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GJ and lain- One year, almost hard to believe, but then you two have been living to gether for longer than that and been hopping over the voarder so many times it must feel like you have been married longer.

Congrats to Coyote and Ravyn

As far as response to the fan hookups, well having something as simple as a love for a showe is a great building block for something to have in common. It often leads to other interest. You both don't have to enjoy everything together, but having soemthing is what makes it last.

*glomps Spacebabie*
Revel - [samrx5@msn.com]
Monday, January 10, 2005 10:13:15 AM
IP: 68.119.237.207

Ravyn and Coyote> Congrats and may you have a lifetime of love, respect, and joy together! :)

Gunjack and Lain> Congrats on your one year anniversary! It doesn't seem like a year has already gone by. One down and a zillion more to go! :)

I'm feelin' the love ;)
Jan
Monday, January 10, 2005 07:34:44 AM
IP: 12.215.182.17

HoE> <<"Ice" and "Pork Chop Sandwiches" are my personal favorites>>: I prefer more of an anti-message in mine. Something like "Stay in drugs, don't do milk, and drink your school".
<<What exactly is mutant mistletoe? Any examples of it in the archives?>>: It's from about three Christmases back, I think. A bit of a large scale RP. I seem to remember people going at cross purposes near the end of it.

Gunjack> <<the Kodama wiseguys>>: You don't want to have plant based powers when the main character controls fire. Oh, wait you mean the clickety little alien things, not the creepy guy from Recca.

Welcome back, Seri.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, January 9, 2005 11:22:35 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Welcome back, Seri.
...so, how about dragging him into the fandom? ; )
Lynati
Sunday, January 9, 2005 09:57:56 PM
IP: 70.243.160.134

*reappears after years-long hiatus*

ANOTHER fandom wedding? Congratulations, Ravyn and Coyote!

I'm getting married myself on Oct 1, to another garg fan, though I didn't meet him through the fandom. :*(
Seri Wavelength
Sunday, January 9, 2005 09:56:44 PM
IP: 24.152.220.136

Congrats to Ravyn and Coyote.
Spacebabie
Sunday, January 9, 2005 12:03:42 PM
IP: 69.161.157.101

Congrats to the newlyweds. I've lost count of how many fandom marriages there have been.

200 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Patrick
Sunday, January 9, 2005 11:30:12 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

***** TGS CR INFORMATION UPDATE *****


CR ARCHIVE:

The 2005 Archive, including the week of December 27, 2004 through January 3, 2005, has been added to the Comment Room Archive.

2005 Archive:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2005/

Framed Archive:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/frames.html


CR MEMBERS:

DPH's profile has been revised. The statistics and calendar pages were updated accordingly.

Member Information:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/

DPH's Profile:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/profiles/dph.html


CONTACT INFORMATION:

The email address of one of the TGS CR Co-Administrators, Mara "Shinigami" Cordova, has been changed.

Admins Page:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/admins.html


***** END UPDATE *****
Lady Mystic - [<--- UPDATED !!!]
Head Admin of TGS CR Information
Sunday, January 9, 2005 08:40:24 AM
IP: 68.21.36.28

Ravyn & Coyote the Bando: CONGRATULATIONS!!! **LM hugs the newlyweds**
Lady Mystic & Fire Storm
Dearborn, MI
Sunday, January 9, 2005 07:34:05 AM
IP: 68.21.36.28

The newleyweds - Congrats!

...Forgot to mention it in here, but last Tuesday was the first aniversary for Lain and I. One whole year, and the chaos continues.

HoE><<What exactly is mutant mistletoe? Any examples of it in the archives?>> It's back there somewhere. Someone made the mistake of putting up mistletoe, and the inimitble Wilek decided to have some fun with it. His "fun" caused it to grow insectile legs, suckers, and possibly several eyes, whereupon it began wandering around the room and getting shot at a lot. It went by the name of Nicholi, and joined up as #3... Thing ...in the now semi-retired Valentine Crime Syndicate and Bookie's Association. It speaks in pleasent trills, and gets along well with the Kodama wiseguys.

...It's around christmastime a year or three ago. Good times all around.

...Was gonna do other replies, but I doesn't feel likes it. Nyah!
Gunjack "Parappa" Valentine
Sunday, January 9, 2005 06:06:51 AM
IP: 205.250.217.92

Mr. and Mrs. Coyote the Bando: Cheers!

Mecord and Dezi: Interesting links. And Dezi, I know all about stupid. I still watch "Kenya" at least once a week. Anyway, here's a link most of the people in the CR have probably already seen. "Ice" and "Pork Chop Sandwiches" are my personal favorites.

[anyone who hasn't read "Hungry Shadows Part One" should skip this part]
Taleweaver: I didn't think it odd that Reeves would agree to harbor Kappel. He recognized from Kappel's story that Kappel was probably under some form of dark magic, so I think his hospitality was based more on the fact that he wanted to learn what sort of magic was influencing Kappel, since the Black Arts seemed to be his hobby. Plus, he didn't want to drive Bouchard and Bouchard's journal away, so he decided that he'd need to be hospitable to Bouchard's new friend. And I got the impression that Reeves and Bouchard "falling into each other" was not so much from a desire to help, but rather because it suited Reeves's purposes. He wanted to learn how to use the stone and figured an alliance with the man who might have the key to understanding it was the best course of action. Kappel was just something unexpected that Reeves was prepared to tolerate in order to get a look at the journal.

[okay, everyone else can resume reading now]

Christine: What exactly is mutant mistletoe? Any examples of it in the archives?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Sunday, January 9, 2005 01:03:29 AM
IP: 69.175.64.201

Well, I'm rather stupid tonight. Burned myself taking a probe thermometer out of a meatloaf (after the probe had been in the oven for a goodly length of time).

Coyote and Ravyn> Congratulations.

Vinnie> <<Cograts>>: Sounds like a nickname for a MechE. And it's appropriate.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, January 9, 2005 12:07:16 AM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Congrats yo!
Dezi
Saturday, January 8, 2005 09:13:15 PM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Congratulations, Coyote and Ravyn!
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, January 8, 2005 06:40:08 PM
IP: 4.244.12.146

Coyote/Ravyn:> Congratulations!
Leo
Saturday, January 8, 2005 03:24:49 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Ah that should be Congrats!

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Saturday, January 8, 2005 02:01:53 PM
IP: 64.112.202.48

Cograts!

*Sweeps up rice and other wedding day leftovers*
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Saturday, January 8, 2005 02:01:01 PM
IP: 64.112.202.48

Starsinger enters throwing lots of rice. Congratulations to Coyote and Raven. You two are just sooooo sneaky.

Starsinger
Starsinger
Saturday, January 8, 2005 01:51:02 PM
IP: 209.240.205.61

Happy New Year, everyone!

Here's wishing everyone here the best in the year ahead. :)

Sorry that my posting in this room has pretty much dwindled down to lurking now and then, but I had to come back with BIG NEWS ...

... Coyote the Bando and I are now ... married!!!!

On December 29th, 2004, we were married in a Spanish mission-style chapel in the foothills of Tucson, Arizona. The ceremony was short, sweet, and absolutely beautiful. :) I can't complain about anything ... there were no major mishaps or problems! I am still waiting on pictures but please let me know if anyone is interested in seeing them.

Crazy news, huh? I still can't believe we actually went through with it myself. :) It was tons of fun once it was all over, though, and now comes the hard part ... finding out just how many things I now have to change my last name on ... ye gawds, there's a ton of stuff out there that I have to change ... ;)

Anyway, take care everyone, and I hope that you all have a wonderful year! It's great to see this room still going strong, and equally great to see some old familiar faces still here too. :)
Ravyn the Bando (formerly Ravyn Maza)
Saturday, January 8, 2005 12:17:09 PM
IP: 4.157.38.47

File this under 'nobody asked you'.

Review: 'Hungry Shadows: Part 1'

First, the praise: This was a solid piece of writing. I am impressed by the detail, both with the background and with the characters. Bouchard really stood out with his bowler and wire wrim glasses. And lets not forget Fiona with her twin pistols and snappy fedora.

I think it was a good choice in making the story simple and direct. It allowed things to pick up whenever there was a lull.

I add my sentiments to others who have suggested submitting this story as an independent work for publication.

Now the flaws, Kappel, Reeves and Bouchard's falling into each other felt forced. Especially Reeves part in it. Its hard to believe such a sour and generally disagreeable man like Reeves will open his home to a stranger based on a story.

A question that popped up that was never answered. Did Kappel kill Ancel? That was never clear. Kappel's dreams is a great mix of metaphoric language and memories, so good that I couldn't tell if what he saw was memory of past deeds.

I agree with others, that this didn't feel like a TGS story. The connection to the main cycle was very thin. While I can easily see Demona in Paris; Demona using African blood magic was too much. Everything we've seen of Demona indicates a European gargoyle. Enslaving a human too her will, I can believe, though it seems she would be more interested in wiping out humanity than controlling one part of it.

But overall, this didn't stop me from enjoying the story. I do want to know what happens to Kappel and why Demona sought to possess him in the first place. I guess I'll have to wait for Part two. I just hope it won't be too long in coming
Taleweaver
Saturday, January 8, 2005 09:24:11 AM
IP: 209.179.168.54

Ok you guys have prolly already seen this one, but I had to post. hehehehehhe
Its dumb but its sooo funny-stupid.
Dezi - [<-clickie for stupid-funny!]
Saturday, January 8, 2005 01:31:11 AM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Daniel Johnson> <<Coincidence or conspiracy?>>: This is the internet, of course it's a conspiracy.
<<Pretty sure I've used it here before>>: Well, the chances of my forgetting it are rather high.

Leo> <<posts silly E-bay auction>>: Gah! Midi.

Mecord> <<http://thefifthdistrict.com/potter/>>: Rather reminds me of the Potter Puppet Pals. Bother bother bother bother.

Green Baron> <<And the top three were Hong Kong, Singapore, and Luxembourg>>: Well, Luxembourg will rent out the entire country for a Bar Mitzvah.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, January 7, 2005 11:18:11 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Greetings all. Today is my final day on the peninsula. Tommorrow, I will be flying out to New Orleans from Incheon Airport. I will be making stops in Narita Airport and San Francisco (also the title of a Village People song). For my final night, I'l be singing karaoke to the works fo Barry Manilowe and Billy Joel among others.

and in 12 days I will be with my beloved Karen.

Gunjack> I'll continue the discussion when I am back in the Big Easy. For some rference, I think we have different definitions of altruism and you are also referring to corporatism in examples of free market capitalism, but no big deal.

On a note of interest, the US is in decline.

According to the Heritage Foundation's Report, the US is the 13th most Economically free nation in the world. This is the first time America has left the top ten, and this is a disgrace for our so-called conservatives that this has happened.

Congratulations to Estonia for being Number 4. Estonia was only recently an opressed Soviet Republic, but now they have joined the EU and climbed the freedom charts to Number 4. And the top three were Hong Kong, Singapore, and Luxembourg in that order, and being beaten by them is nothing to be ashamed of. In addition, Chile is right ahead of the US as number 11. If you consider Iceland a European nation, then Chile is the most Economically free nation in not only Latin America, but the Western Hemsiphere. Congratulations Chile.

While not in the Free category (but in the mostly free category), Botswana is the most Economically free nation in Africa and Bahrain is the most Economically free nation in the Middle East. Both are more Economically free than France, too.

Canada comes in at Number 16 and is in the free category, which is good. Also, their highest Federal incoem tax rate is 29%, so Calgary and Edmonton are looking mighty good now (no provincial taxes which I guess are a big factor in high Canadian taxes) :) In even better good news, Ireland is number 5, while the UK is number 7, and Ireland's per capita income in higher than Britain's. This is a great moment for all of us with Irish descent.

A big shocker is the Scandinavia is so economically free. Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, and Finland all made the Free category, with Iceland coming in right after Denmark at Number 8. Also, the anglosphere can take pride with Ireland, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore (English is an official language), the US, and Canada all making the Free category.

Now, on the other side, North Korea is teh most opressed nation, followed by Burma, Libya, Cuba, Iran, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Haiti, Laos, and a couple of stans, including Uzbekistan. Some otehrs tehy coudln't get data on like Iraq, Sudan, and Serbia, and Afghanistan isn't on there at all.

Here is a link to the data http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/

And tommorrow begins the Green Baron's North American Tour II
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Camp Humphreys, Korea
Friday, January 7, 2005 09:41:19 PM
IP: 61.77.43.13

oh, and if you watch long enough strange things happen.
like glowing wands and a green dress...
Mecord
Friday, January 7, 2005 01:40:42 PM
IP: 67.42.16.27

Okay, you all know the Badger song. Here's a new twist. It may not drive you insane like the old one, but it may induce a fit of giggling.
http://thefifthdistrict.com/potter/
Mecord - [<=clicky! you know you want to]
Friday, January 7, 2005 01:32:36 PM
IP: 67.42.16.27

<< Random comment: we just went through December without any mutant mistletoe hanging around in the cr. Wow!! >>

Guess we'll just have to trot out something extra-special for Valentine's Day, then ... cue the mutant cherubs!
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, January 7, 2005 09:02:54 AM
IP: 67.136.137.124

Daniel - What? I wasn't planning on posting until after I got some zzz's but you leared me unto a post. How is my life going? I experienced some Christmas miracles:

1) I was riding with my brother and he ran across a ice patch and literally turned the vehicle 180 degrees around
2)I spent an afternoon with my dad without having an argument. Even though others were present, to spend time with time without an argument is a miracle.

I bought Computron, a transformer combiner. (set me back a little bit on money from other things I was planning on buying)

I bought the Gargoyles Season 1 DVD. Hey, 1)did you know about that? 1a)did you buy a copy?

I'm the leader of a group working on a gargoyles card game - roughly based on Yugioh the card game. I recently bought a pc version of the Yugioh game and am finding it highly addictive.

I'm still in college, planning on graduating in Spring 2006.

I hear you're married, Daniel Johnson.

Just spent . . too many hours discussing Yugioh with Tariki Freak.

The biggest suprise: I'm still a member of tgs after all this time.

Work on 'upgrading' my hologram is nearly complete. Was he around when you were here last?

Random comment: we just went through December without any mutant mistletoe hanging around in the cr. Wow!!

I have a pretty long rant about Yugioh, the card game and tv show coming. I'm saving it for when the hologram comes back so I accidently break the old rules about too much rp in a post.

I surived my attempt at driving on ice - I braved the weather to pick up Computron from the post office.

My email address finally changed; I deleted old dph_of_rules@yahoo.com - it's alternate_dph instead.

Now, I've already experienced a rough emotional winter; just gotta surive the rest of this month. See my profile for why this month is always hard.
dph
AR, USA
Friday, January 7, 2005 05:02:26 AM
IP: 67.14.195.9

*posts silly E-bay auction*

Leo - [<-Silly E-bay auction]
Friday, January 7, 2005 12:51:12 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Weird that I'd reappear at the same time as Doug. Coincidence or conspiracy? Hmmm.

DPH: Nice to see you again. How's life treating you?

Gside: <<Huzzah, and I see you have your own domain.>> I've had that for a while now. Pretty sure I've used it here before. I run my own mail server at home. Makes spam filtering a snap. :)

Green Baron: Hey! How's army life?
Daniel Johnson - [daniel@daniel-johnson.org]
Ocean Grove, NJ
Friday, January 7, 2005 12:02:23 AM
IP: 138.89.176.48

Dezi> <<all of Dijonay's nine siblings are named after a spice rack>>: The precedent has been set by Rumiko Takahashi's Herb, Mint, Lime, and Saffron. And let's not forget just about the entire Sorcerer Hunters cast (Carrot, Gateau, Tira Misu, Eclair...)

Greg> <<I think Demona would use a mace. It's a lot messier and more fun>>: Headshot or play with them first?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Thursday, January 6, 2005 11:12:36 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

I don't know if the Canmore motivation in going after gargoyles is racism so much as the "family feud syndrome", a la Montagues and Capulets, Hatfields and McCoys, etc. That is, the big reason why they hate gargoyles is because Demona is one (though I'm certain that there's some xenophobia mixed in there somewhere).

Of course, the Canmore hatred of gargoyles didn't even originate from racism so much as from politics. Remember, the real reason why Duncan and Canmore were after Demona and her clan was because they were Macbeth's allies; this was really a struggle over the succession to the Scottish throne that gargoyles happened to get mixed up in. (Though Duncan and Canmore didn't seem to like gargoyles much, anyway.) Though the Canmores wound up losing sight of that (I doubt that, by Jason, Robyn, and Jon's time they even remembered that they were descended from Scottish royalty) to hunt Demona over mere vendettas (while probably not even being aware of Macbeth's existence).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, January 6, 2005 06:50:01 PM
IP: 4.244.12.254

::Peeks in from class::

Well, I think Demona would use a mace. It's a lot messier and more fun ;)

::Back to class::
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, January 6, 2005 06:13:34 PM
IP: 199.93.82.164

Vinnie: Goliath might bite your kneecaps off. Demona, however, would probably use a particle cannon or rocket launcher or something in that vein. She does have a fondness for big guns (please let's keep all double entendres to ourselves; we're adults, not hatchlings). Of course, she'll shoot you only if you're lucky. If you're not, then probably she would use some extremely nasty spell on you.

Still, it is an interesting connection. But if anyone could be compared to Ahab, it would probably have to be Gillecomgain. Ahab was obsessed with Moby Dick because Moby Dick took his leg. Gillecomgain's vendetta against gargoyles also stemmed from a physical disfigurement, among other things. But Demona scarring him was probably the catalyst, as we saw in part one of "Hunter's Moon." Most of the descendants of Duncan, however, were simply taught by their parents to hate gargoyles, even though they had no reason to. Well, after a point. Duncan's son had his reasons for hating them, but I'd say for a majority of Canmore's descendants, it's the saying that "children are not born racist, but must be taught racism" coming into play. I've read the script of the aborted scene from "Hunter's Moon" on Greg's website, where Elisa asks Jason what started the hunt, and Jason can't answer. It's a shame that never made it past designs (though Greg said they did record dialogue with the actors). It was an interesting read, though.
Harvester of Eyes
Thursday, January 6, 2005 04:44:07 PM
IP: 69.175.64.201

Patrick: What's she gonna do bite my kneecaps off? Demona isn't even a three demensional character, she only exists in animation. Although I'd love to see her try!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! How many demensions does Demona have to her illustrations again? (2)TWO.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Thursday, January 6, 2005 02:47:43 PM
IP: 64.112.203.142

Greg: I did do a search through the archives. I guess I must have missed it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Thursday, January 6, 2005 01:30:03 PM
IP: 69.175.64.201

HoE> I saw your latest question in ASK GREG. The one about why Laura San Giacomo wasn't credited for playing Fox in the episode. Dude, he's answered that one a lot, and it's in the FAQ.

Basically, her agent thought voicing in an afternoon cartoon wouldn't look good, and that she'd one day go on to be a big, major super star. In my opinion, the guy was insane.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, January 6, 2005 12:12:06 PM
IP: 141.155.158.144

Double post...

<< Has anyone ever thought of Demona as a White Whale, like in Moby Dick? >>

Vinnie... if you're brave enough to call her a whale to her face... well, it'll be nice to have known ya. ;)
Patrick
Thursday, January 6, 2005 07:52:02 AM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Todd > Okay, I may be a bit off on my geography. I checked Expedia for flights between Edinburgh and Paris, and it said the distance was 550 miles. So if a gargoyle could average around 40 mph gliding, it would take about 14 hours to make the trip... about one night's journey. Of course, this doesn't factor in prevailing winds, which would make the west to east route a little faster than the east to west.

204 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Patrick
Thursday, January 6, 2005 07:50:15 AM
IP: 66.93.14.153

PATRICK - <And if the winds are right, it's probably not more than half an evening's glide from Scotland.>

Demona could glide from Paris to Scotland that quickly? I know that one can travel more quickly by air than on foot, but that's still amazing.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, January 6, 2005 06:49:43 AM
IP: 4.244.12.79

*******NOT REALLY A SPOILER*******


Has anyone ever thought of Demona as a White Whale, like in Moby Dick?
I was just wondering because while reading of Fiona Canmore in the newest story it occured to me that the Canmore obsecession is very much Captain Ahab's obsesscion. One could almost say that the Canmore's are the children of Ahab, if of course Herman Melville had written a sequel.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Thursday, January 6, 2005 05:48:21 AM
IP: 64.112.202.132

WOO!!
Just got the confirmation E-mail..
My dvd is in the mail...
so either tomorrow or Friday I'll have it in my possesion!!!!
finalement!
Damien
Thursday, January 6, 2005 02:55:21 AM
IP: 205.250.244.212

Todd: As I read Merlin's dialogue in my head, I find myself giving him a voice that sounds like Nicol Williamson. But not goofy, like he sounded in "Excalibur"; more like his character from "Spawn."
Harvester of Eyes
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Thursday, January 6, 2005 01:33:09 AM
IP: 69.175.64.201

:sorry double post:

hehehe The characters have funny names like Sticky Webb, Sunset Boulvardez, and all of Dijonay's nine siblings are named after a spice rack! I dunno, its just pulled off so smoothly for such ridiculous names, that it works. :)
Dezi
Thursday, January 6, 2005 12:40:57 AM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Yay!
ok, This is kinda random, but I just want to admit I'm completely hooked on Disney's The Proud Family. I dunno, something about it, its not exactly little kiddish, but not overly adult, and just comes at stuff from all angles and is just....good.
The characters are good, its funny. I'm just hooked.
hehe, the character Papi, he says funny random insults in Spanish, all smooth-like, then gives this wha hahaha! kinda laugh. Its hilarious!

Ok, commercial break over. :D

...I'm sooooo hooked!
Dezi
Thursday, January 6, 2005 12:37:00 AM
IP: 68.57.196.146

HoE> <<well, four; but two of them share the same handle>>: Gunjack does have his own handle, but since they're sharing a connection...

Soacebabie> <<Last night I watched some anime on Pippin>>: Sure it isn't Merry? They're interchangeable.
<<Flame of Recca>>: I root for Domon. And I recommend getting the manga, even if only for the way Domon defeats the telepath. So utterly wrong.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, January 5, 2005 10:43:50 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Almost Spoiler Free Review For Latest Story

Pretty good depsite the small types here and htere. The auction scene did have a tendancy to drag on there for a few minutes.

I loved the udnertone of the story. I feel like it's leading to something big...and I enjoyed seeing Fiona Canmore.

*************END Almost Free Spolier Review*********

Last night I watched some anime on Pippin...AKA my New Laptop. Saikano and Flame of Recca
Spacebabie
Wednesday, January 5, 2005 02:43:00 PM
IP: 69.161.157.101

<< <<Demona just seems to have this connection with Paris. Good call on the part of the writers for making use of that.>> She does, doesn't she? What the heck is up with that? >>

Simple. There's a lot of gothic-style architecture in Paris, and so many buildings with gargoyles on them that it would be difficult to notice one more. If Demona was looking for a place where she could turn to stone every day and essentially render herself a needle in a haystack, Paris was a great choice. And if the winds are right, it's probably not more than half an evening's glide from Scotland.

205 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Patrick
Wednesday, January 5, 2005 12:25:15 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

HARVESTER OF EYES - Thanks; I'm glad that you enjoyed it. The one problem with that approach, though, was that we gave a lot of people the impression that you had to be extremely knowledgeable about the Arthurian legend to work on "Pendragon", which wound up making it the most difficult spin-off to recruit for.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, January 5, 2005 07:42:04 AM
IP: 4.244.12.252

Well, my little brother finally sent me a gmail.com invite, so I'm going to be very gradually switching from my aol account to that, hence the reason for my new e-mail address. I still plan to use AIM, though, since I chat regularly with at least three people from this CR (well, four; but two of them share the same handle).

Mecord: I read over the post containing my Doug/Xanatos analogy, and I think I might have been drunk when I posted. I'm a "friendly" drunk, hence the reason for my saying what I said. But still, as Hemingway once said, "always do sober what you said you'd do while drunk. That'll teach you to keep your mouth shut." You are right, though. Demona works as a better analogy. I feel like a fool for not picking up on that.

Todd: I've just started Pendragon, actually. I read as far as "The Last Enchantment," before the first story of "Untold Tales" was posted. So I took a break to read that. But I plan to go ahead with reading Season One until Part Two of "Hungry Shadows" comes out. So far, I enjoy the style of it. Arthur's awakened in a modern time, after all the legends about him and his knights have been written, and I enjoyed how "The Last Enchantment" kept switching between past and present. It's like Arthur is taking apart what's been written, saying, "here's what really happened." Not literally, but just through the flashbacks he has. This is difficult to do, especially since you're dealing with a character as steeped in lore as Arthur Pendragon, but so far, you've done quite well.

I've been trying to go through the saga as chronologically as possible. Of course, since Gargoyles and Pendragon meshed in the second season, I already know a few things. But despite the way we left Arthur and his knights in "Seeds of Change," I want to read Season One before I read forward. Now it seems you've given me incentive to work my way up to Season Four. ( ;

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Wednesday, January 5, 2005 01:13:52 AM
IP: 69.175.64.201

Greg> <<you should see the grudges I've held in RL also>>: So you're easy to grudge. Just makes for a doubly easy internet grudge.

Gunjack> <<have you EVER heard of a corp giving its third-world workforce a raise?>>: Not specifically, but it has to happen sometime. Are there any charts of pay over time?

DPH> <<I really, really hate thin-crusted pizzas>>: Heretic.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 11:15:55 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Gunjack - *smirks* How do you fix the problem, then? Power corrupts. If you give unions too much power, they forget their purpose: protect worker's safety and keep management honest when dealing with workers. [Union between management and consumer is bad for labor; union between management and labor is bad for the consumer; union between consumer and labor would wipe out businesses and incentatives to start new business] Annual pay raises are optional, as long as profits keep going, SMALL pay raises (for EVERYBODY, especially MANAGEMENT) are in order. Cutting the number of employees then giving management a huge bonus SHOULD be illegal. I don't like to hear about problems without hearing about solutions.

I really, really hate thin-crusted pizzas. I know that's an off the wall comment, but the other day, I accidently picked up 2 thin crust pizzas. :-(

Work on dph's hologram v2.0 is practically complete. As soon as I work up a good intro, he's going to be back in commission. Everybody should love him, at least parts of him. ;-)

Saturday night, an unfortunate event happenned at my house. The mirror in my main bathroom . . fell and broke on its own accord.

Todd - <Actually, Fiona Canmore could be considered a familiar character, to anyone who's been to the most recent Gatherings and heard a certain "Team Atlantis" tape that Greg Weisman brought there.> Or even bothered to keep up with Ask Greg. That's how I'm familiar with Fiona Canmore.

**TGS SPOILERS**
Absolutely loved the story, especially the work for POV. the 1st time I was in Comp II, we had to do literary analysis and I made a comment in my head about loving the play on POV. I really, really loved the use of POV in this story because of its great effectiveness. It kept me in the dark, which I loved. I reallly hope other readers put 1 and 1 together to figure out unstated facts in the story.


Lynati - Could you have made the reference any MORE obsecure? I consider it a giant jump (possibly setting a worl record) to get the reference.
**END TGS SPOILERS**
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 10:23:53 PM
IP: 67.14.195.40

*reads things briefly*
I agree with Greg. I was here for a lot of it too...and i have to tell you, there is little incentive to sit back and watch.

Shade and Sweet Water
Archwolf
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 08:15:53 PM
IP: 24.54.134.129

I've been thinking about the whole "Doug issue" lately and I think the reference to David Xanatos was close, but perhaps a little erronious. Xanatos may or may not have changed his character, but he was trying to fix some mistakes. We can hope for a similar change in Doug, but there's still a better comparison. In Gargoyle society, if a gargoyle turns against the clan or whatever that gargoyle can be banished. Essentially, that's what happened to Doug. So here I can make the comparison to Demona.
Demona betrayed the clan and was essentially banished (though with less formality). Still, many a fan has pondered the conditions in which Demona could return to the clan. There are also conditions that must be met by Doug.
I agree with Robby's assesment of the situation. The conditions were never met, so three years or ten, Doug can't return before he appologizes. Even Goliath had to 'fess up to old Renard that he was responsible for destroying the first airship. But Robby also hinted (or blatantly stated more like) that Doug should never return. I can't agree with that on principle. I know feelings were hurt and the aftermath cascaded into a mess we are only recently beginning to recover, but as a community drawn together by the Gargoyles I believe we should try to be more accepting. I know an open-arm reception is out of the question (Greg's response reminds me of Brooklyn when Demona shows up). I'm suggesting that if Doug wishes to return, we open an avenue for him, starting with a public CR appology and individual e-mails to those that ended up suffering because of the subsequent disruption.
Green Baron mentioned that David Xanatos is a fictituous character. So? If we feign to agree with the concepts and ideals in Gargoyles, we should show it. Let the administrators set conditions, ones that we could agree on, and leave the rest up to Doug.
*jumps off soap box* Well, that's all I got to say about that.
Mecord
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 07:05:29 PM
IP: 67.42.16.27

HoE - Thanks for the review. It does the heart good, lemme tell ya... :D

<<Demona just seems to have this connection with Paris. Good call on the part of the writers for making use of that.>> She does, doesn't she? What the heck is up with that?

<<One small issue I have, though: the style was very good, but a few of the typos confused me. Especially in the auction, a lot of the typos made me wonder if the story was in past or present tense.>> How much do I suck? THIS MUCH! ; )

<<But Lain explained that to me, and I understand where she's coming from. I've been there myself. In any case, I'm looking forward to reading Part Two.>>

It's on the way. Working on it right now, in fact.

Green Baron><<These philosophers are not on top.>> If we could examine their finances, I'm fairly sure we would find that all of them are of above-average wealth, and in any case all seem to reside in America, or at least the First World. Hence, On Top.

<<Plus the companies that I woudl feel shaft me are tied to the Feds and can get away with more without facing market reprecussions.>>

Wal-Mart? Routine time-theft from employees, employment of illegal immigrant labor at illegal wages, and manipulation of markets (operating a store at a loss temporarily to drive competitors out of business, and then jacking prices back up when the competition dies out). ...And yet, Wal Mart continues to succeed.

<<...so the sellers sold outside of town, and at first they charged high prices, but then others started selling at this profitable market, driving prices lower until they more closely resembled the standard market prices.>> But again, this assumes that the consumers have enough means to "shop around" (probably from insurance and government disaster relief), and thus are not truly desperate. When they lack such means, the situation is somewhat different; see below.

<<Now, on a semi-related note, my choice of aid for the Tsunami victims is an organization called Heifer International www.heifer.org, which does more to address long-term needs and promote self-sufficiency.>> Are those the people who buy livestock for the people they help? Those guys are cool.

<<I have no right to use force in demanding sexual favors of Lain, but she ha sthe right to kill me if I try to make such demands of her..and you also have that right to kill me in that circumstance, as I don't see Lain as the killing type.>> Agreed. And don't you forget it. *eyes him narrowly, fingering the Cz*

...Humor aside, the above example is perfectly true, but it isn't what you were claiming. We all agree that, faced with an agressor, one is free to defend oneself. The question is different, though; what, other than fear of reprisal, restricts the agressor? If the victim is helpless and incapable of defending itself, and if you stand to gain from attacking, what other than misguided altruism would restrain you?

<<...and basically if you take what you want by force soemone can do the same to you...>> The logic seems weak here; yes, of course others might attack you, and yes, of course your potential victims can defend themselves... So you can cooperate, and get your way half the time if you're lucky, or you can DOMINATE, and get your way ALL the time. Given the above, why shouldn't you just get a big enough gun to ensure that you cannot be attacked OR resisted?

<<And when are these times.>> As I will attempt to demonstrate below, FMC works well when all three sides have enough resources to hold a bargaining position. When one side loses its ability to bargain, whether through external control or sheer desperation, the system flies out of balance. Communism unbalances the system by trying to control everyone equally; FMC seems to unbalance it by squeezing the labor.

<<Batista to Castro>> ...Not too sharp on this one, but I don't think Castro is actually all that bad, especially compared to, say, Allawi in Iraq, or Karzai in Afghanistan... Arguement for another day, I suppose. In any case...

<< So what system should replace it?>> To some extent, I like the current one, but keep in mind that there IS no perfect system. People being what they are, any system can be corrupted. In any case, I think Unions, Tariffs, and protectionism all have their place. The Corps have more than enough power; without some method of balancing that power, their pursuit of profit will harm the rest of society long-term.

Basicly, I believe in voluntary altruism. It is, I believe, the only possible foundation for a livable society. This "utilitarian" brand of athiesm suffers the same problems as all the other Athiesms; if you are all that matters, why should you refrain from causing harm to others for your own profit? That is a question that these gentlemen simply cannot answer, and so I find them absurd.

Power corrupts. To prevent that corruption, power must be balanced, whether it is held by government, corperations, banks, or mobs in the street. Failure to provide that balance leads to misery. As far as I can see, FMC is an ideology advanced by one powerful interest (business) to justify the casting off of all balancing restraints. Their explanation of how this will benefit all parties does not stand up to logical scrutiny, and neither do their basic philosophical tenants.

<<The question is what will the Cratchitts do once they win?>> ...Most likely, they'll become scrooges themselves, all according to the sacred precepts of Naked Self-Interest. Selfishness is not now, never was, and never will be a positive influence on Man. Properly diluted and restrained, it can be beneficial, much like an Ox.... But that doesn't mean you should let the Ox run mad in your home, does it?

<<It could also be due to the socialist policies of his country.>> Canada has socialist policies, yet its ecenomy seems to be doing great. America has some socialist policies, but I'd argue that the Nation's current sorry state has less to do with socialism and more to do with the vagaries of the unrestrained Free Market; to whit, the CORPS are the ones looting.

<<BTW, did you take any Econ classes in College?>> Everything I know about Economics, I learned from PJ O'Rourke's "Eat the Rich".

...It doesn't take a degree to see logical fallacies, though.

<<I may ahve lost exactly what you are saying unless you are referring to businessmen>> ...My appologies; I was rushed. I shall try to explain more clearly.

*********Hypothetical Construct (it's a biggie)************

FMC has positives and negatives; the gentlemen in question are in a prime position to capitalize on the former and avoid the latter, and so they prefer the system. Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten that the negatives even exist.

<<I disagree. In the short-term, you can pull it off and then you've lost credibility.>>

Um, would a century count as "long-term"? I seem to remember some corperate history in South America, and the derivation of the term "bananna republic"... In any case, it's simple to continue the shaft indefinately. Generally, it works like this:

The merchant wants maxiumum profit, the consumer wants maximum value, and the labor wants maximum pay. All three are diametricly opposed; generally speaking, for one side to get more of what they want, another side has to lose. The only exception is when a revolutionary method is developed that boosts ALL sides simultaniously... but then the method distributes across the entire market, and the pattern returns to its old tension.

Now, this system is largely controlled by the Merchant. He's the one who decides what to sell to the consumer, and he's the one that decides what labor to employ, and being a good FMC, his first concern is his own profit. His second concern is the Consumer, since he can't make his money unless the Consumer prefers him to all the other merchants. Therefore, he has a dilemma; how to maximize both profit for himself, and value for the consumer simultaniously. Value costs money, and profit IS money... and that money has to come from somewhere, doesn't it?

The answer, of course, is to take it away from Labor. Fire those over-paid, pampered American workers, and outsource overseas where expectations are... rather lower.

The ideal location has a stable, repressive government and a destitute population. Ingratiating oneself with said repressive government is essential, whether through kickbacks, favors, or outright bribes; a few million in the pocket of a senior official is cheaper in the long-run than a dollar or two more per hour for the workers; yeah, the workers might complain, but that's what the local soldiers are for, right? Thus, you ensure that it's in the government's own interest to cut down on "civil unrest" (strikes, protests, whatever), and most of the workers are too busy scrambling for the two bucks a week you're paying to do much complaining.

<<But to get back to your example, if a company offered such conditions, a rival would offer a better deal, followed by another one, and the services would get cheaper and cheaper.>>

Would they? Why? The company has supply and demand on their side; you DEMAND to live, and in the example above, they control, in effect, the supply of life. If you refuse their deal, you die and they go find some other desperate soul; the tsunami hit several countries, and it's not like you're the only person dying of thirst.

Remove Altruism completely; there are no charities helping those people. They will die, by the numbers, if they do not recieve aid. Aid costs money, and you want a return on your investment; all the other Merchants feel the same way, and there is no shortage of desperate souls, so there's no profit in offering a better deal. If some other Merchant DOES offer them aid for free, the people will flock to him, his resources will become depleted, and he will be placed at an even MORE severe disadvantage versus your free labor. The consumer will be pleased by the excellent prices made possible by paying your workers only enough to maintain physical survival.

...Now, given that the merchant and the consumer are perfectly happy and that the labor cannot survive if it disagrees, why would this system change? In fact, assuming that the Merchant has some pull with the Labor's government, why should he not do all he can to make sure that the Labor STAYS destitute? If labor is no longer living hand-to-mouth, they might decide to persue other employment options, and that would cut into your profit margin.

On top of that, the consumer also gets it in the end. If you can get a third-worlder to work for free, why should you hire an American? Working conditions and wages drop to the lowest common denominator, which is essentially the afore-mentioned bare survival; those unwilling to accept these conditions will simply remain unemployed until they "adjust" their standards. Consumers are, by and large, also laborers in some respect, and before long the dropping wages and working conditions will catch up with them too. With no restraints from Government, Unions, or any other foolish, "altruistic" looters, wages and working conditions continue to drop until, eventually, EVERYONE is working themselves to death, earning only enough to survive. What happens then? Well, the economic system probably starts coming apart... but that's alright. You, with all the wealth, are in a prime position to make the changeover from Merchant to Lord. Free Market Capitalism dies when the actual markets do, but you remain on top; after all, you have the means to secure yourself against the destitute masses. A happy ending, no?

Please understand, I'm not trying to create a charicature here. The above examples are fairly real-world, and possibly are happening as we speak. What market forces will compel a Corperation to employ an American for five dollars an hour when it can pay a dollar a week for a third-worlder, work them twice as hard and skip expenses like workplace-safety and humane working conditions?

Unions? FMC claims they're evil. Government protectionism? Ditto. Consumer boycotts of exploitative companies? Such things are an afront to the freedom of the individual; besides, the Corperation is doing those third-worlders a FAVOR by employing them.

No, these laborers will not be educated, but you can always make education required for their continued survival without actually paying any more than the cost for the textbooks. Or, alternatively, you can develop new production methods that make education irrelevent.

No, these laborers will not be as productive as well-fed, highly-paid, pampered Americans. They will, however, be much cheaper, and one can always tie quota-fullfilment to whether or not they get their next meal...

Again, this is not a charicature. Most of these things have happened in the past, and could happen again. As I've pointed out, the Free Market would seem to encourage them. Can you explain why it would not?

One last question; have you EVER heard of a corp giving its third-world workforce a raise?

And now, back to work. KAPWING!

Gunjack "Stenchbucket" Valentine
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 04:00:57 PM
IP: 205.250.217.92

HARVESTER OF EYES - Actually, Fiona Canmore could be considered a familiar character, to anyone who's been to the most recent Gatherings and heard a certain "Team Atlantis" tape that Greg Weisman brought there.

(I don't know if you've read Season Four of "Pendragon" or not as yet, but there are a couple of foreshadowing references to Fiona Canmore in it - I won't say more about them in case you haven't read the stories in question as yet.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 08:08:29 AM
IP: 4.244.12.235

Greetings to all.

Greg X> I guess being in Basic and AIt during the Doug incident is a factor in my lack of a grudge. Plus, while Kit's character was akin to my cat's postings, Kit was a lot nicer than my late cat.

Of course, I am not one to hold a grudge unless you really push me at it, and only a handful of people have earned that "honor" from me.

Daniel Johnson> It's good to see you again.

HoE> While I agree with your viewpoint, David Xanatos is a fictituous character. Also, I agree with Greg X that David has not changed as much as he has called off his enmity with Goliath and co. And if Greg has anything to say about it, David will always be the scheming Machiavekllian we all know and love :)

Gunjack> <<That's where they have an advantage, being on top already, so of course they're going to favor it. Problem is, their system is largely an artificial construction, and frankly, it serves their own interests better than it does others'. Why should those others cooperate?>> These philosophers are not on top. America is a quasi-scoialist nation run by collectivist looters, and W is beginning to remind me of LBJ more and more (forget the Hitler comparisons whcih are trite, compare him to LBJ for maximum effect).

I may ahve lost exactly what you are saying unless you are referring to businessmen, but sadly too many businesses are rent-seeking from Uncle Sam (or Johnny Canuck in the case of busineeses in yoru country)and the Govt is the most forceful looter of them all (of course all Governments are nasty looters, some more so than others).

<<FMC's primary principle is maximization of Profit, and in the real world, you almost always make more money by shafting someone than you do by playing nice.>> I disagree. In the short-term, you can pull it off and then you've lost credibility. Playing nice is debatable. Most stores I go to may not be nice, but I buy from them because they offer a good value. Plus the companies that I woudl feel shaft me are tied to the Feds and can get away with more without facing market reprecussions. When I was in Germnay I was not pleased with the internet service form Deutch Telekom, but they were a monopoly and did not even choose new options in my area, so their crappy dialup was my only option.

<<After all, price is determined by demand... if they are dying of thirst, a bottle of water is worth their life, is it not?>> You have a very negative view of cpaitalism..so what do you support may I ask?

But to get back to your example, if a comapny offered such conditions, a rival would offer a better deal, followed by another one, and the services would get cheaper and cheaper.

An example is in Charleston right after Hurricane Hugo (Mother Nature truly is Satan's whore), the Mayor set up laws against price gouging supposedly designed to protect his people (or to look like a protector), so the sellers sold outside of town, and at first they charged high prices, but then others started selling at this profitable market, driving prices lower until they more closely resembled the standard market prices.

Now, on a semi-related note, my choice of aid for the Tsunami victims is an organization called Heifer International www.heifer.org, which does more to address long-term needs and promote self-sufficiency.

<<Unfortunately, the restriction on use of force is artificial and doesn't seem to have much logical basis; WHY shouldn't we use force?>> Defensive or agressive? I have no right to use force in demanding sexual favors of Lain, but she ha sthe right to kill me if I try to make such demands of her..and you also have that right to kill me in that circumstance, as I don't see Lain as the killing type.

Besides, I don't see someoen who earns 30,000 a year as equal to someone who steals 30,000 a year by robbing others (and I guess this can include politciians and union leaders)

<<What if using force gets us what we want? If the positives for us outwiegh the negatives, why should we refrain?>> That's utilitarianism, so a differnet philosophy, and basically if you take what you want by force soemone can do the same to you, and people have a right to defend themselves....if some five year old tried to rob me, I do have the right to snap his neck to defend myself (though once disarming the brat, kicking his butt is enough for me). I do not have the right to retaliate by killing his family (tipping that family off to a comptent social worker is ok) which did not wrong me.

<<The point about markets defining prices is USUALLY true.>> and problems usually occur when it's not the market making that decision.

<<I certianly don't want a bueracracy determining how much my computer costs... >> Shhh.....don't give Jack Layton any ideas ;)

<<But there are times when profit should NOT be allowed to take the lead.>> And when are these times. Prices are determined by the market and people generally sell something to make a profit. It's not rational to sell something at a loss..also an item may not have the same price for everyone.

<<Again, the system is artificial, and if it benefits a few and screws a whole bunch, why should the bunch play?>> So what system should replace it? Most revolutions fail, when you cosndier how the people are treated afterwards, plus they often trade one tyrant for another and usually a worse one.

Louis XVI to Napoleon
Nicholas II to Lenin (and then Stalin)
Batista to Castro
Charles I to Cromwell
Shah Reza to Ayatollah Kohmeini
Samoza to Danny Ortega

And of course the revolutionary idealists are usually killed by the new leaders (or the successor like Stalin did).

You can argue that the quasi-capitalist system we have is artificial, but basic supply and demand of the market is a fact of human nature...even in primitive socities...we traded something we had for something we valued more and that other person valued what we had more than what they had.

As for the Cratchitts being screwed...yeah they had it rough (though they were even more screwed a hunddred years prior when three quarters of children never saw their fifth birthday as opposed to one third in the 1830s). The question is what will the Cratchitts do once they win?

They will need to produce wealth and sustain their new society or else the Scrooges come back with a vengeance, or a few Cratchitts become the new Scrooges, or else Fred was just pretending to be nice so that he can cheat the Cratchitts out of everything once they take it from the Scrooges :)

<<What does he care for economic theory? If he can survive by looting, and can't survive playing the FMC game, why should he try?>> Eventually he'll run out of people to loot and the looters will rob each other next.

Also he tries to loot the wrong fellow and he won't survive at all.

<<Give a well-fed smile to a starving third-worlder and explain that you have a rolex and he has three kids dying of diahrea because you play the game better than he does,>> It could also be due to the socialist policies of his country. I'm more likely to offer such a person a job with some basic healthcare for those kids, and while he may not be able to play the game as you put it, he could make a good emplyee and I can pay him better than his old job and earn a profit from the labor he produces as well as his loyalty. Plus those kids coudl have some enormous potential that could make them much better players in the game.

BTW, did you take any Econ classes in College? Of course, many teach Econ in a boring graph driven way taking the fun out of it.

Coyote and Ravyn> I don't know if you lurk at all, but could you drop me an email about the 19th? I just want to know what's going on and all, and fi we can meet up in Buffalo/Tonawanda/Niagra that day.


Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 07:46:02 AM
IP: 61.77.43.6

I don't understand why I'm doing this. For some reason, I feel compelled to contribute some information. Maybe it's to get more people interested in reading the CR Archives. ;)

<<Quick question. About where in the archives does it start and end?>>
I don't think it ever truly had an official ending.

As for the beginning... If you count Lisa's (Doug's girlfriend) first post in the CR, then the beginning would be June 22, 1998 at 07:22:05 PM (see the week of 6/22/98 - 6/28/98). However, Doug briefly mentioned her in a post on June 18, 1998 at 3:48:28 PM (see week of 6/14/98 - 6/22/98).

Their posts quickly grew in number and size, with more personal or 'real life' information soon after this timeframe. (FYI, Lisa changed her CR name to Kitainia in late August 1998.) A good portion to peruse would be from mid/late 1998 through early/mid 2001.
Lady Mystic - [<--- 1998 CR Archive]
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 07:12:31 AM
IP: 68.21.40.187

HoE> Gods, it went on for years. Literally for years, would take a long time to go through and pick out most of the good stuff, but the link I gave earlier was when his lies and the fact he lied were made public. Not the complete end, he came back a couple more times insisting he hadn't lied, but not offering any proof he didn't, simply calling those who exposed his lies morons, idiots and liars themselves.

Aw well.

Glad you enjoyed the new story though. It was great stuff. Hopefully part 2 will be done soon. And hopefully season four of "Gargoyles" will be ready soon as well.

And Demona is your favorite gargoyle eh? Interesting. She's mine too. Wait till you see what we've got in store for her, and everyone else.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 01:25:49 AM
IP: 141.155.158.144

Greg X: Quick question. About where in the archives does it start and end?
Harvester of Eyes
Tuesday, January 4, 2005 12:58:04 AM
IP: 69.175.64.201

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS SPOILERS.

Well, I just finished reading "Hungry Shadows, Part One." I was not expecting something that dark from a chapter of the Gargoyles Saga. Not that I'm complaining. One of the reasons I love Philip K. Dick's writing is because it's dark science fiction. He creates an alternate world just as well as Asimov or Bradbury, but he's also very macabre at the same time, much like Stephen King. I saw traces of that in "Hungry Shadows," and I liked it very much.

Truth to tell, I didn't even mind the absence of recognizable characters for most of the story. One of the plot devices behind Gargoyles is magic in a modern setting, so I enjoyed the way the auction played out, particularly since that auction dealt with occult magic.

Like some other people, I wondered how it would eventually tie in to the Gargoyles universe, and then...oh wow! Is that my favorite gargoyle waking up on the roof of Notre Dame? Demona just seems to have this connection with Paris. Good call on the part of the writers for making use of that.

It was funny. I read this over a period of a few days. Yesterday morning I was reading it over my coffee, and after I read the part of Demona waking up, I had to go to work. For some reason, at work, I kept thinking about the Gargoyles episode "Hunter's Moon," particlarly the part where Charles Canmore remarks that his grandfather "died fighting the Demon." And I thought the early 1920s would probably put Charles Canmore's grandfather at around the same age Charles was when he made his valiant, but futile attempt in Gay Paree. So before I even read as far as Bouchard meeting the mysterious woman, I wondered if we'd see a Hunter. It wasn't what I was expecting, but I'm assuming Fiona's brother might be the great-grandfather of Jason, Robyn, and Jon. Not that I minded the twist. It's good to see another female Hunter. I particularly enjoyed the way the parallel actions were cut between at the end: Reeves hiding from Demona, Demona hunting Reeves as Fiona hunts Demona, and Kappel just generally being terrified; the editing was good, and the descriptions from Kappel's point of view were just fantastic. Another thing I enjoyed about the story was that the writers gave us ample time to really get to know these characters, who they were and what they wanted, before bringing in familiar characters (while we may not really know Fiona, we know her family history). If we had read of Demona awakening earlier in the story, it probably would have detracted from it. So the pacing was also very good, the way we settled into the new characters before we got to Demona.

One small issue I have, though: the style was very good, but a few of the typos confused me. Especially in the auction, a lot of the typos made me wonder if the story was in past or present tense.

But Lain explained that to me, and I understand where she's coming from. I've been there myself. In any case, I'm looking forward to reading Part Two.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@aol.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, Terra
Monday, January 3, 2005 11:54:39 PM
IP: 69.175.64.201

Gside> Oh, you should see the grudges I've held in RL also. ;)

And to those of you coming down on us for holding grudges against Doug. NONE OF YOU WERE LIED TO AND MADE AN IDIOT OUT OF FOR FOUR YEARS!!! If you were around in the CR during that time, you'd probably feel the same way.

That CR link I posted before was a tiny piece of the whole thing. Read the entire archive, you'll see the longest and downright saddest thing ever.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, January 3, 2005 11:26:57 PM
IP: 141.155.158.144

Vinnie> <<The people of this room can really hold a grudge>>: Hey, it's the internet. Makes it easier since you don't actually see the people.

Daniel Johnson> Huzzah, and I see you have your own domain.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, January 3, 2005 11:14:30 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Daniel Johnson - good to see you, my friend.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, January 3, 2005 09:18:29 PM
IP: 67.14.195.31

Once!
Dezi
Monday, January 3, 2005 08:56:39 PM
IP: 68.57.196.146

This place seems slightly familiar. Happy New Year everyone!
Oh, yeah and 10th. :)
Daniel Johnson - [daniel@daniel-johnson.org]
Ocean Grove, NJ
Monday, January 3, 2005 08:43:18 PM
IP: 138.89.176.48

#9 -- Actually made the top 10 for once...

Dreaming of new episodes someday
silvadel
Monday, January 3, 2005 08:40:53 PM
IP: 24.149.144.183

Take a number 8 because it's great
Revel
Monday, January 3, 2005 08:38:42 PM
IP: 68.119.237.207

7th! and I was going to say something else but it sounded too corny. Happy New Year, everyone.
Mecord
Monday, January 3, 2005 06:46:57 PM
IP: 67.42.16.27

Sixth, maybe.
Starsinger
Monday, January 3, 2005 05:35:21 PM
IP: 209.240.205.61

5th.
Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, January 3, 2005 04:59:11 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Fourth is mine then. Good thing with me being Draconis Mk IV.
Draconis Mk IV
UKMonday, January 3, 2005 04:45:45 PM
IP: 83.100.172.205

I think I'm overly fond of this third spot...
Mecord's Cat
Monday, January 3, 2005 04:15:57 PM
IP: 67.42.16.27

2nd!
Leo
Monday, January 3, 2005 03:45:21 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

1st!!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, January 3, 2005 03:44:54 PM
IP: 67.14.195.23