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About Demona: keep in mind that a just-as-important factor in her stance towards humanity today isn't just the way that humans have treated gargoyles over the centuries, but also her problem with denial. Demona helped bring about the fall of Castle Wyvern and the slaughter of most of her clan, and when faced with the results, rather than accept the fact that it was partly her doing, blamed it all on the humans. And Demona, in a sense, *has* to blame all of her troubles on the humans, because she simply can't face the fact that much of her misery comes from her own actions. To admit, even for a moment, that the humans aren't entirely to blame would mean having to fully realize that much of the problem is her fault - which she can't bear to do.

While we don't know (and can't know) for certain what might have happened if things had gone otherwise, I do think that if Demona had, after the Wyvern Massacre, stayed with the "What have I done?" thought rather than changing it to "What have they done?", her life afterwards could have been a very different one. There'd still be the impact of human persecution, but would it have still been enough to turn her into the genocidal figure that we know so well, without the desperate need to avoid confronting her own responsibility for the deaths of her clan, leading in turn to the equally desperate need to find a scapegoat?
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, March 28, 2005 10:28:00 AM
IP: 198.209.226.130

Ok as I'm sitting here right now, cnn was talking about a remedy to cat allergies (I'm not allergic, but it kinda caught my ear). The remedy involved a shot of a compound that was "part cat, part human." huh? that at least _sounds_ kinda weird. like those weird bunny people or whatever that damon was talking about, like the chimera things....*shudders* ummmm cue sekhmet and her were cheetahs?

on another note, I randomly found a Gargs VHS at my local Blockbuster! (well, one of my local ones, the other one just sucks ass.) It had on it was supposed to be Deadly Force and The Thrill of the Hunt. But Deadly Force was renamed The Force of Goliath. It took me a second to figure out which ep that was, I even needed a clue from the little frame pic on the back. It was oooooooold VHS so yeah. Just wanted to mention it.
Dezi
Monday, March 28, 2005 04:13:32 AM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Harvester of Eyes: <For me, a lot of the pity stems from the fact that Demona was alive for the past thousand years, witnessing just about every atrocity one can name.> And some that we don't name. *nods*

<The rest of the clan slept through it,> "out of sight, out of mind...the fools" Demona might think.

<but she experienced it. I was reading somewhere that during the last millenium, there were only thirty-eight days where there wasn't a war happening somewhere on the planet.> I can believe that! though...then why didn't Demona travel the globe, going to places that weren't as bad as where she seems to have spent her time?

<So she's really not lying to Brooklyn when she tells him she's seen horrors that would blast his soul.> Hrmmm...that would be an interesting story: had it been any of the other series gargs that'd been immortal for the last thousand years, instead of Demona. hard-hearted Goliath vs open-minded (if wary) Demona?

just a thought.

<Me, I pity her because she's unable to see past the evil we've committed on each other. But considering what a majority of our history consists of, as well as the fact that she faced it alone (humans at least have each other, but who did Demona have?), you have to wonder just what that would do to someone. > *shudders at the thought* wonder what a look at Demona's journal (if she had kept one) would look like. glimmers of hope? (for her or by her).

&

<But then again, I suppose she could have attempted to reach out to the humans. It's not like they'd have been able to kill her.> my Methos muse says "true, but she could've been VERY uncomfortable for extremely long periods of time.

<But then again, considering how people were ruled by superstition for most of the millenium, that probably wouldn't have bore much fruit. But since she couldn't be killed by any human except MacBeth, she could have kept trying, if she wanted to.> VERY very true*...but at what point does something cease being genuine (whether trying to wipe out humans, or trying to make peace with humans), and start being just going through the motions.

* = I suppose its possible that Demona would have, over the course of centuries, tried what you suggested...had it not been for the various Fae meddling in her post-immortal life.

Rodlox - [Rodlox@hotmail.com]
Monday, March 28, 2005 02:20:37 AM
IP: 68.32.161.203

But then again, I suppose she could have attempted to reach out to the humans. It's not like they'd have been able to kill her. But then again, considering how people were ruled by superstition for most of the millenium, that probably wouldn't have bore much fruit. But since she couldn't be killed by any human except MacBeth, she could have kept trying, if she wanted to.
Harvester of Eyes
Sunday, March 27, 2005 09:44:01 PM
IP: 69.174.11.169

Rodlox: For me, a lot of the pity stems from the fact that Demona was alive for the past thousand years, witnessing just about every atrocity one can name. The rest of the clan slept through it, but she experienced it. I was reading somewhere that during the last millenium, there were only thirty-eight days where there wasn't a war happening somewhere on the planet. So she's really not lying to Brooklyn when she tells him she's seen horrors that would blast his soul. Me, I pity her because she's unable to see past the evil we've committed on each other. But considering what a majority of our history consists of, as well as the fact that she faced it alone (humans at least have each other, but who did Demona have?), you have to wonder just what that would do to someone.
Harvester of Eyes
Sunday, March 27, 2005 09:41:02 PM
IP: 69.174.11.169

So Lynati.... if you're online, are you going to like.. sign on IM or maybe check zee email? Cos um... it's Sunday and all..

We're writing away here like mad fools and could use an influx of yer genius..
;)
Jacob
Sunday, March 27, 2005 06:26:04 PM
IP: 205.250.217.92

Dezi: I know, not everyone likes it/can read it easily. It's interesting as concept, but they'll probably leave it B&W.

Harvester: *blinks* It's gotten to the point that I honestly can't tell if that was sarcasm or not. Mine wasn't meant to be, and yeah, even the people who hate Demmie still love her... ; )
Lynati
Sunday, March 27, 2005 05:51:13 PM
IP: 70.245.23.156

I may be stuck in the attic tomorrow, as we will be replacing the stairs (which are directly over the stairs to the basement). And there's just so much that could go wrong.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, March 27, 2005 01:05:52 AM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Lynati: I love it when people take me seriously. Naturally, I assumed most of the people here would like Demona. And honestly, why wouldn't they?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Saturday, March 26, 2005 04:55:32 PM
IP: 69.174.11.169

Lynati: <red and black> ooooooo. Not to be a pain in the ass, but red or that regular blue color just kill my eyes against black. Like I know I would have trouble just casually reading Bad Guys (specially at Lain and Gunjack's story length ;) ). The white was cool, yello works sometimes too but other wise, ouch! :D
Dezi
Friday, March 25, 2005 09:11:32 PM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Kathy: <Rodlox > The Eye of Odin Anthology is the second themed Gathering writing/art contest. (The first was last year's Phoenix Gate Anthology). We're seeking stories, illustrations and cover art. The best will be incorporated into the book. You can find all the rules by clicking or cut and pasting this url http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=20 Best of luck to all! May 1st is coming up soon.> That it is.

*thinks* I think the last gargoyle contest I took part in...one of the contests that year was that we pretend to have found an episode in the garoyles' [series] vault...mine had Brooklyn and a roomful of pterodactyls.

ps: thanks for the help.


as for the Demona discussion...I don't pity Demona...but I can sympathize and feel sorry for her. (for me, those are three distinct emotions.

my clarification on "sympathize" - like Milton's devil in _paradise lost_ (on the History Channel last night), Demona refuses to apologize for a mistake....I know how that feels, though not a mistake *that big*.


Rodlox
Friday, March 25, 2005 08:38:16 PM
IP: 166.82.117.130

July 29 is also the anniversary (the 51st year) of the publication of "The Fellowship of the Ring". Which gives you two things to celebrate that day this year.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, March 25, 2005 06:59:57 PM
IP: 4.244.12.202

Spen: [THE GOOD : First off the new white text against the black backround is great I wonder though, is this going to be the norm from now on, or is this just a one episode deal? ]

Thank you. And it’s probably going to be a 2-episode deal; HS 3 is going to be posted that way. We’re not sure if we’re going to bother changing part 1 over to it; it isn’t, well, as "in the dark" as 2 & 3 are. None of the rest of the Untold Tales are planned to be posted that way, and all the rest of the current TGS spinoffs are going to stay their usual black text, white background, as well. (Unless we feel the need to be festive at some point. ; ) However, I think Bad Guys would be nifty as red text on black background. It’s lain and Gunjack’s call, when the time comes, and I don’t think they are as enamored of the idea as I am.


[Also Fiona was fabulous in this episode and those Bone-eaters were very creepy. All in all this was a wonderful episode. Keep up the good work. ]

*salutes* We’re trying. And thank you for the feedback. As lain said, its very nice to be reminded that there are still people out there reading, and that our efforts are appreciated. : ) …also, did they way the text was layed out affect the creepiness level of the Bone Eaters as well as their action and dialogue? Or did you find that had less of an impact?

[Hope it premieres soon.]

We’re still not entirely sure at this point which will be ready first; BG 1 or Gar 4. Or when. But the speed has been picking up on both… ; ) And I still stand by my belief that Gar 4 could be released before BG 1 without problem, since it was designed to be able to work either way (though lain thinks otherwise.)

And this was our writing premier as far as *TGS* is concerned. I don’t consider myself an untested writer…I’ve got stuff up elsewhere. Haven’t been published- yet- but then, I haven’t ever tried.


[Oh, by the way, I'm not stealing anybody's pic am I? Or color?]

I don’t think anyone has used that Hyena pic with regularity in a while. (HoE- For the record, the CR images and post colors are public as far as CR use is concerned, no one “owns” them to post with, but a lot of people come to see the color they post with and one or two images as “theirs” and may get irked if another person uses them. You can’t legally stop them from using the pics but you can request that they not use “your” image to post with on a regular basis if it looks like they are going to. Most people are nice enough to stop if you ask. It’s just courtesy, not CR law. And of course, some people just don’t care if you use their usual pic. *shrug*)

And I wouldn't worry about the post length, we've had longer posts on less-relevant topics many a-time before. ; )
Lynati
Friday, March 25, 2005 02:07:25 PM
IP: 70.245.204.12

99.9% of forwarded "virus warning" e-mails are fake, which is why most people don't like receiving them.

July 29th is coming up soon, too.

125 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Patrick
Friday, March 25, 2005 12:56:59 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Mike Cohen - I want to make this so clear that a clear crystal ball looks dirty by comparison. Next time you even think about mass-mailing people about a virus warning, do NOT even bother emailing people, especially *me*. Some of us already subscribe to services that automatically give us virus alerts. I'm pretty damn sure that I'm not the only one that you mass mailed who feels that way.
dph
AR, USA
Friday, March 25, 2005 01:39:32 AM
IP: 67.14.195.28

Hoe> <<I've always looked upon Demona as a classic example of Greek tragedy>>: The keyword for Greek tragedy: Hubris. Works kind of like "slow descent into insanity" for Poe.

Spen> <<I'm not stealing anybody's pic am I? Or color?>>: Posting style counts for more than image or color.
<<what ever happened to Mr. Dis Connect?>>: I guess ISPs have gotten better at what they do, so he's been mostly phased out.
<<for my first ever post that certanly was a long one>>: I've seen longer.

Lain> <<brain-in-a-jar that is gunjack>>: I know you also keep his naughty bits lying around for when you get bored.
<<there arent enough long posts in here anymore>>: So get Gunjack back posting again. Or does he start feeling ashamed of the human race after a few back and forths with me?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Friday, March 25, 2005 12:10:40 AM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Rodlox > The Eye of Odin Anthology is the second themed Gathering writing/art contest. (The first was last year's Phoenix Gate Anthology). We're seeking stories, illustrations and cover art. The best will be incorporated into the book. You can find all the rules by clicking or cut and pasting this url http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=20 Best of luck to all! May 1st is coming up soon.
kathy
Thursday, March 24, 2005 08:14:38 AM
IP: 66.82.9.33

*passes out*

spen> now THAT.. was a nice pick-me-up :)
here we are getting all stressed out about getting the next one finished on time, and we get a little reminder of why were doing all this. thank you!

a friend of mine read your post and thought that i would be insulted by your comment about "being apprehensive" about Bad Guys. but im not at all - i know that all three of us (lynati, myself, and the evil mastermind brain-in-a-jar that is gunjack) are pretty much completely untested in the writing field and, really, writing "hungry shadows" was supposed to be a "dry run test" for us. im very glad to hear it seems to be going over well.

the white text on black background was lynatis idea, and we will probably use it for part 3 as well, but im not sure if it will go further than that.

im glad you are excited about bad guys, though. we all hope it premieres soon, too. ;)

seriously, though, we will be working on it full time after HS3 is out, so hopefully it really WILL be out sharpish.
(geez, ive been writing on TGS so long that im having to go back and edit out all my capital letters and apostrophes... it MUST be bad... :P)

<<I do hope you don't move the comment room just because of a long post>>
why would we move it? there arent enough long posts in here anymore. stick around and make more!
lain
Thursday, March 24, 2005 02:26:36 AM
IP: 205.250.217.92

Spen: Actually, people have posted reviews for the latest "Hungry Shadows" installment. Most of them were posted the week after the story came out. The archives just haven't been updated yet.

And I had no idea there was such a thing as stealing someone's pic. Otherwise, I think I'd be robbing half the CR.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Thursday, March 24, 2005 12:01:11 AM
IP: 69.174.11.169

Well, No one has done this yet so I might as well do a

***REVIEW FOR HUNGRY SHADOWS PART 2 MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS***

THE GOOD : First off the new white text against the black backround is great I wonder though, is this going to be the norm from now on, or is this just a one episode deal?
Also Fiona was fabulous in this episode and those Bone-eaters were very creepy. All in all this was a wonderful episode. Keep up the good work.
Oh, one more thing, when I fist heard that Lain was the series head o Bad Guys, I was a little apprihensive, since sup until now she had not writtin (to my knowledge anyway) any episodes whatsoever, I was a bit worried that it wasn't going to be that good. But, Hungrey Shadows has completly destroyed those worries and now I am even more excited about Bad Guys. Hope it premieres soon.

THE BAD : Why did I even include this section? Well... no one told us that the begining was a flashback (Though I figured that out pretty quickly.

THE WRAP-UP A Terriffic episode 9.8 really creepy Bone-eaters out of 10.

*** END OF SPOILERS, YOU CAN LOOK NOW***

Todd : You're giving Jeffery High to much credit to say that his ideas 'Crippled Pendragon forever' (or something like that)come on, even if I thought the flashbacks were a bad thing (which I don't) you've had 3 seasons to get over that
(and by the way each season was better than the last)
so, really, the flashbacks didn't do much damage.

Favorite episode : Hmm I would have to say Future Tense would be my favorite closley followed by City Of Stone.

Oh, by the way, I'm not stealing anybody's pic am I? Or color?

On another note, what ever happened to Mr. Dis Connect?
(I Don't have any reason to kill him, I just would like to know if he's still around)

Oh, before I forget, there is no link to Untold Tales from the disclaimer.

Oh, and i do not get Animal Planet on my TV (The problem
of only having 5 channels) So I didn't see the show everyone
is mentioning.

Well, for my first ever post that certanly was a long one.
I do hope you don't move the comment room just because of a long post well, ta ta and no need to warn me about losing my sanity, You can't lose what you never had! Bye

Spen
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:56:44 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Spacebabie: <City of Stone 4 parter, although I'll admit I didn't feel any sympathy for Demona the first time I saw it>

That's interesting. I've always looked upon Demona as a classic example of Greek tragedy. In the old dramas of Greek playwrights like Sophocles, the villain was someone who was not entirely evil, and was designed to evoke both fear and pity in the viewer. At first, I thought Demona was just going to be this paranoid zealot who wants to conquer the world, but I looked upon "Vows" and "City of Stone" as a double whammy. In the former, we learn that Demona literally does have no one to blame but herself for what eventually happened to her. We have that tragic aspect of her starting out good, and eventually falling victim to her own fears and misgivings, but we have an extra dimension added. The seeds weren't planted by anyone else, but rather by her own self. And I always loved, LOVED the way Marina Sirtis played both sides of the coin on this one, and managed to create such a distinction between the older, more embittered Demona and the younger, more innocent one; I was also a big fan of how well Keith David pulled off something similar with Goliath and Thailog. But anyway, I felt that "City of Stone" expanded upon this because Demona's own insecurities (brought on by the fact that she cannot accept responsibility for her part in the clan's massacre) cause her to betray the one human who truly meant her no harm. Greg has even admitted that the thought of betraying Demona never even entered MacBeth's mind. So at that point, it really only took five word to get me to pity the character: "The access code... is 'alone.'"


Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 12:36:47 PM
IP: 69.174.11.169

Apparently I was in a lustfull mood when I posted with that pic of Castaway.

Harvester>>>Favorite episodes...The Mirror is one of my favorites. The Green cause I love the design of the Mayan Clan. City of Stone 4 parter, although I'll admit I didn't feel any sympathy for Demona the first time I saw it (It was after the world tour when I saw it again) Revelations cause I'm a Bluestone fan, Temptation, and Hunters Moon.
Spacebabie
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:10:16 AM
IP: 69.161.157.101

And here I am with a new CD burner (and CPU fan). The old version of EZCD creator was good to me; not sure if I like Nero (LG says I'd need the newest version of EZCD).

Mecord> <<Clan Bob's "Life of Riley" comic is back!! And with plot explanation no less>>: That's the second new comic. And also in new material from dead comics, they've uploaded the last scripts for Acid Reflux (the source of the "cold girl on a warm night" quote) at http://acidreflux.kemayo.com/

Rodlox> <<where can I learn more about this _Eye of Odin_ anthology?>>: It's something to be sold at the next Gathering.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:12:38 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

I'm 21st here!

:)

and I enjoyed the _Dragons: a Fantasy made Real_. (aside from the abrupt leap from 4-limbs to 6-limbs).

btw, what anthology? where can I learn more about this _Eye of Odin_ anthology? *curious*

thanks.


Rodlox
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 09:28:59 PM
IP: 64.12.116.137

I was just wondering: what are some other fandom members's favorite episodes of Gargoyles? Mine are listed in my profile, but one that I'll have to add when I update is the three-part "Hunter's Moon."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 08:16:57 PM
IP: 69.174.11.169

oh, here's the link btw. http://www.clanbob.net/
Mecord
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 03:46:53 PM
IP: 67.42.248.103

It's back! at long last Clan Bob's "Life of Riley" comic is back!! And with plot explanation no less.
Mecord
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 03:45:10 PM
IP: 67.42.248.103

...
Anonymous
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:07:31 AM
IP: 62.43.223.34

*glides into window and lands on sill, smiling* ..

hey guys guess what .i finally got my computer back up and running again :D :D :D :D :D :D ill finally be able to come back in more often then i used to

well gotta go and reset the entire thing ... had to do a total reformat .. lost everything :( but at least it works again well bye for now

*hops from window and glides away*
Brutis - [brutewing_gargoyleguy@yahoo.com]
Hilliard, Oh, Usa
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 03:55:29 AM
IP: 65.24.39.59

Animal Planet? Without a doubt they'll show it again. And they'll probably sell it on DVD's in a few weeks time. At Fry's last week they were showing Walking with Prehistoric Animals and was selling Walking with Dinosaurs. For us without cable, the release day can't come soon enough.
Taleweaver
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:34:13 AM
IP: 207.69.136.203

No I didn't see that. I wanted to, though. Any chance they'll be showing it again?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Monday, March 21, 2005 08:26:57 PM
IP: 69.174.11.169

Missed it by that much! Did anyone see the special on AnimalPlanet? They used Patrick Steward as the voice and hypothisised that dragons really were alive. Now if only they'd do that for gargoyles. Apil 10 has te super volcano going off on the Discovery channel.
Starsinger
Starsigner
Monday, March 21, 2005 03:17:39 PM
IP: 209.240.205.61

*delurks*

10 spot!


---Emambu
Emambu
Monday, March 21, 2005 03:07:59 PM
IP: 151.201.9.219

I 8 you, mwa hahahaa!!
;)
Jacob
Monday, March 21, 2005 03:06:20 PM
IP: 205.250.217.92

j00 suxx0r. : P
Lynati = okapi
Monday, March 21, 2005 03:04:27 PM
IP: 70.249.42.92

Eight, and busy with the art-thang.
Lynati = okapi
Monday, March 21, 2005 03:04:05 PM
IP: 70.249.42.92

ate!
Jacob
Monday, March 21, 2005 03:03:51 PM
IP: 205.250.217.92

SEVEN with one contact in!
Dezi
Monday, March 21, 2005 01:10:37 PM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Seis!!! Six!! Sechs!!!
TheTrok
Pamplona, Spain
Monday, March 21, 2005 12:00:24 PM
IP: 130.206.158.234

Five...
silvadel
Monday, March 21, 2005 11:34:55 AM
IP: 24.149.144.183

4th!
Have you started your entries for the Eye of Odin Anthology yet?
kathy
Monday, March 21, 2005 10:40:49 AM
IP: 66.82.9.46

*yanks throne from under Revel* Bwahahaha, THIRDs rule.
Mecord
Monday, March 21, 2005 10:34:58 AM
IP: 67.42.248.103

I am the second!
Spacebabie
Monday, March 21, 2005 10:22:37 AM
IP: 69.161.157.101

I Claim this Room all bow before ME! For I am FIRST!
Revel
Monday, March 21, 2005 10:20:42 AM
IP: 68.119.237.207