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36 eggs - 3 gargoyle beasts = 33 gargoyles
15 female gargoyles + Angela = 16 female gargoyles
33 gargoyles - 16 female gargoyles = 17 male gargoyles
16 < 17

Including the gargoyle beasts makes for bogus math unless you're going to assume the leftover male gargoyle is going to mate with the gargoyle beast. That's like having 33 humans and 3 chimpanzees. Unless the last guy left is Michael Jackson... Houston, we have a problem.

85 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Monday, September 13, 2004 07:14:10 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Thank ye all for the birthday wishes. : )


and we know there is a beast pair on avalon in addition to Boudicca, because Greg Weisman has not only confirmed it, he has had to anwser people asking about whether or not they would have bred yet, since the beast gargoyles start earlier. (He isn't sure about wether or not they have an egg/ hatched pup yet, since Avalon is wonky.)

Angela has 15 rookery sisters, but there were 18 female gargoyles total on Avalon. Angela + 15 + Boudicca + other female beast. Half the Avalon rookery is indeed female.
Lynati
Monday, September 13, 2004 02:47:46 AM
IP: 4.139.18.203

Happy birthday Lynati.

Tharos> <<the whole time I read that I was thinking, "Man, I thought I had kept up with 'Jack'.">>: Actually, if you think about it, Jack's sins are already dead. Be bad enough in life, and you become a sin there.

Sam> <<Does anyone know if timedancer is being played on tv?>>: Not a chance, anything you'll see of it is fan made.
<<I don't think Brooklye should have aged in timedancer Do you?>>: The whole point of it was that he spent a bunch of time away from the clan, but not my the clan's point of view.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, September 12, 2004 11:41:31 PM
IP: 69.141.212.54

I don't think Brooklye should have aged in timedancer Do you?

sam scioli - [CSlommoman5@aol.com]
Ipswich, Ma, America
Sunday, September 12, 2004 06:01:30 PM
IP: 152.163.100.196

Does anyone know if timedancer is being played on tv? Sicificaly Toon Disney? If you know please respond.
Sam Scioli - [CSlimmoman@Aol.com]
Ipswich, MA, North america
Sunday, September 12, 2004 05:56:35 PM
IP: 152.163.100.196

Gside: <<And Fire Storm, I bet you thought I was talking about Jack until I got to that Homunculi bit.>>
*raises hand* I don't know about FireStorm, but the whole time I read that I was thinking, "Man, I thought I had kept up with 'Jack'." :-)

And happy birthday to Lynati!
Tharos
Sunday, September 12, 2004 12:55:46 PM
IP: 69.40.141.190

*British accent*

You there! cake or Death!

I'll thake the cake, please.

We're all out of cake.

Oh, well then I'll take the chicken!

Happy birthday.
Revel
Sunday, September 12, 2004 11:51:29 AM
IP: 68.119.237.207

Let there be cake and merriment for it's Lynati's birthday!
kathy
Sunday, September 12, 2004 08:08:19 AM
IP: 66.82.9.46

Sealed the driveway, managed to stay mostly clean, especially with the pair of hazmat booties our neighbor gave us.

So Greed, Sloth, and Lust are dead. We know where Wrath came from. Envy was made by their father, so he's kept something lying around to be found. Pride is important enough to be somewhere. But what about Gluttony? He's essentially the joke of the Homunculi, and he may turn out to be unkillable. And Fire Storm, I bet you thought I was talking about Jack until I got to that Homunculi bit.

DPH> <<Given my probable word choice, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to figure out which comments were mine>>: I have very distinctive handwriting, and never worried much about being identified. That, and I hardly ever wrote much.

Lynati> <<it is then feasible that a gargoyle could breed 4 four times, and have two eggs one of those times, for a total of 5 eggs>>: Extremely rare means to me around a percent, not a quarter.

Leo> <<The only drawback is files saved in a newer version of Finale are not backward compatible with older versions>>: Pretty much the same for any watever editor (Word, Excel). But there's usually a way to save it as an older file format.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, September 12, 2004 01:23:01 AM
IP: 69.141.212.54

From Ask Greg

Corrine Blaquen writes...
How many of the thirty-six (I'm not positive it was thirty-six) eggs that were taken to Avalon were gargoyle beasts ?

Greg responds...

A few. At least three.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, September 11, 2004 11:49:28 PM
IP: 162.84.164.187

Leo: <<Finale is a cool program I've been using that program for almost 10 years now. Before I graduated, I was a teacher's assistant in the "Music Technology" class at my university. Unless you're over 40 and your only computer experience is Microsoft word,(apologies to anyone who might be offended. :) ) you can pretty much figure everything out by experrimenting or using the "help" file. The only drawback is files saved in a newer version of Finale are not backward compatible with older versions. :-(

What version are you using?>>
That's really cool that you were involved in the Music Tech department at your school; that's my major. I'm not sure which version we're on - we're upgrading to the newest one next week, and getting all new G5s with System 10, so that should rock. I guess they're big Finale fans at my school. Bill Purse, the Chair of Guitar and head of Music Tech, wrote one of the main books teaching use of the program ("The Finale Primer" I think) and he's been with it since the beginning, or close to it - so I'm told. What university did you go to?
Tharos
Saturday, September 11, 2004 11:49:04 PM
IP: 69.40.141.190

Patrick> Are we sure there isn't another pair of gargoyle beasts on Avalon? I seem to remember that there were, but that might have been fanfic... Anybody remember?

Aaron
Saturday, September 11, 2004 11:36:22 PM
IP: 172.133.41.222

Tharos:<<Right now I'm in a class learning this program called Finale.>>

Finale is a cool program I've been using that program for almost 10 years now. Before I graduated, I was a teacher's assistant in the "Music Technology" class at my university. Unless you're over 40 and your only computer experience is Microsoft word,(apologies to anyone who might be offended. :) ) you can pretty much figure everything out by experrimenting or using the "help" file. The only drawback is files saved in a newer version of Finale are not backward compatible with older versions. :-(

What version are you using?
Leo
Saturday, September 11, 2004 01:44:44 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

DPH: <<It's how to fill out that comments page that I am concerned about. I feel I need to be honest, but at the same time, that's the same teacher who teaches the
follow-up Cobol class.>>
I don't see what you're that afraid of if you fill it out with something like that post. You're not really being disrespectful to the teacher. It would probably be really useful to them if you said in the evaluation, "I find programming easier to learn through experience at the computers than through lecture, so the class may have been more effective if we spent more time at the computers." Unless this professor is a total asshole, I doubt what you've said so far would offend them in the slightest.

I know what you mean about needing supervised lab time. Don't you guys have lab hours outside of class where you could get in and program? Right now I'm in a class learning this program called Finale. I don't really need the class to pick it up - I just need to get in the labs and screw with it a lot, but thank God there are grad. assistants there for when I screw things up.
Tharos
Saturday, September 11, 2004 12:59:52 PM
IP: 69.40.141.190

The gender of crocodile hatchlings is determined by the temperature at which the eggs are incubated, but that results in a clutch that is either all male or all female. I lean towards the idaa that gargoyle gender is controled by genetics, as it is in humans. If there was some "magic" that kept the numbers equal in a rookery, the Avalon clan would have had equal numbers. But we know they do not, because there were 36 eggs, one of them was a gargoyle beast (Boudicca), and Angela stated "I have 15 rookery sisters on Avalon." So that means out of 36 eggs, the math says 1 was a gargoyle beast, 16 were female, and 19 were male.

So a challenge. Develop a probability-based estimate of future population growth to see what happens when the male to female ratio is not 50/50. (You might need your calculators for this one.)

87 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Saturday, September 11, 2004 08:33:46 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

...Ironically enough, it occured to me DPH was actually backing my previous comments about potential population growth. *sigh*
I'm playing devil's advocate to my own argument. Well, I was arguing for theoretical stastics in the Dark Ages era. Present day, yeah, it is going to be a lot higher, if that gargoyle clans have access to the same technology/food stores/improvement in medical knowledge that humans do. Compared to average humans ratios (in non third-world countries), it would put the gargoyle numbers closer to virtually no deaths before the second breeding season, which would probably equal needing to split a clan in a 120 years.


Can you guys tell how bad my insomnia has gotten yet? I bet you can.
I think I'm going to try to avoid these conversations for a bit before someone shoots me to shut me up.
Lynati
Saturday, September 11, 2004 07:19:31 AM
IP: 4.139.33.34

DPH: Here's the question: how many eggs can a gargoyle female lay at one time? 1. One. Two on EXTREMELY rare occasions, maybe.
during there life time? 2. Three or four tops.

so, it is then feasible that a gargoyle could breed 4 four times, and have two eggs one of those times, for a total of 5 eggs.


...and yeah, it would grow that fast if every gargoyle ever hatched lived to breed, and all three times no less. even if you remove a pair or two by the time third season rolls around, you still get exponential growth.

But that is not a likely happening. Especially not pre-civilization, where you are likely to lose between .8 and .9 of the hatchlings before their first breeding season (2 out of 20), and then a couple more in the twenty year span before their second season, and even more before their third season when they are past their prime.

Gargoyles, while hardy, are not invulnerable. And age does a lot to your mortaility rate. The problem is determing what factors affect mortality rate, applying it to gargoyles and figuring out what survival is per age group (not generation), and then checking to see if those numbers when applied to eggs produced equals growth, balance, or shrinking in overall clan numbers.

And don't forget, even if your averages are good, all it takes is one disaster- famine, freezing winter, the rare disease that might affect a garg quick enough to kill- and you could lose half a rookery, or even half a clan. It takes longer to recover from setbacks like that.


You know, it has occured to me several times over the last few years that with the research I have to do just to keep my arguments about gargoyle biology accurate, I might as well continue school and work for a degree in ecology.
Lynati
Saturday, September 11, 2004 05:26:51 AM
IP: 63.158.248.17

**FRUSTRATION/DILEMNA**
(Ok, I'm getting really lazy; I'm copying text from an email that I sent to an RL friend.)

I got really, really frustrated today with a teacher's
methods. While I was at it, I solved the mystery of
why students said that class was hard.

It's about my Cobol I class, which happens to be
taught by my academic advisor (hence, the dilemna part
which I'll get to later).

In case you don't know, Cobol is a computer
programming language and the class for it is held in a
computer lab. The problem is how class time is spent.
We barely get 10-15 minutes of class time to work on
the computers. I don't learn a computer language
through lecture; I learn through interaction (ie.
supervised lab time). I'm willing to wager that that
lack of supervised lab time is what causes students
problems learning. Supervised lab time means that if
a student runs into problem, the teacher is available
in the computer lab to answer questions.

The teacher thinks that my wanting extra lab time is
due to my computer science background. It has nothing
to do with my computer science background, and
everything to do with how material is learned.

The dilemna is what to do when it's that day for doing
evaluations of the class. Given my probable word
choice, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to figure
out which comments were mine. The standard procedure
is answer a bunch of general questions about the
teacher and have a separate page for comments. It's
how to fill out that comments page that I am concerned
about. I feel I need to be honest, but at the same
time, that's the same teacher who teaches the
follow-up Cobol class.
**END FRUSTRATION/DILEMNA**

Good news on a personal front. I finally got to join a small programming group where I have been doing stuff related to the program for a while. It's nice to be official.

My dad is gone for the weekend to visit some relatives in upper Lousy Anna. (wonders if this comment will get Green Baron's attention)

Lynati - <Actually, Weisman's theory says 1 every twenty years, not three only. supposedly a female could manage 5 in a lifetime. TGS says only 3.> Check this link out: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=7491 If that doesn't work, look under Gargoyle Biology, here's the date the question was submitted: Question received on Fri, November 02, 2001 11:15:15 AM. Here's who submitted it: Adam Carlson writes... . Here's the question: how many eggs can a gargoyle female lay at one time? during there life time? Greg's response: 1. One. Two on EXTREMELY rare occasions, maybe. Maybe.
2. Three or four tops.

Lynati - <Sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper. play with the numbers.> I've done that. :-) Started with a group of 30 gargoyles (assumed 50% were female and 50% of all newborn hatchlings were female and each oen lived long enough to give birth to 3 generations) and did the math. In less than a century (correct me if I'm wrong), a gargoyle clan of 30 members would have to split because of large population. Recovery takes time.


DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, September 11, 2004 01:51:56 AM
IP: 67.14.195.19

Lynati> <<the magical aspect of the balancing isn't even neccessary to explain the process>>: No, but I'd say it's still a good idea to have it to give the process the extra kick.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, September 11, 2004 12:57:59 AM
IP: 69.141.212.54

Tharos: [This is what happens when I open my mouth before I know what I'm talking about (hard to believe, but I don't do this nearly as often when I'm not online). My fault]

Heh, don't sweat it. I'm hardly guilt-free of that "crime" myself. ; )

Gside: actually, I'm playing around a bit with how gender norms impact the clans in my own ficverse. I have the theory that a combination of hormones and magic keep the number of male and female hatchlings as even as possible- as in, gender doesn't develop in utero, it develops during the 9.whatever years the kids are in the egg, and since all the eggs are typically together...etc.

Only, the oberon/titania "divorce" and the fae banishment from Avalon impacted the "natural magic" of the rest of the world, and screwed up that balance. Really, the magical aspect of the balancing isn't even neccessary to explain the process, I just threw it in to my world to have some fun. ; )
Lynati
Friday, September 10, 2004 08:48:14 PM
IP: 4.139.48.248

Lynati: <<us trying to spike the Amazon ratings so that the DVD gets more notice- and hopefully more promotion- by Amazon itself. if there is a sudden, significant enough jump in sales of an item, Amazon puts it on its weekly bestseller list, which in turn is shown on random parts of the site.>>
Ooooh. Gotcha. Welp, I'm in. :)
This is what happens when I open my mouth before I know what I'm talking about (hard to believe, but I don't do this nearly as often when I'm not online). My fault.
Tharos
Friday, September 10, 2004 01:22:33 AM
IP: 69.40.138.249

Lynati> <<Unless you meant if there were more females than males in a clan>>: Ayup.
<<I always assumed that there were typically more males than females>>: That is usually the case, because males tend to do more dangerous things, not to mention fighting among themselves, so those numbers would get knocked back. You'd need the extra to begin with so you'd still have enough variation afterward. But then with more cooperation and more balance in gender deaths, better to have more gestation tanks than fertilizers.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, September 9, 2004 11:37:31 PM
IP: 69.141.212.54

Well, Weisman himself just posted in s8 that he is talking to an actual Disney Marketing person to help determine the best date to do it, so actual talk on this is now moot.
Speculation is fine though. ; )

Tharos: Um, this has nothing to do with showing Disney anything. At least not directly. This is us trying to spike the Amazon ratings so that the DVD gets more notice- and hopefully more promotion- by Amazon itself. if there is a sudden, significant enough jump in sales of an item, Amazon puts it on its weekly bestseller list, which in turn is shown on random parts of the site. (At least, this is how it has been explained to me.) More people seeing it = More people being aware it is for sale and then hopefully buying it. DVD sales = really excellent = Disney deciding it might be worthwhile to start putting the second season out on DVD.
You do want the second season out on DVD, don't you?

And this *is* an attempt to get people outside the fandom to hear about it; both to help with the group pre-ordering and the point of doing a mass pre-ordering itself. ...Although, how Amazon or Disney would know one person who pre-orders from another as whether or not they are aware or active in this internet fandom is beyond me.

Lynati
Thursday, September 9, 2004 05:26:12 PM
IP: 4.139.48.29

Lynati: October 4th is really cool since it was a significant date in the story, but it should probably be closer to the release date.

And if the whole point of this to show Disney that the show has a fanbase, I'm not quite seeing what this big preorder will accomplish. Sure, they'll know that there's a dedicated cult following (which they already know if they sent film crews to the Gathering), but they need to know there's a BIG fandom, not a dedicated one. I think more effort should be spent on getting people outside this online fandom to get it - but I guess that's easier said than done.
Okay, ramble mode off.
Tharos
Thursday, September 9, 2004 10:57:44 AM
IP: 165.190.89.139

<<What does the rest of the room think??>>

I think we need to be patient and wait for Greg, since he has the most access to the people who are going to know what the best time is. October 4 is easy to remember for me 'cause it's my birthday, but that's still over 2 months away from the actual release date, which is probably more than enough time for whatever we make happen on Amazon to be forgotten by the time the DVD hits store shelves.

89 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Thursday, September 9, 2004 07:01:29 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Gside: they still wouldn't be laying more eggs. It just means more of the old blood gets passed down. Unless you meant if there were more females than males in a clan...I always assumed that there were typically more males than females. I wonder what Weisman's response to that is? And also about actual "conception" options for same sex couples; would the "only mate with one other in your life" circumstance ever extend to a f/f pair spending three nights in the breeding season with a male partner in order to get pregant? There tend to be excuses to every rule, and you can't generalize a response; it's really a case-to-case matter...but for all I knwo he'll say it never happens *shrug*

and I am reposting this from s8.

[Um... still waiting for a reply on synchronizing for Amazon.com. Has everyone already done it and not said anything? Need ta know, k? ]

I haven't heard anything yet either.

So, I would like to propose OCTOBER 4th as the date to do it. It's a fitting date as the anniversary of the clan waking up, and it gives us time to (attempt to) coordinate the fandom.

What does the rest of the room think?? *pokes TGS as well*

Lynati
Thursday, September 9, 2004 02:38:28 AM
IP: 4.139.18.30

Lynati> <<supposedly a female could manage 5 in a lifetime>>: Assuming they start early and keep going without too many deaths. But then there's no particular reason not to start early.
<<there are other monogamous species out there (wolves, eagles) whose numbers are fine>>: But they can also pump them out more often.
<<Having multiple partners isn't going to affect the number of eggs their biology allows them to have>>: It could with the unbalanced gender numbers thing.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, September 9, 2004 12:00:46 AM
IP: 69.141.212.54

Damien: [I've always had a problem with greg's breeding cycle theory, because with a gargress having AT MOST 3 eggs] Actually, Weisman's theory says 1 every twenty years, not three only. supposedly a female could manage 5 in a lifetime. TGS says only 3.

[usually 2 or 1, and with monogymy standard, can you say extinction...]
I don't see what monogomy has to do with it. there are other monogamous species out there (wolves, eagles) whose numbers are fine. Hell, humans are (supposedly) mostly monogamous. Having multiple partners isn't going to affect the number of eggs their biology allows them to have.

[I mean most animals at least double their numbers per generation (eg 2 parents have 4 kids) otherwise the species goes extinct....]
Yes, and do you know what the death rate for those species are? Usually half the young don't even survive to breed. Gargoyles live an extreme long time. They have no natural predators (barring humans, and that didn't even become a factor until a thousand or so years ago), and a healing ability that makes them unlikely to die of illness or infection. Most animals need those extra offspring to keep their numbers steady; if the Gargoyle population spread as fast as even deer, the environment wouldn't be able to sustain them. you'd have a clan doubling in size and needing to hive off every, what, forty years? A few centuries of that and they'd use up all the resources- food, namely- and then the whole species would probably have to turn cannibal or starve to death.

Sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper. play with the numbers. start with a clan that averages has, say, 30 per generation. obviously, since gargs aren't immortal and age and accidents can take out to even the most resilient of species, the older the generation, the fewer number of gargs will be left. Start doing the math for the breeding season. take into account that you are going to likely lose a couple hatchlings before they reach maturity, but barring a disaster nearly all will make it. And that a few more will vanish in the interim of each season. Gargs probably have a 90% survival rate at the least by the time they first breed. Even if you limit the species to three reproductive seasons, you can see how fast the numbers grow.

Gargs have just enough children (if you consider the average to be two) to keep their species numbers in check. two children to eventually replace two adults. And obviously since the species was doing fine until humans came along to botch everything up and started seeking out clans with intent to destory them, they weren't goign extinct. And they are hardly the only species out there who were doing fine until humans came along, and swung the balance off. Nature can't adapt to us, we don't give it time to, and the Gargoyles best defense- stoen hibernation- became their greatest weakness.

and we've had this rant before. and rarely is one side ever convinced by the other that their way is the right one. *shrug* But my dad specializes in population dynamics, and between that and the fact I paid attention to my ecology classes in both 4th grade and Junior year of college, I've picked up a couple things.
Lynati
Wednesday, September 8, 2004 09:49:06 PM
IP: 4.139.15.22

Ed> Thanks for the info. And I thought our system was needlessly complicated. Reminded me to tell you the last saga in gerrymandering and political redistricting. I think its time we brought some old terms to call this stuff like 'corruption' and 'political machine'. Something is needed to affect change.
Taleweaver
Wednesday, September 8, 2004 07:28:20 PM
IP: 66.81.246.139

I've always had a problem with greg's breeding cycle theory, because with a gargress having AT MOST 3 eggs, usually 2 or 1, and with monogymy standard, can you say extinction...
I mean most animals at least double their numbers per generation (eg 2 parents have 4 kids) otherwise the species goes extinct....
Damien
Wednesday, September 8, 2004 02:08:51 PM
IP: 205.250.224.113

Patrick>>> People down here seem to never bother to learn how to drive in the rain, and it rains nearly all the time here.

There is a discussion in the main station 8 room that I think would be better disccused here since it involves fanverse. The topic is wich do peopl prefer when it comes to breeding cycles..GregW's or Christine's
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
Orlando, Florida, USA
Wednesday, September 8, 2004 01:18:33 PM
IP: 12.78.46.159

It is now raining here. Naturally, since it has been more than a week since the last rain, everyone has forgotten how to drive in it. I saw a four-car fender-bender this morning where the Dodge pickup truck in the number two spot had its front wheels up over the bumper and into the open trunk of the Honday in the number one spot. That definitely earns a few points for style.

90 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Wednesday, September 8, 2004 12:26:03 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Hmm, somebody needs to make a big post to start things rolling after the cr wipe. :-)

**YuGiOh Spoilers**
If you missed the 2nd episode of YuGiOh, you really didn't miss squat. On the other hand, if you missed parts of the 1st episode (wah, wah, I missed it), you probably missed something important.

I actually felt a let-down: Merrick's father. Here we have this big deal made by the legacy had to be carried on by a member of his family, only to discover it amounts to wearing a tattoo on the back. In a way, Merrick's father reminds me of Kiba's step-father.

Speaking of which, I think I need to reexamine the Kiba/YuGi relationship. Is it one-sided? Yep. Was the way Yugi won against Merrick a let-down? Heck no. I don't believe Kiba even understood what that duel was all about. How could Kiba not notice 2 Yugi's on the battle field? Talk about being dense. Kiba giving Yugi a card to help in the duel; Yugi views it as gesture of friendship while Kiba viewed it as a test of Yugi's skill. Who was really right? Yugi was more right. Up to this point, Kiba's pride could have gotten in the way, big time. Really, Kiba could have justificed not helping Yugi to himself, like Kiba did when Yugi was dueling against he rare hunter who had Exodia. Instead, Kiba has gradually growing respect for Yugi, even though he probably will not admit. Why didn't Kiba want to take any credit for Yugi's victory over Merrick? Yugi was willing to admit that to himself.

Kiba's reasoning for destroying the island had nothing to do with winning/losing the tournament. Instead, it was purely emotional and symbolic. He literally wanted to put his dealings with his step-father behind him. The physical presence of the island was a last reminder and he put off destroying the island until he thought he was emotionally ready to move completely out of his stepfather's shadow. Of course, Kiba being an orphan, I have to wonder if Kiba has ever participated in any fundraisers for orphans. Or what his response would be if somebody approached him about that?

**end YuGiOh Spoilers**

**Personal stuff/real mushy**

Unlike Kiba, I have a good example (my mom) to think about. Do I ever want to step out of my mom's shadow? Really, when I think about it, I don't. My mom's legacy is something that I can be exceptionally (is that strong enough of a word?) proud of.

My mom was very humble and very kind. I've been told that I have enough favors for all the nice things that my mom did that it would be hard to use them up. (not to say that my mom did things to gather favors; she did those things because she was that kind.) Dealings with my mom has left me with a good nature.

If you guys ever wonder why I seem both nice/mean at the same time, it's because I've also had the moron around: my dad.

On the other hand, most of my meanness comes from dealings with him. I don't even like the idea of me and him thinking apart and don't even want to be in his shadow.

**end mushy stuff**
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, September 8, 2004 02:56:41 AM
IP: 67.14.195.47

Le 10th!
Fire Storm & Lady Mystic
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 08:15:56 PM
IP: 68.248.55.22

9th.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 05:17:35 PM
IP: 69.141.212.54

Ocho!!
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 05:02:37 PM
IP: 161.31.67.121

Lucky Seven! (7)
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 02:56:48 PM
IP: 66.94.198.79

6!
Thanks, Spacebabie, but Frances is already in Tennessee!
Sppllloosh!
kathy
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 02:38:36 PM
IP: 66.82.9.11

Fifth!
Leo
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 01:47:53 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

4 on the floor (jeeze I only seem to show up for the count down)
Damien
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 01:14:09 PM
IP: 205.250.224.113

And then there were THREE.

We're supposed to get rain up here in Ohio late tonight and tomorrow from the remants of Frances.

91 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 12:22:33 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

:::Trhows rainwater into the room:::

That's from Frances

Top ten.
Spacebabie
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 10:54:34 AM
IP: 12.78.46.87

Wow I be number UNO!!!
Revel
Tuesday, September 7, 2004 10:51:56 AM
IP: 68.119.237.207