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I went and saw "Brother Bear" today. A film made totally in the Disney tradition - early family loss, characters thrown together in a quest and finding what they were searching for was there all the time,cute cartoon comic relief animals, and some pretty visuals and the film was nearly ruined by an awful Phil Collins musical score. Note to Disney the big sweeping ballad is not always necessary. The only saving grace is all of the music was instantly forgettable and thus not annoying hours later.

Gargoyles and the Holidays - Get your favorite clannie the gift of the Gathering. How about a registration? Already have one? Then we have tee shirts, banquet reservations and books. Give the gift of Gargoyles, the gift that keeps on giving.
kathy
Sunday, December 7, 2003 07:43:25 PM
IP: 66.82.195.100

Patrick: <Sheesh. Doesn't anyone know sarcasm when they see it anymore?>
Sometimes. Then sometimes I ignore it. This time...
Ah, who cares? It was funny to me

Green Baron: <but to be honest I just despise the business savvy subhuman>
Hey! Don't say bad things about the subhumans!

Gside: <If you could freely revisit, it just might be worth getting out>
Oh yeah. I want to see how that new Matrix game that is based on life in the Matrix after Revolutions is.
<If you could freely revisit, it just might be worth getting out>
Maybe, just maybe... you are a moral and decent person
<I'd try to get the vendor to give them a freebie, for "being so good to the movement".>
Yeah! That too! I would LOVE to get video of that!
<I'd need to supply you with a complete automatically updated index of internet tentacle hentai?>
While that is a good bribe to get into the circle of world domination, it is NOT a way to get lotto money...
Unless there is live action stuff in there too!
<I'll just have to be a good little boy, then?>
Maybe. Or maybe that's the way to get the procedure done.
I love rehabilitation!
<Hey, my father never did that.>
I don't want to know if my father did that.

Bud-Clare: <YES! Make the twits understand the full depth of their error.>
With my luck, the twits would think that is a better idea.

Weather: Well, it's mild here (30), no snow, and no real accumulation expected... well, any time soon.
Fire Storm - [<--- My weekly forecast]
Sunday, December 7, 2003 05:42:08 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

I'll raise your cold and add snowy to the equation... This is far too early in the season to have a foot of snow on the ground...
silvadel
Sunday, December 7, 2003 12:46:00 PM
IP: 24.225.134.30

It's cold! sigh... Just surfing the room and realize I missed the marriage debate/fw, ah well... with Christmas breathing down my neck I don't have time for big posts.

Anyone doing something Gargoyles related for Christmas? It occurred to me the danglers make nifty tree decorations.

laters
Mooncat
mc
Sunday, December 7, 2003 05:21:39 AM
IP: 68.102.0.23

Ed:<I’m pleased to see someone commenting on the gargoyle side of things as well.> I'm sort of waiting on part 3 of Carbonek to comment on the London Clan.

Greg Bishansky:<Show your support for Roy! Show your support for decent animation!>Go for it! Support these people now.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Sunday, December 7, 2003 02:35:42 AM
IP: 216.234.99.74

Ed> <<I’m sorry to hear you didn’t get the job>>: Thanks, but it's mostly my bad for that being my only interview in a long while. I'm planning on stepping up my search next week.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, December 7, 2003 12:13:58 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Any one following this shake up at Disney? I know I am.

Show your support for Roy! Show your support for decent animation!

http://www.pruiksma.com/letterofsupport.html
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, December 6, 2003 11:43:42 PM
IP: 216.179.3.19

***SPOILERS***

Todd: I don’t think I ever proposed the Aslan thing. Even if you hadn’t suggested the different route on the way the sacrifice plays out, I think it would be mixing Biblical references a bit too much. I absolutely love your point on the Mordred/Mary parallelism, by the way (especially since we now have a reversal where the non-vengeful mother figure is now a vengeful mother figure, but the vengeful son is now a non-vengeful daughter). I love all these parallels.

And yes, several elements of this episode remind me of the episode last season where Jack goes on what he believes to be a suicide mission to detonate the nuclear bomb safely in the Mojave desert. In part, I always think of the music for that episode (which I believe won an Emmy). Both Jack and Mary are sacrificing themselves for the greater good, though Jack’s doing it partly because it’s an excuse to fulfil his death wish after his wife’s death, and Mary is doing it for truly altruistic reasons (she admits she isn’t feeling remotely suicidal). The goodbye scenes are kind of reversed: Jack trying to reconnect with her estranged daughter, Mary trying to reconnect with her estranged father. Merlin tries to persuade Mary that she’s got a lot to accomplish in the same way that George (Xander Berkeley from ‘Gargoyles’, coincidentally) does. The scenes both lead to both heroes, Jack and Arthur, abandoning their major motivations for the season – Arthur abandons his Grail quest, and Jack gives his quest to save people from the bomb to George (and in so doing also abandons his death wish). Without wanting to give too much away here, the discovery of the Grail will obviously have a bearing on Arthur’s direction and purpose in life, but you’ll have to wait until part three to find out more about that. ‘24’ has a similar thematic reversal at this moment though: Jack going from courting death to desperately clinging to life to prove that the evidence the US is basing its retaliatory strikes on is false. The visual imagery is similar too – just as the president and Kim realise that Jack must be dead by seeing the light of the nuclear blast on the horizon, Griff and the neo-knights watch the arrival of “Carbonek” assuming that it’s an indication of Mary’s death.

All this is total coincidence, of course. This episode was conceived and written months before that episode even aired. I think I used a Lincoln quote in “Flight from the Enchanter” that I had recently heard on that episode, though. :) I sometimes find it easy to mentally link the ‘24’ and ‘Pendragon’ universes since despite the ostensibly different styles and tones of the two shows, the core ideas are very similar. They both deal with fundamentally noble characters struggling to do the right thing in difficult circumstances (and sometimes with the weight of terrible deeds in their pasts), and struggling with how their personal and family issues impact their work (Morgana, Mordred, Lancelot).

***END SPOILERS***
Ed
Cambridge, England
Saturday, December 6, 2003 08:29:46 PM
IP: 131.111.8.101

ED - Thanks for your brief comments (I've got to admit, this is the first that I've heard about your considering for a moment Mary getting brought back to life a la Aslan). The Mordred parallel is all the more appropriate, it recently occurred to me, since Mary is both like a daughter and like a niece to Arthur (the latter through having Morgana for a stepmother) as a parallel to Mordred's being both Arthur's son and nephew (thanks to the incest), but in a far more innocent fashion.

I'm a bit amazed, though, that you didn't mention yet the way that it reminded you of a scene in "24", the way that you did when we were working on the story together - for those of you who are curious about that, I urge you to ask Ed; he can explain that bit a lot better than I can.

*ONE SEMI-SPOILER COMMENT*

By the way, Tanaburs is a "real" legendary figure; I found him in Ronan Coghlan's "The Encyclopedia of Arthurian Legends". It described him as a powerful wizard, second in magic only to Merlin, who had designed Carbonek so that it could only be found by those who were meant to find it.

* END OF SEMI-SPOILER *
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, December 6, 2003 07:03:10 PM
IP: 63.186.0.142

One more...

Greg> <>
Nah, "Laugh at the Silliness." Kicking interfers with the laughing.
Bud-Clare
Saturday, December 6, 2003 06:02:54 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

D'OH! I forgot...

Spacebabie> *hugs* I'm sorry about your dog.

(I'm suddenly reminded of the nice dog poem that Merlin Missy wrote. Clicky.)
Bud-Clare
Saturday, December 6, 2003 05:59:21 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

BUD-CLARE> Yeah, I missed you last week. I would have thought you'd enjoy a good game of Kick the Facist ;)
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, December 6, 2003 05:57:50 PM
IP: 216.179.3.19

I KNEW IT! I knew I'd miss a funny flame war while I was out of town. Dammit...
________________________
Thomas> <<and equally bad are promoters of family values who are on their third wife.>>
*snickers* Given the current discussion, I have to ask... are you refering to divorce, or to polygamy? ;)
______________________
Fire Storm> <<Should they be called Dominant and Submissive?>>
YES! Make the twits understand the full depth of their error. ;)
____________________________
kathy> <<Hey, where's Josh?>>
Haha, he missed the flame war too. I feel better.
Bud-Clare
Saturday, December 6, 2003 05:51:25 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Gside: I’m sorry to hear you didn’t get the job. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for your luck to change soon.

***CARBONEK PART TWO SPOILERS***

Leo: I liked your musical review! :)

Interesting reviews, Caboose and Vinnie.

It’s cool that people picked up on the Abraham parallel. I pitched this to Todd when we started developing the finale outline, and my original idea was actually subtly different. My idea was that Arthur would strike Mary and the sword would either pass through her without harming her, like it was from a ghost. (I think I briefly considered an Aslan-style resurrection but I don’t remember if I ever posted this). Todd didn’t want Arthur to go through with it, and in hindsight that was definitely the right thing to do. The trial was, after all, designed partly for Arthur to be faced with his greatest sin of old once again (the May Day massacre) so it would be inappropriate for there to be the same outcome.

Caboose: Well at one stage I did briefly suggest a further shock twist, that Marter was Avallach in disguise, but it was quickly (and correctly) shot down. ;) If I recall correctly, Avallach’s non-intervention in the Unseelie Wars are discussed in part 3, and I think in quite an interesting way (but I would say that! ;)).

Question: I’m pleased to see someone commenting on the gargoyle side of things as well. When was Michael knighted? I must have been asleep for that one. He’s the leader of the London clan. If you read the season over, we’ve had him grow increasingly concerned by Arthur’s activities drawing attention to the clan and now Arthur wants them to go to battle on his behalf. We wanted to capitalise on the growing tension between the two allies.

***END SPOILERS***
Ed
Saturday, December 6, 2003 11:06:36 AM
IP: 131.111.8.97

Damnit, GB. I'm the one who makes offensive liberal bashing. Now where did I put those naked pictures of Ann Coulter?

Gay marriage> Uh. I'm neuered, but I have some bad feelings when my brother George tried to hump me, before we were neutered.
ghost of Reverend Attila
Saturday, December 6, 2003 10:36:22 AM
IP: 218.145.25.80

Question> Well, I rank Taiwan which is officially the Republic of China higher than China, which si slowly evolving to capaitalism, but needs more freedoms and Mao and is disgusting cultural revolution have caused millions of murders as well as destroying a great part of China's soul. I find the ancient dynasties of China vastly preferrable to Mao and his successors. I respect an Emperor far better than a Chairman any day of the week.
Green Baron
Saturday, December 6, 2003 04:33:58 AM
IP: 220.73.165.139

Gunjack> Somehow I didn't figure you'd like the article. Or are you referring to one different from teh Tech Central Station one?
Green Baron
Saturday, December 6, 2003 04:30:01 AM
IP: 220.73.165.139

About to start my first day on the zombie shift. Wish me luck.

GB, that article is codswallop. more later.
V
Saturday, December 6, 2003 03:11:01 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Patrick:<No one said anything about "sloppy seconds." Sheesh. Doesn't anyone know sarcasm when they see it anymore?> No, I'd say no one knows what sarcasm is any more unless you are will to label your comment like so: sarcasm "comment here".

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Saturday, December 6, 2003 02:02:20 AM
IP: 216.234.99.45

Lynati> <<“anything, question mark”>>: Actually, I'd say a comma after "wait", a question mark and another space after crazy, and keep the period at the end.
<<REALLY need to start paying attention... if you honestly believe that... Bush’s motivation is really to terrorize the terrorists>>: If nothing else it's a good excuse to start geting rid of not nice regiemes. Starting with areas that benefit us the most, of course.
<<Anyone wanna guess what my sculptural focus was?>>: A giant !$@#

Fire Storm> <<Maybe I should rethink staying>>: If you could freely revisit, it just might be worth getting out.
<<Good god man, why? How?>>: I don't know, I just haven't been able to get rid of it, no matter how hard I try.
<>: I'd try to get the vendor to give them a freebie, for "being so good to the movement".
<<That would be nice. You know the rules...>>: I'd need to supply you with a complete automatically updated index of internet tentacle hentai?
<<No, no. Just the procedure>>: I'll just have to be a good little boy, then?
<<giant Woodstock-type orgies>>: Hey, my father never did that.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, December 6, 2003 12:16:40 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Carbonek Part 2

-Why didn't Michael initially join in to help? I thought Arthur had knighted hiim. Nice to see Brianna disagreeing with Griff on this issue. Perhaps another Goliath and Demona in the making?

-Griff's speech is really well done. Liked the the reaffirmation of the gargoyles creed in the london gargoyles that we see beginnings in MIA.

-So Duval has been alive for more than a thousand years and his strategies are still based on the ones that he learned from Arthur? Anyone else find that unbelievable especially since he is the Master of the Illuminati?

-Why is Avallach still the Fisher King? If he is the King Pelles analogue with his leg pierced by the spear at the hand of Balinos the Mad or Sir Balin shouldn't he have been healed by Sir Percival or Sir Galahad like in the original stories?

-Nice setup. Hopefully we'll get a kickass battle in part three. I definitely want to see what Morgana is planning to do with that dragon statue and I think next time perhaps you guys should keep the story cycles seperate so not to have a repeat of the whole sacrifice fiasco.

Green Baron

On what basis seeing how there is little difference in the rule of the communists and their predecessors except the Communists were killing more people.
Question
Friday, December 5, 2003 11:29:46 PM
IP: 216.170.210.200

Kaioto> I figured by now someone would have taken you to task for Euro-bashing, but I guess not :)

I know about the report being shelved from blogs I read. I dn't know if you are a blog raede lime me, but I'll giv you some good ones:

French blogs
http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/dacha/index.html
http://merdeinfrance.blogspot.com/

You can tell names like Merde in France and Dissident Frogman are not franchophiles :)

Liberal blogs:
www.michaeltotten.com
www.rogerlsimon.com
http://warliberal.com/mt/blog/

Sure we'd disagree with them a fair amount of time, but they still have great thinsg to say, and War Liberal madup all the Captain Euro posts.

Humor
www.scrappleface.com
www.imao.us

IMAO is an excellent staire site and he has the Rusmfeld Strangler character I mentioned to Dezi :)

Canadian bloggers:
www.damianpenny.com

Damian Penny lives in the same town as my wonderful Karen, though they didn't know each other before I arrived. He mentioned teh EU shelving the anti-semitism eport and has discussed the release of Khadr from Gitmo.

He also mentions Sheiskopf Gerhard Schoeder's support fo China against Taiwan. I find Taiwan vastly preferable to China and to me, Taiwan is the Republic of China, the true China instead of the extortionist people's state.

Anything using people's as an adjective arouses instant suspicion and distrust in me.

Also, he mentions this sick alliance eing formed by opponents of gay marriage: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1203/marriage_terrorists.php3

Sadly Ray Flynn is part of this alliance. When fundamentalists team up with Hamas, I'll be an even bigger advocate of same sex marriage (which Taiwan has legalized, while I imagine China and Cuba still persecute homosexuals).

Other good blogs are:

www.marksteyn.com
www.instapundit.com
www.andrewsullivan.com
www.thebitchgirls.us
www.alphecca.com

Alphecca is a gay gun nut from Vermont with three cats and has some interesting stuff and some good humor, too.

One of the Bitch girls is in Boston and works for a gun company. She also loves to bash John "btw, I served in Vietnam" Kerry :)

Hopefully that will give you some good reading material.

Lynati> Well in the name of insensitive Liberal bashing, I'l bring up this recent funny from www.imao.us Frank J's satire site:

Know Thy Enemy: Liberals
Since terrorists are already covered, by popular demand I sent my crack research team to find out what they can about liberals.

FUN FACTS ABOUT LIBERALS

* Liberals hate people who are not open minded. Open minded is defined as thinking just like they think (otherwise you're evil).

* The major diet of the liberal is tofu and granola. This makes them weak and easy to pick up and throw.

* Liberals love to spend other people's money. If you see a liberal, it's okay to take his money because it probably wasn't his anyway.

* Liberals have an irrational fear of firearms. If you want to scare a liberal, point a gun at him.

* The whine of the North American liberal can often be mistaken for the sound of a screech owl. The main difference is that the liberal's whine will also have a nauseating effect.

* Liberals love socialism and want to socialize all businesses. If you see a liberal coming towards your business, throw a stick at him before he can socialize it.

* Liberals tend to congregate on college campuses as it is a safe haven for their idiotic ideas, protecting them from scrutiny. Thus, avoid college at all costs.

* Liberals are invulnerable to reason and logic. They are vulnerable to firearms, knives, and the bitch slap.

* Liberals hate America and love more oppressed people... like evil dictators.

* Much like the duck, it's illegal to shoot a liberal who is floating in a lake.

* Liberals will try to entice you with their twisted logic. If that doesn't work, they'll bite you.

* Hanging a picture of Ronald Reagan over your door will keep liberals from entering.

* Liberals come in two main varieties: intellectual and mental patient. You can only distinguish between the two by noting whether their jacket has sleeves.

* If you see a fuel-efficient car, it's probably being driven by a liberal. Run it off the road with your SUV.

* Liberals are always trying to save the environment because they are apparently dependent on it. If you want to kill all liberals, destroy the environment.

* Even if you satisfy liberals’ demands, they'll come up with new thing to complain about that you could never even imagine; they’re just that creative. That creativity is put towards much better use as forced labor in a coal mine.

* Liberals are always whining about tolerance, but, when I punch them for that, they get moody. Hey, be tolerant!

* You can tell if someone is a liberal by extracting some blood and seeing if it reacts violently to fire.

* Sorry, that previous item is how you find out if someone is the Thing. It's a good thing to check for that too, though.

* Some liberals still think Communism is good. I guess we should threaten them with nuclear missiles just like we did the Soviets.

* In a fight between Aquaman and liberals, liberals would have Aquaman fined for disturbing the habitat of endangered fish. He would then sulk about it to the great annoyance of the Aquawife.

* Liberals like to sympathize with terrorists. Keep them away from Gitmo, or there will be nothing but sympathizing.

* I've heard vicious rumors that liberals also like the French, but that might just be slander against liberals.

If you are offended by this, well I'll get this violin and play a sad song for you :)

Mecord> Well, the book was set in 1881 where Taylor tried to take over Utah and Utah wound up under martial law until the 1930s.

Lynati> <<So, you’re basically saying that people in love shouldn’t be allowed to get together as long as there is someone out there who is unattached, no matter how hideous or unlikable that person may be?>> This is why I don't support equality of outcome, or the welfare state in psychotic social justice-enhanced forms.

Firestorm> Maybe Flynt does, but to be honest I just despise the business savvy subhuman and I'd gldly remove his eyeballs with a rusty spoon, before slashing his belly like Vito Corleone did in Godftaher II.

At least Hugh Heffner is not some self-righteous born-again pundit

I was just pointing out that people make gaffes, and Arnold mainly won because Gray Davis is just that lousy, and I bet most Californians would agree. Plus Terminator 3 may have helped :)

<<Nearly non-existent is more like it.>> In Dearborne, probably, but it can be very good in some areas. I do wish we had a lot more of it.

Patrick> <<Sorry, I didn't realize "no" was the wrong answer on the polygamy poll. I'll refrain from participating in any more of these polls from now on, lest I offend anyone else with an old-fashioned, conservative opinion. :P>> I thought it was funny.

New poll question: Should Neverland Ranchbe seized by Ahnold and converted into a daycare center?

Q: How do you know when it's bedtime at Neverland Ranch?
A: When the big hand touches the little hand.

Graymonk> At times I have issues with my faith, but so do we all. This article is the type to make me glad I am one, as opposed to those other types of Christians out there.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/120403A.html

And Tech Central Station is just a superb internet wekly, too.
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Camp Humphreys, Korea
Friday, December 5, 2003 10:20:01 PM
IP: 218.145.25.115

:: blinks ::

No one said anything about "sloppy seconds." Sheesh. Doesn't anyone know sarcasm when they see it anymore?

Sorry, I didn't realize "no" was the wrong answer on the polygamy poll. I'll refrain from participating in any more of these polls from now on, lest I offend anyone else with an old-fashioned, conservative opinion. :P
Patrick
Friday, December 5, 2003 07:24:35 PM
IP: 65.43.155.14

Gside: <Philosophocially, sure. Practically, I wouldn't say so>
I agree. I mean, 99% of the population would go on as normal, and maybe 1% would leave...
But that 1% would be some of the smartest too... Hmm...
Maybe I should rethink staying.
<... and public transit's not good.>
Nearly non-existent is more like it.

Good god man, why? How?
<Can you run them through a pornificator and beam them into Ian McConville's head?>
With pleasure! Although, I think that the con was a good dose of Karmanic revenge!
If I was there, I would encourage people to buy the Digimon porn for them
<But are you going to split it with me if you win?>
That would be nice. You know the rules...
<If we're taking Clockwork as our example, it will>
No, no. Just the procedure.
<And boy, would it have been a good buy at the beginning of the year.>
No kidding! IF I would have known about it, I probably would have purchased some, simply because of the name.

DPH: <The only reason for caring is if living in the Matrix gives us extra abilities.>
Matrix: Food, water, existence
Reality: Re-processed protein mush, giant Woodstock-type orgies
<The only difference is hypothetically it would be slightly easier to kill you in the 'prison'>
Only slightly. But there is overpopulation problems in Zion.

Green Baron: <Look at the competition. At least he finished grade school, unlike Larry Flynt>
Ah, I gotta love America!
At least Flynt knows how to run a multinational corporation

Lynati: <sorry about that Todd, it was Patrick who made that comment.>
Yeah... I just can't see Todd making a comment about "sloppy seconds" like that
Fire Storm
Friday, December 5, 2003 07:05:41 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

SNOW DAY! I should totally start a de-icing service so that I can actually have money for gifts this holiday ;)

Take care everyone ;)
Niamhgold
Friday, December 5, 2003 09:45:20 AM
IP: 209.143.83.31

*bangs head on keyboard*

sorry about that Todd, it was Patrick who made that comment.

I was writing the responses to both here and the TGS list at the same time and it was really late, I'm sorry, that is all I can blame it on. x.x

ahh, to feel stupid first thing in the morning...such a good start to the day.
Lynati
Friday, December 5, 2003 07:58:21 AM
IP: 64.216.143.113

LYNATI - [Todd: [Polygamy Poll > I vote "No." Nobody gets seconds until everyone's had firsts.]
…eeeuw…
So, you’re basically saying that people in love shouldn’t be allowed to get together as long as there is someone out there who is unattached, no matter how hideous or unlikable that person may be? ]

Um, I didn't write that. You must have gotten me mixed up with somebody else's post.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, December 5, 2003 07:32:50 AM
IP: 63.186.0.69

Vinnie: In response, I give you the lyrics to leadbelly's 'Black Betty':

"ohh, Black Betty; bam-alam,
whoa, Black Betty; bam-alam,
she really gets me high, bam-alam
you know that's no lie, bam-alam
she's so rocksteady, bam-alam
She's always ready, bam-alam
Woah, Black Betty; bam-alam
woah, Black Betty..."

*gets up on the computer desk and starts to do somethign that vaguely lookslike the "Tequila" dance while singing*
Lynati
timecheck, please?
Friday, December 5, 2003 04:42:31 AM
IP: 64.216.143.113

Lynati:<[In the end, I bet you still don't get it.> I get that you don't know what you are talking about half the time.] ..thus proving her right. Obviously one of you doesn’t know what is going on, but *I* get what she is saying, and *other people* have made comments that show *they* get what she is saying. So it clearly isn’t Dezi that is the ignorant one.> Well someone has to play the bad guy, don't they. If no one does then there really is no point to a poll with so few negative points of view.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Friday, December 5, 2003 03:45:23 AM
IP: 216.234.99.85

Vinnie: [In the end, I bet you still don't get it.> I get that you don't know what you are talking about half the time.] ..thus proving her right. Obviously one of you doesn’t know what is going on, but *I* get what she is saying, and *other people* have made comments that show *they* get what she is saying. So it clearly isn’t Dezi that is the ignorant one.
[<Look out for the black 'copters, my friend.> What are you crazy I never ever mentioned Black anything.] “anything, question mark”. Yeesh, Mara was really *right* about the ruler-wielding nuns. Anyway, Dezi never said that *YOU* mentioned the black helicopters. You really need to pay more attention to what is actually being written.
[The War On Terror was started on 9/11 and it's purpose to hunt down Terrorists, or didn't you know that.]
…
and REALLY need to start paying attention to what is actually going on in the world, as well, if you honestly believe that 9/11 was the start of the current fracas, and that Bush’s motivation is really to terrorize the terrorists, thus ending terror on the planet.
[You need some way to get your jollies and making fun of conservative beliefs for not believing as you believing as you believe is just your way. ] oh, I wasn’t attacking or making fun of your *beliefs*; I was making fun of *you* .
And now that the room is all nice and toasty, I’ll stop.

Dezi: [So if I must be "attacking" anything, it would be that paranoia, just 'cause its fun. :) ] ahh. See, she gets it! And I for one have really been enjoying your sarcasm. ; )

Aaron: [Sounds good to me. Sort of missing the point otherwise, I think.]
That reminds me, did you know that Spazzkitty is a Gamer? *blinks innocently*

Todd: [Polygamy Poll > I vote "No." Nobody gets seconds until everyone's had firsts.]
…eeeuw…
So, you’re basically saying that people in love shouldn’t be allowed to get together as long as there is someone out there who is unattached, no matter how hideous or unlikable that person may be?

Final Crits went well. Anyone wanna guess what my sculptural focus was? ; )

Lynati
Friday, December 5, 2003 01:33:27 AM
IP: 64.216.143.113

Well, I was finally told that I didn't get that job at the local database place. I really need to get seriously looking.
Otherwise, no replies to make here.

NA zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, December 4, 2003 11:29:26 PM
IP: 68.37.159.199

*Still More 'Carbonek' Spoilers*

Ah. The old comic book loophole of 'if the reader didn't see the character die, then s/he's not officially dead.' How cheap.

Don't get me wrong, I love TGS, but come on, you could have done something else. An 'Avallach is alive but too weak to rule' storyline would still have sparked the same conflict between Oberon and Madoc for the throne. And the identity of the Fisher King would have remained a secret until this part of Carbonek, as would how Avallach came to be the guardian of the Holy Grail.
Caboose - [caboose@wctc.net]
Kenosha, Wisconsin, USA
Thursday, December 4, 2003 08:46:10 PM
IP: 198.150.95.126

* CARBONEK SPOILERS *

Yes, I thought that the revelation of the Fisher King's identity at the end of Part Two should get some response. All that I'll say about it for now is that, if you go back and look at the scenes about his "death" in "The Rising", at the start of Season Two, you'll notice that we didn't show Avallach dying "on-screen". We had Danu enter his chamber alone and announce his death when she emerged - she being the only witness to it. We did it that way on purpose.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, December 4, 2003 07:17:02 PM
IP: 63.186.0.161

Um... oops. I did not mean to do that, it was an accident I am not CR admin. I didn't even think non admin could post with that.

sorry

Mecord
Thursday, December 4, 2003 04:48:44 PM
IP: 129.123.104.6

GB>> <the polygamists are not recognized Mormons but various nondenominational sects> True, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, will not accept polygamists as members, and any members who practice it are excommunicated.

 Actually, I just checked, Taylor died in the 1880's, It was Willford Woodruff.

FS>> <Thank you> No prob.
Mecord
Thursday, December 4, 2003 04:47:06 PM
IP: 129.123.104.6

*SPOILERS*

Vinne--For a while there I thought the sacrifice would be more like the biblical tale of Abraham when he was told to sacrifice his son by God--

So I'm not the only one who thought that, huh? I kind of thought Tannaburs' explanation of that test was pretty stupid. "Just to make sure you're a man of principles..." Oh please. Arthur turned down the 'quick fix' of the Nazi research team in Antarctica, slew the White Knight character in that episode about the realm of the terminally depressed...the list goes on and on.

Now if it had been a test of both Arthur and Mary to see just how far they were willing to go to save Merlin, with Tannaburs stopping Arthur as he's about to strike, that would have been a bit better, IMHO.

The Avallach twist is pretty interesting. Though that does leave me wondering how he survived if all the Fae 10,000 some years ago were certain he was dead. <Shrugs> Oh well, it's bound to be explained.

I'm really looking forward to when all the poop hits the fan and the big free-for-all between Morgana, the Illuminati, Macbeth, and the London Clan starts up. That should be really amusing. :)
Caboose - [caboose@wctc.net]
Kenosha, Wisconsin, Take a guess.
Thursday, December 4, 2003 03:46:28 PM
IP: 198.150.95.126

Green Baron >>

<<Well, the Catholic Church does have an ugly legacy of anti-semitism, and there are still elements of it today, so that is one change that is ong overdue. >>

True enough, though I think people gloss over the fact that when you get right down to it EUROPE has an ugly legacy of anti-Semetism. In this "civilized" era of atheistic, socialist government, post Cold War Europe is experiencing a giant spike in Anti-Semetism, and a lot of governments aren't fighting it, they are milking it along side anti-Americanism for some cheap pseudo-Nationalistic political hay.

In fact, the European Union decided not to publish its own commission's report on Anti-Semetism in the Union because it makes them look bad. Sometimes the Franco-German wing of the EU looks like nothing more than a creapy shadow of the Vichy-Axis alliance that held most of mainland Europe during the height of WWII. One big Pseudo-nationalist, far-wing (socialist / facist) alliance fueling its political machine with hate speech, scapegoats, and jealousy.

That's probably one of the reasons that Eastern Europe seems to clash so much with the Franco-German faction - the current generation of the former Soviet Bloc remembers what it was like to live under Stalinists - to be persecuted and abused. The current generation of Franco-German Europe is mostly apathetic (just like America), with its most vocal and influential minority obsessed with gaining some sort of "Superpower" status by any means possible now that the Soviet Union is no longer a threat. Consequently, a blind eye is being turned to the defiling of Jewish graves, burning of their houses of worship, and the general pervasiveness of hate propaganda.

European Socialists and Facists marching hand-in-hand to the drums of political power fueled by hatred, ignorance, and misdirected anger over economic failures while sending the Jews up the river ...

If I were the living embodiment of Poland right now, I'd be having dreadful flashbacks to the 1930's.

The fundamental difference is that due to nuclear weapons, we'll never see such a military war again. Instead it could all be fought with economic policy, political subversion, and subsidized terrorism. That's a pretty scary thought, honestly.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Thursday, December 4, 2003 11:24:58 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Greetings and a new day begins or ends for some :)

Graymonk> <<That reminds me, I used to have the web adress for a really interesting defense of Pius written by a Jewish Rabbi. IIRC His basic thesis was that Pius's connection to the Nazis has been blown out of proportion by Catholics trying to use the Holocast as an excuse to effect changes in the church and that he found that practice reprehnsible, I'll see if I can turn it up for you, I think you'd find it of interest.>> Well, the Catholic Church does have an ugly legacy of anti-semitism, and there are still elements of it today, so that is one change that is ong overdue.

I find the change factor a bit funny, since Pius XII also started up Vatican II, though John XXIII get all the credit. I do admit I want that site, since I have heard so much to conflict about that situation from Pius's silence to him being a collaborator to him finding a diplomatic solution causing him to not appear to be proactive, and the third one makes the most sense, since he was a diplomat by training and an aristocrat by birth. He was no St. Peter or Patton.

Yggdrasil> Good luck over there, and I hope you make it out ok. These days, it's quite dangerous, even if you are on a scientific mission and in a neutral capacity.

Are you from Charlottetown?

Mecord> If I recall, the polygamists are not recognized Mormons but various nondenominational sects. Also some of the really crazy Anabaptist sects in the 16th century had polygamy like one guy who claimed to be the new King David.

Needless to say Catholics and Protestants united to persecute them.

Lain> America liberals can be scary and some are as looney as hardcore American conservatives...Dennis Kucinich's proposed House Resolution about mind control devices for instance, and of course Lyndon LaRouche who sees the Pope and the Queen of England involved in the world's largets drug operation...I'll assume he's not a practicing Catholic even with a name like LaRouche :)

Of course the right has Pat Buchanan, David Duke, and Michael Rivero, as well as Al Gore supporter Fred Phelps (he supported Gore's 88 presidential run), but I'm sure Canada has it's share of looney tunes.

Well, Ontario's new structure has limited the NDP's right of question piveleges, and if the Provinical Liberals are't sufficiently Blue, the Tories may recoup. Of course, Newfoundland's Tory Government is pretty Red, but that's what got them victory.

BTW, what exactly is a Grit? Is that an old nicknam for Liberals?

<<what does canadian thanksgiving have to do with columbus?>> Coincidence, then. Of course Columbus is nothing more than a day off and the Jesuits have made it Founder's Day which is more politically correct.

<<some newfie guy gave thanks around there for having made it over the pond safely >> Well, I have reasons to be greatful for making it to Newfoundland, too :)

Mecord> I think Taylor was head of the Mormon Church by 1890.

Kathy> Thanks. I can't wait to get her to a Gathering, though she is terribly shy and her parents are protective, because of her handicap, but most Gatherings are ADA compliant, I imagine.

Dezi> Hmmm. The Rumsfeld Strangler may get you :) BTW, Robo Patton is back :)

Vinnie> I didn't know Monopoly-based games were subject to that law as I've seen Monopoly knockoffs, but They may have been owned by Hasbro.

I would love to order it for laughs.

Leo> Arnold may have been making a joke or he just slipped up, like Al Gore calling Michael Jordan Michael Jackson, or Dean accidentally calling Russia the Soviet Union, or Jimmy Carter talking about a final slution in the Middle East. Sadly, Sandra Day O'Connor's talk about using International Law for Supreme Court decisions was not a slip up.

Fire Storm> <<And he was STILL elected to be governor of California?>> Look at the competition. At least he finished grade school, unlike Larry Flynt.

Ed> I never knew Todd was religious, though he may be an avatar of some sort :)

Silverbolt> You really want to get rid fo Esiner. Find some way of getting the old Uncle Remus movie re-released and the reaction will bury him :)

Leo> Korean servers are slow...I'd think so, but I use Government equipment :)

That's all for now. Toodles
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Camp Humphreys , Korea
Thursday, December 4, 2003 10:30:14 AM
IP: 218.145.25.16

lain:<<check out disneys newest feature film!>> One day perhaps Disney will come to it's senses, but I don't see that happening for a long time. As for Gargoyles coming back.... again I feel that with the current administration of Disney it will most likely follow the Battlestar Galactica model. A pity really, but I still hope we don't have to wait a quarter century. After all hope is all we have, other then fanfiction!

Caboose:<doesn't the word 'holy' usually connotate some sort of religious significance/origin?> Well techinically some of the fans probably love the show enough to worship it.:) But the word Holy doesn't mean that something is from God, only that it is sacred in my opinion.

SPOILER:

For a while there I thought the sacrifice would be more like the biblical tale of Abraham when he was told to sacrifice his son by God, but it was still an interesting way to resolve it. I am still disappointed that TimeDancer cheapened that scene though and I was a little surprised that no one in the story came up with the idea that the sacrifice was in fact a test of Arthur's principles, oh well spilt milk.
So Avallach survived his injuries. Very interesting I wonder if Oberon knows of this? Although considering Avallach's current condition it would not surprise me that he would not want anyone to know that he still lived.
MacBeth sure has his hands full with Morgana, I guess it will just be one of those days for him. It's a good thing that he is immortal and no stranger to magic himself.
As for Nigel Sefton, it sounds to me like he has a long hard road ahead of him in his battle with the denial of weirdness around him.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Thursday, December 4, 2003 05:26:24 AM
IP: 216.234.99.254

What disney film?????
Storyseeker
Thursday, December 4, 2003 03:41:55 AM
IP: 217.150.117.210

Caboose> <<doesn't the word 'holy' usually connotate some sort of religious significance/origin?>>: Religious people could have easily misconstrued its origins.

Fire Storm> <<There is a genetic engineering company named "Genentech Inc" with a NYSE symbol of DNA>>: And boy, would it have been a good buy at the beginning of the year.

Leo> <<Musical comment>>: I'm dissappointed. It took me around 20 seconds to figure out it was Indy.

Lain> <<now, THIS on the other hand>>: Or the Triplets of Belleville if you want a stranger, more European twist.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, December 4, 2003 12:04:09 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

... thats also because it was linked from penny-arcade. they probably never knew that much site traffic actually COULD exist...
lain
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 11:49:20 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

lain:<<now, THIS on the other hand....>

They must have slooooow servers in Korea. :p

Well, the graphic with the flying machine and the clouds looked promissing, but that's all the patience I had to wait for. :)
Leo
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 10:40:24 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

now, THIS on the other hand....
lain - [<<-- much cooler]
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 09:27:44 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

At least it has an interesting voice cast and Carl Johnson is doing the music. But yeesh.
kathy
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 06:43:28 PM
IP: 66.82.195.100

**Sorry for the added post**

And you know they're getting hard up when they resort to ripping off their own features, and then admit to the fact in the trailer. :p
Leo
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 06:10:23 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

lain:<<check out disneys newest feature film!>>

And it's one of those damn animated musicals!!!! So they can market a CD and capitalize on the name recognition of the singers. and maybe even *gasp* get one of the songs nominated for an Oscar!

Oh the humanity!!!

Leo
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 06:06:22 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

lain> @_@'

No... No...

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*jumps out of the window still screaming and hits the floor with a splat*

Ok! They make a feature length movie of that... that THING! And yet they NEVER made a movie of Gargoyles!

That's it! Eisner's out, NOW!
silverbolt
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 05:58:04 PM
IP: 81.131.158.126

Caboose: If I call this room the Holy Comment Room, does that mean it's from God? Sure, the characters mostly believe it's got a religious significance. But we've never stated that specifically. We've only stated that the characters believe it to be so. But the characters are mostly Christians or otherwise religious. Of course they believe it to be so. That doesn't make it objective fact. I don't believe the divinity of the Grail is objective fact in the TGS universe. But it was deliberately written so that you could make either case if you wanted to.
Ed
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 04:58:51 PM
IP: 131.111.8.96

my god people, its over.

check out disneys newest feature film!
lain - [<<-- read and weep]
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 04:46:18 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

The voting is now open for MGC <http://mgc.gargoyles-fans.org/>
and AMGC <http://amgc.gargoyles-fans.org/> and in a TGS-related note, a Dark Ages character is featured in the AMGC contest.

*cackles madly*
Spike
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 03:28:37 PM
IP: 65.71.252.160

*****CARBONEK Pt2 SPOILERS/COMMENTS*****

Musical comment:

Click my name to listen. :p
Leo - [<- Musical Comment]
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 03:22:57 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

I was watching CNN FN a few days ago and I saw this:

There is a genetic engineering company named "Genentech Inc" with a NYSE symbol of DNA.

Link is the companys current NYSE status
Fire Storm
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 02:53:09 PM
IP: 68.73.59.7

Uh, Ed...

Even if you are an atheist, doesn't the word 'holy' usually connotate some sort of religious significance/origin? :)

But honestly, I was sort of hoping Arthur and the gang would have to cross the Gorge of Eternal Peril before they could find Carbonek Castle. That might have slightly changed Pendragon's opinion of 'the movie with the coconuts'. :)

Anyway, enough of my mindless rambling.
Caboose - [caboose@wctc.net]
Kenosha, Wisconsin, USA!
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 12:43:46 PM
IP: 198.150.95.126

Reality or Illusion is largely a matter of perception from moment to moment.

Todd > I lost your email addy and I'm not sure the one I half remember is correct. Drop me a line, please? kapogge at yahoo.com
kathy
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 12:07:09 PM
IP: 66.82.195.100

***SORT OF CARBONEK SPOILERS***

Firestorm: As far as we're concerned, the Grail is whatever you think it is. Todd assumes it comes from God because he's religious. I'm an atheist, I assume it doesn't and it's simply an extremely enigmatic object of unknown origins. But neither view will be contradicted. And remember "Return to Avalon". The magic of the Third Race can't cure Merlin. Beyond that, I think (and hope) you'll find more answers to your satisfaction in part 3.

***END***
Ed
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 03:56:01 AM
IP: 131.111.8.98

Fire Storm - <Well, technically, YOU (and your hologram) could be a program and we wouldn't know it!> The best artificial programs are the ones that believe they aren't programs. <For me, if it was a choice between living in the "real world," complete with the possibility of the squids killing you, or living in the "prison," where there is steak, I'll take the Matrix.> The only difference is hypothetically it would be slightly easier to kill you in the 'prison'. The only reason for caring is if living in the Matrix gives us extra abilities.

Storyseeker - <And if Avallach is dead and gone> Ohh, you thought he was a casulty of the fey-dragon war? Well, do some stories make better sense in hindsight?
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 01:59:43 AM
IP: 204.94.193.72

We had a nice little snow here. But I did not have a good reed during the concert, kept squeaking on the high notes unless I played from thecorner of my mouth.

DPH> <<Original Artwork by Foxx Laverinth>>: And isn't it scaled just the right size and in just the right spot?

Fire Storm> <<That's gonna be a real pain. 1 car, three people, 6 jobs>>: ... and public transit's not good.
<<But it was such a good dream>>: I still have some pride, though.
<<All I am picking up is old Digimon reruns>>: Can you run them through a pornificator and beam them into Ian McConville's head?
<<Nope! WOO-HOO>>: But are you going to split it with me if you win?
<<Or, you know, I could actually learn to draw>>: That's too hard.
<<What makes you think it will be voluntary?>>: If we're taking Clockwork as our example, it will be.
<>: Eh.

Jaden> <<Hey, who took the crazy glue?>>: Rygel. He thought it was the next version of magic shell (not just for ice cream any more).

Mecord> <<While I'm not sure of the statistics on the matter, generaly there are more women than men>>: I seem ro remember something like 49 vs. 51 percents.

Fire Storm> <>: Philosophocially, sure. Practically, I wouldn't say so.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 12:38:12 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

Hey, Greg B? I need ta talk to you tonight, soon as you get home. It's kinda important. In fact, we're calling you...
Gunjack "YEEEEEEHAaaawwww!!!" Valentine
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 11:30:24 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

DPH: <Technically, we could all be trapped in a giant holodeck and some of you could be artificial programs in place and I wouldn't know it.>
Well, technically, YOU (and your hologram) could be a program and we wouldn't know it!
For me, if it was a choice between living in the "real world," complete with the possibility of the squids killing you, or living in the "prison," where there is steak, I'll take the Matrix.
I sometimes wonder if we really are in a Matrix, and if we are, should we care?

Lain: <how long was he locked in that tower of air??>
You would think that he would want some after being trapped in the tower! I mean, if I was locked up for a while, the first thing I would want is a bit o' carnal fun!

Mecord: <But to sum-up>
Which is good for me. I know that it is difficult to sum up a religion, but I just wanted a basic understanding of the "why" of polygamy in the Mormon religion.
Thank you.

Dezi: <check out the quote by Ahrnie at the end of the article>
...
And he was STILL elected to be governor of California?

***TGS STUFF!***

Had to rush last night because I realized about 5 minutes before the end of my shift that I forgot to do a few things. Still got them done.

You know... I really don't know if I am in favor of him being the Fisher King. I mean, if he is, then there is the possibility that the Grail MIGHT be of Fae origin. Unlikely, yeah, but still possible.

***END TGS STUFF!***
Fire Storm
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 08:09:26 PM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Dezi:<<check out the quote by Ahrnie at the end of the article>>

He could be making a play on words with the "outdated" meaning of "gay". Aww, how cute. :p
Leo
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 05:30:55 PM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Dezi: <Alright, alright. Check out this link (click my name).> You expected anything different we are dealing with Politicians here.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 04:30:19 PM
IP: 216.234.99.247

Green Baron: <Political Correctness strikes again. Click on my name for a laugh, and a fun game potential :)> Well that was an interesting artical, being protested by the NAACP it's a real show of redundancy considering this guy is already violating intellectual property rights of Hasboro.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 04:22:47 PM
IP: 216.234.99.247

Alright, alright. Check out this link (click my name).
And as for Firestorm's happy little poll, check out the quote by Ahrnie at the end of the article.

You know?
Dezi - [<- ah the Foot in Mouth prize!]
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 03:41:39 PM
IP: 68.58.158.101

I know I said I wasn't going to get into a debate, but since it was nicely asked.

Fire Storm>> <since that appears to be your religious background> it is my background, foreground, and center stage.

<how did polygamy start in the Mormon religion?> stated simply, it started as a revelation from the Prophet Joseph Smith. However, to understand polygamy and why it was restated I'm going to have to get into some deep doctrine which I cannot fully explain here. Though I'm willing to answer e-mails on the subject. But to sum-up, Joseph was supposed to restore everything that had ever been in the Lord's chuch in the past, (save blood sacrifices, that has to wait for the son's of Levi). Polygamy was one of them (David and Solomon both practiced it, though both also broke the principles of it). Also, we believe that marraige is essential to what we call "Eternal Progression." While I'm not sure of the statistics on the matter, generaly there are more women than men. So if God needs people to be married, and wants to afford everyone the same opportunity, it's logical to pair more women per man. Now this does not necessitate sex with all the women. And by marraige I should mention that I mean a marraige in one of our Temples. Within this also lies the reason why the church is against Gay marraiges.

<"Polygamy was renounced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1890 as part of a deal to grant Utah statehood"> This is true. like I said above, Joseph had to restore everything, but not everything had to stay. In the Bible, and even in the Book of Mormon, Polygamy was removed because of people abusing it. The requirement of the U.S.A. for the church to denounce the practice also conflicted directly with another church doctrine that says we are to follow the laws of the land. So by making Polygamy illeagle it created a conflict. Our Prophet at the time (Brigham Young I think) then removed the practice of Polygamy thereby removing the conflict.

<what about the NON-Mormon people> From my religious standpoint, there's not much point to it. Same goes for the Gay community. But if they want to get it legalized for taxes of whatever, I think that's fine.

Todd> <<If they make polygamy legal, it should be with the provision that you have to live with all your wives at once>> Originally every wife was to have their own home, in the church polygamy was not a license for an orgy, they did not all sleep together. Like I said before, the reasons are docterinal not sexual. For example, Joseph Smith was "married" to a lot of women, but only slept with and had kids by his first wife Emma.

Well, thats our church history lesson for today, hope no one's offended and like I say, if there's further questions I'll be happy to answer email.
Mecord - [Mecordlein@lycos.com]
Utah
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 03:13:07 PM
IP: 129.123.104.6

Probably a little late, but to answer FS's question, sure, I think people who want to be married should be allowed to, period, full stop.

As for legalizing polygamy, why not? Let's go for broke.

Todd> <<If they make polygamy legal, it should be with the provision that you have to live with all your wives at once>> Sounds good to me. Sort of missing the point otherwise, I think.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 10:43:21 AM
IP: 66.139.49.253

Green Baron > Awwwww, what a nice photo. Karen looks like a sweetie. Congrats!
kathy
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 08:35:59 AM
IP: 66.82.195.100

Political Correctness strikes again. Click on my name for a laugh, and a fun game potential :)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 08:06:03 AM
IP: 220.73.165.75

[TGS SPOILERS FOR CARBONEK 2]

Nice new instalment, it would have been better if I hadn't known that Merlin was going to live anyway, but it was alright.

But it really was a great surprise that Avallach was there, considering he's been dead for over 11000 years. I guess this brings up the old question.. What actually happens when a Fey dies???? And if Avallach is dead and gone, then what about Madoc and the other Fey who died, Arthur's and Morgana's mother for example??? Could they possible make a comeback someday?

The Wyrd Sisters said that Madoc could never return to Avalon, but... There is a loophole to everything! They said that Madoc Morfryn could never return, but, as Avallach said... He is no longer Avallach, but The Fisher King (odd name). Madoc could take on a new name and title, hence no longer being Madoc, but someone else and able to return to Avalon?

Will Danu ever make an appearance again? I wonder if she knows what has become of her supposedly late husband and what Oberon would say if he knew?! It would make a great fic later on when Oberon found out that his dear old dad was still alive.

If there was any doubt that hatred and vengeance has completely taken over Morgana's life then there isn't now. She loves Mary, but she was willing to prevent her from helping Merlin by ANY means necessary, even death. She does still have a heart, of that I am sure of, but its been deeply buried.

Well, Nigel finally worked up the gut to talk to Morgana about her past and such. Pity he left it until AFTER the wedding! Oh well, good thing marriage isn't as sacred as it used to be. Thank God for divorce, but I hope married life will settle her down a bit. Who knows, maybe she and Nigel will end up with a kid? That'll be fun to read Mary's reaction to that, it'll probably make Mary even more ballistic!

Uh oh, someone's in trouble! Morgana may not be able to kill Macbeth, but she can still do a lot of damage, such as turning him into stone, transforming him into a frog... etc?!

Good fic!
Storyseeker - [Storyseeker.1@btopenworld.com]
Birmingham, UK
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 04:50:04 AM
IP: 217.150.117.210

jaden>> <<never?>> how long was he locked in that tower of air?? o.O
lain
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 02:33:01 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Fire Storm <they can put him back together> Now this piece goes...where? Hey, who took the crazy glue?

Allowing same sex marriages- I was one of those people who were taught by crazy people that everyone is equal and I still believe that.
People should be allowed to marry who ever they want and if some people have a problem with it, well they don't have to come to the wedding. If two people we will probably never meet want to get married what right do we have to say no? .

Merlin at virgin- You mean that he never? Ever!? In 1500 years? That alone would prove that he isn't all human. Never? ;P

The last Disney resigned...Sign of the Apocolipse? I think maybe.

Later.

Never?
Jaden - [jaden1444@aol.com]
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 01:17:12 AM
IP: 172.195.93.111

***TGS SPOILERS!***

Todd: Leave it to you to give a quote from Le Morte d’Arthur.

Ok, the ending was a surprise (not what Arthur didn't do).
He lives? HE is the Fisher King?

***END SPOILERS!***
Fire Storm
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 12:54:41 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

Ok, I've seen both the Matrix [I had the hardest time trying to locate it] and the Matrix Reloaded. Ok, I'm a little concerned. Technically, we could all be trapped in a giant holodeck and some of you could be artificial programs in place and I wouldn't know it.

a small tangent - [But damn it, that makes the perfect way to test anybody who is potentially going to be assigned to protect time or pilot any vehicle which can travel through time.]

X Men 2 was definitely a follow-up to the original movie. Things that didn't seem as important in the 1st one become revelant in the 2nd one.

*X-Men Spoilers*
Ok, I'm guessing Prof Charles Xavier let Mystique continue posing as "Senator Kelly" because the fallout from such a revelation . . wouldn't be too nice for the way society treats mutants. My question is how long can she keep this up and is there a point at which Charles Xavier will expose Mystique? If "Senator Kelly" should run for president and get a party nomination, umm how far along would Charles Xavier let the charade go? Oh yea, this movie was definitely written for a sequel to occur.

That's other stuff that I consider 'flaws' to be pointed, but I don't feel like addressing.
**END X-MEN SPOILERS**

Oh yea, since I'm fairly confident that the majority of people don't care, my semester tests are next week.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 12:44:59 AM
IP: 204.94.193.23

Vinnie: <What are you crazy I never ever mentioned Black anything>
So, I take it you are NOT familiar with the story about the militaries 'Black Helicopters'?

Patrick: <In the immortal words of Ron Weasley, "Can we panic NOW?!?">
Well, I like what he said about Eisner.

Gside: <He's your father>
I don't think that's a viable excuse any more.
<good luck with that.>
That's gonna be a real pain. 1 car, three people, 6 jobs...

But it was such a good dream!
I think I need a new tuner, though. All I am picking up is old Digimon reruns.
< Is it any worse than any other way of picking lotto numbers?>
Nope! WOO-HOO!
<Then write up the script and see if you can't trick The Bizz or someone into drawing it for you.>
Or, you know, I could actually learn to draw.
<Then I just won't volunteer for any rehabilitation programs.>
Silly, silly man. What makes you think it will be voluntary?
<So do you wanna found the Apathy Party? I'd do it, but I just don't care enough.>
I don't care. Whatever.

Revel: 
Sickening, isn't it?
<As for money, wish I could help>
Thanks for the offer, but I really couldn't (wouldn't) accept it if you could offer. I'm just like that.
<Spacie and I are waiting till school is over before making any wedding plans>
That was the theory... then I realized that I'll never be finished with school.

Mecord: <Mormons had strict regulations about who was allowed (or who was deemed responsible enough) to practise it>
Really? That's pretty interesting. BTW... since that appears to be your religious background (unless I am misreading your post), how did polygamy start in the Mormon religion?
<Those who do practice it now abuse it horribly>
True...
BUT, and here is the big but, what about the NON-Mormon people that live together as a more than 2 people couple? I know people are out there like that. THEY generally seem to be responsible. Should couples like them be prohibited from marrying each other simply because of a few irresponsible people?
Of course... look where I am saying this. I am saying this in a country that punishes gamers/movie goers/etc because of a few stupid people because they emulate what happens in games/movies/TV/etc.

Kathy: Interesting article.
"Polygamy was renounced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1890 as part of a deal to grant Utah statehood"
Ok... THAT I didn't know.

Green Baron: <Just send all that you have to my paypal account: Green_Baron77@yahoo.com>
HALLELUJAH, send me checks!
<Now, how's that for a sermon>
Preach it, brother!

Lain: <my dad doesnt even know yet...>
Not too surprised, given how he is. So... are you going to tell him or invite him?
Fire Storm
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 12:17:40 AM
IP: 65.114.91.3

TGS proudly presents a Pendragon Season 4 Story . . .

Carbonek Part 2

Story idea by Todd Jensen.

Written by Todd Jensen.

Additional material provided by Ed Reynolds and Sir Thomas Malory.

Original Artwork by Foxx Laverinth

Click my name, go to the link at the top of the cr that says "Current Episode", or visit http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/ce.html to read this week's story.
DPH - [<--Click here to read this week's story]
AR, USA
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 12:09:26 AM
IP: 204.94.193.23

Greg> <<A New Zealand spider, there were pictures of it up on a site, and trust me, it definetly looked suitably creepy>>: If a weta is a New Zealand cricket, New Zealand spiders should be very creepy.

Revel> <<This joint is really tame compared to some forums>>: The quote was inregards to the Medium, wich can get very raunchy/hatefull, and is currently being critisized for what the allowed through.

Mecord> <<most polygamists don't live in Utah>>: Why center a religion in one state when all the people who have fun with it are in another?
<<Most people don't realize that the early Mormons had strict regulations>>: Nope, but they're the closest, most popular group associated with polygamy, so they I don't mind using them for the jokes.

Kathy> <<Hey, where's Josh?>>: Probably busy with graduate work.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, December 1, 2003 11:54:41 PM
IP: 68.37.159.199

23rd in the name of laziness.
silvadel
Monday, December 1, 2003 11:26:03 PM
IP: 24.225.134.30

green baron>> << columbus day? o.O what does canadian thanksgiving have to do with columbus? canadian thanksgiving is celebrated on that day because a) european farmers used to celebrate around that time for their good harvests, b) some newfie guy gave thanks around there for having made it over the pond safely or c) a combination of the US settlers first harvest plus what some french settlers were doing at the same time. makes sense that canada has it earlier, though - due to northern location, our growing season is shorter and our harvest earlier. while i share karens aversion to residential schools, i dont see the connection. <<Ontario (after the recent election) are run by Tories>> finally we booted the idiots out! huzzah!

graymonk>> <<Heh. Here on PEI they originally wanted to name Holland College the Sammuel Holland Institute of Technology>> remember when they wanted to call it the "canadian reform alliance party"? aaaah, those were the days.... <<So the Illuminati have an elite fighting squad called the Sword? Interesting, verrrrry Iiiiineteresting>> well youre darned observant, arent you? guess i lose the bet, ed! *forks over some cookies and ice cream* <<although I suspect Liberal means something a lot different in the USA>> yes, it does. american liberals are scaaaaaary! <<Wait, you're Canadian?>> yesh. <<What part are you from? I'm an Islander>> im from ontario, currently residing in texas though. i miss my country :( <<Tribun - <<Hardwing made a devastating critique on the German main board, which I can put here translated if you want>>>> you never answered to this.

ed>> <<Well, one of the recent hiatuses was 16 months...>> yeah so youd better start kissing up now, hadnt you? ;)

fire storm>> <<Well, I asked my father for money to help with the wedding>> my dad doesnt even know yet...

lain
Monday, December 1, 2003 11:03:56 PM
IP: 4.7.35.8

Greetings and Salutations.

Vinnie> A sermon...I'll make a sermon:

<southern accent> The world is doomed by it's sinful ways and there is only one refuge. You must send you're evil money to me, so I can wash it in the blood of the lamb!! Just send all that you have to my paypal account: Green_Baron77@yahoo.com

And the Lord said, "render unto Caeser what is Caeser's, but Caeser's dead so just give it to the Green Baron or his dead cat. </southern accent>

Now, how's that for a sermon :)

so Liberal Theology rules the world...it's not that grim. Also, there are diffeences between Liberalism and Leftism. www.michaeltotten.com is a good link for a pro-war liberal who has been branded a right-wing plant and worse by some leftists out in lala land or Indymedia.

Pat Buchanan is a right-winger against the war, while Christopher Hitchens was very for it, and he is quite liberal. Plus Chirac is a conservative while Blair is not (just ask Ed).

I have other things to mention, but not right now. I think you're beef is with certain hypocrital limousine liberal types who don't walk the walk, like Mike Eisner who supported Clinton's increase in capital gains tax, but liquidated stocks around a certain date to avoid paying it, and equally bad are promoters of family values who are on their third wife.

Dezi has a dad in Iraq who is in a lot more danger than even me (unless short poofy-haired dictator decides to nuke Camp Humphreys),so I can understand her reasons, though I may not agree with her.

Graymonk> Well, I recall Canada hedges its bets politically. I think most of Canada's provinces save Quebec and Ontario (after the recent election) are run by Tories, though they put Liberals in National Parliament. Granted, the Western parts just go PC or Alliance for both.

Incidentally, Newfondland's new Premiere is my beloved Karen's MPP, so I hope that benefits her.

Kathy> ::hugs::I'm doing well, despite acold. BTW, click on my name for a picture of Karen and myself.

Patrick> I just saw it on the news, too. I'd encourage a massive sell off of Disney as a response, then we buy it up before the price rebounds :)

Lain> Interesting that Canada's Thanksgiving is the sameas Columbus Day. Karen sees no use for it, either since she feels awful about the residetial schools.

Spacebabie> ::hugs::

Greg X> I founf an article by Mark Steyn saying which five countries shoudl be next:

North Korea, Syria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Camp Humphreys, Korea
Monday, December 1, 2003 10:03:39 PM
IP: 218.145.25.48

Odd footnote to the polygamy question ::click::

Well to day was an odd day. But then Monday's generally are. Went out to lunch and dinner (birthday non cooking rule), and the guys I let hunt my land paid off in venison. (Cool) I learned something slightly disturbing about cornish cross chickens when I butchered a batch this morning (I think I'll keep that to myself to avoid disturbing the more squeamish faction of the room though).
And I found out very few people know what diatomaceous earth is.

Spacebabie > That's rough. Condolences.

Hey, where's Josh?
kathy
Monday, December 1, 2003 09:25:28 PM
IP: 66.82.195.100

(I might have known Todd would be writing a post at the same time I was. ;))
Ed
Monday, December 1, 2003 06:55:56 PM
IP: 131.111.8.102

***SPOILERS FOR CARBONEK PART ONE***

Graymonk: As usual, great to hear your thoughts. Since you mention the Merlin scene, I think the thing I got the biggest kick out of there was Merlin mixing advice for others with his brief and childlike moment of panic as he realises he’s going to die. I thought Todd aced that scene. And like you, I also love Sybil and Singleton (although I’m biased on the latter since I did the most with him).

Regarding your ‘bad’ comments… wait and see is all I’ll say. I think the reason we needed the Mary sacrifice and the supporting characters will become clear in the remaining parts. The Molly scene was probably my fault, though. Todd wrote that scene for part two and I suggested moving it to part one instead, partly because it seemed to fit that episode better, and partly because there was already a lot going on it part two. Nothing that’s going on here is for its own sake though.

As far as I know, Todd made Crickley up. At least, I’m from Herts and don’t know Crickley. Oddly, we’ve usually stuck to real places in the stories so far so I’m not sure why it never occurred to us (or never occurred to me, at any rate) to use an existing village. I guess it would seem a bit strange having so much happen there. It’s near the estate, at any rate, presumably on the edge of the suburban sprawl of London, venturing towards the green belt area.

***END SPOILERS***
Ed
Monday, December 1, 2003 06:54:27 PM
IP: 131.111.8.102

BISHANSKY - I was bewildered about the family barbecue bit until I realized that you were talking about "The Pyre of Denethor". (At least, I assume that that's what you're talking about; it's the only thing that makes sense in the context.)

GRAYMONK - Thanks for your review. I see Crickley as being near both the estate and London. Glad that you liked the scene between Morgana and Sybil (one thing that occurred to me only after writing it is that it also evokes the scene in "Julius Caesar" where Brutus, Cassius, and the others are plotting Caesar's assassination. Cassius wants them to assassinate Mark Antony as well as Caesar, but Brutus argues against it on the grounds that it's too bloodthirsty and unnecessary - they should just stick with killing Caesar).

And don't worry - everything will fall into place by the end of Part Three. Trust me on this one.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, December 1, 2003 06:54:21 PM
IP: 63.186.0.89

I've been so busy I haven't even had time to lurk for any length of time. But some of the conversations caught my eye.

Gside>> <raid on Utah> most polygamists don't live in Utah. try Idaho, colorado, Ohio, and Missouri. I know of colonies in all those states.

Same-sex marraige>> To be honest, I don't care much. It's their life. But, from my religion's point of view there's not much point in it. But if they want to get married for tax reasons... why not?

Polygamy> Most people don't realize that the early Mormons had strict regulations about who was allowed (or who was deemed responsible enough) to practise it. Now I'm not asking for a debate here and I'm not going to answer any coments on this, but again, from my religious point of view, I don't see a problem with it. However, I don't think we're ready for it being legal in all 50 states. Those who do practice it now abuse it horribly. So in other words, NO.
Mecord
Logan, Utah
Monday, December 1, 2003 06:51:31 PM
IP: 129.123.104.5

Thanksgiving break was, well like most breaks for my family. This year we all climbed into Dad's truck and drove to Plano. I suppose you've never lived till you are riding in an F-250 that is screaming down the freeway at 90+ mph with him screaming, "Get off the damn cell phone and drive!" to the people who were in his way. Surprisingly, no ticket. Now this is my Dad's side of the family, (His two sisters, my cousins, his mother, stepfather, and one of my Aunt's boyfriends, who had kids of his own.) Food was fine, conversation remained neutral for the most part. Played Halo and dominated my brother and my cousins, Ranger and Cutter. I don't mind the get togethers, but it feels like everyone just is going through the motions for my grandmother, who organizes thes things and the ironic part is My Dad and his sisters can't stand her. Her voice is annoying as hell, but I still like my grandparents... guess that's just family for you.
Watched T3, was okay. Helped mom get paint for the house, the color looks like chocolate milk. Always wanted a chocolate house when I was younger. Less that two weeks of school left. Damn teacher wants me to do another painting.
:P

Polygamy Poll: sure, if it works for you. I'll just stick to one woman though.

Gside- <<allowing a forum in which people can voice any opinion is dangerous and can lead to an unsafe environment>> All part of the territory. Though in all honesty from what I have seen, This joint is really tame compared to some forums. Almost like a small dysfunctional family that stays in contact.

Fire Storm- <<Hell, given the way the world is, you almost need more than 2 incomes in a house>> I will file this under "Sad, but true." As for money, wish I could help, but need to get myself working again as well, then when school is done all these loans are goign to come back to haunt me.Spacie and I are waiting till school is over before making any wedding plans.

Spacebabie- *slips in behind Spacie and wraps arms around her holding tightly, no more words needing to be said*

Political stuff- in a nutshell, you don't like the way things are, start a campaign to change it or a petition. You would be surprised how powerful just being annoying and in people's faces can be. Yeah and vote, that's important too.
Revel - [samrx5@cs.com]
denton, tx
Monday, December 1, 2003 06:06:00 PM
IP: 129.120.174.168

Whooeee! wake the kids and phone the neighbors cuz it looks like all Hell is about to break loose for the PENDRAGON crew!

*****WARNING! SPOILERS FOR "CARBONEK PART 1"*****

THE GOOD: The overall tone. A tone of "something big is coming and everything is about to change" permeated the entire story. The quick scenes made it feel fast paced while the relatively action free content of those scenes created a calm before the storm sensation. "Reawakening," "Avalon," "The Gathering part 1" and "Hunter's Moon" all had a similar sensation in their opening acts so I'm taking that as a good sign.

-Speaking of "The Gathering," the first scene at the Marter estate was a nice reversal of the opening scene in the clock tower. The supporting characters discuss recent events that have taken place on the homefront while the main cast has been away, only for the stars to show up as their talking, but this time instead of a joyus reunion scene we see a sombre lament for a failed quest. Pretty smooth Todd.

-Merlin's goodbye speech to Mary and Arthur. That really got to me, this poor guy's dying and his last concerns are about making sure his friend and girlfriend will be okay without him. Melrin may have done some horrible things in his time but he obviously cares a lot about the people close to him. I was alos a little surprised when he advised Arthur to meet with government leaders. I'd assumed Arthur's new round table would opperate like an anti-Illuminati, working secretly to defend the innocent. This brings in a whole new set of complications to Arthur's new role I hadn't expected.

-Sybil. I loved her conversation with Morgana. Not only did it adress some long standing issues with Morgana's character re:Arthur's knights it finally defined a suitable role for Sybil. Ever since the Queen of Northalgis was introduced I've been wondering what purpose does she serve in the PENDRAGON tapestry. Usually she comes off as Morgana lite, all the evil, none of the complexity. Now I get it, she's the devil on Morgana's shoulder, pushing her to do the things Morgana should do but can't bear to. In a way their relationship reminds me of the one between the Star Trek villain Dukat and his Weyoun hallucination in the episode "Waltz." He urged Dukat to do the evil/practical thing and kill the hero but Dukat refused because of his own pyschological needs. Morgana doesn't kill Arthur's knights partly because she needs to feel justified, she needs to feel that she's better than Uther and won't wontonly destroy everyone who gets on her way, and partly because she needs to atone for getting her lover and daughter killed and sees forming a loving family with the Seftons as a means to do it. But Sybil is always right there, ready to tell her screw that, it you want vengeance you're going to have to give up the first need and if you do succeeed there's no way to fulfil the second, so why bother? Mark down another successful season 4 villain revamp.

-And on the subject of villains, I really dig Singleton. he's a smart and cunning blighter who really seems to know how to get things done. Using the vampyres was a brillaint move. One I never saw coming but it makes perfect sense and ties back nicely to the vision in "No Mercy."

-Nigel's reaction to Morgana's secret ID. I was expecting Nigel to flip his lid like in "The Once and Future King" but this is much better. It's just so delicous, had Nigel found out about Morgana a year ago he probably would have blown a gasket, but he's had several months, and progress reports from Mary to help him acclimate to the idea of the supernatural. Without Mary and her curse, Morgana wouldn't stand a chance with Nigel. So delightfuly ironic :)

THE BAD: -The cliffhanger. Everybody else mentioned this so There's no real point in rehashing it. Just one more reason why I didn't care for Timedancer season 4.

-I'm not really up on my English geography, is this Crickley village the grail is coming to near London or the estate?

-Too much of a good thing (maybe?) I'm glad to see so many threads being adressed but I'm concerned Todd might be biting off more than he can chew with so many plot lines on the go at once. Towards the end it felt as if he was trying to throw every character and the kitchen sink into "Carbonek" while the Arthur/Morgana/Illuminati/Ifest threads worked well together, The Lucius and Molly scenes (Molly's especially) felt tacked on. This isn't really a flaw, more a cause for concern, I'll reserve judgement until part 3 to see how Todd wraps everything up.

THE MISC: -So the Illuminati have an elite fighting squad called the Sword? Interesting, verrrrry Iiiiineteresting. Of course, this bears the question where have these slackers been while the Unsilees were on the warpath and Caledonian Gargoyles were making the Illuminati look like Elmer Fudd in Wabbit season?

THE WRAP UP: A terrific beginning, lots of long standing threads are already being adressed, pity about Mary, guess Merlin marries her clone 9.5 Grails out of ten.

*****WATCH OUT! "CARBONEK PART 1" SPOILERS!*****

Patrick - <<Breaking news... Roy Disney has resigned.

In the immortal words of Ron Weasley, "Can we panic NOW?!?">> You mean you haven't started panicing already? They had the text of his resignation letter. My name's link should take you to it if you're interested.

Vinnie - <<Didn't you know Liberalism is the new world religion>> No, just Canada's. We've been under Liberal rule for more than a decade and it doesn't look like that's going to change any time soon, although I suspect Liberal means something a lot different in the USA.

Lain - <<ed>> <<(Canada doesn’t celebrate it, does it?)>> yeah, we do. we celebrate thanksgiving on the second monday in october, which is MUCH smarter because then when christmas rolls around, youre not still sick of turkey from all the leftovers youve had to eat for a month ;)>> Unless your dad used to be a Yank, then you eat a turkey in October, another in November, another in December and leftovers in January and February.

Suddenly I am very glad I'm not living at home this year.

Wait, you're Canadian? What part are you from? I'm an Islander :)

Plygamy poll - Hell no. I have a hard enough time getting a date as it is.

Yggdrasil - <<I'm heading over to Israel for a few weeks to run some experiments. Not my first choice of labs, but my supervisor wants me there (I just hope I make it our alive :-) )>> I hope so too, good luck over there.

Green Baron - <> That reminds me, I used to have the web adress for a really interesting defense of Pius written by a Jewish Rabbi. IIRC His basic thesis was that Pius's connection to the Nazis has been blown out of proportion by Catholics trying to use the Holocast as an excuse to effect changes in the church and that he found that practice reprehnsible, I'll see if I can turn it up for you, I think you'd find it of interest.

Re: TIMEDANCER:
Tribun - <<Hardwing made a devastating critique on the German main board, which I can put here translated if you want>>

Ed - <<Personally, I’m intrigued by what Hardwing had to say, but I don’t know if anyone else would be for you to go to the time of translating it.>> I would, I have a few issues with TD season 4 myself and I'd be interested in hearing what other people thought of it.

DPH - <<I heard of this organization on the radio: Stop Hurting Innocent Turkeys. I would say what kind of morons choose a group name without looking at its acronym, but I believe those morons already belong in that category.>> Heh. Here on PEI they originally wanted to name Holland College the Sammuel Holland Institute of Technology :)

The school's colours were going to been brown BTW.

Todd - << I will admit that you didn't choose the ideal location for it. A fanfiction-oriented forum might have been more appropriate, or even an Arthurian-oriented forum. But thanks for doing your part in advertising it. Pity that it backfired>> Yeah. My reasoning was that there would probably be more "Gargoyles" fans on the Disney Board than the Story Board but I can definetly see why a couple people got so upset. Oh well, *shrugs* maybe some of the hundred plus people who read my post will find their way here.
Graymonk - [mmckinnongra@hotmail.com]
Monday, December 1, 2003 02:52:31 PM
IP: 198.164.140.100

TODD> We got a brief glimpse of Shelob in the trailer. I believe she has eight eyes, and they based her design on a real spider. A New Zealand spider, there were pictures of it up on a site, and trust me, it definetly looked suitably creepy. I can't wait to see Shelob herself.

Another scene I'm truly looking forward to is the Family Barbeque. That should be good fun for all ;)
Greg Bishansky
Monday, December 1, 2003 11:33:49 AM
IP: 216.179.1.208

With the premiere of "The Return of the King" only 16 days away, I've been rereading "The Lord of the Rings" in preparation for the movie. I've finished the first two books, and will be (hopefully) starting on "The Return of the King" itself today.

One thing that I'm a bit curious about is how Shelob will look in the movie. The reason for this is that (as friends of mine who know more about arachnid anatomy than I do have pointed out), Tolkien's description of Shelob doesn't entirely match the appearance of real spiders (and not just because of her size, either). For a start, real spiders have eight tiny little eyes; Shelob, however, had two huge multi-faceted eyes like those of an insect. Also, Shelob had a head separate from her body, while real spiders don't have necks; the head is part of the body for them. Finally, Shelob is described as stinging her victims, but spiders don't have stings (they use their jaws instead; the part of them at the rear that looks like a sting is actually the thing that they use to produce their webbing).

Which gets me curious; will the movie designers change the book to make Shelob look more like a real (if overgrown) spider? Or will they decide to follow Tolkien's description of her where it differs from that of real spider anatomy? (I think that the two multi-faceted eyes would have to stay; eight tiny little eyes looming in the darkness over Frodo and Sam wouldn't have the same dramatic impact.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, December 1, 2003 08:55:52 AM
IP: 63.186.1.202

Hopefully, 10th!
Leo
Monday, December 1, 2003 08:42:15 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Nine! This spot is mine!
Graymonk
Monday, December 1, 2003 07:13:20 AM
IP: 198.164.140.100

Six is afraid of seven because seven EIGHT nine. ;)

:: flag ::
Patrick
Monday, December 1, 2003 06:47:43 AM
IP: 65.43.152.72

Very slow week if _I_ can join the top 10 race.....
7th in the name of the Fay.
Guandalug la'Fay
Monday, December 1, 2003 06:02:54 AM
IP: 129.217.143.253

Six!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Monday, December 1, 2003 03:52:08 AM
IP: 216.234.99.252

Sweet! 5
Dezi
Monday, December 1, 2003 01:59:22 AM
IP: 68.58.158.101

4
lain
Monday, December 1, 2003 01:20:59 AM
IP: 4.7.35.8

3rd.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, December 1, 2003 12:41:40 AM
IP: 68.37.159.199

2
cairo
Monday, December 1, 2003 12:29:22 AM
IP: 66.139.6.61

Top 10, #1?
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, December 1, 2003 12:25:55 AM
IP: 204.94.193.25