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Help, my master, dph, has been kidnapped.

*flips a switch and survillance video starts showing:

A small mysterious cloaked figure, named "kped final exam", materializes in the cr, looking around. Moments later, a slightly cloaked figure, named "database final exam", enters the cr through the air events. Suddenly, through a door in the floor, a medium sized ogre, named "election day", walks in. A slightly large and rather ambigously shapped figure, named "vb.net final exam", crashes through the cr roof and starts looking around. A huge and incredibly ambigiously shaped breaks through the cr walls and starts looking around. Unfortunately they spot our protagonist, dph, hidding in the 2nd darkest corner in the cr, quickly run, and grab him. The ogre then is heard saying "Ezigrene", and with that, all the figures, including dph, disappear.*

dph's hologram speaks, "I'm offering a 10 chocolate cyber cookie reward for anybody who find my master and bring him back in the cr before Thursday night."

*dph's hologram flips another switch, and holographic mistletoe, waiting/wanting to be mutated, shows up in this cr.*
dph's hologram
ar, usa
Monday, December 12, 2005 12:10:59 AM
IP: 63.232.251.155

Bit dead today.
Spen
Sunday, December 11, 2005 08:16:12 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

HARVESTER - The scene with the Professor and Lucy comes halfway through the ending credits.

* SUMMARY FOLLOWS - SPOILERS *

He tells Lucy about how she won't be able to get back into Narnia through the wardrobe, but she might get back some other way eventually, in a speech adapted from his closing speech in the book. After they leave the room, the wardrobe door swings open a little, and we hear Aslan's growl from deep inside it.

* SUMMARY/SPOILERS END *

Maugrim was voiced by Michael Madsen.

Lewis objected to visual representations of Aslan in a dramatized version because, during his lifetime, it would only have been possible (aside from animation) through a person in a lion suit, which seemed too pantomime-ish to him. CGI wasn't around at the time, remember.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, December 11, 2005 07:12:08 AM
IP: 4.244.12.111

Wow. For some reason, I got my DVD a lot quicker than I thought I would. I expected it to come next week, but it got here two days after it shipped. Not that I'm complaining. I'm just surprised, since I ordered it standard shipping.

*WARNING: "CHRONICLES OF NARNIA" SPOILERS*
Todd: When did the Professor say this to Lucy? I just remember it ending with Peter telling the Professor that he wouldn't believe what they'd been up to if they told him, and the Professor replying with, "Try me." But I didn't stay to watch the whole credit sequence. Usually I stay to watch the credits, but I was there with a friend and it was a late show. So it might have happened after we left, during the credits or after.

Anyway, I read an article in my local paper which decried the visual aspects of it, saying that it put too much emphasis on flashy effects. But honestly, since we're dealing with a lot of animals, I would rather see a CGI beaver than a guy in a beaver suit. But I rarely listen to reviews anyway, and I thought the visuals were handled very well. As far as I'm concerned, the movement of the animals was lifelike, and the voice actors did a great job of giving them personality. I thought Liam Neeson was an interesting choice for Aslan, especially since it was such a contrast from the booming voice he had in the animated movie (speaking of the animated movie, it was good to see Father Christmas give them their gifts this time, the way it happened in the book). But given the implied metaphor behind his character, I think Neeson's voice served him better as a guide and counselor. For some reason, IMDB does not have a credit listing for Maugrim, but I'm 90 percent positive the voice was supplied by Michael Wincott, a great but little-recognized character actor. IMDB has a credit listing for Wolf, but I don't think it was Maugrim. Whoever it was, he was superb. The casting was quite spot-on as well, especially for the witch. I mean, this review also said that her acting was too frozen, but I thought that's what she was supposed to be. Ah, well. I thought she kicked ass.

One of my favorite small touches is that instead of shooting a beam that turns people to stone, the witch's staff was more like a spear. I too also liked the way they chose to begin the movie. In addition to setting up more of a background for the children (and giving us some irony for later), it also did a great job of establishing the rocky relationship between Peter and Edmund that would come into play later.

But I did feel that the ending was a little bit rushed. I think they did a good job of making it clear to people who hadn't read the book that the children had spent quite a few years in Narnia (and they also made it quite clear in the beginning that no time passes in the real world while they're there), but I would have liked just a bit more denouement. But overall, I was very pleased with it. CS Lewis probably would not have been pleased with it (if I remember, he was very opposed to making Aslan a visual character), but I think they did a great job.

*END SPOILERS*

And a quick tip of the hat to Richard Pryor, without whom we would not have most of the comedy we see today. Thanks, Richard, wherever you are now.

*uncaps a stout and goes off to watch Goliath kick Coyote's head off, the way nature intended*

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Saturday, December 10, 2005 10:56:55 PM
IP: 69.174.1.148

BISHANSKY - Too bad about that. But look on the bright side - you got the Season Two Part One DVD a few days ago, anyway! (I wonder which DVD Jon got - since he hasn't shown up here to the best of my knowledge, we'll probably never know.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, December 10, 2005 08:41:51 PM
IP: 4.244.12.41

LYNATI> Okay, I called home and asked them to open my package. They sent me the First Season.

I think I'll ping Marty as well.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, December 10, 2005 08:34:35 PM
IP: 65.33.202.237

Lynati : Cross out what I just said, you should be getting an e-mail tomorrow
Spen
Saturday, December 10, 2005 06:16:23 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Thank you, Greg.
Lynati
Friday, December 9, 2005 11:26:25 PM
IP: 69.154.246.254

LYNATI> My prize is actually being sent to the house in NY, while I'm still at the apartment here in Orlando.

I will be home a week from Sunday, and I'll be sure to let you know when I find out.

::Tries calling home only there is no answer::
Greg Bishansky
Friday, December 9, 2005 08:40:14 PM
IP: 65.33.202.237

SPEN - Ah, thanks for making your comment clearer.

Went out to see the "Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" movie today.

*SPOILERS FOLLOW *

I very much enjoyed it. It made a few inevitable deviations from the book - more on account, I get the feeling, of how things that work in one medium don't necessarily work as well in another. Thus, the Pevensies get a bit more of an adventure during their flight from the beavers' dam to Aslan's camp (coming out via an escape tunnel while Maugrim and his wolves are clawing their way into the dam, floating down the river of melting ice, etc.), and they flesh out the air raids on London that force their evacuation. (In the process, they also bring up the almost ironic situation that I'd recently noticed about the story; the children get sent away to the Professor's house to escape the war - and wind up getting involved in another war, though one where they aren't just frightened civilians trying to get out of the way.)

There are a couple of omitted bits that I would have liked seeing (such as Mrs. Beaver considering taking her sewing machine with her during their flight, explaining that while she knows they can't use it on the run, she can't stand the thought of the White Witch meddling with it), but on the whole, it felt faithful to the original book.

One touch that I liked at the end was the Professor telling Lucy that they won't be able to get back into Narnia through the wardrobe with the words, "Believe me, I've tried". This and his response to Peter and Susan's account of how Lucy first got into Narnia through the wardrobe become much clearer if you've read "The Magician's Nephew".

While it avoided being a "Lord of the Rings" rip-off, one part did remind me of the LotR movies, when the map of Narnia turns into the battlefield site between Peter's army and the White Witch's forces.

*SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, December 9, 2005 06:56:35 PM
IP: 4.245.19.225

Thanks for the DVD well-wishers. : )

Hey Greg, if your prize happens to show up today or tomorrow, will you let me know if yours is also from a Culver City CA address? And if yours is, er, also Season ONE? 'Cause I was just given a delivery of a package from the above city, and unless someone is randomly sending me a gargs season 1 DVD and their name is really "public relations", I think I need to drop a line to Marty.
Lynati
*insert confused look here*
Friday, December 9, 2005 06:20:09 PM
IP: 69.154.246.254

Todd : "Yes, the Garlon of TGS was named after the Garlon of Arthurian legend" That wasn't exactly what I meant. I meant that the Garlon in Lords of Magic was named that because of his role in Arthurian legend. (Though, it is technically possible that they got the name from TGS; the game came out a couple of years after Garlon was introduced.)

Thanks for letting me know about my mistake about Paramount, I really can't belive I frelled up that much.

Congrats to Greg B., Lynati, and Jon!

Green Baron : Thanks for clairifying that.

Rodlox : "Myrtle'll never cut-and-run on Harry." If I recall correctly, neither did Parvati.
"Didya notice how long it took Harry to get _anyone_ to go to the dance with him?" Mainly because he wanted to go with Cho, and so turned down a couple of offers.

Todd again : Heh, I still do things like that myself. Of course, you probably know by now that I'm a very morbid and ghoulish person.

Lynati : Some bad news. Your e-mail will be a bit later then planned. Mainly because we no longer have a go-between.
Spen
Friday, December 9, 2005 04:37:10 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

HARVESTER - Ah, then they did have legal permission. Good thing for them, too.

I remember when I read the Silmarillion as a boy drawing a family tree for the Noldorin leaders (such as Feanor, Fingolfin, and the rest), and then crossing out each name when the character to whom it belonged was killed. (Fairly morbid, I know, but I was ten or so at the time.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, December 9, 2005 10:14:46 AM
IP: 198.209.226.130

Todd: I'm about 100 pages into the Silmarillion, and I do have to agree with you that Tolkien was a stickler for detail. I find myself re-reading some paragraphs, since they remind me of those lengthy Bible passages, where people keep begatting other people.

Anyway, to answer your question from last week, I think that when Konami did make "Symphony of the Night," they got permission from Tolkien's estate (Konami is one of the more professional game companies out there). It would be one thing if they just took names from the Silmarillion. That MIGHT be written off as coincidence. But the descriptions of a lot of the weapons and items make one think that they have Tolkien's book in mind (for example, an item called the Ring of Varda is described in the sub-menu as being a "golden ring to rule over all").
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Friday, December 9, 2005 09:08:12 AM
IP: 69.174.1.148

Spen:
>>"I think Harry shoulda asked Myrtle to the Yule Ball. to me, if anything coulda gotten her out of that room, it'd be Harry."
> Yeah, probaly true, but that brings up the question of why Harry would ask her in the first place.

well, my logic was
a) Myrtle'll never cut-and-run on Harry.
b) Didya notice how long it took Harry to get _anyone_ to go to the dance with him?
c) Asking her to the dance, would be about the only way to get her out of that room. (okay, so Harry might not think of that)
...there may've been other reasons, but I can't recall them offhand.

happy holidays & have nice days!

Rodlox
Friday, December 9, 2005 02:26:27 AM
IP: 65.190.246.235

A Bah Humbug to all and to all a Bah Humbug :)

Ed> I recall Galloway has a very pro-gay voting record as an MP, but I guess that would change now that he is courting third worlders who have very nasty methods of killing and torturing homosexuals. He is also married to Arafat's niece and has ties to Sadaam, plus now he is schilling for Syria's dictator, and his rhetoric is similar to David Duke (he's basically the same as a member of the British National Party who keeps his hair combed instead of shaved, wears a good suit,a nd woudlmasquerade as a Tory, only in the US, a political party can't expel individuals from their ranks, though they can ostaricze them). I also find it may not have been a coincidence that Galloway's victory resulted in a Jewish MP being defeated.

For a High School Biology class, I'd consider the cell structure and dissection of frogs and worms to be bread and butter, along with basic stuff about the human body. Darwin may get a nod, especially if there was discussion about scientists, though I'd see Gregor Mendel as more a staple in the class because of genetics. It was 13 years ago, so I don't remember how much was discussed about him, or even about maro and micro evolution debate, which I have heard of and am not too familiar.

Now, my HS didn't have any sort of subject exams on its own, though there was a Latin Exam that I got Magna Cum Laude in for Latin I, and maybe some other courses had exams like that, but they were not reated to my class grade, so much as tests of knowlegde and doing well could definitely boost one's grade, like if you were a few points shy of an A or so.

For Univeristy, we had ACT and SAT tests that were influentual in where we could go, and for grad school, there are entranceexams like the GRE and GMAT, as well as MCAT and LSAT and PRAXIS, though a College GPA shoudl be at least a 3.0

Spen> Wacko Jacko owns the Elephant Man's skeleton and tried to purchase Lenin's corpse as well as Cromwell's skull.

Todd> That was why I thought Eustace was an American. I have not read Voyage in a long time. I also recall her grades had fallen, too.

Kaioto> Don't say Happy Holidays, say Bah Humbug!!! :)

Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Ft Hood, Texas
Thursday, December 8, 2005 08:27:52 PM
IP: 67.9.79.184

Congratulations, Bishansky and Lynati! (And to Jon as well, except that I've never seem him around either of the comment rooms.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, December 8, 2005 07:52:48 PM
IP: 4.244.12.212

Just wanted to let people know that we've announced the winners of Greg's "Gargoyles, A-Z" contest over at www.creaturecomics.com

Happy holidays!
Marty Lund - [creaturecomics@comcast.net]
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, December 8, 2005 11:52:56 AM
IP: 208.204.155.241

SPEN - Yes, the Garlon of TGS was named after the Garlon of Arthurian legend; thanks for telling us about that, by the way.

And it wasn't Disney that came up with those alarming changes, but Paramount, back when it had the rights. (Incidentally, the LWW movie isn't strictly a Disney one; Disney's only distributing it. It was actually produced by Walden Media.) Indeed, the current director, Andrew Adamson, worked so hard to secure the rights to LWW primarily because he'd heard about those proposed changes and was horrified by them.

I get the impression that Tolkien disliked the Chronicles of Narnia because he thought that they were too slapdash in their construction. For one thing, Lewis borrowed from many different mythologies and genres; you've got talking animals of a "Wind in the Willows" variety, creatures from classical mythology such as fauns, centaurs, and dryads (as a side note, apart from a few mentions of minotaurs in the White Witch's army, there don't appear to be any outright monsters from classical mythology in Narnia, no gorgons, hydras, chimerae, Stymphalian birds, etc.), creatures from northern European legend such as dwarfs and giants, etc - not to mention Father Christmas! Not to mention a number of inconsistencies such as the status of humans in Narnia (in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe", it's stated that the Pevensies are the first humans to visit Narnia, but we later on find out in "The Magician's Nephew" that other humans have come there before them, and in "The Horse and his Boy" we find out that there were at least two long-established human kingdoms in the Narnian world by the time of the Pevensies' arrival), and such unanswered questions as to where Mr. Tumnus and the Beavers were getting the food supplies for the meals that they serve the children from during the White Witch's long winter. Tolkien, on the other hand, was a firm believer in carefully constructed and self-consistent fantasy worlds (just look at the painstaking care with which he created Middle-earth), and no doubt considered Lewis's work on Narnia to be much too slipshod.

(As a sidenote, it recently occurred to me that the Chronicles of Narnia could be considered almost a children's "Faerie Queene" - both works combine elements of medieval romance with classical mythology, with a healthy dose of Christian symbolism added in. We do know that Lewis was quite fond of Spenser's unfinished poem.)

Eustace, I might add, is not an American, but English like his cousins. (It's mentioned at the beginning of "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" that Edmund and Lucy were staying with his family while their parents and Susan were visiting America - maybe that's where you got the "American" part from, Green Baron.)

ED - Good point about Edmund not likely to have gotten much Turkish Delight during the wartime rationing. Though I don't think that it was just the candy that was the motivation for his betrayal; remember also that the White Witch was promising to make him her successor as King of Narnia, with Peter to be one of his courtiers. Edmund is portrayed in the book as very resentful of Peter "bossing him about" as the older brother (the BBC television adaptation from a couple of decades ago did a very good job of dramatizing this particular element, incidentally, IMO), and would clearly have relished the prospect of being able to turn the tables on Peter and be able to order *him* about.
Todd Jensen - [St. Louis]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, December 8, 2005 08:37:54 AM
IP: 4.244.12.84

I hate college policies. My local school district is closed because of bad weather, but nooo I can't find anybody at my local college to call before I drive out there to confirm it's open. **growls at college's stupid policy**
dph
ar, usa
Thursday, December 8, 2005 08:21:04 AM
IP: 63.232.223.35

Green Baron : "Too bad his bonesweren't preserved, as you could sell them to Michael Jackson for a fortune :)" Umm, I don't get it.

Rodlox : "I think Harry shoulda asked Myrtle to the Yule Ball. to me, if anything coulda gotten her out of that room, it'd be Harry." Yeah, probaly true, but that brings up the question of why Harry would ask her in the first place.

Yggdrasil : Welcome back!

Todd : If the movie had incorporated those changes, not only would I not see the film, I would stop watching *anything* Disney puts out. (except for Gargoyles of course).

As an aside, I was playing an old game of mine (Lords of Magic), and in the Arthurian quest, there's a level 10 assasion named Garlon. Now granted, that's probably because of his role in Arthurian mythology, but I thought it might be an interesting TGS related note.

And finally, here's a link to an article I got a kick out of.
Spen
Wednesday, December 7, 2005 09:47:01 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Todd: Yes, I think Umbridge has plenty of standard-issue evil bureaucracy mixed in. As for Edmund... well, given the circumstances in the real world at the time I doubt there would have been much Turkish delight available to him. Plus, I tend to think that having something fairly small as his motive is both truer to the original story and, as importantly, truer to the idea that Edmund is just a kid and acts like a kid.

Green Baron: Galloway has totally gone off on one. He's set up his own party, RESPECT, and has actually managed to get a seat. He picks fights in the media, walked away from the BBC interview after the last election, sues everyone who tries to criticise him. Because he's basically representing a constituency which has a lot of poverty and a very large radical Muslim group. Although he's not big on 'respecting' people like homosexuals now that he's in the pocket of extremist Islamic groups.
Anyway, that's by the by. As for Rowling, she's not-very-secretly a Labour supporter, although I don't think she's campaigned for them in recent years (in 2001 there was a lot about her being wooed by them).
Your biology class sounds a bit odd -- how can you not study Darwin? I would have thought that would be pretty much bread and butter.
The Art/Russian conflict was just a quirk of my school. For the GCSE exams you study for from 14 to 16, you have to do English & English Literature, Maths, Science (in one part or as many as three), a modern foreign language and an art/design GCSE. The school only had the facilities to offer 9 or 10 (depending on whether you did double or triple science) GCSEs so we had 3 choices left over (History, Economics and Russian in my case). The next headmaster caved and so people only had two 'free' choices. Obviously Russian, which just about got together a class each year, couldn't get enough people together. I hear the department has been shut down now. Great shame.
Thanks for the article link, too.
The headmaster refused to oblige kids to do a GCSE in an art/design subject, and so I had an extra option with which I could do Russian, which the school had been offering for some time. The new headmaster bowed to the rules and the fringe Russian department was shut down because
Ed
Wednesday, December 7, 2005 07:51:18 PM
IP: 213.187.38.209

Ft Hood is freezing. It's not supposed to get this cold in Texas, but we have an Arctic front coming in from Canada, and I hope it passes, soon.

Rodlox> Yep, no one is pureblood, though I think Voldemort's mother was close, as they were inbred, and Lucius called teh Waesley patriarch a disgrace to purebloods.

Hermionie's family may have some wizard blood back in the day, like when England considered France a rival instead of a useless ally :)

But maybe it was latent and unpracticed for generations.

Todd> Maybe Tolkein didn't want the competition from fanatsy lovers a hundred years later :) I wonder what GK Chesterton said about the Chronicles, or if he was close to Lewis and Tolkein.

The Pevenises have a ghastly cousin in America who goes to a non-religious school, but he won't be mentioned for another two stories :)

I had Turkish delight when I was in Istanbul and I introduced Lain to it when visiting her. It is excellent, but I doubt I'd sell out family for it..then again I am not too fond of my family :)

Ed> I'd guess Rowling is moreleft-wing, but I don't hear her associated with bullshit George Galloway type causes. I learned that Tony Robison was a bigwig in the Labour Party, but I just think of him as Baldrick if he's on a Labour promotion or such :)

The US does not have that kind of regulatory body, as education is more determined by the states, but some states can be very picky about regulatinsand buearcracy, and teh Teacher's Unions always fight menaingful reforms.

I went to a Catholic school and the teachers were excellent. Also, the whole evolution debate would have been laughed at by most folks in my HS. I don't think Darwin or Intelligent Design was even discused in Biology class, though I think Darwin was on an optional reading list for extra credit projects in the summer.

Now I don't get the conflict with Arts and Russian. The state of Louisiana requires us to get certain credits in various subject fields and the school adds to that requirement. 4 years of English, 4 years of Math, 3 years of Science (though Physics is encouraged to be taken), 2 years of a foreign language (I took three years of Latin), 4 years of Religion (that was a school requirement and an easy A), 3 years of Social Studies, though it may be 4 as they made Geography a required course year round right after I graduated, 3 1/2 years of elective, and 1/2 credit of Fine Arts.

It's sad that I still remember that from 10 years ago.

BTW, here is the article comparing Order to Atlas Shrugged

http://www.cascadepolicy.org/pdf/misc/2003_29.pdf

I do admit Atlas Shrugged is a much tougher read than Harry Potter, but Ayn Rand was not a children's lit writer, which is a real pity as I'd love to introduce my godson to her (that in itself is very odd on so many levels), but that would take a decade before he could begin to appreciate it, and his grandfather would have a heart atatck if a man instructed to assist Little Tommy in Catholicism instead introduces him to Objectivism :)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Ft Hood, Texas
Wednesday, December 7, 2005 07:03:08 PM
IP: 67.9.79.184

ED - Though the school inspector business in the fifth book was, as you said, based on developments in British education, I'd say that it was intelligible to the American audience as well. I've read a commentary on "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" by an American high school history teacher who said that Ms. Umbridge reminded him perfectly of a school official that he'd had to deal with in the past, "now (thankfully) retired", and laughed out loud at much of her behavior. I suspect that some things about schools and how they're run remain the same, regardless of which country they're in.

HARVESTER - Yes, I share your alarm at that. Though one other amusing thing; I've never tasted Turkish Delight myself, but those who have (I've done a little lurking around Narnia forums recently), have commented that it didn't taste all that great (much too sweet), and even took an attitude of "Edmund sells out his siblings for *this*?" (Maybe that's why Lewis put in a mention of it being enchanted Turkish Delight, in case any of his readers thought just that way about that confectionary.) I've found myself recently envisioning a Narnia parody in which Edmund is greedily holding onto a tin filled with Turkish Delight, calling it "My precious", while his brother and sisters wonder whether they haven't stumbled into the wrong story....
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, December 7, 2005 08:13:34 AM
IP: 4.244.12.246

Todd: The adaptation is particularly horrific. It's interesting to hear about the reactions to the book of Tolkien and Green, though.

Green Baron: I think JK Rowling is on the political left. OFSTED is the school regulatory body that was set up in the early 90s to bring school standards into line. Chris Woodhead, a sort of 'hardman' of educational theories went around investigating schools, grading teachers. The problem was (as I witnessed first-hand), a lot of the teachers reacted badly to this. The worst ones raised their game, while the best frequently panicked. One teacher actually repeated for us the last lesson she taught, which she'd prepared us for almost by rote, so that it could go perfectly smoothly. It also followed the introduction of the National Curriculum which a lot of teachers found excessively prescriptive and limiting, especially in science where safety and budgetary concerns ended the practice of a lot of experiments and replaced them with what I know a lot of science teachers considered relatively boring theoretical stuff. Maverick state-sector headmasters (like mine) got criticised for not goose-stepping in line (although he'd turned the school around from a disaster area to one of the best in the country so these were the only areas they could really make criticisms). I would have had to have studied Art or Design instead of being able to do Russian, for example -- a lot of schools couldn't afford to keep up languages like Russian because of the demands of diversifying. (I'm sure this sounds strange to American ears since you guys have a much broader-based curriculum all the way through). The inspector sitting in on the class, the government-approved curriculum, a lot of the actual language from the classroom are a straight satire of OFSTED's inspection methods and attitudes, though given a much more ominous tone. For all their faults, OFSTED have a pretty good reputation, and the National Curriculum has a lot of uses for parents and students since it's a 'safety net' against dire teaching.
Ed
Wednesday, December 7, 2005 05:28:29 AM
IP: 213.187.38.209

Todd: That last tidbit is especially horrifying. I mean, I could forgive a few of the little changes that Tim Burton made in his adaptation of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" (such as Mike Teevee being a video game addict), because these were just minor things that I felt didn't detract too much from the whole. But a woman in a horse-drawn carraige traveling through a world populated by mythical beings that offered fast food would seem a tad out of place (not to mention stupid).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 08:35:11 PM
IP: 69.174.1.148

Here's a few trivia tidbits about the Chronicles of Narnia (and particularly "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe") with the movie only three days away.

1. In the very first draft (which petered out after little more than a paragraph) of the book, the children's names were Martin, Ann, Rose, and Peter, with Peter being the youngest rather than the eldest. I don't know where Edmund and Susan's names came from, but Lucy was named after Lewis's goddaughter, Lucy Barfield, whom LWW was dedicated to.

2. Aslan came into the book relatively late; it was originally going to be a straightforward fairy-tale, inspired in part by little "pictures" that Lewis kept on envisioning, such as a faun carrying parcels through a snowy wood (he started envisioning that one when he was 16) and a queen in a sledge. Then Aslan came bounding in after Lewis began having dreams about majestic lions - and the rest is history.

3. When Lewis began reading LWW to J. R. R. Tolkien (in reciprocation for Tolkien reading the Lord of the Rings to him), Tolkien thought that it was terrible, and said as much. Lewis was so upset that he almost gave up writing the book. Fortunately, before he did so, he showed it to another of his friends, Roger Lancelyn Green (the same Roger Lancelyn Green whose book about King Arthur was one of Greg Weisman's primary sources for the Arthurian material in "Gargoyles" - particularly Percival and Blanchefleur). Green told Lewis, "No, it's a great book, you've got to finish it and get it published", which Lewis did. (Tolkien remained anything but fond of Narnia, however, telling Green that the book "simply won't do".)

4. A very early draft of the movie screenplay had the Pevensies be Americans - they were to be evacuated to the Professor's house either because of an earthquake striking their home in Los Angeles, or else because Edmund had been caught shoplifting a CD. And the White Witch was to tempt Edmund with a cheeseburger and fries rather than with Turkish Delight. Fortunately, all of these horrors were dropped, and the current movie will be far more faithful to the book.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 07:50:36 PM
IP: 4.245.16.66

Spen: Good point; I thought I'd seen that Hermione was the child of two muggles...but the whole matter of "mugblood" confused me. (probably teh fault of the film) I thank you for clarifying the matter.

ps: please ignore that test of mine. (I REALLY need to find a cricket match in my area)

Rodlox
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 06:35:28 PM
IP: 65.190.246.235

...test...

rodlox
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 06:33:25 PM
IP: 65.190.246.235

Rodlox : Um, Hermione is muggle-born, not a half-blood. And while Harry's mother *was* a witch, she was muggle-born, so Harry still counts as a half-blood.
Spen
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 06:12:31 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

I stopped reading the books after _Goblet of Fire_ While I might be induced to return to them if, for example, more than just one character (Snape) was painted with shades of grey (morally, not in terms of cloth)

And I was _generous_ with the HP books!: normally if something's pure-good-vs-pure-evil, I don't read more than one book in the series. (as I read more and more HP, I started to wonder if I should've learned Elvish so I could read Tolkein's sagas)

>Harry isn't a pureblood as his mother is part muggle
...odd; (but thank you for that); what happened to that "We have a witch in the family" that his aunt said.
(I think the books or films said that no pureblood is 100% pure)

[rumor]
a long while back, I'd heard that there was a _possibility_, however vague, that one bad guy might turn good (most folks had their money on Draco, as the most likely), and one good guy might take a few steps toward the Dark Side (again, most money was on Ron)
[/rumor]

just what I'd heard.

Rodlox
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 05:32:14 PM
IP: 65.190.246.235

Rodlox> Harry isn't a pureblood as his mother is part muggle. The Weaseys are as is Sirius Black, and Slytherine'sline seems pure as the Gaunts are inbred as their desire for purity leads them to marry their cousins and they are reduced to poverty, putting a new emphasis on the impoverished gentry common in British history.

I'd also include Snape as a half-beed along with Hermionie.

Todd> Another issue is the variation of bigotry. Slughorne shows his predjudice, when he is amazed by Hermione's brilliance due to her muggle heritage, but it is more like the bigot who mentions his black/Jewish/Catholic/gay friends.

HoE> Boycotts make more sense. When the Blixie Chicks made their self-destructive comments (I of ocurse will never understand why any self-respecting European is a country music fan, but that is another story), there was a similar destruction of their CDs, but the boycott made more sense..of ocurse I boycott country music out of prnciple so no change for me. My father still listens to them and said that if you boycott every dumbass celebrity, you'd have nothing to entertain yourself with.

I blame irrational human behavior on emotions that propel us to do illogical things. Of course, I am much more concerned about the works of Karl Marx, Sayyid Qutb, or the Jack Chick tracts than Harry Potter.

Todd. I'd also say Demona refuses to take personal responsibility for her actionsand how her acts have undoubtedy promoted genocide campaigns against gargoyles, so she uses her hatred of humans to avoid admitting her faults..the same way Broadway became so thoroughly anti-gun to ease part of his feelings of personal responsiility over shooting Elisa Maza, but by the end of the show he owned up to his faults and spared a crimelord.

<spoiler>
Voldeomort was also evil from the start as he was a bad egg at the orphanage instead of choosing evil as most villains tend to do.
</spoiler>

Yggdrasil> I heard aout another election. I predict the Liberals will win, and the best hope the CPC is to join the Liberals and back Stronach or Briosn as PM.

Oddly enough, Jack Layton is backing a two tier healthcare system, which doesn't seem in character for him, but maybe he's just a dippy dipper :)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Ft Hood, Texas
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 09:23:16 AM
IP: 67.9.79.184

RODLOX - I find it appropriate, as a matter of fact, that Voldemort would be a half-breed. Hatemongers often aren't all that "racially pure" (I've even heard it said that that can even fuel their racial hatred, because they feel ashamed of themselves and impure on account of their "mixed ancestry", and engage in vehement behavior against other races as a means of compensation).

I've sometimes wondered, incidentally, if that could be one reason why Greg Weisman and Co. came up with the idea of Demona turning into a human in the daytime from the end of "The Mirror" onwards, as the "Gargoyles" version of the concept.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 07:19:18 AM
IP: 4.244.12.102

Greetings;

I'm Back.

Wow this has not been a fun quarter. As some of you know, I had to skip the Gathering this year due to health reasons. I needed surgery, which went fine, but they found another problem, which required more surgery (Thank you universal healthcare). Now that that's out of the way, I'm pretty much back to normal...except I had to re-start my PhD.

My supervisor developed health problems and had to retire, this resulted in my taking a position at another lab, in a related, but not exact field. I still get to keep the research that I made, but I'm looking at a whole year down the tubes.

On to happier things, My Gargoyles Season 2 DVD arrived today. Thank you Amazon.ca for shipping before street date.

Its bloody cold up here, the government is corrupt, and I have politicians knocking at my door (They're like roaches).

All the best
Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
ON, Canada
Monday, December 5, 2005 10:46:03 PM
IP: 72.140.113.58

Ed: <And perhaps the reason 'Half-Blood Prince' is on the bestsellers charts while being decried by religious groups is because they're buying all the copies to burn? ;)>

Wouldn't surprise me. When I first saw old newsreel footage of fundamentalists burning and steamrolling Beatles records (after Lennon made his infamous remark), my first reaction was that it would have been more effective if they had simply urged a boycott, since they were still giving money to the record company. But humans are funny. We really are just rats in a maze.

Starsinger: Another fun thing you can try is to follow the exact same steps that Ann provided, except for Step 2, type in the word "failure." I also recommend this to Greg B., Gunjack, and Lain. They'll definitely get a kick out of it (if they don't already know about it). ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Monday, December 5, 2005 09:53:25 PM
IP: 69.174.1.148

about Harry Potter -- What I find curious is the role of the "pure-blood" and "half-blood" wizards (despite, as one character observed, everybody's got *some* muggle blood)....
PureBloods: Harry, Draco, Ron
HalfBloods: Hermione, Voldemort
(I'll ignore how both the Heroes and Villains seem to enjoy breaking\flouting the rules that they're supposed to be following)

one last observation: I think Harry shoulda asked Myrtle to the Yule Ball. to me, if anything coulda gotten her out of that room, it'd be Harry.

Rodlox
Monday, December 5, 2005 09:52:01 PM
IP: 65.190.246.235

The tabloid mention reminds me of what was perhaps my favorite part of the "Goblet of Fire" movie, where Rita Skeeter, during her interview of Harry, keeps on getting his age wrong, even though he corrects her every time that she does so - and winds up including the wrong age in the finished report in the Daily Prophet!

ED - Good point on which religious holiday "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" is really linked to, though the Christmas part fits in well with Aslan's arrival. And Narnia has just emerged into spring at the time that the White Witch kills Aslan and he returns to life afterwards, which fits with the Easter timing. (From Christmas to Easter in just two days! Now there's a real rush through the calendar.)

I can understand why churches would be telling their congregations about the inner meaning of Narnia, but I think that it's misguided. Lewis said that he'd set the Christian elements up in such a way so that his readers could help understand what the basic concepts of Christianity were about, without including the familiar Sunday school trappings that tend to scare them off; he described it as allowing them to creep "past watchful dragons". Thus his version of the Crucifixion and the Resurrection is done in a fantasy setting - a talking lion tied to a large stone table that looks as if it could be standing in the middle of Stonehenge without seeming incongruous, and put to death by an evil witch and her army of minotaurs, werewolves, goblins and ogres, rather than a conventional biblical nailing to a cross outside Jerusalem. But spelling it out to the audience risks awakening the dragons standing guard. (I might add that, even though I'm a Christian and come from a devout Christian family, when I first read the Chronicles of Narnia as a boy, I never once found myself thinking of the Crucifixion during Aslan's entire ordeal on the Stone Table - indeed, the only part of the books where I found myself thinking of Jesus was Aslan's remark at the end of "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" that he's known in our world as well, though by another name. And even that didn't linger with me.)

I've got to say that it sounds foolish for the people who dislike Harry Potter to buy all those books in order to burn them, since they're boosting sales that way. Of course, it'd be wrong to steal them from the bookstores, either. Probably the best solution would be for the bookburnings to be conducted entirely by ex-Harry Potter fans who have repented and display their repentance by burning the books that they'd bought while fans. Though I don't think that there are too many people in that category out there.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, December 5, 2005 07:35:01 PM
IP: 4.244.12.109

Ed> I am not as savvy about some of teh allegories in Rowlings books, but I do remember reading a book comparing The Order of the Pheonix to Atlas Shrugged, though I don't know if JK Rowling has any objctivist leanings.

I do see elements of Voldemort as a Nazi with his beleifsin racial purity, though he hasn't proposed wholsale genocide of muggles, yet. I also see his fascination with the founders of Hogwarts, and his reactionary stances on wizards ruling over muggles (as Lucius called it the old ways). I also don't know what OFSTED is, but that may be because I am not a European, or an Englishman.

Starsinger> I Highly recommend the Chronicles of Narnia. I also recommend Atlas Shrugged, but Chroniles are a much easier read :)

Another fun google search is History's Greatest Monster :)

Taleweaver> A good friend of mine actually bought the propaganda against D&D and he's not a fanatic...actually he's an Orthodoc Protestnat who hasn't gone to Curch since the Methodists became too PC for him. I showed him some of the Historical stuff and his attitude has changed dramatically as he sees D&D as a gateway to get kids interested in history.

I would be more worried about what was inspired by Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Mein Kampf, or The Communist Manifesto than fantasy books. I will howeevr make Harry Pothead jokes:

Harry Pothead and the Sorceror is Stoned
Harry Pothead and the Chamber of Hash (with house elf Dooby)
Harry Pothead and the Prisoner of Drug Rehab
Harry Pothead and the Goblet of Acid
Harry Pothead and the Order of Amphitameans
Harry Pothead and the Half-Kilo Prince

<<sort of the way US politicians say God bless America at the end of their speeches>>
Or saying God Bless you when someone sneezes. Even Ayn Rand used such references at times and she was an atheist.

Spen> Mozart is one of my favorite musicians, but he lived recklessly. Too bad his bonesweren't preserved, as you could sell them to Michael Jackson for a fortune :)

DPH> Hypocrisy among humans is nothing new. Now if they wanted to boycott L Ron Hubbard, that would be more understandable :)
Green Baron - [greenbaron@hotmail.com]
Ft Hood, Texas
Monday, December 5, 2005 07:34:57 PM
IP: 67.9.79.184

Todd - See, I suspected hypocrisy from the get go. I know of churches going out to see The Chronicles of Narnia and the 1st thing that popped in my mind was the hypocrisy of how that is treated vs Harry Potter. I think the religious boycott against Harry Potter is utterly stupid. I know I probably couldn't get a straight answer out of the religious right for why Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of Rings, etc is seemingly ok but Harry Potter isn't. Besides I already have a few issues with my own pastor about certain happennings in my church.
dph
AR, USA
Monday, December 5, 2005 06:55:05 PM
IP: 161.31.67.93

On this day in history: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart dies, 1791. Seven years later his bones are scatterd so his grave can be reused.
Spen
Monday, December 5, 2005 04:30:56 PM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Er, 'twas me.
Ed
Monday, December 5, 2005 03:05:13 PM
IP: 213.187.38.209

Taleweaver: Yes, the tabloids stand out too. A lot of the Hitler-like elements in Voldemort's personality and agenda too. And if you get too into it, there's a lot of the McCarthy trials in there, the AIDS scare. There are others I'm probably forgetting. The European bureacracy thing with Percy and the OFSTED storyline probably felt the most on-the-nose specific, though.

And perhaps the reason 'Half-Blood Prince' is on the bestsellers charts while being decried by religious groups is because they're buying all the copies to burn? ;)
Anonymous
Monday, December 5, 2005 03:04:40 PM
IP: 213.187.38.209

Diaz!
Revel
Monday, December 5, 2005 01:05:49 PM
IP: 70.185.6.104

9th. Rawr!
Mecord's Cat
Monday, December 5, 2005 12:32:33 PM
IP: 65.103.247.157

8th!
Leo
Monday, December 5, 2005 12:25:26 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Ed> Re Rowling: And don't forget tabloid newspapers. They're on her list too.

Potter vs Narnia> For the actual differences, I'd recommend reading both series. I'm currently cutting through "The Horse and His Boy". As far as its reception among relgious groups and the like, I'd say it boils down to perceptions.

Having recently read "The Lion, the Witch & The Wardrobe", I saw some obvious mentions of Christianity, but nothing that meets the test for allegory. (Todd's right in calling it a transplant.) But I guess mentioning or acknowledge God in the Christian sense is all that's needed (sort of the way US politicians say God bless America at the end of their speeches)

As for opposition to Harry Potter,trust me this isn't the first time nor the last some overly religious types take on some popular cultural icon. When I was a teen it was Dungeons & Dragons that drew ire. Before D&D is was Oujia boards and after D&D it was the Goth trend. I think it really just a way to say relevant. Otherwise they'd still be decrying Madonna's "Like a Prayer" video twenty years out. And besides, 'Goblet of Fire' is still #1 in the Box Office, three weeks in a row and 'Half-Blood Prince' is still on the bestsellers list, so if religious groups are opposed to Rowling, they aren't doing a very good job.
Taleweaver
Monday, December 5, 2005 11:01:43 AM
IP: 4.231.181.184

To paraphrase the song once again, "[6] is no longer alone." Think that's accurate this week.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Monday, December 5, 2005 10:42:48 AM
IP: 69.174.1.148

Todd: Yes, I think the idea of the stories being 'transplanted' rather than allegorised seems more appropriate. It's also consistent with the section in (I think?) "Voyage of the Dawn Treader" where Aslan says that he exists in the real world, but in a different form.

(The irony of the story, it seems to me, is that although the book is strongly associated with Christmas, it's actually talking about the Easter story).
Ed
Taunton, England
Monday, December 5, 2005 10:17:22 AM
IP: 213.187.38.209

ED - Good point, although "allegory" doesn't strike me as the most accurate term for Narnia. According to Lewis, Aslan's being killed by the White Witch at the Stone Table and coming back to life again afterwards isn't an allegory of the Crucifixion and the Resurrection, but rather one possible answer to the question "What form would the Crucifixion and Resurrection have taken if Jesus had come to a world that was populated by talking animals and mythical creatures - such as fauns and centaurs - rather than by humans?"
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, December 5, 2005 07:29:23 AM
IP: 4.244.12.44

I 'll take the fifth. I haven't read the CofN yet, its on my list.
Starsinger
Monday, December 5, 2005 07:27:19 AM
IP: 209.240.205.61

Also, C.S. Lewis uses Christian allegory pretty heavily throughout his books, which makes the Narnia stories pretty good teaching aids for specific Christian stories. JK Rowling's books are moral in different ways: personal ethical issues, class, racial prejudice, self-esteem and relationship issues, generational conflict etc. Her metaphorical material tends to be targeting specific organisations, programmes or ideologies: OFSTED, school Amnesty organisations, EU bureaucracy etc.
Ed
Monday, December 5, 2005 07:23:43 AM
IP: 213.187.38.209

DPH - I think that a lot of it comes from the fact that the main child characters in the Harry Potter books (Harry, Ron, and Hermione) are wizards, learning magic and practicing it, and the child characters in the Chronicles of Narnia aren't (magic in Narnia is generally left in the hands of the villains such as the White Witch, or else a term used to describe something miraculous, such as the wardrobe serving as a gateway to Narnia, for example).

I think that part of the issue is ultimately semantics; the word "magic" is used to mean so many things, both real-world occultism and black magic (which is how the opponents of the Harry Potter series define it), and also the unusual things that go on in fairy tales and fantasy stories. Galadriel in "The Lord of the Rings" summed up the confusion perfectly when she told Frodo and Sam that her Mirror was what the hobbits "would call magic... though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy." (It's all the more appropriate that it's in "The Lord of the Rings" that such a point would be brought up, since Tolkien was a philologist who was strongly interested in words, and may well have been pointing out here just how casually we use the word "magic" for so many things. There are a couple of other passages in "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" which make similar possible comments on careless use of words and phrases, as when Merry and Pippin ask Treebeard what he is going to do with them.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, December 5, 2005 06:56:05 AM
IP: 4.244.12.44

Second!
Spen
Monday, December 5, 2005 05:24:58 AM
IP: 207.177.11.252

Just to give the room a topic for this week and to give me some information, can somebody compare Harry Potter to The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe? I was wondering how the former gets denounced by 'Christian' leaders while the latter is praised and the quick difference that came to my mind was the writer of the latter is somebody highly respected by those 'Christian' leaders.
dph
ar, usa
Monday, December 5, 2005 02:13:51 AM
IP: 63.232.250.150

1st!!
dph
ar, usa
Monday, December 5, 2005 01:01:55 AM
IP: 63.232.250.150