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HARVESTER - Thanks for the review. I'll admit that I could have handled the giants much better; you're right about that. But I'm glad that you found the development for Lucius interesting (to me, the one flaw in it is that I didn't think of that being Lucius's motive until Season Three, so it probably doesn't completely fit in with his portrayal in Season Two; I suspect that this is how Greg feels about having realized too late after making "Grief" that he should have had the Pack kill Goliath and his companions only to discover that they couldn't die so long as the Emir was holding Anubis prisoner).

One side-note about Pendragon Season Three, incidentally, focused around "Brianna My Angel" (which I assume you've read, since it preceded "Giants in the Earth"); Henry and Jane Nelson's first names were a little reference to Henry VIII and his wives (we even originally had planned to name Jane "Catherine" instead, but then remembered that that name was already taken by Princess Katharine, so changed it to Jane instead - though I think now that "Anne" might have been more appropriate, since Anne Boleyn was the recipient of Henry VIII-decreed violence and Jane Seymour wasn't.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 06:48:48 AM
IP: 4.244.12.77

Rule #1 of classical music: if it ain't baroque, don't fix it. ;)

26 days left until pre-registration for The Gathering 2005 ends.
45 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!
Patrick
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 06:47:56 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Todd: I finished "Giants in the Earth" shortly after my internet was restored. But I was distracted with typing episode synopses. Honestly, I would have to say that it's not one of my Top Ten favorite Pendragon stories. It was good to see Lucius again, and also to hear his real motive for helping Madoc. That was perhaps the most interesting thing of the story. I also found his hypocrisy amusing: he describes what a barbaric species man is, and then shows that he's willing to torture innocent people to get what he wants. Ah, well, people have a tendency to rationalize, especially when they think they're doing good. It's also good to see Merlin's powers starting to really develop again. But at the same time, his adolescent body is still trying to cope with that. It's a good dynamic. And it looks like there might be something between him and Mary. He of course tried to hide it by saying that he simply doesn't want Lucius to harm someone who's never even heard of Madoc Morfryn, but I think there might be something more there.

Weak points: I really hope that it wasn't your intention to make us feel sympathy for Char. Because I basically just felt she was whining. Many characters in the Gargoyles universe have tragic pasts, but compared to them, Char came off sounding like a drama queen. It also felt like the whole thing with the giants was resolved too quickly. But still, this story is noteworthy for establishing some sort of a connection between Merlin and Mary. Should be interesting to see if that goes anywhere (is this perhaps why I should finish reading the Pendragon series before I attempt Season Four of Timedancer?). And I'd have to say that after having read that story, Christopher Lee would definitely be a fitting voice for Lucius.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Monday, June 13, 2005 11:52:20 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Patrick> <<There's only one true Egon, and he is a Ghostbuster>>: All hail the Spengler.

DPH> <<If it reaches the point of having a 95% chance of happenning>>: You've gotten ~3500 cards since getting all duplicates? And taking rarities into account would pump it even higher.

HoE> <<if Puck had gotten his hands on the Phoenix Gate, there would ultimately have been little to no repercussion, since the past is immutable and history cannot be changed>>: Still, knowledge is power, and if you want to prevent him from using the knowledge he would gain for future power... But then, we sill have the whole fate thing going on with future events, too.

Todd> <<Yes, it's confusing, but that's time travel for you>>: But at least this way, we don't get any paradocies ("But if that time traveling bread you baked helped me save my mother, why'd you work so hard to bake the bread after my mother was alive?" (yes, that is a real plot line from Yakitate Japan)).

Tharos> <<anyone who says these guys should give it up hasn't seen them rock lately>>: That reminds me. Have you seen the Shameless Rock Video by Absolute Destiny (set to Speed King)?

Spam> It's ba-ack.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, June 13, 2005 11:27:11 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Could get cleared tonight -- Could get cleared next week -- it varies a lot.

Day 8 of atkins completed (tells you what is going on in my life recently).

silvadel
Monday, June 13, 2005 10:26:58 PM
IP: 24.149.178.180

So when does the room get cleared?
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 13, 2005 08:28:29 PM
IP: 4.245.17.151

<< Greg indicated once that the Phoenix Gate was never exactly "forged", but had always existed >> - Just like the reading glasses that Dr. McCoy gave to Captain Kirk.

27 days left until pre-registration for The Gathering 2005 ends.
46 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!
Patrick
Monday, June 13, 2005 07:01:40 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Send pool boat jacks lowball joker <a href="http://www.hxlll.net/poker-games.html"> play poker games</a> hearts lock out spread rundown <a href="http://www.hxlll.net/poker-games.html">http://www.hxlll.net/poker-games.html</a> up multiplayer semi!
poker games - [1301tartvnik@smack-56.ru]
poker games, poker games, poker games
Monday, June 13, 2005 02:54:29 AM
IP: 80.58.19.170

Breathe <a href="http://www.hxlll.net/pacific-poker.html"> pacific poker site</a> easy kind?
play pacific poker - [4872uout@rosco2344.com]
play pacific poker, play pacific poker, play pacific poker
Monday, June 13, 2005 02:27:06 AM
IP: 211.138.91.21

Gside:: <<<<Baroque and roll, bitches>>: They do Bach, too? >>
No exact quoting of Bach in Deep Purple as far as I can tell, but I wouldn't be surprised since they do the neoclassical style quite a bit... the bands they've influenced have shamelessly ripped off Paganini, Bach, Vivaldi, Chopin, Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, etc. The keyboard player did put some Mozart into his solo spot (as well as the Star Wars and Simpsons themes, which gave everyone a laugh). Anyway, anyone who says these guys should give it up hasn't seen them rock lately.
Tharos
Sunday, June 12, 2005 11:46:28 PM
IP: 67.140.55.152

HARVESTER - Greg indicated once that the Phoenix Gate was never exactly "forged", but had always existed - with the idea that, in fact, the Gate would, after Brooklyn's Timedancer adventures with it, apparently go back to the point in time where it first appeared and go through its shifting from hand to hand (including Princess Elena, Goliath and Demona, etc.) all over again. Yes, it's confusing, but that's time travel for you.

Incidentally, have you finished "Giants in the Earth" yet?
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, June 12, 2005 09:02:09 PM
IP: 4.244.18.96

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to tell Todd that the reason I referred to the doctor's brainwashing technique as "new and improved" was because he seemed to think it was, hence the quotations, which were meant to be sarcastic. I suspect the reason he was tooting his own horn was because his method involved a microchip.
Harvester of Eyes
Sunday, June 12, 2005 09:00:10 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

In the end, my point was this: if Puck had gotten his hands on the Phoenix Gate, there would ultimately have been little to no repercussion, since the past is immutable and history cannot be changed. That's a big "if," however. As Greg pointed out in his ramble, and Todd hinted at in his post, Puck is a sick little fvck (hey, that rhymes!). What he did to Goliath is comparable to, say, trying to get someone to let you borrow their car by pretending to destroy everything they hold dear (without letting them know that you're doing it). Ultimately, I think Goliath got rid of the gate less out of a desire to prevent people from tampering with it (since they wouldn't be able to use it to change history), and more out of a desire to just get some frickin' peace and quiet (since Puck would likely have kept trying). Maybe Greg already had Timedancer in his mind way back when that episode was conceived, and maybe not. I like to think he did.

One has to wonder, though: since history is immutable, why was the Gate even forged in the first place? Maybe it was for the same reason Doc Brown made his time machine in the "Back to the Future" trilogy: to perhaps find an answer to that ultimate question of why. Or perhaps the Third Race really do have some sort of precognitive ability (Puck certainly seemed to, in a sense), and could see that such a device would ultimately play an important role in the course of events of all three races. I mean, without it, the gargoyles might never have woken up, but that's just one event. If that is the case, I'm sure they might have seen a whole series of events revolving around the Phoenix Gate.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Sunday, June 12, 2005 08:53:18 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Incidentally, I recall that somebody once had (back in 1997, I believe) a particularly crazy idea about the real story behind why "To Serve Mankind" was made. Brain (from "Pinky and the Brain") is thinking of persuading the Gargoyles fanbase to work for him, so he has Pinky write a script for the Goliath Chronicles that will include him as a major human character whom he wants the audience to admire. Then, when Brain shows up at the Gathering (presumably in his "human suit") and introduces himself as E--n P-x, he gets soundly thumped by everyone there.

(Now that'd make a great crossover fic - well, borderline crossover.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, June 12, 2005 06:38:05 PM
IP: 4.244.18.104

"it" = the Phoenix Gate
Anonymous
Sunday, June 12, 2005 06:08:22 PM
IP: 70.245.21.107

But the pouch and its contents weren't given of Goliath's free will; and Puck was pretty clear that it had to be handed over of one's free will into Fay hands, not simply stolen.
Lynati
Sunday, June 12, 2005 06:00:51 PM
IP: 70.245.21.107

DPH> <<Actually, I was re-watching "Eye of the Storm" and a thought occured to me. Had Odin succeeded in grabbing Goliath's pouch while in the polar bear form, could he have pulled the gate out of it or was he just limited to reclaiming his lost eye?>>

Obviously, Odin would have had both.
Greg B
Sunday, June 12, 2005 03:58:38 PM
IP: 68.198.13.185

Gside - let me phrase it this way. I've calculated the odds. I don't expect things by the time the odds reach 50/50. When the odds reach 75%+ (especially 90%+) of happenning, I expect it to occur. I know the game already cheats with a certain deck - it almost always draws certain cards by the time the odds reach 50/50 of it happenning. All I want is the odds to be fairly accurate. If it reaches the point of having a 95% chance of happenning (and it makes sense), then I generally expect it to happen.

Guandalug la'Fay - I'm about halfway though writing the summary of NO. I'm taking my time watching the episode again to make sure I don't miss anything by accident.

HOE - After nearly falling for Puck's illusion, Goliath realized that he couldn't take the risk again of anybody almost tricking him again. Timedancer spin-off or not, Puck's motivation works well and Goliath's reaction works just as well. Put yourself in Goliath's shoes. Puck almost deceived you into giving up the Phoenix Gate. You previously had thought the only safe place for the gate was on your person. Then you realize it's not safe there. How do you deal with the situation?

Actually, I was re-watching "Eye of the Storm" and a thought occured to me. Had Odin succeeded in grabbing Goliath's pouch while in the polar bear form, could he have pulled the gate out of it or was he just limited to reclaiming his lost eye?
dph
ar, usa
Sunday, June 12, 2005 02:48:53 PM
IP: 65.132.36.80

The ancient society of no patricks! =)
silvadel
Sunday, June 12, 2005 01:26:20 PM
IP: 24.149.178.180

DPH> Sorry, that one got lost in the last update - I re-added the two summaries you wanted to do. I'm looking forward to your summaries.
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
Sunday, June 12, 2005 09:54:39 AM
IP: 80.145.12.105

Remember, kiddies. There's only one true Egon, and he is a Ghostbuster.

<< <Yep... all TGC really needed was some musical interludes like that. ;)> Every TGC Episode except "A Bronx Tail." >> - Whatchu talkin' 'bout, HoE? If that kid should had busted out with "Been spendin' most our lives / livin' in an Amish Paradise," I might actually want to watch that episode a second time. ;)

Re: Tony Banks - I'm afraid I'm not terribly familiar with his solo work, but here's a list of his albums that I've found:

A Curious Feeling - 1979
The Wicked Lady (soundtrack) - 1983
The Fugitive - 1983
Soundtracks - 1986
Bankstatement - 1989
Still - 1991
Strictly Inc. - 1995

Tracking any of those down, now that might be the difficult part. But I'm glad you asked the question, because now I'm tickled to see that Genesis has only one degree of separation from Gargoyles. You see... way back before she boarded the Enterprise D as Counselor Troi, Marina Sirtis had a minor role (that included some nude scenes) in the film "The Wicked Lady."

28 days left until pre-registration for The Gathering 2005 ends.
47 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!
Patrick
Sunday, June 12, 2005 09:45:09 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

HARVESTER - That and (as Greg once pointed out), if Puck had magically trapped you in an illusion in which almost all of your family and friends were killed - many of them in particularly horrifying ways - and the world taken over and enslaved by an insane computer program, would you want to give the Phoenix Gate to him?
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, June 12, 2005 06:19:02 AM
IP: 4.244.12.65

Gorebash> <<I'm just looking to make sure everything is cool with the security code deal>>: You mean I'll actually have to think when I post? If it's for spam prtection, I guess I'll support it.

DPH> <<I'm tempted to write my own little program to test my theories on how in heck it *should* work>>: If a random number generator is not working the way you think it shoud, then it is working properly.

Tharos> <<Baroque and roll, bitches>>: They do Bach, too?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, June 12, 2005 02:52:39 AM
IP: 68.83.187.89

HoE> Despite everything, I just don't think Goliath trusted anyone with the Gate.
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, June 12, 2005 02:26:34 AM
IP: 69.118.108.212

I was reading through Greg's episode rambles, when a thought came to me: in "Future Tense," what does it matter if Puck does get his hands on the Phoenix Gate? If history can't be changed, it's not like there's any damage that he or Oberon can do with it. I don't know if Greg has addressed this on his site or not. If not, I'll have to pose it to him when he starts accepting questions again. But I'm guessing that the most obvious answer is that even that far back (and maybe even farther), he had Timedancer in his mind.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Sunday, June 12, 2005 01:27:49 AM
IP: 69.174.20.156

HARVESTER - Well, judging from what hearing E--n P-x's name over and over in that episode did to the audience's attitude towards the guy (and the folks in the audience weren't even exposed to the microchip), I'd say that even if it wasn't a "new and improved" style of brainwashing, it was certainly a convincing one! :)

On the more serious level (though I've already mentioned this before), I can't help thinking that a better way of assassinating Mr. P-x would have been to have an Illuminati agent disguised as a member of one of the warring factions from his home country do the job. That way his murder would be seen to have a political dimension to it that could encourage a renewal of the fighting, something that you wouldn't get with a gargoyle. I doubt that the Austria-Hungarian Empire would have gone to war with Serbia in 1914 if Archduke Franz Ferdinand had been killed and eaten by a ferocious wild animal (which is how most humans view gargoyles) during his visit to Sarajevo, as opposed to being shot by a Serbian assassin.

Of course, the concept could have been that P-x was the only statesman in his country who wanted peace so that the mere removal of him would be enough to get the war going again - but even so, getting a gargoyle to do the job strikes me as unnecessarily expensive and even counter-productive (as in, what if a gargoyle killing a head of state right in the middle of one of the world's most prominent cities actually scared the humans off of fighting each other, on the grounds that the gargoyles would seem a more serious threat than each other?).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, June 11, 2005 09:38:34 PM
IP: 4.244.18.62

HoE: you know, somehow I thought I'd get a response like that. ; )

Guan: If there's eps left to summarize, I might kick in one or two. *goes to check link*
Lynati
Saturday, June 11, 2005 08:57:17 PM
IP: 70.245.21.107

Lynati: The writer of that episode did not even have a brain capable of producing subtext. The Illuminati doctor's "new and improved" quick brainwashing method involved sticking a microchip embossed with the society's emblem onto Goliath's neck, then saying "Egon Pax" over and over. For God's sake, what's new and improved about that?

Patrick: <Yep... all TGC really needed was some musical interludes like that. ;)> Every TGC Episode except "A Bronx Tail." I don't think even a shot of Elisa taking a shower could have saved that one. Well, maybe if Demona was also in said shower, but that would never happen.

But yeah, anyway, the Stonecutters wear robes and have numbers. And I always thought the Illuminati's robes bore a resemblance to the Stonecutters' robes. Honestly, after conveniently spitting out the plot, that doctor should have adjourned the meeting by saying "Now get's all get drunk and play ping-pong!"

And a quick question: is there any solo work by Tony Banks that you might recommend? I've been listening to "Duke" a lot lately, and I think Banks is perhaps the group's most-overlooked member (well, so's Rutherford, but he didn't write as much material on "Duke" as Banks did).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Saturday, June 11, 2005 08:40:10 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Guandalug la'Fay - I'm planning to turn in both of mine today. Meanwhile, could you update the list of what stories still need summaries? You haven't noted on the list which ones I volunteered to do. Has anybody claimed "Posession"? If not, I wouldn't mind doing that.
dph
ar, usa
Saturday, June 11, 2005 07:22:09 PM
IP: 65.132.36.24

"Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cray fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do!
We doooooooooooooooooo!"

Yep... all TGC really needed was some musical interludes like that. ;)

29 days left until pre-registration for The Gathering 2005 ends.
48 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!
Patrick
Saturday, June 11, 2005 08:40:20 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

HoE> Thank you for all your summary work. It's highly appreciated. Now, as you said you watched "To Serve mankind", and that episode's still missing..... *g*

All ye others - where's YOUR submission? It's a chance to get a mention on the GFW website, and it's helping me to get the reviews complete.

As for the comics - as soon as they get in series, I'll make sure to get them summed up and reviewed as well. I'll even do it myself IF I find a shop that'll import them.
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
Saturday, June 11, 2005 04:51:32 AM
IP: 80.145.42.46

Also, "To Serve Mankind" is a cookbook! a cookbook!

I've managed to avoid seeing the ep, ever, so someone tell me; does the subtext indicate that Gargoyles are here to eat humans, or that Gargates are the next diet fad for us daywalkers?

; )
Lynati
Saturday, June 11, 2005 04:12:37 AM
IP: 70.245.21.107

Well, I just watched "To Serve Mankind" in the interest of statistical discovery. In the end, I calculated that the name Egon Pax is used about 48 or 50 times in that episode. I know some people usually get a higher number, but I was going by the number of times his full name is used (and not when people call him President Pax or just Pax). Since the episode (at least the syndicated one) is about 20 minutes long without commercials, that means that the name Egon Pax is used about 2.5 times per minute, which translates into once every 24 seconds. And, please, don't be concerned about me. I was in very little danger. Like any good scientist, I know the risks of what I do, which is why I liberally dosed myself with wine before watching the episode. So the damage to my psyche was minimal.

By the way: I think that scene with the Illuminati meeting around the table at the start of Act II could ultimately have been made better by adding a few things: Steve Guttenberg in Illuminati robes, a guy in an egg costume, and a Martian. And they should have been holding beer steins and singing about how they keep the Metric System down (and make Steve Guttenberg a star).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:24:38 AM
IP: 69.174.20.156

I suppose I should be posting the countdown over here, too.

30 days left until pre-registration for The Gathering 2005 ends.
49 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!
Patrick
Friday, June 10, 2005 06:52:00 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

HoE: Haha, just kidding about being pissed at you for not reminding me to check. ;) You had no internet access for a while, anyway.

DP didn't happen yet, it's this coming Saturday. My fault. But it shall rock... despite the absence of Ritchie Blackmore and John Lord - other than that, it's the Machine Head lineup. But those solos in Lazy, Highway Star, and Burn just won't be the same without them. Baroque and roll, bitches!
Tharos
Friday, June 10, 2005 03:15:22 AM
IP: 67.140.48.167

*Harvester tries to think of another punishment for the spammer, and instead just pulls out a revolver and shoots him in the head.*

Remind me to re-edit this post 20 years from now so it looks like the spammer fired first. ( ;

Guandalug: Banging out the synopsis for "Avalon, Part III" has inspired me. I just can't stand to see multi-part episodes incomplete. So feel free to put me down for "The Gathering, Part II."

Tharos: I was unaware I was your babysitter. Of course, I don't think I'm being paid, so I never really bothered to ask in the first place. I'm probably gonna hear it from Reno, too, despite the fact that she's in transit and is not sure when she'll have access to a computer again.

Glad to hear DP rocked. I just love how a lot of these old bands manage to keep their energy (except for the Who; it's time for them to retire). I very nearly bought tickets to see Blue Oyster Cult tonight (by tonight I mean the night of 6/10, since it is now technically Friday), but May's an expensive month for me so my money's a little tight right now. I'm not even buying beer for the next few weeks.

And it looks like the CR finally got that shot on the rump it's been needing. And it happened without quotable quotes about Darwin or Freud or Jesus or whatever. See, you just gotta give these things time.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Friday, June 10, 2005 01:11:44 AM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Great, I'm getting frustrating with the way a game behaves. I told myself when I get to the point of having won triplicates of all cards in Yugi:Power Of Chaos:Yugi, I'm taking a permanent break from playing that game and a prolonged break from playing any more Yugi:Power of Chaos games. It seems once I made that committment, the game decided it is going to take forever to get that goal. (There are only 2 cards in that game that I have doubles of and everything else I have triples (or more). I'm tempted to write my own little program to test my theories on how in heck it *should* work.

I start back to college on July 11 in Summer 2. I had to drop my Summer 1 classes. Here's the story behind that: in one classes I was the only student and there's no way I was going to let that hapeen so I dropped the course. Now, in order for financial aid to cover the cost, I had to take *2* summer classes. Tried as I could and needing plenty of classes to graduate, the problem became a simple one. There was no way I could find a class I needed to take at that time slot of the class I dropped. I loved the lie (no typo, definitely the word "lie" not the word "line") that the department head said when he said he doesn't make schedules with the choices of when each class is taught. I don't know; when you get down to a certain point where all the classes you need to take are only taught at 2 different time slots, your schedule has already been decided.
dph
ar, usa
Friday, June 10, 2005 01:00:03 AM
IP: 65.132.36.151

spen - <If you're no longer on the staff, then who is the series head of Gargoyles?> Does it really matter? It's not like tgs is going to put up a wanted poster saying "Yo, we need a leader".

I haven't been able to access the gnc in the past few days. Any ideas on what's going on?
dph
AR, USA
Friday, June 10, 2005 12:17:49 AM
IP: 65.132.36.20

SPEN> "If you're no longer on the staff, then who is the series head of Gargoyles?"

I'm not sure. My departure from TGS was both sudden and not sudden. RL has been getting more and more hectic for a few years, and honestly, I should probably have resigned much sooner as I no longer had time for it. Though gods know, I wanted to have time for it. When I finally did resign, it was like peeling off a band-aid. Fast and getting it over with.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, June 9, 2005 10:37:21 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

Sorry, for the double post, but I have one more thing to add.

Tharos : I personally would prefer to see Dark Ages, but seeing *any* of the spin-offs would just make my year. (and I had expected this year to be a really bad one. Shows you what I know.)
Spen
Thursday, June 9, 2005 09:28:42 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Todd : Well, the Spam isn't what's keeping me out, I just havn't been online for a few days.

Toku Kaioto, Ed, and Annie : Nice to see you around here again.

Lynati : Good to know that TGS isn't ending anytime soon.

Greg Bishansky : If you're no longer on the staff, then who is the series head of Gargoyles?

Gargoyles comic : This is unexpected. Like Gside, I had a *very* pessimistic view about Gargoyles ever coming back in any form. But, like Damo said, lets not get our hopes up too high. This could turn out to be a complete flop.
Spen
Thursday, June 9, 2005 09:21:37 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

My God... this is why I yelled at Harvester for not reminding me to check back. I stop lurking for like TWO WEEKS and THIS happens? Aaawesome. Totally brightened up my week. Maybe Timedancer will finally see the light of day. Righteous.

This is so sweet. And seeing Deep Purple Saturday doesn't hurt either. Best. Week. Ever.
Tharos
Thursday, June 9, 2005 09:17:49 PM
IP: 67.140.48.167

Damo>> Well, I hadn't heard about those other sources when I posted. Guess I was the one who jumped the gun.

Anyway, now that the "Big Cheese" has confirmed the story, it's time to celebrate. Three cheers for Creature Comics.Com!
Guardian Mike
Mandan, ND, USA
Thursday, June 9, 2005 04:47:48 PM
IP: 24.111.99.126

As I see the spam, I'll delete it until I move the TGS CR to the new system, so no worries guys.

Speaking of which, check out the gargoyles cr when u get a chance. The layout isn't going to carry over here, I'm just looking to make sure everything is cool with the security code deal. The style of the tgs cr isn't going to change (unless I'm asked to). But the make comment form you see on the gargoyles cr will be what you see here. In other words, no more city, state, country but rather just a "signature" box.

Cool?
Gorebash
Thursday, June 9, 2005 02:14:07 PM
IP: 192.207.57.24

Darn SPAM-bots trying to steal our thunder. :P

Like Todd said, AskGreg's got the scoop on the Gargoyles Comic that Slave Labor was talking about.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/latest.php

- Marty Lund
Creature Comics Group
"Executive Vice President of Not-Giving-Up"
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, June 9, 2005 09:57:15 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

Boy, that spambot seems to be scaring everyone else from posting here.

Greg Weisman just announced at "Ask Greg" that the deal with Slave Labor Comics is genuine (though it hasn't been finalized yet). So we know now that at least we aren't dealing with a hoax.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 9, 2005 06:36:25 AM
IP: 4.244.12.191

I'd still like to have Greg Weisman confirm this, but he's either out of town or extremely busy (maybe with the second season of W.I.T.C.H., since he's in charge of that), judging from the fact that he hasn't posted anything at "Ask Greg" this week. All that I can say is that, if it is a hoax, the hoaxer would be well-advised to keep his or her identity secret - otherwise, there'll be a lot of angry "Gargoyles" fans coming after him or her in lynch mob mode.

GREG BISHANSKY - Could you e-mail me, please? After your announcement yesterday that you were no longer on the TGS staff, I wanted to get in touch with you over the story that we were co-writing on it (my swan song for the project), but so far I haven't seen any reply to my e-mail, and don't know if you got it or not.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, June 8, 2005 06:43:05 PM
IP: 4.245.17.74

Not exactly Mike. At this point we've had several news sources back up the story (granted they're not exactly the New York Times, but they're still news sources). At this point if it turns out to be true it won't have been a rumor... it'll have been a hoax. ^_~

I'm jumping the gun by many months by speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if the the comic ignored the the Goliath Saga, picked up with The Journey (perhaps working in some sort of flash backs to bring readers that don't remember the show too well up to speed) and (damn the torpedos) went fairly quickly into some pretty meaty plot points. After all this time trying to get Gargoyles back, I'd wager there are some stories Greg's just dying to get out there while he has the chance.
Damo
Wednesday, June 8, 2005 06:23:38 PM
IP: 63.26.163.51

I think maybe we're all getting a little too exited about this comic. At this point all we have is a rumor. It could easily prove to be untrue, in which case we'll find ourselves wallowing in dissapointment.

Before we all get our hopes up, lets wait for Greg to confirm the news.

In the meantime, cross your fingers and pray.
Guardian Mike
Bismarck, ND, USA
Wednesday, June 8, 2005 04:18:39 PM
IP: 24.111.99.126

Kaioto: yeah, I say congrats are in order for all who helped push the notion through; it's gotta take some pretty determined people (which we certainly know Weisman is) to get a decade-old TV show back on its feet in a new format. Here's hoping it has a chance to really spread its wings.
Lynati
Wednesday, June 8, 2005 03:06:44 AM
IP: 69.150.75.173

So, new cannonical work. And I had long ago delved into cynical disbelief. That'll teach me.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 11:51:44 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Greg and Damo: Those are both good points. Greg first, since I read the top one first and then scrolled down. I agree that TGS, while it is very well-organized and involves a team of talented writers, is just fanfiction in the end. However, something I read at Greg Weisman's website recently reminded me of the end of TGS, Season 3. He said there were certain episodes that they deliberately tried to give a closure feel to, in case they didn't make any more (the best examples being "Reawakening" and "Hunter's Moon, Part 3"). Not that Greg did not have more stories to tell, but in case Disney pulled the plug and said "no more," Greg would have at least been able to look back with a sense of pride on what had been done. The finale of TGS, Season 3 is a story that I feel has that closure sense to it. There are still more stories that could be told, but even if that doesn't happen, the main Gargoyles thread ended on a note where it could be the last TGS story and still make sense. I myself would love to help out (if anything to see what develops between Thailog and Demona), but I'm working two jobs at the moment. Perhaps I'll explore this further when my immediate future becomes more predictable.

And Damo, let's not also forget that storywise, we don't know what Greg plans to do with this comic. I personally think it would be cool if he picked up where "The Journey" left off and debunked a lot of the crap set down by the Goliath Chronicles, but we don't know. He might also decide to tell more stories that took place in between the events of the first 66 episodes. By the way, do you know if the first comic was also written by Greg?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 08:57:51 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

This is all good news. I had a feeling 2005 was going to be a kickass year, and so far, for me it very much is. With season 2 on DVD announced and now this comic, I'm a very happy man, indeed.

As for TGS, while I can no longer speak for the staff since I resigned several months ago, if they want to keep going and feel they can keep going, then they should. At the end of the day TGS is fanfic. Very good fanfic, but still just fanfic. No reason for it to stop.

No reason for anyone to stop writing fanfic. Nothing's changed, all that's new is that Greg Weisman gets to once again play in his sand box, which is only fair, because while fanfic authors have brought some of their own toys, we were all still playing in Greg's sand box.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 04:55:26 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

This is indeed a season of good news... the apparent green light for a second DVD was excellent to hear, but this blows it out of the water.

Still, this is the TGS comment room, so to put a TGS spin on the news (and to address some stuff Todd brought up): We don't know if this bird has wings. Last time there was a Gargoyles comic it didn't last too long. Of course this time there's a lot more commitment (especially if it's true that Greg himself was asking to make it and got sent to SLG), but that doesn't necessarily translate into sales.
There's also the question as to whether or not Slave Labor can handle these products well. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for the folks over at SLG - Skeleton Key, Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, Gloom Cookie, Lenore, Replacement God... they're all fine books. But they're also all books with quite a different feel from any of the properties they've just acquired. Hopefully they'll be able to find artists that can pull off a good style for the books, but we don't know yet (Hopefully we'll get a good idea what we're in for when the Haunted Mansion book comes out). And it's going to be hard to get these books noticed.

So from the TGS standpoint: Better to not start putting up the chairs and turning off the lights - the comic might end up only being four issues long.

So from the Gargoyles fan standpoint: Whoopee!

Damo
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 02:57:18 PM
IP: 67.175.114.56

Well, I guess since Dan and Disney have tipped their hand all official-like, there is no harm in just pointing you to what they've said. Too bad they got the number of episodes mixed up, but whatever. It's Gargoyles, written by Greg, and new. What more do you want?

Congratulations, folks.

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/6994.html
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 12:45:16 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

HARVESTER - The report about the Disney Gargoyles comic came from a forum that Ed Reynolds regularly visits, and which Ed forwarded to us (the report, I mean). Unfortunately, we still don't have it either confirmed or denied. (Bishansky sent Greg an e-mail about it, but presumably hasn't received a reply as yet.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 10:19:56 AM
IP: 198.209.226.132

And Todd: I got what you were saying...Denethor.
Harvester of Eyes
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 09:04:20 AM
IP: 69.174.20.156

I think first we'd need confirmation that there will actually be a comic written by Greg. I know that there are people here who check "Ask Greg" more often than me (I only check it once every few weeks), but the last time I'd been there was a few days ago, and I don't remember seeing any announcements about a comic. Unless it was somewhere else on the Station 8 site.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 09:03:40 AM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Well, again, I was seeing it as in this way: TGS was created to serve as a sort of "fan-replacement" after Disney ended the television series (to repeat the analogy that I used last night, something like a regent being appointed to run the kingdom in the king's absence - and who would obviously surrender his authority once the king returned), so once the series was being resurrected in some form on an official basis, the original purpose of TGS would have been fulfilled. But after reading the comments on that, I'd say that the current purpose of TGS has changed, so that maybe the Gargoyles comic books (if they actually do get written and it isn't just a rumor - note that we still don't have a confirmation or denial on the official level)won't render it no longer necessary.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 07:31:19 AM
IP: 4.244.12.147

Yep, TGS is just fanfiction like any other...save for the sheer numbers of people who have been involved in the collaboration over the years. The initial group of staff may have *created* TGS to keep telling stories about the characters we all loved, based on Weisman's plan, the current staff wants the same- to tell stories about these characters, including the ones created within TGS, based on TGS's plan and how both the canon and fictional characters have been developed. If we were to just stop now, who will tell *their* stories? (I mean, besides Spike. ; )

Our purpose hasn't changed; we still have a saga to finish.

By now we've deviated enough from Weisman's plan that we're no longer concerned much with his specific revelations; many things he has to say don't match up with the way TGS is set up, from Brooklyn's family to the nature of the Illuminati. There is no point in doing backbends to match his word when we have our own plans based on where we've already been. We're wrapping up TGS over the next few years, building on two seasons of the canon show and thirteen of this collective fan continuation, and we hope these last few seasons are strong enough to stand on their own, with or without comparison to wherever Greg W. takes the story of these "same" characters to.

...man, why can't I write fic as easy as I can write CR responses?
Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]
Tuesday, June 7, 2005 02:25:07 AM
IP: 69.150.75.173

Well, finally missed the top ten (serves me right for thinking it was Sunday.)

Current debate : I'll discuss this when I have more time.
Spen
Monday, June 6, 2005 08:11:49 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Let me clarify what I was saying about TGS. Yes, I wouldn't expect Gargoyles fanfiction in general to end if the Gargoyles comic book series gets the go-ahead. But what I was thinking of was the motivation (or at least, the original motivation) behind the creation of TGS. It was one of "Well, Disney's not going to be making any more episodes, so if we're going to have any further adventures of the gargoyles, we, the fans, are going to have to come up with them ourselves." It was intended, back when we were working on Season One, to last until Disney came to its senses and brought "Gargoyles" back in some form. In fact, I recall Dumlao (then one of the project heads) commenting that, if Disney did revive "Gargoyles", the TGS staff would wrap up the project, since it would have accomplished its purpose. So, remembering that, I'd assumed that the return of "Gargoyles" would mean the ending of TGS in a way that would not mean the end of other "Gargoyles" fanfic series that were created for other reasons, that the TGS staff would conclude the project in a manner similar to, say, the Steward who has governed the kingdom in the King's absence yielding up his rod of office to the King upon his return (to use a Tolkien-based analogy).

Of course, maybe the purpose for TGS has changed since then; that *was* what we were saying in Season One, after all, which was years ago. But it was a natural assumption that I'd made, based on what I'd remembered about how and why TGS began - and the way in which the "how and why" differed from the "how and why" for other Gargoyles fanfics.

Of course, since we don't have the information about the comic book confirmed yet, this is still all just an "if", anyway.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 6, 2005 06:50:39 PM
IP: 4.244.12.196

*delurks very momentarily*

First off, I was wondering if all the info about Greg doing a new comic series for gargoyles was posted anywhere, like station 8, and if so does anyone have a link?

My other thought has to do with the prospect of TGS stopping its work on stories if such a thing were to happen. I can understand to a point not wanting to write out the full stories if Greg is able to come back and show us his actual way, all details included. But I've been reading this for so long that I hold it as a standard, and as cool as it would be if Greg could do some sort of comeback with Gargoyles, TGS's way of looking at things would still be my standard. To get to my point, if the staff does stop writing the stories, could you guys at least post the outlines? I believe I've at least heard you say that those at least are done. This would be expecially nice because I'm guessing that Greg's comic would only cover the main storyline in modern times, and it would leave all the other series still up in the air as to what would happen. I for one would really like to see at least Timedancer and Dark Ages come to some kind of definate close.

Just a thought
Annie - [sky_warrior17@hotmail.com]
ID
Monday, June 6, 2005 06:48:50 PM
IP: 208.187.168.132

I'd like to see Season Four of 'Gargoyles' not least for the selfish reason that I submitted several outlines for it and I'd like to see how they turned out. But also, I know there was a lot of material generally for 'Gargoyles' and 'Bad Guys' that was phenomenally good, and it would be a shame if people didn't get a chance to read it. TGS and 'Gargoyles' are so far diverged now, that I don't really see that one affects the other. I think it's an awesome multi-verse in its own right, though.
Ed
London, England
Monday, June 6, 2005 03:29:03 PM
IP: 213.187.39.166

Why ending TGS? Sure, it claims to be the fan-written continuation of the storyline and was following Greg's Masterplan as closely as possible at the time it was outlined - but it's still - and I mean no disrespect - "just fanfiction". There is simply no need to abandon a project that was kept alive by the fandom (or a part of it) just because there will be new comics out there - just like there's no reason for all the other fanfic authors to end THEIR work for the same reason. There's fanfic being written for series still running - so why should the TGS writers stop?

No, my "request" towards the TGS crew is to continue, to go on the way they wanted to. Had I but the time and skill, I would've helped them along this way long ago - but as it is right now, I can only applaud their efforts and ask the to go on - in a slow a pace as needed (even though I'm mighty curious about future episodes and would rather seem them now insetad of somewhen in the future, but that's on another card).
Guandalug la'Fay
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:53:57 PM
IP: 80.145.45.219

Guess I'll claim spot 11. Just outside the top ten.
*waves* Hi everybody!
Renee
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:24:43 PM
IP: 68.47.110.33

Todd and Patrick- The seasons have been planned and roughed but it's all a matter of getting things written. But as far as ending in a hurry? I'm afraid Time and physics plots against us.
Revel
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:21:54 PM
IP: 68.116.218.47

I'll claim Ten for myself and Spacie
Revel
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:17:05 PM
IP: 68.116.218.47

PATRICK - A sad but true fact, but I'm talking here about an official winding-down, rather than the informal one of "We want to continue it, but we're so bogged down with real life that we can't find the time any more".
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 6, 2005 07:34:45 AM
IP: 4.244.12.122

I can do nine.
Starsinger
Monday, June 6, 2005 07:31:11 AM
IP: 209.240.205.61

I'm Henry the 8th, I am.

Todd > For all outward appearances, it appears that TGS has wound down already.

34 days left until pre-registration for The Gathering 2005 ends.
53 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!
Patrick
Monday, June 6, 2005 06:55:14 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

7th.

A question for the TGS Staff: If the rumor about the Gargoyles comic written by Greg Weisman turns out to be true, will TGS be winding itself down in a hurry? It seems to me that, if we're going to be having a "Gargoyles" revival with Greg in charge once more, the "fan continuation" will now be obsolete.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 6, 2005 06:49:48 AM
IP: 4.244.12.122

Hey Kai, long time no see.
Dezi
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:55:26 AM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Six! Finally not eleven!!!
Dezi
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:54:50 AM
IP: 68.57.196.146

5th!
Leo
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:50:24 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

4th!!
dph
ar, usa
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:48:08 AM
IP: 65.132.36.66

*Harvester watches as Demona slashes Toku's post with her talons, leaving THREE red claw marks.*

Very well. Three, then.
Harvester of Eyes
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:34:39 AM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Two, just like the title of my favorite story from TGS, Season One.

By the way, Taina just showed me an interesting link. I hope this is true.

And the wipe seems to be happening early this week. Whatever. That just means I get to snag a top ten spot.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:33:07 AM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Second!

For old time's sake.

And the new.
Toku Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:31:55 AM
IP: 24.218.171.118

EMPTY ROOM -- 1st
silvadel
Monday, June 6, 2005 12:20:07 AM
IP: 24.149.178.180