Add Comment  |  Previous Week  |  Text-Only Comment Room  |  Comment Room Information

TGS WebSite  |  TGS MirrorSite  |  Current Episode

HARVESTER - I noticed that tendency (villains becoming less interesting in later episodes) with "The New Batman/Superman Adventures" as well. Metallo, for example, started off effectively, with the horror of a man trapped inside a machine, no longer able to smell anything, taste anything, feel anything, and discovering that it was a one-way process that can't be undone, dooming him to such a nightmarish existence forever. Then, after his first appearance, he turned into a simple "nasty robot" with the horror of his plight forgotten.

I'm glad that they were able to preserve the things that made Mr. Freeze an effective character in "Batman Beyond" - even adding a bit of extra pathos when at first it appears that he's cured and can live a normal life again, only for him to then discover that his "coldness" is returning and he's doomed to become Mr. Freeze once again, able to survive only in intense cold, cut off from everything else again. It's almost like sitting a man down to a delicious banquet and then taking the whole thing away from him after just a few bites.
Todd
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, July 3, 2005 06:36:41 PM
IP: 4.245.23.18

Greg: I think one of the best things the Animated Series did for Batman villains was the complete makeover they gave Mr. Freeze. Both the original villain on the Adam West series, and Schwarteneggar's character in "Batman and Robin" (which was basically just a big-budget version of the campy TV series. Why else would they cast Arnold as Mr. Freeze?) were just buffoons who spewed puns and threw snowballs. But TAS not only spun this wonderful tragic tale of lost love and revenge, but they did a wonderful job showing us just how tormented Freeze was. His accident has frozen him on the inside as well, leaving him incapable of expressing emotion. But there's still a part of him that resents this. He even tells Batman that he'd kill to have his humanity back.

Taleweaver: A huge difference between the Joker and Lex Luthor is that Luthor has an agenda. Joker is simply a dangerous psychopath who only wants to kill as many people as he can. Most of the other villains in Batman's world either have some ideal they believe in (such as Ra's or Poison Ivy), or they felt someone was responsible for their turning and wanted revenge (Clay-Face or the Riddler). The Joker was simply insane, with no agenda other than mass homicide. One of the reasons I always liked the Joker episodes was Mark Hammill's voice-work. Sure, the Joker is a dangerous killer, but his dialogue is sometimes knee-slapping. And Hammill delivers it so well.

One thing I have noticed about the cartoon, though, is that after they introduced a new villain, they were sometimes in danger of losing sight of just what that villain's ultimate purpose was. The Two-Face storyline started off great, but for most of the other episodes Two-Face appeared in, I felt that they pushed the most engaging elements of the character (most notably that Harvey Dent and Bruce Wayne were old friends) to the background. But I do remember that they brought that back in one of the later episodes, and it was really good. I can't remember its name, but it must be on Volume 3, which I still have to buy.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Sunday, July 3, 2005 01:11:03 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

Spen> I was just kidding around. Now, if you don't know who Jon Stewart is, then you lose the cool points ;)

Those are all movies btw, not TV shows.
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, July 3, 2005 02:28:10 AM
IP: 69.118.108.212

Greg B. : "You just officially lost all 'cool' points." Well, I am "the anticool" so for me, that's a complement. Thanks.

Anyway, thanks for the info on Kevin Smith. That also explains why I've never heard of him. I've never seen any of the shows you listed. (Then again, if a show isn't on ABC, NBC, or PBS, chances are I've never seen it.) And, even if I had seen the shows, I still probably wouldn't have heard of him. I almost never pay attention to who the director or writer of a show is.
Spen
Sunday, July 3, 2005 02:15:10 AM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Ok, they announced it -- Fullmetal Alchemist will be looping back to episode #1 on late night Monday July 11th... It shows at 1:00am MTW(well that is TWT if you take it literally since it is after midnight). Definitely worth taping and then watching if you have not seen it.
silvadel
Sunday, July 3, 2005 02:13:41 AM
IP: 24.149.178.180

The Batman> Why isn't Clayface voiced by Steven Harris (Eugene from the Practice)? In the two episodes I saw, as Bennett transformed into Clayface hsi voice was just digitized like Soundwave from Transformers. Did this new episode with Clayface use another voice?

My list of Rouge Gallery tops is a little different.
Ra's Al Ghul - I give top marks to any villian who figures out the hero's secret identity and lives to fight another day.

From B:TAS - Kyodai Ken - same as Ra's, he's only second because he was finally and completely beaten by Batman. But he went out with class. No blubbering, no sullen look as he's hauled off to jail. It was a fight to the finish and accepted it.

From Batman Beyond - Blight/Powers Sr. The series got the most mileage out of his dilemma. And that he was a threat to both Terry McGinnis and Bruce Wayne showed he was a versatile villain.

Joker makes the top ten (about 5 or 6), but his schemes ranged from brillant to bizarre. I think he was a better foil for S:TAS Lex Luthor than Batman.
Taleweaver
Sunday, July 3, 2005 12:45:28 AM
IP: 207.69.137.203

I've never been impressed with Clayface as a Batman villain anyway. He's way too out there to be one.

IMO, the best Batman villains have always been:

The Joker
Ra's al Ghul (my personal favorite)
Two-Face
Catwoman
The Scarecrow
and Poison Ivy.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, July 2, 2005 09:40:03 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

HARVESTER - I'm afraid that I don't know who did Clayface's voice in "The Batman". I have a suspicion of my own as to why his voice isn't listed, but telling you that would give away too much information (and even saying this is probably giving away too much information).

I saw the particular episode involving Clayface on "The New Batman/Superman Adventures", and I agree with you that it portrayed him as a conventional criminal. (Though it was clearly intended as more comedy than something deep - as in, Bullock having to play "department store Santa" as part of a stake-out!) There was another episode in "The New Batman/Superman Adventures" featuring him that was much more poignant, where Robin befriends a girl who's being hunted by Clayface, only to discover why she's being hunted (and again, I can't say why without giving something away).

Regarding the Clayface episodes of "Batman: TAS", I saw the latter half of the first episode involving him once, but can't remember much of it other than the ending where one of his associates is sadly thinking that the guy's dead, but one of the passers-by acts in such a way as to indicate that it's really Clayface in disguise. The Clayface episode that I really remember was the one where he was melting and had sought out the help of a doctor for help; it was definitely tragic, but had a few of my favorite "funny lines" in "Batman: TAS", such as:

1. Batman's finishing his rounds and is about to head back home for dinner, when he discovers that Clayface is on the rampage and has to hurriedly inform Alfred by phone that he'll be late. Alfred replies with a sigh, "Please don't take this the wrong way, Master Bruce, but - " - we see him standing by the bird he's just removed from the oven - " - your goose is cooked."

2. Batman, analyzing Clayface's "leftover pieces", tells Alfred that the super-villain "is losing his integrity". Alfred comments that he never thought that Clayface had any integrity to begin with (Batman then has to explain that he was talking about structural integrity).

3. Batman reveals that the doctor helping Clayface, Dr. Stella Bates, had to sell a family motel to raise some of the funds for curing his condition; it becomes a very funny line when you note her surname (and appropriate given that the Clayface of "Batman: TAS" was a movie actor before he became Clayface). And, yep, we get the cry of "Stella!" later on in the same episode.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, July 2, 2005 06:52:36 PM
IP: 4.245.19.236

HoE> Yes, Clerks rocks.

Randal: Can I ask you a question? If you were Steven Tyler from Aerosmith for one night, and you could pretty much any woman alive, who would you pick?
Dante: Oh, Caitlin.
Randal: Her? See me, I'd pick Liv Tyler.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, July 2, 2005 04:37:49 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

SPEN> You just officially lost all 'cool' points.

Kevin Smith was the director and writer of Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Dogma, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, Jersey Girl (which sucked), and the creator of the Clerks cartoon and is currently working on the new movie "The Passion of the Clerks".
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, July 2, 2005 04:33:26 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

Harvester : Who's Kevin Smith?
Spen
Saturday, July 2, 2005 04:20:12 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Todd: The Clay-Face episodes in the original animated series have a wonderful tragic element to them, as well. I've only seen a few of the WB Batman cartoons, and the episode I did see that had Clay-Face (a ten minute vignette from the Christmas episode) seemed to make him little more than a common criminal. So I wouldn't mind seeing what Greg did with the character. Do you know who provided his voice? I punched up the cast list on imdb, and it says Ron Perlman, the original voice, is now doing Croc instead. And the guest list contains the usual suspects (Kath Soucie, Jeff Bennett, and Jim Cummings, among others), but they don't seem to have the Clay-Face episode listed. I also wonder, if they make another episode with Dr. Strange, who's going to provide the voice.

Spen: Fortunately, the DVD for the Clerks cartoon is relatively cheap. Worth looking into if you like Kevin Smith. There are several moments on that show where I felt so dirty for laughing at what was happening, but just couldn't help myself (I have two words for everyone who's seen the cartoon: "Play ball!")
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Saturday, July 2, 2005 03:55:23 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

GFW news: 2 new summaries (Runaways and The Cage) and a new filk song.

Episode summary statistics: 9 missing summaries in Season 2 (2 of them unclaimed) and 10 missing summaries of Season 3 (7 unclaimed).

And now: Got Filk? Garg-Related? And it ain't on the GFW? Why not submit it. Just send it my way, and I'll put it up.
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
Saturday, July 2, 2005 11:10:45 AM
IP: 80.145.25.247

Boy I'm getting infrequent. Haven't posted all week.

Taleweaver> <<Full Metal Alchemist. What's the basic setup?>>: Boys' mother dies, so they decide to resurrect her. It goes badly and ends up with one's soul bonded to a suit of armor and the other missing an arm and a leg. From there we get into a search for the Philosopher's Stone and the homunculi (I still want to know who Gluttony used to be), scarred anti-alchemists, and military alchemists (fear the Armstrong sparkles) that variously help and hinder them along the way.

Jacob> <<I think perhaps you are missing out, man>>: Yeah, I mean Yakitate is only now getting into the Monaco Cup; I can't wait for the naked Bandous.

Greg> <<Megas XLR (though that got cancelled)>>: And it gets bonus points for being based in Jersey.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Saturday, July 2, 2005 01:21:41 AM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Happy Independence day everyone!

Taleweaver : "We can all agree Clerks was a rocking show." I can't. I've never seen the show.
Spen
Saturday, July 2, 2005 12:13:27 AM
IP: 207.177.11.252

FYI> While we can disagree on this. We can all agree Clerks was a rocking show.
Taleweaver
Friday, July 1, 2005 12:34:27 AM
IP: 207.69.138.13

Greg B> A good point. I was reminded of that watching an episode of Thundercats not too long ago. But I will stand by the cartoon renaissance and those 22 minute commercials. It should there was money to be made in animation. And it launched dozens of other extended commercials. GI Joe, Jem, Jayce & the Wheeled Warriors, Care Bears, Rainbow Brite, Dino Riders etc. etc. I agree that no great strides were made in storytelling, dialouge, or characterization. But compared to the 70's and the early 80's, the Dark Age of Animation, it was frecking Molierie.

The thing that struck me strongest about The opening miniseries of GI Joe and Transformers was that compared the action adventure toons of the day, they blew them away. The villains seemed serious about taken over the world and looked like they had the means to do it. Over at Spiderman and his Amazing Friends or the Superfriends the bad guy de jour was cooking up another overwrought plan as told by a narrator because they couldn't afford to show you the action!

I see it as an evolution. The commerical toons gave TV animation a life's breath and others took it the next step further. Most of the guys associated with our favorite series including Gargoyles and B:TAS got their start on these shows and the baby updates that followed, Tiny Toons, Muppet Babies, and Ducktales and the like. But it does make me rethink the question. Maybe I shouldn't ask if a renaissance is on the horizon, but what new innovation will it take?

Any thoughts?
Taleweaver
Friday, July 1, 2005 12:33:20 AM
IP: 207.69.138.13

LEO> Doesn't change the fact that Clerks was still a great cartoon.

No, on the subject of animation renaissances. Taleweaver, I love Transformers too. But that was hardly a renaissance. Transformers was a 22 minute toy commercial for 98 episodes and a movie. The writing wasn't anything to write home about, neither was the animation for that standard. 90% of the characters were either walking catch phrases or card board cut outs.

Yeah, I love it too, but I grew up with it, and if I view it objectively now, the show was Superfriends with a bigger budget. The third season attempted to try things like characterization and continuity, but it was still a 22 minute toy commercial, and it never pretended to be anything else.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:21:29 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

It is not as much the story(even though the story is a good one) but the characters... Right now would be a bad time to start watching it on AS anyway because they are near the end of the shows that are repeats and you probably dont want to see 3 episodes then have it reset to the beginning... If their schedule says that it indeed going back to the beginning I will post it.

I was going to attempt to summarize what FMA is but I was not doing it justice. Someone will do it at some point though I am sure.
silvadel
Thursday, June 30, 2005 01:01:33 PM
IP: 24.149.178.180

Greg Bishansky <<..Clerks the cartoon..>> I remember that didnt get much air time. Only the first two or three episodes were aired. It wasn't until the DVD release that you could see the rest of the episodes.
Leo
Thursday, June 30, 2005 08:56:37 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

BISHANSKY - While I agree that "The Batman" doesn't reach up to the same heights as "Batman: TAS", I think that it's had a few good episodes among many not so good. When you have the opportunity, you should see the episodes that Greg Weisman wrote for it involving Clay-Face; they have an effective tragic element about them.

HARVESTER - Re "Dark Passions": Yes, I would have liked to have kept Corbie/the Morrigan around for a while longer, but there was some talk about having her captured by the Weird Sisters, both to scare Molly/the Banshee and to give some feeling of victory for the protagonists in another Unseelie hauled off to Avalon. The thing that I find most a pity about that episode is that I thought that Mary and Corbie needed a more proper confrontation at the end than they got. Though (I hope that I'm not giving too much away when I say this) I found a way of solving that in Season Four....
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, June 30, 2005 07:22:48 AM
IP: 4.245.19.4

Double post. Sorry

the 90s gave us Gargoyles, Batman the Animated Series, Exo-Squad, Beast Wars (the best Transformers series), South Park, Clerks the cartoon, Mighty Max, Superman (I hate the character and still think his show was pretty good), The Tick, Batman Beyond.

After the 90s, nothing I really like that's American produced except for both the aforementioned Justice League shows, Megas XLR (though that got cancelled), the Venture Bros is funny, parts of Samurai Jack.

That's it. I hope the second half of the decade produces more, but thus far, it's dumbing things down.

I mean look at the 90s Batman series and compare it with the abortion of a TV show that is "The Batman".
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, June 30, 2005 02:53:31 AM
IP: 69.118.108.212

American animation definetly peaked in the 90s. We've had a few good shows since then, Justice League and Justice League Unlimited, a couple others, but that's it really.

Now, Japan on the other hand has had some great stuff. The big problem is the attitude prevailent in this country that animation is for children.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, June 30, 2005 02:33:50 AM
IP: 69.118.108.212

I won Transformer G1 Season 1 dvds.
dph
ar, usa
Thursday, June 30, 2005 01:04:33 AM
IP: 63.232.251.131

Taleweaver> <It seems like anime peeked in the late 90's>
... it's... hard to believe that someone could say that with a straight face.
o.O

I think perhaps you are missing out, man..
Jacob
Thursday, June 30, 2005 12:01:49 AM
IP: 205.250.217.92

Todd: For the purposes of the TGS ficverse, I think Duval being Lancelot works better. Just like Merlin's parentage: it is different from what Greg envisioned (Oberon is Merlin's uncle instead of his father), but for TGS's storyline, it works better. Being a writer myself, I did enjoy the manner in which Duval's identity was revealed.

I finished "Dark Passions" the other day. Honestly, I had a few issues with that story. First, did the Morrigan know what would happen if she revealed her true self so blatantly in public? I got the sense that she did know, which was why she was having the Minions do most of her work for her. She seemed to be trying to maintain a low profile, and then she shucked the form of Corbie at the end to taunt the good guys and was nabbed by the Weird Sisters a few moments later. It just felt like more could have been done with her and the Minions. Probably the best moments in the story were Morrigan trying to sow discord between Merlin and Mary and the results of that. And the introduction of the new Round Table was also very nice. I also get the feeling that Banshee's insolence might be the subject of a future story. The highlight of the Morrigan's capture was that little moment of dread that Banshee/Molly experienced.


DPH: What did you get?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:39:47 PM
IP: 69.174.20.156

DPH : Congrats.
Spen
Wednesday, June 29, 2005 08:15:45 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

yea, I won my 1st ebay auction.
dph
ar, usa
Wednesday, June 29, 2005 07:58:14 PM
IP: 63.232.249.33

Silerdel> You think so? Maybe I'm just old school, but Anime seems to be waiting for the next big thing to happen. It seems like anime peeked in the late 90's. I had some hopes for anifusion shows like Justice League and Xiaolin Showdown, but the seem more misses than hits. Well, I'll find out this weekend at the Anime Expo.

I don't Cartoon Network so I've missed the airing of Full Metal Alchemist. What's the basic setup?
Taleweaver
Wednesday, June 29, 2005 04:25:23 PM
IP: 207.69.138.10

The animation renaissance is occurring but not in this country... Anime like Full Metal Alchemist is very good.
silvadel
Wednesday, June 29, 2005 02:21:01 PM
IP: 24.149.178.180

I thought I'd pop in so a moment of silence doesn't turn into a week long dirge.

I was reorganizing my DVD library today and I noticed that my Transformer collection (which aired in the 84-85 season) and Gargoyles (which aired in 94-95) side by side, with a little space on that shelf. It led to this interesting thought: can we expect another animation renaissance this year.

Has anyone seen anything that looks promising or heard of anything in development?
Taleweaver
Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:27:00 AM
IP: 207.69.137.205

Uh oh, heeee's baaaaack.
Spen
Tuesday, June 28, 2005 03:43:11 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Am gesture small nickel south bet apple glossary <a href="http://www.ncwash.com/pacific-poker-download.html"> download pacific poker site</a> http://www.ncwash.com/pacific-poker-download.html support buster kicker fast face card society greek?
download pacific poker site - [p8663@msnn.com]
download pacific poker site, download pacific poker site, download pacific poker site
Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:55:06 PM
IP: 82.76.77.30

Moment of silence for Paul Winchell & John Fiedler.




Spen
Monday, June 27, 2005 08:36:14 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

... and another moment of silence as yet another voice from the hundred-acre wood passes on.

John Fiedler, the voice of Piglet died one day after Paul Winchell. :(
Leo
Monday, June 27, 2005 06:45:08 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Greetings all... <looks down> Hey, Coyote! Damn, man... that's where you and Ravyn have been? Write sometime, hear? ^_^

MEMORIUM - A moment of silence please... voice actor and former ventriloquist Paul Winchell has passed away, at the tender age of 82. Paul was a children's TV star of the 1950's and 60's, doing the voices of two 'dummies' named Jerry MaHoney and Knucklehead Smiff. Most of us will know him best as the actor behind several cartoon voices: Gargamel from "Smurfs", Dick Dastardy from "Wacky Races", and Fleagle the Beagle from "The Banana Splits Show".

His most beloved character though, was the bouncy, pouncy Tigger from the animated Walt Disney productions.

For the full story of his career and passing, click my name.





Looks like Rabbit will get his fondest wish come true... Tigger will never bounce again.


Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen Sobotka Jr
Tampa, FL, USA
Monday, June 27, 2005 12:22:01 PM
IP: 24.28.10.202

Yeah buddy, Spen, I show up when ya least expect it.

**suddenly tackled by Spacebabie** whoa, nelly!

In case anyone's interested in where I've been and what not ... right now myself and Ravyn are in the middle of purchasing a house close by, nice place with a nice basement that I'm thinking of using as an art studio/meditiation room. While that all's going on, we're both working and getting along (though not so well during the times Rav has to go to Detroit for training and I gotta stay here and hold down the fort), and I'm trying as much as possible to stay in the writing gig. In fact, I have a screenplay entered in the Scriptapalooza screenwriting contest, mainly as a way of getting it read by people in the industry.

I'm also hopin' that I'm remembered when Greg and company's comic book thing gets rolling, since one of the beta-readers of said screenplay was Lexy ... ;)

Nice to see all of ya. I'll drift in here occasionally from time to time. :)
Desert Coyote - [desertcoyote13@hotmail.com]
Tonawanda, New York
Monday, June 27, 2005 11:01:42 AM
IP: 207.69.138.203

Ten?
Harvester of Eyes
Monday, June 27, 2005 08:32:55 AM
IP: 69.174.20.156

8th.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, June 27, 2005 07:24:52 AM
IP: 4.244.12.236

Eight is great!!!
Starsinger
Monday, June 27, 2005 07:24:41 AM
IP: 209.240.205.61

7th!
Leo
Monday, June 27, 2005 06:07:57 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Sixth.
Spen
Monday, June 27, 2005 03:23:49 AM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Five in the name of me and Dottie-dog!
Dezi
Monday, June 27, 2005 02:12:16 AM
IP: 68.57.196.146

Four, in the name of the Fey *^_^*

MooncatX
MooncatX
Monday, June 27, 2005 01:56:36 AM
IP: 68.102.17.133

Spacebabie - You're #3.
dph
ar, usa
Monday, June 27, 2005 01:34:59 AM
IP: 65.132.36.95

Somewhere in the early top 10 -- hard to tell where in the count we are without losing several spaces in it.
silvadel
Monday, June 27, 2005 01:09:15 AM
IP: 24.149.178.180

Damn. I lost an ebay auction to a sniper by $1, even though I had my max bid set higher than my current one.
dph
ar, usa
Monday, June 27, 2005 01:02:11 AM
IP: 65.132.36.95

FINE be that way, I'll take my second and be happy with it :P

Revel
Monday, June 27, 2005 12:38:48 AM
IP: 68.116.218.47

The CR is not dead, mearley resting... happens to us as we get on in years.


1st.
Revel
Monday, June 27, 2005 12:38:14 AM
IP: 68.116.218.47

1st!!
dph
ar, usa
Monday, June 27, 2005 12:37:46 AM
IP: 65.132.36.95