, I will not be recognized or paid more than I was when I started?>>: Depends. Can you pull yourself through a degree program with what you have now, or with a different (probably lesser) source of income? If you leave now, can you come back later if things don't work out? But still, being at the top of your promotional ladder and still unsatisfied with your job and pay is a good indication to try and find your way out.
<<I'll see if I can find it and post it on the site>>: Which site? The secure area?
<<well, she IS a single mother>>: And a voracious one at that, to have both the professor and a pokemon.
<<SUCKS>>: But it's got afros. And a guy with a random koala mask. And stun breadmaking.
<<No time limit, thankfully>>: Excellent. But are you sure they haven't changed their policy?
<<From the start until it is finally due?>>: Pretty much. Edits usually continue through the week before it's due.

Leo> <<wonders why people are associating his mother with mimes and why they think she's single>>: To share one of your names with a pokemon character... I pity you.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:27:55 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Gside:<<No one likes a mime, do they? Except for Mrs. Ketchum>>

FireStorm:<<Hmm... well, she IS a single mother!>>

::wonders why people are associating his mother with mimes and why they think she's single:: :p

Leo
Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:23:54 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Bud-Clare: <All right, that sucks. But at least you're getting paid to endure the suckiness.>
But is it worth it to stay here if I am in a position where I cannot get a higher education, won't be promoted, and no matter how much I do to directly save the company money, I will not be recognized or paid more than I was when I started?
<*sighs* Right there with you.>
I'd start a club of like minded people, but I doubt I'd have time to show up.

Gside: <Missed that one. Was it a genetic blending with both minds fighting for control?>
Transported combined them with a plant. Mixed both of their minds, bodies, and clothes.
<Unfortunately no. Is it still floating around?>
Dunno. I'll see if I can find it and post it on the site.
<No one likes a mime, do they? Except for Mrs. Ketchum>
Hmm... well, she IS a single mother!
<Nope, even the guy who ate the mold is still kicking>
SUCKS!
<Oh, and if you want to read it, go to>
Ah, why not?
<But have they timed out for future degree credit yet?>
No time limit, thankfully.

Spacebabie: <Oh and Firestorm. It's not the clowns that are trying to eat you...it's the bunnies.>
I never doubted the bunnies. The bunnies are at least direct about it and will attack you whenever they can. I can respect that.
But bunnies don't wait until you are asleep to move in.
<SPOILERS CITY>
ER: Missed the first 15 minutes (dang PVR), but I really haven't watched it yet.
HE died? SW33T! I SO wanted that, but LM said "Well, they said shocking, so I don't think it will be him."
IT'S PARTY TIME!

Ed: About how much time does the writer usually have to write the story, from when it is first given to the writer until first edits are due?
From the start until it is finally due?
Fire Storm
Friday, November 21, 2003 09:49:57 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Kingdom Hearts> Actually it is a bit of both. Chain of Memories will be released on the Gameboy Advanced. Storywise it picks up right after Kingdom Hearts. But Square is releasing Kingdom Hearts 2 for the Playstation. this one follows up on the special ending in Kingdom Hearts. I have seen the trailer for this on Tech TV. Hope that clears things up.
Taleweaver
Friday, November 21, 2003 08:55:55 PM
IP: 24.205.177.107

Bud Clare> Congrats on your 4.0. I think I have a solid 3.6 or something like that, but hey, it's high school.

I don't know if you know, but attention all Kingdom Hearts fans: I believe Kingdom Hearts 2 is NOT coming to PS2. According to Nintendo Power magazine (which I so proudly receive), Square Enix said that Kingdom Hearts: Chain Of Memories is coming to Nintendo's Game Boy Advance. And, they said it was the sequel. But of course, anything could happen. From what I saw in the pics, to be a GBA game, it was nice. Also, it featured Kingdom Hearts classic characters Sora, Donald and Goofy. But, then again, it may change. (Hopes KH2 comes to GameCube)

Well, that's my news for now. Adios!
Wolf E. Urameshi - [wolf_urameshi@pleaseremovethisitstoprotectmefromspam.hotmail.com]
Lares, Puerto Rico
Friday, November 21, 2003 07:58:57 PM
IP: 66.50.106.133

BUD-CLARE - I've been out of the house on Wednesday evenings for the last few years, so once "Angel" moved there, I haven't been able to watch it. Pity.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, November 21, 2003 07:58:32 PM
IP: 63.186.0.139

Question: Interesting idea, though I admit I don’t know anything about usenet or what would be considered the major Sci-fi/Fantasy boards. Did you have any specific boards in mind? The concern we’ve had before about having people on board who aren’t coming from ‘Gargoyles’ is that it risks the series diverging from their source material. I know Todd has mentioned that this was a large difficulty in season 1 ‘Pendragon’. With proper checks and balances this could be a good solution though. Thanks for the reply.

Firestorm: Although I know what you mean, I’ve got to say I often think the proofreading is where the fun stuff happens. Once you’ve got the basics down, you can start to play around and develop it. (And speaking as someone who is awful at getting started, I think TGS is great because there’s so much to do you just have plough through because otherwise you’re never going to move onto the next project.)

As for the writing process, good question. Well first, there’s hopefully a season plan, or one is discussed at the start of breakdowns. During breakdowns, the idea is that everyone discusses each idea and then someone outlines it, or someone pitches an outline from scratch. The outline is bounced back and forth on the list until it’s worked out. Different outliners write in different levels of detail. Some provide sample dialogue, some just give basic bullet points. Here’s the opening scene from the outline for last week’s episode, written before we decided to reuse Singleton from “Waystation” instead of creating a new character for season 4, Marc Brenton:

“Duval enters his office with Marc Brenton. Duval explains his concerns about subordination in the Illuminati, particularly the power-mongering of William Powell. Duval's decision to rein back the Illuminati on the Grail issue is not going down
well at all. Of course, Brenton explains it really is the best policy to wait and let Arthur find it anyway, and then intervene: it's a more effective use of resources. Duval knows that, but the others want to be proactive. Of course, they are acting more in their own interests than anything else. Brenton impresses upon Duval his unflinching belief in the
Duval's leadership, and his dedication to him. Duval appreciates this, although what Powell might try in pursuit of the Grail he doesn't know, but certainly fears. He sighs and wonders where Arthur is - they lost him after his visit to Manhattan. He would like to know how Merlin is faring.”

Hopefully by the end of breakdowns all the story problems have been ironed out. Then writers go and… well, write them, and then it goes to edits. From there on it generally gets passed between edits and the writer. Occasionally additional writers are brought in if there’s a deadline problem or if there are elements of a story that the first writer doesn’t feel so confident on and another does. Anyway, that’s how it’s supposed to work, and generally does, just with long time lags when we’re short-staffed.

Gside: Um, I don’t quite understand what you mean. The outlines are finished when nobody has anything more to discuss, and then someone goes and writes them.

Taleweaver: Good suggestions, and I particularly agree with the structure. I’m not sure how the others would work now since we’ve got several seasons in development concurrently at present (all bar TD). Because different people feel they can specialise in different areas but not others (Todd and I tend to focus on ‘Pendragon’, Lain and Gunjack on ‘Bad Guys’ etc.), it seems like the best way to make use of everyone’s talents without having people feeling not able or inspired enough to contribute to the current season in rotation. But it does mean that each season goes very slowly, often with as few as two or three people working on it. That's the biggest hurdle at the moment, simply getting enough different opinions.

Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas, guys. Keep 'em coming.
Ed
Cambridge, England
Friday, November 21, 2003 07:27:09 PM
IP: 131.111.8.102

Gside> <<Congratulations.>>
Thank you.

<<Only happened to me once, and that was a summer session when I was taking only two CS courses.>>
One CS and two liberal arts...but what the hell. I need all the help I can get. ;)
_____________________
Todd> <<Um, could you explain the bit about filling the Grail with Mountain Dew?>>
You obviously didn't watch that episode. :P
____________________
Spacebabie> Re: that bit at the end of the Angel episode
That's exactly what I said. It's not that I've ever liked him (or disliked him) especially, but I was still thrilled. He's so wishy-washy. I like it. ;)
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Friday, November 21, 2003 07:25:03 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

SPACEBABIE - Um, could you explain the bit about filling the Grail with Mountain Dew? It honestly struck me as way too obscure for me to understand.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, November 21, 2003 07:08:35 PM
IP: 63.186.0.139

The vet's think he might have a caninie form of diabetes. They restill running some tests.

Thanks for everyone who offered kind words.

SPOILERS CITY...(no relation to spatula city)

TGS...even in paradise racial prejadice exists...sigh. I do like Vojones. He reminds me of Hagrid in a way. Next week is the first part of a season finale...Iwant to see Mary tear Morganna a new one.

Angel...Spike is solid again. I hope the Pendragon fold don't fill the grail with Mountain Dew and OMG! LINDSEY!!!!

ER...Morris needs to go, I love Coop. He's cute and crap keeps happening to him. He reminds me of Carter during the first season.
That Helicopter crash was awsome....and Ding dong Romano is dead. Let's break out the wine.
***********************************************************

*shamless plug*
New fic up in the archive and at my site.
The Shadow Project Feud
After an assignment the Redemption squad team is forced down onto an uninhabited island. While they wait for the Alliance to rescue them they are unknowingly are hunted down by the enemy, who in turn are hunted down by the unknown.

Oh and Firestorm. It's not the clowns that are trying to eat you...it's the bunnies.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Friday, November 21, 2003 02:28:00 PM
IP: 4.72.71.209

Ed> Asking for opinions on TGS? Oh, you've started something now. Well my experience might be dated, but I think having basic framework for the season helps the most. The first two seasons of the main cycle went at fast pace for a lot of reasons, but the SUW arc helped keep story ideas and interest focused. Compared to the third season which seemed all over the map. Or compare the first and second halves of Timedancer season 3. The first half dealt more with Brooklyn's loss. The second half seemed more whatever-goes. The five stages of grief gave the earlier stories structure.

Another idea might be to encourage writers to use the full cast. Character centered eps should be balanced with ones where to whole cast is engaged. Also it helps emphasize who is in the main cast. This season of Pendragon has been great at employing more of the neoknights. Compared to last season where most of the time they sat around the Magic shop sitting on their hands. Stories that utilize everything the character brings certainly challenge the writer and give more to shoot for.

As for the mechanics of story development. Maybe you can designate each writer to a sort of mandatory peer edit. I saw breakdowns change from a free-for-all where you got input from a lot of people. With so many ideas being thrown around some things were bound to stick. Over time, breakdowns quieted down to were only three or four would comment regularly. I don't know if that's the case today, but maybe you can institute something like if you don't participate in one breakdowns you don't get as much say in the next one. I recall many staffers bowing out of working on Dark Ages only to pop up during Timedancer breakdowns. Or maybe open breakdowns for the next series a little earlier for those who have helped work in the previous one; an Early Bird Special.

Just my thoughts.
Taleweaver
Friday, November 21, 2003 10:52:19 AM
IP: 24.205.177.107

Ed> <<or otherwise finding ways to help develop TGS?>>: Well, I'm going to need a list of the points where stories make stops on the way to being written, and a list of anything else you want automated.

Fire Storm> <<We could always try what happened in that one episode of Voyager (Tuvix)>>: Missed that one. Was it a genetic blending with both minds fighting for control?
<<Ever see that Kungfu sex fighting movie on the net a few years ago?>>: Unfortunately no. Is it still floating around?
<<Oh MR. MIME! Come here Mr. Mime!>>: No one likes a mime, do they? Except for Mrs. Ketchum.
<<Did anyone die any other way? Or hurt so bad that they should have?>>: Nope, even the guy who ate the mold is still kicking. Of course, you could always hope for a tragic baking accident to hapen sometime. Just not to Koalaman or afroboy II (afro seniority lies with Nabesin). Oh, and if you want to read it, go to http://www.snoopycool.com/manga/japan/index.htm .
<>: But have they timed out for future degree credit yet?

Bud Clare> <>: Congratulations. Only happened to me once, and that was a summer session when I was taking only two CS courses.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, November 21, 2003 12:19:43 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

*stumbles in kinda disoriented*

I got a 4.0 this quarter. *boggles* I'd be ecstatic, if I hadn't been feeling woozy for two days straight. Ought to make my test tomorrow fun. (Yes, _technically_ I don't have a 4.0 yet, but I'd basically have to not show up for the test to get less than an A in anthropology.)
___________________
Fire Storm> <<Sad thing: I have already passed the classes that the on-line ones are based on.>>
All right, that sucks. But at least you're getting paid to endure the suckiness.

<>
*sighs* Right there with you.
__________________
Must...study...
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Thursday, November 20, 2003 09:02:26 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Wedding news: LM finally picked a dress and we put down a deposit on the ceremony/reception site, so that's all good.

Gside: <How are we going to work that? Put my brain in your body, you get the right half, I get the left?>
I dunno. We could always try what happened in that one episode of Voyager (Tuvix)
<Well, if you say so. You'd have to go at it vanilla for a while, then use the leakages on your target for the facial>
Hmm... COULD work...
Ever see that Kungfu sex fighting movie on the net a few years ago? One where the man climaxes like a fire hose?
<Nintendo got involved, and didn't want anything dying while anyone watched.>
That's no fun! I can imagine it now...
Pokemon hunting season where they "thin the numbers"
Hmm...
Oh MR. MIME! Come here Mr. Mime!

Yes. Outwit. Outlast. Outlive.
<Like Yakitate!! Japan. But no one got poisoned in it, except maybe the guy who ate all the moldy table bread>
Did anyone die any other way? Or hurt so bad that they should have?

DPH: <Is it going to be worth the extra expense of having the capactity to burn dvds as opposed to just playing them?>
Well... that depends on how much you plan on burning.

I'd say don't bother, at least right now. I mean, yeah, sure, it would work and burners can play normal DVD's, but if you really aren't going to use the burning feature, it's not really worth it.

Bud-Clare: <Sorry. Have you tried adding explosions to the theory?>
Explosions do make clowns more fun...
<But can't you just start and hope that by the time you run out of online courses to take, you've got a better work schedule?>
Sad thing: I have already passed the classes that the on-line ones are based on.

Ed: <Are there any people here who would quite like to participate in helping the project but feel prohibited by factors (and if so, what factors are they)?>
The inability to write something that I am happy enough with to publish without having it proofread and having feedback on it, and the fear about the feedback itself.
SO I write stuff, want it proofread before I publish it, but I fear having it proofread so much that I do not want to have it proofread, and as a result, it all gets written but no one else ever looks at it.
Now, combine that with the fact that TGS related stories are read in the order of a few hundred readers a week...
Oh, that, and while I have occasionally felt like writing lately, it's mostly just turned into re-reading what I have written and not actually felt like writing new stuff, even though I have fairly well thought out ideas and plotlines.
I'd say lack of time, but in all honesty, that's mostly a crock. I have time... I just don't utilize it well.
SO, basically... excuses.

Can you tell me a few things about the TGS writing process? Are writers (at least when there are more than a few staff writers) given outlines, story idea's, or just general concepts?
Fire Storm
Thursday, November 20, 2003 08:28:49 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

<What ideas or suggestions do you have for increasing involvement or otherwise finding ways to help develop TGS?>

How about broadening your advertising for recruitment drives and the release of stories in general? Why not try Usenet and all the major Science Fiction or Fantasy boards in your attempt to recruit members. It would certainly help seeing how you only had four people working on Pendragon with two of them doing the major concepts and writing.
Question
Thursday, November 20, 2003 06:44:26 PM
IP: 144.92.164.204

Hardwing: 'Pendragon' is the season we are currently releasing and we'll continue with that season until it's finished (as it happens, on 9 December). The fans have waited a long time for it since season 3 ended. That said, 'Gargoyles' is deep in development and I personally think is shaping up to be very exciting indeed. The next season released will be 'Bad Guys' early in 2004, followed by either season 4 'Gargoyles' or season 3 'Dark Ages'.

But as you say, there are staff shortages. This isn’t because everyone is working on 'Pendragon'. Indeed, you'll count only four credits on stories this season - Todd, Mandi, Nicodemus and myself, although we certainly do owe a lot to many people that don't receive credits on individual episodes. It’s a problem across the board – ‘Bad Guys’, ‘Gargoyles’, ‘Pendragon’, ‘Dark Ages’ and probably ‘Timedancer’ (though it isn’t in development yet for me to say for sure) are all short of staff. Having said that, many of the upcoming seasons are – like ‘Pendragon’ – longer than has been the TGS trend in recent years, and there’s a fair chance that hiatuses between seasons will be significantly shorter too. But we’re still limited in quantity, and potentially also in quality, of stories by the low numbers of people that currently are willing and able to help on the project. It’s a matter we’re frequently trying to solve, and already there are a number of ideas being considered, some of which you’ll see in the not too distant future.

But all the same, I’d like to put the question out the room. We’ve done this before once or twice but hopefully with new stories being released at present, more people with an interest in the matter will be stopping by.

***QUESTION FOR THE COMMENT ROOM***

What ideas or suggestions do you have for increasing involvement or otherwise finding ways to help develop TGS? Are there any people here who would quite like to participate in helping the project but feel prohibited by factors (and if so, what factors are they)?

If anyone has suggestions, questions or just general observations, I’m sure the staff would love to hear them.
Ed
Cambridge, England
Thursday, November 20, 2003 06:23:09 PM
IP: 131.111.8.98

I just want to ask if anyone works actually on another project than Pendragon... Gargoyles should be continued!
Hardwing - [hardwing@web.de]
The Ruhr, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Thursday, November 20, 2003 04:45:24 PM
IP: 80.143.196.177

dph>> <<pay-per-view of the Democratic presidential candidates>> id be all for that, as long as i could get one for bush and his cronies too. :P
lain
Thursday, November 20, 2003 02:15:14 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

DPH:<Yea, I bet Hastings out of $2.69. How? I started to rent "Daredevil the Movie" (rental price $3.69) and accidently picked up "Daredevil vs Spiderman" (rental price $1). The mistake occured after I rented "Daredevil vs Spiderman" so I told the clerk and switched movies. They didn't catch that the movies rented at different prices. Yea!!!>
And you should pray that no one does catch the price difference when you return the movies!

<I heard this suggestion on the radio: how about having a pay-per-view of the Democratic presidential candidates debating, while each one is hooked up to a lie detector test. I'm pretty sure the Green Baron would pay for that.>

Lie detectors LOL! It would be funnier if they were also hooked up to lower powered electric chairs.

Spacebabie: You have my deepest symphathies about your dog.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Thursday, November 20, 2003 01:30:29 PM
IP: 216.234.99.193

Fire Storm> <>
Sorry. Have you tried adding explosions to the theory?

<<SOME... but my community college doesn't have ALL the classes I need through on-line learning, and my CC guarantees that colleges will accept the transfer credit, so I am screwed.>>
But can't you just start and hope that by the time you run out of online courses to take, you've got a better work schedule?
_______________
Spacebabie> *hugs* I hope that your dog is bouncy again soon.
______________
lain> <<he gets a big visit to the vets tomorrow, i think he has a bit of a fever, poor guy.>>
Poor sick puppies. What a weird week. I hope he feels better soon too.

<<he has serious gingevitis and some rotten teeth.>>
Well that can't be helping his breath any. Poor baby. How do you feed him while his gums are healing?
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Thursday, November 20, 2003 04:13:31 AM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Yea, I bet Hastings out of $2.69. How? I started to rent "Daredevil the Movie" (rental price $3.69) and accidently picked up "Daredevil vs Spiderman" (rental price $1). The mistake occured after I rented "Daredevil vs Spiderman" so I told the clerk and switched movies. They didn't catch that the movies rented at different prices. Yea!!!

Right now, I'm searching cnet for the price of dvd-rom burner for my pc. Is it going to be worth the extra expense of having the capactity to burn dvds as opposed to just playing them? I can get a dvd-rom for my pc for ~$50. It looks like it would cost ~$100-$150 for a dvd burner for my pc. I barely use my cd burner right now.

Ed - <It’s called “Flight of the Holy Hand Grenade”> Funny, I thought the title was "King Arthur Meets the Holy Etiquette Police". ;)

I heard this suggestion on the radio: how about having a pay-per-view of the Democratic presidential candidates debating, while each one is hooked up to a lie detector test. I'm pretty sure the Green Baron would pay for that.

Hmm. By accident, I typed in "www.bestbudy.com" instead of "www.bestbuy.com" and couldn't find any listings.

Oh yea, got another idea. If supposedly every US Senator and Representative supports our troops, then ask him/her what their stance is on raising pay for the military so that military personell and their families don't have to go on welfare.
DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, November 20, 2003 02:14:31 AM
IP: 204.94.193.56

Speaking of songs,
does Limp Bizkit's cover of "behind blue eyes"
anyone else of the Old Spawn cartoon
e.g. the episode with the mayer's son kidnapping cyane, it
when spawn maimed/ko/killed and let cyane go, cyane say's to wanda "don't cry mommy the man saved me"
ended with wanda asking her "what man?"
and she responds with "the sad man" and holds open her hand and it had al's wedding band in it.
long story to explain it but, anyone else reminded of it?

sean
Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:15:39 AM
IP: 207.6.149.113

Fire Storm> <<all we need to do is find a country with lax medical experimentation laws and merge the two of us>>: How are we going to work that? Put my brain in your body, you get the right half, I get the left?
<<Gotta violate them all>>: Well, if you say so. You'd have to go at it vanilla for a while, then use the leakages on your target for the facial.
<<So why isn't Pokemon hunting more common?>>: Nintendo got involved, and didn't want anything dying while anyone watched.
<<Then take her out and collect the insurance money>>: I can survive a bit longer.
<<Sounds like an anime>>: Like Yakitate!! Japan. But no one got poisoned in it, except maybe the guy who ate all the moldy table bread.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 10:50:11 PM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Lain: <*falls off chair* BRILLIANT!! i can see it now... :D>
When I first heard that song, I instantly thought of Gargoyles, especially Thailog.

Gside: <I've got a BA, you've got a job (any job at all). Put us together, and we're doing pretty well for ourselves.>
Now, all we need to do is find a country with lax medical experimentation laws and merge the two of us so we can be UNSTOPPABLE!
<But you want to start similar to a shape that she's familiar with. Though I'm not sure if they make anything bent quite like that>
Duct Tape can change the shape well enough!
<And they wouldn't in Jersey?>
That's the problem. They would. So... where to dump them...
Hmm... Well, Yucca Mountain won't be used for some time...
<Not quite, and I'm not sure how to describe it better without violating any ratings.>
Gotta violate them all
<Of course they are, you've seen the way they go at it in the doujin. And how many episodes of the series have they done so far?>
I dunno. 3, 4 million? So why isn't Pokemon hunting more common?
<That, and I'm still under my mother's thumb, with her looking out for weight and addiction control>
Then take her out and collect the insurance money!
<But it can't be very good, otherwise they might tempt good people.>
But the good people will know where to find the stuff without AOL. The ones that go back to AOL... Well, they wern't REALLY net people anyway.

Sounds like an anime.
Fire Storm
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 08:50:27 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

spacie>> <<My large dalmation, Frisky, had to be taken to the vet today>> my puppy had to go to the vets today, too. they think he has bordetella and dog influenza, poor guy. they couldnt find a vein in his leg to draw blood for the heartworm test and had to poke him about 5 times with the needle - he just stood there and let them poke. they said he was "a keeper" and the best behaved jack russell theyd ever seen. very thankfully, he doesnt have heartworm and has started on preventative. he also got his rabies shot and they say to bring him back in about 10 days for the rest of his immunizations, after the coughing and gurgling and whatnot sorts itself out. he needs to have his teeth cleaned really badly and at least three of them will have to be pulled because hes previously been so neglected and he has serious gingevitis and some rotten teeth.
im so happy that hes going to be ok - i stayed up with him all night last night because he was breathing so poorly, i thought they were going to have to put him down.

i hope your puppy fares well too, and gunner and i send wet noses and snuggles. im sure he will be OK :)
lain
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 08:35:05 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Lain: Ssssshhh... you’ll give away my penchant for Sudden Random Hypocrisy (TM).
... What?
... Oh. Drat.

TheTrok: I believe there’s going to be an announcement of the ‘Bad Guys’ release date at some point soon. Not sure when, though.

Glad to see everyone’s enjoying the latest ‘Pendragon’ episode. It’s always great to see lots of different reviews and opinions. Incidentally, I hope everyone’s looking forward to next week, which is the beginning of the season 4 finale. It’s called “Flight of the Holy Hand Grenade”. (Well, okay, it’s not called that, but the rest is true...)
Ed
Cambridge, England
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 07:28:22 PM
IP: 131.111.8.98

Well, the real reason is that it's a plothole that we didn't catch.

But, as I said before, I think that the best in-story explanation was that Nyctimus was a target for blackmail since only Togrul knew his secret, but Mary's secret had been revealed in front of all the Wardens.

But, yes, it's one of those plotholes that we're stuck with since the whole story would fall apart without it; unfortunately, we have a very small Breakdowns and Edits staff for "Pendragon" at present (just myself and Ed Reynolds most of the time), so it's easier for things like that to slip past us.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 07:05:24 PM
IP: 65.178.241.191

***TGS SPOILERS!***

I didn't really understand why if Togral was so hot to get rid of Mary because she was a Werewolf during the day, then why did he choose to let Nyctimus stay so he could blackmail? Since he was also a Werewolf wouldn't Togral be just as eager to get rid of Nyctimus as well? It just seems like a contradiction to me.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 03:23:29 PM
IP: 216.234.99.116

It'll be ok Spacebabie. Dottie-dog sends a cyber get well bone to your doggie. :)
Dezi
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 01:27:18 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

My large dalmation, Frisky, had to be taken to the vet today.

he can't get up and walk around. He hasn't eaten in a few days and hasn't had a boewel movment...he's been throwing up and he's been panting a lot.

My fahter thinks he has an intestinal blockage.

My father and brother had to slide him off the couch and onto a large dog matress and sue that to carry him to the truck so they can take him to the vet.

I can really use some prayers...no matter what your religion is, or vibes or just keep him in your thoughts.
Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:30:50 PM
IP: 4.72.73.12

Patrick- That's it? I thought he was older than that.
Revel
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:26:50 PM
IP: 129.120.174.168

Tornado watch, cha-cha-cha...maybe all of my homework assignments will blow away. :) I wish we had a roof, so I could see one.

Hope you all are having a good semester (for those in college), and for those who aren't, hope you're having a good holiday season.

Cha-cha-cha
Niamhgold
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:17:04 AM
IP: 209.143.83.31

I'm surprised no one mentioned this yesterday...

Happy birthday to Mickey Mouse. He looks good for 75, don't he?
Patrick
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 06:52:34 AM
IP: 65.43.159.202

See? AMGC has me as artist of the month.

That means you should go look at the AMGC, then follow the link to my site, and leave me COMMENTY GOODNESS in my guestbook. ; )

...please?

oh, and Siryn, can you contact me if you happen to see me online? I'm not sure when I'll be on in the next 2 weeks, but if I happen to pop up...?
Lynati
bedtime
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 04:09:38 AM
IP: 64.219.129.155

<These are traditional legendary creatures, in fact, and not creations of the TGS staff. >

I know that, but that still doesn't make the concepts any more silly especially the vegetable lambs which were originally developed from the Europeans' misconceptions on the idea of cotton. Perhaps it's just my lack of imagination.
Question
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 03:49:25 AM
IP: 144.92.164.204

Fire Storm> <>: I've got a BA, you've got a job (any job at all). Put us together, and we're doing pretty well for ourselves.
<<Too boring. Start on 9v>>: But you want to start similar to a shape that she's familiar with. Though I'm not sure if they make anything bent quite like that.
<<Oh wait... then they will mutate>>: And they wouldn't in Jersey?
<<One you get when you are on the rebound?>>: Not quite, and I'm not sure how to describe it better without violating any ratings.
<<Unless there are way too friggin many Pokemon>>: Of course they are, you've seen the way they go at it in the doujin. And how many episodes of the series have they done so far?
<<No sugar and no mighty 'ffeine? How do you exist?>>: I guess I don't.
<<And you can have fried foods but NOT those two?>>: The only fried foods I tend to have are ones I fried myself. That, and I'm still under my mother's thumb, with her looking out for weight and addiction control.
<<We need a petition then. AOL needs more specialized content and a way to keep newbies off the net in general>>: But it can't be very good, otherwise they might tempt good people.
<>: I say it should be an unknowing business comptitor who keeps trying, thinking somethign goes wrong each time.

Lain> <<*falls off chair* BRILLIANT!! i can see it now>>: Is it anything like the Evangelion AMV?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 01:19:13 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

bud-clare>> <<Yip Yaps. They come in little tins>> never heard of em, but thanks. he gets a big visit to the vets tomorrow, i think he has a bit of a fever, poor guy.

ed>> <<Vinnie & Storyseeker: Good grief. May I suggest in future if you want to continue with "regular posting" you actually put forward a "regular post" rather than randomly bossing others about or shouting at others?>> mrow! ;)

TheTrok>> <<Hello does anyone know how far BAD GUYS is starting? or knows anything about what it is about?>> sorry but i dont understand your first question... :\ as for what it is about, i suggest checking out the "ask greg" archives, in particular the "bad guys" section located at: http://www.s8.org/cgi-bin/ag_read.cgi?Bad_Guys. that should give you a starting place :)

todd>> <> or numb.

siryn>> <<Could you email me some snippets or ideas concerning those pictures we discussed?>> checky emaily.

fire storm>> <<Then Merlin and Thailog could start a music group, with their main song being a cover for Weird Al.
"I think I am a clone now...">> *falls off chair* BRILLIANT!! i can see it now... :D
lain
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:38:30 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

I'd make comments about Michael Jackson, but it's just too easy to be funny.

Jaden: <If Farscape is coming back I guess it means that the people who run Sci-fi actually realized that they made a mistake>
...
Yeah... that's true... damn. I knew there was a flaw with that idea.
<As for the guy that willingly joined the circus; wasn't he the guy that tried to kill himself?>
Yup. He is the Niagara Falls jumper... and he's a local boy.
Not proud of that.

Bud Clare: < They must be stress clowns. They go away when you know you're not going to have to work the crappy shift anymore>
I mean, yeah, sure, that's a possibility, but it's so... boring.
<It all becomes clear now>
Aside from the bike, of course. But really... WHY would
<Can't you take some classes through distance learning?>
SOME... but my community college doesn't have ALL the classes I need through on-line learning, and my CC guarantees that colleges will accept the transfer credit, so I am screwed.
BUT I am gonna go on-line to get a BA in CompSci so I can get a better job.

Gside: <Only 15? You're loosing it>
Just bad timing. A few of them got out a minute or two earlier.
<Maybe you should start small, perhaps a few AAs working up to Ds before you move on to alternating>
Na. Too boring. Start on 9v. Maybe she's worried that there is too much current... maybe 10KV would be better...
<Why are you sending them to me? I haven't don't anything yet.>
Ah, just send them to Love Canal
Oh wait... then they will mutate...
<Taken the right wrong way, it could be a rebound buck cake facial
One you get when you are on the rebound?
<Only sometimes. We're also concurrently doing a straing flying mouse waltz>
Which is what happens when people get angry at their computer.
<Well, she's got her own, and she must be able to live without whips and such if she chose to specialize in water. Or maybe she thought there would be more octopi>
Maybe she likes the occasional whip. And we all know that octopi are only good for a few things: Calamari, throwing on the ice during playoffs, and substitute tentacle porn
<Well, it'd be harder to rationalize turning your pet into something else>
True. Really though, what kind of parents ENCOURAGE their children to cage up creatures and force them to fight? Unless there are way too friggin many Pokemon
<But his are always green and smell of socks>
Consider it a bonus
<Then everyone would be cursed to my world>
Wait. No sugar and no mighty 'ffeine? How do you exist?
And you can have fried foods but NOT those two?
<Well, AOL used to do a better job, what with focusing on their own proprietary content.>
We need a petition then. AOL needs more specialized content and a way to keep newbies off the net in general.
<Were any barrels used ironically?>
Well... by the time I got to him... um... well...
Let's just say that he tripped over the barrel and was stuck that way by the animal trainer. Yeah... and I'll leave it at that.

DPH: <Anybody know if I can expect to get a reasonably good one for less than $100?>
Even CompUSA has them for under $75
<What would it take for me to capture images from my tv and also use my computer as a vcr?>
An ATI All-in-Wonder card, and a AIW 128 can be had for under $130, maybe even $100

Yep. In fact, many PVR's (like Tvio) use ATI technology

***TGS SPOILERS!***

You know... I that that smelt only referred to melting metals and not smell. And now I know.

It's nice to see the Sanctuary again. Pretty cool, in fact.
I like the ending... but, then again, I AM evil.

Storyseeker: <Oh well, life goes on, who's the next character you got in line to be poisoned and killed?>
Well, Elisa was saved from poison... hmm... and Puck... and Brooklyn...
Hmm...
Ya know, I personally say that it should be Demona, just for kicks.
<maybe Merlin could end up taking Demona's offer about transferring his soul to a clone body?>
Then Merlin and Thailog could start a music group, with their main song being a cover for Weird Al.
"I think I am a clone now..."

***END SPOILERS!***

Links... what to do, what to do?
Laugh at Michael Jackson, or the guy that got his finger stuck in a pay phone?
The guy that got his finger stuck in a pay phone.
Fire Storm
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:52:15 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

I rented "Atlantis: the Lost Empire" and "Atlantis: Milo's return" and watched them back to back. One question: the ending of "Atlantis: Milo's Return" made me want a follow-up more so than "Atlantis: the Lost Empire". Is there any hope for getting another "Atlantis Movie" released?

I've been trying to locate a copy of "The Matrix" on vhs [since I don't have a dvd-player], but haven't had any luck finding it.

Has TF: The Movie been put on DVD? Hastings doesn't rent the video, only sells it and I don't put my faith in vhs tapes lasting indefinitely.

I am strongly considering buying a dvd-rom for my pc. Anybody know if I can expect to get a reasonably good one for less than $100?

What would it take for me to capture images from my tv and also use my computer as a vcr? I mean, hypothetically, I could get better quality using my computer to record shows as opposed to using a vcr, right?

I decided to make a homemade subway sandwich using a french loaf (that looked like the best approximation to what I wanted), but the results have . . not been satisfying. But type of bread is actually used to make those foot long subway sandwiches and where can I get some?

I've been playing around with Excel, producing a spreadsheet that has a file size greater than 2 megabytes. No, I'm not done yet playing around with stats.

Ok, I got a seriously whacky question: Why can't I do well on tests produced by a teacher who is a kindred spirit? You would think I could do better because I understand how the teacher operates, but apparantly not.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:39:38 PM
IP: 204.94.193.39

QUESTION - In response to some of the queries that you've raised:

[Found a lot of the concepts in the episode silly such as ant-lions(how exactly do they survive on their own?) and vegetable lambs(wtf!)]

These are traditional legendary creatures, in fact, and not creations of the TGS staff.

[-Why didn't Togrul sack Nyctimus if he knew the fellow was a werewolf? He certainly tried to get rid of Mary for being one and Arthur for just being who he is.]

I suspect that, since he found out about Nyctimus being a werewolf under circumstances where only he knew the boy's secret (as opposed to Mary's case, where the whole community knew that she was a werewolf), it occurred to him that he could use the information to blackmail Nyctimus into doing unpleasant chores.

[-Does the Preserves also try and preserve the creatures made by the unseelies since we have life threatening ones like the catoblepas existing here or do they just go for ones mentioned in Herodotus or Pliny?]

Well, the catoblepas aren't life-threatening as long as they drink from the Chalice of Kuan Yin regularly. As for your question, I suppose that they go for "mythical creatures" in general, though since none of the animals that you saw in the Preserve were Unseelie creations, we don't know what their stance is on them. (Most of the original Unseelie-bred creatures are either extinct or hiding somewhere else, in any case.)

[-I thought that Greg said that unicorns were either gargoyles like Una or just Fair Folk trying to get their jollies or is this a point that TGS decided to diverge with Greg? ]

Divergence.

[-Why exactly are the wardens so hostile towards outside humans? Is it because Madoc paid them a visit in Darkest Hour and are the warden even human seeing how Togrul was able to smell that Mary was a werewolf?]

They're not hostile towards outside humans in general. However, they originally encountered Arthur and Mary with the unicorn under what appeared to be suspicious circumstances, which colored their attitude towards the two of them a little. As for Togrul, maybe he just has a better sense of smell than most. But he was human.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 07:12:19 PM
IP: 63.186.1.132

TOP THIRTY in the name of 70% laziness.
silvadel
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 03:36:49 PM
IP: 24.225.134.30

Sorry for the double post.

Lain> Could you email me some snippets or ideas concerning those pictures we discussed? :) That would help a lot. ^_^
Thanks!!!
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:22:14 PM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Just a quick FYI

MGC: Monthly Gargoyles Art Contest is accepting submissions for the Sci-fi Gargoyles Topic.

AMGC: Adult Monthly Gargoyles Contest is accepting submissions for 'Fun with Food'

Artists of the Month
Mgc: Y2Hecate
AMGC: Lynati

MGC winners for October
Most Artistic: Sara Berkley
Most Creative: Tiger Lily
(AMGC voting is currently ongoing)

Congratulations to our winners and to all the artists who continue to submit! Thankyou very much!
Siryn - [ekkapinto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:20:02 PM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Found a lot of the concepts in the episode silly such as ant-lions(how exactly do they survive on their own?) and vegetable lambs(wtf!) though I was disappointed that they didn't expand on the concept of the Sanctuary introduced in Timedancer which I always found quite interesting. But the references to Timedancer and Coldstone and the introduction of the neuri and two potential antagonists into TGS certainly made up for it.

Lots of Questions

-Why didn't Togrul sack Nyctimus if he knew the fellow was a werewolf? He certainly tried to get rid of Mary for being one and Arthur for just being who he is.

-Does the Preserves also try and preserve the creatures made by the unseelies since we have life threatening ones like the catoblepas existing here or do they just go for ones mentioned in Herodotus or Pliny?

-I thought that Greg said that unicorns were either gargoyles like Una or just Fair Folk trying to get their jollies or is this a point that TGS decided to diverge with Greg?

-Why exactly are the wardens so hostile towards outside humans? Is it because Madoc paid them a visit in Darkest Hour and are the warden even human seeing how Togrul was able to smell that Mary was a werewolf?
Question
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:43:49 AM
IP: 144.92.164.204

STORYSEEKER - Good point about Mary. I suppose that she must have done all the crying before Arthur and Griff entered the room, or else was so shocked and griefstricken that she wasn't even able to weep.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 07:29:12 AM
IP: 63.186.1.12

Hello does anyone know how far BAD GUYS is starting? or knows anything about what it is about? thanks
TheTrok
Pamplona, Navarra, Spain
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 06:29:48 AM
IP: 130.206.158.234

[SPOILERS]

Great new story! I can't help wondering what's going to happen to Nyctimus and Togrul? I mean, where in the world does a werewolf and an ex-warden go?! Will they seek revenge? Hmmm... I wonder if Nyctimus would ever consider going to visit the Antarctic? He could be a companion to the Fenris wolf.

Alas, is this the end of poor Merlin??? Oh well, life goes on, who's the next character you got in line to be poisoned and killed? lol

Since their quest has apparently ending up being a a complete and total flop, then maybe Merlin could end up taking Demona's offer about transferring his soul to a clone body?

I was expecting more of a reaction though from Mary. I expecting full blown tears, hysteria and screaming. I mean, I know she's done that before in the last fic, but even so, now they all believe without a doubt that Merlin is lost to them, so I expected more grief from her.

If the quest really is a failure then maybe Morgana really is the only one who can help now? Trouble is, even if she does really love Mary as a daughter, would she even put aside her hatred for her by saving her most hated enemy???
Storyseeker - [Storyseeker.1@btopenworld.com]
Birmingham, UK
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 05:50:38 AM
IP: 217.150.117.210

TGS proudly presents a Pendragon Season 4 Story . . .

Preservation

Story idea by Todd Jensen

Written by Todd Jensen

Original artwork by Lain

Click my name, go to the link at the top of the cr that says "Current Episode", or visit http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/ce.html to read this week's story.

*scampers off to enjoy a homemade subway sandwich*
DPH - [<--Click here to read this week's story]
AR, USA
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 01:35:21 AM
IP: 204.94.193.45

Fire Storm> <<Car bomb in the little car. 15 dead>>: Only 15? You're loosing it.
<<LM freaks out when I pull out the buzz box>>: Maybe you should start small, perhaps a few AAs working up to Ds before you move on to alternating.
<<DAMN YOU CLOWNS! DAMN YOU TO NEW JERSEY!>>: Why are you sending them to me? I haven't don't anything yet.
<<Any relation to buck cake facials?>>: Taken the right wrong way, it could be a rebound buck cake facial.
<<THAT explains all the "band practice." You all swing together>>: Only sometimes. We're also concurrently doing a straing flying mouse waltz.
<<That's why Misty hung around with Ash>>: Well, she's got her own, and she must be able to live without whips and such if she chose to specialize in water. Or maybe she thought there would be more octopi.
<<What would we do without you?>>: Well, it'd be harder to rationalize turning your pet into something else.
<<Or that bum on the corner>>: But his are always green and smell of socks.
<<Probably would make it caffeine and sugar free too>>: Then everyone would be cursed to my world.
<<Too bad AOL and it's kind aren't better equipped to protect the net from their users>>: Well, AOL used to do a better job, what with focusing on their own proprietary content.
<<YEP! It was FUN! He go boom!>>: Were any barrels used ironically?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:53:16 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Vinnie & Storyseeker: Good grief. May I suggest in future if you want to continue with "regular posting" you actually put forward a "regular post" rather than randomly bossing others about or shouting at others? I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re enforcing a ‘rule’ about the ‘top ten’ for the ‘good of the comment room’ but even I think that’s flimsy. (And in any event, the ‘top ten’ notion only really came into being at that time in the TGS room’s existence where posts came in so fast that there was often a lot of confusion with people posting their claims at the same time. At the old S8, people just counted until they'd run out of new people, and they got on with their posts at the same time.)

Sean: You’re actually 14th because Vinnie posted twice. :)
Ed
Monday, November 17, 2003 07:07:34 PM
IP: 131.111.8.102

lain> <<the only downside is he has some SERIOUSLY bad dog-breath>>
Yip Yaps. They come in little tins.
________________
Fire Storm> <<Are you listening, or just smiling and nodding your head?>>
Neither, really.

<<The clowns left me alone and I was able to curl up on the floor and get 3 good hours of sleep.>>
They must be stress clowns. They go away when you know you're not going to have to work the crappy shift anymore. ;)

<<That's why Misty hung around with Ash.>>
It all becomes clear now...

<<Yeah... they still are making the shift rotating so I cannot go to school... but... umm... damn.>>
Can't you take some classes through distance learning?
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Monday, November 17, 2003 06:37:24 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Well, I see our top 10 has turned into the top 15...

Anyhoo, Someone game me this link...it's a flash movie of Romeo and Juliet, in L33t! it's pretty funny. Contains some bad language, and kinda long (so if you have dial-up, I don't recommend it!), but worth it!
Andrea - [<----Romeo and Juliet, in L33t]
Monday, November 17, 2003 05:58:51 PM
IP: 130.111.154.169

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!
Storyseeker
Monday, November 17, 2003 05:33:05 PM
IP: 81.135.68.253

15th woo!
sean
Monday, November 17, 2003 03:32:50 PM
IP: 207.6.149.113

OK, 14, enough now and just get on with the regular posting.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Monday, November 17, 2003 01:02:30 PM
IP: 216.234.99.44

Let's jinx it.

13th.
Ed
Cambridge, England
Monday, November 17, 2003 12:36:58 PM
IP: 131.111.8.102

Let's make it an even dozen. Number 12!
Patrick
Monday, November 17, 2003 12:25:56 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

ok eleventh to end it!
Dezi
Monday, November 17, 2003 09:09:19 AM
IP: 68.58.158.101

10th?
Leo
Monday, November 17, 2003 07:23:26 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

9th?
Graymonk
Monday, November 17, 2003 07:11:17 AM
IP: 198.164.140.175

Eight, Acht, Ocho (8)
TheTrok
Pamplona, Navarra, Spain
Monday, November 17, 2003 06:28:30 AM
IP: 130.206.158.232

Seven(7)
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Monday, November 17, 2003 02:21:17 AM
IP: 216.234.99.208

sixes
Lynati
Monday, November 17, 2003 02:04:49 AM
IP: 65.66.150.149

5 is right out!
Andrea
Monday, November 17, 2003 01:50:48 AM
IP: 130.111.154.169

Thou shalt not count to four.
Josh
Monday, November 17, 2003 01:47:38 AM
IP: 64.161.25.216

3
lain
Monday, November 17, 2003 01:46:17 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

2nd
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, November 17, 2003 01:31:08 AM
IP: 204.94.193.67

Well... um... First, I guess.
Wasn't expecting that.
Fire Storm and Lady Mystic
Monday, November 17, 2003 01:30:21 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Jaden: <wasn't he the guy that tried to kill himself?>
Yep, and since he failed that way, he decided to let the clowns do it for him.
Not a real "Do it Yourself" kinda guy, I guess.
Fire Storm
Monday, November 17, 2003 01:29:35 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3