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Spen> <<Jane died in childbirth which *was* caused by Henry>>: Though it is rather hard to decree a pregnancy.

Tharos> <<we started hearing Van Halen instead of the movie>>: At the local theater, for the first midnight showing of Sith, they discovered the last reel should have gone to Japan.

Dezi> <<I just saw the Blues Bros. for the first time too>>: The shot of the speedometer is real. Who needs special effects when you get permission to drop a pinto on a city?

Gunjack> Happy Birthday.
<<KRATOS AWAY!>>: Did you remember to hug the twins goodbye?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, June 19, 2005 11:55:31 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Happy Birthday Gunjack. Just remember, I don't make bail if you get into too much trouble.



Starsinger
Sunday, June 19, 2005 11:49:25 PM
IP: 209.240.205.61

Happy Birthday, Gunjack!
kathy
Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:53:03 PM
IP: 66.82.9.24

Happy Birthday, Gunjack!
Todd
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, June 19, 2005 08:29:11 PM
IP: 4.245.17.130

Happy Birthday Gunjack!!
dph
ar, usa
Sunday, June 19, 2005 08:03:17 PM
IP: 65.132.36.230

Happy Birthday, Gunjack!
Leo
Sunday, June 19, 2005 07:55:09 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Gunjack : Happy Birthday!
Spen
Sunday, June 19, 2005 07:52:56 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Happy Birthday Gunjack.
Spacebabie
Sunday, June 19, 2005 01:14:03 PM
IP: 69.161.157.101

happy birthday GJ!

Don't do anything I wouldn't do. *whistles*
Revel
Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:06:07 AM
IP: 68.116.218.47

*Wedgies Gunjack again*


Lynati "your new piercing frightens me" Kshudra
Sunday, June 19, 2005 05:34:48 AM
IP: 70.245.206.190

WOO!! It's my BIRTHDAY! Party, Biznitches! Cake and Icecream and automatic weapons for all! C4 Door prizes! Hollowpoint cocktails! Nitro in the Punch! WE gonnas party like-

...what's that dear? Really? SWEET!

*ahem*

...My wife is calling me to bed.

KRATOS AWAY!




Gunjack "You Watch Too Much Wrestling, Jim!" Valentine
Sunday, June 19, 2005 03:08:34 AM
IP: 205.250.217.92

Todd : You're right, we should drop this debate. I was going to suggest the same thing myself. "not to mention that if we keep on at it, we'd be in danger of boring the rest of the room." Yeah, we probably are boring everyone, that's one of the resons why I was going to drop the topic.

Harvester : I hadn't known you had already read "On Holiday".
Spen
Sunday, June 19, 2005 01:34:56 AM
IP: 207.177.11.252

I realized something, the other day, when I was at IMDB looking up information on some actor. Everyone already knows about the large number of actors from various Star Trek series who had voices on Gargoyles (at least one from each of the first four series). There also seem to be quite a few actors from the miniseries adaptation of Stephen King's "The Stand" that came out about ten years ago. I already knew about Bill Faggerbakke and Laura San Giacomo, but when I was checking out this other obscure actor on imdb, my search led me to the full cast list for "The Stand" and I found another one: Matt Frewer, the actor who played Trashcan Man, also provided the voice of Jackal. That's three so far. Wonder if there might be others...
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Saturday, June 18, 2005 09:51:35 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

HARVESTER - One or two comments on "On Holiday".

The notion of Mary's brief "madness" (where she starts acting like a wolf) was one that I resisted at first, but when it turned out to be psychological rather than magical in origin (the result of Mary's response to being a werewolf rather than an additional part of the Angurboda Figurine's curse), I was much happier about it. I think that it provides an effective parallel with Merlin's own madness in the Caledonian Forest.

Incidentally, Merlin's having a wolf-companion during his original time in the Caledonian Forest is an actual part of the legend (though the details are different). I thought that it fitted Mary's being with Merlin when he visited his old haunt so perfectly that I urged that it be added in.

And I'm glad that you enjoyed "On Holiday". (Spen was certainly right about it being the story that wouldn't die; in fact, it was originally meant to be a one-parter, but Christi wound up with so much material for it that it had to be expanded into a two-parter.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, June 18, 2005 07:15:18 AM
IP: 4.244.12.105

***** TGS CR INFORMATION UPDATE *****


CR ARCHIVE:

The 2005 TGS CR archive has been updated to include the weeks of May 2, 2005 through June 14, 2005, for a total of six newly added files. Please note that the week of May 16 - 22 is incomplete. Please visit the third URL included below for a complete listing of missing and incomplete CR weeks. If you have any of the dates listed on this page, please email the files to me via the email address noted on the CR Admins page. Thank you in advance.

2005 Archive:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2005/

Framed Archive:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/frames.html

Missing/Incomplete Dates:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/missing.html


CR MEMBER PROFILES:

Harvester of Eyes' profile and Lady Mystic's profile have been revised. You may view these and other CR member profiles via the following URL.

>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/members/


***** END UPDATE *****
Lady Mystic - [<--- UPDATED !!!]
Head Admin of TGS CR Information
Saturday, June 18, 2005 06:43:47 AM
IP: 68.73.13.166

***********BATMAN SPOILERS***********

Nothing really to add to what those guys said, 'cept: THIS MOVIE KICKED STAR WAR'S ASS!!!!!!

That, and Gotham's supposed to be kinda like New York right? (Like Metropolis is supposed to be Chicago, I heard once). This Gotham to me had a very Chicago-y feel. Like those bridges to the Narrows? hehe Soooo Chicago River downtown bridges...My pal up there said he remembered when they shot some seens around town (I'm thinking he said something about closing down part of Wacker Dr.) So I was kinda looking. ...No point to this really, I just saw the Blues Bros. for the first time too, so I guess I'm kinda homesick....

*********END SPOILERS***********
Dezi
Saturday, June 18, 2005 02:05:20 AM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Spen: I've already read "On Holiday." So far, it's my favorite Season 3 story. Good character development overall. It was especially nice to see a lot of characters we haven't seen in a while, and seeing more of who they are inside. I especially liked how Merlin addressed an issue that was discussed in the Timedancer episode "Requiem": The price of immortality is that you constantly have to watch your friends and family grow old and die, while you remain unchanged. But whereas Demona seemed to have given in to despair, Merlin's resolve only seemed strengthened (his attitude is that he'll just keep making new friends). Considering his lineage (and the reason Madoc wanted a halfling child in the first place), he's done pretty well for himself. And I feel more sure than ever about him and Mary developing something.

WARNING: "BATMAN BEGINS" SPOILERS.

I can't really say too much that won't be repeating what Greg said. But I was surprised at how well Christian Bale portrayed Batman. I had seen "American Psycho," so I knew that he had experience playing people with double lives, but after past Batmans, I was skeptical. But Christian Bale did an incredible job. There were moments when he was downright terrifying. When he was playing Bruce Wayne the wealthy socialite, his acting was sort of cheesy. But here, it's basically because his character is trying to be something he's not. For all intents and purposes, Batman is who he really is. Bruce Wayne is just a false identity. So Bale's sub-par delivery in the moments when he was Bruce Wayne, millionaire playboy really helped to augment this. But when the Batsuit went on him, his mannerisms and his voice became that of a man possessed. When he was interrogating that crooked cop, he sounded almost demonic. He became the symbol of fear.

I was also impressed with the down-to-earth villainy of Cillian Murphy (Scarecrow). I always hated how Schumacher's costumed villains were pun-spewing, tight-wearing buffoons who sometimes acted campier than the villains of the Adam West TV series. So I really enjoyed how despite the fact that he was disturbed, Murphy was not over-the-top about it, and actually managed to be convincing as the fear-obsessed doctor that Jonathon Crane is supposed to be.

Adn then of course, there was the look. That shot of Batman on the skyscraper was just magnificent. Here was a Gotham that looked both fanciful and very close-to-home, like it could have been any city in America. Much as I liked Burton's direction in the first two Batman movies, the darkness in this movie had a realistic quality to it. I won't even mention Schumacher, since his movies were just big budget versions of the Adam West Batman movie: the antithesis of dark. As I said before, this movie has brought the darkness back to Gotham. The producer of "Batman Begins" basically said that their goal with this movie was to destroy the chintzy fairyland that Schumacher created in the last two Batman movies. And I'm happy to say they've succeeded.

To Chris Nolan, David Goyer, and the outstanding cast of "Batman Begins," I have just two words: WELL DONE.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Friday, June 17, 2005 11:54:02 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Just got back from Batman Begins, and I have to agree with Greg and HoE that it was worth it. Actually, I saw it last night, too... but it was at the drive in. The reception got really bad due to a storm, and right at the beginning of the climactic scene, we started hearing Van Halen instead of the movie. It was sweet, but I missed some great lines. Most definately my favorite Batman movie.

There was one inconsistency in the plot that I noticed, but it was pretty minor.

"Can you drive a stick?" ...Friggin' classic.
Tharos
Friday, June 17, 2005 10:40:06 PM
IP: 67.140.55.152

SPEN - I see. I don't think that I'll say anything more, since I believe that this difference of opinion appears largely due to semantics - not to mention that if we keep on at it, we'd be in danger of boring the rest of the room. (It may be significant that you're the only one who posted here this morning.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, June 17, 2005 06:32:42 PM
IP: 4.245.20.103

Typing error in my last post, I misspeled "Boleyn"

Todd : "Yes, but beheading strikes me as a better parallel to wife-beating than dying in childbirth (which would be due to the relatively primitive nature of Tudor obstetrics)." I was never debating that, I was just saying that it was inacurate to say that Jane Seymour hadn't been the recipient of *any* Henry VIII caused violence.
Spen
Friday, June 17, 2005 04:34:30 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

SPEN - ["I think now that "Anne" might have been more appropriate, since Anne Boleyn was the recipient of Henry VIII-decreed violence and Jane Seymour wasn't." Well, that's debatable. After all, Jane died in childbirth which *was* caused by Henry.]

Yes, but beheading strikes me as a better parallel to wife-beating than dying in childbirth (which would be due to the relatively primitive nature of Tudor obstetrics).

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, June 17, 2005 06:36:27 AM
IP: 4.244.12.218

Sorry it took so long for me to respond, I've just had a lot of things to do lately.

DPH : "Does it really matter?" Not really, I just like being "in the know".

Harvester : "<Yep... all TGC really needed was some musical interludes like that. ;)> Every TGC Episode except "A Bronx Tail." I don't think even a shot of Elisa taking a shower could have saved that one. Well, maybe if Demona was also in said shower, but that would never happen." I'm not sure that even something like that could save that episode.
On another note, hope you have a lot of time for reading soon. The next episode is "On Holiday" which was refered to by Christi Smith Hayden as "The Pendragon episode that never ends". Just giving you a fair warning.

Todd : "Henry and Jane Nelson's first names were a little reference to Henry VIII and his wives" Hmm, I probably would have noticed that if she had been named Anne, and not just because of the reason you mentioned (I happen to know a lot more about Anne Boelyn then I ever cared to know about Jane Seymour.)
"we even originally had planned to name Jane "Catherine" instead, but then remembered that that name was already taken by Princess Katharine, so changed it to Jane instead"
I don't think there would be too much confusion about that, after all, Catherine Howard's first name was spelled differantly than Princess Katherine's.
"I think now that "Anne" might have been more appropriate, since Anne Boleyn was the recipient of Henry VIII-decreed violence and Jane Seymour wasn't." Well, that's debatable. After all, Jane died in childbirth which *was* caused by Henry.
"khaki (Lexington)" I thought Lexington was olive green.
Spen
Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:22:27 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Something that I thought of today after reading Harvester's comments on Brianna discovering spousal abuse in "My Angel Brianna". Or rather, remembered, since I'd thought about it before. But one piece of humanity's dark side that would have been interesting for gargoyles to encounter would be racial prejudice, particularly that relating to human skin color.

Because gargoyle skin color varies dramatically within each clan. Just look at Goliath's clan: you've got lavender (Goliath and Angela), light blue (Demona - she was a member once, even if she's not one now), tan (Hudson), khaki (Lexington), red (Brooklyn), and aquamarine (Broadway). And this range of colors is all within just one clan, a single "family unit". From that perspective, therefore, I have a strong suspicion that gargoyles would find the human tendency of viewing those who have a different color from themselves as "outsiders, not like us" to be simply bewildering, inexplicable, something that they'd have a hard time making sense out of, because a variety of different colors within their clans is a natural thing to them. That would certainly have made for an interesting story somewhere.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 16, 2005 07:27:17 PM
IP: 4.244.12.82

HoE> Well, if anyone wants to see my full Batman review, here it is...

SPOILERS>

No Bat Credit Card. No Bat nipples. None of that crap.

They did it. Finally, after all these years, Batman was nailed as a live action character. I thought all the characters were done amazingly well.

Let's go through them.

Batman/Bruce Wayne - Batman himself was the most interesting character in the movie. This is a good thing. The first Burton film, while a good movie in it's own right, would have been more appropriatly titled The Joker than Batman. Christian Bale didn't just play Batman, he became Batman. And it was a dual role. Actually, kind of a triple role. The menacing, grim and heroic Batman, the dark, Bruce Wayne tortured by the death os his parents, and the Bruce Wayne that was presented to the world as an irresponsible, womanizing, eccentric playboy.

Alfred - Wonderfully played by Michael Caine. Had some of the best lines in the movie. He was more than just Batman's butler, like in the original series. He was one of Batman's three father figures, and arguably the most important one.

Jim Gordon - Big fan of Gary Oldman, and Gordon was right out of Batman: Year One. A good cop in a corrupt city.

Ra's al Ghul - My favorite Batman villain finally brought to the silver screen. Liam Neeson was again perfectly cast. He had the look, he had the voice, he had the feel. The low-key approach worked for me. Yeah, there was no Talia, and there were no Lazarus Pits. But there were so many nods thrown to those of us who know about Ra's al Ghul's immortality. Ra's al Ghul was the third father figure in this. Thomas Wayne being the first, and Alfred being the second. Ra's has always been the evil Batman and they really showed this here, if not for his methods, he and Batman would probably be on the same side, but al Ghul's plans to purge the world of evil amount to genocide.

Speaking of Ra's, did I call it, or did I call it? :)

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gregx/186916.html

Scarecrow - Scarecrow is a character who can either be done really well, or can be completely screwed up. That being said, I like what they did hear. Psychiatrist in charge of Arkham, seemingly on Mobster Carmin Falcone's payroll, but really another of Ra's al Ghul's minions. He was well done, I liked the mask. And that image of him on the horse at the very end... right out of The Long Halloween.

Loved the references. The use of Carmin Falcone as a mob boss was right out of Year: One, Rupert Thorne could have worked just as well. But considering all the Year: One nods, it was great.

And, finally as far as the silver screen goes, the Joker is not the murderer of the Waynes.

Overall, I thought it kicked ass. 9/10.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, June 16, 2005 05:05:17 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

I just got back from the cinema, and I have to agree with Greg on this. I'll have something more in-depth to say about it later, but for right now, I'll just say that "Batman Begins" was worth the wait. The darkness has come back to Gotham, where it belongs.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Thursday, June 16, 2005 03:35:07 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

It's so shiny we had to give it its own tab. The Eye of Odin Anthology is now available to pre-order. Get yours now to pick up at the Gathering for only $15.00 or add $5.00 shipping and handling and have it delivered USPS after the convention. Click the Eye of Odin Tab to get a peek or surf to The Gathering Shop to see all of this year's goodies. ::click::
kathy
Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:42:22 AM
IP: 66.82.9.76

HARVESTER - Yes, I thought the same way about those early episodes of "Gargoyles". One bit that also comes to mind is in "Deadly Force" (which I'd been watching on DVD yesterday), when Hudson at the beginning comments, "Movies, television, video games. These days it's hard to tell what's real and what's not." Now, while that might seem preachy in a different context (and certainly fitting in with Broadway's experiences after seeing the western), it didn't seem like that to me at all from the first time that I saw that episode because it was a case, again, of a 10th century gargoyle trying to make sense of a world that had changed so much since his time and in ways that he couldn't even have imagined before the thousand-year-long sleep.

One or two notes about "Giants in the Earth" that I forgot to mention last time.

1. I suppose that you're right about Char's scene (we never did anything to delve deeper into her in succeeding episodes, in fact - Mary does get a couple of female nemeses in the latter part of Season Three, but neither one is Char). It was inspired by the fact that Char was described in her first appearance, back in Season Two, as having come from a conservative middle-class church-going family that she had deliberately rebelled against; since Mary came from a similar background and hadn't rebelled against it, I thought that Char might feel a sense of hostility towards her over it.

2. Incidentally, Lucius was the second choice of antagonist for "Giants in the Earth". When I first began drawing up ideas for this episode during Season Three Breakdowns (using an episode idea that had been suggested during Season One Breakdowns but which we hadn't done anything with then - it's based on a real Manx folk-tale about Merlin imprisoning giants in an enchanted sleep beneath Castle Rushen, by the way), I at first briefly considered the idea of Sevarius being the antagonist (he'd obviously be keen on getting his hands on some giant DNA). Then I thought that that would be too close to Sevarius going after Nessie in "Monsters", so looked around for a different antagonist, and thought of Lucius. (The inspiration came from the fact that Lucius was named after - and portrayed as a different descendant of - a mythical Roman emperor who had fought against Arthur, and the original Emperor Lucius had an auxiliary troop of giants in his army according to Malory.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 16, 2005 07:35:16 AM
IP: 4.244.12.254

Todd> <<Is it quiet in here, or is it just me?>>: The room's not used to such a workout lately, so it needs a breather. Though the comic did get mentioned on boingboing: http://www.boingboing.net/2005/06/15/slave_labor_graphics.html

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:37:09 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Todd: I never really made that connection about Henry and Jane. I just remember being glad to have a story that focused more on Brianna. There was potential for those, since she is almost more out of touch with the modern world than Griff. There was this great moment in the story that reminded me of a few of the first season episodes of Gargoyles. It might have seemed like the show was a bit preachy at times, but it didn't seem preachy to me, because one had to bear in mind that the clan had slept through a millenium of social and technological change, and were children to the modern world. In "Thrill of the Hunt," when Hudson says "maybe we shouldn't believe everything we see on television," it felt less like a message to the viewers and more like the gargoyles (to whom technology was still extremely foriegn) coming to an understanding about something entirely new. I mean, the world they left didn't even have electricity. I got that same sense when Brianna seemed to have a difficult time fathoming that something like spousal abuse exists (at least, it seemed to me that she was).

I also wouldn't have minded seeing Henry get roughed up a little more. But I suppose on the plus side, he'll be seeing shrinks even long after he gets out of prison.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:36:20 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Is it quiet in here, or is it just me?
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, June 15, 2005 07:07:59 PM
IP: 4.244.12.116

Wow.

Go see Batman!
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, June 15, 2005 03:08:45 AM
IP: 69.118.108.212

Patrick> <<if it ain't baroque, don't fix it>>: In this case, isn't it: If it ain't baroque, fix it?

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:14:01 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Missed it by that much. Darn.
Starsinger
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 03:46:26 PM
IP: 209.240.205.61

Greg> DOCH! :)
Guandalug la'Fay
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 03:37:26 PM
IP: 80.145.49.239

NEIN!
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 03:05:37 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

8th.
Spen
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 02:34:55 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Lucky 7th -- although it is day 9 of atkins...
silvadel
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 01:24:47 PM
IP: 24.149.178.180

6th
dph
ar, usa
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 01:14:53 PM
IP: 65.132.36.176

Fifth in the name of Fay :)
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:39:33 PM
IP: 134.147.82.247

Fourth!
Dezi
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:27:02 PM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Third!
Leo
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:00:56 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

*Crash*

*Holds up TWO fingers* Victory!
Spacebabie
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:54:48 AM
IP: 69.161.157.101

I claim this room.

for I am First!
Revel
Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:52:52 AM
IP: 68.116.218.47