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Well, the website for the Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles is now up and running.

Hmm, nine years ago did anyone thing we'd actually make ten? I don't know, but it's still awesome. So, go to the site, and register!

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:43:59 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

Greg> <<I bought the full pre-reg package>>: Then it looks like it is on.
<<That was actually in Greg's handwritten notes on the original script for the episode>>: Did not know that. Excellent.
<<Greg has a note for Marina next to it that says "SEXUAL RELEASE!">>: As I don't know which line that was, how well do you think she followed direction on that?

Dezi> <<Cat as in Mecord's Cat?>>: No, I don't believe that Cat is a Mormon.

Revel> <<I didn't even notice that you had managed to avoid my camera>>: It's for the best. We don't want to frighten the children.
<<Be sure to copy and paste that con journal at Ask Greg too>>: But I must finish it first.

To continue: Day three.
Got some food, went to hang around the art show for a bit. Then it was time for the storytelling panel; pretty straightforward, ended with a bit of film analysis (look at how these elements come between the characters; his neck between the ceiling beams makes you think of scissors; that lamp looks like a coffin).
There were some technical difficulties at the original W.I.T.C.H. room, so we went to the con suite. On booting up the DVD player there, we were treated to a nice adult content warning. Someone had forgotten to take out the "how to dominate your man" DVD.
After that, I took a break before the radio play, which was a nice story about the immortal daughters of Shakespeare. Though I did hear some of the gratuitous nudity was added just for us.
The banquet was nice, I sat at a pretty much all TGS table (Greg Bishansky, Revel, Spacebabie, Mandolin). In the dim light it was hard to tell the color of the stars under the candleholders for the door prizes, but that was all right. Then there was lots of Masquerade prep time; the cosplayers needed a security escort through the casino. Apparently they get paranoid about people in masks. Revel was quite slick as Jackal, but the giant heads were impressive.

And yes, once again I need sleep. Let's see if I can't finish it off tomorrow.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:55:22 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

BISHANSKY - I agree with you on that, but I suspect that the mere fact that the London clan didn't need as much research (being inventions of "Gargoyles" and TGS) as King Arthur, Merlin, and Morgana would have made that notion appeal to those members of the TGS staff who didn't know much about the Arthurian legend....
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, August 14, 2005 07:16:58 PM
IP: 4.244.12.153

TODD> Well, honestly, who would want to see a re-focus on the London Clan anyway? I wouldn't. The series was called "Pendragon" not "Gargoyles UK". And, to be honest, I always found the London Clan to be a little dull. I don't think they're strong enough as characters to carry their own series.
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, August 14, 2005 07:07:47 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

ED - Better not say too much about Season Four; Harvester hasn't finished it yet, remember.

You could be right about "Pendragon" being too timid about the flashbacks in later seasons, but it wasn't just that. The impression that I had was that a lot of the staffers felt that they couldn't even write anything about Arthur and Merlin in modern times if they didn't know much about their backgrounds. Once or twice, I almost considered suggested renaming all the Arthurian characters for the duration of basic Breakdowns, though I doubt that that would have worked.

You're right about how we weren't getting too many Griff suggestions. But I suspect that the proposed London clan re-focus would have been less about Griff, and more about things like the antics of Lucy and her rookery siblings.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, August 14, 2005 06:48:28 PM
IP: 4.244.12.153

Yes, I think the real trick is that open-ended closure Greg Weisman has often mentioned: the sense that something new and different is on the horizon, but also closure on what's gone before. Jon Canmore's escape works as a thematic bookend to Demona's story arc, but is pretty exciting in its own right.

DPH: The Star Trek finales tended to be 2-parters spread over the season break (and my understanding of their reputation is that the second parts were generally pretty disappointing after excessively grand 'shock' cliffhangers that were mostly reset). At any rate, i's not quite the same as a 40-part story which you're then deferring for over a year.

Todd: The funny thing is, I remember when I read 'Expatriate', I couldn't remember where 'Seeds of Change' had left things. (In all fairness, I have trouble remembering the details of the 'Pendragon' stories I wrote, so it should surprise nobody that I couldn't remember anything else). I just picked everything up from context. I think the fugitive arc was absolutely splendid, but I do think for 'Pendragon' it would have been better to introduce it at the top of Season Three since it was really opening a new page.

I never found Arthur particularly intimidating from the point of view of the legends, to be honest. I think the problem might have been that the legends were such a key component of early Season One that people playing catch-up were turned off from the get-go if there wasn't enough modern stuff to get their teeth into. But 'Pendragon' was, in my opinion, rather too timid to go back to its legendary roots in the subsequent seasons. There were a few short flashbacks but the only time we really did anything extensive with them was "The Godslayer" and "No Mercy" (after a fashion). As for the attachment to the London clan, that's true to a point because structurally the London gargoyles allow for a storytelling environment that's closer to the original series, but it wasn't as though we had people lining up to write Griff stories. We had to pretty consciously search for places to beef up his role with episodes like "Out of the Frying Pan" and "Preservation".
Ed
London, England
Sunday, August 14, 2005 04:36:56 PM
IP: 213.187.38.118

DPH> Well, yes and no. By that train of thought, "The Gathering" could have been the season finale for season 2, especially considering how much of that season was setting up Oberon, Titania, Puck, Goliath's quest to get home, Xanatos and Fox getting married and Alexander being born.

But, it wasn't. Then, we got "Hunter's Moon", and the Hunter element was only set up in "City of Stone", with no real hints the Canmores were running around today hunting gargoyles. But, it still made a wonderful, and better season finale than "The Gathering" would have.
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, August 14, 2005 12:08:31 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

I think that "Seeds of Change" being the Pendragon Season Two finale (as well as the Gargoyles Season Two finale) actually helped "Pendragon"'s third season, since it gave the staff a specific direction to go in (dealing with Arthur having been framed). Without it, the staff might well have been stumped over what to do with "Pendragon" next (and we always had the problem with it that most of the TGS membership didn't know much about King Arthur and felt reluctant to work on "Pendragon" for that reason).

Which reminds me of a question that I periodically found myself wondering as we struggled with "Pendragon" at TGS under conditions where most of the staff felt intimidated by the subject matter: would it have worked better if "Pendragon" had focused on the London clan, made them the main characters, with Arthur being just an occasional recurring ally (a la Matt Bluestone or the Mutates in "Gargoyles")? There were a few occasions during TGS Breakdowns that I felt ready to suggest such a thing in a state of near-despair.

Another related thought was this. Nobody ever felt similarly intimidated by Macbeth, or argued that "I can't write for him because I'm not that familiar with the Shakespeare play or 11th century Scottish history". The difference here, of course, was that the Macbeth of "Gargoyles" was much more clearly spelled-out than King Arthur was in that same series. For a start, we don't find out until his third appearance (in "City of Stone") that he's really *the* Macbeth; in "Enter Macbeth" and "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", we see him as simply an antagonist of the gargoyles, as much part of the series as Xanatos and Demona. Macbeth's 11th century backstory in "City of Stone" is clearly tied into the main plotline of the series through Demona and the humans-vs.-gargoyles conflict as represented by the Hunters. Macbeth's characterization was based on his specific "Gargoyles" situation (an unwilling immortal, burdened by almost a thousand years of life, linked to Demona and hunting her down partly to punish her for her betrayal of him and partly to gain release from what he considered an unbearable weariness).

This makes me wonder if "Pendragon" would have been less frightening to a lot of the staff if we'd handled Arthur in a similar way to how "Gargoyles" handled Macbeth. Not completely, since Arthur, unlike Macbeth, was introduced immediately as King Arthur instead of a mysterious man named Arthur. But, for example, if we'd focused the flashbacks that made up so much (too much) of Season One around, say, human-gargoyle relationships in 5th and 6th century Britain and Arthur's alliance with the local gargoyles (who, most likely, would have been the ancestors of the London clan), rather than around the traditional adventures of the knights of the Round Table (which you could learn about by going to your local library and checking a few books out of the 398.2 section), and established Arthur as more of a specific character in his own right (which would have been a bit of a challenge; the main piece of characterization that Arthur had in "Gargoyles" was his having difficulty considering the possibility that Excalibur might be meant for somebody else this time around, and since he had his sword back by the end of the episode, we obviously couldn't continue that trait in the spin-off), it wouldn't have appeared as if you needed to be an Arthurian scholar to work on "Pendragon".
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, August 14, 2005 08:05:19 AM
IP: 4.244.12.242

I'll freely to being overly logical at times; those who have worked with me on tgs staff could easily testify to that or those who have observed my posts can read that.

Logically, The Darkest Hour sets up a good cliffhanger. The season started with the suw. Darkest Hour could stand on its own as either as a season finale or series ender. You leave cliffhangers behind to pick reader interest in what's going to happen next. ST:NG did it very often and very well with mid-season stories and season finales. Does time between stories have any effect? No. That spot is a very good one for giving the season a clear theme: recording what happenned during the suw. And that sets things up for the upcoming season to have a theme: dealing with the aftermath of the suw and the legacy of Madoc. It's better to spend a whole season trying to tie things up from the war than to try to cram stuff in an existing season to tie things up. And by ending the season there, it would have given Pendragon series a chance to start getting back on its own feet a lot sooner.
dph
ar, usa
Sunday, August 14, 2005 02:20:26 AM
IP: 63.232.251.186

A thought of my own about "season finales". I think that a good mark of one is to wrap up the major issues in that story, but leave enough doors open to provide guidance for ideas for next season. A good example of that would be "Hunter's Moon". While resolving many major issues (the end of the war between Goliath and Xanatos, the gargoyles returning to the castle, Goliath and Elisa's first kiss), it also provided room for new stories (the gargoyles have been exposed now to the public, who aren't happy about it, and Jon Canmore's vowed himself to the Hunt in an alarmingly Demona-ish manner).

(The neat thing about Jon Canmore in "Hunter's Moon Part Three", incidentally, was that the writers were careful in how they left the door open for more stories concerning him. Elisa tells Jason, when she visits him in the hospital at the end, that Jon and Demona are "out there, hunting each other". If the series had ended there and not been renewed, the audience could assume that Jon Canmore and Demona would be so busy fighting each other for a long while that neither one would have time to endanger Goliath and his clan. But at the same time, the door is left open for Jon to return - which he would in "The Journey" as Castaway.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, August 13, 2005 09:36:21 PM
IP: 4.245.16.108

Greetings all...

Just wanted to say 'hello', and let my friends know I'm still alive, albiet still dealing with life as it is as someone who is blind (legally that is; vision is 20/400.)...

I've been away from the active avenues of the fandom for too long, and after getting a good talking-up from some friends in another part of the web/world, I've decided to get active again... and hang what anyone else thinks about it, for what's been said in the past.

Expect to hear my comments soon, I've got some catching up to do.


Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL, USA
Saturday, August 13, 2005 09:31:13 PM
IP: 24.28.10.202

Cheers, Todd!

Greg: I like B5 okay: there's a lot that's good about it. But since it was intended to be a 110-chapter telenovel rather than a seasonal drama, I'd argue it isn't an analagous situation to TGS. TGS has dozens of writers and a very high staff turnover between seasons. '24', 'Veronica Mars', 'Murder One', 'Buffy', 'Doctor Who' etc. all do/did complicated season-long stories but brought them to a strong point of closure where most if not all of the outstanding questions that drove the season were answered -- a reward for sticking with the ins and outs of a complicated storyline for up to a year, and the chance to do something different fresh with the next season (particularly if you're asking people to wait years between seasons).
Ed
London, England
Saturday, August 13, 2005 09:14:49 PM
IP: 213.187.38.118

ED> <<The best television shows generally wrap their major season-long plots up by the finale so they can shoot out of the gate in the new season with a fresh focus.>>

I take it you weren't a Babylon 5 fan then.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, August 13, 2005 07:55:07 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

Hi, Ed. Welcome back!
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, August 13, 2005 07:47:30 PM
IP: 4.245.16.108

I owe a ridiculous number of people e-mails, so if any of them are reading this room... sorry! I'm in the middle of moving house, so everything's a bit crazy.

Thanks for the comments on 'Pendragon', Harvester. I've enjoyed reading them so far. Season Four of 'Pendragon' was an absolute blast to work on.

DPH: I think the whole of Season Two could have been handled very differently all around -- TGS seemed to rush to deal with things in a global scale rather swiftly, and I think it lost focus among dozens of regular characters. I sometimes felt the main character of the series was Madoc, rather than Goliath or Arthur. The S2 coda was a nice, and necessary, wind-down. Really, if you're doing a season-long storyline like this, you should draw almost all your season-long arcs to a close before the end of play -- it's not fair on the next season's staff to oblige them to clear up after their predecessors, and it's not fair on the readers either to make them remember things that happened months/years ago. The best television shows generally wrap their major season-long plots up by the finale so they can shoot out of the gate in the new season with a fresh focus.
Ed
London, England
Saturday, August 13, 2005 07:18:57 PM
IP: 213.187.38.118

DPH - So would I, but I guess that your topic just didn't interest that many people here. Of course, you could always re-submit it next week (as I did with my list of ideas that we know Greg Weisman had had for Season Three of "Gargoyles" in the other comment room), and see if maybe this time the rest of the people here will pay it more attention.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, August 13, 2005 06:07:59 PM
IP: 4.245.16.108

Todd - Actually, the suw ended with Darkest Hour. Moving what happens afterwards to a different season works well with me. The idea of season 3 being abotu the aftermath of the suw/dealing with Madoc's legacy works well as a theme for a season. Aftermath works very well as a season premiere for me. I would have liked to have heard more opinions.
dph
ar, usa
Saturday, August 13, 2005 05:23:19 PM
IP: 63.232.249.198

HARVESTER - I'm glad that you liked "The Mists of Eynhallow". This was the first story by Ed Reynolds, who was my co-writer for Pendragon Season Four; practically everything in the fourth season of Pendragon was written by the two of us. He had a lot of interesting ideas for "Pendragon", and although he and I didn't always agree, I think that we made a very good team.

Much of what you saw in "Mists" came out of discussions that we'd had about the characters. For example, the flashback to Leo and Griff in 1918, watching the wounded soldiers returning from the Western Front, originated out of discussions that we'd had over why Griff alone, among the London clan, believed in the notion of protecting the humans of London, while the rest of the clan (or at least, Leo and Una) believed that their concern should be purely for the London clan and its shop and that whatever happened to the humans was their problem. Likewise, the flashback to the death of Fiona Sefton was influenced by some thoughts on how we could make Nigel feel less like a caricature of a stuffy politician - with the idea that the reason why he was neglecting Mary for his career was that he hadn't been able to get over Fiona's death and was throwing himself into his work at Whitehall or Westminster to avoid facing his grief. We also added, in the later drafts, the flashbacks for Morwood-Smythe and Duane when our editor pointed out that we'd neglected them.

Eynhallow is a real place, by the way (which Ed's research had turned up).

Ed also provided one of my favorite lines for Mary in her response to Macbeth: her retort to Arthur's describing Macbeth as an honorable man, "Well, so was Brutus!"

And Mary's becoming squire is only the beginning of some character development for her this season, which I'm particularly fond of. But I'll say no more about it; you'll have to keep on reading.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, August 12, 2005 07:03:55 PM
IP: 4.244.18.179

Coyote: I don't know if you've read any of Spike's (Christi Smith Hayden) fics, but in reguards to What was happening to the gargs at the time of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, There is referance to it in Tengu and she uses the desendands of them in her stories. I know they are up in the archives here if you want to go look.
Annie
Friday, August 12, 2005 06:42:24 PM
IP: 208.187.169.20

Coyote: I'm not upset or anything, but next time, you might want to add a spoiler warning to your post. It's okay, though. If anything, it's like the glass of white that one drinks with the appetizer before switching to red. It improves the appetite. ( ;

Todd: Finished reading "The Mists of Eynhallow" the other night. The main conflict of this one had such a wonderful f*cked up quality to it that really made it flow nicely. Plus it was nice to see some more character development on Mary's part. I never actually realized that before now, Mary was basically like an "outsider." Most of Arthur's allies were either knights, gargoyles (or both), or in the case of Merlin, advisors. Mary didn't really have a status, per se, so it was cool to see her finally come into her own. And I had a feeling in the back of my mind that Titania was referring to the Holy Grail. I was wondering why they'd lose their skiff so early in the voyage, but then at the end, we learn they have a new quest. And this one sounds pretty ominous. Can't wait to read what becomes of it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Friday, August 12, 2005 10:23:59 AM
IP: 69.174.1.148

**delurks**

Taleweaver:>>Normally, I draw a distinction between fan-fiction and reality. But since this is the 60th anniversary of the Hiroshima & Nagasaki bombings and the Gathering folks have only sparsely reported on last weekend. Anyone care to discuss the Timedancer story "I am Become Death"?<<

It got a brief squeak last week before other things took over the discussion, but since we also approach (if not having passed yet) the 60th anniversary of the Nagasaki bombing, perhaps I might chime in on this.

Firstly, this was one of the ideas I came to the TGS staff with initially (after working with Taleweaver to finish up the Season 2 finale), mainly because I had noted so much in Gargoyles had focused on the European theater of World War II (particularly with Griff and prior Timedancer episodes), and something should be done regarding the Pacific. This brought to mind the atomic bombs, and since there were gargoyles in Japan (established during the series), I thought it would be rewarding to try to fit both into a story. So I had the idea of an entire clan in Hiroshima being wiped out by the bomb. Eventually during breakdown talks, the story wound up as it exists now, with the clan in Nagasaki being the one to be wiped out. The Payne storyline was also added to give it continuity with the rest of the season.

I do recall the discussions Todd mentioned regarding how gargoyles in stone sleep would react to being nuked, and as I recall it the answer in the story was the most logical answer we could come up with.

One thing I regret was leaving the staff before I could pitch my last TD story to them, which would have left hope that some of the Nagasaki gargoyles survived. (maybe if I get crazy enough I might write it as an independent fic ... ahh hell who am I kidding, I don't have the time)

Desert Coyote - [DesertCoyote13@hotmail.com]
Tonawanda, New York
Thursday, August 11, 2005 12:08:05 PM
IP: 207.69.137.137

Gside- Be sure to copy and paste that con journal at Ask Greg too ;)
Revel
Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:27:31 AM
IP: 24.182.112.92

I remember that, when we were doing Breakdowns on Season Two, we decided to not make "The Darkest Hour" the season finale because we wanted to show that war doesn't end just because the fighting's over. Kathy and Patrick can probably explain this better than I can, however.

Of course, the Season Three arc for "Pendragon" gave us our share of problems. One was the whole business of rationalizing Morgana's attempt to assassinate the Royal Family (which was part of the original proposal for the arc submitted by Damien "Foggy" Tobin). Tobin's idea was that Morgana wanted to take over Britain and that her scheme was designed as much to allow her to do that as to frame Arthur (of course, if she wanted to take over the country, she'd have to include in the assassination the Prime Minister, the Cabinet, and Parliament as well). The rest of us didn't go for that, however, since we wanted Morgana to be motivated purely by vengeance and not power-hunger (it helped make her more distinct from Demona). In the end, we went for the idea that she was trying to turn the public all the more against Arthur by framing him for a lot of high-publicity crimes.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, August 10, 2005 07:18:39 AM
IP: 4.244.12.182

I was beginning to wonder if my question fell on deaf ears.

Spen - < I personally think that "Re-Emergence" would have made a better season finale, mainly because like "Reprisels" it was rather foreshadowing.> Originally, I thought Re-Emergence was going to be the season finale because it had all the stuff of a season finale.

HOE - <In my opinion, Gargoyles Season 2 could have ended with a story other than "Seeds of Change." I'm not sure about "Darkest Hour," since the aftermath went on for quite a bit as well.> Well to me, thematically, season 2 had a single theme: the second unseelie war. Darkest Hour ended the war and it would have made sense to end the season on that note. Then I would have had Aftermath, parts 1 & 2 be the season opener for gargoyles and had a separate season opener occur for Pendragon taking place around the time Merlin gets back to Manhattan. Everything else beyond Aftermath would have been moved to season 3. It would have given season 3 of gargoyles a definite theme: dealing with the aftermath of the second unseelie war.

Of course, that's just my opinion so it may not count for much. Still, I would like to hear other opinions on this issue.
dph
ar, usa
Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:28:29 AM
IP: 63.232.249.101

DPH: In my opinion, Gargoyles Season 2 could have ended with a story other than "Seeds of Change." I'm not sure about "Darkest Hour," since the aftermath went on for quite a bit as well. I like the parallel Spen drew between "Re-Emergence" and "Reprisals." I could see that ending Season Two for the Manhattan clan. The only problem is that Season 2 of Gargoyles and Pendragon were interconnected, and something happens in London in "Seeds of Change" that sets most of the stage for Pendragon, Season Three
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 10:57:11 PM
IP: 69.174.1.148

Sorry, I thought one of the others had dropped a response. HS 3 went on partial hiatus for the two weeks surrounding the Gathering; I've been told that lain and Gunjack are mostly done fleshing out their scenes- and they have most of them this time- so I need to finish with the handful that fell to me and then we need to do final edits on the whole thing. I'll go on AIM and poke them about it now... I've hardly been online the last three days while I've been re-cooperating.

Not that I've been entirely inactive, it's just that my focus- and Aaron's- has been directed towards wrapping up an ep in Gargs season 4.
Lynati
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 09:33:08 PM
IP: 70.249.45.118

Todd : Thanks For the birthday wish!

Harvester : "If the bombs hadn't been dropped, the war would have gone on for a few more years, and ultimately probably would have taken as many lives as were lost on August 6, 1945" That's debatable.

DPH : " Would tgs's Pendragon and Gargoyles Season 2 have been better if "Darkest Hour" parts 1 & 2 had been the season 2 finale?" Hmm, that's a very good question. I personally think that "Re-Emergence" would have made a better season finale, mainly because like "Reprisels" it was rather foreshadowing.

Todd again : "I prefer fairly detailed reviews over just "read them" - the former is more interesting to read" In that case, you'd probably love my reviews. (Not counting that pathetic excuse for a review I gave for "Hungry Shadows Part 2" I'll make up for that when part 3 comes along. Speaking of which,

Gunjack, Lain and Lynati : I asked this a couple of weeks ago but never got a response. How's "Hungry Shadows Part 3" coming along?
Spen
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 07:52:29 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Dezi > Alas, 'twas not me.
Mecord's Cat
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 12:26:13 PM
IP: 71.32.200.169

Dezi- The Gathering is fun, you should come! I don't know if that's the same Cat, I never asked.

Gside- *bliks* you know I didn't even notice that you had managed to avoid my camera. Crap, and I had plenty of opportunities too.

Revel
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 11:43:17 AM
IP: 24.182.112.92

I can't believe this is the first I've heard of this (I'd heard a movie was in the works, but had no idea that it was coming out so soon). Maybe that means the public is finally bored with Doom.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 09:35:09 AM
IP: 69.174.1.148

Gside> Greg is right. I'm not sure I'd have the creativity (or the nerve) to make my own subtitles.

Thanks to everyone who's commented on "The Last". I'm still looking for help drawing the unstoryboarded scenes (or cleaning up and coloring the remaining scenes from Act1). If anyone has any time to spare, please send me an email (even if you can only do one frame, it would help a lot).
Vashkoda - [vashkoda at glaringdream.org]
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 09:13:49 AM
IP: 129.98.125.133

HARVESTER - Gary Sperling was a story editor for "Gargoyles", who particularly had a large role in making a few of the episodes such as "M.I.A.". He passed on shortly before "Out of the Blue" was released, and so I decided to dedicate the story to him, particularly since Griff, who was introduced in "M.I.A.", is one of the major characters in "Pendragon", plus Leo and Una show up in "Out of the Blue" in supporting roles, and much of the story takes place in their shop.

And, yes, this season was the one where we finally decided to take a serious look at what Arthur's purpose was to be. One bit that I particularly liked writing was the way that Arthur gets snapped out of his depression by the news that Merlin's been attacked by a mysterious personage who could be still out there in London. The idea behind that was that, while Arthur obviously doesn't want any harm to come to his old advisor, at the same time, Selden's attack gives him something to do, in the form of a villain to track down. (One concept that I had behind it was a passage in one of my books about the Arthurian legend, which comments that the knights of the Round Table almost welcome fighting, not out of a brutish love for violence, but because it allows them to put aside their deeper worries and misgivings for the moment and focus on a relatively simple problem, how to overcome a challenging opponent in a contest of strength and skill.) Going after Selden is something that Arthur knows how to do, in contrast to his uncertainties over what his role in the modern world is.

(Selden's name, by the way, is a Sherlock Holmes reference, borrowed from a villainous convict who was one of the characters in "The Hound of the Baskervilles". When I needed a name for him, I picked it from that story, since he was introduced in "The Yorkshire Adventure", which was a general hommage to "The Hound of the Baskervilles" in the "hounds on the moors" concept.)

I found the idea of Arthur revisiting the Hollow Hill as appealing for an additional reason, not only because he'd slept there for so long, but because the Magus was laid to rest there after he died. With one of Arthur's major worries at this point being that Merlin is dying and that there might be nothing able to save him, having another wizard whom he'd known lying before him dead struck me as a dramatic way of displaying that fear of his.

I had some fun writing these two stories, of course, particularly a few minor elements such as Arthur and his knights unwittingly ruining another vacation for Brendan and Margot, or Odin's pet wolves following Mary around during her visit to Avalon, much to her annoyance.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 07:44:28 AM
IP: 4.244.12.199

I am not a number -- I am a free man -- I am also late for the count...
silvadel
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 12:39:10 AM
IP: 24.149.178.180

Revel: I looked at your pics. Cool. Cat as in Mecord's Cat? Either way, whoever it was, the Hunter Thompson thing was soo appropriate. LOL.
...Gee the Gathering looks like fun....
Dezi
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 12:17:06 AM
IP: 68.54.214.198

Todd: Would have written something more in-depth last night, but I needed sleep.

One of the things I liked about the start of Season Four was the manner in which things were set up. "Out of the Blue" brought up a subject which had been briefly addressed in Season Four, and then pushed aside by the Connection business: basically, since he was awakened before his appointed time, what is Arthur's purpose in this new world? So far, the reader hadn't really gotten a sense of just how much this was weighing on Arthur's mind. For some reason, the depression he was feeling at the beginning of the story really hit close to home. And while I don't think finding a cure for Merlin is the task that Arthur is destined to do (i.e., the reason for his awakening), it did at least give him some sense of purpose and snap him out of his haze. But for me, the best moment in the story was between Mary and Morgana. I'd already seen this other side to Morgana in the Timedancer story "Spirits From the Vasty Deep," but now there's a new dimension to it. I have a feeling that at some point in the season, Morgana is going to have to make some sort of decision (something else, not the most obvious one). And out of curiousity, who is Gary Sperling?

When I saw the title "Return to Avalon," I had a feeling that at some point in the story, we'd see Merlin visit his father's grave. What I was not expecting was for Arthur to visit the Hollow Hill. That moment hit even harder than Arthur's depression in the previous story. And I love the way it remained true to Titania's character: she only showed Arthur the path, walking it is still up to him. All in all, it was good to see something driven more by characters than by action. Haven't read one of those in a while. I'm wondering if, back in London, Griff's absence will be an opportunity to expand on what we've already seen between Jane and Brianna. Haven't heard anything about that in a while. Also, has Michael picked a new second yet? The subject was only briefly mentioned in Season Three.

I'm about halfway through "The Mists of Eynhallow," but I just wanted to say that it's damn good to see Macbeth again. Makes me wonder what other familiar characters Arthur and friends might run into.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Monday, August 8, 2005 11:45:06 PM
IP: 69.174.1.148

GSIDE> Yep, I bought the full pre-reg package.

<<And especially the bit of subtitling.>> The bit with "Was I speaking Latin again? Silly me, it kinda slips out."?

That was actually in Greg's handwritten notes on the original script for the episode... I have a copy. But the best of Greg's notes in it is when we get to one of Demona's lines, and Greg has a note for Marina next to it that says "SEXUAL RELEASE!"
Greg Bishansky
Monday, August 8, 2005 11:38:03 PM
IP: 69.118.108.212

Fire Storm> <<after running for a few years, Windows 95 and 98 installs just become unstable>>: Mine must be freakish, then. Four years or so on 98 and just about as stable as when I got it. Granted I do reset once or twice a week, depending how much gaming I do (I blame memory leaks).

Mooncat> <<alcoholic drinks, are very very CHEAP>>: The better to part you from your money.

Revel> <<Just finished posting my Gathering photos>>: Boy do I know how to stay out of the frame.

Greg> <<It was a pleasure hanging out with you>>: Same here.
<<I know we met at 2003>>: I'm sure only briefly. As you said, you were being pulled everywhere.
<<Hope to see you next year>>: As do I. Do you have your pre-reg yet?

So, day two.

Wait, I believe I forgot something from Opening Ceremonies. A partially recreated lyca reel of The Lost (the Team Atlantis episode with Demona). Excellent work on the timing and additional art. And especially the bit of subtitling.

Right, day two.

Skipped out on the first set of panels for brunch, then off to Series Development. There we found out why Steven Speilberg is an evil, evil man (he ruined two pitches for Greg).
Voice Acting was interesting, and it was there that I heard Thom's approach to scripts: "My line, $@!#, !@#$, $!#@, my line, my line..."
I was hoping for more comparisons of style out of the Martial Arts and less of a saftey lecture, but it was still we got at least one good fight out of it.
The comic panel was a nice brief look into the industry and how last minute we were. Greg Guler's Goliath and Eliza that they had at Comicon is the only piece of artwork they have for it.
Then a quick dinner before the Poker Tourney. Kaioto went out early, Thom played mostly by committee, I forget who lost their last chip on a blind, Greg had some good plays, but Chris Rogers eventually pulled through. Fun, but I was hoping for more calling and less folding. And after that, ice cream right before the shop closed for the night. Then a brief trip to the arcade with Greg and Thom. Thom isn't that bad of a marksman. Not spectacular, but better than I with a lightgun.
And to round out the night, Hudson's rant. My British comedy got a brief but funny throwaway, but he elaborated more on my next. I got some love from Revel as he and Spacebabie left for the night, then I pulled out myself before act two.

And I need my sleep again.

Na zdorov'ya.
Gside - [gside@comcast.net]
Fair Haven, NJ
Monday, August 8, 2005 11:11:51 PM
IP: 68.83.187.89

Annnnd 10
Revel - [<------Gathering Photos! In case you missed it the last time]
Monday, August 8, 2005 12:39:05 PM
IP: 24.182.112.92

*flails around a cat o'NINE tails* I feel guilt for snagging one of the top ten spots and then never posting anything else... *slinks away*
Mecord's Cat
Monday, August 8, 2005 12:27:44 PM
IP: 71.32.200.169

I'm a number too!

(wait, wasn't that supposed to be "I'm not a number" ?)

*shrugs* :)


Rodlox
Monday, August 8, 2005 09:50:25 AM
IP: 68.49.173.148

No actually, I'm seven.
Starsinger
Monday, August 8, 2005 07:39:36 AM
IP: 209.240.205.61

Ohhh! Ohhh! I can count to five.
Starsinger
Monday, August 8, 2005 07:38:20 AM
IP: 209.240.205.61

HARVESTER - I'm glad that you liked Pendragon Season Three. I think that it helped that we ended Season Two with Arthur facing an external threat (being framed as a gunsmuggler, with British law enforcement now being after him), while the Manhattan clan wasn't facing anything similar.

So, now that you've read both "Out of the Blue" and "Return to Avalon", what did you think of them? (I prefer fairly detailed reviews over just "read them" - the former is more interesting to read.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, August 8, 2005 06:53:17 AM
IP: 4.244.12.21

Fifth!
Spen
Monday, August 8, 2005 04:34:40 AM
IP: 207.177.11.252

4th!
Leo
Monday, August 8, 2005 01:58:21 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

I have a tgs-related topic that should jump start the room. Would tgs's Pendragon and Gargoyles Season 2 have been better if "Darkest Hour" parts 1 & 2 had been the season 2 finale? It's something that I have wondered for a while, and yes, I have my own opinion which I'm going to wait before sharing.
dph
ar, usa
Monday, August 8, 2005 01:31:02 AM
IP: 63.232.248.192

3rd!!
dph
ar, usa
Monday, August 8, 2005 01:19:52 AM
IP: 63.232.248.192

And while we're on the subject of "First Knight," I'm wondering just what the hell possessed Jerry Zucker to direct that movie. Fortunately, few people really know he directed it and instead remember him for the far better movies associated with his name, such as "Airplane!", "Top Secret," "The Kentucky Fried Movie," and all things Police Squad. The remake to "Rat Race" looked like it would be pretty good, until the very end, when Hollywood just blatantly sprayed wet shit into the mouths of the movie-going public. Anyone who likes movies should have been offended by it. Honestly, after seeing the ending to "Rat Race," I felt like a rape victim. So that, coupled with "First Knight," makes me wonder if Jerry Zucker has just completely sold out.

Greg: One thing I've never been able to figure out is Richard Gere's appeal. He's really not that good an actor. When he's in a movie, I generally wind up not liking the movie. The only exception to both things I just said, at least I think so, is "Primal Fear." Of course, I was more impressed with Edward Norton than I was with Gere, but still, good movie.

Todd: I've actually finished the first two stories of the fourth season. One of the things I liked about Season Three is that the staff managed to keep things interesting for Arthur and his knights after the Second Unseelie War. Madoc and the Unseelies were the driving plot device for most of the second season of both Gargoyles and Pendragon, and when that ended, I felt that while the third season of Gargoyles had its moments (most noteworthy were "Contingencies" and "The Council"), it wasn't as interesting as Season Two. I'd have to say that so far, what's happened in Pendragon in the wake of the Unseelie conflict has been a lot more engaging.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Monday, August 8, 2005 12:46:59 AM
IP: 69.174.1.148

#2... And this just in: Peter Jennings has died.
Dezi
Monday, August 8, 2005 12:25:42 AM
IP: 68.54.214.198

Takes a break from watching Adult Swim to snag Number One.
Harvester of Eyes
Monday, August 8, 2005 12:08:33 AM
IP: 69.174.1.148