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Actually the x-gene was merely unstable which is why it turned out to be fatal -- mainly because it wasnt "supposed" to be on in the person...
I would figure that in someone who was a native mutant said treatment might very well work to restore their powers.
At any case it would be worth a try...
As for it being in magnetos character -- magneto is very loyal. He just has been through A LOT and has a moral compass that points in an odd direction.
silvadel
posted @ Mon, Jun 12, 2006 1:51:32 am EDT from 24.149.178.180
Ok so I'm kinda getting my friend into the series (and read to him two Timedancers earlier today) and now we're re-watching season 1. He brought up a question that I'm gonna pass off to you all. At first the answer seemed easy but then...I don't know.. OK:
If a gargoyle is in stone sleep, and you saw off his wing, then try to re-attach it, when he wakes up, will it still be functional? Will it still be a part of the gargoyle? or will it just fall off with the stuff you used to glue it back on...
At first I answered no, that wouldn't work, because, well, I pictured the person using mortar or concrete or something like that, and that won't turn to life..but then there's Coldstone. I know some parts of him were put back together by magic but they still had to glue the crumpled stone parts together. I always assumed the robot parts were to replace the parts that had disintegrated at the massacre, and that the magic was used to breathe life back into the stone form...but what did they use to glue the stone bits together?
There, have fun. We all might win over a convert on this one.
Dezi
Want to pinch!
posted @ Sun, Jun 11, 2006 10:18:53 pm EDT from 68.58.30.120
I finally told the moron about my trip to Los Angeles (without even mentioning the Gathering).
He's threatened to take away the car and write me out of the will if I go. All because I owe him some money and haven't been able to pay for house insurance and car insurance over the years, but I can afford to make this one trip.
*goes off to take a nap.*
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sun, Jun 11, 2006 3:07:37 pm EDT from 63.232.251.13
Silvadel> Obviously, as the first movie demonstrated, Magneto couldn't just mutate humans. What he did was an unnatural, and fatal mutation. Why would he succeed this time if he couldn't last time?
Yes, what he did was cold, but it was still consistent with his character.
Greg Bishansky
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sun, Jun 11, 2006 2:48:18 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45
I was VERY dissipointed with Xmen 3. The characters did not stay within their roles -- so many times they did things I wouldnt ever envision their characters doing. One of the worst parts was when Magneto just abandoned Mystique -- I mean we are talking someone who did enough research to be able to activate latent X-genes in humans(even if it was unstable) -- I would have to figure that he could come up with SOMETHING to reverse the anti-mutation given time and he is a LOT more loyal than that showed.
silvadel
posted @ Sun, Jun 11, 2006 2:42:43 am EDT from 24.149.178.180
I did rather like the big Apocalypse scheme in "X-Men: Evolution", of planning to turn every human into a mutant. Truth to tell, if I'd been one of the X-Men, I'd have been tempted to just let him do it, to see if, once all those anti-mutant bigots out there had to start experiencing what life was like as a mutant, maybe it'd get them to start rethinking their prejudices. (I'd have been even more strongly tempted, in fact, if it wasn't for the fact that the process would kill many of the humans.)
(Also on the subject, I once wrote a parody of the Lord of the Rings - mainly the movies, but with some elements from the book - as done with the X-Men - mainly from "X-Men: Evolution", but borrowing from a few other versions - in which Apocalypse played the part of Sauron and Magneto of Saruman. It's probably appropriate casting, since both Apocalypse and Sauron are remote figures, while Magneto and Saruman are seen more close-up (not too surprising from the movie perspective, since Sauron spends most of the movies as a CGI eyeball while Saruman's getting played by a noteworthy human actor like Christopher Lee).)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Jun 10, 2006 6:53:29 pm EDT from 4.245.19.77
The best thing Apocalypse ever did was give us the Archangel. I always thought the Angel was boring before his transformation.
Harvester of Eyes
"Well, I'll just waltz on down to the 'Free Present Store!' You think I have money to buy all that?" -Santa Claus
posted @ Sat, Jun 10, 2006 3:14:54 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196
MECORD> Thing about Apocalypse is, pretty much every plan he's ever tried to enact (with the possible exception of his first appearance) has been complete crap. He's got a killer rep, but you have to look beneath the surface: is he actually an interesting character? Has he really done anything too villainous? His greatest success has been in an alternate reality, for crying out loud... what's our Poccy ever done? And sadly, the answer is: not much. We're told frequently that his power is immense... but again, when is that evidenced? He doesn't fight hand-to-hand too often. His powers are entirely generic- shape-changing, getting bigger, super-strong, fire energy blasts.
Just as an exercise, stack Apocalypse up against Magneto: Mags has interesting, innovative powers; a deep, nuanced backstory; a philosophical stance that you can actually relate to, sometimes even support; and actual character development on his side. Poccy has none of those things, with the arguable exception of a mildly interesting backstory. It's just not enough. When Apocalypse is due to appear, I roll my eyes and think, "Oh crap, three months of bellowing about 'Survival of the fittest!' and world-shattering events, at the end of which absolutely nothing will be different."
Which, frankly, is Apocalypse's other problem as a character- his rep is such that every appearance has to be a MEGA HUGE EVENT, after which the X-Men's lives "will never be the same!" And then the story comes and goes, and the status quo is exactly the same, except Cyclops is dead for three months or Wolverine is evil but will probably be good again in the other 5 books he appears in this month. You can do a one-off issue with Magneto, you can do a story investigating Mystique's past, or Sebastian Shaw's motivations for what he does. You try to do anything less than an ultra-big life-altering story with Apocalypse, it ain't happening. He's the summer blockbuster of X-Men villains... and like most summer blockbusters, the first one was pretty fun but most of the sequels have sucked, and sucked hard.
But hey, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong.
Greg Bishansky
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sat, Jun 10, 2006 12:31:42 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45
Lady Mystic- I just checked out the design for the beta site, and while I've been fine with the old design, your new one is *hot*. And pretty as the current design is, it will be nice to have a fresh look. *very* pretty.
Only things I would have to suggest so far is finding some way to differentiate the "current" link under the stories, maybe italicize it, and swap the material and comment room blocks - I've recently thought access to the forum should come before the supplementary material, so it visible on first view without having to scroll down.
Lynati
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2006 12:21:01 pm EDT from 70.245.206.167
Lady Mystic - I sent you a fresh email.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jun 8, 2006 5:14:26 am EDT from 63.232.223.60
I wonder what the Merlin of TGS would think of this particular date, between its numerical form on the calendar and the opening of the "Omen" remake. (I suspect that if he'd ever watched the original "Omen", he must have thought uncomfortably "There but for the grace of God go I" while seeing Damien in action.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 6, 2006 9:03:23 am EDT from 4.245.17.22
Ed: Well, I'm waiting to hear whatever you might have to say about "Someone to Watch Over Me." But take your time.
Greg B: I still think there was sense of mutant superiority. Magneto did tell Pyro that he was a God among insects.
Harvester of Eyes
"Well, I'll just waltz on down to the 'Free Present Store!' You think I have money to buy all that?" -Santa Claus
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2006 6:00:31 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196
I still owe Lynati and Harvester and probably others replies from ages ago. Hope to get round to that someday. Nobody will remember what I'm referring to by that point, of course (except Spen, natch ;)), but...
Harvester: Actually, when I first pitched the whole Mary/Merlin sacrifice thing, the idea was that Arthur would have to go through with it, but the sword would magically pass through Mary without harming her. Todd's note was to go with the softer approach where he couldn't bring himself to kill her which obviously works better. Interesting review.
Ed
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2006 4:58:38 pm EDT from 213.187.39.126
Whenever I watch an X-man movie I end up having a Star Wars Prequel flashback. so I can't really say I enjoyed the movies to much.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2006 2:49:06 pm EDT from 69.54.209.84
Magneto vs. Xavier: I used to wonder if they didn't plan the whole thing out. Because, when you think about it, they both fill necessary roles. If their ultimate goal is peace between the humans and mutants, then they need an advocate for that peace. Xavier makes the obvious choice. Also, the "mutant superiority" movement would happen whether they like it or not. So maybe they decided that Magneto should lead it, so that the movement can be controled and shaped according to their design. Whether or not Magneto still follows that design would be debatable. I think probably not.
Greg: Apocolypse and Sinister may have had a rough begining, but Magneto was no different. Magneto was the very first villain, and at the time, he was the only one worth mentioning. Because he was the best at the time, he recieved the best characterization. But now, Apocolypse is considered to be a well rounded villain and has spawned several good storylines, like Age of Apocolypse.
<X-Men is not about cosmic entities, aliens, and ancient Egyptian all powerful beings> You're right it's not, but it is about the potential for Mankind, both human and mutant. The aliens, cosmic entities, and all powerful beings are just the vehicles to show that potential. Besides, it was the Fantastic Four who started the whole alien thing, X-men just borrowed them. Also, the pheonix only became a "cosmic entity" after a much heated debate and several staff changes. I rather like how the movie simplified it, I don't think they could have done otherwise in this case.
Mecord
"Grow those back." - Logan
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2006 12:36:24 pm EDT from 65.100.205.114
His line of reasoning was that a chance to ensure the safety of his people forever had just popped up, and it was a weapon that had almost been used to kill every mutant on the planet.
It's like dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We did it to save American lives, and it was the right thing to do.
Though, to be honest, I think Magneto expected the X-Men to stop it, it made a good distraction for him and Mystique to escape. And, well, if it did go through... horrible things happen in war.
Greg Bishansky
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2006 12:19:21 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45
Greg B: <There was a story published recently about Magneto tracking down two rednecks who brutally tortured and murdered a young mutant (ala Matthew Sheppard), and Magneto did to them what they did to the mutant.>
So I guess Magneto's line of reasoning when he reconfigured Cerebro to target all humans at the end of X2 was that the humans did it first?
Harvester of Eyes
"Well, I'll just waltz on down to the 'Free Present Store!' You think I have money to buy all that?" -Santa Claus
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2006 6:58:33 am EDT from 69.174.3.196
Magneto is not about genocide. Genocide has never been his goal. If he had to resort to it, he would (in a mutants or humans situation), but he's not some Hitler wannabe. The guy survived the Holocaust. He watched his family get killed simply for being Jewish. He's fighting to prevent a new Holocaust.
Magneto would rather the mutants become the new ruling class and let evolution quietly take it's course. He is not some mad dictator. He never wanted to be.
There is a key difference between Magneto and Demona. Demona, one can say, that a lot of what went wrong in her life was self inflicted. She did it to herself, through her paranoia and mistrust.
It is impossible to make that case for Magneto. He was a victim of the worst of humankind. He survived Auchwitz. It does not get much worse than that. And, it certainly was not his fault.
There was a story published recently about Magneto tracking down two rednecks who brutally tortured and murdered a young mutant (ala Matthew Sheppard), and Magneto did to them what they did to the mutant.
What it comes down to is that Magneto is very much an ends justify the means kinda guy. So am I. I can relate to him, and in every X-Men story, I root for him.
Peace would be nice, but why should Magneto have to make concessions, why should mutantkind need to register and be the victims of bigotry?
Magneto was proven right the day the first Sentinel rolled off the assembly line.
I am glad he was in all three movies. He is the best character in the X-Men mythos, and was wonderfully portrayed by the great Sir Ian McKellen.
Greg Bishansky
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Mon, Jun 5, 2006 12:13:53 am EDT from 68.199.4.45
Todd: There is a definite parallel between Xavier and Magneto and Goliath and Demona. But I think one way in which they're different is that I doubt there's any positive feelings lingering between Goliath and Demona. One of the things I did like about the most recent X-Men movie is that it hinted at the respect that Xavier and Magneto are still able to feel for each other. They were friends, and in certain ways, they still are. Their methods are just at opposite ends of the spectrum. In the end, what they both want is to preserve the future of mutantkind. Magneto, however, feels that the only way this is possible is if the humans are wiped out. I think it's ironic that his notions of human intolerance are no doubt based on his personal experiences during the Holocaust, and yet his views on mutant superiority are somewhat similar to Hitler's own idea of a master race.
Harvester of Eyes
"Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."
posted @ Sun, Jun 4, 2006 9:04:32 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196
HARVESTER - Thanks for your comments on "Carbonek Part Two". One or two comments.
The real credit for Griff's speech goes to Ed Reynolds, who came up with it (and with the notion of the London clan wanting to stay out of the battle). But I still remain fond of the notion of "Human problems become gargoyle problems". It was something that certainly happened often enough in the series; in fact, look at how often the gargoyle problems in the television episodes began as human problems. The Wyvern Massacre ultimately stems from a group of Vikings deciding to attack a human castle for plunder, even before they knew that there were gargoyles living there. The Hunters originated partly from a struggle over the succession to the Scottish throne; so did Princess Katharine and the eggs' flight to Avalon. And as for the Quarrymen, remember that the real issue with Castaway is his unacknowledged guilt over shooting his brother (not to mention the Illuminati's own schemes - and I suspect that their real goal in giving Castaway his funding has more to do with their interest in humans than their interest in gargoyles).
And, yes, I couldn't resist bringing Macbeth in to come to Arthur and Co.'s rescue. I'd felt for a while that he'd been underused in "Pendragon", and really wanted to see more of him - especially for what would turn out to be the series finale.
Glad that you also liked the way that Arthur's refusal to sacrifice Mary was handled, and the revelation of the Fisher King's identity as well. (Now that was one that I'd been planning ever since Season One, in fact. I knew from early on that Avallach wasn't dead.)
BISHANSKY - In all fairness to Xavier, his idea of attempting peace with the humans does make sense to me. While there are undoubtedly a number of humans out there (such as Stryker) who are simply beyond reason (and corrupted by problems of their own that ultimately don't have much to do with mutants), most of them, I believe, have reason for their fear towards mutants. Mutants have super-powers, that they could easily abuse if they wanted to. Just imagine how much damage the X-Men could cause if they were criminals out for money and power. A lot of the ordinary humans in the X-Men Universe, I believe, are simply genuinely concerned over what the mutants might do to them and their families - and Magneto's war isn't going to help convince them otherwise. A little restraint and reason could be invaluable to ensure that so many well-intentioned people won't decide, "Well, Stryker's a dangerous madman, but I'm so afraid of what out-of-control mutants might do to me and my family that I'd better support him as the lesser of two evils." Following Magneto's course of action would only convince those people that Stryker's right, that mutants are a threat, and that they have to stop them. (I feel the same way about the issue between Goliath and Demona, for that matter.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Jun 4, 2006 6:41:40 pm EDT from 4.244.18.56
I know I'm in the minority on this, but I think characters like Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister are really, really lame villains.
It took over a decade for either of them to be defined at all. Apocalypse was a great big powerful uber mutant who had this ill defined survival of the fittest thing going. Sinister, we didn't know what he was about for over a decade, then they connected him with Apocalypse, which came out of no where.
The problem was, they were both introduced as "mysterious" villains, and nothing was revealed about them, hints that went no where, it was dragged out, creative teams changed, new ideas were added, and what we got was a jumbled mess.
I think the X-Men films did the right thing by sticking with Magneto for all three films. He is a compelling character, and he's not wrong. In fact, I've often argued that Magneto is right and Xavier and his merry band of mutants are hippie morons.
And you know what, it has always made for fascinating debates on morality and ethics when one is discussing Xavier and Magneto. Personally, I think making nice with those who are trying to kill you is stupid at best. If I were a mutant, I'd join Magneto's Brotherhood before I joined the X-Men.
The comic is the comic. The movie is the movie. And let's face it, which comic are we talking about? There's the original comics which take place in what has been called the 616 Universe, and then there are the new Ultimate comics, which have the luxery of picking and choosing from 40 years of very convoluted and often retconned history for a cleaner story.
I am also glad the Shi'ar were kept away from the movies. These movies needed to be about mutants, not aliens, cosmic beings and magical crystals... hence why Juggernaut being a mutant did not bother me, though I know it did bother some other people. Juggernaut was basically, Ultimate Juggernaut. And that's fine. The movie was not about him.
It's not the comic book, and that's more than fine. Do I prefer the comic overall? Of course I do. But, I love the way the movie handled some things, and let's face it, it wouldn't be a bad thing if the comic book was less convoluted.
I mean, how many times have characters died and come back to life? I know Magneto has several times... in the last few years.
Magneto: Died when Asteroid M blew up... came back.
- Had his mind erased by Xavier after tearing the adamantium from Logan.
- Appeared as a young man, turned out to be a clone
- Real Magneto returned, no explanation for why he's no longer a vegetable. Becomes ruler of Genosha.
Gets stabbed by Wolverine and dies
- We see him in a wheel chair in a building when a Sentinel falls on it, and he dies.
- Infiltrates the school as Xorn, destroys it, destroys Manhattan, gets himself hopped up on drugs and gets hid head chopped off by Logan.
- Turns out that was not the real Magneto, it was Xorn's twin brother, possessed by Sublime altered by the Scarlet Witch pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn. Real Magneto was on Genosha sipping tea with Charles.
- Magneto loses his powers as a result of the House of M.
- Magneto is regaining his powers in next issue of New Avengers.
........
Now, doesn't that sound like a mess? And that's just Magneto, who I said was one of the more grounded characters. Apocalypse and Sinister are even more of a mess.
So, yeah, keep the big, convoluted "OMG! KEWL MYSTERIOUS!" characters away from the movies. The long dragged out, often changing the mind mystery didn't make them cool, it made them dull.
Which is why I thought Colonal Stryker was a great choice for the villain in X2. He represented what the worst of human kind would do to mutants. He was the face of human bigotry. Which is really what these movies, and what X-Men are about. Mutants and humans. Bigotry, tolerance and understanding.
X-Men is not about cosmic entities, aliens, and ancient Egyptian all powerful beings.
Of course that's just my opinion.
Greg Bishansky
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sun, Jun 4, 2006 4:17:53 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45
Well, I stopped reading the X Titles a long time ago, right after Stryfe's Legacy Virus was introduced. So I didn't recognize too too many of the mutants who made cameos. I was, however, surprised to see Madrox as a villain.
Personally, one of the things I liked about Singer's directing style was the way that he only hinted at the vastness of the mutant population. In X2, we get a brief glimpse of the list that Stryker has on file. Fans will recognize some of the names on there, including Remy LeBeau (Gambit). I think that's cooler than Gambit physically appearing in the movie for 30 seconds.
And now a few comments on "Carbonek, Part Two," which I just finished:
I predicted a few things in this. First, Griff using Goliath's argument from "MIA" when he hears that a majority of the clan is considering the Grail Quest a human problem. But fortunately, that didn't detract from his speech at all. In the same manner, I also predicted that Tanaburs never meant for Arthur to kill Mary. But again, that didn't make the scene (and the action leading up to it) any less emotionally stirring.
And it was nice to see Macbeth. I like the character, so naturally, I like it whenever he finds an excuse to make an appearance. I hope that in the canonical Gargoyles universe, Greg finds a way to expand on what we saw Macbeth doing in "The Journey."
And then, the ending. Suddenly, Isfet's interest in Carbonek Castle becomes a little clearer. Merlin meets his grand-dad. I can't wait to see how this gets explained.
Harvester of Eyes
"Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."
posted @ Sun, Jun 4, 2006 1:09:58 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196
Woooooo I just noticed that it saves my color and image settings...neato!
Ok to the X-MEN: ***SPOILERS**************
Lynati: <movie is what it is/fanfic/alternate universe> I agree on this one. I just watched the other two and took them at face value. There are like 40 years of plot to go with and even the old plots today are getting new twists. I know there are hardcore fans out there that want this movie BY THE BOOK! and no other would suffice. It was part of the discussion when the first one came out. And back then the director said that they had to juggle the appetite of the hardcores with the naivete of newcomers, the people that just wanna go see a good action flick. So I was cool. But this time..Maybe it was the lack of Bryan Singer, but there were nuances left out that could have easily just acted like fan treats.
For example: The accents. Colossus is not Russian this time around..and after the first one Storm is American too. (Well, Halle Berry's accent the first time was goofy, so it kinda made sense to drop that but still). They wouldn't have really needed to explain the back story of why Colossus speaks with an accent because you'd think well DUH he's not from the US. Kinda the same if you just jump in the comics, say today. In the speech bubbles they'll throw in little lines of Russian or someone will make some comment or something...and you can figure out Colossus's back story later. In fact its a little something to entice you to go back and read his story. Loosing the accents made them kinda flat.
As for the Brotherhood, ok..we had Callisto. But I had to look on Wikipedia to figure out who the hell she was supposed to be...They should have mentioned her name like once...but then, when it made sense, it was kinda a funny nudge to see her fighting Storm so much. To the newbie movie fan, she has a grudge against Storm, but to the older fan, its a nudge to the comic, cool.
Then we have Arclight. I had no clue who that was until wikipedia, then I realized that she's now one of the 198..ok..(still kinda creepy actress tho).
Then we have.. Psylocke?? It was like the Brotherhood needed mutants to play it out on screen but then it felt like the director or whoever went through and just picked out whoever they thought was neat, figured this was the last movie (even though they left the door open) and smooshed them all into the Brotherhood, not so much continuity be damned but characterization be damned. They had Spike from Evolution! (His scene was cool, but too simplified and therefore went on too long, what were those other guys doing? Who were they?) It was cool that Quill was there, as he is a relatively new character. And even then, we have characters pulled out of the woodwork, but no fireworks from Jubilee?
I heard some remarks of spinoffs, and if they would have added just the nuances to the characters, like accents and stuff, then they would have SOOO many to pick from. But no.
I dunno there were some parts that just went against the characters. Yeah, I don't like Scott, but him dying? Up until this whole White Queen mess, it was like him and Jean for eternity. It was a sucky way to wrap up that love triangle, IMO.
I mean, I liked the way it was produced. The FX were neat! and they were all blended together and nothing looked stupid (Warren's wings sooo could have gone south if done the wrong way but they looked well, like actually attached.) And the whole 20 years ago scene rocked too (Patrick Stewart said if they wanted to do a prequel that way he was up for it).
BTW I also figured out immediately after the "death" of Prof.X that he wasn't out. I dunno, it was a bit too obvious, you don't just KILL PROFESSOR X!!
Harvester:<It also felt to me like Brett Ratner was trying to cram too much onto the plate> Yup, with also the whole thumbing his nose at what Singer had done, like this is MY movie and the LAST ONE, so I'm gonna do whatever the hell I please. And as for the wrapping up on this one, I dunno if it was too quickly or not, but it seemed to _easy_. Convenient. And, with Magneto depowered, wouldn't the bridge have collapsed under its own weight in the middle (without its supports still on the bed of the former position) and just went crash! into the bay? Convenient it stayed put! And wow all those soldiers and people sure got the hell outta there fast when Jean started disintegrating them! That was some easy rubble to climb through!
Apocalypse would have been a WONDERFUL set up now that I think of it! I really wish they woulda hinted that, like the Phoenix of last time or something. The X-Men in some way or another have reflected the times, and the issues of the times. Mostly through discrimination and how people deal with it. Between immigration, gay rights and the war on terror, there's a lot of sheer "not liking people because they're not us" or us v. them going on. I mean, imagine if Apocalypse decided to screw us all in real life, because of issues we have? It's just a good place to make a platform of sorts, because of the way the book has handled current events. And not a preachy form, or to take a side, but to just show both sides and let the audience figure it out. Its a good place to make people think and draw their own conclusions. well, imo.
Lastly, about trailers: BIG FREAKIN SURPRISE JEAN WAS ALIVE. It was just a matter of when she would show up. They really dropped the ball by teasing that she was marching with the Brotherhood and all that. That would have made a few things a world better.
To sum up: well made, horribly scattered.
****END SPOILER*****
Hey, when is the Garg book out, anyway? I've told my local place to stock it! But they've got more advertising for the Halo book....
Dezi
Lego!
posted @ Sun, Jun 4, 2006 12:42:37 pm EDT from 68.58.30.120
Lynati: It's true that Marvel has a precedent for recreating the universe whenever they enter a new medium. Therefore a lot can be forgiven on that account. I’m simply bemoaning that they have all this potential that they never utilize. Plus there are always the obvious Hollywood politics to consider, like how Wolverine seems to take over the X-men. It can’t be argued that Logan is the star of all three movies. And of course, now that Halle Berry is on the up and up they needed to enlarge her role. At least there is precedent for Storm to step up and lead the X-men, but even then it felt like Logan was still in charge.
I’m not saying this is bad. Hugh Jackman is perfect for the role, and I’m glad to hear they are considering a Wolverine movie. Besides, everybody loves Wolverine and I have learned to live with that. Personally, I’m a big fan of Gambit and Jubilee. Gambit I love because of all the character conflicts he brought with him. He tends to make things interesting. I like Jubilee because of all the potential and because I find her character interesting. Of course now that we’ve both mentioned Jubilee I have to admit to being very frustrated with how they’ve treated the character. She has the most continuity problems of any other character out there. They set her up as a 15 year old girl who would eventually become a life long member of the team. Even Bishop knew her and showed her due respect. Nowadays she’s been dropped to a minor character who is around 14 years old and has even lost her powers. The poor girl will never learn how to drive.
Well, if you haven’t noticed I’m a long time fan of the X-men. I suppose I’m posting all this because for me it has the same attraction as Gargoyles and TGS. I want the movies to do justice for the X-men. I think they’ve done a good job, but I think they could have done better. I think TGS exists for similar reasons. There is still unused potential in the Gargoyles universe, and we are trying to do it justice.
There may have been a point to all this, but I’m afraid that I’m rambling now. Lack of sleep does that to me. So I’m going to go down some more caffeine.
Mecord
"Grow those back." - Logan
posted @ Sat, Jun 3, 2006 7:20:52 am EDT from 65.100.205.114
One could also argue that the things - characters and histories- that we missed in X3 were simply not part of the story they wanted to tell. I'd like to see how they would have explained Shadowcat's and Angel's backstory too, but it frankly was not relevant to the arc they were attempting to explore. I think they managed to pare down their cast in a believable way to those they wanted to keep focus on. Scott's not in it because of what happens, and Rogue is off cure-hunting. The first two movies had plenty of screentime for them, and the third would have felt awkward without them playing large roles had they not had sensible- if disagreeable to some of us- reasons for why they were not this time.
For adapting a plot-line and some characters that canonically (as much as marvel has canon with its multiple realities) were alien forces into a world where they were not alien forces, I thought they did a good job. I learned to deal with Rogue playing a role I thought of as Jubilee's (and people who came in on the comic and not the 1992 show thought of as Kitty's) and after that, after accepting that this was an alternate universe- "a rather ballsy fanfic movie" as someone else put it- the other details didn't bother me so much. It's about the only genre where you can do that, thanks to their own continuity reboots, What If, and the worlds seen in Exiles. Maybe in this world Caine Marko was simply born a mutant, and his father never married Xavier's mom. (or whichever way it way.) I don't think I'd buy the "corruption" of any other series, but with Marvel's precedent (and the fanfic precedent) it worked for me. This was just another window into another world, another way things could have gone.
Lynati
posted @ Sat, Jun 3, 2006 5:03:44 am EDT from 69.150.74.197
*Warning. Possible X3 Spoilers*
Ah, well. I never liked Cyclops anyway. Liked him even less in these movies. Even the actor pissed me off. But at least with each new movie, his part got smaller and smaller.
Mecord: It's funny you mentioned Apocalypse. We have the character of the Angel now (who I agree wasn't utilized enough in this movie), and I always felt that in the comics, he became more interesting after he was altered by Apocalypse and became Archangel. They're definitely cheating themselves out of a good future storyline by limiting themselves to Magneto. Although I do like the idea that Worthington's "cure" turns out to be faulty. I'm not saying mutation is a disease, but it is something that, like the makeup of all life, originates in DNA. As someone who has a genetic disease, I know that these things are practically impossible to permanently cure. DNA is a very tricky molecule. It mutates on extremely microscopic levels as it replicates, one nucleotide at a time. So the fact that the cure was faulty didn't feel like a cheat, but I do agree that another evil mastermind would be nice.
Did anyone else feel that the movie seemed to wrap up a little too quickly? I don't know whether I'm glad or upset that we didn't have a scene between Warren and his father.
It also felt to me like Brett Ratner was trying to cram too much onto the plate. I know that there are a significant amount of characters in the various X titles, but I think Bryan Singer was at least able to handle that more subtly and gracefully than Ratner did. Far too many plot points for a running time of 1 hour and 50 minutes.
And wow. They actually had the guts to slip in "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch." I don't know whether or not to feel insulted by that.
Overall, I'm not sure I'd say that I liked this better than X2, but I did like it better than the first one. It had its snares, but overall it was good. On a scale of 1 to 5, I'd say 3 1/2.
Harvester of Eyes
"The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"
posted @ Fri, Jun 2, 2006 11:53:43 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196
Riddle:
I left a regular package at the post office Monday night, leaving Conway, AR to head to Honolulu, HI.
Today, at home in Conway, AR, I left the same size package in my mailbox to head to Little Rock, AR.
Which package will get there first? Here's a hint: the 1st package hadn't arrived at its destination yet and both are Netflix returns.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Jun 2, 2006 7:17:43 pm EDT from 63.232.249.126
Lady Mystic - <I received your email, and will contact you soon.> Did you ever send me that email? Just checking to make sure it didn't get lost.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Jun 2, 2006 11:14:45 am EDT from 63.232.250.250
Vinnie: Too true. They fell prey to the same mistake that killed Batman (well, one of them); they took a host of storylines, several badguys, and a small army of main characters, then tried to cram them all into a movie.
I say that if they are going to explore recognisable characters and story lines that they should focus on as few as possible. With fewer elements, the movie can get more in-depth, and for me at least, more interesting. Take Shadowcat, for instance. The movies offer no background, and no explaination as to why she is part of the x-men now, as opposed to any of the other kids at the mansion. She would have been more interesting if we knew more about her.
Mecord
"Grow those back." - Logan
posted @ Thu, Jun 1, 2006 7:50:41 pm EDT from 71.35.244.231
Just to add to the X-Man Spoiler disscussion. I think the directors were just trying to simplify an overly convoluted storyline. While failing badly! At least they didn't hook Cyclops up with Emma Frost.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Thu, Jun 1, 2006 5:11:39 pm EDT from 69.54.209.44
Speaking of X-men, I thought that I would post my review, just in case anyone hasn't seen it yet.
***Warning X-men Spoilers***
The plot is a mixture of several classical storylines. The possibility of a mutant "cure" takes the top of the list. This of course involves "Angel," Warren Worthinton, and Rouge. Unfortunately, both of these characters take very minor roles in this movie. I was dissapointed in Angel's role, since he is an interesting character in the movie and they don't do much of anything with him. The other prominent story line is the dark pheonix. I had mixed feelings about that story. One, it is one of the most popular X-men stories, therefore, the most overdone storyline. However, they do manage to add a few new twists. The first thing that Pheonix does is kill Scott. This leaves all the heartfelt appeals to pheonix's good side to Logan. Naturally Logan sucks at this and Pheonix joins Magneto. Unfortunately, despite the new material and a couple of alternate endings they could have gone with, they predictably end the story by killing Jean. Personally, I'm tired of seeing Jean getting killed. In the comics it happens at least once a decade. They killed her in the cartoon too, and now the movie. The only character I know off-hand to have died more in the comics is Magneto, and they both keep coming back.
The Magneto story line gets a little old in this movie. He's up to his same old bag of tricks and this time he has an army of mutants. Fans of the comics will recognise a few morlocks and a couple of other classic characters like Multiple Man and Juggernaut. The latter of which is a mutant and apparently not Xavier's step-brother, much to my dissapointment. While these cameos are fun, they serve no real purpose and frustrate the long time fans because of things like, Juggernaut hates being called a mutant and would not join Magneto without a better reason.
Basically, they try to do too much in this movie and botch some of the smaller stuff. However, there are plenty of good things to compensate. Beast is great. In some ways he steals the show, and he kicks butt. We also finally get to see Iceman turn to ice. Kitty Pride also joins the X-men in this one, and we get a classic scene of her running through walls while being chased by the Juggernaut, who crashes through the walls.
By far, the most unfortunate aspect of the movie, is that it is too short and ends with too much closure. Of course it ends with the possibility of Magneto's return, but like I said earlier, that's getting old. They could have left more room for a sequal by adding some of the aspects of their multiple storylines, like the Shii'ar (sp?) or how the "cure" is a precurser to Apocolypse. But Since they seem determined to keep Magneto as the only enemy to the X-men, I'm having serious doubts about the possibility of a fourth movie.
The bottom line is, despite the minor hang-ups, the movie still rocks.
Oh, and Professor Dumbledore dies... I mean Professor X. Only he doesn't really; he comes back. But you have to wait untill after the credits to find out how.
Final tally: two resurections, two confirmed X-men dead, one supposedly (most likely) dead.
***End of Spoilers***
Mecord
"Grow those back." - Logan
posted @ Tue, May 30, 2006 1:41:44 pm EDT from 71.35.244.231
With the third X-Men movie having just come out, I thought that I might bring up one of my bad creativity demons about the X-Men in general:
An anti-mutant mob heads for the Xavier Institute with the intent of tearing it down and slaughtering all the mutants in it. Professor Xavier tells the X-Men not to interfere, since he wants to solve this problem peacefully, then wheels out to meet the mob and tries reasoning with it. In the course of his speech, he mentions that killing all the mutants wouldn't even solve the problem since it wouldn't change the very thing that's causing them: the genetic changes that have taken place in humanity due to its exposure to various technological developments in the last century or so. The people in the mob mull it over, then say, "Hey, he's right!" They turn around and head away from the Institute, then start attacking and tearing down every research lab and scientific institute in the county, shouting "Contaminate our DNA, will you?" Xavier shakes his head sadly, commenting, "This is not what I had in mind."
It's this kind of thing that explains why I'm not being asked to write for Marvel Comics.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, May 29, 2006 7:09:34 pm EDT from 4.245.18.101
Lady Mystic - well, you might have noticed a couple of changes in the pages that I gave you links to. I added a bunch of important stuff to those pages.
As promised, a couple of top 10 Breakdowns.
In reverse order, the people who wrote/cowrote the most number of outlines for tgs are
10. Patrick Toman - 14 outlines
2 way tie for 8th and 9th: Stephen R. Sobotka and Christi Smith 'Spike' Hayden - 16 outlines
2 way tie for 6th and 7th: Brian 'DumlaoX' Dumlao and Joshua 'Nicodemus' Whalen - 18 outlines
5th: group effort - 21 outlines
4th: Rahsaan 'Taleweaver' Footman - 26 outlines
3rd: Jonathan 'Entity' Cotleur - 3o outlines
2nd: Kathy Pogge - 46 outlines
1st: Todd Jensen - 71 outlines
*stops to give these 10 names a round of applause in recognition of their hard work in the past*
On average, each outline had 1.52 people working on it.
In reverse order, the people who wrote/cowrote the most number of stories for tgs are
3 way tie for 8th, 9th, and 10th: Batya 'The Toon' Levin, Brian 'DumlaoX' Dumlao, and Stephen R. Sobotka - 12 stories
2 way tie for 6th and 7th: Jonathan 'Entity' Cotleur and Patrick Toman - 14 stories
5th: Alan 'Ordell' Waltrip - 21 stories
2 way for 3rd and 4th: Rahsaan 'Taleweaver' Footman and Christi Smith 'Spike' Hayden - 22 stories
2nd: Kathy Pogge - 31 stories
1st: Todd Jensen - 70 stories
*stops to give these 10 names a round of applause in recognition of their hard work in the past*
On average, each story had 1.65 writers.
Attention former members of tgs and others who contributed to tgs: We are in the process of updating our information. If you wish to change the user name associated with outlines/artwork/stories that you contributed to, please email tgs_info at yahoo dot com with that updated information. Also, if you have listed both a real name and nickname on credits and have a preference for one or the other being displayed only, please email tgs_info at yahoo dot com.
Lady Mystic - one request: make a special notation about this week's cr: it's the 1st time that these kind of statistics on tgs has been published.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, May 29, 2006 4:16:23 am EDT from 63.232.248.20
***** TGS CR INFORMATION ANNOUNCEMENTS *****
CR IMAGES:
Thank you, Spen, for pointing out the inaccurate name of the Morgana/Mary Sefton image in the New Images section. I have made the necessary corrections, and the name of the image is now "Mary Sefton in Medieval Attire." (I think what confused me when I was naming the file was the name of the artist of the original illustration.)
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/other/new/
Todd: You're welcome.
BETA DESIGN:
No opinions or suggestions on the prospective design? Please let me know what you think so that changes (or lack thereof) can be made before implementation. If I don't receive any feedback, I'll assume opinions are neutral and will implement the design after some additional modifications.
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/other/beta/
DPH: I received your email, and will contact you soon.
***** END ANNOUNCEMENTS *****
Lady Mystic
Admin of TGS CR Information
posted @ Mon, May 29, 2006 2:30:45 am EDT from 68.248.89.120
Thanks for the name changes, Lady Mystic.
SPEN - You're right (I just checked it). Kind of ironic, too, given what Mary thinks of Morgana. She certainly wouldn't appreciate that level of confusion!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, May 28, 2006 10:41:24 pm EDT from 4.245.23.117
The first tropical storm of the season, daaaaw...
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/
Lurking Fish
posted @ Sun, May 28, 2006 10:13:22 pm EDT from 205.250.215.79
Lynati : Actually, I knew about the room being wiped every two weeks. My comment meant that I had only just noticed that it had been three weeks since the last wipe.
Dezi, Yggdrasil and Josh : Welome back!
Lady Mystic : Since apperantly image titles actually can be changed, I thought I'd mention that in the new images section, the picture titled 'Morgana' is actually Mary Sefton in medival attire.
Spen
posted @ Sun, May 28, 2006 9:19:22 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208
Spen - I'll be posting the answers to those trivia bits as well as more tgs trivia on Monday.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, May 27, 2006 3:57:41 pm EDT from 63.232.250.147
DPH : I'd say Todd wrote or co-wrote the most eps, but I could be wrong about that.
Spen
posted @ Sat, May 27, 2006 1:27:40 am EDT from 216.248.119.208
Hi Lynati!
I've (obviously) been lurking lately. Sorry not to much for conversing about statistics. :) Anyways, I do like the way the links at the top (under the logo) go to different colors. Simply, its just pretty! now...if we only had a good story to read...hehehehe.
Dezi
posted @ Sat, May 27, 2006 12:36:40 am EDT from 69.136.164.244
From the bureau of tgs statistics comes a challenge for people who aren't part of tgs staff right now:
1)Which person wrote/cowrote the most number of outlines? Which person came in 2nd? Finish this list through the top 10?
2)Which person wrote/cowrote the most number of stories? Which person came in 2nd? Finish this list through the top 10?
Sorry, no prizes, and I'm counting stories that have been released. I'm curious if public perception and reality are close.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, May 26, 2006 11:20:39 pm EDT from 63.232.251.87
Lady Mystic - I'm sending you an email about that matter.
dph_of_rulesk
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, May 26, 2006 4:19:19 pm EDT from 63.232.249.50
Todd: Sorry about that. Thank you for the information. I'll email Gorebash with the necessary changes for the Add Comment page, and update the CR Information Images pages as well.
Lady Mystic
Admin of TGS CR Information
posted @ Fri, May 26, 2006 3:42:19 pm EDT from 68.248.89.120
Todd : If I recall correctly, it's impossible to make any changes to image names.
Spen
posted @ Fri, May 26, 2006 3:38:34 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208
Speaking of images, I'd like to point out a few corrections that I believe need to be made to the image list:
1. In the image list in the "add comment" page, Caspian and Gruoch's names are misspelled as "Caspoan" and "Grouch".
2. One of the images is entitled "Firedrake and Sir le Breuse". The name ought to be "Sir Severause" or "Sir Severause le Breuse", not "Sir le Breuse".
3. The "Morrigan and crow" image is misidentified; the character in it is Morgana rather than the Morrigan.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, May 26, 2006 7:31:15 am EDT from 4.244.212.149
Josh: <<Wow, the new add comment page looks so much nicer on a mac now than it used to. Way to go!>>
Thank you! I provided the design, while Gorebash implemented the files and added the Signature and security code features.
Makhasu: <<I make fairly professional avatars...>>
Everyone and anyone is welcome to submit artwork featured TGS or canon-Gargoyles characters. Please visit the following URL or my name link to view submission guidelines. You may also submit or fulfill requests for CR features.
http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/requests.html
<<Oops. Disregard my offer to make avatars. I just read the info and rules about the comment room. Sorry.>>
That's all right. Thanks for reading the CR Information and CR Rules.
Lady Mystic
Admin of TGS CR Information
posted @ Fri, May 26, 2006 3:17:50 am EDT from 68.248.89.120
***** TGS CR INFORMATION UPDATE *****
CR ARCHIVE:
The 2006 TGS CR Archive has been updated to include the "week" of May 1, 2006 through May 23, 2006, for a total of 1 newly added file.
2006 Archive:
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/archive/2006/
NEW WEBSITE DESIGN BETA:
I have created a new website design (utilizing PHP and more standardized CSS) for either the whole TGS website (if many of you, especially TGS staffers) like the new design, or else only for the CR Information section. You may view the beta via the following URL. I went for a slightly minimalist design (graphics-wise) for quick load time, and chose a non-character specific design so as not to favor any particular character or TGS series. Please keep in mind that I'm still tweaking the design. I'm open to suggestions; so please provide feedback! :)
(Note: Only the TGS main page, CR Info index page, and CR rules page are currently available in this beta design.)
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/other/beta/index.php
CR IMAGES:
Due to the recent update of this forum, the CR Images section was revised to reflect the newly available CR pics. The Waiting Images list was removed since the images from that list have become available for use.
>> http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/images/
CR RULES:
The update of the CR also called for a slight revision of the Rules page. Links to the other TGS CR staff images (TGS Episode Premiere, TGS Staff Member, and TGS Website News) was appended to Rule #1. The second sentence under Consequences was revised to reflect the navigational link to the Rules page now available on both main CR page and the Add Comment page.
http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/cr/rules.html
***** END UPDATE *****
Lady Mystic
Admin of TGS CR Information
posted @ Fri, May 26, 2006 3:08:24 am EDT from 68.248.89.120
Wow, the new add comment page looks so much nicer on a mac now than it used to. Way to go!
Anyway, I will not be gracing you all with my presence at Gathering this year. I know you are all crushed, especially Spacebabie. Let me know the next time it'll be in LA (or approximate urban sprawl).
Josh
No bastard ever won a war dying for his country. You win a war by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country. - General George S. Patton
posted @ Thu, May 25, 2006 9:29:37 pm EDT from 69.106.237.41
Yggdrasil: Spiff. I hope you can make it.
Lynati
posted @ Thu, May 25, 2006 5:58:31 pm EDT from 70.104.20.101
Guess that leaves 10 for me -- if this didnt take too long with all the new fields
silvadel - [silvadel@gmail.com]
posted @ Wed, May 24, 2006 11:09:48 pm EDT from 24.149.178.180
I claim 9th, more in order to nudge the Top Ten along towards completion than anything else.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, May 24, 2006 6:12:07 pm EDT from 4.245.19.84
Greetings;
I claim 8th. There is a faint possiblity that I may be able to attend the gathering this year, however I will not know for sure until...oh about two days ahead of time. I have another conference (one relating to my research) in CA and I may be able to wriggle free early.
Yggdrasil - [eng050599@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, May 24, 2006 5:52:26 pm EDT from 72.140.112.237
I claim seven.
Starsinger
posted @ Wed, May 24, 2006 7:28:38 am EDT from 209.240.205.62
SO, when lain said she had wiped the room earlier, she meant "just wiped the room".
Sixth.
Hi Dezi!
Lynati
posted @ Wed, May 24, 2006 1:28:53 am EDT from 70.104.20.101
Fifth!
Spen
posted @ Tue, May 23, 2006 11:08:52 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208
Four!! Ooooo new comment thingie....
Dezi
Lego!
posted @ Tue, May 23, 2006 10:53:00 pm EDT from 69.136.164.17
What the hell? I mean, um third. Wow. For some reason, I always seem to claim the number of Pfhor eyes.
Harvester of Eyes
"The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"
posted @ Tue, May 23, 2006 10:31:23 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196
2nd!!
dph_of_rulesk
Whatever happenned to simplicity? Looking for a roommate for the gathering.
posted @ Tue, May 23, 2006 9:43:21 pm EDT from 63.232.223.157
First!
Mecord
posted @ Tue, May 23, 2006 8:46:28 pm EDT from 65.100.214.102